Modern Ammo: Misconceptions, Challenges, & Expertise

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Welcome to another episode of Built to Last with Brown Ells.
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Today's guest is Gavin Geer, founder of Ultimate Reloader, one of the most recognized ammunition and reloading education platforms in the firearms industry.
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He's based in Washington State, and Gavin has spent years testing presses, powders, bullets, brass, and precision loading techniques across thousands of rounds and countless rifle builds.
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Through Ultimate Reloader's YouTube channel, website, and hands-on testing projects, he has become a trusted voice for both beginner and advanced reloaders looking for practical information backed by data instead of internet rumor.
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Gavin has collaborated with major manufacturers across the ammunition and reloading space while helping educate a new education of reloaders entering the hobby during one of the most volatile component markets in modern history.
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Today we're talking about the state of reloading, component availability, modern cartridge development, precision loading details, and what the future of ammunition could look like.
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Gavin, welcome to Built to Last with Brownells with uh Steve and Tim.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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This is gonna be fun.
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So, for those of you, I I'm assuming most of our listeners know who you are, know what you do.
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Um, but for those of our listeners who might not be as familiar with Gavin um with you or the ultimate reloader, how would you sum yourself up in like uh a quick like elevator speech?
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Well, I'm an engineer, I'm a mechanical engineer that loves to learn.
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And as we'll talk about, you know, that's how I got into all of this.
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Uh, but I also really enjoy uh they breaking down complex topics in understandable ways for people, uh, trying new things.
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Uh I'm definitely a big gear head, so my last name gear definitely fits quite a bit.
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And uh I just love to share.
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So, what pulled you into reloading uh at the beginning?
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Well, I was in the market for a sidearm for hiking.
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I decided on a 44 Magnum.
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I started going to an indoor range weekly.
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That was when I lived in the city, and I very quickly realized that my shooting was outpacing my budget.
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So it was an entirely practical consideration.
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How can I shoot a couple boxes of 44 mag a week at the range with friends?
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And I started off with a very modest budget.
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I had a Lee Pro 1000 press, three station.
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I went straight to the progressive.
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Uh, I used Lemon Pledge for case loop, stole that from my wife.
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And so I really did achieve savings initially, that is, with with reloading.
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And that led to the obsession.
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So it sounds like you are in bear country.
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If you're taking a 44 mag along when you're hiking, is that correct?
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And now, now that we've moved out to the country, uh, we see bears all the time.
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And I have I have stumbled across a mother with her cups before in the dark.
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This was all silhouettes that I saw.
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Uh and and I uh even with a sidearm turned around and thought, I don't, I don't need to get into this.
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So it's it's a very real and practical thing.
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How did Ultimate Reloader evolve into such a trusted industry resource then?
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Was that kind of an accident or do you plan on that to happen eventually?
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It was completely an accident.
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And specifically what happened was that first Lee Pro 1000 press uh I soon outgrew its capabilities.
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Uh, in terms of the quality, in terms of wanting more stations to separate the processes and enhance the adjustability, I decided I wanted a five-station press.
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And at the time on YouTube, there was very little information.
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Uh, someone had put together kind of a white paper comparing, I think it was the Lee Load Master, the Dillon XL650, and the Hornity Lock and Load AP.
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I read that, I still had questions, I deliberated.
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If anyone's bought a camera system with chain interchangeable lenses, they know how much analysis paralysis you can get into.
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And and progressive presses are just like that because you're buying into a system.
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Uh, it's hard to visually understand what's going on until you get into it.
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And um, I decided on the Hornady Lock and Load AP, started to post videos to help other people.
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Again, this is in 2007.
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So we're talking about the the early days of YouTube.
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It had been around for a year or two at this time.
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Wow.
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And I shared some some engineering feedback with Hornady.
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They were receptive.
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They sent me a couple t-shirts and a case feeder, and I thought, nice.
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Well, this is fun.
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Like, you know, I'm providing value to people out there.
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Um, I'm engaging with the industry, I'm a mechanical engineer, so they they appreciated the feedback.
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And then I decided I would film every single five-station reloading press.
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So that at the time was the uh RCBS Pro 2000, the Dylan XL650, the Hornity Lock and Load AP, the lead load, the Lee Loadmaster.
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So that kind of I thought if someone is in this quandary, they want to buy a system, I'm going to provide them videos with everything.
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And then I started working with each of those companies and and then did an AR-15 project building a rifle.
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Then I decided they wanted to chamber my own rifles.
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And and here we are now where you know I'm building the ammo, I'm building the rifles, and then we're shooting out to a mile.
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We were just doing two one mile shoots, one with 300 Norma Mag and one with uh 375 ShiTac yesterday on our own property.
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So it's been it's been quite a journey, and I absolutely love being able to fiddle with the dials and the knobs on everything.
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Love the manual machining, love loading ammo, experimenting with new components and powders and everything.
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So I'm just having a blast and and people respond well because I'm I'm answering a lot of their questions around which products to buy and which cartridges perform well.
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And it's all it's all data driven.
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So that that is literally my mission in life is supply people with with great data so that they can mean it, make informed choices.
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That's one thing I really enjoyed about reading about how ultimate reloading got its start is you were just curious on like how this all worked, and nobody else had anything out there that showed the difference between the the different manufacturers, and you're like, I'll I'll do it.
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And it just kind of blew up.
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That's awesome.
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Yeah, and it was very modest at the beginning.
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I remember uh a tape-based uh mini DV camera, I think it was less than HD, it was S D 360p or whatever it was at the time.
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I had a headlamp strapped on my head, looking down into the case feedbowl, up on a stepladder.
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I mean, it was low-tech, but but it did provide information and and it's just been a process of kind of in like I'm sure you guys at Brown Ells have done every year.
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Well, what new technology can we use to make great videos and and and do great audio and and be more of a professional?
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So I I kind of accidentally became a video pro, I guess.
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So let's pivot into the reloading part of it.
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What misconceptions do newer reloaders still have today that you kind of encountered at the beginning?
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I think the biggest thing is that it's too hard to do.
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I think people feel like this is overwhelming.
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This might not be safe.
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Uh, I can't do this.
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And and really, it's all about taking it one step at a time, making sure you have good data.
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You know, maybe you can find a friend or a channel like mine to help you through the process.
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And and in the end, you really can do it.
