Confirming Todd Blanche as Attorney General

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This week on Conservative Crossroads, should the Senate confirm Attorney
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General nominee Todd Blanche. Mike Fragoso says yes, Andrew McCarthy
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says no. The confirmation of Todd Blanche coming up on
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Conservative Crossroads now. Welcome back to Conservative Crossroads, the program
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where conservatives lean into their differences rather than deny them.
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I'm Henry Olson, senior fellow at the Ethics and Public
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Policy and your host for this program. This week, we'll
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be talking about the nomination of Todd Blanche to become
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permanent Attorney General of the United States. That's controversial because
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in part of mister Blanche's prior role as President Trump's
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personal attorney prior to the time when he was sent
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back to the White House after the twenty twenty four election.
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Arguing in favor of mister Blanche's confirmation is Mike Fragoso,
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a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Arguing
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against the confirmation is Andrew McCarthy, former prosecutor Southern District
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of New York. Each person will have five minutes to
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make opening statements, followed by forty minutes of mutual question
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and answering. We will then have two minutes in reverse
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order to have closing statements ending our discussion. Because this
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is a clear yes, no debate topic or discussion topic,
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I've asked that Mike start off by arguing why Bland
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should be confirmed. Mike, You're out.
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Thanks Henry, thanks for having me on. Thanks Andy for
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joining me to this discussion. It's obviously very timely. So
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I'm here to support the idea that Todd Bland should
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be confirmed by the United States Senate to be Attorney
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General of the United States. And I think it's a
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question sort of how a Republican senator should think about this.
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First question of background.
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Todd Blanche is obviously currently the acting Attorney General of
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the United States. He was confirmed as DAG the Deputy
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Attorney General of the United States last year. His background
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is perfectly normal. He clerked for Joe Bianco and Denny
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Chin in the New York District Courts. He was in
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a USA and the most prestigious and persistently troublesome district
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of the United Southern District of New York. He was
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a supervisory AUSA there. He has white collar experience and
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Ken Walader and Davis Polk. In other words, he's not
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Matt Gates, so he clears that threshold. Then you have
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to deal with the Department of Justice. The Department of
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Justice is, you know, in a tough position these days.
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That's sort of to be expected in a Trump administration.
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The guy simply doesn't like the usual way that the
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Department of Justice works. He doesn't like being told no
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by his lawyers. He doesn't really have any time for
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the idea of sort of Jay independence, which I don't
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necessarily disagree with. He thinks, with some justification that the
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Department spent eight years in the business of ruining his life.
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So you have a president that doesn't like the Department
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DOJE in many ways compounded this problem. It was in
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many ways a well intentioned project. But at the Department
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they set up incentives a year or so ago that
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pushed out all these sort of experienced and competent senior
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lawyers who know how to follow orders and keep lower
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level careers in line. They're not there anymore for the
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most part, and so the antibureaucratic chemo killed out at
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killed off a lot of functioning organs over at the department.
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So those are the challenges of faces. Nevertheless, I think
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with those challenges in place, the Department, under Blanche's stewardship,
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has been doing very good work. A majority of Senate
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Republicans presumably want the Department of Justice to do Republican things,
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and that is what it has been doing. The urban
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murder rate is probably the lowest it's been since nineteen ninety.
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It's ground zero. The Department of Justice for making sure
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that immigration reforms actually happen, it's been doing that effectively,
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especially given the judicial resistance they've faced. The border simply
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isn't a problem anymore, and the DOJ side of the
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enforcement picture is a big part of that. Just today
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they got two big immigration wins at the Supreme Court.
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The Department's doing great work while being understaffed to help
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achieve energy dominance. Under Blanche's leadership, they've been very active
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against climate lawfare. They've found great briefs in the Plaque
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Mines Parish case, in the Sun Court case at the
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Supreme Court, they preemptively sued states like Hawaii and Michigan
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for their lawfare schemes, and they're getting involved elsewhere throughout
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the country. Judicial resistance that they faced has been off
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the charge. As I mentioned, Nevertheless, DOJ has, as I
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understand it, fifty six percent win rate for getting stays
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in the courts of appeals. If you include the court
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after they've lost at the Court of Appeals, it's up
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to sixty three percent. When you consider that these lawsuits
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are all brought in pretty far left districts, that really
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gets you somewhere. So they're fighting reverse discrimination DEI very effectively.
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They're doing great work on judicial nominations and other words.
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The vast majority of what the Department is doing, they
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are doing well. And this is the sort of thing
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that Republican senators want. So if you're a Republican senator,
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the question you need to ask is Blanche compared to
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what that's When I was working for Leader McConnel, Jorge
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Muchazy told me once that's the most important question you
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always have to ask.
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I think he's right.
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You're not going to get a Bill Barr or a
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Mike Muckazy waiting in the wings to save them from Blanche.
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Even if they don't like some of the stuff that
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the Department is doing, such as the Obama Biden's Style
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Weaponization Fund, or some of the prosecutions that they've been
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up to the fact of the matter is that the
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president will get somebody who's going to be doing that
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one percent of things that they don't like one way
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or the other. He now knows how to run the department,
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how to get his person in the department. What do
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you do about that other ninety nine percent that the
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Republicans and the Senate support. I think that Blanche has
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shown that he's very good at that other ninety nine
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percent and would continue to be very good at doing
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that other ninety nine percent. And so since Republican Senators
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can't stop that one percent with this vote on Todd Blanche,
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they should focus on that ninety nine percent and having
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the Department of Justice in capable, steady hands.
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And I think that's what Blanche would provide.
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Andy, you're well, you know, there's a lot that Mike
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said that I agree with in terms of what we
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would expect out of a good justice department. And I
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have to say I applaud the emphasis on violent crime.
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When I was a prosecutor first in the early nineteen eighties,
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one of the important things that Rudy Giuliani brought to
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the Southern District of New York very much encouraged by
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the Reggae administration was to prioritize what the federal government
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could bring to bear on what was the most important
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problem in New York and actually nationally what was at
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the time the most important problem, which was violent crime.
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I think Mike is completely right about the need to
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prioritize immigration enforcement, and I applaud the Justice Department for
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doing that.
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I applaud a number of.
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Things that they've done to the extent that it would
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be what one would expect from a normal Republican led
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Justice Department. Where I bought company is I think in
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two places. One, I think my percentages of the good
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versus the bad are a little bit skewed to say that,
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you know, ninety nine percent of what the Justice Department
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is doing is just peachy, and there's this teeny tiny
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one percent that's just a little bit alarming. I don't
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think is a fair representation of what's happened here. We've
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had a Justice Department from day one of this administration,
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and Blanche has been a leader in implementing this who
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basically have had the mission of discrediting everything that was
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done under the Biden administration and discrediting the prosecutions of Trump,
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even to the extent that they involved serious misconduct, and
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just dismissing them as if they were nothing. The Justice
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Department has weaponized its processes against the president's enemies in
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a very public, notorio an unabashed way. I think I
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was probably as vehement a critic as there was of
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the lawfair that was practiced under the Obama administration and
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under the Biden administration, and I'm simply not going to
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take a different position because we now have a republican administration. Moreover,
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what I would say about that is, at least with
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respect to Obama and Biden, when they practiced law fair,
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they had the good taste to pretend that they weren't
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doing it, and it was dishonest, and it was disingenuous,
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and it was condemnable in many ways. But at least
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they understood that it was wrong, and therefore they had
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to veil it as if it wasn't actually happening. In
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what we have in this administration is not only lawfair,
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but the president wants you to know that it's law fair,
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and that he's coming for his enemies between the eyes
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and as a top official the Justice Department, you have
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a choice. You can either be the one who tries
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to stop that and honorably resign if you can't, or
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you can aid in a bet it. Todd Blanche has
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chosen to aid in a bet it. It does my
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heart no good to say that I came into when
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the administration came in. I actually was quite happy to
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see that Blanche had been placed in an important spot.
