WEBVTT
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This is Beyond Reality.
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Hi Reese.
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Hello, how are you?
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I'm good.
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Thank you so much for joining me.
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Congratulations on a great game.
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How did you feel reliving it all?
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It's been wild.
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Like I've been doing these viewing parties uh in Melbourne where we've like, and Kirby comes along to them and we watched the episode with an audience, and like it's it's been wild to because look, I'll be honest, and I I'd imagine people pick this up from the way I was playing.
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I didn't expect to be there for very long.
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I didn't know, like, I didn't know that I was gonna last that long, and I was trying to, but I just think like, oh, I'm not a game player like this, and um it's been interesting watching it back.
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Say, for example, in the last episode, me and Kirby have a big fight, and getting the full context for things has been really interesting.
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Where when we were having that argument, or you know, I wouldn't even call it an argument, I was just screaming at Kirby.
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Um, I was certain that she was like not just gunning for me, but like gunning for me like hard and had like completely set me up.
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And then when I watch it back, I'm like, oh no, you were at times protecting me.
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And like two days ago I said to you, um use me if you need to, and then she did, and I got furious about it.
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But it's like, you know, kudos to the game for making us go crazy.
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Um, but it has been a joy because you just never know.
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I've never done a show like this before.
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Like, I've never been a contestant, like I've you know, Taskmaster, obviously, but like that's not a reality show, and you kind of are at least a little bit in charge of comedy there, and like, you know, it's a it's a it's a space that I'm comfortable in to be funny.
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But I was so even on a boring production level, I like started to worry that is this gonna be a season where they're trying to be because you know sometimes they're funny and sometimes they're not.
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Like sometimes they'll do a season that's kind of bouncy and camp, and then sometimes it'll be like a kind of darker one.
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Yeah.
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And I was worried, like, oh, if this is like a darker one, I'm not gonna be in this show.
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Like they're gonna cut me out, like because all I'm doing is trying to be funny the whole time.
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And so it's been fun watching like me be myself on television for the first time, kind of.
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Yeah, I mean, it's interesting how you say the different ways of cutting it, but I think that's always, you know, I'm a reality TV producer, so I feel like that's always led by the players, and I think the cast in this group was just bonkers.
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Yeah, it was such a great dynamic.
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I mean, you've you've covered a lot of ground in what you've just said, so I like I have so much to unpack with you.
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I mean, I've just noticed your t-shirt.
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Can I get a look at that?
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Yeah.
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The trade is gonna trade.
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Because I I I got out my little crafting cutting machine and for the finale, and I thought, like, I'm gonna I'll make myself a little t-shirt.
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Because I think maybe I think that the Instagram account for the traders are channeled headed someone and made like a joke that it should be a t-shirt.
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And I was like, no, I'll I'll I'll iron on, I'll do some craft this afternoon.
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Um yeah, and it's it's interesting, like, yeah, from a production level as well, like like like you say, you work in producing, and it's like what was strange to me as well was that um some of the story producers from Drag Race from when we used to film it were the story producers on this show, and so that was like quite fascinating to me to be like, oh, usually you're in my ear while I'm trying to make this person cry, and now you're like talking to, and I'm it's it's like it was a real like power shift of like, oh, are you trying to make me cry now?
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And like, as I'm sure you've heard from other contestants, I've having worked on the production side as well, it's like I thought they'd be really in our pockets and really like producing, like it's producing on a grand scale, and they are an incredible like team, and I'm not saying that in a suck up kind of way, like it was incredible what they're able to do, but they do not there's not a moment of go and talk to them, go and do that happen, like make you know, you know.
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On drag race, we're used to kind of like now everyone talk about the biggest trauma in your life, and then you know, they'll cut that together.
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There was just none of that, anyways.
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Yeah, it's one of those shows, like, I mean, I my background is Survivor, so you know, and the traders is that same sort of game which is very hands-off producing.
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You let the players play, yeah.
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But I can imagine coming from your TV background and like you say, that drag race, you would have had the paranoia of the actual gameplay, but then you've got this sort of paranoia level about producing and pr production and probably seeing things that weren't there.
