130 | The Trickster Element: Linking UFOs, High Strangeness & Bigfoot - w/ Paranorm Girl Podcast

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Your pen goes missing just when
you need it.
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A lighter disappears into the
ether when you just had it in
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your pocket.
Your favorite horse breaks its
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00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,960
leg in the last leg of a race.
You're about to pay that mob
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boss what you owe him from
betting on the horse race, and
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you reach in and there's a hole
in your pocket.
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Your money fell out and just
like your horse, your leg is now
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broken.
But just like the last time,
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you'll head back to the track
because rent is due and you'll
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never learn.
After all, you still have one
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other leg that works because you
never heard the tales of the
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tricksters.
I didn't see you there.
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It all started early this
morning.
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From hunting ghosts to Bigfoot
UFOs.
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Cryptids, true crime,
paranormal, and more I.
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Always wanted to see AUFO.
Oh I was.
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I was researching for your
entertainment.
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That's Bigfoot's cat.
He basically wrote the book on
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Monarch.
We aren't really comedians.
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What if Buddha did cocaine?
The Addams family on meth.
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This is the Black Cat report.
See you on the other side.
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Good evening and welcome to this
special episode mash up of the
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Black Cat Report and Paranorm
Girl podcasts.
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I am ecstatic today because I
get to introduce two people I
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deeply respect, love, and think
are probably some of the best
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people to ever walk this Flat
Earth.
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First off, I'm going to
introduce the pleasing and
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handsome, capricious in
behavior, cunning and guileful
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Gil.
Hello, thank you for such a a
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warm and wonderful introduction.
And it is my most pleasureful
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ecstasy to introduce the
enchanting in movement, the
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beautifully beguiling in speech,
the divinely mesmerizing
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Kristen.
Well, thank you, Joey, and thank
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you Gil and Joey for doing this
collab.
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I've really been excited about
this and this subject in
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particular to dig into it with
you guys.
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I am so glad we did this.
Yeah, hell yeah.
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Kristen is the sole host,
writer, producer, marketer,
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owner and general all around
badass of Paranormal Girl
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podcast.
And if you haven't followed yet,
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now's the time to do it.
Just do it.
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It's real easy.
Just hit, follow, like, and
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subscribe on the Paranorm Girl
Podcast wherever you're
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listening to this, right?
Yeah, thanks.
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You just do everything.
Me and Gil separate everything
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we do.
So it's like, all right, you're
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basically double, but quadruple
the double of me and Gil.
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Yeah, but it's, hey, it's, it's
worth it to do it the way that
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you guys do it because I'm
actually 25 and I, I, I doubled
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in age.
Just my I, I wake up feeling
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like I run, run over by a truck
every morning.
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It's a lot.
It's it's, it's a lot for one
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person.
But thank you.
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I appreciate that.
Yeah.
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Yeah.
Well, we're gathering here as a
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special mash up today because we
got intrigued by the idea of
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trickster gods and the idea of
tricksters in general from a
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past episode Gil himself had
researched and narrated for the
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wonderfully amazing El Pombero.
And if you haven't listened to
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that episode yet, it is episode
127.
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You can take a listen right now.
Well, a little later, but now
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for today, we brought Kristen on
to discuss the Trickster God and
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Goddess or spirit phenomenon.
We'll be going through a few of
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the tricksters themselves and
maybe at the end comparing and
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contrasting their role and even
some of their likenesses across
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eras and locations.
Tricksters in themselves, what I
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like to call outlaws, and I want
to see if you guys can go along
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with me on this, right?
So let's see.
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I feel like they're outlaws
because in a sense they just
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stayed right outside the
societal norms and societal
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laws, and they're constantly
pushing boundaries to see if
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they can bend OR break those
boundaries, just like Gil did
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back in the day and still does
today.
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OK, no, I'm not supposed.
To say that no.
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You know.
Gil Gil with two LS.
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Gil with two LS.
You know, if, if I were to say
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that you were any trickster, I
would say you would probably be
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Loki.
Just it's an easy, easy one to
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do.
It's because, and that's why I
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used the description of Loki to
describe you in the intro.
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Because I felt like, thank you
so much.
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I feel, I feel honored.
I'm more of a pan man.
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But that's just me, you know?
But Loki's I I accept Loki.
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Loki's awesome.
Yeah, Loki's the shit.
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I just something about Pan.
I don't know, maybe it's because
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like my arch nemesis is goats
that I just kind of have this
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like, you know, but that's
that's how you manifest your
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tricks.
Your spirit is you kind of have
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to love and appreciate something
that you hate.
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You know what I'm saying?
Like it has to be both ends.
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Oh.
That's right, you hate goats.
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That came up in the last.
Fucking hate them, Brinkley.
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Fucking hate them.
Yeah, not a fan, not a fan, but
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I appreciate it.
Hair and food, That would be my
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nemesis.
That's it.
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I don't.
I don't know how that trickster
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trickster would like hair and.
Food or hair in food?
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Hair in food how does it always
find its way into food it's.
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Kristen's spiritual entity is a
711 a food selection do.
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They have 711 and where you are.
Me.
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No, no, that was gosh, I haven't
seen a 711 since I was in
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California actually.
Do they have the come and goes
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out there?
No, we've got the what's it
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called?
No new new news.
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No, no's.
I don't know.
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There's a weird, weird 1 sounds
poo poos.
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I can't remember.
I think it's poo poos.
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It's a chain.
I feel like it's poo poos.
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I'm gonna call it poo poos.
And they do have hair in their
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in their hot dogs and.
It it's not like it's not like
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face hair or like face hair or
it's a mystery.
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It's a mystery.
You know chest hair that's on
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there, Yeah.
Does it matter at that point?
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Yeah.
Yeah, it's just.
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Not good.
We'll say, Joey, just cuz I'm,
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I'm excited about what you're
saying about going with the
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outlaw thing.
That is goddamn near universal
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when it comes to tricksters in
terms of always, almost always
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being a symbol of rebellion and
whatever country they're in.
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So when revolutions,
insurrections, things like that
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pop off, it's super common for
resistance groups to adapt the
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the imagery of tricksters and
like as a role in society.
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They almost always question like
the establishment of authority
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and push boundaries.
So it's like being super profane
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and being very immature, but
also being wise at the same time
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and like incredibly
knowledgeable, but sounding like
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a moron.
You know, again, you know,
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that's a goal that I have for
myself.
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But and like just slowly start
sprouting goat legs below the
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camera.
But does anybody else want to
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play flute?
But no, it's they tricksters are
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awesome.
Tricksters are awesome.
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I don't know.
I'm excited to get into this.
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Do we?
I'm, I'm very fucking stoked.
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I I've been like, for weeks,
ever since Kristen first brought
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up the idea during our during
our premiere of Elbow Barrel
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Christian.
You know, you messaged me like,
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I'm gonna do a collab episode
with you about tricksters.
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Jesus Christ.
Hell yeah.
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How soon can we do it?
You know, I've just been like,
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yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
yes, yes.
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I'm stoked, buddy.
I'm stoked to get in.
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Yeah.
Can we start?
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Do you wanna start with
something?
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Throw us a bone, Joey, and then
we'll launch off there, cuz I
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think all three of us are gonna
be attacking this in different
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ways.
So yeah, I can try to get into
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the evolution.
Yeah.
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Yeah.
Why don't you kick us off?
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Well, give me a minute.
Oh, well, OK, while you're,
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while you're doing that.
Yeah.
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El Palmbero, that was that was
such a neat moment that I that I
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was like, Oh my God, we got to
do a trickster episode because
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El Palmbero listening to you
guys go through this episode and
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I'm not going to give anything
away because everybody needs to
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go watch it.
Episode one O 2 One O 7.
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It's recent.
It's very.
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It's the only one that says El
Pom Baro.
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The title is kidnapped by a
crypted El Pom Baro.
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Yeah.
It's very, very recent.
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Just go take a look at their
channel.
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But listening to this
description of this creature,
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which I'd never heard of, I I
didn't know what El Pom Baro was
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listening to this description,
it was like, Oh my God, that
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sounds so familiar.
What is with this pattern?
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Like it sounds just like Bigfoot
to me, like, and and it was
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matching these like, like
pattern for pattern.
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And I was like, Oh my gosh.
And then I started thinking and
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I was like, you know, I've
equated, people have equated
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Bigfoot to it.
It, it does some weird things
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that that falls in line with the
trickster.
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And Oh my gosh, what if, what if
El Palombaro is Bigfoot?
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What if they're all what what's
going on?
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Is this a trickster?
We got to do it.
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So that's where I'm coming from.
Yeah.
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We're going to investigate
Explorer.
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I 100% want to go to so say
they're all related, right?
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I want to go to a trickster
wedding.
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Holy shit.
Can you imagine that after party
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all the tricksters hanging out
together?
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Yes, they're just like and and
with these vows, I say divorce
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surprise motherfucker.
It's just like, oh, it was a
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divorce the whole time.
You got us.
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Or what if they just all played
tricks on you because you're the
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only non trickster so like
everybody ganged up on you.
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I mean you're a trickster for
sure in real life.
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Like if you if there was an
embodiment of a spirit, it would
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be you.
But what if they all ganged up
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on you?
You know, how would that?
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How would?
You love it?
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Yeah, I would.
I would love it.
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I would absolutely love it.
And also Donut in our chat
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pointed out an excellent idea
saying or made a great point
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saying I would go to a Trickster
bonfire masquerade which Jesus
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Christ if I had enough friends
locally we would have one of
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those.
We're getting so bohemian, man.
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Yeah.
Hey, Jaden.
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Welcome all.
Well, tricksters in themselves
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genuinely could be really
cunning, or in some stories be
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very, very, very, very, very,
very, very gullible.
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Take for example, the story of
Laverna, who was the Roman
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goddess of thieves, cheats,
liars and fraudsters.
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Laverna promised a priest who
was selling his estate that in
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exchange for the estate she
would build a temple on the
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land, but instead Laverna sold
everything on the estate and of
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course did not build a temple.
When the priest went back to
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look for Laverna, she was gone,
and when she did it to another
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person, those victims, Laverna's
trickery, came and asked the
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gods for help.
The gods brought Laverna before
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them and asked why she did not
uphold the agreement.
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Laverner made her body
disappear, leaving only her head
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and yelled Behold me, I swore my
body but body have I none?
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And the gods got really confused
because Yoda and Star Wars had
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not been released yet after
that.
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Yeah yeah sorry, not supposed to
make jokes when I'm writing the
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script but I try anyways.
It was.
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Good.
It was good.
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Good job.
Well, on the other side of it,
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they could also be very gullible
and the trick was always ending
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on them.
That coyote spirit of the Hopi
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was generally viewed as the
gullible trickster.
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The coyote was getting into many
adventures which end up serving
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as moral teachings for either
social interaction or etiquette.
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And just as we said above, the
trickster would be kind of
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00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,200
outside the societal norms in
order to kind of establish the
226
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,440
boundary between what is
acceptable and what is not.
227
00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:58,240
And a lot of the indigenous
tribes use tricksters.
228
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,480
Instead of saying that their
morality is bad, they'd use it
229
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,560
to say that they're like, to
teach lessons and that they're
230
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:08,240
above.
So we don't really understand
231
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,680
what they're doing.
Like basically like a God
232
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:14,120
looking down on us.
Coyote itself would get tricked
233
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,320
and defeated by the animals that
would interact with due to its
234
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,320
greediness, recklessness or its
disobedience.
235
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,680
Right?
So that's kind of what coyote
236
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,720
would happen.
There is also some stories of
237
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,480
the coyote being the the non
gullible one being the tricker,
238
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,160
but it's not as prevalent as the
as the Hopi versions of it.
239
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,080
Here's Do you mind if I point
out a little fun fact?
240
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:45,520
Coyotes.
So I was actually being, you
241
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,760
know, I went down a rabbit hole
the other day learning about
242
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,120
coyotes.
And there's a fun little thing
243
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,960
that they do.
So over, you know, thousands of
244
00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:01,160
years of living incredibly close
to humans and like human
245
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,440
settlements and stuff, but never
quite allowing themselves to
246
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,520
become domesticated, they've
picked up a lot of very
247
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,640
interesting tricks.
