Christa Pike still unconscious after botched execution, prison chief has history of problems

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Hey guys,
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uh,
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thanks so much for checking out my show.
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Really,
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really appreciate everybody for watching my videos and everybody who has,
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uh,
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subscribed to my channel really helps out when you guys subscribe.
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Uh,
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in this episode,
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I'm getting into the latest on the Krista Pike situation.
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Krista Pike,
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of course,
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is the woman who,
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um,
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was involved in the botched execution in Tennessee.
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I have a new update on her condition from her attorneys
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and her
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prognosis.
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Is it possible that in a matter of days
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she could
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come out of this,
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and it is possible,
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and I'm going to explain why in this episode.
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I'm talking to,
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and this might sound crazy.
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First,
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but I'm talking to
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a veterinarian because they use pentobarbital every single day
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to put down animals and in many ways,
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not in many ways,
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actually have more experience with the drug
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than even human physicians
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in many cases.
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So I'm going to talk to a veterinarian who has a really interesting take
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on what may have happened here
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and also whether.
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Christa Pike will survive,
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so you're going to hear his explanation.
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And then also,
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there's been all sorts of talk about the
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the firing squad,
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OK.
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Every expert I've talked to says the firing
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squad is more humane than lethal injection,
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and I'm also in this episode talking to the brother of someone who was killed
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by the firing squad about
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what that was like.
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He's actually been going over his autopsy photos.
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It's pretty gruesome,
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but,
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but it's relevant to this entire conversation,
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so a lot to get to
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in this episode of Brian Enton Investigate.
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Hey guys,
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um,
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all right,
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so I've been working for the last 24 hours or so
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trying to get the latest information on the Christa Pike situation,
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and there's a lot of moving parts and a lot to get to in this episode.
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Um,
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just a quick little backstory.
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Krista Pike,
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of course,
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is the Tennessee woman
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who was supposed to be executed.
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She was convicted of brutally killing 19-year-old Colleen Slummer,
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awful,
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awful case in Knoxville in 1995 when she was 18 years old.
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Uh,
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so she was supposed to be executed in Tennessee,
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given two doses of pentobarbital,
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but somehow
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survived and is right now in a Nashville
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hospital.
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Um,
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and I've been trying to get information about her
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exact condition right now.
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The latest,
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uh,
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that I have heard
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from her attorneys is that she,
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um,
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remains unconscious
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on a ventilator,
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uh,
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and that she is under armed guard right now at the Nashville Hospital.
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So I have heard that there are at least 2 guards outside the room guarding the room.
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Uh,
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the hospital room,
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she is inside unconscious on a ventilator right now.
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Um,
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her lawyer,
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who is Assistant Federal Defender Steven Farrell,
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says that he is unaware right now if she has regained consciousness,
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and he says that they won't know for several more days if she is going to recover,
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which
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is interesting.
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Because it goes back to,
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you might remember a couple of days ago
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I interviewed an ER doctor who had treated pentobarbital
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overdoses in the past,
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and he said it was going to take
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days and days
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for the drug to get out of her system and for us
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to see if she's going to be able to recover or not,
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or if she has
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significant brain damage,
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but there is a.
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Good chance I am told that she could recover.
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So just because she is unconscious right now and on a ventilator does not mean
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that she is not going to recover from this,
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I am told.
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So just keep that in mind,
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but we just don't know at this point.
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Her lawyers are saying that we just don't know.
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And they also explained that someone else,
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not the lawyer,
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someone else who she chose has her medical power of attorney.
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And they are protecting her privacy right now.
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That's why we're not getting more specific information
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about what's going on.
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Her lawyers are asking the governor of
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Tennessee
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to
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commute
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her to a life sentence.
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So basically not to try and execute her again.
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And instead
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commute her to
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life in prison.
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Um,
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so
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again,
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there's a lot that will have to happen before that.
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We don't even know if she's going to recover,
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but her attorneys have already filed paperwork asking the governor
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to commute her sentence to a life sentence.
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Meanwhile.
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Um,
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the governor,
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Governor Bill Lee in Tennessee,
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has
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halted all executions in Tennessee,
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at least for the rest of the year while he says
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they try to figure out exactly what went wrong here.
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He appointed a former US attorney,
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uh,
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someone named Ed Stanton to investigate
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the botched,
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um,
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execution.
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So bringing in this outside person to go back and look at
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what
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went wrong here.
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And this isn't the first time something has gone wrong,
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by the way.
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Uh,
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in Tennessee,
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so there's a lot to look at.
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Um,
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Tennessee Commissioner of Correction Frank Strata,
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he is the person who was in charge of
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the whole.
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Corrections department,
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but
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also the executions.
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He has now stepped down.
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He stepped down
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on Saturday
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and the governor,
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the governor said,
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I spoke with the commissioner last night.
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As I said,
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so far as we know,
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uh,
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the Department of Correction followed exactly the protocol as outlined.
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That's their protocol,
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although we don't know for sure that they did.
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This is a process that's been used over 100 times in this country.
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Without this outcome.
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There have been a lot of problems,
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by the way.
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We need to know.
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Why that has,
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why the outcome is different this time than ever before,
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but this is a process,
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uh,
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a protocol that was approved by the Attorney
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General's office has been vetted and a process
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that has been viewed hundreds and hundreds of
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times in similar situations across the country.
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There was no reason to expect it to not work,
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but it didn't,
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something didn't go well,
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and we need to find out why.
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That is what Governor Lee is saying.
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So he's appointed
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this former Attorney general to come in and
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to do an investigation into what went wrong.
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But again,
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things have gone wrong in the past with lethal injection many,
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many,
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many times before,
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and I've been going over that the last couple of episodes
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and specifically with Frank Strada,
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who is the commissioner of correction,
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the one who just stepped down,
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he has a history of execution missteps,
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not only in Tennessee,
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but also in.
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Arizona,
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which I've heard about and now CNN has done extensive reporting on.
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CNN is reporting that in Strada's previous role
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in Arizona's prison system,
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he oversaw three executions that administer
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administrators and observers raised concerns over,
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saying executioners flouted the state's official policies,
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according to CNN.
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And there was an issue this year already
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at the beginning of the year
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where
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they tried to execute someone in Tennessee
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with lethal injection and it did not work,
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um,
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and apparently in Arizona when he was the commissioner in Arizona,
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they had issues with establishing IV lines to administer the lethal drug,
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which seems could have been what the issue was here
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with Christina Pike.
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So not only was there an issue
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in.
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Tennessee with this guy
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the past two times,
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but according to CNN
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there have been issues with getting the IV in correctly in
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Arizona,
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also where he previously
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worked.
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So I want to get to my first interview,
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um,
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and bear with me because at first
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this might sound kind of crazy.
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But I spoke to a hospice veterinarian,
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uh,
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named Doctor John Murray.
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And the reason that I wanted to talk to him is because when it comes to pentobarbital,
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these hospice veterinarians are very,
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very,
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very familiar with the drug,
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more so in many ways than even medical doctors for humans,
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because they use this drug
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to put animals down,
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to put dogs down,
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and a hospice veterinarian,
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uh,
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like the one you're about to hear from,
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uh,
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uses this drug
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many,
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many,
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many times each day.
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And
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the protocol that they use for animals,
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and you're going to hear him explain this,
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is actually different than the protocol for humans,
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and in some ways the way he explains it seems much,
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much better and more effective what they're
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doing for animals when they put them down
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using pentobarbital because they're using it in conjunction with
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some other drugs that they don't use with humans,
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and the issue is,
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They have a hard time getting the drugs
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for human executions because the drug companies don't want to
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give these other drugs and be a part of,
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uh,
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you know,
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capital punishment.
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So
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I,
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I know it might sound weird that I'm interviewing a hospice veterinarian,
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but that's why it actually makes perfect sense because they are the ones
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really more familiar than anyone,
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it seems with pentobarbital.
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So here's my full conversation
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00:08:30.250 --> 00:08:31.480
uh with Doctor John Murray.
284
00:08:31.679 --> 00:08:32.270
Doctor Murray,
285
00:08:32.349 --> 00:08:33.530
thank you for joining me.
286
00:08:33.640 --> 00:08:33.960
I really,
287
00:08:34.070 --> 00:08:35.119
really appreciate it.
288
00:08:35.450 --> 00:08:35.570
Uh,
289
00:08:35.630 --> 00:08:36.580
and I was thinking about it.
290
00:08:36.619 --> 00:08:36.820
I mean,
291
00:08:36.859 --> 00:08:38.460
with pentobarbital,
292
00:08:38.739 --> 00:08:39.270
and that's how you say it,
293
00:08:39.299 --> 00:08:39.369
right,
294
00:08:39.460 --> 00:08:40.340
pentobarbital,
295
00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:40.729
yeah,
296
00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:41.619
um,
297
00:08:41.719 --> 00:08:42.479
vets
298
00:08:42.849 --> 00:08:44.719
use it quite a bit to
299
00:08:45.340 --> 00:08:45.840
put down
300
00:08:46.179 --> 00:08:47.000
animals.
301
00:08:47.099 --> 00:08:47.570
Um,
302
00:08:47.780 --> 00:08:49.580
so you seem like the perfect person to talk to
303
00:08:49.580 --> 00:08:51.559
just because you use it every day pretty much,
304
00:08:51.659 --> 00:08:52.099
right?
305
00:08:52.460 --> 00:08:52.659
Yes,
306
00:08:52.780 --> 00:08:53.440
that's correct.
307
00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:54.619
And how does,
308
00:08:54.780 --> 00:08:54.859
well,
309
00:08:54.929 --> 00:08:55.179
first of all,
310
00:08:55.260 --> 00:08:58.479
what was your reaction when you saw what happened with Christa Pike?
311
00:08:58.890 --> 00:08:59.159
Um,
312
00:08:59.260 --> 00:09:02.500
did you have an idea of kind of based on all of your experience doing this every day,
313
00:09:02.619 --> 00:09:03.760
what may have gone wrong?
314
00:09:04.340 --> 00:09:04.500
Yeah,
315
00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:04.929
I mean,
316
00:09:05.020 --> 00:09:05.700
kind of from a,
317
00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:06.059
you know,
318
00:09:06.169 --> 00:09:07.099
more based just from a,
319
00:09:07.140 --> 00:09:08.219
a medical standpoint,
320
00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:08.500
you know,
321
00:09:08.659 --> 00:09:09.200
just using
322
00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:09.820
the,
323
00:09:09.900 --> 00:09:13.479
the two doses of pentobarbital was kind of shocking to me.
324
00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:14.020
Um,
325
00:09:14.099 --> 00:09:14.219
that,
326
00:09:14.260 --> 00:09:14.609
that is,
327
00:09:14.659 --> 00:09:14.820
you know,
328
00:09:14.900 --> 00:09:15.099
their,
329
00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:16.619
their current protocol and
330
00:09:16.780 --> 00:09:18.500
that they needed to be able to use a,
331
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:19.380
a second dose,
332
00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:19.969
let alone,
333
00:09:20.020 --> 00:09:20.219
you know,
334
00:09:20.340 --> 00:09:20.520
the,
335
00:09:20.619 --> 00:09:21.690
the first one to,
336
00:09:22.299 --> 00:09:23.260
be able to
337
00:09:23.989 --> 00:09:24.270
Um,
338
00:09:24.309 --> 00:09:25.229
accomplish their,
339
00:09:25.349 --> 00:09:26.190
their goal
340
00:09:26.429 --> 00:09:26.619
was,
341
00:09:26.669 --> 00:09:27.859
was pretty shocking to me.
342
00:09:28.309 --> 00:09:28.590
Why,
343
00:09:28.710 --> 00:09:29.789
why is that shocking?
344
00:09:30.349 --> 00:09:30.859
I guess in,
345
00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:31.710
in pets,
346
00:09:31.750 --> 00:09:32.219
um,
347
00:09:32.419 --> 00:09:33.070
and I do,
348
00:09:33.140 --> 00:09:33.270
you know,
349
00:09:33.309 --> 00:09:35.989
in-home euthanasia and in-home hospice every single day,
350
00:09:36.229 --> 00:09:37.950
we most certainly just never use a,
351
00:09:37.989 --> 00:09:39.219
a single drug or,
352
00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:41.859
or the pentobarbital as the only agent to,
353
00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:42.229
um,
354
00:09:42.349 --> 00:09:42.469
you know,
355
00:09:42.510 --> 00:09:43.909
accomplish humane euthanasia.
356
00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:44.739
Yeah,
357
00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:45.609
I think what I've,
358
00:09:45.619 --> 00:09:46.000
from
359
00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:48.859
everything I've been reading since all of this happened,
360
00:09:48.979 --> 00:09:51.330
they used to use multiple drugs,
361
00:09:51.380 --> 00:09:52.000
I think,
362
00:09:52.099 --> 00:09:52.609
um,
363
00:09:52.900 --> 00:09:56.070
but there's all these issues with the companies not wanting to give the drug.
364
00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:58.900
So it sounds like the protocol now in some states is,
365
00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:00.479
is down to just one drug,
366
00:10:00.979 --> 00:10:01.440
which
367
00:10:01.659 --> 00:10:03.020
isn't the way it used to be.
368
00:10:03.539 --> 00:10:03.549
How,
369
00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:05.250
how does it work with like what,
370
00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:06.650
like what's the difference with pets?
371
00:10:06.700 --> 00:10:07.599
How do you use
372
00:10:07.780 --> 00:10:09.039
pentobarbital?
373
00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:12.169
With what you do in combination with other drugs.
374
00:10:12.479 --> 00:10:12.679
Yeah,
375
00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:13.520
so in pets,
376
00:10:13.640 --> 00:10:14.690
pentobarbital is,
377
00:10:14.909 --> 00:10:19.359
is the last medication that's given that completely make them unconscious
378
00:10:19.359 --> 00:10:22.200
and then stop their heart and their lungs or their breathing.
379
00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:23.190
Um,
380
00:10:23.219 --> 00:10:26.400
we typically use either a two-step or a 3-step protocol.
381
00:10:26.619 --> 00:10:26.900
Um,
382
00:10:27.010 --> 00:10:28.500
if you're doing more of a 3-step,
383
00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:28.940
it's
384
00:10:29.090 --> 00:10:30.440
the first medication is
385
00:10:30.580 --> 00:10:32.640
very strong anti-anxiety medication,
386
00:10:32.809 --> 00:10:35.369
calming medication just to help get them relaxed and,
387
00:10:35.419 --> 00:10:36.500
and not stressed.
388
00:10:36.859 --> 00:10:38.070
And then the second medication,
389
00:10:38.659 --> 00:10:39.119
um,
390
00:10:39.419 --> 00:10:42.094
will actually Put them under a complete plane of anesthesia.
391
00:10:42.375 --> 00:10:42.455
So,
392
00:10:42.465 --> 00:10:46.455
it's given pretty slowly and then they'll slowly just drift off into a deep sleep.
393
00:10:46.655 --> 00:10:48.375
Like if you or I would go under for surgery,
394
00:10:48.414 --> 00:10:50.414
it's the same exact medications being used.
395
00:10:50.534 --> 00:10:50.734
So,
396
00:10:50.965 --> 00:10:51.094
you know,
397
00:10:51.135 --> 00:10:53.515
you don't remember anything once they start giving the medication
398
00:10:53.515 --> 00:10:55.575
and then until you wake up for after surgery.
399
00:10:55.614 --> 00:10:55.825
It's,
400
00:10:55.854 --> 00:10:57.155
it's a very similar medication.
401
00:10:57.734 --> 00:11:01.734
And then once they're under a complete plane of anesthesia or unconsciousness,
402
00:11:01.974 --> 00:11:03.734
then pentobarbital is then given.
403
00:11:04.549 --> 00:11:05.890
And when you give it,
404
00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:06.869
obviously you go,
405
00:11:06.950 --> 00:11:09.049
you have an IV that you set up into the vein.
406
00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:11.119
Not always.
407
00:11:11.239 --> 00:11:11.440
Um,
408
00:11:11.520 --> 00:11:13.479
a lot of veterinarians do set up an IV,
409
00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.710
kind of doing it in home is a little bit differently,
410
00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:17.440
but more often than not,
411
00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:19.150
the pentobarbital is given,
412
00:11:19.309 --> 00:11:19.780
um,
413
00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:20.710
inside of a vein.
414
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:21.799
There are instances,
415
00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:22.000
you know,
416
00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:24.599
we're able to get a vein access is really compromised,
417
00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:25.900
it's a really sick animal,
418
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:27.320
you're not able to get it in the vein.
419
00:11:27.369 --> 00:11:28.799
There are other routes we are able to,
420
00:11:28.929 --> 00:11:29.659
to give it as well.
421
00:11:30.429 --> 00:11:33.150
So what do you think happened with Christa Pike in terms of,
422
00:11:33.229 --> 00:11:33.349
I mean,
423
00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:35.450
do you think they didn't get a vein or what's your,
424
00:11:35.789 --> 00:11:35.940
like,
425
00:11:36.030 --> 00:11:36.539
what's your feeling?
426
00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:36.760
I mean,
427
00:11:36.890 --> 00:11:37.179
obviously,
428
00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:37.549
we don't know,
429
00:11:37.630 --> 00:11:39.419
but just based on the information we have.
430
00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:39.909
Sure,
431
00:11:39.989 --> 00:11:40.070
yeah,
432
00:11:40.150 --> 00:11:40.590
I was gonna say,
433
00:11:40.630 --> 00:11:40.750
you know,
434
00:11:40.830 --> 00:11:41.929
we don't know 100%,
435
00:11:42.140 --> 00:11:42.299
you know,
436
00:11:42.390 --> 00:11:42.669
what's,
437
00:11:42.750 --> 00:11:44.390
what exactly is going on at this time,
438
00:11:44.429 --> 00:11:45.239
and I never want to put,
439
00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:45.630
you know,
440
00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:46.979
false information out there,
441
00:11:47.030 --> 00:11:47.869
but I would say just a,
442
00:11:48.020 --> 00:11:49.219
a thought or something that,
443
00:11:49.299 --> 00:11:49.390
you know,
444
00:11:49.469 --> 00:11:49.549
could.
445
00:11:49.695 --> 00:11:50.825
a possibility that has,
446
00:11:51.094 --> 00:11:54.494
has gone wrong would be that the medication went outside of the vein.
