042 - Shifting Your Networking Mindset: Cultivating Authentic Relationships

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Hi, I'm Annette Richman.
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Can you just share a little bit about kind of how you define networking?
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Oh yeah, oh yeah, I literally have a point here.
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I made notes for you, annette.
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Oh okay, my first point here literally says definition of networking old versus new.
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That's literally how I wanted to start old versus new.
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That's literally how I wanted to start.
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And just to add to what you said earlier, I mean I work with senior level.
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You know C-suite clients who are going through a career transition and the idea of networking gives them the heebie-jeebies.
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So, honestly, this is this definition that I'm about to share.
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It's got to go, it's got to go, it's got to go.
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The definition I got when I Googled it this morning was in the Oxford English Dictionary and it says, and I quote the action or process of interacting with others to exchange information and develop professional or social contacts.
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Now, I think that this is the way things were done for a very long time you know 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, for the most part 2020, especially with COVID being the accelerator for people wanting something else.
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It has changed and I always looked at networking differently.
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I never liked the word networking and I got to tell you, I started my career in software recruitment and for me, the word networking didn't mean what it means in the social context.
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For me it was about Cisco routers.
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Networking as a term for me belongs there, not between humans, because we're not, you know, nodes, we are not programs, we're not physical things connecting computers.
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So the best definition that I have seen, and I love this and I vouch for this we were chatting backstage about, you know, g.
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I know I think I mentioned it now G capital, so it's interesting.
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So, jack Welch he passed a couple of years ago.
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So his, his latest wife, right?
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So she, susie Welch I love this.
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Couple of years ago.
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So his, his latest wife, right?
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So she, susie Welch, I love this definition.
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She wrote an article on CNBC back in 2019.
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And she says don't bother networking, don't bother Make friends instead, because human beings help friends, they don't help contacts.
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And I think we also need to read, we need to revisit the definition of friends.
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They don't help contacts, and I think we also need to read, we need to revisit the definition of friends.
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We have friends which are our close circle of friends.
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That doesn't mean every single person belongs in that close circle, right, you have acquaintances that you know, but then you've got people in the middle and what's happened is very interesting because of COVID and I'm going to talk about that.
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I talk about that in a minute.
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I don't want to get ahead of myself.
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So, yes, so this is how I would define networking Make friends and stay in touch.
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That's it.
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Yeah, you know, I love that and I think of it too.
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As you know, if I'm looking for a new vet, where do I go?
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I go to my friends and ask.
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And go to my friends and ask, and that's you know, and, and so that's like that's what I think of, which is kind of that definition of just friends, and if you, you know, you, you can exchange things and and sometimes it's the last time, like we refinanced our home, we did it through someone that I'd known for 10 years and it just happened like, oh, I know so-and-so, and it's just those you know.
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But but I love too and I think that about LinkedIn, people think of it as on, you know, making my connections and you're really meeting other humans.
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I, my sink is broken and I mean I need a plumber.
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I'm going to speak to a friend of mine.
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I'm not networking with her, I'm asking her for help and she's helping me out, right?
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Yeah, the same thing works in the professional sphere.
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Exactly what you said LinkedIn gets a bad rap simply for the purpose of the way some marketeers approach it and they sell that and they actually make a lot of money selling that.
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So people think, oh, that must be true then, and it isn't Not for those who are interested in the long game.
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So I was talking about friends, connections, and I was talking about acquaintances.
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You know, it's very interesting with LinkedIn.
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It's somewhere in the middle because I met so many people through LinkedIn.
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They've come on my show, they've come on my podcast.
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I don't think of them as acquaintances because you know we will talk on the show or off the show.
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We'll talk about things that are going on in their lives.
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You know a child who's very ill, or they're going through a divorce.
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You, you don't share that with an acquaintance.
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So I mean I tell my husband all the time so I have this friend in chicago.
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He's like how many friends I'm have you even met her?
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I'm like, no, I haven't physically, I haven't physically met her, but where does it say that I have to have physically met her to have you know?
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And these are people who refer you know, like with you, I'm sure, refer clients all the time like I know someone, uh, you're looking for something in this particular area.
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I think you should speak with her.
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And Jay says you know references, referrals.
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But it isn't coming from that intention.
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It's about just making friends and staying in touch.
