WEBVTT
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Hey guys, welcome back to Coffee with Composers.
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I'm Joe Criss, and today's guest is Canadian
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musician and composer Jay McCarroll. Jay has
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worked on films such as The Kid Detective, last
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year's critically acclaimed Blackberry, and one
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of my favorite films of this year, Hell of a
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Summer. In addition to being a composer, Jay's
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been part of a web series since 2006, which then
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became a sitcom and is now going to be a movie.
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The web series is called Nirvana The Band The
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Show. Before we start the interview, I do just
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want to point out that we have started a mailing
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list, and if you are interested in joining the
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mailing list, it is going to be in the show notes,
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so check that out. And we've also launched a
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YouTube channel under my name, Joe Chris, so
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be sure to check that out for some great music
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content. Anyway, let's hop into this. Hey, thanks
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for joining me today, Jay. One thing that I find
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so interesting about you is you were doing web
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series basically since the start of the YouTube
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era with your friend Matt, on a bunch of projects
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including two recent ones blackberry and hell
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of a summer how'd you guys meet and how'd you
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get into all this well i'll clarify matt didn't
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have anything to do with hell of a summer um
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i thought he directed that my bad no you know
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who directed that is uh finn wolfhard and billy
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brick who started in it as well Yeah, it was
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their first feature. And they're a bunch of young
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guys who are at the same age as Matt and I when
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we started our web series way back in 2006 when
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web series were just like, what are these? Web
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series? Well, this has got to be terrible then.
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This is just... So, yes, it was... We did feel
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new. The only thing that was giving us a sort
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of North Star... like the whole concept of Nirvana,
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the band, we actually originally wanted to just
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make a short film or a movie. And, uh, we saw
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this web series, Clark and Michael starring Mike,
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Sarah and Clark Duke. And we're like, you know
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what this let's just take this exact like template
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of a 10 episode, 10 minute each webisode format.
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And let's just do exactly this. Cause we've got
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our own characters. We've got our own ideas.
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And we just started, you know, figuring our way
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through that just chronologically in time. Like
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we weren't like writing ahead. We were kind of
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just writing the next episode as we went. And
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that's how we kind of found our voice and certainly
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how Matt honed his voice in filmmaking. Awesome.
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Yeah, a lot of that voice and tone really carried
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over into BlackBerry last year too. Like you
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could really see the parallels in it. Well, it
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was a long journey. It was it was from the web
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series and then to Matt's two first features
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were also done sort of very found footage style.
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And then to our TV show, which sort of elevated
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it again, where we sort of were refining and
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getting our like really starting to understand
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and articulate what the technique was of that
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filmmaking. And then. BlackBerry was the challenge
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to sort of say, how do we do this and make it
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look like a movie and not like found footage?
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But using all the same principles of foreground,
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private moments, distance, far at the end of
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the lens, using Zoom to really meet a character's
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performance halfway. There's a lot of little
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techniques that we were very self -aware of at
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that point. Awesome, awesome. In BlackBerry,
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how did you sort of... approach that modern like
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late 90s feel but still keep it kind of contemporary
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in sound in the score um a lot of it was just
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um a reaction to as i was building my template
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of sounds and just kind of um experimenting with
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just starting to build my template i would just
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find something that evoked something 90s anything
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90s and it would just become a piece like I would
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just kind of leave that track with that instrument
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there call it something and then I would build
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my template that way and then it seemed for for
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a lot of weeks I was just doing a lot of very
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free experimentation I'd throw some dailies up
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to just kind of look at and try and I went far
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in different directions and I remember there
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was just a certain point after maybe a little
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bit after principal photography was done and
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i was sending some uh some demos and stuff to
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our editors and they wrote back after just one
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particular big batch of like demo songs and they're
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like wow like it really feels like you've found
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the sound and i didn't even realize it and then
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i kind of took a step back and said okay if this
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is getting the sort of reaction then i can start
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to refine um I can start to put my guardrails
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around this sound, and I started to understand
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what my boundaries were of the whole spectrum
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of it. And from then on, it was like a downhill
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sprint. Awesome. Do you usually like to come
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on to a project earlier like that, or do you
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tend to get in pretty late? Honestly, I'd love
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to sort of have the rule that I've heard is a
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very... tried, tested, and true rule from film
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composers where they say, I'm not writing a note
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until I have picture lock. And I'll just watch
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the whole movie fresh, done, and it'll speak
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to me. And I see that process as being really
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exciting and inspiring. And I just haven't been
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able to do it because with the few directors
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that I have worked with, I think maybe we end
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up getting into a lot of conversations. They
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let me into some of the filmmaking, and I'm very
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inquisitive about how it's being shot and what's
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happening. And it just so happens that we just
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start talking about trying stuff, and I just
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end up getting started. And it's probably for
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the better, so it doesn't all bottleneck at the
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end. But I'm still looking forward to a project
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where I can just... That's what John Williams
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talks about all the time. He's like, I don't
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like to read the script. I like to just watch
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it, and it'll speak to me. It sounds really nice.
