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Hello, and welcome to Comic Boom, the comics and education podcast.
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If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you.
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My name is Lucy Starbuck-Bradley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic, a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice, and hopefully shed some light on some titles you can bring into your libraries, classrooms, and onto your bookshelves at home too.
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today's guest is book influencer and author Claire Linney.
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You may have seen her on Instagram.
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I'm a big fan of Claire's content on there.
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She's passionate about the need for more stories that highlight people of African descent throughout British history and advocating for diverse representation in children's literature.
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Her series, Time Tub Travelers, aims to do just that as well, and they're brilliant reads, and we talk about that today.
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And of course, as you would expect for a guest on Comic Boom, Claire is a passionate reader of graphic novels.
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She'll be talking us through her top picks today and also talking about her experiences as a writer and a parent as well.
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Here's what Claire has to say.
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Hello, Clare.
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Welcome to Comic Boom
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Thank you so much for having me
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You are very welcome.
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I always start the podcast by, asking guests to tell us a little bit about their personal journey into comics.
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Everyone's different, discovers them at different age were they something that you got into as a child or something that you discovered later in life?
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I, I, dabbled very briefly with comics as a child.
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So my mom, who I love dearly and she's a legend, but was an English literary teacher.
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So, um, you know, was very keen on me reading the classics like Tess of the d'Urbervilles and less encouraging of me reading comic books.
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So I think I used to read comic strips like in magazines and newspapers.
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I think the Sunday Times used to have a pullout for kids, and this is the'80s, so this is a long time ago, and I think they had little comic strips.
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That, was it The Fun Day Times?
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Fun Day Times.
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Yes, Fun Day Times.
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So I remember the Fun Day Times.
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and then I used to have Calvin and Hobbes books.
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That was kind of, I loved the Calvin and Hobbes strips.
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but I don't think, I wasn't really encouraged to think of them as books.
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Like, they didn't really, they, they were something else.
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They were kind of just something for fun, like a distraction.
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No one ever gave me a comic book or a graphic novel.
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That wasn't, that wasn't a thing in my childhood.
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So I think it wasn't until I was, oh, probably in my late 20s, and it was probably to do with a guy that I was trying to date or fancied and was trying to be cool.
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And I'm, I'm sure it came from there.
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I don't know who, but I think I remember, I think I got Watchmen, graphic novel, which is kind of jumping straight in the deep end.
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Like, that's not, do you know what?
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That's not easing into it.
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Uh, and there's many things wrong with that graphic novel.
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It's problematic in so many ways, but I really loved it.
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I was like, oh, wow, this is...
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And I think it was the first time I'd sort of seen a whole narrative played out in that kind of, you know, in a comic rather than just like,'cause the Calvin and Hobbes are great, but they're, they're short amuse-bouches.
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of four-panel strips or, yeah
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Yeah, so that was the first thing.
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And so I read all that, then I thought,"Oh, this is interesting." And I think that kind of, that was my gateway.
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And then I think I went to Maus by Art Spiegelman, which was completely the opposite.
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But, um, that really opened my eyes, so I was like,"Oh, okay, this is just a format.
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It's not like this is just superheroes."'Cause I think there's a danger that people look at comics and they're like,"This is just, it's just superhero stuff.
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It's just Marvel.
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It's just DC." And I think having gone from Watchmen to Maus, I was like,"Oh, no, this is, like, historic.
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This is really serious historical fiction." Um, and Maus, for anyone who doesn't know, explores the Holocaust.
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And it's an amazing piece of work.
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And so I think from there I started to sort of look for,, kind of similar graphic novels.
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I was never hugely, but I would sort of dabble here and there.
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So I, like, I love Brian K.
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Vaughan and Fiona Staples.
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I loved Paper Girls.
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I'm very into Saga.
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But then I think when I started reading children's books, when I be- uh, started writing for children about five or six years ago, I think I then sort of naturally started to come across the odd middle grade graphic novel and young adult graphic novel, and that's when I got really hooked.
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Like, really whole shelf, spending large amounts of money hooked.
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Yeah, that's when it, that's when you know you're in trouble when you-
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not, it's not a, it's not a cheap habit, I will say.
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Although I have discovered that the Libby app allows you to get graphic novels from the library, and Newham have an huge collection.
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So when I realized I could read graphic novels for free on my iPad, that has been a, that's been a game
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Yeah, I completely agree actually.
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And that the, because some of the challenges with accessing graphic novels through, uh, in sort of physical copies from the library is that they're so popular they come straight off the shelf as soon as they're returned.
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It can be, c- can take quite a lot, especially if you're trying to read something in sequence or you're reading a series, it can be
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it's a mission
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So actually, that online access is really, really valuable and it's really, really helpful.
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My children really enjoy reading comics online.
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I tend to, I, I do like to have a physical copy.
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Well, I, I sometimes talk about I use my library, card to audition books, especially with, like, a long-running series, you're like,"Well, I don't wanna commit and get something," so I'll kind of audition it.
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I'll read the first one on the Libby app, and then if I like it, or sometimes I'll just read the whole thing on the Libby app, and then I'll just be like,"I'm buying a physical copy anyway." But then I least, at least I know I'm investing in something I wanna keep.
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But yeah,
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my library card to audition books and
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That is an excellent idea.
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Excellent idea.
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We're gonna talk a little bit about your writing, uh, a little bit later on., But, I wondered as a parent, Have you provided a kind of different environment to the one that you grew up in where comics were sort of slightly separate?
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What impact has that had
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I don't wanna look like I'm throwing shade on my mum.
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She's, like, amazing and support- But, like, my ta- my taste in
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Times have changed
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fr- Times have changed, and my mum very much gave me kind of classic worthy books and my dad gave me 1970s sci-fi.
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So, this, I am the project.
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I'm sort of the combination of that.
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So my son, so I, like, comics have been an absolute game changer,, in the house.
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So my son is, like, he's always been good at reading.
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He's n- he doesn't have any issues.
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He's always, he did well in phonics.
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But oh my God, phonics books, I mean, shoot me in the head.
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Just, I know it's a process and I know the process works, but there was one about, like, planting radishes in the garden, and we had to read it about seven times'cause in each group there's only about seven books and I was like,"I cannot read." And my son, I could also, like, the light dying in his eyes.
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so I think when we started looking at books to get him to read, but also longer books for us to read,'cause I think although there are still picture books that he absolutely loves, he started to want longer narratives.
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But the jump from a picture book to even early chapter books is really big.
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Even heavily illustrated ones, it's quite a big leap.
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And I think when I started sort of suggesting a couple, he just looked quite overwhelmed by them, especially in terms of him reading.
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So I started bringing, I started getting comics and graphic novels because I think it really helped to bridge that gap between something that was a longer form narrative, but was a lot more visual, so the storytelling was easier to follow.
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And we've kept up with them because he just loves them.
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And I love reading them.
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But I think they really help bridge between picture books and chapter books.
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And even in getting him to read, so he loves being read to.
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He's a bit more reluctant to read himself.
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His reading is really good.
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He's just la- I think it's just laziness, and he just likes being read to.
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but we quite often with a graphic novel, I'll get him to pick one of the characters.
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So I'll say,"Right, you pick the character that you wanna read," and then we'll read the whole thing.
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I'll do most of it, but he will read that one character, so he's still getting some practice,
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Yeah,
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and that was a really way of kind of involving him, which is, is you can't really do with a chapter book.
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It's really, but with a graphic novel it's really obvious every time that
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you'd often, sometimes you don't find out who's wr- well, o- often you don't find out who's saying something till the end.
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Obviously, you're making an inference.
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But if you're reading aloud, like when you get it wrong, you're like,"Oh, that was the wrong voice.
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Let's do that again."
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I get, I'm like,"Oh, that was supposed to be the, the, American accent that I'm doing." It's, I do a
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I thought someone else was talking.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's much clearer, in a graphic novel, I agree.
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And I think that it's great that although they were introduced as a kind of bridging the gap, that you've seen the value in them continuing beyond that, that they're just part of his kind of reading
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Yeah, and they're just, they're, it's, I think it's just they're just another format to enjoy reading from.
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I think there's, people feel like, it's people like,"Oh, but they don't do this and this," and I'm not, I'm not saying we should only read graphic novels, and I'm not saying we should only read books.
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It's like, why can't you just bring both into the reading that you do?
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And I think there's, there's also such just joy.
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I love visual storytelling, and that's what picture books do.
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It's the visuals enhance the storytelling.
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That is what graphic novels do.
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The visuals are there to add to the storytelling.
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And, my son and I are both obsessed with the Lightfall graphic novels by Tim Probert, which I, they, I just inhale them and then my son wasn't interested.
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And I do this thing sometimes I leave things on the steps outside his room, and he was like,"Oh, what's that?" I'm like,"Oh, no, no, Louis, that's not for you.
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That's, um,
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Sorry, I put that in the wrong place
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this is an older, this is for, like, at least nine-year-olds." So, I, this is when he was six.
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I was like,"This is too advanced for you, so I'm, this is only, this is Mommy's graphic.
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You can't read this." And he immediately was like,"I wanna read it," like,"Read it to me." And I was like,'Ha ha ha, my evil plan has worked.' but he just sat there, and I read for 45 minutes straight, and at the end of it, I was thinking, this was...
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'Cause the Lightfall is quite a complex fantasy quest.
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I was thinking, this, I think this has gone over his head, like, this is complicated.
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And at the end of it, I sort of said,"Oh," like,"what do you think is happening?" And he was just like,"Oh, there's this,, you know, there's Kest and he's trying to extinguish all the lights in the world, and they don't..." And he kind of just summed it, and I was like,"Oh, no, you, you've entirely got it." But I think that is the pow- I think if that had been a fantasy book of that level of complexity, I think he'd have struggled.
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But there's such powerful visual storytelling in Lightfall, and there's sections where whole parts of the story has no text, and there's other bits that are really text-heavy.
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So I think because of the visual element, he was able to get on board with a story that complex in a way that he wouldn't have done if it hadn't been a graphic novel.
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We then read all three books, and he was like,"When's book four coming out?" And I was like,"There isn't a publication date." And he was just like,"What?
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What, what do you mean?" Like,"What, where's..."'Cause I think at that age, he had not encountered the, oh, no, the sto- we don't know when, so, um, when book four came out.
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Um, so yeah, that, that was a bit of a rude awakening to, oh no, this, the story isn't complete and I don't know when the
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someone's somewhere in a roo- dark room drawing away trying to trying to make
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also, yeah, Tom was also, he has a sense that I, I know other authors, so he's like,"Can you not tell the author to hurry up?" I'm like,"I, I don't know Tim Probert, and I don't think that would help."
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Yeah.
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It's re- I think as well we've been spoiled by the, the kind of model that David Fickling Publishing have where they're, they've got a very large back catalog of, of content from The Phoenix that then...
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So, like, Bunny vs.
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Monkey was coming out really rapidly because they were chunking up comic strips that already existed and had done from 10 years' worth of publishing in The Phoenix.
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Um, and yeah, we're m- not used to waiting for,
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Yeah.
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But I think, it's good.
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I think,'cause I think
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The
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generation is so used to...
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Yeah, they're so used to just being able to binge-watch and everything's there.
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I was like, actually having to wait a year to find out what happens, this is maybe a g- a valuable life experience
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Yeah.
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'Cause we used to only have, you know, four TV channels.
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Um, I'm always trying to tell my children that, who couldn't be less interested in how many TV
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No.
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And you're like, and if
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And if you went out, it was,"Oh, you've missed it."
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Yeah or you had an hour on a Saturday afternoon, and that was it
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You spoke about, you being a writer, having these contacts, from your son's perspective.
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But it'd be really great to hear a little bit about your, y- your kind of dual careers as both a writer and as an influencer, and how they kind of cross over or, and, and how they came about.
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I'd just love to hear a- about your background.
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I'm sure everyone listening would as well.
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So yeah, it was, it's interesting'cause I had no intention to be a children's author.
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I had no intention to be a book influencer either.
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But I, when I was on maternity leave, I sort of, I started to do a bit of reading into my, um, Black identity, I think just in my late 30s.
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So I'd, uh, I read the brilliant book, Natives by Akala.
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I'd read British by Afua Hirsch, and that had sort of kind of planted this seed that I really didn't know much about Black British history.
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I kind of internalized this narrative that Black people were enslaved and then arrived with Windrush in 1948.
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That was kind of what I, what I'd sort of taken from my education and everything since then.
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So I ended up reading, um, this book called Black Tudors: The Untold Story by Miranda Kaufmann on maternity leave.
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I don't know why I would pick this up on maternity leave.
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I was mainly watching Love Island at two o'clock in the morning whilst doing night feeds.
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So I don't know how I went from that to like, oh, I need to read a really serious historical nonfiction book.
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But I found it absolutely fascinating.
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So it tells the story of p- different people of African descent who were alive during the Tudor period in England, and I had no idea that there were people who looked like me in Tudor times.
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And I think because my son was born, I was like, so I sort of was like, okay, and now I need all the books on Black British history.
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But my son's been born, so I think I naturally then started also looking at the children's books that were around, and I found some absolutely brilliant ones.
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There still needs to be more.
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I'm sure that there are more books on sharks for kids than there are Black British history, really honestly.
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Yeah,
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I kind of, I s- I started looking at that, but also I didn't like history growing up.
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Um, I really hated it at school, and I didn't really read nonfiction.
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I was very into adventure and sci-fi and fantasy.
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So I started then looking for the kind of historical fantasy, historical fiction books,'cause I'm like, oh, there must be loads that are exploring Black British history in different ways, and I found maybe five.
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And I remember thinking, I don't think that's enough, or like, I don't think that's good enough.
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so I kind of got this earworm.
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I was like, well, what if I could explore some of these stories from Black Tudors, but through time travel?
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'Cause I love Doctor Who, and who doesn't want a time machine?
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And also, then it's, like it's not historical fiction, it's time travel.
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So, so like, and I think in my head, I was like, I'm not a historian.
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I can't write a book about, I can't write a historical fiction book, but if it's time travel, that's absolutely fine.
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that made sense.
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Stories you told yourself.
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that is the story I needed to tell myself in order to do it.
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Um, so I kind of pretended I wasn't writing it for a long time,'cause I was like, I have a career in marketing.
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I've just become a mom.
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This is a bad time, and COVID had just hit as well.
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I was like, this is a very bad time to start deciding to do a very time-consuming side hustle as a children's author.
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but I ended up writing it, and then worked on it on and off over the years and, but I started to give it to, friends who had kids that age.
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I'd given it to a few primary school teachers, and I'd got some really good feedback, so I was like, okay, well, I don't think my writing's terrible.
00:15:45.995 --> 00:15:47.696
There's something here.
00:15:48.265 --> 00:15:52.645
But I went out to query with it and just had a massive wall of silence for 18 months.
00:15:52.645 --> 00:15:55.436
It was literally just like screaming into a void.
00:15:55.936 --> 00:16:04.855
Um, so I was kind of feeling very dejected, but I had a chat with a friend of a friend who was a self-published author, and I think it was like a light bulb went off.
00:16:04.855 --> 00:16:12.655
I think I'd been, I'd been waiting for permission, for someone to give me permission to be an author, and I suddenly realized I could give myself permission.
00:16:13.836 --> 00:16:19.216
And I think because I felt like there was a reason for these books to exist, I'm like, there are not enough books on Black British history.
00:16:19.216 --> 00:16:28.426
There are not enough fictional books on Black British history, and there were no kind of non-historical fiction books that like time travel, kind of looking at it from a different angle.
00:16:28.426 --> 00:16:29.855
So I was like, okay, well, there's...
00:16:30.225 --> 00:16:32.046
I think that just sort of kept me going.
00:16:32.475 --> 00:16:45.875
Um, so the first book, Time Travel Travellers and the Silk Thief, came out in 2004, and I think when I knew I was gonna self-publish, I realized that no one was gonna care or know, apart from friends and family, that I'd published a book.
00:16:45.875 --> 00:16:47.466
So I
00:16:47.611 --> 00:16:50.131
have that marketing machine around you that you might...
00:16:50.131 --> 00:16:55.432
I mean, it's quite hit and miss which books are marketed and which books aren't within traditional publishing, isn't it?
00:16:55.432 --> 00:16:59.741
But i- but at least you think, you know, think there's some kind of machine there that might, that might do that
00:16:59.744 --> 00:17:05.114
Or at least distribution or, yes, there's, there's something to help you, and I thought no one is going to know.
00:17:05.203 --> 00:17:10.074
So, you know, with-- I do marketing as a, that's been my job for sort of 25 years.
00:17:10.084 --> 00:17:37.114
So I thought,"Well, I should start on Instagram and TikTok and try and build up some kind of awareness of who I am." And because I've been reading so many amazing kids' books since I started deciding to write for kids and, and absolutely fall in love with middle grade books, plus I'd read all these books on Black British history, I was like,"Well, it makes sense for me to start sharing those books because people who'll be interested in those books will be potentially interested in buying mine." So that's literally how it started.
00:17:37.114 --> 00:17:45.473
I was like, I'll start sharing reviews of all these amazing children's books, and they were largely all written by diverse authors that are Black authors, Brown authors.
00:17:45.534 --> 00:17:49.094
Like, all the representation I didn't see growing up, that's what I gravitated to.
00:17:50.253 --> 00:17:58.794
So that's kinda how it started, and then six months after building up a-- I mean, it took, I think it took me so long to get to 200 followers.
00:17:58.794 --> 00:18:01.104
Like, that was, that was the hardest thing.
00:18:01.114 --> 00:18:07.634
Going from zero to 200 felt like it was, it would take forever.
00:18:08.203 --> 00:18:11.644
It kind of the bigger you get, the easier it is to grow in some ways.
00:18:11.691 --> 00:18:22.730
And I'd also then made, not friends, but kinda got to know a lot of the other kids Bookstagrammers'cause I sort of been following them and engaging with them, and I'd been invited to a middle grade book club that one of them ran online.
00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:30.861
So I think when my book came out, when I then sort of messaged people and said,"Would you like a review copy?" They all kind of knew who I was.
00:18:30.861 --> 00:18:32.191
It wasn't like a cold call.
00:18:32.221 --> 00:18:40.644
Like, I had, I had built relationships, and that's so important., So I was really lucky that I had a lot of people that really, were really supportive,, from the get-go.
00:18:40.644 --> 00:18:45.144
And yeah, things have just grown from there, and the third book in the series is coming out in October.
00:18:46.015 --> 00:18:46.404
Amazing.
00:18:46.694 --> 00:18:50.298
Have you ever thought about Making them into a graphic novel
00:18:50.884 --> 00:18:53.273
I would love to, but I am terrible at drawing.
00:18:54.526 --> 00:18:56.885
There's other people available who could do that drawing for you.
00:18:56.885 --> 00:18:56.945
Anyone
00:18:57.594 --> 00:19:03.604
I mean, if, if anyone, if anyone was motivated to oh my God, I would love it.
00:19:03.673 --> 00:19:04.374
I would absolutely...
00:19:04.374 --> 00:19:04.523
I
00:19:04.551 --> 00:19:06.491
Sounds like it could really lend itself actually.
00:19:06.501 --> 00:19:06.832
Like
00:19:06.874 --> 00:19:12.453
I think it would, oh my God, it would be brilliant, and I can already see what the time travel vortex would look like.
00:19:12.723 --> 00:19:19.269
I think also I'm a big fan of, I quite like reading graphic novel adaptations of existing stories.
00:19:19.278 --> 00:19:24.259
So for example, there's a really great one, um, of Noughts Crosses by Malorie Blackman for teens.
00:19:24.396 --> 00:19:24.537
one
00:19:25.449 --> 00:19:26.578
that's really great.
00:19:26.621 --> 00:19:28.211
I'm a big fan of Octavia Butler.
00:19:28.290 --> 00:19:33.351
She's like one of my favorite speculative fiction authors who writes the books like Kindred and Parable of the Sower.
00:19:33.871 --> 00:19:47.250
But there's a duo, so there's a graphic artist, John Jennings, and I think it's Damian Duffy who does the adaptation, but they have turned a lot of her biggest books into graphic novels, and it's really interesting'cause her books are quite, like, they're tough subject matter.
00:19:47.540 --> 00:20:01.330
Like Parable of the Sower is this dystopian tale of American society collapsing, and it's in some ways more brutal to read the graphic novel because you're visually seeing the horrors depicted, but it, but less in other ways.
00:20:01.340 --> 00:20:04.790
So yeah, I've, it's, it's just, it gives a different lens to the story.
00:20:04.790 --> 00:20:09.800
So I'm always really fascinated with the graphic novel adaptations of, books I already really know.
00:20:09.951 --> 00:20:12.520
So yeah, I would love, I would love Time Travel Travelers
00:20:12.593 --> 00:20:14.212
Yeah, that'd be great.
00:20:17.934 --> 00:20:26.884
It would be great to just unpick a little bit about, you know, where we're at in your view with, the diversity of representation within comics.
00:20:26.904 --> 00:20:34.055
We've, we've obviously seen a really big boom in comics and graphic novel publication over the last few years.
