WEBVTT
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This is Breaking the Stigma, a podcast from Dumfries and Galloway ADP.
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If drugs or alcohol have affected you, your family, your work, or your community, this podcast is here to help.
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Each episode covers a different part of the picture, from people's rights and family support to recovery and more.
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These conversations are designed to inform, support, and connect people to their right help.
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Welcome to this episode of Breaking the Stigma.
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My name's Rod Anderson.
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I work for Recovery Coaching Scotland.
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I'm originally from Strunra.
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And I'm here with my friend and colleague Denise, who is also from Strunra.
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Just say hi, Denise.
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Hi.
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And we're we're here for Recovery Month.
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So many of you will know that September is recovery month.
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And we're here just to have a bit of a discussion around our recovery journeys.
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And we thought this would make an interesting podcast because I've been in recovery for what we would normally call a long-term recovery.
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So I've been in recovery for nearly 13 years.
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And Denise is a bit newer in recovery, I think.
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It's fair to say, Denise.
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Yeah, just over a year now.
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So just over a year.
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So what what we'd like to talk about during this podcast is maybe different perspectives on recovery from somebody who's just setting off on their journey and somebody who's a bit of an old timer in some ways and has been around the recovery world for for quite a bit of time.
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So we've got a rough set of questions we're going to chat through, but we'll see, we'll see where we go with it.
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So I'm just going to kick off asking you, Denise.
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So before you were in recovery, what did you think of recovery?
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What did it mean to you at that point before you experienced it?
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To me, it didn't mean much, I suppose.
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Early on, say it was like, right, if I look at recovery, it was almost like, right, well, when will I be recovered?
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But every time the question was asked, there wasn't a date, there wasn't any time.
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I'm like, right, so I'm just to read a textbook, I'm just to get answers from a textbook.
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Like just really pretty much a skeptic on the whole thing until I had my psychosis in October, and then realised that I had to do something.
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So I decided to get myself referred to Scottish Drugs and Alcohol Service.
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And now recovery for me looks like pretty much risk-assessing your life on a on a daily basis, getting up every morning and risk-assessing yourself, your environment, the people that you're around, um, especially early days, yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, I I suppose, you know, thinking back to my early days, like now I've got a bit of perspective on it.
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Like I was a little bit like a rabbit in the headlights in the early days of my recovery.
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And quite a lot of the time I didn't really understand what was going on with me or anybody else.
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And I I remember how brightening and frustrating that was at the time.
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And I suppose, but before I actually was in recovery, like a lot of people, like I had loads and loads of attempts to try and stop drinking.
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Like it wasn't a linear journey.
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I was stopped for a while and I was star again, and I was uh quite chaotic around that.
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But in terms of like for me, before before I'd experienced what recovery was, I just didn't have a clue what it was.
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I I thought, like for me, you just stopped drinking, that would be it, and and it would be easy.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Is that something you can kind of relate to?
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I bet like so when when I attended my first appointment, they gave me a tablet they called disulfum.
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And I remember thinking, right, that's gonna cure my problem.
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Because the last time I had a drink, I would put myself in hospital.
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So this'll stop me.
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This'll stop me.
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And that was fine, that was fine for almost a year, but it wasn't it it's constant.
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You're already for like an isolated place almost, and it's gone into another place of isolation and a place of unknown and a place of uncertainty.
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And I I don't think I've ever been so scared in all my life, and I thought I knew it all.
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I thought I knew it all.
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Yeah.
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Just tell me more about that, about you thought you knew it all.
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That's really interesting, comment.
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I thought I knew it had the interest to everything.
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So I remember getting handed.
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My um my substances were cocaine and alcohol, mainly cocaine, um, alcohol kind of stained for that.
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And then when I I felt that I couldn't take cocaine, it m it then became alcohol.
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Picking away at that a little bit and the frightening bit is something that's interesting for me.
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Like, is what what frightened you about it at early doors in the early part of your journey?
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Facing daily life sober.
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Right.
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Completely sober facing situations, uh maybe health situations, social situations, uh anything at all, facing it sober, because realistically, from the age of 19, I couldn't tell you probably a week that went by that I hadn't used something.
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Yeah.
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So face life sober, aye.
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Yeah.
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And I remember thinking that, thinking, like alcohol for me had been such a big part of my life, just like you were describing there.
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Like, ever since I was about that age or younger, like I drank all a lot.
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And uh like the early part of my recovery when I stopped drinking, I was quite euphoric.
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You know, I thought this life's amazing, you know, this is this is great.
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And then I suppose, you know, looking back on that now, you know, I was completely bonkers at that point.
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You know, I was I was quite unhinged.
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And uh I suppose now I've got a bit I'm not saying you're unhinged, by the way.
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But uh but looking back on it now, I could see like how chaotic I was, even though I was sober.
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Um but I remember being like once the euphoria had worn off of being newly minted as as a sober person, like it was quite a daunting thought about never having a drink again, because I knew that I knew I couldn't, you know, and um but I I didn't try I I learned through through going to meetings and meeting other people just to keep it in the day, you know, just to worry about today and tomorrow's going to take care of itself.
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And it um and that I live my life like that for ages around you know just being sober today and a day becomes a week and a week becomes longer, and that becomes much more manageable.
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And I suppose like now I'm now I'm a bit further into my journey.
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Like I don't need to live my life like that anymore.
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And it's like it's quite a relief to be able to think, think more than a day ahead.
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You know what I mean?
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Yes, absolutely.
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Um and I can only wait for the day that I can actually actually say that.
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The rest days recently, I must admit, somewhat I was a year in June, July, August, September, so a year and three months in, and only just over the summer holidays did it hit that I can actually be a parent full time to my children, sober and able to cope and know things about drugs and alcohol on a daily basis.
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Like there was days I noticed that I went, Oh, although I'm struggling.
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I actually just really wanted a cup of tea.
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It's a cup of something so similar an energy drink or just something, I don't know, just I something other than drugs and alcohol, and it was nice.
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For the first time I can honestly say that was actually it's not even nice, it's it's more of a relief to breathe a wee bit.
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That's just what I yeah.
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That's just what I was gonna say.
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It's that's a relief.
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It's like I don't need to do that anymore.
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And like for me that was a bit of a light bulb moment when you when you realised actually that it didn't have that hold over you so much.
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And like I suppose the diff my perspective on it, like ten years plus in is that it still has a little bit of a hold on me.
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I still think about it occasionally, but it certainly is tiny compared to where it was where I was where you are.
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But it was cropping up in my thinking, you know, quite a lot of the time.
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And you had to put a lot more effort into it um into staying sober than probably than I have to do now.
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Yeah, recovery changes as you go through uh the years.
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Uh I'm not saying that I I don't have to do anything, you know.
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I do have to do things, but I'm blessed in the the work that I do is that I'm talking about recovery and addiction and recovery and um all of that stuff every day, and that's what kind of keeps me on the straight and narrow, as it were, which is helpful.
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It is absolutely like I I compare probably last summer to this summer, and I'll keep referring back to summer because it is a big deal.
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It's definitely a time in my life where I would go out and party, I would absolutely be drunk or when they go home, it would be days and end, it would be whether there was children here or not, children here, um it would it would just be like you say, chaotic.
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And then I I I realised that I I was watching my neighbours over the back garden the other night.
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They were having a drink in their caravan, and it was like, I nearly, I nearly went, oh.
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And then and then I just I was like, oh, they're gonna be so hungover the next day, and then I went to my bed and put a film on, and again, a relief, a relief to be like this normal person that that we're kind of I don't know, trying to become thought the right thing, I don't know.
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I do I like I don't know if any of us are normal.
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Like I think it's overrated, but I think what what maybe like for me it's around you know, having a bit of peace of mind and knowing that I don't have to live my life that way, and like looking at what other people's behaviour that you're just referring to there and thinking, yeah, that's that's fine for them if they want to do that, but that's that's not my thing anymore.
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And I think society plays a big part in that in terms of the way that we're trained to think and the way that society accepts kind of drugs and alcohol now as being the norm.
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Certainly alcohol, more so uh cocaine.
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I think it's very socially acceptable now.
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Yeah.
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And um it's interesting.
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It's interesting that you know we're not opting into that anymore.
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No.
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It's a re it is definitely a relief.
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It's one aspect that I've not been well, I had a relapse in June this year and I had one drink.
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Well, I thought I could have two drinks, but um we all know that kind of happened.
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Uh and it ended up we took it uh starting off regular ending in tequila, and me ended up in hospital.
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But I was I just I can't even remember where I was gone with that road, but what I wanted to ask you was actually in the early days of your recovery, what did you do as hobbies?
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Like to fill your time that these those early days, because I really did think that was the hardest for me.
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Yeah, uh absolutely and and uh like boredom and having stuff to do um w was a big challenge for me.