And this is actually a survival
248
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,480
tip for folks because coyotes,
fun fact, are in every single
249
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,400
city within the United States.
You might not see them.
250
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,360
They exist.
They live in packs, they run
251
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,960
around neighborhoods.
Coyotes like go look up the
252
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,280
territory of coyotes and it's
cities that you would not
253
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,200
expect.
Like, LA has like a huge problem
254
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,320
with coyotes right now, like in
downtown, like they're
255
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,160
everywhere.
But with that, with them being
256
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:45,000
so close and so far classic
trickster behavior, they they've
257
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,160
learned to do a couple of
things.
258
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,960
And these are warning signs for
you.
259
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,280
Seriously.
Like, I'm not even making a joke
260
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,760
here.
So they'll pretend to be
261
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,800
domesticated.
They'll pretend to be all cute
262
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:03,200
and like loving up against you
in order to lead you to a spot
263
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,920
where they will literally attack
you and try to kill you or eat
264
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,320
you.
So they woke up and be like, oh,
265
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,320
hi.
Oh, oh, yes, I do love when you
266
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:14,520
rub my hunch.
Yeah.
267
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,680
Oh my God, chin scratches.
It's been so long.
268
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,440
Hey, hey, do you want to come
over here?
269
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,480
I found something cool.
And then it'll just murder your
270
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,440
ass.
So that's one trick that they
271
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,920
are known for doing to people.
So this is like an actual, if
272
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,160
you're out at the park or you're
out and you're like, oh, it's
273
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,280
oh, God, it's a coyote.
And then you're like, oh, wait,
274
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,600
oh, it's acting so cute.
Oh it must be somebody's pet.
275
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,480
Don't fall for that shit.
Seriously, this is a survival
276
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,000
tip.
Another thing they'll do is
277
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,440
pretend to be injured and play
on people's sympathy in order to
278
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,880
injure the person.
So like I'm just saying.
279
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,320
Very fitting for a trickster
too.
280
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,280
Like like that's solid survival
advice.
281
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,840
If you're out in the woods and
you're like, it's a coyote, just
282
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,800
like wait a second, notorious
tricksters.
283
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,160
I'm not falling for that shit
but I will give you some chin
284
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:09,200
scratches but not too many like.
Humanity recognizes this type of
285
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,840
behavior so easily and like it.
It is an archetype like Young,
286
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,920
you know, pegged it as one one
of the archetypes, but it is
287
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,040
also so fitting too.
That was this the the Cherokee
288
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,640
Coyote was was Cherokees
trickster Hopi I'm.
289
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,400
Sorry, yeah, I mean it was
pretty much most of the most of
290
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,200
the southern.
Was it?
291
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,640
Southern indigenous tribes.
But OK, yeah, it was it's just
292
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:41,120
so, so fitting for them to put
this, this archetype, this
293
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,800
character onto that particular
creature because they recognized
294
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,560
that behavior.
They recognized it.
295
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,720
It was already, Yeah, the
trickster was already there that
296
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,920
that thought of that, that set
of behaviors.
297
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,440
Yeah.
Interesting.
298
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,600
And I wonder how much, you know,
has Joey goes through the
299
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,160
stories that he's about to
deliver.
300
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,400
I wonder how many of these
things kind of, you know, is it
301
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,240
the chicken or the egg kind of
thing?
302
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:13,160
Is it a recognition of a
trickster like entity being
303
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,119
essence, whatever.
There's there's a million terms
304
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,960
for it.
Is there a recognition of that?
305
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,480
And then in order to teach
children about that, you say,
306
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,319
look at the coyote and look at
this because it's so common for
307
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:34,040
folks to compare stuff that it
might be complex, you know, but
308
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,960
has a broader, you know, an
overarching moral or like lesson
309
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,400
to it to compare it to something
in nature, right?
310
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,840
Like we have phrases like that
all the time, you know, the
311
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,240
Thunder before the storm or like
where there's smoke, there's
312
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,600
fire.
We're like, we do these types of
313
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,520
things to come with these these
analogies all the time.
314
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,880
And I wonder how many times it's
like, oh, the coyote became the
315
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,640
trickster, the trickster God or
the trickster God that everybody
316
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,320
was aware of just really fit
with the behavior.
317
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,520
And it was a great way to kind
of teach folks and like,
318
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,200
basically kill two birds with
one stone where you're like,
319
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,360
yeah, also watch out for him.
But also there's this God out
320
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:15,840
there that you need to be
careful about.
321
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,840
Like, I don't know.
Or to help people conceptualize
322
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,920
that that God.
Yeah, go ahead, Joey.
323
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,400
And you, Kristen, you, you
mentioned Jung Yin, like the
324
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,960
theory behind it.
You know, I just, he was old
325
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,200
when he came up these things.
So why did they call him Carl
326
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:42,160
Jung?
Jayden got you on that, Jayden,
327
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,840
Jayden earlier said.
Impossible challenge.
328
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,280
Joey goes 30 seconds without
saying a joke.
329
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,920
I lost.
Thank you for the challenge.
330
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:55,160
OK.
Joey.
331
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,080
Yeah, you know what?
Got to add some laughter to
332
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,280
myself.
Keep them coming.
333
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,360
No, keep them.
Coming.
334
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,760
Joey's just over there, like
somebody's got to make me laugh.
335
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,200
You just did good job.
That was a nice one.
336
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,280
Kristen made me laugh earlier.
She had a good one.
337
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,480
So all righty, let's hop right
in.
338
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,920
Scoreboard got goddesses and.
Spirits, keep them coming.
339
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,880
Yeah, so the first trickster
we're going to talk about today
340
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,840
is Veilis.
Which Veilis?
341
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,520
I don't know if you guys know
who Veilis is.
342
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,760
VELESK chose this one because
there isn't actually a whole lot
343
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,160
written about Veilis, and most
of it is actually just from
344
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,920
spoken tales.
Veilis, the God, serves as a
345
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,440
duality between societies,
right?
346
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,960
So the earliest written
reference to Veyless was in the
347
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:53,320
Ruse Byzantine Treaty OF971AD,
in which signers swore by
348
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,880
Veyless's name, kind of like how
we swear on the Bible and God's
349
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,160
name when we testify in court.
Veyless was associated with the
350
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,040
Rososlavic area of Europe, which
is basically where modern day
351
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,400
Slovakia, Romania, Ukraine, and
southwestern Russia.
352
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,440
So it's in that Baltic area, you
know that little area.
353
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,880
Down there.
The best place to buy an AK47
354
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:14,520
from.
Got it.
355
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,360
Yeah, exactly.
Bayless supplies and delivers.
356
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,280
Why do you know that?
Go on.
357
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,680
Yeah, next story.
I'm kidding.
358
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,600
That was literally the whole
story.
359
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,480
The AK.
So abrupt.
360
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,280
He was the AK47.
I was just getting sucked in
361
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,240
Bayless.
So all right, so with Bayless,
362
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,160
so we're in the Slovakian like
regions and stuff.
363
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,320
And you said, folks, were they
signed this treaty or this
364
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,480
trustees or whatever, like they,
they signed it to his name.
365
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160
And so they were like swearing
an oath or they were basically
366
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,360
saying like it was their
generation's version of being
367
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,560
like on God.
Like that's what was happening
368
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,120
here.
So this, this had to be like
369
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:08,840
pretty widely, widely accepted
for this to make it into pseudo
370
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,000
legal documents at the time.
Is there any, were you able to
371
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:19,040
find any depictions like early
coins or like say like Shields
372
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,360
or something like that?
Like anything associated with
373
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,120
'cause like, if it's that there
was a few, I feel like it'd be
374
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:27,480
popping up some symbolically,
you know?
375
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:29,880
There was a few early
depictions.
376
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,840
This is also, if we think about
it, it's just before
377
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,840
Christianity hits Russia in that
area.
378
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,200
So it's just before that
Christianity was brought over
379
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,000
there.
So this is paganism.
380
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,120
This is their their style of
paganism and witch gods because
381
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,120
there's a bunch of gods.
Veyless is a is one of the many,
382
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,480
as you know, as we talk about
every other culture around this
383
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:59,240
time has similar, has a bunch of
gods basically describing how
384
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,080
they understand what's going on
in the world.
385
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,760
And that's another part about,
you know, the trickster gods.
386
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,560
It's a, it's an ability to let
them understand what's going on
387
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:13,360
in the world.
Now the duality of Valus is that
388
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:17,960
Valus is also associated as well
as being a trickster, but
389
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,160
associated with poetry and
wisdom, and as well as being the
390
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,160
Lord of waters, ocean, seas,
ships and whirlpools.
391
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,080
Bayliss is also the hunter and
protector of cattle, which is
392
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,800
just add another, you know,
little star to Bayliss's name.
393
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,080
Little title.
We had the most random gods back
394
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,520
in the day, like you were the
gods of cats and missing socks.
395
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,800
Yeah, yeah.
They just needed to put
396
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,520
something in it to fill the
hole.
397
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,320
They they write and they're
like, man, almost got to the end
398
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,320
of the page.
Yeah, and and the.
399
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,760
You are the God of running out
of room at the end of a page and
400
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,200
having to write really tiny at
an upward angle.
401
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,160
Yeah, yeah.
Well, on the other side of this,
402
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,400
he is also the God of the
underworld.
403
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,840
So basically he's in the
Christian terms he's the devil,
404
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,440
or in the Greek terms he's
Hades.
405
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,920
So.
God of burgers and burning.
406
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,000
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I like it.
407
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,640
As Valles is the God of the
underworld is more of the normal
408
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,800
trickster we're kind of used to
hearing about right?
409
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,920
Not the God of poetry, Wisdom
Lord of waters, more of the God
410
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,160
of the underworld.
Using trickery he would drag
411
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,520
souls down to the underworld
after they had passed away.
412
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:45,240
And depictions of Valles vary a
lot amongst the culture amongst
413
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,840
the little tiny regions in
Russo, Byzantine area,
414
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,640
differentiated and the vault
like the small, the Yugoslavia,
415
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,600
Serb, Slovenia area, I think
it's not Slovenia, Slovakia
416
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,240
area, all little different
little things about it.
417
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,160
Some of them depicted as him
just being a bald human male,
418
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,800
sometimes with like bull horns
on his head.
419
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,400
Actually, if you want to think
of it, he had kind of had the
420
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,560
bull horns, like trying to think
of the God that had bull horns.
421
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,320
Like minitars or?
Yeah, like kind of like a
422
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,000
minotaur, I guess, right, With a
bald head.
423
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,600
OK, OK, All I'm picturing right
now, I mean a.
424
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,360
Lot of things have have horns,
yeah.
425
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,280
That's right.
It's not not one guy that I can
426
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,240
think of.
It's a lot of.
427
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:41,200
All I'm picturing is movie night
last night with Corp police.
428
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,320
Yeah.
The the chief who had the poor
429
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:46,200
giant horns.
Yeah, yeah.
430
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,440
And the creationist side of the
story because it's really
431
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,880
there's, you know, most of these
tricksters have a two sides of
432
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,880
it, different sides of how they
were created.
433
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,000
The creationist side of the
story, he's shown as a huge
434
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,840
dragon lying in nest of black
wool or black fleece beneath the
435
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,600
World Tree.
And Gill, you know, is part of
436
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,520
the, you know of the, what is
it?
437
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,080
Protector of cattle and
everything around sheep, goats
438
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,360
as well.
Seeing that this dragon killed a
439
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:22,760
bunch of goats probably makes
you happy.
440
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,880
Yeah, I'm on.
I'm generally on the trickster
441
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,840
side.
This makes sense.
442
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,640
This is Valus and his his
evolution.
443
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,800
They turned him into a dragon.
Like this is part of the
444
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,480
evolution here.
It's just different cultures.
445
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,440
Different cultures view him in
different ways and how they
446
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,320
created, how one of them was
like he's a creator.
447
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,480
And we'll see this in the
indigenous stories too.
448
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,840
One of them says that he's a
creator and another one's just
449
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,080
like, no, he's just like a fat,
bald horned human, you know,
450
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,840
like, like he's one of he's one
of us, you know, like thinking
451
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,800
of it like it's.
Just fat, bald and horny.
452
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:06,200
Yeah, yeah.
OK, Yeah.
