BREAKING: Foundation Phishing Attack Hits Customers - Electrum Users Lose Coins

WEBVTT
1
00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.560
Foundation. Foundation just confirmed over 20 ,000 Fishing
2
00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:30.000
-Eashing emails, hit phishing emails, hit its customers,
3
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.580
after attackers broke into back -end infrastructure through
4
00:00:33.580 --> 00:00:35.700
a vulnerability in a self -hosted app and
5
00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:39.000
took over the support inbox. Zach Herbert says
6
00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.760
those emails, quote, appeared to be legitimate and
7
00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:43.880
more than 19 ,000 went out through Mailgun
8
00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:47.940
alone with one customer, claiming his supposedly deleted
9
00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:50.880
data showed up in the attack anyway. Stop
10
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.100
me, if you've heard that one before. Right
11
00:00:52.100 --> 00:00:55.280
alongside that Electrum has confirmed an RBF vulnerability
12
00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:57.560
that let a malicious server hide your real
13
00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.300
transaction, swap in a fake one, and steal
14
00:01:00.300 --> 00:01:03.480
funds the moment you bump the fee. There's
15
00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:05.400
at least one confirmed loss and the fix
16
00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:09.020
only landed in version 4 .8 .3. Anything
17
00:01:09.020 --> 00:01:13.020
older than that is still exposed. We've also
18
00:01:13.020 --> 00:01:16.720
got a hardware wallet manufacturer, another one, confirming
19
00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:20.760
its own data breach. Are you ready? Lock
20
00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:23.140
in. I brought some friends along. This is
21
00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:31.160
Bitcast. Is it going to play the end?
22
00:01:31.160 --> 00:01:33.740
The issue is not red or blue. The
23
00:01:33.740 --> 00:01:36.020
issue is between the state and you. It
24
00:01:36.020 --> 00:01:37.060
can be a little bit of a warning
25
00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:40.180
sign. It gives you a tool to empower.
26
00:01:40.180 --> 00:01:42.500
That sounds like a utopia, my friend. It
27
00:01:42.500 --> 00:01:45.720
is. It's exactly a utopia. With Bitcoin, no
28
00:01:45.720 --> 00:01:54.640
one can take it from you. Okay, boys.
29
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.780
Hey, listen, I don't know what happened there.
30
00:01:56.780 --> 00:01:59.680
It's just like the worst possible timing. We're
31
00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:01.100
trying to. our best to make sure everything's
32
00:02:01.100 --> 00:02:02.540
good here. Okay, we gotta we gotta take
33
00:02:02.540 --> 00:02:04.540
care of some housekeeping off the top. Brandon
34
00:02:04.540 --> 00:02:06.740
is back. We're gonna get to our guest
35
00:02:06.740 --> 00:02:08.040
obviously at a second front of the show,
36
00:02:08.040 --> 00:02:09.320
American Hall is joining us, of course, but
37
00:02:09.320 --> 00:02:11.340
Brandon is back. Brandon, I don't know, do
38
00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:12.400
you want to tell people what you've been
39
00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:14.080
doing, where you've been, you know, what the
40
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.320
story is here? Yeah, so as some people
41
00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:18.580
know, we've talked about a little bit, obviously
42
00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:21.520
the twins came last Monday and 37 weeks
43
00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.020
and yeah, everything is good. So thank you.
44
00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:27.400
Thanks for the love, prayers, support. They are
45
00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.560
here, but they are, ones in the NICU.
46
00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:31.580
And, uh, doing good and back up the
47
00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:33.040
birth weight. They're both like within an ounce
48
00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:35.780
of their birth weight right now. So all
49
00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:38.220
good to go. Just, you know, five pounds
50
00:02:38.220 --> 00:02:40.460
needs to, you know, get extra calories and
51
00:02:40.460 --> 00:02:42.440
cook a little bit more. So we're hoping
52
00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:45.900
this week should come home. So identical twin
53
00:02:45.900 --> 00:02:49.840
girls. So, yeah, we are, everything's good. Mom's
54
00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.680
good. Everyone's good. And that's what I've been
55
00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.280
doing. So we're back. We might be in
56
00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:55.500
and out a little bit. Who knows? Because
57
00:02:55.500 --> 00:02:56.780
we're driving back and forth to the NICU
58
00:02:56.780 --> 00:02:58.940
and stuff. But just, again, thank you to
59
00:02:58.940 --> 00:03:00.380
love, for our support. I saw it with
60
00:03:00.380 --> 00:03:02.340
Walker earlier, see everything to Carla and the
61
00:03:02.340 --> 00:03:04.240
little one we're going through. So, yeah, we
62
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.200
have a great crew here. Bitcoin crowd is
63
00:03:06.200 --> 00:03:08.680
undefeated. Dude, could not be happier for you
64
00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:10.680
guys as I bought you at another, I
65
00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.400
bought you at another screen share there. Just
66
00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:14.780
one question, Walker, do you want to talk
67
00:03:14.780 --> 00:03:15.960
about what you called them before the show?
68
00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:17.040
I think that's a good nickname. I don't
69
00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:18.900
know if it'll fit in the, like, restream
70
00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:21.660
tags, but we could try. Was it, was
71
00:03:21.660 --> 00:03:25.100
it, was it, Mr. Golden Balls or something?
72
00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:26.420
There's a man with the Golden Ball. The
73
00:03:26.420 --> 00:03:29.320
Golden Balls, yeah. I was like, I already
74
00:03:29.320 --> 00:03:30.760
forgot. I didn't know. It was like, Daddy
75
00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:32.920
Golden Balls. I'm not sure. You know, something
76
00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:34.840
like that. It's got a nice ring to
77
00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:35.580
it. You know, I'm going to get you
78
00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:38.020
shirt to do that. Very good. And obviously
79
00:03:38.020 --> 00:03:40.060
with Ben and Nathan Still in Lugano, we
80
00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:41.920
welcome back our friend, American Hoddle. Thank you
81
00:03:41.920 --> 00:03:44.180
for coming, sir. We appreciate you making time
82
00:03:44.180 --> 00:03:46.100
for us today. How you doing? Good to
83
00:03:46.100 --> 00:03:47.740
be here. My balls are more of a,
84
00:03:47.740 --> 00:03:49.420
they're more of a base, if I'm being
85
00:03:49.420 --> 00:03:52.520
honest with you. You know? I love it.
86
00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:57.100
I love it. I love balls. Very good.
87
00:03:57.100 --> 00:04:00.140
Very good. Joey has balls made of copper.
88
00:04:00.140 --> 00:04:02.620
Mine are, uh, minor of the finest Canadian
89
00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:04.840
gold, which would for sure be repatriated by
90
00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:07.060
my government when things go sideways here in
91
00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:08.300
my country. Does you have to do a
92
00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:11.100
land acknowledgement on your balls? Uh, I should
93
00:04:11.100 --> 00:04:12.180
have to. I don't know if they're going
94
00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:14.180
to enforce that at any point, but, um,
95
00:04:14.180 --> 00:04:15.760
given the way things are going over here,
96
00:04:15.760 --> 00:04:17.240
they'll put me in jail if I don't.
97
00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:21.080
So, yeah, these are, these balls are on
98
00:04:21.080 --> 00:04:23.360
stolen Algonquin land. That's right. Just like to
99
00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.640
acknowledge that. Don't get me started. Okay, so,
100
00:04:26.640 --> 00:04:29.220
uh, as you heard the intro, foundation, we
101
00:04:29.220 --> 00:04:30.060
have, we have spoken, we have spoken a
102
00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:31.260
lot about foundation over the last of a
103
00:04:31.260 --> 00:04:34.940
while. Almost all positive. They've been at the
104
00:04:34.940 --> 00:04:37.640
kind of forefront of a number of different
105
00:04:37.640 --> 00:04:39.820
initiatives as far as like, you know, modernizing
106
00:04:39.820 --> 00:04:41.820
their devices, adding some features that the cold
107
00:04:41.820 --> 00:04:43.480
card had in the wake of that issue
108
00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.540
a few months ago. And Zach, obviously, has
109
00:04:46.540 --> 00:04:48.760
been in this chat, actually, in the in
110
00:04:48.760 --> 00:04:50.940
the show chat talking about some of the
111
00:04:50.940 --> 00:04:53.880
stuff they're doing. But as the story goes,
112
00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:56.200
they are not immune to this either, unfortunately.
113
00:04:56.200 --> 00:04:58.720
So they also had a pretty significant leak
114
00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:02.140
23 ,000 plus fishing emails went out after
115
00:05:02.140 --> 00:05:04.080
their back end was, or I guess a
116
00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:08.340
communications back end was upended by some attacker.
117
00:05:08.340 --> 00:05:10.440
Zach has been pretty vocal about this on
118
00:05:10.440 --> 00:05:12.520
Twitter, you know, giving a little bit, I
119
00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:13.900
think, of reprieve to people who have the
120
00:05:13.900 --> 00:05:16.920
devices, they're safe and, you know, sucks that
121
00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:19.280
your data's out there now. I don't think
122
00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:21.680
they know exactly how much is out there,
123
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.000
but, you know, it's probably as it says
124
00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:29.260
here, your mailing address, phone number, emails, pretty
125
00:05:29.260 --> 00:05:31.740
tough, very, very tough look, given the number
126
00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:34.160
of wrench attacks, obviously. But this is the
127
00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.000
thing that I'm most concerned about, putting aside
128
00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:40.080
this great handle on Twitter. This guy has
129
00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:43.060
a device and tweets to Foundation and reply
130
00:05:43.060 --> 00:05:44.580
to the announcement about the hack. I'm a
131
00:05:44.580 --> 00:05:46.160
little disappointed here. I took the time to
132
00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.620
email you guys asking to have any and
133
00:05:48.620 --> 00:05:50.800
all of my personal data deleted from Foundation's
134
00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:52.980
end. I was replied to on a burner
135
00:05:52.980 --> 00:05:55.240
email account that I provided for confirmation and
136
00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.300
given assurances, blah, blah, blah, blah. and then
137
00:05:57.300 --> 00:05:59.040
he posted a picture of the phishing email
138
00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:03.000
he got with all his info blurred out.
139
00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:07.700
That is like, I think, very, very damaging.
140
00:06:07.700 --> 00:06:09.780
And I don't want to say for sure
141
00:06:09.780 --> 00:06:12.520
that Zach was vocal about whether or not
142
00:06:12.520 --> 00:06:14.360
Cold Card had done something similar. They were
143
00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:18.500
accused of that when their leak happened, that
144
00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:20.580
when people were getting emails about upgrading their
145
00:06:20.580 --> 00:06:22.540
firmware. They were saying, well, wait a minute,
146
00:06:22.540 --> 00:06:24.000
how do you have my information? You're supposed
147
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.840
to delete this information right after I buy
148
00:06:25.840 --> 00:06:26.980
it or 30 days after. after I buy
149
00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:29.020
it, and I bought this device years ago.
150
00:06:29.020 --> 00:06:30.640
I don't know how you guys are reaching
151
00:06:30.640 --> 00:06:32.160
out to me. I'd have to go back
152
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:33.600
and look and see what Zach said. So
153
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:34.440
I don't want to put words in his
154
00:06:34.440 --> 00:06:38.180
mouth. But obviously, this is a pretty significant
155
00:06:38.180 --> 00:06:39.480
hack. We're going to talk a little bit
156
00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.760
more about some of the stuff going on
157
00:06:40.760 --> 00:06:42.340
on on the hardware side. But I'll start
158
00:06:42.340 --> 00:06:45.640
with you since you're the guest. I mean,
159
00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:49.660
it's tough, but certainly there's some responsibility here
160
00:06:49.660 --> 00:06:52.100
that's not, in my view, being taken quite
161
00:06:52.100 --> 00:06:55.100
as seriously as it should be. Yeah, man,
162
00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:59.020
I think that, we're in a dark forest
163
00:06:59.020 --> 00:07:01.200
right now, you know, with the AI hacking
164
00:07:01.200 --> 00:07:04.680
stuff. And, you know, like, is this AI,
165
00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:06.700
is it not? What certainly has happened recently
166
00:07:06.700 --> 00:07:09.860
is that the AI has made it possible
167
00:07:09.860 --> 00:07:12.300
to do an unreasonable amount of work in
168
00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:14.220
order to gain access to certain systems. And
169
00:07:14.220 --> 00:07:15.420
a lot, we're finding out that a lot
170
00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:18.040
of security was actually predicated on the idea
171
00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.020
that, well, this would cause somebody would have
172
00:07:20.020 --> 00:07:21.440
to do an unreasonable amount of work. And
173
00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:22.440
it's like, okay, well, we now have a
174
00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:24.500
machine that does an unreasonable amount of work.
175
00:07:24.500 --> 00:07:27.000
And so we're expecting. many more systems to
176
00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:28.720
be breached, to be hacked, for people to
177
00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:30.800
be doxed, for information to be gone. And
178
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:32.680
it seems that people aren't, I think part
179
00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:33.960
of the thing that's shocking about it is
180
00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:37.300
that, especially in Bitcoin, especially after Cold Card,
181
00:07:37.300 --> 00:07:39.880
there was a lot of, you know, bloviating
182
00:07:39.880 --> 00:07:41.800
from this company, right, and from many other
183
00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:45.060
competitors of Cold Card. This company, because they
184
00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:47.060
had had particular bad blood with NVK in
185
00:07:47.060 --> 00:07:49.100
the past. And, you know, a lot of,
186
00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:50.540
like, we're, this isn't going to happen to
187
00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:51.880
us. We're the best, blah, blah, blah. And
188
00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:53.880
it's like, okay, well, pick your poison, I
189
00:07:53.880 --> 00:07:55.720
guess. Do you want somebody to come to
190
00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:57.620
your house? the fucking gun or do you
191
00:07:57.620 --> 00:07:59.600
want your Bitcoin to teleport in the middle
192
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:01.160
of the night because you didn't do a
193
00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.200
dice roll or whatever so both are extremely
194
00:08:03.200 --> 00:08:06.840
bad scenarios and you know i think basically
195
00:08:06.840 --> 00:08:08.920
what we're finding out is that human code
196
00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:11.580
is shit it's just pure shit and uh
197
00:08:11.580 --> 00:08:13.960
that all these like devs are basically no
198
00:08:13.960 --> 00:08:16.000
different than like a plumber and we've we've
199
00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:17.860
listened for 10 or 15 years we've been
200
00:08:17.860 --> 00:08:19.440
listening to them talk about how only they
201
00:08:19.440 --> 00:08:20.520
can do what they do and it turns
202
00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:21.760
out the computer can do what they do
203
00:08:21.760 --> 00:08:23.280
and if all they do is manage the
204
00:08:23.280 --> 00:08:24.700
fucking computer then what the fuck is the
205
00:08:24.700 --> 00:08:26.580
difference between them and you you, you're a
206
00:08:26.580 --> 00:08:29.860
dev too, we're all devs, I have clawed.
207
00:08:29.860 --> 00:08:31.140
Look, I'm a dev, you know what I
208
00:08:31.140 --> 00:08:36.180
mean? Like, it's fucking stupid. So, I think
209
00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:39.860
that people need to realize how quickly the
210
00:08:39.860 --> 00:08:41.780
landscape has shifted underneath. This is the big
211
00:08:41.780 --> 00:08:44.280
takeaway for me. The landscape has shifted so
212
00:08:44.280 --> 00:08:46.100
fast. You have to start using these tools
213
00:08:46.100 --> 00:08:48.360
immediately. You have to hit the ground running,
214
00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:49.800
and you can't just sit around in a
215
00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:52.000
place of inertia and think that whatever you
216
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.900
did, like, two years ago is good. Whatever
217
00:08:53.900 --> 00:08:55.620
you did six months ago, it even is
218
00:08:55.620 --> 00:08:57.540
good. you have to go back and re
219
00:08:57.540 --> 00:08:59.500
-examine all your priors. Like, what I've been
220
00:08:59.500 --> 00:09:01.340
doing since all this shit's been going, since
221
00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:03.140
Cold Card, which was, what, like, three and
222
00:09:03.140 --> 00:09:04.940
a half months ago or something, I've just
223
00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:07.660
been sort of every day, like, dedicating, I
224
00:09:07.660 --> 00:09:09.940
don't know, two, three hours to cybersecurity, as
225
00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:11.760
though that's, like, you know, my part -time
226
00:09:11.760 --> 00:09:14.980
job, and just going back over my setup
227
00:09:14.980 --> 00:09:17.000
and back over my ops, like, back over
228
00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.480
passwords, back over dependencies, back, all that shit.
229
00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.440
And I think, like, the fact that companies
230
00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.140
aren't out there doing it, especially Bitcoin companies,
231
00:09:25.140 --> 00:09:27.060
is fucked. And if they are doing it
232
00:09:27.060 --> 00:09:28.520
and things are falling through the cracks, then
233
00:09:28.520 --> 00:09:29.740
it's even more fucked. I don't know. The
234
00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:31.680
whole thing is fucked. You know, it's like,
235
00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:33.120
you tell your people to get a hardware
236
00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:34.660
wall. Get your shit off the exchange. Okay,
237
00:09:34.660 --> 00:09:36.180
get a hardware wall, right? Where do you
238
00:09:36.180 --> 00:09:37.320
get it from? You get it from fucking
239
00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:39.540
a third party? Oh, there's a little device
240
00:09:39.540 --> 00:09:41.180
inside that reads the fucking screen. So all
241
00:09:41.180 --> 00:09:44.480
the fancy, complicated, this shit, this fucking thing.
242
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:47.300
All the fancy, complicated fucking secure elements in
243
00:09:47.300 --> 00:09:49.200
this thing. They don't mean shit, because you
244
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.540
can just read the fucking screen, same screen
245
00:09:51.540 --> 00:09:53.660
that you're reading. That's a trusted, that's like
246
00:09:53.660 --> 00:09:55.500
a third party provider. Then you go get
247
00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:57.080
it direct from the. company and the company
248
00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:00.280
leaks your fucking home address. So what the
249
00:10:00.280 --> 00:10:01.980
fuck, man? What the fuck? And then like,
250
00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:03.480
in order for us to tell people with
251
00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:06.120
a straight face to go do self -custody,
252
00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:07.880
we basically have to run them through this
253
00:10:07.880 --> 00:10:10.280
like scenario, this gauntlet where we sound like
254
00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:14.400
crazy fucking insane people who were described. Like,
255
00:10:14.400 --> 00:10:15.560
you know, you got to get a P.
256
00:10:15.560 --> 00:10:18.340
Have you checked on the, you know, the
257
00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:20.120
veracity of your dice? Are they, you know,
258
00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:21.460
where are they coming from? And then also
259
00:10:21.460 --> 00:10:23.640
like, what surface? Yeah, what surface do you
260
00:10:23.640 --> 00:10:25.540
roll on those dice on, right? The whole
261
00:10:25.540 --> 00:10:30.540
thing is. It's like, we all, myself included,
262
00:10:30.540 --> 00:10:32.300
we fucked up. And we wanted to treat
263
00:10:32.300 --> 00:10:34.260
self -custody as though it was easy. And
264
00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:38.140
it's not easy. And it's really fucking hard,
265
00:10:38.140 --> 00:10:39.120
man. It's going to be hard for a
266
00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.100
long fucking time, probably forever. So that's the
267
00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:44.040
way it is. Father of new twins. What
268
00:10:44.040 --> 00:10:46.520
do you think? You know, you're doing a
269
00:10:46.520 --> 00:10:48.580
lot of, obviously, streaming. And I've seen your
270
00:10:48.580 --> 00:10:50.080
chats. People are having these, they have these
271
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:51.820
questions fairly frequently. They did during Cold Card.
