Shame List Picture Show S9E20 — Christmas Movies feat. Alonso Duralde

WEBVTT
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The Physical Media Advocate is a monthly ish zine curated
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by Ryan Vrel, the mind behind the disc Connected. Each
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issue channels the spirit of the underground zines of the
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eighties and nineties, offering a fresh, handcrafted, deep dive into
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the world of physical media. Inside every edition, you'll find
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updates on up common releases, film appreciation and analysis, curator
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lists from industry professionals, reviews, analytical essays, and fun contributions
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from boutique Blu Ray labels and creators. Throughout the hobby.
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You'll even find original games, contests, and plenty of surprises.
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I've had the privilege of contributing to this magazine twice,
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first an issue twenty one with the cover story Kill
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the Actor and exploration of the legacy of the Burt
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Reynolds classic The Longest Yard, and again an issue twenty
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four from Aldovia with love my heartfelt appreciation of Netflix
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Christmas Films. Pick up The Physical Media Advocates today at
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brick and mortar shops like City Trader, and you can
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also grab it at Videotech in Los Angeles, aircro Video
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in Seattle, and Video dro Made Atlanta, or order your
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copy today on Amazon. Available worldwide.
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Warning, this movie podcast actually discusses movies. Be aware that
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it may discuss any of the following elements, endings, surprise twists,
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unexpected cameos, and all manner of spoilers. If this doesn't
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appeal to you, then why listen to a movie podcast
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without further ado, Please enjoy our feature presentation The Shameless
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Picture Show.
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Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Shameless Picture Show.
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My name is Michael Ers, and today I'm being joined
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by two fantastic guests. We're gonna start with someone that
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longtime listeners will know the saltry sounds of his voice.
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We have returning for some yule Tide fun, my one
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of my very best friends in the world, Nick Richards.
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Woo, that's me.
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That's all you got? Who?
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Well?
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You said?
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Usually I say my name.
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I know, I fucked it up a little bit.
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It's fine, it's fine, All right, Let's let's pick it
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up from the last No, you just want to run it.
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Yeah, We're just gonna keep going, all right. But then
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we're also being joined by another very special guest. Today
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we have Alonzo Deiraldi on the podcast. And Alonzo, for
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those of you who might not Be Familiar is the
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chief US film critic for the film Verdict and co
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host of the podcast Linoleum, Knife, Breakfast, All Day, Maximum Film,
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and Deck the Hallmark. His books include Hollywood Pride and
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Have Yourself a Movie, Little Christmas, which was reissued in
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fall twenty twenty five by Bloomsbury in a revised and
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updated edition. He's also a former host for film Struck
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and has discussed films on Turner Classic Movies, CNN, and ABC,
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as well as in numerous documentaries. Alonzo, how are you
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doing today?
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I'm great, Thank you. Thanks for having me, guys.
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Not a problem, So if you don't mind me asking,
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since I'm just I'm looking at this bio. And I
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was a big fan of film Struck when that was around.
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Uh rip.
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I know, like the Criterion Channel is great, don't get
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me wrong, but it's it was. Film Struck was great
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because it felt like it was Criterion meets turned In
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Classic movies and now.
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That vegetables and dessert exactly. And while I.
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Don't pay and I don't pay for cable anymore, so
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I don't get Turner Classic Movies. It's the the only
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thing that makes me consider paying for cable.
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I pay for cable only to get Turner Classic Movies.
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I think that's literally the last thing if everything else.
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Like I could get on you know, Sling or Filo
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or one of those, but.
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No, although apparently if you get YouTube TV, that's the
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one non cable way to get TCM.
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Yes, but I don't imagine you I can just subscribe
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to Turner Classic Movie.
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Oh no, you've got to sign up for the whole Shebangyah. Yeah.
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And like the HBO having like a Turner Classic Movies,
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little thing does not. It doesn't, It doesn't scratch the itch.
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I want the intros. I want the really esoteric moody
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commercial breaks where they will show the films but play
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jazz music all of it.
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I like the insane deep cuts like I love you know,
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like I miss Underground a lot. But still the things
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that they will pull up, either whether it's something that's
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being curated, like you know, Caitlin Willian McLay and will
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Caitlin McLay and kayden Mark Gardner who wrote the really
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wonderful book Corpses, Fools and Monsters were just on and
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they were digging up stuff like some of my best
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friends are and the Christine Jorgensen story and like the
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things you would stumble upon maybe in the middle of
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the night on TCMU and you know, providing really great
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background for that. But I love that when TCM does
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their Star of the Month, they are they're giving you everything.
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They are giving you the hits and the award winning
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movies and then like the ones that probably the star
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in question, we just assume.
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Nobody ever see again. So I love that sense of completion.
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Yeah, and I've definitely seen some weird movies on Turtle
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Glastic movies. And when I was really young, I had
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this negative viewpoint of Turner class movies because like my
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uncle watched it all the time, and I feel like
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every time he had it on, he just had like
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some chamber piece talkie movie on that at the time
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I didn't appreciate. Sure, but as I've gotten older, I've
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grown to not only appreciate those movies, but just appreciate
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the weirdness that is Turner classic movies. And I'm actually
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hoping the next season to have Millie to Jericho on
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to talk more about her curation at that time and
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so on and so forth. So I know the fact
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that you were a host of Film Struck and you've
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discussed on Turner classic movies. I was like, this is
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this is, you know, one step closer to Ben Meker
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Whin's being on this show. So I had to I
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had to ask about it.
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No, No, I believe the film truck was was amazing,
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and it was. It was a beautiful moment and I
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miss it.
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Uh.
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And I'm glad that I've gotten to continue to do
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some separate TCM. I wrote the Hollywood Pride Book for
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their publishing imprint, and they've had me on a couple
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of times since the book came out, to do like
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a night of Queer Films with Dave carg which is
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always fun. So yeah, I'm really glad that even if
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it took some, you know, some some leverage of you know,
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Scorsese and Spielberg and Paul Thomas Anderson showing up to
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their offices and being like, hey, hands off, I'm glad
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that with all the other wackiness that that Warner Brothers
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Discovery has been going through of late, that they have
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managed to keep this jewel in their crown.
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Yeah, Nick, did you ever hear that story?
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I did not know.
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Yeah, So when everything was going still kind of going
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weird with the with Warner Brothers. Apparently at one point
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Turner Classic Movies was on the chopping block. They had
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already wighed off some staff members and film fans were
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unsure what was gonna happen with it. So Martin Scorsese,
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Steven Spielberg, and Paul Thomas Anderson all showed up to
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the Warner Brothers office and pretty much demanded they don't
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touch it nice and as it's still on the air.
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So to it worked and.
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They committed to like doing some on air stuff and programming.
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So I mean, like they didn't just sort of show up.
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They put their money where their mouth was. And that's
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great because I think, you know, yeah, you know, I
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remember the official reason of getting rid of film structure
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that was too niche, and it's like, well, the point
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of streaming and cable TV before it is that there
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was supposed to be a place for niche, right there
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was supposed to be like narrow casting was supposed to
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be a reality where you didn't have to like air
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the kind of programming that a gajillion people were gonna
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watch as long as you gotta really focused, you know,
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you know, dedicated audience that was smaller.
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But those are the first things to go a lot
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of times and until.
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Somebody, until they get are reminded, hey, no, this actually
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matters and it's important, and you're even if you weren't
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making money on this, it is it is important to
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your brand as somebody that presumably cares about, you know, movies,
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that you keep this thing alive.
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Yep.
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Yeah, So yeah, I'm glad that we still like Even
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though I can't personally at this time support Turner Classic movies,
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I try to support them how I can. I buy
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a lot of their books and you know, try to
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throw money at them the way I can. And if
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they ever do make it so I can just get
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Turner Classic, I will do that.
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Yes, buy tons of copies of Hollywood Pride in the meantime,
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and that'll really show me mean business.
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Yeah, it's like, I.
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Don't know, for some reason, some bookstore in Milwaukee just
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sold fifty copies of Hollywood Pride. Just give them way
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us stocking stuffers. All right, So for those of you
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listening today, so as you probably know, the Shameless Picture
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Show has been doing a Christmas episode every year since
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we started. It wasn't an intentional thing that we knew
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said we were gonna do. It just kind of became
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a trend.
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I just love Christmas movies.
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I do too, and I think our very first Christmas
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episode was a very weird one because we did a
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double feature of The Family Stone and Black Prisons Christmas.
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Because so the general rule of this show, Alonzo is
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when we have when it was just me and Nick
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and then now I still do the same thing when
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we have guests, I try to curate it where one
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person in the conversation has to have not seen the
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movie I see. So Nick had never seen Black Christmas,
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I'd never seen Family Stone. It was a weird double feature.
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If you want to give me a serial killer in
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the Family Stone, I think I could sign off on that.
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Yes, actually that I would watch that reimagining.
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So it's Sarah Jessica Partner's character.
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So ever since then, we've been doing a Christmas episode
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and we've had some doozies. We've done some great classics
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like Christmas and Connecticut, and then we've done things like
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Santa with Muscles. Anything is on the table. My favorite
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one though, is a very brady Christmas where we had
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a good friend of mine, who is a pro wrestler,
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and Brady Bunch of Story on the air to talk
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about it. Okay, but this year I wanted to do
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something a little bit different. Awonzo, you wrote this fantastic
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book and then revised it called have Yourself a Movie,
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Little Christmas. I don't know why I'm showing it off
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because no one's gonna see the video for this, but
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I'm showing it off anyways. And funny enough, before the
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revised version came out, I had your original copy in
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my Amazon cart and I was I was actually gonna
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buy it this year, and then I thought that you
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did the revised version, so I was like, well, perfect,
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I can get that one. So once I saw that
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you because I saw on Instagram that you were just
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asking if anyone had a movie or Christmas podcast that
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they can come on and talk about it.
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Just yeah, felt the movie.
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Is Christmas books, you know, cultural history. Please ask me,
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and thank thankfully you did.
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And so the the the the the episode change because
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me and Nick were like talking about different Christmas movies
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that we can do. I love it any Christmas Carol adaptation,
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so I thought maybe we could do something with that.
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But this just kind of made everything make sense. So
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what we're going to do in this episode, Well, first
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I want to talk about your book, and then the
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ultimate goal is to transition into a general discussion of
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Christmas films, what constitutes a Christmas film, and also I
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want to talk about the way that Christmas films have
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become so popular and the Hallmark and Netflix and Lifetime
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of it, all the formulas, you know, just kind of
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have a free wheeling discussion. So sure before we move
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on to that, though, I want to ask why Christmas.
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Well, you know, my joke answer has always been, if
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you ever want to become the expert in something, pick
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a field that nobody else was particularly interested in being
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the expert in. But no, I've always loved Christmas and
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I've always been a movie obsessive, So it was sort
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of inevitable that I would kind of like pair those
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two things. And when I put out the first book
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in twenty ten, I mean, I don't think that Christmas
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movies quite occupied the space in the public imagination that
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they have now. It seemed like a more kind of
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outlier idea. There weren't really any There were a couple
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other books on the subject, but they really just focused
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on you know, White Christmas and Miracle on thirty fourth
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Street and like the really sort of obvious canonical classics.
