Red Flags When Hiring a Contractor & What a Good Remodel Process Looks Like

[00:00:00] Speaker: Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction.



[00:00:09] Speaker: I'm your host, Mickie Paradise, and today we have a special guest. Jess is traveling, so we have our amazing Nicole. Nicole, tell us, tell us about your company. Listen, she's our favorite general contractor on the show.

Thank you. So she's been on the show before. She's not new here, but for those who are new, give us your, give us your two, your, your elevator pitch. Ugh. Well- She's like, "You didn't warn me about this." I hate the elevator pitch.

[00:00:32] Speaker 3: All right.

[00:00:33] Speaker: Or don't. Do what you want. 'Cause that's what the podcast is really about.

Live your best life.

[00:00:37] Speaker 3: So my name's Nicole Fella. I am an interior designer and licensed general contractor in one. I own the Bath Remodeling Center, uh, located in Cary, North Carolina, and I specialize in kitchen, bathroom, and walk-in closet renovations.

[00:00:51] Speaker: Oh. So y'all, you have to check out w- and we will put, I'll give you her, uh, Instagram and socials 'cause you have to check out her socials 'cause she has...

Well, first of all, Jess does her social media, but she does, like, walk-throughs. And let me just tell you, chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. But we were talking before the show, before we pressed record, and y- you were saying that you got your first trolls. I

[00:01:15] Speaker 3: did get my first trolls, so, so I feel like I've made it now.

[00:01:17] Speaker: You've made it. I'm established now. You've officially gotten to a place where people are leaving nasty comments. Yeah. They might be bots, but who cares? Yeah. It's like once you've pissed off the algorithm, you know you're doing something right.

[00:01:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I mean, at first you're reading, you're like, "What?"

And then you're like, "Oh, okay."

[00:01:32] Speaker: You're

[00:01:32] Speaker 3: like, "

[00:01:33] Speaker: Oh, you're not real."

[00:01:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. But, like, I'm established now. Like...

[00:01:36] Speaker: You're like, "Oh, I finally have trolls." Yeah. Like, I'm doing it. I remember when we first started, like, really g- getting comments, there was this one comment on one of our YouTube videos. And we actually don't get a lot of nasty comments on YouTube.

We get it more on TikTok. Mm-hmm. And- 'Cause it's

[00:01:55] Speaker 3: just a little blurb and that- Yeah, and- ... yeah, that one thing pisses somebody off ... and,

[00:01:58] Speaker: yeah. Oh, 100%. And there were so many of these. It was a real wild out there comment, and I was popping off about it. And we were actually in here, and Joe, like, Joe will do a deep dive in a minute.

Like, this man will find you. I

[00:02:11] Speaker 3: can appreciate that.

[00:02:12] Speaker: Like, okay? Be careful. All right. And he, like, two seconds later he goes, "Mickie, k- it's a bot. Like, it's not, it's not a real

[00:02:19] Speaker 2: person." Yeah. And I was like, "How do you know?" And he, like, gave me all of his sources, and I was like, "Oh." And it's like, it feels almost like rah, rah- Yeah

to be, like, upset about not a real- Not a real thing, yeah ... not a person. Yeah.

[00:02:33] Speaker: You're just like, "Aw, they got me." So congratulations. Thank you. You've achieved troll-level status on social media. You're doing it.

[00:02:42] Speaker 3: Yep, I'm

[00:02:42] Speaker: here. That's... And we're doing it, too. Um, I will say, we have been... We do occasionally get served up to, to the men in the world that just don't think women should be in construction.

Now- I've been in construction for 22 years. Nicole's been in construction for- 25 ... 25 years. So I'm just like, listen, there's a lot of years of experience in construction here, and we happen to have lady parts. Uh, that shouldn't really matter, but if you want to allow this to rage bait you, don't let me stop you.

It's your, it's your future heart attack. Now, why would this rage bait people? Because this podcast exists to help homeowners have better experiences with contractors. Now, there we get, we ask our amazing viewers, so you watching, to send in your stories because we love, first of all, tea. I'm here for the drama.

I love it, all of it. No matter what it is, we're here for it. But we also believe in sharing information, helping other people learn from other people's situations, knowing what is normal in construction because a lot of times we don't know. Like, oh yeah, that's totally normal. But also knowing, oh no, that's not at all normal.

That's not at all okay. And so the podcast just exists to help you, the homeowner, and you, the potential homeowner, to understand how to navigate dealing with contractors. How, how to navigate when you have to get a new roof, when you have, when you're gonna renovate your bathroom, what's normal, what's not normal, and how can you avoid finding yourself in those situations.

That's what we do. That's what we're here for. Now, we've been asking, and we've asked, we've asked Nicole, "Do you, will you come on the show and tell us stories about homeowners that behave badly?" And let me tell you, Nicole was like, "No. I'm not gonna do that." Why? Because Nicole wants people to hire her. So she doesn't wanna come on a podcast and talk bad about her potential clients or her existing clients , and I get that.

So we have opened th- you know, the forum up, not that it was ever closed to, but we are encouraging contractors to go to the website chicksinconstruction.com and share your stories anonymously with us so that we can share the other side of the coin. Because obviously no situation is only one-sided. Uh, there's always two sides of it.

Yeah. The truth is sometimes in the middle. And we want to share with homeowners ways that they can be better when dealing with contractors, things that they can avoid making it worse. There was a story recently where somebody shared with me, it was a, it was a general contractor, and she was telling me that the homeowner didn't like the cost of running the plumbing pipes, and was like, "Oh, I can just do that myself."

And she was like, "What?" Like, she's like, he, the contractor or the homeowner was like, "Yeah, listen, just take the, take the, take the plumbing out." Yeah. "I'll do it myself." No, that's not- That's not how it works, no ... it's not how it works. And so I was like, "Can you share the story with us?" Because it's a great example of a lot of times we kind of think we know how things work, and you'll, "Oh, I can do that cheaper."

N- maybe you could, but that's not how it works. And so we encourage general contractors to share stories with us. But we've had a, a hard time finding people to take us up on that. Now, I decided we're gonna do a new thing, where we're gonna show you an example of ... I'm calling it absolutely not. Like, this is, this is a bad idea.

So Joe is gonna, we're giving Joe a second to get it up on the screen. Nicole has not seen this. Because I think, like, I've been asking so much for contractors to, like, share their stories of, like, homeowner, homeowners that just-

[00:06:49] Speaker 3: Yeah ...

[00:06:50] Speaker: ate it so much that the algorithm is like, "Oh." Is

[00:06:54] Speaker 3: th-

[00:06:54] Speaker: Here's contractors doing it

this is what you want? Yeah. I got you. So over the last two weeks, I, w- on the scroll, I have seen several of vide- several videos like this, where contractors are share, either sharing stories or they are reading emails and just shaming the crap out of people. And I was like, "Oh, this isn't what I'm talking about."

So here we go. We're gonna r- I don't know how this works, but Joe's gonna figure it out.

Oh yeah, this is

[00:07:23] Speaker 4: it ... and noticed dimensions. Listen for the doors. "The plans indicate that the doors are three foot wide, eight foot tall. However, when I measured the door openings, I am getting approximately thirty-eight inches wide rather than thirty-six inches. I'm getting ninety-eight inches tall and not ninety-six inches, which would be a foot.

Can you clarify the discrepancy, where it's coming from? We specifically requested three-foot-wide doors by eight foot tall, so I would like to make sure we're both referring to the same finished door dimensions and that the correct door sizes are being installed."

[00:08:19] Speaker 5: He's just not

[00:08:20] Speaker: gonna say anything

[00:08:21] Speaker 4: If you got any questions, let us know down in the comment section.

[00:08:25] Speaker: So I've had trouble, like, f- how do I express to our audience how this is absolutely not a guy that you wanna hire? One, because I don't see anything wrong with that email. Like, of all the emails that contractors get, and this, I, I have, as a contractor, gotten the most outrageous emails from other contractors that don't know how my job works.

