What Changes When Leaders Learn to Truly Listen

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Welcome back, Amazing Leaders, to another episode of the Building Leadership Community Podcast.
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I'm your host, coach Dora Mendez.
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Here's a question for you.
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When was the last time someone truly listened to you?
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Not just waiting for their turn to speak?
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Nah. Just nodded while thinking about their response, but actually listened in a way that made you feel heard.
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For today's guest, that distinction sits at the heart of effective leadership.
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Nancy Marmolejoejo is a leadership strategist, keynote speaker, and award winning consultant who has spent more than a decade helping leaders strengthen communication through emotional intelligence, cultural understanding, and empathy.
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Her work is built around a powerful idea when people feel heard, connections grow, engagement changes, and organizations work better.
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Nancy helps leaders move, listening beyond good intentions and turn it into something practical, measurable, and teachable.
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And with her forthcoming book, Heard: Transforming Leadership Through the Power of Listening, she is inviting leaders to think differently about one of the most fundamental skills we have.
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Today, we're talking about what it really means to listen as a leader.
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Now, listening shapes culture and what can change when people know their own voice matters.
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So settle in.
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Join the conversation and let's get started.
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Roll credits.
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Hello and welcome to Building Leadership Community Podcast.
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I'm your host, Dora Mendez.
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I am the founder and CEO of Coach Dora LLC.
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Our guests will be entrepreneurs, small business owners, and community leaders that drive social impact.
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It can be lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to be.
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Thank you for spending some time with us today.
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Whether this is your first episode or you've been part of our community for a while, we're so glad you're here.
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As we always say, it can be lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to be.
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That's the belief that is at the heart of the building leadership community.
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We create these conversations so leaders can learn from one another.
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Grow together and remember that leadership was never meant to happen in isolation.
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Forward it to someone who could use, these lessons today and join us in the comments! We love to hear what resonates with you from the conversation today, we're exploring how communication, listening, and greater self-awareness can make us more effective leaders.
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And sometimes developing those skills means giving others ourselves and others the space and the tools to become more intentional about how we lead other people.
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If you're ready to strengthen your own leadership approach, I have a resource that can help.
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Let's take a quick look.
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Check this out.
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We have some powerful resources to share with you today to transform your leadership by learning how to coach.
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If you're ready to become the leader people trust and follow.
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This is your moment.
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The link is in the description.
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You can get it on our website in our courses tab.
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CoachDoraMendez.com.
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Leadership transformation is right there for you.
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So. Let's.
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Get to it.
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We're going to be bringing our fantastic guests today.
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I'm going to have our guests introduce themselves.
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And I think you're going to get a lot out of it.
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So let's give a round of applause and welcome today's guests.
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Nancy, how are you?
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I love the applause, I do.
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It's so good to be here.
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I'm Nancy Marmolejo, and everybody gets a gold star for saying my last name correctly, so kudos on that.
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And, I'm just really.
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I loved listening to you do the introduction.
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I think there's something about hearing our work said back to us and someone else's words.
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And I was listening, thinking, wow, that person sounds really cool.
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That sounds great.
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Oh, that's me. That's my book.
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So I'm I'm really excited to be here to share this with you and your, your listeners.
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So thank you for inviting me today.
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Nancy, I'm so excited to talk to you.
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I want to first, thank you for your patience, because we've been trying to make this happen for a while, and it's so interesting.
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We met in an online community like this show is all about building community, and we met in community.
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We met at Lean Latinas, and then we followed each other.
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Like, we just began following each other.
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And we share.
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I wanted to share for our listeners and our viewers that were on Substack, and we fall.
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We've been following each other on Substack, and I get so inspired by your work.
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And I think that our listeners and our viewers are going to be so inspired by your story.
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So let me pass the, the mic to you, and I'd love to hear your leadership story.
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Share, share your leadership story.
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What would you like to share with our community?
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I think it has to start when I was 13 years old and my my weekends were taken away from me.
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My dad had a business and I had to go to work for him.
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And it was every Saturday and Sunday you get there at like eight in the morning, and I'd work there till about 4:00.
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And, and my older and the youngest of six kids.
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And when you have a big family and a family business, everybody starts working at a certain point.
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I was the spoiled one because I didn't have to start until I was 13, when my sisters were like nine and ten years old.
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They were like at the cash register, ringing things up.
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And it was that experience of just not necessarily even being trained in leadership, but being thrown into situations where you have to make decisions and you have to interact with people and you have to, you know, just be aware of how you're acting and how that's coming across to the people you're working with and the public that you're working with.
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And really, it started there, you know, and going on through life, it seemed like whatever I did for a living, I was a teacher for many years.
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And, you know, who wants to be on this committee?
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Who wants to be on that committee?
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I, I raised my hand because I was always learning something.
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The the leadership would sometimes stress me out because I originally I didn't know how to, really, regulate what I was saying yes to.
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I'd say yes too many to too many things.
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So I learned that leadership is not about saying yes to everything.
