Why Psychedelic Therapy Is the Missing Piece in Trauma Recovery and Mental Health

Burning Bear: All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of the Burning Bear podcast. And I am your host, Anthony. And man, I'm a little shell shocked today. Like, what do they call that when you when you're like with a famous person and you like don't know is that what is that called? They call me out, Chad. I need some help. Like you're the famous guy. Like, what are you doing to me right now? I need to know. ⁓
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Get out of here. Get out of here. No way. Not even close, dude. Not even close.
Burning Bear: So I have a real life celebrity with me named Chad and last name is McLean, correct? I got that right. Look at me. See, I did like two seconds of show research and Chad owns a little company called Mental Joe and anybody who knows me and I've been a huge advocate for Mental Joe for a few years. In fact, I wear mostly Mental Joe apparel. It's it is one hands down.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Done. Easy.
Burning Bear: my favorite veteran psychedelic brand period. And I just wanted to say thank you for wearing that. I'm wearing my my mushroom shirt, my most complemented shirt that I own every time somebody sees that they're like, dude, I love that. That are the the big eight one with the love like the gorilla dude, I get so much stuff. So ⁓ yeah, so you own a little apparel brand. And ⁓ man, so let's go back into our like our history. I think that's going to be a good place to start. And
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": love it. Yes. Yeah, dude.
Burning Bear: and then we'll talk a little bit about you. We'll introduce you and I know you said you've said all your stuff to the audience so they can go check out all that background information. We'll keep it fun and exciting over here. the year was 2024. And what was like November?
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": That's it. October, October.
Burning Bear: October, October. Yeah, we went down, I was down at MCon. I went actually for the two shows. We did the MIC which is the Military Influencers Conference, and then turned around and rolled over to the MCon. And when I showed up at MCon, I'm walking around doing the booth thing and I'm scouting for talent. And and behold, I come around a corner. And see mental Joe ⁓ ⁓ seen your apparel. absolutely loved it. I think ⁓ started our conversation with me buying a few shirts ⁓ ⁓ some stickers. ⁓ then I got a chance to meet you down there at MCon in Vegas. Now, you're of Arizona, is that correct? Yeah.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": That is correct. Yep. We're just outside of Phoenix. Yeah.
Burning Bear: Okay, so getting over to Vegas isn't that big of a deal, but yeah, so you're out there, you're at the MCon we're doing things and I see your brand and I just fell in love with it. And then I met you and your wife. And I will say for me, That I think was what took it over the top because I developed an immediate connection to you guys. I felt like, ⁓ man, these guys are authentic. You weren't selling me bullshit. You weren't trying to tell me things were one way when they weren't. You were just being very honest, very authentic. You were openly sharing your story. And then I noticed right away, and especially since I've had the time to know you, that you are in a lot of lanes. You are networking, you're affiliating, you're working with so many veterans.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah.
Burning Bear: Every time I turn around, you're on somebody else's podcast or, you know, I'm finding you on documentaries and things like that. Like you were just so intimately well connected within the community. And ⁓ I really appreciate the kind of promotion that you're doing. And I appreciate you taking the time to show up on this podcast today. So ⁓ there's that. But why don't you take a few minutes and just tell the audience about yourself and let's start talking about the brand and talking about drugs.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Let's do it. Well, first of all, let's let's scrap. Let's scrap the thing in MCon that you're looking for talent, because if that was the case, you failed by finding me. OK, so no, no, I appreciate it, man. Like you said, when we met at MCon we hit it off right away. And, you know, like you said, I am I am and I'm authentic. I say like it is. There's really no beating around the bush. You know, if people don't like me, they don't like me. Change the fucking channels the way I look at it. Kind of a deal, you know. ⁓
Burning Bear: Yeah.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": The authentic piece of who Carrie and I are is what resonates with people. It's what brings people in to sit down and for them to go ahead and share their story or share where they're at or share where their rock bottom is. And then through there, you gain a friend, you gain a customer. Or with that, we're helping people find ketamine clinics or some kind of plant medicine retreat that's either underground or... you know, in Peru or Denver or Oregon or wherever have you be that's, know, kind of like you said, we're very well connected in that arena. And for that purpose is, you know, mental Joe is, is a brand and the brand is here to build community and bring awareness to psychedelic therapies. That's really why the brand was launched. ⁓ and really, as you've seen it, the, designs, the brand, ⁓ it creates conversation. People see a big mushroom shirt with the grenade or the warrior in the garden shirt. And at immediate, people go, what is it about? And so I get to tell a little bit of my story. And then they realize, ⁓ I have something similar that I carry as well. So for us, it's being that authentic individual. It's holding that space for those folks that are at their rock bottom. And they don't know another way out because they're so used to, let's say, traditional therapies. ⁓ A lot of them are scared. We've talked about the spiritual world and how there's all these big egos in it and there's some darkness in all this light. ⁓ We try to guide people that are, I guess you'd say, on the fence with the psychedelic therapies. They're interested, but they don't know who to trust. It's scary. They don't know who to talk to. And Mental Joe is just that brand. We are the community brand around psychedelics, veterans, first responders, and your average Joes. And it's funny as we connected today, you know, to give some people a background that are going to be listening to this later, they've never seen me. ⁓ Today literally is six years ago to the day that I am in the Cuckoo Bin. So six years ago, this minute I'm sitting at a Cuckoo Bin in downtown Phoenix ⁓ from the previous night, you know, putting a gun to my head with a tension on the trigger, not wanting to be here anymore. ⁓ So May is always kind of a heavy month. for me, especially this week, it brings remembrance of where and what could have been. But then it also gives me the ability to reflect, slow down, and realize, dude, in six years, look where we've come and look how far we've essentially changed the story. mean, me and my wife went from struggling, barely surviving, to looking at divorce attorneys, to now, we are thriving. and we're connected and we got two whole little boys ⁓ and that's what psychedelic therapies has done for us. ⁓ So yeah, in a 10,000 foot version without all the back details of everything, that's kind of who I am and where we're at and what we're doing.
Burning Bear: Well. Wow, I tell you what, I actually learned a little bit in that story. I wasn't aware of the ⁓ suicide attempt that started that. We had talked about ⁓ different levels of that, I think. But man, that's powerful. ⁓ obviously, situations that I can relate to, I never got locked up or anything like that for it, I have definitely, suicidal ideation is ⁓ a big part of the manic depression depression that I've suffered for many, years. you know what I thought was interesting in that is like your story and my story start almost exactly the mine started late 2019, 2020 was a was a big turning point for me. And that's kind of what I attribute like the beginning of like my journey. Now, you know, and I've realized and maybe you have as well that like I was obviously doing certain things to get me to that starting point way before that. You know, there are probably a decade of very micro little individual changes that were leading to that point. But it was still up until that point. It was pretty much downhill. And, you know, so man, I'm so glad that you didn't do that. And I'm so glad that you find your way through it, you know, and that is, you know, we were talking about this a little bit before the show. It's like, that's what this is all about. You know, I am disenfranchised with the spiritual community. I do get very frustrated when I see people stand up here and they're talking about being gurus and spiritual leaders and...
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Mm-hmm.
