Beyond the Startup Ep. 3: Clay Snellings

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This file was generated by Descript
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Clay: Their desire for control becomes
a limiting factor because they're just
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not willing to let go of anything.
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A term that I love that we've used is
replace yourself, put somebody else
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into that seat, and you go and work
on something higher or different,
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and that way you've built an actual
structure that is repeatable.
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Lliam: If new business feels
like wind in your sails,
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you're probably doing something
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right.
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Hi, my name is Lliam Holmes, and
welcome to Beyond the Startup.
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This is where we have business owners
come in and talk to us about how they
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started their business, share all of
the bumps, all their successes, and
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hopefully be able to give you some
insights as to things that you might
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be able to use in your business.
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And so today we have Clay Snellings of
Snellings Walters, and he's gonna talk
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to us about his experience in coming from
the ground up in that insurance company.
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Clay, would you like
to introduce yourself?
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Clay: Super.
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Thank you Lliam.
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Clay Snellings and I've worked
at Snellings Walters Insurance
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Agency since June of 1986.
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So this year will be our
40th, my 40th anniversary.
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And, our company was founded in in
1952 by my father, John Snellings
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and had the luxury of working with my
father and with siblings in my family.
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and today our company looks much
differently than it did when
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I started there 40 years ago.
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and it's just been a great
ride and I'm happy to be here.
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Lliam: Oh, thank you.
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That's a really great place to start.
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Can you maybe talk us a little bit about
that sort of early foundation, because
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you walked into a family business.
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That, to, to your point
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Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Was very different
than what it looks like today.
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And, make, talk to us a little bit.
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what'd you walk into?
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Clay: Yeah, that's a great question.
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And we used to joke and call my
father the benevolent dictator.
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Because he, it was his company that he
started and, we, he came up with most of
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the systems and processes and hired most
of the people and he set our compensation
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and, pretty much ran the place.
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and at the time that I came there
as a 22-year-old, straight outta
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college, I had an older brother,
bill who worked there, and he's
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13 years older than me, so he was.
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Experienced.
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And then I think our total
staff in 1986 was 10 people.
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And I think we did about a
million dollars of revenue.
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which, it only took my dad
30 some odd years to go from
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zero to to a million dollars.
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Granted, prices were lower back
then, but still it was a milestone.
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and so it felt a lot like a
family business, although we
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did have 10 people on staff.
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as a new person in the company, learning
the industry, learning the products,
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getting training, having a mentor.
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I'll never forget Nancy, who was my mentor
as she taught me how we, do what we do.
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Lliam: Yeah.
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Anyway, in 1986, if you
put that into perspective.
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There was a lot that
didn't exist yet, right?
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there's a lot that has changed.
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I mean?
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Yeah.
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you think about not only the last
couple of years, but you get back
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to 1986 and it was a completely
different universe, right?
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So talk to me a little bit about
what was that inflection point?
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What was that point where
you came into the business?
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Obviously you had to learn the ropes
from dad and from Nancy, right?
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There was that gestalt, there was
that point at which you're like,
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okay, now I know what I'm doing.
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Here's what we're gonna do.
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I'd love to hear, your thoughts
about, when was that point and
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what, pushed you in that direction?
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Clay: yeah.
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So couple of different,
points in the, my career.
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first was 1993, that's the year
that my dad decided to retire.
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At the age of 70.
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And so my brother Bill Snellings, and
Nunnally Walters, whose name is on
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the door, both of them had been at the
company for 20 years at that point.
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So they were certainly my superiors.
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And at that point I was brought
into the management team having had
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been there for about seven years
at that point and was doing well.
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And so I felt that was a major milestone
where the three of us were in debt to
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my father 'cause we bought him out.
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Lliam: Okay.
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Clay: Okay.
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So you got, a 10 year note that you've
got a service to buy out the founder.
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And we are making the decisions as a
three person team of how are we gonna
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grow this business and how are we gonna
continue to be successful and, what are
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we gonna do budgeting wise or operational?
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And then technology was
becoming a major part of our
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business in the early nineties.
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And frankly, one of my leadership
roles from like 93 to 2000 was IT guy.
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So everything we did in our company
related to going to paperless
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environment and just lots of things in
the insurance industry that caused us
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to be more efficient using technology.
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those kinds of things happened in
that first era of maturing as a
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business leader and as a company.
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Lliam: Yeah.
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And that was what I was
thinking my way through too.
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You, you're brought into
the business, right?
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You're the son.
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They're trying to teach you the business.
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And I'm sure your kids like mine.
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You grew up listening to dad
talk about work all the time.
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Work there in high school and summers.
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Speaker 2: And just like my kids.
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Yeah.
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and so you go through this,
you, get into that business.
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All of a sudden, dad wants to retire.
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Proverbially, you gotta
put the big boy pants on.
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Because now you're going into
the, into that leadership role.
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Yeah.
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And it, in your case, it
sounds like it's three amigos.
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and you guys are like, okay, now what?
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And.
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I'm gonna guess that's where
the real learning started
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Clay: it.
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It did.
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And who is going to be the manager or the
president, and who's gonna run sales and
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who's gonna run service in our business?
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'cause we're in the
customer service business.
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Who's gonna be operations?
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How's accounting gonna work?
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And luckily as you, I'm sure you saw
in your company as you've got key
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people who are already there, that you
just want to continue to develop that.
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Yeah.
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There was a lot of learning to do.
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And, the next milestone in the evolution
of the company happened in 2007.
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and that's when Nunnally Walters
was getting ready to retire.
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And my brother and I are now pretty
experienced at running the company.
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And, I think our revenue in
2007 was probably $6 million.
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and.
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Bill and I basically, I can
remember this like it was yesterday.
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We're sitting there saying, okay,
do we wanna bring others into the
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company in ownership or do we wanna
make this the Bill and Clay show and
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continue just to be a company that
nurtures its clients and has some
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growth goals and things like that.
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So we've, we basically said, we've
got some talented people working here.
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We can recruit some others.
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Let's make this about more than us.
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And that at that point, Lliam,
we, we spread the ownership.
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when it was time for Nunnally to be
purchased, he earned about 30% of the
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company at the time of his retirement.
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And so another couple of guys who
were a little younger than me were
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coming, were come, came in as partners.
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And what was so refreshing
was the energy, the ideas.
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The skill sets that they brought,
we saw the business really scale.
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And I'll tell you that my recollection
of the time from say oh seven, up until
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around, frankly about 2018, we learned
how to attract talented people in the
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industry and some outside the industry and
really start to build the revenue model
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and the service model so that we could.
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Become a larger company.
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And over that next 10 years, I think we
probably went from five or $6 million
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in revenue to probably around 12.
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So it was, it was a nice, it was a nice,
a nice run and we learned a lot about
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make, getting things more structured with
governance and leadership and all that.
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and in that timeframe, 'cause I
know you're an EOS company as well.
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We adopted the EOS system into our
company in the summer of 2013, so
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that was a big time change as well.
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Lliam: Do you feel like that was one of
those foundational, structural decisions?
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Like you could have gone left,
you could have gone, right?
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No, it wasn't.
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Yeah,
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Clay: Quick story there,
if you don't mind.
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Sure.
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So I was put into the president
and CEO seat in about 2010 or 11.
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I joined Vistage.
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You familiar with that organization?
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I'm so Vistage great.
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CEO round table group where I'm getting
together once a month with 12 to 15
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other CEOs, not all in my industry and.
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You helped each other with your issues.
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And I learned so much about
leadership and about other companies
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facing similar challenges and
unique challenges and all of that.
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long story short, as the leader of
our company, we would get together,
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every 60 days for half a day.
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Planning meeting.
