speaker-0: Anthony chapter 3 Paul says, But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people. my goodness. But as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, verse two, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And s even now you're not yet ready. For you are still of the flesh for while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean it's very real, isn't it? I I don't think we need an army of learned theologians to unpack this. we're like the world's people. I'm I'm tempted to say it sounds awfully like the Church Fathers from the second century to the council, through the council. It was strife, it was argumentation, excommunication. Then the Emperor gets involved.
speaker-0: my goodness.
speaker-1: He has to step in and say settle these issues. This is surely an ocean away from scripture.
speaker-0: Young my goodness.
speaker-1: If you can't see the difference between all that fighting and although they do have problems here, Paul is there to settle the issues.
speaker-0: Absolutely. I really think is it's really profound that Paul has been talking about the wisdom of God as made known to us by Christ.
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: And so now we have the mind of Christ, which means by extension then we have the mind of God. Exactly. But But now any more than us having the mind of Christ makes us Christ. You know what it's it doesn't work. But
speaker-1: No, it's not it's not difficult.
speaker-0: this is a a powerful thought, Anthony. I think when you when he is he's taking these people to task in a very severe way by saying, I can't address you as spiritual people. my goodness. That's incredible.
speaker-1: It is incredible. He's he's a father figure, isn't he? The father is the teacher. He's treating these people as children, and they deserve to be treated as children.
speaker-0: And he says you're he says you're not ready for solid food, have to feed you with milk as as you would a baby, as you would an infant.
speaker-1: What would you say to the current situation? my way. I came and I saw you've got fifteen hundred different churches here. Why what's going on? I thought there was one faith, one judgment, one mind of Christ. Exact get it together, you guys. Yes. Every imaginable permutation is not right. It's a judgment upon our present situation,
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: I think.
speaker-0: You know, I w I was just thinking this too, Anthony, a lot of times I think there's the misconception that if people have spiritual gifts or abilities, that means that they are spiritual. And
speaker-1: Yeah, it's not necessary.
speaker-0: that's not necessarily so. Paul is going to be writing in this letter these people at Call Ranch
speaker-1: Yeah, it says
speaker-0: actually I suppose spoke in tongues more than anybody else we know about in the all the New Testament. And yet he's writing to those people and saying I can't talk to you like to spiritual people. You're
speaker-1: That is amazing.
speaker-0: you know, that so their speaking in tongues didn't mark them as spiritual. That's right.
speaker-1: Exactly.
speaker-0: And their speaking in tongues didn't mean that that they were on on the right track spiritually speaking.
speaker-1: You can also say that a miracle in itself doesn't prove anything. You know, you know so and so is working these extraordinary miracles. Yes, but you still have to discern because the devil does
speaker-0: Absolutely. Sure.
speaker-1: he can mimic all of these things.
speaker-0: It's interesting here now. Paul is not going to in the course of the we've read ahead. So but Paul is not going to challenge these people at any point in the book and say, all you're speaking in tongues is false. He's not going to say, your your prophecy is false. No, they were true. Paul never challenges that, but he does challenge this that that meant that they were spiritual. They weren't. They were very fleshly, even though they
speaker-1: Yes, he said in the early in the first chapter there, you ha you lack no gift, as you wait for the second coming, you're not without these gifts. And they are they're a challenge to us too, because they are they cannot be dismissed, mm-hmm. They're part of the package, but they'd better be accompanied though, to be valid by truth.
speaker-0: And for people who whether who would claim spiritual gifts and abilities, maybe you do have it. But that still doesn't mean you're spiritual. That still doesn't mean you have the mind of Christ or the wisdom of God in Christ.
speaker-1: The opposite error, of course, is to try to scrutch gifts. Yeah and not have them. Yeah. That's that's very very
speaker-0: It's an overswing it's
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-0: yeah. So but we'll be seeing more of that. But it's interesting that I've I've run into this and particularly my background, people feel like, but I speak in tongues, so that means God is with me. Yes and so therefore I'm I'm okay.
speaker-1: No that's
speaker-0: That doesn't get it. These these people at Corinth spoke in tongues and other gifts were among them, certainly. And Paul doesn't challenge the validity of that, but he does challenge their spirituality. It doesn't mean they're spiritual. They're fleshly people.
speaker-1: And the extreme of that, since you mentioned it, because we do encounter people like that, who've been told that because they're not speaking in languages, you know, they're not exercising that gift, they should or could do it. And everybody should or could do it. Then they're very depressed because they're hoping to be spiritual and they've been told the only sign of your speaking
speaker-0: It's this sort of thing.
