CD118: BITCOIN ALL TIME HIGH WITH THE VOLTAGE TEAM

WEBVTT
NOTE
Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 3/9/2024 9:02:31 PM
Duration: 7397.225
Channels: 1
1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.560
Be really interesting year. I mean, I I sort of think of the
2
00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:12.945
like the free market is this release valve. Right? They, you guys have been talking about scaling Mhmm. Scaling Bitcoin.
3
00:00:13.724 --> 00:00:14.705
I think that
4
00:00:15.565 --> 00:00:21.359
the next wave of adoption like, sometimes I wonder, like, are the Bitcoin companies, are they actually ready for
5
00:00:21.740 --> 00:00:23.759
it? And And what do you mean by that? That's interesting.
6
00:00:24.060 --> 00:00:24.880
Well, just
7
00:00:25.855 --> 00:00:30.835
in every sense, like is the UX there, the company is ready to scale the number of users,
8
00:00:31.695 --> 00:00:33.955
you know, 10x to what they are today.
9
00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:37.500
And it sort of reminds me of, well,
10
00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:39.579
were people ready for
11
00:00:40.519 --> 00:00:41.820
the MIM pools being
12
00:00:42.145 --> 00:00:47.685
very full and transaction fees being as high as they are? They probably weren't really ready. There weren't too many
13
00:00:48.145 --> 00:00:54.810
companies or groups that were planning ahead for that type of environment. I mean, that was one of the things that we were expecting,
14
00:00:55.910 --> 00:00:58.490
and a theme that we were investing behind. But
15
00:00:58.805 --> 00:00:59.865
for the most part,
16
00:01:00.565 --> 00:01:02.905
people weren't really ready for it and
17
00:01:03.205 --> 00:01:05.305
but that creates this pressure that
18
00:01:06.460 --> 00:01:07.760
ultimately the free market,
19
00:01:08.300 --> 00:01:11.619
becomes a release valve and that's where I think the innovation happens.
20
00:01:13.260 --> 00:01:14.880
That pressures your opportunity.
21
00:01:15.265 --> 00:01:16.085
Right. That's
22
00:01:16.705 --> 00:01:22.325
for for any, you know, any capitalist, right, who any entrepreneur who wants to build something to relieve some pressure.
23
00:01:24.030 --> 00:01:25.969
That's I'm excited for that because
24
00:01:26.590 --> 00:01:28.450
the next wave of adoption comes
25
00:01:29.149 --> 00:01:31.250
and Bitcoin users and demand
26
00:01:32.795 --> 00:01:34.575
increases by 10 x or more,
27
00:01:34.875 --> 00:01:40.255
well, are the companies gonna be ready for it? I'm not sure, but that's gonna create opportunity for someone if they're not,
28
00:01:40.875 --> 00:01:42.175
to relieve that pressure.
29
00:02:15.459 --> 00:02:17.640
Happy Bitcoin Thursday, freaks.
30
00:02:17.940 --> 00:02:21.319
It's your host, Odell, here for another solo dispatch.
31
00:02:21.940 --> 00:02:23.239
We got a fun rip.
32
00:02:23.855 --> 00:02:24.595
I got
33
00:02:24.975 --> 00:02:26.675
12 people from the Voltage
34
00:02:26.975 --> 00:02:28.275
Cloud team here,
35
00:02:29.455 --> 00:02:30.750
for a party rip.
36
00:02:31.070 --> 00:02:34.370
They they've been having an off-site here at Bitcoin Park in Nashville,
37
00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:36.770
for the last few days.
38
00:02:38.350 --> 00:02:40.530
So we figured we'd cap it off with
39
00:02:41.255 --> 00:02:42.955
lots of good drinks, hats,
40
00:02:44.055 --> 00:02:44.555
wings,
41
00:02:45.735 --> 00:02:47.915
and, some fun times. So,
42
00:02:49.940 --> 00:02:50.840
here we are.
43
00:02:52.500 --> 00:02:53.320
Pretty exciting.
44
00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:55.545
We're actually live.
45
00:02:57.224 --> 00:03:03.485
I got I got Graham from Voltage sitting right next to me. I got Kim from Voltage who helped coordinate this whole thing.
46
00:03:03.950 --> 00:03:04.450
What's
47
00:03:05.630 --> 00:03:06.210
up, Graham?
48
00:03:06.590 --> 00:03:09.090
Oh, man. Just having a good time. Joining Bitcoin Park.
49
00:03:09.790 --> 00:03:16.745
Fuck. Yeah. Like, the live chat's ripping. How's it going right at I freaks? Thanks for joining us without knowing who your guests were gonna be.
50
00:03:17.845 --> 00:03:23.560
The guests were actually surprised as well. I believe Kim was the only one who was aware of this. Yeah.
51
00:03:24.100 --> 00:03:27.240
So how do you feel about it, Kim, that you're that we're live?
52
00:03:27.775 --> 00:03:31.635
Well, great. Because nobody could say no. Because I just put them in a room and put them on wings.
53
00:03:33.055 --> 00:03:36.980
The wings are good, by the way. I see someone asking about that. They're pretty good. And Lee's.
54
00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:40.020
It's a national local joint.
55
00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.954
Speak up. I said we were sold sock puppets,
56
00:03:45.575 --> 00:03:47.034
and we were given Matt Liddell.
57
00:03:47.894 --> 00:03:48.394
Yeah.
58
00:03:49.415 --> 00:03:50.314
1 and the same.
59
00:03:51.190 --> 00:03:56.250
We have to bring down the sock puppets. So guys, Voltage. Voltage is fucking awesome.
60
00:03:56.950 --> 00:03:59.290
I rely on you guys for 5 nodes now.
61
00:03:59.875 --> 00:04:02.375
Wow. Nice. I didn't even know you're that high. That's fantastic.
62
00:04:03.155 --> 00:04:08.640
Yeah. They're all there's some of them are under NIMS and, you know, some of them only only Nate knows.
63
00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:11.060
But,
64
00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:14.100
yeah. I mean, I've come to the conclusion
65
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:24.635
and, you know, a lot of hard core people might disagree with me, but I've come to the conclusion that if I'm gonna run a lightning node, it has to be on voltage because otherwise, it just drives me fucking crazy
66
00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:27.700
and cost me a lot of money.
67
00:04:28.880 --> 00:04:33.435
So that's why I use Voltage, and, I just wanted to thank you guys,
68
00:04:34.075 --> 00:04:37.055
for having, you know, an outstanding product.
69
00:04:37.514 --> 00:04:38.415
Best in class.
70
00:04:39.035 --> 00:04:42.160
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your business. And I Yeah.
71
00:04:42.640 --> 00:04:52.104
We appreciate it and I think that that's what we I mean, it's what we strive to do. We want the easy button, right? You don't wanna have to do it the hard way all day every day. It really is the easy button. So Harry
72
00:04:52.485 --> 00:04:54.345
says, just click the button. It works.
73
00:04:55.365 --> 00:04:59.224
Dude, weird weirdo robot is actually in in the room right now,
74
00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:04.450
but he's also a ride or die freak that's off in the live chat, and he just doxed one of my nodes.
75
00:05:08.935 --> 00:05:16.700
That's why I don't really appreciate. You know, I I use your service because it's a privacy first service. There's no KYC or anything like that.
76
00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:20.960
So the redesign, you guys just redesigned it. Your Wi Fi sucks.
77
00:05:23.260 --> 00:05:24.720
Park Wi Fi is mid.
78
00:05:26.125 --> 00:05:32.065
Can't confirm. But we're hardwired right now. Yeah. But the Wi Fi does suck here. Redesign.
79
00:05:32.850 --> 00:05:36.870
Redesign. What do you yeah. I was I was sending you guys up. I gave you, like, an easy softball.
80
00:05:37.810 --> 00:05:40.630
What what's special about the redesign? Why should people care?
81
00:05:42.025 --> 00:05:54.610
You know well, I mean, ideally, you shouldn't care at all because it just works and it's intuitive and you figure out, and you don't even notice because the design doesn't get in the way of doing what you need to do with Bitcoin. That's my opinion. But, I mean, basically, what we're trying to do is,
82
00:05:55.250 --> 00:06:01.405
you know, there's a lot of different products that Volta just built over the years, like, obviously, Lightning node's flagship,
83
00:06:02.505 --> 00:06:05.085
Bitcoin Core for some people, Flow LSP,
84
00:06:06.010 --> 00:06:07.310
now a little, Nostor
85
00:06:07.610 --> 00:06:10.190
in pub Lightning address thing we do.
86
00:06:10.570 --> 00:06:12.190
So a lot of different products.
87
00:06:12.625 --> 00:06:18.885
Oh, yeah. Surge, surge analytics. That was what I was working on when I first started with the company. Wait. What is the surge product?
88
00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:33.695
It's an analytics What is the search? Yeah. It's analytics toolkit. So, basically, yeah, you hook it up to your node, and then it, you know, collects data from your node, presents it to you in charts, graphs, tries to find this the data, like, the lower level data of your node and try to present it in an actionable way for you,
89
00:06:34.155 --> 00:06:36.735
to make it easier to It's kinda like a ThunderHub competitor.
90
00:06:37.550 --> 00:06:44.690
At the moment, I would say no because ThunderHub is, like, a lot more about, like, management, like, you know, open channel, closed channel,
91
00:06:45.150 --> 00:06:45.810
you know,
92
00:06:46.224 --> 00:06:51.284
swap, rebalance, stuff like that. Whereas, like, surge is just more about, you know, trying to service the data for you.
93
00:06:52.305 --> 00:07:14.100
But, anyhow, like, the basic gist of it is that we had all these different products. They all kinda felt like were separate tools. You kinda go into, like, a separate page for each one and kinda used it in its own little silo. And in order to kinda get to the next level, we wanted to make sure that everything felt like it was just kind of, like, one developer platform. Like, you go to DigitalOcean, and it's like you go to that website, and it's, like, all of their tools, whether it's, like, the domain name or the, like,
94
00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:17.620
virtual machines or whatever, it all they all feel like they work together,
95
00:07:18.400 --> 00:07:33.170
as, like, one kinda cohesive platform. 1 and the same thing for Bitcoin and Lightning. So the redesign was kind of really focused on trying to make it so that everything would feel interoperable and feel like it's all there in one platform and kinda paved the way for us to release new products under this new interface.
96
00:07:34.990 --> 00:07:36.450
And it looks really pretty.
97
00:07:37.470 --> 00:07:40.670
Very pretty. Yeah. It looks good. Steven's excellent. So what's with the
98
00:07:41.685 --> 00:07:45.625
what happened with the 2 factor code? Like, I had to put a new 2 factor code in?
99
00:07:46.085 --> 00:07:46.585
That's
100
00:07:46.885 --> 00:07:54.889
a whole like, we as part of not only the redesign of the site, we also redid a lot of the back end stuff too, adding team support, redoing our authentication system.
101
00:07:55.190 --> 00:08:04.505
And so that was we migrated back end systems for authentication. You had to reset it up. So that was the reason, but that was a very much I think it was happening now. I was like, am I getting rugged right now?
102
00:08:05.525 --> 00:08:06.585
But I did it anyway.
103
00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:16.810
Yeah. Surge is cool. Surge I mean, I said ThunderHub competitor, but you guys also offer ThunderHub in,
104
00:08:17.805 --> 00:08:23.185
like, my experience with ThunderHub is only through Voltage, really. Because before that, I was using RTL.
105
00:08:25.340 --> 00:08:28.720
I mean, I Surge, I feel like, is very much in its infancy.
106
00:08:29.180 --> 00:09:00.154
Right? Like, you can tell Yeah. That there's, like, a lot of promise, but it's still very new. Yeah. Totally. But, like, I think, now that in the new interface, surge is now better as a result. Like, before, there was a lot of confusion because it felt like kind of a separate product from the the rest of, like, the Voltage node. Now it's very simple. You start an LND node with us, and then there's just, like, a little button that says, you know, activate surge. And you click it, you know, decrypt your macaroon, and it activates search for your node. So it's all there in one It's in the home page. It's on the home page. And on many it unlocks many other pages
107
00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:10.230
with analytics that you can look at. So it's now very, like, tightly integrated into the management of your node now. That's part of, like, trying to make it feel more cohesive. So I think it'll be more
108
00:09:11.154 --> 00:09:15.735
people now, and it'll be more convenient for people to be able to see that data about their node.
109
00:09:16.514 --> 00:09:24.740
Also cheaper. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's because we changed the whole, the whole billing system too. I mean, like, Whenever he says something, we should just repeat it.
110
00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:26.985
He said it's cheaper.
111
00:09:28.725 --> 00:09:37.730
You whisper it from the corner of the room. Cheaper is relative. It's 0. You know, it used to be $10. Well, no. I'm confused. So, So, I mean, if you guys wanna bring this up Yeah. Yeah.
112
00:09:38.270 --> 00:09:40.450
First of all, the first time I used Surge,
113
00:09:40.830 --> 00:09:42.210
did not tell me the price.
114
00:09:42.565 --> 00:09:49.990
And I just immediately paid $10 accidentally. Like, I didn't even know. I just, like I pressed activate, and then I think I talked to Nate afterwards, and he was like,
115
00:09:58.045 --> 00:10:04.065
And now it's, like, built into, like, this API credit thing. Yeah. So we have plans. But I don't really understand
116
00:10:05.680 --> 00:10:11.140
how that charges me. Yeah. Sure. So I can answer, but if somebody else want to, so I'm not, like, hogging the mic.
117
00:10:12.160 --> 00:10:13.940
That's such a great voice. You're good.
118
00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:27.540
I'm good? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. So yeah. Basically, we have 12 people in the room, but it's just good. So, yeah, everyone else here is, like, my department to, like, correct me when I'm wrong, which is every other sentence. Nice. So,
119
00:10:28.400 --> 00:10:33.620
basically, we have got these billing plans. Before, it was very, like, AWS y, or it's like,
120
00:10:34.315 --> 00:11:00.135
hey, you know, you you know, it's like a couple of fractions of a cent or whatever per CPU compute kilowatt out, whatever. And that that was very confusing because, like, you don't really think about, like, Lightning nodes the same way you do the, like, cloud stuff on other platforms. You're not gonna, like, spin up and spin down Lightning nodes on a daily basis. You ideally want the node, like, running 247. Right? Yeah. Kind of point of a lightning node. So really just makes more sense for, like, a flat billing model every single month. Right. So we roll this feature called Teams, basically.
121
00:11:00.610 --> 00:11:05.110
And we have these different plan levels for how big of an operation you're trying to run. So, like,
122
00:11:05.410 --> 00:11:08.455
the lowest plan, you might just be 1 developer just starting out.
123
00:11:09.015 --> 00:11:11.115
The next plan up is $25 a month.
124
00:11:11.415 --> 00:11:27.765
You can have 2 users on it, so you can invite your friend to collaborate on your Viltage team with you. It also comes with several API credits, like 250 k API credits. So as you're using services like surge, it just deducts from the API credits that already come in through the What does that mean? I'm using surge?
125
00:11:28.145 --> 00:11:34.300
Yeah. So, basically, every single data point is an API credit. What does that mean? So a data point sorry.
126
00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:48.870
Okay. So we need to clear up our messages. This is the every other sentence part. So no. So and it's like testing. Your note like, something triggers. For example Every time I receive a Zap or a Podcasting 2.0. Every so I don't control that, though. Make a payment.
127
00:11:49.510 --> 00:11:57.770
Get your I get, like, I get Yeah. Thousands of one sat payments a week. And you get 200 Are those data points? Yep. Yeah.
128
00:11:58.605 --> 00:12:02.065
But it's like you're playing because of, like, 250,000 or 500,000.
129
00:12:02.685 --> 00:12:07.105
It's like it's all it's all aggregated up to a point where it's like you aren't gonna
130
00:12:07.529 --> 00:12:26.990
you aren't gonna worry about this the one set payments, like, all the time. Like, if you if you go over, like, your plans, like, a lot of API credits, you can just pay, like, you know, a flat, like, amount, or you can reduce it and, like, by you could just turn it off or whatever. So, like, it I mean, I was talking I was talking to Nate, and I was just, like, I'm scared. I just disabled it.
131
00:12:27.449 --> 00:12:40.444
Yeah. Didn't really understand. Like, that's just, and you this is a feedback. I'm giving you feedback. No. I I think feedback. And that's, like, that's why that's why we're different. Of this. I'm a different type of user. Right? Like, the podcasting 2.0 specifically is, like, I literally
132
00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:42.210
have,
133
00:12:43.470 --> 00:12:43.970
like,
134
00:12:44.590 --> 00:12:50.930
bit, like, lightning DDoS as a business model. Right? It's just, like, thousands of tiny ass payments
135
00:12:51.695 --> 00:12:53.635
that are way under the dust limit,
136
00:12:55.455 --> 00:13:04.579
that I'm getting to my note all the time, through, like, fountain and all these different podcasting 2 point o apps. And thank you, Freaks, for your support. I appreciate your stats.
137
00:13:04.959 --> 00:13:10.995
Mhmm. Yeah. I've been a node kind of in between that a few times. You catch these, like, just streams of payments. It's
138
00:13:11.395 --> 00:13:14.855
amazing. Like, right now it's happening because our HR was right before this.
139
00:13:15.315 --> 00:13:17.975
So that node is just having data points
140
00:13:19.470 --> 00:13:26.675
sent to it. Yeah. And then as soon as this gets published, it's gonna also get a ton. Mhmm. Yeah. You'll probably get a ton of activity after the show.
141
00:13:27.075 --> 00:13:42.579
And, but, you know, that's the thing. So, yeah, I mean, we probably need to improve that a little bit more just in terms of making it clear. When you activate search, it's like, okay. This is gonna cost you one API credit and show you, like, a little tally on there. Like, you have 500 k API credits or whatever plan. Like, shoot them. Why is Surge even
142
00:13:43.755 --> 00:13:47.535
like, if I don't have the website open, like, why is Surge even
143
00:13:48.235 --> 00:13:54.860
checking? Because it has to be able to basically ingest all of that data. So that when you open the website, we show you the graph instantly.
144
00:13:55.399 --> 00:14:22.964
So the thing that's, like, really hard with people that use ThunderHub, especially with big nodes Right. Is they open it and they wait, like, 2 minutes, go get a coffee, and let them know. In the ass, and then you gotta deactivate. Exactly. Go go to Twitter or not there. Yeah. And it's gone. I get distracted. And then I come back and I have to re enable it. Yeah. So that's the whole model of Surge is that we're ingesting, we're processing, we're making these insights for you while you're away so that when you show up, we can tell you something cool. I will say, like, I don't know if this is,
145
00:14:23.504 --> 00:14:24.004
something
146
00:14:24.625 --> 00:14:26.725
to give I mean, it is from my perspective.
147
00:14:27.630 --> 00:14:44.014
But, like, I went to my node, like, 2 months ago, and I was like, I gotta pay the because you don't have I mean, it's I pay with Bitcoin. Right? So there's no, like, reoccurring payments. And I was like, oh, I like, I'm I'm probably due for a payment to, like, Voltage. I was, like, 8 months past due and, like, my note has been deactivated.
148
00:14:44.910 --> 00:15:08.339
It's a I appreciate that aspect. Like, if Serge, like, takes too many API credits, like, maybe you don't close me right away. Yeah. That's yeah. Like covered on that. Yeah. That well, I mean, historically, we've we've done a bad job of, like, negative balance and things like that. But, like, yeah, we aren't gonna, like if you if you go over your all allotted limit or something, we're not just gonna, like, shut you down. I paid my bill. Yeah. Just to be clear, I paid my bill.
149
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:16.375
Yeah. So, like, it's, you won't you won't get just immediately shut down if, like, your surge agent uses too many credits or whatever.
150
00:15:16.915 --> 00:15:20.215
You can't even fear. Right? It's, like, just so many more. Right?
151
00:15:20.699 --> 00:15:33.095
Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like real auto is that's why if you look at our little marketing trailer thing, it's like auto scaling. Meaning, if you go beyond your initial allocation that you're paying for monthly,
152
00:15:33.635 --> 00:15:39.120
it's like you just buy a little bit more and that's just packed on at the end of the month. Right. Automatically.
