The Same Loss, Different Grief — A Mother-Daughter Conversation

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This week's conversation is a little different for me.
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My guest is my daughter, Olivia.
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Liv is twenty-two, she's in her fifth year of college.
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She's a pilot and a flight instructor.
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And she's at the point in life where you're supposed to be figuring out who you're going to be when you grow up.
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But she's also already had to figure out how to keep becoming that person after a huge loss.
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Now, before you hear our conversation, there's one piece of our family story I want to explain because you'll hear Liv say a couple of names throughout the episode.
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Dad and BK.
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When Olivia says dad, she's talking about her biological father.
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She loves him deeply.
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And their relationship, including what it has meant to grow up loving a parent with serious mental illness, is an important part of her story.
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BK is my husband Ken.
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Ken came into Olivia's life before she was even two years old.
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She doesn't have a memory of her life without him in it.
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Technically, he was her stepdad.
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But that word has never really described their relationship.
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He has helped us raise her.
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He showed up for her.
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And as Olivia says during this conversation, there was never a moment when she wasn't his kid.
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So when Ken died seven months ago, my daughter didn't just lose her mom's husband.
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She lost one of her dads.
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And I think that's important to understand before you hear what comes next.
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Because this conversation is about grief, but it's also about growing up.
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It's about loving people whose lives and struggles can be complicated.
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It's about boundaries, faith, flying, family, and trying to build a future while grieving someone who was supposed to be a part of it.
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And there are parts of this conversation that were uncomfortable for the both of us.
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There are things Olivia told me that were difficult for me to hear.
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There were things I learned about her experience that I didn't fully understand before we sat down together.
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But that's also part of crossing this bridge.
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Sometimes the person walking beside you experienced the exact same event and came away from it carrying something completely different.
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So this week on Braving the Bridge, I'd like you to meet my daughter, Olivia.
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Hi mom.
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Hi.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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You're welcome.
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Of course.
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I want to start with something simple.
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Okay.
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Who are you?
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Man.
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That's tough.
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Who am I?
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Um who I am is I think is a person that cares a lot about other people.
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Um, but tends to also be very independent and try to figure things out on my own and experience the world um for what it is and not what for what people tell you it is.
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Um to get rid of those like preconceived notions from everybody.
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But I don't know, uh very playful.
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Uh I take I really don't take things too seriously.
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Um but I do I really do things in a very light-hearted and um considerate way.
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Pretty much everything that I do, I'm thinking about how it is affecting others.
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Awesome.
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And that's how I go throughout my life.
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Good.
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Yeah.
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I think one of the things and that people might not know about you, I mean, I I'm quite a braggy mom, I will say.
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Um, but how much you've already accomplished.
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You're starting your fifth year of university.
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Yep.
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Um, you have your pilot's license for powered aircraft, you're working on your commercial and CFI.
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Yep.
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You're also a glider pilot that came first.
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Yes.
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What was it like the first time you flew by yourself?
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Oh, yeah, that's uh that is the best, that's the best memory that I have.
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It was in the middle of summer.
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Um, I had started to really focus on flying and go for it.
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That moment where you level it out and you're just flying there and it's super calm, it's quiet.
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Um the airplane just settled, and I was like, holy shit.
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Like it truly is uh it's one of those memories that I'll never forget.
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So I think there's something interesting about flying because in many ways it requires you to be incredibly present.
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You have to pay attention to what's happening right now.
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Yes.
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Um, you can't spend the entire flight worried about what happened yesterday.
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No.
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And you cannot fly safely by focusing only on what might happen tomorrow.
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That's true.
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Um, do you think flying has taught you anything about life?
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Oh, a million percent.
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Yeah, it's taught me about life a ton.
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There's there's times where you realize that you you have to roll with the punches.
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Like, I mean, even when we're talking about our landing pattern, right?
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We have a set regimented landing pattern that we do.
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However, it changes.
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It's a set thing that is meant to change, right?
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Depending on the wind, depending on uh how high you are, depending on what airplanes are on the airport surface that you have to go and land at.
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Like it there's so many different things.
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Temperature of the asphalt.
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Yeah, sure.
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Temperature of the atmosphere more.
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Um, I have conversations with passengers all the time about when you're up in the sky, all the problems on the ground seem so small.
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Oh, yeah.
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Um so let's get into some a little tougher stuff.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So being young doesn't mean that life is easy.
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I want to talk about something I think is really important.
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There's an assumption that young people haven't experienced enough in life, you know, to yet really understand what hardship is.
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Um you're 22, like people think you should be carefree, out there having fun, should be figuring things out, living life.
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And maybe all of those things can be true.
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Um, but that also doesn't mean that life doesn't suck sometimes.
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It's true.
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Yeah.
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Do you ever feel like people underestimate what young people like yourself are carrying?
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Uh I think that that's kind of tough.
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And it's a kind of a cop-out answer saying that it depends.
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Um, because I do know a lot of people who are very privileged in the lack of bad things that I've happened to them.
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Right.
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Yes.
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One of my really good friends, he goes to flight school as well.
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Like, he was having trouble getting his license from the school.
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He had already passed the test.
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He was just trying to receive his license so that he could go do his job, flying turbine aircraft and everything.
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Um, and it was he was saying that it is the worst thing that has ever happened to him.
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And I don't, and I'm not envious of that, right?
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You know, because everything that I've gone through has made me who I am.
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Sure.
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But at the same time, it does take a sense of responsibility, I think, for people who have that privilege of I have not gone through the hardest things that I have gone through.
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I'm pretty sure the hardest day of my life is now behind me.
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Um well, you still have me.
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Yes, that will be a hard day, but I don't think it will be as traumatic.
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Probably not.
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Let's hope.
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Let's hope.
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Yeah.
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Um, we're very, very hopeful for that.
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So most likely, and this is what we can say a good thing, is the hardest day is behind me.
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Would I like it to be?
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No, I wish he was still here.
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Um, obviously, but you have to take the positives.
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So, yes, there are people who think that young folks have not gone through as much as what they are going to go through.
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Um, but I do think it all depends on the way the person carries themselves.
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I think that's true.
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I've seen plenty of television shows um where 40-something women like myself, even 30-something women, yeah, will say, You're 22, what do you know?
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And like I think that that is easy.
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It is easy.
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And there's always that question of you never know what somebody else has gone through.
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You know, you don't know what happened this morning.
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Yeah.
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Do you think there's extra pressure on you to look like you're doing well even when you're struggling, either in your career or school or yeah, of course.
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Um yeah, I mean, I mean, I think that's true for everyone at every age, but I I feel like it would be extra for someone your age who like you're expected to hang with friends and you know have more experiences where like I am perfectly capable, able, and no one's gonna judge me if I stay home every night for a week straight.
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Yeah.
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Um, I think that that I think there is an expectation there.
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I was really fortunate to have a lot of really great professors and friends, and and my work was very understanding.
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Um, but I did feel a sense to like I gotta keep my life moving a lot faster because I am at this point where the grind is still happening.