Burning Bear: This is not meant to be a religion and this is not meant to be a cult and this space is no one has the answers. Like let's truly be honest with that. I can deep dive the existential questions with people until they're blue in the face for hours. But you know what the reality is? Is you know, you can always come back to is I don't know. And you don't know until you know. And that's the point. But what we can do is we can share stories. We can talk about our experiences. We can say, hey, this is what I did. This is where I was at. Can you relate to that? And if you can, then cool, man. This is what I did to try to get out of it. But I can't help you do it. That's you. ⁓
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You got it. that's just it. think everyone thinks like, again, psychedelics, right? They think it's, we want the immediate reaction from stuff, right? The magic pill. And so I think that's the problem, right? Is everyone takes these substances and, you know, they're in that afterglow period depending upon what medicine they take, right? Whether it's, you know, ketamine that's roughly got a 72 hour to a week window of neuroplasticity or you're doing Ibogaine or you're doing DMT that has a four week neuroplasticity window, right? And so you're in that afterglow period, everything's fucking cool, right on, I'm going to be the best in the world. And then afterglow wears off and you're right back in the storm because you didn't do any work. You didn't do any of the integration and perfectly said, like when we talked to other veterans, first responders or average Joe's, it's the one thing I always tell people. Like this is what helped me heal. And if you have fought and fought and fought for years and taken the SSRIs and done the traditional talk therapy and you've done it all and it hasn't worked. Maybe look at this, non-traditional, go look at the psychedelic path. But at like, at the end of the day, you got to go to the creek, you got to drink the water and you got to do the work. I can take you there. I can show you what helped me, but perfectly said, you know, I'm no guru. I'm just a dude that found a path and it works for me. And I'm using apparel to speak it and get other folks, you know, on this side of the fence, you know? And once that happens, people start looking at life a little bit differently.
Burning Bear: BOOM Dude, yeah, that's a love how you said that. I resonate with with so much of what you just said. And it's like I consider myself a guide, like a facilitator. Right. All the work is being done by somebody else. I'm just putting out what I feel may be some way points so that they can have a little help with the navigation of things and and access information. But, you know, even when you said that on the show, it's like this is a starting point. This isn't the end point. Don't take something I said here and let it stop there. Like, go do your hours and days.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yep. Yep.
Burning Bear: and weeks of research on what I just said and then tell me come back later and tell me what you think because I might be wrong and you know I think that's the best thing that we that we can do it's it's unfortunate that though that there are so many predators out in this space. And, you know, I that that is really what it is. You know, they they sell this idea of like this perpetual healing. It never stops. It never ends. Like, you know, what doesn't end life? Like, as long as you're living, you're going to have traumas, you're going to have stresses like you're going to deal with it. Right. But this healing process. And I was thinking about this the other night. I wanted to run this by you, see what you thought. I actually don't like the term healing. The healing
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You said it. Yep. It's... That's it.
Burning Bear: implies that something is wrong and like really in a lot of cases it's not it's a wholeness you're separated from your true self because there are just layers and layers of bullshit that's put onto you in society the world the matrix whatever you want to call it and what what you have to do is you're just rediscovering that like all right without all of this bullshit
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Exactly.
Burning Bear: Who am I really? And how do I get back to like me in the person that I want to be and how do I want to express in this world? And so it's not really about healing. And I think that was the, that was what got me caught up. Right. I started the healing path and then, you know, I tell people, said, you know, I didn't realize that this thing does have an end, you know? And then I realized like, well, it isn't really a healing end because you're never, because you're not really healing from something. you're never really healed. Trauma's trauma, it's gonna happen, that's just life.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": It's, yeah, and you're gonna have new shit pop up constantly through life and me just, and I'll jump back in here, but I mean, so I think it comes down to, like you said, your authentic self. Would it come, like who we're supposed to be? I think that's what psychedelics help us find, right? Like it helps us erase the story that we've created with all these different layers, like you said, of the matrix and where we're at today in society. You know, for me, again, give some people some background. You know, I burnt in on a jump, my parachute collapsed. Right? So I burnt in, blew out my back, blew out my knees, ⁓ be became dependent on pain pills to, be an operator, right? Because I couldn't go into sick call at Ranger Battalion because then I'd be labeled this other thing. So what do you do? You grin and bear it. You do your thing. Well, through that, I ended up making some really bad decisions at Ranger Battalion got kicked out. And then I took hazing on, I mean, special operations, you know, you know how it goes. Ranger Battalion. You're in there, there's blood in the water. The hazing I took, dude, I don't wish that on anybody. The hazing I took was gnarly. But for years and years and years, up until just recently, I thought I deserved it. I thought, you know what, I screwed up. That's part of it. I'll take it on the chin. I'll shut up. I'll do my thing. Right? And so what did that do? It created this character of being a bar fighter. You know, so I went back home to Billings, Montana. I was popping pills and drinking and... If some guy came after me and popped his mouth out, man, I was the first one to knock him out because I'm like, I'm not, I'm not going to be treated like I was a Ranger Battalion. So then it created this whole character that I had to try to live up to when really, if I really pull all the layers back, people liked me in high school because I was a nice guy. People liked me in high school because I hung out with the special needs kids or I hung out with the underdogs and you know, I did, I did the thing. I was kind to people. And through psychedelics, that's, I mean, that's really what it's got me to do. It's got me to get back to being that authentic individual and looking those stories in the mirror and saying, dude, this isn't you. Stop playing this role. You don't have to do this anymore. Like be the kind guy. And then I just had an accident literally a month ago that, you know, ⁓ cracked my skull and I got fractures in my back and jacked up to where I had a bunch of hematomas that were squeezing on my sciatica and They thought I was gonna be paralyzed in my right leg the whole nine yards, right? But because I've done so much work, I just kind of looked at it and smiled and said, hey, you know what? I'm not dead. I'm not paralyzed. This is just a thing. I'm gonna get through it. It's gonna be okay. And then just moving forward in the way that I needed to be. And that's, for me, that's what the psychedelics has done. Like you said, healing is always gonna be continuous. You just gotta live. And I think where I'm trying to get to is the psychedelics help you learn to... navigate those heavy waters when they're here, right? ⁓ You know, that kind of accident that I would have had if I was my old mindset, it would have been, ⁓ fuck it, I'm a loser, here we go again, nothing works out for me. But instead, it's like, no, this is meant to happen. Maybe I needed to slow down to look at things from a different angle and, you know, universe said, hey, dude, we're gonna give you another accident. We're gonna see how you react to this one to see if you fall on back.
Burning Bear: Yeah.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": to old times, you know? So a little bit longer of a story and a little bit of a background, but I think to your point, like, we're always gonna heal, we're always gonna grow, but I think it comes down to how do you navigate the storm? How do you navigate the waters when shit's tough? You know, and I think that's what the psychedelics can teach us.
Burning Bear: Amen. You said that so well. Like I have like three hours of stuff to say on like what you just said. But you know, you're right. You were absolutely right. And that is, think, the most critical understanding of what we are doing in this space. isn't just the medicine. It's one, the medicine has science behind it. The medicine has neuroplasticity. You know, when you have the opportunity, people don't realize what brain damage is and how brain damage is accumulated over time. And you know,
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": you
Burning Bear: if we had a broken arm, my arm was in a sling and you were like, hey man, you want to go play basketball? could see it. Yeah, obviously I'm not going to be playing basketball right now. I'm in a sling, dude. But people are doing the same thing with their mental health. They're saying, well, I'm having these thoughts. I'm feeling this way. Yeah, but you have 30 % brain damage. Your brain isn't functioning right. How do you think you're going to heal through this?
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Correct.
Burning Bear: when you have a substantial injury up here. So it's like, number one, what is the medicine? For me, it's like, OK, well, this is an actual physiological, biological fix. OK, first off. So I'm getting back to zero so that I can start to work on things. And then it comes down to psychology. It comes down to behavior. It comes down to picking up techniques like journaling and how to ⁓ emotionally regulate, how to process your
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Exactly.
