Emile Elias: Welcome to Come Rain or Shine, podcast of the USDA Southwest Climate Hub
Sarah LeRoy: and the DOI Southwest Climate Adaptation Science Center, or Southwest CASC, operated by the USGS. I'm Sarah LeRoy, Research Coordinator for the Southwest CASC.
Emile Elias: And I'm Emile Elias, Director of the Southwest Climate Hub. Here we highlight stories to share the most recent advances in climate science, weather, and climate adaptation and innovative practices to support resilient landscapes and communities.
Sarah LeRoy: We believe that sharing some of the most innovative, forward thinking, and creative climate science and adaptation will strengthen our collective ability to respond to even the most challenging impacts of climate change in one of the hottest and driest regions of the world.
The contents of this podcast are for informational purposes only and should not be interpreted as endorsement for any of the products, technologies, or strategies discussed.
Emile Elias: Bees and other pollinators play a critical role in the production of food and in supporting ecological diversity. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, three fourths of the world's flowering plants and about 35 percent of the world's food crops depend on pollinators to reproduce. USDA estimates that there are more than 3, 500 species of bees native to the United States that contribute to crop pollination. These native bees, along with non native honeybees, play a critical role in pollinating approximately 75 percent of the fruits, nuts, and vegetables grown nationwide.
For our next few episodes, we will be discussing the importance of pollinators, how climate change is affecting them, and the role of beekeeping in revitalizing that biodiversity. Today we're talking with Melanie Kirby, a land grant extension educator with the Institute of American Indian Arts or IAIA, and Davon Collins, a recent graduate of Howard University and a research assistant and documentarian with the Institute.
So, Melanie, Davon, thank you for being with us today. And Melanie, I want to give you a chance to introduce yourself and tell us a bit about how you began beekeeping.
Melanie Kirby: Hi. Well, thank you so much, Emile. It's really great to be able to join you all today. My name is Melanie Kirby. I'm actually a Native, born and bred New Mexican.
I'm a part of what's called Tortugas Pueblo, which is a state recognized tribal community located in southern New Mexico. I'm of mixed heritage as well. My father's from the Caribbean, similar to Davon. Davon will talk about their background. But I grew up here in New Mexico, and my cultural affiliation, I want to say, is very much rooted in my experience as a Native New Mexican.
My mother, actually, who's also from Las Cruces, New Mexico, did the Peace Corps back when it first began in the late 60s, and she was stationed actually in the French Grenadines at St. Vincent, which is where she met my father. And I grew up knowing that that's how they met, and so I had this lifelong sort of commitment already decided at an early age that I wanted to do Peace Corps as well.
And so I ended up graduating from St. John's College here in northern New Mexico in Santa Fe with an advanced liberal arts degree, nothing that really helps you pay the bills, but it was fantastic education nonetheless. It really taught me how to learn, how to be a self directed learner as well.
And so I knew that I wanted to do Peace Corps afterwards and I enlisted as a Peace Corps volunteer, and so the next two years I ended up spending in Paraguay in South America as a beekeeping extensionist volunteer, and I had no sort of experience prior to that. So it was really very much a very interesting experience, not only getting to learn about bees and beekeeping, but also working with Indigenous farmers in other countries and how their food systems are very much connected to their cultural life ways and also to the infrastructure that's available at the time.
And so I kind of took my undergraduate degree experience, this sort of academic kind of upbringing. And then on the other hand, I had, you know, this experience of working with land stewards who, you know, for all intents and purposes, really only had about a fourth grade education, but they were so knowledgeable and so intelligent about how they practice their stewardship.
And I really recognized that I needed to learn more from the land and from people who work with the land. And so I decided that I would put off grad school for a few years to work with farmers. And little did I know that those few years would actually turn into 20 before I decided to go back to school, but I spent those 20 years fully immersed in professional beekeeping, you know, starting from that experience as a Peace Corps volunteer and then going to work for several other commercial operations here stateside.
In fact, the first. I want to say probably eight years of my beekeeping experience was all in tropical places. It was, you know, South America and then in Hawaii and then in Florida. And then I decided I would try and keep bees in my home state of New Mexico. And so that was 20 years ago when I started my small farm here.
So yeah, all in all it's been 28 years of beekeeping for me and I'm still a student for life of this craft.
Emile Elias: Excellent, thank you so much and I'm so curious about how beekeeping in humid tropical areas is different from beekeeping in New Mexico. So hopefully we'll get into that as we go along and I'm also curious about how the beekeeping program at the Institute began.
Melanie Kirby: Yeah, so, once I had finished my grad studies at Washington State University, I knew that I really wanted to help support stewards, and that really is rooted in my experience as a Peace Corps volunteer. So, working with folks who have such innate knowledge of the spaces in which they live and that they're stewarding, and I recognized that more advocacy was needed.
Academics can be very enlightening and can really help to elucidate many different aspects of how and why we do things, but in terms of where that's rooted, comes from more ethical and more, I want to say humanistic values that are much more tied into cultural and traditional aspects. And so, when I came to the Institute of American Indian Arts, the school itself has a land grant program.
We are a land grant institution. We've been around for 60 years, and in 1994, they got the designation to be a tribal college and university land grant status and with that status came the ability for them to develop an Ag Extension program. And so I came on board after that program had already launched.
So they had already done a lot of work. They have a beautiful garden space where they grow various foods. And a lot of, a lot of these foods are actually served in the cafe here on campus for our students, but they weren't allowed to have any large livestock. And they knew I had a beekeeping background and they did have permission to have bees.
And so they asked if I would consider starting that program. So I ended up helping the school to get their first five hives. This was back in the spring of 2021. And, from there now. Flash forward to 2025 and we have closer to 30 hives and we work with collaborators at several different Pueblo communities, indigenous stewards who are looking to integrate beekeeping and some of the bee products into some of their own, not only educational, but also entrepreneurial pursuits.
And then we also do research now. We've got several grant projects that are funded by the USDA through some as a cooperative, uh, based through a cooperative agreement with the USDA Office of Tribal Relations, and then also a National Institute of Food and Agriculture grant. So we're really excited to be able to expand our pollinator program to not only support educational interests, but then also to start looking at some of these larger agroecological connections between plants and pollinators and stewardship.
Emile Elias: Excellent. And I feel like you've started to go towards this next question, which is about the goals of the program. And it sounds like they may have started in one arena and they may be growing into another arena. So can you share with us about what the goals of the program are?
Melanie Kirby: Yes, I definitely can, and this ties into your introduction about, you know, the native bee species and non native species.
You know, we live in shared spaces now, and a lot of our target audience, which are Indigenous peoples and stewards, are also very contemporary peoples. And so, we've learned how to indigenize various aspects of some of these, um, species. Sort of introductions to this space and to what we call Turtle Island, or, you know, the larger continental U.S. And so with that, you know, our whole approach for beekeeping is, is very much through an Indigenous lens.
So while there is a sort of conventionality to it in terms of, well, they can be used to help supplement pollination. They can be reared and bred, such as other livestock. Our approach and our intention with it is actually not to maximize that production, but more so to integrate them in to help support a more holistic and more sort of comprehensive approach to land stewardship, so that they're complementary and not extractive.
And so we definitely recognize that, you know, it takes a lot of different pollinators and a lot of different aspects basically from the soil to the sky to, to really keep everything healthy and in balance. And so that's something that we take very serious here.
One of the things I would like to share that folks may not be familiar with is that North America actually did used to have their own endemic honey bee and they found fossil evidence of this bee in Nevada that's dated 14 million years old. They've given it the name Apis naearctica and we don't know what happened to this bee.
So similar to horses, they were actually here on the continent but then some sort of climatic event may have occurred that sort of either removed them or we don't know where they are. And so part of our interest in this research is really trying to find some of these strains that may not necessarily be used conventionally, but that can really inform us of the history.
Sarah LeRoy: Thanks so much, Melanie. Devon, could you tell us just a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?
Davon Collins: Yeah, thank you. I'm Davon Emmanuel Collins. I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, where I was born and raised up until high school. I'm a first generation American, first generation college student.
I come from a very working class background. My mom's from the Dominican Republic, and so I speak fluent Spanish. My dad's from Tobago, so a bit of Patois, and my stepdad was Jamaican. So I'm a proper, like, island baby, I'm a huge foodie because of it. And yeah, I think I've always had an interest in the outdoors and the environment.
I, I'm the product of like, all those good nonprofits trying to get like, youth in New York City up into, into like, the Catskills. And so I went to this camp, um, called Fresh Air Fund. And it was dedicated to just that, getting inner city youth in general to the outdoors. And there was this cow there named Sunshine, who I was obsessed with, and I would like, ask to like, clean her stall.
Like, no one, not even people who wanted to get paid to do that, wanted to do that. But like, I was I was outta my, like, I was in somewhere totally new, and I've always been really curious. And so also in that time there was, there was a cicada infestation. And so I remember like the cicadas getting into the beehive, we'd also feed the cicadas to the turkeys.
So I, I always , uh, like a vested interest in, um, agriculture. And every time I went to camp, like I, I, I looked for that cow, but I think she became a burger at one point. So yeah. Um, but also like my dad, my parents like. My mom's from a city outside of the capital city in the DR, and it's really rural, and my dad grew up in what he calls the bush of Trinidad, so like a rural, like, agrarian environments, and like he’d grew up eating, like, iguana and, like, pigeon meat, so like, yeah, I don't know.