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It's not because I need something from you, because when that other person can smell that from a mile away, you've lost before you even entered the room.
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Oh, let's get into some of those big networking moves.
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So I know you have some things to share, so I think yeah yeah, I think the first one is the I mean, let's not make it hard, let's not make it complicated, because when we hear a big bowl we think it's scary.
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It's probably not for me, right.
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And particularly introvert.
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The introverts in the room tend to withdraw, and something interesting happened during COVID.
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I became quite quiet, I became quite withdrawn.
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I started a podcast.
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I was listening more than I was speaking.
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So the classic definition I don't like stereotypes introvert, extrovert, who knows?
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Ambivert, wherever you think you are in that spectrum.
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The first thing I want to share is every single time you meet a human being, even a dog or a cat, because they have owners, right, they have a family, they belong Every single time is an opportunity.
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If you go to work physically whether it's in the car, on the bus, you know, in the tram, in the cafeteria so many opportunities.
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They're around us, you don't have to look for them, you're surrounded by people and as social beings, we need people.
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So opportunities are every and I'm going to give tips on how we go about it.
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But I'm just like I want us to kind of re-remember this, because it's like a dentist office and I'm going to talk about that hairdresser oh what?
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So for people, yeah, but for people who are going to a physical space, it is extremely.
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It is so much easier now for those who work from home one thing that is in your favor and you have it at the.
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You know, at the tip is your phone, so social media is your savior, however.
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However, it's like I think of it as a hop on, hop off.
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You know those buses in london and you know they're like hop on and then hop off.
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Social media should be like a get on and get off type of thing, which means interact with each other, have fun with each other and then get off of social media and get on, zoom together if you're in two different cities or two different countries, because the intimacy and the connection is different and it's not like, oh, I need something, so let me have a zoom with her.
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Sure you can share your problems because you've already been interacting so much and I have.
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I consider these people are my friends, like when I was ill and I was in hospital.
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They were so you know, kevin or or g, they're sending me flowers.
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They knew more about what was happening in my world than my own school friends who live in a different city.
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So the point is take those connections off of linkedin or whichever social media you have, and serendipity, which is like where, when, how, it will happen when your eyes are open, when your eyes are open and you're willing to just look and not maybe walk, for example, walk with your phone.
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I'm not being judgmental, because I'm on my phone and I'm working on my phone, but it's amazing how many things you see when you are in public spaces.
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So that is the first thing and I also want to share just be you, nothing is wrong with you, no need to fix yourself.
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Okay, if you're like I don't like this, I don't like, do what feels natural to you.
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Slightly uncomfortable is a good thing because you're growing, but it's amazing.
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So for some people rich white dudes, it's the golf links and that's great.
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For somebody else it could be the the dog agrees with me.
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It could be like I was.
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I was at the hairdresser and, uh, and this lady was talking and I was like, oh, interesting, and so what do you do?
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And I ended up like getting a client and it was just and this comes to another point um, when I say just be, just tap into your strengths that you already have.
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You do not have to pretend or you know, take it up a notch and then come home really tired, because it completely took all the energy out of you.
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I remember, because my hairdresser is Turkish and she doesn't speak a lot of English, so it's French and I speak French with her.
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And every time she has someone and they're, you know, they're chatting next door and I'm like oh, what do you do?
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Et cetera, et cetera.
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Like, oh, your husband's an Exxon Mobil.
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Oh, I see.
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So you're an expatriated wife.
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How are you doing?
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Oh, you're Belgian, you've never lived in Belgium, how?
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And that lady?
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Uh, my hairdresser told me you're really good at this.
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And my kids were with me and they were so embarrassed they were like stop talking, why can't you just be quiet?
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You know, one is a teenager and one is a preteen.
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And he's like oh, my god, my like, you know you're.
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You think you're like a social media influencer?
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I'm actually not, not at all.
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I just enjoy talking to random strangers.
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And that serendipity thing is like oh, I know, I met this person and she's looking for a house, she's looking for a job.
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I know, on so-and-so at PNG, random Comes from nowhere and it came naturally to me.
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Somebody else didn't like it, a stranger.
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My hairdresser acknowledged it.
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So it's like oh, I never realized it actually.
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I'm like oh, that's interesting.
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You know, I'm laughing hysterically because I am like that and my husband gets embarrassed.