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And we would have a, bunch of metrics
that were telling us how the business
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was doing and we would have great
conversations about, great ideas about,
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let's do this over the next 60 days.
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At the end of that meeting,
we'd say, okay, you ready break.
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And everybody would go
back to their offices.
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We'd come back together 60 days
later and our execution on our
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strategic initiatives was not good.
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So life happened.
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I got busy.
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No accountability, all that kind
of stuff started to be evident.
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And I'm the leader, so it's on me.
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So long story short, I'm in Vistage
and we invited this guy named
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Walt Brown to come and talk to our
Vistage group, one of our meetings.
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And he was an EOS implementer.
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And basically he explained
the EOS platform to our group.
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And I went back to my, my, my senior
leadership team and I said, guys, I
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think we have something we ought to try.
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So we invited Walt to our office.
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He went through the presentation of how
EOS works and the team was behind it.
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And we implemented EOS in
August of 2013, August of 2013.
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And I will tell you that hard, hard
to get going and a lot to learn
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and all that, as you well know.
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But that really was a game changer
for the scalability of where we are.
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Lliam: Because it's interesting, right?
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And, all of us have it no
matter what business you're in.
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Where you, go from this, I or we a
small, we make all the decisions.
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And as much as you try to push those
decisions down to your department
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managers or you, try to get them to think
strategically about parts of the business.
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Or even to own a piece of that
business, figuratively, right?
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It's really hard to get
someone to step up to do that.
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And I think all businesses
go through that.
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And, I think for many businesses, that's
one of those limiting factors that they
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never get over because they never quite
figure out how to get beyond that.
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in some sort of meaningful,
measurable, articulate way.
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I think we were very similar
right in, in the fact that EOS
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was the framework that we used.
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And it didn't mean that we didn't still
have to do the work 'cause we did.
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But at least we had a common language,
a common platform, a common framework
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that we could all look at and say,
we're supposed to be doing this and
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we're supposed to be doing that.
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And I think that helped get us unstuck.
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and,
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I'd love to hear a little piece of your
journey there, but I know for us, when
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we saw EOS, we tried to self implement
and we learned really quickly that self
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implementing was really hard, right?
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Because you can't be the facilitator
so hard and, the participant, right?
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And we very quickly learned, the value
of actually hiring an implementer and
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having them walk us through that process
and teach us those new skills, right?
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And, the second time took the first time.
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First time was rough.
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Clay: When did you try it the first time?
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Do you remember?
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Lliam: Oh, I did.
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we started in, in 2010.
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Okay.
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before us.
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and we probably spent the next
two years self implementing.
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And at the end of that two years,
we were in a position where.
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We could still see value in it.
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But I think we could
recognize that we weren't it.
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Clay: Yeah.
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Lliam: And that it, was actually
valuable having someone else
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come in and do that for us.
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And, we've never looked back, ever since.
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Clay: That's one of the, let, when
I was thinking about our talk today
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and about lessons learned and how
did you learn some of the leadership
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skills and all this kind of stuff.
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And basically when you're in a
small company, like I joined.
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all those years ago, our trade
association, for example, the
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Independent Insurance agents of
Georgia, was a great, outlet for me to
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talk to my peers who worked at other
places and share ideas and all that.
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And Vistage was one of those places.
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And EOS through our implementer was
one of those places as well, because,
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You don't know what you don't know.
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And we've hired sales consultants to come
in and help teach our salespeople a system
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that works for our brand and the way that
we wanna do business with our customers.
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And just outside expertise is one of
those things that you hate paying for it.
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'cause a lot of times you're like,
oh gosh, another consulting business.
00:14:58.190 --> 00:14:58.369
Sure,
00:14:58.369 --> 00:14:58.670
But.
00:14:59.315 --> 00:15:01.744
At the end of the day, you're gonna
pick some good ones and you're
00:15:01.744 --> 00:15:04.204
gonna pick some bad ones over time.
00:15:04.204 --> 00:15:05.375
But I think
00:15:05.375 --> 00:15:09.395
just knowing in business that
you don't know everything and,
00:15:09.395 --> 00:15:13.685
to get outside counsel is, has
certainly been good for us.
00:15:13.835 --> 00:15:14.615
Lliam: Yeah, certainly.
00:15:15.155 --> 00:15:19.714
And I don't know, I don't know about
for you guys, but for me, the value
00:15:19.714 --> 00:15:25.984
of a peer group or, a, Vistage for
you or IAG right, or some of these
00:15:25.984 --> 00:15:27.335
sort of industry groups, isn't.
00:15:28.595 --> 00:15:31.954
It's really hard to recognize
something about your business.
00:15:32.690 --> 00:15:37.069
But when you see it in someone else's
business, it's a lot easier to recognize.
00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.129
You're like, I dunno, I
don't understand why, what is
00:15:41.180 --> 00:15:41.480
right.
00:15:41.599 --> 00:15:41.839
Yeah.
00:15:41.899 --> 00:15:47.119
But I think that through that education,
almost as a bystander, and seeing
00:15:47.119 --> 00:15:51.800
how they handle these challenges
To me, is almost the value of those
00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:54.020
groups beyond the formal education.
00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:54.619
Yeah.
00:15:54.619 --> 00:15:57.290
I like to say it's the
spaces in between, right?
00:15:57.940 --> 00:16:01.000
It's that dinner that you went
to where you got into that one
00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.040
conversation that had nothing to do.
00:16:03.520 --> 00:16:06.400
But it was, topical either
for you or for them.
00:16:06.940 --> 00:16:09.640
And maybe a couple of years later,
all of a sudden you're like,
00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:11.230
I remember that conversation.
00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:12.069
That made sense.
00:16:12.069 --> 00:16:14.290
And I see what they did
and I see what he did.
00:16:14.290 --> 00:16:14.680
And Right.
00:16:15.430 --> 00:16:16.900
We should, split it up and Right.
00:16:17.050 --> 00:16:17.590
Clay: Oh, big time.
00:16:17.590 --> 00:16:20.140
Lliam: Much easier to see it in
someone else's business sometimes,
00:16:20.140 --> 00:16:21.550
I think, than to see it in your own.
00:16:21.819 --> 00:16:22.210
Clay: Totally.
00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:23.500
very much.
00:16:24.040 --> 00:16:24.760
very true.
00:16:25.390 --> 00:16:25.540
yeah.
00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:26.230
Yeah.
00:16:26.944 --> 00:16:33.605
Lliam: I'd love to hear how at
Snellings Walters, you guys, from my
00:16:33.605 --> 00:16:36.425
viewpoint, you really mushroomed, right?
00:16:36.425 --> 00:16:41.435
You went from this really small million
dollar business, the $6 million business.
00:16:42.095 --> 00:16:42.545
To bigger.
00:16:42.935 --> 00:16:49.115
To bigger, And, it seems like the
piece from my perspective, that it
00:16:49.115 --> 00:16:51.755
accelerated every year over year.
00:16:51.815 --> 00:16:52.055
Yeah.
00:16:52.475 --> 00:16:54.395
And number one, that's hard to do.
00:16:55.204 --> 00:16:56.225
Number two is.
00:16:57.694 --> 00:17:02.675
That there's operational challenges,
there's financial challenges,
00:17:03.724 --> 00:17:07.204
there's skills you don't have
yet that you have to learn, and
00:17:07.204 --> 00:17:08.285
you're gonna learn those quickly.
00:17:08.494 --> 00:17:11.645
Because if you don't learn
those skills quickly, then
00:17:11.645 --> 00:17:12.964
you're gonna be either stuck.
00:17:13.444 --> 00:17:15.905
Or sometimes your company
actually gets demoted.
