Tracy Cox: Hi and welcome Amy, you're from Erie all the way to Pennsylvania. I'm glad I didn't say it the opposite way around. ⁓ So welcome today Amy, how are you?
Amy Gould: Hey, thank you for having me. I'm doing well, thanks. It is very cold in Erie, Pennsylvania this morning for May, but...
Tracy Cox: Good, good, you're very welcome. ⁓ is it? Yeah, well it's the same in Spain actually, it's quite cold over here at the moment. Yeah, unheard of, but yeah. We'll survive.
Amy Gould: Is it? Yeah. Yeah, it'll be summer soon.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, we keep holding on to that. So, Aang you've got a really inspirational story and you've been through quite a lot as well. We've discussed it very, very briefly beforehand. ⁓ Yeah, and I'd just like to kind of explore that more with you today, if that's okay, about obviously a music career that you had ⁓ and kind of where your trajectory or your direction was changed along the way. So, where do you want to start from?
Amy Gould: So I will give the high level overview, I guess. ⁓ I am a musician, I'm ⁓ a female metal singer, ⁓ also classically trained. So I've been doing the gamut of music my whole life pretty much. But in my late teens, I started getting into the rock music and into bands and fronting metal bands in my early 20s. So I was kind of on this trajectory. ⁓ I was in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area at the time and I was starting to like make a name for myself a little bit. Um, it wasn't huge. Nobody really, it was a big, big pond, little fish. Um, but I was kind of on my way. Things were starting to move each, each band that I was in, um, started to get a little bit more progress and I, um, started doing a lot of the writing in the terms of it was all original music. So I was starting to write the lyrics and the vocal lines and the songs and
Tracy Cox: So Wow, how old were you then Amy?
Amy Gould: I was in my very early 20s, I want to say the, I started at about 18 and then I was probably about 23 when I stopped doing it. Around 24 maybe, 24. I met my ex-husband and that's where things took a big turn and a change in my life.
Tracy Cox: Sure. Okay.
Amy Gould: So, ⁓ I was, he was another musician, ⁓ friends with a band that I was in. We got to know each other. I had been engaged to somebody else previously. It was not a bad situation, but it was just, we weren't right for each other. So after a few years, we broke up. was devastated and I was young girl thinking this was it, you know, and, my ex husband kind of swooped in. Now he had known me for a while. ⁓ he had gotten to know pretty much everything about me because
Tracy Cox: Okay. Yeah. So.
Amy Gould: I was really close friends with the guys in my band and he was friends with them and so a lot of times he hung out with us. When I first met him, I was like, I don't like this guy. He's kind of a jerk.
Tracy Cox: Sure. Yeah, I think we all have those moments.
Amy Gould: Yeah, and so I kind of had that in my head. And then all of a sudden he started to change around me. And this is when I was kind of vulnerable after being in this relationship that I thought was going to be a marriage and didn't work out. And ⁓ he kind of started to court me, I guess you would say. ⁓ And all of a sudden, here was this guy who I thought was a total jerk, who seemed to be almost like my Prince Charming. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Okay.
Amy Gould: So we started to date. Mean I can remember our first date. It was like everything that I loved he loved it was like ridiculous like the amounts of things that we had in common I was like, who are you because I would have never seen that from you before so it's confusing but at the same time it was awesome I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, here's this guy, know, I'm a big Disney fan. I go big Disney junkie I love to go to Disney World and things like that. And so he's like, ⁓ I love all the Disney I love all those movies I love and I was like really cuz that's normal that
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: You hear from guys in our age, you know. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: Just things like that. right away it was like this whirlwind romance. I think it was probably a month and he asked me to marry him. And I was like smart enough at that time, I guess, to know that wasn't right. But not smart enough to know what a predator looks like. So ⁓ he, you know, I did put him off. I remember calling one of my best friends at the time and saying, hey, what do I do? What do I do? He wants to like get in the car and drive to one of
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow. Mm-hmm. ⁓ okay.
Amy Gould: states that just allows you to walk in and get married. And she, she, and I'm like, you know, I know I love him. I know he's like, he's the one. and she was like, if he's the one, he'll still be the one in six months, you know? And I'm like, you're right. You're right. So I said, no, not now. And so, but the romance just continued. And as it went on, he started working on me and turning and pitting my band against me. So he didn't want them to know that I was dating him.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: He didn't want and he said, you know, it's gonna make them angry and all these things and so it put me in this really awkward Triangle situation, you know where I couldn't be myself around my bandmates and it was getting very awkward I was having to lie and I that's not me. I don't like to lie and So we got to the point where
Tracy Cox: Of course, yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: He I said to him, know, like I can't keep doing this. I'm not going to keep hiding this. They're my best friends, too. You know, I've been with these guys for how long and we're like a family and you know. And so he says, well, don't you tell them because I'm I was your friend first. Let me tell them. And I was like, OK, well, it takes the heat off me a little bit. So he went and supposedly had this meeting with them and supposedly they got really, really angry. And. Yeah, and.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, Okay.
Amy Gould: it just got very awkward and so I just quit.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ no. And had they got angry? Do you know if they had got angry or not? Right, okay.
Amy Gould: They did not. Yeah, I think, you know, I've actually reconnected with the guitar player from that band recently and we've talked a little bit. He was just pitting us against each other. His goal was to pretty much take me away from all of it. You know, you know, 2020 hindsight, I now know he is...
Tracy Cox: Right, okay.
Amy Gould: somebody with actual narcissistic personality disorder and also antisocial personality disorder. He got diagnosed with both of those in our marriage time. ⁓ and so he was, he's like basically for all intents and purposes, a sociopath and, but I had never met anybody like that in my life. So I had no idea it blindsided me because they come in like you're Prince charming and sweep you off your feet. And it's a swirling romance. And before you know it, you're in so deep, you don't even,
Tracy Cox: Wow. Yeah.
Amy Gould: know that you're in it anymore. ⁓ So anyway, I ended up dropping out of that band. did try to be in another band for a short period of time after that. And every time, you know, I would go to rehearsals and things like that, I'd come back and tell him what it was like. And he would work on me and try to convince me that they weren't appreciating me or it wasn't good enough. You know, there was something wrong with the situation so that I would be like, yeah, you know, and it started to be stressful for me because I'm thinking, yeah, you know, he's right. You know, I'm probably not being treated right.
Tracy Cox: Right, yeah.
Amy Gould: Right, yeah, they're probably gonna just dump me anyway. He worked on my self-esteem.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ gosh, yeah.
Amy Gould: Meanwhile, he was working on my self-esteem all around. started out when I came into that, other than being fragile from a breakup, I was actually very self-assured. And I just completely changed. He started to criticize my looks. Like I can remember him telling me, yeah, you know, I almost didn't date you because I don't like your chin. And I'm like, what's wrong with my chin? He's like, well, it's just pointy and it's weird. you know, but one of my friends told me I was being too shallow. So I can overlook that now. And I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, like, you know,
Tracy Cox: Oh gosh. Yeah, yeah. Right, okay. Yeah.
Amy Gould: So I started to worry about what I looked like and I hadn't, I just lost all sense of self in this relationship. So after that, yeah. ⁓ you're good.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. It sounds like, sorry Amy, I was just gonna say, just going back to that, because Gnosis-ism is thrown around a lot nowadays on social media, et cetera. But it sounds like he, and I'm not a therapist, and I will just disclaim that now, but it sounds like he love bombed you for that month and mirrored your behavior in order to get you to connect, because obviously you were connecting on a level where he was basically copying your behavior.
Amy Gould: Yeah. Right, exactly. You nailed it.
Tracy Cox: and then the chip-chip-chipping away, the dismissive and the kind of trying to get you away from anybody that could support you. Yeah, it sounds awful. How are you feeling at that time then?
Amy Gould: At the time I was feeling very burnt out. remember feeling like...
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Amy Gould: I, this music career just isn't for me. It's too stressful. It's burning me out. can't seem to make any headway with it. Um, you know, but gosh, at least I have this really awesome relationship. So I was, you know, he was sweeping, you know, he was helping break, you know, clean up the broken pieces of my career by pulling me out of the career and then making it seem like he's my savior. So, um, at the time I felt supported by him in a really strange odd way, even though I was getting no support.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah. Of course, yeah.
Amy Gould: for him whatsoever if it seemed like I was. ⁓ And then it, you know, it just kept going from there. ⁓ I completely gave up music. Like I did nothing. And I am, I will tell, you know, people a lot of times in interviews, music is part of, part of who I am. It's like my identity. And I don't go a day without picking up some sort of instrument ⁓ and doing something or singing or something. And I did then.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Soon. Yeah.
Amy Gould: just completely fell out of it. ⁓ got real career focused. I was working a day job at a medical software company and I got really involved in that and I became sort of just work focused ⁓ and then relationship focused. And it was always about making sure he had everything he needed. And I'm a caretaker by ⁓ default. And ⁓ so it just became my life taking care of him.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Amy Gould: And then somewhere along the lines, ⁓ he started working on me about becoming a mother and I never had any intentions. In fact, when people found out that knew me from my earlier life, that I was pregnant or going to be a mom, they were like, what? How'd that happen? And I'm like, well, it was planned, you know, and they're like, you, because I had this idea. I want to be an artist. I want, this is what I want. This my, my career would have been my life. You know, I just.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I love doing the music stuff so much that that isn't like, I'm a workaholic. It's no, this is what makes me me. And I saw that as like becoming a parent is an okay thing, but I had other things in mind that I wanted to do and I knew I couldn't be a good mom and do these things. So.
Tracy Cox: So. Right, yeah. So something had to give.
Amy Gould: He talked me into it somehow. He got me believing that I was the one. ⁓ And so ⁓ we tried and got pregnant pretty quickly. And I don't regret it. I love my son. My son's amazing. But I became basically a mother and a caretaker to him. ⁓ Somewhere in my son's, you know, a little bit older.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: getting to be preschool age, ⁓ I fell upon a local chorus in our town ⁓ where I could maybe have as an outlet. And he fought me on auditioning for it because he didn't want me not being. home all the time to take care of the kid. So I actually worked from home all those years. Like I was working full time raising my son who actually turns out to be on the autism spectrum, which is a whole nother story, but so it was challenging and I was working full time and I was raising my son and, but I had no outlet. Like I had nothing. So
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I did, I just kind of, there was still part of me in there that was still me. And I was like, you know, I don't care what you think, I'm gonna go audition for this chorus. And I got in and ⁓ I was with them for quite a few years, but it was always very challenging. So it was a classical situation. ⁓ I was like, I actually was a soloist there and it was awesome. I really enjoyed my time there.
