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They built hundreds of high-authority links and content assets for EarlyBird, a fintech app driving over twenty thousand acquired users before EarlyBird was acquired by Acorns.
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What makes uSERP different is they don't just publish content and hope for the best. They engineer content assets that rank and convert, backed by links on sites like HubSpot, Gartner, and G2.
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That's uSERP dot I-O. Hey, and thanks for tuning in to another episode of Content Briefly.
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Really happy to be chatting today with Eric and Chloe about a recent article that I wrote for the Superpath blog called Three Things AI Has Changed About Content Marketing That Aren't Going Back.
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As I teased in the intro of this article-- or this podcast, I mean, this is my last nostalgic post, I promise. But I do find it helpful to kind of reflect on the state of content.
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For me personally, there's so many things I love doing that I don't really get to do anymore. Much of that is being replaced by new work that I enjoy doing as well, but it's just different.
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So I'll tease these three things real quick. The first is that writing is less commercially viable than it used to be.
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The second is that the marketing skill set has evolved to include things that marketers had previously not been asked to do. And the third is that your reputation is now your primary career asset.
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We talk about these in detail. We'll get thoughts from Chloe.
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Love chatting with Chloe on these podcasts because her takes on these are often running counter to my own perspective, and that's, I think, what makes for a good conversation. Love Eric's perspective too.
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You know, Chloe works at a larger company. Eric works at a smaller company. That also has a pretty significant effect on kinda like how you feel these changes in your day-to-day work.
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And then, as always, I think now is just the best time ever to join a community like Superpath to get support and to learn from your peers, to understand what they're experiencing in their work right now.
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It will make you feel a lot less overwhelmed. At least certainly that's the effect it has on me because I feel so much change, and then you pop into Slack and see that a lot of other people are experiencing that as well.
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But, you know, so many new ideas are emerging and new tactics are emerging. There's always cool things that you can learn even if you just wanna be a fly on the wall.
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Plus, all the programming Alex has going right now is just fantastic. There's at least a couple things every week that you can join in, you can learn, you can meet people, or you can observe.
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There's just a ton of great opportunities. And as always, there's a thirty-day free trial, so you can learn all about that at superpath.co. I'll get out of the way now.
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Please enjoy this conversation with Eric, Chloe, and I. Hey, everybody. Jimmy from Miro.
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[chuckles] I thought actually as we dive into this podcast, it'd be fun if we each just gave a quick work update, like something cool that you're working on at work, and I can go first to give you guys a second to think about it since I didn't tell you I was gonna ask you that.
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So- Thank you... sold Superpath in the fall and have been working at Reforge mostly on product marketing, which I've really enjoyed. Reforge, super cool company.
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Very, like, kinda like higher performance culture, but not, like, it's not, like, run you to the ground type of pace either. I was learning a lot, great people, et cetera.
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Anyways, Reforge got acquired by Miro just a couple of weeks ago, and so I'm now a Miro employee. And so anyways, a lot of change. I certainly didn't expect that.
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But it's been really interesting to see how a much larger company works. You know, Miro's close to two thousand employees. The marketing team is, you know, I don't-- I actually don't really know.
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I'm gonna guess more than a hundred people. And I've never- Oh, wow. Wow.
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I've just never been in a marketing org like this and still trying to figure out, like, where exactly I fit in and where I can support and add value and all that good stuff.
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But the scale of it is just so difficult to wrap my mind around. I'm so used to, like, scrappy one person, maybe two, kinda like duct taping it together with Claude type of thing, and, like, this is not that.
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Sounds familiar. I mean, there is a heavy dose of AI, but the scale is... And I'll report back.
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I imagine I'm gonna learn a ton about how large and also, like, really successful company is operating from a marketing perspective. So anyways, that's my update. Awesome. Chloe, how about you? Well, humble brag moment.
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I actually won an award on our marketing team- Oh, nice... which was really unexpected, and so that was a really nice thing to hear on our all-hands. The award is called Cross-Team Skadoosh Award.
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I don't know what that really means. I need to Google it, but it reminds me of, like, OshKosh B'Gosh or something. But anyway- [chuckles]...
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essentially, and I'm not gonna, like, read out my award 'cause that's awkward, but, you know, essentially, it was for time to impact and, like, cross-collaboration and all the things that I kinda talk about here.
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So it was nice to get, [chuckles] like, recognized for that. And yeah. I am celebrating my six months with Visier in the next couple weeks on the twenty-seventh. So it is flying by for sure. Dang. Congrats.
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That's super cool. Yeah.I need to get awards for Doc's marketing team, and I can just award myself employee of the month- I would love that... every single month. Please record a video of you giving yourself an award.
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Yeah, yeah, every month, passing it like the green jacket at the Masters where, like, the previous winner puts it- [laughs]... on the next winner. I'll just be putting it on myself every month.
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Yeah, I mean, Doc is going really well.
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We're hiring a new salesperson and likely a new customer success person, which is always the signal that, like, I've created enough demand in marketing that our team needs to grow to meet that demand.
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So that's been- Love it... really great. And I can't, like, share revenue numbers, but, like, we've hit our milestone again this quarter.
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We, like, pretty much hit them every quarter for the last bunch of quarters, despite our, like, organic traffic being our number one source of business and that being, like, a third of what it used to be.
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But it hasn't stopped the business from coming in, so great lesson there on, like, does traffic mean anything? Probably not.
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And then the other cool thing I did the other day before we get started is that I finally made, like, a dashboard where I connected, like, HubSpot data to Google Analytics and a whole bunch of other things where I could just, like, pull up a report and say, like, "People who landed on this blog post resulted in this amount of pipeline."
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Oh, I love that. And it was, like, so satisfying to just see that, like, you know, some blog posts that we wrote two years ago for, like, $1,000 with a freelance writer generated, like, $200,000 of pipeline.
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You're like, "Yes, I did it." So that was really exciting. I'll share more about that later in the future. Okay. Yeah, I was gonna ask. Please tell us more. Like, did you vibe code it? Where is it? Okay.
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Not this episode. I'm sorry, listeners. What a tease. What a tease. Yeah, join Superpath Pro to find out. There we go. Okay.
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[laughs] Well, a- as, as become kind of tradition in 2026, we're gonna do a brief discussion on this article that I recently published on the Superpath blog.
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And just a disclaimer, all of my articles on the Superpath blog have been super nostalgic, and I promise this is the last one that feels that way. The rest are gonna be, like, a little more- I don't believe you.
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[laughs] Okay, yeah. Well, you know what? You can... When you edit the next one, you can, [laughs] you can just do, like- I'll remind you.
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Yeah, highlight the entire article and just say, "Stop," in your comment, and then I'll know. But one of the things I've been thinking about so much at reforge and now at Miro is just, like, what are the...
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You know, like, since the last time I was in-house, marketing is just so different. Like, even though the end goal is the same, like, the, what goes into it and the skills that you rely on are just so different.
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So, like, this is s- somewhat, like, a personal reflection and some reminders to myself. But I also find that, like, that type of thinking tends to make for good blog posts as well.
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So if you guys are up for it, I would love to just, like, chat through these three points and get your take on them.
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The first is that writing is a less commercially viable skill than it used to be, and this is, to me, just, like, the most challenging thing to accept about all of the many changes happening in marketing right now.
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And upon reflection, the thing I kinda zeroed in on was that B2B SaaS companies, while they have invested and enjoyed success because of content marketing, they never really cared about the craft of writing.
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They really only cared about the output of it. And so now that there's a new, cheaper way to get the output, that's what they want. Uh, you know, I mean, assuming it's a reasonable proxy for the old way of doing things.
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And I think that's, in some ways, sort of a healthy reminder that that was the thing before and is still the thing now. To me, the h- like I said, the hard part is, like, I like writing. I enjoy the craft of it.
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And, like, I think a lot of content folks really enjoyed working in this space for a long time because it was a place where they could flex their creative muscles, enjoy this thing that they, you know, like all writers, toil and struggle, but it's also satisfying.
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You sort of... That being the basis of your day-to-day work is really satisfying, and that's a hard thing to let go of. Uh, you know, so to speak. I'm being a little bit dramatic.