00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:19.835
Back down to a level that you
can't operate efficiently.
00:17:20.045 --> 00:17:23.014
Because when you're doing
things and everything's chaotic,
00:17:24.575 --> 00:17:28.985
You eventually have to step back
and then rebuild, rethink, retrench
00:17:28.985 --> 00:17:30.215
before you can step forward.
00:17:30.575 --> 00:17:30.995
Yeah.
00:17:31.115 --> 00:17:34.325
I'd love to hear about some of
your experiences, things that
00:17:34.325 --> 00:17:36.095
you might share with somebody who
00:17:36.275 --> 00:17:36.545
Sure.
00:17:36.545 --> 00:17:37.625
Might be going through that today.
00:17:38.165 --> 00:17:40.205
Clay: I'll tell the story of.
00:17:40.745 --> 00:17:42.455
The adoption of EOS.
00:17:42.695 --> 00:17:47.735
So when you are onboarding EOS,
and we used an implementer from the
00:17:47.735 --> 00:17:52.175
beginning, and so we spent two days
on a retreat with our senior leaders
00:17:52.175 --> 00:17:56.825
and we wrote our first VTO, which
is basically your business plan.
00:17:57.064 --> 00:17:58.534
And what do we believe?
00:17:58.534 --> 00:18:02.254
Why do we believe it, what do we wanna
look like in one, three, in 10 years?
00:18:02.855 --> 00:18:03.395
all of that.
00:18:05.615 --> 00:18:07.925
And, then you go from there to.
00:18:08.524 --> 00:18:11.965
Creating your org chart or we
call the accountability chart.
00:18:12.554 --> 00:18:19.445
And in doing that, that's where we
realized that our names were on a lot
00:18:19.445 --> 00:18:25.264
of multiple seats inside the company
and in the beginning of EOS, because
00:18:25.264 --> 00:18:28.864
we were trying to get everything
set up right and do things right.
00:18:28.864 --> 00:18:32.735
We also realized that some of our
senior leaders were some of our
00:18:32.735 --> 00:18:36.215
best salespeople, and they got.
00:18:36.770 --> 00:18:38.180
Distracted, if you will.
00:18:38.180 --> 00:18:38.600
Sure.
00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:43.879
From thinking about our sales goals
and our revenue production to getting
00:18:43.879 --> 00:18:48.530
the accountability chart and the vision
set properly, and the new processes
00:18:48.530 --> 00:18:52.010
and the new data points, and the right
people in the right seats, and all
00:18:52.010 --> 00:18:57.500
the other components of running our
company better on an EOS platform.
00:18:57.770 --> 00:19:00.200
We saw our revenue start to flatten off.
00:19:00.470 --> 00:19:01.100
We were like, whoa.
00:19:02.135 --> 00:19:07.895
So at that point, this was 2018,
we realized, one of our best
00:19:07.895 --> 00:19:11.735
salespeople was our integrator
in EOS term for basically COO.
00:19:13.054 --> 00:19:18.155
And, and so we said we gotta
get somebody else to do this.
00:19:18.304 --> 00:19:25.754
And of course, in our business, paying
for non-production related overhead in.
00:19:25.754 --> 00:19:28.490
In people cost is expensive, right?
00:19:28.790 --> 00:19:34.760
And so biting that bullet and saying,
Hey, we're gonna invest $200,000 in A COO.
00:19:37.070 --> 00:19:39.650
Was scary, was a risk, right?
00:19:39.890 --> 00:19:43.490
And so we started doing these
things and we got people in
00:19:43.490 --> 00:19:48.740
working in their strengths as we
learned that we all can't be just
00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.440
administrators running EOS platforms.
00:19:51.770 --> 00:19:56.780
And that's when we realized that,
delegate and elevate all these terms
00:19:56.780 --> 00:20:01.220
that you use and learn in business is
to put people in seats where they're
00:20:01.220 --> 00:20:04.010
suited and strong and then let.
00:20:04.354 --> 00:20:08.884
The revenue producers get out there
and do their thing, and I think that's
00:20:08.884 --> 00:20:12.634
where we had this little stall out, and
then it started to really go because the
00:20:12.634 --> 00:20:17.675
operators of the business were making
sure we were ready to scale and that we
00:20:17.675 --> 00:20:22.985
had the tools to serve our clients and
that we had people in training so that
00:20:22.985 --> 00:20:27.665
if somebody, was leaving or whatever,
that we weren't left with a big hole
00:20:27.874 --> 00:20:28.475
in the company.
00:20:28.659 --> 00:20:28.800
sure.
00:20:29.584 --> 00:20:34.355
So I can't even remember what your
question was exactly, but that was really
00:20:34.355 --> 00:20:40.415
an, a transformative time where you were
talking about the growing of our revenue,
00:20:41.254 --> 00:20:43.985
where we went from $12 million in 20.
00:20:45.669 --> 00:20:49.309
It's about 2014 - 15, and really took off.
00:20:49.340 --> 00:20:53.780
And today I'm, I feel like I'm bragging,
but we're, we're at $30 million today
00:20:53.960 --> 00:21:00.860
and so we've seen the company been able
be able to double in, in revenue size
00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:05.689
about every five or six years, which
is, you do the math, that's 15% growth.
00:21:05.689 --> 00:21:11.090
So it's healthy and steady, but really
getting those people in seats where
00:21:11.090 --> 00:21:14.270
they're strong across the organization.
00:21:14.675 --> 00:21:19.745
Has been super strong and we could talk
all day about the now the influence of
00:21:19.955 --> 00:21:26.195
technology and AI tools and all that stuff
that is changing the game and what we do.
00:21:27.245 --> 00:21:29.195
I'm sure every business is feeling it.
00:21:29.195 --> 00:21:29.525
Right?
00:21:29.525 --> 00:21:30.065
Lliam: There are.
00:21:30.515 --> 00:21:36.965
And I think that I, think in life the
only thing that's constant is Chang right.
00:21:37.420 --> 00:21:41.255
And, at least my view of it, no
matter what industry you're in.
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.740
changes now, you know it's gonna, at some
point it's showing up on your door, right?
00:21:46.100 --> 00:21:48.950
And you really have two choices.
00:21:48.950 --> 00:21:50.000
You have two options.
00:21:50.540 --> 00:21:52.070
I can embrace it or I can fight it.
00:21:52.485 --> 00:21:54.110
There really aren't any other options.
00:21:54.260 --> 00:21:57.139
Right now you could be, you could,
only fight it a little bit or
00:21:57.139 --> 00:21:58.129
you could embrace a little bit.
00:21:58.129 --> 00:22:01.430
There's do you crazy there, but
at the end of the day, you either
00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:05.540
see this as an impendent and as
an impediment or an opportunity.
00:22:06.350 --> 00:22:10.940
And I think that most
people, we don't like change.
00:22:12.365 --> 00:22:16.834
And as a result, our natural
instinct is we wanna fight it.
00:22:18.485 --> 00:22:19.415
we wanna step back.
00:22:19.594 --> 00:22:21.094
let's see what everyone else does.
00:22:22.655 --> 00:22:24.745
we don't wanna be on the bleeding edge.
00:22:27.274 --> 00:22:30.754
but the reality of it is,
it's coming to your doorstep.
00:22:31.834 --> 00:22:38.645
And at least in my view of
life, those early years when,
00:22:38.645 --> 00:22:39.965
this change is happening.
00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:43.670
These are the, these are what
I call the forgiveness years.
00:22:44.120 --> 00:22:47.060
Because no one knows, everybody's
trying to figure it out.
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.550
But you're learning, right?
00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:53.990
You're learning to, sit, to crawl, to run.
00:22:54.290 --> 00:22:57.170
And there's forgiveness
at this point in time.
