Meet the Author Series: Joanna Meyer

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Welcome to the Christian Career Women Podcast. I'm your host,
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Ellen Nievas, and we are continuing with our special five
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part series on authors that we have chosen for our
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Christian Career Women reading list. If you're new to the
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Christian Career Women Network and podcast, Welcome. We are a
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membership organization for Christian women professionals who want to grow
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in their faith, get ahead in their careers, and look
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fulfilling lives with Christ at the center. Through monthly professional
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development sessions, live coaching, and conversations like the one that
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we're about to have today. We are creating a space
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for Christian women who want to talk honestly about faith, ambition, leadership, calling,
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and all of the realities of navigating today's workplace. And
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today's conversation gets right to the heart of so many
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of those questions. Our guest is Johanna Meyer. She is
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the author of Women Work and Calling, Step Into Your
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Place in God's World. Joanna serves as Director of Public
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Engagement at the Denver Institute for Faith and Work, where
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she founded Women Work and Calling, a national initiative that
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equips women for influence in public life. She also hosts
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the Faith and Work podcast Before joining the Institute, Joanna
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worked in global telecommunications, nonprofit consulting, and campus ministry with Crewe.
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She also served as associate faculty at Denver Seminary and,
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in what may be my favorite line in any Guest Bio,
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as a sewing instructor at Fancy Fipercrafts. And I'm going
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to ask you more about that later. Joanna holds an
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MA in Social Entrepreneurship from Baki Graduate University and graduated
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Magna cum Laudi from the University of Colorado, Boulder. Joanna
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is a contributor to women and work, bearing God's image
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and joining in His mission through our work. Joanna, Welcome
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to the Christian Career Women Podcast.
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It is so great to be with you. Hi everybody.
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So Joanna, let's start with the story behind the book.
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What inspired you to write Women Work in Calling and
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what do you hope that women take away from it?
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Yeah, you know, we have been working on women Working
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Calling for the last eleven years and we were finding
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early on in the life of my our founding organization
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at Denver Institute for Faith and Work that women engaged
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this conversation of living our faith at worked differently than
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men did. Some of it was engaging historical inequities that
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women have faced in the marketplace. They had different questions
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about how to grow their career, how to have an
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effective leadership presence in places like that. Some of it
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was coming from the complexity of the lives that we juggled.
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So many women have significant caretaking responsibilities, whether it's children
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or older adults in their life that it has a
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profound effect on their work, and at times they've received
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cultural messaging that caretaking should have a more prominent role
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in their lives than a professional life should. And also
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we just found there was a gap that women had
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never been disciple to have a biblical understanding of the
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role that workplace in the mission of God, and in
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the absence of good, positive teaching, there was a lot
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of cultural messaging that was being taught in Christian circles.
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It wasn't biblically based. It was very much of a
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generation or of a denomination or a region of the
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country or point in history, instead of being pure honest
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scripture about what God invites women into. And so as
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we saw both the needs and the gap, we realized
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that one of the best ways for us to start
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feeling it was to create a simple, accessible, both discipleship
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framework and tool that could be shared, and so the
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Women Working Calling Book fit that need, and to be honest,
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it was a need that I had in my own life.
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I happened to a single woman who has leadership gifts,
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and so the roadmap that was often laid out for
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me in the faith circles that I have run in
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for a lifetime didn't include someone who had a life
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stage or personality like mine. And so a robust vision
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of work and calling has been life giving to me
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and a whole lot of other women that aren't like.
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Means very nice. And you've had a varied career.
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I mentioned in your bio that you served in the
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corporate world, and you went into ministry, teaching, and now
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you're at the Denver Institute for Faith and Work. How
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has your own career shaped the way that you think
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about work and calling?
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Oh so much. You know. I had spent the first
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twelve years of my career working in campus ministry, and
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so I just had a lot of everyday conversations with
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college students that were thinking about the role that faith
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would play in their life. And I loved it. I
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loved introducing students to Christ and then teaching them how
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to grow in some of the foundational aspects of their faith.
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But in that season, I was getting increasingly uncomfortable because
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I realized we weren't doing a great job preparing our
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students for life after graduation. I could see the need,
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and at the time I didn't know how to fill it.
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I didn't have a biblical understanding of work, but I
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felt like what we're doing was inadequate. And so I
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was also growing in my own understanding of God a
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bigger vision of the Gospel that it can be both
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personal the saving grace of Jesus Christ in our own lives,
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and also as big as the needs of the world.
