Barbara Windsor

WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to Camp Icons.
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I'm Nick.
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I'm Liz.
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How are you, Liz?
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We've had a break, haven't we?
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Oh, I've it's been dreadful.
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I've missed you.
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I've missed you so much.
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I've been having the time of my life.
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Well there you go.
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That's had two lives, isn't it?
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I've missed you two.
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What have you been doing then?
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I've been at the Edinburgh Festival in an adult improvised pantomime.
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So I've been uh daming up.
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It's quite camp, isn't it?
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It's very camp.
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Um there was a photo that I sent you during the run of where I'd sort of lost it a little bit and I just those lips, I was there was more lip than anything else on my face.
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Overdrawing them to a point where it looked like you'd just smashed a tomato on your face.
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Um they were they were mental breakdown lips.
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And if you're lucky, you may get to see that on our social media.
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We should have uh we should have an OnlyFans for that.
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I don't think we should.
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I think there's a lot that people will pay for, but I'm not even sure I can give that away.
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But yes, we are back in your spare room.
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Hooray.
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To continue our crusade through camp.
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An Odyssey of Camp.
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Yes.
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And this week we are looking at the one, the only, the British icon, Barbara Windsor.
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Right, so I'm just gonna start by saying I love Barbara Windsor.
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Yes, good.
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Yes.
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I well, we should get that out of the way first of all, because I think she's great.
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It was she's just she is like a a a legendary figure.
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She was part of two great British institutions, I think.
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Yes.
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In the carry-on films and then later in her career in EastEnders.
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Yes.
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And do you want to address right now um how we have chosen to attire ourselves?
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I don't know what you're talking about.
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Because I think we've both gone Peggy.
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Yes.
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Which is her character in EastEnders, of course, Peggy Mitchell.
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You've gone I would say later, Peggy Mitchell.
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Right.
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I think you're just calling me old.
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No No no no, because uh Peggy's hair went on a journey.
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Oh yes, yeah, yeah.
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I know what you're saying.
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You are sort of latter-day Peggy.
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Yes.
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Yeah, when it's uh it's straight but up.
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Yes, a big hive.
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A big high almost beehive like.
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Yes.
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Because in her life often the hair was high.
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Yes.
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Very high.
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You have on your head a yellow curly wig.
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Yes.
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Which are you saying this is early, Peggy?
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Early to mid.
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Early to mid.
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You are going to see this hairstyle later on in one of the clips.
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I'll look out for it.
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Yes.
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Okay, good.
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We we'll do a side-by-side comparison.
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Oh yes, I'll enjoy that.
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Yeah.
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I'll I'll sit next to the laptop when I press play.
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And I might lip sync along with the scene.
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Oh wow.
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Because um you really you really, I think, are attached to Peggy Mitchell uh as a character.
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I'm I'm attached to Barbara Windsor.
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I I would say that I grew up on carry-ons and east enders.
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Yeah.
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And food, like I food.
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That wasn't my sustenance.
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Yeah.
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Of carry-on and east enders.
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Yes.
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And look what happened.
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But I mean I would say carry-on kind of influenced a lot of my comedy stylings, if you will.
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I won't.
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Um yeah.
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I think yes, I I think we mentioned this because we have done a a carry-on icon before.
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Yes, Kenneth Williams.
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We did a Kenneth Williams episode.
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And yeah, I I love her in those films, and I also grew up with EastEnders.
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I f this feels like a time when everybody was watching EastEnders.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So there's yes, she feels very familiar from those roles.
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Yes.
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I don't know if I know as much about her as a person as some other people that we've done.
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Okay, so what else do you know about her?
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Well, I think she's just about you know She's just about it she had a very, very long career is what I I suppose I mean.
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She did.
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And so you don't think of there being anything that she couldn't do.
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She was always, you know, a very famous person.
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Um I think from back in the 60s when she did carry-on and also um other films, and I sort of I d what I'm trying to not say is that I remember her from Carry On, EastEnders, and the Garlabingo advert.
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We all remember her from the Garlabingo advert.
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It's very latter-day Barbara.
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Well, it was just after she had left East Enders.
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That was the pretty much one of the first things she did.
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Was it really?
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And I remember at the time thinking, what are you doing?
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What are you doing, Barbara?
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But then in later life I learnt how much adverts pay and Yes, and Willie Morgan.
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Yeah.
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No.
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So she was born Barbara Ann Deeks on the 6th of August 1937.
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Okay.
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The name Windsor is a stage name, and it came later in her career when the Queen was coronated.
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Really?
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She literally took the name Windsor from the Queen.
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Oh, well, there you go.
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Okay.
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She was placed into dance classes during a time when she was evacuated and staying with a family friend.
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And she seemed to instantly take to it.
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When she was sent back to London, she was sent with a note from her dance teacher that said, Barbara is a born show-off who loves to perform.
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Lovely.
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Oh, okay.
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Teachers so often spot things that yeah, are really crucial to somebody's career.
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So that's a really interesting.
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I yeah, I'm not sure if the dance teacher was necessarily being complimentary.
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Not sure, but I feel like even just knowing that you stand out, like sometimes that works.
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Yeah.
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Uh I should say now, uh, I've got my information this week from Barbara Windsor's autobiography.
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Oh yes.
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It's called All of Me.
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All of Me.
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All of Me, yes.
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Uh, here it is.
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It's pink.
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It's pink.
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And this is the copy that I bought when it was originally published.
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See, I tried to accuse you of being very attached to Barbara Windsor, and uh it's true, it's all true.
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Yeah.
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So how how old was she when this was uh published?
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So this was published.
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Because people do them now when they're like 21 or something.
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She was when this came out, she was 64.
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Okay, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um as you can see, it's been quite well thumbed.
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Yes.
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I have read it several times.
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Um amazing.
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Because there are very few books that I've read more than once.
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You know, like maybe 1984 or something.
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But you've you've really delved deep into the Barbara Windsor Autobiography.
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The thing is, like I'd like to point out, I don't read it every week.
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No, no, no, no.
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And don't be silly.
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I always leave enough time so that I sort of forget what's in it, if that makes sense.
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Right.
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And there were things on this read that still made me go, what?
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Incredible.
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Um we'll get to those, but yeah.
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So when she came back to London, she was sent to Madame Bahana's juvenile jollities.
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No, that has to be made up.
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No, it's not made up, but I had to include it because that is a camp name.
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Oh, it is?
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Yes.
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It's incredible.
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I mean, calling yourself Madam outside of the four walls of a brothel is a bold choice.
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It's already bold.
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Yes.
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Juvenile Jollities, was it?
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Oh my god.
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Imagine trying to start that as a business now.
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I know.
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Okay.
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She got the highest 11 plus mark in North London in the year that she took it.
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Okay.
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I didn't expect that.
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That's a very interesting fact.
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No, and she got a scholarship to a Catholic school.
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Right.
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But she got into an argument with the Reverend Mother and was expelled when they wouldn't let her go and do a pantomime.
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No.
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Yeah.
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Goodness me.
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Yeah.
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She started appearing in shows and was one day given an audition for Joan Littlewood's theatre workshop.
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Now, this is fascinating to me as a theatre sort of nerd, because you if you think of her as like a carry-on star, you maybe think of that as quite lowbrow sort of comedy.
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Yes.
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And Joan Littlewood's theatre workshop is like at that time like the cutting edge of like theatre and stuff.
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It's much more Yeah, and it's still something that is cited now within theatre history as quite a groundbreaking thing.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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She turned up on the day of her audition to the theatre and found a woman outside sweeping leaves off of the steps and said, I'm here for the audition.
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And the woman said, Oh, it's round the back.
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Something along the lines of Are you excited or whatever?
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And she responded, I'm not really interested in it because I'm more West End and this is East End, so I'm I don't really care about it.
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She went in and she did the audition and she was stopped by a voice in the crowd who she then discovered was the woman that had been sweeping the leaves from the steps.
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Of course.
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Who was Joan Littlewood who said, You got the part before you stepped in the building.
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Oh wow.
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Yeah.
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Game recognises game.
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Yeah.
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This is incredible.
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She described working with Littlewood as formative.
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It was where she learnt her craft as an actress.
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Yeah.
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She'd done a lot of kind of singing and ensemble dancey type stuff before, but she really stepped into being an actress in this world.
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She was in a piece called Things Ain't What They Used To Be.
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Right.
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Then Littlewood fought for her to be in a film called Sparrows Can't Sing.
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Yes, I've seen Sparrows Can't Sing.
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So I've got a copy of it somewhere that I was going to bring today and I couldn't find it.
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I've watched it a while back.
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Yeah.
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And it is an interesting mix of so at that time something they're really exploring is this kind of the non-glamorous, the real working lives of people.
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And there there is a scene where I I I think I'm remembering this right, where you just look into all of these rooms in this working class kind of council block of you know tower block, and you see all these kind of like gritty lives, and Barbara Wins just sort of looks in and giggles at all of them.
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And she feels very Barbara Windsor in this world of un you know, unglamorously, you know, washing the baby in the kitchen sink and all this.
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You know, is the kitchen sink kind of era.
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So for that, she was nominated for a BAFTA for best leading actress.
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Amazing, yeah.
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Yeah.
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She's someone that you don't look back on now and necessarily consider was getting big acting accolades.
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Absolutely.
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I think that's been forgotten, written out of her story, yeah.
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Completely.
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She then went to Broadway with theatre workshop.
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She went to Broadway to appear in Oh What a Lovely War.
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Yeah, which was a huge hit for theatre workshop.
