Deep Dive: Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?

WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to Camp Icons.
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I'm Nick.
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And I'm Liz.
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Oh, in it art.
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It is a bit art.
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It's quite warm, isn't it?
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We're very warm.
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We're very warm.
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We're in Liz's spare room and we've had to shut the window because her neighbours are in the car, then we're dedicated to making this podcast at least listenable.
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Well, yes.
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That much we can promise.
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This week we're looking at something that is, I would say, almost notoriously camp.
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Ooh, it is notorious, yeah.
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It's regularly features on sort of most camp films, most camp performances.
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We are watching Whatever Happened to Baby Jane.
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So, whatever happened to Baby Jane.
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Yes, very excited to watch this.
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It stars two Beamoths of Old Hollywood.
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I'm sure they'd love that you referred to them as that.
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We've got Joan Crawford and we've got Is it Bette or is it Betty?
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It is Betty Davis.
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Betty Davis.
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And she apparently would get annoyed because British people would always try and say Bet.
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Right.
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And it is definitely Betty.
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I don't want her annoyed at me.
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No, no, no.
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She'd be annoyed from beyond the grave, yeah.
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Yes, I uh I wouldn't like to be on the wrong side of Betty Davis.
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The problem with Betty Davis is whenever I say the name Betty, I just think of some mothers do have them.
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I was gonna go say you go a bit Frank Spencer.
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A bit Frank Spencer, yeah, which I don't think gives her the respect that she would wish to command.
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No.
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All Betty.
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They certainly, as two performers, are even outside of this film, I'm terrified of both.
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Yes.
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So when they're trying to be scary, I'm genuinely scared watching this.
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So before we even go into this, they had quite a long-standing rivalry.
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Yes.
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They were not fans of each other.
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No, because of course, being like both very successful stars, they're often, I guess, like up for the same you know, they they're they're both trying to be the biggest star ever, I guess.
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And so they're rivals.
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Yes, they're absolutely rivals, and they were very happy to sort of sling some mud in the press, I think.
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Yeah, I think people just did that better.
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Um they did.
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It might be a bit too early to say this, but there was they were gonna star in sort of an unofficial follow-up to this film together.
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Oh right.
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It was called Hush Hush, Sweet Charlotte.
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And Joan ended up not doing it, and they got Olivia de Haviland.
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De Haviland, yeah.
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De Haviland in to do that.
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And Joan said of the casting, I'm so glad she's replacing me.
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She needs the work.
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That's wonderful.
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Yeah, great stuff.
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I mean, and that just sort of that's just the tip of the iceberg, really.
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But that's they were two very formidable women.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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That comes across.
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Yes, yes, it does.
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So whatever happened to Baby Jane, should we uh should we dive right in?
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Yeah, well firstly, I was I wanted to like say one of the things I knew about this is that it was uh classified as a certain type of film.
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Yes.
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So you could call it a horror film or a psychological thriller, something like that.
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But it's also known known for starting the genre known as psychobiddy.
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Yes.
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Which is I I guess is offensive.
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It is.
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It's not as offen well it's probably equally offensive as the other sort of term that I read for it, which was the hag genre.
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Ha hagsploitation, I've heard.
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Hag exploitation.
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Yes, I've heard that as well.
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So there's all kind of offensive names to sort of say this is a film which we put women who we would usually consider too old to see on screen.
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Yeah.
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Which is is crazy as a like a thing.
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They were they were incredibly like big stars from like the 30s.
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This is 1962.
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Yes.
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So this is sort of like their career has died down, and this like This was supposed to be like a regeneration.
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A regeneration for them.
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And I think it was, I think it was quite successful.
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Yeah, definitely.
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They definitely both made more films after this.
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Yes.
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Um But I do think it's really funny that they they tr they uh the the brains of the sixties are trying to classify this genre and they're like, what can we call it?
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Psycho-biddy.
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Yeah.
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That's I mean, it is offensive on in one way, but it's also quite fun to me.
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Like if you told me we're gonna watch some psycho biddy films, I'm like, I'm sad, I'm waiting.
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Let's watch them.
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But I think it it instantly this leans us into camp because we expect an older lady or certainly at that time to be like a nice old grandmother.
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Yeah.
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Or the helpful maid or Yes, we have a certain like n you know, niche that they fall into.
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Yes.
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We don't expect the kind of full range of performances from an older woman.
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No.
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And this is definitely unexpected.
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If people haven't seen it, they might have seen little bits of it.
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I think you can't get the full effect from whatever you've seen, copied or spoofed or whatever.
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When you actually watch it, I think it's genuinely powerful like performances.
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I'm gonna drop my first truth bomb on you now.
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Okay, go on.
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I didn't really enjoy it.
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Oh no!
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I'm devastated.
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There are things about it that I like, don't get me wrong.
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Right.
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As a complete film, there are things I do not enjoy about it.
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Oh my goodness, I'm genuinely surprised.
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There are places where I do not think it's a well-made film.
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Oh and we'll we'll get to them.
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I disagree.
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But I I think when I explain them to you, you you might come around.
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You might not, because I don't think I will.
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You're very strong-willed.
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I think to be honest, the f the way it starts is my least favourite part.
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Fair.
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Because we have to go back to a flashback, essentially.
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Or we set things up.
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This is this is one of my issues straight out of the game.
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We don't get one flashback.
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We have to go to two different flashbacks before we get to the story.
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Yes, that's true.
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Just sort of it sort of overinflates it in a way at the start, I think.
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Overinflates is an interesting choice of words because I think it's deliberately inflating.
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Fair.
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I so we we go back to it starts 1917.
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It starts in 1917 with a child crying at a jack in the box.
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Yes.
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So we're meeting child star Baby Jane Hudson.
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She's sold out.
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Yes.
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She's a big star in a sort of like vaudeville way.
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And she does this very I wrote precocious tap dancing child.
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Yeah.
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A very sort of annoying child act.
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It's a bit Shirley Temple, it's it's a bit um It has that kind of like Baby June.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Sacharin sweet kind of thing.
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Where she they the the crowd are they're in love with her, all these kids and mums and whatever, and they beg for her her song that she always does, I've written a letter to Daddy.
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Yes.
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Which is it's oh it's it's diabolical this song.
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We've also got in the wings oh yes, just to set up both of the sisters, we've got a very, very severe looking brunette child.
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Yes.
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Looking at Baby Jane quite judgingly from the wings, and who I assume is the mum.
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They ne I don't think they ever actually specify that she's never talk about the mum, but yeah, the the the the mum it must be is standing there with Blanche.
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We don't get to know it's Blanche or have any dialogue from her really at the start.
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She's just but I do think she gives good Joan Crawford face, that young actress.
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She does.
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She's very good at carrying the the Crawford The overshadowed sister.
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You know, she she does really well.
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Would you like to give a rendition of I've written a letter to Daddy?
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I wouldn't.
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Um The thing that struck me this is heaven, but Daddy's dead in the song, just in case she haven't.
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The song is coming out amplified.
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Yep.
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But she has absolutely no microphone.
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No, it I think it's quite clear that that's not a child singer.
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It's like an adult doing a voice.
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Yes, and it it's it's credited as the Right.
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Someone's credit is the singing voice of child Baby Jane.
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But what we've what we've set up is that she's this huge star, yes, Baby Jane.
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And they all love her for her sweet personality, but then when she comes off stage, she demands, she throws a tantrum demanding an ice cream.
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Yes.
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And then In front of the public.
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In front of the public, and there's mothers very disapproving that my child spoke like that, I'm, you know, spanker or whatever.
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Very disapproving from the crowd.
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And um we also But the the dad, who's part of the act somehow, tries to let peace make, and he's gonna get the ice cream.
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Oh, it is very hot, you know.
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Yeah.
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He offers one to Blanche, the quiet sister who we haven't heard from, and she very severely says, I don't want anything.
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Yes.
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So that's your two sisters' personalities set up.
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And then he shouts at her for not wanting anything.
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Yes, that's all that's also set up.
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We also in this sequence first see the creepy doll Baby Jane.
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Yes.
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So they're selling dolls of Baby Jane as merchandise.
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Which are life size.
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Life size and terrifying.
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Yes.
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I I think the guy selling them says that they're genuine hair.
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Oh.
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Which I don't want to think about where they got that hair.
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No, I don't like that.
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Oh no.
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I don't really like that they're selling like dolls that they say are exact replicas of a child, but I don't think we should go too far down that.
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I no, I don't think we should either.
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They're selling them to children at this.
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Yes.
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This this portion of Flashback concludes with Blanche saying, I won't forget.
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Yes.
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In quite a menacing Just so you get it, just so you know she won't forget.
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Because I think there's there's some suggestion there that she's gonna be a bigger star, which we don't know why.
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In this bit, no.
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No.
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There's no sort of indication of she doesn't have any star quality.
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Absolutely not.
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But the next part 1935 is we're going into like Hollywood now and we get a clip from an actual Betty Davis movie that men are slatic.
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Yes.
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Well it's it's like it's you know from the 30s, so it's genuinely Betty Davis when she's younger.
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They they're saying that she's doing a terrible accent, yeah, that her acting is terrible.
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I I don't think it is, it's not a particularly memorable scene from one of her movies.
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No, uh it makes me wonder how Betty Davis felt about this.
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Do you know what?
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I think she was a pro and she just she probably slated her own movies and she's like, Yeah, take that one, that one's terrible.
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Maybe.
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I can imagine.
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Because she would have been making so many films.
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Yes, this is true.
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She's part of the studio system.
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You know, she would have been like, Oh, I made four pictures that year, that was a terrible one.
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Don't you have that one?
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That's fine.
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But it's it's it's not it's not noticeably bad, I don't think.
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No, I didn't think so.
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No.
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We've just got to set up the idea that she's not a good actress.
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Yes.
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And that Blanche is a good actress.
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Yes, so things have fate has twisted around.
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Who has a contract clause that for every picture Blanche makes, they have to make a film with Baby Jane.
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They're still calling her Baby Jane.
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Yes.
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Even though she's an adult woman.
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Yes.
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That does seem like an unlikely clause.
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Yes.
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I don't know who is agreeing to that clause because films aren't cheap.
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No, and famously at that time, like women were quite like the actresses were quite exploited, and you know, even though um lots of them got like rich and famous, they didn't have as much power behind the scenes and whatever.
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But it it works for the the the movie.
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It works for this movie.
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It has to it has to work for the and I I do also wonder if there's it's sort of a commentary on how good Blanche was.
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Yes.
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And how much sway she may have had.
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Because I can't imagine she went straight in and went, Oh, you have to take my sister too.
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Yeah, I think they're trying to really set up the idea that Blanche is the biggest star possible.
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That's why she's got the sort of power to have that clause.
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We don't actually see Joan Crawford at at this point, so we don't know what Blanche's acting is like at this point.
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No.
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We only see them being rude about baby Jane and sort of yeah, being annoyed that they have to keep moot making these pictures.
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Yes.
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Um and so they they they I I end that bit.
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I think they say they're gonna talk to Blanche about changing this.
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Yes.
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Right?
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So then we get a very important scene, which is very important.
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One of my favourite parts.
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Right.
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Which is the in inverted commas accident.
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The accident, yes.
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So we're in a car, and it's obvious that the two sisters are in the car because we've got two women who are dressed all dressed up.
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But we don't see which is which, so we don't see who is driving.
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No.
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And we just see lots of shots of feet.
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Feet, yeah.
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Yes.
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But what I love about it is it's shot in a way that you don't shoot things anymore.
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No.
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Which is like the the the depth of the shot.
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You can see these sparkly shoes stepping on the gas or the brake or whatever.
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You've got this like velvet wrap of the like round the cuff as as the hand changes the gear.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:40.159
It's like it zooms you in on these little bits to go, oh, we're telling you a story, but we're not gonna tell you all of it yet.
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:41.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:42.799
I love this type of thing.
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:47.039
So basically it's very sort of Agatha Christie murder mystery.
00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:48.080
It is a mystery.
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.879
Slash Midsummer Murders, where you get the shot of a gloved hand.
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.440
I think Midsummer Murders do do this, yeah.
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:59.600
But I think it is from like that kind of noir sort of time.
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:04.000
Um and yeah, I love I love that they do it like this.
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:34.080
So we we know that Blanche's got this sister in tow and that and that, you know, Jane, baby Jane is not as successful as her sister, so there's resentment on both sides, so we don't I think at that time when we see the accident, there's a thought in my mind that it might be Blanche trying to bump off Jane because this is like her kid sister is like a millstone round her neck, but then actually it could also be Jane because she's resentful of her success.
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:35.679
Yes.
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:43.360
So at that point we don't see, we just see one of them deliberately drives into the other one.
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:44.080
Yeah.
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.799
And disappears from the car.
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:47.679
Disappears.
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:49.679
Yeah, they're no longer sat in the driver's seat.
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:51.679
Once the crash has happened, they're gone, they're out.
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.679
We get crashed out gates.
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:54.240
Yes.