453
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,680
I would say that he is almost
the literal amalgamation of Loki
454
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,360
and Hades mixed together from
Greek and Norse mythology
455
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,120
because like Hades he was thrown
down into the underworld after
456
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,040
trying to kidnap the Mokash.
The goddess of summer who is
457
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,680
also is a lot of name dropping
here.
458
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,200
The consort of Perun who is
basically Odin if we I'm trying
459
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,160
to compare so people can
understand like how who they are
460
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,000
in the story.
Perun is Odin, right?
461
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,240
The the leader you know.
And actually Perun is also the
462
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,720
God of Thunder, which is the
same thing.
463
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,040
So it's like.
Real confusing.
464
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:45,440
Real.
Yeah.
465
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,240
They're not too super far from
each other and I imagine the
466
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,920
Vikings and came down a little
bit.
467
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,640
I don't know, maybe it's around
this time, maybe a little
468
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,520
earlier.
I don't know.
469
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,600
I don't know time periods
anymore, but time isn't real.
470
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:08,480
Well, but they basically battle
underneath a huge oak tree and
471
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,320
Perun, the God of Thunder wins
and casts him down into the
472
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,440
underworld.
So this is like the origin story
473
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,840
of how he becomes the boss of
the underworld.
474
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,840
You know, he goes, eh, you know,
give me some mozzadella, you
475
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,840
know, And then he becomes mob
boss of the underworld.
476
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,120
Makes sense This tracks.
Yeah, sorry, I've been watching
477
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,680
The Sopranos and I'm kind of
just, you know, getting into my
478
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,640
roots.
Never seen it.
479
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,600
I got I still got to I got to
watch it.
480
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,560
Never seen even 1.
Well, it's just a lot of sex, a
481
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,920
lot of boobs, because he's
always in a strip club.
482
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,880
Yeah.
And then he's killing people.
483
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,200
Cool.
And then he's in therapy.
484
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,400
So it's like that again,
duality, you know, you see this
485
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,040
duality of him.
Like you just watch him in
486
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,320
therapy and the next scene he's
at a strip club and the next
487
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,080
he's having sex with some random
girl that you just came on the
488
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,400
screen randomly.
And then you're like, cool, this
489
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,640
is a he.
Just does it over and over and
490
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,080
over again.
Just a yeah, vicious circle.
491
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,280
And isn't that how we all live?
That's life, baby.
492
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:26,000
I need to get out more.
So did Bayless, so, right, So
493
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,760
you got Bayless with various
different depictions across the
494
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,480
regions.
I would imagine that these
495
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,000
depictions kind of got muddled
up, mixed up, maybe altered from
496
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,880
being fairly uniform after
Christianity came in and made
497
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:50,120
talk or, you know, any, any sort
of representation, right?
498
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,240
Well, I mean, this is just what
has happened, a million million
499
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,240
at one time, sadly, as
Christians came in, did their
500
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,200
best to just slash and burn
people's cultures, right?
501
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,520
And then use the ashes as
fertilizer for their own mutated
502
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,200
versions of Christianity
depending on the region.
503
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,000
So there might have been other
gods would be my first take cuz
504
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,520
there might have been other
gods.
505
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,360
And then overtime
generationally, since people can
506
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,480
really talk with their neighbors
cuz they might get snitched on
507
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,400
and you know, reported to the to
the Christian police.
508
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,040
You know, these things get these
things get mixed up overtime.
509
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,360
Like, families might call them
Bayliss, but then at the same
510
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,760
time, nobody's openly talked
about Bayliss and twenty, 30-40
511
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,960
years.
And so they kind of, they become
512
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,280
these little niche stories and
then all of a sudden it just
513
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,320
starts adapting and filling in
roles everywhere.
514
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,640
And then before you know it, you
have the God of cats and missing
515
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,160
socks.
Like at the end of the day, you
516
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,640
do.
And are we are are you
517
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,440
presenting this right now as as
it was this like the earliest
518
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:05,040
kind of depiction or concept of
like a trickster God that that
519
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:11,080
there is that's on record?
There at the there have been
520
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,960
through time.
This is the earliest that I
521
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:19,240
could find as a with a lot of
information.
522
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,360
I would say with enough
information to put in part of an
523
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,200
episode, I guess is the way to
say it.
524
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,480
A lot of them, again, like this
is one of those that's passed
525
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,920
down through.
A lot of them are just passed
526
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:36,120
down through stories and without
a lot of written evidence, it's
527
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,760
hard.
Like you just said, it's hard to
528
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,200
not go well.
Was this repurposed?
529
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,520
And they started as one thing,
but then you start seeing them
530
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,760
rotated into different, like,
you know, this one has like 7
531
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,080
different responsibilities is
what I'll call the things.
532
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,800
Yes.
They just get so many
533
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,680
responsibilities, tricks.
That's why they get so tricky.
534
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,160
But it's the earliest I could
find with decent enough
535
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,800
information to to understand
like, OK, this is a a person.
536
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,240
Veyless did also even extend
himself into today.
537
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,320
And just like Gil was talking
about and he just feels like he
538
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,480
reads my scripts and then just
goes, you know what?
539
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:22,440
He reads my mind because Veyless
was repurposed to be either got
540
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,400
repurposed to two different
things, but to be either the
541
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,560
devil, which he kinda, it was a
little bit of trickster ish,
542
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,200
which if we look in Christian
iconography, most of the
543
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,280
trickster gods turn into the
devil.
544
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,920
Christianity kind of goes, this
is devilish behavior, right?
545
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,560
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, that's interesting
546
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,440
because Satan, or if we consider
the devil and Satan to be the
547
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,200
same Satan, that was actually a
note I made earlier today.
548
00:31:54,200 --> 00:32:00,600
Satan is like a famous
trickster, matches tons of the
549
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,600
traits of this entity.
Whatever, whatever this thing
550
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,040
is, this concept, that's Satan,
baby.
551
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:12,480
So Veilis became the devil, OK.
Yeah, what's crazy too is that
552
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,800
when Vladimir the Great brought
Christianity to Russia, which is
553
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,520
not too far after the first
written, you know, written
554
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,360
signing, it was, I think it was
971.
555
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,880
Let me make sure because 971 I
was correct.
556
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,760
Vladimir the Great brought
Christianity to Russia in 988.
557
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,840
He created and kind of mirrored
Veilis with the idea of a St.
558
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,320
St.
Vasily who was depicted in
559
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,080
Russian iconography surrounded
by sheeps, cows and goats, which
560
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:49,640
is the he's a leader of the
cattle, you know, of hunting and
561
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,600
protecting.
So kind of like they took both
562
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,400
sides of it, you know, and we're
like, let's Christianity went,
563
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,000
OK, here's the good sides, let's
take that, and here's the bad
564
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,360
side.
We're just going to slash them
565
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,280
and use them.
Yeah, and that Christian Co
566
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,320
opting is just that's just
conversion one O one that.
567
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,800
That was across.
Every, yeah, every crusade,
568
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,640
yeah.
Just like Co opt the hell out of
569
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,320
whatever the hell is there.
Like anything that's deeply
570
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,240
rooted or could be kind of
twisted.
571
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,680
And it's just like, yeah, we're
just going to Co opt this and
572
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,160
it's going to be the
Christianity's local flavor, you
573
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,440
know?
Once you start reading into
574
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,400
that, it's just like this moment
over and over again.
575
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,760
Like, are you fucking kidding
me?
576
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,800
Seriously.
Because it's so like once you
577
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,480
can see like, oh, this was the
old version and then this is the
578
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,720
Christian version.
It's like, oh, come, come on.
579
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,440
Like you couldn't even change
the one that you couldn't change
580
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,360
it enough that I wouldn't
recognize it.
581
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,400
Like, but you don't know that
until you till you look, till
582
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,280
you look at it.
Christ might be the greatest
583
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,240
trickster of all, That's all.
I'm saying, man, I was just
584
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,920
about to say that it's true.
To add to this, right?
585
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:03,960
So we use the phrase put someone
out to pasture, right.
586
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,800
You know, we're putting an
animal, put a person out the
587
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,880
pasture.
They're retiring or I don't
588
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,679
know, in the end of it, you're
going to die.
589
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:14,199
I don't know.
It's it's don't really use it as
590
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,840
going to die, but use it as
you're retiring nowadays.
591
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,560
Well, yeah, Remember the idea
that he was the protector of
592
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,880
cattle and protector and the
hunter of cattle.
593
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,040
So in the Slavic and Baltic
Russo area during that time, it
594
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,120
literally means somewhere you go
after death because when they
595
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,679
died, they went out to pasture,
didn't say out to pasture.
596
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:41,040
It's like out to the fields.
I picture it as, you know, in
597
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,280
Gladiator, that scene when
Marcus Aurelius is dying and he
598
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,239
dreams of walking through the
fields of grain and the pasture,
599
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,520
meeting his wife and kids again.
That's kind of the idea that
600
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,400
this Valus would, would put
forth is that you're going out
601
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,040
to pasture with the animals,
which is like living and and
602
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,520
like, it's a beautiful
afterlife.
603
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,800
Even though he was the God of
the underworld, it wasn't like a
604
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,640
fiery brimstone underworld like
we think of like Christianity
605
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,320
has brought to us.
Well, OK.
606
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,400
Thank you for for lifting the
valus on that.
607
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,720
Well, we're going to drop into
our second trickster for today,
608
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,640
walking past Gill's nice little
pun.
609
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,640
We're going to travel just a bit
southwest to go down to the
610
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,600
continent of Africa,
specifically in the country of
611
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,080
Ghana, where the trickster
Ananzi originated.
612
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,640
Ananzi, the name itself.
Yeah.
613
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,160
Yeah.
Ananzi, the name itself was
614
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,720
derived from the akin.
Akin.
615
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,120
I think it's akin word for
spider.
616
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,960
I want to apologize for all of
the things that I'm pronouncing
617
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,560
incorrectly.
I've looked them up not as.
618
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:58,440
Anasasi, it's hard.
The akin akin on, on, on, on
619
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,880
Nanzi.
I think it's a Nanzi there.
620
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,000
I think it's an an an Ansanzi
too.
621
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,680
That's there.
There's different pronounced
622
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,240
pronunciations for all of these
gods from different areas.
623
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,480
Poltergeist potato.
It's the same thing.
624
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,000
Yeah, yeah.
Go go with your gut, Joey.
625
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,960
Yeah, it's funny looking at all
of these tricksters and then
626
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,200
like we talked about with the
culture and how much they like
627
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,520
change over the different
cultures, their names change the
628
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,680
tiniest of bits because you
know, different languages of
629
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,040
course to in smaller regions.
So you're just like, I don't
630
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,600
know what to call you.
I'll call you what I saw you on
631
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,840
Google and the most that that
came up the most in the Google
632
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,320
hit.
So I feel like that's the the
633
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,000
best way to go.
Correct me if I'm wrong please.
634
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,120
So a Nazi Anansi yes.
OK, OK, I was just reading.
635
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,640
I I assumed it was a she.
I might be wrong but I was just
636
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,080
reading about this God and it's
it's like a giant spider.
637
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,960
Giant spider, that's one of the
ways it's it's it's depicted.
638
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,800
Why?
Why have a God that's a spider?
639
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,320
Why choose that?
It it's, I would say it's not
640
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,640
OK.
So this is semantics, right?
641
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,840
So it's a Nazi in a lot of
stories is not a God.
642
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,800
It's like AI would say more of a
spirit.
643
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,040
It's like a in between and they
they say it in, in a lot of the
644
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,800
stories, it's the in between
between the gods and people.
645
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,520
And so it's like the mixture.
It was like a messenger in a lot
646
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,400
of ways.
It does God like things, which
647
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,280
is very interesting in some of
the stuff I've read and some
648
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,760
obviously some of the stories
cause it's a million different
649
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,560
little culture, little regions
around there having tiny bit
650
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,080
different stories.
Some of them had it as a God,
651
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,120
some of them, most of them had
it as just like a messenger
652
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,920
between, even though it was like
a spider, you know?
653
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,120
Right, right.
OK.
654
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,560
But it was between like the God,
this level between the gods and
655
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,800
then humanity, like like an
Angel or the jinn.
656
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,000
Yeah, if you've ever read the
Cimarillion, it's getting real
657
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,800
nerdy here.
There's the top, which is the
658
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,400
why can't I remember the name?