00:22:58.040 --> 00:23:02.270
But if you wait four or five or six
years and everyone else has developed a
00:23:02.270 --> 00:23:04.580
model and now you're like, okay, me too.
00:23:05.659 --> 00:23:08.925
You never learned all those
lessons because you were like, hey.
00:23:09.574 --> 00:23:11.074
We're gonna hang back a little bit, right?
00:23:11.104 --> 00:23:11.284
Yeah.
00:23:11.915 --> 00:23:17.435
and so I think that, can be, a
foundational thing, that it's almost a
00:23:17.435 --> 00:23:24.455
mindset where you have to know Hey, look,
being a business owner comes with risk.
00:23:25.715 --> 00:23:27.034
Get comfortable with that.
00:23:27.395 --> 00:23:33.215
There are gonna be decisions that you're
gonna make that hopefully they work out.
00:23:34.054 --> 00:23:37.235
And if you've done a little bit of
planning and it doesn't work out.
00:23:37.654 --> 00:23:38.644
At least it didn't kill it.
00:23:39.624 --> 00:23:41.495
And sometimes that happens too.
00:23:41.824 --> 00:23:46.955
And I don't know what, your story or
your thoughts about this is, but if I
00:23:46.955 --> 00:23:50.675
don't look at MIS, and I think about
the, the years and years that we've
00:23:50.675 --> 00:23:56.014
been in business for 35 years, we didn't
hit every one of them out of ball park.
00:23:56.164 --> 00:23:58.294
There were times that
cost us, that hurt us.
00:23:59.254 --> 00:24:03.664
But I think back on some of
those times, and I'll tell you.
00:24:04.235 --> 00:24:05.585
Without exception.
00:24:05.675 --> 00:24:09.725
I'm grateful for each one of
those times because each one of
00:24:09.725 --> 00:24:11.735
those things taught us something.
00:24:12.304 --> 00:24:14.825
They motivated us to
do something different.
00:24:15.125 --> 00:24:18.665
They allowed us to learn a
hard lesson that maybe we
00:24:18.665 --> 00:24:20.044
wouldn't have learned otherwise.
00:24:20.315 --> 00:24:24.185
'cause sometimes when things are
good, as much as I hate to say it.
00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:27.650
You might get a little
bit complacent, right?
00:24:27.650 --> 00:24:31.520
Because there's nobody kicking your
butt, making you learn these lessons
00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:32.720
that you really should be learning.
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.350
And so all of a sudden out of the blue,
here comes a new competitor, or here comes
00:24:36.350 --> 00:24:39.800
a thing, or maybe your largest customer
leaves and you're like, oh my gosh, all of
00:24:39.800 --> 00:24:41.300
a sudden we're gonna have to do something.
00:24:41.660 --> 00:24:44.390
Those are those transformational periods.
00:24:45.320 --> 00:24:47.840
And I'm sure that you guys
probably had a few of those too,
00:24:47.870 --> 00:24:48.290
right?
00:24:48.290 --> 00:24:48.860
Clay: Certainly.
00:24:48.890 --> 00:24:49.520
Certainly.
00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:51.935
It's, I can, yeah.
00:24:51.965 --> 00:24:52.624
Plenty of them.
00:24:52.624 --> 00:24:58.594
I that almost too many to name, but I,
was thinking about as you were describing
00:24:58.594 --> 00:25:03.695
that evolution and experiences that
so many people in our industry and the
00:25:03.695 --> 00:25:09.394
world of insurance agents, they, they
make their agency, their lifestyle
00:25:09.394 --> 00:25:19.370
business, and, it's just, a person is
the primary salesperson generates the
00:25:19.370 --> 00:25:23.870
revenue, maybe has a family member who's
doing the books, all this kind of stuff,
00:25:23.870 --> 00:25:32.030
and their desire for control and for no
change, their desire for consistency,
00:25:32.030 --> 00:25:36.260
I guess you'd like to say, becomes a
limiting factor because they're just
00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:38.635
not willing to let go of anything.
00:25:39.754 --> 00:25:44.074
Because of that, it truly, I've
talked to people frequently that,
00:25:44.465 --> 00:25:49.294
hey, we've been in business 30, 35
years and we are ex, they're small.
00:25:49.294 --> 00:25:52.414
They're just still two or three
people and they've liked it that way.
00:25:54.785 --> 00:25:59.315
So that's where, to our listeners
who are trying to say, how
00:25:59.315 --> 00:26:01.175
do I scale this thing up?
00:26:01.565 --> 00:26:05.135
How do I hit, how do I
double this business?
00:26:05.285 --> 00:26:09.755
How do I prepare it to sell it
one day or whatever the, goal is.
00:26:10.415 --> 00:26:15.965
It's simply to follow, a
path where you're letting go.
00:26:15.965 --> 00:26:19.115
And in a term that I love that
we've used is replace yourself.
00:26:22.370 --> 00:26:26.330
put somebody else into that
seat and you go and work on
00:26:26.330 --> 00:26:28.250
something higher or different.
00:26:28.790 --> 00:26:29.785
And that way you've built.
00:26:30.514 --> 00:26:33.425
An actual structure that is repeatable.
00:26:33.605 --> 00:26:38.615
And so that's the big thing is I see
lifestyle businesses a lot imperfect.
00:26:38.615 --> 00:26:41.044
It could be in any business
really, but I'm sure you see it
00:26:41.524 --> 00:26:45.784
consultant firms and support firms
that are just a one person show.
00:26:46.294 --> 00:26:46.445
Yeah.
00:26:46.475 --> 00:26:47.315
And they love it that way.
00:26:47.315 --> 00:26:48.034
That's what they want.
00:26:48.034 --> 00:26:48.095
Yeah.
00:26:48.965 --> 00:26:52.504
but they're vulnerable as heck because
that one customer can fire 'em and
00:26:52.504 --> 00:26:54.304
then they realize they're down 50%.
00:26:54.544 --> 00:26:54.815
Lliam: Yeah.
00:26:55.175 --> 00:26:56.675
In fact, 80%.
00:26:57.499 --> 00:27:00.350
IT providers are under 10
people in the United States.
00:27:00.350 --> 00:27:00.739
Yeah.
00:27:00.739 --> 00:27:00.749
Yeah.
00:27:01.100 --> 00:27:03.229
And I think it's exactly
what you're saying, right?
00:27:03.439 --> 00:27:04.699
I know insurance is the same way.
00:27:04.705 --> 00:27:07.100
So way tons of, just really little guys.
00:27:07.129 --> 00:27:07.699
Tons of,
00:27:08.360 --> 00:27:12.320
Clay: And we're, yeah, we've got 105
people on our staff and 22 shareholders,
00:27:12.320 --> 00:27:18.560
so we've certainly broadened the ownership
bucket as well as the people bucket.
00:27:18.560 --> 00:27:23.465
And If you take out the big, people
in our industry, the Marsh and the Aon
00:27:23.465 --> 00:27:29.074
and Lockton, the big national worldwide
brokers, when you look at privately
00:27:29.074 --> 00:27:35.705
held firms in a major metropolitan
area like Atlanta, there's probably
00:27:35.705 --> 00:27:39.814
two or three insurance agencies
that are larger than we are today.
00:27:40.685 --> 00:27:45.485
I don't say that for bragging purposes,
but I say it out of thankfulness.
00:27:47.465 --> 00:27:50.915
we were able to make a couple of
good fork in the road decisions
00:27:50.915 --> 00:27:52.294
along with plenty of bad ones.
00:27:52.534 --> 00:27:54.245
I've had to divorce a business partner.
00:27:54.245 --> 00:27:55.445
I've, we've been through a lot.
