Comic Boom - Comics in Education with Jamie Smart

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Hello and welcome to Comic Boom, the Comics and Education podcast.
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If you are interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you.
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My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, a librarian, an academic, or a creator of comics, to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice and hopefully shine some light on some titles you can bring into your libraries, classrooms, and your bookshelves at home too.
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This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by A LCS, the author's licensing and Collecting Society, and today I can hardly contain my excitement.
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We celebrate 50 episodes of Comic Boom, and I am joined by the one, the only, Jamie Smart.
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I am sure you all know Jamie's characters and the colorful worlds.
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They inhabit his comics of delighted children for decades.
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In the pages of national institutions such as The Dandy, the Beano, DFC, and the Phoenix, his long running weekly comic strip bunny versus monkey is still going strong in the Phoenix and of course has been collated into hugely popular bestselling award-winning bunny versus monkey books.
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I'm a huge fan of his work personally, and he is also, I have now found out just a really lovely person to chat to.
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really generous with his time talking about his work and, and his background, his approach to creating, I found it an absolutely.
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Fascinating conversation.
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We talked about, bunny versus monkey about his early career.
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We talk about the audio book There's just one, best audio book in the, nippy awards that just this week.
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There's just so much to cover.
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I think you're really gonna enjoy this one.
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Here's what Jamie had to say.
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Hello Jamie.
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Welcome to Comic Boom.
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Hi.
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Thank you for having me.
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You are very welcome.
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It is very exciting to have you here.
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Dreamed of having you on the show, so it's brilliant that you are so generous of your time and have accepted.
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So thank you very much.
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No, you're very kind.
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As I said, I've been listening to a lot of them and, uh, I think you're doing amazing work.
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So I was honored.
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I'm, I'm, I'm the, I'm the excited one here.
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first of all, I always like to get guests to tell us a little bit about your journey as a comics reader.
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When did you start becoming aware of comics as a form, and how did that love start for you?
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I.
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Uh, I mean, it's hard to put an age on it, isn't it?
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But I just, as long as I can remember when I was very, very young, my dad used to drive me to the news agents every Sunday morning, like at the crack of dawn when they were still offloading the newspapers off the vans to put them on the shelves.
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And so you'd go in and you couldn't really get round the news agent'cause there were so many bundles of newspapers all over the place.
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Um.
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And I just, I, that's always stuck with me.
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That was such an exciting place to be.
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All the smells of the newsprint and the sweets and the blackjacks and the fruit salads and whatever.
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So I'd go there and I'd, I'd get all the comics I could, I could get my hands on.
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And there were a lot back in the eighties that you could buy just off the shelves.
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so that was really exciting that, that.
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Really instilled it in me, I think.
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And I had a few friends at school who were really into'em as well.
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So we'd, we'd swap and talk about'em a lot and draw our own cartoons and, uh, yeah.
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So it's, it's, it's always been there.
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Back then it was like Wizard and Chips and Buster and, um, the Dandy and Oink and, topper, uh, even girls comics like Mandy and things like that.
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Like I used to just consume all of them.
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I just.
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They were so fun and it felt like my little world, it felt like somewhere I could inhabit away from the real world.
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So, uh, yeah, I've always felt at home, very at home with comics.
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What do you think it was that that pulled you in?
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Was it storytelling?
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Was it the imagery or was it that essential combination of both Really.
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I.
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Uh, I think.
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I mean, there's all of that.
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I think what comics do really well is the spontaneity, and especially when you have a weekly comic and it has 10, 12 different characters in it and each of them has like two pages or something.
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for a child that works really well because.
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You're going like, bam, here's a story, and bam, here's a different story and here's a different, and, and so you are jumping from story to story and it's just very quick bursts of, of just silliness basically.
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Uh, and I think that's what really appealed to me.
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Like every page you turned, you didn't know what sort of crazy character there'd been next.
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Uh, and that.
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Also is, has kind of fed into me.
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Like I don't have the longest attention span as an adult, which is why I do very short comics as well.
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but often that's what you want.
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You just wanna pick something up and put it down and, and, and I think that's, uh, again, that's what comics do really well.
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And do you think that, so you spoke a little bit as well, like about your friend friends reading them, and something that I kind of observe, that it seems a bit distinct for comics versus other books, which is that they do tend to get passed around or shared, or.
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Immediately a kind of community builds up around around a comic that I think sometimes happens with kind of other children's literature, but not to the same extent.
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It's not, it, it's kind of a rare event.
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When something becomes very culturally significant to children.
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That's, that started as a book without it going into like being a film.
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but when comics in my classroom certainly would straight away be shared, passed around.
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That sort of idea of community was that part of it too, do you think?
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The, the most satisfying thing to see when, when kids bring their copies of bunny vs monkey up for me to sign is the most satisfying thing is when it's a really battered dog-eared
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Yeah.
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it's, it's clearly been read and it's been passed around and everyone's borrowed it.
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And that's just so exciting.
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'cause for me, one of the best things about comics as a medium, as a, as a printed, uh, weekly medium as it was, was that.
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They felt disposable.
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They felt like you would stuff them in the bottom of your school bag or, you know, you'd pass'em around or even that you'd drawn on them yourselves or you'd tear them up and make your own collages out of them.
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That it is that disposable nature that I, that I really, really identified with.
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And even as I got older into my twenties and thirties, and I was, and my friends were, you know, collecting, uh, comic comics as in, you know, the, the more traditional Marvel or DC sort.
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Um, and they were keeping them bagged and, and boarded and, and careful boxes and sort of locked away.
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And I just, I even then, I couldn't understand that.
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I thought, no, comics are an amazing, uh, medium for just.
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Tearing apart and breaking and, and I, I know that's sacrilege to a lot of people, but for me it is just that disposable nature is, is really appealing.
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Yeah.
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That's so interesting.
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And so you're talking about getting older.
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What sort of things are you now reading?
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What are you seeing out there that really appeals to you as a reader now?
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Oh, it's still, it's still children's comics.
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I, I don't really, I read a few sort of more grownup comics here and there, but mostly it's, it is children's comics.
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I don't get a lot of time to read.
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Most of what I read is things I get sent, like advances or people wanting quotes for things or, so that gives me a, a really good opportunity to see sort of what's coming out and what's on the way.
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I mean, the last.
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The last amazing thing I saw was, donut Squad, Neil Cameron's donut squad, which is, I
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Weird donut squad.
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Mad.
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I haven't seen the, but only, I've only seen the strips in, in the Phoenix.
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But
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um, as
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household loves donut
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Scott.
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It's, well, that's the thing.
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I I, I think it's gonna be absolutely huge'cause it's, it's just perfect for kids.
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It's, it's that kind of pick up and put down nature.
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It's all these millions of different characters and all these variations.
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and that's why it appeals to me because I, I don't have the concentration to, to follow a very long story arc and, you know, stick with, stick with more grown up sort of graphic novels.
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I prefer the.
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The immediacy of kids comics.
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So that's, that's kind of what I'm reading.
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If I'm not reading kids comics, I'm reading like ghost stories or things like that.
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Uh, more grownup books.
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that's kind of what I prefer.
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but that, that middle ground of, of grownup graphic novels, I don't, yeah, I don't really read enough of them.
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I should do.
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That's super interesting.
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I'm really into, like, I really like autobiographical comics written by women.
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A quite serious subject matter, often quite a lot of trauma involved, but they're really beautiful.
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I really like that, but I also really like reading children's comics as well, and I don't just do that because of the podcast or because my children, I really like,
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well, you need the, you need the, the different tones, don't you?
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And that's, that's where comics really come into their own, because you can tell very serious, weighty subjects and you can also do fart jokes and bum jokes and, and, and, and all, and everything in between.
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and all of it is valid and it all comes under this umbrella of comics.
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and I think that's kind of been neglected for quite a while, that it's, it's a really.
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Important vital source of, you know, people expressing themselves.
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Yeah, that breadth gets missed quite a lot in the conversations.
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Like if I tell people I like comics, they quite often the assumption is I'm talking about super hero comics.
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Yeah.
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Which I don't really know very much about at all.
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Making your own comic strips as a child, is that something that you just kept doing and never stopped?
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Was there a time in your life where that kind of dropped off and then you picked it back up?
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how do we join the dots from Jamie as a child to Jamie now?
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I remember always drawing pictures like from 2, 3, 4.
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I've got, pictures from a long time ago and I would assume that I was always drawing pictures.
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And then when I found comics at an early age that then kind of.
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Made me think, oh, well these pictures could then go into comics.
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And so I think the, the two things, the reading and the creating, I think they just kind of mulch together and they, they become one it just, it always seemed a very natural thing to do, to try and if, if you are shown an example of what you can do with something you've already been doing, that, that can be quite mind blowing, especially for someone very, very young.
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so yeah, I've always, I feel like I've always drawn comics, I was listening to one of your interviews recently where they were you, you were talking about Snoopy a lot and I, I liked Snoopy, but I always preferred Garfield.
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I was,'cause Garfield was slightly more mainstream and a bit more, obvious perhaps it didn't have the subtleties that Snoopy had.
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but I used to really, really love Garfield and me and my friend Steven used to trace.
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the images of Garfield out the book and then turn the tracing paper over and then rub on the other side technique.
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Yeah.
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So, so, and slowly we'd be making our own Garfield comics out, you know, basically copying Garfield.
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that made us feel like, oh, we are professional comic artist now.
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I mean, obviously we weren't, but, uh, that, that was where it started to become, kind of industrial, I guess, kind of.
