WEBVTT
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But you got me the way I get everyone else.
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The five minutes of having achieved the goal is is fun and all, but that's not your life.
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The 30 years before the goal was achieved, that's your life.
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I feel like I know far less despite reading far more.
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I would not stop.
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No matter how much you pay me.
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Doing more doesn't always mean more output if.
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Welcome to Built Human.
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The world keeps moving faster and faster.
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AI and technology are moving more rapidly than ever.
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Yet somehow our health and often our humanity get left behind.
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I'm Andrew Koka.
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This is John Marchetti.
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Welcome to Built Human.
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Today I am on location.
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I'm not in my usual backdrop.
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I am in Maui, Hawaii.
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I know, don't feel sorry for me.
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No, but I'm at a conference now, and of course, can't skip my usual recording time with Marshi.
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So sorry, Marshy.
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Only one of us gets to have this beautiful.
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You can't see it, but there's a nice ocean view over there.
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So excited to get out after this.
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I wouldn't trade anything for Massachusetts.
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That's okay.
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That's okay.
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I feel bad, not that bad.
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Um but yeah, no, it's it's been a while since we've we've uh done a one-on-one podcast.
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I think we started our our uh our episodes and our and our podcast doing this this one-on-one.
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And I think it's been a it's going to be a good um break and bringing some guests on and being able to level set and recap and and see where we are, um the two of us and in these episodes.
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So I actually have a way that I really want to kick this off.
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Um didn't prime you, but Andrew, what does it mean to be human?
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Oh, you got me the way I get everyone else.
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Well, I've had such a good time listening to everyone else telling me what it means to them to be human.
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And to me, I actually haven't thought about it.
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I've just kind of reflected and thought it's so nice to hear everyone else's.
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So I'm gonna give you my raw take.
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Not pre-prepared.
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But I think to be human is to have the capacity to feel specifically love, but in the end, there's this whole emotional journey of humanity.
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It's like one of those um yin and yang, like smiley, sad emojis, like you know, we're we're in this cycle of we we love deeply and then we we feel such pain and sadness deeply, but it's this beautiful dance of life.
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And we have this ability to feel and to perceive and to have this consciousness as humans that other animals and and technology itself, it doesn't have, right?
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It's not about what we do and how we do it.
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It's about who we are and how we feel.
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And if it's similar to me, like if you ask me what I thought the meaning of this life was, I'd probably tell you to to grow, but also to enjoy, you know, to feel, to, to do things that make you happy and fulfilled and full of love and and the vibrancy of life, you know, and like if you asked a if you looked at a dog and you're like, what does it mean to be a dog?
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Like it's not going to necessarily it it doesn't have that capability of that vibrancy of having that cycle of life.
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It just is in the present moment all the time, and it's always just living its stream of consciousness.
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Whereas we, you know, we have this, I live in the past or the future, I try to be present, but I'm going through all these cycles and journeys of the emotion of life.
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And I think that's what I would I I mean, I I think that's probably how I would kick it off is is that.
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You know, it's interesting.
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I think within that that answer, I I have my own perspective, obviously, but I think something that you may have clarified or or dissociated from me in the two trains of thought is you have you you is you essentially do have two trains of thought.
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It's exactly that.
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It's one being human, but two living.
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And both are very different, right?
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Like for in the way you just painted it, what do you mean to be what does it mean to be a dog?
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What does it mean to be human?
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Those are very different.
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But if you twist the argument a little bit more and say, what does it mean to live?
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Um, well, that's very different.
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And and I think par a big part of that is is presence.
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Like you said, don't live in the past, don't live in the future, but be present, be able to enjoy every element that life gives you, whether you believe it's life and you're living it, or it's a simulation, it doesn't matter.
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You can still slow down, enjoy it, and be be happy by engaging with it.
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And then in the same aspects that you think about that for humanity, you can think about that for a dog as well, and how happy a dog is just to be around people and around um, to your point, things and and and people and other other pets that they love.
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So it's very interesting the stark difference between the two.
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That's well said.
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And you know, I I think for a long time when I first got into business life and personal development and professional and personal growth, there was a lot of this idea of how do I better myself to the point where, you know, I'm always in the present moment and I'm always optimizing my habits and routines and my efficiencies.
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And I think part of this beautiful dance of being human is also just understanding that if we were all in the present moment all the time and fully optimized and all you know, all the things that we so desperately strive for, like I don't think we would be human.
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I don't think I don't think that that's I mean we would, but I I think part of the beauty of of life is the journey.
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And if we're already all at the end of the journey, you know, when we start the journey, well, okay, you got what you were aiming for, but I I think the being human and the life, like loving life and experiencing life is the journey.
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And it's not the end of the journey that makes the journey what it is, it's the whole journey itself.
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And so, yeah, I one of the fun things that always stuck with me when was when I was like 19, I was in a room with Gary Keller of Keller Williams uh real estate company, and he was doing this thing where he'll like mentor young kids, and I was one of them, and he said people are so focused on their goal, like the end result of that goal.
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But you know, and he was talking about how it he achieved a certain goal.
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Of course, he's a billionaire and built the at the time the largest real estate company in the world, and it was like, well, the 30 years it takes to achieve that goal is your life.
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The the five minutes of having achieved the goal is is fun and all, but that's not your life.
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The 30 years before the goal was achieved, that's your life.
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So it's like, how are you living, right?
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And and how are you making that journey as fulfilling as possible?
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So I don't know, I often think about these things, like and it's it's not to say like don't strive to be better and improve and and have aspirations and all of these things.
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It's just I think we over-index those results sometimes in terms of like how you're living and who you are and what you're feeling and how that matters every moment, you know?
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Yeah.
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And I mean it's the old cliche, it's not about the the destination, it's about the journey, right?
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And I think the journey has to be impactful enough in many ways that um you can wake up and enjoy and compartmentalize that day very differently.
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I think there I'm sure I saw this anecdote on X.
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I'm just such a big X fan.
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I I feel like I only ever talk about X on here whenever I talk about something or reference something.
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Um But there I saw a a tweet or a post the other day that was um comparing how how days pass.
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Um and oftentimes you might be in a routine, but everything within that that routine, though the subject matter may be different, um, is not new.
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So your brain doesn't store new memories and therefore it lives the day much quicker and time goes by much faster.
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And before you know it, a day is over just as fast as an hour as a minute.
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And that's the same is true for a week or a month or a year, and life just kind of passes you by because you don't open yourself up to new experiences, new challenges, and at the end of the day, new people that that really challenged not only your perspective, but also your way of living.
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They want to do it differently with you, but want to show you a different perspective, want to open up your uh your worldview.
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And I think like that's unique to me when we talk about the idea of being human, is you're not just waking up and going through the same routine, but you're acknowledging different experiences every single day so that you can store a new memory, right?
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And I think we often reflect, or humans are are are really good um at reflecting upon uh a period of time and saying, well, what did I accomplish?
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What did I do?
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What was exciting about that um that that time period, what was exciting, excited about this year.
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I mean, we we see it all the time on social media, right?
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With people make year-end recaps, or what's become popular on um Instagram this year is the the month-by-month recaps, or it's a snapshot of what I did in um you know, June, July, August, et cetera.
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And you have your your month is defined by six to eight photos or six to eight memories, but um is more powerful for those to truly become memories.
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And I think about this frequently because of the post, obviously, but how days blend together, especially when you're not moving to different environments, different locations, talking to uh newer people or doing doing new activities, how how they begin to blend together and how living often becomes harder, right?
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Being human often becomes harder because you're not getting new experiences.
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And even something as simple anecdotally of switching your place of work from home office location to Hawaii recording location, right, can offer you a new memory where it's substantial enough that you're gonna walk away from this in two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, and probably say, like, wow, that conversation sticks out in my head.
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I might not, because my set situation is so similar and familiar, right?
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And so it's interesting to break patterns and how that has an impact on the human psyche, if that makes sense.
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No, it it does, and it's so interesting.
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It relates kind of to this.
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I made a leadership training program, as you know, for our organization, and for anyone listening who's not familiar, our organization is about 55, I want to say, employees.
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And we a lot of them are in the technology side, you know, building technology products for internal projects or for clients.
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And one of the things in that training was kind of a level set on personal professional development.
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And and it's kind of like what you just said, so much of what we experience becomes subconscious, unconscious patterns.
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Like, for example, if we have so many like billion bits of data and information all around us, how do we filter it all out?
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And one of the ways we can do that is those habits that your body will do unconsciously, so that you don't have to put your active focus on those things because it doesn't need your active focus.
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So we can filter all of that out.
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Kind of like it's habitual to just tie your shoes or brush your teeth.
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Like it's not something you have to put so much active energy into how you're doing it.
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And so you don't really experience it as actively, kind of like to your point, it just passes quickly and it's habitual.
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And we live in so many of these routines and patterns that you're right, it's just maybe it feels like it's all passing by too quickly when you're just stuck in that routine.
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I think finding those ways to have new information like just hit you, and new experiences is another flavor to how do you live a great life as a human being and not get stuck in this little pattern and routine and go on autopilot, and now your whole life is autopilot, and then you blink and your life's over.
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And I think that's probably the worst nightmare of everyone, right?
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So yeah, new information, new experiences.
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That's so interesting how that impacts that.
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I have a I have an anecdote for this, too.
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Um I love learning about the the tech world and and and tech space, especially in a um AI evolution, right?
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This is the the most knowledgeable I've been or most comprehensive I've been for any of the internet revolutions coming from a 90s baby that existed before the internet, probably about the same time.
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I don't know, I don't know, when whenever it came around.
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But grow up with with many different phases of the internet, like not having it in your your pocket until like mid-col mid mid-high school, right?