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I don't think it's a big deal as long as
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he follows the conflict of interests.
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Protocols.
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I don't think it's a big deal that Blanche was
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the president's personal lawyer. And I thought that the asset
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that he would bring to the equation was that Pam Bondy,
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who I also had hoped for at the beginning, was
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a novice when it came to the Justice Department, which
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is a very insular institution compared to other government institutions
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and even other prosecutorial institution across institutions across the country.
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And I thought that somebody who wasn't familiar with the
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department and who didn't know where all the levers were
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would be aided greatly by somebody like Todd who has
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experienced with the Justice Department. It just hasn't worked out
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the way that I hoped it would work out. I'd
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say one final thing, since my time is winding down,
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I do agree with Mike that the question does come
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down to what does a senator think about all this?
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How should a senator think about his role? I think
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the Senate has an obligation to discipline the Justice Department,
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to discipline the executive when it acts lawlessly. And we're
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not going to impeach the president. But these kinds of
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appointments are an opportunity to try to bend the administration
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into lawful conduct.
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Thank you, Andy, who wants to start with the questioning?
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Because Andy, I've got a question for you on that
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last point, if you don't mind, sure, I take your
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point that you see this as a way to discipline
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the White House. I guess, perhaps coming from my time
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in the Senate, how does it discipline him if he's
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going to get what he wants one way or the other. Right, So,
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if Blenche doesn't get confirmed, he'll stay as Attorney General,
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most likely potentially for the duration of the administration, unless
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President Trump decides that he wants you know, ed Martin
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thearetstad or something. What practical consequence in terms of discipline,
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the disciplining the administration.
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Does this have, Mike.
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I think that we've seen a number of occasions over
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the last eighteen months or close to two years, whatever
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it's been, where when the administration gets blowback, it actually
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does amend its behavior. And I agree with your overarching
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point that feudal gestures are to be avoided because they're
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just a waste of time and they don't advance the
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ball up the field.
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I wrote a book about impeachment back.
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In twenty fourteen, and the argument that I made in
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the book, which I think is equally relevant here, is
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that whether you have impeachable offenses or not, or whether
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you should proceed on impeachable offenses or not, comes down
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to two things. One is the seriousness, the egregious nature
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of the misconduct. And while you know, I appreciate the
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old Gerald Ford observation that an impeachable offense is whatever
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the House of Representatives decides in impeachable offenses, I think
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that we can objectively say that there are certain abuses
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of power which rise to the level of something that's impeachable.
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But the other consideration that has to be taken into
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account is the likelihood of removal of the president. And
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to my mind, if you don't have a political case
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where you get support for removing a president that would
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cut across partisan lines and ideological lines, then it's a
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mistake to start the machinery of impeachment in the first place,
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because it takes the country in a dark place and
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to no good end, because at the end you not
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only don't get the president removed, you probably encourage him
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in his lawlessness by having tried to take a shot
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at him and missed. So I'm not insensitive to your
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point that you want to avoid things that actually won't
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work in terms of addressing misconduct. But there are a
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range of things that the Senate can do and that
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Congress can do short of impeachment, and that it should
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do when they're are abuses of power. And I think
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if you tell the president that we're not going to
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fill these positions, there's a good chance that he'll change.
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His behavior will never be perfect because Trump is Trump.
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But I simply don't accept the proposition that because Trump
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is lawless, you were more diplomatic about it.
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But I'll just say what I think it is.
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I think using the Justice Department as an offensive weapon
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against one's political enemies is a lawless thing to do,
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and it's an impeachable thing to do.
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I think that the corrective here for that is.
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To take the opportunities that Congress does have and that
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the Senate does have with things that they can accomplish
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that have a chance to bend that behavior into something
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that's more lawful. And I think if you tell the
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President we're not going to fill your positions, we're not
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going to confirm your nominees, you at least have a
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chance of bending him into lawful behavior.
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Doesn't mean it'll work. It may not work.
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On the other hand, I think lawfair is probably the
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reason that Trump is in office to begin with, and
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there's a political consequence to this that gets carried along
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as well, and I anticipate that largely because of the
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way the Justice Department has abused its power over the
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last eighteen months. This is going to be a major
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issue in the election to come, and I don't think
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the public likes law fair. Again, I think Trump is
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president because the public doesn't like lawfair, and they're not
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going to like it anymore when it's committed by Trump
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in a way that's very unabashed and open and notorious,
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almost to the point where you're just convinced that he
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absolutely wants his enemies to know he's coming for them.
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And that part of the reason I can't get comfortable
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with Todd as Attorney General is if I'm a senator
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and I vote to appoint him at this point on
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this record, it's like I'm endorsing the behavior that's gone
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on for the last eighteen months, and I don't see
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how a senator can do that.
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I guess my concern to the initial point is I
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just don't see evidence that stopping this would actually change
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Trump's behavior. So I think at the end of the day,
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he wants people in these roles that he thinks will
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do what he wants to do, and the prestige of
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whether this person is Senate confirmed, I think that would
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actually provide some protections to Blanche in terms of breathing room,
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because if after Blanche's Senate confirmed, the President tries to
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get rid of him, he will have people in his
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ear saying, you know, it's a real pain in the
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neck to get a new person to ask to go
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through the Senate. It might temper the president's desire to
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fire him in the future, but as a general matter,
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I think he just wants somebody there who will do it.
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But to your point about how the Senate has been
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able to push back, I agree they have and I
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think they've been right to do it. But when they've
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done it, they have been able to detect actual leverage
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points that move the president.
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Right. So the J.
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Powell prosecutions, Tom Tillis concluded he's on the Banking Committee
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and he wanted Walsh to be Chairman of of the
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Federal Reserve, but he told the President, if he's going
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to get my vote, you got to stop that prosecution,
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and eventually did it. With the weaponization fund. They eventually,
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you know, it was a little touch and go in
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terms of the ICE funding, but that is something the
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administration desperately needed.
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And so.
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I take your point. I think I agree with you
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that when the president is exceeding his authority in the
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view of Congress, they should push back on it, and
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they should use the tools that they have. I think
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you just have to calibrate those tools to the desired end.
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And I just don't see any real reason to think
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that this is something that would actually affect the president's
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behavior or as there are specific discrete actions where I
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have no doubt that going forward for the rest of
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the year, Tom Tillis and John Cornyn are going to be,
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you know, looking to see if they have pressure points
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to stop things that they think are particularly egregious.
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Let me just say that I I read your piece,
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particularly the point that you made. You've written twice on
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this for for National Review. I don't know if you've
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written elsewhere that I that I haven't caught up with it,
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but I read your point about Tillius and the effect
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that it had on folding the investigation of the FED
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and particularly the chairman of the FED, and I emphatically
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agree with that.
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I think it's very important to have.