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Like, oh, we could, we could churn these out.
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We could make loads and
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Mm-hmm.
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and yeah, it's, it's, it's a journey.
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As you go along, you, you get better and better and you, you love it more and more.
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And, and soon you wouldn't know how to do anything else.
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So,
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And how did you, what was your kind of first big break into having something published?
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I.
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Uh, when I was at, uh, I left school at 15 and I went to art college for two years and then a different art college for another two years.
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Um, and I was fortunate with those art colleges that my tutors were big fans of comics and they, and so basically they said, look, if you want to, oh, these were graphic design courses and I'm terrible at graphic design, but it just, it was the nearest thing I could find to doing art of some sort.
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And they said, look, if you, if you wanna lean into comics for, for this course, that's absolutely fine.
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Because obviously that's what you want to do.
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and so they let me basically my end of course, final show was basically a comic strip I'd come up with and, and kind of all these decorations around it and things like that.
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And a friend's dad saw it and it turned out he published a magazine, a cookery magazine, and he said to me, do you want to draw a comic strip every week?
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And I found them again recently and they're, they're not very readable'cause they're kind of hand painted little comic strips.
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It was called Whistle Whale and Flea.
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And they were.
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Food importers.
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There's like this big guy in a chef's outfit and a cat, and they were just basically sassy to each other.
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and yeah, they were hand painted in gouache and ink and.
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They didn't print very well.
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but I dunno, he seemed to like them and he seemed to keep running them.
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But that was the first time I went into WH Smith and, and, and found my comic in a, in a printed magazine, and that was so exciting.
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So I would've been about 18 or 19, I think when
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so cool.
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And then how did bunny versus monkey and the Phoenix start, how long after that did that happen?
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well, it's always, so I've always worked a lot on my own comics and my own ideas, and not just in comics, but like greetings cards.
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I'd come up with a range and I'd, I'd send them out.
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this was in the old days before email.
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I'd send them out in manila envelopes to just every company I could think of.
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And when I'd done that, I'd then.
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Be coming up with another comic that I'd then send out to every publisher I could find, and, and it was just a continual cycle of.
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Yeah.
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Uh, I'm, I'm really excited about making these things.
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Would, would you wanna print them?
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Um, and obviously most people say no.
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I mean, it's the slew of rejections, but I didn't really mind rejections never really bothered me because by the time someone had rejected me, I was already working on something else.
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Anyway, so it was just carrying on all the time.
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so I've always, always, always been sending my work out.
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and so my first, I think my first comics, comics sort of gig was, uh, the fun day times.
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I managed to do a, a strip called Space Row in the Fun Day Times, which was, a dream for me.
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And then that.
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I dunno if that led directly to working for the Dandy, but certainly somewhere alongside it I started working for The Dandy as well.
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and then I heard about this comic called the DFC, which was the original version of the Phoenix or, or a precursor to it.
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but I was under contract to a TV company at the time where I wasn't allowed to pitch original ideas to other places.
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So I couldn't, there wasn't much I could do for the DFC, but fortunately we found a way around it and I, I ended up doing a strip called Fish Head, Steve, for that.
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And then when the Phoenix came back around, I said, well, I've got this other idea that I was kind of pushing around as a book that I think would be really good.
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And that was Bunny verse Monkey.
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And, and yeah, they went for it.
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And it just seems to me like when I think, before I approached you to interview, I felt quite intimidated, but it wasn't because how famous you are.
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Um, it wasn't'cause of your success.
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I think it's because of the, I.
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Just the amount of work, like what sort of person has the brain that can just create all this stuff constantly.
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It's kind of like, it's, it's amazing.
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So I'm really interested in how, and you've kind of just been talking, you know, constantly having ideas.
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What is the day in your life of like, you know, how do you, what does your creative process look like?
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'cause it just seems you have so much great stuff coming out all the time.
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Thank you.
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I'll be honest, I think it is too much at the moment.
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I think I've kind of got myself to a point where I'm trying to do too many different projects.
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and my publisher's really sympathetic and helpful.
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It's not them at all.
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It's me.
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It's, it's just the excitement of wanting to make things all the time.
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and I think I need to tail it off a bit.
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I think maybe over the next year or two, I need to finish a few big projects and, and just kind of have a few days off here and
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Still meditating.
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Yeah, exactly.
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but as for sort of up till now, it's always, it's just been so exciting to do.
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And that's, that's all I can say about it.
00:15:37.082 --> 00:15:38.948
It's just, especially through my twenties.
00:15:38.948 --> 00:15:47.499
I remember waking up, uh, this was back in the days of dial up, so you could only check the internet up until, what was it, eight or 9:00 AM and then it got really expensive.
00:15:47.499 --> 00:15:49.749
So you, you didn't, you didn't use the internet all day.
00:15:49.777 --> 00:15:53.850
So I'd wake up really early and I'd check the internet and emails.
00:15:53.909 --> 00:15:54.750
and then that was it.
00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:57.629
And then I had had a whole day working and I'd work through till.
00:15:58.034 --> 00:15:59.294
Nine or 10 in the evening.
00:15:59.325 --> 00:16:04.695
And it's, and that's not healthy, and I'm not saying anyone should do it, but it was just, I was buzzing.
00:16:04.695 --> 00:16:17.076
I was so excited to just be making things, even if I didn't have a publisher for them or, or anything even before the internet where you, you are getting some kind of instant gratification from people liking your work.
00:16:17.107 --> 00:16:21.592
it was just It was, maybe it was partly emulating what I'd seen.
00:16:21.592 --> 00:16:26.993
So when you grow up reading comics in your head, you think, oh, that'd be amazing to do when I'm an adult.
00:16:27.082 --> 00:16:34.702
So you are, you are trying to, it feels like a kind of dream come true that you are doing the thing that you loved when you were growing up.
00:16:35.113 --> 00:16:39.788
but I dunno, I just, I'm, yeah, I'm thrilled, constantly excited to be doing this.
00:16:39.788 --> 00:16:41.708
So that's, that's what drives me.
00:16:42.229 --> 00:16:51.739
And was it easier, do you think, in the, in those earlier days when you only had the internet for an hour and then there were, were there fewer distractions then?
00:16:51.798 --> 00:16:59.599
And then also now I'm thinking with the, your popularity must have a lot of kind of press things or publisher things and other stuff going on.
00:16:59.599 --> 00:17:01.759
Is it harder to get into your kind of creative zone now?
00:17:02.328 --> 00:17:03.558
Yeah, definitely.
00:17:03.558 --> 00:17:10.003
There's, I mean, I, I feel very privileged to be where I am now, and I, I wouldn't knock it at all.
00:17:10.003 --> 00:17:16.125
But you do, you get asked to do a lot of things, and they might be festivals or workshops or things like that.
00:17:16.163 --> 00:17:19.493
most, 99% of which I, I just, I can't do.
00:17:19.984 --> 00:17:22.493
but you do also get asked a lot of, other things.
00:17:22.493 --> 00:17:35.663
It's a privilege to do it, but it feels more on the admin side of things, whereas you think, well, I, I wanted to be a comic artist to make comics, and if I keep jumping into the mind space of doing these press events or, or whatever, I.
00:17:36.153 --> 00:17:37.974
Then that's time away from comics.
00:17:37.974 --> 00:17:43.015
And then it takes a little time for your brain to kind of sink back into comic mode and, and making stuff.
00:17:43.015 --> 00:17:48.474
And as a result, you can lose a few days just over a, a couple of hours of writing an article or something.
00:17:48.954 --> 00:17:53.409
Um, again, that's something I, I tend to sort of shy away from where possible.
00:17:53.409 --> 00:17:58.989
I, I try not to do these things because I don't feel like I have enough time to do all the things I wanna do anyway.
00:17:59.348 --> 00:18:02.709
So I need to, I need a bit better time management on it all.
00:18:02.968 --> 00:18:07.107
I think it's really interesting, um, in the context of school and education as well.
00:18:07.107 --> 00:18:14.548
'cause quite often we're expecting children to do things like writing or creating stories in very specific chunks of time.
00:18:14.548 --> 00:18:21.478
And it's like, right, get your English books out, write the beginning of your story and then you're not, you're gonna write the middle tomorrow and the ending on the next day.
00:18:22.018 --> 00:18:25.587
And that's actually quite a hard thing to do to like do that on the clock.
00:18:25.617 --> 00:18:26.548
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:26.548 --> 00:18:26.847
Yeah.
00:18:27.057 --> 00:18:37.137
I, if I, you can, well, I can tell the difference in my comics between one that I wrote on a day when I was really in the zone and one where I just needed to get a comic done.
00:18:37.468 --> 00:18:41.788
Now I'm hoping readers can't notice that difference, but I can very much see that difference.
00:18:42.252 --> 00:18:42.542
Yeah.
00:18:44.577 --> 00:18:47.758
Um, I'd, I'd never just kind of ship it out.
00:18:47.758 --> 00:18:51.988
I'd never, I'd never put it out unless I was happy with it, but, but I can tell that.
00:18:52.647 --> 00:18:55.428
You know, especially, uh, like the Looshkin comics.
00:18:55.428 --> 00:18:58.587
The Looshkin comics are a very different beast for me to write.
00:18:59.067 --> 00:19:08.772
And they have their own, not their own vocabulary, but they have their own kind of, boundaries and physics to them that I.
00:19:09.896 --> 00:19:12.717
If I'm not in the right mood to write them, they just do not work.