Right. Like, I think once I got an email from, like, the project manager of a project we were starting that was demanding that we source, um, mold-proof drywall mud. Which is not a thing. Drywall mud is, like, 80% water. There's no such thing as mold-proof drywall mud. And when I responded to him, he then c- like, chastises me and sends me a link that he found on Google about how hot mud is mold r- is mo- mo- mold resistant.

It was the most ridi- hot mud is 90% water. Like, it, it was ju- so I understand a ridiculous email. I have received them. I'm sure you have. Yes. A homeowner being confused about rough openings, to me, is not the move.

[00:09:47] Speaker 3: Yeah. No, this was shaming.

[00:09:49] Speaker: Right. It's

[00:09:49] Speaker 3: shaming. Right? It- So th- it was an educational moment.

Every- I think we've talked about this before. Yeah, yep. Like, every homeowner comes in with a different level of education, a different level of knowledge- Yeah ... right? Yeah. So some people know that a two-by-four is one and a half by three and a half. Right. And some people don't. Don't. Right. And they just think it's two by four.

Right. And that's what we're dealing with here, right? Yeah. So people have a different level of knowledge, but that was him shaming, right? I was, I would say, more pleasantly surprised that he didn't go off. Right. Which ki- felt like that's where it was gonna go. I will say,

[00:10:21] Speaker: the comments is where it was like, who is this for?

Because it was one of those things where it's like, how does this serve your company? And what was hilarious to me, so, like, he did four of these videos before I think he realized that the likes that he was getting on the video were not gonna help his business. Yeah. Like, the comments were all shaming all the people.

And I guess that's the point of this type of series. Yeah. Is, is, "You stupid homeowner. You don't know that a rough opening has to accommodate the fact that not, that a two-by-four's not actually a two by four," or that the f- the, the framing has to go in. The jambs, okay. And once the jamb is in, then it will be a true three foot by eight foot.

[00:11:08] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:11:09] Speaker: That is the kind of stuff that we want you all to look for when- you are trying to hire a contractor, when you go to their social media, do they have multiple videos where they're reading emails from clients and shaming them for not knowing things that right to us make sense, but to you as the homeowner w- we don't, we should not expect you to know how everything in construction works.

Yeah. And if you're working with a general contractor where they're expecting you to be the pr- the c- construction professional and know that a- once the jam is in, you're gonna get to that desired measurement How are they gonna treat you in things that are a, a much more serious deal than just a door opening?

Yeah. How are they gonna treat you when they're ha- you're having problems with your HVAC system that they don't wanna deal with, and they're gonna treat you like, "Oh, you're so stupid."

[00:12:07] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:12:07] Speaker: Yeah. So that was, that's the kinda thing where it's like this is the opposite direction. Good general contractors don't wanna come on our show because they don't wanna shame their clients, and they don't wanna be seen as shaming their clients.

A bad general contractor- Just blast them ... is reading emails out loud for likes on Instagram, not realizing that the internet is forever. And the best part about this guy is he's a general contractor in South Carolina. They, he ta- ties his company's website to his Instagram page. You can directly click to their luxury general contracting website, where he is one of the founders.

And I'm just like, "Yeah, guys, hire this guy. This'll, he's gonna treat you with respect."

[00:13:01] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, at, so like as a general contractor, the, like you have one opinion about other contractors that do that, right? Right. Like, there's, general contractors get a bad name.

[00:13:11] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:13:12] Speaker 3: Just as an example.

[00:13:12] Speaker: That's

[00:13:12] Speaker 3: why. Right?

But as a homeowner, that should be a red flag. 100%. Right? Like, "Oh, am I gonna end up in this guy's email in- Right ... on one of these things because- Right ... he's gonna read my email?" Like, yeah.

[00:13:23] Speaker: You don't, and the thing is- I'd be freaked out ... like, so this is, like, a trend. It's trending on Instagram. Or, like, I, like, as we have discussed, I don't have TikTok because I just don't need that kind of drama in my life, but it is trending on social media.

And so, like, y- you know, I think I, and that one I commented, and I was like, "Who is advising you to make these videos? Because I'm telling you right now, they hate you." Yeah. I was like, "This is such bad advertising for your company."

[00:13:51] Speaker 3: Right. Like, you're looking to get clients- Right ... and if you're gonna sit there and, and ridicule a client's question, which was a, you know, an inane question.

Like, there was nothing to that. There

[00:14:00] Speaker: was nothing. They were, I thought they were super respectful. They were like, "Hey," they asked him to explain it. Yeah. Like, "I measured it. It's two inches bigger. It, on the top and the bottom. What's up with that?" They're asking.

[00:14:15] Speaker 3: Yeah. Like-

[00:14:15] Speaker: So

[00:14:15] Speaker 3: it'll be interesting to see what his actual response to the client- Right

was, right? Yeah. And I'm, like- Was it polite and respectful? Hopefully.

[00:14:22] Speaker: But it's hard to imagine. But- And this is the, this is why this is a very bad idea. It's hard to imagine that if he's willing to make a video about this, that his response was polite. Because the pol- the w- I, I am the first person to tell you I am not meant to be a person who deals with homeowners.

I played that game I was bad at. I, like, I was thinking about when I did residential drywall, I almost got arrested at a, at a, at a, at a one-year warranty call because the, the homeowner's expectations of what drywall did was not in reality, and they weren't having it, especially 'cause I was a 24-year-old blonde hair, blue-eyed little thing talking, like, being a, being a construction expert, and this guy wasn't having any of it, and so I almost killed him.

And that was when I realized I should probably not deal with homeowners. So I understand that homeowners can be the problem, but in a situation like this, I thought the r- the email was perfectly acceptable.

[00:15:28] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:15:29] Speaker: I- and this is the kind of thing where we're on this podcast saying, "Hey, listen, ask questions.

If you don't understand something, if you're worried about something, ask questions even if it, you're, if even if you feel stupid asking it," because that's one of the number one things that people, when they're writing in, they're sharing their stories with us, which you can do at chicksinconstruction.com, they say, they s- they were talking this, that, and the other, they used all these construction words.

I didn't know what they meant, and I d- I felt stupid asking. Yeah, they

[00:16:00] Speaker 3: get embarrassed

[00:16:00] Speaker: and they want- We- ... don't ask ... hear that on almost every one of our construction homeowner stories. So here we are saying, f- just ask the question. If they make you feel stupid, ask the question anyway. And then these people post this stuff, and it's like, who would want to ask that guy a question?

[00:16:19] Speaker 3: Yeah. And he'd be so much better served if those videos were like, he could be, could have still read that email- And

[00:16:25] Speaker: said, "Okay" ...

[00:16:25] Speaker 3: and then just said, "Let's learn" ... "Let me

[00:16:26] Speaker: explain to you- Yeah ... that once you put the door jamb in, which is an inch thick on each side, you will have an eight-foot opening." It didn't have to be this, where he just looks d- he does like the Ji- like the Jim from The Office moment- Yeah

where he just, he breaks the, what is it, the fourth- The fourth wall ... wall. Yeah. And he just looks at the camera like, "You're so stupid." No, I thought that was a very reasonable question, and we still encourage you all, the homeowners, to ask questions. And we also encourage you to not hire people that think it's a good business move to shame past clients for asking very polite and, and very reasonable questions.

I don't think you're supposed to know that, that there's an issue there. I don't, I don't think you're supposed to know that, oh, the, once the door jamb goes in. That's something you've known if you've built houses, if that's what you do for a living. So I don't know if this was the best example, but we're gonna keep doing this.

I, you know, if, if, if dudes are gonna keep posting videos like that, we're gonna keep showing you, hey, avoid hiring this guy. We want people to ask questions, and we want to encourage you to ask questions, and this guy is doing the literal opposite of it. So I don't know. I mean, I guess hire him if you wanna be treated like you're stupid.

He does a great job of explaining he's the right guy for that job.

[00:17:50] Speaker 3: He, yes,

[00:17:51] Speaker: he. So- And he

[00:17:51] Speaker 3: knows everything ...

[00:17:52] Speaker: he knows everything- He knows everything ... and you're so stupid You don't need to know anything. How dare you? How dare you write a very polite email about the openings of the doors?