So I've always had an interest in, like, the outdoors, but I've never, like, lived anywhere where that was, because then I went to, I went to boarding school right outside of Philadelphia, and then I went to Howard in D. C., so I've always been, and actually, I remember, like, I called my friend and I was doing, and he was like, you've been wanting to be a pharmaceutical in ninth grade.
And so in some ways, like, this role, like, is like, Many dreams come true. Um, yeah, and I do this work because I, I realized that what, not only is there not access to, like, the environment and, like, outdoors in New York, but, um, Black people of the diaspora, um, have a lot of trauma with, like, land and don't trust the land and are scared of it for, like, obvious historical reasons.
And, like, my friends and parents get crazy for leaving my, like, coastal elite lifestyle to come be a farmer and, like, wear square toe cowboy boots and. Yeah, and so I think, um, and I think that working at the Tribal College, like, allows me to build a really good community with, um, Natives in ways that I've never have been able to before and, like, realize how similarly we respond to oppression and have, um, expressed our resilience.
So, um, I'm really, um, passionate about, like, Black Indigenous land stewardship as ways to heal ourselves and have some sovereignty.
Sarah LeRoy: So this next question is for you, Davon. Uh, you're a Ray Fellow in the program, so I'm wondering could you just describe first what a Ray Fellow is and then what your work there entails?
Davon Collins: Absolutely. So, um, the Ray Program is a program put on by the ELP, the Environmental Leadership Program. It's a non profit based in DC. I think they're remote now. Essentially, the program was kind of born out of an interest to diversify leadership in the environmental industry. I think the The organization is about 30 years old.
So it was founded around in the nineties. And I guess at the time, leaders in the industry, the environmental industry, were like, this is very white. Um, how do we diversify this? Like how do we make this more global? Um, how do we add more global perspectives? And so the Ray Fellowship specifically is named Dr. Roger Allen Young, who actually is also Howard alum, um, at least for under her undergraduate experience and the program's up to her because she was a steward in her, she was a pioneer in that industry. Environmental science, it was not very diverse at the time, and she really led the way for that. And so the program aims to do the same.
And so it takes recent college grads up to three years of undergrad, and you're supposed to be BIPOC, so black, indigenous, or person of color. And, um, they take you and you apply, and you can list your strengths and interests, and they try to match up with the host organization. IAIA, Institute of American Indian Arts was my host organization.
Some of my cohort fellows at Oceana. At various other, like, nonprofits that are concerned with, like, conservation and, like, ecology and, like, policy. Actually, most of us are in D. C. working on, like, environmental policy. But at any rate, I think I have probably the most field based role of all of us. My first day, I was at Big Arch shopping for outdoor clothes and eventually in the field, beekeeping and gardening.
And I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, so this is quite the experience for me. Which I'm very grateful for. See, that's what a Ray Fellow is, and each cohort varies in size. The last cohort, I think, was 20 students. My cohort has nine, so we're one of the smaller cohorts. I think that just depends on variables of like, host orgs availability, budgets, like, because all of us, not all of us, but some of us are paid through, like, external founders.
Like, I'm paid for through an external founder. Some host orgs provide their own funding, but, so yeah, that's a Ray Fellow.
Sarah LeRoy: That's great. So it sounds like you've come kind of full circle back to, to being a part of the land again. And so I'm wondering if you could describe your work in the program and how it, also how it integrates art and science.
Davon Collins: Yeah, so it's funny, I actually have a Bachelor of Fine Art, um, in Electronic Studio Art, that's what the program's called, but I say Digital Art because it's kind of a mouthful. Um, but yeah, I went to Howard, and I finished up my BFA, and so, um, the fellowship is catered to those who don't have an environmental science background, and so, My official title is Research Assistant and Documentarian.
I assist with the research that we do with our bees and our USDA grant funded projects. So that looks like physically, like, beekeeping and when it's warm out or bee season, we're really in the office. We work with 8 land collaborators, most of them being pueblo tribal liaisons. So, like, an average day for us looks like waking up, loading into the van, and driving from one to three Pueblos along I 25 and checking our bees.
And some days we'll do, we'll get the opportunity to do really cool, um, like, Ag Extension and like the language school bring the kids to like a part of the reservation where we like we have like our hive and we'll get to do like demos about that and teach them about it. And, um, so it's really cool. It's, it's in like a really, um, Ag Extension based role.
And the other half of that role is documentarian. So, uh, through like our own, like our own interest here at IAIA and the work that we do through our grants, um, we're sort of working on ways to teach, teach and empower other tribal colleges how to do what we do here. Through a beekeeping program, through land restoration efforts, through our gardening, and yeah, so I get to utilize art and science.
I get to ride Melanie's coattails with her science and assist in that and bring my artist ways. Melanie's also very creative in her own regards, so and a lot of us get to collaborate and it's really a dream come true. I think a lot of people, like, Wish they could work in art and science, but I get to actually do that.
Like, and so I feel very grateful and honored to be here to do that work because I also get to work with, like, really, um, sacred knowledge from elder, from different elders and like, people, like, Native land stewards who share with me and eventually the larger IAIA community. So. Yeah, I hope that answers your question.
Sarah LeRoy: That was great, thank you so much. So this next question is kind of for both of you, but maybe we'll start with you, Melanie. Could you describe the benefits of beekeeping?
Melanie Kirby: Sure, so benefits of beekeeping, oh my gosh, my list is never ending. I really want to say, you know, I'm on a very integrative level and kind of tacking on to this art and science sort of theme, it's definitely very interdisciplinary.
And I think, especially for us here at a tribal college and working with tribal and indigenous peoples, you know, a lot of the historical knowledge and ancestral knowledge that, um, that has been passed on has been done so through very artistic means. But the first scientists, the first educators, the first farmers, the first basically storytellers have been Indigenous peoples.
And one of the things that I like to share with folks is that regardless of what your last name is and where exactly you live. Every single person on this planet can trace their heritage to some Indigenous cultural group somewhere in the world. So we are all very much related and our brothers and sisters in that respect.
Of course some people have more of a day to day connection with their ancestry and some people may, it may be a little bit more far removed, but that's actually one of the sort of roles that we play as a conduit to help people reconnect. And so beekeeping is one such kind of journey that folks can experience that with.
It is an opportunity for folks to reconnect with nature, to marvel at some of the smallest beings that are there, but they're so um, pivotal and are very much keystone species in helping the rest of biodiversity flourish. And it's very much a, I call it sort of a, a cyclical dance, a choreography that happens between plants and pollinators every year.
And, As stewards, we get to not only bear witness to that, but to also be a part of that process, because what we choose to grow, what we choose to even select, in terms of what we plant and where we plant it, how we plant it, when we plant it, it's really much a part of this larger relationship between, as I mentioned before, between the the soil and the sky, right, and everything in between.
So the benefits of beekeeping, I actually kind of find it a little hard to put into succinct language because it actually can be quite emotional. There's ups and downs with it. It's a lot like other, you know, forms of farming in terms of some years are really good.
This past summer, we had a very lush growing season. We had really good summer rains, which was fantastic. But then there are other seasons where it's not so positive. You know, we've got drought. We've got increasing wildfire issues. We've got varying shifting climate concerns and kind of going back to what Emile mentioned in terms of even, you know, beekeeping in tropical places versus beekeeping in temperate or even in desert or intermountain locations, such as ourselves here in New Mexico. There are some things that run very parallel, but all in all, it's very dynamic. And I want to say that's one of the most beneficial things about it is because there's never a dull moment.
Every season is unique. Every hive has its own personality, and the way that our relationship, in terms of getting to know these different hives, and getting to work with them in different locations, really helps to develop a sense of place. And I think that that's what a lot of folks are wanting to reconnect with, is feeling a part of where they are actually living.
So it helps with that. Um, another benefit of course is that pollination is a, is a very sort of underrated ecological service that a lot of pollinators provide. Um, but you know, a lot of our food system is based on pollination. And so I've worked with farmers before who have said, you know, poor pollination is as bad as frost.
So if you don't have the pollinators that you need, or in the the sort of quantity that you need in order to have sufficient pollination, it really will affect not only what the plant can produce, but also the quality of what is produced. So with poor pollination, you're going to get poor seed set, which then also means poor germination.
And so it does have sort of a ripple effect out that will affect even the next season. So I really think of beekeeping a lot in terms of the same way as we do with seed saving. You know, we're trying to actually find these varying, um, strains or ecotypes that have acclimated and do well in a particular space and place, and really look to just let nature take the lead and replicate and follow that, a form of biomimicry, so to speak.
So, you know, we can't speed up how bees are produced or bred, But we can definitely be a part of that selection process and really observe which ones are doing well and which ones are naturally pest and disease resistant and which ones that we would really like to try and share with stewards around our region.
So that's another benefit. Additionally, they make delicious honeys. Which are very beneficial as well, not only because it's a food, it's a, it's one of the most perfect foods because it never goes bad, there's even honey that's been found in Egyptian tombs that's over 3, 000 years old that's still edible to this day.
So they also are extremely fantastic record keepers. I mean, they, they can sort of synthesize a season into this small little drop of collected nectar that then they transform into honey. And that's, um, that's a type of data collection. These are memories that they are collecting. And so similar to plants, you know, each season they're learning, they're recording these memories, and then they're passing it on to the next generation.
And so it's a part of this larger continuum, which I think Also, we as the human stewards get to be a part of and get to, to really sort of play a role in how we help nurture that and help to support that. So, um, another benefit of beekeeping is really helping folks to, uh, become more aware of their connection to, uh, building and maintaining a positive and healthy habitat.
