WEBVTT
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that all stroke survivors?
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you know, You know, I mean, generally they're told that you have you have six months after, after the stroke,
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stroke, um, that you can.
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you know,
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know, recovered, or that you have the most neuroplasticity,
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after 6 months.
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Um,
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um, that may be the case, although,
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that
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um, that doesn't mean that healing or recovery stops.
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Um, I, Things
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things have come back Hi, I'm Brittany and a member of BIND and Brain Injury Survivor.
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And hi, I'm Carrie, a stroke survivor, and a member of BIND as well, and today we are excited to welcome Judy Cage.
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Judy is also a stroke survivor and an author and an advocate who has defied staggering medical odds and now helps others after navigate life after trauma.
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So welcome, Judy.
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Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the hosts bindwaves or the Brain Injury Network.
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This podcast is for informational purposes only, and it's not a substitute for professional medical advice, the diagnosis or treatment.
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Always seek the advice of a healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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Thank you.
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Thank you thank you so much.
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Okay.
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And, um, if you would just kind of provide a brief overview of your stroke and your recovery journey so far.
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Absolutely.
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Uh, well in, January of of 2019, I
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I had a
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a massive hemorrhagic stroke.
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Um,
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blood flooded my, the right side of my brain and so it took out the left the left side of my body.
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Um, I I had, uh, and I'll just go head to toe basically.
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Um, I I had, uh, double vision.
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Uh, my left arm fell out of my shoulder socket.
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Um, I had dropped foot and, uh, left side, entirely.
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Um, so, and then I and then I had, you know, cognitive issues, speech issues, um, you know, you know, I've lost some.
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Um, bodily functions, but, but um, I actually, a with the combination of.
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um, uh, you know, um, um, working massively at the therapy and, um, spontaneous recovery.
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was I was able to get most of it.
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Um, great.
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yeah.
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Yeah.
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Um, and, and a pretty, uh, Quick quick amount of time.
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Um, I was actually to to walk out of.
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acute rehab, um, and, uh, I, I basically had spent eight weeks total in the hospital.
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Um, but able I was able to walk out and then, um, after one one round of occupational therapy, actually actually returned to work.
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So I, I, um, uh, uh, some people might call it crazy.
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Um, I was just stubborn.
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That, stubborn.
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you know, after a stroke or brain injury, I think stubborn is a good quality to have.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yes.
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am I have valued it a lot now.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So what do you think was your biggest improvement, um, since your stroke?
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Um, Um, you know, I'd say that it, it, um, It was probably the, that that recovery, the gaining that fallback, but then.
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um, uh, also I think the things that I've regained that I that I never thought I would like, um, my, um, uh, Reactions and my and my instincts and like my reflexes, have those have actually come back better than they were before.
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not I'm not entirely sure why, I'm not going to but I'm not gonna question it.
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Um, you Um, you know, now I.
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catch catch things, but as I drop'em, instead of, you know, letting something fall and crash.
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Um, that, I mean, I mean, I was clumsy before, so I never expected that sort of back.
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back.
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Um.
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But but yeah, it, it's really just, oh oh gosh, the, yeah, the walking, um was, probably the best best I had felt.
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in a while, That's good.
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Yeah, I know.
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I tell everyone, I think for me,'cause my stroke, I had a hemorrhagic as well.
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It was very similar.
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Mine was on the right side, affected the left side.
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I tell everyone, I think for me, my real independence was when I got rid of the cane because then I could carry my own coffee.
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I could actually open the bathroom door on my own.
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I didn't have to have someone go with me, you know, everywhere I went to open the door for me.
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So to me I was like, yeah, independence.
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Finally I'm there.
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Um, Um, I mean on a, on a more, know, know, it, um.
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um,
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On a on a higher level where you're impacting more people, um, I would say driving and getting that back was also pretty key.
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Yeah, that's, yeah.
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That was mine.
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And they're putting others on the road at risks.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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So, um.
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What was your career before your injury?
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um, Um, before my my injury I was a, um, A compliance
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officer for
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commercial commercial warranty.
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Um,
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I had started
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of in the and it's kind of in the field of accounting, audit, then then risk and controls.
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Okay.
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And, um.
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No, go ahead.
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I'm sorry.
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I was just gonna say, and were you able to go back?
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You were able, I mean, I, from, we talked, I think you were able to go back into that and, um, I was, you were, they were very accommodating, if I remember correctly.
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So, Very much so, um, I, they, the company is great in terms of,
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you know,
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you know, they had, um,
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uh, you know,
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you know, they followed the rules of long term disability.
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Um,
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of of that company and, um, the company itself, um, was a
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was a bit more stringent and unpleasant, but the, um,
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But
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but my company itself, um, were super supportive.
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They,
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gave me as much time as I as I needed to go through through the therapy and then go through the outpatient therapy.
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Um, and then they always wanted to listen to my doctor and, you you know, we as we move forward, so.
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um, my, my stroke doctor said after the outpatient I was permitted to work four hours a week.
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Um, Um, which I thought that was crazy until I started and understood that, wow, four hours is actually pretty hard.
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Um, and and then I just built my way back up.
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Um, I and I was working, um, I was I was working, um.
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I'm sorry, on, On, um, on long term until like, like, I built it back up until November of that, of, um, five years.
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And then, um, they kicked me off for where they take me hours and then shortly after that I was actually promoted.
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So.
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That's awesome.
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And were, did you find that you needed any additional like or new accommodations to help you do your job that you didn't need before the stroke?
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I I did, um, before the stroke, I would always push I and I think, you know, I mean, I guess that's how, but, um, uh, they allowed me to work, um, you know, you know, kind of closer to, you know, up later.
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where If I if I was, I started, I would start at like 10 instead set of, you know, 8:30 or or nine.
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Um, and and then if I.
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needed, if I If I was failing cognitively, uh, my boss would tell me to He would see see it on my face on video calls, or hear it in my voice, and would he would just say, Judy Uhuh, like, Uhuh, like, shut down.
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And, um, was was incredibly helpful.
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I mean, sometimes I would be stubborn and say, boss, boss, I can, I can get through this.
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It's not a problem.
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But they, absolutely was great.
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Supportive feeling to know he was looking up.
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That's great.
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That's good.
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Um, so part of your journey, like did, are you part of any organizations or support groups?
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I am, i'm, I'm
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am a a peer mentor at the hospital.
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Um, and and also I, I also talk to numerous stroke survivors.
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I tell everyone to pass them my way so I can.
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help them out.
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Um, I am part I'm part of the, uh, stroke support group group at the hospital.
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Um, and when, when, uh, pre COVID, um, the, hospital also also had a patient advocacy group, and I was a and I was part of that as well.
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That's great.
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And I know that through all this, after your stroke, you went out and wrote a book.
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Called Super Survivor.
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So how, how did you decide to write a book in the midst of your recovery and trying to go back to work and do all of that?
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That's pretty amazing.
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Thank yeah.
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Um,
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well, when I, a few months out of the stroke, I, um,
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a.
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Had
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Set
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set my mind on a goal and I said, let me run the Broad Street run in Philadelphia.
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which is a 10 mile run.
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I'd
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I had never run long distances before.
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I, you know, kind of detested it.
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Even in my track career, I had a career, I had
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did short
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short distances.
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um, and,
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um,
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I had,
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i, so I started a blog to document that journey saying, um, yeah, I look at this, I wasn't rocking a few months ago and now I'm gonna run 10 miles through the city of Philadelphia.
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And
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um.
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but
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but then that was stopped short.
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My doctor said, do you think you should ask your doctor
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whether
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whether you can run 10 miles?
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You know?
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And
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I said,
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I said, oh, doc, do you think you can run 10 miles?
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And he
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and he says, um,
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says,
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he said,
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like I
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like, I could run the 10 miles, but at the training you would, would be bad for blood pressure going up and down.
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Oh.
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Um,
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so I had to switch goals or switch gears.
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I,
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a
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there was a whole number of.
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other
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goals like going to, um, get a professional certificate at the Berkeley School of Music.
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Um,
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i,
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just
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just wanted to kind of
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dabble and live
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and live in life.
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And,
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and, um,
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and once
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once the five year mark, um,
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um, I
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I had turned
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that
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that blood into,
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um,
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because
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the
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the five year survival rate forrr stroke.
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was in the,
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in the study that, like one of the very few studies you find out there, um, was 26.7%.
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So when
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when I,
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Um, past
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passed that, mark and I, I had kept,
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I had
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I had kept
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my
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my stroke and my struggles private for so long.
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Um, and I
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and I had done that for the workplace, but also to my neighbors so that I wouldn't get, you know, the pitying looks or know, just, um, kind of all the questions.
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Um,
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the
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all the questions, you know.
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Sure are fine.
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Um, but um, I had
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I just had just kept it quiet and I didn't want anyone to know
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professionally.
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Um,
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and
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as
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as I did more and more peer,
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um, I
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I felt like the same questions were repeating.
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Um, and also.
00:12:41.311 --> 00:12:41.721
people wanted
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to know that it was possible
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that you could go back
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to work, that you could,
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you know you know,
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you know, rebuild your life.