00:27:55.445 --> 00:27:57.485
We've had staff to by an employee.
00:27:57.485 --> 00:28:00.364
We had to get over just, lots of problems.
00:28:01.564 --> 00:28:08.284
but at the end of the day, 40 years in the
rear view mirror, we made more good fork
00:28:08.284 --> 00:28:10.324
in the road decisions than we did bad.
00:28:10.895 --> 00:28:14.225
And now, we've got a really
good, viable company.
00:28:15.110 --> 00:28:15.500
Lliam: Yeah.
00:28:15.740 --> 00:28:16.010
Yeah.
00:28:16.580 --> 00:28:21.380
one of the things that I see in our
company, and, we're certainly not as
00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:27.230
big as you guys, but you guys, you,
guys must come face to face with this as
00:28:27.230 --> 00:28:30.170
well, and that is the cultural component.
00:28:31.010 --> 00:28:34.100
At some point when you're
little, I think about MIS when
00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:36.320
it was five or six of us, right?
00:28:36.560 --> 00:28:38.690
We could all get around
the table and we were good.
00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:40.210
Clay: It's family,
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:41.420
Lliam: it's family, right?
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:41.630
But
00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:42.200
at some
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:42.740
point.
00:28:43.399 --> 00:28:45.200
You can't fit around the table.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.860
At some point, you've gotta
start thinking about structure.
00:28:48.860 --> 00:28:51.680
At some point, people
have to own roles, right?
00:28:52.490 --> 00:28:57.770
And one of the interesting things that
happens as that sort of progression
00:28:58.010 --> 00:29:03.260
happens is that people lose connection
to the culture of the business.
00:29:03.260 --> 00:29:04.879
The why are we doing this?
00:29:04.879 --> 00:29:05.120
Why?
00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:08.330
You know what, why,
what makes us different?
00:29:10.550 --> 00:29:12.320
I know EOS for us really helped.
00:29:12.595 --> 00:29:12.815
Clay: Wow.
00:29:12.820 --> 00:29:12.919
Wow.
00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:13.550
Big time.
00:29:13.580 --> 00:29:13.940
Lliam: Right?
00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:14.389
Big time.
00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:20.149
But I'd love to hear, gosh, as you guys
went to 105 people And particularly
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:22.070
you guys have 22 owners, right?
00:29:22.399 --> 00:29:25.790
I can't imagine having 22
decision makers, right?
00:29:26.149 --> 00:29:27.110
That's a lot, right?
00:29:27.139 --> 00:29:27.379
Yeah.
00:29:27.679 --> 00:29:29.899
And so that's a challenge
we haven't gotten to yet.
00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:34.159
but I just think about this and I'm
thinking like, how, were you guys
00:29:34.159 --> 00:29:36.500
able to have such a rich culture?
00:29:36.500 --> 00:29:36.860
Because.
00:29:37.219 --> 00:29:41.840
I know enough about you guys that
you, guys have an admirable culture.
00:29:41.899 --> 00:29:42.169
Thank you.
00:29:42.169 --> 00:29:44.539
And that's, difficult to
do, particularly your size.
00:29:44.600 --> 00:29:45.529
Clay: I appreciate that.
00:29:45.529 --> 00:29:50.269
And yeah, first thing on the
shareholders, 22 of them, but we
00:29:50.269 --> 00:29:52.249
have six board members who make.
00:29:53.149 --> 00:29:57.830
99% of the decisions, A
shareholder votes on the slate
00:29:57.860 --> 00:29:59.480
of who is gonna be on the board.
00:29:59.629 --> 00:29:59.960
I see.
00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:03.800
But then the board, from a governance
perspective, we make the decisions
00:30:04.070 --> 00:30:08.090
to hire the CEO and approve the
budget and all those kind of things.
00:30:08.449 --> 00:30:12.889
So we do still have a manageable
group of decision makers, if you will.
00:30:13.970 --> 00:30:17.540
but what you were saying a minute
ago about the culture piece and that,
00:30:17.600 --> 00:30:21.395
and it's Cool for me to see this.
00:30:22.565 --> 00:30:26.705
Natalie, who runs our marketing and
branding side of the business, and
00:30:26.705 --> 00:30:30.514
you guys do a wonderful job with
this as well, but people see us on
00:30:30.514 --> 00:30:34.595
social media, for example, and they
come up to me strangers and say,
00:30:34.595 --> 00:30:36.635
gosh, I just love y'all's content.
00:30:36.635 --> 00:30:39.245
And I'm like, that is, I really
appreciate you saying that.
00:30:39.635 --> 00:30:40.115
And we're.
00:30:40.745 --> 00:30:46.054
Conscious because of EOS to talk
about our core values and to talk
00:30:46.054 --> 00:30:50.945
about our vision and to talk about
our purpose statement, which I what?
00:30:51.034 --> 00:30:53.195
I'll just segue to that real quick.
00:30:53.195 --> 00:30:57.995
Our mission statement or our why
statement as we say it, is we
00:30:57.995 --> 00:31:02.289
lead to inspire confidence so
that your potential is unleashed.
00:31:02.899 --> 00:31:06.860
What I love about that mission statement,
Lliam, is it doesn't say insurance.
00:31:07.639 --> 00:31:11.210
It doesn't say customer
service, it doesn't say
00:31:11.419 --> 00:31:13.460
ethical, it doesn't say quality.
00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:20.615
All those things are important, but
why we exist is to everyone we touch,
00:31:20.745 --> 00:31:25.939
our employees, our customers, our
suppliers, our partner vendors, is to
00:31:25.939 --> 00:31:29.689
say, if we can be related to these.
00:31:30.245 --> 00:31:35.284
Constituents and inspire, lead them in
a way that inspires confidence in our
00:31:35.284 --> 00:31:37.294
relationships and how we do business.
00:31:37.564 --> 00:31:40.294
Then the, potential is unlimited.
00:31:40.655 --> 00:31:42.725
That's what unleashed
potential means to me.
00:31:43.205 --> 00:31:47.945
So those are the things when
you talk about a strong culture.
00:31:48.665 --> 00:31:51.304
That, those are some of the components.
00:31:51.304 --> 00:31:56.135
And the other thing that I really, I'm
so lucky that I get to do after anyone
00:31:56.135 --> 00:32:01.774
has worked for our company for 90 days,
then they have a meeting with me and
00:32:01.774 --> 00:32:07.534
we spend an hour together and we go
through the VTO, the vision traction
00:32:07.534 --> 00:32:12.544
organizer, and I pull it up on my screen
and I usually start it with, these are
00:32:12.544 --> 00:32:15.185
the six key components of our business.
00:32:15.784 --> 00:32:16.925
Vision is one of them.
00:32:17.824 --> 00:32:21.395
And then I go through the vision
statement, which describes
00:32:21.395 --> 00:32:24.395
the core values, and I tell
them how they were created.
00:32:24.965 --> 00:32:27.334
And then we talk about our 10 year target.
00:32:27.334 --> 00:32:32.044
We talk about our niche in the market,
we talk about our strategy going to the
00:32:32.044 --> 00:32:34.534
market, we talk about our guarantee.
00:32:34.534 --> 00:32:39.875
All those things that are part of
this, constitutional document that
00:32:39.875 --> 00:32:42.185
describes what is Snelling's Walters.
00:32:42.664 --> 00:32:47.074
And I love doing that because it
allows me to tell stories and it also
00:32:47.164 --> 00:32:52.504
brings everybody on the same page
as to, like you said, we get so rac,
00:32:52.504 --> 00:32:56.195
we get fragmented and distracted and
they're like, I'm not even sure what
00:32:56.195 --> 00:32:57.935
this company's trying to accomplish.