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.960
And we don't know we don't know how badly anybody's hurt at this point.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:00.799
No, we we do get the creepy doll come back with a caved-in forehead.
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:04.399
Oh, again, I love this because the credits fly out at this point.
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:04.799
Yes.
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.840
They fly out of the cracked skull of the baby Jane doll.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.039
Yeah, there's not a person to be seen once the crash has happened.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:11.440
No.
00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:11.840
No.
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:13.519
No, it's all a mystery.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.200
Then we come to the present.
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.679
Oh well, it says yesterday.
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:21.600
Yesterday really made me laugh.
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:21.840
Yeah.
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:22.960
As a time.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.480
Because it's not yesterday.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:28.000
No, it's not yesterday.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:31.279
Um I'm watching this film, you know, so many years later.
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:32.720
Yesterday's really funny.
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.200
You don't I don't think you see that now, yesterday.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.960
You don't, but also why are you so Why does it have to be yesterday?
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:39.759
Why not today?
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:40.399
I don't know.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.279
Because it doesn't I guess the film doesn't do anything with that.
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.919
But the film seems to take place over more than one day.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:46.879
Oh, absolutely.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.039
It takes place over about a week, I think.
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:49.840
Yeah.
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:54.320
Right, then we get to my first badly made film, Claxon.
00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:55.360
Okay, right.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:02.159
Uh a woman enters her house, and she and her daughter do a lot of exposition.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:03.600
Yes, okay.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.160
They're neighbours of Blanche and Joan.
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.400
No, Blanche is Joan.
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.039
They're neighbours of Blanche and Jane.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:11.680
Yep.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:17.759
And we hear that Jane caused the accident injuring Blanche.
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:18.559
Yeah.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.519
And it's just an overblown scene of talking.
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:30.000
If you would sh all I need, all I need is a shot of Blanche in the wheelchair.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:30.880
Yeah, then I know.
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:33.039
And I've got everything that this woman says.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:33.920
Yes.
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.240
I I I hear you.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:36.640
Yeah.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:42.240
And to be honest, in this film, the side characters do do a lot of exposition.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:43.519
It's not the only time this happens.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.559
No, it's not.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:55.519
And these characters are not particularly like the nosy neighbour, the mum, comes back a few times, but the daughter is almost like totally, you know, not needed.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:56.079
No.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:59.839
I believe the daughter was played by the real life daughter of the director.
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.160
No, it's Betty Davis' daughter.
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:02.799
Is it?
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:03.920
Yeah, I'm sure it is.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.480
I'm sure it's Betty Davis' actual daughter in it.
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.880
There's some sort of nepotism connection.
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:14.240
And it absolutely acts.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:15.119
No.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.440
But also she doesn't need to.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:19.039
Because also she's go it's.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.079
Because the dialogue is terrible.
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:20.400
Yeah.
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:20.720
Yeah.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.559
No, I I do hear what you're saying.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:22.960
Yeah.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:27.359
At this point, I have to say, I really like bad movies.
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:28.079
Fair.
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:29.119
I like bad movies.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.599
And this is the thing, I'm not sat here going, I will never watch this film again.
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.799
There are just some things I have issues with.
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:37.519
I I get it.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:42.000
There's a there's a much bigger topic that we will come to that I have an issue with.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:42.640
Okay.
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:43.759
Right.
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:59.200
So one of the things that we get in the exposition, apart from the the accident, is which wasn't an accident, is the he this week they're they're showing on TV all of Joan Crawford's character, Blanche, her old movies.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:18:59.519
Yes.
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.759
So this is like a a renaissance for her because you know lots of people are watching them on TV.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:10.000
And you know, at this time things weren't like shown on immediately on TV, so it's years potentially since people watch them.
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:10.400
Yes.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.240
And so they're doing this big thing, and there's obviously a lot of talk about it.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:22.960
Because we see people ask Jane, you know, like the the neighbour says, Oh, we've been enjoying our movies, and later on in the bank, I think they say, Oh, we've been watching the movies or whatever.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:23.279
Yeah.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:30.400
So, in terms of the resentment between the two sisters, this week when they're showing them is like a key time.
00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:31.279
Yes.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.759
And we should say we've joined them at the right time.
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:34.319
Yes.
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:41.359
Blanche, played by Joan Joan Crawford, cannot go out, so she is unaware of what people are reacting.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.880
She's watching her own films.
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:44.480
Yes, so she's in a wheelchair.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.279
She's in a wheelchair.
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:46.400
We'll get that out of the way.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:46.880
Yes.
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:52.079
Um, and for some reason she lives on the first floor.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:52.799
Upstairs.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:53.279
Yes.
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:53.920
Yes.
00:19:54.400 --> 00:20:03.680
I would venture she has enough money to convert a downstairs room into a bedroom for herself just to make life a bit easier, but it's so the film can happen.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:09.599
But also because her sister, Betty Davis, Baby Jane, is controlling her.
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:11.839
Yes, she is.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:12.559
Yeah.
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:18.640
But if Blanche had just converted a downstairs room, it would be a lot more difficult.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:19.519
Yes.
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:21.440
For for Baby Jane to control her.
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.720
I know I see what you're saying, but I think it I It is so the film can happen.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:38.880
Um you know, and I don't want to I I really don't want to sit here and pick everything apart because I think Well, I also think it's actually it speaks to like the sort of life they anticipated people who are disabled having.
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:39.359
True.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.599
In that, you know, that her her bed has got the things so that she can pull herself up and whatever.
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:49.839
And they didn't they they sort of had a a lower expectation for what you were going to be able to achieve.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.519
She's she's obviously like I I think we would say like paraplegic or whatever.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.119
She has no she cannot stand or or move her legs.
00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:57.599
No.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:04.960
So therefore, there's kind of like yes, I agree it would be better if she had a downstairs room.
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:12.799
But like I think part of it is that decisions have been made around her that put her in a place of control.
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:13.279
Yes.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.599
And her disability is is part of it.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.960
Next up, the campometer is going ding ding ding.
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:19.279
Yes.
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:22.799
Because we first see adult Betty Davis.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:23.599
Yes.
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:27.119
Who What did you think about that?
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.279
She is overpainted.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:30.000
Yes.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.079
And she's got ringlets.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:32.720
Mm-hmm.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.279
I put like a Hollywood Miss Haversham.
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:37.359
Yes, it is a bit like that.
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:43.519
She's very much styled after the baby Jane that we see in the opening flashback.
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.559
Yeah, it's kind of at this point, it's like she hasn't ever let go of that.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.359
She's not fully in costume, but she just hasn't ever let go of Baby Jane.
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:58.640
And yeah, the overpainting on the face, the the makeup is horrific.
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:07.519
But you know, I've got A soft spot for older women who paint their face like like uh six inches thick.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:09.440
I really have a soft spot for them.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:13.920
I adore what she's doing with her face, don't get me wrong.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:25.680
She's great, and I think she's doing what uh I I I couldn't actually think of the word because I was like, she's stomping, but she's stomping in a way where she is also dragging her feet.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:26.079
Yeah.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.720
It's like she has the whole body is like, ugh, I hate this life.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.200
The second you see her, you know everything.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.279
I she's so good in this film.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:44.480
And I think one of the first things she says when we see we finally see Blanche and Jane interact, the first thing she says is, Then you're an idiot.
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.720
So just if anyone was confused about where the relationship is.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.079
Well, my next note is Jane isn't pleasant.
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.880
No, she's not a nice person.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:02.880
And when Blanche buzzes, she's got a buzzer system within the house to call her uh she says you miserable bitch, to the buzzer.
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:14.720
These are the things I like because it's like she's fully like pissed off, cannot be bothered, yeah, hates looking after this sister, hates everything.
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:15.599
Oh, it's so good.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:20.640
And as we've said, it leans into that camp of subverting the idea of the nice old grandmother.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:21.119
Yeah.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.480
Because she has got no time for you.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:25.279
Yeah.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:31.039
She wants to live her life her own way, and basically fuck anyone.
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:33.440
Yeah, and I think it gets in the way.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:52.000
You could write a whole essay about how our notions of like women play into we want this caring, maternal kind of stereotype, and because she's so anti-that, she's so not caring, yeah, that uh that putting her in a horror movie and saying that this is this is your baddie, basically, is just so fun.
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.160
It's great, I really enjoy it.
00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:00.559
And one of the things that she that throughout the whole movie she's doing is bringing Blanche her meals.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:00.880
Yes.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:17.279
So she has this huge tray that she's going up the stairs with this huge silver tray with whatever you know, plates and teacups and whatever on it, and she's stomping up there, and various times she brings like things, it sort of changes depending how badly the relationship is going.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:27.519
But the the image of her clattering up there with her heels is just so it's not the image of a torturer, but at the same time, you I was really scared of her.
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:30.400
I think I know what this is.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:39.359
It is that the vision we are being shown is opulence with this figure that is decaying.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.279
It is decaying, I was gonna say, yeah, it doesn't.
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:49.839
So it's it's the kind of incongruity of her to the rest of the surroundings is like she doesn't fit there.
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:50.559
Mmm.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.160
And so it does give you that uneasy feeling.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.160
Like age is a form of decay.
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:07.839
So the fact that she's still got this notion of herself when she was like six or whatever, which is informing how she wants to look, ages are even more than just normal aging.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.119
So she she looks such a horrifying version of herself.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:12.400
Yeah.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.599
Elvira the Maid turns up, and then we've got more exposition.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:18.720
Yes.
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:24.079
And this is quite a big long exposition scene that I felt could have done with some edits.
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:25.920
Perhaps, yeah.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.519
I really like Elvira the Maid.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.759
I love Elvira, I think she's great.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.480
She's got a great she she's a great actress.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:42.559
She is the one, because she's going into this property and interacting with them, she's probably the only person we see Blanche's character interact with, really.
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.880
And yeah, she's the one who you kind of want to be the saviour.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:26:04.400
She actually has a clue as to like what baby Jane is like, and so you're kind of always willing her to to save the day, but she is the maid, and so she gets kind of like, you know, short shrift and whatever.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:14.160
And yeah, I think she does she does have to do expositions It all boils down to Blanche is trying to sell the house without Jane knowing, yeah.
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:26.319
Because she wants to be free of Blanche, she doesn't want to know, she wants to be free of Jane, she doesn't want to live with her anymore, and she's going to call the doctor because Jane is in a bad way.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:27.519
Yes.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:34.960
So this is the first time we get this sort of like the doctor being again a figure that can help us.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:41.200
Because I guess Jane's mental health has been bad before.
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:42.079
It sounds like that.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.039
It sounds like well, she's an alcoholic, I think.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:46.640
She's an alcoholic, yes.
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:52.160
And it's it's taken a turn, and we know that it's taken a turn because we are shown a cupboard of empty bottles.
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:52.799
Yes.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:53.279
Yes.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:55.119
That's storytelling for you.
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:55.920
Yes.
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.480
And Elvira's also got some fan mail.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:02.400
Yes, she has, hasn't she?
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:09.599
That she that she shows to Blanche, and it's all been opened, uh, including a letter that was marked personal.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:25.759
So it's kind of to prove because I guess there's some remnant of feeling between the two sisters, so Blanche doesn't want to believe that she's being abused as badly as she is, but uh she's Elvira's trying to prove to her that Jane doesn't have her best interests at heart.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:26.240
Yes.
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:27.680
Like cotton onto this.
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:28.240
Yeah.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:34.880
We then learn that Blanche has put a stop on Baby Jane ordering any more alcohol.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:35.599
Yes.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.319
And that we get quite a bizarre scene.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:39.279
The phone call.
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:45.200
Yeah, the phone call of Betty Davis doing an impression of Blanche.
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:45.680
Yep.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.440
I wrote, now this is camp.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.079
Yes, absolutely, I agree.
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:59.839
I couldn't tell in this one if it was a lip sync or if it was Betty Davis actually doing a voice.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:04.079
There's another one later on where I decided it definitely was a lip sync.
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:05.759
I believe this one is also a lip sync.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:06.000
Yeah.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:16.960
I think every single time they've what they've done is, yeah, Joan Crawford has recorded something in quite a like she does sort of modulate her voice slightly.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:24.640
But yeah, so essentially they overdub Betty Davis so that she's doing an impression, but it's actually Joan Crawford's voice.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:25.039
Yeah.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:27.279
And it and I do think that's camp.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:28.240
It is camp.
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:34.319
I do think it's something that you wouldn't do now, or if you do it now, you do it with the knowledge that it's funny, right?
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:34.799
Yeah.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.000
Not in a serious way.
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.160
Or you do it better.
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.519
Or they yeah, they pro they can probably CGI voices.
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:42.640
I don't know what they can do.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:43.119
Yeah.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:46.000
But it it's fun to me, it's really fun.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.039
I think it's camp because it takes you out of it.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:50.319
Right, yeah, yeah.
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:56.000
But it's like, well, where is this bizarre voice coming from?
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.039
I that's just how they made films.