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Um but anecdotally, I typically sought out headlines and information that would that I could learn from.
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Um so what are trending topics within the the tech space?
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Oh, is uh, you know, fintech, uh the the leading topic of discussion this week, what um what are moving markets, things like that.
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It's just like a passion of mine to understand the the best of the brightest companies in the world.
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And what I've recently done is taken an AI automation to pull those headlines together so that I don't have to go looking for them.
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I don't really need to search for them.
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I just I have the you know the top five headlines or so every single day in my inbox essentially.
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And if I want to learn more, I can expand on it.
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Just like, you know, ask my AI to uh drill deeper on it, et cetera.
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But what's interesting is I actually feel like I've learned far less despite cutting out the monotonous part that I thought was the um that I thought was a habit, um, that I thought was a routine.
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But because I'm no longer looking for anything, I don't have to comb down threads that bring me through rabbit holes that help help me identify a true interest, that help me dig deeper on the core solution or the core problem, the core topic.
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Now I just have this list of five headlines.
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I read through the headlines and then I go on and and and you know, start start my work.
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And then I look back or I think back to what I read.
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I'm like, oh my God, I actually don't know if I can speak to any of this on in in depth enough because it's so automated that it gets to my inbox that my brain just treats it as a standardized task to read through this list and move on.
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Now all of a sudden I'm not storing core memory anymore because I'm not curating for myself.
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I'm just automating.
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And it's a very simple thing where I mean when we start to talk about like AI and um and technology and in general and how it can uh swing the pendulum so much further away from AI or from humanity and how we need to just kind of keep it right smack in the middle.
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It's one of those things that seems so simple, but for me hasn't been so simple.
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For me, it's actually honestly been a been a problem because I feel like I know far less despite reading far more.
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That's crazy how that works.
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It's it's almost too like, you know, there's an aspect of earned uh earning that knowledge by doing some of that, like you said, rabbit hole, digging through threads.
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And I I think the more the the information becomes convenient, then maybe the more you're like habitually in that autopilot mode when you're reading it too.
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And I mean there is an aspect of there's a lot of homogeneous information and there's a lot of information that is presented as news that is also maybe not really news.
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It's just the latest spin, the latest flavor, and so I I get a lot of that too.
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I I've kind of it was funny, I know we were talking offline about this, but there's some things that you would think I should be up to date on as a tech uh company leader that I actually just don't care to follow because it's become similar to like how back in the day I just stopped watching any of the news.
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And so I don't have any of the like Fox CNN, like any of this apps on my phone or on TV.
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I just kind of shudder when news is on the television because I and and this could be a very cynical perspective, but I've come to kind of just see the sales and everything where it's like everyone's fighting for attention.
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You know, the the legacy media and news are fighting for attention the way social apps are fighting for attention, meta's fighting for my attention to keep me in the app, and so is X, and everyone wants everyone's attention, man.
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And it's like I just don't care to give my attention unless I very intentionally decided to.
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And so I kind of just unplug from the headlines, even to the to a fault, maybe sometimes, where it's like, okay, I could have missed, you know, whatever latest AI model was out or how it's being used, and it's like I just kind of have this sense of like I have such limited brain space, and I either know exactly what's important in front of me, or I try to at least.
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I don't, I'm not perfect at it, of course.
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But then I also have this like, okay, I need to reserve some of it to live my life a little bit and to recharge and enjoy it.
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And what'll happen is if I go too deep on consuming some of that information, what'll be sacrificed is not the business stuff.
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It's actually like my personal quality of life because the business stuff I have to perform as the CEO.
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Like I have to make sure everything is accounted for.
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So that reserve mental energy I feel I've saved for personal things gets expended right into all this other stuff if I go and actually consume it.
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So, like almost to a fault, I just try not to.
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And so in in dinner table conversation or even like semi-professional business conversation where someone's trying to ask me about that, I'm just like, I I I don't know, man.
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I'm not the I'll go and learn it when I feel it's relevant for me to know, and I'm kind of under a rock when it's not, and there's benefits and drawbacks, but that's kind of my approach right now, you know?
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Yeah, and I think like to foster a true learning environment, it used to be you have to act, meaning you you're told something and you go do it.
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You told something, you go do it, right?
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The same of going to a math class, you're told what your multiplication table is, and then you have to go go do it.
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You have to go practice it.
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Same as learning a new skill in in hockey, right?
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You're told how to skate and then you have to go practice it.
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You're told how to sit the candle, then you have to go practice it.
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It's not enough anymore.
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Um or I should say we actually we've moved further away from the action being the learning device, and now it's just the engagement being the learning device.
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So not people be you mentioned earlier, we're in an attention economy.
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So when everything's trying to take your attention, what you need to be able to do is engage on that topic in order to absorb that topic, then you have the opportunity to act on it.
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What I mean by by engage too is right, right, is just to talk about it.
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Um, so like I don't know, let's let's you you use hockey as as an example, right?
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Just because it it seems like trivial enough, and and I think both of us can relate to it, though I've never stick handled a day in my life as a goalie or exhibit A.
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Um, but if you're you're told this is how you stick handle, you have to then, before you begin to practice stick handling, be able to engage and say, explain to someone else this is how you stick handle, or this is what I understand stick handling to be.
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And then you've processed it to the point where you're like, okay, I think I now understand the beginning, the middle, the end.
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I know the journey.
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And then you can go outside and stick handle, right?
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Like, and it sounds trivial to explain it this way, because in theory, if you're told something, you can just go do it.
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And that is true again, especially probably in this example.
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But because we've moved so far away from focusing on very individual and specific things, we have to slow it down and elongate this learning process a lot more.
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I find the same to be true as I mentioned earlier.
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I get a lot of my information on X, but I'll scroll at night for an hour or two hours, not be able to recap anything.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:27.759
Whereas if I um for instance commute into office and you know, or not into office, it's no office, but if if I take a bus into Bossum and on there for 30 minutes my time window has shrunk.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.559
I've now absorbed at least something I thought I think about it.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.920
I bookmark it for later.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:39.680
I'm able to explain the concept in conversation to whoever I'm working I'm I'm talking to that day as it's become a trend and then I'm able to engage.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:45.599
So now we've taken this very short process, very simple process and needed to elongate it because there's just too much information, right?
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.279
We have to boil it down much simpler.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:48.079
Does that make sense?
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.920
Is this something like that makes sense in general?
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.599
No, it does.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:44.160
It's it's very interesting because I think these are things that have happened so subconsciously too and you're kind of putting words to it and I hope it'd be anyone listening because even for myself it's like it's like we need these ways to kind of shock us back to the present moment and and realize these things we're doing subconsciously so that we can because what's the productive effect of what you just said too it's almost like and now now that I see those mechanics playing out in my day to day how do I then deploy that attention and engagement effectively whether it's for learning or for something else like knowing how this is working under the hood what is then the the next step?
00:23:44.319 --> 00:24:18.960
It's like okay maybe I should change some of my routines maybe I should change some of my habits or I mean in your case what how how do you see this tying back to what you were doing with your AI scraper you'd built like how what are you do you plan to change that because you kind of felt like you were going on autopilot and not getting as much from it like how does that work reading it entirely is now just an automation that runs because I know it doesn't actually do anything for me.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:40.480
And maybe another example too that I I I thought of while you're uh you were you were talking just then especially within the the the construct of built human in in general is like going I'm very bad at going to bed very bad at going to bed.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:25:03.839
But I know exactly why like I'm um I'm bad at going to bed and getting general sleep because I have this um idea of what like revenge um oh what do you call it like revenge uh meet time or something like that personal revenge time something something like that where you feel like you you didn't have enough time to yourself during the day so you might have to spend it at night before you go to bed catching up.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:15.599
But I also acknowledge I'm like okay well if I go to bed earlier that will shift my sleep earlier and I've talked about this on previous pods um and that will mean I'm more focused more energized the next day and I won't get caught in the cycle.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:43.440
But what I don't stop to do is explain to myself well why because I tell myself oh going to bed earlier just means I can get up earlier in my midpoint of my my my sleep become comes early but I don't I don't I don't talk through why well closing my eyes earlier will uh result in me getting to sleep in you know five to ten minutes instead of that two to five minutes or whatever it is for being exhausted for for looking at at X X for an hour.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:43.759
Okay.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:44.720
And then what?
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:56.640
And then that means I'll be more more rested for for the morning because the amount of deep sleep that I can get before um before I wake up is actually far more expanded.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:06.000
And so these are things that that I've seen on the the aura app too where I've tracked and saw my sleep and I think it's after like probably four o'clock I actually don't get any deep sleep at all.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:11.839
I mean I will get some deep sleep but it's not nearly as valuable as if I go to bed earlier and earlier and earlier.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:29.599
Like I will get more deep sleep if I between the hours of 10 and three or in general as as I sleep because I my midpoint of my sleep is typically three and that's midpoint of most people sleep within a circadian rhythm than if I go to bed at at 12 even though I I you know sleep for eight hours or whatever that might be.
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:49.759
So being able to walk myself through the why and understand well it's the amount of deep sleep that I'm able to get and on also REM sleep that I'm able to get that actually changes the way that I wake up well that changes my psychology in terms of well I should just put this down because I could always scroll for the hour in the morning but at least I'll be more alert in the morning and at least I'll be more conscious to make these decisions in the morning.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:58.960
It's these types of things that like completely change the the perspective on again how to solve problems consciously and be human.
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:12.160
You know yeah that's such a I know we didn't know the word for it like the self-revenge of taking time back for enjoyment type of thing but I gotta look it up now.