So that's another huge benefit.
Davon Collins: I'd also say, like, you can learn a lot socially about bees. Most people don't know this, but honey is a social product. I learned all this from Melanie, but in order for bees to produce honey, it's very romantic. They have to kiss. So, well, seriously, they do. So, when working with the bees, you'll see them sticking their mouths out.
What's happening is they're passing the honey back and forth, and they use the antennae in their stomachs to process the pollen and the nectar to produce honey. And how many times did they have to do that to produce it?
Melanie Kirby: I don't know exactly how many times, but yeah, there is this whole transformation and they definitely do work in community.
I mean, they, honeybees in particular are social insects. And so they have different roles throughout their lifetime and different abilities depending on their age. And so as they reach the foraging age, they will go out and collect what the colony needs, and they need a diverse diet as well. So, you know, that really connects back to this habitat sort of relationship, but their ability to collect what's needed, the pollens and the nectars, bring it back, and then be able to pass it through this bee kiss, or trophallaxis is what we also call it.
They basically are passing these nectars back and forth, and they're mixing with enzymes, and then it's put into a basically a honeycomb cell, but then they will fan. To the right consistency, because nectar can be quite viscous, and so what they'll want to do is dehydrate it enough so that then no bacteria can grow in it, and that's why I kind of mentioned it as the perfect food, because there's so many natural plant sugars in it that bacteria can't grow, so, you know, in addition to being a wonderful food that's produced in a communal way, it took all these bees to collect it, it took all these plants to be able to share their nectars. You know, it's also an opportunity for them to create medicine.
And so honey is used topically in a lot of different Indigenous cultures around the world to treat wounds, to treat bacterial infections. You know, the age old kind of folklore story about, you know, your grandmother giving you a spoon of honey, maybe with a squeeze of lemon to help with your sore throat.
There's some serious science behind that. It really is. It's a medicine and so that's one of the things that we're really looking forward to doing with some of our research is learning more about the plant medicines and also how that translates into the honeys that are collected and then how, how is that not only medicinal for the bees themselves, but also then for the humans that get to harvest what is extra and to use that as a medicine for their family and community as well.
Sarah LeRoy: Thanks, Melanie, and I love that you said that each hive has its own personality. It's like, yeah, that was amazing. Davon, did you have anything you'd like to add?
Davon Collins: Just, like, concerning my point about the social thing, I feel like, We're so like in like individualistic and like trained to be that way in the West.
And with just looking and observing, working with bees like even the queen is, isn't really that important. Like she's like a kind of a slave to them. Like it's not, it's not the other way around. And it's, um, it's life out west in general is really humbling, but specifically like being a beekeeper is, um, because like everyone just has a function and like.
They work together and like, of course some bees when it comes to like winter get robby and like get aggressive, but they're like it. To me, I think you see, we're still, humans are still animals and so I think we see a very like possible future of what life could be if we all just like work together.
Yeah, so I think there's a lot to learn from bees. They're fascinating, like, the way, like, since I've been here for six months, like, we were with kids as young as, like, kindergarten to kids all up in high school, and, like, high school is a bit over it, but, like, the kids, like, there's, like, this mysticism, and, like, even I meet strangers who talk, like, I'm, like, I'm a beekeeper, and to me, I'm, like, To me, it's like, alright, do it now, it's whatever, but like, it gets this reaction from people that like, you don't really expect, and even me, myself, now that I'm a beekeeper, like, bees are mystic, like, they somehow produce the strongest shape in nature, and, but it's not mystical, it's hard work, like, bees work very hard, and so, it's, I think it's a good allegory, I think bees and beekeeping is a good allegory for life, because it's mystical, but it's also a lot of work, and um, poor Melanie got hurt this summer, like, as we were processing honey, and like, And so it's not, and also like there are times where like we've been working for eight hours and I barely ate yet and like we still have more full hives to pick and like we have to process it and it can be in the honey house.
And so It's not as romantic as it seems, but, um, it's, it's worth it. It's important, so.
Melanie Kirby: Yeah, I would add on to that, too. You know, it really does tap into, of course, the physical, the mental or intellectual, um, sort of wondering what they're doing. You know, we're, we're here trying to decipher their language.
What are they trying to tell us or demonstrate to us? Because they've been here a lot longer than the human species have. You know, humans are one of the species on this planet. So a lot of these other plant and animal relatives have, um, a lot that they can teach us if we, we stay open to it. And then of course the emotional side of it, as Davon was talking about sort of this mystical connection, but it really does show that there's something larger than oneself to connect with.
And this continuum of knowledge that's learned every year that then gets passed on to the next generation. So, you know, bees, especially those that are social like honeybees, you know, they're, the work they're doing now isn't necessarily so that they themselves can live longer. It's more so that their colony can survive future generations.
So there's an element that really does connect also to Indigenous practices and perspectives, which is thinking about future generations and being able to better protect and preserve and to caretake what's now so that then it can also be available for future generations. And I think that's something that really resonates a lot with with a lot of the different communities and folks that we get to work with.
Emile Elias: And continuing on that thought, I want to pick up a thread that, that we mentioned before, and that is around history and the history of bees in the Southwest and the history of beekeeping in the Southwest. And then if there is any unique history of beekeeping in the Southwest specific to Native Americans.
So, Melanie, we'll start with you.
Melanie Kirby: Sure. Well, I can definitely share, you know, interestingly, I only recently heard this, and it was from my advisor, Dr. Steve Shepard, who I did my master's with at Washington State University. But he had shared, you know, there have been accounts of Native Americans who've actually, you know, when they would, stumble upon a bumblebee colony that they would harvest the honey from that.
And so since the contemporary honeybees or Apis mellifera that we have here now in this country are not necessarily considered endemic, they're still cousins to that ancestor bee that I mentioned, this Apis naeartica. And so there was this existence where there was not only synergies, but a shared spacing between different bee species.
And as Emily mentioned, there's, you know, over 3500 bee species in North America alone. Here in the Intermountain Southwest region. We're home to between 1, 400 and 2, 000 of those species, so we're a real hotbed of pollinator and bee specific biodiversity just in this region and that, I think, is super fascinating.
There hasn't really been enough research, um, done on just the diversity of bees that we have in this region. And so we'd really like to be able to help learn more about what is here and is that changing over time? How they're being affected by, um, by shifting climate or by different land stewardship practices.
You know, one of the cool things about my work since it's, you know, above and beyond my work with IAIA being able to connect with stewards over the past three decades, is getting to hear their stories and histories. And there's been a number of Indigenous collaborators that I've worked with who have shared that they remember when their great granddad used to go up into the mountains and would find wild honey.
So whether these are bees that were maybe sort of, uh, kind of remnant strays from when the Spanish came Or, who knows, maybe some, some really interesting line that, you know, somehow was tucked away and survived from that ancestor bee. We don't know, but it would be really awesome for us to explore that more.
So we, one of our upcoming research projects that we're hoping to pitch to get some funding for is to actually go and look at some of these more remote honeybee strains that have been living without human intervention. We've got a lot of different canyons. Of course the topography here, we've got everything from desert to tundra.
So it's it's extreme landscape. It's very dramatic landscape. And it's not the easiest, it's not, you know, a guaranteed honey flow, but those particular organisms that can survive and thrive in this type of ever changing environment are real gems that I think can really inform us more on just, you know, resilience, but then also how we can better preserve and conserve spaces for them, um, and be able to, to do that through integrating art and science and also by being able to work in collaboration and in community.
Emile Elias: Excellent. Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about the course that you offer on beekeeping and the course you've offered for the past few years. And I'm curious about the, the things that you'd like students to take away from your time together during your courses.
Melanie Kirby: You know, interestingly, Devon and I were just insulating some hives at a nursery down the road that, that hosts some of our IAIA hives, and there were a couple walkers that came through, and one of them in particular said, Oh, I saw your presentation at this event, and I just really wanted to tell you that I'm, I'm doing similarly.
I'm really focused on learning more from the land. And I told Davon afterwards, I said, that was very poignant for me to hear because that is one of the biggest takeaways that I really hope students can gain, which is just how much we can learn from the land itself if we open ourselves to it.
And again, the physicality of it, you know, Davon mentioned my injury. I'm actually quite surprised that, you know, I've been doing this now, like I mentioned, for almost three decades that I haven't had a pretty serious injury. Stings don't count, you know, that just comes with the job. But you know, actually, I slipped and caught myself and I tore my right hip labrum and part of my hamstring, so it was not a fun, uh, scenario, but I'm mostly healed now.
And and it really made me recognize, too, like, there is something to be said about learning by doing, right? So, when you are doing things that are physical, it puts you in a different space and connection with what you’re working with. And, you know, the romanticism of sort of driving by a farm or driving by the beehives and being like, oh, that looks so fun, and the reality is, you know, we've got sweat dripping in our eyes, we're, you know, at risk of slipping on a cage, heavy boxes, you know, there, it does give us, I think, a different perspective, but I, one of the reasons I really have liked beekeeping, and I've stuck with it for so long, is the fact that then, when I get home at the end of any given day, I feel like I've really lived.
I feel like my body feels it. My mind has definitely been thinking about so many things that I saw that day, trying to make the connection, trying to decipher what are they trying to tell me, or how can I better understand what's going on? How can I support it? Or maybe I need to, you know, not intervene.