[00:18:01] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I've gotten some- I'm,

[00:18:02] Speaker: yeah, I'm sure you

[00:18:04] Speaker 3: have

some emails. I mean-

[00:18:06] Speaker: I'm not saying, like- we have discussed Nicole's not gonna talk about her clients. But when we have talked about in past episodes with you on about the importance of communication, one of the things that we get a lot is people not understanding what the process should look like.

So when, when w- I realized that we needed to, you know, keep recording even though Jess is living her best life, globe-trotting with her family in España, I was like, "I should have Nicole on so she can come and help our listeners understand the process." Because I think people don't know what it's supposed to look like when they engage with a general contractor, and what they're supposed to get in, it, you know, in, as you move forward.

So what is it ... Like, when somebody comes to you and they want to do a g- kitchen remodel, and like t- walk me through your process so that we can help the homeowners understand when I'm dealing with a reputable general contractor, what does that look like versus, "Oh, he came to the house. He measured things.

He wrote down on a piece of paper a price." Yeah. "I agreed to it, gave him a 50% deposit, and then two and a half weeks later he started." They did the ... 'Cause it, the, the way things have been going and the stories we're getting lately are, oh, it was, they did the demo. It happened so fast, and then as soon as the demo's done, it starts to go downhill.

[00:19:42] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:19:43] Speaker: So I was like, all right. We should have Nicole on, and let's just talk. I'm your client. I'm a potential client. Mm-hmm. I'm s- you're gonna renovate my bathroom. What does that, what do I need to be looking for?

[00:19:57] Speaker 3: One of the questions I ask people ver- at the very beginning is, have you done a remodel in the past?

Yeah. Right? 'Cause you bring a little bit of that into you. Right.

[00:20:04] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:20:05] Speaker 3: So if you've done a remodel in the past, you had a nega- negative experience with that contractor. Like, I love when I go into somebody's home and they're having me quote a kitchen or a bathroom, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, we just did that bathroom last year."

Why didn't you go back with that company?

[00:20:19] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:20:19] Speaker 3: What happened there?

[00:20:20] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:20:20] Speaker 3: Right? Um, and it's telling. Yeah. It's usually often telling, and sometimes there's red flags about a client- Right ... that you're like, "Okay, that could be a potential thing," like the, the contractor may not have been at fault- Yeah ... or the problem there.

The pro- the problem. Yeah. Um, and sometimes it's just the normal stories that you hear. Yeah. That they signed up, they gave their deposit, they showed up, they were there for a couple days. Yeah. They went MIA for a few days. They never knew when they were coming. Yes. Right? And so- Every

[00:20:46] Speaker: story has those components in it.

[00:20:48] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, um, and then there's contractors or subcontractors that are showing up. They're not sure who's gonna be there- Yep ... when they're gonna be there, if that's gonna- Literally, you're

[00:20:55] Speaker: just reading our- ... our homeowners stories out loud. They're like, "Yes, that." It's,

[00:20:59] Speaker 3: it's just the same thing over and, and re- Every time

you know, rinse and repeat. Everybody has that same experience. So the way we've built our company is to be the opposite of that. Yeah. So, um, clients work directly with me. I go into the home. I meet with them. Yeah. And so I start out with a questionnaire. I'm getting like how you're using that space, right?

'Cause there, there's codes, which are the minimums, right? Yep. Right. Like, that's the minimum of what you need to design for. Yeah. And then there's actual functionality and the way that you live in the space. So we're going through, and I'm really interviewing them on how they use the space, what they're storing- Right

what it's, how it's gonna be used, how many people are gonna be using it. Like-

[00:21:39] Speaker: Yeah ...

[00:21:39] Speaker 3: is it your primary bathroom, but your kids shower in there all the time too? Right. Yeah. And you need space for that. Um, how many people are cooking regularly in the kitchen? Yeah. So those are things that we're gonna go through and question.

And then- I get all that information with the clients, I get photos, I get measurements. I put everything into AutoCAD, and then they'll come into the showroom and meet with me. Okay. And then I'll go through a design. We'll do a big tour of the showroom, get an idea on materials- Yeah ... and then work up a quote with them.

Okay. So they actually get, like, a written quote- Nice ... usually, like, three or four pages-

[00:22:11] Speaker: Yeah ...

[00:22:12] Speaker 3: with details.

[00:22:13] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Like- And, and, like, this is the material.

[00:22:17] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:22:18] Speaker: This is the tile. Yeah. This

[00:22:19] Speaker 3: is the countertop. So there's, like, actual specific things in there in that quote. If it's something we haven't decided for, there's an allowance for it written there.

Okay. I don't typically work with allowances. A lot of

[00:22:29] Speaker: contractors do. Explain allowances, because I feel like a lot of pe- this, it gets misused and abused- Yeah ... on both sides, where- Yeah ... where general contractors will abuse allowances, and then homeowners will just not understand an allowance and think it's, like, just this free money.

[00:22:46] Speaker 3: Yeah. So contractors will use allowances if you haven't selected a material yet. However, they can abuse it by giving you a low-ball number. Right. So, okay, I'm giving you $2 a square foot for tile.

[00:23:01] Speaker: Knowing

[00:23:01] Speaker 3: that tile- You're never gonna find tile. You're going five or $6 a square foot- Right. Right ... or more. Um, so if they're giving you a low number, you may not know that it's a low number.

You're just looking at the bottom line- Right ... and going, "Okay, this is great- Oh, okay. Yeah ... because this is in my budget." And then you go and pick out materials, and now you've just added thousands of dollars to your total.

[00:23:20] Speaker: And this is something that's really important to pay attention to, because, like, we had, um, an event where we, it was like a l- we launched, uh, Plans and Pours, where we connected homeowners with contractors.

And so we did, like, a little baby launch, and one of the homeowners that came engaged with Wallaby Windows. Mm-hmm. And they called us to be like, "You're never gonna believe this story." So they called Wallaby. They called, like, three other window companies. Wallaby Windows is a window company. They, that local.

They've been on the show.

So the, all these, these, these three window companies come out, they quote. They're all cheaper than Walbe Windows. Mm. So Ashley says, "Well, send me over their quotes so, uh, so that I can look at it knowing that I know how to read contracts- Mm-hmm ... to see are we just, like, living in, in la-la land?" Right. Like, is our pricing that far off?

Like, what's missing? Every single one of them, the quote that they provided was materials only. So she had labor and materials in her window price, and every single one of these contractors in the very, very fine print, it was the cost for only the windows.

[00:24:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. I've done the same thing. So if people call me up and they're like, "You know, I'm getting these quotes and they're so drastically different-" Yeah

I'll bring it in. I'll take a look at it. Yeah. I'm happy to go over it with you. Yeah. And yeah, you go through and you, you realize, like, they gave you allowance for tile or they didn't include something. Right. It's def- it, it's hard- It's not

[00:24:49] Speaker: apples for apples ...

[00:24:50] Speaker 3: it's never apples for apples. Yeah. Even if we were quoting the exact same materials- Right

it's not apples for apples, 'cause there's different levels of experience- Yeah ... different levels of project management and organization, timelines.

[00:25:00] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:25:00] Speaker 3: Efficiency. All of that stuff is different. Yeah. So you can never compare those things. But on the materials at least-

[00:25:06] Speaker: At least on the

[00:25:07] Speaker 3: materials you can be like

that you should be able to say, "Yes, this is this."

[00:25:09] Speaker: And we've had so many stories where people will give you an allowance for something, and they lowball it to get the job. Yes. And this is the number one reason why somebody would lowball an allowance, because they want to get you on the hook, and then they're gonna come back and add $5 a square foot to that price.

Yeah,

[00:25:28] Speaker 3: or change orders for everything.

[00:25:29] Speaker: For everything. Yeah. So okay. So that is explaining allowances. What, what's next in the process? So we come in- So we've

[00:25:37] Speaker 3: given the quote Yeah ... th- we've g- they've gotten the number. They decide they wanna hire us. They're gonna come back in, and then that's when we're gonna finalize and sign- Okay

our contract. Contract should be detailed. There should be specifications on there. We provide plans and renderings- Yeah ... um, as well as the contract itself. We do a 20% deposit. Okay. Um, a lot of contractors do 30%. That's fine, too. I would say anything more than 30%, I would be questioning-

[00:26:04] Speaker: We have said we, like, we don't encourage going above th- above, above 20.

