Genesis 19 Discussion

WEBVTT
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And welcome back to a chapter a day.
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Keeps the devil away.
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I'm Pastor Pleck, joined by Holland Gregg from East Side Community Church.
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Howdy.
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And Nicole Super Trooper Troop.
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Hello.
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And we are looking at Genesis 19 today.
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I'm so excited for this incredible passage, which should make uh you feel uncomfortable if this was read in the presence of children.
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All right, so let's talk about Genesis 19.
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Now, first off, I the thing I want to look at, a couple observations.
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You've got the two angels who we know weren't the Trinity from Genesis 18, because they're angels here in Genesis 19.
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Correct.
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We did have Yahweh with two angels.
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I'm gonna go with uh holy counsel uh that was with him to go and uh sure do an undertaking uh there.
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Uh maybe part of the Elohim, if you will.
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So uh, but what were some things that you thought was interesting about this passage there, Holland?
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I appreciate the Bible's total just honesty about the depravity and sinfulness of human beings.
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Just very straightforward about how wicked and depraved Sodom and Gomorrah are, as well as Lot compromising, someone who's, you know, was uh in the beginning righteous and wanting to show hospitality to the angels, and then just totally does something awful, offering up his daughters.
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Uh and then by the end of the chapter, the depravity of his daughters.
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Yeah, maybe that maybe he knew what kind of daughters hit they were.
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He's like, you know.
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No, no, no.
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I don't think that's terrible.
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No, that's not what it was.
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I think he knew they were angels, and so he would rather offer up angels than his daughters because on the great spectrum of things, you mean daughters than angels?
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Sorry, yeah, offer up daughters as opposed to angels, maybe?
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I don't know.
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That's weird.
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It's just completely a weird story.
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How about this, Nicole?
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After the the men of the city are, and it's every single one, every single man of the city is there.
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Every male, not just man, every male says young and old.
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Young and old, every son is there.
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And after they are blinded, they're not like, you know, let's call it a day.
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They still grope at the door to try and have sex with the men.
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That's wild.
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Very wild.
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I mean, this is God giving them over to their desire, right?
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To their flesh, right?
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Like there's just like what Holland said about like our total depravity, like this is this is depravity.
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Yeah.
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Like if you looked up the definition of depravity, this story should be.
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I don't care if it blinds me.
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I'm gonna have sex with these.
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Right.
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Like, you don't care what is in your way, like you're still pursuing sin.
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Like that is the darkness of their hearts.
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Yeah.
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And God had promised you would never flood the earth again a few chapters back, but um He did not promise that he would spare them burning coals and sulfur from the sky.
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That's right.
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So hey, you know, you gotta come up with creative waves to kill people, which you already made a promise about the way you wouldn't do it.
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It wasn't a worldwide global raining down a fire.
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That's true.
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Uh God did put he worked himself out.
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That was that was pretty impressive.
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Localized to one specific place.
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Yeah.
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Now, if you did you guys know this that the highest concentration of sulfur that's 99.9% pure is in modern day where sodom was.
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Boom.
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And uh, so if you go there today, you can look up any YouTube video and look up like the deposits of sulfur that literally look like uh fire that came down from Dang.
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Yeah, it's wild.
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It looks like uh it looks like a buckshot of sulfur all over the place.
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Hey, there's your uh archaeological evidence.
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Yeah, archaeologically now I do appreciate also the euphemisms.
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Uh where are the men who came to Unite?
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Bring them out to us that we may know them.
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Now, oh yeah, like that is an interesting way of saying I want to have sex with them.
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And then and then it's not like, hey, we want to have a conversation to get to know.
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We really want to get to know them.
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And because I mean, if anybody who didn't know what their Bible meant, like they would not understand, like, why is Lot so protective that he's so jealous that these guys just want to have a conversation?
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They want to get to know these guys, they seem like really great guys, and now they're upset at Lot for not being more hospitable.
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He doesn't want to know their daughters.
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Everybody in the whole city already knew their daughters.
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That he wants to know them.
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All right, that's where I think the the odd thing is.
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So that means it's euphemistic for they want to have sex with him.
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Um, right now Hebrew word yada, right?
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Yada.
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In other words, you know, yada yada yada, that's where that comes from.
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No, you know, you know, you know.
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Yada yada yada.
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah.
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There you go.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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You learn, listen, you don't come to a chapter day and you're not going to learn something.
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You will learn.
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All right.
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So, what were some other interesting things that I also thought that that he, that when Lot went to the sons or future sons-in-law, uh, or when who, yeah, whose future sons-in-law, he said, Up, get out of this place for the Lord's about to destroy the city.