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They get a little caught up in, I need to know all these details and all these different specs for every ammunition that's out there, kind of thing.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, it's the same thing in the in the rifle building world.
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I've talked to machinists that would say, Oh, you know, chambering a rifle, maybe that's too too complicated or something.
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And it's really not.
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You just have to pay attention to what you're doing and and make sure that you're not making any big mistakes that could cause a safety issue.
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Yeah, because I I would assume making mistakes like if you are doing a drawing, hey, no big deal, you just erase it, you know, start over, you're you're fine.
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You make a mistake in loading, you know, uh ammunition a little too hot, not using the right components, and now you have uh an explosion happening just inches away from your face.
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Yeah, and and Steve, I'd I'd love to get your input on this.
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You know, some topics and and scenarios are more sensitive than others.
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I'll use reloading 45 ACP as an example.
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Your bullet seating depth, even 10, 20, thousandths of an inch, can have a huge impact on pressure.
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Oh, sure.
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And, you know, that's a that's a safety concern, and it's an easy mistake to make.
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And and and that's maybe the exception rather than the rule.
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But what what's your take on that, Steve?
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Well, that's absolutely true.
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Uh even uh getting the bullet driven into the case because of a faulty feed ramp or something can happen and you won't even be aware of it.
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It doesn't even have to be your fault.
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You could almost be you could be using factory ammo and not if you don't catch it, then I mean I don't know this from personal experience or anything, but I've had some hot loads go off when they weren't crimped properly.
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Yeah, like revolvers and recoil, uh driving the bullets out towards the forcing cone, another similar scenario.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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Binding up your cylinder.
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Yep.
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Yeah, exactly.
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How much bad information still circulates online regarding ammunition and reloading?
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Has it been pretty well, pretty much vetted, or do you really have to be careful with your sources still?
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I think when it comes to things like load data, most of it is good.
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And so, you know, you have to you have to really cross-check.
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I'll give you an example.
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Yesterday I was loading six by 47, which is essentially a wildcat.
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You take a 65 by 47, you nick it down.
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And as a consequence, there's not a lot of data.
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And I'm testing a new bullet that's heavier than most six millimeters.
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And so I found some anecdotal information.
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And what I had to do is cross-check it with whatever information I had on hand.
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So I looked at 6 GT and I looked at 65 by 47, and I had to make an educated decision, you know.
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So for the most part, you can go out and buy a reloading manual or go to something like Hodgson's website to get the data, and they'll have a bullet seating depth, and they'll have a powder to use and a charge weight and a primer, all of that.
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And so if you follow the formulas, there's enough factor of safety built into modern handguns and rifles where you don't really have to worry.
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But if you get off the beaten path, you just have to you have to be a little bit more careful.
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Is your uh perspective like you take baby steps in that kind of uh scenario, just trying small changes at a time or instead of just jumping right in?
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Yeah, the general rule is to start at 90% of max or at the published starting load, and then to just generally work up.
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And you in this day and age, no excuse not to use a chronograph.
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So you're looking at velocity, what am I getting compared to what they published?
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And then you're inspecting the case, looking for any kind of signs of pressure, like a case head swipe or a flattened primer, those sorts of things.
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And uh, you know, the sometimes if it's a complete unknown, you risk either being too fast and over pressure, or maybe sticking a bullet in the bore.
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Those are both possibilities.
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Uh, I've encountered both of those.
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Sometimes, sometimes on purpose.
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We recently blew up an AR-15 that was a six-arc.
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We pushed the projectile to 4,730 feet per second, which is the the bullet blew up, the rifle blew up, and and we did it as an experiment.
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But what we saw ahead of that, we basically made the six arc into a belted magnum.
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If you inspected the case, where where the the bolt is, uh it's a little oversized, and the case actually was a little plastic there.
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And so usually you will get warning signs, and usually if you follow the basic rules, you're just fine.
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Nice.
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That's what they used to do back in the old days.
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P.O.
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Ackley and guys like that would go to destruction on different cartridges and different uh platforms.
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So then you know where your your top end is.
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They wanted to know where an O3 Springfield would blow up or uh, you know, any other kind of gun.
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It was uh Yeah, like like proofloads.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Steady diet of those will set you back.
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That's for sure.
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Yeah.
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What separates knowledgeable reloaders from people just copying the like internet recipes?
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I think it's education and data-driven analysis at the end of the day.
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So I like to get as much information as possible.
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And then, you know, everybody has to make their own conclusions, is kind of what I feel like, you know, with precision rifle reloading, people will talk about uniforming flash holes, cleaning primer pockets, they'll talk about you know, uh neck turning, they'll talk about all these things that that may or may not be an issue.
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And sometimes, you know, this this world of precision rifle is still one rifle prefers this, another rifle prefers that, and no one really knows why.
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So, you know, educating, observing, documenting, and and ultimately finding what works for you uh is is gonna be the thing, and and to not make assumptions about other people.
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I guess maybe that's uh uh more to your question.
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Okay.
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Uh let's talk about components.
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Uh, especially I've heard a lot of talk around uh getting powder.
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Uh, people are kind of freaking out about getting pro powder or primers.
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Um, how do you manage getting consistent powder or a consistent supply of powder or primers?
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Yeah, I I kind of have an in with some of the retailers and the manufacturers, so I guess that's kind of cheating.
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Um we just wanted to hear you say it out loud.
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I know, I know.
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Uh I I think the current state of affairs is better from a supply standpoint than it has been like during COVID or after Sandy Hook.
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Okay.
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But prices are not super good right now.
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So that I think is probably the biggest challenge.
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You could probably buy powder primers, but you might not like the prices.
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For instance, when I started reloading a an eight-pound canister of H4350 was probably$80 or$90, and now it's$600.
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Oh my gosh.
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So that that hits people hard, especially people that are in a modest budget, which typically comprised a good percentage of the reloading community, the people that might have cast lead bullets and used low charge weights, and you know, they could enjoy shooting all day, recycling lead or getting old wheel balancing weights or something like that.
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That's a little bit harder when it when a big canister of powder is 600 bucks, you know.
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Right.
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Are there any challenges uh that the modern reloader is facing with kind of the current geopolitical climate right now?
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Or is it mainly just the the pricing part that's the keeping people away?
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I think our our wars right now, specifically like the Ukraine war, over looking over the last few years, have affected certain products, uh like shell casings from certain manufacturers in in Europe, that kind of thing.