speaker-1: in languages. Now that is a very great cruelty to me.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's it's an interesting thought then that that not speaking in tongues is not a sign of spirituality to them. But on the other hand, speaking in tongues is not a sign that that someone is
speaker-1: It is
speaker-0: spiritual. Not of itself. That's right.
speaker-1: Yeah, we've got to get some balance there. We have to also, I think, tolerate people's different backgrounds in those regards, not make these divisive, but they have become divisive. When you say that the speaking in languages as I would I I think, you know, it's certainly these ar are languages that are recognizable. If you say that if you don't do this, you aren't spiritual that's the the two classes.
speaker-0: Yeah. Well system is going to learn later on that do all speak with tongues? No, so that means some are doomed to not be spiritual, then they're out of this. How does this work?
speaker-1: well. We'll have fun with that. We're coming from slightly different backgrounds in that area, but we've learned to coexist very nicely on all of that.
speaker-0: Well I do think it's interesting that at this juncture Paul is announcing to the church in a very large way I can't call in spite of the gifts that were
speaker-1: spiritual. No, that's right. Right. Exactly right. No, that that's a profoundly important point, it really is. And he's stressing the wisdom and the mind of Christ. You've got to have that basis.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-1: Yeah, I no, it's that's a great point. I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but that is true. Yes. But
speaker-0: Verse verse five. What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one. And each will receive his wages according to his labor, for we are God's fellow workers, your God's field, your God's building.
speaker-1: No, well in this parable of the soa there, I think the watering image, the agricultural image of building one. In my notes here I I noted that when it says we are one, right? The one who plants and the one who water are one. That's to say they're one in mind and purpose. That's exactly the same expression as John ten thirty, I and the Father are one. That nails that one. Yeah. We're not one God. We have the same purpose. We're all working at the same job. That's beautiful. I mean that's very easy, isn't it?
speaker-0: It's really quite lovely, isn't it? It's beautiful.
speaker-1: Delightfully straightforward, yes. So
speaker-0: Yes. But and and by being self deprecating I guess you could say, Paul is helping the point to arise even stronger that this is all of God, this is all of Christ, not of us. And
speaker-1: Yes. marvelous image. You are God's field and his building. Two images there. The agricultural one and the architectural one that he's going to develop.
speaker-0: Yeah, he's he's in effect announcing the next next set of
speaker-1: notes on all this before you I I don't know if he did or is it just his mind sheer
speaker-0: I don't know.
speaker-1: inspiration. I don't know we can find out one day how
speaker-0: I know. I we'll we'll have to be patient and wait, but I would love to talk to him about some of these things.
speaker-1: Reminds you of that text there in the Psalms, how ho how I love your Torah, your Lord. This
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: is good stuff. I I can I can take more of this, you know. I'm lo I'm loving this. Because it's so sound and sane and sensible and a real criticism o of our current religious scene, which has gone horrible
speaker-0: Mm. my land, yes. Okay, that's ten. Verse ten, according to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder, I laid a foundation. And someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. Verse 11, for no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid. Yes. Which is Jesus Christ. Yes. Which is Jesus the Messiah. He himself exactly is in this picture, he is the foundation.
speaker-1: Well that's Matt Matthew sixteen, says in on that
speaker-0: my legs.
speaker-1: namely recognition that Jesus is not God, but he's inside
speaker-0: Yeah, the yeah.
speaker-1: on that rock solid confession I will build my church.
speaker-0: Wow, I love it. So and isn't that interesting the you s we see these pictures in in somewhat different ways, but Jesus is the builder in Matthew sixteen. Yes. And the the foundation is about him. Here we find that Paul is actually making Jesus equivalent to the foundation.
speaker-1: nice, interesting, very practical ways to speak there because they knew about building, they knew about planting, right, in that society. So you use that all the time.
speaker-0: So Anthony he's he's laid this before us. There is this foundation, it's Jesus Christ, but others will build on that foundation then.
speaker-1: More than one person involved then in a church enterprise. Yes. Very important. And then the day of judgment, you're about to read it there, I think. He's gonna reveal it. So it all looks towards that Acts seventeen thirty one. The day has come when God's gonna judge us by the standards set by Jesus. Yes.
speaker-0: Yes, yes.