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And there certainly weren't any Christmas like devoted podcasts or
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Christmas movie devoter podcasts, whereas nowadays you will find tons
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of that stuff. And so, yeah, I kind of feel
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like I was maybe part of a building wave of
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people who wanted to talk about this subject, who get
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really excited about Christmas movies maybe watch them in the
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off season even But yeah, it was just kind of
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a subject that I found interesting and it didn't seem
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like there were other books on that topic out in
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the world, so I thought I would tackle it.
256
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.639
So when you first started writing this book, like what
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came first? Or did you obviously you had the idea,
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but were you just like compiling lists? Were you writing
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about things as you thought of them? Did you have
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to start like finding the nooks and crannies that you
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might have missed, Like when you're writing a book like this,
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how did you begin? Oh?
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Yeah, I mean all of those things happened at one
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point or other. You know, I kind of started with
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I had been a feature writer at magazines and newspapers
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for quite a while by the time when I was
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doing the first book, So over the years I had
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been tasked to do different like write a list of
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I don't know, Christmas movies that people don't think of
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as Christmas movies or Christmas horror movies or whatever. So
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I kind of had in the back of my head
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like that, I knew there was enough stuff out there that.
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Would merit a whole book.
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You know that that obviously, just covering the classics was
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going to be a big chunk of it, but also
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talking about Metropolitan or The Line in Winter or Eyes
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Wide Shut, you know, and why those are Christmas movies
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was you know, we're also going to to be a
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big part in it.
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So when I pitched the.
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Book originally, I learned that you have to sort of
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you have to submit a sample chapter, and I knew
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that the chapters were going to be divided into categories
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by you know, kinds of films, because I think what's
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cool about Christmas movies is whatever kind of film you like,
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it does butt up against Christmas somewhere along the on
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the way. So if you want to see a documentary
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about Christmas or a horror movie, bout Christas or a
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musical about Christmas, like it's there, and my agents, well,
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00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.840
do give them the kids chapter first, because that's always
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a big selling point. You know, parents are trying to
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find stuff to show to their kids and you know,
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sort of looking for family friendly entertainment.
294
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Yea da. So that was the first chapter I did.
295
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So I sort of sat down and kind of mapped
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out what I thought would work. And you know that
297
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.559
neither volume of this book is in any way encyclopedic,
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Like there's so much stuff that I couldn't begin to
299
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try and say like I got them all because eventually
300
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somebody's like, oh.
301
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You what about you know, Jaws four?
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You know or whatever, and so it's like, okay, yes,
303
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:06.039
I forgot that one. So uh So it's a very
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subjective book, like these are films that I either really
305
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like or at least understand that they're a big enough
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deal that that I needed to talk about them, you know.
307
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So for the kids chapter, for example, like I had
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not seen Danny Boyle's Millions, but I had heard that
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it was a really good Christmas movie, that it was
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kid friendly, So I.
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Watched that Boyle made a kid friendly movie.
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He did I know it's shocking people don't know that one,
313
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but it's it's really lovely. I had not seen Prancer.
314
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The big one was I had never seen Home Alone before.
315
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Oh really that is because I'm old.
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You know.
317
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So when the when the first Home Alone was in theaters,
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I it was I had already graduated from college, so
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it just was not a movie that was on my radar,
320
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and I became this phenomenon.
321
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At the time. I was just like, all right, well,
322
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this kid's movie is really packing him in. That's nice.
323
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But I just it was never a thing that I
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grew up on, so I had just never had a
325
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reason to go watch it until starting to research this book,
326
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and I was like, I guess I need to watch
327
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.279
this now. And and so I feel like I have
328
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somewhat different relationship than these sort of generations of people
329
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.119
who like saw it when they were seven, and it
330
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just became like, you know, this imprint y movie that
331
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they watched a bunch when they were kids and they
332
00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:24.759
still love now. Last Christmas, I went to a screening
333
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in New Jersey in this big like Arts Center auditorium
334
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where Macaulay Culkin spoke afterwards, and it was really wild
335
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.079
to see a movie with an audience that was that
336
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jazzed and that clearly so well versed in it. You know,
337
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.519
it was like it was like going to Rocky Horror,
338
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Like they just really were super super psyched to be there.
339
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.480
So yeah, So the whole thing of writing the book
340
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:51.640
was like, I love these movies I want to talk
341
00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:53.400
about I know, I want to talk about Desk Set.
342
00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:54.960
You know, it's a movie that I've loved for years
343
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and it has a Christmas element to it. But I
344
00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:00.519
was constantly being introduced to new movies that I did
345
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not know about.
346
00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:02.839
Like another thing that changed.
347
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.559
You know, between twenty ten and twenty twenty five when
348
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.640
I wrote the first edition, there really wasn't streaming yet.
349
00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:11.480
I was still getting Netflix DV in the mail.
350
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.640
You talk about that in your preface on in They There.
351
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.480
Yeah, but like you know, I was still going to
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00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:21.440
physical video stores to check stuff out. And I remember
353
00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.200
going to a Rocket Video which used to be over
354
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.480
on Librea, And you know, after about the third or
355
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.640
fourth time where I was leaving with an armful of
356
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.319
you know, Christmas Carol adaptations or whatever, finally one of
357
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:36.519
the corks was like what are you working on?
358
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.119
What are you researching? And so I told him and
359
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:40.759
he goes, oh, well, then you need to watch The
360
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.759
Silent Partner again, a movie I did not really know much.
361
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.039
About it all I'd heard the title, but turns out, yeah,
362
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.079
really great Christmas crime caper.
363
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:49.400
You know.
364
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:54.200
So the process of doing it definitely introduced me to stuff,
365
00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:58.279
and it's been an ongoing process, Like there are classics
366
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:00.440
in this new edition that I didn't know about in
367
00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.200
twenty ten but have since become familiar with, and so
368
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.880
now I'm very excited to throw them in now.
369
00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:11.559
That's like I had a similar experience doing this podcast
370
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:16.839
where I love these like film oriented art projects or
371
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:21.559
research projects where you end up kind of it's impossible
372
00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.680
not to end up in these little communities where there
373
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.799
are other people who are so passionate about film that
374
00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.920
they're throwing you these Oh have you ever heard of
375
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.519
this one? Have you ever seen this one? And right,
376
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.039
it's an opportunity to break out of that like algorithm
377
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.559
bubble of well you liked this, therefore this exactly.
378
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:42.839
Yeah, No, I'm sure for the pod.
379
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:44.880
For the theme of this podcast where it's all like
380
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.519
we're seeing something for the first time, I'm sure all
381
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.519
of the Oh but have you seen you know, comes
382
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:50.680
out of the woodwork.
383
00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:55.359
You know, Yep, yeah, no, absolutely, And it's it's daunting
384
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.759
but also still exciting that there's so much stuff out
385
00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:01.680
there that I'll just never be able to see every I.
386
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.880
Read an interview with Peter Bogdanovitch that came out in
387
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.440
the mid seventies. I think it was like when he
388
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.640
was promoting at Long Last Love and they they said
389
00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:13.160
something like they had they had a round number of
390
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.920
like how many Hollywood movies had been made at that point,
391
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.279
and like how many of them Peter Bogdanovich had watched.
392
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:21.240
I thought, oh, my god, that must have.
393
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.880
Been like the last moment where it was even remotely doable,
394
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.559
achievable to see like that, like the majority of them
395
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.200
films that existed, you know, because by the time you
396
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:35.440
get any later than the you know, by the time
397
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:37.119
you get to even the end of the seventies, if
398
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:39.000
you start throwing in like all of the kind of
399
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.880
like psychotronic drive in you know, grindhouse y stuff, and
400
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.039
then of course more as as more and more films
401
00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:50.119
from around the world start becoming available to American viewers, Yeah,
402
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:55.079
it just becomes this impossible thing. My niece is almost
403
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.119
thirty years younger than I am, and when we talk
404
00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:02.000
about film, like, she's you know, a voracious viewer and
405
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.000
and and you know, really interested in films and like
406
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.319
studied film and is.
407
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.480
A screenwriter and stuff.
408
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.759
But but even like what the the avalanche of stuff
409
00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.359
she's got to deal with is so much larger than
410
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.680
what my avalanche was when I was her age.
411
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:17.720
It's like, yeah, I get it.
412
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.160
It's you have to sort of pick and choose now
413
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:24.839
or maybe like compartmentalize your genre because otherwise it's just
414
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.880
there's just too much's you're always going to be you know, Uh,
415
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.119
some movie I saw your they said recently, you're going
416
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.480
you're you're you're fighting a swamp with a tea spoon.
417
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:36.400
Yeah.
418
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.559
I remember, uh hearing on a podcast at one point
419
00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.160
that uh, film critic Drew mcweeney was talking about when
420
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.039
he was doing his Eighties all Over podcast, which Nick,
421
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:49.799
I don't know if you're familiar with this podcast, but
422
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:54.759
the concept of it is the to watch every major
423
00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.640
released film in the eighties month by month.
424
00:21:58.359 --> 00:21:58.960
Oh wow.
425
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:01.559
And I think he talked about where at the early
426
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.960
part of the eighties is like, okay, this is relatively doable.
427
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:09.519
But then he said, around nineteen eighty five it just
428
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.519
drastically went up the amount of movies and it's just
429
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.839
been growing every single year since.
430
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.839
Well, it should kind of map it on to the
431
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:23.960
change in technology. You can see the vhs just that
432
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:24.839
you know.
433
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.599
Yeah, I was gonna say, and a lot of these
434
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.000
sort of smaller companies that happened because of home video.
435
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.000
You know, your your restaurants and you're like, I don't know,
436
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.039
you know, not new world because they've been around, but like,
437
00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.160
there were a lot of smaller companies that would.
438
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.000
There was a whole there was a moment in the
439
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.319
eighties where you could make a movie and your entire
440
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.119
budget would be the pre sales of the video rights.
441
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:54.480
Yeah, but then unfortunately what happened was there were so
442
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:58.160
many movies on video that nobody wanted to rent that
443
00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:59.400
that well dried up.
444
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.720
And then it old a bunch of these companies.
445
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:04.079
You know, the the the like Film Dallas and you
446
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:07.279
know these little indie distributors that that were you know,
447
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.519
uh uh sinecom you know that were happening in these
448
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.799
But yeah, you're right, it's tied to technology, and so
449
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:19.039
I'm the the the amount of distributors increased, and so
450
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:22.319
of course the amount of movies increased. So yeah, it's
451
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.880
good luck on him, you know, trying that that's just
452
00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:27.039
one of those projects you hear about.
453
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:31.039
You go, that's really cool, but it's not me.
454
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.480
That's just too much. Like I. I I create little
455
00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.759
projects for myself and I I had realized that the
456
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.599
filmmaker Steven Soderberg was kind of a blind spot for me.