Tracy Cox: Amazing. Yeah.
Amy Gould: He started making that difficult to the point where ⁓ using our son as triangulation. so by doing that, would, you know, ⁓ make my son's life difficult. He's on the spectrum. So sometimes that would make it even more difficult with behaviors. And I would end up having to leave rehearsals or having to not even do a concert because of things. And he it just so hard. ⁓ So that's kind of...
Tracy Cox: Okay. Yeah. From the understanding of the triangulation that it makes you the perpetrator at times, him the victim, you know, and then you've got the coach as well. So at that time, what was he pitting you for? Were you the perpetrator? You were the one leaving your son. You were the one that was abandoning. What kind of was he saying to you at that time?
Amy Gould: Basically what he was doing is he was kind of harming our son and without me kind of knowing that it was happening, he was psychologically doing it a lot of the times ⁓ and then causing my son's behaviors to be so severe that I needed to intervene. And a lot of times I was sort of the buffer between the two of them and a lot of times.
Tracy Cox: Okay. So he was the perpetrator.
Amy Gould: Yes, he was the perpetrator for sure. And he would cause behaviors in my son, which would cause my son's behaviors to become aggressive. And I would get in the middle of this, of ⁓ a grown adult and a child trying to stop this. And so, yeah, I had to be there as a peacemaker all the time. And that became my role. Yeah. So.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, be the peacemaker. Yeah, that's hard. Really hard for you.
Amy Gould: I still tried to do things here and there. did a little bit of like theater, local community theater, musical theater, trying to just something, you know, every once in a while I'd get a night out with some girlfriends and we'd go do karaoke and I'd go do it and they'd be like, who are you? I've been singing classical with them, you know, and I pick it up, you know, I'm a metal singer, you know, rock and metal is my thing. And they were like, who are you? Wow, you can do all these things. And I'm like, this is...
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's mad. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I was supposed to be at one time in my life, but you know, you know, reality check, blah, blah, blah, you know. Yeah, I just convinced myself that all of that was my choice. And, you know, so I really and and during this entire time frame, ⁓ I guess I to go back a little bit when I was young, very young, I started writing music at the piano when I was probably like eight or nine years old. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Okay, so you kept pushing it down. Right. Yeah. That's incredible.
Amy Gould: Thank you. I mean, it was goofy little songs, but you know, and then by the time I was an early teen, they were all like, my boyfriend broke up with me songs, you know? But yeah, I actually have one song that I still remember how to play and I actually...
Tracy Cox: Of course, yeah.
Amy Gould: had somebody actually learn how to play it in school because they thought it was so awesome and you know it actually isn't a bad song it's a little it's a little bit of a you know i don't know teenage love drama song but it it's still i'm proud of the the orchestration of it um maybe someday that would be fun like my little side project amy's old music from when she was 12 yeah
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Maybe you should release it, Amy. Maybe this is your sign to get it out there. Yeah, definitely. I'm sure there's some teenagers out there that need it.
Amy Gould: It's probably a little different than what they're listening to today but yeah. I, anyway, so was writing all that time and then when I got into this marriage I had complete writer's block. I couldn't write. And I remember sitting at my piano and I just didn't know what to do. I'd try to like get some sheet music maybe and learn how to play something but I just had no...
Tracy Cox: Probably.
Amy Gould: I don't know what way, like no ⁓ energy or whatever it was, the motivation wasn't there. And so it just got sidelined ⁓ for all those years. And it was a lot of years. I was in that marriage for over 20 years. ⁓ So it was a very long time. And at the end, thankfully, probably the last five years of it, I knew what was happening to me finally, but damage done. Unfortunately.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, And that's the start of the awakening, isn't it? I think when you start seeing the red flags and questioning things as well. yeah, I mean, I don't know what your marriage looked like, Amy, but I'm guessing that it wasn't happy towards the end. And maybe you realized through your son. I mean, at the end of the day, what was it that woke you up and went, that's it, I can't do this anymore?
Amy Gould: now. That's exactly it. He had a way of manipulating emotionally. ⁓ and he was very, really good at crocodile tears and feigning empathy. and one time though, you know, you can see through the cracks sometimes, but when it's happening to you, it's harder. But when you see it as a third person and you see it happening to your child. And all of a sudden that mask came off of him and I went, ⁓ this is not what I thought it was. And now it's all making perfect sense. I can remember I, you know, I'm still going through all
Tracy Cox: Okay. Yeah. Right.
Amy Gould: these things where he's being ⁓ angry. You he used anger to control us. and, know, I remember it just being really awful. And I thought, I wonder if I'm being abused. And it just kind of popped in my head that maybe his, ⁓ his behaviors were abusive. I mean, he'd had some hospitalizations. We'd had police at our home. you know, I literally, you know, not to get too graphic, but
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow.
Amy Gould: When we moved out of that home, before we moved out of the home, my son and I were living there alone there after some at the end. ⁓ I painted the walls in the hallway because there was literal blood stains on our walls. It was just horrific. Everything that happened there. ⁓ yes, there was physical, there was every type of abuse that you can you can add to it. Thank you. Thank you. ⁓
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow So there was physical abuse there. ⁓ no, ⁓ no. I'm really sorry to hear that, Amy, because nobody should have to go through that.
Amy Gould: So anyway, but I I lost my train of thought with the painting the walls thing. ⁓ so starting to realize that there might be abuse here, I
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: I went online and I just Googled like abuse and the ⁓ abuse hotline in the United States came up and I was like, I don't want to call this, you know, but they had like a chat, like a, like a chat window online that you could do. And I thought, ⁓ my God, like I was sitting out. I remember with a laptop sitting out on our, patio, he wasn't home, but I was like so nervous like to do this. And I opened a chat and I said, I'm just trying to figure out like if I'm being abused or not. And so they were really, really nice and helpful and
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: Excuse me, I just gave them a high level overview, know, like not even because at the time most of the most of the abuse that was physical was directed at our son, but there was some at me. ⁓ But so it was confusing for me because I didn't know about emotional abuse at that point. So the mental abuse, which apparently can be just as bad, if not worse sometimes.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was just going to say, I think it's worse, the mental abuse, because the minimization of their behavior ends up transcending onto you. So you minimize, make excuses, and your brain goes, oh, yeah, this isn't abuse. This is just normal anger, or this is normal family, or normal relationships. And it's not, not at all.
Amy Gould: Yeah, and it also makes you feel like, ⁓ you know, there's something where I knew there was something wrong with him, but my empathy kicked in and I was like, he just needs help. So I became on mission to try to get him the right kind of help to help him be a better person.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. The rescue hour.
Amy Gould: the rescuer. Yeah. And of course, you know, he didn't want the help, you know, it wasn't a matter of him like, ⁓ wow. I didn't realize that I was this person. I need to do better. It was like, no, I'm do I'm doing these things because it gets me what I want. And so, but I spent a lot of time with like, you know, making sure he had psychological appointments and psychiatry appointments. years later, I found like it was like a tackle box full of pills. He never took them.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. ⁓ no, okay, yeah.
Amy Gould: You know, he hit them. Yeah, you know, was all just a big facade. But yeah, I got on there and they were like, yeah, you're absolutely being abused. We want to you in touch with our local agency. And they brought up the information. They're like, please give them a call. And I was like, OK, yeah, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to go. There's no way I'm being abused that bad that I need to call our local abuse agency.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. ⁓ well.
Amy Gould: So it took me a little while. And things kept, you know, as things do sort of when you start to push things and you start to push back a little bit, they get worse. ⁓ and so finally I did call them, ⁓ and it was probably a couple months later and they were like, we really like for you to come down here. ⁓ and your son too, if, and, and have a meeting it's, you know, we will do this secretively. He doesn't have to know that you're doing it. ⁓ you know, it's very discreet. We're back in this little Plaza. Nobody will even know you're there.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: Meanwhile, I have a fire orange Prius, so I'm letting my car... Everyone's know where I am at all times. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah, it's going to get spotted.
Amy Gould: So, but luckily it was like in this area that like, you know, your car's not even, you know, nobody's going to notice it. ⁓ but my son wasn't ready to do anything. So I went myself and I started seeing basically a therapist there, ⁓ social worker who I would go and get therapy weekly with her. And we would talk about what my options were. And at the time, ⁓ I really needed a protective,
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: ⁓ what do you call it, a protective thing from, yeah, yeah, they call it like a protection from abuse thing through the court system. ⁓
Tracy Cox: FIGGAR FIGGAR Yeah, right, okay, yeah.
Amy Gould: But in our state, in the US here, everything's sort of, each state has their own laws about all these things. There is no protection for emotional abuse. The only types of protection you can get are for physical or sexual violence. And you have to be able to pretty much prove that that's happening to you. So what they will do is they'll give you a protection that's temporary until you get to court and then a judge will decide whether or not there's evidence for this protective order. ⁓ And it is kind of a serious thing when you get one of these because it actually bans the person from the home. They're not allowed on the property. Even if they own the home, it doesn't matter. And then it goes on their record, know, a criminal record. So they were counseling me and saying, you know, you really need one of these, but we're going to be honest with you about it. They don't often give them for emotional abuse.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. And so it should.
Amy Gould: And I was like, okay. And at the time my son was still underage. So he was considered a child. I was terrified about that. I was worried that they would say, you know, this doesn't happen. You're not, you're not being abused. And now he knows that I've done this and now he knows that I'm seeking help and he's going to take my son and they're, and I'm not going to be able to save my son, you know? So that was terrifying for me. I was so afraid to do it. So I didn't.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah. Okay.
Amy Gould: So I started just kind of working on him at home. I had at that point cut off any type of physical relations with him. And I was just, they call it gray rock method in abuse where you just become so boring to them that they have nothing to fight with.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Okay, I've not heard of that before, but that's interesting.
Amy Gould: Yeah, it's like for people who are kind of stuck in situations, especially like custody situations with their ex abusers, it's a method that they use because they're always trying to get you to be reactive. And so you just stop being reactive. You start just being a matter of fact about things, almost like a robot with them. So I started being more like that with him. But in the meantime, it was getting kicked up because he knew he was seeing that I saw through things and taking it out.
Tracy Cox: EIM. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, he'd been found out.
Amy Gould: Yeah, taking it out more on our son. It took me five years to get out of that at that point. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Wow. How old was your son at that time, Amy? And what impact was your husband's behavior having on him?
Amy Gould: It was, it's terrible what my son has had to endure. So he was at the time when we finally got out, was 18. But prior to that, he, you know, he was about, you know, 16 or so. Even, I guess, from 14 to about 18, you know, that area of time was when we were.