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:12.160
Like I'm sure there's plenty of other films that do similar things coming out at the time, but it's it certainly does um if you had any inkling of realism I which I'm glad they don't.
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:14.400
No, it's not there anymore.
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:26.480
Yes, so she well, obviously uh Baby Jane is very annoyed that she has not been allowed or that or that uh Blanche has taken steps to try and stop her getting liquor.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:37.119
And so she leaves the phone off the hook, which in case people listening aren't familiar with old fashioned phones, yes, means that the handset that Blanche has upstairs will no longer work.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:37.759
Yes.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:42.720
So she's up there, she used to have the ability to call people, she now can't call out.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:56.640
And we get at this point we get Baby Jane drinking at the piano at the piano, and I've written I've just written the word art because the shots of her are lit so beautifully.
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:57.519
Oh yeah.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:02.400
And it is so like it oh, I think it's absolutely great.
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:08.400
So she's hearing the song that single letter to daddy.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.720
We get the echo of a child's voice coming from a creepy baby Jane doll.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:13.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:20.160
And she's like eyes the doll, and then she takes the bow off of the baby Jane doll and puts it on her own head.
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:20.640
Yeah.
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:26.559
So this is the beginning of her like being totally detached from reality, basically.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.960
And it She's got particularly thick eyeliner and lips.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:32.960
I think it's increased even more.
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:35.759
Yeah, I think she's looking wilder.
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:36.240
Yeah.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:44.559
She and the when I when I'm saying about the lighting, the way she's lit is not glamour lighting, she looks horrifying.
00:30:44.960 --> 00:31:10.319
And she starts reciting this song and the little thing that she used to say as part of the act, and she sort of steps under this light, and she's like she's fully like in this breakdown now, but it's to me, it's it's like it's doing character in such a an extreme way with light and with these you know sort of uh stylised things that I just I love that.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.279
It is camp, but it is definitely horror movie camp rather than camp that we've seen before.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:20.720
Yeah, a lot of the camp that we've watched before has been quote glamorous.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:22.000
Glamorous, yeah.
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.599
Glamour from a different time and age.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:35.200
And this is all quite I say it's stripped back, she's not stripped back, but it's showing you the ugliness underneath what used to be glamour.
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:35.920
Yes.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:45.519
And it's uh yeah, and it's very it is stylised and it's very like silly in a way because she's uh an old woman dressed as a kid or whatever.
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.960
But this this this this is I find her terrifying at this point.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:56.000
Like, this is where I'm like, oh, she could do anything now because she thinks she's six-year-old, you know, on the war path.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.559
She then sees her own reflection screams at it.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:01.119
Yeah.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.319
A really guttural scream.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:04.960
Yep.
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.359
And ignores Blanche's buzzer.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.519
I yes, she does.
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:13.200
But well, not totally, because she uh She goes eventually.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:13.839
Mm.
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:19.119
She goes up to Blanche's room and she sits in a chair that matches the pattern of the dress that she's wearing.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.160
I didn't notice.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:20.960
Did she not?
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:21.759
No, I didn't notice.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:23.680
It's not an identical pattern.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:24.240
Right.
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:31.920
But she sits in the chair, the the upholstery on the chair is patterned, the dress is patterned, and there's certainly the similarities between the two.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:32.640
Yeah.
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.319
And this is a this is a great interaction between the two of them.
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.319
This this is my favourite bits.
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:53.599
Are when you get the two of them getting into it, yeah, and it feels like there's real danger between them, because she's sh basically Baby Jane knows about this plan to sell the house, and she confronts her with it.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:08.160
And uh, you know, Blanche tries telling her that she's only just decided and it's you know all happened recently, but she really points at her and she says, You called him four weeks ago and told him to sell it, and the point scares me.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.079
Like she's so she's so unhinged at this point.
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:14.240
I you do feel like anything could happen with her.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:18.640
Which it does, because she's clattered up there with the tea tray again.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:22.160
Um we've already established she has to bring all the meals, yeah.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:29.519
And all that dear Blanche had in her room for a friend was a little budgery car.
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:32.480
Yeah, whose feathers got in her mouth during an earlier scene.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:33.359
They did a little bit.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:34.079
She enjoyed.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:34.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:41.680
But the but Baby Jane had taken her away, taken the budgie away to clean the cage and has now brought back lunch.
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:43.359
She served out that bird.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:50.079
She claiming claiming that the bird got out, and then when you you pull off the closh, it says now the cloch.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:51.759
The budgie's on the lunch.
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:52.160
Yeah.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.839
Closh is a camp, aren't they?
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.799
Yeah, I think cloches are I closhes are going in the camp.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.119
Yeah.
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:59.200
Oh no, no, you may not see your food.
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:00.559
A dramatic reveal.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:01.920
It is a dramatic reveal.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:04.400
I think there's something camp in that.
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.640
Yeah, particularly if it's a bird.
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:07.119
Yes.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:09.599
If you're serving up somebody's own budgery gar.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.920
Yeah, but like at that point, look, what was your reaction to that?
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:16.639
It's difficult because I had seen the film before.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:17.039
Right.
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:19.360
And I remembered that the bird was coming.
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:20.159
Yes.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:26.000
I don't think I was quite as scared as you.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:27.119
Oh, okay.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:29.760
Of any of it, if I'm honest.
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.840
Um I know exactly what you mean.
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:36.960
Like the performances are really horrifying, and you'd never want to meet these people.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.519
Yeah.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:50.480
But I think one of the things that I sort of almost struggled with with the film is that I I don't really watch horror films because I get very easily scared.
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:57.119
And this didn't Honestly, I get so stressed, and I knew that bird was going to be under there.
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.400
Because you know, from the whole thing of oh, the bird got out, the bird got out.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:08.480
You know the bird's gonna be under there, or like you suspect it is, but then when it is, I'm still so like viscerally disgusted by it.
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.079
I was like, oh no.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:23.760
I I hate that she cooked the buttery girl because I I feel that thing of that was her little friend, and you've you've taken it away, and you're you've taken away the phone and you're taking away all these things that like are her links to the outside world.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.159
Do you think she's cooked the bird?
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:26.960
No.
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:29.440
She's just dumped it on there.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:30.800
Right, okay, yeah.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.519
I think she's just killed it, whack, on the table, and then dumped it on there.
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:37.840
Fine, yeah, because I was gonna say it doesn't look cooked.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:38.559
No, no, no.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:38.800
No.
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:39.519
No, no, no.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.119
She's she she served it.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.119
She's served it for lunch, not cooked.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.800
It is pretty horrifying.
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.119
Come on, it's horrifying.
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:54.000
But I think for me it's more it's horrifying from a place of the control that Jane has.
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:55.039
100%.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:56.960
I'm not scared of a bird.
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.000
No, no, I'm scared of baby Jane.
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:00.800
Fair.
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:09.199
But uh even though I say that, yeah, in the next scene, or the next part, I think, Jane's off out into town.
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:10.079
Yes, she is.
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:13.039
And she's dressed up, she's she applies more lipstick.
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:14.400
More lipstick.
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.159
And a beret to leave the house.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.239
A beret with a sparkly brooch on it.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:22.480
And I have to say, I've written down, you know, try to recreate this look.
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.360
Because it looks incredible.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:26.639
Like in a weird way.
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.199
She's got a little love heart painted on her cheek.
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.760
Yes.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:30.239
Yes.
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:31.119
Absolutely.
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.440
Just to go to the bank or whatever.
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:36.639
Oh, right, Halloween.
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:37.119
Yeah.
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.239
We need to do Baby Jane and Blanche.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:41.679
You can be Baby Jane.
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:42.320
Can I?
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:42.719
Yes.
00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:44.159
Oh, 100% then.
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.119
And I'll be the very severe Blanche.
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:48.639
Well, I don't know if I'll go that far.
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:49.519
I'll sit down.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:50.320
You can sit down.
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.360
Yeah, I don't think it's not anymore, is it?
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:54.719
No, no, no, no, no.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:02.960
She goes out, and then Blanche comes out of her room, and we get, and I can't explain why I've written this, it's a camp zoom on the phone.
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:03.599
Yes.
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:04.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:12.800
It's the kind of like trying to tell you that the character is seeing the phone and having a thought about it as it zooms towards it.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:13.280
Yes.
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:29.119
But again, yeah, it is like a s it's a it's a film technique that you don't see much now, but at the time it's like, oh it's sort of I wonder if one of the things that I didn't connect with is that I'm so used to now seeing realism.
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:30.000
Yes.
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.079
And this I'm not saying I like realism necessarily.
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:34.800
No, no, no.
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:41.599
But this is there are sort of places in this where I feel there should be realism and there's not.
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:50.320
Because this is one of those things where I go, you could have just shown me a still shot of the phone, and I would know like I know what you're telling me.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:57.679
Yes, but what you've chosen to do is like an epic zoom into a phone.
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:02.480
I think you're exactly right, because if it was a still shot of the phone, I would like it less.
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:03.039
Yeah.
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.760
Because I'm used to having still shots for everything.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.960
I I want the dramatic zoom, give me a camp zoom.
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:24.800
And I actually was gonna say, because I thought we might skip over this scene, but I wanted to like shout it out because I love this, because we get essentially Blanche on her own, she got nobody else to interact with, thinking about trying to get downstairs to use the phone.
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:29.679
And they do this without her having to say, Oh, rats, I can't get down there.
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:40.800
She she like she prepares herself, so she gets her legs off of the um the little uh you know uh foot stup things, whatever they've got on the wheelchair.
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:41.199
I don't know.
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:42.880
They are called something.
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:44.239
I know, it feels like there's a name.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:46.480
Anyway, you fold them back to get your feet out.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:47.039
Foot rest.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:48.639
Footrest, yeah, she's Maldi.
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:55.679
She's moving her legs like so we sort of physically see that her legs have have no um, you know, feeling or whatever in them.
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.079
She she's thinking about getting downstairs.
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:07.840
You she's kind of we sit the shots tell us that she's summing up the danger to her if she tries to make it downstairs to get to the phone.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:08.960
And I love this.
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:10.960
I love this as a storytelling thing.
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:19.360
She decides not to because obviously she could fall and crack her head open, so she she puts her feet back in and she decides not to.
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:24.239
But I love that they do all of that without dialogue, without like whatever.
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:27.760
We just see the character's thought process, and I think that's great.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:28.719
I love that.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:34.400
Yeah, oh I I mean absolutely compared to opening neighbours exposition scenes, yeah, yeah.
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:36.400
This is what I love.
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:38.000
I know, I know.
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:41.119
So speaking of the neighbour, yeah, we get some jaunty music.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.719
Some of the music choices, not the best, yeah.
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:51.760
The neighbour is out she is outside and and Blanche has bars on her windows.
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:52.239
Yes.
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.280
Which yeah never really get addressed.
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:56.079
No.
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.840
Because that isn't something you need if you're disabled.
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:03.440
I guess then maybe they thought she could fall out if she was near the window.
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.239
I don't know.
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:06.239
Well I don't know.
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:10.320
No, it's 'cause nobody else has we see the other houses, they don't have bars on their windows.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:19.760
Anyway, she decides to write a note because she can like obviously throw that out of the window at this neighbour who's doing some gardening.
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:24.239
Now this this is where I think the film does a great job.
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:24.639
Okay.
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:31.280
Because we cut back to Jane, who's gone to the local paper to place an ad.
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:38.880
She wants uh a pianist to accompany her rehearsals because she's gonna be baby Jane again.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:50.079
And so we're cutting between her there and Blanche writing this note, and I'm screaming at Blanche the whole time, hurry up, hurry up.
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:58.639
Because she's typing on the typewriter and she's being all like formal, and then she has to add a bit on there, and I'm screaming, she's coming back, you have to be quick.
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:01.440
Because everything depends on her not seeing this note.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.440
She writes in there, please don't let my sister see this note.
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:10.559
Yes, and I'm mmm this is This is where we diverge, isn't it?
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:17.440
This I take slight umbrage with the fact that she reads the letter aloud as she's writing it.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.639
Right, okay.
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.760
Because again, you're telling me, not showing me.
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.840
Have you never read a letter aloud after you've um wrote it, written it?
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:26.960
No.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.440
Not when I am working at such hurry.
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.320
She this is my thing, she doesn't hurry enough.
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:42.480
No, please don't tell my sister contents.
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.079
It I know exactly what you mean.
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:51.280
Like I think it I think on this occasion it works well.
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:59.599
There are later occasions where they do a repeat, which we'll get to, which I'm not sure is quite so successful as this one.
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:00.079
Okay.
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:03.119
Um but here's another thing I don't like.
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:03.599
Yeah.
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:05.280
Right?
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:17.440
I'm not sure how big paper aeroplane making was with you know Hollywood starlets of the 30s, but she screws it up into a ball to throw it out there.
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:18.719
It's not aerodynamic enough.
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:19.679
It's not aerodynamic.
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:25.920
But also, how does she know the neighbour wouldn't just see some trash in the street and just throw it straight in the bin?