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And then I started a business in the early 2000s, and I've had it ever since.
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And that has been a huge, huge opportunity to develop leadership in both the people that I work with.
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Team members.
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Colleagues, collaborators and, and just, you know, building this incredible, incredible life that seems to stem around leadership.
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Nancy, there's something that you said that really struck me, that leadership isn't always about saying yes.
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And, that that strikes me a lot because I find that there's like this leadership trap where we because when people gravitate towards you and I know people gravitate towards you, Nancy, because I know I certainly have.
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And I'm really excited to talk more about your book.
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And before we get dig into that, I just want to say, like the like the leadership trap, like because people come to you, you almost like, don't want to let them down, right?
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So like because they because you can tell like, wow, you're just be yourself.
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You're doing your thing.
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You're making decisions.
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And people like really respect you.
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And they come to you and they're and they ask you for stuff.
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All the time.
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You don't want to let them down.
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And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on like how how do you manage that?
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Because, it's hard to say no when people, you know, when you don't want to let people down.
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So I would love, like, just also for myself because I find that I have that, issue.
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Like, sometimes I feel like it's really hard to say.
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No, that happens.
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And, you know, they say if you want something done, ask a busy person.
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And I have been that busy person.
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It's in this last year, especially working on the book.
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I have shut a lot of things down in my life where I used to just give my time freely to organizations and causes and groups and whatnot, and then all I had left for me were the crumbs.
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And leadership isn't about just, you know, giving it all away, giving all your energy away.
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It's really about having an eye on everything and being able to see what's mine to do and what is best if somebody else does it.
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And there are times when you don't say yes and it's very uncomfortable.
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Everyone's uncomfortable.
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They're they're looking at you because they want you to come in and save the day.
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It's like, oh, can't Dora just come in and do it?
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Can't Nancy just come in and do it?
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Because we trained them to expect us to do it.
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But you step back and say, I'm just not going to be able to do it.
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And eventually usually doesn't take too long.
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Somebody will say, I'll do it.
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And in stepping back and letting somebody new come in and say yes to it, I learned so many things.
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I like the way they're doing it.
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They thought of something that I hadn't thought of or it brings a different energy, a new take.
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Rarely is it awful, you know, sometimes it is.
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But I'll say on the majority of the times it turns into something that is innovative.
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And because now I've seen some things just, you know, go down in flames like, oops, I'm sorry.
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But it's okay to make mistakes.
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Like I try to tell like my team.
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Like it's okay to make mistakes, you know, like it's not the worst thing.
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I'd rather than try something new or like, try and, what I started doing with that in that respect, which just like letting go instead of saying no, I started, asking people to take turns.
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Oh, nice.
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Like, let's all go around.
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Let's like, kind of take turns and then every, every meeting there's going to be a different person taking the, the lead so that people on the team, feel a little, less dependent on me, you know, for to lead to lead.
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And so that's like something I, that's something I had started to is, is new something new that, that, I'm trying so but the fact that you raised that, like, organically, like it's not always about saying yes really resonated with me because I'm trying something new.
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I'm trying to be less.
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I'm trying to like, be more open and, and and I love that what you said, if you want to get something done, ask, busy person.
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You know, it's like that.
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Part of it is I think it's really important to understand who has what strengths.
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My ideal form of leadership is being like, Ocean's 11 and everybody's an expert in their field.
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The safecracker and the, you know, the the person who does this and.
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For, for some of the younger listeners and viewers, that's Ocean's 11.
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There are two versions.
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There's the Frank Sinatra with the Rat Pack, and then the Sandra Bullock version.
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And it's actually Oceans Eight.
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That there are so inviting you all to be in a life of crime.
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But what I am inviting you to be the life of expertise is each person on the team was brought there because they were great at something and there was no overlap.
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So you stay in your lane, you stay in your lane and then at the end of the day, boom, we just accomplished something great.
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And I think that when people understand their strengths, I do a lot of work around having people understand their strengths, like then do that, don't come over here and try to do this thing that you're not good at.
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Because many years ago, there was a firm that I worked with that did an assessment, and the head of that firm said that when you work outside of your strengths, it uses up ten times the energy.
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Then when you're working in your strengths.
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So, sure, I can finish that spreadsheet for you and do all that stuff.
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But that kid, that is not my strength.
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I will be exhausted at the end of it, and there will not be much left for me to do.
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And I think that's one of the things when you say yes to too many things, if you're saying yes to things that are not in your area of strengths, that is going to bite you in the end.
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That's great.
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That's great.
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That's great advice.
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And actually a good segue, because the whole Ocean's 11, Ocean's eight, where there's like a diversity of skills that and they play to the strengths.
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And it's an it I hope our I'm pretty sure our listeners and viewers are, sophisticated enough to know that we're not inviting them to crime.
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We're using it as an example of how of good teamwork.
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Right.
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So that's a great segue about community, because here at the Building Leadership Community podcast, we really started this because I went from being a leader, at a really big organization.