Tracy Cox: Right, okay. Yeah.
Amy Gould: really getting worse. Like I actually kicked him out of the house. ⁓ At one point he stayed at a local like motel down the street for a month. ⁓ But he loved bombing again. He came and sat on the back patio with me and cried crocodile tears and promised, you know, it would be different that he, you know, he knew that there was something wrong with him and he was getting more help and all these things and told me all the things that I wanted to hear.
Tracy Cox: Yep. Yeah, and it's so easy to believe. So easy to believe.
Amy Gould: Yeah, especially when you're like, okay, you're trying not to break up the family and you're trying to figure out what is best for your child. you know, probably everything for me, I didn't even care about me anymore. It was just trying to save my kid. And I let him back in and it got a hundred percent worse. Like the next day he moved back in and it was just worse abuse. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Wow.
Amy Gould: you know, breaking things and throwing things. At one point I, I actually ⁓ started to be concerned because our pets were sick a lot. We had cats and we lost a cat due to a bleeding ulcer in his stomach and nobody ever knew what caused it. ⁓ But we had all these times, like all of a sudden our cast would just start vomiting and vomiting up blood and ⁓
Tracy Cox: Right. Okay.
Amy Gould: We, I just didn't know what was going on. We were at the vets all the time and the vets were like, we have no idea what's causing this. So they kept putting the cats on medications to try to help it. It wasn't helping. ⁓ And then my ex-husband went away for a weekend and the cats were fine. And then he came home and the cats immediately were sick again. So he was poisoning our pets. We finally found that out.
Tracy Cox: Right, right, okay. ⁓ no.
Amy Gould: And I, he said, there's no way I'm doing that. You know, and I confronted him because I, know, my cats are my babies too. So I am, we installed, he agreed to it. We installed cameras in the house so that he could prove he wasn't doing it. Well, you know, he manipulated those too. ⁓
Tracy Cox: So so.
Amy Gould: So anyway, but I had, know, a couple of times he lost it, you know, angrily. And I had some pretty violent stuff on recording, or he picked up a chair and he went to go take a kitchen chair or dining room chair and he was going to hit my son with it.
Tracy Cox: Right, okay.
Amy Gould: and I got my son out of the way. ⁓ And he broke like a chandelier. I mean, it was just insane. So I got stuff like that on camera. when we finally, after all that, I'm still getting counseling from these agencies and ⁓ they were like, you probably have enough between what you're telling me that's happening to your son. If nothing else, he has enough. And so he was 18 at the time as an adult, he could also get a protective order.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic.
Amy Gould: So we finally did it. ⁓ And that was just the turning point of my life getting better. It became...
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Can I just ask Amy when you left because I know that in my mind you'd be like, yay, I'm leaving, that's it over. Did you crash though and did you have that grieving period?
Amy Gould: it's interesting because I didn't have a grieving period, so to speak. he, ⁓ actually not long into the protective order started to stalk us. So, um, yeah, I mean, was just a lot of things that were going on. So I didn't really have a lot of downtime, interestingly enough, I look back now and I know my initial gut instincts about him were right. And I never loved him.
Tracy Cox: Oh no. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: And I thought I was so deep in love with this man. I would have done anything for him. But I now look back and I was like, that never felt like love actually. And when I got out, I was relieved. There was no sense of, ⁓ my gosh, I love him so much. I just want to call him again. I was just done because there wasn't love. It was just manipulation for all those years. The love I had was for my son. And that was it. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yourself.
Amy Gould: Yeah, yeah. And I started to, you know, try to figure now that not to say that I snapped out of it was like, wow, everything's great. It wasn't even even after we got protective orders and things, you know, he still continued to terrorize us indirectly without being able to get caught. And there's just so much. ⁓
Tracy Cox: No.
Amy Gould: We found out later that he probably was poisoning our son at one point because our son had a lot of health issues and they could never quite pinpoint. And some lab results came back a little weird that his pediatrician picked up on. And we can never pinpoint it. And now we look back and go, ⁓ well, that's probably what's happening right there. ⁓ So there was all those things and it's just like. Was just great to get out of that, but that was in 2018. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: And so I was still trying to still recover. It's like being sick for 20 years, you know, and trying to start to feel like a human again. I didn't even know how to be me anymore. didn't know who me was anymore. And, you know, I was doing a lot of, I still do therapy today, ⁓ but I was doing therapy and trying to, you know, figure it all out.
Tracy Cox: Mmm. Yeah.
Amy Gould: And then one day I looked at my piano and it's all dusty and I hadn't touched it in forever and there was a notebook sitting there because a couple times I sat down and tried to write and I just couldn't. But I had a couple chords written down and I was like, there must be something here.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: So I just started to like, I call it noodling around on the piano and all of a sudden this writing surge came back. all just, it was like, it was amazing. It was like that flow that you hear about where people don't even know how they're doing it. It just happens. Like it's like almost like something's writing through you. And I just wrote so many songs. They just came one right after another, right after another. And I was like, this, that was my therapy. Like I'm getting therapy therapy, but this was,
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: the big therapy. This was the one that I needed and I found out who I was again and I had all this music and I'm like I need to do something with this. ⁓ my gosh I'm supposed to be in a band. That's what I'm supposed to be doing right now you know and my son's old enough now so I can you know I can do these things and so then the pandemic hit.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Oh no. Oh dear.
Amy Gould: But it was okay, because it gave me even more time to sit and write. And a lot of the songs that I wrote in my band now were born out of that. But of course, at the time, I had no access to people other than online. So Facebook was sort of my everybody's at that point way of communicating. And I met my partner now during the pandemic online.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ wow.
Amy Gould: We had gone to grade school together and we didn't really know each other. ⁓ But he saw that I was friends with a whole lot of musician friends from the same town that we were from. And he's like, hmm, do I know her? And that was his in to kind of flirt with me.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Gould: And so, you he's a musician as well. And so we just started talking. And so we did Zoom dates for a while during the pandemic and finally met up and, you know, we actually hit it off really well together. And he was, you know, telling me he was a bass player, musician. And I'm like, okay, you know, I got all this music. I want to put a band together. And at the time I'm thinking like, I've never seen you play bass. I don't know if you can play bass. It's kind of a funny side story, but eventually he did play.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ excellent, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Can he play bass?
Amy Gould: Yes, he does. He is actually the bass player in my band. yeah, we sort of started the whole band together. ⁓ But yeah, he it was a little frightening because I thought, ⁓ gosh, now I'm in deep with this guy. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Amazing, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: you know, and what if he's terrible? I'm going to have to say, no, you can't be in my band. So thankfully he's really good. But yeah, I mean, so I met him and like, ⁓ I finally found out what love actually was. It was, it was wonderful. Somebody who built me up instead of tearing me down. And not to say we haven't had our issues. I mean, there's been a lot of things that we've been through together as a couple, ⁓ and still continue to go through today, but
Tracy Cox: Yeah, we're breaking up. Amazing
Amy Gould: It was the night and day of somebody treating me like I mattered and I felt beautiful for the first time in 20 some years. Like I, you know, I always thought that I was like really not attractive and because he had just destroyed every ounce of self-esteem that I had. ⁓ know, I didn't I knew the only thing that I ever was able to hold on to was that I was a good singer because I was still doing some of that, you know, all during the marriage.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: But everything else kind of fell back into place. I started to feel like a sexy woman again, you know and so yeah, it was that was sort of the turning point and I Started looking for band members. So that's where the story sort of comes and brings us to where I'm at today
Tracy Cox: Yeah. That's amazing. And do you know something? It sounds like you were broken down by this man and you come across now, Amy is very, very confident. So I can imagine what you were like before you'd met him. But it seemed that music just kept pulling you through, you know, that time for yourself, that connection that you had, which was still that part of you. Yeah. And that's kind of kept with you. And now that suppression of the emotions and that kind of suppression of you, now that
Amy Gould: right.
Tracy Cox: gone it's all come back again which is just amazing and you know you've met somebody as well that's got something in common and I think that's the main thing is that he's supporting you he's holding you up rather than pushing you down so yeah and you look amazing you're very attractive and your hair is amazing I'm tempted to get the blue the blue and the red I know the audience won't be able to see it but it is really beautiful so yeah
Amy Gould: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's, that's. ⁓ thank you. you. Yeah. You know, I mean, here I am in, you know, my later life here and I decided, you know, what the heck. ⁓ I still have life to live. there's times where I'm really resentful and I look back and I'm like, I want those years back. I want to be that age again. I want my body to be that age again. I want my mind where it is now. I don't want to give up what I know. That's important. But I would love to have my 25 year old body back. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, we all do. Yeah. We all were, Amy.
Amy Gould: You know and just even even for stamina purposes and things like that, you know, no arthritic pain, please. That would be great. But yeah, I mean, it's just I feel very blessed. I guess that I'm where I am today. I had no idea what would happen. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Sure.
Amy Gould: I guess we haven't really talked about it, but my band is called Eden on Fire and we're a metal band that's up and coming in the industry. So we're starting to make a name for ourselves. ⁓ We, I, you know, I said, I got together with Scott's my partner, the bass player in the band, and we found the right people for the beginning. ⁓ They weren't exactly the right people in the end. A couple of people have left and we've replaced. And now I think we have a really, really right good people. But we, started.
Tracy Cox: Amazing. Yeah. Okay. Great.
Amy Gould: writing, know, and I brought all these tunes that I'd written during the pandemic and prior to that and and revamped, revised them and that became like our first album and it's called Unresolved.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow, and what's your album called? ⁓ wow, and is that part of your life prior to ⁓ bringing the band together again? Is that about your relationship? Wow.
Amy Gould: Yeah, so I would say... 90 % of that album is ⁓ some of it's about things that I was dealing with because of being in that relationship. Like we have a song called Wake the Monster and that's about me being triggered. And so after all this, you know, I do have, you know, PTSD and I'm, you know, I'm, I would say it's resolving now, but I came out of that relationship with it severely. And of course, when you get into a new relationship, I mean, it was two years before I got into a relationship again. So I gave myself a lot of breathing time.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I was not ready. I actually thought at one point that I was just done with ever having those kinds of feelings again, because I was just so damaged from that relationship. But you heal and eventually that all comes back. But ⁓ yeah, so when you get into that new relationship, you have no idea.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you do.