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I'm talking to people, I'm at Trader Joe's shopping and I'm like, and I'm looking and I'm like and I'm talking to people, oh, if I see something in somebody's cart, oh, I'm thinking of trying that, what that, what is it like?
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And I I enjoy that too, although I would consider myself, you know, like after so much time with people, I need to, you know, back off and have some alone time.
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But I am like that too.
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I love to chat with people.
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I think I got that from years of bartending, where I just, you know, I feel comfortable talking to anybody and I think that was one of the best things from from kind of having that job.
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But, yeah, I think that's so true and it and it's just, you know, without having that preconceived, any preconceptions, when you meet people, just meet them Very, very related to what I was going to say next Preconceived.
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So what is your enemy when it?
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When it comes to, firstly, we said we don't like the word networking.
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We got to change that.
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We talked about making friends and staying in touch.
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What is the enemy of this?
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The enemy of this is a confirmation mindset, and I'm going to explain.
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The best friend of this is a curiosity mindset.
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Simple, simple.
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If you think you're not that curious anymore, just look around you with kids.
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But why?
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But why?
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But why they're annoying AF.
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But, holy heck, they learn.
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They learn because they ask questions, and there is no such thing as a bad question.
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A curiosity mindset is like okay, I met I'll talk about the confirmation the bad one, right, I meet Annette at an event for personal brand professionals, all right, and I'm there, I'm sipping my drink, and and she's there like hi, so what do you do?
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Uh, so I am, let's say, currently between jobs.
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Like I want to be a personal brand strategist, so I'm learning from people around, but I've just been laid off, right, so I'm gonna say, oh, I'm currently between jobs, so, annette, and I'm not saying I'm just having fun role play.
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No, no, of course, and Annette is going to be like not exactly client material.
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Let me just withdraw to the next person.
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You know, like slide Always been looking right.
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Yeah, so a confirmation mindset is telling her that a person between jobs is not interesting and they have nothing to offer you.
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All right, same event, same two people, different scenario.
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We don't know each other.
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So, like Annette says, hey, sonal, so what do you do?
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I'm currently between jobs right now.
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Oh, I see.
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So what were you doing before?
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I used to run?
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I used to be chief marketing officer at a branding agency and I decided, after 25 years, I think it's time for a break.
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So I'm going to go off on an adventure in Madagascar and set up a not-for-profit.
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And she's like whoa, this woman's led a colorful life.
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I want to be in her energy.
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I want to learn from her.
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Now, if she hadn't asked what were you doing before, this conversation would have ended right there.
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So I can't tell you how many times when we have the confirmation mindset, we are inadvertently shooting ourselves in the foot because we make assumptions.
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Oh, this is a finance professional.
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He must be boring.
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This is a person between jobs, they have nothing to offer me and you, who knows, maybe yes and maybe no.
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People say dig your well before you are thirsty.
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I'm like hello, I'm always thirsty, like you know, pepsi back in the 80s or something is like.
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You know it, you keep drinking.
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It never quenches your thirst.
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What if you're always thirsty?
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So it's not a one time thing, right, and you're not digging your well before you're thirsty.
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You're just digging your well because that is the only way to get to the water.
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There's no other way.
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And it's not about like, oh, let me see what I can do and then I'll ask for a favor.
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But when you already have that relationship and both sides are honest, it's like Annette, actually I'm struggling with something.
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I wonder if I can talk to you for five minutes.
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She'll be like, yes, how can I help you?
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You don't have to try that hard.
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Why?
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Because, annette, when Annette needed it, I listened, you know.
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So it comes from a very good old-fashioned thing called reciprocity.
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You just don't be a dick.
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Sorry, just be.
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just be no no, no, I I am, I am with you, just be a nice person.
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When you're a nice person and you listen, the other person's like, hey, sonal, what can I do for you?
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And I'm like, as a matter of fact, I'm glad asked.
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There's something on my mind and I'm really excited to work at this company and I don't know who can refer me.
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But I see that you told me your husband oh, let me make a call, etc.
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Etc.
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It doesn't feel, you know, sleazy, and you didn't do this because you needed some.
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Sometimes we need something.
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That's OK, but you know it's a little foreplay sometimes, you know, just don't immediately go in for the, especially when there is no context, there's no relationship.
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Yes, yes, I mean, it is much different.