[00:26:08] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:26:09] Speaker: But mostly, it, but we also caveat that that changes if you're doing anything custom or you're doing- Mm-hmm ... like, something that's special order. And so, like, you have to, you have to factor in- Yeah.

[00:26:20] Speaker 3: And it depends on the scope of the project, too. Right. If it's a job that's, like, two or three days- Right

you may take more upfront- Yeah ... because you're only gonna be there two or three days. Right. And so it might be 50/50 at that point for a small- Okay ... $3,500 job, right?

[00:26:33] Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah,

[00:26:34] Speaker 3: yeah. Um, so if it's- Yeah ... a small job like that, yeah, um.

[00:26:36] Speaker: See, a lot of general contractors won't even do smaller jobs like that.

Yeah. So it's like, in certain cases, that's a really good point. I'm so glad you pointed that out because we talk in just, like, these finalities. Yeah. But it is important to understand that there are nuances- Yeah ... and that, so okay, in this case where it is a smaller job- But people aren't as motivated to, you know, if, if the, if the profit on a $3,500 job is $500 and the profit on a $35,000 job is, I don't know, whatever, a whole lot more.

Girl math. Contractor math. Obviously people are gonna be more motivated to just blow off a $3,500 job versus a $35,000 job.

[00:27:21] Speaker 3: And that's where you start getting into the problems that people are saying, where the contractors or subcontractors haven't shown up or haven't come back.

[00:27:27] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:27:27] Speaker 3: Because they've taken your deposit, they've started your project.

They are now getting another bigger project or something- Yeah ... and so they're moving over to that job. Right. Yes. Or the plumber got a bigger job- Yeah ... and so they're gonna go take that job instead of coming in for something like-

[00:27:43] Speaker: Which is the nature of subs. Yeah. A- and so that's, that was something I wanted you to talk about too, 'cause you guys don't use subs as much, right?

Like-

[00:27:50] Speaker 3: So our plumber and electrician are subs.

[00:27:52] Speaker: Okay.

[00:27:52] Speaker 3: But we have one plumber and one electrician- Yeah ... that do every one of our jobs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's the same people that we've used for-

[00:27:57] Speaker: Right ...

[00:27:58] Speaker 3: well over a decade.

[00:27:59] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:27:59] Speaker 3: Um, and so- And

[00:28:00] Speaker: I view of a lot of in-house people.

[00:28:02] Speaker 3: Yes, yes. Our carpenters and tile setters- Yeah

are all in-house.

[00:28:05] Speaker: Which is wild, and that's almost unheard of. But I get it because w- the, the nature of, like, using ... I'm technically a subcontractor. Mm-hmm. So as a drywall contractor, I am a sub of the general contractor. The general contractor doesn't self-perform drywall, especially 'cause we do apartments.

Mm-hmm. So of course they don't. But that means that I'm taking on multiple projects as a subcontractor. That general contractor is going under contract with me, but then just kinda hope and a prayer that I care about honoring my agreements. Yeah. Th- when you're a general contractor that's dependent upon s- subcontractors, if they don't get paid well, or you don't pay on time, or you mess with people's money, or there's just another b- job that, like she was saying, that's bigger and there's more money on the table, they can just leave.

They don't have any obligation to finish your project. Yeah. And so-

[00:28:59] Speaker 3: Especially if you're just hiring them here or there, right? Yeah. Yep. Like, "Oh, I'm bidding it out to whoever. I'm giving it to the lowest bidder." Right.

[00:29:05] Speaker: Yep.

[00:29:06] Speaker 3: They have no commitment to you.

[00:29:07] Speaker: And that's the thing is, is understanding, like, obviously when Jess and I started the podcast, we had no concept of how much kitchen and bath renovations cost.

Nicole really did help set us straight, 'cause we were living in pre-COVID times. Yes. She was just like, "Girls, your numbers are way off." And I was like, "What?" So, the thing to understand is, like, yeah, you can 100% go find a cheaper price than, than The Kitchen and Bath Center, 100%. Mm-hmm. But how long is that project gonna take?

Like, are, are you gonna be the next person to write in? Yeah. So it's understanding that concept of, like, you get what you pay for is really important. And b- being able to compare numbers to, "This is the experience I'm gonna have," versus, "I don't even know what experience I'm gonna have- Yeah ... because we didn't talk about it."

So you guys need to n- like, being able to sit down and say, "Okay, this is how a consultation for a r- kitchen ren- renovation should go. I should be able to go in and see..." Like, the fact that you guys have a showroom-

[00:30:13] Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, that's a big thing ... is

[00:30:15] Speaker: a huge thing.

[00:30:15] Speaker 3: And that they can actually speak with me. Like, I was, this morning before I came in, I was at a job in Pittsburgh that we just finished up, and I was just going out there.

We do a little gift basket at the end- Oh, that's so cool ... and take photos and all. Um, and when I was quoting that job, they had gotten... It was a bathroom and a laundry room that we were taking down a wall, making the bathroom bigger- Yeah ... making the laundry room a normal-sized laundry room, and doing all the finishes and everything.

Um, and we quoted the job, and we came in, like, $30,000 less than- Really? ... some of our competitors. Yeah.

[00:30:47] Speaker: Interesting.

[00:30:47] Speaker 3: And so, I don't know what exactly the other people were quoting. But- Wow. Um, but yeah, so we came in significantly less than they did. Wow.

[00:30:58] Speaker 2: See, that always scares me. When somebody tells me I'm low, I'm like, "Oh, God, I missed something."

[00:31:02] Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, I did. That's

[00:31:04] Speaker 2: where my mind goes.

[00:31:05] Speaker 3: And I definitely re-ran, like, at the end after, like, all- Yeah ... everything, I ran my numbers- You're like, "No, it was probable." ... my numbers were fine. I was good. Yeah. So, like was a little scary. Wow. But yeah, um, so we came in significantly less. Okay. But they got one... I mean, like, these people were ecstatic.

Yeah. And so, they were like, "We're- Yeah ... this is so, thank you so much. You guys have been great. Communication the whole way." Like, that's a big thing. So, like we said, not knowing when your contractors are gonna show up- Yep ... when the subcontractors are gonna show up. Having that communication- Yeah ... right? Like, one, because we have our own full-time crew.

Yeah. They're showing up at 7:30 every morning.

[00:31:40] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:31:40] Speaker 3: Monday through Friday, somebody's there at 7:30. When we start the job, we're there straight through until we're, we finish the job.

[00:31:46] Speaker: Now, are you always their point of contact, or do, like, you kind of do design? So I have a project

[00:31:51] Speaker 3: manager.

[00:31:52] Speaker: Okay. Like, how does that work?

So they've, they've signed with you. They, y- they've picked their stuff. Mm-hmm. 'Cause one of the things that we hear a lot is, "After we signed, we never saw the general contractor again," or, "They were very hard to get into contact with." Mm-hmm. And they were kind of managing the, all the different subs that were coming and going.

Yeah. We hear that a lot. And then we also hear They said they ordered th- the, the materials, th- everything got delayed. Then they come back to me and say, "Oh, well, this was b- out of order, out of stock." Mm-hmm. "And now it's $10,000 more." Oh, yeah. So, like, we, we need to address that. But so I've signed with you, what are next steps?

Like, how, who is my point of contact? What is the schedule? How do I get informed about all of this?

[00:32:40] Speaker 3: So I hand you off to my project manager. Okay. She's go- it's all women in the office. Oh, my God. I hope it is. Um, she's gonna order all the materials- Okay ... pull your permits- Okay ... coordinate scheduling. You're gonna get a ton of emails.

We do emails, DocuSign- Okay ... lots of information, how to prepare, what to expect. Oh. One is just on what to expect communication-wise. Okay? Okay. That's awesome. Like, these are, like, the normal schedule emails you're gonna

[00:33:03] Speaker: get. What is to expect? Like, what does that, what does that say? Is, like-

[00:33:07] Speaker 3: So, um, we talk about the fact that you're gonna get communications from us at these key points.