00:20:34.055 --> 00:20:38.035
There's a lot more titles available.
00:20:38.384 --> 00:20:41.134
What is your reflection on the diversity within that?
00:20:41.345 --> 00:20:46.394
Like, I have some I have some reflections which I'll add to the, to the conversation as well.
00:20:46.394 --> 00:20:49.045
I judge some, book awards and things like that.
00:20:49.144 --> 00:20:54.502
And so se- see a lot of titles that are submitted, and I'm just interested to know what you think, in terms of the breadth
00:20:54.582 --> 00:21:00.208
So I think it, it's, I think it's very much a reflection of just the broader industry.
00:21:00.208 --> 00:21:04.397
So representation is, has been, has improved in children's books.
00:21:04.428 --> 00:21:14.657
It's nowhere near where it needs to be, and there's certainly the statistics suggest that a lot of sticking plasters and platitudes were put in place in 2020 after George Floyd, but nothing structurally changed.
00:21:14.667 --> 00:21:17.208
So things have kind of slid backwards.
00:21:17.258 --> 00:21:25.788
And it, it, I was, I think it's almost we're at the point where there's been a couple of years where people felt the need to be seen to be doing something.
00:21:25.807 --> 00:21:30.298
My concern is I'm not sure they feel the same need to even be seen to be doing something anymore.
00:21:30.298 --> 00:21:31.188
So things are,
00:21:31.816 --> 00:21:35.846
There isn't that external driver because of the political climate at the
00:21:36.298 --> 00:21:38.387
It's making, Yeah it's making things worse.
00:21:38.576 --> 00:21:49.758
So I think, and I, so my reflection is when I've gone out trying to find graphic novels and comics by Black illustrators,, by Brown illustrators, I struggle.
00:21:49.807 --> 00:21:54.156
I think particularly as well with Black British, like there i- there is the, it's,
00:21:54.358 --> 00:22:06.038
it really, yeah, I was literally like, I was trying to find, I think I was trying to find a graphic novel for teenagers from a Black British illustrator, and I thought I'd found one.
00:22:06.038 --> 00:22:11.358
She lives in the UK, but I don't think she's British and that's like, but she, um, but I love her graphic novel.
00:22:11.358 --> 00:22:13.128
But I, I really, really struggle.
00:22:13.528 --> 00:22:24.749
So what that tells me is that, and I think the world of comics, even when I look at some of the adult comics that I read, it's been historically a very white male arena.
00:22:24.878 --> 00:22:40.442
And I think if it's bad in children's books, I, I think it's sort of magnified in, in comics and I think just generally, I think illustrators of color have struggled to get the same opportunities, whether it's illustrating books or whether it's as graphic novel illustrate, uh, artists.
00:22:40.451 --> 00:22:44.190
So when I find books, I sort of really cling onto them and I'm like, this...
00:22:44.259 --> 00:22:49.109
But then it ends up in every single recommendation poll because I just don't have that, many.
00:22:49.167 --> 00:22:50.708
the diversity there to choose from.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:59.319
Yeah and I, I look for a lot of queer graphic novels as well, and graphic novels from,, any, traditionally marginalized voice.
00:22:59.356 --> 00:23:04.224
But certainly in terms of like Black and, Black and Brown, graphic novel artists, I, yeah, I really struggle.
00:23:04.295 --> 00:23:07.035
I find some great ones, but there are not nearly enough.
00:23:07.077 --> 00:23:15.150
and I think especially with kids books, there are a lot of historical properties that are really big, which is great, but they do tend to dominate.
00:23:15.670 --> 00:23:20.288
When a, when a, a series of book or a, a character becomes a brand rather than...
00:23:20.489 --> 00:23:20.858
Yeah.
00:23:21.028 --> 00:23:21.288
Yeah
00:23:22.192 --> 00:23:32.633
So I think s- and then that sort of gets a lot of the shelf space, and I think because there's not a huge amount of shelf space in bookshops currently given to graphic novels, and I think it's improving.
00:23:32.873 --> 00:23:34.292
It's much better in the States.
00:23:34.292 --> 00:23:42.482
There's just, it's a much bigger selection in the States, and I think the market's a bit more developed, so you, there's room for more diversity just because there's more room.
00:23:42.482 --> 00:23:57.413
So I think the danger is if you've just got one small shelf in a smaller bookshop, they're gonna put the biggest selling long-running titles on there, and that means even when you do get great graphic novels by artists of color, they just, they don't tend to get a look in
00:23:57.413 --> 00:23:59.002
You have to be actively looking for
00:23:59.207 --> 00:24:01.787
You have to, yeah, you have to work to find them.
00:24:01.817 --> 00:24:06.186
And that's, and people don't wanna put time and effort into finding stuff.
00:24:06.186 --> 00:24:07.196
They have lives and things.
00:24:07.196 --> 00:24:18.507
And that's partly why I think what I do on social media is so important because I love championing diverse author books, and I wanna make it just easy for people to find stuff, and easy for people to say,"Yeah, that, my son will love that.
00:24:18.517 --> 00:24:28.416
My daughter will enjoy that." So if I can just, if I can take the friction out of it, then I think hopefully that is getting the right books into more hands,
00:24:28.646 --> 00:24:36.519
Yeah, I think as well, there can sometimes be a perception that, a Black or a Brown character in a book is there for people who are Black or Brown to identify with.
00:24:36.568 --> 00:24:39.469
Whereas actually our, our identities are much more complex than that.
00:24:39.729 --> 00:24:41.838
And there's, of course you can identify with characters.
00:24:41.838 --> 00:24:55.440
You know, so if I, you know, reflection, not a, an illustrated book, but not a comic, but that my son was really interested, it, to read was, was the Harry Kumar series because the character is, autistic, ADHD, and he's autistic and ADHD, and he had never come across a character.
00:24:55.690 --> 00:25:00.900
And, and he really identified really strongly with that character and learnt things that he had no idea about.
00:25:01.170 --> 00:25:03.240
About Bol- what Bollywood was, about, you know,
00:25:03.771 --> 00:25:05.162
I love Harry Koomar.
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:07.750
things that he had never come across before.
00:25:07.750 --> 00:25:16.673
So it was a really rich experience that he could both identify with a character and learn something new that was out- that's outside of his experience and, his immediate surrounding culture it's so valuable
00:25:16.804 --> 00:25:16.855
Absolutely.
00:25:16.855 --> 00:25:25.325
And also in most, and also people, people don't say that,"Oh, well my kid's not gonna identify with that'cause they don't have superpowers, they don't have laser eyes and they can't fly." Said no
00:25:25.669 --> 00:25:26.719
Or they're not a talking bear.
00:25:26.848 --> 00:25:26.979
Yeah.
00:25:27.644 --> 00:25:29.414
or they're not a talking bear or they're not a bunny.
00:25:29.414 --> 00:25:41.015
I mean, my son's, my son's very into Neil Cameron's Donut Squad, which I don't, I don't enjoy as much as Mega Robo Bros although I have become rather fond of saying,"Oi, oi jammy boy" just at
00:25:41.067 --> 00:25:41.737
Yeah, I love Jammy Boy.
00:25:41.737 --> 00:25:42.797
It's my favorite one
00:25:43.414 --> 00:25:44.315
It's oi, oi donut.
00:25:44.674 --> 00:25:46.055
But I'm like my son's not a donut.
00:25:46.255 --> 00:25:47.345
He's never gonna be a donut.
00:25:47.494 --> 00:25:50.005
He has a uniquely non-donut lifestyle.
00:25:52.724 --> 00:25:52.954
But
00:25:53.118 --> 00:25:56.828
Neil was not willing to answer my question about which donor he most identified with.
00:25:56.838 --> 00:25:57.749
He drew the line.
00:25:58.684 --> 00:26:01.724
Oh, I've never met him, but now I'm gonna, I'm now I'm gonna have a thing.
00:26:02.154 --> 00:26:14.012
I mean, I, the, the whole mum, the mum and dad doughnut and little Timmy, and the, just the, the the parent relationship dynamic between the mum and dad, that is my favorite thing in the whole universe at the moment.
00:26:14.053 --> 00:26:16.893
I'm just, I'm living, living for Mum Nut and Dad Nut.
00:26:17.032 --> 00:26:32.542
Um, but yeah, I think, I, no, I think to go back to your other point, I think you're completely right, and I think,'cause I think there's, there are universal things that kids are always gonna connect with, and then there are mirrors, or sort of windows rather, into worlds and experiences they don't know.
00:26:32.813 --> 00:26:45.445
I think also there's this danger, and actually Ramzi, who's a brilliant, author and illustrator, talks about this a lot, that characters of color when they turn up are supposed to be learning opportunities.
00:26:45.445 --> 00:27:02.086
They're suppo- you know, they're, they're only there to explain the trauma of their lives or to learn some, you know, really valuable and very worthy lesson and, and there's a lot of those stories that are very important, but also they should just be allowed to have fun and be silly and be unlikable and be a bit extra.
00:27:02.615 --> 00:27:08.046
They don't have to be there and signal worthiness in some way, or do you know what I mean?
00:27:08.056 --> 00:27:28.655
And I think there's a danger that when publishers are looking to commission stories like that, they're like,"Oh, okay, well, no, this is like, this is a South Asian story, so there must be something about the struggle of being South Asian in Britain, or the struggle of racism or being a..." And it's like, that doesn't always have to be the only story that people of color are allowed to tell, especially when it comes to comics.
00:27:29.455 --> 00:27:30.685
Yeah, 100%.
00:27:30.733 --> 00:27:46.699
Other reflections that I have there are more talking food items and more, heavily animal-based stories, than, than comics that feature real lives and just children's everyday experiences or fantasy genre featuring humans, of all different types.
00:27:46.709 --> 00:28:00.837
That, that, that is still a very slender section o- of what you're able to find, and that's not to say that those books don't individually have merit, but if you're looking across the whole industry about what's available, it's not hitting the mark yet, I don't think
00:28:01.155 --> 00:28:06.306
But yeah, I'm ever optimistic, but I do think, yeah, I do think things need to change.
00:28:06.316 --> 00:28:07.715
And I, and the problem is it's, it's not...
00:28:08.215 --> 00:28:14.105
I think what frustrates me slightly with the industry is they need to do more work.
00:28:14.145 --> 00:28:19.816
They, like, they need to go out and work out how they're finding these illustrators and nurturing and supporting their careers.
00:28:19.846 --> 00:28:27.715
You can't just put,"Oh, we're willing to receive more applications from diverse voices on your website." And they, and all the agents, and they do this.
00:28:27.715 --> 00:28:36.705
They all put hashtag diverse voices in your query, and I'm like,"Guys, that's not gonna cut it." You don't change, you don't move the needle by platitudes.
00:28:36.705 --> 00:28:45.246
You actually need to go and do some structural work and work out why people are not having careers, why they're not getting into the industry, and why they're not getting supported and platformed
00:28:46.372 --> 00:28:47.662
Yeah, definitely.
00:28:47.707 --> 00:28:59.568
shall we do the thing of making it easier for people to find some really good examples of comics and graphic novels that might, might be of interest to them?
00:28:59.608 --> 00:29:04.028
I'm super interested to what you're gonna come up with to share with us.
00:29:04.038 --> 00:29:10.109
So should we do age, age range and start with kind of younger readers?
00:29:10.748 --> 00:29:11.208
Yes.
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.220
Definitely a prevalence of animals and cutesy things in the
00:29:14.367 --> 00:29:15.248
There are.
00:29:15.258 --> 00:29:19.788
So I've I've tried to go for at least one example that isn't animals.
00:29:19.876 --> 00:29:27.136
and actually I will say this age group, so like five to seven years, is the one that I struggle the most to find good diverse representation.
00:29:27.146 --> 00:29:30.356
And that's for chapter books actually, as well as graphic novels.
00:29:30.356 --> 00:29:32.257
It just seems to be this age group.
00:29:32.547 --> 00:29:36.797
Better in picture books, better in middle grade books, and then it sort of nosedives in this area.
00:29:37.082 --> 00:29:40.544
but my favorite at the moment is Supernova, by Chante Timothy,
00:29:40.621 --> 00:29:43.090
I would love Chante Timothy to come on the podcast.
00:29:43.090 --> 00:29:43.740
I need to try and,
00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:45.570
Oh, well, no, you should definitely ask her.
00:29:45.641 --> 00:29:46.641
She's absolutely lovely.
00:29:46.641 --> 00:29:51.755
But this, this also, this book is very special for me, I think, because I was a Black girl scientist.
00:29:51.845 --> 00:29:53.473
I did biology at university.
00:29:53.473 --> 00:30:01.438
So this is all about Nova, who is, Nova's quite, she's very, like, I love how confident she is, and she's a little bit extra.
00:30:01.498 --> 00:30:03.948
She has a secret science lab in her house.
00:30:04.067 --> 00:30:09.486
she realizes that there's a plastic pollution issue,'cause she's watching something with her older sister who she absolutely hates.
00:30:09.486 --> 00:30:12.201
and she decides that she can solve the world's plastic crisis.
00:30:12.211 --> 00:30:19.031
So she goes and invents, in a kind of Frankenstein way, this little kind of cute pink monster called Chomp, and Chomp eats plastic.
00:30:19.432 --> 00:30:26.778
But Chomp eats all plastic, and Chomp doesn't listen to Supernova and kind of gets out of control and grows and nearly demolishes the entire city.
00:30:26.786 --> 00:30:30.675
and I also like she doesn't really get into that much trouble for, like, nearly demolishing the entire city.
00:30:30.675 --> 00:30:32.326
Her parents are like,"No, it's fine.
00:30:33.205 --> 00:30:33.685
We've, uh,"
00:30:34.056 --> 00:30:35.455
It was the ambition that counts
00:30:37.715 --> 00:30:38.546
Which is great.
00:30:38.546 --> 00:30:39.786
I love that for Nova.
00:30:40.114 --> 00:30:45.647
So there's some really nice messages about kind of the plastic issue, how you solve, what the issue is.
00:30:45.678 --> 00:30:55.837
But then it's, you know, you've got this kind of great Black girl scientist at the heart with these crazy inventions, and this creation of hers that just gets completely out of control and nearly annihilates everything.
00:30:55.875 --> 00:30:58.262
so there's something a bit anarchist about Supernova.
00:30:58.278 --> 00:30:59.241
but I really love it.
00:30:59.261 --> 00:31:01.211
It was, it's been really good for my son.
00:31:01.211 --> 00:31:03.291
And actually this is, it's also quite special to me.
00:31:03.291 --> 00:31:06.112
So my, my son never volunteers to read.
00:31:06.112 --> 00:31:27.518
Usually I'm like,"Okay, no, Louis, we need to practice your reading now." And I said to him, we were going to bed, it was about a couple of weeks ago, I said,"Oh, what book do you want me to read you?" And he said,"I'm gonna read to you tonight, Mommy." And I was like,"Who are you and what have you done with my son?" And he got Supernova out and he read the whole thing cover to cover, including the blurb on the back, including the acknowledgements and the instructions for how you draw Chomp at the end.
00:31:27.748 --> 00:31:40.431
Like, he was like,"I'm reading every word in this book." but even there's a bit where she's got the sound effects going,"No, no, no, no." It's written like, I don't know, 50 times in the background of one of the images.
00:31:40.431 --> 00:31:43.080
He read every single no in...
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.348
That's dedication.
00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:47.351
It's r- I sent the video to Chante.
00:31:47.971 --> 00:31:52.401
I was just like,"I just thought you'd like to appreciate my son is fully committed to reading every word
00:31:53.749 --> 00:31:55.318
You made the effort to put it on there.
00:31:55.338 --> 00:31:56.189
I'm- he's gonna read it
00:31:56.310 --> 00:31:57.191
Yeah.
00:31:57.510 --> 00:31:59.520
But it's, it's a really fun story.
00:31:59.520 --> 00:32:04.750
I'm really excited that there's gonna be a second one coming in the summer, I think, and a third one next year.
00:32:04.750 --> 00:32:05.451
So yeah,
00:32:05.643 --> 00:32:08.762
It's great to have a series as well, and it's not just, sort of, just a one-off.
00:32:08.782 --> 00:32:12.403
It's gonna You know, the character gets to stay, and you find, you know, new, new adventures.
00:32:12.403 --> 00:32:13.053
It's just great to see that
00:32:13.807 --> 00:32:14.277
Exactly.
00:32:14.317 --> 00:32:21.307
So yeah, so"Supernova" has been a big favorite in my house, and I think, I think, I mean, Chante, I keep telling her, she's, she's, she's winning awards with this book.
00:32:21.307 --> 00:32:25.415
Like, I think because kids are just responding so well to it.
00:32:25.429 --> 00:32:29.568
so yeah, I think it's an abs- and I really love that my son loves the character of Nova.
00:32:29.578 --> 00:32:31.038
He's a boy, she's a girl.
00:32:31.068 --> 00:32:36.588
I think there's too much obsession with kids having to only identify with their gender leading books.
00:32:36.588 --> 00:32:38.199
But Yeah he absolutely loves"Supernova."
00:32:38.208 --> 00:32:39.218
That is brilliant.
00:32:41.627 --> 00:32:44.299
So the o- this one is, this is animal-based.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:48.019
So this is, this is Blueberry and Pancakes,
00:32:48.596 --> 00:32:48.616
So
00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:49.423
which I really love.
00:32:49.523 --> 00:32:57.635
And this, this is really great for younger readers because the writing's in lowercase, which actually that can be a challenge with graphic novels.
00:32:57.781 --> 00:33:00.226
Yeah, it's actually quite hard to find lowercase writing
00:33:00.253 --> 00:33:01.903
kids, find it harder to read initially.
00:33:01.903 --> 00:33:05.124
So actually, the fact this is in lowercase, there's loads of sound effects in this.
00:33:05.124 --> 00:33:18.673
It's basically about a giant bunny called Pancake, a slightly neurotic worm called Blue, and a very over-organized frog called Barry, on adventures, which are usually just very ridiculous.
00:33:19.271 --> 00:33:26.192
I feel like it channels for me, Saturday morning cartoon energy of the, of like the'90...
00:33:26.201 --> 00:33:27.781
It's got, it- it's kind of a bit of a
00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:29.180
the Road Runner, Wile E.
00:33:29.761 --> 00:33:30.852
exactly.
00:33:31.961 --> 00:33:43.602
I feel like it's, sometimes in the category for younger readers, and because you need to keep things simple for them to be able to follow the sort of flow of panels, sometimes it can be very repetitive.
00:33:43.612 --> 00:33:45.181
But I think it does interesting things
00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:45.720
Yeah
00:33:45.797 --> 00:33:46.897
the comic-ness of it.
00:33:46.928 --> 00:33:49.958
Like, it uses comics in a interesting way.
00:33:49.958 --> 00:33:56.855
There's some really funny things where, like, a scream carries on over, like, multiple panels and things, that just, it's funny and it, it's engaging
00:33:56.873 --> 00:33:59.673
Yeah, and I just, I, I think we've read...
00:33:59.722 --> 00:34:10.472
It's, it's what, it's a testament to h- when you read a book over and over and over and over again with your child, if you're still, like, you as an adult, you're still getting stuff from it.
00:34:10.563 --> 00:34:28.563
Like, you're not rolling your eyes and going,"Do we really have to read this again?" Um, whereas, like, always, like, when my son was like,"Can we read Blueberry and Pancake?" I'm like,"I'm 100% here." There's also quite, there's, I think it's the, maybe the third one, which is they go to a balloon planet, which has sort of been created by Pancake.
00:34:28.722 --> 00:34:31.992
There's a whole meta thing about how you create a planet that you have to travel to.
00:34:31.992 --> 00:34:33.563
I don't really entirely understand.
00:34:33.563 --> 00:34:36.112
He sort of created this whole being of people, and it's sort of there.
00:34:36.112 --> 00:34:41.543
I feel there's a backstory that could be explored to how Pancake, the giant bunny, creates Balonia.
00:34:42.112 --> 00:34:51.833
But at the end it says,"Can you find all these tiny balloon animals?" So we've gone back through the pages to find, and there's one we cannot find, and I'm convinced it's not even in there.
00:34:51.833 --> 00:35:00.833
And I'm, I actually, I spent, like, half an hour in my, like, having a coffee at lunchtime being like,"I'm gonna find this balloon animal." I can't find it.
00:35:01.233 --> 00:35:02.612
It's driving me mad.
00:35:04.349 --> 00:35:04.409
That's
00:35:04.422 --> 00:35:07.463
So yeah, Dan and Jason, who wrote it, I need, I need Dan.
00:35:07.483 --> 00:35:09.422
I might, I might just DM them and go,"Guys,
00:35:09.938 --> 00:35:10.739
Where is this?
00:35:10.829 --> 00:35:11.639
I'm losing my mind.
00:35:11.668 --> 00:35:11.909
Yeah.
00:35:13.463 --> 00:35:21.391
Put me out my misery." but yeah, so Blueberry, and I think there's about five out, but I think they, they've all come out in the US, so I think they're bringing them out quite rapidly.