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And I had an assistant and I had department, and then I went to starting a business, and I was lonely.
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It was it was it was a I became a solopreneur.
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And then I was like, how do I connect with people?
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And I said, I'm just, I'm going to start this podcast.
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I don't know if anyone's going to listen.
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Fortunately, people have, and I just wanted to connect and, and build a community to, like, help me, but also help others and learn from others.
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So what does community mean to you?
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How did you define who.
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You were talking?
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I was just thinking about there's you naming things.
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There's so many layers to it.
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You know, there's not one way.
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So I think, you know, first of all, the community that we live in, who's in our community, who are our neighbors, what are our institutions that are around us, and how are we connected to those?
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I have made a concerted effort, in the last year to utilize public libraries more than ever.
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And I find so many things like our libraries here, I live in in Oakland, California, you can get seeds from the library, you can get baking equipment, you can get tools, and you can get books.
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And I went to a free sound bath at the library.
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So those are for me.
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Community is like thriving in the institutions and organizations and public spaces all around us.
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That's one part of it.
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And then the other.
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I love it.
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I love it, I just want I want to pause there.
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I want to let you get to your other part, but I just want to highlight bibliotecas as all over the world, okay.
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This is where it's, we.
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We actually do the same here for our children.
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Folks who listen to the show know that, my podcast co-producers, my husband and we have two kids who have hosted the show, Nancy.
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So if you haven't seen the episode where our kids host, they they mimicked us.
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They watch us do the show, and then they said, we want to do a show, and we let them.
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They did the script, everything.
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We didn't tell them what to say.
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And it was fantastic.
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And we love public libraries.
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For your.
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Story, you know that we're kindred.
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Spirits and, it we're in New York, we're in New York State, and we love, we especially first we did it for our kids, but then we found that it just made our lives easier to do.
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And as a solopreneur, you're working at home a lot.
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It's a great space to go to do work and like just to get out and like, see other people and get out of your environment.
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So, shout out to public libraries and you can get you can get free e-books and hopefully our books will be in the public library, too.
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Nancy was, You know, just coincidentally, the day before yesterday, I spontaneously went to this library in Mill Valley, California, which is north of the Golden Gate Bridge.
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It is one of the most beautiful libraries you've ever been to.
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It's nestled in a redwood grove overlooking a creek, and it has these floor to ceiling windows where you sit in a leather chair overlooking redwoods in a creek.
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And you can read a book and you can do a thing.
00:20:41.306 --> 00:20:46.411
And then there happened to be a lecture going on, and I'm like, oh, it was just this magical day.
00:20:46.678 --> 00:20:48.212
And I said, this is, this is so good.
00:20:48.212 --> 00:20:51.682
So that's community from the larger aspect.
00:20:52.483 --> 00:21:01.326
But then kind of going in the circle, you know, then there was the, the, the communities that we have our, our, our industry are our peers.
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:06.932
So I'm friends with all these other consultants, leadership coaches, you know, you and I, we're kindred spirits.
00:21:07.465 --> 00:21:13.305
I don't say like, oh, you might I can't I can't let you get that to that person because you're going to steal a client from me.
00:21:13.305 --> 00:21:14.673
It's like, oh gosh, you're kidding.
00:21:14.673 --> 00:21:18.876
We get to know each other, find out who who do you do business with?
00:21:19.176 --> 00:21:20.444
Oh, who do you do business with?
00:21:20.444 --> 00:21:23.248
The next thing you know, we start referring things to each other.
00:21:23.248 --> 00:21:25.116
So to me that's a level of community.
00:21:25.483 --> 00:21:29.054
And then there's also people where I am at this stage in life.
00:21:29.488 --> 00:21:39.131
There are a lot of folks who are up and coming, and I don't know, I'm like the frontier or something, but there's a lot of folks who are a bit younger and they're like, want to talk to me?
00:21:39.298 --> 00:21:44.670
And I'm, I think because I'm open minded and nothing's weird to me, I'm just like, oh, that's cool, let's do it.
00:21:44.670 --> 00:21:47.873
And that gives people some hope.
00:21:47.873 --> 00:21:53.744
They feel seen and and so I'm on all these different layers of community.
00:21:53.778 --> 00:21:58.083
I was a volunteer coordinator in my at my spiritual community.
00:21:58.349 --> 00:22:01.353
And I would just say, okay, how much time do you have?
00:22:01.353 --> 00:22:02.788
Or what do you know how to do?
00:22:02.788 --> 00:22:08.626
And there was a woman, there is a woman, and she has multiple sclerosis, and her mobility is limited.
00:22:09.060 --> 00:22:10.662
And she's like, I want to find a way to volunteer.
00:22:10.662 --> 00:22:11.563
And I said, you know what?
00:22:11.563 --> 00:22:15.299
We need somebody to remind the volunteers to show up for their volunteer work.
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:16.701
She's like, I got you.
00:22:16.701 --> 00:22:26.478
So her nickname is The Human Reminder, and she messages and people show up in the right place at the right time because of our human reminder.