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:28.880
Yes, I think she's quite desperate.
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:30.320
Yes, that's true.
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:39.920
Um but so yeah, I really wanted her to make a paper aeroplane and throw it to the neighbour, but instead she just screws it up into a ball and then Jane comes home.
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:40.400
Yes.
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:51.599
So the the paper is just sitting there, and again, this is this is stuff that I love because even though I'm frustrated that she didn't know how to make a paper airplane, I'm screaming, oh my god, you know, you can't get it, even though I know what happens in the film.
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.480
I'm like, No, no, no, no, don't get it, don't get it, don't you know.
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:55.679
I don't want Jane to get it.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:58.960
I'm gonna take a moment now for Jane's magnificent brooch.
00:42:59.199 --> 00:42:59.519
Yes.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:02.960
Which is the first time I really saw it was in this scene.
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:12.400
I say broach, it's more of a uh a very large hanging basket.
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:17.760
I mean it's it's gigantic.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.039
It is, yes.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.559
It like a fascinator for your chest.
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:26.960
We both said the same thing when you it's the same thing.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.679
Yeah.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:28.320
Yeah.
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:33.119
She finds the note, she reads the note, and then we have one of my favourite confrontations.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:34.559
Oh, absolutely.
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:35.199
Yeah.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.679
Daddy bought this house for me.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:41.599
You aren't ever gonna sell this house and you aren't ever gonna leave it.
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:45.760
I don't know why I'm doing it as Blanche from Golden Girl.
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.440
Well, it it's completely the wrong blanche because it's Jane.
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:58.000
The way that Betty Davis delivers the words you aren't, she aren't is so good and so iconic.
00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.760
You aren't ever gonna sell.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.239
This house and you aren't ever gonna leave it.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:11.920
My favourite on a similar line is when Blanche says something about being in a wheelchair and Betty Davis goes, but you are Blanche.
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:12.480
Yes.
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:14.320
You are in the chair.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:15.039
Yes.
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:16.639
It's so good.
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:17.199
Yeah.
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:18.480
There's something right.
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:26.000
There's something camp about delivering a line in a way that nobody else would.
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:27.519
Does that make sense to you?
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:34.719
This is a big thing, I think, in like camp, kind of the the the the canon of camp or whatever.
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:43.679
If you say that line in a way that is nobody else would think to, there's something so unique about it, it really is camp.
00:44:44.320 --> 00:45:04.159
Yeah, it's about putting emphasis in places where you wouldn't normally expect to find it kind of mixing accents in a way and mixing intonations from different places that just gives it this like no one else would do that.
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.679
I think it's it's a moment of strangeness.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:11.920
And like where people say, like you said earlier, like something pulls you out of it.
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:16.639
This sort of thing can almost pull you out of it, but actually it pulls me further into something.
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:17.519
Do you know what I mean?
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:18.880
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:20.960
A strangeness to it that is all its own.
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:23.519
And so, yeah, this is a great confrontation.
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:29.039
Then so Jane has also brought another dinner up, and we get a massive swell of music.
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:29.679
Yes.
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.800
Every time she puts her hand on the cloch.
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:43.920
I have also written down the music effect for the lunch reveal because this is camp, and I don't know if they were doing this for comic effect or if they really mean this dramatically.
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:58.159
But yeah, Blanche obviously the fear of the budgie in her mind can't do the reveal of the lunch, and so they swell the music two or three times, and it's it it's it's so dramatic and wonderful.
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:07.679
I love that, I love it so much, but yeah, I don't know, I don't know how they intend that, whether they intend that as a laugh or they're just really building the drama.
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:13.440
We then oh move away from the oh now then.
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.800
Now then now we've got to talk about him.
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.159
Hello, lovely!
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:19.519
No, not him.
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:20.559
I want to talk about her.
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:22.639
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:24.719
I'm obsessed with this woman.
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:25.679
I know, I know.
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:27.679
I went and googled her.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:34.480
So we so we're going to meet the guy who's going to respond to this piano playing advert.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:35.039
Yes.
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:35.760
Right?
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.239
But we meet him with his mum.
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:38.880
Yes.
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:40.079
And Delia.
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:42.800
And Delia is British for some reason.
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:43.920
I don't know why.
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:45.280
This is in the script.
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:48.000
And her her accent is amazing.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:52.880
Well, I put an elderly British mother who is quite the contrast to old Hollywood.
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:54.880
She is quite the contrast.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:57.119
Hello, nothing else, your day bitch.
00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.199
She's she's a bit Monty Python, isn't she?
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:00.320
Well, she is when you do it.
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.000
I've got I've got written down, still got a bit of savings.
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:18.639
So I love this dynamic because we've got this tiny little old woman who yells at the top of her voice the whole time.
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:21.039
Everything is delivered full volume.
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:26.320
And she's got this very large son, like he's I He's not a native Brit.
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:27.920
But he's trying, isn't it?
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:29.760
Why does his mother have to be British?
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:30.800
Just to give him a thing?
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:31.440
No, no, no.
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:32.960
I think he's supposed to be British.
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:33.760
Oh, is he?
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:34.079
Okay.
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:34.559
Yes.
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:38.880
Well, this is I think his name's Edwin, played by Victor Buono.
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:39.599
Yes.
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:42.400
Who is This was his first film role.
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:43.679
First film role.
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:50.320
I the only other thing I know him from is I think in he's in Batman and I think he plays a character called Kittat.
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:50.719
Yeah.
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.119
Which probably yeah, we don't need to talk about.
00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:56.559
But I I I really think he's good in this.
00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:02.079
But I I do question like what what they wanted from this character.
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:05.440
I I question what they wanted from either of them.
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:06.159
Yes.
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:08.159
I know what they got with the mother.
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:09.679
She's so good.
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:12.000
Uh fun fact about her.
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:12.400
Yeah.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:14.400
She's such a mini deep dive for you.
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:16.960
She was a really big silent film star.
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:17.840
Oh.
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:21.519
I can imagine her being popular at no volume.
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.119
And she was also in Mary Poppins.
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:26.000
Was she really?
00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:26.559
She was.
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.000
She played Miss Lark, who's the character that had Andrew the dog.
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:30.960
Oh!
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:33.760
Yeah, same woman, yes! Yeah.
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:35.119
Oh my goodness.
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:35.679
Yes.
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:36.239
Okay.
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:41.119
Very mini deep dive, but I'm I'm excited by it.
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:44.639
He hates her with every fibre of his being.
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.199
Yes.
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:45.679
Yeah.
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:46.079
Yeah.
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:53.280
I th I think I don't know if they were trying to set up a dynamic where he's trapped with somebody from his family the same way that Jane is.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:53.920
Yes.
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:58.480
But it does come across that um everybody with a relative just hates them.
00:48:58.800 --> 00:48:59.519
This is true.
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:01.280
This is very true.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:02.960
Yeah.
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.039
Don't get stuck with your relatives.
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:06.320
They're a nightmare.
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:13.840
She calls Jane in response to the ad as though she is his secretary.
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.400
Mm-hmm.
00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:20.559
There's a there's a bit of a phone call to which Jane says I'll be expecting him.
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:23.119
And nobody says where he's got to go.
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.320
No, no, no.
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:25.599
We don't need it.
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:27.039
It's not in the advert.
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:28.159
Skip over it.
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:29.199
Skip over the details.
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:30.480
See him at four.
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:30.800
Yeah.
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:31.760
Where, Jane?
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:32.559
Where?
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:37.360
Then we get a buzzer again.
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:40.480
I have to say, right, at this point with the buzzer.
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:41.039
Yeah.
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:52.480
That considering Blanche is being controlled and emotionally and possibly financially abused by her sister and all types of abuse, she really does go ham on that buzzer.
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:53.440
Oh yeah, she does.
00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:58.800
For someone who's got your very life in their hands, just buzz once and wait.
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:01.760
She really buzzes the shit out of that buzzer.
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:02.000
Yeah.
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:03.119
I was getting annoyed.
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:07.119
I wasn't fully on Baby Jane's side, but I was like, give it a rest.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:09.840
I think fully on Baby Jane's side is a dangerous place to be.
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:11.519
It is, but years of that buzzer.
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:12.000
Come on.
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:16.320
Got some great, some great lines in this scene as well.
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:19.840
I didn't bring you breakfast because you didn't need your din-din.
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:21.599
Didn't eat your dindin.
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:22.400
Yeah.
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:32.400
Blanche is hungry and she was too scared to open her food, which wasn't breakfast because we later see it was like a steak.
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:38.079
But she was too scared to eat it, so Blanche hasn't uh so Jane hasn't bought her any more food.
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:38.639
No.
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:39.679
She's hungry.
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:40.559
She's hungry.
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.679
I also wrote Blanche always has a nice neck piece.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:44.480
Right.
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:46.960
She's always got something going like a bow.
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:48.000
Going on on the neck.
00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:50.480
A b a bow or a it's mostly bows, actually.
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:55.199
Yes, because she's not because sh the only person taking care of her is baby Jane.
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:55.599
Yes.
00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:03.440
And so we're getting the idea now that she's she's not getting enough to eat and not not getting enough to drink, possibly, but she's always impeccably turned out.
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:04.159
Yes.
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:05.280
Up to this point.
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:05.679
Yeah.
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:12.960
Yeah, and well, I mean, even moving forward, I think the face is always the f the face never lies, yeah.
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:13.360
No.
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:16.000
And then we she gives Elvira the day off.
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:27.440
There's a there's a there's a line I just want to like point out in that scene between Blanche and Jane where Blanche now Joan Crawford, right, is quite formidable.
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:27.920
Yes.
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:32.719
But she tries to play this character with some fragility, I think.
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:37.199
Because she she is very, you know, like the the the character's being very controlled.
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:49.039
She is softer, she's trying to be softer, and she says at this point, in a quite earnest way, do you ever think, you know, if I wasn't alive, there'd be no money for you?
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:56.480
And Betty Davis, her character goes, Yeah, I thought about that, and I think it's just a great moment.
00:51:56.639 --> 00:52:01.199
They don't they don't have to say to you, Well, why would Jane be keeping this sister alive?
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:05.199
If she hates her so much, why wouldn't she have killed her off before now?
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:13.039
It's clear at that point, this is Blanche's money, and in order to keep the money in the house and whatever, Jane needs her alive.
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:18.639
And you see Joan Crawford's face go, Oh, she's thought about killing me before.
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.199
And I just think it's great, it's a great moment.
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:28.800
I think it's really interesting that the film can manage these really subtle moments.
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:29.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:35.760
And in other places, has to do this really sort of ham-fisted exposition.
00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:37.440
It's very interesting.
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:38.639
I agree, I agree.
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:43.440
I don't think they ever quite strike the balance.
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:50.559
It's it's very strange because you get a moment like that, and then yeah, you you go straight into something odd.
00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:52.480
I I kind of like it for that.
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.360
I like the imperfectness of that, but you know.
00:52:56.239 --> 00:52:59.119
We see Elvira again, and Jane gives her the day off.
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:00.960
Yeah, she's gone, she's out of the picture.
00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:03.760
Never speaks to Blanche.
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.599
No, she doesn't get to speak to Blanche.
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:11.840
Then we go to Baby Jane taking her another She's coming up with the tea tray again.
00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:13.440
She's coming up with the tea tray.
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.599
A lot of the storytelling is done.
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:16.639
With tea trays.
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:17.360
With tea trays.
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:18.800
That's quite camp, isn't it?
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:19.360
Well, exactly.
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:21.440
Occupant silverware to tell a story.
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:22.239
Yes, yes, yes.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.079
Beauty and the beast could never.
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:25.519
And we get.
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:27.360
Oh Blanche.
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:29.920
You know we got rats in the cellar.
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:30.800
Yeah.
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:38.239
But but she but the last meal that she served her was actually fine.
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:38.719
Yes.
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:41.760
So maybe she's just winding her up about the rats.
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:42.239
Yeah.
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.199
Except she isn't.
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:44.000
She's not, no.
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:45.519
There's fully a rat under the.
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:47.599
There's a rat under the cloch.
00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:53.199
And then we get, you know, Joan Crawford dramatically pushes away the tea tray onto the floor.
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:54.960
Tea tray uh storytelling.
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:58.239
Uh and Betty Davis is in another room cackling with laughter.
00:53:58.960 --> 00:53:59.920
I wrote cackling.
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.440
It's it's a proper hearty cackle.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:08.719
And then we do get a bit that is very gamp.
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:09.599
It's very gamp.
00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:13.119
It's Blanche pointlessly spinning in her chair crying.
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:13.440
Yes.
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:15.119
She's just going in circles.
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:21.280
I think, you know, the director's gone, um, well, you can't like, you know, throw yourself dramatically on the furniture.
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:22.239
What could she do?
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:22.639
Yeah.
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:25.199
And so she just goes round and round in the wheelchair.
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:25.519
Yeah.
