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Hello and welcome back for another episode of Catching Up with EVOGK.
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I'm Paul and today our special guest is none other than Dave Watson.
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Dave is a former Barnsley goalkeeper, made over 200 appearances for his hometown club.
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Played in the Premier League, represented England at youth level and had his own playing career, sadly cut short by injury.
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That experience has shaped the coach he became.
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Since moving into coaching, Dave has worked with English clubs including Oldham Athletic, Huddersfield Town, Northampton, Notts Forest, Birmingham City, Norwich City, Southampton as as well as the England U19s and the England senior team.
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And I've been reliably informed Dave has a good pair of binoculars.
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That is a long list, a long list that is a long list, and hopefully it was an enjoyable list, a very enjoyable time.
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Dave's also worked with some of the biggest English goalkeeper names in the modern era, including Joe Hart, Ben Foster, Jack Butland with his Birmingham work earning national attention before he joined Roy Hodgson's England setup.
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And what makes Dave such a valuable voice for young keepers is simple.
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He's played it, lost it and rebuilt himself through coaching and helped others reach the very top Dave, absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
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Welcome.
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A pleasure to be here.
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Looking forward to the next hour and maybe 3 hours of fun.
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And a fellow podcaster yourself as well, right?
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Oh yeah, I'm well into the podcasting game, so this is not new to me at all.
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So before we get into your journey, tell us who was your goal keeping idol growing up?
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Yeah, for me when I was growing up, it was really difficult to pick one because I always had Peter Shilton and I had Ray Clements, so I always torn between the two, especially when you talk about the national team and yeah, obviously ultimately you always have to pick one.
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So England really, in my early years and my recollection of England in tournaments always went for Peter Shilton.
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So he always got my edge, but when I used to watch much of the day, only chance he got to watch football on a Saturday evening, I had to choose between the two of them.
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But when it came to the national team, obviously I got more affinity than with Peter Shilton, for sure.
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Amazing.
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and yeah, Peter Shilton, I remember, waiting round in Peterlee Town Centre at one point for Peter to come and bring, a cup through and he never actually turned up, which was really annoying.
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But, yeah, very I would suggest.
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That's very frustrating.
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so you came through, Barnsley youth and went on to make over 200 appearances for your hometown club.
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Yeah.
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What's that mean to you as a player?
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I think when you talk to kids now, obviously, tomorrow I'll come and do a few sessions for the EvoGK team and kids ask you loads of questions about what, where ifs and why nots.
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But for me, I were very driven just to try and represent my hometown team.
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I think probably naively now, like appearance, money, cars, watches, it meant nothing to me.
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Yeah.
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I wanted to play for that team and I remember my, I made my debut at Derby County at the old baseball ground and we got beat 3 nil.
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But I remember going home that night and going back to my mum and dad's house, and it were like, every facet of your body just couldn't, you couldn't relax.
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You'd done something that really, as a kid at 13, 14, you thought were unimaginable.
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Yeah.
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And not achievable.
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but I obviously dedicated my young life at that point to try and be the best example as I could.
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but I were never in it for the outside rewards.
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Yeah.
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I wanted to play for the team and yeah, probably very naive, but it were a world in which your parents, set some boundaries.
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They were the driving force behind you.
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You didn't have football agents, so, there were no outside influence.
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My only drive were to play in that first team if it was achievable.
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Is an interesting question for you, and I'm keen to see how you answer it.
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Not trying to set outfield players against goalkeepers, but do you think goalkeepers have to work harder to make the breakthrough than outfield players?
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Yeah.
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I think it's a very unique position.
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I, as a younger player could play outfield and could play goalkeeper.
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I were very adaptable at both.
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Would I have been as successful as an outfield player?
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As a goalie?
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Probably not because I had a natural talent for sure.
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But I could play outfield to a very capable standard.
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And at the time I came through Barnsley's' Youth System, I didn't have a full-time goalie coach.
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I had a goalie coach once a week if I were lucky.
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So you became an outfield player?
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Yeah.
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So if you move forward to the modern game as a goalie now, I would've probably been a very good example of a modern day goalie,'cause I've always played high to defend the space and the line I were very capable of ball with a ball at my feet.
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But the rules were different then.
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so I think to playing goal, you have to have a numerous pass to your armoury.
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Yeah and obviously in the modern game you've gotta be able to play.
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You're a better dominate the area.
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You've gotta be quick, strong, brave, explosive, agile.
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I think as a footballer, if you fit and well and you can kick it with both feet and you're prepared to put your end in a little bit, you, can survive.
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A goalie, you need so many more tools to your arm with than that.
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Yeah.
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And hopefully we'll get into some of those in a little moment.
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Today's episode venue was kindly brought to you by the Hilton Garden Inn, just outside the stadium of light.
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They provide matchday Hospitality to Sunderland fans, and if you do want to drop by on a matchday for food and drinks before the game, please check out their social media profiles to find out which days they have available and get yourself booked in.
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They have some phenomenal prices in there, great packages, highly recommended.
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What, was, when you've made that step into the professional game, how did that differ from what you thought it would be?
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Was it, exactly like you'd imagined or was it completely different?
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I think because you spend 2 years as an apprentice or I were a YTS lad, you it's really tough.
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It's probably really brutal now.
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And obviously the academies are set up to look after kids and players and everything better, but it made you hardened and to want to be a footballer for sure.
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but you saw what being a footballer were all about you, you knew that if you were fortunate enough to make that grade and be offered a professional contract, there were nothing that you didn't see.
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So you knew, what were out there.
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But again, I was still driven by wanting to be like the goalies at that time at Barnsley were a guy called Clive Baker.
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And he really helped me in my young career.
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He went on, had a fantastic career at Ipswich and bits and pieces, but you really learn from them guys.
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A guy called Lee Butler who they signed from Aston Villa, unbelievable guy, friend to this day.
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And I remember my mum and dad seeing him in the Asda in Barnsley once and him telling me, mum and dad, don't worry.
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He's better than me.
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He'll be in the team.
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I think it were a different time.
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Things were different then.
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Yeah and I think people were different.
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and football's still an amazing thing, but it's come away from the modern man and the modern field is different now.
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And I just wanted to play football.
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now a lot of lads who are on this journey for sure, the dream is to represent whether it's the hometown team, the country or whatever.
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But I think the outside drivers are slightly different.
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Yeah.
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And for the younger audience that are watching the podcast, Barnsley at this point was where?
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It would've been the equivalent of a championship team now.
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Yeah.
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So I played all the majority of my football career.
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The majority of them 200 games would've been in the championship.
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I was fortunate enough to get the team promoted, so I had 1 year in the Premier League and then the season afterwards I only did 6 games and got injured and I never played again.
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So frustrating, in a fortunate way, if it's the only time I probably talk about money on this podcast, I'd just signed a new 3 year contract.
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So I had an opportunity to try and get fit and spent certainly the first 18 months trying to get fit.
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And then a guy and I know well and the EVOGK family know, Eric Steele, who was a coach of mine, said that he thought I should start looking into the coaching pathway.
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obviously took his advice on board, still obviously at that point thinking I could get fit.
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but obviously didn't quite make it.
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And actually it's ironic that Eric, I asked him to come and watch me play a reserve game at Mansfield Town when I'd been injured for 2 and a half years.
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And he came to watch that game and told me that I think time's time and very, obviously difficult for him to have that conversation with me, difficult for me to hear that conversation, but through that, he drove me into being hopefully the best coach that I could have made myself into.
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I think we all get given a path to walk, right?
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And it's not always what we think it'll be, but it's where, we always end up, where we're meant to be is how I always look at things.
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what was it like when you got that call to go and represent England at youth level then?
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Yeah.
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do you know where I'm, I actually came, I came up to Sunderland.
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I sat on the bench at Roker Park.
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I can't even remember who the game was, but a goalie had got injured and obviously I'd been doing well for Barnsley's youth team.
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And Mick Wadsworth were the Youth England youth team coach.
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And he obviously knew our youth team coach who'd been watching me from afar, because at that point, the England coaches used to come into all the clubs and take you for a day's training.
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So that's how they got to know players and staff.
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And so I'd had that connection with Mick anyway, and Barnsley had been 2 hours away from Sunderland.
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I got the call I think 36 hours before the game.
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So I, the, youth team coach brought me up the night 2 nights before the game.
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So I had the next day training, then the next day I sat on the bench for a, game at roker Park.
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It was quite surreal.
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And I kept my track suit, still got, my mum's, still got me tracksuit so I think that's a memory, but that ultimately where the start of the journey, yeah.
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I didn't feel out of place when I was on the training pitch or preparing for the game.
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as a young Lad been thrown into that environment, having never thought, or probably ever gonna make it as a professional footballer, nevermind to represent your country.
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I felt very uncomfortable at that point.
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But as soon as you put the boots and gloves on, it's a different world.
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But if you'd asked me to do a podcast 40 years ago, Yeah and sit in front of cameras or talk to people or even do the work tomorrow and do seminars and stand in front of thousands of people and talk, that's never naturally gonna be a skillset.
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But I think as you get older, you become a little bit less self-aware and obviously your experiences give you that confidence.
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But the first time I stepped into that environment up at Sunderland.
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Yeah.
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very uncomfortable.
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I think that's quite common for all young goalkeepers, right?
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there's a difference between wanting to make it and knowing that you've got the capability or believing in yourself, but when it actually push comes to shove that moment of tomorrow I'm playing first team, I'm gonna be playing in the big league here.
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I can imagine that being pretty much everyone, right?
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that's healthy.
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Yeah, it's healthy and that's what everybody wants.
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And I'm, sure you've, done loads of these things and you've spoke to various people at various levels.
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And I've worked as a player and as a coach with some phenomenal talent, But it's different to survive a working week knowing that you're gonna play in front of 20 million people on TV and a hundred thousand on a weekend or 70,000 at old Trafford or whatever it is.
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And ultimately the difference in the levels is not that much, but the difference in the levels between the ears and the mentality for somebody to survive in that environment.
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And when you make the big mistake that we all make and we're all gonna make and the longer you're playing goal, the more mistakes you'll make.
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It's that resilience to come back time and time again and stick the gloves back on and get your chest out and smell the grass and, go through the moments.
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And a lot of goalies I've worked with, when they've had some real difficult times, as we all do, I always try and take 'them back to that moment that they loved football more than anything in the world.
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The first time they put the gloves and the boots on and they're playing with their mates just out on the field with, whether it's a school match, whether it's a match on a Saturday morning.
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And I just try and get them to picture that moment and smell the grass at that moment because that's why we're here.
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And if you can take it back to that and realise that's what it's all about, you'll be better for it.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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I actually, that's goosebumps hearing you talk because like I see my young lad now and I talk about it on the podcast all the time and I look at, and I just think you don't even realise how lucky you are to have what you have and be as good as you are.
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I was, I had nothing when I was a kid.
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I got no opportunities and I had no talent to be fair.
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I didn't, it was never a sports type.
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how old were you when the injury happened?
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23.
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23.
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Yeah.
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And so do you think that.
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Early injury that having your career cut short at that point, 200 appearances at 23, there's nothing to be sniffed at for a first team keeper.
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do you, does that frustrate you when you see young keepers or other keepers who just how have the talent but they're just not yeah.
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applying it, it created who and what I was as a person and ultimately as a coach for sure.
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let's not kid ourselves.
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The first year or 18 months of that journey were very, difficult.
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And, any green shoots evaporated quickly over a period of time.
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but it's what, tough makes you stronger and through difficult times, the shoots began to get bigger and greener.
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And ultimately, I suppose here I am, but, what it did do for me is it formed, an application in my coaching that I would never accept of anybody who I would doing a session with.
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I'm talking professionally, obviously, when you do camps and there's loads of kids at various levels Yeah.
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That's a different thing.
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I'm talking professionally here.
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I set the bar very high.
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And if the standards of anybody coming into my sessions didn't meet those standards, then that would've been dealt with quite severely because I had my opportunity taken away and they had opportunities in front of them that they weren't grasping with two hands.
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Yeah.
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And I found that very difficult to accept.
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Obviously, as I matured and got older, I softened and mellowed and realised there's different ways and I got better because I were a better human being and I could talk to people and look the way the modern world went.
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We were debriefing, we were pre briefing and you spend so much more time together as well as on the grass and on a match day.
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Yeah.
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But my, early experiences of coaching and when people weren't prepared to give me a 100%, and ultimately the game that we all love 100%, I found that very difficult.
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What did, what was Eric's Eric Steele influence on that coaching, do you think?
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Eric's influence on my life has been profound, is the Godfather to my son.
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Him and his wife, got basically me and my now wife together.
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it's been a unique and remarkable thing.
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I cried profoundly when he left Barnsley as coach, which was only a day a week, and he left Barnsley to go full-time to Darby.
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I found that really difficult.
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I'd not only got a great goalie coach, but a friend And somebody I trusted who could develop me on and off the field.
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and I found it really difficult to replace him and I never really replaced him, even though i were number one goalie and I'd got the choice of goalie coaches and there were probably 6 or 7 came through the door, who I said weren't up to standard, but they were probably never ever gonna be up to Eric's standard.
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So walking in a tough mantra to follow, but yeah.
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yeah, I think for Eric, certainly when I finished his drive to know that I'd still got some burning desire inside me to do something in football, even though my football career had been taken away, his influence and support has been invaluable to this day.
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And then you work through a variety of clubs and I know the way football works, it's not always by choice, sometimes it's by circumstances.
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Yeah.
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but it sounds like that was something you enjoyed.
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Yeah.
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Experience.
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Look, the coaching pathway is difficult, isn't it?
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when you come out of playing, you can't think you're gonna be the best coach.
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if I could rewind and if we would've had this technology and I could, somebody could have filmed my first ever goalie session at Northampton Town and then you film my last session, even tomorrow's session, it would be polar, like worlds apart.
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and ultimately our very fortunate that I had some good goalies along the way who supported me in the early parts of my journey.