457
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.480
So I was like, Okay, I'll start I'll start working
458
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:45.920
through his films and I looked up how many films
459
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.559
he's made. Is like, oh, well, ship, this is gonna be.
460
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:49.519
It's gonna be.
461
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:52.200
That's not It's not like saying, oh, I'm going to
462
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.440
dig into this Terrence Mallet guy. It's like Soderberg, is
463
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.319
he he likes he likes to be working.
464
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.359
Yes he does. But one thing I want the touch
465
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.000
on over your book is that I love about it
466
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:06.119
is well one I also like that you you kind
467
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:09.000
of gave me a little road map because I myself
468
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:11.319
had decided that for my ten year anniversary of this
469
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:13.720
podcast that I wanted to write a book. And the
470
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.960
plan that I had made for myself was very similar
471
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.960
to your plant, how you wrote this, like we're have
472
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:22.839
created a sample chapter and things like that, so I'm
473
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:24.960
on the right path. So I feel good about that.
474
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.559
But what I like so much about this is because
475
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:30.720
I feel like a lot of cinema fans, we all
476
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:35.160
like reference textbooks. We like book We like books that have,
477
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.640
you know, a bunch of movies listed in it and
478
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:41.920
a little blurb like I am. I love Leonard Malton,
479
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:44.880
He's my guy. He's one of my dream guests on
480
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.359
this show. But one thing that I think you do
481
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.920
that's very smart in your book is the fact that
482
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.039
you have it broken up in the chapters. I like
483
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.960
that you give So let's go chapter one, which is
484
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.519
with the kids jingle belling Christmas movies for kids. I
485
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.960
like that you write a little bit about what you're
486
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:06.000
going to be exploring in this section, as opposed to
487
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.839
just a you know, like the Psychotronic Film Guide, which
488
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.680
is like, here's a bunch of weird fucking movies with
489
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:12.240
no context whatsoever.
490
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.599
You're makes the joke like notice how that all these
491
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:17.720
guys always start with Evant and Costello meet.
492
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:24.000
So I appreciate that you you give that information, you
493
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.759
give some context so then it feels curated. It's not
494
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.839
just here's a bunch of crazy Christmas movies, because you
495
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.160
probably could have done that, but well, I.
496
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.039
Mean, I think the thing is like they're they're all
497
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.039
Christmas movies, so you're all already kind of in a
498
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:42.000
kind of subcategory for a lot of people. So then
499
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:44.039
you have to sort of parse out what the sub
500
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:45.799
subcategories are inside of that.
501
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.519
Mm hmm. And then you also touch on some films
502
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.880
that I really like, like I I love that you
503
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.799
have The Holdovers in here, which was kind of a
504
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.119
it it fantastic word of mouth on that film, like
505
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.079
it kind of it started off in theaters and I
506
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.559
heard a couple of people talking about it, but it
507
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.640
just kept steam rolling the longer was in there. You
508
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:10.720
had the documentary I Am Santa Claus in there, which
509
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.640
I also really love. I appreciate you gave I appreciate
510
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:17.599
you gave some love to Frederick Frederick Wiseman, which my
511
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.480
buddy Andrew is one of the biggest Frederick Wiseman fans
512
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:23.720
I've ever known, So he's gonna be ecstatic that we
513
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:25.319
are name dropping him on the podcast.
514
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:25.680
Yeah.
515
00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:28.039
No, I was thrilled to be able to talk about
516
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:31.480
that one. And it's funny on Deck the Hallmark brand
517
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:33.720
and I were doing this twenty five weeks of Christmas thing.
518
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.200
This was god how many four or five years ago
519
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.480
now where we went through it was right for the holidays,
520
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:44.480
and we would trade weeks where I would make him
521
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:46.400
watch something he'd never seen, and he would make me
522
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.319
watch something that either I hadn't seen or didn't like,
523
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.400
but he did, and so you know, we had to
524
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:53.799
he was going to defend it. Then you know, we
525
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:55.559
had to talk about it. And so you know, he's
526
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.920
making me watch up like Jonathan Taylor Thomas and I'll
527
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:02.319
be home for Christmas, you know, and the polar expressed
528
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:04.680
and whatnot. But I got to I got him to
529
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:06.920
watch The Store, which I was like, all right, Brin,
530
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.000
we're watching a Friendrick Weisemer movie next week.
531
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:10.839
But you're lucky. It's one of the short ones.
532
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.160
Yes, that was so just a little aside. My my
533
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.200
friend Andrew he I told him that Frederick Wiseman was
534
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.079
a filmmaker that I was familiar with, but I had
535
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:22.799
not had a lot of experience because it was also
536
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.160
kind of hard to see his films for a little while.
537
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.200
It was now they're all on Canopy, Yes, and he's.
538
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.200
Getting a new box set coming out to Yes. But like,
539
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.480
Andrew was such a such a big die hard. He
540
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.279
was like ordering like DVD rs from Frederick Wiseman's website
541
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:43.400
that he just burned himself. And so when he told me,
542
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:44.920
he's like, I want you to come over and watch
543
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.559
one of his films, and I was like, cool, Like
544
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:49.119
we could, we could do that, And he was like
545
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:51.759
running me through the run times of some of these films.
546
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:55.279
Some of them are multi hour documentaries. He's like, but
547
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.279
don't worry, we'll start short. We'll start short. We'll start
548
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.200
with the Hospital, which is only like an hour and
549
00:27:59.200 --> 00:27:59.960
a half, thankfully.
550
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.440
But yeah, I mean, look, I love Ex Libris and
551
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.400
you know, City Hall, but but the Store I think
552
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.279
is a really good place to start because it's it's
553
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.680
it's under two hours, and it's also I mean, it's
554
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.400
about the Neeman Marcus flagship store during the Thanksgiving Christmas
555
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:17.920
season of nineteen eighty two, and who doesn't want to
556
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.400
watch that?
557
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:22.880
Like, honestly, I do like it's that that sounds, it's
558
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:27.759
I love little snapshots and history. And then so as
559
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:29.559
I said before, me and Nick have been doing this
560
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.400
podcast for a while, and I feel like over the
561
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.160
last span of nine years we have me and Nick
562
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.279
have waxed philosophically quite a bit about what is what
563
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.519
constitutes a Christmas movie, And I know for myself my
564
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.480
definition has changed over time. I actually have a list
565
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.079
on letterbox that I constantly refer back to. Originally was
566
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:57.960
titled stealth Christmas Movies movies that aren't technically Christmas movies
567
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:01.640
but feature a tree in the background so I can
568
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.759
count it like something like that, like Trancers, which actually
569
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:06.160
is in your book funny enough.
570
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:10.559
Yes, Transfers has a punk band playing jingle bells. Come on,
571
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:10.960
it's not.
572
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.359
Just fair enough. But that was gonna that was gonna be.
573
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.000
Where I wanted this conversation to start is in in you,
574
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:23.119
in your mind what constitutes a Christmas movie.
575
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:27.359
I'm not really doctrinaire about this, like, you know, apart
576
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.559
from being very clear that Diehard is a Christmas movie
577
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:31.480
and I will book.
578
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:32.480
No discussion otherwise.
579
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:37.359
I don't, you know, I'm pretty easy, you know, like
580
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.799
if it's said at Christmas, if Christmas somehow matters to
581
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.920
the plot, I think it's a Christmas movie. And you know,
582
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.319
if it's not one for you, fine, don't watch it.
583
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:50.680
You know, but you know, I.
584
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.279
Think that there's no hard and fast rule.
585
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:55.400
I mean, some people are like, oh, if we don't
586
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.640
talk about, you know, the meaning of the holiday, or
587
00:29:57.640 --> 00:29:59.720
if we don't have a scene where I don't know
588
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.319
a t he gets lit or something.
589
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:02.400
You know.
590
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.079
I think that in the broader sense, much of what
591
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.359
we think of as what we want to see in
592
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.119
a Christmas movie is I think very much out of
593
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:14.799
you know, Christmas, Carol and Beyond is the idea of
594
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:19.400
the redemption arc, the idea of characters discovering their best selves,
595
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.759
characters reaching out to family or community and kind of
596
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.960
becoming part of you know, that family and community is
597
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.839
after maybe some period of there having been friction or separation.
598
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:32.519
You know.
599
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.079
I've always joked that Ebenezer Scrooge, George Bailey, and Kevin
600
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.319
McAllister are all kind of on a similar arc.
601
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.119
You know.
602
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:42.079
They they they they they're they're angry about, you know,
603
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.119
where they are and what they have. They're given this
604
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.279
glimpse of an alternate, you know, version of their lives,
605
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:50.440
and they come to really appreciate, you know, the people
606
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:53.160
around them, and so, you know, I think when people
607
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.759
talk about Christmas movies, very often that's the story they're
608
00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:00.880
looking for, or some version of that, whether it's you know, uh,
609
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:05.279
you know, James Kahn learns to believe in Santa Claus.
610
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:06.440
You know, or or.
611
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:11.000
You know, Natalie Wood learns to believe in Santa Claus. Whatever,
612
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:13.759
you know, whatever the version of that is that you
613
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:18.200
find satisfying. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of different ways
614
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:20.160
to go in that. But like you know, Icewead Shut
615
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.799
is absolutely a Christmas movie. I only just recently. I
616
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:24.160
don't know how I missed this because the guy made
617
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.000
it like twelve years ago, but somebody made a super
618
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:27.960
cut of every Christmas.
619
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:30.920
Tree in Eyes Wide Shut, and there's so many of them.
620
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:32.039
There is a.
621
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:36.720
Hallmark movie level of holiday decorps in your face in
622
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.480
that movie, and every scene but the orgy, and you know,
623
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:43.079
Kubrick knows what he's doing and clearly did it on purpose.
624
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.480
I have not seen Eyes Wide Shut since it came out.
625
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:49.160
But when you said that in the beginning, and I'm like,
626
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.039
do I remember the same movie I watch?
627
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:54.799
I watch it, Yeah, no, believe me.
628
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:56.960
You go back and looking like, oh my god, Oh
629
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.839
my god, there's so much Christmas in this movie. And
630
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.279
I think that you know, a thing that you find
631
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.480
filmmakers doing with Christmas is Christmas is sort of like
632
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:10.200
this pure white sheet. It's a pure white snow drift.
633
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.319
You know, it's one of the five one of the
634
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.319
last things in the culture that we think of as
635
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:18.599
being innocent and about love and about peace and goodwill
636
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.440
and and you know, understanding and community and all that stuff.
637
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.480
And so if you are planning, if you have a.
638
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.880
Movie that's about somebody robbing a bank on Christmas or
639
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.720
about a serial killer on Christmas, then it just sort
640
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.960
of is is it's a vivid counterpoint to what is
641
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.599
supposed to be this sort of gentle, sweet time of
642
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:40.559
year where you know, humanity is at its best. And
643
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.200
I think Kubrick is using that as a way to
644
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.160
sort of show this marriage and trouble. This you know,
645
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:47.839
this is a time they're supposed to be have, families
646
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.880
coming together, and this is about this couple sort of
647
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:55.440
working their way through these erotic obstacles and and you know,
648
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.680
their desires that they have never you know, communicated to
649
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:00.680
each other. And so the fact that they're doing that
650
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.319
at Christmas time is just this sort of reminder of
651
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:05.880
like this is this is not where you're supposed to
652
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.720
be right now. You're supposed to be at home and
653
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:08.880
for the at the hearth.