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That the that the tactic that the that the Senate
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uses to try to bend the executive's misbehavior or is
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commensurate with what the misbehavior is and is designed to
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cure it in a way and is designed in a
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way that you had an example, I think of Vance
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saying he was putting a hold on all of the
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US attorney the attorney appointments in order to stop the
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lawfair against Trump, and that was a mismatch between the
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tactic and the ambition of the tactics. It was also
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a problem in that the you know, the Biden Justice
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Department denied that it was involved in anything so low
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as lawfare. Can you imagine, So you know, their position
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about it was different. But I do think that we're
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not talking about blocking every confirmation. We're talking about blocking
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an attorney general confirmation. I don't I'm not persuaded by
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your contention that removal that people would be in Trump's
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ear about like how easy or hard it would be
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to remove a new attorney general, because Trump has already
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removed the attorney general.
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He had Pam Bondi in.
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He moved her out because precisely from what we can gather,
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I think there was a lot to do with the
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mishandling of Epstein. But I also think we know from
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the paper trail that Trump was not unhappy with the
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way that.
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The law fair prosecutions were going.
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There was some that he wanted that she didn't move on,
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and there was some that they did move on when
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she was there, that were such preposterous cases. The one
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was thrown out, or I guess two were thrown out.
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Comy and James were thrown out because the person that
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Trump installed to bring the cases after the career prosecutor
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told him that there was no case and didn't want
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to proceed, he brought in somebody who was under the
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statute not qualified, not because she was personally not qualified,
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but because they had already run their time under the
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acting provision. But again, you know, that's the kind of
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thing the Justice Department should have known. The cases themselves
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were preposterous. The way that they were brought were preposterous,
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But the reason they were brought was because the boss
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one of them bought brought and he was very clear
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with the Bondi about that. And then when Bondi got
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moved out, the first thing that Todd did was in
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Dyke Comy on what I think is one of the
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most preposterous cases I've ever seen that will there's not
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a chance that that case is going to get to trial. So,
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you know, I think Trump has already moved out an
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attorney general. He thinks it was pretty easy to do.
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You know, you mentioned in some of the stuff that
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you that you've written that you know, if Todd gets
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you know, Todd gets the job, he's going to have
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to be looking over his shoulder because this one or
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that one might, you know, try to supplant him.
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I don't think.
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I think we've seen for eighteen months to two years
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or whatever it is, that that, you know, Blanche's incentive
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is to do what Trump tells him to do. I
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don't see how that's going to change one way or
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the other, whether he gets whether he's the acting attorney
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General or whether he gets certified is the full fledged
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attorney general. I just don't see it changing.
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So I think there's probably a subtle difference between Blanche
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and Bondi on that last point, and that my strong
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suspicion is that Blanche doesn't take part of the problem
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with Bondi is that she was taking orders directly from
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the President that he accidentally put on Twitter once, remember,
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because he didn't think she was doing enough. I think
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Blanche has avoided a lot of that by simply using
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his relationship with the President to sort of understand what
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the president wants and sort of affirmatively go ahead with that,
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maybe not necessarily at the president's direction, which there are
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problems with it in so far as those things aren't great,
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But at the same time, it's you know, if anything
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a little bit closer to the old Democrat style law
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fair hipocrisy right, where you're not necessarily we're not having
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the I don't think with Blanche you have the spectacle
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of the President telling him you have to go prosecute
401
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:33.960
these people, much like how Merrick Garland understood who he
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00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.200
was supposed to prosecute. I think Blanche is more sufficiently
403
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sophisticated to see that and know that.
404
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Now.
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I agree to you, I don't love that. I didn't
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like it at all when the Democrats did it. I
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don't like it when Republicans do it. I don't really
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see a solution to the bigger problem, which is something
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we can discuss, and that's an issue. But I think
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that makes him a little bit different from Bondi in
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that guard And again I do think that is a
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very small percentage what the Department's actually up to. As
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to Bondi, yes, the President did get rid of her.
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She lasted a decent while she also had problems that
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I think Blanche doesn't seem to have, where everything I
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had heard was that part of why she was so
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embattled is a problem that is kind of unique to
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this administration, whereby lots of people of the President's phone number,
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and if she wasn't doing what he wanted, there were
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people in the building who would call him and say,
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you know, the Attorney General isn't doing what I want
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her to do. And I don't see that as much
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happening with Blanche. I mean, reading the papers, it seems
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like something like that probably happened with Ed Martin on
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the weaponization the Weaponization Working Group, which I know National
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00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:56.599
Review wrote about, which I have a slightly different take
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on it. It always struck me as a bit of a
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rubber room in which to put the people that the
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President wanted to be doing this weaponization stuff so that
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they're not really infecting real ODAG behavior. And even that,
431
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it seems, was not sufficient for Martin, who, again according
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00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:16.240
to reports, was complaining about how Blanche wasn't going after
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the president's enemies enough, and he wound up getting shifted
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00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:22.559
out of there and putting the DCUSAO or whatever. So
435
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.000
it seems that that was a problem that Bondi had
436
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that it seems that Blanche has a better handle on
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which is a.
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00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.000
Good thing.
439
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:35.359
As to the breathing room of being an actual US attorney.
440
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I think part of My thinking here is also probably
441
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just colored by my time in the last administration. I
442
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.960
was there for Sessions, Whittaker, and Barr, and they were
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all very well meaning, good public servants, and they all
444
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:53.279
had a very different time of it. With Sessions, he
445
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.240
meant very very well. I think he was a great senator,
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He was a great Attorney General in a lot of ways,
447
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:04.079
but he didn't have the ear of the president. He
448
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.119
didn't have the confidence of the president. And because of that,
449
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it was like working like in a fort that was
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00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:10.599
under siege.
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At all times.
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We'd be relying on you know, Rod Rosenstein's yearly Kenny
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ability to play celebrity apprentice with people in the White House,
454
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to be able to get the department out of messes.
455
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Because again, the Sessions always loved the president, but the
456
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:29.720
president didn't love him, and it was a real problem.
457
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And so that goes to, you know why, I think
458
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.160
it's important to have somebody in that position for better
459
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.480
or worries, who has the ear and respect, ear and
460
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.960
respect of the president, which Todd seems to have. And
461
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then with Whittaker, again he was a good guy. He
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had really great people around him, like some of my
463
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:47.400
favorite folks I worked with in the department, were in
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00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:51.440
his front office, but it was highly chaotic. He didn't
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have the support of the Senate, and they made it
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00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:59.440
very clear he didn't necessarily have full control of the department.
467
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:02.799
There was a lot of backbiting and a lot of
468
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.960
just chaos within the building that when bar showed up,
469
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it was a breath of fresh air, because here's a
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guy who has the confidence of the President, the confidence
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of the Senate, and knows his business in terms of
472
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.640
running the department. And so my worry is if you
473
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have Blanched there as a perennial acting where then you
474
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also have some sort of combination of perennial DAGs, you
475
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:29.279
wind up in a sort of perpetual Whittaker like situation,
476
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which just isn't good for the department. Whereas if you
477
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:37.480
actually confirm Blanche ideally also confirm a dag, you wind
478
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.519
up giving them more of a chance to be more
479
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.200
bar like, even if it again it's not going to
480
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.240
be bar it's not going to be mucazy. And I
481
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think there's real downstream danger of that that if I
482
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:51.960
were a senator, I'd be considering and you ed to
483
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some of it. Handy with the business of the US
484
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attorneys right where the statutory scheme for these US US
485
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.440
attorneys and we've i think gone back a little bit
486
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.519
and disagreed on some of the constitutional issues there. But
487
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:08.079
putting that aside, it's extraordinarily complex and very easy to
488
00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:11.000
like run a foul of it. It's also in some
489
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:12.920
ways easy to get the person that you want there,
490
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.680
but you have to be crossing your t's and dotting
491
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.039
your eyes otherwise you're gonna wind up getting a bunch
492
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.839
of convictions thrown out. Essentially, we ran into this at
493
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.960
DHS last time, where the senior leadership of the department
494
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.079
by the end of the administration was all individuals performing
495
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:32.640
the duties of black right. So you had Chad Wolfe.