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100%.
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There was a day, and this is like inside baseball, but like um it's not giving anything away.
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But there was a day that um Madeline Sami, the host of New Zealand, was like on set, kind of like just and she's a friend of mine, and she was on set purely to watch because we were filming just before they were starting to film theirs.
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And I, seeing my friend like standing in the corner, was suddenly like, what's happening?
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Are they doing something with like friends?
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Like, what's gonna happen?
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And it like it took one of the producers coming over later and going, just so you know, this has nothing to do with you or the show.
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Like, like because you are just and after I'd done Taskmaster, this is the other weird thing.
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Like, some of the people that had designed the challenges in the Taskmaster season that I was on were designing the challenges on this, and so I was seeing people from that, like when you've done enough of these types of shows, you start seeing the same people.
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And I was like getting triggered by, especially the last one that we did, the last challenge where I'm holding the jugs out as they're filling up with wine.
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Um, I remember saying to, um, oh my god, I'm blanking on their name, but who designed the challenge?
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Um, so is there any, is this like Taskmaster?
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And I said, Tell me if you can.
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Is it like Taskmaster where somewhere the list is hidden here?
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Like, can I sit?
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And she was like, No, like this, it's not that type of game.
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Wrong show.
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Like it, there's no way to do this without you just doing it.
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And I was like, okay, okay, okay, okay.
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I want to talk about that conversation with Kirby because it was one of the most incredible moments of the season because it was so real and it was so raw.
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And for me, as someone who's watched Kirby play Survivor, I've never seen someone break her like that.
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And for someone like you who's an entertainer as well, I felt like a wall came down and we just saw your true feelings, and there was there was no covering anything from either of you.
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So I think it was really powerful.
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Can you tell me about that?
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Yeah, it was like, you know, I've watched enough of traders to know when you and I said this in IVs as well, like I I knew that I was definitely a cog of some kind.
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Like there's no way to to when you when you're brought in late as a recruit, you you are part of a grand plan, and it's kind of up to you to try and weasel your way out of that.
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And I thought the only way that I could do that was just be like a usable member of the team.
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And and I I think on some level it did kind of work.
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It got to the point with Kirby where you can kind of see the change in her confessionals that were like, maybe we could do this together, like maybe this kind of could work out.
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And I think we were for a few days, they're both playing a game where I was pretending not to know that I was gonna be absolutely murdered if I didn't do something about it, and she was pretending that she was not gonna murder me, and we're gonna do this together, and we're gonna get there at the end.
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Um, and I think she had hung this is how I viewed it at least.
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The whole Tully thing, this is the closest I got to any kind of actual gameplay, I reckon, is like I could see that things were gonna turn on me because um when I'd asked her about what our final round table looks like, uh I was not on the list.
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And I was like, okay, so let's change that.
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Um and I thought we should have kept Tully, um, blah, blah, blah, all of this like cooking.
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And she'd hung what I felt like to be her whole game on me going in that second-last round table.
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And when that didn't happen because of Kira Chaos, it was like, well, you fuck this for both of us now.
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If Tully was here, this would be fine.
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We'd we'd be able to get rid of Josh, and then it would be you know, at least a slight and then now that you once you watch it back, you're also like, well, Tully was gonna turn on Kirby anyway, so blah blah blah blah blah blah.
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Um, but I wanted her to know that I know and that she did this.
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I remember thinking that, like, and being so angry, and it's funny because uh when I say, and just so you know, I'm not pissed, I was absolutely pissed.
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Um, but I was I think I was more also annoyed that she'd ruined it for herself.
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Like, I and I it's like a little bit like Tyra Banks, like I was rooting for you, but like the I felt like she'd cooked it and now she couldn't win either.
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Like, and I there was definitely moments that I was lying in bed that night being like, I'm gonna I know I'm gonna die tomorrow.
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I'm a sitting duck.
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And even at the start of the day, you can like see me at breakfast.
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I'm like really cold to her, and like cutting her off, talking and saying, like, and I'm I'm just I'm genuinely deciding whether I'm just gonna try and push it towards her, like, and just try and ruin the game for her.