447
00:11:54.695 --> 00:11:54.895
Um,
448
00:11:54.934 --> 00:11:55.094
you know,
449
00:11:55.174 --> 00:11:55.934
we don't know
450
00:11:56.085 --> 00:11:59.734
if both medications were given through the same IV port or if they,
451
00:11:59.815 --> 00:11:59.934
you know,
452
00:12:00.015 --> 00:12:01.494
were attempting different IVs,
453
00:12:01.534 --> 00:12:01.854
but
454
00:12:02.054 --> 00:12:02.695
that would be my,
455
00:12:02.775 --> 00:12:04.955
my main inclination that the medication went
456
00:12:05.255 --> 00:12:08.715
outside of her vein and it wasn't totally absorbed in her bloodstream right away.
457
00:12:09.419 --> 00:12:10.700
And how does that work?
458
00:12:10.820 --> 00:12:11.039
Like,
459
00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:11.299
uh,
460
00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:11.539
you know,
461
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:11.900
I'm not,
462
00:12:12.049 --> 00:12:13.059
I'm not a medical guy.
463
00:12:13.119 --> 00:12:13.380
Like,
464
00:12:14.140 --> 00:12:15.119
so when you put the
465
00:12:15.380 --> 00:12:15.900
IV in,
466
00:12:15.940 --> 00:12:16.940
you would think it's in the vein,
467
00:12:16.989 --> 00:12:18.210
but it's actually not in the vein,
468
00:12:18.219 --> 00:12:18.559
or like,
469
00:12:18.780 --> 00:12:20.049
can you explain that a little more?
470
00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.580
Yeah,
471
00:12:20.739 --> 00:12:21.400
so when you're,
472
00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:21.929
um,
473
00:12:21.940 --> 00:12:22.409
trying to,
474
00:12:22.539 --> 00:12:23.159
to put an
475
00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:25.039
IV in a person or an animal,
476
00:12:25.419 --> 00:12:25.820
um,
477
00:12:26.099 --> 00:12:26.419
typically,
478
00:12:26.500 --> 00:12:26.659
you know,
479
00:12:26.739 --> 00:12:28.340
going in on their arms or sometimes,
480
00:12:28.460 --> 00:12:28.580
you know,
481
00:12:28.619 --> 00:12:28.919
on their,
482
00:12:29.020 --> 00:12:30.489
their other limbs as well.
483
00:12:30.820 --> 00:12:33.500
But we always like to see a drawback and then,
484
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:33.820
um,
485
00:12:33.940 --> 00:12:34.059
you know,
486
00:12:34.130 --> 00:12:34.489
getting a,
487
00:12:34.570 --> 00:12:35.549
a flash of their blood,
488
00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:36.260
so you're knowing that,
489
00:12:36.419 --> 00:12:37.059
that you're inside.
490
00:12:37.176 --> 00:12:37.676
The vein.
491
00:12:38.135 --> 00:12:38.606
Sometimes as well,
492
00:12:38.656 --> 00:12:40.096
your vein is kind of like a tube,
493
00:12:40.135 --> 00:12:40.945
you can kind of
494
00:12:41.135 --> 00:12:41.986
um stick the needle,
495
00:12:42.056 --> 00:12:42.976
it can go all the way through.
496
00:12:43.075 --> 00:12:46.346
So then it's down here outside the vein and then you start giving the medication,
497
00:12:46.416 --> 00:12:49.716
it's kind of just going around the vein and the surrounding tissues and,
498
00:12:49.935 --> 00:12:50.125
um,
499
00:12:50.135 --> 00:12:50.296
you know,
500
00:12:50.375 --> 00:12:51.216
the muscle and,
501
00:12:51.306 --> 00:12:53.216
and connective tissue and things like that.
502
00:12:53.375 --> 00:12:53.736
So,
503
00:12:53.976 --> 00:12:54.395
um,
504
00:12:54.455 --> 00:12:55.255
that's definitely a,
505
00:12:55.406 --> 00:12:56.455
a possibility.
506
00:12:56.575 --> 00:12:56.856
But,
507
00:12:56.935 --> 00:12:57.056
you know,
508
00:12:57.255 --> 00:12:58.056
especially when we're using,
509
00:12:58.135 --> 00:12:58.296
you know,
510
00:12:58.375 --> 00:12:59.895
the 2 or 3-step protocols,
511
00:13:00.156 --> 00:13:03.695
we know that the second the medication isn't going inside the vein cause our,
512
00:13:03.885 --> 00:13:04.895
our patient isn't reacting.
513
00:13:05.012 --> 00:13:06.012
To the medication too,
514
00:13:06.052 --> 00:13:06.492
and then,
515
00:13:06.611 --> 00:13:06.802
um,
516
00:13:06.851 --> 00:13:06.932
you know,
517
00:13:07.012 --> 00:13:09.492
you're seeing changes around the outside as well.
518
00:13:09.611 --> 00:13:10.492
So it's something that
519
00:13:10.682 --> 00:13:11.812
we most certainly never would,
520
00:13:11.971 --> 00:13:14.291
would give pentobarbital outside the vein because it's,
521
00:13:14.452 --> 00:13:14.921
we would know,
522
00:13:14.971 --> 00:13:15.442
you know,
523
00:13:15.771 --> 00:13:16.651
on steps one and two,
524
00:13:16.702 --> 00:13:16.861
that,
525
00:13:16.932 --> 00:13:17.471
that our
526
00:13:17.812 --> 00:13:18.812
IV access wasn't,
527
00:13:18.942 --> 00:13:19.661
wasn't correct.
528
00:13:20.012 --> 00:13:20.132
Yeah,
529
00:13:20.252 --> 00:13:21.091
cause with what you do,
530
00:13:21.171 --> 00:13:22.791
you would know because you're trying
531
00:13:22.992 --> 00:13:23.031
the,
532
00:13:23.052 --> 00:13:28.081
the anti-anxiety and then they just kind of putting the dog at rest to sleep,
533
00:13:28.331 --> 00:13:31.281
you would know that that wasn't working before you got to the pentobarbital.
534
00:13:31.651 --> 00:13:32.052
Exactly.
535
00:13:32.211 --> 00:13:32.651
OK.
536
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.070
And what happens if it doesn't go in the vein and you inject the pentobarbital?
537
00:13:37.119 --> 00:13:37.250
I mean,
538
00:13:37.330 --> 00:13:37.650
because with,
539
00:13:37.729 --> 00:13:38.820
with Crysta Pike there was,
540
00:13:38.890 --> 00:13:41.000
she was complaining of like burning.
541
00:13:41.250 --> 00:13:41.400
I mean,
542
00:13:41.450 --> 00:13:42.390
do you suspect that's what happened?
543
00:13:42.500 --> 00:13:43.570
Is it just like pool in,
544
00:13:43.650 --> 00:13:44.520
in the arm,
545
00:13:44.530 --> 00:13:44.950
or
546
00:13:45.090 --> 00:13:45.510
it does.
547
00:13:45.590 --> 00:13:46.309
It's a.
548
00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:48.549
Very potent material or,
549
00:13:48.599 --> 00:13:50.059
or substance that
550
00:13:50.239 --> 00:13:50.440
it,
551
00:13:50.520 --> 00:13:51.669
it can have a lot of,
552
00:13:51.729 --> 00:13:54.599
a lot of burning sensation or kind of a pain sensation
553
00:13:54.760 --> 00:13:55.559
um with it.
554
00:13:55.640 --> 00:13:55.760
You know,
555
00:13:55.880 --> 00:13:58.119
there has been instances reported that in animals,
556
00:13:58.140 --> 00:13:59.200
if it goes outside the vein,
557
00:13:59.239 --> 00:13:59.440
you know,
558
00:13:59.809 --> 00:14:00.789
they can be reacting,
559
00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:02.039
they can be pulling back their limb,
560
00:14:02.140 --> 00:14:02.440
it can be,
561
00:14:02.479 --> 00:14:02.679
you know,
562
00:14:02.809 --> 00:14:04.099
quite painful for them,
563
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:04.479
um,
564
00:14:04.489 --> 00:14:06.859
if pentobarb alcohol does go outside of their vein.
565
00:14:07.809 --> 00:14:12.280
It's kind of interesting that it seems like the protocol and the way it's done
566
00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:16.679
with animals is like much better than what they're doing
567
00:14:17.500 --> 00:14:19.599
with lethal injection for humans.
568
00:14:20.450 --> 00:14:21.719
I think a lot of it,
569
00:14:21.969 --> 00:14:22.119
you know,
570
00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:23.219
comes down to unfortunately,
571
00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:24.359
the legislation.
572
00:14:24.530 --> 00:14:27.169
And on the human side with the American Medical Association,
573
00:14:27.270 --> 00:14:27.289
you know,
574
00:14:27.409 --> 00:14:28.400
they're not supporting,
575
00:14:28.609 --> 00:14:28.770
um,
576
00:14:28.890 --> 00:14:29.049
you know,
577
00:14:29.119 --> 00:14:31.210
the death penalty or lethal injection is,
578
00:14:31.270 --> 00:14:32.190
is their stance.
579
00:14:32.210 --> 00:14:32.510
And
580
00:14:32.690 --> 00:14:35.409
so they're kind of removing themselves from it,
581
00:14:35.530 --> 00:14:35.770
which,
582
00:14:35.849 --> 00:14:35.969
you know,
583
00:14:36.030 --> 00:14:36.409
is uh,
584
00:14:36.489 --> 00:14:37.359
an opinion of,
585
00:14:37.650 --> 00:14:37.809
you know,
586
00:14:37.969 --> 00:14:38.530
each and every,
587
00:14:38.609 --> 00:14:39.210
every person.
588
00:14:39.380 --> 00:14:39.719
So
589
00:14:39.859 --> 00:14:40.869
that can make it difficult.
590
00:14:40.940 --> 00:14:41.260
We're having,
591
00:14:41.309 --> 00:14:41.460
you know,
592
00:14:41.659 --> 00:14:42.020
law,
593
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:42.219
but,
594
00:14:42.340 --> 00:14:42.690
um,
595
00:14:42.780 --> 00:14:42.940
you know,
596
00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:45.539
the legislation deciding what is happening and,
597
00:14:45.739 --> 00:14:46.130
you know,
598
00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:47.849
this is just speculation,
599
00:14:47.859 --> 00:14:49.099
but having people that aren't,
600
00:14:49.169 --> 00:14:49.299
you know,
601
00:14:49.400 --> 00:14:50.969
are not familiar with these medications,
602
00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:53.159
have not used these medications routinely,
603
00:14:53.229 --> 00:14:54.859
coming up with these protocols,
604
00:14:55.059 --> 00:14:55.539
um,
605
00:14:55.780 --> 00:14:55.979
you know,
606
00:14:56.140 --> 00:14:56.219
to,
607
00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:57.419
to decide this for,
608
00:14:57.500 --> 00:14:58.140
for somebody.
609
00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:00.359
And the other thing I was shocked by is,
610
00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:00.669
uh,
611
00:15:00.760 --> 00:15:01.520
with Krista Pike,
612
00:15:01.530 --> 00:15:02.700
it was a doctor,
613
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:03.309
but,
614
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:03.780
um,
615
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.140
like typically I'm told because like doctors take an oath not to,
616
00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:08.940
um,
617
00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:10.020
like kill people,
618
00:15:10.239 --> 00:15:12.830
it's typically not doctors doing it or even nurses,
619
00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.000
and sometimes it's not even EMTs just because.
620
00:15:15.109 --> 00:15:17.679
Because their oath doesn't really allow them to do it.
621
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.260
So sometimes it's just like jail staff,
622
00:15:21.599 --> 00:15:22.140
um,
623
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:22.799
you know,
624
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.669
putting the IV in and actually doing the lethal injection,
625
00:15:25.719 --> 00:15:28.479
which kind of shocked me because it seems like it would take like
626
00:15:28.479 --> 00:15:31.510
more of a level of expertise to get it right every time.
627
00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:32.159
Yeah,
628
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.400
no,
629
00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:33.900
it's definitely something that.
630
00:15:34.359 --> 00:15:34.840
Uh,
631
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:35.840
kind of pulls on,
632
00:15:35.950 --> 00:15:37.719
on your morals and your heartstrings a little bit.
633
00:15:37.770 --> 00:15:38.000
It's,
634
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:38.200
you know,
635
00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:40.630
if we are going to proceed with this through the legislation,
636
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:41.020
at least,
637
00:15:41.119 --> 00:15:41.280
you know,
638
00:15:41.359 --> 00:15:42.219
having the correct
639
00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:43.580
personnel there to,
640
00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:43.799
you know,
641
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:45.719
know the signs to watch out for what is working,
642
00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:46.119
what is,
643
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:46.830
is not working,
644
00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:46.960
and,
645
00:15:46.969 --> 00:15:48.140
and to be informed on that.
646
00:15:48.890 --> 00:15:50.369
So with animals that would they,
647
00:15:50.489 --> 00:15:51.530
they would never use,
648
00:15:51.609 --> 00:15:53.369
you would never just use pentobarbital,
649
00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:54.710
like would that ever happen?
650
00:15:55.330 --> 00:15:55.729
Honestly,
651
00:15:55.849 --> 00:15:56.010
no.
652
00:15:56.130 --> 00:15:56.609
That is,
653
00:15:56.770 --> 00:15:57.159
you know,
654
00:15:57.489 --> 00:15:57.909
basically,
655
00:15:58.109 --> 00:15:58.250
I mean,
656
00:15:58.289 --> 00:15:58.489
it's,
657
00:15:58.570 --> 00:15:58.690
you know,
658
00:15:58.770 --> 00:15:59.530
on the medication,
659
00:15:59.570 --> 00:16:00.130
it is labeled,
660
00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:01.250
you are able to use it,
661
00:16:01.289 --> 00:16:01.609
but
662
00:16:01.770 --> 00:16:02.650
in practice and,
663
00:16:02.719 --> 00:16:04.330
and every other um veterinarian,
664
00:16:04.369 --> 00:16:04.599
I know,
665
00:16:04.609 --> 00:16:06.750
it's basically considered inhumane to do that.
666
00:16:07.570 --> 00:16:09.309
Has it ever not worked for you?
667
00:16:10.030 --> 00:16:10.369
No.
668
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:12.159
Even,
669
00:16:12.239 --> 00:16:12.440
you know,
670
00:16:12.520 --> 00:16:12.840
there are,
671
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:14.140
are roots that,
672
00:16:14.330 --> 00:16:14.880
um,
673
00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:15.479
you know,
674
00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:17.239
you're able to go outside the vein and,
675
00:16:17.250 --> 00:16:17.400
you know,
676
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:18.520
in the abdominal cavity,
677
00:16:18.630 --> 00:16:19.229
things like that,
678
00:16:19.280 --> 00:16:19.479
it,
679
00:16:19.640 --> 00:16:19.960
you know,
680
00:16:20.119 --> 00:16:20.429
the,
681
00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:22.960
it can slowly depress the central nervous system,
682
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:23.159
but,
683
00:16:23.239 --> 00:16:23.359
you know,
684
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.070
over about 20 to 30 minutes,
685
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:26.059
and eventually,
686
00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:26.549
um,
687
00:16:26.669 --> 00:16:26.789
you know,
688
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:27.400
results in,
689
00:16:27.510 --> 00:16:29.219
in cardiovascular arrest.
690
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:29.919
Yeah,
691
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.159
and the Crysta Pike,
692
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:31.909
uh,
693
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:32.239
case,
694
00:16:32.400 --> 00:16:33.830
it seems like according to the protocol,
695
00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:36.099
there were different ways that they could try to
696
00:16:36.400 --> 00:16:37.070
get a vein in the arm,
697
00:16:37.119 --> 00:16:40.539
but then I think they also tried to go like directly into the
698
00:16:40.929 --> 00:16:41.719
The heart
699
00:16:42.890 --> 00:16:44.619
Does it surprise you it still didn't work?
700
00:16:45.760 --> 00:16:45.890
You know,
701
00:16:45.929 --> 00:16:47.090
I'm not too sure about,
702
00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:47.369
you know,
703
00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:48.650
if they were able to,
704
00:16:48.760 --> 00:16:48.890
you know,
705
00:16:49.010 --> 00:16:49.770
get directly in.
706
00:16:49.890 --> 00:16:50.650
We are able to do,
707
00:16:50.729 --> 00:16:50.919
you know,
708
00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:51.929
directly into the heart,
709
00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:53.080
directly into the kidney and,
710
00:16:53.130 --> 00:16:53.909
and livers,
711
00:16:54.130 --> 00:16:54.520
um,
712
00:16:54.650 --> 00:16:54.809
you know,
713
00:16:54.890 --> 00:16:55.119
in,
714
00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:56.890
in canine and feline patients.
715
00:16:56.969 --> 00:16:57.340
So that is,
716
00:16:57.409 --> 00:16:57.530
you know,
717
00:16:57.570 --> 00:16:58.530
an acceptable route.
718
00:16:58.599 --> 00:16:58.929
But
719
00:16:59.080 --> 00:16:59.559
it's hard to say,
720
00:16:59.609 --> 00:16:59.729
you know,
721
00:16:59.770 --> 00:17:00.349
if you're having
722
00:17:00.489 --> 00:17:04.150
not trained professionals or people that have not been doing this regularly,
723
00:17:04.368 --> 00:17:04.680
um,
724
00:17:04.800 --> 00:17:04.930
you know,
725
00:17:05.130 --> 00:17:07.630
to know the correct landmarks and the correct signs to look for.
726
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:09.398
When it's done correctly,
727
00:17:09.438 --> 00:17:11.239
like the way you do it every day,
728
00:17:11.479 --> 00:17:13.229
how long does it typically take once,
729
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:15.598
once you inject the pentobarbital?
730
00:17:15.958 --> 00:17:16.118
Yeah,
731
00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:17.958
so through direct IV access,
732
00:17:17.968 --> 00:17:19.718
it usually takes about 1 to 2 minutes.
733
00:17:19.989 --> 00:17:20.678
1 to 2 minutes,
734
00:17:20.749 --> 00:17:21.259
OK.
735
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:22.259
Um,
736
00:17:22.638 --> 00:17:23.159
and I don't know,
737
00:17:23.198 --> 00:17:23.438
I mean,
738
00:17:23.598 --> 00:17:26.428
I guess when you're doing this humanely putting down animals,
739
00:17:26.438 --> 00:17:27.259
which we've all,
740
00:17:27.917 --> 00:17:29.779
everybody pretty much has a pet and knows how
741
00:17:30.239 --> 00:17:30.879
hard that is,
742
00:17:30.918 --> 00:17:31.318
you know.
