Jackie: Hello and welcome to Bop Boundaries, where we explore what it means to be human in the age of AI. And today we're talking about Tesla's new cyber cab. Like Waymo, Tesla relies heavily on AI and machine learning to power autonomous driving. While it may look like a competition between two robotaxi companies, the bigger question might be: are we really debating transportation or are we debating how AI should operate in the physical world and earn our trust? And as always, I'm happy to be here and be joined by my awesome co host Katie Wilson. Hey there, Katie.
Katie Wilson: Hey, good to be here. Looking forward to talking about this topic.
Jackie: Yeah, me too. So let's dive in. depending on who you ask, the Tesla Cybercab launch was either a glimpse into the future of autonomous transportation or another example of Tesla promising sometimes more than it can deliver. One thing is clear though, Wall Street wasn't totally convinced. the the launch was in Austin, and so this Austin event felt surprisingly kind of subdued compared to Tesla's typically High energy showcases, and perhaps most notably, Elon wasn't there, and probably a good choice in this moment for the brand. For a company whose long-term story has been built around AI, robotics, and autonomy, the absence of its most visible champion raised almost as many questions as the event itself. And for many, the event was able to stand more on its own, I think possibly because of it.
Katie Wilson: All right, well, let's talk about the AI side of things. Both companies are relying heavily on AI to make autonomous driving possible. The bigger difference here is how they use AI and what they use it with. So Tesla is definitely betting more heavily on AI-driven computer vision as their primary way its vehicle perceives the world. The CyberCab uses cameras and neural networks to interpret its surroundings and make driving decisions. Tesla's philosophy is essentially that a sufficiently advanced AI system. Should be able to learn to drive by seeing the world much like a human does. Waymo is taking a very different approach. It relies extensively on AI, but combines that intelligence with a broader set of sensors, including lighter, radar, and cameras. So those different technologies give the Waymo driver multiple ways to perceive what's happening around the vehicle in real time. AI then processes all of that information to understand the environment and predict what other road users might do and determine. How the vehicle should respond. So that's where this comparison is worth examining, the differences there. Tesla is essentially asking AI to do more of the sensing and interpretation itself. And Waymo is giving AI more types of inputs and information to work.
Jackie: Yeah, to me I feel like I like the Waymo approach, but you know,
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: I'm not an engineer. So I don't really know. But I guess as a consumer I trust the Waymo approach. But you know, T B D is many products using AI.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, and I appreciate the the sensors and the the different inputs, let's say. Seems like it's safer, but you know, I haven't and then I've also been in a Tesla on driving mode and it feels safe too. So I feel like it it really to be seen on what's gonna be a better use. Yeah, and one so one of these approaches puts enormous emphasis on computer vision and neural network. That's the Tesla side. The other combines AI with a physical sensor architecture designed to provide redundancy. neither means there's like more or less AI. They're just two different philosophies on how AI should interact with the physical world. That difference also affects how each company thinks about scale. So Tesla's vision-centric approach could potentially make autonomous vehicles simpler and less expensive to manufacture, because it doesn't require the same amount and collection of specialized sensors like the Waymo has. That matters if the goal is to eventually put autonomous vehicles into a vast number of cars, which seems to be, you know, Tesla's Tesla's goal here. The cyber cab is designed from the beginning around that autonomous model rather than adapting a conventional vehicle with a human driver in mind, which is what Waymo does. So WayMine Waymo, meanwhile, is investing heavily in AI beyond what happens inside the vehicle. So its newer models work includes a Waymo world model, which can generate high fidelity simulated driving scenarios using multiple types of sensor data. The idea is to give its autonomous system more opportunities to experience and learn from the situations that might be rare or difficult to encounter on a real roads. In other words, AI isn't just helping Waymo drive the car. It's helping them create these environments in which the driving system can be trained and tested. So
Jackie: Hm.
Katie Wilson: you could say the robo taxi race isn't simply about who can build a car that drives itself. it's becoming a competition over how AI learns to understand the physical world around it. Do we give an AI system more sensors and layers of redundancy? Or do you try to build a powerful enough vision system that it can interpret the world primarily through cameras in real time? Do you train AI mostly on what happens in the real world or increasingly through simulated worlds? And maybe most importantly, how much autonomy are we comfortable giving an AI system when it decides, when its decisions have physical consequences on the road? that makes cyber cabin Waymo interesting for a reason that goes beyond transportation. They're effectively testing two different Bae ideas about how AI itself works. Can intelligence alone be enough? Or does trustworthy intelligence require more information, more inputs, more redundancy, and more layers of verification?