Man Way.
659
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,360
And the Man Way is basically the
top of it.
660
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,080
And then you go down and right
beneath that is the Mayor, which
661
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,880
is like Gandalf, Saruman and
stuff like that.
662
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,960
So like the second level,
they're the Istar, which is the
663
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,640
Wizards.
The second level of it, they're,
664
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,160
you know, kind of there.
So that's what I would say.
665
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,080
Ananzi is like a second level,
like you said, the gin like
666
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,880
right below the angels.
It's kind of what Ananzi is.
667
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,160
Some like Caboz had just said,
some stories depict Ananzi as a
668
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,800
spider.
The spider in this term has a
669
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,840
human face, which is just like,
oh, I don't like that that.
670
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,880
Just makes it weirder.
Some of them have them with a
671
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,480
human, like just as a human
normal with eight legs.
672
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,120
So like some of the depictions
of them have 8 legs and it's
673
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,080
just like what is that?
Or like it didn't explain and it
674
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,600
didn't show pictures if the legs
were human legs, IF8 legs or if
675
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,280
there were spiders of eight
legs.
676
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,680
You know what I mean?
Like spider spindly legs.
677
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,640
Or if it was human legs and it
just looked really, really wack
678
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,600
and crazy.
That was an Angel.
679
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,200
They all looked crazy.
The creepiest of them?
680
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,400
Biblically correct angels are
more, not any better.
681
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,520
Well, one of the stories
associated with the nonzi, and
682
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:42,000
probably perhaps the most well
known story is a story that a
683
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,200
nonzi itself allowed us to have.
This makes sense a little later.
684
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,080
That sounds weird.
PR team.
685
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,920
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, they're good marketers.
686
00:39:54,280 --> 00:40:00,280
So before time, the distant way,
back in the day, there were no
687
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,000
stories, right?
This is a interesting concept.
688
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,680
Yeah, this is the concept.
OK, we're we're dealing with the
689
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,440
concept of that.
You were stating a matter of
690
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:09,360
fact.
I was like, what?
691
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,320
Mind blown.
It's like the it's like the if
692
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,240
the tree falls in the forest as
as if anyone's there on to hear
693
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,680
it.
No stories if you can't tell
694
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,520
them which.
Makes sense?
695
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,320
All the stories at the time were
owned by the sky God Naomi
696
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,000
Ananze Jonesing.
I added that word in myself for
697
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,600
some stories.
Decided to try and buy the
698
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,680
stories from Naomi, but Naomi
laughed.
699
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,720
Naomi is the sky God for the
Akon people.
700
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,960
Basically like the big cheese.
You know the big over over top,
701
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,480
the Odin so to speak of
everybody here.
702
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:56,360
Mm hmm.
Well Nanze said he would pay
703
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,400
anything.
So now I'm a kind of joking gave
704
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,320
Ananze for near impossible
tasks, right.
705
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,800
And so this is also kind of like
other stories as well.
706
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,120
They have many impossible tasks,
kind of like all the what I say,
707
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,040
all the old like Brothers Grimm
stories back in the day too.
708
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:20,000
You have all these tasks you
have to do well.
709
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,040
Nancy would have to catch four
of the most dangerous creatures
710
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,720
in the world.
The Onini, the Python, don't
711
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:30,160
know if I said that correctly.
Mamboro Hornets.
712
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,800
And if you know Hornets,
impossible to catch Osebo the
713
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:41,080
leopard and the fairy Mimotia.
So a lot of sorry again, a lot
714
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:46,560
of hard words.
Anansi agreed but the Naomi made
715
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,920
another demand.
Anonse would have to bring his
716
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,440
mother Yanisia with with him to
do this.
717
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Just like wow cool bring your
mom you're not cool enough
718
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,360
you're not good enough.
So Anonse did what any other
719
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,880
good person would do and asked
his wife to come along too and
720
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,640
help.
Let's make this longer story
721
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,520
shorter cuz it is a very long
story and I don't want to go
722
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,240
through all of it here.
Ananze used trickery and guile
723
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:18,520
to capture each of the four
creatures and brought them back
724
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,400
to Naomi.
And then Naomi said, well you
725
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,840
did that so I can't say no.
Was laughing about it basically
726
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,040
like I just, I didn't even
believe you're going to do that.
727
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,760
Here's the stories.
And now the theory behind it is
728
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,560
that now we can all enjoy all of
the stories and that is one of
729
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,240
the miss the folklore behind
Ananze.
730
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:44,960
OK.
OK, so Ananzi is considered like
731
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,640
kind of like a trickster entity
because of the way that they
732
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,480
attack their their assignments
like their what they were
733
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,320
supposed to their tasks.
Oh, OK, OK.
734
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,040
Yeah.
So the task basically was like
735
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,120
would go to the to the Hornets
and was like, hey, Hornets, it's
736
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,600
it's about to rain.
And they were all out, you know,
737
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,240
flying around as Hornets do,
attacking people and was like,
738
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:13,800
hey, this is about to rain.
I got a place for you guys to
739
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:14,680
go.
Like you can come.
740
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,120
I have this little thing said
like a pot.
741
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,520
It was some kind of pot and was
like, you guys can stay in here,
742
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,000
like in this pot until it
finishes raining and hurry.
743
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,880
Yeah, they're like, oh God, it's
going to rain.
744
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,640
And so they got in there.
He's like, gotcha.
745
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,840
You know, like his wife's just
in the background with tinfoil
746
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:37,680
like whoa.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, The best team
747
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:43,120
ever.
Yeah, real power couple adding
748
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,720
into this because this started
in Ghana, right?
749
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,440
And this started in that area of
the world once the African slave
750
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,520
trade pretty much started to
wreak havoc on the tribes in
751
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,120
that area.
They used some of the tales as a
752
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,240
nonzi to develop their own
ideals.
753
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:01,400
And this is exactly what Gil was
saying earlier with resistance,
754
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,800
because so many people were
being taken as slaves that
755
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,360
allowed them a blueprint for the
idea of resistance.
756
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,000
And Gil just, you know, threw,
threw, threw it out there 'cause
757
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,480
he's a, he's a genius with this,
with knowing how this script is
758
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,040
written.
Which then leads Ananze to the
759
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,520
aforementioned idea that Ananze
is an outlaw, which I'm coming
760
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,400
back to because I just bring all
these trickster gods back to be
761
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,840
an outlaws.
Ananze allowed African American
762
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,280
people who were taken as slaves
to dream of turning the tables
763
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,440
on their oppressors by using
cunning and trickery the same
764
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,960
way that Ananze did in the the
four trials.
765
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,080
Even if some of the physical
part of revolting didn't always
766
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,600
happen, it did happen as well
and they used those.
767
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,720
I think it gave them sort of an
other world to go to just to get
768
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:52,640
by as well.
It wasn't just a physical, it
769
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,040
was also a mental part of
tricksters that allowed them to
770
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,240
use it.
They would also use it as real
771
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,520
life applications to understand
their behavior.
772
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,480
Basically using behaviors to to
start to get like, what is it
773
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,200
called to gain the upper hand in
the plantation power structure?
774
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,560
And I didn't make that up.
That was actually written about
775
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,080
in a book.
Try to find the actual person
776
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,920
who wrote that.
I'm not smart enough to think of
777
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:27,120
that, but it's true.
Sorry, this was written by
778
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,280
Nevermind.
What am I doing A.
779
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,320
Guy.
A guy a a really smart guy.
780
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,960
Dude, yeah.
I'll I'll list it.
781
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,120
This be a Nazi?
Yeah.
782
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:50,040
Nazi's PR team this is.
So this this brings up.
783
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:55,200
You kind of just touched on a
point in a general sense that I
784
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,120
had written down here, something
that I did want to kind of talk
785
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:04,640
over a little bit like
tricksters, trickster entities,
786
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,920
trickster spirits, guns, what
have you.
787
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,520
But there there's a handful of
things that they kind of like
788
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,360
universally can get applied to
them where it's like there's a a
789
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,680
few outliers where it's like
this trickster entity over here
790
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,960
doesn't have that or isn't known
for that.
791
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,040
But for the most part, there is
like, I would say like a good 70
792
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,920
to 85% like fitting description
for most tricksters across
793
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:39,000
cultures, centuries and just
like experiences, human
794
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,080
experience, right?
Like it feels like everybody
795
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,600
everywhere, no matter how
connected they are, kind of all
796
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:48,240
settle on these same 7580% of
similarities when it comes to
797
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,560
tricksters.
One of those, one of those
798
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:55,240
things, one of those hallmarks
is being a shapeshifter that
799
00:46:55,240 --> 00:47:01,320
just across the board, right?
Sometimes the shape shifters,
800
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,000
they the essence with the powers
that they have, right, The
801
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:09,320
abilities, it can be full on
like, you know, they can shape
802
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,120
shift into anything that can
sound like anyone that can
803
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,040
imitate anything.
It's just complete copy and
804
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,720
paste of whatever they're trying
to to imitate or become.
805
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,400
Other times it'll be tricksters
where they can transform into,
806
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,360
you know, birds and frogs
specifically, you know, but
807
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,960
generally speaking, shape
shifter is a thing.
808
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,240
And I think that it's, it's
fascinating too, because going
809
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:38,120
back to the cultural level,
right, in terms of how societies
810
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,840
adopt in times of need, right?
Tricksters, right?
811
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,560
In terms of we're going to take
a different lesson from that.
812
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,320
We're going to stop fearing it
and we're going to start
813
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:54,280
embracing certain qualities,
right tricksters themselves as
814
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,520
entities.
They shape shift within
815
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,520
society's eyes.
And it's so fucking fascinating
816
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,960
to see that right where it's
like you have this external
817
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:13,040
entity, but the actual lessons
go from we should fear them to
818
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,160
we should use them to impose
fear on our enemies.
819
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:22,680
Hey, the trick and like how they
Yeah.
820
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:23,280
And it's it's.
What?
821
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,080
What it is they?
Literally they shape shift their
822
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,400
own status, right, which is so
fucking fascinating to me
823
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,360
because we there's this concept
of like it is external, it is
824
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,440
real.
It is, you know, living,
825
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,000
breathing, walking,
transitioning through
826
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:45,400
dimensions, what have you, But
also as as I don't know, an
827
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,400
ideology as a belief system,
right?
828
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,680
It just everything just kind of
like shifts with them.
829
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,880
And it's, I fucking love that
because literally it went from
830
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,120
being like, hey, it's a part of
the creation story and it's a
831
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,120
part of this and it's it's bad
and it's not, you know, we
832
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,280
should kind of be worried about
it to being like, this is how
833
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,080
we're going to oppose the slave
trade, right?
834
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,840
And fucking love that.
Tricksters are so fucking cool
835
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,880
man.
I love, I love that ability as
836
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,280
well.
I've said that before talking
837
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,480
about tricksters in the past
that it's like it when when you
838
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,960
were talking about it in regards
to an entity, some something
839
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,920
that is real in an entity, not a
concept, not an ideology.
840
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:38,440
This entity, it doesn't seem to
have a form, a face, a name.
841
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,960
And I have said this before too.
It becomes what you need to see
842
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,520
it, it, it shows itself to you
in the way that you are going to
843
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,160
be able to see it.
And that has a lot to do with
844
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,880
the person and the perceiver as
well.
845
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,600
But you know, just this idea
that maybe maybe it doesn't,
846
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,520
maybe it doesn't have like, like
we can't, I can't describe to
847
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:06,320
you what, what 1 looks like
because it's, it's it, its, its
848
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,320
whole existence is shape
shifting.
849
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,440
I don't know, like it's, it's
bopped from 1, you know,
850
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,080
fairies, aliens, Bigfoot, like
on, you know, on and on and on
851
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,560
and down the line used to be
gods like down the line.
852
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,080
Like is it?
I don't know, is it like a
853
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,520
concept, a concept that has
become something that's real,
854
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,560
but it doesn't have a body to
call home.
855
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,720
That's where my brain went.
That's an interesting, that's an
856
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:37,960
interesting thought.
It ties into much bigger theory,
857
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,640
but yeah, that fascinates me
that something that could very
858
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:47,400
much.
What's the I'm drawing a blank
859
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,760
here?
This just came up in a recent
860
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:57,280
interview that you did.
