Brewsers #392-Dr. Sonat with Koval Distilling

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Welcome to Bruisers, a podcast about beer, coffee, booze, and Bruisers.
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I'm your host, Rody John, and today we talk to Dr.
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Sonnet with Koval Distilling. We talk about how Koval got started,
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the industry in general, and so much more. This is
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such a fun conversation. Koval's been doing absolutely amazing things
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up in Chicago for many, many years now, but you
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don't want to hear from me. You want to hear
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from her. So without further ado, here is Dr. Sonnet
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with Koval Distilling. I would like to welcome to the
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show Dr. Sonnet Berknecker-Hart with Koval Distillery. How are you
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doing today?
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Very well. So nice to be with you. Thank you.
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Thank you for being here. I'm very excited about this. Awesome.
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Me too.
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Paint us a word picture. Where are you at and
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what's going on around you?
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I am actually in my office, although from the image
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on the screen, that is sort of the factory itself
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that's in front of our still. We actually now have
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three 5,000 liter stills in the factory, as well as
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our original 350 liters still that we started with. So
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we've come a long way. So, but yeah.
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Well, let's go all the way back in time. What
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is your earliest memory of alcohol?
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About alcohol or cobalt?
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Alcohol.
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Alcohol. Goodness. I don't mean to To rat out my parents,
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but honestly, my first memory of alcohol, I was probably
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maybe six years old or seven years old. And we
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were living in Wrigleyville, which is right across from Wrigley Field.
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We were living in a brownstone on Wilton. And right
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next to the apartment house, there was a little sort
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of side yard. And we would go out there in
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the wintertime and we would make snowmen and play in
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the snow. And I remember playing in the snow for
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a very long time. And I remember I was like
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so cold. It was like your cheeks were prickly. And
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we came back into the apartment and it was me
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and my sister. I don't even think my brother was
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born yet. And my mom had these little Waterford crystal
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tiny glasses. They were sort of like very elegant shot glasses.
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And she was drinking some whiskey out of it. And
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she let me have a sip. And this was like
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right after coming out from the cold. And I actually
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remember the entire event night. I probably remember it so
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clearly because of the sip of whiskey, but it certainly
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warmed me up.
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Yes.
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And my mom said, this is, it's very warming. It's
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very warming, all right. So I would say that is
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my first memory of alcohol. And actually, you know, it's
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super inappropriate, but yeah, it was a fond memory.
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I mean, to each their own parenthood wise, like they
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were feeding it to you every day. So, you know,
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one little sip.
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Oh no.
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Yeah.
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It was just a little tiny sip and it was
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probably like an off the cuff. Everyone sort of just
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come in from being outside in the freezing cold, building snowmen.
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And it was just, but it went so well with
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the memory and I guess the moment.
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So you're the middle child.
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I'm actually the oldest. Yeah.
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Oh, okay.
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A little younger. And then I have a brother, but he,
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during that memory was not.
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Yes. I imagine he's got his own memory of alcohol.
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And your parents. Probably. I mean, my parents were very,
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you know, this was like the eighties, you know, so
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it was a very kind of a little more relaxed time.
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It seems at least in my memories of it. Um,
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you know, I remember going out at night on a
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school night on a Wednesday to a club in Chicago
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called Medusa's. And, you know, I was, I was like 15.
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It's a very different world. And, you know, by the way,
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my sister was with me, you know, but they had
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these like underage clubs and things that were young, you know,
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preteens and teenagers could gather. And unfortunately, I don't even
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think they have that kind of thing anymore at all.
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And they were there was no alcohol. It was a
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You know, they were just juice bars is what they
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would call them. But, you know, so at that time period,
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it just seemed very, I don't know, open and relaxed
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and socially an environment that, you know, you just can't
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even imagine today. I mean, I have two teenagers and
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so much of their social life is not running to
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a club on a Wednesday night. It's literally like on
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their phones or... you know, through, you know, activities also,
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but there isn't like a, let's go out to a
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club or to a place to socialize.
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Right.
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That's just, I don't know. And, you know, and certainly,
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you know, being in the alcohol industry today, that's something
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that we've seen sort of, you know, Slow. And I
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feel that it's actually something that people need more than ever.
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Like we need this kind of community. And I feel that,
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you know, whether one likes to drink cocktails or likes
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to drink any cocktails or, you know, whatever it is,
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coming together, you know, to meet people and have community
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and in an unscripted environment where, you know, it's just,
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I think that that's a wonderful thing.
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Yeah, my friends and I were talking about that the
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other day, too, because there used to be a club
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here in the DFW area or in Arlington, for sure,
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that was an underage place. And we're like, those wouldn't exist.
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And like, you can't do that. Like, you can't, but
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nobody does it. Like, because I guess, again, obviously, like
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with a regular club, you can charge through the roof
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for a drink and, you know, people are going to
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pay for it, whether it be alcohol or not. But,
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you know, why wouldn't you then maybe do the same,
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but mocktails or you know, like you said, in a
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drinks or something like that. But at the same time,
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like you said, teenagers nowadays, when they get together, they're
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all on their phone and they're sharing stuff, but they're
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texting it to each other or just like, Hey, look
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at this. So it's not, I mean, unfortunately the whole
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pandemic situation for a lot of them really didn't help
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because they couldn't be around their friends. And whenever they
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were around their friends again, it was like just a
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weird situation.
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Right. Exactly. It was like fear of coming together with
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other people. Right. Oh, And as opposed to, you know,
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what I had was, I can't wait to get in
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a group of people, you know, and like not have
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my parents know where I am and like, you know,
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be at someone's house or be at some like club.
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And I don't know, is it, it was, it was
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a really fun time. I feel very lucky to have
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been a teenager, you know, at that time period. Yeah.
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And I've also heard this kind of theory that there
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is no real third space for people where like, For
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its work, its home, and then a lot of times
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it is either church or whether you go to a
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bar or wherever you go for that extra space that
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you do hang out on a regular basis. A lot
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of these, the next generation doesn't really have that.
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Yeah, it's strange. Although I think that it's going to
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have to come back because.
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Ultimately- Oh, it is, yeah. I mean, the pendulum goes
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one way and has to come back.
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Yeah. Exactly. So I'm hoping that we're, you know, at
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one end of it and it's going to come back
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and people are going to come together and there's going
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to be less division and people are going to be
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more willing to talk to each other, you know, all
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of that. And you know, that's my hope.
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I mean, with your tasting room, what, how do you
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guys try to do that when it comes to, I mean,
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obviously you guys are in a big city. Chicago has
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always been one of the top five cities in America
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and it's such a melting pot for so many things,
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whether it be, the film world or obviously the music
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scene has been phenomenal there. And then comedy has been,
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you know, with Chicago forever and then the sports teams.
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So you want all these people to come and actually
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create kind of a third space. So how's, how's that
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process been for you guys?
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Well, I feel very lucky and it's also, you know,
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in part because, by design that we are that for
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members of the community. And I think the way that
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you do that is that you allow your community to
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sort of help dictate how it's going to look. And
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in that sense, we do that in a few ways.
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One is that we don't like to think of ourselves
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as you know, apart from the community at all. We
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are active members of the community. We try and be
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involved as much as possible. That means like charitably, like
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what's going on in our community. How can we get involved?
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What are the initiatives? And whether that's just locally in Ravenswood,
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where the distillery is located, or which is also right
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by Chicago's Malt Row. So there are a lot of breweries,
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you know, where we are. So we can work collaboratively
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with the breweries as well and create community that way to,
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you know, as I said, sort of charitable things that
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are happening. also charitable things that are happening more broadly
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that appeal to some of the things that we hold
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dear at the distillery. So for example, we care a
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lot about environmental issues. I mean, Coval's an organic distillery.
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We work with sustainable and regenerative agriculture. And so these
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are things that are important to us. We've partnered with
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the Shed Aquarium on their program called Let's Shed Plastic.
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And so that's like one of the things that where
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we bring in other communities together. But, you know, we
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also in our tasting room, which also we have a patio,
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we try and make it as friendly as possible. So,
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for example, you know, we've got lots of games out.
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So for people who want to just come and play
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games with each other, whether they're outdoor games or indoor
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games or tabletop games, or, you know, we also make
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it an environment that's comfortable for parents to bring kids.
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And I feel like there's a huge problem, another sort
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of cultural issue, if we want to get into it,
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is that I feel that in our society, you know,
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young kids often kind of, get left, you know, at
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home or you have to get a babysitter to go
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out because it's hard to have a grownup conversation and
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have kids in tow because you're not usually going to
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go somewhere where there are things for kids to do. Right.
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Like we always try and have chalk and games. And
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like little connect for, for kids. And we have like
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a little tricycle and we can like close the door
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of the patio. It's like a, all along the sidewalk.
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So kids are trapped and they can't get anywhere and
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they can sort of run around and their parents can
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actually sit there and watch them and have a grownup
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conversation and feel like a moment of comfort, but without
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even having to leave their kids at home, which I
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think is really a nice opportunity for, for parents. or
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caregivers in general. But also, you know, we work with
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other members of the community that want to bring community
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together around their interests. So we have people that give
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bonsai classes, or want to do Magic the Gathering, or
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that want to do, you know, all sorts of things
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that you know, they're passionate about. And if they're passionate
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about them and they're in our community and people want
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to do these things, then we want to be a
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place where they can do them. So we offer all
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sorts of classes and all sorts of fun things, but
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really this is coming from other community members that want
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to share what they love with others. And we provide
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sort of a venue for that. So it's a win-win
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for everybody. And these are the kinds of things that
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we like to do to bring community together.
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I love that you guys are so open when it
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comes to, yes, bring your kids. Because like you said,
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a lot of people, let's say you're having a birthday
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party or whatever it is, you know, as for an adult.
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But then most of your friends that are once they
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get over a certain age, they have kids. And so
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they want to come also. But then also, oh, I
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don't know. I have a kid. It's a it's a distillery.
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Is that going to be right? No, it's totally like
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it's not like they're serving the kids drinks or anything
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like that.
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Yeah.
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Most of my friends have kids and we're always at breweries.
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So like some of them have grown up in them.
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And so but that's also you're getting them out in
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the in public and they need to know how to
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act in public, whether it be, you know, what to
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do and not to do. Obviously, pay attention, keep your
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head on a swivel, that kind of thing.
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And sure.
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Yeah, but then also having the things for them to
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actually entertain themselves that's not a tablet is totally the
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best thing.
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Absolutely, and we've got tons of games and fun stuff,
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and I feel like that is really nice. And you
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talk about building community. It's like making things easy for people.
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It can sometimes be really hard, and maybe people want
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to go out and have a drink, but they want
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to bring... their own food or they, you know, how
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many opportunities do they have to do that? You know,
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we allow people to bring in their own food. We
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allow people to like go to the local restaurants nearby
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and pick it up and come and enjoy it on
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the patio. Enjoy, have fun. And that's great for the
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other local businesses. You know, we don't have a big
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commercial kitchen, so it's really like a win-win and it
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makes it comfortable for other people. I remember how irritating
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it was when we were getting married and we would
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go to different venues and they would just hand you
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a list of just the, you know what I mean?
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The list of their, you know, approved vendors, you know?
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And it's like, oh, come on. Like, can't I have
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my favorite restaurant cater it in? Like, why not? You know?
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And so we ended up doing a lot of, you know,
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corporate events or charitable events or things where, You know,
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people want to bring their own caterers or work with
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their own restaurants or things like that. And it's why
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not let them, you know, I feel like that's like
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a nice, it's also about building community. So that's just
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another example.
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How did you meet your husband?
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Oh, it's fun. It's a fun story. He actually helped me.
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And I guess biblically, when you look at the root
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of what it means to have a husband or a wife,
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you know, from that standpoint, it's a help mate. And
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so he certainly was that. I was a professor at
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the time and I was looking for somebody to help
283
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me grade some papers. I was teaching an overload of
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classes and I was teaching a German language lit class
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at Goucher College. And this was like 2005 when Google Translate,
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I think, was in its like very early iterations. And
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so a lot of my students were able to read
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German and speak German, but the writing was really a
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skill that needed a little more development. And so when
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they had this paper they had to write about a
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Kafka short story, the papers that I received were very
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Kafkaesque and that it took me a lot of time
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to interpret what some of the things were that they
294
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were trying to say. So I needed some assistance. And
295
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so I tried to find a TA all over the place.