00:22:26.778 --> 00:22:31.849
And it was just simply finding out how how much time and what can you offer.
00:22:32.384 --> 00:22:34.786
And, you know, little things like that.
00:22:34.786 --> 00:22:38.690
I just feel like everybody can be a part of a community.
00:22:38.690 --> 00:22:45.262
When we think in an inclusive way, and we look again at people's strengths and, and just build from that.
00:22:45.262 --> 00:22:58.309
I've seen miraculous things happen as a result of people identifying something that they're good at, sharing it with the world, sharing it in the work that they do, sharing it in the way that they show up in their in their local communities.
00:22:58.309 --> 00:23:00.112
It's it's beautiful.
00:23:00.345 --> 00:23:03.848
I love the way you think about community as layers.
00:23:06.050 --> 00:23:16.595
And it's sort of segue, as you mentioned, young people, younger people than yourselves, than yourself.
00:23:16.595 --> 00:23:22.099
So that's a great segue into our conversation.
00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:23.634
Prompt.
00:23:23.634 --> 00:23:36.615
What would you tell your younger self, what advice, you know, do you think the next generation of leaders would glean from you?
00:23:37.516 --> 00:23:42.019
Maybe something you would go back and tell your younger self, oh.
00:23:42.820 --> 00:23:44.623
I mean, how much time do you have?
00:23:44.923 --> 00:23:52.096
Because one thing, why don't you just pick one nugget like some, like one nugget.
00:23:52.830 --> 00:23:53.265
Yeah.
00:23:53.265 --> 00:23:56.401
I think that it's safe to be.
00:23:57.803 --> 00:24:03.808
I feel that there are for, for every generation, there's always that insecurity growing up.
00:24:03.808 --> 00:24:05.777
There's like, too much.
00:24:06.211 --> 00:24:09.748
Or if I show the real me, people won't like me.
00:24:10.048 --> 00:24:25.230
And then I see how especially like around some Gen Z and Gen Alpha, this whole concept of cringe like doing something awkward and being publicly recognized for your awkwardness, that is the biggest fear.
00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:28.333
And what I see happen is it holds people back.
00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:31.336
It holds people back from saying or doing something.
00:24:32.069 --> 00:24:42.247
I met with this educator, does research in the schools, and she was telling me how, you know, these kids are sitting in the classroom and they don't know their classmates.
00:24:42.513 --> 00:24:44.682
They don't know their classmates names.
00:24:45.083 --> 00:24:53.157
They're afraid to even form friendships because this fear of being cringing like, oh, what if I say or do something?
00:24:53.157 --> 00:24:57.328
And then it turns out they film me, and then the whole world sees how, you know, awkward.
00:24:57.328 --> 00:25:04.836
I am, I, I want to go and give each one of them a big hug and say, you know, I want I want to create a safe space.
00:25:04.836 --> 00:25:18.282
I love the fact that a lot of schools have banned phones now, but I look back at myself and I think even without social media, even without cell phones, there was always that fear of just stepping out and doing something.
00:25:18.549 --> 00:25:21.152
And and at a certain point, I finally did.
00:25:21.853 --> 00:25:30.261
And it gave me the sense of freedom that I didn't have to conform to the things that other people were bound by.
00:25:30.394 --> 00:25:34.065
I was I became a big nonconformist in my in my teenage years.
00:25:34.065 --> 00:25:35.232
I kind of became known for that.
00:25:35.232 --> 00:25:37.035
And I've stuck with it the whole way.
00:25:37.201 --> 00:25:40.372
And I really feel like that is a sense of freedom.
00:25:40.905 --> 00:25:51.482
And it takes a lot of courage to, because not everybody's going to like what you're doing, and you might have a few side eyes, but hey, you're free, you're happy.
00:25:51.950 --> 00:25:53.451
I think we all deserve that.
00:25:53.451 --> 00:26:00.825
I think that's great advice for, every for everyone, for all generations, for everyone.
00:26:00.825 --> 00:26:02.626
And it's safe to be you.
00:26:03.595 --> 00:26:09.334
And that's the whole thing about being authentic and authenticity.
00:26:09.334 --> 00:26:15.406
I know it's like, overused buzzword, but there's, It's so funny.
00:26:15.406 --> 00:26:19.477
You mentioned cringe because we have two gen alphas in our house.
00:26:21.546 --> 00:26:24.615
And, I just, I love it.
00:26:24.615 --> 00:26:28.819
I think, that's a that's some great, observation.
00:26:28.819 --> 00:26:35.527
So I'd love for you to share. Now, I love to go back to your book.
00:26:35.527 --> 00:26:42.901
So, what is it that you, you know, want to share about your book?
00:26:42.933 --> 00:26:44.234
Tell us about it.
00:26:44.234 --> 00:26:54.144
Tell us, how people can get it, how people can get in touch with you, follow you, and learn more about your philosophy.