272
00:10:51.820 --> 00:10:53.800
I'm sure they will with this, too. You
273
00:10:53.800 --> 00:10:55.240
know, what do you tell them? Do you
274
00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:56.580
tell them anything? Do you lead them to
275
00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:59.020
water? What do you do? Yeah, I mean,
276
00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:00.460
it's a lot of what Hattel just said.
277
00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:01.600
And I think it's, this goes back to
278
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:03.900
having agency and not outsourcing your agency. And
279
00:11:03.900 --> 00:11:05.980
this is, you know, we, we believe, I
280
00:11:05.980 --> 00:11:08.300
think that, you know, you don't change Bitcoin.
281
00:11:08.300 --> 00:11:10.820
Bitcoin changes you. So that means becoming a
282
00:11:10.820 --> 00:11:14.060
better person. That means increasing your EQ, your,
283
00:11:14.060 --> 00:11:15.780
your everything, right? Like just getting better with
284
00:11:15.780 --> 00:11:17.760
your setup. Like Hattel just said, I mean,
285
00:11:17.760 --> 00:11:20.060
spending time on it. And this goes back
286
00:11:20.060 --> 00:11:21.820
to the tradeoffs of life. Life is, you
287
00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:23.600
know, was it Thomas Sol or, I forget
288
00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:25.080
who is, you know, life is, it's a
289
00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.760
series of probabilities and tradeoffs, there's no, like,
290
00:11:27.760 --> 00:11:29.220
you know, it's not a stand -time test.
291
00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:30.480
We talk about this all the time, right?
292
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.100
And the homeschooling thing and Walker, we go
293
00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:33.420
back and forth on these things. All of
294
00:11:33.420 --> 00:11:35.180
us have talked about these things where school
295
00:11:35.180 --> 00:11:37.560
teaches people compulsory school that there's just true
296
00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:39.580
and false. It's just A, C, or D,
297
00:11:39.580 --> 00:11:41.560
and it's life is gray. And there's tradeoffs
298
00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:44.960
for everything. And so that's where you have
299
00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.080
these very simplistic, like even some of the
300
00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.580
older wallets that are, like, they're fine or
301
00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:50.780
maybe got, you know, people haven't written on
302
00:11:50.780 --> 00:11:52.000
paper. And it's like, okay, well, there you
303
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.080
go. But these, these tradeoffs with fancy UI
304
00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:55.720
and UX, like Haudel's saying, I mean, they
305
00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:57.900
come with. tradeoffs. And there's a very real
306
00:11:57.900 --> 00:11:59.140
reality in that. I think this goes back
307
00:11:59.140 --> 00:12:00.340
to, like, we even we saw with the
308
00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:02.740
fork and people, you know, recently forking off,
309
00:12:02.740 --> 00:12:04.240
a lot of that crowd, they wanted, like,
310
00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:05.460
we need to use it as money. It
311
00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:06.680
shouldn't be in Wall Street on the stuff.
312
00:12:06.680 --> 00:12:08.080
Well, at the end of the day, how
313
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:09.280
are we, how are you going to Trojan
314
00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:11.460
Horse anything if we're just constantly trying to
315
00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:13.420
remove everyone from it and just, it's just
316
00:12:13.420 --> 00:12:15.140
a select few people. I mean, look, look
317
00:12:15.140 --> 00:12:17.240
how hard it is in general to get
318
00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.160
people to understand hardware wallets and what's happening.
319
00:12:19.160 --> 00:12:20.780
There's going to have to be hundreds, thousands
320
00:12:20.780 --> 00:12:22.940
of different solutions in different ways into Bitcoin
321
00:12:22.940 --> 00:12:24.520
and how to use Bitcoin and what's happening.
322
00:12:24.520 --> 00:12:25.840
And it's not going to be every way
323
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:27.400
that. Brandon likes doing it or Hoddle or
324
00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:29.060
Joey or Walker or anyone that chat likes
325
00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:30.420
doing it. There's going to be all kinds
326
00:12:30.420 --> 00:12:31.580
of ways that it's going to be done
327
00:12:31.580 --> 00:12:36.360
and own your decisions. You know, have agency,
328
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:39.520
actually go through and actually, you know, maybe,
329
00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:41.480
maybe some people, like we said here all
330
00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:43.720
along, the older crowd. Yeah, maybe they're, they're
331
00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:45.740
in the ETFs. Maybe they're doing, you know,
332
00:12:45.740 --> 00:12:47.020
X, Y, and Z thing. Maybe there's a
333
00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:49.280
crowd that's in self -custody. Obviously, that's the
334
00:12:49.280 --> 00:12:50.860
best. And we have to have that being
335
00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:53.440
in self -custody, but there is the tradeoff.
336
00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.360
And so I think that when you're hard
337
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:56.920
line in the sense, of like everyone has
338
00:12:56.920 --> 00:12:58.640
to do it that way, that's when we
339
00:12:58.640 --> 00:13:00.480
get into problems. When it's a hard line
340
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.560
for yourself or being extreme for yourself, that's
341
00:13:02.560 --> 00:13:04.280
great. You know, and that's where a lot
342
00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:05.680
of us, I think, kind of come from,
343
00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:07.940
generally speaking, just broad brushing it. But when
344
00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:09.640
we try to slap it across humanity and
345
00:13:09.640 --> 00:13:11.220
say, hey, everyone has to be this way
346
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:12.780
and it has to go this way, that's
347
00:13:12.780 --> 00:13:14.680
where I think we limit ourselves and change
348
00:13:14.680 --> 00:13:17.300
ourselves. So you see the AI just exposing
349
00:13:17.300 --> 00:13:20.040
everyone everywhere. And it's not just a Bitcoin
350
00:13:20.040 --> 00:13:22.080
world. It's a legacy world too. And it's
351
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.720
only going to continue. Like Hidal said, this
352
00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:25.280
is only going to continue. In the back
353
00:13:25.280 --> 00:13:26.600
chat, I think it was. you, Joey or
354
00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.860
Walker earlier saying the same thing that the,
355
00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:31.240
you know, the thing, oh, it was Walker
356
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:32.220
was what he was talking about with Carla
357
00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:34.240
and in the coordinates and all the stuff,
358
00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:35.200
right? And so I'm sure people in the
359
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:37.340
chat saw some of that where this is
360
00:13:37.340 --> 00:13:39.040
only, we even scratch the surface. It's only
361
00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:41.240
2026, you know, with what AI is going
362
00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.780
to be capable of doing. So, you know,
363
00:13:43.780 --> 00:13:45.120
get ready. And I think the last thing
364
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.140
I'll say in landing the plane is, you
365
00:13:47.140 --> 00:13:48.720
know, we spend a lot of time trying
366
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.360
to obsec ourselves. Maybe the best solution is
367
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.260
just going to Lexington Green and the North
368
00:13:54.260 --> 00:13:56.040
Bridge and Concord, just saying, you know what?
369
00:13:56.040 --> 00:13:57.740
off what are you going to do and
370
00:13:57.740 --> 00:14:00.760
just taking control you've got Brazil clearly elections
371
00:14:00.760 --> 00:14:02.100
are a scam you've got a you a
372
00:14:02.100 --> 00:14:03.320
lot of EU countries are about to go
373
00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:05.820
start rioting iran people will probably start riding
374
00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:07.260
at some point a rioting is on the
375
00:14:07.260 --> 00:14:08.580
menu for a lot of countries right now
376
00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:10.420
and at some point good men just have
377
00:14:10.420 --> 00:14:12.400
to stand up and say hey what the
378
00:14:12.400 --> 00:14:13.940
fuck are you doing i'm we're not doing
379
00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:15.500
this shit anymore and just trying to run
380
00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:17.140
and hide all the time and everyone's running
381
00:14:17.140 --> 00:14:19.500
and hiding that only gets you so far
382
00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:21.460
and in the big the grim reaper just
383
00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.620
keeps coming keep mowing people down left right
384
00:14:23.620 --> 00:14:25.800
and center and at some point good men
385
00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:27.240
have stand up and say, we're not doing
386
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.840
this anymore. And that to me is the
387
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.060
time that's coming for a lot of people.
388
00:14:32.060 --> 00:14:33.420
It's great to have you back. Walker, I
389
00:14:33.420 --> 00:14:35.220
want to show you something here. You tell
390
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:36.760
me what you think about this. There's obviously
391
00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:38.100
been a couple of these hacks. I don't
392
00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:39.100
know why it keeps going to the link
393
00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:41.360
page, but where's it showing now? I can't
394
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:43.680
even see this thing anymore. It's a complete
395
00:14:43.680 --> 00:14:46.600
disaster meltdown on the stream side of things
396
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.040
here. The thing I wanted to ask you
397
00:14:48.040 --> 00:14:53.060
about is the Keystone hack as well, obviously,
398
00:14:53.060 --> 00:14:55.160
which just was announced today. So two of
399
00:14:55.160 --> 00:14:58.800
these wallets now, with significant data breaches. What
400
00:14:58.800 --> 00:15:01.140
do you do about this? Because now you're
401
00:15:01.140 --> 00:15:03.800
talking about the amplification and ramp -up of
402
00:15:03.800 --> 00:15:05.900
the severity and the complexity. These guys are
403
00:15:05.900 --> 00:15:09.740
another company that looks like had either some
404
00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:12.900
kind of manufacturer, middleman problem or an online
405
00:15:12.900 --> 00:15:15.200
problem with their device verification. So now you
406
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:19.680
got Keystone, you have foundation, you had Cold
407
00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:22.460
Card, you had Ledger. The Ledger won probably
408
00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:24.880
the most insane. And luckily for these guys,
409
00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:26.040
there's just so much of this stuff happening.
410
00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:28.440
happening now that they didn't get a ton
411
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:29.920
of time in the spotlight. That's one thing
412
00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:31.200
I kind of thought about today is how
413
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.220
we were on NVK for like a week
414
00:15:33.220 --> 00:15:35.400
on this show and we were on Ledger
415
00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:38.400
for a day. One's one's third party versus
416
00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:41.220
manufacturer themselves. You know what I mean? I
417
00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:42.620
do think there's like I'm not trying to
418
00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:44.300
go to bat for Ledger here, but I
419
00:15:44.300 --> 00:15:45.620
do think that that is like a fundamental
420
00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:47.560
difference. Now you can see you didn't vet
421
00:15:47.560 --> 00:15:50.720
your third party, your third party distributors well
422
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.400
enough. And that very well may be true.
423
00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:56.380
And that's easy thing to shut down and
424
00:15:56.380 --> 00:15:58.160
say, okay, guess we don't distribute third party
425
00:15:58.160 --> 00:16:01.020
anymore. Like, sorry, I don't know, a bunch
426
00:16:01.020 --> 00:16:03.140
of people in countries where we don't ship
427
00:16:03.140 --> 00:16:04.200
to, like, you're just not going to get
428
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.780
it. Like, I don't, I'll let you finish
429
00:16:07.780 --> 00:16:09.660
that before I maybe go and rant on
430
00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:11.500
this. But was there, was there another part
431
00:16:11.500 --> 00:16:14.500
to that? That's it. I just want to
432
00:16:14.500 --> 00:16:17.300
add, yeah, you sent me something here that's
433
00:16:17.300 --> 00:16:19.520
worth talking about because you and me obviously
434
00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:21.840
have been thinking about this for a while.
435
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:28.220
But, I mean, The ETF, SMSTR, this kind
436
00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:32.380
of stuff, it looks better and better as
437
00:16:32.380 --> 00:16:33.640
the more of this stuff happens. Brandon, you
438
00:16:33.640 --> 00:16:36.240
mentioned it. The old guys, the sort of
439
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:37.720
more risk -averse, people who want exposure to
440
00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.060
Bitcoin are going to go this direction. I
441
00:16:40.060 --> 00:16:41.180
don't know, Walker, if you got some thoughts
442
00:16:41.180 --> 00:16:43.020
on that, too. Let's hear him. Yeah, I
443
00:16:43.020 --> 00:16:44.840
mean, you know, what I said here was
444
00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:46.900
a tweet that I just put out. And
445
00:16:46.900 --> 00:16:48.640
guys, to be clear, I'm saying it in
446
00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:49.720
a little bit of a tongue -in -cheek
447
00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.460
way. But, like, you know who hasn't lost
448
00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:56.460
any Bitcoin or exposed customers' home addresses? and
449
00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:01.120
attacks, well, it's Michael Saylor and Larry Think,
450
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.500
you know? They've got your back. Now, of
451
00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:05.400
course, they can't lose your Bitcoin because you
452
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:08.860
don't have Bitcoin through them, right? And that's
453
00:17:08.860 --> 00:17:12.360
the fundamental thing, right? And again, as I've
454
00:17:12.360 --> 00:17:14.040
always said, if you can't open a PDF,
455
00:17:14.040 --> 00:17:16.360
buy the Bitcoin ETF, right? And although I
456
00:17:16.360 --> 00:17:19.060
am an MSTR shareholder and have been vocally
457
00:17:19.060 --> 00:17:21.100
so, as opposed to Joey, who lied about
458
00:17:21.100 --> 00:17:22.180
it to you guys for months while he
459
00:17:22.180 --> 00:17:25.180
was DCAing MSTR and ragging on Michael Saylor,
460
00:17:25.180 --> 00:17:28.500
while on this stream misleading his loyal fans
461
00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:33.180
of which they're at least three. Nice. I
462
00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:35.560
still won't recommend that you buy MSTR, right?
463
00:17:35.560 --> 00:17:37.800
I will recommend that you buy Spot Bitcoin,
464
00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:40.140
but man, it is getting really hard as
465
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.960
a Bitcoiner, especially if you have somebody like,
466
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.640
the thing about this situation, like the family
467
00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:47.080
member who you, you know, were trying to
468
00:17:47.080 --> 00:17:49.360
orange pill for years, and then you finally
469
00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:50.640
gave up on and then they come back
470
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:52.780
around to you, you know, today. You know,
471
00:17:52.780 --> 00:17:54.180
like, you know what? I think I think
472
00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:56.600
I'm finally ready to take the plunge and
473
00:17:56.600 --> 00:17:58.420
get some bigger one. What would you recommend?
474
00:17:58.420 --> 00:18:00.680
Oh, oh enlightened one, who knows all of
475
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:04.340
the Bitcoin things? What do you tell them?
476
00:18:04.340 --> 00:18:05.980
What do you tell them right now in
477
00:18:05.980 --> 00:18:09.200
good confidence? Like, I would say, depending on
478
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.520
how much capital, like, they're looking to put
479
00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:12.660
in a, you know, a couple thousand bucks,
480
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:14.080
I'd say keep it on the exchange. Not
481
00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:16.500
even a question. Keep, go to River, not
482
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:18.660
sponsored by River, just love their product. I
483
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:20.000
think the team there is fucking awesome and
484
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.600
based. Go to River, set up a, you
485
00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:24.960
know, do a little smash by, set up
486
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.620
a automatic DCA, get that supercharged buys when
487
00:18:27.620 --> 00:18:30.160
it's dipping like now, great, leave it on
488
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:31.680
there, come back to me later when you
489
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.920
have an amount on there that is significant.
490
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.100
That's kind of option one. Two is what
491
00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:40.060
means you tell him like, I wouldn't feel
492
00:18:40.060 --> 00:18:42.260
comfortable telling him to do any single -sig
493
00:18:42.260 --> 00:18:46.240
hardware set up right now. Because there's either
494
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.380
the risk of, hey, your personal info gets
495
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.660
leaked and you become, you know, you get
496
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:53.100
put on a hit list with your home
497
00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:57.680
address. Two. Maybe there's some fucking vulnerability or
498
00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.080
a dev who is, you know, working for
499
00:19:01.080 --> 00:19:03.480
the Chinese communist partisan. I don't fucking, I
500
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.260
don't fucking know anything's in the table now,
501
00:19:05.260 --> 00:19:06.820
right? And they end up getting their Bitcoin
502
00:19:06.820 --> 00:19:08.300
drained. Like, so I don't know, single SIG
503
00:19:08.300 --> 00:19:11.460
probably out. Okay, like, not going to tell
504
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:13.400
them to do a homegrown multi -sig setup
505
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.040
because they're just starting out. I'm not going
506
00:19:16.040 --> 00:19:17.180
to fucking tell them that. I'm certainly not
507
00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:18.260
going to fucking tell them to go roll
508
00:19:18.260 --> 00:19:20.540
some dice and do the Nathan way. And
509
00:19:20.540 --> 00:19:22.040
you're going to need to get a laboratory
510
00:19:22.040 --> 00:19:23.860
grade scale to make sure those, you know,
511
00:19:23.860 --> 00:19:26.240
those dice are exactly, uh, exactly at the,
512
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:28.960
you know, specificity they need to be. And,
513
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.760
like, you know, measure the solar flares coming
514
00:19:30.760 --> 00:19:32.560
off of the sun to generate additional entropy
515
00:19:32.560 --> 00:19:33.980
on top of your dice rolls. Like, that's
516
00:19:33.980 --> 00:19:37.180
a pretty good way to do it. Like,
517
00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:38.120
fuck, what do you, what do you tell
518
00:19:38.120 --> 00:19:40.360
people? Like, you can't tell them any of
519
00:19:40.360 --> 00:19:41.820
those things. So then it's like collaborative multi
520
00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:44.280
-sig or like a product, like, uh, it's
521
00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:47.380
like CASA. I personally use CASA with multiple
522
00:19:47.380 --> 00:19:50.200
different, uh, types of hardware. Happy to, happy
523
00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:51.400
to say that and happy to also say
524
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:53.860
like, uh, also not sponsored by CASA. Anchor
525
00:19:53.860 --> 00:19:56.320
watch is another one where it's like, okay,
526
00:19:56.320 --> 00:19:58.480
collaborative multi -sig and then also you got
527
00:19:58.480 --> 00:19:59.980
the insurance angle on there so even if
528
00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:01.620
something gets fawked hey you got the insurance
529
00:20:01.620 --> 00:20:03.060
like you can get you can get your
530
00:20:03.060 --> 00:20:04.680
money back that's looking a heck of a
531
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.220
lot more attractive right now but other than
532
00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:11.500
that i don't know how you can recommend
533
00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:13.580
like a single sig set up in good
534
00:20:13.580 --> 00:20:15.240
faith to anyone i don't know how any
535
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.620
bitcoin or does just a one like all
536
00:20:17.620 --> 00:20:19.320
of their coins on one single sig set
537
00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:23.000
up i think that's wildly wildly irresponsible especially
538
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.080
if you have a family uh there's no
539
00:20:25.080 --> 00:20:26.320
not to make meant to be offensive to
540
00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:29.120
anyone. I just think that's incredibly irresponsible if
541
00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:31.340
you are the, if you are a dad
542
00:20:31.340 --> 00:20:33.200
and a husband and you are not managing
543
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.920
risk properly by distributing that risk, at least
544
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.040
in some sort of, you know, multi -saker
545
00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:42.360
collaborative custody method. Like, but you can't just
546
00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:45.140
tell somebody, you know, your aunt Jemima or
547
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:48.480
whatever her name is, Aunt Jimithy, who just
548
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.040
finally came around to Bitcoin and wants to
549
00:20:50.040 --> 00:20:51.560
put a little bit of her social security
550
00:20:51.560 --> 00:20:53.760
money into it. Like, you're not going to
551
00:20:53.760 --> 00:20:56.520
tell her to do self -custy right now,
552
00:20:56.520 --> 00:20:58.840
that would be irresponsible, to be honest. And
553
00:20:58.840 --> 00:21:01.860
that sucks. Like, that sucks for us Bitcoiners
554
00:21:01.860 --> 00:21:04.640
who want people to, you know, be sovereign
555
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:05.980
and do the right thing and all these
556
00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:09.360
things. Like, but as myself and I mean,
557
00:21:09.360 --> 00:21:10.640
I think probably all of us on this
558
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.600
show right now have said, like, self -custody
559
00:21:13.600 --> 00:21:16.200
was never going to be for everyone. I
560
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.380
don't think anyway. I don't want to put
561
00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:19.280
words in your guy's mouth. Maybe you disagree.