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:38.079
Now, hold I I think this is the the moment that is like mo is most unintentionally funny, and probably the one bit that I would edit out because it's so nonsensical.
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:39.760
Oh, it's the one bit I keep.
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:46.079
I it's it is nonsensical, but I think that's why I love it.
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:46.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:48.960
It's like, why are you I do understand?
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:50.880
I'd be sad to lose it.
00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:51.519
But yeah.
00:54:51.760 --> 00:55:01.679
The thing is, I think this part I I actually think Joan Crawford does a really good job with her physicality of portraying a wheelchair user.
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:22.320
But I think at this point it's obvious it's not a wheelchair user because it's so silly, and I think somebody who is genuinely in a wheelchair would have thought of something that could show that angst and that kind of physical manifestation of their distress at that point in a way that wasn't so silly, but maybe they liked the silliness of it.
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:22.719
I don't know.
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.719
We move to later on, right, and piano man comes.
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:33.039
The piano man is coming, and Jane is now fully done up like her childhood self.
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:34.480
Oh, yeah, I've written that.
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:39.920
White dress, sash, ringlets, full beat, and ribbons.
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:41.039
Yes.
00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:44.639
She's literally just yeah, dressed like the doll.
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:45.360
Yeah.
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:47.280
But as a an adult woman.
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:50.079
He comes in and they're both.
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:57.039
It's very clear to me, and again, this is another sort of subtle thing that they manage to do.
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:01.760
They're both trying to make themselves look better than they are.
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:03.360
Yeah, I think it's done quite well.
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:05.679
They're both bullshitting, essentially.
00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:08.880
That they're the big, you know, kahuna or whatever.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:09.280
Yeah.
00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:14.400
Um, he says he he has a line, you must have guessed that I'm English.
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:17.039
And she says, How nice for you!
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:18.639
I like.
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:27.679
She we get lots of shots of him sort of almost mugging to the camera.
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:28.239
Yes.
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:29.920
I've written the word mugging.
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:30.480
Yeah.
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:33.920
Because he he has he gives a really good face.
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:34.480
Yeah.
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:39.760
And we get a lot of his face saying, Oh god, this stupid old woman.
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:40.239
Yeah.
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:41.920
He's obviously judging her.
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:42.400
Yes.
00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:42.960
Right?
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:51.039
But at the same time, I think his face conveys, oh, sometimes you just gotta do these jobs with these nuts.
00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:54.559
It's not this woman is dangerous, she's got her sister hostage upstairs.
00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:01.360
It's oh, you know, in show business you meet all kinds, you just gotta put up with it, cash the checks, just you know.
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:04.320
Then she takes him to look at her scrapbooks.
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:05.039
Yes.
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:06.480
Which Daddy compiled.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:07.599
Daddy compiled.
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:08.320
Yes.
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:14.239
At which point Blanche presses the buzzer incessantly again.
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:17.440
It does, she always presses it incessantly.
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:24.559
To which Jane runs upstairs, pulls out the buzzer mechanism, and isolates her even further.
00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:31.280
She now can't even get the attention, and we get an old school Hollywood slap between them.
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:31.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:46.400
I think, and I I really I enjoy how they do the relationship because this is I think maybe the first like real violence we've seen between the two of them.
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:46.880
Yeah.
00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:50.480
But I was I was already in fear for Blanche.
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.159
Yeah, you it doesn't it doesn't need to overdo anything.
00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:58.800
And it but it also doesn't come out of no like Yeah, it it seems totally right.
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:08.400
Yeah, like the psychological warfare has already been there, and they leave the slap, I think they leave it long enough that you're not surprised by it.
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:11.199
Then she sings.
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.199
Oh yes, she does.
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:13.920
She does.
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:23.519
Now what I I love, I loved this and what they do with it because they put her in theatrical lighting.
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:24.239
Yep.
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:31.280
She turns on a light, which clearly isn't what she does is she hits a light switch and the lighting state changes.
00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:33.280
That's not a light coming on.
00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:33.840
No.
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.039
That is it is kind of expressionist.
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:41.119
It's it's certainly not a natural light that would come into the room.
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:41.599
No.
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:46.960
And she watches herself perform in a mirror that's got a ballet bar in front of it.
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:50.239
The pianist is unconvinced throughout.
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:56.880
This this is what I was gonna say is she's performing, she's totally within her own fantasy.
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:04.320
His looks break in, and he's sort of like he is mugging to us, like, oh my god, what is this woman doing?
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:19.760
But then we also cut occasionally upstairs to Blanche, who looks terrified because she can obviously overhear some of this music, and her looks are like, oh my god, you know, uh th the the the fear and the horror of this.
00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:23.280
So I love that you're getting those two different reactions to it.
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:26.960
Whilst yeah, Betty Davis just performs the hell out of it.
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:37.440
She's so like she's so good as this creepy performer who really thinks she's a little girl and is really back there, and oh, I love it.
00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:41.519
Yeah, there's something camp about the old doing the things of the young.
00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:43.039
Yes, yeah.
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:44.800
It's the subversive, isn't it?
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:46.480
Yeah, it just shouldn't be happening.
00:59:46.719 --> 00:59:47.280
Yeah.
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:53.840
She curtsies to no one and then he starts talking about money.
00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:54.800
Yes.
00:59:55.119 --> 01:00:01.440
And during this whole conversation, he's basically try I think what he wants is her to give him money literally there and there.
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:02.559
He needs money right there.
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:02.800
Yeah.
01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:08.400
She says, You can have it Wednesday, and I'll give you a month's worth, which sort of placates him.
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:14.480
And I did write in this moment, you sort of feel sorry for her.
01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:15.679
Yeah, I think you do.
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:22.559
I think you realise that he's a wrong and that he's actually out to scam her.
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:26.639
I feel like if she'd given him money there and then, she never would have seen him again.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:27.599
Oh, do you think?
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:28.079
Yeah.
01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:29.039
Interesting.
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:30.400
I don't think I'd thought of that.
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:32.320
I think he was on the make, basically.
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:33.199
Right.
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:38.559
And there's this vulnerability in her at this point that you start to see.
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:43.039
And I think this is where Right, okay.
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:49.440
This is where we start getting into the realms of her having a mental health condition.
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.000
And I have an issue.
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:52.639
Okay.
01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:57.760
With mental health conditions being played for camp.
01:00:58.400 --> 01:00:58.800
Mm-hmm.
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:03.280
And I think this is one of my key issues from here on out.
01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:24.239
I can enjoy it on an entertainment level, but the overacting and the overperformance of the mental health condition removes it from any kind of place of reality and is sort of quite a damaging interpretation of what a mental health condition actually is.
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:25.199
Interesting.
01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:25.519
Okay.
01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:27.599
And I think this is something that recurs.
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:36.480
It's not exclusive to this film, and it's probably part of a wider conversation about mental health representation on screen.
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:50.239
But I think there are a lot of examples of the in quote marks crazy character being played for laughs and being played for melodrama.
01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:50.960
Right.
01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:54.880
That really is quite harmful in some ways.
01:01:55.280 --> 01:02:06.159
It's really interesting because I I totally understand what you're saying, but I never I don't think I'd thought of her playing it for laughs.
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:30.000
And I don't think I I really like understand so one of the things with the th the this film is like I get why it's seen as camp because the kind of things around it, but I I genuinely the characters, I like the the way the actresses are choosing to perform it, I think they totally believe their truth.
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:30.800
Do you know what I mean?
01:02:31.119 --> 01:02:34.320
Yeah, and I think playing it for last was maybe the wrong way to phrase it.
01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:45.519
Because I don't think she you know, she's not in a sitcom, she's not Yeah, and I don't think she thinks, Oh, I'm just yeah, I'm not I'm not playing this character as though it were absurd.
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:48.800
I think she believes in her truth, as it were.
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:54.719
I I think maybe what I have issue with is it sometimes being labelled as camp.
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:55.519
Yeah.
01:02:56.079 --> 01:03:01.760
When you sort of watch it and go, Oh but actually, like there's quite a serious Yeah.
01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:16.079
Well, I have an issue with it being labelled as as camp because when m quite often when male characters go like to a really bold, unusual place, it isn't labelled camp.
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:16.559
No.
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:20.559
It's just them doing something really new and different and unique.
01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:24.800
And this is labelled as camp almost almost exclusively because it's women.
01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:26.960
Because it's women that in the central roles.
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:35.280
And yeah, the idea of her being her like younger self with the you know, dressing up as a dolly puts it into the the camp realm.
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:50.079
But what she's actually doing is a really sort of fascinating portrayal of this resentful sister and this resentment like brewing up over years and Yeah, I don't have any issue with the way she's playing it.
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:50.480
Yeah.
01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:59.840
Because I don't think she's playing it any differently to how other women were portraying mental health issues at the time.
01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:03.360
It's i it's a product of its society.
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:14.239
I think that looking at it now and going, oh, that's camp, in this instance actually sort of dismisses it a little bit.
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:14.960
Yeah.
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:24.239
Well, and I was thinking this about the the sort of topics that it touches on because we get we go into a bit now about like what I would term financial abuse.
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:26.960
Yes, which is where Jane goes out again.
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:34.719
Jane goes out, and Blanche comes out of her room, basically, she's so hungry, she's looking for anything that she can eat.
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:37.840
And she finds these chocolates in Jane's room.
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:46.159
Yes, and then I'm just gonna sidestep for a moment because we get into some real camp now because we get some dubbed eating noises.
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:55.760
I do know what I thought I was being oversensitive, but I've written down ADR'd eating noise because they didn't match what she was doing.
01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:56.960
And it's so over the top.
01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:00.000
And it's oddly something like that.
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:00.320
Yeah.
01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:32.400
But um no, what I was saying about the financial she underneath these chocolates she finds that Jane's been practising her signature, and so it's obvious to her that as part of this plan Jane is either already started ripping her off or is going to, and but these are these are real topics, you know, uh for disabled people or elderly people where whoever's caring for them controls them, and it that is a that is genuinely something that you could treat in a very serious way.
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:36.400
You can imagine a very like gritty British film umge.
01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:37.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:39.119
What's this?
01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:39.599
Huh?
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:40.239
Huh?
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:40.800
Huh?
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:41.440
What?
01:05:41.679 --> 01:05:44.239
And you know, you can have a very serious film about that.
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:44.719
Yes.
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:54.159
And is it always wrong t for a serious topic like that to sort of be treated in this more overblown way?
01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:58.960
Because I don't think I d I don't necessarily have a problem with it.
01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:08.480
I think it If i it's sort of like they're not meaning to um do any offence to people who are being ripped off.
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:11.360
It's just the topic that they're using.
01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:12.239
Do you know what I mean?
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:33.519
Yes, and I think this is where something else comes up that I thought of is that we are being we're not being presented with a character that is evil or despicable because they want to be evil or despicable.
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:33.920
Right.
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:47.440
We're being presented with a character who clearly has some issues going on and is doing this I I think as a result of those issues.
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:48.320
Yes.
01:06:48.559 --> 01:07:00.079
But it's it's taking someone that has issues and playing a film as though they are evil and are doing it because they wanna do it.
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:04.079
But she's always been she's always been a bad person, I think.
01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:19.039
Yes, but then I also Right, I mean this is turning into a a therapy session, but then she's always been that sort of person, but then I look at the relationship with the father and I go, was that an entirely healthy relationship?
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:21.679
Oh god! Yes, okay.
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:30.960
Because she was sort of a child star and she probably was you know, the dad was the manager and he probably was like, No, you get out there and you earn us the money, and you know.
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:32.960
So I see we I think it's fine.
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:53.920
I think if we were watching something like Nightmare on Elm Street, where our evil character is I've never seen it, but where our evil character is an evil character, yeah, then I'm like, yeah, take these issues and treat them in this really overblown way because they're just Yeah, yeah.
01:07:54.639 --> 01:08:01.119
I think once you and uh dear listener, I'm very aware we're probably looking far too deeply into it.
01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:17.359
I think when you take someone with mental health issues and make them do these things, but also don't deal really with the the why and the wherefores of the condition, it gets a bit icky.
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:18.880
Right, okay.
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:20.079
Do you know what I mean?
01:08:20.479 --> 01:08:21.199
I think so.
01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:23.520
I think I sort of disagree.
01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:24.239
Fine.
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:47.359
Because I think you can't look into the whys and wherefores within this film because it doesn't support that, because it's sort of like it's it's about one sort of like specific thing, which is it it's this relationship between them, and you have to Well it does it does give you the whys and wherefores to some extent, doesn't it?
01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:52.560
It g like it does the bit of the background of of how their relationship has always been.
01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:57.039
And I kind of I don't know, I yeah, I kind of like it.
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:03.359
I kind of like that it deals with things rather than being made up like you know, Nightmare on Elm Street.
01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:07.840
It kind of takes its horror from real things that happen to people, you know.
01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:19.119
Yeah, and I as you're saying that, uh what I also wouldn't want was kind of almost a footnote of someone going, Oh yes, well she was treated awfully by her dad.