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But I'm curious from both of your perspectives, what do you think about that? Like, do you agree, first of all, that writing is less commercially viable, and, like, how do you feel about it? No. Good.
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[laughs] Okay, let's go. [laughs] I think writing, like, good writing is always going to be valuable. I mean, yes, obviously I'm biased, for sure. But I
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am proud of, like, the tone of voice that I've evolved, and I think that if you haven't figured that out from, like, a writing perspective, it's what we always talk about when it comes to AI, right?
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It's like the AI outputs are only going to be as good as the inputs that you put into it. I think that was too many into's and inputs, but you know what I'm trying to say.
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And I think that that comes from, like, knowing what good writing is, recognizing good writing, and having the skill set. And there's all this conversation about, like, knowing taste and knowing judgment.
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I still feel like that goes hand in hand with writing. And I can tell, you know, when someone's a good writer and when someone is a bad writer.
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It is true that AI makes it, can make it easier for a crappy writer to be a better writer, but I don't necessarily think that it's gonna make, you know, something that...
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Uh, I don't, I still don't think it, it produces, like, the caliber that, I don't know, I hold myself accountable to and that I would want the company that, you know, I'm leading content for to hold themselves accountable to as well.
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This is why we like having you, Chloe. [laughs] Because I'm guessing Eric has a different opinion that's probably more AI-centric. No, I, no, I'm... I mean, there's multiple marketing sides of me.
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Like, look at the Superpath newsletter that I write.
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I'm pretty much paid to just, like, have musings and, you know, riff what's top of my mind every week, and I think the writing style is part of the value I'm providing there and just being, like, personable and relatable and all these things.
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And that's, like, commercially viable for Superpath to have that kind of writing in terms of, like, a funnel into our community and things like that.
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But my, I got my start in writing by just writing SEO posts, like, all day, every day for two years, where-You know, the goal was like write three landing pages per day, and that was my whole job, and so like that job I don't think is going to exist anymore.
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So I think like the word writing, I think Chloe pulled out the word writing means a lot of things to a lot of different people, and so like the physical act of putting 2,000 words on a page, like I don't think that is as a, as a viable skill as it was before.
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I also think like less commercially viable. The word less is like, is it 10% less or [chuckles] is it 80%? Mm-hmm.
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Like, like if you read that headline as is, it, it doesn't mean that like writing as a skill is going away.
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But I do think that you could have a full-time job just writing blog posts before, and the reality is now that there is some expectation that you will also probably be building some AI workflows and things like that, and I know, I know we're coming to that in your next point.
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But I, I do think it's like if there is a pie of the work to be done, the writing piece is like a smaller piece of the pie, right? Yeah.
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But I do think, I do think like research and taste and all those things that Chloe brought up, like if you bucket those under writing as a skill, then like absolutely all those things are still commercially viable.
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But just like maybe quantity of output is less viable than it used to be. I think you've like very accurately captured what I was trying to say. [chuckles] Like I think back to like I think it was 20
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thir- 2013 or 2014, I got this job at Vero, which is like a tiny little startup that did transactional email, and like my job was...
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I think my title was content, content manager or content creator, so all I did was write basically. You know? And it was like they would pay me to write, and like a lot of that was like I would unplug, you know?
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It's almost [chuckles] like you could sort of turn off your internet and have some music going and just write. Like, that just doesn't, that job doesn't exist anymore.
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Like, say w- I was to like start that exact same job with the same goal, the same end goal today, there's no way.
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Like, I would be t- probably trying to build a system that would help facilitate content creation and then like applying my taste and style to that, but not spending hours and hours in a Google Doc tweaking things and moving sentences around and cutting and all that, which I completely appreciate from the commercial perspective.
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Like, that's what the company wants. I just feel a bit sad that I can't, I likely could not get paid at least like a living wage to just toil in the doc, which is a thing I really love doing. I think that's fair.
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I was just gonna ask, like what's the positive flip side to that for you? 'Cause I don't, [chuckles] I don't want this to be like Jimmy is sad about three, all, all these things about his job.
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Is that all of my podcast that I was just sad? [chuckles] Yeah. So like what is the positive flip side for you if like writing is less of the job? Like, w- what does that unlock for you that's exciting?
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Yeah, that's, I think that's a really interesting question. Maybe that is the next question, though. Like, you, you talked about the evolving skill set, so maybe we get into that. Yes. Why don't we do that?
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So the second thing on this list of things that are changing is that the marketing skill set has evolved to include a bunch of things that marketers have not typically been asked to do previously, and I think that kind of gets into this question, like you said, Eric.
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Like, there was a time probably, probably during my Vero years, so this is...
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Yeah, we're going back like 12, 12-ish years to that point where I think a lot of writers, certainly myself included, have a kind of a builder's mindset as well.
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Like, in my mind, writing is a form of building, so is creating a spreadsheet and doing some analysis.
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Then came no code and making like a fancy air table to use as a content calendar with some automations built in, and then now the version of that is AI and the subcategories of that, vibe coding, workflow automation, et cetera.
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Like, to me, all those things are building, and so I get to still spend a lot of time building. It's just maybe a little less
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specific to sitting in a Google Doc building, and it's more like thinking about a system and trying to create something that will run on its own. So, like, I'm actually not saying that work is less satisfying.
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I actually think that- Mm...
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exploring AI and automation and building these systems and the things that so many people are doing right now is awesome, and it's new for everybody, so the learning curve is somewhat steep, but we're all kind of in the relat- like relatively the same place on that curve also.
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You know, with some exceptions, of course. Some people are, like, killing it, way ahead, but I like it. I enjoy it.
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Like, the thought of having, like, a problem and then, like, trying to go find a solution in Claude is, I think that's fun. Chloe, what do you think? I mean, I use AI the least out of this group, right?
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Like, we've established that time and time again. I am not the tinkering kind. I am impatient and like things to get done and move on, so
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that would not build me joy or would not, you know, create joy for me personally.
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But I do think, I mean, content as a whole, and I think this, we've talked about this before, it is a very wide definition of, like, what content is supposed to entail, and this actually gets back to your first point where it's, like, writing, and if your only job on paper is writing, say, like, landing pages and emails, I agree with you that, like, that's probably not gonna be a defined job, right?
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Like, you're always gonna be adding more to it. I do wonder, like, how fair that is in a new era of productivity, and again, it gets back to the conversation of just because you can doesn't mean that you should.
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So I don't know. Those are just a couple things. Yeah. And w- what's fun for me, uh, is that, like, we're all beginners now constantly [chuckles] like in...
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I mean, we, we have, like, our career experience to fall back on, but, like, what tactics work or what... tools you have available, all these things.
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Like, I used to join a company, your first 90 days would be really exciting on the job, like figuring it all out, and then you'd kinda solve the puzzle, and then it was just like y- okay, you build the machine, and then you let the machine run.
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And there was some experimentation here and there, but for the most part, you'd, like, solve your job, and then it would get boring unless you got promoted and things like that.
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But I [chuckles] find now that, like, I'm constantly on this learner's treadmill and, like, I'm having to maintain a beginner's mindset at all times of what works, what doesn't work, what should I be working on, what should I not be working on.
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And so, like, to me, that's just made work more fun that, you know, let's say 70% of the pie was writing before and now it's 30% or something like that, and now my, like, strategic wheels are spinning more often, getting, like you said, getting to be a builder, experiment more, you know, dig more into reporting and my product marketing skill set.
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And, like, I think in sales enablement, like, I'm able... It's just able to unlock, like, a much wider, like, breadth of skills and also, like, where I get to spend my time.
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I find that more rewarding personally, even though, like, every once in a while I love to open the Superpath newsletter and be like, "I'm just gonna write something, like, completely, you know, dumb today that will just, like, give people a laugh."
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Do you think it's actually unlocked my ability to enjoy writing more, funny enough?
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Because I spend s- so much less of my day job just pure writing that when I get to just sit down with, like, a blank Google Doc, it's such a f- fun experience for me now 'cause it's like a throwback.
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That's interesting that you don't find it, like, daunting. You know, like, so what you're saying is it hasn't stopped you from, you know, having, like, writer's block or anything like that. And I think
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that's counter to what we hear a lot with, like, AI, right? Is that, like, it's kinda like turning off your brain and it's turning this. Like, you're...