562
00:21:19.280 --> 00:21:21.200
I don't think it's ever been for everyone.
563
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.180
First of all, because the UTXO set wouldn't
564
00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:26.740
allow it. But secondly, because honestly, most people
565
00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:29.000
aren't going to do it right. And even
566
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:30.560
if they do it right, like all the
567
00:21:30.560 --> 00:21:33.180
bitcointers who did it right with cold card,
568
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:36.220
they can still get fucked. So, like, I
569
00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:38.740
think that's irresponsible to recommend single -sig at
570
00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:41.120
this point to anyone. And you should probably
571
00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:42.240
just, if you got just a little bit
572
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.900
of Bitcoin, sucks to say, guys, but you
573
00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:46.920
should just keep it on a fucking exchange.
574
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:47.800
Like, I know I'm not going to pass
575
00:21:47.800 --> 00:21:49.100
some purity test for that, but it's the
576
00:21:49.100 --> 00:21:51.520
fucking reality. Like, deal with it. End of
577
00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:54.480
rant. If you're new, for sure, there's a
578
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.000
lot. There's risks now that just weren't present
579
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.380
10 years ago because the asset class has
580
00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:59.620
matured to the point where it's become a
581
00:21:59.620 --> 00:22:00.980
honeypot. And I don't think there's any doubt
582
00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:02.260
about that. I think you're right, Rocker. There
583
00:22:02.260 --> 00:22:05.440
are purity testers, some of which that, you
584
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:06.800
know, we're probably friends with, the four of
585
00:22:06.800 --> 00:22:10.320
us, who did get on people big time
586
00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:13.440
about custody and taking stuff off exchanges. Now,
587
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.380
it's not just hardware, electron wallet, also confirming
588
00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:20.860
a critical security bug today. I mean, I
589
00:22:20.860 --> 00:22:23.040
don't know, I don't know where you're supposed
590
00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:26.640
to hide. this is an RBF attack. So
591
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.020
if you try to increase a fee on
592
00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:30.960
a transaction, it ends up being a malicious
593
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.400
transaction issue and you lose the funds. There's
594
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:35.900
only one documented case so far, but I
595
00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:37.460
question how many people are really tracking their
596
00:22:37.460 --> 00:22:39.260
transactions once they leave the wallet. Like, I
597
00:22:39.260 --> 00:22:41.920
suspect this will probably grow a little bit
598
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.500
in the coming days. One thing we've talked
599
00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:46.000
about on this show in the last, you
600
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:48.160
know, month or so, given the AI spin
601
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.800
that's happening now, basically everywhere, is, and you
602
00:22:51.800 --> 00:22:55.380
mentioned it, Hoddle, how much are, you personally
603
00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:57.320
spending on cybersecurity as far as time and
604
00:22:57.320 --> 00:23:00.060
resources, that's an indication of how important it
605
00:23:00.060 --> 00:23:01.440
is to you, and it should be very
606
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:02.620
important to you. You know, are you spending
607
00:23:02.620 --> 00:23:06.000
more on your PlayStation Plus membership than you
608
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.860
are on your cloud membership? If that's the
609
00:23:07.860 --> 00:23:11.240
case, you've got to reassess. You know, two,
610
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.740
the companies you're using, whether they are wallets
611
00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:17.820
or banks or, you know, basically anything that
612
00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:19.660
has access to any funds of yours, your
613
00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:24.200
ID, your identification, your, your, you know, critical
614
00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:26.280
influence. How much are they spending on these
615
00:23:26.280 --> 00:23:30.080
things? Are they part of the tight -knit
616
00:23:30.080 --> 00:23:33.160
group that has access to these like unencumbered
617
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.340
models, the obliterated models, as the phrasing goes,
618
00:23:36.340 --> 00:23:39.400
I think? Are they taking this stuff seriously?
619
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.500
Or are they putting out, you know, nonsense
620
00:23:41.500 --> 00:23:43.500
and slop and things like this with AI?
621
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.000
How are they using the tools? Those two
622
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.280
things were not even calculations before Walker, you're
623
00:23:48.280 --> 00:23:49.380
right. And I think a lot of people
624
00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:52.060
who are talking about, okay, well, self -custody
625
00:23:52.060 --> 00:23:54.040
is still the way for everybody. It's worth
626
00:23:54.040 --> 00:23:55.900
talking. It's worth talking. about, you know, new
627
00:23:55.900 --> 00:24:01.980
wallets, new hardware, stuff like that. I struggle
628
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:05.340
to come up with something to say to
629
00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:07.160
them. And not only that, how much responsibility
630
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:09.320
do you want if something like this goes
631
00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:12.300
sideways? Like, you can't predict what that person
632
00:24:12.300 --> 00:24:13.340
will do with the hardware when you're not
633
00:24:13.340 --> 00:24:15.320
around, number one. And number two, even if
634
00:24:15.320 --> 00:24:17.000
they do everything right, you can't predict that
635
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.880
the company's going to keep them safe anymore.
636
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:20.980
Howl, where do you come down on all
637
00:24:20.980 --> 00:24:22.780
this stuff, buddy? Well, yeah, one of the
638
00:24:22.780 --> 00:24:24.660
problems with, um, B, B, you know, being
639
00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:26.880
the uncle Jim in your, you know, friend's
640
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:28.780
life, uh, and you're, you're the Bitcoin guy
641
00:24:28.780 --> 00:24:30.320
and you're going to give recommendations or whatever
642
00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:33.580
is that you become a babysitter for a
643
00:24:33.580 --> 00:24:36.760
little baby guys and you got to hold
644
00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:39.820
their hand, not just at inception when you're
645
00:24:39.820 --> 00:24:43.100
setting up the wallet, but forever afterwards. And
646
00:24:43.100 --> 00:24:44.720
like, there were a lot of people who
647
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:46.480
during the cold card hack were getting calls
648
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.660
left and right from, you know, friends and
649
00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:50.020
family who were like, what, this thing we
650
00:24:50.020 --> 00:24:51.140
set up at Thanksgiving, like, what do we
651
00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:52.180
do? Well, like, what do I do, you
652
00:24:52.180 --> 00:24:54.800
know? And people were hopping on airplanes driving
653
00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:56.640
across the country and, like, getting on phone
654
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:01.300
calls, and, you know, I, it's, it sucks,
655
00:25:01.300 --> 00:25:04.980
man. It sucks, man. So, I think, you
656
00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:08.600
know, there's this mental model I've had in
657
00:25:08.600 --> 00:25:10.500
my head for a while, just having a
658
00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:12.360
lot of talks with my friend, Jon Seth,
659
00:25:12.360 --> 00:25:16.020
who's, you know, Bitcoin OG. And he basically,
660
00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:18.540
we always talk about the efficient market hypothesis
661
00:25:18.540 --> 00:25:21.640
and why we, as Bitcoiners are getting paid
662
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.780
outside the efficient market hypothesis. Why are we
663
00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:25.820
performing so much better? Shouldn't the market be
664
00:25:25.820 --> 00:25:28.120
efficient? Shouldn't this all be priced in? And
665
00:25:28.120 --> 00:25:30.660
you have to be, you know, in EMH,
666
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:32.060
like strong form, weak form, you have to
667
00:25:32.060 --> 00:25:34.980
be getting paid for something. And Junson told
668
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:36.860
me, he believes that we are getting paid
669
00:25:36.860 --> 00:25:39.260
for custody risk. And that is what we've
670
00:25:39.260 --> 00:25:41.160
been being paid for the whole time. So
671
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.720
in some sense, it's kind of inextricable to
672
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:50.260
being a bitcoiner. Like, you are not going
673
00:25:50.260 --> 00:25:53.900
to be able to from because. Custody risk
674
00:25:53.900 --> 00:25:55.580
is the thing that yours is very hard
675
00:25:55.580 --> 00:25:58.840
to hang on to the Bitcoin. I do
676
00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:02.920
like that theory. I don't know how much
677
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:04.500
longer that's going to be the case, but
678
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:06.860
I think it's true that you do pay
679
00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:09.580
some, you get paid some premium for that
680
00:26:09.580 --> 00:26:13.200
skill set. Brandon, you know, when you think
681
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:17.120
about custody efficient markets, you know, what are
682
00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:18.840
we really being paid for as Bitcoiners? Are
683
00:26:18.840 --> 00:26:20.700
we being paid to sit and wait or
684
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:22.100
are we being paid for what we're doing
685
00:26:22.100 --> 00:26:24.300
while we're sitting and waiting? You agree, you
686
00:26:24.300 --> 00:26:26.340
disagree? I have not, I actually not heard
687
00:26:26.340 --> 00:26:27.760
that. I don't think that Junice has talked
688
00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:30.420
about that anywhere. So that's, that's interesting. Yeah,
689
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:32.760
no, I totally agree because it just goes
690
00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:34.700
back to everyone wants to have their cake
691
00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:36.240
and eat it too, right? Like, everyone wants
692
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.960
to, like, beat, you know, oh, I have
693
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.340
a billion, you know, cuck bucks because I
694
00:26:41.340 --> 00:26:43.320
got into Bitcoin early, but no one wants
695
00:26:43.320 --> 00:26:45.640
to put that work in. Like, again, people,
696
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.720
like, beat themselves up. It's like, dude, 90,
697
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.660
you know, almost no in the world could
698
00:26:50.660 --> 00:26:53.140
Bitcoin, you know, 15 years ago. Like, you
699
00:26:53.140 --> 00:26:54.260
didn't know what the hell to do. None
700
00:26:54.260 --> 00:26:55.120
of us knew what the hell to do
701
00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:57.900
15 years ago. Like, is this, you know,
702
00:26:57.900 --> 00:26:59.900
few people that could do it and the
703
00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:01.680
beauty of going through. Because look at here
704
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.860
now, the, this exact thing, like Hoddle's mentioning,
705
00:27:04.860 --> 00:27:07.040
this, um, consternation that we're going through, like
706
00:27:07.040 --> 00:27:09.100
the fork battles, people at each other's throat,
707
00:27:09.100 --> 00:27:11.700
the custody, all, the AI. These are battles.
708
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:13.360
These are things that have happened, you know,
709
00:27:13.360 --> 00:27:14.600
in different forms, but some of them the
710
00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:16.440
same thing 10 years ago and 8 years
711
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.900
ago and 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 years
712
00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:21.700
ago. So these things have been happening in
713
00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:23.300
that, to, to, you know, to. Haudel's point
714
00:27:23.300 --> 00:27:25.240
in what you're saying with Junset is that
715
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:28.980
that is this risk. You're carrying this premium
716
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:32.220
that is accrues to Bitcoin because you're the
717
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:35.100
early adopters. You're the people in that first,
718
00:27:35.100 --> 00:27:37.060
you know, generation or so that are coming
719
00:27:37.060 --> 00:27:38.380
in saying, hey, I'm going to take some
720
00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:40.060
arrows in my back. I might lose some
721
00:27:40.060 --> 00:27:41.980
Bitcoin. I might spend some too early. I
722
00:27:41.980 --> 00:27:43.880
might do X, Y and Z thing, and
723
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:45.420
I get marred along the way a little
724
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:47.340
bit, but, you know, damn it, it was
725
00:27:47.340 --> 00:27:48.860
worth it. It's like, again, it's like the
726
00:27:48.860 --> 00:27:50.780
American Revolution. We mentioned it earlier, right? We
727
00:27:50.780 --> 00:27:52.380
talked about on this show. It's like, not
728
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:54.100
everyone made it, you know, but a lot
729
00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:56.020
of people did make it. The couple percent
730
00:27:56.020 --> 00:27:58.280
of people took up arms and said, hey,
731
00:27:58.280 --> 00:27:59.560
this is worth it to me. And then
732
00:27:59.560 --> 00:28:01.160
the other, there's a lot of people, they
733
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:03.300
were British loyalists. They still benefited. They still
734
00:28:03.300 --> 00:28:04.640
got the Constitution. They got the Bill of
735
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:06.160
Rights. They got it. They did nothing. They
736
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.960
were actually against it. And they still won
737
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:09.280
at the end of the day. And that's,
738
00:28:09.280 --> 00:28:10.960
I think it's hard as a human to
739
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.920
accept that and just be okay with that
740
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:14.160
and say, you know what? I'm at peace
741
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:16.660
with doing what I think is right. And
742
00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:18.600
it's just the human in us that wants
743
00:28:18.600 --> 00:28:19.900
to just have a kick you to where
744
00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:21.000
it's like, oh, I want none of the
745
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.820
risk and none of the chaos, But I
746
00:28:22.820 --> 00:28:24.380
want to get like the upside as well.
747
00:28:24.380 --> 00:28:25.840
That's just how it works. It's just, it's
748
00:28:25.840 --> 00:28:27.760
tradeoffs and probabilities like we said earlier. That's
749
00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:30.480
a great point. The risk is inextricable. It's
750
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:32.840
completely linked to Bitcoin, and it will be
751
00:28:32.840 --> 00:28:35.100
until we reach some sort of a plateau
752
00:28:35.100 --> 00:28:37.840
here. And I, you know, I think if
753
00:28:37.840 --> 00:28:39.860
you look at the threats, Bitcoin has to
754
00:28:39.860 --> 00:28:41.380
go through in the world. It's like Bitcoin
755
00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:43.400
had to go through like being shadowy, you
756
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.180
know, supercoder drug money in the beginning. Then
757
00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:47.500
it's got to go through this wave of
758
00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:49.300
AI attacks. It probably will have to go
759
00:28:49.300 --> 00:28:51.980
through a wave of quantum compute. And, you
760
00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:53.100
know, there might be sub -sadowing. subsequent waves
761
00:28:53.100 --> 00:28:55.660
after that that we can't even see yet.
762
00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:56.680
And so I think it's going to be
763
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.740
just, this is the thing. You got to
764
00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:01.080
make it from here to there with your
765
00:29:01.080 --> 00:29:03.920
Bitcoin. How you do that, I think it's
766
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.880
a much broader question than we've been talking
767
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.300
about for years in the Bitcoin community. And
768
00:29:09.300 --> 00:29:10.740
I think we've all been like, there's one
769
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:12.260
answer and it's this. And it's like, that's
770
00:29:12.260 --> 00:29:15.060
not true, actually. There are ways to make
771
00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:17.180
it from here to there. And I don't
772
00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:18.820
even necessarily know that it's about the type
773
00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:20.260
of person you are. I think it's maybe
774
00:29:20.260 --> 00:29:23.360
about the time and the moment. market that
775
00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:25.340
it is. For instance, like, the amount of
776
00:29:25.340 --> 00:29:27.060
time and effort that you have to put
777
00:29:27.060 --> 00:29:29.480
in in a cybersecurity sense, you have to
778
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:31.040
be a pretty, okay, in order to be
779
00:29:31.040 --> 00:29:33.160
like pretty good and pretty secure on like
780
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:35.180
the Bitcoin self -custody side over the next,
781
00:29:35.180 --> 00:29:36.940
like, let's say, two years, you have to
782
00:29:36.940 --> 00:29:40.600
be pretty tech forward with LLMs, probably. You
783
00:29:40.600 --> 00:29:44.160
have to be pretty savvy about Bitcoin security
784
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.000
and Bitcoin custody in general. And then, you
785
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:48.920
know, you have to be calm, cool, collected,
786
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:50.560
and level -headed. And like, that's kind of
787
00:29:50.560 --> 00:29:52.480
a narrow band of people. There's not that
788
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.620
many. people in that band. So like, let's
789
00:29:54.620 --> 00:29:56.120
say that people need to be in, like,
790
00:29:56.120 --> 00:29:57.420
I don't know, the ETFs with the ability
791
00:29:57.420 --> 00:29:59.480
to custody, uh, to take custody back at
792
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:01.620
some point for like a stretch of time.
793
00:30:01.620 --> 00:30:04.820
I think it's fine. Exchanges, same thing, different
794
00:30:04.820 --> 00:30:07.580
multisicorum, same thing. There is no like, again,
795
00:30:07.580 --> 00:30:09.180
it's like what Brandon just said. This, this
796
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.360
idea that we want to reach for this
797
00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:13.000
one right answer to make it easy on
798
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.680
ourselves, psychologically easy, is fake. It's not going
799
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:18.580
to be psychologically easy. It's going to be
800
00:30:18.580 --> 00:30:21.440
psychologically difficult. Okay. This is not going to
801
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.440
be easy, piece. This is not going to
802
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:24.100
be easy, piece. lemon squeezy. This is going
803
00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:26.700
to be difficult, difficult, lemon difficult. Do you
804
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:28.940
know what I'm saying? Yeah. I get it.
