When Presence Becomes Prevention: School Safety, Trauma, and Educator Voice with Abbey Clements

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Abbey Clements: Keep doing what you're
doing, notice what you notice, keep
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bringing forward, your concerns, even
when you feel like they're left unheard.
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Don't let it go.
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Keep bringing it up.
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Keep bringing it up, because
you really could save a life.
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Welcome to the Classroom Narratives
Healing and Education Podcast, the
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space where education meets resilience.
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I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in each episode,
we dive deep into the personal stories
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of educators, students, leaders, and
frontline advocates who are navigating
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the complexities within modern education.
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Whether you're just starting your teaching
journey or are a seasoned professional
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looking for inspiration, we'll explore
how to foster meaningful change, prevent
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burnout, and build trauma-informed
communities within our schools.
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Now, let's take a seat at the front
of the classroom as we get started.
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Hello, and thank you for tuning
in to today's episode of the
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Classroom Narratives Podcast.
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As we begin this segment, I would
like to establish a disclaimer
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that our conversation today
will focus on gun violence in
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schools and throughout society.
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Please take care of
yourself while listening.
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Now let's introduce our guest
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Audio Only - All Participants: Today on
The Classroom Narratives, I want to begin
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with a few words from the anthology,
"If I Don't Make It, I Love You", edited
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by Loren Kleinman and Amye Archer, with
contributions made by members of the
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Sandy Hook community as well as other
institutions impacted by gun violence.
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Abbey Clements, a second grade teacher
at Sandy Hook Elementary School, writes
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about the moment that changed everything.
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She writes, "He turned left, and
we were on the right." In those few
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words, she captures the randomness
of survival in a moment that reshaped
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a school, a town, and a nation.
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Another passage of the anthology written
by a parent whose name is Susie Ehrens
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reflects on what came afterward, what it
meant for children to return to school.
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Ms. Ehrens' daughter witnessed the
murder of her first grade teacher,
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Vicki Soto, during the tragedy, and she
describes her daughter's second grade
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experience the following year in Ms.
Clements' class where she says, " Her
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teacher didn't always have the words
to make things less scary, but that
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teacher showed up every day and taught
her children, taught my child, what
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it means to be brave and to be kind."
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And those lines speak to something
that we talk about very often on
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this podcast, which is that quiet,
everyday courage that teachers carry.
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My guest today is that second grade
teacher, Abbey Clements, who has
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spent decades in the classroom and was
teaching second grade at Sandy Hook
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Elementary School on December 14th, 2012.
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In the years since, she has become
a national advocate for educator
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voices and conversations about
school safety and trauma healing.
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Abbey, what an honor to
have you on the podcast.
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Thank you for joining us today.
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Abbey Clements: Thank you
so much for having me.
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It gives me chills when you read that.
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Joey: It gives me chills
to read it as well.
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Yeah.
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Because it really makes me think
about the power that we are doing
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every day as educators, both
during and after tragedy as well.
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So I want to start by talking about
the, "If I Don't Make It, I Love You"
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anthology, because this work by Kleinman
and Archer is one of the first texts
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that I picked up when I was doing my
doctoral research to really understand
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how trauma impacts communities.
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And I don't remember if it was one of the
authors or if it was Fred Guttenberg who
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created the for but the anthology, which
covers a wide variety of tragedy, labels
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gun violence as a public health crisis.
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And what you do is that you have become
a significant conduit for bridging
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voices together to help them find
their healing in their aftermath.
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So before I get into some of my own
reflections with your own organization,
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Teachers Unify to End Gun Violence, which
you also run alongside Sarah Lerner from
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Parkland, a previous guest for us as
well, I want to think about how you have
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seen the idea or the act of teaching
actually evolve, and what do you wish that
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people outside of education understood
about community traumas in schools?
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Abbey Clements: First, I would like to
say that educators, school staff, what
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they do every day in supporting children,
guiding them, instilling confidence,
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teaching them problem-solving, talking
about, like, conflict resolutions,
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how do you deal with emotions, all
of that is gun violence prevention.
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In a country that refuses to get a handle
on the fact that guns are the leading
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cause of death for children and teens,
this act every single day from our
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school leaders is activism in itself.
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So I think the first thing I want
to say is thank you to our teachers
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out there, our professors out there,
preschool teachers, support staff because
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what you're doing is fighting for a
safer country by just doing the act
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of being the amazing teachers you are.
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So that's the first thing I want to say.
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And I say that because teachers,
school staff, they're on the front
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lines of this public health crisis and
they shoulder immense responsibility.
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At the same time, their voices are
not requested, in terms of having
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a seat at the table when it comes
to decision-making, whether it's
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like school-based, local, state,
certainly not federally, right?
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And they know kids best, and they're
literally on the front lines.
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And I don't just mean for like
a potential school shooting.
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But I also mean they are there to wear
the hat of parent, grandparent, counselor,
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when a child comes into class and there's
a desk missing or there was something
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really bad that happened in the community
and someone's in a hospital or there's a
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situation at home and you know about it.
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So there's also this like daily
responsibility, and yet, teachers
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aren't able to ask the important
questions when we see kids in crisis.
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They're not able to say to a parent
who you might call, "Uh, are there guns
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in the home? Is there easy access to
a firearm in your home? If you have
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firearms, I hope they're locked up
because we ... you know, I'm seeing
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these concerning behaviors." Simple.
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These are not partisan questions.
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And yet, that question could save lives.
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So what I want to say to educators out
there is that you are an incredible force,
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even if you can't say the words, and even
if you don't feel like your voice matters.
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And we are honored at Teachers
Unified to help amplify those
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voices, and to bring them, I should
say, to demand a seat at the table,
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because there's a lot of demanding.
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There's a lot of pushing.
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There are a lot of
uncomfortable conversations.
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And in terms of your second question
about, trauma in terms of, like, how that
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impacts a community, a school community
or a system, that is often not looked
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at, so I appreciate your question.
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Like, what happens to a community
with a large-scale tragedy?
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And the answer to that is, it is immense.
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And the layers of trauma, the ripple
effects, the concentric circles, the
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level of impact, and how do you get
support to all the people who need it?
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Because what ends up happening
often is that they think that,
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that proximity is what's seen as
the most needed in timely fashion.
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Get that.
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So important.
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Absolutely.
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What tends to happen is there's not enough
room for everybody else who needs it.
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Joey: Absolutely.
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And I love what you're saying about
teachers being those frontline
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advocates and workers in classrooms,
because we are the ones who are working
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with our students on a daily basis.
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And I was thinking even in my first year
when I was teaching middle school in the
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same county as Parkland in 2019, even
though my admin had known a lot of the
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students for several years, I was teaching
eighth grade, most of the students began
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in kindergarten at this K-8 school.
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I'm thinking on the day-to-day basis,
nobody knows my students better than
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me because I'm the one serving them
in the classroom in real time, and I
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can witness their growth on the spot.
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And what made me very angry and even
betrayed was when I was using my classroom
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as a way to, as you hint to, Abbey,
focus on prevention efforts by being
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present, by showing care, by asking
those tough questions that, looking
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back in the eyes of the leadership team,
really could have been seen as blurring
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those lines between a classroom that is
therapeutic and therapy for students.
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That was something I need to be
really cautious of, and, I've done
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several studies and podcasts as
well about what that looks like
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unintentionally so to some students.
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But one thing that definitely sticks
with me is how I had a student whose
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students nicknamed a, quote-unquote,
"a future school shooter."
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And when I brought that down to the
social worker, she's like, "Okay, well,
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what evidence do you have? What do
you expect me to do about this?" And I
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said, "My evidence is that last year I
was in Parkland. Do something because
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you know that." And she shrugged her
shoulders, and nothing happened to that.