speaker-1: He's got a calendar date lined up, so that's what we keep an eye on. Is it
speaker-0: Yeah that's right. Yeah. He is a he is determined today. He's appointed today, yeah, like that. Verse twelve. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, or ha wood, hay or straw, each one's work will become manifest. Mm-hmm. For the day will disclose it because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. Verse 14, if the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. On the other hand, verse 15, if anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. Wow.
speaker-1: Absolutely. I think people misinterpret this passage to mean their personal salvation. So about church planting here. You can't just do nothing in your Christian life and expect to be saved, period. Yeah, they're gonna suffer loss if it isn't a successful project. Absolutely. But we're not talking about individual personal salvation here, I think. I it's a special category.
speaker-0: I think maybe notice that that Paul is referencing different kinds of materials, yes. Some very precious, mm, some very valuable, others like wood, hay, you might not want to be building with hay or with straw. those things would be so flammable. Yes.
speaker-1: Good point.
speaker-0: And maybe his point is then, Anthony that The day's gonna come when there's gonna be a fire or there's gonna become a tragedy that something's going to come to this building. And when it does, if you've been building with materials that are flammable and not the best not durable, not good, then you're gonna lose what you've done. You each fellow is building, I suppose. Right. Puts the same kind of energy into it, one with straw, one with hay, one with wood, and another is using precious stones and things that would last. Exactly. so that's an interesting thing. but both builders are I suppose well intended. because he says you know, they're they're both gonna make it, but the work will not endure for the one who builds with
speaker-1: would be the symbol of trial, wouldn't it? Yes. Yes. Under under the pressure of trial, the that badly constructed work that must be not going to succeed. Absolutely. But what this is not saying is that you can put up your hand to get saved and build nothing at all on that and still be saved. That's right. He says he himself will still be saved. But he's talking about a church planting
speaker-0: Someone goes into that effort, yeah. Exactly.
speaker-1: Very important distinction, I think. Yeah.
speaker-0: Very good then. You know, ev each person should think about that in their lives. I think there might be even we could by extend that thought a little bit even to our our lives in other ways as we should conduct yeah anything that we're doing in the name of the Lord. And as Christians we we want to be building carefully and wisely.
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: Verse sixteen, do you not know that you are God's temple? Yes. And that God's Spirit dwells in you. Verse seventeen, if anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
speaker-1: Another image then, not just a building but a holy building, a temple. Yeah. All sorts of snapshots to get the point from different images. I make much of the point here that when he introduces this temple image, he doesn't use the definite article. Don't you understand you are a temple of God? I make that distinction because in Second Thessalonians two he talks about the Antichrist saying in the temple, which probably because of the article there, he's not talking about the church there, I think. Now it's true that f following the introduction where he says a temple of God, he can then go on to speak of you as the temple of
speaker-0: Yeah, right.
speaker-1: anaphoric article to use the technical term. But when he says in Second Thessalonians two that the Antichrist will stand in the temple of God, most likely he's not talking metaphorically there, right? It's a nice point actually. I I've enjoyed that point. But we are the t we are a temple of God, no question. We are to be God's dwelling place. That's quite a challenge, isn't it?
speaker-0: you are God's temple. You know, when you think about the example he's laid out then he's got three different persons he's focusing on. One fellow is a builder who builds wisely with apparently durable materials, good materials, and it's gonna last. the second fellow he brings to our attention is the fellow who maybe is well intended, but he's not building wisely. He's building with what hay, wooden stubble and stuff. You know this is not what would be intended for a good durable building. But now he's introduced a third person. The first two each will be saved because they're seeking to do good f for for it's sort of the Romans fourteen then. But this third person, this is different. This is a person who comes to destroy the temple. Now that fellow, on the other hand, he doesn't fit in either one of the other the one who who comes in and does harm or damage that person will not be saved. I think they're going to have judgment before them before.
speaker-1: You said every actually everybody's well most people are well intentioned. Yes. Very few people get up in the morning and say, Well, I I'm really going to deceive this people deceive. Right. They mean well, but they may be very careless in their preparation. Yes. And you can lose a reward here. So I there's a text in John that's never used in the epistles where it says, and I don't know the verse offhand, it says that we may gain a full reward. So that means you can gain less than a full reward
speaker-0: Yes, that's good.
speaker-1: for the full reward. That's the text I don't hear mentioned. So you can suffer injury, you you're gonna be saved yourself by the skin of your teeth. Yes, yes. Even if you don't build wisely. But it's it's strictly this limited area of church planting rather than just getting saved or not getting saved. I th I think so.
speaker-0: Thank you.