Once right before demo. Well, once to set up delivery, which is a week before demo.

[00:33:17] Speaker: Okay.

[00:33:17] Speaker 3: Then once the day before demo confirming, yes, we're gonna be there tomorrow morning- Okay ... at this time. No delays. Um, once at the end of demolition, which is usually end of day one- Yeah ... beginning of day two. Um, once usually at, like, day 8 or so, which is usually the day the cabinets are going in.

Okay. Once, um, usually day 12 or 13, when we're getting ready to clean up.

[00:33:39] Speaker: Okay.

[00:33:39] Speaker 3: And then once we're ready to schedule final inspections after the glass goes in. Those are, like, regularly scheduled. Okay. These are definite communications. The, "

[00:33:45] Speaker: You

[00:33:46] Speaker 3: will always

[00:33:47] Speaker: hear from us at these points."

[00:33:48] Speaker 3: Right. Period. And then everything else in between there is just client dependent.

Yeah, yeah. Right? So some clients want more information. Yeah. And so we're just doing daily communications with them. Some, uh, it's just like, "Okay, the inspectors got delayed and-" Yeah ... "couldn't get there today, so it got rolled. So we're just letting you know-" Yeah ... "like, hey, this is being pushed till tomorrow."

And it's

[00:34:09] Speaker: important to understand that that happens. Yeah. Like, I, we had, um, I was helping a friend out. They had bought a house, and they were renovating it, and they were putting in a gas stove. And so we, they had to run a gas line. Obviously, that has to be inspected. Inspector comes to the house. It, he felt like, he didn't go to the door.

He, he felt like it looked like no one was home. I was in the house waiting for this guy. I was there all day. I get, like, aft- he comes to the, the driveway, says, "Looks like nobody's home," goes in and, and writes in the inspection, 'cause there's, like, a portal, he went to the house and nobody was there. I call him.

I'm like, "Are, what are you talking about no- I've been here all day." So, like, inspectors can be crazy. Mm-hmm. And they can do stupid stuff because sometimes they can be jerks. Not all of them- Yeah ... but some of them.

[00:35:00] Speaker 3: And the inspection scheduling, I mean- Yeah ... there's jurisdictions here where inspectors have- 30 stops they have to do a day- Yeah

or more.

[00:35:09] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:35:09] Speaker 3: And so it's unrealistic- Yeah ... that they're gonna get to all of these jobs. Get to all of those in a day, yeah. So the scheduling portion should be done better.

[00:35:18] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:35:18] Speaker 3: Um, and so sometimes they just get rolled to the next day. Yeah, yeah. And so for the most part with us it doesn't delay us too much.

Right. Um, there's like one part of it that might. There's certain jurisdictions that I absolutely loathe working in because- Yeah ... they're ju- like they don't do multi-trade inspect. Like counties? Yes.

[00:35:39] Speaker: Okay.

[00:35:40] Speaker 3: Um-

[00:35:40] Speaker: I, I'm assuming Wake County's not one of them-

[00:35:42] Speaker 3: No, Wake County's pretty good ... 'cause they're pretty good.

Yeah. Wake County's good. Is it

[00:35:45] Speaker: Chatham?

[00:35:46] Speaker 3: Um, they're not that bad. Durham County. Is

[00:35:48] Speaker: it? Oh, no. Durham is the worst. They're the worst. We did a job in Durham. I'm just like I can't believe people say things out loud sometimes where you're like, "That's supposed to be on the inside." "You're not supposed to say that on the outside."

So obviously we do apartments, so it's not the same, but the, the, it was a, it was a condo building, like five or six stories in downtown Durham, and the inspector, when we're going for finals, just kept failing them, kept failing them. Finally, they get the, uh, everything passed, and the inspector comes to the superintendent and he says, "So we saw that you used..."

It was a, the sprinkler company. The, the largest sprinkler company in the wor- in the country is based out of Florida. Mm-hmm. They have offices in, like, every state in the union, but they're based out of Florida. So the inspector says to the superintendent, "Well, I'm just gonna let y'all know now, if you had hired a local sprinkler company, these inspections would've gone a lot better for you."

[00:36:48] Speaker 2: So he had just admitted- Right ... that he failed them based on the fact that he didn't hire a local.

[00:36:54] Speaker 3: That's crazy. Like, this is

[00:36:54] Speaker 2: a huge general contracting company. Yeah. Like, the guy looks at him and goes, "Do you think I make those decisions?" Like, he,

the, the, the superintendent in the field- Yeah ... especially in what we do, they're not making the decisions- They're not making those decisions ... on what spri- which sprinkler company. Some dude in an office that wears loafers makes those decisions. So, like, Durham is nuts.

[00:37:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, they're, they're, I mean, they're difficult just, like, their, their permitting process takes a long time.

They don't use multi-trade inspectors. Oh, yeah. A multi-trade inspector can come out and check your plumbing, electrical, and building all at the same time. Um, they do individual trades. You can only schedule plumbing and electrical on the same day. Oh, wow. Then you have to wait for those to pass before you can schedule your framing, and then schedule- Oh

your insulation after. In a new construction home, that makes sense.

[00:37:43] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:37:43] Speaker 3: Right?

[00:37:44] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:37:44] Speaker 3: In a remodel, not

[00:37:46] Speaker: so much. That doesn't make any sense.

[00:37:46] Speaker 3: Right? Most of our jobs, we're not doing, uh, s- many structural changes. Yeah. We might be taking out a wall. Yeah. It's a non-load-bearing wall, right?

[00:37:54] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:37:54] Speaker 3: And so our framing is usually minimal.

Insulation inspections- Yeah ... are usually not even needed- Right ... because we're not doing anything with the insulation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but we still have to do four days worth of inspections- Oh my gosh ... for something where other jurisdictions will do it in one day.

[00:38:10] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah,

[00:38:10] Speaker 3: no. So it just adds to the process.

So

[00:38:12] Speaker 2: listen, if you live in Durham,

[00:38:14] Speaker: a- add some patience to your budget.

[00:38:16] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[00:38:18] Speaker: Okay, so you're tell- You give us a schedule. You're like, "All right, here's the days." And then the, does the customer kinda communicate with you, "I want more communication, I want less communication," or do you just kinda suss it out?

[00:38:29] Speaker 3: You suss it out.

[00:38:30] Speaker: Okay.

[00:38:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, you can kinda feel, like, everybody's got their, you know, unique personalities. Yeah. So, a- and that's fine, so you just have to know how to deal with your client- Yeah ... in order to give them the correct information. Um- We communicate extra on the ones that we need to, or if anything comes up or changes- Yeah

they're gonna know. If one of the guys is stuck in traffic and they're not gonna be there until 8:00- Yeah ... like, they're gonna get an email notification- Oh, okay ... like, "Hey, just so you know- Yeah ... he's running a little late. Don't think we're not showing up." Yeah. Like, this is what's going on. Or he had to- That's awesome

stop and pick up some materials- Yeah ... or whatever the case is. Um, so they get those communications throughout. Their, uh, main point of contact is gonna be the project manager- Right ... from that point on. But if there's ever any questions or anything, they can reach me.

[00:39:12] Speaker: Okay.

[00:39:12] Speaker 3: Obviously, if there's any questions that the project manager can't, um, answer for anything like design-specific questions- Right

are gonna come to me. Okay. So, if something has to change, if we open up a wall and there's a gas line in there where we were supposed to have a recessed niche-

[00:39:25] Speaker: Okay ...

[00:39:25] Speaker 3: then that has to get- Right ... um, changed. Things happen. The layouts have to change. Right. That's gonna come through me, so.

[00:39:30] Speaker: Okay. So, you were saying delivery- Mm-hmm

day is a week. So does that mean that you don't start a project until you have all the materials?

[00:39:38] Speaker 3: Yeah. Ooh. So as soon as we sign our contract, we order all the materials, we stage everything in our warehouse. Ooh. And so, um, we don't start a job until we have everything on hand. Okay. We have a whole inspection pro- Like, we go through three checks to make sure- Yeah

that everything, all the parts are there, the finishes are right. Yeah. Obviously, we can't test a faucet, right? Right, right, right. So there's still things that could be wrong with it. Yeah. Um, it's rare, but- Yeah ... there's always a possibility of that. That, and

[00:40:03] Speaker: like, I know you still have to measure for granite and stuff like that.