Jackie: Yeah, again, I just start leaning towards I feel like the more data the better. And
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: I'm not an engineer, but I I don't know, the more data the better. But so I agree with all that framing you just did and how we should all look at this. It's really interesting. it ki and it kind of leads into another piece of this that I think is really important, an important goal around adoption and long and longevity when you're building these products, which is trust, which we talk about a lot. one key feature to note is that the cyber cab doesn't have a steering wheel or pedals because it's designed to drive itself. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into Tesla just hours after this event in Austin when they put their cyber cabs on the streets. It's created an important regulatory question. Federal vehicle safety rules have traditionally assumed that a human driver is sitting behind the wheel. So we have these laws in place based on human drivers of these vehicles with controls like a steering wheel and brake pedal available if something goes wrong. But the Department of Transportation recently proposed removing some of those requirements for vehicles specifically designed to operate autonomously. just want to know who's making these decisions for all of us, right? Ugh, like we don't have enough time in the world to check this out. My goodness.
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: So Tesla chose to self-certify the cyber cab, which is the standard process automakers use for traditional vehicles too. The NHTSA investigation puts that approach under a much closer microscope, particularly because we're talking about a vehicle where the human isn't just being asked to trust the technology. they now don't even have the traditional controls to take over if they lose that trust. Yeah, and that brings up the question: how can Tesla self, what is it called? I mean, you know, self-certify. Yeah.
Katie Wilson: self certify and like what defines what a car is in that case, you know?
Jackie: I right. Yeah. I mean, okay. So we gotta examine these laws, everyone.
Katie Wilson: Okay.
Jackie: So yeah, that's the overarching concern that comes up from an AI perspective, you know, a fully AI AI approach to this, no matter what the product is. where many of us are asking on all these AI rooted products, even if the technology is capable of driving safely, People still have to feel comfortable surrendering total control to these products. For
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: some people, removing the steering wheel and pedals may feel like the ultimate expression of confidence in AI, and maybe they like that. For others, it may feel like a step too far. If something unexpected happens, there isn't a human sitting there with the traditional way to intervene. that's a possible possible need that we might have. and there's this psychological gap between, you know, AI can do this and we're excited about that. And I and I trust AI to do this with my life, you know, is something totally different. And one of the biggest challenges that maybe autonomous vehicles might have to overcome, especially this new one by Tesla.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, we talk a lot about building trust with consumers. And I do think there's a trust factor when I get in a Waymo and I know it's a traditional car and that I could go behind the wheel or I could hit a hit a brake. I can unlock my doors. You know, like all of those things people are are are familiar with what the traditional concept of a car or vehicle is. Versus if you put some some me in something with wheels with, you know, no way to unlock, no driver no no driving steering wheel, no brakes. Now what am I in? I'm I'm I'm just in a box with wheels. This feels a little more scary, even though it could be tested to be just as safe, right? There's this idea of like having the option for human intervention feels like it's important for people right now.
Jackie: Yeah, maybe it's just a psychological transition to have
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: those in place. Yeah. So the reality is that there is a precedent for the NHTSA investigating new autonomous vehicle technologies. This isn't simply about Tesla being Tesla. It's part of a much larger question regulators, automakers, and consumers are all trying to answer, which is what should the safety rules look like when the human is low no longer the driver? yeah. I wanna know. I feel like
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: we need to define this all together. You know, because ultimately the robo taxi race isn't just about who can make AI drive a car. I hope it's not about that. sometimes it is right now in corporate America. It's
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: just like, can you have a headline that talks about how amazing you're leveraging AI? And I don't think we should be doing this with robotaxis. You you know, it's about who can convince people that an AI system deserves to be trusted when The stakes are incredibly high, especially, you know, us as mothers putting our children in these cars potentially. trust is going to be is a big deal. And, you know, women spend a lot of money on these products. So they really needed to convince us, Katie, right?
Katie Wilson: Yes. Well, let's talk about some real life examples with the CyberCab. So Austin is the first and only city where cyber cab rides are presently available to the general public. You can use the RoboTaxi app to hail one, much like you would a Lyft or Uber. You get into a gold Tesla with CyberCab in an edgy handwriting font appearing on the ground as the door opens. And it's also on the driver's side door itself. No surprise there. I t I you know I took one experience by Motor Trend on their Instagram profile. So you can see this, and we'll include the link in the show notes. It seems like a pretty smooth experience, you know, similar to Waymo, which I've done before. So you can see from this reel what it looks like to actually go into the cyber cab. a few other details about the experience. The vehicle will start configuring its cabin to the settings you've pre-selected in the profile, including air conditioning temperatures, seats going to the position you prefer. And audio and video entertainment. Waymo does something similar where you can like choose your music and your temperature and all that. Your cyber cab will also display a color or center external lights, and on the screen inside that matches the color shown in the app. So, like Jackie mentioned before, there's no steering wheel inside the cyber cab, no accelerator brake pedal either. Just a large open footwell covered in gray carpet with familiar touch screen display mounted on the dash. Now, the Cybercab won't start the ride until you fashion your seatbelts and push the start ride button on the touch screen. One rider described a quirk about their ride as during my rides, it didn't drop me off exactly at my destination. I was always a three-plus-minute walk away. That's far. This was annoying
Jackie: Yeah.