496
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.799
I'm even sure if it was acting secretary, he was
497
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:38.839
performing the duties of the acting Secretary. Ken Kuchinelli was
498
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.799
performing the duties of the deputy Chad Maizel. I don't
499
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.119
remember if he was Senate confirmed GC. I think he
500
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:47.640
might have been acting GC. It was just actings up
501
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:52.400
and down to the extent that I was doing nominations
502
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:54.519
on the Judiciary Committee, getting calls from friends of mine
503
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:58.160
at DHS saying can you please stop doing some of
504
00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:59.720
these judges in the lame Duck. We need to get
505
00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.720
cheats Wolf confirmed because otherwise all of our eggs are
506
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:04.319
going to get thrown out. And we were just like
507
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.240
we're losing power. In two months, we're getting all the
508
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.640
judges we can get done. But they're concern wasn't wrong.
509
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:13.519
They wound up getting whole bunch of bregs thrown out
510
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:16.319
because when you have actings up and down the org chart,
511
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:18.480
it can be pretty easy to run a foul of
512
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.519
the Vacancy's Reform Act and then all you need is
513
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:23.559
you know, the right case in front of Judge Chuckkin
514
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:26.279
or whatever, and a lot of stuff winds up getting
515
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:26.839
thrown out.
516
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.079
So I think there is a.
517
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:33.720
Real, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but by twenty
518
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.920
twenty eight, absolutely a governance concern that if I were
519
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.759
a center Republican would really worry me about having just
520
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:42.160
actings running this whole show.
521
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:45.279
Yeah, I hear all that.
522
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.480
I just don't think that the problem here is structural
523
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:56.640
in terms of actings versus actually full fledged Senate confirmed appointees.
524
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.200
I think the problem is President Trump. I mean, he's
525
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:04.880
a chaotic person, and when you know the the history
526
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:08.759
that you just charted out with respect to Sessions and
527
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:13.200
Whittaker and Barr, and I appreciate that you were there
528
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.200
and I wasn't, But you know, I do know those guys,
529
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.839
and I am quite familiar with the history. And I
530
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.240
don't think you know, the reason that the President didn't
531
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:27.200
trust Sessions was over one decision.
532
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:27.799
It was.
533
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.559
I agree with you that other than that you know Sessions,
534
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:36.519
I would say, including that Sessions was a fabulous attorney general.
535
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:39.359
I think he was a he was very loyal to
536
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:43.119
a strong, solid law enforcement agenda. He was a very
537
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:48.319
good attorney general to Trump. But he recused himself from
538
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:50.920
Russia Gate, and to my you know, I, as I
539
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.920
said at the time, when he did this, I thought
540
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:58.359
his recusal was too sweeping, and I thought that he
541
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:05.440
maybe paydaid too much credence to the to the people
542
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.759
in the Justice Department, career staff, the career staff who.
543
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:10.720
Was giving the end of the day, it was on
544
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:12.319
some yeah, but I but.
545
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.799
I do think that it wasn't that it wasn't that
546
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:19.079
he was under siege. He was under sieged for a
547
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:24.640
very particular reason which was politically explosive.
548
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:29.160
And when Whitark it came in. It wasn't that the.
549
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:32.519
Democrats were opposed to him because he was an acting
550
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:35.599
or he didn't have the full array of power. It
551
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:39.480
was that Trump was They thought that what Trump did
552
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:42.440
to Sessions was wrong, and they decided that they were
553
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:43.640
going to give a hard time to.
554
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:47.000
Whoever Trump put in. I don't think it was personal.
555
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.480
It was Republicans who just didn't like that the way
556
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.720
that Trump went about putting him in as acting some
557
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:55.799
some didn't like what he did to Sessions, like Ben
558
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:59.160
Sass was a staunch Sessions defender. Others like Senator Graham,
559
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.039
I don't think he really cared one way or the
560
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:05.519
other what he was doing to Sessimons and so uh,
561
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.880
there was just I think a lot of h befunnelment
562
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:12.000
and confusion as to why Trump was doing this. And
563
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:14.039
I think that's also why they put pressure on Trump
564
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.759
to actually get somebody to do the job long term.
565
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:19.400
Which let me let me doing well.
566
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.720
Let me put let me ask you this then, because
567
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.599
I don't think this is I don't think this is happenstance.
568
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:26.960
I think this is a plan.
569
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:32.240
Am I wrong to say that Trump before he was
570
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:33.160
even in office?
571
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:37.599
In the second term.
572
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:40.920
Was beginning to float schemes for how he would get
573
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:46.000
around the appointments clause uh and the need to get
574
00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:50.200
Senate confirmation uh, and try to figure out how he
575
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.279
could either provoke recesses so he could try to do
576
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.319
recess appointments in the kind of figazy way that that
577
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:02.519
Obama did it, uh, and otherwise has been trying to
578
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:05.599
put in people and strain as far as he could
579
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:06.960
strain the.
580
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:09.599
Replacements Act.
581
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.480
And you know the provisions it's at five point forty
582
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.440
six and the other provisions of law that we talk
583
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:20.360
about a million times, whether the president's trying to put
584
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.159
an acting in or trying to put somebody who's an
585
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.519
interim in. They have extended those as about as far
586
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:33.440
as you could extend them, precisely to avoid Senate confirmation.
587
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:37.199
And isn't that a large part of the reason that
588
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:40.760
you get to the point where you have actings all
589
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:44.199
over the place. It's not that it's I think the
590
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.280
problem here is the way the president has gone about
591
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:50.280
this and has been so adamant that he has to
592
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.039
have people he personally trusts in these positions, whether or
593
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.119
not he thinks they can get confirmed and the reason
594
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.440
that we have actings all over the place is not
595
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:05.000
I mean, look, maybe there's slow walking by the Democrats.
596
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.159
That's what they do, that's politics. I get that, But
597
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.559
a lot of this isn't it. Isn't it true that
598
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:12.400
a lot of this has to do with the President
599
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.599
actually trying to subvert the process of confirmation.
600
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:19.079
I think that's probably right.
601
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.199
I mean, I think it goes to part of why
602
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.920
I don't think refusing to confirm Blanche would actually really
603
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:28.719
do much to get the president's thinking to change. I
604
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:33.559
don't think he necessarily puts a ton of credence in
605
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:36.679
why it matters to get these people Senate confirmed. I
606
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:38.360
do think on the back end you could get in
607
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:39.880
Zier about why it's just a pain in the neck
608
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:43.840
to have to do it again. But he's I think
609
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:47.239
you're right that he seems to have come in with
610
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.320
an eye towards trying to avoid this. I remember what
611
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.760
was it November twenty twenty four where he got going
612
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:57.920
on recess appointments, and I want to say, was it
613
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:00.960
pale Letta put out a big paper about why recess
614
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:05.440
appointments are totally constitutional and totally legitimate, and I remember
615
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:09.159
there was this day that McConnell got an award from AEI,
616
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:13.079
and Door asked him about it, so it was in
617
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:14.360
the news. He's like, yeah, we're not doing it.
