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All the Borrow P Embit podcast with Seamus
Madan.
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Welcome everyone
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back to another app episode of the Embid
podcast.
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I'm your host, Shamus Madan.
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And today, we have a very special guest, the 1
and only David Abney, who is the former
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chairman and CEO of UPS.
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David's story is anything but traditional.
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At the age of nineteen years old, he began his
career as a part time package loader at UPS.
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Little did he know doing so with start off his
trajectory to CEO and leading 1 of the largest
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package delivery companies in the world?
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So first off, thank you David for taking the
time to join the show.
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It's a pleasure to have you on.
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Well, thank you, Seamus, and I have a feeling
there's gonna be a time down the road people
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gonna be saying them one and only, Shamus.
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So I'm looking forward to seeing that.
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Thank you very much.
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I appreciate that.
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But, yeah, let's start off with you know, your
journey and how you first came across UPS.
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And why'd you initially decide to join the
company?
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Well, Thanks for asking.
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I was eighteen years old.
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I was a freshman in college.
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I need to work to go through college, and I had
a friend that referred UPS to me.
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At that time, you gotta remember this was 1974.
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I don't know that I'd ever seen a UPS truck.
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I'm sure I'd seen him on the street.
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I don't remember any of them ever coming to our
house.
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And, so I didn't know a lot about it, but I did
the interview.
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And I thought it'd be a great college job.
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I didn't think any further than that.
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The pay was higher than what grocery stores and
retail stores were the the work was gonna be a
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lot harder to, but I didn't know that.
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So that's really the way that I got to start
it.
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I tell my wife we've been married forty years.
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We were dating at the time that I took the job
at UPS to have beer and pizza money for with
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her.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I noticed you ended up saying there's obviously
for a significant period of time for decades in
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fact, but you told the story at a conference
before how you wanted to be a history
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professor.
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But after about a year into the job, your
manager changed your mind and convinced you to
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stay at the company.
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What did he say that compelled you to shift
your career trajectory and stay at UPS?
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That is a interest story, and, I give him full
credit.
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So I was nineteen years old, and I did have an
affinity and still do for history.
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In fact, I'm a board of curator or a board of
directors, you'd call it for the Georgia
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Historical Society, so I'm still very involved
in history.
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But the 19, I had this manager of a local
Mississippi of depot that took some time 1
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night and put his arm sleep, put his arm on my
shoulder.
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It's a very casual conversation and started
telling me about this great company about UPS.
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They just didn't know how.
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Found it and what it believed and where it was
going.
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And then Shamus, he started telling me what a
great person that I was.
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I'd only been working there maybe 8 months, and
he started giving me all these positive
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attributes and nobody other than my parents had
ever talked to me about that kind of stuff.
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And they have to.
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Right?
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They're you're paying.
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But, yeah, but by the time he got through that
night, the terminology for years is I became
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brown blooded because of UPS Brown.
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From that day forward at nineteen years old, I
knew I wanted to spend my career at UPS.
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And how did that journey eventually lead up to
becoming the CEO of the company?
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And through that journey, what would be some
advice you'd have For maybe the next generation
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who are looking forward to advancing their
careers, maybe they're starting off at a
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similar place where you were back in the day.
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What would be your advice to those people?
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Okay.
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I well, I did start as a part time motor, which
meant I was I was at the most beginning job.
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All jobs at UPS are important.
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I was certainly at the lower end of that scale.
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I sure didn't have a grand scheme to become the
CEO.
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In my neighborhood in Mississippi, there were
no CEOs.
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I can tell you that.
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I'm not even sure what I've known what a CEO
was.
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And, I did know that that this was a national
company at the time.
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Now it courses an international company, but
the time was a national company.
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Had a great reputation, and they strongly
believed in promotion from with that.
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So that is how people really grew in this
company.
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So I committed to myself that I was gonna go as
far as I could possibly go, and I was gonna do
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everything possible to get there.
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And, obviously, within the rules, regulation,
stuff like that, And I'll just give you a
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couple examples because, you know, they're
gonna be different examples for your viewers or
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your listeners, but it's still So at eighteen,
nineteen years old, if I would find out, we
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were gonna have a big visitor coming into our
building from from another office I would come
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in on my own and and scrub the floors clean and
wax them, and I would have that old building
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that we had look like it was brand new, at
least from before, anyway.
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And no one told me to do it, no one asked me to
do it.
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Is just the kinds of things that I did, and I
wasn't even doing it to be recognized.
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But obviously people recognized it.
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And and I'll give you another example.
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So I graduate from college.
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I'm 21.
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And at that time at UPS before you went to
management, and it's still a path a lot of
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people take you would drive as a package driver
first.
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So we moved everything we had at 74 Monte Carlo
and and moved 5 hours down to the miss Sydney
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Gulf Coast, and I became a driver.
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And I was one of 8 drivers, the least senior
driver, of course, because I was brand new.
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And and right after that, maybe 3 months later,
UPS moved the supervisor out of that office and
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decided to have a driver that would be a lead
driver that would dispatch the center and would
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take care of things as they drove.
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Now to this day, I don't know if the seven
people had more seniority than me turned it
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down, so I was the last choice.
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It was the first choice because of what they
recognized.
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I have no idea.
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They asked me to be the lead driver And so here
I am dispatching drivers that have been there
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for years, and I barely had seniority.
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The thing that makes the story a little unique
is that Sundays, we would only have enough work
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for 7 drivers.
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I would lay myself off and my wife thought she
had married maybe the least smart person.
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I'm putting this in my storage that existed.
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Because we were living paycheck to paycheck at
the time, and I'll never forget the question of
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who lays themselves off.
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But we didn't have enough work to do.
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I did that.
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And in a very short time, I was promoted into
management, and I know that there were people
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at UPS who said, hey.
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If this guy's willing to lay He's willing to do
a lot of things.
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And then just to give your listeners an idea,
you know, we moved 8, 10 different times I
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worked nights, 10 years.
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I mean, it's not like I went from being a part
time loader to a driver, to a CEO, and a very
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quick period of time.
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It was about a 35, 40 year journey, but it was
one step at a time, and and I had to be willing
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to step to the play at each of those times.
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But I was surrounded with such a network of
good UPS employees and managers that coached
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and helped me.
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And every time UPS would take me out of comfort
zone.
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I would have people that would help me in the
next job.
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And this would be the last store.
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I'll tell about that and let you go home, but
so I spent my first three moves were in
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Mississippi that I did the big move.
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I thought to Nashville, Tennessee, Las
Mississippi.
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Then we got transferred to New Jersey.
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And, Seamus, when you go up in Mississippi and
a little bit of Tennessee, transferring meat in
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New Jersey.
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It was like transferring meat to a foreign
country.
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You know, I say in New Jersey is far, and some
people would say Mississippi is far.
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It does.
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Depends on your perspective.
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I'm just telling you, I was so far out of my
comfort zone and thank god there was just a lot
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of good GPS just to help me along the way, and
I would have never become CEO if I couldn't
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have made that kind of step.
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But during the process, I'm going what in the
world if I got myself into.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you made a couple of key great points
and the key takeaway from that.
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You always have to put in the work and take
that extra hour, that extra day, or that extra
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step like you did with mopping the floors when
you had the big guest com.
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All those can end up compounding up to really
make a big difference.
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But the next thing is, you know, I've had the
opportunity to speak with a few different
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startups in the logistics space, including one,
although very early, is doing something pretty
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interesting.
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That's building underground tunnels in cities
to help decrease traffic.
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And move packages from one end of New York City
to the other in just a matter of a couple of
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minutes.
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I know UPS are combined with the use of drones
by UPS was, I believe, the first to receive the
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FAA part 135 certification standard by which
regulators approve return delivery as we see
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all these new technologies with drones and
underground packagiliary.
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What do you see for the future of logistics?
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I can tell you that I think we're earning the
most exciting time ever of, logistics.
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Now I'm saying that as I've retired, right,
when I look at potential, and I look at where a
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lot of these technologies will lead us.
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I believe that whether it's 10 years or 15
years, that we're gonna see more change than
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we've seen in the last 100 years.
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It's just that exciting.
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A lot of that will certainly be driven by AI.
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Right?
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And it just gives possibilities and can play
scenarios that you just couldn't do prior.
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And now you have to take all that data, and you
have to be able to apply it to real world
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situations but but that's coming and is coming
quickly.
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And, you know, drones and other forms of of
automated delivery are going to just make a big
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difference, and they're probably gonna come a
lot quicker than you think.
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Doesn't mean it's gonna replace the driver and,
package car anytime soon, but it's going to to
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supplement.
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And and you're gonna see more automation and
buildings, and it's just gonna be much more
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efficient.
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And and I don't know that anybody that can see
far enough out that could tell you in 15 years
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what what we're gonna be doing because it's
gonna change that quick.
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And and there's gonna be reluctance to change
But this is not a status quo world that we live
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in.
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You can't stay the Shamus.