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And in the between, when I was working
in Parkland the year before, much
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like what was described from the
Kleinman and Archer anthology, I was
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so buried in grief that whatever self
I came to class on a daily basis was
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all I had as a first-year teacher.
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We already know that the first
year of teaching is hard enough,
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but to have that compounded from
grief was so profound to me.
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And whatever I came in with,
that was my best for that day.
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And for the few students I still keep
in touch with, they say the same thing.
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They said, "We don't
remember your Shakespeare.
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We don't remember your
teaching of The Giver.
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We just remember that in the months
following our community tragedy, you
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showed up for us every single day.
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You were there.
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You were in that classroom, and you
talked to us, however that looked
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like." So when I now present eight
years later the Kleinman and Archer
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anthology to my own classes, when
we get to that unit of collective
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violence in one of my introductory
English courses, I actually always
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have them close read that particular
passage from Susie Ehren’s long
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before Abbey and I had even connected.
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So when I finally had this opportunity
to speak with Abbey it really meant so
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much to finally put a name to that face.
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So I wanted to ask, what does
showing up look like in the
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months following a tragedy?
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When you and your colleagues came back
to the classroom, not what did your
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classrooms look like, but what did it
mean to be present during that time?
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Abbey Clements: Well, it's amazing
that you received that feedback
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because we rarely hear that.
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And I think teachers who come back after
the most difficult situations, whether
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it's gun violence or other things that
happen in the communities to your students
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to, like, deaths in the families that to
come in, to have the strength, and I'll
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say strength, because we all know teaching
is physically and emotionally exhausting.
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And on top of it, to have the
layer of grief weighing you
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down is an immense challenge.
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And so shout out to all those educators
out there who come back after the hardest
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of times, whatever those times look like.
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I think added to showing up, we
know that the immense preparation
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that teachers go through before
showing up in the mornings, right?
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This is never talked about.
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You know, they say, "Oh, well, teachers,
you know how they have summers off and
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vacations." But nights and weekends
and vacations, teachers are planning
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and grading and keeping up with things.
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And so showing up after a traumatic event,
just getting there takes everything.
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And then on top of it, maybe you're
not able to, because how could
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you, get to that level of teaching.
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And the amount of pressure that teachers
feel to continue to be at that high
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level of performance of teaching is
ridiculous, truly, and it's also damaging.
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We were expected to resume the routine.
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I understand that from a perspective
of, like, what do the kids need?
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You rely on things that you can, and one
of them is getting or having a routine.
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It helps you kind of stick with things.
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It's muscle memory.
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But there was a deep expectation I
felt to be at the level that I was at
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was very real, and a lot of pressure.
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I'm not sure I even recognized that
pressure until later looking back.
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Joey: Yes.
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Abbey Clements: But what got you
out of bed, and many people say
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this after a tragedy, is like
you wanna be there for the kids.
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And being there, like they need you cause,
like, now especially if you, like, you
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went through something terrible with
them, but we often do that at the expense
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of our health and our mental wellbeing.
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Meanwhile, you have your own
families and your own trauma and
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grief to deal with on top of it.
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So I think showing up is
really so important to the
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kids, those who can do it.
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And, you know, I think about the teachers
who can't or who make a decision to take
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some time, and that is so much pressure,
and kudos to them to be able to make that
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decision to care enough about yourself and
your own family to say, "You know what?
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I know those kids need me, but I'm
not doing well and I need to take some
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time." But very few of us did that.
00:14:06.428 --> 00:14:09.619
And I guess that looks, like,
heroic or just what's expected,
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but, I know that it took a toll.
00:14:12.175 --> 00:14:12.595
Joey: Definitely.
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And something that I came to learn by
becoming a first-year teacher six months
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after our tragedy in Parkland happened
was that even though it added to my grief
00:14:22.213 --> 00:14:27.443
by being back in those classrooms, the
knowing that I was being depended upon
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from my students to be in their classroom
with them every day was greater than the
00:14:33.543 --> 00:14:37.343
collective grief that I was carrying on my
own, and I think that's one of the reasons
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why that presence was so important for me.
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At the same time, I'm also thinking
about some mutual friends, colleagues,
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and prior guests from our podcast as
well, Paula Reed from Columbine, and,
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gosh, what an amazing person Paula is.
00:14:52.904 --> 00:14:57.464
She has definitely been a frontline
figure in terms of trying to be
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the person that she didn't have
when Columbine happened in 1999.
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What Paula says on the Teachers
Unified podcast hosted by
00:15:06.663 --> 00:15:11.402
Sarah Lerner in 2025, Paula
says, "My story is not your
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headline." It's very clear.
00:15:13.752 --> 00:15:16.882
My story is not your
headline to sensationalize.
00:15:17.712 --> 00:15:21.392
And at the same time, we think about
just the presence that we have as
00:15:21.392 --> 00:15:26.153
advocates as well, where Paula says, "I
wanted to be the person that I didn't
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have when my tragedy had happened."
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And therefore, she has proceeded to
speak with many, many, many, many
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communities on her own around that.
00:15:34.673 --> 00:15:40.013
And Abbey, you met Paula as well in
2012, and one story that Paula shares
00:15:40.013 --> 00:15:45.143
on her program is how, Abbey, you
spoke up during Paula's seminar and
00:15:45.143 --> 00:15:49.583
said, "I just want my old life back."
And Paula's response was, "I'm sorry.
00:15:49.583 --> 00:15:54.083
You're not going to get that back,
but you'll come to learn and love a
00:15:54.083 --> 00:15:58.923
new version of you that will spawn
from this tragedy." And I think about
00:15:58.923 --> 00:16:03.743
people like Paula, like Sarah Lerner,
like you, Abbey, as well, who make
00:16:03.743 --> 00:16:06.093
that conscious decision to be vocal.
00:16:06.603 --> 00:16:09.763
And then, of course, grief is so
tricky because we have so many other
00:16:09.763 --> 00:16:14.858
teachers that have been impacted by
tragedies like this that choose silence.
00:16:15.318 --> 00:16:18.438
And the thing with trauma is
that it's so tricky that we can
00:16:18.438 --> 00:16:22.408
never assess nor determine, nor
is it our goal to rationalize why
00:16:22.408 --> 00:16:23.838
people make choices that they do.
00:16:24.678 --> 00:16:27.998
I can say that Elie Wiesel, who was
an Auschwitz survivor, when he wrote
00:16:27.998 --> 00:16:32.718
the memoir Night, he says that when
he finally broke that silence in
00:16:32.718 --> 00:16:37.878
writing his story 20 years after the
Holocaust, he said, "I survived to
00:16:37.878 --> 00:16:42.658
tell my story, but I continue telling
my story to help with my survival."
00:16:43.158 --> 00:16:48.878
So in terms of being somebody who's
very active in helping communities and
00:16:48.878 --> 00:16:52.258
working with prevention, I wanted to see
if you could share with us about some
00:16:52.258 --> 00:16:56.128
of the things that you've learned about
caring deeply for students while also
00:16:56.168 --> 00:17:01.158
carrying yourself as a teacher who's also
doing this work for larger communities.
00:17:01.872 --> 00:17:03.892
Abbey Clements: So much that
you said there is so important.
00:17:04.002 --> 00:17:09.582
When you talk about Paula, I, I
can see myself and feel what it
00:17:09.582 --> 00:17:11.502
was like to be around that table.
00:17:11.982 --> 00:17:15.422
She also had with her her
colleague, Kiki Leyba.
00:17:15.422 --> 00:17:16.092
Joey: Kiki Leyba, yeah.
00:17:16.472 --> 00:17:19.212
Abbey Clements: Who we work with
very closely at Teachers Unify.