speaker-1: I think that must be it. Otherwise it becomes a kind of once saved, always saved idea which contradicts everything else in
speaker-0: Makes no sense. Yeah. but then this this soul that comes along with ill will and and
speaker-1: Yes, that's right.
speaker-0: they may be driven, they may think in their minds they're doing well, but if they're destroyed that's another story.
speaker-1: Sure now.
speaker-0: That's another story. For whatever their reason, yeah. So wow.
speaker-1: So then you get to a squat eighteen, isn't it? Yes.
speaker-0: eighteen, let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. A fool according to the way this age would think.
speaker-1: It's a vivid way of saying it. It strikes the brain, you know, let him be be a fool. Suppose telling us to be fools? Well yes. In that context
speaker-0: In that sense, yeah.
speaker-1: the opposite of godly wisdom is
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: foolishness. Here is he's gonna say that very thing.
speaker-0: Verse 19, for the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, He catches the wise in their craftiness. And again, the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise that they are futile. So let no one boast in men. That's back to that don't boast business again, do I think? Let no one boast in men. For all things are yours. I love this verse. So whether they are Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world, they're all yours. Isn't this wonderful? This is this is lovely. And he says, Or the world or life or death or the present or the future, all are yours. And love this concluding verse, this chapter. And you are Christ's that is you belong to Christ and Christ is God's. He belongs to God.
speaker-1: That's straightforward.
speaker-0: This this deserving of a little charismatic moment.
speaker-1: What is it? A charismatic twirl.
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-1: Why not? You feel like getting up and dancing at church at that point. No, it is it is so c clear,
speaker-0: my goodness.
speaker-1: isn't it? I love that, yes. You own everything. that's that Jeremiah twenty seven five we did this morning, you know. God made the heavens and the earth, all the animals, and he's going to give the whole thing the
speaker-0: No, yes.
speaker-1: whole shooting match, I we used to us say in English. The whole kit gabooodle.
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-1: gives it to the one either the one that God decides he is pleased to give it to, or the one that is pleasing in God's eye. You own the whole thing. It's tremendous stuff.
speaker-0: I love that. And then notice too the the language is is very carefully put. He just says and you're Christ's and Christ is God. He doesn't say that. He said Christ is God belongs to God in the same sense we belong to Christ. And Absolutely
speaker-1: The wonderful subordination there to use the technical term. Yeah, I mean to say that Christ is God. You know, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Ramsay X, he in the book I've got it over there, he says, you know, Jesus did not claim deity for himself.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: That's the opening statement in chapter two about Jesus and God. Jesus I hope everybody in the Church of England is listening to this, Jesus did not claim deity for himself. In nineteen eighty two, a whole thirty one out of thirty nine bishops in the Church of England said, You don't have to believe that Jesus is God to be a member of Archer. Relax,
speaker-0: That's wonderful.
speaker-1: yes. Jesus is not God. God was in Christ, not God was Christ.
speaker-0: Yes, yes, yes.
speaker-1: The Bible then is about God and man, not about God and God, much less about God and God and God.
speaker-0: Yes, yes.
speaker-1: That's easy. God and man, Psalm one hundred and ten, right.
speaker-0: And Jesus then the representative man for us. That's
speaker-1: Exactly. The ideal man, the model man, the pioneer of our salvation. It really it coheres so well, doesn't it? See I know that I can say I was there I was in the Church of England. Maybe I wasn't listening well, but I didn't understand any of this. We didn't talk about it. If we had talked If we'd given a Bible verse, suppose we go to a party, dinner party, and you say, I believe in the resurrection, we'd have been si what's the word, sidelined immediately. It's an American fanatic. Believe me, that was the case. You don't quote Bible verses in polite society.
speaker-0: my goodness. Yeah.
speaker-1: But I mean we're reading this stuff with delight. You're not not reading this 'cause we're trying to be pious.
speaker-0: Isn't it it's just wonderful. Yeah.
speaker-1: It's a lifting sound like beautiful music.
speaker-0: Well let's see you know, I was just thinking about this then, Anthony, isn't what Paul has done, he begins by announcing as he does who God is and and who Paul is and who Jesus is, of course, the people Christ. Yes. He gives thanks, he gives thanks for the people and he lifts them up wonderfully before he begins to deal now with their problems. Yes, that's right. Now I like that. He tends to he he can't address your problem too quickly. He in his mind I gotta let you know by the way, you're God's people and how wonderful this is.
speaker-1: No love.