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And if you do, nobody's just gonna know who you
are a company a few years because you would be
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passed up.
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So I just think for people, your age, The the
exciting opportunities that are gonna be out
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there are just gonna be pretty incredible.
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Absolutely.
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And we saw that a little bit with Black Buster
and Netflix when Netflix started taking the
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world by storm.
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Blackbuster CEO actually laughed the co
founders out of their office saying the
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internet just would never work.
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And they ended up being the ones to go out of
business.
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So I agree with you on that.
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You gotta stay up with the pace of innovation.
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Or you will be left behind.
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I think it's very important especially when you
have listeners that may start their own
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businesses Madan.
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And you can look at that.
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You can say, man, did Blockbuster miss that?
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And and you could say that Kodak did the same
thing with them and and stuff like that.
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The problem that business is based is when you
are in a existing situation and you are being
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extremely successful.
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And you are the market leader, and you're
making all kinds of money.
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Then your purpose, without you even realizing
it, it's just trying to make sure that the cash
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cow or the golden dust just keeps delivering.
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Right?
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And so sometimes you can get blind to the fact
that things are gonna change right in front of
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your eyes, and it's not because you're not
smart and you can't figure things out is
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because you can get so focused on your being
the market leader and you wanna continue that
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that then you just lose it and you lose it
quickly.
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So I'm not defending anybody, but I can sure
see how it happens.
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Go ahead.
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I didn't mean to interrupt you.
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Yeah.
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No.
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Those are some some great points.
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And even if Blockbuster ended up did acquire
Netflix during that meeting, we still would
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have never known where it could happen.
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Netflix might never have ended up going on to
be the leader that it was today, mainly because
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of the cultures that were in those 2 different
firms clashing together, the Black Boxer could
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have, kept down the culture of innovation for
Netflix, which could have really changed the
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dynamics of at play.
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One of the interesting facts I came across is
that UPS trucks rarely take left turns and
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actually prefer taking right hand turns.
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And the numbers show it's around 90% of
estimated truck make right hand turns over left
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hand turns.
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Why is this a genius strategy in terms of in
efficiency and why does UPS do it?
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I get asked about this all the time.
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So you're very observant, and so are a lot of
other people And and I'll tell you is it's
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pretty simple when you do all the modeling.
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And right hand turns versus left hand turns
visualize being in your car today.
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You're at a red light.
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If you're making a right hand turn, then you
can turn in most states, bearing a red light,
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and, and you don't have oncoming cars that are
facing you coming At the same time, you're
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doing those turns.
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When you're doing left hand turns, first place,
you can't turn left on red, socket.
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When he does turn green, you've gotta let every
car come by first.
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So from a safety standpoint, there's a lot more
intersection acts that's by turning left than
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there ever are by turning right.
239
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And and when you think about it, it's pretty
obvious as as to why.
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And then second, from an efficiency standpoint,
you're talking seconds, if not 30 seconds or
241
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more, at each turn, which you can think, or
somebody's being a little anal if they're
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spending that much time on just making a turn,
But when you take if an average driver would
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have 200 stops a day, we'll just say they They
turn 200, 250 times a day.
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And if there's a 125,000 or so drivers, times,
you know, the number of days in a year, you can
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get to be between 510,000,000,000 turns.
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If you're saving a few seconds per turn and if
you're saving just a few accidents per 100000
247
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hours, You are just making one tremendous gain
there.
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So so there's an a little bit of art there's a
whole lot of science.
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And since we cover all areas, you can design
the network to go right to left, or you can
250
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design the network to go left to right.
251
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You'd be out of your mind to do it left to
right, but you could.
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And so that's what's driven then.
253
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Gotcha.
254
00:16:29,804 --> 00:16:29,964
Yeah.
255
00:16:29,964 --> 00:16:31,024
It's super fascinating.
256
00:16:31,164 --> 00:16:36,100
And one of the key, I think, themes that have
come across when I've interviewed a lot of
257
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these CEOs is the topic of partnerships,
especially maybe earlier earlier in the
258
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company, but you've had partnerships with big
companies such as Apple, Amazon, and Macy's.
259
00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:52,250
How have those partnerships played a valuable
role for the development of the business?
260
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You know, partnerships to any business are very
important.
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Then the fact that I have retired from UPS for
over 2 years or so, obviously, I wouldn't be
262
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talking about existing UPS partnerships, but I
can talk about keys to making partnerships so
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successful.
264
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And the first thing is that You've gotta have 2
companies that that have mutual ambitions.
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In other words, they can define success in a
very similar manner because if success is
266
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defined by one partner quite differently than
the other, it's just not gonna ever work.
267
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You've gotta have a vision that allows you to
do that.
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2nd is is there's gotta be reasons that
everyone wants to do it.
269
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Some of our best partnerships at UPS or where
we provided logistics services to us but there
270
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are customers provided goods and services back
to the so now you're not doing it just in one
271
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direction, but you're doing it in 2.
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Everybody's just a little bit more motivated
when you do that.
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Then you have to agree on the metrics and you
have to make sure that the metrics that you
274
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carry on are reasonable.
275
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And then you have to make sure that the benefit
is very similar for each company.
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If you try to get too greedy and you try to
make the benefit much better for you than for
277
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your partner, then it's just not gonna last.
278
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You may think you're a better negotiator, and
maybe you are in short term, but you you just
279
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run the partnership.
280
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And so those are some of the things that are
secret, but let me tell you what really was an
281
00:18:38,634 --> 00:18:44,315
important partnership with UPS because
everybody thinks about the big customers, and
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we do have the big customers.
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But we just have hundreds of thousands of small
and midsized companies, companies that that you
284
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may know if they were, you know, in whatever
town you grew up in or something, a little
285
00:18:59,654 --> 00:19:03,835
small mom and pop shops, but nobody else is
gonna know.
286
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:11,080
With our system and our technology, being able
to partner with these hundreds of thousands of
287
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,505
small companies, is where UPS adds its full
value.
288
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And it allows these little companies to operate
as if they're much big.
289
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Like, they have worldwide networks.
290
00:19:22,769 --> 00:19:27,889
And and there again, you just gotta make sure
that the value proposition is good on both
291
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sides.
292
00:19:29,809 --> 00:19:30,309
Absolutely.
293
00:19:30,545 --> 00:19:34,865
And, you know, one of the things that can come
with growing a company, especially as you
294
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scale, is acquisitions.
295
00:19:36,384 --> 00:19:40,910
So during your time at UPS, you had the
opportunity to oversee multiple acquisitions.
296
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And during the acquisitions, one of the things
that can happen is you have 2 different company
297
00:19:45,609 --> 00:19:47,365
cultures under one roof.
298
00:19:47,365 --> 00:19:52,585
How did you manage the various combinations of
cultures and missions to make them synonymous
299
00:19:52,804 --> 00:19:54,505
across thousands of employees?
300
00:19:55,940 --> 00:20:03,460
You know, you have to do it very carefully, and
everyone knows that blending cultures is very
301
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difficult.
302
00:20:04,315 --> 00:20:10,154
And everyone's got a theory, but until you
actually do it, it's just hard to realize how
303
00:20:10,154 --> 00:20:12,015
difficult it can be.
304
00:20:12,315 --> 00:20:17,460
Fortunately, over the last 20, 25 years of my
life at UPS.
305
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:23,255
I was involved in all the major acquisitions,
but I actually got to run 2 of them.
306
00:20:23,654 --> 00:20:30,855
And that was where we would acquire a smaller
company, and the owner of the company would
307
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stay for a certain amount of time.
308
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And then they would go on to other things, and
I got to run those companies.
309
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And I got to learn firsthand the importance
culture.
310
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I got to learn firsthand that that the UPS way
is not always the right way in all situations.
311
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:54,809
And, there's a few things that you can do to
increase your success.
312
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First, is you've gotta do your due diligence
before you ever make the acquisition.
313
00:21:00,744 --> 00:21:05,404
There are just some companies that just can't
go together.
314
00:21:06,105 --> 00:21:09,244
Cultures are just too completely different.
315
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:12,190
And and you've gotta recognize that.
316
00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:17,170
And when you realize that's not gonna happen,
you gotta have the courage to walk away.
317
00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:22,434
You know, you can fall in love with deals But
if you see, it's just too much of a difference.
318
00:21:22,434 --> 00:21:23,315
It's not gonna work.
319
00:21:23,315 --> 00:21:24,534
You gotta walk away.
320
00:21:24,755 --> 00:21:26,615
You're walking away from both sides.
321
00:21:26,809 --> 00:21:29,869
When you do it, but you gotta be willing to do
that.
322
00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:38,554
The other thing is you really have to look at
the mission of the company And then you compare
323
00:21:38,554 --> 00:21:39,515
it to you too.
324
00:21:39,515 --> 00:21:46,769
In my case, UPS's mission and and where are
their commonalities and where can you continue?
325
00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:50,289
And then you have to look at where are things
different?
326
00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:56,034
And can they continue to be and do they provide
additional value?