It's not an Agricore, it's a
861
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:58,120
tulpa.
Tulpa.
862
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,840
Yeah.
Tulpas, so are they, you know,
863
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,840
if we want to go the route of
defending tricksters existing
864
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,520
and not just being a tool, not
just capital J on just being a
865
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,760
tool of social expression and
existence and explanation,
866
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,160
right, but actual entities,
right.
867
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,440
And in our understanding of it
has a conscious and that's kind
868
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,880
of where it ends with being able
to describe them.
869
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,960
You know, are they are they
Tolpas?
870
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,560
Are they regional Tolpas, right.
And atopa being a thought form.
871
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,520
I I just realized I never
explained that to folks.
872
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:38,560
Sorry.
Atopa being more or less enough
873
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:45,680
of a an emotional and mental
commitment by humans, or I guess
874
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,480
I've never heard it applied to
other animals, but by humans
875
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:54,760
that bring something manifests
an actual conscious entity into
876
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,600
existence.
And it's it's a thought form.
877
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,320
It's a thing that's been created
strictly because of people's
878
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,280
beliefs, right?
Almost kind of like how we value
879
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,000
money.
If anything, it's kind of a
880
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,720
really messed up that's a.
Very abstracted but simple
881
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,480
groupthink.
So so groupthink is going to
882
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,400
create your aggregor.
Thank you.
883
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,160
The the single person is going
to create the tulpa or servitor.
884
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,280
But The thing is, like I after
my recent talk with Dave Zilla,
885
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,880
who who's he's a practicing
witch and he's also very much
886
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,640
into AI and he created his own
Aggregor with the help of AI.
887
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,120
Like I do believe these to be
very real, like thinking of
888
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:39,400
being into being into reality.
I think they are real.
889
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,640
And that's interesting.
You picked out Tulpa
890
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:47,600
specifically because out of all
of the thought forms tulpa is
891
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,520
going to be, the more the the
more likely out of all of them
892
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,920
to kind of separate from its
creator and become its own
893
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,120
thing.
Thinking for itself, making
894
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,880
decisions for itself and causing
some havoc, causing some chaos.
895
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,760
Which is interesting.
Could be.
896
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,040
Was it the first person on earth
and they got lonely so they made
897
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,840
themselves a friend and the
trickster's been here ever
898
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,880
since.
Could be.
899
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,280
We went so deep you guys, I
love.
900
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,920
It.
Well, adding into a lot of that,
901
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:29,040
and I think taking it from the
physical realm to more of the
902
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,920
cultural realm, for which, you
know, I did a lot of the study
903
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,720
into the cultural realm and the
idea that most of the African
904
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:39,760
tribes created their trickster
God as animals.
905
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,160
You know, and if you look at
Europe's trickster gods, they're
906
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,400
most in general human being
like, you know, human being with
907
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:53,880
like Loki, who had the other,
who's the Hermes?
908
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,680
Hermes is Brea.
Travel or something?
909
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,400
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, they're, but they're
910
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,600
all very human like and a lot of
the African tribes have a lot of
911
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,760
animals, you know, and from
stuff that I've read, just the
912
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,520
idea behind the tricksters
feeling like they're part of the
913
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,960
people that they come from and
that they're like against some
914
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,640
sort of.
I think a lot of this move
915
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,680
towards it more when the slave
trade happened is that the
916
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,760
animals became more parts of
their lives because again, like
917
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,240
we talked about their resistance
and that these animals were
918
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:36,400
became very cunning and very
like smart, very clever on ways
919
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,720
to like fight in different ways.
And then with with, you know,
920
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:42,920
the Europeans, they're just
like, oh, what?
921
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,360
They're humans.
They're just like us.
922
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,480
We're over top.
And they're more of like in, I
923
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,400
don't know, trying to explain
this idea that I was having that
924
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:55,360
a lot of Europeans don't have,
that we use, I guess, the human
925
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:00,200
as a archetype.
Comparatively, Native Americans
926
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,400
also use a lot more animals as
well as in their spirits.
927
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,800
And there's too.
So I was just wondering if there
928
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,480
there could be some kind of
connection between those two?
929
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:16,800
I think that comes with the
general bastardization that
930
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,440
comes with Christianity as a
whole.
931
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:23,200
So 1 of Christianity's early
tenants, like it's it's very
932
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,480
early foundational tenants is to
separate people as much as
933
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:33,080
possible from nature and to get
humans to see themselves as
934
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,120
separate from the animal
Kingdom, right?
935
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:40,400
Like that's like standard, like
you are unique, you are blah,
936
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,440
blah, blah.
I mean, go back to the Bible and
937
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:47,280
it's like God gave man dominion
over all things, right?
938
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,600
And separating, separating out
the human from the animal, where
939
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,880
most of the world, I would say
most of the same world, never
940
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,680
saw ourselves as separate from
animals.
941
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,360
Yes, we fit in with them and we
have our own little, our own
942
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,400
little fancy dance and
communication.
943
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,520
But at the same time, like we
recognize ourselves as like we
944
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,800
eat, sleep, fucking shit, you
know, like this is we are the
945
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,320
same as every other living thing
that we can see.
946
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,920
And we're all inherently
connected to one another, which
947
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:25,320
so when you get into like
battling paganism, very broad
948
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,880
stance, right?
When you get into battling
949
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:35,280
paganism, you have to
differentiate yourself, right?
950
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,880
When it comes to that literal
war that was taking place,
951
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,880
right?
And one of those things is to
952
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,520
say, no, no, no, I'm human.
I'm better than all this other
953
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,320
shit.
I own all this other shit.
954
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,200
I have rights to all this other
shit.
955
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,960
I can do whatever the hell I
want to it, which justifies a
956
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,320
whole host of atrocities for
thousands of years.
957
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,720
But that was a part of the
weaponization of the Christian
958
00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:07,520
doctrine as a whole.
So I mean, to kind of get back a
959
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,440
little bit to what you were
saying at the beginning of your
960
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,640
thoughts, Joey, you know, the,
the Christian Bible is full of
961
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,920
examples.
Sorry, I'm forgetting some, but
962
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,000
I, I hope folks that are in the
chat who paid more attention in
963
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,000
Sunday school than I did can
bring them up.
964
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:25,680
But it's full of examples of
angels working as tricksters,
965
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,800
right?
Like a, that is a literal thing.
966
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,040
That is a literal thing is like,
oh, they went up and they did
967
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,200
this and they tried to convince
him of this and they da da, da,
968
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,480
da and this and that and the
other.
969
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,960
And then for like kind of the
big moves on things, it's, it's
970
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,160
Satan, it's the devil, it's the
fallen Angel, it's Lucifer
971
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,600
popping up.
That's he, he's making the big
972
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,560
moves, you know, But there's
angels popping and there's like,
973
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,120
look at the story of Job, for
instance, right.
974
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,640
Like within Christianity where
the devil's like, oh, look at
975
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,400
that guy over there.
He's real into it.
976
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,800
But his life's been so fucking
easy.
977
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,320
I bet he would give up on you if
he made it hard.
978
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,960
God fell for a trickster.
God thought he's just started
979
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,440
torturing Job and doing the
worst possible things to him.
980
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,960
He's like, yeah, see, he still
believes me in the Satan's.
981
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,960
Like, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
It kind of seems like he's
982
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,120
slipping and he's just like,
well, that fucking kills kids.
983
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,720
And he seems like, Oh my God,
you actually did that.
984
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,360
I mean, you, Oh my, you, you
actually did that.
985
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,320
Like that's some classic
trickster shit.
986
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,320
Like you are, you are
outsmarting the Almighty, which
987
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,040
is something that tricksters do
in all these creation stories
988
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,680
are a lot of them where it's
like you have Loki outsmarting,
989
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,560
you know, like Odin and shit and
like coming in just being like,
990
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,840
aha, you're the wisest.
Oh, yes, yeah, yeah.
991
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,800
And like tricks them.
Oh my God, it is.
992
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,760
Classic in in Christian like
people who like who who really
993
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,640
get into the theology and like
the history of Christianity and
994
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,320
the history of the devil versus
Satan versus Lucifer or
995
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,760
whatever.
Like a a Satan, a Satan was it
996
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:09,360
was an Angel being used as a
tool by God, right to be put
997
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:14,680
into positions to challenge his
believers to to put them in
998
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,520
positions to have to choose like
absolutely like ultimate
999
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:20,000
trickster.
I love that you went there.
1000
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:25,680
You know, you know when, when,
when God was like freaking
1001
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,560
torturing Job, Satan was just
looking.
1002
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,600
I'm like, damn, did he do that?
Did he make him do I?
1003
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,840
Wouldn't even do that.
That's shitty.
1004
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,880
That's pretty shitty.
That's pretty.
1005
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:42,280
Old Did he just put raisins in
the tuna salad?
1006
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,600
G Oh God.
Instead of grapes.
1007
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,720
What is going on here?
You guys ready for the good
1008
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:51,400
news?
Yeah.
1009
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,160
So.
Yeah, Anansi still is a
1010
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,800
trickster got today and Hoodoo
and they use it.
1011
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,320
They use them as like help
Ananze Ananze.
1012
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,920
You can beckon Ananze to help
you become a better storyteller.
1013
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,520
You can become a better
performing artist, stand up
1014
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,040
comedian, writer, producer, any
kind of performance artist,
1015
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,360
musician.
Cow.
1016
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,960
All for the small fee and tell
me if this sounds familiar.
1017
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:28,040
Gil and Kristen for treats,
liquor, cigarettes or even just
1018
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:32,480
some stories, songs or jokes.
Just like our little buddy down
1019
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,120
in a Pumbero, South America.
Yeah, see.
1020
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,240
Damn it, Pumbero, you get around
a.
1021
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,240
Nazi has Pumbero also.
I need more a Nazi in my life.
1022
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,040
Yeah, just bring out some
treats, liquor, like some
1023
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,360
smokes, pretty much just
literally a Nazi's, just like
1024
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,360
quick Kristen smokes, smokes.
I got you a Nazi slash El pom
1025
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,520
baro.
Honestly, my front porch
1026
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:02,640
constantly.
I'm just trying to summon every
1027
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,520
goddamn entity that's out there
because like I constantly, you
1028
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,000
know, I, I don't sleep that
much.
1029
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,120
I'll be up till 3:00 in the
morning.
1030
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:09,640
I'm drinking a beer.
I'm lazy.
1031
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,560
I'll just like leave half a beer
on my front porch with like a
1032
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,400
bunch of cigarette butts.
Pretty much just like asking for
1033
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,640
it, you know it's.
Basically how you summon fairies
1034
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:25,080
as well.
And El Pom Baro and the Nazi
1035
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,560
and, you know, just.
And all just all of them, just.
1036
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,200
Lonely.
Well, fairies.
1037
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:32,680
In general, they're.
Tricksters, right?
1038
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:34,640
Fairies.
Themselves are tricksters.
1039
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,160
Yes, yes they are.
Absolutely, 100% yeah.
1040
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:39,560
And.
They lived a trick.
1041
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:41,760
They're such.
Little shits.
1042
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,360
Sorry, I didn't know such cutie
pies.
1043
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,240
There's something.
I'm glad I'm taking this and I'm
1044
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:54,320
running with it.
You brought up fairies something
1045
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:59,760
it's tricksters are fascinating.
Just I know I've said that
1046
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,760
40,000 times and we're an hour
and a half or whatever into this
1047
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,120
episode hour and 5 minutes into
this episode.
1048
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:13,080
But you know something that
fairies are known for that so
1049
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,800
many other tricksters are known
for, including a bone barrel is
1050
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:24,240
Why did you say Gil has bears?
I do have bears the the bear
1051
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,600
that lives next to me.
His name is Luffy.
1052
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:34,560
Seeing the videos.
Yeah, I think barely, but, but
1053
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:41,400
barely keeping it together, no.
So it's Tricksters, along with
1054
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:45,880
being able to shapeshift, also
have a notorious reputation for
1055
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,880
warping people's perception,
right.
1056
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,560
Their perception of specifically
their perception of time.
1057
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,640
So making things feel very,
very, very fast, making things
1058
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:01,160
feel very, very, very slow.
Or it feels like, you know, it
1059
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,840
only took 10 seconds, but
actually you were gone for five
1060
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,400
hours or you were gone for five
hours, but it felt like 10
1061
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,960
years, Right.