153
00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:44.970
And there should be email notifications, fingers crossed, that go out. Like I got no email notification. We
154
00:15:46.074 --> 00:15:52.095
haven't done that yet. That you're just like, alright. May I give you an email address that we're gonna send was an email. Like
155
00:15:52.634 --> 00:16:04.425
but I just like, all hands on the table. Like, was it because it's like a was it, like, treated as, like, a VIP node? Or is that just like a No. You're an old user, man. Trust me. Like, I I I thought you were about, like,
156
00:16:05.205 --> 00:16:13.570
limit on, like, patch up and stuff. And it's like they're like, oh, yeah. Like, I'm getting wrecked on this or and I see a completely different experience because, like, they just, like, white list Odell.
157
00:16:14.430 --> 00:16:19.875
So, like, I'm not getting that treatment. This is what you guys are doing. Well, you guys gotta clean up your billing a little bit. Like, yeah, that
158
00:16:20.335 --> 00:16:38.955
that that that happened. That happened, with this latest update. So I checked back after the because I don't check emails. I just have to say, to be fair, you've never checked emails. But I checked when I saw I was, like, 6 months, 7 months, 8 months past due, and I was like, did they email me? Like, was this on me? It was still kinda on me. It was still way late, but
159
00:16:39.495 --> 00:16:42.635
you didn't email me. But, anyway, besides that, fantastic product.
160
00:16:43.415 --> 00:16:47.160
I feel like we got the voltage shield through, and now we can talk about Bitcoin.
161
00:16:47.780 --> 00:16:49.000
But before we do that,
162
00:16:50.740 --> 00:16:52.440
it's voltage dot cloud.
163
00:16:53.835 --> 00:16:55.615
If you're gonna run a Lightning node,
164
00:16:56.955 --> 00:16:58.255
which is not for everyone,
165
00:16:58.555 --> 00:17:04.960
running a Lightning node is a massive mental burden. It's expensive. Like, despite what Alex Bosworth tweets out, most
166
00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:13.025
people will never make money running a lightning node. You're gonna lose money running a lightning node. You you're basically just doing it for the freedom if you're individual.
167
00:17:13.485 --> 00:17:15.505
If you're a business, it's something else.
168
00:17:17.485 --> 00:17:23.279
But if if you're an individual and, like, you're, like, I'm gonna get yield on my Bitcoin by getting routing fees and whatnot
169
00:17:23.899 --> 00:17:25.519
with my, like, Tor only node,
170
00:17:25.899 --> 00:17:28.960
you're not going to. You're just gonna lose a shit ton of money.
171
00:17:29.375 --> 00:17:37.795
I, like, said on the other podcast on Revital recap, I was like, I wish, like, l and d just had a feature that at the top just told me how much money I would lose.
172
00:17:38.110 --> 00:17:43.809
And, like, Nate in the HFA texted me. He was like, oh, you could do this, this, this. I was like, I don't wanna know. I was just saying.
173
00:17:44.340 --> 00:17:45.410
I was like,
174
00:17:46.905 --> 00:17:51.725
I'd rather not know how much money I've lost. So we got a joke called Nate is a service,
175
00:17:52.105 --> 00:17:54.045
and that's what you'll get when you hit us up.
176
00:17:54.980 --> 00:18:03.000
They will give you all that. He's great. He's great. Keep him keep him. He's a he's he's a true ride or die. But if you're gonna run a lightning node,
177
00:18:03.825 --> 00:18:07.845
Voltage is the way to do it in my opinion. There is trust elements to it.
178
00:18:09.825 --> 00:18:12.805
Like, it's it's it's not a a trustless service,
179
00:18:13.570 --> 00:18:17.830
but they do a very good job of of of making it a freedom for a service.
180
00:18:18.530 --> 00:18:19.030
And,
181
00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:21.590
Steven mentioned earlier,
182
00:18:22.505 --> 00:18:30.044
they have, like, a really easy way to connect a lightning address to it, and lightning addresses have, for better or for worse, become a massive part of the ecosystem.
183
00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:33.010
So you can get, like, a nice little odell@vlt.ge,
184
00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:39.810
and then it connects right back to your node. Super easy to use. The the fees are are,
185
00:18:40.375 --> 00:18:43.434
you know, the the cost for your service is probably too low.
186
00:18:44.215 --> 00:18:48.789
Like, you probably can charge significantly more for it. I think I pay, like, $35
187
00:18:49.090 --> 00:18:52.070
a month or $30 a month all in or something like that.
188
00:18:53.090 --> 00:18:54.390
I'd probably pay more.
189
00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:55.750
Alright.
190
00:18:56.294 --> 00:18:57.414
Here we go. But,
191
00:18:58.054 --> 00:19:04.690
for everyone listening, as long as they're still charging that amount, I think it's a very good deal. Somebody get this man on the growth plan.
192
00:19:05.070 --> 00:19:06.610
You know, the scale plan.
193
00:19:07.230 --> 00:19:11.010
Well, that's the 8 months to pay. Oh, but we did. But I paid.
194
00:19:12.515 --> 00:19:13.175
But I
195
00:19:13.555 --> 00:19:14.215
paid. And,
196
00:19:14.915 --> 00:19:19.175
Yeah. And so my my last question before we move on to Bitcoin is,
197
00:19:20.919 --> 00:19:24.380
like, what's next for Voltage? Where do you guys see Voltage going? Like,
198
00:19:25.159 --> 00:19:27.900
what Voltage world domination? Like, what's the plan?
199
00:19:28.945 --> 00:19:32.005
What are we allowed to say, Graham? Yeah. I think it's best to sound new.
200
00:19:32.625 --> 00:19:38.960
Yeah. I mean, I think we got we have a lot of stuff on the works, especially being here at our at our off-site. It's basically been nothing but kind of that.
201
00:19:39.760 --> 00:19:42.419
But, I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunity to increase,
202
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220
both
203
00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:46.659
tooling inside of, like, Lightning itself as well as just general Bitcoin.
204
00:19:47.205 --> 00:19:50.005
We see like, we've been talking with a lot of customers that want,
205
00:19:50.565 --> 00:19:53.785
things like layer 1 services, like help with, like, Bitcoin core nodes,
206
00:19:54.170 --> 00:19:56.030
Explora, all of those kinds of things.
207
00:19:56.650 --> 00:20:03.630
And so we're gonna definitely be it's kind of weird to start in lightning and expand into layer 1, but that's sort of, you know, something that we'll be definitely doing,
208
00:20:04.585 --> 00:20:07.485
is increasing, you know, services around, like, layer 1.
209
00:20:08.105 --> 00:20:12.825
And then, yeah, there's a lot there's a lot more beyond that. So ultimately, you know, the
210
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:21.660
we, you know, we appreciate all of your, the good good things you've said about the service, but there's still a lot of things to solve. There's still a lot more to go inside of making,
211
00:20:22.375 --> 00:20:27.975
all of this, like, super easy to use and just continuing to solve problems. So that's what we're gonna do. So I think that,
212
00:20:28.695 --> 00:20:29.649
I think from
213
00:20:30.029 --> 00:20:44.745
a lot of things on the road map, this this redesign that we did is basically, you know, there's a lot of things in it on its own, but it really, the the big catalyst for us is it enables us to do a lot more that we have planned that we're gonna be doing, you know, over the coming months. So
214
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:47.600
a lot more to to happen.
215
00:20:48.300 --> 00:20:57.184
Should we mention any of what we have built here this week, or should we save that for, like, you know, big reveals? I think we should. Yeah. Talk about it a little bit? Yeah.
216
00:20:57.885 --> 00:21:01.105
Who wants to? So one one of the things that
217
00:21:01.645 --> 00:21:03.745
Voltage is probably the best at
218
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:08.100
and is still going to be the best at is providing a platform
219
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.820
in which those who wanna integrate lightning into their businesses, services, apps, etcetera,
220
00:21:13.164 --> 00:21:22.865
can find a place that they could do whatever they really want to. Right? We are everything is surfaced as far as, you know, what you wanna build the full LED API.
221
00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:27.490
Developers will know all about that. But one of the most challenging things about lightning
222
00:21:27.870 --> 00:21:30.085
from a developer standpoint is you don't wanna
223
00:21:30.645 --> 00:21:36.585
code something up where you're, like, doing reward payouts or something and test it on main net. Like lightning network is really, really
224
00:21:37.044 --> 00:21:42.270
hard, for test net type stuff. And I won't go into details, but it's hard. And so,
225
00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:44.430
we built
226
00:21:45.630 --> 00:21:50.005
can we just do full spoiler mode at this point? Alright. Go for it. So,
227
00:21:50.885 --> 00:21:54.585
we're gonna have a little developer sandbox as part of the node deployment
228
00:21:55.230 --> 00:21:59.410
screen on Voltage and where you'll be able to select not only Testnet now,
229
00:21:59.710 --> 00:22:00.210
but
230
00:22:00.590 --> 00:22:03.095
the, signet known as Mutiny Net
231
00:22:03.735 --> 00:22:04.554
will be there.
232
00:22:05.255 --> 00:22:11.195
Cool. And so now you can basically just define, like, your node infrastructure without having to wait,
233
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:24.035
you know, between 5 minutes and 3 hours for a test net node or I'm sorry, a test net block to be mined. And you could just kinda go to a faucet, get your stuff, open up your channels, plug it into your app or service, test it around,
234
00:22:24.735 --> 00:22:30.010
you know, do that sort of thing. So we actually built that integration probably to, I don't know, 80%
235
00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:37.510
done at this point just yesterday. In, like, a few hours. Yeah. The cool thing about that is, like, that's gonna basically make,
236
00:22:37.910 --> 00:22:43.595
like, you know, when you're just getting started hacking on a Bitcoin project, that's gonna make, make it multiplayer.
237
00:22:44.055 --> 00:22:57.320
Because, like, right now, a lot of times, if you start, like, okay, you got your laptops in the room, and your buddies are coding something up. It's like, one person is running reg test on polar. The other person's connected to their cloud node because they're, you know, some cloud chat or whatever.
238
00:22:58.005 --> 00:23:06.425
And everyone's, like, on kind of a different network. Right? And it's just, like, it's really difficult to be able to, like, have a solid test environment. But now what we're hoping with this product is that you use GoToVoltage,
239
00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:11.400
create a a Mutiny Net node, very quickly have a channel within, like, 1 minute,
240
00:23:11.860 --> 00:23:26.890
and then all of you know, all your hacking buddies can just be there. You can all be using the same node. Like, when you're building your web application or whatever, it can all be talking to the same mutiny net lightning node. You could all make payments to it from, like, your, you know, mutiny net alpha wallet or whatever.
241
00:23:27.350 --> 00:23:31.825
And so it's just gonna, I think, improve that experience and, like, speed up the collaboration
242
00:23:32.284 --> 00:23:34.304
when you're trying to build stuff on Bitcoin.
243
00:23:34.605 --> 00:23:43.250
Shout out Ben Carmen making the best shitcoin around. Yeah. You want Signet? Well, no. But the mutant has a fork and they have fucking tears. Right?
244
00:23:43.550 --> 00:23:47.414
Yeah. It is. So it's technically a Yeah. A hard fork shitcoin.
245
00:23:47.955 --> 00:23:49.815
He is the best shitcoiner. Yeah.
246
00:23:51.154 --> 00:23:53.095
Anybody wanna mention the other one we built?
247
00:23:56.890 --> 00:23:57.870
Yeah. So also
248
00:23:59.450 --> 00:24:00.830
everybody point at me.
249
00:24:01.610 --> 00:24:02.065
Sorry.
250
00:24:02.784 --> 00:24:07.205
You know it's a good team because everyone just immediately looks at Graham and then Graham points.
251
00:24:09.820 --> 00:24:15.580
Just So we unmuting that team. I was. I was on the other team in our hackathon, but it's all build that when you build 1. That we
252
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:17.180
it's it's weirdo
253
00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:18.000
Okay.
254
00:24:18.365 --> 00:24:27.585
No. So we we did Okay. We we worked very closely with the MBOS guys forever. Like, we're super close with this team, and we've always supported them. Like, it's a nice integration.
255
00:24:28.800 --> 00:24:29.540
And so
256
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.480
with their hydro with the Amboss
257
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.980
You're based in Nashville. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Right. I had lunch with them yesterday.
258
00:24:37.335 --> 00:24:37.835
Awesome.
259
00:24:39.015 --> 00:24:39.995
Yeah. So we
260
00:24:40.535 --> 00:24:41.515
did a hydro
261
00:24:41.895 --> 00:24:42.395
integration
262
00:24:42.695 --> 00:24:45.355
that we're starting to work on so that people can,
263
00:24:47.010 --> 00:24:49.990
just within their voltage node, just a couple clicks.
264
00:24:50.370 --> 00:24:53.750
And then they've always got inbound liquidity to whatever,
265
00:24:56.154 --> 00:25:07.350
not SLA, but whatever kept above the threshold. Yeah. Kept above whatever threshold that hydro can provide. So it's just auto buying channels for them so that they can be sure that they've always got the inbound liquidity that they need.
266
00:25:07.890 --> 00:25:13.190
Yeah. So it's actually cool because it's you know, we have our flow 2.0, our our flow product,
267
00:25:13.545 --> 00:25:14.925
which is our own LSP,
268
00:25:15.225 --> 00:25:23.020
and then we've now got this other way where people can go out to hydro and and get inbound from other folks too because we're really trying to build,
269
00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:24.480
you know, a decentralized
270
00:25:24.940 --> 00:25:27.600
ecosystem. I don't wanna provide all the services.
271
00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:32.560
We wanna provide access to all of the services. I mean, inbound liquidity is the,
272
00:25:33.535 --> 00:25:35.075
like, the number one headache,
273
00:25:35.375 --> 00:26:09.915
right, of running a lightning node. Absolutely. Not being able to receive payments. Right. Which is, like, the thing people usually wanna do with money. Right. It's, like, receive it. Yeah. It's really easy if somebody's like, why can't I send this Bitcoin? And say, well, you have to, like, deposit Bitcoin into the node. That makes sense conceptually. They get it. And why can't I receive this Bitcoin? Yeah. You know? It's like you need Bitcoin to send Bitcoin, but, like, I need Bitcoin to receive Bitcoin. That's when you start to Yeah. Lose them. Yeah. So what makes this cool is that you could say, I want at least 5,000,000 sats of the amount on my note at all time. Turn on.
274
00:26:10.295 --> 00:26:20.780
That's And you always have 5,000,000 sats. Right. It it but As long as hydro has liquidity. As long as you, like, want to get a little bit of a fee. Yeah. Right? It's actually can Well, actually, will the fee
275
00:26:21.115 --> 00:26:36.870
is it expensive or Well, we're planning not really, but maybe a couple bucks. We're planning on tacking that onto the bill at the end of the month. Yeah. So the the the fee is to pay the channel open from, like, the Magma marketplace that they that they have. So it's basically paying the the liquidity provider,
276
00:26:37.695 --> 00:26:42.435
which I know. There is too there's too many names in Bitcoin. Wait. So hydro is involved with Magma?
277
00:26:43.135 --> 00:26:45.395
Hydro is Magma is like automation.
278
00:26:45.870 --> 00:26:48.450
Usually, like, water and magma is like that.
279
00:26:49.470 --> 00:27:10.750
Answer. Well, then talk talk to them about their naming convention. Well, I guess, yeah. But right. Yeah. I drew like team product next. It's kinda like a market maker. Like Yes. Team. Nice. I I drew kinda like like finds that it's like, okay. You want us, you know, you need x amount of liquidity. We're gonna go on the marketplace and find one for you and go ahead and help, you know, arrange that transaction to happen.
280
00:27:11.095 --> 00:27:17.275
And I've set up I set up my node with Hydro yesterday to kind of, like, understand the user flow, and it works great. It's a great product.
281
00:27:17.815 --> 00:27:26.900
There's a little bit of setup you have to do manually on Ambos with Hydro. So, like, what we've done is we made it so for customers running nodes on Voltage, it's just kind of like a one click integration.
282
00:27:27.505 --> 00:27:30.885
They can just, you know, immediately be hooked up to the hydro service
283
00:27:31.265 --> 00:27:44.284
and not have to go through any of the setup process. And that's because Tony and stuff built an API that allows us to just integrate it into our platform really easily. So Ambot Tony from Ambot. Yes. Exactly. Yep. I don't know this Tony.
284
00:27:44.664 --> 00:27:53.309
Yeah. Oh, he lives Not in around here. Let's say that. I won't doctor. So But, like, you kinda doctor, not in Nashville. In a city.
285
00:27:54.169 --> 00:27:58.909
Yeah. Jesse's partner. Okay. Mhmm. Jesse's partner. Jesse's partner. Jesse's in the face of the operation. She optioned.
286
00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:00.190
Good for Tony.
287
00:28:01.365 --> 00:28:04.024
When I hear Tony, I just think Giorgio. Yeah. Yeah.
288
00:28:04.565 --> 00:28:07.705
Yeah. Not even his real name. So maybe Yeah. I wasn't there. Interesting.
289
00:28:08.005 --> 00:28:10.585
Oh, yeah. Right. And then that's part of our kind of larger,
290
00:28:11.610 --> 00:28:25.605
I guess, initiative to build more integrations with other companies. Yep. Right? So we're putting in the framework so that we've had a we know so many people in the industry. It's awesome. We love what everybody's building. And starting to bring that to more people
291
00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:29.620
is gonna be really powerful for everybody in the network.
292
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.900
And so it was really nice to build this framework
293
00:28:33.465 --> 00:28:42.205
for integrations so we can start offering kind of, like, more of a plug in kind of marketplace or whatever, something like this. Which is which is also what we we'd had an announcement
294
00:28:42.809 --> 00:28:46.910
yesterday or 2 days ago, with an integration with Bitwave, which is a tax and accounting
295
00:28:47.290 --> 00:28:53.725
provider for, like, digital crypto broadly, but they're we're integrating with them to make, like, tax and accounting on lightning specifically
296
00:28:54.025 --> 00:28:56.605
super easy. So you can just connect the 2 really difficult.
297
00:28:57.145 --> 00:29:11.085
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like you know, previously, how do you do it? You download them into, like, an Excel spreadsheet or something and then, like, you know, mess with them and up whatever. And so we're integrating with people like that because, like, you know, tax and accounting is something that businesses need to deal with. And so,
298
00:29:11.865 --> 00:29:29.615
doing things like that that just continue to solve problems. Yeah. And it's something that, like, yeah, like, tax and accounting isn't Voltage's core competency, so we're not gonna build tax and accounting software. Ridiculous. Yeah. So we're gonna we're gonna work with people that solve that. Yeah. Someone else do it. I think everyone would quit if I say that we're gonna build tax and accounting software.
299
00:29:29.995 --> 00:29:30.495
Yeah.
300
00:29:35.350 --> 00:29:40.009
That's awesome. I mean, high hydro it's it the inbound liquidity problem is
301
00:29:41.485 --> 00:29:47.105
as many different solutions as we can come up with for that problem, probably the better. I it's unsolved.
302
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:52.540
Like, I I mean, I appreciate flow, but, like, flow didn't solve it, in my opinion.
303
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:54.620
The first the first flow?
304
00:29:55.295 --> 00:29:58.195
Whatever flow. I don't think it would be like that.
305
00:29:58.815 --> 00:30:03.715
The flow we have today is very much focused on, like, noncustodial, like, mobile wallets, like, mutiny wallet. Yeah.
306
00:30:04.059 --> 00:30:10.400
And so it doesn't like, we we can adapt it to, like, the nodes that we run, but it's kind of serving almost a different purpose in that way. Got it.
307
00:30:11.475 --> 00:30:12.775
So yeah. So, like, the
308
00:30:13.115 --> 00:30:13.615
way
309
00:30:13.955 --> 00:30:14.455
I
310
00:30:14.795 --> 00:30:15.295
solve
311
00:30:15.875 --> 00:30:21.750
okay. So let's go down let's go down memory lane. I the way I saw the inbound liquidity in one of my nodes was,
312
00:30:23.889 --> 00:30:25.669
like, I I called Leishman,
313
00:30:26.289 --> 00:30:35.885
and I was like, dude, like, why do I need to be white listed to connect to River? And he was like, oh, I could white list you. So he white listed me, and I opened up a channel from my node to River.