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Because if they wouldn't have supported me to the managers, the coaches, the other players, it would've been difficult.
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I started doing oldham and part-time, Northampton part-time and you're up and down the road, you're driving, you're committed, you're doing the full package on a day, you're doing the senior players morning, afternoon, you're doing the centre of excellence as it was at the time at night.
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You're working hard for your few quid, that's for sure.
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And you're travelling up and down, but it's the hard yards that give you then the opportunity.
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I remember watering the grass with the hose pipe and doing all these things at various clubs, just trying to give the goalies a chance to have a decent session.
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And then obviously as you, as your career develops, and you're fortunate enough to get to better facilities, you've got groundsmen pandering to your every whimper, the water's where you want it, the grass is immaculate.
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You could eat your breakfast on it.
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You know what I mean?
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There's no blade of grass outta turn, but you've gotta do the hard yards to get to those points and then appreciate it.
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so yeah, the journey's difficult and I think that's why there's not as many ex goalies make top coaches because it's a very difficult and hard journey.
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You don't just go from being an international goalie for England with a 100 caps, for instance and walk straight into a great coaching job.
00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:46.670
Yeah.
00:19:46.670 --> 00:19:48.140
Because it just cannot happen.
00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:49.220
It's a different skillset.
00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:50.809
Totally different skillset.
00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:59.089
So then, you've mentioned earlier, you, were lucky enough to work at Birmingham with the likes of Joe Hart, Ben Foster, Jack Butland.
00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:06.619
What do you think that level, what's the attribute that keepers at that level have in common that helps them stand apart?
00:20:06.950 --> 00:20:11.210
it's obviously all of them have a natural ability for sure.
00:20:11.299 --> 00:20:19.799
Look, you, coaching is a unique thing and coaching you try and develop these guys, but there's a natural talent there for sure.
00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:23.720
It doesn't just come off a conveyor belt, goalkeeping talent.
00:20:23.779 --> 00:20:30.079
So there's a natural talent obviously, hand eye coordination, spring speed, athleticism, all these things.
00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:39.769
But the one driver that always dominates and is a standout skillset is the mentality to perform.
00:20:40.174 --> 00:20:46.730
And the actual desire, especially to perform on a match day when it's all out, Yeah.
00:20:46.849 --> 00:20:48.230
You can train well all week.
00:20:48.769 --> 00:20:52.099
I could probably put my boots and gloves on tonight and do Okay.
00:20:52.099 --> 00:20:53.269
If you took some shots at me.
00:20:53.269 --> 00:20:53.329
Yeah.
00:20:54.049 --> 00:21:03.319
But the desire to do it day in, day out and go and represent your team to the best level in unbelievably difficult circumstances.
00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:13.250
And then if the very best of them are fortunate enough to be able to stand on that international stage for everybody on the planet to shoot at you, that's the standout key.
00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:13.430
Yeah.
00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:25.369
If I go to Sunderland tomorrow and I take all 20 Premier League goalies and the stadium's full and it's my session and they're just in training mindset, the difference would be nothing.
00:21:25.670 --> 00:21:25.880
Yeah.
00:21:25.910 --> 00:21:26.900
From top to bottom.
00:21:27.470 --> 00:21:33.859
But you see 'em then turn up match day and the mentality and the drive and the desire, the talent and ability's still there.
00:21:34.099 --> 00:21:46.194
But the ones who get to the very, very, top, they're different animals match day Whether it's in your car or on the team bus, or like most teams, you're flying on the day of the game or flying the night before the game.
00:21:46.644 --> 00:21:48.505
You cannot wait for touchdown.
00:21:48.744 --> 00:21:51.414
You cannot wait for takeoff, like a night game.
00:21:51.414 --> 00:21:56.275
It's the longest wait for you to get your chance to get on that dance floor and perform.
00:21:56.305 --> 00:22:02.724
It's like being that gladiator in that colosseum and Yeah, the very best, they absolutely love it.
00:22:02.904 --> 00:22:12.825
There's no fear and it's trying to take that mentality of that 8-year-old kid, 7-year-old kid, boots, gloves, smelling the grass into that colosseum.
00:22:13.134 --> 00:22:20.125
And if you can do that and take the outside noise away, you'll have an unbelievable career.
00:22:20.184 --> 00:22:23.154
And football is an amazing thing.
00:22:23.545 --> 00:22:26.964
Can give you so many joys and pleasures just on the grass.
00:22:26.964 --> 00:22:29.095
I'm not talking about the rewards outside of it.
00:22:29.095 --> 00:22:32.335
Yeah, no, because that shouldn't come into play for anybody really.
00:22:32.335 --> 00:22:32.394
Yeah.
00:22:33.474 --> 00:22:34.525
It's a, yeah.
00:22:34.914 --> 00:22:41.305
Secondary benefit, Joe Hart, then the name that, that most of the kids these days, I recognise the easiest.
00:22:41.545 --> 00:22:44.515
Joe Hart come to play football at Birmingham.
00:22:45.775 --> 00:22:47.785
and he come out of his comfort zone quite a bit there, right?
00:22:48.085 --> 00:22:48.325
Yeah.
00:22:49.295 --> 00:22:52.224
I think at that point it was the right time for him.
00:22:52.224 --> 00:22:55.255
I'd worked with him in the England youth teams, so I knew him.
00:22:55.404 --> 00:22:58.224
It wasn't like a virginal appearance.
00:22:58.224 --> 00:23:00.204
And it would take your chances with him.
00:23:00.355 --> 00:23:01.464
I'd got to know him.
00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:09.535
I knew the ability he'd got, I knew Man City weren't gonna put him in their team, but I knew we needed to upgrade at Birmingham if we were gonna stay in the Premier League.
00:23:10.855 --> 00:23:23.694
and obviously it would a big shock because not many young goalies get the opportunity to perform in the Premier League and the demands of what Birmingham were gonna be, it were gonna be required to make some big interventions for us to stay in the league.
00:23:24.865 --> 00:23:25.029
yeah.
00:23:25.134 --> 00:23:36.144
And I would say, and if you had him here with me today, yeah, of course Undoubted talent knew he'd got the talent and he could perform, but the first 6 to 8 games was still tough.
00:23:36.984 --> 00:23:38.214
The team finding its feet.
00:23:38.244 --> 00:23:42.045
He's finding his feet, and you live on moments.
00:23:42.045 --> 00:23:51.144
And his big moment we were going to anfield, I think it was a Friday night live game and we got a 2-2 draw and he were phenomenal in the game.
00:23:51.144 --> 00:23:55.075
Not only making saves, but dominating his box, taking crosses.
00:23:55.884 --> 00:23:59.875
And I remember him late on in the game catching one and kissing the ball.
00:24:00.234 --> 00:24:02.335
And I think that was the moment for me.
00:24:03.785 --> 00:24:04.255
I thought he's got it.
00:24:04.345 --> 00:24:04.765
He's got it.
00:24:05.275 --> 00:24:05.515
Yeah.
00:24:05.815 --> 00:24:13.404
He settled and from that moment on, really, he rode the crest of a wave for a very long time.
00:24:13.555 --> 00:24:21.865
And it's interesting, actually, I'm going off syn here, but Guardiola, when he is just left, man City said his only regret is that he never gave him a chance.
00:24:22.795 --> 00:24:24.134
cause he would've phenomenal goalie too.
00:24:24.134 --> 00:24:24.305
Yeah.
00:24:25.434 --> 00:24:26.424
Proper, phenomenal.
00:24:26.575 --> 00:24:29.394
And he would better with a ball at his feet than anybody give him credit for.
00:24:29.575 --> 00:24:34.553
And I think City making that decision to take Bravo in, were the wrong decision.
00:24:34.702 --> 00:24:38.423
And I think Joe Hart could have probably gone on and had another 50 caps for England.
00:24:38.482 --> 00:24:38.663
Yeah.
00:24:38.752 --> 00:24:40.823
If Guardiola wouldn't have made that decision.
00:24:41.423 --> 00:24:43.343
And I love Jordan Pickford.
00:24:43.343 --> 00:24:44.813
I think he's a phenomenal goalie.
00:24:44.873 --> 00:24:48.113
Never let England down and I hope that he doesn't this summer.
00:24:48.772 --> 00:24:51.653
But he didn't have the ability that Joe hart had.
00:24:52.103 --> 00:25:01.133
But Joe hart came across a time and certainly like me having to finish through injury, you get a manager like Guardiola doesn't give you an opportunity.
00:25:01.133 --> 00:25:03.682
It's very difficult to bounce back from, get pushed out.
00:25:03.682 --> 00:25:06.292
And it's almost a downward slope from there, whether you like it or not.
00:25:06.292 --> 00:25:15.712
Through no fault of your own even just difference of he the top of his tree and Guardiola, I think it were more to do with the leadership and the culture in the dressing room potentially than ability.
00:25:15.863 --> 00:25:15.982
Yeah.
00:25:16.012 --> 00:25:17.123
But he made a big call.
00:25:17.123 --> 00:25:25.792
But it's interesting to see after 10 years of unbridled success is one regret is that he never gave him a chance because they didn't solve the Goalkeeping problem.
00:25:25.792 --> 00:25:26.782
No, very quickly.
00:25:27.083 --> 00:25:36.682
It took a period of time and certainly Bravo for two years didn't warrant being better or in the team in front of Joe, but time had gone, Yeah.
00:25:37.032 --> 00:25:41.847
And so then moving on to Ben Foster, An interesting conversation that we don't often have.
00:25:41.847 --> 00:25:53.337
We talk lots about practice and skill and training and different tactics and things, but Ben also had to manage his body carefully in terms of protecting from injuries, things like that.
00:25:53.367 --> 00:25:53.428
Yeah.
00:25:53.762 --> 00:25:58.077
Probably my first time really as a coach where I couldn't drive the culture as I wanted.
00:25:59.219 --> 00:26:07.288
Because I want a, kind of relentless coach in terms of looking for the minute detail that the 1 percenters that could make a big difference on a match day.
00:26:07.887 --> 00:26:19.962
But Ben, having had two acls obviously had to be managed differently, so my whole thought process changed and I probably became a better coach through that period because you learn different ways.
00:26:20.127 --> 00:26:20.367
Yeah.
00:26:21.478 --> 00:26:24.268
I knew through my injury that I didn't want goalies running.
00:26:24.268 --> 00:26:29.758
I didn't want certain types of work that were gonna put real impact onto joints and things like that.
00:26:29.758 --> 00:26:33.928
You imagine the amount of times you are up, down diving throughout a season, it's phenomenal.
00:26:34.137 --> 00:26:36.387
So pre-season, were always tailored around that.
00:26:36.387 --> 00:26:48.718
But certainly Ben's specific individual needs led me to become a different coach because I had to think differently about him and ultimately the longevity of goalies in the game.
00:26:49.887 --> 00:26:56.998
And is there any advice that you can take out that and apply it to the youth game today in terms of young keepers looking after themselves outside of the match?
00:26:57.028 --> 00:27:03.958
'cause I see a lot of kids training 5, 6, 7 days a week doing double sessions, playing football at school, football outside of school, different sports.
00:27:04.288 --> 00:27:05.218
My lad's no different.
00:27:05.968 --> 00:27:07.167
How do they look after themselves?
00:27:07.198 --> 00:27:13.827
Yeah, it's very difficult because at that age you've got energy to burn and you don't realise that there's gonna be a detrimental effect further down the line.
00:27:14.067 --> 00:27:16.137
And to some, there'll not be a detrimental effect.
00:27:16.347 --> 00:27:20.698
everybody's different and everybody's, bone structures and skeletons are different.
00:27:20.698 --> 00:27:27.538
But ultimately today, the three and 4G pictures give you an unbelievable environment.
00:27:27.597 --> 00:27:34.198
So you're not gonna get a bobble when you wanna low dive or if you're doing a passing exercise, you're not worried about getting the ball.
00:27:34.198 --> 00:27:35.847
And it, it's perfect.
00:27:36.357 --> 00:27:39.178
I have a fear, obviously for injuries on that.
00:27:39.867 --> 00:27:42.357
And, obviously the, hard contacts.
00:27:42.958 --> 00:27:46.978
Ultimately, that'll have to come in time, whether it has been detrimental.
00:27:47.188 --> 00:27:52.325
But training over training when you are young cannot be positive.
00:27:52.505 --> 00:27:53.164
Long term.
00:27:53.164 --> 00:27:54.065
It cannot be.
00:27:54.394 --> 00:27:59.825
But managing that with the excitement and the drive of youth is very difficult.
00:28:00.095 --> 00:28:01.654
And dads never get it right.
00:28:01.865 --> 00:28:10.125
If I tell my son tonight not to do X, Y, or Z, you can guarantee he will do X, Y, or Z. So I'm glad I've left him with his mum tonight.
00:28:11.134 --> 00:28:23.494
But the, reality is that sometimes less is more for sure, especially when you get into proper training environments and cultures, then the programmes have to be tailored properly.
00:28:23.871 --> 00:28:24.500
And.
00:28:24.983 --> 00:28:29.354
Taking that one step further, you then stepped into the England senior setup with Roy Hodgson.
00:28:29.503 --> 00:28:29.653
Yeah.
00:28:30.794 --> 00:28:32.354
what was that first England camp like?
00:28:32.653 --> 00:28:33.013
Mate?
00:28:33.134 --> 00:28:40.723
Honestly, the most surreal time of my life, I'll never forget it, because it was just a really strange week.
00:28:40.753 --> 00:28:44.653
We'd lost with Birmingham in the playoffs, semifinal to Blackpool.
00:28:45.253 --> 00:28:49.574
We'd been in the championship all season, I think we'd played 64 games.
00:28:50.023 --> 00:28:52.753
'cause we'd done unbelievable in the FA cup.
00:28:53.114 --> 00:28:57.134
We'd been in the Europa League in the championship, we'd had all the championship games.
00:28:57.134 --> 00:29:02.473
We'd finally got beat in the semi-final off Blackpool on the Wednesday night.