Amy Gould: what is going to happen when somebody does something or, you know, he says a word or something that he doesn't think, you know, doesn't know that it's a problem for me. And I don't know what's a problem for me until it happens. You know, Yeah. So anyway, we have songs like that on there. ⁓ There's a couple of songs where, you know, Scott and I had some moments and, know, I that's how I process. So when I'm upset about something, I sit down at the piano typically. But now I play a little guitar. So I'll sit down with the guitar and I just start screaming.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Gould: scribbling lyrics and writing. And that's how I process everything.
Tracy Cox: And that's amazing.
Amy Gould: Thank you. and that's why, you know, it's interesting. I always, I always joke with people, you know, don't upset me or you're going to end up in a song because it's really what happened. It's just exactly what I do. It's just how I get through everything. And like, we have a song that we just released a week ago and you know, it's an angry song about stuff that I've dealt with in the music scene. And so I was really mad one night I came home and I was like, oh, this song, you know, like, it just came out.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Right.
Amy Gould: And I actually wrote the guitar riff for it and everything and I it's a it's I think it's gonna be one of our best songs we've done so far So yeah, it's doing quite well. So but yeah, so The first album though, I would say most of it. I have a song called Fallen That was our first release and it's our only ballad that we have so far and it's very dark It is about that time in my life where I was at that. I was at the end
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow. Amazing. Right.
Amy Gould: was on the verge, ⁓ you know, trigger warning. But I did have a suicide attempt during all of that. ⁓ He actually caught me mid of that and waited a few minutes until I was passing out. And I remember seeing the smirk on his face before that happened. And then he got me help. ⁓ yeah, so that kind of stuff. That's okay.
Tracy Cox: Yes, yes. ⁓ gosh. ⁓ yeah. I was going to actually ask you, sorry Amy, what was the lowest point, but I think you've just answered my question. Yeah.
Amy Gould: That was it. Yeah, that was it where I he was torturing our son so badly and I couldn't protect him and I just felt like a total failure as a human being and I just couldn't I just wanted it to stop. I just wanted all the noise to stop all the pain, all the everything to stop. And of course, I wasn't thinking clearly about like, what about my son? I just I just needed it to stop at that moment. And that was Fallen is actually about that. And it's interesting because
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Amy Gould: We released that as our first ⁓ release in the band. We did singles a little bit before we released the album and it was our first single and it was kind of a risky one because we're a metal band. We're melodic. So we're kind of old school metal. We're not some of today's like hardcore, but.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: We had a radio station that heard us play it live and they were like, we hope that you have this song available for us. And I'm like, well, it wasn't going to be the one that's available, but we'll make that happen to get it on the radio. So we did. And it became a hit like here locally and we played a good airplay with it out in the world and it's still getting played. But I've had so many people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, Fallen, I relate so strong to that song. And I'm like, don't relate to that song. It's a terrible mom.
Tracy Cox: You Yeah, Great, Wow. Oh gosh, yeah, because you know the situation you're in. Yeah, oh wow.
Amy Gould: Yeah, but again, so many people have been at that point in their life. Maybe, you know, it's not like it blatantly calls out suicide in the song, but it talks about my mental state at that time, where I was. I wrote it introspectively, so it was after the fact, ⁓ you know, years later. ⁓ I wrote it, you know, during the pandemic, which my ex had been gone for several years. But, you know, I had told my mom, I was like, hey, ⁓ just so you know, I don't feel like this
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: now when you hear this song that was how I was then. But yeah, so there's some pretty dark stuff on there. That's the darkest and it's interesting because it's the ballad and it's the one that's probably got the most airplay of all their songs to date.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Wow. So your pain went to somebody else's game at the end of the day. I mean, how incredible is that, sharing your story through music and for others to be able to relate to that and for it to help them as well.
Amy Gould: Yeah, yeah, and that's... Yeah, and it's... It's one of those things where I think that's why our formula is working so well with our music. I don't write for other people. I write for my own therapy. And so when lyrics come out, I'm not thinking about, what kind of hook is this? And, you know, is this going to resonate with this age group? And, you know, I'm not thinking about any of that. I'm just, what am I feeling and what do I hear as I'm feeling it? And that's how I write. So, and it's become very relatable, I guess. And that, that was a little aspect I wasn't expecting.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Great. yeah yeah i gift
Amy Gould: And, ⁓ sorry, I was going to say the other part of all of this was prior to, you know, meeting my ex-husband, I was in bands and I was writing lyrics and vocal lines, but I wasn't writing the music. Even though I could do it, I had been doing it as a child. I never had the confidence to do that. You know, I was young and still kind of finding out who I was still when all that hit me. So when I came out, it was, it was a very vulnerable thing to do. I was really nervous about actually taking these songs to the band. And every time for the first couple of years, I would write something new and I'd bring it to the band. like got this ball of anxiety in my stomach. Like, I want to play this and they're going to be like, what are you thinking? Like, that's not metal. We can't make that metal, you know, like this is stupid, you know, and they didn't, they were always like, okay.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: We can work with this. Let's go and let's take it. And I'm like, you know, like, oh my gosh, I'm a songwriter. So, you know, I got that confidence that I didn't have before. So in some ways, you know, I wouldn't go back and ever do that experience again, but it has made me who I am today. And I am using what I learned from that to hopefully make the world a better place. I don't know. That sounds cheesy, but
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no not at all. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I want to help people too. still have that savior complex, guess. I want people to be happy and healthy. And if I see a woman going through what I went through, I'm like right away, you pick up on it pretty quick now as a victim. And I want to help people. So if my music helps one person get out of one of those situations, then I feel like mission accomplished. I can die happy.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, amazing. And how's your sun getting on now, Amy?
Amy Gould: You know, he is, starting to heal. ⁓ he was much more severely affected, ⁓ than I was because when I, I was already in my twenties and kind of knew who I was starting to become when it happened, he spent his entire life until he was an adult in this situation. ⁓ he developed some pretty severe mental health issues that are very complex. He's also autistic. So he's on the autism spectrum, ⁓ which made it harder for him to get the right kind of therapy to help him. So, ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Amy Gould: ⁓ You know, we actually, one of the things when he got diagnosed as a child with the autism, ⁓ I reached out to everywhere I could to try to learn as much as I could about it. And what I learned was, you know, he's not broken and that's not a problem. He's neurologically different. So we celebrate neurodiversity here. yeah, and so.
Tracy Cox: Yes. Fabulous.
Amy Gould: sometimes, you know, his autistic brain is much more sophisticated than mine. I'm not neuro-typical either, though. I may be able to see some all over the place. You probably tell by the way I talk.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. No, not at all.
Amy Gould: But he, ⁓ so, but that did actually make it way more difficult to find somebody who knows how to work with an autistic brain and trauma. So he's got a really good fit right now and he's starting to kind of ⁓ come out of it a little bit, but it's been a, it's been a long haul for him. He's definitely had it harder than I have. ⁓ So we're getting there, but all by little.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, of course. Yeah and that's really positive news as well because it does take time and I know it must have been difficult for you at that time but you look amazing now and it sounds like everything is slotting into place for you and I'm actually going to listen to the album and send it to my daughter because she loves metal and yeah because she used to play it on the car and I'd like ⁓ my gosh let's put some rave on.
Amy Gould: Thank you. ⁓ great, thank you. Yeah, and I honestly like our metal is we call it they, know, accessible metal. It's it's more like some of the stuff of the early heavy metal in the 80s in terms of its heaviness. So it's not, you know, sometimes it can almost just be in the hard rock, you know, edge. So it's between you. I think I sing melodically. I'm classically trained, but I don't sing like an opera singer where a lot of metal singers do. I could, but I choose not to.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: actually have a little bit of grit to my voice and I like to use that. The old school like Pat Benatar and Ann Wilson and those kind of people were kind of shaping my vocals back in those days. So that's where I'm at. So we kind of have a very unique sound today and I think it's a good thing. So we're definitely a different kind of metal band today.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Right, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm going to take a look and I'm going to put the name of the album in the bio as well so people can go and take a look and download it as well. But do know, something's just passed through my mind as it does because I am a bit neurodivergent, is I was thinking, ⁓ what kind of song would be Classically Trained? What song, could you bring to the table then? Maybe a kind of, yeah. Who used to sing that song actually? What's that word? ⁓ it's a very grey video.
Amy Gould: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ It's kind of heavy metal. It is heavy metal. Wake me up. Evanescence, that's the one. Yeah. Would you be able to do something like that?
Amy Gould: from, ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, Evanescence, yeah. ⁓ we, we kind of, ⁓ I don't have that voice. mean, I, I could, like I said, ours, ours is kind of, ⁓ gosh, I wish I had somebody really good to compare myself to because I don't sound like anybody else. ⁓ I'm a little bit raspier and a little bit more, ⁓ gritty. Like I said, ⁓ if you listen to some of old Pat Benatar stuff, I'm probably a little bit more like her. ⁓ but maybe a little bit more.
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Amy Gould: grittier than that. But along those lines, you know, she was my, she's still my idol. I, you know, she, I grew up wanting to be her. So I found out she was classically trained and I was like, I want to be just like that. I need to get voice lessons, mom, you know? So I originally, I originally went to school for music when I was younger and I ended up dropping out to be a rock star. So, but I went back years later for something else. But yes.
Tracy Cox: Brilliant. Yeah. ⁓ wow. yeah, that's amazing. I you do. Yeah. Yeah, great. Well, I'm probably going to edit some of that anyway and just take some of that out, but it was a kind of you and me conversation. But it's been amazing having you on the show today, Amy. I'm, the story that you've gone through kind of touched my heart as well because I have worked with domestically violent relationships beforehand and I've seen the impact that that kind of relationship has and the understanding of it all. So it must've been a really difficult time for you, but I'm so pleased where you're at now.
Amy Gould: Okay. That's fine. That's okay. Thank you. It was. Thank you. I guess that I feel like I've totally come out on the other side of it now and I'm happy. So.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. And that's all you need.
Amy Gould: Yeah, exactly. I'm very happy with my career. I ⁓ didn't know what would happen. Trying to get back into the music industry at an older age and doing what I'm doing. I've just every step that we make that takes us closer to being a bigger name. It's just amazing to me. I just feel like I said, blessed every time I see streaming numbers go up, I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, there's another milestone. We're like, we are just coming. I'm like, I'm so happy. Thank you.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, Yeah. Brilliant. That's really good. Well, thank you for coming on the show today, Amy. And yeah, and I'm looking forward to listening to your music.
Amy Gould: Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having me. really appreciate this. This is a great. I've liked I've wanted to tell this story for some time in this aspect. And so this is amazing. Thank you.
Tracy Cox: Well, thank you for sharing it with us. Thank you.