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Like the my nose is to the grindstone right now.
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I have to keep going, I have to get back to it.
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Um, and maybe that's more of an expectation on me than anyone else that I put on myself.
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Um yeah, it's tough in aviation itself, right?
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Because we can go into the the medical thing, right?
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Like mom has heard me talk about so many times, like I can't do this, I can't do that.
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If I were to get this, like I would I would lose my medical and then I can't fly anymore.
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Um, and those are serious things that a lot of people think about.
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And a whole podcast episode that I could talk about on my own, um, where there's this stigma not only around mental health, but health in itself.
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Yeah, so when all this stuff is happening with BK, I went to the very I have a lot of in aviation, my club, there's a lot of older men around, and I kind of had a heart-to-heart with all of them.
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I said, go and get your checkups, get your physicals.
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Like, please, for the love of God, check yourself.
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Um, because it's not worth it, right?
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I know you think flying is your life, but it's it's not, right?
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It's right.
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So you think that sometimes like people put off just so they don't lose their medical clearance?
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One million percent.
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Yeah.
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A million percent.
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And it's more so with mental health, right?
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Um, because they're so nervous about getting diagnosed with serious depression or serious anxiety.
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Um, when you can absolutely just go to the doc go to a therapist and get some help for what you're dealing with, right?
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But they're just so worried about that being on their medical forever.
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Sure.
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And if they're an older generation, chances are they're also dealing with the social stigma of being labeled as you know, someone that needs mental health help.
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I think that there is a lot of people who put that stuff off to the side, and myself included.
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Like I have not gone to therapy.
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I don't think that I've haven't gone because I'm worried about it, but I just haven't, I'm no longer the person that I was when I would say, oh, I gotta go to a doctor for this.
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You know, I got more of a let's figure this out first, and then if I really need help, let's go to the doctors.
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That makes sense.
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Now, I'm not just talking about like losing Ken.
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I'm talking now that like through your entire childhood.
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We hear a lot, um, kids are so resilient.
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Like they'll be fine.
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Kids are so resilient.
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Have you ever felt like you were expected to just be okay because you're young?
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Yeah.
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I mean, of course.
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That's um, yeah, I mean, it's I think it's not even like a resilience thing, it's like a time thing.
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Like people think that this stuff isn't going to affect you for very long and it's only gonna be a couple days or like I remember when we lost Nana, like I was back to school like the next day or two, you know, and it wasn't like uh take time off and and and understand it and everything.
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Like this type of stuff does take time, especially for children, because it they don't process it the same way.
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There's no way that they can, so it has to be a longer process, and I think especially with the invisible trauma, sure is what they call it, with my dad waking up in the morning, having him in a manic episode, um going to school in the morning.
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I mean, nobody really knew besides our family what mental health issues my dad had.
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Sure.
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Right?
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It wasn't reported to the school, none of my teachers knew, right?
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And I was very uninterested in in learning in school for a long time.
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I mean, it wasn't until high school that I started to get my stuff together, you know?
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Yeah.
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So all throughout middle school, I was just totally out of it.
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Totally out of it.
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Um, and we had a serious conversation about that.
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And it wasn't necessarily related to trauma, but it was related to you gotta start getting your stuff together or else you're not gonna have somewhere to go at the end of this.
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Yeah.
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Because you got to have some performance from high school to get in into college.
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And I faced it a little bit, right?
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Not getting into main campus at Penn State.
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Right.
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And probably if I was even thinking about aviation stuff, I wouldn't have gotten in.
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Like my my high school performance was not great.
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Um, it was at least better than what we expected it to be.
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But um, I absolutely think I had unresolved things and that I was supposed to be resilient and to bounce back.
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That just wasn't even uh talked about.
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And I was going to therapy, but I wasn't talking about the stuff that I wanted to do.
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Like that you needed to.
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That I needed to.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Which is hard when you're young too, because I feel like, and we'll get into your dad a little bit, but you were also very protective of him.
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Yes.
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Yes, I was.
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So you also I still am.
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Yes, for sure.
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And rightfully so.
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Yeah.
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Rightfully so.
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Yeah.
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We're gonna well, we'll s we'll come back to that because that's a big part of who you are.
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But I want to I want to talk about BK.
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Okay.
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You were not even two years old when he became a part of your life.
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So for all intents and purposes, your entire memory, he was there.
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I I I don't have a memory without him.
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What do you remember about him from when you were little?
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Hmm.
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I remember I you know what one of my earliest memories about um him playing the drums.
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Oh, yeah.
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I loved listening to him play the drums.
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I don't uh when I think back to we'll call it Austinville House, um, I really don't have a lot of pinpoint memories of of him itself.
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Now that I think about it, I don't I guess I never realized just because everything in this in these last 10 years has been so concentrated.
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Um but uh yeah, I I I do I do truly remember him playing the drums, and that was some of my favorite uh memories of him and sitting here.
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Okay, awesome.
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What did he mean to you?
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Yeah, that's hard, you know.
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I think acknowledging it is part of the healing.
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It is I think uh what he means to me, because he still definitely means so much is joy, you know.
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Definitely a very joyous person, and I carry that a lot.
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Like even the we send videos back and forth all the time, and every single video he's just having a good time.
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Yeah, it's very rare he was having a bad day.
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Well, that's not true, he would have bad moments.
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His impatience was unmatched, that's very true.
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I think about it a lot.
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Um I think that's where I get my impatience from.
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Is his he would he's used all the impatience up.
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I don't think I only have patience.
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Um but he meant means.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:49.519
Uh I mean joy, loyalty, compassion.
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.400
He was very much like me in the devil's advocate, sort of way.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:01.039
You would you'd always say that we would pick on you or that we know you they teamed up on me.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:05.119
It was because we had a very similar way of looking at things.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:14.400
I don't want to say you're vengeful, but mom holds a grudge really well for like 30 seconds.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.279
I understand that, but BK and I immediately see the other side.
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.119
Yeah, you know, it's not a 30-second wait thing.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:24.160
Got you.
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:35.039
Um yeah, so I he means I mean chosen family, for sure.
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.079
Truly.
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:40.079
Um, and everything that encap encapsulates that term.
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.720
Um yeah, because he chose you too.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:43.440
He did.
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:45.839
There was never a moment where I wasn't his kid.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.039
No, ever.
00:19:47.599 --> 00:20:03.920
And uh I I think he he loved hard and chose and chose well.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.039
Yeah.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:21.039
Um so I he means that to me and and and everything that encompasses to choose who you love and to love them hard and fiercely, you know.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:24.880
Um here's maybe the hardest one so far.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:26.720
What do you miss the most?
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.519
I think what I miss the most isn't hasn't come yet.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.400
Yeah.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.960
Well, we haven't yet hit football season.
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:40.720
That's gonna be really hard.
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:42.640
It's gonna be really hard.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.519
Um because that was that was our thing.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:49.920
Yeah, for sure.
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:51.440
I definitely miss that.