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And I wonder if that's a forcing function of, like, your, you know, your role, like, in content, or whether, I don't know, non-marketers would feel that way as well too. Yeah.
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I mean, I, I think it's, like, working a different part of my brain. Like, that's why- Yeah... I like working in Superpath and Doc.
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And, uh, like, I, I think the more, like, breadth I get, the more it actually lets me enjoy each individual piece, which is maybe counterintuitive. You'd think it would, like, wear me out, but I- Yeah...
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I get, like, excited to jump back to the other task. I have two quick reactions to that. One is that, just a quick note on the newsletter, we get so much positive feedback on the newsletter.
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I don't think you always see the replies, Eric, but I still get... Well, I guess sh-... Since it's on Beehiiv, I don't get them anymore, but until that move, when people would reply, I would get them.
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And so many people respond and say, "I just love this newsletter. That was such a great story. Eric's the best." Like, we get a lot of that, and- They're mostly me and my family. Sounds like Eric needs a Superpath award.
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Yeah. [laughs] We can, we can Five Toe you up an, an award, Eric. [laughs] Newsletter Writer of the Month for Superpath. Yeah. [laughs] Jacket. But, like, to your point that, like, say you assist your...
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You use AI as a bit of an assist for those, like, you know, that's sort of different than the writing is less commercially viable idea.
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It's like, it's your thoughts, your ideas, like, your unique stories, and it resonates, I guess, is the point.
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The second thing is I feel like the wide T, if you're a T-shaped marketer and your horizontal axis is super wide, like, it... Yeah, I feel like it suits y- someone like you perfectly, you know?
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Like, suits your personality type, the way your brain works, and then also, like, the type of work you do. And, like, I can also appreciate that, like, it doesn't, like, apply equally to everyone based on- Mm-hmm...
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how they like to work and also just the context in which they work. I was thinking also a lot about, like, what is the new marketing skill set?
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Because I feel like it went from, like, sorta, you know, like, a handful of, like, fairly specialized roles where you might dabble in other things to, like, everyone's sort of a generalist.
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I'm exaggerating a bit, but, like, that does seem to be a trend. Maybe that corrects itself at some point as this all sorts out. But I did...
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I feel like I tried to s- think through, like, what are the patterns that I see right now related to skills?
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The one that stood out to me was that AI makes execution of basically everything easier, which means that deciding what to work on is... That on its own is an important skill. Yeah.
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I was thinking back to, like, remember when HubSpot came out with the Marketing Grader or the Website Grader tool probably 10 years ago? Mm-hmm. Oh my God, I was in that so much. Well, it was really good, right?
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And, like, I, I think I was at Animals at that time, and then, like, a bunch of our clients were like, "Oh, we wanna build something like this," and it turns out, wow, it's, like, prohibitively expensive. Now it's not.
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You can make it in, like, 30 minutes. Uh, y- you know, or whatever version of it you wanna make, you know? And I think that situation is true, like, kind of across the board.
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Like, you have so many different things that are now affordable, even easy, that you have to think twice about how you prioritize your work, and it gets a lot more difficult to stay focused, as we discussed in the shiny object episode recently.
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So I think that is an emerging skill that I think probably wasn't as pressing but is now very top of mind.
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And then two other just quicker ones are, at the moment, I sense that technical skills have become a bit more valuable than creative skills, although I don't know that will last.
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Like, I think companies are looking for people who are, like, super advanced in their AI skills, and they're less interested in creativity. Again, I don't know that's a trend that's gonna go on forever.
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And then another one that I think is also probably short term is scale. Like, I just hear so many people emphasizing the potential of scaling up a marketing program with fewer people. And- Yeah... so one of the thing...
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One of the sort of skills you have to develop is, like, well, how do you do more as a single person?
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I feel like there's always some, like, capitalistic pressure to, like, squeeze more out of each individual, but, like- Mm-hmm... more with less has been a theme of the last few years for sure.
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But again, I won't be too surprised if we revisit that and the last idea, I don't know, two, three years from now and the pendulum has swung or is swinging back in the other direction. Any reactions to any of that?
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Chloe, I'm curious how you react to that, 'cause, like, a lot of those things describe me, but that's not every content marketer. There's- Yeah...
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like Jimmy said, there's a, a bunch of different sort of, like, archetypes of content marketer.
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And so, like, f- for someone who's maybe, like, more on the creativeSide, like how is that landing with you and like maybe what skills have you felt are changing or developing in your world?
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Well, what's interesting is I had a conversation with my boss like years ago, and someone called me a creative in a meeting, and he told me about it and he's like, "You know, do you think you're creative?"
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And I was like, "Yeah, I can be creative." And he's like, "'Cause I answered and I said, 'No, she's not a creative, she's a strategist.'" And I was like, "Well, why can't I be both?" And like,
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so I actually don't consider myself to be the most creative person. It actually takes more for me to get to that mode than it does for me to be in strategy business impact, like analysis mode.
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That's just like the way that I'm wired- Totally. Right. Yeah... and the way I've wired my career. But what I do think is interesting is that content is one of these like weird things. I mean, maybe it's not.
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I just obviously haven't looked at a bunch of other job functions, but I don't necessarily think that it...
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content is headed to a more generalist way when you look at the job descriptions and the things that are out there, because we're seeing, you know, we talked about this before, like the boom of storytelling and like really specialized roles that's like...
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And granted, they're in larger companies. I absolutely think this is a company size thing.
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But you're seeing really specific roles for really specific things like executive content, like thought leadership streams, right?
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Like, I don't know how long those are gonna happen, but I also don't know if in a year from now, and I think we talked about this too, where it's like, you know, you have this like AI, like content engineer sort of thing, and you're the one that's managing the workflows and creating it and setting it up.
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I don't necessarily know if that's gonna be a specific position or if that's gonna become more of like a consultant-led field.
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And then the last thing I'll say that I think is just interesting is when we talk about the do more with less, it makes me wanna bang my head against my desk. But you're completely right that that's been the trend.
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But the other thing that I'm also seeing is CMOs are being tasked with that in the sense of, oh, well, don't think about how you would run a team. Think about how you would run a team of agents.
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So I don't know if I love that that's where the world is going. But yeah, I mean, running a team of bots is gonna be wildly different than running a team of humans that have thoughts and feelings in their own minds.
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Like, so I don't know. I have... I'm curious what the world has o- in store for all of us. [chuckles] I feel like so much of this is influenced by LinkedIn chatter. You know what I mean?
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Like, I also, like I just see posts every five seconds about like the future is managing agents and, you know, the people who are gonna succeed have these skills, and like everyone's jobs are about to be like absolutely blown up by agents and blah, blah, blah.
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And I'm not to- one, I'm just not totally sold, and two, LinkedIn is so performative that it's hard to suss out like is anyone sharing like helpful stuff or is it just, is everything just algorithm bait?
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You know what I mean? That gets a bit to my next point. But before we jump to that, Eric, do you have any other thoughts on this second idea of the skill set? No.
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Just thanks, Chloe, for sharing your perspective, and excited to get to point number three. [laughs] Okay. I just can't wait. Point number three, your reputation is now your primary career asset.
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And I think the change here is that it used to be easier to let people know how good you were at marketing, and now it's harder. And I think the change is at least, uh, well, for content marketers specifically.
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I can't speak for all marketers 'cause maybe, you know, maybe PPC marketers have always had this problem. I'm not... I don't really know.
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But for content marketers, you could basically prove yourself by writing and having a byline and attracting people to read those articles and then sharing a link.
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You know, you apply for something, you share a link and say, "Oh, this article got X number of page views," or whatever.
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I mean, it was, you know, you could sort of build a really good portfolio over time of good work, and it's all publicly available with your name on it.
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I think that was a super important thing, and still is, about content marketing. And like for my own career, like that was huge.
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Like that was really like the thing that got me from zero to one, was just having my name attached to stuff that performed well.
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And now I just feel like it's so much harder to assess whether or not someone is a good content marketer. Like, how do you-- Like I don't really know how to assess AI fluency, and I know that there's
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ways to do it, like Zapier. Wade Foster, the CEO of Zapier, has tweeted a ton about how they're assessing AI fluency in hiring and for performance reviews, and like I kinda get it.