00:19:12.717 --> 00:19:24.896
And it just looks like someone trying to be wacky for the sake of being wacky and, oh, let's put a catch phrase here and a fart here, and it, and it's just, it looks very contrived, but they're, but when I'm in the zone and I can do it properly, then it.
00:19:25.257 --> 00:19:26.696
Then it just sings for me.
00:19:26.696 --> 00:19:28.856
It absolutely flies, and it's some of my best work.
00:19:29.186 --> 00:19:31.557
And I'm, I think that was the same when I was at school.
00:19:31.557 --> 00:19:35.606
There were just some days when if you were trying to write a story, it just, it wasn't working.
00:19:35.876 --> 00:19:38.696
And the more you pound away at it, the worse it gets.
00:19:38.967 --> 00:19:47.990
And there are some days when you, when you discover the freedom of creativity rather than, scripted creativity rather than timetabled creativity.
00:19:48.587 --> 00:19:52.303
on those, and on those times, that's when you, you write your best stuff.
00:19:52.303 --> 00:19:54.883
That's when you, when you hand in your best work, I think.
00:19:55.542 --> 00:19:56.532
Yeah, for sure.
00:19:57.042 --> 00:20:01.903
I'm also really interested in a little bit on the same theme that kind of A lot of your work seems very character based.
00:20:01.948 --> 00:20:09.124
and I think generating character ideas can be really difficult as a teacher to get children to come up with an idea.
00:20:09.173 --> 00:20:15.923
Do you have any advice on how, how do you come up with your characters or are there any good ways to support children who are developing their own comics?
00:20:16.719 --> 00:20:21.398
I mean, it's, it sounds like a cliche, but all your best characters are parts of you.
00:20:21.398 --> 00:20:23.439
You're, you're expressing parts of you.
00:20:23.502 --> 00:20:29.733
and this is what I always tell kids, is that every character in bunny versus monkey is a part of me.
00:20:29.733 --> 00:20:33.753
It's an emotion in me that I've just amplified and exaggerated.
00:20:33.753 --> 00:20:36.814
So Bunny is like a character.
00:20:36.844 --> 00:20:39.963
He's kind of the sensible anchor of it, but he just wants to be left alone.
00:20:40.001 --> 00:20:41.352
He doesn't want all this drama.
00:20:41.382 --> 00:20:43.241
And that's, you know, very much a part of me.
00:20:43.241 --> 00:20:47.531
Whereas Monkey is this very naughty character, and that's another part of me.
00:20:47.531 --> 00:20:51.071
It's just I've ballooned it up into this kind of comedic thing.
00:20:51.071 --> 00:20:53.561
And, and ev every character in between is another part.
00:20:53.561 --> 00:20:57.461
There's a shy character or there's a reckless character or whatever.
00:20:57.503 --> 00:21:01.193
and when you do that, when you, when you make them.
00:21:01.854 --> 00:21:08.542
When you pull them out of yourself, these characters, they become a lot easier to write because you know how they're going to react.
00:21:08.603 --> 00:21:11.607
Your brain knows how it's gonna react in certain situations.
00:21:11.678 --> 00:21:14.738
and so, yeah, for me, bunny verse monkey has never.
00:21:15.337 --> 00:21:19.208
Really been that hard to write because it's, it's therapy for me.
00:21:19.208 --> 00:21:24.692
It's, it's getting my emotions and thoughts down on the page, anonymously through these characters.
00:21:24.692 --> 00:21:28.817
And so I get to, I get to speak to the world without saying it directly.
00:21:28.817 --> 00:21:29.957
so yeah, it's.
00:21:30.497 --> 00:21:32.470
All my work is very, very personal.
00:21:32.481 --> 00:21:38.269
but it's just, it's presented in a very mainstream, colorful, easily accessible sort of way.
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.325
but it does, it, it all comes from the heart very much.
00:21:41.534 --> 00:21:48.594
how do you feel when you get, presumably children show youth, like they've used your characters, but in their own stories.
00:21:49.294 --> 00:21:51.759
When that first started to happen, what, what was that like?
00:21:52.189 --> 00:21:53.058
Oh, it's amazing.
00:21:53.058 --> 00:21:55.361
I mean, it's, it's an honor every time you see it.
00:21:55.372 --> 00:22:01.942
and it just, it just reminds me of when I was making my Garfield comics as a kid and you know, and then it's, yeah.
00:22:01.942 --> 00:22:04.761
And then I stuck with it and then made my own characters, isn't it?
00:22:04.761 --> 00:22:07.416
It's just, yeah, there's, there's no words for it really.
00:22:07.416 --> 00:22:09.096
It's just, it's mind blowing every time
00:22:11.686 --> 00:22:16.176
And this is the same thing for plot lines do you have a bank or you've got, do you keep a notebook?
00:22:16.275 --> 00:22:18.654
to kind of grab things when they come to you?
00:22:18.654 --> 00:22:20.605
Or are you keeping scribbly notes?
00:22:20.605 --> 00:22:30.811
How do you keep track of, because you, when you've got, I guess that short, short form stories, you need to have quite a lot of different things happening, um, all the time.
00:22:30.811 --> 00:22:31.801
So yeah.
00:22:31.801 --> 00:22:32.642
How do you keep track of all
00:22:32.656 --> 00:22:37.344
of those ideas it's something I, no, I don't, I don't particularly make notes or anything like that.
00:22:37.374 --> 00:22:42.534
It's, it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently because I've been, become very aware that I've done.
00:22:43.388 --> 00:22:47.858
Well, there have been 10 bunny vest monkey books, and we've got another three or four in the can already.
00:22:47.858 --> 00:22:51.759
So, so let's say 14 bunny vs monkey books, and there is a limit.
00:22:51.969 --> 00:23:00.308
So there, there's a limit to how many times you can tell these stories without repeating yourself, without going back over the same things.
00:23:00.308 --> 00:23:02.348
Because there, there are themes to all of them.
00:23:02.348 --> 00:23:09.958
They're, you know, a big monster or let's explore this corner of the woods, or, And I am, I'm very acutely aware of that, and I don't want to do that.
00:23:09.958 --> 00:23:17.817
And, and every time I sit down and, and write or draw a a bunny versus monkey, my approach is how can I make this fresh?
00:23:17.817 --> 00:23:18.988
How can I start again?
00:23:18.988 --> 00:23:26.637
How can I, how can I be rebooting it in this episode and then in the next episode, how can I reboot that, the whole thing a little bit?
00:23:27.208 --> 00:23:30.984
This time, because the worst thing as a, as a reader is when something gets boring.
00:23:30.984 --> 00:23:33.355
And, and that's even worse when you are the creator.
00:23:33.355 --> 00:23:35.065
You don't wanna be making boring work.
00:23:35.522 --> 00:23:38.553
so no, I, I, I think about that a lot and I'm aware of it.
00:23:38.583 --> 00:23:46.781
And, I'm also aware that what I do, like any writer or creator sits inside this kind of bubble, this sphere of.
00:23:47.682 --> 00:23:54.582
All your ideas and, and a, a lot of the new ideas you come up with are just variations on the things you've done already.
00:23:54.981 --> 00:23:56.842
and I think you have to be aware of that.
00:23:57.021 --> 00:24:03.622
Like, I, I, I know my, my parameters, I know my corner of, of the children's comic area.
00:24:04.011 --> 00:24:05.152
You know, these are the things I do.
00:24:05.152 --> 00:24:08.152
The cute animals, the screaming at each other, the explosions.
00:24:08.152 --> 00:24:12.112
I, I know these are kind of the things I've honed in on.
00:24:12.652 --> 00:24:13.192
Um,
00:24:13.626 --> 00:24:15.606
And those are what the readers wanna see as well when they,
00:24:16.311 --> 00:24:16.942
Yeah.
00:24:17.092 --> 00:24:17.511
Yeah.
00:24:17.511 --> 00:24:18.231
And they've been really.
00:24:18.757 --> 00:24:20.196
And they've been really enjoying
00:24:20.412 --> 00:24:20.832
Mm-hmm.
00:24:21.037 --> 00:24:32.017
so you want to keep, you want to keep giving them new material, but you, and it has to be true to the material you've done already, but it also has to have some kind of spark to it.
00:24:32.021 --> 00:24:33.126
It still has to be fresh.
00:24:33.162 --> 00:24:36.086
and that is, I dunno, I dunno how that's gonna pan out.
00:24:36.086 --> 00:24:41.096
Maybe at some point I take a little break from Bunny vs Monkey just to give it a bit of space and make sure.
00:24:41.942 --> 00:24:44.731
I come back to it fresh at the moment, I feel all right at the moment.
00:24:44.731 --> 00:24:49.709
I feel like the stories are, are going in good places, but I, yeah, you, you have to be careful.
00:24:49.709 --> 00:24:53.855
And do you just go straight into drawing or do you do sort of thumbnails?
00:24:54.027 --> 00:24:58.440
Yeah, I, I have these notebooks, these small, like lined.
00:24:58.795 --> 00:25:00.444
Exercise Jotter books basically.
00:25:00.444 --> 00:25:04.403
And I very roughly thumbnail each panel, through that.
00:25:04.403 --> 00:25:06.682
And when I say roughly, it's literally like a phone doodle.
00:25:06.682 --> 00:25:08.559
It's, it's, it's terrible.
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:19.049
and that's enough for me to just then go straight onto final pencils or final inks or whatever, because I'm just, I, I'm so used to doing it that way that I don't need to.