00:29:03.134 --> 00:29:07.013
I'm sat, me son, were probably not a year old.
00:29:07.344 --> 00:29:12.294
And we sat in the lounge at home and we watched Man City score against QPR.
00:29:12.713 --> 00:29:16.074
And we both, me and my wife, and me wife screamed the babies woke up.
00:29:16.074 --> 00:29:16.919
We were like, ah, whatever.
00:29:17.513 --> 00:29:20.273
And I think that game must have been a Sunday.
00:29:20.364 --> 00:29:27.804
And on the Monday I got a phone call to go and potentially be the England goalie coach at the tournament in Poland and Ukraine.
00:29:29.064 --> 00:29:37.128
Roy phoned me and said, there's you and another guy who I need to, I've got to do me due diligence on, would you be interested in coming?
00:29:37.314 --> 00:29:41.423
And obviously I'm, coming already cancelled everything else.
00:29:41.693 --> 00:29:46.794
And, he got back to me in a couple of days and I've learned since obviously Ben Foster spoke highly with me.
00:29:46.794 --> 00:29:49.703
Joe Hart spoke highly with me, all the people in the game.
00:29:50.094 --> 00:29:53.094
I still to this day don't know who the other candidate was.
00:29:53.963 --> 00:29:54.983
that's football, isn't it?
00:29:54.983 --> 00:29:57.084
You can be so close, but yet so far away.
00:29:57.630 --> 00:29:58.223
But yeah.
00:29:58.763 --> 00:30:01.284
a surreal experience at the end of that season.
00:30:01.284 --> 00:30:09.953
But when I first turned up to work for England and you saw the faces of the players and the quality and Yeah.
00:30:12.413 --> 00:30:14.784
a very humbling experience for sure.
00:30:15.054 --> 00:30:23.844
And yeah, I'd coached at that point what would've been, yeah, 2014.
00:30:23.844 --> 00:30:25.973
So yeah, it's 12 years ago, isn't it?
00:30:25.973 --> 00:30:28.794
So I'd have been, late 30's.
00:30:30.653 --> 00:30:37.943
but yeah, I'd coached 1000's and 1000's of hours, but that were a nervous session the first time I've put that England kit on for sure.
00:30:38.903 --> 00:30:47.183
And do you still find the same challenges at that level that you have at club level, even, like Yeah, for sure.
00:30:47.213 --> 00:30:51.144
If anything, it's probably more difficult and, the demands are more difficult.
00:30:51.834 --> 00:31:11.604
I'm not here to talk about Spygate, what's just obviously happened, but when you are an international team, the manager has to pick the team a lot earlier because when you travel away from home and you want to do a session in their stadium the day before the match, you've got to pick your team a day prior to that because you've gotta do your work privately at St.
00:31:11.604 --> 00:31:13.193
George's Park at that time.
00:31:13.463 --> 00:31:18.894
And I remember taking the set plays and sometimes we went inside to do set plays, even though St.
00:31:18.894 --> 00:31:21.713
George's Park were our home.
00:31:22.049 --> 00:31:24.240
And you couldn't imagine somebody seeing it.
00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:24.630
Yeah.
00:31:24.930 --> 00:31:27.599
But you're that wary of things like that.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:36.420
So we did the set plays inside it quite a few times, but obviously you had to be more set up and ready because you had to pick your team 48 hours earlier.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:41.880
So when we went to train on a stadium, it would just nothing'cause you were giving nothing away.
00:31:42.329 --> 00:31:44.460
So you had to be a bit better prepared for sure.
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:50.430
And what's it like being on the bench behind the team on international game day?
00:31:50.490 --> 00:31:51.960
Like it must be Oh, phenomenal.
00:31:52.259 --> 00:31:55.140
I remember that first game, my first ever game as a coach.
00:31:55.140 --> 00:32:05.640
with noway away pre tournament and I remember stood you can imagine the noise around cameras going off, tv things everywhere.
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:12.009
But just standing up to sing that anthem, I remembered it as a player fortunately, in the youth teams and the under 21's.
00:32:12.750 --> 00:32:17.819
but to sing that anthem as a member of staff, yeah, were pretty, pretty humbling experience for me.
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:18.420
For sure.
00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:43.981
And when you just bring it down to the human level, you think about people who have helped you on your journey when you're singing that song, you think, I thought about my dad who passed away a long time before and I think it's things like that hit home to you and it's the emotional side of things when the anthem plays, that's quite hard to come through, to be honest with you'cause you're probably not actually at that moment thinking about football.
00:32:44.342 --> 00:32:44.491
Yeah.
00:32:45.122 --> 00:32:52.321
But then it stops and then it's back to business and it's, you just got to be switched on and off like that, It's that reset, isn't it?
00:32:52.382 --> 00:32:52.771
Yeah.
00:32:52.771 --> 00:33:00.001
And it's just like being a goalie, when you have a good or bad moment, it's gone and you have to have the next moment.
00:33:00.211 --> 00:33:03.182
And that's the, amazing thing about playing goal.
00:33:03.582 --> 00:33:05.491
You have an amazing moment you make a say.
00:33:05.852 --> 00:33:09.001
If you're not back in the game, the next action's a mistake.
00:33:09.451 --> 00:33:11.717
And on the opposite of that, you make a mistake.
00:33:11.717 --> 00:33:14.582
But if you next actions are positive, you're back in the game.
00:33:14.882 --> 00:33:15.061
Yeah.
00:33:15.122 --> 00:33:19.741
So you can't start sinking, but you can't start getting too high either the best one.
00:33:19.741 --> 00:33:23.162
It's just that neutral level of consistency.
00:33:23.461 --> 00:33:30.152
While we're there then, have you got any tricks or tips that you'd Yeah, look, I used to do a lot with goalies for sure.
00:33:30.211 --> 00:33:39.541
Obviously this is, if you're playing at a level and you've got clocks and screens and things, I always used to say to 'em, look, you, decide the time intervals.
00:33:39.811 --> 00:33:47.071
But I used to put it in 15 minute blocks and just to strap, your gloves every 15 minutes roughly.
00:33:47.582 --> 00:33:51.842
And imagine we're starting again so you don't drift in that 45 minutes.
00:33:52.082 --> 00:33:56.971
now with the extra time you get, it could be 55 minutes, so you might be re strap, you might need some new gloves.
00:33:56.971 --> 00:34:00.872
But I tried to have that methodology so that you didn't drift.
00:34:02.282 --> 00:34:04.442
When you looked at that, I wouldn't shout on or anything.
00:34:04.682 --> 00:34:09.601
They had to be aware of it, but they knew then at a point it had to be a reset, right we're off again.
00:34:09.661 --> 00:34:11.702
So you just never got caught drifting.
00:34:11.882 --> 00:34:12.061
Yeah.
00:34:12.452 --> 00:34:17.132
that was one mechanism I used to try and get the lads to make sure they didn't switch off, for sure.
00:34:17.612 --> 00:34:18.121
Love that.
00:34:18.871 --> 00:34:26.228
And so obviously modern game has changed considerably even in the last 10 years, from 20, 30 years ago.
00:34:26.588 --> 00:34:30.757
Do you think modern goalkeepers need to understand the whole team's strategy more now than ever?
00:34:31.057 --> 00:34:34.777
Yeah, I think the education now is phenomenal in academies.
00:34:34.777 --> 00:34:46.777
Look, every nuance of a position for your team, whether you're playing with a back 4, back 5, if you're playing with 1 6, 2 6's, 2 8's, 2 10's.
00:34:46.838 --> 00:34:50.708
I think the education that the lads get is phenomenal.
00:34:51.097 --> 00:34:58.838
But ultimately when you're playing goal, if you've got 1 6 or 2 8's, you've still gotta get your team set up so that you can find the patterns.
00:34:59.108 --> 00:35:02.677
You've not only gotta be able to see the patterns, you've gotta be able to execute the patterns.
00:35:03.007 --> 00:35:11.137
And when you know that your team play a certain way, you've gotta think the opposition are gonna set you up for that pass, but really want to jump on this pass.
00:35:11.438 --> 00:35:13.507
So it's not that easy.
00:35:13.717 --> 00:35:18.668
But the education that the guys get in terms of football is second to none.
00:35:19.018 --> 00:35:19.804
Second to none.
00:35:19.804 --> 00:35:26.945
What do you think that maybe young keepers get right to do that the previous goalkeeper generations were weaker with or didn't get?
00:35:27.244 --> 00:35:38.250
I think now if, I would've been a goalie in the system now and you are at the right club with the right coaches, I think the whole package that you get to be successful is you.
00:35:38.255 --> 00:35:42.094
You can, if you fail, 'cause you're not good enough.
00:35:42.364 --> 00:35:45.514
But I don't talk, normally in that language.
00:35:45.605 --> 00:35:49.565
I always say you'll find your level because your level's, your level.
00:35:49.775 --> 00:36:00.170
But the tools that you're given, if you get to a category one academy, so nutrition, sports science, psychology, education, football, education, coaching.
00:36:01.038 --> 00:36:05.628
You, can't finish that programme and say that you've not been given an opportunity.
00:36:05.927 --> 00:36:06.168
Yeah.
00:36:06.467 --> 00:36:11.748
And that's why I said that you don't necessarily fail, but that level may be too much for you.
00:36:11.807 --> 00:36:16.188
So you naturally will fall down, but you will find your level.
00:36:16.668 --> 00:36:25.007
And when you find your level and you get used to playing and getting your foot on the grass again, you can obviously climb the ladder again.
00:36:25.007 --> 00:36:25.038
Climb that again.
00:36:25.338 --> 00:36:28.398
How, bravery is such a big thing that we talk about.
00:36:29.027 --> 00:36:38.628
And at certain level at grassroots, it's quite hard to talk about bravery because you can tell a kid to be brave all they want, but unless, they're ready to be brave or they've got it in them to be brave.
00:36:39.228 --> 00:36:40.128
That's hard.
00:36:40.637 --> 00:36:44.597
Is there a way to coach bravery without No, I'll be very brutal on this.
00:36:44.597 --> 00:36:46.007
There, there probably isn't.
00:36:46.007 --> 00:36:53.237
You can obviously put 1,001 drills on and for anybody who's gonna watch this camera, I'll show you a prime example of it.
00:36:53.717 --> 00:37:00.467
The young goal, who does what I'm gonna show in a second, or the goal who's 36 and does it or 26 and does it.
00:37:00.648 --> 00:37:04.217
So if I'm coming for a spread or a block and I do that Yeah.
00:37:04.277 --> 00:37:09.268
Whether I'm 8 18, 28, 38, I'm never getting that out of that kid.
00:37:09.568 --> 00:37:09.717
Yeah.
00:37:10.018 --> 00:37:10.197
Yeah.
00:37:10.197 --> 00:37:16.557
You can go into softball practice and repetition of softball practice so it doesn't hurt.
00:37:16.557 --> 00:37:21.478
And you sometimes can use the big yoga balls and all, there's so many tools.
00:37:21.478 --> 00:37:22.978
Stand behind the fence or Yeah.
00:37:23.007 --> 00:37:23.697
Whatever.
00:37:24.478 --> 00:37:26.188
But you cannot imprint that.
00:37:26.458 --> 00:37:40.094
And the best goalie who confronts that 1v1 situation or that 1v1 standing situation and boom, and that head stays like that fixed and you produce a biggie shape, you can, but stay there.
00:37:40.545 --> 00:37:42.644
I don't think that's something the coach can coach.
00:37:42.735 --> 00:37:42.945
Yeah.
00:37:43.485 --> 00:37:44.744
That's my honest belief in that.
00:37:45.315 --> 00:37:52.121
And there's a million practices you can try, but the guy who wants to go, or the guy who wants to go, that's in you.
00:37:52.871 --> 00:37:53.052
Yeah.
00:37:53.081 --> 00:37:56.561
But the goalie who turns his head is not gonna get very far.
00:37:57.188 --> 00:38:00.998
it's interesting Now, I think aggression comes with age, right?
00:38:00.998 --> 00:38:01.007
Yes.
00:38:01.177 --> 00:38:10.027
attacking the ball, attacking the players being, but the bravery one's an interesting one and it, I like, I don't think it's a, reflection on them as a person.
00:38:10.333 --> 00:38:11.288
it doesn't mean they're not brave.
00:38:11.347 --> 00:38:11.918
No.
00:38:12.007 --> 00:38:14.019
But it's a, it's something psych, it's primary.
00:38:14.409 --> 00:38:14.860
It's psych.
00:38:14.875 --> 00:38:15.625
Yeah, for sure.
00:38:15.625 --> 00:38:15.804
Yeah.
00:38:16.014 --> 00:38:17.454
And not everybody can do it.
00:38:17.485 --> 00:38:17.664
Yeah.
00:38:17.784 --> 00:38:20.394
And that's not to say that you're not gonna get to a good level.
00:38:20.425 --> 00:38:20.635
Yeah.
00:38:21.505 --> 00:38:24.054
But very, best at the very top.
00:38:25.255 --> 00:38:25.795
Thrive on it.
00:38:25.795 --> 00:38:25.945
Thrive.
00:38:26.394 --> 00:38:26.755
Yeah.
00:38:27.505 --> 00:38:27.655
Yeah.
00:38:28.494 --> 00:38:31.554
So coming down to the last few questions now, Dave.
00:38:31.617 --> 00:38:40.706
What should, what do you think parents need to understand about the goalkeeper journey for a young grassroots kid and their kid's got talent or they think they've got talent and they're ready to support them.
00:38:40.766 --> 00:38:50.456
What's you have to support and nurture that talent, again, like we said, you could send little Joe out and he might want to be out there 7 days a week, 2 sessions.
00:38:50.487 --> 00:38:52.226
That's not necessarily right either.
00:38:52.226 --> 00:39:01.297
I think, I am a parent myself, but, the family structure's different for me.
00:39:01.297 --> 00:39:04.407
They love football, but they're never gonna be footballers.
00:39:06.027 --> 00:39:07.077
it's slightly different.
