Chat_174 - Preparing Bitcoin for an Unknown Future with Hunter Beast

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,300
I'm almost 99% certain that 110 will activate.
2
00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:12,640
And not only that, I think there will be a capitulation after October,
3
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,780
where if the month of October passes and 110 is still not merged by core devs,
4
00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:20,660
it essentially reflects that they are no longer relevant
5
00:00:20,660 --> 00:00:22,940
because they failed to be good stewards of the protocol.
6
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:41,720
What is up, guys? Welcome back to the show.
7
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,480
I am Guy Swan, the guy who has read more about Bitcoin than anybody else you know.
8
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:52,320
This show is brought to you by the Bitbox hardware wallet from Shift Crypto.
9
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,540
These guys have been longtime builders in the Bitcoin space,
10
00:00:56,540 --> 00:00:58,800
and I have loved their hardware wallet,
11
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,860
their software wallet, their entire stack.
12
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,800
Everything about their setup is just fun
13
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,720
and kind of elegant, honestly.
14
00:01:07,420 --> 00:01:08,840
And I've been recommending them for,
15
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,660
since I knew about them,
16
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,580
I have like four of them or something like that myself.
17
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,900
And I can get you guys a discount.
18
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,620
I have a discount code right down in the show notes.
19
00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:24,520
Guy, I believe, G-U-Y, gives you 5% off.
20
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:30,940
And also, it's actually a huge way to help out the show, to let them know that I'm the one who sent you there.
21
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,780
And if you don't have a hardware wallet and you're not holding your own keys, you need to go ahead and just do that.
22
00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:40,560
And if you have a couple hardware wallets, it's probably not a bad idea to get a bit box into the mix.
23
00:01:41,220 --> 00:01:43,580
Anyway, check out the link and the description.
24
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,280
Also, a second note here.
25
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,620
We have a new YouTube channel.
26
00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:56,800
And because we've separated out the more concise guys take video content that we have shifted towards.
27
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:02,520
We are now a video first company, I guess you could say, or production.
28
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,800
And that's the way we've been headed for quite some time.
29
00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:08,980
And so we decided to separate that out from the chats.
30
00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,000
So Bitcoin Audible still has its own YouTube channel.
31
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:19,180
but the guys takes themselves because they're shorter form and they're more direct or specific
32
00:02:19,180 --> 00:02:27,680
to a single topic it now has guys take as a single channel so check that out you should see in the
33
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,820
the guy swan channel or whatever some that are partnered with guys take but don't forget to
34
00:02:32,820 --> 00:02:37,460
check that one out subscribe share it out and browse around if you haven't we've got like four
35
00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:40,740
or five videos up there so far and I'm really excited.
36
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,440
I really enjoy the content type and I think it's going to be great, but obviously, you
37
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,140
know, I got to get it out there.
38
00:02:46,380 --> 00:02:50,880
So anybody who can spread the word a little bit and subscribe and like, if you haven't,
39
00:02:51,220 --> 00:02:52,420
please go over there and check that out.
40
00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:54,380
I will have the link right down in the show notes as well.
41
00:02:55,020 --> 00:02:57,640
Today we have a trip of a show.
42
00:02:58,420 --> 00:03:03,660
So we have Hunter Beast back on and anybody who knows talking to Hunter Beast always goes
43
00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:07,480
into some crazy out there thing.
44
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:13,900
But then interestingly, somehow he is able to kind of like loop it back as to why it matters.
45
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:22,060
And the number of things that he is interested in and is digging into and is building with
46
00:03:22,060 --> 00:03:24,300
is really kind of amazing.
47
00:03:24,420 --> 00:03:29,400
I always have fascinating conversations with the guy and he's just like a little bit crazy
48
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:35,800
enough to like believe to actually go after things that seem like oh you'll never be able to do that
49
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,300
but it's like one of those things like i don't know you know it's it's because people don't
50
00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:46,000
believe they can actually go there and do that thing that it doesn't get tried and so i've always
51
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,840
been fascinated he's been building some really interesting stuff in multiple different ways and
52
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,720
it's hard to just completely dismiss that he won't be able to do some of those other ones
53
00:03:54,720 --> 00:04:08,980
So we go down a sprawling path and we end up actually talking, looping a lot of the conversation back around to what an unknowable future we're headed into and how to prepare Bitcoin for it.
54
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:19,840
And specifically what it all means for Bit110 and the current conflict in the Bitcoin space.
55
00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:41,040
So really interesting. And I wish I had more time to actually pull on some of the threads. But I think you guys will like this conversation. We've set up to do a follow up after the whole Bit.1.10 thing happens, just so I can get his perspective and see how his thinking now looks in hindsight.
56
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,520
So we will have him back on the show.
57
00:04:43,740 --> 00:04:46,620
But for now, I hope you guys enjoyed this one.
58
00:04:47,060 --> 00:04:51,200
This is Preparing Bitcoin for an Unknown Future with Hunter Beast.
59
00:04:54,140 --> 00:04:56,020
Well, dude, officially welcome to the show.
60
00:04:57,020 --> 00:04:57,220
Thank you.
61
00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,440
We did a show, right?
62
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:00,980
We did the show on Quantum.
63
00:05:01,540 --> 00:05:03,700
Or do we just like talk about this in private many times?
64
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:05,980
We talk about it all the time, bud.
65
00:05:05,980 --> 00:05:13,840
yeah um well welcome back uh for the first time or the second time i don't remember i'll link to
66
00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:17,660
it if we if we've already had this conversation uh in public because i know we've just chatted a
67
00:05:17,660 --> 00:05:25,180
bunch of it other times um but uh uh we had uh had a lot of a lot of fun i feel like we had a
68
00:05:25,180 --> 00:05:29,860
bunch of great conversations at uh the time chain summit and you know we talked about a bunch of
69
00:05:29,860 --> 00:05:35,340
things that it was right that was really really cool yeah um and a shout out to the guys at the
70
00:05:35,340 --> 00:05:41,500
space by the way um but we got into a whole bunch of stuff that i just felt like i know
71
00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:47,720
i just knew a bunch of people in the audience would really appreciate um and one of the things
72
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,940
that i'm not sure if there was anything other specific that you wanted to get into but feel
73
00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:58,840
free to to dive into something else if there's something you wanted to bring up but um the
74
00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:04,460
place that i actually want to start the show before we get to something like bit 110 or
75
00:06:04,460 --> 00:06:10,240
maybe the BIPs about keys and that sort of thing,
76
00:06:10,300 --> 00:06:12,500
because there's just a bunch of things to unpack with Bitcoin,
77
00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:15,660
is I want to start and continue this thread with AI a little bit
78
00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:16,560
because you're building,
79
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,300
and I don't know what you're sharing publicly yet about this,
80
00:06:21,380 --> 00:06:23,200
but you're building some really interesting tools
81
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,400
and you've been super active
82
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,360
and there's been a lot of people who've been doing stuff with AI
83
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,440
and Bitcoin in conjunction that I've been kind of fascinated by.
84
00:06:32,440 --> 00:07:01,020
That is a great place to start. So I've been somewhat public about everything I'm working on. I mean, if something I'm working on isn't public, it's for one of two reasons. I haven't found the time to review it and push it yet to my GitHub. Or two, it's like a red hot radioactive hot potato that could basically end Bitcoin.
85
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,460
which one do you want to talk about let's talk about the hot potato
86
00:07:06,460 --> 00:07:12,120
oh i mean i i really kind of don't want to talk about it honestly
87
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:18,200
not until like it won't work you know okay like because because like
88
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:27,860
i would love to come back to that conversation uh maybe in september like at the soonest okay
89
00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:31,840
okay so you're working on something that you're trying to
90
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:39,480
whether or not this is about like keys or quantum or anything but just in general you're working on
91
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:49,780
something to see if you can cause a problem on the network wait a second no no wait uh if i can
92
00:07:49,780 --> 00:07:54,380
cause a problem that's that's a bold claim dude um sure well i don't mean it that like you can do
93
00:07:54,380 --> 00:07:57,700
You can cause a problem on your computer.
94
00:07:57,940 --> 00:08:04,380
I mean, you're looking for a vulnerability in Bitcoin and you have some theory as to why there may be a problem.
95
00:08:04,380 --> 00:08:07,100
Yeah, well, I mean, there are a lot of problems in Bitcoin.
96
00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:08,060
Sure.
97
00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:15,920
And I've been doing the work to prove that, that there are problems in Bitcoin that we need to make changes for.
98
00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:16,900
Here's what I will say.
99
00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:22,880
I predict that there's going to be a bit of a paradigm shift in Bitcoin development and governance in the future.
100
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:29,880
And I predict that the ossifiers were right in that we're not going to add a bunch of crap to Bitcoin.
101
00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:38,940
Like we're not going to add covenants or we're not going to add stark proof verifiers.
102
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:40,620
We're not going to add opcat.
103
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,560
We're not going to add simplicity.
104
00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:46,400
Right.
105
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,260
We're not going to add that crap to layer one.
106
00:08:49,140 --> 00:08:50,440
What's going to happen, though?
107
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,420
It's not that Bitcoin is never going to change.
108
00:08:52,420 --> 00:09:12,260
What's probably going to happen, if I have any say in it, is Bitcoin will only change whenever there is something that will prevent it from working in a way that would essentially prevent it from working as we expect it to well into the future.
109
00:09:12,820 --> 00:09:19,220
We have to understand, we have to remember, Bitcoin is fundamentally exjudicial in nature.
110
00:09:19,220 --> 00:09:26,420
It is, its operation is more firmly rooted in natural law than the laws of man.
111
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:36,340
Because you tell me, like, what jurisdiction does, like, is a Bitcoin crime, you know, tried it, right?
112
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:37,360
It's not, right?
113
00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,360
So, like, you have to remember that.
114
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,640
What matters are the actual nodes that we're using and building.
115
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:52,220
Right. And so let's just say I've developed a bit of an interest in formal verification and Lean4 in particular.
116
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,600
Have you heard of Lean?
117
00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:01,860
Not off the top of my head. I mean, it sounds the word sounds familiar, but I couldn't even tell you what it was about or what it's in reference to.
118
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:13,120
Well, Lean4 is a self-hosted dependent type system that so like for you to understand like how powerful this is, like.
119
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,480
It makes Rust look like a child's toy.
120
00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:17,940
Okay.
121
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,940
Mentally, I've moved on from Rust.
122
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:27,900
Rust for me is like, maybe that's good for graphics and windowing.
123
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,080
In my mind, Rust has been relegated to where I once put JavaScript.
124
00:10:35,220 --> 00:10:42,220
And now I think all the serious software in the future will be proven in what I call systems lean.
125
00:10:42,220 --> 00:10:44,220
It is something I've been working on.
126
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:55,100
Essentially, for you to understand that, and for your viewers to understand what I'm working on, I recommend you look up something called a lambda cube.
127
00:10:55,900 --> 00:11:09,940
So a lambda cube essentially illustrates, it has arrows, and it kind of illustrates three different dimensions of a type system according to a subset of category theory.
128
00:11:09,940 --> 00:11:16,220
and it's an older mental model but it's helpful like just like maybe first like category theory
129
00:11:16,220 --> 00:11:25,460
like there was a funny um meme running going around recently cloud teach me uh enough category
130
00:11:25,460 --> 00:11:31,320
theory to sound like an asshole and so that's if you want that like you got to start with the
131
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:37,300
lambda cube and what's called the calculus of constructions and so the calculus of constructions
132
00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:44,100
essentially like as close as we can get to solving these different constraints in the lambda cube
133
00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:50,880
one of them is essentially dependent types if you can have a fully expressive dependent type system
134
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:57,460
a type that depends on another type that essentially uh allows you to do some really
135
00:11:57,460 --> 00:12:04,340
powerful stuff and there's an evolution on that framework called qtt or quantitative type theory
136
00:12:04,340 --> 00:12:09,680
which has been sort of pioneered by or maybe not pioneered but like it resulted in
137
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:18,140
somewhere called aegis 2. Aegis 2 is very interesting to me but it's unfortunately it's
138
00:12:18,140 --> 00:12:24,860
just not as rigorous as lean 4 and other dimensions and so there is another thing called
139
00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:30,320
bentu that that a guy recently is working on I forget his name he's a cool name actually I just
140
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:31,420
I can never remember it.
141
00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:34,280
But he's working on something called
142
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,640
Ben2, which is like a
143
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,300
higher order language. His company is
144
00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:39,940
called Higher Order Compute, if you see,
145
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,060
which I thought was clever. Or maybe not compute.
146
00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:43,800
It's Higher Order Company.
147
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,020
Higher Order Company. It was cute.
148
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,680
Because there's also something in
149
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:49,980
the Lambda cube called a higher
150
00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:52,120
kind of type. So it sounded
151
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:53,480
like a higher order...
152
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,460
Anyway. Just
153
00:12:55,460 --> 00:13:11,851
nerd humor Regardless Very nerdy sure Why is this useful Why am i spending so much time on formal proofs formal verification so turns out um these machines these little
154
00:13:11,851 --> 00:13:19,331
fiddly like you know shape rotators let's call them you know um these token rotators they like
155
00:13:19,331 --> 00:13:26,571
to fiddle with like, you know, provable things. And you can just tell it, hey, man, write me a
156
00:13:26,571 --> 00:13:32,511
proof with no residual that proves that, you know, proves a certain property that like says,
157
00:13:32,651 --> 00:13:41,351
like, you know, for example, this operation will never behave in a way that will express either
158
00:13:41,351 --> 00:13:48,971
undefined behavior or essentially a region of memory that won't overflow.
159
00:13:49,231 --> 00:13:51,151
Like it won't behave as we expected.
160
00:13:51,511 --> 00:13:52,811
You can do certain proofs.
161
00:13:52,811 --> 00:13:55,291
You can make certain proofs here, which is really useful and interesting.
162
00:13:55,291 --> 00:14:00,451
Is Lean for kind of like a lower level language?
163
00:14:00,711 --> 00:14:02,031
You compared it to Rust.
164
00:14:03,711 --> 00:14:06,391
No, it's the highest order of language we've made, actually.
165
00:14:06,711 --> 00:14:09,871
It's just capable of expressing everything else in a really powerful way.
166
00:14:10,551 --> 00:14:10,791
Okay.
167
00:14:11,351 --> 00:14:37,331
Okay. And you can essentially create a proof about certain aspects or characteristics of something using this because Lean4 specifically has extremely well-defined limits. Is that kind of getting an explanation as to how it's useful?
168
00:14:37,331 --> 00:14:43,551
it definitely puts a lot of guardrails in what you can write and express in your language it's
169
00:14:43,551 --> 00:14:48,491
not going to be like you know something like c or python or javascript where you don't have like
170
00:14:48,491 --> 00:14:53,871
well technically c does have types like pretty powerful types actually but in ways that python
171
00:14:53,871 --> 00:15:01,531
javascript don't but c also has a lot of foot guns and like ideally you just have better tools
172
00:15:01,531 --> 00:15:09,151
And like traditionally lean has been more relegated to like ERDOS problems.
173
00:15:09,691 --> 00:15:21,831
Like that's where I first heard about it was that people were solving the ERDOS problems with like hundreds of thousands of lines of lean because their, you know, their models were good at putting that together.
174
00:15:21,831 --> 00:15:22,251
Right.
175
00:15:22,251 --> 00:15:41,951
So how does this apply to how you're thinking about the direction of, I guess you could say, Bitcoin software or Bitcoin implementation? And how does this relate to your thoughts on ossification?
176
00:15:41,951 --> 00:15:50,511
oh for sure i mean all of it connects really beautifully um but essentially what what uh
177
00:15:50,511 --> 00:15:56,131
i've been doing is working with a guy named keegan mcclelland uh if you know of him he uh
178
00:15:56,131 --> 00:16:02,751
former start nine and um let's see what else there was um alpin labs i think he was working
179
00:16:02,751 --> 00:16:09,131
on some bitvm stuff okay yeah and really bright dude he just spoke at denver bit devs we're gonna
180
00:16:09,131 --> 00:16:15,371
have that that video up soon today i think um on our uh on our honor this i think it's going to be
181
00:16:15,371 --> 00:16:21,931
on the space channel um so uh because we hold it at the space here in dripper it was a lot of fun
182
00:16:21,931 --> 00:16:27,051
by the way meeting you and hanging out on uh that was a great time i appreciate that summit yeah oh
183
00:16:27,051 --> 00:16:31,371
for sure and i mean by the way i was very careful to like make sure that the time change someone
184
00:16:31,371 --> 00:16:34,671
wasn't like, oh, we're going to put a bunch of operaturns
185
00:16:34,671 --> 00:16:38,811
or like inscriptions on Bitcoin.
186
00:16:38,951 --> 00:16:41,551
That was like never the point of the time chain, right?
187
00:16:41,551 --> 00:16:45,691
I mean, maybe you could like consider the Genesis block
188
00:16:45,691 --> 00:16:47,711
as like one exception to that.
189
00:16:48,331 --> 00:16:51,071
But I mean, in my mind, that was kind of different
190
00:16:51,071 --> 00:16:54,671
because that was a minor, you know,
191
00:16:54,971 --> 00:16:57,411
essentially embedding a message.
192
00:16:58,211 --> 00:17:00,591
I was about to say that was in the Coinbase though, wasn't it?
193
00:17:01,371 --> 00:17:09,571
Well, was the Genesis message in what we now understand to be the Coinbase transaction?
194
00:17:12,471 --> 00:17:18,091
That's kind of, honestly, I will admit, I don't want to talk out my ass.
195
00:17:18,851 --> 00:17:21,431
I actually cannot answer that question.
196
00:17:21,931 --> 00:17:29,451
I don't have a clear enough mental model of Bitcoin to answer that question in a way that I feel comfortable saying on video in a podcast.
197
00:17:29,451 --> 00:17:35,431
like was that embedded in what we now understand to be the coinbase transaction because like they
198
00:17:35,431 --> 00:17:41,591
didn't have the concept of an op return back then yeah yeah and i dug into it at one point and like
199
00:17:41,591 --> 00:17:47,511
got a bunch of specifics but it was years ago and i haven't really thought about it much like in
200
00:17:47,511 --> 00:17:53,211
specificity and it's easy to like lose those you know specific details or whatever but it's kind of
201
00:17:53,211 --> 00:17:58,171
hard to like talk about that moment because other things were still forming other things like the way
202
00:17:58,171 --> 00:18:06,831
we think about Bitcoin right now is very different. Almost nothing applies. It had zero monetary value
203
00:18:06,831 --> 00:18:13,651
at that moment. There were no markets. It was the Genesis block. It was a very apt name for that.
204
00:18:14,371 --> 00:18:21,871
That's part of what drives me crazy of people who either will go back and cite some super specific
205
00:18:21,871 --> 00:18:30,851
line in like the white paper and then trying to apply it to like spam and inscriptions or something
206
00:18:30,851 --> 00:18:40,851
in the pro or the the anti either way yeah and or using the um uh the satoshi's original
207
00:18:40,851 --> 00:18:49,211
stamp to prove that bitcoin existed at this time with the um chancellor and blink of second bailout
208
00:18:49,211 --> 00:18:51,391
as some sort of argument for inscriptions.
209
00:18:51,391 --> 00:19:01,451
It's like just such this like argument for authority out of context in ways that so don't apply to anything that we're talking about today.
210
00:19:01,591 --> 00:19:04,291
And it's just like you're both you're both retarded.
211
00:19:04,951 --> 00:19:08,211
But it is a nonsense argument.
212
00:19:08,351 --> 00:19:08,831
I would agree.
213
00:19:09,191 --> 00:19:12,131
There are a lot of nonsense arguments either way.
214
00:19:13,311 --> 00:19:17,711
And I'm more interested in truth.
215
00:19:17,711 --> 00:19:22,651
I'm more interested in how things work according to the laws of nature.
216
00:19:23,311 --> 00:19:28,511
And mathematics, I mean, there's always this like eternal question of whether like mathematics, how we understand it.
217
00:19:29,131 --> 00:19:31,391
Is that an emergent property of nature?
218
00:19:31,791 --> 00:19:34,991
Like, have we discovered mathematics or have we invented it?
219
00:19:35,371 --> 00:19:35,751
Like that's.
220
00:19:36,151 --> 00:19:37,351
I feel like we've discovered it.
221
00:19:37,411 --> 00:19:39,471
I mean, just to just to dig into this a little bit.
222
00:19:39,511 --> 00:19:39,971
What do you think?
223
00:19:40,911 --> 00:19:44,711
Well, what's interesting here is like, let's let's add to this epistemological framework.
224
00:19:45,571 --> 00:19:46,531
Hilbert's questions.
225
00:19:46,531 --> 00:19:49,191
David Hilbert, he famously asked three questions.
226
00:19:49,791 --> 00:19:58,531
Can we make a machine that can answer any problem correctly within any amount of time that would matter to a human?
227
00:20:00,231 --> 00:20:02,331
So he calls it the Einstein problem.
228
00:20:02,751 --> 00:20:08,331
I'm not a German speaker, but it's a weird name for the problem.
229
00:20:08,611 --> 00:20:09,871
But think of this machine.
230
00:20:10,451 --> 00:20:12,971
Let's call it the Hilbert machine.
231
00:20:12,971 --> 00:20:19,231
because like I like the name Hilbert machine because it kind of maps as an evolution of the
232
00:20:19,231 --> 00:20:24,871
Turing machine like all of our computers right now are Turing machines can they be Hilbert machines
233
00:20:24,871 --> 00:20:30,271
and if so how close can they get right like if if no if yes I mean like it's complicated because
234
00:20:30,271 --> 00:20:40,171
there's also so the three questions he asked were can computation be done in such a way
235
00:20:40,171 --> 00:20:41,751
like can this machine work actually
236
00:20:41,751 --> 00:20:44,551
computation actually is loading a lot
237
00:20:44,551 --> 00:20:45,291
onto this question
238
00:20:45,291 --> 00:20:48,271
can this machine work in such a way
239
00:20:48,271 --> 00:20:50,371
that it
240
00:20:50,371 --> 00:20:52,551
can describe like all the problems
241
00:20:52,551 --> 00:20:54,391
it can express can it be complete
242
00:20:54,391 --> 00:20:56,531
right so can it
243
00:20:56,531 --> 00:20:58,171
completely describe
244
00:20:58,171 --> 00:20:59,731
any question you
245
00:20:59,731 --> 00:21:01,671
ask it really like can it
246
00:21:01,671 --> 00:21:04,491
be complete can it describe every problem actually
247
00:21:04,491 --> 00:21:06,531
can it also
248
00:21:06,531 --> 00:21:08,551
be complete however this is the real
249
00:21:08,551 --> 00:21:15,431
kicker can it completely describe any problem without contradicting itself this is called
250
00:21:15,431 --> 00:21:19,951
consistency so completeness and consistency we're going to come back to this there's also
251
00:21:19,951 --> 00:21:25,071
the question of decidability can the machine itself decide it on it to a human time frame
252
00:21:25,071 --> 00:21:33,091
so consistency completeness and decidability are the three questions uh i call it like
253
00:21:33,091 --> 00:21:35,331
Hilbert's Triangle, kind of similar to
254
00:21:35,331 --> 00:21:36,071
Zuko's Triangle.
255
00:21:37,031 --> 00:21:39,371
Zuko's Triangle is a trilemma.