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And then at a certain point, I think I just remembered that I was in a game and like she deserves to win.
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Like, I think I just had like I'm and you know, bless her for also, I do think she was genuine when she was like, I I think we can potentially fix this and try and make it happen.
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And I was like, sure.
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Like, I don't think it's gonna work, but yeah, let's try.
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Um, and there was a moment that we thought it was working, but all of this to say, I think I was just furious that there was a chance, and no shade on them, but there was a chance that by this happening, Kira or Chrissy were gonna go home with the money, and the from where I was standing, that didn't seem right to me.
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Like the I love them, I love the both of them, but it's like if you're gonna pick between them or like a a female athlete who is has a um renewable energy startup and like wants the money for her family and pay for her sister's wedding and all this kind of stuff, it's like or Chrissy could put it in her wallet next to the other$200,000 she carries around with her at all times.
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Like, yeah, and I'm just glad I was so nervous, like, once I got ousted, and I'm like sitting up in a room, not allowed to go near the window because they were filming that final fire scene, which I wish they had have kept.
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I wish I could have just been at the window, like waving.
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Um sadly watching, like yeah, it's just like guys, what happened?
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Is it Cam?
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Did Cam win?
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Um poor Cam.
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Oh Cam.
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Um, rough few days for Cam.
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I'm just so glad it ended the way that it did.
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And I I I'm glad that I didn't fuck her over.
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Because also it was like a momentary feeling of rage.
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I've been comparing it to like a couple having an argument, like where you just purge your spleen for a minute, and then you just go, all right, now let's keep being married.
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I mean, that's a really nice way to look at it, and I'm glad you kind of had that kind of full circle moment.
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But I guess it did feel like you'd you did whatever Kirby said for so long, and it was just that you you kind of had like Stockholm syndrome where you were just like, you know, whatever Kirby wants, and then this was you finally just being like letting it out.
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Yeah, well, it kind of was that, and I think it's interesting watching it back where I I was, of course, like I was trying to do, I think I was trying to do it's not like I had some wild gameplay, like I'm I'm not smart enough for that, but I think there was a part of me that was also trying to do what Kirby did so well to people.
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Like when you now watch her with, say, like the twins and her incredible, like way that she's kind of making them feel big and strong and like looked after and kind of like that was her incredible game.
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And I think I was probably trying to do a similar thing while also just trying to stay alive because I knew that she was probably gonna kill me, but it's like, but if I can just make you feel good and not lonely, and she also probably needed to keep me in, she wouldn't want to have to recruit again, like, because there's no one, I think, in that final five, even that you'd be like, there's no one else that she could take out, like, I think, in an easy way, and there's no one, you know, I'm a passive, I'm a passive person, and I think she knew that.
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Like, but I also think there was only so much I could take.
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There was only so much, like, I need you to know that I know you've been lying to me the whole time.
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I've known that, like, and I but all I could I didn't have a choice.
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If I had to try to turn on her early, could can you imagine, like, in the I remember I'd be laying in bed at night when I first became a traitor going, there's kind of nut she's done it so well that there's nothing I can do.
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Like, if I suddenly seem activated and I'm in trying to gun towards Kirby for the first time in the game, I'm gonna look like a traitor as well, and they'll knock me out.
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Like, I was the perfect scapegoat.
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Yeah, you obviously have the unique experience of being a faithful and a traitor, yeah.
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Uh, and you were a traitor that had heat on you while you were a faithful, yeah.
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And then it kind of went away.
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Yeah, when you became a traitor, people were like, Oh no, he's definitely not a traitor.
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Yeah, wild.
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Which did you genuinely enjoy more now that you've had a chance to play both?
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Oh, traitor, absolutely, like and I I think I had a very different experience to say Kirby, who was so exhausted by the end of it, where she blew she said something to me once in the conclave that really blew my mind.
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Where and it sounds it sounds like kind of like a nothing thing to say, but when you actually boil it down, it is crazy that she was like, Oh, well, because I don't know what it's like to be a faithful.
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And I was suddenly like, Oh, because I was kind of asking advice of like, well, what should I do?