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.640
I'm gonna miss it the most, I'm pretty sure.
00:20:55.119 --> 00:21:01.599
And then I'm also gonna miss um his laugh.
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:04.720
That's oh yeah, truly what I miss the most.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:15.759
I loved him a lot, but um, like I said, um we've discussed already, I'm very independent.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:26.319
So I'm not saying that he didn't give me a lot of advice or parent me much, but out of all three of my parents, he was not the most parenting person.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.559
No, he was well, especially once you kids hit adulthood.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.039
Like he loved being your friend too.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.920
Yeah.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.680
Um that.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.000
Yeah, I get that.
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:47.200
The laughs, the jokes, the camaraderie.
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:48.240
For sure.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:49.519
In sports.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:53.920
Um so yeah.
00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:58.319
I I think something else that I really miss is him being here for you.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:00.960
I get that.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.440
I love that you love me so much.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:19.200
I think sometimes people have a narrow idea of what it means to lose a parent.
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:28.160
Like you think about like we think about like kids that lose their parents and how sad that is and how they need their parents and things.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:35.599
And we think about being older, like I was in my 30s, and you know, there are people that well into their 60s still have their parents.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.359
So you think about it like when they lose them from old age.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:55.279
But losing someone when you're your age is a strange place to be because you're old enough to understand everything that has happened and to process everything that has happened, but you're still young enough that you need your parents.
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:56.160
Yeah.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:56.960
Yeah.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:01.599
So what has it been like to lose him at this stage of your life?
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:06.000
I don't know if I can answer that question fully yet.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.319
Um surreal.
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:09.200
Yeah.
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:18.559
Because I still think that I'm in this point of grief where it it truly hasn't I there hasn't been a moment where like I needed him.
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:19.359
Right.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.839
And he wasn't there.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:23.599
Yeah, I get that.
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.119
Of course there's times where I like I wish he was there.
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:36.720
Or like parts of life where like I knew he would have been there and he wasn't.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:37.440
Sure.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:51.759
Um, but right now I mean when we talk about like what my life has gone through in these last months.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.720
Um everything has kind of been routine.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:57.440
Sure.
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.359
I haven't done anything that I wouldn't have done in the last four years.
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:09.359
So it's probably more like me where you hear a piece of news or you see something funny and you want to send it to him and you want to share it with him.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:09.680
Yeah.
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:12.799
And and it's those moments that you really feel it.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:13.279
Yeah.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:13.920
Yeah, I guess.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.920
That's that's really hard.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:29.119
And then like just spending time, you know, like whenever I'm home alone here, like knowing that he would be sitting where you're sitting right now.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:29.839
Right.
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:31.119
And he's not.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.000
I know.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:40.799
So do you feel more like you lost someone who was a part of your past or someone who was supposed to be a part of your future?
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:42.000
100%.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.079
Yeah, future.
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:56.799
That's why I say like I I can't answer that question because Malcolm and I have gotten very close.
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:09.839
I don't think we were at where we were gonna be the closest.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:11.359
The best was yet to come.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:11.920
Yeah.
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.160
If you could tell him one thing right now, what would it be?
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.519
You're gonna fucking roll your eyes.
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:27.839
That you're okay.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.200
That I'm okay?
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:30.079
Yeah.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:35.839
I think that's what that's what he would want to know.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:36.559
Yeah.
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:37.839
For sure.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:40.799
Always thinking about other people, you.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:41.519
Yeah.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.000
That's probably what I would tell him too.
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:45.119
In fact, I do.
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:46.799
I tell him that all the time.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:51.680
So you're your first thought was was about me.
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:52.559
Yeah.
00:25:53.440 --> 00:26:01.680
And you're grieving BK, I'm grieving him, but obviously we're experiencing the loss very differently.
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:02.480
Yeah.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:10.960
What has it been like to watch your mom lose her husband while you were also losing one of your dads?
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:16.720
Hard.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.240
To put it slightly.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:29.759
Um it's we're both heartbroken.
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.559
And then every time that I see that you're heartbroken, my heart breaks.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.240
You know.
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:48.000
It's just like a perpetual cycle of like each other because then you see that I get upset, and then you're upset more, and it's that's just that complete cycle of that.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.000
Um do you feel like you need to take care of me?
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.880
Yeah.
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.319
And I think you know the answer to that question.
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:58.319
Um, of course.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:03.440
Um, have you ever held back your grief because you knew I was hurting?
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.400
Do you feel like oh, don't cry, don't cry.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.640
Mom's sad right now.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.039
I don't think in that sense, that's good.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.799
I would never want you to do that.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.400
No, and most of the time we cry together because that's a healing thing.
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:18.720
Yeah.
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.960
You know, to be together and knowing that somebody else is there with you.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:33.839
Um I think there are some times where like it's it stops me in my tracks.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.839
How much you're hurting.
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:37.039
Oh, yeah.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:50.000
Like it truly puts me in a call it like a paralysis, but it's like we're we're empaths, sure.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:28:02.400
You and I, and when you tell me that like I would never understand, I know you're not saying that, like, to be hurtful, and I know it's but that that's what sucks the most because it's true.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.680
Yeah, and I truly cannot understand, yeah.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:07.039
And it's really hard.
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:08.880
That's the hardest part for me.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:24.880
That I I I there's sometimes where I I have nothing that I can do to help or to understand or to be there for you, and I'll just sit.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:32.079
Yeah, and I just have to let you go through it, and that has been the hardest part for me.
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.240
Because that makes sense.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.200
There's there's nothing that I can do.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:45.599
Has there been anything that you wish I had understood about what you're feeling?
00:28:51.519 --> 00:29:02.480
There's absolutely been moments where I wished that you had either heard what you said or thought about it a little more.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:17.279
Um and I couldn't think of what they are right now, but in the moment I'm like, I know she doesn't mean that, or like she's just not thinking about others right now, which you can't expect it to be.
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:53.119
Um and I would hope that that would be the case, but at the same time, like I'm not angry at you, or I wouldn't wish you to take it back or wish you to apologize because I don't think even along those same lines of like uh like you wouldn't understand or um like nobody gets it.
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:53.759
Sure.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:58.960
And please know what I said was never to diminish what you were feeling.
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:04.720
I know, and I do know that because you would have been very upfront if you were trying to be that word.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.279
Um and I know that that's the case.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:09.920
Um I too know what it's like to lose a parent.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:10.480
Right.
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:26.559
So I and I can almost understand, and I can probably even pinpoint what you said because I even remember saying, I know what it's like to move lose a parent and how terrible that was, and this is so much worse.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.319
Yeah, it was very similar to that.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:38.319
Yeah, I and I remember saying that, and that wasn't to diminish what you're feeling because I know how terrible that is.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.000
Yeah, I know what you do.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.599
And I knew that that's not what the case was.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:47.920
It it's just hard when those two things are said in the same sentence.
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:49.599
Yep, nope, I totally get it.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:31:01.359
So I think that was more of me not being able to believe that I could suffer this much more pain.