00:39:07.137 --> 00:39:14.157
What I don't like seeing is parents at the back of the goal screaming, shouting, dictating what happens.
00:39:14.277 --> 00:39:20.097
' cause the goalie's got to have his natural talent and he's gotta play the game or she's got to play the game.
00:39:20.456 --> 00:39:24.117
And ultimately when they find their level, they're gonna play the game.
00:39:24.117 --> 00:39:25.286
You can't play it for him.
00:39:25.617 --> 00:39:29.637
I think the best thing you can be is supportive and nurture that talent.
00:39:29.967 --> 00:39:34.677
And ultimately at points you have to be honest and open about what's happened and what's not happened.
00:39:35.362 --> 00:39:41.666
But ultimately the arm around the shoulder is always better than the digging the ribs.
00:39:42.086 --> 00:39:42.536
For sure.
00:39:43.197 --> 00:39:43.467
Yeah.
00:39:44.606 --> 00:39:46.317
Don't, spoil the fun of the game for Yeah.
00:39:46.556 --> 00:39:48.387
Look, football, we should all love it.
00:39:48.447 --> 00:40:01.016
And if you can go and be like emi Martinez and playing the last World Cup final and produce a save like that and have the enjoyment on his face, you imagine what he were like when he were 8 and they were doing exactly the same.
00:40:01.317 --> 00:40:02.697
It shouldn't change.
00:40:02.757 --> 00:40:10.827
Even though the enormity of the task is what it is, you are still on that field for that first time smelling the grass.
00:40:11.186 --> 00:40:14.996
And if you can take that through with you, I think it'll serve you in good stead.
00:40:15.297 --> 00:40:23.067
I must admit that the image of emi climbing the goal mouth onto the top, unsuccessfully climbing his boots into the net and trying to climb.
00:40:23.306 --> 00:40:31.407
Do you know what, a what an unbridled, just natural Emi moment like that epitomises why he does what he does.
00:40:31.407 --> 00:40:34.197
Yeah, because the joy was just, you can't take that and that's why you do it.
00:40:34.197 --> 00:40:35.516
That's hours and hours.
00:40:35.817 --> 00:40:38.126
And when you talked about what, do you do?
00:40:38.367 --> 00:40:41.967
That's Pilates, that's yoga, that's stretching, that's flexibility.
00:40:42.237 --> 00:40:43.436
None of them things we see.
00:40:43.646 --> 00:40:45.567
Yeah, that's off the field work.
00:40:45.567 --> 00:40:50.157
Like most of this stuff is to be the best example you can be.
00:40:50.438 --> 00:40:58.148
For a young keeper who's not currently in an academy, what advice would you give them about staying in the game and keeping that door open?
00:40:58.507 --> 00:41:01.088
Look, listen, you have to keep that door open.
00:41:01.148 --> 00:41:13.807
And if you are in a games programme, somebody will eventually see you and word spreads pretty quickly when there's any talent, whether you're right back, left back, central half or your goalie word spreads in any community.
00:41:15.277 --> 00:41:30.157
and you can't lose your self-belief'cause I am a firm believer that you will find your level and there is always a pivotal moment in any footballer's career where you ask them if there were sat here at any of them, where there's a moment something happens for him.
00:41:31.297 --> 00:41:33.248
So you've always gotta be ready for that moment.
00:41:33.728 --> 00:41:36.637
And if you are ready for that moment, you'll give yourself the best chance.
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.869
And lastly, bringing it back to your idols.
00:41:39.869 --> 00:41:45.989
So Ray Clements, Peter Shilton, if we were to pick them up and drop 'em in today's modern game, how do you think they'd cope?
00:41:46.297 --> 00:41:50.047
I think Peter, physically in the Premier League would find it pretty tough.
00:41:50.567 --> 00:41:53.677
Ray had got a bigger stature for sure.
00:41:55.927 --> 00:41:58.896
but ultimately they never played with the ball at the feet, did they?
00:41:58.927 --> 00:42:02.916
So it would be very, hard to judge on them.
00:42:03.367 --> 00:42:07.099
But in their generation, these two guys were phenomenal.
00:42:07.746 --> 00:42:11.047
And ultimately sport changes and it moves on.
00:42:11.586 --> 00:42:13.867
So it's hard to bring'em into our bubble.
00:42:14.137 --> 00:42:18.726
They were at the top of their tree in their prime, in their generation.
00:42:19.146 --> 00:42:21.186
And would they be able to keep goal today?
00:42:21.726 --> 00:42:22.746
Of course, yes.
00:42:23.166 --> 00:42:24.606
But it'd be very, difficult for 'em.
00:42:26.496 --> 00:42:27.697
Be interesting, I'd love to see it.
00:42:27.996 --> 00:42:28.266
Yeah.
00:42:29.257 --> 00:42:30.666
We need a time machine or something.
00:42:30.666 --> 00:42:31.867
Yeah, I'd love to see that.
00:42:33.157 --> 00:42:34.447
that's the end of the questions for today.
00:42:34.567 --> 00:42:38.317
Dave, I really appreciate you taking the time to come down and have a chat with us.
00:42:38.376 --> 00:42:38.677
No, really.
00:42:38.677 --> 00:42:39.157
Thank you very much.
00:42:39.157 --> 00:42:39.876
Really enjoyed it.
00:42:39.876 --> 00:42:40.987
Thank you so much.
00:42:41.317 --> 00:42:41.677
Brilliant.
00:42:42.097 --> 00:42:43.717
And I'll see you again for the next episode.
00:42:43.717 --> 00:42:44.347
Take care.
00:42:44.407 --> 00:42:44.766
Bye-Bye.
00:42:44.916 --> 00:43:05.226
So welcome back for the EVOGK community questions where we do a bonus session with each guest for the podcast and we dive a little bit deeper into, things that directly impact on the EVOGK goalkeepers, Dave, if a young keeper wants to stand out at one of the Evo camps that you are running, what would impress you the most?
00:43:06.126 --> 00:43:11.527
The thing that impresses me the most is the ones that really engage with the coaches.
00:43:12.126 --> 00:43:27.244
And you are not guaranteed to perform well in every session, but if you can engage and even ask a question if somebody in your group does something really well, realise why they've done something well.
00:43:27.693 --> 00:43:43.534
And on the opposite side, if something's not gone quite so well try and educate yourself within it or ask the coaches as to why, because that's how you're gonna learn and develop by watching others succeed and fail and ultimately trying to put that into your own game.
00:43:43.534 --> 00:43:48.753
But the best way to learn is to engage with the coaches, for sure.
00:43:49.503 --> 00:43:49.563
Yeah.
00:43:49.563 --> 00:43:58.353
I guess it starts with self-awareness and knowing when I've made a mistake or I've done something well, and then learning from that then moves into watching what others are doing.
00:43:58.353 --> 00:43:58.864
Yeah, for sure.
00:43:59.298 --> 00:44:07.173
And I think that's a big thing on these camps because obviously when it's your turn and you are in, you are on the stage, you're engaged.
00:44:08.494 --> 00:44:14.284
what's difficult on these camps depend on numbers and age groups for sure is the drifting at the side.
00:44:14.494 --> 00:44:14.643
Yeah.
00:44:14.673 --> 00:44:24.673
But they don't realise that if they could really get the focus on what's happening with somebody else and when the coach is trying to break that down, that's when they'd learn even more.
00:44:24.974 --> 00:44:26.083
Question number two then.
00:44:26.833 --> 00:44:31.514
What are three habits every young goalkeeper should build before they worry about playing like the pros?
00:44:32.414 --> 00:44:43.934
I would never worry about playing like the pros because you cannot, it's great to have role models and idols, but every goalie is built differently for sure.
00:44:44.173 --> 00:44:45.943
You have to find your own way.
00:44:46.184 --> 00:44:55.034
So what I don't want is 20 robots in a line that are all the same, because if you're all the same, you're either all gonna be number ones or you're all gonna be out the game.
00:44:55.423 --> 00:44:56.744
You have to find a way.
00:44:56.983 --> 00:45:10.903
But I, I think for sure when you come to a camp or training you, put your own personality on the job, but your technical work and approach to your work has got to be flaws.
00:45:11.204 --> 00:45:12.608
Effort and authenticity.
00:45:12.608 --> 00:45:12.818
Yeah.
00:45:13.268 --> 00:45:13.507
Yeah.
00:45:14.197 --> 00:45:15.818
They are non-negotiables.
00:45:16.057 --> 00:45:26.692
If I were running EVOGK which interestingly leads nicely into question three, which is how can a young goalkeeper then become more coachable without losing their own personality?
00:45:26.842 --> 00:45:28.851
Because it's easy to just become a yes machine, right?
00:45:29.302 --> 00:45:29.512
Yeah.
00:45:29.512 --> 00:45:32.001
But like the best ones, you can see the edge with 'em.
00:45:32.001 --> 00:45:33.021
You can see the edge with 'em.
00:45:33.891 --> 00:45:42.291
they might give you the nod, they might just look at you in a certain way, but that's years of coaching experience from my, time in the game.
00:45:42.592 --> 00:45:44.782
But you don't want the nodding dogs.
00:45:44.931 --> 00:45:51.652
You want the ones who are going to challenge you because that's what makes me a better coach and I know that will make them a better goalie.
00:45:51.952 --> 00:45:54.472
The goalie just agrees with everything you say.
00:45:54.652 --> 00:45:59.061
Whether they're 8 or 38, no chance of having any effect.
00:45:59.271 --> 00:46:02.972
The one who challenges the coach right now, I've gotta make you better.
00:46:03.032 --> 00:46:04.742
Now I've gotta make my sessions better.
00:46:04.922 --> 00:46:10.452
And if you put as a coach, all them things together, that kid is only gonna flourish.
00:46:10.751 --> 00:46:11.981
Last question then, Dave.
00:46:12.762 --> 00:46:17.561
What's one thing that you wish every young keeper understood before they went into a serious training session?
00:46:17.777 --> 00:46:18.677
That it matters.
00:46:19.052 --> 00:46:23.972
And I take that because you never know when the last one is for whatever reason.
00:46:24.268 --> 00:46:24.898
That's powerful.
00:46:24.898 --> 00:46:25.498
I like that.
00:46:26.128 --> 00:46:26.728
I like that.
00:46:27.509 --> 00:46:28.829
Dave, it's been an absolute privilege.
00:46:28.829 --> 00:46:30.028
Thank you very much for joining us.
00:46:30.028 --> 00:46:30.329
Oh, good.
00:46:30.329 --> 00:46:31.108
I've enjoyed it.
00:46:31.108 --> 00:46:32.068
I've enjoyed it.
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:34.708
I hope you've enjoyed it as well.
00:46:34.829 --> 00:46:36.088
And I'll catch you on the next episode.
00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.628
Hello and welcome back for another episode of Catching Up with EVOGK.
00:00:09.648 --> 00:00:13.970
I'm Paul and today our special guest is none other than Dave Watson.
00:00:14.810 --> 00:00:19.579
Dave is a former Barnsley goalkeeper, made over 200 appearances for his hometown club.
00:00:19.910 --> 00:00:25.879
Played in the Premier League, represented England at youth level and had his own playing career, sadly cut short by injury.
00:00:26.629 --> 00:00:29.059
That experience has shaped the coach he became.
00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:46.304
Since moving into coaching, Dave has worked with English clubs including Oldham Athletic, Huddersfield Town, Northampton, Notts Forest, Birmingham City, Norwich City, Southampton as as well as the England U19s and the England senior team.
00:00:47.234 --> 00:00:50.384
And I've been reliably informed Dave has a good pair of binoculars.
00:00:50.713 --> 00:00:57.164
That is a long list, a long list that is a long list, and hopefully it was an enjoyable list, a very enjoyable time.
00:00:57.884 --> 00:01:10.603
Dave's also worked with some of the biggest English goalkeeper names in the modern era, including Joe Hart, Ben Foster, Jack Butland with his Birmingham work earning national attention before he joined Roy Hodgson's England setup.
00:01:11.144 --> 00:01:14.593
And what makes Dave such a valuable voice for young keepers is simple.
00:01:14.834 --> 00:01:22.573
He's played it, lost it and rebuilt himself through coaching and helped others reach the very top Dave, absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
00:01:22.573 --> 00:01:22.754
Welcome.
00:01:22.754 --> 00:01:23.953
A pleasure to be here.
00:01:24.043 --> 00:01:27.884
Looking forward to the next hour and maybe 3 hours of fun.
00:01:28.933 --> 00:01:30.614
And a fellow podcaster yourself as well, right?
00:01:30.614 --> 00:01:35.983
Oh yeah, I'm well into the podcasting game, so this is not new to me at all.
00:01:36.298 --> 00:01:42.087
So before we get into your journey, tell us who was your goal keeping idol growing up?
00:01:42.388 --> 00:01:58.826
Yeah, for me when I was growing up, it was really difficult to pick one because I always had Peter Shilton and I had Ray Clements, so I always torn between the two, especially when you talk about the national team and yeah, obviously ultimately you always have to pick one.
00:01:58.826 --> 00:02:06.906
So England really, in my early years and my recollection of England in tournaments always went for Peter Shilton.
00:02:07.227 --> 00:02:17.337
So he always got my edge, but when I used to watch much of the day, only chance he got to watch football on a Saturday evening, I had to choose between the two of them.
00:02:17.576 --> 00:02:23.728
But when it came to the national team, obviously I got more affinity than with Peter Shilton, for sure.
00:02:24.538 --> 00:02:25.168
Amazing.
00:02:25.826 --> 00:02:34.978
and yeah, Peter Shilton, I remember, waiting round in Peterlee Town Centre at one point for Peter to come and bring, a cup through and he never actually turned up, which was really annoying.
00:02:34.978 --> 00:02:37.632
But, yeah, very I would suggest.
00:02:37.766 --> 00:02:38.728
That's very frustrating.
00:02:40.677 --> 00:02:45.896
so you came through, Barnsley youth and went on to make over 200 appearances for your hometown club.