00:32:58.804 --> 00:33:03.574
I know what I gotta do day to day
as my job, but I'm not really sure
00:33:03.574 --> 00:33:09.424
how am I rowing the boat to help
this company achieve its short,
00:33:09.424 --> 00:33:11.074
medium, and long range goals.
00:33:11.074 --> 00:33:12.185
And why do I care?
00:33:12.274 --> 00:33:12.334
Yeah.
00:33:12.965 --> 00:33:17.675
And those are the things that
are just really powerful.
00:33:17.675 --> 00:33:24.185
And what I've loved about, being in the
role that I'm in today, and then I get
00:33:24.185 --> 00:33:30.334
to, bring people to the same page about,
why they work here, why we hired them.
00:33:30.604 --> 00:33:33.455
I tell 'em we hired you
because we perceive that you
00:33:33.455 --> 00:33:35.074
align with our core values.
00:33:36.350 --> 00:33:38.930
and we're gonna talk about
that every 90 days, right?
00:33:39.220 --> 00:33:40.820
It's part of the EOS process.
00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:43.940
So that's, the long
answer to that question.
00:33:45.290 --> 00:33:50.860
Lliam: to me, I think I heard two
things that are worth repeating.
00:33:51.620 --> 00:33:55.370
Number one, it's like the
Simon Sinek thing, right?
00:33:55.370 --> 00:33:56.330
Starting with why.
00:33:56.390 --> 00:33:56.540
Clay: Yeah.
00:33:56.570 --> 00:33:57.500
That's where that came from.
00:33:57.710 --> 00:33:58.100
Lliam: Yeah.
00:33:58.850 --> 00:34:01.700
And, it sounds so obvious, right?
00:34:02.629 --> 00:34:06.950
But if you ever sat down
honestly and tried to figure
00:34:06.950 --> 00:34:09.620
out your why, that's not easy.
00:34:11.720 --> 00:34:15.080
it takes companies sometimes
years, sometimes decades.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.550
And I think many of them actually
never quite figure it out.
00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:23.275
Because they don't give it the,
attention that it deserves.
00:34:23.540 --> 00:34:26.420
But without understanding your why.
00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:31.550
You are literally blindfolded
throwing darts against what you
00:34:31.550 --> 00:34:33.710
hope is a dart board, right?
00:34:33.860 --> 00:34:34.130
Yeah.
00:34:34.190 --> 00:34:39.920
And so it really, behooves you to sit to
think about like, why are we doing this?
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.220
And it's, it's not the obvious
things like, I need to feed my
00:34:43.220 --> 00:34:45.050
family like that, that's not it.
00:34:46.040 --> 00:34:46.820
It really is.
00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:49.370
It really is about,
what is that core thing.
00:34:49.370 --> 00:34:53.600
And I think when, you are
very clear about your why.
00:34:54.665 --> 00:34:57.485
It's very clear to explain
it to someone else.
00:34:58.625 --> 00:34:58.865
Yeah.
00:34:58.895 --> 00:35:03.155
But when you're not clear, how do
you explain that to someone else?
00:35:03.155 --> 00:35:07.805
Because they'll never be as clear
as you, and then they're gonna
00:35:07.805 --> 00:35:09.185
turn around and tell somebody.
00:35:09.185 --> 00:35:10.415
It's kinda like a whisper game, right?
00:35:11.585 --> 00:35:15.665
And it's not long before
the why doesn't exist.
00:35:16.715 --> 00:35:17.085
Clay: Well said..
00:35:17.375 --> 00:35:22.025
Lliam: And then I think the other thing
I heard was really just alignment.
00:35:23.885 --> 00:35:28.205
and we learned this lesson
ourselves, a number of years ago
00:35:29.315 --> 00:35:30.545
in a couple of different ways.
00:35:31.505 --> 00:35:35.705
for most businesses, certainly
we were not excluded from this.
00:35:36.725 --> 00:35:39.815
We only hired people when
we needed people, right?
00:35:39.815 --> 00:35:43.265
Like the work was to the point where
we didn't have enough people to
00:35:43.265 --> 00:35:45.935
do the work, so we had to go hire
someone to help us do the work, right?
00:35:47.645 --> 00:35:50.945
Day one, we were like, you
get the two part training.
00:35:51.275 --> 00:35:51.665
Right?
00:35:51.695 --> 00:35:52.865
Good luck and hang in there.
00:35:54.545 --> 00:35:58.835
And, we put 'em to work and, but
what we realized was that was
00:35:59.525 --> 00:36:01.055
completely the wrong approach.
00:36:02.075 --> 00:36:05.105
And this was one of those
things where you almost have to
00:36:05.105 --> 00:36:07.235
slow down the speed up, right?
00:36:08.015 --> 00:36:09.995
And today, when we hire somebody.
00:36:10.370 --> 00:36:16.100
They have a 90 day plan that's written
down that we bring them in and there
00:36:16.100 --> 00:36:22.490
are certain milestones you saying they
gotta sit down with me for an hour
00:36:22.490 --> 00:36:24.140
and they gotta go over the VTO, right?
00:36:24.140 --> 00:36:25.909
That's very strategic, right?
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:30.649
That think that takes an
incredible amount of commitment.
00:36:30.649 --> 00:36:34.819
That's very expensive to do that, but it.
00:36:35.419 --> 00:36:39.470
Really puts in the focus that one
word, which for me is alignment.
00:36:40.549 --> 00:36:40.879
Love that.
00:36:40.999 --> 00:36:41.149
That's
00:36:41.149 --> 00:36:45.829
what, 'cause once you have alignment
and once your team is aligned, we're
00:36:45.829 --> 00:36:47.629
all pulling in the same direction.
00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:55.009
Whereas I think for many companies,
what they tend to do is small tweaks.
00:36:55.999 --> 00:37:02.479
But the reality of it is these small
tweaks are endless and it is a.
00:37:03.109 --> 00:37:06.559
It is a Rubik's cube that
does not want to be solved,
00:37:07.009 --> 00:37:07.399
right?
00:37:07.850 --> 00:37:12.439
And at some point you really have to
sit down and say, we would be better off
00:37:12.439 --> 00:37:19.279
if we just took two steps back, studied
this problem, thoughtful about our why,
00:37:19.850 --> 00:37:22.039
understood what alignment looked like,
00:37:24.434 --> 00:37:26.749
and then used a framework.
00:37:26.749 --> 00:37:27.529
We used EOS.
00:37:27.529 --> 00:37:29.059
You guys used EOS.
00:37:32.014 --> 00:37:37.865
Use what EOS gives you to really be able
to understand, did I hire the right guy?
00:37:38.854 --> 00:37:40.894
Do we have the right metrics?
00:37:41.314 --> 00:37:42.874
Is it a cultural fit?
00:37:43.174 --> 00:37:45.424
And all of these things
sound silly, right?
00:37:45.424 --> 00:37:47.704
Because they're not very
complicated, but Right.
00:37:48.004 --> 00:37:53.089
But how many of us got so stuck on that
for years that we couldn't get over it?
00:37:53.615 --> 00:37:54.874
Clay: I don't remember where I read the
00:37:54.874 --> 00:37:55.654
phrase work.
00:37:56.359 --> 00:37:58.189
On the business, not in the business.
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:01.129
I don't know if that's an
EOS thing or some other book.
00:38:01.129 --> 00:38:08.629
And the other, business book and
concept that really stuck with me
00:38:08.629 --> 00:38:13.910
in, in, in that vein was, a book
called The E Myth of Small Business.
00:38:13.910 --> 00:38:13.920
Yes.
00:38:14.484 --> 00:38:15.114
Michael Gerber.