00:35:21.407 --> 00:35:26.612
so yeah, it's a really fun series, and I've gifted this to quite a lot of my son's friends as well for birthdays'cause it's,
00:35:26.746 --> 00:35:28.876
It's not one that's widely known, I don't think.
00:35:28.876 --> 00:35:31.630
It's, yeah, but it's probably people who know it love it
00:35:31.635 --> 00:35:32.326
it's so fun.
00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:37.679
my next one is, it's maybe a tad old for this age group, but I did read it to my son when he was six.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:53.206
It's one of the weirdest comics I have ever come across, and that is, Squid Happens: The Adventures of Team Pom It's, it's, it- so I found this in the library a couple of years ago,
00:35:53.724 --> 00:35:54.315
Flying Eye, published
00:35:54.347 --> 00:35:54.556
was...
00:35:54.824 --> 00:35:55.425
Eye, right?
00:35:55.465 --> 00:35:55.744
It,
00:35:55.797 --> 00:35:58.827
Yeah, it's, it's, it's gonna sound weird.
00:35:58.867 --> 00:36:14.226
So you've got three, three girls who kind of meet and bond and form a synchronized swimming team, which is quite, it's quite an interpret- yeah, it's quite an interpretive synchronized swimming team, but they aren't really getting a look in because their approach to synchronized swimming is a little random.
00:36:14.577 --> 00:36:17.190
But then you've also got this, it's avant-garde.
00:36:17.195 --> 00:36:21.885
There's a group of kids that are part of the Peanut Butter Mafia, I think it is.
00:36:21.974 --> 00:36:22.804
Something to do with that.
00:36:23.094 --> 00:36:27.775
And then basically you've got this evil mouse and his m- well, I don't know, is the...
00:36:27.775 --> 00:36:33.304
Oh, I can't remember if the main guy is a mouse, but they've got these mice henchmen, which are on a mission to retrieve something for their evil boss.
00:36:33.304 --> 00:36:37.744
But a squid that they need for an ingredient for this, is it anti-aging beauty cream?
00:36:37.974 --> 00:36:39.505
Anyway, the squid goes missing.
00:36:39.514 --> 00:36:46.815
The squid ends up being found by the three girls and is co-opted into their synchronized swimming team whilst these two mice henchmen...
00:36:46.835 --> 00:36:49.445
It's, it's just really, really weird.
00:36:49.695 --> 00:36:51.394
But I abs- and there's a sequel.
00:36:51.434 --> 00:36:54.275
It's one of the most wonderful things,
00:36:54.806 --> 00:36:57.135
It has a really distinct art style as well, like,
00:36:57.135 --> 00:36:58.003
It's quite retro
00:36:58.327 --> 00:37:07.083
yeah, it's, which is really interesting, and also maybe that's sort of part of why I feel like it might be borderline on that age group as well, I think it's a good one to share with younger readers
00:37:07.668 --> 00:37:12.168
Yeah, I think'cause it's just, I think young kids do enjoy things that are just a bit weird and
00:37:12.228 --> 00:37:16.798
Yeah, especially, yeah, if you've got a child that sort of delights in the absurd as well,
00:37:16.947 --> 00:37:17.646
Yes.
00:37:17.717 --> 00:37:20.836
Then they will love Team Pom, Squid Happens.
00:37:20.876 --> 00:37:24.396
And just as an adult, just so much to enjoy in that.
00:37:27.034 --> 00:37:28.215
Shall we go to middle grade readers?
00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:35.931
Yeah, so my new obsession for this age group is Ramsay and Claude Tee's, Rex Power: Fear of the Invasion Bugs
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:36.900
This is new to me.
00:37:36.969 --> 00:37:39.309
I kn- I know Ramsay's work, but I don't know...
00:37:39.309 --> 00:37:40.280
I'm gonna write it down.
00:37:40.344 --> 00:37:41.954
So I think Ramsay wrote this.
00:37:41.954 --> 00:37:44.164
I think Claude TC is the illustrator.
00:37:44.534 --> 00:38:01.114
So this is, I took this away on a weekend, and I was gonna read this on the train, and my son was reading something else, and he sort of looked over the seat and he was like,"What are you reading?" I was like,"Nothing." Anyway, I read it, this book to him four times, I think, over the weekend.
00:38:01.474 --> 00:38:11.623
It's about a kid called Cory, who basically, I think from an adopted Somali family, so he is trying to save his adopted brother from being bullied one evening.
00:38:12.164 --> 00:38:17.184
Sort of steps in to save him, and then accidentally gets in the way of an alien bounty hunter takedown.
00:38:18.514 --> 00:38:26.434
So this kind of evolved alien bounty hunter T-Rex type figure is trying to, take down an evil villain called Zordax.
00:38:27.173 --> 00:38:28.514
Cory interrupts it.
00:38:28.523 --> 00:38:37.434
There's a terrible blast, and he ends up having the, T-Rex's consciousness fused into his mind, so he's now got a T-Rex alien bounty hunter living in his brain.
00:38:39.293 --> 00:38:41.414
But can also kind of morph into his body.
00:38:41.474 --> 00:38:43.103
There's some complicated science going on.
00:38:43.103 --> 00:38:56.143
But mean- meanwhile, Zordax has escaped and has basically made Catford in South London his headquarters, and is using these bugs to kind of create fear and take over the world from Catford.
00:38:56.193 --> 00:39:07.324
And so Cory has to sort of make peace with this Rex tyrannosaur bounty hunter in his head and take Zordax down, and it's just brilliant.
00:39:07.353 --> 00:39:13.784
There's some really amazing kind of spreads in here, like the, there's a lot of just weird alien bug stuff.
00:39:13.784 --> 00:39:20.143
But there's also, I think, so there's loads of like fun sci-fi adventure and, you know, evil bugs taking over the world.
00:39:20.153 --> 00:39:25.454
But there's also a joke about avocados and gentrification that I just nearly wet myself at.
00:39:26.193 --> 00:39:30.664
I've never seen avocados used in such a brilliant way in literature, ever.
00:39:31.123 --> 00:39:34.873
But also there's this really lovely relationship between Cory and his adopted brother.
00:39:34.873 --> 00:39:38.793
So Cory's like worried that his family don't want, his foster family don't want him.
00:39:38.793 --> 00:39:45.893
He sort of misinterprets something, and it's his foster brother that sort of makes him realize that no, he is loved and they do want him in the family.
00:39:45.893 --> 00:39:46.884
So there's this really,
00:39:47.302 --> 00:39:47.322
as well
00:39:48.173 --> 00:39:51.443
yeah, there's this really gorgeous brother dynamic at the heart of it.
00:39:51.454 --> 00:39:53.653
But it is, it's just huge amounts of fun.
00:39:53.664 --> 00:39:56.903
So I'm really hoping there'll be more Rex Power because I, yeah,
00:39:56.907 --> 00:39:57.478
That's great.
00:39:57.478 --> 00:39:58.387
I'm gonna get a hold of that.
00:39:58.387 --> 00:39:58.858
That sounds brilliant
00:39:59.440 --> 00:39:59.990
I love the...
00:39:59.990 --> 00:40:03.860
It's not the kind of illustration style I generally go for, but I really, really loved it
00:40:04.693 --> 00:40:07.112
What's the, uh, kind of illustration style that you generally go for?
00:40:07.311 --> 00:40:09.431
I like watercolors, subtlety.
00:40:09.431 --> 00:40:11.061
I quite like black and white.
00:40:11.311 --> 00:40:15.492
I really like the sort of slightly vintage matte style of Squid Happens.
00:40:15.492 --> 00:40:17.931
That tends to be more what I'm drawn
00:40:18.030 --> 00:40:18.469
I want to.
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:19.920
Yeah
00:40:20.061 --> 00:40:22.989
and I really love kind of big panels that sort of take it in.
00:40:22.989 --> 00:40:27.768
So I don't usually go for the very busy, there's lots happening, there's loads of action.
00:40:28.081 --> 00:40:37.478
but it may be just'cause I hadn't found it in the right story because I think that kind of busy action, eyes drawn everywhere is very much Rex Power, and I really liked it in that graphic novel
00:40:37.731 --> 00:40:38.161
Amazing.
00:40:38.202 --> 00:40:39.181
What else have you got for us?
00:40:39.353 --> 00:40:43.791
I also, this is for slightly, slightly older middle grade readers, so maybe
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.070
We've put middle graders eight, eight to 12,
00:40:46.130 --> 00:40:47.269
so this is Squire.
00:40:47.269 --> 00:40:50.320
So this is by Sara Alfageeh and Nadia Shammas.
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.210
So I think it's a Jordan American, um...
00:40:53.266 --> 00:40:55.085
has been a guest on the podcast before.
00:40:55.469 --> 00:40:56.019
amazing.
00:40:56.030 --> 00:40:57.079
I will listen to that back.
00:40:57.099 --> 00:41:02.146
And then Nadia Shammas, I think, is a Palestinian American But I really, I loved Squire.
00:41:02.146 --> 00:41:04.550
It's about a girl who's, It's a fantasy.
00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:17.065
It's a girl who's in a kind of a tribe or group that is minoritized and ostracized in her world, but she longs to join, the knights who are kind of the heroes of the realm, and she really wants to be, a squire.
00:41:17.065 --> 00:41:25.605
So she kind of enlists to train as a knight, only to realize the, the world is very different to she imagined, and the role of the knights is very different.
00:41:25.605 --> 00:41:34.434
So it's kind of about colonialism, and power, and indoctrination, and this one girl's kind of fight against it.
00:41:34.445 --> 00:41:37.704
But yeah, um, yeah, I really loved this.
00:41:37.724 --> 00:41:43.105
It's, it's a big, it's a big chunky graphic novel, but you kind of just get so immersed into this world.
00:41:43.105 --> 00:41:44.144
it's really beautifully
00:41:44.280 --> 00:42:02.907
it's a really immersive world and the, um, and the kind of the landscape and the details that go into the creation of that world, but that just, it all just fits, and y- you're just lost within the world, I think, when you're reading it.
00:42:02.956 --> 00:42:04.876
Yeah, I think it's gorgeous
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:14.514
Yeah, so I think Squire is, especially for fantasy lovers, I think if you've got kids that enjoy fantasy, I think, yeah, Squire, Squire is amazing.
00:42:14.514 --> 00:42:19.001
And then I think my final one is, oh, there's so many.
00:42:19.103 --> 00:42:23.043
I'm very obsessed with, two artists called, Jez and Syn Winboa.
00:42:23.043 --> 00:42:30.083
So they are, I don't know which country they live in, but they wrote a beautiful graphic novel called Luna Boy, stunning.
00:42:30.103 --> 00:42:35.253
They're also the illustrators of a really other great one by Tony Weaver Jr.
00:42:35.523 --> 00:42:40.563
called Weirdo, which was a recommendation from the US, but it's quite easy to get here, so I would recommend that.
00:42:40.563 --> 00:42:52.496
But Luna Boy is about a boy who's born on the moon, and his mother sort of finds him on the moon, adopts him, and they live in a space station, but then they kind of move back to to Indonesia.
00:42:52.635 --> 00:42:59.396
And so it's about how he copes, and he's also trans, how he copes with settling into this kind of blended family.
00:42:59.686 --> 00:43:23.375
So there's a lot about the Indonesian language and heritage and coming of age and the clash of different cultures, but also him, he sort of feels like the moon is talking to him and calling him back to the m- moon and it's like, does he feel like he fits in enough with his blended family and on Earth, or does he feel like he has to go back and live in isolation on the moon?
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:29.067
so it's just this really beautiful story of kind of identity and belonging, in this sort of sci-fi.
00:43:29.077 --> 00:43:36.746
And The color palette's very kind of pinks and purples and blues and creams, almost, uh, sort of a Luna-esque element.
00:43:36.755 --> 00:43:48.445
So it's, I qui- I quite like graphic novels that don't just use the whole color palette, but, like, we're taking this palette of colors and we're using colors in a very specific way to highlight different elements of the story.
00:43:48.454 --> 00:43:51.574
So yeah, Luna Boy is, is one of my favorite graphic novels.
00:43:51.576 --> 00:43:53.369
I think it's just stunning.
00:43:53.369 --> 00:43:57.474
but I think as a, as an illustrator duo, really beautiful work
00:43:58.277 --> 00:43:58.358
Great.
00:43:58.378 --> 00:43:59.878
I'm definitely gonna get hold of that.
00:43:59.918 --> 00:44:02.777
Have you ever read any Tillie Walden comics?
00:44:03.391 --> 00:44:03.791
I don't think
00:44:03.858 --> 00:44:06.307
Tillie, so I would say it, that...
00:44:06.577 --> 00:44:23.340
Probably thought of as being a creative for adults, uh, but I think YA as well, makes really beaut- sort of crosses over, like, a lot of fantasy kind of elements in, a lot of, exploration of LGBT identity.
00:44:23.570 --> 00:44:32.469
There's this, my, one of, I think one of my favorite comics of all time is, Love This Part, and it's about this kind of burgeoning relationship between two teenage girls.
00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:38.260
And in it it's a metaphor throughout, which, in that they're, they're massive, they're, they're giant.
00:44:38.269 --> 00:44:45.679
They're like, they're, it's just it's their two interactions, and they're always, like, as big as the buildings around them., They're drawn as being very large with the landscapes.
00:44:46.030 --> 00:44:51.130
And it's almost like this kind of metaphor for the early days of a relationship with each other, and you're, like...
00:44:51.429 --> 00:44:59.079
It is stunning and from the things that you've said that you like, I think that you would really It's one of my favorite comics creators.
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:03.889
and they, also I like the fact,'cause I think I tend to binge graphic novels in one sitting usually.
00:45:04.059 --> 00:45:05.699
They never stay on my shelf for very long.
00:45:05.748 --> 00:45:06.278
Like, once I...
00:45:06.338 --> 00:45:13.489
Like, other books I will buy and I'll be like,"That's been there for two years, and I've still not read it." But graphic novels always, always get read.
00:45:13.548 --> 00:45:23.070
So teen ones I've got, so one of my favorite, illustrators at the moment is Lee Knox Ostertag, who I am just obsessed with his work.
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:23.929
I just...
00:45:24.019 --> 00:45:27.280
It's, um, a lot of exploration of gender identity.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.610
But his first book was, um, his first book was The Girl From the Sea,
00:45:31.623 --> 00:45:32.123
love that book
00:45:33.050 --> 00:45:34.090
which is just...
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:40.199
It's about a girl kind of falling in love with another girl, but she's a selkie, from the sea, so there's environmental messages in it.
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:46.260
But, um, but they, and the cover's sort of got this, um, this gree- like a turquoisey green and pink, and there's something...
00:45:46.989 --> 00:45:52.646
The, I don't know, the way color is used in here, it's quite aquatic, a lot of the time.
00:45:52.646 --> 00:45:56.996
And, and there's some really, I love the way that there are text messages between the girl friendship groups.
00:45:57.016 --> 00:45:59.476
So it's very, it's a very good book for teens.
00:45:59.476 --> 00:46:01.226
It's not like young adult for actually adults.
00:46:01.226 --> 00:46:03.246
It's like, it's proper young adult for teens.
00:46:03.257 --> 00:46:14.896
It's all about that kind of friendship groups, not wanting to stand out, worrying what people are gonna think about you, but also meeting someone that kind of makes, gives you butterflies in your stomach for the first time.
00:46:14.943 --> 00:46:18.903
but I re- the, but The Girl With Sea is sort of really charming and really beautiful.
00:46:18.943 --> 00:46:42.688
And then at the other end, there's an amazing graphic novel he's done called The Deep Dark, which is, So it's about Mags, who is living with her grandmother, and there's some kind of family secret that you, there's, she ends up having to go down to the basement every night, and she comes back up and her hand is bandaged, and you don't know why, but it's something that is tethering her to her house, so stopping her from being able to move on.
00:46:42.688 --> 00:46:51.559
She's sort of having sex with a girl who's sort of dating one of the guys in school and keeping it a secret, so there's just a lot of kind of hiding things, and hidden secrets happening.
00:46:51.579 --> 00:47:05.429
And then a kind of a blast from the past, a girl that she knew growing up turns up and kind of, sort of blows things open, um, and brings her, and brings the secret that is biting her that is in the basement out into the light.
00:47:05.498 --> 00:47:10.548
Um, and it's re- it's c- it's a very dark fantasy novel, but it's stunning.
00:47:10.548 --> 00:47:12.478
And again, the color palette really reflects that.
00:47:12.518 --> 00:47:15.128
It's mu- you know, it's the opposite of The Girl With the Sea.
00:47:15.128 --> 00:47:18.088
It's a lot of dark, rich colors.
00:47:18.106 --> 00:47:20.065
but I, I just adored it.
00:47:20.074 --> 00:47:24.434
So I think anything by Lee Knox Ostertag, I'm just like, Yeah,
00:47:24.788 --> 00:47:26.483
Yeah, it's a great shout.
00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:35.822
I was gonna pick out as well for maybe the upper end of middle grade, possibly, younger, Unicorn Boy with Dave
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:37.559
Oh, I love...
00:47:37.849 --> 00:47:38.889
We've just got the second one.
00:47:38.889 --> 00:47:39.469
I love
00:47:39.532 --> 00:47:40.422
haven't read the second one yet.
00:47:40.501 --> 00:47:46.172
It's so good because I just, it, it, again, it's got that, it's not issues-based representation.
00:47:46.192 --> 00:47:47.251
It's a fantasy book.
00:47:47.251 --> 00:47:48.202
It's a comedy book.
00:47:48.211 --> 00:47:50.931
It's a, you know, classic portal story.
00:47:50.961 --> 00:47:51.922
But that, yeah, exactly.
00:47:51.952 --> 00:47:52.382
That sh-
00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:52.869
And also,
00:47:52.981 --> 00:47:53.922
living their life quite
00:47:54.269 --> 00:47:59.250
yeah, and the main charac- and I love that the boy is, like, a unicorn, and he has pink hair.
00:47:59.269 --> 00:48:12.230
Like, my son, uh, definitely, like, loved wearing pink T-shirts, but stopped because he felt like kids were saying,"Well, you, girls wear pink." So I think there's a lot of kind of playing with gender conventions in Unicorn Boy, plus there's a talking muffin.
00:48:12.478 --> 00:48:15.027
Yeah, which just comes out of nowhere and is hilarious.
00:48:15.670 --> 00:48:21.449
Yeah, and then there's the c- and the cats have a whole thing, and then basically there's, they go into the underworld.
00:48:21.489 --> 00:48:22.849
It's, yeah, it's a very...
00:48:22.849 --> 00:48:25.420
Again, there's a wonderful weirdness about Unicorn Boy.
00:48:25.429 --> 00:48:28.889
The second one especially is about a unicorn slumber party.
00:48:29.344 --> 00:48:35.182
I had to pull out a lot of Scottish accents,'cause it's basically set in Scotland, Scottish accents, I was like,"I am, I'm struggling with one.
00:48:35.322 --> 00:48:36.003
I'm not sure I can
00:48:36.641 --> 00:48:44.061
I once, I used to be a teacher and I once, I actually had to stop reading a book b- to the class'cause I was like, I didn't realize that they had voted for it and it was, like, completely...
00:48:44.061 --> 00:48:44.661
And I was like,"I can't.
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.130
I...
00:48:45.271 --> 00:48:47.471
G- guys, guys, I can't actually do this.
00:48:47.521 --> 00:48:47.690
This is,
00:48:48.358 --> 00:48:49.028
I cannot do
00:48:49.041 --> 00:48:49.744
this is, you're being traumatized.
00:48:49.744 --> 00:48:50.371
I'm being traumatized.
00:48:52.951 --> 00:48:58.681
Let's just maybe we'll get the audiobook and listen to somebody who actually can do a Scottish accent, and we will just leave it there.
00:48:58.681 --> 00:48:59.811
I need to move on."
00:48:59.811 --> 00:48:59.840
God.
00:49:02.090 --> 00:49:02.340
But yeah.
00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:05.570
no, unic- actually, I think Unicorn Boy is good for younger.
00:49:05.630 --> 00:49:12.791
Ba- I mean, based on my sons really enjoyed it at seven, so actually I think it, I think it's got good broad appeal.
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:14.860
I think, I think younger teens would still
00:49:15.181 --> 00:49:25.210
There's a dry sense of humor in it, which I think sometimes a younger reader might miss, but you still get the humor from the more obvious plot point, humorous plot points.
00:49:25.210 --> 00:49:26.740
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,
00:49:26.746 --> 00:49:27.577
plot points.
00:49:27.577 --> 00:49:28.293
Absolutely.
00:49:28.293 --> 00:49:32.847
And then so I'm looking at my shelf'cause there's so, uh, yeah, there's so many.
00:49:32.847 --> 00:49:40.744
I think I probably have slightly more actually young adult, um, books, but I'm, I'm a big fan of Bex, I think, is it Glendining, Glendinning?
00:49:40.764 --> 00:49:42.534
I'm not sure how you pronounce her surname.
00:49:42.925 --> 00:49:47.614
Um, so she is a Black queer illustrator who certainly lives in London.