00:26:55.180 --> 00:27:09.059
Well, I am, it's not published yet as of this interview, and I really, Please praying to the book gods that I can just finish it because there's some days, I have the whole thing written, but I'm just this never ending fine tuner.
00:27:09.493 --> 00:27:13.263
But it's called her transforming leadership through the power of listening.
00:27:13.530 --> 00:27:25.376
And the reason why I'm writing a book about listening is because for many, many years I have worked with solopreneurs and small businesses, medium sized businesses, large organizations, leadership teams.
00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:32.651
And no matter what we're doing, no matter what we're working on, whether it's people, skills, even branding, there's some.
00:27:32.851 --> 00:27:34.719
The common thread is listening.
00:27:35.153 --> 00:27:40.125
Listening to another person, listening to feedback, really being present.
00:27:40.125 --> 00:27:52.470
And I thought, oh, if I could find the one thing that sort of like at the the origin, at the source of everything, you know, you, you change that thing at the source and it's going to change all of those other things.
00:27:52.470 --> 00:27:57.442
So rather than teach ten things, how about if I teach one that impacts those ten things?
00:27:57.709 --> 00:27:59.144
And that's listening.
00:27:59.144 --> 00:28:01.746
My framework for listening is pretty simple.
00:28:01.746 --> 00:28:02.980
It's based on three things.
00:28:02.980 --> 00:28:05.150
And I like short frameworks.
00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:09.721
I don't want the eight letters that I have to memorize a word, and then I forget what each letter stands for.
00:28:09.721 --> 00:28:11.522
Three things easy.
00:28:11.789 --> 00:28:13.258
And it's the heard framework.
00:28:14.224 --> 00:28:16.060
Underneath it all is self-awareness.
00:28:16.428 --> 00:28:19.798
So I'm going to just say self-awareness is the key to all of this.
00:28:19.798 --> 00:28:23.134
But the three steps are what number one presents.
00:28:23.667 --> 00:28:25.069
How present am I?
00:28:25.069 --> 00:28:27.872
Am I distracted?
00:28:25.069 --> 00:28:27.872
Am I talking to you?
00:28:27.872 --> 00:28:32.009
But then I'm looking at my phone or I have a meeting in five minutes.
00:28:32.009 --> 00:28:34.846
So I'm actually thinking about that meeting I'm supposed to be in.
00:28:34.846 --> 00:28:36.980
And your mouth is moving and you're talking and I'm.
00:28:37.015 --> 00:28:38.048
I'm not even here.
00:28:38.048 --> 00:28:45.856
I've checked out the self-awareness piece to say is noting that what can I do to eliminate distractions?
00:28:45.856 --> 00:28:55.633
What can I do so I can be fully present in this moment, even if it's one minute for one hour, and then the next piece in the framework is patience.
00:28:55.633 --> 00:28:59.203
And this is the one I'm going to say, I teach this, but I'm not perfect at it.
00:28:59.203 --> 00:29:02.373
It's like if I were a personal trainer, I still need to go to the gym.
00:29:02.373 --> 00:29:03.741
I still need my protein.
00:29:03.741 --> 00:29:05.210
I just can't tell you what to do.
00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:07.010
I have to practice it as well.
00:29:07.244 --> 00:29:08.346
Patience.
00:29:08.346 --> 00:29:12.616
Because I grew up in this big family and we're all like talking at the same time.
00:29:12.750 --> 00:29:15.153
We would talk over each other, we'd interrupt each other.
00:29:15.153 --> 00:29:16.688
Hurry up, finish your story.
00:29:17.821 --> 00:29:19.423
That doesn't work everywhere.
00:29:19.423 --> 00:29:20.458
So the patience.
00:29:20.458 --> 00:29:22.259
Let somebody finish what they're saying.
00:29:23.728 --> 00:29:25.997
You. I said it earlier during the introduction.
00:29:25.997 --> 00:29:26.730
Like you.
00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:28.732
Are you thinking about your answer?
00:29:28.732 --> 00:29:31.536
While some that is talking, you're not even listening.
00:29:31.536 --> 00:29:35.940
But you want them to hurry up so you can come in there and say what you want to say.
00:29:36.807 --> 00:29:39.844
And then the last one is really about phrasing.
00:29:39.844 --> 00:29:41.546
What are the words that you're using?
00:29:41.546 --> 00:29:43.347
How are those words welcoming?
00:29:43.381 --> 00:29:49.520
Are you using words that open people up so that the conversation is richer, or are using words that shut people down?
00:29:49.788 --> 00:29:54.392
Somebody comes to you with a challenge, say, God, I really, really struggling with this thing.
00:29:55.192 --> 00:29:57.362
You don't know what they need.
00:29:57.362 --> 00:30:01.031
All they did is they told you that they're struggling with something.
00:30:01.231 --> 00:30:10.307
So are they asking you for a fix or are they asking you for, to just listen to them vent?
00:30:10.775 --> 00:30:12.576
You know, you have to find out.
00:30:12.576 --> 00:30:15.246
And that's part of the phrasing is ask a question.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.017
Ask the question like, well, do you need to be helped or do you need to be heard?