Amy Gould: Hey, thank you for having me. I'm doing well, thanks. It is very cold in Erie, Pennsylvania this morning for May, but...
Tracy Cox: Good, good, you're very welcome. ⁓ is it? Yeah, well it's the same in Spain actually, it's quite cold over here at the moment. Yeah, unheard of, but yeah. We'll survive.
Amy Gould: Is it? Yeah. Yeah, it'll be summer soon.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, we keep holding on to that. So, Aang you've got a really inspirational story and you've been through quite a lot as well. We've discussed it very, very briefly beforehand. ⁓ Yeah, and I'd just like to kind of explore that more with you today, if that's okay, about obviously a music career that you had ⁓ and kind of where your trajectory or your direction was changed along the way. So, where do you want to start from?
Amy Gould: So I will give the high level overview, I guess. ⁓ I am a musician, I'm ⁓ a female metal singer, ⁓ also classically trained. So I've been doing the gamut of music my whole life pretty much. But in my late teens, I started getting into the rock music and into bands and fronting metal bands in my early 20s. So I was kind of on this trajectory. ⁓ I was in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area at the time and I was starting to like make a name for myself a little bit. Um, it wasn't huge. Nobody really, it was a big, big pond, little fish. Um, but I was kind of on my way. Things were starting to move each, each band that I was in, um, started to get a little bit more progress and I, um, started doing a lot of the writing in the terms of it was all original music. So I was starting to write the lyrics and the vocal lines and the songs and
Tracy Cox: So Wow, how old were you then Amy?
Amy Gould: I was in my very early 20s, I want to say the, I started at about 18 and then I was probably about 23 when I stopped doing it. Around 24 maybe, 24. I met my ex-husband and that's where things took a big turn and a change in my life.
Tracy Cox: Sure. Okay.
Amy Gould: So, ⁓ I was, he was another musician, ⁓ friends with a band that I was in. We got to know each other. I had been engaged to somebody else previously. It was not a bad situation, but it was just, we weren't right for each other. So after a few years, we broke up. was devastated and I was young girl thinking this was it, you know, and, my ex husband kind of swooped in. Now he had known me for a while. ⁓ he had gotten to know pretty much everything about me because
Tracy Cox: Okay. Yeah. So.
Amy Gould: I was really close friends with the guys in my band and he was friends with them and so a lot of times he hung out with us. When I first met him, I was like, I don't like this guy. He's kind of a jerk.
Tracy Cox: Sure. Yeah, I think we all have those moments.
Amy Gould: Yeah, and so I kind of had that in my head. And then all of a sudden he started to change around me. And this is when I was kind of vulnerable after being in this relationship that I thought was going to be a marriage and didn't work out. And ⁓ he kind of started to court me, I guess you would say. ⁓ And all of a sudden, here was this guy who I thought was a total jerk, who seemed to be almost like my Prince Charming. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Okay.
Amy Gould: So we started to date. Mean I can remember our first date. It was like everything that I loved he loved it was like ridiculous like the amounts of things that we had in common I was like, who are you because I would have never seen that from you before so it's confusing but at the same time it was awesome I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, here's this guy, know, I'm a big Disney fan. I go big Disney junkie I love to go to Disney World and things like that. And so he's like, ⁓ I love all the Disney I love all those movies I love and I was like really cuz that's normal that
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: You hear from guys in our age, you know. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: Just things like that. right away it was like this whirlwind romance. I think it was probably a month and he asked me to marry him. And I was like smart enough at that time, I guess, to know that wasn't right. But not smart enough to know what a predator looks like. So ⁓ he, you know, I did put him off. I remember calling one of my best friends at the time and saying, hey, what do I do? What do I do? He wants to like get in the car and drive to one of
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow. Mm-hmm. ⁓ okay.
Amy Gould: states that just allows you to walk in and get married. And she, she, and I'm like, you know, I know I love him. I know he's like, he's the one. and she was like, if he's the one, he'll still be the one in six months, you know? And I'm like, you're right. You're right. So I said, no, not now. And so, but the romance just continued. And as it went on, he started working on me and turning and pitting my band against me. So he didn't want them to know that I was dating him.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: He didn't want and he said, you know, it's gonna make them angry and all these things and so it put me in this really awkward Triangle situation, you know where I couldn't be myself around my bandmates and it was getting very awkward I was having to lie and I that's not me. I don't like to lie and So we got to the point where
Tracy Cox: Of course, yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: He I said to him, know, like I can't keep doing this. I'm not going to keep hiding this. They're my best friends, too. You know, I've been with these guys for how long and we're like a family and you know. And so he says, well, don't you tell them because I'm I was your friend first. Let me tell them. And I was like, OK, well, it takes the heat off me a little bit. So he went and supposedly had this meeting with them and supposedly they got really, really angry. And. Yeah, and.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, Okay.
Amy Gould: it just got very awkward and so I just quit.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ no. And had they got angry? Do you know if they had got angry or not? Right, okay.
Amy Gould: They did not. Yeah, I think, you know, I've actually reconnected with the guitar player from that band recently and we've talked a little bit. He was just pitting us against each other. His goal was to pretty much take me away from all of it. You know, you know, 2020 hindsight, I now know he is...
Tracy Cox: Right, okay.
Amy Gould: somebody with actual narcissistic personality disorder and also antisocial personality disorder. He got diagnosed with both of those in our marriage time. ⁓ and so he was, he's like basically for all intents and purposes, a sociopath and, but I had never met anybody like that in my life. So I had no idea it blindsided me because they come in like you're Prince charming and sweep you off your feet. And it's a swirling romance. And before you know it, you're in so deep, you don't even,
Tracy Cox: Wow. Yeah.
Amy Gould: know that you're in it anymore. ⁓ So anyway, I ended up dropping out of that band. did try to be in another band for a short period of time after that. And every time, you know, I would go to rehearsals and things like that, I'd come back and tell him what it was like. And he would work on me and try to convince me that they weren't appreciating me or it wasn't good enough. You know, there was something wrong with the situation so that I would be like, yeah, you know, and it started to be stressful for me because I'm thinking, yeah, you know, he's right. You know, I'm probably not being treated right.
Tracy Cox: Right, yeah.
Amy Gould: Right, yeah, they're probably gonna just dump me anyway. He worked on my self-esteem.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ gosh, yeah.
Amy Gould: Meanwhile, he was working on my self-esteem all around. started out when I came into that, other than being fragile from a breakup, I was actually very self-assured. And I just completely changed. He started to criticize my looks. Like I can remember him telling me, yeah, you know, I almost didn't date you because I don't like your chin. And I'm like, what's wrong with my chin? He's like, well, it's just pointy and it's weird. you know, but one of my friends told me I was being too shallow. So I can overlook that now. And I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, like, you know,
Tracy Cox: Oh gosh. Yeah, yeah. Right, okay. Yeah.
Amy Gould: So I started to worry about what I looked like and I hadn't, I just lost all sense of self in this relationship. So after that, yeah. ⁓ you're good.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. It sounds like, sorry Amy, I was just gonna say, just going back to that, because Gnosis-ism is thrown around a lot nowadays on social media, et cetera. But it sounds like he, and I'm not a therapist, and I will just disclaim that now, but it sounds like he love bombed you for that month and mirrored your behavior in order to get you to connect, because obviously you were connecting on a level where he was basically copying your behavior.
Amy Gould: Yeah. Right, exactly. You nailed it.
Tracy Cox: and then the chip-chip-chipping away, the dismissive and the kind of trying to get you away from anybody that could support you. Yeah, it sounds awful. How are you feeling at that time then?
Amy Gould: At the time I was feeling very burnt out. remember feeling like...
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Amy Gould: I, this music career just isn't for me. It's too stressful. It's burning me out. can't seem to make any headway with it. Um, you know, but gosh, at least I have this really awesome relationship. So I was, you know, he was sweeping, you know, he was helping break, you know, clean up the broken pieces of my career by pulling me out of the career and then making it seem like he's my savior. So, um, at the time I felt supported by him in a really strange odd way, even though I was getting no support.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah. Of course, yeah.
Amy Gould: for him whatsoever if it seemed like I was. ⁓ And then it, you know, it just kept going from there. ⁓ I completely gave up music. Like I did nothing. And I am, I will tell, you know, people a lot of times in interviews, music is part of, part of who I am. It's like my identity. And I don't go a day without picking up some sort of instrument ⁓ and doing something or singing or something. And I did then.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Soon. Yeah.
Amy Gould: just completely fell out of it. ⁓ got real career focused. I was working a day job at a medical software company and I got really involved in that and I became sort of just work focused ⁓ and then relationship focused. And it was always about making sure he had everything he needed. And I'm a caretaker by ⁓ default. And ⁓ so it just became my life taking care of him.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Amy Gould: And then somewhere along the lines, ⁓ he started working on me about becoming a mother and I never had any intentions. In fact, when people found out that knew me from my earlier life, that I was pregnant or going to be a mom, they were like, what? How'd that happen? And I'm like, well, it was planned, you know, and they're like, you, because I had this idea. I want to be an artist. I want, this is what I want. This my, my career would have been my life. You know, I just.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I love doing the music stuff so much that that isn't like, I'm a workaholic. It's no, this is what makes me me. And I saw that as like becoming a parent is an okay thing, but I had other things in mind that I wanted to do and I knew I couldn't be a good mom and do these things. So.
Tracy Cox: So. Right, yeah. So something had to give.
Amy Gould: He talked me into it somehow. He got me believing that I was the one. ⁓ And so ⁓ we tried and got pregnant pretty quickly. And I don't regret it. I love my son. My son's amazing. But I became basically a mother and a caretaker to him. ⁓ Somewhere in my son's, you know, a little bit older.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: getting to be preschool age, ⁓ I fell upon a local chorus in our town ⁓ where I could maybe have as an outlet. And he fought me on auditioning for it because he didn't want me not being. home all the time to take care of the kid. So I actually worked from home all those years. Like I was working full time raising my son who actually turns out to be on the autism spectrum, which is a whole nother story, but so it was challenging and I was working full time and I was raising my son and, but I had no outlet. Like I had nothing. So
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I did, I just kind of, there was still part of me in there that was still me. And I was like, you know, I don't care what you think, I'm gonna go audition for this chorus. And I got in and ⁓ I was with them for quite a few years, but it was always very challenging. So it was a classical situation. ⁓ I was like, I actually was a soloist there and it was awesome. I really enjoyed my time there.
Tracy Cox: Amazing. Yeah.