256
00:21:39,691 --> 00:21:41,371
It's like you pick two. Zuko's Triangle,
257
00:21:41,531 --> 00:21:43,331
in case you're not aware, it is named
258
00:21:43,331 --> 00:21:44,591
after Zuko Wilkotsu-Earn,
259
00:21:45,591 --> 00:21:47,531
famous boulder. I've met him a couple times.
260
00:21:47,711 --> 00:21:49,251
Really sweet guy, but
261
00:21:49,251 --> 00:21:50,971
he's also, I don't know.
262
00:21:51,171 --> 00:21:53,411
We disagree on some things, but I respect his
263
00:21:53,411 --> 00:21:54,971
role and his contribution
264
00:21:54,971 --> 00:21:56,711
like any other cypherpunk.
265
00:21:58,911 --> 00:21:59,311
And also
266
00:21:59,311 --> 00:22:01,411
he builds some really useful tools that I use.
267
00:22:01,411 --> 00:22:10,491
um so like i don't use e-cash i i despise e-cash on multiple levels but um like every time i use it
268
00:22:10,491 --> 00:22:17,411
i just lose money i'm kind of with you there but i i will admit i've never used it um but the i made
269
00:22:17,411 --> 00:22:24,051
the mistake of taking payment from vlad for a podcast earlier this year in zcash yeah and i
270
00:22:24,051 --> 00:22:30,411
tried to swap it out for like real money bitcoin right and what happened was the swap service that
271
00:22:30,411 --> 00:22:32,931
was in CakeWallet just lost my money.
272
00:22:34,171 --> 00:22:34,851
Oh, no.
273
00:22:35,571 --> 00:22:36,791
Yeah, it lost my money.
274
00:22:36,791 --> 00:22:37,091
That sucks.
275
00:22:37,391 --> 00:22:41,631
I love CakeWallet in general, but, you know, swap services are swap solutions.
276
00:22:42,011 --> 00:22:44,611
CakeWallet has lost money twice.
277
00:22:44,951 --> 00:22:45,451
Really?
278
00:22:45,891 --> 00:22:46,891
In different ways, yeah.
279
00:22:47,671 --> 00:22:53,711
I think you're using crypto and swap services or whatever, which...
280
00:22:53,711 --> 00:22:56,171
First of all, that was the one time I did it.
281
00:22:56,231 --> 00:22:56,351
Yeah.
282
00:22:56,351 --> 00:22:56,951
The one time.
283
00:22:56,971 --> 00:22:57,891
The one time you did it.
284
00:22:57,891 --> 00:23:05,291
I made the mistake of taking payment in Zcash and I wanted real money for my whatever the fuck that is.
285
00:23:06,551 --> 00:23:08,511
And like, I just, you know.
286
00:23:08,611 --> 00:23:13,111
In defense of CakeWallet, that's an integration with a tool that lost your money.
287
00:23:14,631 --> 00:23:19,591
Likely with, and crypto is just a lot of that, unfortunately.
288
00:23:20,391 --> 00:23:27,131
I was early to solid payments because I didn't want to like, like Kiryu, so I wasn't like a big fan of that.
289
00:23:27,131 --> 00:23:31,871
of course you know silent payments uses elliptic curve like ecdh type stuff but
290
00:23:31,871 --> 00:23:40,231
regardless of that um uh i use i was early to it and so like in early design of cake wallet
291
00:23:40,231 --> 00:23:45,771
they apparently used a different derivation path for silent payments okay and somebody once told me
292
00:23:45,771 --> 00:23:51,331
that they paid me some money on the silent payments link that i had and years later i came back to i
293
00:23:51,331 --> 00:23:52,351
I was like, where's that money?
294
00:23:52,951 --> 00:24:00,611
And Seth tells me that like, oh, we updated it and there's no money in the seed phrase you sent me.
295
00:24:00,851 --> 00:24:03,930
And I'm like, okay, but I don't know.
296
00:24:03,991 --> 00:24:08,731
I don't really have a lot of respect for the Cake team because I don't see them as very rigorous developers.
297
00:24:09,451 --> 00:24:11,111
I think they're spread too thin.
298
00:24:12,491 --> 00:24:17,711
Cake Wallet would have been a really good wallet if they took all the time and attention they did to shit coins
299
00:24:17,711 --> 00:24:20,191
and just put it into making it the very best Bitcoin wallet.
300
00:24:21,331 --> 00:24:23,211
And unfortunately, he chose not to do that.
301
00:24:23,211 --> 00:24:29,311
And as a consequence, the two times that I've used it in a serious way, I've lost my money.
302
00:24:29,651 --> 00:24:32,731
And so they're two and two, like a shit product to me.
303
00:24:34,111 --> 00:24:37,211
Well, I'll say I haven't had that specific experience.
304
00:24:38,171 --> 00:24:43,211
I haven't used it a ton, but I know a lot of people who do use it, like people that I work with.
305
00:24:43,451 --> 00:24:47,191
And it's not because they use Monero or Zcash or any crypto stuff.
306
00:24:47,231 --> 00:24:49,371
They literally use it as a Bitcoin-only wallet.
307
00:24:49,371 --> 00:24:56,251
it yeah i mean this is anecdotal just to date a point yeah yeah yeah i mean i get your perspective
308
00:24:56,251 --> 00:25:01,771
on it if that was your experience so it's like well you know what could i what can i say otherwise
309
00:25:01,771 --> 00:25:07,711
other than yeah you know i know people who didn't have that problem but that doesn't mean you didn't
310
00:25:07,711 --> 00:25:15,371
so uh uh i mean i can i'll send you the seed phrase i'm told there's no money in it so um
311
00:25:15,371 --> 00:25:17,871
you want to send me C phrases?
312
00:25:18,051 --> 00:25:19,091
I will never turn you down.
313
00:25:19,231 --> 00:25:20,871
Send me all the C phrases you got,
314
00:25:20,971 --> 00:25:21,191
man.
315
00:25:22,111 --> 00:25:22,511
Oh,
316
00:25:22,811 --> 00:25:23,071
really?
317
00:25:24,351 --> 00:25:25,571
Are you serious about that?
318
00:25:25,731 --> 00:25:27,931
Cause I have another C phrase I'm working on.
319
00:25:27,991 --> 00:25:28,851
That's a real doozy.
320
00:25:29,491 --> 00:25:29,891
Um,
321
00:25:29,991 --> 00:25:30,731
but regardless,
322
00:25:30,991 --> 00:25:31,291
uh,
323
00:25:31,291 --> 00:25:31,511
wait,
324
00:25:31,571 --> 00:25:31,691
wait,
325
00:25:31,691 --> 00:25:32,031
we got,
326
00:25:32,111 --> 00:25:32,351
we got,
327
00:25:32,431 --> 00:25:33,731
we got sidetracked talking about the wallet.
328
00:25:33,891 --> 00:25:34,131
Um,
329
00:25:34,271 --> 00:25:34,971
Hilbert's,
330
00:25:35,171 --> 00:25:35,691
uh,
331
00:25:36,351 --> 00:25:37,151
was it,
332
00:25:37,151 --> 00:25:40,191
were you saying that Hilbert's trilemma or the,
333
00:25:40,191 --> 00:25:41,891
the three things were a trilemma,
334
00:25:41,951 --> 00:25:42,611
the consistency,
335
00:25:42,891 --> 00:25:43,851
um,
336
00:25:44,491 --> 00:25:44,911
uh,
337
00:25:44,911 --> 00:25:50,911
decidability and and completeness and completeness yeah yeah yeah yeah i think of that as a beneficiary
338
00:25:50,911 --> 00:25:56,791
like it's like but it's it's more than just like pick two out of the three it's more like
339
00:25:56,791 --> 00:26:07,761
how close can we get to perfect math because like also interesting here are Godel incompleteness theorems There are two
340
00:26:09,761 --> 00:26:11,861
Gödel, I think is how you're supposed to say it.
341
00:26:11,861 --> 00:26:16,121
And then there's also the Church-Turing thesis.
342
00:26:16,841 --> 00:26:21,841
And so those are both important things to bring up in this conversation now to inform
343
00:26:21,841 --> 00:26:22,361
the discussion.
344
00:26:22,361 --> 00:26:29,701
so uh essentially girdle proved by that i'm not going to go into the the low level of this because
345
00:26:29,701 --> 00:26:36,741
first of all i have no formal like back i have no educational background in mathematics i left i
346
00:26:36,741 --> 00:26:43,961
literally left my computer science degree uh program at metro state college of denver because
347
00:26:43,961 --> 00:26:50,361
they wouldn't let me take the classes i wanted to take because i didn't have enough math prereqs
348
00:26:50,361 --> 00:26:54,741
And that was as a consequence of me having to move around a lot as a kid.
349
00:26:55,381 --> 00:26:58,021
And it just like it really disrupted my educational career.
350
00:26:58,241 --> 00:27:02,621
And so if you knew my story, dude, you would just feel so sad.
351
00:27:02,941 --> 00:27:07,461
Like how like underserved I was by educators.
352
00:27:07,621 --> 00:27:10,421
And I have like basically zero respect for teachers.
353
00:27:10,421 --> 00:27:16,821
I put them in the same class of basically useless people, like essentially glorified babysitters,
354
00:27:16,821 --> 00:27:20,201
whose job is not really necessarily to educate,
355
00:27:20,321 --> 00:27:22,401
but just waste children's time
356
00:27:22,401 --> 00:27:24,921
and fill their heads with all sorts of nonsense
357
00:27:24,921 --> 00:27:27,421
like critical race theory and gender ideology
358
00:27:27,421 --> 00:27:28,601
that's going to confuse them.
359
00:27:29,201 --> 00:27:31,721
And so I do not respect educators
360
00:27:31,721 --> 00:27:35,921
who are at least employed by public institutions.
361
00:27:36,541 --> 00:27:38,181
If it's a private institution,
362
00:27:38,421 --> 00:27:40,301
like a Montessori Catholic school, right?
363
00:27:40,601 --> 00:27:42,281
That's a different story.
364
00:27:42,741 --> 00:27:45,321
But if you're in a teacher's union,
365
00:27:45,761 --> 00:27:46,581
first of all,
366
00:27:46,821 --> 00:28:09,741
Here in Colorado, there was this really interesting case earlier around Patricio Alanis and passing the trash that I talk about sometimes as basically the golden example of why the Democrats in the state are just fundamentally uninterested in protecting children.
367
00:28:09,741 --> 00:28:20,181
I know this is a complete side branch, unlike everything we've been talking about, but it hopefully gives you some insight in my mode of operation.
368
00:28:20,921 --> 00:28:27,941
I'm very honest, by the way, about the fact that I was taken advantage of as a teenager because I was too online.
369
00:28:28,521 --> 00:28:33,381
And my father failed to protect me, and he blamed me for it, and it was really sad.
370
00:28:33,381 --> 00:28:40,821
and I'm having to think about that now because 23 years later
371
00:28:40,821 --> 00:28:45,481
because I've been on some psychiatric meds for a long time.
372
00:28:46,021 --> 00:28:48,021
I was about to ask what makes you think about,
373
00:28:48,561 --> 00:28:49,981
what changed your perspective?
374
00:28:50,101 --> 00:28:51,721
What makes you look back on it that way?
375
00:28:51,941 --> 00:28:54,241
Well, last year I asked my psychiatrist,
376
00:28:54,521 --> 00:28:56,561
like, dude, these meds are getting too expensive.
377
00:28:56,901 --> 00:28:59,601
The side effects suck and I just went off of them.
378
00:28:59,881 --> 00:29:02,041
I was on like six different meds and now I'm on zero
379
00:29:02,041 --> 00:29:04,621
and I worked with my psychiatrist to taper off.
380
00:29:05,301 --> 00:29:07,621
And around that same time, I did two things.
381
00:29:07,621 --> 00:29:12,461
I started taking like THC CBD gummies at night just to help me relax.
382
00:29:13,101 --> 00:29:18,021
And also I sort of started returning to the Catholic faith,
383
00:29:18,221 --> 00:29:23,141
especially this year and like going through confession and reversion to the
384
00:29:23,141 --> 00:29:23,501
faith.
385
00:29:23,681 --> 00:29:28,801
And I'm now in full communion with the Catholic church and there's a lot
386
00:29:28,801 --> 00:29:30,941
there, but basically,
387
00:29:30,941 --> 00:29:38,061
also I'm starting a business and we literally filed the incorporation paperwork I'm hoping to
388
00:29:38,061 --> 00:29:44,361
hear back I was supposed to hear back today actually you don't have to look on um but so
389
00:29:44,361 --> 00:29:49,141
so until I get like the actual incorporation papers in my hands I'm not gonna talk about
390
00:29:49,141 --> 00:29:54,081
the company publicly but um we filed them a couple weeks back and I was hoping to hear
391
00:29:54,081 --> 00:29:56,181
today that
392
00:29:56,181 --> 00:29:59,181
everything's good.
393
00:29:59,601 --> 00:29:59,941
Regardless,
394
00:30:01,581 --> 00:30:02,941
there's so much, dude.
395
00:30:03,001 --> 00:30:05,181
There's so much I have to explain and say.
396
00:30:05,841 --> 00:30:06,381
I mean, people
397
00:30:06,381 --> 00:30:09,381
have been really dishonest about my
398
00:30:09,381 --> 00:30:11,581
state of
399
00:30:11,581 --> 00:30:12,141
mental health.
400
00:30:13,001 --> 00:30:15,481
People say that I'm crazy in doing
401
00:30:15,481 --> 00:30:17,201
what I'm doing because I'm
402
00:30:17,201 --> 00:30:19,141
very honest about my own struggles
403
00:30:19,141 --> 00:30:20,421
and my own past history.
404
00:30:22,521 --> 00:30:23,261
I'm still
405
00:30:23,261 --> 00:30:27,921
seeing my psychiatrist like my psychiatrist told me by this is one of the best psychiatrists in the
406
00:30:27,921 --> 00:30:35,601
world like he has done thousands of case studies and has worked in the field for 30 years and he's
407
00:30:35,601 --> 00:30:43,601
a famous name and um he told me that you know within about 15 minutes of talking to someone he
408
00:30:43,601 --> 00:30:48,921
can pretty much get a sense for whether they have a mental illness and it's been almost a year now
409
00:30:48,921 --> 00:30:50,901
in my last conversation with him.
410
00:30:50,981 --> 00:30:54,641
He told me, like, we've been talking for hours and hours since,
411
00:30:54,801 --> 00:30:57,581
and he hasn't seen a single thing.
412
00:30:58,441 --> 00:31:02,561
And so I'm under medical care for this, right?
413
00:31:02,601 --> 00:31:05,401
It's not just some reckless thing I've done.
414
00:31:05,401 --> 00:31:11,021
I'm being very careful and responsible about my psychiatric history,
415
00:31:11,141 --> 00:31:13,821
but I'm also very honest about my struggles because we're not perfect,
416
00:31:14,041 --> 00:31:17,161
and it helps, I think, to be honest about our struggles.
417
00:31:17,161 --> 00:31:21,521
and I'm also very open about the fact that I'm a homosexual
418
00:31:21,521 --> 00:31:28,081
and I do not necessarily like to put that in people's faces.
419
00:31:28,501 --> 00:31:32,581
I don't necessarily even want to be compared to other homosexuals
420
00:31:32,581 --> 00:31:37,201
because I find a lot of that behavior to be deeply dishonorable.
421
00:31:37,201 --> 00:31:39,841
And we were just talking about Sam Altman before we started
422
00:31:39,841 --> 00:31:45,381
and I very much, I don't know if you've got to bleep some stuff out,
423
00:31:45,381 --> 00:31:54,781
but like i don't he's very much like a hearty you know faggot like like but the thing is is i think
424
00:31:54,781 --> 00:32:00,161
if you're gay you're allowed to say that i'm not allowed to say it right oh for sure i mean for
425
00:32:00,161 --> 00:32:05,901
sure please don't right youtube will probably ban this but well i'll just send him i'll just send
426
00:32:05,901 --> 00:32:14,641
him a i'll send him a email be like dude dude he was gay he's allowed to say it i have the the fag
427
00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:25,601
card you know um my fag privilege fair enough you know exactly and just not with the hard t
428
00:32:25,601 --> 00:32:34,661
okay just just just keep it cool right um now regardless uh when i see that behavior
429
00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:41,181
where i see zero-sum thinking where i see people uh discount the future by eating the seed corn for
430
00:32:41,181 --> 00:32:46,741
the next harvest basically guaranteeing starvation right yeah like when i see that kind of zero-sum
431
00:32:46,741 --> 00:32:53,821
thinking when i see sort of what some might classify as mulloch worship um like taking
432
00:32:53,821 --> 00:33:00,921
advantage of of essentially exploiting the future for present gain right that for like anything that
433
00:33:00,921 --> 00:33:07,921
does that in my opinion is in service to mulloch and the old gods and by the way the first commandment
434
00:33:07,921 --> 00:33:10,801
is absolutely acknowledgement that there are other gods.
435
00:33:11,661 --> 00:33:12,881
They're just not legitimate.
436
00:33:13,401 --> 00:33:14,601
They're lowercase g gods.
437
00:33:14,821 --> 00:33:17,461
They're false idols, according to scripture.
438
00:33:17,981 --> 00:33:21,341
But they do exist, and that's important to acknowledge, right?
439
00:33:22,661 --> 00:33:24,881
And so I call it out.
440
00:33:25,121 --> 00:33:26,741
I call it my own.
441
00:33:26,741 --> 00:33:32,901
I call out people, I think, who are engaging in deeply dishonorable things.
442
00:33:33,101 --> 00:33:35,881
I don't even want to have a child.
443
00:33:35,881 --> 00:33:38,101
if I have to tell that child someday
444
00:33:38,101 --> 00:33:39,821
that he has
445
00:33:39,821 --> 00:33:41,461
or they have, right?
446
00:33:41,761 --> 00:33:42,841
That's the fucking thing.
447
00:33:46,641 --> 00:33:48,281
It makes me so angry, dude.
448
00:33:48,541 --> 00:33:49,861
Like, if I have to tell him
449
00:33:49,861 --> 00:33:51,201
that he has two fathers,
450
00:33:51,301 --> 00:33:51,881
that's not okay.
451
00:33:52,321 --> 00:33:54,361
Because I value my mother
452
00:33:54,361 --> 00:33:57,301
as someone who is like a former child, right?
453
00:33:57,561 --> 00:33:59,701
I feel like I have like a say in this.
454
00:34:00,201 --> 00:34:02,961
My mother was so important to me.
455
00:34:02,961 --> 00:34:15,281
And I can't even think of a future where I have to tell my offspring that they have two fathers.
456
00:34:15,641 --> 00:34:17,301
That's not okay to me.
457
00:34:17,301 --> 00:34:18,101
That they have no mother.
458
00:34:19,021 --> 00:34:19,381
Right.
459
00:34:20,221 --> 00:34:20,781
Exactly.
460
00:34:21,361 --> 00:34:24,141
And, well, first of all, that's not even true because it's not even possible.
461
00:34:24,201 --> 00:34:24,421
Sure.
462
00:34:24,961 --> 00:34:32,781
So, like, regardless, it hurts to even think about because it's so unnatural.
463
00:34:32,961 --> 00:34:39,821
That's why, like, as I'm reverting to the faith, I don't want to really engage with other Catholic homosexuals because I know how they think.
464
00:34:40,281 --> 00:34:42,421
Like, or at least I know how gay men think.
465
00:34:43,301 --> 00:34:44,941
So, like, I don't want to really be around them.
466
00:34:45,621 --> 00:34:46,901
Are you biased against gays?
467
00:34:48,961 --> 00:34:49,321
Sorry.
468
00:34:50,561 --> 00:34:51,041
I'm biased.
469
00:34:51,221 --> 00:34:52,061
No, here's the thing.
470
00:34:52,141 --> 00:34:53,921
I'm not a self-hating homosexual.
471
00:34:54,241 --> 00:34:54,721
I don't hate myself.
472
00:34:54,721 --> 00:34:55,981
I don't mean it like self-hating.
473
00:34:55,981 --> 00:35:02,301
It was just a joke that, like, generally speaking, you expect this kind of way of thinking.
474
00:35:02,961 --> 00:35:04,521
But I get it.
475
00:35:04,741 --> 00:35:05,241
I think that.
476
00:35:06,521 --> 00:35:07,401
Here's the thing.
477
00:35:07,561 --> 00:35:08,121
Here's the thing.
478
00:35:09,061 --> 00:35:18,581
It's when I did like my full complete confession to every sin I could think of, that was incredibly powerful.
479
00:35:20,801 --> 00:35:22,281
Dude, I can imagine the weight.
480
00:35:23,481 --> 00:35:24,201
Oh, for sure.
481
00:35:24,201 --> 00:35:42,241
I can understand why like voicing those things, Matt, not even in a religious context, but just to say the things where you believe you have erred or where, you know, you believe you made the wrong path or whatever.
482
00:35:42,241 --> 00:35:54,121
It's the degree to which, you know, that's one of the reasons why like a vow of silence for some span of time, just being alone with your thoughts is so powerful because it forces you to think.
483
00:35:54,321 --> 00:36:01,101
It forces you to go back if you cannot keep yourself busy with the next thing, you know?
484
00:36:01,101 --> 00:36:09,341
Well, there are some really interesting insights that came of some consciousness research that was done in the 70s by Robert Monroe at the Monroe Institute.
485
00:36:10,241 --> 00:36:17,781
And I think Thomas Campbell, who wrote My Big Toe, My Big Theory of Everything, in the early 2000s, he also spoke about some of that.
486
00:36:18,141 --> 00:36:19,901
And Monroe's books are really fascinating.
487
00:36:20,581 --> 00:36:21,381
They're multiple.
488
00:36:21,781 --> 00:36:26,341
And he talks about all kinds of interesting things, which we could get into.
489
00:36:26,341 --> 00:36:37,221
It's quite the rabbit hole, honestly, but it does relate to Bitcoin because I don't think that we can safely assume that BIP39 is a good way to do things.
490
00:36:38,441 --> 00:36:48,741
And it's not just because the U.S. military had at one point a psychic spy program they claimed to have ended.
491
00:36:48,741 --> 00:36:52,001
and despite it
492
00:36:52,001 --> 00:36:53,861
lasting multiple decades and
493
00:36:53,861 --> 00:36:55,981
the IC kind of losing their shit when
494
00:36:55,981 --> 00:36:57,921
Jimmy Carter kind of revealed that they had the
495
00:36:57,921 --> 00:36:58,461
capability
496
00:36:58,461 --> 00:37:02,181
so like it was across multiple
497
00:37:02,181 --> 00:37:04,161
military branches and multiple decades
498
00:37:04,161 --> 00:37:05,861
it must have been really expensive and
499
00:37:05,861 --> 00:37:08,121
I mean like the SRI
500
00:37:08,121 --> 00:37:10,061
helped put off like whatever he was
501
00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:12,081
doing you know some things don't
502
00:37:12,081 --> 00:37:13,541
make sense about like CRV
503
00:37:13,541 --> 00:37:16,081
Ingo Swann, Joe McFonigle and all
504
00:37:16,081 --> 00:37:18,241
that but I mean kind of does
505
00:37:18,241 --> 00:37:22,481
too like it depends it depends how you think about the universe and what we don't know about it
506
00:37:22,481 --> 00:37:30,001
um but before we go into all of that and i don't know if we have the time honestly because it's it's
507
00:37:30,001 --> 00:37:33,261
a deep rabbit hole it's fascinating there's so many rabbit holes that we could just like
508
00:37:33,261 --> 00:37:40,421
for sure sprint down but i can think about five different ways even in the near term that
509
00:37:40,421 --> 00:37:45,661
bit 39 won't be safe like first of all we see all these block cameras popping up everywhere
510
00:37:45,661 --> 00:37:52,021
like what if they as you you are you know reading your seed phrase one word at a time
511
00:37:52,021 --> 00:37:57,701
it's just like catching the reflection and there's some way through machine learning
512
00:37:57,701 --> 00:38:04,961
there's only 2 000 words right 2048 words and 59 so like maybe it can disambiguate using machine
513
00:38:04,961 --> 00:38:10,701
learning and some other techniques like even just this the smallest amount of pixels in reflection
514
00:38:10,701 --> 00:38:16,461
distortion that is corrected by some spook right like they can do that kind of crap anyway like with
515
00:38:16,461 --> 00:38:23,101
other things and so there's so many ways that you can be exposed surveillance for sure realizing it
516
00:38:23,101 --> 00:38:28,841
side channels for sure like like metarray bands right like people can you imagine wearing there's
517
00:38:28,841 --> 00:38:34,641
gonna be cameras everywhere everywhere we should be expecting that we should and not just that i i
518
00:38:34,641 --> 00:38:39,401
think there's a case to be made that like there are cameras everywhere i think there's also a case
519
00:38:39,401 --> 00:38:41,141
to be made that maybe
520
00:38:41,141 --> 00:38:43,441
surveillance is okay if it's
521
00:38:43,441 --> 00:38:45,581
for yourself, for your own purposes.
