WEBVTT
00:00:09.762 --> 00:00:13.542
Hello and welcome back for another episode of Catching Up with EVOGK.
00:00:15.423 --> 00:00:20.103
I'm Paul Banks and today's guest is the amazing Jonny Maddison.
00:00:20.763 --> 00:00:48.154
So Jonny brings a mix of real playing experience along with modern coaching insight, and does that at Sunderland AFC, Jonny's a Sunderland Academy graduate himself, and went on to play as a professional goalkeeper across the EFL and the National League System clubs including Crawley Town, Leicester City, Yeovil, Darlington, Port Vale, and he was part of the Leicester City setup during their Premier League title era.
00:00:48.213 --> 00:00:50.014
So lots of tales, I'm sure.
00:00:50.914 --> 00:00:57.213
Made 22 appearances for Yeovil Town and then later returned closer to home with Darlington, before moving into coaching.
00:00:57.487 --> 00:01:05.647
now he's back at Sunderland, jonny works with the club's young goalkeepers, or has done till recently helping shape the next generation through the academy Pathway.
00:01:06.617 --> 00:01:21.837
His Role focuses on supporting goalkeeper development across the academy and developing a clear route for young players to progress their careers and until recently where Jonny has now moved into working more directly with Neil Cutler and the first team goalkeepers as well.
00:01:22.587 --> 00:01:33.897
we'll cover that as part of the questions, but going back to what I've just said, I think what makes Jonny's perspective, as far as this podcast concerned so valuable is that he's lived both sides of the journey.
00:01:33.986 --> 00:01:40.417
So he's been that professional level goalkeeper, he's done it at the highest levels, involved with clubs winning the Premier League.
00:01:40.826 --> 00:01:42.507
There's not much more that you can say to that.
00:01:44.216 --> 00:01:49.106
but then also moving into the coaching environment and working with all the age groups from the young goalkeepers.
00:01:49.106 --> 00:01:55.376
And if you're a regular on match days at Sunderland, and you'll see Jonny stepping out on the pitch and warming the first team keepers up on match days as well.
00:01:56.787 --> 00:01:57.807
lots and lots to cover.
00:01:57.816 --> 00:01:59.546
Jonny, thank you very much for coming along.
00:01:59.546 --> 00:01:59.826
Thank you.
00:01:59.826 --> 00:02:01.167
You Genuinely a pleasure.
00:02:01.527 --> 00:02:01.887
Brilliant.
00:02:04.257 --> 00:02:20.137
and I'm pleased you've recovered because as we record this, we are not sure when this episode's gonna go out, but, less than 48 hours ago, Sunderland qualified for the Europa, having finished seventh in the Premier League, my voice is just about recovered.
00:02:20.396 --> 00:02:31.657
Jonny's head is just about been screwed back onto his shoulders to be able to do a to And, on top of that, he's on a full day's coaching sessions with EVO at the beacon of light.
00:02:32.736 --> 00:02:34.967
no doubt your head is absolutely battered, Jonny.
00:02:35.287 --> 00:02:37.651
And, if you need to take a moment during your
00:02:37.951 --> 00:02:39.967
question, I'm just delighted to sit down if I'm brutally honest.
00:02:39.967 --> 00:02:46.627
It's, it's been a, it's been a really, fun, 9 hours, so no, really glad to be here.
00:02:47.076 --> 00:02:47.556
Amazing.
00:02:48.697 --> 00:02:57.586
so as i do with all of the goalkeepers and the coaches that we speak to, before we get into your journey, I'd like to just ask, who was your Goalkeeping idol growing up?
00:02:57.895 --> 00:03:06.378
Truthfully, I don't think this one's gonna go down too well, because I looked at it when you gave me the question initially and I said, am I gonna be truthful here?
00:03:06.378 --> 00:03:07.368
And I am gonna be truthful.
00:03:07.368 --> 00:03:07.699
Good.
00:03:07.998 --> 00:03:12.990
Shay given was my idol growing up when Newcastle were in the Champions League.
00:03:13.469 --> 00:03:22.770
I just thought the way he conducted himself around the goal, how reactive he was under his crossbar, and some of the big moments here you'd see him make, was amazing.
00:03:23.009 --> 00:03:37.620
I'd say from a, local sense and seeing him live, that was definitely someone who I looked up to moving more into, me as a player, I would say Joe Hart was very influential in that, in a sense of the England goalkeeper.
00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:38.159
Yeah.
00:03:38.819 --> 00:03:46.680
Joe in his prime was a beast in a sense of what he was psychologically, physically, and then also his game output as well.
00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:48.000
Is he really calm, wasn't he?
00:03:48.150 --> 00:03:48.569
just
00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:49.509
Yeah.
00:03:50.550 --> 00:03:53.860
I'm not gonna lie, I had a soft spot for Shay Given when I was a kid as well.
00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:58.180
obviously he spent his time here and, we have a, long history of really good goalkeepers here at Sunderland.
00:03:59.789 --> 00:04:01.349
so I'm really not surprised.
00:04:01.693 --> 00:04:04.183
I mentioned at the beginning that you came through the Academy of Light yourself.
00:04:04.243 --> 00:04:04.424
Yeah.
00:04:05.054 --> 00:04:08.104
what do you remember most clearly about being a young keeper at Sunderland?
00:04:08.707 --> 00:04:10.377
The amount of times I was there.
00:04:11.157 --> 00:04:11.697
Really.
00:04:11.828 --> 00:04:15.026
I think even in, in the game today, you see it within the academy.
00:04:15.597 --> 00:04:18.807
it's a real investment from not only the player but from the families.
00:04:19.377 --> 00:04:29.877
And I think the amount of hours you spend dedicating to your craft for an outcome that is not guaranteed is really difficult.
00:04:30.627 --> 00:04:37.396
and to be in the system from 9-year-old, believe it or not, I started playing for my local team as an outfielder at 9 years old, Yeah.
00:04:37.396 --> 00:04:37.916
8, 9 years old.
00:04:37.916 --> 00:04:42.476
My dad was the manager, kinda, the old cliche in that sense.
00:04:42.476 --> 00:04:42.627
Yeah.
00:04:42.656 --> 00:04:43.797
The goalkeeper had left.
00:04:44.607 --> 00:04:49.677
I was some lanky tall bean pole playing in the middle of the park.
00:04:49.737 --> 00:04:52.976
And my dad just went in you go son into the Russell Foster.
00:04:53.067 --> 00:04:55.826
And it was, it was actually a tournament we were playing in.
00:04:55.826 --> 00:05:01.826
And the opposite, manager had to rank the opposition goalkeeper out of 10.
00:05:01.826 --> 00:05:04.406
And that kind of score was collated at the end of the tournament.
00:05:04.766 --> 00:05:08.276
And it just so happened on that day that I'd scored the highest points.
00:05:08.906 --> 00:05:16.007
so I'm standing there collecting this trophy and, a Sunderland scout comes up to me and goes, how long you been playing in goal, son?
00:05:16.437 --> 00:05:19.406
And I went about five hours.
00:05:19.947 --> 00:05:23.487
And he was like, oh, would you like to come in for a trial?
00:05:24.057 --> 00:05:27.297
And back in those days it was the old like 6 to 8 week trial process.
00:05:27.747 --> 00:05:39.906
And, I actually only played 2 games at under 9's and straight away my mam and dad were in, they were taking me, they took me for a tour on the academy and basically just sat me down do you know why your here son?
00:05:39.906 --> 00:05:42.057
And I was like, no, not really.
00:05:42.086 --> 00:05:44.156
And he was like, oh, we'd to sign you.
00:05:44.637 --> 00:05:47.666
And literally, I hadn't looked back since then.
00:05:47.966 --> 00:05:48.297
Amazing.
00:05:48.927 --> 00:05:56.786
so really, unique space I was in with regards to the 10 years at the football club within the academy that I had.
00:05:58.557 --> 00:06:04.617
the cohort of goalkeepers we worked with over the span of the 10 years was remarkable.
00:06:04.617 --> 00:06:13.706
And I think that's credit to Mark Prudhoe, who again, needs no introduction in a sense of me, myself working alongside him now as a coach, but him being my coach as well.
00:06:14.007 --> 00:06:14.127
Yeah.
00:06:14.516 --> 00:06:22.047
in the early days, really giving me that, that core foundation to go and have a career in the game as well as many others.
00:06:22.505 --> 00:06:24.475
And so what age were you?
00:06:24.504 --> 00:06:26.024
'cause you were released eventually by Sunderland.
00:06:26.949 --> 00:06:27.810
in 2013.
00:06:27.810 --> 00:06:28.810
So what age group were you?
00:06:29.009 --> 00:06:30.805
I was the end, my end of my second year scholar.
00:06:31.110 --> 00:06:31.329
So
00:06:31.629 --> 00:06:34.428
it was, A difficult moment naturally.
00:06:34.488 --> 00:06:37.519
It was my first release, suddenly had been my club for 10 years.
00:06:38.298 --> 00:06:43.069
We lived in, the local area, 20 minute commute five times a week.
00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:44.689
I was getting outta school twice a week.
00:06:44.749 --> 00:06:50.838
I trained with the first team, I trained with, the old reserve teams had been exposed to an array of different things.
00:06:50.838 --> 00:06:56.269
And then that can soon end in a, 20 minute conversation just before the new Year period.
00:06:56.838 --> 00:07:04.129
I think thankfully, again, I'll echo that Pruds, had, a secondary plan for me.
00:07:04.488 --> 00:07:08.629
he thought I needed to go and experience the efl.
00:07:09.528 --> 00:07:14.269
and thankfully I went into League one as a, number 2 at just 18 years old.
00:07:14.658 --> 00:07:17.418
And our first game was live on sky away to Swindon.
00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:18.918
which I'll never forget.
00:07:18.918 --> 00:07:27.259
I sat on the bench, but in, in the moment as a second year scholar, it was just from academy football straight into the senior game and it was just sink or swim.
00:07:27.259 --> 00:07:39.619
And I think it, it didn't allow me a lot of time to reflect on the, downsides or the negative aspect of the release and just allowed me to just go, straight into the professional game,
00:07:40.249 --> 00:07:44.329
which I can imagine that that's really important to have that, plan B lined up.
00:07:44.329 --> 00:07:47.629
Because I'd imagine there's a lot of players out there that take that really personally.
00:07:48.983 --> 00:07:53.718
or it's, there's potential to take it really personally and, reflect on you're just not good enough.
00:07:54.228 --> 00:07:55.249
But that's not the case, is it?
00:07:55.249 --> 00:07:56.778
It's not the way it's worked.
00:07:56.869 --> 00:07:57.079
Yeah.
00:07:57.468 --> 00:08:01.879
I, think naively like I could sit here now and go, yeah, I had a plan B, but I didn't.
00:08:02.238 --> 00:08:11.689
And I think you'll probably asking 90% of players now at that age, you don't have a plan B because your ego's telling you and you were telling yourself, I'm gonna be a footballer.
00:08:11.689 --> 00:08:11.749
Yeah.
00:08:11.863 --> 00:08:19.668
And I think if you didn't have that mindset of that selfish mindset, I think the likelihood of you making it will be tough.
00:08:20.418 --> 00:08:21.199
It really would.
00:08:22.608 --> 00:08:25.819
because the game is more competitive now than ever.
00:08:26.293 --> 00:08:31.963
The amount of coaching and detail and opportunity and talent out there is ridiculous.
00:08:31.992 --> 00:08:36.822
and when you look at it, it's all gotta be crammed into the best league in the world of 20 teams.
00:08:36.852 --> 00:08:45.852
And you look that from a goalkeeper context, 20 teams of 3 goalkeepers, that's 60 spots in the world of all the ages that you need to be a part of.
00:08:45.852 --> 00:08:48.283
So when you look at the stat state and,
00:08:49.062 --> 00:08:53.082
and to your point, 2 of those, in each team are sat on the bench waiting for their moment.
00:08:53.082 --> 00:08:53.592
Exactly.
00:08:54.493 --> 00:08:55.123
Frightening.
00:08:55.572 --> 00:08:56.173
Frightening.
00:08:56.653 --> 00:09:00.552
And then obviously you, were at Leicester City as well, during.
00:09:00.748 --> 00:09:02.476
Something that's never happened before.
00:09:02.537 --> 00:09:06.736
During that period of time, what was, what, talk me through, how did you get to Leicester City?
00:09:06.736 --> 00:09:08.326
What was your role during that time?
00:09:08.326 --> 00:09:08.537
And
00:09:08.687 --> 00:09:15.017
so it was, it, actually worked out well for me doing the Crawley and the League one aspect first.
00:09:15.527 --> 00:09:29.057
so like I say, I think when I look back on my career as a whole, the academy, although I was there for 10 years and I got a great amount of detail, I think players sometimes sleep walk into a little bit of mediocracy or almost.
00:09:29.326 --> 00:09:41.596
and I'll open openly say that, when I look back at it and the release or the news were the best thing for me because it actually allowed me to reset and go again.
00:09:41.807 --> 00:09:52.937
I had 18 months of crawley and it was a real, experience in a sense of what league one football looked like and the not So glamorous aspects of it.
00:09:53.326 --> 00:10:06.886
So when I went back to Leicester and I was back in a football club that was really well resourced and had really good people around it, it was it was a bit of an epiphany in a sense of I'm not gonna let this go by any stretch.
00:10:06.886 --> 00:10:18.886
And, so the work rate knuckled down tenfold, and being around at the time Mike Stowell the goalkeeping coach, and we didn't have a lot of numbers in the PDP, which is your 18's and 21's phase.
00:10:19.456 --> 00:10:27.427
so Mike was very keen on integrating the under 21 boys or under 23 at the time with the first team.
00:10:27.866 --> 00:10:36.496
So to work on a daily basis with Mark Schwartzer, Kasper Schmeichel, Ben Hamer, was a real privilege for me.
00:10:37.937 --> 00:10:48.586
and like you say, the mindset of the football club at the time was, it was before the training ground before Seagrave came, the proud, of themselves under just hard work.
00:10:49.187 --> 00:10:52.096
it was a non-negotiable at the time, Nigel Pearson was a manager.
00:10:53.447 --> 00:10:55.157
and it suited me to the ground.
00:10:56.626 --> 00:11:06.647
like you say, for the kind of the 2 seasons I spent there, a real, array of, unforgettable memories, really looking back.
00:11:07.636 --> 00:11:13.897
I can only imagine, who, what you talked there about some of the senior goalkeepers that you worked alongside during your career.
00:11:16.356 --> 00:11:20.527
What's the, biggest learning point that you took in that phase when you are still a goalkeeper yourself?
00:11:20.527 --> 00:11:24.576
What's the biggest learning point that you took from more senior goalkeepers that you're around?
00:11:24.576 --> 00:11:28.297
What did you try and emulate from them that kind of made you better,
00:11:29.711 --> 00:11:44.580
I think I touched on it earlier and it's, a little bit of quiet arrogance and I call it quiet arrogance because, Neil talks about it again, and I know we'll touch on Neil in a little bit, but he's big on, a saying of, confidence on the verge of arrogance.
00:11:44.669 --> 00:11:57.240
And it's a real, fine line that you walk because in order to be top level and deal with the pressures of crowds, media expectation on a consistent basis, by the way, not just,
00:11:57.539 --> 00:11:57.779
yeah,
00:11:57.870 --> 00:12:05.546
once in a blue moon, you have to have a confidence or an ego about you that is gonna allow you to do that.
00:12:05.605 --> 00:12:17.275
But I think importantly, you look at the top, top athletes in the game, or, not even in football, just in sport in general, they have this really, high ego, but they balance it with an unbelievable humility.
00:12:17.546 --> 00:12:21.535
And I think to have that capacity to hold both is a real skill in
00:12:22.177 --> 00:12:38.846
I think that's something that's been echoed a lot by the other coaches that we've spoke to on the show as well, And I think it's almost ironic that for such a physical game, the key elements for so many players, and it's not just limited to goalkeepers and key elements for so many players are actually mental.