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Like, you know, if I'm just give me tips of and she went, just keep being exactly yourself because you're a faithful, and I don't know what that is, so I can't give you advice about being a faithful.
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And I was like, Oh, right, like you've had a complete different experience in the game to me.
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And I think even that was part of it where we're you know, when we were having the fight, I saw how tired she was and suddenly was just like, you just need to win.
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Like, um it I definitely enjoyed it more because I I like having a task, very task-oriented, and I think I said it on the show, but it it's lonely being a faithful because even when you've got like an alliance, which I never had anyway, but when you've got an alliance, you're thinking the whole time, is this person playing me?
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Or you're like scared that you're playing them somehow or something, and it's an incredibly nerve-wracking experience, just not trusting anyone.
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Whereas at least when you're a trader, you might not trust each other, but you've at least got a view of the game, you're looking down on the game.
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Yeah, and I think that, and I was having more fun.
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This is a long bow, but it's like being a trader is kind of stand-up, like in terms of you're deciding what bit of a story to tell a group of people that is more useful to you to get your point across.
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And once you've got all of the information, you've got all of the and my husband was saying that to me the other night.
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He was like, Yeah, you're kind of like pushing.
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I I think I was a better trader.
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I'm not saying I was like a good trader, but I think I flourished more because I was able to kind of massage things and even use real feelings that I was having.
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Like, I felt really bad the night that Lawson went home, who I was quite devastated because we were like buddies in the show.
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Like we always sat next to each other, and I think we both had similar roles of just like a couple of dummies that are just happy to be there.
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Um, and that was the most heartbreak when we sent him home, that was the most heartbreaking thing for me because it was like, oh, I'm like part of my friend going home, but at the same time, there was something kind of delicious about it.
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Like the I think it's it's more fun, it's like you've got gossip and you can go around, like, and I was genuinely Josh was really upset that night, and me and Tully had like a drink with him in the pool room and chatted to him about it, and I was genuinely trying to make him feel better, but there's also a massive part of that that is me kind of going, like, we need people like you.
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Like I was trying to do a Kirby of like trying to be like, you're in him, you're an important part of this game, and you know, we're all just trying our best, and I think you're trying the hardest, Bobby, and watching him start to be like, Yeah, and I I've actually stopped thinking it was you, and I was just sitting there going, Oh my god, it's working.
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Working.
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Like it just, I think that was the thrilling part.
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Yeah.
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I know we need to wrap up, so I have one last question.
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It's such an intense game.
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How important is it, do you think, to have a sense of humor and to break the tension?
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Oh, hugely.
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Like, I think I don't I don't mean this in a way like I really got everyone through that, but I think purely, I'm sure I was very annoying at times as well.
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Like, I'm a I can be hugely annoying because I was just trying to be funny the whole time.
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But I think it was my unspoken kind of job on set to try and be silly.
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Like, cause I and I think I can't remember if I said this earlier, but I really like being on sets.
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Like, doesn't matter what kind of there's something kind of um, and you would know this, it's kind of like electric.
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Like it's kind of when you and when it's going well, when it's not going well, it's the worst feeling of all time.
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And there's an EP shouting at you and blah, blah, blah.
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Um, but when we're all working towards something and you're all starting to feel like I think we're making a good thing.
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Like, I think the difference is I'm I'm a very silly person and I am surrounded by very silly people.
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That is my whole life.
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I'm surrounded by silly people.
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And I think a few of the contestants aren't like, like, I think they take themselves very seriously, as they should.
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They have real jobs, some of them.
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Um, some of them don't.
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Uh, but the there were times that people reacted to me trying to be funny all the time as this kind of like weird.
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Like, I forget that people aren't surrounded by funny people all the time.
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It's like similar when someone says to me, Oh, like, oh yeah, I've never been to a stand-up show before.
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And you're like, Oh, that's right.
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You don't go to a stand-up show every night of your life.
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Like, that's that I have to do that.
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Um, so I but I did think it was important because people would be crying, like on set about being accused of being a traitor.
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And it's like, and early on as well, and it's like, guys, I don't think you actually murdered someone.
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I think Gretel Colleen touched your shoulder a couple days ago.