00:49:47.644 --> 00:49:55.568
She's also, uh, was involved in a graphic novel called Brooms, which I am obsessed with.
00:49:55.568 --> 00:49:56.286
let me just get the...
00:49:56.297 --> 00:49:56.686
Hang on
00:49:57.125 --> 00:49:59.255
I'm getting my pencil again, writing that one down.
00:49:59.394 --> 00:50:00.045
Brooms
00:50:00.286 --> 00:50:02.757
Brooms is by Jasmine Walls and T.O.
00:50:02.797 --> 00:50:03.463
Duval.
00:50:03.463 --> 00:50:17.699
and this is set, it's a magic story set in 1930s Mississippi, where basically people of color who have magical powers are sort of ostracized and put in boarding school so they can essentially be controlled.
00:50:18.139 --> 00:50:20.230
So there's, it's kind of allegorical.
00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:26.668
Um, but there's, indigenous representation here, there's Black representation here, there's queer representation here.
00:50:26.697 --> 00:50:28.958
One of the characters speaks in sign language.
00:50:28.958 --> 00:50:40.137
but it's done just effortlessly, and essentially the get out or the, the one option to escape being controlled for two of the young Black girls learning magic is to join a magical broom racing team.
00:50:40.347 --> 00:50:44.777
So there are illegal broom races that happen under the radar of the authorities.
00:50:45.188 --> 00:50:46.858
So you've got...
00:50:46.867 --> 00:50:51.382
Then there's loads of other kind of stuff going on, but then you've got these kind of broom races, with these sort of,
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.798
Could just imagine how that would look on the page.
00:50:53.798 --> 00:50:54.869
That would be really cool
00:50:55.556 --> 00:51:03.217
So yeah, so it's quite, the illustration style is really pared back, but it's, yeah, it's absolutely amazing.
00:51:03.226 --> 00:51:07.657
And yeah, I just, everything about this I was like...
00:51:07.867 --> 00:51:22.012
But I think Bex Gleundining did the lettering, I think maybe for it, and then that ended up leading me to, or someone recommended On Starlit Shores, which is her, um, graphic novel, and this is just really beautiful.
00:51:22.012 --> 00:51:32.125
It's So you've got the main character in here, um, Alex, goes back to this town called Indigo Harbor to basically go through her grandmother's belongings.
00:51:32.135 --> 00:51:35.114
So her grandmother, who she really loved, has just died.
00:51:35.143 --> 00:51:37.655
and she's kind of having to return to her childhood home.
00:51:37.666 --> 00:51:42.068
But Indigo Harbor is a magical place, but Alex doesn't realize it's a magical place.
00:51:42.070 --> 00:51:50.065
and there's things about her grandmother's past that kind of start surfacing up that she, she has to deal with, but also things in the town are getting strange.
00:51:50.375 --> 00:51:51.824
Um, there are falling stars.
00:51:51.824 --> 00:51:53.855
There are sort of witches running into tea shops.
00:51:53.860 --> 00:52:00.817
and there's this woman's name, Elizabeth, that comes up again and again, who she's trying to uncover what that person's relationship was to her grandmother.
00:52:00.827 --> 00:52:10.956
So it's sort of about how you, how you process grief, how you deal with losing someone you loved, but also then how you react to finding out things about them that you never knew.
00:52:10.956 --> 00:52:15.447
There's a lot of sort of using kind of very monochrome.
00:52:15.447 --> 00:52:21.606
It's very kind of purples and burgundies and pinks almost quite dreamlike, but it's re- it's a really beautiful story.
00:52:21.646 --> 00:52:24.146
Um, and I very rarely see people talk about
00:52:24.282 --> 00:52:24.822
Yeah.
00:52:24.833 --> 00:52:30.472
It's not one that's come up, for me before, so that's really exciting to discover some new things from this conversation as well.
00:52:31.052 --> 00:52:32.652
Yeah, no, it's been absolutely lovely.
00:52:32.652 --> 00:52:38.938
I love talking about graphic novels and comics and, yeah, I rarely get to do so with someone who reads as many as I do, if not more
00:52:40.114 --> 00:52:48.570
So we usually end the podcast, to just pull out a takeaway or something to think about or a kind of actionable point, that people could, um, take away.
00:52:48.610 --> 00:52:54.639
Obviously, there's quite a clear actionable point, I think, from this, which is that if you've heard some books that you weren't familiar with today, go out and find them.
00:52:54.916 --> 00:52:58.623
did you have anything more broadly that you would like to say to the listeners?
00:52:58.704 --> 00:53:04.304
Yeah, I think it's, I've, so I think I've got three things that I think are my sort of bugbears when it comes to comics.
00:53:04.304 --> 00:53:07.043
I think don't treat comics as a genre.
00:53:07.103 --> 00:53:08.974
It's, like, it's a format.
00:53:08.994 --> 00:53:19.094
So just like books can span everything from talking animals to really complex explorations of history, I think comics can do the same.
00:53:19.094 --> 00:53:27.534
So I think if you s- if you think about them like that, that they are just the format, and it's about exploring the breadth and depth of them, I think that's really key.
00:53:27.563 --> 00:53:36.353
I think they can be really great for kids that maybe struggle to engage with books or struggle with reading, or in that kind of transition period.
00:53:36.353 --> 00:53:43.673
I think visual storytelling is really underrated in terms of how that can h- enhance reading and reading for pleasure.
00:53:43.686 --> 00:54:00.757
I think that comics have this ability, I think look at their ability to inspire creativity,'cause that's what I noticed with my son is when he's read a comic book or a graphic novel, he will start drawing something from it afterwards, and that doesn't happen so much with chapter books or text-based
00:54:00.927 --> 00:54:01.577
Completely agree.
00:54:01.967 --> 00:54:03.766
That's something that I love talking about.
00:54:03.766 --> 00:54:20.590
I'm really interested in, thinking about visual literacy from a creative side as well, when we're looking at visual texts, we are, we are being communicated with, we're having an emotional response, and we're taking on information, but we're also learning about creating images and how to communicate through image, and there's an output side of it as well.
00:54:20.590 --> 00:54:26.577
It happens so naturally often with children who are, are engaging with comics, that it's, it's a real...
00:54:26.617 --> 00:54:32.688
Also, as much as it's a gateway into, to reading often, it's also a gateway into writing for pleasure and s- and storytelling
00:54:32.824 --> 00:54:38.673
Yeah, abso-- and I think just'cause it's visual doesn't mean it's not valuable, um, in the same way.
00:54:38.673 --> 00:54:48.833
And like it's one of the things actually I started doing when I go in-- So, like one of the things I do with schools is I will do a little mini workshop on kind of, it's almost creating a blueprint for a time travel idea.
00:54:49.463 --> 00:55:00.018
But in order to make it more accessible,'cause I noticed there were some kids, who for v-various reasons might be struggling with writing or understanding, I will literally say to the kids, I'm like,"You can write this however you want.
00:55:00.057 --> 00:55:06.108
You can do bullet points, you can write sentences, or you can draw it." Like I don't, I was like,"I don't care how you put your ideas together.
00:55:06.108 --> 00:55:18.418
That's totally up to you." And so you will get a lot of kids who will just start drawing the ideas, and that way the storytelling just becomes-- Or, and then some kids will write their ideas, and then if they have time, then they'll start illustrating them.
00:55:18.827 --> 00:55:25.527
But it's been really interesting giving them that permission to say, actually this is cr- this is a creative session.
00:55:25.538 --> 00:55:30.297
This is not about, uh, whatever learning objective your teacher may have that's very important.
00:55:30.518 --> 00:55:33.668
So if you wanna draw your ideas, draw them.
00:55:34.378 --> 00:55:34.717
If you wanna
00:55:34.818 --> 00:55:35.358
great.
00:55:35.797 --> 00:55:37.407
And I think it really unlocks...
00:55:37.418 --> 00:55:50.347
If you think about how we start our, how we start communicating on paper, actually drawing is often one of the first things that happen If you talk to very young children about their drawings, there normally is something happening.
00:55:50.358 --> 00:55:51.797
Like, they're not just trying to represent.
00:55:52.077 --> 00:55:53.467
There is a story behind it.
00:55:53.467 --> 00:55:54.438
Like, this isn't that.
00:55:54.487 --> 00:55:55.467
There's, it's not just a person.
00:55:55.467 --> 00:55:56.068
It's somebody...
00:55:56.108 --> 00:56:00.518
They, they know who it is and what they're doing and where they've just been and and what's happening over there.
00:56:00.518 --> 00:56:09.297
And it also evolves, like, and then there's this over here, and now, so now I'm changing what my picture's about because it's kind of, it evolves as they add more things to it.
00:56:09.307 --> 00:56:16.494
There's, they kind of piece together a narrative, and that's what we see, like, children doing in the early years, and I feel like we should encourage that more to
00:56:16.782 --> 00:56:19.652
Yeah, I feel it sort of shut, it slightly shut down.
00:56:19.652 --> 00:56:25.492
It sort of all becomes about sentences and format and grammar and getting your adverbs in there, and it's like...
00:56:25.753 --> 00:56:39.913
And I know that's, I know that's important, it's foundational, but I feel like there could be more space for just the creativity part and exploring how you express things visually as well, because I think that, yeah, it just unlocks something different for kids
00:56:40.409 --> 00:56:40.829
Absolutely.
00:56:40.838 --> 00:56:47.148
I've been doing some I do run training called The Big Picture, which is all about visual literacy for t- for teachers, and I just delivered it yesterday.
00:56:47.398 --> 00:57:11.878
We were just talking about this very thing, about how to, keep the door open for,, for image and words going together for communication, and also for this kind of transmedia where, where children and young people want to take characters or scenarios from things that in the culture around them, like whether that be films, books, comics, and then bring them into their storytelling, which we often don't leave much space for.
00:57:11.878 --> 00:57:20.494
But it's actually a really normal response to processing the culture that you're surrounded by, to be able to go,"Okay, I'm gonna take this character.
00:57:20.704 --> 00:57:27.985
Your unicorn boy is now doing something else, and it's a story that I've got, I've got control of him in this world that I've created, and
00:57:28.068 --> 00:57:35.148
it's fan fiction and I think, yeah, kids should be allowed to do fan fiction because it's, you know, that's, that's a whole industry.
00:57:35.447 --> 00:57:36.657
Yeah, exactly.
00:57:39.291 --> 00:57:51.391
The final, final, final thing that we do on the podcast is if we were to add one book, so you've come up and had lots of recommendations today, but if we were to just add one book to our to be read piles, what would you recommend?
00:57:51.853 --> 00:57:53.364
yeah, I'm gonna say Luna Boy.
00:57:54.034 --> 00:57:55.494
Luna Boy by Jez and Sen Wimbua.
00:57:55.954 --> 00:58:02.094
I just think it's the most beautiful graphic novel and the most wonderful story, and yeah.
00:58:02.094 --> 00:58:05.523
And I'm just gonna stop looking at my shelf, otherwise I'll say more things.
00:58:05.614 --> 00:58:06.094
But yeah, I'm
00:58:06.349 --> 00:58:11.300
I'm gonna suggest one which I'm reading at the moment, which is a bit, bit different,'cause it, it has got comics in it.
00:58:11.346 --> 00:58:15.695
Which is Making Nonfiction Comics, the book's called.
00:58:16.206 --> 00:58:19.806
And, it is by Ellery Harris and Sarah Mirk.
00:58:19.925 --> 00:58:23.045
And it is so good.
00:58:23.045 --> 00:58:24.826
It's a step-by-step kind of guide.
00:58:25.155 --> 00:58:28.126
There's lots of different interviews with different nonfiction comic creators.
00:58:28.405 --> 00:58:30.065
Talks about comics journalism.
00:58:30.335 --> 00:58:43.099
Talks about how to do an interview, how to keep track of your sources, how to challenge, biases, how to ensure you're getting a, y- you know, that you're telling untold stories in your comics, and it's just a really...
00:58:44.389 --> 00:58:45.159
It's really cool.
00:58:46.710 --> 00:58:47.900
It's making me think.
00:58:47.949 --> 00:58:54.250
It's one of those things like, now I think I'm gonna be a nonfiction comic creator after t- after 20 pages.
00:58:54.260 --> 00:58:54.659
Like, yeah.
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:56.130
Oh, this is my new identity.
00:58:56.170 --> 00:58:56.739
Thank you for that one.
00:58:57.690 --> 00:58:58.039
But it's
00:58:58.043 --> 00:59:07.914
if I c- if I could draw, I mean, yeah, if I could actually learn how to draw, uh, I- my problem is I'm very good at, I can replicate things, but I'm not, I can't originate.
00:59:07.963 --> 00:59:11.384
My son is much better at originating, so I may, I may just train him up.
00:59:11.574 --> 00:59:12.643
In 10 years time
00:59:12.961 --> 00:59:16.532
He can be your, yeah, he can do all of your adaptations for you.
00:59:16.592 --> 00:59:17.342
That sounds great.
00:59:17.641 --> 00:59:19.192
But it's been absolutely brilliant to talk to you today.
00:59:19.192 --> 00:59:20.422
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
00:59:21.023 --> 00:59:22.054
Oh, thank you for having me.
00:59:22.063 --> 00:59:22.974
This has been such a pleasure.
00:59:23.034 --> 00:59:23.474
Thank you
00:59:26.077 --> 00:59:26.737
There you have it.
00:59:26.757 --> 00:59:30.648
What a great guest and what a strong list of recommendations.
00:59:30.668 --> 00:59:33.327
Some of them I knew and was a really big fan of already.
00:59:33.338 --> 00:59:38.057
Some of them completely new to me, and I'm definitely going to go and check those out.
00:59:38.068 --> 00:59:42.148
Really, really interesting wide range of titles there for us to explore.
00:59:42.398 --> 00:59:58.496
The first thing that caught my eye on Claire's Instagram feed was her recommending and just going into great detail about how great Neil Cameron's Mega Robo- Bros series Is, and I knew from that moment on that we were gonna get on like a house on fire because it's unbeatable.
00:59:58.505 --> 00:59:59.568
Such a great series.
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:08.777
my recommendation for today, I've already given some in the episode, but I'm also gonna flag, a new one that came across my path, this year, Unfairies by Hugh Aaron.
01:00:09.077 --> 01:00:09.757
It's funny.
01:00:09.858 --> 01:00:15.199
Great characters, really engaging storyline, and an interesting approach to artwork.
01:00:15.259 --> 01:00:18.083
I always am kind of led by the artwork.
01:00:18.083 --> 01:00:24.918
And it's more of a kind of watercolor and sketchy approach to artwork, which you don't necessarily always see in children's graphic novel category.
01:00:24.927 --> 01:00:26.847
And just really witty and engaging.
01:00:26.847 --> 01:00:28.456
Hugh Aaron's a great writer.
01:00:28.487 --> 01:00:31.409
Lots of really funny, engaging picture books, from him as well.
01:00:31.409 --> 01:00:32.398
So check that out.
01:00:32.429 --> 01:00:36.548
A Welsh author, illustrator, someone worth exploring a little bit more.
01:00:36.898 --> 01:00:39.940
And other news on new books, new books on the block.
01:00:39.951 --> 01:00:53.860
You may have also seen as well if you're following on social media, Comic Boom, comic_boom_podcast, that Helen Jones and I have a book out together called Comics in the Classroom, published by Routledge.
01:00:53.860 --> 01:01:02.840
It is now out and available to purchase, and it is all about using comics in the classroom from primary age right up through to key stage three.
01:01:03.141 --> 01:01:12.920
Lots of practical advice, lots of recommended titles, research-based, the evidence base for why, it can really improve outcomes in c- your classroom to start working with comics.
01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:22.376
There are things in there that you might not expect, like a section on sustainability, how we approached exploring themes of the environment through comics, thinking through comics,.
01:01:22.806 --> 01:01:36.375
We've got specific chapters on, the importance of diversity when exploring comics, and also accessibility in comics as well, and some of the challenges picked out in those as well, not just all the benefits, but, some of limitations, some of the things that need to be improved.
01:01:36.715 --> 01:01:39.065
So, a really practical guide for educators.
01:01:39.065 --> 01:01:42.155
Librarians and teachers will all find things, something of interest there.
01:01:42.744 --> 01:01:43.824
Worth checking out.
01:01:43.914 --> 01:01:48.204
But I would say that, but if you're listening to this podcast, definitely check that book out.
01:01:48.255 --> 01:01:52.164
You should be able to get it from your library as well as from your local bookshop.
01:01:52.394 --> 01:01:56.364
That's Comics in the Classroom by Lucy Starbuck-Bradley and Helen Jones.
01:01:56.719 --> 01:01:57.539
That's it for us today.
01:01:57.539 --> 01:02:02.159
You've been listening to Comic Boom, which is hosted and produced by me, Lucy Starbuck-Bradley.
01:02:02.170 --> 01:02:02.980
Thanks for listening.
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:15.259
Hello, and welcome to Comic Boom, the comics and education podcast.
00:00:15.449 --> 00:00:20.600
If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you.
00:00:21.019 --> 00:00:38.820
My name is Lucy Starbuck-Bradley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic, a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice, and hopefully shed some light on some titles you can bring into your libraries, classrooms, and onto your bookshelves at home too.
00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:43.570
today's guest is book influencer and author Claire Linney.
00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:45.880
You may have seen her on Instagram.
00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:48.560
I'm a big fan of Claire's content on there.
00:00:48.630 --> 00:00:56.590
She's passionate about the need for more stories that highlight people of African descent throughout British history and advocating for diverse representation in children's literature.
00:00:56.929 --> 00:01:02.899
Her series, Time Tub Travelers, aims to do just that as well, and they're brilliant reads, and we talk about that today.
00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:09.159
And of course, as you would expect for a guest on Comic Boom, Claire is a passionate reader of graphic novels.
00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:15.996
She'll be talking us through her top picks today and also talking about her experiences as a writer and a parent as well.
00:01:15.996 --> 00:01:17.340
Here's what Claire has to say.
00:01:21.284 --> 00:01:21.575
Hello, Clare.
00:01:21.605 --> 00:01:22.605
Welcome to Comic Boom
00:01:23.394 --> 00:01:24.855
Thank you so much for having me
00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:26.230
You are very welcome.
00:01:26.331 --> 00:01:33.787
I always start the podcast by, asking guests to tell us a little bit about their personal journey into comics.
00:01:33.807 --> 00:01:41.260
Everyone's different, discovers them at different age were they something that you got into as a child or something that you discovered later in life?
00:01:42.277 --> 00:01:46.016
I, I, dabbled very briefly with comics as a child.
00:01:46.027 --> 00:01:51.346
So my mom, who I love dearly and she's a legend, but was an English literary teacher.
00:01:51.936 --> 00:01:59.537
So, um, you know, was very keen on me reading the classics like Tess of the d'Urbervilles and less encouraging of me reading comic books.
00:01:59.537 --> 00:02:03.519
So I think I used to read comic strips like in magazines and newspapers.
00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:11.210
I think the Sunday Times used to have a pullout for kids, and this is the'80s, so this is a long time ago, and I think they had little comic strips.
00:02:11.342 --> 00:02:12.742
That, was it The Fun Day Times?
00:02:12.742 --> 00:02:13.802
Fun Day Times.
00:02:13.823 --> 00:02:15.212
Yes, Fun Day Times.
00:02:15.212 --> 00:02:16.712
So I remember the Fun Day Times.
00:02:16.729 --> 00:02:18.688
and then I used to have Calvin and Hobbes books.
00:02:18.688 --> 00:02:21.153
That was kind of, I loved the Calvin and Hobbes strips.
00:02:21.157 --> 00:02:24.776
but I don't think, I wasn't really encouraged to think of them as books.
00:02:24.776 --> 00:02:26.717
Like, they didn't really, they, they were something else.
00:02:26.717 --> 00:02:29.463
They were kind of just something for fun, like a distraction.
00:02:29.463 --> 00:02:32.163
No one ever gave me a comic book or a graphic novel.
00:02:32.163 --> 00:02:35.104
That wasn't, that wasn't a thing in my childhood.
00:02:35.614 --> 00:02:45.324
So I think it wasn't until I was, oh, probably in my late 20s, and it was probably to do with a guy that I was trying to date or fancied and was trying to be cool.
00:02:45.324 --> 00:02:47.313
And I'm, I'm sure it came from there.
00:02:47.313 --> 00:02:56.426
I don't know who, but I think I remember, I think I got Watchmen, graphic novel, which is kind of jumping straight in the deep end.
00:02:56.447 --> 00:02:57.757
Like, that's not, do you know what?
00:02:57.787 --> 00:02:59.317
That's not easing into it.
00:02:59.956 --> 00:03:02.467
Uh, and there's many things wrong with that graphic novel.
00:03:02.477 --> 00:03:06.354
It's problematic in so many ways, but I really loved it.
00:03:06.354 --> 00:03:07.616
I was like, oh, wow, this is...