00:25:19.769 --> 00:25:21.839
Plot things out really, really carefully.
00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:25.109
'cause often when I'm doing the final art, I can be winging it.
00:25:25.109 --> 00:25:28.109
I can be changing panels here and there if they're not quite working.
00:25:28.125 --> 00:25:36.183
I see a lot of artists who, who put so much intense work into their roughs and their sketches and, and even the pencils on the page.
00:25:36.903 --> 00:25:39.003
And, um, I dunno, that looks.
00:25:39.888 --> 00:25:41.898
That looks really professional to me.
00:25:42.798 --> 00:25:46.068
That's the only word I can think of that looks like a professional artist working.
00:25:46.068 --> 00:25:52.329
Whereas, here am I just a happy little idiot, just slamming what, what's funny to me onto a page, and then going onto the next one.
00:25:52.329 --> 00:25:59.319
And, um, yeah, I, I, I want to work as fast as I can'cause I, I want to get as many ideas out as I can.
00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:07.059
So I've, I've tried to streamline the process as much as possible and just trust myself that I can, that I can do it when it needs doing.
00:26:07.352 --> 00:26:18.037
I feel like that kind of, comes through because they feel really sort of fluid and in the moment when you are reading them, then they don't feel like, and that's enjoy, but it's kind of got that energy.
00:26:18.067 --> 00:26:21.646
You know how sometimes when some you something can feel a little bit static,
00:26:21.826 --> 00:26:22.217
can't it?
00:26:22.277 --> 00:26:23.957
Yeah, I hope so.
00:26:24.136 --> 00:26:30.916
And I, I very much think I reach to kids who have short attention spans because I have a short attention span.
00:26:30.916 --> 00:26:37.483
So I, it has to keep me engaged for two pages, drawing it, because I am.
00:26:38.173 --> 00:26:45.644
Quite, uh,'cause I am trying to be quite quick with it and like you say it, then that then comes through the page and then when you're reading it, it's a quick read.
00:26:46.003 --> 00:26:50.534
Um, and I, so I think everyone involved in this transaction is quite happy with, with how it's
00:26:50.624 --> 00:26:50.913
Yeah.
00:26:51.433 --> 00:26:51.434
Yeah.
00:26:51.548 --> 00:26:51.838
Yeah.
00:26:54.084 --> 00:26:59.604
I wanted to ask you about one of your other series, max and Chaffey,'cause you've got so many different series.
00:26:59.604 --> 00:27:03.653
And then I've put a little side note on here that I love Megalomaniacs because I do, and that was brilliant.
00:27:03.653 --> 00:27:04.510
It made me laugh so much.
00:27:04.516 --> 00:27:08.145
but Max and Chaffey, my son, my youngest son has just got really into those.
00:27:08.173 --> 00:27:09.406
and he was.
00:27:09.652 --> 00:27:11.211
Someone that struggles with reading.
00:27:11.721 --> 00:27:17.041
And it seemed to me that, it was a very different layout and you can still tell it's your work, but it feels like a different approach.
00:27:17.102 --> 00:27:23.240
Is that something that you particularly did to make your work more accessible for younger or beginner
00:27:23.414 --> 00:27:24.045
readers?
00:27:24.045 --> 00:27:25.634
Are you interested in that Yeah.
00:27:25.634 --> 00:27:27.349
I wanted to do a strip that was.
00:27:28.049 --> 00:27:29.940
Younger than Bunny versus monkey.
00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:37.380
I never know the ages of, you know, where these comics are targeted as for the publisher and the booksellers to work out for me, it's just what's funny and what works.
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:43.837
But I did have in mind that, there were still a much younger readers than were into Bunny versus Monkey.
00:27:44.288 --> 00:27:46.479
and what, what was there for them?
00:27:46.479 --> 00:27:48.278
What sort of comic books were there for them?
00:27:48.608 --> 00:27:55.180
And there were one or two around, And that's great, but I thought, well, it would be fun for me to try something like that as well.
00:27:55.554 --> 00:28:01.026
so Max and Chaffee is very, very simple comicing it is often just two panels on a page.
00:28:01.026 --> 00:28:01.056
I.
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:04.611
One, one or two speech bubbles here or there?
00:28:04.627 --> 00:28:05.798
it still has a story.
00:28:05.798 --> 00:28:07.807
It still has a whole cast of characters.
00:28:07.877 --> 00:28:10.877
But it's presented in a very, the drawings are very simple.
00:28:11.147 --> 00:28:12.461
The colors are very bright.
00:28:12.656 --> 00:28:18.747
just little things like, I didn't want to draw borders around the panels like you would normally with a comic.
00:28:18.747 --> 00:28:24.567
It's, there's, so there's no panel border in the corners are kind of rounded just to kind of soften everything up.
00:28:24.686 --> 00:28:28.797
Um, the characters in it all, all the illustrations in it.
00:28:29.321 --> 00:28:32.442
Don't have black lines, they just have colored lines around them.
00:28:32.535 --> 00:28:36.451
just to make it feel kind of very friendly and vibrant and, yeah.
00:28:36.451 --> 00:28:39.332
I I, it's been an absolute buzz to work on.
00:28:39.332 --> 00:28:44.461
I'm, I'm still making them, I think we're getting up to five or six now.
00:28:44.488 --> 00:28:50.798
and it's, it's just a joy Chaffey's, a character that I've been working on for about 20 years now in various different ways.
00:28:50.798 --> 00:29:00.548
We've done, I've done a few picture search books before and we made these little toys and sent them out, and there's a whole website about looking for them and animations and things like that.
00:29:00.577 --> 00:29:04.958
So it's kind of, it's a bigger project than just making comics.
00:29:04.958 --> 00:29:08.739
It was always meant to be kind of a, an ongoing multimedia sort of project.
00:29:08.739 --> 00:29:10.626
so it's, it's really nice to actually.
00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:20.000
For all the fun stuff I did with Chaffy, I never really sat down and told stories, like personal stories about them, about characters meeting them, and then what happens.
00:29:20.031 --> 00:29:27.571
and so, so to be able to do this, to start telling all these little adventures and stories with Chaffy, is great.
00:29:27.571 --> 00:29:31.951
I I'm loving it and, and it's really nice to see that kids are responding to it as well.
00:29:32.567 --> 00:29:51.606
Yeah, I just think it's great and it's just that, that simplicity if you are sort of just beginning reading and you've already got quite a lot of kind of cognitive stuff going on just to deal with reading, just being able to just automatically know which is the next panel and you know where you are going in, it just really helps, I think.
00:29:51.634 --> 00:29:52.265
oh, great.
00:29:52.315 --> 00:29:55.315
There are picture searches in it as well, so it's kind of interactive.
00:29:55.315 --> 00:30:00.775
The idea is you're reading along this story and you can get involved and look for certain things through the book.
00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:05.117
but they're also little sort of dotted lines kind of leading you through the adventure.
00:30:05.268 --> 00:30:07.561
And, yeah, it's, it's intended to be just a very.
00:30:08.192 --> 00:30:09.836
Kind way of telling a story.
00:30:10.237 --> 00:30:16.211
A very, a very easy, holding someone's hand and, and wandering through this sort of silly, fun story.
00:30:16.556 --> 00:30:16.846
yeah,
00:30:17.471 --> 00:30:18.131
yeah, it's great.
00:30:18.131 --> 00:30:18.221
Yeah,
00:30:18.295 --> 00:30:26.833
Yeah, lot of people, I think people think that it's kind of an innate thing to be able to understand how comics work, but it's actually not the case.
00:30:26.877 --> 00:30:28.887
It is something that we learn through exposure.
00:30:28.919 --> 00:30:39.147
and there's a really interesting, this is a total side note where there's some really interesting research around, cultures that don't have sequential images, like who to tell stories in images, but in different ways and.
00:30:39.522 --> 00:30:47.992
So, for example, when they've shown comics to, aboriginal people in Australia whose storytelling is done through all through one picture.
00:30:48.262 --> 00:30:58.425
So like the whole, all of the story is in the one picture and that they, they interpret the, the comic in the same way as in like the, the, each picture is a completely different story and tell a story from it.
00:30:58.516 --> 00:30:58.576
it.
00:30:58.576 --> 00:30:59.266
was very interesting.
00:31:00.030 --> 00:31:00.270
I just
00:31:00.346 --> 00:31:01.576
was an interesting side note.
00:31:01.681 --> 00:31:02.580
No, that's amazing.
00:31:02.623 --> 00:31:06.909
I'll actually put the link to the book that has that research in, in the show notes, people they're interested.
00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:12.260
How can teachers that might be listening to this support.
00:31:13.296 --> 00:31:16.056
children, do you think, to create comics?
00:31:16.105 --> 00:31:20.391
what can teachers do to try and support that passion if they see someone in their classroom?
00:31:20.391 --> 00:31:23.181
What would, did you have any support from teachers in your school?
00:31:23.181 --> 00:31:23.510
School?
00:31:23.570 --> 00:31:25.941
Did they enjoy looking at your, your comics as a child?
00:31:25.971 --> 00:31:26.780
Um, or is that
00:31:26.855 --> 00:31:27.935
that something that you wished you'd had?
00:31:28.806 --> 00:31:30.996
I mean, it varied like any school.
00:31:31.026 --> 00:31:33.935
Some teachers were very like, yeah, oh, this is great.
00:31:33.935 --> 00:31:34.776
Keep drawing comics.
00:31:35.135 --> 00:31:36.486
And some teachers were.
