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Coming up next on Leading while Black.
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And I know that that woman is not the woman
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I am at this moment. Grief has stretched me enjoyful
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and very interesting ways.
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Words of hope and inspiration. A conversation with jazz great
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Nina Free Lawn about her transformative journey with grief and
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how she's now helping other black women discover all it
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has to offer from the private sector to public life.
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These are the people making a difference in the Black community.
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They are Leading Wild Black.
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On the Black Information Network. Hello and welcome to this
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month's Leading Wile Black, the Black Information Networks monthly program
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spotlighting Black leaders in the fields of entertainment, business, health, sports, politics,
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and more. I'm Andrea Coleman. This month, we slow it
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down a bit to explore the latest works of seven
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times Grammy nominee jazz artist Nina Free Lawn. Nina released
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her latest album, Beneath the Skin in March, and later
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this month she is set to release a companion book
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titled Beneath the Skin of Sorrow and Provisations on Loss.
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While being one of the world's greatest jazz singers of
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our time. Our conversation today is on the topic of grief,
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a topic she is helping many people, especially black women,
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explore in a new and invigorating way. So you are
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a seven time Grammy nominee who is still creating and
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producing beautiful music. Tell us about these latest projects of yours.
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Well, thank you for the chance to talk about them.
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They are both The book Beneath the Skin of Sorrow
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Improvisations on Loss and the album Beneath the Skin are
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both born from the same creative breath. The album came
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out in March. It is my first project of all
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original music. You know, jazz singers often delve into the
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The Americans Songbook and songs by Ellington and Billie straight
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Horn and you know and others, but this is my
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first album of all original music. I really felt it
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was time for me, having been in this business for
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thirty some odd years, to begin telling some stories of
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my own. I've always written, and maybe there's been an
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original tune here or there, but this entire project is
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turning inward and in my mind it has a decidedly
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feminine feel where I am exploring pages for my own book,
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for my own metaphorical book of my life. And then
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the book is a memoir.
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It is a deeply personal.
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Look at at my life, not just my losses, but
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also the ways in which joy and sorrow intersect. And
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it's also about my life is a jazz musician, how
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being a jazz musician has impacted my grief? I really
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feel that improvisation, the things I learned, the skills I
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learned on the bandstand have helped support and buoy me
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in this very very difficult, challenging, joyful, and strange time
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since my husband passed. My sister passed in twenty nineteen
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and twenty twenty within six months of each other. So
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that's sort of the nutshell view.
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Yeah. So, and the titles for both you're using references
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are you're using the phrase beneath the skin? Where does
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that come from? What is it there that you're wanting
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us to uncover our discuss whereas you you take us
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through both projects.
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Wow, that's an awesome question. You know, skin is where
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judgment can live. Skin is the surface of things. It's
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also protection, it's our largest organ. It's also where we
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make decisions on whether we think something is good or
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not good. And I wanted to go underneath honestly, you
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know that old saying beauty is only skin deep. Yeah yeah, yeah, that.
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Old old too.
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The things that live on the skin can give us
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a glimpse, but it isn't the whole story, is it.
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It's a part of the story. It's the beginning of
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the story, or maybe not.
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The story at all.
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The skin of things is like skating on the surface
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of a frozen lake. When you go deeper, there's an
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entire different universe. They're different layers, and so that's what
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these projects explore in the book. I wanted to explore
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some of the nuanced, layered aspects of grief. On the surface,
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it's sorrow and it's tears and it's missing someone. But
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what I have found as I've leaned into my grief
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is that there are pockets of joy and humor and
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just things that I didn't expect awareness. You know, I
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feel like I'm more empathetic as a human inside my grief.
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I can understand if someone just isn't feeling like themselves.
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I have empathy for that, for the human condition that
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we all experience.
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Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, because
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you know, grief is one of those things that touches
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all our lives at some point in time, and sometimes
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it's through the loss of a person. Sometimes it could
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be through the loss of something else, you know, some
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of us more in eras past or you know, shifts
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in life that come unexpected. So I love how you're
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leaning into it. How much courage does it take to
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do that? I mean, and I say that because you're
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doing not only have you done the album and you've
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written a book, but you're also doing a podcast on
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it that's found great success. So it apparently is a
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topic that a lot of us have at least found
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to be intriguing.
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You know.
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I feel like people would love to have permission to,
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you know, lean into their grief, but the culture doesn't
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support it. You know, we're given a brief time at
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the funeral and then we're sort of given these messages,
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subtle and not so subtle. Get over it, you know,
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live your life. Just all of these things that push
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against really living well. So my podcast Great Grief is
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about living greatly through grief. It's not about wallowing in
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any particular moment. It's about incorporating grief into the way we.
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Live.
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And if you need a moment, take a moment, If
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you need to change your lifestyle or what you think
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is expected of you, especially black women.
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Oh my gosh, we're holding up.