00:03:07.616 --> 00:03:21.586
And I think it was the first time I'd sort of seen a whole narrative played out in that kind of, you know, in a comic rather than just like,'cause the Calvin and Hobbes are great, but they're, they're short amuse-bouches.
00:03:21.655 --> 00:03:23.485
of four-panel strips or, yeah
00:03:23.872 --> 00:03:25.443
Yeah, so that was the first thing.
00:03:25.453 --> 00:03:30.652
And so I read all that, then I thought,"Oh, this is interesting." And I think that kind of, that was my gateway.
00:03:30.652 --> 00:03:34.223
And then I think I went to Maus by Art Spiegelman, which was completely the opposite.
00:03:34.223 --> 00:03:38.353
But, um, that really opened my eyes, so I was like,"Oh, okay, this is just a format.
00:03:38.353 --> 00:03:45.323
It's not like this is just superheroes."'Cause I think there's a danger that people look at comics and they're like,"This is just, it's just superhero stuff.
00:03:45.342 --> 00:03:46.133
It's just Marvel.
00:03:46.133 --> 00:03:51.203
It's just DC." And I think having gone from Watchmen to Maus, I was like,"Oh, no, this is, like, historic.
00:03:51.252 --> 00:03:57.362
This is really serious historical fiction." Um, and Maus, for anyone who doesn't know, explores the Holocaust.
00:03:57.443 --> 00:03:58.832
And it's an amazing piece of work.
00:03:59.163 --> 00:04:05.782
And so I think from there I started to sort of look for,, kind of similar graphic novels.
00:04:05.823 --> 00:04:08.193
I was never hugely, but I would sort of dabble here and there.
00:04:08.193 --> 00:04:09.362
So I, like, I love Brian K.
00:04:09.362 --> 00:04:10.573
Vaughan and Fiona Staples.
00:04:10.573 --> 00:04:11.693
I loved Paper Girls.
00:04:12.022 --> 00:04:13.492
I'm very into Saga.
00:04:13.862 --> 00:04:28.733
But then I think when I started reading children's books, when I be- uh, started writing for children about five or six years ago, I think I then sort of naturally started to come across the odd middle grade graphic novel and young adult graphic novel, and that's when I got really hooked.
00:04:28.762 --> 00:04:33.163
Like, really whole shelf, spending large amounts of money hooked.
00:04:33.999 --> 00:04:37.329
Yeah, that's when it, that's when you know you're in trouble when you-
00:04:37.413 --> 00:04:40.622
not, it's not a, it's not a cheap habit, I will say.
00:04:40.952 --> 00:04:48.932
Although I have discovered that the Libby app allows you to get graphic novels from the library, and Newham have an huge collection.
00:04:49.112 --> 00:04:53.632
So when I realized I could read graphic novels for free on my iPad, that has been a, that's been a game
00:04:53.860 --> 00:04:55.600
Yeah, I completely agree actually.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:07.701
And that the, because some of the challenges with accessing graphic novels through, uh, in sort of physical copies from the library is that they're so popular they come straight off the shelf as soon as they're returned.
00:05:07.711 --> 00:05:12.391
It can be, c- can take quite a lot, especially if you're trying to read something in sequence or you're reading a series, it can be
00:05:12.403 --> 00:05:13.302
it's a mission
00:05:13.831 --> 00:05:18.211
So actually, that online access is really, really valuable and it's really, really helpful.
00:05:18.230 --> 00:05:20.471
My children really enjoy reading comics online.
00:05:20.790 --> 00:05:24.250
I tend to, I, I do like to have a physical copy.
00:05:24.521 --> 00:05:35.891
Well, I, I sometimes talk about I use my library, card to audition books, especially with, like, a long-running series, you're like,"Well, I don't wanna commit and get something," so I'll kind of audition it.
00:05:35.930 --> 00:05:47.540
I'll read the first one on the Libby app, and then if I like it, or sometimes I'll just read the whole thing on the Libby app, and then I'll just be like,"I'm buying a physical copy anyway." But then I least, at least I know I'm investing in something I wanna keep.
00:05:47.737 --> 00:05:48.336
But yeah,
00:05:48.451 --> 00:05:50.740
my library card to audition books and
00:05:50.896 --> 00:05:52.357
That is an excellent idea.
00:05:52.406 --> 00:05:53.036
Excellent idea.
00:05:53.377 --> 00:06:03.137
We're gonna talk a little bit about your writing, uh, a little bit later on., But, I wondered as a parent, Have you provided a kind of different environment to the one that you grew up in where comics were sort of slightly separate?
00:06:03.447 --> 00:06:04.656
What impact has that had
00:06:04.872 --> 00:06:06.552
I don't wanna look like I'm throwing shade on my mum.
00:06:06.552 --> 00:06:09.762
She's, like, amazing and support- But, like, my ta- my taste in
00:06:10.142 --> 00:06:11.252
Times have changed
00:06:11.663 --> 00:06:18.423
fr- Times have changed, and my mum very much gave me kind of classic worthy books and my dad gave me 1970s sci-fi.
00:06:18.952 --> 00:06:21.583
So, this, I am the project.
00:06:21.632 --> 00:06:23.213
I'm sort of the combination of that.
00:06:23.432 --> 00:06:28.293
So my son, so I, like, comics have been an absolute game changer,, in the house.
00:06:28.293 --> 00:06:31.023
So my son is, like, he's always been good at reading.
00:06:31.023 --> 00:06:32.213
He's n- he doesn't have any issues.
00:06:32.223 --> 00:06:34.182
He's always, he did well in phonics.
00:06:34.213 --> 00:06:37.182
But oh my God, phonics books, I mean, shoot me in the head.
00:06:37.742 --> 00:06:53.833
Just, I know it's a process and I know the process works, but there was one about, like, planting radishes in the garden, and we had to read it about seven times'cause in each group there's only about seven books and I was like,"I cannot read." And my son, I could also, like, the light dying in his eyes.
00:06:54.747 --> 00:07:05.867
so I think when we started looking at books to get him to read, but also longer books for us to read,'cause I think although there are still picture books that he absolutely loves, he started to want longer narratives.
00:07:05.867 --> 00:07:10.767
But the jump from a picture book to even early chapter books is really big.
00:07:10.778 --> 00:07:14.418
Even heavily illustrated ones, it's quite a big leap.
00:07:14.458 --> 00:07:22.487
And I think when I started sort of suggesting a couple, he just looked quite overwhelmed by them, especially in terms of him reading.
00:07:22.937 --> 00:07:36.867
So I started bringing, I started getting comics and graphic novels because I think it really helped to bridge that gap between something that was a longer form narrative, but was a lot more visual, so the storytelling was easier to follow.
00:07:36.958 --> 00:07:39.088
And we've kept up with them because he just loves them.
00:07:39.098 --> 00:07:40.288
And I love reading them.
00:07:40.528 --> 00:07:44.468
But I think they really help bridge between picture books and chapter books.
00:07:44.757 --> 00:07:48.848
And even in getting him to read, so he loves being read to.
00:07:48.908 --> 00:07:50.757
He's a bit more reluctant to read himself.
00:07:50.757 --> 00:07:51.877
His reading is really good.
00:07:51.877 --> 00:07:55.278
He's just la- I think it's just laziness, and he just likes being read to.
00:07:55.358 --> 00:07:59.178
but we quite often with a graphic novel, I'll get him to pick one of the characters.
00:07:59.728 --> 00:08:03.988
So I'll say,"Right, you pick the character that you wanna read," and then we'll read the whole thing.
00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:09.488
I'll do most of it, but he will read that one character, so he's still getting some practice,
00:08:10.100 --> 00:08:10.411
Yeah,
00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:16.579
and that was a really way of kind of involving him, which is, is you can't really do with a chapter book.
00:08:16.678 --> 00:08:19.949
It's really, but with a graphic novel it's really obvious every time that
00:08:20.055 --> 00:08:24.345
you'd often, sometimes you don't find out who's wr- well, o- often you don't find out who's saying something till the end.
00:08:24.345 --> 00:08:25.904
Obviously, you're making an inference.
00:08:25.935 --> 00:08:29.634
But if you're reading aloud, like when you get it wrong, you're like,"Oh, that was the wrong voice.
00:08:29.634 --> 00:08:30.245
Let's do that again."
00:08:30.331 --> 00:08:35.230
I get, I'm like,"Oh, that was supposed to be the, the, American accent that I'm doing." It's, I do a
00:08:35.246 --> 00:08:36.626
I thought someone else was talking.
00:08:36.677 --> 00:08:36.986
Yeah.
00:08:37.437 --> 00:08:40.027
Yeah, it's much clearer, in a graphic novel, I agree.
00:08:40.037 --> 00:08:48.216
And I think that it's great that although they were introduced as a kind of bridging the gap, that you've seen the value in them continuing beyond that, that they're just part of his kind of reading
00:08:48.602 --> 00:08:54.373
Yeah, and they're just, they're, it's, I think it's just they're just another format to enjoy reading from.
00:08:54.373 --> 00:09:02.312
I think there's, people feel like, it's people like,"Oh, but they don't do this and this," and I'm not, I'm not saying we should only read graphic novels, and I'm not saying we should only read books.
00:09:02.312 --> 00:09:06.692
It's like, why can't you just bring both into the reading that you do?
00:09:06.712 --> 00:09:09.883
And I think there's, there's also such just joy.
00:09:10.003 --> 00:09:12.832
I love visual storytelling, and that's what picture books do.
00:09:12.873 --> 00:09:15.153
It's the visuals enhance the storytelling.
00:09:15.153 --> 00:09:17.052
That is what graphic novels do.
00:09:17.052 --> 00:09:19.582
The visuals are there to add to the storytelling.
00:09:20.092 --> 00:09:30.243
And, my son and I are both obsessed with the Lightfall graphic novels by Tim Probert, which I, they, I just inhale them and then my son wasn't interested.
00:09:30.533 --> 00:09:36.993
And I do this thing sometimes I leave things on the steps outside his room, and he was like,"Oh, what's that?" I'm like,"Oh, no, no, Louis, that's not for you.
00:09:36.993 --> 00:09:37.702
That's, um,
00:09:38.139 --> 00:09:38.969
Sorry, I put that in the wrong place
00:09:40.113 --> 00:09:45.072
this is an older, this is for, like, at least nine-year-olds." So, I, this is when he was six.
00:09:45.072 --> 00:09:49.962
I was like,"This is too advanced for you, so I'm, this is only, this is Mommy's graphic.
00:09:49.982 --> 00:10:05.048
You can't read this." And he immediately was like,"I wanna read it," like,"Read it to me." And I was like,'Ha ha ha, my evil plan has worked.' but he just sat there, and I read for 45 minutes straight, and at the end of it, I was thinking, this was...
00:10:05.067 --> 00:10:08.398
'Cause the Lightfall is quite a complex fantasy quest.
00:10:08.447 --> 00:10:13.097
I was thinking, this, I think this has gone over his head, like, this is complicated.
00:10:13.357 --> 00:10:33.368
And at the end of it, I sort of said,"Oh," like,"what do you think is happening?" And he was just like,"Oh, there's this,, you know, there's Kest and he's trying to extinguish all the lights in the world, and they don't..." And he kind of just summed it, and I was like,"Oh, no, you, you've entirely got it." But I think that is the pow- I think if that had been a fantasy book of that level of complexity, I think he'd have struggled.
00:10:33.388 --> 00:10:43.807
But there's such powerful visual storytelling in Lightfall, and there's sections where whole parts of the story has no text, and there's other bits that are really text-heavy.
00:10:44.087 --> 00:10:52.597
So I think because of the visual element, he was able to get on board with a story that complex in a way that he wouldn't have done if it hadn't been a graphic novel.
00:10:52.630 --> 00:11:00.091
We then read all three books, and he was like,"When's book four coming out?" And I was like,"There isn't a publication date." And he was just like,"What?
00:11:00.091 --> 00:11:09.000
What, what do you mean?" Like,"What, where's..."'Cause I think at that age, he had not encountered the, oh, no, the sto- we don't know when, so, um, when book four came out.
00:11:09.030 --> 00:11:14.921
Um, so yeah, that, that was a bit of a rude awakening to, oh no, this, the story isn't complete and I don't know when the
00:11:14.955 --> 00:11:19.985
someone's somewhere in a roo- dark room drawing away trying to trying to make
00:11:20.037 --> 00:11:30.667
also, yeah, Tom was also, he has a sense that I, I know other authors, so he's like,"Can you not tell the author to hurry up?" I'm like,"I, I don't know Tim Probert, and I don't think that would help."
00:11:30.972 --> 00:11:31.092
Yeah.
00:11:31.812 --> 00:11:42.403
It's re- I think as well we've been spoiled by the, the kind of model that David Fickling Publishing have where they're, they've got a very large back catalog of, of content from The Phoenix that then...
00:11:42.403 --> 00:11:43.202
So, like, Bunny vs.
00:11:43.202 --> 00:11:51.923
Monkey was coming out really rapidly because they were chunking up comic strips that already existed and had done from 10 years' worth of publishing in The Phoenix.
00:11:52.243 --> 00:11:55.283
Um, and yeah, we're m- not used to waiting for,
00:11:55.644 --> 00:11:56.274
Yeah.
00:11:56.325 --> 00:11:57.184
But I think, it's good.
00:11:57.184 --> 00:11:58.274
I think,'cause I think
00:11:58.332 --> 00:11:58.432
The
00:11:58.434 --> 00:11:59.715
generation is so used to...
00:11:59.865 --> 00:12:03.014
Yeah, they're so used to just being able to binge-watch and everything's there.
00:12:03.024 --> 00:12:10.075
I was like, actually having to wait a year to find out what happens, this is maybe a g- a valuable life experience
00:12:10.332 --> 00:12:10.618
Yeah.
00:12:10.618 --> 00:12:13.423
'Cause we used to only have, you know, four TV channels.
00:12:14.003 --> 00:12:18.743
Um, I'm always trying to tell my children that, who couldn't be less interested in how many TV
00:12:18.980 --> 00:12:19.880
No.
00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:21.120
And you're like, and if
00:12:21.182 --> 00:12:23.432
And if you went out, it was,"Oh, you've missed it."
00:12:23.961 --> 00:12:27.610
Yeah or you had an hour on a Saturday afternoon, and that was it
00:12:30.469 --> 00:12:35.278
You spoke about, you being a writer, having these contacts, from your son's perspective.
00:12:35.339 --> 00:12:45.658
But it'd be really great to hear a little bit about your, y- your kind of dual careers as both a writer and as an influencer, and how they kind of cross over or, and, and how they came about.
00:12:45.658 --> 00:12:47.519
I'd just love to hear a- about your background.
00:12:47.528 --> 00:12:48.869
I'm sure everyone listening would as well.
00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:54.341
So yeah, it was, it's interesting'cause I had no intention to be a children's author.
00:12:54.400 --> 00:12:57.250
I had no intention to be a book influencer either.
00:12:57.301 --> 00:13:06.081
But I, when I was on maternity leave, I sort of, I started to do a bit of reading into my, um, Black identity, I think just in my late 30s.
00:13:06.091 --> 00:13:09.301
So I'd, uh, I read the brilliant book, Natives by Akala.
00:13:09.910 --> 00:13:17.880
I'd read British by Afua Hirsch, and that had sort of kind of planted this seed that I really didn't know much about Black British history.
00:13:17.880 --> 00:13:22.951
I kind of internalized this narrative that Black people were enslaved and then arrived with Windrush in 1948.
00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:28.530
That was kind of what I, what I'd sort of taken from my education and everything since then.
00:13:28.880 --> 00:13:34.291
So I ended up reading, um, this book called Black Tudors: The Untold Story by Miranda Kaufmann on maternity leave.
00:13:34.291 --> 00:13:36.110
I don't know why I would pick this up on maternity leave.
00:13:36.110 --> 00:13:40.000
I was mainly watching Love Island at two o'clock in the morning whilst doing night feeds.
00:13:40.030 --> 00:13:44.240
So I don't know how I went from that to like, oh, I need to read a really serious historical nonfiction book.
00:13:44.331 --> 00:13:45.900
But I found it absolutely fascinating.
00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:56.030
So it tells the story of p- different people of African descent who were alive during the Tudor period in England, and I had no idea that there were people who looked like me in Tudor times.
00:13:56.171 --> 00:14:02.600
And I think because my son was born, I was like, so I sort of was like, okay, and now I need all the books on Black British history.
00:14:02.860 --> 00:14:10.791
But my son's been born, so I think I naturally then started also looking at the children's books that were around, and I found some absolutely brilliant ones.
00:14:10.791 --> 00:14:12.403
There still needs to be more.
00:14:12.412 --> 00:14:17.761
I'm sure that there are more books on sharks for kids than there are Black British history, really honestly.
00:14:17.821 --> 00:14:18.171
Yeah,
00:14:18.390 --> 00:14:22.541
I kind of, I s- I started looking at that, but also I didn't like history growing up.
00:14:22.591 --> 00:14:26.341
Um, I really hated it at school, and I didn't really read nonfiction.
00:14:26.341 --> 00:14:29.071
I was very into adventure and sci-fi and fantasy.
00:14:29.510 --> 00:14:39.530
So I started then looking for the kind of historical fantasy, historical fiction books,'cause I'm like, oh, there must be loads that are exploring Black British history in different ways, and I found maybe five.
00:14:39.530 --> 00:14:44.801
And I remember thinking, I don't think that's enough, or like, I don't think that's good enough.
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:47.059
so I kind of got this earworm.
00:14:47.059 --> 00:14:52.659
I was like, well, what if I could explore some of these stories from Black Tudors, but through time travel?
00:14:53.299 --> 00:14:55.539
'Cause I love Doctor Who, and who doesn't want a time machine?
00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:59.350
And also, then it's, like it's not historical fiction, it's time travel.
00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:03.399
So, so like, and I think in my head, I was like, I'm not a historian.
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:08.960
I can't write a book about, I can't write a historical fiction book, but if it's time travel, that's absolutely fine.
00:15:08.986 --> 00:15:09.736
that made sense.
00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:10.938
Stories you told yourself.
00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:14.421
that is the story I needed to tell myself in order to do it.
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:20.561
Um, so I kind of pretended I wasn't writing it for a long time,'cause I was like, I have a career in marketing.
00:15:20.581 --> 00:15:21.780
I've just become a mom.
00:15:21.780 --> 00:15:25.331
This is a bad time, and COVID had just hit as well.
00:15:25.561 --> 00:15:32.350
I was like, this is a very bad time to start deciding to do a very time-consuming side hustle as a children's author.
00:15:32.586 --> 00:15:40.025
but I ended up writing it, and then worked on it on and off over the years and, but I started to give it to, friends who had kids that age.
00:15:40.025 --> 00:15:45.995
I'd given it to a few primary school teachers, and I'd got some really good feedback, so I was like, okay, well, I don't think my writing's terrible.
00:15:45.995 --> 00:15:47.696
There's something here.
00:15:48.265 --> 00:15:52.645
But I went out to query with it and just had a massive wall of silence for 18 months.
00:15:52.645 --> 00:15:55.436
It was literally just like screaming into a void.
00:15:55.936 --> 00:16:04.855
Um, so I was kind of feeling very dejected, but I had a chat with a friend of a friend who was a self-published author, and I think it was like a light bulb went off.
00:16:04.855 --> 00:16:12.655
I think I'd been, I'd been waiting for permission, for someone to give me permission to be an author, and I suddenly realized I could give myself permission.
00:16:13.836 --> 00:16:19.216
And I think because I felt like there was a reason for these books to exist, I'm like, there are not enough books on Black British history.
00:16:19.216 --> 00:16:28.426
There are not enough fictional books on Black British history, and there were no kind of non-historical fiction books that like time travel, kind of looking at it from a different angle.
00:16:28.426 --> 00:16:29.855
So I was like, okay, well, there's...
00:16:30.225 --> 00:16:32.046
I think that just sort of kept me going.
00:16:32.475 --> 00:16:45.875
Um, so the first book, Time Travel Travellers and the Silk Thief, came out in 2004, and I think when I knew I was gonna self-publish, I realized that no one was gonna care or know, apart from friends and family, that I'd published a book.
00:16:45.875 --> 00:16:47.466
So I
00:16:47.611 --> 00:16:50.131
have that marketing machine around you that you might...
00:16:50.131 --> 00:16:55.432
I mean, it's quite hit and miss which books are marketed and which books aren't within traditional publishing, isn't it?
00:16:55.432 --> 00:16:59.741
But i- but at least you think, you know, think there's some kind of machine there that might, that might do that
00:16:59.744 --> 00:17:05.114
Or at least distribution or, yes, there's, there's something to help you, and I thought no one is going to know.
00:17:05.203 --> 00:17:10.074
So, you know, with-- I do marketing as a, that's been my job for sort of 25 years.
00:17:10.084 --> 00:17:37.114
So I thought,"Well, I should start on Instagram and TikTok and try and build up some kind of awareness of who I am." And because I've been reading so many amazing kids' books since I started deciding to write for kids and, and absolutely fall in love with middle grade books, plus I'd read all these books on Black British history, I was like,"Well, it makes sense for me to start sharing those books because people who'll be interested in those books will be potentially interested in buying mine." So that's literally how it started.