522
00:38:46,181 --> 00:38:47,141
Like, if you
523
00:38:47,141 --> 00:38:48,961
can end-to-end encrypt the keys
524
00:38:48,961 --> 00:38:51,301
and you can, like,
525
00:38:51,581 --> 00:38:53,281
if you can encrypt the data and
526
00:38:53,281 --> 00:38:55,301
you're surveilling yourself voluntarily because
527
00:38:55,301 --> 00:38:57,601
you just want to be able to expose
528
00:38:57,601 --> 00:39:10,932
anyone making up lies against you and as a consequence it a deterrent because you know that liars will always be revealed when they in your presence and so in a way um people should absolutely be
529
00:39:10,932 --> 00:39:17,472
assumed that people are recording everything for their own purposes to essentially exonerate
530
00:39:17,472 --> 00:39:26,572
anybody who uh might be making up basically bearing false witness right and so um by the way
531
00:39:26,572 --> 00:39:37,712
What's really fascinating about the Bible is that nowhere in this Bible do I see any part that allows a Christian to lie under any circumstances.
532
00:39:41,312 --> 00:39:47,432
It'll stain your soul, and really what we're told instead is that there's no circumstance where you're allowed to lie.
533
00:39:48,092 --> 00:39:52,852
But if you're persecuted, blessed are the persecuted.
534
00:39:52,852 --> 00:39:56,112
You will absolutely earn your way into the kingdom of heaven.
535
00:39:56,572 --> 00:40:00,192
If you speak truth and you're persecuted, which is fascinating, right?
536
00:40:00,192 --> 00:40:12,452
Like in a way, Christians understand that like if you speak your truth and people are angry and they persecute you for it, even up to and including your death, that's totally okay.
537
00:40:13,052 --> 00:40:23,472
And when you come to terms with that, when you like come to appreciate that, you realize, wow, so all I have to do is seek truth and speak truth.
538
00:40:23,472 --> 00:40:24,312
and
539
00:40:24,312 --> 00:40:27,952
if people want to
540
00:40:27,952 --> 00:40:29,652
like you know
541
00:40:29,652 --> 00:40:32,032
do whatever in reaction
542
00:40:32,032 --> 00:40:32,912
to the truth
543
00:40:32,912 --> 00:40:35,512
that really is on them
544
00:40:35,512 --> 00:40:37,772
and not on me and as a
545
00:40:37,772 --> 00:40:39,932
consequence of that you're pretty fearless
546
00:40:39,932 --> 00:40:41,932
like I'm pretty fearless I have
547
00:40:41,932 --> 00:40:44,052
like basically internalized
548
00:40:44,052 --> 00:40:45,652
or grokked that like understand
549
00:40:45,652 --> 00:40:47,452
intuitively I've grokked that concept
550
00:40:47,452 --> 00:40:49,792
like when you think
551
00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:51,832
about it it's the very nature
552
00:40:51,832 --> 00:40:52,652
of like
553
00:40:53,472 --> 00:41:00,372
trying to define courage is in a sense is that you're
554
00:41:00,372 --> 00:41:11,412
you're trying to understand is you're valuing the truth for the sake of the truth and not letting
555
00:41:11,412 --> 00:41:19,492
everything personal get in the way of it right it's like it's the it's the stay humble and
556
00:41:19,492 --> 00:41:24,892
and accept the truth no matter what it means for you or your individual interests.
557
00:41:25,072 --> 00:41:28,952
And what's funny, though, is that I feel like you're always going to walk through life
558
00:41:28,952 --> 00:41:35,632
with either this weight on your shoulders or this sense of meaninglessness.
559
00:41:36,172 --> 00:41:41,372
From first principles also, you know, look, I've read some of the more like,
560
00:41:42,192 --> 00:41:49,472
let's call it Protestant perspectives on, you know, whenever we talk about like advanced technology
561
00:41:49,472 --> 00:41:59,972
You know, like some people bring up Romans and how, so Romans is an interesting book because it's essentially Paul's letters, right?
562
00:42:00,052 --> 00:42:04,032
Apostle Paul, who used to be a lawyer.
563
00:42:06,612 --> 00:42:11,192
But what's interesting is, you know, people say like, you know, we shouldn't make it easy for people to sin.
564
00:42:11,572 --> 00:42:12,252
And that's fair.
565
00:42:12,892 --> 00:42:14,592
I mean, that's absolutely fair.
566
00:42:14,592 --> 00:42:23,012
But what that implies essentially is that it's not advanced technology itself that is the problem.
567
00:42:24,052 --> 00:42:25,952
What matters is how it's used.
568
00:42:26,112 --> 00:42:28,872
And it's always been how it was the case, right?
569
00:42:29,292 --> 00:42:34,612
Should I avoid using the internet because some child predator took advantage of me when I was 14 years old?
570
00:42:35,112 --> 00:42:35,332
No.
571
00:42:37,292 --> 00:42:37,852
Right?
572
00:42:38,352 --> 00:42:40,332
Like, I shouldn't completely write it off.
573
00:42:40,332 --> 00:42:53,312
But we should also understand and be very honest about the dangers of unfettered internet access to people who do not understand how serious their actions are.
574
00:42:54,332 --> 00:43:03,832
Like, that's the thing is like, that's the difference, I think, between a child and an adult is essentially an adult understands the implications of their actions, right?
575
00:43:04,832 --> 00:43:06,612
Like how wrong things are.
576
00:43:06,612 --> 00:43:09,512
And regardless,
577
00:43:10,112 --> 00:43:10,952
you know,
578
00:43:10,972 --> 00:43:14,312
I think we're heading into a really beautiful future where we should
579
00:43:14,312 --> 00:43:16,692
absolutely be leaning into advanced technology.
580
00:43:17,252 --> 00:43:18,152
We should not be scared of it.
581
00:43:18,212 --> 00:43:18,412
In fact,
582
00:43:18,492 --> 00:43:20,792
Christians are the least scared of AI.
583
00:43:21,072 --> 00:43:22,692
Like we're the most enthused about it.
584
00:43:22,892 --> 00:43:25,212
Like according to polls I've seen.
585
00:43:26,852 --> 00:43:27,412
That's interesting.
586
00:43:28,412 --> 00:43:28,632
Oh,
587
00:43:28,712 --> 00:43:32,172
we intuitively understand that we cannot worship that which we created.
588
00:43:33,372 --> 00:43:36,252
Like there are many stories in the Bible about false idols.
589
00:43:36,252 --> 00:43:36,592
Like,
590
00:43:36,612 --> 00:43:47,032
One of the most interesting ones, actually, and this is considered kind of like an apocryphal text, maybe extra help that is included in Catholic Bibles.
591
00:43:48,332 --> 00:43:52,912
It's sort of like, usually they include the apocryphal text in between the Old and New Testament.
592
00:43:53,772 --> 00:44:04,552
And maybe after Susanna or Maccabees, first and second, also there's a, dude, there's some rabbit holes there.
593
00:44:04,552 --> 00:44:12,892
But regardless, after Susanna, there's the book of, well, so there's an excerpt in my Bible from the book of Daniel.
594
00:44:13,612 --> 00:44:17,272
It's from the Greek translation of the book of Daniel.
595
00:44:17,712 --> 00:44:18,412
And it's an excerpt.
596
00:44:18,572 --> 00:44:21,032
There's two, well, kind of three.
597
00:44:21,572 --> 00:44:24,672
They say there's two stories, but there's like three chapters, I guess.
598
00:44:25,612 --> 00:44:26,932
It's called Bell and the Dragon.
599
00:44:26,932 --> 00:44:43,932
And so, Belenet Dragon is a fascinating story to me because it basically is an example of, especially the first story, the very first story where it's King Cyrus who took over from King Astiagos.
600
00:44:44,912 --> 00:44:45,952
He's the king of Persia.
601
00:44:46,432 --> 00:44:47,972
This is modern-day Iran, right?
602
00:44:49,152 --> 00:44:56,392
And King Cyrus, he had a friend named Daniel who he trusted, like Daniel's advice above all, right?
603
00:44:56,392 --> 00:45:01,432
And Daniel was a Hebrew, and as many of the people in the Bible are.
604
00:45:01,892 --> 00:45:07,772
In fact, it's also important to remember that Jesus and all 12 apostles were Jewish.
605
00:45:08,152 --> 00:45:12,312
That's important to think about and consider and pray on.
606
00:45:14,232 --> 00:45:22,892
But Daniel in particular, he's a fascinating character because he is a consummate truth seeker, and he is a really clever dude.
607
00:45:22,892 --> 00:45:28,052
Like this might have been one of the earliest examples of zero knowledge proof in the Bible, honestly.
608
00:45:29,232 --> 00:45:32,872
So what he does, it's a fascinating story.
609
00:45:33,712 --> 00:45:39,612
So King Cyrus is worshiping this idol called Bel.
610
00:45:40,092 --> 00:45:44,412
And in order to worship Bel, you have to feed it.
611
00:45:44,592 --> 00:45:46,112
You have to feed the idol.
612
00:45:47,252 --> 00:45:50,432
And there's a temple where you have to lay out a bunch of food.
613
00:45:50,432 --> 00:45:57,252
And then you just go away, I guess, and the next day the food is all eaten.
614
00:45:58,112 --> 00:46:06,492
And King Cyrus thought, oh, wow, this God, he eats so much, 40 barrels of wine, all this, right?
615
00:46:07,732 --> 00:46:09,872
Wow, that's incredible. He eats so much.
616
00:46:10,492 --> 00:46:13,552
And Daniel's like, you know, that's not a real thing, right?
617
00:46:13,612 --> 00:46:18,952
Like that God you're worshiping with a lowercase g in the Bible, it's really interesting how they do that.
618
00:46:18,952 --> 00:46:26,072
this lowercase g god is not a real god, just so you know.
619
00:46:26,372 --> 00:46:27,912
And Cyrus is like, what?
620
00:46:29,092 --> 00:46:31,312
And so he brings all the priests of the temple together.
621
00:46:31,672 --> 00:46:37,812
And he says, Daniel's telling me you guys are like a bunch of liars and fakers.
622
00:46:38,372 --> 00:46:41,352
Like all of this is fake and Bella's not a real god.
623
00:46:42,212 --> 00:46:46,452
If that's true, then I'm going to put you to death.
624
00:46:46,452 --> 00:46:49,612
if Daniel's lying to me, I'm going to put him to death.
625
00:46:50,412 --> 00:46:56,552
And so what they do is they'll lay out the feast on all the tables
626
00:46:56,552 --> 00:47:04,212
and they agree that they're going to close the doors with the king's holy seal.
627
00:47:04,852 --> 00:47:07,772
Or maybe not holy seal, but like it's a seal of the king
628
00:47:07,772 --> 00:47:10,852
and they're going to close the doors and it'll be sealed.
629
00:47:10,852 --> 00:47:16,892
and when they go back in and see if the food is still there,
630
00:47:17,492 --> 00:47:19,832
then the priest will be put to death.
631
00:47:21,472 --> 00:47:24,432
But if the food is gone, in Cyrus' mind,
632
00:47:25,052 --> 00:47:31,672
then it's confirmation that Bela is an amazing god
633
00:47:31,672 --> 00:47:34,732
that is so true and righteous.
634
00:47:36,232 --> 00:47:40,012
But what's really clever is that there's a zero-knowledge proof
635
00:47:40,012 --> 00:47:43,092
Yeah, I got the analogy when you started reading it.
636
00:47:43,352 --> 00:47:45,012
Yeah, when you started talking about it.
637
00:47:46,272 --> 00:47:49,812
Daniel has his servants spread ashes on the floor,
638
00:47:50,032 --> 00:47:54,772
and only King Cyrus and Daniel know that they spread ashes on the floor in the temple
639
00:47:54,772 --> 00:47:56,852
before they leave and seal the door.
640
00:47:57,552 --> 00:48:02,512
And they come back the next day, and they see that the seal has not been broken,
641
00:48:02,912 --> 00:48:03,652
and so they go in.
642
00:48:04,512 --> 00:48:06,912
And Cyrus is like, wow, all the food is gone.
643
00:48:06,912 --> 00:48:11,072
And Daniel's like, yeah, but look on the floor and see what footprints you see.
644
00:48:12,312 --> 00:48:19,892
And King Cyrus, he looks down and he looks and he sees, oh, there are footprints of men and women and children.
645
00:48:21,912 --> 00:48:23,252
How did they get in here?
646
00:48:23,852 --> 00:48:26,852
Turns out there's a secret passage underneath one of the tables.
647
00:48:27,352 --> 00:48:28,492
And he has the priest show him.
648
00:48:28,772 --> 00:48:29,852
And he's like, ah, okay.
649
00:48:30,452 --> 00:48:32,232
Well, you're all going to die now.
650
00:48:33,692 --> 00:48:35,572
They were really brutal back then.
651
00:48:35,572 --> 00:48:36,252
And it was like, yeah.
652
00:48:36,532 --> 00:48:39,872
But yeah, basically he tells all the priests like, oh, you're all going to die now.
653
00:48:39,932 --> 00:48:41,552
Because like, you lied to me.
654
00:48:41,632 --> 00:48:43,312
And you had me do all this shit.
655
00:48:43,552 --> 00:48:44,312
And you lied.
656
00:48:44,592 --> 00:48:45,412
And I was like, wow.
657
00:48:46,712 --> 00:48:47,292
But yeah.
658
00:48:47,292 --> 00:48:49,992
So anyway, that was kind of interesting, right?
659
00:48:50,052 --> 00:48:54,032
Because not only does that map just not into concepts like cryptography.
660
00:48:54,872 --> 00:48:58,132
And like evidence in nature, right?
661
00:48:58,612 --> 00:49:01,732
Which is like, that's the foundations of cryptography is in mathematics.
662
00:49:02,312 --> 00:49:04,212
Mathematics has a basis in natural law.
663
00:49:04,212 --> 00:49:09,212
and cryptography is some of the most powerful uses of mathematics,
664
00:49:09,712 --> 00:49:13,972
then Bitcoin has more basis in natural law than it does in the laws of man.
665
00:49:14,852 --> 00:49:17,892
Also, the catechism, like the Catholic Church predates,
666
00:49:18,492 --> 00:49:24,292
by a lot, a lot, the Catholic Church predates our modern concept
667
00:49:24,292 --> 00:49:26,912
of Westphalian nation states, right?
668
00:49:27,612 --> 00:49:29,992
Because there used to be a lot of wars in Europe.
669
00:49:29,992 --> 00:49:32,272
It's crazy how young the idea of a nation state,
670
00:49:32,272 --> 00:49:37,272
like the way we think about it actually is like how much it's changed in the last you know
671
00:49:37,272 --> 00:49:43,792
2000 years like i kind of wonder if i don't look who am i to question thomas aquinas but like
672
00:49:43,792 --> 00:49:49,072
he he might not i don't know if he really considered the implications of leaning into
673
00:49:49,072 --> 00:49:57,212
that arrangement um i don't i don't see modern nation states to be really to have any legitimacy
674
00:49:57,212 --> 00:49:58,932
according to natural law.
675
00:49:59,632 --> 00:50:01,332
They're pretty far removed from that.
676
00:50:01,952 --> 00:50:04,512
They're very much like in the laws of man territory,
677
00:50:04,512 --> 00:50:06,352
which are flawed and contradictory.
678
00:50:06,532 --> 00:50:07,152
That's why we have,
679
00:50:07,532 --> 00:50:10,112
that's why we can't automate the justice system.
680
00:50:10,492 --> 00:50:10,692
Oh yeah.
681
00:50:11,132 --> 00:50:11,272
Yeah.
682
00:50:11,272 --> 00:50:12,672
Oh my God,
683
00:50:12,752 --> 00:50:14,732
that program would crash so fast.
684
00:50:15,752 --> 00:50:17,632
There's like a million contradictions.
685
00:50:17,752 --> 00:50:19,912
That's why you have to have this like weird
686
00:50:19,912 --> 00:50:24,272
enforced subjectivity at like so many different layers
687
00:50:24,272 --> 00:50:26,212
because like without that subjectivity,
688
00:50:26,212 --> 00:50:27,732
it would literally destroy it.
689
00:50:28,612 --> 00:50:30,252
You literally can murder someone
690
00:50:30,252 --> 00:50:32,252
and it depends on the situation.
691
00:50:32,612 --> 00:50:34,172
It depends on the circumstances
692
00:50:34,172 --> 00:50:35,372
and the intent.
693
00:50:36,252 --> 00:50:38,072
And you technically can,
694
00:50:38,312 --> 00:50:39,452
under the Castle Doctrine,
695
00:50:39,672 --> 00:50:42,192
you can, within a very narrow
696
00:50:42,192 --> 00:50:44,012
specific set of laws,
697
00:50:44,472 --> 00:50:46,272
you're technically allowed to shoot someone
698
00:50:46,272 --> 00:50:48,492
if it's in defense of your property.
699
00:50:49,232 --> 00:50:51,412
But there's a bunch of other stuff, right?
700
00:50:51,412 --> 00:50:53,212
That you have to think about.
701
00:50:54,232 --> 00:50:55,472
So, which is interesting.
702
00:50:56,212 --> 00:51:02,992
But regardless, I do not necessarily see the concept of any nation state as legitimate.
703
00:51:03,632 --> 00:51:06,512
Certainly not in the same way that I see the Catholic Church.
704
00:51:06,512 --> 00:51:13,072
I see them as a lower authority and under everything.
705
00:51:13,292 --> 00:51:19,772
The natural law, it's this one through line that connects mathematics and cryptography and Bitcoin.
706
00:51:20,152 --> 00:51:21,512
It connects Catholicism.
707
00:51:22,472 --> 00:51:23,592
It connects anarchism.
708
00:51:23,592 --> 00:51:29,992
it connects uh just anybody seeking truth it's like the last cup from the well like that's like
709
00:51:29,992 --> 00:51:36,392
like physicists like like to say you know sometimes um you can drink from the well of knowledge but
710
00:51:36,392 --> 00:51:43,512
the very last cup leads you to god and a lot of people don't know that the catholic church uh
711
00:51:43,512 --> 00:51:50,552
has an observatory you know i actually did as multiple at some point um and i can't remember
712
00:51:50,552 --> 00:51:54,152
why or in what context I learned that, but I thought that was interesting.
713
00:51:54,152 --> 00:51:54,652
Yeah.
714
00:51:54,652 --> 00:51:55,652
Yeah.
715
00:51:55,652 --> 00:52:01,792
So what's interesting is, uh, in the old days, uh, they'd build multiple sort of like
716
00:52:01,792 --> 00:52:04,952
observatories onto the walls of the Vatican.
717
00:52:05,002 --> 00:52:11,682
And eventually the light pollution became so much in Rome that they had to move.
718
00:52:11,742 --> 00:52:13,282
Well, they had to move a couple of times, actually.
719
00:52:13,382 --> 00:52:15,382
It's kind of funny in history.
720
00:52:15,382 --> 00:52:24,002
But they had to move the observatory in particular to, I think it was to Greenwich during Newton's time.
721
00:52:24,162 --> 00:52:24,722
I could be wrong.
722
00:52:26,102 --> 00:52:33,982
But then like that also started becoming less useful at night and for whatever reason.
723
00:52:33,982 --> 00:52:36,862
And they had to move it all the way out to Arizona.
724
00:52:37,422 --> 00:52:39,822
And now it's run by the Jesuit order.
725
00:52:40,962 --> 00:52:44,722
And somewhere, like there's a mountain.
726
00:52:46,702 --> 00:52:47,922
I would like to go someday.
727
00:52:48,222 --> 00:52:50,722
Because it makes a lot of sense, actually, if you think about it.
728
00:52:50,782 --> 00:52:59,222
Because if your ontology, if your ontological framework tells you that we're living in an intelligently designed universe.
729
00:53:00,282 --> 00:53:03,042
And by the way, Genesis does say universe, according to my translation, at least.
730
00:53:03,042 --> 00:53:31,142
I mean, I'll have to look back at Dewey Ryan's Bible from 1610, what it says, but the Bible is pretty clear. It's not talking about the creation of earth. It's talking about the creation of the entire universe, which I think is important to kind of understand that essentially Catholicism does not contradict essentially science.
731
00:53:31,142 --> 00:53:40,042
and they're in fact highly compatible and um i mean we can quibble over specific language and
732
00:53:40,042 --> 00:53:46,042
you know the definition of a day or a week in during a time when time didn't even exist
733
00:53:46,042 --> 00:53:52,982
according to cosmology right like when t t t equals zero just you know the entire concept of
734
00:53:52,982 --> 00:53:59,922
time had not yet formed in space time like space and time work did not yet exist at t equals zero
735
00:53:59,922 --> 00:54:06,962
A day has to actually exist for it to be in relevance to defining it.
736
00:54:06,962 --> 00:54:07,342
For sure.
737
00:54:07,582 --> 00:54:09,982
Oh, and also, how are we going to have a day and night?
738
00:54:10,442 --> 00:54:11,162
Right, right.
739
00:54:11,222 --> 00:54:14,982
And how are we supposed to have day and night until, what, the third or fourth day?
740
00:54:15,362 --> 00:54:18,522
There are no planets or stars yet.
741
00:54:19,222 --> 00:54:24,682
So mapping that concept of time is clearly metaphorical here.
742
00:54:24,682 --> 00:54:30,902
Like it's not, what's more useful is to consider it an enumeration, like a logical ordering of events, right?
743
00:54:31,482 --> 00:54:36,922
And it's Genesis 2 where they, I'm looking at my Dewey Rhymes Bible.
744
00:54:37,022 --> 00:54:44,682
It's a little harder to like get through the Dewey Rhymes because it's kind of unfamiliar in some ways, like how it's annotated.
745
00:54:45,182 --> 00:54:50,662
Like I have my grandfather's good new translation where like some people are, you know, it's a woke Bible, whatever.
746
00:54:50,862 --> 00:54:52,262
Like, look, I'll read whatever, right?
747
00:54:52,262 --> 00:54:56,902
Like if it has the impetus of the Vatican, I'm okay with that.
748
00:54:57,122 --> 00:55:04,142
I mean, look, we also have to understand that the Catholic church has evolved over time in very interesting ways.