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And um what what I did, I mean I had numerous goals, like I was saying before, uh uh getting into recovery.
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And th through all those attempts, right, at getting into recovery, I learned something every time.
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And what I learned was that if I was gonna stay sober, I had to put a lot more effort into it.
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Um it wasn't just about stopping drinking, um, which is what I thought it was to start with.
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Um that if I was gonna stay sober, I would have to do a lot of things, um, and I'd have to completely change my life around.
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And and so I kind of embarked on that journey of thinking what could be different in my life, and that kind of occupied most of my time.
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So what I actually did was I was being supported by um uh a drugs and alcohol charity called Ad Action, which is now called We Are With You um or With You.
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And um I had a brilliant support worker there, um, who's now a friend of mine.
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And um I I I popped in and I asked, look, um I wasn't was no longer a client there uh because I had been discharged because I've been sober for quite a while.
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I said, uh I would quite like to volunteer.
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Um and they said, I absolutely come on in and um I g I got a a role as a volunteer within Ad Action and for me instantly that gave me some purpose and it gave me something to do.
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I knew I couldn't go back to doing the kind of work that I used to do because there was a a drinking environment in my employment, which I knew I couldn't go back there because I tried that and failed numerous times, um spectacularly usually.
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And um so I started volunteering and with that came, like I said, a sense of purpose, um, and actually quite quickly um one day became two days and two days became three days, and eventually um I remember one of the guys who worked there saying to me, like, do you work here now?
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And I'm like, Well, I don't really know, but I come here like three days a week and I love it.
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And and I was just doing things like making people cups of tea.
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Um I kind of worked up to answering the phone.
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I was super nervous about it.
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I was so anxious as a person then I can barely recognise um who I was because I was just full of anxiety, I was terrified of answering the phone, answering the door.
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But I got used to those things.
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I kind of pushed through my comfort zone a wee bit and started doing stuff like that.
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And eventually, I think because I was persistent, the service manager offered me a sessional post.
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Um, and I got I actually got a job there just through turning up a lot.
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Um and and with with that whole journey around using my lived experience to help other people, that's what certainly occupied my time, which was your original question, but actually I did a whole lot more than that because it gave me um it helped me make sense of what had happened to me.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah.
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By creating something positive out of what had been a really terrible experience for me and for my family.
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You know, w when I was um through my drinking, I lost um a lot of things like most people do.
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I lost my employment, my family situation became really difficult.
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And and I wanted to get all of that back, and I realized that this would help me to do that by proving that I that that I could do something else.
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Um and I did.
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And it's been quite the journey ever since.
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But that's that's really where it started off for me, was just answering the phone.
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Absolutely.
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I can totally relate that I think for me coming in the course and me um the recovery course that we did.
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I never, ever, ever felt before then that I would had somewhere, I don't know, well safe to share.
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We always say safe to share, but just a wee a wee team of people, which was a great wee team of people, all sorts of characters and different backgrounds, and I learned so so much about other people, but I learned so so much about myself and relating to your anxiety.
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I remember you saying to me that you thought the anxiety was creeping out my collar on the first day that was there.
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And I remember feeling it, and I remember I remember doing the presentation, I remember feeling it then.
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Um in fact, I remember feeling it every single day I turned up, but to sit in and say that I completed it, that was a really big deal for me.
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It was a big deal for me, and it was a big deal for my family, and proving to them that I could commit to something, because commitment was always a big thing for me.
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I remember saying to Kevin at Smart Recovery, um, who was my coach, he said commitment, he said he said that he said that I could, and this would be like basically the chance for me to commit to something and to prove to myself that I can be that person again and I can redefine myself and I can make a starting point, and that's what I did too.
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Um and actually I'm just staring at my uh smart recovery, uh, my scores and stuff about redefining myself, empowered and contributing and values and beliefs.
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And I've actually I'm just gonna touch on that just because it's kind of comes off what you've just said there.
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Um I'm still redefining myself, I'm travelling a lot now and meeting and making new connections, which is a big deal to me, because I I there would have been a time where I wouldn't even have got on a bus myself without my gran or my mum or somebody, just somebody.
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Um but now I take the kids all over the place.
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I go to I come down to gather shoes and I bet you guys, and then feeling empowered and contributing my recovery to my passion, and I feel empowered by the course that we did do, and that's allowing me, I feel to then go forward and and loads of doors you open for me since I met you.
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And I think for somebody who was in my position and still is in my position, if you like, because it's still really, really super early on, and I get that, but the passion to contribute back to the community to to bring something that wasn't here when I needed it.
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Um because if it wasn't for Kevin registering me on that course through A-Stas, I would never have known about you, I would have never known about borders, bordering recovery, I would never have known about it.
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Um there should be.
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I and that that brings me to my values in belief and recovery to my passion.
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Like on the back of what you said, I don't know where I'd be without it now.
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It pretty much is a full-time job.
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Yeah, and that's such a good point.
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And I think um I think a lot of people maybe who are listening to this podcast who aren't in recovery or just maybe interested in it, don't realise that you know being in early recovery is is a big job.
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You know, it takes everything that you've got um to be successful at it, and you've got to really throw everything at it.
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And and it just it just takes over your life.
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But but when you have that attitude to it, like this is my job now and this is what I'm gonna do, then you can make a real success of it.
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Absolutely.
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And I think if like me, I'm a single mum, I've got three kids, and I've got a part-time job that I absolutely love.
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I don't have a big circle, I keep my circle very, very small now.
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Um it that that means a lot to me.
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I need to be able to trust, I need to be able to have people around me that can support me on my good and bad days.
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Yeah, I mean the people, the people thing that you're just referring to, like people in connection and people that you can get like a sense of hope from think is um like it was massively important for me in the early part of my recovery, and like being introduced to people who are one, two, three, four, ten years in recovery, like for me was alright, okay, this is a whole new world for me.
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Like I and I didn't know any of this existed or these people existed, or this was a thing.
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Yeah, you know, and it it it kind of opened my eyes, and particularly I remember like going um so I live now in a wee rural village in the borders, and um I remember going up to Edinburgh to go at the Serenity Cafe, which is sadly closed now, but it was Scotland's first recovery cafe.
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And I'd never been to a recovery cafe before, I didn't know what to expect, and but I knew like we didn't have any like that in the borders or or there was very little in Dumfries and Galloway as well.
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And I I went up there and met all these people in recovery who were doing amazing things.
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You know, there were people who were working in the cafe, there were people delivering courses, there was cocaine anonymous meetings, there was women's support meetings, all kinds of things going on there, and I thought, wow, it's unbelievable.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:08.640
Yeah, you know, and it like and that's for me, that's where like a lot of my connections have come from, and a lot of the hope that I needed right at that time, that's where it came from in spades was just people saying, Well, you could try this or that.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:14.160
And I'm really lucky that um I'm still connected to some of those people who helped me.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:25.279
Um the impact the girls in uh the ladies' empowerment group um in Gala Shields, um, and I don't go into the group often, there's loads of members to the group.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.880
The girls are absolutely phenomenal out of this world.
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.079
Um, and if you ever get the chance to go, I would go.
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.759
And I I hope that one day we'll have something that got here.
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:44.720
But just stepping in and out of conversation, knowing that they've got your back, knowing that you're no judge, knowing I don't know, it's just a whole new group of people.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.920
It's just it's refreshing, it's it's crazy.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.279
It's crazy.
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:52.640
But it but it it's inspiring.
00:20:52.799 --> 00:21:00.160
It really is inspiring being around people that it gets such drive through such devastation.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:08.880
I thought, right, there's a lot of people that's just came through some eye, but they've taken such drive and passions from it, and it's their life now.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:10.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:16.640
I absolutely and I think that that's something that all of us can do, particularly.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:22.000
You know, what when folks are in early George Recovery and they're thinking about what can I what can I do with my life now?
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:47.200
I mean, that's that's why, and I absolutely love delivering narrow training courses that we deliver because you get to meet people like you who are like, I remember when you came in to the course the first day, um, and it's not unusual like for somebody to come in and they are super, super anxious, you can tell they really just want a bolt and go right out that door, they've just walked through and think this was a really bad idea, what am I doing here?
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:54.960
Um and to see like the change in you over over that um five, six days was just it was was unbelievable.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.480
You had to see it to believe it.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.440
Somebody who really didn't want to be there and by the end of it.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.480
Helping other people getting up and sharing, talking about your own experiences.
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:05.759
It's absolutely brilliant.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.440
That's why we do what we do.
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:08.160
Thank you.