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The whole sky and it's impacting our mental and physical health,
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and we don't give ourselves a break to find some
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softness and say, you know what, I'm dealing with a lot.
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I'm just gonna take care of me here for a minute.
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Because if we don't take care of ourselves, then all
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of the people that are depending on us will have
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to suffer the consequences. So I think it's very kind
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and good for us to make ourselves a priority in
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our grief, in our joy, and in taking the time
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to live fully. So if we feel something, feel it,
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and it doesn't matter how long we tell ourselves these
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stories that it's been long enough or it's been too long.
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And grief is not linear. It can be many, many,
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many years since the change or the shift or the
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event in time occurred. But grief does not wear a watch,
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and she cares not for time pieces of any kind.
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She will wait patiently until we turn in her direction.
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And for me, it wasn't so much courage but the
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fact that, well, first of all, all of this was
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on the heels of COVID Phil died in July of
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twenty nineteen. My sister died in January of twenty twenty,
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and I had in the back of my mind because
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we knew Phil had als. It's a progressive, difficult disease
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that takes your ability to move away bit by bit.
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And my sister had lung cancer. But in the back
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of my mind, I thought, well, when my husband passes,
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because there's no cure for this disease, she and I
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my run and buddy, We're just going to lean on
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each other and we're just gonna, you know, shoulder through it.
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And then she passed away. So my birth family and
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my family that I've had.
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Phil and I were.
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Married for forty years, disappeared in the space of six months.
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So I was more profoundly alone than I ever have
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been in my life.
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And then there's COVID. So my normal sort of go
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to when I have a challenge.
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Is to get busy, Like I just get busy. I
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do too much, I run too fast. I just that
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was not an option because the world shut down. So
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I'm home with my dogs in the quiet, and the
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book and the record were born from that quality of
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time where I had absolutely no choice.
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Which came first. Was it the album or was it
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the book?
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They kind of tumbled out. I didn't set out to
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write a book. I absolutely did not. I mean, I
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did not set out to write a book. But in
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the quiet, songs came, music came thoughts, imaginings, meditations, poems,
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all of these things sometimes one on top of each other,
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and I start I started speaking and singing into my
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memos on my phone. But prior to that, in the
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space where I was resisting grief, I just I was like,
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I just can't.
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This cannot be my life. This Absolutely my husband was
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a good man. I'm a good person.
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I thought I was the kind of person God was
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pleased with why in the world? And I was angry, Honestly,
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I was angry and disappointed, and I did not want
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to lean into my grief. So I was sitting in
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a stubborn kind of resistant space. But guess what, the
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attitude that I that I had cut me off from
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my own voice, and so for a time I lost
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the ability to sing. I found that in resisting this,
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you know, I don't want to. I'm never going to
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sing again. These are the thoughts.
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So we're going on.
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I'm never going to sing again, because you know, my
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voice is broken, and my life is broken, and my
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voice isn't like it was, and everything has changed. And
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I was looking at the losses and sort of stacking
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them up, one on top of the other, and you know,
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set my jaw tight, and my voice became unavailable. I
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absolutely could not say it was not until I softened,
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accepting that, giving myself a little grace. You know what,
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if the voice is broken, is broken, and it'll just
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have to be beautifully broken. I'll just have to accept
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that I am not the same, but also accept that
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if I am to sing again, if I am to
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be given my gift back, anybody who listens to me
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will have to accept that I am a broken vessel
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because I cannot pretend and do a soft shoe around
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my brokenness and still sing. So I was gonna have
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to be authentic and honest. In that space is where
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the book and the music emerged. Once I gave myself
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permission to be authentic, and I was as surprised as anybody.
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That's what it took.
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Not strength, not courage, not faith, but acceptance.
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Isn't that something?
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Isn't that something?
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Yeah? Yeah, you're listening to Leading While Black, the Black
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Information Networks monthly program dedicated to showcasing black leaders in
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all fields and disciplines of industry and entertainment. The soothing,
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melodic voice you've been hearing is that of jazz great
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Nina Freelan, who released her latest album this past spring
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and has a new book set to be released on
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October twenty first. Nina's late husband, Phil died in twenty nineteen.
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He was a lead architect on the Smithsonian's Museum of
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African American History and Culture. Just one year later, her
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beloved sister passed away. The losses have been transformative for Nina,
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but in a life affirming way. She explains, how as
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our conversation continues, so where did the joy come from?
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You mentioned there are pockets of joy as well. Where
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did you find the joy or where do you find
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the joy in the midst of the grief?
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Well, for me, the natural world is a huge inspiration,
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and there were moments of you'll find them in the book.
