When Relationships Feel Unsafe: Recognising Domestic Abuse in Pregnancy and Early Parenthood

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This is By Your Side, the podcast that cuts through the noise of new parenthood.
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No cliches, no guilt trips, just the real story.
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Practical tools and insights that actually help. I'm Katie and I'm here to make
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sure you don't do this alone.
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Today we are joined by Lauren Seeger-Smith from For Baby's Sake and this is a tough conversation.
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I think we're going to delve in today but one that's incredibly incredibly necessary
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so Lauren thank you so much for joining me today and I wondered if we could start us off by,
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well how would you describe yourself to start
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with well it's funny we were talking about this in the office the other day
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and I said I did one of those I don't know if anyone's done the 16 personalities
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test or whatever it's called anyway well I came out as the queen as being most
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like the queen and and my colleagues were asking if I was a crisp what would I be and I said,
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probably a kettle chip and if I was a dog I'd be a golden retriever so I think it's sort of you know,
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I try and stay be quite grounded I'm quite into sort of fairness and justice and.
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Yeah but you know but I've also got a very soft kind
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of um doggy side so a
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bit of all of that I think yeah I love it
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and actually I can see how that works incredibly well for
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what you do so I think can we jump into for
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baby's sake and what it is set up to do why
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it exists yeah so for baby's sake
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was was set up because our founder Stelio
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Stefano was really moved and
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really troubled by the baby Peter Connolly story that
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some people may or may not remember baby Peter lost
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his life was murdered by his his parents
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and he just felt why do we keep seeing
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the deaths of these very young children over and over again what
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more can we do as a society you know
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to protect our babies and our children and that led
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to the development of for baby's sake and right in the early days it was about
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understanding what was happening in the lives of these families and what was
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coming up time and time again was the impact of intergenerational domestic abuse
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and the risk that that posed to babies and children and so that's how for baby's
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sake was born to give parents the support they need to protect babies.
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I love that because it is focused on the parents and what they need.
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Before we kind of delve into that a bit more, what do you mean by domestic abuse?
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What can that, I think I know and somebody listening might think they know,
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but it would be really good to understand that.
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What is it? How does it show up? What would you mean as domestic abuse?
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Yeah, I think it's a really good question because I think whenever we hear any
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phrase like that, we have a picture in our mind, don't we?
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And sometimes that's influenced by the media, it's influenced by film and TV.
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And sort of the traditional understanding of domestic abuse is kind of,
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you know, a big burly man who beats up his wife.
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Whereas our understanding now is much broader than that.
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So the Domestic Abuse Act 21 describes domestic abuse as a whole spectrum of
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behaviours from physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse,
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but understanding more and more about coercive control,
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which is where somebody tries to do everything to control all aspects of your
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life, leaving you feeling really unsafe and really isolated.
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And that tends to be the most pervasive form of domestic abuse so any situation
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where someone is making you feel unsafe and making you feel like you know you're
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isolated from others and and really need support and to seek help,
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or so that's really that coercive control
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so can that come across as being almost positive now I'm using the term and
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it's a new term I've learned last week from having teenage children of love
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bombing of like being very there's only you in my life you don't need anybody else but me.
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Those kind is that could that be
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given the context coercive control i'm just thinking do all
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of these things at the time feel negative no
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i think you know we work we've worked with hundreds of
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families over the last 10 years through for baby's sake and
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what we would say is that domestic abuse is
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very complicated and people are very complicated relationships
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are really complicated so when people say
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to somebody oh why didn't you just leave or why didn't
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that person just leave the relationship it's not as simple as that
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because people can be manipulative they can
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also be all shades in one day so you talked
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about love bombing quite often with coercive control it starts with
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you know huge amounts of affection love with gifts with you're the most beautiful
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person in the world i want to give you everything and we don't always see what
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that can then go on in some relationships to lead to with power and control
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and then controlling all aspects of somebody's life and causing that harm to someone.
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So relationships are complicated. And, you know, I think many of us,
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you know, hearing this will understand that and will have experienced that,
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whether in our own relationships or the relationships that we grew up with,
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we're difficult as human beings.
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And so it's really supporting people to understand if you don't feel safe,
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then that's something that needs to be looked at.
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So that's, you know, as you say about relationships.