00:17:19.212 --> 00:17:22.912
He's been a friend of mine for a very
long time, since I met him that day.
00:17:23.742 --> 00:17:27.932
And that was a real wake-up call,
and very hard words to hear.
00:17:28.662 --> 00:17:32.012
And I think as the story goes,
I may have slammed my hands on
00:17:32.012 --> 00:17:36.912
the table after she said that
because I just wanted to go back.
00:17:37.362 --> 00:17:39.842
Obviously, there's no
going back, you're new.
00:17:39.842 --> 00:17:41.378
It's a new person.
00:17:41.872 --> 00:17:46.176
But what I learned from that
day, it was like a snowstorm.
00:17:46.176 --> 00:17:47.686
I still don't even know
how they got there.
00:17:47.686 --> 00:17:49.836
It was only a few short weeks after.
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:54.044
What I learned from that time around
the table, is that you need someone
00:17:54.044 --> 00:18:00.624
like Kiki and Paula to come if something
like this happens because you need
00:18:00.624 --> 00:18:05.564
to know that there are people out
there who've gone through it, who
00:18:05.594 --> 00:18:09.684
even if they don't have the answers,
nobody can tell you, like, what to do,
00:18:09.684 --> 00:18:10.924
should you change schools?
00:18:10.924 --> 00:18:12.134
Should you stop teaching?
00:18:12.134 --> 00:18:13.044
Should you move?
00:18:13.754 --> 00:18:17.444
How do you do the same grade
when you get to that lesson?
00:18:17.444 --> 00:18:21.394
How are you gonna work on
the day, on the anniversary?
00:18:21.394 --> 00:18:25.164
Like, all of these, how do you
do a fire drill with your...
00:18:25.724 --> 00:18:28.294
All of these things, like,
00:18:28.884 --> 00:18:34.634
it's so helpful to know that there's
somebody out there who can just be an ear.
00:18:35.224 --> 00:18:41.487
And because of that day at the table,
I had wanted the idea of, like, a
00:18:41.487 --> 00:18:47.222
task force- Of teachers who have been
through school shooting to be there
00:18:47.222 --> 00:18:51.992
for other school shooting survivors
and teachers who have been impacted
00:18:52.432 --> 00:18:55.362
by gun violence was kind of immediate.
00:18:55.402 --> 00:18:59.912
I mean, pretty much started emailing
people, "Hey, we should have a task force,
00:18:59.912 --> 00:19:03.672
like, people need help with these things,
and this is why this is so helpful." And
00:19:03.672 --> 00:19:05.282
I wasn't the first one to think of that.
00:19:05.282 --> 00:19:09.812
I mean, I know that the Columbine teachers
have been advocating for that, and I know
00:19:10.302 --> 00:19:12.552
Parkland survivors had advocated for that.
00:19:12.552 --> 00:19:17.195
So this idea that there's a team out
there was very much in something that
00:19:17.195 --> 00:19:20.955
I thought was really important that was
lacking, and I'm super proud that we
00:19:20.955 --> 00:19:27.527
have a crisis intervention and support
team now ready to do that exact thing.
00:19:27.687 --> 00:19:32.117
So we are a team of school
shooting survivors and clinicians
00:19:32.117 --> 00:19:37.977
working side by side, ready to
support and also like an ear.
00:19:37.977 --> 00:19:42.647
So even if somebody wanted to just call
us, there's somebody from the team who
00:19:42.647 --> 00:19:47.687
will be there for you, because that was so
important to me, when Paula and Kiki came.
00:19:48.717 --> 00:19:50.937
And in terms of that responsibility,
00:19:51.127 --> 00:19:51.797
you're right.
00:19:52.047 --> 00:19:56.837
How do you speak about what happened
to you also when you're alive and
00:19:56.837 --> 00:19:59.439
when you haven't had the impact?
00:19:59.967 --> 00:20:05.027
Thank goodness, but also there's
like a tremendous survival guilt that
00:20:05.677 --> 00:20:11.871
I think is very much a part of my
experience and, how do you talk about
00:20:11.871 --> 00:20:17.444
what happened to you, at the same time
respecting way different outcomes.
00:20:17.564 --> 00:20:19.496
That's always been a very
big challenge for me.
00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:25.929
Let alone fears of like, I was still
teaching for almost a decade after
00:20:25.929 --> 00:20:29.959
the tragedy, so every time I spoke
out, I was kind of nervous about what
00:20:29.959 --> 00:20:31.669
the ramifications of that would be.
00:20:31.669 --> 00:20:34.899
Would I get a call from somebody
when an article came out?
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:40.509
I literally would kind of hide in
my classroom when I knew something
00:20:40.509 --> 00:20:43.979
was coming out that day, because
I was like kind of scared of it.
00:20:44.159 --> 00:20:46.719
It never been easy for me.
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:50.139
Even though I do it all
the ... It's never been easy.
00:20:50.139 --> 00:20:53.579
It's alway- it always comes
with a lot of, probably too much
00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:57.814
overthinking, making sure I'm
saying things in a respectful way.
00:20:58.581 --> 00:21:03.092
However, my students who are
now 21, they're watching.
00:21:03.472 --> 00:21:05.282
They're watching their teachers.
00:21:05.622 --> 00:21:07.762
They're watching their families.
00:21:07.762 --> 00:21:12.731
They're watching the news, these terrible
incidences of gun violence unfolding
00:21:12.771 --> 00:21:19.391
every single day on their social media,
and I feel a tremendous responsibility
00:21:19.421 --> 00:21:23.983
to do everything I can, even if it's
out of my comfort zone, which is much
00:21:23.983 --> 00:21:28.969
of every single day, to show them
that I'm going to try to do something,
00:21:29.045 --> 00:21:31.465
in light of what happened to us.
00:21:32.191 --> 00:21:33.061
Joey: Thank you so much for that.
00:21:33.061 --> 00:21:35.891
And of course, this seems like a
natural, even though wanted to come a
00:21:35.891 --> 00:21:38.741
little bit more towards the end, this
seems like a natural segue to talk
00:21:38.741 --> 00:21:43.211
about the Teachers Unify organization
as well, and the work that's being
00:21:43.211 --> 00:21:46.601
done by Teachers Unify, i... Wow, 21.
00:21:47.421 --> 00:21:48.631
Time really goes by quickly.
00:21:49.061 --> 00:21:52.766
And because our students are now
voting citizens, right, they're very
00:21:52.766 --> 00:21:55.696
receptive to what's going on in the
world with the current events, and
00:21:55.696 --> 00:21:59.676
they're looking at teachers like you,
Ms. Clements, to see how it's become
00:21:59.676 --> 00:22:01.056
a better society for them as well.
00:22:01.056 --> 00:22:03.886
So thank you for the work that you're
continuing to advocate and allow your
00:22:03.886 --> 00:22:08.286
students to recognize that beyond their
classroom walls from 2012 and beyond.
00:22:08.736 --> 00:22:12.276
So let's take this time to talk about
Teachers Unified to End Gun Violence,
00:22:12.276 --> 00:22:16.673
which is an organization that you are
co-running alongside Sarah Lerner.
00:22:16.673 --> 00:22:21.723
So tell us about the work being done
and how the organization has formed and
00:22:21.791 --> 00:22:25.686
what's currently being done in ways that
can also allow others to get involved.
00:22:26.363 --> 00:22:30.613
Abbey Clements: So after the tragedy,
after I could k- kind of get a handle
00:22:30.613 --> 00:22:36.467
on things, it was actually my daughter
who led the family in advocacy.
00:22:36.467 --> 00:22:41.287
She was a junior in high school, Newtown
High School at the time, and, she
00:22:41.287 --> 00:22:42.967
immediately started getting involved.