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:42.079
If you can find the word for that because you know that is something that I resonate with so much with I just fall into this trap I would find of like okay there's so much going on with business where I find my pushing the work hours later and then I'm like well I didn't get to do my things you know I didn't get to watch um whatever TV show or or God I don't know anything personal, right?
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:59.119
And and then I'm like okay well I'm gonna do this even if it's terrible for pushing me beyond when I should have gone to bed and keeping me awake and um you know I'm gonna eat a half a tub of ice cream for bears at like you know 11 p.m because like I want to do that.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:12.559
I didn't get a chance to do that earlier and blah blah blah and it's it's like there's just that sense of wait but if I don't do this I won't have like enjoyed my life and that's not cool.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:20.720
I shouldn't like why am I gonna suffer and it's it was almost like a little emotionally painful in some sense.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:29:43.680
And I and I I suffer from that often and I haven't had it that bad the last month but there probably for like six months there I was just ah I was stuck man I was just and and I'm sure it's gonna ebb and flow but like one of the things that helped me uh recently was I started the mornings when I got my bike um you know we did our podcast with Ben Katz I finally got my bike in I um and so I I would take it out for a ride at like 8 a.m until like 9 30 and those workouts in the hybrid app I I will soon I actually um was just trying to figure out how all the computers and stuff work on these bikes man the new bikes are crazy and so I finally got a little bit of routine down and you can ask our head of marketing but so I I was supposed to get on these calls with they're internal calls with our team and so the team would be kind of like why are your camera off and I'd be driving back from the mountains for my bike ride taking the meeting but at some point I was like no I'm gonna carve out like time for myself even if it bleeds into the beginning of the workday I'm gonna start the day with something that's both you know like a healthy exercise but also something I really want to do.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.240
Obviously I can't ride my bike at like 8 p.m at night like it just wouldn't work.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.599
So it's either like you know do it early, do it late.
00:29:51.839 --> 00:30:08.960
But by doing that, it kind of flipped that kind of emotional bite for me because I had when I flipped it to be the morning and then I did something for myself that kind of like even bled into the business day a bit.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:15.440
But I was kind of withdrawing from that bank instead of depositing it during that time.
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:46.559
It did I didn't near the end of the day even if I would have longer hours like I didn't feel that dreadful sense of oh my gosh I didn't get to do my thing and I don't get to kind of have that hit of like what about me at the end since I've given so much all day because I started the day by taking something for me and then like by 8 p.m or 9 p.m or whatever I'm not like oh but I didn't get to do something.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.319
It's it was like okay I'm tired.
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:50.079
I'm good to go I'm gonna go to bed.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:58.240
Like I didn't have it the emotional side fueling that was gone because I had done that in the beginning of the day for myself, you know?
00:30:58.640 --> 00:30:59.119
Totally.
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:09.839
And do you do you think riding your bike is the the only outlet like I guess in thinking through what you're saying you're not gonna ride your bike every single day.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.720
But at least now you've established a habit where you know that these are probably going to be your best days.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:28.480
So in the days that you don't buy ride your bike, I assume you didn't put in your carry on your trip to Hawaii what becomes your your morning deposit that is investment into yourself and and and your ability to be human.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:44.480
Well I think it kind of will become time zone dependent for people too like you'll have a different experience with half our company being asleep while you're doing your morning with the Eastern time zone and we're a lot of us are mountain time for example.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:32:03.680
Here being on Hawaii time and I I'm six hours behind you it's like okay I'm gonna wake up at like 6 a.m and from 6 a.m to like 11 a.m or 12, I'm gonna go, go, go, go, go all day because everyone's awake doing things, everything's happening.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:21.839
But in this instance like come midday, I can go to the ocean or I can do things in the sun and I'm never going to end the day feeling like wow I didn't have anything today that was you know for me and I didn't live my life today, you know?
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:27.759
But at home I think it was a lot harder because I'm caught in that middle time zone.
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:32.160
There's not like that easily like just carve this out or carve that out.
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:37.039
And you're right, like it's not like I'm gonna ride the bike every day.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:40.319
So I I that's where I don't know yet.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:45.759
Because you know I I I said I struggled for this and that I'm not out of the weeds with this yet.
00:32:46.000 --> 00:33:02.559
But it was crazy because I didn't understand how freeing it was not to feel like that until I rode my bike in the mornings and then like ended the day with like not feeling that feeling.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:02.960
Yeah.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:25.920
And then I was like okay the next day wasn't so bad, you know, and so I'd maybe do it every other day and that's what I did for the two weeks before I I took this uh this trip for the conference but totally I don't know I I think but that's it's what was intriguing is there is a way to kind of not feel like it that I found for myself.
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:35.440
So I'll have to play around with how to expand that to other things than just the one thing that it kind of manifested with, you know Yeah.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:41.039
And you know the importance of that too is something that actually Ben said to us.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:49.119
Every once in a while it's good to leave all the devices including your phone behind and go spend some time outside unplugged and focused on just being in the moment.
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.279
So just leave the phone at home.
00:33:51.519 --> 00:34:07.519
So when you think about that right like I actually I'm a huge pessimist in in in in the idea of of a work from home environment I don't think is healthy at all in general um convenient.
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:20.960
But when you think about it like where we were in the office before 2020 and where we were after the turn of technology with this work from home mandate and COVID and everything and now we can access work 24-7.
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:26.159
Slack's on our phone emails on our phone everyone has our phone numbers easy to call into a video app.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:42.079
It's easy to work from everywhere but also easy to work at all times that puts you in a situation where oh if you're ever, ever have a free second and are close to a phone, a computer, anything well why aren't you working?
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:42.400
Right?
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:54.400
Like that's like kind of psychologically I think where a lot of us are um whether you're ambitious or not ambitious there's still a guilt factor attached to well what could I be doing right now?
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.480
Which I actually think is very unhealthy.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:11.440
But moments where you're riding your bike moments where you're going for a run or a jog, moments where you're swimming moments when you're on a boat and have no cellular service I don't know something like that, right?
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:21.280
In the mountains even like those are moments where you are forced to disconnect or you're forced to have that you time and forced to have that self-reflection time.
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:35.280
And I think it's a lot healthier too for ideation innovation because you're given a lot more space to take the decisions that you're making or to take like even if you're still thinking of work, you're not thinking of it like you can action on it.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.400
You're reflecting on it and you're almost switching your your your point of view.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:51.039
It's not you doing the work it's you observing the idea of you having done the work or doing the work in in in the future which changes your perspective on a lot of um what the actual outcome can be.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:36:17.679
And I'm sure that's therapeutic and and meditative in some sense too in in terms of you riding your your bike I'm sure you get get lost and you love observ observing the mountains but I know I know you and in and I know a hundred percent that work is popping in your mind oh I got a call oh what if I did oh I can do this right like you're thinking about it but you're reflecting on it because you can't do it and it's different that thought process is very very different.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:51.599
Yeah I I think there's a couple things inside of this that are very important too right like one is we're solving a specific problem when we're like okay are we doing that like personal time revenge thing uh with that dreadful feeling or are we kind of depositing into that bank earlier so that we're not left with that I I think that's a very mechanistic problem with potentially even how you design your day and can be solved with some intention.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:37:04.320
And if it's just subtly under the that like nagging little noise but it's not a high enough intensity for you to care about it's dangerous because you just kind of let it go on and on and you never solve it.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:09.599
So I I think that's a good one to solve and put some attention to.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:16.239
But I also think the second thing and and the more important thing is the relationship to the work being done.
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:24.960
I think it's a little bit easier when you're an entrepreneur or in an entrepreneurial environment where you're part of a team that's building something entrepreneurial.
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:41.840
Because the relationship to the work can be this naturally but then if you're not in your very corporate environment then you're kind of at the mercy of like the the bottom line the relationship to the work being a very corporate one.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:52.559
But I think that what I was going to say is the relationship to the work traditionally when you think of work is like let me trade my time for money.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:38:02.880
And you're basically selling your time your lifetime your time is the most precious asset you have and you're selling it for money.
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:12.559
And if you feel that way with the work you're doing or if the work you're doing is of that nature that that's there's no way around that in some sense.
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.480
That's the reality of the situation.
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:21.440
So then you gotta like try to design the best possible trade-off and resourcing and you know routines.
00:38:22.000 --> 00:39:05.119
But when you're building something entrepreneurially you can redefine that relationship to that work because it's not like you're trading your time for money one-to-one the the best way to know how that relationship is playing in my experience is if you had a billion dollars if you had money if you had if money was not a factor it was like constant would you trade your time for what would you spend that time doing the nature of that work right because if you're in a corporate like trade my time for money relationship with your day to day but you had a billion dollars like you would never do that.
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:38.800
Whereas I can honestly tell you that no matter how much money I had right at this moment, I would be doing the things I'm doing independently of that because I am so driven to see through the vision I have for what we are building and what it can do to specifically the industries we're in real estate right now is the most impactful one and then you know we have some other pet projects but like I would not stop no matter how much you paid me.