Katie Wilson: because it was super humid in Austin with a sprinkle of rain. So we're gonna see how this product develops and what cities are next based on this experience. But Austin is definitely the test case right now. and it definitely sounds to me a little different than getting in a Waymo. It's almost like you're getting in a ride at Disneyland or something with like no steering wheel, no thing, and like you're trusting it to go around. You know, Austin's relatively flat, but it is a pretty dense and heavily populated city. The downtown particularly is busy, so it'll be interesting to see how this test starts to work and if other cities okay it.
Jackie: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they have some work to do. So, but but I really liked how you explained that experience. So, you know, maybe we'll try it out someday.
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: Yeah, so that was great hearing all those details. And now the big question behind all of this is how you convince people to get into a vehicle when they're handing control over to an AI system, essentially. This also feels like a different moment than when Waymo first launched. AI wasn't as controversial at the time. And Tesla's brand itself used to carry more trust with the public than it does today. We'll be keeping an eye out to see how much of this comes down to technology versus trust and what other cities they might drop these taxis in next.
Katie Wilson: Yes.
Jackie: All right, so let's move on to our love it or leave it segment. First up, Hype Bae features Vivian Wilson in an anti-technology fashion campaign. Hype Bae is a women's fashion and culture publication from Hype Beast, covering contemporary fashion streetwear, beauty, and culture while highlighting women shaping those spaces. Hype Bae recently spotlighted Vivian, who is Elon Musk's daughter, in DeSigwal's Fall Winter 2026 Born to Disobey campaign, which uses a vibrant interaction between Wilson and a robot to explore individuality, creativity, and staying human in an increasingly AI-driven world. She confidently states in one of the clips of the campaign, he was designed to obey, pointing to the robot, and I wasn't. I love that. so red flag and green flag on this campaign. What do you think of it, Katie?
Katie Wilson: I think it looked beautiful. She looks great. It's it's you know, it's that edge of controversial and technology. she's, you know, famously, you know, very critical of her father, and then they have a a strange relationship. So I think, you know, there's a tongue-in-cheek and a poke at that too, being in his investment in robotics and and all of this. So I think it's a it's a great idea for Dessie Gall. I think it's a it's a nice collaboration and and the photography and it was really cool too. So I'm a green flag for it. Go Vivian.
Jackie: Yeah. Yeah, green flag too. It was well done creatively. just the art direction was fabulous. it's always funny to watch a robot fall down. it's it's like a cheap joke, but I like it. I mean, I robotics is totally fun, but I mean, it you know, come on, we we're all really valuing our human creativity in this moment. And
Katie Wilson: Yes.
Jackie: so yeah. green flag on that one. I liked it.
Katie Wilson: We loved it. Okay, up next, I'm super excited about this new documentary. You can see everything, which follows Elizabeth Holmes in the 34 days before she reported to prison for her Theranos fraud conviction, offering unusually intimate access to her home, life, and perspective, with Nathan Fielder directing. So it seems to be a broader exploration of perception, deception, and how Holmes understands her own story. So red flag or green flag for spotlighting a figure centered around so much deception in the startup world? like are we highlighting her too much? Or can it still teach us something about how easily ambition can cross the line into poor judgment?
Jackie: I mean Green Flag 'cause I'm gonna watch it. It's like a pop culture story at this point, and clips they're showing of her staring at him very deeply with a very tight
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: shot just intrigues me. mean I mean I guess maybe a yellow flag on continuing to giving the spotlight around deception, but it's entertaining, so I guess green flag.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, I'm a total green flag. you know, I think having Nathan Fielder direct this and a co-direct it, there's another director, Openheimer, as well. but I think, you know, his take on things, if fol folks aren't familiar, I would definitely like watch a little Nathan for You, watch the rehearsal, his other show. But he has like a very meta take on documentary and first-person narrative. it's like a very much cringe-like fact, like you're describing, like the way he's looking. But what was interesting to me in the clip is he looks a little scared. And he's usually the one with like the poker face and kind of making people feel uncomfortable. So the fact that she's making him, who's like the king of cringe, feel uncomfortable, I think says a lot in that moment that that is intriguing. you know, I loved all the Theranos podcasts, the books, the series
Jackie: Yeah.