Because we humans do have a tendency to think that we're you know, we need to be, uh, right in the mix of everything, and it's really put us in a place where we're also realizing now, maybe some of the things that we've chosen on a societal level have not been as responsible as they could be, you know, and so I think being able to recognize what does it mean to be a steward and how many different shapes and shades that comes, that comes out to be.
You know, so that's 1 of the key elements as well is just, I think, everybody learning more about themselves and what their interest is. What is it that they're hoping to connect with, or that they want to be better able to support and I'll kind of share this now, just as sort of a prelude to 1 of the bigger things that hopefully we'll get to kind of end with is, you know, this is actually also put us into a realm of policy work.
We're now really motivated to start helping to make larger effectual change through community collaborations. And so one of the things that our course includes is just how to be an advocate. You know, education is part of it, but also how to be an advocate. And so one of the things that we're really instrumental in helping to facilitate is developing a New Mexico pollinator protection plan for our state.
We're really thrilled about that because we want to make sure that there's diverse voices that are a part of that process.
Emile Elias: Oh, thank you. That was a great answer. So, Davon, this next question is for you. You are a Ray Fellow, and I'm curious about your experience with that fellowship. And I'm wondering if there's anything that you've learned or discovered so far that will stay with you.
Davon Collins: Yeah, my experience with the fellowship has been great. IAIA and Melanie have been incredible hosts and like a supervisor to me. I've learned so much. I'll continue to learn. The Ray Fellowship is really cool. We had a retreat earlier in the program, I think maybe like in August, and I got to meet my other fellows.
And I remember when I was graduating college, I was like, am I going to not meet any like smart people again? And I was like, am I going to meet people who I'm going to be inspired by, who I think are cool? And we were like in a room, like all talking to each other, and I was like, oh, I really respect all these people.
Like, I think they're all really smart. They're all pretty cool, and I'm really, like, honored to, like, be in this cohort with them, and so the fellowship has been really incredible in that way, and I've had the most incredible time here. I mean, I'm from the, like, this, when I first came here, I had an immense culture shock.
I'm from New York City, and I've only ever lived in East Coast cities, and I remember being so scared of the open roads and the night here. Like, I, I was, I was driving, and I was like, why are the roads so wide? I can't make this turn, like, I just do not understand why they're so wide, and, or like, you could be on a road and all of a sudden it's a dirt road, and I'm just like, uh, like, or like, it's rugged out here, like, you could be like, it's just, there's, for a city boy, like, one of my co workers jokes that I'm becoming country boy strong, um, because I've driven tractors, and I drive this, like, big white van for work, and, like, I have, oh, I would have never, ever had, like, if I had not come out here.
I went to one of the best universities in the world, and I haven't learned as much about I'm learning these past six months from people and from, like, land stewards and the environment.
I want to talk about myself. Like, I may not, like, have the same, like, access to social environments as I would, like, in big cities, like, I'm used to, but I'm probably the most, like, at peace and, like, happy as I've ever been living, rurally. I mean, Santa Fe isn't super rural, but, like, to me it is, but, like, it's an actuality, probably.
Yeah. Um, and how far everything is, like, yeah, but it's I don't want to say I have a different like value system or values, I think my values are pretty much the same and what it means to have a good time here and connect with people, but the US is so big and life is so different and there's like, there's also so many ways to have a good time.
Like I thought, Um, I like when I first came here, I was like, there are no good clubs out here. There's no good house music. Like, what am, what am I gonna do? ? But there actually is , like, you just gotta, you gotta like find it and like, life is different. Like, like, I think for a while I was thinking really frustrated.
I, I kept expecting like the east coast out of like, out of New Mexico and that was like a stupid thing to do. But like, once I finally embraced it for what it was and like started going like hiking up on walks and like embracing the environment for what it was, like, it really opened it up to me. And, um, Melanie's very humble, but she's like the bee goat.
Like, she's like, you don't go anywhere where someone doesn't know Melanie or know her work. And because of that, I've been ahead of my network. Once again, riding her coattails, I feel like I had access to a really strong network of people who, like, take me in and, like, teach me and, like, like, just show me what all this thing has to offer.
So I've had a really unique experience. And like I said, I, like, I get to, like, work in the fields, but still, like, put my degree to use and make art. And now I really want to get a master's in science, and maybe even entomology. I don't know, but definitely at least get a master's in environmental science, which I don't know that I always would have wanted, or at least Figured a path out to that's the other thing because of like, because of our travels and people that I meet, I understand what that looks like.
Like, I was able to meet some of Melanie's advisory committee. I didn't understand how academia works, like, from a science side. And so I've learned a lot about that as well. And what it means to do research and I've met some researchers. So, um, I think what will stay with me is like, How precious life is out here and how like unique it is like because it's it's rural and it's like agrarian but it's also like people are really progressive here.
And so I think what will stay with me is the possibility that life really can be whatever you want it to be and New Mexico in some ways, like, really taught, like, drove that message home for me.
Sarah LeRoy: That is excellent, and it sounds like a great segue into my next question also, which is about hope, and I'm wondering what gives you hope when, as you look to the future, Davon?
Davon Collins: People like Melanie give me hope. The stewards that we've met, people who are committed to like the environment and like their people and the environmental justice aspects of it. I've met a lot of people like Melanie in that sense. We work with a lot of kids and like seeing the kids who like, who are curious and like, so like we'll be in one of the pueblos and like the um, elders will speak to the kids like in their native tongue.
I think that's pretty cool that, and the way it really gives me hope, even though like that's not necessarily my community, but seeing like, one thing that really gives me hope is the way, like, Pueblos have committed to, like, maintaining their languages and their practices and their, like, societal structures.
Um, as a Black person, like, unfortunately we've had that stripped away from us and I didn't, like, in some ways I thought, like, Wakanda could only exist, like, in, like, a movie, but, like, in a lot of ways, like, like, watching the Native communities, like, commit to that and, like, seeing, like, Like, I'll be, like, watching dances, and, like, they have, like, two year olds dancing, and, like, they know the steps, they know the songs, and, like, they're committed to it, and that's really cool that that's been able to survive, um, all that oppression that's been assigned to them.
So, kids, the stewards, um, and the bees, like, they, like, sometimes we'll approach a hive to do a hive check, and there'll be hundreds of bees dead in front of it. And like, me and Melanie will be stuck in our tracks. It's a grim visual. Like, it's hard to look at. Um, and um, but the bees, the colony is still going.
And like, Melanie would think the queen has died, but it's still there. Like, the queen, she's still there, and they're still going. And, like, also, like, you did, like, the food is growing in the desert. Like, there's desert sand, and stuff is growing out of it. And I just didn't think that was possible. And it's often like land stewards, like specifically like tribal ones, like, they talk about how like dry farming is a very spiritual practice and all the dances and all the like cultural traditions that they do is to like work with creator and the environment to show gratitude and to also to ask for more.
So people, people in the land give me hope.
Sarah LeRoy: That's great. Melanie, what gives you hope?
Melanie Kirby: Oh gosh, lots of things, but for sure, you know, right back at you Davon. Devon gives me a lot of hope, um, especially seeing this next generation, um, really take an interest and wanting to reconnect with their food system and with the lands that they live on and with the people and the places that help to bring them to where they are.
I think part of our larger society has, you know, over time, just due to different kind of, sort of, whether it's due to fashion or politics or, you know, what have you, there's been a lot of derision and a lot of sort of separation of things. And people are craving this ability to reconnect, you know, not only with each other, but then also with where they're living and with the food that they're eating. I mean, we see a lot of different sort of research that's coming out showing, you know, things that we didn't think were an issue are now an issue. Hindsight's always 20 20, but I think really what gives me a lot of hope is the intentionality, and I think when we can demonstrate and support opportunities for intentional sharing, whether that's through education, through professional development, through storytelling, through intergenerational activities and community events.
It gives everybody a sense of hope and I think that's actually what makes me thrive. This is sort of a like a very silly like side story, but I love memes the reason I love memes is because it makes me realize that there's a lot of funny people in the world. We're all just trying to relate and we want to connect and we want to find things that are, you know, what's funny for somebody is really funny for somebody else too, and it makes you feel not alone.
And I think bees are really one of those wonderful sort of connectors that can help us to see that, right? We can see how we're connected to the landscape through the bees. We can see how the landscape feeds them and they also feed the landscape. So there's a lot of reciprocity that is happening and it's a give and a take and it's this relationship that is continuing to evolve and adapt to varying circumstances. You know, bees will live in caves and in varying sort of little pockets into also really, you know, interesting tractors and boxes and designs that we make now. And I think that sort of versatility is also really rather parallel with humans.
We all live in different spaces. We speak different languages. We have different, of course, ethnicities. And bees are very much like that too. You know, there's different races and they have learned how to adapt to different landscapes. And so that also gives me a lot of hope that adaptation is possible.
It takes a long time, but you know, one of those sayings is it's not so much the the strongest that will survive, but those that can't adapt. And I think that's really emblematic of a lot of Indigenous cultures. We're still here. We are very much contemporary peoples. We are living in the here and now, but we're also very much connecting to our past and also wanting to make sure to pass that on to the future.
And I think that that gives me a lot of hope.
Sarah LeRoy: Well, thank you so much. I absolutely love that analogy between bees and people. And I think that's a great note to end this episode on. So thank you so much, Melanie and Davon, for joining us. It's been a pleasure speaking with you about the wonders of bees.
Thank you.
Melanie Kirby: Thanks so much for having us.
Davon Collins: Thank you.