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And nobody was interested because it was sort of right
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before an exam period. So I started thinking out of
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the box. So I was like, why don't I call
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the German embassy and see if they have some interns.
300
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So I did. And they're like, and they hung up
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on me and I was like, ah, okay. So then
302
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I called the Austrian embassy and they're like, which is
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sort of like more of like a Viennese, like sort
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of Austrian kind of more chill way of going about it.
305
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So they connected me to Robert. who at the time
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was the deputy press secretary of the Austrian embassy. And
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he was the guy with the interns. And so I,
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I spoke to him and I said, I was looking
309
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for an intern to grade some German papers or help
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me with them. And, you know, he said, you know, I'll,
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I'll reach out to my interns. I'll call you back,
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call me back, said, good news, bad news, bad news
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is none of my interns want to do this. They
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just want to hang out in New York over the weekend.
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Good news is I'm not busy this weekend. I'll do
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it for you. And so, He did. And it was
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the most amazing job. Literally, he created like a color
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coded key with all the different errors. I mean, it
319
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was so pedantic and so wonderful. And I was so relieved.
320
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And so because it took me literally like two hours
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of paper or more. And then I remember him telling
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me when I picked them up, I was like, He's like,
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you know, when I read the first one, he's like,
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I thought, well, this is a bad one, but I'm
325
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sure there'll be better. He's like, no, they're all really bad.
326
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So he helped me and then he invited me out
327
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and we went out and then I said, well, nothing's
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going to happen because I'm moving to take a position
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as a professor in Germany. So I'm not going to
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have a long distance relationship. And he said, that's okay.
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I'll just come to Germany. And I was like, yeah, okay.
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I was like, yeah, right. I mean, you know, it just,
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a lot of times, you know, at least in my
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own personal experience, I had done a lot of the
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following the guy situation, you know, and it never really,
336
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you know, resulted in where I wanted it to go ultimately.
337
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And so I was always, I was a little jaded.
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I was like, yeah, right. Okay, sure. You'll come to Berlin.
339
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But then he did. And then we got married and
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we have, you know, two wonderful children and a business together.
341
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So there you go. Sometimes you've got to like really
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go for it.
343
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Yeah. Well, all those times that it didn't work out
344
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was just saving up karma for later when it actually
345
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went the other way.
346
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Exactly. It was getting me to where I needed to be.
347
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Exactly. You have to go through these lessons in life
348
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and then the good happens in the end.
349
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Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's all learning. It's all learning
350
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and wonderful experience.
351
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:40.579
So what is your doctorate in?
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It is in German cultural history.
353
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What did you hope to do with that when you
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were getting the doctorate in that?
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Be a professor, which I was. So I did that
356
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for a decade. And then I wanted to be in Chicago.
357
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I wanted to move back. I wanted to be close
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to my parents as they were aging. I love Chicago.
359
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I just couldn't imagine having children anywhere else. I just
360
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had such a happy childhood in the city that I
361
00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:13.569
felt like, you know, I wanted to at least have
362
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some echo of that for my children. Um, and, and
363
00:19:17.789 --> 00:19:20.250
so luckily Robert was also gay. It was like, yeah,
364
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let's go to Chicago. Let's let's start a business. Let's
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do it. So, you know, it's, it's been fabulous. Yeah.
366
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.400
So, I mean, tell us how did, uh, Koval begin?
367
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.079
Well, you know, we were pregnant with our first child.
368
00:19:35.829 --> 00:19:39.099
And that's a very big, you know, crossroads for people,
369
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you know, where you kind of really start taking stock
370
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of how you want your life to be. yeah and
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so we were talking about it and we were living
372
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in the dc area at the time and you know
373
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i was like you know if we were thinking about
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buying a home and settling down but then as we
375
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were going through those motions and every home that we
376
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were looking at this was also in like 2007 right
377
00:20:02.930 --> 00:20:07.549
before the bubble burst and So every home in our
378
00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:12.970
price category was like, as is, or like, bring vision,
379
00:20:13.099 --> 00:20:14.759
you know, and then bring vision.
380
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:15.339
I love that.
381
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.559
Oh, yeah, exactly. And then you'd like run out with
382
00:20:18.579 --> 00:20:21.240
your like your shirt over your mouth, because there was
383
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:24.279
like a black mold in the basement, you know. So
384
00:20:24.380 --> 00:20:25.799
it was like, it got to the point where like,
385
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.910
you know what, maybe this just isn't right. Maybe we
386
00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:31.549
don't want to settle down here. Maybe like all this,
387
00:20:31.609 --> 00:20:33.569
like running around trying to find a home that's just
388
00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:37.200
doesn't feel right for us is just the wrong path altogether.
389
00:20:37.220 --> 00:20:40.480
And then we started thinking, maybe this is a moment
390
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.390
to just do something completely different. And so we, uh,
391
00:20:46.250 --> 00:20:48.509
thought that we would just start a business together. And
392
00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:50.779
then when trying to figure out what that business would be,
393
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.470
Robert comes from three generations of distillers in Austria. his
394
00:20:55.529 --> 00:21:01.769
grandfather still has a functioning cidery and distillery in, you know,
395
00:21:01.789 --> 00:21:04.069
the part of Austria where they filmed Sound of Music.
396
00:21:04.609 --> 00:21:05.950
Okay.
397
00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:10.319
The hills are alive over there, let me tell you. And,
398
00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:13.599
and so, you know, he grew up distilling his chores,
399
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.420
never really, you know, he went and got a PhD
400
00:21:16.460 --> 00:21:18.420
and worked for the Austrian embassy, did not think that
401
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.900
he would be a distiller, you know, later in life,
402
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.920
but It actually started to make a lot of sense.
403
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.759
And when we came to thinking that we would do this,
404
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.900
there were, I think there were less than 50 DSPs
405
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.680
in the entire United States. I mean, if you think
406
00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:36.579
about it, you know, I think GQ magazine did a
407
00:21:36.619 --> 00:21:41.299
whole article about like whiskey family tree in around 2010,
408
00:21:41.299 --> 00:21:43.980
which was a few years after we started even. And
409
00:21:44.019 --> 00:21:47.859
back then most whiskey brands that people knew, and you know,
410
00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:51.009
quite frankly, it's still true today are made by one
411
00:21:51.049 --> 00:21:52.670
of like maybe nine companies.
412
00:21:53.029 --> 00:21:53.190
Yep.
413
00:21:54.069 --> 00:21:56.029
So it was like, there really wasn't much of a
414
00:21:56.190 --> 00:22:00.029
craft world at the time. I mean, you had your
415
00:22:00.130 --> 00:22:03.769
over at hanger one, um, and you had like, you,
416
00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:07.150
you had a few outliers that were doing some really
417
00:22:07.170 --> 00:22:11.250
interesting things, old portrayal at the time, uh, coming out of, um,
418
00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:15.299
the brewery in San Francisco. So there were a few,
419
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:22.809
you know, Hudson, Whiskey, they had started, but there really
420
00:22:22.849 --> 00:22:25.710
weren't that many at all. And so we decided that
421
00:22:25.769 --> 00:22:28.670
we would start the first distillery in Chicago since the
422
00:22:28.690 --> 00:22:28.920
mid 1800s.
423
00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:29.210
Yeah.
424
00:22:29.309 --> 00:22:35.410
And in doing that. Uh, we reached out to, I sent,
425
00:22:35.430 --> 00:22:37.789
you know, coming from Chicago. I knew, I know how
426
00:22:37.829 --> 00:22:40.589
Chicago works a little bit. I had, you know, if
427
00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:42.690
the alderman doesn't want you to do what you're going
428
00:22:42.710 --> 00:22:44.990
to do, then that's not the right part of the
429
00:22:45.099 --> 00:22:47.819
city for you. So I reached out and sent letters
430
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:51.039
to about 10 aldermen and two got back to me,
431
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.220
but one got back to me very quickly and on
432
00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:58.319
my cell phone. And it was alderman Jean Schulter. And
433
00:22:58.339 --> 00:23:00.400
he said, you know, sign it. I like what you're doing.
434
00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:02.809
I want you in my ward. I got a guy.
435
00:23:02.890 --> 00:23:04.990
He's got a place. It's perfect for you. When are
436
00:23:05.009 --> 00:23:07.029
you coming to look at it? And I was like, whoa,
437
00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:09.210
this is really the city that works.
438
00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:10.839
No question.
439
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.200
And so we came to Chicago for the weekend. We
440
00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:20.900
met our future landlord. The place was great. It was
441
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:23.569
in exactly the place where we wanted to be and
442
00:23:23.630 --> 00:23:26.450
should be. And that's sort of how it started. It
443
00:23:26.490 --> 00:23:30.089
was really like, The city just, it made sense. And
444
00:23:30.109 --> 00:23:33.609
then the city really did work for us. And, you know,
445
00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:36.869
I give Chicago a lot of credit because at the time,
446
00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:40.069
you know, when we were starting, we also became consultants
447
00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:44.130
for the industry as well. And that's also one of
448
00:23:44.170 --> 00:23:47.069
the ways that we were, you know, grew Koval and
449
00:23:47.269 --> 00:23:51.269
remained independent all these years. But the city of Chicago,
450
00:23:51.369 --> 00:23:53.430
unlike a lot of cities, because we worked with a
451
00:23:53.470 --> 00:23:56.309
lot of different cities, a lot of different towns, Um,
452
00:23:56.670 --> 00:24:01.210
some places made it so difficult, you know, and Chicago
453
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.920
was really open and willing to work with us and,
454
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.559
you know, so helpful actually at the end of the day.
455
00:24:09.740 --> 00:24:14.190
And it's, that's not true everywhere. And so we had
456
00:24:14.250 --> 00:24:17.809
a amazing experience with everybody that we worked with in
457
00:24:17.829 --> 00:24:20.750
the city and it was the right place to be.
458
00:24:20.990 --> 00:24:25.670
And so ultimately, you know, as we started you know,
459
00:24:25.750 --> 00:24:29.450
distilling and getting, going that way. We also started consulting
460
00:24:30.069 --> 00:24:33.710
and helping other people get equipment because at that time
461
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.730
there really were not very many options for distillers, craft
462
00:24:37.779 --> 00:24:41.880
distillers to find equipment that would be appropriate for a
463
00:24:42.019 --> 00:24:46.680
small scale operation. Um, you had a few companies, a
464
00:24:46.740 --> 00:24:50.599
lot of them were originally like brewing equipment companies, but
465
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.160
a lot of the distillery equipment companies are German. So
466
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:57.880
we started working with one of these companies, Cota Distilling Technologies,
467
00:24:59.329 --> 00:25:03.349
bootstrapping it. We helped them. We translated their website into
468
00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.809
English from the German. We became their manufacturer's representatives, you know,
469
00:25:07.890 --> 00:25:10.450
all the things. Then we started working with tank companies
470
00:25:10.509 --> 00:25:12.829
and then we started working with bottling line companies. And
471
00:25:12.849 --> 00:25:16.450
so really we started working with all the hardware companies
472
00:25:17.029 --> 00:25:21.700
as well as, quite frankly, software in that Robert and
473
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.640
some of our colleagues in Germany We, you know, Robert
474
00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:32.400
was very involved in creating automation systems for craft sized
475
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.859
distilleries so that they wouldn't have to fly blind ever.
476
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:39.859
There'd be sensors on everything that they would know what
477
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:42.400
was happening so that they would have a lot of
478
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:48.049
the same technological advancements and opportunities open to them that
479
00:25:48.109 --> 00:25:50.819
some of the big guys have. And so that's something
480
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.380
that we also, you know, we're very much involved in
481
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:57.420
bringing to, uh, the U S and to Chicago. Certainly,
482
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.460
you know, we started workshops, we educated over 3,500 people
483
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.430
and how to start distilleries. Robert, uh, has set up
484
00:26:07.430 --> 00:26:13.259
250 distilleries all over the world for others. You know,
485
00:26:13.299 --> 00:26:15.660
we've set up a lot of the local Midwestern ones.