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Um,
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um, so I wanted to put that out there.
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I said, I'm,
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I don't
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I don't know why I'm hiding.
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It's not doing anyone any good for me to hide this.
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So
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why
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that's why.
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and wrote it.
00:13:01.605 --> 00:13:01.815
Yeah.
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Which gets us into our next question.
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Um, how do you challenge ableism and invisible illness stereotypes?
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Well, um,
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um, mostly I, I present very normally.
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Um, I, the, the more people that I meet, they tell me there's no,
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a
00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:23.250
no way had a stroke.
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They don't, they don't either.
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Don't believe it, not that they would be conscious of it.
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Of it.
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Of it.
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Most of the regular people
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Um,
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um, are regular healthy individuals who haven't had a brain injury or, stroke.
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Um, they see
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they see me and they treat me like.
00:13:38.616 --> 00:13:39.787
am perfectly healthy.
00:13:40.626 --> 00:13:40.927
And
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and in doing that
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has
00:13:43.605 --> 00:13:45.164
as contrasting
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my own awareness
00:13:47.235 --> 00:13:49.154
that this is what
00:13:49.236 --> 00:13:49.417
the
00:13:49.664 --> 00:13:53.445
the rest of the world, or sorry, the rest of the healthy world,
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sees me as, or this is this is how they naturally move about the world.
00:13:59.856 --> 00:14:00.517
But
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my understanding
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um, all of
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all of this, now I can show.
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and
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and announce, um,
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know, the
00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.009
the viewpoint of a non-healthy person.
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excuse
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excuse me.
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.610
And so then as I can point
00:14:17.736 --> 00:14:18.937
out, I can
00:14:19.049 --> 00:14:20.975
I can also advocate for,
00:14:21.517 --> 00:14:22.116
people in the
00:14:22.289 --> 00:14:23.639
well, the workplace
00:14:23.797 --> 00:14:24.517
could use
00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:27.179
use resting stations or electrolytes or,
00:14:27.246 --> 00:14:28.567
Or, you know,
00:14:28.649 --> 00:14:31.169
you know, di different hours if they need it.
00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:32.190
Um,
00:14:32.317 --> 00:14:34.326
and just
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:37.019
just trying to create as much awareness.
00:14:37.027 --> 00:14:37.986
that as possible.
00:14:38.894 --> 00:14:39.404
That's good.
00:14:39.404 --> 00:14:49.934
So is there anything specific that you found that you can do or do to empower others with chronic or cognitive challenges?
00:14:50.616 --> 00:14:51.216
Oh gosh.
00:14:51.375 --> 00:14:54.570
Gosh, I have learned so much about hu
00:14:55.312 --> 00:14:55.822
Because I
00:14:55.929 --> 00:14:58.095
as I was so stubborn with,
00:15:00.652 --> 00:15:02.182
with just
00:15:02.565 --> 00:15:04.934
just overdoing it and then crashing.
00:15:05.211 --> 00:15:05.422
and
00:15:05.475 --> 00:15:08.684
um, and then finding what my brain, uh,
00:15:08.932 --> 00:15:10.912
needed for like to
00:15:11.144 --> 00:15:12.195
like to keep going.
00:15:12.652 --> 00:15:12.922
Um,
00:15:13.184 --> 00:15:17.264
um, so if I got tired, of course the cognition disappeared,
00:15:17.374 --> 00:15:17.433
my
00:15:17.565 --> 00:15:17.894
my
00:15:18.063 --> 00:15:18.124
would
00:15:18.124 --> 00:15:19.634
would slow down.
00:15:19.701 --> 00:15:20.841
Um, and
00:15:20.985 --> 00:15:29.595
and so I've learned, um, I've passed on to other peers, um, that, you know,
00:15:29.841 --> 00:15:30.292
kind of
00:15:30.404 --> 00:15:34.754
kind of filter things out just by shutting off all stimulus.
00:15:34.822 --> 00:15:35.182
Like
00:15:35.325 --> 00:15:37.845
like if we, if I was on a Zoom call,
00:15:37.912 --> 00:15:38.692
um, I
00:15:38.955 --> 00:15:41.355
I would, you know, put on closed captioning.
00:15:41.361 --> 00:15:41.751
But
00:15:41.804 --> 00:15:47.445
but if, if there were a bunch of words on the screen, I would also just turn off the camera
00:15:47.451 --> 00:15:47.932
and put
00:15:47.955 --> 00:15:49.695
and put my head down and listen to what was
00:15:49.731 --> 00:15:50.032
going
00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:50.450
going on
00:15:50.631 --> 00:15:50.841
that
00:15:50.865 --> 00:15:53.504
so that I could actually absorb some of it.
00:15:53.961 --> 00:15:54.772
Um, and
00:15:54.945 --> 00:15:55.875
and so,
00:15:56.121 --> 00:15:56.302
when
00:15:56.565 --> 00:16:00.049
when people don't realize that when you're at a restaurant.
00:16:00.831 --> 00:16:01.341
you know,
00:16:01.470 --> 00:16:02.549
know, you can't
00:16:02.751 --> 00:16:03.231
any of
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:04.139
any of it.
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:07.379
That noises are bouncing off the walls, um,
00:16:08.032 --> 00:16:09.052
uh, that,
00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:09.509
that,
00:16:09.706 --> 00:16:09.826
I,
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:11.100
know, say,
00:16:11.392 --> 00:16:11.871
Okay.
00:16:12.111 --> 00:16:12.532
But
00:16:12.570 --> 00:16:12.929
but
00:16:13.131 --> 00:16:14.422
possible put in an
00:16:14.429 --> 00:16:15.750
put in an ear plug know,
00:16:15.922 --> 00:16:16.822
know, uh, or
00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:18.149
uh, or put in both.
00:16:18.261 --> 00:16:19.312
Um, it
00:16:19.365 --> 00:16:24.870
it is possible to help kind of lessen that cognitive load.
00:16:25.101 --> 00:16:25.642
then,
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.289
um, also the fact that,
00:16:28.491 --> 00:16:28.822
um,
00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:30.029
um, your.
00:16:31.701 --> 00:16:32.782
uh, you know,
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:36.389
you know, you not only have physical energy that you spend
00:16:36.412 --> 00:16:36.892
mental
00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.179
energy, emotional,
00:16:39.726 --> 00:16:40.177
Um,
00:16:40.350 --> 00:16:43.649
um, and taking into consideration everything that,
00:16:44.647 --> 00:16:45.726
um, have
00:16:45.754 --> 00:16:50.490
you have to process within the day and if you have events later in the week and
00:16:50.706 --> 00:16:50.826
of
00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:52.164
kind of balance out your load,
00:16:52.657 --> 00:16:55.206
Um, and knowing that
00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.570
that and sharing that, just, you know, from my mistakes or from my lessons, I,
00:17:00.726 --> 00:17:02.706
able to share that with other survivors.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.619
that's really good.
00:17:04.619 --> 00:17:07.394
I'm gonna take a quick little break and just remind our listeners.
00:17:08.085 --> 00:17:17.174
To go ahead and click that like button, click that follow button, click that share button, just click all the buttons that have thumbs up and we'll go from there.
00:17:17.565 --> 00:17:24.914
But I was gonna say, I mean, I think that is so true, and I love that you recognize that in yourself and that you're sharing that with others.
00:17:25.575 --> 00:17:37.244
'cause I know once I finally got back to being normal and thought everything was good, we started the podcast, I wanna say 10 to 12 years after my stroke.
00:17:37.244 --> 00:17:37.575
And.
00:17:38.174 --> 00:17:43.755
The first day we did the podcast'cause just the way that things worked and it was a free thing.
00:17:43.755 --> 00:17:45.255
Someone was doing everything for us.
00:17:45.255 --> 00:17:45.914
In the beginning.
00:17:46.454 --> 00:17:51.105
We did like five podcasts in that first day, back to back to back to back.
00:17:51.134 --> 00:17:54.075
I mean, I was a corporate trainer, so I was used to talking all day.
00:17:54.164 --> 00:17:56.865
I don't mean I don't, I'm used to talking all day regardless.
00:17:56.865 --> 00:17:57.765
I'm happy to do that.
00:17:58.095 --> 00:18:06.404
But at the end of that day, I went home and took the longest nap before bed'cause I was so mentally drained and.
00:18:06.944 --> 00:18:07.904
Everything about me.
00:18:07.904 --> 00:18:10.634
I, my body hurt, my brain hurt.
00:18:10.815 --> 00:18:19.065
I just, I was like, I, that was so much to do, and it's one of those things that I guess people take for granted in a normal day.
00:18:19.065 --> 00:18:21.765
That there's, there's, you know, they're fine.
00:18:21.765 --> 00:18:30.075
But we have found that in the clubhouse that we tell new survivors, if you can't make it the full whole day, the, in the beginning, not a big deal.
00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:37.950
You're here to work and do as much as you can do, and if after five hours you go, no, I need to, or three hours I need to go home.
00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:42.839
Or we do have a room that has, we have a quiet room that has recliners.
00:18:43.049 --> 00:18:48.900
If you need to go take a 15 minute break, no questions asked, go ahead.