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You know, when Christ died in the cross, he broke
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the power of sin in every aspect of our lives.
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And so when we think about what it looks like
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to follow Christ, it means joining him in his redemptive
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mission in the world, and it means having a bigger
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and richer and more multifaceted understand the Gospel. So that
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thinking of like, I think the Christian life is broader
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than I've been taught to believe. Was perking under the
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surface as I took a job a big jump into
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the corporate sector, and so for the first time in
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my career, I was seeing multifaceted workforce. It was pluralistic
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with people of all kinds of worldviews. I also had
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a chance to see some senior leaders who were Christians,
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and I watched the unique relational influence that they had
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in those contexts just because of the integrity and the
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clarity with which they lived their faith. I also saw
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the potential of a corporation that had a social conscience
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to do good in their communities. And so I just
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started thinking, like, God is at work in the business sector,
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but I don't know if every business leader, especially executives,
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have the freedom to think about how they would steward
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these incredible resources within the organization and in their communities.
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And so I started thinking about that. The combination of
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like a bigger vision of the gospel that God's at
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work and the world and in culture and seeing the
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potential of the business world came together and I was like,
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there is something and I want to know what it's about.
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So I started working on a master's degree in social
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entrepreneurship at a Christian business school. So I was thinking about
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how businesses can develop their communities when they have this
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conviction to serve the common good, and I had to
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take a theology of work class, which was just wild.
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It was in that moment that all of a sudden,
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a framework came into place that made sense of some
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of the deeper questions and rumblings that had been in
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my life for a number of years. And so as
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I started thinking biblically about work in the mission of
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God and what a discipleship looks like when it speaks
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into the workplace, I gained a new imagination for my
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own life and what it looks like to grow as
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a faithful Christian that I thought needed to be shared
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with others. So over the years that that was happening.
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After the economy crashed in two thousand and eight, I
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did all kinds of things. I was a part time
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sewing instructor for about a decade and thought a lot
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about how do you help people grow and feel the
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freedom to learn as adults. I was teaching of the seminary,
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I did nonprofit consulting. I was doing a lot of
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stuff to keep bread on the table in a really
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rocky season economically, and I was also teaching about faith
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and work at my local church. And that was thirteen
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years ago, just as the Denver Institute got started and
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our founder hired run our events, which was just an
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amazing experience. I was figuring out name tags and catering.
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Nothing glamorous, but it had put me in the right
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place at the right time for God to use my gifts.
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And so over the last thirteen years, that patchwork quilt
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of a career has begun to come into greater clarity.
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I saw the pattern that all those squares of fabric
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are all those different roles that I had filled. I
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could start to see the pattern that God was piecing
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together out of my life. And so I'm a proof
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positive that your career isn't always a linear journey and
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that God can be at work in every stage along
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the way.
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It's an amazing story. Thank you for sharing your journey.
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So in all of that, and your book has the
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word calling in it. So what the calling actually mean?
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Yeah, that is a million dollar question, and I'm going
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to respond to it a couple of ways. One is
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just to acknowledge that calling can be a very personal thing.
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A lot of us in our faith communities may have
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heard teaching or the suggestion that God has one special
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thing for you. And even in non spiritual context, just
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in popular culture, you'll hear language about following your bliss
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or if you find the job you were meant to do,
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you'll never work a day in your life. We have
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this idea that there's something special that you're made to do,
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that's out there, and it's your job to figure out
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what it is. In Christian communities, sometimes we'll talk about
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God having an assignment for us, or we use that
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language of call or vocation, and it can be tough
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to navigate all of that messaging around calling and compare
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it to scripture. Sometimes when we have too narrow a
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vision of calling, it actually can be paralyzing because we
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don't know how to figure out what that call is,
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or we don't know what happens when something that you
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think is a calling is not fulfilled. I'm somebody that
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would have loved to have been married or become a mother,
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and that just was not part of the direction that
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God had for me. And so I've heard plenty of
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language about calling around marriage and motherhood that I haven't
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been able to realize in my own life. So I'm
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starting by saying, like, Wow, there's a lot of pressure
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around what it means to be called, and I would
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argue from Scripture that calling is a lot broader than
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we think it is. We see two big examples of
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calling in Scripture. We do see examples where God reached
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into history and call specific individuals who played at and
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a very special role in the history of Israel or
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the life of the Church.
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You know.