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Um, but I I do think the main the main problem is price and perhaps driven by the war consumption.
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Okay.
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I'm not totally sure on that.
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You get you're competing with governments and countries for the same commodities.
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Yeah, and it's it's easy to see why war war supply gets prioritized because it's kind of a do-or-die thing, right?
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For some countries, yeah.
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Uh what opportunities exist for reloaders if they're willing to adapt a little bit?
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I think the biggest thing is to think ahead, like it always has been, you know, to look for deals and potentially uh quality over quantity.
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Okay.
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I think this is where if you're a hunter and you're a reloader, you're probably in a better position because you know, I'm going to Africa, I might need 50 rounds.
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Whereas if I'm going to uh and that might be a two-week trick, right?
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Right.
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I'm going to PRS match, I need 200 rounds for one weekend.
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Right.
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There's a big difference there.
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So, you know, the the cost equation is going to hit some people a lot harder than others.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah.
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When you can substitute components, what mistakes do you need to be careful of uh staying away from or not making?
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Yeah, I think when it comes to bullets, solid copper projectiles handle pressure differently compared to cup and core projectiles.
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So cup and core would be a copper jacket with uh a lead core inside.
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There are certain considerations around your rifle's chamber.
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There are considerations around how far the bullet travels before it engages the rifling.
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Okay.
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Uh in terms of the pressure curve, because the copper bullets uh conform less readily to the rifling, you know, compared to cup and core bullets that are softer, I guess you could think of it that way.
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So if you're gonna substitute a copper bullet for in place of uh a lead cup and core bullet, the the copper bullet's gonna be longer and that's gonna eat up your case capacity, and then the pressure characteristics are gonna be different.
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So you might want to look at low data that's specific for that projectile.
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Okay.
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When it comes to powders, you can't assume that just because two powders are adjacent to each other on the burn rate chart, in other words, inside the rifle's uh chamber, they're gonna burn with similar characteristics, pressure, velocity, that they're gonna perform equivalently.
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There are things like the temperature sensitivity of the powder to consider for unknown reasons.
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Sometimes one powder produces much more accurate ammunition than others, and so it still becomes uh the specific load data situation.
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You have to be very careful uh to not just directly substitute load data and experimentation, right, is key to find the combination of components and the load data that that your specific firearm likes the best.
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Okay, yeah, and not all those uh burn charts agree with each other all the time.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:44.960
Right.
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:55.119
Some sometimes uh powders will change positions relative to each other, depending on who put it out, what cartridge they tested it in, and and so you know, so on.
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:56.240
So many variables.
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.759
It's not uh an exact one-to-one type of thing.
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:00.480
Right.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:01.839
It it doesn't work that way.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:09.599
And you'll hear guys talk about one lot of a powder was faster than another lot, or one was consistent and another one wasn't.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.759
So it's truly tons of variables that you're dealing with.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.599
Like wine vintages.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:16.799
Yes.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:18.480
Exactly.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:26.319
Yeah, and I I got some some questions around lots and uh tracking those and how important that is, and in just a little bit we'll talk about that.
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:33.440
Um, but before I get there, I'd really like to get your perspective on the whole caseless ammo discussion.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.039
Is that ever going to come back or is it making it a comeback now?
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:43.759
You know, I don't have a lot of data on that, but it doesn't seem practical to me.
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:53.920
Um, I've read about certain caseless cartridges, and it's fascinating, but it just doesn't seem it doesn't seem like uh a scenario that could pan out in the same way.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:20:00.799
It's just not gonna grab or get legs and and take off like everybody's kind of talking it up like it will.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:01.920
Yeah, I don't know.
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.839
Like have you guys been hearing much about caseless?
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:07.599
Because I I'm not seeing it a whole lot.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.480
No, I think HK has pretty much abandoned that.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:11.279
Oh, did they?
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:11.680
Okay.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:12.160
Yeah.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:17.599
Every once in a while somebody will develop something, it'll it'll peak for a few years, it'll trend, you know.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:18.160
Right.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.960
And then uh, but if HK couldn't make it work uh viably, nobody can.
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:24.160
That's fair.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.200
So I think what we've got is muzzle loader, right?
00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:36.079
And I I just made my first foray with a CVA endura, which is a really interesting firearm.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:39.519
It's it's more like a B14 center fire rifle.
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:46.960
And what what surprised me about the project was that you could use smoke modern smokeless powders with a muzzle loader now.
00:20:47.119 --> 00:21:00.480
So if you're if you're uh a hunter that is is very you know keyed in on a particular hunting season around muzzle loader, we were impacting a 12-inch plate at 706 yards with this thing.
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.880
Oh wow, and that was 45 caliber.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:11.759
And so when when I think of caseless scenarios, that's kind of where my mind goes because of the relevance with the hunting, you know.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:22.319
What we did is we took 30 out six cases, filled them with the powder, put a foam earplug in there to cork it off, and then just uh dumped them into the funnel.
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:28.240
And we were using Vitavori uh N120, and it it worked great.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:35.279
Uh, I put a trigger tech Remington 700 diamond trigger in it, set at seven ounces, and I had a 50 power F-class scope on it.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:36.559
I was not joking around.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.839
Nice, very fun project.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:46.160
That was one of my first experiences with uh how important measuring out your powder grain is.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:54.640
Uh, I did some speed loaders for a muzzle loading deer season back when I was in high school, and I shorted it and took my first shot.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:55.519
It was a beautiful shot.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.599
You couldn't ask for a better shot, and you could see the ball go out.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.759
And it smacked the deer in the side.
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.519
It jumped and it took off.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:04.880
And it was in the wintertime.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:06.240
So there was a little bit of snow on the ground.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:06.960
And I went over there.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.559
There wasn't a speck of blood.
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.160
But that deer probably had a big old bruise on the side of them.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:18.160
Um and pulled the the next speed loader and re-weight or re-uh checked the powder.
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.519
And it was definitely short.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:20.400
Oh wow.
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:20.880
Yeah.
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:22.640
Live and learn, right?
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:23.519
Details matter.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:24.000
Yes.
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:24.240
Yeah.
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:24.720
Yeah.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:28.880
What's your take uh like with modern cartridges?
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:36.880
What's your take on the 68 uh by 51 and the 277 Sig Fury from a reloading perspective?