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.039
Just even the confidence that came for that road.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.400
And I've I've never forgot it.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.119
There's days, there's good days and bad days in recovery.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:16.000
Absolutely.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:23.039
Um I have more good days now than I do bad, but on the bad days, I think back to that time and think, right, okay, that's fine.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:24.240
It's just a bad day.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:35.839
Remember where you were then, remember the lassie that walked through the door at that time and just you know, and some days I don't feel like I've come on that far, but other days I'm like, oh my god, I am smashing it.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:49.759
And it's jumping back to the we support groups and um the people that I've met through this, and even just on a on a phone call to yourself um and other people that I've met just can pick you up just like that podcast that guess.
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.319
What about it started on the first of September?
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.920
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:04.640
And like what we're doing through all of that is we're building up our recovery capital, you know, we're building up our our social connections that's part of our recovery capital.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:15.440
The more people we've got in our lives and that are on a similar journey and uh that that can help us or we can help them, then you know, the easier it is for us uh to stay well.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:28.000
There's a lot of research around that, around um actually reaching a hand out to other people um just helps us feel better about ourselves and it helps us um have a more successful recovery.
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:28.480
Mm-hmm.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.279
Absolutely.
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:30.480
Very flirty.
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:36.400
So there's one thing I was wanting to ask you is like, so far, what's the stuff nobody told you about?
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:40.400
Where's the where's the kind of what's caught you off guard?
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:46.000
Nobody tells you about zero identity.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:50.240
Um nobody tells you how can I word this?
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:57.519
When I mean it like zero identity, like I before I went on the course, I had no clue what I was entering.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.319
I'd uh the unknown was absolutely the worst feeling for me.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:16.160
A lost night sleep over at the night before the course was awful, anxious, and it was reliving like traumas and like no, I'm not gonna go, I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna put it off, I'm gonna self-sabotage.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:23.519
But what it I think the phrase I was looking for is I was handed a new blank call this to start my life again.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:33.119
So for me it was hello, my name's Denise, I'm 38, I'm a single mum with three kids, and I'm here to start my life again, and that that's it.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:40.640
That's it, and I know I can explain it any other than I didn't know who I I got to the point of not knowing who I was.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:48.240
I could not identify as anyone that I could even recognise, and and I think that's the biggest deal.
00:24:48.400 --> 00:25:01.680
I definitely slowly getting there, and I've got a lot of hard work, and it's and it is constant hard work every day, there's no recovery date, there's no magic tablet that and people might want to try and sell you that.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:15.759
Or what I will say though is no, I'll take that back a wee bit, is because medication is important along with your own recovery journey, and that's probably another wee valid thing I remember Kevin telling me your medication is important.
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:31.200
So if there is something you think that's underlying, I think it's definitely worth delving into and worth finding the answers for yourself, absolutely, however that may be, because I definitely find comfort in that and realising what my makeup is and why I'm like this.
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:35.119
So I that's probably the biggest bit of it, yeah.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.720
I love the way you put that.
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:44.799
You know, there's two two really important points in there, and the blank canvas or loss of identity or not understanding what your identity is going to be now.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.279
Um I think like I really relate to that.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:59.359
And um somebody taught that to me because I was really struggling with you know the loss of my employment, the loss of my my sort of internal thinking around who am I.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:11.039
Like before before I knew kind really who I was, even though I was an addict and I was dependent on alcohol, I knew who it was, I had managed to hold a job down, provide for my family, and I c and I'd lost all of that.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:11.279
Yeah.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:16.079
And and with it, all my self-esteem had gone along with it, what little I had left.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:16.400
Yeah.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:24.720
And somebody taught that to me around the blank canvas, and and it's a brilliant approach to your recovery of thinking.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:30.400
How many people get the opportunity to hit the pause button on their life, right?
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:37.279
And go, right, I'm gonna stop doing all of these things and and stop being maybe that person.
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:39.680
I'm gonna try and be a slightly different person.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:50.720
And I'm I'm gonna take this blank sheet of canvas, I'm gonna put what I want to to have on it, rather than what other people have kind of made me have on it over over my previous life.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:58.799
And that's kinda my journey was like you know, when you're younger and you get the job that your parents want you to get, or whatever.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:00.640
I mean, that's my my lived experience.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:09.279
So you go and you get that job and you do that thing, and you didn't really want the job, and you weren't really suited for it, but actually you could do it, and it was quite well paid.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:10.480
That's my journey.
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:16.079
And and I but in order to be successful at that job, I had to pretend to be somebody else.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:22.720
And uh and that's that person had to drink a lot to be able to cope with with that lifestyle.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:28.559
So so for me it's like I'm gonna stop doing that now, but I have no clue what I'm gonna do.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:42.240
And but I'm just gonna try some things until I until I settle into something that I can maybe that that gives me some joy, you know, and uh I've I've managed to find it and working it working in the recovery field.
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:42.640
Yeah.
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:44.960
And uh so yeah.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.440
No, I share that passion with me, Rhode.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:48.079
I really do.
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:54.880
Um if there's anything that I I I mean, I used to be a dental nurse, it's so I can see with the employment and the job.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.799
I was a dental nurse for 18 years.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:58.559
And I I never felt right.
00:27:58.799 --> 00:27:59.680
Never felt right.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.160
Although I was great at it, I was a great nurse.
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.240
And I just never felt right.
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:10.880
And I remember sitting Christmas Eve drinking with everybody, I'd always be the drunkest, you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:18.799
To then sit at 38 and say about the blank canvas and I'll get to know like you say, to the life I enjoy.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.680
So there's a sheet of paper and I just keep adding to it whenever I feel like it.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:28.880
And really life's not that bad right now, and I hope it stays that way.
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:30.559
Yeah.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:42.559
Yeah, well it will, because you know, you're all gonna put things on that bit of paper that that are things that that are gonna be nice, that you're gonna enjoy, that are gonna bring you joy and motivation for your recovery.
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.440
And um and that that's certainly my experience.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:51.200
And also, I mean, not that it's a total plain sailing recovery either.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:29:01.200
You know, it's not I think a lot of people think when they come into recovery, you know, I remember thinking, right, my life's just gonna be a lot easier now because I'm not doing all this stupid stuff.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:08.480
And like, you know, you've just got as many challenges as everybody else around your life and uh that that life throws at you.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:20.720
And and for I suppose for me like y a lot of your coping strategies of because your previous coping strategies around for me using alcohol's gone now, so you have to learn new ones, don't you?
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:21.279
Yeah.
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:24.160
And you have to learn to manage your emotions.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:24.960
Yeah.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:35.759
I think for me that's one thing I didn't really understand about recovery in the early stages is that all of my emotions would arrive back in my head.
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.519
Um and they don't they don't all arrive in like an orderly fashion.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:39.759
No.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.200
They all arrive in a great big jumble of messed upness.
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.200
And and like nobody warned me about that.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:30:07.519
Uh like it's really challenging because suddenly you've gone through all these years of numbing your emotions, and then all of a sudden you think like you feel everything, and like you cry everywhere I cried everything, you know, as crying at East Enders, you name it as crying, and uh getting angry at stupid things, and it's just it's just that was bonkers.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:20.240
Um and I think yeah, we tr we try and like help people with that, teach people coping strategies, help them to understand their emotions, and yeah, but it's quite challenging, isn't it?
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:26.319
Uh uh absolutely I I think I've got a shorter, definitely got a shorter temper, sober.
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:28.559
Definitely realize that myself.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:40.640
Um I remember that's definitely that funny, but I remember being called fun mum, because fun mum and she was drinking did loads of fun, crazy things, like water slides, all that.
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:41.920
You know the stuff.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.799
And now mum's really sensible.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.720
So I've got to cope with that and uh it's like ruining my street cred.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.400
Yeah, well, it's better to be a little bit boring.
00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:06.880
I am a little bit boring now, I'm no fun mum, but actually you came up at least I'm present, and I think that's the biggest thing for me is being present in my kids' life now that I you're present, you're present in life.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.319
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:14.079
And I think that's for me too, is is like being present for your loved ones.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.920
And I I mean it's just a totally different way of being.
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:28.160
And I suppose like as you go through recovery, one thing I've really struggled with is kind of guilt and shame, particularly around uh my children.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.160
My children are adults now.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:39.039
And I have struggled and continue to struggle with like my own emotions around what kind of dad was I really.
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:43.839
And that that's my internal thinking, you know, is and I I struggle with that all the time.
00:31:44.240 --> 00:32:03.920
Um and um I think we all have to find our own way through those thought processes because they can be they can be really quite corrosive to to our well-being, you know, when you when you beat yourself up around things that you know when you sometimes you'll see a photograph or a memory comes up on Facebook or whatever and you think, look at this state of me.
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.240
Like that happens to me quite a lot.
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.759
And I think, wow.
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:11.039
And it and it does sort of figure you into way of thinking.
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:15.920
Oh, god, you know, not a great dad.