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A hawk feather from a red tailed hawk in the
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middle of the driveway, where I couldn't miss it, where
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I could not miss it, A perfect feather which I
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took as a message from the creator that flight was
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still available for you child. Flight The symbol is you
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know in butterflies and the trees, you know, the impossible
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things that you would you'd think, what a coincidence that
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this turtle is going to cross my path, This turtle
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who's who's lumbering up my driveway in the heat that
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I thought was a rock at first. And she's moving slowly,
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but she's moving, and it's a good ninety degrees outside,
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and I'm following her, thinking where in the world are
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you going, sister? She keeps going on, and I'm thinking,
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what a ridiculous.
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Urge is?
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It has to be something akin to I don't know, survival.
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Because she was going to find a place to lay
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her eggs. I was sure she wasn't just out for
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a stroll. And not once did she look back from
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where she came.
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Not once.
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She was driven by some deep inner urge to continue
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the species. And I just was like, I wish I
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could be, you know, equal to the cards that I
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was dealt. She was dealing with the cards she was dealt.
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No complaints, no should have go to water. She was
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doing her thing. So she had a profound message from
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my heart. Climb up, sister, do the hard thing. You're
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gonna be all right, You're gonna find rest, You'll be okay.
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So these kinds of things that I never would have
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taken the time to pay attention to, you know, ants, butterflies,
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creepy Crawley's you know, beautiful leaves that fall, but you
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know right in your face, like right the golden one
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with streaks of red. That's it's impossible, impossibly beautiful that
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falls right in front of you, not across the street,
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not before you came out, and not after, but right
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then as a gift. So those kinds of things brought
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me great joy and a great sense that death is
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not the end.
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That is so beautiful. I heard in one of your interviews,
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I think it was with NPR where you said the
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journey is the point. It's found on that a little bit.
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Well, I think we are trained in the West. I
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don't know if it's the truth in every culture, but
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we're trained to look at ends. Did you win, did
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you get the medal? You know, how did you grab
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that brass ring? And we ignore the process. We don't
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pay attention to the road. And the road is where
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the lessons are. I mean, it's lovely to be recognized
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for having done something wonderful, but the process, the journey,
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that's where you get all your good stuff. That's where
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the learnings are. And the journey is also ever ever growing,
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ever expanding. And so if we focus so much on
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getting the thing at the end of the thing, we
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miss the fact that the journey is the point. That's
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where we grow, that's where we stretch, that's where we
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become a new thing is on the road. Is when
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we look back in the rear view mirror, we're not
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looking at the same person when we have been through
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some stuff. When I look at Nina Freelon pre twenty nineteen,
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I have empathy for her. I have sympathy for her,
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I have love for her, and I know that that
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woman is not the woman I am at this moment.
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Grief has stretched me enjoyful and very interesting ways. For
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one thing, I am so much more patient. It's like, honey,
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that isn't even anything for you.
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To worry about.
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I'm also more bold because my head has already been
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in the lion's mouth. So if all you have to
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say to me is that you don't like me or
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you don't want to book me or I'm not this
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or that or somebody else's better. That is a somemall thing.
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That's a small thing in your album. You take us
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on the emotion of what it seems you have experience
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in the losses of your husband and your sister. Was
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that the goal of the album when you started out,
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or did it just kind of unfold like that? Naturally?
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I feel like it unfolded, honestly, because you know, they
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tell you when you write that you should start at
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a place that you know, you should start with your truth,
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especially if you're a novice. And I considered myself a novice.
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When you say the word author and Nina Freelan, I
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was like, no, I'm not an author. I'm a singer.
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And a friend of mine pointed out, she said, you've
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been writing.
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All your life.
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You just have been writing inside the form of a
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thirty two bar song, but you've always been a writer.
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And so I had this idea of writing prose is
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being a different thing. And as these ideas for songs
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and also ideas for the book began to emerge, they
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emerged in a lyrical way because that's who I am.
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There'd be a poem one day.
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There'd be a short story another day, some memory from
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you know. Turtles appear in the book in several places.
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I had several turtle encounters, and when they emerged after
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a while, I realized that they were gifts, gifts that
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did not be long to me, that somehow, in sharing
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the gifts, I might in some way open doors for
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other people to engage in creative ways with their own grief.
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Because we're not told that we're told hold on to
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the gospel plow. We're told, you know, in time it
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will get better. May your memories be a blessing. You know.
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We're told these things, but we're not told how to
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do these things. And women don't speak to each other
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in some ways that they could about how to navigate
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life if you end up being by yourself, even though
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statistics say women outlive men, there's a lot of widow
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women out there.
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The whole album is beautifully feminine. Really is a beautifully
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to me anthem, a note of love and the journey
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of life that it can take us on.
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Thank you so much when you write something deeply personal,
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you know, something from the core. I mean, because we
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can all entertain and there's nothing wrong with that, but
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that's not what this is. This is an interrogation, a
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curiosity about what's underneath all that stuff. This was the
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record that I had to to create in order to
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see what else might exist, you know, after it. So
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I'm just grateful that I was obedient enough to let
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it flow through me, even though there were moments where
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I was like, gee, this is kind I'm not personal.