Yeah this is.
1062
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,440
It's such a classic effect of
tricksters and fairies are known
1063
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,280
for this, specifically of doing
shit like this to you.
1064
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,600
People with their encounters
with Bigfoot have experienced
1065
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:28,680
similar shit. 100% El Pombero
does this exact same shit
1066
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:34,120
entirely and probably most
famously, at least in my mind,
1067
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:37,640
aliens.
Aliens do this shit like a
1068
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,800
motherfucker.
They love to shit on time, they
1069
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:42,640
love to screw people's
perception of time.
1070
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,920
Even the argument about aliens
existing plays a role of can we
1071
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,920
travel faster than light?
Like even the argument around
1072
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,440
their legitimacy comes down to
our perception of time and
1073
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,320
arguing with it.
Which the best argument about
1074
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,360
aliens being able to visit is
that they're able to bend time
1075
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:05,720
and space and travel here.
Yes, this is just a modern
1076
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,360
argument for a trickster.
And I'm not saying it's not
1077
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,760
legitimate.
I want to clarify that because
1078
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,720
it's really easy when we
externalize things away from our
1079
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,560
our general English speaking
culture, which I'm assuming most
1080
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,800
folks listening to this are a
part of the English speaking
1081
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:24,120
culture, right?
It's really easy to externalize
1082
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,280
things as far away in the past
or foreign.
1083
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:31,080
And we kind of like label it as
goofy and strange, but we're not
1084
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,600
coming with the subtleties of
being raised within the culture,
1085
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,960
right?
We're hearing three paragraph
1086
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,360
highlights.
We don't understand how
1087
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,040
significant it is.
And it's the same way that
1088
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,960
anybody hearing about aliens
mocks and laughs at the concept
1089
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:45,280
of aliens.
And they're like, Oh yeah,
1090
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,560
that's stupid.
I can't believe you believe in
1091
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:48,800
that.
It's because they actually
1092
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,800
haven't taken time to dig into
it and recognize that
1093
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,800
legitimacy, right?
Or at least the potential
1094
01:04:54,880 --> 01:05:01,240
legitimacy.
But for this audience, for these
1095
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:08,640
audiences, I should say, all of
our arguments, our most advanced
1096
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,840
arguments, the ones that are
being presented to Congress
1097
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:16,160
right now, are based around
trickster mythology.
1098
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:22,160
It's literally the bending of
perception of time and space
1099
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,000
that goes with it.
It's shape shifting down to the
1100
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:30,680
actual craft itself.
It's being able to imitate
1101
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,880
things, appeared in certain
areas even.
1102
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,240
And this is what's so fucking
great, something tricksters are
1103
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:42,320
known for throughout time.
And you know, it's in that 7580%
1104
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:49,080
of all of them bracket is
advancing society by pushing, by
1105
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:55,480
pushing norms, thoughts and
impressions and concepts around
1106
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,280
trying to understand UFO
technology.
1107
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,720
It literally pushes our
understanding of science and
1108
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:07,200
what we research and try to
develop. 100 fucking percent.
1109
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,960
We are, we are no different than
folks who, you know, look at the
1110
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,160
Anassi or or look at the Valles
or whatever.
1111
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,400
We, we are no fucking different.
And I think that that is so
1112
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,120
important to kind of slap
ourselves.
1113
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,640
At least that's what I try to do
when it comes to like El Pom
1114
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,520
Baro and other things where it's
like, I don't wanna get up on my
1115
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:28,000
high horse and be like, well,
it's like, no, I don't have the
1116
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,360
intricate knowledge.
I'm not on that social level.
1117
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,040
And this is the same shit.
It's everywhere.
1118
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:36,440
It's fucking everywhere.
I don't know, that's my rant on
1119
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,040
that subject, but it's.
That was awesome.
1120
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,720
I loved everywhere we went with
that.
1121
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,080
That's so fucking cool.
Yeah, yes.
1122
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,320
And that's that.
That goes along with kind of how
1123
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,040
how I have been thinking about
it.
1124
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,000
And I think I think you and I
probably arrived at the same
1125
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:53,880
place, but coming from different
ends.
1126
01:06:54,680 --> 01:07:00,280
Like I wasn't introduced to the
trickster concept until my my
1127
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,520
season on UFOs and aliens and
talking to somebody about
1128
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,360
abduction and they introduced
this to me.
1129
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,680
I was like, what does that mean?
You like aliens are like this
1130
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,360
trickster entity.
What does that mean?
1131
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,320
And just going from there,
realizing that all these
1132
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,520
subjects passed, all of these
paranormal entities that I have
1133
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,680
talked about and never thought
the wiser.
1134
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:22,720
They match, they match, they
match.
1135
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,680
Especially ones that go back in
time like fairies.
1136
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:30,280
That hooked me because that
takes the concept of aliens and
1137
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,000
UFOs and it gives it historical
depth.
1138
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,840
I, I can't see a difference
between the stories of fairies
1139
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,960
and their abductions and their
bending of time and their
1140
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,160
abilities and what is taking
place in modern day abduction
1141
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:45,920
accounts.
I do not see the difference
1142
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:47,840
anymore.
I think they are the same thing.
1143
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:52,920
So and then being able to moving
forward tie that into Bigfoot
1144
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,880
accounts and like Bigfoot, yeah,
it's, it's split down the middle
1145
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:00,320
between your, your flesh and
blood apers and then the woo.
1146
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,880
But the woo side, when you look
at the woo stories time and time
1147
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,520
and time again, it is matching
the pattern.
1148
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:11,640
It fits with the same pattern
that aliens fit that with the
1149
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:16,000
same pattern that fairies fit of
these, these trickster behaviors
1150
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,080
and traits.
So that's how I came to it.
1151
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,920
I, I came from it from the
history point, like I just found
1152
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,560
that that sucked me.
And I was like, there's
1153
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:27,359
something here, There's
something here that can explain.
1154
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:29,120
Let the.
It's the tie that binds.
1155
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,880
What if fairy rings are just
landing spots?
1156
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:34,439
Anyways, sorry, I just wanted
to.
1157
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:42,479
I love this happiness that these
these connections are coming you
1158
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,160
guys.
Honestly, nerds.
1159
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:46,920
No, I love it.
The shit's fascinating, like.
1160
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:48,080
It is.
It is.
1161
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,880
I'm taking it Joey.
Another thing too tricksters are
1162
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,600
also really fucking notorious.
They're in that that eight
1163
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:00,040
tenths 9/10 I I forget where I'm
at with my percentage examples
1164
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:05,120
here, but the the majority of
tricksters are also advocates,
1165
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,000
proponents and violent
defenders.
1166
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,880
Sometimes of nature.
Basically, you disrespect nature
1167
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,520
will disrespect you.
That's a constant thing.
1168
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:22,040
What did every single UFO
abductee come back and say with
1169
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,479
their messages about what aliens
were trying to tell them?
1170
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:31,399
Seriously go find a single
fucking abductee anywhere and
1171
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:34,760
ask them it's y'all are going to
fuck up with nuclear weapons.
1172
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,720
Stop harming the planet, you're
poisoning everything.
1173
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,279
Y'all need to chill the fuck
out.
1174
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:44,520
We're trying to have peace here.
Respect the Earth like it's the
1175
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:48,160
same shit.
It is the same shit down to
1176
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:52,720
another trickster classic which
is fucking up travellers,
1177
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,280
misdirecting travellers, people
getting abducted out of their
1178
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:01,360
cars, people getting abducted on
camping trips, people getting
1179
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:06,160
abducted on trip.
It's the exact same thing 100%.
1180
01:10:06,440 --> 01:10:09,720
There is no difference between
somebody out there on a wagon
1181
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,840
who gets fooled by a ferry or
some shit, or on a horse that
1182
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,840
gets fooled by a ferry or some
shit versus a semi truck driver
1183
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,160
on a on a road in the middle of
the night who just all of a
1184
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,440
sudden is like what the hell
just happened and only remembers
1185
01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:25,360
a bright light.
There is no difference between
1186
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:30,680
these two experiences.
For the human right it's and a
1187
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:32,320
lot of times they come back
saying the same shit.
1188
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:38,520
Hey, we should really stop
fucking things up over and over
1189
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,960
again.
I'd just like to interject real
1190
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,240
quick and just give a shout out
to our sponsor, Kwazga's
1191
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,680
shutters and Blinds.
If you don't want us to abduct
1192
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:53,840
you, just shut your blinds and.
I feel official slogan.
1193
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:58,440
Sometimes you need blinds.
That's all that's that's it.
1194
01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:02,880
Keep going, keep going.
Congratulations on on your
1195
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,560
sponsor guys.
Yeah, thank you.
1196
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:08,760
They've been with us since
episode 10, Episode 11.
1197
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:10,160
Until the AI pass.
I'm sorry.
1198
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:14,240
Yeah, Yeah, that's right.
You know, I was just reading the
1199
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,840
last Trickster God, wondering if
I should go into it or if we
1200
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,360
should just go ahead into our
talking points because you guys
1201
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,440
are crushing it already.
Should I go ahead?
1202
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:22,920
I think.
Wait, I don't know.
1203
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:26,640
I've been covering my talking
points throughout, so OK however
1204
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:27,800
you guys want to swing it I.
Think.
1205
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:33,560
I think you should save it and I
think we should hover it in the
1206
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:35,520
behind the scenes and.
Post it.
1207
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:36,920
There we go, it sounds.
Good.
1208
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:38,560
Various patreons.
What?
1209
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,560
Y'all expected a full episode?
Guess what?
1210
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:44,760
It's a trickster episode.
You were never gonna get it.
1211
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,840
But also guess what?
Guess what?
1212
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:49,440
You heard Patreon.
You thought you had to pay.
1213
01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:54,400
You know, we all have free
membership opportunities, and we
1214
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,160
got the links in our show notes.
Thank you very much.
1215
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,560
So we just want a better way to
communicate because if you've
1216
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,600
made it this far in the episode,
you obviously care for our
1217
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:06,680
rambling.
Either you're rage listening,
1218
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:10,200
pleasure listening or pleasure
rage listening.
1219
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,360
If it's anything else, I don't
want to hear what you're doing.
1220
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,400
Yeah, so obviously you give a
fuck.
1221
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:21,160
And we'd love for you to give a
fuck on a regular basis by
1222
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:24,240
staying connected to us at our
various patrons.
1223
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,440
Paranorm girl, find her on
Patreon.
1224
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:28,760
Black Airport, find us on
Patreon.
1225
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,640
It's all there.
But Speaking of that Long ranch,
1226
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:35,200
you know what I would like to do
with it?
1227
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,200
Another thing, tricksters are
known for invisibility.
1228
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,120
All right?
We haven't even touched on that
1229
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,520
shit.
Yeah, tricksters aren't.
1230
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:47,160
They cannot just shape shift and
become anything that they want.
1231
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:50,840
They can also completely become
invisible like aliens.
1232
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:57,680
This is Bigfoot right across the
board.
1233
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,720
Damn, you just delivered that
with some eyes like you saw,
1234
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:03,960
like you seemed.
It I've been ready to fight for
1235
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:05,880
Bigfoot this.
Whole unseen, Ted.
1236
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:09,520
Nobody's fighting you.
No Bigfoot.
1237
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:12,080
Why do you think Bigfoot is
encrypted?
1238
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,520
Or is it not encrypted and is
more of a trickster?
1239
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:16,200
Why do you?
Think Well, I think they just.
1240
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,800
Lay it on me, lay it on.
Us the concept of Bigfoot
1241
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,240
itself, it is encrypted.
It is encrypted yeah.
1242
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:25,200
I am not saying one side or the
other is I will say that the ape
1243
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,480
only side they do have a shit
ton of proof.
1244
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:32,040
They have so much proof, more
than enough proof, a mountain.
1245
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:37,960
But I've spoken to some or an
erotica novel.
1246
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,080
I, I, I've spoken to enough
people on the other side of the
1247
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:46,000
aisle and listen to their
stories and listen to what drew
1248
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,640
me.
What draws me into that side is
1249
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:52,080
the pattern and that it's
consistent across the board.
1250
01:13:53,480 --> 01:13:56,320
And so I, I, you know, I'm not
going to be close minded to
1251
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,080
that.