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Awesome, awesome. On Hell of a Summer, did you
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come in towards the end? I guess you didn't come
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in when you had a locked cup, but how did that
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process go, especially navigating that sort of
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horror -comedy divide? Again, I started sending
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some ideas to Finn and Billy. uh, pretty early.
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And, uh, and they're very good at, at sort of
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being opinionated about like where they wanted
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to go with it. And they had, what's, what's impressive
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about those guys is that they have this, this
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kind of charming voice of, of comedy. And maybe,
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maybe you can call it dark comedy, but it's certainly
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their own, uh, brand that they're honing in on.
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And so they're really good with each other about,
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um, you know process of elimination of just like
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what works what doesn't they might not explain
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exactly what it is but they know what they don't
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want it to be and that's something that i i have
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a lot in common with them with the way matt and
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i worked a lot of process of elimination where
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we don't we agree more about what we don't want
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it to be than what we want it to be and that
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can sort of just start at least giving you some
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direction um Interesting. Were there any scores
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in particular you were trying to lean into for
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references on that one? Yeah, I mean, they did
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have some references that they sent me, but it
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was, again, pretty wide. It didn't necessarily
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point to something so specifically. The way they
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shot it and the way it looked, it certainly was
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lending itself more to certain directions. the
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moment I started just finding the right balance
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of old school synth, like carpentry stuff, but
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also kind of trying to give it that modern cinematic
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lift where it needs. But, you know, when you
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talk about independent scoring versus maybe the
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bigger studio picture scoring, this is certainly,
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I think. An example of that independent stuff
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where there's so much little tiny bespoke ways
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that this score was made. It is the sum of all
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of its little tiny pieces that were coming from
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a lot of different places. I feel like we were
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kind of honing in on what it was for a long time.
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And they were very opinionated about it and we
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chipped away at it until it got to just the right
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amount of sort of like dreadful fun that sort
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of in a weird way just sort of worked with it.
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I was just with Fred Hechinger who starred in
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it. We were on set of a movie that... Finn and
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Billy are in again and Fred was visiting and
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I was visiting and I hadn't seen Fred in a while
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and he said to me he's like oh dude the score
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it's so it's so like he kind of described it
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to me he's like it's so pretty but like it's
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kind of dark and scary like there's something
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that's like just off about it in a way that I
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like so much and I was like thanks man you get
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me that's that's definitely a good thing in my
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books Absolutely. I love the score. I mean, that's
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how I ended up reaching out to you. Going more
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on that, though, that idea of independent versus
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Hollywood, what are some things you kind of see
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in the independent world as a composer that might
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not be as common in like a large budget production
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like Dune, for example? Well, I would say that
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like you can. There's something about some of
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these scores that I've done where you could certainly
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A, B, my score against Dune and just hear an
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incredible difference and disparity of fidelity
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and volume and spectrum of sound that is just
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leaping out at you. But because there is a lot
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of movies out there where... We're conditioned
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to hear that huge just tidal wave of Hans Zimmer
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coming at you. You kind of just accept it right
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away. As soon as you hear it, you're just like,
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okay, so that's what I'm watching. And it is,
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like, incredible to hear. But perhaps something
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that our ears also, it's not necessarily, like,
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always. are everyone's favorite thing and like
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you don't even need to have a favorite just for
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the variety of it you can have a score that is
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you know smaller and seemingly more intricate
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in all of its idiosyncrasies and um strangeness
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and things that sound like happy mistakes and
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rough around the edges and you end up going through
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those scores with a fine comb and you choose
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which skeletons you're hiding under the closet
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and which you're showing. And in the end, it
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can have a very charming effect. I remember that
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my score for Kid Detective had this sort of effect
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where it was, you know, it sounds like it should
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be maybe done by the big... Henry Mancini band,
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like for real. But it has something a little
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more indie to it that narratively, I think, works
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even better for that story. And so, you know,
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there's a couple projects that I have coming
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up where I know I need to sort of graduate out
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of. indie sound to be able to and and a few projects
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where i thought or i'm thinking like hey if i
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do if this project does come to me i need to
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figure out how to expand and be able to deliver
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the full tidal wave of sound but i don't know
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it's it's certainly really fun to do the very
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bespoke little you know little tiny moves and
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and rough around the edges moves to develop an
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indie score absolutely one thing that i uh little
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detail on your production that i loved was the
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um you have like the tape crackle all over the
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soundtrack of blackberry yeah like little things
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like that really just add so much to the character
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and feel of it yeah yeah and finding the right
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one of those two going through like so many different
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like vinyl hisses and just finding the one that
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just warms the ears even though it's it's just
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noise it's just static and crackle and glitch
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so those are the right one yeah oh wow you just
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yeah and and you build so many like i i uh i
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collected so many samples of things and that's
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just and and yeah just going through all through
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them all it's just a crazy process that I don't
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want to talk about. Is sampling a big part of
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your process generally, or is it just more like
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for this one film? It's mostly for that one film.
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Like, you know, on Nirvana, the band movie that
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I just finished, the score is, you know, very
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on purpose trying to do the Alan Silvestri thing.