00:02:45.956 --> 00:02:46.137
Yeah.
00:02:46.706 --> 00:02:48.657
What's that mean to you as a player?
00:02:49.557 --> 00:03:04.858
I think when you talk to kids now, obviously, tomorrow I'll come and do a few sessions for the EvoGK team and kids ask you loads of questions about what, where ifs and why nots.
00:03:05.337 --> 00:03:09.867
But for me, I were very driven just to try and represent my hometown team.
00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:17.580
I think probably naively now, like appearance, money, cars, watches, it meant nothing to me.
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:17.939
Yeah.
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:27.539
I wanted to play for that team and I remember my, I made my debut at Derby County at the old baseball ground and we got beat 3 nil.
00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:39.090
But I remember going home that night and going back to my mum and dad's house, and it were like, every facet of your body just couldn't, you couldn't relax.
00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:45.270
You'd done something that really, as a kid at 13, 14, you thought were unimaginable.
00:03:45.569 --> 00:03:45.810
Yeah.
00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:47.340
And not achievable.
00:03:48.210 --> 00:03:54.509
but I obviously dedicated my young life at that point to try and be the best example as I could.
00:03:56.009 --> 00:03:58.740
but I were never in it for the outside rewards.
00:03:58.949 --> 00:03:59.069
Yeah.
00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:09.629
I wanted to play for the team and yeah, probably very naive, but it were a world in which your parents, set some boundaries.
00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:12.330
They were the driving force behind you.
00:04:12.330 --> 00:04:16.920
You didn't have football agents, so, there were no outside influence.
00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:22.620
My only drive were to play in that first team if it was achievable.
00:04:22.982 --> 00:04:27.291
Is an interesting question for you, and I'm keen to see how you answer it.
00:04:28.192 --> 00:04:34.432
Not trying to set outfield players against goalkeepers, but do you think goalkeepers have to work harder to make the breakthrough than outfield players?
00:04:34.732 --> 00:04:35.211
Yeah.
00:04:35.552 --> 00:04:37.971
I think it's a very unique position.
00:04:38.572 --> 00:04:43.372
I, as a younger player could play outfield and could play goalkeeper.
00:04:44.242 --> 00:04:45.831
I were very adaptable at both.
00:04:45.831 --> 00:04:48.382
Would I have been as successful as an outfield player?
00:04:48.382 --> 00:04:48.982
As a goalie?
00:04:49.521 --> 00:04:52.612
Probably not because I had a natural talent for sure.
00:04:53.122 --> 00:04:57.382
But I could play outfield to a very capable standard.
00:04:57.742 --> 00:05:02.242
And at the time I came through Barnsley's' Youth System, I didn't have a full-time goalie coach.
00:05:02.271 --> 00:05:04.521
I had a goalie coach once a week if I were lucky.
00:05:04.822 --> 00:05:07.072
So you became an outfield player?
00:05:07.101 --> 00:05:07.161
Yeah.
00:05:07.192 --> 00:05:22.372
So if you move forward to the modern game as a goalie now, I would've probably been a very good example of a modern day goalie,'cause I've always played high to defend the space and the line I were very capable of ball with a ball at my feet.
00:05:22.372 --> 00:05:23.661
But the rules were different then.
00:05:25.521 --> 00:05:31.014
so I think to playing goal, you have to have a numerous pass to your armoury.
00:05:31.343 --> 00:05:34.434
Yeah and obviously in the modern game you've gotta be able to play.
00:05:34.673 --> 00:05:35.874
You're a better dominate the area.
00:05:35.874 --> 00:05:39.923
You've gotta be quick, strong, brave, explosive, agile.
00:05:40.283 --> 00:05:48.923
I think as a footballer, if you fit and well and you can kick it with both feet and you're prepared to put your end in a little bit, you, can survive.
00:05:49.134 --> 00:05:52.043
A goalie, you need so many more tools to your arm with than that.
00:05:52.733 --> 00:05:53.004
Yeah.
00:05:53.483 --> 00:05:56.394
And hopefully we'll get into some of those in a little moment.
00:05:56.670 --> 00:06:03.220
Today's episode venue was kindly brought to you by the Hilton Garden Inn, just outside the stadium of light.
00:06:03.850 --> 00:06:17.500
They provide matchday Hospitality to Sunderland fans, and if you do want to drop by on a matchday for food and drinks before the game, please check out their social media profiles to find out which days they have available and get yourself booked in.
00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:21.550
They have some phenomenal prices in there, great packages, highly recommended.
00:06:23.603 --> 00:06:29.483
What, was, when you've made that step into the professional game, how did that differ from what you thought it would be?
00:06:30.084 --> 00:06:32.798
Was it, exactly like you'd imagined or was it completely different?
00:06:32.843 --> 00:06:40.374
I think because you spend 2 years as an apprentice or I were a YTS lad, you it's really tough.
00:06:40.374 --> 00:06:42.624
It's probably really brutal now.
00:06:42.624 --> 00:06:52.374
And obviously the academies are set up to look after kids and players and everything better, but it made you hardened and to want to be a footballer for sure.
00:06:53.483 --> 00:07:03.923
but you saw what being a footballer were all about you, you knew that if you were fortunate enough to make that grade and be offered a professional contract, there were nothing that you didn't see.
00:07:04.374 --> 00:07:06.713
So you knew, what were out there.
00:07:07.074 --> 00:07:14.153
But again, I was still driven by wanting to be like the goalies at that time at Barnsley were a guy called Clive Baker.
00:07:14.843 --> 00:07:16.673
And he really helped me in my young career.
00:07:16.673 --> 00:07:21.774
He went on, had a fantastic career at Ipswich and bits and pieces, but you really learn from them guys.
00:07:21.774 --> 00:07:27.983
A guy called Lee Butler who they signed from Aston Villa, unbelievable guy, friend to this day.
00:07:28.254 --> 00:07:34.163
And I remember my mum and dad seeing him in the Asda in Barnsley once and him telling me, mum and dad, don't worry.
00:07:34.163 --> 00:07:34.944
He's better than me.
00:07:34.944 --> 00:07:35.783
He'll be in the team.
00:07:36.113 --> 00:07:37.733
I think it were a different time.
00:07:37.884 --> 00:07:38.963
Things were different then.
00:07:39.024 --> 00:07:40.824
Yeah and I think people were different.
00:07:42.324 --> 00:07:49.913
and football's still an amazing thing, but it's come away from the modern man and the modern field is different now.
00:07:50.124 --> 00:07:51.803
And I just wanted to play football.
00:07:52.793 --> 00:08:02.033
now a lot of lads who are on this journey for sure, the dream is to represent whether it's the hometown team, the country or whatever.
00:08:02.394 --> 00:08:05.004
But I think the outside drivers are slightly different.
00:08:05.093 --> 00:08:05.274
Yeah.
00:08:06.105 --> 00:08:11.646
And for the younger audience that are watching the podcast, Barnsley at this point was where?
00:08:12.276 --> 00:08:16.456
It would've been the equivalent of a championship team now.
00:08:16.456 --> 00:08:16.576
Yeah.
00:08:16.846 --> 00:08:19.576
So I played all the majority of my football career.
00:08:19.636 --> 00:08:23.555
The majority of them 200 games would've been in the championship.
00:08:23.625 --> 00:08:32.775
I was fortunate enough to get the team promoted, so I had 1 year in the Premier League and then the season afterwards I only did 6 games and got injured and I never played again.
00:08:32.806 --> 00:08:42.885
So frustrating, in a fortunate way, if it's the only time I probably talk about money on this podcast, I'd just signed a new 3 year contract.
00:08:42.885 --> 00:08:50.806
So I had an opportunity to try and get fit and spent certainly the first 18 months trying to get fit.
00:08:50.895 --> 00:09:04.576
And then a guy and I know well and the EVOGK family know, Eric Steele, who was a coach of mine, said that he thought I should start looking into the coaching pathway.
00:09:05.385 --> 00:09:09.645
obviously took his advice on board, still obviously at that point thinking I could get fit.
00:09:10.816 --> 00:09:12.405
but obviously didn't quite make it.
00:09:12.405 --> 00:09:20.956
And actually it's ironic that Eric, I asked him to come and watch me play a reserve game at Mansfield Town when I'd been injured for 2 and a half years.
00:09:21.316 --> 00:09:38.176
And he came to watch that game and told me that I think time's time and very, obviously difficult for him to have that conversation with me, difficult for me to hear that conversation, but through that, he drove me into being hopefully the best coach that I could have made myself into.
00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:41.817
I think we all get given a path to walk, right?
00:09:41.817 --> 00:09:47.277
And it's not always what we think it'll be, but it's where, we always end up, where we're meant to be is how I always look at things.
00:09:48.986 --> 00:09:54.506
what was it like when you got that call to go and represent England at youth level then?
00:09:54.956 --> 00:09:55.287
Yeah.
00:09:56.076 --> 00:09:59.297
do you know where I'm, I actually came, I came up to Sunderland.
00:09:59.976 --> 00:10:01.897
I sat on the bench at Roker Park.
00:10:01.956 --> 00:10:09.307
I can't even remember who the game was, but a goalie had got injured and obviously I'd been doing well for Barnsley's youth team.
00:10:09.876 --> 00:10:13.326
And Mick Wadsworth were the Youth England youth team coach.
00:10:13.687 --> 00:10:22.447
And he obviously knew our youth team coach who'd been watching me from afar, because at that point, the England coaches used to come into all the clubs and take you for a day's training.
00:10:22.687 --> 00:10:25.476
So that's how they got to know players and staff.
00:10:25.476 --> 00:10:31.706
And so I'd had that connection with Mick anyway, and Barnsley had been 2 hours away from Sunderland.
00:10:31.836 --> 00:10:35.197
I got the call I think 36 hours before the game.
00:10:35.197 --> 00:10:39.427
So I, the, youth team coach brought me up the night 2 nights before the game.
00:10:39.427 --> 00:10:45.187
So I had the next day training, then the next day I sat on the bench for a, game at roker Park.
00:10:45.216 --> 00:10:47.197
It was quite surreal.
00:10:47.287 --> 00:10:56.017
And I kept my track suit, still got, my mum's, still got me tracksuit so I think that's a memory, but that ultimately where the start of the journey, yeah.
00:10:56.076 --> 00:11:02.197
I didn't feel out of place when I was on the training pitch or preparing for the game.
00:11:03.277 --> 00:11:12.726
as a young Lad been thrown into that environment, having never thought, or probably ever gonna make it as a professional footballer, nevermind to represent your country.
00:11:13.807 --> 00:11:16.206
I felt very uncomfortable at that point.
00:11:16.417 --> 00:11:18.907
But as soon as you put the boots and gloves on, it's a different world.
00:11:19.177 --> 00:11:36.427
But if you'd asked me to do a podcast 40 years ago, Yeah and sit in front of cameras or talk to people or even do the work tomorrow and do seminars and stand in front of thousands of people and talk, that's never naturally gonna be a skillset.
00:11:36.427 --> 00:11:44.317
But I think as you get older, you become a little bit less self-aware and obviously your experiences give you that confidence.
00:11:44.616 --> 00:11:48.897
But the first time I stepped into that environment up at Sunderland.
00:11:49.447 --> 00:11:49.807
Yeah.
00:11:50.167 --> 00:11:51.006
very uncomfortable.
00:11:52.116 --> 00:11:54.576
I think that's quite common for all young goalkeepers, right?
00:11:55.626 --> 00:12:08.889
there's a difference between wanting to make it and knowing that you've got the capability or believing in yourself, but when it actually push comes to shove that moment of tomorrow I'm playing first team, I'm gonna be playing in the big league here.
00:12:09.038 --> 00:12:11.769
I can imagine that being pretty much everyone, right?
00:12:11.918 --> 00:12:12.369
that's healthy.
00:12:12.668 --> 00:12:14.948
Yeah, it's healthy and that's what everybody wants.
00:12:14.948 --> 00:12:19.928
And I'm, sure you've, done loads of these things and you've spoke to various people at various levels.
00:12:20.379 --> 00:12:39.009
And I've worked as a player and as a coach with some phenomenal talent, But it's different to survive a working week knowing that you're gonna play in front of 20 million people on TV and a hundred thousand on a weekend or 70,000 at old Trafford or whatever it is.
00:12:39.698 --> 00:12:49.658
And ultimately the difference in the levels is not that much, but the difference in the levels between the ears and the mentality for somebody to survive in that environment.
00:12:49.719 --> 00:12:57.849
And when you make the big mistake that we all make and we're all gonna make and the longer you're playing goal, the more mistakes you'll make.
00:12:58.614 --> 00:13:09.489
It's that resilience to come back time and time again and stick the gloves back on and get your chest out and smell the grass and, go through the moments.
00:13:09.788 --> 00:13:20.318
And a lot of goalies I've worked with, when they've had some real difficult times, as we all do, I always try and take 'them back to that moment that they loved football more than anything in the world.
00:13:20.318 --> 00:13:29.019
The first time they put the gloves and the boots on and they're playing with their mates just out on the field with, whether it's a school match, whether it's a match on a Saturday morning.
00:13:29.259 --> 00:13:34.688
And I just try and get them to picture that moment and smell the grass at that moment because that's why we're here.
00:13:35.168 --> 00:13:41.078
And if you can take it back to that and realise that's what it's all about, you'll be better for it.
00:13:41.798 --> 00:13:42.369
I love that.
00:13:43.119 --> 00:13:43.839
I love that.
00:13:44.408 --> 00:13:56.288
I actually, that's goosebumps hearing you talk because like I see my young lad now and I talk about it on the podcast all the time and I look at, and I just think you don't even realise how lucky you are to have what you have and be as good as you are.
00:13:56.474 --> 00:13:58.208
I was, I had nothing when I was a kid.
00:13:58.208 --> 00:14:00.188
I got no opportunities and I had no talent to be fair.
00:14:00.188 --> 00:14:02.499
I didn't, it was never a sports type.