00:12:39.355 --> 00:12:46.285
And yet that's probably the part that nobody spends any time coaching people on at a young age.
00:12:46.735 --> 00:12:52.405
Or that sometimes that you can even coach into people'cause you've gotta, you've gotta come to that yourself as well, haven't you really?
00:12:52.975 --> 00:12:54.355
It's, either in you or it's not.
00:12:54.385 --> 00:12:54.596
Yeah.
00:12:54.655 --> 00:12:55.735
And it's like aggression, right?
00:12:56.426 --> 00:13:00.296
you can't, make a, an under 7, under 8 goalkeeper more aggressive at what they do.
00:13:00.296 --> 00:13:01.796
They've gotta come to that themselves.
00:13:02.057 --> 00:13:05.965
So you've found your way back to Sunderland, and was that intentional?
00:13:05.965 --> 00:13:09.355
Is that some, was that always part of what you wanted to do in the end?
00:13:09.745 --> 00:13:12.294
did you see yourself coming back to Sunderland eventually, or
00:13:12.595 --> 00:13:13.212
truthfully?
00:13:13.692 --> 00:13:15.013
No, I didn't.
00:13:15.133 --> 00:13:20.322
And truthfully, I didn't see myself when I transitioned out from playing as a coach.
00:13:21.552 --> 00:13:25.123
I knew I had detail and good understanding of what I wanted.
00:13:25.722 --> 00:13:33.312
I was a little bit, naive or inexperienced in the sense of how I wanted to communicate it across the, players.
00:13:34.932 --> 00:13:40.342
so when the coronavirus, when the pandemic came in, that was my last contract under Port vale.
00:13:41.893 --> 00:13:47.923
and I had a real, crossroads in my life in a sense of what I wanted to do.
00:13:48.793 --> 00:13:54.852
I had 2 years away from football completely because I think psychologically I was tapped out with the game.
00:13:55.423 --> 00:14:02.232
One and two year deals here and there, move into to every corner of the country missing out on key events.
00:14:02.562 --> 00:14:05.202
It was, a great, it was a, like an unbelievable sacrifice.
00:14:05.202 --> 00:14:12.043
It's, again, it's the same old story that will be echoed by many, but people only see the good sides of football.
00:14:12.043 --> 00:14:12.102
Yeah.
00:14:12.373 --> 00:14:22.513
and I think, again, reiterating that the season as a whole, or seasons as a whole are really tolling on you physically and mentally.
00:14:23.173 --> 00:14:43.572
so I had 2 years outta the game and, I'll say this open and honestly I was a delivery driver at Amazon, because I had, no, the skills, I had unbelievable aspects to give from football in sense, but from qualifications, all my friends were electricians, plumbers, skilled tradesmen, and what could I offer?
00:14:43.783 --> 00:14:48.202
Luckily in that moment, the pandemic was, the going rate was everyone was ordering online.
00:14:48.437 --> 00:14:48.498
Yeah.
00:14:48.503 --> 00:14:48.702
Yeah.
00:14:48.732 --> 00:14:53.592
So the going rate, so actually it was my brother that got me in the back door with regards to Amazon.
00:14:54.582 --> 00:14:55.572
the money was okay.
00:14:56.082 --> 00:15:00.102
It helped, it was important because I had to pay a bills, and
00:15:00.643 --> 00:15:01.513
give you breathing space.
00:15:01.633 --> 00:15:01.783
Right.
00:15:01.812 --> 00:15:02.113
Yeah.
00:15:02.173 --> 00:15:03.763
I had 2 years of just being normal.
00:15:04.393 --> 00:15:16.212
And I say normal loosely in a sense of if I wanted to go out to see my friends on a Tuesday night, play a bit of pool, maybe have a beer or 2, get some food, see birthdays with my mum.
00:15:16.482 --> 00:15:16.663
Yeah.
00:15:16.668 --> 00:15:20.743
my dad, my mum was, shielding at the time in, in, in the pandemic.
00:15:20.743 --> 00:15:26.082
And again, there, there was just a lot of things that made me just wanna be normal again.
00:15:26.832 --> 00:15:38.548
And I, first came back into Coach and through, through Middlesborough, it was after the 2 year period, there was a job on Indeed regarding just a part-time role, 9 to 16's.
00:15:39.373 --> 00:15:42.852
I just fired my CV out and then, ah, we'll give this a go.
00:15:43.363 --> 00:15:47.263
They've been in touch, I delivered 2 sessions and they were like, yeah, we want to take you on board.
00:15:47.263 --> 00:15:55.062
And it turned from part-time to pretty much full-time, working with the 9 to 16's, really good club, really good people.
00:15:55.783 --> 00:15:59.773
loved it was there for 4 to 6 months.
00:16:00.163 --> 00:16:08.592
And then I was on a CPD event actually when England come and they deliver, the kind of processes to all the different regions.
00:16:08.893 --> 00:16:09.192
Yeah.
00:16:09.942 --> 00:16:17.503
and it was hosted at Sunderland, so I went back to the club and I seen a lot of old faces that I hadn't seen for 10, 12 years.
00:16:17.503 --> 00:16:24.013
That was like the cleaning staff, the kitchen staff Pruds was there and they were just like, we thought you were still playing.
00:16:25.182 --> 00:16:25.962
Where have you been?
00:16:25.962 --> 00:16:29.653
And I was just like, no, I'm coaching and they were like, you're joking.
00:16:29.653 --> 00:16:33.432
And then one thing turned into another and I ended up being in there full time.
00:16:33.493 --> 00:16:39.072
So I'm really privileged to be sitting here now And in the position I am 4 years on.
00:16:41.113 --> 00:16:42.972
but yeah, I wouldn't, change it for the world.
00:16:42.972 --> 00:16:52.753
Now it's, I look back at it and it's all my experiences have shaped me to who I am and, naturally, football is where my heart is and where my skill set is.
00:16:52.753 --> 00:16:54.342
So long me that continue.
00:16:54.793 --> 00:16:55.482
That's amazing.
00:16:55.482 --> 00:16:57.673
And I can only imagine that means a lot to you personally.
00:16:58.302 --> 00:17:07.813
being a sunderland boy and growing up through the academy To return home, to give things another, to give the next generation their chance and, spend some time with them.
00:17:09.635 --> 00:17:10.903
It's, a fantastic story.
00:17:12.635 --> 00:17:16.272
obviously you've worked quite closely with the academy keepers, but you are now.
00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:26.878
Taking the next step in your own career, and getting to work along Neil, who from the, conversations I have with people is like, Neil's one of the best goalkeeper coaches in the world.
00:17:27.148 --> 00:17:27.628
Bar none.
00:17:27.929 --> 00:17:28.048
Yeah.
00:17:28.648 --> 00:17:31.048
so what's, the, plan?
00:17:31.378 --> 00:17:32.098
Is there, a plan?
00:17:32.098 --> 00:17:33.689
Is it kind of redundancy planning?
00:17:33.689 --> 00:17:37.108
What's the, I know, I dunno how much you can share or how much you can't work
00:17:37.108 --> 00:17:38.683
with, forgotten with regard to Neil or
00:17:39.209 --> 00:17:41.338
with, you working with Neil, with your step up and,
00:17:42.148 --> 00:17:51.838
I think firstly when the promotion happened a year ago, there was a lot of question with regards to what the coaching remit would look like.
00:17:52.409 --> 00:18:03.929
Alessandro, who by the way, is a, is an excellent young, modern goalkeeping coach who coached in so much detail and, helped me so much in the years prior.
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.469
he almost had me indirectly working with him a lot whenever he could.
00:18:07.469 --> 00:18:10.378
He appreciated that my commitment still lay with the academy.
00:18:11.098 --> 00:18:24.088
but whenever he could get me over there, he would, working with the senior boys at the time, I think it was Pat, Nathan, Bishop, Alex Bass, Jake Carney, it was really, good for me to get that exposure early.
00:18:25.078 --> 00:18:36.628
and I think, like you say, I was sitting in quite a niche space in a sense of me being quite younger for a coach, being a player and also having a bit of coaching detail as well.
00:18:37.919 --> 00:18:44.759
so it, allowed me to be really relatable with the boys and settle in with the seniors quite easily.
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:44.818
Yeah.
00:18:45.449 --> 00:18:46.949
maybe easier than most.
00:18:48.509 --> 00:19:09.375
so like I say, when, Neil was, had the chance to come in last year, for me it was, a reason that made me want to stay, not that I was in, in any rush to, to leave, but that it was just like, wow to work with this guy and even pull some little nuggets of, where he is been, what he's seen, who he's worked with.
00:19:10.246 --> 00:19:15.915
his time at Villa and obviously Emi Martinez is speaking as, as highly of him as, what he is.
00:19:15.915 --> 00:19:19.066
And the podcast he's been on from previous.
00:19:20.056 --> 00:19:46.066
I think the key thing he took, or I took from it was on the first day he sat me down and he just wrote environment and everyone thought it was gonna be, or I thought anyway, it was gonna be some kind of, magic word that, or way of coaching that it, that made him, but it wasn't, it was the environment and it was how we were with the players, our relationships with the players.
00:19:46.215 --> 00:19:48.195
And he said, I want that right from the get go.
00:19:48.605 --> 00:19:54.586
So he selfishly utilised me a lot more, in this season.
00:19:55.635 --> 00:20:03.576
and like you say, as the department is growing, it's, it is gonna be like, say looking really positive going in the next year and into europe.
00:20:04.012 --> 00:20:16.553
As I can only imagine, cause as a, from an outside perspective, you, we hear a lot of, how good the academy is and how we value bringing the young players through.
00:20:16.553 --> 00:20:21.833
And we've always done well, we've always, developed and brought on.
00:20:21.833 --> 00:20:26.843
But I guess the sticking point for some is we've always ended up being the club that had to cash in on them.
00:20:26.843 --> 00:20:30.502
'cause we were never quite big enough to hold on to the level of some of the players.
00:20:31.492 --> 00:20:34.853
Jordan Pickford being a great example, we would've loved to have held onto him.
00:20:36.682 --> 00:20:37.192
but I guess.
00:20:37.472 --> 00:20:41.512
As we've now moved into being a Premier League club again and moving forward into Europe.
00:20:41.573 --> 00:20:49.883
But it makes sense that the coaching staff also get those opportunities not just to be working with the academy, but to be working with the first team and bring the 2 together.
00:20:49.913 --> 00:20:54.262
'cause that gap now between academy and first team must be monumental.
00:20:54.742 --> 00:20:55.042
Yeah.
00:20:55.133 --> 00:20:56.303
Bigger than it's ever been before.
00:20:56.782 --> 00:21:05.692
And I think that was the biggest thing of kind of what we went after this year with, especially the PDP goalkeepers because we were looking at that gap of what it was.
00:21:05.952 --> 00:21:09.232
I, would say somewhat linear, but not really.
00:21:09.232 --> 00:21:19.823
But when we were in the championship, it was more linear when we were in League one because the opportunity of the players there were a lot higher, because of the resource had or, didn't have.
00:21:20.663 --> 00:21:25.673
and say when we went into the premier, that gap had just gone from 21's to first teams boom.
00:21:26.813 --> 00:21:26.962
Yeah.
00:21:27.022 --> 00:21:34.042
And I was sitting there almost like in the space in between the 2 going, what can we do?
00:21:34.583 --> 00:21:35.393
What can we affect?
00:21:36.502 --> 00:21:37.613
What can we change?
00:21:37.883 --> 00:21:41.423
and I think the biggest thing we utilised this year was the loan system.
00:21:42.682 --> 00:21:50.573
and how we manage the loans of some of the senior players in the 21's to go and get a CV in the game.
00:21:50.992 --> 00:21:51.143
Yeah.
00:21:51.143 --> 00:21:55.222
Go and get a real exposure of what it looks like in, in the non league.
00:21:57.143 --> 00:22:02.242
and more importantly, give the younger players in the academy an opportunity.
00:22:03.863 --> 00:22:08.163
and like you say, we've got players like Joe Cowen who played in the PL Cup final.
00:22:08.303 --> 00:22:08.542
Yeah.
00:22:08.663 --> 00:22:10.653
It's 16 years old in the under 21's.
00:22:11.482 --> 00:22:11.752
Yeah.
00:22:11.813 --> 00:22:13.252
Which is remarkable,
00:22:13.252 --> 00:22:13.762
phenomenal.
00:22:13.792 --> 00:22:17.182
And it's the same as Matty, when Matty had that opportunity as well.
00:22:17.182 --> 00:22:28.403
But we're big advocates now on, we have to stretch, but we also have to be very, careful of what that stretch looks like, because when you stretch things they can snap.
00:22:28.702 --> 00:22:28.913
Yeah.
00:22:29.002 --> 00:22:29.782
They can break.
00:22:30.113 --> 00:22:49.762
So we have to make sure that, I would say, if you look at it from a 4 corner perspective, technical, tactical, physical, psychological, the 2 key aspects that we look for in the goalkeeper is are they physically capable to handle the demands of being stretched in a senior environment or into a phase above them, like age group?
00:22:50.242 --> 00:22:53.423
and are they psychologically capable to do it?
00:22:53.843 --> 00:22:55.042
Have they got good temperament?
00:22:55.673 --> 00:23:01.762
That was probably one of the questions I'm quite curious about is how much contact do you have with the goalkeepers that are out on loan?
00:23:02.603 --> 00:23:12.388
is it, do you spend a lot of time with their current parent clubs, working with them on the development plans or is it your theirs now and we'll see you in a bit.
00:23:12.388 --> 00:23:18.749
I think I subconsciously took on the, goal keeping loans manager role within the 21's especially.
00:23:18.959 --> 00:23:22.229
We had, Dan Cameron out on loan to hebburn town.
00:23:22.229 --> 00:23:36.749
We had Isaac Allen out on loan to hebburn Town because of Dan's performances for Hebburn It, turned into where a step one National League loan into Boston, which was great because it was shown to me that his cv was becoming stronger.
00:23:36.749 --> 00:23:42.614
He was getting noticed and that secondary loan would never have come about if the hebburn aspect hadn't come.
00:23:43.108 --> 00:23:47.278
Thankfully geographically hebburn's 20 minutes away.
00:23:47.459 --> 00:23:52.558
So we could control what his training provision looked like Monday to Friday.
00:23:52.558 --> 00:23:54.298
hebburn were very accommodating with it.
00:23:54.298 --> 00:23:58.618
They were on board, and they just allowed him to play on the match day.
00:23:59.009 --> 00:24:09.538
We'd still give him his post match analysis, their analyst would send us through the clips that we could go through and the fine deal and give them the same service as what it would be like playing in the 21's.
00:24:09.838 --> 00:24:09.959
Yeah.
00:24:11.909 --> 00:24:16.858
and again, I think it just helped with the whole environment of the goal keeping department.
00:24:17.068 --> 00:24:24.659
We had 6 in the PDP and managing them all when there's only 1 in 18's game on a Saturday and 1 in the 21's game on a Monday.
00:24:24.778 --> 00:24:26.519
That's 4 others that aren't getting something.
00:24:26.818 --> 00:24:26.999
Yeah.
00:24:27.479 --> 00:24:36.058
like you say from a from an outcome perspective to have, boys out on alone and boys getting a stretch in around it was brilliant.
00:24:36.538 --> 00:24:37.048
Amazing.
00:24:38.159 --> 00:24:44.586
And then coming back to where we are now, I've been bringing my son to games for what, 2 and a half years.
00:24:44.586 --> 00:24:49.686
And we've seen you out on the pitch warm and warming the keepers up almost that entire time, or if not all of it.
00:24:51.846 --> 00:24:59.916
what's that experience like and Prematch on Match day with, we're blessed in the Northeast and I say that with baited Breath, right?
00:24:59.916 --> 00:24:59.977
Yeah.
00:24:59.977 --> 00:25:03.846
Like we're very blessed to have 3 big teams with huge support.