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:02.640
Yeah.
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.599
I think that that's it was a statement on that.
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:05.920
Yeah.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.000
That I didn't realize how much worse it could get.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:10.400
Yeah.
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.279
Yeah.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:20.960
That's that's definitely I'm sorry for all of the all of the things here, but I think it's important to talk about.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:29.920
We live in a society where you're expected to just move forward.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:46.720
And um, and unless you live that grief, you know, to be such a privileged person to I mean, I have friends that still have their parents, their siblings, their everything.
00:31:47.200 --> 00:32:00.559
I've taken yeah, and I do passenger rides, I give people rides, and they they talk all the time about their parents, or they're up visiting their parents, and they're like in their 50s and 60s, and it's so like I get so jealous.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:09.440
Yeah, yeah, I do, and in that same breath, I have to be like wow, what a blessing.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.079
Yeah, for sure.
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:10.720
You know what?
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:12.880
Definitely good for you, you know.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:15.680
So let's talk about your dad.
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:16.240
Okay.
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.400
And I want to be respectful because this is your story.
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:26.319
You live, you lived it separate and apart from me.
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:27.039
Yeah.
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:33.279
Um your biological father, your dad, lives with a serious mental illness.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.000
Yep.
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:40.799
Your relationship with him has sometimes been very complicated, intense, and difficult.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:41.839
Yes.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:47.759
So what is it like to love someone as much as you love your dad?
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:49.920
Because I know you love your dad.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:50.720
I do.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.920
While also needing boundaries with them.
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:55.279
It is tough.
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:01.759
Um, and I mean, there is a likely chance that dad watches this, like if he finds out about it or something.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:02.960
He definitely will.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:04.160
He will watch it.
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:10.000
Um, and so I'd want to be clear when I say she loves her dad.
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.920
She loves a dad.
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:12.960
I do.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:16.000
Um, and he understands my boundaries too.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:26.240
Um, we have had more conversations now that I'm in my adulthood about his mental health and who he is as a person.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:36.720
Um, and I'm also trying to be more honest with him in my adulthood at the same time with my thoughts on it too.
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:54.240
Um, and being open about like what I'm feeling and where I see his mental health coming into play or his disabilities coming into play uh in his life, because he tends to deal with a lot of he has problems dealing with other people.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:54.880
Sure.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.680
Um and so I try and be very up coming and forth with him about that.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:03.839
And he knows that I have been, and we've had some really good talks, long talks.
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:13.440
Um well, I think that's very important because one thing I've always admired about your dad is his open and honesty about his mental health situation.
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:20.079
Like he does not hide it, he does not shy away from it, like he is always very honest about it.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.719
And and you have been raised knowing that that's a part of his life.
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.199
Yeah.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:38.480
Dad was on meds when I was growing up and went off of meds um when I was about 13, I think.
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:41.360
Um, and that's when things started getting bad.
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:53.760
Yeah um knowing now what he was going through when he was on medication, um I would never want him to be on him again.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:54.239
Sure.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:55.360
Because they didn't work.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.119
Um well they did work, he was just a shell of himself.
00:34:59.360 --> 00:34:59.599
Sure.
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.480
Um, and like I said, I love my dad.
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:12.639
Um so that question of dealing with somebody that has those these issues, what we're referring to is bipolar disorder.
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:13.679
Bipolar one.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:14.960
Bipolar one.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:21.599
Um and he's been living with it for 40 years.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.079
Yeah, I mean, what we can tell.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:28.719
Like well, d since diagnosed, like he was in his 20s, early 20s.
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:29.599
Yes.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.880
So um that would be close to 50 years.
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:33.280
Yeah.
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:35.360
Because he's turning 70 the next year.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:35.920
Right.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:37.199
In February.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:41.039
So um And it's been very taxing on him as well.
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:47.199
It has been, and that's something that needs to be acknowledged too, because he like he's very open about it.
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.039
So uh in my high school years, I started to set boundaries.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:51.760
Sure.
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:54.559
Um, and that was very hard.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:57.920
That was a very that difficult time in my life.
00:35:58.159 --> 00:35:59.440
Um It was.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.800
And then in college it started getting better because there was just a physical barrier, there was just so much more space.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:16.719
Yes, and now it's even better because I have been able to I don't want to say get over myself.
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:20.239
Um, you've grown into yourself.
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:26.960
I do, I have, and I am able to sit on the phone and talk with him for over two hours when he needs to just rant.
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.400
And I wasn't able to do that when I was short in high school.
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:43.920
Um, so now I'm just able to be there for him when he needs it um and support him through um his paranoia and um depressive episodes and stuff.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:48.960
We had a really long talk about his depression um for Thanksgiving last year.
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:56.880
Um it was one of the most eye-opening times um to really understand who my dad is.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.440
Um and I'm very grateful that I that we've had that conversation.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:09.760
And I wish I would have had something very similar with BK to talk about who he was um as a person.
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:10.400
Yeah.
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:17.760
Because I don't know if I ever knew him like as Ken.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:18.639
Sure.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.119
But I don't know if you're really supposed to.
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:22.960
It it's weird.
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:29.840
I mean, like, I'm pushing 50 now, and I I don't know who my dad is as a dad a lot, you know.
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:42.400
Like um, we've we've had a lot of moments recently where he's opened up and let me in and told me stories about his younger self, and you know, he's a very private person.
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.079
Um so I think I think it's a crapshoot.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:51.920
Like it just depends on who your dad is as to how much they allow you to know about them, you know.
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:52.639
Sure.
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:53.440
Yeah.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:38:03.920
Do you think it's hard for people to understand that you can love someone as much as you love your dad and still need distance from them?
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:14.800
Because I feel like unless you've lived a life with someone that you have to set boundaries with.
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:18.960
Like you just feel like you're supposed to be all in, you're always there for somebody.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:23.039
Like, yeah, and if you're not, then you don't love them as much as you shaded.
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:24.800
But I know that's not true.
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:38.960
Like, but I think I just wonder if you've ever had conversations with your friends and where you've kind of had to explain your relationship with your dad a little bit about you know how and I think both of you need boundaries, you know.
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:42.880
Like he doesn't need you parenting him either.
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:43.679
Yeah.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.920
Like, am I a good enough daughter?
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:48.800
Yeah, like am I there enough for him?
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:50.960
I definitely could be there more.
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:52.320
I'm not enough.
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:57.760
I think all daughters think that at some point in their life, so that's not unique to you.
00:38:58.079 --> 00:38:58.719
Yeah, I know.
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:07.119
And I also think I have trouble even with his own family, with their distance, sure, um, and not understanding it.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.880
And you know who also had a very hard time accepting that?
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:11.519
Ken.
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:16.719
Like he was the biggest advocate for my dad.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.000
Oh, he really was.
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:19.519
Like he loved my dad.
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:26.239
Yeah, um, always in every circumstance in life, had a soft spot for good dads.
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.400
Yes, and your dad's a good dad.