00:31:37.131 --> 00:31:40.371
Can you stop drawing comics while you're, while we're doing French?
00:31:40.893 --> 00:31:42.363
I had, I had an art teacher who.
00:31:42.645 --> 00:31:49.425
I just got like my first commission when I was 16 or something, just a, an illustrative commission.
00:31:49.486 --> 00:31:55.336
And I told him I was really excited, my art teacher, and he said, oh, comics aren't proper art.
00:31:55.546 --> 00:31:57.586
And that kind of stuck with me forever.
00:31:57.586 --> 00:31:58.905
And I was like, all right, okay.
00:31:59.236 --> 00:32:01.096
I'm gonna hate you for the rest of my life now.
00:32:01.230 --> 00:32:01.471
that's it.
00:32:01.901 --> 00:32:01.961
Yeah.
00:32:03.131 --> 00:32:11.471
Um, so, so, but those attitudes do still pervade and I'm sure any teachers listening to this podcast don't think like that.
00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:12.881
'cause otherwise they won't be listening.
00:32:13.211 --> 00:32:20.372
but you do you still get parents taking their kids into bookshops and saying, you can pick one book and they'll pick up a comic book and they go, no, no, no.
00:32:20.432 --> 00:32:21.872
Pick up a proper book.
00:32:22.291 --> 00:32:24.961
And it's just, oh, don't say proper book.
00:32:24.991 --> 00:32:25.980
They're all proper books.
00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:32.298
so I think anything I would say, most listeners probably think anyway.
00:32:32.298 --> 00:32:37.369
but I think one of the most eyeopening things was understanding that I could draw the things that I was also reading.
00:32:37.789 --> 00:32:39.920
So to take the mystique away from it.
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:46.827
So, Like when I was drawing my own cartoons and comics and copying other people's work, that was, that was a real eyeopener.
00:32:47.172 --> 00:32:52.781
in the back of Bunny verse Monkey books, as a lot of different comics do as well, there are how to draw guides.
00:32:52.872 --> 00:32:55.241
Um, most comics now kind of have them in their books.
00:32:55.318 --> 00:33:00.568
and it's, the point of that is to show, look, we are just using very simple shapes here.
00:33:00.568 --> 00:33:05.159
We're just using circles and squares, and then we're adding a face and a few limbs and, um.
00:33:05.459 --> 00:33:15.628
Often that can be such a breakthrough for a kid to go, oh, that's, I, the, the comic I was reading, I kind of assumed was just this thing, this magical thing in front of me.
00:33:15.628 --> 00:33:18.179
But now it turns out I can see the mechanics behind it.
00:33:18.179 --> 00:33:21.659
I can see how things work and I can do my own.
00:33:21.724 --> 00:33:32.555
and that's, that's an amazing, an amazing tool, an ama, an amazing gift when you suddenly realize that it's like seeing, it's like if you ever learn in a musical instrument and suddenly the songs you.
00:33:32.990 --> 00:33:36.289
Thought would somehow magically form you can go, oh, I get it.
00:33:36.289 --> 00:33:40.430
That's chords and that's notes and that, and that's, that really changes things.
00:33:40.430 --> 00:33:41.809
And it empowers you.
00:33:41.869 --> 00:33:44.509
It gives you a freedom to create things yourself.
00:33:44.869 --> 00:33:57.440
And so I think, I guess that's all I'd say is, is just understanding how, how easy it is to start making comics, and how valid, an art form and a form of expression comics are as well.
00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:57.950
It's just.
00:33:58.924 --> 00:34:05.345
If a child seems to be naturally veering towards comics, then just, I would encourage the heck out of that.
00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:07.009
Yeah, for sure.
00:34:07.223 --> 00:34:11.894
Sometimes I do a little bit of copying comic panels and just the, also the process of doing it.
00:34:11.894 --> 00:34:21.994
You learn loads like when yours doesn't quite look the same, like, not like, has to look exactly the same, but when it has a different effect and you're like, oh, how have I ended up with something that feels different that's just super interesting.
00:34:22.027 --> 00:34:24.516
Well also I, I think, I try and tell kids this a lot.
00:34:24.567 --> 00:34:31.106
when I'm drawing my characters and I've drawn Bunny vs Monkey characters hundreds of thousands of times now, I still get them wrong.
00:34:31.407 --> 00:34:32.456
I still mess them up.
00:34:32.456 --> 00:34:33.806
Sometimes I have to rub them out.
00:34:33.806 --> 00:34:35.427
Some characters are easier than others.
00:34:35.472 --> 00:34:41.322
so I ask kids when they come to signings, have you tried drawing any of the characters and, and did you find it easy or did you find it hard?
00:34:41.322 --> 00:34:45.041
And I, if they say they found it hard, then I try and reassure them, look it.
00:34:45.342 --> 00:34:49.331
Sometimes it will always be hard to do even when you're really, really used to it.
00:34:49.751 --> 00:34:51.159
And that's just the nature of it.
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:54.869
but more times than not, you will, you will come up with something you love.
00:34:57.416 --> 00:35:06.677
I've just seen the book Awards and Bunny versus Monkey's in like a million different categories, but one of the things that was in as well is in the audio book category.
00:35:06.677 --> 00:35:09.192
how did the audio book for Bunny versus Monkey come about?
00:35:09.192 --> 00:35:10.391
Were you involved in that at all?
00:35:10.422 --> 00:35:14.106
'cause people were really surprised about there being an audio version of a comic.
00:35:14.106 --> 00:35:14.170
yeah.
00:35:14.170 --> 00:35:14.929
How'd that come about?
00:35:14.976 --> 00:35:19.713
well as to how involved I was, I replied to a few emails that that was about it.
00:35:20.237 --> 00:35:22.692
I dunno whether that takes some of the magic out of it, but No.
00:35:22.751 --> 00:35:32.367
It was this company called Belinda who, who make, audio books, um, and they, they took the reins on it and they had, this narrat Kieran who does all the voices, and they just nailed it.
00:35:32.396 --> 00:35:33.567
They absolutely nailed it.
00:35:33.657 --> 00:35:35.847
Far better than I could ever have imagined.
00:35:35.896 --> 00:35:38.847
So they've done, I think they've done the first three books now.
00:35:38.875 --> 00:35:41.034
and I think they're, they're working on the next ones.
00:35:41.135 --> 00:35:47.525
I agree that I didn't understand how you would make a comic into an audio, but there have been comic audio books before there.
00:35:47.554 --> 00:35:51.425
I think there was an investigators one and I think, I think they've done a few here and there.
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:55.288
but it's, it's far more than a, a normal audiobook.
00:35:55.347 --> 00:35:56.398
'cause a normal audiobook.
00:35:56.427 --> 00:35:56.577
You are.
00:35:57.478 --> 00:35:59.157
Reading out what's in front of you.
00:35:59.637 --> 00:36:03.297
But when you are reading out a comic, you need to insert other things.
00:36:03.297 --> 00:36:06.117
You need little narration, you need sound effects.
00:36:06.117 --> 00:36:09.568
The bunny verse monkey audio books have a lot of sound effects going on.
00:36:09.898 --> 00:36:15.538
'cause the sound effects tell parts of the story if, if you can't see anything, if there's nothing visual to work from.
00:36:15.677 --> 00:36:20.925
so for me it was an amazing achievement to, To see what they've done with it and, and to see what they come up with.
00:36:21.021 --> 00:36:30.315
I, I just, it blows my mind and it's a joy for me also to listen to them because I'm listening to them when they're released at the same time that everyone else is.
00:36:30.315 --> 00:36:36.106
And, and so I get to, I get to hear all the jokes told in ways that I couldn't even imagine.
00:36:36.106 --> 00:36:36.416
It's,
00:36:36.443 --> 00:36:42.336
Because there's a lot of sound effects in the comic strips and there's quite, you know, like bombastic things happening.
00:36:42.606 --> 00:36:49.657
I feel like Bunny vs Monkey lends itself well to audio because you can kind of, because the things that people are doing are very noisy.
00:36:49.987 --> 00:36:50.347
Yeah.
00:36:50.916 --> 00:36:51.186
Yeah.
00:36:51.186 --> 00:36:53.166
It must have cost them a lot of money on sound effects.
00:36:53.166 --> 00:36:56.197
I dunno how these things work, but it's, uh, yeah.
00:36:56.197 --> 00:37:00.411
There's a lot of farting and explosions and, and screeching and Yeah,
00:37:00.561 --> 00:37:01.371
Exactly.
00:37:01.402 --> 00:37:01.891
amazing.
00:37:01.992 --> 00:37:07.778
I have to say, I think, oh, is monkey Scottish someone Scottish and No, that was controversial in my house.
00:37:08.025 --> 00:37:14.266
Yeah, it takes some get used to Monkey has in the audiobooks monkey has this kind of Rick Mayish kind of spitting
00:37:14.367 --> 00:37:18.211
maybe it was that, yeah, there was, there was one voice that was very controversial to
00:37:18.257 --> 00:37:18.347
to,
00:37:19.172 --> 00:37:19.367
children.
00:37:19.367 --> 00:37:25.869
but, but the thing is what every I, and I agree, there were a couple that I had to get a little used to, but when I got used to them, they worked, but.
00:37:26.110 --> 00:37:27.969
used to hearing it in your own head aren't Yeah.
00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:32.739
What, whatever voice they put to them, some of them won't be like you imagined they were.
00:37:32.829 --> 00:37:33.579
exactly.