00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:29.610
That's the worst it could possibly be.
00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:36.009
Like just trying to be as silly as possible the whole time because everyone was taking it so seriously.
00:19:36.410 --> 00:19:38.250
Well, I loved seeing you on the show.
00:19:38.330 --> 00:19:41.049
I think you brought so much entertainment.
00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:45.210
Has it lit a fire in you for more competition reality shows?
00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:46.170
I don't know.
00:19:46.330 --> 00:19:52.650
I like I think it's definitely made me more, I don't know.
00:19:52.730 --> 00:19:56.970
I think I was very cynical for a long time and was probably like a bit of an asshole.
00:19:57.130 --> 00:20:00.330
Like, well, I'm an artsy comedian who does like arts festivals and blah, blah, blah.
00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:02.410
And I'd never do it, but I'm such a fan of traders.
00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:21.769
And then by doing it, have bit kind of been like, oh, I can see how great, like, I don't know, I think it's very easy, and you would know this as well, from like working, it's like, it's very easy to kind of trash shows like this and like to kind of and I have a lot of friends, like I reckon we have mutual friends that work on Survivor as well.
00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:29.930
Yeah, um DF, DF, DF, which was on a side note, very funny to like be throwing his name around in the first couple days.
00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:32.569
Um, because it's like Kirby knows DF.
00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:34.009
Hello, hello, Dave.
00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:40.009
Um, and and was like, oh yeah, and like my friend who I write with Alicia McCormack has worked on the show as well.
00:20:40.090 --> 00:20:54.250
And like they all had, and then you bring you bring names up with say someone like AJ, maybe, and they just have a different reaction, like, and it's like, oh like that's it's like it was just very fun for me to like I we have mutual friends.
00:20:54.330 --> 00:20:55.370
Oh, maybe not a friend.
00:20:55.529 --> 00:20:55.850
Okay.
00:20:56.330 --> 00:21:00.009
Um the uh um what was the original question?
00:21:00.090 --> 00:21:02.809
Um has a lit of fire in you to do more competition reality.
00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:06.730
I think I think sorry, I ramble so much, and my Dexie's running out.
00:21:06.970 --> 00:21:12.090
Um the I think I'm still scared of not knowing what's going on.
00:21:12.330 --> 00:21:16.170
I think I would be very open to like hosting one.
00:21:16.330 --> 00:21:19.210
I think it's like the funnest because that's the other thing as well.
00:21:19.370 --> 00:21:39.610
From being on drag race, all I think about is knowing when we'd be eating dinner at night as the judges, we'd all go out for dinner somewhere, and you you know in the back of your head that all the contestants are sitting in the studio, still being filmed at 2 a.m., sewing their their like garments together and trying to get it ready for tomorrow, and we're like eating a steak somewhere looking at our phones, and I kept feeling the opposite of that.
00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:49.690
Like I'm such a prissy person, be laying in bed at night just thinking Gretel's somewhere eating a salad, Gretel's Gretel's having a nice Pinot somewhere.
00:21:50.009 --> 00:21:51.930
She's she doesn't have to get up at five.
00:21:52.090 --> 00:21:53.210
I mean, she probably does, actually.
00:21:53.529 --> 00:21:57.769
But I think if the right thing came along, yes.
00:21:57.930 --> 00:22:01.210
I'm not into the physical ones, as we saw.
00:22:01.610 --> 00:22:07.930
Well, hopefully hopefully we do see you on something else because it's fun to watch you play the game.
00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:09.130
It was fun to be on it.
00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:12.250
I just you know, I prefer sitting around manners than running up hills.
00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:13.450
Well, thank you so much.
00:22:13.529 --> 00:22:15.450
I really appreciate you coming on the podcast.
00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:18.090
I can't wait to watch more of you on our television.
00:22:18.490 --> 00:22:18.890
Yeah, I know.
00:22:18.970 --> 00:22:23.370
I've lived in ABC World for a long time and finally commercial networks have noticed.
00:22:24.890 --> 00:22:26.890
This is beyond reality.
00:00:16.089 --> 00:00:18.009
This is Beyond Reality.