327
00:21:56,034 --> 00:22:00,375
And if they do, you've gotta know when not to
change things.
328
00:22:00,434 --> 00:22:01,095
You know?
329
00:22:01,549 --> 00:22:03,410
It's so easy to have a blueprint.
330
00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:07,549
You say within 5 years, I'm gonna change
everything.
331
00:22:07,549 --> 00:22:13,515
But if you do that, Why didn't you just build a
business from the ground up instead of
332
00:22:14,294 --> 00:22:15,255
acquiring a company?
333
00:22:15,255 --> 00:22:20,029
What you're trying to do is acquire the very
best of these companies.
334
00:22:20,569 --> 00:22:28,105
And then you maintain that, and then you fit
that within the supply chain of of the pair in,
335
00:22:28,585 --> 00:22:29,805
UPS in my case.
336
00:22:30,265 --> 00:22:31,785
And so that's the key.
337
00:22:31,785 --> 00:22:38,820
And one of the things you have to do is quickly
identify in these companies, the people that
338
00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:45,964
are just so important because I can tell you
that when you do an acquisition, If you divide
339
00:22:45,964 --> 00:22:52,845
employees in 3 categories, a big load generic
here, but if you do, those who are absolute to
340
00:22:52,845 --> 00:23:00,009
the best of the best, Those who do a good
average job, and then those who are on the
341
00:23:00,009 --> 00:23:07,575
lower end of that When you do an acquisition,
the people that are most at risk are the people
342
00:23:07,575 --> 00:23:10,349
that cost you to buy the acquisition in the
first place.
343
00:23:10,429 --> 00:23:12,269
Because they're just so talented.
344
00:23:12,269 --> 00:23:13,329
They're so important.
345
00:23:14,349 --> 00:23:18,595
But a lot of other people know they're
important too, and they offer them all kinds of
346
00:23:18,674 --> 00:23:22,694
special things, and they tell them you're gonna
get lost in a large company.
347
00:23:23,234 --> 00:23:26,534
And so you really have to focus on those
people.
348
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:33,509
And the people that you're least likely to lose
are the ones that aren't doing a very good job
349
00:23:33,509 --> 00:23:36,170
because they see the stability of a big
company.
350
00:23:36,555 --> 00:23:41,195
And they hope they can continue to just kind of
do just enough to get by.
351
00:23:41,195 --> 00:23:45,035
And if you've gotta lose people, those are the
ones you'd rather lose.
352
00:23:45,035 --> 00:23:48,320
Hopefully, you can convert them and get them to
be big believers.
353
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:52,620
But that top of the top, we call them top
notches.
354
00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:55,394
You can call them whatever you want to.
355
00:23:56,015 --> 00:24:00,515
Those are the people you have to keep if you're
gonna have a successful acquisition.
356
00:24:01,859 --> 00:24:02,259
Gotcha.
357
00:24:02,259 --> 00:24:03,460
That makes a lot of sense.
358
00:24:03,460 --> 00:24:05,460
And, you know, it's something we saw a little
bit.
359
00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:08,660
We talked about it before with Elon Musk when
he acquired Twitter.
360
00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:13,234
He one of the mistakes he ended up making was
actually firing a lot of the top executives and
361
00:24:13,234 --> 00:24:15,795
yet to struggle to get some of them back.
362
00:24:15,795 --> 00:24:18,934
But as we wrap it up here, what would be some
of your takeaways?
363
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,099
For the next generation looking to advance
their career.
364
00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:24,920
Oh, god.
365
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,634
I'd love to talk about this, and I can warn
your listeners in advance.
366
00:24:29,934 --> 00:24:36,174
There are some things they're gonna like that
I'm about to say, and there are some things
367
00:24:36,174 --> 00:24:42,190
that many of them will not So the great thing
about it is if they can choose to turn us off
368
00:24:42,190 --> 00:24:49,204
or they can keep us on, but but I really feel
There's some key things that I need to say.
369
00:24:49,345 --> 00:24:52,644
1st, I I have real hope for this next
generation.
370
00:24:52,865 --> 00:24:57,490
You know, I am not one of these older guys it
it turns all lower.
371
00:24:57,490 --> 00:24:58,769
The world has gone down.
372
00:24:58,769 --> 00:25:03,269
People don't care the way we cared, and that
the world's in big trouble.
373
00:25:03,785 --> 00:25:05,484
I don't see that at all.
374
00:25:05,545 --> 00:25:13,559
I see this generation has a a big excitement
level for making the world better that they
375
00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:14,279
live in.
376
00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:17,640
They think things haven't been done as well in
certain areas.
377
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,460
They're right.
378
00:25:18,855 --> 00:25:24,154
And I think this generation wants to be the
generation that's going to to change that.
379
00:25:24,855 --> 00:25:31,929
They also this generation has more access to
knowledge and information than any past
380
00:25:31,929 --> 00:25:32,429
generations.
381
00:25:32,890 --> 00:25:37,210
When I was your age, if I wanted to find out
something about different part of the world, I
382
00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:38,414
went to cyclopedia.
383
00:25:39,515 --> 00:25:42,974
You probably don't even know what they are,
maybe you'd send a garlic.
384
00:25:43,355 --> 00:25:46,315
And I would open it up, and and that's what I'd
read.
385
00:25:46,315 --> 00:25:52,630
Unfortunately, compete, you'd be ten years old
or more, but but that was how I learned.
386
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:57,894
Now this generation can learn things the minute
it happens.
387
00:25:57,894 --> 00:26:00,634
Now they also learned a lot of things that
didn't happen.
388
00:26:00,694 --> 00:26:03,194
They get reported as this happened.
389
00:26:03,609 --> 00:26:09,549
So there's a lot more misinformation out there
than there was when I was your age, but there's
390
00:26:09,609 --> 00:26:12,515
so much more information.
391
00:26:13,535 --> 00:26:21,669
And as long as people are continuous
improvement, and and they are intellectually
392
00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:29,785
curious to where when they see there's things
they don't know that they find out about those
393
00:26:29,785 --> 00:26:33,725
things, then those are the people that are
gonna have more success.
394
00:26:33,945 --> 00:26:37,299
Others are gonna try to bluff their way through
like, they know stuff.
395
00:26:37,299 --> 00:26:38,200
They don't know.
396
00:26:38,420 --> 00:26:42,660
The only person they wind up fooling at the end
of the days themselves, because people that
397
00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:49,054
really do know they they detect impostors
quickly so you don't fool anyone.
398
00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:52,815
And but here's what I really want your
listeners to hear.
399
00:26:52,990 --> 00:26:55,470
And this is where some of them may not like it.
400
00:26:55,470 --> 00:27:02,894
But the first truth in life is opportunities
are earned.
401
00:27:03,275 --> 00:27:04,974
They are not given.
402
00:27:05,515 --> 00:27:12,419
There are too many people in this world that
can be 20 years later saying I never got my
403
00:27:12,419 --> 00:27:17,994
opportunity, and that's because they were
waiting for somebody to hand it to Shamus, it
404
00:27:17,994 --> 00:27:20,095
just doesn't happen that way.
405
00:27:20,154 --> 00:27:22,394
And then you're a good example of that.
406
00:27:22,394 --> 00:27:26,095
I met you obviously in a very big event.
407
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:30,890
It's a Columbia Business School at the Doming
Company, and you were helping out there.
408
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:35,269
If you were in a room, I don't know if you were
waiting on us or if you were just there anyway,
409
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:36,250
it doesn't matter.
410
00:27:36,455 --> 00:27:37,494
But you were in a room.
411
00:27:37,494 --> 00:27:38,695
You were there to help us.
412
00:27:38,695 --> 00:27:39,914
You made some differences.
413
00:27:40,134 --> 00:27:41,115
You took initiative.
414
00:27:42,134 --> 00:27:47,130
And then after that fight, you asked me to be
part of that podcast.
415
00:27:47,829 --> 00:27:49,029
I just have to tell you.
416
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:52,410
I get too many requests for me to be able to do
them.
417
00:27:52,815 --> 00:27:54,194
And do all opportunities.
418
00:27:55,134 --> 00:28:00,494
If you hadn't made an impression on me on what
you were doing, there's just no way I would
419
00:28:00,494 --> 00:28:02,174
have taken the time to do this.
420
00:28:02,174 --> 00:28:06,740
So There's a small way you Madan think, but you
earned that opportunity.
421
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:12,545
By the time this podcast is over, you may
regret it, but you you earned it anyway at
422
00:28:12,705 --> 00:28:15,525
That's why I'm here, but you cannot wait.
423
00:28:15,664 --> 00:28:16,884
It can't be given.
424
00:28:17,184 --> 00:28:18,404
There's no entitlement.
425
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:25,100
And and people that think they're entitled for
something, they're just gonna be surely
426
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:25,900
disappointed.
427
00:28:26,884 --> 00:28:30,105
It's a very competitive world that we live in.