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She kind of I don't know, cemented them in like a wider sort of knowledge, I think.
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Yeah, it just it was still experimental and still kind of like groundbreaking, but that going to Broadway and stuff is really making them uh making their name for themselves.
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So this is something that shocked me, and I had to go back and read it again to make sure that I was fully digesting.
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Barbara Windsor is a Tony nominated actress.
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Okay, yes, you you're so right.
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That doesn't seem possible, does it?
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No.
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She was nominated for Best Featured Actress in Oh What a Lovely War on Broadway.
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And again, I I know of Oh What a Lovely War, and I don't associate her with it.
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Which is she stayed famous and that has stayed famous, but they've just been separated from each other.
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And the fact that she won a Tony, I don't remember.
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She did win the Tony, she was nominated for Tony.
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She was nominated for a Tony.
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Never heard in my life.
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I can't think I've ever heard that.
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For a bit of context, yeah.
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Um, on what was going on on Broadway at the same time that she was there.
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Yes, this is what I need.
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In two theatres down the road from Oh What a Lovely War, you had Barbara Streisand in Funny Girl and Carol Channing in Hello Dolly.
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Oh it's incredible.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Outside of this, she sort of made some other films, but she was primarily a theatre performer.
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And I said to you before we started, it was kind of a little difficult to find clips of her.
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Yes.
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But so much of her career was spent on the stage.
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Yeah.
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And again, we look at it now and we go, well, she was in Carrion and she was on Extenders, and it's all these sort of screen things that she's remembered for.
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She played Marie Lloyd in a tour about her life.
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And she also starred in The Beggars Opera opposite Vanessa Redgrave.
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Which again, Vanessa Redgrave is so famous and a pinnacle of like theatre, like high ground theatre.
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Yes.
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So you just you don't think of those two being together in the same world.
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No, absolutely not.
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She was um she was a bit of a firecracker, was our bar.
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Well, I would I had imagined so, and I'm glad to hear it.
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Yes.
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:40.080
She was working at a club as a singer once, and the manager pressured her into having a drink with a customer, and she kept saying, No, I'm a singer, I'm not here to be a hostess.
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:46.080
She said in her autobiography, I picked up the bucket of ice we used to call ourselves between numbers and chucked it at him.
00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.200
Then I stormed out of the room and out of the club, leaving him drenched.
00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.360
Sod it, I thought, I couldn't care less.
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:52.480
Oh, good for her.
00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:53.200
Yeah.
00:14:53.440 --> 00:15:01.360
I think it's probably the only way she could have survived the sort of environments that she's been put into in that time.
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:01.840
Yes.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:13.679
You know, as an attractive woman singing in clubs or whatever or, you know, whatever she's performing, there's a certain expectation of what she's gonna say yes to.
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.879
So she had to be really feisty to to survive in that.
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:32.559
When she's was starring in her first carry-on film, which was carry-on spying, she had been warned that Kenneth Williams had a bit of a reputation for not being particularly pleasant to the new young actresses that came in.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:33.120
Yes.
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:38.720
She said she went in on her first day and her first take, her first line, she fluffed it.
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:39.440
Oh god.
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:43.840
And he said to her, Oh, do get it right, Ducky.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.399
At the time they were making this scene, he was wearing a fake beard.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:53.039
I don't know how familiar you are with carry-on camping, but he had like a big fake spying.
00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:54.000
Spi spying.
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:54.799
Did I say camping?
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:55.840
You did say camping.
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:56.879
You can't wait to get to it.
00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:57.840
I can't, no.
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.240
I've I have it's been a long time since I've seen Carry On Spying, but I can imagine him.
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:03.519
Is it in a Fez?
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:04.320
Is that him?
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:05.200
Yes, I think so.
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:06.720
Fez and the beard.
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:18.399
She said, Having heard he had fallen out with the actress Fanella Fielding, I pulled myself up to my full four feet ten and a half inches and replied, Don't you yell at meal with Vanella Fielding's min ja stuck round your chops.
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.080
I won't bloody stand for it.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:27.600
She says, You could hear a pin drop on the set because no one knew how he was gonna respond.
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:28.639
I I bet.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:29.120
Yeah.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.720
And he just burst out laughing and said, Oh, isn't she wonderful?
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.000
And they were like firm friends from that moment on.
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:36.559
Wow.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:38.000
Well that's the way to do it.
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:38.399
Yeah.
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:39.039
Gosh.
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.320
Yeah, she stood up to him and Yeah, he respected it.
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:53.360
So, as I say, she was then cast in the carry-on series and she c became synonymous with her roles as a fun-loving good-time gal.
00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:55.039
Yes, let's say that.
00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:57.919
How how else would you put it?
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.679
No, no, no, I would, I would.
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:11.440
I think I I really enjoy her performance in the carry-on films because she is she's always cast as incredibly sexy, but she seems to be having a good time of it.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:20.240
She brings an energy to them sometimes as well, where so I've recently been embarking on a rewatch of all of the carry-on films in order.
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.480
I'm still not at the end yet, but we're getting there.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:22.880
Okay.
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:36.640
But you sort of go through those first films that are all in black and white, and they're of a 1950s Britain that's like dare I say, maybe a little bit stuffy, maybe a little bit it's all quite stiff upper lip.
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:37.920
It's Yes.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:46.240
And then she comes in and she's just so different to anything else that's on the screen, and she feels like a new era.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:46.720
Yeah.
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:47.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:47.599
Yeah.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:55.759
I think yeah, I know what you're saying because she does have great energy and she always brings it to whatever she's being asked to do.
00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.400
So yes, there is something a slightly older English about some of those early ones.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:13.359
And this this new era with her has it has it a kind of sauciness that feels it might feel different now, but I think at the time felt youthful and new.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:14.880
So yeah.
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:22.960
She made the carry-on films, and unfortunately, they had a slight detrimental effect on her career.
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:23.839
Yeah.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:29.279
Because she was no longer seen as a serious actress.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:47.599
No, she's been typecast as uh and she is really fun in those films, but you can see something that is that iconic and yeah, uh certainly it's lasted in our memories that she is the kind of saucy girl from that rather than a serious actress.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.079
Rather than she was nominated for a bathroom and a Tony.
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:50.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:55.200
Her career kept going, like she was never sort of out of work or anything.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:02.160
She was starting to think that she might switch careers and become a theatrical agent.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.720
But she started thinking she might be an agent rather than continue performing.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.680
And around the same time she was called up by EastEnders.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:12.720
Right.
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:17.759
They assumed that she wouldn't want the matriarchal role of Peggy.
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.319
And she said, But that's the role.
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.319
That's exactly the role she wanted at exactly the right time.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:28.799
Wow, she knew what she was gonna do.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:34.559
She started she talked with them for a bit and then they went silent.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:44.160
And she thought it was because a compilation of carry-on clips had played on the TV during the negotiations, and they'd looked at it and gone, oh, oh no, actually.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:44.960
Oh really?
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:45.200
Yeah.
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.599
She so she it was so in her mind that that was a detrimental thing.
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:50.640
She thought she'd lost it.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:51.359
Completely.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:57.200
She went in uh in '93, I think it was 1993, she started playing Peggy.
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.960
And she stayed in the role until 2009.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:01.839
Wow.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:07.759
But making frequent guest appearances until she requested that the character was killed off in 2016.
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:13.680
She basically said, All the while she's still there, I'm always going to be tempted to go back.
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:15.519
So let's draw a line under it.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.240
That's that uh that again is really interesting.
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:25.759
It's like um Yeah, they could always talk her into it going back because there's just so much temptation.
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:35.200
And I don't know if that comes from money or if it was like the love of the character, and you know, they would say, Oh, but we're gonna do this.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:48.640
Because there was some this is a thing, there were some really fun storylines that she was part of in EastEnders, and I can imagine being very tempted to go back and just have just have a laugh.
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:56.799
Like they were I think now we kind of have boiled it down to that impression of her going, go on, get out of my pub.
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.640
Yeah, but I d I think it was a huge show.
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:07.680
The so you know, the soaps I think were bigger, and EastEnders was on a high for a lot of the time that she was there.
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:15.759
And the storylines that she had, she had storylines a lot with uh Pat Butcher.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:20.400
Yeah it was just it was great fun TV.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:26.880
It was again, I think the legacy of Peggy is these big clashes.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:35.200
Yes, but one of the storylines that they did with her in the 90s was quite a hard-hitting storyline about Peggy getting breast cancer.
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:36.799
She had breast cancer, I remember.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:56.319
And they did it, I don't know if it was because she was so famous for her breasts in the carry-on films, but that certainly added another dimension to the idea of this person whose career was seen so much by the public as being breast orientated.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:56.799
That's the wish.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:58.960
I do know what you mean.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:21:59.680
It added another.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.680
Yeah, and I remember those scenes.
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:53.519
They're really are powerful because I haven't thought about that in a very long time, but they're still there in my mind of her feeling this kind of yeah, this grief about going through uh you know mastectomy and this sort of uh relationship with her body which was all there on screen and she's doing all this and so very very big storylines for her to take on and yes, interesting interesting about the way that like what you're saying, her her boobs being an iconic part of her, an interesting way to sort of have that storyline in the like public consciousness, soap opera, like the characters so attached to you.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:02.079
There's kind of no distinction between Barbara Windsor and Peggy at that point, that yeah, it all becomes one thing in people's minds.
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.000
It's just yeah.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.200
She was made a dame in 2016.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.599
Dame Barbara Windsor.
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:10.960
Dame Barbara Windsor.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:19.200
Yes, and she passed away in December 2020 after a battle with Alzheimer's.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:25.200
Yeah, which I I feel I remember a lot of this playing out in the press.