743
00:17:31.729 --> 00:17:32.050
Um,
744
00:17:32.130 --> 00:17:33.819
so I respect the work you do every day.
745
00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:34.709
I actually had
746
00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:36.109
like an at home,
747
00:17:36.219 --> 00:17:36.790
uh,
748
00:17:37.609 --> 00:17:38.089
situation with,
749
00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:40.410
I had to put my dog down not that long ago.
750
00:17:40.760 --> 00:17:41.349
Um,
751
00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:42.069
but
752
00:17:42.530 --> 00:17:44.030
do you have any thoughts on like
753
00:17:44.530 --> 00:17:45.890
how she's going to do now?
754
00:17:45.969 --> 00:17:46.079
I mean,
755
00:17:46.130 --> 00:17:47.400
because I've heard a lot of mixed things.
756
00:17:47.449 --> 00:17:50.709
I actually interviewed like an ER doctor last week who was saying
757
00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:55.719
he has treated pentobarbital overdoses where you actually can come out of it,
758
00:17:55.729 --> 00:17:57.229
like if it wasn't in the vein,
759
00:17:57.250 --> 00:17:57.709
like
760
00:17:58.339 --> 00:18:00.569
after several days of being on a ventilator,
761
00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:01.000
like you,
762
00:18:01.290 --> 00:18:01.689
she could.
763
00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:02.660
Possibly recover.
764
00:18:02.739 --> 00:18:03.290
I don't know if,
765
00:18:03.500 --> 00:18:04.869
if you have any thoughts on that.
766
00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:07.290
It's hard to say for sure and how much,
767
00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:07.540
you know,
768
00:18:07.619 --> 00:18:08.219
if any,
769
00:18:08.300 --> 00:18:09.099
was initially,
770
00:18:09.209 --> 00:18:09.339
you know,
771
00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:10.180
administered in,
772
00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:11.170
in her bloodstream.
773
00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:11.489
So,
774
00:18:11.689 --> 00:18:11.810
you know,
775
00:18:11.890 --> 00:18:13.739
from a medical standpoint on the human side,
776
00:18:13.780 --> 00:18:14.209
I'm not,
777
00:18:14.300 --> 00:18:14.420
you know,
778
00:18:14.459 --> 00:18:15.500
100% sure what,
779
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:15.819
you know,
780
00:18:15.939 --> 00:18:16.420
what could,
781
00:18:16.579 --> 00:18:17.170
could happen.
782
00:18:17.420 --> 00:18:19.900
You've never been in a situation with an animal like this,
783
00:18:20.010 --> 00:18:20.619
obviously,
784
00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:21.189
yeah,
785
00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:22.760
where they didn't pass away.
786
00:18:23.300 --> 00:18:23.569
Um,
787
00:18:23.699 --> 00:18:25.410
is there anything else that stands out to you?
788
00:18:25.459 --> 00:18:25.660
I mean,
789
00:18:25.739 --> 00:18:25.939
what,
790
00:18:26.060 --> 00:18:26.420
like,
791
00:18:26.540 --> 00:18:29.439
what made you passionate enough to make a video about it?
792
00:18:30.410 --> 00:18:30.699
I don't know.
793
00:18:30.739 --> 00:18:31.130
I guess,
794
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:31.569
uh,
795
00:18:31.579 --> 00:18:32.329
there was a lot of,
796
00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:33.739
I don't wanna say misinformation,
797
00:18:33.780 --> 00:18:33.930
but,
798
00:18:33.939 --> 00:18:34.060
you know,
799
00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:35.170
different thought process.
800
00:18:35.219 --> 00:18:35.500
I heard,
801
00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:35.699
you know,
802
00:18:35.780 --> 00:18:37.369
maybe she was agonal breathing and,
803
00:18:37.530 --> 00:18:39.140
and things like that during the,
804
00:18:39.260 --> 00:18:39.979
the process.
805
00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:40.530
But,
806
00:18:40.739 --> 00:18:41.119
um,
807
00:18:41.130 --> 00:18:41.260
you know,
808
00:18:41.300 --> 00:18:42.420
the way pentobarbital works,
809
00:18:42.459 --> 00:18:43.000
it actually,
810
00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:43.290
you know,
811
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:45.859
works on your central nervous system and your brain first,
812
00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:46.599
and then it'll,
813
00:18:46.819 --> 00:18:47.209
um,
814
00:18:47.219 --> 00:18:48.810
stop your breathing and stop your lungs,
815
00:18:48.819 --> 00:18:50.540
and then we'll stop your heart afterwards.
816
00:18:50.660 --> 00:18:51.000
So,
817
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:51.680
um,
818
00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:52.619
You know,
819
00:18:52.699 --> 00:18:53.819
that that is kind of the,
820
00:18:53.829 --> 00:18:55.739
the typical flow and of the process,
821
00:18:55.780 --> 00:18:57.000
and then also just the,
822
00:18:57.089 --> 00:18:59.510
the protocol of the state of Tennessee has,
823
00:18:59.660 --> 00:18:59.979
um,
824
00:18:59.989 --> 00:19:00.729
seemed a little,
825
00:19:00.849 --> 00:19:01.479
a little
826
00:19:01.699 --> 00:19:02.760
barbaric to me,
827
00:19:03.189 --> 00:19:04.849
compared to what you do for animals.
828
00:19:05.030 --> 00:19:05.489
Yes.
829
00:19:05.859 --> 00:19:06.500
And just lastly,
830
00:19:06.739 --> 00:19:07.859
explain the process if you don't mind,
831
00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:08.380
you said it,
832
00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:09.839
does it go to the brain first?
833
00:19:10.239 --> 00:19:10.359
Yup,
834
00:19:10.510 --> 00:19:10.719
yup.
835
00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:12.640
So the way pentobarbital works is that,
836
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.079
at large doses or at lethal doses actually
837
00:19:15.239 --> 00:19:18.719
um goes to the brain and will completely make them unconscious or,
838
00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:19.520
or brain dead.
839
00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:20.010
And then,
840
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.479
um then that process will slowly stop their breathing
841
00:19:22.479 --> 00:19:24.339
or stop their lungs and then stop their heart
842
00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:25.540
afterwards as well.
843
00:19:26.310 --> 00:19:26.660
OK,
844
00:19:27.109 --> 00:19:27.400
interesting.
845
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:27.680
Well,
846
00:19:27.719 --> 00:19:28.599
I appreciate your time,
847
00:19:28.800 --> 00:19:29.410
Doctor Murray.
848
00:19:29.479 --> 00:19:30.349
Thank you so much.
849
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:30.800
Yes,
850
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:31.560
thanks for having me.
851
00:19:31.760 --> 00:19:31.959
All right,
852
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:32.479
see you later,
853
00:19:32.569 --> 00:19:32.839
bye.
854
00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:33.270
Really,
855
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:35.030
really appreciate Doctor Murray for taking the
856
00:19:35.030 --> 00:19:37.180
time to talk with me and just interesting
857
00:19:37.550 --> 00:19:39.900
to hear the way they use the drug,
858
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:40.680
um,
859
00:19:40.760 --> 00:19:41.599
and you know,
860
00:19:41.959 --> 00:19:44.640
most of us have probably had to put a pet down before,
861
00:19:44.760 --> 00:19:45.219
so.
862
00:19:45.530 --> 00:19:45.810
You know,
863
00:19:45.969 --> 00:19:46.890
while it sounds crazy,
864
00:19:46.969 --> 00:19:47.199
I mean,
865
00:19:47.229 --> 00:19:48.229
it's all
866
00:19:48.849 --> 00:19:50.930
we're in similar terrain here when it comes to
867
00:19:50.930 --> 00:19:53.209
human executions and what they do with animals,
868
00:19:53.329 --> 00:19:53.709
so
869
00:19:53.890 --> 00:19:56.109
I appreciate his expertise very much.
870
00:19:56.530 --> 00:19:56.880
Um,
871
00:19:56.969 --> 00:20:00.170
I also want to get to my interview with someone named Randy Gardner,
872
00:20:00.290 --> 00:20:01.869
who I was connected to with
873
00:20:02.130 --> 00:20:02.750
through a friend,
874
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:03.310
and
875
00:20:03.650 --> 00:20:05.770
what I'm trying to do with my coverage ever since
876
00:20:05.770 --> 00:20:08.709
the botched Krista Pike execution is just give you guys
877
00:20:09.489 --> 00:20:10.790
all the perspective.
878
00:20:11.022 --> 00:20:12.412
On all different sides,
879
00:20:12.503 --> 00:20:13.003
OK,
880
00:20:13.343 --> 00:20:14.203
and I've told you before,
881
00:20:14.223 --> 00:20:14.402
I mean,
882
00:20:14.463 --> 00:20:15.463
I don't give my opinion.
883
00:20:15.542 --> 00:20:18.983
I'm not coming on here to preach for or to preach against the death penalty.
884
00:20:19.022 --> 00:20:20.243
That's not my job.
885
00:20:20.463 --> 00:20:21.863
And if you watch my different episodes,
886
00:20:21.942 --> 00:20:24.723
you'll hear from people who are for the death penalty
887
00:20:24.892 --> 00:20:27.593
and you'll hear from people who are against the death penalty
888
00:20:27.772 --> 00:20:29.223
and I've got doctors on and I,
889
00:20:29.302 --> 00:20:31.902
I just wanna get you guys all the different perspectives
890
00:20:31.902 --> 00:20:34.603
on what happened here and the death penalty in general.
891
00:20:34.863 --> 00:20:36.182
And since we started talking.
892
00:20:36.316 --> 00:20:37.656
About lethal injection,
893
00:20:38.115 --> 00:20:38.975
it's come up
894
00:20:39.196 --> 00:20:43.336
that the firing squad is a more humane way
895
00:20:43.676 --> 00:20:45.855
to execute someone because
896
00:20:46.196 --> 00:20:47.965
most researchers say it is much,
897
00:20:48.156 --> 00:20:49.225
much more immediate,
898
00:20:49.395 --> 00:20:51.796
and many states have adopted the firing squad
899
00:20:52.076 --> 00:20:54.056
as a preferred means of execution,
900
00:20:54.196 --> 00:20:55.215
where essentially
901
00:20:55.355 --> 00:20:57.595
you have prison staff with rifles who all shoot at
902
00:20:57.595 --> 00:20:59.395
the same time and shoot someone in the chest,
903
00:20:59.556 --> 00:21:01.556
and it's supposed to kill them instantly.
904
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.439
So I wanted to talk to this man named Randy Gardner.
905
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.219
His brother Ronnie Lee Gardner was killed by firing squad in Utah
906
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.160
in 202,010,
907
00:21:12.209 --> 00:21:15.660
and he was one of the first people killed by firing squad in over a decade.
908
00:21:16.199 --> 00:21:17.380
And his brother
909
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.979
actually had the option
910
00:21:19.199 --> 00:21:22.040
to either have lethal injection or firing squad,
911
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.819
and he chose firing squad because it is known
912
00:21:25.199 --> 00:21:26.459
to be more.
913
00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:28.920
What they thought more humane.
914
00:21:29.030 --> 00:21:31.270
Now you're going to hear Randy explain that he doesn't
915
00:21:31.270 --> 00:21:34.050
think it's humane and that he thinks it took his brother
916
00:21:34.390 --> 00:21:36.750
quite some time to actually die even after being shot,
917
00:21:36.770 --> 00:21:38.989
and he's gone over all the autopsy photos and it's,
918
00:21:39.229 --> 00:21:40.569
it's kind of a graphic conversation,
919
00:21:40.709 --> 00:21:42.140
but I think it's relevant to all of this.
920
00:21:42.489 --> 00:21:43.060
Before I get into it,
921
00:21:43.069 --> 00:21:44.449
let me just explain to you what
922
00:21:44.910 --> 00:21:45.930
Ronnie Gardner did,
923
00:21:46.650 --> 00:21:46.660
um,
924
00:21:46.709 --> 00:21:47.589
which he has an
925
00:21:47.869 --> 00:21:49.270
extensive criminal history,
926
00:21:49.390 --> 00:21:50.170
very bad,
927
00:21:50.770 --> 00:21:50.780
uh,
928
00:21:50.790 --> 00:21:54.109
1984 murder of Melvin Otterstrom.
929
00:21:54.439 --> 00:21:55.060
Um,
930
00:21:55.369 --> 00:21:57.189
when Gardner shot and killed
931
00:21:57.339 --> 00:21:58.079
Melvin Otterstrom,
932
00:21:58.130 --> 00:22:00.750
who was a 30-year-old bartender and father during a robbery
933
00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:03.310
at the Cheers Tavern in Salt Lake City,
934
00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:03.619
uh,
935
00:22:03.890 --> 00:22:05.709
and Gardner was arrested for homicide.
936
00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:07.000
And then,
937
00:22:07.089 --> 00:22:08.770
and then in 1985,
938
00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:10.189
he murdered someone again
939
00:22:10.449 --> 00:22:11.729
named Michael Burdell,
940
00:22:11.890 --> 00:22:14.109
and this was during a courthouse escape attempt.
941
00:22:14.930 --> 00:22:18.130
He was being escorted into Salt Lake City courthouse for a hearing.
942
00:22:18.530 --> 00:22:18.829
Uh,
943
00:22:18.939 --> 00:22:20.380
regarding the murder that he was,
944
00:22:20.459 --> 00:22:20.869
you know,
945
00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:22.040
in trouble for
946
00:22:22.300 --> 00:22:24.020
when he smuggled a revolver in,
947
00:22:24.300 --> 00:22:25.459
attempted a violent breakout,
948
00:22:25.540 --> 00:22:26.800
and during the escape attempt,
949
00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:27.430
uh,
950
00:22:27.699 --> 00:22:31.000
he shot and killed 30 seven-year-old defense attorney Michael Burdell,
951
00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:31.569
uh,
952
00:22:31.699 --> 00:22:32.939
who was there on an unrelated case,
953
00:22:32.979 --> 00:22:35.219
and then he also shot and critically wounded the bailiff,
954
00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:36.969
someone named Nick Kirk.
955
00:22:37.459 --> 00:22:38.060
So
956
00:22:38.619 --> 00:22:39.619
this man,
957
00:22:39.869 --> 00:22:40.410
um,
958
00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:41.979
Ronnie Gardner.
959
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:45.280
Has an extensive criminal history and killed multiple people
960
00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:46.910
and you'll hear his brother say,
961
00:22:47.300 --> 00:22:48.020
Ronnie Gardner,
962
00:22:48.219 --> 00:22:52.079
the brother says actually wanted the death penalty for himself at one point.
963
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:52.689
Um,
964
00:22:52.780 --> 00:22:53.339
so it's,
965
00:22:53.540 --> 00:22:56.140
it's an interesting conversation and um.
966
00:22:56.689 --> 00:22:57.380
It it's a lot,
967
00:22:57.459 --> 00:23:00.119
but I want you guys to hear it because I think it's important kind of
968
00:23:00.300 --> 00:23:02.060
with the broader topic that we've been talking
969
00:23:02.060 --> 00:23:04.060
about ever since I started covering Christa Pike.
970
00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:06.849
So here's my conversation um with Randy Gardner.
971
00:23:06.979 --> 00:23:07.099
Uh,
972
00:23:07.180 --> 00:23:07.459
Randy,
973
00:23:07.540 --> 00:23:09.599
I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me.
974
00:23:09.780 --> 00:23:09.969
Um,
975
00:23:09.979 --> 00:23:11.569
I was reading about your,
976
00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:13.439
you and your brother's story,
977
00:23:13.989 --> 00:23:15.550
cause I've been doing a lot of work on that.
978
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:17.719
Have you seen what happened with Christa Pike in Tennessee?
979
00:23:17.780 --> 00:23:19.079
Have you been following that at all?
980
00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:19.739
Yeah,
981
00:23:19.810 --> 00:23:20.239
of course,
982
00:23:20.540 --> 00:23:20.920
yeah.
983
00:23:21.339 --> 00:23:21.579
Yeah,
984
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:21.780
and,
985
00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:23.760
and a lot of people have been.
986
00:23:24.510 --> 00:23:24.719
You know,
987
00:23:24.959 --> 00:23:27.390
saying that that these lethal injections are,
988
00:23:27.510 --> 00:23:30.000
are not humane because they're only using one
989
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.949
drug now when they used to use multiple,
990
00:23:31.959 --> 00:23:36.619
and we've seen now this is the second one that's failed just this year in
991
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:37.739
Tennessee.
992
00:23:38.109 --> 00:23:38.530
Um,
993
00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:40.079
and I've heard from several people,
994
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:40.359
oh,
995
00:23:40.510 --> 00:23:42.819
that firing squad is the more
996
00:23:43.040 --> 00:23:44.020
humane option,
997
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:44.839
uh,
998
00:23:44.939 --> 00:23:45.839
but you actually have,
999
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:46.079
you know,
1000
00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:47.939
your brother was executed
1001
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:49.800
with the firing squad back in,
1002
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:50.030
um,
1003
00:23:50.199 --> 00:23:51.119
it was 2010,
1004
00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:51.910
1st one in,
1005
00:23:51.989 --> 00:23:52.229
was it,
1006
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:53.319
I think 14 years,
1007
00:23:53.390 --> 00:23:53.780
right?
1008
00:23:54.280 --> 00:23:54.800
Correct,
1009
00:23:54.959 --> 00:23:55.339
yeah,
1010
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:56.040
so you,
1011
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:56.599
you know,
1012
00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:57.989
you unfortunately
1013
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.300
experienced that,
1014
00:23:59.319 --> 00:23:59.680
um,
1015
00:23:59.859 --> 00:24:00.760
and what are your thoughts?
1016
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:01.300
I mean,
1017
00:24:01.560 --> 00:24:02.339
on the whole thing.
1018
00:24:04.109 --> 00:24:04.489
Um,
1019
00:24:04.510 --> 00:24:04.869
you know what,
1020
00:24:04.949 --> 00:24:06.050
with lethal injection,
1021
00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:06.930
I think they've
1022
00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:10.180
found out over the last at least 100 executions,
1023
00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:11.949
no matter what drug they're using,
1024
00:24:12.469 --> 00:24:12.689
uh,
1025
00:24:12.770 --> 00:24:16.130
it kind of covers up what's really happening to the body physically.