00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:07.369
how old were you when the injury happened?
00:14:08.109 --> 00:14:08.548
23.
00:14:08.849 --> 00:14:09.239
23.
00:14:10.869 --> 00:14:11.288
Yeah.
00:14:11.708 --> 00:14:13.089
And so do you think that.
00:14:13.405 --> 00:14:21.265
Early injury that having your career cut short at that point, 200 appearances at 23, there's nothing to be sniffed at for a first team keeper.
00:14:22.346 --> 00:14:29.306
do you, does that frustrate you when you see young keepers or other keepers who just how have the talent but they're just not yeah.
00:14:29.515 --> 00:14:34.556
applying it, it created who and what I was as a person and ultimately as a coach for sure.
00:14:36.446 --> 00:14:38.005
let's not kid ourselves.
00:14:38.005 --> 00:14:42.535
The first year or 18 months of that journey were very, difficult.
00:14:42.956 --> 00:14:49.346
And, any green shoots evaporated quickly over a period of time.
00:14:50.515 --> 00:14:58.826
but it's what, tough makes you stronger and through difficult times, the shoots began to get bigger and greener.
00:14:58.826 --> 00:15:13.785
And ultimately, I suppose here I am, but, what it did do for me is it formed, an application in my coaching that I would never accept of anybody who I would doing a session with.
00:15:13.785 --> 00:15:18.855
I'm talking professionally, obviously, when you do camps and there's loads of kids at various levels Yeah.
00:15:19.365 --> 00:15:20.296
That's a different thing.
00:15:20.296 --> 00:15:21.796
I'm talking professionally here.
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:23.668
I set the bar very high.
00:15:23.788 --> 00:15:42.239
And if the standards of anybody coming into my sessions didn't meet those standards, then that would've been dealt with quite severely because I had my opportunity taken away and they had opportunities in front of them that they weren't grasping with two hands.
00:15:42.328 --> 00:15:42.389
Yeah.
00:15:42.479 --> 00:15:44.759
And I found that very difficult to accept.
00:15:45.359 --> 00:15:58.499
Obviously, as I matured and got older, I softened and mellowed and realised there's different ways and I got better because I were a better human being and I could talk to people and look the way the modern world went.
00:15:58.499 --> 00:16:06.389
We were debriefing, we were pre briefing and you spend so much more time together as well as on the grass and on a match day.
00:16:06.688 --> 00:16:06.869
Yeah.
00:16:06.928 --> 00:16:19.594
But my, early experiences of coaching and when people weren't prepared to give me a 100%, and ultimately the game that we all love 100%, I found that very difficult.
00:16:19.894 --> 00:16:23.823
What did, what was Eric's Eric Steele influence on that coaching, do you think?
00:16:25.203 --> 00:16:29.823
Eric's influence on my life has been profound, is the Godfather to my son.
00:16:30.303 --> 00:16:36.543
Him and his wife, got basically me and my now wife together.
00:16:38.974 --> 00:16:42.033
it's been a unique and remarkable thing.
00:16:42.783 --> 00:16:52.083
I cried profoundly when he left Barnsley as coach, which was only a day a week, and he left Barnsley to go full-time to Darby.
00:16:53.524 --> 00:16:55.413
I found that really difficult.
00:16:55.474 --> 00:17:02.644
I'd not only got a great goalie coach, but a friend And somebody I trusted who could develop me on and off the field.
00:17:03.813 --> 00:17:20.614
and I found it really difficult to replace him and I never really replaced him, even though i were number one goalie and I'd got the choice of goalie coaches and there were probably 6 or 7 came through the door, who I said weren't up to standard, but they were probably never ever gonna be up to Eric's standard.
00:17:20.614 --> 00:17:24.213
So walking in a tough mantra to follow, but yeah.
00:17:24.963 --> 00:17:46.317
yeah, I think for Eric, certainly when I finished his drive to know that I'd still got some burning desire inside me to do something in football, even though my football career had been taken away, his influence and support has been invaluable to this day.
00:17:46.641 --> 00:17:54.290
And then you work through a variety of clubs and I know the way football works, it's not always by choice, sometimes it's by circumstances.
00:17:54.381 --> 00:17:54.560
Yeah.
00:17:55.431 --> 00:17:57.711
but it sounds like that was something you enjoyed.
00:17:58.010 --> 00:17:58.191
Yeah.
00:17:58.205 --> 00:17:58.846
Experience.
00:17:58.846 --> 00:18:00.530
Look, the coaching pathway is difficult, isn't it?
00:18:00.770 --> 00:18:04.760
when you come out of playing, you can't think you're gonna be the best coach.
00:18:05.151 --> 00:18:20.181
if I could rewind and if we would've had this technology and I could, somebody could have filmed my first ever goalie session at Northampton Town and then you film my last session, even tomorrow's session, it would be polar, like worlds apart.
00:18:21.471 --> 00:18:28.730
and ultimately our very fortunate that I had some good goalies along the way who supported me in the early parts of my journey.
00:18:29.151 --> 00:18:35.361
Because if they wouldn't have supported me to the managers, the coaches, the other players, it would've been difficult.
00:18:35.361 --> 00:18:50.961
I started doing oldham and part-time, Northampton part-time and you're up and down the road, you're driving, you're committed, you're doing the full package on a day, you're doing the senior players morning, afternoon, you're doing the centre of excellence as it was at the time at night.
00:18:51.530 --> 00:18:54.111
You're working hard for your few quid, that's for sure.
00:18:54.111 --> 00:18:59.631
And you're travelling up and down, but it's the hard yards that give you then the opportunity.
00:18:59.631 --> 00:19:07.881
I remember watering the grass with the hose pipe and doing all these things at various clubs, just trying to give the goalies a chance to have a decent session.
00:19:08.060 --> 00:19:18.800
And then obviously as you, as your career develops, and you're fortunate enough to get to better facilities, you've got groundsmen pandering to your every whimper, the water's where you want it, the grass is immaculate.
00:19:18.830 --> 00:19:20.330
You could eat your breakfast on it.
00:19:20.330 --> 00:19:20.901
You know what I mean?
00:19:20.901 --> 00:19:28.401
There's no blade of grass outta turn, but you've gotta do the hard yards to get to those points and then appreciate it.
00:19:29.570 --> 00:19:38.900
so yeah, the journey's difficult and I think that's why there's not as many ex goalies make top coaches because it's a very difficult and hard journey.
00:19:39.289 --> 00:19:46.549
You don't just go from being an international goalie for England with a 100 caps, for instance and walk straight into a great coaching job.
00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:46.670
Yeah.
00:19:46.670 --> 00:19:48.140
Because it just cannot happen.
00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:49.220
It's a different skillset.
00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:50.809
Totally different skillset.
00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:59.089
So then, you've mentioned earlier, you, were lucky enough to work at Birmingham with the likes of Joe Hart, Ben Foster, Jack Butland.
00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:06.619
What do you think that level, what's the attribute that keepers at that level have in common that helps them stand apart?
00:20:06.950 --> 00:20:11.210
it's obviously all of them have a natural ability for sure.
00:20:11.299 --> 00:20:19.799
Look, you, coaching is a unique thing and coaching you try and develop these guys, but there's a natural talent there for sure.
00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:23.720
It doesn't just come off a conveyor belt, goalkeeping talent.
00:20:23.779 --> 00:20:30.079
So there's a natural talent obviously, hand eye coordination, spring speed, athleticism, all these things.
00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:39.769
But the one driver that always dominates and is a standout skillset is the mentality to perform.
00:20:40.174 --> 00:20:46.730
And the actual desire, especially to perform on a match day when it's all out, Yeah.
00:20:46.849 --> 00:20:48.230
You can train well all week.
00:20:48.769 --> 00:20:52.099
I could probably put my boots and gloves on tonight and do Okay.
00:20:52.099 --> 00:20:53.269
If you took some shots at me.
00:20:53.269 --> 00:20:53.329
Yeah.
00:20:54.049 --> 00:21:03.319
But the desire to do it day in, day out and go and represent your team to the best level in unbelievably difficult circumstances.
00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:13.250
And then if the very best of them are fortunate enough to be able to stand on that international stage for everybody on the planet to shoot at you, that's the standout key.
00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:13.430
Yeah.
00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:25.369
If I go to Sunderland tomorrow and I take all 20 Premier League goalies and the stadium's full and it's my session and they're just in training mindset, the difference would be nothing.
00:21:25.670 --> 00:21:25.880
Yeah.
00:21:25.910 --> 00:21:26.900
From top to bottom.
00:21:27.470 --> 00:21:33.859
But you see 'em then turn up match day and the mentality and the drive and the desire, the talent and ability's still there.
00:21:34.099 --> 00:21:46.194
But the ones who get to the very, very, top, they're different animals match day Whether it's in your car or on the team bus, or like most teams, you're flying on the day of the game or flying the night before the game.
00:21:46.644 --> 00:21:48.505
You cannot wait for touchdown.
00:21:48.744 --> 00:21:51.414
You cannot wait for takeoff, like a night game.
00:21:51.414 --> 00:21:56.275
It's the longest wait for you to get your chance to get on that dance floor and perform.
00:21:56.305 --> 00:22:02.724
It's like being that gladiator in that colosseum and Yeah, the very best, they absolutely love it.
00:22:02.904 --> 00:22:12.825
There's no fear and it's trying to take that mentality of that 8-year-old kid, 7-year-old kid, boots, gloves, smelling the grass into that colosseum.
00:22:13.134 --> 00:22:20.125
And if you can do that and take the outside noise away, you'll have an unbelievable career.
00:22:20.184 --> 00:22:23.154
And football is an amazing thing.
00:22:23.545 --> 00:22:26.964
Can give you so many joys and pleasures just on the grass.
00:22:26.964 --> 00:22:29.095
I'm not talking about the rewards outside of it.
00:22:29.095 --> 00:22:32.335
Yeah, no, because that shouldn't come into play for anybody really.
00:22:32.335 --> 00:22:32.394
Yeah.
00:22:33.474 --> 00:22:34.525
It's a, yeah.
00:22:34.914 --> 00:22:41.305
Secondary benefit, Joe Hart, then the name that, that most of the kids these days, I recognise the easiest.
00:22:41.545 --> 00:22:44.515
Joe Hart come to play football at Birmingham.
00:22:45.775 --> 00:22:47.785
and he come out of his comfort zone quite a bit there, right?
00:22:48.085 --> 00:22:48.325
Yeah.
00:22:49.295 --> 00:22:52.224
I think at that point it was the right time for him.
00:22:52.224 --> 00:22:55.255
I'd worked with him in the England youth teams, so I knew him.
00:22:55.404 --> 00:22:58.224
It wasn't like a virginal appearance.
00:22:58.224 --> 00:23:00.204
And it would take your chances with him.
00:23:00.355 --> 00:23:01.464
I'd got to know him.
00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:09.535
I knew the ability he'd got, I knew Man City weren't gonna put him in their team, but I knew we needed to upgrade at Birmingham if we were gonna stay in the Premier League.
00:23:10.855 --> 00:23:23.694
and obviously it would a big shock because not many young goalies get the opportunity to perform in the Premier League and the demands of what Birmingham were gonna be, it were gonna be required to make some big interventions for us to stay in the league.
00:23:24.865 --> 00:23:25.029
yeah.
00:23:25.134 --> 00:23:36.144
And I would say, and if you had him here with me today, yeah, of course Undoubted talent knew he'd got the talent and he could perform, but the first 6 to 8 games was still tough.
00:23:36.984 --> 00:23:38.214
The team finding its feet.
00:23:38.244 --> 00:23:42.045
He's finding his feet, and you live on moments.
00:23:42.045 --> 00:23:51.144
And his big moment we were going to anfield, I think it was a Friday night live game and we got a 2-2 draw and he were phenomenal in the game.
00:23:51.144 --> 00:23:55.075
Not only making saves, but dominating his box, taking crosses.
00:23:55.884 --> 00:23:59.875
And I remember him late on in the game catching one and kissing the ball.
00:24:00.234 --> 00:24:02.335
And I think that was the moment for me.
00:24:03.785 --> 00:24:04.255
I thought he's got it.
00:24:04.345 --> 00:24:04.765
He's got it.
00:24:05.275 --> 00:24:05.515
Yeah.
00:24:05.815 --> 00:24:13.404
He settled and from that moment on, really, he rode the crest of a wave for a very long time.
00:24:13.555 --> 00:24:21.865
And it's interesting, actually, I'm going off syn here, but Guardiola, when he is just left, man City said his only regret is that he never gave him a chance.
00:24:22.795 --> 00:24:24.134
cause he would've phenomenal goalie too.
00:24:24.134 --> 00:24:24.305
Yeah.
00:24:25.434 --> 00:24:26.424
Proper, phenomenal.
00:24:26.575 --> 00:24:29.394
And he would better with a ball at his feet than anybody give him credit for.
00:24:29.575 --> 00:24:34.553
And I think City making that decision to take Bravo in, were the wrong decision.
00:24:34.702 --> 00:24:38.423
And I think Joe Hart could have probably gone on and had another 50 caps for England.
00:24:38.482 --> 00:24:38.663
Yeah.
00:24:38.752 --> 00:24:40.823
If Guardiola wouldn't have made that decision.
00:24:41.423 --> 00:24:43.343
And I love Jordan Pickford.
00:24:43.343 --> 00:24:44.813
I think he's a phenomenal goalie.
00:24:44.873 --> 00:24:48.113
Never let England down and I hope that he doesn't this summer.
00:24:48.772 --> 00:24:51.653
But he didn't have the ability that Joe hart had.
00:24:52.103 --> 00:25:01.133
But Joe hart came across a time and certainly like me having to finish through injury, you get a manager like Guardiola doesn't give you an opportunity.
00:25:01.133 --> 00:25:03.682
It's very difficult to bounce back from, get pushed out.
00:25:03.682 --> 00:25:06.292
And it's almost a downward slope from there, whether you like it or not.