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:53.910
So it's, that's one of those, yeah, that I think a lot of people don't realize.
00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:56.279
Again, it's that you look fine.
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:57.269
Why are you tired?
00:18:57.509 --> 00:18:59.069
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.070 --> 00:18:59.080
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.080 --> 00:18:59.244
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.557 --> 00:19:00.007
Or,
00:19:00.075 --> 00:19:00.674
Yeah.
00:19:00.674 --> 00:19:02.805
Um, I used to have, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:19:02.805 --> 00:19:05.414
I used to have, um, um,
00:19:05.497 --> 00:19:05.616
a
00:19:05.684 --> 00:19:07.994
a lot of TIAs, uh,
00:19:08.106 --> 00:19:08.257
the
00:19:08.384 --> 00:19:09.555
from the age of four,
00:19:09.636 --> 00:19:10.146
um,
00:19:10.154 --> 00:19:11.255
um, because I have Moyamoya
00:19:11.521 --> 00:19:11.602
syndrome,
00:19:11.894 --> 00:19:12.255
syndrome,
00:19:12.592 --> 00:19:13.162
Um,
00:19:13.724 --> 00:19:15.045
and, uh,
00:19:15.201 --> 00:19:16.432
I, you know,
00:19:16.575 --> 00:19:26.144
you know, in the office, um, you know, once I was in my early twenties and on, um, prior to my surgeries and prior to the stroke, um,
00:19:26.842 --> 00:19:27.412
you know, I
00:19:27.494 --> 00:19:28.839
I would have a TIA.
00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:31.319
And I would have to leave work.
00:19:31.701 --> 00:19:32.481
and I
00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:36.930
I said I had a really bad headache, and
00:19:37.221 --> 00:19:38.511
my coworkers would look
00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:40.019
would look at me and say,
00:19:40.071 --> 00:19:40.221
have
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.990
I have never gone home'cause I've had a headache.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.789
I'm like, oh, you've never had one of these.
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:45.089
Right.
00:19:45.741 --> 00:19:46.791
Um, and so,
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.029
and so, yeah, absolutely.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.819
Mm-hmm.
00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:54.269
So what is a TIA again, just to elaborate.
00:19:54.291 --> 00:19:55.402
is ischemic attack.
00:19:55.402 --> 00:19:55.582
It's
00:19:55.589 --> 00:19:55.859
attack, stroke.
00:19:55.942 --> 00:19:56.332
stroke.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:58.170
Mm-hmm.
00:19:58.171 --> 00:19:58.181
Yeah.
00:19:58.181 --> 00:19:58.191
Yeah.
00:19:58.724 --> 00:19:59.625
So, wow.
00:20:00.045 --> 00:20:01.575
Especially invisible injury.
00:20:02.144 --> 00:20:03.105
I look invisible.
00:20:03.105 --> 00:20:05.265
A lot of people are like, you don't look like you have brain injury.
00:20:05.295 --> 00:20:06.855
I'm like, well, I do.
00:20:06.855 --> 00:20:12.464
And then sometimes my day too, I go home and I'm tired, like I will skip dinner and everything.
00:20:12.464 --> 00:20:14.174
I'll be like straight to bed.
00:20:14.204 --> 00:20:17.025
Then I'll wake up, I'm like, oh, it's the next day.
00:20:17.414 --> 00:20:19.125
Let me recharge my battery.
00:20:19.454 --> 00:20:19.845
Right.
00:20:19.845 --> 00:20:20.265
Yeah.
00:20:20.744 --> 00:20:24.375
Well, um, I know you said that you.
00:20:25.049 --> 00:20:29.204
Had a track career and you attempted or thought about, I know, I'm, I'm, I know, I know.
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:33.089
But so what do you do for fun outside of work?
00:20:33.089 --> 00:20:37.025
Do you still like to run or jog or, I mean, what do you do to relax after a long day?
00:20:37.267 --> 00:20:38.527
Oh, I do
00:20:38.664 --> 00:20:39.184
I do not
00:20:39.846 --> 00:20:40.836
Um, do
00:20:40.884 --> 00:20:42.944
do anything faster than walking
00:20:43.116 --> 00:20:43.686
I have to.
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:45.045
Unless I do mm-hmm.
00:20:45.595 --> 00:20:45.884
Fair.
00:20:45.997 --> 00:20:47.076
sometimes I, I
00:20:47.164 --> 00:20:48.900
i, I run after the dog
00:20:49.297 --> 00:20:53.317
a, you know, from a scooter, um, uh,
00:20:53.369 --> 00:20:53.964
uh, I.
00:20:54.307 --> 00:20:54.636
you know, I'll
00:20:54.914 --> 00:20:56.174
i'll listen to music.
00:20:56.174 --> 00:20:56.234
Um,
00:20:56.797 --> 00:20:57.787
I will,
00:20:58.125 --> 00:20:58.184
i'll,
00:20:58.297 --> 00:20:58.807
um,
00:20:58.815 --> 00:21:01.365
um, you know, sometimes if I have
00:21:01.446 --> 00:21:02.497
energy, I will
00:21:02.505 --> 00:21:04.904
i'll binge watch some Netflix.
00:21:05.257 --> 00:21:06.757
Um, but I'll,
00:21:06.765 --> 00:21:07.484
i'll, I'll
00:21:07.596 --> 00:21:07.656
the
00:21:07.855 --> 00:21:08.414
snuggle with the dog,
00:21:08.586 --> 00:21:09.126
Usually,
00:21:09.194 --> 00:21:09.900
but yeah, that,
00:21:09.997 --> 00:21:10.386
favorite
00:21:10.515 --> 00:21:10.619
be good.
00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:11.414
A good thing to do.
00:21:11.414 --> 00:21:11.565
Yeah.
00:21:12.015 --> 00:21:17.244
I would say I'm a firm believer in there's no need to run unless someone's chasing you.
00:21:17.586 --> 00:21:18.067
Yeah.
00:21:20.234 --> 00:21:24.434
I mean, I'll leave it at that, but yeah, even when I was healthy, I was not a runner.
00:21:26.047 --> 00:21:26.467
When I'm
00:21:26.565 --> 00:21:28.845
when I'm late to an appointment
00:21:28.957 --> 00:21:29.136
my
00:21:29.325 --> 00:21:32.115
day to my chiropractor, he's a couple blocks away.
00:21:32.204 --> 00:21:32.325
Mm-hmm.
00:21:32.467 --> 00:21:33.636
try to, you
00:21:33.644 --> 00:21:35.984
to, you know, pick up my feet and go,
00:21:36.037 --> 00:21:36.336
I've
00:21:36.345 --> 00:21:39.345
but I've found that I can run run the, when
00:21:39.366 --> 00:21:39.696
something
00:21:39.704 --> 00:21:42.105
it's something that I really am excited about,
00:21:42.277 --> 00:21:42.666
if it's
00:21:42.674 --> 00:21:43.934
but if it's something that's
00:21:43.987 --> 00:21:45.007
of, you know,
00:21:45.105 --> 00:21:48.105
you know, boring or monotonous or, you know,
00:21:48.126 --> 00:21:48.576
um,
00:21:48.615 --> 00:21:52.484
um, I can't just mechanically pick out my feet, the.
00:21:52.686 --> 00:21:52.696
to.
00:21:53.535 --> 00:22:00.674
Yeah, I, I can't, I still have to wear an a AFO on the left leg, so my knee, my leg never came back.
00:22:00.674 --> 00:22:04.335
So I, I don't walk normal, so running is just not an option.
00:22:05.684 --> 00:22:05.984
Mm-hmm.
00:22:06.345 --> 00:22:16.515
But I can kinda walk a little fast, but it doesn't help that I have little legs too, you know, all four foot 11 of me never could walk very fast, so.
00:22:17.025 --> 00:22:17.174
Hmm.
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:23.730
So what's one piece of advice you would like to leave with our listeners?
00:22:25.146 --> 00:22:27.576
one, um, big piece.
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:29.880
and, um, I think you
00:22:29.916 --> 00:22:30.277
talked
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.589
talked about it, um, on your pod,
00:22:32.737 --> 00:22:33.156
um,
00:22:33.269 --> 00:22:34.500
um, or
00:22:34.642 --> 00:22:37.488
Is that all stroke survivors?
00:22:37.551 --> 00:22:45.172
You know, You know, I mean, generally they're told that you have you have six months after, after the stroke,
00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:47.045
stroke, um, that you can.
00:22:47.332 --> 00:22:47.781
you know,
00:22:48.015 --> 00:22:51.674
know, recovered, or that you have the most neuroplasticity,
00:22:51.723 --> 00:22:52.163
after 6 months.
00:22:52.673 --> 00:22:53.124
Um,
00:22:53.183 --> 00:22:56.835
um, that may be the case, although,
00:22:56.902 --> 00:22:57.082
that
00:22:57.105 --> 00:23:00.974
um, that doesn't mean that healing or recovery stops.