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Examples of that are Moses and the burning Bush, or
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Paul on the Road to Damascus, or even Mary when
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the angel Gabriel announces that she's going to carry Christ.
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Those are examples of when God is having this extraordinary
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invitation to people. And remember we said there were also
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people that had a very specific role to play in
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the redemptive plan that God reveals in Scripture. Those are
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descriptive of how God can work, but they are not
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prescriptive of how God will work. That's an important distinction.
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They are descriptive of the narrative of how God has
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worked in human history. They're not prescriptive, meaning that any
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Christian can expect a burning brochure of relation of God's
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plan for them. What we do see is true of
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the calling that every Christian has really has received is
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revealed in other parts of scripture. We know that when
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we respond, when we respond to Christ's invitation to follow him,
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we step into a calling of discipleship that's true of
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anyone who follows Christ. We share a common call of discipleship.
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We also share a common call of our identity as
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members of the Church the capital see you see in
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the Pauline letters he talks about being called to one faith,
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one baptism, one community, that is the Church, And so
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we realize, oh wow, anybody that follows Christ is also
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part of the shared identity of being part of the
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universal Church of all history and all time. So all
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of a sudden we realize, huh. Before God's ever specific
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about what it means to follow or to have a call,
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He's general, like he invites us to some things that
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are true of any believer, and that can be both challenging.
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It will confront some of the assumptions about what it
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means to be called. It can be a little unnerving
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because it's a wide open space. Right when God gives
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us a very general call, it's I will what does
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that mean for my own life? But I think It's
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very empowering because it encourages us to be entrepreneurial about
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our own lives. That when we're surrendered to Christ, we
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don't have to be afraid of somehow missing our calling. Instead,
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we're put into a posture of being discerning and mindful
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of how God is at work in our lives and
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creative and entrepreneurial. We know what God is doing and
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renewing all things in the world, and we have a
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unique giftedness in the places that we are to get
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creative about how we're going to live that out. So
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that broad sense of calling can be wonderfully life giving
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when we adjust our mindset to understand it.
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I love that because it sounds to me, as you
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describe it, almost as a day right. He takes a step,
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You take a step. God takes the step. You take
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a step, And it's part of taking that step that
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really opens up the possibilities, the opportunities, and use the
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word entrepreneurship. There's a level of creativity, a level of
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taking risk, there's a level of doing something new that
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maybe has never been done before. So it really is
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a unique opportunity for us to kind of lean into
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a new adventure with God to find out what that
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calling might be.
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Yeah, and it allows us to be super dependent on
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the Lord. This isn't about pursuing our own selfish ambitions.
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It actually pushes us more closely into relationship with Him.
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But it also frees us up from feeling like there's
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this one thing that God has for me that I
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have to figure out in my life. And the reality is,
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I mean, look at my own life like God's call
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has slowly unfolded over time. It's been formed in me
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rather than something that I've found. And helpful metaphors for
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me are to think of calling as a look in
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the rear view mirror. We so want God to announce
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in advance what he wants us to do. And often
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if you talk to any person that's walked with Him
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for many years, you realize that God is quietly working
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alongside us in ways that we may not understand. But
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as you look in the rearview mirror where you've come from,
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you think, oh, look at all the ways that God
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was preparing me for this moment or this role. And
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that is so helpful because it changes our focus. It
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shifts it on to God rather than trying to find
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this one perfect thing that we think He has for us.
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Absolutely, that's wonderful. So I want to invite our live
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audience to submit any questions that they'd like to submit
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in the Q and A section, and our chief of staff,
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Vanessa will tell us if we have any questions, and
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then also if you want to speak your question, you're
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more than welcome to Just that Vanessa know, and we'll
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bring your microphone up the meantime, I will ask Joanna
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one more question and then we'll start taking some questions
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from our audience. So, Johnnah, one of the questions that
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I think a lot of women wrestle with is what's
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the difference between having a job and having a calling.
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Every job needs to feel like a calling.
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Yeah, I think it is. It's not doing yourself a
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favor to expect that every job will be her calling,
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because the reality is a life with God is bigger
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than any single job. And even the most dreamy job
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that you think is exactly what God has designed for
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you can go away. And that's a hard reality of
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our modern economy and just life. Like I think about
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a great job that I had when the economy crashed
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in two thousand and eight, and it evaporated over the
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course of a month when corporate funding dried up for
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for educational and development projects within the organization. Now if that,
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if I had put all of my hopes like this
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is my call, I would have been sorely disappointed when
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suddenly it disappeared. I know, people who have worked in
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ministry sectors are often pushed to say, how do you
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feel called to a specific role? And it's tough because
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you can get fired from jobs. I've been fired from jobs.