Amy Gould: He started making that difficult to the point where ⁓ using our son as triangulation. so by doing that, would, you know, ⁓ make my son's life difficult. He's on the spectrum. So sometimes that would make it even more difficult with behaviors. And I would end up having to leave rehearsals or having to not even do a concert because of things. And he it just so hard. ⁓ So that's kind of...
Tracy Cox: Okay. Yeah. From the understanding of the triangulation that it makes you the perpetrator at times, him the victim, you know, and then you've got the coach as well. So at that time, what was he pitting you for? Were you the perpetrator? You were the one leaving your son. You were the one that was abandoning. What kind of was he saying to you at that time?
Amy Gould: Basically what he was doing is he was kind of harming our son and without me kind of knowing that it was happening, he was psychologically doing it a lot of the times ⁓ and then causing my son's behaviors to be so severe that I needed to intervene. And a lot of times I was sort of the buffer between the two of them and a lot of times.
Tracy Cox: Okay. So he was the perpetrator.
Amy Gould: Yes, he was the perpetrator for sure. And he would cause behaviors in my son, which would cause my son's behaviors to become aggressive. And I would get in the middle of this, of ⁓ a grown adult and a child trying to stop this. And so, yeah, I had to be there as a peacemaker all the time. And that became my role. Yeah. So.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, be the peacemaker. Yeah, that's hard. Really hard for you.
Amy Gould: I still tried to do things here and there. did a little bit of like theater, local community theater, musical theater, trying to just something, you know, every once in a while I'd get a night out with some girlfriends and we'd go do karaoke and I'd go do it and they'd be like, who are you? I've been singing classical with them, you know, and I pick it up, you know, I'm a metal singer, you know, rock and metal is my thing. And they were like, who are you? Wow, you can do all these things. And I'm like, this is...
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's mad. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I was supposed to be at one time in my life, but you know, you know, reality check, blah, blah, blah, you know. Yeah, I just convinced myself that all of that was my choice. And, you know, so I really and and during this entire time frame, ⁓ I guess I to go back a little bit when I was young, very young, I started writing music at the piano when I was probably like eight or nine years old. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Okay, so you kept pushing it down. Right. Yeah. That's incredible.
Amy Gould: Thank you. I mean, it was goofy little songs, but you know, and then by the time I was an early teen, they were all like, my boyfriend broke up with me songs, you know? But yeah, I actually have one song that I still remember how to play and I actually...
Tracy Cox: Of course, yeah.
Amy Gould: had somebody actually learn how to play it in school because they thought it was so awesome and you know it actually isn't a bad song it's a little it's a little bit of a you know i don't know teenage love drama song but it it's still i'm proud of the the orchestration of it um maybe someday that would be fun like my little side project amy's old music from when she was 12 yeah
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Maybe you should release it, Amy. Maybe this is your sign to get it out there. Yeah, definitely. I'm sure there's some teenagers out there that need it.
Amy Gould: It's probably a little different than what they're listening to today but yeah. I, anyway, so was writing all that time and then when I got into this marriage I had complete writer's block. I couldn't write. And I remember sitting at my piano and I just didn't know what to do. I'd try to like get some sheet music maybe and learn how to play something but I just had no...
Tracy Cox: Probably.
Amy Gould: I don't know what way, like no ⁓ energy or whatever it was, the motivation wasn't there. And so it just got sidelined ⁓ for all those years. And it was a lot of years. I was in that marriage for over 20 years. ⁓ So it was a very long time. And at the end, thankfully, probably the last five years of it, I knew what was happening to me finally, but damage done. Unfortunately.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, And that's the start of the awakening, isn't it? I think when you start seeing the red flags and questioning things as well. yeah, I mean, I don't know what your marriage looked like, Amy, but I'm guessing that it wasn't happy towards the end. And maybe you realized through your son. I mean, at the end of the day, what was it that woke you up and went, that's it, I can't do this anymore?
Amy Gould: now. That's exactly it. He had a way of manipulating emotionally. ⁓ and he was very, really good at crocodile tears and feigning empathy. and one time though, you know, you can see through the cracks sometimes, but when it's happening to you, it's harder. But when you see it as a third person and you see it happening to your child. And all of a sudden that mask came off of him and I went, ⁓ this is not what I thought it was. And now it's all making perfect sense. I can remember I, you know, I'm still going through all
Tracy Cox: Okay. Yeah. Right.
Amy Gould: these things where he's being ⁓ angry. You he used anger to control us. and, know, I remember it just being really awful. And I thought, I wonder if I'm being abused. And it just kind of popped in my head that maybe his, ⁓ his behaviors were abusive. I mean, he'd had some hospitalizations. We'd had police at our home. you know, I literally, you know, not to get too graphic, but
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow.
Amy Gould: When we moved out of that home, before we moved out of the home, my son and I were living there alone there after some at the end. ⁓ I painted the walls in the hallway because there was literal blood stains on our walls. It was just horrific. Everything that happened there. ⁓ yes, there was physical, there was every type of abuse that you can you can add to it. Thank you. Thank you. ⁓
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow So there was physical abuse there. ⁓ no, ⁓ no. I'm really sorry to hear that, Amy, because nobody should have to go through that.
Amy Gould: So anyway, but I I lost my train of thought with the painting the walls thing. ⁓ so starting to realize that there might be abuse here, I
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: I went online and I just Googled like abuse and the ⁓ abuse hotline in the United States came up and I was like, I don't want to call this, you know, but they had like a chat, like a, like a chat window online that you could do. And I thought, ⁓ my God, like I was sitting out. I remember with a laptop sitting out on our, patio, he wasn't home, but I was like so nervous like to do this. And I opened a chat and I said, I'm just trying to figure out like if I'm being abused or not. And so they were really, really nice and helpful and
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: Excuse me, I just gave them a high level overview, know, like not even because at the time most of the most of the abuse that was physical was directed at our son, but there was some at me. ⁓ But so it was confusing for me because I didn't know about emotional abuse at that point. So the mental abuse, which apparently can be just as bad, if not worse sometimes.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was just going to say, I think it's worse, the mental abuse, because the minimization of their behavior ends up transcending onto you. So you minimize, make excuses, and your brain goes, oh, yeah, this isn't abuse. This is just normal anger, or this is normal family, or normal relationships. And it's not, not at all.
Amy Gould: Yeah, and it also makes you feel like, ⁓ you know, there's something where I knew there was something wrong with him, but my empathy kicked in and I was like, he just needs help. So I became on mission to try to get him the right kind of help to help him be a better person.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. The rescue hour.
Amy Gould: the rescuer. Yeah. And of course, you know, he didn't want the help, you know, it wasn't a matter of him like, ⁓ wow. I didn't realize that I was this person. I need to do better. It was like, no, I'm do I'm doing these things because it gets me what I want. And so, but I spent a lot of time with like, you know, making sure he had psychological appointments and psychiatry appointments. years later, I found like it was like a tackle box full of pills. He never took them.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. ⁓ no, okay, yeah.
Amy Gould: You know, he hit them. Yeah, you know, was all just a big facade. But yeah, I got on there and they were like, yeah, you're absolutely being abused. We want to you in touch with our local agency. And they brought up the information. They're like, please give them a call. And I was like, OK, yeah, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to go. There's no way I'm being abused that bad that I need to call our local abuse agency.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. ⁓ well.
Amy Gould: So it took me a little while. And things kept, you know, as things do sort of when you start to push things and you start to push back a little bit, they get worse. ⁓ and so finally I did call them, ⁓ and it was probably a couple months later and they were like, we really like for you to come down here. ⁓ and your son too, if, and, and have a meeting it's, you know, we will do this secretively. He doesn't have to know that you're doing it. ⁓ you know, it's very discreet. We're back in this little Plaza. Nobody will even know you're there.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: Meanwhile, I have a fire orange Prius, so I'm letting my car... Everyone's know where I am at all times. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah, it's going to get spotted.
Amy Gould: So, but luckily it was like in this area that like, you know, your car's not even, you know, nobody's going to notice it. ⁓ but my son wasn't ready to do anything. So I went myself and I started seeing basically a therapist there, ⁓ social worker who I would go and get therapy weekly with her. And we would talk about what my options were. And at the time, ⁓ I really needed a protective,
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: ⁓ what do you call it, a protective thing from, yeah, yeah, they call it like a protection from abuse thing through the court system. ⁓
Tracy Cox: FIGGAR FIGGAR Yeah, right, okay, yeah.
Amy Gould: But in our state, in the US here, everything's sort of, each state has their own laws about all these things. There is no protection for emotional abuse. The only types of protection you can get are for physical or sexual violence. And you have to be able to pretty much prove that that's happening to you. So what they will do is they'll give you a protection that's temporary until you get to court and then a judge will decide whether or not there's evidence for this protective order. ⁓ And it is kind of a serious thing when you get one of these because it actually bans the person from the home. They're not allowed on the property. Even if they own the home, it doesn't matter. And then it goes on their record, know, a criminal record. So they were counseling me and saying, you know, you really need one of these, but we're going to be honest with you about it. They don't often give them for emotional abuse.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. And so it should.
Amy Gould: And I was like, okay. And at the time my son was still underage. So he was considered a child. I was terrified about that. I was worried that they would say, you know, this doesn't happen. You're not, you're not being abused. And now he knows that I've done this and now he knows that I'm seeking help and he's going to take my son and they're, and I'm not going to be able to save my son, you know? So that was terrifying for me. I was so afraid to do it. So I didn't.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah. Okay.
Amy Gould: So I started just kind of working on him at home. I had at that point cut off any type of physical relations with him. And I was just, they call it gray rock method in abuse where you just become so boring to them that they have nothing to fight with.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Okay, I've not heard of that before, but that's interesting.
Amy Gould: Yeah, it's like for people who are kind of stuck in situations, especially like custody situations with their ex abusers, it's a method that they use because they're always trying to get you to be reactive. And so you just stop being reactive. You start just being a matter of fact about things, almost like a robot with them. So I started being more like that with him. But in the meantime, it was getting kicked up because he knew he was seeing that I saw through things and taking it out.
Tracy Cox: EIM. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, he'd been found out.
Amy Gould: Yeah, taking it out more on our son. It took me five years to get out of that at that point. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Wow. How old was your son at that time, Amy? And what impact was your husband's behavior having on him?
Amy Gould: It was, it's terrible what my son has had to endure. So he was at the time when we finally got out, was 18. But prior to that, he, you know, he was about, you know, 16 or so. Even, I guess, from 14 to about 18, you know, that area of time was when we were.
Tracy Cox: Right, okay. Yeah.