00:23:01.184 --> 00:23:04.267
Um, I, Things
00:23:04.394 --> 00:23:05.625
things have come back
00:23:06.426 --> 00:23:07.267
years
00:23:07.730 --> 00:23:07.890
after,
00:23:07.926 --> 00:23:08.616
my stroke.
00:23:09.096 --> 00:23:09.396
Um,
00:23:09.555 --> 00:23:11.144
um, as long as you,
00:23:11.406 --> 00:23:12.481
um, you know, you,
00:23:12.494 --> 00:23:12.974
you know, you
00:23:13.176 --> 00:23:13.237
of
00:23:13.605 --> 00:23:17.374
kind of improve that by continuing work on things or, you know,
00:23:17.376 --> 00:23:19.146
know, um, if you
00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:22.740
if you brush your teeth, stay with your non-dominant hand,
00:23:22.926 --> 00:23:23.646
maybe,
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.130
be, you know, rewire your brain,
00:23:26.166 --> 00:23:26.527
um,
00:23:26.670 --> 00:23:28.829
um, to have more connection.
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:29.640
And,
00:23:29.886 --> 00:23:30.037
I
00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:36.575
um, I just wanna let people know that they shouldn't get discouraged if they only think that they got the six months to
00:23:36.636 --> 00:23:36.876
get
00:23:37.115 --> 00:23:37.815
get things done.
00:23:37.926 --> 00:23:38.826
That, that there
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.200
That there is a lot longer.
00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:41.549
Yeah, I totally agree.
00:23:41.549 --> 00:23:41.789
Yes.
00:23:41.789 --> 00:23:42.960
And we do say that a lot.
00:23:43.779 --> 00:23:45.855
Brain injury is lifelong recovery.
00:23:45.855 --> 00:23:51.224
And we have, we're fortunate enough to have our life to continue to work on recovery.
00:23:51.224 --> 00:23:51.765
And I agree.
00:23:51.765 --> 00:23:56.265
I see 16 years later I can still see progress being made.
00:23:56.295 --> 00:24:00.075
Maybe, you know, not like leaps and bounds progress, but progress.
00:24:00.555 --> 00:24:09.734
So, um, is there anything that you feel like we should have asked you that we haven't covered yet that you would like to add in?
00:24:17.196 --> 00:24:18.666
Not that I can think of really.
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:19.650
Okay.
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:23.759
Um, well then I'm gonna say thank you, Judy.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:28.890
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and words of wisdom and keep helping other survivors out there.
00:24:29.557 --> 00:24:30.307
Absolutely.
00:24:30.307 --> 00:24:30.396
I
00:24:30.509 --> 00:24:31.209
I love doing it.
00:24:31.219 --> 00:24:31.578
Thank
00:24:31.751 --> 00:24:32.092
so much.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:32.440
so much.
00:24:32.565 --> 00:24:33.525
Thank you so much.
00:24:33.525 --> 00:24:33.825
You're welcome.
00:24:34.005 --> 00:24:36.555
And thanks to all our listeners for listening.
00:24:36.674 --> 00:24:41.535
And remember, you can find our new episodes on all your favorite platforms.
00:24:41.625 --> 00:24:42.525
Until next time.
00:24:43.085 --> 00:24:43.954
Until next time.
00:24:47.301 --> 00:25:00.501
We hope you've enjoyed listening to BIND Waves and continue to support Brain Injury Network in our nonprofit mission, we support brain injury survivors as they reconnect into life, the community, and the workplace.
00:25:01.251 --> 00:25:04.821
And we couldn't do that without great listeners like you.
00:25:05.632 --> 00:25:08.031
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00:25:08.692 --> 00:25:14.301
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00:25:14.886 --> 00:25:20.436
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00:25:21.307 --> 00:25:36.007
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00:25:37.717 --> 00:25:39.037
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00:25:40.957 --> 00:25:42.031
Until next time.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.319
that all stroke survivors?
00:00:02.384 --> 00:00:10.005
you know, You know, I mean, generally they're told that you have you have six months after, after the stroke,
00:00:10.012 --> 00:00:11.878
stroke, um, that you can.
00:00:12.164 --> 00:00:12.615
you know,
00:00:12.848 --> 00:00:16.507
know, recovered, or that you have the most neuroplasticity,
00:00:16.556 --> 00:00:16.995
after 6 months.
00:00:17.506 --> 00:00:17.955
Um,
00:00:18.015 --> 00:00:21.667
um, that may be the case, although,
00:00:21.734 --> 00:00:21.914
that
00:00:21.937 --> 00:00:25.807
um, that doesn't mean that healing or recovery stops.
00:00:26.018 --> 00:00:29.100
Um, I, Things
00:00:29.228 --> 00:00:42.494
things have come back Hi, I'm Brittany and a member of BIND and Brain Injury Survivor.
00:00:43.005 --> 00:00:50.655
And hi, I'm Carrie, a stroke survivor, and a member of BIND as well, and today we are excited to welcome Judy Cage.
00:00:50.895 --> 00:01:01.814
Judy is also a stroke survivor and an author and an advocate who has defied staggering medical odds and now helps others after navigate life after trauma.
00:01:02.085 --> 00:01:03.615
So welcome, Judy.
00:01:04.218 --> 00:01:12.769
Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the hosts bindwaves or the Brain Injury Network.
00:01:13.278 --> 00:01:21.649
This podcast is for informational purposes only, and it's not a substitute for professional medical advice, the diagnosis or treatment.
00:01:22.039 --> 00:01:28.549
Always seek the advice of a healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
00:01:28.909 --> 00:01:29.358
Thank you.
00:01:31.762 --> 00:01:33.299
Thank you thank you so much.
00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:33.959
Okay.
00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:40.170
And, um, if you would just kind of provide a brief overview of your stroke and your recovery journey so far.
00:01:40.759 --> 00:01:41.618
Absolutely.
00:01:41.828 --> 00:01:45.263
Uh, well in, January of of 2019, I
00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:45.780
I had a
00:01:45.903 --> 00:01:48.066
a massive hemorrhagic stroke.
00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:49.680
Um,
00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:55.409
blood flooded my, the right side of my brain and so it took out the left the left side of my body.
00:01:55.581 --> 00:02:00.150
Um, I I had, uh, and I'll just go head to toe basically.
00:02:00.412 --> 00:02:03.750
Um, I I had, uh, double vision.
00:02:03.861 --> 00:02:08.460
Uh, my left arm fell out of my shoulder socket.
00:02:08.909 --> 00:02:13.162
Um, I had dropped foot and, uh, left side, entirely.
00:02:14.250 --> 00:02:22.050
Um, so, and then I and then I had, you know, cognitive issues, speech issues, um, you know, you know, I've lost some.
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:30.060
Um, bodily functions, but, but um, I actually, a with the combination of.
00:02:30.081 --> 00:02:38.610
um, uh, you know, um, um, working massively at the therapy and, um, spontaneous recovery.
00:02:38.632 --> 00:02:40.770
was I was able to get most of it.
00:02:41.481 --> 00:02:42.504
Um, great.
00:02:43.396 --> 00:02:43.687
yeah.
00:02:43.884 --> 00:02:44.175
Yeah.
00:02:44.180 --> 00:02:48.629
Um, and, and a pretty, uh, Quick quick amount of time.
00:02:48.689 --> 00:02:52.139
Um, I was actually to to walk out of.
00:02:52.567 --> 00:03:00.884
acute rehab, um, and, uh, I, I basically had spent eight weeks total in the hospital.
00:03:01.215 --> 00:03:11.384
Um, but able I was able to walk out and then, um, after one one round of occupational therapy, actually actually returned to work.
00:03:11.736 --> 00:03:16.935
So I, I, um, uh, uh, some people might call it crazy.
00:03:16.995 --> 00:03:18.854
Um, I was just stubborn.
00:03:18.914 --> 00:03:19.986
That, stubborn.
00:03:20.055 --> 00:03:24.224
you know, after a stroke or brain injury, I think stubborn is a good quality to have.
00:03:24.224 --> 00:03:24.314
Mm-hmm.
00:03:24.914 --> 00:03:25.455
Yes.
00:03:25.776 --> 00:03:27.824
am I have valued it a lot now.
00:03:27.824 --> 00:03:27.884
Yeah.
00:03:28.905 --> 00:03:29.175
Yeah.
00:03:29.504 --> 00:03:34.275
So what do you think was your biggest improvement, um, since your stroke?
00:03:34.891 --> 00:03:47.324
Um, Um, you know, I'd say that it, it, um, It was probably the, that that recovery, the gaining that fallback, but then.
00:03:47.977 --> 00:04:09.629
um, uh, also I think the things that I've regained that I that I never thought I would like, um, my, um, uh, Reactions and my and my instincts and like my reflexes, have those have actually come back better than they were before.
00:04:09.801 --> 00:04:15.150
not I'm not entirely sure why, I'm not going to but I'm not gonna question it.
00:04:15.171 --> 00:04:16.800
Um, you Um, you know, now I.
00:04:17.362 --> 00:04:23.064
catch catch things, but as I drop'em, instead of, you know, letting something fall and crash.
00:04:23.444 --> 00:04:29.242
Um, that, I mean, I mean, I was clumsy before, so I never expected that sort of back.