Emile Elias: Thanks for listening to Come Rain or Shine, podcast of the Southwest Climate Hub
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Sarah LeRoy: and the DOI Southwest Climate Adaptation Science Center, or Southwest CASC, operated by the USGS. I'm Sarah LeRoy, Research Coordinator for the Southwest CASC.
Emile Elias: And I'm Emile Elias, Director of the Southwest Climate Hub. Here we highlight stories to share the most recent advances in climate science, weather, and climate adaptation and innovative practices to support resilient landscapes and communities.
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Emile Elias: Bees and other pollinators play a critical role in the production of food and in supporting ecological diversity. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, three fourths of the world's flowering plants and about 35 percent of the world's food crops depend on pollinators to reproduce. USDA estimates that there are more than 3, 500 species of bees native to the United States that contribute to crop pollination. These native bees, along with non native honeybees, play a critical role in pollinating approximately 75 percent of the fruits, nuts, and vegetables grown nationwide.
For our next few episodes, we will be discussing the importance of pollinators, how climate change is affecting them, and the role of beekeeping in revitalizing that biodiversity. Today we're talking with Melanie Kirby, a land grant extension educator with the Institute of American Indian Arts or IAIA, and Davon Collins, a recent graduate of Howard University and a research assistant and documentarian with the Institute.
So, Melanie, Davon, thank you for being with us today. And Melanie, I want to give you a chance to introduce yourself and tell us a bit about how you began beekeeping.
Melanie Kirby: Hi. Well, thank you so much, Emile. It's really great to be able to join you all today. My name is Melanie Kirby. I'm actually a Native, born and bred New Mexican.
I'm a part of what's called Tortugas Pueblo, which is a state recognized tribal community located in southern New Mexico. I'm of mixed heritage as well. My father's from the Caribbean, similar to Davon. Davon will talk about their background. But I grew up here in New Mexico, and my cultural affiliation, I want to say, is very much rooted in my experience as a Native New Mexican.
My mother, actually, who's also from Las Cruces, New Mexico, did the Peace Corps back when it first began in the late 60s, and she was stationed actually in the French Grenadines at St. Vincent, which is where she met my father. And I grew up knowing that that's how they met, and so I had this lifelong sort of commitment already decided at an early age that I wanted to do Peace Corps as well.
And so I ended up graduating from St. John's College here in northern New Mexico in Santa Fe with an advanced liberal arts degree, nothing that really helps you pay the bills, but it was fantastic education nonetheless. It really taught me how to learn, how to be a self directed learner as well.
And so I knew that I wanted to do Peace Corps afterwards and I enlisted as a Peace Corps volunteer, and so the next two years I ended up spending in Paraguay in South America as a beekeeping extensionist volunteer, and I had no sort of experience prior to that. So it was really very much a very interesting experience, not only getting to learn about bees and beekeeping, but also working with Indigenous farmers in other countries and how their food systems are very much connected to their cultural life ways and also to the infrastructure that's available at the time.
And so I kind of took my undergraduate degree experience, this sort of academic kind of upbringing. And then on the other hand, I had, you know, this experience of working with land stewards who, you know, for all intents and purposes, really only had about a fourth grade education, but they were so knowledgeable and so intelligent about how they practice their stewardship.
And I really recognized that I needed to learn more from the land and from people who work with the land. And so I decided that I would put off grad school for a few years to work with farmers. And little did I know that those few years would actually turn into 20 before I decided to go back to school, but I spent those 20 years fully immersed in professional beekeeping, you know, starting from that experience as a Peace Corps volunteer and then going to work for several other commercial operations here stateside.
In fact, the first. I want to say probably eight years of my beekeeping experience was all in tropical places. It was, you know, South America and then in Hawaii and then in Florida. And then I decided I would try and keep bees in my home state of New Mexico. And so that was 20 years ago when I started my small farm here.
So yeah, all in all it's been 28 years of beekeeping for me and I'm still a student for life of this craft.
Emile Elias: Excellent, thank you so much and I'm so curious about how beekeeping in humid tropical areas is different from beekeeping in New Mexico. So hopefully we'll get into that as we go along and I'm also curious about how the beekeeping program at the Institute began.
Melanie Kirby: Yeah, so, once I had finished my grad studies at Washington State University, I knew that I really wanted to help support stewards, and that really is rooted in my experience as a Peace Corps volunteer. So, working with folks who have such innate knowledge of the spaces in which they live and that they're stewarding, and I recognized that more advocacy was needed.
Academics can be very enlightening and can really help to elucidate many different aspects of how and why we do things, but in terms of where that's rooted, comes from more ethical and more, I want to say humanistic values that are much more tied into cultural and traditional aspects. And so, when I came to the Institute of American Indian Arts, the school itself has a land grant program.
We are a land grant institution. We've been around for 60 years, and in 1994, they got the designation to be a tribal college and university land grant status and with that status came the ability for them to develop an Ag Extension program. And so I came on board after that program had already launched.
So they had already done a lot of work. They have a beautiful garden space where they grow various foods. And a lot of, a lot of these foods are actually served in the cafe here on campus for our students, but they weren't allowed to have any large livestock. And they knew I had a beekeeping background and they did have permission to have bees.
And so they asked if I would consider starting that program. So I ended up helping the school to get their first five hives. This was back in the spring of 2021. And, from there now. Flash forward to 2025 and we have closer to 30 hives and we work with collaborators at several different Pueblo communities, indigenous stewards who are looking to integrate beekeeping and some of the bee products into some of their own, not only educational, but also entrepreneurial pursuits.
And then we also do research now. We've got several grant projects that are funded by the USDA through some as a cooperative, uh, based through a cooperative agreement with the USDA Office of Tribal Relations, and then also a National Institute of Food and Agriculture grant. So we're really excited to be able to expand our pollinator program to not only support educational interests, but then also to start looking at some of these larger agroecological connections between plants and pollinators and stewardship.
Emile Elias: Excellent. And I feel like you've started to go towards this next question, which is about the goals of the program. And it sounds like they may have started in one arena and they may be growing into another arena. So can you share with us about what the goals of the program are?
Melanie Kirby: Yes, I definitely can, and this ties into your introduction about, you know, the native bee species and non native species.
You know, we live in shared spaces now, and a lot of our target audience, which are Indigenous peoples and stewards, are also very contemporary peoples. And so, we've learned how to indigenize various aspects of some of these, um, species. Sort of introductions to this space and to what we call Turtle Island, or, you know, the larger continental U.S. And so with that, you know, our whole approach for beekeeping is, is very much through an Indigenous lens.
So while there is a sort of conventionality to it in terms of, well, they can be used to help supplement pollination. They can be reared and bred, such as other livestock. Our approach and our intention with it is actually not to maximize that production, but more so to integrate them in to help support a more holistic and more sort of comprehensive approach to land stewardship, so that they're complementary and not extractive.
And so we definitely recognize that, you know, it takes a lot of different pollinators and a lot of different aspects basically from the soil to the sky to, to really keep everything healthy and in balance. And so that's something that we take very serious here.
One of the things I would like to share that folks may not be familiar with is that North America actually did used to have their own endemic honey bee and they found fossil evidence of this bee in Nevada that's dated 14 million years old. They've given it the name Apis naearctica and we don't know what happened to this bee.
So similar to horses, they were actually here on the continent but then some sort of climatic event may have occurred that sort of either removed them or we don't know where they are. And so part of our interest in this research is really trying to find some of these strains that may not necessarily be used conventionally, but that can really inform us of the history.
Sarah LeRoy: Thanks so much, Melanie. Devon, could you tell us just a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?
Davon Collins: Yeah, thank you. I'm Davon Emmanuel Collins. I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, where I was born and raised up until high school. I'm a first generation American, first generation college student.
I come from a very working class background. My mom's from the Dominican Republic, and so I speak fluent Spanish. My dad's from Tobago, so a bit of Patois, and my stepdad was Jamaican. So I'm a proper, like, island baby, I'm a huge foodie because of it. And yeah, I think I've always had an interest in the outdoors and the environment.
I, I'm the product of like, all those good nonprofits trying to get like, youth in New York City up into, into like, the Catskills. And so I went to this camp, um, called Fresh Air Fund. And it was dedicated to just that, getting inner city youth in general to the outdoors. And there was this cow there named Sunshine, who I was obsessed with, and I would like, ask to like, clean her stall.
Like, no one, not even people who wanted to get paid to do that, wanted to do that. But like, I was I was outta my, like, I was in somewhere totally new, and I've always been really curious. And so also in that time there was, there was a cicada infestation. And so I remember like the cicadas getting into the beehive, we'd also feed the cicadas to the turkeys.
So I, I always , uh, like a vested interest in, um, agriculture. And every time I went to camp, like I, I, I looked for that cow, but I think she became a burger at one point. So yeah. Um, but also like my dad, my parents like. My mom's from a city outside of the capital city in the DR, and it's really rural, and my dad grew up in what he calls the bush of Trinidad, so like a rural, like, agrarian environments, and like he’d grew up eating, like, iguana and, like, pigeon meat, so like, yeah, I don't know.
So I've always had an interest in, like, the outdoors, but I've never, like, lived anywhere where that was, because then I went to, I went to boarding school right outside of Philadelphia, and then I went to Howard in D. C., so I've always been, and actually, I remember, like, I called my friend and I was doing, and he was like, you've been wanting to be a pharmaceutical in ninth grade.