00:17:37.114 --> 00:17:45.473
I was like, I'll start sharing reviews of all these amazing children's books, and they were largely all written by diverse authors that are Black authors, Brown authors.
00:17:45.534 --> 00:17:49.094
Like, all the representation I didn't see growing up, that's what I gravitated to.
00:17:50.253 --> 00:17:58.794
So that's kinda how it started, and then six months after building up a-- I mean, it took, I think it took me so long to get to 200 followers.
00:17:58.794 --> 00:18:01.104
Like, that was, that was the hardest thing.
00:18:01.114 --> 00:18:07.634
Going from zero to 200 felt like it was, it would take forever.
00:18:08.203 --> 00:18:11.644
It kind of the bigger you get, the easier it is to grow in some ways.
00:18:11.691 --> 00:18:22.730
And I'd also then made, not friends, but kinda got to know a lot of the other kids Bookstagrammers'cause I sort of been following them and engaging with them, and I'd been invited to a middle grade book club that one of them ran online.
00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:30.861
So I think when my book came out, when I then sort of messaged people and said,"Would you like a review copy?" They all kind of knew who I was.
00:18:30.861 --> 00:18:32.191
It wasn't like a cold call.
00:18:32.221 --> 00:18:40.644
Like, I had, I had built relationships, and that's so important., So I was really lucky that I had a lot of people that really, were really supportive,, from the get-go.
00:18:40.644 --> 00:18:45.144
And yeah, things have just grown from there, and the third book in the series is coming out in October.
00:18:46.015 --> 00:18:46.404
Amazing.
00:18:46.694 --> 00:18:50.298
Have you ever thought about Making them into a graphic novel
00:18:50.884 --> 00:18:53.273
I would love to, but I am terrible at drawing.
00:18:54.526 --> 00:18:56.885
There's other people available who could do that drawing for you.
00:18:56.885 --> 00:18:56.945
Anyone
00:18:57.594 --> 00:19:03.604
I mean, if, if anyone, if anyone was motivated to oh my God, I would love it.
00:19:03.673 --> 00:19:04.374
I would absolutely...
00:19:04.374 --> 00:19:04.523
I
00:19:04.551 --> 00:19:06.491
Sounds like it could really lend itself actually.
00:19:06.501 --> 00:19:06.832
Like
00:19:06.874 --> 00:19:12.453
I think it would, oh my God, it would be brilliant, and I can already see what the time travel vortex would look like.
00:19:12.723 --> 00:19:19.269
I think also I'm a big fan of, I quite like reading graphic novel adaptations of existing stories.
00:19:19.278 --> 00:19:24.259
So for example, there's a really great one, um, of Noughts Crosses by Malorie Blackman for teens.
00:19:24.396 --> 00:19:24.537
one
00:19:25.449 --> 00:19:26.578
that's really great.
00:19:26.621 --> 00:19:28.211
I'm a big fan of Octavia Butler.
00:19:28.290 --> 00:19:33.351
She's like one of my favorite speculative fiction authors who writes the books like Kindred and Parable of the Sower.
00:19:33.871 --> 00:19:47.250
But there's a duo, so there's a graphic artist, John Jennings, and I think it's Damian Duffy who does the adaptation, but they have turned a lot of her biggest books into graphic novels, and it's really interesting'cause her books are quite, like, they're tough subject matter.
00:19:47.540 --> 00:20:01.330
Like Parable of the Sower is this dystopian tale of American society collapsing, and it's in some ways more brutal to read the graphic novel because you're visually seeing the horrors depicted, but it, but less in other ways.
00:20:01.340 --> 00:20:04.790
So yeah, I've, it's, it's just, it gives a different lens to the story.
00:20:04.790 --> 00:20:09.800
So I'm always really fascinated with the graphic novel adaptations of, books I already really know.
00:20:09.951 --> 00:20:12.520
So yeah, I would love, I would love Time Travel Travelers
00:20:12.593 --> 00:20:14.212
Yeah, that'd be great.
00:20:17.934 --> 00:20:26.884
It would be great to just unpick a little bit about, you know, where we're at in your view with, the diversity of representation within comics.
00:20:26.904 --> 00:20:34.055
We've, we've obviously seen a really big boom in comics and graphic novel publication over the last few years.
00:20:34.055 --> 00:20:38.035
There's a lot more titles available.
00:20:38.384 --> 00:20:41.134
What is your reflection on the diversity within that?
00:20:41.345 --> 00:20:46.394
Like, I have some I have some reflections which I'll add to the, to the conversation as well.
00:20:46.394 --> 00:20:49.045
I judge some, book awards and things like that.
00:20:49.144 --> 00:20:54.502
And so se- see a lot of titles that are submitted, and I'm just interested to know what you think, in terms of the breadth
00:20:54.582 --> 00:21:00.208
So I think it, it's, I think it's very much a reflection of just the broader industry.
00:21:00.208 --> 00:21:04.397
So representation is, has been, has improved in children's books.
00:21:04.428 --> 00:21:14.657
It's nowhere near where it needs to be, and there's certainly the statistics suggest that a lot of sticking plasters and platitudes were put in place in 2020 after George Floyd, but nothing structurally changed.
00:21:14.667 --> 00:21:17.208
So things have kind of slid backwards.
00:21:17.258 --> 00:21:25.788
And it, it, I was, I think it's almost we're at the point where there's been a couple of years where people felt the need to be seen to be doing something.
00:21:25.807 --> 00:21:30.298
My concern is I'm not sure they feel the same need to even be seen to be doing something anymore.
00:21:30.298 --> 00:21:31.188
So things are,
00:21:31.816 --> 00:21:35.846
There isn't that external driver because of the political climate at the
00:21:36.298 --> 00:21:38.387
It's making, Yeah it's making things worse.
00:21:38.576 --> 00:21:49.758
So I think, and I, so my reflection is when I've gone out trying to find graphic novels and comics by Black illustrators,, by Brown illustrators, I struggle.
00:21:49.807 --> 00:21:54.156
I think particularly as well with Black British, like there i- there is the, it's,
00:21:54.358 --> 00:22:06.038
it really, yeah, I was literally like, I was trying to find, I think I was trying to find a graphic novel for teenagers from a Black British illustrator, and I thought I'd found one.
00:22:06.038 --> 00:22:11.358
She lives in the UK, but I don't think she's British and that's like, but she, um, but I love her graphic novel.
00:22:11.358 --> 00:22:13.128
But I, I really, really struggle.
00:22:13.528 --> 00:22:24.749
So what that tells me is that, and I think the world of comics, even when I look at some of the adult comics that I read, it's been historically a very white male arena.
00:22:24.878 --> 00:22:40.442
And I think if it's bad in children's books, I, I think it's sort of magnified in, in comics and I think just generally, I think illustrators of color have struggled to get the same opportunities, whether it's illustrating books or whether it's as graphic novel illustrate, uh, artists.
00:22:40.451 --> 00:22:44.190
So when I find books, I sort of really cling onto them and I'm like, this...
00:22:44.259 --> 00:22:49.109
But then it ends up in every single recommendation poll because I just don't have that, many.
00:22:49.167 --> 00:22:50.708
the diversity there to choose from.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:59.319
Yeah and I, I look for a lot of queer graphic novels as well, and graphic novels from,, any, traditionally marginalized voice.
00:22:59.356 --> 00:23:04.224
But certainly in terms of like Black and, Black and Brown, graphic novel artists, I, yeah, I really struggle.
00:23:04.295 --> 00:23:07.035
I find some great ones, but there are not nearly enough.
00:23:07.077 --> 00:23:15.150
and I think especially with kids books, there are a lot of historical properties that are really big, which is great, but they do tend to dominate.
00:23:15.670 --> 00:23:20.288
When a, when a, a series of book or a, a character becomes a brand rather than...
00:23:20.489 --> 00:23:20.858
Yeah.
00:23:21.028 --> 00:23:21.288
Yeah
00:23:22.192 --> 00:23:32.633
So I think s- and then that sort of gets a lot of the shelf space, and I think because there's not a huge amount of shelf space in bookshops currently given to graphic novels, and I think it's improving.
00:23:32.873 --> 00:23:34.292
It's much better in the States.
00:23:34.292 --> 00:23:42.482
There's just, it's a much bigger selection in the States, and I think the market's a bit more developed, so you, there's room for more diversity just because there's more room.
00:23:42.482 --> 00:23:57.413
So I think the danger is if you've just got one small shelf in a smaller bookshop, they're gonna put the biggest selling long-running titles on there, and that means even when you do get great graphic novels by artists of color, they just, they don't tend to get a look in
00:23:57.413 --> 00:23:59.002
You have to be actively looking for
00:23:59.207 --> 00:24:01.787
You have to, yeah, you have to work to find them.
00:24:01.817 --> 00:24:06.186
And that's, and people don't wanna put time and effort into finding stuff.
00:24:06.186 --> 00:24:07.196
They have lives and things.
00:24:07.196 --> 00:24:18.507
And that's partly why I think what I do on social media is so important because I love championing diverse author books, and I wanna make it just easy for people to find stuff, and easy for people to say,"Yeah, that, my son will love that.
00:24:18.517 --> 00:24:28.416
My daughter will enjoy that." So if I can just, if I can take the friction out of it, then I think hopefully that is getting the right books into more hands,
00:24:28.646 --> 00:24:36.519
Yeah, I think as well, there can sometimes be a perception that, a Black or a Brown character in a book is there for people who are Black or Brown to identify with.
00:24:36.568 --> 00:24:39.469
Whereas actually our, our identities are much more complex than that.
00:24:39.729 --> 00:24:41.838
And there's, of course you can identify with characters.
00:24:41.838 --> 00:24:55.440
You know, so if I, you know, reflection, not a, an illustrated book, but not a comic, but that my son was really interested, it, to read was, was the Harry Kumar series because the character is, autistic, ADHD, and he's autistic and ADHD, and he had never come across a character.
00:24:55.690 --> 00:25:00.900
And, and he really identified really strongly with that character and learnt things that he had no idea about.
00:25:01.170 --> 00:25:03.240
About Bol- what Bollywood was, about, you know,
00:25:03.771 --> 00:25:05.162
I love Harry Koomar.
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:07.750
things that he had never come across before.
00:25:07.750 --> 00:25:16.673
So it was a really rich experience that he could both identify with a character and learn something new that was out- that's outside of his experience and, his immediate surrounding culture it's so valuable
00:25:16.804 --> 00:25:16.855
Absolutely.
00:25:16.855 --> 00:25:25.325
And also in most, and also people, people don't say that,"Oh, well my kid's not gonna identify with that'cause they don't have superpowers, they don't have laser eyes and they can't fly." Said no
00:25:25.669 --> 00:25:26.719
Or they're not a talking bear.
00:25:26.848 --> 00:25:26.979
Yeah.
00:25:27.644 --> 00:25:29.414
or they're not a talking bear or they're not a bunny.
00:25:29.414 --> 00:25:41.015
I mean, my son's, my son's very into Neil Cameron's Donut Squad, which I don't, I don't enjoy as much as Mega Robo Bros although I have become rather fond of saying,"Oi, oi jammy boy" just at
00:25:41.067 --> 00:25:41.737
Yeah, I love Jammy Boy.
00:25:41.737 --> 00:25:42.797
It's my favorite one
00:25:43.414 --> 00:25:44.315
It's oi, oi donut.
00:25:44.674 --> 00:25:46.055
But I'm like my son's not a donut.
00:25:46.255 --> 00:25:47.345
He's never gonna be a donut.
00:25:47.494 --> 00:25:50.005
He has a uniquely non-donut lifestyle.
00:25:52.724 --> 00:25:52.954
But
00:25:53.118 --> 00:25:56.828
Neil was not willing to answer my question about which donor he most identified with.
00:25:56.838 --> 00:25:57.749
He drew the line.
00:25:58.684 --> 00:26:01.724
Oh, I've never met him, but now I'm gonna, I'm now I'm gonna have a thing.
00:26:02.154 --> 00:26:14.012
I mean, I, the, the whole mum, the mum and dad doughnut and little Timmy, and the, just the, the the parent relationship dynamic between the mum and dad, that is my favorite thing in the whole universe at the moment.
00:26:14.053 --> 00:26:16.893
I'm just, I'm living, living for Mum Nut and Dad Nut.
00:26:17.032 --> 00:26:32.542
Um, but yeah, I think, I, no, I think to go back to your other point, I think you're completely right, and I think,'cause I think there's, there are universal things that kids are always gonna connect with, and then there are mirrors, or sort of windows rather, into worlds and experiences they don't know.
00:26:32.813 --> 00:26:45.445
I think also there's this danger, and actually Ramzi, who's a brilliant, author and illustrator, talks about this a lot, that characters of color when they turn up are supposed to be learning opportunities.
00:26:45.445 --> 00:27:02.086
They're suppo- you know, they're, they're only there to explain the trauma of their lives or to learn some, you know, really valuable and very worthy lesson and, and there's a lot of those stories that are very important, but also they should just be allowed to have fun and be silly and be unlikable and be a bit extra.
00:27:02.615 --> 00:27:08.046
They don't have to be there and signal worthiness in some way, or do you know what I mean?
00:27:08.056 --> 00:27:28.655
And I think there's a danger that when publishers are looking to commission stories like that, they're like,"Oh, okay, well, no, this is like, this is a South Asian story, so there must be something about the struggle of being South Asian in Britain, or the struggle of racism or being a..." And it's like, that doesn't always have to be the only story that people of color are allowed to tell, especially when it comes to comics.
00:27:29.455 --> 00:27:30.685
Yeah, 100%.
00:27:30.733 --> 00:27:46.699
Other reflections that I have there are more talking food items and more, heavily animal-based stories, than, than comics that feature real lives and just children's everyday experiences or fantasy genre featuring humans, of all different types.
00:27:46.709 --> 00:28:00.837
That, that, that is still a very slender section o- of what you're able to find, and that's not to say that those books don't individually have merit, but if you're looking across the whole industry about what's available, it's not hitting the mark yet, I don't think
00:28:01.155 --> 00:28:06.306
But yeah, I'm ever optimistic, but I do think, yeah, I do think things need to change.
00:28:06.316 --> 00:28:07.715
And I, and the problem is it's, it's not...
00:28:08.215 --> 00:28:14.105
I think what frustrates me slightly with the industry is they need to do more work.
00:28:14.145 --> 00:28:19.816
They, like, they need to go out and work out how they're finding these illustrators and nurturing and supporting their careers.
00:28:19.846 --> 00:28:27.715
You can't just put,"Oh, we're willing to receive more applications from diverse voices on your website." And they, and all the agents, and they do this.
00:28:27.715 --> 00:28:36.705
They all put hashtag diverse voices in your query, and I'm like,"Guys, that's not gonna cut it." You don't change, you don't move the needle by platitudes.
00:28:36.705 --> 00:28:45.246
You actually need to go and do some structural work and work out why people are not having careers, why they're not getting into the industry, and why they're not getting supported and platformed
00:28:46.372 --> 00:28:47.662
Yeah, definitely.
00:28:47.707 --> 00:28:59.568
shall we do the thing of making it easier for people to find some really good examples of comics and graphic novels that might, might be of interest to them?
00:28:59.608 --> 00:29:04.028
I'm super interested to what you're gonna come up with to share with us.
00:29:04.038 --> 00:29:10.109
So should we do age, age range and start with kind of younger readers?
00:29:10.748 --> 00:29:11.208
Yes.
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.220
Definitely a prevalence of animals and cutesy things in the
00:29:14.367 --> 00:29:15.248
There are.
00:29:15.258 --> 00:29:19.788
So I've I've tried to go for at least one example that isn't animals.
00:29:19.876 --> 00:29:27.136
and actually I will say this age group, so like five to seven years, is the one that I struggle the most to find good diverse representation.
00:29:27.146 --> 00:29:30.356
And that's for chapter books actually, as well as graphic novels.
00:29:30.356 --> 00:29:32.257
It just seems to be this age group.
00:29:32.547 --> 00:29:36.797
Better in picture books, better in middle grade books, and then it sort of nosedives in this area.
00:29:37.082 --> 00:29:40.544
but my favorite at the moment is Supernova, by Chante Timothy,
00:29:40.621 --> 00:29:43.090
I would love Chante Timothy to come on the podcast.
00:29:43.090 --> 00:29:43.740
I need to try and,
00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:45.570
Oh, well, no, you should definitely ask her.
00:29:45.641 --> 00:29:46.641
She's absolutely lovely.
00:29:46.641 --> 00:29:51.755
But this, this also, this book is very special for me, I think, because I was a Black girl scientist.
00:29:51.845 --> 00:29:53.473
I did biology at university.
00:29:53.473 --> 00:30:01.438
So this is all about Nova, who is, Nova's quite, she's very, like, I love how confident she is, and she's a little bit extra.
00:30:01.498 --> 00:30:03.948
She has a secret science lab in her house.
00:30:04.067 --> 00:30:09.486
she realizes that there's a plastic pollution issue,'cause she's watching something with her older sister who she absolutely hates.
00:30:09.486 --> 00:30:12.201
and she decides that she can solve the world's plastic crisis.
00:30:12.211 --> 00:30:19.031
So she goes and invents, in a kind of Frankenstein way, this little kind of cute pink monster called Chomp, and Chomp eats plastic.
00:30:19.432 --> 00:30:26.778
But Chomp eats all plastic, and Chomp doesn't listen to Supernova and kind of gets out of control and grows and nearly demolishes the entire city.
00:30:26.786 --> 00:30:30.675
and I also like she doesn't really get into that much trouble for, like, nearly demolishing the entire city.
00:30:30.675 --> 00:30:32.326
Her parents are like,"No, it's fine.
00:30:33.205 --> 00:30:33.685
We've, uh,"
00:30:34.056 --> 00:30:35.455
It was the ambition that counts
00:30:37.715 --> 00:30:38.546
Which is great.
00:30:38.546 --> 00:30:39.786
I love that for Nova.
00:30:40.114 --> 00:30:45.647
So there's some really nice messages about kind of the plastic issue, how you solve, what the issue is.
00:30:45.678 --> 00:30:55.837
But then it's, you know, you've got this kind of great Black girl scientist at the heart with these crazy inventions, and this creation of hers that just gets completely out of control and nearly annihilates everything.
00:30:55.875 --> 00:30:58.262
so there's something a bit anarchist about Supernova.
00:30:58.278 --> 00:30:59.241
but I really love it.
00:30:59.261 --> 00:31:01.211
It was, it's been really good for my son.
00:31:01.211 --> 00:31:03.291
And actually this is, it's also quite special to me.
00:31:03.291 --> 00:31:06.112
So my, my son never volunteers to read.
00:31:06.112 --> 00:31:27.518
Usually I'm like,"Okay, no, Louis, we need to practice your reading now." And I said to him, we were going to bed, it was about a couple of weeks ago, I said,"Oh, what book do you want me to read you?" And he said,"I'm gonna read to you tonight, Mommy." And I was like,"Who are you and what have you done with my son?" And he got Supernova out and he read the whole thing cover to cover, including the blurb on the back, including the acknowledgements and the instructions for how you draw Chomp at the end.
00:31:27.748 --> 00:31:40.431
Like, he was like,"I'm reading every word in this book." but even there's a bit where she's got the sound effects going,"No, no, no, no." It's written like, I don't know, 50 times in the background of one of the images.
00:31:40.431 --> 00:31:43.080
He read every single no in...
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.348
That's dedication.
00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:47.351
It's r- I sent the video to Chante.
00:31:47.971 --> 00:31:52.401
I was just like,"I just thought you'd like to appreciate my son is fully committed to reading every word
00:31:53.749 --> 00:31:55.318
You made the effort to put it on there.
00:31:55.338 --> 00:31:56.189
I'm- he's gonna read it
00:31:56.310 --> 00:31:57.191
Yeah.
00:31:57.510 --> 00:31:59.520
But it's, it's a really fun story.
00:31:59.520 --> 00:32:04.750
I'm really excited that there's gonna be a second one coming in the summer, I think, and a third one next year.
00:32:04.750 --> 00:32:05.451
So yeah,
00:32:05.643 --> 00:32:08.762
It's great to have a series as well, and it's not just, sort of, just a one-off.
00:32:08.782 --> 00:32:12.403
It's gonna You know, the character gets to stay, and you find, you know, new, new adventures.
00:32:12.403 --> 00:32:13.053
It's just great to see that
00:32:13.807 --> 00:32:14.277
Exactly.
00:32:14.317 --> 00:32:21.307
So yeah, so"Supernova" has been a big favorite in my house, and I think, I think, I mean, Chante, I keep telling her, she's, she's, she's winning awards with this book.
00:32:21.307 --> 00:32:25.415
Like, I think because kids are just responding so well to it.
00:32:25.429 --> 00:32:29.568
so yeah, I think it's an abs- and I really love that my son loves the character of Nova.
00:32:29.578 --> 00:32:31.038
He's a boy, she's a girl.