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you know, all in the box. Actually, I shouldn't
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say that. There's a lot of real stuff. And I
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have, for the first time, one cue about to be
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done by a whole orchestra in Moscow. So I can't
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wait to finally do that for the first time. But
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that's all traditional orchestra stuff. I have,
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I don't need to like really search for a sound
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that I am thinking in my head doesn't exist.
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And I have to sort of manifest it through creating
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it or just going through samples and building
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it. That was a sort of fun score to just be a
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traditional composer and just choose the right
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notes and really work the orchestration and arrangement
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to sound as legit as I possibly can, just as
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one man and a computer can. That's awesome. Outside
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of the film scoring world, do you have any other
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musical projects you have going on? Yeah, I have
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a record coming out that I co -wrote and produced
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with Amy Milan of Stars and Broken Social Scene.
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And we had a great time making this record. It's
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a big, full journey of sound in this record.
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And it's been a while since I've written some
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pretty standard format of just going for it with
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the pop indie sound. And it was really fun to...
00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:54.879
to be in the world with really talented people
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:59.679
that are a little more just open to the exploratory
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.120
nature of just sound and not sound for picture
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.100
because sound for picture picture takes priority
00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:10.159
like or at least the great the sum of all parts
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.480
takes priority and you need to be ready for a
00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.440
lot of feedback and getting it wrong and wrong
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.419
and wrong till you get it right it's a it's a
00:16:17.419 --> 00:16:19.740
long negotiation with i mean sometimes you're
00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:21.750
out of the gates and it's right but You have
00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:25.629
to be ready for a long negotiation in film scoring.
00:16:26.490 --> 00:16:30.590
And in songwriting, I feel like, at least the
00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:32.590
way I like to work, I don't like a lot of negotiation
00:16:32.590 --> 00:16:35.710
there. I like just trying to pick your team right
00:16:35.710 --> 00:16:41.250
and being in a mode of just expression. And it
00:16:41.250 --> 00:16:44.549
is what it is. And whatever this take was or
00:16:44.549 --> 00:16:47.850
this song, however that happened, is true to
00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:51.500
itself. Cool. Does that project have a name yet
00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:54.179
or anything you could share on that or no? Yeah,
00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:58.200
it's Amy Milan. Amy Milan is the name of the
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:02.820
artist, and she's wonderful, and it was great
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.579
working with her. That comes out, I think, the
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.339
30th of this month or 28th. Oh, super close.
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.539
Yeah, and there's some singles out, so look up
00:17:11.539 --> 00:17:15.000
Amy Milan. It's some great songs. We put a lot
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.529
of love into them. Beautiful. Now, you are also
00:17:18.529 --> 00:17:23.029
a Berklee College of Music grad. I prefer to
00:17:23.029 --> 00:17:25.970
say I attended Berklee College of Music. Okay.
00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:28.990
Awesome. So like John Mayer. I did three years.
00:17:29.250 --> 00:17:31.789
I did three years. That's basically it. That's
00:17:31.789 --> 00:17:34.609
basically it, yeah. When did you leave? 2005.
00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:36.990
And what were you studying while you were there?
00:17:37.549 --> 00:17:41.369
Film scoring. Cool, cool. So you, within two
00:17:41.369 --> 00:17:43.730
years, you started Nirvana the Band, the show,
00:17:43.910 --> 00:17:48.029
the web series. That's right. Wow. And, uh, yeah,
00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:53.349
I, I left Berkeley for the summer and, um, a
00:17:53.349 --> 00:17:56.809
film student at Emerson, uh, Chris Russell was
00:17:56.809 --> 00:18:00.950
his name. He, uh, offered me to do the score
00:18:00.950 --> 00:18:04.690
for his feature, move his first feature. And
00:18:04.690 --> 00:18:06.609
it was really exciting to do like, and it was
00:18:06.609 --> 00:18:09.049
all, it was actually like kind of like a, a,
00:18:09.049 --> 00:18:13.230
a pre cursor, spiritual cursor to, um, kid detective.
00:18:13.349 --> 00:18:16.529
It was a real, it's like a young. detective guy
00:18:16.529 --> 00:18:21.269
going around it was very you know there was some
00:18:21.269 --> 00:18:23.369
more like Mancini elements to that and I got
00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:25.549
to sort of get my feet wet with orchestration
00:18:25.549 --> 00:18:28.789
and I went and I was working on that at home
00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:33.170
and I became a part -time musical director at
00:18:33.170 --> 00:18:36.569
Second City and started working with Matt and
00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:39.170
I basically just was like you know I'm I kind
00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:42.029
of got a head start here just working and so
00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:44.700
I didn't want to go back and just sort of slug
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.200
it out with that last bit of music school. As
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:49.519
we all know, music school is just what you make
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.180
of it. And I did learn, I took a lot from Berkeley.