speaker-0: Now we're gonna talk about your butt
speaker-1: Yeah. It's the essence of good diplomacy
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: and style, how to deal with people. He's a modest leader of people this far.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean it's very real, isn't it? I I don't think we need an army of learned theologians to unpack this. we're like the world's people. I'm I'm tempted to say it sounds awfully like the Church Fathers from the second century to the council, through the council. It was strife, it was argumentation, excommunication. Then the Emperor gets involved.
speaker-0: my goodness.
speaker-1: He has to step in and say settle these issues. This is surely an ocean away from scripture.
speaker-0: Young my goodness.
speaker-1: If you can't see the difference between all that fighting and although they do have problems here, Paul is there to settle the issues.
speaker-0: Absolutely. I really think is it's really profound that Paul has been talking about the wisdom of God as made known to us by Christ.
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: And so now we have the mind of Christ, which means by extension then we have the mind of God. Exactly. But But now any more than us having the mind of Christ makes us Christ. You know what it's it doesn't work. But
speaker-1: No, it's not it's not difficult.
speaker-0: this is a a powerful thought, Anthony. I think when you when he is he's taking these people to task in a very severe way by saying, I can't address you as spiritual people. my goodness. That's incredible.
speaker-1: It is incredible. He's he's a father figure, isn't he? The father is the teacher. He's treating these people as children, and they deserve to be treated as children.
speaker-0: And he says you're he says you're not ready for solid food, have to feed you with milk as as you would a baby, as you would an infant.
speaker-1: What would you say to the current situation? my way. I came and I saw you've got fifteen hundred different churches here. Why what's going on? I thought there was one faith, one judgment, one mind of Christ. Exact get it together, you guys. Yes. Every imaginable permutation is not right. It's a judgment upon our present situation,
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: I think.
speaker-0: You know, I w I was just thinking this too, Anthony, a lot of times I think there's the misconception that if people have spiritual gifts or abilities, that means that they are spiritual. And
speaker-1: Yeah, it's not necessary.
speaker-0: that's not necessarily so. Paul is going to be writing in this letter these people at Call Ranch
speaker-1: Yeah, it says
speaker-0: actually I suppose spoke in tongues more than anybody else we know about in the all the New Testament. And yet he's writing to those people and saying I can't talk to you like to spiritual people. You're
speaker-1: That is amazing.
speaker-0: you know, that so their speaking in tongues didn't mark them as spiritual. That's right.
speaker-1: Exactly.
speaker-0: And their speaking in tongues didn't mean that that they were on on the right track spiritually speaking.
speaker-1: You can also say that a miracle in itself doesn't prove anything. You know, you know so and so is working these extraordinary miracles. Yes, but you still have to discern because the devil does
speaker-0: Absolutely. Sure.
speaker-1: he can mimic all of these things.
speaker-0: It's interesting here now. Paul is not going to in the course of the we've read ahead. So but Paul is not going to challenge these people at any point in the book and say, all you're speaking in tongues is false. He's not going to say, your your prophecy is false. No, they were true. Paul never challenges that, but he does challenge this that that meant that they were spiritual. They weren't. They were very fleshly, even though they
speaker-1: Yes, he said in the early in the first chapter there, you ha you lack no gift, as you wait for the second coming, you're not without these gifts. And they are they're a challenge to us too, because they are they cannot be dismissed, mm-hmm. They're part of the package, but they'd better be accompanied though, to be valid by truth.
speaker-0: And for people who whether who would claim spiritual gifts and abilities, maybe you do have it. But that still doesn't mean you're spiritual. That still doesn't mean you have the mind of Christ or the wisdom of God in Christ.
speaker-1: The opposite error, of course, is to try to scrutch gifts. Yeah and not have them. Yeah. That's that's very very
speaker-0: It's an overswing it's
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-0: yeah. So but we'll be seeing more of that. But it's interesting that I've I've run into this and particularly my background, people feel like, but I speak in tongues, so that means God is with me. Yes and so therefore I'm I'm okay.
speaker-1: No that's
speaker-0: That doesn't get it. These these people at Corinth spoke in tongues and other gifts were among them, certainly. And Paul doesn't challenge the validity of that, but he does challenge their spirituality. It doesn't mean they're spiritual. They're fleshly people.
speaker-1: And the extreme of that, since you mentioned it, because we do encounter people like that, who've been told that because they're not speaking in languages, you know, they're not exercising that gift, they should or could do it. And everybody should or could do it. Then they're very depressed because they're hoping to be spiritual and they've been told the only sign of your speaking
speaker-0: It's this sort of thing.