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:25.759
Yes.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:31.599
She had a younger husband, and there's a lot of negativity around that.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:32.000
Yeah.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:48.720
And he kind of had to come out and uh disclose the Alzheimer's because people, fans, would come up to her and want to talk to her, and she couldn't react to and you know, it could frighten her because she d didn't react the way they expected, and she didn't necessarily understand what was happening.
00:23:48.880 --> 00:24:01.359
And he I I don't, you know, I don't know much about him, but he had he seemed really protective of her at that point, and it felt like there'd been so much negativity written about him and their relationship.
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:16.000
It was really there was a there was a sadness that I felt about how our media kind of treated them as a couple in her final years, and I think throughout most of their relationship, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:24.160
There was always stuff about them which was just unnecessary, you know, it was their personal lives, and they were both definitely adults.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:29.759
It was you know some other camp snapshots from life with Barbara?
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.920
I would love some, yes, absolutely.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:39.440
Uh in the early 90s, I went round Soho with Julie and Clary handing out condoms in pubs and clubs as part of a national condom drive.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:40.640
Can you imagine?
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.079
No, I was just gonna say, can you imagine that happening?
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:46.720
Yeah, love.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.680
Oh, it was yeah, incredible.
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:52.480
Yeah.
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:58.799
Just before she got East Enders, there I was playing an 18-year-old boy bouncing around on stage with my hot flushes.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:00.400
I thought, bah, this is all wrong.
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.640
This isn't good for you, not at 56.
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:07.359
Who had cast her as an 18-year-old boy?
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.480
She was playing Aladdin.
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:09.599
She was in a pantheon.
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:11.759
Panto is a very weird.
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:13.039
Panto moves differently.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:13.359
Yes.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:14.880
Yes, okay.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:21.440
Would you like to know what she and her third husband, Scott, got up to after their wedding ceremony?
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.799
Well, I mean, will you judge me if I say yes?
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:26.559
No, I won't.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:32.960
And with the help of Champagne, we started singing Martin McCutcheon's hit song, adapting the lyrics for ourselves.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:34.880
This is our perfect moment.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:45.759
That feels dated in a way to a moment in time that I just I can't explain to you.
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:52.799
It's just so much of my like young life comes together in that moment.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:53.680
That sentence.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:54.720
That's so much.
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:55.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.799
I've got to do something now that we don't normally do on this podcast.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:25:59.200
Okay.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:04.960
And the only reason I'm gonna do it is because she is so open about it in her memoir.
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:06.240
Oh good grief.
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:10.160
All of the information is out there and confirmed by Barbara herself.
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:10.640
Okay.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:12.240
We're gonna talk about her love life.
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.480
Oh, well, I always want to talk about this.
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:16.319
So she was married three times.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:16.640
Yeah.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:23.200
She was married to Ronnie Knight, to a guy called Stephen Hollings, and then finally to Scott Mitchell.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:23.680
Okay.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.359
He was called Mitchell.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:25.599
Yeah.
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:26.640
I didn't know that.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.240
Yeah, she became a real-life Mrs.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.599
Mitchell when she married him.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:36.319
Barbara says in the book that she sees a difference between love and sex.
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:38.319
Bic sure, okay.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:44.640
Which I think now as a society we're kind of a bit more on board with in some respects.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.519
Yeah.
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.039
Back when she was married to Ronnie, less so.
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:49.920
Yeah.
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.759
She was not averse to an affair in a one-night stand.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:54.640
Let's put it that way.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:55.519
Right, okay.
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.160
Gotcha.
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:05.200
The list of men include It feels weird doing this, but like I've literally taken it from her own words.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.400
It feels weird to you.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.119
Barbara's fine with it, and I am.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:09.680
Okay.
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:11.759
Reggie Cray.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.880
Right.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:15.119
So one of the Cray brothers.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:16.640
One No no.
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.359
A One Night's Down with Reggie Cray.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:19.680
Yep.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.799
And a slightly longer relationship with Charlie Cray.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:23.440
Oh.
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:24.640
Charlie Cray?
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:25.839
I thought the other one's called Ronnie.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.200
So there's twins, Ronnie and Reggie, and then there's an older brother called Charlie.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:29.759
Great.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.000
Okay.
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:30.799
Yes.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.680
So not just one of the crays.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:34.799
Sorry, sorry.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:37.599
A highly publicised affair with Sid James.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:38.799
Now this I did know of.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:40.799
Who was 24 years her senior.
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:41.279
Yes.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.519
That she starred with in the carry-on films.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:58.079
This always surprised me because when you watch those films, he there's they wouldn't be the only couple on screen where you have a very attractive younger woman with a letteress, unattractive old man.
00:27:58.240 --> 00:27:58.640
Yes.
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:03.039
So the the surprise for me is that that one carried over into real life.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:05.039
Whereas most of them you just ignore.
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.200
So he liked her.
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:07.839
Yeah.
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.240
And was quite persistent about it.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:10.960
Right.
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:16.160
And she says in the book, I thought I'd have sex with him once and it would kind of cool him down.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.319
Oh.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:17.279
Basically.
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:18.079
Yeah.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:19.279
And it didn't.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.359
It just sort of got worse.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.279
And she eventually called it off.
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:30.960
And then he started drinking heavily and shortly afterwards died of a heart attack.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:32.960
I don't think it was her like it wasn't her fault.
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:34.960
No, no, I don't think it was.
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.359
I have to say, I mean, just I'd love the carry-on films.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:40.720
He's not my favourite.
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:47.839
Um and yeah, just depressing kind of uh behaviour from him.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:50.160
Predictable but depressing.
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:52.400
Maurice Gibb?
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:53.920
Oh no, a BG.
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:55.359
A BG, yeah.
00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:02.799
She was in a theatre show with him, acting with him, and they didn't have great chemistry on stage.
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:05.200
So she thought she'd sort it out.
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:08.960
She's such a professional.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:09.440
Yeah.
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:10.960
She said he was fine after that.
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:11.599
Was he?
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.000
Yeah.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:12.720
Alright.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:18.720
I don't I don't I don't know my BGs well enough to know which one he is, but um any of them's not great.
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:20.400
George Best.
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:21.519
George Best.
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:23.599
Now he was a looker and a ladies' man.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:25.759
I mean, these things happen, right?
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.680
Uh Gary Crosby.
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:28.240
Don't know.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.920
Who was Bing Crosby's son?
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:30.559
Okay.
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:31.839
Yep.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:36.000
Um We're getting round a lot of different worlds.
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.240
A lot of lot of worlds.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:39.519
James Booth.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:41.039
Do you know James Booth?
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:42.079
Uh no.
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:44.799
I I don't really either.
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.000
I but I wrote his name down because I was like, I think Liz will know who he is.
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.319
It feels familiar, but it's not coming to me.
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:52.559
I think he's an old film star, basically.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:53.759
Yeah from back in the day.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:54.480
Okay.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.519
And finally, well not finally.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.599
No, no, there's there's loads more we don't know about.
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:00.079
Yeah.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.279
Friend of the pod.
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:02.400
Oh god.
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:03.839
Anthony Newley.
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:04.480
No.
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:09.440
Not Anthony Newley.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:11.920
Oh yes, Anthony Newley.
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:16.160
He's so horrible.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:19.039
Yeah.
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:26.559
We we, me and you cannot see the appeal of Anthony Newley.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.720
But somehow.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.680
Yeah, he's John Collins, Barbara Windsor.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.119
He keeps cropping up, doesn't he?
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:33.920
He keeps cropping up.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.920
She later got him a role in East Enders.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.680
Like a guest stint that they thought was going to turn into like a regular role.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:42.079
Yeah.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.279
Um, but unfortunately his health had other ideas on that.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:45.839
Right.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:47.440
Dear, oh dear.
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:49.519
Yeah, and old Anthony Newley.
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:51.599
Yeah.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:57.759
We're turning now to a new section for the pod, which is called Camp Connections.
00:30:58.720 --> 00:30:59.759
Do we need to jingle?
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:00.799
We need a jingle.
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:01.839
Oh, I don't know.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.079
Oh, or camp connections.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:06.880
Okay, that's your job for the next few weeks.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:21.519
Well, basically, the more I delve into research, the more connections I'm finding between all of these people that we associate with being camp icons.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:22.240
Absolutely.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:24.559
There's a load of crossover.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:37.839
The first ever episode that we did, you said to me that Scylla Black had been friends with Frankie Howard and Dale Winton and Lily Savage and all these people, and I just went, What's going on?
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.640
There's somehow they're all finding each other.
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:41.279
Yes.
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:42.960
They're out at the club.
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:50.400
So I believe we said, and if you're listening and I've got this wrong, please write in.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.519
Please write in.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.839
Send a stamped address envelope.
00:31:54.160 --> 00:32:00.559
I think that Joan Collins introduced Biggins to Scylla.
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:04.000
Do you remember this coming up?
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:06.640
Oh, I don't, I don't remember.
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:11.920
But but all of these people um do seem to know each other.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.039
Also, ding ding ding, we've got a live one.
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.119
She knew Joan Collins.
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:17.599
Right.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.480
Well, there should be some kind of bingo board that we have.
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.039
Do you think I should try and put like a family tree?
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:23.279
Yeah.
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:27.119
Where they're all Joan Collins is the centre square of bingo.
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:27.519
Yes.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:29.519
Biggins is another pillar.
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:30.000
Okay.
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:30.720
Yeah.