314
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:44.820
And then I opened up a channel from my node to Bitcoin Park, and then Bitcoin Park needed to sell its Bitcoin to fund operations because we have fiat expenses here.
315
00:30:45.145 --> 00:30:56.120
So it went through my note to get to River, and then I had a bunch of sweet inbound liquidity from River. And then, like, 2 days ago, like, River just closed my channels. Like, beautiful, like, 20,000,000 sats of inbound.
316
00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:57.000
It
317
00:30:57.540 --> 00:30:58.040
evaporated
318
00:30:58.340 --> 00:31:07.165
in front of my eyes. Well, I think that, like, that's how, like I mean, just people do, like, ridiculous hacks. Like, that was a ridiculous hack to try and get inbound liquidity.
319
00:31:07.865 --> 00:31:20.095
And then it just can be gone in the moment and, like, in seconds. Just like some engineers just like going through the notes. Like, well, we don't need it to this random ass Tor node. You know? Just like, boom, closed. Well, and from their perspective, they see 20,000,000
320
00:31:20.395 --> 00:31:26.495
stats of their money. Yeah. Stuck in a lightning channel with a stupid ass tour node. Yeah. I'm a big guy. What?
321
00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:27.620
I
322
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:29.620
don't blame him. Yeah. It
323
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:37.465
hurt, but I don't blame him. But it, like, closed down so many channels. You could see it in the lightning graph? Yeah. Yeah.
324
00:31:37.945 --> 00:31:38.445
Yeah.
325
00:31:38.924 --> 00:31:39.424
When
326
00:31:40.884 --> 00:31:47.640
yeah. No one can hear you, but when River, closed down all the nodes, it closed down all their channels. Like, you could literally see it in the total
327
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:48.440
lightning,
328
00:31:49.780 --> 00:31:50.280
capacity
329
00:31:50.580 --> 00:31:51.080
charts.
330
00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:57.285
Yeah. I was I was one of those. But that was, like, months ago. You were like the wolf. And then they hit me again.
331
00:31:59.345 --> 00:32:11.465
And then they released, like I love the river guys. The river guys are awesome. I'm not trying to sit on the River guys. But then they would, like, release, like, a report saying, we closed down all these channels and lightning liquidity is still great. It's like, yeah. Not for me.
332
00:32:16.105 --> 00:32:24.850
That's also it's it's a interesting thing because there's, like, there's the there's the disconnect between, like, enterprise lightning and, like, you know, club lightning, if so to speak. And,
333
00:32:25.150 --> 00:32:32.505
you know, those things are hard to kind of reconcile sometimes of, like, you need to find those people that are willing to bridge that gap. They're, like,
334
00:32:32.885 --> 00:32:44.340
okay enough to connect to River where they're not gonna close their channel, but they're also okay with opening up to, like, these random plug nodes. Right. You know? So those, like, those kinds of services. And I think that that's what, you know, a lot of, like, the sellers on Magma
335
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.985
are more likely to be that kind of bridge.
336
00:32:47.365 --> 00:32:51.945
So I think that that will help in Do we need to is there gonna be
337
00:32:53.580 --> 00:32:54.400
a bifurcation
338
00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:55.360
of lightning?
339
00:32:56.060 --> 00:32:57.360
Are you kidding? Of course.
340
00:32:57.660 --> 00:33:01.600
Right? Like, there's there's, like, careful Woah. Let's go. Yeah.
341
00:33:02.635 --> 00:33:10.014
Because there's people that just wanna be routing 10,000,000 SAP payments all day long, and there's people that wanna buy coffee at Starbucks.
342
00:33:10.630 --> 00:33:20.885
Right? And so these are just, like, different scales. No. But, like, what I'm saying where there's, like, no connective tissue between the 2. Well, there will absolutely be connective tissue, but they will be, like,
343
00:33:21.665 --> 00:33:22.565
hard layers.
344
00:33:23.105 --> 00:33:28.210
Like, you your pleb node your pleb nim node with like 10,000,000
345
00:33:28.510 --> 00:33:29.410
Sats total,
346
00:33:29.950 --> 00:33:40.075
like, probably won't be connecting to River in a year. Right. Right? There's just like no reason for them to pick up their bank. What would it be today if you didn't call the CEO and say, hey.
347
00:33:43.415 --> 00:33:44.875
Their permission was involved.
348
00:33:45.575 --> 00:33:46.075
Great.
349
00:33:46.520 --> 00:33:51.740
Permission was involved. It's the same one. And so we'll we'll keep going there. I'm off to Boyz with him. Yep.
350
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.265
Yeah. No. No. But my question is, like,
351
00:33:55.825 --> 00:33:56.725
okay. So
352
00:33:59.425 --> 00:34:03.285
I get I get shit on because I shit on lightning sometimes.
353
00:34:04.820 --> 00:34:06.280
But it's important to realize,
354
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:08.040
like, I love lightning.
355
00:34:08.580 --> 00:34:20.727
Right? I use lightning on a daily basis. I rely on lightning. It's an incredibly useful tool for me. I run 5 lightning nodes including the Bitcoin Park lightning node. But
356
00:34:22.730 --> 00:34:25.870
I I there's clearly product market fit.
357
00:34:26.250 --> 00:34:33.975
There's clearly product market fit for lightning as a interoperable payment protocol for regulated custodians or just custodians.
358
00:34:34.515 --> 00:34:35.015
Right?
359
00:34:35.395 --> 00:34:36.615
It works fantastic.
360
00:34:37.140 --> 00:34:41.720
You wanna send money from bid for next to strike or from strike to river or
361
00:34:42.180 --> 00:34:44.600
or from river to wallet to satoshi.
362
00:34:45.385 --> 00:34:48.365
It works all the time. It's almost like 99%
363
00:34:48.665 --> 00:34:49.565
payment reliability.
364
00:34:51.865 --> 00:34:54.765
I do not know for sure if, like, the dream
365
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:57.980
of the sovereign individual
366
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:02.860
running his Tor only node being able to, like, pay people reliably
367
00:35:03.505 --> 00:35:05.525
reliably is, like, a real thing.
368
00:35:07.424 --> 00:35:11.765
And, like, I I see it. Like, even, like, the hardcore you guys are here for the lightning summit.
369
00:35:12.140 --> 00:35:16.240
You had even more of your team was here for the lightning summit than this off-site, I think.
370
00:35:16.779 --> 00:35:21.675
Or is it This is the team. This is the team. This is the This is the whole team? Yeah. Everybody. I put
371
00:35:22.155 --> 00:35:24.655
massive key managers. Who's running my notes?
372
00:35:26.315 --> 00:35:28.175
Okay. The computer. But
373
00:35:28.475 --> 00:35:37.475
I don't know if you guys remember. Like, I walked into the main room of Big Wind Park, and I was like, who's using wireless satoshi? I'm like, all the hands shot up. Like, so many hands shot up.
374
00:35:38.195 --> 00:35:38.935
And it's
375
00:35:39.235 --> 00:35:40.615
it's like even the hardcores
376
00:35:41.075 --> 00:35:41.575
are
377
00:35:42.115 --> 00:35:48.320
I mean, the other day on Revital Recap, I got shot on because I was like, if you're using an iPhone, like, consider, like, Phoenix with the iCloud backups.
378
00:35:48.940 --> 00:35:50.960
You know? And and because it just works.
379
00:35:51.580 --> 00:35:52.880
And so is there
380
00:35:53.500 --> 00:35:55.280
what do you guys think about, like,
381
00:35:56.805 --> 00:36:01.944
that comment? I mean, I don't really have a question. What do you guys think about this idea of, like is is
382
00:36:02.860 --> 00:36:06.240
is the dream of, like, the sovereign individual running a
383
00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:08.560
Tor lightning node
384
00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:09.520
alive?
385
00:36:09.865 --> 00:36:14.445
And I think not today, but in the future, definitely. It'll be a lot easier,
386
00:36:15.465 --> 00:36:17.890
once when a couple more solutions come out
387
00:36:18.289 --> 00:36:19.990
We can't really talk about right now.
388
00:36:20.369 --> 00:36:20.690
But,
389
00:36:22.450 --> 00:36:29.115
I think the biggest issue is you have to run a server somewhere. So how do you make that so easy that it's just clicking a button
390
00:36:29.415 --> 00:36:30.395
and that's it?
391
00:36:30.855 --> 00:36:33.035
We're not there yet, but we're gonna get there.
392
00:36:34.670 --> 00:36:36.690
So the dream's alive and it's possible.
393
00:36:36.990 --> 00:36:38.289
And your other question about
394
00:36:39.470 --> 00:36:40.529
the network splitting
395
00:36:40.845 --> 00:36:53.220
between, like, business stock new each other Yeah. And, like, individual people. Those are, like, 2 different I think of those as 2 different products or 2 different networks. Well, the thing is I mean, that's what a network is. I know. It doesn't necessarily have to be. Right? So
396
00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:54.580
who's servicing
397
00:36:55.434 --> 00:36:56.255
a small business?
398
00:36:57.434 --> 00:37:00.095
That's gonna be big business talking small business,
399
00:37:00.635 --> 00:37:06.059
and then it's individuals connecting to the small business node. And then that way, you have the whole connection
400
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:07.339
of the network.
401
00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:09.900
So it'll still work that way. Right?
402
00:37:10.279 --> 00:37:13.339
So you don't necessarily have 2 completely separate networks.
403
00:37:13.735 --> 00:37:16.955
There's gonna be like that piece connecting them, the small business.
404
00:37:17.575 --> 00:37:19.355
Like that's that's where it all
405
00:37:19.895 --> 00:37:20.715
stays together.
406
00:37:21.015 --> 00:37:25.270
Right. Because you'll have individual people that have like somebody that's producing something
407
00:37:25.570 --> 00:37:26.790
they want that's local.
408
00:37:27.170 --> 00:37:29.350
And then they have to pay their provider,
409
00:37:29.775 --> 00:37:37.075
like whatever they're sourcing the materials from. And those providers gonna have much bigger nodes, and I'll actually talk to the banking network, whatever that is.
410
00:37:37.410 --> 00:37:41.110
But everything Well, that's that's the problem. It works as long as there's, like,
411
00:37:41.730 --> 00:38:04.895
even 1 or 2 channels that are Right. Connecting the 2 worlds. Yeah. But But what if there aren't? But the thing is, there are some There will always be. That's why the market is solved. Right? This is like Yeah. People There's all this before. You have a small business. But if you're sourcing Who are you doing that? You're sourcing material from somebody with supply chain. You might be That's where it comes from. Yeah. So I think he's like Yeah. This ain't no Tony.
412
00:38:05.295 --> 00:38:13.315
Yeah. I'm not looking at Tony. I'm not I'm not Yeah. The the scaling lightning thing is, like, getting it everywhere is freaking hard.
413
00:38:13.970 --> 00:38:17.430
But you can I mean, I think that, like, we have to, like, reevaluate
414
00:38:18.210 --> 00:38:28.605
what we think, a lightning wallet or a lightning node is because, like What is a lightning node? I mean, a lightning node is something that's, you know, connected to the lightning network, I guess. But the thing about
415
00:38:30.345 --> 00:38:43.355
it a little answer, Steve. But the thing about it is that we have this monolithic view of what a lightning node is, and it's like, it's gonna have everything. It's gonna have it's gonna have an on chain wallet. It's going to, gossip with peers.
416
00:38:43.735 --> 00:38:45.675
It's gonna, you know, send Lightning messages.
417
00:38:46.215 --> 00:38:53.039
It's it have a you know, construct its own full channel graph. It's gonna do all of the complex. If you go through Mastering Lightning,
418
00:38:53.420 --> 00:39:00.444
we have this idea the book Mastering Lightning. We have this idea that a lightning node is going to follow every single chapter of that book. And do you Have you read the book? Yeah.
419
00:39:00.825 --> 00:39:01.724
Wow. Yeah.
420
00:39:02.424 --> 00:39:07.640
Raise your hands. Who's read the book? We have internal voltage book club. So Really? We have we have a book club
421
00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:28.250
that knows what they went through. Yeah. But the thing the thing about it is that, like, you know, like, now you can you can pair things down for mobile. Like, if you're running a routing node It's like Like, if you're running a routing node, you wanna have everything on it. Like, you wanna you wanna have it doing, you know, everything, like, self sovereign. But, like, if you just have your thing on a phone, you could use something like rapid gossip sync and just, like, pull down,
422
00:39:28.875 --> 00:39:37.055
you know, peer information from the Lightning service provider. Like, that phone doesn't need to do much except for hold the user's keys so that it's self custodial.
423
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:38.840
Yeah. But then you're not a
424
00:39:39.540 --> 00:39:41.860
it's not a lightning node. It is. And this
425
00:39:42.420 --> 00:39:43.960
we've already seen this bifurcation
426
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:45.320
happen between,
427
00:39:45.875 --> 00:39:48.135
like, mute fucking Tony over here.
428
00:39:48.675 --> 00:39:53.335
So Mute me. Like, mute me runs nodes in the phone.
429
00:39:53.700 --> 00:40:16.750
Nobody's gonna route over a mutiny node ever. That's not part of the contract. That's not part of the Right. Zeus does the same thing. Nothing. Right? But Zeus does it with LND. But Sonya does it with If you wanna run a routing node, if you wanna be one of those central parts of the graph, you're gonna run on voltage. You're gonna run like, whatever, something like that. We've already seen this, and there's people that are super happy serving this. Yeah. But there's different levels than like, that I mean,
430
00:40:17.050 --> 00:40:22.204
there's different levels of lightning node. Like Yeah. Right? Right. Yeah. Exactly. Not the same. That's
431
00:40:22.744 --> 00:40:25.244
When you're a lightning network participant, I don't know.
432
00:40:25.545 --> 00:40:30.820
I love immunity. Mutiny is fucking awesome. They're my boys. You know, Evan's my boy.
433
00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:38.180
Like, it requires a level of trust. Right? Like, Olympus can on Zeus can just, like, close my channel at will.
434
00:40:38.595 --> 00:40:59.375
I've had I've had force close it. The the my first experience with Unity was just, like, an immediate force close. They're like, Matt, thank you for your bug report. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I get it. Like You know, like, it's a completely different world than, like, actually running a But for mobile wallet users A real lightning node. Yeah. Sure. But I don't think anyone cares about running a real lightning node. I
435
00:41:00.335 --> 00:41:34.835
I'm serious. This is good. Like, people want to be able to send and receive money. And, you know, Bitcoin's the best money, so maybe one day people will wanna send and receive Bitcoin. So, like, they they this isn't, like, what the user or the customer is asking for. They're not like, you know, it's like a user story. It's like, as a user, I want to run a Lightning node so that I can open channels, so that I can monitor fee rates. No. It's, as a user, I wanna send and receive money. That's what the user story is. That's what the ask is. And so a mobile lightning wallet can satisfy that user ask and, like, look. I get it. Olympus, Zeus,
436
00:41:35.135 --> 00:41:52.050
mobile is an issue still. It is. And, look, I get it. There's probably issues with the, the mobile Zeus. There was Well, Tony hates how Zeus does it. And there's probably issues with wallet too. Does not receive. Yeah. This is this is all this is all, like, alpha stuff too. Has solved it by, like, you're not receiving pay. Yeah.
437
00:41:52.910 --> 00:42:00.850
But here's And Evan has solved it in a way that mutiny is not happy about Yeah. Because channels just get force closed. Oh, look at it. Just so we're in alpha,
438
00:42:01.635 --> 00:42:17.559
deep alpha territory right now where shit's broken as fuck, and that's just the reality of the situation. But I think Sorry. Sorry to say the vision the vision. I'll try it somewhere else here. Like, the vision is just that, you know, if we just wanna get people to send and receive, you know, payments over their phone,
439
00:42:18.099 --> 00:42:25.744
you don't need, like, a 1000000 channels. You don't need to manage those channels. The Lightning service provider should have a market incentive
440
00:42:26.045 --> 00:42:26.545
to
441
00:42:27.005 --> 00:42:28.865
provide inbound liquidity to users,
442
00:42:29.190 --> 00:42:35.349
maintain that channel, nourish that channel over time because they have an incentive to, you know, collect fees on,
443
00:42:35.670 --> 00:42:43.995
connecting those people to the Lightning Network. So, like, I just I think that for a mobile wallet, you're not really thinking about you're not worried. You the user shouldn't have to worry about,
444
00:42:44.295 --> 00:43:00.815
you know, whether the channel's open or closed, or what the fee rate is, or what the peers are, the the network graph, or anything like that. The mobile wallet user is just concerned, can I send or receive? And the Lightning service provider, if they're doing their job really, really, really well, which I hope they do, then they should be, incentivized
445
00:43:01.115 --> 00:43:06.415
to make sure that they are providing that service at all times. So we have over a 1000 people in here right now, and,
446
00:43:07.460 --> 00:43:09.480
well, not in the room. In the room, we have 13.
447
00:43:10.660 --> 00:43:12.120
You like that? Yeah.
448
00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:15.080
I want this to be, like, the most
449
00:43:15.515 --> 00:43:16.494
overly technical
450
00:43:17.355 --> 00:43:23.214
party podcast that's ever existed. Alright. I'm gonna go cosmic then. Wait a minute. Before you go cosmic.
451
00:43:24.549 --> 00:43:25.930
Before you go cosmic.
452
00:43:26.230 --> 00:43:26.730
Mhmm.
453
00:43:27.109 --> 00:43:29.930
So I got in trouble. Right? Because I posted the meme
454
00:43:30.549 --> 00:43:35.005
of the, like, the train hitting the school bus. Right? And, like, people
455
00:43:35.305 --> 00:43:47.190
on Nostar underneath me were like, that's not like, you shouldn't fuck around with, like, trains hitting school buses. Like, I have a child. Like, I don't want a train to hit a school bus. Like, I assume the school bus is empty in the meme. You know?
456
00:43:47.650 --> 00:43:48.075
But
457
00:43:49.115 --> 00:43:50.815
my point is what?
458
00:43:51.355 --> 00:43:51.855
Wow.
459
00:43:52.954 --> 00:43:54.095
My point is
460
00:43:54.635 --> 00:43:55.135
is
461
00:43:55.930 --> 00:43:59.390
is fees going up. Right? On chain fees going up Yeah.
462
00:44:00.010 --> 00:44:02.910
Raises the stakes significantly here because,
463
00:44:04.005 --> 00:44:04.505
like,
464
00:44:05.045 --> 00:44:10.265
it's one thing if you have, like, a long term relationship with your LSP where they nourish your channels.
465
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:19.060
Right? But, like, if they're not nourishing your channels and they just you get closed on, you like, I I'm curious, like, how you guys think about,
466
00:44:19.894 --> 00:44:28.714
like, the stake I feel like the stakes are getting higher. Right? Like, we're I mean, I started this I started this episode off with a clip from my partner at 1031 Grant.
467
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:31.100
And he's
468
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:36.060
like, okay. Like, a lot of us are very bullish right now. Like, we we we recently hit, like,
469
00:44:36.734 --> 00:44:41.555
kinda like a false all time high, like, 2 days ago, 3 days ago, and then just immediately dumped $8,000.
470
00:44:44.150 --> 00:44:50.490
Like, it feels like things are, like, boiling up. Like, we're hitting I mean, before having, we're hitting we're hitting all time highs.
471
00:44:51.270 --> 00:44:52.250
Fees are up.
472
00:44:52.595 --> 00:44:57.175
Hash, like, hash rate is fucking skyrocketing. The macro environment's fucking insane.
473
00:44:57.635 --> 00:45:02.540
We have ETFs going crazy. All of a sudden, like, the suits are coming in. Like, pensions are coming
474
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:06.140
in. Like, I I kind of right here, I mean,
475
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:20.530
it's been like a year of me saying in all caps, mempools will never clear again. But I feel like the on chain fees increasing is all of a sudden really changing the game in terms of how we can play with lightning and and, like, how end users are seeing it.