00:39:39.119 --> 00:41:50.079
And I am so driven to see that through and and that to me is why I don't lose energy if somebody's gonna slack me at 9 p.m like it's not about oh my gosh I'm gonna this was my chill time that I'm now you know not able to fully enjoy because I got to give like I think that root problem if anyone's suffering from that problem is so much bigger to try to get under control and have a more productive healthy serious relationship with their day-to-day and then I think the secondary problem is that like that revenge time thing because I was suffering from that even though I had a very productive relationship to my like fundamentals with my day-to-day and it was because I was just burning that candle too hard and I was not doing enough to to replenish it and I was getting I was like just flirting with burnout like right on the edge right on the edge just and I would push it to the very limit yeah and I just wouldn't refill it you know well that's the other thing burnout's very real right like it doesn't matter how passionate you are about something like if you were tunnel vision for way too long you can work yourself right into a hole that you don't know you're digging to right like I don't know I'm struggling struggling to think of analogy I'm I'm an analogy king but um this one I'm I'm I'm blanking on but um like I I I could even use the the the work from home example and relate it to a little bit of a of a a more human um touch right is is if you're spending your entire day every single day working inside doesn't matter how much you love it and you're staring at screens all day 247 you don't know that there's a sun out there you're not gonna see or feel this moment of relief ah this is building for what like it doesn't allow you to decompress and like big picture things right like um I had to move my car today at like 11 just to make sure it didn't get towed.
00:41:50.239 --> 00:42:21.360
Was able to walk outside walk the 15 minutes or whatever to get my car drive right back to to make sure it was in another spot but oh my God it was the perfect day out the perfect day out but it was a good reminder of like okay there's a lot more to this what am I building for what am I living for a good reminder of just like what it means to be human in essence right like it it it's yeah it's a good reminder to break away from everything no matter how passionate you are about it no matter how much you care about it.
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:45.519
That balance is truly important right um depending on what your release is whether it's going for a walk whether it's going for a bike ride whether it's yeah I don't know maybe I I I struggle to say playing a video game because then you're still inside staring at screens and I don't know that that's actually healthy at all even even if it's your your release right but um there's there's other ways.
00:42:45.840 --> 00:43:53.840
There's other ways and I think finding ways that are more attached to the human side of life to living to existence the what we've kind of referred to as either eating or living or resting or socializing right like all of that recharges the human battery far more far more than um anything that takes you out of your life and out of your head space a little bit yeah that's well said I think it's one of those things too where if I walked out or if I looked out the window and saw like a beautiful sunny summer day but then I was like oh my god I can't enjoy that I'm only gonna work and then I live like that for a while that's kind of what would get me into that like okay you know nighttime rolls around and I'm just wrapping up my work and then I'm like feeling down on myself a little bit like I missed that and I didn't get to experience that.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:58.960
And um I think that's maybe a good analogy to like the bike stuff.
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:12.239
It's like what What if I had gone out for an hour and taken a walk or enjoyed myself and like the beauties of this life a little bit and then came back?
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.639
I'm gonna work the extra hour anyways.
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:23.440
You know, maybe some people wouldn't, and then that's where it becomes a problem because then they're working, you know, five, six hours a day, and you know, maybe that's problematic.
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:32.639
But for for us, it's like if you're gonna work past typical business hours, you have like a deadline to meet, you're gonna do the work's gonna get done one way or another.
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:36.639
Like, what does it matter if you take like 6 p.m.
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:37.920
to 8 p.m.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:42.480
off versus if you took you know 10 a.m.
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:43.519
to 12 p.m.
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.679
off and then work 6 to 8 p.m.
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.280
Like it the time's gonna go to the result either way.
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:55.840
The only time that it doesn't work sometimes is like external meetings with people who during their day have to meet with you.
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:58.559
But but that's not always gonna be the case.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:05.599
And you easily could find time to enjoy those things and then pay it back to your vocation after.
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:06.800
And I don't know.
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.719
The more I do that, the actually like the better I feel about myself.
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:11.840
So I I don't know.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:13.679
That's kind of how I've been solving it.
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.559
Well, analogy king's been thinking of an analogy.
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:22.719
Um so it's very, very similar to the the the slingshot analogy where you have to go back to go forward.
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:32.559
But instead, you know if you take the idea of a of a slingshot and you keep pulling back, keep pulling back, keep pulling back, because you're gonna you have this idea in your head that the more stress, the more pressure, the more energy, right?
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:39.119
Because that's all um what not kinetic energy energy, but it's all stored energy at that point in time.
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.280
I really I gotta potential energy.
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:42.559
Potential energy.
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:43.039
Thank you.
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.119
I gotta go back to to school clearly.
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:50.480
But it the more you pull back, the more you store that potential energy, you think it's going to excel you forward, forward, forward.
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.719
But then if you go too far back and it breaks, you've lost your lost yourself a little bit.
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:01.760
So there's there's there are those moments where you gotta relieve some of that stress and you kind of gotta let it relax because there's longevity to it too.
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:17.360
The more you hold it so far back and uh in this potential energy storage, and the more you give it pressure, the more it actually wears on it to the point where it won't work as well or as fundamentally well and won't slingshot whatever you're you're you're firing much, much further.
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:22.159
You have to relieve that stress and make sure that is always a practice vein, but there's always this push-pull.
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.440
And I like to talk about the pendulum and how it always swings one way and too far one way and too far the other way.
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:35.519
And it's very hard to keep it balanced and in the middle because before you even know you're in the middle, you've you've gone too too far to the other end.
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:41.519
Um, but it's very similar in that vein where you just have to acknowledge, okay, I've brought it back far enough.
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:49.039
I need to relieve some of that stress, let it reset, let myself reset before I start and come back and pull it again.
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:51.199
Um it's real, it's real.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.800
And there's a lot of people that pretend that it's not real.
00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:02.159
Um there's a lot of people that's just like not that are that are superhuman and do things completely differently.
00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.199
Like I don't know how Elon does things the way he does things, but we're not all Elon.
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:11.119
There's one one of those in the world, and we're not them.
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:16.480
Uh matter of fact, ever not not a single person listening to that is is is is is him.
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:19.920
But well, may hopefully maybe, but we'll see.
00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:29.840
Um you can do a lot, but should you?
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.679
And people will think, well, I I have to because that's what's best for the output, and all I care about is the output.
00:47:37.760 --> 00:48:01.360
But I think what what's just not true is like doing more doesn't always mean more output if you get less quality out of the hours and you get less quality out of yourself, especially if you are entrepreneurial or an entrepreneur or impacting an organization like effectively an entrepreneur would.
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:10.239
Like the str the strategy, the quality of decision making, the way you do things matters as much as how much you do.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:12.480
It matters way more than how much you do.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:30.239
And if who you're being is being negatively impacted by your environment or the way you've approached your day and the energy management, well then you're doing your job less effectively because you aren't at your best.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:46.079
And the smaller quantity, higher quality, fewer strategic decisions and things of that nature you do as an entrepreneurial person are so impacted by who you are and how you're showing up.
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:55.920
So that's why it's like, yeah, clearly you shouldn't just only optimize the output on like the amount of quantity of time and nothing else, you know?
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:57.760
Totally.
00:48:58.239 --> 00:48:59.039
Totally.
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:02.480
I think we've had a good conversation here today.
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:11.280
I will take the theme that came out of um Ben's interview and ask you to do something very similar.
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:23.519
So you've talked as someone who's um pushed himself too far, you've talked as someone who's found balances, one balance being funded conference that's in Hawaii that you could sponsor.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:29.199
So you could relax on a beach, go to a luau.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:32.559
Uh, however, yep, there we go.
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:35.920
There's the there's this the sponsored by.
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:43.679
Um gives you time to throw on a uh a funny colored shirt and you know look a little crazy for a day.
00:49:43.920 --> 00:50:02.079
Um if you had to give uh one tip or one reflection to the audience, especially going through each realm you've been through, obviously knowing that you're your realm as uh as a CEO, but as a very driven person, what would that that one tip or takeaway to summarize our conversation today be?
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:19.280
Well, I think for certain would be that remember that because life is a journey and that the journey has so many different points on the way, so many different perils and challenges, you can never overbuy what any one advice is going to be.
00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:21.519
Any one guru is gonna tell you, right?
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:27.760
Because people are gonna tell you things that worked for them on their journey at that particular point in their journey.
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:36.559
And the thing is, like if I gave you advice, that advice would like 99.9% probably not apply to you at that moment.
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:51.679
Um, and so you can't, I I think the advice would be to stop overbuying everyone's advice because it's so specifically solving something that may not 100% apply to where you are.
00:50:51.840 --> 00:51:09.760
And if you just kind of lean in and remember that we're on this journey, then you'll know that you need to deploy your own critical thinking for yourself to solve your own problems because that's your journey, that's your life, that's the beauty you get to have as a human with a life.
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:15.440
So, yeah, just take a lot of advice with a grain of salt in the end.
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:17.440
Great advice.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:18.960
Advice, don't take advice.
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:23.599
I look forward to taking that advice, especially from you and working with you every single day.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:25.519
Crap.
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:28.480
Amazing.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.880
Well, this has been uh a special edition of Built Human today.
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:38.960
Um, hearing from just just Andrew and I as we navigate this this busy world together.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:41.679
Um listen to Built Human wherever you listen.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:49.280
Obviously, our topics span a wide range between AI and tech and and diet and movement and and and wellness.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:54.960
So interested to hear more from our our viewers on what topics you want us to dive deep into.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:01.599
We have uh a long lens and long list of things that we're uh we're tackling on an on an everyday basis.
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:03.840
And we're always open to trying new things too.
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:09.360
So um Yep, again, this has been Built Build Human, and we'll see you next time.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.640
But you got me the way I get everyone else.
00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.360
The five minutes of having achieved the goal is is fun and all, but that's not your life.
00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:10.960
The 30 years before the goal was achieved, that's your life.
00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:13.519
I feel like I know far less despite reading far more.
00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:15.359
I would not stop.
00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.679
No matter how much you pay me.
00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:20.960
Doing more doesn't always mean more output if.
00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:24.640
Welcome to Built Human.
00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:26.879
The world keeps moving faster and faster.
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:30.160
AI and technology are moving more rapidly than ever.
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Yet somehow our health and often our humanity get left behind.