Amy Gould: really getting worse. Like I actually kicked him out of the house. ⁓ At one point he stayed at a local like motel down the street for a month. ⁓ But he loved bombing again. He came and sat on the back patio with me and cried crocodile tears and promised, you know, it would be different that he, you know, he knew that there was something wrong with him and he was getting more help and all these things and told me all the things that I wanted to hear.
Tracy Cox: Yep. Yeah, and it's so easy to believe. So easy to believe.
Amy Gould: Yeah, especially when you're like, okay, you're trying not to break up the family and you're trying to figure out what is best for your child. you know, probably everything for me, I didn't even care about me anymore. It was just trying to save my kid. And I let him back in and it got a hundred percent worse. Like the next day he moved back in and it was just worse abuse. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Wow.
Amy Gould: you know, breaking things and throwing things. At one point I, I actually ⁓ started to be concerned because our pets were sick a lot. We had cats and we lost a cat due to a bleeding ulcer in his stomach and nobody ever knew what caused it. ⁓ But we had all these times, like all of a sudden our cast would just start vomiting and vomiting up blood and ⁓
Tracy Cox: Right. Okay.
Amy Gould: We, I just didn't know what was going on. We were at the vets all the time and the vets were like, we have no idea what's causing this. So they kept putting the cats on medications to try to help it. It wasn't helping. ⁓ And then my ex-husband went away for a weekend and the cats were fine. And then he came home and the cats immediately were sick again. So he was poisoning our pets. We finally found that out.
Tracy Cox: Right, right, okay. ⁓ no.
Amy Gould: And I, he said, there's no way I'm doing that. You know, and I confronted him because I, know, my cats are my babies too. So I am, we installed, he agreed to it. We installed cameras in the house so that he could prove he wasn't doing it. Well, you know, he manipulated those too. ⁓
Tracy Cox: So so.
Amy Gould: So anyway, but I had, know, a couple of times he lost it, you know, angrily. And I had some pretty violent stuff on recording, or he picked up a chair and he went to go take a kitchen chair or dining room chair and he was going to hit my son with it.
Tracy Cox: Right, okay.
Amy Gould: and I got my son out of the way. ⁓ And he broke like a chandelier. I mean, it was just insane. So I got stuff like that on camera. when we finally, after all that, I'm still getting counseling from these agencies and ⁓ they were like, you probably have enough between what you're telling me that's happening to your son. If nothing else, he has enough. And so he was 18 at the time as an adult, he could also get a protective order.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic.
Amy Gould: So we finally did it. ⁓ And that was just the turning point of my life getting better. It became...
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Can I just ask Amy when you left because I know that in my mind you'd be like, yay, I'm leaving, that's it over. Did you crash though and did you have that grieving period?
Amy Gould: it's interesting because I didn't have a grieving period, so to speak. he, ⁓ actually not long into the protective order started to stalk us. So, um, yeah, I mean, was just a lot of things that were going on. So I didn't really have a lot of downtime, interestingly enough, I look back now and I know my initial gut instincts about him were right. And I never loved him.
Tracy Cox: Oh no. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: And I thought I was so deep in love with this man. I would have done anything for him. But I now look back and I was like, that never felt like love actually. And when I got out, I was relieved. There was no sense of, ⁓ my gosh, I love him so much. I just want to call him again. I was just done because there wasn't love. It was just manipulation for all those years. The love I had was for my son. And that was it. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yourself.
Amy Gould: Yeah, yeah. And I started to, you know, try to figure now that not to say that I snapped out of it was like, wow, everything's great. It wasn't even even after we got protective orders and things, you know, he still continued to terrorize us indirectly without being able to get caught. And there's just so much. ⁓
Tracy Cox: No.
Amy Gould: We found out later that he probably was poisoning our son at one point because our son had a lot of health issues and they could never quite pinpoint. And some lab results came back a little weird that his pediatrician picked up on. And we can never pinpoint it. And now we look back and go, ⁓ well, that's probably what's happening right there. ⁓ So there was all those things and it's just like. Was just great to get out of that, but that was in 2018. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: And so I was still trying to still recover. It's like being sick for 20 years, you know, and trying to start to feel like a human again. I didn't even know how to be me anymore. didn't know who me was anymore. And, you know, I was doing a lot of, I still do therapy today, ⁓ but I was doing therapy and trying to, you know, figure it all out.
Tracy Cox: Mmm. Yeah.
Amy Gould: And then one day I looked at my piano and it's all dusty and I hadn't touched it in forever and there was a notebook sitting there because a couple times I sat down and tried to write and I just couldn't. But I had a couple chords written down and I was like, there must be something here.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Amy Gould: So I just started to like, I call it noodling around on the piano and all of a sudden this writing surge came back. all just, it was like, it was amazing. It was like that flow that you hear about where people don't even know how they're doing it. It just happens. Like it's like almost like something's writing through you. And I just wrote so many songs. They just came one right after another, right after another. And I was like, this, that was my therapy. Like I'm getting therapy therapy, but this was,
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: the big therapy. This was the one that I needed and I found out who I was again and I had all this music and I'm like I need to do something with this. ⁓ my gosh I'm supposed to be in a band. That's what I'm supposed to be doing right now you know and my son's old enough now so I can you know I can do these things and so then the pandemic hit.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Oh no. Oh dear.
Amy Gould: But it was okay, because it gave me even more time to sit and write. And a lot of the songs that I wrote in my band now were born out of that. But of course, at the time, I had no access to people other than online. So Facebook was sort of my everybody's at that point way of communicating. And I met my partner now during the pandemic online.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ wow.
Amy Gould: We had gone to grade school together and we didn't really know each other. ⁓ But he saw that I was friends with a whole lot of musician friends from the same town that we were from. And he's like, hmm, do I know her? And that was his in to kind of flirt with me.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Gould: And so, you he's a musician as well. And so we just started talking. And so we did Zoom dates for a while during the pandemic and finally met up and, you know, we actually hit it off really well together. And he was, you know, telling me he was a bass player, musician. And I'm like, okay, you know, I got all this music. I want to put a band together. And at the time I'm thinking like, I've never seen you play bass. I don't know if you can play bass. It's kind of a funny side story, but eventually he did play.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ excellent, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Can he play bass?
Amy Gould: Yes, he does. He is actually the bass player in my band. yeah, we sort of started the whole band together. ⁓ But yeah, he it was a little frightening because I thought, ⁓ gosh, now I'm in deep with this guy. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Amazing, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: you know, and what if he's terrible? I'm going to have to say, no, you can't be in my band. So thankfully he's really good. But yeah, I mean, so I met him and like, ⁓ I finally found out what love actually was. It was, it was wonderful. Somebody who built me up instead of tearing me down. And not to say we haven't had our issues. I mean, there's been a lot of things that we've been through together as a couple, ⁓ and still continue to go through today, but
Tracy Cox: Yeah, we're breaking up. Amazing
Amy Gould: It was the night and day of somebody treating me like I mattered and I felt beautiful for the first time in 20 some years. Like I, you know, I always thought that I was like really not attractive and because he had just destroyed every ounce of self-esteem that I had. ⁓ know, I didn't I knew the only thing that I ever was able to hold on to was that I was a good singer because I was still doing some of that, you know, all during the marriage.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: But everything else kind of fell back into place. I started to feel like a sexy woman again, you know and so yeah, it was that was sort of the turning point and I Started looking for band members. So that's where the story sort of comes and brings us to where I'm at today
Tracy Cox: Yeah. That's amazing. And do you know something? It sounds like you were broken down by this man and you come across now, Amy is very, very confident. So I can imagine what you were like before you'd met him. But it seemed that music just kept pulling you through, you know, that time for yourself, that connection that you had, which was still that part of you. Yeah. And that's kind of kept with you. And now that suppression of the emotions and that kind of suppression of you, now that
Amy Gould: right.
Tracy Cox: gone it's all come back again which is just amazing and you know you've met somebody as well that's got something in common and I think that's the main thing is that he's supporting you he's holding you up rather than pushing you down so yeah and you look amazing you're very attractive and your hair is amazing I'm tempted to get the blue the blue and the red I know the audience won't be able to see it but it is really beautiful so yeah
Amy Gould: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's, that's. ⁓ thank you. you. Yeah. You know, I mean, here I am in, you know, my later life here and I decided, you know, what the heck. ⁓ I still have life to live. there's times where I'm really resentful and I look back and I'm like, I want those years back. I want to be that age again. I want my body to be that age again. I want my mind where it is now. I don't want to give up what I know. That's important. But I would love to have my 25 year old body back. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, we all do. Yeah. We all were, Amy.
Amy Gould: You know and just even even for stamina purposes and things like that, you know, no arthritic pain, please. That would be great. But yeah, I mean, it's just I feel very blessed. I guess that I'm where I am today. I had no idea what would happen. ⁓
Tracy Cox: Sure.
Amy Gould: I guess we haven't really talked about it, but my band is called Eden on Fire and we're a metal band that's up and coming in the industry. So we're starting to make a name for ourselves. ⁓ We, I, you know, I said, I got together with Scott's my partner, the bass player in the band, and we found the right people for the beginning. ⁓ They weren't exactly the right people in the end. A couple of people have left and we've replaced. And now I think we have a really, really right good people. But we, started.
Tracy Cox: Amazing. Yeah. Okay. Great.
Amy Gould: writing, know, and I brought all these tunes that I'd written during the pandemic and prior to that and and revamped, revised them and that became like our first album and it's called Unresolved.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow, and what's your album called? ⁓ wow, and is that part of your life prior to ⁓ bringing the band together again? Is that about your relationship? Wow.
Amy Gould: Yeah, so I would say... 90 % of that album is ⁓ some of it's about things that I was dealing with because of being in that relationship. Like we have a song called Wake the Monster and that's about me being triggered. And so after all this, you know, I do have, you know, PTSD and I'm, you know, I'm, I would say it's resolving now, but I came out of that relationship with it severely. And of course, when you get into a new relationship, I mean, it was two years before I got into a relationship again. So I gave myself a lot of breathing time.
Tracy Cox: Right. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I was not ready. I actually thought at one point that I was just done with ever having those kinds of feelings again, because I was just so damaged from that relationship. But you heal and eventually that all comes back. But ⁓ yeah, so when you get into that new relationship, you have no idea.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you do.
Amy Gould: what is going to happen when somebody does something or, you know, he says a word or something that he doesn't think, you know, doesn't know that it's a problem for me. And I don't know what's a problem for me until it happens. You know, Yeah. So anyway, we have songs like that on there. ⁓ There's a couple of songs where, you know, Scott and I had some moments and, know, I that's how I process. So when I'm upset about something, I sit down at the piano typically. But now I play a little guitar. So I'll sit down with the guitar and I just start screaming.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Gould: scribbling lyrics and writing. And that's how I process everything.