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.200
Well, I'm hoping to get hands-on with that cartridge.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:51.759
I haven't yet, but it does dovetail nicely with some of the projects that we worked on, uh, specifically with alpha munitions over the last couple of years.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.720
So some of our testing has involved, and you know, I talked about blowing up the AR.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:05.200
That was uh sort of pushing six arc beyond uh it was well into the upper limits of six creed more, you know.
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:19.839
And and you're up there at 80,000 plus psi when you're doing that kind of testing, again, under very closely controlled uh conditions and very not something that someone should try.
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:34.720
Uh, but we also pushed 308 into 300 wind mag territory and did also did a a 6 GT story along the same lines, testing pressure with a pressure port and a and a transducer.
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:42.960
So I think personally the the higher pressure scenarios are very interesting.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:48.720
And with proof research announcing PXT last week, did you guys see that announcement?
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:49.759
I did not.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:50.160
No.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.920
Tell me more about that.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.359
So it's proof exponential twist.
00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:01.359
Uh, I was traveling with Ray Helms from the X-Ring channel, and he he had actually had been hands-on with it.
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:05.680
And uh I dropped a video the day of the launch, I think it was last Wednesday.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:19.519
And the whole idea is with these really high pressure cartridges, if you start off with almost zero twist, I think it's one in 200 when the bullet starts moving into the rifling.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:29.440
And then uh you have this exponential gain twist formula inside the barrel, you might exit with one in eight or something like that.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:35.440
It takes that pressure peak and it stretches it way out uh along the length of the barrel.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:37.920
If you if you think about pressure over distance.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:43.039
So what they're advertising is uh less torquing.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:48.160
You know how when you shoot uh a rifle and it can it twists basically the opposite direction is the rifling.
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:48.640
Right.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:58.480
And they're also looking at approximately double the barrel life because you don't have the throat area taking the brunt of that high pressure with a slower build.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:06.160
And then also increased accuracy because in PXT they've also incorporated a hybrid rifling profile.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.319
And this is all secondhand.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:19.519
I don't have first ex first hand experience with any of this, but that type of technology has been used in, I understand, Gatling guns like air-to-air type stuff for a while now.
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:33.039
And so if you take the shell casing technology and you take this new barrel technology along with these high-pressure cartridges, we're just about to start working with seven backcountry here at Ultimate Reloader.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.279
In fact, the ammo is getting delivered today.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.240
I think most people agree this is where everything is heading.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:48.319
So I'm I'm eager to get hands-on with it and uh eager to build rifles with this new game twist technology and the whole thing.
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:58.319
And um, you know, we've shown some amazing results with really high quality brass, but yeah, the hybrid case technology will should be really interesting to work with.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.319
Are hybrid cases practical for civilian shooters?
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.240
That is a good question.
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.759
I think it depends on what you're trying to do.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:19.839
You know, that the seven backcountry is centered around an alloy steel case that is one piece, as far as I know.
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:24.559
And so it's pretty practical for factory ammunition.
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:34.720
Okay, and I understand it is possible to reload, but there are some very special uh reloading die and process considerations, which we'll be getting into shortly.
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:39.599
So I think the jury's still out for me on that, okay, but more data coming.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:40.720
Interesting.
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:51.759
Uh, when we're just talking about some of the modern cartridges, what are some older or niche calibers that you think deserve more attention from reloaders as uh possibilities?
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:58.640
Oh man, I could go in so many different directions with this.
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:09.440
Uh I think my take on it is that this catalog of modern cartridges that we have covers pretty much everything that you're gonna need.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:16.960
And so when I think about you know antiquated cartridges, I think more about the firearms that they're chambered in.
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:17.440
Okay.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:22.880
Uh the 762 by 54R from the Mosin Nagant, for for instance.
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:37.599
I I once had a a Russian co-worker when I was in the the tech industry, and he was just obsessed with free-floating his sparrow and and doing a little trigger job on his Mosin and hand loading the ammo.
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.839
And you know, he had lop well cases and all that.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.799
And we both shot five eighths inch groups at 100 yards with this thing.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:45.839
That's awesome.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.599
So, you know, yeah.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:55.839
Uh, and so things like that, you know, make me think, you know, I have a particular obsession with the weatherbees for some reason.
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:13.119
You know, I I have all of the PRCs, but there's something about that double radius cartridge design, something very special about the the Weatherby uh Mark V, uh German and Japanese manufactured rifles.
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:16.480
It just gives you that feeling, you know, and it's it's something different.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:25.119
If you go back and read some of those Weatherby catalogs that Roy used to write, I mean, the the Weatherby cartridge is unparalleled in the world.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.200
It's the best in the universe.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:28.640
According to him.
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:29.440
Yeah.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:30.720
Yeah.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:38.079
Uh first time I shot my 270 Weatherby at a steel target, I I thought I hadn't hit it, but it had merely pierced it.
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:38.400
Oh, wow.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:39.839
And not even moved it.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.240
Yeah.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.039
So I had three a three-shot group in steel.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:44.240
Holy cow.
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:44.640
Yeah.
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.440
What what uh what velocity is that cooking at then?
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.480
I think around 3,000, 3100, maybe.
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:52.640
I would have to go back and look.
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:54.960
Yep, which is good for that type of bullet.
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:55.680
That's wild.
00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:59.680
And not good for steel unless you go up to three, four, or five hundred yards.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:05.920
Our range supervisor would have me running laps around our entire range if I did that to his steel targets.
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:06.400
Yeah.
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:13.519
One of the antiquated cartridge explorations I want to go down is the World War II bolt action collection.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:14.000
Okay.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.480
Yeah.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.720
So 1903 Springfield, uh uh Mosen Nagon.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:19.759
I have to give me Kagan.
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:24.799
I have a 1941 manufactured one of those, but uh Air Saka, German Mauser.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.400
And, you know, just learn about the cartridges, uh, load them, shoot them.
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.160
Oh, I also have a 6.5 Carcano.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:37.359
So I guess I have I have two of the bolt guns from World War II.
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:38.160
Yeah.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:49.359
Uh, but it's all about celebrating the experience, trying to vicariously figure out what it was like back then, you know, through through modern components, I guess.
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.240
And uh always trying something new.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:58.240
I mean, that's really what reloading allows you to do is to try infinitely new things.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:07.519
Tweak this here, tweak that there, give it a shot and see what kind of uh performance upgrades or maybe the performance upgrade you thought you were gonna get doesn't pan out.