Like, how does that work? So,

[00:40:07] Speaker 3: in a kitchen, yes.

[00:40:08] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:40:09] Speaker 3: In a bathroom, not usually. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because we know our bathroom, or our cabinet sizes- Right. Yeah ... so we can pre-order those.

[00:40:14] Speaker: Okay.

[00:40:15] Speaker 3: Kitchen, yes, definitely. It has to be templated. So

[00:40:16] Speaker: that's a little bit of a slowdown in a kitchen, 'cause it has to- Yes

you, they have to set the cabinets. Template, and then, right. They come out, they do a template, and then that has to be cut.

[00:40:24] Speaker 3: Right.

[00:40:24] Speaker: It's not crazy. Like, we, we had a home on a horror story a couple months ago where, think it was like a six-week delay- Mm-hmm ... for the, maybe it was... It was a crazy amount of time.

Six weeks actually doesn't sound super nuts. I mean, it sounds nuts, but-

[00:40:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, in the overall scheme.

[00:40:39] Speaker: Yeah, the scope, it's just kind of nuts. And it was the, the guy, I think the guy just never ordered the granite. Mm-hmm. And he tried to make it be the... So, so it's an interest- It's important to know that like, how, so on average, how long does it take from template to granite install?

[00:40:54] Speaker 3: Uh, usually about two weeks.

[00:40:55] Speaker: Okay.

[00:40:56] Speaker 3: So, it's-

[00:40:56] Speaker: So two weeks is your average. Yeah. Unless you're ordering like Carrera marble.

[00:41:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, even if- She's like, "

[00:41:02] Speaker 2: Even

[00:41:02] Speaker: then."

[00:41:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, 'cause you know what material you're getting, right? Yeah. So if you as the contractor are doing your job properly, you've already made sure that the fabricator has those slabs on hand.

Oh. So once it's templated-

[00:41:14] Speaker: Okay ...

[00:41:15] Speaker 3: they can just put it into the- Yeah ... production line to start cutting it. Uh, so most larger, uh, countertop companies are gonna do- Yeah ... about two weeks. Some will, some will be one week.

[00:41:27] Speaker: Okay.

[00:41:28] Speaker 3: So, it just depends. Okay. The smaller ones can usually do one week. They're just not as busy- Yeah

so they have less of a, a,

[00:41:35] Speaker: you know, rigid timeline. I feel it's like this idea of going under contract having selected all of your materials is kind of the move. Mm-hmm. It's like, don't go under contract with allowances. Like- Yeah ... you can let allowances be part of, I think, a proposal.

But when you're going under contract- Yeah ... it seems to me like not, you can't have allowances in there.

[00:41:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, and, I mean, as a contractor too, I don't know, I like order and-

[00:42:04] Speaker: Yeah ...

[00:42:04] Speaker 3: like, things to be done and know ev- all my boxes are checked. Um, but I wouldn't want to have to then rely on that client- Right ... to make those decisions- Right

because that timeline-

[00:42:17] Speaker: Is gonna push everything out ...

[00:42:18] Speaker 3: right. Yeah. Some people get it all done in a week, and some people need three months. Yeah. And it's like- Yeah ... you know, I wanna get this job done. Right. I wanna get you started and get you back to your life. Yeah. And so we get people a lot of the time that come into our showroom, they're like, "I'm doing a bathroom remodel.

My contractor told me I have to find tile or I have to find cabinets or faucets or whatever." Oh, yeah. And so they're coming in looking for materials, and you know, we're not a- And you're like, "We're not a materials supplier" ... yeah, we don't-

[00:42:41] Speaker: Yeah ...

[00:42:42] Speaker 3: sell anything. But I'm like, "You should've came to us, you know-

[00:42:45] Speaker: Yeah

[00:42:46] Speaker 3: a month ago."

[00:42:47] Speaker: Yeah, yeah. But

[00:42:47] Speaker 3: yeah, and that's, that's hard. That's hard to see people who are like, "I just don't know" or- Yeah ... you know, especially if it is a, a contractor that doesn't have a showroom or doesn't even at least help with that. Like, so- Right ... giving allowances isn't the worst thing if you're gonna assist with that selection process.

Right,

[00:43:04] Speaker: right.

[00:43:05] Speaker 3: But just leaving them blind, homeowners then have to run all over the place and- Yeah ... you know, hope that they find material that works. I was in, um, the tile shop not that long ago, and I was just looking for new samples- Yeah ... and stuff, wanted to see some things. Dude, the tile shop

[00:43:22] Speaker: is where you go to spend your entire life

[00:43:24] Speaker 3: savings.

Yeah,

[00:43:25] Speaker: it's amazing. Ev- everything in there is like, "Oh, my God, this is

[00:43:27] Speaker 2: amazing." Yeah.

[00:43:28] Speaker: And then you're like, "It costs how much?"

[00:43:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, so I was looking at stuff. While I was waiting there to check out the samples I was taking, there was a homeowner there who was working with somebody- Yeah ... who was, you know, they were picking out materials, and they thought they knew how much square footage they need.

Yeah. But they weren't really sure 'cause the contractor hadn't provided it, and then the salesperson is asking like, "Do you need bullnose? Do you need Schluter? Do you need tr-" Yeah,

[00:43:50] Speaker: and you're like, "I

[00:43:51] Speaker 3: have no idea." Do you know what any of that is? No. Right, like, homeowners don't know what that is. Okay. So they're like, "I, I don't know."

Yeah. You know? And like, I felt so bad for them- Yeah ... that they're, like, going in blind

[00:44:01] Speaker: The dude who shows up, he does some measurements, he gives you a number.

No materials are selected, and they kind of make you think that this number is gonna be the number you pay. Yeah. Like, you're good. Oh, you had a budget of $45,000? Well, guess what? I'm gonna quote you $42,000 and you're gonna feel like this is a great idea- Yeah ... because it's under your budget. Yeah. But at the end of the day, and this is such a good point, if you don't have in your contract the materials that you are using when you sign that contract, there's no way that that number is the end number.

[00:44:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:44:39] Speaker: I mean, it could be more, it could be less. It's probably always gonna be more. It's gonna be more. It- But that's the thing to understand is when you're really getting serious about doing a kitchen or a bathroom renovation, or honestly anything, if you don't have the exact product selected, there's no way that that number that you got is gonna be the same number you pay at the end of the day.

[00:44:59] Speaker 3: And you can always spot a homeowner that's been, like, burnt by a contractor. Yeah. I had, um, I signed a contract with somebody a couple weeks ago, and we're talking about- Yeah ... the whole scope of the project, what electrical work, what plumbing work, and like everything that came up, the husband would be like, "So we gotta find our own electrician to do that?

We-" You're like, "No." "No, no, you don't have to do any of that stuff. I take care of that." Talk to the next topic. "Oh, so we gotta find our own person to do the painting?" Yeah. And I was like, "Nope." Yeah. "So you don't have to do anything." Like,

[00:45:24] Speaker 2: no, no, really. It's all-

[00:45:25] Speaker 3: I've got it all handled. We're gonna do it. He's

[00:45:28] Speaker: like, "Okay."

That's what I do. Okay. So when, I guess here's another thing. Timeline. So you guys, I think it's a, an amazing standard, and you might not be able to find this everywhere. But I think the standard we should be shooting for as homeowners that are renovating our kitchen and bathrooms is, one, we're saying, "All right.

I'm not going under contract unless, until all my materials have been selected. Oh, and also, I'm not letting you demo my house until you have all the materials," with the exception of potentially granite or the, your countertops. Yeah. 'Cause that- Or shower

[00:46:01] Speaker 2: glass ...

[00:46:01] Speaker: shower glass. 'Cause that's custom. 'Cause that stuff has to be measured once everything's in place.