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Who sings about widows? Nobody who does that? Nina, who
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does that? People are going to think.
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I don't want to be sad.
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I don't want to think about those moments in life
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that really do happen but nobody sings about. And how
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about when I performed it on stage, I've had many
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women come and say, my beloved passed ten years ago.
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These are some of.
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Them, like young women, like young women in their thirties
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and forties who are widows, and some elders. I was
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performing in Las Vegas and this elderly woman said I
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didn't want to come tonight. That's the first thing she said,
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I didn't want to come tonight.
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I said, well, I'm glad you did. She said, my
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brother made me come.
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She said, I just want you to know. I've been
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a widow for over thirty years, she said, and you
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healed me tonight. I didn't even know that that place
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was broken.
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And then she stro it off. She didn't buy a
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record either, so.
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I'm just saying right now, yes, she said, I got
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what I came for. And this was so funny, she said,
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nobody sings for the widow woman.
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Nobody sings. So it was just a.
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Validation that, yes, you're on the right you're on the
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right path here, and whatever fears.
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I may have had in the back of my own mind,
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we're just that fears that were unfounded.
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I am changed in my passage.
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I am changed.
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Thanks for tuning in to this month's Leading While Black,
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the Black Information Networks monthly program dedicated to showcasing black
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leaders and influencers impacting change and advance meant for the
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black community. We've been speaking with Nina Freelon, the seven
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time Grammy nominee, who is finding new life in the
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midst of grief after the passing of her husband and
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then beloved sister a few years ago. It's been a
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conversation seeped in inspiration and enlightenment sentiments in which we
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close this month's program for the women out there who
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may be feeling a little melancholic, or may have a
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hurt that they can't quite identify that may be attached
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to loss. A message of hope to them, I guess
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through your journey that could encourage them and inspire them
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to engage the grief in a healthy and meaningful way.
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Wow, thank you for that question. I am not the therapist.
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I am not the one who can tell you how
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to do your grief. Your grief is individual, It belongs
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to you, and it is in the complete shape of
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the person that you love. But just realizing that it
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is just consider because I don't want to tell anybody
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what to do, but consider the perspective that grief is.
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Form of love.
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If I felt nothing when my husband, the architect of
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record of the Smithsonian Museum of African American History and Culture,
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if I felt nothing, that would be the strangest thing.
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I lost my lover, my friend, my confidant, the guy
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who understood my jokes. The world lost a designed leader.
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The world lost an African American architect of the highest
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level who was built for his assignment. So there are
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sort of these layered losses I've had people say to
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me that although they recognize and they have great compassion
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for me in losing my beloved mate, but they also
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share the feeling of great loss in his death, and
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that shared sensibility is really heartwarming. I think a lot
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of times we feel like our grief is very you know,
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sort of just our own grief. It's private, but reaching
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out and touching someone's hand, not to say, not to compare,
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not to say, oh, I know what you mean because
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I lost blank blank blank, but just reaching across, because
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we're all human and if we live long enough, we
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will experience loss of all kinds.
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It's very good.
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Well, a reminder that your album is out, Beneath the Skin.
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It was released in March, and your upcoming book is
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when is it scheduled to be released? Is it October
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twenty first?
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It's October twenty first, Beneath the Skin of Sorrow Improvisations
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on Loss. I am so just so thrilled.
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That you took the time to talk to me today.
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It's just so great. Really, thank you.
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Oh you are so Wellcome listen. My husband and I
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have also bought tickets to your show in Atlanta on
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November seventeenth, and we understand who you are actually being
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going to perform in several cities across the US. Is
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I know you have several shows in California. How can
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our listeners learn more about your schedule as well as
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about you and your work in general?
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Oh? Thank you.
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The best way, I imagine is on the website, which
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is Nina dot com, not Ninafreelan dot com, but just
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Nina And that's four ends, one E in one A
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n E n n A dot com is where all
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the shows are listed. And Great Grief is my podcast.
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It's available wherever you get your podcasts. And sometimes people
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hear Great Grief, but they say good grief.
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But we're going for great. We're not stopping it good
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and all.
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The goodness that comes with it, right, absolutely all. Yeah,
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we are most grateful to Nina for including us on
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her book tour. You can learn more about her latest album,
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Beneath the Skin, her upcoming performances, her podcast Great Grief,
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and how to pre order her upcoming book, Beneath the
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Skin of Sorrow, and provisations on loss all at Nina
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dot com. That's Nina spelled n N E N n A.
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We thank you for joining us for this edition of
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Leading Wile Black. We hope this month's conversation provided a
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moment of reprieve during this time of uncertainty and change
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for many. Be sure to tune in next month to
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learn of the endeavors of another black leader was impacting
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change in a positive way. I'm Andrea Coleman. The Black
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Information Network means Black News First.