618
00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:21.880
So I think he does. He has had that attitude.
619
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:25.360
Frankly, I expected going in that I had been hearing
620
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:30.000
rumors that they were thinking just actings everywhere, all times whenever.
621
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:32.440
Those are the rumors I had been hearing, and so
622
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.159
I was actually a little surprised at the extent to
623
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.800
which they really went through the Senate process in the end,
624
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.559
through I think, confirmed record numbers of people in his
625
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:43.440
first year and wound up coming up with the whole
626
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.440
system by which to avoid Democrat obstruction on sort of
627
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.280
lower level nominees. So they actually are confirming a lot
628
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.440
of people in the end, And so I think it's
629
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.079
fair to say that they came in with an idea
630
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.559
of how can we avoid sort of responding to the
631
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.800
Senate in our personnel decisions, but practically speaking walked back
632
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:05.280
a lot of that when they actually came into power
633
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.960
to actually get Senate confirmation. They have gotten Senate confirmation
634
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:09.480
for a lot of people. I think you want to
635
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:11.639
run into trouble with US attorneys because you have the
636
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:15.159
blue slip, and that's one where again that there are
637
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:19.400
a host of different ways where you can avoid senate
638
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:25.760
confirmation and actually still have your person run that office.
639
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:26.639
Time.
640
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.079
Yeah, I think that they eventually figured it out in
641
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:33.880
La what's his name is, Ellie Billy out there.
642
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.800
He is a very very very sharp.
643
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.920
Appellate council in his office who I think is one
644
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:41.280
of the reasons why he's one of the few who
645
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.159
has actually been able to stay in office as a
646
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:48.360
perennial fausa essentially, But as I understand it, he's also
647
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:50.280
happy being a perennial fauso as long as he's in
648
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.960
charge of his office. For whatever reason, I think some
649
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:56.840
of these folks out east really wanted, really wanted the
650
00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:01.480
title for some reason. I think there's probably a way
651
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:04.119
that Alina Habba could still be a perennial fausa in
652
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:06.920
New Jersey, but it seems like she didn't want that.
653
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.039
It seems like Lindsay Halligan didn't want that and so
654
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:14.599
ordinarily byzantine ways of doing it, and.
655
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:19.000
But Todd wants it, you know, I mean, that's the
656
00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:20.199
that's the way this works.
657
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:21.039
They want the title.
658
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:26.400
We're having this discussion because Todd isn't content to be acting.
659
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:29.679
He wants to be the full fledged attorney general. That's
660
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:31.239
the way this goes. Let me let me ask you
661
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:35.519
something else. One of the things I thought was really
662
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.800
disturbing about one of the more disturbing things I think
663
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:42.360
Blanche has done, which is his role in the settlement
664
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:47.039
of the I R S case, Trump's personal suit against
665
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:51.039
the I R S, which we're still I understand that
666
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:54.840
that's still rolling around in the in the court. And
667
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.079
is it Judge Brinkhama judge.
668
00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:59.800
Yeah, they're going back and forth with brink Maha, right.
669
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:03.039
So, but one of the things I thought was disturbing
670
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:08.239
is that. And to the background to this is I
671
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.880
have thought from the beginning of the administration that one
672
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:14.719
of the purposes of this Weaponization Working Group, and a
673
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.679
lot of what their messaging has been from the beginning.
674
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:23.559
Is to is to to.
675
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:28.400
Discredit the investigations that were done against Trump, to cast
676
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.599
them as if they were completely fake and based on
677
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.599
absolutely no misconduct, just.
678
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:40.880
Sheer law, fair, woven out of the uh, woven out
679
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:41.320
of nothing.
680
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:48.239
And I was a big critic of Jack Smith's Capital
681
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:53.199
Riot investigation. I don't think I don't think there's any
682
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.360
question that the Justice Department would have had it was
683
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.679
absolutely legitimate for the Justice Department to investigate the Capital
684
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:03.159
riot and Trump's role in it. I do think the
685
00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:06.960
way that it played out that they were trying basically
686
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:12.840
to use a criminal investigation with no eye toward whether
687
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.000
the president had any immunity or not, and was actually
688
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:20.599
practically prosecutable under the circumstances. I think they did use
689
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:25.599
that as a proxy for a failed impeachment, which failed
690
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:29.760
mainly because I thought the Democrat led Congress in twenty
691
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:33.159
twenty one went about it in a very politicized and
692
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:39.559
incompetent way, and then they tried to use the Jack
693
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:43.360
Smith prosecution of that as a kind of a both
694
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:48.159
a cleanup operation and to the extent that investigation I
695
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:51.760
think was law fair. It was because it was governed
696
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.880
by the political calendar, But I don't think that means
697
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.280
that the underlying misconduct was not misconduct. Whether or not
698
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:05.360
it was criminal is a different matter. The Mara Lago case,
699
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:10.519
I think was clearly based on criminal conduct and would
700
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:15.760
in fact have resulted in a conviction if Smith hadn't
701
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.000
overcharged it. I think that you know any of us
702
00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:22.360
who have actually prosecuted a case that involves classified information,
703
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.880
where you know, the Classified Information Procedures Act kicks in
704
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.559
and you basically have to have a pre trial trial
705
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.679
of the trial where the court makes all kinds of
706
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:36.159
rulings about whether you know, the evidence of the prosecutor
707
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:38.599
wants to put in his admissible, what the defense wants
708
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:41.599
to put in his admissible. They're very hard cases to
709
00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:46.880
get to trial. They can't get to trial in anything
710
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:49.599
like what the normal track would be for a normal case.
711
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.440
And if Smith had indicted that as just a simple
712
00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:58.000
obstruction of the grand jury case, he would have had
713
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:00.519
a chance to get that trial. And it was serious
714
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:04.559
misconduct because there was significant evidence that Trump had lied
715
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.639
to the FBI about whether he was hoarding documents or not. Now,
716
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:11.000
I'm not saying he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
717
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:11.519
He didn't.
718
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:13.400
He never got a trial, and he didn't get a
719
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.679
trial in the other case either. But I don't think
720
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:22.039
either of them was based on frivolity or was based
721
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:24.800
on you know, it was just law fair through and through.
722
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:26.320
For example, I thought.
723
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:30.519
That the the brag prosecution in New York was lawfair
724
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:33.400
through and through that wasn't a crime. They just they
725
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:37.599
essentially made something up and labeled it as a crime
726
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:42.159
and got a very compliant judge who helped them along
727
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.880
the way. And I think with respect to the civil
728
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:51.239
prosecution of Trump by the New York Attorney General, Letitia James,
729
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:55.440
that was also a I don't want to say it
730
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:57.280
was a made up case, because I think there's a
731
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.559
lot of evidence that Trump did exactly his assets, but
732
00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:04.880
it was an unprecedented case in that she took a
733
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:09.199
consumer protection statute and applied it in a situation that
734
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:12.199
it had no application in where you were dealing with
735
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:17.159
sophisticated financial actors on both sides whose whole business was
736
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:21.000
to appraise risk. So I think that case was nonsense.
