Plant Spirits, Divination, and Everyday Witchcraft with Leandra Witchwood

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you look at my blends I have some crazy blends like cherry star anise and chili stuff you wouldn't think would work but through this relationship through this pairing of science and witchcraft I am able to come up with these blends or be taught by the plants how to blend these in in balance so that they all kind of work together so they have their medicinal benefit they have their spiritual benefit but then they taste good and that's one of my beliefs if if the medicine quote unquote medicine isn't going to taste good you're not going to take it welcome to coffee and divination a podcast about the arts of obtaining hidden knowledge in changing times join me Joanna Ferrar to chat with experts from around the world on tarot runes geomancy and the many ways divination can help us navigate and plan our paths ahead my guest on today's show is Leandra Witchwood Leandra is a modern witch herbalist and founder of the Magic Kitchen podcast she is based in South Central PA she's also the author of many books on witchcraft and shadow work and she leads women's circles rituals and a number of transformative workshops Leandre is also a business witch with over 20 years of experience she's a master herbalist and reiki master she hand blends intentional teas at the Witchwood Tea House and we speak about those teas on this show to the Rebel Mystic Coven Leandra mentor seekers in folk and shamanic witchcraft shadow work breath work and connecting with divine wild spirits you can find more about her at her website Leandra witchwood dot com and it was a fascinating conversation we spoke about a number of different forms of divination and the act of connecting with land spirits for her work as an herbalist and also in the work of shadow work and magic itself before we get into the conversation a few quick announcements if you're listening to this episode as it comes out on August 31st my guest has a number of classes and offerings happening very soon including shadow work magic and building a deeply integrated witchcraft business practice both Leandra and I of course will be at Temple Fest so we'll see some of you there if you're going to be there please come find us and say hello we really love to talk to people who know us through our work online and if you're listening to this much later of course Leandra I'm sure will have more things coming up which you can find on her site one last note thank you so much to the people who have sent me messages about my book and of course I love getting messages about the show itself remember that reviews that are found on Apple Podcast or where you bought my book are really crucial to other people finding the work so thank you for those as well and and of course I'm always happy to talk to people over on my Instagram at coffee and divination and you can check out the website WWW dot coffee and divination.com for more on the courses that are gonna be coming up and other offerings so now let's dive into this conversation on pendulums and spirit communication divination and a lot more with Leandra so it is my pleasure to have on the show today uh someone who I've been excited to have as a guest for a while now Leandra Witchwood so thank you so much for being here yeah thank you for having me I'm excited to be here too I love I love sitting down and talking with you it's always a great conversation so we got to sit down and talk for the first time back at Sacred Space uh last last year so that was very exciting to meet you then I can't believe how long ago that feels so this has been a long time coming um we have a traditional first question on the show which is what was your first experience or exposure to divination and that doesn't necessarily mean that you were practicing it it could be that you had like a family member or a friend that had a pack of cards that they read with or you were fascinated with astrology or you didn't do any of this until you were an adult uh there is you know many different ways to answer that trying to think back because I was I was a weird child who was constantly right who was constantly like going out and pretending I was a witch before I even understood what that meant so I I didn't know I what I was doing I didn't know that this is what was a thing but I would go out and I would collect sticks I would collect rocks I would collect little shiny things um I even found chicken bones and I would throw them didn't know what I was doing didn't know that was a thing just thought it felt cool hahaha and I would do it for my friends so there was a little like alcove in my yard that was very secluded so it had lots of bushes and it was just carved out enough where there was like enough dirt for like 3 or four kids to sit like like think 10 year olds right and so there was enough dirt there and I would I would throw these bones and pretend like I was you know sooth saying hahaha and yeah I think that you know unknowingly was my first exposure to some sort of divination even though I had no clue but um later when of course I started educating myself I started reading books I started attending classes circles that sort of thing I saw someone else doing it and of course they had more intricate things or more beautiful things they had beads they had bones they had coins she even had little pieces of cloth which were interesting I've never seen that before again but when she would throw them however they would land of course that's the the reading and I was blown away I'm like wait a minute I've been doing this since I was a kid no I love it how how it kind of stitches together and becomes oh this is the path you were always meant to be yes you were just attempting it before you had someone to teach you teach me what those things were that you were throwing but yeah no that's that's really fascinating um so you mentioned being a weird kid that is a very much a running theme