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:08.000
Yep.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:10.960
Yeah, people ask me when are you gonna run out of video ideas?
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.079
And I tell them never.
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:16.720
I'm I'm not even close to getting started with all that there is to talk about, you know.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.400
What's the most ridiculous cartridge that you've ever worked with?
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:21.759
That's easy.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.720
It's just straight up the 50 BMG.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:29.200
It's it's not practical ballistically.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:50.240
Uh, you've got a 250 grain powder charge, which is 10 223s if you're gonna pour 223 charges into it, uh, 750 grain bullet and just massive eye rattling recoil with the brake, you know, like it's just a shockwave.
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:54.720
So when I want to get ridiculous, I I pull out the 50 BMG.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:59.839
So uh let's talk about reloading fundamentals and some precision details.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:07.680
If someone wanted to just get into reloading today, they don't have any experience uh before with reloading.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.319
Uh, where would you suggest they start before making any purchases?
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:19.279
I think to start by really thinking through their near long-term goals.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:27.839
You know, if it's if it is a competitor, I've known PRS competitors that have shot factory ammunition only.
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:36.480
Uh, that person, I would probably give different advice compared to someone that was going to reload hunting ammunition, for instance.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:37.039
Okay.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:40.640
And then there's the self-examination.
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:42.480
How mechanically inclined am I?
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.880
If you're mechanically inclined, you might want to start like I did with a progressive press.
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:59.200
Whereas if you like to keep it simple, if these concepts seem foreign and difficult, then start with something like a turret press or a single stage press, something like that.
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.400
But watch videos, you know, do research.
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:07.519
Uh, we're going to be coming out with courses, paid courses on our on our website.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:16.799
And that will be the goal there is just organize all of the best information into one place and provide a start-to-finish flow, you know.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:22.319
But there's there's so much good information out there now that there's no excuse to not do it.
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.920
So I've had similar people come up and be like, Oh, I want to build my first AR.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:26.799
What should I buy?
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:31.599
And it's sounds like it's you give them the same advice, like, well, what do you want to do?
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:39.839
Like, is it depending on what you want to do, how you want to accomplish that, that's gonna determine what gear you invest in right off the bat.
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:41.279
Yeah, for sure.
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:44.480
What equipment matters the most for beginners?
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:54.799
I think the press is an investment that that you're gonna want to think about, uh, because that's sort of the heart of the reloading process.
00:32:55.039 --> 00:33:00.640
I think the load load manuals, different load manuals have different takes on information.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.000
I'll give you a couple examples.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:12.880
Uh Lee Precision has a book written by Richard Lee, and he covers uh reduced loads in great detail.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:18.319
Okay, so you're not going to find that information in in other manuals in the same way.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:23.279
Hornady does a great job uh with specialty load data.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:31.440
For instance, in the 223, 556 class, they have 223 data, 556 data, and service rifle data.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.279
So depending on what you're doing, you'll find you know more granular information.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.240
And if their main goal is to sell bullets, right?
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:40.559
Right.
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:54.319
So if you're a Hornady bullet consumer, you'll find all of the information in their loads, specific, you know, cartridge overall length for your bullet seating depth and performance data.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:59.200
And it they really do a great job of supporting their products of that way.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:08.480
But you could also, if you have a 168-grain 308 load and you're using the same type of bullet, you can exchange that load data.
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:12.000
It's a cup and core bullet and you're going to go from one brand to another.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:17.280
So it's not like they're completely locking you in, but they're definitely providing a great first-hand experience there.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:31.679
Uh, it's, I think, very important to have a really good scale because uh going back to our 45 ACP example, if you've got a five grain powder charge, the difference between five and five and a half grains is 10%.
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:39.519
Uh, and that the sensitivity and accuracy of the scale is gonna be is going to be really important there.
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:45.119
If you're working up precision loads, you might have the same needs and requirement for a good scale there.
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:51.280
In any case, it's gonna help you ensure that you're on the right track and are loading safe ammo.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.199
So there's no such thing as close enough when you're coming to reloading?
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:57.119
I think there really is, actually.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:57.679
Oh, okay.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:59.119
That's potentially a myth.
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:14.079
All right, I think, is you know, if you're hunting deer at 100 yards and you're within the uh between min and max, is it gonna matter if your powder charge is off by a full grain?
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:17.039
You know, normally we obsess about one-tenth of a grain.
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.639
Absolutely not.
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:21.119
It's not gonna make a difference at all.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:27.360
So it really, again, is about again going back to what are you doing and what are your requirements and goals.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:28.000
Okay.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.480
So you mentioned progressive reloaders.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:35.119
I'd like to get your perspective on like what are the pros and the cons of a progressive reloader?
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:37.360
That's been my only experience with reloading.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.000
And I didn't set up the progressive reloader myself.
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:45.199
I had somebody else already set it up for the the bullet and the ammo that we were trying to create.
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:51.280
Um, I found it really easy to crank out ammo, but what's your perspective on progressives?
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.960
I think progressives can vary widely.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:55.519
Okay.
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:03.119
Uh they can have from three stations, like I mentioned, my first press, all the way up to 10 stations.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:10.639
There are at least two presses now that have or brands actually that offer 10 station reloaders.
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:16.639
So when you get into the more complex equipment, it's more for high volume reloading.
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:28.480
Okay, because there's a lot more setup time and there's a lot more investment in the equipment, and it's just it is all more complex.
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:39.440
And then there are also quite a few presses that are progressive that are really easy to use as well, like the Dylan RL550 is a four-station press.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:43.119
And you can use it like a single stage if you want.
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.360
I mean, you can with most of them.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:57.599
Uh, but then when you get into wanting to have a bullet drop station and having a powder check station and having separate seating and crimping stations, then you're going to run out of stations.
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:10.239
So it again maps directly to am I a pistol loader and am I optimizing this for 200,000 rounds a year, which competitive shooters can easily consume?
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:18.800
Or is this a ballistics lab and I'm loading 10 cartridges at a time or loading 20 hunting cartridges at a time.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:32.880
All of the equipment for the most part can do the same job, but uh you'll find it's going to be more affordable, slower, but easier to get used to a single stage or turret setup, at least initially.
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:41.840
And then you have to keep in mind the manufacturer that you're using as well, because I'm assuming a lot of these aren't interchangeable with different manufacturers.