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I'm Andrew Koka.
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This is John Marchetti.
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Welcome to Built Human.
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Today I am on location.
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I'm not in my usual backdrop.
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I am in Maui, Hawaii.
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I know, don't feel sorry for me.
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No, but I'm at a conference now, and of course, can't skip my usual recording time with Marshi.
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So sorry, Marshy.
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Only one of us gets to have this beautiful.
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You can't see it, but there's a nice ocean view over there.
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So excited to get out after this.
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I wouldn't trade anything for Massachusetts.
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That's okay.
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That's okay.
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I feel bad, not that bad.
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Um but yeah, no, it's it's been a while since we've we've uh done a one-on-one podcast.
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I think we started our our uh our episodes and our and our podcast doing this this one-on-one.
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And I think it's been a it's going to be a good um break and bringing some guests on and being able to level set and recap and and see where we are, um the two of us and in these episodes.
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So I actually have a way that I really want to kick this off.
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Um didn't prime you, but Andrew, what does it mean to be human?
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Oh, you got me the way I get everyone else.
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Well, I've had such a good time listening to everyone else telling me what it means to them to be human.
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And to me, I actually haven't thought about it.
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I've just kind of reflected and thought it's so nice to hear everyone else's.
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So I'm gonna give you my raw take.
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Not pre-prepared.
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But I think to be human is to have the capacity to feel specifically love, but in the end, there's this whole emotional journey of humanity.
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It's like one of those um yin and yang, like smiley, sad emojis, like you know, we're we're in this cycle of we we love deeply and then we we feel such pain and sadness deeply, but it's this beautiful dance of life.
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And we have this ability to feel and to perceive and to have this consciousness as humans that other animals and and technology itself, it doesn't have, right?
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It's not about what we do and how we do it.
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It's about who we are and how we feel.
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And if it's similar to me, like if you ask me what I thought the meaning of this life was, I'd probably tell you to to grow, but also to enjoy, you know, to feel, to, to do things that make you happy and fulfilled and full of love and and the vibrancy of life, you know, and like if you asked a if you looked at a dog and you're like, what does it mean to be a dog?
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Like it's not going to necessarily it it doesn't have that capability of that vibrancy of having that cycle of life.
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It just is in the present moment all the time, and it's always just living its stream of consciousness.
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Whereas we, you know, we have this, I live in the past or the future, I try to be present, but I'm going through all these cycles and journeys of the emotion of life.
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And I think that's what I would I I mean, I I think that's probably how I would kick it off is is that.
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You know, it's interesting.
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I think within that that answer, I I have my own perspective, obviously, but I think something that you may have clarified or or dissociated from me in the two trains of thought is you have you you is you essentially do have two trains of thought.
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It's exactly that.
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It's one being human, but two living.
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And both are very different, right?
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Like for in the way you just painted it, what do you mean to be what does it mean to be a dog?
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What does it mean to be human?
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Those are very different.
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But if you twist the argument a little bit more and say, what does it mean to live?
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Um, well, that's very different.
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And and I think par a big part of that is is presence.
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Like you said, don't live in the past, don't live in the future, but be present, be able to enjoy every element that life gives you, whether you believe it's life and you're living it, or it's a simulation, it doesn't matter.
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You can still slow down, enjoy it, and be be happy by engaging with it.
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And then in the same aspects that you think about that for humanity, you can think about that for a dog as well, and how happy a dog is just to be around people and around um, to your point, things and and and people and other other pets that they love.
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So it's very interesting the stark difference between the two.
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That's well said.
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And you know, I I think for a long time when I first got into business life and personal development and professional and personal growth, there was a lot of this idea of how do I better myself to the point where, you know, I'm always in the present moment and I'm always optimizing my habits and routines and my efficiencies.
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And I think part of this beautiful dance of being human is also just understanding that if we were all in the present moment all the time and fully optimized and all you know, all the things that we so desperately strive for, like I don't think we would be human.
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:22.160
I don't think I don't think that that's I mean we would, but I I think part of the beauty of of life is the journey.
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And if we're already all at the end of the journey, you know, when we start the journey, well, okay, you got what you were aiming for, but I I think the being human and the life, like loving life and experiencing life is the journey.
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And it's not the end of the journey that makes the journey what it is, it's the whole journey itself.
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And so, yeah, I one of the fun things that always stuck with me when was when I was like 19, I was in a room with Gary Keller of Keller Williams uh real estate company, and he was doing this thing where he'll like mentor young kids, and I was one of them, and he said people are so focused on their goal, like the end result of that goal.
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But you know, and he was talking about how it he achieved a certain goal.
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Of course, he's a billionaire and built the at the time the largest real estate company in the world, and it was like, well, the 30 years it takes to achieve that goal is your life.
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The the five minutes of having achieved the goal is is fun and all, but that's not your life.
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The 30 years before the goal was achieved, that's your life.
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So it's like, how are you living, right?
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And and how are you making that journey as fulfilling as possible?
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So I don't know, I often think about these things, like and it's it's not to say like don't strive to be better and improve and and have aspirations and all of these things.
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It's just I think we over-index those results sometimes in terms of like how you're living and who you are and what you're feeling and how that matters every moment, you know?
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Yeah.
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And I mean it's the old cliche, it's not about the the destination, it's about the journey, right?
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And I think the journey has to be impactful enough in many ways that um you can wake up and enjoy and compartmentalize that day very differently.
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I think there I'm sure I saw this anecdote on X.
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I'm just such a big X fan.
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I I feel like I only ever talk about X on here whenever I talk about something or reference something.
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Um But there I saw a a tweet or a post the other day that was um comparing how how days pass.
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Um and oftentimes you might be in a routine, but everything within that that routine, though the subject matter may be different, um, is not new.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:11.519
So your brain doesn't store new memories and therefore it lives the day much quicker and time goes by much faster.
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And before you know it, a day is over just as fast as an hour as a minute.
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And that's the same is true for a week or a month or a year, and life just kind of passes you by because you don't open yourself up to new experiences, new challenges, and at the end of the day, new people that that really challenged not only your perspective, but also your way of living.
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:39.360
They want to do it differently with you, but want to show you a different perspective, want to open up your uh your worldview.
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And I think like that's unique to me when we talk about the idea of being human, is you're not just waking up and going through the same routine, but you're acknowledging different experiences every single day so that you can store a new memory, right?
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And I think we often reflect, or humans are are are really good um at reflecting upon uh a period of time and saying, well, what did I accomplish?
00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:04.720
What did I do?
00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:10.159
What was exciting about that um that that time period, what was exciting, excited about this year.
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I mean, we we see it all the time on social media, right?
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With people make year-end recaps, or what's become popular on um Instagram this year is the the month-by-month recaps, or it's a snapshot of what I did in um you know, June, July, August, et cetera.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:35.679
And you have your your month is defined by six to eight photos or six to eight memories, but um is more powerful for those to truly become memories.
00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:57.519
And I think about this frequently because of the post, obviously, but how days blend together, especially when you're not moving to different environments, different locations, talking to uh newer people or doing doing new activities, how how they begin to blend together and how living often becomes harder, right?
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Being human often becomes harder because you're not getting new experiences.
00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:24.159
And even something as simple anecdotally of switching your place of work from home office location to Hawaii recording location, right, can offer you a new memory where it's substantial enough that you're gonna walk away from this in two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, and probably say, like, wow, that conversation sticks out in my head.
00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:29.600
I might not, because my set situation is so similar and familiar, right?
00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:36.720
And so it's interesting to break patterns and how that has an impact on the human psyche, if that makes sense.
00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.759
No, it it does, and it's so interesting.
00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:43.840
It relates kind of to this.
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I made a leadership training program, as you know, for our organization, and for anyone listening who's not familiar, our organization is about 55, I want to say, employees.
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And we a lot of them are in the technology side, you know, building technology products for internal projects or for clients.
00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:17.200
And one of the things in that training was kind of a level set on personal professional development.
00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:26.399
And and it's kind of like what you just said, so much of what we experience becomes subconscious, unconscious patterns.
00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:35.360
Like, for example, if we have so many like billion bits of data and information all around us, how do we filter it all out?
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:47.279
And one of the ways we can do that is those habits that your body will do unconsciously, so that you don't have to put your active focus on those things because it doesn't need your active focus.
00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.279
So we can filter all of that out.
00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.519
Kind of like it's habitual to just tie your shoes or brush your teeth.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.600
Like it's not something you have to put so much active energy into how you're doing it.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:06.000
And so you don't really experience it as actively, kind of like to your point, it just passes quickly and it's habitual.
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:16.960
And we live in so many of these routines and patterns that you're right, it's just maybe it feels like it's all passing by too quickly when you're just stuck in that routine.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:40.080
I think finding those ways to have new information like just hit you, and new experiences is another flavor to how do you live a great life as a human being and not get stuck in this little pattern and routine and go on autopilot, and now your whole life is autopilot, and then you blink and your life's over.
00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:44.960
And I think that's probably the worst nightmare of everyone, right?
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.679
So yeah, new information, new experiences.
00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.600
That's so interesting how that impacts that.
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:54.720
I have a I have an anecdote for this, too.
00:13:55.039 --> 00:14:05.279
Um I love learning about the the tech world and and and tech space, especially in a um AI evolution, right?
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:18.639
This is the the most knowledgeable I've been or most comprehensive I've been for any of the internet revolutions coming from a 90s baby that existed before the internet, probably about the same time.
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.720
I don't know, I don't know, when whenever it came around.
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:28.960
But grow up with with many different phases of the internet, like not having it in your your pocket until like mid-col mid mid-high school, right?