Yeah. But you should be able to demo my house and then immediately start doing the next step because you already have the mater- materials. I love that as a standard, okay? We're not going under contract. I'm not pay- You know, agreeing to this number until we have all the materials you... Because then you, the contractor can't come back and say, "Well, you didn't tell us what you wanted, so we just assumed you wanted this."

Right. "And then you came back and said you wanted this, but it was $20,000 more."

[00:46:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:46:32] Speaker: So it's like in the contract it has the materials, it has the types. But then the other thing is we're not starting until you have the materials, but then what's the timeline? Because that's the thing too, is you have a really tight timeline- Yeah

because you, you know what you're doing. So what can people reasonably expect on like a, a en suite, like the, what are we calling it now? Primary. A primary suite. I don't know. Just wanna be politically correct. I also don't wanna upset the witches. So like h- what is the average timeline for like, you know, like it has the two sinks- Yeah

and the tub and the shower.

[00:47:11] Speaker 3: So our jobs from demo to completion of everything short of shower glass- Okay ... is about two and a half weeks.

[00:47:20] Speaker: Y'all.

[00:47:20] Speaker 3: Glass gets measured. That usually takes two to three weeks more- Okay ... to come in. So- And that's

[00:47:25] Speaker: like-

[00:47:25] Speaker 3: All in all-

[00:47:26] Speaker: That's not s- like signed contract. No. That's to when we started?

Or- Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's like you sign your contract, you pick out all your selections. They get their materials ordered, and from demo- Right ... to, like, we've measured for the glass.

[00:47:40] Speaker 3: Yeah. Two and a half weeks.

[00:47:41] Speaker: Two and a half weeks. Y'all. You might be watching this going, "That's not real." She does it every day.

[00:47:49] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:47:49] Speaker: Like, Google her. Yeah. Like, she's got great Google reviews. People are thrilled. She actually completes these in two and a half weeks. So a lot of times we'll post stuff, and contractors, you know, the Bobs of the world will come into the comments and be like, "That's not real." Nope. She does it every day.

Yeah.

[00:48:06] Speaker 3: It's what we do.

[00:48:07] Speaker: So two and a half weeks. When you're working with a general contractor that knows what they're doing, that's not gonna demo your house until they have all the, the materials to start doing the work, it should only take two and a half weeks.

[00:48:19] Speaker 3: And has the team in place to- ... be able to schedule.

Yeah. That's, that's a big part of it, right? Yeah. So if they're using subcontractors- Yeah ... it's harder for a contractor to coordinate that.

[00:48:29] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:48:30] Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. So you don't get quite as concrete of a, a start date when you first- Right ... sign, right? Right, 'cause- So if you sign a contract with me, I can tell you what date we're starting.

It's usually within a day or two. Yeah. Right? We might finish up a job a day or two early. We might need an extra day. Yeah. Um, but for the most part, it's within, within a day or two of what I tell you we're gonna start, that's when we're gonna start. And you're

[00:48:48] Speaker: always gonna know if there's a delay. Yes.

You're not just, you're not gonna think, "Oh, today's demo day," and just nobody shows up. You're gonna know in advance something happened. Yeah. It's gonna be tomorrow.

[00:48:57] Speaker 3: Yeah. Almost too much in advance sometimes, right? Yeah. Like, we might book six to eight weeks in advance- Yeah ... for s- like, you know- Yeah ... busiest season.

[00:49:05] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:49:05] Speaker 3: And so if I know at week three that this job I'm currently working on is behind a day or two- Yeah ... and it's gonna have a ripple effect- Yeah ... I'm letting all of those future clients know. Down team know. Like, "Hey- Yeah ... this is what's going on right now. It might happen." Yeah. "It might not. We'll keep you posted," so that- Yeah

they have the updates.

[00:49:27] Speaker: Okay. So, okay, for, so for kitchen, obviously kitchens are different- Yeah ... because kitchens can be huge. Like, your average primary suite is pretty much the same. They can be ... I mean, if you live in a monster house, it can be kinda wild. But I know kitchens can be. But let's just say your average, I don't know.

What's the average square footage of a kitchen? Like, in your mind, you must have, like, a this is the kind of kitchen we see the most.

[00:49:53] Speaker 3: Yeah. So, um- We just did my kitchen.

[00:50:00] Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Tell us. Yes. Oh my God, I have to see pictures of this, 'cause I can only imagine your renovation.

[00:50:05] Speaker 3: So, yeah, so living- First of all, it's a Shacks Reno.

So

living in it, uh, and living through it- Yeah ... is very different than running it. Facts. Right? So I can appreciate some pain as the homeowner. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was at the four-week mark like, "You guys need to get out of my house." Like, "Get your

[00:50:26] Speaker 4: shit

[00:50:26] Speaker 3: and get out." Yeah. Now, to be fair, being the owner, being the designer- Yeah

and being the homeowner living through it, I was on the job 24/7, right? Right, right, right. Yeah. I woke up, I was at the job site. Yeah. I came home, I was at the job site. Yeah. And so it was a little different living through it like that. Right.

[00:50:41] Speaker: Right, right.

[00:50:42] Speaker 3: Um, but my project took about six weeks.

[00:50:45] Speaker: Okay.

[00:50:46] Speaker 3: And it was a pretty big job.

Yeah. Yeah. Right? So we didn't really relocate too many appliances. I did, I will admittedly say I am my own worst customer.

[00:50:55] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure.

[00:50:56] Speaker 3: Um, one, I know all the materials- Yeah. ... and all the stuff, and so I would do a design- You know

[00:51:00] Speaker 2: too

[00:51:01] Speaker 3: much. Yeah. I, I did a design, I would send it to my husband, I'd be like, "This is the layout."

And he'd be like, "Cool." And then like two days later, I'd be like, "Okay, wait." Change it. "We're changing it. This is what we're doing."

[00:51:10] Speaker 2: He's like, "Stop CC'ing me." Yeah. "I don't care."

[00:51:11] Speaker 3: He's, "I don't care. Just tell me when it's done." Um, and so like the day before we started construction, I was like, "Oh, I don't think the microwave should..."

I, I went from a microwave, oven combo- Yeah ... wall microwave, oven combo- Yeah, yeah ... to a double oven and then a microwave off to the side.

[00:51:26] Speaker 2: Okay.

[00:51:27] Speaker 3: And like the day before I started, I was like, "Oh, I don't want the microwave there. I'm gonna move it over here instead." And like- I'm sure you did ... I didn't think through some of the things- Yeah.

Oh ... that that was gonna affect. Okay. And so then when it came time for microwave install, I was like, "Oh, this microwave doesn't work."

[00:51:41] Speaker 2: Oh.

[00:51:41] Speaker 3: It happens. Yeah. It happened in my home, right? Yeah. Just put it out there. So-

[00:51:44] Speaker 2: So she as a homeowner screwed herself up.

[00:51:46] Speaker 3: I did, right. And-

[00:51:47] Speaker 2: And this is a, okay, that make, that's fair.

Yeah. And so

[00:51:50] Speaker 3: like- Like, that's like, "Oh, shit" ... this is something that like I wouldn't t- to be fair, I probably would not have let, let a homeowner- Right ... make a change the day- That late ... before the job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would be like, "Listen," Yeah. You're like, "No." ... "this is gonna have too many-" Yeah. "Cabinets are gonna have to change."

Yeah. And there's, right, so it probably wouldn't happen in real life- Yeah ... but in my home, yes.

[00:52:06] Speaker: Well, I'm sure it happens in real life for people who don't work with contractors who know better.

[00:52:11] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:52:11] Speaker: Like, so it would just, it may cause a ripple effect which would then just cause the homeowner to pay more money.

Yeah, it would definitely cause more- 'Cause the general contractor's only gonna pass that cost along. Yeah.

[00:52:20] Speaker 3: And delays. Yeah. It's

[00:52:21] Speaker: one of those things where sometimes when a general contractor says no, they're doing you a favor. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a favor in the moment, but when you don't have to turn around and pay thousands of dollars to reroute something because you wanted to move

[00:52:32] Speaker 2: the microwave- Yes

the day before, like- Yes. Yeah ... you're like, "Oh, thanks for looking out."

[00:52:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:52:38] Speaker 2: Turns out you know what you're doing.

[00:52:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. You might be right there.