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:47.280
Yeah, if you're in the single stage or turret side of the equation, almost everything interchanges.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.480
You're going to snap in a shell holder and you're going to screw in dies.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:56.639
And 90% of reloading dies use 78 by 14 threading.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.840
And so almost all of them work together.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:04.639
Uh now we're seeing inch dies, inch and a quarter dies.
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:12.239
And if you go up to 50 BMG, inch and a half dies, you know that that's kind of like the corner case scenario.
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:27.119
But I just upgraded to one inch dies with the reading ultra mag press, and all you have to do is spin off uh the bushing that's screwed onto the top of the press, and you can very quickly switch it to one inch from seven eighths.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:28.239
So nice.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.719
It's it's all about you know what you want to do.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:36.800
But by and large, single stage turret, easy to exchange equipment between brands.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:46.159
When you get into the progressives, you have proprietary shell plates, you have, in some cases, uh die station locator buttons like what Dylan has.
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.800
You have special case feeder parts.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:58.400
And so what you'll typically end up doing is buying something like a caliber conversion kit, and you might spend a couple hundred bucks on a caliber conversion kit.
00:38:58.480 --> 00:38:58.719
Wow.
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:08.559
And then if you go from a 6CT over to a six creed more, you might just make an adjustment, or you might need a different case feed adapter uh where the case gets inserted.
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:19.760
So the combination of different parts and pieces with the progressive, if you reload 10 cartridges plus, can become quite significant.
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:24.320
And that becomes a big part of your inventory and upfront investment.
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:32.800
So you'll see people when I'm out at the range, uh the the brass goblins going out and picking up the brass and taking it back because they want to reload it.
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:38.719
But when I'm out there shooting some of my Mill Surp ammo, I never see anybody fighting over that.
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:45.199
Uh, why is military uh case reloading worth the effort that you have to put into it?
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:53.920
And could you explain the amount of effort that you have to to put into uh reloading a military case compared to like just your standard brass case?
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.360
Yeah, so I think there's two big considerations here.
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:00.400
One is the type of primer that's used.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.920
So some military SKUs of ammunition use what's called Berdan primers.
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:10.320
Those Berdan primers use two flash holes that are off-center.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:18.960
All conventionally reloaded shell casings use boxer primers that have one flash hole in the middle, right?
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.800
That's where the decapping pin goes in and pushes the primer out.
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:32.320
And so if you have Birdan primed cases, I believe a lot of 762 by 39 comes that way.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:36.960
And a lot of it is steel, which is not right really reloadable as well.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.199
Uh, people will argue on that point.
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:41.679
Uh, that's throwaway brass, in my opinion.
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:46.719
People reload it just to say they can, but uh, yeah, you want boxer prime brass.
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:53.280
You're gonna have to be careful about crimped primer pockets, specifically on Military 308 and Military 556.
00:40:53.440 --> 00:41:07.440
So after you poke the primer out, you need to either swage, which is to push the brass out of the way, or ream cutting the brass ring that holds the primer in before you'll be able to put uh a new primer in.
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:08.719
So that's one consideration.
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.320
All that around primers.
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:15.760
The other bigger consideration is machine gun chambers.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:22.320
So I've got a bunch of military 762 by 51, i.e.
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:39.599
308 brass, and the the machine gun chambers are so much oversized compared to a 308 bolt-action civilian rifle that it's literally nearly impossible to size it back down, even with a small base die.
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:46.639
And when you anneal brass, you're softening it, but you're only softening the neck and the shoulder area and a bit of the body.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:55.280
It doesn't soften the area at the base that's super thick and gets deformed when it's you know fired out of a uh a machine gun like that.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:04.400
So it's all about knowing what you're picking up at the range and picking your battles, I guess.
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:09.440
I I I'd love to hear your feedback on this, Steve, because I know you've probably encountered this too.
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:12.400
It's the same thing with Glocks in the 40 caliber.
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:22.239
You know, they've got that little bulge and you you run them through one of those reading bulge buster dies or whatever they're called, the GX die, I think it is, GRX, and they work just fine.
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:27.119
But Reading says don't use them for max loads after that with good reason.
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:27.920
Interesting.
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:31.199
It's been worked, you know, the the brass has been worked just a little bit.
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:31.760
Yeah.
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:40.159
So I've noticed I have a MP5 clone, and every time it's got that fluted chamber, and then the way that it ejects, it'll flatten that one side of the case.
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:49.920
Is that kind of a similar type of thing where you could probably, if you had to and you wanted to throw money away reloading nine mil, um you could do it with it.
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.320
You could load it, but it'll never be be pretty again.
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:52.719
Right.
00:42:54.480 --> 00:43:08.320
Yeah, that's uh that's an interesting comment because you'll also find a lot of semi-auto rifles will dent the case neck, um, like the the AR, you know, it'll hit the case neck and you'll have a a flat spot.
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:13.760
Not a big deal because when you when you size the brass, it'll straighten that out.
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.280
And then if you the the bullet also will straighten it out.
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:19.840
So it's all it's knowing about what to look for.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:31.599
Like I think Steve's comment around the the Glock bulge and knowing that that's gone plastic and has to be pushed back, and it won't be once it's yielded like that, it won't be the same.
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:44.320
I know when you manufacture cases, you're trying to get the case head area as hard as you can so that it will retain the primer and and there's a lot of pressure back there as well.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:51.760
So if you're firing it into glock with an unsupported chamber, that's also part of the equation, is that it's unsupported, right?
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:57.280
So if your strength is gone and things aligned poorly, I'm imagining that could be a safety issue in itself.
00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.760
So what I'm hearing when it comes to military counter.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:01.760
Calibers is can it be done?
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:02.480
Yes.
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:05.679
Is it worth is the juice worth the squeeze?
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.960
Probably not, unless you're trying to just get bragging right saying that you've you've you were able to do it.
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:12.320
Is that accurate?
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:19.519
Yeah, and I think you get more variation in case wet weight and case uh wall thickness as well.
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:27.280
So if you're if you're trying to do anything precision oriented, any kind of mixed head stamp scenario can be challenging.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:36.320
But if you just want plinking ammo for your AR, you know, the military brass is fine if you've got more time than money and you want to do the primer pockets and all that.
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:37.039
I've done it.
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.159
Absolutely.