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So the stats, I think at the moment are one in five people have experienced
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domestic abuse in their lifetime.
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And one of the things, I was watching the video that's on your website,
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which I'll drop as a link to this because I think it's so powerful and it's about two parents.
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And it starts with them talking about their childhoods
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so it's not that it jumps
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straight into there is abuse there
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and that's wrong it's about actually both of them have experienced something
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that hasn't necessarily supported them in their own early childhood and that
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might play into then their relationship either in maybe being the powerful or
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the powerless one and I just wondered,
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what do you see when you work with parents?
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Because it's very easy, I think, to put blame.
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And sometimes that can be from, I'm trying to steer away from certain terminology,
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but somebody who has experienced rather than giving abuse, put the blame almost
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on themselves of, well, it's my fault or equally, it's their fault. Yeah.
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So I suppose the question is, what have you seen in working with parents about
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their own experience and how that plays into maybe the relationship they're in at that time?
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Yeah, well, I think one thing I would say that for our parents,
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many of our parents have multiple, what are often called adverse childhood experiences.
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So a lot of our parents grew up with domestic abuse in their own homes,
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but also other forms of child abuse.
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They grow up with parental parent mental health
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they grow up with high levels of poverty within the home all
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these different factors that can impact on on relationships and
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impact on on family life and impact on on how we feel about ourselves and so
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for many of our parents they didn't grow up knowing what a healthy relationship
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looks like no con no concept of that many of our parents are very young many
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of our parents also care experienced and quite often if you've had those experiences,
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you're naturally drawn to other people that have those shared life experiences with you.
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And the challenge is if we haven't had support to be able to process some of
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those things and what's gone on for us, it can make those relationships in our
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own adulthood really quite challenging and quite difficult.
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Now, it's important to say that not everybody that goes through those things
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hurts other people. It's really important to say that.
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But we do know from research that sometimes when we've been through those things,
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we might be more likely to use those behaviours towards others and we might
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be more likely to experience those things within our own relationships.
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And again, some of that's around not knowing what healthy is and some of that
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is around, you know, really needing support to be able to get out of difficult
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situations when we're being manipulated and used by people.
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And I'll tell you something that really struck me,
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the occupation that are most likely to experience domestic abuse are nurses.
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And that's so heartbreaking. That's so interesting. Yeah, so heartbreaking.
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And I think sometimes it's those of us who feel the need to please people,
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people pleasers, the carers, the givers, the helpers.
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Sometimes we think we can save somebody, we can help somebody.
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We want to save somebody from something we might have gone through in our own childhood.
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We want to rescue somebody. and I think that's probably
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true for a lot of people in health professions and in caring professions and
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that can sometimes mean that we're not always in
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the best space to care for ourselves and to really believe what
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we deserve in order to feel safe yeah that's so so powerful isn't it so the
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the kind of almost I love the term emotional backpack so what you've experienced
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in your childhood and what you've seen and those relationships play into how
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you have a relationship with someone else.
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And I suppose becoming a parent is one of the hardest things,
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if not the hardest thing that anybody will ever have to do.
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And that will naturally put strain on a relationship.
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And that's even a relationship that felt good or was seemingly working beforehand.
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And again, it's, I think, was it
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30% of domestic abuse cases start during pregnancy because of that added.
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Pressure so I'm wondering
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you know how why in everything
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you're you're saying why why does that become almost
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like a tipping point or does that escalate things
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yeah and we did a piece of research which we can share in the notes around mental
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health during that perinatal period so during pregnancy and those early those
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early days with baby and what came out for both mum and dad was high levels
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of impact on emotional and mental health during that period of time.
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One in 10 dads said they turned to substance and alcohol use during that time.
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And we know that there are a whole kaleidoscope of things that can put on pressure during pregnancy.
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You know, just what it's like to have a baby, mine are 12 and 14 now,
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but I can remember back to that, you know.
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As mum, it can mean that you're very dependent on the other person.
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It can mean that you can become more isolated from
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others as time goes on you're probably if
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you're still in a relationship with someone both struggling with sleep deprivation it
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can increase anxieties over money and if you have to go down to one salary how
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are you going to cope how are you going to manage we know that maternity paternity
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pay is not great all of those things can put a lot of pressures and strains
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on I think what can also happen is it can exacerbate that opportunity to control somebody else.