428
00:28:30,484 --> 00:28:38,930
And if you don't differentiate yourself, If you
don't stand out, you're never gonna get the
429
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:45,315
opportunities that that you feel like you
deserve And so you've got to go above and
430
00:28:45,315 --> 00:28:49,575
beyond, and you have to figure out what above
and beyond means.
431
00:28:49,930 --> 00:28:56,430
But if it's not more than what other people are
doing, it is not going to work.
432
00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:59,945
You've got to continuously get better.
433
00:28:59,945 --> 00:29:07,320
There's nobody that's a finished product, Madan
you have to realize that But then there's some
434
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,140
personal social skills you gotta know too.
435
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:12,059
1 is you gotta be humble.
436
00:29:12,654 --> 00:29:18,335
And I know that there's some movie
generalizations and stuff about CEOs, how they
437
00:29:18,335 --> 00:29:19,154
can be.
438
00:29:19,535 --> 00:29:25,559
In some cases, they are gonna high on
themselves or or stuff like that.
439
00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:31,244
Bob Toni, in the real world, if you're gonna be
successful leading people, You've gotta be
440
00:29:31,244 --> 00:29:31,744
humble.
441
00:29:31,884 --> 00:29:34,785
You've got to have a servant attitude.
442
00:29:35,005 --> 00:29:40,920
You've gotta show people you care about the You
show people you care about them.
443
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:45,880
They will show you they care about you, and
they care about the company.
444
00:29:46,764 --> 00:29:53,024
That means that when things go right, if you're
a leader, you always give your people credit.
445
00:29:54,169 --> 00:29:59,710
And if all you do is bang on your own chest,
everybody's gonna realize what you're doing.
446
00:29:59,769 --> 00:30:05,654
If you give people the credit they deserve, 1,
they will follow you anywhere.
447
00:30:06,115 --> 00:30:09,554
And 2, by the way, the people above you,
they're gonna know what you're doing.
448
00:30:09,554 --> 00:30:13,700
You don't have to tell them, you know, You just
tell them how great your people are and what
449
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:14,440
you've done.
450
00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:19,640
On the other hand, and this is very difficult
for some people.
451
00:30:20,154 --> 00:30:29,019
When things go bad and they do in every job,
they do when things go bad, a true leader takes
452
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,299
responsibility for things going bad.
453
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:34,059
Doesn't make excuses.
454
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,019
Doesn't point someone out.
455
00:30:37,375 --> 00:30:43,455
Doesn't try to have a scapegoat, doesn't fire
somebody that's innocent so that they can,
456
00:30:44,735 --> 00:30:45,235
continue.
457
00:30:46,015 --> 00:30:48,859
But They take the play.
458
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,600
They learn from it.
459
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,859
I learn much more from my mistakes than I ever
learned from my successes.
460
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,805
There's no doubt about that.
461
00:30:58,105 --> 00:30:59,404
You learn from it.
462
00:30:59,545 --> 00:31:01,965
You try not to make the same mistake again.
463
00:31:02,744 --> 00:31:04,125
You set high goals.
464
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,519
This thing about setting low goals and beating
them.
465
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:09,059
Anybody can do that.
466
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:14,595
Setting high goals and beating them very few
people can do that.
467
00:31:14,974 --> 00:31:18,835
And you've got to be persistent and determined.
468
00:31:19,535 --> 00:31:23,500
You cannot let things get in your way.
469
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:30,460
And what I mean by that is we're all gonna have
mitigating circumstances that come up.
470
00:31:31,524 --> 00:31:39,370
That can be an excuse not to succeed, or we can
take ownership of the problem.
471
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:46,365
Figure out how we get around it or how we
mitigate it to some degree, but It's a big
472
00:31:46,365 --> 00:31:52,204
difference between being an owner of your
situation and being a victim of your
473
00:31:52,204 --> 00:31:52,704
circumstance.
474
00:31:53,400 --> 00:32:00,519
And and the true leader is gonna be the one
that is going to take charge and is going to
475
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:01,660
make things happen.
476
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,335
So I know I've said a lot.
477
00:32:03,335 --> 00:32:04,375
You may have some questions.
478
00:32:04,375 --> 00:32:10,695
You may have some things you wanna add to that,
but I just want you to know that there's a lot
479
00:32:10,695 --> 00:32:13,039
of your listing that are gonna do great things.
480
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,279
There's not a doubt in my mind.
481
00:32:16,059 --> 00:32:20,000
They've got and you said it very early at our
broadcast.
482
00:32:21,465 --> 00:32:24,445
They've got to be willing to do the hard work.
483
00:32:25,065 --> 00:32:28,684
If they just think it's gonna come easy, it's
not.
484
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,000
Yeah.
485
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,680
That's a great thing to leave off at.
486
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,859
I think, you know, you always have to be
actionable.
487
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,484
I think the other thing that can always play
well with success is as you mentioned a little
488
00:32:38,484 --> 00:32:43,045
bit earlier, the people skills and just being
able to network and talk with other people and
489
00:32:43,045 --> 00:32:44,404
provide value in that network.
490
00:32:44,404 --> 00:32:46,244
But, yeah, you left it off at a great point.
491
00:32:46,244 --> 00:32:47,059
Alright, everyone.
492
00:32:47,059 --> 00:32:48,420
Wraps it up for today's episode.
493
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:52,259
If you enjoyed the podcast, make sure to leave
a 5 star review down below and share it with a
494
00:32:52,259 --> 00:32:52,500
friend.
495
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:53,860
Could have some value in the show.
496
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:57,065
And, thank you very much David, for taking the
time to join the podcast.
497
00:32:57,065 --> 00:32:57,964
It was a pleasure.
498
00:32:58,585 --> 00:33:00,585
I think you're saving some good luck to you.
499
00:33:00,585 --> 00:33:01,944
You're gonna do big things.
500
00:33:01,944 --> 00:33:03,724
I got a lot of confidence in my
501
00:33:03,817 --> 00:33:04,877
I appreciate it.
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,580
All the Borrow P Embit podcast with Seamus
Madan.
2
00:00:07,884 --> 00:00:09,905
Welcome everyone
3
00:00:15,244 --> 00:00:17,859
back to another app episode of the Embid
podcast.
4
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,453
I'm your host, Shamus Madan.
5
00:00:19,519 --> 00:00:24,079
And today, we have a very special guest, the 1
and only David Abney, who is the former
6
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,019
chairman and CEO of UPS.
7
00:00:26,355 --> 00:00:28,375
David's story is anything but traditional.
8
00:00:28,434 --> 00:00:33,335
At the age of nineteen years old, he began his
career as a part time package loader at UPS.
9
00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:38,859
Little did he know doing so with start off his
trajectory to CEO and leading 1 of the largest
10
00:00:38,859 --> 00:00:40,924
package delivery companies in the world?
11
00:00:40,924 --> 00:00:43,725
So first off, thank you David for taking the
time to join the show.
12
00:00:43,725 --> 00:00:45,184
It's a pleasure to have you on.
13
00:00:45,325 --> 00:00:49,909
Well, thank you, Seamus, and I have a feeling
there's gonna be a time down the road people
14
00:00:49,909 --> 00:00:52,443
gonna be saying them one and only, Shamus.
15
00:00:52,469 --> 00:00:54,570
So I'm looking forward to seeing that.
16
00:00:54,710 --> 00:00:55,590
Thank you very much.
17
00:00:55,590 --> 00:00:56,469
I appreciate that.
18
00:00:56,469 --> 00:01:01,145
But, yeah, let's start off with you know, your
journey and how you first came across UPS.
19
00:01:01,145 --> 00:01:03,645
And why'd you initially decide to join the
company?
20
00:01:04,424 --> 00:01:06,130
Well, Thanks for asking.
21
00:01:06,189 --> 00:01:07,710
I was eighteen years old.
22
00:01:07,710 --> 00:01:09,230
I was a freshman in college.
23
00:01:09,230 --> 00:01:15,225
I need to work to go through college, and I had
a friend that referred UPS to me.
24
00:01:15,685 --> 00:01:18,105
At that time, you gotta remember this was 1974.
25
00:01:19,924 --> 00:01:22,564
I don't know that I'd ever seen a UPS truck.
26
00:01:22,564 --> 00:01:24,505
I'm sure I'd seen him on the street.
27
00:01:24,549 --> 00:01:27,270
I don't remember any of them ever coming to our
house.
28
00:01:27,270 --> 00:01:30,490
And, so I didn't know a lot about it, but I did
the interview.
29
00:01:30,790 --> 00:01:33,905
And I thought it'd be a great college job.
30
00:01:33,905 --> 00:01:36,704
I didn't think any further than that.
31
00:01:36,704 --> 00:01:42,430
The pay was higher than what grocery stores and
retail stores were the the work was gonna be a
32
00:01:42,430 --> 00:01:44,450
lot harder to, but I didn't know that.
33
00:01:44,670 --> 00:01:47,390
So that's really the way that I got to start
it.