00:30:19.349 --> 00:30:21.419
That is game changing.
00:30:21.419 --> 00:30:22.420
And people think.
00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:26.324
I mean, I take leaders through this as a training, and at the end of it, they're like.
00:30:28.526 --> 00:30:30.428
I've spent so many years just trying to fix people.
00:30:30.428 --> 00:30:33.064
I never even thought to find out if they needed to be heard.
00:30:33.330 --> 00:30:35.133
It's like day one.
00:30:35.232 --> 00:30:36.601
Rest of your life starts today.
00:30:36.601 --> 00:30:39.103
Right now we all, we're all works in progress.
00:30:39.136 --> 00:30:39.403
Dora.
00:30:39.403 --> 00:30:40.538
That's my that's my motto.
00:30:40.538 --> 00:30:41.739
I'm going to say that over and over.
00:30:41.739 --> 00:30:43.540
We are all works in progress.
00:30:43.842 --> 00:30:49.113
Yes. And and being a work in progress means some days we're going to do better than others.
00:30:49.113 --> 00:30:51.782
We're continuously learning and improving.
00:30:52.517 --> 00:30:54.551
Whoever's thinks they're done learning.
00:30:55.252 --> 00:30:55.920
I'm sorry.
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.521
Sometimes I need to break it.
00:30:57.521 --> 00:30:59.022
Yeah. They call that narcissism.
00:30:59.022 --> 00:31:02.460
No, I oh, I, throw.
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:03.694
In the game.
00:31:03.694 --> 00:31:07.397
But I just want to, I want to say the three.
00:31:07.832 --> 00:31:10.134
The three. PS, I love your framework.
00:31:10.134 --> 00:31:14.372
So it's, I just want to repeat it for listening.
00:31:15.173 --> 00:31:15.373
Yeah.
00:31:15.373 --> 00:31:20.811
So it's presence, present patience, pace, phrasing.
00:31:20.811 --> 00:31:22.380
Phrase I. Love it.
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:23.981
I think that's it's the we.
00:31:25.717 --> 00:31:27.919
You took the listening essentials quiz.
00:31:27.919 --> 00:31:29.253
I think.
00:31:29.253 --> 00:31:29.586
Did it.
00:31:29.586 --> 00:31:31.455
Oh I did I did okay.
00:31:31.455 --> 00:31:36.827
So at Heard leadership.com there's a little quiz and it asks you like some questions.
00:31:36.827 --> 00:31:38.596
And they're all on those three topics.
00:31:38.596 --> 00:31:43.034
And at the end of the quiz people get a score on each of those areas.
00:31:43.034 --> 00:31:45.103
So you can say, oh, I'm so good at phrasing.
00:31:45.103 --> 00:31:47.070
Oh, I'm not so good at patience.
00:31:47.372 --> 00:31:49.007
And then you get an overall score.
00:31:49.007 --> 00:31:53.344
And that's something that people people have had so much fun taking that.
00:31:53.344 --> 00:31:57.214
And sometimes they hang their head low and go, oh, I got the worst score.
00:31:57.214 --> 00:31:58.816
It's like you're human.
00:31:58.816 --> 00:32:01.118
There's no wrong answer, though in that, right?
00:32:01.118 --> 00:32:12.029
There's no it's just it's really just like to help, your compass, like, set a compass for, like, where you want to go, like where you want to reach.
00:32:12.029 --> 00:32:14.132
So there's no real wrong answers.
00:32:14.798 --> 00:32:17.969
But, so I guess that's a good segue.
00:32:17.969 --> 00:32:18.635
So tell.
00:32:18.635 --> 00:32:20.438
Yeah, tell us a website.
00:32:20.837 --> 00:32:23.441
Tell us how you want people to keep in touch with you.
00:32:23.441 --> 00:32:25.009
How do you want them to follow you?
00:32:25.009 --> 00:32:26.810
How can they connect with you?
00:32:26.944 --> 00:32:27.444
Okay.
00:32:27.444 --> 00:32:31.548
And you named a whole bunch of different spots that you and I know each other.
00:32:31.548 --> 00:32:34.719
It used to be you can say one thing and now there's like a thousand.
00:32:34.719 --> 00:32:44.295
So, if you go to HeardLeadership.com and take the quiz, take the quiz and finish the quiz, it takes like three minutes.
00:32:44.295 --> 00:32:47.798
Sometimes people do question at one and they, don't take this finished.
00:32:47.798 --> 00:32:48.766
Take the quiz.
00:32:50.101 --> 00:32:54.672
You know, drop your name and email in it and it'll send you out some tips.
00:32:54.939 --> 00:33:01.011
It'll send you a PDF of all of your results with some action steps, and then it'll help us stay in touch.
00:33:01.011 --> 00:33:02.814
So that's one good way.
00:33:02.814 --> 00:33:03.614
LinkedIn.
00:33:03.614 --> 00:33:05.482
I'm on LinkedIn, I love LinkedIn.