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:27.279
But then I've tried to kind of reframe that thinking a little bit around the fact that I was just trying to do my best in in difficult circumstances with a terrible drinking problem.
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:27.599
Yeah.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.640
You know, I mean have some compassion for myself.
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.839
I used to let that eat me up, the guilt and the shame every single night, and even up until recently.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:42.480
But no, um and it was because I could see so my kids are 15, 9, and 5.
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:46.240
I could see the different parenting uh types.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.079
I was, does that make sense?
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.799
So here's Roby, he's went through, he's just got six A's and a B.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.880
He just passed his exams, right?
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.799
So he's doing amazing.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:05.440
Um, and I see where I was present and not present in his life, but thankfully his milestones I don't think were affected that much.
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:11.680
And then I've got my middle child where his milestones were being affected because of my drugs and alcohol.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:16.079
Augustine being in his life and being present and being where I needed to be.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:23.519
His dad was away working in the lorries, but he's unknown to all that because I'm trying to keep things and keep things afloat.
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.319
Um, and then my Roman, and my youngest one, he was kind of smack bang in the middle.
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:31.440
He's now sex, I split up with his dad six years ago.
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:41.920
So he's been really in the in the midst of it, and you see the different types of parenting, but I've closed the door in that, and the reason why I've closed the door in that is because they're thriving now.
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:54.799
They're absolutely thriving now, and and my honesty in doing this, doing the recovery course, and going different places and meeting different people through recovery, and and I can show them pictures.
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:59.759
I'm like, oh look, where are like you know, and I've got all that to share with them, so I they're thriving.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:00.880
So what's the point?
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:12.079
I can't change what I've done before, but if any if anything it's taught Robbie not to drink irritate drugs, I'm hoping that's the same for Reggie and Roman.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:14.559
Fingers crossed.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:17.280
That's such a lovely way of putting it, Denise.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:26.800
You know, around closing the door on that that shame and guilt because actually you you've done the best you can in those times and now and now they're thriving.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:30.079
Yep, they're still here, they're healthy, they're thriving.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.000
And I that's all you can do.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:42.480
You can keep reliving it if you want, but you can't your your kids are a reflection of yourself, and there's bits that you will see that you won't want to see, but you need to face them.
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:51.599
You need to face you don't, and if you get asked the questions at whatever age they're you answer them honestly, and if they don't understand you, that's fine, they will one day.
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:52.320
That's true.
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.079
That's different ages for my kids, definitely.
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:00.800
Yeah, and I think as I think as a parent in recovery, you'd learn to be patient.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:11.840
You know, uh that's one thing I've learned is to be patient around you know, having those conversations that you won't have, but um, you might feel ready for them, but but uh they might not be.
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.440
No, your children might not be.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:22.400
So you have to be patient around actually when when the time's right, you can have those conversations and um also what conversations are you having?
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.440
Is it is it for their benefit or is it for your own benefit?
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:30.480
And if it's just for your own, maybe you just need to suck it up and uh get on with it.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:32.639
That's that's my internal dialogue anyway.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:48.000
But definitely dealing with a teenager for the age of it was twelve until now, and my important things like exams I've learned just to be he'll come to me, just let it be.
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:54.639
Don't don't be in a new room apologizing and trying to justify there's there are no lessoning to that.
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:07.679
Yeah, yeah, and that's that's a lovely point to m to move on because um I was kind of thinking, you know, what's the plan now?
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:11.039
So what what things are you working on on your recovery?
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.719
What what's what's next for you?
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:18.559
So what's next for me is that I need to get back in touch with my smart recovery coach.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:25.440
Um over the summer I was really busy with the kids, um, so I feel like I need to touch base with them, see what's happening there.
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:47.360
Also hoping to complete my smart recovery training and be able to run meetings that you hold in Gallery Shields and likewise for here, first and our getting involved in as much as I can get involved in that my kids will allow me to, and their schedules will allow me to.
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:50.480
But I'm pretty I'm pretty excited about the future.
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:56.960
I think now that we're over the first half of the year, I've kind of got a a new kind of spring in my step.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:03.119
Um and then on the 20th, obviously, we've got uh do you want to explain about that?
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:04.480
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:17.920
So on the 20th of September, um we've got uh South of Scotland Recovery Festival, um, which is going to be open to anybody from Dumfries and Galloway, uh, from the Scottish Borders um and areas roundabout.
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:22.079
Um it's across in Gallashiels, um where our offices are.
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:26.400
Um but we've got free buses running from Strenard, Dumfries and Anna.
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:37.199
Um so um, if you have a little look um at our Facebook page, uh Borders in Recovery, um you can see uh some more information on there about coming along.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.239
Spoon be a lovely day out on a Sunday.
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:46.239
Um we've got some live music, we've got food, uh, we've got a bouncy castle and entertainment for the little people.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.960
Um we've got smart recovery meetings, and we're gonna have all kinds of things going on that day.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:52.239
Yeah, so well worth it.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.119
Well, it's a bit of a trip to Galler Shields, but well worth it.
00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:56.960
But uh it's definitely well worth it.
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:01.119
I promise everybody that they won't be disappointed, that's for sure.
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:03.920
That's good, that's good.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:05.760
Just finally rounding up.
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:18.800
Denise, um what would you say to somebody who's who's listening to this, who's still using substances, who's still drinking maybe, um, who don't know what to do, um what would you say to them?
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:20.400
How would you give them some hope?
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:22.239
Just join one group.
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:29.119
And whether that's picking up the phone or getting referred or some, just join a group.
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:33.760
Join join something that that that might just tick an interest.
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.639
You will never know who you will meet on that journey.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.000
And I couldn't stress it enough, and you'll know when you're ready.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:46.880
You'll absolutely know when you're ready, and there's no right or wrong time, just join a group, definitely.
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:57.760
Yeah, it's it's good advice, and uh, you know, most people listening um will be thinking, yeah, I'm too I'm too anxious to go to a group, or I I'm too I'm too embarrassed to ask for help.
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.519
Or I mean that's what I was like, you know, I was too embarrassed to ask for help.
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.599
Um I I wouldn't go to a group.
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:10.159
Um and eventually when I hit real rock bottom, um I I had no choice but to do that.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:15.199
And it's the best thing I ever did was to stick my hand up and go, could somebody help me?
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:15.519
Yeah.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.679
Um and I found actually uh there's plenty of help there.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:25.039
And there's there are plenty of people who who will who would help you if you're willing to engage in it, you know.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:26.320
Absolutely.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:30.719
Um and from my perspective, um firstly I reached out to we are with you.
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:37.360
It was an online chat forum, um, and I had a conversation that then led to a referral.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.440
So that was me trying to do it my own way before my psychosis.
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:48.639
Um obviously I was involved with the services when uh when my health deteriorated in October, so that was a different scenario.
00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:52.159
But to reach out, um, there's also Samaritans.
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:57.039
I did phone them one time, um, but I didn't speak to anybody, I just let them in the line.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:59.360
Um just to hear a voice.
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:08.800
Um, I've also dealt with um the crisis team as well, um, which I must admit, Fred and Fleet and Galloway were absolutely phenomenal with me.
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:16.000
Um the people on the end of that phone, picking up that phone at whatever time, and I ain't ready just to hear you, whatever.
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:26.239
I can't I can't express enough how great some of them females were on the phone with me during during all my times that I had to use them.
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:28.559
Yeah, that's that's brilliant.
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:32.559
And I think that's that is such a positive uh way to wrap this up, Denise.
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:43.519
And um, I just want to thank you for coming and having this this conversation and for your honesty and and frankness and sharing uh bits about your recovery with us.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.400
And uh it's been it's been a great discussion.
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:57.679
And if anybody is there listening, um, you know, as Denise says, uh you can reach out to with you um online or on the phone, um, and there is plenty of support out there.
00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:58.480
Thank you.
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:02.800
Thanks for listening to Breaking the Stigma from Dumfries and Galloway, ADP.
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.440
For support and information, visit dgadp.co.uk.
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:08.719
Take care.
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:05.280
This is Breaking the Stigma, a podcast from Dumfries and Galloway ADP.
00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:12.560
If drugs or alcohol have affected you, your family, your work, or your community, this podcast is here to help.
00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:18.960
Each episode covers a different part of the picture, from people's rights and family support to recovery and more.
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These conversations are designed to inform, support, and connect people to their right help.
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:28.879
Welcome to this episode of Breaking the Stigma.
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My name's Rod Anderson.
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.359
I work for Recovery Coaching Scotland.
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I'm originally from Strunra.
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And I'm here with my friend and colleague Denise, who is also from Strunra.
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Just say hi, Denise.
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Hi.
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And we're we're here for Recovery Month.
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So many of you will know that September is recovery month.
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And we're here just to have a bit of a discussion around our recovery journeys.