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I'm glad I'm not trying to do that right now 'cause it sounds really difficult. And also like, is that the right thing to assess? I do- I don't know. Uh, probably not.
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The thing it, it sort of brought me back to was the way that you work with people, the way that you communicate with them, whether or not you can build trust with the people you work with.
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Like, these are the things that go into your reputation, and like that is the number one thing that I want to have right now is a reputation of just being like reliable, trustworthy, good to work with because there's so much else floating around out there that is maybe noise and maybe not.
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Like if we're still sorting that out, I think. But your reputation stays with you regardless of all these other changes. I'd add a fourth thing to that. Yeah, tell me please. Which is so self-serving, but it's so true.
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Like I think your reputation around those areas, being trustworthy, reliable, forget the third one you said, but like those are really important. But I also wanna be known for being good at what I do. Okay. Yes.
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Like y- meaning like your peers and coworkers are like, "Oh, Chloe knows her shit." Yeah. Yeah.
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'Cause I think that goes hand in hand with like how you build trust is actually doing the things, you know, and, and becoming kind of like an expert in your own lane as much as you possibly can.
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And part of that is kind of building, I guess, your own-Brand expertise, domain, whatever you want to call it, like within your organization.
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But I think that's something you also want to be doing like externally, which is why I think this whole building your brand online and LinkedIn, which we all used to think was so creepy and weird and strange, is now like, "Oh my God, I haven't posted on LinkedIn in a week.
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What is happening with me?" Right. You know, which is kind of ridiculous navel-gazing, but is kind of the truth of the matter. [laughs] Yeah, and I'll throw in another variable too.
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Like, we probably all got started in our careers in an office. You were hired locally where the demand pool was small. Like now, like during COVID, everything went remote. There's like zero interest desert period.
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All these SaaS companies had a ton of money. All these freelance writers from all over the world popped up, and now if you post that you have a free...
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like a writing gig on LinkedIn available, you're gonna get 3,000 applications- Oh, God, yeah... within 24 hours. [laughs] And like, so, and that's also the reality that everyone is dealing with.
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Like, it's difficult to hire. It's difficult to be hired.
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So I don't have an answer for this, but it has come up a lot in Superpath too, where people say like, "Yeah, I'm applying to a job where they want me to be AI forward. Like, what should my portfolio look like?
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I don't even know. Like, should I post Claude skills I've built, and should I..." Like, and I do think that's probably one solution.
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Like if you, in the case of an AI forward role, like have more like a project-based portfolio.
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I mean, even in the past, if you had a writing portfolio, it was better to say, "I wrote this thing, it achieved these results.
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Like, here was my process," or something like that, something that wasn't just a link and some writing. But that problem is only more challenging now.
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Totally agree that like, yeah, if someone hands you a piece of writing as a finished product, it's impossible to know like what went into that and even like did this... If you knew something amazing in 30 seconds, great.
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Maybe. [laughs] Like, but maybe- Yeah... you had an amazing editor. Maybe you had... Like, I need to know the steps now. It's just so, it's like a black box now. Yeah. For sure.
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I guess the way I combat that though is if I'm actually like interviewing and looking at people for some sort of writing heavy position or editing heavy position, I always ask them more about their actual process, and that's where I would talk about like the AI workflow- Mm-hmm...
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part of it, I guess, if I were interviewing. 'Cause if your process takes you three seconds to explain, then the output of it probably isn't gonna be that great, right? So I don't know. I think that's an interesting one.
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Yeah. I will say too, I even had this problem pre-AI. When I joined Doc and I was looking for freelance writers, I s- took
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having worked for like a large marketing or like a well-known SaaS company as like an indicator of quality for freelance writers. Like they said, "Oh, I worked..."
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Like I'm not gonna name drop 'cause I don't wanna insult those companies. But someone would say, "I worked for this really big brand you know," and then I would say, "Great, you're hired." And then- [laughs]...
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as it turns out, like those companies have very big marketing teams with lots of editing layers, and the output is always gonna be good at those companies, even if the input from the writer wasn't great.
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And I think th- that problem is only magnified by AI in that like I don't know what your inputs are. And so I learned very quickly that the brand names on your portfolio were not an- actually an indicator of quality.
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Sometimes it was even the opposite. And so yeah, that's another thing as someone who's hiring, that it gets harder and harder to know if someone's good at writing or not, or like hires a good content marketer.
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If you're hiring for writing or editing, I'm probably gonna get pitchforks thrown at me for this, but like have a test- Yeah... in your interview process.
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I know everyone's applying to hundreds and hundreds of jobs, but like you have to be able to assess that. You have to.
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I have a quick thought on that, that is related to this point, which is when I was running the Superpath Marketplace, like I did a...
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I went through a period where I did a ton of outbound to try to bring on new customers, because every SaaS company worked with freelancers, and the only way I ever saw people hiring those freelancers was basically posting on LinkedIn.
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So like part of the idea was like, oh, well we can sort of vet people from the community, and then we'll match them up.
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I would say, if I'm being honest, the marketplace never really turned into what I hoped it would become, and I actually think part of the reason why is that once people find good freelancers, they kind of bring them around from job to job- Mm-hmm...
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from project to project. I do that too. Yeah, like- Yeah...
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if Miro says, "Hey, we need someone to write a newsletter," I'm gonna say, uh, the first thing I'm gonna do is shoot Eric a note and be like, "Hey, Eric, you wanna write a newsletter? 'Cause you're gonna-" Yeah.
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Like, I have a ton of trust that you'll do it well because of our experience together- Mm-hmm... versus like going to a marketplace or posting on LinkedIn and dealing with 3,000 applications and s- you know.
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And like same with a bunch of other marketing projects, is like i- kind of a roster of people that I've gotten to know over my career that I would happily work with again, and how much easier is it to just go straight to them?
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So anyways, it sort of feeds into the idea of like your reputation, being easy to work with- Totally, yeah... all that. It's all great.
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And I wonder if kind of your point, Eric, about kind of the globalization of these roles and these skill sets may make people lean even harder on their own network of people that they have worked with and trust as a go-to.
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Totally. You know? Full circle why joining a network is so important. [laughs] Oh, exactly. So- Like Superpath Pro. Yeah. [laughs] But it's so true.
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No, I have a, like this l- friend locally, Mike, who I worked with at my f- first job here in town in Nanaimo, and every company I've worked at since, I hire him for just like an hourly rate to just odd jobs.
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He's just like the guy I know I can send any random SEO content work to, just like miscellaneous tasks that I need someone to spend three hours on that I don't have time on.
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And like every single workplace I've been to, I've hired him again. And so like I think if you can just become someone's go-to person, like that's such a valuable resource.
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And then f- vice versa, like if you're the person hiring, like build your team and keep those people. Yeah. Love it. I apologize, guys. I have to take a sick dog to the vet, so- Wow...
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it's not like a great- Is that an expression?... segue. Yeah. [laughs] Hope your pup feels better. [laughs] Yeah. It's fun to do this.
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Like now that we do this once a month, I just like, I look forward to it so much 'cause it's fun to catch up with you guys and chat about all the stuff.
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I find it to be- Well, it's good 'cause we started this conversation talking about you being sad, so I'm glad that we've ended on a cheerful- Yeah... positive note. Jimmy is smiling for the record. Yes. He is.
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No more sad blog posts. With a very handsome mustache. If you... I won't paint more of a picture than that. You'll have to, uh- I am the only one on this call without a mustache. How sad. [laughs] Okay.
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Well, mine's connected to a beard. Okay. [laughs] We're holding Jimmy back from a very important vet appointment to talk about beards and mustaches. Quick plug for Superpath Pro. 30-day free trial. Build your network.
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Also, commiserate with peers who are all experiencing very similar things in their own careers right now. Also, the programming Alex has been putting out is just insane lately. It's...
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There's so much good stuff happening. Absolutely. Project Net. And like when you get the list of stuff happening each week, I see it and I'm like, "Dang, that's a busy... There's a lot."