476
00:45:20.830 --> 00:45:22.690
And so, like, if you have an end user
477
00:45:23.150 --> 00:45:25.410
who, you know, maybe has, like, $500
478
00:45:25.710 --> 00:45:37.425
in their wallet and then all of a sudden gets hit with, a $40 transaction fee or something like that. Like, that is like that can be devastating for a person. Mhmm. Right? Like, Bitcoin is, like, talking about Global South. Like, that can be absolutely devastating
479
00:45:39.450 --> 00:45:48.255
for a person. So, like, how do you got I mean, Steven, how do you think about that? Like, when you're talking about nourishing Lightning channels. Yeah. I mean, the on chain fee environment is that's going to be
480
00:45:48.635 --> 00:46:06.500
that's going to be a problem. And, you know, I'm looking forward to any kind of solutions people can come up up with. I think one would be, you know, some kind of solution for batch opening and batch, you know, batch opening channels would be really good. There's been a lot of exciting work with, like, covenants and, like, l enhance.
481
00:46:07.585 --> 00:46:09.985
But that's one of those things that, you know, that's why,
482
00:46:10.865 --> 00:46:21.619
I just try to keep up with all the research that's going on and, you know, let the gigabrains do their work. So No cost. Tell me tell me about this. Yeah. If you if you make it loudly Yeah.
483
00:46:23.555 --> 00:46:35.279
Think about the environment. I think it's, like, taking the treat training wheels off. Like, it's good. It's a good thing. Like, we need to kind of We're riding the fucking bike now. Yeah. It's like putting pressure on us to figure shit out. Are we wearing a helmet?
484
00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:37.200
No. No. No helmet.
485
00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:38.720
No helmet in Bitcoin.
486
00:46:39.339 --> 00:46:41.825
We'll go through riding the whip. Yeah.
487
00:46:42.285 --> 00:46:44.065
But but then to your point,
488
00:46:44.525 --> 00:46:49.985
like, in the long run, at least the current path we're on, there's that problem of, like, not everyone can own an UTXO.
489
00:46:50.540 --> 00:46:57.440
Right. Mhmm. So I think that's that's the biggest problem. Like, unless something else comes along, fixes that, like,
490
00:46:58.675 --> 00:46:59.975
I mean, we're talking about lightning,
491
00:47:00.275 --> 00:47:05.090
like, trying to be self sovereign with lightning. But if you you kinda text you text, so how are you gonna do that?
492
00:47:05.570 --> 00:47:17.734
I mean, I think this sort of elevates the conversation instead of just talking about to what are lightningos or lightningos for to what is the lightning network itself. What is the lightning network? Like what's it for, right? What was it for? What is it somehow
493
00:47:18.195 --> 00:47:24.230
turning into? Or what could it turn into that isn't like what we expected. Right? We expected
494
00:47:25.730 --> 00:47:26.710
instant settlement
495
00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:30.150
payments forever. That was like lightning in 2018.
496
00:47:31.145 --> 00:47:38.910
And now, you know, after talking to folks like my good friend, Nifty Nye and everything, it's like Fucking love Lisa. Yeah. I talk to her all the time. Like,
497
00:47:39.470 --> 00:47:46.849
I've learned so much from her. She's great. It's not Nifty Nae? Nifty Nae. And if not, I call her Lisa. I don't know. Tomato, tomato. Yeah. You know what I mean?
498
00:47:47.470 --> 00:47:48.130
But the,
499
00:47:51.565 --> 00:47:52.065
No.
500
00:47:53.085 --> 00:48:14.775
What is lightning network? I think I think we need to be prepared for the possibility that the light network is going to just be sort of like a like the way the Visa network is now where This is what I was saying. Yeah. Yeah. So instead of It's the interoperable payment protocol for custodians. Well, not not not not necessarily that. With the XOs. Not necessarily that. Just like let yeah. So the idea is it's a global
501
00:48:15.190 --> 00:48:22.089
payment network rail system. Right? Yeah. Okay. Custodians are involved. Financial institutions are involved. However Final decision.
502
00:48:22.445 --> 00:48:22.945
However,
503
00:48:23.405 --> 00:48:25.265
unlike the current system,
504
00:48:25.645 --> 00:48:29.745
you don't need to have a banking license to run a lightning node. Yeah. Right?
505
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:31.579
You can actually just Yeah.
506
00:48:32.200 --> 00:48:36.380
Yeah. That's what we have to defend. Honestly. Like defend the against the licensure.
507
00:48:36.839 --> 00:48:43.684
Like if it costs you 10,000,000 Sats in the future to run a Lightning node, and that's an exorbitant amount of money,
508
00:48:44.305 --> 00:48:46.165
that's fine. It's, like, 10,000,000
509
00:48:46.680 --> 00:48:51.420
debt. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's $10,000,000. It's just the gates are closing on this
510
00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:56.415
in a way. Fee rates go up, number go up, the amount of people that have UTXOs
511
00:48:56.715 --> 00:48:58.734
that are more than a1000000 go down.
512
00:48:59.355 --> 00:49:13.885
Okay? Like, I feel like if folks are even moderately interested in Lightning, I think Lightning could be a global payment rail system. They should start their nodes as soon as possible. Why? Just hang out on it. You know? It's been horrible to start a lightning note early.
513
00:49:14.825 --> 00:49:22.830
I've lost so much in SaaS. You've lost so much in SaaS. No offense. We bonded over how much sats you're like. But but but the difference is
514
00:49:23.130 --> 00:49:24.670
is you're very high time preference.
515
00:49:25.185 --> 00:49:25.765
Oh, hold
516
00:49:28.465 --> 00:49:45.455
on. No. I've learned by doing, so I have to try it. I have to try it, you know. No. I'm the same way. The good lessons are the expensive lessons. I've lost so many sets. It's not even We talk to you, but we're talking about individual people right now. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, why did starting a lightning note early doesn't help you?
517
00:49:45.994 --> 00:49:50.760
It helped well, it won't help you. I gotta no. No. Or, like, accumulating sats,
518
00:49:51.140 --> 00:50:06.315
stacking sats. No. Yeah. It did help you. But, like, having the sats in the first place helps. Starting the lightning this idea, like, we were sold by influencers, like or you would make a channel. It was like a generational channel. Yes. Now I'm told, like, I gotta close it for PTLCs.
519
00:50:06.810 --> 00:50:16.285
CS. Like, River's just gonna close it. Like, an engineer at River is just gonna decide when he wants to close my channel. I closed down one of my my big node. I'd had, like, 350 channels.
520
00:50:16.585 --> 00:50:22.685
Everyone's like, why are you doing this to me? It's like, I you know, I have a life, and I just need to close this. It's not run on voltage.
521
00:50:22.990 --> 00:50:29.329
I do not trust migrating the fucking node. Yeah. I'm gonna probably lose all my money if I migrate it. You saw what happened to XMRK.
522
00:50:30.085 --> 00:50:37.465
Like, the guy just, like, did, like, a he just, like, maybe he would just wasn't thinking, did, like, a couple commands. It could happen to the best of us,
523
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:57.740
and he lost it. So I was like, I'm just fucking oh, the fees are low. I'm closing all these channels. Sorry. Like, Ellen, UCLA, like, close all channels, send to, sweep. You know, I just fucking send all fucking to see more and more of that. Hold on. Is is opening of early landing node not worth anything, or is the mempool never gonna clear again? Because you can't have it both ways. No. It's both.
524
00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:04.540
It's just I don't know if I don't know if having a lightning channel early helps you that much unless you need it. Like, if you need lightning,
525
00:51:05.095 --> 00:51:05.755
use it.
526
00:51:06.055 --> 00:51:11.994
And I need lightning, so I use it. But but, like, but I don't think you get, like, 1st mover advantage
527
00:51:12.390 --> 00:51:13.210
opening a lightning
528
00:51:13.590 --> 00:51:19.130
like, opening a lightning note today. Like, I don't think now. But I think the thing that will happen historically because if
529
00:51:19.535 --> 00:51:25.955
if light if the lightning algorithm or whatever in the future is anything like Google, it will look back on on history,
530
00:51:26.655 --> 00:51:28.275
and it will just say, hey.
531
00:51:28.710 --> 00:51:35.369
Is that not possible? And are they never I thought I hope not. Yeah. But but we'll have this feature? No. I'm just saying, like,
532
00:51:36.150 --> 00:52:11.130
this is something possible in the future, I believe. It's possible. Crazy. Right? But if you open a channel early, like, when Like reputation they you I mean, you can check-in, like, Ambrose or Rem pulled out space or whatever, like, age of age of lightning channel. And I think, like Age of age. Right. That is, like, a real thing I check on notes. Just, like, oh, like, how long has this person, like, actually dealt with? This is where the global south is even more, like, or is, like, when you look at, like, the Google algorithm, how they determine who wins and who doesn't, anyone who does, like, black hat slash gray hat things, they get burned into the future, make good decisions now, you win in the future. So these low time preference behaviors,
533
00:52:11.555 --> 00:52:16.455
those people win. So when Nate's saying, like, start a node now by doing that, and if you have
534
00:52:17.075 --> 00:52:23.160
an approach where you find ways to earn, you can open a fat channel, go spend it, and then you have ways to earn it back.
535
00:52:23.780 --> 00:52:34.445
Sure. It's Yeah. I have an article called the low time preference routing mode. Look at that. I mean, another thing we haven't touched on is Yeah. I think you're wrong about that, Nate. What specifically, talk to me.
536
00:52:34.825 --> 00:52:37.885
I mean, I think, like, that, like, article does well to, like,
537
00:52:39.390 --> 00:52:42.290
virtue signal to the ride or dies. You know?
538
00:52:43.550 --> 00:52:45.490
You're pretty good at that. So
539
00:52:48.085 --> 00:52:48.585
I
540
00:52:49.685 --> 00:52:53.464
think I think if you're smart enough or or capable enough
541
00:52:53.845 --> 00:52:55.625
to Smart. Drive a car.
542
00:52:56.099 --> 00:52:58.599
Yeah. The Catan strategy. Yeah.
543
00:52:58.900 --> 00:53:02.715
Then you can open up a lightning channel, buy an Amazon gift card to get some inbound.
544
00:53:04.315 --> 00:53:10.975
Yeah. Like, if if you're a mother and you can give birth to a fucking human being Which is the hardest thing in the world. Like, you can definitely
545
00:53:11.355 --> 00:53:14.040
run a Lightning node. But, like, should you?
546
00:53:15.460 --> 00:53:31.200
Like, that's the question. So so my question is Yeah. Did you do that to earn rounding fees? Hell, no. Should you do that because You need to make payments and receive payments. But most importantly, receive payments. Because make payments if you're just making payments, if you're going down for your, like, El Salvador pilgrimage
547
00:53:31.740 --> 00:53:33.120
and you wanna buy your beer
548
00:53:33.500 --> 00:53:36.800
and you wanna take a video or, like, of you shopping at McDonald's,
549
00:53:37.414 --> 00:53:40.075
don't go to McDonald's, but, like, if you're shopping at McDonald's,
550
00:53:41.335 --> 00:53:51.590
like, just use Phoenix Wallet. Well, I think this gets into the split on the But if you wanna receive payments, you need to run a lightning note, period. Like, you have no choice. Even if there's a lightning note on the phone.
551
00:53:51.970 --> 00:53:59.984
This is the Well, no. No. Like, if you wanna receive them asynchronously. Like, if you wanna actually, like, receive them without being online. Yeah. But once once we have interoperability
552
00:54:00.525 --> 00:54:03.424
achieved, but for both Yeah. I mean, once we all have unicorns.
553
00:54:03.950 --> 00:54:04.450
Then
554
00:54:04.910 --> 00:54:25.550
then we can work on the async payments spec. Okay. We're not intended for a Bolt 12. And once we have the a pings async payment spec, then we'll be able to receive on the There's 100 and millions of people using Tether on Tron. We're talking about, like, oh, one day we'll have bolt 12, and we'll I'm I just don't wanna be a dick. But I No. No. I mean, yeah. It's just it's it's okay. It's your opinion, but it's a wrong opinion and it's okay.
555
00:54:26.890 --> 00:54:29.150
Because, you know, right now, Lightning DevKit,
556
00:54:29.530 --> 00:54:30.235
already has
557
00:54:31.755 --> 00:54:38.895
support for Vault 12. They're having to roll it out in phases. Mutiny, I believe there's PR up. They're kinda blocked by LDK at the moment.
558
00:54:39.550 --> 00:54:42.130
Pretty sure Eclair has it or at least Onion Messaging.
559
00:54:42.670 --> 00:54:46.610
You already got the LNDK project to add to LND, and it's already there for Corelenny.
560
00:54:47.035 --> 00:54:57.220
Dude, I think just the other day Yeah. But the LND doesn't have it. Right? There's an LNDK daemon that you can run alongside your NAND to add support for it. So Carl is working on it for them from the
561
00:54:58.000 --> 00:54:59.680
Yeah. Yeah. Just the other day,
562
00:55:00.560 --> 00:55:05.120
we actually set up, my buddy, Chad, and I, we worked on a project to name? At,
563
00:55:05.825 --> 00:55:07.365
his name literally is Chad.
564
00:55:07.984 --> 00:55:08.464
But,
565
00:55:08.945 --> 00:55:15.365
we, we actually set up a project to, add a, a Bolt 12 address support to Zeus.
566
00:55:15.890 --> 00:55:21.430
So we have something that looks like a Lightning address, but it's for Bolt 12. And it's we have a PR open to Zeus right now.
567
00:55:22.130 --> 00:55:30.785
So we have So what does that mean for me? What it means for you is that you can now have something that looks like a Lightning address and functions like a Lightning address.
568
00:55:31.460 --> 00:55:37.859
But you don't have to have that risk of what if the LNURL server, you know, sends,
569
00:55:38.180 --> 00:55:40.005
basically steals your money en route.
570
00:55:40.404 --> 00:55:41.464
It's more secure
571
00:55:41.765 --> 00:55:44.664
than lnurl. It's more secure than lightning address.
572
00:55:45.365 --> 00:55:46.984
And since it uses both 12,
573
00:55:47.980 --> 00:55:54.240
once we have more broader support for that in the industry, we'll then be able to support async payments. So Side note.
574
00:55:54.914 --> 00:55:59.335
Chad is Why are you side noting? Okay. That'd be hilarious. Okay. Because I have a koala.
575
00:56:00.755 --> 00:56:02.615
The koala's in the tree is outside.
576
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:03.700
After the show,
577
00:56:04.240 --> 00:56:05.059
go to zap.stream,
578
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:08.740
and you'll see Noster plays Pokemon, and that's Chad's thing.
579
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:20.370
Have you seen the Noster plays Pokemon thing on zap Stream? Does he play does he stream Pokemon games? No. It's legit just, like, for the last, like, month or something. It's just you have to, like, zap to, like,
580
00:56:20.750 --> 00:56:35.645
do an action in the game. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I guess. They're trying to beat the game as a community. It's like when Twitch Oh, yeah. Just for a sec. I'm just saying that was good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Koala was the dicks with lightning. Right? Was that Koala or no?
581
00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:38.220
I don't know. You're thinking of something. History.
582
00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:44.700
What's your place wasn't lightning koala? No. It it it is. It just Yeah. Where everyone just drew dicks and paved with lightning.
583
00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:48.155
No. I guess. Okay. We we got really hung up on that. Yeah.
584
00:56:49.495 --> 00:56:49.995
I
585
00:56:51.335 --> 00:56:58.599
mean, everyone was like, this is a revolution in finance, and it was just like people just drawing dicks and paying with them. I think that's how all good ideas start. Yeah.
586
00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:06.005
I'm not sure. You sidetracked us, but sorry. All 12. Let's go. Wait. Wait. That actually sounds really interesting.
587
00:57:06.704 --> 00:57:08.885
But that's not gonna is that gonna happen?
588
00:57:09.585 --> 00:57:18.270
What do you mean define happen? Like, all 12? Is it usable? What's the trade off? It's it's Yeah. So right now I don't believe you. Our our implementation right now works with, Corelightning,
589
00:57:19.095 --> 00:57:23.835
but we're also basing our work off of Matt Corallo's Bitcoin Improvement Proposal for this.
590
00:57:24.695 --> 00:57:25.435
So it's
591
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:29.620
it's an idea that's receiving a lot of discussion on GitHub at the moment.
592
00:57:30.640 --> 00:57:35.525
And, once we To know and let them in? Wow. He wouldn't be there. What else got 80s up there?
593
00:57:36.164 --> 00:57:53.610
Sorry. But, yeah, it's basically just like imagine basically, imagine like this. Right now So it looks like a lightning address to LND nodes, normal LND nodes. Right now, LND wouldn't be able to support it, but in the future, they will. I'm sure. Okay. So 80% of the network doesn't support it. Yeah. No. Hey. We just gotta fight When is Voltus gonna support something other than LND?
594
00:57:54.055 --> 00:57:59.275
Give us more demand. Okay. That's a good point. What do you mean more demand? We we
595
00:57:59.734 --> 00:58:01.810
frankly Support it. No Frankly
596
00:58:02.350 --> 00:58:09.010
speaking, we just don't get requests for anything else. Like, people don't ask for core lightning. I mean, I'm can we have core lightning?
597
00:58:09.474 --> 00:58:13.415
Okay. I'll I'll I'll submit a ticket. I'll send it to our team to review.
598
00:58:14.595 --> 00:58:16.454
I can send it to extra large ticket.
599
00:58:16.915 --> 00:58:28.095
Can we size this guy? I already like, it it's like a chicken and the egg thing. Right? I already told you. I'm only gonna run a lightning node through voltage. Sure. Voltage only supports L and D, so I use L and D.
600
00:58:28.395 --> 00:58:35.329
Mhmm. You know, it's chicken and egg. Be the change you wanna see in the world, Graham. Yeah. I I you got a point. I mean, I think that's valid. I think that,
601
00:58:36.210 --> 00:58:41.665
I think that it's something that we it's we want I think, like, it's, like, one of the things we want to do. I understand the value of it. I
602
00:58:52.450 --> 00:58:54.230
Tony and I are having a great conversation.
603
00:58:54.530 --> 00:58:57.829
I just want the freaks to know that weirdo robot is in the room.
604
00:58:58.369 --> 00:58:59.349
He can comment.
605
00:59:00.744 --> 00:59:05.885
He's choosing to comment via Zap stream. I appreciate but consider sending a Zap with your message next time.
606
00:59:07.819 --> 00:59:15.839
Well, that's a good idea. On top of that. But I I would love if Voltage supported multiple implementation. You want to be core and and, look, I love the Lightning Labs team.
607
00:59:16.415 --> 00:59:23.315
Right? But, like, the dream of Lightning to me was always supposed to be, like, oh, like, we have this multiple implementation thing. There's gonna be competition.
608
00:59:23.870 --> 00:59:30.610
And I'm a little bit disenfranchised at this point. Like, I just assume, like, what LND chooses is is the path we're gonna take.
609
00:59:31.444 --> 00:59:33.865
I don't think Tap Pass has a future, period.
610
00:59:34.244 --> 00:59:36.984
I know you guys probably can't comment on it.
611
00:59:37.525 --> 00:59:39.305
Are you discriminating against Async?
612
00:59:40.720 --> 00:59:47.115
Async is amazing. I recommend I recommended Phoenix last week, and it said people should use iCloud backups, and I got hate for it. So not so
613
00:59:48.315 --> 00:59:49.275
okay. No. I mean, I think
614
00:59:49.994 --> 01:00:10.665
I think you have a point. I think that it's something that, like, we definitely want to do. It's just a matter of, like, there's okay. There's there's a gigantic list of things to solve in lightning. Right? We just talked about a fraction of them. Yeah. That's all the problem. Yeah. We're trying to solve a lot of different problems. I think that that's one that's just one of the many that we just need to, like, kind of have as a prioritization. So I will take your feedback, and we will look at
615
01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:18.865
prioritizing it. There you go. Thank you for your support, weirdo robot. We really appreciate it. Those 69 sets, I'm doing any data point billing on that.
616
01:00:20.065 --> 01:00:44.760
Show me. Sure. Sure. I'm sorry. I'd be one of the Core Lightning customers too because, man, the pain the pain in the ass. In the Blackstream shirt. Yeah. I had to go. I'm not a Core Lightning Maxi, by the way, but right now, they have Lucas in the room. Yeah. But they have, they have they have the best, the best default twelve support right now, so that's why we used it for that. But, I would I would totally run it. Well, and, like, our our Flow 2.0 LSP runs on core Lightning. So, like, we we use it internally.
617
01:00:45.460 --> 01:00:49.320
And so it's something we wanna do. It's just the the ways of kind of operating
618
01:00:49.620 --> 01:00:52.205
that inside of voltage compared to LDs is very, very different.