And so in some ways, like, this role, like, is like, Many dreams come true. Um, yeah, and I do this work because I, I realized that what, not only is there not access to, like, the environment and, like, outdoors in New York, but, um, Black people of the diaspora, um, have a lot of trauma with, like, land and don't trust the land and are scared of it for, like, obvious historical reasons.
And, like, my friends and parents get crazy for leaving my, like, coastal elite lifestyle to come be a farmer and, like, wear square toe cowboy boots and. Yeah, and so I think, um, and I think that working at the Tribal College, like, allows me to build a really good community with, um, Natives in ways that I've never have been able to before and, like, realize how similarly we respond to oppression and have, um, expressed our resilience.
So, um, I'm really, um, passionate about, like, Black Indigenous land stewardship as ways to heal ourselves and have some sovereignty.
Sarah LeRoy: So this next question is for you, Davon. Uh, you're a Ray Fellow in the program, so I'm wondering could you just describe first what a Ray Fellow is and then what your work there entails?
Davon Collins: Absolutely. So, um, the Ray Program is a program put on by the ELP, the Environmental Leadership Program. It's a non profit based in DC. I think they're remote now. Essentially, the program was kind of born out of an interest to diversify leadership in the environmental industry. I think the The organization is about 30 years old.
So it was founded around in the nineties. And I guess at the time, leaders in the industry, the environmental industry, were like, this is very white. Um, how do we diversify this? Like how do we make this more global? Um, how do we add more global perspectives? And so the Ray Fellowship specifically is named Dr. Roger Allen Young, who actually is also Howard alum, um, at least for under her undergraduate experience and the program's up to her because she was a steward in her, she was a pioneer in that industry. Environmental science, it was not very diverse at the time, and she really led the way for that. And so the program aims to do the same.
And so it takes recent college grads up to three years of undergrad, and you're supposed to be BIPOC, so black, indigenous, or person of color. And, um, they take you and you apply, and you can list your strengths and interests, and they try to match up with the host organization. IAIA, Institute of American Indian Arts was my host organization.
Some of my cohort fellows at Oceana. At various other, like, nonprofits that are concerned with, like, conservation and, like, ecology and, like, policy. Actually, most of us are in D. C. working on, like, environmental policy. But at any rate, I think I have probably the most field based role of all of us. My first day, I was at Big Arch shopping for outdoor clothes and eventually in the field, beekeeping and gardening.
And I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, so this is quite the experience for me. Which I'm very grateful for. See, that's what a Ray Fellow is, and each cohort varies in size. The last cohort, I think, was 20 students. My cohort has nine, so we're one of the smaller cohorts. I think that just depends on variables of like, host orgs availability, budgets, like, because all of us, not all of us, but some of us are paid through, like, external founders.
Like, I'm paid for through an external founder. Some host orgs provide their own funding, but, so yeah, that's a Ray Fellow.
Sarah LeRoy: That's great. So it sounds like you've come kind of full circle back to, to being a part of the land again. And so I'm wondering if you could describe your work in the program and how it, also how it integrates art and science.
Davon Collins: Yeah, so it's funny, I actually have a Bachelor of Fine Art, um, in Electronic Studio Art, that's what the program's called, but I say Digital Art because it's kind of a mouthful. Um, but yeah, I went to Howard, and I finished up my BFA, and so, um, the fellowship is catered to those who don't have an environmental science background, and so, My official title is Research Assistant and Documentarian.
I assist with the research that we do with our bees and our USDA grant funded projects. So that looks like physically, like, beekeeping and when it's warm out or bee season, we're really in the office. We work with 8 land collaborators, most of them being pueblo tribal liaisons. So, like, an average day for us looks like waking up, loading into the van, and driving from one to three Pueblos along I 25 and checking our bees.
And some days we'll do, we'll get the opportunity to do really cool, um, like, Ag Extension and like the language school bring the kids to like a part of the reservation where we like we have like our hive and we'll get to do like demos about that and teach them about it. And, um, so it's really cool. It's, it's in like a really, um, Ag Extension based role.
And the other half of that role is documentarian. So, uh, through like our own, like our own interest here at IAIA and the work that we do through our grants, um, we're sort of working on ways to teach, teach and empower other tribal colleges how to do what we do here. Through a beekeeping program, through land restoration efforts, through our gardening, and yeah, so I get to utilize art and science.
I get to ride Melanie's coattails with her science and assist in that and bring my artist ways. Melanie's also very creative in her own regards, so and a lot of us get to collaborate and it's really a dream come true. I think a lot of people, like, Wish they could work in art and science, but I get to actually do that.
Like, and so I feel very grateful and honored to be here to do that work because I also get to work with, like, really, um, sacred knowledge from elder, from different elders and like, people, like, Native land stewards who share with me and eventually the larger IAIA community. So. Yeah, I hope that answers your question.
Sarah LeRoy: That was great, thank you so much. So this next question is kind of for both of you, but maybe we'll start with you, Melanie. Could you describe the benefits of beekeeping?
Melanie Kirby: Sure, so benefits of beekeeping, oh my gosh, my list is never ending. I really want to say, you know, I'm on a very integrative level and kind of tacking on to this art and science sort of theme, it's definitely very interdisciplinary.
And I think, especially for us here at a tribal college and working with tribal and indigenous peoples, you know, a lot of the historical knowledge and ancestral knowledge that, um, that has been passed on has been done so through very artistic means. But the first scientists, the first educators, the first farmers, the first basically storytellers have been Indigenous peoples.
And one of the things that I like to share with folks is that regardless of what your last name is and where exactly you live. Every single person on this planet can trace their heritage to some Indigenous cultural group somewhere in the world. So we are all very much related and our brothers and sisters in that respect.
Of course some people have more of a day to day connection with their ancestry and some people may, it may be a little bit more far removed, but that's actually one of the sort of roles that we play as a conduit to help people reconnect. And so beekeeping is one such kind of journey that folks can experience that with.
It is an opportunity for folks to reconnect with nature, to marvel at some of the smallest beings that are there, but they're so um, pivotal and are very much keystone species in helping the rest of biodiversity flourish. And it's very much a, I call it sort of a, a cyclical dance, a choreography that happens between plants and pollinators every year.
And, As stewards, we get to not only bear witness to that, but to also be a part of that process, because what we choose to grow, what we choose to even select, in terms of what we plant and where we plant it, how we plant it, when we plant it, it's really much a part of this larger relationship between, as I mentioned before, between the the soil and the sky, right, and everything in between.
So the benefits of beekeeping, I actually kind of find it a little hard to put into succinct language because it actually can be quite emotional. There's ups and downs with it. It's a lot like other, you know, forms of farming in terms of some years are really good.
This past summer, we had a very lush growing season. We had really good summer rains, which was fantastic. But then there are other seasons where it's not so positive. You know, we've got drought. We've got increasing wildfire issues. We've got varying shifting climate concerns and kind of going back to what Emile mentioned in terms of even, you know, beekeeping in tropical places versus beekeeping in temperate or even in desert or intermountain locations, such as ourselves here in New Mexico. There are some things that run very parallel, but all in all, it's very dynamic. And I want to say that's one of the most beneficial things about it is because there's never a dull moment.
Every season is unique. Every hive has its own personality, and the way that our relationship, in terms of getting to know these different hives, and getting to work with them in different locations, really helps to develop a sense of place. And I think that that's what a lot of folks are wanting to reconnect with, is feeling a part of where they are actually living.
So it helps with that. Um, another benefit of course is that pollination is a, is a very sort of underrated ecological service that a lot of pollinators provide. Um, but you know, a lot of our food system is based on pollination. And so I've worked with farmers before who have said, you know, poor pollination is as bad as frost.
So if you don't have the pollinators that you need, or in the the sort of quantity that you need in order to have sufficient pollination, it really will affect not only what the plant can produce, but also the quality of what is produced. So with poor pollination, you're going to get poor seed set, which then also means poor germination.
And so it does have sort of a ripple effect out that will affect even the next season. So I really think of beekeeping a lot in terms of the same way as we do with seed saving. You know, we're trying to actually find these varying, um, strains or ecotypes that have acclimated and do well in a particular space and place, and really look to just let nature take the lead and replicate and follow that, a form of biomimicry, so to speak.
So, you know, we can't speed up how bees are produced or bred, But we can definitely be a part of that selection process and really observe which ones are doing well and which ones are naturally pest and disease resistant and which ones that we would really like to try and share with stewards around our region.
So that's another benefit. Additionally, they make delicious honeys. Which are very beneficial as well, not only because it's a food, it's a, it's one of the most perfect foods because it never goes bad, there's even honey that's been found in Egyptian tombs that's over 3, 000 years old that's still edible to this day.
So they also are extremely fantastic record keepers. I mean, they, they can sort of synthesize a season into this small little drop of collected nectar that then they transform into honey. And that's, um, that's a type of data collection. These are memories that they are collecting. And so similar to plants, you know, each season they're learning, they're recording these memories, and then they're passing it on to the next generation.
And so it's a part of this larger continuum, which I think Also, we as the human stewards get to be a part of and get to, to really sort of play a role in how we help nurture that and help to support that. So, um, another benefit of beekeeping is really helping folks to, uh, become more aware of their connection to, uh, building and maintaining a positive and healthy habitat.
So that's another huge benefit.
Davon Collins: I'd also say, like, you can learn a lot socially about bees. Most people don't know this, but honey is a social product. I learned all this from Melanie, but in order for bees to produce honey, it's very romantic. They have to kiss. So, well, seriously, they do. So, when working with the bees, you'll see them sticking their mouths out.