Katie Wilson: with Amanda Seifelt. She's fantastic. If you that's another great primer before this comes out. And she knows she's been living in San Diego, which is close to where I am. And she actually married an heir to like the Bahia and all these like popular San Diego hotels. who's very wealthy. And so he's in this as well as their fan and they have two young children. So it's just super fascinating to me that like, you know, she's continuing to live her life as if nothing's happening. I'm very interested into getting a slice into her you know, perception of what's happening, whether that's like fake or real, I think is a lot to be questioned. I think it's gonna be a interesting take and people are all already buzzing that it's gonna be like Oscar worthy for either for documentary. So I I'm super excited for this. but yes, I would say watch some other stuff before to get familiar with Nathan Fielder or the Theranos story, probably both, so that you're well prepared going into it.
Jackie: Yeah, I mean, you know, us both being in the startup world where innovation at all costs sometimes results in things like this. It's gonna be really interesting to watch, right? All right, so let's talk about
Katie Wilson: yeah. Totally. And she's a character.
Jackie: one more. can stepping away from startup life and into the world of art and community help someone reconnect with their true self? A former tech CEO, James Gwertzman, spent years in the world of startups and venture back growth before dedicating himself to building the 2026 Burning Man Temple. One of the event's most symbolic and community-driven projects. so red flag or green flag on this dusty desert quest for purpose and self-reflection, where on one hand it can sound inspiring, but it also makes me wonder if whether personal transformation is easier to pursue at this venue when you have the time and resources. You have to have a lot of resources to actually step away from your High pressure career. when for most people, this can feel a little bit out of reach. So many people are busy and may not have the resources to go do something like this. what makes it even more interesting, I guess, is that Burning Man, you know, it's evolved so much. It was originally affordable.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, totally.
Jackie: It wanted to be affordable. It was essentially, you know, a very socialist type of approach and built around a radically non-commercial philosophy. And today, you know, it just kind of feels like the people most able to participate are often those who have found success within a very these very commercial systems. that, you know, the burn burning man really just was rooted in and in the antithesis of that. So anyway, red flag or green flag on this story or, you know, whatever you what do you think of this?
Katie Wilson: Well, I'm a little biased. I'm a red flag on Burning Man in general. Like it's not my scene. It's never been, even from its organic like heydays within tech. Always a little skeptical or faux you know, folks. But you know, if that's your thing, go for it. But I do think it comes from a place of privilege to be able to go out in the desert and kind of like, you know, not bring anything with you and trade and like that's kinda was the original ethos. And now it, you you have Bethany Frankel running a luxury RV and, you know, f
Jackie: no.
Katie Wilson: you know, d doing reels live from Burning Man. So
Jackie: She killed it.
Katie Wilson: Very different place than where it started. Another great documentary that's on HBO is about the history of Burning Man. and I think it's called The Man Will Burn, but it's really interesting and goes into like kind of the dynamics around the founders and what their ethos was, how they kind of split and fractured, like the danger of i involved in running this event, especially in the early days. And we even saw this year a ton of deaths at Burning Man. So and you know, with the weather and also drug use and other things. So I think You know, I I'm always interested in the concept of Burning Man. I think it's interesting. I found the documentary super interesting, but not for me. I'm more of a Coachella girly, like a live music person. Don't want to be in the dusty desert. I do think, like, you know, it has some good origins in what it was like trying to be, but I think it's veered pretty far away from that now.
Jackie: Yeah, I hear all of that. I'm gonna go red flag on the dust and
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: once Bethany Frankl showed up and TikToked all day long from there, it's yeah, I mean, how
Katie Wilson: This jumped. Yeah, the shark.
Jackie: could you even green flag this? So I'll leave it at that. All right, so as we wrap up today, seeing AI move from our screens into the physical world, especially in something as essential as transportation, makes this a conversation that affects all of us. It's one thing to trust AI with a recommendation for your email draft. It's another thing to trust it with decisions that impact our safety. As these technologies become part of everyday life, the real challenge may be less about what AI can do and more about how it needs to build trust with all of us and keep us all in the loop on the decision making would be good too. And how accountability is important and human oversight is needed for people to embrace it. So good seeing you today, Katie. Just a reminder, where can everyone find you?
Katie Wilson: You can find me on LinkedIn at Katie Wilson or Sirius Moonlight Consulting, both on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can also subscribe to my newsletter, Sales Isn't a Dirty Word on Beehive. And how about you, Jackie?