00:22:42.967 --> 00:22:47.067
So I would even, like, drive her to
some meetings, but I couldn't go in.
00:22:47.497 --> 00:22:48.447
I would just wait for her.
00:22:48.447 --> 00:22:50.957
I remember even hiding behind a wall once.
00:22:50.957 --> 00:22:53.817
Like, I know that sounds odd, but
I could not go into a room yet.
00:22:54.264 --> 00:22:57.724
I knew I was going to join her when
I could, but I needed some time.
00:22:57.724 --> 00:23:03.564
So, she started doing advocacy, going
on marches with my husband, and then
00:23:03.564 --> 00:23:05.714
that summer, we were both invited.
00:23:05.714 --> 00:23:10.934
I mean, it was really her, but then she
invited me to, like, a house party with
00:23:10.934 --> 00:23:15.724
Moms Demand Action in Connecticut And I
was like, "I c- I'm gonna go. I think it's
00:23:15.724 --> 00:23:21.354
time." And she couldn't go, so I had to
make a decision if I was gonna go or not.
00:23:22.034 --> 00:23:27.384
And I went, and it was
immediately my people.
00:23:27.754 --> 00:23:32.954
I knew people there, some people from the
tragedy, but it was like a room full of
00:23:33.564 --> 00:23:40.554
mostly mothers who were not personally
impacted and who were there to meet some
00:23:40.554 --> 00:23:45.634
people and to try to do whatever they
could to raise their voices on this issue.
00:23:45.884 --> 00:23:48.194
And I was like, " this is my path.
00:23:48.594 --> 00:23:49.894
These are my people.
00:23:49.924 --> 00:23:55.747
This is what I need to do." And so I
joined the movement just a few short
00:23:55.747 --> 00:24:00.947
months after the tragedy and loved
working as a volunteer leader with
00:24:00.947 --> 00:24:03.237
Moms Demand Action for nearly a decade.
00:24:03.837 --> 00:24:07.537
And I think it really tied ... Like,
I did some trainings, helped organize
00:24:07.537 --> 00:24:09.407
in Connecticut, I learned so much.
00:24:09.707 --> 00:24:13.177
But there was something that was
really missing, and that was a
00:24:13.177 --> 00:24:17.687
focus on educators, and I couldn't
understand why there wasn't a
00:24:17.687 --> 00:24:22.297
national organization for teachers
by teachers or just like a teacher
00:24:22.297 --> 00:24:26.639
arm of one of the main gun violence
prevention organizations, you know?
00:24:26.639 --> 00:24:27.589
I was like, "This is a good idea.
00:24:27.589 --> 00:24:30.679
You could have, like, a Teachers
Against Gun Violence or something."
00:24:31.420 --> 00:24:33.950
And everyone thought it was a good
idea, but no one was doing it.
00:24:34.810 --> 00:24:38.890
And I waited, and I thought about
it, and I would talk about it.
00:24:38.890 --> 00:24:40.690
I didn't really know
what it would look like.
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.085
I remember saying to my husband,
"I just don't know, like,
00:24:43.085 --> 00:24:44.565
what we would actually do."
00:24:45.845 --> 00:24:48.795
But I know that this is needed,
and the kids were growing up, you
00:24:48.795 --> 00:24:50.705
know, so all your, your challenges.
00:24:50.705 --> 00:24:52.485
And plus you need to work, right?
00:24:52.485 --> 00:24:57.830
So, almost a decade in, after the
tragedy, school shooting after school
00:24:57.830 --> 00:25:01.439
shooting, you know, community shooting
after community shooting, but it was,
00:25:01.488 --> 00:25:08.494
November 30th, 2021, the day of the
Oxford, Michigan high school shooting.
00:25:09.514 --> 00:25:15.694
And I was texting with Sarah Lerner,
who I had met, and another teacher,
00:25:15.925 --> 00:25:18.809
Sarabeth Rosenberg- Mm-hmm ... an
activist in New York City.
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.673
And we were in a group text, and I
know either of them very well, but
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.300
commonly frustrated on this issue.
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:30.637
And we were like, it's a similar text that
you text with terrible things that happen.
00:25:30.637 --> 00:25:32.097
"Oh my God, did you see the news?
00:25:32.147 --> 00:25:37.207
Another school shooting." Like, "Why
is this happening over and over again?
00:25:37.587 --> 00:25:39.107
Where did the gun come from?
00:25:39.397 --> 00:25:41.477
How did the kid get access to the gun?
00:25:41.887 --> 00:25:46.141
And where are the voices of the teachers?"
We never hear from the teachers.
00:25:47.081 --> 00:25:51.371
And so I asked them then, had no
plan, had no plan, just something
00:25:51.371 --> 00:25:53.011
I'd wanted for almost a decade.
00:25:53.041 --> 00:25:57.881
But I said in that group text, like,
"Do you wanna start an organization
00:25:57.881 --> 00:26:01.391
for teachers by teachers?"
And they said yes immediately.
00:26:02.001 --> 00:26:05.191
And of course, they're high school
teachers, so we had our URL, we
00:26:05.191 --> 00:26:08.191
had our we had our Twitter handle.
00:26:08.701 --> 00:26:12.631
We had a survey ready to
go out, in, like, a day.
00:26:13.516 --> 00:26:17.246
So that was, you know, four
and a half years ago almost.
00:26:17.536 --> 00:26:22.176
And we went from... I literally, I know
as a teacher you'll appreciate this, like,
00:26:22.176 --> 00:26:25.946
had all the states, you know, written on
a piece of paper, and every time somebody,
00:26:26.186 --> 00:26:29.366
teacher filled out a survey from another
state, I would, like, put a check mark.
00:26:29.746 --> 00:26:32.536
So we had, like, our first 100 people
who are teachers who joined us.
00:26:33.446 --> 00:26:39.709
And so, my goal was always to leave
teaching when I could, to do this full
00:26:39.709 --> 00:26:44.896
time, because As hard as it is to launch
a nonprofit and keep it going, it's really
00:26:44.896 --> 00:26:49.306
hard to do that when you're teaching full
time and then doing it on the weekend.
00:26:49.306 --> 00:26:51.326
So I, you know, had to take a chance.
00:26:51.737 --> 00:26:53.027
and so here we are.
00:26:53.596 --> 00:26:56.825
And I'll tell you some
of the things that we do.
00:26:57.040 --> 00:26:59.577
So I told you about the crisis
intervention and support team.
00:26:59.577 --> 00:27:00.717
Super proud of that.
00:27:00.717 --> 00:27:06.247
That is not even a year old, although of
course it's really decades, in theory.
00:27:06.428 --> 00:27:08.608
But we're super proud of what we do.
00:27:08.771 --> 00:27:10.801
And sometimes you have a plan.
00:27:10.801 --> 00:27:12.571
I mean, this is just like
teachers know this best.
00:27:12.571 --> 00:27:15.991
You have a plan, and you don't even
realize, like, what will evolve from
00:27:15.991 --> 00:27:19.761
it, and it will look probably very
different from what you had in mind.
00:27:20.571 --> 00:27:24.958
And I think even in terms of the crisis
intervention and support team, I did
00:27:24.958 --> 00:27:30.433
imagine that we would be called upon
more frequently when things happen,
00:27:31.033 --> 00:27:34.086
and recognize the challenges there.
00:27:34.146 --> 00:27:39.493
The same challenges that we had 13
plus years ago, which is people have a
00:27:39.493 --> 00:27:42.313
hard time coming in who wanna support.