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They thought he was only kidding.
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Now, I think when we talk about hellfire, a lot of people think that we're only kidding.
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Yeah.
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And so I appreciate the um maybe the depravity.
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I don't know if that's the right way to put that, or just the common sense, not common sense, the common reality of of like destruction that we sort of most people have towards like hell is coming, and everyone's like, oh, okay.
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It's like kind of a concept that's hard to conceive of, right?
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Yeah.
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Like, and you know, when I mean, we see this a lot in life, on the news, in movies, even when people talk about something crazy is about to happen, everyone's like, You're crazy.
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You're the crazy one.
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Yeah.
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You know, and it's it's like people only start to listen when it's someone of like authority and importance, or if it's like a big group consensus, yeah, you know, like we're group think consensus.
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Oh, totally.
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We I mean Yeah.
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So I'm not surprised that they basically laughed at him.
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You know, on this, also on the other side, I don't know if this was true for you, but I don't think, you know, in every picture or or tr children's story of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, I always see um uh what's her name?
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Uh the wife of Lot turning back as they're all in the desert somewhere, walk they're all facing towards the next city, and it's only her who looked back.
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But the angel said, We're not gonna destroy the city until you get to Zoar.
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Isn't that wild?
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So she she I think starts going back.
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Let's take a look at that because I thought that was a part that was sort of wild.
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Escape there quickly, for I can do nothing till you arrive there.
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Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
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Then the sun had risen on the earth, and when Lot came to Zoar, then the Lord reigned on Sodom and Gomorrah, sulfur and fire from the Lord out of the heaven, and he overthrew those cities and all the valley and all the inhabitants of the cities and what grew on the ground.
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But Lot's wife behind him looked back and she became a pillar of salt.
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What does that mean?
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I like again, every cartoon I've ever seen is like they're walking away and she turns around and becomes salt.
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Um, do you think that she went back?
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Because she's like, nah, my city.
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I think it I I mean it this says that she looked back, like she turned her head, and and their instruction to him is like don't like Yeah, escape for your life, do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley, escape to the hills lest you be swept away.
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So that's where I'm a little confused of what does looking back mean?
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Maybe they had arrived at like the outskirts of Zoar and the fire starts raining down and she looks back before they had kind of really settled there.
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I mean, I I think the idea is that she, you know, had part of her wanted to be back there.
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Whether she was just looking or whether she was actually walking back that way, there was a part of her that was like, Man, I don't know if I'm ready to really leave this place.
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Yeah, she had a hard posture of wanting to return.
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Now, here's the other thing I also thought was interesting is Lot gets to Zoar and he's afraid to live there.
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Right.
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Like he like he he was living in Sodom.
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Like it was your idea to be there.
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No, but think about it, he was living in Sodom and he felt more comfortable in Sodom than he did in Zoar.
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So that must have meant like Zoar was really, really, really wicked.
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Uh, I don't necessarily think that's true.
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Why is he afraid to live in Zoar?
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You know, he had been living in Sodom and Gomorrah for a long time, right?
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Like he had been settled there.
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And so when you're settled in a place and things just get like steadily worse, you're kind of like you have time to be like accustomed to it, I guess.
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Yeah.
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But then when you move to a new city, you don't know anyone there, you know, like who knows if he had anything with him?
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Like, who can he trust?
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Who can he not trust?
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You know, maybe there were some thugs walking around.
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I don't know.
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You know, there are any number of reasons that he could have been afraid.
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Yeah.
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Plus he's so clearly shows that these angels had a better plan than Lot did.
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And he and he somehow convinced them, which then you're like, why did the angels let him convince them on that one?
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Uh now they're not God, clearly, but they're just like, I I've got a job to do.
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I need to destroy the city, and I'm on a timeline here.
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Whatever, fine.
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We won't like.
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I don't know if there was like a quota from God of like how many you know inhabitants had to die, and like, okay, if we take this off the list, Zoar, all right, we're not gonna lose too much on the you know propitiation.
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I don't I'm not sure what was going on there, but it clearly seems like that they had some negotiating room that they were allowed to bargain with Lot on.
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Wow.
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The story is wild.
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Okay, and then all right, so he he's afraid, he leaves Zoar and heads for the hills, which that's what you know.
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We if you're ever wondering where Head for the Hills came from, right here.
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Right here, yeah.
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And so he goes to the hills, finds a cave, and then the one thing I just thought of, they didn't forget to bring the alcohol.
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Yep, they brought the alcohol.