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.720
The experience is amazing. The people there,
00:18:55.059 --> 00:19:00.019
a lot of talent, and a few just fundamental film
00:19:00.019 --> 00:19:02.099
composing tricks. You know what I mean? Just
00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:05.480
the fundamentals, basically. And some just film
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.880
classes that I'm glad that I absorbed while I
00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:14.349
was there. Awesome. Awesome. I have just one
00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:16.269
simple question left. Where can people find you
00:19:16.269 --> 00:19:18.450
who are interested in following you, your work,
00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:23.809
and your future projects? I primarily just operate
00:19:23.809 --> 00:19:27.609
on Instagram. So just at Jay McCarroll and J
00:19:27.609 --> 00:19:30.710
-A -Y -M -C -C -A -R -R -O -L. And that's where
00:19:30.710 --> 00:19:33.849
I'm just kind of exclusively, that's my marquee
00:19:33.849 --> 00:19:36.509
of news and just what's going on. And we've got
00:19:36.509 --> 00:19:39.009
our Nirvana the Band movie coming out. Got the
00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:42.369
Amy Milan record coming out. A lot of other fun
00:19:42.369 --> 00:19:45.450
things coming down the pipe. It's an exciting
00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.450
time. And as an artist in this world, you always
00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:51.769
kind of feel like you're on borrowed time when
00:19:51.769 --> 00:19:55.990
you're working and putting things out. So just
00:19:55.990 --> 00:20:00.309
happy to be on the current wave right now. Great.
00:20:00.369 --> 00:20:02.369
Thank you so much for your time, Jay. This has
00:20:02.369 --> 00:20:05.990
been great. And hope to chat soon. Thank you,
00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:06.130
Joe.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.980
Hey guys, welcome back to Coffee with Composers.
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.120
I'm Joe Criss, and today's guest is Canadian
00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.559
musician and composer Jay McCarroll. Jay has
00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:09.919
worked on films such as The Kid Detective, last
00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:12.500
year's critically acclaimed Blackberry, and one
00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:14.380
of my favorite films of this year, Hell of a
00:00:14.380 --> 00:00:16.660
Summer. In addition to being a composer, Jay's
00:00:16.660 --> 00:00:19.780
been part of a web series since 2006, which then
00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:22.300
became a sitcom and is now going to be a movie.
00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.960
The web series is called Nirvana The Band The
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.359
Show. Before we start the interview, I do just
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:29.199
want to point out that we have started a mailing
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:31.019
list, and if you are interested in joining the
00:00:31.019 --> 00:00:32.880
mailing list, it is going to be in the show notes,
00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:35.859
so check that out. And we've also launched a
00:00:35.859 --> 00:00:38.659
YouTube channel under my name, Joe Chris, so
00:00:38.659 --> 00:00:40.500
be sure to check that out for some great music
00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:45.359
content. Anyway, let's hop into this. Hey, thanks
00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.079
for joining me today, Jay. One thing that I find
00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:50.579
so interesting about you is you were doing web
00:00:50.579 --> 00:00:52.899
series basically since the start of the YouTube
00:00:52.899 --> 00:00:56.840
era with your friend Matt, on a bunch of projects
00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.299
including two recent ones blackberry and hell
00:00:59.299 --> 00:01:01.479
of a summer how'd you guys meet and how'd you
00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:04.980
get into all this well i'll clarify matt didn't
00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:07.299
have anything to do with hell of a summer um
00:01:07.299 --> 00:01:09.900
i thought he directed that my bad no you know
00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:13.659
who directed that is uh finn wolfhard and billy
00:01:13.659 --> 00:01:17.810
brick who started in it as well Yeah, it was
00:01:17.810 --> 00:01:21.489
their first feature. And they're a bunch of young
00:01:21.489 --> 00:01:24.750
guys who are at the same age as Matt and I when
00:01:24.750 --> 00:01:28.409
we started our web series way back in 2006 when
00:01:28.409 --> 00:01:32.689
web series were just like, what are these? Web
00:01:32.689 --> 00:01:35.430
series? Well, this has got to be terrible then.
00:01:35.549 --> 00:01:41.230
This is just... So, yes, it was... We did feel
00:01:41.230 --> 00:01:44.450
new. The only thing that was giving us a sort
00:01:44.450 --> 00:01:47.900
of North Star... like the whole concept of Nirvana,
00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:49.900
the band, we actually originally wanted to just
00:01:49.900 --> 00:01:53.939
make a short film or a movie. And, uh, we saw
00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:57.900
this web series, Clark and Michael starring Mike,
00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.760
Sarah and Clark Duke. And we're like, you know
00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.719
what this let's just take this exact like template
00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:09.400
of a 10 episode, 10 minute each webisode format.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.060
And let's just do exactly this. Cause we've got
00:02:13.060 --> 00:02:14.780
our own characters. We've got our own ideas.
00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:17.360
And we just started, you know, figuring our way
00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.520
through that just chronologically in time. Like
00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:22.879
we weren't like writing ahead. We were kind of
00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:26.219
just writing the next episode as we went. And
00:02:26.219 --> 00:02:30.060
that's how we kind of found our voice and certainly
00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:36.979
how Matt honed his voice in filmmaking. Awesome.