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And I think it also brings up some sometimes gendered expectations,
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gendered pressures around how men are expected to behave, how women are expected to behave.
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And that can exacerbate abusive behaviours.
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And so I think there are lots of reasons why we see that uplift within pregnancy in those early days.
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And it's really hard for parents because you want to present a picture that everything's perfect.
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This is meant to be the happiest time of your life but for many
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parents it's a really really challenging time and I heard a statistic recently
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that one in five couples separate before the baby turns 12 months old and so
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you know this impacts a lot of families even if it's not domestic abuse the
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levels of conflict can definitely rise during that period of time.
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So that and that in itself is really stark
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isn't it it shows you that it's it
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is an incredibly difficult process to go
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through and I think the more we can call out it's if
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it doesn't feel great at the moment it's please don't play into that feeling
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of it's meant to be the best time of my life and it's meant to be perfect and
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I'm supposed to be a perfect person perfect parent even but what might be,
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past all the stresses and the strains of tiredness,
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maybe financial reduction and all the other pressures that come with being a
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parent, what might be some of the telltale factors or what might be some of
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the signs maybe that you're experiencing that.
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Elements of that power imbalance so the
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coercive control potentially yeah I
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think what's important as a charity we take a trauma-informed approach
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to domestic abuse and so even if you're thinking about
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yourself or you're thinking about someone in your life that you care about
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a friend or a family member it can be quite
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difficult if someone comes straight in with the are you
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experiencing domestic abuse you know and I
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think what what's helpful is to kind of explore even
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in your own thinking or about others kind of how how
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safe how safe does home feel how safe are you
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feeling at the moment you know what's bringing you joy in
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your life at the moment what's bringing you happiness at the
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moment um is there anything that feels difficult or areas
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where you're you're struggling to cope and how is
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it for you as a family at the moment how is it for you as a
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couple at the moment is there anything more i can.
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Do to support is there anything that could help you is there anything
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that's worrying you or doesn't feel quite right that
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you want to explore I think it's about asking yourself those
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questions and asking those questions of others and
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just opening up that space because what we do know
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is that people are really scared to share what's going on for them in
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pregnancy because there's a lot of fears around what will happen what
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will happen to the baby what might happen to other children and what I would
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say is we work with social care teams all the time they're not in the business
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of taking babies away they're in the business of keeping families safe and it's
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so important that you talk to your midwife you talk to your health visitor you
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talk to your gp because they are used to having those conversations.
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And you say what's concerning you and what's on your mind and and you know it
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will be okay and that's so important to get that message across because it can
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be a real barrier just not knowing what will happen if you say something that
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people really want to help you and they want to help your whole family give
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your baby what your baby needs.
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That's so well put. And I don't think it's not always posed in that way.
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And there probably has been quite a big movement towards that by certain professionals.
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But I know for some, the experience is still being asked outright of,
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are you experiencing domestic abuse?
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So I think if you're in a position where you, so if you're in a position then
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where you aren't quite feeling quite safe,
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it's important from what you're saying to actually speak to a professional,
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maybe in those terms of not feeling quite right or the relationship is doesn't
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feel quite right at the moment.
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And knowing that that's hopefully going to be taken in place.
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Gentle and supportive way but it's just really important
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to reach out to somebody whoever that
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is just start to talk about those
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feelings I mean how what's I
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guess with the work that you do in the work that you do with with
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parents how vital is that
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starting to talk and open up and look
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at what's going on for them how how important is that
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yeah it's really important and it's that first step to
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positive change isn't it and on our website
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for baby's sake trust we've got some different things that can support around
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this we've got parental relationship spectrum which
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helps you think about whether what you're experiencing
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is kind of you know what a lot of people go through in
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terms of conflict or whether it's moving into domestic abuse and
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abusive behaviors can help you think about that
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but it is it's so important just to say you
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know that this has been happening and I'm not quite sure and not
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to be afraid to do that and to think about what
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impact is it having on you because I think
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that's so so important that you know sometimes we think oh it's not important
00:16:27.169 --> 00:16:31.729
or I don't think it was abuse I think it was just this but if it's making you
00:16:31.729 --> 00:16:37.809
feel sad scared anxious that's having an impact and so it's being able to explain
00:16:37.809 --> 00:16:41.949
to a friend or to professional that this is happening and this is how it's making me feel.