737
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:23.079
I think the New York cases of nonsense. To the
738
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.119
extent Trump says that you know it was all fake
739
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:31.840
phony law fair, I'm with him, But I don't think
740
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:36.000
that the Jack Smith cases are based on nothing. And
741
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:40.679
the reason I raise it in the context of Blanche's
742
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:46.360
role in the settlement is that in the actual settlement
743
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:50.840
papers in Trump's suit with the Irs, there are references
744
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:54.679
that are made to Smith's cases as if they were
745
00:43:55.079 --> 00:44:00.880
completely made up fraudulent cases, and I kind of find it.
746
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.400
Having been at the Justice Department for a very long time,
747
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:08.880
I find it astonishing to see the upper tier of
748
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:15.559
the Justice Department just label two major investigations by the
749
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.239
Justice Department as if they were completely fraudulent when it
750
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.280
seems to me that there was significant misconduct that the
751
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.639
Justice Department had every reason to investigate.
752
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.840
Yeah, I guess I just probably don't see eye to
753
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:33.960
eye about how legitimate those investigations were. I agree that
754
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:36.079
they're more serious than the New York ones, which were
755
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:39.679
for Gayzy, as you said earlier.
756
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:41.000
But.
757
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:45.480
I think with the Jack Smith investigations, I just I
758
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:49.639
think a couple underlying issues. One is that if you're
759
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.199
looking to prosecute the former president of the United States,
760
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.960
that is just, as a matter of tradition in this country,
761
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.920
very very very unusual. It's the kind of thing that
762
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:05.559
happens in like you know, Brazil, right. It's a sort
763
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:08.559
of Latin American construct of how you treat people who
764
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:11.159
are out of office. And so does that mean that they,
765
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.599
you know, are immune to the law. No, but it
766
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.159
means I think you have to be pretty pretty serious
767
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:20.079
about what you're going after them. For I don't think
768
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:27.519
with the January sixth investigation, I didn't see it as
769
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:31.360
being a particularly good use of the Department's time, given
770
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:34.880
that high threshold, given how far away it was from
771
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:38.079
the acts in question. Right, that issue had been litigated
772
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:41.079
politically in terms of the impeachment. There was the you know,
773
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:45.480
Select Committee that looked at it forever. According to the reports,
774
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.480
you know, the Biden administration was kind of frustrated that
775
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:50.559
Garland wasn't moving fast enough on it, and then of
776
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:55.440
Garland eventually did move on it any appointed Jack Smith,
777
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.039
which I think is sort of another issue. I mean,
778
00:45:57.320 --> 00:45:59.440
you know, generally of the view. I don't know, can't
779
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:04.000
remember if you've on this or not, but something like that. Again,
780
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:08.320
it's just sort of further DOJ independent hypocrisy to give
781
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:10.920
it off to Jack Smith and say like this is oh,
782
00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:14.880
independent prosecutors looking at this case that we know everybody
783
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.960
from the President on down to the DAG he desperately
784
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.960
want let me Barton Dunnet himself.
785
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:23.559
Yeah, let me agree with you again on that. I
786
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:24.840
did write about this at the time.
787
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:28.639
I didn't think his appointment was compliant with the Special
788
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:32.039
Council regulations. I didn't think there was a conflict of interest.
789
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:36.119
The Biden Justice Department had been investigating for about eighteen
790
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.639
months or more when Smith was appointed. The idea that
791
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:44.119
they couldn't was ridiculous. The reason he was appointed was
792
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.639
exactly what you suggest, which is to try to pretend
793
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.360
that Biden didn't have anything to do with exactly what
794
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:53.480
Biden was doing, which was having his opponent in the
795
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:57.000
next election subjected to a criminal investigation.
796
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:58.400
I agree with all that.
797
00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:03.159
I even agree that, uh, if it was my call,
798
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:08.800
my exercise of discretion, I would have exercised discretion to
799
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:10.800
not indict Trump.
800
00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:12.480
I'm not I'm not saying that I.
801
00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:16.320
Thought this was a proper use of the Justice Department's time.
802
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:20.840
I think that again, I thought the Capitol riot case
803
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.800
or the January sixth case was a proxy for failed.
804
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:25.920
And competent impeachment.
805
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:29.440
And as far as the mari A Lago case is concerned,
806
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.039
I thought there was very serious misconduct. But I also
807
00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:33.880
think that, you know, there's a lot of people who've
808
00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:35.719
committed similar misconduct that the.
809
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.599
So I think that's that's the That's what I run
810
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:43.800
into with mar A Lago is to your point, if
811
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:45.440
you're going to do that and do it right. It's
812
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.840
extraordinarily complex. It's gonna take forever, and so maybe the
813
00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:52.079
overcharge you should have just done something like obstruction on
814
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:58.840
the grand jury. I guess I get very queasy at
815
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:03.880
sport of doing process charges against a former president. You've got,
816
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:08.559
you know, Bill Clinton committed perjury, he got disbarred for it.
817
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:09.119
He's a lawyer.
818
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:12.800
As a lawyer, he has subsequent, you know, independent obligations
819
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.440
from his role as president or whatever, and so he
820
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:18.360
faced sanction for that, and that seems entirely appropriate. But
821
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:25.280
the kind of you know, classic process charge thing that
822
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:27.719
you know, federal prosecutors love to use, going using that
823
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:31.280
against the former president, I don't love. I think there
824
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:33.400
are a lot of complexities when you're dealing like I
825
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.880
don't buy like obviously the he declassified it with his
826
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:41.199
mind argument like that certain friends of mine make, don't
827
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.920
I don't buy that, of course, But I do think
828
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:50.000
it does get a little complicated. Having had to deal
829
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:53.480
with a fair amount of p r A issues over
830
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:58.519
the years, leaving a side its constitutionality, which ohl See
831
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:01.920
recently oppined on that it's not constitutional. And I've been
832
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:03.920
surprised since then to find how many sort of like
833
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:08.880
very serious conservative mainstream people agree with that. But putting
834
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:12.119
that aside like you do, it gets complicated when you're
835
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:17.800
dealing with the president because classification, who owns the records,
836
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:22.679
things like that are a function of the executive and
837
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.079
it gets tricky when you're dealing with former executives. Republicans
838
00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:30.440
tend to have a pretty broad view about historically what
839
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:35.360
former executives get to claim, while Democrats do not, I think,
840
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:37.159
frankly for lawfair purposes.
841
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:39.000
George W.
842
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:43.840
Bush promulgated rags that obviously former presidents control have full
843
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.760
control over their records because his dad was going to
844
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.039
keep control of his records. And then as soon as
845
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:51.559
Obama comes in like absolutely not, we're not doing that.
846
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.920
I get to control what that war criminal to push
847
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:59.239
keeps right, And so that winds up being again kind
848
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:02.920
of complicated. It is a practical constitutional matter, and so
849
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:05.880
I just don't think it necessarily meets a threshold of
850
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:09.760
what a prosecutor should be doing now as to it
851
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:17.440
being in the weaponization IRS proposed settlement. I mean, in
852
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.880
an ideal world, Blanche did more for the president on
853
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.599
all of that. With the immunity decision at the Supreme
854
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:29.280
Court than any of this will do. And it would
855
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:32.679
be great if the President simply recognized that and let
856
00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:36.159
this other stuff slide. But you know, that's simply not
857
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:40.000
who he is. And in terms of the sort of
858
00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:44.079
practical question at hand, it's just not if I were
859
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:45.800
a Republican centater, I don't think it's the sort of
860
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:49.519
backward looking thing that I would be too concerned about
861
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.039
when casting a vote about essentially what will the Department
862
00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:54.000
of Justice look like for.