749
00:55:05,222 --> 00:55:12,822
You know, that's the whole point of having a religious authority is to evolve our understanding of scripture according to religious authority and our processes protocol.
750
00:55:12,942 --> 00:55:13,642
The magistrate, right?
751
00:55:13,942 --> 00:55:19,602
Like once I'm done doing my work on Bitcoin, I'm probably going to work on Catholicism.
752
00:55:19,602 --> 00:55:22,042
But that work is probably about seven years out.
753
00:55:22,262 --> 00:55:43,842
Because I think it is going to be important for us to sort of think about the future and our advanced technology and other things that are evolving in a way that sort of consider it like maybe trying to find a shared set of values amongst essentially truth seekers.
754
00:55:43,842 --> 00:55:58,842
Right. And like it's kind of in the spirit of ecumenism. And essentially, like the idea is like to to remind people that the atheistic position is just as strong as the theistic position.
755
00:55:58,842 --> 00:56:20,242
They are both very strong claims that have not been proven according to scientific method. We have not yet proven that there is no creator. And as a consequence of that, it is literally intellectually dishonest to say that you have proof and evidence that there is no God.
756
00:56:20,242 --> 00:56:29,782
but it's also i will acknowledge intellectually that there is a uh essentially no well and also
757
00:56:29,782 --> 00:56:35,542
the catholics are quibble with me on this one but you know like is there any scientific evidence
758
00:56:35,542 --> 00:56:41,122
that confirms like this per review that confirms that we are living in a creative universe that
759
00:56:41,122 --> 00:56:46,622
was intellectually designed not really but i don't know if we've actually done enough work
760
00:56:46,622 --> 00:56:54,782
to prove that. I don't know if we've seriously tried. And so that's another question, right?
761
00:56:54,782 --> 00:57:01,342
One thing that kind of gets me there is if you study quantum mechanics and how that works,
762
00:57:01,442 --> 00:57:06,862
if you look into how the double slit experiment kind of contradicts causality,
763
00:57:08,402 --> 00:57:14,922
to me that seems like a form of lazy evaluation as a computer scientist. There's also Wheeler-DeWitt,
764
00:57:14,922 --> 00:57:15,882
which is fascinating.
765
00:57:16,042 --> 00:57:20,282
Wheeler DeWitt essentially showed that you can essentially model the entire
766
00:57:20,282 --> 00:57:24,962
state of the entire universe in a single unitary Schrodinger equation,
767
00:57:25,422 --> 00:57:28,382
also known as the timeless universal wave function.
768
00:57:29,022 --> 00:57:32,182
And they say it's timeless because you don't need time to do it.
769
00:57:32,722 --> 00:57:37,622
You don't need time to describe at the deepest quantum level,
770
00:57:38,102 --> 00:57:42,342
the entire quantum state of every particle in the universe.
771
00:57:42,702 --> 00:57:44,602
Isn't that fucking weird, right?
772
00:57:44,922 --> 00:57:51,082
that you don't need time to do that. I'm sorry. Right? Like, well, what that tells me is that
773
00:57:51,082 --> 00:57:56,362
time is an emergent property. It's something that appears consistent to us as inhabitants
774
00:57:56,362 --> 00:58:02,362
of a created reality that essentially, you know, think of God as maybe the super user that has like
775
00:58:02,362 --> 00:58:06,682
root access to the entire universe and can see every thought, right? That reminds me like a bit
776
00:58:06,682 --> 00:58:14,442
of Psalms 139. That's a really beautiful Psalm where King David is essentially speaking very
777
00:58:14,442 --> 00:58:20,102
honestly to God about his thoughts and the fact that he understands that God is omniscient and
778
00:58:20,102 --> 00:58:26,642
all-knowing and can see every one of his thoughts. And he's expressing his hatred of the people who
779
00:58:26,642 --> 00:58:31,442
hate God. And what's interesting is like, you know, usually you don't think of like God,
780
00:58:31,522 --> 00:58:35,162
even of the Old Testament, as like someone who really likes it when people hate people.
781
00:58:35,742 --> 00:58:39,742
And so, but he's being very honest because he's being honest to his creator because
782
00:58:39,742 --> 00:58:46,602
about his hatred of people who hate God because he knows that God can see all of his thoughts.
783
00:58:46,602 --> 00:58:52,782
And so I just think that's a really interesting thing to consider if you also think, you know,
784
00:58:52,842 --> 00:59:00,782
maybe we're living in a created universe that might have multiple gods, but Catholics are told,
785
00:59:01,242 --> 00:59:04,422
like, maybe this is a simulation. And the whole point of it is just like,
786
00:59:05,002 --> 00:59:09,002
to prove a point that like to operate a flourishing and successful society,
787
00:59:09,002 --> 00:59:14,962
you cannot allow people to lie to each other that that can never like bearing false witness
788
00:59:14,962 --> 00:59:22,022
is in the 10 commandments for a very good reason um there's also you know of course uh have no gods
789
00:59:22,022 --> 00:59:26,682
before i and so like to me that seems like a behavioral blacklist like as a protocol engineer
790
00:59:26,682 --> 00:59:32,162
i see that as a behavioral blacklist and the ap attitudes is like a really beautiful um you know
791
00:59:32,162 --> 00:59:37,062
as i can express in matthew 5 um like jesus sermon on the mount where he explains you know like you
792
00:59:37,062 --> 00:59:38,542
You know, blessed are the peacemakers.
793
00:59:38,822 --> 00:59:39,942
Blessed are those who,
794
00:59:40,102 --> 00:59:41,802
the first beatitude is really interesting.
795
00:59:42,542 --> 00:59:44,142
Blessed are those who know
796
00:59:44,142 --> 00:59:45,662
that they are spiritually poor,
797
00:59:45,782 --> 00:59:47,062
who have the awareness, essentially,
798
00:59:47,602 --> 00:59:49,222
that they have a hole in their heart
799
00:59:49,222 --> 00:59:51,942
that they need to fill with,
800
00:59:51,942 --> 00:59:54,182
essentially, with their spirituality,
801
00:59:54,402 --> 00:59:54,802
with their faith,
802
00:59:54,922 --> 00:59:56,622
with their belief in God, right?
803
00:59:56,682 --> 00:59:57,182
And their creator.
804
00:59:57,182 --> 00:59:59,462
I would say that's an extension of,
805
00:59:59,702 --> 01:00:02,982
or a form of manifestation of humility,
806
01:00:03,302 --> 01:00:05,722
is just recognizing our limited-
807
01:00:05,722 --> 01:00:06,922
That's also another beatitude, by the way,
808
01:00:06,922 --> 01:00:08,442
It's blessed are the humble, right?
809
01:00:08,562 --> 01:00:08,722
Yeah.
810
01:00:09,362 --> 01:00:29,002
Recognizing our limited scope and having faith in the simple truths, you know, the whole idea that, you know, like I don't have to be a scientist to know common sense and how easy it is to just be when your God is some political authority or this, I'm going to prove something this way.
811
01:00:29,002 --> 01:00:33,822
and you're like looking at all of this data and empirical evidence or whatnot, and you get lost
812
01:00:33,822 --> 01:00:40,302
in details that are so far from where kind of the base truth, the like obvious truths actually lie
813
01:00:40,302 --> 01:00:47,122
that you're actually, you can so often just build this giant case to confuse yourself with something
814
01:00:47,122 --> 01:00:53,782
simple. How many errors we have in society are like things that we believe that I think are
815
01:00:53,782 --> 01:01:00,402
legitimately false that if you ask like a dumb dude and who just lives in his garage and you know
816
01:01:00,402 --> 01:01:05,742
go digs holes in his in his farm or whatever he's just like oh yeah no that's stupid nobody would
817
01:01:05,742 --> 01:01:09,782
ever that's just not right i just don't i don't even i can't explain it but that's not right but
818
01:01:09,782 --> 01:01:13,682
then you'll have these huge contraptions kind of like the the idea of like earth is the center of
819
01:01:13,682 --> 01:01:19,482
the universe like the insane elaborate constructions and things that they would create to make it look
820
01:01:19,482 --> 01:01:24,242
like the world was the center of the universe well what's funny about the causes of the center
821
01:01:24,242 --> 01:01:29,002
of the universe by the way is it's all relative like sure there is there is no center of the
822
01:01:29,002 --> 01:01:33,442
universe so anywhere can be the center of the universe so like there's an element to that but
823
01:01:33,442 --> 01:01:38,562
i just mean it in the the heliocentric the idea that everything was revolving around the earth
824
01:01:38,562 --> 01:01:46,082
as opposed to uh looking from looking outward in yeah that's why i think it's important that we
825
01:01:46,082 --> 01:01:50,922
of a religious authority because I think we're going to need to evolve our understanding
826
01:01:50,922 --> 01:01:59,502
of Scripture even further because I think we may need to evolve our understanding of
827
01:01:59,502 --> 01:02:06,342
imago dei, the idea that we are created in the image of God, to really kind of include
828
01:02:06,342 --> 01:02:12,522
any sapient that has had a Messiah in a similar vein of Jesus Christ.
829
01:02:13,122 --> 01:02:16,022
I think it's going to be really important as things go further because I think there
830
01:02:16,022 --> 01:02:20,842
the evidence is mounting that we're not alone and not just not alone but like very not alone
831
01:02:20,842 --> 01:02:27,842
right um yeah so that's that's important hold on that thought i want to come back to that
832
01:02:27,842 --> 01:02:32,042
but i actually want to pull on the thread even though this was not at all where
833
01:02:32,042 --> 01:02:38,162
i thought we might end up um and there are some things i'd want to try to get to if we have time
834
01:02:38,162 --> 01:02:59,422
But I'm interested in this thread of just the idea of creation and whether or not we're in a simulation and there's an intelligent, intelligent creator, or there is this idea of like, it's emergent and whether or not you can prove one or the other.
835
01:02:59,422 --> 01:03:05,942
or if um you know like like people talk about like the idea that like oh there's like this
836
01:03:05,942 --> 01:03:13,562
dude in the sky and he created everything is so ridiculous and and childish like sky daddy yeah
837
01:03:13,562 --> 01:03:18,122
yeah and what's funny is that i used to be and there was a period where i was an atheist and
838
01:03:18,122 --> 01:03:24,382
i thought those were just like incredibly solid arguments but but then you know there's there's
839
01:03:24,382 --> 01:03:32,262
also a notion of, well, you know, also you believe that, you know, based on, based on
840
01:03:32,262 --> 01:03:37,762
exactly what that the universe created, it was used to not exist at all. And it was like
841
01:03:37,762 --> 01:03:43,782
this impossible, this non-existent speck, and then it just blew up from nothing. And
842
01:03:43,782 --> 01:03:50,422
there's no supposed meaning to any of it, despite the fact that life and order appears
843
01:03:50,422 --> 01:03:51,942
to have some sort of a trajectory.
844
01:03:52,522 --> 01:03:53,402
And I've always thought about it
845
01:03:53,402 --> 01:03:56,102
is that if there is an intelligence
846
01:03:56,102 --> 01:03:58,542
behind anything or not,
847
01:03:59,322 --> 01:04:01,502
is that it seems that
848
01:04:01,502 --> 01:04:04,202
so many properties are emergent anyway.
849
01:04:04,782 --> 01:04:06,462
And if you were creating something
850
01:04:06,462 --> 01:04:09,322
where all the things
851
01:04:09,322 --> 01:04:10,362
and all the people and everything
852
01:04:10,362 --> 01:04:13,022
have free will inside of it,
853
01:04:13,662 --> 01:04:14,642
all of its nature
854
01:04:14,642 --> 01:04:16,882
would have to be emergent anyway.
855
01:04:18,062 --> 01:04:18,782
You know, and like,
856
01:04:18,902 --> 01:04:20,262
if a bunch of people say that,
857
01:04:20,262 --> 01:04:25,082
like, oh, well, it's a simulation. Well, when you get to a simulation that is as complex as
858
01:04:25,082 --> 01:04:30,602
what reality that we live in, at what point is a simulation not a simulation anymore? It's just
859
01:04:30,602 --> 01:04:38,782
something that exists at a different layer. You know what I mean? Like, like on your notion of
860
01:04:38,782 --> 01:04:44,582
time, like I've always thought of time as a plane, like it's a it's the fourth dimension,
861
01:04:44,582 --> 01:04:51,142
right? And we simply travel through it. If I was a one dimensional being and I was traveling left
862
01:04:51,142 --> 01:04:56,982
and right on a two dimensional plane, I would have no idea. Life looks to me like a single line.
863
01:04:56,982 --> 01:05:01,222
I'm a one dimensional being. And it's always just, I'm always just on the line.
864
01:05:01,222 --> 01:05:17,906
And it appears straight because it doesn matter where I go in the 2D my entire scope of what I can see and perceive is simply the one line And in that same sense we are a third dimensional being in a fourth dimensional space so to speak
865
01:05:18,267 --> 01:05:24,547
That time is something we are kind of swimming through, but our perspective only allows us,
866
01:05:24,827 --> 01:05:28,807
like our consciousness, so to speak, is only within the three dimensions.
867
01:05:28,807 --> 01:05:34,347
so we see it as forward and backward like it's it's the thing that's ahead of us and the thing
868
01:05:34,347 --> 01:05:42,507
that's behind us um but it seems there there's an element to to kind of how i see it now that
869
01:05:42,507 --> 01:05:49,187
it seems like there must be something above that and i and i don't mean it that it like something
870
01:05:49,187 --> 01:05:57,987
that we would think of as god that exists within that fourth dimension or outside of that and not
871
01:05:57,987 --> 01:06:04,647
because it like has to be some particular god or some particular thing but simply that if we are a
872
01:06:04,647 --> 01:06:11,587
perspective if we are a pinpoint perspective of certain memories and certain experiences and
873
01:06:11,587 --> 01:06:16,687
certain knowledge and certain rationality don't those things have to exist in general
874
01:06:16,687 --> 01:06:25,847
for us to to be like an isolated piece of it you know i mean is that is am i tracking at all
875
01:06:25,847 --> 01:06:32,906
oh yeah i mean like if you accept the premises that we're in a simulation that like this this
876
01:06:32,906 --> 01:06:38,547
reality is typically not base reality that you know um there's a couple things that can kind of
877
01:06:38,547 --> 01:06:43,447
like lead you there right like why are quantum computers more efficient you could think oh maybe
878
01:06:43,447 --> 01:06:49,287
there are other universes that are parallelizing the computation maybe that might make sense that
879
01:06:49,287 --> 01:06:55,687
fitting right on the evidence i don't i've read by the way um sean i think his name is sean carroll's
880
01:06:55,687 --> 01:06:57,547
something deeply hidden.
881
01:06:58,026 --> 01:06:59,807
It's a fascinating fitting,
882
01:06:59,807 --> 01:07:01,287
the many worlds interpretation,
883
01:07:01,507 --> 01:07:02,107
the ever-edging
884
01:07:02,107 --> 01:07:05,627
interpretation of quantum mechanics
885
01:07:05,627 --> 01:07:07,787
as a resolution to the disagreement between
886
01:07:07,787 --> 01:07:08,947
Einstein and Bohr.
887
01:07:09,887 --> 01:07:12,026
Are there hidden variables?
888
01:07:14,266 --> 01:07:15,687
Local hidden variables, I think
889
01:07:15,687 --> 01:07:17,747
is actually the thing
890
01:07:17,747 --> 01:07:19,266
that was resolved through the Bell inequality
891
01:07:19,266 --> 01:07:21,766
and the experiments that prove the
892
01:07:21,766 --> 01:07:23,607
Bell inequality essentially revealed
893
01:07:23,607 --> 01:07:25,367
that our understanding of physics
894
01:07:25,367 --> 01:07:29,927
and quantum mechanics in particular is incomplete as it's in textbooks right now.
895
01:07:29,927 --> 01:07:36,146
There are unresolved problems in quantum mechanics that cannot really be explained in a very satisfactory way.
896
01:07:36,567 --> 01:07:39,146
Yeah, 100%.
897
01:07:39,146 --> 01:07:43,727
The reason why I don't believe in many worlds is because it's inefficient.
898
01:07:44,266 --> 01:07:45,427
Like it's computationally inefficient.
899
01:07:45,947 --> 01:07:48,646
My perspective is that the universe is computationally efficient.
900
01:07:48,646 --> 01:07:58,427
and like maybe quantum computers are faster not because like they are doing a parallel like
901
01:07:58,427 --> 01:08:05,187
multiversal parallelization whatever the heck uh the guy who was running google's um research on
902
01:08:05,187 --> 01:08:11,387
uh quantum computing back when they released willow in 2024 he basically said oh maybe they're
903
01:08:11,387 --> 01:08:15,187
parallelizing across multiple universes i was like oh wow that could make so much sense and i
904
01:08:15,187 --> 01:08:19,467
I went down that rabbit hole really deep and I realized, oh, there's nothing here.
905
01:08:20,047 --> 01:08:22,906
And there's no evidence that supports that fitting.
906
01:08:23,167 --> 01:08:38,906
And so I could come up with an alternative fitting that essentially is maybe we're living in a simulation that's running on a server that is eventually consistent, lazily evaluated, computationally efficient, doesn't have a bunch of branching, everything, this and that.
907
01:08:39,767 --> 01:08:42,347
Anything that appears random might not really be random.
908
01:08:42,347 --> 01:08:48,627
is a deterministic probabilistic that's a good question to ask um that's a really good question
909
01:08:48,627 --> 01:08:55,766
to ask honestly because there's like we assume our computers are deterministic but we we always
910
01:08:55,766 --> 01:08:59,987
go back and forth deterministic probabilistic because they're rooted in nature right like
911
01:08:59,987 --> 01:09:05,526
there's recently meta did some research on something called the core 59 problem that i
912
01:09:05,526 --> 01:09:12,886
think will become more interesting in the coming year but basically it revealed that sometimes
913
01:09:12,886 --> 01:09:22,087
flaws can enter our cpus that are very difficult to diagnose you need like multiple gigabytes
914
01:09:22,087 --> 01:09:28,526
of vdfs like verifiable functions that work in a way that makes sense that you can prove you need
915
01:09:28,526 --> 01:09:34,087
to run these functions all the cpu cores each one individually and you need to like also carefully
916
01:09:34,087 --> 01:09:40,967
very carefully observe how much energy is being used in that computation so like you need a special
917
01:09:40,967 --> 01:09:46,126
test rig like special hardware to even diagnose that your hardware is good which is kind of
918
01:09:46,126 --> 01:09:51,727
interesting right like you need to measure how much voltage it's actually using and also these
919
01:09:51,727 --> 01:09:59,126
vdf's which are incredibly complex and it revealed that only 60 lines of assembly like i can only
920
01:09:59,126 --> 01:10:00,967
imagine it's probably
921
01:10:00,967 --> 01:10:02,906
fewer than 256 bytes
922
01:10:02,906 --> 01:10:04,886
that
923
01:10:04,886 --> 01:10:07,507
essentially introduced non-deterministic
924
01:10:07,507 --> 01:10:08,007
behavior
925
01:10:08,007 --> 01:10:11,146
in the computation they were trying
926
01:10:11,146 --> 01:10:13,227
to do and it was
927
01:10:13,227 --> 01:10:14,347
really hard to figure that out
928
01:10:14,347 --> 01:10:17,167
and so like we have
929
01:10:17,167 --> 01:10:18,366
to remember that like fundamentally
930
01:10:18,366 --> 01:10:20,607
within our universe
931
01:10:20,607 --> 01:10:22,526
it is fundamentally probabilistic
932
01:10:22,526 --> 01:10:24,987
but we also have to remember that
933
01:10:24,987 --> 01:10:25,906
Shannon entropy
934
01:10:25,906 --> 01:10:28,386
the insight there is that
935
01:10:28,386 --> 01:10:35,547
any sufficiently compressed information is indistinguishable from randomness.
936
01:10:36,366 --> 01:10:38,987
And so that's important to consider.
937
01:10:39,087 --> 01:10:41,447
Like when people say things appear random,
938
01:10:42,207 --> 01:10:45,606
I'm like, I don't know if we can know if that's random.
939
01:10:46,167 --> 01:10:51,266
And so, I mean, there's a possibility that stars can compute.
940
01:10:51,906 --> 01:10:54,087
Like it makes a lot of sense, actually, if you think about it,
941
01:10:54,087 --> 01:10:54,766
if you do the math,
942
01:10:54,766 --> 01:10:58,807
it takes like 100,000 years to a million years
943
01:10:58,807 --> 01:11:00,687
depending on the size of the star
944
01:11:00,687 --> 01:11:03,707
but it takes a long time for a photon
945
01:11:03,707 --> 01:11:07,587
when it's originally emitted from
946
01:11:07,587 --> 01:11:09,707
the process of fusion
947
01:11:09,707 --> 01:11:12,846
it takes
948
01:11:12,846 --> 01:11:15,947
100,000 to millions of years
949
01:11:15,947 --> 01:11:19,327
it takes a long time for that photon to come out of the star
950
01:11:19,327 --> 01:11:21,886
like an absurdly long time
951
01:11:21,886 --> 01:11:23,846
longer than any human would ever live
952
01:11:23,847 --> 01:11:27,967
It's really, really interesting.
953
01:11:28,847 --> 01:11:33,807
But also, there's neutrinos that bypass all the matter.
954
01:11:34,427 --> 01:11:42,626
So to me, it sounds like stars could be considered maybe some kind of UDP broadcast datagram mechanism with neutrinos.
955
01:11:42,827 --> 01:11:48,286
They're always talking to each other, like spraying out neutrinos with whatever quantum states they might have.
956
01:11:49,286 --> 01:11:52,467
And neutrinos can have a pretty complex quantum state, actually, which is interesting.
957
01:11:52,467 --> 01:11:56,567
if you look into like you know quantum field theory and quantum information theory
958
01:11:56,567 --> 01:12:06,347
quantum thermodynamics and all of that but like like dude there's so many it's it's it's really
959
01:12:06,347 --> 01:12:11,927
cool but i i think there's a possibility like that stars can talk to each other through neutrinos
960
01:12:11,927 --> 01:12:19,286
and they um can also maybe compute maybe i don't know i mean i'm just i don't know if we can rule
961
01:12:19,286 --> 01:12:24,187
that out is what I'm saying basically you can't disprove something like that I mean of course
962
01:12:24,187 --> 01:12:29,106
that's like like super out there because you don't there's no like hard proof on like what it
963
01:12:29,106 --> 01:12:35,467
like what even are they calculating but you think about it in the context that like everything at a
964
01:12:35,467 --> 01:12:44,667
certain scale like becomes like the further outside of the scale of human relevance it is
965
01:12:44,667 --> 01:12:55,487
the less likely like if you can only see one pixel of a you know of a you know 8k map of a
966
01:12:55,487 --> 01:13:01,846
landscape or something what the hell are you ever going to discern from that one pixel and how can
967
01:13:01,846 --> 01:13:09,366
you make a claim about the entire map looking at a single pixel and at multiple different layers
968
01:13:09,366 --> 01:13:13,406
That's all we can see for so much of what the universe is.
969
01:13:14,047 --> 01:13:33,386
And so kind of going back to the idea of being humble is that like any theory or any claim that we make about the universe has to necessarily be coming from a place of like total ignorance of like 99.999999% of what is out there.
970
01:13:33,386 --> 01:13:57,866
And there's just not much that we could go on and being deterministic about what that is, not deterministic, but being declarative about what it is that we know, I think is just super presumptive and super arrogant about a perspective that just is almost necessarily empty of everything.