1026
00:24:16.479 --> 00:24:16.670
Uh,
1027
00:24:16.750 --> 00:24:18.489
they've done autopsy photos
1028
00:24:18.750 --> 00:24:20.329
or autopsy reports.
1029
00:24:21.150 --> 00:24:22.469
The defense has had one,
1030
00:24:22.670 --> 00:24:22.890
Adam,
1031
00:24:23.229 --> 00:24:23.510
you know,
1032
00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:23.780
the,
1033
00:24:23.849 --> 00:24:26.650
the state always does an autopsy report because
1034
00:24:26.900 --> 00:24:27.689
it's homicide,
1035
00:24:28.339 --> 00:24:30.530
but then they've had alternative ones that
1036
00:24:31.189 --> 00:24:33.869
they've had done where people are literally drowning.
1037
00:24:34.439 --> 00:24:35.680
No matter what drug they're using,
1038
00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:35.959
you know,
1039
00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:37.380
they find this throth and
1040
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:39.380
stuff in their throat and in their lungs,
1041
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:41.900
so I think as far as lethal injection
1042
00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:42.479
goes,
1043
00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:43.349
it's,
1044
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.180
it's always been bad.
1045
00:24:45.239 --> 00:24:47.349
It just covers up and it makes you unconscious,
1046
00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:48.939
so they don't know what's happening,
1047
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:50.020
um,
1048
00:24:50.670 --> 00:24:52.239
as far as the firing squad.
1049
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:54.380
I have a feeling
1050
00:24:55.069 --> 00:24:57.839
people or or states are gonna start coming back to that,
1051
00:24:58.199 --> 00:24:59.500
because it does sound like
1052
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:01.219
it may be the quickest
1053
00:25:01.869 --> 00:25:02.560
uh
1054
00:25:03.199 --> 00:25:04.530
way to execute somebody.
1055
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:08.300
I don't honestly think there is any humane way to execute anybody.
1056
00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:11.560
I have seen the autopsy photos of my brother,
1057
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:12.479
and it's not,
1058
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:13.880
there's nothing humane about it,
1059
00:25:13.959 --> 00:25:14.199
you know,
1060
00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:15.020
it's uh
1061
00:25:16.420 --> 00:25:18.209
It's blood and and guts,
1062
00:25:18.219 --> 00:25:19.739
and in the front and out the back.
1063
00:25:19.819 --> 00:25:21.800
My brother was executed with
1064
00:25:22.540 --> 00:25:23.880
4 live rounds.
1065
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:25.260
Uh,
1066
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.959
he moved up to like 45 seconds after that,
1067
00:25:28.040 --> 00:25:29.099
the state of Utah
1068
00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:31.020
was deciding if they were gonna have to
1069
00:25:31.520 --> 00:25:32.829
do another 4 rounds,
1070
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:32.910
that,
1071
00:25:33.040 --> 00:25:33.239
you know,
1072
00:25:33.349 --> 00:25:34.369
they actually have 5
1073
00:25:34.959 --> 00:25:35.280
shooters,
1074
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:36.739
and one of them is a blank to,
1075
00:25:37.170 --> 00:25:39.000
so the person don't actually know
1076
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:40.349
who executed them,
1077
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:40.760
but,
1078
00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:41.479
um,
1079
00:25:41.520 --> 00:25:41.599
yeah,
1080
00:25:41.719 --> 00:25:43.030
looking at the autopsy photos,
1081
00:25:43.040 --> 00:25:43.680
it's not pretty,
1082
00:25:43.719 --> 00:25:44.500
and it's not,
1083
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:45.420
it's,
1084
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:46.260
it's
1085
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.020
very gruesome and
1086
00:25:48.439 --> 00:25:49.209
inhumane,
1087
00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:50.359
as far as I'm concerned,
1088
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:50.739
and
1089
00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:51.709
You know,
1090
00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:52.989
and they have the electric chair,
1091
00:25:53.030 --> 00:25:53.790
and then they have
1092
00:25:54.069 --> 00:25:54.589
the gas,
1093
00:25:54.670 --> 00:25:55.109
the night,
1094
00:25:55.349 --> 00:25:56.750
the hypoxia,
1095
00:25:57.150 --> 00:25:57.349
you know,
1096
00:25:57.469 --> 00:25:57.930
they're,
1097
00:25:58.510 --> 00:25:59.729
they're just shooting
1098
00:26:00.380 --> 00:26:01.430
for a way to
1099
00:26:03.099 --> 00:26:04.140
Execute these people,
1100
00:26:04.189 --> 00:26:06.239
and it's more of a revenge thing than
1101
00:26:06.760 --> 00:26:07.819
than I would think of anything,
1102
00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:08.560
you know.
1103
00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:09.880
I'm honestly
1104
00:26:10.709 --> 00:26:11.949
More concerned about.
1105
00:26:13.219 --> 00:26:17.079
The people that are wanting these executions to go forward no matter what.
1106
00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:18.599
Um,
1107
00:26:19.099 --> 00:26:20.260
especially with Christa Pike,
1108
00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:20.839
you know,
1109
00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:21.920
that
1110
00:26:22.459 --> 00:26:26.800
director of the prison or whatever role he played that just resigned from his role,
1111
00:26:27.260 --> 00:26:27.709
uh,
1112
00:26:27.719 --> 00:26:27.729
he,
1113
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:29.119
he came from
1114
00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:32.819
Arizona and had problems in Arizona with executions.
1115
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:33.900
Same type of thing,
1116
00:26:33.979 --> 00:26:34.719
you know,
1117
00:26:35.260 --> 00:26:36.099
how they didn't know,
1118
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.119
they said they filed the or
1119
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:40.160
went by the protocol.
1120
00:26:40.699 --> 00:26:41.260
Uh,
1121
00:26:41.699 --> 00:26:44.489
she winced out and said that her arm was hurting.
1122
00:26:44.739 --> 00:26:45.400
At that point,
1123
00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:47.319
the protocol should have said.
1124
00:26:47.739 --> 00:26:47.939
You know,
1125
00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:48.770
check the IV,
1126
00:26:48.819 --> 00:26:49.479
make sure
1127
00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:51.219
they're going into her,
1128
00:26:51.739 --> 00:26:53.469
into her body and not into her arms.
1129
00:26:53.619 --> 00:26:53.959
So,
1130
00:26:54.380 --> 00:26:54.540
yeah,
1131
00:26:54.619 --> 00:26:55.239
I think,
1132
00:26:55.579 --> 00:26:56.500
I think it's
1133
00:26:57.430 --> 00:26:58.890
Pretty crazy that they're
1134
00:26:59.310 --> 00:27:01.209
still wanting to do this stuff in modern
1135
00:27:01.510 --> 00:27:02.449
modern days.
1136
00:27:03.560 --> 00:27:05.079
So your brother was moving for,
1137
00:27:05.199 --> 00:27:06.709
did you say 45 seconds?
1138
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:07.280
Yeah,
1139
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:07.640
they,
1140
00:27:07.760 --> 00:27:09.760
they said he's moving his fingers and hand.
1141
00:27:09.829 --> 00:27:11.819
He did this kind of thing after he was
1142
00:27:12.239 --> 00:27:12.760
shot,
1143
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:13.500
um,
1144
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.140
something he did a lot,
1145
00:27:15.199 --> 00:27:15.359
you know,
1146
00:27:15.439 --> 00:27:16.459
I don't know if that was.
1147
00:27:18.050 --> 00:27:20.290
I don't know if that was just a reaction or a movement,
1148
00:27:20.369 --> 00:27:21.150
but he was definitely
1149
00:27:21.689 --> 00:27:23.670
moving and they didn't pronounce him dead for
1150
00:27:24.439 --> 00:27:25.430
Like 2 minutes.
1151
00:27:25.489 --> 00:27:25.969
Um,
1152
00:27:26.089 --> 00:27:27.849
I don't know if that's just when they checked him.
1153
00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:29.829
I wasn't actually at the execution.
1154
00:27:30.530 --> 00:27:31.130
Um.
1155
00:27:32.069 --> 00:27:34.130
It was always my plan to be there,
1156
00:27:34.510 --> 00:27:35.670
and towards the end,
1157
00:27:35.750 --> 00:27:36.010
when,
1158
00:27:36.069 --> 00:27:38.770
when we really realized it was coming through,
1159
00:27:39.109 --> 00:27:40.329
it was gonna happen,
1160
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:41.790
my brother decided not,
1161
00:27:41.910 --> 00:27:42.910
he didn't want me to,
1162
00:27:43.510 --> 00:27:43.819
for that,
1163
00:27:43.829 --> 00:27:44.489
the last
1164
00:27:45.390 --> 00:27:46.530
thing for me to see,
1165
00:27:47.270 --> 00:27:49.630
and he just wanted me to remember the good times and stuff,
1166
00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:50.109
so
1167
00:27:50.270 --> 00:27:51.540
he didn't invite me to,
1168
00:27:51.550 --> 00:27:52.449
you have to be
1169
00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:54.160
asked to be part of,
1170
00:27:54.260 --> 00:27:54.430
you know,
1171
00:27:54.510 --> 00:27:55.670
to witness the execution,
1172
00:27:55.790 --> 00:27:56.209
but
1173
00:27:57.150 --> 00:27:58.030
I'm at that point also,
1174
00:27:58.109 --> 00:28:00.000
I didn't know I was gonna become an activist,
1175
00:28:00.150 --> 00:28:00.689
you know.
1176
00:28:01.469 --> 00:28:02.050
Um,
1177
00:28:02.150 --> 00:28:03.650
I think being there would have
1178
00:28:04.109 --> 00:28:05.650
gave my story a little more
1179
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:06.189
humph,
1180
00:28:06.229 --> 00:28:06.969
and that's
1181
00:28:07.349 --> 00:28:09.819
kind of why I got the autopsy photos,
1182
00:28:09.949 --> 00:28:10.359
um.
1183
00:28:11.979 --> 00:28:12.900
And that took,
1184
00:28:13.339 --> 00:28:13.780
I got,
1185
00:28:13.900 --> 00:28:15.250
I got the first set of
1186
00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:18.099
the autopsy report immediately after,
1187
00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:18.530
and
1188
00:28:18.739 --> 00:28:20.650
it was very vague and very short,
1189
00:28:20.660 --> 00:28:21.180
and
1190
00:28:21.459 --> 00:28:22.760
it took me about
1191
00:28:23.219 --> 00:28:26.369
6 years to even really want to see the real photos of it,
1192
00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:27.439
and I did have to.
1193
00:28:28.479 --> 00:28:29.819
Sign a release statement
1194
00:28:30.439 --> 00:28:31.859
saying these photos may cause
1195
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:35.660
harm or damage to the individual viewing or somewhat of that,
1196
00:28:36.060 --> 00:28:36.680
and they do,
1197
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:37.400
you know,
1198
00:28:37.630 --> 00:28:38.119
um.
1199
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.750
We also had those autopsy photos recently,
1200
00:28:41.810 --> 00:28:42.430
um,
1201
00:28:42.969 --> 00:28:45.670
looked at by another emergency physician,
1202
00:28:46.250 --> 00:28:47.010
and
1203
00:28:48.140 --> 00:28:49.689
He says the bullet,
1204
00:28:49.699 --> 00:28:50.819
even with my brother,
1205
00:28:51.099 --> 00:28:52.199
only one bullet
1206
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:53.920
grazed the side of his heart,
1207
00:28:53.979 --> 00:28:56.180
and the rest of them were over by underneath his arm and
1208
00:28:56.459 --> 00:28:57.060
on the side,
1209
00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:58.319
so they didn't even really
1210
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:00.000
Hit his heart,
1211
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:00.560
you know,
1212
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:01.939
they pin that little white
1213
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.459
uh
1214
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:05.079
material on your heart.
1215
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:07.099
They take your heartbeat and they pin that on your heart.
1216
00:29:07.560 --> 00:29:07.760
I mean,
1217
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:08.670
from 20 or whatever,
1218
00:29:08.750 --> 00:29:09.689
25 ft away,
1219
00:29:09.800 --> 00:29:10.219
how,
1220
00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:11.790
with a 30-30 rifle,
1221
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.260
how could anybody even miss
1222
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:14.400
something like that?
1223
00:29:14.479 --> 00:29:15.479
I'm not an expert shot,
1224
00:29:15.520 --> 00:29:17.400
and I guarantee I could hit the middle of a,
1225
00:29:17.689 --> 00:29:18.180
a heart,
1226
00:29:18.760 --> 00:29:18.949
you know,
1227
00:29:19.030 --> 00:29:19.719
on your chest,
1228
00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:20.760
a little pin target,
1229
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:21.180
so.
1230
00:29:21.709 --> 00:29:21.939
Yeah,
1231
00:29:22.089 --> 00:29:22.099
well,
1232
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:22.750
I don't know.
1233
00:29:22.829 --> 00:29:22.939
It,
1234
00:29:23.030 --> 00:29:24.270
it just stirred up more,
1235
00:29:24.630 --> 00:29:25.349
more emotions.
1236
00:29:25.390 --> 00:29:26.329
And then the one in
1237
00:29:26.550 --> 00:29:27.770
South Carolina,
1238
00:29:28.270 --> 00:29:29.619
it was supposed to be 3 bullets,
1239
00:29:29.630 --> 00:29:30.790
and they only found 2.
1240
00:29:30.869 --> 00:29:31.329
I mean,
1241
00:29:31.589 --> 00:29:33.140
there's all these questions that's coming up,
1242
00:29:33.189 --> 00:29:33.760
you know.
1243
00:29:34.310 --> 00:29:34.630
And then,
1244
00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:34.979
you know,
1245
00:29:35.030 --> 00:29:35.530
this
1246
00:29:35.770 --> 00:29:37.449
thing with Christa Pike is,
1247
00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:39.329
it's just crazy,
1248
00:29:39.430 --> 00:29:39.979
you know,
1249
00:29:40.229 --> 00:29:40.989
I've seen it coming.
1250
00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:42.290
I can't say we didn't,
1251
00:29:42.790 --> 00:29:43.069
you know,
1252
00:29:43.150 --> 00:29:44.229
I had a feeling that,
1253
00:29:44.469 --> 00:29:44.619
you know,
1254
00:29:44.709 --> 00:29:45.209
people are saying,
1255
00:29:45.270 --> 00:29:45.420
oh,
1256
00:29:45.469 --> 00:29:49.410
they're just saying that she has this medical condition and she has small veins and
1257
00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:50.949
These people know what they're doing,
1258
00:29:51.069 --> 00:29:51.150
well,
1259
00:29:51.189 --> 00:29:52.329
they don't know what they're doing.
1260
00:29:52.750 --> 00:29:52.949
And,
1261
00:29:53.069 --> 00:29:53.989
and this is what happens,
1262
00:29:54.030 --> 00:29:55.670
you get a botched execution and,
1263
00:29:55.949 --> 00:29:56.489
you know.
1264
00:29:57.839 --> 00:29:58.270
What's,
1265
00:29:58.280 --> 00:29:58.739
what,
1266
00:29:59.439 --> 00:30:00.020
going forward,
1267
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:00.599
I don't know what,
1268
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:01.819
I don't know what's gonna happen.
1269
00:30:01.910 --> 00:30:02.380
Um,
1270
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:03.530
I'm against.
1271
00:30:04.339 --> 00:30:05.739
Any and all executions.
1272
00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:06.280
I
1273
00:30:06.699 --> 00:30:09.359
think uh life without parole is a much better option,
1274
00:30:09.380 --> 00:30:09.709
and
1275
00:30:10.349 --> 00:30:11.359
And even
1276
00:30:12.140 --> 00:30:13.140
Further than that,
1277
00:30:13.219 --> 00:30:14.300
I think some people,
1278
00:30:14.420 --> 00:30:15.119
not all,
1279
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:18.780
some people can be rehabilitated and reformed and
1280
00:30:20.109 --> 00:30:21.390
Come back into a public life.
1281
00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:22.790
Most people that kill somebody don't,
1282
00:30:22.910 --> 00:30:23.569
don't do it,
1283
00:30:24.030 --> 00:30:24.430
you know,
1284
00:30:24.630 --> 00:30:25.489
more than once.
1285
00:30:26.869 --> 00:30:27.420
So,
1286
00:30:27.469 --> 00:30:28.270
um,
1287
00:30:28.790 --> 00:30:28.949
your,
1288
00:30:29.069 --> 00:30:30.569
did your brother have a choice
1289
00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:33.369
between lethal injection and firing squad?
1290
00:30:33.829 --> 00:30:33.989
He,
1291
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:35.349
he did have a choice,
1292
00:30:35.479 --> 00:30:35.910
um,
1293
00:30:36.069 --> 00:30:36.729
and he,
1294
00:30:37.229 --> 00:30:38.290
he went back and forth,
1295
00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:39.189
but he,
1296
00:30:39.589 --> 00:30:40.359
he eventually,
1297
00:30:40.430 --> 00:30:42.709
he stuck with the firing squad.
1298
00:30:43.069 --> 00:30:43.579
He actually,
1299
00:30:43.589 --> 00:30:45.310
even at that time in 2010,
1300
00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:47.829
had me do some research on lethal injection,
1301
00:30:48.310 --> 00:30:48.839
and
1302
00:30:50.199 --> 00:30:52.640
He thought the firing squad would definitely be quicker,
1303
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:54.260
and that was his main,
1304
00:30:54.270 --> 00:30:54.640
main choice.
1305
00:30:54.699 --> 00:30:55.189
There's,
1306
00:30:55.479 --> 00:30:57.099
there's stories that come out
1307
00:30:57.709 --> 00:30:58.099
saying
1308
00:30:58.739 --> 00:31:00.060
blood atonement and,
1309
00:31:00.290 --> 00:31:00.790
you know,
1310
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:02.099
all kinds of different things,
1311
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.719
but
1312
00:31:03.280 --> 00:31:05.359
he basically chose the firing squad,
1313
00:31:05.439 --> 00:31:05.680
I think,
1314
00:31:05.719 --> 00:31:06.589
for two reasons.