Tracy Cox: And that's amazing.
Amy Gould: Thank you. and that's why, you know, it's interesting. I always, I always joke with people, you know, don't upset me or you're going to end up in a song because it's really what happened. It's just exactly what I do. It's just how I get through everything. And like, we have a song that we just released a week ago and you know, it's an angry song about stuff that I've dealt with in the music scene. And so I was really mad one night I came home and I was like, oh, this song, you know, like, it just came out.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Right.
Amy Gould: And I actually wrote the guitar riff for it and everything and I it's a it's I think it's gonna be one of our best songs we've done so far So yeah, it's doing quite well. So but yeah, so The first album though, I would say most of it. I have a song called Fallen That was our first release and it's our only ballad that we have so far and it's very dark It is about that time in my life where I was at that. I was at the end
Tracy Cox: ⁓ wow. Amazing. Right.
Amy Gould: was on the verge, ⁓ you know, trigger warning. But I did have a suicide attempt during all of that. ⁓ He actually caught me mid of that and waited a few minutes until I was passing out. And I remember seeing the smirk on his face before that happened. And then he got me help. ⁓ yeah, so that kind of stuff. That's okay.
Tracy Cox: Yes, yes. ⁓ gosh. ⁓ yeah. I was going to actually ask you, sorry Amy, what was the lowest point, but I think you've just answered my question. Yeah.
Amy Gould: That was it. Yeah, that was it where I he was torturing our son so badly and I couldn't protect him and I just felt like a total failure as a human being and I just couldn't I just wanted it to stop. I just wanted all the noise to stop all the pain, all the everything to stop. And of course, I wasn't thinking clearly about like, what about my son? I just I just needed it to stop at that moment. And that was Fallen is actually about that. And it's interesting because
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Amy Gould: We released that as our first ⁓ release in the band. We did singles a little bit before we released the album and it was our first single and it was kind of a risky one because we're a metal band. We're melodic. So we're kind of old school metal. We're not some of today's like hardcore, but.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: We had a radio station that heard us play it live and they were like, we hope that you have this song available for us. And I'm like, well, it wasn't going to be the one that's available, but we'll make that happen to get it on the radio. So we did. And it became a hit like here locally and we played a good airplay with it out in the world and it's still getting played. But I've had so many people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, Fallen, I relate so strong to that song. And I'm like, don't relate to that song. It's a terrible mom.
Tracy Cox: You Yeah, Great, Wow. Oh gosh, yeah, because you know the situation you're in. Yeah, oh wow.
Amy Gould: Yeah, but again, so many people have been at that point in their life. Maybe, you know, it's not like it blatantly calls out suicide in the song, but it talks about my mental state at that time, where I was. I wrote it introspectively, so it was after the fact, ⁓ you know, years later. ⁓ I wrote it, you know, during the pandemic, which my ex had been gone for several years. But, you know, I had told my mom, I was like, hey, ⁓ just so you know, I don't feel like this
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: now when you hear this song that was how I was then. But yeah, so there's some pretty dark stuff on there. That's the darkest and it's interesting because it's the ballad and it's the one that's probably got the most airplay of all their songs to date.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Wow. So your pain went to somebody else's game at the end of the day. I mean, how incredible is that, sharing your story through music and for others to be able to relate to that and for it to help them as well.
Amy Gould: Yeah, yeah, and that's... Yeah, and it's... It's one of those things where I think that's why our formula is working so well with our music. I don't write for other people. I write for my own therapy. And so when lyrics come out, I'm not thinking about, what kind of hook is this? And, you know, is this going to resonate with this age group? And, you know, I'm not thinking about any of that. I'm just, what am I feeling and what do I hear as I'm feeling it? And that's how I write. So, and it's become very relatable, I guess. And that, that was a little aspect I wasn't expecting.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Great. yeah yeah i gift
Amy Gould: And, ⁓ sorry, I was going to say the other part of all of this was prior to, you know, meeting my ex-husband, I was in bands and I was writing lyrics and vocal lines, but I wasn't writing the music. Even though I could do it, I had been doing it as a child. I never had the confidence to do that. You know, I was young and still kind of finding out who I was still when all that hit me. So when I came out, it was, it was a very vulnerable thing to do. I was really nervous about actually taking these songs to the band. And every time for the first couple of years, I would write something new and I'd bring it to the band. like got this ball of anxiety in my stomach. Like, I want to play this and they're going to be like, what are you thinking? Like, that's not metal. We can't make that metal, you know, like this is stupid, you know, and they didn't, they were always like, okay.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: We can work with this. Let's go and let's take it. And I'm like, you know, like, oh my gosh, I'm a songwriter. So, you know, I got that confidence that I didn't have before. So in some ways, you know, I wouldn't go back and ever do that experience again, but it has made me who I am today. And I am using what I learned from that to hopefully make the world a better place. I don't know. That sounds cheesy, but
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no not at all. Yeah.
Amy Gould: I want to help people too. still have that savior complex, guess. I want people to be happy and healthy. And if I see a woman going through what I went through, I'm like right away, you pick up on it pretty quick now as a victim. And I want to help people. So if my music helps one person get out of one of those situations, then I feel like mission accomplished. I can die happy.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, amazing. And how's your sun getting on now, Amy?
Amy Gould: You know, he is, starting to heal. ⁓ he was much more severely affected, ⁓ than I was because when I, I was already in my twenties and kind of knew who I was starting to become when it happened, he spent his entire life until he was an adult in this situation. ⁓ he developed some pretty severe mental health issues that are very complex. He's also autistic. So he's on the autism spectrum, ⁓ which made it harder for him to get the right kind of therapy to help him. So, ⁓
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Amy Gould: ⁓ You know, we actually, one of the things when he got diagnosed as a child with the autism, ⁓ I reached out to everywhere I could to try to learn as much as I could about it. And what I learned was, you know, he's not broken and that's not a problem. He's neurologically different. So we celebrate neurodiversity here. yeah, and so.
Tracy Cox: Yes. Fabulous.
Amy Gould: sometimes, you know, his autistic brain is much more sophisticated than mine. I'm not neuro-typical either, though. I may be able to see some all over the place. You probably tell by the way I talk.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. No, not at all.
Amy Gould: But he, ⁓ so, but that did actually make it way more difficult to find somebody who knows how to work with an autistic brain and trauma. So he's got a really good fit right now and he's starting to kind of ⁓ come out of it a little bit, but it's been a, it's been a long haul for him. He's definitely had it harder than I have. ⁓ So we're getting there, but all by little.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, of course. Yeah and that's really positive news as well because it does take time and I know it must have been difficult for you at that time but you look amazing now and it sounds like everything is slotting into place for you and I'm actually going to listen to the album and send it to my daughter because she loves metal and yeah because she used to play it on the car and I'd like ⁓ my gosh let's put some rave on.
Amy Gould: Thank you. ⁓ great, thank you. Yeah, and I honestly like our metal is we call it they, know, accessible metal. It's it's more like some of the stuff of the early heavy metal in the 80s in terms of its heaviness. So it's not, you know, sometimes it can almost just be in the hard rock, you know, edge. So it's between you. I think I sing melodically. I'm classically trained, but I don't sing like an opera singer where a lot of metal singers do. I could, but I choose not to.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Gould: actually have a little bit of grit to my voice and I like to use that. The old school like Pat Benatar and Ann Wilson and those kind of people were kind of shaping my vocals back in those days. So that's where I'm at. So we kind of have a very unique sound today and I think it's a good thing. So we're definitely a different kind of metal band today.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Right, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm going to take a look and I'm going to put the name of the album in the bio as well so people can go and take a look and download it as well. But do know, something's just passed through my mind as it does because I am a bit neurodivergent, is I was thinking, ⁓ what kind of song would be Classically Trained? What song, could you bring to the table then? Maybe a kind of, yeah. Who used to sing that song actually? What's that word? ⁓ it's a very grey video.
Amy Gould: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: ⁓ It's kind of heavy metal. It is heavy metal. Wake me up. Evanescence, that's the one. Yeah. Would you be able to do something like that?
Amy Gould: from, ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, Evanescence, yeah. ⁓ we, we kind of, ⁓ I don't have that voice. mean, I, I could, like I said, ours, ours is kind of, ⁓ gosh, I wish I had somebody really good to compare myself to because I don't sound like anybody else. ⁓ I'm a little bit raspier and a little bit more, ⁓ gritty. Like I said, ⁓ if you listen to some of old Pat Benatar stuff, I'm probably a little bit more like her. ⁓ but maybe a little bit more.
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Amy Gould: grittier than that. But along those lines, you know, she was my, she's still my idol. I, you know, she, I grew up wanting to be her. So I found out she was classically trained and I was like, I want to be just like that. I need to get voice lessons, mom, you know? So I originally, I originally went to school for music when I was younger and I ended up dropping out to be a rock star. So, but I went back years later for something else. But yes.
Tracy Cox: Brilliant. Yeah. ⁓ wow. yeah, that's amazing. I you do. Yeah. Yeah, great. Well, I'm probably going to edit some of that anyway and just take some of that out, but it was a kind of you and me conversation. But it's been amazing having you on the show today, Amy. I'm, the story that you've gone through kind of touched my heart as well because I have worked with domestically violent relationships beforehand and I've seen the impact that that kind of relationship has and the understanding of it all. So it must've been a really difficult time for you, but I'm so pleased where you're at now.
Amy Gould: Okay. That's fine. That's okay. Thank you. It was. Thank you. I guess that I feel like I've totally come out on the other side of it now and I'm happy. So.
Tracy Cox: Yeah. And that's all you need.
Amy Gould: Yeah, exactly. I'm very happy with my career. I ⁓ didn't know what would happen. Trying to get back into the music industry at an older age and doing what I'm doing. I've just every step that we make that takes us closer to being a bigger name. It's just amazing to me. I just feel like I said, blessed every time I see streaming numbers go up, I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, there's another milestone. We're like, we are just coming. I'm like, I'm so happy. Thank you.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, Yeah. Brilliant. That's really good. Well, thank you for coming on the show today, Amy. And yeah, and I'm looking forward to listening to your music.
Amy Gould: Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having me. really appreciate this. This is a great. I've liked I've wanted to tell this story for some time in this aspect. And so this is amazing. Thank you.
Tracy Cox: Well, thank you for sharing it with us. Thank you.