00:32:31.068 --> 00:32:36.588
I think there's too much obsession with kids having to only identify with their gender leading books.
00:32:36.588 --> 00:32:38.199
But Yeah he absolutely loves"Supernova."
00:32:38.208 --> 00:32:39.218
That is brilliant.
00:32:41.627 --> 00:32:44.299
So the o- this one is, this is animal-based.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:48.019
So this is, this is Blueberry and Pancakes,
00:32:48.596 --> 00:32:48.616
So
00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:49.423
which I really love.
00:32:49.523 --> 00:32:57.635
And this, this is really great for younger readers because the writing's in lowercase, which actually that can be a challenge with graphic novels.
00:32:57.781 --> 00:33:00.226
Yeah, it's actually quite hard to find lowercase writing
00:33:00.253 --> 00:33:01.903
kids, find it harder to read initially.
00:33:01.903 --> 00:33:05.124
So actually, the fact this is in lowercase, there's loads of sound effects in this.
00:33:05.124 --> 00:33:18.673
It's basically about a giant bunny called Pancake, a slightly neurotic worm called Blue, and a very over-organized frog called Barry, on adventures, which are usually just very ridiculous.
00:33:19.271 --> 00:33:26.192
I feel like it channels for me, Saturday morning cartoon energy of the, of like the'90...
00:33:26.201 --> 00:33:27.781
It's got, it- it's kind of a bit of a
00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:29.180
the Road Runner, Wile E.
00:33:29.761 --> 00:33:30.852
exactly.
00:33:31.961 --> 00:33:43.602
I feel like it's, sometimes in the category for younger readers, and because you need to keep things simple for them to be able to follow the sort of flow of panels, sometimes it can be very repetitive.
00:33:43.612 --> 00:33:45.181
But I think it does interesting things
00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:45.720
Yeah
00:33:45.797 --> 00:33:46.897
the comic-ness of it.
00:33:46.928 --> 00:33:49.958
Like, it uses comics in a interesting way.
00:33:49.958 --> 00:33:56.855
There's some really funny things where, like, a scream carries on over, like, multiple panels and things, that just, it's funny and it, it's engaging
00:33:56.873 --> 00:33:59.673
Yeah, and I just, I, I think we've read...
00:33:59.722 --> 00:34:10.472
It's, it's what, it's a testament to h- when you read a book over and over and over and over again with your child, if you're still, like, you as an adult, you're still getting stuff from it.
00:34:10.563 --> 00:34:28.563
Like, you're not rolling your eyes and going,"Do we really have to read this again?" Um, whereas, like, always, like, when my son was like,"Can we read Blueberry and Pancake?" I'm like,"I'm 100% here." There's also quite, there's, I think it's the, maybe the third one, which is they go to a balloon planet, which has sort of been created by Pancake.
00:34:28.722 --> 00:34:31.992
There's a whole meta thing about how you create a planet that you have to travel to.
00:34:31.992 --> 00:34:33.563
I don't really entirely understand.
00:34:33.563 --> 00:34:36.112
He sort of created this whole being of people, and it's sort of there.
00:34:36.112 --> 00:34:41.543
I feel there's a backstory that could be explored to how Pancake, the giant bunny, creates Balonia.
00:34:42.112 --> 00:34:51.833
But at the end it says,"Can you find all these tiny balloon animals?" So we've gone back through the pages to find, and there's one we cannot find, and I'm convinced it's not even in there.
00:34:51.833 --> 00:35:00.833
And I'm, I actually, I spent, like, half an hour in my, like, having a coffee at lunchtime being like,"I'm gonna find this balloon animal." I can't find it.
00:35:01.233 --> 00:35:02.612
It's driving me mad.
00:35:04.349 --> 00:35:04.409
That's
00:35:04.422 --> 00:35:07.463
So yeah, Dan and Jason, who wrote it, I need, I need Dan.
00:35:07.483 --> 00:35:09.422
I might, I might just DM them and go,"Guys,
00:35:09.938 --> 00:35:10.739
Where is this?
00:35:10.829 --> 00:35:11.639
I'm losing my mind.
00:35:11.668 --> 00:35:11.909
Yeah.
00:35:13.463 --> 00:35:21.391
Put me out my misery." but yeah, so Blueberry, and I think there's about five out, but I think they, they've all come out in the US, so I think they're bringing them out quite rapidly.
00:35:21.407 --> 00:35:26.612
so yeah, it's a really fun series, and I've gifted this to quite a lot of my son's friends as well for birthdays'cause it's,
00:35:26.746 --> 00:35:28.876
It's not one that's widely known, I don't think.
00:35:28.876 --> 00:35:31.630
It's, yeah, but it's probably people who know it love it
00:35:31.635 --> 00:35:32.326
it's so fun.
00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:37.679
my next one is, it's maybe a tad old for this age group, but I did read it to my son when he was six.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:53.206
It's one of the weirdest comics I have ever come across, and that is, Squid Happens: The Adventures of Team Pom It's, it's, it- so I found this in the library a couple of years ago,
00:35:53.724 --> 00:35:54.315
Flying Eye, published
00:35:54.347 --> 00:35:54.556
was...
00:35:54.824 --> 00:35:55.425
Eye, right?
00:35:55.465 --> 00:35:55.744
It,
00:35:55.797 --> 00:35:58.827
Yeah, it's, it's, it's gonna sound weird.
00:35:58.867 --> 00:36:14.226
So you've got three, three girls who kind of meet and bond and form a synchronized swimming team, which is quite, it's quite an interpret- yeah, it's quite an interpretive synchronized swimming team, but they aren't really getting a look in because their approach to synchronized swimming is a little random.
00:36:14.577 --> 00:36:17.190
But then you've also got this, it's avant-garde.
00:36:17.195 --> 00:36:21.885
There's a group of kids that are part of the Peanut Butter Mafia, I think it is.
00:36:21.974 --> 00:36:22.804
Something to do with that.
00:36:23.094 --> 00:36:27.775
And then basically you've got this evil mouse and his m- well, I don't know, is the...
00:36:27.775 --> 00:36:33.304
Oh, I can't remember if the main guy is a mouse, but they've got these mice henchmen, which are on a mission to retrieve something for their evil boss.
00:36:33.304 --> 00:36:37.744
But a squid that they need for an ingredient for this, is it anti-aging beauty cream?
00:36:37.974 --> 00:36:39.505
Anyway, the squid goes missing.
00:36:39.514 --> 00:36:46.815
The squid ends up being found by the three girls and is co-opted into their synchronized swimming team whilst these two mice henchmen...
00:36:46.835 --> 00:36:49.445
It's, it's just really, really weird.
00:36:49.695 --> 00:36:51.394
But I abs- and there's a sequel.
00:36:51.434 --> 00:36:54.275
It's one of the most wonderful things,
00:36:54.806 --> 00:36:57.135
It has a really distinct art style as well, like,
00:36:57.135 --> 00:36:58.003
It's quite retro
00:36:58.327 --> 00:37:07.083
yeah, it's, which is really interesting, and also maybe that's sort of part of why I feel like it might be borderline on that age group as well, I think it's a good one to share with younger readers
00:37:07.668 --> 00:37:12.168
Yeah, I think'cause it's just, I think young kids do enjoy things that are just a bit weird and
00:37:12.228 --> 00:37:16.798
Yeah, especially, yeah, if you've got a child that sort of delights in the absurd as well,
00:37:16.947 --> 00:37:17.646
Yes.
00:37:17.717 --> 00:37:20.836
Then they will love Team Pom, Squid Happens.
00:37:20.876 --> 00:37:24.396
And just as an adult, just so much to enjoy in that.
00:37:27.034 --> 00:37:28.215
Shall we go to middle grade readers?
00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:35.931
Yeah, so my new obsession for this age group is Ramsay and Claude Tee's, Rex Power: Fear of the Invasion Bugs
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:36.900
This is new to me.
00:37:36.969 --> 00:37:39.309
I kn- I know Ramsay's work, but I don't know...
00:37:39.309 --> 00:37:40.280
I'm gonna write it down.
00:37:40.344 --> 00:37:41.954
So I think Ramsay wrote this.
00:37:41.954 --> 00:37:44.164
I think Claude TC is the illustrator.
00:37:44.534 --> 00:38:01.114
So this is, I took this away on a weekend, and I was gonna read this on the train, and my son was reading something else, and he sort of looked over the seat and he was like,"What are you reading?" I was like,"Nothing." Anyway, I read it, this book to him four times, I think, over the weekend.
00:38:01.474 --> 00:38:11.623
It's about a kid called Cory, who basically, I think from an adopted Somali family, so he is trying to save his adopted brother from being bullied one evening.
00:38:12.164 --> 00:38:17.184
Sort of steps in to save him, and then accidentally gets in the way of an alien bounty hunter takedown.
00:38:18.514 --> 00:38:26.434
So this kind of evolved alien bounty hunter T-Rex type figure is trying to, take down an evil villain called Zordax.
00:38:27.173 --> 00:38:28.514
Cory interrupts it.
00:38:28.523 --> 00:38:37.434
There's a terrible blast, and he ends up having the, T-Rex's consciousness fused into his mind, so he's now got a T-Rex alien bounty hunter living in his brain.
00:38:39.293 --> 00:38:41.414
But can also kind of morph into his body.
00:38:41.474 --> 00:38:43.103
There's some complicated science going on.
00:38:43.103 --> 00:38:56.143
But mean- meanwhile, Zordax has escaped and has basically made Catford in South London his headquarters, and is using these bugs to kind of create fear and take over the world from Catford.
00:38:56.193 --> 00:39:07.324
And so Cory has to sort of make peace with this Rex tyrannosaur bounty hunter in his head and take Zordax down, and it's just brilliant.
00:39:07.353 --> 00:39:13.784
There's some really amazing kind of spreads in here, like the, there's a lot of just weird alien bug stuff.
00:39:13.784 --> 00:39:20.143
But there's also, I think, so there's loads of like fun sci-fi adventure and, you know, evil bugs taking over the world.
00:39:20.153 --> 00:39:25.454
But there's also a joke about avocados and gentrification that I just nearly wet myself at.
00:39:26.193 --> 00:39:30.664
I've never seen avocados used in such a brilliant way in literature, ever.
00:39:31.123 --> 00:39:34.873
But also there's this really lovely relationship between Cory and his adopted brother.
00:39:34.873 --> 00:39:38.793
So Cory's like worried that his family don't want, his foster family don't want him.
00:39:38.793 --> 00:39:45.893
He sort of misinterprets something, and it's his foster brother that sort of makes him realize that no, he is loved and they do want him in the family.
00:39:45.893 --> 00:39:46.884
So there's this really,
00:39:47.302 --> 00:39:47.322
as well
00:39:48.173 --> 00:39:51.443
yeah, there's this really gorgeous brother dynamic at the heart of it.
00:39:51.454 --> 00:39:53.653
But it is, it's just huge amounts of fun.
00:39:53.664 --> 00:39:56.903
So I'm really hoping there'll be more Rex Power because I, yeah,
00:39:56.907 --> 00:39:57.478
That's great.
00:39:57.478 --> 00:39:58.387
I'm gonna get a hold of that.
00:39:58.387 --> 00:39:58.858
That sounds brilliant
00:39:59.440 --> 00:39:59.990
I love the...
00:39:59.990 --> 00:40:03.860
It's not the kind of illustration style I generally go for, but I really, really loved it
00:40:04.693 --> 00:40:07.112
What's the, uh, kind of illustration style that you generally go for?
00:40:07.311 --> 00:40:09.431
I like watercolors, subtlety.
00:40:09.431 --> 00:40:11.061
I quite like black and white.
00:40:11.311 --> 00:40:15.492
I really like the sort of slightly vintage matte style of Squid Happens.
00:40:15.492 --> 00:40:17.931
That tends to be more what I'm drawn
00:40:18.030 --> 00:40:18.469
I want to.
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:19.920
Yeah
00:40:20.061 --> 00:40:22.989
and I really love kind of big panels that sort of take it in.
00:40:22.989 --> 00:40:27.768
So I don't usually go for the very busy, there's lots happening, there's loads of action.
00:40:28.081 --> 00:40:37.478
but it may be just'cause I hadn't found it in the right story because I think that kind of busy action, eyes drawn everywhere is very much Rex Power, and I really liked it in that graphic novel
00:40:37.731 --> 00:40:38.161
Amazing.
00:40:38.202 --> 00:40:39.181
What else have you got for us?
00:40:39.353 --> 00:40:43.791
I also, this is for slightly, slightly older middle grade readers, so maybe
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.070
We've put middle graders eight, eight to 12,
00:40:46.130 --> 00:40:47.269
so this is Squire.
00:40:47.269 --> 00:40:50.320
So this is by Sara Alfageeh and Nadia Shammas.
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.210
So I think it's a Jordan American, um...
00:40:53.266 --> 00:40:55.085
has been a guest on the podcast before.
00:40:55.469 --> 00:40:56.019
amazing.
00:40:56.030 --> 00:40:57.079
I will listen to that back.
00:40:57.099 --> 00:41:02.146
And then Nadia Shammas, I think, is a Palestinian American But I really, I loved Squire.
00:41:02.146 --> 00:41:04.550
It's about a girl who's, It's a fantasy.
00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:17.065
It's a girl who's in a kind of a tribe or group that is minoritized and ostracized in her world, but she longs to join, the knights who are kind of the heroes of the realm, and she really wants to be, a squire.
00:41:17.065 --> 00:41:25.605
So she kind of enlists to train as a knight, only to realize the, the world is very different to she imagined, and the role of the knights is very different.
00:41:25.605 --> 00:41:34.434
So it's kind of about colonialism, and power, and indoctrination, and this one girl's kind of fight against it.
00:41:34.445 --> 00:41:37.704
But yeah, um, yeah, I really loved this.
00:41:37.724 --> 00:41:43.105
It's, it's a big, it's a big chunky graphic novel, but you kind of just get so immersed into this world.
00:41:43.105 --> 00:41:44.144
it's really beautifully
00:41:44.280 --> 00:42:02.907
it's a really immersive world and the, um, and the kind of the landscape and the details that go into the creation of that world, but that just, it all just fits, and y- you're just lost within the world, I think, when you're reading it.
00:42:02.956 --> 00:42:04.876
Yeah, I think it's gorgeous
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:14.514
Yeah, so I think Squire is, especially for fantasy lovers, I think if you've got kids that enjoy fantasy, I think, yeah, Squire, Squire is amazing.
00:42:14.514 --> 00:42:19.001
And then I think my final one is, oh, there's so many.
00:42:19.103 --> 00:42:23.043
I'm very obsessed with, two artists called, Jez and Syn Winboa.
00:42:23.043 --> 00:42:30.083
So they are, I don't know which country they live in, but they wrote a beautiful graphic novel called Luna Boy, stunning.
00:42:30.103 --> 00:42:35.253
They're also the illustrators of a really other great one by Tony Weaver Jr.
00:42:35.523 --> 00:42:40.563
called Weirdo, which was a recommendation from the US, but it's quite easy to get here, so I would recommend that.
00:42:40.563 --> 00:42:52.496
But Luna Boy is about a boy who's born on the moon, and his mother sort of finds him on the moon, adopts him, and they live in a space station, but then they kind of move back to to Indonesia.
00:42:52.635 --> 00:42:59.396
And so it's about how he copes, and he's also trans, how he copes with settling into this kind of blended family.
00:42:59.686 --> 00:43:23.375
So there's a lot about the Indonesian language and heritage and coming of age and the clash of different cultures, but also him, he sort of feels like the moon is talking to him and calling him back to the m- moon and it's like, does he feel like he fits in enough with his blended family and on Earth, or does he feel like he has to go back and live in isolation on the moon?
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:29.067
so it's just this really beautiful story of kind of identity and belonging, in this sort of sci-fi.
00:43:29.077 --> 00:43:36.746
And The color palette's very kind of pinks and purples and blues and creams, almost, uh, sort of a Luna-esque element.
00:43:36.755 --> 00:43:48.445
So it's, I qui- I quite like graphic novels that don't just use the whole color palette, but, like, we're taking this palette of colors and we're using colors in a very specific way to highlight different elements of the story.
00:43:48.454 --> 00:43:51.574
So yeah, Luna Boy is, is one of my favorite graphic novels.
00:43:51.576 --> 00:43:53.369
I think it's just stunning.
00:43:53.369 --> 00:43:57.474
but I think as a, as an illustrator duo, really beautiful work
00:43:58.277 --> 00:43:58.358
Great.
00:43:58.378 --> 00:43:59.878
I'm definitely gonna get hold of that.
00:43:59.918 --> 00:44:02.777
Have you ever read any Tillie Walden comics?
00:44:03.391 --> 00:44:03.791
I don't think
00:44:03.858 --> 00:44:06.307
Tillie, so I would say it, that...
00:44:06.577 --> 00:44:23.340
Probably thought of as being a creative for adults, uh, but I think YA as well, makes really beaut- sort of crosses over, like, a lot of fantasy kind of elements in, a lot of, exploration of LGBT identity.
00:44:23.570 --> 00:44:32.469
There's this, my, one of, I think one of my favorite comics of all time is, Love This Part, and it's about this kind of burgeoning relationship between two teenage girls.
00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:38.260
And in it it's a metaphor throughout, which, in that they're, they're massive, they're, they're giant.
00:44:38.269 --> 00:44:45.679
They're like, they're, it's just it's their two interactions, and they're always, like, as big as the buildings around them., They're drawn as being very large with the landscapes.
00:44:46.030 --> 00:44:51.130
And it's almost like this kind of metaphor for the early days of a relationship with each other, and you're, like...
00:44:51.429 --> 00:44:59.079
It is stunning and from the things that you've said that you like, I think that you would really It's one of my favorite comics creators.
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:03.889
and they, also I like the fact,'cause I think I tend to binge graphic novels in one sitting usually.
00:45:04.059 --> 00:45:05.699
They never stay on my shelf for very long.
00:45:05.748 --> 00:45:06.278
Like, once I...
00:45:06.338 --> 00:45:13.489
Like, other books I will buy and I'll be like,"That's been there for two years, and I've still not read it." But graphic novels always, always get read.
00:45:13.548 --> 00:45:23.070
So teen ones I've got, so one of my favorite, illustrators at the moment is Lee Knox Ostertag, who I am just obsessed with his work.
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:23.929
I just...
00:45:24.019 --> 00:45:27.280
It's, um, a lot of exploration of gender identity.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.610
But his first book was, um, his first book was The Girl From the Sea,
00:45:31.623 --> 00:45:32.123
love that book
00:45:33.050 --> 00:45:34.090
which is just...
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:40.199
It's about a girl kind of falling in love with another girl, but she's a selkie, from the sea, so there's environmental messages in it.
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:46.260
But, um, but they, and the cover's sort of got this, um, this gree- like a turquoisey green and pink, and there's something...
00:45:46.989 --> 00:45:52.646
The, I don't know, the way color is used in here, it's quite aquatic, a lot of the time.
00:45:52.646 --> 00:45:56.996
And, and there's some really, I love the way that there are text messages between the girl friendship groups.
00:45:57.016 --> 00:45:59.476
So it's very, it's a very good book for teens.
00:45:59.476 --> 00:46:01.226
It's not like young adult for actually adults.
00:46:01.226 --> 00:46:03.246
It's like, it's proper young adult for teens.
00:46:03.257 --> 00:46:14.896
It's all about that kind of friendship groups, not wanting to stand out, worrying what people are gonna think about you, but also meeting someone that kind of makes, gives you butterflies in your stomach for the first time.
00:46:14.943 --> 00:46:18.903
but I re- the, but The Girl With Sea is sort of really charming and really beautiful.
00:46:18.943 --> 00:46:42.688
And then at the other end, there's an amazing graphic novel he's done called The Deep Dark, which is, So it's about Mags, who is living with her grandmother, and there's some kind of family secret that you, there's, she ends up having to go down to the basement every night, and she comes back up and her hand is bandaged, and you don't know why, but it's something that is tethering her to her house, so stopping her from being able to move on.
00:46:42.688 --> 00:46:51.559
She's sort of having sex with a girl who's sort of dating one of the guys in school and keeping it a secret, so there's just a lot of kind of hiding things, and hidden secrets happening.
00:46:51.579 --> 00:47:05.429
And then a kind of a blast from the past, a girl that she knew growing up turns up and kind of, sort of blows things open, um, and brings her, and brings the secret that is biting her that is in the basement out into the light.
00:47:05.498 --> 00:47:10.548
Um, and it's re- it's c- it's a very dark fantasy novel, but it's stunning.
00:47:10.548 --> 00:47:12.478
And again, the color palette really reflects that.
00:47:12.518 --> 00:47:15.128
It's mu- you know, it's the opposite of The Girl With the Sea.
00:47:15.128 --> 00:47:18.088
It's a lot of dark, rich colors.
00:47:18.106 --> 00:47:20.065
but I, I just adored it.
00:47:20.074 --> 00:47:24.434
So I think anything by Lee Knox Ostertag, I'm just like, Yeah,
00:47:24.788 --> 00:47:26.483
Yeah, it's a great shout.