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And we thought this would make an interesting podcast because I've been in recovery for what we would normally call a long-term recovery.
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.959
So I've been in recovery for nearly 13 years.
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And Denise is a bit newer in recovery, I think.
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It's fair to say, Denise.
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Yeah, just over a year now.
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So just over a year.
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So what what we'd like to talk about during this podcast is maybe different perspectives on recovery from somebody who's just setting off on their journey and somebody who's a bit of an old timer in some ways and has been around the recovery world for for quite a bit of time.
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So we've got a rough set of questions we're going to chat through, but we'll see, we'll see where we go with it.
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So I'm just going to kick off asking you, Denise.
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So before you were in recovery, what did you think of recovery?
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What did it mean to you at that point before you experienced it?
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To me, it didn't mean much, I suppose.
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Early on, say it was like, right, if I look at recovery, it was almost like, right, well, when will I be recovered?
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But every time the question was asked, there wasn't a date, there wasn't any time.
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I'm like, right, so I'm just to read a textbook, I'm just to get answers from a textbook.
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:19.039
Like just really pretty much a skeptic on the whole thing until I had my psychosis in October, and then realised that I had to do something.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:25.599
So I decided to get myself referred to Scottish Drugs and Alcohol Service.
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:40.639
And now recovery for me looks like pretty much risk-assessing your life on a on a daily basis, getting up every morning and risk-assessing yourself, your environment, the people that you're around, um, especially early days, yeah.
00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:41.840
Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, I I suppose, you know, thinking back to my early days, like now I've got a bit of perspective on it.
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Like I was a little bit like a rabbit in the headlights in the early days of my recovery.
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And quite a lot of the time I didn't really understand what was going on with me or anybody else.
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And I I remember how brightening and frustrating that was at the time.
00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:13.280
And I suppose, but before I actually was in recovery, like a lot of people, like I had loads and loads of attempts to try and stop drinking.
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Like it wasn't a linear journey.
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I was stopped for a while and I was star again, and I was uh quite chaotic around that.
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But in terms of like for me, before before I'd experienced what recovery was, I just didn't have a clue what it was.
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I I thought, like for me, you just stopped drinking, that would be it, and and it would be easy.
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:33.120
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Is that something you can kind of relate to?
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:42.240
I bet like so when when I attended my first appointment, they gave me a tablet they called disulfum.
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And I remember thinking, right, that's gonna cure my problem.
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Because the last time I had a drink, I would put myself in hospital.
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So this'll stop me.
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This'll stop me.
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And that was fine, that was fine for almost a year, but it wasn't it it's constant.
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You're already for like an isolated place almost, and it's gone into another place of isolation and a place of unknown and a place of uncertainty.
00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:11.759
And I I don't think I've ever been so scared in all my life, and I thought I knew it all.
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I thought I knew it all.
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:13.759
Yeah.
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Just tell me more about that, about you thought you knew it all.
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That's really interesting, comment.
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I thought I knew it had the interest to everything.
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So I remember getting handed.
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My um my substances were cocaine and alcohol, mainly cocaine, um, alcohol kind of stained for that.
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And then when I I felt that I couldn't take cocaine, it m it then became alcohol.
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Picking away at that a little bit and the frightening bit is something that's interesting for me.
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Like, is what what frightened you about it at early doors in the early part of your journey?
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Facing daily life sober.
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Right.
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Completely sober facing situations, uh maybe health situations, social situations, uh anything at all, facing it sober, because realistically, from the age of 19, I couldn't tell you probably a week that went by that I hadn't used something.
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:06.959
Yeah.
00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.360
So face life sober, aye.
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:10.319
Yeah.
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And I remember thinking that, thinking, like alcohol for me had been such a big part of my life, just like you were describing there.
00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:23.360
Like, ever since I was about that age or younger, like I drank all a lot.
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:29.279
And uh like the early part of my recovery when I stopped drinking, I was quite euphoric.
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You know, I thought this life's amazing, you know, this is this is great.
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And then I suppose, you know, looking back on that now, you know, I was completely bonkers at that point.
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You know, I was I was quite unhinged.
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And uh I suppose now I've got a bit I'm not saying you're unhinged, by the way.
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But uh but looking back on it now, I could see like how chaotic I was, even though I was sober.
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Um but I remember being like once the euphoria had worn off of being newly minted as as a sober person, like it was quite a daunting thought about never having a drink again, because I knew that I knew I couldn't, you know, and um but I I didn't try I I learned through through going to meetings and meeting other people just to keep it in the day, you know, just to worry about today and tomorrow's going to take care of itself.
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And it um and that I live my life like that for ages around you know just being sober today and a day becomes a week and a week becomes longer, and that becomes much more manageable.
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And I suppose like now I'm now I'm a bit further into my journey.
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Like I don't need to live my life like that anymore.
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And it's like it's quite a relief to be able to think, think more than a day ahead.
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You know what I mean?
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Yes, absolutely.
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Um and I can only wait for the day that I can actually actually say that.
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The rest days recently, I must admit, somewhat I was a year in June, July, August, September, so a year and three months in, and only just over the summer holidays did it hit that I can actually be a parent full time to my children, sober and able to cope and know things about drugs and alcohol on a daily basis.
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:16.399
Like there was days I noticed that I went, Oh, although I'm struggling.
00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:19.279
I actually just really wanted a cup of tea.
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It's a cup of something so similar an energy drink or just something, I don't know, just I something other than drugs and alcohol, and it was nice.
00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:36.959
For the first time I can honestly say that was actually it's not even nice, it's it's more of a relief to breathe a wee bit.
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That's just what I yeah.
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That's just what I was gonna say.
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It's that's a relief.
00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.360
It's like I don't need to do that anymore.
00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:50.639
And like for me that was a bit of a light bulb moment when you when you realised actually that it didn't have that hold over you so much.
00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:59.199
And like I suppose the diff my perspective on it, like ten years plus in is that it still has a little bit of a hold on me.
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I still think about it occasionally, but it certainly is tiny compared to where it was where I was where you are.
00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.959
But it was cropping up in my thinking, you know, quite a lot of the time.
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:16.720
And you had to put a lot more effort into it um into staying sober than probably than I have to do now.
00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.800
Yeah, recovery changes as you go through uh the years.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.000
Uh I'm not saying that I I don't have to do anything, you know.
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:38.720
I do have to do things, but I'm blessed in the the work that I do is that I'm talking about recovery and addiction and recovery and um all of that stuff every day, and that's what kind of keeps me on the straight and narrow, as it were, which is helpful.
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It is absolutely like I I compare probably last summer to this summer, and I'll keep referring back to summer because it is a big deal.
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It's definitely a time in my life where I would go out and party, I would absolutely be drunk or when they go home, it would be days and end, it would be whether there was children here or not, children here, um it would it would just be like you say, chaotic.
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.120
And then I I I realised that I I was watching my neighbours over the back garden the other night.
00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:10.480
They were having a drink in their caravan, and it was like, I nearly, I nearly went, oh.
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And then and then I just I was like, oh, they're gonna be so hungover the next day, and then I went to my bed and put a film on, and again, a relief, a relief to be like this normal person that that we're kind of I don't know, trying to become thought the right thing, I don't know.
00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:31.600
I do I like I don't know if any of us are normal.
00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:53.919
Like I think it's overrated, but I think what what maybe like for me it's around you know, having a bit of peace of mind and knowing that I don't have to live my life that way, and like looking at what other people's behaviour that you're just referring to there and thinking, yeah, that's that's fine for them if they want to do that, but that's that's not my thing anymore.
00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:05.279
And I think society plays a big part in that in terms of the way that we're trained to think and the way that society accepts kind of drugs and alcohol now as being the norm.
00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:08.080
Certainly alcohol, more so uh cocaine.
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.399
I think it's very socially acceptable now.
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:10.879
Yeah.
00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.759
And um it's interesting.
00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:17.679
It's interesting that you know we're not opting into that anymore.
00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.000
No.
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:19.840
It's a re it is definitely a relief.
00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:29.919
It's one aspect that I've not been well, I had a relapse in June this year and I had one drink.
00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:34.080
Well, I thought I could have two drinks, but um we all know that kind of happened.
00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:40.480
Uh and it ended up we took it uh starting off regular ending in tequila, and me ended up in hospital.
00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:55.759
But I was I just I can't even remember where I was gone with that road, but what I wanted to ask you was actually in the early days of your recovery, what did you do as hobbies?
00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:02.080
Like to fill your time that these those early days, because I really did think that was the hardest for me.
00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:11.200
Yeah, uh absolutely and and uh like boredom and having stuff to do um w was a big challenge for me.
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:17.919
And um what what I did, I mean I had numerous goals, like I was saying before, uh uh getting into recovery.