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You know the people that I'm friendly with, that you know I'm happy to help them.
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They could ask me for whatever and vice versa, but not not for for people that you just meet, vice versa, but not not for for people that you just meet and and um, you know, it's just, I just love this whole idea and it's so refreshing for me to to listen to you talk about this and to to share this.
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I'm so happy that you're sharing this with with people who are watching this now and we'll be listening later and on the podcast, because it's just.
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There's so many of these misconceptions and I think a big thing of it is just looking at people as other humans, another human, and it's so true, like I work with a lot of people in financial services executives and one of the things I always ask people is you know, what's something that would surprise me about you?
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Because I'm curious, I'd like to know a little bit about them, and I've had people tell me oh, I built my house with my bare, with my own hands, or I used to play professional basketball or things like this, and it's like oh, how cool, and people are interesting, they're interesting.
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It's very unusual to ever meet someone.
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For me me anyway that.
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I wouldn't want to have, you know, a 15 minute conversation with.
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I'm laughing at Leonard.
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I'm laughing at Leonard's comment, but you know, the whole thing about BU is so underrated I can't tell you.
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And Sarah says the same thing.
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You know, like when I'm live on LinkedIn, I'm a little goofy and I like my large cup of tea and my hair was not.
00:17:39.774 --> 00:17:45.964
And I remember my mom was watching once and she was like you know, you'd be better off putting it like this why don't you change your clothes?
00:17:45.964 --> 00:17:47.568
And I'm like that's not who I am Right.
00:17:47.568 --> 00:18:02.362
Or sometimes I'm snarky because there's a comment which I don't like and if I see it repeatedly, it is who I am.
00:18:02.382 --> 00:18:08.272
So, Sarah, not only are you enough, just the way you are, actually you're more than enough, and that is what is so wrong and so much in shortage in the world.
00:18:08.272 --> 00:18:13.887
Uh, because we have been conditioned for so many years that this is the way to be.
00:18:13.887 --> 00:18:14.589
To be impressive.
00:18:14.589 --> 00:18:16.542
Yes, I train and I teach and I help my clients.
00:18:16.542 --> 00:18:17.384
Yes, of course you have to be impressive.
00:18:17.384 --> 00:18:18.389
Yes, I train and I teach and I help my clients.
00:18:18.389 --> 00:18:19.653
Yes, of course you have to be impressive in an interview.
00:18:19.653 --> 00:18:21.058
Yes, of course we want to get that job.
00:18:21.058 --> 00:18:22.723
You know, sometimes there's a power imbalance.
00:18:22.723 --> 00:18:27.592
I get that, but not at the cost of your peace of mind.
00:18:27.592 --> 00:18:36.141
And you know I put up this front because I shared that I like golf, because it'll help from a networking point of view.
00:18:36.141 --> 00:18:40.409
Sooner or later that stuff catches up with us and it's not worth it.
00:18:40.630 --> 00:18:58.170
You know, when I'm looking at LinkedIn, I take so many things that I read with a grain of salt, because even when people share the most, maybe a most intimate thing or personal thing about themselves, if I'm sharing like I'm not getting a divorce, but if I was and I started talking about it on LinkedIn, I'm only sharing it because I want people to know.
00:18:58.170 --> 00:18:59.673
So it is.
00:18:59.673 --> 00:19:04.725
You know, I always try to bear that in mind, that people are sharing what they want.
00:19:04.825 --> 00:19:06.008
I think that's a really great point.
00:19:06.008 --> 00:19:12.951
I just want to stay here for a minute, Leonard, because there'll be trends and you'll be told you have to write these trends.
00:19:12.951 --> 00:19:16.541
You know, have a selfie, Paula mentioned, yesterday was National Selfie Day.
00:19:16.541 --> 00:19:19.802
You'll almost never catch me doing that duck face thing.
00:19:19.802 --> 00:19:22.682
I will never almost never talk about my family.
00:19:22.682 --> 00:19:23.923
There's nothing wrong with it.
00:19:23.923 --> 00:19:25.143
It's just not for me.
00:19:25.143 --> 00:19:27.943
So we're talking about something else now.
00:19:27.943 --> 00:19:35.412
But it does affect how you show up in networking as well yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:35.432 --> 00:19:37.196
So so paula gets our message.