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:38.559
Yeah.
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:38.960
All right.
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:39.360
Yep.
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:45.760
So when I was talking to some reloaders and prepping to talk to you today, Gavin, they wanted me to bring up neck turning.
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:58.159
Like what exactly for those of you or for those of our listeners that are like myself that aren't as familiar with reloading, what is necturing and why are some reloaders hesitant to necturn their brass?
00:44:58.480 --> 00:44:58.960
Yeah.
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.320
So necturing is one of those interesting things.
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:14.400
And honestly, when you consider the interface between the neck area of the chamber and the neck area of the brass, I've heard wildly different things from people I respect.
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:16.320
I'll just start by saying that.
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:36.400
Uh, one of those anecdotes was uh I was talking with Eric Cortina, who's an F-Class shooter, a pro shooter, and he said, What we've seen on target, and on target is what matters, obviously, is that really tight clearances between the the brass and the chamber in the neck area is not what you want.
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:46.320
So you could say, I'm gonna have a tight neck in my chamber and I'm gonna turn turn the neck down so that it just slips in and there's not a lot of rattle room, right?
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:50.880
Eric is saying, in his experience, that doesn't help.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.760
So that's kind of like a myth busted situation.
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:54.320
Okay.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:58.159
Uh so the fit is is one consideration for that.
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:02.719
I think the other consideration is case neck thickness uniformity.
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:20.960
In other words, if you took a tubing micrometer and you measured the thickness all the way around the neck, say at 90 degree intervals, so you have four data points, you want to see very little variation there because if you have thick brass on one side and thin on the other, your bullet is off-center.
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:25.440
And when it engages with the rifling, it's now cockeyed.
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:35.280
And if the bullet exits the bore and it's wobbling because it's not axially aligned with the bore axis, obviously that's a problem.
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.559
You're gonna have shot dispersion, you know, from that.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:48.000
So I do pay attention to neck thickness uniformity, but I think like a lot of things with modern components, things have gotten a lot better.
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:48.400
Okay.
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:55.760
And, you know, if I'm within a couple tenths, as in one ten thousandth of an inch, um, I'm happy with that.
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:58.159
And so I haven't done much neck turning.
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:06.800
I've shown it on the channel, I've I've reloaded with it, I've talked about you know, neck sizing bushings and sizing for those based on your neck thickness.
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:13.440
And I think it's mostly the bench rest guys and the F-class guys that are gonna obsess there.
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:18.079
And I think they do have reasons to, but for most people, it won't make a difference.
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:18.800
Gotcha.
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:19.440
Gotcha.
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:24.480
Another one of those uh how much time do you have to invest in it?
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:26.480
Yes, yes, exactly.
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:36.239
Yeah, because when you start neck dream or neck sizing like that, you want interchangeable bushings in your dies to match whatever die whatever thickness you're trimming your brass to.
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:43.199
You know, the the the uh reading dies with the interchangeable bushings that come in different sizes, you know, one thousandth increments.
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:43.679
Yeah.
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:48.480
That's that's so you get the proper tension that you want for that particular load.
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:55.039
Yeah, so you'll you'll need to have bushings on hand based on what neck turning diameter you decide on, right?
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:56.079
It becomes right.
00:47:56.320 --> 00:48:02.400
And how and how many times your brass has been fired, how springy it is, yeah, and how much neck tension you actually want.
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:04.559
Is it gonna go in an auto feeding rifle?
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:08.800
Is it gonna go in a bolt action single shot, you know, very gently into the chamber?
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:11.039
It's a rabbit hole.
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:17.599
Absolutely, so much details and like they factor in in so many different ways that I didn't realize, I guess.
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:29.199
So if you buy one bushing set like that, you know, or one die set that takes bushings, or you're gonna wind up with you know a dozen bushings at some point because it's just the way it works.
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.440
But guys love their rabbit holes.
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:32.960
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:56.880
Speaking of rabbit holes, and I've I've encountered this with some of our folks who work in a warehouse and uh some of our sales guys, or uh even some of our gun techs on our uh gun tech line, but they'll have people calling in because they want the bullets uh that they're buying and the brass that they're buying, the lot numbers to be matching or very consecutive, um, not uh completely off.
00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:00.639
Does that really matter in the grand scheme of things?
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:02.320
You know, interesting.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:17.280
Interestingly, I'm not probably the person to ask that because unlike a lot of people, I will build a rifle, I will do some initial load development, I'll shoot 20 rounds, and then I'll build the next rifle.
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:21.519
Okay, or test the next press, or move to another power, or test a new bullet.
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:27.760
I'm not the guy with the one gun that you have to really worry about, as in like the old West saying.
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:35.280
I think the guys that compete are gonna have much better, like I'd be curious to hear what F-Class John would say on that.
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:44.960
He shoots a seven PRCW in F-Class, and he shoots burger 180 bullets, though the hybrids, seven millimeter.
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:51.360
And he I know he shoots uh uh Vitaburi N555, known as triple nickel.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:50:00.960
He's probably shot so much of all of that that he could talk about Lapo brass consistency, he could talk about lot to lot differences in Vitaburi powder.
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:06.960
Oh wow, and maybe even the the burger 180 bullets, those things that is literally the magic bullet, by the way.
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:12.400
If you have a seven millimeter and you want a really good shooting bullet, definitely try 180 hybrids.
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:13.119
Good to know.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.960
I'm gonna be talking with a uh PRS guy here on our next episode.
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:23.119
So I'll bring up the uh bullet in brass lot number question up to him and see what his perspective is on that as well.
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:32.960
I do know for sure that with rim fire ammunition, 22 LR and the deep dive things that people do there, the the lots definitely matter there.
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:33.920
Interesting.
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:34.639
Yeah.
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:41.199
So what it sounds like is consistency is what a lot of people are looking for.
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:48.320
And would you say that's what really matters for a lot of these reloaders is just the consistency portion, not locking that down?
00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:50.559
That is absolutely my goal.
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:57.440
My my ultimate dream with a rifle is I get a load that the rifle likes.
00:50:57.679 --> 00:51:00.079
I shoot it on day one, it performs great.
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:02.320
I shoot it on day 12, it performs great.
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.800
I shoot it a year later, it performs great.
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:13.119
And that that is, I think, what most uh precision shooters are chasing is I want that consistency.