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:31.839
Here's one for you.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:32.400
Right.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:35.759
It was Barbara that introduced Biggins to Joan Collins.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:36.400
Oh.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:37.119
Yes.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.480
Okay, alright.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:39.920
She says of Biggins.
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:49.119
He's lovely for ladies like us, especially if you haven't got a gentleman to escort you to a premiere, or if you want to go to the movies, or even if you fancy fish and chips.
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:56.480
Every actress should have Biggins in the small print of their contract as an essential.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.000
I love that.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:58.880
Yes.
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:05.119
He's bearding for a whole a whole generation of women.
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:05.680
Yes.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:11.119
He's the, you know, the bloke you want around so that you don't get a hard time from any other blokes.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.480
I love it.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.920
She'd like to know the guest list for her 60th birthday party.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:16.720
Of course.
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:21.039
Now she opens by saying, I was thrilled with the turnout.
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:21.839
Good.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:23.759
Gabby Roslyn.
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:29.359
That feels very you know when I said I was in a Martin McCutcheon perfect moment?
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:29.519
Yeah.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:31.359
Gabby Roslyn feels like she's there.
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:31.759
Yes.
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.000
Gabby Roslyn, John Chalice.
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:34.799
Okay.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.039
Voice C from Only Fools.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.240
She's done quite a few tours with him, I think, in theatre shows.
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:40.640
Right.
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.599
John Inman.
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:42.559
Of course.
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:43.839
Danny LaRue.
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:45.359
Yes, absolutely.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.799
The two Lionels, Bart and Blair.
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:52.559
Lionel Blair.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.720
I just don't think about him anymore.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:56.480
But Dale Winton.
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:57.039
Of course.
00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.880
I told you you'd come up.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:00.799
And Christopher Biggins, of course.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:01.759
Yes, absolutely.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:02.720
Guest of honour.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:03.279
Yeah.
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.759
So we're we're starting to build a picture now for this sort of social group.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:08.639
Oh, we are.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:09.039
Yeah.
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:10.719
I'm building a picture.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.480
Biggins, Winton, Windsor, Scylla.
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:15.599
Oh, that's quite sad.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.159
It's only Biggins that's still alive from that list.
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.000
At time of record.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:22.400
At time of record, Jesus.
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:25.840
Yes, okay, yeah.
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:29.760
So yeah, we're we will explore this further in further weeks.
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:30.480
Yeah.
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.440
I want to know how everything How everything interconnects.
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:35.599
How everything interconnects, this world of camp.
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:36.400
Yeah.
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:49.199
I'm gonna leave you for the sort of life section with a quote that Barbara said when she accepted an award, which I think sums her up, just encapsulates her quite well.
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:54.239
I've had awards for my eyes, my bosoms, my bottom, and even my feet.
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.960
They say actors are only as good as their parts.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.039
Well, my parts have served me pretty well.
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:00.559
Oh, I love it.
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:01.119
Yeah.
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:02.079
Brilliant.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:04.559
Shall we move on to some camp clips?
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:05.360
Let's have it.
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:07.199
Oh, it's been ages since we've done this.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.039
So long since we've had a clip.
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:09.840
I know.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.440
We are going now to 1977.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:20.880
And a TV show that I think we've mentioned before that we've never watched.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:21.360
Okay.
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:23.760
The TV show is The Good Old Days.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:24.880
The Good Old Days.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:35.760
And the point of the show was to present like old music hall and variety acts on TV for a slightly more modern audience.
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:37.039
Slightly.
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:38.000
Yes.
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:41.440
Modern at the time, not modern to us.
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:46.239
So here is Barbara Windsor in an act on the good old days.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.599
Get out of my pub with pleasure.
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:58.320
So there we have Barbara Windsor as Dolores, a magician's assistant, in an act called Marvo and Dolores.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:00.960
Yes, I don't know Marvo.
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:02.719
Is he uh we don't know him.
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.159
Is he an actual magician?
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:05.280
It doesn't seem so.
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.320
I don't think so.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:08.000
The whole thing is a comedy act.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.400
So they're tricks that you would recognise, but not performed well.
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:13.119
Correct.
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:21.440
And I I when you said this is for a more modern audience, I did question that because the good old days, they are all dressed up.
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:28.639
Even the audience are, as though it were an old-fashioned Edwardium Edwardium music hall.
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:29.280
Yeah.
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.280
Um and like we weren't alive in 1977.
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:33.840
No.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:34.320
Right?
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:39.039
But 1977 is like punk has started.
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:46.880
Like this is it feels like this is a oh, wasn't it better in the good old days?
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.360
Let's just pretend all of this modern stuff hasn't happened.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:57.039
And the the what like the concept of this show is camp in itself.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:57.679
Yeah.
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:02.639
Because everyone fully buys into the bit of it being an Edwardian musical.
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:11.360
It's so ridiculous to me to get the audience to dress up and then present this whole thing as though modern society hasn't happened.
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:17.440
And um you do get little flashes of like uh what modern sensibilities are.
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:23.679
So while they're doing their act, you know, initially Babs comes on.
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.880
Yes, and she's in her assistant's outfit, which is quite revealing.
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:29.360
Yes.
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:33.119
They I would say we've got almost a full bum cheek on display.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:33.920
Yes.
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:42.719
And you know, initially, with the help of the orchestra, she's demonstrating ba da where the you know guy's gonna come out.
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.719
And obviously he comes out of the wrong exit, uh entrance, whatever.
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.199
Yeah.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:48.079
You get all that.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:51.599
But then you get them talking to each other and doing little bits.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:38:01.679
Aye Sort sort of meant to be under their breath, but Well, she's leaning fully into the sort of cockney sensibility of the character.
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:03.039
She's full cockney here.
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:04.000
She's full cockney.
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:08.159
We associate her with bit with being Cockney, but this is maximum cockney.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:11.199
Well, it's sort of uh it's sort of carry-on cockney.
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:11.760
Yeah.
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:24.159
It's the the level to which she plays those carry-on characters is now transported into this Yes Cockney magician's assistant.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:26.480
Yeah, so she looks very glam.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:26.719
Yes.
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:34.639
But then when she speaks it's playing with ideas of Oh, it's a bit deep for the first one back.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:36.800
It's playing with ideas of class and gender.
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:37.679
Yes.
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.519
Because traditionally I'm not saying that this is the case.
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:56.480
Traditionally, magician's assistants are sort of quiet women who are there to look pretty and have tricks done to them, basically.
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.239
And they would be voiceless.
00:38:58.480 --> 00:38:58.960
Yes.
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.719
Almost always in this type of act.
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:11.280
Where so we get the kind of her her y voice is supposed to be funny of itself.
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:11.840
Yeah.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:13.440
Don't you talk to me like that.
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:15.440
I'm not your wife, I'm only living with you.
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:22.880
Well, this is what I mean by the modern sort of sensibilities, is they make a joke that yeah, they're just living together and it's Yeah.
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.639
And she she's performing every inch of the character.
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:29.039
There is not a moment wasted in what she's doing.
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:41.840
Oh, listen, when you were talking about dancing earlier, I thought I should have known that she was a dancer because she manages to travel the stage with a little shuffle, and the top half of her doesn't move.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:42.239
No.
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:49.679
And so she uses her physicality in wonderful ways that I've kind of probably always just skipped past.
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:58.880
But yeah, she does the little shuffle, she's doing a shimmy, you know, she's given us the full babs with a shimmy, and yeah, she's selling it a lot more than him, I would say.
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.000
He seems quite bored.
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:04.239
She's a funny woman.
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:04.719
Yeah.
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:14.000
At a time where funny women weren't really encouraged I guess.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:18.880
Yeah, no, it I mean it's always been difficult to be a woman and tr and try and be funny.
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:25.599
But yeah, it's it's uh almost always the man will be the centre of things.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:27.440
She's the funny one in this act.
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:28.880
Yeah, he's the straight man.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:29.360
Yeah.
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:33.920
And she's getting all the laughs on his behalf.
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:38.400
Yeah, so he he does like he makes her pick a glove up.
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:38.880
Yes.
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:40.639
And there's and she bends over.
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:41.199
Yeah.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:42.800
There's not a lot of reaction to that.
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.119
I would say that that is a cheeky moment.
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.519
It's a is yes, in more ways than one.
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:48.320
We don't it.
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:51.199
We don't talk a lot about cheeky.
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:51.440
No.
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:54.880
But I think as it's a Barbara Windsor episode, we probably should.
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:55.360
Yes.
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:57.840
It's like it's like a sort of cousin of camp.
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.280
Like they're not always the same thing, but there's some crossover.
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:11.519
I so as I was watching this, I thought there's something quite camp about having some sort of music every time you do a gesture.
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:12.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:26.800
So when she presents him, you get a drum hit, and when she bends down, you get a swanny whistle, and it's like every single movement that she does is accompanied by some sort of noise, I guess.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:42.800
Yes, which is meant to be like a sort of uh a trope of this act, which you know, with the the sort of ta'da moments would be highlighted, but they use it here in a camper way to do the jokes as well.
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:52.880
But they they often in um some of the carry-on films have sound effects that are that you wouldn't associate with uh a film generally.
00:41:53.280 --> 00:42:01.360
No, and I mean on my carry-on rewatch, one of the things I'm appreciating is the sound design of them.
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:02.239
It's interesting.
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:14.880
Because if you took away all the sound that wasn't dialogue, yeah, there's something almost like silent, there would be sort of like silent movies about them because it would feel very empty.
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:28.000
It's interesting with the changes that have happened in our lifetime to sitcoms where like canned laughter has gone out of fashion, and there is a fashion now for um not having anything added like that.