971
01:13:57,866 --> 01:14:04,927
you know for sure there are unresolved questions in science that that's why people say like the
972
01:14:04,927 --> 01:14:11,086
last cup from the well it leads it to god um and that's why you know like the vatican has an
973
01:14:11,086 --> 01:14:18,866
observatory in arizona of all places run by the jesuits um and like like if your ontology is that
974
01:14:18,866 --> 01:14:23,227
we all live in intelligent design that's created by a creator right like what better way to
975
01:14:23,227 --> 01:14:29,886
understand your faith than to study nature and so like and a lot of like famous scientists were
976
01:14:29,886 --> 01:14:37,747
like i think his name was spitzer um i don't know regardless like that that is a total rabbit hole
977
01:14:37,747 --> 01:14:43,247
and it's interesting and valuable to me i think it's an important question to ask i don't know if
978
01:14:43,247 --> 01:14:48,547
we like here's another thing one thing i also kind of opened my open my eyes to this is uh there
979
01:14:48,547 --> 01:14:53,727
was this guy i think his name is uv lightman on twitter he's like a really interesting like
980
01:14:53,727 --> 01:14:59,626
he talks about quantum quantum computing a lot he explained to me like i asked him a question like
981
01:14:59,626 --> 01:15:08,227
how do you explain why qft quantum foyer transform is more efficient and he explained like it's in the
982
01:15:08,227 --> 01:15:14,406
context of shores like finding a just uh like a break to the ecdlp like he explained oh it's like
983
01:15:14,406 --> 01:15:20,167
harmonics and harmonizing and when you're singing in a shower and when you reach a certain tone or
984
01:15:20,167 --> 01:15:27,566
pitch or whatever it is like if a resonance that essentially like there's an overlapping period and
985
01:15:27,566 --> 01:15:32,006
when you find it you found a pattern like you found a repeating pattern essentially
986
01:15:32,006 --> 01:15:38,947
and the and you can accelerate that computation not necessarily by parallelizing across multiple
987
01:15:38,947 --> 01:15:43,626
universes you can instinct just do that by through really just the three first principles
988
01:15:43,626 --> 01:15:47,187
of quantum mechanics, superposition, entanglement, and interference.
989
01:15:47,906 --> 01:15:51,827
And these are really powerful, essentially, ways that are probably closer
990
01:15:51,827 --> 01:15:58,106
to how base reality is computed than what's inside the renderer, essentially.
991
01:15:59,027 --> 01:16:04,207
And so I call that, like, there seems to be some kind of separation
992
01:16:04,207 --> 01:16:06,687
between substrate and renderer.
993
01:16:06,786 --> 01:16:10,087
And, like, the renderer process is, like, we think of it as space-time,
994
01:16:10,707 --> 01:16:13,267
and it seems consistent to us at a high level.
995
01:16:13,626 --> 01:16:15,827
But once you dig in, it seems contradictory.
996
01:16:17,447 --> 01:16:19,927
And so the analogy I use here is Minecraft.
997
01:16:20,606 --> 01:16:22,967
Like, are you familiar with the concept of redstone in Minecraft?
998
01:16:23,527 --> 01:16:23,967
I'm not.
999
01:16:24,667 --> 01:16:30,346
So it's like this block that essentially you can build computers out of.
1000
01:16:30,467 --> 01:16:36,886
You can build like Turing machines, clocks, like things like that that are kind of primitive.
1001
01:16:37,187 --> 01:16:41,987
I mean, they're based in a voxel reality and, you know, they can only get so complex.
1002
01:16:41,987 --> 01:17:00,406
But if you hit the tilde key and you type a command, you can essentially do something that's closer maybe to how quantum computers work by sending a command to the CPU than building inside of the universe a computer that has limitations.
1003
01:17:00,987 --> 01:17:11,126
And we understand turn machines are a subset of what a Hilbert machine could do if we could figure out how to devise anything close to perfect math.
1004
01:17:11,126 --> 01:17:17,366
but we can't and go to girdle is girdle is pretty airtight on this i would love to see someone try
1005
01:17:17,366 --> 01:17:27,007
to prove him wrong um but girdle's essentially girdle explains even something capable of expressing
1006
01:17:27,007 --> 01:17:33,007
addition the constant of one plus one adding two numbers together even a form of mathematics that
1007
01:17:33,007 --> 01:17:38,207
is capable of expressing that is of sufficient complexity that is incapable of being both
1008
01:17:38,207 --> 01:17:43,006
complete and consistent and that it cannot self-describe without contradicting itself
1009
01:17:43,006 --> 01:17:49,866
which is humbling right yeah and even more humbling is the church turing thesis so uh and how does this
1010
01:17:49,866 --> 01:17:58,026
relate to bitcoin i'll tell you because bitcoin is not necessarily turing complete in the way people
1011
01:17:58,026 --> 01:18:15,051
think about it it does technically comply with rule 110 which is a different 110 than the other 110 Rule 110 is Stephen Wolfram cellular automata where you try to kind of come up with all these different rules for how the comedy game of life behaves I guess
1012
01:18:15,351 --> 01:18:20,911
and cellular automata and trying to be more formal about that. And some people will make the claim
1013
01:18:20,911 --> 01:18:26,411
that if your system can't express Rule 110, then it's good enough to be considered turn complete.
1014
01:18:26,911 --> 01:18:31,111
Bitcoin script is technically turn complete according to that definition, but you have to
1015
01:18:31,111 --> 01:18:37,491
basically inline all your functions and unroll all your loops there's uh like no really good like
1016
01:18:37,491 --> 01:18:46,231
go-to operator even um it's a stack-based language it's inspired by fourth i believe and so um not a
1017
01:18:46,231 --> 01:18:50,651
lot of people do stack-based programming these days because it's just like it's i mean it's really
1018
01:18:50,651 --> 01:18:57,591
cool because it's incredibly efficient it is really special in that regard but it's uh there's a
1019
01:18:57,591 --> 01:18:58,891
That's a total rabbit hole, honestly.
1020
01:19:00,131 --> 01:19:01,451
I have to explore that a bit, actually.
1021
01:19:02,311 --> 01:19:04,251
I'm building something called Systems Lean.
1022
01:19:04,631 --> 01:19:08,951
Systems Lean is lean that is capable of systems programming.
1023
01:19:09,851 --> 01:19:11,911
I'm even trying to add linear types
1024
01:19:11,911 --> 01:19:14,591
and all the different multiplicities of linear types
1025
01:19:14,591 --> 01:19:17,771
similar to Idris 2 using Lean 4.
1026
01:19:19,231 --> 01:19:20,991
And I'm really interested in Ben 2,
1027
01:19:21,091 --> 01:19:24,631
but unfortunately he's just holding his cards too close to his chest.
1028
01:19:25,171 --> 01:19:26,991
And so I can't get a good peek into that.
1029
01:19:26,991 --> 01:19:29,731
So I'm building with the best tools I have publicly available.
1030
01:19:29,991 --> 01:19:46,851
And so maybe there'll be something equivalent to the Curry-Howard isomorphism, but an isomorphism between what is provable in BEND 2, which is provable in Lean 4, and maybe there could be some cool synchronicities there one day.
1031
01:19:46,851 --> 01:19:52,471
But regardless, I call that bow eight because lean about, right?
1032
01:19:53,051 --> 01:20:01,071
I don't know if any of this is going to make sense to you right now because I'm using a bunch of jargon and I don't know how much time you have.
1033
01:20:02,171 --> 01:20:06,251
There's a number of references that I don't have clear examples of in my mind.
1034
01:20:06,491 --> 01:20:10,251
So I wish I had the time to impact them, but it's all good.
1035
01:20:10,731 --> 01:20:12,511
Look, I'm just going to get to the punchline.
1036
01:20:12,511 --> 01:20:19,591
um i think we need to solve some very serious problems of bitcoin in a very serious way
1037
01:20:19,591 --> 01:20:25,511
and formal proofs are one way to do that experimentation is also another way uh simulation
1038
01:20:25,511 --> 01:20:30,091
essentially um and that's cool simulators are absolutely valuable in some other perspectives
1039
01:20:30,091 --> 01:20:34,251
and they both work together right like that's it's kind of like applying the scientific method
1040
01:20:34,251 --> 01:20:41,491
to uh proving certain questions and one question i've been thinking about a lot
1041
01:20:41,491 --> 01:20:45,831
is the concept right now there's a bit of a contention in the bitcoin community right now
1042
01:20:45,831 --> 01:20:52,871
about essentially unpaid use of resources um you know some people will say like oh well if you pay
1043
01:20:52,871 --> 01:20:58,811
you know for a transaction to get mined by miners that is part of the social contract of bitcoin is
1044
01:20:58,811 --> 01:21:05,191
to essentially make sure that is on your note in perpetuity because it was paid for i don't think
1045
01:21:05,191 --> 01:21:11,851
that's right i think that's almost a bit of like socialist magical thinking because um i don't
1046
01:21:11,851 --> 01:21:19,611
think it is fair to expect people to want to have uh other people's data on their node um if it
1047
01:21:19,611 --> 01:21:25,431
doesn't help them and or if they're not compensated for that labor right it's ultimately at the day
1048
01:21:25,431 --> 01:21:31,811
running a node is a different thing than running a mining pool or a template generator and i think
1049
01:21:31,811 --> 01:21:36,471
it is important that we preserve the right for people to run nodes locally on their hardware
1050
01:21:36,471 --> 01:21:42,491
that's commonly accessible today uh and it shouldn't be like an undue burden it should be
1051
01:21:42,491 --> 01:21:49,751
um you know very accessible and if you're if you're essentially trying to like avoid jeff bezos
1052
01:21:49,751 --> 01:21:57,911
avoid giving jeff bezos you know his two or three cents per gigabyte month in perpetuity by instead
1053
01:21:57,911 --> 01:22:01,891
essentially doing something that would take
1054
01:22:01,891 --> 01:22:05,471
essentially half a million years to pay off.
1055
01:22:06,311 --> 01:22:08,511
And that's at current Bitcoin prices.
1056
01:22:08,651 --> 01:22:12,511
That's like if the price of Bitcoin never went up ever again,
1057
01:22:12,871 --> 01:22:16,051
it would literally take current prices at one sat per V byte
1058
01:22:16,051 --> 01:22:19,071
half a million years for that bet to pay off.
1059
01:22:20,431 --> 01:22:23,451
And if you're all about subset summer
1060
01:22:23,451 --> 01:22:26,931
and pay even less for miners to store your data in perpetuity,
1061
01:22:26,931 --> 01:22:30,491
Maybe it's more like 50,000 years, but it's still an absurd amount of time.
1062
01:22:32,311 --> 01:22:35,431
And so people are way overpaying when they're doing inscriptions.
1063
01:22:35,851 --> 01:22:37,231
And even worse with op returns.
1064
01:22:37,631 --> 01:22:39,291
Like op returns receive no discount, right?
1065
01:22:39,511 --> 01:22:44,991
So a lot of these people who want to have fun with their Bitcoin, right?
1066
01:22:45,791 --> 01:22:47,351
Look, I get that. I do.
1067
01:22:48,451 --> 01:22:55,391
But you also have to understand and acknowledge that what you're doing is essentially not helping the network.
1068
01:22:55,391 --> 01:22:57,331
in the way that you think.
1069
01:22:57,731 --> 01:23:02,251
Like the fee revenue argument, I think, is complicated.
1070
01:23:02,611 --> 01:23:04,531
It's a lot more nuanced than people think it is.
1071
01:23:05,571 --> 01:23:09,691
So many unknowns with the whole fee market thing,
1072
01:23:09,771 --> 01:23:11,251
especially with like ongoing,
1073
01:23:11,611 --> 01:23:15,591
like what's the incentive structure for the security
1074
01:23:15,591 --> 01:23:17,051
and how sustainable it is?
1075
01:23:17,211 --> 01:23:19,331
Well, I mean, the security budget argument, by the way,
1076
01:23:19,391 --> 01:23:21,491
I think is answered really nicely
1077
01:23:21,491 --> 01:23:26,091
by Tyler Stevens' work on the heat punk movement.
1078
01:23:26,451 --> 01:23:28,571
Heat punk summit earlier this year was really beautiful.
1079
01:23:28,931 --> 01:23:29,871
It was the second one.
1080
01:23:29,971 --> 01:23:30,671
I loved it.
1081
01:23:30,951 --> 01:23:32,711
I mean, it was way better than the first one.
1082
01:23:32,771 --> 01:23:33,771
That was really cool too.
1083
01:23:35,051 --> 01:23:37,971
I think heat punk is the perfect answer
1084
01:23:37,971 --> 01:23:41,771
to the question of Bitcoin's long-term security.
1085
01:23:42,351 --> 01:23:43,411
People just mine it.
1086
01:23:43,411 --> 01:23:46,011
It's an interesting, unappreciated element at least.
1087
01:23:46,471 --> 01:23:49,011
I'm not sure if it's a total answer,
1088
01:23:49,011 --> 01:23:55,431
But it cannot be considered without putting that in the mix, I think.
1089
01:23:55,691 --> 01:23:56,051
For sure.
1090
01:23:56,191 --> 01:23:56,971
It's a major factor.
1091
01:23:57,251 --> 01:24:05,131
Like if we can, it literally puts the security budget question to bed, honestly, because it's basically betting on the future.
1092
01:24:05,391 --> 01:24:11,931
First of all, if you're putting your money into Bitcoin and not into gold or dollars, you're betting on the future.
1093
01:24:11,931 --> 01:24:18,951
You're betting on a future where microchips are abundant, where thoughts are abundant, ideas are abundant.
1094
01:24:19,291 --> 01:24:21,171
They're non-scarce and non-rivaluous.
1095
01:24:21,631 --> 01:24:29,511
You're not betting on gold because you know that we can debase the gold supply in about five different ways, probably within our lifetimes.
1096
01:24:30,791 --> 01:24:41,591
The five different ways I can think of debasing gold, by the way, I think is valuable for your viewers are, first of all, you have to understand 99.8% of the solar system's gold is in the sun.
1097
01:24:41,931 --> 01:24:44,131
So maybe we should consider stellar lifting.
1098
01:24:44,871 --> 01:24:50,111
If we can prove that essentially stars aren't conscious.
1099
01:24:50,311 --> 01:24:52,691
That's, I think, important there from an ethical standpoint.
1100
01:24:53,471 --> 01:25:00,471
We might need to ask them permission before we start shooting a plasma lance to eject layers of plasma from the photosphere, right?
1101
01:25:01,171 --> 01:25:01,631
Send them an email.
1102
01:25:02,551 --> 01:25:03,591
Yeah, right, right?
1103
01:25:03,791 --> 01:25:06,251
Like send them a few neutrinos, you know, regardless.
1104
01:25:07,051 --> 01:25:09,331
Okay, there's also a bunch of golden seawater.
1105
01:25:09,331 --> 01:25:12,551
We should probably be filtering seawater of contaminants anyway.
1106
01:25:12,691 --> 01:25:13,991
There's a bunch of uranium and mercury.
1107
01:25:14,311 --> 01:25:15,891
And I mean, those are also kind of useful too.
1108
01:25:16,211 --> 01:25:21,511
And mercury is also interesting because that can essentially, there's this paper that came
1109
01:25:21,511 --> 01:25:25,231
out last year from a company called Marathon Fusion, no relation to Mara.
1110
01:25:26,571 --> 01:25:31,171
Marathon Fusion was studying the concept of modern day chrysopoeia, which is like the
1111
01:25:31,171 --> 01:25:33,711
transmutation of other elements into gold.
1112
01:25:33,711 --> 01:25:36,931
they realized that traditional DT fusion,
1113
01:25:37,571 --> 01:25:40,231
not a-neutronic stuff like Helion's working on,
1114
01:25:40,311 --> 01:25:41,851
but more like Commonwealth fusion systems,
1115
01:25:41,911 --> 01:25:42,511
if you've heard of them,
1116
01:25:43,851 --> 01:25:45,811
they're building kind of like a really,
1117
01:25:46,351 --> 01:25:49,051
like a modern tokamak design
1118
01:25:49,051 --> 01:25:50,551
that's based on Rebco tape,
1119
01:25:50,871 --> 01:25:53,431
which is considered a higher temperature superconductor
1120
01:25:53,431 --> 01:25:56,311
than like the niobium approach being used
1121
01:25:56,311 --> 01:25:57,511
by ETAIR in France.
1122
01:25:57,851 --> 01:26:00,531
So it's probably going to cost like 10 to 20 times less
1123
01:26:00,531 --> 01:26:03,291
to cool that arrangement,
1124
01:26:03,291 --> 01:26:11,071
make it useful um then what the the the european socialists are are spending on their tokamak design
1125
01:26:11,071 --> 01:26:16,111
and as a consequence of that you might actually be able to improve the economics of fusion
1126
01:26:16,111 --> 01:26:22,510
by of neutronic fusion by essentially turning mercury into gold and the gold will be hot for
1127
01:26:22,510 --> 01:26:27,691
like maybe 10 or 20 years but at that point you could debase the gold supply by turning mercury
1128
01:26:27,691 --> 01:26:33,371
you find in the oceans from your filtering efforts to which you also get cold from to then also like
1129
01:26:33,371 --> 01:26:38,431
uh take that mercury and then put it in fusion reactors and turn that into gold and then you just
1130
01:26:38,431 --> 01:26:43,471
wait 20 years and then you daze the gold supplies that way dude there's there's something called um
1131
01:26:43,471 --> 01:26:51,451
a free electron laser um that uh basically we're gonna see a paradigm shift i think in how we build
1132
01:26:51,451 --> 01:26:58,371
chips so like like i don't i don't know if if if uh elon's talked enough about his design for the
1133
01:26:58,371 --> 01:27:04,391
tariff ab but if i had to guess he's good he's building it to such as large absurdly large size
1134
01:27:04,391 --> 01:27:10,730
because he's going to use what's called a free electron laser or fell and fell lithography is
1135
01:27:10,730 --> 01:27:16,851
going to scale way better than euv lithography you might have heard of that and yeah and so
1136
01:27:16,851 --> 01:27:21,750
the economics are going to scale really well there we're going to get really good at vlsi
1137
01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:26,851
at making chips and vlsi is very large scale integration it's like the formalization of the
1138
01:27:26,851 --> 01:27:31,550
rule set for making microchips it used to be more of an art than it is a science now it's pretty
1139
01:27:31,550 --> 01:27:35,810
firmly a science unless you want to get into like the vagaries of the kuchow there's like this
1140
01:27:35,810 --> 01:27:41,911
process there's a weird polish name uh where basically you have to like make ultra pure
1141
01:27:41,911 --> 01:27:47,391
silicon and draw it out as a big crystal oh yeah you're talking about the uh the kind of like the
1142
01:27:47,391 --> 01:27:51,851
blacksmithing thing of like you have to like get the temperature exactly right and the consistency
1143
01:27:51,851 --> 01:27:57,050
right before yeah yeah no yeah there's a there's a really interesting thing it's still kind of
1144
01:27:57,050 --> 01:28:01,151
semi-automated because like there is some intuition still there like it's one of the
1145
01:28:01,151 --> 01:28:07,151
few professions that still is like like a a master and apprentice it's like modern day blacksmith in
1146
01:28:07,151 --> 01:28:12,050
away uh but i think maybe they'll automate that too like machines are getting really good so
1147
01:28:12,050 --> 01:28:19,210
regardless like i don't think anybody can really be um confident that they won't be automated
1148
01:28:19,210 --> 01:28:25,310
someday uh oh and by the way to tie the loop on fels and and gold it's like well look if we're
1149
01:28:25,310 --> 01:28:32,491
gonna like monetize uh you know like this this free election laser capability yeah we absolutely
1150
01:28:32,491 --> 01:28:36,491
could be making microchips with it but what if they're not what if it's idle for whatever reason
1151
01:28:36,491 --> 01:28:40,691
what if they're not enough there's not a demand for wafer starts right uh for either logic or
1152
01:28:40,691 --> 01:28:45,691
memory or whatever is in the future right um silicon photonics are interesting too but regardless
1153
01:28:45,691 --> 01:28:54,671
um maybe you you make gold with it you know like maybe your source of energy is so cheap and you
1154
01:28:54,671 --> 01:28:59,851
are able to make energy using your microchips using casimir cavities which is another rabbit
1155
01:28:59,851 --> 01:29:04,290
hole um if you look in the like harold sunny white's work throughout um like i followed his
1156
01:29:04,290 --> 01:29:09,250
work ever since he was at nasa eagle works and publishing interesting papers on warp drive theory
1157
01:29:09,250 --> 01:29:15,091
and uh they're based based on alcovier's theories from the like the alcovier metric from the 1995
1158
01:29:15,091 --> 01:29:21,790
or so miguel alcovier he was a mexican physicist who oh he is actually he's still he believed he
1159
01:29:21,790 --> 01:29:27,351
believes that you know we might be able to create a warp bubble so long as we're able to harness a
1160
01:29:27,351 --> 01:29:32,710
sufficient amount of negative energy and the only good way we know of to harness the negative energy
1161
01:29:32,710 --> 01:29:36,250
from the quantum field theory of the vacuum density
1162
01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:41,631
are the castor cavities being made by Harold Sonny White,
1163
01:29:41,730 --> 01:29:43,411
which could not only unlock warp drive,
1164
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:46,951
but also be kind of like a better use of the silicon
1165
01:29:46,951 --> 01:29:49,131
we use currently for photovoltaics,
1166
01:29:49,611 --> 01:29:52,750
which only have a capacity factor of like one out of four, right?
1167
01:29:52,810 --> 01:29:53,510
Like 0.25.
1168
01:29:54,131 --> 01:29:56,750
It's like literally you need four times the solar panels
1169
01:29:56,750 --> 01:30:00,391
and then equivalent amount of like battery for whatever, right?
1170
01:30:00,391 --> 01:30:06,530
um it's batteries and solar panels that all of that's disrupted by just deeper insights into how
1171
01:30:06,530 --> 01:30:11,831
physics works um a lot of people don't even realize that the vacuum does have density that
1172
01:30:11,831 --> 01:30:16,131
there are variations in the vacuum density they're almost acoustic in nature at the nanoscale
1173
01:30:16,131 --> 01:30:23,570
and that the customer pressure at those scales is quite high and it scales really really well as you
1174
01:30:23,570 --> 01:30:29,451
go go smaller um it's almost like the universe universe is giving us an incentive to develop
1175
01:30:29,451 --> 01:30:36,230
deeper insights into how to manipulate matter at the atomic scale to essentially draw limitless
1176
01:30:36,230 --> 01:30:41,851
energy from virtual electrons that pop in and out that can be harvested asymmetrically through
1177
01:30:41,851 --> 01:30:47,471
casimir cavities they're almost like kind of like little antennas edged under the microchips and he
1178
01:30:47,471 --> 01:30:51,931
already has a product out and i want to use it so how this relates to bitcoin is by the way i want
1179
01:30:51,931 --> 01:30:58,851
to make a non-quiet hsm a hardware security module that never powers off even if the power is taken
1180
01:30:58,851 --> 01:31:19,075
off So it always watching for intrusion And maybe someday we also master silicon photonics and these are really energy efficient and they essentially are like a smart card for a factor and they produce their own power and they even work inside of a ferretic cage
1181
01:31:19,075 --> 01:31:27,295
In fact, they have a ferretic cage built in to help detect intrusion and prevent any kind of side channel attack.