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And what if you think it's your calling and all
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of a sudden it's gone. I mean, there's various reasons
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why jobs disappear. But also we think of calling as
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something that's holistic, compasses stewarding our entire lives for God's purposes,
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and so if we pin it down to one single
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role in our lives, we miss the broader integration of
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all that we are, and that's a beautiful thing. Too often,
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as women, we've seen our roles compartmentalized. If you've ever
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heard messaging about not allowing a job to sacrifice your
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career or vice versa, you know, the workplace will kind
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of imply that you need to overwork at the expense
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of your family. Neither of those extremes help us. Instead,
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we need wisdom to know how to live in the
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tension of holding together all of the responsibilities that we have.
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So in my own life, bigger than any job, is
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my call to walk with Christ. My life is an aunt,
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my life as a neighbor, my life as a worker.
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All of that fits in this broad umbrella of life
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with God and shapes the stewardship decisions I make about
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my time and my treasure and my resources.
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Thank you, so, Vanessa, do we have any questions from
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our audience?
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Yes?
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And I think this is actually pretty related to what
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you were just saying, Joanna. I want to grow in
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my career. I want more responsibility and great influence. But
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sometimes I feel guilty for wanting those things. How do
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I know whether my ambition is God honoring or becoming
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too much about me.
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That's a really good question. I think I would start
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by saying, have you ever surrendered those desires to the Lord?
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Have you said God? I have a hunger for these things,
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and some of them may be a reflection of the
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giftedness and opportunity you've put before me. There's nothing wrong
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with desiring to better yourself. That can be a wonderful
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God given commitment some of us, just as women have
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an engine inside of us. I describe it as women
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having a motor. You know some women like that. Ellie,
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you're a great example of that, where women just have
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this energy for work, and that can be the wonderful
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fruit of ambition and who God has made.
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Us to be.
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So denying that it exists in our life actually isn't helpful.
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But we do need God to sanctify our ambitions, and
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so we want to ask different questions of God, how
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do I see you at work in these desires that
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I have? Or God, how will you use these desires
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to serve? If we're following the example of Christ, he's
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a perfect model of servant leadership and ambition as big
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as the world. Jesus was ambitious when you think about
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the scope of redemption. He had a very clear drive
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for the purposes which God had given him. But it
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was a sanctified ambition. It wasn't just for pride or
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personal accomplishment. And we can take we can have confidence
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and pride in the good work God is doing through us,
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but we want to make sure that spirit of surrender
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is underneath, and that will change the edge that our
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ambition has.
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Look great, let's lead into that a little BITU mention
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the women with the engine, right, So let's talk with
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the women, right, the woman who has a good job,
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it pays well, successful, maybe she even enjoys it, but
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she's still wondering, am I actually where God wants me
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to be?
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How can she begin to discern that?
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Yeah? I think I would look at it as a
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whole life perspective. Two words that help me when I
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think about big career decisions are stewardship and discipleship. So
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stewardship we often think of with money, but really it
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is the wise use and investment of all of our lives.
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And so a starting place would be really evaluating like
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what has God entrusted to me to steward Or another
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way to say it would be what areas are of
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power do I uniquely have in the scope of my life?
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And that could be our relationships or our professional skills,
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Like if there's a new unique skill set that you
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have in your work. It could be a job title
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that you have or a relationship platform that people inherently trust.
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What you have to say an author I really like
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is Amy Sherman in her Boo Kingdom Calling. She talks
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about areas of vocational power that we can understand and
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who God has made us to be and where He
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leads us. So as you start to evaluate those raw
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materials that God has put in your life, you can
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start to say, how will I be the best steward
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of what this might be? To be honest, that may
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not be developing a career path that is up into
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the right. I bet I'm looking up into the left,
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damages revers But you know, often, especially in American life,
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we think of a successful life being linear and progressing
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in an upward direction, right, or at least that's what
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we hope our life is going to be. Like Big Surprise,
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nobody wants to watch a movie. There's no drama or
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excitement in a story that's only up and positive all
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the time. Like we realize that the drama of redemption,
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the drama of a good movie, is going to have
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lots of highs and lows, and so stewardship doesn't always
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mean that you're moving from success to success. Sometimes stewardship
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is about sacrifice, Like I have friends in my life
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that have intentionally shrunk their careers because they had significant
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caretaking responsibilities, and so that was the right stewardship for
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their lives in that point in time. The flip side
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are friends that I know that stepped into bold opportunities
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that felt like a huge risk or step of faith,
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and as they sought the Lord, it was a good
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stewardship to say yes to those opportunities. It's not the
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same for all of us. But that question of really
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thinking with the Lord, like how am I making the
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most with what you have entrusted to me as a
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starting point, and then what goes along with it is discipleship.