00:33:05.482 --> 00:33:16.794
So LinkedIn.com mi and slash my name Nancy Marmolejo and Marmolejo is spelled M-A-R-M-O-L-E-J-O.
00:33:17.127 --> 00:33:18.663
That's my LinkedIn.
00:33:18.663 --> 00:33:19.998
I'm writing on Substack.
00:33:19.998 --> 00:33:24.102
You could just search Nancy Marble, Lego and you'll find me, because that's probably the easiest way.
00:33:24.167 --> 00:33:31.275
And I recently started an Instagram account for Heard Leadership, and it's called HeardLeadership.
00:33:31.576 --> 00:33:33.845
Just kind of putting a few things out there.
00:33:33.845 --> 00:33:37.981
And that's herd, as in listening that “Herd” as in cattle.
00:33:38.583 --> 00:33:40.550
H-E-A-R-D.
00:33:40.550 --> 00:33:52.462
Yeah, I always, I always tell people“Heard H-E-A-R-D” not you know, it's funny because, the transcripts for these videos, it wants to make it “Herd of cattle” and it never gets my name right.
00:33:52.462 --> 00:33:58.603
So I'm if if the if the captions are incorrect, everybody just know that it's H-E-A-R-D.
00:33:58.736 --> 00:34:00.203
That's how we spell it. So.
00:34:00.203 --> 00:34:02.272
Yeah. So that was me.
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:05.343
Spell it and making us spell it.
00:34:06.243 --> 00:34:08.880
So. Okay, AI make sure you get it right?
00:34:09.047 --> 00:34:10.514
Right.
00:34:10.514 --> 00:34:11.581
Teach I teach that.
00:34:11.581 --> 00:34:12.516
Teach the bots.
00:34:12.516 --> 00:34:23.894
Well, Dora, come on, But what I what I find with these with, with everywhere I am, whether it's on Substack, whether it's on Instagram or LinkedIn, whatever.
00:34:23.894 --> 00:34:28.266
I want things that are very usable and practical.
00:34:28.565 --> 00:34:33.438
And I also understand that this isn't like people will say, oh, I read a book about listening.
00:34:33.438 --> 00:34:39.110
I don't really need to talk to Nancy or oh, I they send us to a training and it's like, yeah, well, you know what?
00:34:39.242 --> 00:34:41.045
You're supposed to eat this much protein every day.
00:34:41.045 --> 00:34:45.248
It's not like, oh, I ate a, I ate 30g of protein, like five years ago.
00:34:45.248 --> 00:34:46.650
I never have to do it again.
00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:52.090
This is daily practice and I teach it and I need to work on it.
00:34:52.657 --> 00:35:03.701
And so I want to invite people to look at this as a practice, as a practice and self-awareness, and three areas where you can focus your self-awareness.
00:35:03.701 --> 00:35:05.369
And it changes things.
00:35:05.369 --> 00:35:10.141
It changes the relationships at work, it changes the dynamics at work.
00:35:10.141 --> 00:35:15.612
And then everybody calls me up and says, I tried this with my partner.
00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:17.414
I tried this with my kids.
00:35:17.414 --> 00:35:20.251
It's like, okay, how about it?
00:35:20.717 --> 00:35:24.088
That's, that's great feedback that you're getting.
00:35:24.088 --> 00:35:27.925
And, I'd love to know.
00:35:29.293 --> 00:35:34.431
I mean, you shared with us why listening, why you're focusing on one thing.
00:35:35.632 --> 00:35:39.769
And, I'd love for you to share just a little bit more.
00:35:39.769 --> 00:35:44.307
I just just like, I know what people will.
00:35:44.541 --> 00:35:46.344
People. One of the.
00:35:46.577 --> 00:35:57.054
Would you like to share one of the clearest ways a leader can communicate that, that they are genuinely listening?
00:35:57.420 --> 00:36:01.826
Shut down the screen, close the laptop, put the phone face down.
00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:03.594
That's it. Phone down.
00:36:03.594 --> 00:36:05.663
Focus. Start with that.
00:36:05.663 --> 00:36:10.601
That is the easiest place you can start because it's physical and you can do it.
00:36:11.068 --> 00:36:21.478
And there are other things that you can do, but that if you were to start on one thing, our devices have created so many distractions and there's a whole chapter on the neuroscience of listening.
00:36:21.711 --> 00:36:24.282
We we are addicted to our devices.
00:36:24.282 --> 00:36:28.818
That dopamine response of notification like, oh, I got to check my phone and see.
00:36:28.818 --> 00:36:29.820
I gotta check my phone.
00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:30.588
Oh, I heard a ding.
00:36:30.588 --> 00:36:31.922
I wonder who that is.
00:36:31.922 --> 00:36:33.590
Oh, what happens when we turn it off?
00:36:33.590 --> 00:36:41.898
If your phone's ever broken or your, you know, your internet goes out, you realize, oh, look at me, I can, I can survive for 15 minutes without it.