863
00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:56.239
The next two and a half years.
864
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:58.079
Yeah, I just think that.
865
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:04.760
If an imperative of the Justice Department is to whitewash
866
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:08.679
the seriousness of the underlying conduct as opposed to whether
867
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:14.079
it was a prudent exercise of discretion to bring the cases,
868
00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:19.840
I you know, I agree that it wasn't a prudent
869
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.639
exercise of discretion to bring the cases, certainly as they
870
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:26.199
were charged. I probably have a different view of it
871
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:29.079
if Smith had brought a more.
872
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:32.440
Narrow case, because while I agree with you that.
873
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:38.119
Indicting a president or a former president is the kind
874
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:41.199
of thing that you know, you expect out of a
875
00:51:41.239 --> 00:51:44.079
third world countries, we don't want our country to go
876
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:47.519
in that direction, the incentive that it creates for the
877
00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:51.599
next party when it comes in to do the same
878
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:55.960
sort of thing is too high and ruinous. And for
879
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:00.760
that reason, I don't think that those cases were proved brought.
880
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.559
But I might feel differently about it if it was
881
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:07.960
just narrowly about obstructing the grand jury, which I think
882
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:12.199
happened when Trump was out of office and after he
883
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:19.079
had been given a number of opportunities to provide or
884
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:24.480
to return the documents. And also, you know, if he
885
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:28.719
thought that those documents were his and all the arguments
886
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:32.400
that people we both know and like have made in
887
00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:36.719
his behalf were valid arguments, he could have marched into
888
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:40.639
federal court and said, quashed the subpoena, those are my documents.
889
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:43.960
And instead he misled the FBI and the grand jury.
890
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:47.480
At least that's what the evidence suggests. So I might
891
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:51.360
feel differently about it if Smith had brought.
892
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:52.000
A narrow case.
893
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:55.039
I still think it would be a close call on
894
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:58.639
whether you exercise discretion, given what the prior history and
895
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:01.079
this sort of stuff is. But I do think it's
896
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:05.559
a terrible mistake for the Justice Department to contend that
897
00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:10.400
two things that were absolutely legitimate for the Justice Department
898
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:15.039
to look into and that did uncover misconduct. Whether it
899
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:17.719
was a criminal misconduct is a different story. But for
900
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:21.159
the Justice Department to treat that as if it was
901
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:25.599
just complete fake and you know, completely fake and phony,
902
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:29.719
I just think is a is a terrible mistake, and
903
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:33.000
it's the kind of thing I would imagine that can
904
00:53:33.079 --> 00:53:36.719
make for some difficult questions for Blanche to answer it
905
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:38.840
as confirmation hearings.
906
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.079
Do you think that's that different in theory. Just thinking
907
00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:49.920
about it now, from say when Biden took over, there
908
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:52.400
were a number of cases public charge comes to mind
909
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:57.440
where the Garland Justice Department didn't, you know, change the
910
00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.480
rule or anything like that. They just marched to court
911
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:04.360
and said, yeah, the planeiffs, we agree with the national
912
00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:09.000
injunction you've put on this rule. PLANEUS win. They started,
913
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:13.440
and Trump's doing it now in Texas. But they started
914
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:19.639
this business of regulation by especially acquiescence to national intewnship.
915
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:25.719
That I mean conceptually, that's saying like, yeah, no, what
916
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:32.519
this DOJ policy was unlawful. We agree this was unlawful,
917
00:54:33.039 --> 00:54:36.599
and therefore, you know, the La Raza or whoever wins.
918
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:39.360
It seems that it's not.
919
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:45.079
That unusual for one, you know, administration's DOJ to cast
920
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:48.400
dispersion on a previous administration DOJ activity. And I think
921
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:50.840
that that seems like one sort of just again, thinking
922
00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:53.199
about it now, public example that I think is basically
923
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:54.000
doing the same thing.
924
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.440
Yeah, I look, I agree with you that there are
925
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:05.039
situations where, often, for policy driven reasons, I guess always,
926
00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:10.559
for policy driven reasons, one Justice Department will countermand what
927
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.760
another Justice department has done and be very critical of it.
928
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:17.039
I think this is very different because this is not
929
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.760
this is not merely a change of policy. This is
930
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:27.800
taking behavior that was bad behavior and acting either like
931
00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:32.840
it didn't happen or that it was fine. And under
932
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:38.239
circumstances to have a situation where the Justice Department is
933
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:41.639
taking that position with respect to Trump and then throwing
934
00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:45.599
the book at Bolton or having a case against Komy
935
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:49.400
that accuses him of calling for the murder of the
936
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:53.119
President on the kind of nonsense that is in that indictment,
937
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:56.000
I don't see how they can. I mean, it's so
938
00:55:56.199 --> 00:56:00.480
hyper political to take such different positions with respect to
939
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:04.199
a case that actually did involve very serious misconduct. And
940
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:06.079
then these other cases which.
941
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:07.599
You know.
942
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:09.840
I mean, we all know that if Bolton had written
943
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.360
a book that was complimentary of Trump, there's no way
944
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:18.960
he gets prosecuted for uh, for mishandling classified information. We
945
00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:24.719
all know that. It's yeah, no, it's I'm not saying
946
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:26.719
there's no case investigation.
947
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:28.800
I wasn't. I thought I thought it was Biden's US
948
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:29.440
Attorney office.
949
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:33.079
To one, it's got a it's got a strange history,
950
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:34.960
which we probably don't have time to get into, but
951
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:38.079
it's it's got The book review happened under Trump, and
952
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:41.440
then there was an investigation that kind of bridged into Biden,
953
00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:43.800
and then it got dropped, but it got picked up
954
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:46.920
again when you know the new administration, the new Trump
955
00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:51.000
administration came in. My My only point is that I
956
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.119
think if you're going to take the position that the
957
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:56.639
conduct that Trump was investigated for was unserious, which I
958
00:56:56.679 --> 00:56:59.480
don't think is true, it's very odd to be taking
959
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:02.519
the kind of position that they're taking in these cases
960
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:06.360
against Trump's enemies, and I don't know how he's going
961
00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:07.719
to be able to justify that.
962
00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:10.559
I need to jump in because we are now out
963
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:13.480
of time. Thank you very much for a very enlightening
964
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:17.519
and informative discussion. We'll now move to closing statements. Andy,
965
00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:19.400
E're up two minutes. Of course.