Jackie: Yeah, please find me on LinkedIn at Jackie Gutierrez and on Instagram and TikTok at Business Growth Gal and follow Bot Boundaries at Bop Boundaries on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Leave us a review. We're available on all platforms and also on YouTube. Bye, Katie.
Katie Wilson: Bye, see ya.
Katie Wilson: Hey, good to be here. Looking forward to talking about this topic.
Jackie: Yeah, me too. So let's dive in. depending on who you ask, the Tesla Cybercab launch was either a glimpse into the future of autonomous transportation or another example of Tesla promising sometimes more than it can deliver. One thing is clear though, Wall Street wasn't totally convinced. the the launch was in Austin, and so this Austin event felt surprisingly kind of subdued compared to Tesla's typically High energy showcases, and perhaps most notably, Elon wasn't there, and probably a good choice in this moment for the brand. For a company whose long-term story has been built around AI, robotics, and autonomy, the absence of its most visible champion raised almost as many questions as the event itself. And for many, the event was able to stand more on its own, I think possibly because of it.
Katie Wilson: All right, well, let's talk about the AI side of things. Both companies are relying heavily on AI to make autonomous driving possible. The bigger difference here is how they use AI and what they use it with. So Tesla is definitely betting more heavily on AI-driven computer vision as their primary way its vehicle perceives the world. The CyberCab uses cameras and neural networks to interpret its surroundings and make driving decisions. Tesla's philosophy is essentially that a sufficiently advanced AI system. Should be able to learn to drive by seeing the world much like a human does. Waymo is taking a very different approach. It relies extensively on AI, but combines that intelligence with a broader set of sensors, including lighter, radar, and cameras. So those different technologies give the Waymo driver multiple ways to perceive what's happening around the vehicle in real time. AI then processes all of that information to understand the environment and predict what other road users might do and determine. How the vehicle should respond. So that's where this comparison is worth examining, the differences there. Tesla is essentially asking AI to do more of the sensing and interpretation itself. And Waymo is giving AI more types of inputs and information to work.
Jackie: Yeah, to me I feel like I like the Waymo approach, but you know,
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: I'm not an engineer. So I don't really know. But I guess as a consumer I trust the Waymo approach. But you know, T B D is many products using AI.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, and I appreciate the the sensors and the the different inputs, let's say. Seems like it's safer, but you know, I haven't and then I've also been in a Tesla on driving mode and it feels safe too. So I feel like it it really to be seen on what's gonna be a better use. Yeah, and one so one of these approaches puts enormous emphasis on computer vision and neural network. That's the Tesla side. The other combines AI with a physical sensor architecture designed to provide redundancy. neither means there's like more or less AI. They're just two different philosophies on how AI should interact with the physical world. That difference also affects how each company thinks about scale. So Tesla's vision-centric approach could potentially make autonomous vehicles simpler and less expensive to manufacture, because it doesn't require the same amount and collection of specialized sensors like the Waymo has. That matters if the goal is to eventually put autonomous vehicles into a vast number of cars, which seems to be, you know, Tesla's Tesla's goal here. The cyber cab is designed from the beginning around that autonomous model rather than adapting a conventional vehicle with a human driver in mind, which is what Waymo does. So WayMine Waymo, meanwhile, is investing heavily in AI beyond what happens inside the vehicle. So its newer models work includes a Waymo world model, which can generate high fidelity simulated driving scenarios using multiple types of sensor data. The idea is to give its autonomous system more opportunities to experience and learn from the situations that might be rare or difficult to encounter on a real roads. In other words, AI isn't just helping Waymo drive the car. It's helping them create these environments in which the driving system can be trained and tested. So
Jackie: Hm.
Katie Wilson: you could say the robo taxi race isn't simply about who can build a car that drives itself. it's becoming a competition over how AI learns to understand the physical world around it. Do we give an AI system more sensors and layers of redundancy? Or do you try to build a powerful enough vision system that it can interpret the world primarily through cameras in real time? Do you train AI mostly on what happens in the real world or increasingly through simulated worlds? And maybe most importantly, how much autonomy are we comfortable giving an AI system when it decides, when its decisions have physical consequences on the road? that makes cyber cabin Waymo interesting for a reason that goes beyond transportation. They're effectively testing two different Bae ideas about how AI itself works. Can intelligence alone be enough? Or does trustworthy intelligence require more information, more inputs, more redundancy, and more layers of verification?