00:25:03.846 --> 00:25:03.906
Yeah.
00:25:04.807 --> 00:25:10.416
what's it like being out there with 48,000 people setting expectations, 3000 away
00:25:10.416 --> 00:25:12.336
fans being quite loud and vocal.
00:25:13.057 --> 00:25:13.987
You carry it hard.
00:25:14.047 --> 00:25:14.797
You carry it hard.
00:25:14.797 --> 00:25:21.217
And I think, I dread to think what someone like Robin carries when he's playing.
00:25:21.217 --> 00:25:25.267
He's in the moment and I'm on the sidelines and my work's done.
00:25:25.326 --> 00:25:25.537
Yeah.
00:25:25.747 --> 00:25:33.547
So when an outcome happens, positive or negative, we're sometimes sitting there going, what would I have done differently or what could I have done more?
00:25:33.547 --> 00:25:34.777
How would I have structured the week?
00:25:34.777 --> 00:25:37.086
Or how would myself and Cuts(Neil Cutler) have structured the week?
00:25:37.686 --> 00:25:40.057
Should we have given X or Y or done whatever.
00:25:40.057 --> 00:25:41.676
But it's hindsight, isn't it?
00:25:42.217 --> 00:25:44.646
and I think that's the beauty of football.
00:25:44.767 --> 00:25:55.372
But going back to the magnitude of the club, and I'll give, Sunday as prime example, we left on the coach from the academy from pre-match.
00:25:55.537 --> 00:25:58.686
And we, all of our prep was done, everything was ready.
00:25:58.717 --> 00:26:00.126
We were just ready to go to the game.
00:26:00.126 --> 00:26:11.497
And when we seen the masses that had, that had congregated around the ground and the flares, and it took us 30 minutes to get into the ground because it was, that much.
00:26:12.096 --> 00:26:20.646
But I knew straight away when we went down into the dressing rooms and sat, I knew we were gonna win because of that.
00:26:20.737 --> 00:26:34.477
And I think from myself, and there'll be a lot of fans that are watching this, it's a big thank you from not only myself, but the rest of the coaching staff and the players that they were the 12th man in that and they've been the 12th man all year.
00:26:34.477 --> 00:26:43.027
They've been brilliant and like you say, it's so rewarding to see from someone who has a real personal affiliation with a football club.
00:26:43.326 --> 00:26:43.596
Yeah.
00:26:44.166 --> 00:26:45.511
as well as a professional one.
00:26:45.811 --> 00:26:57.602
if I might speak on behalf of the rest of the Sunderland and fans, it's genuinely old pleasure to be the 12th man on that pitch because I think we do appreciate a lot of the time, a lot of the fans appreciate the hard work that goes into that preparation.
00:26:57.602 --> 00:27:12.471
You can see it in the moments before the match, the how tuned in everybody is and how focused everyone is, but I when you are in those final moments before, is there anything that you guys are particularly looking for as coaching team?
00:27:12.681 --> 00:27:17.721
is it just a warmup or is there anything else in there that you guys take away from that?
00:27:17.961 --> 00:27:21.800
I think firstly the warm ups are very precious to the goalkeeper, so they're very different.
00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:25.431
obviously we've had, Robin has played the lions share of the games.
00:27:25.431 --> 00:27:27.560
We've had a period where Melker has stepped in.
00:27:28.191 --> 00:27:33.961
And again, I think he got a little bit of a baptism of fire in a sense of playing in the Derby He certain did.
00:27:33.961 --> 00:27:36.105
and let alone picking his Premier League debut.
00:27:36.969 --> 00:27:40.929
I think the key thing is don't go in too hard with them.
00:27:40.989 --> 00:27:42.489
Don't give them too much.
00:27:42.638 --> 00:27:44.469
Your details done in the week, Monday, Friday.
00:27:44.469 --> 00:27:44.558
Yeah.
00:27:44.648 --> 00:27:45.669
They're intelligent guys.
00:27:45.699 --> 00:27:47.259
They know what they need and what they don't need.
00:27:47.618 --> 00:27:50.499
For me, the warmup is more of a psychological rehearsal.
00:27:50.858 --> 00:27:50.979
Yeah.
00:27:50.979 --> 00:27:52.598
For them to emulate what they need.
00:27:52.659 --> 00:27:56.348
some key, some goalies I've known and I've worked with to be overcooked.
00:27:56.348 --> 00:27:59.528
They're like a lot of reps and a lot of up downs so they feel ready.
00:27:59.648 --> 00:28:00.669
Others like less.
00:28:02.318 --> 00:28:08.888
with Robin, he's a little bit in between, but I think one thing is, his temperament is, he knows exactly he's not phased.
00:28:08.979 --> 00:28:10.148
He's really not phased.
00:28:10.148 --> 00:28:19.778
And for a boy who's just gone 23, to be able to handle that in an environment of 48,000 Mackems is remarkable.
00:28:20.739 --> 00:28:30.699
He doesn't, it's funny'cause I often think just, even just looking at him, he doesn't look 23, he doesn't look 22 as we first met him He looks years and years older.
00:28:32.108 --> 00:28:34.659
not because he's got an old face, he just carries.
00:28:34.659 --> 00:28:35.828
It's the way he carries himself.
00:28:35.828 --> 00:28:36.489
I think it's, you are right.
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:42.368
Like it's, that charisma that he's just, seems like he's born for that next level.
00:28:43.358 --> 00:28:45.489
and we're very privileged to have him around.
00:28:45.939 --> 00:28:50.409
to be able to see him firsthand before he, I have no doubt he will move on to do whatever he needs to do.
00:28:50.409 --> 00:28:52.689
I'd like to think we managed to keep him, but
00:28:52.743 --> 00:28:53.263
fingers crossed.
00:28:54.723 --> 00:28:57.219
but we've got our work cut out for us if that's what we're gonna do.
00:28:57.489 --> 00:29:03.878
And, that kind of comes into, we talked about Sunday qualifying for the Europa League and i guess.
00:29:05.611 --> 00:29:10.582
whilst that still fresh in, it's, less than 48 hours since we, since that moment.
00:29:11.031 --> 00:29:12.771
Are you guys now thinking hard?
00:29:12.771 --> 00:29:13.582
about next season?
00:29:13.582 --> 00:29:16.102
How does that impact on your coaching?
00:29:16.102 --> 00:29:20.001
Because obviously you're playing 2 games a week or for some parts of the year now.
00:29:20.872 --> 00:29:21.741
do you train harder?
00:29:21.741 --> 00:29:22.971
Do you train less hard?
00:29:23.211 --> 00:29:23.541
What's,
00:29:23.842 --> 00:29:37.582
I think that's probably, if I don't delve too much into the physical aspect of it, because the guys in the performance department from especially first team level have controlled that and can be done a, really good job on that.
00:29:38.182 --> 00:30:01.432
but I think just to give you a small snippet of what it is, I think since the promotion, the game, the training week has been based more around your tactical aspects of what the opposition are and from a recovery perspective, like the recovery aspect of the game is so important because ultimately we can have you fresh for a training week, but your match day is where it all matters.
00:30:01.761 --> 00:30:02.031
Yeah.
00:30:02.332 --> 00:30:08.031
You can't see a manager going, oh, we trained really well Monday to Friday, but we lost people don't care.
00:30:08.517 --> 00:30:08.807
Yeah.
00:30:09.106 --> 00:30:09.321
Yeah.
00:30:09.321 --> 00:30:10.011
It's irrelevant.
00:30:10.971 --> 00:30:22.582
so I think the managing of the week is, has been a real, change in a sense of what the championship offered in comparison to the premier.
00:30:22.821 --> 00:30:38.632
And also for me personally working within the academy from a developmental sense or developmental hat going into a performance environment where you match day is your bread and butter, is your key focus, but it, makes the week feel a lot more purposeful.
00:30:38.932 --> 00:30:39.112
Yeah.
00:30:39.741 --> 00:30:45.261
and then when the outcome comes and hopefully a positive one, it also makes it a lot more rewarding as well.
00:30:45.561 --> 00:30:51.423
you mentioned working with Neil earlier on and, his conversation about environment and being as one team.
00:30:52.712 --> 00:30:55.353
how does that get implemented in the everyday?
00:30:55.833 --> 00:31:02.432
What does that, actually look like, especially now considering, we're talking about elite level football now, where we're Europe, Premier League.
00:31:03.242 --> 00:31:04.742
What does that look like on a daily?
00:31:05.492 --> 00:31:17.313
So you said something really interesting and I think again, the guys watching and yourself will be, under no illusions that the way the game is going, it's very, tactical.
00:31:17.313 --> 00:31:18.903
It's very in depth.
00:31:18.962 --> 00:31:31.232
There's so much information that's thrown around, whether it's from set players, whether it's physical data and outputs in your GPS, whether it's formations, whether it's, whatever, the analysis side of things.
00:31:31.242 --> 00:31:36.182
And There's so much thrown on the player psychologically that it can just be information overload.
00:31:36.573 --> 00:31:43.323
And I think sometimes the aspect of the human needs to come into play because ultimately the players aren't robots.
00:31:43.442 --> 00:31:43.532
Yeah.
00:31:43.532 --> 00:31:53.222
And for us to have that connection and the goal keeping coach and the role, of us dealing with such small numbers and having that relationship.
00:31:53.222 --> 00:31:56.792
So we have days where we go heavy on social.
00:31:57.932 --> 00:32:11.103
and again, I think it's quite, even in the modern day, like a lot of European influx and they look and they see the the social aspect and it can sometimes be going, oh, what are they doing there?
00:32:11.113 --> 00:32:13.153
they're playing head tennis or they're playing two touch.
00:32:13.452 --> 00:32:13.682
Yeah.
00:32:14.393 --> 00:32:19.383
Cuts has got a really good game where we play two touch, but we play it in a small grid.
00:32:20.553 --> 00:32:29.103
and basically there's balls everywhere and if you hit balls, you lose lives and X, y, z Then there's, a, again, if you, don't mind me sharing this, there's money on it.
00:32:29.492 --> 00:32:29.613
Yeah.
00:32:30.482 --> 00:32:40.117
and again, I'll say this quite lightly, some the more, some of the money that, that Robin than some of the senior boys in comparison to us is a lot different.
00:32:40.593 --> 00:32:45.057
So when we're playing for 50 quid, I am, I definitely don't want to lose.
00:32:46.413 --> 00:32:53.492
it can get quite intense, but I think it's really good, that we have that,'cause it keeps it competitive.
00:32:53.762 --> 00:32:56.432
It keeps you psychologically engaged in the session.
00:32:56.643 --> 00:33:18.353
And I think when we implement that at the start of training for 10, 15, 20 minutes, when they then go into the session up here, they're firing and they're already ready to go because again, you don't mind me saying there's been many times, whether you're a young kid or you're a senior goalkeeper, you'll roll out bed one day and you'll be going.
00:33:19.423 --> 00:33:19.432
i
00:33:19.432 --> 00:33:20.971
don't fancy it Today or, yeah.
00:33:21.631 --> 00:33:31.171
so like having that aspect at the start is so important and Neil's design and his processes in the sense of what the session looks like.
00:33:31.201 --> 00:33:39.990
He's big on the reactiveness of not only the feet and how we move and the mechanics, but also the mind stimulating the mind, the hand-eye coordination.
00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:51.840
So we do a lot of table tennis leading into the training and it, it's a tiny ball and it's intense and it's quick, but when you come out, you take it around the grass, the guys are there upstairs.
00:33:51.840 --> 00:33:56.701
So it's really, creative and meticulous and in what he does.
00:33:57.961 --> 00:34:02.580
but the, say that the cohort we're working with have been really receptive to that.
00:34:03.721 --> 00:34:07.740
it's interesting because that's almost mirrors the way you teach academy players, right?
00:34:08.101 --> 00:34:09.690
make it fun, make a game of it, Yeah.
00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.550
Make, get them involved together.
00:34:12.570 --> 00:34:35.884
so it's interesting to hear that even at that elite level, there's a certain part of the keepers that still need that, fun, the dopamine, the adrenaline, the competition, going back to match day, but like, when the young keepers are watching, from the terraces, they're watching their idols warming up, down on the pitch, what's some of the things that they can take away from themselves, with preparation for their own match deal or just in general?
00:34:36.184 --> 00:34:45.804
I'd say the biggest thing, and I'd say this from a scouting perspective, when I've gone to watch goalkeepers in the past, I think you get a lot from them when they're not in the working set.
00:34:46.855 --> 00:34:53.155
So in a sense of if they're doing a crossing practise, don't watch the final action of how they're claim the cross watch.
00:34:53.155 --> 00:34:54.324
When they're going to get the balls.
00:34:54.744 --> 00:34:56.184
What, when they're standing by the goal.
00:34:56.485 --> 00:34:56.664
Yeah.
00:34:57.175 --> 00:34:57.985
How are they standing?
00:34:58.045 --> 00:35:10.344
What's their body language portraying to the rest of the, not only to their peers, but to the rest of the stadium, to they look calm, Do they look, assured, do they look in control or is it the opposite of that?
00:35:10.885 --> 00:35:12.445
And I think you get a lot from that.
00:35:13.045 --> 00:35:15.469
So for me, that would probably be the one thing you look at.
00:35:15.802 --> 00:35:34.693
I guess it's one of those things that like, must be really hard to see that at a young age because they're all full of beans and on, and when they're not in the moment, it can be really boring for them at that age and then all of a sudden, I can imagine they get to a certain age and it just clicks for them, which is when a lot of them get picked up.
00:35:34.693 --> 00:35:44.742
But it's interesting that and again, it's not something that they can really be coached on, but something they can be conscious of themselves so that when they get to that age, they can do that.
00:35:45.043 --> 00:35:46.572
I think it's, sorry to interrupt on that.
00:35:46.572 --> 00:35:54.492
I think it's important that you go through a process of being conscious and again, touching on kind of Neil and what we deliver to the group.
00:35:54.492 --> 00:36:00.402
It's whether it's the save choice and the outcome or whether it's a psychological coping skill.
00:36:00.583 --> 00:36:18.282
You have to be self-aware and conscious of, what you're doing in the moment, but then take it to a subconscious outcome because naturally in game you'll revert back to your subconscious because the game is so quick and reactive, so important to dip in and out of those two states.
00:36:18.313 --> 00:36:29.503
But I think, like you say, when you become more senior in yourself and more self-aware of what you are as not only a goalkeeper, but as a person, really, important to dig between the two sticks
00:36:29.802 --> 00:36:31.663
And it's such an influential position as well.
00:36:33.492 --> 00:36:51.193
you don't quite see as many keepers who are captains of their team anymore as you used to back in the 90's and the, early 2000's but it's still such a massively influential position and I see a lot of young keepers, 3 or 4 goals passed and the chins go down and I can only imagine the impact that has on the rest of the team.
00:36:51.193 --> 00:37:00.103
So to a certain extent, regardless how you feel inside, it's about maintaining that calm exterior that helps give your team the confidence.
00:37:00.402 --> 00:37:00.583
Yeah.
00:37:00.882 --> 00:37:08.927
you think that the young keepers today understand enough about what an outfield coach would want from them?
00:37:09.086 --> 00:37:23.246
How does a young goalkeeper cross that barrier between, I'm just a shots stopper for quite a lot of the young period of time to be part of that outfield team and be effective and be noticed.
00:37:23.596 --> 00:37:40.447
I think firstly just on that aspect is if you were to break down goalkeeping from, say defending the goal, defending the area space and im possession, if I was to say, who's the best at defending the goal, you'd say x.
00:37:41.317 --> 00:37:46.925
If you were to say defending the space scenario, you'd say Y if you were to say in possession, you'd say another.
00:37:47.614 --> 00:37:52.054
So I think the key message in that is there is no one size fits all approach.
00:37:52.684 --> 00:37:53.945
Just like an outfielder.
00:37:53.945 --> 00:38:00.664
They, the goalkeeper will possess a super strength and they'll have areas of the game that they're not so comfortable with.