for people who generally come on this show and I'm sure on yours as well so from being the weird kid being a witch in the woods where like when did you turn that how did that come to be from there into what you would consider practicing witchcraft it was a long road so I've been actively practicing for about 30 years and it's been a long road because when I first started it was it was one of those things where I didn't I again I didn't realize I was on this path I didn't realize where I was going with it I was trying to find a I was leaving Christianity because I was I grew up in the church I was leaving Christianity so I was you know late teens I started seeing the hypocrisy my my intuition that I had been stamping down since I was a child was ramping up for some reason and I was starting to see things that the rest of the people around me couldn't see and I really think this is where also my my shadow work journey started because I started to really understand that there are beliefs in this world that don't align even with the belief itself or or actions in this world that don't align with the belief so I mean that's a whole other rabbit hole but when I started leaving the church I started doing research I'm like okay I I need a faith I I need some I need to feel like I belong to something bigger than me I feel like there is something else out there that can guide me teach me that aligns with my core beliefs which was nature and my intuition and understanding myself to the core not just superficial oh I I know what I wanna do in this world I I have goals I wanna be you know aligning my identity with my career or whatever that might look in the typical sense what what we're told to believe act feel and express in this world so I started doing a lot of research and my sister and I were kind of on a parallel journey we were both searching for something and she's she's 12 years older than me so she's quite she's got a lot more traction in life than I did and this is the funny story that I like to tell because it it wasn't funny at the time but it's funny now so we were both researching going to the library and of course this is you know 90s where you don't have the internet yet it's just budding it's it's a baby baby thing yet AOL wasn't really in a thing yet and um so we would you know we would go buy books or we'd go to the bookstore and read books we'd go to the library check out books and we would read everything from Taoism to Buddhism to you name it just whatever we could get our hands on and in about a year of searching in into my adult years um my sister and I were talking about it we're coming home from the grocery store we just had a whole we have a whole car load full of groceries coming home from the grocery store and we were talking about like there's just doesn't seem to be anything out there that aligns with what we believe and then she said well what about Wicca and I'm like what the hell is Wicca and hahaha and keep in mind I'm still I'm still detoxing I'm still coming out of the Christian mindset where everything's demonic everything's satanic and everything's evil and if you and one of the reasons I left the church was because of this mindset because of what they were teaching us that if they don't align with how we believe they are evil they need to be eradicated and that felt so wrong to me so I'm coming off of that I'm coming away from that so driving home groceries in the car perishables you know all the all the fun stuff and I started listening to her about her describing Wicca and I'm like that sounds like witchcraft hahaha that's devil worship and as soon as she stopped the car I got out of the car slam the door stormed into the house left the groceries and I don't think I talked to her for like I don't know a couple of hours until I finally settled down and that's I think that's what really started my investigation because typical me I I rant about something but then I calm down and I start I start really looking at it I start questioning it I start educating myself on the possibility of it of maybe it's not so bad and so I started doing my own research and um it kind of snowballed from there I was able to find this was in California at the time so there were a lot more groups available than where I'm at now in south central Pennsylvania where it's you know we're here we're around but we have to kind of be quiet and um so I was able to find some groups to work with public ceremonies pagan pride days that sort of thing and I started and I started practicing from there and I started with a very ceremonial background so think very much high magic ceremonial Wicca you you wear the garb you have the tools you call the quarters you cast the circle you you know chalice blade the whole thing the whole nines and at some point it started to become exhausting to me it started becoming pomp and circumstance to me and it didn't it wasn't aligning anymore I Learned I Learned the discipline from it that's that's where the real takeaway I took from it is it taught me discipline it taught me to show up for my craft it taught me to show up for myself for my faith and probably about 10 years in that's when I started transitioning to more of a folk style more of a maybe even you can consider it a shamanic style cause that is some of my training and it's it's definitely more off the cuff now more everyday just very relaxed very casual but effective and that's what I Learned is that I didn't need these high magic rituals that I where I had to memorize all of these incantations and lines and um to make my magic effective so I mean that's in a nutshell that's my uh my big journey yup yup now that's beautiful and I I I like that piece of there's a lot of different ways that our pads morph over the years some people can start more from the folk side and end up loving the ceremonial or you know vice versa so it it can go in a lot of different directions when we allow that change to occur and don't try to hang on too hard to older versions