1315
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:07.069
One,
1316
00:31:07.280 --> 00:31:09.000
because he shot his victim with a gun,
1317
00:31:09.040 --> 00:31:09.589
and he,
1318
00:31:09.800 --> 00:31:10.560
he himself thought,
1319
00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:11.099
well,
1320
00:31:11.479 --> 00:31:12.339
I deserve,
1321
00:31:12.719 --> 00:31:13.709
if I'm gonna get executed,
1322
00:31:13.719 --> 00:31:16.579
I deserve to be the same thing I've done to somebody else.
1323
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:17.750
Um,
1324
00:31:18.219 --> 00:31:19.579
and then he just thought it would be quicker.
1325
00:31:20.599 --> 00:31:21.119
You know,
1326
00:31:22.790 --> 00:31:24.099
Did you talk about it a lot,
1327
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:24.560
like his,
1328
00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:25.939
like what what decision,
1329
00:31:26.250 --> 00:31:27.119
which way to go?
1330
00:31:27.959 --> 00:31:28.359
Oh yeah,
1331
00:31:28.479 --> 00:31:31.479
we talked about it for 25 years that he was on death row,
1332
00:31:31.560 --> 00:31:31.790
you know,
1333
00:31:32.479 --> 00:31:32.939
we
1334
00:31:33.849 --> 00:31:34.979
We talked about it a lot.
1335
00:31:35.060 --> 00:31:35.420
He didn't,
1336
00:31:35.569 --> 00:31:35.819
you know,
1337
00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:37.199
the only reason he chose,
1338
00:31:37.219 --> 00:31:38.839
was gonna choose a couple times
1339
00:31:39.300 --> 00:31:40.479
not to do the firing squad,
1340
00:31:40.489 --> 00:31:42.079
because he knew how gruesome it'd be.
1341
00:31:42.459 --> 00:31:44.479
He'd been shot before in his life.
1342
00:31:44.979 --> 00:31:45.140
Uh,
1343
00:31:45.239 --> 00:31:46.540
he knew what the pain was and,
1344
00:31:46.650 --> 00:31:47.140
and suffering,
1345
00:31:47.260 --> 00:31:48.520
but because he had a couple,
1346
00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:49.329
2 kids,
1347
00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:49.739
and
1348
00:31:50.060 --> 00:31:51.579
he thought that would be harder for them,
1349
00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:51.810
and,
1350
00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:52.880
and it was,
1351
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:54.000
you know,
1352
00:31:54.380 --> 00:31:54.900
um.
1353
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:56.739
But yeah,
1354
00:31:56.849 --> 00:31:57.160
he,
1355
00:31:57.300 --> 00:31:58.800
he pretty much,
1356
00:31:59.540 --> 00:32:01.380
pretty much stuck with the firing squad.
1357
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:01.869
He's
1358
00:32:03.260 --> 00:32:03.660
Um,
1359
00:32:03.739 --> 00:32:03.900
he,
1360
00:32:04.060 --> 00:32:04.540
I don't know if,
1361
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:05.939
he knew how bad it would really look.
1362
00:32:06.040 --> 00:32:06.599
I mean,
1363
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:07.979
when I first looked at him,
1364
00:32:08.060 --> 00:32:08.719
when they
1365
00:32:09.469 --> 00:32:11.699
After they did the autopsy,
1366
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:13.030
I wanted to look at it.
1367
00:32:13.069 --> 00:32:15.150
They gave us an opportunity to spend time with him,
1368
00:32:15.199 --> 00:32:16.060
and I went to the
1369
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:17.079
mortuary,
1370
00:32:17.130 --> 00:32:18.619
and when my niece and nephew
1371
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:19.599
were out of the room,
1372
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:20.760
I unzipped the bag.
1373
00:32:20.829 --> 00:32:22.040
It was just his head in there,
1374
00:32:22.310 --> 00:32:23.819
so I wanted to look at his chest,
1375
00:32:24.520 --> 00:32:25.050
and
1376
00:32:25.739 --> 00:32:27.119
I zipped it down and
1377
00:32:27.540 --> 00:32:28.010
looked at it,
1378
00:32:28.020 --> 00:32:29.560
and it seriously looked like
1379
00:32:30.050 --> 00:32:30.989
4 holes,
1380
00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:31.660
you know,
1381
00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:34.380
a bowling ball with an extra hole is what it reminded me of.
1382
00:32:34.439 --> 00:32:35.079
It was just
1383
00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:35.819
gross,
1384
00:32:35.890 --> 00:32:36.619
but at that point,
1385
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:36.939
I thought,
1386
00:32:37.020 --> 00:32:37.119
well,
1387
00:32:37.180 --> 00:32:37.859
they're in his chest.
1388
00:32:37.979 --> 00:32:38.829
At least they didn't
1389
00:32:39.089 --> 00:32:40.199
hit his arm or
1390
00:32:40.449 --> 00:32:42.209
hit him in the head or hit him in the leg,
1391
00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:43.650
trying to make it prolong it,
1392
00:32:43.780 --> 00:32:44.479
but uh.
1393
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:46.819
Yeah,
1394
00:32:46.890 --> 00:32:47.260
it was,
1395
00:32:47.380 --> 00:32:48.260
it was pretty horrendous,
1396
00:32:48.300 --> 00:32:51.979
and sadly his kids walked into the room at that same time and seen it,
1397
00:32:51.989 --> 00:32:52.359
and
1398
00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:54.989
That was what I was trying to avoid,
1399
00:32:55.130 --> 00:32:55.489
but.
1400
00:32:56.689 --> 00:32:59.050
What made you decide to want to see that,
1401
00:32:59.109 --> 00:33:00.130
to unzip it?
1402
00:33:01.910 --> 00:33:05.290
I want to see if they really hit his chest or hit his heart.
1403
00:33:06.170 --> 00:33:06.369
You know,
1404
00:33:06.449 --> 00:33:07.890
I've heard of box executions.
1405
00:33:07.969 --> 00:33:10.680
I've heard of firing squad back in the old days,
1406
00:33:10.729 --> 00:33:11.050
and
1407
00:33:11.329 --> 00:33:12.270
I've heard where they,
1408
00:33:12.729 --> 00:33:15.239
people moved or something and they didn't hit their heart.
1409
00:33:15.329 --> 00:33:16.430
One guy took an hour
1410
00:33:17.170 --> 00:33:17.709
to die,
1411
00:33:17.849 --> 00:33:19.719
so it's not like it's,
1412
00:33:20.170 --> 00:33:21.310
it's foolproof,
1413
00:33:21.609 --> 00:33:22.170
you know.
1414
00:33:22.430 --> 00:33:24.989
And them not hitting his heart tells me that.
1415
00:33:25.780 --> 00:33:26.640
Probably,
1416
00:33:27.020 --> 00:33:28.439
they did that purposely
1417
00:33:28.660 --> 00:33:29.819
to make him suffer a little more.
1418
00:33:29.890 --> 00:33:30.060
I mean,
1419
00:33:30.099 --> 00:33:30.660
there was,
1420
00:33:31.089 --> 00:33:31.219
you know,
1421
00:33:31.300 --> 00:33:34.780
and the holes in the back of his chest was clear over on the side under his arm,
1422
00:33:34.939 --> 00:33:35.239
so,
1423
00:33:35.540 --> 00:33:35.739
you know,
1424
00:33:35.939 --> 00:33:37.359
shooting at a straight angle,
1425
00:33:37.739 --> 00:33:38.739
which I'm sure they,
1426
00:33:39.089 --> 00:33:40.319
I'm sure it was
1427
00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:42.020
pretty straight angle,
1428
00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:42.619
you know,
1429
00:33:42.780 --> 00:33:44.180
for the holes to be clear over,
1430
00:33:44.219 --> 00:33:44.859
missing his
1431
00:33:45.020 --> 00:33:45.699
missing his heart,
1432
00:33:45.859 --> 00:33:46.250
3 of them,
1433
00:33:46.290 --> 00:33:46.739
and then
1434
00:33:46.939 --> 00:33:48.239
coming out the back under
1435
00:33:48.699 --> 00:33:49.400
part of his arm.
1436
00:33:50.489 --> 00:33:50.969
You know,
1437
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:51.939
it's just,
1438
00:33:52.369 --> 00:33:53.030
I think
1439
00:33:53.170 --> 00:33:54.810
the people involved that that
1440
00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:56.709
volunteered to do this stuff,
1441
00:33:57.250 --> 00:33:58.349
I'm worried about them too,
1442
00:33:58.410 --> 00:33:58.650
you know,
1443
00:33:58.750 --> 00:34:00.290
they may think it's the law and
1444
00:34:00.530 --> 00:34:01.530
somebody's gotta do it,
1445
00:34:01.569 --> 00:34:01.900
or,
1446
00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:02.770
you know.
1447
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:04.510
I don't think so.
1448
00:34:05.020 --> 00:34:05.520
I think,
1449
00:34:05.530 --> 00:34:05.969
uh,
1450
00:34:06.449 --> 00:34:08.389
all the laws we have in this land,
1451
00:34:08.969 --> 00:34:09.958
just because they're the law,
1452
00:34:10.080 --> 00:34:10.949
don't make them right.
1453
00:34:10.969 --> 00:34:11.280
And,
1454
00:34:11.489 --> 00:34:13.780
and to me the whole thing is a moral issue,
1455
00:34:14.129 --> 00:34:14.790
you know,
1456
00:34:15.129 --> 00:34:17.989
why do we kill people who kill people that show that killing is wrong?
1457
00:34:19.129 --> 00:34:19.580
I
1458
00:34:20.389 --> 00:34:22.159
After my brother was executed,
1459
00:34:22.399 --> 00:34:23.090
I had a,
1460
00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:25.000
my daughter was about 6 years old,
1461
00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:25.879
my youngest daughter,
1462
00:34:25.958 --> 00:34:26.520
and
1463
00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:27.199
she's,
1464
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:29.760
I had that shirt on one day and she looks at me and she goes,
1465
00:34:31.179 --> 00:34:31.649
Why do we,
1466
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:31.938
Dad?
1467
00:34:32.050 --> 00:34:32.949
That just don't make sense.
1468
00:34:33.070 --> 00:34:33.260
Why,
1469
00:34:33.379 --> 00:34:35.239
why do we kill people who kill people to
1470
00:34:35.458 --> 00:34:36.458
show that killing is wrong?
1471
00:34:36.580 --> 00:34:37.219
It's just,
1472
00:34:37.580 --> 00:34:38.060
what do you say,
1473
00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:38.340
you know,
1474
00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:39.010
kids are
1475
00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:39.620
innocent,
1476
00:34:39.649 --> 00:34:41.860
and I think they see things for what it is.
1477
00:34:42.870 --> 00:34:42.879
Um,
1478
00:34:44.250 --> 00:34:44.668
yeah,
1479
00:34:44.989 --> 00:34:45.070
yeah,
1480
00:34:45.149 --> 00:34:45.820
it's a,
1481
00:34:46.110 --> 00:34:46.949
it's a tough issue.
1482
00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:47.409
I mean,
1483
00:34:47.590 --> 00:34:47.790
you know,
1484
00:34:47.870 --> 00:34:48.270
I
1485
00:34:48.879 --> 00:34:49.780
I don't know
1486
00:34:49.918 --> 00:34:51.070
how I would feel if,
1487
00:34:51.120 --> 00:34:51.438
uh,
1488
00:34:51.600 --> 00:34:51.719
you know,
1489
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:52.310
I'm a journalist,
1490
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:53.760
so I don't really give my opinion,
1491
00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:55.918
and this is a tricky one anyway with the death penalty,
1492
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:56.159
you know,
1493
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:57.350
how you feel about it,
1494
00:34:57.399 --> 00:34:57.590
but I,
1495
00:34:57.600 --> 00:34:58.899
I guess I just wonder,
1496
00:34:59.239 --> 00:34:59.399
you know,
1497
00:34:59.479 --> 00:35:00.620
if you had
1498
00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:02.669
a loved one killed,
1499
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:04.560
or like if someone killed my mom or someone,
1500
00:35:04.600 --> 00:35:04.870
you know,
1501
00:35:04.959 --> 00:35:06.179
really dear to me,
1502
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:06.760
I,
1503
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:07.280
I don't know,
1504
00:35:07.340 --> 00:35:07.860
like
1505
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.560
maybe you do want the person who did that
1506
00:35:11.040 --> 00:35:11.439
dead,
1507
00:35:11.560 --> 00:35:12.179
you know.
1508
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:12.860
Yeah,
1509
00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:13.639
and you know,
1510
00:35:13.699 --> 00:35:14.669
I've been asked that
1511
00:35:14.939 --> 00:35:16.340
hundreds of times and
1512
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.860
I can honestly say that.
1513
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:20.320
For one,
1514
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:20.899
if somebody
1515
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:22.149
ever murders me,
1516
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:23.600
I don't want them to be executed.
1517
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:24.560
My kids all know that.
1518
00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:26.070
I have 5 kids and they know
1519
00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:27.189
beyond a shadow of a doubt,
1520
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:28.820
Dad would not want this.
1521
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:29.800
Um.
1522
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:31.120
Of course,
1523
00:35:31.219 --> 00:35:33.139
my kids living with this in their life,
1524
00:35:33.399 --> 00:35:33.600
you know,
1525
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:37.179
there's been a couple of my kids that were were still on the fence for a while there,
1526
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:38.270
and,
1527
00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:38.719
you know,
1528
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:41.959
what happened is I got educated more about the death penalty,
1529
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:42.719
and
1530
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.620
hence they got educated more about the death penalty,
1531
00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:46.139
so,
1532
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:47.429
um.
1533
00:35:48.689 --> 00:35:49.169
I don't,
1534
00:35:49.330 --> 00:35:50.070
I don't.
1535
00:35:50.649 --> 00:35:51.629
If someone
1536
00:35:51.969 --> 00:35:54.350
raped and murdered one of my daughters.
1537
00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:55.419
Yeah,
1538
00:35:55.629 --> 00:35:57.419
spontaneous reaction or,
1539
00:35:57.580 --> 00:35:57.860
you know,
1540
00:35:57.979 --> 00:35:58.800
I probably would
1541
00:35:59.020 --> 00:35:59.919
wish they were dead.
1542
00:36:00.610 --> 00:36:01.090
But
1543
00:36:01.899 --> 00:36:02.489
Um,
1544
00:36:02.659 --> 00:36:03.800
I don't think
1545
00:36:04.179 --> 00:36:04.580
I would,
1546
00:36:04.659 --> 00:36:07.239
I would not advocate for them to get the death penalty.
1547
00:36:07.580 --> 00:36:08.909
I think life in prison,
1548
00:36:09.020 --> 00:36:09.500
honestly,
1549
00:36:09.540 --> 00:36:11.149
is probably a harsher punishment.
1550
00:36:11.939 --> 00:36:12.550
Um,
1551
00:36:14.129 --> 00:36:14.590
Some
1552
00:36:15.879 --> 00:36:16.229
Yeah,
1553
00:36:16.370 --> 00:36:16.479
yeah,
1554
00:36:16.600 --> 00:36:17.040
I just,
1555
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:17.320
I,
1556
00:36:17.479 --> 00:36:18.560
I honestly say I wouldn't,
1557
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:20.080
I don't want nothing like that to happen.
1558
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.719
I have had,
1559
00:36:20.959 --> 00:36:21.879
I have had a
1560
00:36:22.669 --> 00:36:23.770
One of my nephews,
1561
00:36:23.870 --> 00:36:24.179
uh,
1562
00:36:24.399 --> 00:36:27.189
be involved in with murdering one of my other nephews,
1563
00:36:27.750 --> 00:36:28.110
so I do,
1564
00:36:28.229 --> 00:36:29.770
I have experienced that,
1565
00:36:30.270 --> 00:36:30.770
um.
1566
00:36:32.330 --> 00:36:33.189
My nephew
1567
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:34.719
that was involved in it,
1568
00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:36.510
it was a gang-related thing.
1569
00:36:36.889 --> 00:36:37.830
They thought my
1570
00:36:38.570 --> 00:36:39.209
other nephew,
1571
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:40.370
nephew in-law,
1572
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:41.570
thought he
1573
00:36:41.770 --> 00:36:42.919
stole some drugs,
1574
00:36:42.929 --> 00:36:43.229
and
1575
00:36:43.989 --> 00:36:45.969
A white supremacist gang and they ended up
1576
00:36:47.110 --> 00:36:48.010
holding him and
1577
00:36:48.540 --> 00:36:50.570
punishing him for a couple of days and then
1578
00:36:51.070 --> 00:36:53.070
ended up throwing a big rock on his head and killing him.
1579
00:36:53.110 --> 00:36:53.550
So I do,
1580
00:36:53.780 --> 00:36:55.300
I know both sides and I feel it,
1581
00:36:55.310 --> 00:36:56.010
and I didn't,
1582
00:36:56.370 --> 00:36:56.540
you know,
1583
00:36:56.629 --> 00:36:57.330
I was
1584
00:36:58.649 --> 00:37:00.209
I was torn over both of it,
1585
00:37:00.330 --> 00:37:00.729
but,
1586
00:37:01.169 --> 00:37:03.510
and I was mad at my nephew and
1587
00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:05.070
disappointed,
1588
00:37:05.139 --> 00:37:05.590
and,
1589
00:37:05.850 --> 00:37:06.429
but
1590
00:37:07.010 --> 00:37:07.929
he's out of prison now.
1591
00:37:07.969 --> 00:37:10.510
He did like 1516 years in prison.
1592
00:37:11.310 --> 00:37:13.169
I don't really have much to do with him.
1593
00:37:13.250 --> 00:37:14.709
He moved to another state,
1594
00:37:15.090 --> 00:37:17.709
but I at no point did I ever want him to be
1595
00:37:17.929 --> 00:37:19.070
executed for it.
1596
00:37:19.919 --> 00:37:21.570
Was your brother remorseful?
1597
00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:24.350
You know what,
1598
00:37:24.429 --> 00:37:25.889
he grew up in the system,
1599
00:37:26.030 --> 00:37:27.189
since he was 10 years old,
1600
00:37:27.270 --> 00:37:28.959
he was locked up in the system.
1601
00:37:29.550 --> 00:37:31.510
He got put in a state mental hospital,
1602
00:37:31.550 --> 00:37:33.649
and I don't believe my brother had any
1603
00:37:33.870 --> 00:37:34.610
mental,
1604
00:37:35.429 --> 00:37:35.899
I mean,
1605
00:37:36.149 --> 00:37:38.030
definitely something's wrong if you kill somebody.