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:36.719
My dad is he loves you, yep, and he showed up for you, and you know, as much as he could, you know, he was there.
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:41.840
Yes, and Ken always recognized that in another dad.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.599
He was always an advocate for him.
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:45.199
Yeah, a very big one.
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:54.159
Um, and I there is some privilege in that because BK was not as close with dad as other people that was a barrier there.
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:54.639
Right.
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:55.679
He had a buffer.
00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:00.320
He didn't need to set the boundaries that a lot of people in his life have needed to set.
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:02.960
Yes, your dad's life have needed to set.
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:07.440
Um he had me as a buffer, a beast judgmental guy on the planet.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:08.400
Literally.
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:13.119
When things would happen, like they would sit next to each other and talk to each other.
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:14.559
Yeah, exactly.
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:21.920
It just I think it shows a character of who they both are, because I think my dad understands why you and him didn't work out.
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:22.719
Sure.
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.679
Um even though it's different reasons for each of you.
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:31.280
Whatever he needs.
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:37.840
Um and that's fun, some something fun to experience in adulthood too.
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:38.639
Like understanding.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:48.159
And I think Ken understood also very well why you two didn't work out because he understood you more than anyone else in this world.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:48.800
100%.
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:51.280
And no, even more than me to sure.
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:58.880
So um, yeah, that was that was a very interesting time with them.
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:00.400
My dad moved away.
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.920
He no longer lives nearby, he lives around four hours away.
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:06.880
So um, yeah.
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:14.320
What have you had to learn about the difference between compassion and responsibility?
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:17.840
That's tough.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:33.840
Um man, I compassion is putting yourself in somebody's other sh in somebody else's shoes, you know.
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:34.719
Right.
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:43.119
And responsibility is knowing where they have made the mistakes.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.079
Dad makes a lot of mistakes.
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:59.440
Um I understand why he makes them, but being a responsible adult, you can't make those mistakes, or you can't allow those mistakes to define who you are.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:00.079
Sure.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:09.199
And that is where I have learned how to differentiate the two with him and even with my own self, right?
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:27.280
Um there can be a sense of understanding um with everybody out there and understanding who they are and why they do things, but at the same time, at some point you might have to be like, it's still unacceptable.
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:27.920
Sure.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:31.039
And that's hard, especially when it's your parent.
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:33.199
Especially when it's your parent.
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:38.960
Um now, most of the time, he never crosses a boundary with me anymore.
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:46.559
Um, he's very respectful and definitely makes sure that like we make things work.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:50.239
Um, and that is all very different from when I was in high school.
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:50.960
Right.
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:54.239
Um, and I think because he knows that I'll stick to it.
00:42:54.559 --> 00:43:10.079
And and I think about that year that I never went and saw him, or never stayed at his house, or two years maybe it was, um there was a very definitive point at which I said, I'm no longer staying at his house.
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:11.280
I refuse.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:13.440
Um, and you said okay.
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:16.880
Um, and then I didn't for a long time.
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:22.000
Um, and he never understood why for the longest time, too.
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:34.480
But that period where I stuck to it and I didn't back down has made him understand that I will stick to it again.
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:39.840
And it would be very easy for me to say no, easier now than it was then, even.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:40.320
Yes.
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.800
What would you say to someone your age or even younger?
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:57.519
I mean, because you've dealt with this for your whole life, yeah, who loves a parent or a family member with a serious mental illness, but is struggling with the emotional weight of the relationship.
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:07.679
It sucks because, like, I don't want to say you gotta put in the work, but it it's work.
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:08.320
Yeah.
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:12.960
And if you want a relationship with that person, it takes work.
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:24.880
It takes a lot of um stepping outside yourself to an understanding or uh trying to learn about what they're going through too.
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:33.199
Um and and that's hard when you're little and me trying to tell you like your dad's brain works differently.
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:38.079
Like I remember having this conversation with you, and you're probably six years old.
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.199
And like, how do you explain that to a six-year-old?
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:42.400
It's tough.
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:42.880
Yeah.
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:52.639
Um, but I think always being honest with you about it had uh was a lot of headway.
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:53.840
Yeah, of course.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:06.639
And I think the other thing is is like when I say that it takes work, I mean that like it is very easy for a kid to cut off a parent, especially if they are somebody like me.
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:10.639
I don't need my dad.
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:11.280
Right.
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.639
I am not financially dependent upon him.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:18.400
Like I at any point could have cut my dad out.
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:25.119
Um, and it took a conscious effort to say, I want my dad in my life.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:36.320
While he has a lot of those um things that he's dealing with, he it does stem back to he was a good dad, and he is a good dad.
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:47.760
So I understand people that don't want to go through that and say, like, you were terrible for to me, and you were the one that chose to have me, right?
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:49.199
Like I owe you nothing.
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:53.440
And I understand kids who say that, but your dad never stopped trying.
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:54.400
That's another thing.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:46:00.159
Yeah, he never stopped trying, he wanted to be a part of my life, and I wanted that too.
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:02.320
Um, and I love him so much.
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:07.440
And it was that moment where it's like, okay, I want this person to be in my life.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:19.599
We have to start having conversations about what is then going on and why um I needed my space and how we can keep moving forward.
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:27.519
Um, and it took me a long time to want to have that conversation because it's that conversation's really, really, really hard.
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:28.800
It's super hard.
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:30.079
It's really hard.
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:37.440
Um, and dad wanted to have it for the longest time, and that also would make me not want to see him more, you know.
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.000
And it's like, I need to talk to you about what's going on.
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:40.880
And I was 14.
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:42.960
It's or you needed to be ready too.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:44.639
And I wasn't, I wasn't ready.
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.840
I was like, I need my space, and I can't explain it why.
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.239
Yeah.
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.119
And that, and I can't imagine how hard that was on him.
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:56.639
And I'm very grateful that even after all that, he was still, let's make this work.
00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:57.760
That's wonderful.
00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.039
Yeah, I'm glad.
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:02.480
I want to talk about the weight of everything all at once.
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:03.119
Yeah.
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:20.880
So you're grieving, you're dealing with a complicated family relationship with your dad, you're starting your final year of college, you're about to be building your career and moving forward after school.
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.440
Everything that has to do with flying and all your upcoming tests and certifications.
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:30.480
And you're trying to have a life.
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:31.679
That's true.
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:36.239
So, how do you hold all of these things at the same time?
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:37.840
Do you compartmentalize?
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.320
Do you let it all be you at once?
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:43.440
Like, how are you surviving?
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.239
What do you do to survive, I guess?
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:48.320
I live in the moment a lot.
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:49.119
Yeah.
00:47:49.679 --> 00:48:00.880
Um, when immediately after BK died, it was a thought on my brain, 24-7.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:02.239
Like it didn't leave.
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:07.920
Yeah, you know, and that was like two good months of that.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:10.320
Uh, everything made me think of him.
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:15.679
I couldn't shut my eyes, like it was all-consuming.