Burning Bear: emotional space in your thoughts and then you're 100 % right. That's what it comes down to. You know, when I have events in my life because they don't stop, but it's now, I now have the tools to navigate these places and spaces. And there was a while where I was going to police departments when I lived back in Missouri and I was trying to talk to police departments about adopting psychedelic therapies for their soldier or for their
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": That's it.
Burning Bear: ⁓ for their police officers, especially like SWAT and stuff like that, know, police officer, soldiers, same thing. Anytime, anybody that's in service, like they're going to war on a regular basis. So, you know, but and it was always the conversation, the rebuttal that I would get was, well, we have to wait because these things aren't legal. We have to wait until these guys get out. And my rebuttal to that was, why are you getting rid of good quality seasoned people who have the experience? You know, you have all of this term. You get this guy that comes into the door. Obviously he's a good operator. He's good at what he's doing. He's kicking indoors. He's taking names. He's doing the things that you wanted to be doing. But then once he gets to a certain level of trauma, well, we can't use him anymore. So we got to retire him to pasture so that we can traumatize some new kid that just came in. But it's like how much better served would you be if you could just teach your people how to manage the trauma, how to manage the stress and the things that they have so that now you somebody with all this experience that comes out of a bad situation they do the healing they do the work they come through it they use the medicine then they get to the other space and they're still in the job why are we retiring out people with experience when those are the people that we need because we just are recognizing that well I just don't know how to deal with the trauma of this
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, well, and it comes back to the old, you know, it's why? Because it's how we've always done it. Right? It's, we've always done it this way. And again, it's there on a lot of this stuff is schedule one. being cops, right, they're scared of it instead of like, you know what, dude, let me do some education on this. Like, mainly do some research. Like, what do you got? Like, how can I learn about this stuff? And that's the same thing we do with that mental Joe. I can't tell you how many conversations, you know,
Burning Bear: Mm.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": we run into and people are like, well, you know, it's on schedule one and it's the thing and it's this. And I'm like, yeah, and do you want to heal or do you want to continue popping the pills or you want to continue pounding a bottle of JD on the weekend? Like, you know, if you want to white knuckle through life, I'll shut my mouth and I'll turn around and walk away because your mental health to me, it doesn't affect how I run my life. I'm trying to help you get to the next stage of life. So you're not, you know, white knuckling it constantly. You know, and I think That's the one thing we do with Mental Joe is I try to learn about these medicines and the history and the education and the science behind all this stuff. So when I met with stuff like that and say, hey man, here's some resources, here's some documentaries, just go look at this stuff for yourself and we'll have another conversation when you're ready for it. And I think guys like you and me and others that are in this space, I think that's how we lead. We gotta lead with education and the data that's there because again, The psychedelic space, it's big, but it's not that big. And it's like, if we can talk about this stuff to the fans writers, you know, there's a number out there. Paul Austin F says there's 8 million people that admitted that, that they took mushrooms last year or microdosed. I said, okay, well, I haven't taken a survey. My wife hasn't taken a survey. So if you're saying 8 million, let's, let's quadruple that, right? Let's maybe even five times that number.
Burning Bear: No.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": So I you're probably easily looking at, you know, 50 to 60 million people that are microdosing or have had some kind of plant medicine intervention or they've tried it, right? And if you, if you even notch that up, that's a third of Americans, right? Cause a lot of people aren't talking about this stuff. I, you know, the conversations we had when we started this roughly four years ago, we'd be at a conference. We'd be at, you know, some kind of pop-up venue. and people would look at Carrie and I like, we're crazy. Ketamine, mushrooms, like what are you guys talking about? Now we go to a conference, now we do something. Nine out of 10 people coming up to us says, hey dude, I sat with Ayahuasca three weeks ago. Hey, I just started doing microdosing. Hey, I sat with ketamine for my first time and it was mind blowing and it's changing me. So it's like the conversations are changing and changing rapidly. you know, I would probably say the number is probably close to 100 million people that have had some kind of intervention or worked with these plant medicines at least once, if not continuously. It's just they're on a schedule once, so no one wants to talk about it. And I say, hey, I'll happily be the ⁓ weird apparel guy that vomits psychedelics and talks about it. I don't care. You want to arrest me for giving information, trying to help people get on the other side of life? OK, so be it.
Burning Bear: Yeah, no, I agree with that because I think that the conversation needs to be had because it's so misunderstood. know, when people think of psychedelics, you know, I had actually a really respected person in my life responded to an email that I sent the other day and they said, well, I don't support psychedelics. know, newer research that's came out has showed that 5 % of people that take psychedelics, that they stay in a psychedelic type state and, you know, they're being diagnosed with schizophrenia. And I thought, ⁓ well, that's
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yes.
Burning Bear: terrible. I 100 % agree that but I don't I don't agree that this is the reason why you're against psychedelics. How about we do some science here? Why don't we identify like what's going on with the precursors here? What is it about these individuals that make them more susceptible to stay open like that? ⁓ What can we do to help these people? Because you're telling me that you're not going to accept something because 5 % of the people in the study have had this reaction. Well, but what about a Zepic? What about opioids? What about freaking
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Here we go.
Burning Bear: like way more than 5 % have stomach bleeding and ulcerations and bad and all this stuff that happens from like Tylenol ibuprofen shit that you can buy over the counter but when it comes to psychedelics because of the dare program it's like ⁓ no these are some terrible things it's like yeah okay but it also like literally regrows brain tissue like literally
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": My, some of my, some of my favorite stuff is when we'll, we'll have like barbecues and you know, everyone's talking about it. And I always talk psychedelics. I'm like a goddamn walking billboard for it. You know, so I'm always talking about it and I'll be goddamn if we'll be at some place and someone was, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, they're two fist and Bud lights and something else. And I look at them and I go, do you realize alcohol is like one of the worst drugs that's out here on the planet next to sugar? But yet we don't.
Burning Bear: Yeah.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You know, you can buy both of those things at just about any corner in America and no one's saying anything about that. So I mean, the propaganda works. It's there. It works. It's proven it.
Burning Bear: Okay. There you know, you just brought it up. You talked about addiction. I actually almost responded to a comment the other night that I seen online. This person was talking about addiction and psychedelics and like, you know, cannabis is addictive and all this stuff and it had to do with cannabis. And I actually laughed because, you know, Dr. Joshua Siegel, he was out of Washington University. Now he's out of NYU and he's he's up there. He's doing psilocybin research and he is a legitimate MD. He's a PhD doctor, like working at some of the top medical places in the country. ⁓ when he gave his presentation at the Missouri Psychedelic Conference, ⁓ inside of his presentation is a slide in it, it's a scale. And on the scale, has this line, and it's ⁓ a, I forgot what they're called, scatter charts. It's a scatter chart, okay? And so it has like addiction levels, and then it's like least addictive to most addictive, plus, know, then it also was dangerous. Like, not only is this addictive,
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yep, I know exactly where you're going with this.
Burning Bear: This is like super dangerous. Like you should not touch this and cannabis psilocybin a lot of the things that we call schedule one drugs were not only were they on the furthest lowest point of addictive properties and safety But when you the ones that were not there the ones that were actually dangerous that were blowing me away Like if somebody would have told me that like hey, you know sugar is more addictive
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Super harmful. Yeah. way down here. But no harm.