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Coming up next on Leading while Black.
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And I know that that woman is not the woman
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I am at this moment. Grief has stretched me enjoyful
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00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.320
and very interesting ways.
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Words of hope and inspiration. A conversation with jazz great
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Nina Free Lawn about her transformative journey with grief and
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how she's now helping other black women discover all it
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has to offer from the private sector to public life.
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These are the people making a difference in the Black community.
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They are Leading Wild Black.
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On the Black Information Network. Hello and welcome to this
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month's Leading Wile Black, the Black Information Networks monthly program
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spotlighting Black leaders in the fields of entertainment, business, health, sports, politics,
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and more. I'm Andrea Coleman. This month, we slow it
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down a bit to explore the latest works of seven
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times Grammy nominee jazz artist Nina Free Lawn. Nina released
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her latest album, Beneath the Skin in March, and later
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this month she is set to release a companion book
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titled Beneath the Skin of Sorrow and Provisations on Loss.
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While being one of the world's greatest jazz singers of
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our time. Our conversation today is on the topic of grief,
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a topic she is helping many people, especially black women,
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explore in a new and invigorating way. So you are
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a seven time Grammy nominee who is still creating and
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producing beautiful music. Tell us about these latest projects of yours.
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Well, thank you for the chance to talk about them.
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They are both The book Beneath the Skin of Sorrow
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Improvisations on Loss and the album Beneath the Skin are
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both born from the same creative breath. The album came
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out in March. It is my first project of all
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original music. You know, jazz singers often delve into the
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The Americans Songbook and songs by Ellington and Billie straight
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Horn and you know and others, but this is my
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first album of all original music. I really felt it
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was time for me, having been in this business for
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thirty some odd years, to begin telling some stories of
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my own. I've always written, and maybe there's been an
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original tune here or there, but this entire project is
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turning inward and in my mind it has a decidedly
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feminine feel where I am exploring pages for my own book,
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for my own metaphorical book of my life. And then
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the book is a memoir.
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It is a deeply personal.
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Look at at my life, not just my losses, but
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also the ways in which joy and sorrow intersect. And
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it's also about my life is a jazz musician, how
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being a jazz musician has impacted my grief? I really
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feel that improvisation, the things I learned, the skills I
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learned on the bandstand have helped support and buoy me
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in this very very difficult, challenging, joyful, and strange time
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since my husband passed. My sister passed in twenty nineteen
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and twenty twenty within six months of each other. So
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that's sort of the nutshell view.
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Yeah. So, and the titles for both you're using references
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are you're using the phrase beneath the skin? Where does
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that come from? What is it there that you're wanting
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us to uncover our discuss whereas you you take us
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through both projects.
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Wow, that's an awesome question. You know, skin is where
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judgment can live. Skin is the surface of things. It's
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also protection, it's our largest organ. It's also where we
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make decisions on whether we think something is good or
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not good. And I wanted to go underneath honestly, you
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know that old saying beauty is only skin deep. Yeah yeah, yeah, that.
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Old old too.
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The things that live on the skin can give us
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a glimpse, but it isn't the whole story, is it.
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It's a part of the story. It's the beginning of
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the story, or maybe not.
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The story at all.
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The skin of things is like skating on the surface
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of a frozen lake. When you go deeper, there's an
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entire different universe. They're different layers, and so that's what
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these projects explore in the book. I wanted to explore
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some of the nuanced, layered aspects of grief. On the surface,
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it's sorrow and it's tears and it's missing someone. But
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what I have found as I've leaned into my grief
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is that there are pockets of joy and humor and
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just things that I didn't expect awareness. You know, I
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feel like I'm more empathetic as a human inside my grief.
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I can understand if someone just isn't feeling like themselves.
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I have empathy for that, for the human condition that
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we all experience.
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Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, because
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you know, grief is one of those things that touches
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all our lives at some point in time, and sometimes
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it's through the loss of a person. Sometimes it could
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be through the loss of something else, you know, some
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of us more in eras past or you know, shifts
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in life that come unexpected. So I love how you're
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leaning into it. How much courage does it take to
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do that? I mean, and I say that because you're
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doing not only have you done the album and you've
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written a book, but you're also doing a podcast on
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it that's found great success. So it apparently is a
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topic that a lot of us have at least found
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to be intriguing.
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You know.
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I feel like people would love to have permission to,
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you know, lean into their grief, but the culture doesn't
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support it. You know, we're given a brief time at
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the funeral and then we're sort of given these messages,
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subtle and not so subtle. Get over it, you know,
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live your life. Just all of these things that push
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against really living well. So my podcast Great Grief is
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about living greatly through grief. It's not about wallowing in
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any particular moment. It's about incorporating grief into the way we.
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Live.
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And if you need a moment, take a moment, If
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you need to change your lifestyle or what you think
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is expected of you, especially black women.
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Oh my gosh, we're holding up.