speaker-1: in languages. Now that is a very great cruelty to me.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's it's an interesting thought then that that not speaking in tongues is not a sign of spirituality to them. But on the other hand, speaking in tongues is not a sign that that someone is
speaker-1: It is
speaker-0: spiritual. Not of itself. That's right.
speaker-1: Yeah, we've got to get some balance there. We have to also, I think, tolerate people's different backgrounds in those regards, not make these divisive, but they have become divisive. When you say that the speaking in languages as I would I I think, you know, it's certainly these ar are languages that are recognizable. If you say that if you don't do this, you aren't spiritual that's the the two classes.
speaker-0: Yeah. Well system is going to learn later on that do all speak with tongues? No, so that means some are doomed to not be spiritual, then they're out of this. How does this work?
speaker-1: well. We'll have fun with that. We're coming from slightly different backgrounds in that area, but we've learned to coexist very nicely on all of that.
speaker-0: Well I do think it's interesting that at this juncture Paul is announcing to the church in a very large way I can't call in spite of the gifts that were
speaker-1: spiritual. No, that's right. Right. Exactly right. No, that that's a profoundly important point, it really is. And he's stressing the wisdom and the mind of Christ. You've got to have that basis.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-1: Yeah, I no, it's that's a great point. I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but that is true. Yes. But
speaker-0: Verse verse five. What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one. And each will receive his wages according to his labor, for we are God's fellow workers, your God's field, your God's building.
speaker-1: No, well in this parable of the soa there, I think the watering image, the agricultural image of building one. In my notes here I I noted that when it says we are one, right? The one who plants and the one who water are one. That's to say they're one in mind and purpose. That's exactly the same expression as John ten thirty, I and the Father are one. That nails that one. Yeah. We're not one God. We have the same purpose. We're all working at the same job. That's beautiful. I mean that's very easy, isn't it?
speaker-0: It's really quite lovely, isn't it? It's beautiful.
speaker-1: Delightfully straightforward, yes. So
speaker-0: Yes. But and and by being self deprecating I guess you could say, Paul is helping the point to arise even stronger that this is all of God, this is all of Christ, not of us. And
speaker-1: Yes. marvelous image. You are God's field and his building. Two images there. The agricultural one and the architectural one that he's going to develop.
speaker-0: Yeah, he's he's in effect announcing the next next set of
speaker-1: notes on all this before you I I don't know if he did or is it just his mind sheer
speaker-0: I don't know.
speaker-1: inspiration. I don't know we can find out one day how
speaker-0: I know. I we'll we'll have to be patient and wait, but I would love to talk to him about some of these things.
speaker-1: Reminds you of that text there in the Psalms, how ho how I love your Torah, your Lord. This
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: is good stuff. I I can I can take more of this, you know. I'm lo I'm loving this. Because it's so sound and sane and sensible and a real criticism o of our current religious scene, which has gone horrible
speaker-0: Mm. my land, yes. Okay, that's ten. Verse ten, according to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder, I laid a foundation. And someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. Verse 11, for no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid. Yes. Which is Jesus Christ. Yes. Which is Jesus the Messiah. He himself exactly is in this picture, he is the foundation.
speaker-1: Well that's Matt Matthew sixteen, says in on that
speaker-0: my legs.
speaker-1: namely recognition that Jesus is not God, but he's inside
speaker-0: Yeah, the yeah.
speaker-1: on that rock solid confession I will build my church.
speaker-0: Wow, I love it. So and isn't that interesting the you s we see these pictures in in somewhat different ways, but Jesus is the builder in Matthew sixteen. Yes. And the the foundation is about him. Here we find that Paul is actually making Jesus equivalent to the foundation.
speaker-1: nice, interesting, very practical ways to speak there because they knew about building, they knew about planting, right, in that society. So you use that all the time.
speaker-0: So Anthony he's he's laid this before us. There is this foundation, it's Jesus Christ, but others will build on that foundation then.
speaker-1: More than one person involved then in a church enterprise. Yes. Very important. And then the day of judgment, you're about to read it there, I think. He's gonna reveal it. So it all looks towards that Acts seventeen thirty one. The day has come when God's gonna judge us by the standards set by Jesus. Yes.
speaker-0: Yes, yes.
speaker-1: He's got a calendar date lined up, so that's what we keep an eye on. Is it
speaker-0: Yeah that's right. Yeah. He is a he is determined today. He's appointed today, yeah, like that. Verse twelve. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, or ha wood, hay or straw, each one's work will become manifest. Mm-hmm. For the day will disclose it because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. Verse 14, if the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. On the other hand, verse 15, if anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. Wow.