of what we what we thought so you use a number of different words to describe uh yourself and we have we have spoken about well witch obviously and uh different forms of magic and how you got there there is a term that you use to describe yourself wartcunner could you maybe tell us a little bit about that cause I think that will then lead us into some plant things as well but what is that word and why do you why do you use that one in one of the traditions I am trained in one of the ceremonial traditions we would use plants to connect with deity to connect with ourselves to connect with the earth to connect with land spirits the spirit of the plant and part of our tradition was you had to go through a ceremony where you became touched by the spirit of a plant and that is how you gained the title wortcunner and this wasn't just oh you go in the forest and you have a conversation with a tree it was deeper than that it was it um included shamanic journeying um using plant medicines altered state of consciousness and going through your shadows and of course my my high priestess at the time didn't use shadow work she didn't call it shadow work but it was addressing the things that block you addressing the thing the identity that blocks you the narratives in your head that loop so when when I use the the term the the title wartcutter it is directly related to that initiation that ceremonial initiation where I took the time to be silent with plants to do the ceremonies in safe environments of course we always had Protection we always had backups and safety protocols um because some of the work we did was with poison plants it's not something I recommend somebody do without this kind of supervision hahaha it's not it's not a safe practice and and that's kind of the point is becoming a work counter is not a safe practice you are working with the deep innards of your psyche but you're also working with you're you're peering through the veil you're parting that veil and you're working with the plant spirit itself so you have to part of the process is learning to identify is it the plant spirit or is it the deva protecting the plant spirit cause there's two of them that exist and often when you're coming to in contact with the plant spirit it's not it's the deva it is the protector it is the the steward of that plant and to get to the core of that plant and I did it through belladonna and she was she cracked me open it was it was a terrifying experience I will not sugarcoat that it was a terrifying experience but when I came out on the other side I was changed I was transformed and of course now I have figured out how to lead my students through that kind of transformation without ingesting dangerous plants but we still work with the energy we still we call that in we call in that energy and you can't effectively do that at least in my tradition you can't effectively call in that plant energy if you don't understand that plant's energy if you've never fully and intimately connected with that plant energy you've never seen her face you've never smelled her essence outside of the physical world type thing and so work Connor in my tradition directly reflects that passage that rite of passage to know the plant to be to be touched by the spirit of the plant and that's literally what that means work honor so that is you know to some people that is related to herbalism but clearly is different from what someone might think of as true herbalism in what ways would you say that they are similar or can you give us some of the like the ways that you distinguish that or how do they interrelate for me they interrelate because the plant teaches me so in me getting to know the true essence of the plant so in in the Witchwood Tea House where I blend teas this is how I blend teas I get to know the plant spirit that I'm working with of course I you know I have my my vitalist herbalist background I have my certifications that tells me the clinical side of it this is the spiritual side of it where and this is how I mesh them so the clinical side is telling me what is safe what ratios to use what plants are good for this that or the other thing more the allopathic style um herbalism that we typically run into you have a cough go get some usnea or go get some mullein you know it's it's that allopathic knowledge here's the symptom here's the cure right where the work hunter side of it is knowing that the plants so intimately that they speak to me and that might sound cuckoo bananas but hear me out not on this show not on this show so when I'm speaking to a plant I'm I so I don't do is there video because right behind me is my blending room there is video a lot of people will be listening but you know so that's okay well for those who are pointing to the wall behind me hahaha the on the other side of that wall is my blending room so in that room I have 200+ herbs and that's where I do my blending that's where I sit with the herbs that's where I commune with them that's where I ask them who wants to be part of X y Z blend that I'm creating now I from my clinical side I will know what the base is I will know who needs to be there what what plants need to be the base of it so if if I'm doing a a anti inflammatory blend okay so my base is going to be anti inflammatory herbs two or three that I really really know that I want to be part of this then I sit with the herbs that would compliment that and this is where I'm mixing the spiritual and like more shamanic style of it with my clinical more um scientific knowledge of herbs I am taking both of those and so maybe chamomile will say hey you know what I might do some good in that okay cool come on down who else wants to come through and as I start blending I start reaching out to the herbs and they're responding to me then I start creating these blends and if you go to the Tea House the Witchwood Tea House dot com and you look at my blends I have some crazy blends like um cherry star anise and chili stuff you wouldn't think