34
00:01:47,390 --> 00:01:50,415
I tell my wife we've been married forty years.
35
00:01:50,415 --> 00:01:56,734
We were dating at the time that I took the job
at UPS to have beer and pizza money for with
36
00:01:56,734 --> 00:01:57,234
her.
37
00:01:57,450 --> 00:01:57,689
Yeah.
38
00:01:57,689 --> 00:01:57,930
Yeah.
39
00:01:57,930 --> 00:02:03,290
I noticed you ended up saying there's obviously
for a significant period of time for decades in
40
00:02:03,290 --> 00:02:07,355
fact, but you told the story at a conference
before how you wanted to be a history
41
00:02:07,355 --> 00:02:07,855
professor.
42
00:02:08,155 --> 00:02:12,235
But after about a year into the job, your
manager changed your mind and convinced you to
43
00:02:12,235 --> 00:02:13,134
stay at the company.
44
00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:18,590
What did he say that compelled you to shift
your career trajectory and stay at UPS?
45
00:02:19,689 --> 00:02:23,574
That is a interest story, and, I give him full
credit.
46
00:02:24,114 --> 00:02:28,854
So I was nineteen years old, and I did have an
affinity and still do for history.
47
00:02:28,914 --> 00:02:33,709
In fact, I'm a board of curator or a board of
directors, you'd call it for the Georgia
48
00:02:33,709 --> 00:02:37,650
Historical Society, so I'm still very involved
in history.
49
00:02:37,870 --> 00:02:46,175
But the 19, I had this manager of a local
Mississippi of depot that took some time 1
50
00:02:46,175 --> 00:02:49,909
night and put his arm sleep, put his arm on my
shoulder.
51
00:02:49,909 --> 00:02:55,530
It's a very casual conversation and started
telling me about this great company about UPS.
52
00:02:56,385 --> 00:02:58,064
They just didn't know how.
53
00:02:58,064 --> 00:03:01,764
Found it and what it believed and where it was
going.
54
00:03:02,224 --> 00:03:07,150
And then Shamus, he started telling me what a
great person that I was.
55
00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:12,365
I'd only been working there maybe 8 months, and
he started giving me all these positive
56
00:03:12,585 --> 00:03:20,685
attributes and nobody other than my parents had
ever talked to me about that kind of stuff.
57
00:03:20,849 --> 00:03:21,810
And they have to.
58
00:03:21,810 --> 00:03:22,050
Right?
59
00:03:22,050 --> 00:03:23,010
They're you're paying.
60
00:03:23,010 --> 00:03:30,465
But, yeah, but by the time he got through that
night, the terminology for years is I became
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00:03:30,685 --> 00:03:33,425
brown blooded because of UPS Brown.
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00:03:34,125 --> 00:03:40,189
From that day forward at nineteen years old, I
knew I wanted to spend my career at UPS.
63
00:03:40,409 --> 00:03:44,810
And how did that journey eventually lead up to
becoming the CEO of the company?
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00:03:44,810 --> 00:03:48,634
And through that journey, what would be some
advice you'd have For maybe the next generation
65
00:03:48,634 --> 00:03:52,074
who are looking forward to advancing their
careers, maybe they're starting off at a
66
00:03:52,074 --> 00:03:53,995
similar place where you were back in the day.
67
00:03:53,995 --> 00:03:55,694
What would be your advice to those people?
68
00:03:56,020 --> 00:03:56,419
Okay.
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00:03:56,419 --> 00:04:01,860
I well, I did start as a part time motor, which
meant I was I was at the most beginning job.
70
00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:03,719
All jobs at UPS are important.
71
00:04:03,724 --> 00:04:06,784
I was certainly at the lower end of that scale.
72
00:04:07,325 --> 00:04:11,905
I sure didn't have a grand scheme to become the
CEO.
73
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,060
In my neighborhood in Mississippi, there were
no CEOs.
74
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,080
I can tell you that.
75
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,379
I'm not even sure what I've known what a CEO
was.
76
00:04:20,439 --> 00:04:25,745
And, I did know that that this was a national
company at the time.
77
00:04:25,745 --> 00:04:29,925
Now it courses an international company, but
the time was a national company.
78
00:04:30,650 --> 00:04:36,009
Had a great reputation, and they strongly
believed in promotion from with that.
79
00:04:36,009 --> 00:04:39,470
So that is how people really grew in this
company.
80
00:04:40,345 --> 00:04:48,250
So I committed to myself that I was gonna go as
far as I could possibly go, and I was gonna do
81
00:04:48,730 --> 00:04:51,870
everything possible to get there.
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00:04:52,009 --> 00:04:56,694
And, obviously, within the rules, regulation,
stuff like that, And I'll just give you a
83
00:04:56,694 --> 00:05:01,415
couple examples because, you know, they're
gonna be different examples for your viewers or
84
00:05:01,415 --> 00:05:06,569
your listeners, but it's still So at eighteen,
nineteen years old, if I would find out, we
85
00:05:06,569 --> 00:05:13,704
were gonna have a big visitor coming into our
building from from another office I would come
86
00:05:13,704 --> 00:05:21,305
in on my own and and scrub the floors clean and
wax them, and I would have that old building
87
00:05:21,305 --> 00:05:26,460
that we had look like it was brand new, at
least from before, anyway.
88
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,379
And no one told me to do it, no one asked me to
do it.
89
00:05:30,725 --> 00:05:36,425
Is just the kinds of things that I did, and I
wasn't even doing it to be recognized.
90
00:05:37,500 --> 00:05:40,139
But obviously people recognized it.
91
00:05:40,139 --> 00:05:42,319
And and I'll give you another example.
92
00:05:42,379 --> 00:05:43,900
So I graduate from college.
93
00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:44,639
I'm 21.
94
00:05:45,615 --> 00:05:50,814
And at that time at UPS before you went to
management, and it's still a path a lot of
95
00:05:50,814 --> 00:05:54,834
people take you would drive as a package driver
first.
96
00:05:55,569 --> 00:06:05,395
So we moved everything we had at 74 Monte Carlo
and and moved 5 hours down to the miss Sydney
97
00:06:05,395 --> 00:06:07,654
Gulf Coast, and I became a driver.
98
00:06:08,435 --> 00:06:14,295
And I was one of 8 drivers, the least senior
driver, of course, because I was brand new.
99
00:06:14,779 --> 00:06:21,100
And and right after that, maybe 3 months later,
UPS moved the supervisor out of that office and
100
00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:27,995
decided to have a driver that would be a lead
driver that would dispatch the center and would
101
00:06:27,995 --> 00:06:30,335
take care of things as they drove.
102
00:06:31,209 --> 00:06:36,569
Now to this day, I don't know if the seven
people had more seniority than me turned it
103
00:06:36,569 --> 00:06:38,509
down, so I was the last choice.
104
00:06:39,664 --> 00:06:42,564
It was the first choice because of what they
recognized.
105
00:06:42,865 --> 00:06:44,004
I have no idea.
106
00:06:44,544 --> 00:06:49,899
They asked me to be the lead driver And so here
I am dispatching drivers that have been there
107
00:06:49,899 --> 00:06:52,720
for years, and I barely had seniority.
108
00:06:53,259 --> 00:06:59,475
The thing that makes the story a little unique
is that Sundays, we would only have enough work
109
00:06:59,475 --> 00:07:00,774
for 7 drivers.
110
00:07:01,555 --> 00:07:10,060
I would lay myself off and my wife thought she
had married maybe the least smart person.
111
00:07:10,060 --> 00:07:12,480
I'm putting this in my storage that existed.
112
00:07:13,154 --> 00:07:18,435
Because we were living paycheck to paycheck at
the time, and I'll never forget the question of
113
00:07:18,435 --> 00:07:20,855
who lays themselves off.
114
00:07:21,850 --> 00:07:23,850
But we didn't have enough work to do.
115
00:07:23,850 --> 00:07:24,910
I did that.
116
00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:32,415
And in a very short time, I was promoted into
management, and I know that there were people
117
00:07:32,415 --> 00:07:34,194
at UPS who said, hey.
118
00:07:34,254 --> 00:07:39,240
If this guy's willing to lay He's willing to do
a lot of things.
119
00:07:39,699 --> 00:07:46,615
And then just to give your listeners an idea,
you know, we moved 8, 10 different times I
120
00:07:46,615 --> 00:07:48,314
worked nights, 10 years.
121
00:07:48,855 --> 00:07:55,975
I mean, it's not like I went from being a part
time loader to a driver, to a CEO, and a very
122
00:07:55,975 --> 00:07:56,990
quick period of time.
123
00:07:56,990 --> 00:08:05,949
It was about a 35, 40 year journey, but it was
one step at a time, and and I had to be willing
124
00:08:05,949 --> 00:08:08,675
to step to the play at each of those times.
125
00:08:09,295 --> 00:08:18,250
But I was surrounded with such a network of
good UPS employees and managers that coached
126
00:08:18,389 --> 00:08:18,980
and helped me.