00:16:42.429 --> 00:16:46.509
Because what we look at a lot within our work is what you're going through as mum.
00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.580
You know if you're pregnant is having an impact on your baby and
00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:53.420
so we know so much about baby development now that
00:16:53.420 --> 00:16:56.500
even mum's stress levels have a direct impact on
00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:59.400
on baby and so it's being able to think about
00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:03.920
you know what do I need and what does my baby need to have you know a really
00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:09.280
safe and healthy pregnancy and entry into the world and so it's about really
00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:14.800
sort of being able to share you know in in a in a safe space this just doesn't
00:17:14.800 --> 00:17:17.020
feel quite right and I think we need some more help.
00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:20.320
I think the other thing I would say as well is around sort of
00:17:20.320 --> 00:17:23.200
mental health over the perinatal period and
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.860
during that period of time for lots of people it can be a real
00:17:25.860 --> 00:17:30.560
struggle and it can be a struggle for dads too and so if you're worried about
00:17:30.560 --> 00:17:34.580
the mental health of your partner during this period of time if they're you
00:17:34.580 --> 00:17:39.040
know becoming increasingly anxious and depressed turning to substance abuse
00:17:39.040 --> 00:17:44.200
you know again it's really important to let people in and say things just don't feel right.
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.500
And again, that's not saying that everyone that experienced mental or health goes on to be abusive.
00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.940
Absolutely not. But it's about thinking about that context that puts stresses
00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:56.680
and strains on families and can make those things more likely to happen.
00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:02.360
Absolutely. And I love there that you've brought in the male partner too,
00:18:02.360 --> 00:18:06.120
because it's about validating how we feel.
00:18:06.340 --> 00:18:09.340
So if you are feeling in a certain way, the
00:18:09.340 --> 00:18:12.220
more that you can express that with your
00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:15.180
partner or if you really don't feel safe with
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:18.180
somebody that you have a good relationship with or a
00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:21.780
health professional is really important but
00:18:21.780 --> 00:18:25.300
as you were saying in a partnership and that
00:18:25.300 --> 00:18:31.620
could be same-sex partnership for example as parents that it's to say how you're
00:18:31.620 --> 00:18:37.020
feeling sometimes then opens door or gives the floor to the other person to
00:18:37.020 --> 00:18:42.340
say how they're feeling too And that's what you're saying is that that emotional
00:18:42.340 --> 00:18:45.100
ability to talk about that is really vital.
00:18:45.907 --> 00:18:49.047
Yeah. And also, you know, some parents, you know, really good that you brought
00:18:49.047 --> 00:18:53.767
up same-sex relationships as well. It's really important that they're seen and that they're heard.
00:18:53.987 --> 00:19:00.547
And also some families are living with grandparents as well and are experiencing
00:19:00.547 --> 00:19:04.167
that wider family dynamic and the pressure that that can put on.
00:19:04.407 --> 00:19:08.267
And you might feel like you're going to let everybody down if you share what
00:19:08.267 --> 00:19:10.347
you're experiencing and how it's making you feel.
00:19:10.467 --> 00:19:14.367
But just keep coming back to the fact that you matter and your baby matters.
00:19:14.367 --> 00:19:17.907
It's not about the rest of the wider family it's
00:19:17.907 --> 00:19:20.987
about you and your baby and that's where it's so important you
00:19:20.987 --> 00:19:24.947
know whatever your family dynamic is that you you ask for that help and you
00:19:24.947 --> 00:19:30.127
share what you're experiencing yeah I love that and I I've had a number of podcast
00:19:30.127 --> 00:19:35.007
guests who and it's very much about the focus on the child what can we do for
00:19:35.007 --> 00:19:40.367
the baby and when you put it in that context you're able to get over your own.