486
00:26:15.700 --> 00:26:18.279
We set up a few. We set up Journeymen, you know,
487
00:26:18.339 --> 00:26:21.369
Middle West Spirits in Ohio. We set up, you know,
488
00:26:22.109 --> 00:26:26.549
we were involved with, you know, helping Woodinville. We did
489
00:26:26.630 --> 00:26:30.779
some white label distilling for Whistlepig before they had a still.
490
00:26:30.819 --> 00:26:33.630
We helped High West with some of their equipment. So
491
00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:37.519
we've been very involved in a lot, but it's not just,
492
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.680
you know, here, you know, Robert also set up a
493
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:42.920
number of distilleries all over the world. So we just
494
00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:47.500
set up a distillery in Belize called Bakehouse Distillery. We've
495
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:52.539
set up like three distilleries in Japan, you know, craft
496
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:57.569
distilleries in Japan. So it's been quite an adventure. I mean, really,
497
00:26:57.609 --> 00:27:01.470
even Robert was in Uganda setting up the largest rum
498
00:27:01.509 --> 00:27:06.819
distillery there. So- There's been a lot that's happened around
499
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:11.099
Koval and because of Koval and in tandem with Koval
500
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:16.009
that has given us a really fun look at the
501
00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:17.069
industry as a whole.
502
00:27:18.029 --> 00:27:20.910
Yeah, I didn't think about it because I had read that, yeah,
503
00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:23.109
you guys were the first one, especially since Prohibition to
504
00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:27.059
start in Chicago. But I didn't think about back in 2008,
505
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:31.720
like you were saying, the craft scene of alcohol was
506
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:35.160
not really a thing. Like craft beer, obviously, was everywhere.
507
00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:39.329
But by that point, that hasn't even started yet. So
508
00:27:39.450 --> 00:27:43.509
you guys, obviously, Balcones here in Texas, I would imagine
509
00:27:43.529 --> 00:27:45.549
there was a couple other here in a couple other
510
00:27:45.569 --> 00:27:49.890
states as well, but there wasn't much. And now again,
511
00:27:50.269 --> 00:27:52.230
if you go into a liquor store, obviously, you're going
512
00:27:52.250 --> 00:27:53.970
to see the big guys. But at the same time,
513
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:56.740
they're running out of room when it comes to having
514
00:27:57.339 --> 00:28:00.019
all this, whether it be local or more craft, wherever
515
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.589
it's coming from. But again, back in, you know, almost
516
00:28:02.589 --> 00:28:03.910
20 years ago, that wasn't a thing.
517
00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:09.150
Exactly. Exactly. So it was a very interesting time to
518
00:28:09.190 --> 00:28:12.509
get started. And it was also very exciting to be
519
00:28:12.569 --> 00:28:16.630
involved in helping other people and providing them with really
520
00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:20.359
great equipment and also, you know, good systems that help
521
00:28:20.390 --> 00:28:23.680
them compete, you know, in, in this world, because it's
522
00:28:23.779 --> 00:28:27.460
a really tough business. Yeah. Um, and you know, as
523
00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:30.420
we've seen, I believe last year, 25% of all craft
524
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:32.490
distilleries in the United States went out of business.
525
00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:32.970
Yeah.
526
00:28:33.829 --> 00:28:36.829
So it's, it's, it's a tough business in general and
527
00:28:36.869 --> 00:28:40.410
it's a business that's gotten even tougher. So, uh, I
528
00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:45.339
feel like, you know, helping people in this industry survive
529
00:28:45.380 --> 00:28:48.579
and thrive has been really one of the greatest parts of,
530
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.019
of doing what we're doing. It's, it's, you know, you
531
00:28:53.059 --> 00:28:56.680
talk about community. I mean, that's, It's really nice to
532
00:28:57.259 --> 00:29:01.089
know that people that were in our original classes and that,
533
00:29:01.109 --> 00:29:04.470
you know, were some of our first customers, they also
534
00:29:04.549 --> 00:29:07.170
now have children, they're about to go to college and,
535
00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:10.890
and that that's how they supported their families and that
536
00:29:10.970 --> 00:29:14.319
other people were supported by working for them. And it's,
537
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.839
it's really exciting that we were part of this whole
538
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.480
new industry in the United States. And it was so
539
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:26.410
new that when we were getting going, the TTB had
540
00:29:26.430 --> 00:29:29.880
to send one of their, well, he happened to live
541
00:29:30.019 --> 00:29:33.700
about a block from the distillery itself, but the TTB
542
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:39.430
rewrote a lot of their regulations and rules related to
543
00:29:39.589 --> 00:29:44.319
craft distilleries sort of modeled off of us because the
544
00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:48.839
way things were written before just did not apply to
545
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.900
a craft distillery it just didn't like you weren't going
546
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:55.559
to be a craft distillery and have everything like bolted
547
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.960
to the ground if you were using a plastic, you know,
548
00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:02.039
fermentation tank that you were just like moving around with
549
00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:02.539
a forklift.
550
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:07.160
I mean, like there were things that just, just didn't work,
551
00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:08.619
you know, in the old format.
552
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:12.029
So it was nice to be a part of, you know,
553
00:30:12.109 --> 00:30:15.349
forging all of that ahead into, you know, new ways
554
00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:16.190
of doing business.
555
00:30:17.109 --> 00:30:19.710
So you mentioned earlier about how, you know, last year,
556
00:30:19.750 --> 00:30:24.509
at least 25% were, are now closed, unfortunately. Being in
557
00:30:24.529 --> 00:30:26.750
the industry, as long as you have What have you
558
00:30:26.789 --> 00:30:28.819
kind of seen? Obviously, you know, we're going to have
559
00:30:28.890 --> 00:30:31.339
peaks and valleys and we might think you might be
560
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.160
entering somewhat of a valley now. I don't know how
561
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:35.619
much it is with tariffs or obviously they're saying the
562
00:30:35.660 --> 00:30:39.480
next generation is not drinking as much or again, people
563
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:41.359
not having that third space or whatever it is. But
564
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:43.519
what have you kind of seen when it comes to
565
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:46.440
obviously the ebbs and flows over these past few years?
566
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.700
Yeah. You know, it's been really interesting because I think
567
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:56.150
that they're, one of the ebbs and flows that I've
568
00:30:56.230 --> 00:31:02.450
noticed has been in the interest in American spirits in general.
569
00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:08.200
We have been available internationally for a very long time,
570
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:12.700
I would say over 15 years. And with that you know,
571
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.440
that means that we don't just send our products over
572
00:31:15.579 --> 00:31:19.950
to Europe or Japan and hope for the best. We
573
00:31:20.029 --> 00:31:23.130
actually have to be involved in those markets and go
574
00:31:23.230 --> 00:31:27.109
to those markets and hold those markets. And one of
575
00:31:27.170 --> 00:31:29.460
the things we were noticing, and I would say particularly
576
00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:32.700
in Europe, was that when we first started going to
577
00:31:32.740 --> 00:31:34.480
a lot of these trade shows, and I mean, like,
578
00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:39.640
Not the big ones. I'm not talking about like ProVine or,
579
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:42.759
you know, Bar Convent Berlin, but I'm talking about like
580
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:48.160
smaller side like trade shows that you'd find, like maybe
581
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.000
one that was happening in Rome or one that was
582
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.099
happening in like Frankfurt or, you know, ones that, you know,
583
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:57.299
were not like huge headliners, but were certainly important in
584
00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:01.910
the cities where they existed. Right. And you did not
585
00:32:02.009 --> 00:32:04.930
see a lot of American whiskey brands at these shows.
586
00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:08.400
You just did not in the very early days when
587
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.059
we were going to these shows. But then over time,
588
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:15.039
it started to really grow and develop. And there was
589
00:32:15.299 --> 00:32:19.509
much more interest in American whiskey. And it was like, really,
590
00:32:19.549 --> 00:32:22.750
there was an excitement around it. And you'd go and,
591
00:32:23.069 --> 00:32:26.730
you know, all the guys that were there that, you know,
592
00:32:26.769 --> 00:32:29.670
were wearing kilts and had like, you know, they're tasting
593
00:32:30.109 --> 00:32:32.849
around their necks. And, you know, like the, you know,
594
00:32:32.869 --> 00:32:37.970
the real, true whiskey. you know, whiskey event goers, you know,
595
00:32:37.990 --> 00:32:41.470
we're coming over to sort of the American booths way
596
00:32:41.529 --> 00:32:47.799
more than ever before. And then you started having like
597
00:32:48.259 --> 00:32:51.940
tariffs and, and this has been true. This is regardless
598
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.299
of administration, you know, these tariffs were happening like on
599
00:32:55.339 --> 00:32:58.099
and off and the threat of them were happening on
600
00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:01.900
and off. So then that sort of started causing some issues.
601
00:33:02.549 --> 00:33:08.269
And then COVID really messed a lot up because, you know,
602
00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:12.589
the momentum that had been growing was shut off. You know,
603
00:33:12.869 --> 00:33:17.589
exporting abroad became very difficult, you know, because shipping was
604
00:33:17.710 --> 00:33:21.609
horribly expensive. And so there was like a lot of
605
00:33:22.390 --> 00:33:28.140
people turned a lot more inward, local, which is, you know, fine.
606
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:32.039
It is what it is. But it was really hard
607
00:33:32.259 --> 00:33:35.349
on brands that had spent a lot of time and
608
00:33:35.450 --> 00:33:38.710
energy building things up in markets that were far away
609
00:33:38.809 --> 00:33:42.289
that then became kind of closed off because of COVID.
610
00:33:42.410 --> 00:33:46.809
And then afterwards, more also because of more tariffs and
611
00:33:46.829 --> 00:33:51.309
then because of people getting a little grumpy with America,
612
00:33:52.369 --> 00:33:55.490
as we've seen with Canada and some other places. So
613
00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:01.890
it's I'm hoping, you know, as our trade organization says, toasts,
614
00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:04.950
not tariffs, you know, but also, you know, we're all
615
00:34:04.970 --> 00:34:08.590
about good times and building bridges. I feel like that's
616
00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:11.460
what the liquor industry is all about. And so I
617
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:16.300
feel that, you know, we're not just soft diplomacy, but
618
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:20.320
we're like fun people. party diplomacy, you know, what, there's
619
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.480
no better kind, you know, than going to a party
620
00:34:23.539 --> 00:34:26.840
and celebrating with people and drinking great spirits. And so
621
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:32.820
I'm hopeful that over time, you know, things will, you know,
622
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:37.039
get better and, and that it will become more exciting
623
00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:40.510
for American brands to be going to some of these
624
00:34:40.590 --> 00:34:44.449
trade shows and getting a lot of interest and, But
625
00:34:44.530 --> 00:34:48.969
it's been rough with everything that's gone on, whether it's tariffs, COVID,
626
00:34:49.429 --> 00:34:55.900
and this general cultural shift that we've seen post-COVID, where
627
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:57.719
a lot of people just don't go out as much.
628
00:34:58.380 --> 00:35:04.400
They're used to ordering in. And so that's an issue.
629
00:35:04.420 --> 00:35:07.789
A lot of people have gotten into... you know, a
630
00:35:08.590 --> 00:35:13.320
interest in, um, no drinking, you know, first it was like,
631
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:17.039
you know, dry January and now it's like dry many months,
632
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.019
you know, for people, you know, it's like, so, which
633
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.489
is fine. It's, you know, these are, these are things
634
00:35:22.570 --> 00:35:24.630
that ebb and flow and people need to do whatever's,
635
00:35:24.929 --> 00:35:31.179
you But obviously, it's been hurtful for the industry to
636
00:35:31.219 --> 00:35:34.599
have these trends take people away from going out and
637
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.300
having some drinks with friends at a restaurant or a bar,
638
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:41.420
or even going and buying the drinks in a retail
639
00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:44.989
store and making them at home. So these are other things. Obviously,
640
00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:48.750
another issue that's affecting things, and we'll see how this
641
00:35:48.909 --> 00:35:51.590
ebbs and flows over time, is Ozempic.
642
00:35:51.809 --> 00:35:53.449
The GLP-1s are not helping.