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:43.519
And it's I I find it a shame because those things kind of signal you that you're watching a performance, and there's a a big trend now to have it so that you don't feel like you're watching a performance, everything's reality.
00:42:43.840 --> 00:43:01.920
But actually watching a performance and being part of a communal group, even if they aren't really there, you're hearing their laughs recorded, is a different feeling, and I think you should be able to have both, which is why this is fascinating with this Edwardin audience, because I'm sure I've seen a clip of this where they all sing along as well.
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:04.800
That's one of the tropes of the show.
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:24.800
These are like communal events, and her performance there for an audience, even though we're watching it recorded, is a different kind of performance, like uh you know, heightened kind of to a different layer than we would, you know, if it was just recorded in a studio.
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.079
They're as much a part of the performance as she is, I would say.
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.760
Yeah, and her her energy matches that.
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.320
Yes.
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:37.280
Um, which is interesting when you're talking about her having been having done a lot of live theatre.
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:45.519
I can imagine there are actors who wouldn't or or certainly like you know, famous people who wouldn't take to this as well as she does.
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:46.000
Yes.
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:49.039
But she is enjoying every minute, I would say.
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:55.199
But speaking of enjoying every minute, in 1999 she released an album.
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:57.360
Did she get it?
00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:59.280
Called You've Got a Friend.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.880
Now I notice you're not going for your clips.
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:04.719
You're going for your bag.
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:05.760
Oh my god.
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:07.440
Yes, I've got the CD.
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:08.000
Yes.
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:09.599
I didn't buy it at the time.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:12.159
This has been a subsequent eBay purchase.
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:13.920
I am actually surprised to hear that.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.519
Um but yeah, you've got a friend.
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:20.400
The track list includes Well the title track, You've Got a Friend, is a duet with Steve McFadden.
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:22.400
Who it isn't?
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:23.280
Who plays?
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:24.320
You have to be joking.
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.239
Phil Mitchell, the East Enders.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:27.199
Are you joking then?
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:28.000
I'm not joking.
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:29.920
You can have a look at it in a minute if you like.
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:39.199
Other songs on there include You Made Me Love You, I Say a Little Prayer, As Long As He Needs Me.
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:39.840
Great.
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:50.000
And what used to happen in 1999 was if you released a single and it got on the charts, you would go and perform it on Top of the Pops.
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:51.440
That did used to happen.
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.159
I forgot that that is now a historical uh fact.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:54.880
Yes.
00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:03.840
And so we are about to watch a duet of the song The More I See You, which if you're not familiar with, you will be in a moment.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:09.119
Featuring Mike Reed and Barbara Winthers.
00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:12.800
Get out of my pub with pleasure!
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:15.119
First of all, I must apologise, dear listener.
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.119
It's not Top of the Pops that they were on.
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:20.239
They were on performing this on the National Lottery programme.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:25.679
Yes, that gets us into a whole nother thing about how camp the National Lottery used to be.
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:36.960
Yes, I I didn't question it when you said that they'd been on Top of the Pops because 99's right in the right in that spot where it may have been when Top of the Pops started to die.
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:41.119
Um Top of the Pops, it What are you saying?
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:55.840
Well Top of the Pops at one point in history may have been a very cool programme to be on, and then by the end nobody cared what was on it, and this being right in the middle of that journey made sense to me.
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:56.239
Okay.
00:45:56.719 --> 00:45:58.639
You know, you know what I'm saying?
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:03.119
I think we should also clear up Mike Reed, because there have been several famous Mike Reed's.
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:09.039
Yes, this is of course Mike Reed, who played Frank Butcher in EastEnders.
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:09.599
Yes.
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:15.920
And at the time that this duet was recorded, Barbara Windsor and Mike Reed's characters were married.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:19.760
So Frank and Peggy were uh um an item.
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:21.039
An item at the time.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.599
Yes.
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:22.079
Yes.
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:28.239
Because there was also the thing with there was a there's a lot of back and forth between him and Pat Butcher.
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.880
So first of all, let's talk about what Barbara looks like.
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:34.400
She looks wonderful.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:35.599
She looks wonderful.
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:39.679
She's she's giving the hair this is what I mean by sort of latter stage, Barbara.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:40.960
The hair is very high.
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:42.400
It's very high, yes.
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:46.000
Uh it's a very uh white blonde.
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:50.800
And she has a dinky little glitzy jacket on.
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:52.480
Yes, beaded lilac.
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:57.039
And then, you know, a a dress that matches.
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:01.679
It she I was thinking about her physical form, right?
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:02.079
Okay.
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:17.599
Because she is very small, she's very she's like not even five foot, and she has these large boobs, and her physicality is very, you know, uh uh unique and she uses it in a funny way.
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:18.159
Yes.
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.920
She almost always is sacheting, shimmying.
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:26.719
She She knows how to make the most of her body in every movement.
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:44.480
She's you yes, she's using the way that she looks to d to sell whatever she's doing, and it's yeah, she really has a sort of uh a style about her which i is fun and funny and sexy and yeah, a lot of things going on.
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:47.360
So she's shimmying around this stage.
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:53.199
Yeah, I it I'm I'm sort of sick of the word, but the performance is to excess.
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.239
To excess.
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.199
To excess.
00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:01.039
She's you don't have to walk like that to get from one side of the stage to the other.
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:04.880
But she is gonna milk it for all it's worth.
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:06.239
In the best possible way.
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:10.719
That's not a this is why we're fascinated by her.
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:15.519
Because it it's it's like a type of uh a charisma.
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:18.239
You know, there's a sensuality about it or something.
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:30.079
She's a much older woman by this stage, but she's still selling a sex in a very cutesy, charming way that she says she doesn't have to do that, but she's enjoying She's having fun.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:30.960
Having fun.
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:31.440
Yeah.
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:40.800
She's coating up to Mike Reed, who it's very much a I think uh shows the difference um in uh what's expected of men and women.
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:41.280
Right.
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:43.679
She is selling us in every movement.
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:52.559
It looks like she's an expert on how to sell sensuality and cheekiness and fun, and he just basically stands there and can't sing.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.079
Well, my next question was what do you think of the song?
00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:58.719
Um so I did recognise the song when it started.
00:48:58.960 --> 00:48:59.039
Okay.
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:09.039
There was a little flash uh of some text halfway through that said it had also been sung by other legends such as Ella Fitzgerald.
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:11.679
How do you think this version compares?
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:20.079
Yeah, um I would say the um the the the vocals probably aren't as strong.
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:20.559
Okay.
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:22.000
On this.
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:29.280
Um you're looking at me, you know, I'm gonna say that's because of my greed, and then I think you'll let me out of this room alive.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:29.840
Okay.
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:35.599
Well, my my follow-up question is does it make you want to listen to the rest of the album?
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:44.159
Oh Would you have watched this on the National Lottery and thought I need to go and buy this album?
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:49.519
Um well the to the first part of the question, would you have watched this on the National Lottery?
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:53.280
I imagine my parents wouldn't have let me switch over.
00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:53.679
Okay.
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.840
Um but I couldn't imagine leaving the room.
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:07.760
It's I did it it does, when I look at it, it does feel a little bit like um culture's beginning to die at this stage.
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:14.320
You know, it's on the National Lottery, which I don't it was never cool.
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:15.440
It was never cool.
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:17.760
Whatever they did with it, they did various shows.
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:24.239
Yeah, they tried a lot of things the lottery, they showed they tried everything, and all of it was crap.
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:26.320
Well, I think a lot of it was Dale Winton.
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:27.519
A lot of it was Dale Winton.
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.199
I'm not saying that he made it crap.
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:30.559
No I'm just he was involved in.
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:31.440
He did his best.
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:32.480
I'm sure he did his best.
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.239
And before that, I there was a oh, I don't want to say disease.
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:37.119
Um what?
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:41.039
There was a there was a whiff of Anthea Turner to the whole thing.
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:43.119
Oh, yes, Anthea Turner.
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:43.519
Yes.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.360
I was gonna say make she rest in peace.
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:46.400
I'm sure she's not.
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:47.599
She's still with it.
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:49.440
She's she's still with it.
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:51.360
But her career isn't.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:56.880
Um yes, just I don't know, just something about the lighting gave me very noughties.
00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:07.920
You know, we're moving into the naughties from that l, I don't know, sort of grim blue lighting with random hotspots of geometric f steel furniture.
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:09.920
And do you think it was camp?
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:11.119
I think it was camp.
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:13.039
I think Babs was bringing the camp though.
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:13.360
Okay.
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:14.960
I think everybody else was just there.
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:16.960
Babs raised the camp levels.
00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:31.360
Absolutely, because she's really selling us a type of glamour a glamorous performance, some elegance, something showier than whatever the rest of this is.
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:32.000
Okay.
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:34.400
We're gonna stick with Mike Reed.
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:35.039
Are we?
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:35.360
Okay.
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:36.079
Yes.
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:40.400
Now, I had several options for an EastEnders clip.
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:46.079
And there was one that just kept rising to the surface when it came to Barbara.
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:52.079
And I think the reason that it did is that you don't often in soap get a monologue.
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.519
They're quite pacey, they're quite back and forth.
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:57.280
You do a scene, you're on to the next.
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:07.679
In the year 2000, they gave Peggy a bit of a monologue that has gone down as I think an iconic part of EastEnders history.
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.199
Get out of my pub with pleasure! Oh, it's powerful stuff.
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.559
Do you remember watching that when it first aired?
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:17.280
Yes, I did.