00:27:42.663 --> 00:27:48.807
So we've got this system in dramatic
need, and sometimes the most capable,
00:27:48.807 --> 00:27:54.333
important voices that are trying to get
connected can't get in because they have
00:27:54.333 --> 00:28:00.364
their own plan, which, you know, I'm
sure it's done that way in protection,
00:28:00.634 --> 00:28:04.812
they wanna make sure, they wanna
vet. But many times communities
00:28:04.872 --> 00:28:08.552
don't get that connection that
we got with just Kiki and Paula.
00:28:08.552 --> 00:28:13.252
They came one day and I called
them many times in the years after.
00:28:13.817 --> 00:28:14.427
To help.
00:28:14.427 --> 00:28:16.097
So I just know the power of that.
00:28:16.097 --> 00:28:18.677
So I think that is more of
a challenge than we realize.
00:28:18.677 --> 00:28:23.017
But what ends up happening with our
team is that people are doing outreach
00:28:23.017 --> 00:28:28.037
on their own naturally in their own
communities, getting to know what
00:28:28.037 --> 00:28:32.837
could they do to raise voices there
to help maybe get schools to send out
00:28:32.837 --> 00:28:34.927
secure firearm storage information.
00:28:34.927 --> 00:28:35.957
This is a trend.
00:28:35.957 --> 00:28:39.237
This is something that's happening
in multiple communities, which is
00:28:39.507 --> 00:28:43.417
something very tangible that can of
course save lives because we know
00:28:43.417 --> 00:28:48.277
upward, at least two out of three school
shooters get their gun from home or at
00:28:48.277 --> 00:28:49.757
a friend's house or a relative's house.
00:28:49.757 --> 00:28:52.747
So like why aren't we
sending home information?
00:28:52.997 --> 00:28:57.340
You have an opportunity in a school
to reach a wide variety of families.
00:28:57.340 --> 00:28:59.030
Like send out just reminders.
00:28:59.270 --> 00:29:01.620
So this is something that's
like naturally come up.
00:29:01.620 --> 00:29:08.050
And of course, raising their voices in
speaking engagements, conferences, op-eds
00:29:08.540 --> 00:29:13.590
and we have gone to support different
communities, hoping to spread the word.
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:14.820
It's tough to get that out.
00:29:15.136 --> 00:29:19.771
And so we've got the team and
then we have our first two local
00:29:19.771 --> 00:29:21.941
chapters, which is very exciting.
00:29:21.941 --> 00:29:28.851
We have Teachers Unify Ithaca, and
it's run by four retired educators.
00:29:28.851 --> 00:29:32.671
Another thing, Joey, I've learned is like
the power of the retired teacher voice.
00:29:32.671 --> 00:29:32.851
Yes.
00:29:32.851 --> 00:29:34.921
A little bit different than
the working teacher, right?
00:29:34.921 --> 00:29:38.676
Because they don't have to worry about
what their students' families are going
00:29:38.676 --> 00:29:41.916
to think of them if they do advocacy or
if they write something that's in the
00:29:41.916 --> 00:29:44.106
paper or they're on the news, right?
00:29:44.616 --> 00:29:47.006
They don't worry about retribution.
00:29:47.066 --> 00:29:49.926
But they have these connections
and they're trusted messengers.
00:29:50.446 --> 00:29:56.136
So we worked with these four incredible
retired teachers from Ithaca for about
00:29:56.136 --> 00:30:01.276
a year trying to get the Ithaca public
schools to send out firearm storage.
00:30:01.346 --> 00:30:05.836
And they just a couple of weeks
ago got the okay, the green light
00:30:05.836 --> 00:30:07.686
to send it out two times a year.
00:30:07.686 --> 00:30:10.076
Now they're still having
to work and make sure.
00:30:10.766 --> 00:30:14.376
They're like, "We'll believe it when
I see it." But it's very exciting.
00:30:14.476 --> 00:30:17.356
And so now they're starting to think,
I mean, after like a bit of rest,
00:30:17.356 --> 00:30:21.666
like possibly reaching out to like
the next school district, right?
00:30:22.006 --> 00:30:22.975
Super exciting.
00:30:22.975 --> 00:30:26.535
And we're doing a
similar model in Newtown.
00:30:26.905 --> 00:30:31.943
After all of these years, a group
has emerged, and again, mostly led
00:30:31.943 --> 00:30:37.883
by retired Newtown teachers to get
local school districts activate.
00:30:37.883 --> 00:30:41.133
I'm also working, in the state
in another school district.
00:30:41.363 --> 00:30:43.530
It's like public health voice.
00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:47.200
And, it doesn't have to lay on the
shoulders of teachers, but, like, why
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.478
wouldn't the school send out reminders,
especially before holidays when emotions
00:30:52.478 --> 00:30:57.288
and stresses are high, and also right
before, like, summer vacation when
00:30:57.288 --> 00:30:58.708
kids are going to be out on their own?
00:30:58.708 --> 00:31:00.728
So those are some of the
things that we work on.
00:31:01.308 --> 00:31:05.740
And I mentioned presenting at
conferences, which I'm sure, Joey,
00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:11.466
isn't surprising to hear that it's
challenging to get sessions, brought
00:31:11.466 --> 00:31:13.786
in on gun violence prevention.
00:31:14.226 --> 00:31:20.846
Teachers Unify works at the intersection
of education and gun violence prevention.
00:31:20.846 --> 00:31:28.475
I feel like it's a tough spot because
we haven't been at the center of
00:31:28.585 --> 00:31:33.995
policy making, hearing of narratives,
so there's lot of work to do.
00:31:34.435 --> 00:31:34.855
Joey: Excellent.
00:31:35.235 --> 00:31:36.765
Well, congratulations on your chapters-
00:31:37.425 --> 00:31:37.785
Abbey Clements: Thank you
00:31:37.785 --> 00:31:38.635
... Joey: first and foremost.
00:31:39.085 --> 00:31:43.185
And one of the things that I'm thinking
about as well is just how we mentioned
00:31:43.185 --> 00:31:47.165
earlier throughout our conversation
just the repercussions that some
00:31:47.165 --> 00:31:49.715
teachers fear when speaking out.
00:31:49.755 --> 00:31:54.285
We could have several more teachers
than we already know that really do
00:31:54.285 --> 00:31:58.315
want to be active, but yet they're
also fearing repercussions in doing so.
00:31:58.375 --> 00:32:00.995
Therefore, they choose silence
in terms of speaking out.
00:32:01.565 --> 00:32:04.605
At the same time, I have a
theorist that I work closely with.
00:32:04.605 --> 00:32:07.895
We're actually doing an article right
now currently on a therapeutic classroom.
00:32:07.895 --> 00:32:10.435
His name is Adam Wolfsdorf from NYU.
00:32:10.545 --> 00:32:14.745
He says that when it comes to the paradox
that exists within schools, he says,
00:32:14.745 --> 00:32:19.435
"Trauma happens out there all the time,
and we cannot avoid that, yet the paradox
00:32:19.435 --> 00:32:23.305
is that we don't want to talk about
traumas that happen in here, in the room."
00:32:23.305 --> 00:32:28.345
Mm. And that causes a great, disjunction,
if you will, in terms of how we actually
00:32:28.345 --> 00:32:32.860
solve- societal problems, where in terms
of we know that gun violence is happening,
00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:39.180
yet we resist the urge to speak about
it publicly in conferences and forums.
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.220
And I feel like the feeling could be
obvious to people that are on the outside.
00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:47.405
But for those of us that are inside
and want to be the change agents
00:32:47.405 --> 00:32:50.885
to this, it's harder for us to wrap
our heads around why people resist.
00:32:51.335 --> 00:32:55.815
So from what you have witnessed, why is
there so much resistance around that?
00:32:55.845 --> 00:32:59.227
And how is Teachers Unify
trying to work around that?