1606
00:37:38.110 --> 00:37:39.409
There's something not right.
1607
00:37:39.870 --> 00:37:40.389
Um.
1608
00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:42.439
So in the beginning,
1609
00:37:42.540 --> 00:37:44.000
a jury of his peers.
1610
00:37:44.870 --> 00:37:45.659
would have been,
1611
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:46.419
uh,
1612
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:49.709
jury of his peers would have been convict if he'd have,
1613
00:37:49.879 --> 00:37:50.570
I used to tell him that,
1614
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:50.750
well,
1615
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:52.899
you should tell him you want a jury of your peers,
1616
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:54.149
they'll all be convicts.
1617
00:37:54.189 --> 00:37:55.179
You'll probably be found
1618
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:56.540
not guilty or at least
1619
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:57.500
give you some.
1620
00:37:58.080 --> 00:37:58.620
But,
1621
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:00.189
so he kind of,
1622
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:01.560
for the first part,
1623
00:38:01.629 --> 00:38:02.909
15 years of his sentence,
1624
00:38:02.959 --> 00:38:05.350
he didn't really understand the damage that he did to people.
1625
00:38:05.439 --> 00:38:05.939
He just
1626
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:07.419
You know,
1627
00:38:07.540 --> 00:38:09.300
they were at the wrong place at the wrong time,
1628
00:38:09.379 --> 00:38:09.860
but
1629
00:38:10.179 --> 00:38:11.790
I think the last 10 years of his life,
1630
00:38:11.860 --> 00:38:12.060
I,
1631
00:38:12.179 --> 00:38:14.560
I ended up getting some property out in the middle of
1632
00:38:14.850 --> 00:38:15.219
nowhere,
1633
00:38:15.260 --> 00:38:15.919
and he
1634
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:18.280
always thought that would be a really good
1635
00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:21.320
thing for kids to go out there instead of these
1636
00:38:21.540 --> 00:38:22.520
hardcore
1637
00:38:23.020 --> 00:38:24.179
camps that they go into,
1638
00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:26.560
where they punish them and make them hike 25 miles.
1639
00:38:26.979 --> 00:38:27.139
Uh,
1640
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:27.870
we were gonna
1641
00:38:28.669 --> 00:38:31.179
Call it back to basics organic farm and ranch,
1642
00:38:31.459 --> 00:38:33.969
and they were gonna take these troubled kids and put them in this
1643
00:38:34.229 --> 00:38:34.989
youth facility,
1644
00:38:35.110 --> 00:38:37.229
non-lockup or non-punishment,
1645
00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:38.689
just a lifestyle,
1646
00:38:39.070 --> 00:38:39.699
and have them.
1647
00:38:39.790 --> 00:38:39.959
He,
1648
00:38:40.189 --> 00:38:41.370
he used to grow some stuff
1649
00:38:41.830 --> 00:38:42.909
in this prison cell,
1650
00:38:42.949 --> 00:38:43.469
like some apple.
1651
00:38:43.510 --> 00:38:45.729
He'd get an apple seed and grow it into a little
1652
00:38:46.070 --> 00:38:46.310
tree,
1653
00:38:46.350 --> 00:38:46.729
but
1654
00:38:47.189 --> 00:38:47.790
um.
1655
00:38:48.929 --> 00:38:50.179
Our last name is Gardner,
1656
00:38:51.260 --> 00:38:51.780
and he was a,
1657
00:38:51.899 --> 00:38:53.179
he was a pretty good gardener.
1658
00:38:53.580 --> 00:38:55.070
We gardened a lot and
1659
00:38:55.219 --> 00:38:56.540
had a lot of gardens growing up.
1660
00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.459
Yeah,
1661
00:38:57.540 --> 00:38:58.659
I think the last 10 years,
1662
00:38:58.669 --> 00:38:59.919
he was very remorseful.
1663
00:39:01.229 --> 00:39:01.459
Yeah,
1664
00:39:01.469 --> 00:39:01.669
uh,
1665
00:39:01.790 --> 00:39:02.300
did he tell you,
1666
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:02.520
I mean,
1667
00:39:02.580 --> 00:39:04.300
did he feel bad for the families,
1668
00:39:04.350 --> 00:39:04.629
and,
1669
00:39:04.750 --> 00:39:05.189
oh yeah,
1670
00:39:05.350 --> 00:39:05.469
yeah,
1671
00:39:05.580 --> 00:39:06.540
he felt bad for,
1672
00:39:06.830 --> 00:39:08.500
felt bad for the families of,
1673
00:39:08.620 --> 00:39:09.090
of
1674
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:10.320
the life he'd taken.
1675
00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:10.590
He,
1676
00:39:10.790 --> 00:39:12.649
and he actually killed two people.
1677
00:39:13.219 --> 00:39:16.290
He felt bad for putting us into this position.
1678
00:39:16.790 --> 00:39:17.370
Uh,
1679
00:39:17.870 --> 00:39:18.689
he never
1680
00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:19.969
really felt
1681
00:39:20.189 --> 00:39:22.590
bad for himself because he made that decision.
1682
00:39:23.330 --> 00:39:23.610
You know,
1683
00:39:23.689 --> 00:39:24.370
I wish he would have,
1684
00:39:24.409 --> 00:39:26.310
and I wish he would have forgiven himself,
1685
00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:27.250
um,
1686
00:39:27.370 --> 00:39:28.729
but I don't think he ever did,
1687
00:39:28.850 --> 00:39:30.030
but he did at least.
1688
00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:31.639
In the end,
1689
00:39:31.909 --> 00:39:33.979
accept responsibility and understand,
1690
00:39:34.560 --> 00:39:35.260
you know,
1691
00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:37.100
what was happening and why
1692
00:39:37.600 --> 00:39:38.300
he
1693
00:39:39.909 --> 00:39:41.189
was on the on the
1694
00:39:42.020 --> 00:39:42.889
cusp of
1695
00:39:43.189 --> 00:39:44.629
him believing in the death penalty.
1696
00:39:44.689 --> 00:39:45.530
I don't think
1697
00:39:45.909 --> 00:39:47.669
if he'd have learned what I've learned since,
1698
00:39:47.790 --> 00:39:49.590
I think that's the big thing with the death penalty.
1699
00:39:49.709 --> 00:39:50.010
Yeah,
1700
00:39:50.790 --> 00:39:51.070
uh,
1701
00:39:51.350 --> 00:39:52.540
you have to be educated,
1702
00:39:52.550 --> 00:39:54.820
and you have to be educated in all facets of it.
1703
00:39:54.870 --> 00:39:55.689
You can't just
1704
00:39:55.989 --> 00:39:57.110
know one part of it and,
1705
00:39:57.189 --> 00:39:58.250
and have a good opinion.
1706
00:39:59.290 --> 00:39:59.889
Um,
1707
00:40:00.090 --> 00:40:01.090
so even he was,
1708
00:40:01.250 --> 00:40:01.489
he,
1709
00:40:01.610 --> 00:40:03.409
he was for the death penalty
1710
00:40:03.610 --> 00:40:04.449
at one point.
1711
00:40:04.850 --> 00:40:05.129
Yeah,
1712
00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:05.570
he was,
1713
00:40:05.689 --> 00:40:06.209
he was,
1714
00:40:06.409 --> 00:40:08.310
he was pretty much for the death penalty
1715
00:40:08.649 --> 00:40:09.790
for himself even.
1716
00:40:10.290 --> 00:40:10.780
Yeah,
1717
00:40:11.129 --> 00:40:11.830
really?
1718
00:40:12.290 --> 00:40:12.550
Yeah,
1719
00:40:12.649 --> 00:40:13.629
that's interesting.
1720
00:40:14.169 --> 00:40:14.370
I mean,
1721
00:40:14.489 --> 00:40:14.600
he,
1722
00:40:14.610 --> 00:40:14.889
of course,
1723
00:40:14.929 --> 00:40:15.250
he wanted,
1724
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.879
he fought it,
1725
00:40:15.929 --> 00:40:16.370
you know.
1726
00:40:17.020 --> 00:40:17.729
That's what they do,
1727
00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:19.379
and that's what your attorneys want you to do,
1728
00:40:19.449 --> 00:40:19.989
and the attorneys,
1729
00:40:20.070 --> 00:40:21.310
but just one on one with you,
1730
00:40:21.389 --> 00:40:22.209
he was like,
1731
00:40:22.629 --> 00:40:23.959
he did he think he deserved it.
1732
00:40:24.100 --> 00:40:24.550
He was,
1733
00:40:24.669 --> 00:40:25.350
he was on that,
1734
00:40:25.469 --> 00:40:27.850
he was just on the cusp in the towards the end
1735
00:40:28.110 --> 00:40:28.679
and not
1736
00:40:28.909 --> 00:40:31.169
maybe because it was really gonna happen,
1737
00:40:31.709 --> 00:40:32.129
um,
1738
00:40:32.350 --> 00:40:32.629
but yeah,
1739
00:40:32.709 --> 00:40:33.810
when he was younger and,
1740
00:40:33.939 --> 00:40:34.560
and
1741
00:40:35.149 --> 00:40:36.370
even in his
1742
00:40:36.699 --> 00:40:38.459
The 1st 15 years on death row,
1743
00:40:38.540 --> 00:40:38.810
like I said,
1744
00:40:38.860 --> 00:40:40.540
he was locked up since he was 10 years old.
1745
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:41.060
Yeah,
1746
00:40:41.139 --> 00:40:41.379
he,
1747
00:40:41.580 --> 00:40:43.060
he kind of believed an eye for an eye.
1748
00:40:43.139 --> 00:40:43.469
He,
1749
00:40:43.659 --> 00:40:44.840
he killed somebody.
1750
00:40:45.139 --> 00:40:46.120
He took a life that,
1751
00:40:46.219 --> 00:40:46.729
you know,
1752
00:40:46.979 --> 00:40:48.020
it wasn't no big deal,
1753
00:40:48.100 --> 00:40:48.300
really.
1754
00:40:48.379 --> 00:40:48.709
He,
1755
00:40:48.939 --> 00:40:49.959
he deserved to
1756
00:40:50.580 --> 00:40:51.159
get the same
1757
00:40:51.620 --> 00:40:52.020
treatment,
1758
00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:52.459
so.
1759
00:40:53.850 --> 00:40:55.879
What made you stand by him all those years?
1760
00:40:55.939 --> 00:40:56.120
I mean,
1761
00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:56.780
were you
1762
00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:57.770
mad at him?
1763
00:40:57.860 --> 00:40:58.000
I mean,
1764
00:40:58.080 --> 00:40:58.159
like,
1765
00:40:58.239 --> 00:40:58.429
cause,
1766
00:40:58.639 --> 00:40:59.120
you know,
1767
00:40:59.320 --> 00:40:59.679
I don't know,
1768
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:00.239
like,
1769
00:41:00.520 --> 00:41:02.320
and then you saw his body after,
1770
00:41:02.399 --> 00:41:02.560
I mean,
1771
00:41:02.600 --> 00:41:04.040
you went through a lot because of this.
1772
00:41:04.120 --> 00:41:04.270
Like,
1773
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:05.860
did you ever feel anger towards him,
1774
00:41:05.879 --> 00:41:06.340
like
1775
00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:08.459
he kind of screwed up your life too?
1776
00:41:09.030 --> 00:41:09.709
Oh yeah,
1777
00:41:09.870 --> 00:41:10.310
yeah,
1778
00:41:10.510 --> 00:41:10.629
yeah,
1779
00:41:10.750 --> 00:41:11.060
I,
1780
00:41:11.350 --> 00:41:11.870
we went through all,
1781
00:41:11.949 --> 00:41:13.370
I went through all those emotions,
1782
00:41:13.790 --> 00:41:14.110
you know,
1783
00:41:14.270 --> 00:41:15.810
someone that's on death row that
1784
00:41:16.350 --> 00:41:17.429
does 25 years,
1785
00:41:17.469 --> 00:41:18.870
it's almost if you're close to him,
1786
00:41:18.909 --> 00:41:19.510
and he was,
1787
00:41:19.669 --> 00:41:20.780
he was 2 years younger than me,
1788
00:41:20.830 --> 00:41:21.610
we were close.
1789
00:41:22.070 --> 00:41:22.530
Um,
1790
00:41:22.669 --> 00:41:24.550
it's almost like you're doing time with them.
1791
00:41:25.530 --> 00:41:26.330
Um,
1792
00:41:26.739 --> 00:41:26.979
you know,
1793
00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:28.699
disrupted my normal life,
1794
00:41:28.780 --> 00:41:28.979
you know,
1795
00:41:29.060 --> 00:41:29.379
I,
1796
00:41:29.540 --> 00:41:30.320
I had some
1797
00:41:31.250 --> 00:41:32.530
Issues over myself.
1798
00:41:32.610 --> 00:41:34.889
I had some alcohol issues and some drug issues.
1799
00:41:35.010 --> 00:41:36.030
I don't know if it was
1800
00:41:36.530 --> 00:41:37.050
because of that,
1801
00:41:37.129 --> 00:41:37.439
but that,
1802
00:41:37.570 --> 00:41:37.729
you know,
1803
00:41:37.810 --> 00:41:39.110
that was a big part of it.
1804
00:41:39.649 --> 00:41:40.250
Um.
1805
00:41:42.389 --> 00:41:42.639
Yeah,
1806
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:42.919
yeah,
1807
00:41:43.080 --> 00:41:43.360
yeah,
1808
00:41:43.560 --> 00:41:44.739
you're taking care of them,
1809
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:45.959
whether they're locked up or not,
1810
00:41:46.040 --> 00:41:46.199
you know,
1811
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:47.159
you talk to them a lot,
1812
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:48.000
you get letters,
1813
00:41:48.080 --> 00:41:48.780
you go through.
1814
00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:52.260
Points where you do get mad at him and you don't talk
1815
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:54.780
because they say something or you say something they don't like.
1816
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:55.179
It's,
1817
00:41:55.419 --> 00:41:57.820
it's kind of like normal relationships you have out here,
1818
00:41:57.899 --> 00:41:58.399
but it's
1819
00:41:58.699 --> 00:41:59.419
long distance.
1820
00:41:59.459 --> 00:41:59.739
I've,
1821
00:41:59.939 --> 00:42:02.360
I visited him the full time he was in there.
1822
00:42:03.060 --> 00:42:03.739
Um,
1823
00:42:04.689 --> 00:42:05.399
Through,
1824
00:42:06.070 --> 00:42:06.370
through,
1825
00:42:06.459 --> 00:42:07.060
not even through,
1826
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:08.000
through glass,
1827
00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:08.419
no,
1828
00:42:08.540 --> 00:42:10.719
never got to touch him for the 25 years,
1829
00:42:10.929 --> 00:42:12.300
and he had no contact visits,
1830
00:42:12.379 --> 00:42:12.800
but
1831
00:42:13.729 --> 00:42:13.969
Yeah,
1832
00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:15.669
I was angry at him a lot and
1833
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:16.879
You know,
1834
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.360
I didn't understand my addictions at the time,
1835
00:42:19.399 --> 00:42:19.719
and,
1836
00:42:19.959 --> 00:42:20.510
and a lot of them,
1837
00:42:20.600 --> 00:42:20.840
he,
1838
00:42:20.959 --> 00:42:22.620
he thought was because of him,
1839
00:42:23.080 --> 00:42:23.320
you know,
1840
00:42:23.399 --> 00:42:23.750
you wouldn't,
1841
00:42:23.790 --> 00:42:25.479
if I didn't put you through this,
1842
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:26.540
you probably
1843
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:28.959
Wouldn't have all these addictions.
1844
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:30.110
I don't know if I believe that or not.
1845
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:30.520
I have,
1846
00:42:30.600 --> 00:42:33.419
I've had that addictive personality since I was pretty young.
1847
00:42:34.110 --> 00:42:34.659
Um,
1848
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:37.939
I am now over 33 years clean and sober.
1849
00:42:38.929 --> 00:42:39.120
Uh,
1850
00:42:39.129 --> 00:42:41.229
I do look at things a little different now,
1851
00:42:41.850 --> 00:42:42.129
you know,
1852
00:42:42.209 --> 00:42:43.879
I don't take everything so personal,
1853
00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:44.889
what happened.
1854
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:46.399
Um,
1855
00:42:47.439 --> 00:42:48.040
I forgive.
1856
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:49.120
I learned how to forgive,
1857
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.060
and that to me that's a very powerful,
1858
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:52.260
powerful word.
1859
00:42:52.560 --> 00:42:56.340
I was involved with the journey of hope from violence to healing for
1860
00:42:56.600 --> 00:42:57.179
8 years.
1861
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:58.689
I was on the board of directors.
1862
00:42:58.949 --> 00:43:00.449
Within about 1 year after I got
1863
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:01.820
after the execution.
1864
00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:02.520
I was
1865
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:03.580
hanging around with
1866
00:43:04.080 --> 00:43:04.510
victims,
1867
00:43:04.590 --> 00:43:06.620
family members that were on the board
1868
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:08.689
that had their loved ones murdered and
1869
00:43:09.739 --> 00:43:12.149
They were able to forgive the people that done it.
1870
00:43:12.219 --> 00:43:13.580
I never thought I'd be able to do that.
1871
00:43:13.659 --> 00:43:15.080
It took me seriously,
1872
00:43:15.929 --> 00:43:18.129
678 years for me finally to
1873
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:19.929
Get that real forgiveness.
1874
00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:20.979
Nice to tell,
1875
00:43:21.709 --> 00:43:22.159
uh,
1876
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:22.919
Bill Pelkey,
1877
00:43:22.989 --> 00:43:24.919
who's a founding member who's since passed away,
1878
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:25.179
but
1879
00:43:25.439 --> 00:43:26.070
I'm not getting it,
1880
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:26.320
Bill.
1881
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:26.739
I'm not,
1882
00:43:27.040 --> 00:43:28.270
you guys can forgive these people.
1883
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:29.379
I'm not forgiving
1884
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:31.600
the state of Utah for what they did to my brother.
1885
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:32.699
I was very angry.
1886
00:43:33.370 --> 00:43:33.610
Um,
1887
00:43:33.919 --> 00:43:36.280
I'd argue with people about the death penalty all the time.