805
00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:30.160
Walker, you want to add something there? Maybe
806
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:31.700
do your ad and then I'll tee you
807
00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:33.440
up for the next story as well. Just
808
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:35.400
very quickly, I agree with what these guys
809
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:36.720
are saying. And I think like this is
810
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.320
the big, there's been a little bit of
811
00:30:38.320 --> 00:30:40.800
a reckoning for bit pointers, I think, where
812
00:30:40.800 --> 00:30:43.460
it's, I mean, it's things that should have
813
00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:45.340
been obvious, but perhaps weren't because we were
814
00:30:45.340 --> 00:30:49.240
a little bit too blinded by our desire
815
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.900
to help people do things right. The reality
816
00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:56.120
is that doing things right, doing things, quote,
817
00:30:56.120 --> 00:30:59.020
right, is not right for everyone. Everybody needs
818
00:30:59.020 --> 00:31:00.680
to evaluate this at a personal level. Also,
819
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:02.600
nobody can make this decision for you. You
820
00:31:02.600 --> 00:31:04.020
don't have to listen to any fucking one
821
00:31:04.020 --> 00:31:05.740
of us. Do what you think is going
822
00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:07.400
to work out best, but then own that,
823
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:09.160
you know, to Brandon's point, take the responsibility
824
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.360
for it. Because it is on you, if
825
00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:13.140
you screw something up. And if you, you
826
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:16.020
know, are running your own, like, you know,
827
00:31:16.020 --> 00:31:18.100
a homegrown Bitcoin custody set up and your
828
00:31:18.100 --> 00:31:21.020
PGP gets compromised. Then you report. every core
829
00:31:21.020 --> 00:31:22.800
dev to the FBI and then you, you
830
00:31:22.800 --> 00:31:24.620
know, fork off Bitcoin or something like that.
831
00:31:24.620 --> 00:31:28.180
Like, that's on you. That is on you.
832
00:31:28.180 --> 00:31:29.880
And again, do what is going to be
833
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:31.140
right for you and your family that you
834
00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.220
are comfortable with. And also just like spread
835
00:31:33.220 --> 00:31:36.060
out your risk a little bit. Like, you
836
00:31:36.060 --> 00:31:38.420
know, it's like, oh, with Bitcoin, you don't
837
00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:39.640
have to say the whole, you don't, you
838
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:40.780
know, you can have all your eggs in
839
00:31:40.780 --> 00:31:42.840
one basket and it's okay. Yeah, but like,
840
00:31:42.840 --> 00:31:44.820
make sure that basket isn't a single point
841
00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:46.820
of failure for you, too. You can still
842
00:31:46.820 --> 00:31:48.380
be all in on Bitcoin exposure, if that's
843
00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:50.160
what you want to be. But make sure
844
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:50.880
that there's, you're, you know, isn't a single
845
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:52.840
point of failure in that Bitcoin exposure that
846
00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:56.200
results in you losing all of the coins,
847
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:58.100
all the stats that you've worked, worked your
848
00:31:58.100 --> 00:32:00.440
ass off for and sacrificed for. Like, that
849
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.400
is the part that breaks my heart the
850
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:03.800
most thing with all these things happening. It's
851
00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:05.840
like, Bitcoin is the ones who try to
852
00:32:05.840 --> 00:32:10.520
do things right. Made sacrifices. Fucking, you know,
853
00:32:10.520 --> 00:32:13.140
did the American huddle move, riding a fucking
854
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:15.780
moped like a, you know, crazy person, like
855
00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:19.020
doing things that are like, you know, out
856
00:32:19.020 --> 00:32:22.000
there. off and then you do all that
857
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:23.860
stuff right and you still get boned that
858
00:32:23.860 --> 00:32:26.240
there's no two ways around that that just
859
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.380
fucking sucks so do what you need to
860
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:31.540
do to spread out your risk be realistic
861
00:32:31.540 --> 00:32:33.580
about this and you don't have to work
862
00:32:33.580 --> 00:32:35.780
like the time for like purity tests around
863
00:32:35.780 --> 00:32:39.120
this shit is done it's done whatever you
864
00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:41.160
need to do to not get fucked is
865
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:42.940
what you should be doing end of rent
866
00:32:42.940 --> 00:32:46.100
love that love that okay boys good really
867
00:32:46.100 --> 00:32:48.800
really great yeah go ahead the I think
868
00:32:48.800 --> 00:32:51.000
that plate is there's there's a lot there's
869
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.920
a fair amount of people that have Bitcoin.
870
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.840
And I think the memes of self -custody
871
00:32:55.840 --> 00:32:58.200
have done its job. Not to say there's
872
00:32:58.200 --> 00:32:59.560
going to be more in the future that
873
00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:02.340
won't. However, we've done a good job, you
874
00:33:02.340 --> 00:33:04.160
know, and everyone has it's saying, hey, you
875
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:05.380
need to self -custody. Well, that's got a
876
00:33:05.380 --> 00:33:06.740
lot of people into self -custody. That will
877
00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:08.520
be fine over time. And there will be
878
00:33:08.520 --> 00:33:10.000
a lot of people that are fine, which
879
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.900
creates that base layer, which a lot of
880
00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:13.320
the coins, most of coins, are in private
881
00:33:13.320 --> 00:33:15.720
custody still. And that's amazing. And so now
882
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:17.400
you're trying to get these other upper echelons
883
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.100
like the guys are talking about. that's where
884
00:33:19.100 --> 00:33:21.280
these different solutions are going to come about.
885
00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:22.360
And that's just the way of the world.
886
00:33:22.360 --> 00:33:24.500
So anyway, it didn't go for not because
887
00:33:24.500 --> 00:33:26.040
a lot of people are in self -custody
888
00:33:26.040 --> 00:33:28.100
and did learn these things because of that
889
00:33:28.100 --> 00:33:30.360
culture. Now the culture changes, which is tough
890
00:33:30.360 --> 00:33:31.780
for all of us, changes tough. And now
891
00:33:31.780 --> 00:33:33.640
we're starting to learn that, going back to
892
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:34.960
the purity testing is what the guys are
893
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:37.280
speaking of. Yeah, I agree with everything you
894
00:33:37.280 --> 00:33:40.380
guys said there. It's well put. And, you
895
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:42.260
know, it is true that there comes a
896
00:33:42.260 --> 00:33:43.980
point where it's like, we've done, we've done
897
00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:46.040
what we could. And now we're going to
898
00:33:46.040 --> 00:33:48.040
the next, you know, sort of era for
899
00:33:48.040 --> 00:33:50.300
custody. for Bitcoin. Yeah, exactly. And so if
900
00:33:50.300 --> 00:33:51.560
you got it, you got it, if you
901
00:33:51.560 --> 00:33:54.960
didn't, well, you know, good luck moving on.
902
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:56.500
And we hope for the best for you.
903
00:33:56.500 --> 00:33:58.040
When we come back, we're going to talk
904
00:33:58.040 --> 00:34:01.400
about some big AI stories. Some anthropic S1
905
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:03.760
stuff and I think maybe some other, maybe
906
00:34:03.760 --> 00:34:07.440
more important stories about the side effects of
907
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:08.800
these things proliferating. So if you're in the
908
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.440
chat, drop a like, subscribe, throw some chairs,
909
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:12.760
call us names and all that good stuff.
910
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.160
We'll be back in a minute or two.
911
00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:16.700
Unless for some reason you think they're about
912
00:34:16.700 --> 00:34:18.620
to stop printing and stop borrowing, You know
913
00:34:18.620 --> 00:34:20.600
exactly where Bitcoin is going, and whether your
914
00:34:20.600 --> 00:34:21.980
stack is already at the size, where you
915
00:34:21.980 --> 00:34:23.040
know you should do something about it, or
916
00:34:23.040 --> 00:34:24.780
it's headed there, it's time your security caught
917
00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:27.320
up. That's why you need CASA Premium. Your
918
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:30.040
Bitcoin secured across five keys. Three on hardware,
919
00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:31.560
from different vendors, one on your phone, and
920
00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:33.620
one held by CASA. Use any three to
921
00:34:33.620 --> 00:34:35.080
sign, which means if you lose one key,
922
00:34:35.080 --> 00:34:36.880
you don't lose your stack. It also means
923
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:38.740
that CASA can't move it without you. The
924
00:34:38.740 --> 00:34:40.200
kit, devices and everything that goes with it,
925
00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:41.600
ships right to your door, and their advisory
926
00:34:41.600 --> 00:34:43.500
team walks you through the full setup. And
927
00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:44.660
for those of you who care about privacy
928
00:34:44.660 --> 00:34:46.280
as much as I do, there's no KYC
929
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:47.860
on the vault. Use any email you like.
930
00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:49.380
Use any address you like. No one has
931
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:51.260
to know your personal details. I know what
932
00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:52.680
you're thinking, what if something happens to CASA?
933
00:34:52.680 --> 00:34:54.400
What about my family? Well, Sob and recover
934
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:55.960
means that you can always rebuild using open
935
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:57.760
source tools like Sparrow. And as for your
936
00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:59.900
family, CASA inheritance means you're not leaving them
937
00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:01.700
a locked box with no key. You invite
938
00:35:01.700 --> 00:35:02.920
them with an email, and their key lies
939
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:04.540
dormant while you're still alive, and should that
940
00:35:04.540 --> 00:35:06.100
day ever come, you don't have to worry
941
00:35:06.100 --> 00:35:07.420
about them having to figure it out when
942
00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:09.320
you're not around to ask. You've already taken
943
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:11.180
care of it. So head to CASA .io
944
00:35:11.180 --> 00:35:13.400
slash Sessions promo code Sessions to receive 10
945
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:15.820
% off your first year. That's cossa .io
946
00:35:15.820 --> 00:35:18.300
slash Sessions code Sessions. Click the link in
947
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:19.680
the description down below or scan the QR
948
00:35:19.680 --> 00:35:22.400
code on the screen. One company I like
949
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.620
pointing people to when they ask about Bitcoin
950
00:35:24.620 --> 00:35:27.640
mining is Abundant Mines. They were founded by
951
00:35:27.640 --> 00:35:30.540
Beau and Christine Turner after losing over half
952
00:35:30.540 --> 00:35:32.720
a million dollars to broken promises in the
953
00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:35.280
mining industry. And they built their hosting model
954
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.520
to remove the usual headaches. With abundant mines,
955
00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:40.980
you own your machines and keep 100 %
956
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.280
of the Bitcoin you mine. There's no revenue
957
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.900
share, no hidden skims. Pricing is simple, one
958
00:35:46.900 --> 00:35:49.920
flat monthly fee. covers power, parts, labor, and
959
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.460
repairs. They also guarantee uptime. The machine goes
960
00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:56.360
down, their hash rate redirect system routes hash
961
00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:58.580
power from their fleet, so earnings don't just
962
00:35:58.580 --> 00:36:01.500
stop. And every machine is insured at full
963
00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:04.580
replacement value. Everything is hosted in the U
964
00:36:04.580 --> 00:36:07.620
.S., powered by hydro, and mining equipment may
965
00:36:07.620 --> 00:36:11.840
qualify for 100 % your one bonus depreciation.
966
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:16.140
Learn more at abundant mines .com slash sessions.
967
00:36:16.140 --> 00:36:20.580
Okay, boys. Pretty big story, obviously, today, because
968
00:36:20.580 --> 00:36:25.480
of the anthropic IPO, which I suppose it's
969
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:26.880
going to happen in November, by the sounds
970
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.520
of it. They had to release some financial
971
00:36:28.520 --> 00:36:31.420
data. None of it particularly pretty. They lost
972
00:36:31.420 --> 00:36:33.680
$42 billion. I think they're at about an
973
00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:36.960
$80 billion run rate. And it seems to
974
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:38.940
me like they're relying on a number of
975
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:40.880
things going their way, including, as we've mentioned
976
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.620
here before, the cost of tokens not trending
977
00:36:43.620 --> 00:36:45.860
to zero, even though I think probably the
978
00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:48.460
three of us think that it will. Of
979
00:36:48.460 --> 00:36:50.460
course, also in the S1, just in case
980
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.680
you really weren't sure about whether or not
981
00:36:52.680 --> 00:36:54.380
you wanted to buy some shares. Anthropic warrants
982
00:36:54.380 --> 00:36:57.760
of catastrophic existential risks to humanity. How many
983
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.480
can I put you down for, sir? Sort
984
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.060
of adjacent story here. Interesting. Microsoft offering buyouts
985
00:37:05.060 --> 00:37:09.700
to 60 ,000 employees. That represents the number
986
00:37:09.700 --> 00:37:11.640
I saw about one -third of their global
987
00:37:11.640 --> 00:37:15.800
workforce. Enormous number from an enormous company. And
988
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:19.000
this chart from Brody Ford, definitely gave me
989
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:20.920
some pause. I mean, we've known for a
990
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:23.220
long time that people were getting more efficient,
991
00:37:23.220 --> 00:37:24.860
or at least in theory becoming more efficient
992
00:37:24.860 --> 00:37:27.200
because of the tech available to them. But
993
00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:29.940
this is a pretty significant divergence between employee
994
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:32.340
growth and revenue growth. So your head count
995
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.620
there, obviously going down now, you know, sort
996
00:37:34.620 --> 00:37:36.940
of leveling out in 22 and now going
997
00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:40.560
down again. Meanwhile, revenue through the roof, there's
998
00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:43.560
obviously contributing factors here. Like, for example, returning
999
00:37:43.560 --> 00:37:45.400
to levels that are closer to COVID, maybe
1000
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:48.440
even closer to like 2008. before the money
1001
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:50.200
printer really fired up for GFC and all
1002
00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:52.560
these things started to affect the way companies
1003
00:37:52.560 --> 00:37:55.940
think about their economics. By the same token,
1004
00:37:55.940 --> 00:37:59.140
we have everyone's favorite retard Vitalik talking about
1005
00:37:59.140 --> 00:38:02.500
how he wants the, even the open source,
1006
00:38:02.500 --> 00:38:05.000
open weight models to leave out top end
1007
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.360
offensive cyber capabilities from their training data. Going
1008
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:10.480
as far as to say discriminating against use
1009
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:12.800
cases is much less bad than discriminating against
1010
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.220
users as though there's, you know, only an
1011
00:38:15.220 --> 00:38:16.920
option to do one or the other and
1012
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:18.360
not just leave people alone. to do the
1013
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:20.080
work that they think is important. I got
1014
00:38:20.080 --> 00:38:21.140
a big problem with a lot of this
1015
00:38:21.140 --> 00:38:23.540
stuff, but, you know, I'll pass to you,
1016
00:38:23.540 --> 00:38:25.660
First Walker, since, you know, you've been so
1017
00:38:25.660 --> 00:38:27.520
into the AI stuff lately making a bunch
1018
00:38:27.520 --> 00:38:29.240
of good stuff for you and Carla and,
1019
00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:31.500
you know, I think really experimenting in a
1020
00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:33.220
way that, I got to be honest, it's
1021
00:38:33.220 --> 00:38:35.060
impressed me. And I think it's impressed most
1022
00:38:35.060 --> 00:38:37.380
of the Bitcoin, you know, the BitCast podcast
1023
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:40.640
back chat there. You know, I want to
1024
00:38:40.640 --> 00:38:42.420
get your thoughts on, of course, like the
1025
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:45.200
Anthropic IPO, what does their future look like?
1026
00:38:45.200 --> 00:38:46.800
But also, talk to me a little bit
1027
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.320
about, um, whether or not we're getting, we're
1028
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.620
going to wind up in this future where
1029
00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:54.300
even the open weight, open source models are,
1030
00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:58.500
you know, encumbered by ethics and other stuff
1031
00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:01.540
that's, you know, at the very least subjective,
1032
00:39:01.540 --> 00:39:04.300
if not just outright, you know, wrong in
1033
00:39:04.300 --> 00:39:07.320
my view. Go ahead. I think it's important
1034
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.100
to remember that as it relates to the
1035
00:39:09.100 --> 00:39:11.420
conversation, like the conversation about open weight, open
1036
00:39:11.420 --> 00:39:16.000
source, that genie is out of the bottle,
1037
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.540
you know, or to quote Pineapple Express. monkeys
1038
00:39:18.540 --> 00:39:20.260
out of the bottle, like, you don't go
1039
00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:25.640
back in, you know. Point being, like, this
1040
00:39:25.640 --> 00:39:28.500
is the nature of open source, and information
1041
00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:30.120
wants to be free, and once it's out
1042
00:39:30.120 --> 00:39:33.120
there, you can't, you're not going to get
1043
00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:35.560
rid of it, right? There's too many places
1044
00:39:35.560 --> 00:39:37.160
that that's already been saved. There's too many
1045
00:39:37.160 --> 00:39:41.040
places that's been saved locally. So like, okay,
1046
00:39:41.040 --> 00:39:42.720
I mean, I think Vitalik's point is, I
1047
00:39:42.720 --> 00:39:45.700
can understand his sentiment. Like, yeah, come on,
1048
00:39:45.700 --> 00:39:48.380
guys, let's not make these A. I'm super
1049
00:39:48.380 --> 00:39:51.220
good at hacking the shit out of people.
1050
00:39:51.220 --> 00:39:53.020
Sure, that's nice. Man, let's not make these
1051
00:39:53.020 --> 00:39:55.900
guns super good at blowing holes in people.
1052
00:39:55.900 --> 00:39:58.940
Like, this is, this is a, this is
1053
00:39:58.940 --> 00:40:01.220
a fucking weapon that can be used offensively
1054
00:40:01.220 --> 00:40:03.900
or defensively. If you cripple it in one
1055
00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:06.000
sense, it's going to necessarily make it worse
1056
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.440
at the other. Because you're not actually taking
1057
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:10.940
away its capability. You're just somehow like, you're
1058
00:40:10.940 --> 00:40:12.220
putting a little, you know, like, okay, you
1059
00:40:12.220 --> 00:40:14.600
can only shoot this gun, you know, at
1060
00:40:14.600 --> 00:40:16.780
somebody who's also got a gun, right? It's
1061
00:40:16.780 --> 00:40:17.840
like, no, no, no, no. And I really,
1062
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:18.460
really, and I really, this might be a
1063
00:40:18.460 --> 00:40:20.600
bit of a tenuous analogy here, but I
1064
00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:23.320
personally think, like, the way to do this
1065
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:25.860
is to actually open this shit the fuck
1066
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:28.040
up. And, you know, it's funny, too, you
1067
00:40:28.040 --> 00:40:29.680
look at the anthropic stuff, and it's like,
1068
00:40:29.680 --> 00:40:32.360
boy, remember when, like, I don't know, I'm
1069
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:34.300
old enough to remember a few weeks ago
1070
00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:38.500
when Dario and Sam Altman and everybody came
1071
00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:40.600
together all at once around that one fucking
1072
00:40:40.600 --> 00:40:44.500
guy who's obviously a fucking spook or something.
1073
00:40:44.500 --> 00:40:46.080
Who are you talking about? A little fucking,
1074
00:40:46.080 --> 00:40:50.260
fucking, uh, fucking, uh, Autisticianne. Harry Potter guy.
1075
00:40:50.260 --> 00:40:51.960
What did they call him? Like, Timu Harry
1076
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.180
Potter. That's what we'll call him. And all
1077
00:40:55.180 --> 00:40:56.620
of a sudden, we gotta base the front.