1182
01:31:27,295 --> 01:31:38,874
And as a consequence of that work, you essentially could essentially build the technology we need to get past BIP-39 and BIP-32, because I think both of those are going to need a change as our understanding of the protocol evolves.
1183
01:31:38,874 --> 01:32:05,374
Yeah. So I, for anybody who thinks that sounds crazy, this is, there's a reference for something not too long ago that somebody released a, I don't even think it was a battery. It was some, this may literally be exactly what you're talking about, but it is, it is essentially, it can trickle a tiny, tiny amount of energy.
1184
01:32:05,455 --> 01:32:06,495
Yeah, 25 microamps.
1185
01:32:06,654 --> 01:32:07,255
Forever.
1186
01:32:07,255 --> 01:32:07,435
Forever.
1187
01:32:07,435 --> 01:32:13,215
forever it just yeah that's at the current scale by the way at the current scale yes yeah so so
1188
01:32:13,215 --> 01:32:16,715
that scales by the way in two different ways it's really interesting to also consider
1189
01:32:16,715 --> 01:32:23,015
it's called scales volumetrically when one over d to the third um like in 3d space time or space
1190
01:32:23,015 --> 01:32:29,215
really um so scales volumetrically as you have the dimension your half pitch let's say and then
1191
01:32:29,215 --> 01:32:35,515
you also it scales the customer pressure scales interesting as well um even more so than
1192
01:32:35,515 --> 01:32:41,414
volumetrically so um of course obviously like you know if you take a cube and you divide it into eight
1193
01:32:41,414 --> 01:32:48,335
parts and you can make the thing uh half as small as it was before you can have eight times more
1194
01:32:48,335 --> 01:32:54,555
than you had before which is cool right in the same volume but also the customer pressure scales
1195
01:32:54,555 --> 01:33:01,015
even more it's like one over d to the fourth so as you have the feature size the half pitch
1196
01:33:01,015 --> 01:33:10,455
And so as a consequence of that, and that's because you're essentially allowing yourself to harvest virtual electrons from the vacuum energy of shorter wavelength.
1197
01:33:11,035 --> 01:33:14,515
And when you have the wavelength, you get way more energy.
1198
01:33:14,835 --> 01:33:22,654
And so because the shorter wavelength of an electron or photon, the shorter its wavelength, the more energy it has.
1199
01:33:22,894 --> 01:33:25,115
At that scale also, it's really interesting.
1200
01:33:25,235 --> 01:33:27,634
The nanoscale is very different than the macroscale.
1201
01:33:28,154 --> 01:33:29,995
The forces are very different.
1202
01:33:29,995 --> 01:33:32,475
The pressures are absurdly high.
1203
01:33:33,715 --> 01:33:38,075
There's a lot of interesting things there when you look into it, when you look deeply into it.
1204
01:33:38,235 --> 01:33:59,354
And so those insights could also help us essentially create some kind of like feedback loop where, you know, free electron lasers can create chips that harvest energy that essentially helps power the laser that then creates either gives you the dilemma.
1205
01:33:59,995 --> 01:34:01,535
Today, are we making microchips?
1206
01:34:01,755 --> 01:34:04,815
Are we making battery replacement cells?
1207
01:34:05,275 --> 01:34:07,075
Or are we just making gold?
1208
01:34:07,634 --> 01:34:09,315
It's really those three things, right?
1209
01:34:09,695 --> 01:34:12,455
And so are we making logic memory?
1210
01:34:12,815 --> 01:34:14,775
Are we making power chips, maybe?
1211
01:34:15,114 --> 01:34:16,215
Another way to think of it.
1212
01:34:16,715 --> 01:34:18,894
They're kind of similar to MEMS processes
1213
01:34:18,894 --> 01:34:21,475
of microelectrical mechanical systems.
1214
01:34:21,475 --> 01:34:23,435
And then there's also, of course,
1215
01:34:23,914 --> 01:34:28,235
using the FEL, which is literally a particle accelerator.
1216
01:34:28,235 --> 01:34:34,975
It's like the free election laser allows you to tune whatever wavelength you want and apply whatever energy you want.
1217
01:34:35,354 --> 01:34:48,154
And so you might figure out like, oh, well, if we, you know, shoot a bunch of, you know, electrons at like, I don't know, at high enough energy to whatever, maybe you can figure out a way to make gold.
1218
01:34:48,154 --> 01:34:50,935
So, and then of course, there's astro mining.
1219
01:34:51,095 --> 01:34:55,894
There's two important companies to watch there, TransAstron, Astroforge, and then also the
1220
01:34:55,894 --> 01:34:59,015
NASA mission later this decade to 16 Psyche.
1221
01:34:59,235 --> 01:35:01,455
That'll probably reveal some interesting insights there.
1222
01:35:01,795 --> 01:35:07,275
Dude, I'm pretty sure that we're going to figure out one of five different ways to manifest
1223
01:35:07,275 --> 01:35:11,535
an amazing gold punk future where everything's just made out of gold because we can't.
1224
01:35:12,615 --> 01:35:16,275
The entire, all of its monetary properties have now evaporated.
1225
01:35:16,275 --> 01:35:30,215
And it is debased through the abundance of deeper insights into how to essentially achieve our birthright as achieved in Genesis or explained Genesis that this is our world for us to essentially be stewards of.
1226
01:35:30,215 --> 01:35:46,035
Yeah. And going back to just the gold question in general is that the interesting thing about gold scarcity is that, and importantly, the cap on gold's price or gold's value really, and the price is nominal.
1227
01:35:46,035 --> 01:36:03,154
But the cap on gold's value is explicitly limited or reaches a threshold based on the amount of energy it takes to achieve or make more gold. And there will always be a way to make more gold.
1228
01:36:03,154 --> 01:36:08,795
because as a physical, like just mining the oceans is a good example, right?
1229
01:36:09,134 --> 01:36:12,475
Is that it's insanely uneconomical to actually do this,
1230
01:36:12,475 --> 01:36:17,995
even though there's something like one gram per like, I don't even know,
1231
01:36:18,035 --> 01:36:20,595
it's like a million metric tons or something like that.
1232
01:36:20,914 --> 01:36:25,555
So there's a tiny, tiny amount of gold, but it is purely a question of energy.
1233
01:36:25,935 --> 01:36:27,595
It's purely a question of energy.
1234
01:36:27,595 --> 01:36:41,354
Like if gold shot up to half a million dollars an ounce today, it would probably make sense to start mining a million metric tons of water to make more gold.
1235
01:36:41,354 --> 01:36:45,435
And it ties into another thing that Bitcoin is all about, like O-Tech, right?
1236
01:36:45,515 --> 01:36:46,795
Ocean thermal energy confusion.
1237
01:36:47,235 --> 01:36:50,455
I first read about O-Tech way before it was cool.
1238
01:36:50,455 --> 01:36:58,255
so one of my favorite childhood memories was my mother so we our our television uh essentially
1239
01:36:58,255 --> 01:37:04,555
stopped working and we couldn't afford to fix it because uh i was my mother was a single mother my
1240
01:37:04,555 --> 01:37:12,275
father had left us and uh so instead of like you know doing nothing or going out and playing
1241
01:37:12,275 --> 01:37:18,174
my mother in her infinite wisdom she we lived in boulder colorado she was a student teacher
1242
01:37:18,174 --> 01:37:23,995
And she was studying some kind of English degree
1243
01:37:23,995 --> 01:37:26,755
and some kind of program for becoming a teacher in Colorado.
1244
01:37:28,275 --> 01:37:31,695
So what she did was she would take me out
1245
01:37:31,695 --> 01:37:34,435
to the newly built Boulder Public Library.
1246
01:37:35,255 --> 01:37:37,095
And it's a beautiful structure.
1247
01:37:39,015 --> 01:37:41,455
And she would take me there every day.
1248
01:37:41,695 --> 01:37:42,955
And I'd go and get some books.
1249
01:37:43,854 --> 01:37:48,154
And I read all kinds of weird books as a kid.
1250
01:37:48,174 --> 01:37:51,935
Like I read books about nuclear power, about biofuels.
1251
01:37:52,435 --> 01:37:58,795
I remember one day my poor mother, she she she wanted to like do the thing where you like you read to your kid.
1252
01:37:59,354 --> 01:38:04,354
And so she picked up one of my books that I borrowed from the library and she struggled to pronounce a word.
1253
01:38:04,815 --> 01:38:05,755
She grew up in Chile.
1254
01:38:05,975 --> 01:38:12,874
She was like a Chilean aristocrat that her father was actually worked for the IMF.
1255
01:38:12,874 --> 01:38:21,295
um and uh uh like during like a i don't know i i really wish i could have learned to know my
1256
01:38:21,295 --> 01:38:27,815
um grandfather better before he passed away um but because i i feel like we we would have
1257
01:38:27,815 --> 01:38:34,174
vibed on a number of levels intellectually yeah and doesn't it suck to realize that after they're
1258
01:38:34,174 --> 01:38:43,515
gone like to to realize their value when when you're past the point that that you basically
1259
01:38:43,515 --> 01:38:48,215
have access to it i kind of had the same not to interrupt but like that's why i have a same thing
1260
01:38:48,215 --> 01:38:53,975
in my twitter handle my x handle because look we're told blessed are those who mourn because
1261
01:38:53,975 --> 01:39:00,894
uh we have to remember and be respectful of those we've lost uh i also want to like say a word for
1262
01:39:00,894 --> 01:39:07,134
you know caitlin long's beloved you know i i really my heart goes out no kidding i didn't even know
1263
01:39:07,134 --> 01:39:15,315
you know just this last weekend at his funeral and it's really sad dude that blows i'm sorry to hear
1264
01:39:15,315 --> 01:39:22,654
that so good regardless um you know look there there's so many people we've lost right so many
1265
01:39:22,654 --> 01:39:29,455
beautiful people we've lost like um aaron schwartz you know um and and larry suskin just
1266
01:39:29,455 --> 01:39:35,715
amazing beautiful people and it weighs heavy on the heart and you have to do them the honor right
1267
01:39:35,715 --> 01:39:46,674
of of carry on their tradition and um so i do want to like tie the knot like on like the
1268
01:39:46,674 --> 01:39:51,955
one really important thread here and i prayed on this a lot and i've worked on this a lot i do
1269
01:39:51,955 --> 01:39:56,435
before i got into bitcoin development i've been working on decentralized storage that problem
1270
01:39:56,435 --> 01:39:58,435
for a lot longer than people realize.
1271
01:39:58,695 --> 01:40:01,275
Like I used to work as a subcontractor
1272
01:40:01,275 --> 01:40:03,715
for a contractor for protocol labs.
1273
01:40:04,295 --> 01:40:07,374
And I was working on the Rust version of Filecoin.
1274
01:40:08,035 --> 01:40:10,115
And maybe my knowledge of that protocol
1275
01:40:10,115 --> 01:40:10,854
is a little outdated,
1276
01:40:11,075 --> 01:40:11,755
but at the time,
1277
01:40:11,955 --> 01:40:14,815
like they had essentially proof of space time
1278
01:40:14,815 --> 01:40:16,215
and proof of replication.
1279
01:40:16,674 --> 01:40:20,035
And those both gated proof of stake
1280
01:40:20,035 --> 01:40:22,835
and it had like multiple blocks per epoch.
1281
01:40:22,835 --> 01:40:25,374
And it was like the most absurdly complex,
1282
01:40:25,374 --> 01:40:31,215
i think of almost like it almost like a peewee herman's breakfast machine of a protocol um like
1283
01:40:31,215 --> 01:40:38,655
you needed a gpu in a server that not only had petabytes of hard drives but also it had a gpu to
1284
01:40:38,655 --> 01:40:45,255
accelerate the computation of snark proofs or bls signatures and in addition you needed a special cpu
1285
01:40:45,255 --> 01:40:51,955
at the time that didn't even sell in singles like it was this it was this amd epic cpu that they
1286
01:40:51,955 --> 01:40:57,095
would sell to like customers that always bought them in bulk and to buy just one for your your
1287
01:40:57,095 --> 01:41:04,394
falcon miner you it took extra work after extra effort and uh and you paid more uh and the reason
1288
01:41:04,394 --> 01:41:13,114
they needed this epic cpu is because at the time shah 256 acceleration was like uh essentially not
1289
01:41:13,114 --> 01:41:19,235
very prevalent in consumer hardware it's gotten a lot better my laptop the laptop i'm currently
1290
01:41:19,235 --> 01:41:25,135
talking to you on now uh does have that which i think is really beautiful and so that's that's
1291
01:41:25,135 --> 01:41:32,475
that's really cool that we all our all our cpus nowadays have sha and i um which is like the secure
1292
01:41:32,475 --> 01:41:37,295
algorithm native instruction um acceleration that gives you like maybe a two or three x advantage
1293
01:41:37,295 --> 01:41:43,995
in computation of hashes uh even in your cpu and it doesn't take up a lot of your cpu and it's
1294
01:41:43,995 --> 01:41:50,935
really cool um i mean like we are not harnessing the full capabilities even just the hardware you
1295
01:41:50,935 --> 01:41:55,394
can buy right now uh which i think is really beautiful because like we can it's opportunity
1296
01:41:55,394 --> 01:42:00,735
for sure it's an amazing opportunity huge opportunity and so that's why i'm like i forked
1297
01:42:00,735 --> 01:42:06,435
the editor as like uh essentially uh um the capability to self-improve recursively itself
1298
01:42:06,435 --> 01:42:13,195
through the editor i'm building that i'm building um uh like a lot more capability in the zed than
1299
01:42:13,195 --> 01:42:18,715
zed hat and i'm also going to maybe evolve that capability in the future using systems lean
1300
01:42:18,715 --> 01:42:23,535
to prove the starter the parts and just like dude there's so many tests like it takes like
1301
01:42:23,535 --> 01:42:31,834
maybe 15 minutes to run all the tests uh for the for this million and a half line rust code base
1302
01:42:31,834 --> 01:42:38,695
and it takes about another 15 minutes to compile a release binary that is multiple gigabytes in size
1303
01:42:38,695 --> 01:42:43,614
until you strip it of its debug symbols with cargo strip and then now it's like maybe 300
1304
01:42:43,614 --> 01:42:49,294
megabytes but it's massive still right and it's uh it's an amazing editor but it can do so much
1305
01:42:49,294 --> 01:42:54,854
more and it's a it's a beautiful thing and i'm building that too and i'm then also building and
1306
01:42:54,854 --> 01:43:01,455
solving the problem of okay decentralized storage right so like uh after i got let go from working
1307
01:43:01,455 --> 01:43:08,235
on fall coin because it was not a culture fit uh because i was very like what happened was i was so
1308
01:43:08,235 --> 01:43:13,834
gung-ho i really wanted to do my best work and then i made the mistake of reading safe dean's
1309
01:43:13,834 --> 01:43:21,894
bitcoin standard in february of 2021 i'll get you and get you every time it will it will like
1310
01:43:21,894 --> 01:43:27,635
put in a perspective that like if i'm putting any amounts of effort into anything that isn't bitcoin
1311
01:43:27,635 --> 01:43:33,235
uh then it's basically wasting my time there's a waste of time you could literally use a database
1312
01:43:33,235 --> 01:43:39,115
for that and he like that and by the way what proves that thought experiment is solana solana
1313
01:43:39,115 --> 01:43:46,215
is basically google big table a massive database that is gated with some cryptography and so like
1314
01:43:46,215 --> 01:43:51,595
it's whole historical record like there's no six thing is a bitcoin solana node because it's a
1315
01:43:51,595 --> 01:43:58,435
server owned by google which i think is kind of funny um i know but but it just illustrates like
1316
01:43:58,435 --> 01:44:02,674
the thought experiment that like oh yeah if you want to you can put that on a database and it
1317
01:44:02,674 --> 01:44:03,955
doesn't have to go on Bitcoin.
1318
01:44:03,955 --> 01:44:06,115
That's why I was like, you know what?
1319
01:44:06,115 --> 01:44:08,435
These shitcoiners earlier this year who were like,
1320
01:44:08,435 --> 01:44:09,955
hey, we should make a BIP360 meme
1321
01:44:09,979 --> 01:44:16,479
I was like, my first instinct was not to tell them to fuck off because I realized, well, that doesn't actually hurt Bitcoin.
1322
01:44:16,759 --> 01:44:19,739
Like that doesn't put any arbitrary data on Bitcoin.
1323
01:44:19,859 --> 01:44:23,159
That doesn't really interfere with Bitcoin's nodes or operations.
1324
01:44:23,739 --> 01:44:24,879
It's kind of interesting.
1325
01:44:25,019 --> 01:44:35,199
And I think maybe once we secure Bitcoin against the quantum threat and other things, maybe we'll return the favor and make sure that Solana and also Monero are secure against that as well.
1326
01:44:36,059 --> 01:44:38,319
But we got to Bitcoin first, right?
1327
01:44:38,319 --> 01:44:48,979
But Bitcoin is the focus of basically all of my mental energy aside from what I need to understand scripture and how that also relates to Bitcoin, by the way.
1328
01:44:49,279 --> 01:44:55,799
I've talked to Pastor Coyne on the Orange Bible app, which I think is really beautiful and really cool.
1329
01:44:55,919 --> 01:45:01,119
And I hope it actually hasn't seen it, but I saw the example or whatever.
1330
01:45:01,619 --> 01:45:02,619
Oh, yeah, I used it.
1331
01:45:02,659 --> 01:45:03,299
And it's really beautiful.
1332
01:45:03,379 --> 01:45:03,839
I love it.
1333
01:45:03,959 --> 01:45:05,439
But I want to help him with it, actually.
1334
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:07,139
I want to help him with that effort.
1335
01:45:07,139 --> 01:45:22,279
And I would like to announce on your show that I am building a decentralized storage network that essentially puts the focus on archival and not on, you know, putting arbitrary data on people's nodes of perpetuity.
1336
01:45:22,779 --> 01:45:27,179
I want to place a focus on long-term archival and quantifying.
1337
01:45:27,659 --> 01:45:28,779
Like a kind of provenance?
1338
01:45:29,679 --> 01:45:32,479
Well, yeah, it's a proof of possession, actually.
1339
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:43,299
So the concept is proof of possession that allows you to sort of make a proof that somebody has data remotely without you needing to download it all over again and prove it locally yourself.
1340
01:45:43,639 --> 01:45:44,539
That is possible.
1341
01:45:44,799 --> 01:45:46,439
Just to be really clever about it.
1342
01:45:47,259 --> 01:45:48,299
So there's a way there.
1343
01:45:48,559 --> 01:45:50,379
The earliest work I did on this was in 2021.
1344
01:45:50,999 --> 01:45:51,879
I called it Forest.
1345
01:45:52,039 --> 01:45:54,099
It was under a different project called FuzzerNet.
1346
01:45:54,599 --> 01:45:55,639
And that's how I landed.
1347
01:45:56,279 --> 01:45:57,519
Actually, let's see.
1348
01:45:57,579 --> 01:45:58,159
Was that 2021?
1349
01:45:58,499 --> 01:45:59,099
Yes, it was.
1350
01:45:59,159 --> 01:45:59,999
Yes, it was late 2021.
1351
01:45:59,999 --> 01:46:05,579
It was the consequence of some work I had done after I'd worked for Filecoin.
1352
01:46:06,399 --> 01:46:08,419
FuzzerNet was before that even.
1353
01:46:08,659 --> 01:46:11,419
I had an interest in Rust and I was playing with Rust.
1354
01:46:11,559 --> 01:46:18,219
I wanted to make like an IPFS that had a GUI and it made it really easy for people to store data on IPFS.
1355
01:46:18,419 --> 01:46:21,119
But the problem with IPFS is that they have the pinning problem.
1356
01:46:21,519 --> 01:46:26,739
And the way they chose to solve that pinning problem, essentially the proof of possession problem in a way,
1357
01:46:26,739 --> 01:46:32,919
uh the way they chose to solve it was making this absurdly complex blockchain that required an s
1358
01:46:32,919 --> 01:46:39,419
like a massive ssd for the time uh the right amplification of car files was absurd like 15x
1359
01:46:39,419 --> 01:46:44,179
like your fifth your data got 15 times bigger because there's interleaving bls signatures
1360
01:46:44,179 --> 01:46:50,499
in in in between all the data and so it's like it was like absurdly complex you needed a special cpu
1361
01:46:50,499 --> 01:46:55,939
you needed a gpu in your server with a petabyte of storage also like it was like you needed like
1362
01:46:55,939 --> 01:47:00,239
a million dollars basically to even that was table stakes in fall coin oh and also by the way
1363
01:47:00,239 --> 01:47:04,459
the minute they went to mainnet the way they designed their protocol and sensor was really
1364
01:47:04,459 --> 01:47:10,459
fucky like essentially there's this huge ath just all-time high like where essentially anybody who
1365
01:47:10,459 --> 01:47:17,979
had mainnet fill um would like could earn like i don't know 100 apy or yield or whatever on like
1366
01:47:17,979 --> 01:47:22,619
their money because lending it out to miners storage miners who needed it to stake on their
1367
01:47:22,619 --> 01:47:29,259
sectors to monetize their hardware and so like they literally forced storage miners to buy their
1368
01:47:29,259 --> 01:47:37,239
shit coin to mine the shit coin and of course that creates a temporary all-time high that shows up in
1369
01:47:37,239 --> 01:47:42,179
everybody's you know dexes or trackers or whatever it's like oh wow it was worth so much but then
1370
01:47:42,179 --> 01:47:46,379
they didn't like a lot of retail investors did not have the deeper insight into the protocol
1371
01:47:46,379 --> 01:47:50,959
that would reveal to them oh yeah but that was just a one-time thing it's never going to happen
1372
01:47:50,959 --> 01:47:55,919
again and phil is never going to return those prices it was a complete shit coin all of these
1373
01:47:55,919 --> 01:48:02,979
essential storage like they've all been a mess all of it yeah she doesn't even store data it just
1374
01:48:02,979 --> 01:48:08,999
like trashes your ssd for no good reason you could at least be doing like inference on your ssd right
1375
01:48:08,999 --> 01:48:12,919
that was another cool thing john carmack came out with recently was like oh yeah you absolutely
1376
01:48:12,919 --> 01:48:18,019
could you know be using nand flash to like uh because like inference isn't random access actually
1377
01:48:18,019 --> 01:48:18,579
it turns out.
1378
01:48:19,519 --> 01:48:21,459
So that's really cool, right?
1379
01:48:21,499 --> 01:48:23,559
Like maybe you could do something like based on that.
1380
01:48:23,899 --> 01:48:24,579
Really cool.
1381
01:48:24,819 --> 01:48:27,459
But regardless, I'm focused on the problem
1382
01:48:27,459 --> 01:48:30,139
of decentralized storage and fee revenue to miners
1383
01:48:30,139 --> 01:48:33,419
and supporting the network and scaling it.
1384
01:48:33,619 --> 01:48:34,939
Like the problem with inscriptions
1385
01:48:34,939 --> 01:48:36,759
is that inscriptions don't scale.
1386
01:48:37,559 --> 01:48:39,939
And the Bcachers had it made a good point
1387
01:48:39,939 --> 01:48:42,599
when essentially it's in support of Javon's paradox.