00:04:29.264 --> 00:04:29.564
back.
00:04:29.781 --> 00:04:30.351
Um.
00:04:30.802 --> 00:04:42.769
But but yeah, it, it's really just, oh oh gosh, the, yeah, the walking, um was, probably the best best I had felt.
00:04:43.341 --> 00:04:46.230
in a while, That's good.
00:04:46.410 --> 00:04:47.009
Yeah, I know.
00:04:47.009 --> 00:04:51.689
I tell everyone, I think for me,'cause my stroke, I had a hemorrhagic as well.
00:04:51.689 --> 00:04:52.500
It was very similar.
00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:54.750
Mine was on the right side, affected the left side.
00:04:55.170 --> 00:05:03.389
I tell everyone, I think for me, my real independence was when I got rid of the cane because then I could carry my own coffee.
00:05:03.389 --> 00:05:05.519
I could actually open the bathroom door on my own.
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.360
I didn't have to have someone go with me, you know, everywhere I went to open the door for me.
00:05:09.855 --> 00:05:12.165
So to me I was like, yeah, independence.
00:05:12.165 --> 00:05:13.305
Finally I'm there.
00:05:14.901 --> 00:05:21.562
Um, Um, I mean on a, on a more, know, know, it, um.
00:05:21.615 --> 00:05:22.185
um,
00:05:23.406 --> 00:05:31.339
On a on a higher level where you're impacting more people, um, I would say driving and getting that back was also pretty key.
00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.170
Yeah, that's, yeah.
00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:33.649
That was mine.
00:05:33.649 --> 00:05:35.714
And they're putting others on the road at risks.
00:05:35.865 --> 00:05:36.014
Yeah.
00:05:36.134 --> 00:05:36.404
Right.
00:05:38.045 --> 00:05:38.985
So, um.
00:05:39.855 --> 00:05:42.375
What was your career before your injury?
00:05:43.387 --> 00:05:49.851
um, Um, before my my injury I was a, um, A compliance
00:05:50.295 --> 00:05:50.954
officer for
00:05:51.112 --> 00:05:52.305
commercial commercial warranty.
00:05:53.182 --> 00:05:53.901
Um,
00:05:54.464 --> 00:05:56.024
I had started
00:05:56.091 --> 00:06:02.240
of in the and it's kind of in the field of accounting, audit, then then risk and controls.
00:06:03.285 --> 00:06:03.644
Okay.
00:06:03.704 --> 00:06:04.365
And, um.
00:06:05.264 --> 00:06:05.954
No, go ahead.
00:06:06.134 --> 00:06:06.404
I'm sorry.
00:06:06.584 --> 00:06:08.745
I was just gonna say, and were you able to go back?
00:06:08.745 --> 00:06:18.045
You were able, I mean, I, from, we talked, I think you were able to go back into that and, um, I was, you were, they were very accommodating, if I remember correctly.
00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:24.194
So, Very much so, um, I, they, the company is great in terms of,
00:06:24.697 --> 00:06:25.117
you know,
00:06:25.245 --> 00:06:27.345
you know, they had, um,
00:06:27.427 --> 00:06:28.447
uh, you know,
00:06:28.634 --> 00:06:31.230
you know, they followed the rules of long term disability.
00:06:31.574 --> 00:06:31.634
Um,
00:06:31.867 --> 00:06:37.057
of of that company and, um, the company itself, um, was a
00:06:37.064 --> 00:06:41.444
was a bit more stringent and unpleasant, but the, um,
00:06:41.482 --> 00:06:41.752
But
00:06:41.985 --> 00:06:45.735
but my company itself, um, were super supportive.
00:06:45.795 --> 00:06:46.185
They,
00:06:46.312 --> 00:06:53.324
gave me as much time as I as I needed to go through through the therapy and then go through the outpatient therapy.
00:06:53.714 --> 00:07:00.670
Um, and then they always wanted to listen to my doctor and, you you know, we as we move forward, so.
00:07:01.012 --> 00:07:09.240
um, my, my stroke doctor said after the outpatient I was permitted to work four hours a week.
00:07:09.637 --> 00:07:18.240
Um, Um, which I thought that was crazy until I started and understood that, wow, four hours is actually pretty hard.
00:07:18.336 --> 00:07:21.600
Um, and and then I just built my way back up.
00:07:21.899 --> 00:07:28.290
Um, I and I was working, um, I was I was working, um.
00:07:28.416 --> 00:07:39.345
I'm sorry, on, On, um, on long term until like, like, I built it back up until November of that, of, um, five years.
00:07:39.404 --> 00:07:47.115
And then, um, they kicked me off for where they take me hours and then shortly after that I was actually promoted.
00:07:47.346 --> 00:07:47.976
So.
00:07:48.855 --> 00:07:49.160
That's awesome.
00:07:49.334 --> 00:07:58.425
And were, did you find that you needed any additional like or new accommodations to help you do your job that you didn't need before the stroke?
00:07:59.857 --> 00:08:17.526
I I did, um, before the stroke, I would always push I and I think, you know, I mean, I guess that's how, but, um, uh, they allowed me to work, um, you know, you know, kind of closer to, you know, up later.
00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:24.223
where If I if I was, I started, I would start at like 10 instead set of, you know, 8:30 or or nine.
00:08:24.906 --> 00:08:27.750
Um, and and then if I.
00:08:27.786 --> 00:08:41.745
needed, if I If I was failing cognitively, uh, my boss would tell me to He would see see it on my face on video calls, or hear it in my voice, and would he would just say, Judy Uhuh, like, Uhuh, like, shut down.
00:08:41.871 --> 00:08:46.065
And, um, was was incredibly helpful.
00:08:46.125 --> 00:08:51.434
I mean, sometimes I would be stubborn and say, boss, boss, I can, I can get through this.
00:08:51.434 --> 00:08:52.365
It's not a problem.
00:08:52.904 --> 00:08:56.745
But they, absolutely was great.
00:08:57.134 --> 00:08:59.325
Supportive feeling to know he was looking up.
00:09:00.735 --> 00:09:01.485
That's great.
00:09:01.485 --> 00:09:02.085
That's good.
00:09:02.565 --> 00:09:08.355
Um, so part of your journey, like did, are you part of any organizations or support groups?
00:09:08.797 --> 00:09:10.154
I am, i'm, I'm
00:09:10.206 --> 00:09:13.575
am a a peer mentor at the hospital.
00:09:13.716 --> 00:09:19.514
Um, and and also I, I also talk to numerous stroke survivors.
00:09:19.514 --> 00:09:21.970
I tell everyone to pass them my way so I can.
00:09:21.996 --> 00:09:22.746
help them out.
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:29.669
Um, I am part I'm part of the, uh, stroke support group group at the hospital.
00:09:29.751 --> 00:09:42.450
Um, and when, when, uh, pre COVID, um, the, hospital also also had a patient advocacy group, and I was a and I was part of that as well.
00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:43.110
That's great.
00:09:43.110 --> 00:09:48.345
And I know that through all this, after your stroke, you went out and wrote a book.
00:09:48.975 --> 00:09:50.715
Called Super Survivor.
00:09:51.014 --> 00:09:59.384
So how, how did you decide to write a book in the midst of your recovery and trying to go back to work and do all of that?
00:09:59.894 --> 00:10:01.215
That's pretty amazing.
00:10:01.402 --> 00:10:02.355
Thank yeah.
00:10:02.392 --> 00:10:02.991
Um,
00:10:03.434 --> 00:10:09.105
well, when I, a few months out of the stroke, I, um,
00:10:09.172 --> 00:10:09.201
a.
00:10:09.404 --> 00:10:09.615
Had
00:10:09.951 --> 00:10:10.371
Set
00:10:10.394 --> 00:10:15.975
set my mind on a goal and I said, let me run the Broad Street run in Philadelphia.
00:10:16.208 --> 00:10:17.408
which is a 10 mile run.
00:10:17.828 --> 00:10:18.038
I'd
00:10:18.299 --> 00:10:21.059
I had never run long distances before.
00:10:21.299 --> 00:10:23.039
I, you know, kind of detested it.
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:26.190
Even in my track career, I had a career, I had
00:10:26.211 --> 00:10:26.841
did short
00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:27.899
short distances.
00:10:28.011 --> 00:10:29.542
um, and,
00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:30.480
um,
00:10:31.162 --> 00:10:31.552
I had,
00:10:31.715 --> 00:10:44.009
i, so I started a blog to document that journey saying, um, yeah, I look at this, I wasn't rocking a few months ago and now I'm gonna run 10 miles through the city of Philadelphia.
00:10:44.331 --> 00:10:44.991
And
00:10:45.509 --> 00:10:45.899
um.
00:10:45.922 --> 00:10:46.221
but
00:10:46.379 --> 00:10:48.419
but then that was stopped short.
00:10:48.629 --> 00:10:51.690
My doctor said, do you think you should ask your doctor
00:10:51.981 --> 00:10:52.312
whether
00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:54.659
whether you can run 10 miles?
00:10:54.690 --> 00:10:55.200
You know?