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:18.559
And then I started working.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:29.920
And it would be every once in a while in a conversation or something that I did, or I mean, he's the background on my phone.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:33.519
Um, but even that kind of got blurred, you know.
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:34.320
Sure.
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:40.800
So I just truly lived in the moment, and it's it's truly watching the grief process happen.
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:56.880
Um, where like it's not all consuming, it is still there, but to live in the moment of accepting it when it happens and being okay that it's not.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:05.679
And I had a really hard time for a while to allow myself to not think about him all the time, you know?
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:11.119
And there I feel like my brain was trying to force myself to think about him.
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:13.119
Like, why aren't you thinking about him?
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:14.800
Why aren't you talking about him?
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:18.960
Um and being okay with that.
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:20.719
And it's the same thing with my dad.
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:24.239
It's almost kind of childish in my object permanence.
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:25.199
Oh, yeah.
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:26.320
No, I get that.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:33.599
I am very, I very much like not absence makes the heart grow fonder, absence makes us more forgetful.
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:34.000
Yeah.
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:34.400
Yeah.
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:46.239
And it's like I just go through my day and I really don't think about it until it comes up, and then I think about it and I allow it to happen.
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:47.840
That's very healthy.
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.480
And I think that that's kind of where I'm at.
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:56.559
I try not to hold it in, and I also try not to allow it to consume myself.
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:57.440
That's good.
00:49:57.679 --> 00:49:58.559
Um, yeah.
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:02.639
But I think um, well, you can't run from grief.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.239
Uh, it will catch you.
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:04.960
True.
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:15.840
So I think the healthy thing to do, and I and I've told you I don't know how many times over the last almost six months, he's worth every tear.
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:16.880
True.
00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:19.760
And I'm never ashamed to show him.
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:20.480
No.
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:27.039
Um, I mean, I take every chance I can to talk about him.
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:35.199
And it's I wish more people went through grief of some sort so they understand like wanting to talk about somebody.
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:44.559
I think it's I think it's very possible that people think like they don't want to bring him up.
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:49.039
Because like, because oh, then she'll think that she'll remember that he's gone.
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:50.400
Sweetheart, I know.
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:52.880
Yeah, like it I think about it all the time.
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:54.320
Like, I know he's gone.
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:56.159
Yeah, like let me talk about him.
00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:01.039
Yeah, and that's the thing, it's like I truly just want to talk.
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:01.599
Yeah.
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:09.840
Because when we are not talking, he's not there, right?
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:22.239
You know, and it's like right now, it's only our memories and everything that is holding us understanding that that he is gone or that he was here at some point, you know?
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:22.639
Yeah.
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:32.960
Um, because everybody gets so like, it's like, no, like I miss him, and I'm probably gonna cry in this conversation, but I really want to talk about him, so just listen, please.
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:36.639
Um do you ever feel like you have to keep moving?
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:47.280
Because if you stop, everything that you've been holding back might catch up with you, and I think this was more along the lines of like you had to go back to school two weeks after Ken died.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:49.519
And those that was tough.
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:51.119
Those weeks were hard.
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:54.559
Um, yes, I felt that way.
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:56.239
Absolutely.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:58.639
Um, and it I did it.
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:05.760
It wasn't it wasn't like you literally did it because when you got home, yeah, like you fell apart for that first week.
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:07.280
Like it was like nothing.
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:10.880
Yeah, I was on this couch for an entire week.
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:12.400
I didn't I didn't leave.
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:19.280
I was I was here on this couch in this house playing Symnautica for a week.
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:20.559
Yep, total week.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:21.920
Um but you needed it.
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:29.920
I did, I did need it, and um what a privilege for me that I was able to take a whole week and do that too.
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:46.880
Um should have been studying for my CFI, but I I wasn't, and it's just okay, and it it worked out, and in 15 years, I'm not even gonna think about that week, you know, like, oh, I should have done this differently.
00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:48.880
No, you're gonna be glad that you took the time.
00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:50.079
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:54.800
Yeah, instead of failing my CFI because I didn't take my time, but you didn't.
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:55.840
I did not.
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:57.199
No, so that's good.
00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:58.000
Yeah.
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:04.880
So you're building a future, you have lots of goals and plans, yeah, you're pursuing a career.
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:10.239
Has all of this, and I I know the answer to this, so let's just talk about it.
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:10.800
Okay.
00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:16.880
Has it made it difficult to imagine that future, or did you ever think about changing your plans?
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:17.760
Yeah.
00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:19.679
We had that conversation.
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:20.800
Yeah, for sure.
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:27.119
Um I was gonna, there was a week that I was not gonna go back to school.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.320
Um, and I was gonna stay home.
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:38.320
And I think you said, I'm gonna go get my seaplane license and we'll go to Hawaii and just fly around the islands.
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:39.199
And I said, Okay.
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:41.440
Yeah, it's let's do that.
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:45.199
I think we've always had those things of like, yeah, we'll just change everything.
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:45.679
Yeah.
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:47.039
Oh, honey.
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:48.159
Yeah.
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.199
I was the queen of blowing my life up.
00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:52.239
Well, that was the thing.
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:57.519
It's like um we also all had the understanding of like no big life changes for a year.
00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:58.960
We we made that pact.
00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:01.039
Yeah, no big life changes for a year.
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:02.880
So come March.
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:06.320
We'll see what happens.
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:19.679
At the same time, like it has definitely changed my understanding of like this life is not guaranteed, and anything that you want to do, you have to go do because it's not gonna be given to you.
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:36.079
And I've thought about it a lot, and I also think about too, it's like if I was told a hypothetical situation before Ken died, what would you change about your life if Ken died?
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:39.119
I don't know if my answer would change.
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:40.480
Oh, I mine wouldn't.
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:41.199
Right.
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:46.719
Like, I don't think I don't think my path, I would have changed it.
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:50.320
No, I would have been like, oh no, he would have wanted me to keep going.
00:54:50.639 --> 00:55:13.679
One of the reasons I started this podcast was because after I lost Ken, I went searching for others, you know, online, um, TikToks, Facebook groups, you name it, looking for hope, for um, you know, like any kind of advice in navigating this part of my life.
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:19.199
Um, so I think it goes along the lines of how you wouldn't change anything based on the hypothetical.
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.000
Like we lived and loved hard.
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:24.400
Yeah, there was nothing left undone.
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.760
No, and so I I'm very grateful for that.
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:29.280
Let's end with hope.
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:31.360
What are you looking forward to?
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:33.920
You're also gonna roll your eyes at this.
00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:38.880
Um I'm looking forward to being a really good student.
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:39.840
That's great.
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:41.519
Why would I roll my eyes at that?
00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:43.920
Because it's like cliche.
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.679
Yes, and you used to tell me it's like you need to not care so much.
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.039
Because I I once I got to college, I really started caring about school.
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:51.440
Sure.
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:55.679
Like it wasn't like a well, you're a great student and you love learning.
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.559
Yes, I do.
00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:02.719
And so those it once you made up your mind, it was very easy for you to do.