654
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:09.279
You know.
655
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:14.759
No, that's that's that's That's kind of where I've started
656
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:18.640
going with with my definition of what's a Christmas movie.
657
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:21.000
Like I'll be the first smit. When Nick and I
658
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.920
did our die Hard episode, I was just trying to
659
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.640
be a contrarian and trying to find reasons for it
660
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.440
not to count because I was just sick of that argument.
661
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:33.319
But the more I've gone on, I've I'm kind of
662
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:36.359
at the point of where you're at. Like like when
663
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:39.680
I started my crop, my my stealth Christmas movies list,
664
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.960
and it's got stuff on there like Cobra or Savage Harbor,
665
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:46.720
where like Christmas Is or like The Brutalist. There's a
666
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.079
Christmas tree in one scene of The Brutalist, So I
667
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:50.559
throw it on that list because.
668
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:52.960
But no, I remember that scene. I believe me.
669
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.799
I see a Chris Treen movement and the hairs on
670
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:57.400
the back of my neck of like, oh God, I
671
00:33:57.559 --> 00:33:57.880
add this.
672
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.000
I have to say. Though The Brutalist had the same
673
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.599
production designer as Carol, so like she really knows how
674
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:04.000
to make vintage Christmas.
675
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:05.079
There we go.
676
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.760
But so my that was like I created that list
677
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:11.719
as a way to include everything that I didn't know
678
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.079
if it was actually a Christmas movie, like Star Trek
679
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.960
Generations and stuff like that. But then as I've gone on,
680
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:20.719
I've realized that there are that anything that's got a
681
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.880
Christmas tree, a Christmas song, my personal opinion is a
682
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:26.280
Christmas movie. But I break it up in the two categories. Now,
683
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.440
is it a Christmas movie that I have to did
684
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:30.400
I want to watch during Christmas? Or is it just
685
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:34.039
a christmavie. I can watch it anytime, Like I will
686
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:38.960
watch Moonstruck anytime, even though that is a Christmas movie.
687
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:44.280
But then something like a Christmas story that's very vibe
688
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.599
oriented of when I want.
689
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.760
To watch that, that's got a cell by date now
690
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:53.960
you know. For example, I used to work for Outfest
691
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.000
here in Los Angeles and they started doing a very successful,
692
00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:01.519
like filled up very quickly repertory screening of Anti Mame
693
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:07.159
every December. That movie has like two at best Christmas sequences.
694
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:09.599
There's a scene where she is working at Macy's and
695
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.320
messing it all up as a as a roller skating
696
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.280
like you know, a cashier. And then there's the next
697
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:18.880
scene where she comes home broke and dejected and having
698
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.960
lost her job, and they decided to start decorating for
699
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.639
Christmas to lift their spirits. In the musical, this is
700
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.440
where they sing, we need a little Christmas and then
701
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.159
like you know, she gets sort of swept off her
702
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:31.199
feet by this rich guy and then that's it. That's
703
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.719
the entire Christmas sequence of this whole movie. But it's
704
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.199
enough that it became a movie that a lot of
705
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.320
people clearly wanted to rewatch every December. You know, if
706
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.559
you want to rewatch John Waters's Female Trouble every December,
707
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.679
just for the scene at the beginning where Divine throws
708
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:48.519
the Christmas tree down in her parents.
709
00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:48.920
Like, I get it.
710
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.320
That counts, you know, Nick, how about you? How has
711
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.039
your definition changed over the years.
712
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:58.199
Well, I would back in our diehard days, similar to
713
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.719
your Christmas tree. For me, it was all always boked
714
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.159
Christmas lights. If you see boken Christmas lights anywhere, then
715
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:09.519
like that's what defines that. Alonso. I really liked what
716
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:14.840
you were talking about, the Redemption arc and the family
717
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:23.519
association and it started. The two categories that I started
718
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.599
chewing on after that was like the self redemption and
719
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.000
then the coming together the family. They're kind of two
720
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:35.880
different story arcs. And what I got chewing on is
721
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:40.840
we're heading towards this conversation about like the Hallmark and
722
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:45.880
netflixs and things where they're oh, so many of them
723
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:52.239
are round coms with like a Christmas like theme slapped
724
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:56.360
on top of it. And I think that's why those
725
00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:59.400
end up falling short for me, because I'm a guy
726
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:04.199
that loves around like no hate there. But it's when
727
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:08.159
I sit down to watch those round coms as Christmas movies,
728
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.679
it's not checking the Christmas box for me, even though
729
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.800
they have all of the visuals right, and I think
730
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:20.519
it starts to lose like you can see a cheap
731
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:25.119
production in it. Not because they're people with passion that
732
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.760
are trying to you know, they have this movie that
733
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.239
they have to make, but it starts to feel more
734
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:34.159
and more like the studio going, well, there's this segment
735
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.719
of people that we could get our views up on
736
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:42.519
if we target a Christmas movie towards them. And that's
737
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.119
where I think I start to get a little humbuggy
738
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:49.400
on the modern Christmas storytelling.
739
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.559
Yeah, you know, I did a whole other book about
740
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.840
homework movies with the like the homework guys, and didn't
741
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.360
really include them in this one. I sort of look
742
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.639
at standard Christmas movies on homework, Chris. This movies is
743
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:05.079
separate things entirely Hallmark. My joke about Hallmark is that it's,
744
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:06.960
you know, and these are movies that are made by
745
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:10.400
a greeting card company, and the same way that you
746
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:12.440
get a greeting card and in the mail you get
747
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:14.360
a Christmas card. It's got a beautiful snowy scene on it,
748
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.039
and you put it up on the shelf or on
749
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:18.159
the mantle, and every so often you're doing something else
750
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.480
and you look up and you see that beautiful snowy scene.
751
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:24.079
You think, oh, you know, and the Hallwark channel is
752
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.239
kind of designed the same way. You're you know, you
753
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:28.360
can watch them actively, but you could also sort of
754
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.320
be milling around doing other things and look up every
755
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:33.320
so often and oh, look, they're they're making cookies, or
756
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.920
they're they're having the town tree lighting, or they're.
757
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.519
You know, wrapping us. Like they have this checklist of
758
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:40.280
things they have to do in these movies.
759
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:42.559
So that you can at least have that five seconds
760
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:46.199
of going, oh, yeah, it's Christmas, you know, and in
761
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:49.039
some of the ones that aren't as successful, you can
762
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.239
go does this even have to be Christmas? Like the
763
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:54.800
rest of this plot you could totally build around any
764
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:56.840
time of year, Like, yeah, I just watched I watched
765
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.199
one last night about a glass blow or a a
766
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:03.400
novice glass blower who like winds up getting to work
767
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:07.159
for her like Idol, who's kind of you know, embittered
768
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.519
and and and you know, worried about you know, criticism
769
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:14.000
and whatnot, and like it barely feels like it needed
770
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.000
to be a Christmas movie, and it barely feels like
771
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:17.239
it needed to be a romance.
772
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:19.280
Like there's a love story in there that is so
773
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:20.000
tacked on.
774
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:22.960
These two people have barely spoken the entire movie and
775
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.760
then they kiss at the end. You're like, well about
776
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:28.639
the artist the glass blowing lady, Like who cares about
777
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:31.079
this other stuff? So yeah, but it just felt like
778
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.000
they they had the glass blowing script, They're like, all right,
779
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.679
we need love interest and Christmas Christmas.
780
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:39.920
But I think they're the better ones.
781
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.400
Though at least it feels more baked in, It feels
782
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:44.119
like it's part of you know, why we're all here?
783
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:44.360
Right?
784
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:45.199
Yeah?
785
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:48.400
Funny enough. So like I I so, I just recently
786
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:51.679
wrote an article for a magazine called The Physical Media
787
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:56.800
Advocate about my fondness even though I don't rate a
788
00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:58.920
lot of them very highly, but my fondness for the
789
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.440
Netflix Christmas cycle in their whole weird shared universe thing.
790
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:08.320
And I do talk about the Hallmark of it all
791
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:11.000
because you can't really talk about Netflix without talking about
792
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:15.800
the groundwork that Hallmark late. But then you're absolutely right
793
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:19.960
though some like when Hallmark first started off doing these things,
794
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.280
it was you know, they had been involved in entertainment
795
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.239
for a very long time. They and it was always
796
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.880
to sell cards. You know, they would make they would
797
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:32.559
produce original movies for every holiday for like ABC or
798
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.159
NBC whoever wanted at the time, as a way to
799
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:38.760
sell some more cards. But then when and.
800
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.519
Hallmark hall of fame was like yeah, classy TV. Yeah,
801
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:43.079
like they.
802
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:46.440
Won an amazing number of like Peabodies and Emmys, and
803
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:50.039
I mean you look at that period of their like
804
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.800
the stuff they were sponsoring this was like like the
805
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.159
original version of the Piano lesson before there was a
806
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:57.480
Netflix version. They did one for Hallmark Hall of Fame,
807
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.679
you know, like just you know Sarah right and Tall
808
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.199
with you know, Glenn Close and Christopher Walking like this
809
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:07.800
was this was as prestige as as network television got,
810
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:10.079
was the Hallmark Hall of Fame. Yeah, now, of course
811
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:12.280
we think of Hallmark as being a very different kind
812
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:12.880
of television.
813
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.039
Yeah, yeah, no, it's there. As I was researching this piece,
814
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:19.599
I just felt their history was very interesting. Also was
815
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:21.960
shocked when they started the Hallmark Channel was them and
816
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:26.079
Jim Jim Henson Company went in on it together, which
817
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:29.599
I thought was really fascinating. But and then, like you said,
818
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:33.440
it's kind of become this business now, not just for them,
819
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:39.199
but for lifetime for Netflix and I. I watched The
820
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:42.360
Princess Switch for the first time last night, and as
821
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.880
you were talking about this glass blowing Christmas movie you watch,
822
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:49.920
I was sitting here thinking, It's like, why did the
823
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.760
The Princess Switch had no reason to even be during Christmas?
824
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.519
I was thinking about the.
825
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.679
Entire plot and like, ye does not have to be Christmas?
826
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:00.360
Why does it have to be Christmas? And I've been
827
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.880
sitting here trying, like thinking about it. It's like, what
828
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:07.360
was the Christmas albument and I like Gun to my
829
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:11.400
Head and I just watched it last night. Granted that
830
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:13.880
was a little under the influence, but like, I just
831
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.320
I watched that and the sequel last night and I
832
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:19.360
was like, man, I have no idea why this has
833
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:20.960
to be during Christmas.
834
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:25.039
I'll tell you three is really fun if that Oh.