00:32:59.962 --> 00:33:03.893
Abbey Clements: So if I understand your
question correctly, you're referring to
00:33:03.906 --> 00:33:11.305
the feeling that probably most school
shooting survivors and teachers
00:33:11.305 --> 00:33:15.065
who work in districts where there
was school shooting or some major,
00:33:15.365 --> 00:33:16.925
where, like, you don't talk about it.
00:33:17.205 --> 00:33:17.455
Yes.
00:33:17.455 --> 00:33:19.465
And you, you kind of
sweep it under the rug.
00:33:19.735 --> 00:33:21.115
Joey: Sanitize it, I'd even say.
00:33:21.175 --> 00:33:22.245
Abbey Clements: Sanitize it.
00:33:22.357 --> 00:33:27.770
think this is a tremendous problem,
and I think it comes from, or at
00:33:27.770 --> 00:33:32.101
least initially, the understanding
that everybody deals with trauma in
00:33:32.101 --> 00:33:36.751
a different way, So, like, we can't
make anybody happy, so we won't do
00:33:36.751 --> 00:33:43.408
anything, or we'll do so little, offer
a few things, and then, we're done.
00:33:43.830 --> 00:33:48.523
Then it really becomes instead of really
digging into that, everybody deals with
00:33:48.523 --> 00:33:50.466
tra- okay, so what might they need?
00:33:50.466 --> 00:33:52.056
What are best practices?
00:33:52.122 --> 00:33:54.866
who's out there that could be a resource?
00:33:55.137 --> 00:34:02.179
Instead, they use it as an excuse, and
it's almost the exact playbook in every
00:34:02.247 --> 00:34:07.905
school shooting where we know people and
have talked to people, where almost always
00:34:08.135 --> 00:34:13.759
the educators feel like this has not been
handled well, that their needs have not
00:34:13.759 --> 00:34:19.227
been met, that there's so much more that
could have been done to care both for the
00:34:19.227 --> 00:34:27.087
students and for the educators, and that
educators are the last to get the support.
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:31.640
which we've actually heard those words
several times over the last year when
00:34:31.640 --> 00:34:35.460
we were trying to kind of help some
communities and bring the team in.
00:34:35.710 --> 00:34:39.840
An acknowledgment, which is actually
kind of even pathetic if you think about
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.838
it from, decision-makers in districts
to say, "Oh, actually, yeah, I think
00:34:43.838 --> 00:34:47.531
you're right that, educators really
haven't been getting what they need."
00:34:47.959 --> 00:34:49.332
I think it's, deeper.
00:34:49.332 --> 00:34:55.461
It's, what you said about like
by not addressing how do you move
00:34:55.461 --> 00:34:57.991
forward in something difficult.
00:34:58.374 --> 00:35:00.594
I mean, just take the
word trauma out of it.
00:35:00.994 --> 00:35:03.314
Just say, how do you help kids?
00:35:03.314 --> 00:35:04.899
How do you help your colleagues?
00:35:04.899 --> 00:35:06.569
How do you talk things through?
00:35:06.569 --> 00:35:08.559
How do you work through things?
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:09.229
And I'm sure
00:35:09.279 --> 00:35:13.799
it's a microcosm, a school district
of society, and we have a tremendous
00:35:13.995 --> 00:35:15.915
problem with grief in our country.
00:35:15.915 --> 00:35:19.741
Like you're expected to turn around and
come right back to work after something
00:35:19.741 --> 00:35:23.671
happens, Like we just don't deal with
grief the way other countries do.
00:35:23.926 --> 00:35:28.017
But I find it really sad that
there hasn't been much progress
00:35:28.017 --> 00:35:30.057
on that in terms of what we see.
00:35:30.386 --> 00:35:34.896
interestingly enough, I just
watched a film called Run Amok.
00:35:35.596 --> 00:35:38.296
And it addresses this exactly.
00:35:38.668 --> 00:35:44.869
And it doesn't make the adults look
very good, but I think it talks
00:35:44.869 --> 00:35:51.256
about how do you have this enormous
problem of, like, a tragedy that was
00:35:51.256 --> 00:35:59.166
so unbelievably sad and traumatic,
and then how do you, like, do school?
00:36:00.026 --> 00:36:04.708
And I just think we have a long way
to go to really make a difference.
00:36:04.913 --> 00:36:11.287
all I can say in terms of what our
role is there is to try at every angle,
00:36:11.417 --> 00:36:19.266
often very frustrating moments, to reach
decision makers and try to chip away.
00:36:19.316 --> 00:36:20.886
Let them know who we are.
00:36:21.206 --> 00:36:23.288
Let them know what teachers need.
00:36:23.428 --> 00:36:25.956
Advocate for support.
00:36:25.996 --> 00:36:30.786
Advocate for programs that won't
even cost them money or that much
00:36:30.786 --> 00:36:35.756
at all, that you can connect your
teachers, with people who get it.
00:36:35.827 --> 00:36:40.357
As we hope to make some inroads,
especially when it comes to, like,
00:36:40.357 --> 00:36:45.347
training, like prevention and
intervention, postvention training, that
00:36:45.347 --> 00:36:49.970
hopefully, like, that will, teach those in
power that, like- " Hey, this is actually
00:36:49.970 --> 00:36:51.720
pretty good when you address this.
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.030
You're gonna have better attention.
00:36:54.310 --> 00:36:58.680
You'll have healthier educators who
are taking care of themselves, and so
00:36:58.680 --> 00:37:00.550
that they can take care of our kids."
00:37:00.820 --> 00:37:04.579
And in the meantime, hopefully
schools will start to get the word.
00:37:04.579 --> 00:37:07.189
'Cause, you know, they like
to be the first, right?
00:37:07.189 --> 00:37:10.979
Like superintendents and school
districts and awards and things.
00:37:10.979 --> 00:37:15.129
Well, let them take this on,
then, and we will amplify you.
00:37:15.558 --> 00:37:18.828
Joey: I think about Sarah Lerner,
and I don't remember if she said
00:37:18.828 --> 00:37:23.532
this on Paula's podcast or Kiki's
podcast or both, because she's the
00:37:23.532 --> 00:37:26.952
first to say that she talks about it
over the course of multiple segments.
00:37:27.422 --> 00:37:31.762
But when it came to the assistance
that she received in the aftermath of
00:37:31.762 --> 00:37:36.692
Parkland and their community, rather,
she mentions that the issue at hand was
00:37:36.692 --> 00:37:42.562
that the school board and the district
wasn't really sure how to assist.
00:37:42.562 --> 00:37:45.942
So I think in instances like that,
her conclusion was that sometimes it's
00:37:45.942 --> 00:37:51.102
better to really stay out of it, because
you're just not sure what people need.
00:37:51.502 --> 00:37:52.282
And because of that-
00:37:52.752 --> 00:37:52.832
Abbey Clements: Yeah
00:37:53.302 --> 00:37:56.042
... Joey: nobody was ever
asked, what do they need?
00:37:56.552 --> 00:38:00.082
And I'll also mention here, because
Sarah does it publicly, I have
00:38:00.082 --> 00:38:03.272
been taking guitar lessons with
them on several occasions as well.
00:38:03.272 --> 00:38:08.272
But Eagles Haven in Parkland- Oh ... has
become a wellness resource center that's
00:38:08.402 --> 00:38:11.722
about a mile away from the school,
where there are seven days a week
00:38:11.752 --> 00:38:17.202
classes of all different kinds of art,
performance, humanities, brain, body.
00:38:17.232 --> 00:38:19.822
Like I said, I've been very
inconsistently taking guitar with
00:38:19.822 --> 00:38:21.152
them for the past year and a half.
00:38:21.252 --> 00:38:21.492
Abbey Clements: Nice.