00:25:06.292 --> 00:25:15.712
Through no fault of your own even just difference of he the top of his tree and Guardiola, I think it were more to do with the leadership and the culture in the dressing room potentially than ability.
00:25:15.863 --> 00:25:15.982
Yeah.
00:25:16.012 --> 00:25:17.123
But he made a big call.
00:25:17.123 --> 00:25:25.792
But it's interesting to see after 10 years of unbridled success is one regret is that he never gave him a chance because they didn't solve the Goalkeeping problem.
00:25:25.792 --> 00:25:26.782
No, very quickly.
00:25:27.083 --> 00:25:36.682
It took a period of time and certainly Bravo for two years didn't warrant being better or in the team in front of Joe, but time had gone, Yeah.
00:25:37.032 --> 00:25:41.847
And so then moving on to Ben Foster, An interesting conversation that we don't often have.
00:25:41.847 --> 00:25:53.337
We talk lots about practice and skill and training and different tactics and things, but Ben also had to manage his body carefully in terms of protecting from injuries, things like that.
00:25:53.367 --> 00:25:53.428
Yeah.
00:25:53.762 --> 00:25:58.077
Probably my first time really as a coach where I couldn't drive the culture as I wanted.
00:25:59.219 --> 00:26:07.288
Because I want a, kind of relentless coach in terms of looking for the minute detail that the 1 percenters that could make a big difference on a match day.
00:26:07.887 --> 00:26:19.962
But Ben, having had two acls obviously had to be managed differently, so my whole thought process changed and I probably became a better coach through that period because you learn different ways.
00:26:20.127 --> 00:26:20.367
Yeah.
00:26:21.478 --> 00:26:24.268
I knew through my injury that I didn't want goalies running.
00:26:24.268 --> 00:26:29.758
I didn't want certain types of work that were gonna put real impact onto joints and things like that.
00:26:29.758 --> 00:26:33.928
You imagine the amount of times you are up, down diving throughout a season, it's phenomenal.
00:26:34.137 --> 00:26:36.387
So pre-season, were always tailored around that.
00:26:36.387 --> 00:26:48.718
But certainly Ben's specific individual needs led me to become a different coach because I had to think differently about him and ultimately the longevity of goalies in the game.
00:26:49.887 --> 00:26:56.998
And is there any advice that you can take out that and apply it to the youth game today in terms of young keepers looking after themselves outside of the match?
00:26:57.028 --> 00:27:03.958
'cause I see a lot of kids training 5, 6, 7 days a week doing double sessions, playing football at school, football outside of school, different sports.
00:27:04.288 --> 00:27:05.218
My lad's no different.
00:27:05.968 --> 00:27:07.167
How do they look after themselves?
00:27:07.198 --> 00:27:13.827
Yeah, it's very difficult because at that age you've got energy to burn and you don't realise that there's gonna be a detrimental effect further down the line.
00:27:14.067 --> 00:27:16.137
And to some, there'll not be a detrimental effect.
00:27:16.347 --> 00:27:20.698
everybody's different and everybody's, bone structures and skeletons are different.
00:27:20.698 --> 00:27:27.538
But ultimately today, the three and 4G pictures give you an unbelievable environment.
00:27:27.597 --> 00:27:34.198
So you're not gonna get a bobble when you wanna low dive or if you're doing a passing exercise, you're not worried about getting the ball.
00:27:34.198 --> 00:27:35.847
And it, it's perfect.
00:27:36.357 --> 00:27:39.178
I have a fear, obviously for injuries on that.
00:27:39.867 --> 00:27:42.357
And, obviously the, hard contacts.
00:27:42.958 --> 00:27:46.978
Ultimately, that'll have to come in time, whether it has been detrimental.
00:27:47.188 --> 00:27:52.325
But training over training when you are young cannot be positive.
00:27:52.505 --> 00:27:53.164
Long term.
00:27:53.164 --> 00:27:54.065
It cannot be.
00:27:54.394 --> 00:27:59.825
But managing that with the excitement and the drive of youth is very difficult.
00:28:00.095 --> 00:28:01.654
And dads never get it right.
00:28:01.865 --> 00:28:10.125
If I tell my son tonight not to do X, Y, or Z, you can guarantee he will do X, Y, or Z. So I'm glad I've left him with his mum tonight.
00:28:11.134 --> 00:28:23.494
But the, reality is that sometimes less is more for sure, especially when you get into proper training environments and cultures, then the programmes have to be tailored properly.
00:28:23.871 --> 00:28:24.500
And.
00:28:24.983 --> 00:28:29.354
Taking that one step further, you then stepped into the England senior setup with Roy Hodgson.
00:28:29.503 --> 00:28:29.653
Yeah.
00:28:30.794 --> 00:28:32.354
what was that first England camp like?
00:28:32.653 --> 00:28:33.013
Mate?
00:28:33.134 --> 00:28:40.723
Honestly, the most surreal time of my life, I'll never forget it, because it was just a really strange week.
00:28:40.753 --> 00:28:44.653
We'd lost with Birmingham in the playoffs, semifinal to Blackpool.
00:28:45.253 --> 00:28:49.574
We'd been in the championship all season, I think we'd played 64 games.
00:28:50.023 --> 00:28:52.753
'cause we'd done unbelievable in the FA cup.
00:28:53.114 --> 00:28:57.134
We'd been in the Europa League in the championship, we'd had all the championship games.
00:28:57.134 --> 00:29:02.473
We'd finally got beat in the semi-final off Blackpool on the Wednesday night.
00:29:03.134 --> 00:29:07.013
I'm sat, me son, were probably not a year old.
00:29:07.344 --> 00:29:12.294
And we sat in the lounge at home and we watched Man City score against QPR.
00:29:12.713 --> 00:29:16.074
And we both, me and my wife, and me wife screamed the babies woke up.
00:29:16.074 --> 00:29:16.919
We were like, ah, whatever.
00:29:17.513 --> 00:29:20.273
And I think that game must have been a Sunday.
00:29:20.364 --> 00:29:27.804
And on the Monday I got a phone call to go and potentially be the England goalie coach at the tournament in Poland and Ukraine.
00:29:29.064 --> 00:29:37.128
Roy phoned me and said, there's you and another guy who I need to, I've got to do me due diligence on, would you be interested in coming?
00:29:37.314 --> 00:29:41.423
And obviously I'm, coming already cancelled everything else.
00:29:41.693 --> 00:29:46.794
And, he got back to me in a couple of days and I've learned since obviously Ben Foster spoke highly with me.
00:29:46.794 --> 00:29:49.703
Joe Hart spoke highly with me, all the people in the game.
00:29:50.094 --> 00:29:53.094
I still to this day don't know who the other candidate was.
00:29:53.963 --> 00:29:54.983
that's football, isn't it?
00:29:54.983 --> 00:29:57.084
You can be so close, but yet so far away.
00:29:57.630 --> 00:29:58.223
But yeah.
00:29:58.763 --> 00:30:01.284
a surreal experience at the end of that season.
00:30:01.284 --> 00:30:09.953
But when I first turned up to work for England and you saw the faces of the players and the quality and Yeah.
00:30:12.413 --> 00:30:14.784
a very humbling experience for sure.
00:30:15.054 --> 00:30:23.844
And yeah, I'd coached at that point what would've been, yeah, 2014.
00:30:23.844 --> 00:30:25.973
So yeah, it's 12 years ago, isn't it?
00:30:25.973 --> 00:30:28.794
So I'd have been, late 30's.
00:30:30.653 --> 00:30:37.943
but yeah, I'd coached 1000's and 1000's of hours, but that were a nervous session the first time I've put that England kit on for sure.
00:30:38.903 --> 00:30:47.183
And do you still find the same challenges at that level that you have at club level, even, like Yeah, for sure.
00:30:47.213 --> 00:30:51.144
If anything, it's probably more difficult and, the demands are more difficult.
00:30:51.834 --> 00:31:11.604
I'm not here to talk about Spygate, what's just obviously happened, but when you are an international team, the manager has to pick the team a lot earlier because when you travel away from home and you want to do a session in their stadium the day before the match, you've got to pick your team a day prior to that because you've gotta do your work privately at St.
00:31:11.604 --> 00:31:13.193
George's Park at that time.
00:31:13.463 --> 00:31:18.894
And I remember taking the set plays and sometimes we went inside to do set plays, even though St.
00:31:18.894 --> 00:31:21.713
George's Park were our home.
00:31:22.049 --> 00:31:24.240
And you couldn't imagine somebody seeing it.
00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:24.630
Yeah.
00:31:24.930 --> 00:31:27.599
But you're that wary of things like that.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:36.420
So we did the set plays inside it quite a few times, but obviously you had to be more set up and ready because you had to pick your team 48 hours earlier.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:41.880
So when we went to train on a stadium, it would just nothing'cause you were giving nothing away.
00:31:42.329 --> 00:31:44.460
So you had to be a bit better prepared for sure.
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:50.430
And what's it like being on the bench behind the team on international game day?
00:31:50.490 --> 00:31:51.960
Like it must be Oh, phenomenal.
00:31:52.259 --> 00:31:55.140
I remember that first game, my first ever game as a coach.
00:31:55.140 --> 00:32:05.640
with noway away pre tournament and I remember stood you can imagine the noise around cameras going off, tv things everywhere.
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:12.009
But just standing up to sing that anthem, I remembered it as a player fortunately, in the youth teams and the under 21's.
00:32:12.750 --> 00:32:17.819
but to sing that anthem as a member of staff, yeah, were pretty, pretty humbling experience for me.
00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:18.420
For sure.
00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:43.981
And when you just bring it down to the human level, you think about people who have helped you on your journey when you're singing that song, you think, I thought about my dad who passed away a long time before and I think it's things like that hit home to you and it's the emotional side of things when the anthem plays, that's quite hard to come through, to be honest with you'cause you're probably not actually at that moment thinking about football.
00:32:44.342 --> 00:32:44.491
Yeah.
00:32:45.122 --> 00:32:52.321
But then it stops and then it's back to business and it's, you just got to be switched on and off like that, It's that reset, isn't it?
00:32:52.382 --> 00:32:52.771
Yeah.
00:32:52.771 --> 00:33:00.001
And it's just like being a goalie, when you have a good or bad moment, it's gone and you have to have the next moment.
00:33:00.211 --> 00:33:03.182
And that's the, amazing thing about playing goal.
00:33:03.582 --> 00:33:05.491
You have an amazing moment you make a say.
00:33:05.852 --> 00:33:09.001
If you're not back in the game, the next action's a mistake.
00:33:09.451 --> 00:33:11.717
And on the opposite of that, you make a mistake.
00:33:11.717 --> 00:33:14.582
But if you next actions are positive, you're back in the game.
00:33:14.882 --> 00:33:15.061
Yeah.
00:33:15.122 --> 00:33:19.741
So you can't start sinking, but you can't start getting too high either the best one.
00:33:19.741 --> 00:33:23.162
It's just that neutral level of consistency.
00:33:23.461 --> 00:33:30.152
While we're there then, have you got any tricks or tips that you'd Yeah, look, I used to do a lot with goalies for sure.
00:33:30.211 --> 00:33:39.541
Obviously this is, if you're playing at a level and you've got clocks and screens and things, I always used to say to 'em, look, you, decide the time intervals.
00:33:39.811 --> 00:33:47.071
But I used to put it in 15 minute blocks and just to strap, your gloves every 15 minutes roughly.
00:33:47.582 --> 00:33:51.842
And imagine we're starting again so you don't drift in that 45 minutes.
00:33:52.082 --> 00:33:56.971
now with the extra time you get, it could be 55 minutes, so you might be re strap, you might need some new gloves.
00:33:56.971 --> 00:34:00.872
But I tried to have that methodology so that you didn't drift.
00:34:02.282 --> 00:34:04.442
When you looked at that, I wouldn't shout on or anything.
00:34:04.682 --> 00:34:09.601
They had to be aware of it, but they knew then at a point it had to be a reset, right we're off again.
00:34:09.661 --> 00:34:11.702
So you just never got caught drifting.
00:34:11.882 --> 00:34:12.061
Yeah.
00:34:12.452 --> 00:34:17.132
that was one mechanism I used to try and get the lads to make sure they didn't switch off, for sure.
00:34:17.612 --> 00:34:18.121
Love that.
00:34:18.871 --> 00:34:26.228
And so obviously modern game has changed considerably even in the last 10 years, from 20, 30 years ago.
00:34:26.588 --> 00:34:30.757
Do you think modern goalkeepers need to understand the whole team's strategy more now than ever?
00:34:31.057 --> 00:34:34.777
Yeah, I think the education now is phenomenal in academies.
00:34:34.777 --> 00:34:46.777
Look, every nuance of a position for your team, whether you're playing with a back 4, back 5, if you're playing with 1 6, 2 6's, 2 8's, 2 10's.
00:34:46.838 --> 00:34:50.708
I think the education that the lads get is phenomenal.
00:34:51.097 --> 00:34:58.838
But ultimately when you're playing goal, if you've got 1 6 or 2 8's, you've still gotta get your team set up so that you can find the patterns.
00:34:59.108 --> 00:35:02.677
You've not only gotta be able to see the patterns, you've gotta be able to execute the patterns.
00:35:03.007 --> 00:35:11.137
And when you know that your team play a certain way, you've gotta think the opposition are gonna set you up for that pass, but really want to jump on this pass.
00:35:11.438 --> 00:35:13.507
So it's not that easy.
00:35:13.717 --> 00:35:18.668
But the education that the guys get in terms of football is second to none.
00:35:19.018 --> 00:35:19.804
Second to none.
00:35:19.804 --> 00:35:26.945
What do you think that maybe young keepers get right to do that the previous goalkeeper generations were weaker with or didn't get?
00:35:27.244 --> 00:35:38.250
I think now if, I would've been a goalie in the system now and you are at the right club with the right coaches, I think the whole package that you get to be successful is you.