would work but through this relationship through this pairing of science and witchcraft I am able to come up with these blends or be taught by the plants how to blend these in in balance so that they all kind of work together so they have their medicinal benefit they have their spiritual benefit but then they taste good and that's one of my beliefs if if the medicine quote unquote medicine isn't going to taste good you're not gonna take it you're gonna avoid that so I was about to ask you what some of the combinations were that were surprising to you when you had these conversations I feel like you've already given us one example is there any other particular example of a time when you have had conversations when you've sat down to do that fully so here we go down another rabbit hole some of the work I do is with dragon energy so dragon ley lines dragon um constellations that sort of thing and one of my very first blends that I created is Dragon Fire and I'm actually using this at Temple Fest in the Dragon Fire Rite that I'm going to offer to everybody I'm so excited for it so when I sat down with these herbs I already knew that the base was gonna be black tea I already knew that easy peasy right that's basic but then I'm like okay I want something that's I want something that's like cinnamon and orange but it's gotta be different like it's gotta have a little something extra and that's when chili was like hey over here hahaha and I was like you gotta be kidding me no way I'm like okay I'll try it and and that's and that's really the the key there working with these plants when they tell you something cuckoo bananas hahaha something off the wall you just kind of gotta roll with it try it see what happens so I did so I blended the black tea I blended the orange I blended the cinnamon and then I put some of the chili in there and it's amazing and a lot of people when they first try it they're like this isn't gonna like burn my mouth is it I'm like no what happens is you get a nice warming in the back of your throat so you feel this warmth start to just encapsulate your body and it's so soothing and it's invigorating at the same time so it's a really good tea for the morning when you're trying to wake yourself up you're trying to wake up your voice you're trying to wake up your mind and that one really surprised me so of course once I did that I was like okay tell me more show me more let's do more absolutely yeah so that is kind of the the responsibility of blending the things that allopathically or you know through our training and our techniques we gain that information about the plants but then there's the listening portion so for people who may not have a lot of experience with this obviously you teach this stuff so stuff in the show notes about what you teach and how to learn from you but if you were to talk to people about you know if they were curious about connecting with a plant but they're not quite as experienced how do you recommend that people do that and what do you say this is potentially a second question but I'll just layer it in right away what do you say to people who who might be concerned that they would layer in their own projections onto a plant you know that that discernment piece especially if somebody is starting out yeah valid absolutely valid and questioning that is the first step to not doing it if that makes sense if you become aware of yourself enough to question yourself OK is this me or is this the plant then you're on the right path you're on the right trajectory for me getting over my projections and I I think it it really it it boils down to some of the similar techniques you might use for divination and how to ensure that you're not projecting into the reading your own prejudices viewpoints opinions that type of thing it boils down to listening deep and that is such a hard thing for us in our culture because we're taught to listen so that we can retort or respond we're not taught to listen deeply to truly hear what is being said and just like other divination practices it's not always gonna come as somebody speaking to you words being used it might be colors might be sensations it might be an emotion it might be a song that comes into your head that is on repeat and you can't get rid of it it's first knowing yourself knowing what you might interject or project knowing what that could be and then of course journaling it questioning it okay am I am I really is this really what it's supposed to be but then try it see what happens you know if you're if you're getting a message from a plant like of course not harmful stuff cause I've never ever ever never ever ever had a plant ever tell me to do something harmful if anything they're warning me cautioning me caring for me so what I would do if someone is questioning if it's the plant or if it's them their voice is try it see what happens because sometimes especially if we're in if we're in a state of high cortisol stress survival mode if that's our our default mode we're gonna have a harder time with our intuition our it's gonna look differently for a while until you can calm that part of yourself down and again going back to shadow work that is one of the big things I recommend for witches is it required no is it necessary I think so haha because it helps us understand ourselves it's one of those we can't really technically require it but I kind of feel like the universe requires it so it does it's on the required course list whether we want it to be there or not we want it there or not yes and it goes back to those lessons that we refuse to learn when we refuse to learn a lesson what's gonna happen eventually the the universe is going to bonk you on the head with it so hard that you have no you you have no other option other than to pay attention to change the behavior to change the mindset to change the pattern and that right there is shadow work we can do this the easy way or we can do this the harder way and sadly sometimes we we each need it a little