619
01:00:52.845 --> 01:00:57.585
So it's just more work. So it's just like one of those things where it's like, there's a checkbox that'd be done yesterday, but, you know, we'll
620
01:00:58.605 --> 01:01:05.630
priorities, got engineering. We all this the entire team is in this room. We're not, as big as Blockstream or any of those other companies.
621
01:01:05.950 --> 01:01:06.450
So
622
01:01:08.644 --> 01:01:09.704
we'll add it to the list.
623
01:01:10.085 --> 01:01:14.025
I mean, I would say I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but I a 100% meant to put you on the spot.
624
01:01:14.404 --> 01:01:15.200
Yeah. That's fine.
625
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:17.940
Well, I love Core Lightning, but it doesn't
626
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:22.020
like, it just needs a different What about LBK or async?
627
01:01:22.615 --> 01:01:23.915
Oh, I Or or
628
01:01:24.695 --> 01:01:29.595
or or, Electrum's Python implementation? Like, why don't you guys support Electrum's Python implementation?
629
01:01:33.970 --> 01:01:35.589
Yeah. We were trying to be inclusive.
630
01:01:37.569 --> 01:01:38.789
Diversity situation.
631
01:01:39.895 --> 01:01:50.420
Like, l l d k is, interesting to, like, Well, l d k is not a node. Yeah. I guess it's not a node. You have to, like, build a node with it. If we build a node, it's But you could use I guess, support mutiny node.
632
01:01:51.200 --> 01:01:56.820
I mean, we've trapped our engaged engine. Yeah. We I mean, we've we've, like, LDK node. Is an LDK node a node?
633
01:01:57.305 --> 01:02:08.520
Sort of. Kind of. Yeah. But, like, also, mutiny has their mutiny node. Right? Yes. So Mutiny built a mutiny node using LDK. Right? It runs on a phone. It runs on a browser. It runs whatever.
634
01:02:08.980 --> 01:02:13.480
If Voltage built a Voltage branded node Yeah. It would be with LDK.
635
01:02:13.825 --> 01:02:22.725
Right. Like, it's just like a blend. It's a toolkit for building a node. 2 weeks. Yeah. It's a VM. No. I'm cool with that. I know that. Well, it's like also You heard it here first,
636
01:02:23.230 --> 01:02:27.170
holds us too because they want the same APIs. Like Who is the market?
637
01:02:27.550 --> 01:02:29.410
The business is building lightning.
638
01:02:30.484 --> 01:02:37.625
Let's go. Because Let's have it happen. Because most people, like, don't it's it's one of those funny things where we're super proud of
639
01:02:38.060 --> 01:02:46.240
the the UI redesign we do. It makes it more intuitive to use the product. But most customers don't come to our website. Right. They have their l and d node running,
640
01:02:46.725 --> 01:02:51.945
and they have their lnd tooling already built. Like, it's already built into their application.
641
01:02:52.965 --> 01:03:03.099
They did it. It's it's there, and it just ran it just runs, and they never come to voltage dot cloud. It's and it's fine. Like, that's great. Like, we're we're just there to be infrastructure.
642
01:03:04.205 --> 01:03:06.305
So the people that want to
643
01:03:06.925 --> 01:03:07.425
build,
644
01:03:08.445 --> 01:03:10.625
you know, against our personal
645
01:03:11.485 --> 01:03:11.985
API
646
01:03:12.540 --> 01:03:20.560
that we developed for our node, like, that's not, like, a big market pull. The market's been pulling us to to do deliver the l and d version.
647
01:03:21.375 --> 01:03:26.275
Something that's compatible with that. Look. I'm fine with that. I only brought it up because Steven brought it up. Yeah.
648
01:03:26.975 --> 01:03:32.280
Like, if if He'll he'll take the fall. If if if if the future is just l and d,
649
01:03:32.980 --> 01:03:52.180
then let's just pretend the future is l and d. And if the future isn't just l and d Yeah. Then let's build the future we wanna see. I think the mobile story I think the mobile story is definitely one around LDK, in my opinion. Oh, no. I think the multi story is one around async. Like, Phoenix is dope as fuck. Like, I I built an implementation for a single app.
650
01:03:52.480 --> 01:04:02.295
Boom. You did a great job at it. I like Phoenix. I I agree with you, but it's not that's not like it's not like extensible. Like, you I technically, maybe we could go build, like, a mobile app with Async's
651
01:04:02.595 --> 01:04:07.230
technology and stuff. They've they've, like, done so much of, like, kind of internal
652
01:04:07.530 --> 01:04:21.730
development between, like, their node. Yeah. And so it's like and that that's where to see this point, LDK is very much of, like, if I'm gonna go build my own mobile wallet or whatever Right. LDK is the only That's the only way to do it. You can do it with LND, but you know. Right. Like, I know like, I
653
01:04:22.270 --> 01:04:25.250
know, like, LDK developers that just use Phoenix.
654
01:04:25.950 --> 01:04:49.085
It just works really well. Yeah. Sure. Oh, it does. Yeah. Like, I'm not saying, like, they made it to be the the the reason they found success is because they didn't make it to be extensible or, like, usable by other people. Right. Like, they just made it for themselves. They just, like Yeah. They created a full vertical shop. Mhmm. Yeah. Right? Like, they have their own LSP. They have their own I mean, making stuff that you wanna use yourself is the best way to make stuff. Yeah.
655
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:58.020
I like the awkward silence is really good. Y'all see that game much better? A lot of people
656
01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:06.975
in podcast apps use trim silence, so, like, it doesn't matter. Like, so we can just enjoy the silence. Oh. It's all just enjoy the silence for a second.
657
01:05:09.560 --> 01:05:14.300
Imagine yourself going to your safe place. You can't enjoy the silence. You
658
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:16.060
can't enjoy the silence.
659
01:05:17.985 --> 01:05:20.725
I mean, what do you, like, what are you guys excited about with BitHole?
660
01:05:21.025 --> 01:05:21.685
The Harbin.
661
01:05:22.305 --> 01:05:22.805
Why?
662
01:05:23.345 --> 01:05:25.650
Wait, how do you pronounce it? Halving. Halving.
663
01:05:26.510 --> 01:05:29.730
It's a halving. The halving. Halving. Yeah. Halving. Halving. Yeah. Yeah.
664
01:05:30.030 --> 01:05:32.770
I think it's just a it's a huge major It's definitely not the halving.
665
01:05:33.305 --> 01:05:34.445
I don't like the havening
666
01:05:34.825 --> 01:05:39.645
as a term. I thought I've ever used a havening. It's a we shouldn't even give that word attention. Continue. Yeah.
667
01:05:40.105 --> 01:05:41.085
Thank you, Bobby.
668
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:49.059
I think it's just a it's a huge milestone, and I'm very, pleased to be alive around that time and into Bitcoin. But they always happen.
669
01:05:49.735 --> 01:06:06.355
Yeah. I think they would have to happen once. Right? Yeah. Very true. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'm This one tends to be very bad. All the price that It's It's it's happening. It's like your what? 6,000? No. It's the 3rd. I deal stop? I know there has it at 6. Listen. My 12.
670
01:06:07.555 --> 01:06:11.015
I didn't when you set it up. And you haven't.
671
01:06:11.875 --> 01:06:13.575
No. I mean, I think I think it's like
672
01:06:14.180 --> 01:06:29.215
have havings are scarce just like Bitcoin. So there's only, you know, some I think what's interesting about this havin' is usually at this point in the havin'ing, it's like mining death spiral FUD. Yeah. Like, it should be people saying Yeah. The miners are all gonna turn off. We're usually dumping.
673
01:06:30.234 --> 01:06:31.295
Right? Mhmm.
674
01:06:32.070 --> 01:06:39.690
That's a good point. And it's like Bitcoin is going to die. Like, we are gonna hit the halving, and Bitcoin's gonna die. And then, like, I'm, like, arguing with, like, Joe Weisenthal.
675
01:06:39.990 --> 01:06:49.020
Like, I'm the halving is not priced in, and, like, we have, like, all this back and forth, like, bullshit. She's But, like, right now, like, we're, like, sitting near all time highs. We had an all time high this week.
676
01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:55.420
Probably the best all time high we've ever had because we just immediately dumped afterwards, which is beautiful. On me.
677
01:06:56.060 --> 01:07:01.375
Did we hit over the week? Yeah. Like, I think it was after Yeah. Technically, the old time high already happened.
678
01:07:01.915 --> 01:07:04.575
I'm absolved of all my sins from last cycle because
679
01:07:05.595 --> 01:07:07.220
you technically could have sold
680
01:07:08.180 --> 01:07:09.560
higher at any point
681
01:07:10.180 --> 01:07:16.359
in those 20 seconds. I think they print as much money in the money supply in the last, what, 2 years?
682
01:07:16.905 --> 01:07:19.325
Well, technically, it's not really Yeah. Technically
683
01:07:19.625 --> 01:07:20.125
technically,
684
01:07:20.425 --> 01:07:21.485
the like, 70.5
685
01:07:21.785 --> 01:07:27.830
No. No. If you adjust by the bullshit inflation, it's 78 k. If you adjust by the real inflation, it's probably, like, $1,000
686
01:07:28.210 --> 01:07:31.030
it looks like I don't I mean, that's a $100,000
687
01:07:31.570 --> 01:07:32.630
is really in debt.
688
01:07:32.935 --> 01:07:33.755
Not a $1,000.
689
01:07:34.055 --> 01:07:42.715
Yeah. You're probably right. I will I'll go with that. Uh-oh. No all time high till 100 k. That's fine. No all time high. I mean, yellow is still doing don't stop believing till a 100 k.
690
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:56.265
I can't believe you're speaking. But I I still already think 100k is, like, nothing. It's fine. You're cool with a 100k? No. I mean, like, I mean, like, that's it. You're just gonna be chilling. You're gonna be chilling a 100 k? Like, you're not gonna be losing your shit, like, tits out?
691
01:07:56.725 --> 01:07:57.545
Have I been?
692
01:07:58.040 --> 01:07:59.660
I've been at a 100 k, though.
693
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:04.700
Okay. But Yenno's doing the don't stop believing sort of, the Jones. Every day.
694
01:08:05.125 --> 01:08:06.825
Every day. Like, it's been like
695
01:08:07.845 --> 01:08:09.785
3 years. It's been like 3 years.
696
01:08:10.725 --> 01:08:15.860
For 3 years, every day, he does the spaces on Twitter where he does Don't Stop Believing.
697
01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:26.065
And then He plays it and then shows it. Sings to it. Right? He he, like, makes an art of it. That's, like, such a good still does it. I don't know if he still does it. I don't know who his guy is. Do he have a job?
698
01:08:26.445 --> 01:08:56.460
No. He's a Yeah. He does. He does Don't Stop Believing every day. And his job. It's such an interesting job. It's for the community. It's his contribution. They never they never told me in school that that could be my job when I grew up. The government lied to me. Why you asking? The government lied to me. Why you asking? Yeah. They can go to school and everything. Yeah. Okay. So the having I mean, I'm pretty I'm I'm excited about the having. I say the halving as well because I think this for me personally, it's my first true This is your first halving? Oh, your first bull run. My first bull run. And when did you get into Bitcoin? Just before
699
01:08:57.385 --> 01:08:59.324
the this bear market.
700
01:08:59.625 --> 01:09:04.450
So my sweetest year. 22 21? Holy shit. Yeah. Oh, this is fun.
701
01:09:05.330 --> 01:09:18.055
Oh, yeah. And then my brother's freaking go. Orange Pilby was only just before that. He's over at Swan, and he only I think he was a couple months before that, maybe 6 to 8 months. So this is, yeah, the full the first What do your parents think about Bitcoin?
702
01:09:19.555 --> 01:09:31.955
Well, my mom's happy because we me and my brother continuously donating to her. So she's just watching her value go up and up and up every time she looks into the app. But apart from that, she's a Does she holds Bitcoin? On Blink Wallet. Yeah. We moved. Oh, cool. Yeah.
703
01:09:32.495 --> 01:09:36.980
I like the Glide team. I think they're very practical. Yeah. Very cool team. Yeah.
704
01:09:38.340 --> 01:09:40.760
So what is everyone else excited about with Bitcoin?
705
01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:46.520
Are you guys excited about anything? Or everyone just seemed really bored when asked successful?
706
01:09:47.065 --> 01:09:50.685
You just sat The the no. The dark gray just stopped. I knew that symbol.
707
01:09:51.065 --> 01:09:53.085
Wait. So I still need a symbol. That's
708
01:09:53.625 --> 01:09:54.765
what you're talking about.
709
01:09:56.710 --> 01:10:04.810
Well, it's actually the standard. Why do they need a symbol? When you when you zap on Nasr, it's just like, oh, I sent you 42. I'm just observing. No. I sent you I sent you 200
710
01:10:05.375 --> 01:10:17.820
of of the the monetary unit of the world. Yeah. Like, I don't need a fucking symbol for it. Just because Coinbase and other apps did a bad job displaying it early on doesn't mean sats are bad. Did did Coinbase ever display sats?
711
01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:22.035
Did Coinbase ever display sats? No. But they're, like, 0.000007
712
01:10:23.135 --> 01:10:49.460
blah blah blah. They still don't have lightning. He's he's he's saying because Coinbase screwed up the way that they display your Bitcoin balance doesn't mean that we need to, like, invent a symbol to, like Yeah. Just because It's just called Coinbase's problem. People to rethink one way, it doesn't mean that it needs to be changed. Like, that needs to be changed. The display simply needs to be changed. We don't need to re recreate it. Like, that's silly. Designer. Because you're right. And also, like, 21 stats. It's like someone gets You just get 21.
713
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.005
Yeah. And so it's like not even I just got 21 units of freedom.
714
01:10:53.865 --> 01:11:09.925
Well, I agree. I agree. I think it's something like, we should talk to Kieran and be like, why does it say 69 sats? It should just say 69. No. But, I mean, I think sats is fine because that's not a symbol. That's just a word. It's zapped 69. And also say you got 69. And also, like, I People out of the room. This might be controversial.
715
01:11:10.385 --> 01:11:16.190
This might be controversial, but it's Stay Humble Sax Ads ads is not Stay Humble Sax Satoshis. Like, I don't like satoshis. I like sans.
716
01:11:16.830 --> 01:11:21.489
Because I think satoshis is, like, weird and, like, sad. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
717
01:11:22.030 --> 01:11:24.585
You're like you're like you're like being an idol.
718
01:11:25.065 --> 01:11:28.045
You think you're gonna change that to to a stack of Millisecets?
719
01:11:28.905 --> 01:11:29.405
No.
720
01:11:30.185 --> 01:11:38.530
No. Come on. Millisecets. Millisecet or a Bitcoin. Because at that point at that point, I'm just gonna be, like, on my ranch with my goats and other stuff, and I'm just not gonna
721
01:11:39.070 --> 01:11:50.010
like, someone else can do that next meme. Back to being excited about what's coming in Bitcoin, the thing that's exciting about Bitcoin is giving people from different walks of life the ability to earn it.
722
01:11:50.570 --> 01:11:56.030
That's what's really exciting, having ways in which people can earn it. But that's what I think is, like, it's it stops being early,
723
01:11:56.409 --> 01:12:05.315
is when the majority of people aren't buying Bitcoin. They're earning Bitcoin. That's the that's the turning to what Marty is talking about. Like, hey. If you're a designer, come to Bitcoin.
724
01:12:05.775 --> 01:12:14.570
It's like, I love Wavelet. Everyone who, like, is Designers make no money in Bitcoin. Yeah. They don't. Yeah. But either way, like, you're gonna Wavelet get
725
01:12:15.275 --> 01:12:26.560
started, but a lot of people that are, like, super psyched for either, it's like, oh Wave like is dope. Yeah. They're like, don't use Wave like. I'm like, I love Wave like. But the thing is is Well, you're an artist on Wave like. Yeah. We need the ability for people to come in easily. Can you sing for us? No.
726
01:12:28.060 --> 01:12:29.120
No. Not right now.
727
01:12:30.595 --> 01:12:47.160
We need the ability for people to come in easily. And the thing I'm really excited about is, like, on TikTok and all these little platforms, keep people like passive income, blah blah blah. Everyone's obsessed with money without doing work. Right. And when it comes to That's the problem with Bitcoin that requires work. Yeah. The thing about business is, like, your website's your 24
728
01:12:47.595 --> 01:13:04.240
7 salesman. So when it comes to, like, Bitcoin and lightning, you have the ability to create tons of passive income streams. You're a good example of this, because I open fucking Prime on every tweet or every post you have, whatever note. It's like 2,000 sats. And I'm just like, you can just say things past me. But I spent so much money on Nostra. Like, I lose money. You spend that money.
729
01:13:04.860 --> 01:13:12.005
You know, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. But for the audience listening. I think it's I I GM. Have you ever seen, like, the,
730
01:13:12.465 --> 01:13:31.705
like, the always sunny, like, patty bucks? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's something I'm reading on Noster. Like, if I give them the patty bucks, then they need the patty bucks to see. Tracks how much you give, how much you give. How much you give. How much is the thieves? How much is this working? It's very, transparent. But I think the thing, like, people need to understand, especially younger folks who are obsessed with this idea of passive income who, like, wanna do less is
731
01:13:32.119 --> 01:13:44.215
everyone is very creative in the young generation, and the thing they need to understand are the avenues and ways in which you can make money by leveraging Bitcoin and Lightning because you could be on Primal, you could be on Stacker News, you could be on,
732
01:13:44.835 --> 01:14:05.255
all these other tools. You could run a node, whatever. You could run an online shop. You could, like, you could avoid fees like being on Etsy. And that that's the thing that's important for the next generation is how do you earn money when you're not actively doing work, but the work you put in, like, pays itself forward into the future? And that's what's exciting about Bitcoin, and that's what's cool about the tooling when it comes to, quote, unquote, design, like Marty says,
733
01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:19.545
is designers coming to Bitcoin and making interfaces easier to interact with. It makes it makes the next generation's job easier to adopt it. And I think that's one thing, like, when Tony talks about the 2 Lightning Networks as the b to b one and then, like, the one for the norm user, the average user,
734
01:14:20.140 --> 01:14:31.844
is the more average users we have on, the better we can support and supplement and run that network. And I'll shut up because I think that's, like, a big topic. But that's what's really exciting is the average person being able to use it.
735
01:14:32.225 --> 01:14:34.804
Mhmm. Yeah. I think more exciting,
736
01:14:36.870 --> 01:14:40.810
the the creative kids that wanna, like, be creative and get paid for that, that's
737
01:14:41.510 --> 01:14:43.605
artists, and that's awesome. Yay them.
738
01:14:44.005 --> 01:14:53.410
But, like, you also tweet a lot about, like, HVAC technicians. Like, let's do real fucking work and get create real money for real work.
739
01:14:53.790 --> 01:15:05.074
And I think that's much more exciting than, like, TikTok videos getting sad streamed at them. 1000%. And, like, Chris Hoffman, one of the guys who's, like, a HVAC dude, he wants to not sell his company to private equity,
740
01:15:05.455 --> 01:15:22.635
and he wants to build a company, and he inherited it from his father. I'm gonna tag him on this now that we're talking about it. But it's like someone was like a Bunkie Life, a Bitcoiner who, like, runs a company. He's doing well in Canada. He said, you know, 1% Bitcoin, 99% cash beats the s and p and this guy sold $11,000,000
741
01:15:23.175 --> 01:15:24.875
worth of s and p stock to
742
01:15:25.230 --> 01:15:42.775
pay, some floating debt in real estate. And he was like, why don't you do Bitcoin? And I was like, well, he's a steward to his dad's company that was passed down, him and his brother own. There's a board of people which he's openly discussed, and it's just like it's the hurdle of education. And it again comes back to in Bitcoin, there's a tremendous amount of education that's required.
743
01:15:43.140 --> 01:15:54.255
And Liam and I were talking about in front of Bitcoin Park, like, why do people not get it? And it's just Why are our eyes so open? And it's so vaguely obvious to us. But then you speak to friends and family, and you can show them the same
744
01:15:54.795 --> 01:15:57.295
facts, the same things that are happening, the same blatant
745
01:15:57.835 --> 01:15:58.815
miss misrepresentation
746
01:16:00.235 --> 01:16:03.990
that's happening, but yet they still don't get it and it's like a weak bee.