00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:55.409
And
00:10:55.491 --> 00:10:55.881
I said,
00:10:55.950 --> 00:10:58.794
I said, oh, doc, do you think you can run 10 miles?
00:10:59.361 --> 00:10:59.631
And he
00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:01.049
and he says, um,
00:11:01.206 --> 00:11:01.447
says,
00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:01.860
he said,
00:11:01.986 --> 00:11:02.437
like I
00:11:02.549 --> 00:11:07.889
like, I could run the 10 miles, but at the training you would, would be bad for blood pressure going up and down.
00:11:07.889 --> 00:11:07.919
Oh.
00:11:08.226 --> 00:11:08.797
Um,
00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.990
so I had to switch goals or switch gears.
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:13.409
I,
00:11:13.657 --> 00:11:13.716
a
00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:15.000
there was a whole number of.
00:11:15.547 --> 00:11:16.057
other
00:11:16.455 --> 00:11:21.855
goals like going to, um, get a professional certificate at the Berkeley School of Music.
00:11:21.966 --> 00:11:22.657
Um,
00:11:23.205 --> 00:11:23.924
i,
00:11:24.067 --> 00:11:24.366
just
00:11:24.495 --> 00:11:25.995
just wanted to kind of
00:11:26.167 --> 00:11:27.096
dabble and live
00:11:27.134 --> 00:11:28.065
and live in life.
00:11:28.657 --> 00:11:29.047
And,
00:11:29.054 --> 00:11:29.955
and, um,
00:11:30.006 --> 00:11:30.817
and once
00:11:30.884 --> 00:11:33.059
once the five year mark, um,
00:11:33.937 --> 00:11:34.836
um, I
00:11:34.965 --> 00:11:35.865
I had turned
00:11:36.006 --> 00:11:36.397
that
00:11:36.554 --> 00:11:37.304
that blood into,
00:11:37.897 --> 00:11:38.317
um,
00:11:38.715 --> 00:11:39.644
because
00:11:39.787 --> 00:11:39.966
the
00:11:40.154 --> 00:11:42.179
the five year survival rate forrr stroke.
00:11:42.427 --> 00:11:43.086
was in the,
00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:50.460
in the study that, like one of the very few studies you find out there, um, was 26.7%.
00:11:50.527 --> 00:11:51.517
So when
00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:52.649
when I,
00:11:52.731 --> 00:11:53.662
Um, past
00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:56.044
passed that, mark and I, I had kept,
00:11:56.481 --> 00:11:56.841
I had
00:11:57.044 --> 00:11:57.605
I had kept
00:11:57.652 --> 00:11:57.922
my
00:11:58.230 --> 00:12:02.610
my stroke and my struggles private for so long.
00:12:02.662 --> 00:12:03.621
Um, and I
00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:15.419
and I had done that for the workplace, but also to my neighbors so that I wouldn't get, you know, the pitying looks or know, just, um, kind of all the questions.
00:12:15.779 --> 00:12:16.230
Um,
00:12:16.432 --> 00:12:16.581
the
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:18.269
all the questions, you know.
00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:19.054
Sure are fine.
00:12:19.341 --> 00:12:21.682
Um, but um, I had
00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:26.159
I just had just kept it quiet and I didn't want anyone to know
00:12:26.272 --> 00:12:27.351
professionally.
00:12:27.802 --> 00:12:28.402
Um,
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:29.669
and
00:12:30.111 --> 00:12:30.501
as
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.370
as I did more and more peer,
00:12:33.741 --> 00:12:35.751
um, I
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:39.179
I felt like the same questions were repeating.
00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:41.129
Um, and also.
00:12:41.311 --> 00:12:41.721
people wanted
00:12:41.721 --> 00:12:43.270
to know that it was possible
00:12:43.611 --> 00:12:44.542
that you could go back
00:12:44.542 --> 00:12:45.572
to work, that you could,
00:12:45.572 --> 00:12:46.432
you know you know,
00:12:46.514 --> 00:12:47.894
you know, rebuild your life.
00:12:48.216 --> 00:12:48.547
Um,
00:12:48.705 --> 00:12:51.345
um, so I wanted to put that out there.
00:12:51.345 --> 00:12:52.245
I said, I'm,
00:12:52.417 --> 00:12:52.807
I don't
00:12:52.875 --> 00:12:54.554
I don't know why I'm hiding.
00:12:54.554 --> 00:12:57.434
It's not doing anyone any good for me to hide this.
00:12:57.434 --> 00:12:57.975
So
00:12:58.086 --> 00:12:58.356
why
00:12:58.365 --> 00:12:59.024
that's why.
00:12:59.591 --> 00:13:00.201
and wrote it.
00:13:01.605 --> 00:13:01.815
Yeah.
00:13:01.845 --> 00:13:03.524
Which gets us into our next question.
00:13:03.554 --> 00:13:08.865
Um, how do you challenge ableism and invisible illness stereotypes?
00:13:10.432 --> 00:13:11.331
Well, um,
00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:16.409
um, mostly I, I present very normally.
00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:22.080
Um, I, the, the more people that I meet, they tell me there's no,
00:13:22.192 --> 00:13:22.221
a
00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:23.250
no way had a stroke.
00:13:23.250 --> 00:13:24.750
They don't, they don't either.
00:13:24.750 --> 00:13:27.056
Don't believe it, not that they would be conscious of it.
00:13:27.111 --> 00:13:27.532
Of it.
00:13:27.629 --> 00:13:28.019
Of it.
00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:29.639
Most of the regular people
00:13:30.336 --> 00:13:30.667
Um,
00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:34.769
um, are regular healthy individuals who haven't had a brain injury or, stroke.
00:13:34.866 --> 00:13:36.517
Um, they see
00:13:36.629 --> 00:13:38.495
they see me and they treat me like.
00:13:38.616 --> 00:13:39.787
am perfectly healthy.
00:13:40.626 --> 00:13:40.927
And
00:13:41.115 --> 00:13:42.644
and in doing that
00:13:43.027 --> 00:13:43.447
has
00:13:43.605 --> 00:13:45.164
as contrasting
00:13:45.547 --> 00:13:46.836
my own awareness
00:13:47.235 --> 00:13:49.154
that this is what
00:13:49.236 --> 00:13:49.417
the
00:13:49.664 --> 00:13:53.445
the rest of the world, or sorry, the rest of the healthy world,
00:13:53.677 --> 00:13:59.774
sees me as, or this is this is how they naturally move about the world.
00:13:59.856 --> 00:14:00.517
But
00:14:01.125 --> 00:14:02.654
my understanding
00:14:02.917 --> 00:14:03.996
um, all of
00:14:04.065 --> 00:14:07.485
all of this, now I can show.
00:14:07.687 --> 00:14:07.897
and
00:14:08.129 --> 00:14:10.230
and announce, um,
00:14:10.356 --> 00:14:11.557
know, the
00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.009
the viewpoint of a non-healthy person.
00:14:14.586 --> 00:14:14.947
excuse
00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:15.629
excuse me.
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.610
And so then as I can point
00:14:17.736 --> 00:14:18.937
out, I can
00:14:19.049 --> 00:14:20.975
I can also advocate for,
00:14:21.517 --> 00:14:22.116
people in the
00:14:22.289 --> 00:14:23.639
well, the workplace
00:14:23.797 --> 00:14:24.517
could use
00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:27.179
use resting stations or electrolytes or,
00:14:27.246 --> 00:14:28.567
Or, you know,
00:14:28.649 --> 00:14:31.169
you know, di different hours if they need it.
00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:32.190
Um,
00:14:32.317 --> 00:14:34.326
and just
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:37.019
just trying to create as much awareness.
00:14:37.027 --> 00:14:37.986
that as possible.
00:14:38.894 --> 00:14:39.404
That's good.
00:14:39.404 --> 00:14:49.934
So is there anything specific that you found that you can do or do to empower others with chronic or cognitive challenges?
00:14:50.616 --> 00:14:51.216
Oh gosh.
00:14:51.375 --> 00:14:54.570
Gosh, I have learned so much about hu
00:14:55.312 --> 00:14:55.822
Because I
00:14:55.929 --> 00:14:58.095
as I was so stubborn with,
00:15:00.652 --> 00:15:02.182
with just
00:15:02.565 --> 00:15:04.934
just overdoing it and then crashing.
00:15:05.211 --> 00:15:05.422
and
00:15:05.475 --> 00:15:08.684
um, and then finding what my brain, uh,
00:15:08.932 --> 00:15:10.912
needed for like to
00:15:11.144 --> 00:15:12.195
like to keep going.
00:15:12.652 --> 00:15:12.922
Um,
00:15:13.184 --> 00:15:17.264
um, so if I got tired, of course the cognition disappeared,
00:15:17.374 --> 00:15:17.433
my
00:15:17.565 --> 00:15:17.894
my
00:15:18.063 --> 00:15:18.124
would
00:15:18.124 --> 00:15:19.634
would slow down.
00:15:19.701 --> 00:15:20.841
Um, and
00:15:20.985 --> 00:15:29.595
and so I've learned, um, I've passed on to other peers, um, that, you know,
00:15:29.841 --> 00:15:30.292
kind of
00:15:30.404 --> 00:15:34.754
kind of filter things out just by shutting off all stimulus.