00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.319
Yeah, a lot of that voice and tone really carried
00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:41.800
over into BlackBerry last year too. Like you
00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:44.530
could really see the parallels in it. Well, it
00:02:44.530 --> 00:02:47.469
was a long journey. It was it was from the web
00:02:47.469 --> 00:02:51.689
series and then to Matt's two first features
00:02:51.689 --> 00:02:55.069
were also done sort of very found footage style.
00:02:55.789 --> 00:02:58.629
And then to our TV show, which sort of elevated
00:02:58.629 --> 00:03:02.550
it again, where we sort of were refining and
00:03:02.550 --> 00:03:05.810
getting our like really starting to understand
00:03:05.810 --> 00:03:09.289
and articulate what the technique was of that
00:03:09.289 --> 00:03:13.860
filmmaking. And then. BlackBerry was the challenge
00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:17.000
to sort of say, how do we do this and make it
00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:20.860
look like a movie and not like found footage?
00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:24.080
But using all the same principles of foreground,
00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.219
private moments, distance, far at the end of
00:03:27.219 --> 00:03:30.360
the lens, using Zoom to really meet a character's
00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:32.620
performance halfway. There's a lot of little
00:03:32.620 --> 00:03:35.680
techniques that we were very self -aware of at
00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:39.419
that point. Awesome, awesome. In BlackBerry,
00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:43.659
how did you sort of... approach that modern like
00:03:43.659 --> 00:03:46.340
late 90s feel but still keep it kind of contemporary
00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:52.259
in sound in the score um a lot of it was just
00:03:52.259 --> 00:03:56.800
um a reaction to as i was building my template
00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:01.620
of sounds and just kind of um experimenting with
00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:04.219
just starting to build my template i would just
00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:09.770
find something that evoked something 90s anything
00:04:09.770 --> 00:04:13.909
90s and it would just become a piece like I would
00:04:13.909 --> 00:04:15.590
just kind of leave that track with that instrument
00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:18.050
there call it something and then I would build
00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:20.769
my template that way and then it seemed for for
00:04:20.769 --> 00:04:22.649
a lot of weeks I was just doing a lot of very
00:04:22.649 --> 00:04:27.290
free experimentation I'd throw some dailies up
00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:31.850
to just kind of look at and try and I went far
00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:35.310
in different directions and I remember there
00:04:35.310 --> 00:04:39.870
was just a certain point after maybe a little
00:04:39.870 --> 00:04:41.970
bit after principal photography was done and
00:04:41.970 --> 00:04:45.170
i was sending some uh some demos and stuff to
00:04:45.170 --> 00:04:48.430
our editors and they wrote back after just one
00:04:48.430 --> 00:04:52.069
particular big batch of like demo songs and they're
00:04:52.069 --> 00:04:55.350
like wow like it really feels like you've found
00:04:55.350 --> 00:04:58.730
the sound and i didn't even realize it and then
00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:01.050
i kind of took a step back and said okay if this
00:05:01.050 --> 00:05:04.189
is getting the sort of reaction then i can start
00:05:04.189 --> 00:05:08.319
to refine um I can start to put my guardrails
00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.120
around this sound, and I started to understand
00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.319
what my boundaries were of the whole spectrum
00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.660
of it. And from then on, it was like a downhill
00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:20.360
sprint. Awesome. Do you usually like to come
00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:22.620
on to a project earlier like that, or do you
00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:25.800
tend to get in pretty late? Honestly, I'd love
00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:32.279
to sort of have the rule that I've heard is a
00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.160
very... tried, tested, and true rule from film
00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:37.779
composers where they say, I'm not writing a note
00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:41.800
until I have picture lock. And I'll just watch
00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.720
the whole movie fresh, done, and it'll speak
00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:50.779
to me. And I see that process as being really
00:05:50.779 --> 00:05:55.120
exciting and inspiring. And I just haven't been
00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:58.500
able to do it because with the few directors
00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:02.649
that I have worked with, I think maybe we end
00:06:02.649 --> 00:06:04.750
up getting into a lot of conversations. They
00:06:04.750 --> 00:06:07.970
let me into some of the filmmaking, and I'm very
00:06:07.970 --> 00:06:10.930
inquisitive about how it's being shot and what's
00:06:10.930 --> 00:06:15.670
happening. And it just so happens that we just
00:06:15.670 --> 00:06:18.509
start talking about trying stuff, and I just
00:06:18.509 --> 00:06:21.490
end up getting started. And it's probably for
00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:23.829
the better, so it doesn't all bottleneck at the
00:06:23.829 --> 00:06:27.389
end. But I'm still looking forward to a project
00:06:27.389 --> 00:06:30.519
where I can just... That's what John Williams
00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:32.040
talks about all the time. He's like, I don't
00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:35.019
like to read the script. I like to just watch
00:06:35.019 --> 00:06:38.740
it, and it'll speak to me. It sounds really nice.
00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.000
Awesome, awesome. On Hell of a Summer, did you
00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.180
come in towards the end? I guess you didn't come
00:06:46.180 --> 00:06:47.519
in when you had a locked cup, but how did that
00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:49.740
process go, especially navigating that sort of
00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:55.300
horror -comedy divide? Again, I started sending
00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:58.810
some ideas to Finn and Billy. uh, pretty early.