1888
00:43:36.389 --> 00:43:36.510
Well,
1889
00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:37.020
it's
1890
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:38.320
unless you had it
1891
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:39.219
happen to you,
1892
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:39.709
you know,
1893
00:43:39.949 --> 00:43:41.260
you walked in my shoes,
1894
00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:42.120
you wouldn't,
1895
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:43.419
you don't know how I feel,
1896
00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:43.810
you know,
1897
00:43:43.909 --> 00:43:44.330
and.
1898
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:45.520
Yeah,
1899
00:43:45.560 --> 00:43:47.310
I think I woke up one morning and realized,
1900
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:47.520
you know,
1901
00:43:47.600 --> 00:43:50.469
I can really forgive that even the guards that shot my brother,
1902
00:43:50.550 --> 00:43:51.760
although I never know who they are.
1903
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.520
It's so
1904
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:54.979
shrouded in so much secrecy,
1905
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:56.040
and I've,
1906
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:58.860
I've used that forgiveness factor every day since
1907
00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:00.040
the last,
1908
00:44:00.439 --> 00:44:01.830
and it's very powerful.
1909
00:44:01.909 --> 00:44:02.560
It's to me,
1910
00:44:02.600 --> 00:44:04.340
it's almost as powerful as love.
1911
00:44:05.629 --> 00:44:09.129
Are there other people in your family like who um
1912
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:10.840
Like how did they react,
1913
00:44:10.919 --> 00:44:12.520
other people in your family to what happened,
1914
00:44:12.560 --> 00:44:15.189
and were there people who like wanted him to be executed,
1915
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:15.939
or?
1916
00:44:16.479 --> 00:44:16.689
Yeah,
1917
00:44:16.820 --> 00:44:17.010
there,
1918
00:44:17.120 --> 00:44:20.560
there's a couple members in my family that still believe that
1919
00:44:21.120 --> 00:44:21.820
he was,
1920
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:22.760
he was,
1921
00:44:22.919 --> 00:44:24.159
he deserved the death penalty,
1922
00:44:24.399 --> 00:44:24.760
still do.
1923
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:25.840
I have a sister
1924
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:27.159
that does.
1925
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:27.639
I
1926
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:28.320
have.
1927
00:44:29.540 --> 00:44:33.199
I have two brothers that actually just both passed away in the last 12 days.
1928
00:44:33.969 --> 00:44:34.179
Uh,
1929
00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:34.860
one of them,
1930
00:44:35.020 --> 00:44:35.879
one of them
1931
00:44:36.139 --> 00:44:37.560
that was close to Ronnie,
1932
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:38.820
uh,
1933
00:44:39.379 --> 00:44:41.169
believed Ronnie was pretty dangerous.
1934
00:44:41.729 --> 00:44:43.560
They never expressed to me that they
1935
00:44:44.649 --> 00:44:46.159
We're glad he was executed or not.
1936
00:44:46.209 --> 00:44:46.800
We just
1937
00:44:47.510 --> 00:44:48.550
Didn't talk about it.
1938
00:44:48.669 --> 00:44:50.570
My other brother that just passed away
1939
00:44:50.870 --> 00:44:51.669
a few days ago,
1940
00:44:51.750 --> 00:44:54.729
he was absolute he was 84 and he was absolutely
1941
00:44:55.229 --> 00:44:56.570
against the death penalty.
1942
00:44:57.080 --> 00:44:57.429
So there's,
1943
00:44:57.540 --> 00:44:57.669
yeah,
1944
00:44:57.780 --> 00:44:58.330
there's,
1945
00:44:58.909 --> 00:45:00.550
it's tore into our family a bit,
1946
00:45:00.629 --> 00:45:01.169
you know,
1947
00:45:01.389 --> 00:45:03.120
me being so involved in it,
1948
00:45:03.590 --> 00:45:04.429
it's kinda
1949
00:45:05.110 --> 00:45:06.610
I've even had my kids tell me,
1950
00:45:06.750 --> 00:45:06.899
boy,
1951
00:45:06.949 --> 00:45:09.689
I wish she was as dedicated as being a parent as she was
1952
00:45:10.429 --> 00:45:11.350
against the death penalty,
1953
00:45:11.429 --> 00:45:11.810
which
1954
00:45:12.020 --> 00:45:13.090
breaks my heart,
1955
00:45:13.350 --> 00:45:13.729
you know,
1956
00:45:13.830 --> 00:45:14.350
but
1957
00:45:14.629 --> 00:45:17.389
I never seen me being an advocate against the death penalty,
1958
00:45:17.489 --> 00:45:17.909
but
1959
00:45:18.189 --> 00:45:20.229
it got too much to bear when it first happened,
1960
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:21.929
and I got online and
1961
00:45:22.419 --> 00:45:26.270
reached out and for anti-death penalty activists or something,
1962
00:45:26.939 --> 00:45:29.070
actually came up with a number and called,
1963
00:45:29.110 --> 00:45:31.570
and it was the journey of Hope from Violence to healing.
1964
00:45:32.520 --> 00:45:33.820
He wanted me to go to
1965
00:45:34.399 --> 00:45:34.719
Texas.
1966
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:35.570
I haven't even met the guy.
1967
00:45:35.580 --> 00:45:37.060
He wanted me to go to Texas and
1968
00:45:37.399 --> 00:45:39.820
hang out with an event that they had their World,
1969
00:45:39.959 --> 00:45:42.439
or the World Coalition Against the Death Penalty,
1970
00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:42.840
I think.
1971
00:45:42.909 --> 00:45:43.209
And
1972
00:45:43.479 --> 00:45:44.600
first thing I go to Texas,
1973
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:45.260
I meet
1974
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:47.360
4 men that were exonerated.
1975
00:45:47.409 --> 00:45:47.800
And,
1976
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:48.949
and I,
1977
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:51.360
at that point thought this was some kind of weird setup.
1978
00:45:51.520 --> 00:45:52.939
I was paranoid.
1979
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:53.520
I thought,
1980
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:53.840
no,
1981
00:45:53.959 --> 00:45:54.280
there's,
1982
00:45:54.399 --> 00:45:54.959
there's
1983
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.659
people don't get the death penalty and then are exonerated,
1984
00:45:57.800 --> 00:45:58.000
you know,
1985
00:45:58.080 --> 00:45:58.229
I,
1986
00:45:58.360 --> 00:45:59.379
I thought it was just
1987
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:00.540
a fact that
1988
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.320
There was no exonerees.
1989
00:46:02.389 --> 00:46:03.260
I've since met.
1990
00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:04.550
Oh man,
1991
00:46:04.669 --> 00:46:06.790
probably 50 people that have been exonerated,
1992
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:08.570
and a lot of them are close friends of mine.
1993
00:46:09.189 --> 00:46:09.590
And that's,
1994
00:46:09.669 --> 00:46:10.510
that's the real,
1995
00:46:10.629 --> 00:46:11.449
that's
1996
00:46:11.949 --> 00:46:13.379
one of the real reasons I fight it,
1997
00:46:13.429 --> 00:46:13.629
you know,
1998
00:46:13.709 --> 00:46:14.129
if
1999
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:16.350
Still late for my brother,
2000
00:46:16.419 --> 00:46:17.820
and I'm brokenhearted,
2001
00:46:17.939 --> 00:46:18.629
but it made a,
2002
00:46:18.820 --> 00:46:19.459
it made
2003
00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:20.649
an activist out of me,
2004
00:46:20.659 --> 00:46:22.080
and I share my story
2005
00:46:22.419 --> 00:46:22.899
because of that,
2006
00:46:22.989 --> 00:46:23.560
but
2007
00:46:23.860 --> 00:46:26.139
I think they have executed innocent people.
2008
00:46:26.899 --> 00:46:28.290
And I think that's really scary.
2009
00:46:28.429 --> 00:46:28.620
I mean,
2010
00:46:28.830 --> 00:46:30.590
regardless of how you feel about the death penalty,
2011
00:46:30.709 --> 00:46:31.330
that's
2012
00:46:31.790 --> 00:46:32.090
right,
2013
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:33.949
that's really upsetting when you hear about that,
2014
00:46:34.110 --> 00:46:34.270
you know,
2015
00:46:34.310 --> 00:46:34.800
that,
2016
00:46:35.070 --> 00:46:35.760
that's,
2017
00:46:36.229 --> 00:46:36.969
that's scary.
2018
00:46:37.389 --> 00:46:40.810
One thing I've struggled with covering like Christa Pike and some of the other
2019
00:46:41.500 --> 00:46:42.419
executions,
2020
00:46:42.429 --> 00:46:44.050
I covered the one in South Carolina,
2021
00:46:44.459 --> 00:46:47.659
is I do get like the victims' families like Colleen Schlemmer,
2022
00:46:47.669 --> 00:46:48.939
who's the victim from Crysta Pike,
2023
00:46:48.949 --> 00:46:49.189
and you know,
2024
00:46:49.310 --> 00:46:49.469
she,
2025
00:46:49.629 --> 00:46:50.399
Krista Pike,
2026
00:46:50.669 --> 00:46:51.070
uh,
2027
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:51.699
confessed,
2028
00:46:51.709 --> 00:46:54.469
and there really doesn't seem to be a question of whether she did it,
2029
00:46:54.590 --> 00:46:55.040
you know,
2030
00:46:55.550 --> 00:46:55.790
um,
2031
00:46:55.909 --> 00:46:56.350
but like.
2032
00:46:56.780 --> 00:47:00.840
I think the victims' families sometimes feel like there's so much focus on
2033
00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:02.040
the
2034
00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:05.639
suspect and the execution and all of that
2035
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:07.120
that people kind of lose
2036
00:47:07.449 --> 00:47:09.899
focus of um like the person who died,
2037
00:47:09.949 --> 00:47:10.689
who was killed,
2038
00:47:10.780 --> 00:47:11.360
you know,
2039
00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:12.739
which I can understand.
2040
00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:13.739
I mean that would be,
2041
00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:14.189
I think,
2042
00:47:14.300 --> 00:47:15.399
upsetting if,
2043
00:47:15.729 --> 00:47:16.260
you know,
2044
00:47:16.540 --> 00:47:17.219
if that was my,
2045
00:47:17.260 --> 00:47:19.040
and they're not really the ones who chose
2046
00:47:19.939 --> 00:47:20.979
the death penalty anyway,
2047
00:47:21.060 --> 00:47:21.610
you know.
2048
00:47:22.060 --> 00:47:22.590
Yeah,
2049
00:47:23.100 --> 00:47:23.290
well,
2050
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:23.800
I think,
2051
00:47:23.899 --> 00:47:24.590
I think the
2052
00:47:25.300 --> 00:47:27.179
Prosecution gives you false hopes.
2053
00:47:27.229 --> 00:47:28.649
I think they tell them in the beginning
2054
00:47:29.429 --> 00:47:29.590
that,
2055
00:47:29.629 --> 00:47:30.250
you know,
2056
00:47:30.669 --> 00:47:31.129
we're gonna
2057
00:47:31.429 --> 00:47:34.729
seek the death penalty and then you'll get closure when this really happens.
2058
00:47:35.070 --> 00:47:35.889
I don't
2059
00:47:36.389 --> 00:47:37.969
know if it really happens or not.
2060
00:47:38.030 --> 00:47:40.780
I've known people that family members that have had their
2061
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:43.389
loved one or not their loved one,
2062
00:47:43.459 --> 00:47:44.570
the victims
2063
00:47:45.110 --> 00:47:47.570
and didn't get the closure that they thought they would.
2064
00:47:47.949 --> 00:47:49.750
I think it's a false hope that they're
2065
00:47:50.189 --> 00:47:51.219
telling these people,
2066
00:47:51.350 --> 00:47:51.550
you know,
2067
00:47:51.790 --> 00:47:53.530
because they believe in the death penalty,
2068
00:47:54.229 --> 00:47:54.669
um.
2069
00:47:55.379 --> 00:47:56.100
I myself,
2070
00:47:56.179 --> 00:47:57.709
I don't think I ever really.
2071
00:47:58.429 --> 00:47:59.419
Even at a young age,
2072
00:47:59.629 --> 00:48:00.489
believed in it.
2073
00:48:00.889 --> 00:48:01.429
Um,
2074
00:48:01.590 --> 00:48:03.689
that was a big difference between me and my brother.
2075
00:48:04.030 --> 00:48:04.510
Even though I,
2076
00:48:04.610 --> 00:48:06.689
even though I know what I knew at a younger age,
2077
00:48:07.030 --> 00:48:07.149
you know,
2078
00:48:07.270 --> 00:48:08.250
Ronnie could end up
2079
00:48:08.530 --> 00:48:09.189
killing somebody.
2080
00:48:09.270 --> 00:48:09.870
He was,
2081
00:48:10.350 --> 00:48:10.639
you know,
2082
00:48:10.949 --> 00:48:11.949
I kind of knew that,
2083
00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:13.989
and maybe that's why he believed in it.
2084
00:48:14.070 --> 00:48:15.850
Maybe that's why I didn't,
2085
00:48:16.510 --> 00:48:16.909
you know,
2086
00:48:17.030 --> 00:48:17.379
but.
2087
00:48:18.149 --> 00:48:21.370
It's you even knew at a young age that he was like capable of that.
2088
00:48:21.669 --> 00:48:22.479
I knew that.
2089
00:48:23.479 --> 00:48:24.629
Him being around the people,
2090
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:25.000
he was,
2091
00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:26.959
he was around from 10 years old.
2092
00:48:27.040 --> 00:48:28.199
I knew that was a possibility.
2093
00:48:28.290 --> 00:48:28.739
Yeah.
2094
00:48:29.080 --> 00:48:30.790
He grew around very violent people,
2095
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:31.699
and he went from
2096
00:48:32.120 --> 00:48:36.729
the state mental hospital for a 90-day or 60-day evaluation to
2097
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:37.899
being there a year,
2098
00:48:37.909 --> 00:48:39.270
and he was around adults,
2099
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:39.639
and
2100
00:48:39.959 --> 00:48:40.590
he used to tell me,
2101
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:40.949
man,
2102
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:42.219
what do you call the
2103
00:48:42.600 --> 00:48:43.300
Thorazine,
2104
00:48:43.439 --> 00:48:44.669
Thorazine shuffle.
2105
00:48:44.949 --> 00:48:45.090
He said,
2106
00:48:45.120 --> 00:48:46.459
you got all these people walking around,
2107
00:48:46.520 --> 00:48:47.669
they're all just medicated,
2108
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:48.000
and
2109
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:49.679
they're wanting to medicate me,
2110
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:50.159
you know,
2111
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:51.100
to calm me down.
2112
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:51.520
And,
2113
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:51.870
you know,
2114
00:48:51.919 --> 00:48:52.540
I think.
2115
00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:56.879
Ronnie's big problem back then was maybe he was dyslexic,
2116
00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:57.760
or
2117
00:48:58.500 --> 00:48:59.479
ADHD.
2118
00:48:59.939 --> 00:49:02.760
They didn't really have a diagnosis back then for kids for
2119
00:49:03.060 --> 00:49:04.600
stuff like that too much.
2120
00:49:04.979 --> 00:49:05.580
Um.
2121
00:49:06.399 --> 00:49:07.580
It was definitely not
2122
00:49:08.659 --> 00:49:09.560
A psychopath,
2123
00:49:09.590 --> 00:49:10.070
or,
2124
00:49:10.459 --> 00:49:10.800
you know,
2125
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:11.060
I mean,
2126
00:49:11.139 --> 00:49:11.979
like I said earlier,
2127
00:49:12.060 --> 00:49:12.449
you,
2128
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:14.340
there has to be something wrong if you,
2129
00:49:14.419 --> 00:49:15.760
if you shoot somebody and
2130
00:49:16.449 --> 00:49:17.459
you think that's OK,
2131
00:49:17.530 --> 00:49:19.840
or you think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
2132
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:21.189
It has to be something.
2133
00:49:22.070 --> 00:49:23.459
Mental something going on,
2134
00:49:23.550 --> 00:49:24.530
but as far as
2135
00:49:25.030 --> 00:49:25.370
being
2136
00:49:26.229 --> 00:49:26.889
totally crazy,
2137
00:49:27.030 --> 00:49:30.090
I think just probably neglected in his youth and childhood.
2138
00:49:30.989 --> 00:49:31.820
I think really,
2139
00:49:31.909 --> 00:49:34.750
and which happens with a lot of the same thing with Christa Pike,
2140
00:49:35.149 --> 00:49:35.689
you know,
2141
00:49:36.070 --> 00:49:38.149
being very abused from a very young age,
2142
00:49:38.229 --> 00:49:39.709
2 years old or something,
2143
00:49:40.189 --> 00:49:40.510
you know,
2144
00:49:40.590 --> 00:49:40.750
it,
2145
00:49:40.909 --> 00:49:41.850
we don't never.
2146
00:49:42.709 --> 00:49:44.510
I never forget the victims,
2147
00:49:44.709 --> 00:49:45.030
ever,
2148
00:49:45.110 --> 00:49:45.649
you know,
2149
00:49:45.709 --> 00:49:46.350
and
2150
00:49:47.229 --> 00:49:50.260
it does seem like more attention is focused on the people who did it,
2151
00:49:50.310 --> 00:49:50.850
and that's
2152
00:49:51.310 --> 00:49:52.459
another reality of,
2153
00:49:52.989 --> 00:49:54.350
of having the death penalty,
2154
00:49:54.510 --> 00:49:54.709
you know,
2155
00:49:54.870 --> 00:49:55.929
capital punishment.
2156
00:49:56.149 --> 00:49:56.350
That,
2157
00:49:56.469 --> 00:49:58.169
that just naturally happens.