835
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.000
At this point, I've watched one and two and I'll
836
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:30.880
have to say just quick aside. So Netflix, their whole
837
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.599
thing for a lot for some of their films is
838
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:36.199
there's this shared universe amongst them where they will there
839
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:39.719
will be little bits and pieces and connective tissues. Characters
840
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:43.400
are popping in and out. In The Princess Switch, there's
841
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.960
really amusing scene where these two characters like, let's let's
842
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.440
get under a warm blanket and watch a Christmas movie.
843
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:55.559
So they're going through Netflix and they choose as Christmas Prince,
844
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:58.880
you know, their first big one. But then what's really
845
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:03.119
broke my brain last night is in the sequel, the
846
00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:05.800
Christmas Prince and his wife are characters.
847
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:07.960
It was like, yeah, they show up at the wedding
848
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:11.559
of the Princess sol Is that a documentary?
849
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:15.320
Yeah? It was like, isn't a scream stab situation, Like,
850
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:18.360
was this a documented historical event that they made a
851
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.719
movie and it nearly broke me?
852
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:23.960
Yeah, that's like the whole thing about how they talked
853
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:27.639
about Gilmore Girls as a show on Sopranos and Sopranos
854
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:35.519
as a show on Gilmore Girls, the corrobous totally Yeah. No, Yeah,
855
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:38.800
they had this whole like, oh, we're gonna wink and
856
00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:41.400
nod and sort of reference ourselves, but they didn't decide
857
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:43.800
how to do it. So yeah, in the first movie,
858
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:45.599
she's watching a movie about them. In the second movie,
859
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:47.639
those characters are in her world.
860
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:48.599
It's like, Okay.
861
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.119
The thing about I mean, like I think that that
862
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.199
Hallmark you know, was trying a bunch of different stuff.
863
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.119
It really wasn't until about like twenty fourteen that they
864
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.679
really sort of landed on this formula that was massively
865
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:04.800
popular and that they that has kind of dictated everything
866
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:05.679
they've done ever since.
867
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:07.440
You know, was the literal.
868
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.400
Sort of like big city Lady goes to small town
869
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:11.559
yea da da da dah, and and you know, they
870
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:13.639
they switched that up from time to time and do
871
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:14.400
it in different.
872
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.400
Ways, but that became the coin of the realm.
873
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:22.719
You know because of the success of this movie. Oh god,
874
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.079
it's one of the one of the Cannas Cameer Bret movies.
875
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:27.440
I forget what it's called, but anyway, the one where
876
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:31.280
she goes to Alaska and falls in love with Santa's.
877
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.679
Son basically, you know, vaguely familiar.
878
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:37.920
Yeah, it was Christmas.
879
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:43.000
I don't remember anyway, but you know that I think,
880
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:45.599
you know, the the onslaught of Hallmark movies, and then yes,
881
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:48.599
the wave of imitators from Lifetime in Netflix and b
882
00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:51.119
Et and up and whoever else, you know, Like, I
883
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.679
think that's even though I think those are sort of
884
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.639
operating on a separate plane as Christmas movies, I think
885
00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:01.199
they have put Christmas movies more the forefront of people's
886
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:03.639
minds at this time of year. You know, the Christmas
887
00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:06.920
movie itself is a phenomenon that was built by television.
888
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:11.199
You know, Miracle on thirty four Street and Christmas Connecticut
889
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.079
came out in the middle of summer, like they were
890
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:16.199
not tied to the season in any way. In fact,
891
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.039
Darryl Zannik, when he was running Fox specifically didn't think
892
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:21.360
enough people went to the movies at Christmas time and
893
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:24.199
made it a point that they not you know, release
894
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.440
Miracle on thirty four Street during the holidays, so it's
895
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:31.239
not really until TV happens, and like programmers are having
896
00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:35.480
to fill time and are like scheduling old reruns of
897
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:39.239
Christmas and Connecticut and you know, Christ's Carol adaptations or
898
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:41.480
what not to kind of fill the day. Is in
899
00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:45.480
December that people start thinking about, Oh, it's Christmas time,
900
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.400
and now I'm going to watch a Christmas movie. It's
901
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.239
going to be this cozy thing I do at home.
902
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:54.599
That's where that all starts. And then I think that
903
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:58.960
the next big historical, you know, impact thing is is
904
00:45:59.079 --> 00:46:03.639
Hallmark becoming this phenomenon, becoming this like ratings juggernaut for
905
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:08.800
a dying cable television industry and spawning these kind of knockoffs,
906
00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:12.360
and that, you know, kind of reminds people how much
907
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.480
that for a lot of people, Christmas movies become part
908
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:18.760
of how they celebrate the holidays. I started watching homework
909
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:20.760
movies because I just got really depressed during the twenty
910
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:22.599
sixteen presidential elections.
911
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:24.320
I just needed something that wasn't the.
912
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:26.679
News to watch, you know, And I think on that
913
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:30.880
level they delivery. They are this TV Xanax. You know,
914
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:36.079
that's very relaxing and calming and soothing, and so it's
915
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:39.000
not cinema, but it's you know, pleasure.
916
00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:44.639
You know that hits on something really interesting. So until
917
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:49.639
very recently, actually tomorrow was my last day, I've been
918
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.400
working for an arts nonprofit that does a lot of
919
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:57.960
music performance stuff. And coming out of COVID, we notice
920
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:03.000
in the industry this friend of people really only wanting
921
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:06.760
to go see tribute acts. They didn't want to go
922
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:10.360
see the big name groups. They were, you know, a
923
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:13.000
lot of them weren't touring. But even when they started again,
924
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:16.880
everybody was hesitant. But the tribute acts is what brought
925
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:20.400
everybody out. And I think, like how you described it
926
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:25.360
as as like Xanax, it was just something cozy that
927
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:31.400
they could do and that Netflix and Hulu is filling.
928
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:34.840
And then then I start to go, Okay, I was
929
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:38.639
being critical before about these films that are just kind
930
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:42.199
of slapped on, but they serve a purpose at the
931
00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:44.480
end of the day, which goes back to the like,
932
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:47.920
it doesn't have to be good for it to be
933
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.320
somebody's favorite movie. And and if it's and if that's
934
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:54.320
what you want to watch, if that's what makes your
935
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.880
holiday right on more power to you.
936
00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.519
Well, you know, it's always the joke about like you know,
937
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:01.719
at the end of the day, mom just needs her
938
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:05.519
blanket and her wine glass and you know, her Hallmark movie.
939
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:07.639
And I have to say, like a couple of years ago,
940
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.000
my husband got both of his hips replaced, and after
941
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:15.519
the first surgery, I you know, he was at home
942
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:17.679
and I was tending to him for most of the
943
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.400
day and then when he finally went to sleep, I
944
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:24.960
was watching a Hallmark movie and I was like, oh,
945
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:31.039
I get it now. My brain is not not not
946
00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:34.079
capable of handling anything more taxing than this, but this
947
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:36.920
is exactly what I need right now at the end
948
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.400
of this day where I've been doing nothing but like
949
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:42.159
running around and dealing with other people's stuff, you know.
950
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:45.079
So yeah, I think they absolutely sort of a function.
951
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:49.840
And you know, with the Netflix movies what I think
952
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.519
that there's an opportunity that they occasionally will take, but
953
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.719
they don't do it often enough, which is the idea
954
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:00.800
of Hallmark is TVG always Hallmark is very st you know,
955
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:02.440
stuff about what they can do and what they can
956
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.199
talk about, what they can show them, what they can't.
957
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:06.920
Yeah, because they're they're launtra from the beginning was family
958
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:08.000
friendly entertained.
959
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:11.199
Yes, absolutely, Like I mean even when they have like
960
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:14.280
movies about gay couples, now there will be a there
961
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.559
will be a section of their audience.
962
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.679
It's like these used to be movies I can watch with.
963
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.599
My grandchildren, even though the gay ones are as just
964
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:24.159
as tame and the kisses are just as dry as
965
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:26.639
they are on a standard Hallmark movie. But you know,
966
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:28.960
they just they flip out over this stuff because you know,
967
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:29.800
they're bigots.
968
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:31.960
But anyway, what I.
969
00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:35.039
Think Netflix can do and sometimes does do, is like
970
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:39.039
take these premises and like jus them a little bit
971
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:41.840
to make them a little more grown up. And another thing,
972
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.840
they have to be like smutty. But you know the
973
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:48.360
idea of like these couples in Hallmark movies that don't
974
00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:51.079
kiss until the very end, at least in a Netflix movie.
975
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:53.800
If you're watching something like Holiday, you know, it's like, no,
976
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:56.159
they're gonna have sex, yeah, and then you know, like
977
00:49:56.199 --> 00:49:58.280
maybe deal with the repercussions of that or whatever, but
978
00:49:58.360 --> 00:49:59.599
it's on the table, you know.
979
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.360
Yeah. Or there was one I watched last year. It
980
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:06.440
was called The Merry Gentleman which is essentially like the
981
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.760
Full Monty or Magic Mike, but as a Christmas movie,
982
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:14.400
and they decide to do a stripper review to help
983
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.760
save a small town bar. And I was like, oh,
984
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:19.079
and it was also the same year of something like
985
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.719
Hot Frosty and like, Okay, they're pushing it a little bit.
986
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.840
And the screenwriter who wrote Hot Frosty he knew exactly
987
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:27.840
what he was writing when he wrote.
988
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:31.039
He's actually a Hallmark vet, Like, yeah, inline, he's done
989
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:33.440
like The Santa Summit a bunch of stuff. But yeah,
990
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:35.920
like both of those movies, I thought, Okay, we're gonna
991
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:39.079
Netflix is gonna get a little spicy. Oh no, no, no, no.
992
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.840
The strippers in The Merry Gentleman keep their pants on, yes,
993
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.239
and they don't even do crowd work, Like I don't
994
00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:47.920
know how they're supposed to be making any money for
995
00:50:48.039 --> 00:50:50.599
themselves at alone the bar because they they come out,
996
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.000
they dance around, they take their shirts off and audio.
997
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:57.519
So this is not how any of this works, you know.
998
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:00.880
And I thought, come on Netflix, Like, you could air
999
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:03.840
The Married Gentleman with zero cuts.
1000
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:05.079
On Hallmark and it would be fine.
1001
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:08.239
Yes, Because Hallmark did finally break through to the dudes
1002
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:10.559
without their shirts on, you know, layer that they were
1003
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:13.760
not they were not passing for a long time. But yeah,
1004
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.079
that that was a that seemed like a perfect opportunity
1005
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:19.760
to like go do something a little bit more you know, risque,
1006
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:22.320
And it's so tame and so safe in such a
1007
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.559
way that it subverts what the movies even supposed to
1008
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:26.719
be about that it's like, well, then why is this
1009
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:30.039
on Netflix? You could have just Lifetime could show this,
1010
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:33.119
Hallmark could show this, Like yeah, you know, even if
1011
00:51:33.159 --> 00:51:35.559
you like had this movie that was this tame and
1012
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:37.920
then you make the deal with Netflix, like okay, well
1013
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:41.159
reshoots time we had, I gotta I gotta throw in
1014
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:42.679
a little you know, g string action.