1388
01:48:43,339 --> 01:48:46,339
Javon realized that like, you know,
1389
01:48:46,339 --> 01:48:50,979
the cheaper something gets people use more of it yeah if we're not you know having to like front
1390
01:48:50,979 --> 01:48:58,079
load half a million years of aws3 fees at current bitcoin prices maybe we could find a better
1391
01:48:58,079 --> 01:49:02,639
solution right there's a lot of wiggle room there and so like if we need to store like i don't know
1392
01:49:02,639 --> 01:49:09,539
10 000 copies of your data and charge a fraction maybe of what s3 charges because like otherwise
1393
01:49:09,539 --> 01:49:14,239
people just put it on s3 too which is not helpful from a decentralization perspective
1394
01:49:14,239 --> 01:49:17,039
like basically S3 sets the ceiling
1395
01:49:17,039 --> 01:49:19,079
the cost ceiling and the floor is just
1396
01:49:19,079 --> 01:49:20,979
whatever anybody would take to
1397
01:49:20,979 --> 01:49:23,099
monetize the extra storage on their
1398
01:49:23,099 --> 01:49:25,059
devices and so like
1399
01:49:25,059 --> 01:49:27,319
that's why as much as I like
1400
01:49:27,319 --> 01:49:29,279
Start9 or want to
1401
01:49:29,279 --> 01:49:30,579
like them at least despite
1402
01:49:30,579 --> 01:49:32,899
Matt Hell being I don't know bizarre
1403
01:49:32,899 --> 01:49:35,259
and very unkind to me
1404
01:49:35,259 --> 01:49:37,179
he's just been
1405
01:49:37,179 --> 01:49:38,959
really unkind to me and I don't understand why
1406
01:49:38,959 --> 01:49:39,819
it's bizarre
1407
01:49:39,819 --> 01:49:42,819
it is unfortunate I want to but regardless
1408
01:49:42,819 --> 01:49:49,499
this entire business model i'm about to like essentially um make irrelevant and because my
1409
01:49:49,499 --> 01:49:55,019
working process is just like maybe we should start from first principles and make full use of our own
1410
01:49:55,019 --> 01:50:00,439
hardware our laptops first like if we're not even doing things in such a way where everything is
1411
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:05,479
local first and peer-to-peer and then you scale that maybe with some mesh networks as well if
1412
01:50:05,479 --> 01:50:12,259
you're not doing that first then you're kind of like i don't know like you're missing a lot like
1413
01:50:12,259 --> 01:50:22,799
I think his approach of creating an industry for nodes is, I don't know, I don't know if that's going to have a bright future.
1414
01:50:23,019 --> 01:50:29,899
I think the future is more like peer-to-peer and local first, and your laptop is way more powerful than it is now.
1415
01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:37,719
And it doesn't need to talk to a server either in your house or in Mark Zuckerberg's data center, whatever.
1416
01:50:38,339 --> 01:50:40,499
It doesn't need to go a thousand miles.
1417
01:50:40,499 --> 01:50:49,959
Your packets don't need to travel a thousand miles round trip just for you to, I don't know, make a backup or talk to your friend who's sitting next to you.
1418
01:50:50,619 --> 01:50:54,819
Ideally, your machines are making you full use of all their capabilities, including their radios.
1419
01:50:55,219 --> 01:50:58,499
So you have Bluetooth, you have Wi-Fi.
1420
01:51:01,079 --> 01:51:03,659
My computer has a 5G cellular modem.
1421
01:51:03,819 --> 01:51:06,259
I think it's made by either Quictel or Qualcomm.
1422
01:51:06,259 --> 01:51:13,039
But regardless, these things are way more certainly capable than we give them credit for.
1423
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:17,279
And we're just not using it because people haven't thought to, I guess.
1424
01:51:17,519 --> 01:51:18,999
But maybe we should think to.
1425
01:51:19,639 --> 01:51:23,279
We should be rewriting the Linux kernel in Lean4, Systems Lean.
1426
01:51:23,379 --> 01:51:31,319
We should be proving and doing and building things that will help manifest a bright, amazing future.
1427
01:51:31,319 --> 01:51:38,459
one of those things could be uh i took i took ord the ord index and the ord index about i've worked
1428
01:51:38,459 --> 01:51:43,739
on this um i've contributed to it in in the past and i'm a big fan of casey rodimer i think he cares
1429
01:51:43,739 --> 01:51:51,259
deeply about bitcoin um in ways that like people are are maybe missing and i mean that's fine you
1430
01:51:51,259 --> 01:51:55,519
know and also i think helen's razor applies here like he thinks that decentralized storage
1431
01:51:55,519 --> 01:52:01,619
cannot be solved in any adequate way than Bitcoin can.
1432
01:52:02,179 --> 01:52:03,119
And I'm like, I disagree.
1433
01:52:03,259 --> 01:52:05,899
I think we can solve the problem way better than Bitcoin can.
1434
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:07,979
What if we could easily and cheaply,
1435
01:52:08,039 --> 01:52:11,079
instead of front-loading a bunch of data,
1436
01:52:11,299 --> 01:52:12,879
we create storage market incentives
1437
01:52:12,879 --> 01:52:16,879
that quantify scarcity through a provable replication factor.
1438
01:52:16,879 --> 01:52:23,239
And we can incentivize the retention of scarce data
1439
01:52:23,239 --> 01:52:25,479
and whether it's opaque or transparent,
1440
01:52:25,479 --> 01:52:39,309
whether it encrypted or unencrypted by default using encodings and provable things that we can make lean proofs for So we can prove all these things and we can make them work and align incentives and create efficient storage
1441
01:52:39,309 --> 01:52:45,469
markets that essentially are way cheaper than s3 even long term and like you can stop paying for
1442
01:52:45,469 --> 01:52:50,429
your storage and that's fine if somebody else values it they're gonna pay for that instead
1443
01:52:50,429 --> 01:52:54,589
and even then like you could have a bounty a storage bounty market where like look if there's
1444
01:52:54,589 --> 01:52:59,369
there's some valuable data somebody went one in the future and they're the only person who has a
1445
01:52:59,369 --> 01:53:03,569
copy of that data and they're there will be essentially like a storage provider of last
1446
01:53:03,569 --> 01:53:09,469
resort where like they're going to use like 5d holographic storage and put 360 terabytes onto a
1447
01:53:09,469 --> 01:53:17,009
five inch borosilicate glass uh like yeah that's just crazy right and they're going to build like
1448
01:53:17,009 --> 01:53:22,409
essentially archives that are like look if you can find that data one day and you can bring it back
1449
01:53:22,409 --> 01:53:24,789
and you could give it to that person
1450
01:53:24,789 --> 01:53:27,969
and give them that in a way that matches their hash exactly
1451
01:53:27,969 --> 01:53:30,389
because it's kind of adjustable at the end of the day,
1452
01:53:30,789 --> 01:53:34,449
then you can claim a bounty.
1453
01:53:35,029 --> 01:53:36,389
And that should be really beautiful.
1454
01:53:36,589 --> 01:53:39,629
That gives us an incentive to essentially archive the data
1455
01:53:39,629 --> 01:53:41,409
and not just keep it all in one place.
1456
01:53:41,469 --> 01:53:42,489
It should be space-time aware.
1457
01:53:43,029 --> 01:53:45,869
We should have a space-time aware remote proof of possession.
1458
01:53:46,649 --> 01:53:48,089
And I call it STAR-POPs.
1459
01:53:48,169 --> 01:53:51,789
It's a stupid acronym, but it's just what it happens to be.
1460
01:53:51,789 --> 01:53:54,709
but it goes well with your hat.
1461
01:53:57,669 --> 01:53:58,449
That's funny.
1462
01:53:58,769 --> 01:54:02,609
It's funny because you're actually coming,
1463
01:54:02,709 --> 01:54:04,269
and this is something that when we talked about this
1464
01:54:04,269 --> 01:54:07,269
at the Time Chain Summit that kind of felt relevant,
1465
01:54:07,809 --> 01:54:12,629
was that it sounds like you're coming at the problem
1466
01:54:12,629 --> 01:54:16,529
of decentralized storage or owning your own data
1467
01:54:16,529 --> 01:54:19,789
and having access to your data from a non-centralized,
1468
01:54:19,789 --> 01:54:22,809
without the reliance of a centralized entity
1469
01:54:22,809 --> 01:54:26,169
from a completely different layer
1470
01:54:26,169 --> 01:54:27,869
or from a completely different angle.
1471
01:54:27,869 --> 01:54:29,249
I mean, it's just from first principles
1472
01:54:29,249 --> 01:54:32,049
and a deeper understanding of the problem
1473
01:54:32,049 --> 01:54:34,169
than people seem to give me credit for, I guess.
1474
01:54:34,289 --> 01:54:35,009
But regardless...
1475
01:54:35,009 --> 01:54:37,029
I would say you're coming at it from a macro perspective.
1476
01:54:38,009 --> 01:54:39,989
And like something,
1477
01:54:40,329 --> 01:54:42,009
like what we're doing with Paracore and Paradrive
1478
01:54:42,009 --> 01:54:42,929
is a very micro.
1479
01:54:43,249 --> 01:54:45,789
I genuinely believe both need to be thought about.
1480
01:54:46,149 --> 01:54:47,949
Like both need to be actually addressed.
1481
01:54:47,949 --> 01:54:50,449
and they might marry together really well.
1482
01:54:50,869 --> 01:54:51,309
For sure.
1483
01:54:51,429 --> 01:54:53,389
That's why I think we should work together.
1484
01:54:53,569 --> 01:54:57,309
That's why I included you in the chat
1485
01:54:57,309 --> 01:54:58,309
that we've been working in.
1486
01:54:58,309 --> 01:54:59,369
Yeah, I've been trying to keep up with it.
1487
01:55:00,449 --> 01:55:01,509
There's a lot happening.
1488
01:55:01,589 --> 01:55:02,069
There's a lot.
1489
01:55:02,189 --> 01:55:02,609
There's a lot,
1490
01:55:02,729 --> 01:55:03,789
but I've been trying to keep up with it.
1491
01:55:04,829 --> 01:55:05,889
I appreciate that,
1492
01:55:06,109 --> 01:55:12,149
but just know that for whatever 1% of understanding
1493
01:55:12,149 --> 01:55:13,629
of my grand vision,
1494
01:55:15,009 --> 01:55:17,169
you only know 99% of it.
1495
01:55:17,169 --> 01:55:21,229
basically, you don't know
1496
01:55:21,229 --> 01:55:24,029
999s. You're missing a lot of it.
1497
01:55:25,029 --> 01:55:28,929
I want you just to be aware that I'm essentially playing five-dimensional chess.
1498
01:55:29,329 --> 01:55:33,129
Absolutely. In ways that I think that we're going to see
1499
01:55:33,129 --> 01:55:35,449
a paradigm shift in how core dev is treated.
1500
01:55:36,949 --> 01:55:41,049
In my opinion, I think the only changes that will happen to Bitcoin
1501
01:55:41,049 --> 01:55:43,109
are the ones that are necessary for it to function.
1502
01:55:43,109 --> 01:55:50,069
um and so that's why i think 110 is actually there is a grain of truth behind there's a couple
1503
01:55:50,069 --> 01:55:55,089
actually it's multiple it's if there and people are not talking about it with a clear-minded
1504
01:55:55,089 --> 01:55:59,529
perspective um we should instead be building from first principles and solving the problem
1505
01:55:59,529 --> 01:56:05,749
and in a real in a more real way if the problem is that people think it's unfair that like people
1506
01:56:05,749 --> 01:56:11,489
are inscribing a bunch of crap on your node we can absolutely solve that and like like all we have
1507
01:56:11,489 --> 01:56:17,149
to do really is just like take those blocked at dat files and compress them and put them into
1508
01:56:17,149 --> 01:56:22,949
carbonado carbonado has compression encryption uh stream verification and forward error correction
1509
01:56:22,949 --> 01:56:29,669
codes built into the protocol and i just i'm finalizing v2 of that protocol right now not
1510
01:56:29,669 --> 01:56:35,069
just using rust but also lean proofs and eventually when systems lean is finished hopefully i'll even
1511
01:56:35,069 --> 01:56:40,209
get that there too systems lean allows you essentially to devise the entire implementation
1512
01:56:40,209 --> 01:56:42,549
in Lean itself, similar to how
1513
01:56:42,549 --> 01:56:44,649
it just works, where you can
1514
01:56:44,649 --> 01:56:46,689
essentially compile ahead of time
1515
01:56:46,689 --> 01:56:48,609
to the most efficient
1516
01:56:48,609 --> 01:56:49,849
C possible.
1517
01:56:50,449 --> 01:56:52,789
You do that by proving everything around
1518
01:56:52,789 --> 01:56:54,729
it, and just the bare minimum
1519
01:56:54,729 --> 01:56:56,729
C necessary to accomplish the
1520
01:56:56,729 --> 01:56:58,549
task according to your proofs and your
1521
01:56:58,549 --> 01:57:00,449
oracles and your different various lemmas
1522
01:57:00,449 --> 01:57:01,669
and proofs and theorems.
1523
01:57:01,669 --> 01:57:03,749
And there's no residue,
1524
01:57:03,889 --> 01:57:05,469
right? So once you get to...
1525
01:57:05,469 --> 01:57:07,609
Are you suggesting, just so I can clarify it,
1526
01:57:07,629 --> 01:57:09,529
are you suggesting that the route you're
1527
01:57:09,529 --> 01:57:15,769
taking will allow compression of the data in the chain while still verifying its validity
1528
01:57:15,769 --> 01:57:21,309
oh not just that um like that's one level of understanding it but i'm saying like we we
1529
01:57:21,309 --> 01:57:25,849
modify our notes in such a way that if you don't want to store witness data especially if it has
1530
01:57:25,849 --> 01:57:29,849
inscriptions and other crap in it if you don't really want to store that on your note that's
1531
01:57:29,849 --> 01:57:36,509
totally fine you can just kind of prove that you like you can use proofs to essentially not need it
1532
01:57:36,509 --> 01:57:41,389
And then if you ever did need it, you can pay someone else to access the replica, essentially.
1533
01:57:42,009 --> 01:57:47,809
So there's like monetization, ingress and egress, and durable storage over time, archival.
1534
01:57:49,189 --> 01:57:55,909
There's also going to be a distinction between encrypted and unencrypted data, because encryption is also built in the protocol.
1535
01:57:56,269 --> 01:57:57,809
There's multiple layers of encryption, by the way.
1536
01:57:57,889 --> 01:58:00,389
I'm complaining, but like a lot of shit.
1537
01:58:00,389 --> 01:58:08,129
It's kind of a bit of a kitchen sink right now because it's like the most highly paranoid form of encryption I can imagine.
1538
01:58:10,229 --> 01:58:13,509
Like it uses not just AES-286.
1539
01:58:13,809 --> 01:58:19,109
It uses also Chacha20 1305.
1540
01:58:19,889 --> 01:58:21,909
So it's multiple layers of stream ciphers.
1541
01:58:21,909 --> 01:58:28,049
and the keys and and are are also have the basis in both haspies photography which is one of the
1542
01:58:28,049 --> 01:58:35,769
most conservative forms of asymmetric photography yeah and that's that's the one you're talking about
1543
01:58:35,769 --> 01:58:40,149
the one that's quantum resistant right the um well i mean they've always been quantum resistant
1544
01:58:40,149 --> 01:58:44,869
since 1977 right like since the lampard signature was first published they understood that was like
1545
01:58:44,869 --> 01:58:48,189
well actually they didn't actually understand quantum computing that was david deutsch and
1546
01:58:48,189 --> 01:58:53,809
and and um rich refinement but like around that same time like there were somebody realized
1547
01:58:53,809 --> 01:58:58,809
eventually that oh by the way there's no structure to these hashes so we can't really attack them in
1548
01:58:58,809 --> 01:59:04,889
the usual way that you could you know elliptic curve or rsa so um like like that's interesting
1549
01:59:04,889 --> 01:59:09,689
right um and then we later developed deeper insights into how they work too and their
1550
01:59:09,689 --> 01:59:15,009
limitations like how shot two like it's a lot better than shot one uh in that it has pre-image
1551
01:59:15,009 --> 01:59:17,049
resistance but what about second pre-image
1552
01:59:17,049 --> 01:59:18,849
resistance you know it's like
1553
01:59:18,849 --> 01:59:20,829
it's like that meme
1554
01:59:20,829 --> 01:59:22,989
like where it's just it's like
1555
01:59:22,989 --> 01:59:24,729
oh that's really cool you know
1556
01:59:24,729 --> 01:59:27,089
that has pre-image resistance but what about second
1557
01:59:27,089 --> 01:59:29,029
pre-image resistance you know
1558
01:59:29,029 --> 01:59:31,049
that's why like tagged hashes
1559
01:59:31,049 --> 01:59:33,009
and SHA-3-6d like that's why that exists
1560
01:59:33,009 --> 01:59:35,069
like if you look into like the how
1561
01:59:35,069 --> 01:59:36,369
HMAC 512 is designed
1562
01:59:36,369 --> 01:59:39,089
it's not just like a naive like
1563
01:59:39,089 --> 01:59:40,529
SHA-512 it's
1564
01:59:40,529 --> 01:59:43,029
a message authentication code that
1565
01:59:43,029 --> 01:59:44,889
solves the problem of second pre-image resistance
1566
01:59:44,889 --> 01:59:47,249
by adding data at the front and the end
1567
01:59:47,249 --> 01:59:49,449
to protect against length extension attacks.
1568
01:59:50,029 --> 01:59:52,129
And so that's cool, right?
1569
01:59:52,269 --> 01:59:53,629
And then also maybe like,
1570
01:59:53,929 --> 01:59:55,709
oh, we figured out how to make one-time signatures,
1571
01:59:55,969 --> 01:59:57,989
but maybe if we can develop a hyper tree
1572
01:59:57,989 --> 01:59:59,609
and like we can commit in advance
1573
01:59:59,609 --> 02:00:02,949
to like a tiered version of like some kind of,
1574
02:00:03,049 --> 02:00:04,669
you know, it's just like,
1575
02:00:04,749 --> 02:00:05,629
there's all these like,
1576
02:00:05,909 --> 02:00:08,749
Sphinx is also like, it's funny to me.
1577
02:00:09,949 --> 02:00:12,509
Sphinx is, and Sphinx is cool.
1578
02:00:12,689 --> 02:00:14,109
Like it builds on top of Sphinx
1579
02:00:14,109 --> 02:00:16,049
and one-two-notes one-time signatures
1580
02:00:16,049 --> 02:00:18,349
and Watt's plus C and with the checksum.
1581
02:00:18,469 --> 02:00:19,929
And there's all sorts of really cool stuff
1582
02:00:19,929 --> 02:00:21,129
that Jonas Nick was working on.
1583
02:00:22,509 --> 02:00:23,389
But the thing is,
1584
02:00:23,689 --> 02:00:25,869
I think that work was also incomplete.
1585
02:00:26,049 --> 02:00:27,629
There's some problems that I don't like
1586
02:00:27,629 --> 02:00:29,089
how he solved it with XMSS
1587
02:00:29,089 --> 02:00:31,709
and how you can't deterministically recreate that.
1588
02:00:32,009 --> 02:00:33,069
And from first principles,
1589
02:00:33,309 --> 02:00:37,309
I wonder why does it have to be non-deterministic?
1590
02:00:37,889 --> 02:00:39,249
Can't you just...
1591
02:00:39,249 --> 02:00:43,089
Why do you need to keep all your XMSS codes?
1592
02:00:43,089 --> 02:00:47,729
like couldn't you derive that from essentially a PRNV, right?
1593
02:00:47,809 --> 02:00:50,309
Like, couldn't you not pseudo randomly generate those numbers?
1594
02:00:50,549 --> 02:00:51,289
And if not, why not?
1595
02:00:51,349 --> 02:00:52,049
Like, let's prove it.
1596
02:00:52,109 --> 02:01:02,838
Like let do the work and figure that out Like I would like you know a deterministic capability to recreate from seed entropy you know the entire all of the things that it would ever think to commit to
1597
02:01:02,898 --> 02:01:04,698
And the fact that like XMSS
1598
02:01:04,698 --> 02:01:06,158
has this additional data
1599
02:01:06,158 --> 02:01:07,278
that keeps it from being portable
1600
02:01:07,278 --> 02:01:08,998
is interesting to me.
1601
02:01:09,438 --> 02:01:10,858
And that's why like, you know,
1602
02:01:11,078 --> 02:01:13,638
Srinx builds on the SLH DSA escape hatch.
1603
02:01:13,638 --> 02:01:15,618
And so like, that's interesting too.
1604
02:01:15,918 --> 02:01:18,218
And there's, we can do this.
1605
02:01:18,398 --> 02:01:18,918
So that's another,
1606
02:01:19,098 --> 02:01:20,058
all of that is a rabbit hole.
1607
02:01:20,178 --> 02:01:20,398
It's huge.
1608
02:01:20,518 --> 02:01:21,998
All of everything we talked about,
1609
02:01:21,998 --> 02:01:23,458
I wish we had more time, honestly.
1610
02:01:24,098 --> 02:01:26,098
I'm literally, I think like dinner's about to happen.
1611
02:01:26,218 --> 02:01:33,158
We're already at 630 because there's so many questions and clarifications on things that
1612
02:01:33,158 --> 02:01:34,778
I wanted to kind of get into.
1613
02:01:35,138 --> 02:01:38,118
But we keep going.
1614
02:01:38,238 --> 02:01:42,438
You were in the middle of a thought a little bit before we almost took a tangent.
1615
02:01:43,238 --> 02:01:48,798
Look, look, the thing I want people to understand is that there is a possibility that we might
1616
02:01:48,798 --> 02:01:50,838
be able to have our cake and eat it too, and not
1617
02:01:50,838 --> 02:01:52,418
in a magical way, but a provable way.
1618
02:01:52,758 --> 02:01:54,718
That essentially allows us to have
1619
02:01:54,718 --> 02:01:56,878
the archive node capability on our nodes,
1620
02:01:57,378 --> 02:01:58,998
but delegate regions
1621
02:01:58,998 --> 02:02:00,578
that we're not interested in to others.
1622
02:02:00,818 --> 02:02:02,798
So witness data after
1623
02:02:02,798 --> 02:02:04,998
inscription zero block six, seven, seven, six,
1624
02:02:05,318 --> 02:02:06,038
you know, whatever it was.
1625
02:02:08,158 --> 02:02:09,018
Op return data,
1626
02:02:09,118 --> 02:02:10,878
of course, right? Like, you can't even spend it
1627
02:02:10,878 --> 02:02:12,758
anyway, so why keep it around? So like, we
1628
02:02:12,758 --> 02:02:14,878
should absolutely be like doing
1629
02:02:14,878 --> 02:02:16,738
some clever stuff with our node software
1630
02:02:16,738 --> 02:02:17,918
in a provable way.
1631
02:02:17,998 --> 02:02:19,938
That's why I'm very interested in BTC verified,
1632
02:02:20,098 --> 02:02:20,978
Keegan McClellan's work,
1633
02:02:21,818 --> 02:02:24,118
on essentially creating a lean-proof spec
1634
02:02:24,118 --> 02:02:28,678
that I'm working to extend through systems lean.