00:37:33.610 --> 00:37:34.000
Yeah.
00:37:34.059 --> 00:37:35.320
Yeah, a hundred percent.
00:37:37.867 --> 00:37:52.726
the laSt thing that I really wanted to talk to you about it's just how your kind of role has changed because over, it seems like there's been, obviously bunny versus monkey's been around for quite a long time, but then also there's been an incredible sort of surge in popularity over the last few years.
00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:55.541
How has that been as an experience for you, first of all?
00:37:55.632 --> 00:37:58.331
And then have you found that your role has changed?
00:37:58.331 --> 00:38:02.974
Being a bit more of a spokesperson for comics more generally, with that popularity,
00:38:03.619 --> 00:38:08.284
Yeah, it's been, it's been an absolute joy to see this resurgence.
00:38:08.344 --> 00:38:14.673
I, I think over the last three or four years, it's really kind of taken off and publishers are now putting out a lot of comic books.
00:38:14.764 --> 00:38:17.434
Um, and it's something that I.
00:38:18.304 --> 00:38:23.824
Those of us in comics, whether comic artists or, or the few publishers who, who've really stuck with comics.
00:38:23.824 --> 00:38:27.139
We've always known and we've believed that, children love comics.
00:38:27.139 --> 00:38:28.969
They just, they have to see them.
00:38:29.389 --> 00:38:37.579
And, and from the, I bang on about this a lot, but through the nineties and the early two thousands kind of, publishers just forgot about comics.
00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:43.246
They this amazing heritage we had in this country of, Weekly comics and comic books.
00:38:43.246 --> 00:38:47.130
they abandoned'cause it was just getting too expensive, I guess, to commission new material.
00:38:47.130 --> 00:38:53.032
so comics turned into sort of magazines instead where they were just using assets and photos and, and stuff.
00:38:53.083 --> 00:39:02.682
so original comic content wasn't really being commissioned, um, apart from the Beano and the Dandy, um, and then when the Phoenix came through as well, and then one or two other titles.
00:39:02.682 --> 00:39:06.163
But it's been, it's been such a, a slow climb through those decades.
00:39:06.543 --> 00:39:16.271
And it's, it's required the absolute dedication of those publishers to stick with it and to know that comics are a really vital, way of telling stories.
00:39:16.282 --> 00:39:17.572
so to see that now.
00:39:18.043 --> 00:39:23.829
Suddenly exploding and, and all publishers going, Hey, we, we need to be putting comics out too.
00:39:23.833 --> 00:39:39.306
it is amazing and, and part of the reason it's amazing is because all these comic artists are now getting chances to tell their stories, and these comic artists, most of'em have been around for the last few decades in, you know, the wilderness years where there haven't been many outlets to, to be telling stories.
00:39:39.306 --> 00:39:42.543
Now suddenly publishers want to hear them and they want to commission them.
00:39:42.570 --> 00:39:52.434
and so just on a personal note, you know, a lot of them are friends, so it's, it's really nice to see that they're finally getting to, to, to tell their stories and, and they're.
00:39:53.018 --> 00:39:53.378
Great.
00:39:53.378 --> 00:39:59.648
They're amazing artists and they, they draw amazing comics and, and they deserve, you know, all the royalties in the world.
00:40:00.219 --> 00:40:05.048
So yeah, the, the, the whole wave that's going on at the moment is, is wonderful.
00:40:05.048 --> 00:40:07.719
I think it should only be the start.
00:40:07.748 --> 00:40:10.599
I think it could get far bigger than this.
00:40:10.929 --> 00:40:16.898
I think comics should really be, be respected again in British culture a lot more than they have been recently.
00:40:16.951 --> 00:40:17.373
yeah.
00:40:17.492 --> 00:40:19.083
Part of the mission of this podcast is to
00:40:19.132 --> 00:40:19.583
well, yeah,
00:40:19.833 --> 00:40:21.208
that, promote that.
00:40:21.342 --> 00:40:28.039
and the more, the more kids we can reach with them and the more kids we can say, Hey, this is, you know, this is a way to express yourself as well.
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:31.668
This is, this is a, a home for you if you want it in, in comics.
00:40:31.668 --> 00:40:36.998
yeah, I, I, it's just, it's wonderful and this is, this is how it should all always have been going.
00:40:37.418 --> 00:40:38.168
Uh, as for my.
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:39.318
Role?
00:40:39.528 --> 00:40:39.978
Yes.
00:40:39.978 --> 00:40:42.199
I don't, it doesn't sit easy with me, if I'm honest.
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:44.478
I don't feel like a spokesman for comics at all.
00:40:44.478 --> 00:40:48.469
I, I don't know enough about anything to talk about.
00:40:48.469 --> 00:40:57.318
Anything I can, I can tell you what I feel passionate about, but, um, like I couldn't, I couldn't give you facts and figures about comic industry or anything like that.
00:40:57.407 --> 00:40:58.456
I can just.
00:40:59.132 --> 00:41:05.041
Tell you what matters to me, and it matters to me that comics get recognized and that, and that kids enjoy reading.
00:41:05.065 --> 00:41:07.615
so when people ask me for, you know, quotes about.
00:41:08.740 --> 00:41:10.481
What do you think of the state of the comic industry?
00:41:10.481 --> 00:41:29.074
I think like, there was a piece in the Observer yesterday where they asked me for a few quotes and I, I said, you know, this and this and this, but I, I feel like there are probably people better than me who can, who can whack wax more lyrical than I can, or, or can, you know, say, well, reading is up 40% of comics or, but I can't even remember the stats.
00:41:29.114 --> 00:41:29.833
yeah, there are.
00:41:30.523 --> 00:41:39.434
You know, people like the comics, Lauret and, and Hannah Berry and, you know, all these people who, who know the intrinsic value of comics a lot more than I do.
00:41:39.467 --> 00:41:45.858
essentially I just want to sit at home and draw silly animals and and that's, for the most part, that's what I get to do.
00:41:45.887 --> 00:41:49.717
But, sometimes other stuff comes into it and I, and I need to put my grownup pants on.
00:41:50.601 --> 00:41:55.311
It must be, yeah, a strange kind of fish and pull between, between those things all the time.
00:41:56.001 --> 00:41:56.902
And what's next?
00:41:56.902 --> 00:41:58.967
Have you, you've already said that there's like.
00:41:59.601 --> 00:42:02.181
Three more bunny versus monkey books already done.
00:42:02.351 --> 00:42:02.927
mind blown.
00:42:02.949 --> 00:42:06.817
I got the latest one, I think it was at David Fickling's anniversary.
00:42:06.907 --> 00:42:08.856
And it was a few weeks before it came out.
00:42:08.856 --> 00:42:10.806
And, My son's minds were blown.
00:42:10.865 --> 00:42:11.795
I got serious mum.
00:42:11.795 --> 00:42:12.545
Kudos for that.
00:42:12.815 --> 00:42:16.387
They were like, we've got an illegal book, parading it around the playground.
00:42:16.431 --> 00:42:18.320
but they were very excited to have an illegal
00:42:19.780 --> 00:42:20.451
contraband.
00:42:21.596 --> 00:42:22.085
exactly.
00:42:22.728 --> 00:42:22.998
but yeah.
00:42:22.998 --> 00:42:25.188
What, what is coming up next for you?
00:42:25.498 --> 00:42:26.353
what is coming up?
00:42:26.353 --> 00:42:32.722
Uh, at the moment I'm very knee, knee deep in my Series Flember so I did a series of illustrated called Flember, and.
00:42:33.056 --> 00:42:39.536
We, I did four books of it and the fifth and final book, I was supposed to do about a year ago.
00:42:39.746 --> 00:42:42.027
It's taken me two or three years to get it done.
00:42:42.086 --> 00:42:47.067
Just partly to find the time, but partly to do it properly and, and tell the story I was happy with.
00:42:47.067 --> 00:42:49.976
But it's, it's finally written and signed off.
00:42:49.976 --> 00:42:53.396
It's just the next couple of months I need to do all the illustrations for it.
00:42:53.516 --> 00:42:55.431
Um, so that's coming out at the end of this year.
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:07.010
and when that's done, that'll be like 10 years of my life well, a project that's taken 10 years of my life kind of finished and, and I, I feel like I'm gonna have more time after that, hopefully, that I'm gonna have a bit more freedom.
00:43:07.014 --> 00:43:11.878
but I'm really, really proud of what it is and I, I'm really chuffed with it all.
00:43:11.878 --> 00:43:18.744
but yeah, as, as a sort of day-to-day thing, Bunny Verse Monkey, kind of, I do a strip a week still in the Phoenix.
00:43:19.074 --> 00:43:29.347
I'm doing a new comic strip in the Phoenix, which starts in a couple of months, which I don't know, I don't think I'm allowed to say the name of it yet, but, um, and then that ties into something else, which again, I'm not allowed to talk about.
00:43:29.347 --> 00:43:30.307
It's really frustrating.
00:43:30.307 --> 00:43:39.346
I have a couple of things coming up that are that really big things for me, but I'm, they haven't been properly announced yet, so I should probably keep schtum, ax and Chaffee books.
00:43:39.505 --> 00:43:41.996
I want to get back to drawing more Looshkin as well.
00:43:42.003 --> 00:43:44.853
I have a TV show finally on Nickelodeon this
00:43:45.103 --> 00:43:46.452
I was gonna ask about tv
00:43:46.503 --> 00:43:46.722
oh.