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:22.159
I want to know that I can depend on the my rifle and the ammo so that when I go to shoot a match or go to take that long-range shot at an elk, I have complete confidence.
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:23.280
Which makes sense.
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:26.639
Steve, you look like you're wanting to say something there.
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:36.159
No, consistency is great, but every time I get a gun tuned in where I where it shoots really great, being a gunsmith, I lose interest in it immediately and go to the next one.
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:37.360
It's boring at that point.
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:42.400
Yeah, if it shoots too well, then I don't want it.
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:44.880
This is too dependable.
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:48.400
I need something that requires my tender loving care, you know.
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:49.039
Love it.
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.239
It's got a little bit of a a quirk to it that you gotta plan for.
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:53.039
That's right.
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:54.079
That's right.
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:58.000
All right, some uh rapid fire questions here for you, Gavin.
00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:00.480
Just real quick uh answers on your end.
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:02.880
What's your favorite cartridge to reload?
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:04.239
Six-dasher.
00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:06.079
It's the easy button.
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.320
What's the most underrated reloading tool?
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:14.400
I would say the Frankfurt Arsenal hand priming tool.
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.719
It works great, it doesn't cost a lot.
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:17.840
Easy to load.
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:18.719
What's not to like?
00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:19.440
Nice.
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:22.400
How about the most overrated reloading trend?
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:24.719
Ultrasonic cleaning of brass.
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:27.280
Because you don't want your brass too clean.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:32.079
If you remove too much carbon, that's neck lube, and your bullet seating will suffer.
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:32.719
Okay.
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:36.480
Where do you uh where do you sit on the steel pins controversy?
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:45.599
I've done it and I think it's fine, but honestly, my turn and burn is walnut shell media and a tumbler, uh vibratory tumbler.
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:45.840
Right.
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:47.119
Because it's fast.
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:47.840
Yeah.
00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:52.639
You you separator takes 20 seconds and boom, we're off and running.
00:52:52.880 --> 00:53:00.559
Doesn't look the best, but I'm always scared that I don't get a pin out of a case sometime and scratch my bore or something, you know.
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:01.039
True.
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:02.880
I always worry about that thought as well.
00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:03.280
Yeah.
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:06.719
Now those those pins will take rust off of anything.
00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:09.920
You just throw something in there, it comes out clean at some point.
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:12.960
If it's not clean, just leave it in there a little longer.
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:13.840
Yeah.
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.280
All right, Gavin.
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:18.320
Uh, one cartridge every shooter should own, in your opinion.
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.800
I'm gonna say two, two, three, and specifically in a bolt gun because it's just too much fun.
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:27.199
That was one of my favorite guns to shoot when I went uh prairie dog hunting.
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:32.159
Like, is it can you get out there the furthest distance and is it the flattest shooting?
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:41.360
No, but yeah, it's kind of fun to plan for you know bullet drop or wind with uh a small little bullet like that, just like just a fast moving 22.
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:42.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.039
Yep.
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:46.400
Uh what's the biggest internet myth in reloading?
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:52.639
This is kind of hard to pick from, but I'm gonna say primer pocket cleaning because I don't ever do it.
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.360
So nobody's got time for that.
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:56.719
Yep.
00:53:56.960 --> 00:54:00.800
Uh what's one mistake that every reloader makes at least once?
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:07.679
Well, if you've got a precision powder dispenser, you drain it into your powder jug and then you leave the drain open.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:11.280
And then when you pour the next powder in, it goes all over your bench.
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:13.119
Oh, so I'm not the only one.
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.239
Great.
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:15.360
That's right.
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:19.360
So uh, where can listeners find Ultimate Reloader?
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:22.400
Uh, what's what's the best way to reach out to you, interact with you?
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.400
Well, uh, our website, ultimatereloader.com, is a great place to start.
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:31.199
We're also on YouTube at youtube.com slash ultimate reloader.
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:33.679
And uh, we're also on Facebook and Instagram.
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:34.400
Awesome.
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:38.000
Any projects that you're working on that you're excited about right now?
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:40.000
Yeah, I've got two big projects.
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:51.519
One I announced at the shot show, which is Rifle Builder Pro, which is a software platform and reference library for those that are initially it's focused on chambering bolt action rifles.
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:58.400
So documenting the undocumented, uh guiding machinists through the process, starting with manual machining.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.400
It's it's it's pretty cool.
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:06.480
That rifle building thing, you know, a lot of machinist forums they talk obsessively about building guns.
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:07.039
Really?
00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:07.440
Yeah.
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:09.119
So you're gonna get an audience there.
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:10.480
It's just built in.
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:12.079
That's a great idea.
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:13.280
Thank you, Steve.
00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:14.400
I do have a question for you.
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:15.280
Sure.
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:17.920
What's your favorite cartridge to reload?
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:20.320
Uh it'll be a pistol cartridge of some kind.
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:26.000
Um right now it is uh are you familiar with 3844?
00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:37.599
No, it's a 38 special loaded up to Magnum pressures because it's meant to be shot in a 44 frame of some kind.
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:42.000
You know, Smith and Weston came out with that caliber a long time ago for their end frames.
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:42.559
Nice.
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.960
So the police would have more power, but it's also shorter than a 357.
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:52.880
And if you use the long Keith cast bullet, you can't get it in a Model 27 Smith.
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:59.840
But if you use the 3844, you can get the same performance out of a 38 special case, or very nearly so.
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:04.960
And uh by using slow powders, you're well within pressure and what's not to like.
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:05.760
Very cool.
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:06.960
I love wheel guns.
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:08.559
Yeah, I got a bunch of them.
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:11.840
Yeah, I was gonna say Steve is our uh in-house wheel gun expert, right?
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:13.280
Oh, yeah, I got a lot of them.
00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:14.800
I'm gonna file that away.
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.480
So don't uh be surprised if I email you Steve with some wheel gun questions.
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:21.440
Okay, 44 specialists second place, easily.
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:22.079
Nice.
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:26.639
Well, Gavin, thanks for bringing your experience and perspective to the Ram Room today.
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:35.760
And if you enjoyed today's episode, share built to last with someone who understands that precision matters, consistency counts, and good results never come from cutting corners.
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:44.159
As always, ready aim, fire your comments or questions to built to last at brown elves.com and rate and comment wherever you stream this podcast from.
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.440
Remember, if it's worth building, ensure it's built to last.