00:38:01.144 --> 00:38:12.635
and I think from a grassroots level, it's really important that the managers understand what their goalkeeper is, what their strengths are and can you more importantly utilise that on a match day?
00:38:13.114 --> 00:38:24.994
Because like you say, we don't have the luxury of when, you're working at senior level and the club has a philosophy or a style of play and they go and recruit a goalkeeper based on what that philosophy is.
00:38:25.385 --> 00:38:29.824
I think when you're at grassroots, level, the education of the role is so important.
00:38:30.905 --> 00:38:43.445
and like you say, my kinda advice to any goalkeeper at that level is to just go and explore as many different avenues as possible.
00:38:43.445 --> 00:38:53.704
So go and get the ball from your centre half in the wackiest position, go and be brave and come and effect that cutback cross or that aerial duel or go out and block spread.
00:38:54.184 --> 00:38:56.436
because you'll find so much more out about yourself.
00:38:56.737 --> 00:38:58.567
Experiment while you're in the development age.
00:38:59.286 --> 00:39:00.126
you're there to have fun.
00:39:00.277 --> 00:39:00.577
Yeah.
00:39:00.637 --> 00:39:12.847
And I think, there's, I think that's something that I, personally try and influence with my son is, if you're out there having fun, then you'll naturally experiment with things, but try not to feel it.
00:39:13.132 --> 00:39:15.382
There's a lot of pressure in it, isn't It It's, a lot.
00:39:15.411 --> 00:39:15.996
It's hard.
00:39:16.213 --> 00:39:23.434
what would you say is, in your opinion, the biggest misconception young keepers have about playing out from the back?
00:39:23.858 --> 00:39:24.989
It always has to be short.
00:39:25.467 --> 00:39:36.286
the actions in game with the ball at feet is undeniable in a sense of the responsibility of it and the amount of contacts with the ball at the feet, you're gonna have.
00:39:36.856 --> 00:39:44.626
So the goalkeeper, whether they like it or not, has to be efficient and effective with the ball, at the feet, left and right foot.
00:39:45.496 --> 00:39:53.297
so we, go, we call first line passing, with your back line, second line in your midfield, third line into your top line.
00:39:54.016 --> 00:39:58.456
You have to have an array of clubs in your locker to be able to execute.
00:39:58.936 --> 00:40:06.972
And I think it's like anything, when you say to the, to the goalkeeper, right gonna play from the back today, they think, oh, I need to pass it.
00:40:06.976 --> 00:40:07.697
I send it back.
00:40:08.476 --> 00:40:08.597
Yeah.
00:40:08.597 --> 00:40:10.637
Really there's so much more to that.
00:40:10.936 --> 00:40:11.117
Yeah.
00:40:12.706 --> 00:40:24.646
and I think, like you say, they,the amount of times that you see it, in academies, you see it in any kind of youth phases where they go, the coach showed me a play, play from back, play short.
00:40:24.646 --> 00:40:27.197
And it's such a close-minded way of thinking.
00:40:28.516 --> 00:40:39.706
I think the big, the key message in it is almost to watch the first team since the boss came in and he's big on a word, that he uses a lot in the build and he, says be adaptable.
00:40:39.733 --> 00:40:43.364
And it, it's such a refreshing way of putting it.
00:40:43.483 --> 00:40:43.634
Yeah.
00:40:43.934 --> 00:40:51.764
Because with, again, in the top level with the analysis of the opposition, what you have, you play in a certain way.
00:40:51.824 --> 00:40:56.833
I'm telling you now, the next Saturday you play a team will be set up to combat the way you play.
00:40:57.373 --> 00:40:58.664
So you have to be adaptable.
00:40:58.873 --> 00:40:58.963
Yeah.
00:40:58.963 --> 00:41:01.034
And the same in the concept in the grassroots.
00:41:01.063 --> 00:41:07.034
If you wanna go short only do it once, twice, three times, then the next one might go, your fullback might go into your nine.
00:41:07.393 --> 00:41:07.574
Yeah.
00:41:07.634 --> 00:41:08.713
Might go over the top.
00:41:09.583 --> 00:41:09.733
Yeah.
00:41:09.824 --> 00:41:13.094
And then it changes the dynamic, and then you can go back to playing short.
00:41:13.153 --> 00:41:14.864
So it's a bit of cat and mouse almost.
00:41:15.193 --> 00:41:17.264
and I think that's where your intelligence comes in.
00:41:17.264 --> 00:41:17.474
Yeah.
00:41:17.713 --> 00:41:41.474
And you've got a, I think common sense has to come in a little bit, but I think in the game now, coaches are what i'd class as super coaches in a mentality of the detail and the education that players are getting now at a young age, technically and tactically through their analysis is it's never any better than it's ever been.
00:41:41.623 --> 00:41:45.733
And it's brilliant because the game understanding is top.
00:41:46.304 --> 00:41:51.643
But what you're actually doing is you're taking away the emphasis of them making the decision in the moment, in the pressure.
00:41:52.543 --> 00:41:58.393
Which brings me back to my earlier point of just keep exploring, just keep failing and you'll learn.
00:41:58.514 --> 00:42:12.764
And the more situations you put yourself in time, after time, after time, after time, you're gonna build those neurological patterns of, oh, this happened the last time I did it, so why don't I change it or change this or change the way I pass it into.
00:42:13.273 --> 00:42:13.574
Okay.
00:42:13.574 --> 00:42:15.164
And that's where your learning comes.
00:42:16.123 --> 00:42:26.804
So really, like big message to just stay adaptable in who you are and, but work on the technical aspects of what your choice of club is gonna be.
00:42:27.764 --> 00:42:31.423
And I mean club by as in what your, pass is gonna be.
00:42:31.724 --> 00:42:31.844
Yeah.
00:42:32.233 --> 00:42:41.072
obviously, I gave you some questions before we came here, but there is something else that's occurred to me whilst we've been sitting here talking, and I'm interested to hear your opinion on it I'm a young goalkeeper.
00:42:41.072 --> 00:42:42.181
I wanna be picked up by academy.
00:42:42.181 --> 00:42:43.411
I wanna play professional.
00:42:43.711 --> 00:42:52.141
Do they need to play Premier League first, first division grassroots to be able to be picked up by scouts at that age?
00:42:52.891 --> 00:42:54.871
Or do, are there other options for them?
00:42:55.701 --> 00:43:09.447
I think the biggest thing from a scouting perspective is, especially at those young ages, when we look at it, the key message for me is do they have a unique, a unique trait, that makes'them stand out from the rest?
00:43:09.847 --> 00:43:12.907
Now, you'll probably ask me, what is that?
00:43:13.536 --> 00:43:13.686
It could be anything.
00:43:14.032 --> 00:43:20.436
It Could be this boy stands ridiculously high in the goal and in the build and he just wants to get the ball all the time.
00:43:20.436 --> 00:43:30.907
And he's like an extra outfield player and he's, bump, bump,bump could be that, or he could just be an absolute demon in the goal and just makes, saves constantly just like getting hit and block and brave as a lion.
00:43:31.661 --> 00:43:40.836
Or he could just be, have a personality, a pitch personality that we talk about where his shoulders are back, his voice is commanding his back line.
00:43:40.836 --> 00:43:54.300
He's got that aura about him that's like rubbing off onto the rest of the team and actually his in game actions will be somewhat lower because he's actually diffusing situations without them becoming natural outcomes with regarding to the goalkeeper.
00:43:55.717 --> 00:44:00.427
so I think the key thing we look at is do they have a clear super strength?
00:44:00.907 --> 00:44:09.036
Because ultimately you can be good across the board, but what's gonna get you noticed is having a real super strength and polishing that super strength.
00:44:09.697 --> 00:44:10.867
But it could be absolutely anything.
00:44:11.250 --> 00:44:19.728
I guess in answer to that, then it doesn't matter whether they're playing division one, whether they're playing division three, division five, probably more likely to be spotted at the high level games, but
00:44:19.759 --> 00:44:20.028
yeah.
00:44:20.059 --> 00:44:20.389
Yeah.
00:44:20.389 --> 00:44:25.849
And I think especially going back to your, your experiences of what you're exposed to at a young age.
00:44:26.179 --> 00:44:37.518
I think if you're at, if you're at top team where you're at the best team and you're standing there and you're standing with your trophies at the end of your tournaments and you've got a chest full of, it's full of trophies, but actually I've probably only saved 3 shots all season.
00:44:38.778 --> 00:44:39.349
it's different.
00:44:39.648 --> 00:44:39.798
Yeah.
00:44:40.998 --> 00:44:51.496
put yourself in the firing line and I think it's hard now more than ever because of, I think social media and pressure to perform and people look at the outcome and the outcome is the trophy.
00:44:51.797 --> 00:44:51.916
Yeah.
00:44:52.217 --> 00:44:55.666
Or the outcome is the kit or the picture or whatever that is.
00:44:56.086 --> 00:45:01.726
And I think, like you say, that the, process behind it of just having good habits and doing things right.
00:45:02.896 --> 00:45:09.981
and really walking off the pitch going, you know what, I got better today is the key message development is so key at that age.
00:45:09.981 --> 00:45:18.199
Keep failing And failing until you learn because when the moment comes when you are warming up in front of 52,000, you can't fail.
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:18.918
Yeah.
00:45:19.384 --> 00:45:23.869
and I'll put that bluntly because there's detrimental factors to it.
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:24.378
Yeah.
00:45:24.588 --> 00:45:30.798
But because you failed so many times, leading to that point, you have a coping mechanism of how to execute.
00:45:31.099 --> 00:45:31.278
Yeah.
00:45:31.579 --> 00:45:35.869
So really powerful and an important takeaway I'd say with regard to that.
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:37.458
Amazing.
00:45:38.179 --> 00:45:40.248
I've got 2 questions that remain.
00:45:40.998 --> 00:45:44.179
one kind of following on from what we've got and then one, bringing it back to you.
00:45:44.626 --> 00:46:04.695
We spend a lot of time asking questions about the keepers and academies and careers and things, but for the parents that are out there and they've got a young goalkeeper, what do you often find that parents don't understand about the goalkeeper journey that, that you wish they did, that you wish that you could pass on to them or ingrained in them in some way?
00:46:05.804 --> 00:46:06.572
It's bumpy.
00:46:07.250 --> 00:46:08.119
it's not linear.
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:08.929
Yeah.
00:46:11.690 --> 00:46:13.369
I think that's life in general.
00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:17.110
I'm doing a lot of research now on the psychological aspect of the game.
00:46:17.170 --> 00:46:24.670
'cause I felt it was what I lacked as a player and maybe was the reason why I didn't reach the heights of maybe that was once expected of me.
00:46:26.949 --> 00:46:28.960
I could perform but not consistently.
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:33.849
And the burden I carried psychologically in that almost perfectionism mindset.
00:46:33.849 --> 00:46:42.519
And I think a lot of goalkeepers and parents, of goalkeeper coaches out there have a perfectionist mindset that everything has to be perfect.
00:46:42.909 --> 00:46:52.480
And I think that was the key message, even on the camps to do, you could have a 100 actions of whatever in, in the domains of the session.
00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:55.449
And your telling me you're gonna get a 100 clean.
00:46:56.619 --> 00:46:57.340
It's not possible.
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:57.849
Yeah.
00:46:58.342 --> 00:47:05.211
The key information and again, in context is to make sure, are you learning?
00:47:05.211 --> 00:47:08.331
Are you conscious of what you're good at and what you're not good at?
00:47:08.722 --> 00:47:12.831
And then more importantly, when you cross the white line, can you then execute that in the moment?
00:47:13.132 --> 00:47:15.052
Because you might only have one chance at it.
00:47:15.186 --> 00:47:15.476
Yeah.
00:47:15.777 --> 00:47:25.041
So you could get it right 99 times out of a 100, but if you step across the white line and you can't in that moment, then that becomes a problem, doesn't it?
00:47:25.672 --> 00:47:42.862
So I think understanding that scruffy and it might not look clean and there'll be a lot of maybe throwaway comments with regards to the outfielders, or whether that's a coach or other parents that don't understand the position.
00:47:44.061 --> 00:47:45.052
it can be lonely.
00:47:45.052 --> 00:47:50.692
the biggest thing I would say is allow your child, son or daughter to just speak.
00:47:50.692 --> 00:47:52.731
Allow them to speak before you speak.
00:47:53.001 --> 00:47:56.121
Ask them what they think and more importantly, what they were feeling.
00:47:56.677 --> 00:48:01.717
And then that allows reflection and that's when your learning can come in and you can guide them.
00:48:02.317 --> 00:48:04.927
So that would be my probably my key message with regard to that.
00:48:04.987 --> 00:48:18.306
we talked about shay given back at the beginning, and a little bit different really, because shay comparatively to some of the keepers that we've had mentioned in the interviews before is relatively modern in his keeping.
00:48:18.306 --> 00:48:22.567
But how do you think shay would've coped into today's game?
00:48:23.248 --> 00:48:25.338
Shay, I hope you're not watching this first and fore most.
00:48:27.398 --> 00:48:33.378
no, I think he's a, I think the first thing that's gonna spring everyone's mind is his physical profile.
00:48:33.887 --> 00:48:42.978
Because now you look at the goal keeping domains, and, I'll say this, we're standing in a tunnel on a, match day on Saturday, and, you're seeing the size of some of these guys, oh my God.
00:48:43.128 --> 00:48:45.858
Like I'm six foot 4 and they're absolute beasts.
00:48:46.088 --> 00:48:55.226
take Sanchez for example, at Chelsea physically to a point where it is like the peak of athleticism Yeah.
00:48:55.346 --> 00:48:56.516
Peak performance.
00:48:57.146 --> 00:49:01.106
But I think interestingly, there's so much more to the game than just that.
00:49:01.885 --> 00:49:02.096
Yeah.
00:49:02.096 --> 00:49:09.476
And I think what shay possessed was, his anticipation and his reflexes on his goal line.
00:49:09.775 --> 00:49:09.956
Yeah.
00:49:10.045 --> 00:49:27.925
And his probably his, technical outputs in game was so well executed that I feel now, not just in goal keeping, but in football in general, the game has gone so physical heavy that we've actually negated so much of the basics.
00:49:28.206 --> 00:49:34.735
Your save choices, your scoop, your volley, your collapse, save, your step and push.
00:49:35.815 --> 00:49:37.105
your crossing techniques.
00:49:37.704 --> 00:49:53.134
All these aspects now, even at senior level, I feel aren't mastered because cultures value either physical profiles or they value maybe the tactical aspects before you've even mastered your bread and butter, which is like your level 1 and level 2.
00:49:53.963 --> 00:50:04.793
So you take it in, you take it in kinda your strides in the sense of, when you're in the moment you're in the pressure, you'll always revert back to your technique.
00:50:05.393 --> 00:50:09.864
If your technique's poor, then, you're already off to negative start.
00:50:10.014 --> 00:50:24.563
If your technique's good, it will, it can get you out of, less than ideal situations because you'll always be dealt a raw hand in a sense of being caught outta a position or, I'm, in like a grey space, no man's land.
00:50:24.563 --> 00:50:28.193
but if your technique's good, yeah, it can get you out bother.
00:50:28.233 --> 00:50:33.262
So I think that's what Shay possessed, that kept him ahead of his time in that aspect.
00:50:33.802 --> 00:50:34.222
I love it.
00:50:34.791 --> 00:50:35.242
I love it.
00:50:35.251 --> 00:50:38.032
Jonny, it's been an absolute privilege to have you one.
00:50:38.036 --> 00:50:38.547
Thank you very much
00:50:39.197 --> 00:50:39.586
Thank you.
00:50:39.771 --> 00:50:40.552
Really appreciate it.
00:50:41.362 --> 00:50:44.692
And we'll see you for another episode shortly.
00:50:45.121 --> 00:50:45.402
Thanks.
00:50:46.141 --> 00:50:46.512
Bye.