00:35:38.255 --> 00:35:42.094
You can, if you fail, 'cause you're not good enough.
00:35:42.364 --> 00:35:45.514
But I don't talk, normally in that language.
00:35:45.605 --> 00:35:49.565
I always say you'll find your level because your level's, your level.
00:35:49.775 --> 00:36:00.170
But the tools that you're given, if you get to a category one academy, so nutrition, sports science, psychology, education, football, education, coaching.
00:36:01.038 --> 00:36:05.628
You, can't finish that programme and say that you've not been given an opportunity.
00:36:05.927 --> 00:36:06.168
Yeah.
00:36:06.467 --> 00:36:11.748
And that's why I said that you don't necessarily fail, but that level may be too much for you.
00:36:11.807 --> 00:36:16.188
So you naturally will fall down, but you will find your level.
00:36:16.668 --> 00:36:25.007
And when you find your level and you get used to playing and getting your foot on the grass again, you can obviously climb the ladder again.
00:36:25.007 --> 00:36:25.038
Climb that again.
00:36:25.338 --> 00:36:28.398
How, bravery is such a big thing that we talk about.
00:36:29.027 --> 00:36:38.628
And at certain level at grassroots, it's quite hard to talk about bravery because you can tell a kid to be brave all they want, but unless, they're ready to be brave or they've got it in them to be brave.
00:36:39.228 --> 00:36:40.128
That's hard.
00:36:40.637 --> 00:36:44.597
Is there a way to coach bravery without No, I'll be very brutal on this.
00:36:44.597 --> 00:36:46.007
There, there probably isn't.
00:36:46.007 --> 00:36:53.237
You can obviously put 1,001 drills on and for anybody who's gonna watch this camera, I'll show you a prime example of it.
00:36:53.717 --> 00:37:00.467
The young goal, who does what I'm gonna show in a second, or the goal who's 36 and does it or 26 and does it.
00:37:00.648 --> 00:37:04.217
So if I'm coming for a spread or a block and I do that Yeah.
00:37:04.277 --> 00:37:09.268
Whether I'm 8 18, 28, 38, I'm never getting that out of that kid.
00:37:09.568 --> 00:37:09.717
Yeah.
00:37:10.018 --> 00:37:10.197
Yeah.
00:37:10.197 --> 00:37:16.557
You can go into softball practice and repetition of softball practice so it doesn't hurt.
00:37:16.557 --> 00:37:21.478
And you sometimes can use the big yoga balls and all, there's so many tools.
00:37:21.478 --> 00:37:22.978
Stand behind the fence or Yeah.
00:37:23.007 --> 00:37:23.697
Whatever.
00:37:24.478 --> 00:37:26.188
But you cannot imprint that.
00:37:26.458 --> 00:37:40.094
And the best goalie who confronts that 1v1 situation or that 1v1 standing situation and boom, and that head stays like that fixed and you produce a biggie shape, you can, but stay there.
00:37:40.545 --> 00:37:42.644
I don't think that's something the coach can coach.
00:37:42.735 --> 00:37:42.945
Yeah.
00:37:43.485 --> 00:37:44.744
That's my honest belief in that.
00:37:45.315 --> 00:37:52.121
And there's a million practices you can try, but the guy who wants to go, or the guy who wants to go, that's in you.
00:37:52.871 --> 00:37:53.052
Yeah.
00:37:53.081 --> 00:37:56.561
But the goalie who turns his head is not gonna get very far.
00:37:57.188 --> 00:38:00.998
it's interesting Now, I think aggression comes with age, right?
00:38:00.998 --> 00:38:01.007
Yes.
00:38:01.177 --> 00:38:10.027
attacking the ball, attacking the players being, but the bravery one's an interesting one and it, I like, I don't think it's a, reflection on them as a person.
00:38:10.333 --> 00:38:11.288
it doesn't mean they're not brave.
00:38:11.347 --> 00:38:11.918
No.
00:38:12.007 --> 00:38:14.019
But it's a, it's something psych, it's primary.
00:38:14.409 --> 00:38:14.860
It's psych.
00:38:14.875 --> 00:38:15.625
Yeah, for sure.
00:38:15.625 --> 00:38:15.804
Yeah.
00:38:16.014 --> 00:38:17.454
And not everybody can do it.
00:38:17.485 --> 00:38:17.664
Yeah.
00:38:17.784 --> 00:38:20.394
And that's not to say that you're not gonna get to a good level.
00:38:20.425 --> 00:38:20.635
Yeah.
00:38:21.505 --> 00:38:24.054
But very, best at the very top.
00:38:25.255 --> 00:38:25.795
Thrive on it.
00:38:25.795 --> 00:38:25.945
Thrive.
00:38:26.394 --> 00:38:26.755
Yeah.
00:38:27.505 --> 00:38:27.655
Yeah.
00:38:28.494 --> 00:38:31.554
So coming down to the last few questions now, Dave.
00:38:31.617 --> 00:38:40.706
What should, what do you think parents need to understand about the goalkeeper journey for a young grassroots kid and their kid's got talent or they think they've got talent and they're ready to support them.
00:38:40.766 --> 00:38:50.456
What's you have to support and nurture that talent, again, like we said, you could send little Joe out and he might want to be out there 7 days a week, 2 sessions.
00:38:50.487 --> 00:38:52.226
That's not necessarily right either.
00:38:52.226 --> 00:39:01.297
I think, I am a parent myself, but, the family structure's different for me.
00:39:01.297 --> 00:39:04.407
They love football, but they're never gonna be footballers.
00:39:06.027 --> 00:39:07.077
it's slightly different.
00:39:07.137 --> 00:39:14.157
What I don't like seeing is parents at the back of the goal screaming, shouting, dictating what happens.
00:39:14.277 --> 00:39:20.097
' cause the goalie's got to have his natural talent and he's gotta play the game or she's got to play the game.
00:39:20.456 --> 00:39:24.117
And ultimately when they find their level, they're gonna play the game.
00:39:24.117 --> 00:39:25.286
You can't play it for him.
00:39:25.617 --> 00:39:29.637
I think the best thing you can be is supportive and nurture that talent.
00:39:29.967 --> 00:39:34.677
And ultimately at points you have to be honest and open about what's happened and what's not happened.
00:39:35.362 --> 00:39:41.666
But ultimately the arm around the shoulder is always better than the digging the ribs.
00:39:42.086 --> 00:39:42.536
For sure.
00:39:43.197 --> 00:39:43.467
Yeah.
00:39:44.606 --> 00:39:46.317
Don't, spoil the fun of the game for Yeah.
00:39:46.556 --> 00:39:48.387
Look, football, we should all love it.
00:39:48.447 --> 00:40:01.016
And if you can go and be like emi Martinez and playing the last World Cup final and produce a save like that and have the enjoyment on his face, you imagine what he were like when he were 8 and they were doing exactly the same.
00:40:01.317 --> 00:40:02.697
It shouldn't change.
00:40:02.757 --> 00:40:10.827
Even though the enormity of the task is what it is, you are still on that field for that first time smelling the grass.
00:40:11.186 --> 00:40:14.996
And if you can take that through with you, I think it'll serve you in good stead.
00:40:15.297 --> 00:40:23.067
I must admit that the image of emi climbing the goal mouth onto the top, unsuccessfully climbing his boots into the net and trying to climb.
00:40:23.306 --> 00:40:31.407
Do you know what, a what an unbridled, just natural Emi moment like that epitomises why he does what he does.
00:40:31.407 --> 00:40:34.197
Yeah, because the joy was just, you can't take that and that's why you do it.
00:40:34.197 --> 00:40:35.516
That's hours and hours.
00:40:35.817 --> 00:40:38.126
And when you talked about what, do you do?
00:40:38.367 --> 00:40:41.967
That's Pilates, that's yoga, that's stretching, that's flexibility.
00:40:42.237 --> 00:40:43.436
None of them things we see.
00:40:43.646 --> 00:40:45.567
Yeah, that's off the field work.
00:40:45.567 --> 00:40:50.157
Like most of this stuff is to be the best example you can be.
00:40:50.438 --> 00:40:58.148
For a young keeper who's not currently in an academy, what advice would you give them about staying in the game and keeping that door open?
00:40:58.507 --> 00:41:01.088
Look, listen, you have to keep that door open.
00:41:01.148 --> 00:41:13.807
And if you are in a games programme, somebody will eventually see you and word spreads pretty quickly when there's any talent, whether you're right back, left back, central half or your goalie word spreads in any community.
00:41:15.277 --> 00:41:30.157
and you can't lose your self-belief'cause I am a firm believer that you will find your level and there is always a pivotal moment in any footballer's career where you ask them if there were sat here at any of them, where there's a moment something happens for him.
00:41:31.297 --> 00:41:33.248
So you've always gotta be ready for that moment.
00:41:33.728 --> 00:41:36.637
And if you are ready for that moment, you'll give yourself the best chance.
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.869
And lastly, bringing it back to your idols.
00:41:39.869 --> 00:41:45.989
So Ray Clements, Peter Shilton, if we were to pick them up and drop 'em in today's modern game, how do you think they'd cope?
00:41:46.297 --> 00:41:50.047
I think Peter, physically in the Premier League would find it pretty tough.
00:41:50.567 --> 00:41:53.677
Ray had got a bigger stature for sure.
00:41:55.927 --> 00:41:58.896
but ultimately they never played with the ball at the feet, did they?
00:41:58.927 --> 00:42:02.916
So it would be very, hard to judge on them.
00:42:03.367 --> 00:42:07.099
But in their generation, these two guys were phenomenal.
00:42:07.746 --> 00:42:11.047
And ultimately sport changes and it moves on.
00:42:11.586 --> 00:42:13.867
So it's hard to bring'em into our bubble.
00:42:14.137 --> 00:42:18.726
They were at the top of their tree in their prime, in their generation.
00:42:19.146 --> 00:42:21.186
And would they be able to keep goal today?
00:42:21.726 --> 00:42:22.746
Of course, yes.
00:42:23.166 --> 00:42:24.606
But it'd be very, difficult for 'em.
00:42:26.496 --> 00:42:27.697
Be interesting, I'd love to see it.
00:42:27.996 --> 00:42:28.266
Yeah.
00:42:29.257 --> 00:42:30.666
We need a time machine or something.
00:42:30.666 --> 00:42:31.867
Yeah, I'd love to see that.
00:42:33.157 --> 00:42:34.447
that's the end of the questions for today.
00:42:34.567 --> 00:42:38.317
Dave, I really appreciate you taking the time to come down and have a chat with us.
00:42:38.376 --> 00:42:38.677
No, really.
00:42:38.677 --> 00:42:39.157
Thank you very much.
00:42:39.157 --> 00:42:39.876
Really enjoyed it.
00:42:39.876 --> 00:42:40.987
Thank you so much.
00:42:41.317 --> 00:42:41.677
Brilliant.
00:42:42.097 --> 00:42:43.717
And I'll see you again for the next episode.
00:42:43.717 --> 00:42:44.347
Take care.
00:42:44.407 --> 00:42:44.766
Bye-Bye.
00:42:44.916 --> 00:43:05.226
So welcome back for the EVOGK community questions where we do a bonus session with each guest for the podcast and we dive a little bit deeper into, things that directly impact on the EVOGK goalkeepers, Dave, if a young keeper wants to stand out at one of the Evo camps that you are running, what would impress you the most?
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The thing that impresses me the most is the ones that really engage with the coaches.
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And you are not guaranteed to perform well in every session, but if you can engage and even ask a question if somebody in your group does something really well, realise why they've done something well.
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And on the opposite side, if something's not gone quite so well try and educate yourself within it or ask the coaches as to why, because that's how you're gonna learn and develop by watching others succeed and fail and ultimately trying to put that into your own game.
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But the best way to learn is to engage with the coaches, for sure.
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Yeah.
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I guess it starts with self-awareness and knowing when I've made a mistake or I've done something well, and then learning from that then moves into watching what others are doing.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And I think that's a big thing on these camps because obviously when it's your turn and you are in, you are on the stage, you're engaged.
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what's difficult on these camps depend on numbers and age groups for sure is the drifting at the side.
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Yeah.
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But they don't realise that if they could really get the focus on what's happening with somebody else and when the coach is trying to break that down, that's when they'd learn even more.
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Question number two then.
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What are three habits every young goalkeeper should build before they worry about playing like the pros?
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I would never worry about playing like the pros because you cannot, it's great to have role models and idols, but every goalie is built differently for sure.
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You have to find your own way.
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So what I don't want is 20 robots in a line that are all the same, because if you're all the same, you're either all gonna be number ones or you're all gonna be out the game.
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You have to find a way.
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But I, I think for sure when you come to a camp or training you, put your own personality on the job, but your technical work and approach to your work has got to be flaws.
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Effort and authenticity.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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They are non-negotiables.
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If I were running EVOGK which interestingly leads nicely into question three, which is how can a young goalkeeper then become more coachable without losing their own personality?
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Because it's easy to just become a yes machine, right?
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Yeah.
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But like the best ones, you can see the edge with 'em.
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You can see the edge with 'em.
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they might give you the nod, they might just look at you in a certain way, but that's years of coaching experience from my, time in the game.
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But you don't want the nodding dogs.
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You want the ones who are going to challenge you because that's what makes me a better coach and I know that will make them a better goalie.
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The goalie just agrees with everything you say.
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Whether they're 8 or 38, no chance of having any effect.
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The one who challenges the coach right now, I've gotta make you better.
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Now I've gotta make my sessions better.
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And if you put as a coach, all them things together, that kid is only gonna flourish.
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Last question then, Dave.
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What's one thing that you wish every young keeper understood before they went into a serious training session?
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That it matters.
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And I take that because you never know when the last one is for whatever reason.
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That's powerful.
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I like that.
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I like that.
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Dave, it's been an absolute privilege.
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Thank you very much for joining us.
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Oh, good.
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I've enjoyed it.
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I've enjoyed it.
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I hope you've enjoyed it as well.
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And I'll catch you on the next episode.