127
00:08:18,980 --> 00:08:23,245
And every time UPS would take me out of comfort
zone.
128
00:08:23,245 --> 00:08:26,464
I would have people that would help me in the
next job.
129
00:08:26,524 --> 00:08:27,964
And this would be the last store.
130
00:08:27,964 --> 00:08:32,799
I'll tell about that and let you go home, but
so I spent my first three moves were in
131
00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,720
Mississippi that I did the big move.
132
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,379
I thought to Nashville, Tennessee, Las
Mississippi.
133
00:08:38,855 --> 00:08:41,115
Then we got transferred to New Jersey.
134
00:08:41,495 --> 00:08:48,209
And, Seamus, when you go up in Mississippi and
a little bit of Tennessee, transferring meat in
135
00:08:48,209 --> 00:08:48,870
New Jersey.
136
00:08:48,929 --> 00:08:51,329
It was like transferring meat to a foreign
country.
137
00:08:51,329 --> 00:08:56,129
You know, I say in New Jersey is far, and some
people would say Mississippi is far.
138
00:08:56,129 --> 00:08:56,745
It does.
139
00:08:56,985 --> 00:08:58,284
Depends on your perspective.
140
00:08:59,304 --> 00:09:05,740
I'm just telling you, I was so far out of my
comfort zone and thank god there was just a lot
141
00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:10,620
of good GPS just to help me along the way, and
I would have never become CEO if I couldn't
142
00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:12,399
have made that kind of step.
143
00:09:12,955 --> 00:09:17,855
But during the process, I'm going what in the
world if I got myself into.
144
00:09:18,075 --> 00:09:18,575
Yeah.
145
00:09:18,875 --> 00:09:19,195
Yeah.
146
00:09:19,195 --> 00:09:23,110
I mean, you made a couple of key great points
and the key takeaway from that.
147
00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:27,350
You always have to put in the work and take
that extra hour, that extra day, or that extra
148
00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:30,554
step like you did with mopping the floors when
you had the big guest com.
149
00:09:30,695 --> 00:09:33,735
All those can end up compounding up to really
make a big difference.
150
00:09:33,735 --> 00:09:37,254
But the next thing is, you know, I've had the
opportunity to speak with a few different
151
00:09:37,254 --> 00:09:41,879
startups in the logistics space, including one,
although very early, is doing something pretty
152
00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:42,379
interesting.
153
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,379
That's building underground tunnels in cities
to help decrease traffic.
154
00:09:46,654 --> 00:09:51,455
And move packages from one end of New York City
to the other in just a matter of a couple of
155
00:09:51,455 --> 00:09:51,855
minutes.
156
00:09:51,855 --> 00:09:57,450
I know UPS are combined with the use of drones
by UPS was, I believe, the first to receive the
157
00:09:57,450 --> 00:10:03,504
FAA part 135 certification standard by which
regulators approve return delivery as we see
158
00:10:03,504 --> 00:10:07,125
all these new technologies with drones and
underground packagiliary.
159
00:10:07,585 --> 00:10:09,924
What do you see for the future of logistics?
160
00:10:10,769 --> 00:10:16,389
I can tell you that I think we're earning the
most exciting time ever of, logistics.
161
00:10:17,009 --> 00:10:22,464
Now I'm saying that as I've retired, right,
when I look at potential, and I look at where a
162
00:10:22,464 --> 00:10:25,044
lot of these technologies will lead us.
163
00:10:25,504 --> 00:10:31,639
I believe that whether it's 10 years or 15
years, that we're gonna see more change than
164
00:10:31,639 --> 00:10:33,720
we've seen in the last 100 years.
165
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,580
It's just that exciting.
166
00:10:36,495 --> 00:10:39,455
A lot of that will certainly be driven by AI.
167
00:10:39,455 --> 00:10:39,774
Right?
168
00:10:39,774 --> 00:10:48,320
And it just gives possibilities and can play
scenarios that you just couldn't do prior.
169
00:10:48,860 --> 00:10:53,980
And now you have to take all that data, and you
have to be able to apply it to real world
170
00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:57,684
situations but but that's coming and is coming
quickly.
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And, you know, drones and other forms of of
automated delivery are going to just make a big
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difference, and they're probably gonna come a
lot quicker than you think.
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Doesn't mean it's gonna replace the driver and,
package car anytime soon, but it's going to to
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supplement.
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And and you're gonna see more automation and
buildings, and it's just gonna be much more
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efficient.
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And and I don't know that anybody that can see
far enough out that could tell you in 15 years
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what what we're gonna be doing because it's
gonna change that quick.
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And and there's gonna be reluctance to change
But this is not a status quo world that we live
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in.
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You can't stay the Shamus.
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And if you do, nobody's just gonna know who you
are a company a few years because you would be
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passed up.
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So I just think for people, your age, The the
exciting opportunities that are gonna be out
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there are just gonna be pretty incredible.
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Absolutely.
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And we saw that a little bit with Black Buster
and Netflix when Netflix started taking the
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world by storm.
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Blackbuster CEO actually laughed the co
founders out of their office saying the
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internet just would never work.
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And they ended up being the ones to go out of
business.
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So I agree with you on that.
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You gotta stay up with the pace of innovation.
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Or you will be left behind.
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I think it's very important especially when you
have listeners that may start their own
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businesses Madan.
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And you can look at that.
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You can say, man, did Blockbuster miss that?
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And and you could say that Kodak did the same
thing with them and and stuff like that.
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The problem that business is based is when you
are in a existing situation and you are being
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extremely successful.
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And you are the market leader, and you're
making all kinds of money.
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Then your purpose, without you even realizing
it, it's just trying to make sure that the cash
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cow or the golden dust just keeps delivering.
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Right?
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And so sometimes you can get blind to the fact
that things are gonna change right in front of
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your eyes, and it's not because you're not
smart and you can't figure things out is
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because you can get so focused on your being
the market leader and you wanna continue that
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that then you just lose it and you lose it
quickly.
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So I'm not defending anybody, but I can sure
see how it happens.
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Go ahead.
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I didn't mean to interrupt you.
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Yeah.
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No.
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Those are some some great points.
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And even if Blockbuster ended up did acquire
Netflix during that meeting, we still would
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have never known where it could happen.
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Netflix might never have ended up going on to
be the leader that it was today, mainly because
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of the cultures that were in those 2 different
firms clashing together, the Black Boxer could
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have, kept down the culture of innovation for
Netflix, which could have really changed the
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dynamics of at play.
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One of the interesting facts I came across is
that UPS trucks rarely take left turns and
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actually prefer taking right hand turns.
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And the numbers show it's around 90% of
estimated truck make right hand turns over left
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hand turns.
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Why is this a genius strategy in terms of in
efficiency and why does UPS do it?
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I get asked about this all the time.
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So you're very observant, and so are a lot of
other people And and I'll tell you is it's
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pretty simple when you do all the modeling.
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And right hand turns versus left hand turns
visualize being in your car today.
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You're at a red light.
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If you're making a right hand turn, then you
can turn in most states, bearing a red light,
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and, and you don't have oncoming cars that are
facing you coming At the same time, you're
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doing those turns.
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When you're doing left hand turns, first place,
you can't turn left on red, socket.
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When he does turn green, you've gotta let every
car come by first.
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So from a safety standpoint, there's a lot more
intersection acts that's by turning left than
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there ever are by turning right.
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And and when you think about it, it's pretty
obvious as as to why.
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And then second, from an efficiency standpoint,
you're talking seconds, if not 30 seconds or
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more, at each turn, which you can think, or
somebody's being a little anal if they're
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spending that much time on just making a turn,
But when you take if an average driver would
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have 200 stops a day, we'll just say they They
turn 200, 250 times a day.
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And if there's a 125,000 or so drivers, times,
you know, the number of days in a year, you can
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get to be between 510,000,000,000 turns.
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If you're saving a few seconds per turn and if
you're saving just a few accidents per 100000
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hours, You are just making one tremendous gain
there.
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So so there's an a little bit of art there's a
whole lot of science.
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And since we cover all areas, you can design
the network to go right to left, or you can
250
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design the network to go left to right.
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You'd be out of your mind to do it left to
right, but you could.
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And so that's what's driven then.
253
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Gotcha.
254
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Yeah.
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It's super fascinating.
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And one of the key, I think, themes that have
come across when I've interviewed a lot of
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these CEOs is the topic of partnerships,
especially maybe earlier earlier in the
258
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company, but you've had partnerships with big
companies such as Apple, Amazon, and Macy's.
259
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How have those partnerships played a valuable
role for the development of the business?
260
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You know, partnerships to any business are very
important.
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Then the fact that I have retired from UPS for
over 2 years or so, obviously, I wouldn't be
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talking about existing UPS partnerships, but I
can talk about keys to making partnerships so
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successful.
264
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And the first thing is that You've gotta have 2
companies that that have mutual ambitions.