Jackie: Yeah, again, I just start leaning towards I feel like the more data the better. And
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: I'm not an engineer, but I I don't know, the more data the better. But so I agree with all that framing you just did and how we should all look at this. It's really interesting. it ki and it kind of leads into another piece of this that I think is really important, an important goal around adoption and long and longevity when you're building these products, which is trust, which we talk about a lot. one key feature to note is that the cyber cab doesn't have a steering wheel or pedals because it's designed to drive itself. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into Tesla just hours after this event in Austin when they put their cyber cabs on the streets. It's created an important regulatory question. Federal vehicle safety rules have traditionally assumed that a human driver is sitting behind the wheel. So we have these laws in place based on human drivers of these vehicles with controls like a steering wheel and brake pedal available if something goes wrong. But the Department of Transportation recently proposed removing some of those requirements for vehicles specifically designed to operate autonomously. just want to know who's making these decisions for all of us, right? Ugh, like we don't have enough time in the world to check this out. My goodness.
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: So Tesla chose to self-certify the cyber cab, which is the standard process automakers use for traditional vehicles too. The NHTSA investigation puts that approach under a much closer microscope, particularly because we're talking about a vehicle where the human isn't just being asked to trust the technology. they now don't even have the traditional controls to take over if they lose that trust. Yeah, and that brings up the question: how can Tesla self, what is it called? I mean, you know, self-certify. Yeah.
Katie Wilson: self certify and like what defines what a car is in that case, you know?
Jackie: I right. Yeah. I mean, okay. So we gotta examine these laws, everyone.
Katie Wilson: Okay.
Jackie: So yeah, that's the overarching concern that comes up from an AI perspective, you know, a fully AI AI approach to this, no matter what the product is. where many of us are asking on all these AI rooted products, even if the technology is capable of driving safely, People still have to feel comfortable surrendering total control to these products. For
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: some people, removing the steering wheel and pedals may feel like the ultimate expression of confidence in AI, and maybe they like that. For others, it may feel like a step too far. If something unexpected happens, there isn't a human sitting there with the traditional way to intervene. that's a possible possible need that we might have. and there's this psychological gap between, you know, AI can do this and we're excited about that. And I and I trust AI to do this with my life, you know, is something totally different. And one of the biggest challenges that maybe autonomous vehicles might have to overcome, especially this new one by Tesla.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, we talk a lot about building trust with consumers. And I do think there's a trust factor when I get in a Waymo and I know it's a traditional car and that I could go behind the wheel or I could hit a hit a brake. I can unlock my doors. You know, like all of those things people are are are familiar with what the traditional concept of a car or vehicle is. Versus if you put some some me in something with wheels with, you know, no way to unlock, no driver no no driving steering wheel, no brakes. Now what am I in? I'm I'm I'm just in a box with wheels. This feels a little more scary, even though it could be tested to be just as safe, right? There's this idea of like having the option for human intervention feels like it's important for people right now.
Jackie: Yeah, maybe it's just a psychological transition to have
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: those in place. Yeah. So the reality is that there is a precedent for the NHTSA investigating new autonomous vehicle technologies. This isn't simply about Tesla being Tesla. It's part of a much larger question regulators, automakers, and consumers are all trying to answer, which is what should the safety rules look like when the human is low no longer the driver? yeah. I wanna know. I feel like
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: we need to define this all together. You know, because ultimately the robo taxi race isn't just about who can make AI drive a car. I hope it's not about that. sometimes it is right now in corporate America. It's
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: just like, can you have a headline that talks about how amazing you're leveraging AI? And I don't think we should be doing this with robotaxis. You you know, it's about who can convince people that an AI system deserves to be trusted when The stakes are incredibly high, especially, you know, us as mothers putting our children in these cars potentially. trust is going to be is a big deal. And, you know, women spend a lot of money on these products. So they really needed to convince us, Katie, right?
Katie Wilson: Yes. Well, let's talk about some real life examples with the CyberCab. So Austin is the first and only city where cyber cab rides are presently available to the general public. You can use the RoboTaxi app to hail one, much like you would a Lyft or Uber. You get into a gold Tesla with CyberCab in an edgy handwriting font appearing on the ground as the door opens. And it's also on the driver's side door itself. No surprise there. I t I you know I took one experience by Motor Trend on their Instagram profile. So you can see this, and we'll include the link in the show notes. It seems like a pretty smooth experience, you know, similar to Waymo, which I've done before. So you can see from this reel what it looks like to actually go into the cyber cab. a few other details about the experience. The vehicle will start configuring its cabin to the settings you've pre-selected in the profile, including air conditioning temperatures, seats going to the position you prefer. And audio and video entertainment. Waymo does something similar where you can like choose your music and your temperature and all that. Your cyber cab will also display a color or center external lights, and on the screen inside that matches the color shown in the app. So, like Jackie mentioned before, there's no steering wheel inside the cyber cab, no accelerator brake pedal either. Just a large open footwell covered in gray carpet with familiar touch screen display mounted on the dash. Now, the Cybercab won't start the ride until you fashion your seatbelts and push the start ride button on the touch screen. One rider described a quirk about their ride as during my rides, it didn't drop me off exactly at my destination. I was always a three-plus-minute walk away. That's far. This was annoying
Jackie: Yeah.