643
00:35:54.909 --> 00:35:57.869
No, I can't deny that those are, have not been
644
00:35:57.909 --> 00:36:02.670
great for, you know, drinking or going out and eating
645
00:36:02.849 --> 00:36:06.469
for that matter. So it's, you know, these are all things,
646
00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:10.250
I think they're trends, obviously, you know, they'll ebb and
647
00:36:10.309 --> 00:36:13.130
flow as well. Alcohol has been around for a very
648
00:36:13.170 --> 00:36:18.199
long time. And, and at the end of the day,
649
00:36:18.219 --> 00:36:22.329
it still is a lot of fun. and joyful to
650
00:36:22.349 --> 00:36:24.909
go out with friends and to drink some cocktails. I mean,
651
00:36:25.809 --> 00:36:28.489
it always has been for me. So I would imagine
652
00:36:28.989 --> 00:36:32.880
that part doesn't change. It's just some people may leave
653
00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:35.059
it for a while or come back to it. We'll see.
654
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:36.320
But yeah.
655
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:42.519
Have you thought about adding protein to your drink? So funny.
656
00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:44.860
Honestly, that would do really well. Let me tell you.
657
00:36:44.889 --> 00:36:47.519
I'm waiting for the first alcohol company to do it
658
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:49.340
i'm just gonna i'm just gonna because i was like
659
00:36:49.420 --> 00:36:51.539
what we don't need to be adding protein everything.
660
00:36:52.059 --> 00:36:54.639
Believe me i mean protein is such a.
661
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.429
Thing fiber is next if yeah which people aren't going
662
00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:02.070
to realize that you can have too much fiber yeah.
663
00:37:01.929 --> 00:37:05.849
Oh for sure yeah yeah fiber protein creatine you name
664
00:37:05.929 --> 00:37:09.469
it that's what like everyone's drinking but yeah i i
665
00:37:09.610 --> 00:37:12.610
still think there's something to be said for an old-fashioned.
666
00:37:12.489 --> 00:37:16.139
Oh same without it up you can It's its own thing.
667
00:37:16.300 --> 00:37:19.380
You know, but yeah, sure. Go to the gym, drink
668
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:21.960
your creatine, then go out with friends and have cocktail.
669
00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:23.699
Yes, exactly. You earned it. You went to the gym.
670
00:37:24.219 --> 00:37:26.380
You did. You did a good job. Well done.
671
00:37:28.510 --> 00:37:30.230
I also kind of want, well, I mean, you guys
672
00:37:30.269 --> 00:37:33.010
have already been doing it with your, so I need
673
00:37:33.030 --> 00:37:36.210
to preface this. The RTD market is one of the
674
00:37:36.309 --> 00:37:40.329
only growing categories inside the whole alcohol world, whether it
675
00:37:40.349 --> 00:37:42.980
be the buzz balls or actual like, you know, what
676
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.340
we see when it comes to liquor side. So you
677
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:48.099
guys have been doing this. How long have y'all had
678
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:48.760
canned cocktails?
679
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:50.550
About a year.
680
00:37:50.949 --> 00:37:51.469
Okay.
681
00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:52.469
Yeah.
682
00:37:52.809 --> 00:37:54.869
Now was that decision because you saw what was happening
683
00:37:54.889 --> 00:37:55.389
with the market?
684
00:37:55.869 --> 00:37:59.809
Um, it's, you know, it's, it's a different channel. I mean, it's, it's, yes,
685
00:38:00.050 --> 00:38:02.690
it's with the market. It's sort of how people like
686
00:38:02.710 --> 00:38:05.900
to drink sometimes, but it's also, you know, it's, It's,
687
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.519
it's great for venues where they don't want a glass,
688
00:38:09.699 --> 00:38:15.170
you know, so like poolside or, you know, golf clubs or,
689
00:38:15.590 --> 00:38:19.030
you know, we, we wanted to see how it would work,
690
00:38:19.510 --> 00:38:22.070
you know, opening up these new channels.
691
00:38:23.030 --> 00:38:24.010
How has it worked so far?
692
00:38:24.929 --> 00:38:26.530
You know, it's okay. I would say at the end
693
00:38:26.570 --> 00:38:31.829
of the day, um, when you put an organic spirit
694
00:38:31.869 --> 00:38:33.670
that costs a lot of money to make into a
695
00:38:33.730 --> 00:38:37.940
canned cocktail, you're competing against some products on the market
696
00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:42.440
that are significantly less expensive. You know, obviously we don't
697
00:38:42.579 --> 00:38:45.880
use chemicals. We don't use dyes. We don't do any
698
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:48.860
of that stuff. And so, you know, what we're putting
699
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:51.530
in there is not cheap to stick in a can,
700
00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:55.369
even if it's in. So, you know, I have mixed reviews.
701
00:38:58.570 --> 00:39:01.349
Well, so have you, what do you think of this
702
00:39:01.429 --> 00:39:04.650
trend that I hope happens more, but it is people
703
00:39:04.690 --> 00:39:08.429
actually putting the ingredients or the nutritional stuff right there
704
00:39:08.570 --> 00:39:09.369
on the labels as well?
705
00:39:10.030 --> 00:39:12.050
Sure. By all means. I mean, we've always said what
706
00:39:12.070 --> 00:39:14.630
we put in our, our bottles. So if you look
707
00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:17.489
at Koval, it says the mash bill and, you know,
708
00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:21.019
and we've done even more. We just did an update
709
00:39:21.219 --> 00:39:25.550
of our Koval packaging and we're even more explicit on
710
00:39:25.550 --> 00:39:28.880
that or you can see even more stuff and, you know,
711
00:39:28.969 --> 00:39:34.059
how it's sustainably made, how it's uses regenerative agriculture, you know,
712
00:39:34.219 --> 00:39:38.179
organic is now embossed on the bottle to just drive
713
00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:42.219
that part home. So, you know, that there's like, you know,
714
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:45.380
no dye, like all that kind of stuff. So sure. Yeah.
715
00:39:45.769 --> 00:39:50.030
By all means. But I don't think it's likely that
716
00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:54.030
there's going to be a lot of that in the
717
00:39:54.070 --> 00:39:56.429
liquor industry. Keep in mind, it's like the only industry
718
00:39:56.489 --> 00:40:02.639
in which you don't have that really on the bottles. And,
719
00:40:03.699 --> 00:40:06.099
you know, and it's one of these industries where you
720
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.619
can put things in and not have to tell anybody.
721
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:09.699
Yeah.
722
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.400
On very shady, you know, you can add like, sugar,
723
00:40:14.619 --> 00:40:18.949
citric acid, what is it? Like also glycerol, like these
724
00:40:18.989 --> 00:40:22.269
things into vodka. I mean, you think vodka is like pure,
725
00:40:22.449 --> 00:40:26.079
you know, or it's like a clean spirit. Well, it's
726
00:40:26.139 --> 00:40:29.820
probably full of something because it's legal, you know, and
727
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:33.360
people can look this up, you know, TTB, what can
728
00:40:33.380 --> 00:40:36.409
I add to vodka? And there are plenty of companies
729
00:40:36.449 --> 00:40:42.360
that sell like flavor enhancing you know formulas for vodka
730
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.099
um i mean we know we can solve for people
731
00:40:45.179 --> 00:40:48.500
so we know what everybody's doing but at least a
732
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:52.519
lot of people so it's just it's a it's it's
733
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:56.900
i'm all for it because you know we're happy to
734
00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:58.320
do that but i'm sure there are a lot of
735
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:02.699
people who are a lot more powerful oh yeah don't
736
00:41:02.780 --> 00:41:06.579
want to do that so we'll see when that happens Yeah.
737
00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:08.840
You're not going to see the big guys. You're not
738
00:41:08.860 --> 00:41:10.699
going to start seeing that on Jack Daniels or Jim
739
00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:14.739
Bean or even Balcones or anything like that. Like Tito's
740
00:41:14.780 --> 00:41:17.019
vodka is also not going to put all their ingredients.
741
00:41:17.059 --> 00:41:19.320
Like most of them are not going to make that happen.
742
00:41:20.380 --> 00:41:22.969
Yeah. I mean, I don't know what they're doing, but
743
00:41:23.179 --> 00:41:26.630
I would imagine that, you know, some of these companies
744
00:41:26.829 --> 00:41:32.110
probably would rather not share what goes into their products. So,
745
00:41:32.230 --> 00:41:34.469
you know, but I don't know which ones I don't,
746
00:41:35.500 --> 00:41:38.110
I don't know what these big guys are up to.
747
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:42.289
I don't think you want to know, honestly. You might
748
00:41:42.309 --> 00:41:43.190
not sleep as well at night.
749
00:41:43.750 --> 00:41:46.869
Yeah, I stay in my lane. I worry about how
750
00:41:46.889 --> 00:41:50.929
to make my own stuff better. I'm not one of
751
00:41:50.949 --> 00:41:53.449
those people that sort of like follows the competition or
752
00:41:53.469 --> 00:41:58.019
worries about that or like those kinds of trends. I mean,
753
00:41:58.059 --> 00:42:00.760
I'm just like, okay, what can we be doing better?
754
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:05.300
But that's my main mantra. So more, you know, I
755
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:10.610
wish them all the best. But yeah, for us, we
756
00:42:10.650 --> 00:42:13.269
just need to be laser focused on what we're doing.
757
00:42:14.110 --> 00:42:17.369
Well, coming from academics and then getting into the alcohol world,
758
00:42:17.670 --> 00:42:20.530
I imagine your brain was just flooded because it's like
759
00:42:20.670 --> 00:42:22.750
trying to drink from a fire hose when it comes
760
00:42:22.769 --> 00:42:25.809
to the alcohol world. But what were some things that
761
00:42:26.789 --> 00:42:28.909
actually did fascinate you? And then what were something that
762
00:42:28.949 --> 00:42:33.219
you were just like, I will probably never understand this?