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:37.360
Um but anecdotally, I typically sought out headlines and information that would that I could learn from.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.679
Um so what are trending topics within the the tech space?
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:50.879
Oh, is uh, you know, fintech, uh the the leading topic of discussion this week, what um what are moving markets, things like that.
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:56.639
It's just like a passion of mine to understand the the best of the brightest companies in the world.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:06.399
And what I've recently done is taken an AI automation to pull those headlines together so that I don't have to go looking for them.
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.320
I don't really need to search for them.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:14.320
I just I have the you know the top five headlines or so every single day in my inbox essentially.
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.480
And if I want to learn more, I can expand on it.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:21.519
Just like, you know, ask my AI to uh drill deeper on it, et cetera.
00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:34.480
But what's interesting is I actually feel like I've learned far less despite cutting out the monotonous part that I thought was the um that I thought was a habit, um, that I thought was a routine.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:46.879
But because I'm no longer looking for anything, I don't have to comb down threads that bring me through rabbit holes that help help me identify a true interest, that help me dig deeper on the core solution or the core problem, the core topic.
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.200
Now I just have this list of five headlines.
00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:54.559
I read through the headlines and then I go on and and and you know, start start my work.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.159
And then I look back or I think back to what I read.
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:12.399
I'm like, oh my God, I actually don't know if I can speak to any of this on in in depth enough because it's so automated that it gets to my inbox that my brain just treats it as a standardized task to read through this list and move on.
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:16.879
Now all of a sudden I'm not storing core memory anymore because I'm not curating for myself.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:18.159
I'm just automating.
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:34.799
And it's a very simple thing where I mean when we start to talk about like AI and um and technology and in general and how it can uh swing the pendulum so much further away from AI or from humanity and how we need to just kind of keep it right smack in the middle.
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:39.600
It's one of those things that seems so simple, but for me hasn't been so simple.
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:44.639
For me, it's actually honestly been a been a problem because I feel like I know far less despite reading far more.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:47.919
That's crazy how that works.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:17:00.720
It's it's almost too like, you know, there's an aspect of earned uh earning that knowledge by doing some of that, like you said, rabbit hole, digging through threads.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:12.880
And I I think the more the the information becomes convenient, then maybe the more you're like habitually in that autopilot mode when you're reading it too.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:24.880
And I mean there is an aspect of there's a lot of homogeneous information and there's a lot of information that is presented as news that is also maybe not really news.
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:31.200
It's just the latest spin, the latest flavor, and so I I get a lot of that too.
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:49.759
I I've kind of it was funny, I know we were talking offline about this, but there's some things that you would think I should be up to date on as a tech uh company leader that I actually just don't care to follow because it's become similar to like how back in the day I just stopped watching any of the news.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.880
And so I don't have any of the like Fox CNN, like any of this apps on my phone or on TV.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:12.559
I just kind of shudder when news is on the television because I and and this could be a very cynical perspective, but I've come to kind of just see the sales and everything where it's like everyone's fighting for attention.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:25.759
You know, the the legacy media and news are fighting for attention the way social apps are fighting for attention, meta's fighting for my attention to keep me in the app, and so is X, and everyone wants everyone's attention, man.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:34.000
And it's like I just don't care to give my attention unless I very intentionally decided to.
00:18:34.160 --> 00:19:01.440
And so I kind of just unplug from the headlines, even to the to a fault, maybe sometimes, where it's like, okay, I could have missed, you know, whatever latest AI model was out or how it's being used, and it's like I just kind of have this sense of like I have such limited brain space, and I either know exactly what's important in front of me, or I try to at least.
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:03.839
I don't, I'm not perfect at it, of course.
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:11.359
But then I also have this like, okay, I need to reserve some of it to live my life a little bit and to recharge and enjoy it.
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:21.200
And what'll happen is if I go too deep on consuming some of that information, what'll be sacrificed is not the business stuff.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:28.160
It's actually like my personal quality of life because the business stuff I have to perform as the CEO.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.160
Like I have to make sure everything is accounted for.
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:44.559
So that reserve mental energy I feel I've saved for personal things gets expended right into all this other stuff if I go and actually consume it.
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.240
So, like almost to a fault, I just try not to.
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:57.920
And so in in dinner table conversation or even like semi-professional business conversation where someone's trying to ask me about that, I'm just like, I I I don't know, man.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:10.319
I'm not the I'll go and learn it when I feel it's relevant for me to know, and I'm kind of under a rock when it's not, and there's benefits and drawbacks, but that's kind of my approach right now, you know?
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:17.839
Yeah, and I think like to foster a true learning environment, it used to be you have to act, meaning you you're told something and you go do it.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.359
You told something, you go do it, right?
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:25.039
The same of going to a math class, you're told what your multiplication table is, and then you have to go go do it.
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:26.000
You have to go practice it.
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.640
Same as learning a new skill in in hockey, right?
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.480
You're told how to skate and then you have to go practice it.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.960
You're told how to sit the candle, then you have to go practice it.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:34.880
It's not enough anymore.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:43.920
Um or I should say we actually we've moved further away from the action being the learning device, and now it's just the engagement being the learning device.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.720
So not people be you mentioned earlier, we're in an attention economy.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:57.839
So when everything's trying to take your attention, what you need to be able to do is engage on that topic in order to absorb that topic, then you have the opportunity to act on it.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.720
What I mean by by engage too is right, right, is just to talk about it.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:08.960
Um, so like I don't know, let's let's you you use hockey as as an example, right?
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:16.799
Just because it it seems like trivial enough, and and I think both of us can relate to it, though I've never stick handled a day in my life as a goalie or exhibit A.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:34.079
Um, but if you're you're told this is how you stick handle, you have to then, before you begin to practice stick handling, be able to engage and say, explain to someone else this is how you stick handle, or this is what I understand stick handling to be.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:40.640
And then you've processed it to the point where you're like, okay, I think I now understand the beginning, the middle, the end.
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.680
I know the journey.
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.839
And then you can go outside and stick handle, right?
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:50.480
Like, and it sounds trivial to explain it this way, because in theory, if you're told something, you can just go do it.
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.920
And that is true again, especially probably in this example.
00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:02.720
But because we've moved so far away from focusing on very individual and specific things, we have to slow it down and elongate this learning process a lot more.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.799
I find the same to be true as I mentioned earlier.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:14.480
I get a lot of my information on X, but I'll scroll at night for an hour or two hours, not be able to recap anything.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:27.759
Whereas if I um for instance commute into office and you know, or not into office, it's no office, but if if I take a bus into Bossum and on there for 30 minutes my time window has shrunk.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.559
I've now absorbed at least something I thought I think about it.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.920
I bookmark it for later.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:39.680
I'm able to explain the concept in conversation to whoever I'm working I'm I'm talking to that day as it's become a trend and then I'm able to engage.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:45.599
So now we've taken this very short process, very simple process and needed to elongate it because there's just too much information, right?
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.279
We have to boil it down much simpler.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:48.079
Does that make sense?
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.920
Is this something like that makes sense in general?
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.599
No, it does.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:44.160
It's it's very interesting because I think these are things that have happened so subconsciously too and you're kind of putting words to it and I hope it'd be anyone listening because even for myself it's like it's like we need these ways to kind of shock us back to the present moment and and realize these things we're doing subconsciously so that we can because what's the productive effect of what you just said too it's almost like and now now that I see those mechanics playing out in my day to day how do I then deploy that attention and engagement effectively whether it's for learning or for something else like knowing how this is working under the hood what is then the the next step?
00:23:44.319 --> 00:24:18.960
It's like okay maybe I should change some of my routines maybe I should change some of my habits or I mean in your case what how how do you see this tying back to what you were doing with your AI scraper you'd built like how what are you do you plan to change that because you kind of felt like you were going on autopilot and not getting as much from it like how does that work reading it entirely is now just an automation that runs because I know it doesn't actually do anything for me.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:40.480
And maybe another example too that I I I thought of while you're uh you were you were talking just then especially within the the the construct of built human in in general is like going I'm very bad at going to bed very bad at going to bed.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:25:03.839
But I know exactly why like I'm um I'm bad at going to bed and getting general sleep because I have this um idea of what like revenge um oh what do you call it like revenge uh meet time or something like that personal revenge time something something like that where you feel like you you didn't have enough time to yourself during the day so you might have to spend it at night before you go to bed catching up.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:15.599
But I also acknowledge I'm like okay well if I go to bed earlier that will shift my sleep earlier and I've talked about this on previous pods um and that will mean I'm more focused more energized the next day and I won't get caught in the cycle.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:43.440
But what I don't stop to do is explain to myself well why because I tell myself oh going to bed earlier just means I can get up earlier in my midpoint of my my my sleep become comes early but I don't I don't I don't talk through why well closing my eyes earlier will uh result in me getting to sleep in you know five to ten minutes instead of that two to five minutes or whatever it is for being exhausted for for looking at at X X for an hour.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:43.759
Okay.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:44.720
And then what?
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:56.640
And then that means I'll be more more rested for for the morning because the amount of deep sleep that I can get before um before I wake up is actually far more expanded.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:06.000
And so these are things that that I've seen on the the aura app too where I've tracked and saw my sleep and I think it's after like probably four o'clock I actually don't get any deep sleep at all.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:11.839
I mean I will get some deep sleep but it's not nearly as valuable as if I go to bed earlier and earlier and earlier.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:29.599
Like I will get more deep sleep if I between the hours of 10 and three or in general as as I sleep because I my midpoint of my sleep is typically three and that's midpoint of most people sleep within a circadian rhythm than if I go to bed at at 12 even though I I you know sleep for eight hours or whatever that might be.