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The whole sky and it's impacting our mental and physical health,
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and we don't give ourselves a break to find some
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softness and say, you know what, I'm dealing with a lot.
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I'm just gonna take care of me here for a minute.
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Because if we don't take care of ourselves, then all
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of the people that are depending on us will have
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to suffer the consequences. So I think it's very kind
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and good for us to make ourselves a priority in
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our grief, in our joy, and in taking the time
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to live fully. So if we feel something, feel it,
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and it doesn't matter how long we tell ourselves these
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stories that it's been long enough or it's been too long.
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And grief is not linear. It can be many, many,
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many years since the change or the shift or the
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event in time occurred. But grief does not wear a watch,
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and she cares not for time pieces of any kind.
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She will wait patiently until we turn in her direction.
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And for me, it wasn't so much courage but the
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fact that, well, first of all, all of this was
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on the heels of COVID Phil died in July of
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twenty nineteen. My sister died in January of twenty twenty,
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and I had in the back of my mind because
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we knew Phil had als. It's a progressive, difficult disease
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that takes your ability to move away bit by bit.
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And my sister had lung cancer. But in the back
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of my mind, I thought, well, when my husband passes,
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because there's no cure for this disease, she and I
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my run and buddy, We're just going to lean on
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each other and we're just gonna, you know, shoulder through it.
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And then she passed away. So my birth family and
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my family that I've had.
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Phil and I were.
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Married for forty years, disappeared in the space of six months.
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So I was more profoundly alone than I ever have
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been in my life.
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And then there's COVID. So my normal sort of go
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to when I have a challenge.
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Is to get busy, Like I just get busy. I
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do too much, I run too fast. I just that
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was not an option because the world shut down. So
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I'm home with my dogs in the quiet, and the
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book and the record were born from that quality of
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time where I had absolutely no choice.
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Which came first. Was it the album or was it
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the book?
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They kind of tumbled out. I didn't set out to
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write a book. I absolutely did not. I mean, I
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did not set out to write a book. But in
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the quiet, songs came, music came thoughts, imaginings, meditations, poems,
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all of these things sometimes one on top of each other,
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and I start I started speaking and singing into my
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memos on my phone. But prior to that, in the
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space where I was resisting grief, I just I was like,
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I just can't.
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This cannot be my life. This Absolutely my husband was
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a good man. I'm a good person.
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I thought I was the kind of person God was
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pleased with why in the world? And I was angry, Honestly,
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I was angry and disappointed, and I did not want
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to lean into my grief. So I was sitting in
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a stubborn kind of resistant space. But guess what, the
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attitude that I that I had cut me off from
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my own voice, and so for a time I lost
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the ability to sing. I found that in resisting this,
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you know, I don't want to. I'm never going to
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sing again. These are the thoughts.
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So we're going on.
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I'm never going to sing again, because you know, my
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voice is broken, and my life is broken, and my
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voice isn't like it was, and everything has changed. And
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I was looking at the losses and sort of stacking
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them up, one on top of the other, and you know,
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set my jaw tight, and my voice became unavailable. I
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absolutely could not say it was not until I softened,
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accepting that, giving myself a little grace. You know what,
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if the voice is broken, is broken, and it'll just
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have to be beautifully broken. I'll just have to accept
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that I am not the same, but also accept that
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if I am to sing again, if I am to
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be given my gift back, anybody who listens to me
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will have to accept that I am a broken vessel
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because I cannot pretend and do a soft shoe around
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my brokenness and still sing. So I was gonna have
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to be authentic and honest. In that space is where
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the book and the music emerged. Once I gave myself
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permission to be authentic, and I was as surprised as anybody.
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That's what it took.
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Not strength, not courage, not faith, but acceptance.
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Isn't that something?
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Isn't that something?
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Yeah? Yeah, you're listening to Leading While Black, the Black
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Information Networks monthly program dedicated to showcasing black leaders in
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all fields and disciplines of industry and entertainment. The soothing,
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melodic voice you've been hearing is that of jazz great
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Nina Freelan, who released her latest album this past spring
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and has a new book set to be released on
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October twenty first. Nina's late husband, Phil died in twenty nineteen.
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He was a lead architect on the Smithsonian's Museum of
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African American History and Culture. Just one year later, her
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beloved sister passed away. The losses have been transformative for Nina,
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but in a life affirming way. She explains, how as
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our conversation continues, so where did the joy come from?
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You mentioned there are pockets of joy as well. Where
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did you find the joy or where do you find
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the joy in the midst of the grief?
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Well, for me, the natural world is a huge inspiration,
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and there were moments of you'll find them in the book.