00:19:41.298 --> 00:19:44.518
Anxiety of it's just me I'm making
00:19:44.518 --> 00:19:47.338
this more than it needs to be or I'm making this up
00:19:47.338 --> 00:19:50.178
or it's not as bad as or I don't I you know it's
00:19:50.178 --> 00:19:52.998
just I don't it's my fault that I'm feeling
00:19:52.998 --> 00:19:56.358
this way because when you put baby first it
00:19:56.358 --> 00:19:59.258
allows you to start to articulate your emotions so you
00:19:59.258 --> 00:20:02.758
can support baby and doing the best for baby yeah
00:20:02.758 --> 00:20:05.478
and I've just been really reflecting actually over the last kind of
00:20:05.478 --> 00:20:08.798
few weeks about how sometimes within services
00:20:08.798 --> 00:20:11.518
we separate you know have services for women and then you have
00:20:11.518 --> 00:20:14.558
services for men and then you have services for babies and
00:20:14.558 --> 00:20:18.098
services for children in pregnancy pregnancy you
00:20:18.098 --> 00:20:21.538
can't separate mum and baby they come together as a team and
00:20:21.538 --> 00:20:24.578
so what's good for mum is good for baby and so
00:20:24.578 --> 00:20:27.578
you know and and also dad is within that
00:20:27.578 --> 00:20:30.718
somewhere very often a positive
00:20:30.718 --> 00:20:34.158
influence on that relation a key positive influence
00:20:34.158 --> 00:20:37.318
but sometimes no sometimes not or
00:20:37.318 --> 00:20:40.278
whether it's you know a same-sex partnership sometimes that other
00:20:40.278 --> 00:20:43.438
person is in your team and in your circle and other.
00:20:43.438 --> 00:20:46.678
Times they might be making things really challenging for you but
00:20:46.678 --> 00:20:50.038
it's really important that we see that and that we embrace that
00:20:50.038 --> 00:20:53.838
you know where dads want to be a really positive co-parent
00:20:53.838 --> 00:20:57.038
they want to be there for their partner and the baby they need
00:20:57.038 --> 00:20:59.978
help to do that too like none of us are born knowing what
00:20:59.978 --> 00:21:03.158
to do right we have no idea how to parents oh thank
00:21:03.158 --> 00:21:06.478
you can you just say that again we have no idea
00:21:06.478 --> 00:21:10.578
and it doesn't get any easier as they get i love it none of
00:21:10.578 --> 00:21:13.858
us let's make that really really clear none of us have any
00:21:13.858 --> 00:21:20.258
idea what we're doing when we first become parents and we all bring what we
00:21:20.258 --> 00:21:26.638
went through as children and we all bring those models of relationships yeah
00:21:26.638 --> 00:21:32.238
good bad different into a new relationship and into that relationship with your baby as well.
00:21:32.518 --> 00:21:37.078
And it's about understanding that you don't have to have it all fixed or sorted.
00:21:37.931 --> 00:21:43.911
But putting baby first and making sure that baby's safe and that you're safe is really important.
00:21:44.511 --> 00:21:47.851
It goes back to what you said about the emotional backpack. I think that's such
00:21:47.851 --> 00:21:50.631
a good image that both parents are carrying that backpack.
00:21:51.011 --> 00:21:54.451
And I've been feeling a bit frustrated recently as well around the emphasis
00:21:54.451 --> 00:21:58.731
within sort of family hubs and children's centres on parenting programmes around.
00:21:58.951 --> 00:22:03.311
We're going to teach you how to parent, not seeing how many of us as parents
00:22:03.311 --> 00:22:05.411
need to be parented ourselves.
00:22:05.411 --> 00:22:08.291
We need to be loved and cared for
00:22:08.291 --> 00:22:11.131
ourselves just need someone to mother us and
00:22:11.131 --> 00:22:14.391
say you're going to be okay and or father us
00:22:14.391 --> 00:22:17.151
in a positive way and say I'm going to support you
00:22:17.151 --> 00:22:20.331
and I'm going to help you and we can get through this together we feel
00:22:20.331 --> 00:22:23.511
like as soon as we become parents we suddenly become the responsible adult
00:22:23.511 --> 00:22:26.191
and a lot of us don't feel like that and don't know
00:22:26.191 --> 00:22:28.991
how to be that and so it's having you know
00:22:28.991 --> 00:22:31.931
real care for ourselves as well
00:22:31.931 --> 00:22:34.791
and knowing this is how everybody feels but for some of us
00:22:34.791 --> 00:22:37.671
we need that extra support and it's okay to ask
00:22:37.671 --> 00:22:40.831
for help I love that and it really kind
00:22:40.831 --> 00:22:44.011
of gave me goosebumps of that point of actually you may
00:22:44.011 --> 00:22:49.631
be a parent but you still need parenting so how important it is to say I don't
00:22:49.631 --> 00:22:55.651
feel safe or I don't feel comfortable or I don't feel happy and and what's that
00:22:55.651 --> 00:23:01.371
about so I suppose we'll kind of go one way to another so So if someone isn't
00:23:01.371 --> 00:23:02.911
feeling safe, and I think that's quite,
00:23:03.131 --> 00:23:07.411
it's a good enough kind of broad term to say, actually, this doesn't feel right
00:23:07.411 --> 00:23:08.711
and it doesn't feel safe.