00:38:21.522 --> 00:38:25.602
Joey: And it's just a great space
for people who are and are not
00:38:25.602 --> 00:38:29.396
affiliated with Parkland in any
way, just to get free resources with
00:38:29.396 --> 00:38:31.746
what healing activities look like.
00:38:32.356 --> 00:38:35.256
And then first of all, I didn't
realize that Teachers Unify
00:38:35.256 --> 00:38:36.696
was only a couple years old.
00:38:36.696 --> 00:38:39.546
I think in my mind, because of how much
has been accomplished since- Mm-hmm
00:38:39.766 --> 00:38:42.466
it feels like it's been a lot more
established than just four years.
00:38:42.466 --> 00:38:44.836
So that's a kudos- Yeah ... to
all the work that has been done.
00:38:45.336 --> 00:38:48.456
So for those of us that are also
thinking about those preventative
00:38:48.496 --> 00:38:52.326
efforts, first of all, learning about
organizations like Teachers Unify and
00:38:52.326 --> 00:38:54.196
finding ways to get involved is one.
00:38:54.596 --> 00:38:59.276
But then I also think about
proactive versus reactive strategies.
00:38:59.276 --> 00:39:02.916
And I would not be surprised if it
was the Kleiman and Archer texts
00:39:02.916 --> 00:39:04.476
that talked exactly about that.
00:39:05.046 --> 00:39:08.296
When it comes to being proactive in
classrooms, like we said, showing
00:39:08.296 --> 00:39:12.516
up, having care, having presence,
I would even say that as an English
00:39:12.516 --> 00:39:16.846
teacher, looking at student writing
is a form of violence prevention.
00:39:16.846 --> 00:39:19.086
I'm sure Paula would even-
Yes ... say the same.
00:39:19.556 --> 00:39:23.136
but I'm also thinking about what
are some other proactive strategies
00:39:23.136 --> 00:39:25.946
that everyday educators, without
even realizing that they're doing
00:39:25.946 --> 00:39:30.696
it, can be just agents of care in
their classrooms to prevent tragedy?
00:39:31.562 --> 00:39:34.542
Abbey Clements: I think it's
really what teachers do every day,
00:39:34.542 --> 00:39:35.702
is the first thing I would say.
00:39:36.102 --> 00:39:41.062
And I think it's probably so ingrained
in your routine as a teacher just
00:39:41.062 --> 00:39:46.472
how you are and how you communicate
with your students, noticing, right?
00:39:46.512 --> 00:39:51.353
I think what frustrates me most when
I hear about a terrible incident
00:39:51.353 --> 00:39:55.580
of gun violence and questions about
the perpetrator start emerging
00:39:55.950 --> 00:40:00.324
and as we find things out, I get
frustrated when a reporter will
00:40:00.324 --> 00:40:02.888
say, " Didn't anybody notice?
00:40:02.932 --> 00:40:08.442
What were the signs?" And what I always
shout back into the void is, "Oh, oh,
00:40:08.442 --> 00:40:13.085
trust me, there were signs." And it
was the teacher, like you mentioned
00:40:13.085 --> 00:40:19.303
your experience before, that teachers
bring forward concerns all the time,
00:40:19.984 --> 00:40:25.064
but the bandwidth of we often have one
counselor shared among four schools.
00:40:25.064 --> 00:40:30.294
Like, there just aren't enough
trusted adults, nurses, people
00:40:30.294 --> 00:40:31.914
who kids can confide in.
00:40:31.914 --> 00:40:37.137
And teachers pass along the information,
but because we have this, like,
00:40:37.137 --> 00:40:41.891
unfortunately, we have trouble asking
these direct questions, they don't
00:40:41.891 --> 00:40:45.081
get followed through like they should.
00:40:45.581 --> 00:40:50.391
And so I think what I would just
say is keep doing what you're doing,
00:40:50.691 --> 00:40:52.611
connecting, notice what you notice.
00:40:52.641 --> 00:40:57.318
Keep bringing forward, your concerns, even
when you feel like they're left unheard.
00:40:57.769 --> 00:40:58.719
Don't let it go.
00:40:58.749 --> 00:40:59.719
Keep bringing it up.
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:03.923
Keep bringing it up, because you could
just, you really could save a life.
00:41:04.322 --> 00:41:08.836
and I think that connection that
teachers have with students is just
00:41:08.860 --> 00:41:16.029
profoundly important when it comes to
a kid's growth, and we'll probably have
00:41:16.029 --> 00:41:22.122
no idea how much we've reached kids,
but, being a model, allowing them to
00:41:22.122 --> 00:41:26.806
talk through things whether it's like
thinking through their idea of a book
00:41:26.836 --> 00:41:31.269
or telling you something that they're
having a problem with, equally important.
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:35.109
So I think I would say keep
doing what you're doing, and as
00:41:35.109 --> 00:41:40.070
frustrating as it is that when you
don't get help, keep asking for it.
00:41:40.690 --> 00:41:41.300
Joey: Thank you for that.
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:45.380
And I also think about just the power of
numbers when it comes to helping students.
00:41:46.470 --> 00:41:51.190
I know that when I was in the face of
students who I felt were in crisis back in
00:41:51.220 --> 00:41:56.130
my first year of teaching middle school in
2019, there was a point where I realized
00:41:56.130 --> 00:41:59.930
that I couldn't support my students
on my own, and so what I did is that I
00:41:59.930 --> 00:42:01.730
would go to some of their other teachers.
00:42:01.770 --> 00:42:03.850
If I was the class they had
in the morning, well, they
00:42:03.850 --> 00:42:04.930
had three classes a day.
00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:07.900
They had a class during lunch, and
they had a class in the afternoon.
00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:10.810
So I would go to those different
teachers and just say to them,
00:42:11.410 --> 00:42:14.740
"Hey, for this student, we need
to form a village for them.
00:42:14.770 --> 00:42:17.900
Doesn't matter if you like them or not,
doesn't matter if they like you or not.
00:42:17.900 --> 00:42:23.710
We just need to be a lifeline and a
village for the student so they know
00:42:23.710 --> 00:42:27.550
that at all times of the day, they
have adults in the building that care
00:42:27.550 --> 00:42:32.070
about them being safe for now until
the next adult in their lives outside
00:42:32.070 --> 00:42:33.680
of school can also support them."
00:42:34.490 --> 00:42:38.620
And I think building those villages
for students as well really is
00:42:39.140 --> 00:42:41.350
exponential to them and their support.
00:42:41.730 --> 00:42:45.510
So Abby, what a great conversation,
and thank you again for opening our
00:42:45.510 --> 00:42:47.360
eyes to what's going on around us.
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.570
And as we start to conclude,
I wanted to ask two things.
00:42:50.080 --> 00:42:53.193
The first thing is we spoke
in our pre-chat about just the
00:42:53.193 --> 00:42:57.103
public health epidemic that gun
violence has showed us, both within
00:42:57.103 --> 00:42:59.583
communities and in schools as well.
00:42:59.823 --> 00:43:03.473
And when it comes to the work you're
doing in Teachers Unify, what should
00:43:03.473 --> 00:43:08.663
we recognize about how violence occurs,
even for example, in domestic households,
00:43:09.023 --> 00:43:10.833
and the impact that has in schools?
00:43:10.923 --> 00:43:15.313
And my follow-up to that is where can
our listeners learn more about you and
00:43:15.313 --> 00:43:17.013
support the work done by Teachers Unify?
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.450
Abbey Clements: Thank you so much
for having me on the podcast.
00:43:19.450 --> 00:43:20.240
I really appreciate it.
00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:24.790
It's been so great to talk to you and to
get to know you over the last few months.