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:18.480
Yeah, so do I.
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:19.440
Yeah.
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:24.320
As I said, this is a like a high point for EastEnders.
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:24.960
Completely.
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:39.360
People were watching this, and as they were so the the scene we've just watched is Peggy in the pub confronting her husband, Frank, and um Pat about what they've done.
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:53.360
And as as it's happening, we're cutting round to all of the other people in the pub who are watching this unfold, and I recognised all of them in a way that is like it's like going to a family reunion.
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:53.840
Right.
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.280
And like people that you know so well, and you think, oh yeah, he was here last time, he's always doing that.
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:07.199
Like it they feel so familiar to me years later when I haven't thought about any of this for a long time.
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:23.679
And so if you can imagine at your family reunion, the thing that takes place is somebody gets up and reads a letter confronting two people about an affair, you would never forget it, but and it is that dramatic.
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:32.079
Yeah, I one of the comments on YouTube on this video is could you imagine if you just popped in the pub for a quiet drink and this was going down.
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:32.800
Yeah.
00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:33.199
Yeah.
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:35.840
But that is exactly the point.
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:37.360
I can imagine that.
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:37.760
Yeah.
00:53:38.000 --> 00:54:03.679
You know, it soaps they take place in a kind of reality, but it's heightened, and I think they're at their best when you kind of you can imagine that taking place, and you can imagine the drama if the local where you always hang out, something like that was going on, and you can just about get away with how dramatic this is.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:07.199
I mean, to start off, her performance is incredible.
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:13.679
She goes through such a range of emotions in one delivery.
00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:47.920
It feels like it feels exactly right to me for like if your you know, your auntie or your gran or whatever was getting wanted to confront someone, she starts off, she's sort of like almost apologetic for having interrupted everybody, like, excuse me, everybody, I've got to do this, and she uses the word wickedness about what they've done, and she injects it with such venom, yeah, there's something very much of an older woman who has to hold their tongue to keep the family peace all the time.
00:54:48.159 --> 00:54:54.880
And finally, when I let you have it, I let you have it in a way that you will never forget.
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:55.599
Yeah.
00:54:55.920 --> 00:55:02.800
She also uses to get a little technical about the acting, she does much the same with the word Pat.
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:04.000
Yes.
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.440
I've never stopped myself loving Pat.
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:12.079
She injects venom into it.
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:12.559
Yeah.
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:25.199
And just before she starts the letter as well, so she she says, you know, it's like an award, she's you know, just before she starts the letter, there's a tremor in her voice, like she's nervous about what she's got to do.
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:25.519
Yeah.
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:30.239
And the way she delivers it, obviously, her you know, her as an actor, she's not nervous.
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:46.639
It's it's giving that character thing of like this is such a big moment in Peggy's life that she can hardly believe she's gonna do it, but with every fibre of her being, she's gonna throw as much at them to let them have it as possible.
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:53.679
And yes, it's it it is very camp because we get to such a level.
00:55:54.239 --> 00:56:01.039
I think it's and I think it goes back to what we've sort of said earlier, it's almost kind of theatrical acting.
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:01.599
Yes.
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:07.760
And that's not to say that the bubble of realism is completely burst.
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:08.239
No.
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:15.840
It's not like she's overacting everything to the point of it not working on screen, no.
00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:18.719
But there is certainly a size to it.
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:19.440
Yes.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:31.199
That in your everyday EastEnders, where they're just, you know, buying some bananas from the market, you're not necessarily getting it's not being played for the back row.
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:44.320
The fact is it works for what it's trying to do, because if you had somebody deliver that in a more in a more realistic way, in a very naturalistic way, it would feel flat.
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:50.000
But in a world of heightened reality, you have to take it to an operatic level.
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:54.639
And I suppose actually, now that I think about it, Peggy is performing to an audience.
00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:55.440
Absolutely.
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:55.760
Yeah.
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:56.320
She is.
00:56:56.559 --> 00:57:07.280
So she reads this letter that is what Frank has written to Peggy to explain that he's never stopped loving Pat.
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:07.599
Yeah.
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:12.480
And the letter ends with, by the time you read this, you know, we'll be gone or whatever.
00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:19.840
Um but Peggy has discovered it and so reads it aloud for everyone's benefit.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:20.400
Yeah.
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:22.320
To shame them.
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:22.800
Yeah.
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:26.480
And you feel her character's pain.
00:57:26.800 --> 00:57:27.199
Yes.
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:31.519
Even though what she's do you know, selling is anger.
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:42.639
You feel all the kind of nuance of the pain, and she makes it public because she's so hurt that she's like, Well, here you go, this is what these two people are really like.
00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:48.480
And it it doesn't break until she says goodnight to everyone at the end.
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:48.880
Yeah.
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:55.119
And she's finally sort of stepping back from this public humiliation into actually having to live with it.
00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:55.599
Yeah.
00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:57.920
Hope you all enjoyed the fireworks.
00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:59.119
Good night.
00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:01.599
That's the part of which it really feels cap.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:02.239
Yeah.
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:09.360
Because I think she's acting that moment of right, I've got through it and now I've got to go back to my real life and how sad I am.
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.639
Um and so when it drops, that's when it feels like.
00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:17.199
Oh my god, this was so It it so it was also set on firework night.
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:18.000
Right, yes.
00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:21.360
Which is which sort of again adds a little camp.
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:23.119
It is camp, isn't it?
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:25.519
Notion to hope you enjoyed the fireworks.
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:34.400
If you plan your revenge based on um, you know, what day you're gonna deliver it, that's definitely camp.
00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:40.480
Yes, I do think in this instance, if I remember correctly, she only found out Okay, you know.
00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:41.679
And she did it immediately.
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:42.639
Yeah, pretty much.
00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:44.159
I would sit on it.
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:48.000
I think I'd wait for something I can do a pun about.
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:52.320
Of course you would.
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:53.039
Can you imagine?
00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:54.079
I'll save it to St.
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:58.000
Patrick's and like St Patrick who drove the snakes.
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:01.119
I now shall drive the snakes out of my pub.
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.519
Do you now understand my wig?
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:09.360
Uh yes.
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:11.280
It's not a perfect match.
00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:13.199
No, no, no, I understand the wig.
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:14.559
I understand, yes, yes.
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:17.519
I think I'd forgotten an era of Peggy.
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:18.480
Early to mid.
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:19.599
Early to mid, yeah.
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:20.559
I've forgotten it.
00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:20.880
Yeah.
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:25.440
I don't think it's the best Barbara Windsor era for Okay.
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:26.800
Wig wig only.
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:27.119
Yeah.
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:27.840
Wig only.
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:30.079
I think the acting, great, great work.
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:31.920
Wig, not so much.
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:36.480
I prefer the paler, higher hair.
00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:40.719
But the th so the thing is, is that was just Peggy.
00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:41.440
Yes.
00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:47.840
Because the picture you see in front of you on the CD and on the booth absolutely my preferred Barbara Windsor hair.
00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:49.360
Is the same time period.
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:51.920
Yes, and it's clear these are all wigs.
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:52.400
Yes.
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:54.800
It's clear we're wigging all the way over the way.
00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:59.199
Yes, I mean There she has the Venn diagram with Cher.
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:03.039
To be honest, I do think I'm having this memory now in the moment.
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:15.360
I do think when she came back and she didn't have so much of the the hair that you're talking about, I do feel like that was a point in which I went, no, that's not Peggy, that's Barbara Windsor hair.
01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:16.239
Right, okay.
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:19.119
You know that it didn't feel right, it felt too showbiz.
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:25.199
There's a there's a realism, not to yours, but to her hair there.
01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:26.320
Anyway.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:30.159
We're moving on now to watch some Barbara Windsor Just Being Barbara.
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:30.639
Okay.
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:35.039
We are watching a clip from when she hosted the Sunday Night Project.
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:36.639
I don't know what that is.
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:43.519
It was on channel four, it was hosted by Alan Carr and Justin Lee Collins, who is a great man.
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:44.079
Right.
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:45.760
Um, but we didn't know at this point.
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:46.239
Okay.
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:52.159
And it was, I guess it was sort of almost trying to be a bit Saturday Night Live.
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:52.559
Okay.
01:00:52.719 --> 01:01:00.400
They'd have a guest host who would come on and they'd sort of do sketches with them, they'd have sections where the audience could ask them questions.
01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:10.000
What we're going to watch is something called Who Knows the Most about the Guest Host, where they bring on two people that they know.
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:16.079
In this instance, it's Patsy Palmer and Anna Karen.
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:20.639
Oh and they form two teams and they have to try and answer questions.
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:29.599
I would say this has bonus camp in the form of Alan Carr and Anna Karen being on a team together.
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:33.280
But I wanted a bit of Babs as Babs.
01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:33.679
Yes.
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:35.920
So here we go, Sunday night project.
01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:39.039
Get out of my pub with pleasure!
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:42.159
Right, so that is Barbara hosting the Sunday night project.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:44.800
I can see now why I don't remember this.
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:48.719
There's a number of horrifying things have taken place.
01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:53.760
There are some other things in the episode which I didn't include, which I would argue are worse.
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:55.119
Good grief.
01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:58.320
Um there was a very special reason I wanted to bring this clip.
01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:00.320
Can I tell you why?
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:01.440
I I wish you would.
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:03.280
I was in that live studio audience.
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:04.079
What?
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:10.400
I didn't know about this.
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:12.719
Yes, I was in the live studio audience.
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:23.519
A friend of mine had applied for audience tickets, and I think I believe when you applied for them, like you didn't know any information about who was hosting it or anything.