1015
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:49.599
Yeah. Like that's like I think the this like the
1016
00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:53.119
the Netflix cycle, which like I keep you know, like
1017
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:55.000
I said, we have to you can't talk about Netflix
1018
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:57.079
if I'm talking about Hallmark. Like Netflix kind of took
1019
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:03.119
that Hallmark formula and ran with it, but not enough.
1020
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:08.559
I think they work best when they are hyper aware,
1021
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:11.719
Like I think that's why. I think that's why something
1022
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:15.119
like Hot Frosty caught on with people so much, because
1023
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:19.000
the film knew what it was like. All these movies
1024
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:24.119
know what they are, but you know, hot Frosty was
1025
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:28.079
trying to comment on that a little bit, uh, And
1026
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.679
I think that's when these films personally work the best
1027
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:35.599
for me, when they are playing within the confines of
1028
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.159
what makes these movies work or not work, depending on
1029
00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:42.119
your your taste for them. But you know, the your
1030
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:44.719
your tongue is in your cheek the entire time you're
1031
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:48.519
you're you're making it. And obviously we've been talking about
1032
00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:50.880
this topic for a little bit, Nick, what what inspired
1033
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:53.639
you want to talk about this topic, because like we've
1034
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:55.880
been doing Christmas weeks for a long time, we've actually
1035
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:57.559
surprisingly never tackled one of these.
1036
00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:05.239
Yes, so since I was very young, watching Christmas movies,
1037
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:08.719
no matter how bad they are, nine times out of
1038
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:12.320
ten will bring me to tears at the end. But
1039
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:17.480
it is a pattern I saw, and it's for the
1040
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:21.320
reason that Alonzo you were talking about earlier about that
1041
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:28.199
like that connection back to family, that connection back to
1042
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:32.719
something between the individual and what they were disconnected from
1043
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:36.519
that hits in so many of the Christmas movies that
1044
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.400
I grew up with in a way that I couldn't
1045
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:44.400
get from any other kind of storytelling. I have a
1046
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:48.760
very well say intense relationship with It's a Wonderful Life,
1047
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:51.800
where it was my favorite movie for a very long time.
1048
00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:55.199
I would watch it year round. It got me through
1049
00:53:55.239 --> 00:53:59.480
some hard times. But then as I got older, I'm like, oh,
1050
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.119
wait a minute, that Jimmy Stewart's character is kind of
1051
00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:06.000
an asshole in a way that I never saw when
1052
00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:10.039
I was a kid. So, you know, my relationship with
1053
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:14.519
that movie evolved too, but it never fails even if
1054
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:16.800
I'm just passively watching it when they get to that
1055
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:24.519
end scene waterworks Frandie Darling, Oh yeah. And and my
1056
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:30.679
curiosity with Christmas movies is, you know, we why is that?
1057
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:35.119
Why am I so susceptible to that? Why why does
1058
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:42.079
it speak to me so deeply? And as this surge
1059
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:46.639
of Christmas content is now like releasing like a fire
1060
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:51.719
hose every year on streaming services, like the the rate
1061
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:55.119
at which a Christmas movie will impact me like that
1062
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:59.199
is going down, but there are still plenty of good
1063
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:03.880
ones that do. And I have just this intense to again,
1064
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:08.280
there are bad Christmas movies that get to me, and
1065
00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:11.760
there are good ones that don't, but there like there
1066
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:15.639
is something about them in there that I'm deeply curious
1067
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:19.400
about why why I respond to it that way?
1068
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:21.639
I mean, I I think again that there is something
1069
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:25.039
about this notion that it's the magic of the season
1070
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:30.119
itself that will somehow inspire people to have that five
1071
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:33.400
minute conversation that they've just never had with, you know,
1072
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:35.880
the neighbor that they've been feuding with, or a family
1073
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:36.840
member they aren't.
1074
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:37.519
Talking to or whatever.
1075
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:42.159
And I think we all have those unresolved things in
1076
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:44.639
our lives of like, oh, I wish I knew why
1077
00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:48.559
this person you know ghosted me, or why this why
1078
00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:50.679
like you know, we used to be so close and
1079
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.159
now we barely talk and what's that about? And you
1080
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:55.719
think did I do something? Did they do something? Are
1081
00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:58.519
we both you know? And and and so I think
1082
00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:00.760
there's a there's a very deep seat desire a lot
1083
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:03.800
of people to sort of have that revelation and be
1084
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:07.719
able to do the thing that allows you to move past,
1085
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:10.280
you know, whatever that impasse is that that's getting in
1086
00:56:10.280 --> 00:56:13.280
the way of your relating to other people. And and
1087
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:17.079
Christmas movies I think really deliver that kind of story
1088
00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:22.199
with a real flourish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I said,
1089
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.920
I I did a whole book that was about Hallmark movies.
1090
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.480
But I do have quite a few Netflix titles in
1091
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:29.519
this one, because like I said, I think, I think
1092
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:33.320
Holiday is really great and funny.
1093
00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:35.800
Yeah, let it snow. I think it's a really good,
1094
00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:44.199
hard fun Yes it's And then like I'm sorry, no, I.
1095
00:56:44.119 --> 00:56:48.639
Was gonna say this one's not a Netflix movie, but Nick,
1096
00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:51.320
this one was. This is a more recent one that
1097
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:54.719
I did have a big emotional reaction to. It was
1098
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:59.800
on Hulu Happiest Season. Yeah, that one. That one made me.
1099
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:01.400
Yeah, that's okay.
1100
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:04.000
It's also really funny. It was also just really funny too.
1101
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:05.800
And that was actually that was supposed to open in
1102
00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:08.679
theaters but it was twenty twenty so it wound premiering
1103
00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:12.199
on Hulu instead and doing really well there. But yeah,
1104
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:14.559
I did get to see that projected last year for
1105
00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:15.960
the first time, which was exciting.
1106
00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:16.559
Yeah, and the.
1107
00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:18.719
Director was there and christ and Stewart and which the
1108
00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:21.480
cast member, so that that was really cool. But then, like,
1109
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:23.559
I think Netflix is also making some really good stuff
1110
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:27.079
for kids, like Klaus is great, and I really like
1111
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:32.000
Jingle Jangle and yeah, you know, the Christmas Chronicles movies
1112
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:34.800
are fun, so you know, they they kind of are
1113
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:37.840
you know, casting a net in their Christmas stuff, even
1114
00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:42.519
their series. They have a Norwegian series called Home for Christmas, about.
1115
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:43.719
A couple episodes of that.
1116
00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:47.280
I love that show. Last season three, I'm so excited.
1117
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:50.800
Is this this woman who is like, she's the youngest
1118
00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.119
of like three or four adult siblings and every year
1119
00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:54.639
at Christmas she's stuck down at the kids end of
1120
00:57:54.639 --> 00:57:56.920
the table because she's the only who's not married. And
1121
00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:00.159
so they all gather on December first for some know
1122
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:04.039
other kind of holiday event, and she says, oh, by
1123
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:05.800
the way, when we have Christmas dinner, I'll be here
1124
00:58:05.800 --> 00:58:08.840
with my boyfriend. And everyone's very excited, and it's a
1125
00:58:08.840 --> 00:58:10.559
whole thing. It's like and now she's got twenty four
1126
00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:13.360
days to find a boyfriend to bring with her to.
1127
00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:16.559
This dinner and it's a holiday exactly, yes.
1128
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:18.400
But it's like, but you know, yeah, so I love
1129
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.960
a fake fiance trope as much as anybody, But but
1130
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:23.079
it's not about that as much as it's about this
1131
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:25.760
woman sort of reckoning, well, why am I single exactly?
1132
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:27.000
And who is out there?
1133
00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:29.719
And now that I have this this ticking clock, maybe
1134
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:32.760
I'll like give somebody a shot that I wouldn't have normally,
1135
00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:35.119
And why is this such a big deal to my family?
1136
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:37.559
Why won't they drop it to the fact that I'm single,
1137
00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.920
So it's it's a lot happening all of this. Plus
1138
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:43.880
like Norway Christmas time is gorgeous and snowy, you know,
1139
00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:46.280
so uh, yeah, I'm a big fan of that.
1140
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:48.920
Yeah, that one I've not alreadyn heard of, So off
1141
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:52.559
to h I usually I don't subscribe to Netflix year round.
1142
00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:54.599
I usually only get it for a couple of months
1143
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:56.360
at the end of the year for not only for
1144
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:01.719
the Christmas cycle, but then to catch up on the
1145
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:05.639
stuff that I've heard about from their streaming service. But
1146
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:08.239
I think what I because, like I used to be
1147
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:10.760
a pretty big stick in the mud about these type
1148
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:14.679
of movies, but then, honestly around twenty sixteen to about
1149
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:17.679
the started in twenty sixteen, but it really hit me
1150
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:23.239
around around COVID where I was just really depressed. My
1151
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:26.719
wife was a fan of these movies, so she suggested
1152
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:29.599
that we watch a couple of them together, and I
1153
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.039
think we started with The Night Before Christmas, which is
1154
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:38.840
probably still my favorites of the Netflix Christmas movies, possibly
1155
00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:42.440
just because the first one that I saw Yes the
1156
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:47.760
Nights before Christmas. That one just really stuck with me.
1157
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:53.320
And it's kind of going back to what you were saying, Nick,
1158
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:56.119
where the movies don't always affect you in the same
1159
00:59:56.199 --> 00:59:59.639
way that they used to. But I almost feel like
1160
00:59:59.719 --> 01:00:05.280
it's this untapped vein where there are gems here. I
1161
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.800
just have to dig to find them. It's like going
1162
01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:10.440
through the five dollars bin at Walmart. I don't know
1163
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:11.519
what I'm gonna find.
1164
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:16.079
It was a film book that somebody had written point
1165
01:00:16.159 --> 01:00:18.519
you to the movies that are the most worthwhile.
1166
01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:20.440
What's the name of that book again, Alonso?
1167
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:25.679
Have yourself a movie Little Christmas? Yeah, and it's you know,
1168
01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:28.719
I again, this is all super subjective and is your
1169
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:30.920
favorite film might not be in there, And I apologize
1170
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.239
in advance, but I think that I don't know. I
1171
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:36.800
think if you like movies, you're gonna come across stuff
1172
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:38.679
where you either maybe had never heard of it, maybe
1173
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:40.920
never thought of it as a Christmas movie, never thought
1174
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:41.960
of it as the kind of movie you don't want
1175
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:43.400
to watch this time of year, and you know, you
1176
01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:44.719
might be pleasantly surprised.