00:15:34.822 --> 00:15:35.182
Like
00:15:35.325 --> 00:15:37.845
like if we, if I was on a Zoom call,
00:15:37.912 --> 00:15:38.692
um, I
00:15:38.955 --> 00:15:41.355
I would, you know, put on closed captioning.
00:15:41.361 --> 00:15:41.751
But
00:15:41.804 --> 00:15:47.445
but if, if there were a bunch of words on the screen, I would also just turn off the camera
00:15:47.451 --> 00:15:47.932
and put
00:15:47.955 --> 00:15:49.695
and put my head down and listen to what was
00:15:49.731 --> 00:15:50.032
going
00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:50.450
going on
00:15:50.631 --> 00:15:50.841
that
00:15:50.865 --> 00:15:53.504
so that I could actually absorb some of it.
00:15:53.961 --> 00:15:54.772
Um, and
00:15:54.945 --> 00:15:55.875
and so,
00:15:56.121 --> 00:15:56.302
when
00:15:56.565 --> 00:16:00.049
when people don't realize that when you're at a restaurant.
00:16:00.831 --> 00:16:01.341
you know,
00:16:01.470 --> 00:16:02.549
know, you can't
00:16:02.751 --> 00:16:03.231
any of
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:04.139
any of it.
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:07.379
That noises are bouncing off the walls, um,
00:16:08.032 --> 00:16:09.052
uh, that,
00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:09.509
that,
00:16:09.706 --> 00:16:09.826
I,
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:11.100
know, say,
00:16:11.392 --> 00:16:11.871
Okay.
00:16:12.111 --> 00:16:12.532
But
00:16:12.570 --> 00:16:12.929
but
00:16:13.131 --> 00:16:14.422
possible put in an
00:16:14.429 --> 00:16:15.750
put in an ear plug know,
00:16:15.922 --> 00:16:16.822
know, uh, or
00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:18.149
uh, or put in both.
00:16:18.261 --> 00:16:19.312
Um, it
00:16:19.365 --> 00:16:24.870
it is possible to help kind of lessen that cognitive load.
00:16:25.101 --> 00:16:25.642
then,
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.289
um, also the fact that,
00:16:28.491 --> 00:16:28.822
um,
00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:30.029
um, your.
00:16:31.701 --> 00:16:32.782
uh, you know,
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:36.389
you know, you not only have physical energy that you spend
00:16:36.412 --> 00:16:36.892
mental
00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.179
energy, emotional,
00:16:39.726 --> 00:16:40.177
Um,
00:16:40.350 --> 00:16:43.649
um, and taking into consideration everything that,
00:16:44.647 --> 00:16:45.726
um, have
00:16:45.754 --> 00:16:50.490
you have to process within the day and if you have events later in the week and
00:16:50.706 --> 00:16:50.826
of
00:16:50.970 --> 00:16:52.164
kind of balance out your load,
00:16:52.657 --> 00:16:55.206
Um, and knowing that
00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.570
that and sharing that, just, you know, from my mistakes or from my lessons, I,
00:17:00.726 --> 00:17:02.706
able to share that with other survivors.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.619
that's really good.
00:17:04.619 --> 00:17:07.394
I'm gonna take a quick little break and just remind our listeners.
00:17:08.085 --> 00:17:17.174
To go ahead and click that like button, click that follow button, click that share button, just click all the buttons that have thumbs up and we'll go from there.
00:17:17.565 --> 00:17:24.914
But I was gonna say, I mean, I think that is so true, and I love that you recognize that in yourself and that you're sharing that with others.
00:17:25.575 --> 00:17:37.244
'cause I know once I finally got back to being normal and thought everything was good, we started the podcast, I wanna say 10 to 12 years after my stroke.
00:17:37.244 --> 00:17:37.575
And.
00:17:38.174 --> 00:17:43.755
The first day we did the podcast'cause just the way that things worked and it was a free thing.
00:17:43.755 --> 00:17:45.255
Someone was doing everything for us.
00:17:45.255 --> 00:17:45.914
In the beginning.
00:17:46.454 --> 00:17:51.105
We did like five podcasts in that first day, back to back to back to back.
00:17:51.134 --> 00:17:54.075
I mean, I was a corporate trainer, so I was used to talking all day.
00:17:54.164 --> 00:17:56.865
I don't mean I don't, I'm used to talking all day regardless.
00:17:56.865 --> 00:17:57.765
I'm happy to do that.
00:17:58.095 --> 00:18:06.404
But at the end of that day, I went home and took the longest nap before bed'cause I was so mentally drained and.
00:18:06.944 --> 00:18:07.904
Everything about me.
00:18:07.904 --> 00:18:10.634
I, my body hurt, my brain hurt.
00:18:10.815 --> 00:18:19.065
I just, I was like, I, that was so much to do, and it's one of those things that I guess people take for granted in a normal day.
00:18:19.065 --> 00:18:21.765
That there's, there's, you know, they're fine.
00:18:21.765 --> 00:18:30.075
But we have found that in the clubhouse that we tell new survivors, if you can't make it the full whole day, the, in the beginning, not a big deal.
00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:37.950
You're here to work and do as much as you can do, and if after five hours you go, no, I need to, or three hours I need to go home.
00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:42.839
Or we do have a room that has, we have a quiet room that has recliners.
00:18:43.049 --> 00:18:48.900
If you need to go take a 15 minute break, no questions asked, go ahead.
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:53.910
So it's, that's one of those, yeah, that I think a lot of people don't realize.
00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:56.279
Again, it's that you look fine.
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:57.269
Why are you tired?
00:18:57.509 --> 00:18:59.069
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.070 --> 00:18:59.080
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.080 --> 00:18:59.244
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.557 --> 00:19:00.007
Or,
00:19:00.075 --> 00:19:00.674
Yeah.
00:19:00.674 --> 00:19:02.805
Um, I used to have, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:19:02.805 --> 00:19:05.414
I used to have, um, um,
00:19:05.497 --> 00:19:05.616
a
00:19:05.684 --> 00:19:07.994
a lot of TIAs, uh,
00:19:08.106 --> 00:19:08.257
the
00:19:08.384 --> 00:19:09.555
from the age of four,
00:19:09.636 --> 00:19:10.146
um,
00:19:10.154 --> 00:19:11.255
um, because I have Moyamoya
00:19:11.521 --> 00:19:11.602
syndrome,
00:19:11.894 --> 00:19:12.255
syndrome,
00:19:12.592 --> 00:19:13.162
Um,
00:19:13.724 --> 00:19:15.045
and, uh,
00:19:15.201 --> 00:19:16.432
I, you know,
00:19:16.575 --> 00:19:26.144
you know, in the office, um, you know, once I was in my early twenties and on, um, prior to my surgeries and prior to the stroke, um,
00:19:26.842 --> 00:19:27.412
you know, I
00:19:27.494 --> 00:19:28.839
I would have a TIA.
00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:31.319
And I would have to leave work.
00:19:31.701 --> 00:19:32.481
and I
00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:36.930
I said I had a really bad headache, and
00:19:37.221 --> 00:19:38.511
my coworkers would look
00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:40.019
would look at me and say,
00:19:40.071 --> 00:19:40.221
have
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.990
I have never gone home'cause I've had a headache.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.789
I'm like, oh, you've never had one of these.
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:45.089
Right.
00:19:45.741 --> 00:19:46.791
Um, and so,
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.029
and so, yeah, absolutely.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.819
Mm-hmm.
00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:54.269
So what is a TIA again, just to elaborate.
00:19:54.291 --> 00:19:55.402
is ischemic attack.
00:19:55.402 --> 00:19:55.582
It's
00:19:55.589 --> 00:19:55.859
attack, stroke.
00:19:55.942 --> 00:19:56.332
stroke.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:58.170
Mm-hmm.
00:19:58.171 --> 00:19:58.181
Yeah.
00:19:58.181 --> 00:19:58.191
Yeah.
00:19:58.724 --> 00:19:59.625
So, wow.
00:20:00.045 --> 00:20:01.575
Especially invisible injury.
00:20:02.144 --> 00:20:03.105
I look invisible.
00:20:03.105 --> 00:20:05.265
A lot of people are like, you don't look like you have brain injury.
00:20:05.295 --> 00:20:06.855
I'm like, well, I do.
00:20:06.855 --> 00:20:12.464
And then sometimes my day too, I go home and I'm tired, like I will skip dinner and everything.
00:20:12.464 --> 00:20:14.174
I'll be like straight to bed.
00:20:14.204 --> 00:20:17.025
Then I'll wake up, I'm like, oh, it's the next day.
00:20:17.414 --> 00:20:19.125
Let me recharge my battery.
00:20:19.454 --> 00:20:19.845
Right.
00:20:19.845 --> 00:20:20.265
Yeah.
00:20:20.744 --> 00:20:24.375
Well, um, I know you said that you.
00:20:25.049 --> 00:20:29.204
Had a track career and you attempted or thought about, I know, I'm, I'm, I know, I know.