bit stronger of a lesson before we can sit down so yeah those of us who are stubborn what I don't know what you're talking about um so you have actually a course on shadow work uh coming up probably when this releases almost immediately uh so there might be some time for people to get in so when you are when you are thinking about shadow work and you can we've already tied it into divination I'm sure we will talk more about divination I have more questions on that a little later down the line but are there any particular signs or things that you think people don't recognize as elements of shadow work kind of trying to come to the fore or do you think that there are ways that shadow work is misunderstood that you'd be like actually that's not shadow work that's something else you know what I mean because that's a it's a term that's getting thrown around a lot these days it does yeah so typically when you see shadow work thrown around on social media or wherever it's surface level stuff when I work with witches specifically on shadow work we're even if I don't intend it to go deep we're going deep I'm asking the deeper questions because that's that's my default I I I can't help it hahaha I try I try to make it light but um shadow work isn't if if shadow work isn't uncomfortable you're not doing it right and I think that's one of the biggest things that were sold when somebody is advertising a new shadow work journal or their prompt vault or whatever it might be when I do shadow work with myself and with other witches we're we're going to focus first on one thing what what is the one change you need in your life and then we're going to break that down to well what is the pattern that's upholding that and this is the uncomfortable part I'm asking them to look at how are they perpetuating their misery how what is the narrative you're holding that is making you sick that is making you crazy that is keeping you locked into this pattern that you can't get out of that is sabotaging your craft your finances your friendships whatever it might be and this is why shadow work is difficult because we're taking a deep look at ourselves and that's scary for a lot of people but I promise you when you start doing it there's transformation there I first start so I'm the the one that's happening on September 1st is a free class anybody can attend and this is gonna be a lighter one it's very much an introductory I'm just kind of going over the basics getting people in to the point where they decide if decide where you want to do this if you want to do it what are you focus what do you need to focus on and then of course I offer a deeper container that is only open to a small group of people who choose to join it where we go much deeper still at the beginner level but we go much deeper and this is where we address the one thing the narratives behind it the the mindset that got you there the the root of the problem the collective shadow that helps feed it and total rabbit hole but we have our shadows but then we have our collective shadows the bigger shadows the shadows of our culture the shadow of our family the beliefs there and it can look something similar or as simple as one one person I worked with many years ago their family didn't believe that you needed to brush your teeth every day so personal self care was sacrificed because of a narrative that someone in the family fed the whole family and this person couldn't understand why they had so much dental disease and they couldn't get it under control and it so it can look like something simple like that a simple everyday problem or it can go down a deeper route route where you experienced some trauma from a relationship and you make yourself the perpetual victim in that story and you keep repeating that story over and over and over and over never breaking yourself out of it and healing from it so we you know it it can go very deep it can very very superficial but it's always uncomfortable cause it's always that deep look yes and I think that that ties to divination in a number of different ways I um it it's the it's similar with divination where I I love when the cards tell me you know go ahead with your plans and often times that is the way hopefully uh but then sometimes the most uncomfortable readings are the ones that are the most actually valuable they are the ones that tell us the things we actually need to hear because if I only need someone to be a yes person to me well you're not getting anywhere yeah yeah you're not getting anywhere so um so tying that then to divination you have a number of different practices that you do that are quite fascinating I feel like one of the things we could go first with is that you you have talked a great deal about pendulums in the past and I am fascinated with pendulums I think they're I don't know if I want to say they're misunderstood or or not taken as seriously as they should be but I do feel like people are like oh yeah and then there's pendulums okay so let's get to tarot let's um yeah can you maybe talk to us a little bit about your views on pendulums and and any thoughts you want to give on them yeah so I think pendulums are one of those not quick and dirty but quick ways to get an answer so if you need a yes no or maybe same with coins you can get it really quickly and you can keep a pendulum in your pocket you can keep it in your bra you can carry it anywhere with you so if you maybe you're going for a business deal and you're not sure about it you you just there's something off about it you can go to the bathroom pull out your pendulum and get an answer right away now something I do caution with pendulums they are easy to manipulate and I've seen people do it one of the key things when you're using your pendulum is try not to influence it let it tell you so that means holding it very steady and not moving your hand in the direction you want it to go hahaha because that would definitely defeat the purpose it does and then you're just then you're just