[00:52:40] Speaker 2: That's funny.

[00:52:41] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, but yeah, so that took six weeks. Okay. Um, I will say it probably should have taken five weeks, but it fell over Fourth of July holiday. Oh.

[00:52:50] Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:52:51] Speaker 3: And so my countertop install, um, got pushed back an extra week because- Okay ... they were closed that week.

[00:52:57] Speaker: Yeah, yeah.

[00:52:57] Speaker 3: So it should probably would've been about five weeks for that. Okay. And that's kinda the average that we're looking at.

[00:53:02] Speaker: Yeah. I mean, we're getting people writing in, saying that their kitchen renovation took six months.

[00:53:09] Speaker 3: Yes, I've heard that ...

[00:53:09] Speaker: and that's, and it's, and I think that's honestly pretty common. Like, and it's one of those things where it's like I'm sure that you could hire somebody for $20,000 less, um, that is giving you this... It's like what do you value? Do you value the, the minimum amount of disruption to your life?

[00:53:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:53:30] Speaker: Or is it, so like is that worth... And at the end of the day, I guarantee you somebody who's $20,000 under is, uh, very unlikely going to end up that way. Yeah. Like- Yeah ... we, we deal with this all the time w- with our competitors. I don't call them competitors, 'cause I just don't feel like anybody actually competes with me.

I'm just like, try to do what I do. Try it. But they'll always come in lower than us. Mm-hmm. And then at the end of the job they turn around and they've s- you know, added $100,000- Yeah ... worth of change orders. And I'm like, "Well, how's that, how's that $50,000 under me working out for you?" Right. Yeah. You know? And it's just like one of those things.

So it doesn't... Sometimes it can be, but it's rare that somebody that's, that's that low is gonna end that low.

[00:54:12] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:54:13] Speaker: So, okay. So what is the thing for you that if, you're talk, you're, you're communicating with our amazing viewers right now. Mm-hmm. What is your thing as a general contractor where you're like, "This is the biggest red flag.

Like, avoid this at all costs"? I didn't prep her for this guys

[00:54:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. Not being specific.

[00:54:34] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:54:35] Speaker 3: Right? Not having enough information. So like we saw in the video, right? Yep. There were two very distinct ways to handle that.

[00:54:41] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:54:42] Speaker 3: Be sarcastic, be rude, or be informative. Deadpan the

[00:54:44] Speaker: camera.

[00:54:46] Speaker 3: Or be informative. Right.

So there's nothing wrong with asking questions. There's nothing wrong with information. Uh, your contract should have as much information as possible- Yeah ... in there. Um, to touch back on something you mentioned before, if something gets delayed or damaged or defective, you shouldn't be paying for that.

[00:55:05] Speaker: 100%.

Oh, Nicole, since you're here, this is my favorite thing that irritates the in- all the men on, on the Instagrams. If you fail an inspection, who pays for that?

[00:55:18] Speaker 3: If we fail an inspection because we did something

[00:55:22] Speaker: wrong- Because you did something wrong Not because- We pay that ... the homeowner changed something, that's on them Right

but if you did something wrong and you failed an inspection.

[00:55:28] Speaker 3: We take care of that. It's on us. We have to make it right. We have to pay the re-inspection fee.

[00:55:34] Speaker: Oh.

[00:55:34] Speaker 3: All of that stuff is covered. And if,

[00:55:36] Speaker: if materials need to be purchased, do you pay for those materials?

[00:55:39] Speaker 3: We pay for those materials as lo- again, as long as it's something- Yeah

that we caused. Now, if the h- something in the existing home- Right ... did not meet code requirements- Yeah ... and that requires

[00:55:48] Speaker: additional work- And that's a fair distinction Yeah. That is a fair distinction, especially in a renovation, right? Where it's like you're coming into and you're working. There could've been five renovations done in that house- Yeah

before you show up, and you don't know if everybody did everything right. But if an inspector comes in and says, "Hey, this needs to be fixed," and it's not work that your general contractor did, but it has to get fixed in order to pass, okay.

[00:56:10] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:56:11] Speaker: That's a reasonable thing to go back to the homeowner and say, "Hey, listen, this is where we're at.

This is how much it's gonna cost." But if it is work that your general contractor did and it failed- Yeah,

[00:56:22] Speaker 2: that's

[00:56:22] Speaker: on the GC ... it does not matter. It is never your f- your financial responsibility. It's just not. Yeah. And this is the, the number one thing that pisses people off. Okay. So, uh, our hope here is that you guys, the homeowners, can take away from this a couple of important pieces of information.

Your, when you go and you're engaging with a general contractor, one, you're getting a crazy amount of information. So your quote has all the materials on it that's gonna be used. They're gonna tell you what the timeline is gonna be. They're gonna give you a truly insane amount of information. You're not signing any contracts until you have all the materials that you're gonna use selected and priced out.

Because that protects you later when they come back and say, "Oh, it costs more." Well, that, that's not my problem. We agreed to this before I signed the contract. Yeah. That's on you, general contractor. So you're not going into it, and you're not allowing people to do demo work in your house until all the materials

I think this is kind of the biggest takeaway of today's episode. Don't let them demo until the materials are sitting in your garage. Because that, that's the, that's where everybody goes off track. They do the demo- They do ... and then they, the house sits for six weeks.

[00:57:40] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, a lot of contractors, like, steal from Peter to pay Paul.

Yes. That thing, right? Yeah. And so they're taking your initial payment, they're using that to buy the materials for the next job. For the n- for the, yeah. Then they start that job, get a payment from them. Yes. Move on to the next, and now you're just sitting there lingering- Yeah ... until they get back to you.

[00:57:57] Speaker: Yeah. So it's like we're not ... Our new thing, new rule, we're not doing demo until you have the materials here to start the next day. I love this. I feel like we need to have Nicole back on more. So listen, if you guys have had a crazy story, you've, you've, you've lived through a renovation that checks a lot of the boxes we've talked about today, it may seem repetitive, but we still want to hear.

Because every time we share a homeowner horror story, there's, like, a little unique piece. Like the last episode that we did, um, the homeowners found out that there was an existing mold issue.

[00:58:33] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:58:33] Speaker: And the homeowners that sold them the house didn't disclose it, but were in active litigation with the builder.

I heard that episode. I mean. Yeah. I'm, that st- that make, I'm tr- It's crazy ... trying to keep my vein from popping in my forehead, 'cause that makes me so daggone angry. So she, she, that's such a great bit of information that we wouldn't have learned if, if she hadn't thought, "You know what? Even though this story's been told before, let me share what happened to me."

Because there's just always this little piece of information that helps everybody get a little bit more knowledge, and be a little bit better, and have a little bit better of an experience. So if you have a crazy story, if you're a homeowner and you have a crazy story, if you're a general contractor and you have a crazy story, we want to hear about it.

You can go to chicksinconstruction.com. You scroll down. There's a little form. You s- fill it out. You clickity clack, clack, clack. Mm-hmm. Send it to me, and then you'll be on the pod anonymously, because even, like, the, we just, Jess won't say people's names. Mm-hmm. She just won't. And then one time I said somebody's name.

She goes, "Mickey!" She's like, "Jo, edit that out." And I was like, "Whoa, whoa." She takes your s- your privacy very seriously. So we would love it if you would share that with us. And also, please like and subscribe. We're trying to grow the pod. We're trying, we're trying new things out. We're mixing it up. Do we like the whole re- reacting to jerk faces on Instagram?

I don't know. Let us know down below. Little li- a little thumbs up would let us know. A little subscribe moment will let us know. You can leave a comment, just be nice. Like, I'm just... The world is a crazy place, guys. Like, we don't... Don't be part of the problem, you know what I'm saying? If you want to be part of the collective, you can go to our socials.

Um, listen, this is Jess's job, so Joe's just gonna put where our socials are- ... here. Here's where you're gonna find them. Check us out. Apparently, TikTok is where, is a lot of action's happening, on TikTok, so check us out on there. Maybe leave a nice comment. You know, your mother's watching, so- Yeah. ... choose wisely.

All right, guys, we love you and we'll see you next time. Bye.

Bye.