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A hawk feather from a red tailed hawk in the
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middle of the driveway, where I couldn't miss it, where
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I could not miss it, A perfect feather which I
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took as a message from the creator that flight was
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still available for you child. Flight The symbol is you
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know in butterflies and the trees, you know, the impossible
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things that you would you'd think, what a coincidence that
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this turtle is going to cross my path, This turtle
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who's who's lumbering up my driveway in the heat that
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I thought was a rock at first. And she's moving slowly,
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but she's moving, and it's a good ninety degrees outside,
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and I'm following her, thinking where in the world are
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you going, sister? She keeps going on, and I'm thinking,
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what a ridiculous.
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Urge is?
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It has to be something akin to I don't know, survival.
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Because she was going to find a place to lay
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her eggs. I was sure she wasn't just out for
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a stroll. And not once did she look back from
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where she came.
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Not once.
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She was driven by some deep inner urge to continue
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the species. And I just was like, I wish I
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could be, you know, equal to the cards that I
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was dealt. She was dealing with the cards she was dealt.
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No complaints, no should have go to water. She was
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doing her thing. So she had a profound message from
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my heart. Climb up, sister, do the hard thing. You're
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gonna be all right, You're gonna find rest, You'll be okay.
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So these kinds of things that I never would have
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taken the time to pay attention to, you know, ants, butterflies,
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creepy Crawley's you know, beautiful leaves that fall, but you
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know right in your face, like right the golden one
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with streaks of red. That's it's impossible, impossibly beautiful that
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falls right in front of you, not across the street,
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not before you came out, and not after, but right
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then as a gift. So those kinds of things brought
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me great joy and a great sense that death is
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not the end.
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That is so beautiful. I heard in one of your interviews,
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I think it was with NPR where you said the
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journey is the point. It's found on that a little bit.
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Well, I think we are trained in the West. I
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don't know if it's the truth in every culture, but
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we're trained to look at ends. Did you win, did
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you get the medal? You know, how did you grab
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that brass ring? And we ignore the process. We don't
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pay attention to the road. And the road is where
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the lessons are. I mean, it's lovely to be recognized
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for having done something wonderful, but the process, the journey,
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that's where you get all your good stuff. That's where
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the learnings are. And the journey is also ever ever growing,
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ever expanding. And so if we focus so much on
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getting the thing at the end of the thing, we
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miss the fact that the journey is the point. That's
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where we grow, that's where we stretch, that's where we
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become a new thing is on the road. Is when
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we look back in the rear view mirror, we're not
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looking at the same person when we have been through
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some stuff. When I look at Nina Freelon pre twenty nineteen,
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I have empathy for her. I have sympathy for her,
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I have love for her, and I know that that
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woman is not the woman I am at this moment.
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Grief has stretched me enjoyful and very interesting ways. For
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one thing, I am so much more patient. It's like, honey,
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that isn't even anything for you.
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To worry about.
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I'm also more bold because my head has already been
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in the lion's mouth. So if all you have to
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say to me is that you don't like me or
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you don't want to book me or I'm not this
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or that or somebody else's better. That is a somemall thing.
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That's a small thing in your album. You take us
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on the emotion of what it seems you have experience
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in the losses of your husband and your sister. Was
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that the goal of the album when you started out,
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or did it just kind of unfold like that? Naturally?
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I feel like it unfolded, honestly, because you know, they
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tell you when you write that you should start at
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a place that you know, you should start with your truth,
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especially if you're a novice. And I considered myself a novice.
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When you say the word author and Nina Freelan, I
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was like, no, I'm not an author. I'm a singer.
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And a friend of mine pointed out, she said, you've
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been writing.
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All your life.
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You just have been writing inside the form of a
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thirty two bar song, but you've always been a writer.
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And so I had this idea of writing prose is
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being a different thing. And as these ideas for songs
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and also ideas for the book began to emerge, they
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emerged in a lyrical way because that's who I am.
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There'd be a poem one day.
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There'd be a short story another day, some memory from
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you know. Turtles appear in the book in several places.
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I had several turtle encounters, and when they emerged after
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a while, I realized that they were gifts, gifts that
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did not be long to me, that somehow, in sharing
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the gifts, I might in some way open doors for
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other people to engage in creative ways with their own grief.
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Because we're not told that we're told hold on to
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the gospel plow. We're told, you know, in time it
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will get better. May your memories be a blessing. You know.
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We're told these things, but we're not told how to
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do these things. And women don't speak to each other
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in some ways that they could about how to navigate
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life if you end up being by yourself, even though
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statistics say women outlive men, there's a lot of widow
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women out there.
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The whole album is beautifully feminine. Really is a beautifully
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to me anthem, a note of love and the journey
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of life that it can take us on.
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Thank you so much when you write something deeply personal,
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you know, something from the core. I mean, because we
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can all entertain and there's nothing wrong with that, but
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that's not what this is. This is an interrogation, a
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curiosity about what's underneath all that stuff. This was the
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record that I had to to create in order to
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see what else might exist, you know, after it. So
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I'm just grateful that I was obedient enough to let
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it flow through me, even though there were moments where
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I was like, gee, this is kind I'm not personal.