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So how boy, it's I just got a flash of
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the Lord speaking to me in my own discipleship and
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my own job and leadership. The question we want to
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ask is how is God maturing us into the image
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of Christ through the pressures and the situations that we face.
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So when we shift from looking for that linear up
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into the right experience of life, we realize God's highest
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name is not our career success, it is that we
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would be conformed to the image of Christ. And so
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whatever those circumstances, whether they're exciting opportunities or very sacrificial
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decisions that we have to make, God can meet us
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in them to accomplish His goal of maturing us. And
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so I think when you're taking that different perspective of
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stewardship and discipleship, it gives you a whole lot of
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new questions to ask when you consider career opportunities.
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So, Vanessa, do we have any more questions than the audience?
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Yes? I think I know that it's time for a change,
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but I'm afraid of walking away from everything as built
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as starting over. How do you discern when taking that
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kind of risk is an act of faith rather than
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just an emotional reaction.
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That's a good question. One thing I would wonder is
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are there small experiments that you could do that would
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help you discern if God is leaving leading you in
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that direction? Like so often we think of a major jump,
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all or nothing, and maybe there are opportunities for small
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discernment to see how God worked by taking smaller steps
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that will get you there. My friend MICHAELA. O'Donnell, in
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her book Make Work Matter, talks about that. She said,
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what's the next doable risk that you could take to
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help you move forward in this area? Start breaking it?
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Down into small steps. It might be you know, if
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there's another career that you want to do, what steps
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can you take to actually get acquainted with it. Can
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you start doing informational interviews, Can you volunteer? Could you
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take classes to get you expertise? Like, what are the
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small steps to help confirm I love this, I'm suited
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for us. There are opportunities for this versus leaving everything
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to go into something big.
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And Vanessa Loo's like, we have a comment. It's not
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a question, but it is a comment from Alison in
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the Q and A section.
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I was actually going to ask or if she wanted
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to go on, but Allison let me know, and it's
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not all happy to read it.
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Hi, Alison, Okay, so you can talk. Okay, we're gonna
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turn her on. Allison, You're on.
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Hey, Joanna, it's Alison College Nation. I just was really
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just potting that you're teaching your comments on the alignment
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of whole life and.
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Hey, the intersection of stewardship.
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You know, it just reallygrascinates because we have season in our life, right,
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and we have seasons that feel robusely energizing and you know,
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quote kind of cool, and then we have seasons that
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just feel very challenging and hard, and I think the
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whole look at to saying God to each and every
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one of those moments and seasons, and so I just
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wanted to just reiterate that, you know, as an individual
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trying to balance as a single mom with also a career,
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those those moments can be very challenging.
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And so literally wasn't a question.
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It was just just a just to support and a
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yahoo and just hopefully an encouragement that that really had
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a remarkable kind.
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Of change set for me that even.
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In the moments of hard, that's the olest part how
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God has created us to be at the five moments of.
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Celebration in it. So thanks, thank you, sharing you on
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in your single motherhood, Allison.
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Thank you so much.
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So Joanna, you talk about women stepping into their place
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in God's world, what keeps women from fully recognizing the
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contribution that they're capable of making?
486
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.640
Okay, I'm going to give you like a practical answer,
487
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:19.680
and I'm going to give you like a biblical answer.