00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:23.360
And th through all those attempts, right, at getting into recovery, I learned something every time.
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:30.000
And what I learned was that if I was gonna stay sober, I had to put a lot more effort into it.
00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:35.360
Um it wasn't just about stopping drinking, um, which is what I thought it was to start with.
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:43.519
Um that if I was gonna stay sober, I would have to do a lot of things, um, and I'd have to completely change my life around.
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:51.519
And and so I kind of embarked on that journey of thinking what could be different in my life, and that kind of occupied most of my time.
00:11:51.679 --> 00:12:01.759
So what I actually did was I was being supported by um uh a drugs and alcohol charity called Ad Action, which is now called We Are With You um or With You.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:07.519
And um I had a brilliant support worker there, um, who's now a friend of mine.
00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:16.879
And um I I I popped in and I asked, look, um I wasn't was no longer a client there uh because I had been discharged because I've been sober for quite a while.
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.679
I said, uh I would quite like to volunteer.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:34.559
Um and they said, I absolutely come on in and um I g I got a a role as a volunteer within Ad Action and for me instantly that gave me some purpose and it gave me something to do.
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:48.960
I knew I couldn't go back to doing the kind of work that I used to do because there was a a drinking environment in my employment, which I knew I couldn't go back there because I tried that and failed numerous times, um spectacularly usually.
00:12:49.200 --> 00:13:09.200
And um so I started volunteering and with that came, like I said, a sense of purpose, um, and actually quite quickly um one day became two days and two days became three days, and eventually um I remember one of the guys who worked there saying to me, like, do you work here now?
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.679
And I'm like, Well, I don't really know, but I come here like three days a week and I love it.
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.639
And and I was just doing things like making people cups of tea.
00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.200
Um I kind of worked up to answering the phone.
00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:22.399
I was super nervous about it.
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:33.600
I was so anxious as a person then I can barely recognise um who I was because I was just full of anxiety, I was terrified of answering the phone, answering the door.
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.360
But I got used to those things.
00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:40.159
I kind of pushed through my comfort zone a wee bit and started doing stuff like that.
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:46.399
And eventually, I think because I was persistent, the service manager offered me a sessional post.
00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.559
Um, and I got I actually got a job there just through turning up a lot.
00:13:50.799 --> 00:14:11.279
Um and and with with that whole journey around using my lived experience to help other people, that's what certainly occupied my time, which was your original question, but actually I did a whole lot more than that because it gave me um it helped me make sense of what had happened to me.
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:12.480
That makes sense.
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:12.960
Yeah.
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:19.840
By creating something positive out of what had been a really terrible experience for me and for my family.
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:26.320
You know, w when I was um through my drinking, I lost um a lot of things like most people do.
00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.320
I lost my employment, my family situation became really difficult.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:38.399
And and I wanted to get all of that back, and I realized that this would help me to do that by proving that I that that I could do something else.
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.080
Um and I did.
00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:42.320
And it's been quite the journey ever since.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:46.399
But that's that's really where it started off for me, was just answering the phone.
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:47.519
Absolutely.
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:54.799
I can totally relate that I think for me coming in the course and me um the recovery course that we did.
00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:02.399
I never, ever, ever felt before then that I would had somewhere, I don't know, well safe to share.
00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:18.480
We always say safe to share, but just a wee a wee team of people, which was a great wee team of people, all sorts of characters and different backgrounds, and I learned so so much about other people, but I learned so so much about myself and relating to your anxiety.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:25.759
I remember you saying to me that you thought the anxiety was creeping out my collar on the first day that was there.
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:32.559
And I remember feeling it, and I remember I remember doing the presentation, I remember feeling it then.
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:40.320
Um in fact, I remember feeling it every single day I turned up, but to sit in and say that I completed it, that was a really big deal for me.
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:48.559
It was a big deal for me, and it was a big deal for my family, and proving to them that I could commit to something, because commitment was always a big thing for me.
00:15:48.720 --> 00:16:10.399
I remember saying to Kevin at Smart Recovery, um, who was my coach, he said commitment, he said he said that he said that I could, and this would be like basically the chance for me to commit to something and to prove to myself that I can be that person again and I can redefine myself and I can make a starting point, and that's what I did too.
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:22.000
Um and actually I'm just staring at my uh smart recovery, uh, my scores and stuff about redefining myself, empowered and contributing and values and beliefs.
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:27.840
And I've actually I'm just gonna touch on that just because it's kind of comes off what you've just said there.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:44.960
Um I'm still redefining myself, I'm travelling a lot now and meeting and making new connections, which is a big deal to me, because I I there would have been a time where I wouldn't even have got on a bus myself without my gran or my mum or somebody, just somebody.
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.360
Um but now I take the kids all over the place.
00:16:47.519 --> 00:17:07.759
I go to I come down to gather shoes and I bet you guys, and then feeling empowered and contributing my recovery to my passion, and I feel empowered by the course that we did do, and that's allowing me, I feel to then go forward and and loads of doors you open for me since I met you.
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:27.039
And I think for somebody who was in my position and still is in my position, if you like, because it's still really, really super early on, and I get that, but the passion to contribute back to the community to to bring something that wasn't here when I needed it.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:37.359
Um because if it wasn't for Kevin registering me on that course through A-Stas, I would never have known about you, I would have never known about borders, bordering recovery, I would never have known about it.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.400
Um there should be.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.200
I and that that brings me to my values in belief and recovery to my passion.
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.559
Like on the back of what you said, I don't know where I'd be without it now.
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:50.799
It pretty much is a full-time job.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.559
Yeah, and that's such a good point.
00:17:52.640 --> 00:18:04.880
And I think um I think a lot of people maybe who are listening to this podcast who aren't in recovery or just maybe interested in it, don't realise that you know being in early recovery is is a big job.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:11.599
You know, it takes everything that you've got um to be successful at it, and you've got to really throw everything at it.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.319
And and it just it just takes over your life.
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:21.680
But but when you have that attitude to it, like this is my job now and this is what I'm gonna do, then you can make a real success of it.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:22.400
Absolutely.
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:29.680
And I think if like me, I'm a single mum, I've got three kids, and I've got a part-time job that I absolutely love.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.440
I don't have a big circle, I keep my circle very, very small now.
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.680
Um it that that means a lot to me.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:40.960
I need to be able to trust, I need to be able to have people around me that can support me on my good and bad days.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:19:06.880
Yeah, I mean the people, the people thing that you're just referring to, like people in connection and people that you can get like a sense of hope from think is um like it was massively important for me in the early part of my recovery, and like being introduced to people who are one, two, three, four, ten years in recovery, like for me was alright, okay, this is a whole new world for me.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:11.359
Like I and I didn't know any of this existed or these people existed, or this was a thing.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:27.680
Yeah, you know, and it it it kind of opened my eyes, and particularly I remember like going um so I live now in a wee rural village in the borders, and um I remember going up to Edinburgh to go at the Serenity Cafe, which is sadly closed now, but it was Scotland's first recovery cafe.
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:40.000
And I'd never been to a recovery cafe before, I didn't know what to expect, and but I knew like we didn't have any like that in the borders or or there was very little in Dumfries and Galloway as well.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:44.799
And I I went up there and met all these people in recovery who were doing amazing things.
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:55.440
You know, there were people who were working in the cafe, there were people delivering courses, there was cocaine anonymous meetings, there was women's support meetings, all kinds of things going on there, and I thought, wow, it's unbelievable.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:08.640
Yeah, you know, and it like and that's for me, that's where like a lot of my connections have come from, and a lot of the hope that I needed right at that time, that's where it came from in spades was just people saying, Well, you could try this or that.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:14.160
And I'm really lucky that um I'm still connected to some of those people who helped me.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:25.279
Um the impact the girls in uh the ladies' empowerment group um in Gala Shields, um, and I don't go into the group often, there's loads of members to the group.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.880
The girls are absolutely phenomenal out of this world.
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.079
Um, and if you ever get the chance to go, I would go.
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.759
And I I hope that one day we'll have something that got here.
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:44.720
But just stepping in and out of conversation, knowing that they've got your back, knowing that you're no judge, knowing I don't know, it's just a whole new group of people.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.920
It's just it's refreshing, it's it's crazy.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.279
It's crazy.
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:52.640
But it but it it's inspiring.
00:20:52.799 --> 00:21:00.160
It really is inspiring being around people that it gets such drive through such devastation.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:08.880
I thought, right, there's a lot of people that's just came through some eye, but they've taken such drive and passions from it, and it's their life now.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:10.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:16.640
I absolutely and I think that that's something that all of us can do, particularly.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:22.000
You know, what when folks are in early George Recovery and they're thinking about what can I what can I do with my life now?