1177
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:46.880
Yeah, and that's what I've been enjoyed by just by
1178
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:50.000
paging through it is like, oh, I remember hearing about
1179
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.760
this movie, but I didn't hear anything about it other
1180
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:55.400
than it existed. So it's like, Okay, there's a stamp
1181
01:00:55.440 --> 01:01:00.320
of approval of a taste maker that I respect. I
1182
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:03.119
at least it's something too as a way to move
1183
01:01:03.159 --> 01:01:06.360
it up the list a little bit, like perfect example,
1184
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.639
Arthur Christmas. I never had anything against it. I just
1185
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:10.599
hadn't heard anything about it other than it was a
1186
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:14.480
movie that existed. But both you and Leonard Malton seemed
1187
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:16.320
to like it, so now I have to watch it.
1188
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.639
Well all right, Yeah, No, that's definitely when they kind
1189
01:01:19.639 --> 01:01:22.039
of came and went, and I definitely try to like
1190
01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:25.079
champion movies that I feel like just went under a
1191
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:28.519
lot of people's radars. Last year, one of my favorite films,
1192
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:31.639
not just Christmas films, but films period of twenty twenty
1193
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:35.000
four was this movie called Christmas. Even Miller's point that,
1194
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:37.239
you know, premiere to the can Film Festival and then
1195
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:39.000
I think I have see didn't quite know how to
1196
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:42.440
market it, and so like I think when they put
1197
01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:45.840
it in theaters, people who you know, the art house
1198
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:48.199
audiences that would have most appreciated it. Probably saw the
1199
01:01:48.199 --> 01:01:51.199
title that the Hallmark movie, and the people who love
1200
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.159
that kind of thing and wanted to see something like
1201
01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:55.159
a Hallmark movie were put off by, Oh, what is
1202
01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:57.199
this movie? I don't know what to make of it,
1203
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:59.760
but they just Vinigar Syndrome just put out a blue
1204
01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:01.480
rat with IFC and it's uh.
1205
01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:06.639
Which is a weird sentence to say out loud, but.
1206
01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:09.519
Yeah, so it's really great and I hope that I
1207
01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:11.280
can you know, talk some people into seeing it, because
1208
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:13.840
I think it did it just it was missed by
1209
01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:14.280
a lot of people.
1210
01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:15.400
I think a lot of people missed.
1211
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:16.559
Uh.
1212
01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:20.880
Oh god, Well the Mats Michelson movie Writers of Freedom
1213
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:24.360
or whatever it's called. Uh sons, No, not sounds of antardy,
1214
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:27.239
you know, that's what was the show anyway. It's it's
1215
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:30.000
a movie where where he's like going after a biker
1216
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:31.639
gang that you think is responsible for the death of
1217
01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:31.960
his wife.
1218
01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:34.039
But it's also a Christmas movie.
1219
01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:35.440
Go figure.
1220
01:02:36.679 --> 01:02:40.159
Yeah, some of these Christmas movie descriptions have just been incredible.
1221
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:45.679
I'm still like, uh, thinking about the glass blowing.
1222
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:49.079
Like like what going back to what you were saying
1223
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:54.679
about COVID, like when the lockdown first started, Hallmark like
1224
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.559
overhauled their weekend program.
1225
01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:58.159
It's like, we're just going to show Christmas movies.
1226
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:01.079
Like you're all at home, you need some cozy We're
1227
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:03.400
just going to do like a forty eight solid hour
1228
01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:06.039
block of Christmas movies in March and April.
1229
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.119
And people tuned in like that.
1230
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:10.239
It was they they knew what they had, and the
1231
01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:12.880
audience was like, yes, please, this is what I need
1232
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:13.639
right now, you know.
1233
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:21.159
Yeah, I think what I've gotten out of this conversation
1234
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:28.000
is this idea that Christmas movies kind of have a
1235
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:35.440
unique way to talk about connection with with other people,
1236
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:40.480
with other humans, with ourselves, that that seems to be
1237
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:45.440
the magic note for me with Christmas movies.
1238
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:48.360
Yeah, I you know, I've talked about you know, there's
1239
01:03:48.039 --> 01:03:51.280
that book that came out some time ago that you know,
1240
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:55.400
people cite all the time called Bowling Alone, which is
1241
01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:57.480
about how, you know, in this country, we used to
1242
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.480
join club this, we used to be we to be
1243
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:03.960
parts of organizations or churches or bowling leagues or whatever
1244
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:04.360
it is.
1245
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:06.800
And with the advent.
1246
01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:09.199
Of television and with you know, everybody sort of you know,
1247
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:12.000
crushed under the yoke of late stage capitalism, like we
1248
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:15.320
don't go out and leave the house and interact.
1249
01:04:14.840 --> 01:04:17.320
With, you know, people that you know, we would get
1250
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:18.800
to know in that way.
1251
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:22.719
And I think Hallmark movies give you this version of
1252
01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:26.159
whether it's small town life or even if it's a
1253
01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:28.960
set in a city where people always have like a
1254
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:31.320
bunch of friends around and they're college friends and they
1255
01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:34.480
get together to quilt or to you know, like save
1256
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:37.119
the gazebo or whatever it is, and there's all this
1257
01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:40.400
sort of collective thing going on, which when you're sitting
1258
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:43.199
at home by yourself on your couch, is a comforting notion.
1259
01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:45.480
But I think it speaks to the fact that for
1260
01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:47.679
a lot of us, we don't really have that kind
1261
01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:51.320
of social network and real life in our lives, and
1262
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:54.280
especially I think of the holidays, we really feel the
1263
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:55.199
absence of that.
1264
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:56.039
Yeah.
1265
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:01.880
Yeah, like I watch these movies, and you know, I
1266
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:05.400
think because like my my family has gotten pretty small,
1267
01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:07.880
Like I've got extended family aunts and uncles, but they're
1268
01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:10.840
people that I'm not really close to. My my father
1269
01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:14.320
passed away years ago, as did my brother, So at
1270
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.639
this point it's my wife, it's it's it's me and
1271
01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:20.639
my wife and my mother. And but I'll look at
1272
01:05:20.679 --> 01:05:24.320
the connections that are in these films where it you know,
1273
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:27.440
something like I I just watched a movie just the
1274
01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:30.079
other day. It's one of Netflix's newer ones for this year.
1275
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:36.280
It's called a Merry Little X miss And and you
1276
01:05:36.320 --> 01:05:39.239
know it's about you know, this, this couple that's going
1277
01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:42.280
through divorce, but they are still connected to each other
1278
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:47.840
because of you know, yes exactly, and they you know,
1279
01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:52.639
they still share his his dad's because they all still
1280
01:05:52.679 --> 01:05:56.960
get along and they still have these traditions. And I
1281
01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:00.519
realized that I don't really have these traditions. And it's
1282
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:03.079
not from lack of wanting them. I just don't really
1283
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:06.880
have them. So it's almost comforting to see other people's traditions,
1284
01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:10.519
and in itself that has become a tradition. You know,
1285
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:13.079
my wife and I will get Netflix this time of
1286
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:16.719
year every year just so we can catch up on
1287
01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:19.320
the new couple Christmas. I don't want to say couple.
1288
01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:23.440
They actually release Metric fuck Ton every year now, but
1289
01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:25.360
we know, we we try to catch up on it,
1290
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:27.559
and especially because Netflix has gotten so expensive, we can't
1291
01:06:27.639 --> 01:06:28.920
keep that year year round.
1292
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:30.920
Well, I'll tell you if you really want to go
1293
01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:31.840
buck wild, here.
1294
01:06:32.360 --> 01:06:36.519
Hallmark Plus, which is Hallmark streaming service, just announced they're
1295
01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:40.679
doing a three months for ninety nine cents deal because
1296
01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:42.719
they're they want to they want to suck you in.
1297
01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:45.760
So that is a sweet, sweet deal. And they have
1298
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:49.199
had they have pretty much almost every single countdown to
1299
01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:52.119
Christmas movie going all the way back to like twenty
1300
01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:55.800
ten or whenever it was that it started, and and
1301
01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:57.800
like they and and you can actually find it in
1302
01:06:57.880 --> 01:06:59.320
menus broken down by year.
1303
01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:01.639
So yeah, go go.
1304
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:04.280
How much did they pay for this advertisement? No?
1305
01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:06.719
I just I've been telling people because like.
1306
01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:08.360
It's it is a fantastic deal.
1307
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:09.599
It's a wacky offer.
1308
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:11.960
And I think if you ever wanted to get homework cless,
1309
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:13.199
it would be for this time of year.
1310
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:16.159
And maybe do you know how in the Criterion channel
1311
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:17.599
they have Criterion twenty four to seven.
1312
01:07:17.639 --> 01:07:19.639
When you're like I can't make up my mind, I'm
1313
01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:22.880
just gonna see what's on, you know, they have an
1314
01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:26.480
ongoing Christmas channel where they just play things, you know,
1315
01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:29.440
so if you're overwhelmed by choice, you could just you know,
1316
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:31.559
tune into whatever's on at that moment.
1317
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:32.480
Perfect.
1318
01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:35.920
Now that we've been overwhelmed by choice, we're moving back
1319
01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:39.559
to push model platforms.
1320
01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:41.920
Yeah, there are a lot of whatever because we killed
1321
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:43.440
cable only to bring back Cable.
1322
01:07:43.639 --> 01:07:45.719
Yeah, I know. And then I'm at the point now
1323
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:47.519
where I'm just canceling as many of them as i
1324
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:50.360
can and just going back to watching discs and stuff
1325
01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:51.119
in the library.
1326
01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:52.039
Yeah.
1327
01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:56.239
All right, So as we start or wrapping wrapping up
1328
01:07:56.280 --> 01:07:58.960
a little bit, Alonzo. Look, so there's a lot of
1329
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:04.519
fantastic in this book. But if you had to leave
1330
01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:10.159
our listeners with one movie that you'd recommend them see,
1331
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:11.559
what would you say. It doesn't have to be a
1332
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:13.440
Netflix christ movie, doesn't have to be a Hallmark Just
1333
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:17.479
one Christmas movie that you want to champion. What would
1334
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:17.760
that be?
1335
01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:22.239
I'll say there is a there's an indie from a
1336
01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:22.840
few years back.
1337
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:25.920
I think it's really charming, and it's streaming like all
1338
01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:27.720
over the places on two B it's on a lot
1339
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:31.119
of the sort of ad supported channels called See You
1340
01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:36.560
Next Christmas, and it's about a couple who sort of meet,
1341
01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:40.000
fall in and out of love with each other over
1342
01:08:40.039 --> 01:08:43.239
the course of a series of Christmas parties that their
1343
01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:48.279
friends throw. And you know, I love the ingenuity in
1344
01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:50.119
a low budget movie. You're like all right, how do
1345
01:08:50.199 --> 01:08:54.239
we what's our reason for only having two locations? Will
1346
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:56.359
always be set during a Christmas party, So like the
1347
01:08:56.399 --> 01:08:58.720
first four are set in an apartment, and then the
1348
01:08:58.760 --> 01:08:59.960
last two were in the house.
1349
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:02.119
Perfect, And you.
1350
01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:04.399
Know, you have these two couple, these two people who
1351
01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:06.840
normally would never cross paths, but one of them is
1352
01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:10.079
like the husband's cousin and the other one is like
1353
01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:13.520
the wife's you know, college friend or whatever. And over
1354
01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:17.960
the course of these Christmas parties, you see their relationship
1355
01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:21.840
kind of evolve and and you know, come together, break apart.