00:43:46.722 --> 00:43:49.108
But I've been trying for like 20 years.
00:43:49.108 --> 00:43:57.117
I really, even before I was particularly known in comics, I was working in TV and I was trying to get all these different ideas off the ground.
00:43:57.117 --> 00:44:03.762
And it has been, working in TV is one of the most difficult and thankless places to come up with original ideas.
00:44:03.762 --> 00:44:05.922
It's, I, I just, I haven't enjoyed it.
00:44:06.802 --> 00:44:07.942
Well, no, no, that's not fair.
00:44:07.942 --> 00:44:08.181
Actually.
00:44:08.181 --> 00:44:20.362
I have enjoyed it, but, but I discovered that I, I belong in comics and that I should be making comics, and as soon as I did that, as soon as I realized, oh, I should be spending all my time on comics instead, then I.
00:44:21.052 --> 00:44:30.206
TV started coming to me a bit more because it would say, oh, you've made this comic and let's try and make it a TV show, rather than me going to TV with original ideas and then watching them get torn apart.
00:44:30.206 --> 00:44:32.052
so it's worked a lot better for me that way.
00:44:32.065 --> 00:44:36.873
but yeah, so I have a show called Super Duper Bunny League on Nick Collodion Jr.
00:44:36.963 --> 00:44:37.532
I think.
00:44:37.592 --> 00:44:39.907
I think it starts over here, not till the autumn.
00:44:39.929 --> 00:44:44.469
so that's, that's for me on a, on a personal note, that's very.
00:44:45.188 --> 00:44:49.809
That's a bucket list thing that's like, oh, finally, after 20 years, you know, something finally took off.
00:44:49.994 --> 00:44:51.873
I think Bunny versus monkey film would be cool.
00:44:52.503 --> 00:44:53.228
Oh, it would be amazing.
00:44:53.298 --> 00:44:53.588
Yeah.
00:44:53.889 --> 00:44:55.778
Just start getting that sorted out.
00:44:56.858 --> 00:45:04.958
I mean, a lot of these things are kind of rumbling on in, along through option and developments of in the background, but, but there's never enough to really talk about.
00:45:05.458 --> 00:45:09.659
but yeah, bunny Vest Monkey to me seems like a, a no brainer that it, that it would
00:45:09.713 --> 00:45:10.003
Yeah.
00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:10.889
well as an
00:45:11.068 --> 00:45:12.449
Well, dog Man's got a film now.
00:45:12.568 --> 00:45:17.324
I actually saw on the front cut front of the, the bunny burst of Monkey where it says like, perfect for fans of Dog Man.
00:45:17.353 --> 00:45:19.304
And I was, that also made me think like.
00:45:20.653 --> 00:45:22.753
and that's the first Bunny versus bunny book like that.
00:45:23.264 --> 00:45:34.545
There's, so that was all, there was a point where, you know, not all there was, but that was like the predominant title Dog Man for Children who wanted to like, have a book that was, that had comics in it.
00:45:34.565 --> 00:45:37.025
and now, now there's so much variety.
00:45:37.025 --> 00:45:37.625
It's just,
00:45:37.885 --> 00:45:45.650
no Dog man was, a real breakthrough and it showed the format you can, you could give kids comics in kind of this chunky, small book.
00:45:46.032 --> 00:45:52.871
and it, and it also showed a lot of publishers, you know, kids do love comics, uh, predominantly in America.
00:45:52.871 --> 00:45:56.231
But then as it started coming over here as well, I think everyone started noticing.
00:45:56.561 --> 00:45:59.291
So yeah, dog Man opened the doors for, for a lot of us, I think.
00:45:59.621 --> 00:46:00.072
Definitely.
00:46:00.251 --> 00:46:00.311
Yeah,
00:46:00.481 --> 00:46:00.632
And
00:46:00.661 --> 00:46:01.302
I feel I
00:46:01.382 --> 00:46:01.681
film.
00:46:01.802 --> 00:46:02.311
I thought it was good.
00:46:02.512 --> 00:46:03.202
I've heard it's good.
00:46:03.202 --> 00:46:03.922
I haven't seen it yet,
00:46:04.021 --> 00:46:04.411
That's good.
00:46:04.411 --> 00:46:12.190
They do some cool things where there's like, where like the words, the sound of effect words like, come on the, Screen, but then the characters kind of like interact with'em and like push them away and stuff.
00:46:12.190 --> 00:46:12.610
It's cool.
00:46:12.615 --> 00:46:13.045
I liked that.
00:46:13.751 --> 00:46:14.621
I, I enjoyed that.
00:46:15.293 --> 00:46:15.923
that part of it.
00:46:16.193 --> 00:46:16.764
It was cool.
00:46:18.981 --> 00:46:20.541
We're coming to the end of the, the podcast.
00:46:20.541 --> 00:46:22.192
Thank you so much for joining us.
00:46:22.195 --> 00:46:28.148
What can teachers do to harness this buzz that there is around the form at the moment in the classroom, do you think?
00:46:28.275 --> 00:46:29.115
lot of the.
00:46:29.505 --> 00:46:34.396
Schools I have spoken to, their libraries are weirdly short of comics.
00:46:34.456 --> 00:46:36.045
They don't have many comics in it.
00:46:36.045 --> 00:46:40.681
And I understand funding for libraries, especially school libraries, it's difficult.
00:46:40.681 --> 00:46:45.085
but yeah, comics in, in like, it's just that, it's that point of accessibility.
00:46:45.085 --> 00:46:48.144
It's, it's kids knowing that comics exist in the first place.
00:46:48.175 --> 00:46:50.155
That's always been the struggle.
00:46:50.188 --> 00:46:52.858
getting them to read comics has never been that difficult.
00:46:52.858 --> 00:46:54.807
It's just, it's just showing them to them.
00:46:54.943 --> 00:46:57.992
So anything we can do to get them in the libraries.
00:46:58.045 --> 00:47:02.965
I always think things like worksheets and even just coloring in sheets and things are amazing.
00:47:03.065 --> 00:47:06.664
But I'm as guilty as anyone of not putting many of them online.
00:47:06.695 --> 00:47:07.445
You know, I, I think.
00:47:08.625 --> 00:47:16.552
It would really help artists and publishers to have printable material that, that libraries could be, you know, showing kids, allowing them to interact with.
00:47:16.552 --> 00:47:18.293
But again, I need to do that.
00:47:18.293 --> 00:47:20.722
So that's another thing on my list.
00:47:21.181 --> 00:47:28.494
and I dunno, just, just an understanding of how valuable comics are, but, but I think we all know that now.
00:47:28.494 --> 00:47:35.478
I think, I think as a society we're starting to really pick up on that and, I would just, I would love as many kids reading comics as possible.
00:47:36.137 --> 00:47:36.978
Yeah, me too.
00:47:37.668 --> 00:47:38.657
We should continue on.
00:47:38.688 --> 00:47:43.777
You are, you're slightly more productive in the mission than I'm by actually making loads of, bestselling comics.
00:47:43.777 --> 00:47:45.528
But I'll cheer you on from the sidelines.
00:47:45.528 --> 00:47:45.949
And that was,
00:47:46.489 --> 00:47:47.389
No, I appreciate it.
00:47:47.425 --> 00:47:50.873
so the final question is, if we were to add, now a lot of people struggle with this.
00:47:50.873 --> 00:48:00.373
If we were to add one comic or book about comics, to our to be read tomorrow, what would you recommend we read Something that you've seen that you like?
00:48:01.094 --> 00:48:03.128
That you think add that to your list.
00:48:03.146 --> 00:48:06.320
oh, uh, Oh, I know.
00:48:06.590 --> 00:48:08.472
So, I wonder what people normally say.
00:48:08.472 --> 00:48:10.572
Do they normally say books about how to make comics?
00:48:10.572 --> 00:48:13.271
Or do they say books that are comics?
00:48:13.706 --> 00:48:18.806
Mostly comics that they've read, but some books about comics, but mostly
00:48:18.956 --> 00:48:20.184
and Hobbs comes up quite a lot,
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.610
Calvin and Hobbs doesn't, isn't often recommended at the end.
00:48:22.610 --> 00:48:26.719
A lot of people talk about Calvin Hobbs when they're talking about their kind of like early reading,
00:48:26.869 --> 00:48:27.139
Yeah.
00:48:27.139 --> 00:48:27.304
Getting
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:31.190
comics, but it's, I don't know if, it's, I don't think it's been one that's recommended at the end.
00:48:31.250 --> 00:48:31.610
okay.
00:48:31.610 --> 00:48:34.760
So I'm not gonna say Karen and Hobbs, even though I adore Karen and Hobbs.
00:48:34.909 --> 00:48:38.090
I'm gonna, I'm looking at my bookshelf and I'm gonna say.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:40.190
The pre-history of the far side.
00:48:41.059 --> 00:48:47.989
Uh, so the far side for anyone who doesn't know was a single panel comic strip in, in newspapers.
00:48:47.989 --> 00:48:49.909
It was huge in like the eighties and nineties.
00:48:50.389 --> 00:48:52.820
Um, just a single panel, just a very basic gag.
00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:53.840
So it wasn't sequential.
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.219
It wasn't one panel after the other.
00:48:55.670 --> 00:49:01.880
Um, and they were just very easy jokes and you'd, most people would probably recognize'em if they saw them.
00:49:02.262 --> 00:49:05.847
Like I say, the far side was massive and there are an awful lot of imitators of it.