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:49.759
So being able to walk myself through the why and understand well it's the amount of deep sleep that I'm able to get and on also REM sleep that I'm able to get that actually changes the way that I wake up well that changes my psychology in terms of well I should just put this down because I could always scroll for the hour in the morning but at least I'll be more alert in the morning and at least I'll be more conscious to make these decisions in the morning.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:58.960
It's these types of things that like completely change the the perspective on again how to solve problems consciously and be human.
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:12.160
You know yeah that's such a I know we didn't know the word for it like the self-revenge of taking time back for enjoyment type of thing but I gotta look it up now.
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:42.079
If you can find the word for that because you know that is something that I resonate with so much with I just fall into this trap I would find of like okay there's so much going on with business where I find my pushing the work hours later and then I'm like well I didn't get to do my things you know I didn't get to watch um whatever TV show or or God I don't know anything personal, right?
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:59.119
And and then I'm like okay well I'm gonna do this even if it's terrible for pushing me beyond when I should have gone to bed and keeping me awake and um you know I'm gonna eat a half a tub of ice cream for bears at like you know 11 p.m because like I want to do that.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:12.559
I didn't get a chance to do that earlier and blah blah blah and it's it's like there's just that sense of wait but if I don't do this I won't have like enjoyed my life and that's not cool.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:20.720
I shouldn't like why am I gonna suffer and it's it was almost like a little emotionally painful in some sense.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:29:43.680
And I and I I suffer from that often and I haven't had it that bad the last month but there probably for like six months there I was just ah I was stuck man I was just and and I'm sure it's gonna ebb and flow but like one of the things that helped me uh recently was I started the mornings when I got my bike um you know we did our podcast with Ben Katz I finally got my bike in I um and so I I would take it out for a ride at like 8 a.m until like 9 30 and those workouts in the hybrid app I I will soon I actually um was just trying to figure out how all the computers and stuff work on these bikes man the new bikes are crazy and so I finally got a little bit of routine down and you can ask our head of marketing but so I I was supposed to get on these calls with they're internal calls with our team and so the team would be kind of like why are your camera off and I'd be driving back from the mountains for my bike ride taking the meeting but at some point I was like no I'm gonna carve out like time for myself even if it bleeds into the beginning of the workday I'm gonna start the day with something that's both you know like a healthy exercise but also something I really want to do.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.240
Obviously I can't ride my bike at like 8 p.m at night like it just wouldn't work.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.599
So it's either like you know do it early, do it late.
00:29:51.839 --> 00:30:08.960
But by doing that, it kind of flipped that kind of emotional bite for me because I had when I flipped it to be the morning and then I did something for myself that kind of like even bled into the business day a bit.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:15.440
But I was kind of withdrawing from that bank instead of depositing it during that time.
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:46.559
It did I didn't near the end of the day even if I would have longer hours like I didn't feel that dreadful sense of oh my gosh I didn't get to do my thing and I don't get to kind of have that hit of like what about me at the end since I've given so much all day because I started the day by taking something for me and then like by 8 p.m or 9 p.m or whatever I'm not like oh but I didn't get to do something.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.319
It's it was like okay I'm tired.
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:50.079
I'm good to go I'm gonna go to bed.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:58.240
Like I didn't have it the emotional side fueling that was gone because I had done that in the beginning of the day for myself, you know?
00:30:58.640 --> 00:30:59.119
Totally.
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:09.839
And do you do you think riding your bike is the the only outlet like I guess in thinking through what you're saying you're not gonna ride your bike every single day.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.720
But at least now you've established a habit where you know that these are probably going to be your best days.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:28.480
So in the days that you don't buy ride your bike, I assume you didn't put in your carry on your trip to Hawaii what becomes your your morning deposit that is investment into yourself and and and your ability to be human.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:44.480
Well I think it kind of will become time zone dependent for people too like you'll have a different experience with half our company being asleep while you're doing your morning with the Eastern time zone and we're a lot of us are mountain time for example.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:32:03.680
Here being on Hawaii time and I I'm six hours behind you it's like okay I'm gonna wake up at like 6 a.m and from 6 a.m to like 11 a.m or 12, I'm gonna go, go, go, go, go all day because everyone's awake doing things, everything's happening.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:21.839
But in this instance like come midday, I can go to the ocean or I can do things in the sun and I'm never going to end the day feeling like wow I didn't have anything today that was you know for me and I didn't live my life today, you know?
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:27.759
But at home I think it was a lot harder because I'm caught in that middle time zone.
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:32.160
There's not like that easily like just carve this out or carve that out.
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:37.039
And you're right, like it's not like I'm gonna ride the bike every day.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:40.319
So I I that's where I don't know yet.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:45.759
Because you know I I I said I struggled for this and that I'm not out of the weeds with this yet.
00:32:46.000 --> 00:33:02.559
But it was crazy because I didn't understand how freeing it was not to feel like that until I rode my bike in the mornings and then like ended the day with like not feeling that feeling.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:02.960
Yeah.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:25.920
And then I was like okay the next day wasn't so bad, you know, and so I'd maybe do it every other day and that's what I did for the two weeks before I I took this uh this trip for the conference but totally I don't know I I think but that's it's what was intriguing is there is a way to kind of not feel like it that I found for myself.
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:35.440
So I'll have to play around with how to expand that to other things than just the one thing that it kind of manifested with, you know Yeah.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:41.039
And you know the importance of that too is something that actually Ben said to us.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:49.119
Every once in a while it's good to leave all the devices including your phone behind and go spend some time outside unplugged and focused on just being in the moment.
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.279
So just leave the phone at home.
00:33:51.519 --> 00:34:07.519
So when you think about that right like I actually I'm a huge pessimist in in in in the idea of of a work from home environment I don't think is healthy at all in general um convenient.
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:20.960
But when you think about it like where we were in the office before 2020 and where we were after the turn of technology with this work from home mandate and COVID and everything and now we can access work 24-7.
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:26.159
Slack's on our phone emails on our phone everyone has our phone numbers easy to call into a video app.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:42.079
It's easy to work from everywhere but also easy to work at all times that puts you in a situation where oh if you're ever, ever have a free second and are close to a phone, a computer, anything well why aren't you working?
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:42.400
Right?
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:54.400
Like that's like kind of psychologically I think where a lot of us are um whether you're ambitious or not ambitious there's still a guilt factor attached to well what could I be doing right now?
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.480
Which I actually think is very unhealthy.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:11.440
But moments where you're riding your bike moments where you're going for a run or a jog, moments where you're swimming moments when you're on a boat and have no cellular service I don't know something like that, right?
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:21.280
In the mountains even like those are moments where you are forced to disconnect or you're forced to have that you time and forced to have that self-reflection time.
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:35.280
And I think it's a lot healthier too for ideation innovation because you're given a lot more space to take the decisions that you're making or to take like even if you're still thinking of work, you're not thinking of it like you can action on it.
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.400
You're reflecting on it and you're almost switching your your your point of view.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:51.039
It's not you doing the work it's you observing the idea of you having done the work or doing the work in in in the future which changes your perspective on a lot of um what the actual outcome can be.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:36:17.679
And I'm sure that's therapeutic and and meditative in some sense too in in terms of you riding your your bike I'm sure you get get lost and you love observ observing the mountains but I know I know you and in and I know a hundred percent that work is popping in your mind oh I got a call oh what if I did oh I can do this right like you're thinking about it but you're reflecting on it because you can't do it and it's different that thought process is very very different.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:51.599
Yeah I I think there's a couple things inside of this that are very important too right like one is we're solving a specific problem when we're like okay are we doing that like personal time revenge thing uh with that dreadful feeling or are we kind of depositing into that bank earlier so that we're not left with that I I think that's a very mechanistic problem with potentially even how you design your day and can be solved with some intention.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:37:04.320
And if it's just subtly under the that like nagging little noise but it's not a high enough intensity for you to care about it's dangerous because you just kind of let it go on and on and you never solve it.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:09.599
So I I think that's a good one to solve and put some attention to.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:16.239
But I also think the second thing and and the more important thing is the relationship to the work being done.
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:24.960
I think it's a little bit easier when you're an entrepreneur or in an entrepreneurial environment where you're part of a team that's building something entrepreneurial.
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:41.840
Because the relationship to the work can be this naturally but then if you're not in your very corporate environment then you're kind of at the mercy of like the the bottom line the relationship to the work being a very corporate one.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:52.559
But I think that what I was going to say is the relationship to the work traditionally when you think of work is like let me trade my time for money.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:38:02.880
And you're basically selling your time your lifetime your time is the most precious asset you have and you're selling it for money.
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:12.559
And if you feel that way with the work you're doing or if the work you're doing is of that nature that that's there's no way around that in some sense.
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.480
That's the reality of the situation.
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:21.440
So then you gotta like try to design the best possible trade-off and resourcing and you know routines.
00:38:22.000 --> 00:39:05.119
But when you're building something entrepreneurially you can redefine that relationship to that work because it's not like you're trading your time for money one-to-one the the best way to know how that relationship is playing in my experience is if you had a billion dollars if you had money if you had if money was not a factor it was like constant would you trade your time for what would you spend that time doing the nature of that work right because if you're in a corporate like trade my time for money relationship with your day to day but you had a billion dollars like you would never do that.
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:38.800
Whereas I can honestly tell you that no matter how much money I had right at this moment, I would be doing the things I'm doing independently of that because I am so driven to see through the vision I have for what we are building and what it can do to specifically the industries we're in real estate right now is the most impactful one and then you know we have some other pet projects but like I would not stop no matter how much you paid me.