00:23:09.449 --> 00:23:13.269
We've said about talking to someone they trust and a health,
00:23:13.449 --> 00:23:16.789
you know, a professional or a very close family member.
00:23:17.149 --> 00:23:21.889
What else can you do? I love the fact that you've got tools on your website.
00:23:22.009 --> 00:23:27.089
So we'll kind of, we'll put links into that. But if it's that growing feeling
00:23:27.089 --> 00:23:31.769
of this doesn't feel right and this doesn't feel safe, what kind of steps would I take?
00:23:32.369 --> 00:23:37.609
Yeah, well, I would definitely recommend contacting the National Domestic Abuse Helpline.
00:23:37.889 --> 00:23:41.849
You can talk to them. If you're immediately concerned about your safety,
00:23:41.849 --> 00:23:44.149
you need to contact the police. That's really important.
00:23:44.669 --> 00:23:48.169
And again, you know, we've seen lots in the news recently around how police
00:23:48.169 --> 00:23:51.989
forces are having lots more training around domestic abuse, including coercive
00:23:51.989 --> 00:23:54.589
control now, to be able to respond to that.
00:23:54.769 --> 00:23:58.809
I would say that it's really important to think about safety planning.
00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:02.829
So on our website, we've got free tools around how to develop your own emotional
00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:06.829
safety plan, about the different things that you need to feel safe.
00:24:06.989 --> 00:24:09.029
But think about that safety more widely.
00:24:09.189 --> 00:24:13.849
So think about, you know, who can you turn to, you know, who can you reach out
00:24:13.849 --> 00:24:16.849
to if you're really, if you're feeling tonight that you just need to get out
00:24:16.849 --> 00:24:18.509
of this situation, where can you go?
00:24:18.769 --> 00:24:23.489
Who can help you? It's really important to kind of have that safety planning in mind.
00:24:23.489 --> 00:24:26.549
But you know again there are
00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:29.629
there are lots of local domestic abuse
00:24:29.629 --> 00:24:33.129
charities as well in your local area and again your GP your
00:24:33.129 --> 00:24:36.369
midwife can give you details of those different services
00:24:36.369 --> 00:24:40.729
so you can reach out for help and assistance and they can really help you think
00:24:40.729 --> 00:24:45.069
about what your next steps are and they won't then you know they're there to
00:24:45.069 --> 00:24:50.189
help you and support you and be alongside you and help you make those decisions
00:24:50.189 --> 00:24:54.009
and help you clear your head to really think about what you need to do next.
00:24:54.189 --> 00:24:56.469
And again, they've got lots of experience in doing that.
00:24:56.649 --> 00:25:01.269
You can also contact the NSPCC helpline as well, which is something that I think
00:25:01.269 --> 00:25:03.109
a lot of people don't necessarily realise.
00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:06.189
And they've got domestic abuse specialists that work on their helpline.
00:25:06.409 --> 00:25:09.709
So if you're going through this yourself, or you're worried about somebody,
00:25:10.069 --> 00:25:12.969
again, they've got a team there that can help you and support you.
00:25:14.112 --> 00:25:17.992
I love that. And I think one of the things that jumped to my mind,
00:25:17.992 --> 00:25:26.112
it was, what if I told somebody and they dismissed what I was saying? So I think,
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.320
For example, if I say to my midwife, I'm not feeling very safe right now or,
00:25:30.460 --> 00:25:34.180
you know, I'm kind of getting the feeling that I'm not allowed out of the house
00:25:34.180 --> 00:25:39.460
unless my partner's with me or they've stopped me getting in touch with friends.
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:44.800
It doesn't feel very safe and it's downgraded.