Burning Bear: and more dangerous for you than heroin whoa cocaine what seriously sugar ⁓ yeah sugar is like one of the most dangerous addictive things that we drugs like it's a drug sugar is a drug I'm not gonna shy away from that like I avoid sugar
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": See ya. It is, 100 % it is. Yeah, I mean, and I, and I do now, I mean, I will ever once in a while, let the fat kid eat that's inside of me. I'll let him go at it. But I mean, that was one of my biggest struggles, right? Because of my depression and everything else that was going on. Like I would binge eat and it would not be good stuff. It would, you know, I always joke like, Hey, if there were six cupcakes sitting on the counter, you better get one. Cause I'm getting the, I'm getting five, you know? I mean, I had that kind of addiction with sugar. And it's funny that you, you mentioned that scale, which I think you probably need to like.
Burning Bear: Mm-hmm.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": pop that scale into this podcast so people can see it. But it's true. I mean, LSD, all that stuff way, way down here, non addictive, not harmful on the scale, way up top alcohol is the number one on it. But again, it's sold everywhere, but no one wants to talk about that. No one wants to talk about this stuff. ⁓ you know, so I think again, it comes down to guys like us and others in the community, like really take the research and talk about this and continue to show up and continue to talk about this stuff. in ways that the average Joe's out there, again, you just bring up psychedelics and the ears burn, right? It's an immediate no to everybody. But I think those tides are slowly starting to change through conversations like we're having and like the doctor that went out to Missouri and showed the scale of the different drugs that are addictive and are harmful and are sold on every fricking corner. I think that's what we have to do. We just have to continually show up and and be the authentic voices out there.
Burning Bear: Yeah, and I agree with that. And that's what I try to encourage people to do as well. And I think that, you we talk about like personal development, personal growth. There's an element in that space that involves. I'm going to try to articulate this the best way that I can. It involves shedding social narratives. We don't realize how absolutely programmed we are. by the matrix, adopting these social narratives all the way through. And so I would encourage anyone that's listening out there, you're one of these people and you're having a negative reaction to psychedelics or cannabis or drugs and you're like, no, I don't like this stuff, I'm not saying that it's for you. I'm not even gonna tell you that it's a perfectly 100 % safe. What I will say you should do though is you should research it. You should educate yourself on it. And then once you're done with the research and the education,
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": you Yes. Yes.
Burning Bear: and then once you've got to a point, then you need to make a decision. Is this a right option for you? That's it. That's all we're asking.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": That's it. That's it. That's it. Yep. Yeah. And it's again, nail on the head. think we're both on the same boat and we're rowing the same damn way. You know, again, that's why. And again, I got it. People are going to say it's weird and booga booga and whatever you want to call it. But I mean, I literally got the download to go start mental Joe apparel through a ketamine session. And then every time I set and I go do, you know, some heavy medicine work, whether it be with five MEO DMT, whether it be with psilocybin.
Burning Bear: Mmm.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": I always get the nod to be like, dude, you're on the right path. Just keep doing your thing. Cause this, this hasn't been fun. It hasn't been an easy path. mean, Carrie and I are, you know, in debt to our eyeballs and we've helped over 400 people individually. Just Carrie and I, mean, it's literally just carried me doing this, doing this thing. And we saved, I don't want to say we saved, but we guided probably over 50 different marriages to MDMA therapy to sit with, with people that hold that space. And man. those people come out there and go, I didn't realize I could love my wife or I didn't realize I could love my husband or my significant other in a way. Like, holy shit, this stuff is powerful. And the same thing, if you just look at the history of MDMA, right? I think Merck had a patent on it for over 100 years. Once that patent expired, right, everyone started making it. But early 70s ⁓ to the early 80s, it was used for couples therapy. That's what MDMA was intended for, was couples therapy. And it worked. Well, Unfortunately, MDMA got released into the gay Dallas night scene and more methamphetamines got added to it. And that's where you got Molly and that's where you got ecstasy. And then before you know it, it got outlawed in 85 and it's been on schedule one ever since. But it's something that Carrie and I talk about. We say, hey man, you know, as a married couple, as part of our contract to be whole with each other, we go set with MDMA once a quarter just to reconnect. just so her and I can say, we got all these little, these two little minions that we're raising. Life is crazy. The matrix is crazy. We're doing all this other stuff. This is a good way for her and I to put all the armor at the front door, reconnect and say, hey, I still love you. Let's work on these little things and have some hard conversations while we're in this space. So again, you've got to use this stuff with reverence, right? And if you understand what these things can do for you, as you know, they're an absolute game changer if they're used right.
Burning Bear: Yeah, I agree. I tell you what, you're talking about a subject that I actually don't know that much about MDMA. I wear your shirt, but ⁓ you know, I've never done MDMA and I want to actually take the direction. There's an interesting direction. I want to come here. I want to talk about psychedelics and couples and because you and I have had both a very unique experience in the world of psychedelics in our relationships. And, you know, I've said this in one of the other podcasts that I put
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": ⁓ man. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Burning Bear: out but like a lot of people don't realize like psychedelics cause divorce like 100 % 100 % like people need to be aware of this like this and and I and you know in the explanation that I provide with that is and the reason why is anytime that you are committed to change and you're talking about dramatic change
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yes, they do. Yes they do. Big changes.
Burning Bear: You you your partner has to be aligned with you and wanting to move in the same direction and accepting of the direction that you're moving because if you're not, you're going to start changing and that person's gonna be like, you're not the person that I married and they're right. And you may not stay together at that point. So I got very fortunate in that my partner was and I think that this is the most important part. My partner was committed. to going through the growth experience with me and on her own so that we were both heading to the same relative destination, understanding and knowing that the trip there was going to involve a lot of waves, right? It's not going to be a smooth walk or ride.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.
Burning Bear: But we were committed to that. that made, you know, all the way down to like, I don't know about what your experience. So we go to Ayahuasca and our first time with psychedelics is Aya, you know, cause I do, I didn't, I didn't small into anything. It's like, you know, I've smoked weed and then they're like, well, you done psychedelics? I was like, no. And they're like, I should do Aya.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You're good. Go big or go home, guess, right away, huh?
Burning Bear: Yeah, you know it. So when we showed up at Aya, ⁓ they weren't going to let us sit together and not. They didn't want to have us in the same room. You know we started getting all of this like sharing energies and all this other stuff and I was like wait a second. This doesn't make any sense to me as like I and obviously you know you're sitting there with like Iowa Scarrows and you're going against like you know all this tradition, but you're like.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You shouldn't.
Burning Bear: But this is my partner and we are on this journey together. I want to journey together like we our energies are shared in everything. You know, that's one of the things they said. It's like the last thing that you should do is have sex and it's like. Why? Well, because you're going to share the energies. It's like. That's the point. Like, isn't that happening every time that we have sex? Like, I thought that's what we're doing in this relationship. And so I took a ⁓ much different direction and all it did is make my relationship and my marriage beautiful. It turned it into something that I've never experienced like this before. And not perfect. Not perfect. We fight. whatever. Life is life, you know, but...
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": No one is. Yeah.