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There's so many opportunities to learn, participate, be a fly on the wall, meet people. It's awesome. So superpath.co for all of that. Eric, Chloe, as always, it's great to chat, and we'll see you next time. Sounds good.
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Bye. See you guys. [outro music]
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That's uSERP dot I-O. Hey, and thanks for tuning in to another episode of Content Briefly.
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Really happy to be chatting today with Eric and Chloe about a recent article that I wrote for the Superpath blog called Three Things AI Has Changed About Content Marketing That Aren't Going Back.
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As I teased in the intro of this article-- or this podcast, I mean, this is my last nostalgic post, I promise. But I do find it helpful to kind of reflect on the state of content.
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For me personally, there's so many things I love doing that I don't really get to do anymore. Much of that is being replaced by new work that I enjoy doing as well, but it's just different.
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So I'll tease these three things real quick. The first is that writing is less commercially viable than it used to be.
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The second is that the marketing skill set has evolved to include things that marketers had previously not been asked to do. And the third is that your reputation is now your primary career asset.
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We talk about these in detail. We'll get thoughts from Chloe.
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Love chatting with Chloe on these podcasts because her takes on these are often running counter to my own perspective, and that's, I think, what makes for a good conversation. Love Eric's perspective too.
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You know, Chloe works at a larger company. Eric works at a smaller company. That also has a pretty significant effect on kinda like how you feel these changes in your day-to-day work.
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And then, as always, I think now is just the best time ever to join a community like Superpath to get support and to learn from your peers, to understand what they're experiencing in their work right now.
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It will make you feel a lot less overwhelmed. At least certainly that's the effect it has on me because I feel so much change, and then you pop into Slack and see that a lot of other people are experiencing that as well.
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But, you know, so many new ideas are emerging and new tactics are emerging. There's always cool things that you can learn even if you just wanna be a fly on the wall.
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Plus, all the programming Alex has going right now is just fantastic. There's at least a couple things every week that you can join in, you can learn, you can meet people, or you can observe.
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There's just a ton of great opportunities. And as always, there's a thirty-day free trial, so you can learn all about that at superpath.co. I'll get out of the way now.
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Please enjoy this conversation with Eric, Chloe, and I. Hey, everybody. Jimmy from Miro.
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[chuckles] I thought actually as we dive into this podcast, it'd be fun if we each just gave a quick work update, like something cool that you're working on at work, and I can go first to give you guys a second to think about it since I didn't tell you I was gonna ask you that.
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So- Thank you... sold Superpath in the fall and have been working at Reforge mostly on product marketing, which I've really enjoyed. Reforge, super cool company.
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Very, like, kinda like higher performance culture, but not, like, it's not, like, run you to the ground type of pace either. I was learning a lot, great people, et cetera.
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Anyways, Reforge got acquired by Miro just a couple of weeks ago, and so I'm now a Miro employee. And so anyways, a lot of change. I certainly didn't expect that.
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But it's been really interesting to see how a much larger company works. You know, Miro's close to two thousand employees. The marketing team is, you know, I don't-- I actually don't really know.
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I'm gonna guess more than a hundred people. And I've never- Oh, wow. Wow.
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I've just never been in a marketing org like this and still trying to figure out, like, where exactly I fit in and where I can support and add value and all that good stuff.
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But the scale of it is just so difficult to wrap my mind around. I'm so used to, like, scrappy one person, maybe two, kinda like duct taping it together with Claude type of thing, and, like, this is not that.
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Sounds familiar. I mean, there is a heavy dose of AI, but the scale is... And I'll report back.
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I imagine I'm gonna learn a ton about how large and also, like, really successful company is operating from a marketing perspective. So anyways, that's my update. Awesome. Chloe, how about you? Well, humble brag moment.
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I actually won an award on our marketing team- Oh, nice... which was really unexpected, and so that was a really nice thing to hear on our all-hands. The award is called Cross-Team Skadoosh Award.
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I don't know what that really means. I need to Google it, but it reminds me of, like, OshKosh B'Gosh or something. But anyway- [chuckles]...
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essentially, and I'm not gonna, like, read out my award 'cause that's awkward, but, you know, essentially, it was for time to impact and, like, cross-collaboration and all the things that I kinda talk about here.
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So it was nice to get, [chuckles] like, recognized for that. And yeah. I am celebrating my six months with Visier in the next couple weeks on the twenty-seventh. So it is flying by for sure. Dang. Congrats.
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That's super cool. Yeah.I need to get awards for Doc's marketing team, and I can just award myself employee of the month- I would love that... every single month. Please record a video of you giving yourself an award.
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Yeah, yeah, every month, passing it like the green jacket at the Masters where, like, the previous winner puts it- [laughs]... on the next winner. I'll just be putting it on myself every month.
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Yeah, I mean, Doc is going really well.
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We're hiring a new salesperson and likely a new customer success person, which is always the signal that, like, I've created enough demand in marketing that our team needs to grow to meet that demand.
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So that's been- Love it... really great. And I can't, like, share revenue numbers, but, like, we've hit our milestone again this quarter.
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We, like, pretty much hit them every quarter for the last bunch of quarters, despite our, like, organic traffic being our number one source of business and that being, like, a third of what it used to be.
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But it hasn't stopped the business from coming in, so great lesson there on, like, does traffic mean anything? Probably not.
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And then the other cool thing I did the other day before we get started is that I finally made, like, a dashboard where I connected, like, HubSpot data to Google Analytics and a whole bunch of other things where I could just, like, pull up a report and say, like, "People who landed on this blog post resulted in this amount of pipeline."
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Oh, I love that. And it was, like, so satisfying to just see that, like, you know, some blog posts that we wrote two years ago for, like, $1,000 with a freelance writer generated, like, $200,000 of pipeline.
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You're like, "Yes, I did it." So that was really exciting. I'll share more about that later in the future. Okay. Yeah, I was gonna ask. Please tell us more. Like, did you vibe code it? Where is it? Okay.
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Not this episode. I'm sorry, listeners. What a tease. What a tease. Yeah, join Superpath Pro to find out. There we go. Okay.
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[laughs] Well, a- as, as become kind of tradition in 2026, we're gonna do a brief discussion on this article that I recently published on the Superpath blog.
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And just a disclaimer, all of my articles on the Superpath blog have been super nostalgic, and I promise this is the last one that feels that way. The rest are gonna be, like, a little more- I don't believe you.
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[laughs] Okay, yeah. Well, you know what? You can... When you edit the next one, you can, [laughs] you can just do, like- I'll remind you.
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Yeah, highlight the entire article and just say, "Stop," in your comment, and then I'll know. But one of the things I've been thinking about so much at reforge and now at Miro is just, like, what are the...
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You know, like, since the last time I was in-house, marketing is just so different. Like, even though the end goal is the same, like, the, what goes into it and the skills that you rely on are just so different.
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So, like, this is s- somewhat, like, a personal reflection and some reminders to myself. But I also find that, like, that type of thinking tends to make for good blog posts as well.
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So if you guys are up for it, I would love to just, like, chat through these three points and get your take on them.
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The first is that writing is a less commercially viable skill than it used to be, and this is, to me, just, like, the most challenging thing to accept about all of the many changes happening in marketing right now.
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And upon reflection, the thing I kinda zeroed in on was that B2B SaaS companies, while they have invested and enjoyed success because of content marketing, they never really cared about the craft of writing.
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They really only cared about the output of it. And so now that there's a new, cheaper way to get the output, that's what they want. Uh, you know, I mean, assuming it's a reasonable proxy for the old way of doing things.
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And I think that's, in some ways, sort of a healthy reminder that that was the thing before and is still the thing now. To me, the h- like I said, the hard part is, like, I like writing. I enjoy the craft of it.
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And, like, I think a lot of content folks really enjoyed working in this space for a long time because it was a place where they could flex their creative muscles, enjoy this thing that they, you know, like all writers, toil and struggle, but it's also satisfying.
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You sort of... That being the basis of your day-to-day work is really satisfying, and that's a hard thing to let go of. Uh, you know, so to speak. I'm being a little bit dramatic.
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But I'm curious from both of your perspectives, what do you think about that? Like, do you agree, first of all, that writing is less commercially viable, and, like, how do you feel about it? No. Good.