00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:35.822
I was gonna pick out as well for maybe the upper end of middle grade, possibly, younger, Unicorn Boy with Dave
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:37.559
Oh, I love...
00:47:37.849 --> 00:47:38.889
We've just got the second one.
00:47:38.889 --> 00:47:39.469
I love
00:47:39.532 --> 00:47:40.422
haven't read the second one yet.
00:47:40.501 --> 00:47:46.172
It's so good because I just, it, it, again, it's got that, it's not issues-based representation.
00:47:46.192 --> 00:47:47.251
It's a fantasy book.
00:47:47.251 --> 00:47:48.202
It's a comedy book.
00:47:48.211 --> 00:47:50.931
It's a, you know, classic portal story.
00:47:50.961 --> 00:47:51.922
But that, yeah, exactly.
00:47:51.952 --> 00:47:52.382
That sh-
00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:52.869
And also,
00:47:52.981 --> 00:47:53.922
living their life quite
00:47:54.269 --> 00:47:59.250
yeah, and the main charac- and I love that the boy is, like, a unicorn, and he has pink hair.
00:47:59.269 --> 00:48:12.230
Like, my son, uh, definitely, like, loved wearing pink T-shirts, but stopped because he felt like kids were saying,"Well, you, girls wear pink." So I think there's a lot of kind of playing with gender conventions in Unicorn Boy, plus there's a talking muffin.
00:48:12.478 --> 00:48:15.027
Yeah, which just comes out of nowhere and is hilarious.
00:48:15.670 --> 00:48:21.449
Yeah, and then there's the c- and the cats have a whole thing, and then basically there's, they go into the underworld.
00:48:21.489 --> 00:48:22.849
It's, yeah, it's a very...
00:48:22.849 --> 00:48:25.420
Again, there's a wonderful weirdness about Unicorn Boy.
00:48:25.429 --> 00:48:28.889
The second one especially is about a unicorn slumber party.
00:48:29.344 --> 00:48:35.182
I had to pull out a lot of Scottish accents,'cause it's basically set in Scotland, Scottish accents, I was like,"I am, I'm struggling with one.
00:48:35.322 --> 00:48:36.003
I'm not sure I can
00:48:36.641 --> 00:48:44.061
I once, I used to be a teacher and I once, I actually had to stop reading a book b- to the class'cause I was like, I didn't realize that they had voted for it and it was, like, completely...
00:48:44.061 --> 00:48:44.661
And I was like,"I can't.
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.130
I...
00:48:45.271 --> 00:48:47.471
G- guys, guys, I can't actually do this.
00:48:47.521 --> 00:48:47.690
This is,
00:48:48.358 --> 00:48:49.028
I cannot do
00:48:49.041 --> 00:48:49.744
this is, you're being traumatized.
00:48:49.744 --> 00:48:50.371
I'm being traumatized.
00:48:52.951 --> 00:48:58.681
Let's just maybe we'll get the audiobook and listen to somebody who actually can do a Scottish accent, and we will just leave it there.
00:48:58.681 --> 00:48:59.811
I need to move on."
00:48:59.811 --> 00:48:59.840
God.
00:49:02.090 --> 00:49:02.340
But yeah.
00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:05.570
no, unic- actually, I think Unicorn Boy is good for younger.
00:49:05.630 --> 00:49:12.791
Ba- I mean, based on my sons really enjoyed it at seven, so actually I think it, I think it's got good broad appeal.
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:14.860
I think, I think younger teens would still
00:49:15.181 --> 00:49:25.210
There's a dry sense of humor in it, which I think sometimes a younger reader might miss, but you still get the humor from the more obvious plot point, humorous plot points.
00:49:25.210 --> 00:49:26.740
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,
00:49:26.746 --> 00:49:27.577
plot points.
00:49:27.577 --> 00:49:28.293
Absolutely.
00:49:28.293 --> 00:49:32.847
And then so I'm looking at my shelf'cause there's so, uh, yeah, there's so many.
00:49:32.847 --> 00:49:40.744
I think I probably have slightly more actually young adult, um, books, but I'm, I'm a big fan of Bex, I think, is it Glendining, Glendinning?
00:49:40.764 --> 00:49:42.534
I'm not sure how you pronounce her surname.
00:49:42.925 --> 00:49:47.614
Um, so she is a Black queer illustrator who certainly lives in London.
00:49:47.644 --> 00:49:55.568
She's also, uh, was involved in a graphic novel called Brooms, which I am obsessed with.
00:49:55.568 --> 00:49:56.286
let me just get the...
00:49:56.297 --> 00:49:56.686
Hang on
00:49:57.125 --> 00:49:59.255
I'm getting my pencil again, writing that one down.
00:49:59.394 --> 00:50:00.045
Brooms
00:50:00.286 --> 00:50:02.757
Brooms is by Jasmine Walls and T.O.
00:50:02.797 --> 00:50:03.463
Duval.
00:50:03.463 --> 00:50:17.699
and this is set, it's a magic story set in 1930s Mississippi, where basically people of color who have magical powers are sort of ostracized and put in boarding school so they can essentially be controlled.
00:50:18.139 --> 00:50:20.230
So there's, it's kind of allegorical.
00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:26.668
Um, but there's, indigenous representation here, there's Black representation here, there's queer representation here.
00:50:26.697 --> 00:50:28.958
One of the characters speaks in sign language.
00:50:28.958 --> 00:50:40.137
but it's done just effortlessly, and essentially the get out or the, the one option to escape being controlled for two of the young Black girls learning magic is to join a magical broom racing team.
00:50:40.347 --> 00:50:44.777
So there are illegal broom races that happen under the radar of the authorities.
00:50:45.188 --> 00:50:46.858
So you've got...
00:50:46.867 --> 00:50:51.382
Then there's loads of other kind of stuff going on, but then you've got these kind of broom races, with these sort of,
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.798
Could just imagine how that would look on the page.
00:50:53.798 --> 00:50:54.869
That would be really cool
00:50:55.556 --> 00:51:03.217
So yeah, so it's quite, the illustration style is really pared back, but it's, yeah, it's absolutely amazing.
00:51:03.226 --> 00:51:07.657
And yeah, I just, everything about this I was like...
00:51:07.867 --> 00:51:22.012
But I think Bex Gleundining did the lettering, I think maybe for it, and then that ended up leading me to, or someone recommended On Starlit Shores, which is her, um, graphic novel, and this is just really beautiful.
00:51:22.012 --> 00:51:32.125
It's So you've got the main character in here, um, Alex, goes back to this town called Indigo Harbor to basically go through her grandmother's belongings.
00:51:32.135 --> 00:51:35.114
So her grandmother, who she really loved, has just died.
00:51:35.143 --> 00:51:37.655
and she's kind of having to return to her childhood home.
00:51:37.666 --> 00:51:42.068
But Indigo Harbor is a magical place, but Alex doesn't realize it's a magical place.
00:51:42.070 --> 00:51:50.065
and there's things about her grandmother's past that kind of start surfacing up that she, she has to deal with, but also things in the town are getting strange.
00:51:50.375 --> 00:51:51.824
Um, there are falling stars.
00:51:51.824 --> 00:51:53.855
There are sort of witches running into tea shops.
00:51:53.860 --> 00:52:00.817
and there's this woman's name, Elizabeth, that comes up again and again, who she's trying to uncover what that person's relationship was to her grandmother.
00:52:00.827 --> 00:52:10.956
So it's sort of about how you, how you process grief, how you deal with losing someone you loved, but also then how you react to finding out things about them that you never knew.
00:52:10.956 --> 00:52:15.447
There's a lot of sort of using kind of very monochrome.
00:52:15.447 --> 00:52:21.606
It's very kind of purples and burgundies and pinks almost quite dreamlike, but it's re- it's a really beautiful story.
00:52:21.646 --> 00:52:24.146
Um, and I very rarely see people talk about
00:52:24.282 --> 00:52:24.822
Yeah.
00:52:24.833 --> 00:52:30.472
It's not one that's come up, for me before, so that's really exciting to discover some new things from this conversation as well.
00:52:31.052 --> 00:52:32.652
Yeah, no, it's been absolutely lovely.
00:52:32.652 --> 00:52:38.938
I love talking about graphic novels and comics and, yeah, I rarely get to do so with someone who reads as many as I do, if not more
00:52:40.114 --> 00:52:48.570
So we usually end the podcast, to just pull out a takeaway or something to think about or a kind of actionable point, that people could, um, take away.
00:52:48.610 --> 00:52:54.639
Obviously, there's quite a clear actionable point, I think, from this, which is that if you've heard some books that you weren't familiar with today, go out and find them.
00:52:54.916 --> 00:52:58.623
did you have anything more broadly that you would like to say to the listeners?
00:52:58.704 --> 00:53:04.304
Yeah, I think it's, I've, so I think I've got three things that I think are my sort of bugbears when it comes to comics.
00:53:04.304 --> 00:53:07.043
I think don't treat comics as a genre.
00:53:07.103 --> 00:53:08.974
It's, like, it's a format.
00:53:08.994 --> 00:53:19.094
So just like books can span everything from talking animals to really complex explorations of history, I think comics can do the same.
00:53:19.094 --> 00:53:27.534
So I think if you s- if you think about them like that, that they are just the format, and it's about exploring the breadth and depth of them, I think that's really key.
00:53:27.563 --> 00:53:36.353
I think they can be really great for kids that maybe struggle to engage with books or struggle with reading, or in that kind of transition period.
00:53:36.353 --> 00:53:43.673
I think visual storytelling is really underrated in terms of how that can h- enhance reading and reading for pleasure.
00:53:43.686 --> 00:54:00.757
I think that comics have this ability, I think look at their ability to inspire creativity,'cause that's what I noticed with my son is when he's read a comic book or a graphic novel, he will start drawing something from it afterwards, and that doesn't happen so much with chapter books or text-based
00:54:00.927 --> 00:54:01.577
Completely agree.
00:54:01.967 --> 00:54:03.766
That's something that I love talking about.
00:54:03.766 --> 00:54:20.590
I'm really interested in, thinking about visual literacy from a creative side as well, when we're looking at visual texts, we are, we are being communicated with, we're having an emotional response, and we're taking on information, but we're also learning about creating images and how to communicate through image, and there's an output side of it as well.
00:54:20.590 --> 00:54:26.577
It happens so naturally often with children who are, are engaging with comics, that it's, it's a real...
00:54:26.617 --> 00:54:32.688
Also, as much as it's a gateway into, to reading often, it's also a gateway into writing for pleasure and s- and storytelling
00:54:32.824 --> 00:54:38.673
Yeah, abso-- and I think just'cause it's visual doesn't mean it's not valuable, um, in the same way.
00:54:38.673 --> 00:54:48.833
And like it's one of the things actually I started doing when I go in-- So, like one of the things I do with schools is I will do a little mini workshop on kind of, it's almost creating a blueprint for a time travel idea.
00:54:49.463 --> 00:55:00.018
But in order to make it more accessible,'cause I noticed there were some kids, who for v-various reasons might be struggling with writing or understanding, I will literally say to the kids, I'm like,"You can write this however you want.
00:55:00.057 --> 00:55:06.108
You can do bullet points, you can write sentences, or you can draw it." Like I don't, I was like,"I don't care how you put your ideas together.
00:55:06.108 --> 00:55:18.418
That's totally up to you." And so you will get a lot of kids who will just start drawing the ideas, and that way the storytelling just becomes-- Or, and then some kids will write their ideas, and then if they have time, then they'll start illustrating them.
00:55:18.827 --> 00:55:25.527
But it's been really interesting giving them that permission to say, actually this is cr- this is a creative session.
00:55:25.538 --> 00:55:30.297
This is not about, uh, whatever learning objective your teacher may have that's very important.
00:55:30.518 --> 00:55:33.668
So if you wanna draw your ideas, draw them.
00:55:34.378 --> 00:55:34.717
If you wanna
00:55:34.818 --> 00:55:35.358
great.
00:55:35.797 --> 00:55:37.407
And I think it really unlocks...
00:55:37.418 --> 00:55:50.347
If you think about how we start our, how we start communicating on paper, actually drawing is often one of the first things that happen If you talk to very young children about their drawings, there normally is something happening.
00:55:50.358 --> 00:55:51.797
Like, they're not just trying to represent.
00:55:52.077 --> 00:55:53.467
There is a story behind it.
00:55:53.467 --> 00:55:54.438
Like, this isn't that.
00:55:54.487 --> 00:55:55.467
There's, it's not just a person.
00:55:55.467 --> 00:55:56.068
It's somebody...
00:55:56.108 --> 00:56:00.518
They, they know who it is and what they're doing and where they've just been and and what's happening over there.
00:56:00.518 --> 00:56:09.297
And it also evolves, like, and then there's this over here, and now, so now I'm changing what my picture's about because it's kind of, it evolves as they add more things to it.
00:56:09.307 --> 00:56:16.494
There's, they kind of piece together a narrative, and that's what we see, like, children doing in the early years, and I feel like we should encourage that more to
00:56:16.782 --> 00:56:19.652
Yeah, I feel it sort of shut, it slightly shut down.
00:56:19.652 --> 00:56:25.492
It sort of all becomes about sentences and format and grammar and getting your adverbs in there, and it's like...
00:56:25.753 --> 00:56:39.913
And I know that's, I know that's important, it's foundational, but I feel like there could be more space for just the creativity part and exploring how you express things visually as well, because I think that, yeah, it just unlocks something different for kids
00:56:40.409 --> 00:56:40.829
Absolutely.
00:56:40.838 --> 00:56:47.148
I've been doing some I do run training called The Big Picture, which is all about visual literacy for t- for teachers, and I just delivered it yesterday.
00:56:47.398 --> 00:57:11.878
We were just talking about this very thing, about how to, keep the door open for,, for image and words going together for communication, and also for this kind of transmedia where, where children and young people want to take characters or scenarios from things that in the culture around them, like whether that be films, books, comics, and then bring them into their storytelling, which we often don't leave much space for.
00:57:11.878 --> 00:57:20.494
But it's actually a really normal response to processing the culture that you're surrounded by, to be able to go,"Okay, I'm gonna take this character.
00:57:20.704 --> 00:57:27.985
Your unicorn boy is now doing something else, and it's a story that I've got, I've got control of him in this world that I've created, and
00:57:28.068 --> 00:57:35.148
it's fan fiction and I think, yeah, kids should be allowed to do fan fiction because it's, you know, that's, that's a whole industry.
00:57:35.447 --> 00:57:36.657
Yeah, exactly.
00:57:39.291 --> 00:57:51.391
The final, final, final thing that we do on the podcast is if we were to add one book, so you've come up and had lots of recommendations today, but if we were to just add one book to our to be read piles, what would you recommend?
00:57:51.853 --> 00:57:53.364
yeah, I'm gonna say Luna Boy.
00:57:54.034 --> 00:57:55.494
Luna Boy by Jez and Sen Wimbua.
00:57:55.954 --> 00:58:02.094
I just think it's the most beautiful graphic novel and the most wonderful story, and yeah.
00:58:02.094 --> 00:58:05.523
And I'm just gonna stop looking at my shelf, otherwise I'll say more things.
00:58:05.614 --> 00:58:06.094
But yeah, I'm
00:58:06.349 --> 00:58:11.300
I'm gonna suggest one which I'm reading at the moment, which is a bit, bit different,'cause it, it has got comics in it.
00:58:11.346 --> 00:58:15.695
Which is Making Nonfiction Comics, the book's called.
00:58:16.206 --> 00:58:19.806
And, it is by Ellery Harris and Sarah Mirk.
00:58:19.925 --> 00:58:23.045
And it is so good.
00:58:23.045 --> 00:58:24.826
It's a step-by-step kind of guide.
00:58:25.155 --> 00:58:28.126
There's lots of different interviews with different nonfiction comic creators.
00:58:28.405 --> 00:58:30.065
Talks about comics journalism.
00:58:30.335 --> 00:58:43.099
Talks about how to do an interview, how to keep track of your sources, how to challenge, biases, how to ensure you're getting a, y- you know, that you're telling untold stories in your comics, and it's just a really...
00:58:44.389 --> 00:58:45.159
It's really cool.
00:58:46.710 --> 00:58:47.900
It's making me think.
00:58:47.949 --> 00:58:54.250
It's one of those things like, now I think I'm gonna be a nonfiction comic creator after t- after 20 pages.
00:58:54.260 --> 00:58:54.659
Like, yeah.
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:56.130
Oh, this is my new identity.
00:58:56.170 --> 00:58:56.739
Thank you for that one.
00:58:57.690 --> 00:58:58.039
But it's
00:58:58.043 --> 00:59:07.914
if I c- if I could draw, I mean, yeah, if I could actually learn how to draw, uh, I- my problem is I'm very good at, I can replicate things, but I'm not, I can't originate.
00:59:07.963 --> 00:59:11.384
My son is much better at originating, so I may, I may just train him up.
00:59:11.574 --> 00:59:12.643
In 10 years time
00:59:12.961 --> 00:59:16.532
He can be your, yeah, he can do all of your adaptations for you.
00:59:16.592 --> 00:59:17.342
That sounds great.
00:59:17.641 --> 00:59:19.192
But it's been absolutely brilliant to talk to you today.
00:59:19.192 --> 00:59:20.422
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
00:59:21.023 --> 00:59:22.054
Oh, thank you for having me.
00:59:22.063 --> 00:59:22.974
This has been such a pleasure.
00:59:23.034 --> 00:59:23.474
Thank you
00:59:26.077 --> 00:59:26.737
There you have it.
00:59:26.757 --> 00:59:30.648
What a great guest and what a strong list of recommendations.
00:59:30.668 --> 00:59:33.327
Some of them I knew and was a really big fan of already.
00:59:33.338 --> 00:59:38.057
Some of them completely new to me, and I'm definitely going to go and check those out.
00:59:38.068 --> 00:59:42.148
Really, really interesting wide range of titles there for us to explore.
00:59:42.398 --> 00:59:58.496
The first thing that caught my eye on Claire's Instagram feed was her recommending and just going into great detail about how great Neil Cameron's Mega Robo- Bros series Is, and I knew from that moment on that we were gonna get on like a house on fire because it's unbeatable.
00:59:58.505 --> 00:59:59.568
Such a great series.
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:08.777
my recommendation for today, I've already given some in the episode, but I'm also gonna flag, a new one that came across my path, this year, Unfairies by Hugh Aaron.
01:00:09.077 --> 01:00:09.757
It's funny.
01:00:09.858 --> 01:00:15.199
Great characters, really engaging storyline, and an interesting approach to artwork.
01:00:15.259 --> 01:00:18.083
I always am kind of led by the artwork.
01:00:18.083 --> 01:00:24.918
And it's more of a kind of watercolor and sketchy approach to artwork, which you don't necessarily always see in children's graphic novel category.
01:00:24.927 --> 01:00:26.847
And just really witty and engaging.
01:00:26.847 --> 01:00:28.456
Hugh Aaron's a great writer.
01:00:28.487 --> 01:00:31.409
Lots of really funny, engaging picture books, from him as well.
01:00:31.409 --> 01:00:32.398
So check that out.
01:00:32.429 --> 01:00:36.548
A Welsh author, illustrator, someone worth exploring a little bit more.
01:00:36.898 --> 01:00:39.940
And other news on new books, new books on the block.
01:00:39.951 --> 01:00:53.860
You may have also seen as well if you're following on social media, Comic Boom, comic_boom_podcast, that Helen Jones and I have a book out together called Comics in the Classroom, published by Routledge.
01:00:53.860 --> 01:01:02.840
It is now out and available to purchase, and it is all about using comics in the classroom from primary age right up through to key stage three.
01:01:03.141 --> 01:01:12.920
Lots of practical advice, lots of recommended titles, research-based, the evidence base for why, it can really improve outcomes in c- your classroom to start working with comics.
01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:22.376
There are things in there that you might not expect, like a section on sustainability, how we approached exploring themes of the environment through comics, thinking through comics,.
01:01:22.806 --> 01:01:36.375
We've got specific chapters on, the importance of diversity when exploring comics, and also accessibility in comics as well, and some of the challenges picked out in those as well, not just all the benefits, but, some of limitations, some of the things that need to be improved.
01:01:36.715 --> 01:01:39.065
So, a really practical guide for educators.
01:01:39.065 --> 01:01:42.155
Librarians and teachers will all find things, something of interest there.
01:01:42.744 --> 01:01:43.824
Worth checking out.
01:01:43.914 --> 01:01:48.204
But I would say that, but if you're listening to this podcast, definitely check that book out.
01:01:48.255 --> 01:01:52.164
You should be able to get it from your library as well as from your local bookshop.
01:01:52.394 --> 01:01:56.364
That's Comics in the Classroom by Lucy Starbuck-Bradley and Helen Jones.
01:01:56.719 --> 01:01:57.539
That's it for us today.
01:01:57.539 --> 01:02:02.159
You've been listening to Comic Boom, which is hosted and produced by me, Lucy Starbuck-Bradley.
01:02:02.170 --> 01:02:02.980
Thanks for listening.