00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:48.380
So if that person says, oh, you know, they're just looking after you or they're
00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:53.740
just making sure you're protected, but it still doesn't feel or it doesn't feel
00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:55.940
right and they haven't validated that.
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.180
What would be your advice to somebody going through that?
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.160
Yeah, and I think that can definitely happen. So particularly if we turn to
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:09.400
family and friends, sometimes we hear what we think we want to hear.
00:26:09.580 --> 00:26:12.980
So sometimes we want someone to say, oh, no, that's really normal.
00:26:13.120 --> 00:26:17.080
Don't worry about it. You know, everyone's like that. Or my partner's the same,
00:26:17.260 --> 00:26:19.360
but you know deep down it's not the same.
00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:23.300
You know deep down it's not okay, but you almost want to hear that.
00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:27.120
And so it's so important And if someone does sort of dismiss it or says,
00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:31.380
oh, I think that's normal, or someone might have reasons to say that.
00:26:31.600 --> 00:26:36.040
So, for example, if you're in a particular faith community, within that community,
00:26:36.040 --> 00:26:40.700
they might have an emphasis on staying within the relationship.
00:26:41.340 --> 00:26:45.240
Lots of cases they don't. There's lots of work being done within faith communities
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.040
around understanding domestic abuse, but that might be the case.
00:26:48.040 --> 00:26:50.780
When you're talking to family like we said they might have those
00:26:50.780 --> 00:26:53.480
vested interests and want you to stay together as
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:56.220
a family and it's their grandchild and they don't want
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:59.420
to think about anything other than the kind of perfect situation so
00:26:59.420 --> 00:27:02.620
that can happen I would say don't give up don't
00:27:02.620 --> 00:27:05.820
give up until you talk to someone that you feel really hears
00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:10.540
you and really seeks to understand that's where things like the domestic abuse
00:27:10.540 --> 00:27:15.400
helpline the NSPCC helpline are really important because they are trained professionals
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:19.100
who work with this all of the time and they'll really be able to help you work
00:27:19.100 --> 00:27:24.980
through whether this is okay or whether this doesn't seem safe and whether you need to get some help.
00:27:25.608 --> 00:27:29.608
Yeah. And I think, yeah, just listening to everything you're saying,
00:27:29.768 --> 00:27:33.828
it's, it's actually trust and you say, you know, you know, even when somebody
00:27:33.828 --> 00:27:38.468
tells you what you think you want to hear, you still will know deep down that
00:27:38.468 --> 00:27:40.108
it still doesn't feel right.
00:27:40.488 --> 00:27:44.768
So it's about then, as you said, kind of reaching out to those trusted professionals.
00:27:46.421 --> 00:27:49.401
Won't necessarily tell you I suppose that's part
00:27:49.401 --> 00:27:52.321
of it don't always just seek out somebody who will tell
00:27:52.321 --> 00:27:56.921
you what you know you want to hear yeah exactly
00:27:56.921 --> 00:27:59.581
that and sometimes our friends can feel awkward can't they or they
00:27:59.581 --> 00:28:03.421
might know your partner as well and so they don't want to fear or
00:28:03.421 --> 00:28:06.221
be the one that's blamed for anything that might happen and
00:28:06.221 --> 00:28:09.281
that's where getting that independent advice independent advice and
00:28:09.281 --> 00:28:12.201
support is really important and I'd also just say
00:28:12.201 --> 00:28:14.861
look for any dads that are listening as well we do work with
00:28:14.861 --> 00:28:17.881
dads who are impacted by abuse and this can happen
00:28:17.881 --> 00:28:21.061
to dads as well and I just want you to know that those helplines are there for
00:28:21.061 --> 00:28:25.601
you too and they do talk to other dads who are experiencing abuse again it's
00:28:25.601 --> 00:28:29.621
really important to reach out I think there's a lot of barriers to dads seeking
00:28:29.621 --> 00:28:33.501
help and support it can feel like it's not the done thing for men to say that
00:28:33.501 --> 00:28:37.301
they're experiencing abuse but really important to know that they're there for you too.