01:09:19.359 --> 01:09:20.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:23.279
Like maybe it's just not the film I want it to be.
01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:25.199
No, yeah, I think that's fair.
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:26.399
I think that's totally fair.
01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:27.199
Yeah.
01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:36.720
It's is there a point at which it like changes for you, or is this all the way along you're kind of having this feeling?
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:41.199
Because we're at the point now where Oh right, yes, this point.
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:54.640
So we're at the point Jane has gone out to the bank to get some money for dresses for her new act that she's putting together, and also the money to pay Edwin.
01:09:55.359 --> 01:10:03.039
And what we get is another sequence similar to the one earlier that I thought worked.
01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:09.039
The sequence with Blanche writing the message and the cross-cutting between, you know, all Jane's on her way back.
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:09.520
Yep.
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:14.319
This one I do not think works at all, and I shall tell you for why.
01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:14.880
Okay.
01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:26.159
What we get is a sequence of Blanche deciding that she is going to take herself down the stairs.
01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:38.960
My issue with it is that the cross cuts, what we see of Betty Davis, in actuality, probably takes about half an hour.
01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:39.520
Mm-hmm.
01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:47.199
What we see of Joan Crawford probably takes if I'm generous, five minutes.
01:10:47.760 --> 01:11:00.399
And so I don't I don't get the sense of foreboding because I'm like, oh, she's only just getting back in the car, she's still got to drive back, and I know that she's gonna arrive at the least opportune moment.
01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:00.800
Yeah, yeah.
01:11:01.039 --> 01:11:16.239
Like I know that it's coming, but the effect is that it looks like Blanche is trying to get down those stairs for about 20 minutes, and the but the way in which she's doing it by holding herself up on the banner.
01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:16.640
Yeah.
01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:22.239
Back the banner, the banister, yeah, it would take superhuman body strength.
01:11:22.399 --> 01:11:23.039
It would.
01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:30.960
For her to it would take superhuman body strength for her to do it anyway, because all she's had to eat for the last couple of days is a couple of chocolates.
01:11:31.119 --> 01:11:31.760
Yes.
01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:35.920
And I just it it just kills any sort of tension for me.
01:11:36.159 --> 01:11:37.840
I totally disagree.
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:39.520
I totally buy.
01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:40.960
I think it's brilliant.
01:11:41.119 --> 01:11:43.920
You know, Joan Crawford is dangling over that banister.
01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:45.920
There's beads of sweat on her forehead.
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:48.800
I totally buy very carefully placed beads of sweat.
01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:56.239
I totally buy that she's doing that for like 20 minutes trying to get down there because it's and I think she puts in great physical work.
01:11:56.560 --> 01:12:02.479
But it but well to show that she's not using her legs and but I think half the problem is that she barely moves when we cut back.
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:03.039
Do you know what I mean?
01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:14.239
Yeah, yeah, she can't really show us much movement because I don't think it's physically possible for someone with the the kind of disability that they're suggesting she has to get down the stairs in that way.
01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:14.640
Yes.
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:17.359
Why you would not go down on your bum, I don't know.
01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:20.399
Um it wasn't wasn't graceful for Joan Crawford, I guess.
01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:25.760
But I love I love the physical effort that she's putting into dangling over that banister.
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:26.800
I think it's great.
01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:29.600
And I yeah, I'm totally in it.
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:38.319
I'm screaming quicker uh because especially a lot of time is spent with Joan Crawford has got to the phone, which is the aim.
01:12:38.399 --> 01:12:39.680
We wanted her to get to the phone.
01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:43.359
Yeah, she's got through to the doctor who's the one she wanted to speak to.
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:45.119
It takes her so long.
01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:52.720
She doesn't just blurt out in the first sentence, help, get stuff get the police round here, get anyone round here, I'm going to die.
01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:53.199
Yes.
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:55.680
She's sort of saying, Oh, I I think she's a lot worse.
01:12:56.079 --> 01:12:57.680
Like, come on, woman.
01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:05.279
Well, yeah, and but Jane has arrived home while she's on the phone and is stood in the background of the shot listening to every word that she's saying.
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:06.159
Yeah.
01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:11.680
Then Betty Davis kicks her in the head.
01:13:12.079 --> 01:13:13.600
Oh, there's some real kicking.
01:13:13.840 --> 01:13:24.560
So the kick in the head is one of the stories that it after the film was made, it was alleged that Betty Davis actually kicked her in that film.
01:13:24.880 --> 01:13:25.039
Right.
01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:26.079
I wouldn't be surprised.
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:35.279
But equally, this sequence of Baby Jane kicking her is edited in such a way that it could not possibly be real.
01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:36.560
No, exactly.
01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:37.199
Yeah.
01:13:37.600 --> 01:13:41.279
See, I there's also there's a series made called Feud.
01:13:41.680 --> 01:13:43.039
Yeah, I haven't seen that one.
01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:46.000
Right, which is about the two of them And the making of this.
01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:47.600
And the making of this.
01:13:48.000 --> 01:14:02.159
And I'm pretty sure there's a story in that which is suggests that Joan Crawford put like something like wooden panels or something in her weighed down her dressing gown.
01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:09.279
Yeah, weighed down her dressing gown, but also put something hard so that when she was like being kicked, she was it was meant to be padding.
01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:09.760
Right.
01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:11.199
But it was actually um.
01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:18.239
So the story that I've read is the scene where you have Jane dragging her across the floor.
01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:18.800
Yeah.
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:23.039
She weighed her costume down because she knew that Betty Davis had back problems.
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:28.720
Well, I've also heard that, and when we were watching that, I was pretty sure I could see Joan Crawford smiling.
01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:36.159
So I'm sure that one's I should just say at this juncture that both of them denied that any of that ever happened.
01:14:37.039 --> 01:14:37.840
They would, wouldn't they?
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:38.479
Yeah.
01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:46.319
Then Baby Jane calls the doctor back and does her second weird lip sync impression.
01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:46.800
Yes.
01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:48.479
Saying, Oh no, don't come.
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:50.640
Uh Jane's decided to see another doctor.
01:14:50.880 --> 01:14:53.840
Because the doctor's got his coat on, she thinks finally everything's gonna be alright.
01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:54.239
Yep.
01:14:54.399 --> 01:14:56.560
No, does the weird lip sync thing.
01:14:56.800 --> 01:14:59.119
Elvira returns early.
01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:00.319
Elvira's back.
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:01.760
And Jane fires her.
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:06.079
Then Elvira She gets the feeling that something's up, doesn't she?
01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:08.399
She's not she's not a silly woman.
01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:10.640
She gets the feeling something's going on.
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:16.319
And she tells Jane that she can't have the key back because she's forgotten it.
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:17.600
She's forgotten it.
01:15:17.840 --> 01:15:28.000
At which point I was cheering because my experience of these sorts of films is that she would go, Oh well, you fired me.
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:28.640
Well, I'm off.
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:30.239
Haha, never coming back.
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:35.279
You know, it it felt like it was another bit of hope that was going to be trodden on.
01:15:35.439 --> 01:15:36.000
Yeah.
01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:38.000
So I was like, Yes, Elvira.
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:45.439
She goes and waits for the bus, sees Jane go out and drive past, and then she goes back to the house.
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:46.239
Yes.
01:15:46.479 --> 01:15:47.359
And lets herself in.
01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:55.119
She lets herself in, and we don't know where Blanche is in the house at the moment because we've seen this kicking, and that's the last we saw of it.
01:15:55.279 --> 01:15:55.840
Yeah, that's it.
01:15:56.079 --> 01:15:58.479
So Elvira's coming in, she's looking around.
01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:08.560
When she gets upstairs, the door of Blanche's bedroom is locked, and she also notices the buzzer has been ripped out.
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:09.039
Yes.
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:11.840
So she's calling for Blanche, saying, you know, are you in there?
01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:12.560
Are you alright?
01:16:12.880 --> 01:16:13.760
No reply.
01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:21.119
And Elvira is quite handy because she goes and gets a hammer and chisel and starts trying to take the hinges off the door.
01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:21.520
Yes.
01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:24.159
I was like, okay, Elvira, go on.
01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:28.720
Once again, and again, it's the third time it happens.
01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:31.279
Jane arrives back at exactly the right time.
01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:32.159
Yeah, okay.
01:16:32.239 --> 01:16:33.920
They do maybe overdo that one.
01:16:34.079 --> 01:16:36.880
I really like it though, as a device.
01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:40.000
Always getting back in the nick of time is really fun to me.
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:45.840
Yeah, and then she confronts Elvira with the hammer.
01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:48.560
No, Elvira's got in at this point.
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:50.000
Has she got in?
01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:53.359
No, Elvira doesn't get in with the hinge thing.
01:16:53.680 --> 01:17:03.199
She right, when Jane gets back, Elvira says to her, You open this door, unlock this door, or I'm gonna call the police.
01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:08.640
And we see Jane look at the hammer and go, Alright, I'll give you the key.
01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:12.079
Yes, to which I wrote, Why would you put the hammer down?
01:17:12.319 --> 01:17:13.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:17.680
But I think what this shows is that Elvira doesn't realise how serious it is.
01:17:17.920 --> 01:17:21.920
She thinks I'll call the police is the worst thing that can happen today.
01:17:22.479 --> 01:17:26.239
She doesn't think the worst thing that can happen today is a hammer to the back of my head.
01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:28.800
Well, no, because But she's wrong.
01:17:28.960 --> 01:17:29.199
Yeah.
01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:32.960
Jane lets her in, she sees that Blanche is tied up and gagged.
01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:35.840
Yeah, she's tied to the thing that's supposed to help her out of the bed.
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:37.920
And then Jane bashes her head in with a hammer.
01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:41.279
Which now we're really reaching a fever pitch.
01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:42.880
We are, yes.
01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:49.279
In terms of this character, like I do think they've built it really well, like what she's capable of.
01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:55.920
Because she really she's scary at the beginning, but you don't think that she will go this far.
01:17:56.159 --> 01:17:56.479
No.
01:17:56.720 --> 01:18:00.560
And so when this happens, it's like, oh, there's really yeah.
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:02.800
Then the English lady's back.
01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:09.039
This is okay, this is a bad scene because they do just yell exposition.
01:18:09.520 --> 01:18:10.640
She is just exposition.
01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:14.079
I was more here for it because I adore her.
01:18:14.319 --> 01:18:17.840
Um It's yeah, it's Victor and his mum.
01:18:18.079 --> 01:18:20.000
It's the character's not called Victor Brono.
01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:26.640
Edwin yelling at each other, um, exposition at breakfast about the accident.
01:18:26.720 --> 01:18:38.319
Because obviously there were all, you know, stories in the paper about this at some point, so somebody knows the story of how Blanche got injured and then Jane was missing um after that.
01:18:38.560 --> 01:18:40.159
And there's a so there's a whole story there.
01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:50.159
We cut back to Jane, who's drunkenly looking at her scrapbooks when Piano Man arrives, to which she says, I can't let you in.
01:18:50.880 --> 01:18:51.920
Not now.
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:54.880
Yes, I'm not sure what the accent is, so don't know.
01:18:55.119 --> 01:18:58.159
No, and then she I wrote she's stumbling and monologuing.
01:18:58.479 --> 01:18:59.199
Yeah, yeah.
01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:00.880
She's basically talking to herself.
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:01.760
She is.
01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:08.560
Then we cut to her the scene that follows is the disposal of Elvira's body.
01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:09.439
Yeah.
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:16.880
In which she brings out an obvious dummy on a wheelchair to load into her car.
01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:18.800
Elvira's got a lot lighter.
01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:19.680
Yes.
01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:23.119
And she does a lot of eye acting.
01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:25.199
Which I'll do an impression of.
01:19:25.359 --> 01:19:27.840
You won't hear you won't see it at home, but here we go.
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:33.840
And then we I love this cut.
01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:36.239
We cut to an undertaking advert on a billboard.
01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:36.720
Mm-hmm.
01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:37.039
Yeah.
01:19:37.359 --> 01:19:40.720
Just yeah, you know, you have to tell the story in a subtle way.
01:19:40.960 --> 01:19:45.680
It's but I love that sort of dark the dark humour of it.
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:47.840
The dark humour, yeah, absolutely.
01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:56.640
We go back to the British lady again, and Edwin shouts at her, and we get one of my favourite shots of the whole film.
01:19:57.279 --> 01:20:10.239
He shouts at her and storms out, and then we cut to a close-up of her face going, Oh, yeah.
01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:12.880
I think I wish there was more of her, to be honest with you.
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:13.600
Delia.
01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:14.319
Yeah.
01:20:14.479 --> 01:20:15.760
Yeah, absolutely.
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:18.319
Then the police call about Elvira.
01:20:18.880 --> 01:20:21.520
I love when she gets the phone call.
01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:26.399
When Betty Davis picks up the phone, you don't because there's a lot going on, you don't know what the phone call is.
01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:30.560
And you know, it could be the doctor, it could be Victor, whatever.