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Who sings about widows? Nobody who does that? Nina, who
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does that? People are going to think.
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I don't want to be sad.
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I don't want to think about those moments in life
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that really do happen but nobody sings about. And how
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about when I performed it on stage, I've had many
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women come and say, my beloved passed ten years ago.
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These are some of.
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Them, like young women, like young women in their thirties
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and forties who are widows, and some elders. I was
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performing in Las Vegas and this elderly woman said I
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didn't want to come tonight. That's the first thing she said,
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I didn't want to come tonight.
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I said, well, I'm glad you did. She said, my
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brother made me come.
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She said, I just want you to know. I've been
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a widow for over thirty years, she said, and you
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healed me tonight. I didn't even know that that place
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was broken.
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And then she stro it off. She didn't buy a
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record either, so.
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I'm just saying right now, yes, she said, I got
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what I came for. And this was so funny, she said,
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nobody sings for the widow woman.
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Nobody sings. So it was just a.
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Validation that, yes, you're on the right you're on the
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right path here, and whatever fears.
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I may have had in the back of my own mind,
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we're just that fears that were unfounded.
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I am changed in my passage.
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I am changed.
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Thanks for tuning in to this month's Leading While Black,
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the Black Information Networks monthly program dedicated to showcasing black
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leaders and influencers impacting change and advance meant for the
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black community. We've been speaking with Nina Freelon, the seven
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time Grammy nominee, who is finding new life in the
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midst of grief after the passing of her husband and
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then beloved sister a few years ago. It's been a
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conversation seeped in inspiration and enlightenment sentiments in which we
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close this month's program for the women out there who
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may be feeling a little melancholic, or may have a
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hurt that they can't quite identify that may be attached
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to loss. A message of hope to them, I guess
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through your journey that could encourage them and inspire them
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to engage the grief in a healthy and meaningful way.
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Wow, thank you for that question. I am not the therapist.
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I am not the one who can tell you how
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to do your grief. Your grief is individual, It belongs
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to you, and it is in the complete shape of
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the person that you love. But just realizing that it
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is just consider because I don't want to tell anybody
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what to do, but consider the perspective that grief is.
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Form of love.
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If I felt nothing when my husband, the architect of
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record of the Smithsonian Museum of African American History and Culture,
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if I felt nothing, that would be the strangest thing.
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I lost my lover, my friend, my confidant, the guy
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who understood my jokes. The world lost a designed leader.
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The world lost an African American architect of the highest
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level who was built for his assignment. So there are
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sort of these layered losses I've had people say to
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me that although they recognize and they have great compassion
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for me in losing my beloved mate, but they also
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share the feeling of great loss in his death, and
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that shared sensibility is really heartwarming. I think a lot
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of times we feel like our grief is very you know,
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sort of just our own grief. It's private, but reaching
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out and touching someone's hand, not to say, not to compare,
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not to say, oh, I know what you mean because
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I lost blank blank blank, but just reaching across, because
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we're all human and if we live long enough, we
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will experience loss of all kinds.
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It's very good.
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Well, a reminder that your album is out, Beneath the Skin.
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It was released in March, and your upcoming book is
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when is it scheduled to be released? Is it October
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twenty first?
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It's October twenty first, Beneath the Skin of Sorrow Improvisations
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on Loss. I am so just so thrilled.
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That you took the time to talk to me today.
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It's just so great. Really, thank you.
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Oh you are so Wellcome listen. My husband and I
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have also bought tickets to your show in Atlanta on
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November seventeenth, and we understand who you are actually being
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going to perform in several cities across the US. Is
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I know you have several shows in California. How can
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our listeners learn more about your schedule as well as
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about you and your work in general?
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Oh? Thank you.
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The best way, I imagine is on the website, which
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is Nina dot com, not Ninafreelan dot com, but just
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Nina And that's four ends, one E in one A
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n E n n A dot com is where all
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the shows are listed. And Great Grief is my podcast.
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It's available wherever you get your podcasts. And sometimes people
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hear Great Grief, but they say good grief.
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But we're going for great. We're not stopping it good
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and all.
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The goodness that comes with it, right, absolutely all. Yeah,
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we are most grateful to Nina for including us on
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her book tour. You can learn more about her latest album,
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Beneath the Skin, her upcoming performances, her podcast Great Grief,
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and how to pre order her upcoming book, Beneath the
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Skin of Sorrow, and provisations on loss all at Nina
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dot com. That's Nina spelled n N E N n A.
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We thank you for joining us for this edition of
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Leading Wile Black. We hope this month's conversation provided a
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moment of reprieve during this time of uncertainty and change
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for many. Be sure to tune in next month to
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learn of the endeavors of another black leader was impacting
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change in a positive way. I'm Andrea Coleman. The Black
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Information Network means Black News First.