00:00:09.762 --> 00:00:13.542
Hello and welcome back for another episode of Catching Up with EVOGK.
00:00:15.423 --> 00:00:20.103
I'm Paul Banks and today's guest is the amazing Jonny Maddison.
00:00:20.763 --> 00:00:48.154
So Jonny brings a mix of real playing experience along with modern coaching insight, and does that at Sunderland AFC, Jonny's a Sunderland Academy graduate himself, and went on to play as a professional goalkeeper across the EFL and the National League System clubs including Crawley Town, Leicester City, Yeovil, Darlington, Port Vale, and he was part of the Leicester City setup during their Premier League title era.
00:00:48.213 --> 00:00:50.014
So lots of tales, I'm sure.
00:00:50.914 --> 00:00:57.213
Made 22 appearances for Yeovil Town and then later returned closer to home with Darlington, before moving into coaching.
00:00:57.487 --> 00:01:05.647
now he's back at Sunderland, jonny works with the club's young goalkeepers, or has done till recently helping shape the next generation through the academy Pathway.
00:01:06.617 --> 00:01:21.837
His Role focuses on supporting goalkeeper development across the academy and developing a clear route for young players to progress their careers and until recently where Jonny has now moved into working more directly with Neil Cutler and the first team goalkeepers as well.
00:01:22.587 --> 00:01:33.897
we'll cover that as part of the questions, but going back to what I've just said, I think what makes Jonny's perspective, as far as this podcast concerned so valuable is that he's lived both sides of the journey.
00:01:33.986 --> 00:01:40.417
So he's been that professional level goalkeeper, he's done it at the highest levels, involved with clubs winning the Premier League.
00:01:40.826 --> 00:01:42.507
There's not much more that you can say to that.
00:01:44.216 --> 00:01:49.106
but then also moving into the coaching environment and working with all the age groups from the young goalkeepers.
00:01:49.106 --> 00:01:55.376
And if you're a regular on match days at Sunderland, and you'll see Jonny stepping out on the pitch and warming the first team keepers up on match days as well.
00:01:56.787 --> 00:01:57.807
lots and lots to cover.
00:01:57.816 --> 00:01:59.546
Jonny, thank you very much for coming along.
00:01:59.546 --> 00:01:59.826
Thank you.
00:01:59.826 --> 00:02:01.167
You Genuinely a pleasure.
00:02:01.527 --> 00:02:01.887
Brilliant.
00:02:04.257 --> 00:02:20.137
and I'm pleased you've recovered because as we record this, we are not sure when this episode's gonna go out, but, less than 48 hours ago, Sunderland qualified for the Europa, having finished seventh in the Premier League, my voice is just about recovered.
00:02:20.396 --> 00:02:31.657
Jonny's head is just about been screwed back onto his shoulders to be able to do a to And, on top of that, he's on a full day's coaching sessions with EVO at the beacon of light.
00:02:32.736 --> 00:02:34.967
no doubt your head is absolutely battered, Jonny.
00:02:35.287 --> 00:02:37.651
And, if you need to take a moment during your
00:02:37.951 --> 00:02:39.967
question, I'm just delighted to sit down if I'm brutally honest.
00:02:39.967 --> 00:02:46.627
It's, it's been a, it's been a really, fun, 9 hours, so no, really glad to be here.
00:02:47.076 --> 00:02:47.556
Amazing.
00:02:48.697 --> 00:02:57.586
so as i do with all of the goalkeepers and the coaches that we speak to, before we get into your journey, I'd like to just ask, who was your Goalkeeping idol growing up?
00:02:57.895 --> 00:03:06.378
Truthfully, I don't think this one's gonna go down too well, because I looked at it when you gave me the question initially and I said, am I gonna be truthful here?
00:03:06.378 --> 00:03:07.368
And I am gonna be truthful.
00:03:07.368 --> 00:03:07.699
Good.
00:03:07.998 --> 00:03:12.990
Shay given was my idol growing up when Newcastle were in the Champions League.
00:03:13.469 --> 00:03:22.770
I just thought the way he conducted himself around the goal, how reactive he was under his crossbar, and some of the big moments here you'd see him make, was amazing.
00:03:23.009 --> 00:03:37.620
I'd say from a, local sense and seeing him live, that was definitely someone who I looked up to moving more into, me as a player, I would say Joe Hart was very influential in that, in a sense of the England goalkeeper.
00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:38.159
Yeah.
00:03:38.819 --> 00:03:46.680
Joe in his prime was a beast in a sense of what he was psychologically, physically, and then also his game output as well.
00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:48.000
Is he really calm, wasn't he?
00:03:48.150 --> 00:03:48.569
just
00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:49.509
Yeah.
00:03:50.550 --> 00:03:53.860
I'm not gonna lie, I had a soft spot for Shay Given when I was a kid as well.
00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:58.180
obviously he spent his time here and, we have a, long history of really good goalkeepers here at Sunderland.
00:03:59.789 --> 00:04:01.349
so I'm really not surprised.
00:04:01.693 --> 00:04:04.183
I mentioned at the beginning that you came through the Academy of Light yourself.
00:04:04.243 --> 00:04:04.424
Yeah.
00:04:05.054 --> 00:04:08.104
what do you remember most clearly about being a young keeper at Sunderland?
00:04:08.707 --> 00:04:10.377
The amount of times I was there.
00:04:11.157 --> 00:04:11.697
Really.
00:04:11.828 --> 00:04:15.026
I think even in, in the game today, you see it within the academy.
00:04:15.597 --> 00:04:18.807
it's a real investment from not only the player but from the families.
00:04:19.377 --> 00:04:29.877
And I think the amount of hours you spend dedicating to your craft for an outcome that is not guaranteed is really difficult.
00:04:30.627 --> 00:04:37.396
and to be in the system from 9-year-old, believe it or not, I started playing for my local team as an outfielder at 9 years old, Yeah.
00:04:37.396 --> 00:04:37.916
8, 9 years old.
00:04:37.916 --> 00:04:42.476
My dad was the manager, kinda, the old cliche in that sense.
00:04:42.476 --> 00:04:42.627
Yeah.
00:04:42.656 --> 00:04:43.797
The goalkeeper had left.
00:04:44.607 --> 00:04:49.677
I was some lanky tall bean pole playing in the middle of the park.
00:04:49.737 --> 00:04:52.976
And my dad just went in you go son into the Russell Foster.
00:04:53.067 --> 00:04:55.826
And it was, it was actually a tournament we were playing in.
00:04:55.826 --> 00:05:01.826
And the opposite, manager had to rank the opposition goalkeeper out of 10.
00:05:01.826 --> 00:05:04.406
And that kind of score was collated at the end of the tournament.
00:05:04.766 --> 00:05:08.276
And it just so happened on that day that I'd scored the highest points.
00:05:08.906 --> 00:05:16.007
so I'm standing there collecting this trophy and, a Sunderland scout comes up to me and goes, how long you been playing in goal, son?
00:05:16.437 --> 00:05:19.406
And I went about five hours.
00:05:19.947 --> 00:05:23.487
And he was like, oh, would you like to come in for a trial?
00:05:24.057 --> 00:05:27.297
And back in those days it was the old like 6 to 8 week trial process.
00:05:27.747 --> 00:05:39.906
And, I actually only played 2 games at under 9's and straight away my mam and dad were in, they were taking me, they took me for a tour on the academy and basically just sat me down do you know why your here son?
00:05:39.906 --> 00:05:42.057
And I was like, no, not really.
00:05:42.086 --> 00:05:44.156
And he was like, oh, we'd to sign you.
00:05:44.637 --> 00:05:47.666
And literally, I hadn't looked back since then.
00:05:47.966 --> 00:05:48.297
Amazing.
00:05:48.927 --> 00:05:56.786
so really, unique space I was in with regards to the 10 years at the football club within the academy that I had.
00:05:58.557 --> 00:06:04.617
the cohort of goalkeepers we worked with over the span of the 10 years was remarkable.
00:06:04.617 --> 00:06:13.706
And I think that's credit to Mark Prudhoe, who again, needs no introduction in a sense of me, myself working alongside him now as a coach, but him being my coach as well.
00:06:14.007 --> 00:06:14.127
Yeah.
00:06:14.516 --> 00:06:22.047
in the early days, really giving me that, that core foundation to go and have a career in the game as well as many others.
00:06:22.505 --> 00:06:24.475
And so what age were you?
00:06:24.504 --> 00:06:26.024
'cause you were released eventually by Sunderland.
00:06:26.949 --> 00:06:27.810
in 2013.
00:06:27.810 --> 00:06:28.810
So what age group were you?
00:06:29.009 --> 00:06:30.805
I was the end, my end of my second year scholar.
00:06:31.110 --> 00:06:31.329
So
00:06:31.629 --> 00:06:34.428
it was, A difficult moment naturally.
00:06:34.488 --> 00:06:37.519
It was my first release, suddenly had been my club for 10 years.
00:06:38.298 --> 00:06:43.069
We lived in, the local area, 20 minute commute five times a week.
00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:44.689
I was getting outta school twice a week.
00:06:44.749 --> 00:06:50.838
I trained with the first team, I trained with, the old reserve teams had been exposed to an array of different things.
00:06:50.838 --> 00:06:56.269
And then that can soon end in a, 20 minute conversation just before the new Year period.
00:06:56.838 --> 00:07:04.129
I think thankfully, again, I'll echo that Pruds, had, a secondary plan for me.
00:07:04.488 --> 00:07:08.629
he thought I needed to go and experience the efl.
00:07:09.528 --> 00:07:14.269
and thankfully I went into League one as a, number 2 at just 18 years old.
00:07:14.658 --> 00:07:17.418
And our first game was live on sky away to Swindon.
00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:18.918
which I'll never forget.
00:07:18.918 --> 00:07:27.259
I sat on the bench, but in, in the moment as a second year scholar, it was just from academy football straight into the senior game and it was just sink or swim.
00:07:27.259 --> 00:07:39.619
And I think it, it didn't allow me a lot of time to reflect on the, downsides or the negative aspect of the release and just allowed me to just go, straight into the professional game,
00:07:40.249 --> 00:07:44.329
which I can imagine that that's really important to have that, plan B lined up.
00:07:44.329 --> 00:07:47.629
Because I'd imagine there's a lot of players out there that take that really personally.
00:07:48.983 --> 00:07:53.718
or it's, there's potential to take it really personally and, reflect on you're just not good enough.
00:07:54.228 --> 00:07:55.249
But that's not the case, is it?
00:07:55.249 --> 00:07:56.778
It's not the way it's worked.
00:07:56.869 --> 00:07:57.079
Yeah.
00:07:57.468 --> 00:08:01.879
I, think naively like I could sit here now and go, yeah, I had a plan B, but I didn't.
00:08:02.238 --> 00:08:11.689
And I think you'll probably asking 90% of players now at that age, you don't have a plan B because your ego's telling you and you were telling yourself, I'm gonna be a footballer.
00:08:11.689 --> 00:08:11.749
Yeah.
00:08:11.863 --> 00:08:19.668
And I think if you didn't have that mindset of that selfish mindset, I think the likelihood of you making it will be tough.
00:08:20.418 --> 00:08:21.199
It really would.
00:08:22.608 --> 00:08:25.819
because the game is more competitive now than ever.
00:08:26.293 --> 00:08:31.963
The amount of coaching and detail and opportunity and talent out there is ridiculous.
00:08:31.992 --> 00:08:36.822
and when you look at it, it's all gotta be crammed into the best league in the world of 20 teams.
00:08:36.852 --> 00:08:45.852
And you look that from a goalkeeper context, 20 teams of 3 goalkeepers, that's 60 spots in the world of all the ages that you need to be a part of.
00:08:45.852 --> 00:08:48.283
So when you look at the stat state and,
00:08:49.062 --> 00:08:53.082
and to your point, 2 of those, in each team are sat on the bench waiting for their moment.
00:08:53.082 --> 00:08:53.592
Exactly.
00:08:54.493 --> 00:08:55.123
Frightening.
00:08:55.572 --> 00:08:56.173
Frightening.
00:08:56.653 --> 00:09:00.552
And then obviously you, were at Leicester City as well, during.
00:09:00.748 --> 00:09:02.476
Something that's never happened before.
00:09:02.537 --> 00:09:06.736
During that period of time, what was, what, talk me through, how did you get to Leicester City?
00:09:06.736 --> 00:09:08.326
What was your role during that time?
00:09:08.326 --> 00:09:08.537
And
00:09:08.687 --> 00:09:15.017
so it was, it, actually worked out well for me doing the Crawley and the League one aspect first.
00:09:15.527 --> 00:09:29.057
so like I say, I think when I look back on my career as a whole, the academy, although I was there for 10 years and I got a great amount of detail, I think players sometimes sleep walk into a little bit of mediocracy or almost.
00:09:29.326 --> 00:09:41.596
and I'll open openly say that, when I look back at it and the release or the news were the best thing for me because it actually allowed me to reset and go again.
00:09:41.807 --> 00:09:52.937
I had 18 months of crawley and it was a real, experience in a sense of what league one football looked like and the not So glamorous aspects of it.
00:09:53.326 --> 00:10:06.886
So when I went back to Leicester and I was back in a football club that was really well resourced and had really good people around it, it was it was a bit of an epiphany in a sense of I'm not gonna let this go by any stretch.
00:10:06.886 --> 00:10:18.886
And, so the work rate knuckled down tenfold, and being around at the time Mike Stowell the goalkeeping coach, and we didn't have a lot of numbers in the PDP, which is your 18's and 21's phase.
00:10:19.456 --> 00:10:27.427
so Mike was very keen on integrating the under 21 boys or under 23 at the time with the first team.
00:10:27.866 --> 00:10:36.496
So to work on a daily basis with Mark Schwartzer, Kasper Schmeichel, Ben Hamer, was a real privilege for me.
00:10:37.937 --> 00:10:48.586
and like you say, the mindset of the football club at the time was, it was before the training ground before Seagrave came, the proud, of themselves under just hard work.
00:10:49.187 --> 00:10:52.096
it was a non-negotiable at the time, Nigel Pearson was a manager.
00:10:53.447 --> 00:10:55.157
and it suited me to the ground.
00:10:56.626 --> 00:11:06.647
like you say, for the kind of the 2 seasons I spent there, a real, array of, unforgettable memories, really looking back.
00:11:07.636 --> 00:11:13.897
I can only imagine, who, what you talked there about some of the senior goalkeepers that you worked alongside during your career.
00:11:16.356 --> 00:11:20.527
What's the, biggest learning point that you took in that phase when you are still a goalkeeper yourself?
00:11:20.527 --> 00:11:24.576
What's the biggest learning point that you took from more senior goalkeepers that you're around?
00:11:24.576 --> 00:11:28.297
What did you try and emulate from them that kind of made you better,
00:11:29.711 --> 00:11:44.580
I think I touched on it earlier and it's, a little bit of quiet arrogance and I call it quiet arrogance because, Neil talks about it again, and I know we'll touch on Neil in a little bit, but he's big on, a saying of, confidence on the verge of arrogance.
00:11:44.669 --> 00:11:57.240
And it's a real, fine line that you walk because in order to be top level and deal with the pressures of crowds, media expectation on a consistent basis, by the way, not just,
00:11:57.539 --> 00:11:57.779
yeah,
00:11:57.870 --> 00:12:05.546
once in a blue moon, you have to have a confidence or an ego about you that is gonna allow you to do that.
00:12:05.605 --> 00:12:17.275
But I think importantly, you look at the top, top athletes in the game, or, not even in football, just in sport in general, they have this really, high ego, but they balance it with an unbelievable humility.
00:12:17.546 --> 00:12:21.535
And I think to have that capacity to hold both is a real skill in
00:12:22.177 --> 00:12:38.846
I think that's something that's been echoed a lot by the other coaches that we've spoke to on the show as well, And I think it's almost ironic that for such a physical game, the key elements for so many players, and it's not just limited to goalkeepers and key elements for so many players are actually mental.