1078
00:40:56.620 --> 00:40:57.620
Yeah, I guess we just, we gotta paste
1079
00:40:57.620 --> 00:40:58.980
the front. And then they're all like, by
1080
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.620
the way, like next week it was like,
1081
00:41:00.620 --> 00:41:02.740
here's fucking three more models that will rip
1082
00:41:02.740 --> 00:41:05.020
your face off. And you're like, wait, I
1083
00:41:05.020 --> 00:41:07.160
thought, weren't we just pacing the front? Yeah,
1084
00:41:07.160 --> 00:41:10.300
well, you know, we should, but you know,
1085
00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:13.140
we gotta, I don't know, man. Like it's,
1086
00:41:13.140 --> 00:41:16.120
it's all this like massive fucking k -fabe,
1087
00:41:16.120 --> 00:41:18.120
right? Where they're all pretending like, yeah, of
1088
00:41:18.120 --> 00:41:19.960
course we gotta pace the front all of
1089
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.900
the pacing the front conversation is is a
1090
00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:25.500
proxy for regulate us harder so we have
1091
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:28.400
a bigger moat all this like vitalic being
1092
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:29.540
like you know we should not have these
1093
00:41:29.540 --> 00:41:32.120
offensive capabilities and these open weight models what
1094
00:41:32.120 --> 00:41:34.240
he's saying is we shouldn't have open weight
1095
00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:37.260
models like that's what he's actually saying and
1096
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:38.980
vital i'm not i'm not i don't want
1097
00:41:38.980 --> 00:41:42.720
to assign uh assign any malintent or assume
1098
00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:44.720
that you can you can he's proven it
1099
00:41:44.720 --> 00:41:47.680
before like he's he's he's a guy he's
1100
00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:47.860
a guy he's a guy he's a guy
1101
00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:51.960
guy who now is in, defend my castle
1102
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.460
and my riches mode. He hasn't done anything
1103
00:41:54.460 --> 00:41:57.400
of value, produced anything new in 10 fucking
1104
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.040
years. He knows it. We all know it.
1105
00:42:00.040 --> 00:42:01.280
And now he's trying to do this on
1106
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:02.940
the AI side. It's not a mystery. It's
1107
00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:04.840
not a mystery at all. Yeah, this to
1108
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:06.880
me is just really obvious, K Fabe, across
1109
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:09.880
the board, where again, and we've been saying
1110
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:11.880
this, like, all of us on our various
1111
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:14.700
shows for like, I don't know, a couple
1112
00:42:14.700 --> 00:42:17.040
of years now, like, which is a while,
1113
00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:18.720
like a couple of of years of saying
1114
00:42:18.720 --> 00:42:21.500
since Altman and Dario a couple years ago
1115
00:42:21.500 --> 00:42:22.960
started going in front of Congress and being
1116
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.980
like, we want you to regulate us, please.
1117
00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:28.400
Like, we're just, you know, please and please,
1118
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.160
please, have some more regulation, please, you know,
1119
00:42:31.160 --> 00:42:32.720
like they want to do that because they
1120
00:42:32.720 --> 00:42:34.920
have to have a regulatory moat because their
1121
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.240
business models are fundamentally unsustainable in the marginal
1122
00:42:37.240 --> 00:42:40.320
cost of production for these tokens drops down
1123
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.080
to the marginal cost of production. It's going
1124
00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:44.960
to go down to basically the input energy
1125
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.160
costs because the data side of this, Like,
1126
00:42:48.160 --> 00:42:50.140
I think they even said in the, uh,
1127
00:42:50.140 --> 00:42:52.140
I skim, I skim the filing. I didn't
1128
00:42:52.140 --> 00:42:53.420
like go, go deep into it. And then
1129
00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:54.600
I had the clanker do some stuff that
1130
00:42:54.600 --> 00:42:56.880
I'm going to probably cover with Eric Kason
1131
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:58.780
on our new weekly show on Fridays, not
1132
00:42:58.780 --> 00:43:00.400
at the same time at this show earlier,
1133
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:02.700
the reckoning. Uh, where we reckon with these
1134
00:43:02.700 --> 00:43:04.360
things and we'll have our AI clanker co
1135
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:05.780
-host joining us, which is going to be
1136
00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:09.360
fucking trippy. But, uh, point being, like, they
1137
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:13.000
said basically the, the primary value driver for
1138
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:17.920
these frontier models is their proprietary weights. and
1139
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:21.840
training data. Like, that's it. That's what they
1140
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:26.800
have. That's the whole game. So people like
1141
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.320
Fatalic coming out against basically, I mean, you
1142
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:30.960
know, he's, he's not coming out against open
1143
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.440
source, right? Like, on the surface, but that's
1144
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:35.060
what he's doing. He's fancy. Open source, open
1145
00:43:35.060 --> 00:43:37.880
weight. That's what he's coming out against. Dario,
1146
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:39.920
like, all of these guys, all these big,
1147
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.960
you know, these big little boys coming out
1148
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.300
against open source, open weight in one way
1149
00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:48.060
or another. K -fabing in some. way or
1150
00:43:48.060 --> 00:43:51.940
another. They just want you to not have
1151
00:43:51.940 --> 00:43:53.580
access to this stuff because they know it
1152
00:43:53.580 --> 00:43:57.080
fucks their moat. Like, it takes, bends their
1153
00:43:57.080 --> 00:43:58.360
moat over a barrel and shows it the
1154
00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:02.500
50 states. I think that it's a better
1155
00:44:02.500 --> 00:44:05.700
option to say, rip the fucking breaks off
1156
00:44:05.700 --> 00:44:08.140
of all these things. This is going to
1157
00:44:08.140 --> 00:44:10.600
get really bad. You may as well give
1158
00:44:10.600 --> 00:44:12.800
the people who are trying to defend against
1159
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:15.980
this stuff the same tools as the attackers.
1160
00:44:15.980 --> 00:44:17.860
Because right now there's an asymmetry to the
1161
00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:20.440
this. And that is part of the problem,
1162
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.760
I think. But I'll end the mini rant
1163
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:24.580
there. Can we just break for a second
1164
00:44:24.580 --> 00:44:27.080
here? Ben is in the back state. I
1165
00:44:27.080 --> 00:44:28.520
don't know what he's doing. It looks like
1166
00:44:28.520 --> 00:44:29.760
he's on a bed with another man, to
1167
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:30.680
be honest with you. I guess we're going
1168
00:44:30.680 --> 00:44:32.360
to find out here. What what fuck is
1169
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:34.380
going on? Oh, God. He has two other
1170
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:38.460
men. Jesus Christ. Oh. You're on mute. You're
1171
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:39.160
on mute. You're on mute. I couldn't have
1172
00:44:39.160 --> 00:44:41.020
been there before. Have another beer. Have another
1173
00:44:41.020 --> 00:44:44.740
vodka. Are you still on mute? You're still
1174
00:44:44.740 --> 00:44:47.560
on mute. You better be drinking Mugronies. Jesus
1175
00:44:47.560 --> 00:44:51.800
Christ. Oh, we're good. We're good. We're just
1176
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:56.380
here at big Bitcoin headquarters, um, uh, propaganda
1177
00:44:56.380 --> 00:44:59.220
officer, Mr. Chris here. Uh, we also have
1178
00:44:59.220 --> 00:45:03.680
made X in stopless for some reason. Oh,
1179
00:45:03.680 --> 00:45:07.140
man. He just wanted to talk and everything
1180
00:45:07.140 --> 00:45:09.860
is going according to plan. Tether is fully
1181
00:45:09.860 --> 00:45:13.220
funding everything. Nathan is also, uh, saying a
1182
00:45:13.220 --> 00:45:15.840
quick hello. Diversity officer. uh, there's a huge
1183
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.380
diversity office. Look at this party. Look at
1184
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:23.540
this party. Rocko. What, dude? I have a
1185
00:45:23.540 --> 00:45:25.980
lot. We've got a whole cast characters. Hi,
1186
00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:44.700
Dean, officer. Hello, friends. Hi, friends. All scada.!
1187
00:45:44.700 --> 00:45:47.400
Man, I saw. It's the problem with AI
1188
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:48.940
is like, assholes like that can just get
1189
00:45:48.940 --> 00:45:50.980
access to the admin keys. You know what
1190
00:45:50.980 --> 00:45:52.920
I mean? It's like, what the fuck, dude?
1191
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:55.220
We're in the middle of a pot here,
1192
00:45:55.220 --> 00:45:58.440
dude. Gee, he's trying to work here. Why?
1193
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:00.360
The real question is, that looks to me
1194
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.280
to be some kind of restaurant. There's guys
1195
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.940
wearing blazers and Maidex has no shirt on.
1196
00:46:04.940 --> 00:46:07.140
He's topless. He's often naked. He's often naked.
1197
00:46:07.140 --> 00:46:08.840
I see that. I've seen his dick like
1198
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:10.560
a handful of times. He's an artist. What
1199
00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:11.300
are you going to do? He's a bogey
1200
00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:13.900
shirt. I guess. I guess. I don't know.
1201
00:46:13.900 --> 00:46:18.160
Okay, well, what were we talking about? Tell
1202
00:46:18.160 --> 00:46:21.360
me about this. I was going to button
1203
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:25.400
up Walker's point here, which was Walker was
1204
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:30.060
talking about Redcapped. There we go. Yeah, yeah.
1205
00:46:30.060 --> 00:46:35.000
So politically, this is basically EAs versus EACs.
1206
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:35.840
So for anybody who doesn't know in the
1207
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.520
audience, EA is effective altruist. EAC is a
1208
00:46:39.520 --> 00:46:42.560
reactionary movement that popped up to counter effective
1209
00:46:42.560 --> 00:46:45.180
altruist that is effective altruist, effective accelerationists or
1210
00:46:45.180 --> 00:46:49.400
effective accelerationism. And effective altruist, that's what Sam
1211
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:52.540
Bankman Freed was at FTX. And it started
1212
00:46:52.540 --> 00:46:56.120
as an ideology that was about, you know,
1213
00:46:56.120 --> 00:47:00.500
spreadsheet charity, like basically taking your dollars and
1214
00:47:00.500 --> 00:47:03.000
doing the most asymmetric good, like taking American
1215
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:04.840
dollars and spending them in Africa so that
1216
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:06.560
you could do more good by spending them
1217
00:47:06.560 --> 00:47:08.240
over there, et cetera, et cetera. And it's
1218
00:47:08.240 --> 00:47:13.420
morphed into this very, like, calm, safetyist, sort
1219
00:47:13.420 --> 00:47:15.640
of like, it's, you can see it in
1220
00:47:15.640 --> 00:47:17.860
the weird marketing of Anthropic. The weird marketing
1221
00:47:17.860 --> 00:47:20.820
is, we're going to kill everyone. This thing
1222
00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:22.520
is a runaway freight train. We're going to
1223
00:47:22.520 --> 00:47:24.180
take all your jobs. We're going to fuck
1224
00:47:24.180 --> 00:47:26.780
all your wives. Nobody can stop it. And,
1225
00:47:26.780 --> 00:47:29.340
yeah, buy our stock. And it's like, what?
1226
00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:33.220
What the fuck? Yeah. And then you got
1227
00:47:33.220 --> 00:47:35.800
the effective acceleration as guys who are gearing
1228
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.300
up against them politically. And some of those
1229
00:47:38.300 --> 00:47:40.180
guys are like Mark Zuckerberg is an effective
1230
00:47:40.180 --> 00:47:43.520
accelerations guy like Peter Thiel, Palantir guys, are
1231
00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:46.920
all effective accelerationsists. And they're basically fighting this
1232
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.100
fight, you know, sort of backstabbing each other,
1233
00:47:50.100 --> 00:47:53.000
you know, in Washington about who has carte
1234
00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.740
blanche here. Is it the open source open
1235
00:47:55.740 --> 00:47:58.180
-weight guys? Or is it the closed -source
1236
00:47:58.180 --> 00:48:00.220
guys. And the closed -source guys represent EA.
1237
00:48:00.220 --> 00:48:03.580
And the open -source guys represent EAC. So
1238
00:48:03.580 --> 00:48:05.360
those are the two ideologies that are fighting
1239
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:07.280
this out. And they're going to fight it
1240
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:10.160
out. heavy over the next few years going
1241
00:48:10.160 --> 00:48:12.100
into the 28 election. And the 28 election
1242
00:48:12.100 --> 00:48:14.520
will actually be primarily probably a fight between
1243
00:48:14.520 --> 00:48:16.760
the EAs and the EACs, despite all the
1244
00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:19.320
other stuff that's going to be going on.
1245
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:21.820
Yeah, I agree that. I think, do you
1246
00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:25.880
remember Hoddle if Vitalik was a funder of
1247
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:30.420
the, I think he was an E, definitely
1248
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:32.120
was a EA. He's a, he's a, he's
1249
00:48:32.120 --> 00:48:33.200
a EA through and through. Yeah, but what
1250
00:48:33.200 --> 00:48:34.680
did he fund them? I think he did
1251
00:48:34.680 --> 00:48:37.360
fund the altruist movement, right? Maybe through SBF.
1252
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:37.520
I think it was a, he definitely was
1253
00:48:37.520 --> 00:48:38.500
a, he definitely was a EA. through SBF,
1254
00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:40.280
if I remember correctly. I'm sure he did.
1255
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:42.220
Yeah, he's everything he's ever written is, he's
1256
00:48:42.220 --> 00:48:44.580
got EA written all over it. Where I
1257
00:48:44.580 --> 00:48:45.720
was like, you know, Walker is like a
1258
00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:48.500
quintessential, uh, accelerationist where he's just like, you
1259
00:48:48.500 --> 00:48:50.420
know, you know, we gotta go into front
1260
00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:53.140
here, bro. And I side with Walker. I'm
1261
00:48:53.140 --> 00:48:55.020
EAC too, you know, because there is no
1262
00:48:55.020 --> 00:48:58.160
to be a Ludditer is, it's just like,
1263
00:48:58.160 --> 00:49:00.820
you can't do it. It's impossible. No, no.
1264
00:49:00.820 --> 00:49:03.300
Why are they all of the effective altruists
1265
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:06.400
like low tea? They're just low tea. Say
1266
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:10.280
it. Why are they all also in these
1267
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:15.440
weird polyamorous sex cults with each other? I
1268
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:16.980
talked about this on another pod, but there's
1269
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:19.100
this thing called SlutCon, which was organized by
1270
00:49:19.100 --> 00:49:22.520
the effective altruist. And, uh, yeah, yeah, it's
1271
00:49:22.520 --> 00:49:25.220
like the in -cell crowd. Oh, we lose
1272
00:49:25.220 --> 00:49:27.340
Hoddle? Where do you go? Yeah, you had
1273
00:49:27.340 --> 00:49:29.160
to submit a doctor. He's back. He's back.
1274
00:49:29.160 --> 00:49:32.140
Sluts. Am I?! Can you please, can you
1275
00:49:32.140 --> 00:49:34.820
please continue about? Am I five? No, no.
1276
00:49:34.820 --> 00:49:37.060
So there was this thing called slutcon. and
1277
00:49:37.060 --> 00:49:39.720
the effective altruist had to submit a form,
1278
00:49:39.720 --> 00:49:41.400
you know, giving like a whole dossier on
1279
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.360
their sex lives and who they are and
1280
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.100
what they're into and all the, you know,
1281
00:49:45.100 --> 00:49:46.720
whatever, in order to be invited into this
1282
00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:48.460
thing. And then there were sex worker girls
1283
00:49:48.460 --> 00:49:50.500
and like the whole thing. So again, like
1284
00:49:50.500 --> 00:49:52.600
anywhere you find these EA types, you find
1285
00:49:52.600 --> 00:49:55.380
this sort of weird cuddle puddle of like
1286
00:49:55.380 --> 00:49:57.720
glasses, fog nerds who are doing weird stuff
1287
00:49:57.720 --> 00:49:59.900
to each other's butts. And not that there's
1288
00:49:59.900 --> 00:50:01.500
anything wrong with it, it just makes me
1289
00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:04.500
question what's going on over there, you know?
1290
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:06.320
I'm not here to judge. I like, invite
1291
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:07.780
me to the weird sex party let's do
1292
00:50:07.780 --> 00:50:11.660
it but i'm i'm curious i'm dubious you
1293
00:50:11.660 --> 00:50:14.460
know some people might know some people might
1294
00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:18.260
don't invite me to the party at unreal
1295
00:50:18.260 --> 00:50:20.620
we don't know we don't know no no
1296
00:50:20.620 --> 00:50:22.920
no same vibe though at davos like a
1297
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:25.180
bunch of fucking like bunch of fucking honestly
1298
00:50:25.180 --> 00:50:27.500
like it's the older crowd it's like the
1299
00:50:27.500 --> 00:50:30.240
boomer version and then the iax are like
1300
00:50:30.240 --> 00:50:33.500
the millennial zoomer x crowd yeah it's like
1301
00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:36.040
it's all very malthusian coded under the guys
1302
00:50:36.040 --> 00:50:37.400
of like we just want to help everybody
1303
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.440
but maybe the only way to save humanity
1304
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.600
is to to kill most of humanity well
1305
00:50:43.600 --> 00:50:45.680
anyway back to the weird butt stuff like
1306
00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:47.960
by the way you know the wef i
1307
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:49.640
i talked to a person who worked at
1308
00:50:49.640 --> 00:50:52.040
the web and they told me that all
1309
00:50:52.040 --> 00:50:53.720
of that shit that happens on stage is
1310
00:50:53.720 --> 00:50:56.040
just klaus schwab being a weirdo and it's
1311
00:50:56.040 --> 00:50:59.980
just the pretext for closed door hallway off
1312
00:50:59.980 --> 00:51:02.920
the books hallway meetings between people like the
1313
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:05.060
crown prince of saudi arabia and you know
1314
00:51:05.060 --> 00:51:07.380
whatever jerry kushab or something like that. Like,
1315
00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:08.480
so it's just, it's a place where you
1316
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:10.980
can congregate a bunch of rich people and
1317
00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:13.080
then have these off the book meetings where
1318
00:51:13.080 --> 00:51:14.480
nobody has to say they went to the
1319
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:18.680
other person's embassy or office or country, right?
1320
00:51:18.680 --> 00:51:19.900
And so that's the sort of the thing
1321
00:51:19.900 --> 00:51:22.400
going on there. Yeah, it's a big one.
1322
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:24.060
Except we go there and it's just Maidx
1323
00:51:24.060 --> 00:51:26.940
shirtless. Yeah, it's everyone's circuit us. That's my
1324
00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:28.660
kind of party. It's my kind of party
1325
00:51:28.660 --> 00:51:30.840
right there. It is the best. Hey, Maynix
1326
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:31.880
is very nice. I don't want to, I
1327
00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:33.060
don't want to disparage it. But it is
1328
00:51:33.060 --> 00:51:36.540
always. Yeah, he's always naked. Bitcoin artists. Yeah,
1329
00:51:36.540 --> 00:51:38.200
he is. He is. Okay, so we should
1330
00:51:38.200 --> 00:51:39.900
talk about one more thing on the AI
1331
00:51:39.900 --> 00:51:42.600
front here because it affects Bitcoin. I don't
1332
00:51:42.600 --> 00:51:43.840
know if I'm on the right thing here.