Katie Wilson: because it was super humid in Austin with a sprinkle of rain. So we're gonna see how this product develops and what cities are next based on this experience. But Austin is definitely the test case right now. and it definitely sounds to me a little different than getting in a Waymo. It's almost like you're getting in a ride at Disneyland or something with like no steering wheel, no thing, and like you're trusting it to go around. You know, Austin's relatively flat, but it is a pretty dense and heavily populated city. The downtown particularly is busy, so it'll be interesting to see how this test starts to work and if other cities okay it.
Jackie: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they have some work to do. So, but but I really liked how you explained that experience. So, you know, maybe we'll try it out someday.
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: Yeah, so that was great hearing all those details. And now the big question behind all of this is how you convince people to get into a vehicle when they're handing control over to an AI system, essentially. This also feels like a different moment than when Waymo first launched. AI wasn't as controversial at the time. And Tesla's brand itself used to carry more trust with the public than it does today. We'll be keeping an eye out to see how much of this comes down to technology versus trust and what other cities they might drop these taxis in next.
Katie Wilson: Yes.
Jackie: All right, so let's move on to our love it or leave it segment. First up, Hype Bae features Vivian Wilson in an anti-technology fashion campaign. Hype Bae is a women's fashion and culture publication from Hype Beast, covering contemporary fashion streetwear, beauty, and culture while highlighting women shaping those spaces. Hype Bae recently spotlighted Vivian, who is Elon Musk's daughter, in DeSigwal's Fall Winter 2026 Born to Disobey campaign, which uses a vibrant interaction between Wilson and a robot to explore individuality, creativity, and staying human in an increasingly AI-driven world. She confidently states in one of the clips of the campaign, he was designed to obey, pointing to the robot, and I wasn't. I love that. so red flag and green flag on this campaign. What do you think of it, Katie?
Katie Wilson: I think it looked beautiful. She looks great. It's it's you know, it's that edge of controversial and technology. she's, you know, famously, you know, very critical of her father, and then they have a a strange relationship. So I think, you know, there's a tongue-in-cheek and a poke at that too, being in his investment in robotics and and all of this. So I think it's a it's a great idea for Dessie Gall. I think it's a it's a nice collaboration and and the photography and it was really cool too. So I'm a green flag for it. Go Vivian.
Jackie: Yeah. Yeah, green flag too. It was well done creatively. just the art direction was fabulous. it's always funny to watch a robot fall down. it's it's like a cheap joke, but I like it. I mean, I robotics is totally fun, but I mean, it you know, come on, we we're all really valuing our human creativity in this moment. And
Katie Wilson: Yes.
Jackie: so yeah. green flag on that one. I liked it.
Katie Wilson: We loved it. Okay, up next, I'm super excited about this new documentary. You can see everything, which follows Elizabeth Holmes in the 34 days before she reported to prison for her Theranos fraud conviction, offering unusually intimate access to her home, life, and perspective, with Nathan Fielder directing. So it seems to be a broader exploration of perception, deception, and how Holmes understands her own story. So red flag or green flag for spotlighting a figure centered around so much deception in the startup world? like are we highlighting her too much? Or can it still teach us something about how easily ambition can cross the line into poor judgment?
Jackie: I mean Green Flag 'cause I'm gonna watch it. It's like a pop culture story at this point, and clips they're showing of her staring at him very deeply with a very tight
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: shot just intrigues me. mean I mean I guess maybe a yellow flag on continuing to giving the spotlight around deception, but it's entertaining, so I guess green flag.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, I'm a total green flag. you know, I think having Nathan Fielder direct this and a co-direct it, there's another director, Openheimer, as well. but I think, you know, his take on things, if fol folks aren't familiar, I would definitely like watch a little Nathan for You, watch the rehearsal, his other show. But he has like a very meta take on documentary and first-person narrative. it's like a very much cringe-like fact, like you're describing, like the way he's looking. But what was interesting to me in the clip is he looks a little scared. And he's usually the one with like the poker face and kind of making people feel uncomfortable. So the fact that she's making him, who's like the king of cringe, feel uncomfortable, I think says a lot in that moment that that is intriguing. you know, I loved all the Theranos podcasts, the books, the series
Jackie: Yeah.