00:19:37.196 --> 00:19:38.238
Yes, paula, we love you.
00:19:38.238 --> 00:19:40.971
Yeah, such a treat.
00:19:40.971 --> 00:19:46.143
So you were about to go into a thing for jobs yeah, very quick thing.
00:19:46.384 --> 00:19:50.596
Uh, this was my first viral post that went out in august 2020.
00:19:50.596 --> 00:20:00.098
It had like 1.3 million views and I couldn't like it was a full-time job just replying to those comments and it was a boring text post that I didn't think twice about and LinkedIn featured it in its news.
00:20:00.098 --> 00:20:06.994
It was nuts and the the topic was hobbies on the resume yes or no?
00:20:06.994 --> 00:20:09.798
So and I wrote why.
00:20:09.798 --> 00:20:20.507
One of the reasons I I like putting hobbies on the resume and not reading, swimming, listening to music, writing movies hello, I've already forgotten about.
00:20:20.507 --> 00:20:21.068
I'm going to sleep.
00:20:21.068 --> 00:20:26.447
I am going to sleep just like okay, um, reading, I'm on my latest jeffrey archer.
00:20:26.447 --> 00:20:31.216
Or golf, um, I have a eight handicap, whatever you know.
00:20:31.216 --> 00:20:35.611
Um, cooking, I'm currently known for the best brownies on the block.
00:20:35.611 --> 00:20:36.553
Something.
00:20:36.553 --> 00:20:39.748
Or crochet, nutty stuff, but something you love.
00:20:40.330 --> 00:20:50.047
The reason is because recruiters are human beings and it's about making a connection, and there were some hate comments and they were pretty violent and some of them said you're, you know, creating a bias.
00:20:50.047 --> 00:20:51.090
I'm like no, there is no bias.
00:20:51.090 --> 00:20:54.667
Whether it's golf or crochet, if it's free, if it's paid, it doesn't matter.
00:20:54.667 --> 00:20:55.608
Country club membership.
00:20:55.608 --> 00:21:00.898
The point is you're making a connection with the other person and they will want to call you and they will want to.
00:21:00.898 --> 00:21:01.558
At the end.
00:21:01.558 --> 00:21:11.865
I can't tell you how many times my clients are like oh, this guy wanted to talk about the rock festival in belgium because he's a big fan and I wrote that I play in this band and they connected on it.
00:21:11.946 --> 00:21:13.108
And, yes, there is bias.
00:21:13.108 --> 00:21:22.435
Of course, there bias, there's positive bias and there's confirmation bias, which is good, which is good and it serves you and you know, too bad for other candidates.
00:21:22.435 --> 00:21:30.854
But take advantage of things that make you interesting and different and if you put them on the resume already, you have got ahead of the networking before it.
00:21:30.854 --> 00:21:37.170
Even you could even meet another human being, because now people will know you as the person who does that and other.
00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:41.998
You know things like your day job, but I don't know.
00:21:41.998 --> 00:21:46.931
90, 95 percent of recruiters who saw that post said oh yeah, this works.
00:21:46.931 --> 00:21:47.612
I have seen.
00:21:47.612 --> 00:21:50.238
I have this example in that example yeah.
00:21:50.317 --> 00:22:01.717
so I want to just pull this up because Jay said volunteering can be used, known as professional experience, and I think that can be particularly helpful for people if they're changing careers.
00:22:02.285 --> 00:22:06.061
So there was a survey conducted on LinkedIn, I think back in 2017.
00:22:06.061 --> 00:22:18.449
And they said that hiring managers 41% of hiring managers consider volunteer experience at the same level as paid experience and I think over 90% of professionals on LinkedIn have listed volunteer experience.
00:22:18.449 --> 00:22:19.433
So definitely do that.
00:22:19.433 --> 00:22:28.550
You don't know who you're going to meet and through volunteer activity, I have, through volunteer activity, got paid jobs when I couldn't find paid work in Uruguay and Chile.
00:22:28.550 --> 00:22:42.488
So, like we talked about in the beginning, every single opportunity that you are with a human being, if you open your eyes to a curiosity mindset versus a confirmation mindset, is an opportunity to make a friend, Not network.
00:22:42.488 --> 00:22:44.274
Make a friend, exactly.
00:22:44.425 --> 00:22:44.566
So.