speaker-1: Absolutely. I think people misinterpret this passage to mean their personal salvation. So about church planting here. You can't just do nothing in your Christian life and expect to be saved, period. Yeah, they're gonna suffer loss if it isn't a successful project. Absolutely. But we're not talking about individual personal salvation here, I think. I it's a special category.
speaker-0: I think maybe notice that that Paul is referencing different kinds of materials, yes. Some very precious, mm, some very valuable, others like wood, hay, you might not want to be building with hay or with straw. those things would be so flammable. Yes.
speaker-1: Good point.
speaker-0: And maybe his point is then, Anthony that The day's gonna come when there's gonna be a fire or there's gonna become a tragedy that something's going to come to this building. And when it does, if you've been building with materials that are flammable and not the best not durable, not good, then you're gonna lose what you've done. You each fellow is building, I suppose. Right. Puts the same kind of energy into it, one with straw, one with hay, one with wood, and another is using precious stones and things that would last. Exactly. so that's an interesting thing. but both builders are I suppose well intended. because he says you know, they're they're both gonna make it, but the work will not endure for the one who builds with
speaker-1: would be the symbol of trial, wouldn't it? Yes. Yes. Under under the pressure of trial, the that badly constructed work that must be not going to succeed. Absolutely. But what this is not saying is that you can put up your hand to get saved and build nothing at all on that and still be saved. That's right. He says he himself will still be saved. But he's talking about a church planting
speaker-0: Someone goes into that effort, yeah. Exactly.
speaker-1: Very important distinction, I think. Yeah.
speaker-0: Very good then. You know, ev each person should think about that in their lives. I think there might be even we could by extend that thought a little bit even to our our lives in other ways as we should conduct yeah anything that we're doing in the name of the Lord. And as Christians we we want to be building carefully and wisely.
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: Verse sixteen, do you not know that you are God's temple? Yes. And that God's Spirit dwells in you. Verse seventeen, if anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
speaker-1: Another image then, not just a building but a holy building, a temple. Yeah. All sorts of snapshots to get the point from different images. I make much of the point here that when he introduces this temple image, he doesn't use the definite article. Don't you understand you are a temple of God? I make that distinction because in Second Thessalonians two he talks about the Antichrist saying in the temple, which probably because of the article there, he's not talking about the church there, I think. Now it's true that f following the introduction where he says a temple of God, he can then go on to speak of you as the temple of
speaker-0: Yeah, right.
speaker-1: anaphoric article to use the technical term. But when he says in Second Thessalonians two that the Antichrist will stand in the temple of God, most likely he's not talking metaphorically there, right? It's a nice point actually. I I've enjoyed that point. But we are the t we are a temple of God, no question. We are to be God's dwelling place. That's quite a challenge, isn't it?
speaker-0: you are God's temple. You know, when you think about the example he's laid out then he's got three different persons he's focusing on. One fellow is a builder who builds wisely with apparently durable materials, good materials, and it's gonna last. the second fellow he brings to our attention is the fellow who maybe is well intended, but he's not building wisely. He's building with what hay, wooden stubble and stuff. You know this is not what would be intended for a good durable building. But now he's introduced a third person. The first two each will be saved because they're seeking to do good f for for it's sort of the Romans fourteen then. But this third person, this is different. This is a person who comes to destroy the temple. Now that fellow, on the other hand, he doesn't fit in either one of the other the one who who comes in and does harm or damage that person will not be saved. I think they're going to have judgment before them before.
speaker-1: You said every actually everybody's well most people are well intentioned. Yes. Very few people get up in the morning and say, Well, I I'm really going to deceive this people deceive. Right. They mean well, but they may be very careless in their preparation. Yes. And you can lose a reward here. So I there's a text in John that's never used in the epistles where it says, and I don't know the verse offhand, it says that we may gain a full reward. So that means you can gain less than a full reward
speaker-0: Yes, that's good.
speaker-1: for the full reward. That's the text I don't hear mentioned. So you can suffer injury, you you're gonna be saved yourself by the skin of your teeth. Yes, yes. Even if you don't build wisely. But it's it's strictly this limited area of church planting rather than just getting saved or not getting saved. I th I think so.
speaker-0: Thank you.
speaker-1: I think that must be it. Otherwise it becomes a kind of once saved, always saved idea which contradicts everything else in
speaker-0: Makes no sense. Yeah. but then this this soul that comes along with ill will and and
speaker-1: Yes, that's right.