Katie Wilson: with Amanda Seifelt. She's fantastic. If you that's another great primer before this comes out. And she knows she's been living in San Diego, which is close to where I am. And she actually married an heir to like the Bahia and all these like popular San Diego hotels. who's very wealthy. And so he's in this as well as their fan and they have two young children. So it's just super fascinating to me that like, you know, she's continuing to live her life as if nothing's happening. I'm very interested into getting a slice into her you know, perception of what's happening, whether that's like fake or real, I think is a lot to be questioned. I think it's gonna be a interesting take and people are all already buzzing that it's gonna be like Oscar worthy for either for documentary. So I I'm super excited for this. but yes, I would say watch some other stuff before to get familiar with Nathan Fielder or the Theranos story, probably both, so that you're well prepared going into it.
Jackie: Yeah, I mean, you know, us both being in the startup world where innovation at all costs sometimes results in things like this. It's gonna be really interesting to watch, right? All right, so let's talk about
Katie Wilson: yeah. Totally. And she's a character.
Jackie: one more. can stepping away from startup life and into the world of art and community help someone reconnect with their true self? A former tech CEO, James Gwertzman, spent years in the world of startups and venture back growth before dedicating himself to building the 2026 Burning Man Temple. One of the event's most symbolic and community-driven projects. so red flag or green flag on this dusty desert quest for purpose and self-reflection, where on one hand it can sound inspiring, but it also makes me wonder if whether personal transformation is easier to pursue at this venue when you have the time and resources. You have to have a lot of resources to actually step away from your High pressure career. when for most people, this can feel a little bit out of reach. So many people are busy and may not have the resources to go do something like this. what makes it even more interesting, I guess, is that Burning Man, you know, it's evolved so much. It was originally affordable.
Katie Wilson: Yeah, totally.
Jackie: It wanted to be affordable. It was essentially, you know, a very socialist type of approach and built around a radically non-commercial philosophy. And today, you know, it just kind of feels like the people most able to participate are often those who have found success within a very these very commercial systems. that, you know, the burn burning man really just was rooted in and in the antithesis of that. So anyway, red flag or green flag on this story or, you know, whatever you what do you think of this?
Katie Wilson: Well, I'm a little biased. I'm a red flag on Burning Man in general. Like it's not my scene. It's never been, even from its organic like heydays within tech. Always a little skeptical or faux you know, folks. But you know, if that's your thing, go for it. But I do think it comes from a place of privilege to be able to go out in the desert and kind of like, you know, not bring anything with you and trade and like that's kinda was the original ethos. And now it, you you have Bethany Frankel running a luxury RV and, you know, f
Jackie: no.
Katie Wilson: you know, d doing reels live from Burning Man. So
Jackie: She killed it.
Katie Wilson: Very different place than where it started. Another great documentary that's on HBO is about the history of Burning Man. and I think it's called The Man Will Burn, but it's really interesting and goes into like kind of the dynamics around the founders and what their ethos was, how they kind of split and fractured, like the danger of i involved in running this event, especially in the early days. And we even saw this year a ton of deaths at Burning Man. So and you know, with the weather and also drug use and other things. So I think You know, I I'm always interested in the concept of Burning Man. I think it's interesting. I found the documentary super interesting, but not for me. I'm more of a Coachella girly, like a live music person. Don't want to be in the dusty desert. I do think, like, you know, it has some good origins in what it was like trying to be, but I think it's veered pretty far away from that now.
Jackie: Yeah, I hear all of that. I'm gonna go red flag on the dust and
Katie Wilson: Yeah.
Jackie: once Bethany Frankl showed up and TikToked all day long from there, it's yeah, I mean, how
Katie Wilson: This jumped. Yeah, the shark.
Jackie: could you even green flag this? So I'll leave it at that. All right, so as we wrap up today, seeing AI move from our screens into the physical world, especially in something as essential as transportation, makes this a conversation that affects all of us. It's one thing to trust AI with a recommendation for your email draft. It's another thing to trust it with decisions that impact our safety. As these technologies become part of everyday life, the real challenge may be less about what AI can do and more about how it needs to build trust with all of us and keep us all in the loop on the decision making would be good too. And how accountability is important and human oversight is needed for people to embrace it. So good seeing you today, Katie. Just a reminder, where can everyone find you?
Katie Wilson: You can find me on LinkedIn at Katie Wilson or Sirius Moonlight Consulting, both on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can also subscribe to my newsletter, Sales Isn't a Dirty Word on Beehive. And how about you, Jackie?
Jackie: Yeah, please find me on LinkedIn at Jackie Gutierrez and on Instagram and TikTok at Business Growth Gal and follow Bot Boundaries at Bop Boundaries on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Leave us a review. We're available on all platforms and also on YouTube. Bye, Katie.
Katie Wilson: Bye, see ya.