00:22:44.566 --> 00:22:55.091
We are just about at the end and I wanted to ask you, first of all, I wanted to ask you about the Supercharged Fridays and where that came from and if you could share a little bit about that, because I think it's such a valuable resource.
00:22:55.091 --> 00:23:04.594
And then if you have final thoughts, because I, you know we've talked about a lot, but if you know whatever you would like to share, as we, you know, go.
00:23:04.594 --> 00:23:05.255
So fast.
00:23:05.716 --> 00:23:06.878
Yeah, supercharge Fridays.
00:23:06.878 --> 00:23:07.920
I applied.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:09.488
This is back in 2019.
00:23:09.488 --> 00:23:14.318
I applied to be a beta tester for LinkedIn life twice and I was rejected.
00:23:14.318 --> 00:23:16.408
They were very selective about who they brought in.
00:23:16.408 --> 00:23:20.295
The third time, I applied in Jan 2020 and I got accepted.
00:23:20.335 --> 00:23:23.586
So, first of all, persistence never, ever hurts you.
00:23:23.586 --> 00:23:34.006
And then when I got it, I got it on a Wednesday and I immediately said I want to do something and I help people who have money, but what about people who don't have that much money?
00:23:34.006 --> 00:23:37.792
And this was my way of just sharing my knowledge and not keeping it to myself.
00:23:37.792 --> 00:23:41.138
And I've been going strong for three and a half years.
00:23:41.138 --> 00:23:47.503
So, jan 2020, it's now June 2023 and this is I could be having the crappiest week, but that is my happy hour.
00:23:47.503 --> 00:23:48.667
It's like, hey, what's happening?
00:23:48.667 --> 00:23:54.948
I'll bring in a guest Paula was a guest, um, or I'll be by myself if I don't have time to prep anything, I'll be like, hey, hey, what's happening?
00:23:54.948 --> 00:23:55.870
Guys, can I help?
00:23:55.870 --> 00:23:56.971
So ask me anything.
00:23:56.971 --> 00:24:02.360
And it's fun and I'm just who I am and I'm honest.
00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:06.996
And some advice it's not advice like do this, don't do this, it's perspectives.
00:24:06.996 --> 00:24:09.865
I want to share my perspectives because I've made so many mistakes.
00:24:09.865 --> 00:24:15.317
I love sharing those mistakes because if it helps someone to get to their destination faster, mission accomplished.
00:24:20.365 --> 00:24:25.356
Yeah, yeah, paula is such a wealth of, and very generous with her knowledge, so she's been on my show with me a few times as well.
00:24:25.356 --> 00:24:30.096
So what, what sort of final thoughts do you have to kind of wrap this up before we say goodbye?
00:24:31.246 --> 00:24:36.537
You know, just remember that it's not as scary as it might look.
00:24:36.537 --> 00:24:40.921
For example, you're at an event and there's a speaker and then you're like I want to.
00:24:40.921 --> 00:24:44.996
You know that person, really something spoke to my soul and I want to connect with them.
00:24:44.996 --> 00:24:50.369
I want to talk to them after the event and you're like but everyone's going to do that, there's going to be a long line.
00:24:50.369 --> 00:24:51.754
No, just do it.
00:24:51.754 --> 00:24:53.608
Actually, you know they want to hear from you.
00:24:53.608 --> 00:24:54.749
They actually you know they want to hear from you.
00:24:54.749 --> 00:24:58.475
They want to hear and not fangirling, but genuinely what you liked and what you took away.
00:24:58.475 --> 00:25:00.538
And they'll be like can I stay, can I connect with you?
00:25:00.538 --> 00:25:08.610
They'll be like, yes, so don't make those assumptions from a confirmation mindset, that if this person looks important, that means they are not accessible.
00:25:09.673 --> 00:25:12.893
Yeah, yeah, most people are just nice, right?
00:25:13.025 --> 00:25:23.495
I mean, most people are nice 99.9% of people are nice and the 0.1% that is that word that was censored that Leonard knows.
00:25:23.495 --> 00:25:25.541
They don't speak for the rest of us.
00:25:25.541 --> 00:25:26.785
They don't, unfortunately.
00:25:26.785 --> 00:25:31.640
The world gives them a pretty huge microphone, but they don't represent the rest of us.