00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:18.890
Hi Reese.
00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:20.329
Hello, how are you?
00:00:20.489 --> 00:00:21.369
I'm good.
00:00:21.530 --> 00:00:23.289
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:00:23.449 --> 00:00:25.929
Congratulations on a great game.
00:00:26.170 --> 00:00:28.729
How did you feel reliving it all?
00:00:29.049 --> 00:00:30.009
It's been wild.
00:00:30.089 --> 00:00:45.450
Like I've been doing these viewing parties uh in Melbourne where we've like, and Kirby comes along to them and we watched the episode with an audience, and like it's it's been wild to because look, I'll be honest, and I I'd imagine people pick this up from the way I was playing.
00:00:45.609 --> 00:00:47.370
I didn't expect to be there for very long.
00:00:47.530 --> 00:01:00.890
I didn't know, like, I didn't know that I was gonna last that long, and I was trying to, but I just think like, oh, I'm not a game player like this, and um it's been interesting watching it back.
00:01:01.290 --> 00:01:08.969
Say, for example, in the last episode, me and Kirby have a big fight, and getting the full context for things has been really interesting.
00:01:09.209 --> 00:01:16.250
Where when we were having that argument, or you know, I wouldn't even call it an argument, I was just screaming at Kirby.
00:01:16.730 --> 00:01:23.210
Um, I was certain that she was like not just gunning for me, but like gunning for me like hard and had like completely set me up.
00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:27.130
And then when I watch it back, I'm like, oh no, you were at times protecting me.
00:01:27.370 --> 00:01:34.969
And like two days ago I said to you, um use me if you need to, and then she did, and I got furious about it.
00:01:35.049 --> 00:01:38.650
But it's like, you know, kudos to the game for making us go crazy.
00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:43.210
Um, but it has been a joy because you just never know.
00:01:43.290 --> 00:01:44.650
I've never done a show like this before.
00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:57.850
Like, I've never been a contestant, like I've you know, Taskmaster, obviously, but like that's not a reality show, and you kind of are at least a little bit in charge of comedy there, and like, you know, it's a it's a it's a space that I'm comfortable in to be funny.
00:01:58.010 --> 00:02:08.490
But I was so even on a boring production level, I like started to worry that is this gonna be a season where they're trying to be because you know sometimes they're funny and sometimes they're not.
00:02:08.650 --> 00:02:15.049
Like sometimes they'll do a season that's kind of bouncy and camp, and then sometimes it'll be like a kind of darker one.
00:02:15.129 --> 00:02:15.449
Yeah.
00:02:15.609 --> 00:02:20.729
And I was worried, like, oh, if this is like a darker one, I'm not gonna be in this show.
00:02:20.889 --> 00:02:25.609
Like they're gonna cut me out, like because all I'm doing is trying to be funny the whole time.
00:02:25.849 --> 00:02:32.169
And so it's been fun watching like me be myself on television for the first time, kind of.
00:02:32.489 --> 00:02:46.889
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting how you say the different ways of cutting it, but I think that's always, you know, I'm a reality TV producer, so I feel like that's always led by the players, and I think the cast in this group was just bonkers.
00:02:47.129 --> 00:02:50.810
Yeah, it was such a great dynamic.
00:02:50.889 --> 00:02:56.169
I mean, you've you've covered a lot of ground in what you've just said, so I like I have so much to unpack with you.
00:02:56.250 --> 00:02:57.929
I mean, I've just noticed your t-shirt.
00:02:58.089 --> 00:02:59.049
Can I get a look at that?
00:02:59.929 --> 00:03:00.489
Yeah.
00:03:00.889 --> 00:03:02.810
The trade is gonna trade.
00:03:03.849 --> 00:03:10.329
Because I I I got out my little crafting cutting machine and for the finale, and I thought, like, I'm gonna I'll make myself a little t-shirt.
00:03:10.409 --> 00:03:16.329
Because I think maybe I think that the Instagram account for the traders are channeled headed someone and made like a joke that it should be a t-shirt.
00:03:16.409 --> 00:03:20.810
And I was like, no, I'll I'll I'll iron on, I'll do some craft this afternoon.