763
00:42:33.500 --> 00:42:38.300
Well... you know, it's an art and a science. Yeah. And,
764
00:42:38.380 --> 00:42:40.260
you know, in the very beginning, it was just me
765
00:42:40.300 --> 00:42:42.780
and Robert. So we kind of did everything together. And
766
00:42:42.820 --> 00:42:47.000
if Robert was like setting up a distillery, you know,
767
00:42:47.019 --> 00:42:50.579
I would have to like sometimes do some of these
768
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:53.980
distilling runs myself and this and that I would follow
769
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:56.840
like all the instructions and just make sure I was
770
00:42:56.860 --> 00:42:59.500
doing everything the way, you know, But I would say
771
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:03.780
like distilling really well is it's not easy sometimes. I mean,
772
00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:07.000
especially when you're working with grains that are incredibly viscous,
773
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:09.639
you know, like rye, stuff like that. So I would
774
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.510
say like, you know, as our business grew, I was
775
00:43:13.070 --> 00:43:16.369
very happy that, you know, Robert took over all of
776
00:43:16.469 --> 00:43:20.730
the production side of things entirely. And I was able
777
00:43:20.750 --> 00:43:23.489
to focus more on like the sales and the marketing
778
00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:27.440
and building that. And so it's been really wonderful, like,
779
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:31.760
you know, working with my husband, knowing that he's like
780
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.360
so fantastic at what he does, you know, and that
781
00:43:35.539 --> 00:43:38.110
I can focus on the things that I do best. So,
782
00:43:38.659 --> 00:43:41.710
but it doesn't mean I'm not like fascinated. I'm always
783
00:43:41.849 --> 00:43:46.469
fascinated by, you know, yeast strains and like, Oh, we
784
00:43:46.550 --> 00:43:48.309
use champagne yeast for this, or should we use a
785
00:43:48.389 --> 00:43:50.030
different kind of yeast for that? So it's like, those
786
00:43:50.070 --> 00:43:53.829
are like fun things to talk about and to enjoy and,
787
00:43:54.269 --> 00:43:56.329
there are a lot of little intricacies and certainly we
788
00:43:56.530 --> 00:44:00.010
love working with alternative grains. And so that's been like
789
00:44:00.050 --> 00:44:03.019
a fun sort of passion project for all of us
790
00:44:03.099 --> 00:44:06.980
to explore different grains and working with oat and working
791
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:10.440
with millet and, you know, working with buckwheat and all
792
00:44:10.460 --> 00:44:14.079
of these like fun grains, but not just that, but
793
00:44:14.139 --> 00:44:17.670
also with like fun other things to distill, like like
794
00:44:17.710 --> 00:44:21.070
Jerusalem artichokes, or we made a topinopura, which is like
795
00:44:21.110 --> 00:44:25.409
the Austrian or German word for a Jerusalem artichoke brandy. And,
796
00:44:25.889 --> 00:44:29.659
you know, like, so there's so many fun and exciting
797
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:34.239
things to geek out about in this business and industry. Also,
798
00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:38.460
like I find, you know, the hardware pretty amazing, you know,
799
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:44.860
the still construction and also the automation. And now it's
800
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:48.530
not just like the automation, but it's, it's AI and
801
00:44:48.610 --> 00:44:52.309
how that can be integrated into automation and collecting big
802
00:44:52.349 --> 00:44:55.969
data and figuring out when the best yields are for
803
00:44:56.030 --> 00:45:00.280
various grains to, to buy and to work with our farmers. And,
804
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:03.119
you know, so there's, there's so many things that you
805
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:06.679
can be really like excited and geek out about, but
806
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:11.210
I would say like, in general, what's been most fun
807
00:45:11.250 --> 00:45:15.489
and exciting is just the, the, the breadth, like just
808
00:45:15.530 --> 00:45:20.190
the ability to, to be able to think about and
809
00:45:20.469 --> 00:45:24.730
explore so many different things. You know, it's like, it
810
00:45:24.789 --> 00:45:28.150
is like academia where you're able to sort of like
811
00:45:28.289 --> 00:45:31.010
really just spend a lot of time learning, you know,
812
00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:34.780
and that's something that we were given the opportunity to
813
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:37.869
do with this. And also through consulting where like, we'd
814
00:45:37.929 --> 00:45:40.789
be given like a project and we'd have to like
815
00:45:40.989 --> 00:45:44.889
research it and figure it out and help other people
816
00:45:44.949 --> 00:45:48.489
with their issues. And that's been really super fun. Like, yeah,
817
00:45:48.510 --> 00:45:51.630
I remember we did this wild project for these guys
818
00:45:51.690 --> 00:45:55.809
that wanted to sell only to China and they wanted
819
00:45:55.929 --> 00:45:58.739
us to make like a Baiju for them. but like
820
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:02.449
in a really traditional way where we then were like
821
00:46:02.570 --> 00:46:07.469
working with like pottery studios and getting clay pots and
822
00:46:07.550 --> 00:46:10.789
like all sorts. I mean like really wild, fun stuff
823
00:46:10.849 --> 00:46:14.780
that we've like done in the past through all of
824
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.659
our work consulting that, you know, is really fun and wild. So,
825
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:23.730
you know, I would say that, that it's, It's always
826
00:46:23.789 --> 00:46:33.199
different and it's always something. So, yeah, it's so, you know,
827
00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:35.659
it's hard to like pinpoint one thing because there's just
828
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:36.280
been so much.
829
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:38.920
That makes sense. Well, so when it comes, I mean,
830
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:42.090
obviously you own this business with your husband and you
831
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:44.389
guys are doing this all the time. Is there a
832
00:46:44.449 --> 00:46:47.510
time where you have to have like a safe word
833
00:46:47.550 --> 00:46:49.869
where you're like, okay, we're done talking about business. not
834
00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:52.469
happening we're out around vacation or we're out to dinner
835
00:46:52.510 --> 00:46:56.010
or whatever.
836
00:46:55.889 --> 00:46:58.920
It is no there's there's not there's none of that
837
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.860
like literally my kids probably have an mba now in
838
00:47:02.900 --> 00:47:06.760
business like even though they like you know my my
839
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:09.429
older son is just a freshman in college but literally
840
00:47:09.489 --> 00:47:12.030
like they know everything they know about trademarks they know
841
00:47:12.050 --> 00:47:14.619
about trademark law they know about this, they know about
842
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:19.289
international law, they know about trade, you know, trade wars, trade, like,
843
00:47:19.769 --> 00:47:22.469
they know about new, I mean, literally, it's like, there
844
00:47:22.530 --> 00:47:27.269
isn't a dinner, a family dinner, anything where something doesn't
845
00:47:27.469 --> 00:47:30.849
seep in, right? Like, really not. And people might think
846
00:47:30.889 --> 00:47:33.210
that sounds horrible. But at the end of the day,
847
00:47:33.989 --> 00:47:37.590
if you, you know, enjoy the people you're working with,
848
00:47:37.710 --> 00:47:43.579
and you enjoy what you're doing, why does it matter? Yeah. Now, granted,
849
00:47:44.179 --> 00:47:47.199
Robert's not usually thrilled when at two in the morning,
850
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:50.090
like I have this great idea about like how we
851
00:47:50.130 --> 00:47:53.409
can approach distribution and like this particular market. And he's like,
852
00:47:53.550 --> 00:47:58.150
oh my God, he's like, please, like, can we table this?
853
00:47:58.170 --> 00:48:00.960
And I'm like, no, we got to talk about this
854
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:05.010
right now. And so like, I'm like, get out the computer,
855
00:48:05.030 --> 00:48:06.980
you know, and then we'll like get out the computers
856
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:08.980
and then we'll like sometimes like work on some sort
857
00:48:09.019 --> 00:48:10.260
of problem like in the middle of the night. And
858
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.480
I'm sure that that's not the most like, you know, thrilling,
859
00:48:13.980 --> 00:48:17.639
wonderful thing. But sometimes it's in the middle of the
860
00:48:17.659 --> 00:48:20.019
night that you have like your best ideas or you've
861
00:48:20.059 --> 00:48:22.530
got like a really great way of doing something. So
862
00:48:22.550 --> 00:48:24.269
we kind of just roll with it.
863
00:48:25.090 --> 00:48:28.190
I've heard people put notepads right by their bed or
864
00:48:28.230 --> 00:48:30.090
they use the note app and they'll just do that.
865
00:48:30.349 --> 00:48:32.090
Then they'll go back to bed. Then they wake up
866
00:48:32.110 --> 00:48:33.650
the next morning and it's like, oh, what was I
867
00:48:33.710 --> 00:48:36.110
thinking about whenever I was blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
868
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:41.900
I am a strong advocate of like these late night, midnight,
869
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.900
wake up in the middle of the night ideas that
870
00:48:44.059 --> 00:48:48.440
they can be very good, I will say. But sometimes
871
00:48:48.460 --> 00:48:52.440
we have a tendency to then like just start working
872
00:48:52.579 --> 00:48:56.170
on it. So, you know. Yeah. probably isn't always the
873
00:48:56.210 --> 00:48:59.420
best but we're not you know great sleepers so oh.
874
00:48:59.489 --> 00:49:01.900
Well there you go then then that's perfectly fine yeah
875
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.159
yeah there you go well maybe i mean you're functional
876
00:49:06.219 --> 00:49:07.679
obviously so you don't yeah.
877
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:09.960
Exactly that's what my doctor says i'm like what if
878
00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:11.719
i don't what if i get like four hours of
879
00:49:11.780 --> 00:49:13.969
sleep i mean he's like well if you're able to
880
00:49:14.030 --> 00:49:17.989
function it's probably okay but so yeah.
881
00:49:17.210 --> 00:49:22.239
We're functioned yeah you're fun yeah Well, I mean, so
882
00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:23.960
when you're creating a brand, obviously you have to figure
883
00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:25.079
out what the name is going to be, what the
884
00:49:25.139 --> 00:49:27.099
logo is going to be, what the bottle looks like.
885
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:29.710
You have to figure all that out. How did kind
886
00:49:29.730 --> 00:49:31.210
of all those things come together for y'all?
887
00:49:32.349 --> 00:49:36.610
Well, it came together because we were really bad at it. Um,
888
00:49:37.150 --> 00:49:40.000
in the sense that, you know, there are some things
889
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.599
that we're good at. Um, and then there's some things
890
00:49:43.619 --> 00:49:45.179
that we're really good at. And then there's some things
891
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:49.570
that really somebody needs to step up and be like, guys, like,
892
00:49:50.070 --> 00:49:55.570
like do an intervention. And so my sister, um, gave
893
00:49:55.610 --> 00:49:58.010
sort of like a little intervention. Luckily this was very
894
00:49:58.090 --> 00:50:00.980
early days. So when it was, things were a lot
895
00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:05.300
more forgiving in this liquor industry. So when we first started,
896
00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:08.099
you know, Robert and I literally did everything ourselves and
897
00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:14.630
neither of us are particularly artistic people, visually artistic people
898
00:50:14.690 --> 00:50:17.849
at all. Robert's certainly a great artist when it comes
899
00:50:17.909 --> 00:50:22.699
to distilling, but, but yeah, So, you know, we made
900
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:26.139
a lot of labels ourselves. Luckily, my mom is an artist.
901
00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:29.150
And so for our liqueurs, she drew beautiful imagery for
902
00:50:29.190 --> 00:50:29.670
our liqueurs.
903
00:50:29.789 --> 00:50:31.289
Oh, yeah. Those labels are amazing.
904
00:50:31.869 --> 00:50:35.610
Yeah. So that was gorgeous. But, you know, our original,
905
00:50:35.989 --> 00:50:41.139
you know, labels and our original whiskey was just Robert
906
00:50:41.179 --> 00:50:43.360
and I. My mom did give us a little lion
907
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.440
to go on the front because it was our original
908
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:48.659
whiskey was called like Lion's Pride. Right. And so she
909
00:50:48.699 --> 00:50:50.340
gave us a little line, but then we messed up
910
00:50:50.380 --> 00:50:52.320
the rest of it because we put all these like
911
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:57.030
random fonts together and we literally made it probably on word,
912
00:50:57.449 --> 00:51:00.389
you know, some like Sunday morning while our like little
913
00:51:00.429 --> 00:51:03.030
kids at the time were like watching wheels on the bus.
914
00:51:03.110 --> 00:51:07.469
And like, it was just, um, not the best. And
915
00:51:07.530 --> 00:51:10.289
so my sister who's been in fashion for her whole
916
00:51:10.309 --> 00:51:14.210
life and, um, had a design for me, how lucky
917
00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:19.039
she got all those jeans. Um, had a design firm, um,
918
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:22.340
called Dando projects. She kept being like, I think you
919
00:51:22.420 --> 00:51:25.579
really need to change your branding. You're only going to
920
00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:27.679
do it. You know, why don't you go to somebody
921
00:51:27.739 --> 00:51:30.070
just like her branding? Cause she did like fashion at
922
00:51:30.090 --> 00:51:33.630
the time, not like her. And so we did, we
923
00:51:33.670 --> 00:51:35.510
went to somebody that did like her and they did
924
00:51:35.530 --> 00:51:40.840
a really good job. like more than we had at
925
00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:44.480
the time for like a really good laugh. It was like,
926
00:51:44.860 --> 00:51:49.460
it was laughably bad. So my sister was horrified because
927
00:51:49.579 --> 00:51:51.860
she sort of told us to do this and then
928
00:51:51.909 --> 00:51:53.929
it went terribly wrong. And so she's like, I'm just
929
00:51:53.949 --> 00:51:55.889
going to do this myself. And so then she did.
930
00:51:56.489 --> 00:51:59.670
And then we started winning all these design awards. So like,
931
00:52:00.190 --> 00:52:04.590
then she did our gin and our gin packaging was like,
932
00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:08.639
was a paper label that was foiled and embossed and
933
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:11.420
laser cut. And it was actually the first one that
934
00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:14.559
was like so intricately laser cut out as it is.
935
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:19.960
And it ended up being in a design museum in
936
00:52:20.099 --> 00:52:24.559
Italy at one point. It's just, it did like really well.
937
00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:28.119
And it was just, it's a gorgeous label. So that
938
00:52:28.179 --> 00:52:32.119
really helped. She redid the original Koval whiskey line to
939
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:36.289
make it very simple, very clear, very clean. And she's
940
00:52:36.329 --> 00:52:41.190
also behind our new redesign of the whiskey branding. So
941
00:52:41.230 --> 00:52:44.130
we're very excited about that. But then when we wanted
942
00:52:44.170 --> 00:52:48.269
to do a high-end line, which we released last year,
943
00:52:48.289 --> 00:52:51.510
a year and a half ago, called Threshen Winnow. Yes.
944
00:52:51.530 --> 00:52:54.150
Tell us about that. Cause these bottles, if people go
945
00:52:54.170 --> 00:52:57.130
to your website and look at y'all spirits, these bottles
946
00:52:57.309 --> 00:52:58.230
are beautiful.