What's happening is they're passing the honey back and forth, and they use the antennae in their stomachs to process the pollen and the nectar to produce honey. And how many times did they have to do that to produce it?
Melanie Kirby: I don't know exactly how many times, but yeah, there is this whole transformation and they definitely do work in community.
I mean, they, honeybees in particular are social insects. And so they have different roles throughout their lifetime and different abilities depending on their age. And so as they reach the foraging age, they will go out and collect what the colony needs, and they need a diverse diet as well. So, you know, that really connects back to this habitat sort of relationship, but their ability to collect what's needed, the pollens and the nectars, bring it back, and then be able to pass it through this bee kiss, or trophallaxis is what we also call it.
They basically are passing these nectars back and forth, and they're mixing with enzymes, and then it's put into a basically a honeycomb cell, but then they will fan. To the right consistency, because nectar can be quite viscous, and so what they'll want to do is dehydrate it enough so that then no bacteria can grow in it, and that's why I kind of mentioned it as the perfect food, because there's so many natural plant sugars in it that bacteria can't grow, so, you know, in addition to being a wonderful food that's produced in a communal way, it took all these bees to collect it, it took all these plants to be able to share their nectars. You know, it's also an opportunity for them to create medicine.
And so honey is used topically in a lot of different Indigenous cultures around the world to treat wounds, to treat bacterial infections. You know, the age old kind of folklore story about, you know, your grandmother giving you a spoon of honey, maybe with a squeeze of lemon to help with your sore throat.
There's some serious science behind that. It really is. It's a medicine and so that's one of the things that we're really looking forward to doing with some of our research is learning more about the plant medicines and also how that translates into the honeys that are collected and then how, how is that not only medicinal for the bees themselves, but also then for the humans that get to harvest what is extra and to use that as a medicine for their family and community as well.
Sarah LeRoy: Thanks, Melanie, and I love that you said that each hive has its own personality. It's like, yeah, that was amazing. Davon, did you have anything you'd like to add?
Davon Collins: Just, like, concerning my point about the social thing, I feel like, We're so like in like individualistic and like trained to be that way in the West.
And with just looking and observing, working with bees like even the queen is, isn't really that important. Like she's like a kind of a slave to them. Like it's not, it's not the other way around. And it's, um, it's life out west in general is really humbling, but specifically like being a beekeeper is, um, because like everyone just has a function and like.
They work together and like, of course some bees when it comes to like winter get robby and like get aggressive, but they're like it. To me, I think you see, we're still, humans are still animals and so I think we see a very like possible future of what life could be if we all just like work together.
Yeah, so I think there's a lot to learn from bees. They're fascinating, like, the way, like, since I've been here for six months, like, we were with kids as young as, like, kindergarten to kids all up in high school, and, like, high school is a bit over it, but, like, the kids, like, there's, like, this mysticism, and, like, even I meet strangers who talk, like, I'm, like, I'm a beekeeper, and to me, I'm, like, To me, it's like, alright, do it now, it's whatever, but like, it gets this reaction from people that like, you don't really expect, and even me, myself, now that I'm a beekeeper, like, bees are mystic, like, they somehow produce the strongest shape in nature, and, but it's not mystical, it's hard work, like, bees work very hard, and so, it's, I think it's a good allegory, I think bees and beekeeping is a good allegory for life, because it's mystical, but it's also a lot of work, and um, poor Melanie got hurt this summer, like, as we were processing honey, and like, And so it's not, and also like there are times where like we've been working for eight hours and I barely ate yet and like we still have more full hives to pick and like we have to process it and it can be in the honey house.
And so It's not as romantic as it seems, but, um, it's, it's worth it. It's important, so.
Melanie Kirby: Yeah, I would add on to that, too. You know, it really does tap into, of course, the physical, the mental or intellectual, um, sort of wondering what they're doing. You know, we're, we're here trying to decipher their language.
What are they trying to tell us or demonstrate to us? Because they've been here a lot longer than the human species have. You know, humans are one of the species on this planet. So a lot of these other plant and animal relatives have, um, a lot that they can teach us if we, we stay open to it. And then of course the emotional side of it, as Davon was talking about sort of this mystical connection, but it really does show that there's something larger than oneself to connect with.
And this continuum of knowledge that's learned every year that then gets passed on to the next generation. So, you know, bees, especially those that are social like honeybees, you know, they're, the work they're doing now isn't necessarily so that they themselves can live longer. It's more so that their colony can survive future generations.
So there's an element that really does connect also to Indigenous practices and perspectives, which is thinking about future generations and being able to better protect and preserve and to caretake what's now so that then it can also be available for future generations. And I think that's something that really resonates a lot with with a lot of the different communities and folks that we get to work with.
Emile Elias: And continuing on that thought, I want to pick up a thread that, that we mentioned before, and that is around history and the history of bees in the Southwest and the history of beekeeping in the Southwest. And then if there is any unique history of beekeeping in the Southwest specific to Native Americans.
So, Melanie, we'll start with you.
Melanie Kirby: Sure. Well, I can definitely share, you know, interestingly, I only recently heard this, and it was from my advisor, Dr. Steve Shepard, who I did my master's with at Washington State University. But he had shared, you know, there have been accounts of Native Americans who've actually, you know, when they would, stumble upon a bumblebee colony that they would harvest the honey from that.
And so since the contemporary honeybees or Apis mellifera that we have here now in this country are not necessarily considered endemic, they're still cousins to that ancestor bee that I mentioned, this Apis naeartica. And so there was this existence where there was not only synergies, but a shared spacing between different bee species.
And as Emily mentioned, there's, you know, over 3500 bee species in North America alone. Here in the Intermountain Southwest region. We're home to between 1, 400 and 2, 000 of those species, so we're a real hotbed of pollinator and bee specific biodiversity just in this region and that, I think, is super fascinating.
There hasn't really been enough research, um, done on just the diversity of bees that we have in this region. And so we'd really like to be able to help learn more about what is here and is that changing over time? How they're being affected by, um, by shifting climate or by different land stewardship practices.
You know, one of the cool things about my work since it's, you know, above and beyond my work with IAIA being able to connect with stewards over the past three decades, is getting to hear their stories and histories. And there's been a number of Indigenous collaborators that I've worked with who have shared that they remember when their great granddad used to go up into the mountains and would find wild honey.
So whether these are bees that were maybe sort of, uh, kind of remnant strays from when the Spanish came Or, who knows, maybe some, some really interesting line that, you know, somehow was tucked away and survived from that ancestor bee. We don't know, but it would be really awesome for us to explore that more.
So we, one of our upcoming research projects that we're hoping to pitch to get some funding for is to actually go and look at some of these more remote honeybee strains that have been living without human intervention. We've got a lot of different canyons. Of course the topography here, we've got everything from desert to tundra.
So it's it's extreme landscape. It's very dramatic landscape. And it's not the easiest, it's not, you know, a guaranteed honey flow, but those particular organisms that can survive and thrive in this type of ever changing environment are real gems that I think can really inform us more on just, you know, resilience, but then also how we can better preserve and conserve spaces for them, um, and be able to, to do that through integrating art and science and also by being able to work in collaboration and in community.
Emile Elias: Excellent. Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about the course that you offer on beekeeping and the course you've offered for the past few years. And I'm curious about the, the things that you'd like students to take away from your time together during your courses.
Melanie Kirby: You know, interestingly, Devon and I were just insulating some hives at a nursery down the road that, that hosts some of our IAIA hives, and there were a couple walkers that came through, and one of them in particular said, Oh, I saw your presentation at this event, and I just really wanted to tell you that I'm, I'm doing similarly.
I'm really focused on learning more from the land. And I told Davon afterwards, I said, that was very poignant for me to hear because that is one of the biggest takeaways that I really hope students can gain, which is just how much we can learn from the land itself if we open ourselves to it.
And again, the physicality of it, you know, Davon mentioned my injury. I'm actually quite surprised that, you know, I've been doing this now, like I mentioned, for almost three decades that I haven't had a pretty serious injury. Stings don't count, you know, that just comes with the job. But you know, actually, I slipped and caught myself and I tore my right hip labrum and part of my hamstring, so it was not a fun, uh, scenario, but I'm mostly healed now.
And and it really made me recognize, too, like, there is something to be said about learning by doing, right? So, when you are doing things that are physical, it puts you in a different space and connection with what you’re working with. And, you know, the romanticism of sort of driving by a farm or driving by the beehives and being like, oh, that looks so fun, and the reality is, you know, we've got sweat dripping in our eyes, we're, you know, at risk of slipping on a cage, heavy boxes, you know, there, it does give us, I think, a different perspective, but I, one of the reasons I really have liked beekeeping, and I've stuck with it for so long, is the fact that then, when I get home at the end of any given day, I feel like I've really lived.
I feel like my body feels it. My mind has definitely been thinking about so many things that I saw that day, trying to make the connection, trying to decipher what are they trying to tell me, or how can I better understand what's going on? How can I support it? Or maybe I need to, you know, not intervene.
Because we humans do have a tendency to think that we're you know, we need to be, uh, right in the mix of everything, and it's really put us in a place where we're also realizing now, maybe some of the things that we've chosen on a societal level have not been as responsible as they could be, you know, and so I think being able to recognize what does it mean to be a steward and how many different shapes and shades that comes, that comes out to be.