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[laughs] Okay, let's go. [laughs] I think writing, like, good writing is always going to be valuable. I mean, yes, obviously I'm biased, for sure. But I
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am proud of, like, the tone of voice that I've evolved, and I think that if you haven't figured that out from, like, a writing perspective, it's what we always talk about when it comes to AI, right?
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It's like the AI outputs are only going to be as good as the inputs that you put into it. I think that was too many into's and inputs, but you know what I'm trying to say.
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And I think that that comes from, like, knowing what good writing is, recognizing good writing, and having the skill set. And there's all this conversation about, like, knowing taste and knowing judgment.
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I still feel like that goes hand in hand with writing. And I can tell, you know, when someone's a good writer and when someone is a bad writer.
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It is true that AI makes it, can make it easier for a crappy writer to be a better writer, but I don't necessarily think that it's gonna make, you know, something that...
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Uh, I don't, I still don't think it, it produces, like, the caliber that, I don't know, I hold myself accountable to and that I would want the company that, you know, I'm leading content for to hold themselves accountable to as well.
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This is why we like having you, Chloe. [laughs] Because I'm guessing Eric has a different opinion that's probably more AI-centric. No, I, no, I'm... I mean, there's multiple marketing sides of me.
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Like, look at the Superpath newsletter that I write.
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I'm pretty much paid to just, like, have musings and, you know, riff what's top of my mind every week, and I think the writing style is part of the value I'm providing there and just being, like, personable and relatable and all these things.
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And that's, like, commercially viable for Superpath to have that kind of writing in terms of, like, a funnel into our community and things like that.
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But my, I got my start in writing by just writing SEO posts, like, all day, every day for two years, where-You know, the goal was like write three landing pages per day, and that was my whole job, and so like that job I don't think is going to exist anymore.
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So I think like the word writing, I think Chloe pulled out the word writing means a lot of things to a lot of different people, and so like the physical act of putting 2,000 words on a page, like I don't think that is as a, as a viable skill as it was before.
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I also think like less commercially viable. The word less is like, is it 10% less or [chuckles] is it 80%? Mm-hmm.
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Like, like if you read that headline as is, it, it doesn't mean that like writing as a skill is going away.
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But I do think that you could have a full-time job just writing blog posts before, and the reality is now that there is some expectation that you will also probably be building some AI workflows and things like that, and I know, I know we're coming to that in your next point.
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But I, I do think it's like if there is a pie of the work to be done, the writing piece is like a smaller piece of the pie, right? Yeah.
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But I do think, I do think like research and taste and all those things that Chloe brought up, like if you bucket those under writing as a skill, then like absolutely all those things are still commercially viable.
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But just like maybe quantity of output is less viable than it used to be. I think you've like very accurately captured what I was trying to say. [chuckles] Like I think back to like I think it was 20
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thir- 2013 or 2014, I got this job at Vero, which is like a tiny little startup that did transactional email, and like my job was...
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I think my title was content, content manager or content creator, so all I did was write basically. You know? And it was like they would pay me to write, and like a lot of that was like I would unplug, you know?
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It's almost [chuckles] like you could sort of turn off your internet and have some music going and just write. Like, that just doesn't, that job doesn't exist anymore.
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Like, say w- I was to like start that exact same job with the same goal, the same end goal today, there's no way.
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Like, I would be t- probably trying to build a system that would help facilitate content creation and then like applying my taste and style to that, but not spending hours and hours in a Google Doc tweaking things and moving sentences around and cutting and all that, which I completely appreciate from the commercial perspective.
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Like, that's what the company wants. I just feel a bit sad that I can't, I likely could not get paid at least like a living wage to just toil in the doc, which is a thing I really love doing. I think that's fair.
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I was just gonna ask, like what's the positive flip side to that for you? 'Cause I don't, [chuckles] I don't want this to be like Jimmy is sad about three, all, all these things about his job.
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Is that all of my podcast that I was just sad? [chuckles] Yeah. So like what is the positive flip side for you if like writing is less of the job? Like, w- what does that unlock for you that's exciting?
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Yeah, that's, I think that's a really interesting question. Maybe that is the next question, though. Like, you, you talked about the evolving skill set, so maybe we get into that. Yes. Why don't we do that?
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So the second thing on this list of things that are changing is that the marketing skill set has evolved to include a bunch of things that marketers have not typically been asked to do previously, and I think that kind of gets into this question, like you said, Eric.
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Like, there was a time probably, probably during my Vero years, so this is...
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Yeah, we're going back like 12, 12-ish years to that point where I think a lot of writers, certainly myself included, have a kind of a builder's mindset as well.
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Like, in my mind, writing is a form of building, so is creating a spreadsheet and doing some analysis.
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Then came no code and making like a fancy air table to use as a content calendar with some automations built in, and then now the version of that is AI and the subcategories of that, vibe coding, workflow automation, et cetera.
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Like, to me, all those things are building, and so I get to still spend a lot of time building. It's just maybe a little less
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specific to sitting in a Google Doc building, and it's more like thinking about a system and trying to create something that will run on its own. So, like, I'm actually not saying that work is less satisfying.
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I actually think that- Mm...
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exploring AI and automation and building these systems and the things that so many people are doing right now is awesome, and it's new for everybody, so the learning curve is somewhat steep, but we're all kind of in the relat- like relatively the same place on that curve also.
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You know, with some exceptions, of course. Some people are, like, killing it, way ahead, but I like it. I enjoy it.
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Like, the thought of having, like, a problem and then, like, trying to go find a solution in Claude is, I think that's fun. Chloe, what do you think? I mean, I use AI the least out of this group, right?
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Like, we've established that time and time again. I am not the tinkering kind. I am impatient and like things to get done and move on, so
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that would not build me joy or would not, you know, create joy for me personally.
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But I do think, I mean, content as a whole, and I think this, we've talked about this before, it is a very wide definition of, like, what content is supposed to entail, and this actually gets back to your first point where it's, like, writing, and if your only job on paper is writing, say, like, landing pages and emails, I agree with you that, like, that's probably not gonna be a defined job, right?
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Like, you're always gonna be adding more to it. I do wonder, like, how fair that is in a new era of productivity, and again, it gets back to the conversation of just because you can doesn't mean that you should.
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So I don't know. Those are just a couple things. Yeah. And w- what's fun for me, uh, is that, like, we're all beginners now constantly [chuckles] like in...
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I mean, we, we have, like, our career experience to fall back on, but, like, what tactics work or what... tools you have available, all these things.
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Like, I used to join a company, your first 90 days would be really exciting on the job, like figuring it all out, and then you'd kinda solve the puzzle, and then it was just like y- okay, you build the machine, and then you let the machine run.
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And there was some experimentation here and there, but for the most part, you'd, like, solve your job, and then it would get boring unless you got promoted and things like that.
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But I [chuckles] find now that, like, I'm constantly on this learner's treadmill and, like, I'm having to maintain a beginner's mindset at all times of what works, what doesn't work, what should I be working on, what should I not be working on.
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And so, like, to me, that's just made work more fun that, you know, let's say 70% of the pie was writing before and now it's 30% or something like that, and now my, like, strategic wheels are spinning more often, getting, like you said, getting to be a builder, experiment more, you know, dig more into reporting and my product marketing skill set.
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And, like, I think in sales enablement, like, I'm able... It's just able to unlock, like, a much wider, like, breadth of skills and also, like, where I get to spend my time.
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I find that more rewarding personally, even though, like, every once in a while I love to open the Superpath newsletter and be like, "I'm just gonna write something, like, completely, you know, dumb today that will just, like, give people a laugh."
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Do you think it's actually unlocked my ability to enjoy writing more, funny enough?
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Because I spend s- so much less of my day job just pure writing that when I get to just sit down with, like, a blank Google Doc, it's such a f- fun experience for me now 'cause it's like a throwback.
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That's interesting that you don't find it, like, daunting. You know, like, so what you're saying is it hasn't stopped you from, you know, having, like, writer's block or anything like that. And I think
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that's counter to what we hear a lot with, like, AI, right? Is that, like, it's kinda like turning off your brain and it's turning this. Like, you're...