966
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:22.960
Well, thank you, Henry, and also thanks to Mike, because
967
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:27.000
I think I have so much respect for him and
968
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.800
enjoy his work. But also I think a conversation like
969
00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:34.039
this demonstrates that we actually have a lot of common
970
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.360
ground and want a lot of the same things, even
971
00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:40.119
if we're not united. On the bottom line, I think
972
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:43.920
if I could get a Justice Department run by Mike Fragoso,
973
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:47.679
I'd be quite happy with that. I do think it
974
00:57:47.719 --> 00:57:50.440
comes down to what we discussed at the beginning, which
975
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:53.639
is you have to make an assessment of what you
976
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:56.360
think the role of Congresses and what you think the
977
00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:00.719
role of the Senate is in this posture. I can't
978
00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:07.199
comfortably take the position that we should accept as a
979
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:11.480
given that President Trump is going to be lawless, and
980
00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:14.440
therefore what the job of the Senate is is to
981
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:17.599
try to get somebody in there who might make him
982
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:22.360
marginally less lawless. I think the job of the Senate
983
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:26.199
is to say that we're not going to tolerate the
984
00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:29.519
kind of behavior that we're getting out of this Justice Department,
985
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:31.599
and to the extent that we have the power to
986
00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:36.639
address it. We're not going to give you your nominees, particularly
987
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.280
a nominee who has been there through all of the misconduct,
988
00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:43.039
and you know, maybe he's fought.
989
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:43.880
Off some of it.
990
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:48.760
There are reports that Blanche has stopped some of the
991
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:52.599
more I don't want to say crazy, but at least,
992
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:58.159
you know, the more irregular things that Trump wanted done
993
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:02.320
and that some people who are his minions and the
994
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:05.480
Justice Department were willing to done to do. There are
995
00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:09.119
reports that Blanche pushed back on a lot of that.
996
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:13.599
But the fact of the matter is he's part and
997
00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:17.719
parcel of most of it. And I guess if I
998
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:20.519
agreed with Mike that what we were talking about was
999
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:27.000
one percent of the work of the Justice Department and
1000
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:29.480
that it wasn't a very I don't want to put
1001
00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:31.239
words in Mike's mouth because I don't think he said this,
1002
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.039
but the impression that it's not a very important one
1003
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.519
percent when you think about the greater scheme of things
1004
00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:40.559
and how well the Justice Department is otherwise pursuing a
1005
00:59:40.639 --> 00:59:45.320
strong law and order agenda, I must say, I just
1006
00:59:46.039 --> 00:59:48.800
can't see it that way. I don't think it's just
1007
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:54.679
one percent. I think it's very The quantum of lawlessness
1008
00:59:54.679 --> 00:59:59.119
that has gone on and the seriousness of it and
1009
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:05.000
the unabashed nature of it is something. Look, I don't
1010
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:08.559
think that the Senate can, in good conscience look the
1011
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:12.760
other way about. And I don't think their job is
1012
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:16.400
to try to make the Justice Department work a little
1013
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:19.800
bit better. Accepting the fact that the president is just
1014
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:21.719
going to be lawless and we have to deal with
1015
01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:23.880
that as a given and try to work it out
1016
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:26.519
as best we can. I think it's the Senate's job
1017
01:00:26.679 --> 01:00:30.159
to respond to that and to not take actions that
1018
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:34.079
appear to have the Republican Senate endorsing the Justice Department
1019
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:40.480
being abused in this fashion. So I wish I could
1020
01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:44.559
take a different position. I really had high hopes for
1021
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:48.639
Todd blanche As I said, I hope that because of
1022
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:53.840
his federal experience, his sovereign District of New York experience,
1023
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.639
that he would be a real asset to Pam Bondi
1024
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:01.559
and that the Justice Department wouldn't go in this direction.
1025
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:06.639
I really hoped that he would prioritize the institution over
1026
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:11.760
the president's demands. I think a strong attorney general or
1027
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:15.639
deputy attorney general is supposed to convince the president when
1028
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:18.719
he's doing something that's lawless or outside of a norm,
1029
01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:21.920
why the Norman is important and why the law is
1030
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:26.239
important to uphold. And I've been very disappointed in his
1031
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:28.760
performance in that regard, and I wouldn't be able to
1032
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:30.039
confirm him.
1033
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:34.280
My final word is yours, thank you, thanks again for
1034
01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:35.760
having me, and he was great talking to you.
1035
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:36.599
I really enjoyed that.
1036
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.239
At the end of the day, I think the issues
1037
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:44.400
that cause heartburn with Blanche are they really are a
1038
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:46.519
very small percentage of what the Department of Justice is
1039
01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:48.920
doing at any given time. The responsibilities of the Department
1040
01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:55.119
are vast, They're sweeping, and I think again in the vast, vast,
1041
01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:57.679
vast majority of cases, they are doing it well under
1042
01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:02.840
challenging circumstances. Read about some of the stuff that the
1043
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:05.320
President is demanding that the Department does, and that and
1044
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:07.480
he doesn't like, and that I for the most part,
1045
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:10.920
don't like either, But we don't necessarily read about the
1046
01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:12.840
other side of it. And so I think there are
1047
01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:15.320
benefits to having someone and there have been benefits to
1048
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:18.679
having someone in Blanche's position that has the President's trust
1049
01:02:18.719 --> 01:02:23.000
that we might not necessarily see so, for example, the
1050
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:25.880
Supreme Court win rate of this listener General's office is
1051
01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:28.519
staggeringly high. As of earlier this year, is at like
1052
01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:32.159
ninety percent when the court actually reached a decision. A
1053
01:02:32.199 --> 01:02:36.280
big part of that is that the President trusts Blanche,
1054
01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:39.079
and he trusts sour as his former lawyers, to tell
1055
01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:40.880
him what case is to take and what cases not
1056
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:42.719
to If it we're up to the president, I'm sure
1057
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:44.960
they'd take up everything and it would be terrible for
1058
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:46.880
the law, it will be terrible for the Department, be
1059
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:49.960
terrible for the country. But because they have the president's trust,
1060
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.400
they're able to tell him, no, trust us to pick
1061
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:54.800
our battles. We know how to pick these ones and win,
1062
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.679
and they've been doing it, and so I think that
1063
01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:59.079
is probably playing out in all sorts of other areas
1064
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:01.559
of the Department that we don't don't necessarily see. I
1065
01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:04.559
think Blanche is in the ideal position to keep doing
1066
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:07.920
that because of the trust that the President has in him.
1067
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:09.559
And so at the end of the day, if you're
1068
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:13.280
a Republican senator, the question isn't really about Blanche. It's
1069
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:16.119
about the Department of Justice and how to best steward
1070
01:03:16.119 --> 01:03:19.639
the Department of Justice, given the realities of President Trump,
1071
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:22.639
given the realities of the nature of Senate leverage, and
1072
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:25.159
things like that, And so I think you've got three choices.
1073
01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:28.039
You can oppose Blanche to send a message while he
1074
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:31.519
stays in his current position, which is essentially expending capital
1075
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:35.039
for no real practical mess benefit. So you know, mcconall
1076
01:03:35.079 --> 01:03:37.639
calls make a point, not a law. You can oppose
1077
01:03:37.639 --> 01:03:41.199
Blanche with a night towards getting an alternative. Senate Republicans
1078
01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:43.199
should really not like that, because they will not like
1079
01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:46.960
whatever is in door number two. It's probably beyond their imagination.
1080
01:03:48.199 --> 01:03:50.760
Or third, which is where I fall. You can support
1081
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:54.400
Blanche recognizing that because Trump is the president and all
1082
01:03:54.440 --> 01:03:58.320
that entails, Blanche is the best guy available for running
1083
01:03:58.360 --> 01:03:59.840
the Department of Justice for the next two and a half.
1084
01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:03.719
Ye thank you Mike, thank you Andy, and thank you listeners.
1085
01:04:04.039 --> 01:04:07.639
Please join me again in two weeks for another episode
1086
01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:10.360
of Conservative cross Folds. Take care