I still need to dig even further
1252
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,000
into it.
I am open to it.
1253
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,000
Yeah.
I'm not necessarily on the side
1254
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:05,960
that it is absolutely this
trickster thing.
1255
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,360
But I do want to keep pushing it
out there, putting it out there
1256
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:11,800
into the universe that, you
know, look at this, look at
1257
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:12,800
this.
It matches.
1258
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:14,520
It matches.
It belongs here.
1259
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,160
That's all.
Yeah.
1260
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:23,680
So if I can add this to maybe
what you both are kind of
1261
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:28,240
putting forth in this cause GAIL
is, is real staunch and adding
1262
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,240
into this that hey, maybe aliens
are tricksters, you know, maybe
1263
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,080
tricksters are aliens.
Maybe it's a mixture, you know,
1264
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,760
maybe go ahead.
You can correct me if I'm wrong.
1265
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:43,000
I'm not wrong.
Cool.
1266
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,200
I'll keep going.
And Kristen, you're, you're
1267
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,920
talking about how, you know,
cryptids and or or at least
1268
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,720
Bigfoot in this other area,
which in some people say flesh
1269
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:57,560
and blood, some people say it
could be an idea more than
1270
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:02,000
anything, a trickster that maybe
these tricksters are from.
1271
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:04,560
Can I posit this to go a little
deeper?
1272
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,720
Are from another realm of
existence, you know, and they
1273
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:13,760
talk about angels being that you
know, and that may be another
1274
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:20,040
dimension that we don't know of.
Absolutely, yeah.
1275
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,400
Because they obviously they,
they don't abide by that's,
1276
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:28,160
that's the main distinction
between us and them is while
1277
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:32,000
they they can be physical and
exist in this physical
1278
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,880
dimension, they don't always,
they don't abide by the same
1279
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,680
rules.
So yeah, I, I, I think it's, you
1280
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:43,320
know, suffice it to say, I think
they are in from another
1281
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,600
dimension, another place,
something.
1282
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,240
Well into into my thoughts
behind it.
1283
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,720
I wonder like where where I I
think of it and the idea of how
1284
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:59,160
I come through tricksters.
Is it is it a physical being?
1285
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:01,440
You know cuz we always ask this
too.
1286
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:04,520
It's like, and, and with
different cultures and just
1287
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:08,000
studying the different, the
different trickster gods and
1288
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,120
goddesses and spirits in the
different cultures is that in
1289
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:15,680
some cultures it seems like
there is a physical being in
1290
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:20,040
presence.
You know, with, with with the
1291
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,160
indigenous.
They talk about the coyote being
1292
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,200
that and a coyote is a physical
being, just like Gil talking
1293
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,760
about it earlier.
Did the is the, you know,
1294
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:33,440
chicken or the egg?
Was the coyote just the, you
1295
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:36,320
know, just the exact description
of the trickster God or did the
1296
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,320
trickster God inhabit the coyote
to give it those, those
1297
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,760
characteristics?
And that's kind of how I think
1298
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:44,640
of it.
Or is it just like, you know,
1299
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:48,680
with, I guess I, you know, in
Norse mythology, they actually
1300
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,680
thought they were real.
They they thought that the gods
1301
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,520
were up on, you know, looking
down on them.
1302
01:16:54,480 --> 01:16:58,640
One quick, easy note here.
Wiley Coyote, right?
1303
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:04,560
Wiley Coyote, what's completely
made-up is a caricature, right?
1304
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,560
Has a whole set of history, has
a whole set of stories.
1305
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,560
Culturally, pretty, pretty well
understood.
1306
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,680
I would say like 7 out of 10
folks are going to describe
1307
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,840
Wiley Coyote the exact same way
If you're talking to anybody in
1308
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,480
North America, right?
Anybody that's been raised in
1309
01:17:21,480 --> 01:17:23,640
North America, they're going to
explain Wiley Coyote the same
1310
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:29,880
way based off of loosely literal
fucking coyotes.
1311
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:35,040
So take this, however, just
because Wiley Coyote if, if
1312
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:39,320
coyotes went extinct and human
history got wiped out, at least
1313
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:42,720
the long memory of it and the
bones were all destroyed and
1314
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,760
they're like, oh, they had this
character and look at the
1315
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:46,680
depictions of him and da da, da,
da, da.
1316
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,040
And this is how most folks
described him over here.
1317
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:50,600
Some folks described him over
here.
1318
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,920
There might be an argument for
whether or not Wiley, you know,
1319
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,760
coyotes were real basically
because they were like, well,
1320
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,960
no, look at obviously, like, you
know, he was in these fights
1321
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,360
with their brother.
There's no there's no possible
1322
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:06,280
way there was an animal throwing
dynamite like this is insane.
1323
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:11,760
You know, like, so we have to
look at history, especially when
1324
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:16,920
you're getting back into like
900 something AD right where
1325
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,480
it's just like you started off
by saying, yeah, I could barely
1326
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:22,120
find shit on them.
Yeah, we don't have shit on
1327
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:23,760
them.
But there were people getting
1328
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,760
together to sign Underoath with
their name.
1329
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,760
This was culturally understood,
culturally relevant in that way.
1330
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:33,760
It was that was significant
across different regions, right.
1331
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,480
But it begs the question, so
Wiley Coyote is not literally
1332
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:44,880
real, just a, a symbology of
representation of caricature,
1333
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,560
right?
Coyotes are real.
1334
01:18:48,440 --> 01:18:51,320
The cultural memory is real,
right?
1335
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,000
That culture memory can get
faded and changes on person to
1336
01:18:55,000 --> 01:19:01,440
person.
What does that mean for gods
1337
01:19:01,440 --> 01:19:06,840
just in general, right?
So does that mean that again,
1338
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:08,680
which came first, the chicken or
the egg?
1339
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:13,680
I think that that has a lot to
do with just our place in time
1340
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:18,040
and realization because we're
able to at this point in
1341
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,880
history, in 2000 years, I don't
think we will be able to at this
1342
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:24,240
point in history, we're able to
say coyotes existed before Wiley
1343
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,120
Coyote.
Right.
1344
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:30,960
But in 2000 years, people might
look back and be like, I don't
1345
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,440
know, it's still debated on
whether or not there was a wild
1346
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:38,080
canine running around.
Like they might literally say
1347
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,680
that.
And just how we look at like,
1348
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:44,080
you know, this crazy bird
Dragons that or you know, the
1349
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:47,600
spiders with human arms and legs
and shit like that.
1350
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:50,920
Like these.
We have to look at it the same
1351
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:51,920
fucking way.
I don't know.
1352
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,360
I just don't think humans have
gotten any smarter or Dumber
1353
01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:58,120
throughout history.
I think we've pretty much
1354
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:01,000
coasted on the same level of
stupidity.
1355
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,160
Which which goes to show in the
fact that we have to keep
1356
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:09,920
relearning the same historical
lessons like in the 1930s.
1357
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:14,160
But now in America, that's it's,
it's a different story.
1358
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:20,400
I I think, yeah.
But it's this is hard to fucking
1359
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,520
it's tricksters, man.
Tricksters are fucking
1360
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:26,960
tricksters all the way around
because they're they're
1361
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,400
inherent.
Nature says you can't prove me,
1362
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:34,960
bitch, but everybody talks about
me like you ain't got a photo of
1363
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:36,680
me, but everybody can describe
me.
1364
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:41,640
You don't know what I can do,
but everyone knows what I've
1365
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,400
done and it's just like God damn
Trickster.
1366
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,480
I have no name, but everyone has
a name for me.
1367
01:20:49,480 --> 01:20:54,120
It's just like, stop it.
Stop it over everything about
1368
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:55,440
it.
This, this came up with El Pom
1369
01:20:55,440 --> 01:20:58,920
Baro where it's like it drove me
fucking insane again.
1370
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,680
Please folks, anybody near to
me, anybody that loves me, reach
1371
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:04,080
out to me.
I'm in need of help.
1372
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,680
Don't let me look into
tricksters again because I go
1373
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,680
insane.
I'm too literal of a person when
1374
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,400
it comes to research and I had
to literally flip to fucking
1375
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:18,400
tabloids to the sensational
clickbait articles in order to
1376
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:23,480
research tricksters because in
the true trickster fashion, the
1377
01:21:23,480 --> 01:21:27,240
most illegitimate thing was the
most legitimate thing.
1378
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:31,440
And like, which was like a five
days after the episode was
1379
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:33,680
supposed to be released.
I'm like, I understand what I
1380
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:37,320
should do now because the
historical records fucking
1381
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:39,440
sucked and they all disagreed
with each other.
1382
01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:42,040
Slash.
The sources weren't reliable
1383
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,240
because it was a bunch of
fucking Christians coming in and
1384
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,480
being like, I don't know, Craig
said it was Brown.
1385
01:21:46,480 --> 01:21:48,200
Whatever.
Anyways, we killed him.
1386
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:52,000
Like it was all bullshit.
You know, it was hard to.
1387
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:53,440
I was like, I don't want to
listen to this guy.
1388
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,200
He killed Craig.
I love Craig.
1389
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:56,960
So the.
Best.
1390
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:00,760
But to in order to get this
understanding of something that
1391
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:04,120
everybody knows about but isn't
well documented, I had to go
1392
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,640
into click bait articles, which
are great for having one very
1393
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:13,640
strong quote that they just
expand upon afterwards.
1394
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:15,480
And there's a bunch of bullshit
added to it.
1395
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,440
And that was the only way I
could get direct quotes from
1396
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:23,680
folks within this culture,
within the society where folks
1397
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,360
experience, live with and
understand El Pombero.
1398
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,440
And I was like, you fuck El
Pombero, you son of a bitch.
1399
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,360
The trust the worst thing in
order to find the most legit
1400
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:37,160
evidence, which is the
brilliance of tricksters, right?
1401
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,480
Just as a as a goddamn whole.
And this comes down, this comes
1402
01:22:40,480 --> 01:22:44,360
back to to throw it back to
Chris, this comes back to
1403
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:48,360
Bigfoot.
Every Bigfoot, every Bigfoot
1404
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:57,200
nerd, bigfooter, if you will,
loves good casting of a
1405
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:01,160
Bigfootprint.
Yes, every every one of them
1406
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:07,120
does every this is, you know,
safe to say universal, yet
1407
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:12,240
they're interdimensional right
yet they're they're shifting
1408
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,880
between dimensions, but they're
living in physical traces.
1409
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:18,760
This goes back to the trickster,
you know, just existence where
1410
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:22,360
it's just like the even within
the culture, it's this desperate
1411
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:28,440
need to show physical evidence
while acknowledging this extra
1412
01:23:28,440 --> 01:23:33,400
temporal type of like existence
around things where she's like
1413
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,680
we've got the footprints we you
know everybody sends off hair
1414
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:38,640
samples, but you never really
hear about them afterwards.
1415
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:45,880
But but there's always this
fight for for the physical, but
1416
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,920
complete lack of physical at the
same time.
1417
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,160
Well, that, and that's where
you're, yeah, you run in your,
1418
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,320
into your dividing line there.
And that just goes back into
1419
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:58,520
people desperately trying to
conceptualize things and stick
1420
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:02,160
them into a box so that I can
understand it with my stupid
1421
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,520
human brain.
And that's where you run into
1422
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:08,120
the line that divides like, you
know, the the footprints,
1423
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,720
they're awesome.
The people that are on that
1424
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:14,360
eight only side.
It is a physical creature, duh.
1425
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,320
It is a physical creature.
It's totally it's it's an
1426
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:21,000
undiscovered 8.
It's a descendant of what's the
1427
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:25,200
word Gigantopithecus?
I don't know.
1428
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:27,840
It's a little harder to explain
that physical footprint if
1429
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,560
you're on the other on on the
woo side, just that they're
1430
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,200
physical while they're here.
They abide by our rules while
1431
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,480
they're here.
It's.
1432
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,920
Fun to think about, right?
On our reality while they're
1433
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,520
here.
Yep, Yep, they.
1434
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:45,400
Shout it and dip the fuck out
real quick.
1435
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:50,800
You know it's you know, in the
same way I could say the word
1436
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,160
lion.
But what is a lion symbolize?
1437
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:58,520
A lion.