00:38:15.144 --> 00:38:16.074
Yeah, Michael Gerber.
00:38:16.074 --> 00:38:19.374
But it had to do with, the guy who had
a pie shop and he was really good at
00:38:19.374 --> 00:38:23.124
making pies, but he didn't know how to
teach somebody else how to make pies or
00:38:23.124 --> 00:38:25.014
to scale the thing at all and all that.
00:38:25.014 --> 00:38:30.024
And that's if you don't have a
culture component and an alignment
00:38:30.024 --> 00:38:31.884
component to go with that.
00:38:33.049 --> 00:38:34.459
it's gonna be harder now.
00:38:34.459 --> 00:38:39.799
I'll just add one other thing that's been
really cool for us in addition to EOS and
00:38:39.799 --> 00:38:46.640
Vistage and other things is Culture Index,
which is a program and a system that we
00:38:46.640 --> 00:38:52.399
use that everyone in the organization
takes and everyone who is a prospective
00:38:52.399 --> 00:38:58.160
employee, before we even interview them,
they take, it's a quick word association
00:38:58.160 --> 00:39:00.319
thing and it basically just shows us.
00:39:00.950 --> 00:39:05.089
What their personality is and
where their strengths are and
00:39:05.089 --> 00:39:06.499
what their tendencies are.
00:39:06.859 --> 00:39:11.059
And it's really cool because
it, it says the top graph, which
00:39:11.120 --> 00:39:12.680
is similar to the bottom graph.
00:39:12.680 --> 00:39:16.939
The top graph is what you've been
like intuitively since you were six.
00:39:17.359 --> 00:39:20.450
And the bottom graph is what do
you feel like you need to be at?
00:39:21.964 --> 00:39:27.754
And it, identifies the conflict that
could be between what you believe you
00:39:27.754 --> 00:39:33.575
are innately from a social ego, sense
of urgency, attention to detail, logic,
00:39:33.634 --> 00:39:38.734
intuition, all these things versus what
you think your job calls you to be.
00:39:39.154 --> 00:39:43.535
And we want to try to keep people
from having these conflicts in their,
00:39:43.535 --> 00:39:45.620
graphs so that they're not miserable.
00:39:46.369 --> 00:39:46.819
Lliam: Yes,
00:39:46.849 --> 00:39:51.259
Clay: because you can only fake it
for so long and, if you're in a system
00:39:51.259 --> 00:39:56.569
where you're in this state of stress
and conflict between your natural
00:39:56.569 --> 00:40:01.039
tendencies and your work life, it's
not gonna be a good long-term outcome.
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:04.399
So we're trying to make sure
that we put people in the right
00:40:04.399 --> 00:40:08.149
place, so that, culture's good.
00:40:09.589 --> 00:40:10.370
and all of that.
00:40:10.370 --> 00:40:14.240
And then the last piece on the whole
culture thing and the vision and
00:40:14.299 --> 00:40:18.709
having people on the same page and
understanding why they do what they do
00:40:18.709 --> 00:40:24.049
and their job and all of that is the
EOS component of quarterly meetings.
00:40:25.069 --> 00:40:30.080
And we love those, Billy and
Jennifer, our president and CEO run
00:40:30.080 --> 00:40:32.330
those meetings, for the most part.
00:40:32.839 --> 00:40:39.455
And, The transparency that we bring
to that meeting for everybody in the
00:40:39.455 --> 00:40:46.835
organization to know about how we're
doing revenue retention, attrition
00:40:46.835 --> 00:40:51.154
of people, all these metrics that
a lot of business owners would
00:40:51.154 --> 00:40:53.075
say, they don't need to know that.
00:40:53.734 --> 00:40:54.995
Why would I share that with them?
00:40:56.059 --> 00:41:02.119
We're like, unless they understand how
their role contributes to this and how
00:41:02.569 --> 00:41:09.649
achieving a goal is good for them and
why should they care, then, that's part
00:41:09.649 --> 00:41:14.119
of the reason I believe that you get
these big disconnects between, it's just
00:41:14.149 --> 00:41:16.879
a job and I don't even really know what
this company's trying to accomplish.
00:41:17.209 --> 00:41:17.569
Sure.
00:41:18.184 --> 00:41:23.014
Then those people are obviously, the top
talent especially, they're more likely
00:41:23.014 --> 00:41:25.054
to go and find a company that does that.
00:41:25.354 --> 00:41:28.534
And so being able to attract
and train and retain top talent
00:41:29.044 --> 00:41:33.364
is, is, vital as in any company.
00:41:33.754 --> 00:41:33.904
Lliam: Yeah.
00:41:35.014 --> 00:41:39.814
I'd love to hear your thoughts
about growth mindset, right?
00:41:40.174 --> 00:41:42.419
These sort of founders and clearly.
00:41:44.180 --> 00:41:45.770
you were the growth mindset.
00:41:45.770 --> 00:41:49.009
You started this business at a
million dollars when you stepped in.
00:41:49.549 --> 00:41:53.630
You guys are literally 30 times
bigger than where you started.
00:41:53.930 --> 00:41:55.819
So clearly there's a growth mindset.
00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.180
I know when I look
across many of our peers,
00:42:01.580 --> 00:42:05.540
There are people who have that same
growth mindset versus people who are
00:42:05.839 --> 00:42:07.729
wanting to have that lifestyle business.
00:42:08.330 --> 00:42:12.109
But sometimes, how do I turn that,
how do I turn that into action?
00:42:13.700 --> 00:42:15.379
I'd love to hear from you.
00:42:16.009 --> 00:42:21.589
How are you able to turn your growth
mindset actual, actually into action?
00:42:23.750 --> 00:42:24.229
Clay: Wow.
00:42:24.529 --> 00:42:26.509
I think it probably evolved.
00:42:29.224 --> 00:42:36.484
As most things would, and that, we, I
remember, this, I remember in, shortly
00:42:36.484 --> 00:42:41.494
after I came to work, I told you earlier
that, my father used to set compensation.
00:42:43.220 --> 00:42:49.609
And when we, changed our compensation
model to one where people in
00:42:49.609 --> 00:42:53.240
sales could immediately know how
they were gonna be personally
00:42:53.240 --> 00:42:56.599
rewarded monetarily for success,
00:42:58.789 --> 00:43:00.890
that was a, time when I started to.
00:43:01.460 --> 00:43:06.379
Started to make sense to me personally
that, if I do more and do better
00:43:06.379 --> 00:43:10.730
and bigger and all that and more
efficiently, that it can benefit
00:43:10.730 --> 00:43:12.560
me and my family immediately.
00:43:12.649 --> 00:43:15.379
And of course, everybody in our
organization doesn't work on a
00:43:15.379 --> 00:43:17.330
con compensation model like that.
00:43:18.620 --> 00:43:26.540
but as a, as an owner, I think the growth
mindset for me was triggered by that,
00:43:26.540 --> 00:43:28.940
where I realized, the sky is the limit.
00:43:29.345 --> 00:43:33.995
As to what this business can bring,
to the people that work there.
00:43:34.414 --> 00:43:38.404
And we just wanted to, build on that.
00:43:38.404 --> 00:43:43.595
And then, making sure that everyone in the
organization who wasn't in a production
00:43:43.595 --> 00:43:47.404
role was also tied to growth is good.
00:43:47.765 --> 00:43:48.124
Yeah.
00:43:48.694 --> 00:43:51.214
And, growth can bring rewards.
00:43:52.024 --> 00:43:56.495
because many times in a business,
if you're in service, especially.
00:43:57.605 --> 00:43:58.654
Growth is bad.
00:43:59.645 --> 00:44:00.935
Growth is more work.
00:44:01.115 --> 00:44:01.595
Yes.