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In other words, they can define success in a
very similar manner because if success is
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defined by one partner quite differently than
the other, it's just not gonna ever work.
267
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You've gotta have a vision that allows you to
do that.
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2nd is is there's gotta be reasons that
everyone wants to do it.
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Some of our best partnerships at UPS or where
we provided logistics services to us but there
270
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are customers provided goods and services back
to the so now you're not doing it just in one
271
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direction, but you're doing it in 2.
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Everybody's just a little bit more motivated
when you do that.
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Then you have to agree on the metrics and you
have to make sure that the metrics that you
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carry on are reasonable.
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And then you have to make sure that the benefit
is very similar for each company.
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If you try to get too greedy and you try to
make the benefit much better for you than for
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your partner, then it's just not gonna last.
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You may think you're a better negotiator, and
maybe you are in short term, but you you just
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run the partnership.
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And so those are some of the things that are
secret, but let me tell you what really was an
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important partnership with UPS because
everybody thinks about the big customers, and
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we do have the big customers.
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But we just have hundreds of thousands of small
and midsized companies, companies that that you
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may know if they were, you know, in whatever
town you grew up in or something, a little
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small mom and pop shops, but nobody else is
gonna know.
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With our system and our technology, being able
to partner with these hundreds of thousands of
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small companies, is where UPS adds its full
value.
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And it allows these little companies to operate
as if they're much big.
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Like, they have worldwide networks.
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And and there again, you just gotta make sure
that the value proposition is good on both
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sides.
292
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Absolutely.
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And, you know, one of the things that can come
with growing a company, especially as you
294
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scale, is acquisitions.
295
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So during your time at UPS, you had the
opportunity to oversee multiple acquisitions.
296
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And during the acquisitions, one of the things
that can happen is you have 2 different company
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cultures under one roof.
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How did you manage the various combinations of
cultures and missions to make them synonymous
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across thousands of employees?
300
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You know, you have to do it very carefully, and
everyone knows that blending cultures is very
301
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difficult.
302
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And everyone's got a theory, but until you
actually do it, it's just hard to realize how
303
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difficult it can be.
304
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Fortunately, over the last 20, 25 years of my
life at UPS.
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I was involved in all the major acquisitions,
but I actually got to run 2 of them.
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And that was where we would acquire a smaller
company, and the owner of the company would
307
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stay for a certain amount of time.
308
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And then they would go on to other things, and
I got to run those companies.
309
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And I got to learn firsthand the importance
culture.
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00:20:42,984 --> 00:20:49,164
I got to learn firsthand that that the UPS way
is not always the right way in all situations.
311
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And, there's a few things that you can do to
increase your success.
312
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First, is you've gotta do your due diligence
before you ever make the acquisition.
313
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There are just some companies that just can't
go together.
314
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Cultures are just too completely different.
315
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:12,190
And and you've gotta recognize that.
316
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And when you realize that's not gonna happen,
you gotta have the courage to walk away.
317
00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:22,434
You know, you can fall in love with deals But
if you see, it's just too much of a difference.
318
00:21:22,434 --> 00:21:23,315
It's not gonna work.
319
00:21:23,315 --> 00:21:24,534
You gotta walk away.
320
00:21:24,755 --> 00:21:26,615
You're walking away from both sides.
321
00:21:26,809 --> 00:21:29,869
When you do it, but you gotta be willing to do
that.
322
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The other thing is you really have to look at
the mission of the company And then you compare
323
00:21:38,554 --> 00:21:39,515
it to you too.
324
00:21:39,515 --> 00:21:46,769
In my case, UPS's mission and and where are
their commonalities and where can you continue?
325
00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:50,289
And then you have to look at where are things
different?
326
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And can they continue to be and do they provide
additional value?
327
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And if they do, you've gotta know when not to
change things.
328
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You know?
329
00:22:01,549 --> 00:22:03,410
It's so easy to have a blueprint.
330
00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:07,549
You say within 5 years, I'm gonna change
everything.
331
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But if you do that, Why didn't you just build a
business from the ground up instead of
332
00:22:14,294 --> 00:22:15,255
acquiring a company?
333
00:22:15,255 --> 00:22:20,029
What you're trying to do is acquire the very
best of these companies.
334
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And then you maintain that, and then you fit
that within the supply chain of of the pair in,
335
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UPS in my case.
336
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And so that's the key.
337
00:22:31,785 --> 00:22:38,820
And one of the things you have to do is quickly
identify in these companies, the people that
338
00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:45,964
are just so important because I can tell you
that when you do an acquisition, If you divide
339
00:22:45,964 --> 00:22:52,845
employees in 3 categories, a big load generic
here, but if you do, those who are absolute to
340
00:22:52,845 --> 00:23:00,009
the best of the best, Those who do a good
average job, and then those who are on the
341
00:23:00,009 --> 00:23:07,575
lower end of that When you do an acquisition,
the people that are most at risk are the people
342
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that cost you to buy the acquisition in the
first place.
343
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Because they're just so talented.
344
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They're so important.
345
00:23:14,349 --> 00:23:18,595
But a lot of other people know they're
important too, and they offer them all kinds of
346
00:23:18,674 --> 00:23:22,694
special things, and they tell them you're gonna
get lost in a large company.
347
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And so you really have to focus on those
people.
348
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And the people that you're least likely to lose
are the ones that aren't doing a very good job
349
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because they see the stability of a big
company.
350
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And they hope they can continue to just kind of
do just enough to get by.
351
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And if you've gotta lose people, those are the
ones you'd rather lose.
352
00:23:45,035 --> 00:23:48,320
Hopefully, you can convert them and get them to
be big believers.
353
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But that top of the top, we call them top
notches.
354
00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:55,394
You can call them whatever you want to.
355
00:23:56,015 --> 00:24:00,515
Those are the people you have to keep if you're
gonna have a successful acquisition.
356
00:24:01,859 --> 00:24:02,259
Gotcha.
357
00:24:02,259 --> 00:24:03,460
That makes a lot of sense.
358
00:24:03,460 --> 00:24:05,460
And, you know, it's something we saw a little
bit.
359
00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:08,660
We talked about it before with Elon Musk when
he acquired Twitter.
360
00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:13,234
He one of the mistakes he ended up making was
actually firing a lot of the top executives and
361
00:24:13,234 --> 00:24:15,795
yet to struggle to get some of them back.
362
00:24:15,795 --> 00:24:18,934
But as we wrap it up here, what would be some
of your takeaways?
363
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,099
For the next generation looking to advance
their career.
364
00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:24,920
Oh, god.
365
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,634
I'd love to talk about this, and I can warn
your listeners in advance.
366
00:24:29,934 --> 00:24:36,174
There are some things they're gonna like that
I'm about to say, and there are some things
367
00:24:36,174 --> 00:24:42,190
that many of them will not So the great thing
about it is if they can choose to turn us off
368
00:24:42,190 --> 00:24:49,204
or they can keep us on, but but I really feel
There's some key things that I need to say.
369
00:24:49,345 --> 00:24:52,644
1st, I I have real hope for this next
generation.
370
00:24:52,865 --> 00:24:57,490
You know, I am not one of these older guys it
it turns all lower.
371
00:24:57,490 --> 00:24:58,769
The world has gone down.
372
00:24:58,769 --> 00:25:03,269
People don't care the way we cared, and that
the world's in big trouble.
373
00:25:03,785 --> 00:25:05,484
I don't see that at all.
374
00:25:05,545 --> 00:25:13,559
I see this generation has a a big excitement
level for making the world better that they
375
00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:14,279
live in.
376
00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:17,640
They think things haven't been done as well in
certain areas.
377
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,460
They're right.
378
00:25:18,855 --> 00:25:24,154
And I think this generation wants to be the
generation that's going to to change that.
379
00:25:24,855 --> 00:25:31,929
They also this generation has more access to
knowledge and information than any past
380
00:25:31,929 --> 00:25:32,429
generations.
381
00:25:32,890 --> 00:25:37,210
When I was your age, if I wanted to find out
something about different part of the world, I
382
00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:38,414
went to cyclopedia.
383
00:25:39,515 --> 00:25:42,974
You probably don't even know what they are,
maybe you'd send a garlic.
384
00:25:43,355 --> 00:25:46,315
And I would open it up, and and that's what I'd
read.
385
00:25:46,315 --> 00:25:52,630
Unfortunately, compete, you'd be ten years old
or more, but but that was how I learned.
386
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:57,894
Now this generation can learn things the minute
it happens.
387
00:25:57,894 --> 00:26:00,634
Now they also learned a lot of things that
didn't happen.
388
00:26:00,694 --> 00:26:03,194
They get reported as this happened.
389
00:26:03,609 --> 00:26:09,549
So there's a lot more misinformation out there
than there was when I was your age, but there's
390
00:26:09,609 --> 00:26:12,515
so much more information.