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:33.089
But so what do you do for fun outside of work?
00:20:33.089 --> 00:20:37.025
Do you still like to run or jog or, I mean, what do you do to relax after a long day?
00:20:37.267 --> 00:20:38.527
Oh, I do
00:20:38.664 --> 00:20:39.184
I do not
00:20:39.846 --> 00:20:40.836
Um, do
00:20:40.884 --> 00:20:42.944
do anything faster than walking
00:20:43.116 --> 00:20:43.686
I have to.
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:45.045
Unless I do mm-hmm.
00:20:45.595 --> 00:20:45.884
Fair.
00:20:45.997 --> 00:20:47.076
sometimes I, I
00:20:47.164 --> 00:20:48.900
i, I run after the dog
00:20:49.297 --> 00:20:53.317
a, you know, from a scooter, um, uh,
00:20:53.369 --> 00:20:53.964
uh, I.
00:20:54.307 --> 00:20:54.636
you know, I'll
00:20:54.914 --> 00:20:56.174
i'll listen to music.
00:20:56.174 --> 00:20:56.234
Um,
00:20:56.797 --> 00:20:57.787
I will,
00:20:58.125 --> 00:20:58.184
i'll,
00:20:58.297 --> 00:20:58.807
um,
00:20:58.815 --> 00:21:01.365
um, you know, sometimes if I have
00:21:01.446 --> 00:21:02.497
energy, I will
00:21:02.505 --> 00:21:04.904
i'll binge watch some Netflix.
00:21:05.257 --> 00:21:06.757
Um, but I'll,
00:21:06.765 --> 00:21:07.484
i'll, I'll
00:21:07.596 --> 00:21:07.656
the
00:21:07.855 --> 00:21:08.414
snuggle with the dog,
00:21:08.586 --> 00:21:09.126
Usually,
00:21:09.194 --> 00:21:09.900
but yeah, that,
00:21:09.997 --> 00:21:10.386
favorite
00:21:10.515 --> 00:21:10.619
be good.
00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:11.414
A good thing to do.
00:21:11.414 --> 00:21:11.565
Yeah.
00:21:12.015 --> 00:21:17.244
I would say I'm a firm believer in there's no need to run unless someone's chasing you.
00:21:17.586 --> 00:21:18.067
Yeah.
00:21:20.234 --> 00:21:24.434
I mean, I'll leave it at that, but yeah, even when I was healthy, I was not a runner.
00:21:26.047 --> 00:21:26.467
When I'm
00:21:26.565 --> 00:21:28.845
when I'm late to an appointment
00:21:28.957 --> 00:21:29.136
my
00:21:29.325 --> 00:21:32.115
day to my chiropractor, he's a couple blocks away.
00:21:32.204 --> 00:21:32.325
Mm-hmm.
00:21:32.467 --> 00:21:33.636
try to, you
00:21:33.644 --> 00:21:35.984
to, you know, pick up my feet and go,
00:21:36.037 --> 00:21:36.336
I've
00:21:36.345 --> 00:21:39.345
but I've found that I can run run the, when
00:21:39.366 --> 00:21:39.696
something
00:21:39.704 --> 00:21:42.105
it's something that I really am excited about,
00:21:42.277 --> 00:21:42.666
if it's
00:21:42.674 --> 00:21:43.934
but if it's something that's
00:21:43.987 --> 00:21:45.007
of, you know,
00:21:45.105 --> 00:21:48.105
you know, boring or monotonous or, you know,
00:21:48.126 --> 00:21:48.576
um,
00:21:48.615 --> 00:21:52.484
um, I can't just mechanically pick out my feet, the.
00:21:52.686 --> 00:21:52.696
to.
00:21:53.535 --> 00:22:00.674
Yeah, I, I can't, I still have to wear an a AFO on the left leg, so my knee, my leg never came back.
00:22:00.674 --> 00:22:04.335
So I, I don't walk normal, so running is just not an option.
00:22:05.684 --> 00:22:05.984
Mm-hmm.
00:22:06.345 --> 00:22:16.515
But I can kinda walk a little fast, but it doesn't help that I have little legs too, you know, all four foot 11 of me never could walk very fast, so.
00:22:17.025 --> 00:22:17.174
Hmm.
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:23.730
So what's one piece of advice you would like to leave with our listeners?
00:22:25.146 --> 00:22:27.576
one, um, big piece.
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:29.880
and, um, I think you
00:22:29.916 --> 00:22:30.277
talked
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.589
talked about it, um, on your pod,
00:22:32.737 --> 00:22:33.156
um,
00:22:33.269 --> 00:22:34.500
um, or
00:22:34.642 --> 00:22:37.488
Is that all stroke survivors?
00:22:37.551 --> 00:22:45.172
You know, You know, I mean, generally they're told that you have you have six months after, after the stroke,
00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:47.045
stroke, um, that you can.
00:22:47.332 --> 00:22:47.781
you know,
00:22:48.015 --> 00:22:51.674
know, recovered, or that you have the most neuroplasticity,
00:22:51.723 --> 00:22:52.163
after 6 months.
00:22:52.673 --> 00:22:53.124
Um,
00:22:53.183 --> 00:22:56.835
um, that may be the case, although,
00:22:56.902 --> 00:22:57.082
that
00:22:57.105 --> 00:23:00.974
um, that doesn't mean that healing or recovery stops.
00:23:01.184 --> 00:23:04.267
Um, I, Things
00:23:04.394 --> 00:23:05.625
things have come back
00:23:06.426 --> 00:23:07.267
years
00:23:07.730 --> 00:23:07.890
after,
00:23:07.926 --> 00:23:08.616
my stroke.
00:23:09.096 --> 00:23:09.396
Um,
00:23:09.555 --> 00:23:11.144
um, as long as you,
00:23:11.406 --> 00:23:12.481
um, you know, you,
00:23:12.494 --> 00:23:12.974
you know, you
00:23:13.176 --> 00:23:13.237
of
00:23:13.605 --> 00:23:17.374
kind of improve that by continuing work on things or, you know,
00:23:17.376 --> 00:23:19.146
know, um, if you
00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:22.740
if you brush your teeth, stay with your non-dominant hand,
00:23:22.926 --> 00:23:23.646
maybe,
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.130
be, you know, rewire your brain,
00:23:26.166 --> 00:23:26.527
um,
00:23:26.670 --> 00:23:28.829
um, to have more connection.
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:29.640
And,
00:23:29.886 --> 00:23:30.037
I
00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:36.575
um, I just wanna let people know that they shouldn't get discouraged if they only think that they got the six months to
00:23:36.636 --> 00:23:36.876
get
00:23:37.115 --> 00:23:37.815
get things done.
00:23:37.926 --> 00:23:38.826
That, that there
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.200
That there is a lot longer.
00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:41.549
Yeah, I totally agree.
00:23:41.549 --> 00:23:41.789
Yes.
00:23:41.789 --> 00:23:42.960
And we do say that a lot.
00:23:43.779 --> 00:23:45.855
Brain injury is lifelong recovery.
00:23:45.855 --> 00:23:51.224
And we have, we're fortunate enough to have our life to continue to work on recovery.
00:23:51.224 --> 00:23:51.765
And I agree.
00:23:51.765 --> 00:23:56.265
I see 16 years later I can still see progress being made.
00:23:56.295 --> 00:24:00.075
Maybe, you know, not like leaps and bounds progress, but progress.
00:24:00.555 --> 00:24:09.734
So, um, is there anything that you feel like we should have asked you that we haven't covered yet that you would like to add in?
00:24:17.196 --> 00:24:18.666
Not that I can think of really.
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:19.650
Okay.
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:23.759
Um, well then I'm gonna say thank you, Judy.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:28.890
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and words of wisdom and keep helping other survivors out there.
00:24:29.557 --> 00:24:30.307
Absolutely.
00:24:30.307 --> 00:24:30.396
I
00:24:30.509 --> 00:24:31.209
I love doing it.
00:24:31.219 --> 00:24:31.578
Thank
00:24:31.751 --> 00:24:32.092
so much.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:32.440
so much.
00:24:32.565 --> 00:24:33.525
Thank you so much.
00:24:33.525 --> 00:24:33.825
You're welcome.
00:24:34.005 --> 00:24:36.555
And thanks to all our listeners for listening.
00:24:36.674 --> 00:24:41.535
And remember, you can find our new episodes on all your favorite platforms.
00:24:41.625 --> 00:24:42.525
Until next time.
00:24:43.085 --> 00:24:43.954
Until next time.
00:24:47.301 --> 00:25:00.501
We hope you've enjoyed listening to BIND Waves and continue to support Brain Injury Network in our nonprofit mission, we support brain injury survivors as they reconnect into life, the community, and the workplace.
00:25:01.251 --> 00:25:04.821
And we couldn't do that without great listeners like you.
00:25:05.632 --> 00:25:08.031
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00:25:08.692 --> 00:25:14.301
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00:25:14.886 --> 00:25:20.436
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00:25:21.307 --> 00:25:36.007
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00:25:37.717 --> 00:25:39.037
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00:25:40.957 --> 00:25:42.031
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