1356
01:09:22.279 --> 01:09:24.600
But then also even like the other sort of friends
1357
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:27.920
who were there kind of go through that period of
1358
01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:31.079
being recent college graduates to then sort of over the
1359
01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:35.399
years becoming somewhat more settled adults. And the changes just
1360
01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:38.800
in things like the haircuts, you know, and and and
1361
01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:41.560
how they behave at parties and stuff. It's really, I think,
1362
01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:45.399
really ingenious. Christiane Weather wrote and direct that she plays
1363
01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:47.720
actually the wife of the couple that throws the parties.
1364
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:50.640
And it's just a film that I think is a
1365
01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:53.520
real sleeper. A lot of people probably missed, but it's
1366
01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:55.439
it's really charming. I think folks will enjoy it.
1367
01:09:55.840 --> 01:09:58.640
Okay, Nick, I know it didn't really have you come
1368
01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:01.319
in with the homework, but do you have a Christmas
1369
01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:02.319
you want to throw at someone?
1370
01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:06.640
You know? You all mentioned a lot of my favorites
1371
01:10:06.680 --> 01:10:09.119
from the last couple of years in the conversation, but
1372
01:10:09.439 --> 01:10:12.760
the one that is on my list that hasn't been
1373
01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:15.920
mentioned yet is Last Christmas is.
1374
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:19.800
Going to Be Nice stole from you. That one made
1375
01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:22.880
me ball my eyes out.
1376
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:28.600
It's set up very much like a typical round com
1377
01:10:28.720 --> 01:10:36.920
Christmas film, but veers slowly in a different direction that
1378
01:10:37.119 --> 01:10:42.760
was both surprising and pleasant, and it leaves you reflecting
1379
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:49.119
with all the warm fuzzies and and there's some incredible
1380
01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:58.039
scenes with Emma Thompson. Emma Thompson that, yes.
1381
01:10:58.439 --> 01:11:03.640
But the movie is also really funny until it's not right.
1382
01:11:04.760 --> 01:11:11.640
Also a small part by Michelle Yo, who I love. Yeah,
1383
01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:16.560
I did not remember that, so that would be my
1384
01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:17.199
my entry.
1385
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:20.960
All right, Well, since Nick took mine, I will I
1386
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.680
will go back to one that I did. Bree, I'm
1387
01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:26.079
gonna I'm gonna give two technically, but I'm gonna go
1388
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:28.920
back and highly recommend that everyone watch Happiest Season.
1389
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:29.840
Uh.
1390
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:32.960
It's probably one of my favorites. That I've seen in
1391
01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:36.479
the last couple of years. And then there's a line
1392
01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:39.840
with Dan Daniel Levy at the end that just me
1393
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:41.840
and my wife will just quote out of context all
1394
01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:45.199
the time when he's uh, trying to seem really butcher
1395
01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:49.439
and masculine weights, huh, and we just quote that all
1396
01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:51.920
the time. But then I just also want to throw
1397
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:57.560
some love to a movie directed by a filmmaker that
1398
01:11:57.640 --> 01:12:00.560
I really appreciate named Robert Tanell. He made a movie
1399
01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:02.520
called The Feast of the Seven Fishes.
1400
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:05.079
Oh Love that was close to being my pick.
1401
01:12:05.159 --> 01:12:07.039
So, yeah, the Feast of the Seven Fishes isn't a
1402
01:12:07.079 --> 01:12:09.520
good one. I actually had Robert to Know on this
1403
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:12.760
podcast to deep dive about his film Frankenstein and Me,
1404
01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:15.000
which no one but me has seemed to have seen.
1405
01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:19.920
But it's another movie that I cry my eyes out
1406
01:12:20.039 --> 01:12:23.960
over weirdly enough, But so those would be my two
1407
01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:27.520
picks would be the Feast of the Seven Fishes or
1408
01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:28.760
Happiest Season.
1409
01:12:28.880 --> 01:12:31.680
And crazily enough, I think the best Hallmark Holiday movie
1410
01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:35.000
is actually a Hanukkah film, a comedy called Round and
1411
01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:37.439
Round About. It's kind of a It's kind of a
1412
01:12:37.439 --> 01:12:41.319
groundhog Day where a magical Dradle makes a woman Live
1413
01:12:41.399 --> 01:12:44.359
the Seventh Night of Hanukah over and over again, and
1414
01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:48.800
it's really smart and really funny and clever, and it
1415
01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:52.560
doesn't feel like a Hallmark movie when you're watching it because.
1416
01:12:52.279 --> 01:12:56.000
It's so witty and you know, just beautifully put.
1417
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:59.960
Together, perfect all right. So, Alonso, if someone want, if
1418
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:04.000
if someone wanted to gift the love of their life
1419
01:13:04.119 --> 01:13:07.079
or friend or parent a copy of Have Yourself a
1420
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:10.039
Movie Little Christmas, where could they find that? Oh?
1421
01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:12.039
You know, it's available wherever books are sold.
1422
01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:15.439
Although I'm learning in this day and age that if
1423
01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:18.359
you unless you are you know, Stephen King uh to
1424
01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:21.239
send people to the internet because just because like I love,
1425
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:24.439
I love a brick and mortar bookstore, don't get me wrong,
1426
01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:27.159
but I don't find myself in them all that often.
1427
01:13:27.319 --> 01:13:29.880
So if you have a place online that you like
1428
01:13:29.920 --> 01:13:33.359
to buy books, you know, bookshop dot Org is lovely,
1429
01:13:33.439 --> 01:13:35.119
but there are a lot of other choices out there,
1430
01:13:35.560 --> 01:13:37.960
feel free to snap it up. Get the red cover version,
1431
01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:41.720
it's the new one, and yeah, I I hope, but
1432
01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:43.960
it does make a great gift. It's also a good
1433
01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:46.600
gift to just have around the house during the holidays
1434
01:13:46.600 --> 01:13:47.680
and maybe even after.
1435
01:13:48.439 --> 01:13:51.359
All right, perfect, well, Nick, I was going to ask everyone,
1436
01:13:51.800 --> 01:13:53.359
you know, I usually ask people where they can find them.
1437
01:13:53.359 --> 01:13:55.880
On social media, you can't be found. So if someone
1438
01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:59.560
wants to send send it to me and I will
1439
01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:02.600
get it to Nick Carrier Pigeon exactly. We used to
1440
01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:06.439
joke that, because John Waters doesn't have a way to
1441
01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:09.800
contact him, if you want to send him fan mail,
1442
01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:12.600
you send it to a comic book store in Baltimore
1443
01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:14.880
and then they will give it to him. So we
1444
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:16.560
used to joke that that's how you get a hold
1445
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.000
of Nick, to send it to a comic book shop.
1446
01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:21.840
I'm sure he'll any comic book Yeah, any comic book shop.
1447
01:14:21.920 --> 01:14:25.880
Just make every single one yes they know Nick.
1448
01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:28.920
Yeah, everyone knows Nick. And then Alonzo, where can people
1449
01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:31.840
find you and your work? And follow up question, do
1450
01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:33.359
you have anything coming up that you want people to
1451
01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:33.720
know about?
1452
01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:34.720
Sure?
1453
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:39.880
Well, I'm at a Doiraldi on Blue Sky, Alonzo dot
1454
01:14:39.960 --> 01:14:44.560
Douraldi on Instagram. I'm generally really easy to google h
1455
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:47.279
and I have a bunch of screenings coming up in
1456
01:14:47.319 --> 01:14:51.439
December that I'm really excited about. I'm introducing a screening
1457
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:53.760
of It's a Wonderful Life at the Guardina Cinema on
1458
01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:57.640
December fourth. I'm going to be at Christmas Con, which
1459
01:14:57.760 --> 01:15:03.000
is a thing in New Jersey the weekend of December twelfth.
1460
01:15:04.520 --> 01:15:06.479
I am screening.
1461
01:15:07.880 --> 01:15:09.760
I'm hosting a screening of something I'm not sure what
1462
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:14.000
yet at the Alamo Draft House on December seventeenth. I'm
1463
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.439
hosting a screening of Remember the Night in Palm Springs
1464
01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:19.800
on December nineteenth, and finally hosting a screening of White
1465
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:22.680
Christmas at the Aero Theater in Santa Monica on December
1466
01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:25.399
twenty second. And I will be signing and selling books
1467
01:15:25.439 --> 01:15:27.800
at all of those functions. So if you are in
1468
01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:30.399
the southern California area and you want to get a book,
1469
01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:32.800
or if you're at Christmas cont in New Jersey, I
1470
01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:34.760
will be happy to sell you one and autograph it.
1471
01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:38.720
Well that's perfect. And if you ever find yourself in
1472
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:41.319
the Wisconsin area, let me know. I'll buy you a coffee.
1473
01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:42.840
You'll be the first to know.
1474
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:46.520
All right, Well, thank you everyone for listening. This is
1475
01:15:46.600 --> 01:15:50.439
going to be our final episode of the season, so
1476
01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:53.439
I hope everyone has a wonderful and merry Christmas, and
1477
01:15:53.840 --> 01:15:56.159
hope you guys come back for season ten. We've got
1478
01:15:56.159 --> 01:15:59.319
some really great stuff planned. Nick. Originally this was going
1479
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:01.520
to be the two hunch that episode, but I decided
1480
01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:04.800
against that, and I decided that our first episode back
1481
01:16:05.239 --> 01:16:08.279
will be two hundred. I've got something planned. I don't
1482
01:16:08.319 --> 01:16:11.079
know if it's going to happen yet, but I'm really hopeful.
1483
01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:15.239
But yeah, we wish you all very merry Christmas, and
1484
01:16:15.399 --> 01:16:17.279
we'll talk to you guys next year.
1485
01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:25.279
The Shameless Picture Show is a proud member of the
1486
01:16:25.279 --> 01:16:29.319
Sinepunk's podcast network. The show is recorded in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
1487
01:16:29.399 --> 01:16:32.159
and is hosted and produced by Michael Ers. The show
1488
01:16:32.239 --> 01:16:35.359
is created by Michael Viers and Nit Richards. The Shameless
1489
01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:38.920
Picture Show is edited by Austin Proctor of The Freightmer's Podcast.
1490
01:16:39.359 --> 01:16:42.319
Amanda Viers is the show's graphic designer and a big
1491
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:45.520
help behind the scenes. Our theme music was composed by
1492
01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:49.279
Austin Proctor with narration by Nit Richards. The end credit
1493
01:16:49.359 --> 01:16:52.359
music you're currently enjoying was generously provided to us by
1494
01:16:52.359 --> 01:16:55.199
the band ten Speed, and an extra special thank you
1495
01:16:55.319 --> 01:16:58.800
to all our Patreon supporters and to our generous sponsors.
1496
01:16:59.239 --> 01:17:02.760
You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music,
1497
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:10.680
audible iHeartRadio, and directly at sinapunch dot com.