00:49:06.387 --> 00:49:29.692
But this one book, the Prehistory of the Far Side is about, the artist Gary Larson talking through his process and he, he posts up, you know, for example, he will post up the finish, panel, but he'll also post up the sketch or he'll post up, How panels got their jokes mixed up when they were printed or it's just a lot of behind the scenes stuff of how it all works.
00:49:29.692 --> 00:49:33.172
And that for me as a kid, um, I.
00:49:34.356 --> 00:49:36.697
Really, really, really, really changed things.
00:49:36.697 --> 00:49:42.697
And I was talking to someone about it the other day, I can't remember who, but they weren't a comic artist, but they too said that was an amazing book.
00:49:42.726 --> 00:49:47.166
'cause you suddenly realized the workings of a, of a comic.
00:49:47.166 --> 00:49:49.896
The workings of being funny, of justification, yeah.
00:49:49.896 --> 00:49:57.217
Of drawing a cartoon to have to have a grownup sit down with you and, and say, look, this is what went wrong here.
00:49:57.217 --> 00:49:58.416
This is what I was thinking here.
00:49:58.416 --> 00:49:59.552
This, it really.
00:50:00.032 --> 00:50:03.182
Opens your eyes to, to how all this stuff works.
00:50:03.182 --> 00:50:03.693
So, yeah.
00:50:03.693 --> 00:50:06.902
Even though it's, I dunno, it's, it's single panel comics.
00:50:06.992 --> 00:50:08.043
They're comics aren't they?
00:50:08.253 --> 00:50:09.123
I never quite know.
00:50:09.336 --> 00:50:10.572
Like gag cartoons.
00:50:11.112 --> 00:50:13.722
cartoon is what I was gonna say, but yeah, I think they're part
00:50:13.753 --> 00:50:13.753
Yeah.
00:50:13.759 --> 00:50:14.487
Part of comics, aren't they?
00:50:14.802 --> 00:50:16.152
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, um,
00:50:16.273 --> 00:50:17.413
I think we can say
00:50:17.713 --> 00:50:18.492
of this answer.
00:50:18.498 --> 00:50:18.608
Yeah,
00:50:18.913 --> 00:50:19.063
Yeah,
00:50:19.213 --> 00:50:20.682
the pre-history of the far side.
00:50:21.012 --> 00:50:22.422
we'll ban you from saying it on
00:50:22.483 --> 00:50:22.753
Thank you.
00:50:23.682 --> 00:50:24.793
basis there's only one
00:50:24.943 --> 00:50:25.302
it counts.
00:50:25.333 --> 00:50:28.722
I think if you saw it, you would go, oh no, that does fit in
00:50:29.023 --> 00:50:29.472
Yeah.
00:50:29.682 --> 00:50:30.822
Yeah, Yeah.
00:50:31.273 --> 00:50:32.262
That's really interesting.
00:50:32.262 --> 00:50:33.193
I've not heard of that one.
00:50:33.242 --> 00:50:36.213
And I love all that kind of nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff, so yeah.
00:50:36.242 --> 00:50:36.902
That sounds great.
00:50:36.902 --> 00:50:42.123
Thank you for that recommendation, and thank you for joining me today and sharing all of your knowledge.
00:50:42.123 --> 00:50:43.742
It's, yeah, it's been great to have you on.
00:50:44.373 --> 00:50:45.483
No, thank you for inviting me.
00:50:45.483 --> 00:50:46.833
It's been a absolute honor.
00:50:47.237 --> 00:50:47.898
It's always lovely.
00:50:48.378 --> 00:50:56.777
I, like I said, the responsibility of being spokesperson for comics doesn't sit with me, but I am always very, very happy to wang on about comics for an hour.
00:50:56.972 --> 00:50:58.268
Talk about the thing that you love.
00:51:00.177 --> 00:51:03.333
Well, thank you for wanging on, on going, boom.
00:51:03.498 --> 00:51:04.297
Thank you very me.
00:51:06.385 --> 00:51:06.956
There you have it.
00:51:06.956 --> 00:51:08.036
A great chat with Jamie.
00:51:08.036 --> 00:51:12.416
I'm so grateful to him for giving, giving us time, and I think there was loads of really interesting insights.
00:51:12.596 --> 00:51:19.028
I think you get a real glimpse of the man behind the comic strips and he's got such a calm and genuine energy.
00:51:19.059 --> 00:51:22.523
I really loved talking to him, and a great recommendation there as well.
00:51:22.552 --> 00:51:30.059
My recommendation this week is going to be something that I've recently read, Anzu, in the realm of Darkness by Mai K.
00:51:30.088 --> 00:51:32.257
Nguyen I hope I've pronounced that right.
00:51:32.347 --> 00:51:33.577
I'm really sorry if I haven't.
00:51:33.628 --> 00:51:35.907
an absolutely stunning, beautiful book.
00:51:35.907 --> 00:51:40.887
The colors, the use of the comic form, the characters, the artwork.
00:51:40.947 --> 00:51:44.721
I also, I love, reading about Japanese mythology.
00:51:44.721 --> 00:51:52.630
And this is all set within that Japanese mythological underworld, a coming of age a reckoning with your identity.
00:51:52.820 --> 00:51:54.815
A story about a young girl who falls.
00:51:55.465 --> 00:51:56.485
Into the underworld.
00:51:56.485 --> 00:52:05.614
Also, themes of intergenerational relationships, connecting with our heritage, whilst also sort of moving forward and being ourselves.
00:52:05.664 --> 00:52:07.195
It's a really, really beautiful book.
00:52:07.224 --> 00:52:08.275
Absolutely stunning.
00:52:08.605 --> 00:52:10.344
I very much enjoyed it.
00:52:10.344 --> 00:52:12.295
So that's my recommendation for this week.
00:52:12.697 --> 00:52:15.367
Thanks to a LCS for sponsoring today's episode.
00:52:15.606 --> 00:52:26.797
As you know, we often have writers on comic boom speaking about their work, and A LCS is a not-for-profit organization supporting its 120,000 plus members to collect money for all of the secondary uses of their work.
00:52:27.007 --> 00:52:28.297
Things like photocopies.
00:52:28.322 --> 00:52:31.141
Digital reproductions and use in education as well.
00:52:31.532 --> 00:52:38.342
And they also provide some fantastic resources to support educators to explore topics like copyright and plagiarism in the classroom.
00:52:38.672 --> 00:52:46.349
I noticed on their website that they've got, a really up to date, selection of resources on AI, poetry and copyright, which is really interesting.
00:52:46.588 --> 00:52:48.449
So that was around the National Poetry Day.
00:52:48.449 --> 00:52:50.518
So they teamed up with National Poetry Day to bring you.
00:52:50.543 --> 00:52:54.923
Two videos and some accompanying resources about AI and poetry.
00:52:55.103 --> 00:53:04.036
Really starting to tackle those important conversations around the role that humans play in creating art and poetry and why that's important, in the age of ai.
00:53:04.067 --> 00:53:05.746
So really interesting stuff there.
00:53:06.077 --> 00:53:09.806
And that's for ages nine to 14 So a really good span.
00:53:09.996 --> 00:53:11.617
And different things you can dip in and out of.
00:53:11.766 --> 00:53:12.487
Check that out.
00:53:12.487 --> 00:53:14.646
The link to their website will be in the show notes.
00:53:14.713 --> 00:53:16.032
What a brilliant 50th episode.
00:53:16.032 --> 00:53:24.945
In fact, I have a bit of a confession to make because I realized after, carefully planning Jamie's episode to be the 50th episode of Comic Boom, that this is actually the 49th.
00:53:25.244 --> 00:53:26.565
But we're just gonna ignore that.
00:53:26.565 --> 00:53:27.315
We're gonna keep calm.
00:53:27.315 --> 00:53:30.434
We're gonna carry on hashtag not the 50th episode.
00:53:31.050 --> 00:53:33.690
But it's the 50th episode in spirit.
00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:36.510
And next week we also have a brilliant episode as well.
00:53:36.510 --> 00:53:38.909
So there's, there's, there's no concerns there.
00:53:38.914 --> 00:53:40.985
but thank you so much for tuning in and listening you.
00:53:41.045 --> 00:53:43.835
As always, please share, share, share with your networks.
00:53:43.985 --> 00:53:51.699
We are now set up on Blue Sky, so you can find the podcast on Instagram, on Blue Sky and on x, and on LinkedIn if you wanna find me.
00:53:51.699 --> 00:53:52.690
I also share the episode.
00:53:52.690 --> 00:53:54.114
So on LinkedIn there as well.
00:53:54.235 --> 00:53:56.034
So have a lookout for those.
00:53:56.034 --> 00:53:58.074
You can share them to your networks easily.
00:53:58.264 --> 00:53:59.375
Get that link going.
00:53:59.376 --> 00:54:04.614
and we'll spread the word about the importance of comics and its uses in education between us.
00:54:04.684 --> 00:54:10.958
love being part of this community of educators, librarians, academics, creators, all passionate about the same thing, which is the power of the form.
00:54:11.108 --> 00:54:11.829
So thank you.
00:54:11.829 --> 00:54:12.579
It is been great.
00:54:12.579 --> 00:54:15.009
I've loved making these last 50 episodes at 49.
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:18.400
and, very much looking forward to bringing you next week's episode two.
00:54:19.181 --> 00:54:22.981
You've been listening to Comic Boom, which is produced and hosted by me, Lucy Starbuck Braidley.
00:54:23.170 --> 00:54:23.951
Thanks for listening.