Burning Bear: It is the most committed grounded relationship that I've ever been in. And I attribute that to the journey that we've done, not with just with psychedelics, but with growth. And so I'd like you to, you know, I kind of shared mine, like share your experience and tell, tell me how that was for you.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, so I mean, you know, after the suicide attempt, you know, I was, you know, I was in the cuckoo bin, like I say, and I told Carrie, was like, something's got to change, you know, because I was, I was popping pills behind people's backs. ⁓ and I was taking whatever kind of mood stabilizer SSR they were putting me on to make me, you know, whole as they thought. Right. So Carrie did, and she found research and found ketamine. And so I started doing ketamine therapy. And as I started going through ketamine, right, the story started changing. My habits started changing. I stopped drinking. I stopped eating sugar. I started going to the gym. I started eating more healthy. And I was, I guess you'd say in terms outpacing Carrie, right? Like I was really healing and I would notice things that she was doing. I'm like, fuck, that's kind of gross, man. Like, why are you doing that? To where one point I was playing in the pool with our boys. She came outside after, after a work day. on her phone, goes to the fridge, opens a beer, cracks the beer, goes and sits down and just starts scrolling on her phone and drinking the beer. And I go over there and I swim up to her and I said, hey, you wanna put the fucking beer down in your phone and come play with your family? And then she kind of looked at me and she was pissed. And later on that night, we had a very strong conversation and she realized, she's like, you know what, like maybe I need to try some of this stuff. Maybe I've got some things that I need to dig into. And so same as you, right? Carrie started jumping in and she started doing her own work with psychedelics. And what we found out is, you know, not only did she have, you know, her childhood traumas and, you know, just traumas of life in general that she was holding onto, but all the trauma that I created for her, you know, with, with me being short and tempered and OCD to the max and just a not, not a nice human being, right? And we'd fight and we'd argue and we'd bicker and she'd have walls built up in the whole nine yards. And then I'd wonder why we weren't intimate, right? Well, I finally got to understand this stuff and the trauma and all the shit that I caused her. And I was like, ⁓ I'm so sorry. Like, let me repair that. So then from there, I started to have to like, you know, earn Carrie's trust. So I would take a little bit more off her plate and a little bit more off her plate and a little bit more to the point where she's like, okay, who is this guy? Like this guy is like getting shit done. I can trust him again. Like this is the thing. And so we did a lot of separate work for a long time until your point where you and your wife kind of jumped in and did the ayahuasca stuff, right? Just boom, we just did the thing. and I did a lot of separate work. And the reason a lot of people say in the psychedelic world, do that work separate is because you got to heal those childhood wounds and some of those other things before you can kind of come in and sit and do medicine together. And so our very first time of doing medicine together was an MDMA session with a therapist. And I sat there and I didn't, I didn't know to think about MD, man. Like I was, I was wait, waiting for hallucinations and all this other stuff. was not very coached well to me of what this medicine was going to do. And, you know, I just had this weird nudge internally of like, Hey, just go up to Carrie and like, just tell her it's okay. And it's her turn and she needs to have this time. And so I did that and I walked over to her and she was just crying and letting stuff go. And I said, Hey, I'll be outside when you're ready, come get me, but you need to do the work. That's your time. And man, after she was doing the body scans and running through what she needed to run through for about an hour and a half, two hours, she came outside and I would say for the first time in our marriage, we looked at each other and she just looked at me and she was, see you. She was like, get it. And I'm sorry too. Cause she realized like she was creating triggers and doing things and behaviors that triggered me as a human being. And then that just would start the roller coaster. And yeah, to your point, I wouldn't even say we fight. You know, we might have some discussions that not even get heated. but just that we don't agree on, but we pause and I'll look at her and say, I just, I'm not going to have this conversation now. Like it doesn't feel aligned. Like let's both settle down. We'll have the conversation later. And then we have a deeper conversation about whatever that topic may be. And I can get her standpoint. She gets my standpoint. And then we don't even agree most of the time, but at least we have a middle ground of like, okay, I see where you're coming from. I can understand that. ⁓ And that's what MDMA has done for us, man. It's literally given us the window to say, You know, I'm sorry. And if I do these things, like call me on it. You know, like this past accident I had, I told Carrie just last week, was like, babe, I know I'm not right in the head because I was getting really, really short with the boys. Um, and I hit my head. I think it rewoke up all the other TBI issues that I had. And I was really quick with the boys and I was really snappy with her. But the fact is I knew I was doing these behaviors. I could communicate it to her and say, I'm sorry. just work with me. I've got these tension headaches. I have these migraines. I'm tired. I don't even want to get out of bed. You know, so she now knew like, okay, I can hold this space for him. I know he's not going to be here forever, but let me hold this space while he recovers. And so that's what these medicines has done for us. And that's why I say her and I make it part of our marriage contract. Now we literally will go sit and do MDMA once a quarter with each other just to reconnect. And it's To me, it's like my Christmas, because I get my wife with no boys yanking on her. I get my wife with no work. It's literally her and I for six hours, and we get to talk and go through all the life stuff that's happening here and now, and then saying, hey, all right, here's our plan of action after we get out of this session. We got the neuroplasticity window, so let's put some buffers in. Let's put some new skill sets in there so we can ride this roller coaster better together. But yeah, I mean that's that's kind of our story in the nutshell how we've used this stuff and same thing We say at least twice a year. We'll do heavy medicine sets whether it's 5mEO DMT whether it's ayahuasca whether it's psilocybin or hey, maybe we just need a ketamine, you know reboot, know, so we we kind of play it out But I'm a really really big fan of 5mEO DMT. I work really well with that medicine. I get a lot of downloads. I love it Same, I don't know if I'll ever touch Ibogaine, you know, maybe for the TBI issues I might, but for me, like I get so much from all these other medicines that I'm not gonna go take the cardiovascular risk that Ibogaine presents. And again, it's on a small level, but same thing. I use this stuff in reverence. I'm not just gonna go run to go do another Ayahuasca or another psilocybin just because I need another notch on the belt, you know?
Burning Bear: Yeah, I from a little bit I know and I'm not very educated with Ibogaine other than what has been presented at conferences and individuals that I have talked to. I understand why they're pushing Ibogaine because its effectiveness of ending the opioid crisis. I understand why it's getting attention, but I really don't like the fact that out of all of the psychedelics that's getting this attention, it happens to be the most dangerous one that I would not even consider doing myself.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah.
Burning Bear: ⁓ don't have a condition dangerous enough or destructive enough to consider taking the risk that is Ibogaine. I think anybody out there should know that, I, you know, I've worked primarily with psilocybin, cannabis, and ayahuasca. And I have not done 5-MeO, I have not done ⁓ MDMA, I've not done ketamine. So you have actually used a variety of modalities that I have not. But I also think this is what's important to the conversation. This is what's the difference between a medicine and becoming a psychonaut, right? People that come into this space that want to be psychonauts they want to get one they're gonna go to the medicine all the time all the time all the time and they don't care what it is it's like another new psychedelic another new thing another whatever okay that's fine but you know I use this as medicine to do work to do work and to your credit you are to your point that you made earlier I actually got injured a while back ⁓ we were moving
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yep. Exactly.
Burning Bear: And my son was aggravated and he was mad. I was aggravated and I was mad and we're moving this couch and I'm getting to put it into this ⁓ pod. And what I don't realize is, is we're walking super fast. We're all we're both frustrated. It's been a long day and I go to step up and the door to the opening for the door is lower than my head. And so what happens is he walks me and my head hits the back of this door. I face plant into the couch. I break my nose. I give myself a concussion like completely wipes me out. Right. And so, you know, and he's like, okay, I'm leaving. Yeah, I didn't take it very well. But I realized like, you know, this is where the education comes in. I knew in that moment, like as soon as I realized like, ⁓ I have a concussion.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": See you later, pops.