Royalty, Royalty.
1438
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:00,160
Nobility just.
Wisdom.
1439
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:02,920
Yeah, respect as long for the
upper class.
1440
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:06,520
Purridge strength, right?
Yeah, strength, Things like
1441
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:07,960
that.
These are completely understood.
1442
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:12,560
Lions still exist.
And just because we have this
1443
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:17,000
shared, agreed upon like
symbology behind it doesn't mean
1444
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:18,960
that lions don't exist.
The same way that we have a
1445
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:21,240
shared understanding of a
cartoon doesn't mean coyotes
1446
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:26,400
don't exist, you know?
And tricksters play this exact
1447
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:28,680
spot, which is so perfect for
them.
1448
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:30,920
There's that thing that's always
going to get away but be right
1449
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:37,160
in front of you, you know?
Skirts, motherfuckers.
1450
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:40,480
I love them so much.
I think I'd get a tattoo of
1451
01:25:40,480 --> 01:25:42,080
Trickster, but I don't know what
to get I.
1452
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:48,560
Think El Pombero for sure.
I think the idea.
1453
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,160
A large mole.
You need to go to a
1454
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:55,040
dermatologist.
It is that a tattoo of two
1455
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:58,000
partially deflated basketball
and basketball stuffed.
1456
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:00,200
Into each other.
Black pillow case.
1457
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,800
Why yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
1458
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:09,320
You know, you know me.
I always think of the idea of
1459
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,080
like, and when we talk about the
physical, just like with Bigfoot
1460
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,640
and like if we talk about
tricksters in general and that
1461
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,920
the cultural part of it is that
I would love so much.
1462
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:21,640
And I think a lot of people
would love to go back into that
1463
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:25,480
like time period with that
culture and be like, do you, is
1464
01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:28,200
this a physical thing in your
life every day?
1465
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:34,240
And for some of it, I imagine
they'll say it mattered to us.
1466
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:37,920
It might not be physical, but it
might just be just as real
1467
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:40,720
because of the way that these
stories or the way that these
1468
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:44,520
things affect how we live our
lives every day.
1469
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:47,200
You know, like you talked about
pushing up against the
1470
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:51,640
boundaries of life and depending
on which culture, which area of
1471
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:53,920
the world, some of them have
different ways of how they view
1472
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:58,200
their tricksters.
Like we talked about, I'm trying
1473
01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:00,520
not to talk about the indigenous
peoples one, because we'll talk
1474
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:02,760
about that in the the behind the
scenes.
1475
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,920
But exactly.
So there's your note to follow
1476
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:08,360
us to get the behind the scenes
too.
1477
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:14,920
But talking about like Veylis
and that it was more of like not
1478
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:18,120
really bad, but it still wasn't
looked on as good.
1479
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:21,280
You know, Veylis wasn't like a
great theme.
1480
01:27:21,480 --> 01:27:27,160
But then we talked about like
Ananzi, you know, Ananzi.
1481
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:31,360
And Ananzi was like became like
almost like a champion of the
1482
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:35,120
people, you know, and that it
was also part of it.
1483
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,720
So I think it just changed how
tricksters are viewed as how
1484
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:42,040
real they are is where who's
viewing them.
1485
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:45,920
And just like you guys talked
about your tulpas is the same
1486
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:49,280
idea is that if you view them
more as real, you can create
1487
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:54,080
that identity into reality, but
if you view it as less real, it
1488
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:55,640
goes away.
I mean, it's just the idea of
1489
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:58,800
freaking, you know, believe in
me, believe in me.
1490
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:00,400
You know, like Tinkerbell, when
you're trying to believe in
1491
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:01,960
Tinkerbell, to believe in her,
you got it.
1492
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:03,520
To keep her real, you got to
believe in her.
1493
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,760
You know, Santa Claus, you know,
if you watch elf, you know, that
1494
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:10,040
believability to get him to fly.
So it's like I think of that
1495
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:15,280
idea is it just depends on the
culture, how real life it is,
1496
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:20,920
you know, and putting it into
animals makes it even more real
1497
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:24,400
because then because we don't
really know what animals are
1498
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:27,880
thinking in general, nobody has
come up with the moment of
1499
01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:32,720
animal translator.
So being able to translate what
1500
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:36,360
an animal not yet, but getting
there about what an animal's
1501
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:40,480
thinking so you can inject what
your thoughts are onto that
1502
01:28:40,480 --> 01:28:43,840
animal or your characteristics,
even if they have some similar
1503
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,040
characteristics.
Like we talked about the coyote.
1504
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:50,040
So I always think about the idea
of like how real something is
1505
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:54,560
depends on the culture that's
creating it or viewing it, you
1506
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:56,680
know?
And for me, that's such a cool
1507
01:28:56,680 --> 01:29:01,200
thing to see is like, it just
matters in their everyday life
1508
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,280
compared to ours.
So it'd be amazing to go back
1509
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,880
and be like, how real are these
stories that you're telling?
1510
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,280
Like, let's talk about the
indigenous people.
1511
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,600
How real are these stories
you're talking about?
1512
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,240
Like you're telling your kids
over a campfire like this, you
1513
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:20,280
know, came in and stole a
coyote's like you can't think of
1514
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,320
the exact story at the moment,
not reading it, but came and
1515
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:26,600
basically stole the coyotes like
food and tricked him.
1516
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:30,200
How real was that?
Did you see a coyote and that
1517
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:31,840
happened?
You're just like, Dang, that's
1518
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,040
pretty tricky.
That's a tricky coyote.
1519
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,480
Came and took my baby, yeah.
Dinga came and took my baby, so
1520
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:42,640
I always like that idea is that
Seinfeld for the win is that
1521
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:46,000
it's just real compared to the
culture that you look at, you
1522
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,360
know?
Right.
1523
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,400
Yeah.
But at the same time, we never,
1524
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:57,000
we never fucking know if it's
applying symbology to something
1525
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:58,760
that exists.
It don't.
1526
01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:01,840
Because we're not there.
Sorry, you know, I didn't mean
1527
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:05,760
to cut you off, but I was I.
Was just going to add on to
1528
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:09,840
that, that it's what's real
seems to be whatever the group
1529
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:13,960
of people is entirely focused on
what's important to them,
1530
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:20,240
whether symbol, symbol logically
or or ideologically or or in
1531
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:23,600
their physical world, what's
what's the most important thing
1532
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,000
to them?
What do they focus on?
1533
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:29,440
You know, interesting.
To see there about that behind
1534
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:33,960
the scenes, oh.
Girl, girl, there was a story
1535
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:36,280
which I'm I'm going to tell
behind the scenes as well, but
1536
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:37,680
we'll, we'll give them a little
teaser.
1537
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,520
Painted Rock.
I seem to recall the story at
1538
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,880
Painted Rock and I feel so bad I
cannot remember the tribe.
1539
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:46,920
Dee, if you're in the chat, help
me out.
1540
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:52,560
There was this human origin
story about how humanity was
1541
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:56,840
actually created.
And there are these paintings on
1542
01:30:56,840 --> 01:31:00,560
on the Rock and you can still
see them today of a daddy
1543
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,680
Bigfoot, a mommy Bigfoot and
their little baby Bigfoot.
1544
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:06,960
And it's just it, it goes
through this whole story about
1545
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,880
how the old animals got together
to create humans.
1546
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:14,280
And I do recall there's
something to do with a oh,
1547
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:18,960
goodnight, Alex, something to do
with a coyote in that story
1548
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:21,760
being part of that creation
process.
1549
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:24,040
So I'll I'll tell that
backstage.
1550
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:28,800
It seems like that the Painted
Rock tribe was probably in
1551
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:34,880
Arizona in the Southwest.
No, I wanted to say it's, it's
1552
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:37,080
it's in the north.
It's in the northwest.
1553
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:41,080
Oh, gosh, Dwayne, help me.
It's in the Northwest somewhere.
1554
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:45,760
Or California.
Shoot, I'm looking to look it up
1555
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:47,200
right now.
Yeah, please look it up.
1556
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:50,080
Yeah.
The painted, painted rock.
1557
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:52,040
And it's crying, crying Bigfoot.
Damn.
1558
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:57,520
Central Texas.
Because they're sad.
1559
01:31:57,640 --> 01:31:59,640
They're sad.
I think they ghosted.
1560
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,920
I mean, I feel like it was
probably many tribes that they
1561
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:05,800
have a bunch of.
I'm just looking at painted
1562
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:06,600
rocks.
In general, but.
1563
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,120
I'm going way off just.
Painting off all the painted
1564
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:13,000
rocks, I'm just.
Finding rocks with googly eyes.
1565
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,720
Like Texas, apparently.
It's, it's been a long time
1566
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:20,960
since I read that story, so
yeah, I blame my old brain, but
1567
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:29,240
yeah. 25 year old brain.
Whole 25 years, yeah.
1568
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,760
Any final thoughts?
Did we want to take it backstage
1569
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:36,480
for the rest of our chat?
Take it backstage.
1570
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,040
Yeah, I think K boost that we
got a.
1571
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:40,280
Where is it?
A bit of stuff.
1572
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:42,560
You crushed it.
You did a great.
1573
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,200
Job.
This episode thank you so much
1574
01:32:45,480 --> 01:32:49,080
seriously you really did and and
thank you to us.
1575
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:57,400
Thank you K boost you're killing
it from paranorm girl pod and me
1576
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:02,440
and Gil are black cat report.
We are just hello normally here.
1577
01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:05,760
This is what we do.
We, you know what we do like
1578
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:09,160
each other sometimes.
Quite a bit.
1579
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:13,040
Yeah, just a bit.
But hey, booze, do you want to
1580
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:20,000
give them some of your info?
Sure, you can find and follow
1581
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:24,720
the show on all socials at
Paranorm Girl Pod across the
1582
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:28,760
board.
You can also catch biweekly
1583
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,640
episodes of the show on all
listening platforms and catch
1584
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:37,160
all episodes of the show on
YouTube in video format, YouTube
1585
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:41,200
and sometimes Twitch.
Hell yeah.
1586
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,960
Gil, you want to give us our
information for KB Sherry?
1587
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:52,480
Black Cat Report, it's pretty,
pretty easy to find us.
1588
01:33:52,480 --> 01:33:55,120
There's not a lot of thing.
If you're finding literal
1589
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:57,880
reports of Black Cats, that's
not us.
1590
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:05,440
But the podcast dedicated to
paranormal, true crime, strange
1591
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:09,760
history and of course UFOs.
That's us.
1592
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:15,280
And we do a show once a week,
supposed to be on Sundays.
1593
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:18,520
But ever since the Time
Traveller series, we did.
1594
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,320
What is time?
Yeah, but find us pretty much
1595
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:24,720
anywhere.
And if you don't find us
1596
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:29,480
somewhere, reach out to us
contact at black cat dot report
1597
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:31,000
and we'll send you a free
sticker.
1598
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:33,680
We got a running bounty on that.
So we do.
1599
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:35,720
And K boost.
All right.
1600
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:38,160
Thank you for having us on.
Your channel?
1601
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,440
Yeah.
Oh, and thank you guys for
1602
01:34:40,440 --> 01:34:42,840
coming on my show.
This was awesome.
1603
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:47,320
You should collab more often.
100 cents.
1604
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:50,640
We should, yeah.
I don't know if you want to
1605
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:52,280
thank the Patreon listeners or
not.
1606
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:54,680
Yes.
You can think yours.
1607
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:55,760
We'll, we'll just switch.
Them up.
1608
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:57,120
No, no, no.
Go for it.
1609
01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:58,400
No, no.
All right.
1610
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:02,320
I don't have my list.
Well, we'll thank them with the
1611
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:04,240
exclusive content that's coming
up next.
1612
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:10,680
By the way, hit us up on
patreonpatreon.com/i'm assuming
1613
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:14,120
Paranorm Girl.
It might be something else.
1614
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:16,760
I guarantee you it's the only
one coming up for Paranorm Girl
1615
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:22,920
and patreon.com/blackcat Report.
It also might be something else.
1616
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:25,080
This is a Trickster episode.
Haven't you learned anything?
1617
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:27,680
But the point is, type it in,
you'll find us.
1618
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:29,760
And if you don't find us, how
the hell did you find this
1619
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:32,520
video?
We love you all, Bye.