00:43:24.790 --> 00:43:29.951
I think when we talk about safety
in schools, we think about just what
00:43:29.951 --> 00:43:31.821
happens within the school gates.
00:43:32.491 --> 00:43:39.510
Well, there's a study from the outlet
The Trace that states that there are 57
00:43:39.510 --> 00:43:46.495
incidents of gun violence, an average
of 57 a day, in this country, either
00:43:46.575 --> 00:43:49.015
within or just outside of school.
00:43:49.325 --> 00:43:54.042
And I think when we talk about- school
safety, we need to realize that we're
00:43:54.042 --> 00:43:56.522
talking about school and community safety.
00:43:56.742 --> 00:44:00.860
A school is not just like a random
building in the middle of a town.
00:44:01.149 --> 00:44:04.017
there's special events,
graduations, all the things
00:44:04.017 --> 00:44:05.437
that bring communities together.
00:44:05.437 --> 00:44:07.577
Parent-teacher conferences, open house.
00:44:08.027 --> 00:44:09.997
It's a community hub.
00:44:10.597 --> 00:44:13.637
And so when we talk about school
safety, we really need to look at
00:44:13.637 --> 00:44:19.295
it like it is the entire community,
and that the teachers and the admins
00:44:19.295 --> 00:44:23.795
and the helpers and the lunch ladies
and the custodians are all a part of
00:44:23.795 --> 00:44:26.505
this ecosystem that is the community.
00:44:27.175 --> 00:44:32.483
And when there is an incident, when
there is a suicide by firearm and it
00:44:32.523 --> 00:44:37.693
impacts the school because if a child
went there or a sibling is there, when
00:44:37.693 --> 00:44:43.118
there's a horrible instance of domestic
violence and then the kids don't
00:44:43.118 --> 00:44:47.162
return, God forbid, terrible stories
lately it just seems like unending.
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:50.749
We need to really pay attention to
the teachers who are having to pick
00:44:50.749 --> 00:44:56.198
up the pieces or having to help the
students and their peers understand
00:44:56.478 --> 00:45:00.158
the enormity of what happened and how
to navigate their feelings about it.
00:45:00.758 --> 00:45:05.599
So I think this is definitely a paradigm
shift, and I think it will help the
00:45:05.745 --> 00:45:09.680
dire need for gun violence prevention.
00:45:10.300 --> 00:45:14.770
And if we could get some of the
funding restored for essential
00:45:14.770 --> 00:45:19.852
programming from the Department of
Education from, communities that
00:45:19.852 --> 00:45:25.731
have benefited tremendously from
community violence prevention programs.
00:45:26.189 --> 00:45:33.119
severe declines in gun violence incidences
due to investment in communities.
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:41.106
So I think if we can look at this
more broadly, it will help bring this
00:45:41.136 --> 00:45:45.073
issue back to the forefront, even
though it's hard to get to the front
00:45:45.073 --> 00:45:48.313
of things because it's so rough out
there in terms of what we're dealing
00:45:48.313 --> 00:45:50.505
with, at these challenging times.
00:45:51.075 --> 00:45:54.995
But for those folks out there who
are interested in Teachers Unify
00:45:54.995 --> 00:45:58.835
and learning more, please visit
our website, teachersunify.org.
00:45:58.835 --> 00:46:05.895
Um, we're on Instagram, we're on
BlueSky, we're on Facebook, and LinkedIn.
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:11.525
Our crisis intervention team is out
there For you, even if it's just you
00:46:11.525 --> 00:46:16.605
wanna talk to somebody from there, please
give us a call at 203-296-3689 or email
00:46:16.605 --> 00:46:21.705
us at response@teachersunified.org.
00:46:22.115 --> 00:46:28.304
And if you go to our website and
you click on join us, you'll find
00:46:28.304 --> 00:46:30.534
a way to at least get looped in.
00:46:30.534 --> 00:46:34.494
You'll receive our newsletter and find
out about, our community meetings.
00:46:34.494 --> 00:46:36.404
I forgot I failed to mention this earlier.
00:46:36.404 --> 00:46:38.564
We have a monthly community meeting.
00:46:39.184 --> 00:46:44.084
It's the last Wednesday of every month,
and it's open to everybody, educators,
00:46:44.084 --> 00:46:47.584
retired educators, people who are
just like, Teachers Unify and wanna
00:46:47.584 --> 00:46:55.174
hear more, where two Teachers Unify
ambassadors, are hosts and have a variety
00:46:55.224 --> 00:46:58.184
of topics and they have been wonderful.
00:46:58.184 --> 00:47:02.594
We've had about four of them so
far, and they're just an incredible
00:47:02.594 --> 00:47:06.734
way to stay connected and to meet
people who care about this issue.
00:47:06.734 --> 00:47:09.464
So I hope you'll join one
of our community meetings.
00:47:10.404 --> 00:47:11.424
Joey: We'd love to be present.
00:47:11.464 --> 00:47:12.204
Thank you so much for that.
00:47:12.204 --> 00:47:15.744
And we'll definitely have that information
available in the show notes as well.
00:47:16.134 --> 00:47:17.334
And one final question.
00:47:17.394 --> 00:47:19.544
Are there any final takeaways
for our listeners for today?
00:47:20.240 --> 00:47:22.370
Abbey Clements: Thank you for
taking the time to listen.
00:47:22.680 --> 00:47:28.373
If you are a teacher or you know or love a
teacher, tell them, thank you for all you
00:47:28.373 --> 00:47:35.430
do because every day they show up, whether
their lesson plan is completely ironed out
00:47:35.430 --> 00:47:41.070
or they open it up and see where the kids
take it, they are mostly a very, a trusted
00:47:41.070 --> 00:47:46.520
adult and, just share your appreciation
with them for all that they do.
00:47:46.930 --> 00:47:53.070
And I think spreading the word that
the importance of educators, especially
00:47:53.070 --> 00:47:55.370
in the movement to end gun violence.
00:47:55.370 --> 00:47:59.412
I would love a little shout-out here
and there because we're often left out
00:47:59.412 --> 00:48:01.652
of the conversation, but vital voices.
00:48:02.294 --> 00:48:05.344
Joey: of course, when this episode
airs in June, that is Gun Violence
00:48:05.344 --> 00:48:09.114
Prevention Month, so our efforts will
continue to grow in importance during
00:48:09.114 --> 00:48:10.814
that time and all of this as well.
00:48:11.254 --> 00:48:14.394
So Abby, thank you so much for sharing
your story and your perspective with
00:48:14.394 --> 00:48:17.984
us today, and you're continuing to
remind us of something powerful, that
00:48:18.254 --> 00:48:21.754
even in moments where teachers don't
have the perfect words, their presence
00:48:21.754 --> 00:48:26.134
still matters by showing up and holding
space and helping students rediscover
00:48:26.134 --> 00:48:28.694
themselves as part of a community hub.
00:48:29.264 --> 00:48:31.824
And you've been spending your
career doing exactly that and
00:48:31.824 --> 00:48:33.024
helping others do the same.
00:48:34.004 --> 00:48:37.984
Thank you for joining us on the Classroom
Narratives Healing and Education podcast.
00:48:38.324 --> 00:48:41.284
If today's episode inspired you
or made you think differently,
00:48:41.594 --> 00:48:42.544
I'd love to hear from you.
00:48:42.984 --> 00:48:47.064
Drop a comment or review wherever you
listen to podcasts, and stay connected
00:48:47.064 --> 00:48:51.284
with us on the @classroomnarrativespodcast
over Instagram and Facebook.
00:48:51.764 --> 00:48:56.414
Remember, together we can transform
our scars into stars in education,
00:48:56.834 --> 00:48:58.714
one conversation at a time.