947
00:52:59.130 --> 00:53:04.110
Yeah. Uh, Dando projects, they are the best. They're really like,
948
00:53:04.309 --> 00:53:07.210
I might, they're like the best in the industry for
949
00:53:07.269 --> 00:53:10.969
liquor bottles. I mean, she's, she doesn't just design our bottles.
950
00:53:11.050 --> 00:53:13.130
I mean, she's done so many brands. And if you
951
00:53:13.150 --> 00:53:16.929
go to the Dando project, Instagram, you'll see a lot
952
00:53:16.969 --> 00:53:23.079
of gorgeous bottles that she's done. Um, But Thresh and Winnow,
953
00:53:23.099 --> 00:53:25.960
we wanted something. The design brief that I gave to
954
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:28.460
her was so hard, but she hit it out of
955
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:30.659
the park. I was like, I want something that reminds
956
00:53:30.739 --> 00:53:34.909
everybody that this is an agricultural product, that it is
957
00:53:34.929 --> 00:53:39.989
a organic product, that it is made land to bottle
958
00:53:40.090 --> 00:53:43.090
pretty much. And I want it to work for both
959
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:45.690
a gin line and a whiskey line, but look different.
960
00:53:46.750 --> 00:53:47.690
Like, oh, great.
961
00:53:47.829 --> 00:53:51.130
Okay. So, you know, she knocked it out of the park.
962
00:53:51.170 --> 00:53:55.920
The whiskey line won best packaging in the world for whiskey.
963
00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:56.900
I see it.
964
00:53:57.710 --> 00:54:00.190
Yeah, from the dye line, we wanted it to be
965
00:54:00.329 --> 00:54:02.250
a bottle no one would ever want to throw away,
966
00:54:02.269 --> 00:54:04.280
that they would use it as a vase, use it
967
00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:08.199
as a decanter, you know, use it to bring fun
968
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:11.199
cocktails to the table. Once the spirit's done, they could
969
00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:15.639
fill it up with like cocktails to serve. So it's gorgeous.
970
00:54:16.119 --> 00:54:21.239
And then the gin line, she was super innovative, which
971
00:54:21.260 --> 00:54:22.820
is probably also one of the reasons why she won
972
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:26.159
this Best Design Award, because on the front of the
973
00:54:26.260 --> 00:54:29.820
whiskey bottle is all the grains and on the back
974
00:54:30.019 --> 00:54:33.170
are botanicals. And then for the gin line, the front
975
00:54:33.250 --> 00:54:36.550
are the botanicals and on the back are the whiskey grains.
976
00:54:36.889 --> 00:54:40.570
And so it's a really, not just beautiful bottle, but
977
00:54:40.630 --> 00:54:46.030
incredibly innovative and really the only bottle like that, you know,
978
00:54:46.050 --> 00:54:49.940
in the world. And so- We were very blessed and
979
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:53.960
lucky that we have like a talented family that stands
980
00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:56.719
with us and helps us along the way.
981
00:54:56.880 --> 00:54:59.079
So, I mean, like you were talking about earlier, it's
982
00:54:59.159 --> 00:54:59.900
all about community.
983
00:55:00.659 --> 00:55:04.070
Yep, absolutely. And we're really lucky that, you know, a
984
00:55:04.110 --> 00:55:06.449
lot of what we've done with Koval is related to family.
985
00:55:07.300 --> 00:55:11.420
where we've always been inspired by family and believed in family.
986
00:55:11.559 --> 00:55:15.010
And honestly, the entire company's named after family. Koval was
987
00:55:15.050 --> 00:55:18.449
a nickname given to my great-grandfather when he left Vienna
988
00:55:18.489 --> 00:55:22.429
to come to Chicago to start a battery company. And
989
00:55:22.510 --> 00:55:25.429
they gave him the nickname because in many Eastern European languages,
990
00:55:25.510 --> 00:55:31.559
Koval means blacksmith or smith. In Yiddish, it also means
991
00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:35.789
somebody who, like a blacksmith, can take metal and twist
992
00:55:35.849 --> 00:55:41.650
its shape and change its direction. So can somebody do
993
00:55:41.710 --> 00:55:44.670
that with their life? Like they can take their life
994
00:55:45.269 --> 00:55:48.909
and go forge in a different direction. And that's what
995
00:55:48.949 --> 00:55:51.090
he did with his life. And in doing that, he
996
00:55:51.110 --> 00:55:55.789
got the nickname Koval, which happens to also mean Schmied,
997
00:55:56.050 --> 00:56:01.719
which is Robert's grandfather's last name, which also means Koval
998
00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:07.030
or blacksmith in German. So it honors both sides of
999
00:56:07.070 --> 00:56:11.690
the family. It honors the spirit of turning the page
1000
00:56:11.909 --> 00:56:14.969
and allowing your life to have a completely new chapter,
1001
00:56:15.820 --> 00:56:18.699
bending that metal. It's hard to change your life, but
1002
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.820
sometimes it's really well worth it. And so we did that.
1003
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:27.880
And the real amazing part of this whole thing is
1004
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:31.309
that as we grew in Chicago from one facility to
1005
00:56:31.369 --> 00:56:36.210
another and outgrew them and outgrew them, And we finally
1006
00:56:36.329 --> 00:56:38.889
found the space that we're in today, which is our
1007
00:56:38.929 --> 00:56:44.010
permanent home. We went into the building at the time
1008
00:56:44.070 --> 00:56:46.440
it was just for rent and we went into the
1009
00:56:46.500 --> 00:56:49.260
factory and actually it's the building you see behind my
1010
00:56:49.340 --> 00:56:53.380
picture here. We went into that warehouse and there was
1011
00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:57.400
nothing in it except for one thing in the middle
1012
00:56:57.420 --> 00:57:00.550
of the room. And we were very nervous because, you know,
1013
00:57:00.570 --> 00:57:03.329
it's like when you own your own business, it's like,
1014
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:07.940
any big move you make is like such a risk,
1015
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:12.329
you know, and, and putting yourself down for a big,
1016
00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:16.849
you know, rental payment every month, big, you know, payment it's,
1017
00:57:17.309 --> 00:57:21.210
it's a lease is really risky. And so it was
1018
00:57:21.269 --> 00:57:23.809
a very expensive one. We weren't sure we could do it.
1019
00:57:23.929 --> 00:57:26.889
And it really assumed a lot more growth. And then
1020
00:57:26.929 --> 00:57:29.550
I walked into the middle of the factory and what
1021
00:57:29.590 --> 00:57:33.989
I'd seen happened to be a battery charger made by
1022
00:57:34.050 --> 00:57:39.289
my great grandfather. Got the nickname Koval, yes. And it
1023
00:57:39.329 --> 00:57:41.869
had been left by the previous tenants. And I said
1024
00:57:41.989 --> 00:57:44.650
to the landlord at the time, I said, Mario, if
1025
00:57:44.769 --> 00:57:47.469
we rent this space from you, can I buy this
1026
00:57:47.610 --> 00:57:51.090
battery charger? And he's like, if you rent this space,
1027
00:57:51.150 --> 00:57:54.170
you can have it. And I was like, okay. We
1028
00:57:54.210 --> 00:57:56.869
have to do it. We have to do it. It
1029
00:57:56.909 --> 00:57:59.250
was just meant to be. And it really was meant
1030
00:57:59.289 --> 00:58:01.670
to be. And now it's our permanent home and we've
1031
00:58:01.710 --> 00:58:06.050
taken over the whole building and it's ours. And yeah,
1032
00:58:06.210 --> 00:58:07.889
it's been quite an adventure.
1033
00:58:08.469 --> 00:58:09.550
Where's the battery charger now?
1034
00:58:10.610 --> 00:58:18.050
It's actually in our little tour visitor center. I love that.
1035
00:58:19.130 --> 00:58:24.769
When we moved in, it actually worked. My grandfather's company stop.
1036
00:58:24.849 --> 00:58:28.789
They sold in the seventies and they hadn't existed since
1037
00:58:28.829 --> 00:58:32.090
the seventies, but the battery actually still worked. It was
1038
00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:34.329
a battery charger and we used it to charge our
1039
00:58:34.369 --> 00:58:35.849
forklift for years.
1040
00:58:36.329 --> 00:58:38.269
But then when we would tell the story, everyone would
1041
00:58:38.309 --> 00:58:40.150
want to go see it. And then it'd be in
1042
00:58:40.190 --> 00:58:40.849
like some.
1043
00:58:40.690 --> 00:58:43.690
Part of the factory or, you know, charging a forklift.
1044
00:58:43.730 --> 00:58:45.190
And then we'd have to like bring people down and
1045
00:58:45.210 --> 00:58:47.190
put on their safety glasses. And it was just like
1046
00:58:47.250 --> 00:58:50.010
a whole thing. So what we ended up doing is
1047
00:58:50.530 --> 00:58:55.349
we decommissioned it and just now it's in our Visitor Center.
1048
00:58:56.170 --> 00:58:56.750
That's beautiful.
1049
00:58:57.530 --> 00:59:01.530
Yeah, yeah. So, but it warms my heart whenever I
1050
00:59:01.530 --> 00:59:04.000
see it it's like it's it's amazing I feel like,
1051
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:07.210
you know, there are so many things that happen in
1052
00:59:07.250 --> 00:59:10.730
a person's life and they only are where they are
1053
00:59:10.789 --> 00:59:12.929
because of all the people who came before them and
1054
00:59:13.590 --> 00:59:17.469
sometimes they're like little ripples in time that show up
1055
00:59:17.570 --> 00:59:22.840
in really unexpected ways that show that you know all
1056
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.050
those people that came before you are kind of still
1057
00:59:25.090 --> 00:59:27.400
there in one way or another you know maybe you
1058
00:59:27.460 --> 00:59:30.389
see it maybe you have an experience like this maybe
1059
00:59:30.429 --> 00:59:34.010
it's just inside of you and you're realizing something that,
1060
00:59:34.739 --> 00:59:36.920
you know, may have been a dream of somebody that,
1061
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:41.920
you know, from long ago, but it's, it, it happens.
1062
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:43.179
And I think it's really beautiful.
1063
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:46.780
That's awesome. Well, so, I mean, you talk about, we
1064
00:59:46.940 --> 00:59:51.099
started in 2008, we're in 2026 now, 18 years later,
1065
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:54.909
what would you could, what would you tell that? What
1066
00:59:54.929 --> 00:59:57.230
would you tell yourself back in 2008?
1067
00:59:57.230 --> 01:00:02.489
Oh, back in 2008. Wow. I would say, goodness gracious.
1068
01:00:02.510 --> 01:00:05.469
I would, I would just remind myself to enjoy every
1069
01:00:05.610 --> 01:00:09.579
single moment because it goes so quickly and they were
1070
01:00:09.619 --> 01:00:13.239
all so beautiful. Like every different stage was, was really
1071
01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:16.719
fun and amazing in different ways. You know, it's like
1072
01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:19.059
when the kids were really little and we had our
1073
01:00:19.099 --> 01:00:22.179
kids close at hand and And they were, you know,
1074
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:24.719
at the business with us and they had their own office.
1075
01:00:24.860 --> 01:00:26.860
They had like their, you know, where they would go
1076
01:00:26.900 --> 01:00:28.699
to their office. So, you know, when we would go
1077
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:31.480
to our office and, and then we'd always, you know,
1078
01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:33.599
have lunch together and hang out and they would hear
1079
01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:36.500
all about everything that was going on. And, you know,
1080
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:38.760
they would try and tell us to get more billboards,
1081
01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:41.820
you know, like it was like, it was really fun and,
1082
01:00:42.030 --> 01:00:44.170
and it just goes so quickly, you know? And then
1083
01:00:44.210 --> 01:00:46.670
before you know it, you're dropping your kid off at college.
1084
01:00:46.750 --> 01:00:51.110
I mean, it's, it's shocking. how fast time goes. So
1085
01:00:51.190 --> 01:00:55.070
I would say back then to just enjoy every moment
1086
01:00:55.329 --> 01:00:57.929
because it goes so fast. And I think that's just
1087
01:00:57.989 --> 01:00:59.849
true for anything and everyone.