Burning Bear: Then that changed everything because it was like, okay, I need to give myself time to heal from the concussion. And then I went straight to the medicine. It was like, what do I need right now? I need to fix this brain injury that just occurred. And then, and so I started doing, I took some psilocybin, did a mic. did a, ⁓ I actually did like a five gram and then I did a weighted a week or so and then I did a good round of micro dosing and then I topped that off with another five grams at the end. But for that very reason, because that was medicine that I was using to repair an injury that I had just had because I understood that if I allow that injury to stay, I cannot trust my cognitive ability. And I don't want to be walking around not trusting myself. I need to know that my brain is functioning the way it's supposed to be functioning so that I can be the best version of me every day.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yep. Yeah. I mean, it's that's nail on the head. I mean, we literally kind of parallel, right? You had your accident with their mind was mine was I fell out of a apparatus right onto my back and my head about eight feet and you know, and same thing. And so same thing. I'm I'm I'm microdosing, right? I'm doing those things to repair the neurotransmitters. I got burnt off in that little crash that I had. And it is just that it is just that it's it's again, if you use it in the right set and setting. If you use it with reverence and you treat it with respect, I think it's the right way to go. It's like you said, you get these psychonauts or you get these people of, oh man, I'm sitting with my 20th ayahuasca retreat this year. I'm like, bro, that's a lot of medicine. What are you not healing? What are you not setting with? What integration are you not doing? What are you not fixing? Why do you gotta sit with this for 20 times in one year? I don't understand that. Again, same thing. That's why Carrie and I are very
Burning Bear: Yeah.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Because MDMA has a serotonin dump on it. That's not really great for the brain at times. And so same thing, if you're out there and you're abusing the MDMA and you're using it more than once a quarter, they say about every three to four months, right? Because everything's repaired, you can go back through the process. And there is. There's people that go to raves. There's people that go do the thing. And they're popping molly and doing all that kind of stuff. And they're not neuroprotectant in their brain. It's like, yeah, you're having fun. But what are you doing to your brain long term, too? So it has to come down, like you said, the education piece is so big for this, because each medicine is different. Each medicine is going to show you something completely different.
Burning Bear: ⁓ absolutely. And you know, and I think you just touched on something that ⁓ I'm actually glad I'm going to get a chance to mention. The difference between recreational use and ⁓ medicinal use. When you understand that these medicines are neuro generators, right? So neuroplasticity raises and you are creating new pathways in your brain. You have to understand that all of your behaviors, all of your habits, all everything are developed through pathways that you're reinforcing and creating your brain. When I develop a new activity, when I do something, my brain is going to generate a new pathway, a new highway to that activity. And then it's going to become something that I've learned, I've done, and I'm functioning. When you're doing psychedelics, everything is now creating new pathways. The neuroplasticity and the ability for this to generate new brain tissue and new brain cells is exponential. So when you're engaging in bad activity, When you're doing something that isn't beneficial to you, when you're doing this recreationally, you're opening the door for new pathways to form that you don't want to form. You're now taking something that could be really good for you, and now you're giving it the power to be exponentially bad for you, which is where the responsibility of the medicine comes in. Why do you think we set intentions? Because I need to know that my brain is on the same page as me. I need to know that subconsciously I'm moving in this right direction because I don't want those negative thoughts to occur, right? And I had a journey a while back, a big journey, and in the middle of the journey, it started to go sideways on me a little bit. And then I recognized when it was happening, I was like, ⁓ no, stop. I don't want to reinforce this in my space right now. And it was the recognition of how bad that could be for me. And then it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, stop. I am in charge of this. I create and generate my thoughts. And as the generator of my own thoughts, I say no. And we're going to go over here and go work on this other stuff that's a lot more productive than going down whatever rabbit hole that was that just opened up.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's surrendering with the medicine, be honest, surrendering.
Burning Bear: But mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, trying to get to like that space of. ⁓ you know, responsibility. And I think that that's what it comes down to is, you know, the medicine has to have responsible use and whether it be not sticking yourself into a fire or, you know, ⁓ keys and going for a drive. Like, there are certain things that you need to be aware of. Like, there's responsibility that comes with it. It isn't just, you know, it is a little bit different than Tylenol. ⁓ But ⁓ in a lot of ways, it is not. It's actually a lot safer than Tylenol, which is kind of crazy. But you do have to have that certain level of responsibility. ⁓ You said something earlier that really stood out to me. My experience with my wife is completely different. I'm it's our roles are reversed. My wife is actually ahead of me and almost everything and sometimes like embarrassingly ahead of me. Like, you know, there's a few things where she might be like a year or two ahead of me in certain spaces. ⁓ So I've had the opportunity to like learn from her. Like she has been a huge like guide for me watching her learn through her experience. But I agree with what you said. We do a lot of work on our own. I would say the majority of the work is like we're just committed to working on ourselves and then committed to each other to allow that work to happen.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah.
Burning Bear: You know, very seldom are we like working together on any one thing. But the only times those are usually like if I'm holding space for her or she's holding space for me. But if we're both going in a journey, we're pretty much doing our own thing and we're working through whatever it is that we need to work through. And then we come together at the end and kind of work that out. So ⁓ I think it's fantastic that you guys have been able to do that in your relationship. ⁓ you know, you You described it earlier, you said it's benefited your relationship. Where do you think your relationship would be today without it?
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": ⁓ tenfold. We wouldn't be together. Hands down, we wouldn't be together. We just didn't have, we didn't have the vocabulary, right? We didn't have the emotional intelligence, neither one of us, to even have a hard conversation, right? I mean, you know how that goes. I mean, you're married. It's every American couple, if not world couple, that I've talked to, right? Again, we're in this day-to-day grind when you got kids and you're moving 100 miles an hour and you're doing the thing and she's doing the thing. You eventually kind of start doing this, right? And then you build up the resentment walls. Why? Because as men, we need intimacy, and that's how we connect with our wives. But if the wife is pissed off and you're not doing the XY thing for her that she needs to get done, well then guess what? Now there's resentment on both sides, and now there's a F you in the hallway and kick rocks. I love you, but you know, the whole thing. And then those just turn into a big snowball that goes down a hill that never recovers, you know? And that's where we're at. But once we started doing and going down this journey of psychedelics and we just look at each other now and I look at her and we can look at each other and kind of wink, you know, and if we're in a different area and go, oh man, look at these fucking people. Like, oh man, let's, let's say the kids are calling. We get, we get to get the hell out of dodge, you know? But yeah, I mean, hands down, if, if Carrie and I didn't go down this rabbit hole, I, 100 % I know for a fact we'd be divorced because me, I just, I didn't have. the ability to have tough conversations. I just didn't. You know, I was a stuffer. I stuffed and stuffed and stuffed until the sock on the floor made me rip my top off and then I'd blow, right? And then that cycle would just repeat itself. Toward now, like I said, you know, I had this accident. I looked at Carrie. I knew personally I was short. I knew personally I wasn't the human being I wanted to be. And I was able to like... tell her that like, I'm sorry, but I just need you to hold the space for me now until I can get through this stuff because I'm I'm a wreck. My body hurts. My brain's all jacked up. Like just hold the space for me, please. And she knew it and she knew what I needed. You know, now that I'm, you know, coming on the other side of this, now we're having conversations and how can I get better at this? And so, yeah, it's again, I'm a walking billboard for this stuff. I walk into every married couple and I tell them all the time, hey, man, like this is a game changer. But like you said, earlier, if there is somebody in that relationship that is a complete no for psychedelics and not interested, I literally tell that other individual that's interested in the psychedelics, hey man, here's what's going to happen because I've already seen it. You're going to start leveling up. You're going to start looking at life differently. That individual is going to be sitting here because they haven't made any changes in their life. You're going to outgrow them exponentially. And eventually you're going to look back and go, I love you, but I'm not dealing with this bullshit anymore. I'm not doing this thing anymore. And then what does it do? It turns into a divorce because they didn't grow together. So I'm with you on it. I think as couples, if you're going to stay together and you're going to do this work, you both got to do the work. Because if it's one sided, eventually it turns into a divorce because you just outgrow each other exponentially.