488
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:25.279
So I think part of the biblical answer is having
489
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.960
this vision of how our daily work, in whatever form
490
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:33.920
it takes, our parenting or neighboring, our corporate executiving how
491
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.160
it fits in God's bigger picture. So when you see
492
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.440
the story of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, of
493
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:43.960
the story of God's creation of the world, the effect
494
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.400
that's damaging, effect that sin has had on every area
495
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:51.559
of life. Every team and industry and company and neighborhood
496
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.480
has daily marketings of the effect of sin and how
497
00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:58.000
they relate goodness. I'm on my neighborhood hoa, and we're
498
00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:59.559
going to have a meeting after this, and we're going
499
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.559
to sit down and sit with a lot of like
500
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.839
brokenness and sin in in our community. So understanding that,
501
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.079
understanding Christ's redemption and what that means for all things,
502
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:16.000
and then understanding like, oh, the substance matter of your
503
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.920
work and their relationships there can be part of God's
504
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.480
healing and flourishing of the world. That's true in every team,
505
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:28.240
in every industry or company, in every community. There's opportunities
506
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.440
for us to use our imagination and influence there. And
507
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:36.039
then the hope of looking ahead to God's new heavens
508
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:37.960
and new Earth when life will be healed and restored.
509
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:40.920
When you understand that your daily work, when you are
510
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:46.799
your role as an account executive at at Netflix, when
511
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:50.200
you realize like, oh, God has a purpose for this
512
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.920
work is at work in me and in this place,
513
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:56.079
that changes everything. So, you know, we start with a
514
00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:59.920
biblical understanding of that, and often that's the biggest barriers.
515
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.240
Women have never heard that they haven't earned, or they
516
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:08.000
haven't defined their leadership and public life outside of teaching
517
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.960
that a church or other faith community might have about
518
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.240
women's roles in church leadership or marriage. And there's a
519
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.839
range of perspectives on those issues. But I argue, as
520
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:20.519
I have for over a decade, that in public life
521
00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:22.960
it's all play. We see that in Genesis that women
522
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.359
are invited to be part of a blessed alliance between
523
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.759
men and women stewarding and developing and caring for theirs.
524
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:33.599
So filling that gap with some really good biblical basis
525
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.400
and imagination is the starting point. But then the other barriers,
526
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.039
there's a couple that come up over and over and
527
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.920
over again. It would be imposter syndrome and limiting beliefs,
528
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:47.599
which I think are two expressions of a similar problem
529
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:53.400
of feeling like feeling like either we don't have what
530
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:55.720
it takes for the places that God leads us to
531
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.759
or whether it will be found out is inadequate, and
532
00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:01.839
then our own self that keeps us from living in
533
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:04.640
freedom and embracing what God hasks for us. It's really
534
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:07.799
funny when I teach in context like this, because it's
535
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.240
like a mirror in my own life, and I think
536
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:13.160
about the own my own limits that I've put on
537
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:15.319
my own life, and it's really humbling.
538
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.880
So, John, what would you say to the woman who
539
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.519
feels overlooked, the woman who feels like she's underutilized and
540
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.720
she wonders whether she actually needs to leave her job
541
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.079
or her company or organization so fulfill her calling.
542
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.359
I think there are some practical questions that you can have. Well,
543
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.440
one start with the inner life, like get in some
544
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.079
conversation with trusted friends or circle just like the one
545
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.119
that Ellie has formed here to be able to have
546
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:49.119
honest feedback about where you're sitting potentially, and yeah, get
547
00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:53.279
some trusted advisors to help you. But then ask questions
548
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.519
at work in an appropriate way. Any organization worth it
549
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.079
sult should be able to articulate how people get promoted
550
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:04.160
and why, And so you may want to ask your supervisors.
551
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.839
I'd like to see my career grow here. What are
552
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:09.839
the steps that I would need to take to advance
553
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:14.160
in the organization or are there specific areas of development
554
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.039
that you think are lacking in my own life that
555
00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:20.359
would keep me from advancing here, Like in an appropriate way,
556
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.599
ask for feedback about that and then be willing to
557
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.559
embrace reality. I have a dear friend who's a corporate coach,
558
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:34.200
and she said, there is always an opportunity to find
559
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:37.799
another job, and so the best time to find a
560
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.720
job is when you're currently employed. You know, if you
561
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:43.119
can't avoid walking out the door without knowing what's next,
562
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:46.519
but actively start looking if it becomes very clear that
563
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:49.079
your workplace is not a place where your career will grow,
564
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.960
or the workplace conditions are miserable for you, if you
565
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.559
have the freedom to go, go trust the Lord for
566
00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:59.079
something different. Now what's hard is I want to know
567
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:01.440
your thoughts, and I know that's not the goal. I
568
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.240
know I'm the like guess perspective, But I'm like, Kelly,
569
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:04.799
what would you.
570
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:08.359
Do to wanna You're gonna laugh, But I forget the
571
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:09.240
question I asked you.