01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:38.880
But you watch her kind of crash in as she as you and you realise as the audience, you're watching her going, What's the phone?
01:20:39.199 --> 01:20:42.560
Oh, the maid, somebody's gonna miss Elvira.
01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:47.760
And so then the first line is something like, Oh, you know, she hasn't been here or whatever.
01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:49.680
It's great, it's great.
01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:50.960
I love that moment.
01:20:51.119 --> 01:20:51.760
Yeah.
01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:59.600
Um, but they but she says, you know, haven't seen her, she's not around, and so they sort of say, Well, we might have to come if we don't find her.
01:20:59.760 --> 01:20:59.920
Yeah.
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:00.880
The threat is there.
01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:04.000
There's lots of looking off into the middle distance at this point.
01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:04.720
Yes.
01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:06.000
Yeah.
01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:13.600
Then the police do show up and she answers the door, but they've got Edwin, who they found outside drunk.
01:21:13.920 --> 01:21:14.239
Yes.
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:16.399
Saying that he knew her.
01:21:16.720 --> 01:21:25.119
Yeah, so for because he she hasn't answered giving him his money, he's gone off and got got drunk for whatever reason, because that's what he's like.
01:21:25.359 --> 01:21:30.640
And then he's told them her address so that he can turn up at his employer drunk.
01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:31.119
Yeah.
01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:33.600
It seems like an unlikely sequence of events.
01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:39.359
Yes, and one of my favourite bits of this sequence is the painted backdrop outside the front door.
01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:40.000
Mmm.
01:21:40.159 --> 01:21:40.399
Yeah.
01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:42.800
They open a door and there's just a painting behind me.
01:21:43.279 --> 01:21:43.760
Painting, yeah.
01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.319
Yeah.
01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:48.560
I think I think everything that happens with Victor now is quite unlikely.
01:21:49.359 --> 01:21:51.840
Because he comes inside and he's drunk, remember?
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:52.479
Yes.
01:21:52.640 --> 01:21:54.800
And um Blanche She's drunk.
01:21:55.119 --> 01:21:55.760
She's drunk.
01:21:55.840 --> 01:21:58.479
Blanche has managed to untie a hand.
01:21:58.880 --> 01:21:59.520
Yes.
01:21:59.920 --> 01:22:03.199
Because This is again where we're doing a lot of this cross-cutting.
01:22:03.359 --> 01:22:03.600
Yeah.
01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:07.199
Where we're establishing that Victor and um the character's name is Edwin.
01:22:07.279 --> 01:22:07.520
Yes.
01:22:07.760 --> 01:22:15.039
Edwin is downstairs, and so obviously that's a danger to her if he discovers um Blanche upstairs.
01:22:15.279 --> 01:22:27.199
And yeah, Blanche is getting managing to get herself free, but she's very weak because she's been tied with her hands like stretched out over her body because she's been tied to this thing that's supposed to help her get out of bed.
01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:32.960
Jane brings Edwin a present, which turns out to be the creepy baby Jane doll.
01:22:33.279 --> 01:22:35.279
She presents him with a baby Jane doll.
01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:36.079
Yes.
01:22:36.399 --> 01:22:38.479
His face, when he gets it, is wonderful.
01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:40.079
She dumps it on his lap.
01:22:40.399 --> 01:22:43.359
So he's now a grown man holding a doll child.
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:49.119
And she has to, I think she has to go upstairs for Blanche.
01:22:49.279 --> 01:22:52.079
Blanche manages to knock something over or something, make a noise.
01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:56.000
So well before that, we see Edwin wrapped up like E.T.
01:22:56.479 --> 01:22:57.840
wheeling himself through a.
01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:00.159
Blanche has gone out of the room.
01:23:00.399 --> 01:23:02.239
He Jane has gone out of the room.
01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:03.680
Jane has gone out of the room, sorry.
01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:04.399
That's right.
01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:21.119
Um He with this doll wraps himself up in a blanket with the doll and gets into a wheelchair and wheels himself through, going like, we When I say this whole part seems unlikely.
01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:22.800
I've been drunk.
01:23:23.119 --> 01:23:28.800
I still think this isn't the thing I would do in my employer's home, however drunk I've been.
01:23:29.039 --> 01:23:29.279
Yeah.
01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:39.520
And I think it's because they want Jane to see this and think that her sister has somehow managed to escape for even a second.
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:41.199
But it's really not necessary.
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:41.680
No.
01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:46.159
Like I Blanche manages to topple a table.
01:23:46.319 --> 01:23:46.720
Yeah.
01:23:46.960 --> 01:23:55.199
He bolts upstairs to see what the noise was, sees her, and basically realises that Blanche is dying.
01:23:55.520 --> 01:23:56.560
She looks awful.
01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:59.039
This is the first point where she's truly looked terrible.
01:23:59.359 --> 01:23:59.600
Yes.
01:23:59.760 --> 01:24:05.199
It's very well-placed, terrible makeup, but Yes, she looks beautiful and terrible.
01:24:05.359 --> 01:24:05.600
Yeah.
01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:06.880
Which is quite camp.
01:24:07.039 --> 01:24:07.279
Yes.
01:24:07.439 --> 01:24:16.960
But yeah, I don't think if I was him, I if I heard a noise in someone's house that I didn't really know that well, and they said, Oh, you know, don't worry about that, the cat's knocked something over.
01:24:17.119 --> 01:24:18.800
I think I'd just go, okay, fair enough.
01:24:19.039 --> 01:24:24.880
Yeah, I mean when we record this, if there's a strange noise, I wouldn't assume that you've got your husband tied up upstairs.
01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:32.399
Well even if you did, I think it's doubtful that you'd go and force your way in to have a look.
01:24:34.239 --> 01:24:34.800
I don't know.
01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:35.520
Oh my god.
01:24:35.840 --> 01:24:37.439
Well now I've watched this.
01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:47.119
Yes, so she yes, um Joan Crawford is looking absolutely terrible in a very glamorous way.
01:24:47.279 --> 01:24:47.920
Yes.
01:24:48.239 --> 01:24:50.800
And Jane realizes that he's gonna tell someone.
01:24:51.119 --> 01:24:59.920
Well he he runs out of the house and she is thrust, she's like waving money uh in his general direction, but he's he's gone.
01:25:00.079 --> 01:25:00.319
Yeah.
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:00.640
Yeah.
01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:03.760
We get a repeat of putting a body in the car.
01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:07.760
Yes, it seemed unlikely last time, it seems even more unlikely this time.
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:08.319
Yes.
01:25:08.560 --> 01:25:14.079
And then just when we couldn't get any more unlikely, we take her to the beach.
01:25:14.399 --> 01:25:15.920
Now this feels strange to me.
01:25:16.159 --> 01:25:20.399
They have mentioned in passing something about going to the beach once before.
01:25:21.359 --> 01:25:25.760
I think not long before this, she says something like we could go to the beach, like when I was little.
01:25:25.920 --> 01:25:26.239
Yeah.
01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:32.560
I do think, as a storytelling thing, we should have seen them at the beach as youngsters in the flashback part.
01:25:33.119 --> 01:25:39.039
You know, when she's saying that she wants an ice cream or something, she should have run out to the ice cream man on the beach.
01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:41.199
It should have been like a end of the pier.
01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:51.199
End of the pier, and we should have seen them playing on the beach for a little bit because otherwise it feels really weird that everything basically takes place in that house.
01:25:51.279 --> 01:25:57.760
It's such a contained space, and we start to, as an audience, which is something I really like, know every inch of it.
01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:04.000
We know the phone downstairs, we know about the buzzer, we understand that space and what is there.
01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:10.960
So now to be at the beach feels weird and is weird because there's a lot of people there.
01:26:11.199 --> 01:26:12.399
Oh god, right.
01:26:13.359 --> 01:26:14.960
So there's there isn't when they turn up.
01:26:15.199 --> 01:26:17.199
She takes her there at night, yeah.
01:26:17.439 --> 01:26:24.159
And then we get this shot that is time passing because the beach has got busier, it's daytime.
01:26:24.319 --> 01:26:24.640
Yeah.
01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:30.560
And we get this radio sort of voiceover that says they found Elvira's body.
01:26:30.720 --> 01:26:31.039
Yeah.
01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:34.159
They think Jane might have abducted Blanche.
01:26:34.479 --> 01:26:36.079
Yes, so they know the whole story basically.
01:26:36.239 --> 01:26:38.079
And so they're they're looking for her.
01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:43.760
And then we do see a shot of a newspaper with a uh picture of Elvira, which is really quite sad actually.
01:26:44.079 --> 01:26:49.520
Then no one has noticed Jane on the beach with her living corpse sister.
01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:50.319
Yes.
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:55.760
So on this beach, full of people in the 60s, having a groovy old time.
01:26:56.000 --> 01:27:06.319
Yes, there is uh like I would say a woman in her 60s, dressed as a child, with a woman who's clearly almost dead lying next to her.
01:27:06.640 --> 01:27:12.000
Now I know on the beach you do your own thing, but I would suggest that someone would have noticed.
01:27:12.479 --> 01:27:15.439
It crossed my mind, right, it crossed my mind.
01:27:15.680 --> 01:27:18.880
Did they look at Blanche and think she was sunbathing?
01:27:19.279 --> 01:27:23.600
And then I realised she was basically wrapped in a black shroud.
01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:24.399
Yes.
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:27.279
Because not in a good way.
01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:32.000
If you have someone who's nearly dying, sunbathing is totally an option for them.
01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:35.199
But don't wrap them in a heavy black wool blanket.
01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:37.600
No, that's the thing that would arouse suspicion for me.
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.720
Or possibly them going, help.
01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:44.640
Because I know that she's whispering.
01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:46.079
She's very low on energy.
01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:46.720
Yes.
01:27:47.119 --> 01:27:48.000
But still.
01:27:48.479 --> 01:27:50.640
She hasn't eaten, she probably hasn't drunk anything now.
01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:52.800
She's had her arms above her head.
01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:58.159
The police realise there are some police at the beach for some reason buying an ice cream.
01:27:58.319 --> 01:27:58.560
Yep.
01:27:58.800 --> 01:27:59.680
And then they realise.
01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:01.199
Have you ever been to McDonald's?
01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:03.359
There's always a policeman there, alright?
01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:06.079
That's the inner city.
01:28:06.239 --> 01:28:12.159
Um they realise that the car down the road is the the car.
01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:13.760
They sort of realise that they must be arrested.
01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:16.239
Yes, they've got a report of what car they drive and everything.
01:28:16.479 --> 01:28:19.920
Then weird old lady Jane plays with children.
01:28:20.479 --> 01:28:20.800
Yes.
01:28:21.199 --> 01:28:23.520
That doesn't raise an up about an eyelid for the parents.
01:28:24.159 --> 01:28:27.279
Really wants them to throw the ball to her and they really do not want to.
01:28:27.520 --> 01:28:27.760
No.
01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:28.239
Yeah.
01:28:28.720 --> 01:28:30.239
Then we get the confession.
01:28:30.479 --> 01:28:32.159
She goes back to Blanche.
01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:33.279
Yeah.
01:28:33.760 --> 01:28:38.640
Who I mean the makeup is gone to a really grotesque place now.
01:28:38.880 --> 01:28:39.840
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
01:28:39.920 --> 01:28:40.159
Yeah.
01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:42.720
I crippled myself.
01:28:43.039 --> 01:28:44.239
It's a weird confession.
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:45.840
It's an odd confession, yes.
01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:47.119
I hid the gates.
01:28:47.359 --> 01:28:48.720
I snapped my spine.
01:28:49.119 --> 01:28:52.640
So everything we thought is back to front, basically.
01:28:53.039 --> 01:28:53.279
Yeah.
01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:56.640
She tells her So Blanche is dying.
01:28:57.119 --> 01:29:01.359
And she tells Jane, you weren't driving, you were too drunk.
01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:01.920
Yeah.
01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:05.279
I wanted to run you down.
01:29:05.680 --> 01:29:06.000
Yes.
01:29:06.399 --> 01:29:08.720
You jumped out of the way just in time.
01:29:09.039 --> 01:29:13.199
And so her hitting the gates was what ended up making her disabled.
01:29:13.359 --> 01:29:13.760
Yes.
01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:19.119
But because Baby Jane was so drunk, she really didn't realise any of this.
01:29:19.359 --> 01:29:27.760
So wherever she went off to, when like she sobered up in three days' time or whatever, she was being blamed for the accident.
01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:33.439
So their whole life has been a life of resentment built on the wrong thing.
01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:37.680
Then we get the most backhanded compliment you could ever receive.
01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:39.840
You weren't ugly then.
01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:42.000
Great.
01:29:42.239 --> 01:29:43.199
These are camp lines.
01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:44.479
That is a camp line.
01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:45.520
It is, isn't it?
01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:46.399
Yeah.
01:29:46.960 --> 01:29:58.239
Suddenly, the police go towards Jane and everybody simultaneously notices her at once.