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:24.320
Right.
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:30.639
And then once you were sent the tickets, if you were successful, they told you who it was.
01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:36.239
And as soon as they found out who it was, they phoned me and told me that I was coming.
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:37.039
Okay, yeah.
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.679
And so yeah, I went to the live recording with Barbara Windsor as host.
01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:42.960
That's wow.
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:46.880
Yeah, and I remember I remember that bit quite vividly.
01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:56.480
I w I watched the whole thing back in prep, and there were things I did not remember at all about the format or the show or things that were said or things that happened.
01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:57.440
Walked it out.
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:07.039
There's a bit after this where Alan Carr and Anna Karen come on dressed as Angetta and Anna Fried from ABBA and Drink Waterloo.
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.719
In terms of camp, we're really up there.
01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:11.360
Yes.
01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:11.760
Yeah.
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:17.280
But I think this bit in particular is uh gives us some quite camp barber moments.
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:19.679
Yes, so she yeah, she's hosting.
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:20.639
She's hosting.
01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:22.800
And it's a little game show bit.
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:27.199
So Anna Karen, I I don't know if people remember Anna Karen.
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.920
I think of her as Olive from On the Buses.
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:30.480
Yes.
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:34.159
But she did she was in EastEnders and As Peggy's sister.
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:35.199
As Peggy's sister.
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:38.000
She was also in Carry On Camping.
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:39.519
Of course she was.
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:40.000
Yeah.
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:40.639
Right.
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:42.639
So they've known each other for a long time.
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:43.119
Yeah.
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:51.440
Patsy Palmer, of course, um from EastEnders, Bianca, would know Peggy as well uh would know Barbara Windsor as well.
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.639
But th they don't get a lot of chance to speak.
01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:55.039
No.
01:03:55.519 --> 01:04:00.639
Because the two like regulars, Alan Carr and Justini Collins, are doing most of the talking.
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:04.079
Yeah, I seem to remember when they filmed it, Patsy said more.
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:04.639
Yeah.
01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:06.480
And it just didn't make the edit.
01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:08.719
There's a very uncomfortable part.
01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:11.280
They're joking about the Mile High Club.
01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:12.000
Yes.
01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:14.639
And he's trying to make it sexual.
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:15.199
Anyway.
01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:15.679
Yes.
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:23.440
They're joking about the Mile High Club and they s and s sort of throw to Barbara, has she ever joined the Mile High Club?
01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:24.000
Yes.
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:26.320
To which she says, Oh, of course.
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:31.039
And then she says, You're very naughty, you wheedled that out of me.
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:32.320
You wheedled that out of me.
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.119
There's a couple of great lines that she kind of throws away.
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:40.320
She she's asked where where she was going when she joined the Mile High Club.
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:41.840
She says, Jersey.
01:04:41.920 --> 01:04:42.320
Yeah.
01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:43.760
Which is just funny.
01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:44.079
Yeah.
01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:47.679
If you had to think of a funny location, Jersey is funny.
01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:51.679
It's neither far away nor very sexy sounding.
01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:57.920
And she also when they reveal that it's Jersey, they say, Well, that's only about half hour, couldn't you have waited?
01:04:58.159 --> 01:04:59.840
She says, In those days I couldn't.
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:00.239
Yeah.
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:04.639
Which is very fun and very sweet, but a lot of it is lost in the chaos.
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:10.719
There's something camp, I think, about a 72-year-old woman talking about her active sex life.
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:11.679
Yeah.
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:25.920
And I think I think she really does it in a way that uh she feels in charge of whatever goes on, she feels in charge of of speaking about that in a way that she wants to.
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:26.320
Yes.
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:29.119
And that like she's enjoyed herself in life, you know?
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:29.519
Yeah.
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:35.360
Yes, and there's also the reveal of uh so one of the questions is what was unusual about your honeymoon?
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:35.679
Yeah.
01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:43.360
Obviously some jokes there, but the reveal of the answer is that she took Kenneth Williams and his mum and his sister.
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:44.079
Mm-hmm.
01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:45.840
Which is lovely.
01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:47.280
Yes, it was a bit mad.
01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:49.119
It's mad, but I I love it.
01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:49.599
Yeah.
01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:51.679
Took Kenny Williams on honeymoon.
01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:54.159
Yeah, which Anna Karen knew, so they're proper friends.
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:54.559
You can tell.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:55.599
Yeah, you can tell that.
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:56.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:57.280 --> 01:05:58.960
I don't know if I've got much else to say.
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:01.599
I just wanted to See a bit of Babs in her.
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:02.159
Yeah.
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:04.239
I also like the Swannee whistle.
01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:04.960
Yes.
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:07.280
It is the campused sound effect.
01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:11.360
There's a reason that it begins and ends every one of our episodes.
01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:12.559
Right, exactly.
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:13.920
Did you not know that?
01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:16.880
I of course I'm a regular listener.
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.840
Yes, we begin with a swanny up before the hello.
01:06:22.239 --> 01:06:22.400
Right.
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:23.679
Then we do the theme tune.
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:23.920
Yeah.
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:25.119
Then we do the episode.
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:25.360
Yep.
01:06:25.519 --> 01:06:28.079
And then we get a swanny down before we go to the outro.
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:28.880
Brilliant.
01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:30.960
I'm so glad to hear it.
01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:33.119
Great, great.
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:33.760
Great.
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:36.000
I must have just I must have just forgotten that that was the first one.
01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:36.639
Yeah, sure.
01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:37.119
Okay.
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:42.480
I've got one more clip.
01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:43.679
Have you?
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.559
And I've saved the best till last.
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:46.880
Okay.
01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:47.360
I think.
01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:51.039
The best slash the most iconic.
01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:56.480
And believe it or not, I had to create this clip package myself.
01:06:56.719 --> 01:06:57.119
Did you?
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:00.159
I had to download the entirety of Carry On Camping.
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:07.199
Because there's no like Barbara's best bits in Carry On out there, which I think is insane.
01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:08.000
Yeah.
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:12.559
But here is a selection of clips from Barbara Windsor in Carry On Camping.
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:13.199
Excellent.
01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:16.480
Get out of my pub with pleasure.
01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:19.599
So there we have Barbara at her carry-on best.
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:27.920
It's amazing how iconic that has become, the uh the yellow bikini top flinging away.
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:29.119
Yeah, completely.
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:33.039
It's um It's probably the thing people think of when they think of carry-on.
01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:34.400
And Barbara Windsor.
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:35.840
And Barbara Windsor, for sure.
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:36.079
Yeah.
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:43.199
What always surprises me about carry-on camping, if I watch it now, is how much it has like seeped into my soul.
01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:52.800
Because so I work in theatre and I've worked in touring theatre, which involves getting things in and out of vans and stuff.
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:58.559
And to this day, if anyone says at the end of the night, are we all loaded?
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.719
My response is not half.
01:08:03.280 --> 01:08:07.760
And the majority of the time nobody knows what I'm talking about.
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:11.519
But it's so like You've internalised it.
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:12.880
Are we all loaded?
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:14.159
Not half.
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:17.039
Um Yeah.
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:18.319
Amazing.
01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:24.479
And also To a lesser extent, I don't say this in every day.
01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:25.039
No.
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:27.039
What is it, Barbara dear?
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:30.479
It's just the way he says it, like it it's in there.
01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:34.800
I think it's lucky you don't have anyone called Barbara who My Nan was called Barbara.
01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:37.680
But you um I didn't ever say it to my nan.
01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:44.640
Though weirdly it was sort of my nan that uh got me into the carry-on films, but it's a story for another day.
01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:48.479
I've see, I don't think carry-on camping is one of my favourites.
01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:50.239
I don't think it's one of my most re-watched.
01:08:51.199 --> 01:09:02.880
But this this moment where her her um bikini top flies off, I I mean I have always questioned the uh validity of these exercises they're being asked to do.
01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:03.680
Yes.
01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:11.840
I would suggest to you that fling and in, fling and in has no no value whatsoever.
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:14.159
It's not been on my recent workout list.
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:16.079
No, no, no, no.
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:22.880
But it is it is one of those that I think the imagery of it became iconic to carry on.
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:23.279
Yes.
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.199
And she is very funny in it.
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:25.600
Yeah.
01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:42.479
There's also a moment earlier that went in the thing that we were watching where she does a laugh that I recog I recognised it as sort of like her me and you are talking about sex and I'm enjoying it laugh.
01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:42.880
Yes.
01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:54.319
So that the line is about something that implies sex, and she sort of leans forward and does this snigger like it kind of like has an extra an extra bit to it.
01:09:54.720 --> 01:09:57.680
Yeah, which was sort of known in the carry-ons for that giggle.
01:09:57.840 --> 01:09:58.479
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:08.800
I clearly can't do it because but it's it's sort of the way that she does it lets you in on the idea that this character enjoys sex as much as the bloke's.
01:10:09.039 --> 01:10:12.159
She's part she's part of the joke, she's not the butt of the joke.
01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:12.560
Yeah.
01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:20.319
Other camp things going on in this clip is Hattie Jake's hair slash towel on her head slash hair.
01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:25.039
That makes it sound so much worse than it is.
01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:27.279
It's a continuity error.
01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:30.720
Yes, it's uh a a hair towel turban thing.
01:10:31.039 --> 01:10:34.239
Yes, just it appears and disappears between cups.
01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:35.039
Yeah.
01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:41.359
I think there's a campness to this moment also when you know the story behind filming it.
01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:43.680
They were filming this in mid-November.
01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:44.720
Right.