747
01:16:04.410 --> 01:16:09.010
Syndrome. Yeah. Like, where how how do you clear that? They have to admit that they fucked up
748
01:16:09.735 --> 01:16:12.875
up until that point. Why is there one micro strategy?
749
01:16:13.494 --> 01:16:45.090
Like, why isn't this HVAC company another micro strategy? So to my point Taylor publishes the playbook. Taylor can go fuck himself. Right. But but but it publishes the playbook. And, like, every company with cash flows could be there. At least every big company is that they're they're a leader to a group. They have a board of directors. If they just go on a a whim like, Sailor's interesting. Super Mike aren't even a special situation. Why can't everybody be Michael Sailor? Well, Michael Sailor said, everyone read this, and we'll come back and talk. Kinda like what we discussed earlier with the Bezos HR thing. Now let's have an intelligent conversation.
750
01:16:45.565 --> 01:16:58.050
Don't show up and read it. Now you can talk about it, and we can challenge each other and have this, kinda like what Ray Dalio talks about, like, this meritocracy of openness, and we can challenge ideas. I don't think a lot of people do that. Nobody read it. Radical Candle.
751
01:16:58.350 --> 01:16:59.410
Right. Yeah.
752
01:17:00.110 --> 01:17:04.355
No. But, like, Michael Siller has, like, he has, like, an infinite debt spigot,
753
01:17:04.735 --> 01:17:10.195
and he has like, he deserves some he I I was being provocative. Like, he deserves credit
754
01:17:12.310 --> 01:17:13.210
in that
755
01:17:13.990 --> 01:17:14.970
thanks. Yeah.
756
01:17:15.990 --> 01:17:18.330
Thank thank you, Jesse Filipim. Thank you. Big big
757
01:17:20.365 --> 01:17:26.305
I didn't know you I didn't know you could post memes directly in So I just didn't see the meme at all. More viewers
758
01:17:26.810 --> 01:17:38.505
or listeners post memes, please. Do I mean but include zaps with them. This is the that's the humble value for value it's the humble value for value podcast. We do not have sponsors.
759
01:17:39.045 --> 01:17:40.265
We do not have ads.
760
01:17:40.804 --> 01:17:42.585
We're funded purely by the audience.
761
01:17:44.340 --> 01:17:49.640
So, like, build Bobby's vision and send me sats for my TikTok videos.
762
01:17:52.555 --> 01:17:59.860
You don't make sats on TikTok, though. That's the thing. It's not about TikTok. I never mentioned TikTok. It's about You did actually say TikTok, like, 3 times. What is TikTok?
763
01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:09.015
Okay. Well, you clearly don't earn Sats on there, but that's where the kids are because they're trying to rely on all these advertisements. Yeah. We got the kids. I know your audience.
764
01:18:09.955 --> 01:19:10.980
We got value for value, which Adam Curry is solving, where you don't need to, like Adam Curry hasn't solved it. Like, it's not perfect, but the whole point is Me and him run, like, the podcasting 2.0 charts. Like, we still make no money. Like, McCormick makes, like, 250 k a month on his fucking ads. And this is why we need young people to come in and do things. It's like dollars. If you can convert it to Bitcoin. I think a lot of these things intersect because Cathy Wood talks about on the podcast with Rod, I heard she's a shit coiner. Right. I don't care if she is. Like, let's let's be deliberate moving forward. But if she said, there's more people building on Replit than there are, like, engineering jobs and jobs available in America. So there's people out there seeking to do something. They want to learn. So what we need to do as educators is be very deliberate in terms of telling people about opportunity. Because if people knew the opportunity to build, and everyone who's seeking opportunity to build with these better skill sets know, if I build this, it creates an opportunity for me and everyone else to earn more. It brings more people to Bitcoin.
765
01:19:11.440 --> 01:19:17.699
But we're gonna we're gonna interrupt each other and make memes and be silly, but these are, like, very important topics that are going to, like,
766
01:19:18.245 --> 01:19:27.550
change the world. And it's, like, giving people the the clarity and the path they need to take. Because, yeah, TikTok's about to be banned in America. I don't know if y'all saw that post today, but, like, America's trying to No.
767
01:19:27.930 --> 01:19:28.750
Fuck you.
768
01:19:29.130 --> 01:19:34.375
Okay. TikTok like, if you're in a banned TikTok, you should ban Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and all the others. Oh,
769
01:19:34.775 --> 01:19:43.515
They're not owned by the CCP. So oh, so they're only owned by the NSA. So, like Right. Oh, so all of a sudden, it merges against one social media that's owned by China.
770
01:19:44.060 --> 01:19:49.680
It's like they they finally get a social media that's not USA owned, and, like, now we're against it.
771
01:19:50.995 --> 01:19:55.095
No. I think the CCP is especially not aligned with America.
772
01:19:55.635 --> 01:19:57.415
I think I mean, they really are.
773
01:19:59.130 --> 01:19:59.630
Well,
774
01:20:00.090 --> 01:20:01.710
the current administration aside,
775
01:20:02.489 --> 01:20:12.175
like, yeah. I think if, like, there was a French one, that's that's fine. Oh, we're cool with the French. The French social media the French are never gonna have a social media competitor because they sleep all day.
776
01:20:13.675 --> 01:20:15.455
That was nice. Totally. Right.
777
01:20:16.155 --> 01:20:17.375
Fucking French.
778
01:20:21.480 --> 01:20:33.094
I don't know. I like, the whole, like, TikTok, like, let's ban TikTok thing, like, it's it, like, pulls away the curtain of, like, the man behind the the man behind the curtain, which I know. I I think I fucked up the metaphor, but,
779
01:20:34.170 --> 01:20:35.790
maybe. But there's, like, all this, like,
780
01:20:36.250 --> 01:20:39.790
Google, like, doing the same thing. Media social media is
781
01:20:40.330 --> 01:20:41.550
designed for control.
782
01:20:42.574 --> 01:20:44.114
Right? It is it is
783
01:20:44.415 --> 01:20:53.219
it is the single biggest addiction facing our country today. Everyone will talk about opiates. Oh, sure. You know, opiates is a a 1000000 yearly active users.
784
01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:55.780
Social media is 8,000,000,000,
785
01:20:56.239 --> 01:20:58.100
5 no. Like, 5,000,000,000, 6,000,000,000
786
01:20:59.165 --> 01:21:03.025
daily active users. Like, people are addicted. Scroll, scroll, scroll,
787
01:21:03.405 --> 01:21:03.905
repost,
788
01:21:04.525 --> 01:21:18.835
like, like Right. What's exciting about Bitcoin? It changes the incentives on how we interact with the Internet. Because even right now, when it comes to AI, SEO, marketing, it's like, there's this debate of is is AI content gonna run the Internet or,
789
01:21:19.295 --> 01:21:21.715
like and and the bigger problem is, like, AI
790
01:21:22.100 --> 01:21:30.840
content eventually won't be able to be crawled or scrubbed by Google to identify it because it will become more like us. Because people are like, can I upload myself to AI? And it it would be natural.
791
01:21:31.385 --> 01:21:32.665
Right. So it's it's like
792
01:21:33.305 --> 01:21:37.005
dream. It's gonna come down, like I think Max Webster has a really
793
01:21:37.705 --> 01:21:48.545
good point of, like, the whole value transfer. But it's like, you know, how do you do it and all this stuff. But it's Okay. It's going to come down to, like, a Reddit upvote system in the most simple form. Like, people are gonna have the ability to do that, and that's
794
01:21:49.025 --> 01:21:54.005
that's gonna be key, I think. Kim, we keep talking over you. Apparently, this guy thinks so too.
795
01:21:54.864 --> 01:22:04.010
What do you what do you have to say? Yeah. Why can't we hear ladies slash women speak here? The only the only reason we're in this room is because of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
796
01:22:13.270 --> 01:22:16.890
Everybody who has anything to offer the world should definitely
797
01:22:17.430 --> 01:22:27.375
run a lightning node to be able to send or receive payments, even if you don't think anybody's ever gonna pay you in Bitcoin. Every HVAC guy should have a lightning node running a Oh, why? Because
798
01:22:28.074 --> 01:22:29.935
we all talk about, oh, like,
799
01:22:30.690 --> 01:22:52.770
you know, circular economies, and we want to grow this and why aren't people using it? Well, they're never going to use it if we don't start putting it out there, right? Like Doctor. Fromo. Do you think anybody in Ashland City is going to his car wash and paying with Bitcoin? No. No, but it's there for them. And he's running the node, and he's it's sitting there. He's running his voltage node. He's being the change he wants to see in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
800
01:22:53.470 --> 01:23:00.755
You wanna be the change you want. Don't say it to your wife. It is a mindshare thing. You're right. Right. It's my superpower.
801
01:23:01.775 --> 01:23:23.790
To a wife. We have to change that mentality of, like, why would I run a lightning node? That's stupid. I don't have anything. Okay. Well, then nobody's ever gonna fucking use it. Well It's top of the funnel. It. Yeah. You you I run a node. Hey. Pay me in Bitcoin. Oh, if you pay me in Bitcoin, I'll I'll give you a 2 or 3% discount. Like, it's top of the funnel. Like, it no. It No. I agree with you. It's just I would go the other way. Do a price increase in dollars.
802
01:23:24.250 --> 01:23:25.550
Sure. Yeah.
803
01:23:26.250 --> 01:23:28.349
You don't wanna ostracize the 98%.
804
01:23:28.650 --> 01:23:31.150
You wanna incent Yeah. It costs more in dollars.
805
01:23:31.475 --> 01:23:31.975
We
806
01:23:33.155 --> 01:23:39.895
we still beat you get this kind of Bitcoin. Yeah. Right. You just you just shifted it out of pocket. We're just framing. That's the reason HVAC people don't take us seriously.
807
01:23:40.750 --> 01:23:45.170
Well, when are we gonna tell you how's Bitcoin users? I I think HVAC people do.
808
01:23:45.710 --> 01:24:14.675
We have, I mean, we have plumbers. We have HVAC people. That's the cool part about Bitcoin. Yeah. Because, like, we have people of all walks of life already. I think the, like, the individual, like, the very Stop stop trying to orange pill people. They will come when they need it. They'll come when they figure it out. Like, we don't have to. You don't have to, but if it's not sitting there ready for them to use or if we're not orange peeling, like, they'll come to it. But if it's not sitting there ready for them to use, if doctor Fromo takes his voltage stone down, has no way of off No one no one is gonna
809
01:24:15.160 --> 01:24:17.340
no one is gonna decide that they're gonna
810
01:24:17.800 --> 01:24:26.495
use Bitcoin based on whether or not their local car wash accepts Bitcoin. Not what I'm saying, but it's there. So when they're ready, he doesn't have to scramble and come up with, like,
811
01:24:26.875 --> 01:24:31.615
oh, oh, and the stupid fee thing. Whatever. He's got his channels. He's got everything there. It's
812
01:24:32.830 --> 01:24:39.970
that I It's a low time service. You wanna see. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Change you wanna see in the world, Kim. That's true. Have you considered this?
813
01:24:42.465 --> 01:24:47.525
What else is other folks excited about? Like, with Bitcoin, do they? Earning. I like earning. Earning's big.
814
01:24:48.360 --> 01:24:48.860
Yeah.
815
01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:58.135
Working for Blink to earn Bitcoin. It's pretty cool. You're working for Blink? Just a couple of bits. Yeah. Design. Couple of bits you worked for? Is that in time period?
816
01:24:59.315 --> 01:25:01.975
No. A couple of bits of work. Sorry. What is it? Small
817
01:25:03.800 --> 01:25:07.020
Is that an English thing? Like, you get a 1,000 sad. It's
818
01:25:08.199 --> 01:25:13.020
cool early. It's better earning in Bitcoin. Yeah. It feels good. It's quick. It's seamless.
819
01:25:15.435 --> 01:25:30.565
What is is anyone else excited about anything? You guys just, like, all just, like, 9 to 5 You're 2 voltage. We all hate Bitcoin. We just, like, do it because it pays the bills. Just like this doesn't help 540 here. Now you're, like, I'm 40 minutes past the clock.
820
01:25:30.865 --> 01:25:35.205
This doesn't help the protocol, but we just, ten x the size of ATL BitLab.
821
01:25:35.905 --> 01:25:42.110
Oh, that's fucking good. Yeah. So we're now That helps the protocol. Huge. Yeah. So, yeah, we have we've got Like, from, like, 2 to 20?
822
01:25:42.730 --> 01:25:46.110
No. Well, we already had about 12. Full footage. We yeah. Like, square footage.
823
01:25:46.489 --> 01:25:56.125
Oh, shit. Like, land like, actual Yeah. We're we're in our own, like, big space now. Oh, okay. We've we don't even have enough desks yet to fill the space. Stay humble, Steven.
824
01:25:57.900 --> 01:26:10.525
Making people stand to work and hold their laptop. Yeah. Yeah. No. They could do that. That would work. But yeah. So, I mean, we're excited about it because now we can start. You know? We just got more room for bigger Atlanta sneaky has a very strong Bitcoin community.
825
01:26:11.065 --> 01:26:22.420
We no. You guys have, like, the Rose Bowl, like, back in, like, 20 15 or whatever? Which I don't remember. Wasn't it the didn't we have the actual Super Bowl at one point? No. But it was the Bitcoin Bowl. It wasn't the Rose Bowl. Oh, that Cash App thing that
826
01:26:22.720 --> 01:26:31.875
Cash App thing or whatever? Yes. There's the best Like, the basketball Cash App thing, you may have? No. No. There was the fucking Bitcoin Bowl. BitPay paid for it before they went shit for it.
827
01:26:32.620 --> 01:26:35.920
What? Called the Google. Yeah. Yeah. It was called the Bitcoin Bull.
828
01:26:36.620 --> 01:26:39.040
We had that. It was, like, 2014 in Atlanta.
829
01:26:48.470 --> 01:26:59.325
Like, prospective investor dinner for 10:31 in Atlanta, and there's, like, all these, like, random BitCorners that popped up for it. Yeah. I mean, we've we've got a there's a meet up, at least one meet up every week, and so there's always,
830
01:26:59.885 --> 01:27:11.570
there's always something going on Bitcoin wise. And now now the thing that's really cool is just that, there's people who regularly come in to, like, work at BitLab. And so because we got people from a variety of different Bitcoin companies like,
831
01:27:12.475 --> 01:27:23.250
like FETI and, you know, Voltage, obviously. What do you think about Ecash? Are we excited about Ecash? Because I don't know. I think it's all Ecash. I was holding my tongue much. Let's start the spicy e cash conversations.
832
01:27:23.870 --> 01:27:27.250
What's spicy about e cash? It's the future You know We are debating it.
833
01:27:28.030 --> 01:27:36.275
I'm I have no problems with eCash. You idiot. It sounds like How do I? Yo. Robots will be paid with me out in a in a
834
01:27:36.610 --> 01:27:58.710
chat here. Robots will be paid with eCash, weirdo. I have no problem. I have no problem with it. Matt, if if if Vault 12 and all the mobile lightning wallets fail, at least, you know, there can be eCash. So if Vault 12 Vault 12 requires LND to play ball, eCash doesn't. Yeah. I mean, if if That's the beauty. If mobile any thoughts fail, we'll just go to eCash. My Bitcoin then is no protocol changes.
835
01:27:59.010 --> 01:28:01.590
This thing works. And eCash works.
836
01:28:01.965 --> 01:28:09.105
Like, it just fucking works. And the beauty is is, like, okay. If Lightning is an interoperable payment protocol between
837
01:28:09.770 --> 01:28:12.030
custodians, let's make the custodians better.
838
01:28:12.409 --> 01:28:13.150
And eCash
839
01:28:13.530 --> 01:28:28.949
single handedly makes the custodians better. They can't tell you what your transactions are. They give you privacy. They give you censorship resistance because you can't tell what people are transacting, who they are. And then you add Fedimint on top of that whole fucking thing, and all of a sudden, the rug pull risk gets reduced significantly.
840
01:28:29.329 --> 01:28:32.469
And all the hardcores will say, like, oh, all the Fedimint
841
01:28:32.849 --> 01:28:50.185
guardians could all be the same fucking person. Well, yeah, on Walnut satoshi, it's all the same fucking person already. Like, the status quo is that people are using custodian. Let's make the custodians better. But do you I I was like, I I I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate. And then Do it. Like, there's like so okay. So for, like, you know,
842
01:28:50.745 --> 01:28:54.205
a large say, Cash App does e cash for, like, their balance holder.
843
01:28:54.745 --> 01:29:05.350
But, like, like, they have they have they have, like, requirements by government to do, like, this KYC and all those things. Like, so what custodial service would use this anonymous e cash back end The beauty of e cash
844
01:29:05.970 --> 01:29:07.190
is you could do KYC
845
01:29:08.115 --> 01:29:13.975
on entrance, exit, and we're still at a way better status quo than we are in the current system.
846
01:29:14.515 --> 01:29:17.175
Like, they could do all their full KYC requirements.
847
01:29:18.280 --> 01:29:23.100
In the best case. In the best case? If all the custodian or the Yeah. You know, federation members,
848
01:29:23.640 --> 01:29:28.895
collude, then Yeah. No. No. No. But I'm saying, like, in the in and the out, they can do
849
01:29:29.515 --> 01:29:34.015
It's not They could do KYC on the in and the out, and we're still better than the status quo.
850
01:29:34.510 --> 01:29:48.304
But I've never heard I've never heard anybody advocate for e cash to save your generational wealth or whatever. No. Of course not. E cash is it's spending. It's fast. It's instant. No. No. It's a better custodian. Right? It's a much better custodian.
851
01:29:49.005 --> 01:29:50.625
Much. Let's improve the custodians.
852
01:29:51.040 --> 01:29:58.980
Right. Like, it's it's actually a tangible goal we can have without a protocol change because Like, your rugging risk for your pocket money,
853
01:29:59.325 --> 01:30:01.425
like, will always be non zero.
854
01:30:02.364 --> 01:30:04.785
And I But we can reduce that risk with Fedimint.
855
01:30:05.325 --> 01:30:15.400
Sure. And we can reduce we can reduce the privacy risk with just straight up e cash, period. Yep. Whether that's single sig or Fedimint. So Yeah. And it's like the cashew mints being interoperable.
856
01:30:15.875 --> 01:30:35.140
Like, say, we do cashew instead of Fedimint. Right? But they're interoperable because of Lightning. Over Like, that's where Lightning comes to the eye. Exactly. And that's Because Lightning's amazing as an interoperable payment protocol between custodians. We already know that. Right. So somebody like, I get paid in, like, some cashew that's, like, a total shit point that I don't trust or whatever.
857
01:30:35.505 --> 01:30:38.165
And it instantly converts into the e, the cashew
858
01:30:38.625 --> 01:30:42.565
that meant that I trust Right. In some way that I choose to have a relationship.
859
01:30:42.945 --> 01:30:49.430
It's like choosing who you have relationships with, and that's what's kind of It's free banking. Changing around that. Yeah. Free banking. Absolutely.
860
01:30:49.970 --> 01:31:00.940
Yeah. The the main issue I have and that shit. He came way closer. He came in. He's there. You you said he can't be there. I'm fucking there. Somebody he's the weirdo, man. He gave me he gave me his seat. He gave me his seat.
861
01:31:01.900 --> 01:31:05.680
The only the main By the way, guys, this is a weirdo robot. Right? I don't see.
862
01:31:06.300 --> 01:31:16.215
The main the main issue I have is a lot of the marketing, whether intentional or not, which I have a feeling it's nonintentional. It just so happens that a lot of big time Bitcoiners are also very much into, like, Fedimint,
863
01:31:16.630 --> 01:31:23.210
eCash. You've got the entire Mutiny team who are killer, by the way. Tony, don't hurt me. Are they big time Bitcoiners? Are they influencers?
864
01:31:23.965 --> 01:31:27.744
You know what? We're scared of them, so he said don't. Yes. Exactly. I will I don't get that.
865
01:31:28.125 --> 01:31:31.905
No. Can we just set the record straight? Like, Tony, Ben, Paul, influencers.