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:47.200
I mean, that's that's why, and I absolutely love delivering narrow training courses that we deliver because you get to meet people like you who are like, I remember when you came in to the course the first day, um, and it's not unusual like for somebody to come in and they are super, super anxious, you can tell they really just want a bolt and go right out that door, they've just walked through and think this was a really bad idea, what am I doing here?
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:54.960
Um and to see like the change in you over over that um five, six days was just it was was unbelievable.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.480
You had to see it to believe it.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.440
Somebody who really didn't want to be there and by the end of it.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.480
Helping other people getting up and sharing, talking about your own experiences.
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:05.759
It's absolutely brilliant.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.440
That's why we do what we do.
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:08.160
Thank you.
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.039
Just even the confidence that came for that road.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.400
And I've I've never forgot it.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.119
There's days, there's good days and bad days in recovery.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:16.000
Absolutely.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:23.039
Um I have more good days now than I do bad, but on the bad days, I think back to that time and think, right, okay, that's fine.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:24.240
It's just a bad day.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:35.839
Remember where you were then, remember the lassie that walked through the door at that time and just you know, and some days I don't feel like I've come on that far, but other days I'm like, oh my god, I am smashing it.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:49.759
And it's jumping back to the we support groups and um the people that I've met through this, and even just on a on a phone call to yourself um and other people that I've met just can pick you up just like that podcast that guess.
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.319
What about it started on the first of September?
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.920
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:04.640
And like what we're doing through all of that is we're building up our recovery capital, you know, we're building up our our social connections that's part of our recovery capital.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:15.440
The more people we've got in our lives and that are on a similar journey and uh that that can help us or we can help them, then you know, the easier it is for us uh to stay well.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:28.000
There's a lot of research around that, around um actually reaching a hand out to other people um just helps us feel better about ourselves and it helps us um have a more successful recovery.
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:28.480
Mm-hmm.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.279
Absolutely.
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:30.480
Very flirty.
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:36.400
So there's one thing I was wanting to ask you is like, so far, what's the stuff nobody told you about?
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:40.400
Where's the where's the kind of what's caught you off guard?
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:46.000
Nobody tells you about zero identity.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:50.240
Um nobody tells you how can I word this?
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:57.519
When I mean it like zero identity, like I before I went on the course, I had no clue what I was entering.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.319
I'd uh the unknown was absolutely the worst feeling for me.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:16.160
A lost night sleep over at the night before the course was awful, anxious, and it was reliving like traumas and like no, I'm not gonna go, I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna put it off, I'm gonna self-sabotage.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:23.519
But what it I think the phrase I was looking for is I was handed a new blank call this to start my life again.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:33.119
So for me it was hello, my name's Denise, I'm 38, I'm a single mum with three kids, and I'm here to start my life again, and that that's it.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:40.640
That's it, and I know I can explain it any other than I didn't know who I I got to the point of not knowing who I was.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:48.240
I could not identify as anyone that I could even recognise, and and I think that's the biggest deal.
00:24:48.400 --> 00:25:01.680
I definitely slowly getting there, and I've got a lot of hard work, and it's and it is constant hard work every day, there's no recovery date, there's no magic tablet that and people might want to try and sell you that.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:15.759
Or what I will say though is no, I'll take that back a wee bit, is because medication is important along with your own recovery journey, and that's probably another wee valid thing I remember Kevin telling me your medication is important.
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:31.200
So if there is something you think that's underlying, I think it's definitely worth delving into and worth finding the answers for yourself, absolutely, however that may be, because I definitely find comfort in that and realising what my makeup is and why I'm like this.
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:35.119
So I that's probably the biggest bit of it, yeah.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.720
I love the way you put that.
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:44.799
You know, there's two two really important points in there, and the blank canvas or loss of identity or not understanding what your identity is going to be now.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.279
Um I think like I really relate to that.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:59.359
And um somebody taught that to me because I was really struggling with you know the loss of my employment, the loss of my my sort of internal thinking around who am I.
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:11.039
Like before before I knew kind really who I was, even though I was an addict and I was dependent on alcohol, I knew who it was, I had managed to hold a job down, provide for my family, and I c and I'd lost all of that.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:11.279
Yeah.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:16.079
And and with it, all my self-esteem had gone along with it, what little I had left.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:16.400
Yeah.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:24.720
And somebody taught that to me around the blank canvas, and and it's a brilliant approach to your recovery of thinking.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:30.400
How many people get the opportunity to hit the pause button on their life, right?
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:37.279
And go, right, I'm gonna stop doing all of these things and and stop being maybe that person.
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:39.680
I'm gonna try and be a slightly different person.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:50.720
And I'm I'm gonna take this blank sheet of canvas, I'm gonna put what I want to to have on it, rather than what other people have kind of made me have on it over over my previous life.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:58.799
And that's kinda my journey was like you know, when you're younger and you get the job that your parents want you to get, or whatever.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:00.640
I mean, that's my my lived experience.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:09.279
So you go and you get that job and you do that thing, and you didn't really want the job, and you weren't really suited for it, but actually you could do it, and it was quite well paid.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:10.480
That's my journey.
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:16.079
And and I but in order to be successful at that job, I had to pretend to be somebody else.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:22.720
And uh and that's that person had to drink a lot to be able to cope with with that lifestyle.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:28.559
So so for me it's like I'm gonna stop doing that now, but I have no clue what I'm gonna do.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:42.240
And but I'm just gonna try some things until I until I settle into something that I can maybe that that gives me some joy, you know, and uh I've I've managed to find it and working it working in the recovery field.
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:42.640
Yeah.
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:44.960
And uh so yeah.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.440
No, I share that passion with me, Rhode.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:48.079
I really do.
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:54.880
Um if there's anything that I I I mean, I used to be a dental nurse, it's so I can see with the employment and the job.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.799
I was a dental nurse for 18 years.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:58.559
And I I never felt right.
00:27:58.799 --> 00:27:59.680
Never felt right.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.160
Although I was great at it, I was a great nurse.
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.240
And I just never felt right.
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:10.880
And I remember sitting Christmas Eve drinking with everybody, I'd always be the drunkest, you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:18.799
To then sit at 38 and say about the blank canvas and I'll get to know like you say, to the life I enjoy.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.680
So there's a sheet of paper and I just keep adding to it whenever I feel like it.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:28.880
And really life's not that bad right now, and I hope it stays that way.
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:30.559
Yeah.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:42.559
Yeah, well it will, because you know, you're all gonna put things on that bit of paper that that are things that that are gonna be nice, that you're gonna enjoy, that are gonna bring you joy and motivation for your recovery.
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.440
And um and that that's certainly my experience.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:51.200
And also, I mean, not that it's a total plain sailing recovery either.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:29:01.200
You know, it's not I think a lot of people think when they come into recovery, you know, I remember thinking, right, my life's just gonna be a lot easier now because I'm not doing all this stupid stuff.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:08.480
And like, you know, you've just got as many challenges as everybody else around your life and uh that that life throws at you.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:20.720
And and for I suppose for me like y a lot of your coping strategies of because your previous coping strategies around for me using alcohol's gone now, so you have to learn new ones, don't you?
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:21.279
Yeah.
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:24.160
And you have to learn to manage your emotions.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:24.960
Yeah.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:35.759
I think for me that's one thing I didn't really understand about recovery in the early stages is that all of my emotions would arrive back in my head.
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.519
Um and they don't they don't all arrive in like an orderly fashion.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:39.759
No.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.200
They all arrive in a great big jumble of messed upness.
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.200
And and like nobody warned me about that.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:30:07.519
Uh like it's really challenging because suddenly you've gone through all these years of numbing your emotions, and then all of a sudden you think like you feel everything, and like you cry everywhere I cried everything, you know, as crying at East Enders, you name it as crying, and uh getting angry at stupid things, and it's just it's just that was bonkers.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:20.240
Um and I think yeah, we tr we try and like help people with that, teach people coping strategies, help them to understand their emotions, and yeah, but it's quite challenging, isn't it?
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:26.319
Uh uh absolutely I I think I've got a shorter, definitely got a shorter temper, sober.
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:28.559
Definitely realize that myself.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:40.640
Um I remember that's definitely that funny, but I remember being called fun mum, because fun mum and she was drinking did loads of fun, crazy things, like water slides, all that.
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:41.920
You know the stuff.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.799
And now mum's really sensible.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.720
So I've got to cope with that and uh it's like ruining my street cred.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.400
Yeah, well, it's better to be a little bit boring.
00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:06.880
I am a little bit boring now, I'm no fun mum, but actually you came up at least I'm present, and I think that's the biggest thing for me is being present in my kids' life now that I you're present, you're present in life.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.319
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:14.079
And I think that's for me too, is is like being present for your loved ones.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.920
And I I mean it's just a totally different way of being.