speaker-0: they may be driven, they may think in their minds they're doing well, but if they're destroyed that's another story.
speaker-1: Sure now.
speaker-0: That's another story. For whatever their reason, yeah. So wow.
speaker-1: So then you get to a squat eighteen, isn't it? Yes.
speaker-0: eighteen, let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. A fool according to the way this age would think.
speaker-1: It's a vivid way of saying it. It strikes the brain, you know, let him be be a fool. Suppose telling us to be fools? Well yes. In that context
speaker-0: In that sense, yeah.
speaker-1: the opposite of godly wisdom is
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: foolishness. Here is he's gonna say that very thing.
speaker-0: Verse 19, for the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, He catches the wise in their craftiness. And again, the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise that they are futile. So let no one boast in men. That's back to that don't boast business again, do I think? Let no one boast in men. For all things are yours. I love this verse. So whether they are Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world, they're all yours. Isn't this wonderful? This is this is lovely. And he says, Or the world or life or death or the present or the future, all are yours. And love this concluding verse, this chapter. And you are Christ's that is you belong to Christ and Christ is God's. He belongs to God.
speaker-1: That's straightforward.
speaker-0: This this deserving of a little charismatic moment.
speaker-1: What is it? A charismatic twirl.
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-1: Why not? You feel like getting up and dancing at church at that point. No, it is it is so c clear,
speaker-0: my goodness.
speaker-1: isn't it? I love that, yes. You own everything. that's that Jeremiah twenty seven five we did this morning, you know. God made the heavens and the earth, all the animals, and he's going to give the whole thing the
speaker-0: No, yes.
speaker-1: whole shooting match, I we used to us say in English. The whole kit gabooodle.
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-1: gives it to the one either the one that God decides he is pleased to give it to, or the one that is pleasing in God's eye. You own the whole thing. It's tremendous stuff.
speaker-0: I love that. And then notice too the the language is is very carefully put. He just says and you're Christ's and Christ is God. He doesn't say that. He said Christ is God belongs to God in the same sense we belong to Christ. And Absolutely
speaker-1: The wonderful subordination there to use the technical term. Yeah, I mean to say that Christ is God. You know, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Ramsay X, he in the book I've got it over there, he says, you know, Jesus did not claim deity for himself.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: That's the opening statement in chapter two about Jesus and God. Jesus I hope everybody in the Church of England is listening to this, Jesus did not claim deity for himself. In nineteen eighty two, a whole thirty one out of thirty nine bishops in the Church of England said, You don't have to believe that Jesus is God to be a member of Archer. Relax,
speaker-0: That's wonderful.
speaker-1: yes. Jesus is not God. God was in Christ, not God was Christ.
speaker-0: Yes, yes, yes.
speaker-1: The Bible then is about God and man, not about God and God, much less about God and God and God.
speaker-0: Yes, yes.
speaker-1: That's easy. God and man, Psalm one hundred and ten, right.
speaker-0: And Jesus then the representative man for us. That's
speaker-1: Exactly. The ideal man, the model man, the pioneer of our salvation. It really it coheres so well, doesn't it? See I know that I can say I was there I was in the Church of England. Maybe I wasn't listening well, but I didn't understand any of this. We didn't talk about it. If we had talked If we'd given a Bible verse, suppose we go to a party, dinner party, and you say, I believe in the resurrection, we'd have been si what's the word, sidelined immediately. It's an American fanatic. Believe me, that was the case. You don't quote Bible verses in polite society.
speaker-0: my goodness. Yeah.
speaker-1: But I mean we're reading this stuff with delight. You're not not reading this 'cause we're trying to be pious.
speaker-0: Isn't it it's just wonderful. Yeah.
speaker-1: It's a lifting sound like beautiful music.
speaker-0: Well let's see you know, I was just thinking about this then, Anthony, isn't what Paul has done, he begins by announcing as he does who God is and and who Paul is and who Jesus is, of course, the people Christ. Yes. He gives thanks, he gives thanks for the people and he lifts them up wonderfully before he begins to deal now with their problems. Yes, that's right. Now I like that. He tends to he he can't address your problem too quickly. He in his mind I gotta let you know by the way, you're God's people and how wonderful this is.
speaker-1: No love.
speaker-0: Now we're gonna talk about your butt
speaker-1: Yeah. It's the essence of good diplomacy
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: and style, how to deal with people. He's a modest leader of people this far.
speaker-0: Yes.