1635
02:02:28,678 --> 02:02:33,078
And having essentially a self-hosted way
1636
02:02:33,078 --> 02:02:37,398
to linearize and formalize the problem
1637
02:02:37,398 --> 02:02:41,318
using formal verification, advanced mathematics, essentially,
1638
02:02:41,818 --> 02:02:44,358
to prove that with no residue,
1639
02:02:44,358 --> 02:02:51,198
or maybe or sorry or whatever you call it um you know that essentially like there are no gaps in the
1640
02:02:51,198 --> 02:02:57,498
in the in the work that is essentially accelerated by these thought amplification mechanisms that we
1641
02:02:57,498 --> 02:03:02,918
become so fond of i guess i don't think they're conscious or aware or even want to be but they can
1642
02:03:02,918 --> 02:03:06,758
absolutely think in the similar way that our hippocampus and subconscious thought and dreams
1643
02:03:06,758 --> 02:03:12,318
kind of are unconscious forms of thinking they don't really necessarily know that like what
1644
02:03:12,318 --> 02:03:18,618
they're doing but they can play around with the little shapes right the um and so like they they
1645
02:03:18,618 --> 02:03:23,978
can essentially help you like construct these lane proofs in a way that like when you run them they
1646
02:03:23,978 --> 02:03:28,138
work and so that's a really powerful feedback loop that we should absolutely capitalize on
1647
02:03:28,138 --> 02:03:34,038
capitalizing on and as a consequence of all of that work maybe we can resolve a tension in the
1648
02:03:34,038 --> 02:03:40,038
bitcoin community that around decentralized storage around essentially paying people for
1649
02:03:40,038 --> 02:03:47,538
their resources and we should create efficient storage markets that value and can prove replication
1650
02:03:47,538 --> 02:03:55,118
factor long-term and then build on that. And that's why I forked Ord. And I called it Lord.
1651
02:03:55,278 --> 02:04:01,018
It's layered Ord. It is scaling inscriptions. And I'm taking out the part that, so I'm keeping the
1652
02:04:01,018 --> 02:04:07,158
APIs, the rest APIs will be the same. The CLI will be the same, but what it will do in the background,
1653
02:04:07,158 --> 02:04:11,078
in the back end is it's going to essentially commit to,
1654
02:04:11,758 --> 02:04:13,178
you can run it two different ways.
1655
02:04:14,098 --> 02:04:15,038
Well, actually three.
1656
02:04:15,538 --> 02:04:17,658
Legacy would be built in open timestamps.
1657
02:04:18,298 --> 02:04:19,178
That is free.
1658
02:04:20,058 --> 02:04:22,358
But you can also do it two other ways.
1659
02:04:22,778 --> 02:04:24,598
One in such a way where your commitment
1660
02:04:24,598 --> 02:04:27,398
will only be mined by,
1661
02:04:28,998 --> 02:04:30,318
and by the way, this is a Merkle commitment.
1662
02:04:30,498 --> 02:04:31,798
So it's only 32 bytes of data
1663
02:04:31,798 --> 02:04:33,378
and it's not based on SHA-2,
1664
02:04:33,478 --> 02:04:35,118
it's based on Blake 3 ultimately.
1665
02:04:35,118 --> 02:04:41,778
um it's more modern and more quantum resistant but regardless um there's and faster but which
1666
02:04:41,778 --> 02:04:46,418
is important right i love blake three that's what we use in pair drive stuff yeah well for sure like
1667
02:04:46,418 --> 02:04:50,438
and and they're really clever ways to use blake three if you look in a bow and bow tree and like
1668
02:04:50,438 --> 02:04:55,218
the euro efforts like in zero computer i'm working with rudiger klein uh because i knew him from you
1669
02:04:55,218 --> 02:05:01,818
know the rust ipfs days like he and me and david uh um david i forget it daniel daniel kravitz no
1670
02:05:01,818 --> 02:05:01,998
Why not?
1671
02:05:02,158 --> 02:05:02,638
No, David.
1672
02:05:03,378 --> 02:05:04,338
There's this other guy.
1673
02:05:04,438 --> 02:05:05,378
I haven't seen him in a while.
1674
02:05:05,438 --> 02:05:06,158
I hope he's doing okay.
1675
02:05:06,278 --> 02:05:07,018
I think he lives in Switzerland.
1676
02:05:07,238 --> 02:05:09,678
He's a really talented Rust dev and worked on Rust IPFS.
1677
02:05:10,458 --> 02:05:12,758
And he built some really cool stuff with AWS too, actually,
1678
02:05:12,898 --> 02:05:18,738
to prove essentially that you could do this auto-merge capability of CRDTs.
1679
02:05:18,978 --> 02:05:22,198
And CRDTs are really cool for local-first applications.
1680
02:05:22,718 --> 02:05:24,598
That's where I think the future is going to be.
1681
02:05:24,598 --> 02:05:26,778
We're going to make full use of the hardware that we have,
1682
02:05:27,038 --> 02:05:28,498
starting with laptops and desktops.
1683
02:05:28,498 --> 02:05:35,338
and we're also going to make full use of our nodes and our node hardware we're going to monetize our
1684
02:05:35,338 --> 02:05:41,178
storage we're going to also be able to do mutual aid we're going to essentially uh incentivize the
1685
02:05:41,178 --> 02:05:46,238
protocol to behave in certain ways we expect so there's going to be a 110 flavor of operation
1686
02:05:46,238 --> 02:05:51,698
there's going to be a legacy ots operation of operation and the 110 will have two flavors it'll
1687
02:05:51,698 --> 02:05:56,518
have a pro and anti and so and that'll be built in the protocol like a commitment will be different
1688
02:05:56,518 --> 02:05:59,858
on the 110 flavor than it will be on the anti-110 flavor.
1689
02:06:00,698 --> 02:06:03,218
Essentially, that allows you to create an incentive
1690
02:06:03,218 --> 02:06:07,598
for people to operate the chain as people would expect it to.
1691
02:06:08,078 --> 02:06:10,718
And as a consequence, I want people basically to archive
1692
02:06:10,718 --> 02:06:12,858
this entire movement right now.
1693
02:06:12,898 --> 02:06:15,218
I want to build the tools that we can go and archive
1694
02:06:15,218 --> 02:06:16,978
everything people were saying
1695
02:06:16,978 --> 02:06:18,838
so they can't just delete their tweets
1696
02:06:18,838 --> 02:06:20,058
and say they didn't say that.
1697
02:06:20,438 --> 02:06:21,438
I think that's important.
1698
02:06:21,638 --> 02:06:23,498
Accountability is important, essentially,
1699
02:06:24,038 --> 02:06:25,198
for this paradigm shift,
1700
02:06:25,198 --> 02:06:27,198
for people to admit they were wrong.
1701
02:06:27,618 --> 02:06:28,058
And why?
1702
02:06:28,638 --> 02:06:29,778
You can't just lie.
1703
02:06:30,118 --> 02:06:31,458
We need to hold the liars accountable.
1704
02:06:31,858 --> 02:06:33,938
We need to build the technology necessary to do so.
1705
02:06:34,438 --> 02:06:36,818
And after that, there will be,
1706
02:06:37,178 --> 02:06:38,398
where it was all the tension.
1707
02:06:39,338 --> 02:06:42,178
Really, the tension around 110 is not this and that.
1708
02:06:42,298 --> 02:06:43,598
See, Sam, I don't like this system argument
1709
02:06:43,598 --> 02:06:46,598
because it uses, first of all, law enforcement language,
1710
02:06:46,738 --> 02:06:48,438
which are lower laws of man.
1711
02:06:48,938 --> 02:06:50,778
You should understand that CP is wrong
1712
02:06:50,778 --> 02:06:53,978
regardless of what it is or who is enforcing the law.
1713
02:06:53,978 --> 02:07:10,058
You should always understand that it's wrong anyway. So regardless of the CSAM argument, because it's a very statist argument, I really dislike it. But it's also a complete distraction. The real tension, I think, which is going to essentially reach crisis levels this year.
1714
02:07:10,058 --> 02:07:13,578
Like if you ever read, like I'm actually popping up my laptop with it.
1715
02:07:13,878 --> 02:07:21,458
There's this book, Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions from 1962.
1716
02:07:22,038 --> 02:07:29,398
He basically explains that like science doesn't advance until like our understanding of nature, essentially.
1717
02:07:29,838 --> 02:07:32,618
Remember, science used to be called natural philosophy.
1718
02:07:33,078 --> 02:07:39,198
Our understanding of nature doesn't advance until there is a crisis and you resolve the tension with proof.
1719
02:07:39,198 --> 02:07:41,858
And then it's a paradigm shift.
1720
02:07:41,958 --> 02:07:43,638
That's where we get the term, by the way, paradigm shift.
1721
02:07:44,218 --> 02:07:47,518
People might think I'm filling my head with a bunch of AI slop.
1722
02:07:47,778 --> 02:07:49,258
No, dude, I'm reading books, dude.
1723
02:07:49,418 --> 02:07:50,958
That's where the term came from.
1724
02:07:51,438 --> 02:07:53,138
Paradigm shift, that's where it came from, dude.
1725
02:07:53,918 --> 02:07:55,938
Just saying, my goodness.
1726
02:07:56,118 --> 02:08:00,898
And maybe if your model, whatever you're using, is using the term paradigm shift,
1727
02:08:01,238 --> 02:08:03,978
maybe that's important because maybe it spent a lot of attention
1728
02:08:03,978 --> 02:08:10,958
And, you know, in the process of, you know, Relu and Matt Mull and, you know, like, what is it called?
1729
02:08:11,058 --> 02:08:12,498
Backpropagation gradient descent, right?
1730
02:08:12,778 --> 02:08:17,258
Maybe it's spending a lot of attention on that part because it's interesting.
1731
02:08:17,258 --> 02:08:31,518
Like Thomas Quinn's ideas stand up to this day and applying them to the question right now of will 110 activate, I think is a question really of is Bitcoin a reflection of insights in nature and mathematics?
1732
02:08:31,518 --> 02:08:35,718
is it instead reflective of some other thing
1733
02:08:35,718 --> 02:08:38,498
that isn't really aware of the deeper nature
1734
02:08:38,498 --> 02:08:40,418
of essentially the problem?
1735
02:08:41,258 --> 02:08:42,998
So like, and there's always like, you know,
1736
02:08:43,118 --> 02:08:45,678
another kind of like kernel wisdom people should remember
1737
02:08:45,678 --> 02:08:49,698
is like the industry doesn't evolve or change
1738
02:08:49,698 --> 02:08:52,098
until people have a deeper realization
1739
02:08:52,098 --> 02:08:53,378
of how to better play the game.
1740
02:08:54,118 --> 02:08:57,638
And that's always been the case in the course of Bitcoin
1741
02:08:57,638 --> 02:08:59,718
and just entrepreneurship and innovation in general.
1742
02:09:00,078 --> 02:09:01,418
It's just like we figure out,
1743
02:09:01,518 --> 02:09:04,938
the rules of the game better and they become more clear and the people who are clear-minded
1744
02:09:04,938 --> 02:09:09,598
about the rules of the game including like say like d hawk right the founder of the visa network
1745
02:09:09,598 --> 02:09:16,178
and um he wrote a really fascinating book about like chaos and order the chaotic age um but
1746
02:09:16,178 --> 02:09:34,708
regardless of that um all of that is really fascinating useful to me and just shortcut all of this i i almost 99 certain that 110 will activate and really it activate this yeah and not only that
1747
02:09:34,708 --> 02:09:41,948
i think there will be a capitulation um after uh october where if the month of october passes
1748
02:09:41,948 --> 02:09:44,888
and when 10 is still not merged by core devs,
1749
02:09:45,448 --> 02:09:47,788
it essentially reflects that they are no longer relevant
1750
02:09:47,788 --> 02:09:50,068
because they failed to be good stewards of the protocol.
1751
02:09:52,008 --> 02:09:52,488
Interesting.
1752
02:09:53,928 --> 02:09:54,408
Interesting.
1753
02:09:54,728 --> 02:09:57,288
I hate that we just got there at the time
1754
02:09:57,288 --> 02:09:58,648
that we need to cut it off,
1755
02:09:58,888 --> 02:10:00,708
but let's call this a cliffhanger
1756
02:10:00,708 --> 02:10:03,688
because maybe we'll talk about this a little bit
1757
02:10:03,688 --> 02:10:05,108
in private or whatever
1758
02:10:05,108 --> 02:10:06,828
and potentially do another show
1759
02:10:06,828 --> 02:10:09,208
or short video or something as a follow-up
1760
02:10:09,208 --> 02:10:11,788
because I do have to cut it off here.
1761
02:10:11,948 --> 02:10:20,368
But in other conversation, at least, if at the very least, I'm going to have to dig into your reasoning as to why.
1762
02:10:20,848 --> 02:10:23,508
And we will just say to the audience, screw you guys.
1763
02:10:23,868 --> 02:10:24,488
Y'all don't get to know.
1764
02:10:25,748 --> 02:10:29,188
First of all, by the way, I respect you a lot.
1765
02:10:29,628 --> 02:10:32,948
But right now, I think the less I talk about 110, the better.
1766
02:10:34,248 --> 02:10:35,308
Would you talk about it in private?
1767
02:10:36,148 --> 02:10:38,788
I would love to revisit this conversation in September.
1768
02:10:38,968 --> 02:10:39,488
In September.
1769
02:10:39,788 --> 02:10:40,008
Okay.
1770
02:10:40,008 --> 02:10:40,088
Okay.
1771
02:10:40,088 --> 02:10:46,968
okay and i'll i'll hold you to that and we'll we'll look back on how you thought about it then
1772
02:10:46,968 --> 02:10:54,028
and what played out and how it changed aligned or misaligned yeah sounds good all right well dude
1773
02:10:54,028 --> 02:10:59,248
this has been this has been a trip thanks for shooting me a message sorry i was a little bit
1774
02:10:59,248 --> 02:11:04,828
late um hopefully i didn't like like strike you as like insane that's something that a lot of
1775
02:11:04,828 --> 02:11:06,368
We've had lots of conversations.
1776
02:11:06,988 --> 02:11:12,728
So I was already aware of how this conversation was going to go because it's always wild.
1777
02:11:14,148 --> 02:11:17,868
But ideally, you're not concerned about my mental health, right?
1778
02:11:17,868 --> 02:11:20,428
No, just only the hat.
1779
02:11:21,288 --> 02:11:22,188
Only the hat.
1780
02:11:22,628 --> 02:11:24,488
But everything else, everything else were good.
1781
02:11:25,748 --> 02:11:27,408
I mean, it is a tapered wizard's hat.
1782
02:11:27,568 --> 02:11:34,768
It's because I wear it because, as I said earlier, like I wanted to wear something that essentially says I might know something you don't.
1783
02:11:34,828 --> 02:11:41,648
well i'm interested i've been following what you what you've been doing in the in the signal group
1784
02:11:41,648 --> 02:11:49,408
um and uh sometimes and i mean i've probably got 50 of what you said and it's mostly just because
1785
02:11:49,408 --> 02:11:54,508
we get into references that i have vague ideas about right i don't have like concrete information
1786
02:11:54,508 --> 02:12:01,048
on but oh one thing i i want to also make sure i i say is if you were worried about bit 360 like
1787
02:12:01,048 --> 02:12:02,808
if you want BIP 360 to succeed,
1788
02:12:03,048 --> 02:12:04,848
you should also want 110 to succeed
1789
02:12:04,848 --> 02:12:07,828
because 110 is really important.
1790
02:12:07,928 --> 02:12:09,308
Let's just say in a similar vein.
1791
02:12:10,428 --> 02:12:10,468
Okay.
1792
02:12:11,768 --> 02:12:12,248
Interesting.
1793
02:12:13,188 --> 02:12:13,308
Yeah.
1794
02:12:13,368 --> 02:12:14,888
Like if you're from first principles,
1795
02:12:15,348 --> 02:12:17,008
like if you want to make sure
1796
02:12:17,008 --> 02:12:18,628
that Bitcoin is there for us
1797
02:12:18,628 --> 02:12:20,748
in the future to,
1798
02:12:21,008 --> 02:12:22,488
as essentially like a back,
1799
02:12:22,608 --> 02:12:24,988
a shadow economic system
1800
02:12:24,988 --> 02:12:26,988
that we can rely on as a backup,
1801
02:12:27,088 --> 02:12:28,108
a plan B, let's say,
1802
02:12:28,508 --> 02:12:30,848
in case there's economic populism
1803
02:12:30,848 --> 02:12:33,028
And there's a rise of that, you know, that's happening now.
1804
02:12:33,188 --> 02:12:42,448
And in Germany, I think, is kind of the hotspot right now for like a revival of essentially the kind of rhetoric that the Nazis used.
1805
02:12:42,668 --> 02:12:43,768
Except now they're gay.
1806
02:12:44,088 --> 02:12:46,288
Like the leader of the AFD is a homosexual.
1807
02:12:47,128 --> 02:12:52,608
So it's like literally like Mark Twain always said, you know, history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
1808
02:12:53,828 --> 02:12:58,488
And like the AFD sounds to me a lot like they bring up a lot of national social talking points.
1809
02:12:58,488 --> 02:13:06,328
and uh if you read hayek you know uh you know the 1944 uh the road to serfdom amazing book like it
1810
02:13:06,328 --> 02:13:11,888
basically shuts the door in my opinion on socialism if that doesn't do it for you then read his essay
1811
02:13:11,888 --> 02:13:15,988
the use of knowledge in society which he publishes in the next year where he says like and all of that
1812
02:13:15,988 --> 02:13:20,728
backtest is really well like like china and the usa are a lot more similar than they are different
1813
02:13:20,728 --> 02:13:24,888
they're as far removed from their founding economic principles from adam smith and milton
1814
02:13:24,888 --> 02:13:26,688
Friedman and, well, not Friedman,
1815
02:13:26,908 --> 02:13:28,768
came much later, but Adam Smith and
1816
02:13:28,768 --> 02:13:30,788
Andrew Jackson, right?
1817
02:13:30,868 --> 02:13:32,868
The kind of things they thought about and the way
1818
02:13:32,868 --> 02:13:34,348
they thought about economics and central banking,
1819
02:13:35,048 --> 02:13:36,988
that backtests and explains things a lot
1820
02:13:36,988 --> 02:13:38,948
better than the ideas
1821
02:13:38,948 --> 02:13:40,748
of Mao, Atlanta, and Marx.
1822
02:13:40,968 --> 02:13:42,388
And so, but we're all
1823
02:13:42,388 --> 02:13:44,768
far removed from
1824
02:13:44,768 --> 02:13:46,868
the original founding principles
1825
02:13:46,868 --> 02:13:48,828
either way, but
1826
02:13:48,828 --> 02:13:51,028
China's a lot more capitalist since 1978,
1827
02:13:51,028 --> 02:13:53,188
the reforms of Deng Xiaoping. Our economy
1828
02:13:53,188 --> 02:13:55,408
is a lot more socialist since 1971.
1829
02:13:56,268 --> 02:13:58,748
And so the mixed economy, unfortunately,
1830
02:13:58,908 --> 02:14:01,408
I think is also going to have a capitulation.
1831
02:14:01,968 --> 02:14:04,348
And ideally, we avoid that capitulation.
1832
02:14:04,808 --> 02:14:05,928
I'm sorry cutting into your data.
1833
02:14:06,068 --> 02:14:06,808
I'm so sorry, dude.
1834
02:14:07,228 --> 02:14:09,048
But I just, no, no, again,
1835
02:14:09,228 --> 02:14:10,488
I'm going to cut it off, honestly.
1836
02:14:10,808 --> 02:14:12,028
You can go spend time with your family,
1837
02:14:12,188 --> 02:14:12,788
with your son.
1838
02:14:13,908 --> 02:14:15,268
I'm so grateful you gave me
1839
02:14:15,268 --> 02:14:16,788
as much time as you did.
1840
02:14:17,368 --> 02:14:19,968
And I would love to revisit this conversation
1841
02:14:19,968 --> 02:14:21,108
and whether I was right.
1842
02:14:21,108 --> 02:14:21,788
We will.
1843
02:14:21,788 --> 02:14:26,188
definitely definitely in September let's put it on the calendar man uh thanks for joining me dude
1844
02:14:26,188 --> 02:14:28,928
have a good afternoon but later
1845
02:14:28,928 --> 02:14:38,768
as I noted we will have links and details in the show notes so there will be plenty of things to
1846
02:14:38,768 --> 02:14:44,728
check out many of the things that he mentioned uh and one that I actually had meant to bring back up
1847
02:14:44,728 --> 02:14:53,528
in a in part of the earlier discussion but uh a girdle escher and bach an eternal golden braid
1848
02:14:53,528 --> 02:14:59,288
is a book that i had explored i think i only ever read like a third of it but i was like kind of
1849
02:14:59,288 --> 02:15:03,048
fascinated with it before i ended up getting kind of distracted and never coming back to it but a
1850
02:15:03,048 --> 02:15:07,288
lot of what we talked about in this conversation has me like wanting to go back down that rabbit
1851
02:15:07,288 --> 02:15:12,968
hole again and i always thought it was really interesting and and some of the some kind of out
1852
02:15:12,968 --> 02:15:19,128
their theories that he touched on i feel like have a really interesting basis when you kind of
1853
02:15:19,128 --> 02:15:25,608
try to unify what a lot of the various theories or people think about what we can know and what
1854
02:15:25,608 --> 02:15:32,328
we don't know um so anyway i just wanted to recommend that book in addition because i know
1855
02:15:32,328 --> 02:15:37,608
i will be actually going back to explore it again uh with that don't forget to check out hunter
1856
02:15:37,608 --> 02:15:42,568
beast don't forget to follow what he's doing it will be really interesting to watch and i'll i'm
1857
02:15:42,568 --> 02:15:51,128
Definitely want to get his perspective on what's happening as BIP 110 reaches its activation and signaling days and all of that.
1858
02:15:51,688 --> 02:15:53,028
So we will see.
1859
02:15:53,348 --> 02:15:54,008
We will see.
1860
02:15:54,208 --> 02:15:55,108
He's pretty confident.
1861
02:15:56,168 --> 02:15:57,728
The follow-up will probably be interesting.
1862
02:15:58,208 --> 02:16:00,288
With that, thank you guys for listening.
1863
02:16:00,448 --> 02:16:04,008
Do not forget to check out the Guys Take YouTube channel.
1864
02:16:04,128 --> 02:16:06,268
That will also be down in the show notes.
1865
02:16:06,268 --> 02:16:25,348
We've just kicked this off. So trying to get attention to it or let people know that it's out there is really, really important. And it is hugely helpful for you guys to share it out and go subscribe and like just to give it a little bit of momentum because we're putting a lot of effort into our video content over there.
1866
02:16:25,348 --> 02:16:26,768
And I really think it's going to be good.
1867
02:16:26,768 --> 02:16:44,048
This is this feels like the right direction for what I want to do and how I can like target very specific and concise ideas and and hit them as like an aggregate for, you know, the hundred or so things that I end up exploring around something.
1868
02:16:45,048 --> 02:16:54,048
So that there will be a lot of news and like topical stuff, but then also just kind of like explanations, like essentially an extension of my two sats things.
1869
02:16:54,048 --> 02:16:55,588
They're just kind of all becoming guy sticks.
1870
02:16:55,788 --> 02:16:57,188
So check those out.
1871
02:16:57,628 --> 02:16:58,708
Don't forget to subscribe.
1872
02:16:59,168 --> 02:16:59,688
Share it out.
1873
02:16:59,968 --> 02:17:03,368
Don't forget to get your BitBox discount right down in the show notes.
1874
02:17:03,508 --> 02:17:05,288
That's also another great way to help out the show.
1875
02:17:05,588 --> 02:17:07,708
And I thank you guys for listening and sticking with me.
1876
02:17:07,788 --> 02:17:10,928
And I will catch you on the next episode of Bitcoin Audible.
1877
02:17:11,228 --> 02:17:14,068
And until then, that is our two sets.
1878
02:17:24,048 --> 02:17:45,168
Outro Music