2158
00:49:58.310 --> 00:49:58.929
And,
2159
00:49:59.389 --> 00:49:59.590
you know,
2160
00:49:59.709 --> 00:49:59.949
if,
2161
00:50:00.270 --> 00:50:01.669
if there wasn't a death penalty,
2162
00:50:03.520 --> 00:50:04.399
That they would go away,
2163
00:50:04.479 --> 00:50:05.320
would just go away,
2164
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:07.060
and people would do their life in
2165
00:50:07.520 --> 00:50:07.840
prison,
2166
00:50:07.919 --> 00:50:08.110
you know,
2167
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:09.600
there's always someone that's gonna
2168
00:50:11.050 --> 00:50:14.149
One of someone that's on death row that wants to be executed,
2169
00:50:14.770 --> 00:50:14.969
you know,
2170
00:50:15.090 --> 00:50:16.010
they'd they see it,
2171
00:50:16.090 --> 00:50:16.290
you know,
2172
00:50:16.370 --> 00:50:16.520
they,
2173
00:50:16.669 --> 00:50:17.669
it happens
2174
00:50:18.370 --> 00:50:19.350
from time to time,
2175
00:50:19.449 --> 00:50:19.810
but,
2176
00:50:20.330 --> 00:50:20.530
you know,
2177
00:50:20.610 --> 00:50:22.169
I think this the way the system is set up,
2178
00:50:22.250 --> 00:50:22.530
it's,
2179
00:50:22.610 --> 00:50:23.050
it.
2180
00:50:23.879 --> 00:50:24.820
It's made,
2181
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:26.520
made to,
2182
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:27.040
you know,
2183
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:28.000
news reports.
2184
00:50:28.080 --> 00:50:29.379
That's where you guys get your
2185
00:50:30.139 --> 00:50:30.280
information.
2186
00:50:30.350 --> 00:50:31.479
That's where you get your stories,
2187
00:50:31.520 --> 00:50:31.709
you know,
2188
00:50:31.879 --> 00:50:32.780
stuff like this.
2189
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:33.469
Um,
2190
00:50:33.479 --> 00:50:34.580
unfortunately,
2191
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:36.479
I think
2192
00:50:37.179 --> 00:50:38.570
With the Krista Pike case,
2193
00:50:38.659 --> 00:50:38.939
you know,
2194
00:50:39.020 --> 00:50:39.840
that's,
2195
00:50:40.219 --> 00:50:41.820
that's all I see on my newsfeed anymore.
2196
00:50:41.889 --> 00:50:43.239
It's all I see on the news,
2197
00:50:43.580 --> 00:50:43.739
you know,
2198
00:50:43.820 --> 00:50:45.129
it's one of the top stories,
2199
00:50:45.139 --> 00:50:45.500
and
2200
00:50:45.739 --> 00:50:47.459
maybe things happen for a reason,
2201
00:50:47.540 --> 00:50:49.639
and maybe it'll shine some light on
2202
00:50:50.060 --> 00:50:52.040
what's happening with the death penalty.
2203
00:50:52.620 --> 00:50:52.780
You know,
2204
00:50:52.899 --> 00:50:56.090
we're the only one of the only civilized countries in the world that still have it,
2205
00:50:56.139 --> 00:50:56.709
you know,
2206
00:50:57.179 --> 00:50:58.520
Iran and Pakistan,
2207
00:50:58.620 --> 00:50:59.370
and Iraq,
2208
00:50:59.379 --> 00:51:00.370
and Saudi Arabia,
2209
00:51:00.379 --> 00:51:01.909
and the United States and China,
2210
00:51:01.979 --> 00:51:02.449
you know.
2211
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:04.000
Um,
2212
00:51:04.520 --> 00:51:05.060
as far as,
2213
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:05.360
you know,
2214
00:51:05.520 --> 00:51:06.510
Canada don't have it.
2215
00:51:06.889 --> 00:51:09.719
Most civilized countries in the world don't even have the death penalty no more,
2216
00:51:09.879 --> 00:51:10.120
so.
2217
00:51:10.919 --> 00:51:11.520
I don't,
2218
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:12.300
I think
2219
00:51:12.600 --> 00:51:14.510
it's a matter of time before we don't have it,
2220
00:51:14.560 --> 00:51:16.879
but it's gonna probably get worse before it gets better.
2221
00:51:18.620 --> 00:51:19.330
Did you ever,
2222
00:51:19.340 --> 00:51:19.879
uh,
2223
00:51:20.179 --> 00:51:22.500
talk with or have any interaction with the
2224
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:24.520
families of the victims from your brother?
2225
00:51:26.929 --> 00:51:28.149
I did not.
2226
00:51:28.250 --> 00:51:31.610
I had a friend from school that was a relative of one of them,
2227
00:51:31.729 --> 00:51:32.489
and she was,
2228
00:51:32.570 --> 00:51:33.770
we were pretty good friends.
2229
00:51:34.209 --> 00:51:35.750
She was getting so much flak.
2230
00:51:35.889 --> 00:51:36.679
It wasn't even,
2231
00:51:36.929 --> 00:51:37.649
it was a,
2232
00:51:38.050 --> 00:51:39.689
he tried to escape from the courthouse.
2233
00:51:39.750 --> 00:51:40.370
It was,
2234
00:51:40.689 --> 00:51:41.530
he shot a bailiff,
2235
00:51:41.600 --> 00:51:42.370
and the bailiff didn't,
2236
00:51:42.489 --> 00:51:43.810
he died 10 years later,
2237
00:51:44.129 --> 00:51:45.300
didn't die from those wounds,
2238
00:51:45.399 --> 00:51:45.750
but
2239
00:51:46.050 --> 00:51:46.409
honestly,
2240
00:51:46.449 --> 00:51:48.370
I think that's why Ronnie got the death penalty,
2241
00:51:48.449 --> 00:51:50.379
because he shot that bailiff cop.
2242
00:51:51.050 --> 00:51:51.719
You know,
2243
00:51:51.969 --> 00:51:52.290
you know,
2244
00:51:52.530 --> 00:51:53.709
that seems to be,
2245
00:51:54.129 --> 00:51:57.050
they care more about cops and other victims and police,
2246
00:51:57.090 --> 00:51:58.159
and I see that all over,
2247
00:51:58.169 --> 00:51:58.610
and
2248
00:51:58.729 --> 00:52:01.050
I've been to executions in Texas vigils,
2249
00:52:01.090 --> 00:52:01.429
and
2250
00:52:01.929 --> 00:52:03.669
when someone had shot a cop and killed them,
2251
00:52:03.770 --> 00:52:05.590
they're being executed when the
2252
00:52:05.969 --> 00:52:07.219
last words are spoken,
2253
00:52:07.330 --> 00:52:09.310
all the motorcycle cops rev up their
2254
00:52:09.709 --> 00:52:10.500
motorcycles,
2255
00:52:10.520 --> 00:52:12.149
so they can't be heard over the crowd,
2256
00:52:12.290 --> 00:52:12.679
just,
2257
00:52:12.969 --> 00:52:13.209
you know,
2258
00:52:13.290 --> 00:52:15.399
and they only do that for when it's policemen,
2259
00:52:16.030 --> 00:52:16.449
um.
2260
00:52:17.290 --> 00:52:17.489
What,
2261
00:52:17.590 --> 00:52:18.560
what was your question?
2262
00:52:18.770 --> 00:52:19.050
Oh no,
2263
00:52:19.129 --> 00:52:23.610
I just wasn't sure like if you ever had any interaction with the families,
2264
00:52:23.729 --> 00:52:24.120
like,
2265
00:52:24.290 --> 00:52:25.320
I like my brother,
2266
00:52:25.449 --> 00:52:27.030
my brother got to meet,
2267
00:52:27.729 --> 00:52:28.419
uh,
2268
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:29.689
Jason Otterstrom,
2269
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:31.590
which was the bartender that my brother
2270
00:52:31.929 --> 00:52:32.469
shot.
2271
00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:33.419
Uh,
2272
00:52:33.889 --> 00:52:35.969
he was just a little kid when it happened,
2273
00:52:36.010 --> 00:52:37.429
and then 25 years later,
2274
00:52:37.449 --> 00:52:37.919
he was,
2275
00:52:38.330 --> 00:52:40.729
but he got to have a visit with him.
2276
00:52:41.689 --> 00:52:42.550
Uh,
2277
00:52:42.919 --> 00:52:43.889
did he apologize,
2278
00:52:43.929 --> 00:52:44.449
or,
2279
00:52:44.810 --> 00:52:45.010
uh,
2280
00:52:45.090 --> 00:52:46.110
he did apologize,
2281
00:52:46.209 --> 00:52:46.610
and,
2282
00:52:46.879 --> 00:52:47.169
and,
2283
00:52:47.209 --> 00:52:47.439
uh,
2284
00:52:47.449 --> 00:52:49.389
Jason Otterstrom forgive him,
2285
00:52:49.929 --> 00:52:51.429
but still believed that he
2286
00:52:51.770 --> 00:52:53.000
should be executed for it,
2287
00:52:53.010 --> 00:52:53.389
and,
2288
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:55.110
and my brother was OK
2289
00:52:55.449 --> 00:52:55.969
with that,
2290
00:52:56.129 --> 00:52:56.590
you know.
2291
00:52:57.879 --> 00:52:57.959
Well,
2292
00:52:58.040 --> 00:52:58.800
I appreciate your time,
2293
00:52:58.919 --> 00:52:59.239
Randy.
2294
00:52:59.280 --> 00:52:59.689
It's,
2295
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.020
it's a lot to talk about and it's a
2296
00:53:02.520 --> 00:53:03.020
complicated
2297
00:53:03.919 --> 00:53:04.080
issue,
2298
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:04.780
you know that.
2299
00:53:05.520 --> 00:53:06.320
A lot of ethical,
2300
00:53:06.399 --> 00:53:09.560
kind of an ethical moral dilemma for a lot of people when they think about these,
2301
00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:12.429
and it sounds like even for your brother and even for,
2302
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:12.800
you know,
2303
00:53:12.870 --> 00:53:13.860
I know you're pretty,
2304
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:14.699
uh,
2305
00:53:15.080 --> 00:53:16.110
you know how you feel about it,
2306
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:18.020
but I think for a lot of people they're really
2307
00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:18.530
torn,
2308
00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:19.139
you know.
2309
00:53:20.010 --> 00:53:20.250
Yeah,
2310
00:53:20.370 --> 00:53:20.489
and,
2311
00:53:20.689 --> 00:53:21.110
and,
2312
00:53:21.250 --> 00:53:21.800
and I get it,
2313
00:53:21.810 --> 00:53:22.810
and I understand it,
2314
00:53:22.929 --> 00:53:23.520
you know,
2315
00:53:23.929 --> 00:53:24.729
I just
2316
00:53:25.350 --> 00:53:26.790
I don't believe in that revenge,
2317
00:53:26.830 --> 00:53:27.330
and,
2318
00:53:27.429 --> 00:53:27.669
you know,
2319
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:29.250
and I'm not a religious person,
2320
00:53:29.389 --> 00:53:30.389
so I can't say.
2321
00:53:31.600 --> 00:53:33.379
If they're gonna be redeemed or,
2322
00:53:33.600 --> 00:53:35.000
or anything like that,
2323
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:35.719
but
2324
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:36.800
I think
2325
00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:39.300
it's just a moral issue for me.
2326
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:41.620
The the main reason is
2327
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:45.100
I see it so clear that we shouldn't be killing other people.
2328
00:53:45.729 --> 00:53:46.360
You know,
2329
00:53:46.489 --> 00:53:47.830
I get why people want,
2330
00:53:48.370 --> 00:53:48.800
want that.
2331
00:53:48.850 --> 00:53:49.709
I understand
2332
00:53:49.820 --> 00:53:51.250
their emotions and their feelings,
2333
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:51.729
but,
2334
00:53:52.250 --> 00:53:52.489
you know,
2335
00:53:52.600 --> 00:53:53.919
when it really comes down to it,
2336
00:53:53.969 --> 00:53:54.729
it's just,
2337
00:53:55.129 --> 00:53:56.409
it's not the right thing to do,
2338
00:53:56.489 --> 00:53:57.610
and I know that in my heart,
2339
00:53:57.689 --> 00:53:58.169
and I'm gonna,
2340
00:53:58.290 --> 00:53:59.590
I'll fight this until
2341
00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:01.209
I have no fight left,
2342
00:54:01.250 --> 00:54:01.669
and
2343
00:54:01.850 --> 00:54:03.530
it's not that I like doing this,
2344
00:54:03.810 --> 00:54:04.350
you know,
2345
00:54:04.689 --> 00:54:05.129
but if I,
2346
00:54:05.209 --> 00:54:06.090
if I don't do this,
2347
00:54:06.169 --> 00:54:06.889
I feel worse,
2348
00:54:07.010 --> 00:54:07.250
you know,
2349
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:08.030
if I don't have
2350
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:09.689
conversations about it,
2351
00:54:09.729 --> 00:54:11.330
and if I don't go to events,
2352
00:54:11.570 --> 00:54:12.040
you know,
2353
00:54:12.290 --> 00:54:14.830
nowadays I can pick and choose.
2354
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:16.169
In the 1st 8 years,
2355
00:54:16.209 --> 00:54:18.290
I probably needed to go to all the places I did.
2356
00:54:18.370 --> 00:54:19.929
I went all over the United States,
2357
00:54:19.969 --> 00:54:20.260
and,
2358
00:54:20.729 --> 00:54:20.889
you know,
2359
00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:21.719
I was on the board,
2360
00:54:21.810 --> 00:54:22.919
so I was required to go,
2361
00:54:22.929 --> 00:54:23.330
and
2362
00:54:23.570 --> 00:54:25.350
I think that got too much for me.
2363
00:54:26.300 --> 00:54:26.750
You know,
2364
00:54:26.899 --> 00:54:27.620
for 8 years,
2365
00:54:27.699 --> 00:54:28.879
and that's all I did.
2366
00:54:30.419 --> 00:54:30.780
But yeah,
2367
00:54:31.070 --> 00:54:31.429
like
2368
00:54:32.449 --> 00:54:33.129
It's not,
2369
00:54:33.219 --> 00:54:33.399
to me,
2370
00:54:33.429 --> 00:54:34.689
it's just not morally right,
2371
00:54:34.729 --> 00:54:36.040
and I'll keep fighting against it,
2372
00:54:36.090 --> 00:54:36.669
and I don't,
2373
00:54:36.979 --> 00:54:39.370
I don't fight with people that are on the fence no more,
2374
00:54:39.409 --> 00:54:39.820
and
2375
00:54:40.209 --> 00:54:40.370
I mean,
2376
00:54:40.409 --> 00:54:42.350
I've had my life threatened before.
2377
00:54:42.530 --> 00:54:42.870
People
2378
00:54:43.370 --> 00:54:44.209
getting in arguments,
2379
00:54:44.290 --> 00:54:44.399
yeah,
2380
00:54:44.610 --> 00:54:45.250
meet me down here.
2381
00:54:45.330 --> 00:54:46.219
I'll kill you.
2382
00:54:47.530 --> 00:54:47.689
you know,
2383
00:54:47.770 --> 00:54:48.770
I've gone through all those,
2384
00:54:48.850 --> 00:54:49.689
all that stuff,
2385
00:54:49.729 --> 00:54:50.149
and
2386
00:54:50.570 --> 00:54:51.050
I just,
2387
00:54:51.090 --> 00:54:51.560
uh,
2388
00:54:51.689 --> 00:54:52.719
I've learned a lot about it,
2389
00:54:52.729 --> 00:54:53.469
and I just,
2390
00:54:53.850 --> 00:54:57.040
there's ways to fight and there's ways that it's not even worth your time,
2391
00:54:57.050 --> 00:54:58.300
and that's the way I am.
2392
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:00.729
Well thank you Randy.
2393
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:01.560
I appreciate it.
2394
00:55:01.770 --> 00:55:03.219
Thank you for giving me the time.
2395
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:04.889
Have a good rest of your day.
2396
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:05.739
Thank you.
2397
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:06.719
Bye bye.
2398
00:55:07.120 --> 00:55:07.270
Really,
2399
00:55:07.330 --> 00:55:09.530
really appreciate Randy for taking the time to talk with
2400
00:55:09.530 --> 00:55:12.120
me and being so open with me and um.
2401
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:14.830
I know these are difficult conversations to have.
2402
00:55:14.899 --> 00:55:15.449
I mean,
2403
00:55:15.879 --> 00:55:17.469
about what he went through with his brother,
2404
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:18.580
about his own
2405
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:20.719
struggles with that ever since,
2406
00:55:21.120 --> 00:55:21.500
uh,
2407
00:55:21.530 --> 00:55:22.260
and you know,
2408
00:55:22.520 --> 00:55:24.800
it's just these are real life conversations and
2409
00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:26.280
I know they're not always easy to have,
2410
00:55:26.399 --> 00:55:26.739
but
2411
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:29.399
these are the kinds of things that I want to bring to you guys to
2412
00:55:29.399 --> 00:55:32.780
give you the perspective of what's kind of going on here in the bigger picture.
2413
00:55:32.879 --> 00:55:33.250
So
2414
00:55:33.560 --> 00:55:35.679
I'll keep an eye on what's going on with Christa Pike.
2415
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:37.280
Hopefully we'll get some more information,
2416
00:55:37.399 --> 00:55:39.100
some more solid information soon,
2417
00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:41.419
and I think we're gonna find out in the next.
2418
00:55:41.739 --> 00:55:42.439
Several days
2419
00:55:43.020 --> 00:55:45.219
whether she's gonna come out of this coma or not.
2420
00:55:45.379 --> 00:55:45.610
Um,
2421
00:55:45.620 --> 00:55:46.870
and is it an induced coma?
2422
00:55:46.899 --> 00:55:48.439
Did they put her in a coma while
2423
00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:50.979
they try to clear the pentobarbital from her system?
2424
00:55:51.020 --> 00:55:52.739
I'm told that could also be a possibility.
2425
00:55:52.820 --> 00:55:53.159
So
2426
00:55:53.300 --> 00:55:56.659
we should find out over the next couple of days and I'll keep you guys posted.
2427
00:55:57.010 --> 00:55:58.370
Really appreciate everybody,
2428
00:55:58.379 --> 00:55:58.840
um,
2429
00:55:58.870 --> 00:56:00.159
for following along
2430
00:56:00.340 --> 00:56:01.290
with me and,
2431
00:56:01.300 --> 00:56:01.610
uh,
2432
00:56:01.620 --> 00:56:02.469
watching my videos.
2433
00:56:02.620 --> 00:56:04.139
Got a couple of other things I'm working on
2434
00:56:04.139 --> 00:56:06.050
this week that I'll keep you guys posted on.
2435
00:56:06.340 --> 00:56:07.080
But as always,
2436
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:07.310
um,
2437
00:56:07.379 --> 00:56:09.459
thank you to everybody who has subscribed to my channel.
2438
00:56:09.580 --> 00:56:10.580
I'll talk to you guys later.