00:12:39.355 --> 00:12:46.285
And yet that's probably the part that nobody spends any time coaching people on at a young age.
00:12:46.735 --> 00:12:52.405
Or that sometimes that you can even coach into people'cause you've gotta, you've gotta come to that yourself as well, haven't you really?
00:12:52.975 --> 00:12:54.355
It's, either in you or it's not.
00:12:54.385 --> 00:12:54.596
Yeah.
00:12:54.655 --> 00:12:55.735
And it's like aggression, right?
00:12:56.426 --> 00:13:00.296
you can't, make a, an under 7, under 8 goalkeeper more aggressive at what they do.
00:13:00.296 --> 00:13:01.796
They've gotta come to that themselves.
00:13:02.057 --> 00:13:05.965
So you've found your way back to Sunderland, and was that intentional?
00:13:05.965 --> 00:13:09.355
Is that some, was that always part of what you wanted to do in the end?
00:13:09.745 --> 00:13:12.294
did you see yourself coming back to Sunderland eventually, or
00:13:12.595 --> 00:13:13.212
truthfully?
00:13:13.692 --> 00:13:15.013
No, I didn't.
00:13:15.133 --> 00:13:20.322
And truthfully, I didn't see myself when I transitioned out from playing as a coach.
00:13:21.552 --> 00:13:25.123
I knew I had detail and good understanding of what I wanted.
00:13:25.722 --> 00:13:33.312
I was a little bit, naive or inexperienced in the sense of how I wanted to communicate it across the, players.
00:13:34.932 --> 00:13:40.342
so when the coronavirus, when the pandemic came in, that was my last contract under Port vale.
00:13:41.893 --> 00:13:47.923
and I had a real, crossroads in my life in a sense of what I wanted to do.
00:13:48.793 --> 00:13:54.852
I had 2 years away from football completely because I think psychologically I was tapped out with the game.
00:13:55.423 --> 00:14:02.232
One and two year deals here and there, move into to every corner of the country missing out on key events.
00:14:02.562 --> 00:14:05.202
It was, a great, it was a, like an unbelievable sacrifice.
00:14:05.202 --> 00:14:12.043
It's, again, it's the same old story that will be echoed by many, but people only see the good sides of football.
00:14:12.043 --> 00:14:12.102
Yeah.
00:14:12.373 --> 00:14:22.513
and I think, again, reiterating that the season as a whole, or seasons as a whole are really tolling on you physically and mentally.
00:14:23.173 --> 00:14:43.572
so I had 2 years outta the game and, I'll say this open and honestly I was a delivery driver at Amazon, because I had, no, the skills, I had unbelievable aspects to give from football in sense, but from qualifications, all my friends were electricians, plumbers, skilled tradesmen, and what could I offer?
00:14:43.783 --> 00:14:48.202
Luckily in that moment, the pandemic was, the going rate was everyone was ordering online.
00:14:48.437 --> 00:14:48.498
Yeah.
00:14:48.503 --> 00:14:48.702
Yeah.
00:14:48.732 --> 00:14:53.592
So the going rate, so actually it was my brother that got me in the back door with regards to Amazon.
00:14:54.582 --> 00:14:55.572
the money was okay.
00:14:56.082 --> 00:15:00.102
It helped, it was important because I had to pay a bills, and
00:15:00.643 --> 00:15:01.513
give you breathing space.
00:15:01.633 --> 00:15:01.783
Right.
00:15:01.812 --> 00:15:02.113
Yeah.
00:15:02.173 --> 00:15:03.763
I had 2 years of just being normal.
00:15:04.393 --> 00:15:16.212
And I say normal loosely in a sense of if I wanted to go out to see my friends on a Tuesday night, play a bit of pool, maybe have a beer or 2, get some food, see birthdays with my mum.
00:15:16.482 --> 00:15:16.663
Yeah.
00:15:16.668 --> 00:15:20.743
my dad, my mum was, shielding at the time in, in, in the pandemic.
00:15:20.743 --> 00:15:26.082
And again, there, there was just a lot of things that made me just wanna be normal again.
00:15:26.832 --> 00:15:38.548
And I, first came back into Coach and through, through Middlesborough, it was after the 2 year period, there was a job on Indeed regarding just a part-time role, 9 to 16's.
00:15:39.373 --> 00:15:42.852
I just fired my CV out and then, ah, we'll give this a go.
00:15:43.363 --> 00:15:47.263
They've been in touch, I delivered 2 sessions and they were like, yeah, we want to take you on board.
00:15:47.263 --> 00:15:55.062
And it turned from part-time to pretty much full-time, working with the 9 to 16's, really good club, really good people.
00:15:55.783 --> 00:15:59.773
loved it was there for 4 to 6 months.
00:16:00.163 --> 00:16:08.592
And then I was on a CPD event actually when England come and they deliver, the kind of processes to all the different regions.
00:16:08.893 --> 00:16:09.192
Yeah.
00:16:09.942 --> 00:16:17.503
and it was hosted at Sunderland, so I went back to the club and I seen a lot of old faces that I hadn't seen for 10, 12 years.
00:16:17.503 --> 00:16:24.013
That was like the cleaning staff, the kitchen staff Pruds was there and they were just like, we thought you were still playing.
00:16:25.182 --> 00:16:25.962
Where have you been?
00:16:25.962 --> 00:16:29.653
And I was just like, no, I'm coaching and they were like, you're joking.
00:16:29.653 --> 00:16:33.432
And then one thing turned into another and I ended up being in there full time.
00:16:33.493 --> 00:16:39.072
So I'm really privileged to be sitting here now And in the position I am 4 years on.
00:16:41.113 --> 00:16:42.972
but yeah, I wouldn't, change it for the world.
00:16:42.972 --> 00:16:52.753
Now it's, I look back at it and it's all my experiences have shaped me to who I am and, naturally, football is where my heart is and where my skill set is.
00:16:52.753 --> 00:16:54.342
So long me that continue.
00:16:54.793 --> 00:16:55.482
That's amazing.
00:16:55.482 --> 00:16:57.673
And I can only imagine that means a lot to you personally.
00:16:58.302 --> 00:17:07.813
being a sunderland boy and growing up through the academy To return home, to give things another, to give the next generation their chance and, spend some time with them.
00:17:09.635 --> 00:17:10.903
It's, a fantastic story.
00:17:12.635 --> 00:17:16.272
obviously you've worked quite closely with the academy keepers, but you are now.
00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:26.878
Taking the next step in your own career, and getting to work along Neil, who from the, conversations I have with people is like, Neil's one of the best goalkeeper coaches in the world.
00:17:27.148 --> 00:17:27.628
Bar none.
00:17:27.929 --> 00:17:28.048
Yeah.
00:17:28.648 --> 00:17:31.048
so what's, the, plan?
00:17:31.378 --> 00:17:32.098
Is there, a plan?
00:17:32.098 --> 00:17:33.689
Is it kind of redundancy planning?
00:17:33.689 --> 00:17:37.108
What's the, I know, I dunno how much you can share or how much you can't work
00:17:37.108 --> 00:17:38.683
with, forgotten with regard to Neil or
00:17:39.209 --> 00:17:41.338
with, you working with Neil, with your step up and,
00:17:42.148 --> 00:17:51.838
I think firstly when the promotion happened a year ago, there was a lot of question with regards to what the coaching remit would look like.
00:17:52.409 --> 00:18:03.929
Alessandro, who by the way, is a, is an excellent young, modern goalkeeping coach who coached in so much detail and, helped me so much in the years prior.
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.469
he almost had me indirectly working with him a lot whenever he could.
00:18:07.469 --> 00:18:10.378
He appreciated that my commitment still lay with the academy.
00:18:11.098 --> 00:18:24.088
but whenever he could get me over there, he would, working with the senior boys at the time, I think it was Pat, Nathan, Bishop, Alex Bass, Jake Carney, it was really, good for me to get that exposure early.
00:18:25.078 --> 00:18:36.628
and I think, like you say, I was sitting in quite a niche space in a sense of me being quite younger for a coach, being a player and also having a bit of coaching detail as well.
00:18:37.919 --> 00:18:44.759
so it, allowed me to be really relatable with the boys and settle in with the seniors quite easily.
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:44.818
Yeah.
00:18:45.449 --> 00:18:46.949
maybe easier than most.
00:18:48.509 --> 00:19:09.375
so like I say, when, Neil was, had the chance to come in last year, for me it was, a reason that made me want to stay, not that I was in, in any rush to, to leave, but that it was just like, wow to work with this guy and even pull some little nuggets of, where he is been, what he's seen, who he's worked with.
00:19:10.246 --> 00:19:15.915
his time at Villa and obviously Emi Martinez is speaking as, as highly of him as, what he is.
00:19:15.915 --> 00:19:19.066
And the podcast he's been on from previous.
00:19:20.056 --> 00:19:46.066
I think the key thing he took, or I took from it was on the first day he sat me down and he just wrote environment and everyone thought it was gonna be, or I thought anyway, it was gonna be some kind of, magic word that, or way of coaching that it, that made him, but it wasn't, it was the environment and it was how we were with the players, our relationships with the players.
00:19:46.215 --> 00:19:48.195
And he said, I want that right from the get go.
00:19:48.605 --> 00:19:54.586
So he selfishly utilised me a lot more, in this season.
00:19:55.635 --> 00:20:03.576
and like you say, as the department is growing, it's, it is gonna be like, say looking really positive going in the next year and into europe.
00:20:04.012 --> 00:20:16.553
As I can only imagine, cause as a, from an outside perspective, you, we hear a lot of, how good the academy is and how we value bringing the young players through.
00:20:16.553 --> 00:20:21.833
And we've always done well, we've always, developed and brought on.
00:20:21.833 --> 00:20:26.843
But I guess the sticking point for some is we've always ended up being the club that had to cash in on them.
00:20:26.843 --> 00:20:30.502
'cause we were never quite big enough to hold on to the level of some of the players.
00:20:31.492 --> 00:20:34.853
Jordan Pickford being a great example, we would've loved to have held onto him.
00:20:36.682 --> 00:20:37.192
but I guess.
00:20:37.472 --> 00:20:41.512
As we've now moved into being a Premier League club again and moving forward into Europe.
00:20:41.573 --> 00:20:49.883
But it makes sense that the coaching staff also get those opportunities not just to be working with the academy, but to be working with the first team and bring the 2 together.
00:20:49.913 --> 00:20:54.262
'cause that gap now between academy and first team must be monumental.
00:20:54.742 --> 00:20:55.042
Yeah.
00:20:55.133 --> 00:20:56.303
Bigger than it's ever been before.
00:20:56.782 --> 00:21:05.692
And I think that was the biggest thing of kind of what we went after this year with, especially the PDP goalkeepers because we were looking at that gap of what it was.
00:21:05.952 --> 00:21:09.232
I, would say somewhat linear, but not really.
00:21:09.232 --> 00:21:19.823
But when we were in the championship, it was more linear when we were in League one because the opportunity of the players there were a lot higher, because of the resource had or, didn't have.
00:21:20.663 --> 00:21:25.673
and say when we went into the premier, that gap had just gone from 21's to first teams boom.
00:21:26.813 --> 00:21:26.962
Yeah.
00:21:27.022 --> 00:21:34.042
And I was sitting there almost like in the space in between the 2 going, what can we do?
00:21:34.583 --> 00:21:35.393
What can we affect?
00:21:36.502 --> 00:21:37.613
What can we change?
00:21:37.883 --> 00:21:41.423
and I think the biggest thing we utilised this year was the loan system.
00:21:42.682 --> 00:21:50.573
and how we manage the loans of some of the senior players in the 21's to go and get a CV in the game.
00:21:50.992 --> 00:21:51.143
Yeah.
00:21:51.143 --> 00:21:55.222
Go and get a real exposure of what it looks like in, in the non league.
00:21:57.143 --> 00:22:02.242
and more importantly, give the younger players in the academy an opportunity.
00:22:03.863 --> 00:22:08.163
and like you say, we've got players like Joe Cowen who played in the PL Cup final.
00:22:08.303 --> 00:22:08.542
Yeah.
00:22:08.663 --> 00:22:10.653
It's 16 years old in the under 21's.
00:22:11.482 --> 00:22:11.752
Yeah.
00:22:11.813 --> 00:22:13.252
Which is remarkable,
00:22:13.252 --> 00:22:13.762
phenomenal.
00:22:13.792 --> 00:22:17.182
And it's the same as Matty, when Matty had that opportunity as well.
00:22:17.182 --> 00:22:28.403
But we're big advocates now on, we have to stretch, but we also have to be very, careful of what that stretch looks like, because when you stretch things they can snap.
00:22:28.702 --> 00:22:28.913
Yeah.
00:22:29.002 --> 00:22:29.782
They can break.
00:22:30.113 --> 00:22:49.762
So we have to make sure that, I would say, if you look at it from a 4 corner perspective, technical, tactical, physical, psychological, the 2 key aspects that we look for in the goalkeeper is are they physically capable to handle the demands of being stretched in a senior environment or into a phase above them, like age group?
00:22:50.242 --> 00:22:53.423
and are they psychologically capable to do it?
00:22:53.843 --> 00:22:55.042
Have they got good temperament?
00:22:55.673 --> 00:23:01.762
That was probably one of the questions I'm quite curious about is how much contact do you have with the goalkeepers that are out on loan?
00:23:02.603 --> 00:23:12.388
is it, do you spend a lot of time with their current parent clubs, working with them on the development plans or is it your theirs now and we'll see you in a bit.
00:23:12.388 --> 00:23:18.749
I think I subconsciously took on the, goal keeping loans manager role within the 21's especially.
00:23:18.959 --> 00:23:22.229
We had, Dan Cameron out on loan to hebburn town.
00:23:22.229 --> 00:23:36.749
We had Isaac Allen out on loan to hebburn Town because of Dan's performances for Hebburn It, turned into where a step one National League loan into Boston, which was great because it was shown to me that his cv was becoming stronger.
00:23:36.749 --> 00:23:42.614
He was getting noticed and that secondary loan would never have come about if the hebburn aspect hadn't come.
00:23:43.108 --> 00:23:47.278
Thankfully geographically hebburn's 20 minutes away.
00:23:47.459 --> 00:23:52.558
So we could control what his training provision looked like Monday to Friday.
00:23:52.558 --> 00:23:54.298
hebburn were very accommodating with it.
00:23:54.298 --> 00:23:58.618
They were on board, and they just allowed him to play on the match day.
00:23:59.009 --> 00:24:09.538
We'd still give him his post match analysis, their analyst would send us through the clips that we could go through and the fine deal and give them the same service as what it would be like playing in the 21's.
00:24:09.838 --> 00:24:09.959
Yeah.
00:24:11.909 --> 00:24:16.858
and again, I think it just helped with the whole environment of the goal keeping department.
00:24:17.068 --> 00:24:24.659
We had 6 in the PDP and managing them all when there's only 1 in 18's game on a Saturday and 1 in the 21's game on a Monday.
00:24:24.778 --> 00:24:26.519
That's 4 others that aren't getting something.
00:24:26.818 --> 00:24:26.999
Yeah.
00:24:27.479 --> 00:24:36.058
like you say from a from an outcome perspective to have, boys out on alone and boys getting a stretch in around it was brilliant.
00:24:36.538 --> 00:24:37.048
Amazing.
00:24:38.159 --> 00:24:44.586
And then coming back to where we are now, I've been bringing my son to games for what, 2 and a half years.
00:24:44.586 --> 00:24:49.686
And we've seen you out on the pitch warm and warming the keepers up almost that entire time, or if not all of it.
00:24:51.846 --> 00:24:59.916
what's that experience like and Prematch on Match day with, we're blessed in the Northeast and I say that with baited Breath, right?
00:24:59.916 --> 00:24:59.977
Yeah.
00:24:59.977 --> 00:25:03.846
Like we're very blessed to have 3 big teams with huge support.