572
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:12.920
Oh you would ask like, how do you really discern
573
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.359
if there are opportunities for you to advance at your job,
574
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.160
and what do you do if it becomes clear that
575
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:17.640
there aren't.
576
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:20.599
Yeah, I agree with you.
577
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.000
I think that sometimes we need to actually take that
578
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:28.039
step of faith and look elsewhere. I truly believe that
579
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:30.480
if you're not meant to go anywhere, that God will
580
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:33.279
shut the door, and if he wants you to go somewhere,
581
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:35.400
then he'll open a door. And one of my favorite prayers,
582
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.359
and I say this all the time, is that you know,
583
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.480
I always pray, God, you know, here's where my heart
584
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:42.680
is going, or I see an opportunity, but if it's
585
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.400
not of You, and if it's not for my highest good,
586
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:50.039
shut the door. And I pray continually for shut doors,
587
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.000
not because you know, I'm trying to hinder myself or
588
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.799
limit my own opportunities, but because I have that much
589
00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:58.359
trust in God that I don't want to walk through
590
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.640
the through a door that God is not for me.
591
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.039
So I agree that we need to you know, as
592
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:06.200
I said earlier, there needs to be that dance right.
593
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:08.280
Where's the dance? We take a step, God takes a
594
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:10.920
step right. But we can always expect to just be
595
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.480
idle and for something to fall on our lamp. Or
596
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.760
the opportunity to come to us, even though sometimes it
597
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.599
does right, Sometimes we're not expecting an opportunity and it
598
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:21.159
just comes to us. But there needs to be a
599
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:24.280
willingness on our part to take a step forward and
600
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.400
to take a risk. Yeah, so let's take a couple
601
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.440
more questions, Vanessa, Is there another question in the audience?
602
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:43.719
Yes, this one is about changing priorities. What happens when
603
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:47.079
the work that once felt right no longer fits the
604
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:52.000
person you've become. Is it possible for our calling or
605
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:53.960
the way we live it out to change as we
606
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:56.199
move through different seasons of life.
607
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:00.800
Oh totally. And that is one of the gifts of
608
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:06.519
a broad understanding of calling is realizing that how God
609
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:11.159
works through us evolves over time and across seasons and
610
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.280
and different opportunities. It's not a static thing. It's not
611
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.679
like you find the destination and off you go. And
612
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:20.400
so that gives us the freedom to be asking those
613
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:24.039
questions of like God, how am I co creating my
614
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:29.280
life with you? Strong emphasis on the with you, but
615
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.400
also that we can be proactive and if something isn't
616
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.679
a fit anymore, start looking, start sniffing around. I know
617
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.800
in my own life and I've talked to a few
618
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:45.320
friends about this that often big shifts in our career
619
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:50.000
don't happen overnight. Sometimes you just get a small nibbling,
620
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:55.639
or it's a like a loosening, like God's grip loosening
621
00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:59.159
your grip on something and you can't pick it back up.
622
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:01.960
And for me, that's always been a sign that it's like, Hey,
623
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:04.840
God's inviting me to consider something new. It may be
624
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.440
a while before I figure out what it is, or
625
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:10.800
I may be required to practically do some things to
626
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:14.639
prepare for what's next, but I can sense that God
627
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.719
is up to something and I want to be with
628
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:18.920
him in figuring out what that is. I think it's
629
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:22.400
very normal to feel the way that you're describing, right.
630
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.159
So, Joanna, we're going to wrap up our interview, and
631
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:27.519
I want to ask you an important question, which is,
632
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.880
if readers could implement us one lesson from Women Work
633
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.599
and Calling this week, what would you encourage them to do.
634
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:40.719
That's a great question. I think some of the principles
635
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:43.159
that we talk about in the book about God shaping
636
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:47.679
our souls through work are so helpful because they help
637
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:52.159
us be attentive and present to the Lord in our
638
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:56.000
daily work. Often we think that we have to escape
639
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:59.239
work to care for our souls, and the reality is
640
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.559
God is present at work, as he is in any
641
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.400
other area of our lives, and sometimes we just need
642
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.199
to develop some new habits or awareness of how He's there.
643
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:13.800
And so that would be a practical thing. Finding little
644
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.480
touch points throughout your day when you can just acknowledge
645
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.719
God and offer a word of prayer, or inviting Him
646
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.440
into your life in a way, into your work in
647
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.280
a way that maybe you haven't before, are very powerful
648
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.159
ways to make small, powerful changes through small shifts.