1333
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:45.900
Obviously, I'm not. Here it is. Bitcoin Core
1334
00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:48.660
making changes to its security policy for the
1335
00:51:48.660 --> 00:51:50.980
first time in a long time to try
1336
00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:54.060
and get vulnerabilities that they find via AI
1337
00:51:54.060 --> 00:51:55.620
bumped up to the top of the queue
1338
00:51:55.620 --> 00:51:58.620
for attention. I don't know how I feel
1339
00:51:58.620 --> 00:52:01.580
about this. I got to be honest. I
1340
00:52:01.580 --> 00:52:05.760
love the idea of AI reviewing the core
1341
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.400
code. for problems. And don't forget, I think
1342
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.460
the one thing people don't understand about the
1343
00:52:10.460 --> 00:52:12.160
way that AI works for some of these,
1344
00:52:12.160 --> 00:52:16.120
for some of these vulnerabilities is that what
1345
00:52:16.120 --> 00:52:18.280
you're actually seeing here in terms of, like,
1346
00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:20.420
how to turn a vulnerability into an exploit.
1347
00:52:20.420 --> 00:52:22.700
These are different things, right? So, vulnerability is
1348
00:52:22.700 --> 00:52:26.660
a problem that may lead to someone, someone's
1349
00:52:26.660 --> 00:52:29.680
device being accessed, you know, let's say, without
1350
00:52:29.680 --> 00:52:32.360
permission. But what you're seeing in most of
1351
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:36.540
these modern AI type fines is a chain
1352
00:52:36.540 --> 00:52:39.100
of vulnerabilities that need to be accessed together
1353
00:52:39.100 --> 00:52:42.280
in a certain order. That's where the number
1354
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:44.520
of permutations that AI can sort of carry
1355
00:52:44.520 --> 00:52:46.720
out to find these vulnerabilities makes it a
1356
00:52:46.720 --> 00:52:49.540
valuable tool for both cyber offensive and cyber
1357
00:52:49.540 --> 00:52:52.760
cyber defensive capabilities. So I don't think core
1358
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.440
is doing necessarily a bad thing here. But
1359
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:57.940
I'm curious, you know, what you guys think
1360
00:52:57.940 --> 00:53:01.840
about changing the core security policy. What seems
1361
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:03.520
to me to be a little bit, I
1362
00:53:03.520 --> 00:53:04.680
don't want to say on a whim, but
1363
00:53:04.680 --> 00:53:07.940
for something that never, changes to be changed
1364
00:53:07.940 --> 00:53:10.800
now after the last few months. Is this,
1365
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:14.040
is this a good thing, a bad thing,
1366
00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:15.600
a neutral thing, Brandon, I'll start with you,
1367
00:53:15.600 --> 00:53:17.000
and then we'll kick it to the boys.
1368
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:18.420
Yeah, I just have a quick thought of
1369
00:53:18.420 --> 00:53:19.960
this, and then I'll send them to the
1370
00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:21.860
boys here. This was obviously my last week.
1371
00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:22.840
I've not been able to dive into a
1372
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:24.440
bunch of this. However, I will say that
1373
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:26.780
I built with my clanker while I was
1374
00:53:26.780 --> 00:53:28.180
like, you know, holding one of the twins
1375
00:53:28.180 --> 00:53:29.360
in one arm, this and that. I'm like
1376
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:31.260
just talking to Claude while they're sleeping, and
1377
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:33.300
I'm just like building my briefings, like all
1378
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:34.760
this different stuff. So now going forward, I
1379
00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:37.180
just automatically, all the briefings, whatever. It's amazing,
1380
00:53:37.180 --> 00:53:39.080
right? It's amazing what you can build with
1381
00:53:39.080 --> 00:53:41.500
the clinkers. But this did come across the
1382
00:53:41.500 --> 00:53:44.460
stack as well. And Joey, to your point,
1383
00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:47.100
my initial gut reaction was, whoa, you know,
1384
00:53:47.100 --> 00:53:48.800
what are we doing here? So again, just
1385
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.860
like the, the bit coiner in you is
1386
00:53:50.860 --> 00:53:52.420
kind of like, whoa, you know, don't trust
1387
00:53:52.420 --> 00:53:54.980
verify. So I'm eager to look into this
1388
00:53:54.980 --> 00:53:57.260
more and see what's happening because my gut
1389
00:53:57.260 --> 00:53:59.280
reaction was the same as yours, Joey. And,
1390
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.140
but I'm very limited knowledge on what's actually
1391
00:54:01.140 --> 00:54:02.880
happening. So I don't want to say anything
1392
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:04.820
too crazy until I'm able to. to go
1393
00:54:04.820 --> 00:54:06.660
in and look at it more Walker what
1394
00:54:06.660 --> 00:54:07.960
about you where do you when you come
1395
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:10.360
down on this? No, no, huddle, go ahead.
1396
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:11.620
Yeah, okay. I was going to say, I
1397
00:54:11.620 --> 00:54:13.300
have a pretty measured reaction here, which is
1398
00:54:13.300 --> 00:54:15.760
like, uh, you know, Bitcoin engineering culture takes
1399
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:19.000
its roots from civil engineering culture. And obviously
1400
00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:20.220
if a bridge has stood for a long
1401
00:54:20.220 --> 00:54:21.400
time, it's not something we want to go
1402
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:24.580
around fucking with, but if somebody, uh, invents
1403
00:54:24.580 --> 00:54:27.220
the, the anti -bridge gun that can shoot
1404
00:54:27.220 --> 00:54:29.080
holes in bridges, then yeah, I mean, like
1405
00:54:29.080 --> 00:54:30.300
we have to kind of change the posture
1406
00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:32.320
a little bit. So I think that it
1407
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:36.640
probably is a necessity. But the feeling that
1408
00:54:36.640 --> 00:54:38.760
both Joey and Brandon are having is correct
1409
00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:41.180
in that it should be watched very carefully,
1410
00:54:41.180 --> 00:54:43.240
very closely, very closely. And we should be,
1411
00:54:43.240 --> 00:54:45.400
you know, still discussing. And we shouldn't just,
1412
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:47.100
like, accept that, like, we have to do
1413
00:54:47.100 --> 00:54:49.460
this right this very second. That said, we
1414
00:54:49.460 --> 00:54:52.180
can't delay as long as we usually like
1415
00:54:52.180 --> 00:54:53.200
to either. So we do have to all
1416
00:54:53.200 --> 00:54:55.060
kind of, like, get with the times and,
1417
00:54:55.060 --> 00:54:56.580
like, come together and, you know, figure this
1418
00:54:56.580 --> 00:55:00.240
out in real time quickly. Really quick, Walker.
1419
00:55:00.240 --> 00:55:02.660
So I go back to politically, right, we
1420
00:55:02.660 --> 00:55:03.880
got a lot of talk of, like, we're
1421
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:05.380
going to stack to stack Supreme Court, we're
1422
00:55:05.380 --> 00:55:07.000
going to change the filibuster and a lot
1423
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:08.600
of these things. Now, again, some of these
1424
00:55:08.600 --> 00:55:10.620
things over time, you can change with amendments,
1425
00:55:10.620 --> 00:55:11.580
and there's got to be a lot of
1426
00:55:11.580 --> 00:55:12.840
the problem. This goes back to when you're
1427
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:15.320
changing something in Bitcoin, you have to have
1428
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:16.580
a lot of support, right? This is why
1429
00:55:16.580 --> 00:55:20.060
the fork failed because there wasn't broadband support
1430
00:55:20.060 --> 00:55:21.100
of like, hey, we've got a ton of
1431
00:55:21.100 --> 00:55:23.420
people. This is like a filibuster. Some of
1432
00:55:23.420 --> 00:55:24.820
these things, you get a lot of people
1433
00:55:24.820 --> 00:55:27.500
in society now that say, hey, you know,
1434
00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:29.620
Congress isn't doing anything. Nothing is going on.
1435
00:55:29.620 --> 00:55:32.000
They're not meant to do anything. They're not
1436
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:33.820
meant to do jack shit, actually. We don't
1437
00:55:33.820 --> 00:55:34.720
want to. And, we don't want to. In
1438
00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:35.940
fact, they were only there for like a
1439
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.320
month or two out of the year. You
1440
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:39.140
went home and provided for your family actually
1441
00:55:39.140 --> 00:55:40.680
did shit with your life. You weren't in
1442
00:55:40.680 --> 00:55:42.160
Congress for 11 months out of the year.
1443
00:55:42.160 --> 00:55:43.320
You were at home 11 months of the
1444
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:45.560
year. So that's the kind of the premise
1445
00:55:45.560 --> 00:55:47.820
into what Hattel's saying too. That's why it's
1446
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:49.880
the timing part of it, where it's like,
1447
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:51.540
it just puts your spiky sense up a
1448
00:55:51.540 --> 00:55:54.020
little bit. But again, it's this measured approach
1449
00:55:54.020 --> 00:55:56.380
where, of course, things change, facts change. So
1450
00:55:56.380 --> 00:55:57.800
then yes, do we need a new amendment
1451
00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:00.500
literally in America or is it with Bitcoin?
1452
00:56:00.500 --> 00:56:02.240
something needs to change and we come together
1453
00:56:02.240 --> 00:56:04.200
and if there's broadband support, it has to
1454
00:56:04.200 --> 00:56:06.640
meet these certain thresholds, in my opinion. And
1455
00:56:06.640 --> 00:56:08.220
that's where, again, we have to have those
1456
00:56:08.220 --> 00:56:09.540
debates. And we did with the fourth, you
1457
00:56:09.540 --> 00:56:10.920
just said, we did for a year or
1458
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:12.440
two, for a couple years, and it didn't
1459
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:14.180
meet it. And then now this is another
1460
00:56:14.180 --> 00:56:15.700
thing that will come up. So anyway, I
1461
00:56:15.700 --> 00:56:17.180
just, I want to liken it to that
1462
00:56:17.180 --> 00:56:19.520
because I think it's important people politically think,
1463
00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:20.980
oh, we need to change it fast. No,
1464
00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:22.600
you don't want emotions up because an intelligence
1465
00:56:22.600 --> 00:56:24.880
goes down. These things should take a while.
1466
00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:26.180
You show a lot of people seeing it
1467
00:56:26.180 --> 00:56:27.500
over time and then it gets to a
1468
00:56:27.500 --> 00:56:29.740
fever pitch, then the support's there to actually
1469
00:56:29.740 --> 00:56:32.240
change something if we need to. Just to
1470
00:56:32.240 --> 00:56:33.920
tag that real quick, poor Walker goes like
1471
00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:35.340
that we do have to realize though that
1472
00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:37.660
we are on the front lines of every
1473
00:56:37.660 --> 00:56:40.040
attack vector so we're going to get hit
1474
00:56:40.040 --> 00:56:41.160
first and we're going to get hit with
1475
00:56:41.160 --> 00:56:43.460
the most powerful shit meaning we're going to
1476
00:56:43.460 --> 00:56:45.800
get hit first by quantum compute if it
1477
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:48.140
happens and we're going to get hit first
1478
00:56:48.140 --> 00:56:50.420
by flagship a i's so we do have
1479
00:56:50.420 --> 00:56:53.200
to be um you know just very nimble
1480
00:56:53.200 --> 00:56:55.540
i think nimble over the next few years
1481
00:56:55.540 --> 00:56:59.560
probably yeah okay a couple of uh points
1482
00:56:59.560 --> 00:57:00.680
in this because i hear what you guys
1483
00:57:00.680 --> 00:57:01.800
are saying here. I think a couple things
1484
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:04.160
that are important to keep in mind here.
1485
00:57:04.160 --> 00:57:07.960
One, like, I think this whole, uh, the
1486
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:10.060
whole Knott's core debate really sort of like
1487
00:57:10.060 --> 00:57:12.540
broke some people's brains in terms of what
1488
00:57:12.540 --> 00:57:14.200
Core was doing. It's like, why is Core
1489
00:57:14.200 --> 00:57:16.980
trying to change things? First of all, differentiate
1490
00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:21.240
between changing relay policy and changing consensus, which
1491
00:57:21.240 --> 00:57:22.740
Core did not try to do, but then
1492
00:57:22.740 --> 00:57:24.360
the Knott's people did try to do. And
1493
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:26.060
that's why they forked off because they changed
1494
00:57:26.060 --> 00:57:28.860
consensus. That's why they're now running on SIA
1495
00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:33.380
coin miners. And I don't are doing, God
1496
00:57:33.380 --> 00:57:36.120
only knows what out there, eating cats or
1497
00:57:36.120 --> 00:57:38.600
something. I don't know. It doesn't matter. They
1498
00:57:38.600 --> 00:57:42.480
forked themselves into irrelevance as people are wanted
1499
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:44.520
to do. So that is an important thing
1500
00:57:44.520 --> 00:57:48.880
to point out. I am all for not
1501
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:52.720
making changes to Bitcoin's consensus in any sort
1502
00:57:52.720 --> 00:57:54.340
of a hurry. I think what we're talking
1503
00:57:54.340 --> 00:57:57.380
about here is patching security vulnerabilities that do
1504
00:57:57.380 --> 00:57:59.280
not result in any sort of soft or
1505
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:02.780
hard fork because these are not consensus issues.
1506
00:58:02.780 --> 00:58:04.680
This is like general maintenance. And I think
1507
00:58:04.680 --> 00:58:05.960
a lot of people, it's easy to get
1508
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:08.260
that confused. It's like, whoa, whoa, we don't
1509
00:58:08.260 --> 00:58:10.020
need core devs to do this. This isn't
1510
00:58:10.020 --> 00:58:11.160
coming at you, Brandon. This is just like
1511
00:58:11.160 --> 00:58:13.320
a general thing because this was my mentality
1512
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.360
for a while as well. Yeah. Yeah. So
1513
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:19.540
what they're talking about is elevating, elevating security
1514
00:58:19.540 --> 00:58:23.140
risks discovered by AI to the forefront of
1515
00:58:23.140 --> 00:58:25.980
their, hey, patch this list. And like from
1516
00:58:25.980 --> 00:58:30.820
personal experience, fiat world stuff, like, I use.
1517
00:58:30.820 --> 00:58:33.540
I use, AI to reverse engineer some shit
1518
00:58:33.540 --> 00:58:36.640
and found some critical security vulnerabilities and bump
1519
00:58:36.640 --> 00:58:37.980
that right up to the top of the
1520
00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:39.400
list of shit the dev team needed to
1521
00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:42.060
fix right now, even though they had a
1522
00:58:42.060 --> 00:58:43.800
whole list of other things that were. Speeding
1523
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:46.180
things up the list of things to do
1524
00:58:46.180 --> 00:58:49.500
and we, that makes it. Because if you
1525
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:51.240
can find it with, if you can find
1526
00:58:51.240 --> 00:58:54.260
the issue, the security vulnerability with AI, so
1527
00:58:54.260 --> 00:58:58.080
can everyone else. That's the thing. Some obscure
1528
00:58:58.080 --> 00:58:59.460
thing that's like, hey, this might be a
1529
00:58:59.460 --> 00:59:01.860
security issue in like five years. No, it
1530
00:59:01.860 --> 00:59:05.900
doesn't matter. Somebody can use this fucking bonehead
1531
00:59:05.900 --> 00:59:08.520
like Walker, can use this prompt and find
1532
00:59:08.520 --> 00:59:11.200
a vulnerability in core. Yeah, that should be
1533
00:59:11.200 --> 00:59:13.220
right at the top of the list. Like,
1534
00:59:13.220 --> 00:59:14.680
that should absolutely be at the top of
1535
00:59:14.680 --> 00:59:17.380
the list. Because again, if you can find
1536
00:59:17.380 --> 00:59:20.000
it with AI, so can someone else. And
1537
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:20.740
if you can, I mean, if you can
1538
00:59:20.740 --> 00:59:22.680
find it with like a frontier model, like,
1539
00:59:22.680 --> 00:59:24.400
you know, you get downgraded to like Opus
1540
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:26.860
4 .8 from Fable or Opus 5 .5
1541
00:59:26.860 --> 00:59:30.260
when you're trying to do some redheading stuff.
1542
00:59:30.260 --> 00:59:33.140
Even open, yeah, no, I got you, fam.
1543
00:59:33.140 --> 00:59:35.100
Like, I'm fucking, I'll hack that shit to
1544
00:59:35.100 --> 00:59:36.740
bits. Like, I got you. I'm a little
1545
00:59:36.740 --> 00:59:38.420
dumber than my big brother, but like, I'm
1546
00:59:38.420 --> 00:59:39.600
still smarter than you, but like, I'm still
1547
00:59:39.600 --> 00:59:42.060
smarter than you, meatbag. So, like, that, I
1548
00:59:42.060 --> 00:59:43.480
think this is a good thing. I think
1549
00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:45.540
this is a prudent thing to do. Something
1550
00:59:45.540 --> 00:59:47.260
that Hoddle was pointing out was that the
1551
00:59:47.260 --> 00:59:50.180
landscape is changing so fast. We have to
1552
00:59:50.180 --> 00:59:51.900
adapt with it. And again, I would say
1553
00:59:51.900 --> 00:59:54.540
the heuristic is, if you can find it
1554
00:59:54.540 --> 00:59:57.880
with AI, so can someone else. So necessarily
1555
00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:02.520
any AI does, discovered security vulnerability should be
1556
01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:04.140
put at the top of the list. I
1557
01:00:04.140 --> 01:00:06.740
think that's just prudent. Maybe I'm missing something,
1558
01:00:06.740 --> 01:00:09.480
but that's just my opinion. I think that's
1559
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:13.000
fair. Like, you know, this is kind of
1560
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:16.000
like the Promethean fire moment for us. Like,
1561
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.260
these tools are there, okay? Just the same
1562
01:00:18.260 --> 01:00:20.560
way that all these Luddites don't like AI,
1563
01:00:20.560 --> 01:00:22.200
they think it's not good for business. It's
1564
01:00:22.200 --> 01:00:23.520
not good for art. It's not good for
1565
01:00:23.520 --> 01:00:25.360
expression. It's not good for whatever. Like, the
1566
01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:26.920
fact that matter is it's there. So it's
1567
01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:29.820
your choice. Either you use the tools, for
1568
01:00:29.820 --> 01:00:32.800
purposes that you deem to be functional, you
1569
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:36.980
know, important, forward -looking, whatever, or you have
1570
01:00:36.980 --> 01:00:38.680
the tools used on you. But the tool
1571
01:00:38.680 --> 01:00:40.680
is out. It's all there is to it,
1572
01:00:40.680 --> 01:00:41.820
right? One of you guys said it earlier,
1573
01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:43.420
the cat's out of the bag. And if
1574
01:00:43.420 --> 01:00:45.040
you don't - Monkeys out of the bottle.
1575
01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:45.940
The monkeys out of the ball. If you
1576
01:00:45.940 --> 01:00:49.620
don't focus your energy on this stuff, like
1577
01:00:49.620 --> 01:00:51.240
Hoddle said, you're on the frontier. Someone else
1578
01:00:51.240 --> 01:00:52.720
is going to, and we've already seen it.
1579
01:00:52.720 --> 01:00:54.320
It's not a mystery. This is happening. So
1580
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:56.660
not only are they using AI on us,
1581
01:00:56.660 --> 01:00:59.720
but they're also hijacking, like, small Chinese resellers.