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:16.559
I also know this is your fifth year of college, and you're taking you've already finished everything you need to finish for your major, um, but you haven't finished everything you need to finish for aviation.
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:26.000
So I get not wanting to like overwhelm yourself with what classes you're taking and things like that.
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:29.360
But I think it's very encouraging to hear that you want to be a good student.
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:34.079
Yeah, probably more so in the plane than in the classroom, but I get it.
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:37.199
My thing is I mean, that's where we want you to be the best, right?
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:43.519
Because if you're gonna have all of these souls under your, you know, wings, literally.
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:44.639
Yeah.
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:52.719
Um, no, they um yeah, I uh being an instructor this year has taught me what it means to be a good student.
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:53.599
That's great.
00:56:53.840 --> 00:57:02.880
One question I like to ask all of my guests is what do you know now that you wish you could have told yourself at the beginning of grief?
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:12.880
Like the beginning, like the week that in the two weeks that you spent here at home with me after Ken died?
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:32.079
Like, is there anything that you know now that you learned about yourself now, even though it's only been six months that you wish that you could tell that person to to talk about that night?
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:44.400
Because all man, I know we were ending on hope, but um all of us held that night in our heads forever.
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:45.440
Yeah.
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:48.400
Um and it will be the trauma.
00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:53.760
I think about me sitting in my bed that night when you got the call.
00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:58.239
You were the first one that answered.
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:08.559
I wonder like how different that would have been.
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:14.400
Because those and I I also think about like what I would do as a mom.
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:22.239
And somebody told me because I was talking about it with them, they would they said, like, I don't think I would have called my kids.
00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:24.559
I don't I don't think I would have put them through that.
00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:30.239
And I've thought about that a lot and and what I would do.
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:44.639
And I don't know, and it would have to be in that moment because I don't obviously I do not blame you for calling me because in your heart it's like I have to let you know, like you can't go a second thinking that he's around when he's not.
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.320
That's that was my thought, yes.
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:48.559
Yeah, and I don't blame you for that.
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:53.679
Um but that's a long drive home with that heaviness.
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.519
Those four hours were the most lonely I've ever been.
00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:08.719
I get that.
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:13.599
Because it was the worst night.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:15.039
I know.
00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.480
I'm sorry if it was the wrong choice.
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:24.239
I didn't.
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:26.480
I don't I was out of my mind.
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:27.599
I don't blame you.
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:28.159
Yeah.
00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:31.599
And it's not something that you would have ever thought about.
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:34.480
And oh no, I thought about it.
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:36.239
Well, I mean, beforehand.
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:36.960
Sure.
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:38.800
I mean, I made the choice.
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:39.679
Yeah.
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:46.000
But like But how could I call you and say you need to come home without telling you why?
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:48.400
No, I no, I understand that.
00:59:48.639 --> 00:59:48.960
Sure.
00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:52.079
Yeah, no, I I can't, I don't blame you at all.
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:52.639
Sure.
00:59:52.960 --> 01:00:05.119
No, I get that, but believe me, in in the depths of all of the craziness my brain was going through, yeah, it was definitely on my mind.
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:05.519
Yeah.
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:10.639
Like it was tearing at me, yeah knowing that you were alone.
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:11.519
Yeah.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:14.239
That uh, yeah.
01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:16.400
I don't wish that you didn't tell me.
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:16.880
Sure.
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:18.000
That's not what I wish.
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:19.119
No, I get that.
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:23.199
Um and in the moment I think I just wish I wasn't alone.
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:24.159
I get that.
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:28.960
Um and there was nothing that you could do about that.
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:31.599
I know that tore you up just as much.
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:35.599
Um I would tell myself to talk about it sooner.
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:36.400
Got you.
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:43.920
And it's hard to do that because we were all going through our own different things.
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:48.800
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:50.079
Thank you.
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:54.960
Definitely awful.
01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:56.960
Yeah, terrible.
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:14.719
So I one of the big parts of this podcast, Braving the Bridge, is the transition that happens, whether you want it to or not, from who you are before the event to who you are after the event.
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:15.119
Yeah.
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:17.760
And that is a transition that happens.
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:29.360
Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens over the course of months, sometimes it takes some, you know, somebody a really long time to come to grips with the trauma and the tragedy.
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:40.880
But what would you say to someone who is standing on this bridge, you know, making this transition, whether whether they wanted to or not, whatever transition they're in.
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:41.679
Yeah.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:45.039
Who's afraid to take another step?
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:48.159
Who is frozen and taking another step?
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:53.440
Um, yeah, it's tough.
01:01:53.679 --> 01:02:07.840
Um, and I know we all felt like that because it's like that first month is the hardest because everything that you do, you're doing for the first time alone, you know, and you're still going through things alone.
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:08.239
Yeah.
01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:10.800
This is the first time that you're doing this without Ken.
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:17.920
Or this is the first time that I'm doing something without him or calling him, like the first snap of the Broncos game.
01:02:18.159 --> 01:02:20.480
It's like, that's gonna be terrible.
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:25.679
Like, I um but you can't let it paralyze you either.
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:27.679
And that's the thing, I'm gonna watch it.
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:29.199
Right, and it's gonna suck.
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:32.480
And it's I think knowing it's gonna suck helps.
01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:33.280
Yeah.
01:02:33.440 --> 01:02:38.159
Um, and I think the other thing is just allowing yourself to change.
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:39.760
Um Right.
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:46.960
That's one of the hardest parts to know like I am not, nor can I ever be that person ever again.
01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:47.840
Yeah.
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:51.360
Um, and I am not that same person.
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:56.239
I have grown up significantly in this last summer.
01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:56.880
Sure.
01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:12.960
Um, from the way that I've acted, not only from like losing Ken, but now being a CFI, like you change your who you are and everything, and I would catch some shit up there because it's like you're no fun anymore.
01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:17.519
But at the same time, it's like the well, this isn't that's not fun to me.
01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:19.599
That's not important to me anymore.
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:22.079
Like sorry, my life is different now.
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:23.679
It's different now, yeah.
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:37.840
And be different, allow it to change you and know like if it is for the better, I guess, is also a caveat there, right?
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:42.480
Like, don't don't allow yourself to change for the worse.
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:47.280
And what is important about that is that you keep and and truly okay.
01:03:47.840 --> 01:04:04.159
When you are ready to take those next steps, or you're or you're scared of taking those next steps, do it with somebody, do it with family by your side, do it with your friends by your side, because it makes it so much easier.
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:04.719
Sure.
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:08.159
So my phone died, but we're hooked back up now.
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.519
And it's funny because I just have one more question for you.
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:11.920
Yes.
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:17.440
So we talk about, we talked about how we're not the same person anymore.
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:23.360
What do you want to say to the woman that you are right now?
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:25.519
Oh, that's sweet.
01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:34.239
Um this one you might actually be.
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:36.320
Um, I rolled that.
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:37.519
I know I've said this a lot.
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:49.199
But um, and something that I thought would come up, but it never did, um, was our differences in the grief process due to me having faith and you not.