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Like, I mean, they're they're leaving.
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No, I mean, honestly, like what are we gonna take?
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Priorities.
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Listen, bring the beer.
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Like, we cannot survive without listen, it's hard out there.
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That's that's when there's a little wine shop just outside the hills.
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Yeah, you know, before you left before you left Noah, twin liquors was just making its first start.
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Like, I mean, I just was like, what in the world?
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Where are they getting the alcohol?
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I mean, maybe they fermented, like, you know, cave beer and they were like, you know, all right, we'll get him drunk.
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I mean, what else are you gonna do?
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You live in a cave?
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You live in a cave and the internet was out.
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It was hard, hard living.
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All right, and and so how long were they living in the cave before they're like, we gotta take matters into our own hands?
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That's what I would want to know.
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Yeah.
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And like, how long do you have to go, like, well, our dad's not getting any younger?
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Sounds like a good idea.
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Like, what was like at some point you'd have to say, hey dad, have you thought about like, you know, investigating the rest of humanity?
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Like, I think they really thought they were the last people on earth.
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You know, I just easier to get the family out of Sodom than to get Sodom out of the family.
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You got the sexual immorality that you escaped, but is still present within his daughters, just a you know, an abandonment of God's sexual ethic.
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And uh in a cave now with uh their sexually immoral um perversions.
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And and yeah, but you know, they'd never been with a man.
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It says a lot about you know the the culture they experienced in Sodom, I think, and about um Do you think just everybody was gay in Sodom and so they weren't like interested in women?
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Or you know, or or sex sexually immoral, period, gay being one form of that.
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But uh at least to be married.
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Yeah, they were engaged to be married, so like that was still a thing, at least.
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Yeah.
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And and the and and listen, if someone came to if I had a father-in-law say, quick, let's get out of the city, the whole city's gonna burn up.
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I would probably be like, you know what?
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I'm going back to sleep.
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Yeah.
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There's just like they just came from Sodom and Gomorrah, which I I know, you know, hellfire and brimstone, whatever.
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But they were also just in Zoar, where I'm sure there were people, even though it was a small town.
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And they were still related to Abraham.
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Remember, Abraham saved Lot's rear end.
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Right.
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So, like, what on earth possessed these girls to think that the their only option was their fodder?
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Like, let's go.
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I mean, they used to have so many herds and flocks.
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Is now Lot destitute?
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Probably.
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It's not like Abraham.
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I mean, what happened?
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Like, I would like this.
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There must have been some family drama beyond the herdsman, and like Lot's like, I ain't going back to Abraham.
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Abraham came, saved his life, and then he goes and settles in Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Yeah.
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What is going on there?
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So I don't know.
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I I think that was like a wild thing for me as I looked at the story.
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So let's think about some truths that we can pick up about people or God.
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People suck.
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It's pretty, pretty generic.
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Yeah, I I think I like what you said.
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I think it's harder.
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It's you could take a person out of Sodom, but it's really hard to take Sodom out of the person.
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Yeah.
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And I think it takes an act of God.
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Because in all of this, even though they're interacting with angels, there's no worship.
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There was like whenever um you see Abraham get saved from something, he builds an altar to the Lord, worships the Lord.
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You don't see any of that.
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Lot does not do that.
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Lot is a righteous man who sees angels, wants to do the right thing, and he's called righteous.
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It's not like he he's not a righteous man.
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Uh his offering of his daughters probably wasn't his best move, but he was trying to save angels.
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And so one might chalk that up to like that was a good move.
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I I would say I think there's a theme with Lot of Um a short-sighted um decision that is kind of not thinking about um the bigger picture, the ethical issues involved.
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So even the decision, you know, when he when they're he's deciding which land, he picks Sodom because it's it's nice in some ways, but reality was you're you're planting down your family next to a wicked city that God was about to destroy.
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Yeah.
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Not smart.
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Next, uh, the angels, and you know, offering his daughters, snap judgment, like, oh man, let me save these angels, but you just offered up your daughters to these perverted men.
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Okay.
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Then you see that carry on to his daughters, short-sighted decision.
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Oh man, we're alone, we're in this cave.
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Let's get our dad drunk and sleep with him and have our father's babies.
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:08.320
Yeah.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:08.879
Short-sighted.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:14.080
So like there's this theme with him and his children of making these uh rash decisions.
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:26.399
Rash decisions, not thinking of the big picture, God's ethical standards, um, being patient and trusting, you know, like, okay, maybe the short-term harder thing is the long-term better thing.
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:26.720
Right.