00:25:03.846 --> 00:25:03.906
Yeah.
00:25:04.807 --> 00:25:10.416
what's it like being out there with 48,000 people setting expectations, 3000 away
00:25:10.416 --> 00:25:12.336
fans being quite loud and vocal.
00:25:13.057 --> 00:25:13.987
You carry it hard.
00:25:14.047 --> 00:25:14.797
You carry it hard.
00:25:14.797 --> 00:25:21.217
And I think, I dread to think what someone like Robin carries when he's playing.
00:25:21.217 --> 00:25:25.267
He's in the moment and I'm on the sidelines and my work's done.
00:25:25.326 --> 00:25:25.537
Yeah.
00:25:25.747 --> 00:25:33.547
So when an outcome happens, positive or negative, we're sometimes sitting there going, what would I have done differently or what could I have done more?
00:25:33.547 --> 00:25:34.777
How would I have structured the week?
00:25:34.777 --> 00:25:37.086
Or how would myself and Cuts(Neil Cutler) have structured the week?
00:25:37.686 --> 00:25:40.057
Should we have given X or Y or done whatever.
00:25:40.057 --> 00:25:41.676
But it's hindsight, isn't it?
00:25:42.217 --> 00:25:44.646
and I think that's the beauty of football.
00:25:44.767 --> 00:25:55.372
But going back to the magnitude of the club, and I'll give, Sunday as prime example, we left on the coach from the academy from pre-match.
00:25:55.537 --> 00:25:58.686
And we, all of our prep was done, everything was ready.
00:25:58.717 --> 00:26:00.126
We were just ready to go to the game.
00:26:00.126 --> 00:26:11.497
And when we seen the masses that had, that had congregated around the ground and the flares, and it took us 30 minutes to get into the ground because it was, that much.
00:26:12.096 --> 00:26:20.646
But I knew straight away when we went down into the dressing rooms and sat, I knew we were gonna win because of that.
00:26:20.737 --> 00:26:34.477
And I think from myself, and there'll be a lot of fans that are watching this, it's a big thank you from not only myself, but the rest of the coaching staff and the players that they were the 12th man in that and they've been the 12th man all year.
00:26:34.477 --> 00:26:43.027
They've been brilliant and like you say, it's so rewarding to see from someone who has a real personal affiliation with a football club.
00:26:43.326 --> 00:26:43.596
Yeah.
00:26:44.166 --> 00:26:45.511
as well as a professional one.
00:26:45.811 --> 00:26:57.602
if I might speak on behalf of the rest of the Sunderland and fans, it's genuinely old pleasure to be the 12th man on that pitch because I think we do appreciate a lot of the time, a lot of the fans appreciate the hard work that goes into that preparation.
00:26:57.602 --> 00:27:12.471
You can see it in the moments before the match, the how tuned in everybody is and how focused everyone is, but I when you are in those final moments before, is there anything that you guys are particularly looking for as coaching team?
00:27:12.681 --> 00:27:17.721
is it just a warmup or is there anything else in there that you guys take away from that?
00:27:17.961 --> 00:27:21.800
I think firstly the warm ups are very precious to the goalkeeper, so they're very different.
00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:25.431
obviously we've had, Robin has played the lions share of the games.
00:27:25.431 --> 00:27:27.560
We've had a period where Melker has stepped in.
00:27:28.191 --> 00:27:33.961
And again, I think he got a little bit of a baptism of fire in a sense of playing in the Derby He certain did.
00:27:33.961 --> 00:27:36.105
and let alone picking his Premier League debut.
00:27:36.969 --> 00:27:40.929
I think the key thing is don't go in too hard with them.
00:27:40.989 --> 00:27:42.489
Don't give them too much.
00:27:42.638 --> 00:27:44.469
Your details done in the week, Monday, Friday.
00:27:44.469 --> 00:27:44.558
Yeah.
00:27:44.648 --> 00:27:45.669
They're intelligent guys.
00:27:45.699 --> 00:27:47.259
They know what they need and what they don't need.
00:27:47.618 --> 00:27:50.499
For me, the warmup is more of a psychological rehearsal.
00:27:50.858 --> 00:27:50.979
Yeah.
00:27:50.979 --> 00:27:52.598
For them to emulate what they need.
00:27:52.659 --> 00:27:56.348
some key, some goalies I've known and I've worked with to be overcooked.
00:27:56.348 --> 00:27:59.528
They're like a lot of reps and a lot of up downs so they feel ready.
00:27:59.648 --> 00:28:00.669
Others like less.
00:28:02.318 --> 00:28:08.888
with Robin, he's a little bit in between, but I think one thing is, his temperament is, he knows exactly he's not phased.
00:28:08.979 --> 00:28:10.148
He's really not phased.
00:28:10.148 --> 00:28:19.778
And for a boy who's just gone 23, to be able to handle that in an environment of 48,000 Mackems is remarkable.
00:28:20.739 --> 00:28:30.699
He doesn't, it's funny'cause I often think just, even just looking at him, he doesn't look 23, he doesn't look 22 as we first met him He looks years and years older.
00:28:32.108 --> 00:28:34.659
not because he's got an old face, he just carries.
00:28:34.659 --> 00:28:35.828
It's the way he carries himself.
00:28:35.828 --> 00:28:36.489
I think it's, you are right.
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:42.368
Like it's, that charisma that he's just, seems like he's born for that next level.
00:28:43.358 --> 00:28:45.489
and we're very privileged to have him around.
00:28:45.939 --> 00:28:50.409
to be able to see him firsthand before he, I have no doubt he will move on to do whatever he needs to do.
00:28:50.409 --> 00:28:52.689
I'd like to think we managed to keep him, but
00:28:52.743 --> 00:28:53.263
fingers crossed.
00:28:54.723 --> 00:28:57.219
but we've got our work cut out for us if that's what we're gonna do.
00:28:57.489 --> 00:29:03.878
And, that kind of comes into, we talked about Sunday qualifying for the Europa League and i guess.
00:29:05.611 --> 00:29:10.582
whilst that still fresh in, it's, less than 48 hours since we, since that moment.
00:29:11.031 --> 00:29:12.771
Are you guys now thinking hard?
00:29:12.771 --> 00:29:13.582
about next season?
00:29:13.582 --> 00:29:16.102
How does that impact on your coaching?
00:29:16.102 --> 00:29:20.001
Because obviously you're playing 2 games a week or for some parts of the year now.
00:29:20.872 --> 00:29:21.741
do you train harder?
00:29:21.741 --> 00:29:22.971
Do you train less hard?
00:29:23.211 --> 00:29:23.541
What's,
00:29:23.842 --> 00:29:37.582
I think that's probably, if I don't delve too much into the physical aspect of it, because the guys in the performance department from especially first team level have controlled that and can be done a, really good job on that.
00:29:38.182 --> 00:30:01.432
but I think just to give you a small snippet of what it is, I think since the promotion, the game, the training week has been based more around your tactical aspects of what the opposition are and from a recovery perspective, like the recovery aspect of the game is so important because ultimately we can have you fresh for a training week, but your match day is where it all matters.
00:30:01.761 --> 00:30:02.031
Yeah.
00:30:02.332 --> 00:30:08.031
You can't see a manager going, oh, we trained really well Monday to Friday, but we lost people don't care.
00:30:08.517 --> 00:30:08.807
Yeah.
00:30:09.106 --> 00:30:09.321
Yeah.
00:30:09.321 --> 00:30:10.011
It's irrelevant.
00:30:10.971 --> 00:30:22.582
so I think the managing of the week is, has been a real, change in a sense of what the championship offered in comparison to the premier.
00:30:22.821 --> 00:30:38.632
And also for me personally working within the academy from a developmental sense or developmental hat going into a performance environment where you match day is your bread and butter, is your key focus, but it, makes the week feel a lot more purposeful.
00:30:38.932 --> 00:30:39.112
Yeah.
00:30:39.741 --> 00:30:45.261
and then when the outcome comes and hopefully a positive one, it also makes it a lot more rewarding as well.
00:30:45.561 --> 00:30:51.423
you mentioned working with Neil earlier on and, his conversation about environment and being as one team.
00:30:52.712 --> 00:30:55.353
how does that get implemented in the everyday?
00:30:55.833 --> 00:31:02.432
What does that, actually look like, especially now considering, we're talking about elite level football now, where we're Europe, Premier League.
00:31:03.242 --> 00:31:04.742
What does that look like on a daily?
00:31:05.492 --> 00:31:17.313
So you said something really interesting and I think again, the guys watching and yourself will be, under no illusions that the way the game is going, it's very, tactical.
00:31:17.313 --> 00:31:18.903
It's very in depth.
00:31:18.962 --> 00:31:31.232
There's so much information that's thrown around, whether it's from set players, whether it's physical data and outputs in your GPS, whether it's formations, whether it's, whatever, the analysis side of things.
00:31:31.242 --> 00:31:36.182
And There's so much thrown on the player psychologically that it can just be information overload.
00:31:36.573 --> 00:31:43.323
And I think sometimes the aspect of the human needs to come into play because ultimately the players aren't robots.
00:31:43.442 --> 00:31:43.532
Yeah.
00:31:43.532 --> 00:31:53.222
And for us to have that connection and the goal keeping coach and the role, of us dealing with such small numbers and having that relationship.
00:31:53.222 --> 00:31:56.792
So we have days where we go heavy on social.
00:31:57.932 --> 00:32:11.103
and again, I think it's quite, even in the modern day, like a lot of European influx and they look and they see the the social aspect and it can sometimes be going, oh, what are they doing there?
00:32:11.113 --> 00:32:13.153
they're playing head tennis or they're playing two touch.
00:32:13.452 --> 00:32:13.682
Yeah.
00:32:14.393 --> 00:32:19.383
Cuts has got a really good game where we play two touch, but we play it in a small grid.
00:32:20.553 --> 00:32:29.103
and basically there's balls everywhere and if you hit balls, you lose lives and X, y, z Then there's, a, again, if you, don't mind me sharing this, there's money on it.
00:32:29.492 --> 00:32:29.613
Yeah.
00:32:30.482 --> 00:32:40.117
and again, I'll say this quite lightly, some the more, some of the money that, that Robin than some of the senior boys in comparison to us is a lot different.
00:32:40.593 --> 00:32:45.057
So when we're playing for 50 quid, I am, I definitely don't want to lose.
00:32:46.413 --> 00:32:53.492
it can get quite intense, but I think it's really good, that we have that,'cause it keeps it competitive.
00:32:53.762 --> 00:32:56.432
It keeps you psychologically engaged in the session.
00:32:56.643 --> 00:33:18.353
And I think when we implement that at the start of training for 10, 15, 20 minutes, when they then go into the session up here, they're firing and they're already ready to go because again, you don't mind me saying there's been many times, whether you're a young kid or you're a senior goalkeeper, you'll roll out bed one day and you'll be going.
00:33:19.423 --> 00:33:19.432
i
00:33:19.432 --> 00:33:20.971
don't fancy it Today or, yeah.
00:33:21.631 --> 00:33:31.171
so like having that aspect at the start is so important and Neil's design and his processes in the sense of what the session looks like.
00:33:31.201 --> 00:33:39.990
He's big on the reactiveness of not only the feet and how we move and the mechanics, but also the mind stimulating the mind, the hand-eye coordination.
00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:51.840
So we do a lot of table tennis leading into the training and it, it's a tiny ball and it's intense and it's quick, but when you come out, you take it around the grass, the guys are there upstairs.
00:33:51.840 --> 00:33:56.701
So it's really, creative and meticulous and in what he does.
00:33:57.961 --> 00:34:02.580
but the, say that the cohort we're working with have been really receptive to that.
00:34:03.721 --> 00:34:07.740
it's interesting because that's almost mirrors the way you teach academy players, right?
00:34:08.101 --> 00:34:09.690
make it fun, make a game of it, Yeah.
00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.550
Make, get them involved together.
00:34:12.570 --> 00:34:35.884
so it's interesting to hear that even at that elite level, there's a certain part of the keepers that still need that, fun, the dopamine, the adrenaline, the competition, going back to match day, but like, when the young keepers are watching, from the terraces, they're watching their idols warming up, down on the pitch, what's some of the things that they can take away from themselves, with preparation for their own match deal or just in general?
00:34:36.184 --> 00:34:45.804
I'd say the biggest thing, and I'd say this from a scouting perspective, when I've gone to watch goalkeepers in the past, I think you get a lot from them when they're not in the working set.
00:34:46.855 --> 00:34:53.155
So in a sense of if they're doing a crossing practise, don't watch the final action of how they're claim the cross watch.
00:34:53.155 --> 00:34:54.324
When they're going to get the balls.
00:34:54.744 --> 00:34:56.184
What, when they're standing by the goal.
00:34:56.485 --> 00:34:56.664
Yeah.
00:34:57.175 --> 00:34:57.985
How are they standing?
00:34:58.045 --> 00:35:10.344
What's their body language portraying to the rest of the, not only to their peers, but to the rest of the stadium, to they look calm, Do they look, assured, do they look in control or is it the opposite of that?
00:35:10.885 --> 00:35:12.445
And I think you get a lot from that.
00:35:13.045 --> 00:35:15.469
So for me, that would probably be the one thing you look at.
00:35:15.802 --> 00:35:34.693
I guess it's one of those things that like, must be really hard to see that at a young age because they're all full of beans and on, and when they're not in the moment, it can be really boring for them at that age and then all of a sudden, I can imagine they get to a certain age and it just clicks for them, which is when a lot of them get picked up.
00:35:34.693 --> 00:35:44.742
But it's interesting that and again, it's not something that they can really be coached on, but something they can be conscious of themselves so that when they get to that age, they can do that.
00:35:45.043 --> 00:35:46.572
I think it's, sorry to interrupt on that.
00:35:46.572 --> 00:35:54.492
I think it's important that you go through a process of being conscious and again, touching on kind of Neil and what we deliver to the group.
00:35:54.492 --> 00:36:00.402
It's whether it's the save choice and the outcome or whether it's a psychological coping skill.
00:36:00.583 --> 00:36:18.282
You have to be self-aware and conscious of, what you're doing in the moment, but then take it to a subconscious outcome because naturally in game you'll revert back to your subconscious because the game is so quick and reactive, so important to dip in and out of those two states.
00:36:18.313 --> 00:36:29.503
But I think, like you say, when you become more senior in yourself and more self-aware of what you are as not only a goalkeeper, but as a person, really, important to dig between the two sticks
00:36:29.802 --> 00:36:31.663
And it's such an influential position as well.
00:36:33.492 --> 00:36:51.193
you don't quite see as many keepers who are captains of their team anymore as you used to back in the 90's and the, early 2000's but it's still such a massively influential position and I see a lot of young keepers, 3 or 4 goals passed and the chins go down and I can only imagine the impact that has on the rest of the team.
00:36:51.193 --> 00:37:00.103
So to a certain extent, regardless how you feel inside, it's about maintaining that calm exterior that helps give your team the confidence.
00:37:00.402 --> 00:37:00.583
Yeah.
00:37:00.882 --> 00:37:08.927
you think that the young keepers today understand enough about what an outfield coach would want from them?
00:37:09.086 --> 00:37:23.246
How does a young goalkeeper cross that barrier between, I'm just a shots stopper for quite a lot of the young period of time to be part of that outfield team and be effective and be noticed.
00:37:23.596 --> 00:37:40.447
I think firstly just on that aspect is if you were to break down goalkeeping from, say defending the goal, defending the area space and im possession, if I was to say, who's the best at defending the goal, you'd say x.
00:37:41.317 --> 00:37:46.925
If you were to say defending the space scenario, you'd say Y if you were to say in possession, you'd say another.
00:37:47.614 --> 00:37:52.054
So I think the key message in that is there is no one size fits all approach.
00:37:52.684 --> 00:37:53.945
Just like an outfielder.
00:37:53.945 --> 00:38:00.664
They, the goalkeeper will possess a super strength and they'll have areas of the game that they're not so comfortable with.