You know, so that's 1 of the key elements as well is just, I think, everybody learning more about themselves and what their interest is. What is it that they're hoping to connect with, or that they want to be better able to support and I'll kind of share this now, just as sort of a prelude to 1 of the bigger things that hopefully we'll get to kind of end with is, you know, this is actually also put us into a realm of policy work.
We're now really motivated to start helping to make larger effectual change through community collaborations. And so one of the things that our course includes is just how to be an advocate. You know, education is part of it, but also how to be an advocate. And so one of the things that we're really instrumental in helping to facilitate is developing a New Mexico pollinator protection plan for our state.
We're really thrilled about that because we want to make sure that there's diverse voices that are a part of that process.
Emile Elias: Oh, thank you. That was a great answer. So, Davon, this next question is for you. You are a Ray Fellow, and I'm curious about your experience with that fellowship. And I'm wondering if there's anything that you've learned or discovered so far that will stay with you.
Davon Collins: Yeah, my experience with the fellowship has been great. IAIA and Melanie have been incredible hosts and like a supervisor to me. I've learned so much. I'll continue to learn. The Ray Fellowship is really cool. We had a retreat earlier in the program, I think maybe like in August, and I got to meet my other fellows.
And I remember when I was graduating college, I was like, am I going to not meet any like smart people again? And I was like, am I going to meet people who I'm going to be inspired by, who I think are cool? And we were like in a room, like all talking to each other, and I was like, oh, I really respect all these people.
Like, I think they're all really smart. They're all pretty cool, and I'm really, like, honored to, like, be in this cohort with them, and so the fellowship has been really incredible in that way, and I've had the most incredible time here. I mean, I'm from the, like, this, when I first came here, I had an immense culture shock.
I'm from New York City, and I've only ever lived in East Coast cities, and I remember being so scared of the open roads and the night here. Like, I, I was, I was driving, and I was like, why are the roads so wide? I can't make this turn, like, I just do not understand why they're so wide, and, or like, you could be on a road and all of a sudden it's a dirt road, and I'm just like, uh, like, or like, it's rugged out here, like, you could be like, it's just, there's, for a city boy, like, one of my co workers jokes that I'm becoming country boy strong, um, because I've driven tractors, and I drive this, like, big white van for work, and, like, I have, oh, I would have never, ever had, like, if I had not come out here.
I went to one of the best universities in the world, and I haven't learned as much about I'm learning these past six months from people and from, like, land stewards and the environment.
I want to talk about myself. Like, I may not, like, have the same, like, access to social environments as I would, like, in big cities, like, I'm used to, but I'm probably the most, like, at peace and, like, happy as I've ever been living, rurally. I mean, Santa Fe isn't super rural, but, like, to me it is, but, like, it's an actuality, probably.
Yeah. Um, and how far everything is, like, yeah, but it's I don't want to say I have a different like value system or values, I think my values are pretty much the same and what it means to have a good time here and connect with people, but the US is so big and life is so different and there's like, there's also so many ways to have a good time.
Like I thought, Um, I like when I first came here, I was like, there are no good clubs out here. There's no good house music. Like, what am, what am I gonna do? ? But there actually is , like, you just gotta, you gotta like find it and like, life is different. Like, like, I think for a while I was thinking really frustrated.
I, I kept expecting like the east coast out of like, out of New Mexico and that was like a stupid thing to do. But like, once I finally embraced it for what it was and like started going like hiking up on walks and like embracing the environment for what it was, like, it really opened it up to me. And, um, Melanie's very humble, but she's like the bee goat.
Like, she's like, you don't go anywhere where someone doesn't know Melanie or know her work. And because of that, I've been ahead of my network. Once again, riding her coattails, I feel like I had access to a really strong network of people who, like, take me in and, like, teach me and, like, like, just show me what all this thing has to offer.
So I've had a really unique experience. And like I said, I, like, I get to, like, work in the fields, but still, like, put my degree to use and make art. And now I really want to get a master's in science, and maybe even entomology. I don't know, but definitely at least get a master's in environmental science, which I don't know that I always would have wanted, or at least Figured a path out to that's the other thing because of like, because of our travels and people that I meet, I understand what that looks like.
Like, I was able to meet some of Melanie's advisory committee. I didn't understand how academia works, like, from a science side. And so I've learned a lot about that as well. And what it means to do research and I've met some researchers. So, um, I think what will stay with me is like, How precious life is out here and how like unique it is like because it's it's rural and it's like agrarian but it's also like people are really progressive here.
And so I think what will stay with me is the possibility that life really can be whatever you want it to be and New Mexico in some ways, like, really taught, like, drove that message home for me.
Sarah LeRoy: That is excellent, and it sounds like a great segue into my next question also, which is about hope, and I'm wondering what gives you hope when, as you look to the future, Davon?
Davon Collins: People like Melanie give me hope. The stewards that we've met, people who are committed to like the environment and like their people and the environmental justice aspects of it. I've met a lot of people like Melanie in that sense. We work with a lot of kids and like seeing the kids who like, who are curious and like, so like we'll be in one of the pueblos and like the um, elders will speak to the kids like in their native tongue.
I think that's pretty cool that, and the way it really gives me hope, even though like that's not necessarily my community, but seeing like, one thing that really gives me hope is the way, like, Pueblos have committed to, like, maintaining their languages and their practices and their, like, societal structures.
Um, as a Black person, like, unfortunately we've had that stripped away from us and I didn't, like, in some ways I thought, like, Wakanda could only exist, like, in, like, a movie, but, like, in a lot of ways, like, like, watching the Native communities, like, commit to that and, like, seeing, like, Like, I'll be, like, watching dances, and, like, they have, like, two year olds dancing, and, like, they know the steps, they know the songs, and, like, they're committed to it, and that's really cool that that's been able to survive, um, all that oppression that's been assigned to them.
So, kids, the stewards, um, and the bees, like, they, like, sometimes we'll approach a hive to do a hive check, and there'll be hundreds of bees dead in front of it. And like, me and Melanie will be stuck in our tracks. It's a grim visual. Like, it's hard to look at. Um, and um, but the bees, the colony is still going.
And like, Melanie would think the queen has died, but it's still there. Like, the queen, she's still there, and they're still going. And, like, also, like, you did, like, the food is growing in the desert. Like, there's desert sand, and stuff is growing out of it. And I just didn't think that was possible. And it's often like land stewards, like specifically like tribal ones, like, they talk about how like dry farming is a very spiritual practice and all the dances and all the like cultural traditions that they do is to like work with creator and the environment to show gratitude and to also to ask for more.
So people, people in the land give me hope.
Sarah LeRoy: That's great. Melanie, what gives you hope?
Melanie Kirby: Oh gosh, lots of things, but for sure, you know, right back at you Davon. Devon gives me a lot of hope, um, especially seeing this next generation, um, really take an interest and wanting to reconnect with their food system and with the lands that they live on and with the people and the places that help to bring them to where they are.
I think part of our larger society has, you know, over time, just due to different kind of, sort of, whether it's due to fashion or politics or, you know, what have you, there's been a lot of derision and a lot of sort of separation of things. And people are craving this ability to reconnect, you know, not only with each other, but then also with where they're living and with the food that they're eating. I mean, we see a lot of different sort of research that's coming out showing, you know, things that we didn't think were an issue are now an issue. Hindsight's always 20 20, but I think really what gives me a lot of hope is the intentionality, and I think when we can demonstrate and support opportunities for intentional sharing, whether that's through education, through professional development, through storytelling, through intergenerational activities and community events.
It gives everybody a sense of hope and I think that's actually what makes me thrive. This is sort of a like a very silly like side story, but I love memes the reason I love memes is because it makes me realize that there's a lot of funny people in the world. We're all just trying to relate and we want to connect and we want to find things that are, you know, what's funny for somebody is really funny for somebody else too, and it makes you feel not alone.
And I think bees are really one of those wonderful sort of connectors that can help us to see that, right? We can see how we're connected to the landscape through the bees. We can see how the landscape feeds them and they also feed the landscape. So there's a lot of reciprocity that is happening and it's a give and a take and it's this relationship that is continuing to evolve and adapt to varying circumstances. You know, bees will live in caves and in varying sort of little pockets into also really, you know, interesting tractors and boxes and designs that we make now. And I think that sort of versatility is also really rather parallel with humans.
We all live in different spaces. We speak different languages. We have different, of course, ethnicities. And bees are very much like that too. You know, there's different races and they have learned how to adapt to different landscapes. And so that also gives me a lot of hope that adaptation is possible.
It takes a long time, but you know, one of those sayings is it's not so much the the strongest that will survive, but those that can't adapt. And I think that's really emblematic of a lot of Indigenous cultures. We're still here. We are very much contemporary peoples. We are living in the here and now, but we're also very much connecting to our past and also wanting to make sure to pass that on to the future.
And I think that that gives me a lot of hope.
Sarah LeRoy: Well, thank you so much. I absolutely love that analogy between bees and people. And I think that's a great note to end this episode on. So thank you so much, Melanie and Davon, for joining us. It's been a pleasure speaking with you about the wonders of bees.
Thank you.
Melanie Kirby: Thanks so much for having us.
Davon Collins: Thank you.
Emile Elias: Thanks for listening to Come Rain or Shine, podcast of the Southwest Climate Hub
Sarah LeRoy: and the USGS Southwest CASC. If you liked this podcast, don't forget to rate or review and subscribe for more great episodes. A special thanks to our production crew, Skye Aney and Reanna Burnett. If you want more information, have any questions for the speakers, or would like to offer feedback, please reach out to us via our website.