649
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:33.000
Great and Johnah, what's next for you? What are you
650
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:36.280
working on? What are you thinking about? Is there something
651
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.880
that you are particularly excited about during the season.
652
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.599
Yeah, that's a great question. So I think a couple
653
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.880
of things. One is something that you've experienced, Ellie. We're
654
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:50.159
really passionate about shifting the conversation for Christian women around
655
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.320
the roles cycle, in public play, in public life, and
656
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:56.199
so we are building a national ecosystem of people that
657
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:58.599
are thinking about how do we disciple women for the
658
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:01.760
scope of their vocations. So I'm excited to think about
659
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.639
how we can see that network grow and continue to
660
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:09.480
enrich the conversation for how Christian women are discipled, and
661
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:14.800
then personally, I want to do some deeper thinking about
662
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.199
what it looks like to have my personal life thrive.
663
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:20.400
I've been very entrepreneurial and hustling for a number of
664
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:23.079
years as we've grown women work in Calling, but it's
665
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:24.840
come at a cost. I maybe I am not a great
666
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.760
example of perfect work life balance, and so I need
667
00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:30.320
to spend some time imagining what God would have for
668
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:33.159
my life. And especially I'm in midlife, mid almost a
669
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:37.320
midwife midlife, and there are new opportunities and challenges that
670
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.360
come with it. And so just asking Lord, how would
671
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.280
you have me steward this season of my own life?
672
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:42.920
Is what's up next for me?
673
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:45.880
Fantastic? And how can our listeners connect with you? And
674
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:46.599
how can they pick.
675
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.400
Up a copy of your book? Women Are Work Calling?
676
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:49.920
Oh?
677
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.800
Thanks for holding it up. The book is available in
678
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:56.880
most booksellers, including Amazon. It's super short, and one thing
679
00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:00.599
that's great about it is it really encourages conversation, but
680
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.599
it's not heavy or a thick read. You could do
681
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:06.960
little devotionals over the twenty chapters over twenty days. You
682
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.920
can find me just by googling my name and women
683
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.199
Work in Calling and it'll pop right up. You'll find
684
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:16.320
me at Thewomenworkingcalling dot com website and I also have
685
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:20.440
a personal personal website and I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram
686
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:21.199
and Facebook.
687
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:23.960
All Jerna, thank you so much for joining us today.
688
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:28.079
I really do hope that today's conversation gives women permission
689
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.440
to think more expensively about their work, about their gifts,
690
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:34.639
about the influence. You use the word power, which I'd
691
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:36.519
like to use the word power too. We shy away
692
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.480
from the word power in so many different ways, and
693
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:43.639
God can really use them throughout these seasons of their lives.
694
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:45.320
So thank you so much for sharing with us today.
695
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:47.320
That's a gift to be with you. I love getting
696
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:48.679
to me all of you on the other side of
697
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:49.199
the wominar.
698
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.440
Thank you so and to everyone listening, thank you so
699
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.039
much for joining us today. And we hope that you
700
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:57.960
will join us for our next Meet the Author series
701
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:00.039
next week. We have one more author to go, so
702
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:02.599
we hope they chill join us for that. And if
703
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:06.239
you're enjoying these conversations and you're looking for a community
704
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.440
of Christian women to take both their faith and their
705
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.239
careers seriously. I would love to invite you to learn
706
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.239
more about the Christian Career Women network, and I also
707
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:17.679
have exciting news that I've been sharing. This fall, I'll
708
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.880
be launching my first book. It's a practical career guide
709
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.960
designed to help Christian women develop confidence, build influence, and
710
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.880
also advance professionally while remaining grounded in their Christian values.
711
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.960
So we're currently recruiting for our launch team. If you
712
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.400
are interested in joining the launch team, you'll get some
713
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.320
early views into the book and an opportunity to share
714
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:40.599
with other women who are also part of that launch team.
715
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.039
Please go to Christian Careerwomen dot com, click on the
716
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:47.000
book tab, and you'll find all of the information there.
717
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:50.280
So thank you for listening to the Christian Career Women Podcast.
718
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:54.440
Until next time, Keep growing in your faith, keep showing
719
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:56.440
up with excellence in your work, and trust that God
720
00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.960
can use every season of your career for his purpose.
721
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:00.960
Is godless.
722
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:14.079
Yeah,