kidding yourself you're just you're lying to yourself or whoever you're reading for and the other advice I give to that is calibrate the pendulum to you so my pendulum when it's a yes it swings back and forth if it's and it and the yes will look differently to according to what I'm asking so if it's a big yes it'll swing big if it's a meh yeah kind of yes it'll be a real slow swing or a small swing no is side to side left to right I don't know it's just a circle doesn't matter if it goes uh counterclockwise or clockwise it's just it goes in a circle and or if it's something that it can't if it's information it can't gain for me it just won't move at all and so this is where the manipulation can come in like if I wanted everything to be a yes I could make it say yes of course I could I could make it say no I could make it say I don't know so the key is to be very conscious of how you're holding it how still you're being I literally hold my breath when after I ask the question so that I am not moving it even with just breathing and I think that's why they get skipped over is because they can be easily influenced and I don't think a lot of people understand how to properly use them they haven't calibrated it they don't understand how to ask the question and typically it's a yes no question and sometimes that's a hard hard thing to ask because you want to be as specific as possible but not all yes no questions are very specific right and not everything should be a yes no sometimes that is right not the right question to be asking but when you do need a yes no it's a it's a very beautiful thing to have that clarification for but then moving moving up the uh haha shall we say um complication level there are forms of divination that you practice one in particular that involves trees and I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about that because you and I both share our love of divination in the outdoors in a lot of ways I love it so so it's it's called dendromancy and this is an ancient practice of using the trees to divine one of the things that I tripped myself up with when I first started learning this is I thought that I needed to have this wimsical experience where the leaves would blow around me you know like Pocahontas and you know hahaha this whole fantasy in my head right there yeah there would be the you know butterflies and so what it is is it literally I will ask the trees I will talk to the trees and it goes back to the work cutting of getting quiet listening so the divining comes from how the wind blows through the leaves how the the branches might creak how the moss is growing um maybe how the sunlight is shining on the leaves at that moment and then of course using your own unique Claire's to gain more information from that so and and here's where I would always trip myself up I thought that I had to take like a long two hour walk in the woods to get my answers when sometimes it was immediate I would get it instantly and then I'll be like oh well uh there's gotta be more right somebody I'll keep walking and asking and they're giving me the same answer over and over again I'm like oh okay I got it now hahaha I'm just going for a nice walk now hahaha also nice but you know yeah hahaha important yeah not what was I not what I was expecting I was expecting like this prolific experience but that also speaks to the the fact that it is a shift in attention and blocking out the time to do that and a number of other sort of like subsidiary skills and things that you prioritize in order to make that happen yeah which then has to blend into your life so would you say that this like relationship with trees is and the way that you divine kind of through that is that something that you came to recently or something that you've practiced since you were a kid do you know what I mean I I think it's since I was a kid I I was always up in the trees if that makes sense like we had a lemon tree we had a plum trees so where I grew up in California it used to be Orchards so almost every backyard in my neighborhood had some sort of fruit tree and of course like most of those are small enough that a kid can climb them and so my entire childhood like memories of being outside was either being under a tree or in a tree or surrounded by a tree so I think my relationship with trees is I have sometimes I wonder if it's lifetimes old because of the immediate connection I had when I was a kid and and the connections I still have and that's when I go to uh properties where they have been damaged and they need healing or the owners are wanting to build but they want to do it in a respectful way when I go there to divine how the how healthy is the land how sick is the land how angry is the land what is the energy vibe of the land I'm using the trees I'm speaking to the trees they're telling me and in in my tradition we look at the trees as the ancestors they are the ones who had that have been around the longest next to mycelium you know the the mushrooms and the mycelium networks but they are the ones that speak and of course now science I love it when science proves what we already know that the mycelial networks and the trees are intrinsically connected they they talk to each other they feed each other they warn each other they they send messages there is a neural network there the the connection has always been there and I never really thought about how far back it might actually go yeah it's pretty cool and it's also probably because I think that um with a lot of these things hence we go back to what you were saying about how you went out into the woods and were playing at being a witch by doing divination you know kids kids have the instinct that has not been tamped down for knowing how to look for these connections even if we may not have the technique for it but you know the connection points have not been they haven't been uh dulled at that point yeah so and that's also very very important when looking at the damage that has happened