00:28:39.521 --> 00:28:45.961
Absolutely so we have covered quite a lot of ground in this and really hopefully
00:28:45.961 --> 00:28:50.801
unearth some of that and i love the the for me one of the biggest things is
00:28:50.801 --> 00:28:56.301
you know none of us know what we're doing but also about putting baby right
00:28:56.301 --> 00:28:58.961
at the heart keeping baby safe is the paramount,
00:29:00.281 --> 00:29:03.081
but and i suppose i'm going to round off
00:29:03.081 --> 00:29:05.801
as i do with all of these podcasts which is
00:29:05.801 --> 00:29:08.521
asking my guests because for those of us
00:29:08.521 --> 00:29:12.141
that are kind of further along our parenting journey it's it
00:29:12.141 --> 00:29:15.361
is easier beauty of hindsight but laurel
00:29:15.361 --> 00:29:19.321
if you were to give your younger lauren advice before
00:29:19.321 --> 00:29:22.441
she became a mum what advice
00:29:22.441 --> 00:29:27.101
would you give her oh i think
00:29:27.101 --> 00:29:34.041
i was so obsessed about getting married and having babies I grew up in a very
00:29:34.041 --> 00:29:37.601
evangelical Christian home where it was kind of the dumb thing to get married
00:29:37.601 --> 00:29:42.081
as young as possible and have children as young as possible so from my own perspective
00:29:42.081 --> 00:29:44.981
I think looking back I would just say you know.
00:29:46.241 --> 00:29:52.081
And don't put yourself under that pressure, you know, get to know who you are,
00:29:52.241 --> 00:29:57.661
enjoy being you, enjoy life, enjoy travel, enjoy all of those things without
00:29:57.661 --> 00:30:00.601
thinking that that's the goal, that that's the life goal.
00:30:00.801 --> 00:30:04.641
I think that would probably be the main advice that I would give myself,
00:30:04.841 --> 00:30:08.621
you know, easy to say with hindsight when you've got your family and your children, isn't it?
00:30:08.681 --> 00:30:11.721
It can feel really tough when that's something that you really want.
00:30:11.721 --> 00:30:14.761
But I would say just enjoy being you enjoy
00:30:14.761 --> 00:30:17.501
having time to yourself discovering yourself and knowing
00:30:17.501 --> 00:30:20.361
who you are I love that because that plays
00:30:20.361 --> 00:30:23.261
so much into the work that you do now Lauren in terms
00:30:23.261 --> 00:30:26.321
of supporting others to actually really
00:30:26.321 --> 00:30:29.181
see who they are and what their needs are and
00:30:29.181 --> 00:30:32.401
their emotional needs so I think that's beautiful and thank
00:30:32.401 --> 00:30:35.281
you so so much we will post all the links
00:30:35.281 --> 00:30:38.441
to everything that you've talked about today and just
00:30:38.441 --> 00:30:41.481
I think it's going back to one if
00:30:41.481 --> 00:30:44.221
you could give one piece advice for somebody who doesn't feel
00:30:44.221 --> 00:30:48.321
safe at the moment what would it be it would be it can get better it can get
00:30:48.321 --> 00:30:53.361
better just take that first step yeah I love it thank you so much Lauren thank
00:30:53.361 --> 00:30:59.401
you before we finish I just wanted to say this if today stirred anything up
00:30:59.401 --> 00:31:02.321
for you You don't need to make sense of it all right now.
00:31:02.581 --> 00:31:04.801
You can just let it land slowly.
00:31:05.741 --> 00:31:10.921
Parenting asks so much of us, especially when you're already feeling stretched.
00:31:11.441 --> 00:31:15.761
And sometimes just having the words for what we're feeling is enough for today.
00:31:17.002 --> 00:31:22.762
But if you do need more support, make sure you reach out to a trusted friend or professional.
00:31:23.582 --> 00:31:28.382
If this episode supported you in any way, you can follow by your side so that
00:31:28.382 --> 00:31:31.382
these conversations are there for you when you need them.
00:31:31.862 --> 00:31:35.962
Thank you for spending this time with me. I'm really glad you're here.
00:31:36.622 --> 00:31:41.122
Just a quick note before we finish. What you hear on this podcast is here to
00:31:41.122 --> 00:31:43.862
support you, not to replace professional advice.
00:31:43.862 --> 00:31:48.302
Everyone's situation is different So if you're worried about your own well-being
00:31:48.302 --> 00:31:50.502
or your babies Please speak to
00:31:50.502 --> 00:31:54.842
a qualified healthcare provider You deserve support that's tailored to you.