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:52.143
I think that's a really, really powerful place to start, because when we think about it, there is so much research that shows the high cost of not listening.
00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:56.012
$1.9 trillion in lost productivity.
00:36:56.246 --> 00:37:00.650
We have 43% of people feeling not heard at work.
00:37:00.650 --> 00:37:04.755
There are there's so much data and there's so many layers to it as well.
00:37:04.755 --> 00:37:08.092
It's not just like I'm not paying attention to you because I'm distracted.
00:37:08.092 --> 00:37:11.929
Sometimes it's I'm not paying attention to you because I don't really think you're worthy of my attention.
00:37:12.195 --> 00:37:13.898
We have microaggressions, biases.
00:37:13.898 --> 00:37:18.436
We have racism, we have sexism, we have all the isms can step into there, too.
00:37:18.436 --> 00:37:20.905
And I take all of those into account in the book.
00:37:20.905 --> 00:37:23.340
I take neurodiversity into account during the book.
00:37:23.673 --> 00:37:37.021
All of these things, we have to consider, it's it's again, this is a self-awareness piece, being able to be honest with yourself about what's what's really going on inside, what's influencing your thoughts and actions right now.
00:37:37.355 --> 00:37:38.655
You can be in that place.
00:37:38.655 --> 00:37:41.224
That's that's a powerful place to be, especially as a leader.
00:37:43.027 --> 00:37:52.436
I'm thinking about my own listening skills and as I hear you speak, I there's a common thread.
00:37:54.438 --> 00:37:56.239
About layers.
00:37:57.541 --> 00:38:10.288
And I think what your book will do is by focusing on listening is unpack some of those layers to help people really focus in.
00:38:11.222 --> 00:38:24.902
And yeah, I want to thank you, Nancy, so much for joining us and for bringing your perspective on leadership, communication and the power of helping people feel heard.
00:38:25.835 --> 00:38:28.739
And, thank you for hearing me.
00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:35.246
Thank you for answering the call to be on our show.
00:38:36.614 --> 00:38:44.221
And, to everyone in our building, leadership, community, family, thank you for being a part of this conversation.
00:38:44.789 --> 00:38:59.836
And if, what Nancy is saying and what we're saying resonates with you, don't forget to, like, share, and subscribe to us. And, Yeah.
00:38:59.836 --> 00:39:01.639
I can't thank you enough.
00:39:03.206 --> 00:39:05.009
Any final words?
00:39:05.608 --> 00:39:09.547
I think you're an extraordinary listener, Dora.
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:11.114
You have patience.
00:39:11.114 --> 00:39:12.382
They can tell.
00:39:12.382 --> 00:39:13.384
And you have presence.
00:39:13.384 --> 00:39:15.085
And your phrasing is great.
00:39:15.085 --> 00:39:17.355
And I really appreciate what you're doing.
00:39:18.121 --> 00:39:20.557
I tell people I got to work on this.
00:39:20.557 --> 00:39:22.793
I'm, like, talk fast. I got a lot.
00:39:22.827 --> 00:39:27.630
It's this is this is a got my a little like I'm a, like, creative machine rolling out here.
00:39:27.797 --> 00:39:29.367
And I love your pacing.
00:39:29.367 --> 00:39:31.702
I love just the your un-rushed.
00:39:32.168 --> 00:39:33.704
And that's what we want.
00:39:33.704 --> 00:39:35.039
We want everybody to your un-rushed.
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:35.773
That's beautiful.
00:39:35.773 --> 00:39:37.574
So thank you for doing what you're doing.
00:39:38.376 --> 00:39:39.844
And to Dylan as well.
00:39:39.844 --> 00:39:44.014
And, and I have absolutely got to go check out that episode with your kids.
00:39:44.014 --> 00:39:45.215
I can't wait to see it.
00:39:45.215 --> 00:39:46.516
That's going to be so much fun.
00:39:46.516 --> 00:39:48.853
Well, thank you so much, Nancy.
00:39:48.853 --> 00:39:51.655
Oh, my God, what a mutual admiration society.
00:39:52.889 --> 00:39:54.224
I'm so humbled.
00:39:54.224 --> 00:40:03.300
So I want you to hold on, as we close the, show with our closing credits so we could, debrief.
00:40:03.534 --> 00:40:05.335
Bye, everybody.
00:40:06.269 --> 00:40:09.539
You've been listening to Building Leadership Community.
00:40:09.806 --> 00:40:12.175
Watch on YouTube @CoachDoraM.
00:40:12.175 --> 00:40:19.215
Listen, wherever you get your podcasts, follow me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube @CoachDoraM.
00:40:19.215 --> 00:40:22.952
Visit me on the web at CoachDoraMendez.com.
00:40:22.952 --> 00:40:26.423
Hosted by me, Dora Mendez.
00:40:27.690 --> 00:40:31.896
Produced by Dora Mendez and Dylan Rogers.
00:40:31.896 --> 00:40:35.565
Graphics, editing, and sound mixing by Dylan Rogers.