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:50.159
Oh, that's true.
01:04:50.239 --> 01:04:51.280
I did not bring that up.
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.400
Yeah, so that that that's something that's a little different.
01:04:54.559 --> 01:05:06.480
Um, and I think for me is to, for the person that I am right now and the woman that I am right now, is to keep my relationship with Jesus very close.
01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:20.400
Um and to, I know it's not who it's funny that you think I would eye roll it that when I feel like I've always been like respectful of your thing.
01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:23.440
I've been very respectful, but we don't talk about it very much.
01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:24.400
We don't.
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:27.360
We don't talk about our differences in that very much.
01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:34.239
Um, so for me right now, over the summer, I have not been going to church.
01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:51.679
I do still pray a lot, but um, so moving forward, keep my relationship with Jesus very close um and to to continue to allow myself to grow.
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:58.239
Like be comfortable with continue growing and be confident in who I am.
01:05:58.480 --> 01:05:59.440
Okay, so I I
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:01.920
Actually, I have one more question now.
01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:09.280
Did have you found it difficult to keep that relationship after such a tragedy?
01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:11.039
Were you angry?
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:11.840
Yeah.
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:13.840
I mean, that's the classic stuff.
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:18.000
Um, everybody goes through that, I think, that has that relationship.
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:24.960
I think it's very rare that somebody truly feels like, oh, oh, I lost someone close and it's God's will.
01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:26.159
Like no one says that.
01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:27.679
It's always like you though.
01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:30.880
Well, like, yes, I think most people is like, no, no, no.
01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:33.360
They are like, oh, you lost somebody's clothes.
01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:34.719
However, it is God's will.
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:36.320
Like you have to remember that.
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:42.960
But when it comes, when it comes close to home, I think a lot of times people do get that questioning.
01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:54.079
And I talked with my pastor and we had that conversation of like Jesus does not expect us to question him, undoubtedly.
01:06:54.639 --> 01:06:56.000
Doubts happen.
01:06:56.239 --> 01:07:08.880
Um, there is so many stories in the Bible that talks about somebody that questions Jesus but continues to follow their faith, and that leads them to righteousness.
01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:14.559
Um and getting yourself back on that track is what is important.
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:27.920
Um being uncertain, being angry, um, and allowing yourself to feel those feelings and letting them go.
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:29.679
So you're definitely letting it go.
01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:30.000
Yeah.
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:31.119
I let it go.
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:59.920
And I am just trying to live in a way that breeds gratefulness of being alive, of having you here, um, of understanding all the privileges that I do have, um, and being at the same time mourning what I could have had.
01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:07.280
Um, but gratitude makes you a good person.
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:11.519
I I truly think that gratitude for everything that we have in life.
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.800
There's no way that you can be grateful for what you have and have a bad day.
01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:18.000
Got you.
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:21.119
Well, I'm sure we'll be checking in with you more.
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:23.680
You've given up to talk so much.
01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:25.039
Love you more than you could ever know.
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:26.479
Love you so much, Mong.
01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:28.319
Thank you for doing this with me.
01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:28.960
Absolutely.
01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:30.560
Hope you found this therapeutic.
01:08:31.039 --> 01:08:36.880
Honestly, I was honesty is our our biggest policy.
01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:40.239
I was a little like skeptical of doing it, right?
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:51.840
It's like, well, I don't really like want everybody to know kind of what I've done and everything, but honestly, I found this to be more great for us.
01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:54.000
Like I felt like it's more for us.
01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:56.159
Or for me, I guess.
01:08:56.319 --> 01:09:05.439
I mean, I've found I've able to get things out that I haven't been able to, and to hear more about you and everything.
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:09.840
So I I'm very grateful for this chance to talk with you.
01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:14.000
And I hope somebody finds something great in it.
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:17.039
But um, even if you don't, I had a great time.
01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:17.760
Good.
01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:18.880
So love you.
01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:21.119
Um, yeah, I love you too.
01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:24.159
We miss you, Dad.
01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:25.199
We do.
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:33.039
I think that Liv was right when she said that conversation ended up being for both of us, too.
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:43.680
I went into thinking I was going to interview my daughter, and somewhere along the way, we just became a mom and kid having a conversation that maybe we needed to have.
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.680
There were things she told me that were hard to hear.
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:54.319
At one point, Liv told me that there had been things that I said in my own grief that hurt her.
01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:56.000
I didn't mean to hurt her.
01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:00.159
I would never intentionally diminish what she was going through.
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:05.920
But here's the thing: my intention doesn't change her experience.
01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:18.640
As parents, I think sometimes our instinct is to explain, to say, oh, that's not what I meant, to remind our kids how much we love them and hope that somehow that makes the hurt go away.
01:10:19.039 --> 01:10:24.079
But our kids can know we love them and still be hurt by something we've said.
01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:28.560
And we can hear that as parents and apologize.
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:35.920
We can learn something about them that we didn't know before, and we can keep loving each other and moving forward.
01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:39.119
I think that's what happened during this conversation.
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:46.560
Because while Olivia and I lost the same person on the same night, we did not lose the same relationship.
01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:48.720
I lost my husband.
01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:50.560
She lost a dad.
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:56.000
And we're both allowed to grieve what we lost without measuring one against the other.
01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:00.479
There was another thing Olivia said that I keep coming back to.
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:03.039
Allow yourself to change.
01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:14.079
I think sometimes we're so desperate to get back to who we were before something happened that we forget that that person probably doesn't exist anymore.
01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:22.079
As we've discussed before, braving the bridge isn't about reaching the other side as the same person who stepped onto it.
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:26.560
It's allowing yourself to meet the person you're becoming along the way.
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:31.039
Liv is becoming someone different, and so am I.
01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:36.479
And somehow we're learning how to know each other again as the people we are now.
01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:42.239
I'm incredibly grateful that she trusted me enough to have this conversation publicly.
01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:50.800
But I'm even more grateful for the things we said to each other when the microphones were on that maybe we hadn't figured out how to say when the microphones were off.
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:54.159
So maybe that's what I'll leave you with this week.
01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:57.840
Have the conversation even if it's uncomfortable.
01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:02.319
Listen when someone you love tells you something that's hard to hear.
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:04.560
Talk about the person you miss.
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:07.279
Say the thing you've been carrying.
01:12:07.600 --> 01:12:12.960
Because sometimes moving forward just means taking the next step together.
01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:15.199
This is Braving the Bridge.
01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:23.039
If something in today's conversation resonated with you, or if you have a story about a bridge you've had to cross, I'd love to hear from you.
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:26.960
You can email me at heather at braving the bridge.com.
01:12:27.279 --> 01:12:34.239
And if you know someone who might need this conversation, maybe your own kid, share this episode with them.
01:12:34.479 --> 01:12:38.560
We're off next week while I take my first solo trip.
01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:42.479
Make sure you're following Braving the Bridge on social media to follow along.
01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:44.560
And I'll meet you back here next time.
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:45.920
Thanks for listening.