391
00:26:13,535 --> 00:26:21,669
And as long as people are continuous
improvement, and and they are intellectually
392
00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:29,785
curious to where when they see there's things
they don't know that they find out about those
393
00:26:29,785 --> 00:26:33,725
things, then those are the people that are
gonna have more success.
394
00:26:33,945 --> 00:26:37,299
Others are gonna try to bluff their way through
like, they know stuff.
395
00:26:37,299 --> 00:26:38,200
They don't know.
396
00:26:38,420 --> 00:26:42,660
The only person they wind up fooling at the end
of the days themselves, because people that
397
00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:49,054
really do know they they detect impostors
quickly so you don't fool anyone.
398
00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:52,815
And but here's what I really want your
listeners to hear.
399
00:26:52,990 --> 00:26:55,470
And this is where some of them may not like it.
400
00:26:55,470 --> 00:27:02,894
But the first truth in life is opportunities
are earned.
401
00:27:03,275 --> 00:27:04,974
They are not given.
402
00:27:05,515 --> 00:27:12,419
There are too many people in this world that
can be 20 years later saying I never got my
403
00:27:12,419 --> 00:27:17,994
opportunity, and that's because they were
waiting for somebody to hand it to Shamus, it
404
00:27:17,994 --> 00:27:20,095
just doesn't happen that way.
405
00:27:20,154 --> 00:27:22,394
And then you're a good example of that.
406
00:27:22,394 --> 00:27:26,095
I met you obviously in a very big event.
407
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:30,890
It's a Columbia Business School at the Doming
Company, and you were helping out there.
408
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:35,269
If you were in a room, I don't know if you were
waiting on us or if you were just there anyway,
409
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:36,250
it doesn't matter.
410
00:27:36,455 --> 00:27:37,494
But you were in a room.
411
00:27:37,494 --> 00:27:38,695
You were there to help us.
412
00:27:38,695 --> 00:27:39,914
You made some differences.
413
00:27:40,134 --> 00:27:41,115
You took initiative.
414
00:27:42,134 --> 00:27:47,130
And then after that fight, you asked me to be
part of that podcast.
415
00:27:47,829 --> 00:27:49,029
I just have to tell you.
416
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:52,410
I get too many requests for me to be able to do
them.
417
00:27:52,815 --> 00:27:54,194
And do all opportunities.
418
00:27:55,134 --> 00:28:00,494
If you hadn't made an impression on me on what
you were doing, there's just no way I would
419
00:28:00,494 --> 00:28:02,174
have taken the time to do this.
420
00:28:02,174 --> 00:28:06,740
So There's a small way you Madan think, but you
earned that opportunity.
421
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:12,545
By the time this podcast is over, you may
regret it, but you you earned it anyway at
422
00:28:12,705 --> 00:28:15,525
That's why I'm here, but you cannot wait.
423
00:28:15,664 --> 00:28:16,884
It can't be given.
424
00:28:17,184 --> 00:28:18,404
There's no entitlement.
425
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:25,100
And and people that think they're entitled for
something, they're just gonna be surely
426
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:25,900
disappointed.
427
00:28:26,884 --> 00:28:30,105
It's a very competitive world that we live in.
428
00:28:30,484 --> 00:28:38,930
And if you don't differentiate yourself, If you
don't stand out, you're never gonna get the
429
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:45,315
opportunities that that you feel like you
deserve And so you've got to go above and
430
00:28:45,315 --> 00:28:49,575
beyond, and you have to figure out what above
and beyond means.
431
00:28:49,930 --> 00:28:56,430
But if it's not more than what other people are
doing, it is not going to work.
432
00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:59,945
You've got to continuously get better.
433
00:28:59,945 --> 00:29:07,320
There's nobody that's a finished product, Madan
you have to realize that But then there's some
434
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,140
personal social skills you gotta know too.
435
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:12,059
1 is you gotta be humble.
436
00:29:12,654 --> 00:29:18,335
And I know that there's some movie
generalizations and stuff about CEOs, how they
437
00:29:18,335 --> 00:29:19,154
can be.
438
00:29:19,535 --> 00:29:25,559
In some cases, they are gonna high on
themselves or or stuff like that.
439
00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:31,244
Bob Toni, in the real world, if you're gonna be
successful leading people, You've gotta be
440
00:29:31,244 --> 00:29:31,744
humble.
441
00:29:31,884 --> 00:29:34,785
You've got to have a servant attitude.
442
00:29:35,005 --> 00:29:40,920
You've gotta show people you care about the You
show people you care about them.
443
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:45,880
They will show you they care about you, and
they care about the company.
444
00:29:46,764 --> 00:29:53,024
That means that when things go right, if you're
a leader, you always give your people credit.
445
00:29:54,169 --> 00:29:59,710
And if all you do is bang on your own chest,
everybody's gonna realize what you're doing.
446
00:29:59,769 --> 00:30:05,654
If you give people the credit they deserve, 1,
they will follow you anywhere.
447
00:30:06,115 --> 00:30:09,554
And 2, by the way, the people above you,
they're gonna know what you're doing.
448
00:30:09,554 --> 00:30:13,700
You don't have to tell them, you know, You just
tell them how great your people are and what
449
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:14,440
you've done.
450
00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:19,640
On the other hand, and this is very difficult
for some people.
451
00:30:20,154 --> 00:30:29,019
When things go bad and they do in every job,
they do when things go bad, a true leader takes
452
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,299
responsibility for things going bad.
453
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:34,059
Doesn't make excuses.
454
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,019
Doesn't point someone out.
455
00:30:37,375 --> 00:30:43,455
Doesn't try to have a scapegoat, doesn't fire
somebody that's innocent so that they can,
456
00:30:44,735 --> 00:30:45,235
continue.
457
00:30:46,015 --> 00:30:48,859
But They take the play.
458
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,600
They learn from it.
459
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,859
I learn much more from my mistakes than I ever
learned from my successes.
460
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,805
There's no doubt about that.
461
00:30:58,105 --> 00:30:59,404
You learn from it.
462
00:30:59,545 --> 00:31:01,965
You try not to make the same mistake again.
463
00:31:02,744 --> 00:31:04,125
You set high goals.
464
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,519
This thing about setting low goals and beating
them.
465
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:09,059
Anybody can do that.
466
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:14,595
Setting high goals and beating them very few
people can do that.
467
00:31:14,974 --> 00:31:18,835
And you've got to be persistent and determined.
468
00:31:19,535 --> 00:31:23,500
You cannot let things get in your way.
469
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:30,460
And what I mean by that is we're all gonna have
mitigating circumstances that come up.
470
00:31:31,524 --> 00:31:39,370
That can be an excuse not to succeed, or we can
take ownership of the problem.
471
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:46,365
Figure out how we get around it or how we
mitigate it to some degree, but It's a big
472
00:31:46,365 --> 00:31:52,204
difference between being an owner of your
situation and being a victim of your
473
00:31:52,204 --> 00:31:52,704
circumstance.
474
00:31:53,400 --> 00:32:00,519
And and the true leader is gonna be the one
that is going to take charge and is going to
475
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:01,660
make things happen.
476
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,335
So I know I've said a lot.
477
00:32:03,335 --> 00:32:04,375
You may have some questions.
478
00:32:04,375 --> 00:32:10,695
You may have some things you wanna add to that,
but I just want you to know that there's a lot
479
00:32:10,695 --> 00:32:13,039
of your listing that are gonna do great things.
480
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,279
There's not a doubt in my mind.
481
00:32:16,059 --> 00:32:20,000
They've got and you said it very early at our
broadcast.
482
00:32:21,465 --> 00:32:24,445
They've got to be willing to do the hard work.
483
00:32:25,065 --> 00:32:28,684
If they just think it's gonna come easy, it's
not.
484
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,000
Yeah.
485
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,680
That's a great thing to leave off at.
486
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,859
I think, you know, you always have to be
actionable.
487
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,484
I think the other thing that can always play
well with success is as you mentioned a little
488
00:32:38,484 --> 00:32:43,045
bit earlier, the people skills and just being
able to network and talk with other people and
489
00:32:43,045 --> 00:32:44,404
provide value in that network.
490
00:32:44,404 --> 00:32:46,244
But, yeah, you left it off at a great point.
491
00:32:46,244 --> 00:32:47,059
Alright, everyone.
492
00:32:47,059 --> 00:32:48,420
Wraps it up for today's episode.
493
00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:52,259
If you enjoyed the podcast, make sure to leave
a 5 star review down below and share it with a
494
00:32:52,259 --> 00:32:52,500
friend.
495
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:53,860
Could have some value in the show.
496
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:57,065
And, thank you very much David, for taking the
time to join the podcast.
497
00:32:57,065 --> 00:32:57,964
It was a pleasure.
498
00:32:58,585 --> 00:33:00,585
I think you're saving some good luck to you.
499
00:33:00,585 --> 00:33:01,944
You're gonna do big things.
500
00:33:01,944 --> 00:33:03,724
I got a lot of confidence in my
501
00:33:03,817 --> 00:33:04,877
I appreciate it.