Burning Bear: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I have felt and so I have a loaded question for you because I know my answer to this question. I'm actually kind of curious. So as you started to grow with your wife, you had made a mention earlier that you realize that your behaviors were contributing to outcomes that you weren't wanting to experience, that you were getting returned from your wife. I'm just kind of curious. And I'm going through this learning journey myself. You I'd like to consider myself maybe about midway through it. feel like I have a long way still to go because there's a lot of social programming. There's a lot of socially accepted behaviors out there. There's a lot of bad narratives for how relationships should be the man woman dynamic ⁓ that are creating a lot of the problems that people are dealing with and without being able to see those it's really difficult to create change. So in that space this is where my question comes in. What have you changed or what did you know
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah. Yeah.
Burning Bear: about your behaviors that you needed to start changing and how was that received and what type of changes did that make in your relationship?
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, mean, a myriad of changes, right? I mean, one, I just started going to the gym and taking better care of myself. And as that even kind of like reared its head, then that started giving me more confidence to level up and look at things in a different manner. I'm not so much short tempered like I used to be. I walk around like I was ready to punch someone in the throat. You know, I just carried really heavy, I don't want to say dark energy, but I was just, I was not a good person. You know, I was mad all the time. I was upset. And again, if you realize, and I go back through it, like I realized I created that that character through some of the hazing and childhood bullies and everything else that I carried on. And so I just figured, you know, I can be an asshole. I'll keep people at bay, you know? And that was the same for Carrie. Like, you know, I almost screwed that relationship up too in the very beginning because it's cheating on her, you know, because for me it was Carrie was calm. She was the calm in the storm and I thrived in chaos. You know, so it's, changing all the things from my behavior to how I react to things, to how I parent or how I be, how my husband, how I treat other individuals. mean, it's everything. mean, I, I don't have a very big circle, you know, to where before I had the biggest circle. I had all these friends and all these guys that I would go hang out and do the thing with. But the thing was, it's a Saturday and let's go golf at eight and let's get hammered. And then after we get hammered, let's go to a bar and keep drinking. before you realize it, I've left my wife at home with two little boys for 12 hours while I'm out there getting drunk and flirting with girls and doing dumb shit. you start realizing like. the window of opportunity to be a really strong father or a really strong husband, that window is doing this. And it's getting closer and it's closing and it's closing and closing. And then before, know, my boys are 18, I have no relationship with them. Why? Because I thought going out and drinking and being an asshole was, the better decision. But now I've realized like, that's not what I want to do. That's not how I want to live my life. So I've made a ton of changes. I mean, everything too. I, I might have a glass of whiskey once a year, right? And it might be at a birthday or a really nice steak dinner that Carrie and I go to. Other than that, I don't do that. Same, sweets doesn't go. So it's it's changing everything in your lifestyle to be a better human being. I know it's kind of a vague, bigger answer, but yeah, everything's gotta change in order for you to move forward.
Burning Bear: No, I love it. No, I love it. And that was a ⁓ much broader answer than what I was intending from the question. But ⁓ you know, it was good because you highlighted the truth that a lot of these areas change. know, I think for myself, what I had noticed was the bullshit that I was giving, I was receiving. You know, when I didn't get the intimacy I wanted, you know, I realized, and I think some things that are hard for a lot of people, and you talked about this, like one, We adopt the narratives of the abuse that we get in our life from all sources. It doesn't have to just be hazing or bullying it. You know, I mentioned this in one of my videos earlier. It's like I had this girl, this young, like 12 year old girl make a statement to me, a really offhand statement to me when I was at about the same age, 13. I think I healed or recovered from that like a year ago. Like it like destroyed my life and she wasn't even being mean. She was just like, offhand statement but what happened is is I I took that statement and I created that narrative in my head and I started attacking myself like what she did lasted a few seconds what I did lasted another 40 years and I couldn't let that go and so you know as I created these narratives I created these self punishments inside then it comes down to like projection and all this other stuff
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": I'll go and do it. Yeah, dude. Yep.
Burning Bear: But in my relationship, I realized that like, you know, and at least for me, and I don't, I'm not going to speak to all men out there. know the men come from varying different degrees and, but I was not a supportive husband. was a child. I was like living with a grown child. was another, I was another thing that my wife had to take care of. She knew where my shit was at. She helped me fill out stuff. She made sure my laundry was done. She cleaned the house. She did. She was doing all of this stuff in life. And then, you know, in me, I'm following these social narratives. I'm thinking, well, you know, I have two emotions. I'm here and I'm angry. That's it. Like I don't have any other emotions, nothing else I'm processing or dealing with. Like that's it. I'm angry or everything's fine. And I'm the life of the party. And
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Burning Bear: You know, and I was adding so much stress. know, my wife kept saying the same thing to me over and over again. She goes, I want a partner. I want a partner. You said you would be my partner. She's like, when are you going to show up and be my partner? And I couldn't understand that for the longest time. What do you mean? Man, I help with the kids and I help with the house and every now and then I do dishes and like, you know, like I was, I didn't.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah.
Burning Bear: really understand how much I was just shitting on my wife and putting on her plate. And then I was realizing later, it's like, well, no wonder nobody wants to be intimate. Why would you be one to be intimate with your child?
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Exactly. Yep.
Burning Bear: I you know that you know that that's not something that you should know so it's like all I know and I realize that my lack of intimacy was coming from all of the stuff that I wasn't doing and it's like ⁓ I started doing my laundry I I learned how to start cleaning I learned how to start doing some of these little chores and ⁓ I started making my own decision I don't know self-regulating my own emotional space and and not shitting on my partner and then also showing up for them and it's like you know big changes that made
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Exactly.
Burning Bear: my life because I didn't realize how selfish I was like my world revolved around me and only me I didn't see anything else and it's like if I did something nice for somebody else it was because I wanted something
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Thanks.
Burning Bear: I was doing that because I wanted the feeling for that or I did that or I'm doing this, you know, it's I was doing this for my wife because like I wanted the reward, right? It wasn't because I was just doing it. And then the one of the biggest things to change for me is, know, ⁓ she was actually her suggestion, so I can't even take credit for it. She's like, you know what I do when I wake up every day? She's like the first thing that I think of is what can I do for my family today? What can I do for you today? What is one or two things that I could do for you to help your day? What can I do for my kids? So, you know what what what can I do for the people around me to make their life just a little bit better? And when I first heard that I thought Okay, sure. And then I started to do it. And then I was like, ⁓ shit, this is this is a big change. Like, Whoa, like, you mean other people have needs too, and I should help fulfill those like, and looking at it now, it sounds kind of sarcastic. But it's it's it really, I'm still blown away by how blind I was to it. Like how my wife used to say that she'd get so mad at me and she goes, How do you not know?
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": different.