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And I wonder if that's a forcing function of, like, your, you know, your role, like, in content, or whether, I don't know, non-marketers would feel that way as well too. Yeah.
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I mean, I, I think it's, like, working a different part of my brain. Like, that's why- Yeah... I like working in Superpath and Doc.
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And, uh, like, I, I think the more, like, breadth I get, the more it actually lets me enjoy each individual piece, which is maybe counterintuitive. You'd think it would, like, wear me out, but I- Yeah...
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I get, like, excited to jump back to the other task. I have two quick reactions to that. One is that, just a quick note on the newsletter, we get so much positive feedback on the newsletter.
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I don't think you always see the replies, Eric, but I still get... Well, I guess sh-... Since it's on Beehiiv, I don't get them anymore, but until that move, when people would reply, I would get them.
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And so many people respond and say, "I just love this newsletter. That was such a great story. Eric's the best." Like, we get a lot of that, and- They're mostly me and my family. Sounds like Eric needs a Superpath award.
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Yeah. [laughs] We can, we can Five Toe you up an, an award, Eric. [laughs] Newsletter Writer of the Month for Superpath. Yeah. [laughs] Jacket. But, like, to your point that, like, say you assist your...
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You use AI as a bit of an assist for those, like, you know, that's sort of different than the writing is less commercially viable idea.
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It's like, it's your thoughts, your ideas, like, your unique stories, and it resonates, I guess, is the point.
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The second thing is I feel like the wide T, if you're a T-shaped marketer and your horizontal axis is super wide, like, it... Yeah, I feel like it suits y- someone like you perfectly, you know?
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Like, suits your personality type, the way your brain works, and then also, like, the type of work you do. And, like, I can also appreciate that, like, it doesn't, like, apply equally to everyone based on- Mm-hmm...
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how they like to work and also just the context in which they work. I was thinking also a lot about, like, what is the new marketing skill set?
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Because I feel like it went from, like, sorta, you know, like, a handful of, like, fairly specialized roles where you might dabble in other things to, like, everyone's sort of a generalist.
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I'm exaggerating a bit, but, like, that does seem to be a trend. Maybe that corrects itself at some point as this all sorts out. But I did...
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I feel like I tried to s- think through, like, what are the patterns that I see right now related to skills?
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The one that stood out to me was that AI makes execution of basically everything easier, which means that deciding what to work on is... That on its own is an important skill. Yeah.
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I was thinking back to, like, remember when HubSpot came out with the Marketing Grader or the Website Grader tool probably 10 years ago? Mm-hmm. Oh my God, I was in that so much. Well, it was really good, right?
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And, like, I, I think I was at Animals at that time, and then, like, a bunch of our clients were like, "Oh, we wanna build something like this," and it turns out, wow, it's, like, prohibitively expensive. Now it's not.
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You can make it in, like, 30 minutes. Uh, y- you know, or whatever version of it you wanna make, you know? And I think that situation is true, like, kind of across the board.
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Like, you have so many different things that are now affordable, even easy, that you have to think twice about how you prioritize your work, and it gets a lot more difficult to stay focused, as we discussed in the shiny object episode recently.
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So I think that is an emerging skill that I think probably wasn't as pressing but is now very top of mind.
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And then two other just quicker ones are, at the moment, I sense that technical skills have become a bit more valuable than creative skills, although I don't know that will last.
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Like, I think companies are looking for people who are, like, super advanced in their AI skills, and they're less interested in creativity. Again, I don't know that's a trend that's gonna go on forever.
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And then another one that I think is also probably short term is scale. Like, I just hear so many people emphasizing the potential of scaling up a marketing program with fewer people. And- Yeah... so one of the thing...
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One of the sort of skills you have to develop is, like, well, how do you do more as a single person?
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I feel like there's always some, like, capitalistic pressure to, like, squeeze more out of each individual, but, like- Mm-hmm... more with less has been a theme of the last few years for sure.
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But again, I won't be too surprised if we revisit that and the last idea, I don't know, two, three years from now and the pendulum has swung or is swinging back in the other direction. Any reactions to any of that?
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Chloe, I'm curious how you react to that, 'cause, like, a lot of those things describe me, but that's not every content marketer. There's- Yeah...
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like Jimmy said, there's a, a bunch of different sort of, like, archetypes of content marketer.
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And so, like, f- for someone who's maybe, like, more on the creativeSide, like how is that landing with you and like maybe what skills have you felt are changing or developing in your world?
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Well, what's interesting is I had a conversation with my boss like years ago, and someone called me a creative in a meeting, and he told me about it and he's like, "You know, do you think you're creative?"
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And I was like, "Yeah, I can be creative." And he's like, "'Cause I answered and I said, 'No, she's not a creative, she's a strategist.'" And I was like, "Well, why can't I be both?" And like,
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so I actually don't consider myself to be the most creative person. It actually takes more for me to get to that mode than it does for me to be in strategy business impact, like analysis mode.
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That's just like the way that I'm wired- Totally. Right. Yeah... and the way I've wired my career. But what I do think is interesting is that content is one of these like weird things. I mean, maybe it's not.
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I just obviously haven't looked at a bunch of other job functions, but I don't necessarily think that it...
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content is headed to a more generalist way when you look at the job descriptions and the things that are out there, because we're seeing, you know, we talked about this before, like the boom of storytelling and like really specialized roles that's like...
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And granted, they're in larger companies. I absolutely think this is a company size thing.
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But you're seeing really specific roles for really specific things like executive content, like thought leadership streams, right?
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Like, I don't know how long those are gonna happen, but I also don't know if in a year from now, and I think we talked about this too, where it's like, you know, you have this like AI, like content engineer sort of thing, and you're the one that's managing the workflows and creating it and setting it up.
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I don't necessarily know if that's gonna be a specific position or if that's gonna become more of like a consultant-led field.
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And then the last thing I'll say that I think is just interesting is when we talk about the do more with less, it makes me wanna bang my head against my desk. But you're completely right that that's been the trend.
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But the other thing that I'm also seeing is CMOs are being tasked with that in the sense of, oh, well, don't think about how you would run a team. Think about how you would run a team of agents.
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So I don't know if I love that that's where the world is going. But yeah, I mean, running a team of bots is gonna be wildly different than running a team of humans that have thoughts and feelings in their own minds.
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Like, so I don't know. I have... I'm curious what the world has o- in store for all of us. [chuckles] I feel like so much of this is influenced by LinkedIn chatter. You know what I mean?
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Like, I also, like I just see posts every five seconds about like the future is managing agents and, you know, the people who are gonna succeed have these skills, and like everyone's jobs are about to be like absolutely blown up by agents and blah, blah, blah.
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And I'm not to- one, I'm just not totally sold, and two, LinkedIn is so performative that it's hard to suss out like is anyone sharing like helpful stuff or is it just, is everything just algorithm bait?
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You know what I mean? That gets a bit to my next point. But before we jump to that, Eric, do you have any other thoughts on this second idea of the skill set? No.
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Just thanks, Chloe, for sharing your perspective, and excited to get to point number three. [laughs] Okay. I just can't wait. Point number three, your reputation is now your primary career asset.
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And I think the change here is that it used to be easier to let people know how good you were at marketing, and now it's harder. And I think the change is at least, uh, well, for content marketers specifically.
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I can't speak for all marketers 'cause maybe, you know, maybe PPC marketers have always had this problem. I'm not... I don't really know.
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But for content marketers, you could basically prove yourself by writing and having a byline and attracting people to read those articles and then sharing a link.
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You know, you apply for something, you share a link and say, "Oh, this article got X number of page views," or whatever.
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I mean, it was, you know, you could sort of build a really good portfolio over time of good work, and it's all publicly available with your name on it.
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I think that was a super important thing, and still is, about content marketing. And like for my own career, like that was huge.
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Like that was really like the thing that got me from zero to one, was just having my name attached to stuff that performed well.
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And now I just feel like it's so much harder to assess whether or not someone is a good content marketer. Like, how do you-- Like I don't really know how to assess AI fluency, and I know that there's
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ways to do it, like Zapier. Wade Foster, the CEO of Zapier, has tweeted a ton about how they're assessing AI fluency in hiring and for performance reviews, and like I kinda get it.