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:52.399
And the way that the shot was achieved was there was a man with a fishing wire that had to pull the bra.
01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:57.119
And on the first take, he pulled, the bra didn't come off, she went flat on her face.
01:10:57.279 --> 01:10:57.920
Oh my goodness.
01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:01.279
And the director said, Get her up, hose her down, we'll go again.
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:04.960
Which I just think's brilliant.
01:11:05.279 --> 01:11:07.199
Not a lot of glamour in acting.
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:11.039
No, and we also see her full boob.
01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:12.000
Yes.
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:13.680
Now this is a thing, right?
01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:18.000
When they made these movies, I think I said this about Barbarella as well.
01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:23.520
It was gonna be on the big screen, nobody had the ability to pause, rewind, check.
01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:25.119
So it's it's there and gone.
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:27.920
It's like that side boob that's there and gone.
01:11:28.159 --> 01:11:32.000
So for more context, this was released the same year as Barbarella.
01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:32.479
Was it?
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:32.720
Yes.
01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:33.600
Oh interesting.
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:42.800
And they filmed the shot that's in the film, and Hattie pulling the hand away w was an accidental thing.
01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:44.159
Oh, it's an extra.
01:11:44.319 --> 01:11:47.279
And they filmed it again because they didn't think they'd get it past the censor.
01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:47.840
Yeah, I guess.
01:11:48.159 --> 01:11:55.920
And they sent both versions to the censor, and I believe the censor's response was I don't think one of Barbara Windsor's breasts is going to corrupt the nation.
01:11:56.319 --> 01:11:58.239
Well, little did they know.
01:11:58.479 --> 01:11:59.039
Well.
01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:08.239
But there's I think you see it less in this film because it comes later in the carry-on run.
01:12:09.199 --> 01:12:19.600
But you see this sort of fizzy energeticness to her in contrast to Kenneth Williams' quite severe old British stiffer upper lipper.
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:24.960
You could just say stiff upper lip.
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:26.000
That's what I meant.
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:27.760
But you add it a lot.
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:29.760
You're adding a lot to that.
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:31.279
But you know what I mean.
01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:32.479
I know I know what you mean.
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:34.960
Of course I do.
01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:45.520
And so yeah, you get you get this contrast, and that kind of energy brings with it a campness.
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:49.920
It's kind of, dare I say, anti-establishment.
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:56.159
Kenneth Williams is the establishment.
01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:56.640
Yes.
01:12:57.279 --> 01:13:02.159
Barbara Windsor is sort of young and fruity and fruity.
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:04.159
I think she yes.
01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:05.840
A couple of watermelons going on.
01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:08.560
I mean, you could call both of them fruity.
01:13:09.119 --> 01:13:12.960
But um she Yes, I understand what you're saying.
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:18.319
She's poking fun at him because he's playing this kind of stiffer upper lipper.
01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:19.680
Stiffer upper lipper.
01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:26.880
He's telling her off about how short her shorts are.
01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:27.439
Yes.
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:30.319
Which is a real thing that people were worried about.
01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:30.800
Yes.
01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:32.560
Are we calling them shorts?
01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:34.960
Because I don't think there's enough material there.
01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:39.039
No, a short generally goes past the bum.
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:39.279
Yes.
01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:42.560
At least some they're beyond even Daisy Jukes.
01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:45.199
It's just she's wearing a bodysuit that just ends on the bum.
01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:46.560
It's more of a leotard, isn't it?
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:47.600
It is really, yeah.
01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:49.600
That's how short the shorts were getting.
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:51.520
Who wears short shorts?
01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:53.359
Babs wears short shorts.
01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:59.520
So we've talked about Barbara, we've looked at some clips.
01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:02.720
What do you think Barbara's legacy is?
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:15.680
I think certainly she as this as this kind of figure from the carry-on films, she's she's associated with that version of camp.
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.239
We talked about like a British camp.
01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:20.159
There's a kind of nudge and a wink.
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:31.439
Nudge and a wink, a naughty seaside postcard type of humour to her that she is very synonymous with and is just a big part of that.
01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:42.800
But yeah, in her acting in East Enders and stuff, she kind of came with you know, a new generation, our generation were growing up watching that, and there's some very strong acting.
01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:50.079
I do think it gets forgotten in kind of this uh this persona that we think of.
01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:55.840
But she's she's definitely she's central to what British camp is.
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:58.960
Yes, I would completely agree.
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:05.039
What if that's what you think her legacy is, is there anything that you think her legacy should be?
01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:26.800
I'm really thinking about this kind of early start that she had with like theatre workshop and yeah, I'm really wondering if because she's performing in carry-on and because she's associated with being the sexy girl, whether we're not seeing how good of an actress she is.
01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:40.000
So I wonder with her sometimes if our view of her as camp sometimes diminishes the work that she's done slash is doing.
01:15:40.159 --> 01:16:00.079
Because I mean, even in that clip from East Enders that we watched we watch it and go, that was a camp moment, all that was camp, but that sort of almost takes away from some of the acting skill that she's putting into it and the layers and the nuance and stuff because we go, or remember Peggy Mitchell, she was camp.
01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:02.399
Oh about oh Bar, Bar was camp.
01:16:02.560 --> 01:16:05.439
Like Remember slapping people in the pub and throwing them out?
01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:05.840
Yeah.
01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:14.720
Yeah, no, I absolutely because I was watching it today, having heard you talk about her like theatre sort of start, thinking this is really good.
01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:36.960
And actually, I think it kind of when you compare it to some performances now, because you will get people who are put into soaps or other things where they're like a name and they don't have that kind of background and training to give you a performance like that, you you take it for granted that she could do that.
01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:37.359
Yeah.
01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:41.439
And I think I think that is something that I've definitely not thought about.
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:57.840
And it is a kind of misogyny as well that we have, like, because she's sexy, because they she's thrown into these films where she's there to be attractive and to be the one with the boobs, that we don't notice how much she's doing and how how good she is.
01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:00.319
Yes, because she was funny in those films as well.
01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:00.800
Yeah.
01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:03.119
Like she was allowed to be funny.
01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:06.560
And actually I I like I obviously I've been doing this rewatch.
01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:07.760
I could talk about the carry-ons.
01:17:08.319 --> 01:17:09.600
We could talk all day about that.
01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:18.960
But I think sometimes they are I think they gave m women more opportunity to be funny than we necessarily remember them for.
01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:20.079
I agree.
01:17:20.319 --> 01:17:24.640
Particularly like Joan Sims, Hattie Jakes, Barbara.
01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:33.119
There were absolutely some girls that were there that they employed to be eye candy and they didn't really give them any sort of opportunity beyond that.
01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:33.680
Yep.
01:17:34.239 --> 01:17:39.359
But I do think that they were also allowing women to be funny.
01:17:39.760 --> 01:17:44.319
This is the problem when you kind of critique them and say that they were very sexist.
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:54.319
And yes, they're written with that kind of sexist humour baked in, and uh, some of them are really extreme, um, especially towards the end, with that.
01:17:54.640 --> 01:18:22.479
But that critique kind of stops you from seeing what good work the women in them were doing, and yeah, there's there's performances there that I don't I don't like the idea of overlooking them because then you have people like Esma Cannon who is an incredible performer, and you just um you you throw the baby out with the bathwater if you say, Oh, these are sexists and I don't want to watch them.
01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:30.479
It's it's fine if you don't want to watch them, but the there are women in them who are doing such great work and have such interesting roles.
01:18:30.880 --> 01:18:38.960
I think sometimes we get hung up on you know like what is you know, whether it's like progressive or not, it's like it's either in or out.
01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:41.680
We can't have any kind of nuance or grey area.
01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:42.560
It can't be both.
01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:43.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:44.399
Yeah.
01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:46.079
And I think Babs is both.
01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:49.039
I think she's camp, but I also think she's incredibly talented.
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:50.640
Very talented.
01:18:51.279 --> 01:18:54.800
I've really enjoyed thinking about her in more depth.
01:18:55.359 --> 01:19:01.680
I think that's the the the thing is missing is depth, and I've really enjoyed actually sitting and thinking about that today.
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:02.560
Woo!
01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:06.640
Well, that was the Barbara Windsor episode of Camp Icons.
01:19:06.960 --> 01:19:15.039
If you've enjoyed today's episode, please give us a like, a subscribe, leave us a review, it really helps get the podcast in other people's ears.
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:18.399
You can also follow us on social media.
01:19:18.479 --> 01:19:22.079
We are on Instagram and TikTok at Camp Icons Podcast.
01:19:22.239 --> 01:19:25.439
And we also have a Facebook page which is now up to 5,000 followers.
01:19:25.600 --> 01:19:27.039
We wrote it off at the beginning.
01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:30.239
That is Camp Icons Podcast.
01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:32.319
Next week.
01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:33.600
I don't know who we're doing.
01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:34.640
You don't know who we're doing.
01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:35.920
It's a surprise to me.
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:40.159
I have been doing something I never thought I would for next week.
01:19:41.039 --> 01:19:43.199
I have been knee deep in Fanny.
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:57.199
Yes, next week we are looking at the queen of 1950s cookery programmes.
01:19:58.399 --> 01:20:02.079
The terrifying Fanny Craddock.
01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:04.319
You excited for a bit of Fanny next week?
01:20:04.479 --> 01:20:05.760
Of course I am.
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:07.760
You know me.
01:20:09.520 --> 01:20:09.920
Right.
01:20:10.079 --> 01:20:13.199
Well, thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you next week.
01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:13.840
Bye.
01:20:14.159 --> 01:20:14.720
Bye.