00:06:58.970 --> 00:07:02.410
And, uh, and they're very good at, at sort of
00:07:02.410 --> 00:07:04.689
being opinionated about like where they wanted
00:07:04.689 --> 00:07:07.670
to go with it. And they had, what's, what's impressive
00:07:07.670 --> 00:07:12.110
about those guys is that they have this, this
00:07:12.110 --> 00:07:16.029
kind of charming voice of, of comedy. And maybe,
00:07:16.149 --> 00:07:18.470
maybe you can call it dark comedy, but it's certainly
00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:22.889
their own, uh, brand that they're honing in on.
00:07:23.050 --> 00:07:26.310
And so they're really good with each other about,
00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:29.959
um, you know process of elimination of just like
00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:32.399
what works what doesn't they might not explain
00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:34.600
exactly what it is but they know what they don't
00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:37.480
want it to be and that's something that i i have
00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:39.199
a lot in common with them with the way matt and
00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:42.300
i worked a lot of process of elimination where
00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:44.879
we don't we agree more about what we don't want
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.860
it to be than what we want it to be and that
00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:50.639
can sort of just start at least giving you some
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:55.189
direction um Interesting. Were there any scores
00:07:55.189 --> 00:07:57.589
in particular you were trying to lean into for
00:07:57.589 --> 00:08:01.290
references on that one? Yeah, I mean, they did
00:08:01.290 --> 00:08:05.149
have some references that they sent me, but it
00:08:05.149 --> 00:08:09.149
was, again, pretty wide. It didn't necessarily
00:08:09.149 --> 00:08:12.709
point to something so specifically. The way they
00:08:12.709 --> 00:08:14.930
shot it and the way it looked, it certainly was
00:08:14.930 --> 00:08:21.620
lending itself more to certain directions. the
00:08:21.620 --> 00:08:24.000
moment I started just finding the right balance
00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:29.500
of old school synth, like carpentry stuff, but
00:08:29.500 --> 00:08:33.139
also kind of trying to give it that modern cinematic
00:08:33.139 --> 00:08:39.700
lift where it needs. But, you know, when you
00:08:39.700 --> 00:08:43.259
talk about independent scoring versus maybe the
00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:46.200
bigger studio picture scoring, this is certainly,
00:08:46.340 --> 00:08:50.659
I think. An example of that independent stuff
00:08:50.659 --> 00:08:58.299
where there's so much little tiny bespoke ways
00:08:58.299 --> 00:09:02.200
that this score was made. It is the sum of all
00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:06.720
of its little tiny pieces that were coming from
00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:11.139
a lot of different places. I feel like we were
00:09:11.139 --> 00:09:16.059
kind of honing in on what it was for a long time.
00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:20.940
And they were very opinionated about it and we
00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:24.700
chipped away at it until it got to just the right
00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:29.580
amount of sort of like dreadful fun that sort
00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:34.919
of in a weird way just sort of worked with it.
00:09:35.019 --> 00:09:38.080
I was just with Fred Hechinger who starred in
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:43.009
it. We were on set of a movie that... Finn and
00:09:43.009 --> 00:09:45.669
Billy are in again and Fred was visiting and
00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:47.549
I was visiting and I hadn't seen Fred in a while
00:09:47.549 --> 00:09:49.710
and he said to me he's like oh dude the score
00:09:49.710 --> 00:09:54.149
it's so it's so like he kind of described it
00:09:54.149 --> 00:09:56.950
to me he's like it's so pretty but like it's
00:09:56.950 --> 00:09:59.549
kind of dark and scary like there's something
00:09:59.549 --> 00:10:02.210
that's like just off about it in a way that I
00:10:02.210 --> 00:10:04.909
like so much and I was like thanks man you get
00:10:04.909 --> 00:10:09.529
me that's that's definitely a good thing in my
00:10:09.529 --> 00:10:12.500
books Absolutely. I love the score. I mean, that's
00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:15.500
how I ended up reaching out to you. Going more
00:10:15.500 --> 00:10:18.100
on that, though, that idea of independent versus
00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:21.179
Hollywood, what are some things you kind of see
00:10:21.179 --> 00:10:23.860
in the independent world as a composer that might
00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:26.940
not be as common in like a large budget production
00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:33.820
like Dune, for example? Well, I would say that
00:10:33.820 --> 00:10:38.220
like you can. There's something about some of
00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:41.860
these scores that I've done where you could certainly
00:10:41.860 --> 00:10:46.659
A, B, my score against Dune and just hear an
00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:50.200
incredible difference and disparity of fidelity
00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:54.139
and volume and spectrum of sound that is just
00:10:54.139 --> 00:11:00.200
leaping out at you. But because there is a lot
00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.960
of movies out there where... We're conditioned
00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.179
to hear that huge just tidal wave of Hans Zimmer
00:11:07.179 --> 00:11:10.460
coming at you. You kind of just accept it right
00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:12.419
away. As soon as you hear it, you're just like,
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.340
okay, so that's what I'm watching. And it is,
00:11:16.340 --> 00:11:21.659
like, incredible to hear. But perhaps something
00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.779
that our ears also, it's not necessarily, like,
00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.480
always. are everyone's favorite thing and like
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.700
you don't even need to have a favorite just for
00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:35.299
the variety of it you can have a score that is
00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:39.279
you know smaller and seemingly more intricate
00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.779
in all of its idiosyncrasies and um strangeness
00:11:43.779 --> 00:11:47.399
and things that sound like happy mistakes and
00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:51.320
rough around the edges and you end up going through
00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:53.259
those scores with a fine comb and you choose