00:38:01.144 --> 00:38:12.635
and I think from a grassroots level, it's really important that the managers understand what their goalkeeper is, what their strengths are and can you more importantly utilise that on a match day?
00:38:13.114 --> 00:38:24.994
Because like you say, we don't have the luxury of when, you're working at senior level and the club has a philosophy or a style of play and they go and recruit a goalkeeper based on what that philosophy is.
00:38:25.385 --> 00:38:29.824
I think when you're at grassroots, level, the education of the role is so important.
00:38:30.905 --> 00:38:43.445
and like you say, my kinda advice to any goalkeeper at that level is to just go and explore as many different avenues as possible.
00:38:43.445 --> 00:38:53.704
So go and get the ball from your centre half in the wackiest position, go and be brave and come and effect that cutback cross or that aerial duel or go out and block spread.
00:38:54.184 --> 00:38:56.436
because you'll find so much more out about yourself.
00:38:56.737 --> 00:38:58.567
Experiment while you're in the development age.
00:38:59.286 --> 00:39:00.126
you're there to have fun.
00:39:00.277 --> 00:39:00.577
Yeah.
00:39:00.637 --> 00:39:12.847
And I think, there's, I think that's something that I, personally try and influence with my son is, if you're out there having fun, then you'll naturally experiment with things, but try not to feel it.
00:39:13.132 --> 00:39:15.382
There's a lot of pressure in it, isn't It It's, a lot.
00:39:15.411 --> 00:39:15.996
It's hard.
00:39:16.213 --> 00:39:23.434
what would you say is, in your opinion, the biggest misconception young keepers have about playing out from the back?
00:39:23.858 --> 00:39:24.989
It always has to be short.
00:39:25.467 --> 00:39:36.286
the actions in game with the ball at feet is undeniable in a sense of the responsibility of it and the amount of contacts with the ball at the feet, you're gonna have.
00:39:36.856 --> 00:39:44.626
So the goalkeeper, whether they like it or not, has to be efficient and effective with the ball, at the feet, left and right foot.
00:39:45.496 --> 00:39:53.297
so we, go, we call first line passing, with your back line, second line in your midfield, third line into your top line.
00:39:54.016 --> 00:39:58.456
You have to have an array of clubs in your locker to be able to execute.
00:39:58.936 --> 00:40:06.972
And I think it's like anything, when you say to the, to the goalkeeper, right gonna play from the back today, they think, oh, I need to pass it.
00:40:06.976 --> 00:40:07.697
I send it back.
00:40:08.476 --> 00:40:08.597
Yeah.
00:40:08.597 --> 00:40:10.637
Really there's so much more to that.
00:40:10.936 --> 00:40:11.117
Yeah.
00:40:12.706 --> 00:40:24.646
and I think, like you say, they,the amount of times that you see it, in academies, you see it in any kind of youth phases where they go, the coach showed me a play, play from back, play short.
00:40:24.646 --> 00:40:27.197
And it's such a close-minded way of thinking.
00:40:28.516 --> 00:40:39.706
I think the big, the key message in it is almost to watch the first team since the boss came in and he's big on a word, that he uses a lot in the build and he, says be adaptable.
00:40:39.733 --> 00:40:43.364
And it, it's such a refreshing way of putting it.
00:40:43.483 --> 00:40:43.634
Yeah.
00:40:43.934 --> 00:40:51.764
Because with, again, in the top level with the analysis of the opposition, what you have, you play in a certain way.
00:40:51.824 --> 00:40:56.833
I'm telling you now, the next Saturday you play a team will be set up to combat the way you play.
00:40:57.373 --> 00:40:58.664
So you have to be adaptable.
00:40:58.873 --> 00:40:58.963
Yeah.
00:40:58.963 --> 00:41:01.034
And the same in the concept in the grassroots.
00:41:01.063 --> 00:41:07.034
If you wanna go short only do it once, twice, three times, then the next one might go, your fullback might go into your nine.
00:41:07.393 --> 00:41:07.574
Yeah.
00:41:07.634 --> 00:41:08.713
Might go over the top.
00:41:09.583 --> 00:41:09.733
Yeah.
00:41:09.824 --> 00:41:13.094
And then it changes the dynamic, and then you can go back to playing short.
00:41:13.153 --> 00:41:14.864
So it's a bit of cat and mouse almost.
00:41:15.193 --> 00:41:17.264
and I think that's where your intelligence comes in.
00:41:17.264 --> 00:41:17.474
Yeah.
00:41:17.713 --> 00:41:41.474
And you've got a, I think common sense has to come in a little bit, but I think in the game now, coaches are what i'd class as super coaches in a mentality of the detail and the education that players are getting now at a young age, technically and tactically through their analysis is it's never any better than it's ever been.
00:41:41.623 --> 00:41:45.733
And it's brilliant because the game understanding is top.
00:41:46.304 --> 00:41:51.643
But what you're actually doing is you're taking away the emphasis of them making the decision in the moment, in the pressure.
00:41:52.543 --> 00:41:58.393
Which brings me back to my earlier point of just keep exploring, just keep failing and you'll learn.
00:41:58.514 --> 00:42:12.764
And the more situations you put yourself in time, after time, after time, after time, you're gonna build those neurological patterns of, oh, this happened the last time I did it, so why don't I change it or change this or change the way I pass it into.
00:42:13.273 --> 00:42:13.574
Okay.
00:42:13.574 --> 00:42:15.164
And that's where your learning comes.
00:42:16.123 --> 00:42:26.804
So really, like big message to just stay adaptable in who you are and, but work on the technical aspects of what your choice of club is gonna be.
00:42:27.764 --> 00:42:31.423
And I mean club by as in what your, pass is gonna be.
00:42:31.724 --> 00:42:31.844
Yeah.
00:42:32.233 --> 00:42:41.072
obviously, I gave you some questions before we came here, but there is something else that's occurred to me whilst we've been sitting here talking, and I'm interested to hear your opinion on it I'm a young goalkeeper.
00:42:41.072 --> 00:42:42.181
I wanna be picked up by academy.
00:42:42.181 --> 00:42:43.411
I wanna play professional.
00:42:43.711 --> 00:42:52.141
Do they need to play Premier League first, first division grassroots to be able to be picked up by scouts at that age?
00:42:52.891 --> 00:42:54.871
Or do, are there other options for them?
00:42:55.701 --> 00:43:09.447
I think the biggest thing from a scouting perspective is, especially at those young ages, when we look at it, the key message for me is do they have a unique, a unique trait, that makes'them stand out from the rest?
00:43:09.847 --> 00:43:12.907
Now, you'll probably ask me, what is that?
00:43:13.536 --> 00:43:13.686
It could be anything.
00:43:14.032 --> 00:43:20.436
It Could be this boy stands ridiculously high in the goal and in the build and he just wants to get the ball all the time.
00:43:20.436 --> 00:43:30.907
And he's like an extra outfield player and he's, bump, bump,bump could be that, or he could just be an absolute demon in the goal and just makes, saves constantly just like getting hit and block and brave as a lion.
00:43:31.661 --> 00:43:40.836
Or he could just be, have a personality, a pitch personality that we talk about where his shoulders are back, his voice is commanding his back line.
00:43:40.836 --> 00:43:54.300
He's got that aura about him that's like rubbing off onto the rest of the team and actually his in game actions will be somewhat lower because he's actually diffusing situations without them becoming natural outcomes with regarding to the goalkeeper.
00:43:55.717 --> 00:44:00.427
so I think the key thing we look at is do they have a clear super strength?
00:44:00.907 --> 00:44:09.036
Because ultimately you can be good across the board, but what's gonna get you noticed is having a real super strength and polishing that super strength.
00:44:09.697 --> 00:44:10.867
But it could be absolutely anything.
00:44:11.250 --> 00:44:19.728
I guess in answer to that, then it doesn't matter whether they're playing division one, whether they're playing division three, division five, probably more likely to be spotted at the high level games, but
00:44:19.759 --> 00:44:20.028
yeah.
00:44:20.059 --> 00:44:20.389
Yeah.
00:44:20.389 --> 00:44:25.849
And I think especially going back to your, your experiences of what you're exposed to at a young age.
00:44:26.179 --> 00:44:37.518
I think if you're at, if you're at top team where you're at the best team and you're standing there and you're standing with your trophies at the end of your tournaments and you've got a chest full of, it's full of trophies, but actually I've probably only saved 3 shots all season.
00:44:38.778 --> 00:44:39.349
it's different.
00:44:39.648 --> 00:44:39.798
Yeah.
00:44:40.998 --> 00:44:51.496
put yourself in the firing line and I think it's hard now more than ever because of, I think social media and pressure to perform and people look at the outcome and the outcome is the trophy.
00:44:51.797 --> 00:44:51.916
Yeah.
00:44:52.217 --> 00:44:55.666
Or the outcome is the kit or the picture or whatever that is.
00:44:56.086 --> 00:45:01.726
And I think, like you say, that the, process behind it of just having good habits and doing things right.
00:45:02.896 --> 00:45:09.981
and really walking off the pitch going, you know what, I got better today is the key message development is so key at that age.
00:45:09.981 --> 00:45:18.199
Keep failing And failing until you learn because when the moment comes when you are warming up in front of 52,000, you can't fail.
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:18.918
Yeah.
00:45:19.384 --> 00:45:23.869
and I'll put that bluntly because there's detrimental factors to it.
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:24.378
Yeah.
00:45:24.588 --> 00:45:30.798
But because you failed so many times, leading to that point, you have a coping mechanism of how to execute.
00:45:31.099 --> 00:45:31.278
Yeah.
00:45:31.579 --> 00:45:35.869
So really powerful and an important takeaway I'd say with regard to that.
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:37.458
Amazing.
00:45:38.179 --> 00:45:40.248
I've got 2 questions that remain.
00:45:40.998 --> 00:45:44.179
one kind of following on from what we've got and then one, bringing it back to you.
00:45:44.626 --> 00:46:04.695
We spend a lot of time asking questions about the keepers and academies and careers and things, but for the parents that are out there and they've got a young goalkeeper, what do you often find that parents don't understand about the goalkeeper journey that, that you wish they did, that you wish that you could pass on to them or ingrained in them in some way?
00:46:05.804 --> 00:46:06.572
It's bumpy.
00:46:07.250 --> 00:46:08.119
it's not linear.
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:08.929
Yeah.
00:46:11.690 --> 00:46:13.369
I think that's life in general.
00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:17.110
I'm doing a lot of research now on the psychological aspect of the game.
00:46:17.170 --> 00:46:24.670
'cause I felt it was what I lacked as a player and maybe was the reason why I didn't reach the heights of maybe that was once expected of me.
00:46:26.949 --> 00:46:28.960
I could perform but not consistently.
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:33.849
And the burden I carried psychologically in that almost perfectionism mindset.
00:46:33.849 --> 00:46:42.519
And I think a lot of goalkeepers and parents, of goalkeeper coaches out there have a perfectionist mindset that everything has to be perfect.
00:46:42.909 --> 00:46:52.480
And I think that was the key message, even on the camps to do, you could have a 100 actions of whatever in, in the domains of the session.
00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:55.449
And your telling me you're gonna get a 100 clean.
00:46:56.619 --> 00:46:57.340
It's not possible.
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:57.849
Yeah.
00:46:58.342 --> 00:47:05.211
The key information and again, in context is to make sure, are you learning?
00:47:05.211 --> 00:47:08.331
Are you conscious of what you're good at and what you're not good at?
00:47:08.722 --> 00:47:12.831
And then more importantly, when you cross the white line, can you then execute that in the moment?
00:47:13.132 --> 00:47:15.052
Because you might only have one chance at it.
00:47:15.186 --> 00:47:15.476
Yeah.
00:47:15.777 --> 00:47:25.041
So you could get it right 99 times out of a 100, but if you step across the white line and you can't in that moment, then that becomes a problem, doesn't it?
00:47:25.672 --> 00:47:42.862
So I think understanding that scruffy and it might not look clean and there'll be a lot of maybe throwaway comments with regards to the outfielders, or whether that's a coach or other parents that don't understand the position.
00:47:44.061 --> 00:47:45.052
it can be lonely.
00:47:45.052 --> 00:47:50.692
the biggest thing I would say is allow your child, son or daughter to just speak.
00:47:50.692 --> 00:47:52.731
Allow them to speak before you speak.
00:47:53.001 --> 00:47:56.121
Ask them what they think and more importantly, what they were feeling.
00:47:56.677 --> 00:48:01.717
And then that allows reflection and that's when your learning can come in and you can guide them.
00:48:02.317 --> 00:48:04.927
So that would be my probably my key message with regard to that.
00:48:04.987 --> 00:48:18.306
we talked about shay given back at the beginning, and a little bit different really, because shay comparatively to some of the keepers that we've had mentioned in the interviews before is relatively modern in his keeping.
00:48:18.306 --> 00:48:22.567
But how do you think shay would've coped into today's game?
00:48:23.248 --> 00:48:25.338
Shay, I hope you're not watching this first and fore most.
00:48:27.398 --> 00:48:33.378
no, I think he's a, I think the first thing that's gonna spring everyone's mind is his physical profile.
00:48:33.887 --> 00:48:42.978
Because now you look at the goal keeping domains, and, I'll say this, we're standing in a tunnel on a, match day on Saturday, and, you're seeing the size of some of these guys, oh my God.
00:48:43.128 --> 00:48:45.858
Like I'm six foot 4 and they're absolute beasts.
00:48:46.088 --> 00:48:55.226
take Sanchez for example, at Chelsea physically to a point where it is like the peak of athleticism Yeah.
00:48:55.346 --> 00:48:56.516
Peak performance.
00:48:57.146 --> 00:49:01.106
But I think interestingly, there's so much more to the game than just that.
00:49:01.885 --> 00:49:02.096
Yeah.
00:49:02.096 --> 00:49:09.476
And I think what shay possessed was, his anticipation and his reflexes on his goal line.
00:49:09.775 --> 00:49:09.956
Yeah.
00:49:10.045 --> 00:49:27.925
And his probably his, technical outputs in game was so well executed that I feel now, not just in goal keeping, but in football in general, the game has gone so physical heavy that we've actually negated so much of the basics.
00:49:28.206 --> 00:49:34.735
Your save choices, your scoop, your volley, your collapse, save, your step and push.
00:49:35.815 --> 00:49:37.105
your crossing techniques.
00:49:37.704 --> 00:49:53.134
All these aspects now, even at senior level, I feel aren't mastered because cultures value either physical profiles or they value maybe the tactical aspects before you've even mastered your bread and butter, which is like your level 1 and level 2.
00:49:53.963 --> 00:50:04.793
So you take it in, you take it in kinda your strides in the sense of, when you're in the moment you're in the pressure, you'll always revert back to your technique.
00:50:05.393 --> 00:50:09.864
If your technique's poor, then, you're already off to negative start.
00:50:10.014 --> 00:50:24.563
If your technique's good, it will, it can get you out of, less than ideal situations because you'll always be dealt a raw hand in a sense of being caught outta a position or, I'm, in like a grey space, no man's land.
00:50:24.563 --> 00:50:28.193
but if your technique's good, yeah, it can get you out bother.
00:50:28.233 --> 00:50:33.262
So I think that's what Shay possessed, that kept him ahead of his time in that aspect.
00:50:33.802 --> 00:50:34.222
I love it.
00:50:34.791 --> 00:50:35.242
I love it.
00:50:35.251 --> 00:50:38.032
Jonny, it's been an absolute privilege to have you one.
00:50:38.036 --> 00:50:38.547
Thank you very much
00:50:39.197 --> 00:50:39.586
Thank you.
00:50:39.771 --> 00:50:40.552
Really appreciate it.
00:50:41.362 --> 00:50:44.692
And we'll see you for another episode shortly.
00:50:45.121 --> 00:50:45.402
Thanks.
00:50:46.141 --> 00:50:46.512
Bye.