00:39:39.119 --> 00:41:50.079
And I am so driven to see that through and and that to me is why I don't lose energy if somebody's gonna slack me at 9 p.m like it's not about oh my gosh I'm gonna this was my chill time that I'm now you know not able to fully enjoy because I got to give like I think that root problem if anyone's suffering from that problem is so much bigger to try to get under control and have a more productive healthy serious relationship with their day-to-day and then I think the secondary problem is that like that revenge time thing because I was suffering from that even though I had a very productive relationship to my like fundamentals with my day-to-day and it was because I was just burning that candle too hard and I was not doing enough to to replenish it and I was getting I was like just flirting with burnout like right on the edge right on the edge just and I would push it to the very limit yeah and I just wouldn't refill it you know well that's the other thing burnout's very real right like it doesn't matter how passionate you are about something like if you were tunnel vision for way too long you can work yourself right into a hole that you don't know you're digging to right like I don't know I'm struggling struggling to think of analogy I'm I'm an analogy king but um this one I'm I'm I'm blanking on but um like I I I could even use the the the work from home example and relate it to a little bit of a of a a more human um touch right is is if you're spending your entire day every single day working inside doesn't matter how much you love it and you're staring at screens all day 247 you don't know that there's a sun out there you're not gonna see or feel this moment of relief ah this is building for what like it doesn't allow you to decompress and like big picture things right like um I had to move my car today at like 11 just to make sure it didn't get towed.
00:41:50.239 --> 00:42:21.360
Was able to walk outside walk the 15 minutes or whatever to get my car drive right back to to make sure it was in another spot but oh my God it was the perfect day out the perfect day out but it was a good reminder of like okay there's a lot more to this what am I building for what am I living for a good reminder of just like what it means to be human in essence right like it it it's yeah it's a good reminder to break away from everything no matter how passionate you are about it no matter how much you care about it.
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:45.519
That balance is truly important right um depending on what your release is whether it's going for a walk whether it's going for a bike ride whether it's yeah I don't know maybe I I I struggle to say playing a video game because then you're still inside staring at screens and I don't know that that's actually healthy at all even even if it's your your release right but um there's there's other ways.
00:42:45.840 --> 00:43:53.840
There's other ways and I think finding ways that are more attached to the human side of life to living to existence the what we've kind of referred to as either eating or living or resting or socializing right like all of that recharges the human battery far more far more than um anything that takes you out of your life and out of your head space a little bit yeah that's well said I think it's one of those things too where if I walked out or if I looked out the window and saw like a beautiful sunny summer day but then I was like oh my god I can't enjoy that I'm only gonna work and then I live like that for a while that's kind of what would get me into that like okay you know nighttime rolls around and I'm just wrapping up my work and then I'm like feeling down on myself a little bit like I missed that and I didn't get to experience that.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:58.960
And um I think that's maybe a good analogy to like the bike stuff.
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:12.239
It's like what What if I had gone out for an hour and taken a walk or enjoyed myself and like the beauties of this life a little bit and then came back?
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.639
I'm gonna work the extra hour anyways.
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:23.440
You know, maybe some people wouldn't, and then that's where it becomes a problem because then they're working, you know, five, six hours a day, and you know, maybe that's problematic.
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:32.639
But for for us, it's like if you're gonna work past typical business hours, you have like a deadline to meet, you're gonna do the work's gonna get done one way or another.
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:36.639
Like, what does it matter if you take like 6 p.m.
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:37.920
to 8 p.m.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:42.480
off versus if you took you know 10 a.m.
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:43.519
to 12 p.m.
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.679
off and then work 6 to 8 p.m.
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.280
Like it the time's gonna go to the result either way.
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:55.840
The only time that it doesn't work sometimes is like external meetings with people who during their day have to meet with you.
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:58.559
But but that's not always gonna be the case.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:05.599
And you easily could find time to enjoy those things and then pay it back to your vocation after.
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:06.800
And I don't know.
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.719
The more I do that, the actually like the better I feel about myself.
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:11.840
So I I don't know.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:13.679
That's kind of how I've been solving it.
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.559
Well, analogy king's been thinking of an analogy.
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:22.719
Um so it's very, very similar to the the the slingshot analogy where you have to go back to go forward.
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:32.559
But instead, you know if you take the idea of a of a slingshot and you keep pulling back, keep pulling back, keep pulling back, because you're gonna you have this idea in your head that the more stress, the more pressure, the more energy, right?
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:39.119
Because that's all um what not kinetic energy energy, but it's all stored energy at that point in time.
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.280
I really I gotta potential energy.
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:42.559
Potential energy.
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:43.039
Thank you.
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.119
I gotta go back to to school clearly.
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:50.480
But it the more you pull back, the more you store that potential energy, you think it's going to excel you forward, forward, forward.
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.719
But then if you go too far back and it breaks, you've lost your lost yourself a little bit.
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:01.760
So there's there's there are those moments where you gotta relieve some of that stress and you kind of gotta let it relax because there's longevity to it too.
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:17.360
The more you hold it so far back and uh in this potential energy storage, and the more you give it pressure, the more it actually wears on it to the point where it won't work as well or as fundamentally well and won't slingshot whatever you're you're you're firing much, much further.
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:22.159
You have to relieve that stress and make sure that is always a practice vein, but there's always this push-pull.
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.440
And I like to talk about the pendulum and how it always swings one way and too far one way and too far the other way.
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:35.519
And it's very hard to keep it balanced and in the middle because before you even know you're in the middle, you've you've gone too too far to the other end.
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:41.519
Um, but it's very similar in that vein where you just have to acknowledge, okay, I've brought it back far enough.
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:49.039
I need to relieve some of that stress, let it reset, let myself reset before I start and come back and pull it again.
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:51.199
Um it's real, it's real.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.800
And there's a lot of people that pretend that it's not real.
00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:02.159
Um there's a lot of people that's just like not that are that are superhuman and do things completely differently.
00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.199
Like I don't know how Elon does things the way he does things, but we're not all Elon.
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:11.119
There's one one of those in the world, and we're not them.
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:16.480
Uh matter of fact, ever not not a single person listening to that is is is is is him.
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:19.920
But well, may hopefully maybe, but we'll see.
00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:29.840
Um you can do a lot, but should you?
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.679
And people will think, well, I I have to because that's what's best for the output, and all I care about is the output.
00:47:37.760 --> 00:48:01.360
But I think what what's just not true is like doing more doesn't always mean more output if you get less quality out of the hours and you get less quality out of yourself, especially if you are entrepreneurial or an entrepreneur or impacting an organization like effectively an entrepreneur would.
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:10.239
Like the str the strategy, the quality of decision making, the way you do things matters as much as how much you do.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:12.480
It matters way more than how much you do.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:30.239
And if who you're being is being negatively impacted by your environment or the way you've approached your day and the energy management, well then you're doing your job less effectively because you aren't at your best.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:46.079
And the smaller quantity, higher quality, fewer strategic decisions and things of that nature you do as an entrepreneurial person are so impacted by who you are and how you're showing up.
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:55.920
So that's why it's like, yeah, clearly you shouldn't just only optimize the output on like the amount of quantity of time and nothing else, you know?
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:57.760
Totally.
00:48:58.239 --> 00:48:59.039
Totally.
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:02.480
I think we've had a good conversation here today.
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:11.280
I will take the theme that came out of um Ben's interview and ask you to do something very similar.
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:23.519
So you've talked as someone who's um pushed himself too far, you've talked as someone who's found balances, one balance being funded conference that's in Hawaii that you could sponsor.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:29.199
So you could relax on a beach, go to a luau.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:32.559
Uh, however, yep, there we go.
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:35.920
There's the there's this the sponsored by.
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:43.679
Um gives you time to throw on a uh a funny colored shirt and you know look a little crazy for a day.
00:49:43.920 --> 00:50:02.079
Um if you had to give uh one tip or one reflection to the audience, especially going through each realm you've been through, obviously knowing that you're your realm as uh as a CEO, but as a very driven person, what would that that one tip or takeaway to summarize our conversation today be?
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:19.280
Well, I think for certain would be that remember that because life is a journey and that the journey has so many different points on the way, so many different perils and challenges, you can never overbuy what any one advice is going to be.
00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:21.519
Any one guru is gonna tell you, right?
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:27.760
Because people are gonna tell you things that worked for them on their journey at that particular point in their journey.
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:36.559
And the thing is, like if I gave you advice, that advice would like 99.9% probably not apply to you at that moment.
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:51.679
Um, and so you can't, I I think the advice would be to stop overbuying everyone's advice because it's so specifically solving something that may not 100% apply to where you are.
00:50:51.840 --> 00:51:09.760
And if you just kind of lean in and remember that we're on this journey, then you'll know that you need to deploy your own critical thinking for yourself to solve your own problems because that's your journey, that's your life, that's the beauty you get to have as a human with a life.
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:15.440
So, yeah, just take a lot of advice with a grain of salt in the end.
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:17.440
Great advice.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:18.960
Advice, don't take advice.
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:23.599
I look forward to taking that advice, especially from you and working with you every single day.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:25.519
Crap.
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:28.480
Amazing.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.880
Well, this has been uh a special edition of Built Human today.
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:38.960
Um, hearing from just just Andrew and I as we navigate this this busy world together.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:41.679
Um listen to Built Human wherever you listen.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:49.280
Obviously, our topics span a wide range between AI and tech and and diet and movement and and and wellness.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:54.960
So interested to hear more from our our viewers on what topics you want us to dive deep into.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:01.599
We have uh a long lens and long list of things that we're uh we're tackling on an on an everyday basis.
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:03.840
And we're always open to trying new things too.
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:09.360
So um Yep, again, this has been Built Build Human, and we'll see you next time.