00:11:54.090 --> 00:11:57.149
which skeletons you're hiding under the closet
00:11:57.149 --> 00:12:01.070
and which you're showing. And in the end, it
00:12:01.070 --> 00:12:06.149
can have a very charming effect. I remember that
00:12:06.149 --> 00:12:10.289
my score for Kid Detective had this sort of effect
00:12:10.289 --> 00:12:17.850
where it was, you know, it sounds like it should
00:12:17.850 --> 00:12:22.500
be maybe done by the big... Henry Mancini band,
00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:27.240
like for real. But it has something a little
00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:32.120
more indie to it that narratively, I think, works
00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:36.519
even better for that story. And so, you know,
00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.039
there's a couple projects that I have coming
00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:44.120
up where I know I need to sort of graduate out
00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.379
of. indie sound to be able to and and a few projects
00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:50.480
where i thought or i'm thinking like hey if i
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.259
do if this project does come to me i need to
00:12:53.259 --> 00:12:57.279
figure out how to expand and be able to deliver
00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:02.100
the full tidal wave of sound but i don't know
00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.340
it's it's certainly really fun to do the very
00:13:04.340 --> 00:13:08.120
bespoke little you know little tiny moves and
00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.120
and rough around the edges moves to develop an
00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:15.000
indie score absolutely one thing that i uh little
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.080
detail on your production that i loved was the
00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:19.279
um you have like the tape crackle all over the
00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:22.000
soundtrack of blackberry yeah like little things
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.320
like that really just add so much to the character
00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.000
and feel of it yeah yeah and finding the right
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.259
one of those two going through like so many different
00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:34.019
like vinyl hisses and just finding the one that
00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:38.019
just warms the ears even though it's it's just
00:13:38.019 --> 00:13:40.700
noise it's just static and crackle and glitch
00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:45.669
so those are the right one yeah oh wow you just
00:13:45.669 --> 00:13:51.350
yeah and and you build so many like i i uh i
00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:56.509
collected so many samples of things and that's
00:13:56.509 --> 00:14:00.409
just and and yeah just going through all through
00:14:00.409 --> 00:14:04.259
them all it's just a crazy process that I don't
00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:07.940
want to talk about. Is sampling a big part of
00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:09.940
your process generally, or is it just more like
00:14:09.940 --> 00:14:13.399
for this one film? It's mostly for that one film.
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.879
Like, you know, on Nirvana, the band movie that
00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:24.419
I just finished, the score is, you know, very
00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:28.539
on purpose trying to do the Alan Silvestri thing.
00:14:29.259 --> 00:14:32.159
you know, all in the box. Actually, I shouldn't
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:33.679
say that. There's a lot of real stuff. And I
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:36.379
have, for the first time, one cue about to be
00:14:36.379 --> 00:14:40.100
done by a whole orchestra in Moscow. So I can't
00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.419
wait to finally do that for the first time. But
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:46.220
that's all traditional orchestra stuff. I have,
00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:49.960
I don't need to like really search for a sound
00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:52.259
that I am thinking in my head doesn't exist.
00:14:52.460 --> 00:14:54.480
And I have to sort of manifest it through creating
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.799
it or just going through samples and building
00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:01.409
it. That was a sort of fun score to just be a
00:15:01.409 --> 00:15:05.509
traditional composer and just choose the right
00:15:05.509 --> 00:15:08.190
notes and really work the orchestration and arrangement
00:15:08.190 --> 00:15:13.110
to sound as legit as I possibly can, just as
00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:17.090
one man and a computer can. That's awesome. Outside
00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:19.350
of the film scoring world, do you have any other
00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:23.980
musical projects you have going on? Yeah, I have
00:15:23.980 --> 00:15:26.779
a record coming out that I co -wrote and produced
00:15:26.779 --> 00:15:30.559
with Amy Milan of Stars and Broken Social Scene.
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:35.259
And we had a great time making this record. It's
00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:39.340
a big, full journey of sound in this record.
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.179
And it's been a while since I've written some
00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:47.120
pretty standard format of just going for it with
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.200
the pop indie sound. And it was really fun to...
00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:54.879
to be in the world with really talented people
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:59.679
that are a little more just open to the exploratory
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.120
nature of just sound and not sound for picture
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.100
because sound for picture picture takes priority
00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:10.159
like or at least the great the sum of all parts
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.480
takes priority and you need to be ready for a
00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.440
lot of feedback and getting it wrong and wrong
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.419
and wrong till you get it right it's a it's a
00:16:17.419 --> 00:16:19.740
long negotiation with i mean sometimes you're
00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:21.750
out of the gates and it's right but You have
00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:25.629
to be ready for a long negotiation in film scoring.