00:44:01.774 --> 00:44:05.944
And one of the things that I love
to talk about when I'm meeting
00:44:05.944 --> 00:44:10.565
with our new people is I show them
our revenue per employee matrix.
00:44:11.435 --> 00:44:15.904
And I show them, one year goal of this
and three year goal of that and all
00:44:15.904 --> 00:44:20.315
this, growth, And I say you're probably
sitting there going, I'm in service.
00:44:20.315 --> 00:44:22.675
This just means I'm gonna be
working till 6:00 PM every night.
00:44:24.005 --> 00:44:28.205
And, I assure them, I say one of the most
important metrics we have in this company
00:44:28.205 --> 00:44:31.265
is $250,000 of revenue per employee.
00:44:31.535 --> 00:44:36.694
So if we see that we grew by, X percent
or x number of dollars last year,
00:44:36.694 --> 00:44:38.674
we know we need five more people.
00:44:40.115 --> 00:44:45.275
And, that's good for you because,
Lliam, you're in service today.
00:44:45.275 --> 00:44:46.835
You're in service level one.
00:44:46.835 --> 00:44:49.390
But if we have five new people,
you've now got somebody to mentor.
00:44:50.420 --> 00:44:54.410
And somebody that you can be the
manager of and it's a promotion for you.
00:44:54.799 --> 00:44:57.740
And that gets people excited about growth.
00:44:58.250 --> 00:44:58.430
Yeah.
00:44:58.430 --> 00:45:00.410
Because people love promotions, right?
00:45:00.410 --> 00:45:04.310
People love getting a bonus because
they went from a junior to a senior.
00:45:05.270 --> 00:45:08.750
and so that, I think that's
the component that I.
00:45:09.289 --> 00:45:16.099
Have embraced, if you will, through
my, business life to say, how can
00:45:16.099 --> 00:45:20.209
we communicate to everyone in the
organization that growth is good?
00:45:20.689 --> 00:45:24.379
And not to mention from an
ownership standpoint, shareholder
00:45:24.379 --> 00:45:28.609
value, which is a, an important
term that we use at our company.
00:45:29.869 --> 00:45:35.509
every, everything we do to increase
the bottom line is bringing greater
00:45:35.629 --> 00:45:38.719
investment value to those people
who are invested in the business.
00:45:39.229 --> 00:45:39.560
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:45:39.620 --> 00:45:40.729
Lliam: So good thoughts.
00:45:41.990 --> 00:45:46.040
One thought I was thinking as you
were going through that, and you see
00:45:46.040 --> 00:45:47.509
a lot of people like this, right?
00:45:48.439 --> 00:45:50.359
And I think it's an easy litmus test.
00:45:51.499 --> 00:45:56.810
If new business feels
like wind in your sails
00:45:57.290 --> 00:45:58.549
You're probably doing something right.
00:45:59.330 --> 00:45:59.689
Yeah.
00:45:59.930 --> 00:46:04.310
If new business feels like an
anchor around your neck, you're
00:46:04.310 --> 00:46:05.839
probably doing something wrong.
00:46:06.350 --> 00:46:07.285
And, the reality of it is.
00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:13.339
It can feel like both, but I think that
it really, if you look at your staff,
00:46:13.339 --> 00:46:17.299
if you look at everyone else in your
company and you land a new customer
00:46:17.299 --> 00:46:19.850
and everybody goes, ah, exactly.
00:46:21.049 --> 00:46:23.000
You probably have some work to do.
00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:27.920
If everyone cheers, you're doing it right.
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:31.775
And I feel like that's a, that's
an easy litmus test, Clay, you've
00:46:31.775 --> 00:46:35.615
been so generous with your time
and, your knowledge and your talent,
00:46:35.615 --> 00:46:37.775
and I really am truly grateful.
00:46:37.805 --> 00:46:37.985
Thank you.
00:46:38.855 --> 00:46:42.755
I am gonna leave with, one last
question and I'd love to know.
00:46:42.779 --> 00:46:43.069
Okay.
00:46:43.955 --> 00:46:45.694
35 years later.
00:46:47.315 --> 00:46:50.045
Do you still feel dad's fingerprints on
00:46:50.075 --> 00:46:50.705
your business?
00:46:50.915 --> 00:46:52.535
Clay: Yeah, that's a great question.
00:46:53.944 --> 00:46:58.714
I do because I, I'm a
storyteller by nature.
00:46:59.464 --> 00:46:59.884
and.
00:47:00.365 --> 00:47:04.234
My nephew, Banks is his name.
00:47:04.234 --> 00:47:05.404
He's 22 years old.
00:47:05.404 --> 00:47:07.834
He just got his risk
management degree from Georgia.
00:47:07.834 --> 00:47:11.944
He started working for us January
the first, and I'm his mentor.
00:47:12.575 --> 00:47:16.774
And it's so funny that when I
started to work at Snellings
00:47:16.774 --> 00:47:20.524
Walters in 1986, my dad was my age.
00:47:21.244 --> 00:47:27.244
So I am now full circle playing
mentor to a 22-year-old.
00:47:27.244 --> 00:47:28.504
I'm 62 years old.
00:47:28.774 --> 00:47:34.339
And, It's just really cool and
I'm trying to emulate a lot of the
00:47:34.339 --> 00:47:42.379
things that my dad did well with
me, which was to teach me about what
00:47:42.379 --> 00:47:44.419
good customer service looked like.
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:47.719
One of his big mantras was
always, we're gonna always have
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:49.264
a live person answering phone.
00:47:50.089 --> 00:47:52.309
You know how That's changed, right?
00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:58.999
calling people back rather than sending,
email didn't exist in 1986, but picking
00:47:58.999 --> 00:48:04.009
up the phone and talking to people,
all of those kinds of just blocking
00:48:04.009 --> 00:48:10.819
and tackling type skill set habits
that a young person needs to learn.
00:48:12.515 --> 00:48:18.515
I look back on what my dad taught me,
and his pictures on the wall in the
00:48:18.515 --> 00:48:22.924
company and a lot of his principles
of how he started the business
00:48:23.225 --> 00:48:25.084
are still revered at our company.
00:48:25.444 --> 00:48:30.334
And so that obviously makes
me real proud because, My dad
00:48:30.334 --> 00:48:32.254
lived to be almost 95 years old.
00:48:32.254 --> 00:48:37.474
He only passed away seven years ago,
and when I would go and visit him at
00:48:37.534 --> 00:48:43.269
their home, his favorite question was,
what's going on at the insurance agency?
00:48:44.390 --> 00:48:50.660
To be able to talk about growth and to be
able to talk about additional owners and
00:48:50.660 --> 00:48:56.029
just all the stuff that, that he would
be able to appreciate and be proud of.
00:48:56.779 --> 00:49:01.450
that was some of the most fun,
conversations that we would have.
00:49:02.404 --> 00:49:02.734
Lliam: So what
00:49:02.734 --> 00:49:05.884
an honor and a privilege
to be able to, do that.
00:49:06.035 --> 00:49:06.274
Yeah.
00:49:06.785 --> 00:49:11.105
To have your dad proud of you, to be
able to service that and a blessing,
00:49:11.105 --> 00:49:15.004
to be able to turn around and pass
that now to another generation.
00:49:15.605 --> 00:49:16.984
That's truly a life's work.
00:49:17.194 --> 00:49:21.484
A blessing's, fun, both coming
and going and hey, I really do
00:49:21.484 --> 00:49:25.835
appreciate you coming in and sharing
your, wisdom and knowledge in this.
00:49:25.835 --> 00:49:26.404
My pleasure.
00:49:26.404 --> 00:49:26.425
My pleasure.