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.320
And so I think there's a personal application there of like not making rash decisions.
00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:31.120
Oh, for sure.
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:40.000
Um, not just thinking about what's going to be the right thing in the moment, but what is gonna be the most faithful thing, the most God-honoring thing, yeah, um, even if it's harder in the moment.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:40.960
Yeah, I love that.
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:44.000
Nicole, what was your uh what the what what do you learn about?
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.000
I mean, I know people suck, but like, is there any more you can kind of draw out of that?
00:15:48.480 --> 00:16:00.879
Yeah, I mean, I think I totally agree with what Holland was saying, but I also like see a lot of this in myself, like, especially with Lots daughters and them just trying to like take control of a situation where they feel desperate.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.159
Like, you make bad decisions when you think you're desperate.
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.480
And the reality is you almost never are actually desperate.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:31.840
Like it's there's something that goes on in our brains when we think that there's not uh a pastor of a previous church I attended always said that there was a third option, you know, like we kind of get stuck in in either a single option or like two options that we think aren't possible, but there's always there's almost always like a third option that's ultimately better.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:43.039
And if you really trusted in the Lord to lead you and guide you in these situations that feel desperate, you would probably find a way out of it that way.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:43.679
I love that.
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:43.919
Right.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:52.960
Lots of daughters, you know, it's either we die alone, childless, barren in a cave, or we sleep with our dad.
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:53.440
Yeah.
00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:58.480
In reality, there's probably the third option of let's wait it out a little bit.
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.360
Let's uh see what the Lord might have for us.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:04.559
And uh yeah.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:12.640
Uh the way I'm looking at this, I I I'm really just reminded of like uh how in the New Testament he's called righteous Lot.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.039
So I was like, all right, how is he righteous?
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.599
And then I'm reminded that before God, I'm you know, I'm clothed in righteousness.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.640
And so I look back at Lot's history, his dad dies.
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:30.240
And um Abraham, Uncle Abraham, or Tarah, first off, like sort of like brings him into the family.
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:40.000
And I don't know if if Abraham and Lot were like brothers or you know, had but they're definitely connected as cousins, right?
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:46.400
Uh and so then he brings him along, uh, or actually, I guess it's his uncle.
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:47.440
Lot is Abraham's nephew.
00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:48.319
Yeah, it's his uncle, sorry.
00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:49.359
Yeah, yeah, it's his nephew.
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:53.599
So his Tara moves, his dad dies, so he's going with his grandfather.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:18:05.519
So his great going with his grandfather Tara, uh, Uncle Abraham, and then Tara dies, and then he Abraham sort of takes on that fatherly role and brings him with him and treats him as like a firstborn.
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.039
You can have whatever you want.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:08.559
Go and do whatever you want.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:13.119
I'm blessing you to go with the blessing, and he takes it.
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:19.200
And then whenever he gets in trouble, like his he's constantly being saved.
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.880
So I will save you from conflict, go take the best land.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:27.920
I will save you from the bad choice of getting involved with the wrong crowd and the gang warfare.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:28.880
He saves him.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.880
He then uh then now he's living in this city that's about to be destroyed.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:41.119
God sends angels to save righteous lot, probably based on the the the deal with Abraham and uh God talking.
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:48.400
Then he is uh he has to be saved, really kind of he saves himself in a sense from Zoar.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.480
Uh, and then he he runs out of people to save him.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.920
Like, I there isn't this like I'm trusting God.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.720
He was always rescued by Abraham, but by this time, for some reason, I think there was some sort of disconnect.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.400
But he was righteous lot.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.599
Um, and I and I'm trying to wrestle with that.
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:09.359
Uh, and I think for me, I think I've been saved so many times by God.
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.240
And then in my own fear, I don't run to God.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:14.480
I run from him and I isolate from him.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.119
And I think that's when the darkness sort of captures my life.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:23.759
And even though I can be seen as a child of God, the consequences in my life can be a darkness, and I don't want that to be a part of it.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.079
And so I think I think that's where we're seeing with a lot here.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.160
He is righteous, he is a child of God.
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:34.000
Um, but the decisions in his later part of his life he couldn't save himself from and he didn't have anyone else to save him.
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:35.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.160
He believed in God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:38.880
There we go.
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:47.039
Uh so listen, uh, what I want you to kind of take from this is like, what what are you being saved from that now you need to trust God again?
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:53.119
Or um where are you being short sighted today in in your own specific life?
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:57.279
And how can you lean into the Lord to ask for that third option?
00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:57.759
All right.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.720
Thanks for watching.
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We'll see you tomorrow on chapter.