1088
01:00:59.869 --> 01:01:03.230
You're true. So you did kind of name some highlights there,
1089
01:01:03.289 --> 01:01:05.679
but what to you are some more highlights that you
1090
01:01:05.980 --> 01:01:07.480
y'all have had over the past few years?
1091
01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:10.880
I mean, I would say definitely seeing some of the
1092
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:15.699
people who are in our original, like early classes do
1093
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:21.269
very well. and become such important parts of the community
1094
01:01:21.289 --> 01:01:27.599
has been really happy and fun for us. You know,
1095
01:01:27.619 --> 01:01:31.559
so that's been great. I would say that how it's
1096
01:01:31.699 --> 01:01:35.199
opened the world to us has been so exciting. Being
1097
01:01:35.260 --> 01:01:42.940
able to go to Japan and, you know, work in Japan, like,
1098
01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:47.349
you know, and actually have, like, you know, colleagues there
1099
01:01:47.690 --> 01:01:50.849
and a team member who's there full time for us
1100
01:01:51.309 --> 01:01:55.570
and just get such an insight into a very different
1101
01:01:55.630 --> 01:02:01.230
place that I find very compelling and exciting and fun
1102
01:02:01.369 --> 01:02:05.630
and just super tasty. The food there, incredible. So that's
1103
01:02:05.690 --> 01:02:08.389
been a real joy that's really grown out of this.
1104
01:02:08.489 --> 01:02:11.360
I don't know if I would have ever had that.
1105
01:02:11.469 --> 01:02:15.199
And I'd always been very drawn to Japan as a child.
1106
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:20.260
Cause my, my parents were super into Japanese movies.
1107
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:21.360
Oh, interesting.
1108
01:02:21.980 --> 01:02:24.280
Yeah. I was like, you know, 12 years old and
1109
01:02:24.340 --> 01:02:27.429
it seemed like every Japanese movie that like had existed
1110
01:02:27.469 --> 01:02:31.449
probably that had made its way over to America. And,
1111
01:02:31.610 --> 01:02:35.730
you know, Chicago was really a strong, there was a
1112
01:02:35.730 --> 01:02:40.159
very strong Japanese community in Chicago. And we would always
1113
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:44.639
go to the Ginza festival in the summer and, And, uh,
1114
01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:48.300
and Toguri Mercantile Exchange, which was like a really, a
1115
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:53.800
neat store, um, in my old neighborhood. Um, it doesn't
1116
01:02:53.860 --> 01:02:57.159
exist anymore, sadly, but it was a real center of
1117
01:02:57.219 --> 01:02:59.610
Japanese culture. And so these were places that I grew
1118
01:02:59.619 --> 01:03:02.869
up going to and I loved it. And so it
1119
01:03:03.030 --> 01:03:07.150
felt very natural and to be able to really want
1120
01:03:07.170 --> 01:03:10.150
to do business there and want to, you know, become
1121
01:03:10.190 --> 01:03:14.860
sort of more involved in that world. And, and we've
1122
01:03:15.139 --> 01:03:18.699
really enjoyed that part. So I would say it's, you know, it's,
1123
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.460
it's opened up worlds, but what I would say, probably
1124
01:03:22.579 --> 01:03:27.219
one of the most amazing experiences, um, actually had nothing
1125
01:03:27.260 --> 01:03:31.139
to do with alcohol, well, drinkable alcohol at all. It
1126
01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:36.309
was actually during COVID. when we shifted everything to making
1127
01:03:36.349 --> 01:03:37.349
hand sanitizer.
1128
01:03:37.369 --> 01:03:38.050
That's awesome.
1129
01:03:38.070 --> 01:03:42.170
And updating all of it, most of what we made
1130
01:03:42.389 --> 01:03:48.880
to nonprofits and frontline workers and changing my entire business
1131
01:03:49.059 --> 01:03:53.420
from like a manufacturer of alcohol to a manufacturer of
1132
01:03:53.539 --> 01:03:59.099
like basically a sanitizer product, you know, that was like
1133
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:04.019
where we went from working, you know, in one industry
1134
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:09.829
to like talking to nursing homes and hospitals and, you know,
1135
01:04:10.489 --> 01:04:13.349
all sorts of things. But it was the fact that
1136
01:04:14.030 --> 01:04:20.369
my whole team really came together and didn't just work 110%,
1137
01:04:20.369 --> 01:04:22.579
but I would say like 200%. Like we were working
1138
01:04:22.599 --> 01:04:31.260
around the clock because we were, We're making it for
1139
01:04:31.300 --> 01:04:35.150
the entire city of Chicago. We were all of the
1140
01:04:35.210 --> 01:04:39.690
hospitals there. We were making it for places as far
1141
01:04:39.750 --> 01:04:44.889
away as like Maryland, you know, hospitals in Wisconsin, in Indiana,
1142
01:04:46.849 --> 01:04:50.179
you know, the FBI in the Midwest. I mean, like
1143
01:04:50.219 --> 01:04:53.320
you name it, like it was like we sold some
1144
01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:58.599
to businesses. But we gave away about a quarter of
1145
01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:03.880
a million dollars worth of hand sanitizer to help frontline workers.
1146
01:05:04.780 --> 01:05:07.199
And being able to work with the city and we
1147
01:05:07.239 --> 01:05:09.969
didn't do it alone. We did this with like every
1148
01:05:10.050 --> 01:05:12.789
brewery in the city of Chicago gave us their beer
1149
01:05:13.210 --> 01:05:18.750
that we distill into hand sanitizer and give to the
1150
01:05:18.809 --> 01:05:22.710
hospitals in Chicago. We talk about a beer run. We
1151
01:05:22.750 --> 01:05:28.139
did this with... So many other companies that donated their
1152
01:05:28.219 --> 01:05:33.760
glass and donated their their vessels. The company that makes
1153
01:05:33.860 --> 01:05:38.820
the the the containers for glue, you know, like children's glue,
1154
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:43.860
you know, glue, the company that makes those little containers
1155
01:05:43.900 --> 01:05:47.139
that you can like screw off the top. donated a
1156
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:49.099
bunch of those containers for us so that we can
1157
01:05:49.139 --> 01:05:52.619
make a hand sanitizer that could be donated to people
1158
01:05:53.059 --> 01:05:57.800
who were like unhoused and in that community because they
1159
01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:02.840
were out and they needed to clean their hands too
1160
01:06:02.980 --> 01:06:04.960
and be able to be safe and things like that.
1161
01:06:05.019 --> 01:06:09.239
So it was really an amazing experience. The City of
1162
01:06:09.300 --> 01:06:14.179
Chicago Tourism Board Choose Chicago started basically being a logistics
1163
01:06:14.579 --> 01:06:17.820
company where they would come and pick up the hand
1164
01:06:17.860 --> 01:06:21.289
sanitizer from our distillery and deliver it to the different
1165
01:06:21.389 --> 01:06:24.590
wards in the city. So I would say like, I'd
1166
01:06:24.710 --> 01:06:32.150
never experienced so much loving kindness of everyone coming together
1167
01:06:32.210 --> 01:06:35.369
to do whatever they could to donate their time and
1168
01:06:35.409 --> 01:06:38.039
their efforts and their money. And there were businesses that
1169
01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:40.440
donated lots of money so we could buy more of
1170
01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:43.739
the raw materials. There was a law firm, donated money
1171
01:06:43.820 --> 01:06:46.940
for this to, to, you know, be able to, um,
1172
01:06:48.340 --> 01:06:51.210
buy the raw materials to just keep making more and
1173
01:06:51.250 --> 01:06:56.829
making more and donating more. And it was really incredible.
1174
01:06:57.210 --> 01:06:59.469
And so when you ask, like looking back on all
1175
01:06:59.489 --> 01:07:02.750
of it, I'd say it was a really rough time
1176
01:07:02.769 --> 01:07:06.349
and we worked so hard, like literally around the clock
1177
01:07:06.429 --> 01:07:09.590
because it was like a life, like we had doctors from,
1178
01:07:09.610 --> 01:07:13.349
we hospitals saying that like people were bringing in vodka,
1179
01:07:13.389 --> 01:07:16.010
like that they had like, they just didn't have anything.
1180
01:07:16.570 --> 01:07:21.300
And that's not high enough proof, you know, to clean stuff,
1181
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:23.539
but they would use it on their hands. And so,
1182
01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:26.539
you know, being able to provide a service like that
1183
01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:29.579
and to help people was really, it was remarkable.
1184
01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:33.519
What do you see the next 16 years looking like
1185
01:07:33.539 --> 01:07:33.820
for y'all?
1186
01:07:34.539 --> 01:07:39.010
Well, I see them as Really? It's now a time
1187
01:07:39.090 --> 01:07:40.110
of regrouping.
1188
01:07:40.349 --> 01:07:41.650
Yeah.
1189
01:07:41.829 --> 01:07:43.809
I'm not sure if you've been like following like the
1190
01:07:43.909 --> 01:07:46.809
industry and how things have been going, but one of
1191
01:07:46.849 --> 01:07:50.670
the largest distributors in the US just went out of business.
1192
01:07:51.219 --> 01:07:51.940
Oh yeah.
1193
01:07:52.099 --> 01:07:54.039
Filing chapter 11.
1194
01:07:54.039 --> 01:07:57.099
I used to work for them. None of that, I
1195
01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.219
wouldn't say none of it's shocking considering I saw how
1196
01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:04.090
they were running business from the inside. But once I
1197
01:08:04.130 --> 01:08:06.539
got out, I was always still like, how are they
1198
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:08.969
still in business? And then they weren't. So none of it.
1199
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:11.539
Right. But I mean, this was like one of the
1200
01:08:11.579 --> 01:08:16.600
largest companies. It's like shocking on some levels because, you know,
1201
01:08:16.779 --> 01:08:19.979
it just affected so many people, so many suppliers, so
1202
01:08:20.020 --> 01:08:23.329
many people who worked for this company, so many it's
1203
01:08:23.390 --> 01:08:27.909
so in all of this happening, there's been a huge
1204
01:08:27.989 --> 01:08:31.899
effect on just the industry at large, where, A lot
1205
01:08:31.939 --> 01:08:36.500
of suppliers need to find new partners. We're among them.
1206
01:08:36.939 --> 01:08:39.520
We have to find, or we've had to find new
1207
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:43.619
partners in about eight states. I mean, it's been a
1208
01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:48.279
real journey. So, but I think in the end, what's
1209
01:08:48.350 --> 01:08:51.829
happening right now with the shakeup in the industry is
1210
01:08:52.149 --> 01:08:57.069
going to make things a lot better for craft brands
1211
01:08:57.470 --> 01:09:00.310
in the future. And so that next 16 years or
1212
01:09:00.310 --> 01:09:03.340
20 years or 30 years or whatever, I think is
1213
01:09:03.350 --> 01:09:07.500
going to really benefit from this shakeout, which is not over.
1214
01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:12.500
And the results of it are going to be a
1215
01:09:12.539 --> 01:09:17.539
real realization that the way alcohol has been distributed in
1216
01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:21.869
the past is is not going to be the way
1217
01:09:21.930 --> 01:09:25.689
it's distributed in the future. And I think there's going
1218
01:09:25.710 --> 01:09:28.270
to be a lot of innovation. I think right now
1219
01:09:28.310 --> 01:09:30.710
you're seeing sort of the changing of the guard where
1220
01:09:30.930 --> 01:09:34.640
after COVID, the big distributors, the big three went up
1221
01:09:34.699 --> 01:09:39.560
and bought all the mid-tier distributors. And, you know, we
1222
01:09:39.619 --> 01:09:43.039
see where that is. And that left very next to
1223
01:09:43.180 --> 01:09:47.149
no one in that sort of mid-tier range of distributors.