866
01:31:32.510 --> 01:31:38.290
Absolutely. Yes. They've been on this podcast before, so they're obviously into the micro. They're influencers.
867
01:31:40.030 --> 01:31:41.330
Okay. Continue. Continue.
868
01:31:43.405 --> 01:31:53.120
The only the only problem I have with it is it it's considered a Mhmm. Everyone talks about it as a scaling solution for Bitcoin. Not a scaling solution. Because the are never a good scaling
869
01:31:53.420 --> 01:32:07.980
No. It's a scaling solution. It's not a scaling solution for Bitcoin because it's not Bitcoin. No. It's eCash. Exactly. But it's so It has to be. And that's fine. ECash. And I have I have absolutely no problem with the technology itself. If, like, my parents wanted to come into Yeah.
870
01:32:10.140 --> 01:32:25.915
Tony is calming your nerves. Okay? You gotta be more you he and I have already got this. And he understands my point, and I understand his. My only issue with it, it has nothing to do with the technology because I think the people that are behind it are fucking killer. The issue I have with it is
871
01:32:26.240 --> 01:32:33.675
everybody's understanding is, like, oh, it's Bitcoin. It's No. It's not Bitcoin. It's an IOU. It's literally an IOU. Exactly. But most people don't know that.
872
01:32:34.074 --> 01:32:36.574
And it's people are not using Bitcoin.
873
01:32:37.034 --> 01:32:59.155
I We're we're on the I get it. Like, Michael Saylor's a 100,000,000 number is bullshit. I will talk to people, and I'll mention this shit. 5. That are Bitcoin, and they're like, oh, it's a scaling solution of Bitcoin. I'm like, that's like saying Ethereum is a scaling solution for Bitcoin. It is. You atomic swap over to it. You do your shit. You get some ass shit and you come back. Ish. It's fuck you know, it's the same thing. And I'm like,
874
01:33:00.550 --> 01:33:05.770
Where's the Okay. Fine. Like, yeah. It's but it's not great. You know? It's but it's fine. If if
875
01:33:06.070 --> 01:33:13.335
I think I think things like we take the custodial solutions that we use now, like StackrNube He's writing semantics wrong. Yeah.
876
01:33:13.875 --> 01:33:14.935
It's all spelling.
877
01:33:15.240 --> 01:33:15.980
I I
878
01:33:16.680 --> 01:33:19.580
I I think I wanna If you take something like Stackr news,
879
01:33:19.960 --> 01:33:26.645
and instead of having it be the custodial solution, which I'm not sure what they're running behind the scenes, but whatever they're running behind the scenes,
880
01:33:27.425 --> 01:33:28.485
and they do
881
01:33:29.185 --> 01:33:33.610
they run some sort of Chow Meaney cash, whatever it is, whether it's a sentiment or whatever.
882
01:33:34.230 --> 01:33:37.690
It's it's gonna be better than what they have now. I agree.
883
01:33:38.950 --> 01:33:47.865
And if that if that means that people can Custodians can never be a scaling solution. Like, I don't I don't think I don't think custodians are a scaling solution.
884
01:33:48.469 --> 01:33:52.570
They're just what it is right now. Like, right now, people use custodians.
885
01:33:53.510 --> 01:34:06.125
And it's because of it's because of the realities of the protocol and because of how people interact with the protocol that they they realize whether they whether they actually realize it or not. They realize the realities of the protocol and they use custodians.
886
01:34:06.570 --> 01:34:13.230
We can improve the custodians. But we like, I will never call it a a a scaling solution Yeah. For a lot of brokers. I think that
887
01:34:13.775 --> 01:34:38.085
that is the way it is marketed. It is marketed as a scaling solution. It is barely marketed, period Right. Right. In general. Like, it's like we're all die hard. So, like, we see, like, e cash propaganda all day every day. They're like that door. But that's just, like, a dozen of us. It sounds like you're heavily VCs. It's heavily I mean, I'm one of the VCs backing Patty. Very nice. Right. Yeah. Sounds like you're your your issue is not necessarily
888
01:34:38.465 --> 01:34:41.685
correct me if I'm wrong here. You're saying it's not the your issue is not with the technology
889
01:34:42.360 --> 01:34:47.980
itself or people, you know, that that people might wanna use it. Your issue is, like, how it's being framed
890
01:34:48.360 --> 01:34:51.955
and and that you think that there is a misunderstanding and a miscommunication
891
01:34:52.335 --> 01:34:55.635
about it and that you prefer that people understood a little bit better
892
01:34:56.335 --> 01:34:56.995
the differences
893
01:34:57.340 --> 01:35:10.975
between it and Bitcoin. I mean, I Is that right? Yes. I think and, again, I don't even think it's on purpose. I just think we happen to have a lot of Bitcoiners who are very well known. It's definitely not very much into it. Okay. I feel like you're talking about me, and I'm, like, right next to you. I'm not.
894
01:35:12.635 --> 01:35:29.885
He's mostly talking about, like, First of all, number 1 number 1 thing I want to clarify here is is, like, VC backed in Bitcoin is different than, like, VC backed normally. Like, they're not flying private jets. Like, Tony, Ben, and all of them are, like, they're still eating ramen noodles. Like, he flew Coach for Madera,
895
01:35:30.505 --> 01:35:34.040
I assume. I've signed him more Gucci the other day. I know. I'm just changing.
896
01:35:34.900 --> 01:35:52.070
Based on the amount of fun a good cigarette. Based on the amount of fun he received, I assume he he flew coach from Madera. He went to talk. They need Ramen. Like, they're like, it's not like your typical Silicon Valley VC backed whatever. Like, we're, like, we're trying to make a difference here. And then the second thing is,
897
01:35:53.650 --> 01:35:57.825
the the the second thing is is is is you have to just look at, like,
898
01:35:58.785 --> 01:36:09.030
the realities of the situation. Right? Like, I've been in Bitcoin long enough. Like, people choose the cheapest, most convenient way to use Bitcoin, period. And and what that means is they use WalletHub's.
899
01:36:09.970 --> 01:36:13.270
What that means is, like, the crypto people use Tether on Tron.
900
01:36:13.570 --> 01:36:15.350
Like, they use whatever's cheapest,
901
01:36:15.835 --> 01:36:17.215
easiest, most convenient,
902
01:36:17.755 --> 01:36:20.655
and they don't realize rug pull risk until after the fact.
903
01:36:21.515 --> 01:36:22.015
So
904
01:36:25.480 --> 01:36:28.780
I fucking hate Tony, you're not never getting another check, by the way.
905
01:36:31.960 --> 01:36:36.225
So the the the key the key here is is, like, how do how do we improve
906
01:36:37.005 --> 01:36:44.770
people's experience with Bitcoin without a protocol change, period. And that's eCash. Sure. That's straight up eCash. Like, let's improve the custodians.
907
01:36:45.230 --> 01:36:47.570
If we get bolt 12, if we get,
908
01:36:48.030 --> 01:36:50.210
you know, any kind yeah. CTV.
909
01:36:50.510 --> 01:36:51.345
Like, we get,
910
01:36:52.065 --> 01:37:05.100
I'm I'm I'm not advocating by the way, this is not me advocating for CTV because I've been on those Twitter lists, and we're like, these 10 people decide, like, oh, I will change Bitcoin based on it. Like, fuck you. Make your own fucking decision.
911
01:37:05.935 --> 01:37:14.915
But, like, I am not banking on a protocol change. Right. I wanna improve the situation for Bitcoiners right now, and that is Bitcoiners are using custodial solutions,
912
01:37:15.230 --> 01:37:26.215
and we should make the custodians better. Like the custodians shouldn't know every single transaction you make. And we should we should federate those custodians so that they can easily rug pull you and we should make it very easy
913
01:37:26.675 --> 01:37:32.775
for people to spin up competing ones. Like, it's it's very difficult to to to spin up a competing wallet with a satoshi.
914
01:37:33.190 --> 01:37:34.650
Like, imagine if on voltage,
915
01:37:34.950 --> 01:37:53.980
it was one click, and I can I can spin up a competing wallet of satoshi that was completely private, that was federated? Like, that would be fucking dope. So should our next private? That would improve that would improve the situation for people. It should. And that's why that's why I care about Fedimint. That's why I care about eCash. Like, I think it it actually does help the status quo currently.
916
01:37:54.440 --> 01:37:58.865
And, like, all the VC backed nonsense is like, the VCs we're all struggling with all of you.
917
01:38:00.305 --> 01:38:01.365
Like, I guess not.
918
01:38:02.225 --> 01:38:04.565
Like, I'm not wondering, like, I like Gucci
919
01:38:04.945 --> 01:38:09.780
Should should our next product should our next product be Fedimed Guardian nodes on voltage?
920
01:38:10.160 --> 01:38:10.660
Yes.
921
01:38:11.200 --> 01:38:38.745
It's not ready. You know it's not ready, though. There's there's not ready. When will it be ready? Be the change you wanna see in the world. Kim told you. Be the change. Be the change you wanna see in the world. Problem, but I know it because I ran it. I'm bringing Kim into it. Terribly bugged. It was Kim's idea. There's another market. Look, you have an improvement. It's like, if the government comes in and they can't confiscate it. They can't take the value. They can only shut it down. It's different from, like, confiscating goals because you're, like, actually taking that value away. So it's marginally better in a sense.
922
01:38:40.220 --> 01:38:48.320
I think the important that's how we win. The important piece of this is that the card and e cash stuff e cash stuff absolutely has a place.
923
01:38:49.315 --> 01:38:54.135
Right? It's important for people to realize that when they put Bitcoin into it,
924
01:38:54.835 --> 01:39:03.625
they are not getting the the token that they are getting is not Bitcoin. It's an IOU. It is an IOU. A perfectly private IOU. That is that and that's that they could transfer
925
01:39:10.700 --> 01:39:16.640
coin. Completely. It's a bit better than that. Doesn't say that. People buying Bitcoin. Coinbase is pretty good.
926
01:39:16.940 --> 01:39:25.864
So, like, it's like No no one online can see this, but everyone in the room is standing up ready to throw punches now. Right. It is it's getting very heated here. But I think I think so Bitcoin.
927
01:39:26.165 --> 01:39:29.980
Let let so I think that to to Tony's point, spelling aside, is that,
928
01:39:30.380 --> 01:39:32.960
it's like it's like Tony's spelling is fucking horrible.
929
01:39:33.739 --> 01:39:38.795
I didn't Tony, I didn't say that Matt did. But Evan from Zeus has amazing spelling.
930
01:39:41.195 --> 01:39:43.054
Well, like, no. Like like like What is capitalization?
931
01:39:43.355 --> 01:40:05.745
Literally, like, these are these are all, like, semantics that, like, are that don't exist anywhere else outside of Bitcoin for the most part that are, like these are, like, very big distinctions between, like, things that we, like, in this room are all, like, very passionate about, the difference between the two. But it is, like, very hard to communicate the difference between these, like, the outside world. And that's something I think Bitcoin in general needs to do better of is, like, communicating
932
01:40:06.420 --> 01:40:28.440
what is the thing that is, like that is needed for a particular use case or anything like that. Right. Like, when does it matter that you use eCash? When does it matter that you use a Bitcoin UTXO? When does it matter that you do a lightning channel or whatever? Right. And to to, an unknowing user, like, they have no fucking idea. It's all just garbage, and it's just all, like, this mess. Shit. Fuck. Right. And so, again, that's
933
01:40:28.740 --> 01:40:38.425
you said something earlier when we first started about, like, naming of, like, Magma and Hydro. Like, it's like there's, like we do a bad job of naming. Harming. We do a bad job of naming. We do a bad job of, like, differentiating between
934
01:40:38.820 --> 01:40:48.355
products and when they need to be used and when they don't need to be used. And I think that's something that can be really enhanced. And to to Tony's point, like, it's all semantics of, like and that's that's
935
01:40:49.475 --> 01:41:13.145
weird robots. Point 2. Weird robots. Weird robots point 2 of, like it's like, I think we could do a better job of just, like, communicating about, like, what it is and, like, maybe servicing it in the right way of what is the appropriate use case for the job. Yeah. Right? And it's like there is if you're trying to store, like, your life savings in, like, a a censorship resistant way, e cash is not the way. You need to use, like, a Bitcoin UTXO or something.
936
01:41:13.580 --> 01:41:19.520
And, you know, if you want to have a spending balance, like, e cash is probably fine, and, like, you can store money there. But it's just, like,
937
01:41:19.900 --> 01:41:25.635
semantics is hard is what I'm saying. And it's never been actually so hard as it is in Bitcoin
938
01:41:26.175 --> 01:41:31.230
because this is like it's so they're so extreme of, like, of,
939
01:41:32.170 --> 01:41:40.494
the spectrum is so extreme between, like, a coin base and, like, owning your UTXO and, like, a gold card and you're safe at home that's fireproof resistant, all those things.
940
01:41:41.675 --> 01:41:42.175
Mac,
941
01:41:42.795 --> 01:41:46.415
correct me if I'm wrong. The purpose of FETI isn't really for us.
942
01:41:46.860 --> 01:41:49.520
Right? It's for people making, like, a dollar a day.
943
01:41:50.060 --> 01:41:52.880
No. I mean, that's just like a narrative. Okay.
944
01:41:53.180 --> 01:42:05.940
Alright. I mean Marketing? Because we're talking about, like, savings shouldn't be it. But some people's savings probably will be it in some parts. I mean, I think it's I think I think I'll tell you it's part of marketing. It's a private lab there. It's collaborative custody. Yeah. Do you like to gamble? It's for
945
01:42:06.400 --> 01:42:07.380
you. No. No.
946
01:42:09.199 --> 01:42:19.955
Is it true? People You could. People like, this whole global south narrative has completely overtaken the Fedimint discussion, in my opinion. Yeah. But really, Chaumie and eCash was originally designed for privacy.
947
01:42:20.300 --> 01:42:28.400
And I kinda like the idea of, like, if you wanna, you know, be private with, you know, some big amounts of money, could you you could swap it into a federation
948
01:42:28.905 --> 01:42:32.445
with Ecash and then swap it out at some point. It's like, you know,
949
01:42:32.905 --> 01:42:39.710
you're trying to do workshops and it's like, should I use Ronin Dojo? Should I use Wasabi Wallet? Should I, like, you know,
950
01:42:40.330 --> 01:42:49.784
you know, go to a hobo and pay him to go inside and buy me a burner phone and then use a burner phone to buy a laptop, install Tails OS,
951
01:42:50.085 --> 01:42:53.385
and then and then get my Bitcoin that way. Yeah. Tails. Okay. Yeah.
952
01:42:53.844 --> 01:43:06.170
No. No. On the laptop, then I had to activate the email account on the TailsOS laptop using the burner phone. And then I bought my non KYC Bitcoin, and it's like, you know, hey. I changed the MAC address on my laptop artificially
953
01:43:06.595 --> 01:43:19.210
and was in a Starbucks while I was using it with my hood up so that nobody freaking saw me on a security camera. That's how I get my no cable. No. These privacy things don't work. So, like, e cash, what if we just, like, swapped it in, swapped it out? There you go.
954
01:43:19.590 --> 01:43:21.369
That's what we pulled out. Hold on, though.
955
01:43:22.070 --> 01:43:30.425
It did, like I can't wear the hoodies He's not even wearing a hood, but he stimulated the hood. Yeah. Simulated it. Yeah. Most people pay for the hood, and you assume they could get that computer.
956
01:43:31.179 --> 01:43:31.679
Oh,
957
01:43:31.980 --> 01:43:45.324
Tony's saying there's a million things self custodial lightning can't do. He said can't in all caps. You should've done the whole thing in all caps for a very long time, and eCash solves those friction points, or you can wait for the bolt 12 unicorn async world.
958
01:43:45.864 --> 01:44:02.614
I agree. I think And he's right. I love eCash first. Like, solving this, like, end youth logic. It just works today with no protocol change, period. It so it sounds like we're, like, everyone's, like, in agreement here. It's just kind of like the some it's, again, the semantics of, like, how do you how do you present it and, like,
959
01:44:03.219 --> 01:44:08.440
what we're sorry. I didn't answer real much. I didn't really do it. Oh. I think Bob. I mean, Bob.
960
01:44:09.860 --> 01:44:21.945
Graham Graham is passively, aggressively indicating that I should go do some fake mobile and go to, you know, try and figure out if a brain be worth it. Us, man. Okay. So okay. So, Matt, so I have a question for you. So you're talking about protocol level changes. Are you
961
01:44:22.300 --> 01:44:26.320
are you against protocol level changes, or are you just not waiting for those to happen?
962
01:44:27.020 --> 01:44:34.325
I'm just waiting because I would you know, I'm look. Bitcoin's value prop is that it's hard to change by default. Yeah. Mhmm.
963
01:44:34.785 --> 01:44:40.740
Like, protocol changes should be very fucking difficult. Sure. And I'm not gonna waste my time waiting for them.
964
01:44:41.600 --> 01:44:52.485
Very And here I am. And I'm and, like, people need funding and support on things that don't require protocol changes, and I am going to support them. And and one of the beautiful things about
965
01:44:52.920 --> 01:44:54.460
10 thirty one's value prop
966
01:44:55.240 --> 01:45:00.060
for investors is that there's so many investors that invest on protocol changes,
967
01:45:00.565 --> 01:45:12.870
and they do, like, ridiculous valuations on those things. And then, like, we just get to, like, have her pick a litter of non protocol changes things. Mhmm. So, like, we we could provide good value to the investor. We provide good value to the network.
968
01:45:13.250 --> 01:45:17.270
Everybody wins. But, like, I will not I'm I will never
969
01:45:18.625 --> 01:45:19.844
If it's not live,
970
01:45:20.145 --> 01:45:26.809
it's not happening. That's how it should be. Right now and run CTV if you want to. Yeah. And no one will use it. Yeah. And
971
01:45:29.270 --> 01:45:44.800
I I totally agree. And there's, like, a good heros. I've written a couple angel checks, like, in my life, and it's really nice. Like, you just wanna minimize the number of miracles that you're investing in. Yeah. They're like very appealing to miracles, and adding a protocol change on top of that is
972
01:45:45.260 --> 01:45:49.440
1. Ridiculous. Like, do not expect protocol changes, period.
973
01:45:50.125 --> 01:46:05.810
And, like, on lightning, for whatever reason, people are like, oh, like, protocol changes are more possible. Like, no. Not really. It's like, does does l and d agree? Right. So I mean, I mean, that that is that is the reality of the situation. And so, like, we end up in, like, a lightning address world,
974
01:46:07.474 --> 01:46:09.255
you know, where everyone's using lnurl.
975
01:46:09.954 --> 01:46:31.170
Well, yeah. Like so, like, that that that I guess that's why I asked is because there there are people out there that are like, Bitcoin should never change or whatever. But it's just clarifying to know that you are you're not against change. You're just like you're not gonna you're not gonna wait on that time. No. The reason I'm a maximalist on Bitcoin is because I believe that Bitcoin will change with momentum. Like Mhmm. But the the the question is is it requires, like,
976
01:46:31.650 --> 01:46:33.989
a overwhelming amount of momentum.
977
01:46:34.449 --> 01:46:44.495
Mhmm. Right. Right? So, like, it's very rare that that will happen. But when when it does happen, it will happen. And, like, that's why I can, you know, store my family's wealth in Bitcoin
978
01:46:45.035 --> 01:46:47.295
is because, like, when there is an overwhelming
979
01:46:47.675 --> 01:46:50.949
desire for this thing. This is what people miss with b cash.
980
01:46:51.250 --> 01:46:52.630
Like, b cash was
981
01:46:53.170 --> 01:46:59.265
was just a disaster. Like, no one wanted to invest in b cash. Oh, I love my savings. There was
982
01:47:00.845 --> 01:47:07.745
but there there was no desire there was no desire there, and there was also, like, there was no debt manpower. There was no real
983
01:47:08.130 --> 01:47:08.950
real motivation
984
01:47:09.330 --> 01:47:10.230
for that change.
985
01:47:10.690 --> 01:47:16.150
But, like, if there was actually, like, a real motivation for a change, like, Bitcoiners will
986
01:47:16.764 --> 01:47:18.704
protect their wealth and change.