between relationships between humans and other beings like trees and land and you and I both are very passionate about the importance of you know healing particularly for people who do have the the the blessing of being able to live on land for longer periods of time you know like it is it is a thing that is not discussed as much in our culture as it should be so right can you maybe tell us just a little bit more about the way that you connect with the spirits of a place when you go there specifically to talk about that addressing of where the relationship stands because we I've done that here on our land with other friends as well and I'm very curious your perspective on it yeah so when I go to a new piece of land that I'm not familiar with first thing I do is I walk the the land hopefully there's paths that are already defined that allow me to get to the nitty gritty places um and I try to find the places that either were damaged or the places where the owner are they're looking to build and I I sit in those places I get quiet I listen to the birds I watch the leaves I watch the trees I listen to the creaking the moaning groaning of the trees and I get onto the ground and feel the earth itself then I give an offering to the land after I introduce myself I've sat with it for a little while it it's starting to recognize me I give it an offering and that can look very different depending on the land I'm working with um I actually tell this we I I talk with one of the homeowners that I've been working with and we we talk about in detail how I go through this process and or what the process was for her land and and um that's that one you can find on my Unbound Priestess podcast and so with this particular situation what I did was I started with a drum it didn't like the drum I did some bells it didn't like the bells I had a few other things in a wagon that I was trying and finally I got the impression it wanted my voice it wanted to hear my voice because up to this point I was pretty quiet like I'm not speaking I'm listening I'm energetically reaching out and so that's when I started using an incantation from my tradition and that's sung and we use that in our ritual circles as an offering we usually typically offer it up to the gods but from my perspective I don't know it the Land Gods potato potato and that's what did it that's what initiated the connection they wanted my voice they wanted that the vibration of singing to be present and and so the so using that particular incantation that I use in sacred ceremonies was exactly the the key in the lock it it was exactly what opened everything up and every property is different some properties want food offerings some properties like the bells some properties like the drumming even though I'm not a great drummer I don't I don't pretend to be but you don't have to be and I think that's the key right there you don't have to be great at something for the divine in the land and the earth and the trees for them to appreciate it it's the sentiment yes absolutely that that reaching forward so that then someone else can reach back cause we we we need to start those collaborations and those conversations in whatever ways we have so that's really beautiful you um I think with with all these different threads it's it's a lot to weave together and I was wondering if you have any advice for people who might who might feel like it's a it's a common problem I think especially with our our culture kind of wanting to keep everybody in neat little boxes right like the algorithm loves when you are one thing cause then we can just label you but all these different practices weave together in different ways to make a life and is there is there anything in particular that you have found helpful for people trying to sort of put these practices more to the fore in their life or see how to integrate them is it something where you just feel like it's showing up every day with one particular thing that you've seen help people or is it you know more of a way that you think about blending practices together I think of it as showing up every day so showing up for your practice and yourself every day every day witchcraft I mean and that's probably the main thing that I teach is every day witchcraft making your practice something that you want to engage with first something that inspires you kind of Kindles that flame and something that is easy for you to practice because if we make it overly complicated if we put it out of reach we're never gonna reach for it right so if anybody out there is like oh but I wanna do this and I wanna do that I wanna do this do it go explore that is that is probably one of the best advice pieces of advice that my high priestess gave me when I was a baby witch go explore go learn from people go learn as much as you can from as many people who are willing to teach you because yes there are some traditions that are closed they don't teach just anybody and everybody that's okay respect that go find the people who are willing to teach you so when I was butting when I was learning when I was trying to define myself as a witch I I practiced I studied and I practiced with the reclaiming group I studied and practiced with the Black Forest clan I studied and practiced with you know smaller fairy traditions um then I found my my I guess Forever coven until our High Priestess um passed away that was more of an elven style coven um so there's you can do it all you can you don't have to what I what I recommend is if you're overwhelmed if you're like I wanna do it all and I feel like I have to be good at it now I have to know it all now I have to master it right away first of all tuck that away you don't try something for 30 days take 30 days and try the thing so if that's herbalism if that's candle magic if that's a a form of divination if that's talking to the trees dendromancy whatever whatever it is that you want to try maybe it's perfume making whatever it is 30 days show up for it every day for 30 days