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I'm glad I'm not trying to do that right now 'cause it sounds really difficult. And also like, is that the right thing to assess? I do- I don't know. Uh, probably not.
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The thing it, it sort of brought me back to was the way that you work with people, the way that you communicate with them, whether or not you can build trust with the people you work with.
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Like, these are the things that go into your reputation, and like that is the number one thing that I want to have right now is a reputation of just being like reliable, trustworthy, good to work with because there's so much else floating around out there that is maybe noise and maybe not.
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Like if we're still sorting that out, I think. But your reputation stays with you regardless of all these other changes. I'd add a fourth thing to that. Yeah, tell me please. Which is so self-serving, but it's so true.
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Like I think your reputation around those areas, being trustworthy, reliable, forget the third one you said, but like those are really important. But I also wanna be known for being good at what I do. Okay. Yes.
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Like y- meaning like your peers and coworkers are like, "Oh, Chloe knows her shit." Yeah. Yeah.
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'Cause I think that goes hand in hand with like how you build trust is actually doing the things, you know, and, and becoming kind of like an expert in your own lane as much as you possibly can.
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And part of that is kind of building, I guess, your own-Brand expertise, domain, whatever you want to call it, like within your organization.
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But I think that's something you also want to be doing like externally, which is why I think this whole building your brand online and LinkedIn, which we all used to think was so creepy and weird and strange, is now like, "Oh my God, I haven't posted on LinkedIn in a week.
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What is happening with me?" Right. You know, which is kind of ridiculous navel-gazing, but is kind of the truth of the matter. [laughs] Yeah, and I'll throw in another variable too.
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Like, we probably all got started in our careers in an office. You were hired locally where the demand pool was small. Like now, like during COVID, everything went remote. There's like zero interest desert period.
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All these SaaS companies had a ton of money. All these freelance writers from all over the world popped up, and now if you post that you have a free...
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like a writing gig on LinkedIn available, you're gonna get 3,000 applications- Oh, God, yeah... within 24 hours. [laughs] And like, so, and that's also the reality that everyone is dealing with.
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Like, it's difficult to hire. It's difficult to be hired.
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So I don't have an answer for this, but it has come up a lot in Superpath too, where people say like, "Yeah, I'm applying to a job where they want me to be AI forward. Like, what should my portfolio look like?
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I don't even know. Like, should I post Claude skills I've built, and should I..." Like, and I do think that's probably one solution.
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Like if you, in the case of an AI forward role, like have more like a project-based portfolio.
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I mean, even in the past, if you had a writing portfolio, it was better to say, "I wrote this thing, it achieved these results.
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Like, here was my process," or something like that, something that wasn't just a link and some writing. But that problem is only more challenging now.
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Totally agree that like, yeah, if someone hands you a piece of writing as a finished product, it's impossible to know like what went into that and even like did this... If you knew something amazing in 30 seconds, great.
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Maybe. [laughs] Like, but maybe- Yeah... you had an amazing editor. Maybe you had... Like, I need to know the steps now. It's just so, it's like a black box now. Yeah. For sure.
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I guess the way I combat that though is if I'm actually like interviewing and looking at people for some sort of writing heavy position or editing heavy position, I always ask them more about their actual process, and that's where I would talk about like the AI workflow- Mm-hmm...
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part of it, I guess, if I were interviewing. 'Cause if your process takes you three seconds to explain, then the output of it probably isn't gonna be that great, right? So I don't know. I think that's an interesting one.
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Yeah. I will say too, I even had this problem pre-AI. When I joined Doc and I was looking for freelance writers, I s- took
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having worked for like a large marketing or like a well-known SaaS company as like an indicator of quality for freelance writers. Like they said, "Oh, I worked..."
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Like I'm not gonna name drop 'cause I don't wanna insult those companies. But someone would say, "I worked for this really big brand you know," and then I would say, "Great, you're hired." And then- [laughs]...
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as it turns out, like those companies have very big marketing teams with lots of editing layers, and the output is always gonna be good at those companies, even if the input from the writer wasn't great.
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And I think th- that problem is only magnified by AI in that like I don't know what your inputs are. And so I learned very quickly that the brand names on your portfolio were not an- actually an indicator of quality.
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Sometimes it was even the opposite. And so yeah, that's another thing as someone who's hiring, that it gets harder and harder to know if someone's good at writing or not, or like hires a good content marketer.
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If you're hiring for writing or editing, I'm probably gonna get pitchforks thrown at me for this, but like have a test- Yeah... in your interview process.
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I know everyone's applying to hundreds and hundreds of jobs, but like you have to be able to assess that. You have to.
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I have a quick thought on that, that is related to this point, which is when I was running the Superpath Marketplace, like I did a...
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I went through a period where I did a ton of outbound to try to bring on new customers, because every SaaS company worked with freelancers, and the only way I ever saw people hiring those freelancers was basically posting on LinkedIn.
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So like part of the idea was like, oh, well we can sort of vet people from the community, and then we'll match them up.
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I would say, if I'm being honest, the marketplace never really turned into what I hoped it would become, and I actually think part of the reason why is that once people find good freelancers, they kind of bring them around from job to job- Mm-hmm...
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from project to project. I do that too. Yeah, like- Yeah...
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if Miro says, "Hey, we need someone to write a newsletter," I'm gonna say, uh, the first thing I'm gonna do is shoot Eric a note and be like, "Hey, Eric, you wanna write a newsletter? 'Cause you're gonna-" Yeah.
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Like, I have a ton of trust that you'll do it well because of our experience together- Mm-hmm... versus like going to a marketplace or posting on LinkedIn and dealing with 3,000 applications and s- you know.
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And like same with a bunch of other marketing projects, is like i- kind of a roster of people that I've gotten to know over my career that I would happily work with again, and how much easier is it to just go straight to them?
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So anyways, it sort of feeds into the idea of like your reputation, being easy to work with- Totally, yeah... all that. It's all great.
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And I wonder if kind of your point, Eric, about kind of the globalization of these roles and these skill sets may make people lean even harder on their own network of people that they have worked with and trust as a go-to.
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Totally. You know? Full circle why joining a network is so important. [laughs] Oh, exactly. So- Like Superpath Pro. Yeah. [laughs] But it's so true.
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No, I have a, like this l- friend locally, Mike, who I worked with at my f- first job here in town in Nanaimo, and every company I've worked at since, I hire him for just like an hourly rate to just odd jobs.
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He's just like the guy I know I can send any random SEO content work to, just like miscellaneous tasks that I need someone to spend three hours on that I don't have time on.
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And like every single workplace I've been to, I've hired him again. And so like I think if you can just become someone's go-to person, like that's such a valuable resource.
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And then f- vice versa, like if you're the person hiring, like build your team and keep those people. Yeah. Love it. I apologize, guys. I have to take a sick dog to the vet, so- Wow...
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it's not like a great- Is that an expression?... segue. Yeah. [laughs] Hope your pup feels better. [laughs] Yeah. It's fun to do this.
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Like now that we do this once a month, I just like, I look forward to it so much 'cause it's fun to catch up with you guys and chat about all the stuff.
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I find it to be- Well, it's good 'cause we started this conversation talking about you being sad, so I'm glad that we've ended on a cheerful- Yeah... positive note. Jimmy is smiling for the record. Yes. He is.
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No more sad blog posts. With a very handsome mustache. If you... I won't paint more of a picture than that. You'll have to, uh- I am the only one on this call without a mustache. How sad. [laughs] Okay.
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Well, mine's connected to a beard. Okay. [laughs] We're holding Jimmy back from a very important vet appointment to talk about beards and mustaches. Quick plug for Superpath Pro. 30-day free trial. Build your network.
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Also, commiserate with peers who are all experiencing very similar things in their own careers right now. Also, the programming Alex has been putting out is just insane lately. It's...
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There's so much good stuff happening. Absolutely. Project Net. And like when you get the list of stuff happening each week, I see it and I'm like, "Dang, that's a busy... There's a lot."
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There's so many opportunities to learn, participate, be a fly on the wall, meet people. It's awesome. So superpath.co for all of that. Eric, Chloe, as always, it's great to chat, and we'll see you next time. Sounds good.
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Bye. See you guys. [outro music]