01:29:58.399 --> 01:30:00.720
There is a shot of probably about 50 people.
01:30:00.960 --> 01:30:01.199
Yeah.
01:30:01.359 --> 01:30:04.319
They all turn their heads and get up simultaneously.
01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:10.800
What happens here is like a zombie movie because uh they were totally invisible to everyone.
01:30:11.039 --> 01:30:17.199
There's two weirdos on the beach were invisible, and then she went to get two strawberry ice creams.
01:30:17.359 --> 01:30:17.760
Yes.
01:30:17.920 --> 01:30:22.159
And when she brought them back, suddenly everybody couldn't do anything else.
01:30:22.239 --> 01:30:23.600
They're like drawn to her.
01:30:23.680 --> 01:30:23.920
Yeah.
01:30:24.079 --> 01:30:28.239
They're all getting up, whatever they were doing, and it's encircling her.
01:30:28.399 --> 01:30:28.720
Yeah.
01:30:28.880 --> 01:30:30.079
It's it's very odd.
01:30:30.399 --> 01:30:33.039
But she's finally got an audience again, so she dances.
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:33.680
Yes.
01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:34.239
Yes.
01:30:34.319 --> 01:30:34.640
She does.
01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:37.039
Whilst Blanche just dies off in the corner.
01:30:37.359 --> 01:30:38.960
Well, this is the thing I wrote.
01:30:39.039 --> 01:30:40.640
We never know if she lives or dies.
01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:42.560
The police go over to her.
01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:44.239
We never see her die.
01:30:44.560 --> 01:30:48.079
I absolutely think she could have lived because I think so.
01:30:48.319 --> 01:30:52.399
I think although she was in a wheelchair, she was totally healthy.
01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:53.119
Yes.
01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:58.000
Until she started being starved and um, you know, didn't have anything to drink and whatever.
01:30:58.159 --> 01:31:00.079
So there didn't seem to be anything wrong with her.
01:31:00.319 --> 01:31:02.720
So I think she totally could live.
01:31:03.600 --> 01:31:08.960
She yeah, she could, but I think it I think it's interesting that they choose to leave it open-ended.
01:31:09.279 --> 01:31:09.920
Yes.
01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:11.039
Yeah.
01:31:11.279 --> 01:31:16.880
And presumably Baby Jane will now go and spend the rest of her life in prison because she killed Elvira.
01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:18.560
Oh yes.
01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:20.880
I forgot that bit.
01:31:21.119 --> 01:31:21.439
Yes.
01:31:21.680 --> 01:31:21.840
Yeah.
01:31:22.079 --> 01:31:22.319
Yes.
01:31:22.560 --> 01:31:31.359
She's not is she she was mean to the sister, but she did kill the maid, so Yes, I think she would have diminished responsibility grounds.
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:32.319
Yes.
01:31:32.560 --> 01:31:32.880
Yeah.
01:31:33.119 --> 01:31:35.119
But you know, she would still certainly be.
01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:36.560
Here's a question for you.
01:31:36.720 --> 01:31:37.039
Yes.
01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:49.359
If Blanche does live, would she sort of be like, you know, throw, you know, lock her up and throw away the key, or would she sort of testify on her behalf, you know, she wasn't mentally right at the time?
01:31:49.760 --> 01:31:51.680
She would absolutely testify on her behalf.
01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:53.119
Yeah, I think so too.
01:31:53.520 --> 01:31:56.159
Because there's a real connection between them.
01:31:56.479 --> 01:32:00.560
There's a connection, and she's always had this guilt about the truth about the accident.
01:32:00.720 --> 01:32:11.199
But even before that, she had Blanche locked brought into her contract with like there's some sort of there's this like invisible thread between them.
01:32:11.520 --> 01:32:15.680
But there's a twisted relationship there, and yeah, I absolutely agree.
01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:27.520
But I like, and I don't want to bring us down, no, but I really do question the relationship between the father and Jane.
01:32:28.399 --> 01:32:29.039
Yeah.
01:32:30.159 --> 01:32:34.960
To what sort of creepy degree that went to.
01:32:35.439 --> 01:32:35.920
Yes.
01:32:36.159 --> 01:32:50.000
But also from another, even if we don't take it down that road, I think Blanche as a child would have seen all these awful things going on with her sister.
01:32:50.079 --> 01:32:55.359
Because there were, you know, like I say, it would still be like, no, you get out there, you own us the money, I don't care if you're tired.
01:32:55.600 --> 01:32:56.239
Yeah.
01:32:57.279 --> 01:33:10.000
And I so I sort of think Blanche's life and Blanche's success is always going to be built on that foundation of what Jane had to go through to get them to a place of success.
01:33:10.319 --> 01:33:10.720
Yeah.
01:33:10.880 --> 01:33:12.159
It's interesting, isn't it?
01:33:12.319 --> 01:33:12.640
Yeah.
01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:18.479
The relationship sort of reminds me of um the sisters in Gypsy.
01:33:18.720 --> 01:33:19.119
Yes.
01:33:19.359 --> 01:33:30.880
It's very, very similar in um the way it's kind of sold to you, and obviously Gypsy as a whole focuses more on the relationship with the mother, where the mother in this is totally ignored.
01:33:31.039 --> 01:33:31.199
Yeah.
01:33:31.439 --> 01:33:50.800
But the y these kind of family things where the kids are put in this position of being the one to earn the money, there's a strange kind of tie that even though you are being like potentially like abused or or just used, whatever, there there's a a tie there that keeps you coming back to your family.
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:51.520
And yeah.
01:33:51.680 --> 01:33:55.680
I was interested because I it ri they really reminded me of the sisters from Gypsy.
01:33:55.760 --> 01:33:56.079
Yeah.
01:33:56.239 --> 01:33:58.079
So I was like, is it based on them?
01:33:58.159 --> 01:34:03.119
It apparently is based on different uh because Gypsy's based on a real person.
01:34:03.439 --> 01:34:03.680
Yes.
01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:09.920
Um and this was apparently um partially inspired by different fictional uh no real life um sisters.
01:34:10.159 --> 01:34:10.720
Oh, okay.
01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:15.600
But do you know like when Gypsy was released in comparison with this?
01:34:15.920 --> 01:34:18.640
It was it I think it was around the same time, wasn't it?
01:34:18.880 --> 01:34:19.760
One day different.
01:34:20.000 --> 01:34:20.640
One day?
01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:21.279
Yeah, yeah.
01:34:21.520 --> 01:34:28.800
So you could go to the cinema, you could watch Gypsy, and then go and watch whatever happened to Baby Jane.
01:34:28.960 --> 01:34:29.840
Yeah, basically.
01:34:30.079 --> 01:34:32.560
Oh, what a homosexual opening weekend.
01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:34.079
It's mad, isn't it?
01:34:34.640 --> 01:34:35.119
That's crazy.
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:37.920
It's like I was like And so thematically similar.
01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:39.119
It's so similar.
01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:41.359
Like very different interpretations.
01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:42.720
Yeah, absolutely.
01:34:42.800 --> 01:34:58.319
But yeah, I was I was really immediately struck by how similar the sisters are, the little blonde ringlety sister, and then this other sister who c steps out from being kind of you know, uh the the shy or whatever one to the the bigger star.
01:34:58.640 --> 01:35:01.520
And um I was like, it's got to be inspired by them.
01:35:01.600 --> 01:35:06.479
Apparently it wasn't, but the fact that they both came out one day different, yeah.
01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:10.239
Because when I saw it was the same year, I was like, well, how close was one day?
01:35:10.399 --> 01:35:12.000
So that is wild to me.
01:35:12.319 --> 01:35:20.159
And it's sort of interesting that Baby Jane kicked off the psycho biddy genre and it's attributed to them, yeah.
01:35:20.319 --> 01:35:24.960
Whereas actually I think you could say the same of Mama Rose.
01:35:25.359 --> 01:35:37.680
Like it's not I don't I you're not necessarily down the psycho route necessarily as much as well, definitely not as much, because she doesn't smash any burlesque dancers' heads in with a hand.
01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:39.680
No no, she doesn't go quite that far.
01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:45.920
But there's there is it's like almost like there was something in the water of like There was there's like a synergy between the two things.
01:35:46.159 --> 01:35:49.279
Of s a sort of strong um older female character.
01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:49.840
Yeah.
01:35:50.079 --> 01:35:50.479
Yeah.
01:35:50.720 --> 01:35:56.479
But it's weird, sometimes that happens with like I remember there being two films inspired by Snow White at the same time.
01:35:56.720 --> 01:35:57.680
Yeah, I remember that.
01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:01.600
Two films about you know, like um an asteroid and whatever.
01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:15.600
It's like there's there's sometimes there's something in the ether where people have been drawn to the similar sort of themes, and there's definitely a lot of themes in those that are but if you want something fun, you'd watch gypsy.
01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:16.159
Yes.
01:36:16.239 --> 01:36:16.479
Yes.
01:36:16.720 --> 01:36:21.760
If you want some fun and some colour, and you know, as a musical, it operates in that sort of camp.
01:36:21.840 --> 01:36:29.359
You can have gypsy, but this is a very different kind of uh It's a very different kind of camp to anything we've encountered so far.
01:36:29.600 --> 01:36:30.079
It is.
01:36:30.399 --> 01:36:34.159
It's uh and this is a film I I would sit and watch it again.
01:36:34.399 --> 01:36:35.840
Like I don't hate the film.
01:36:36.079 --> 01:36:36.479
No, no.
01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:39.279
I just I I took issue with some of it.
01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:41.039
I think there are definitely questions to be answered.
01:36:41.119 --> 01:36:53.119
I think on on the same token, the way that they treat disability as a kind of plot point is not necessarily something that I would want to see people doing.
01:36:53.279 --> 01:37:05.039
Like if somebody's sitting down to write a story now, you know, having did I make you disabled or to make myself disabled as a plot point, I I wouldn't suggest that somebody go down that route.
01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:09.680
But I never like to like throw away things from the past.
01:37:10.079 --> 01:37:11.039
No, absolutely not.
01:37:11.279 --> 01:37:15.520
Because actually, if you do that, quite a lot of the time you won't have any representation left.
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:16.319
Do you know what I mean?
01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:20.239
You won't have an interesting story about a disabled person, you'll just have nothing.
01:37:20.399 --> 01:37:20.560
Yeah.
01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:22.000
So I definitely think it's good.
01:37:22.479 --> 01:37:26.000
There's problems with you know those kind of representations.
01:37:26.319 --> 01:37:32.399
But I what compels me with this are those two central performances.
01:37:32.560 --> 01:37:32.800
Yeah.
01:37:32.960 --> 01:37:37.119
Like it's just it they're electric when you watch them with their arguments.
01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:57.199
And as I say, I'm sure I would be terrified of both of those women in real life, but I'm so glad to be able to see them like yeah, especially as they're in old in their older life, they're no longer playing just the ingenues or whatever, they're playing something that's really interesting and unusual one.
01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:59.600
I just I find it electric.
01:37:59.680 --> 01:38:00.239
I love it.
01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:00.960
I love it.
01:38:02.319 --> 01:38:06.880
So that was the Camp Icons episode on whatever happened to Baby Jane.
01:38:06.960 --> 01:38:08.640
Certainly a bit of a different one this week.
01:38:08.880 --> 01:38:10.880
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:20.800
Um, if you have enjoyed this week's episode, please like, subscribe, do all of those things to help us get up the rankings and get us into more people's ears.
01:38:21.039 --> 01:38:22.239
That's where we want to be.
01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:27.920
You can also follow our social media accounts on Instagram and TikTok.
01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:29.840
We are at Camp Icons Podcast.
01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:35.439
That is at Camp Icons Podcast, and our Facebook page is Camp Icons Podcast.
01:38:36.159 --> 01:38:37.840
What are you laughing at?
01:38:38.239 --> 01:38:40.000
You're saying it with the spaces.
01:38:40.159 --> 01:38:43.279
I just as soon as I figured that out, it just makes me laugh.
01:38:43.600 --> 01:38:45.600
Thank you very much for listening.
01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:51.760
Next week we are we're taking a bit of another pivot uh in the camp stratosphere.
01:38:51.840 --> 01:38:52.079
I don't know.
01:38:52.640 --> 01:38:53.439
Stratosphere, I don't know.
01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:55.520
We're all over the place.
01:38:55.840 --> 01:39:01.439
We are looking at something that I think is actually identified as very straight.
01:39:02.560 --> 01:39:03.600
But camp.
01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:05.039
But definitely camp.
01:39:05.279 --> 01:39:12.880
We are going to the world we're going to the world wrestling entertainment thing.
01:39:14.960 --> 01:39:21.680
We're looking at it wasn't my idea, and we're looking to be looking at some classic wrestling clips.
01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:26.159
Although what I've discovered, there's not actually a lot of wrestling goes on.
01:39:27.520 --> 01:39:30.479
So thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you next week.
01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:31.039
Bye.