00:16:26.490 --> 00:16:30.590
And in songwriting, I feel like, at least the
00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:32.590
way I like to work, I don't like a lot of negotiation
00:16:32.590 --> 00:16:35.710
there. I like just trying to pick your team right
00:16:35.710 --> 00:16:41.250
and being in a mode of just expression. And it
00:16:41.250 --> 00:16:44.549
is what it is. And whatever this take was or
00:16:44.549 --> 00:16:47.850
this song, however that happened, is true to
00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:51.500
itself. Cool. Does that project have a name yet
00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:54.179
or anything you could share on that or no? Yeah,
00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:58.200
it's Amy Milan. Amy Milan is the name of the
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:02.820
artist, and she's wonderful, and it was great
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.579
working with her. That comes out, I think, the
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.339
30th of this month or 28th. Oh, super close.
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.539
Yeah, and there's some singles out, so look up
00:17:11.539 --> 00:17:15.000
Amy Milan. It's some great songs. We put a lot
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.529
of love into them. Beautiful. Now, you are also
00:17:18.529 --> 00:17:23.029
a Berklee College of Music grad. I prefer to
00:17:23.029 --> 00:17:25.970
say I attended Berklee College of Music. Okay.
00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:28.990
Awesome. So like John Mayer. I did three years.
00:17:29.250 --> 00:17:31.789
I did three years. That's basically it. That's
00:17:31.789 --> 00:17:34.609
basically it, yeah. When did you leave? 2005.
00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:36.990
And what were you studying while you were there?
00:17:37.549 --> 00:17:41.369
Film scoring. Cool, cool. So you, within two
00:17:41.369 --> 00:17:43.730
years, you started Nirvana the Band, the show,
00:17:43.910 --> 00:17:48.029
the web series. That's right. Wow. And, uh, yeah,
00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:53.349
I, I left Berkeley for the summer and, um, a
00:17:53.349 --> 00:17:56.809
film student at Emerson, uh, Chris Russell was
00:17:56.809 --> 00:18:00.950
his name. He, uh, offered me to do the score
00:18:00.950 --> 00:18:04.690
for his feature, move his first feature. And
00:18:04.690 --> 00:18:06.609
it was really exciting to do like, and it was
00:18:06.609 --> 00:18:09.049
all, it was actually like kind of like a, a,
00:18:09.049 --> 00:18:13.230
a pre cursor, spiritual cursor to, um, kid detective.
00:18:13.349 --> 00:18:16.529
It was a real, it's like a young. detective guy
00:18:16.529 --> 00:18:21.269
going around it was very you know there was some
00:18:21.269 --> 00:18:23.369
more like Mancini elements to that and I got
00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:25.549
to sort of get my feet wet with orchestration
00:18:25.549 --> 00:18:28.789
and I went and I was working on that at home
00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:33.170
and I became a part -time musical director at
00:18:33.170 --> 00:18:36.569
Second City and started working with Matt and
00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:39.170
I basically just was like you know I'm I kind
00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:42.029
of got a head start here just working and so
00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:44.700
I didn't want to go back and just sort of slug
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.200
it out with that last bit of music school. As
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:49.519
we all know, music school is just what you make
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.180
of it. And I did learn, I took a lot from Berkeley.
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.720
The experience is amazing. The people there,
00:18:55.059 --> 00:19:00.019
a lot of talent, and a few just fundamental film
00:19:00.019 --> 00:19:02.099
composing tricks. You know what I mean? Just
00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:05.480
the fundamentals, basically. And some just film
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.880
classes that I'm glad that I absorbed while I
00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:14.349
was there. Awesome. Awesome. I have just one
00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:16.269
simple question left. Where can people find you
00:19:16.269 --> 00:19:18.450
who are interested in following you, your work,
00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:23.809
and your future projects? I primarily just operate
00:19:23.809 --> 00:19:27.609
on Instagram. So just at Jay McCarroll and J
00:19:27.609 --> 00:19:30.710
-A -Y -M -C -C -A -R -R -O -L. And that's where
00:19:30.710 --> 00:19:33.849
I'm just kind of exclusively, that's my marquee
00:19:33.849 --> 00:19:36.509
of news and just what's going on. And we've got
00:19:36.509 --> 00:19:39.009
our Nirvana the Band movie coming out. Got the
00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:42.369
Amy Milan record coming out. A lot of other fun
00:19:42.369 --> 00:19:45.450
things coming down the pipe. It's an exciting
00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.450
time. And as an artist in this world, you always
00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:51.769
kind of feel like you're on borrowed time when
00:19:51.769 --> 00:19:55.990
you're working and putting things out. So just
00:19:55.990 --> 00:20:00.309
happy to be on the current wave right now. Great.
00:20:00.369 --> 00:20:02.369
Thank you so much for your time, Jay. This has
00:20:02.369 --> 00:20:05.990
been great. And hope to chat soon. Thank you,
00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:06.130
Joe.