and it doesn't have to be a grand scale maybe it's a journal entry that you write about it why you like it why it inspires you maybe if you know if you're doing perfume making maybe it's blending one blend and then giving it to somebody to see how they like it and then the next day you make yourself one or the next day you make one for anointing and ritual do the practice for 30 days do the thing and see how you like it see if it really does resonate with you see if it really does become something that you're like oh I could really get into this I like this this lights me up then you know okay that's right for you keep that and then move on to the next okay I'm gonna try candle magic for 30 days so I'm gonna get 30 candles I'm gonna light one every single day and I'm gonna try anointing them I'm gonna try um rolling them in herbs I'm gonna try um divination with with wax I mean try the different things with that candle read the books find find somebody teaching about it that sort of thing yeah that's beautiful and that's also the the curiosity factor in that is that follow your curiosity and then it will lead you to some very interesting interesting places and then you you show up with it for that for that period so it's not overwhelming and we need that we need a sense of wonder a sense of whimsy in our life it's a scientific fact we need a sense of whimsy and a sense of wonder we need to have curiosity and that is essential to our mental health it is essential to also developing on our path growing as a person as a witch as a magical practitioner is is being curious being open and finding the things that that you know tickle your brain as my son would say scratches that itch right yes the play is the root of of all the best things yes yes it is a universal language we all understand play and it it's essential in in creating dopamine in the brain and we need dopamine to achieve our goals so if we're not actively trying to produce dopamine in our system along with you know other neuro neurochemicals we're not going to stick with the project we're not gonna stick with the goal we're not going to reach the goal we're not going to in continue to infuse our path with magic and I think that's so essential and being a witch doesn't mean you just identify as a witch you practice the craft that's why we call it practicing witchcraft and a craft because we're practicing it we are gaining the knowledge we're gaining the wisdom and we can't do that if we're not showing up regularly and maybe that's not every day maybe it's once a week maybe it's once a month however often that is for you yeah and that is that is really beautiful advice and I think it's a a really lovely um way for us to start to close out this conversation though I I hope it will be the first of many um good I would love to hear from you what it is that speaking of playing and curiosity you mentioned something on September 1st what else do you have coming up we will both be at Temple Fest so for those going to Temple Fest you are I'm so excited but what what do you have to tell us about so um well depending on when this one comes out on August 25th I I am teaching um a form of magic that I have been doing for years called the Living Spell and this is a form of magic where I I'm teaching how to come out of using your magic as reactionary where we use magic as that knee jerk reaction when we experience something unpleasant or you know the negative bank account the the sudden medical scare whatever it is because this process uses our brain neuroscience one of my other you know wonders in the world one of the things that I love to learn about and it it's re anchoring ourselves in our sense of wonder in our imagination in our creative spark and if you think you're not creative you are everybody's creative we're all creative and so this this spell is something that you infuse into your magical path in magic into your path every day every week several times a week a few times a month and it's a continual spell so it's becomes this big grimoire that you're feeding so that your life that your path is not reactionary so your magic is not reactionary so that one happens on August 25th then shadow work for witches is September 1st Temple Fest and then after that I have hex the hustle with witches for my business witches I have been a business witch for about 20 years now and I am finally taking what I know and offering it to witches where we are first focusing on our magic that's as witches that's where our businesses need to be anchored in our magic and so this is a four week container where we are coming together as a collective and inside of it I have a hype circle for you to tell us about your business so that we can go out into social media and share like grow our following but also start infusing our business with magic here and now before we get too far in our business before we forget why we started our businesses and and this comes from me tripping and falling a lot and not realizing that yo wait I'm a witch who's also a business owner uh why is magic my second thought why is it on the back burner and then yeah that takes us that takes us into October and then yeah the the rest of the year is hopefully it's gonna gonna be kind of chill hahaha I mean I always have stuff going on in the coven but um yeah hopefully that's gonna be a little bit of a relaxing portion to enjoy the holidays enjoy family enjoy friends that sort of thing very nice well that's very awesome all of the links to all of that and all you know your website and all the other places to find you will be in the show notes so that is gonna be the place for people to go and look for all of that and I think that's that's a beautiful place to end so I thank you so much for your time and I can't wait for those who are coming to Temple Fest yeah you will get to see us there and for everyone else you will uh be able to find Leandra online so thank you so much for coming on today thank you thank you for having me this is great