1582
01:00:59.720 --> 01:01:01.340
Okay. The, the, the, the, the, the, the,
1583
01:01:01.340 --> 01:01:03.380
fucking race is on here. You can pretend
1584
01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:06.040
it's not. You can pretend that we're safe
1585
01:01:06.040 --> 01:01:08.460
because shot 56 is safe. That's not a
1586
01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:11.580
question for now. But this other stuff very
1587
01:01:11.580 --> 01:01:13.540
much in question. And like I mentioned, if
1588
01:01:13.540 --> 01:01:15.900
you can daisy chain together vulnerabilities to create
1589
01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:17.980
an exploit, you're not going to know about
1590
01:01:17.980 --> 01:01:20.660
it until it's too late. And that's the
1591
01:01:20.660 --> 01:01:22.560
other problem. And the, in the toughest part
1592
01:01:22.560 --> 01:01:24.500
is, is what you guys are all talking
1593
01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:26.500
about. The attacker only has to be right
1594
01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:29.000
once, right? You have to defend. You're defending
1595
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:31.080
unlimited positions. And they only have to be
1596
01:01:31.080 --> 01:01:33.540
right one time. And that's what we're dealing
1597
01:01:33.540 --> 01:01:35.380
with right now and why it's so difficult.
1598
01:01:35.380 --> 01:01:38.060
Yeah, I think it's worth mentioning that our
1599
01:01:38.060 --> 01:01:40.180
friend Larry, who's become a friend of the
1600
01:01:40.180 --> 01:01:42.120
show, obviously, over the last little while, BlackRock,
1601
01:01:42.120 --> 01:01:47.380
reducing AI exposure. I don't know. We didn't
1602
01:01:47.380 --> 01:01:49.800
really touch on like the financials and the,
1603
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.120
you know, machinations of whether or not Anthropic
1604
01:01:52.120 --> 01:01:54.820
is a profitable company. And we've obviously discussed,
1605
01:01:54.820 --> 01:01:57.140
you know, this idea that the commoditization of
1606
01:01:57.140 --> 01:01:58.740
tokens will continue and these things will trend
1607
01:01:58.740 --> 01:02:01.780
to zero over time, blah, blah, blah, blah.
1608
01:02:01.780 --> 01:02:06.120
I don't know whether or not there's such
1609
01:02:06.120 --> 01:02:08.020
a thing as reducing AI exposure at this
1610
01:02:08.020 --> 01:02:09.920
point. Because when I look at the earlier
1611
01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:14.160
story about Microsoft, for example, no matter what
1612
01:02:14.160 --> 01:02:17.260
company you're invested in, you are now invested
1613
01:02:17.260 --> 01:02:19.360
in an AI company. This is not like
1614
01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:22.700
the blockchain blow up from, you know, 2017,
1615
01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:24.840
right, where Kodak became a blockchain company and
1616
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:26.760
there was a blockchain iced tea company and
1617
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:28.020
a blockchain company and a blockchain fucking shoe
1618
01:02:28.020 --> 01:02:32.500
company. Like, it's not that. that. Now, like,
1619
01:02:32.500 --> 01:02:33.920
the idea that you can quote unquote reduce
1620
01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:36.220
AI exposure, I just don't think is true.
1621
01:02:36.220 --> 01:02:38.380
Because I'm looking across the spectrum of companies
1622
01:02:38.380 --> 01:02:40.660
here, and whether it's Nike and Lulu, who
1623
01:02:40.660 --> 01:02:42.420
are clearly using AI for some of their
1624
01:02:42.420 --> 01:02:45.240
advertising and probably for their internals, or it's
1625
01:02:45.240 --> 01:02:47.720
company like Microsoft or Google, that is basically
1626
01:02:47.720 --> 01:02:49.780
not only in on AI CAPX, but also
1627
01:02:49.780 --> 01:02:52.860
AI as a productivity tool. So these guys
1628
01:02:52.860 --> 01:02:55.200
are not only buying data centers, they're firing,
1629
01:02:55.200 --> 01:02:56.420
like I said earlier, a third of their
1630
01:02:56.420 --> 01:02:58.900
overall headcount replacing with AI. I don't think
1631
01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:01.140
you can actually get away from AI. And
1632
01:03:01.140 --> 01:03:03.840
part of me is in this camp now
1633
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:08.060
where I think that AI and Bitcoin are
1634
01:03:08.060 --> 01:03:11.880
almost like linked as far as their future
1635
01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:14.480
success. Because one is going to protect the
1636
01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:16.140
other and one is going to be spent
1637
01:03:16.140 --> 01:03:19.080
by the other as well. So I just
1638
01:03:19.080 --> 01:03:21.000
want to leave that with you guys. We're
1639
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:22.180
going to go to break. And when we
1640
01:03:22.180 --> 01:03:24.160
come back, we got a few more stories
1641
01:03:24.160 --> 01:03:26.720
to cover some fun stuff as always. Don't
1642
01:03:26.720 --> 01:03:28.880
go anywhere, throw some chairs, leave some likes.
1643
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:30.460
And we'll see you in. in a minute
1644
01:03:30.460 --> 01:03:32.780
or two. You already know that you can't
1645
01:03:32.780 --> 01:03:34.080
leave your seed phrase on paper. It needs
1646
01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:35.380
to be on metal. What you might not
1647
01:03:35.380 --> 01:03:36.620
know is that more Bitcoin has actually been
1648
01:03:36.620 --> 01:03:38.600
lost than been stolen. More than 10 times
1649
01:03:38.600 --> 01:03:40.380
the amount ever hacked, gone because someone lost
1650
01:03:40.380 --> 01:03:42.380
their keys. Your biggest risk isn't some shadowy
1651
01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:44.460
supercoder, it's time in the elements. That's why
1652
01:03:44.460 --> 01:03:47.460
Stampseed uses titanium. Titanium never rusts. Doesn't matter
1653
01:03:47.460 --> 01:03:48.500
if it's a raging house fire at the
1654
01:03:48.500 --> 01:03:49.620
bottom of the ocean or sitting at a
1655
01:03:49.620 --> 01:03:51.660
desk door for 50 years, titanium doesn't care.
1656
01:03:51.660 --> 01:03:53.080
One salt piece, nothing to come apart that
1657
01:03:53.080 --> 01:03:54.800
you hammer in. By the stamp seed kit
1658
01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:55.980
and as your set evolves, you just grab
1659
01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:57.660
more plates. Stamp it once and never worry
1660
01:03:57.660 --> 01:03:59.420
about your backup again. And for the advanced
1661
01:03:59.420 --> 01:04:01.620
users, There's the clear code set. Every letter,
1662
01:04:01.620 --> 01:04:03.100
number, and symbol of your full keyboard, no
1663
01:04:03.100 --> 01:04:05.460
two characters alike, your passphrase, your descriptor, backed
1664
01:04:05.460 --> 01:04:07.320
up on titanium. This is what I personally
1665
01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:08.980
use and have for years, so stop leaving
1666
01:04:08.980 --> 01:04:11.180
yourself exposed. They're giving you 15 % off
1667
01:04:11.180 --> 01:04:12.880
with promo code Bitcast so that you finally
1668
01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.540
get this done today. Click the link in
1669
01:04:14.540 --> 01:04:15.980
the description down below or scan the QR
1670
01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:18.100
code on the screen. When it comes to
1671
01:04:18.100 --> 01:04:20.260
peer -to -peer trading and lending, instant self
1672
01:04:20.260 --> 01:04:23.360
-c custody and no KYC, hoddle -hottle is
1673
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:25.120
the place to be. You can sign up
1674
01:04:25.120 --> 01:04:26.840
with just an email address, and once you're
1675
01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:29.380
there, you can start browsing offers immediately, whether
1676
01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:31.020
you're looking. to buy and sell or whether
1677
01:04:31.020 --> 01:04:33.300
you're looking to lend or borrow. You can
1678
01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:35.120
check them out today at the links down
1679
01:04:35.120 --> 01:04:37.840
below. Bitcoin Well, you know them, you love
1680
01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:39.760
them, longtime supporter of the channel, and one
1681
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.720
of the easiest places to buy Bitcoin directly
1682
01:04:41.720 --> 01:04:43.560
to your wallet in the US and Canada,
1683
01:04:43.560 --> 01:04:44.940
but that's not all they do. So for
1684
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:46.560
anyone looking to make a big purchase, there
1685
01:04:46.560 --> 01:04:48.880
is Bitcoin Well Infinite. Because the hard part
1686
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:50.080
is in the buy, it's making sure you
1687
01:04:50.080 --> 01:04:51.740
don't leave a giant mess for your family.
1688
01:04:51.740 --> 01:04:54.000
Taxes, estate planning, even mining and lending. Bitcoin
1689
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:55.780
Well Infinite pairs you with your own dedicated
1690
01:04:55.780 --> 01:04:57.780
advisor to help you every step of the
1691
01:04:57.780 --> 01:05:00.340
way. And for the Americans, their own Bitcoin
1692
01:05:00.340 --> 01:05:02.820
IRA and the wait list is open. Verifiable
1693
01:05:02.820 --> 01:05:05.000
and on chain. So, sign up today, visit
1694
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:07.400
Bitcoinwell .com slash BTC sessions or scan the
1695
01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.680
QR code on the screen. Tradition like no
1696
01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:12.860
other here on the program besides me fucking
1697
01:05:12.860 --> 01:05:16.520
up the share. Michael Sailor Hour. Can you
1698
01:05:16.520 --> 01:05:17.600
guys see that? You can't see it. It's
1699
01:05:17.600 --> 01:05:19.260
not sharing. Weird. Anyway, I can't see this
1700
01:05:19.260 --> 01:05:21.700
thing. I'll see you. Nathan, we need you.
1701
01:05:21.700 --> 01:05:24.760
I know. It's actually unbelievable how, like, finicky
1702
01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:26.160
the share thing is in the year of
1703
01:05:26.160 --> 01:05:28.280
our Lord 2026. Although, to be honest with
1704
01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:29.720
you, Nathan never has a problem with it.
1705
01:05:29.720 --> 01:05:31.960
So maybe it's just a user error here.
1706
01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:35.040
But Mike back in the news for buying
1707
01:05:35.040 --> 01:05:38.440
some Bitcoin or buying some, I should say,
1708
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:41.780
STRC back. He did not buy Bitcoin this
1709
01:05:41.780 --> 01:05:44.920
week. Huddl, I don't think we've talked to
1710
01:05:44.920 --> 01:05:49.240
you about Sailor, the STRC thing and the
1711
01:05:49.240 --> 01:05:52.920
Treasury Company strategy broadly in the times you've
1712
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:55.600
been on the show. But, you know, Walker
1713
01:05:55.600 --> 01:05:59.840
and I obviously are invested in this. If
1714
01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:01.280
I may, Joey, if I may, Joey. Go
1715
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:03.300
ahead, yeah. For your reference, a little context
1716
01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:06.800
for this. So, Joey spent all summer telling
1717
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:09.940
everyone that STRC was basically a Ponzi scheme
1718
01:06:09.940 --> 01:06:12.040
and was going to zero. The micro strategy
1719
01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:14.660
was fucked, all these different things. It turns
1720
01:06:14.660 --> 01:06:17.520
out, Hoddle, that at the same time that
1721
01:06:17.520 --> 01:06:20.220
Joey was misleading our viewers, and I was
1722
01:06:20.220 --> 01:06:22.360
trying to tell the truth about my, you
1723
01:06:22.360 --> 01:06:23.600
know, the fact that I, yes, I do
1724
01:06:23.600 --> 01:06:25.320
have a position in MSTR. I wouldn't recommend
1725
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:27.080
buying it or recommend buying Bitcoin, but, like,
1726
01:06:27.080 --> 01:06:29.220
I do hold it myself. Have for a
1727
01:06:29.220 --> 01:06:33.280
long time. that Joey was lying, it turns
1728
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:34.960
out. It's a Canadian thing, I guess. It's
1729
01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:38.780
a cultural thing. And was DCAing every week
1730
01:06:38.780 --> 01:06:41.660
into MSTR as he was fading it on
1731
01:06:41.660 --> 01:06:42.800
stream. So I just wanted to give you
1732
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:44.100
that context because I didn't know if you
1733
01:06:44.100 --> 01:06:45.580
had it. And I feel that it is
1734
01:06:45.580 --> 01:06:47.260
important for you to know just when Joey's
1735
01:06:47.260 --> 01:06:50.140
asking these questions. So, Joey, please continue. Tough
1736
01:06:50.140 --> 01:06:52.540
life. Take it away. Take it away, so,
1737
01:06:52.540 --> 01:06:58.160
yeah, I have owned MSTR since $24 a
1738
01:06:58.160 --> 01:07:00.940
share, I think. So I've been a long
1739
01:07:00.940 --> 01:07:05.260
-term MSTR bull. And my heuristic for buying
1740
01:07:05.260 --> 01:07:08.580
it was extremely simple, which was this company
1741
01:07:08.580 --> 01:07:10.780
is going to have the most Bitcoin. That
1742
01:07:10.780 --> 01:07:14.320
means they win. So my thesis has not
1743
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.100
changed. Every time Michael Saylor puts up a
1744
01:07:17.100 --> 01:07:20.920
rocket chip image that has too many afterburners
1745
01:07:20.920 --> 01:07:24.700
that all correspond to different shit, I go.
1746
01:07:24.700 --> 01:07:27.360
Oh, no. Oh, no, we lost him right
1747
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:28.920
in the middle of it. What are they
1748
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:30.540
going to say? Come back. Wait, you got
1749
01:07:30.540 --> 01:07:32.600
to say it. We're going to reset it.
1750
01:07:32.600 --> 01:07:35.560
We like, we lost you at the afterburners.
1751
01:07:35.560 --> 01:07:37.880
And then it was a big. Every time
1752
01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:39.860
there's a, every time there's a rocket chip
1753
01:07:39.860 --> 01:07:41.780
image with too many afterburners that all say
1754
01:07:41.780 --> 01:07:43.820
too many different things I don't understand. I
1755
01:07:43.820 --> 01:07:46.000
start to get a little concern, you know.
1756
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:48.320
But the thesis remains simple, which is this
1757
01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:50.460
company going to have a lot of Bitcoin,
1758
01:07:50.460 --> 01:07:51.920
that means they're going to do really good
1759
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:54.940
in life, you know? So that's all I
1760
01:07:54.940 --> 01:07:58.160
got on MSCR. Very simple, uh, strategy there.
1761
01:07:58.160 --> 01:08:00.840
This is my one. You care about Bitcoin
1762
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.120
per share. Does that like, does anyone outside
1763
01:08:03.120 --> 01:08:07.380
of these like niche, like, MSTR Discord chats
1764
01:08:07.380 --> 01:08:09.420
really give a shit about Bitcoin per share?
1765
01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:11.240
Am I dreaming? This is something. Yeah, exactly.
1766
01:08:11.240 --> 01:08:13.500
No one fucking cares about this. I guarantee
1767
01:08:13.500 --> 01:08:16.400
I have more. Nobody cares. I don't give
1768
01:08:16.400 --> 01:08:19.400
a fuck. I don't care at all. I
1769
01:08:19.400 --> 01:08:20.120
don't even know what it is. We get
1770
01:08:20.120 --> 01:08:23.740
it. We're poor. Jesus, man. You kick a
1771
01:08:23.740 --> 01:08:26.680
guy watch down. I don't even know. I
1772
01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:27.940
don't even know what the current Bitcoin for
1773
01:08:27.940 --> 01:08:30.060
share is. What is it? That's just the
1774
01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:31.540
number I made up. I don't even know.
1775
01:08:31.540 --> 01:08:34.440
I have no idea. Go ahead. Go ahead,
1776
01:08:34.440 --> 01:08:37.100
Walker.! Tell me something good about this. I
1777
01:08:37.100 --> 01:08:40.720
mean, I don't know. My thesis is similar
1778
01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:44.080
to Hoddles because I'm not a trader. If
1779
01:08:44.080 --> 01:08:45.600
I would have listened to my wife when
1780
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:47.660
she told me to sell MSTR at the
1781
01:08:47.660 --> 01:08:49.320
tops that we could buy it when it
1782
01:08:49.320 --> 01:08:51.480
went lower. And I was like, oh, yeah,
1783
01:08:51.480 --> 01:08:52.700
honey, I'll just sell at the top and
1784
01:08:52.700 --> 01:08:54.000
buy the bond. She told me to sell
1785
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:55.260
right at, I mean, like at a pico
1786
01:08:55.260 --> 01:08:57.640
top. She really called it. She should be
1787
01:08:57.640 --> 01:08:59.280
my quant. I should have listened to you,
1788
01:08:59.280 --> 01:09:01.500
honey. You'll never watch this show, so it
1789
01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:03.980
doesn't matter. But the point is, like, my
1790
01:09:03.980 --> 01:09:05.820
thesis also hasn't changed. Again, let me preface
1791
01:09:05.820 --> 01:09:07.740
this by saying, I don't recommend that anyone
1792
01:09:07.740 --> 01:09:09.940
buy any security. I recommend that you buy
1793
01:09:09.940 --> 01:09:13.880
spot Bitcoin and get your casino -grade dice
1794
01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:18.300
and roll them 2 ,000 times. Flat surface.
1795
01:09:18.300 --> 01:09:21.640
Yeah, on a perfectly flat, you know, machine
1796
01:09:21.640 --> 01:09:23.360
-plained surface and generate entropy via the solar
1797
01:09:23.360 --> 01:09:24.360
-flarens surface and generate additional entropy via the
1798
01:09:24.360 --> 01:09:27.100
solar flares of the sun and, you know,
1799
01:09:27.100 --> 01:09:30.700
laboratory, all that stuff. But, like, I hold
1800
01:09:30.700 --> 01:09:33.640
it myself. I've held it for a while
1801
01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:36.000
also. Like, I also hold some in an
1802
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.720
account that, like, is not able to hold
1803
01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:42.280
spot Bitcoin, right? Like, old leftover 401K from
1804
01:09:42.280 --> 01:09:46.000
one of my first Fiat jobs that I
1805
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:48.640
changed to self -directed, because apparently, like, the
1806
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:50.940
directed ones are just like, here, here's, here's,
1807
01:09:50.940 --> 01:09:52.280
we'll keep you up with inflation. There you
1808
01:09:52.280 --> 01:09:55.560
go. Do you want to be aggressive? We
1809
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:59.380
got a slider. Yeah. You're aggressive, kind of
1810
01:09:59.380 --> 01:10:02.840
aggressive? Big balls guy. You want to be
1811
01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:03.280
a big balls guy? You want to be
1812
01:10:03.280 --> 01:10:05.820
a big balls guy? It's so funny. I
1813
01:10:05.820 --> 01:10:07.680
love the slider. That's the slider. I love
1814
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:09.320
the slider. The slider's great. I don't know
1815
01:10:09.320 --> 01:10:10.560
if you guys ever actually look at what
1816
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:12.640
the slider fucking gives you. In Canada, the
1817
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:15.560
slider is like reducing the gold exposure from
1818
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:19.360
40 %, 20%. Yeah, it's like, here's a
1819
01:10:19.360 --> 01:10:24.200
little bit more of Vanguard's Target 55. Like,
1820
01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:26.540
oh, you like that, don't you? You're out
1821
01:10:26.540 --> 01:10:28.780
there on the edge, man. You're aggressive, big
1822
01:10:28.780 --> 01:10:32.040
boy. Nice work. But look, on the MSTR
1823
01:10:32.040 --> 01:10:34.240
thing, I think that all of the MSTR
1824
01:10:34.240 --> 01:10:36.640
doomers, Joey included, although he's not a real
1825
01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:38.140
dumer, because he was just, you know, he
1826
01:10:38.140 --> 01:10:39.220
was lying to all of you in the
1827
01:10:39.220 --> 01:10:41.280
chat. Is K -fabe? Everyone's talking about K
1828
01:10:41.280 --> 01:10:43.500
-Fame. Yeah, Joey, just because we learned about
1829
01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:45.200
the word K -Fabe last week, doesn't mean
1830
01:10:45.200 --> 01:10:46.980
you get to use to excuse your actions,
1831
01:10:46.980 --> 01:10:48.480
okay? People don't forget. God, what does K
1832
01:10:48.480 --> 01:10:49.300
-Fa -M -Fame mean? The point here is
1833
01:10:49.300 --> 01:10:52.060
that, like, MSDR is going to be fine.