Burning Bear: and she thought I was lying, but I was so programmed, so programmed that I was not seeing this in that way at all. So yeah, so I asked that question because that was my experience. Like I realized that like my shit's my shit, man.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, I mean. Yeah, mean, it's really similar. again, that's again, it. Relationship and we're both very open about it because guess what our stories you and I's are very goddamn similar There might be some different variables here and there but at the end of the day, it's almost Early similar, you know, I was the same way I was checked out I I thought showing up and scrolling on my phone and sitting on the couch was being a dad You know, no a dad is being Engage with my boys and giving them the emotional intelligence they need when they need it, you know to the point like my littlest guy He'll have breakdowns complete and utter breakdowns. What do I do? I hold him now I Go into his room. I sat with him. I just let him have it Go ahead, dude. You want to cry you want to scream get it out? You have to release that bud release it and I'm here to hold that space for you You know as opposed to the old programming of shut up or I'm gonna give you something to cry about, you know, okay, cool So now you're telling that little human being that it's not okay to release these emotions. And so what do they do? They bury those emotions and then it just is going to repeat the fuck and cycle. You know, so for me, same, you know, I was checked out, man. I was, Hey, I'm going to do something for you, but there better be some reciprocation on it. I better get something back or I better get a cool feeling from it to where now, dude, I can't tell you how big my karma cup is and how overfilled it is, but It's not cashed in yet. mean, the things that I do, I mean, just last week, I mean, I'm going through it, right? Like I'm in the storm right now. ⁓ and I still took the time and sat with six different veterans and first responders last week for at least an hour or not more on some of these lunches and coffees that I had. And every single one of them, I got into a ketamine retreat or ketamine clinic or got them into a retreat that they were looking at. and ended up getting a couple of them scholarships and grants so they could go sit with medicine someplace. So for me, that's what it's about. And I didn't do that because, ⁓ cool, they're going to buy a t-shirt or cool. Maybe they'll write me a cool, hey, Chad was a great guy. said, no, I did it because I hurt for over 20 plus years. I was an asshole. I drank too much. I fought too much. And I look at it from, if I can help you now, shave off some of those years of carrying on this bullshit for the next 10 years. Let's do it now, man. Let me help you now. So that's the wins for me now. All the other stuff's gonna come. The money will come when it's supposed to come. All the accolades, all the attaboys, all that, it'll come. It'll be here. I just gotta keep showing up and doing the work, you know?
Burning Bear: Yeah, man, you said that so beautifully, I resonate with everything that you just said. And I think the reason why we all have relatively the same experience is because, you know, at least the way that I see this, we're all born okay. We're all born these human beings or they're here to experience the world. And we're all a bunch of little kids. Internally, shave off all the years, get rid of your picture. You're a little kid still. That's who you are, right? I'm walking through life.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Appreciate it. That's it. That's it. Yes.
Burning Bear: I'm nine, like internally. I'm still looking at the world with amazement and wonder, But what the world doesn't teach you is they don't teach you how to grow up to be a happy, healthy human. They teach you how to grow up to be a productive member of society.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, dude. and that's it.
Burning Bear: And that's the matrix. And it's like, then you subscribe to all of these things and then you forget that like, ⁓ by the way, I'm supposed to still be taking care of me and my family and the people that are around me, you know? And so, yeah, that made huge impacts in my life and changed so much for me. So I will tell you what, though, I do when we're done with this, I'm going to reach out to you. I want you to hook me up with who you're doing the MDMA through. I've been wanting to do that for
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": you Yeah, dude.
Burning Bear: while with my wife and so if you guys have a space I definitely think I'm gonna to utilize that and ⁓
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, easy conversation to be had, man. That's super easy. And what I'll tell you too is even if you're open to it, I've got facilitators, know, but I'm sure you know some of it. Man, be open to doing like a real true protocol with 5Meo DMT. You want to talk about something that'll raise, I mean, it's the most powerful psychedelic out there. Ibogaine, all that other stuff. Cool. 5Meo DMT hands down is the most powerful psychedelic on the planet.
Burning Bear: Okay.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": researchers, scientists, psychoanalysts, I'll tell ya. Five is the way to go. And it has. Man, the time, no. Full on journeys, full on journeys. Yeah, and I can share you that protocol and all that kind of stuff later, but I'm a huge fan of it, dude. Huge fan of it. And I'll explain more of that to ya, you know, probably off air. But.
Burning Bear: Are you microdosing that? Are you doing full on journeys? OK. Well. I think that'd be, you know, the one thing I've noticed going through this podcast. I'd love to have you as a guest regularly because I think that, ⁓ you know, this, this video for our guests is just a general introduction. This is like who Chad is, who mental Joe is, this is what we do. But I think we've discovered as we're coming through this, that we have so many topics. We could shoot an entire episode on just therapy and couples and, maybe even just one thing there, right? The, the, because there are so many different
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah. Yeah, buddy. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Burning Bear: levels. And so I would want to, I'd like to extend this offer to become a regular guest on the show. And, you know, we can, yeah, we can communicate and do what we do. And so we can start talking about some of these other plant medicines, because I believe that the majority of this audience that I'm going to develop is going to have little to no information. And they're looking for something that's different. They're looking for something that's a little bit different than what they're seeing everywhere else. And, you know, I want to be able to provide that
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Yeah, dude, say less. Yes.
Burning Bear: here and hopefully Dr. Siegel is gonna come on the show. I sent him a shout out and I said, hey, you need to come on the show. So I'm gonna pressure him through the show, be like, hey, you should you you've been invited. So if you say no, there's at least 13 people that are gonna be mad at you. ⁓
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": There we go. Let's, Dr. Siegel, let's go. Come on, buddy. Hehehehehe
Burning Bear: ⁓ man, I'll tell you what dude, I've had a blast today. ⁓ I really appreciate you taking the time to join it. And again, man, I love what you do over there at Mental Joe. I love that you've been able to do this with your wife and that you've been able to make the impact and the change that you have with your family. And I also really appreciate everything that you're doing for veterans and really putting yourself out there the way that you have. Because I do think...
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": Likewise, likewise, I appreciate it. Thanks buddy.
Burning Bear: That's how this all works. We've got ourself into this thing, and I shot a video a while back called Micro Impact. It really is, that's how this works. It isn't about one guru. It isn't one person getting on stage in front of 30,000 people. It's individuals like you and I and every other person that has went through this making sure that we touch people that are around us that are in our lives and that we can help them get on the same space so that they can do that with others. And then if we do that, it exponentially grows. And it's more than any one person could ever do on their own. ⁓ so may
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": That's it.
Burning Bear: I appreciate what you're doing. So before we jump off, why don't you take a few minutes? Why don't you plug yourself tell people how to find you where to find your apparel what they should look for anything that you want them to know news updates and then ⁓ we'll kick this thing to the road
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You got it. Sounds good, brother. Appreciate it. Yeah, so everyone that's out there, mentaljo.com, super easy, mentaljo.com. If you're on the old socials, we're mentaljoapparel. ⁓ Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all that stuff. We're still trying to work on all those platforms. I don't get it. I don't understand them. ⁓ But we, I say we, because Carrie is part of it as well, we're on a documentary that should be coming out hopefully by the end of the year, and it should be on Amazon and Apple. It's called The Journey Home, and it's about ketamine therapy. kind of our journey and how we've used these medicines to get to where we are today. So go buy a shirt, come support us, come check us out, mentaljo.com. And I appreciate it, Mr. Anthony.
Burning Bear: ⁓ awesome, man. Well, thank you again. Thank you very much. I'm sure we're going to put together some really awesome stuff in the future and, you know, maybe some medicine facilitation. You know, we should find our way to Peru together is what we need to do. Grab a group of people and like head out to Peru, spend a couple of weeks down there. I know a guy in Mexico that knows some people, so we should ⁓ we should look into that. But and I'm sure you've got a great network, too. So all right, brother. Well, I'm to go ahead and sign this one off. I appreciate you taking
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": There we go. I'm down, dude. I'm down.
Burning Bear: the time to be with us. appreciate everybody out there who is taking the time to listen to this conversation. Make sure that you go ahead and comment on the videos. I'll read your comments. I'm looking forward to engaging with you guys. know, send send emails, send show suggestions. Let's talk about this. Let's open up the conversation a little bit more. But for this episode, the Burning Bear is out.
Chad - AKA "Mental Joe": You got it.