987
01:47:19.324 --> 01:47:25.824
And as a result, like, the ledger that is Bitcoin, like, you own this UTXO, Graham owns this UTXO,
988
01:47:26.489 --> 01:47:27.389
That ledger
989
01:47:28.489 --> 01:47:28.989
matters.
990
01:47:29.610 --> 01:47:35.710
Right? And, like, we want that to preserve through time. So no matter what, like, Bitcoiners will always make sure
991
01:47:36.435 --> 01:47:38.055
that that is the ledger
992
01:47:38.595 --> 01:47:39.735
that holds well.
993
01:47:40.195 --> 01:47:42.295
And but it it requires this, like,
994
01:47:43.370 --> 01:47:46.910
really hard to measure until after the fact kind of measurement.
995
01:47:47.530 --> 01:47:52.830
But but at the the the my point is the whole point of this thing is, like, you just don't expect change.
996
01:47:53.195 --> 01:47:54.155
Like, at the end of results
997
01:47:55.115 --> 01:47:57.295
the non change is the default. Yeah.
998
01:47:57.675 --> 01:48:00.095
And when change is necessary, it will happen.
999
01:48:01.510 --> 01:48:04.570
And fuck you if I'm your oracle for that.
1000
01:48:04.870 --> 01:48:09.815
Yeah. Because I do not want to be the oracle for that. And and anyone of integrity should not want
1001
01:48:12.375 --> 01:48:21.570
to be the oracle of that. And and and and it'll be what it'll be. But at the at at in the short term, focus on things that don't require protocol changes. Well, sure. It's a very easy solution,
1002
01:48:21.950 --> 01:48:28.565
and I wanna see things that ship. I wanna things see things that I can touch in my hand. And, like, we can talk about all the, like, ridiculousness
1003
01:48:29.665 --> 01:48:50.920
about, like, all these different proposals or whatever. But at the end of the day, like, if I don't see them and I can't use them, then they're they're irrelevant to me. Like, I'm not gonna pay attention to them. Yep. And that totally makes sense, I think, from an investor angle and also It's not even an investor angle, but investor angle comes second. I know. You're talking about the podcast on how you basically told us leave off the philosophical bullshit. Let's talk practical,
1004
01:48:52.040 --> 01:48:58.460
Bitcoin discussion. But I broke that. I get it. But, you didn't break it. No. It's funny. Because I talked about philosophical,
1005
01:48:59.265 --> 01:49:01.605
protocol stuff. But I get it. It does make sense because
1006
01:49:01.985 --> 01:49:02.485
if
1007
01:49:02.864 --> 01:49:11.350
you make a company and your company You wouldn't like Breedlove about it. Like, you're good. No. But I I mean, I thought about protocol changes. I get it. But here's the thing.
1008
01:49:11.890 --> 01:49:25.040
I get it. Because if you make if you make a company, a Bitcoin company, and your company hinges on a protocol change, that's not a good company. Yeah. And then you raise, like like, Paul Stork Sports or whatever however fuck you pronounce his name. Like, he raised, like, $4,000,000
1009
01:49:25.500 --> 01:49:33.725
on a protocol change. Never gonna fucking happen. And he and it's, like, fucking ridiculous. And that it's beautiful from a 1031 perspective because, like, they just wasted $4,000,000.
1010
01:49:34.665 --> 01:49:40.364
You know? But, like, from a big like, the thing is, like, everyone wants to I always talk about
1011
01:49:41.389 --> 01:49:42.610
I know I've won
1012
01:49:43.230 --> 01:49:45.650
when all the conspiracy theories are, like,
1013
01:49:46.670 --> 01:49:53.574
the big corners are behind it. You know, like, we we should be they. That'll be good. Like, they should all be we should be they. But,
1014
01:49:54.594 --> 01:49:56.215
like, the thing is is
1015
01:49:56.679 --> 01:49:59.659
is is my sheer motive is
1016
01:50:00.280 --> 01:50:02.380
increasing the value of my Bitcoin stack.
1017
01:50:02.760 --> 01:50:03.559
Like, I
1018
01:50:04.295 --> 01:50:06.395
my family stores are valuing Bitcoin.
1019
01:50:07.255 --> 01:50:14.620
That is my ultimate motive. Like, people can talk about 10:31. People can talk about Open SaaS. People can Bitcoin is in the room.
1020
01:50:15.000 --> 01:50:16.060
You're in the room.
1021
01:50:19.000 --> 01:50:22.485
You don't even attach a a zap to that. Yeah. So much fun.
1022
01:50:23.425 --> 01:50:24.405
Support the show.
1023
01:50:24.945 --> 01:50:26.485
They can't stop it.
1024
01:50:28.060 --> 01:50:37.360
It's it's about it's about like, the the number one incentive for me is always about increasing the value of my Bitcoin and and making sure my Bitcoin is is still spendable.
1025
01:50:37.725 --> 01:50:42.145
Right? Because, like, that's what people miss. Right? Like, people say, like, store value versus spending Bitcoin.
1026
01:50:42.844 --> 01:50:44.785
Right. It's it's all interconnected
1027
01:50:45.360 --> 01:50:50.900
because there's no value stored if I can't spend it without permission. Yeah. Like, you need both.
1028
01:50:51.360 --> 01:50:55.385
You need both. And, like, that is my pure goal. My pure goal is
1029
01:50:55.764 --> 01:51:02.840
that. And and to be honest, like, I'm towards the end of, like, my public persona. Like, I am very tired. I'm a tired
1030
01:51:03.300 --> 01:51:12.295
man. This is very enjoyable. Thank you, guys. This is the last episode of Sedge of Distash. Thank you all. Yeah. Yeah. It's a blast to do it with you. Do not like and subscribe.
1031
01:51:13.554 --> 01:51:14.054
Oh.
1032
01:51:16.514 --> 01:51:17.335
Keep zapping.
1033
01:51:17.955 --> 01:51:19.750
But, yeah, keep zapping. We can use
1034
01:51:22.070 --> 01:51:23.210
diapers are expensive.
1035
01:51:25.510 --> 01:51:37.755
But, like but that's what it's about. Right? Like, it's about like, that's the beauty of Bitcoin. It's, like, we have this shared equity. Right? It's, like, Voltage like, I love you guys. Like, you guys are all, like, your family. Like, it's ridiculous.
1036
01:51:38.700 --> 01:51:39.840
It's absolutely ridiculous.
1037
01:51:40.220 --> 01:51:42.640
Voltage is not part of the 1031 portfolio.
1038
01:51:43.260 --> 01:51:45.680
Mhmm. And, like, it's one of the ones that I wish was,
1039
01:51:46.065 --> 01:51:48.725
but it's not. We'll talk after the show. Yeah.
1040
01:51:50.225 --> 01:51:52.965
But Do you think, Bitcoin will ever become boring?
1041
01:51:53.540 --> 01:51:56.200
Yeah. It is boring already. Aren't you guys bored?
1042
01:51:56.580 --> 01:52:17.540
Like, why do we keep talking about I talk about it because people want us to talk about it, but I'm like, really all day. We feel it and make it new and fun. Yeah. I get. But it is a little bit boring at this point. Everything in life is a little bit boring and same with Bitcoin. But it's honestly whenever we get together when it's, like, kind of exciting. Yeah. You talk about the shit you can build because it's, like, where's the world going skating to the park? Yeah. I I will talk about Bitcoin
1043
01:52:18.400 --> 01:52:35.190
for hours and hours and hours. One day, Bitcoin will be boring. Bitcoin will just be money. No one will no one no one asks, like, how does email work? Yeah. Right. They just fucking use the thing. Bitcoin is Right? Like, no one's gonna ask how Bitcoin works. No one's gonna like, billions of Bitcoiners will exist
1044
01:52:35.650 --> 01:52:37.429
that never question
1045
01:52:38.335 --> 01:53:11.035
anything about how it works. It's just how they send money across the world. So in 40 years, we're gonna just be like Not 40 years. Why are you being so bearish? It's kinda like Yeah. Yeah. That is. 80s? Remember the good old 80s? Yeah. I really hope it's not 40 years. Like, no reason. I'm just sticking to a number that makes us old, but not dead. But certainly So The odds are pretty boring until you have a way to earn it. You know? When you have a way to earn it, you become very excited because that's But no one knows how the dollar works. No one knows how eBay works. No one knows how Internet works. I would say who emails they'll be. Bitcoin users in the future will know how Bitcoin works. This is true. Yeah. They get confused when I ask that. I think,
1046
01:53:12.295 --> 01:53:19.250
that the Bitcoin culture has gotten very boring, but Bitcoin building is never boring. Yeah. The philosophy shit. Fuck that shit. The
1047
01:53:20.350 --> 01:53:24.770
hours and hours are, like, oh my god. Like, Bitcoin, like, ships won't sink.
1048
01:53:25.230 --> 01:53:31.554
Like, we'll have Bitcoin. Yeah. Like, how could the ship sink? Like, fuck. What are you talking about? It's
1049
01:53:32.255 --> 01:53:33.235
fucking bullshit.
1050
01:53:34.255 --> 01:53:41.219
So if you're not building, like, that's how you end up. Right? Like, if you if you leave if you leave the technical side of Bitcoin for too long,
1051
01:53:41.599 --> 01:53:50.875
you end up in, like, a 10 hour brief question. So whenever, what was it? Facebook and Instagram went down, and the next day, LinkedIn go down. Was there, like, a boost at all to, like, noster
1052
01:53:51.659 --> 01:53:57.199
join sign ups? I didn't look. I know there's a website that tracks it. Look. As far as I'm concerned on Noster, like
1053
01:53:57.659 --> 01:53:59.040
You didn't answer my question.
1054
01:54:02.445 --> 01:54:04.225
Four words, that's all you get.
1055
01:54:04.845 --> 01:54:06.145
As far as I'm concerned,
1056
01:54:07.500 --> 01:54:09.280
you were not gonna answer my question.
1057
01:54:10.140 --> 01:54:25.830
He could see it. Low time frame for it's Bobby. Yeah. More words. Yes. We had we had a massive boost to master. It was? I don't know. I just made it up. Alright. 50th. I'm just I'm just telling who it was. And, like, you probably gotta come. You know? Everyone just went outside. Look. Look. I've
1058
01:54:26.290 --> 01:54:33.670
I've I've lost faith I've lost faith in Bitcorners in terms of the Nostra side, and I just don't even give a shit. Like, the ride or dies are Nostra.
1059
01:54:34.055 --> 01:54:37.995
The only people left on on Twitter are blue checks and their simps.
1060
01:54:38.535 --> 01:54:38.775
And,
1061
01:54:40.135 --> 01:54:45.450
that's just that's just what it is. That's that's what it is. Like, you guys are addicted to fucking Twitter,
1062
01:54:46.070 --> 01:54:56.485
and you don't really give a shit that that Elon does not care about you guys. And you just wanna be on a centralized platform, and that's fine by me. Why wouldn't Elon care about me?
1063
01:54:56.945 --> 01:55:03.590
Yeah. Exactly. That's my point. Talked about. I think I mean, Snowden even more Why I think I think you
1064
01:55:04.530 --> 01:55:06.230
heard that question the wrong way.
1065
01:55:07.465 --> 01:55:08.764
Elaborate. Like, why would
1066
01:55:09.465 --> 01:55:15.885
I think he's trying to say it's rhetorical. He's like, why, yeah, why would Elon Elon care about me individually? Why would anyone care about me individually?
1067
01:55:16.690 --> 01:55:22.469
That's the whole point. It's like it's like so Bitcoin is talking big game, but, like, you're gonna be paying for your CBDCs.
1068
01:55:23.465 --> 01:55:25.965
You're gonna be paying for this check with CBDCs.
1069
01:55:26.505 --> 01:55:33.930
You guys are all gonna be using CBDCs, and, like, the argument is gonna be, like, it's for the mission. I'm doing it for the mission. Like, Bitcoiners
1070
01:55:34.470 --> 01:56:02.885
on CBDC platforms need to know about CBDCs and Bitcoin, you know, and you're just gonna, like, go down all the path. It's all bullshit. Was all talking like Yeah. The ride or dies this week. The ride or dies are already on Noster. Like, it doesn't matter. I'm cool with the ride or dies. Like, James Deloft talked about it. They made the updates. Yeah. But he's also still on Twitter. Yeah. The phone yeah. Yeah. You're right. Where when a phone call is made, they're gonna track your IP because it's easier to handle the data versus, like, managing it themselves. So much easier. Turn it off.
1071
01:56:03.585 --> 01:56:05.525
Yeah. Yeah. We're all fucked. I mean
1072
01:56:08.020 --> 01:56:13.000
be the change you wanna see in the world, Bobby. You're not the software. Well, let's make Noster not boring.
1073
01:56:13.445 --> 01:56:28.390
Noster isn't boring. He got us by the throat with the $30 a month of They all talk about the same thing every day. Right. It was just, hey. All Bitcoin. Am I the people. Yeah. But all I wanna talk about all they're talking about on Twitter is Bitcoin anyway. What are you guys talking about on Twitter? Things you're gonna find, other topics.
1074
01:56:29.625 --> 01:56:33.505
How so so be the change you wanna see in the world, Justin. Oh, wow.
1075
01:56:33.945 --> 01:56:46.420
Here. Look at what Bob's talking about. They log into clients with their insect. How do you go about that? Like, you know Why is CD not on TikTok yet, Tony? Because I have fucking morals unlike you. Right. What the fuck are you doing?
1076
01:56:47.344 --> 01:56:47.925
Wait. Wait.
1077
01:56:49.025 --> 01:56:50.485
I can't imagine. You're defending.
1078
01:56:52.705 --> 01:56:56.165
Tony is an avid TikTok user. I can't imagine. For sure.
1079
01:56:57.030 --> 01:57:00.470
TikTok. But he's a CCP Tony did Spider Man mask on. I found his account.
1080
01:57:01.730 --> 01:57:08.864
Okay, guys. This has been a fucking great rail. Can I get can I get final thoughts from every single one of the 12 people in the room?
1081
01:57:09.165 --> 01:57:19.280
Tony and Ben are both bears. Okay. We're gonna start with final thoughts. We're gonna we're gonna start with final thoughts from Graham. Final thoughts. Final thoughts. I mean, I think that I think the takeaway here is that there's,
1082
01:57:20.345 --> 01:57:30.659
the the the fun part about Bitcoin is currently in the builder phase of, like, what can you make and what can you do to improve the protocol, the technology, all of those things.
1083
01:57:31.119 --> 01:57:31.940
And so
1084
01:57:32.400 --> 01:57:36.099
yeah. I mean, I think that's where we're excited about. Anyone that is excited about
1085
01:57:36.505 --> 01:57:39.965
that, like, particular area, you know, come to Voltage. Hit us up. Voltage.cloud.
1086
01:57:40.585 --> 01:57:41.085
Voltage.cloud.
1087
01:57:42.585 --> 01:57:46.740
Yeah. I won't even spill all of, like, the other, like, channels or, like, my personal shit. But
1088
01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:48.100
hit up voltage.cloud,
1089
01:57:48.800 --> 01:57:51.300
and we will help you get into the matrix
1090
01:57:51.805 --> 01:57:58.385
or out of the matrix, which is which is the You definitely want out of the matrix. You definitely want out of the matrix. We'll help you get out of the matrix
1091
01:57:59.540 --> 01:58:02.280
and and come into this Bitcoin ecosystem fully.
1092
01:58:03.460 --> 01:58:07.640
Thanks, Graham. Weird up. Almost like I'm gonna see if you know my name.
1093
01:58:08.755 --> 01:58:13.575
Yeah. I mean, I also know your legal name, but I didn't Yeah. E Cash is fine. They are social. Yeah.
1094
01:58:14.435 --> 01:58:17.990
That was right. And Tony and Bob, what's up? Nice.
1095
01:58:19.250 --> 01:58:20.150
That's all I got.
1096
01:58:21.650 --> 01:58:26.844
No bugs, no pods, no blue checks. Yeah. That's fucking it. Check out DLC
1097
01:58:27.145 --> 01:58:27.645
ticketing.
1098
01:58:28.264 --> 01:58:29.244
It's a cool project.
1099
01:58:29.545 --> 01:58:30.844
You want some cool stuff.
1100
01:58:32.344 --> 01:58:42.345
Ali, this is not on Bitcoin because I said Bitcoin's boring, but, I'll leave this on Voltage. He's an incredible team and one of the best teams I think I've ever worked with. So if you're not on Voltage, get the fuck on it.
1101
01:58:43.225 --> 01:58:44.525
Yeah. It's from Carlsdale.
1102
01:58:45.065 --> 01:58:47.965
I just wanna say it's all weird robot spells.
1103
01:58:52.990 --> 01:58:54.850
But, learn how to earn money with Bitcoin.
1104
01:58:57.470 --> 01:59:08.310
Bitcoin is not boring yet, and that's a good thing for us. And, yeah. I love like like, Behm said, I love this team, and it's the best team I've ever worked on. So Let's fucking go.
1105
01:59:11.030 --> 01:59:22.520
We are all gonna die one day, so don't waste precious seconds of your life trying to orange pill your friends and family. Enjoy it with something more beautiful. Next time you're in Atlanta, stop by ATL BitLab and support bolt 12.
1106
01:59:24.440 --> 01:59:28.380
That's what I can get. Weaponize the copyright system with Copyleft software.
1107
01:59:29.000 --> 01:59:33.255
Yeah. Good one. There you go. It's the best time ever to build on Bitcoin. Absolutely.
1108
01:59:34.835 --> 01:59:37.415
Fuck Bitcoin. You all have girlfriends, so
1109
01:59:37.875 --> 01:59:39.415
go marry them and make baby.
1110
01:59:50.105 --> 01:59:50.605
Kendrick?
1111
01:59:53.705 --> 01:59:54.205
Kendrick?
1112
01:59:58.010 --> 01:59:59.390
Did you hear that, Kendrick?
1113
02:00:00.330 --> 02:00:00.830
Yes.
1114
02:00:03.690 --> 02:00:05.935
My apologies. I thought my time was up.
1115
02:00:08.095 --> 02:00:09.875
No. We can continue if you like.
1116
02:00:11.295 --> 02:00:11.795
So
1117
02:00:12.415 --> 02:00:19.030
what did you say to the to the lady in the parking structure? You took my damn parking spot. I told her I didn't take your damn parking spot.
1118
02:00:19.330 --> 02:00:23.445
And how did that make you feel reacting that way? I felt decent.
1119
02:00:24.485 --> 02:00:25.784
Oh, how come?
1120
02:00:26.885 --> 02:00:28.824
Because I did take a party spot.
1121
02:00:34.160 --> 02:00:34.660
No.
1122
02:00:43.675 --> 02:00:46.095
You texted me at 2 o'clock in the morning.
1123
02:00:49.320 --> 02:00:50.780
I feel like I'm fallen.
1124
02:00:55.034 --> 02:00:56.494
Why do you feel that way?
1125
02:01:04.500 --> 02:01:05.000
Life.
1126
02:01:18.525 --> 02:01:21.370
One of these lies I'm a make these right with the wrongs I've done. That's
1127
02:01:28.525 --> 02:02:13.755
aimed at me. Done every magazine was fame to me. It's a game to me. The bedroom act, sleep ain't never had a fest with that. What's fair when our hearts and our words don't reach? What's fair when the money don't take things back? It's rare rare when somebody take your dreams back. I care too much. When I share too much, in my head too much, I shut down too. I ain't there too much. I'm a complex soul. They lared me up then broke me down. And morality's dust I lack in trust. This time around I trust myself. Please everybody else but myself. All those fells I was myself. Outdone fear, outdone myself. This year you better won yourself. Mask on the babies, mask on the hot wear, mask in the neighborhood. Stars you shot, but a mask won't hide till you are inside. Look around, the reality's carving lies. Wipe my ego, dodge my pride. Look myself in the mirror. Amity filled ain't seen none scarier. I fought like a pure bull terrier. Blood I shed could fill up aquariums.
1128
02:02:14.120 --> 02:02:23.605
Tell them my angels carry them. Every emotion been deprived. Even my stone points couldn't survive. If I didn't learn to love myself, forgive myself a 100 times. Don't.
1129
02:02:26.465 --> 02:02:31.220
I love when you count me out. I love when you count me out. I love when you count
1130
02:02:33.360 --> 02:02:37.015
me. I love when you count me out. I love when you count me out.