1834
01:10:52.060 --> 01:10:52.860
S -T -R -C is going to be
1835
01:10:52.860 --> 01:10:55.180
fine. If it's not, I'll say I was,
1836
01:10:55.180 --> 01:10:57.160
okay, I was wrong. they weren't fine. In
1837
01:10:57.160 --> 01:11:00.840
this situation that they're not fine, Bitcoin's probably
1838
01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:04.920
not doing super well. So like, if you
1839
01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:06.800
believe that Bitcoin's going to keep doing super
1840
01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:08.680
well, you kind of necessarily need to believe
1841
01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:11.580
strategy will. It's not a super complicated thing.
1842
01:11:11.580 --> 01:11:13.120
You don't have to like what they're doing.
1843
01:11:13.120 --> 01:11:15.520
You don't have to buy the stock. But
1844
01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:17.900
to just like the constant fading that I
1845
01:11:17.900 --> 01:11:20.620
see of it, I just think is like,
1846
01:11:20.620 --> 01:11:22.160
it doesn't make any sense to me. Like
1847
01:11:22.160 --> 01:11:23.320
you're clearly not thinking - It's been six
1848
01:11:23.320 --> 01:11:26.260
years now. Yeah. Michael Siler is. is a
1849
01:11:26.260 --> 01:11:28.420
fact of Bitcoin at this point. You know,
1850
01:11:28.420 --> 01:11:30.600
he's going to be one of the largest
1851
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:35.340
hoddlers of Bitcoin from here till whenever, and
1852
01:11:35.340 --> 01:11:38.040
it just is what it is, you know.
1853
01:11:38.040 --> 01:11:42.040
Brandon, you are not an MSCR shareholder. Are
1854
01:11:42.040 --> 01:11:43.880
we retarded? What's going on on on this
1855
01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:46.140
side of the chat? No. No, I think
1856
01:11:46.140 --> 01:11:47.820
that's the whole point. The whole point is
1857
01:11:47.820 --> 01:11:51.960
that if you don't believe in strategy, then
1858
01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:53.640
you don't really believe in Bitcoin, because they're
1859
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:56.360
inextricably linked. Like, there's no way. What is
1860
01:11:56.360 --> 01:12:00.440
delinking them at this point? You tell me,
1861
01:12:00.440 --> 01:12:02.720
I guess. So to me, it's, if you
1862
01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:05.000
believe in Bitcoin, well, then guess what? Strategy
1863
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:07.340
is going up. I mean, like, stretches going
1864
01:12:07.340 --> 01:12:09.480
to be fine. Strategies going up, whatever. You
1865
01:12:09.480 --> 01:12:12.060
know, just generally speaking. And so that's where
1866
01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:14.680
I think the dichotomy, like Walker just said,
1867
01:12:14.680 --> 01:12:17.680
the fading strategy, I get in the sense
1868
01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:19.520
of like traditional, you know, you got to
1869
01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:21.700
believe in the CEO and the plan and
1870
01:12:21.700 --> 01:12:23.300
this and that. And like, yeah, I mean,
1871
01:12:23.300 --> 01:12:25.160
I guess there is theoretically some of that.
1872
01:12:25.160 --> 01:12:26.820
We saw a little bit with the, they're
1873
01:12:26.820 --> 01:12:28.460
selling a little bit. They're trying the trial
1874
01:12:28.460 --> 01:12:30.260
balloon. We're going to sell. And also some
1875
01:12:30.260 --> 01:12:31.380
of the Fiat games that are being played.
1876
01:12:31.380 --> 01:12:33.540
But generally speaking, yeah, they've got, what, 840
1877
01:12:33.540 --> 01:12:35.460
,000 Bitcoin? I mean, like, they're not selling
1878
01:12:35.460 --> 01:12:37.840
all of it, guys. Like this, they're, like,
1879
01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.660
like Hattel said, they're a fact. Like, it's
1880
01:12:39.660 --> 01:12:41.480
a fact. Deal with it. It's okay. And
1881
01:12:41.480 --> 01:12:42.500
like, going back to the beginning of the
1882
01:12:42.500 --> 01:12:44.560
show, it's going to be different strokes for
1883
01:12:44.560 --> 01:12:45.660
different folks. There's going to be people getting
1884
01:12:45.660 --> 01:12:47.520
Bitcoin in a million different ways as life
1885
01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:49.380
goes on. And we just, we have to
1886
01:12:49.380 --> 01:12:51.460
accept that. Let me give you the thesis
1887
01:12:51.460 --> 01:12:57.000
one more time. gonna do good boy. My
1888
01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.620
stuff. And you're in your retirement now, okay?
1889
01:13:00.620 --> 01:13:04.100
So easy, so easy. Even though Matthew Crather.
1890
01:13:04.100 --> 01:13:04.700
Okay, can I read something from the chat?
1891
01:13:04.700 --> 01:13:05.500
Can I read something from the chat here
1892
01:13:05.500 --> 01:13:08.340
because like, this is just so fucking, no
1893
01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:11.340
offense. Where is it? What comment is it?
1894
01:13:11.340 --> 01:13:14.300
It says almost something like holding Luna when
1895
01:13:14.300 --> 01:13:18.360
Doquan was accumulating like 80s. Sailor is Doquan
1896
01:13:18.360 --> 01:13:20.540
and Wall Street version, but we'll end differently,
1897
01:13:20.540 --> 01:13:24.560
hopefully for you, Winky Face. I appreciate you
1898
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:28.020
being here. in this chat. I sincerely do.
1899
01:13:28.020 --> 01:13:29.120
And so when I say what I'm about
1900
01:13:29.120 --> 01:13:30.220
to say, I want you to know that
1901
01:13:30.220 --> 01:13:33.960
I say it with love. That is such
1902
01:13:33.960 --> 01:13:36.780
a fucking low IQ take. It pains me
1903
01:13:36.780 --> 01:13:39.100
to even read it out loud. I appreciate
1904
01:13:39.100 --> 01:13:40.620
you being here. I'm not saying you're low
1905
01:13:40.620 --> 01:13:44.220
IQ, but that's a low IQ take. They're
1906
01:13:44.220 --> 01:13:47.900
not the same thing. Like, not at all.
1907
01:13:47.900 --> 01:13:50.940
If you think they are, like, I don't
1908
01:13:50.940 --> 01:13:53.840
know. Again, don't fucking buy any. Nobody cares.
1909
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:55.400
Like, nobody cares. Bitch about Sailor. all you
1910
01:13:55.400 --> 01:13:56.960
want. He's going to be sitting there on
1911
01:13:56.960 --> 01:13:59.540
one of his six fucking mega yachts as
1912
01:13:59.540 --> 01:14:03.120
a a bazillionaire just living his life while
1913
01:14:03.120 --> 01:14:07.360
you cry about him. Okay? So like, maybe
1914
01:14:07.360 --> 01:14:10.180
just realize that, as Brandon said very succinctly,
1915
01:14:10.180 --> 01:14:13.080
and Hodel said with a certain type of
1916
01:14:13.080 --> 01:14:17.420
affectation that, you know, I personally enjoy. Yeah.
1917
01:14:17.420 --> 01:14:18.820
They go do good. They go and new
1918
01:14:18.820 --> 01:14:20.740
good. They go and new good. Southern. Did
1919
01:14:20.740 --> 01:14:23.520
you hear something else like? No, no. Southern.
1920
01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:25.140
Yeah, it was Southern. What are you hearing?
1921
01:14:25.140 --> 01:14:26.740
It's like, it sounds like a guy in
1922
01:14:26.740 --> 01:14:29.700
overalls prospecting for gold, honestly. Yeah. That's pretty
1923
01:14:29.700 --> 01:14:32.360
good. You're a fan and water boy. Yeah.
1924
01:14:32.360 --> 01:14:35.680
That's what it is. That's a prospector. Yeah.
1925
01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:37.580
That's what I was thinking. They got a
1926
01:14:37.580 --> 01:14:38.560
lot of, those boys got a lot of
1927
01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:42.460
Bitcoin. Oh, we're going further. Okay. I like
1928
01:14:42.460 --> 01:14:43.960
it. You're going to come back. We're going
1929
01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:46.780
to win the bourbon bowl. I like it.
1930
01:14:46.780 --> 01:14:49.580
Listen, let's, let's, let's keep getting retarded here.
1931
01:14:49.580 --> 01:14:51.560
This guys, this guy's tipped over. Let's keep
1932
01:14:51.560 --> 01:14:54.540
getting retarded here. We got, we got one.
1933
01:14:54.540 --> 01:14:57.020
We never get bolt -hearted on this show.
1934
01:14:57.020 --> 01:14:58.560
Okay, we're always talking about things that are
1935
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:00.580
affecting the price, whether or not the straight
1936
01:15:00.580 --> 01:15:02.860
-of -hormoos is open, you know, all this
1937
01:15:02.860 --> 01:15:06.100
other shit that's kind of black pill. Charles
1938
01:15:06.100 --> 01:15:08.020
Schwab says we're going to 100K in the
1939
01:15:08.020 --> 01:15:09.680
next six months. I don't fucking know if
1940
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:11.920
that's true, but I want it to be.
1941
01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:13.660
Okay, Hoddle's got the thumbs down. Go ahead.
1942
01:15:13.660 --> 01:15:15.260
Make sure you do the voice, please. It's
1943
01:15:15.260 --> 01:15:18.340
too low. It's too low. Put Chuckie Schwab
1944
01:15:18.340 --> 01:15:19.360
on the phone with me. Let me send
1945
01:15:19.360 --> 01:15:22.340
him straight. It's too low, dog. It should
1946
01:15:22.340 --> 01:15:24.420
be way higher. You guys, in the States,
1947
01:15:24.420 --> 01:15:25.720
like, you know. You guys have your fucking
1948
01:15:25.720 --> 01:15:29.840
election in two weeks, right? I think. So,
1949
01:15:29.840 --> 01:15:31.360
I mean, it's sort of a win no
1950
01:15:31.360 --> 01:15:32.780
matter what. You get the Dems in there,
1951
01:15:32.780 --> 01:15:35.980
they print. The Republicans are regulatoryly, you know,
1952
01:15:35.980 --> 01:15:37.520
friendly to this thing. I mean, I don't
1953
01:15:37.520 --> 01:15:39.400
know. Is that all you got? Hottle, you
1954
01:15:39.400 --> 01:15:41.720
got more for me? That's it. That's it.
1955
01:15:41.720 --> 01:15:43.780
That's too low. It's going to do good.
1956
01:15:43.780 --> 01:15:46.720
It's going to do. It's going to do
1957
01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:49.320
good. It's too many. Either way. Brandon, what
1958
01:15:49.320 --> 01:15:51.000
do you think? Yeah, no. I think, Hidal,
1959
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:52.460
again, he said it very simple. And you
1960
01:15:52.460 --> 01:15:53.600
really don't need to say much more. But,
1961
01:15:53.600 --> 01:15:55.600
like, again, it's, it's. It's all systems go
1962
01:15:55.600 --> 01:15:56.960
after the election. Get this guy off the
1963
01:15:56.960 --> 01:16:00.240
street. It's the uncertainty of elections, which happens
1964
01:16:00.240 --> 01:16:02.620
to people, and this is normal. And you're
1965
01:16:02.620 --> 01:16:05.500
going to have the Trump that all the
1966
01:16:05.500 --> 01:16:06.880
things are building, right? All the things we've
1967
01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:08.880
talked about for a long time going forward.
1968
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:11.080
And I do believe, you know, what, you
1969
01:16:11.080 --> 01:16:13.100
know, Huddl didn't, you know, elaborate on his
1970
01:16:13.100 --> 01:16:14.380
point here, but he's just saying it in
1971
01:16:14.380 --> 01:16:16.520
one sentence instead. But you have Warsh, a
1972
01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:18.340
lot of what's going on, these guys want
1973
01:16:18.340 --> 01:16:19.960
to be, they want to be dovish. You
1974
01:16:19.960 --> 01:16:20.940
know, I know, I know, I know, I
1975
01:16:20.940 --> 01:16:23.080
was hawkish and like all this stuff. But
1976
01:16:23.080 --> 01:16:25.240
like, we have 40, billion in debt. Like
1977
01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:26.700
you can't, you can't keep playing this game
1978
01:16:26.700 --> 01:16:29.040
forever. At some point, the chicken's home home
1979
01:16:29.040 --> 01:16:30.740
to roos, you got to have liquidity in
1980
01:16:30.740 --> 01:16:32.620
the market and there's got to be stimmies
1981
01:16:32.620 --> 01:16:35.460
somehow, some way, shape, some fashion. So that's
1982
01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:37.360
coming in 2027, 28, which goes back to
1983
01:16:37.360 --> 01:16:39.060
the four -year thesis, we talked about in
1984
01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:40.140
this show of they had a two -year
1985
01:16:40.140 --> 01:16:41.520
plan and they had a four -year plan.
1986
01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:43.420
The four -year plan lines and greases the
1987
01:16:43.420 --> 01:16:46.500
skids up for the general presidential election, which
1988
01:16:46.500 --> 01:16:49.640
is the elongating of the Trump plans, policies
1989
01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:53.060
of sovereignty, the American system, and bringing all
1990
01:16:53.060 --> 01:16:54.760
all the things back to America. it's not
1991
01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:55.780
a two -year thing. It's not a four
1992
01:16:55.780 --> 01:16:58.420
-year thing. You need a generation of this
1993
01:16:58.420 --> 01:17:00.520
coming back and on -shoring things and if
1994
01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:02.260
you go watch all their stuff, that's exactly
1995
01:17:02.260 --> 01:17:04.140
what they've been doing and lining up this
1996
01:17:04.140 --> 01:17:06.580
entire time. So to me, it's all systems
1997
01:17:06.580 --> 01:17:08.980
go because that, and like you said, Joey,
1998
01:17:08.980 --> 01:17:10.620
if Democrats come back in power at some
1999
01:17:10.620 --> 01:17:12.740
point, that's good, too. We saw with Biden,
2000
01:17:12.740 --> 01:17:13.700
right? You're going to have printing. You're going
2001
01:17:13.700 --> 01:17:15.280
to have mass craziness that way, too. It's
2002
01:17:15.280 --> 01:17:17.460
going to happen either way. So buckle up.
2003
01:17:17.460 --> 01:17:22.320
M2 decreased under Biden, fun fact. Yeah, yeah.
2004
01:17:22.320 --> 01:17:23.940
Just throwing it out there.! But that's, yeah,
2005
01:17:23.940 --> 01:17:25.060
but that's, that's, that's, that's. I think that's
2006
01:17:25.060 --> 01:17:27.660
a little bit of a base effect there,
2007
01:17:27.660 --> 01:17:29.220
I think. I know, I'm just throwing it
2008
01:17:29.220 --> 01:17:30.880
out there. I'm just throwing it out there,
2009
01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:33.580
guys. I just can't wait for president AOC.
2010
01:17:33.580 --> 01:17:35.720
I can't, you know, that's my president right
2011
01:17:35.720 --> 01:17:38.120
there. You know? I love it. You guys
2012
01:17:38.120 --> 01:17:39.480
see the meme of her other day. Just
2013
01:17:39.480 --> 01:17:43.240
on communism. What me? Talking about Elon, saying
2014
01:17:43.240 --> 01:17:44.880
like, he's just like the dumbest billionaire I
2015
01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:46.900
know. It's like the flying car behind her.
2016
01:17:46.900 --> 01:17:49.740
Oh my god. Yeah, that's really good. I
2017
01:17:49.740 --> 01:17:52.260
love it. I love it. The car is
2018
01:17:52.260 --> 01:17:54.280
still sick. Listen, we're, we're going to wrap
2019
01:17:54.280 --> 01:17:55.720
it up here. because I got to go.
2020
01:17:55.720 --> 01:17:56.860
I got to stream in 20 minutes and
2021
01:17:56.860 --> 01:17:59.120
I got to eat something. So for my
2022
01:17:59.120 --> 01:18:03.120
friends and I, Brandon, American Hoddle, Walker, thank
2023
01:18:03.120 --> 01:18:04.740
you for watching. Thank you for throwing chairs.
2024
01:18:04.740 --> 01:18:07.500
Ben and Nathan will be back on Wednesday.
2025
01:18:07.500 --> 01:18:09.020
My name is Joey. This was Bitcast. We
2026
01:18:09.020 --> 01:18:13.340
will see you later. You know the world
2027
01:18:13.340 --> 01:18:17.020
is heading down a dark path. Online censorship,
2028
01:18:17.020 --> 01:18:19.560
central bank digital currencies, a complete loss of
2029
01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:22.760
privacy, and it's only accelerating. Most people are
2030
01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:25.400
falling behind with the latest technology, and those
2031
01:18:25.400 --> 01:18:28.480
that aren't are sacrificing their data, their control,
2032
01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:32.040
and their dignity just to keep up. That
2033
01:18:32.040 --> 01:18:34.400
doesn't have to be you. Here, you'll have
2034
01:18:34.400 --> 01:18:36.880
everything you need to break free. Over the
2035
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:39.720
past decade, I've helped 20 million people take
2036
01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:41.820
control of their money, their data, and their
2037
01:18:41.820 --> 01:18:44.780
digital lives. Now I'm bringing everything I've learned
2038
01:18:44.780 --> 01:18:47.620
to one place. Sovereign Sessions is your home
2039
01:18:47.620 --> 01:18:51.640
to learn, master, and live freedom tech. Bitcoin,
2040
01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:55.920
AI, private communications, self -hosted tools, everything. Each
2041
01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:57.800
week, I'll walk you through step by step
2042
01:18:57.800 --> 01:19:00.620
with the most critical tools that put you
2043
01:19:00.620 --> 01:19:04.200
back in charge. Don't ask permission, take control.
2044
01:19:04.200 --> 01:19:07.240
Welcome to the Sovereign.