1224
01:09:47.689 --> 01:09:52.590
And slowly, slowly, these littler distributors have gotten bigger and bigger,
1225
01:09:53.029 --> 01:09:55.770
and they're going to come into their own and fill
1226
01:09:55.829 --> 01:10:00.210
that mid-tier that's necessary. And I think that's going to
1227
01:10:00.250 --> 01:10:03.630
be very exciting for brands that just are not going
1228
01:10:03.649 --> 01:10:06.609
to work well in a portfolio that has thousands of
1229
01:10:06.689 --> 01:10:09.449
brands and also a lot of very big brands that
1230
01:10:09.630 --> 01:10:14.210
require a lot of attention of these big distributors. I
1231
01:10:14.250 --> 01:10:16.649
think that you're going to see new models of distribution
1232
01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:19.060
where you're going to see a lot of beer distributors,
1233
01:10:19.100 --> 01:10:21.630
and you're already seeing that. Beer distributors are going to
1234
01:10:21.710 --> 01:10:24.789
come into the fold, just like you had wine distributors
1235
01:10:24.890 --> 01:10:28.569
coming into the fold about 10 years ago. I think
1236
01:10:28.590 --> 01:10:30.869
that you're also going to see a lot of innovative
1237
01:10:30.970 --> 01:10:34.439
ways to distribute that haven't existed in the past at all.
1238
01:10:35.460 --> 01:10:38.859
I think a great example of that is LibDib and
1239
01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:42.960
these tech solutions. where brands are able to have a
1240
01:10:43.060 --> 01:10:47.489
lot more control over the distribution themselves, and work with
1241
01:10:47.770 --> 01:10:54.250
sort of distributor like vehicles to get their products to market.
1242
01:10:54.270 --> 01:10:58.060
And it's going to be much more, you know, cost
1243
01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:02.250
beneficial for the suppliers, and it's going to you know,
1244
01:11:02.390 --> 01:11:07.770
provide a new service in the distributor realm that's also
1245
01:11:07.810 --> 01:11:12.890
going to be exciting for those that are willing to innovate. And,
1246
01:11:13.250 --> 01:11:15.550
you know, that's what I see happening. And I think
1247
01:11:15.569 --> 01:11:18.289
that that is going to have a huge effect on
1248
01:11:18.369 --> 01:11:20.369
what things are going to look like going forward. You're
1249
01:11:20.390 --> 01:11:25.170
also seeing like some states allow more self-distribution. And quite frankly,
1250
01:11:25.210 --> 01:11:29.069
I think that's going to increase over time as well. Yeah.
1251
01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:33.380
Hopefully that, you know, the self-distribution works for whoever's doing
1252
01:11:33.420 --> 01:11:37.119
it because again, distribution is a whole nother beast and
1253
01:11:37.140 --> 01:11:40.340
a whole nother headache when it comes to the, you know,
1254
01:11:40.460 --> 01:11:44.170
putting all that out there. But again, finding the bad distributors,
1255
01:11:44.229 --> 01:11:46.250
not the best thing for you either. Cause again, like
1256
01:11:46.270 --> 01:11:48.069
you said, you can very easily get lost in the
1257
01:11:48.109 --> 01:11:52.390
shuffle where you have thousands, but also when they are
1258
01:11:52.470 --> 01:11:55.949
doing or distributing the big, the huge names that are
1259
01:11:55.989 --> 01:11:58.359
in the industry because again, Yes, they want more attention,
1260
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:00.840
but they want more attention because they they bring in
1261
01:12:00.859 --> 01:12:03.800
more money. But then they also end up like buying
1262
01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.880
up all these brands and then end up just being like, OK,
1263
01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:08.840
in a few years, it didn't work what we thought
1264
01:12:08.859 --> 01:12:10.890
it was going to. But it's not that it didn't work.
1265
01:12:11.149 --> 01:12:13.319
You just didn't. It wasn't right for you. It wasn't
1266
01:12:13.359 --> 01:12:16.289
the right fit. So that's why you also saw back
1267
01:12:16.329 --> 01:12:18.449
in the day, like so many of these big beer
1268
01:12:18.489 --> 01:12:21.130
companies buy up all these little craft breweries. And then
1269
01:12:21.149 --> 01:12:23.409
they ended up letting them go because, again, they didn't
1270
01:12:23.430 --> 01:12:25.210
know what the hell they were doing with them. Not
1271
01:12:25.289 --> 01:12:27.420
everyone is Bud Light. Not everyone is Coors Light. Not
1272
01:12:27.479 --> 01:12:30.579
everybody is Jack Daniels. Not everybody is the big ones.
1273
01:12:31.220 --> 01:12:33.779
You need that mid-tier. And obviously, we are far more
1274
01:12:33.819 --> 01:12:37.000
in a craft world than we ever have been before,
1275
01:12:37.359 --> 01:12:41.149
which also challenges the big guys because they have to then, oh, crap,
1276
01:12:41.170 --> 01:12:42.770
we can't do the same thing we were doing forever.
1277
01:12:42.930 --> 01:12:46.449
We also have to try, why are these people getting
1278
01:12:46.489 --> 01:12:48.770
more popular? Why are these people doing this, that, and
1279
01:12:48.789 --> 01:12:49.010
the other?
1280
01:12:49.029 --> 01:12:55.460
Exactly. Exactly. And in addition, something that never existed before
1281
01:12:55.619 --> 01:12:59.760
is you have this like D to C opportunities. The
1282
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:04.239
direct to consumer, some of that is legal directly from
1283
01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:11.569
the supplier to consumers. But there's a whole set of
1284
01:13:11.670 --> 01:13:15.050
businesses that have grown, and this is particularly also out
1285
01:13:15.069 --> 01:13:18.750
of COVID, where they create skins. It's not really the
1286
01:13:18.789 --> 01:13:21.489
supplier that's doing it. You know, they're kind of like
1287
01:13:21.529 --> 01:13:26.430
this retailer sort of, it's also like its own thing,
1288
01:13:26.510 --> 01:13:30.949
you know, where they work legally within their own tier,
1289
01:13:31.029 --> 01:13:34.510
but they make it look like you can buy directly from,
1290
01:13:34.529 --> 01:13:38.390
you know, the suppliers and that that also gives suppliers
1291
01:13:38.470 --> 01:13:42.489
a lot more Intel onto who their consumers are. So there's,
1292
01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:48.989
there's a lot happening. that's innovative and exciting. And, you know,
1293
01:13:49.100 --> 01:13:50.579
I think that there's going to be a lot more
1294
01:13:50.619 --> 01:13:51.560
of that over time too.
1295
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:54.180
Yeah. I look forward to seeing what the future holds
1296
01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:57.260
as well, because the alcohol world is very interesting. And then,
1297
01:13:57.300 --> 01:13:59.680
you know, not to mention also what's happening with the
1298
01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:02.979
TC world as well. And so all of that very
1299
01:14:03.020 --> 01:14:05.770
much is very fascinating. And I imagine we're going to
1300
01:14:05.789 --> 01:14:08.369
start seeing more American agave be more of a thing
1301
01:14:08.430 --> 01:14:11.050
as well, because as much as we saw single malts
1302
01:14:11.090 --> 01:14:14.090
become more of an American thing. Now we're probably seeing more,
1303
01:14:14.340 --> 01:14:16.760
you know, not everybody can get stuff from Jalisco. That's just,
1304
01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:19.039
they're going to run out of room. So at some
1305
01:14:19.060 --> 01:14:21.100
point you're going to start having a more American agave,
1306
01:14:21.140 --> 01:14:22.779
which would be very interesting as well.
1307
01:14:23.260 --> 01:14:26.180
Yeah, sure. I'm, you know, I'm all for innovation and
1308
01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:32.680
all for, you know, developing things and manufacturing. I mean, honestly,
1309
01:14:32.880 --> 01:14:36.020
manufacturing is so important. It's, it's a lot of what
1310
01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:40.739
this country was built on and I love manufacturing. I
1311
01:14:40.810 --> 01:14:44.020
love it that it offers a business model that has
1312
01:14:44.180 --> 01:14:47.899
so many different kinds of jobs with different kinds of
1313
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:55.229
job qualifications that it really is broad. And it just
1314
01:14:55.529 --> 01:14:58.289
offers a lot to a community by way of jobs.
1315
01:14:58.590 --> 01:15:03.130
And also the trickle down, people shouldn't forget that every
1316
01:15:03.170 --> 01:15:07.739
time you buy something that's manufactured locally, it's over two
1317
01:15:08.340 --> 01:15:11.850
and sometimes two and a half dollars back into the
1318
01:15:11.939 --> 01:15:16.380
local economy. Not just what you're buying itself, but the
1319
01:15:16.479 --> 01:15:21.140
fact that in supporting that, you're supporting local suppliers. I mean,
1320
01:15:21.260 --> 01:15:24.119
right down, at least for us, to the farms, because
1321
01:15:24.140 --> 01:15:26.420
we can trace everything back to the actual fields on
1322
01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:30.359
which the grains were grown. So it's great to support
1323
01:15:30.399 --> 01:15:34.380
local manufacturing. It's great to you know, have craft brands
1324
01:15:34.420 --> 01:15:36.920
all over the U.S. so that when you travel, you
1325
01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:40.020
can try things that are specific to a place and
1326
01:15:40.039 --> 01:15:41.420
that adds to the adventure.
1327
01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:46.260
Exactly. Well, Sana, I love this so much. If people
1328
01:15:46.279 --> 01:15:48.100
want to find out more about you, I'll follow you online,
1329
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:51.840
obviously buy Coval or, you know, support you on any way.
1330
01:15:51.859 --> 01:15:52.420
How can they do so?
1331
01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:56.520
Well, they can come and visit us at the distillery
1332
01:15:56.880 --> 01:15:59.550
and they can find out more about that at covaldistillery.com.
1333
01:16:00.619 --> 01:16:03.600
And you're welcome to follow us on socials, also Koval Distillery.
1334
01:16:04.300 --> 01:16:07.819
And you can buy our products also off our website
1335
01:16:07.840 --> 01:16:11.100
through one of these very innovative companies that allows us
1336
01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:13.590
to do that and get products out to you because
1337
01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:16.789
it's not really us, it's them. So it makes it
1338
01:16:16.869 --> 01:16:21.789
legal and fun, but also incredibly convenient. So we hope
1339
01:16:21.850 --> 01:16:23.750
to see you at the distillery or we hope to
1340
01:16:23.810 --> 01:16:28.789
be at one of your parties or gatherings in spirit.
1341
01:16:29.329 --> 01:16:30.859
There you go. Thank you so much.
1342
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:33.119
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
1343
01:16:45.619 --> 01:16:47.609
Thank you to Dr. Sonnet for being on the show. Again,
1344
01:16:47.729 --> 01:16:50.010
if you are in the Chicago area, definitely go check
1345
01:16:50.090 --> 01:16:52.310
out COBOL. I will be doing the same in June
1346
01:16:52.350 --> 01:16:53.890
when I am up there, so I can't wait to
1347
01:16:53.909 --> 01:16:56.489
go visit them in person, but they have not only
1348
01:16:56.510 --> 01:17:00.029
done so many fantastic things with themselves, but obviously, as
1349
01:17:00.069 --> 01:17:03.970
you heard, with so many other people starting and just
1350
01:17:04.050 --> 01:17:07.880
absolutely thriving in the actual spirits world. So I thank
1351
01:17:07.899 --> 01:17:09.819
them for what they're doing, and we definitely need more
1352
01:17:09.859 --> 01:17:12.800
mom-and-pop distilling out there, so let's make this happen. So
1353
01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:15.300
while you're following them on social media, definitely go make
1354
01:17:15.319 --> 01:17:17.779
sure to follow us on social media. It is BruisersPod,
1355
01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:22.770
that is B-R-E-W-S-E-R-S-P-O-D, on the Instagram, the threads, and the Twitter.
1356
01:17:23.510 --> 01:17:24.670
If you want to send us an email, it is
1357
01:17:24.710 --> 01:17:27.170
BruisersPod at gmail.com. If you want to follow me directly,
1358
01:17:27.250 --> 01:17:31.079
it is RodyJohn. That is R-O-D-I-E-J-O-N. RodyJohn is the name
1359
01:17:31.220 --> 01:17:33.039
on the Twitter and on Untappd. In case you want
1360
01:17:33.060 --> 01:17:34.340
to find out what I'm drinking, maybe we can have
1361
01:17:34.380 --> 01:17:35.770
a beer together. If you want to follow me on
1362
01:17:35.779 --> 01:17:38.609
the threads or the Instagram, it is OfficialRodyJohn. So until
1363
01:17:38.649 --> 01:17:40.970
next time, make sure to enjoy life, drink local, and cheers.