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:28.160
And I suppose like as you go through recovery, one thing I've really struggled with is kind of guilt and shame, particularly around uh my children.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.160
My children are adults now.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:39.039
And I have struggled and continue to struggle with like my own emotions around what kind of dad was I really.
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:43.839
And that that's my internal thinking, you know, is and I I struggle with that all the time.
00:31:44.240 --> 00:32:03.920
Um and um I think we all have to find our own way through those thought processes because they can be they can be really quite corrosive to to our well-being, you know, when you when you beat yourself up around things that you know when you sometimes you'll see a photograph or a memory comes up on Facebook or whatever and you think, look at this state of me.
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.240
Like that happens to me quite a lot.
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.759
And I think, wow.
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:11.039
And it and it does sort of figure you into way of thinking.
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:15.920
Oh, god, you know, not a great dad.
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:27.279
But then I've tried to kind of reframe that thinking a little bit around the fact that I was just trying to do my best in in difficult circumstances with a terrible drinking problem.
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:27.599
Yeah.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.640
You know, I mean have some compassion for myself.
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.839
I used to let that eat me up, the guilt and the shame every single night, and even up until recently.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:42.480
But no, um and it was because I could see so my kids are 15, 9, and 5.
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:46.240
I could see the different parenting uh types.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.079
I was, does that make sense?
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.799
So here's Roby, he's went through, he's just got six A's and a B.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.880
He just passed his exams, right?
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.799
So he's doing amazing.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:05.440
Um, and I see where I was present and not present in his life, but thankfully his milestones I don't think were affected that much.
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:11.680
And then I've got my middle child where his milestones were being affected because of my drugs and alcohol.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:16.079
Augustine being in his life and being present and being where I needed to be.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:23.519
His dad was away working in the lorries, but he's unknown to all that because I'm trying to keep things and keep things afloat.
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.319
Um, and then my Roman, and my youngest one, he was kind of smack bang in the middle.
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:31.440
He's now sex, I split up with his dad six years ago.
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:41.920
So he's been really in the in the midst of it, and you see the different types of parenting, but I've closed the door in that, and the reason why I've closed the door in that is because they're thriving now.
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:54.799
They're absolutely thriving now, and and my honesty in doing this, doing the recovery course, and going different places and meeting different people through recovery, and and I can show them pictures.
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:59.759
I'm like, oh look, where are like you know, and I've got all that to share with them, so I they're thriving.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:00.880
So what's the point?
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:12.079
I can't change what I've done before, but if any if anything it's taught Robbie not to drink irritate drugs, I'm hoping that's the same for Reggie and Roman.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:14.559
Fingers crossed.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:17.280
That's such a lovely way of putting it, Denise.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:26.800
You know, around closing the door on that that shame and guilt because actually you you've done the best you can in those times and now and now they're thriving.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:30.079
Yep, they're still here, they're healthy, they're thriving.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.000
And I that's all you can do.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:42.480
You can keep reliving it if you want, but you can't your your kids are a reflection of yourself, and there's bits that you will see that you won't want to see, but you need to face them.
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:51.599
You need to face you don't, and if you get asked the questions at whatever age they're you answer them honestly, and if they don't understand you, that's fine, they will one day.
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:52.320
That's true.
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.079
That's different ages for my kids, definitely.
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:00.800
Yeah, and I think as I think as a parent in recovery, you'd learn to be patient.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:11.840
You know, uh that's one thing I've learned is to be patient around you know, having those conversations that you won't have, but um, you might feel ready for them, but but uh they might not be.
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.440
No, your children might not be.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:22.400
So you have to be patient around actually when when the time's right, you can have those conversations and um also what conversations are you having?
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.440
Is it is it for their benefit or is it for your own benefit?
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:30.480
And if it's just for your own, maybe you just need to suck it up and uh get on with it.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:32.639
That's that's my internal dialogue anyway.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:48.000
But definitely dealing with a teenager for the age of it was twelve until now, and my important things like exams I've learned just to be he'll come to me, just let it be.
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:54.639
Don't don't be in a new room apologizing and trying to justify there's there are no lessoning to that.
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:07.679
Yeah, yeah, and that's that's a lovely point to m to move on because um I was kind of thinking, you know, what's the plan now?
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:11.039
So what what things are you working on on your recovery?
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.719
What what's what's next for you?
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:18.559
So what's next for me is that I need to get back in touch with my smart recovery coach.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:25.440
Um over the summer I was really busy with the kids, um, so I feel like I need to touch base with them, see what's happening there.
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:47.360
Also hoping to complete my smart recovery training and be able to run meetings that you hold in Gallery Shields and likewise for here, first and our getting involved in as much as I can get involved in that my kids will allow me to, and their schedules will allow me to.
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:50.480
But I'm pretty I'm pretty excited about the future.
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:56.960
I think now that we're over the first half of the year, I've kind of got a a new kind of spring in my step.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:03.119
Um and then on the 20th, obviously, we've got uh do you want to explain about that?
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:04.480
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:17.920
So on the 20th of September, um we've got uh South of Scotland Recovery Festival, um, which is going to be open to anybody from Dumfries and Galloway, uh, from the Scottish Borders um and areas roundabout.
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:22.079
Um it's across in Gallashiels, um where our offices are.
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:26.400
Um but we've got free buses running from Strenard, Dumfries and Anna.
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:37.199
Um so um, if you have a little look um at our Facebook page, uh Borders in Recovery, um you can see uh some more information on there about coming along.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.239
Spoon be a lovely day out on a Sunday.
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:46.239
Um we've got some live music, we've got food, uh, we've got a bouncy castle and entertainment for the little people.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.960
Um we've got smart recovery meetings, and we're gonna have all kinds of things going on that day.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:52.239
Yeah, so well worth it.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.119
Well, it's a bit of a trip to Galler Shields, but well worth it.
00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:56.960
But uh it's definitely well worth it.
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:01.119
I promise everybody that they won't be disappointed, that's for sure.
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:03.920
That's good, that's good.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:05.760
Just finally rounding up.
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:18.800
Denise, um what would you say to somebody who's who's listening to this, who's still using substances, who's still drinking maybe, um, who don't know what to do, um what would you say to them?
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:20.400
How would you give them some hope?
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:22.239
Just join one group.
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:29.119
And whether that's picking up the phone or getting referred or some, just join a group.
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:33.760
Join join something that that that might just tick an interest.
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.639
You will never know who you will meet on that journey.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.000
And I couldn't stress it enough, and you'll know when you're ready.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:46.880
You'll absolutely know when you're ready, and there's no right or wrong time, just join a group, definitely.
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:57.760
Yeah, it's it's good advice, and uh, you know, most people listening um will be thinking, yeah, I'm too I'm too anxious to go to a group, or I I'm too I'm too embarrassed to ask for help.
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.519
Or I mean that's what I was like, you know, I was too embarrassed to ask for help.
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.599
Um I I wouldn't go to a group.
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:10.159
Um and eventually when I hit real rock bottom, um I I had no choice but to do that.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:15.199
And it's the best thing I ever did was to stick my hand up and go, could somebody help me?
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:15.519
Yeah.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.679
Um and I found actually uh there's plenty of help there.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:25.039
And there's there are plenty of people who who will who would help you if you're willing to engage in it, you know.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:26.320
Absolutely.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:30.719
Um and from my perspective, um firstly I reached out to we are with you.
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:37.360
It was an online chat forum, um, and I had a conversation that then led to a referral.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.440
So that was me trying to do it my own way before my psychosis.
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:48.639
Um obviously I was involved with the services when uh when my health deteriorated in October, so that was a different scenario.
00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:52.159
But to reach out, um, there's also Samaritans.
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:57.039
I did phone them one time, um, but I didn't speak to anybody, I just let them in the line.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:59.360
Um just to hear a voice.
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:08.800
Um, I've also dealt with um the crisis team as well, um, which I must admit, Fred and Fleet and Galloway were absolutely phenomenal with me.
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:16.000
Um the people on the end of that phone, picking up that phone at whatever time, and I ain't ready just to hear you, whatever.
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:26.239
I can't I can't express enough how great some of them females were on the phone with me during during all my times that I had to use them.
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:28.559
Yeah, that's that's brilliant.
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:32.559
And I think that's that is such a positive uh way to wrap this up, Denise.
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:43.519
And um, I just want to thank you for coming and having this this conversation and for your honesty and and frankness and sharing uh bits about your recovery with us.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.400
And uh it's been it's been a great discussion.
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:57.679
And if anybody is there listening, um, you know, as Denise says, uh you can reach out to with you um online or on the phone, um, and there is plenty of support out there.
00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:58.480
Thank you.
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:02.800
Thanks for listening to Breaking the Stigma from Dumfries and Galloway, ADP.
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.440
For support and information, visit dgadp.co.uk.
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:08.719
Take care.