00:03:21.209 --> 00:03:56.969
Um yeah, and it's it's interesting, like, yeah, from a production level as well, like like like you say, you work in producing, and it's like what was strange to me as well was that um some of the story producers from Drag Race from when we used to film it were the story producers on this show, and so that was like quite fascinating to me to be like, oh, usually you're in my ear while I'm trying to make this person cry, and now you're like talking to, and I'm it's it's like it was a real like power shift of like, oh, are you trying to make me cry now?
00:03:57.129 --> 00:04:23.610
And like, as I'm sure you've heard from other contestants, I've having worked on the production side as well, it's like I thought they'd be really in our pockets and really like producing, like it's producing on a grand scale, and they are an incredible like team, and I'm not saying that in a suck up kind of way, like it was incredible what they're able to do, but they do not there's not a moment of go and talk to them, go and do that happen, like make you know, you know.
00:04:23.769 --> 00:04:29.610
On drag race, we're used to kind of like now everyone talk about the biggest trauma in your life, and then you know, they'll cut that together.
00:04:29.689 --> 00:04:31.129
There was just none of that, anyways.
00:04:31.370 --> 00:04:38.729
Yeah, it's one of those shows, like, I mean, I my background is Survivor, so you know, and the traders is that same sort of game which is very hands-off producing.
00:04:38.810 --> 00:04:40.569
You let the players play, yeah.
00:04:40.729 --> 00:05:00.409
But I can imagine coming from your TV background and like you say, that drag race, you would have had the paranoia of the actual gameplay, but then you've got this sort of paranoia level about producing and pr production and probably seeing things that weren't there.
00:05:00.729 --> 00:05:01.370
100%.
00:05:01.689 --> 00:05:06.969
There was a day, and this is like inside baseball, but like um it's not giving anything away.
00:05:07.050 --> 00:05:24.729
But there was a day that um Madeline Sami, the host of New Zealand, was like on set, kind of like just and she's a friend of mine, and she was on set purely to watch because we were filming just before they were starting to film theirs.
00:05:24.969 --> 00:05:31.449
And I, seeing my friend like standing in the corner, was suddenly like, what's happening?
00:05:31.610 --> 00:05:33.529
Are they doing something with like friends?
00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:34.409
Like, what's gonna happen?
00:05:34.490 --> 00:05:39.689
And it like it took one of the producers coming over later and going, just so you know, this has nothing to do with you or the show.
00:05:39.849 --> 00:05:43.849
Like, like because you are just and after I'd done Taskmaster, this is the other weird thing.
00:05:43.930 --> 00:05:54.810
Like, some of the people that had designed the challenges in the Taskmaster season that I was on were designing the challenges on this, and so I was seeing people from that, like when you've done enough of these types of shows, you start seeing the same people.
00:05:55.289 --> 00:06:03.610
And I was like getting triggered by, especially the last one that we did, the last challenge where I'm holding the jugs out as they're filling up with wine.
00:06:03.930 --> 00:06:10.490
Um, I remember saying to, um, oh my god, I'm blanking on their name, but who designed the challenge?
00:06:10.649 --> 00:06:13.849
Um, so is there any, is this like Taskmaster?
00:06:13.930 --> 00:06:15.449
And I said, Tell me if you can.
00:06:15.610 --> 00:06:18.649
Is it like Taskmaster where somewhere the list is hidden here?
00:06:18.729 --> 00:06:19.370
Like, can I sit?
00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:22.810
And she was like, No, like this, it's not that type of game.
00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:23.769
Wrong show.
00:06:23.849 --> 00:06:26.009
Like it, there's no way to do this without you just doing it.
00:06:26.170 --> 00:06:27.769
And I was like, okay, okay, okay, okay.
00:06:28.009 --> 00:06:38.329
I want to talk about that conversation with Kirby because it was one of the most incredible moments of the season because it was so real and it was so raw.
00:06:38.490 --> 00:06:44.490
And for me, as someone who's watched Kirby play Survivor, I've never seen someone break her like that.
00:06:44.729 --> 00:06:58.009
And for someone like you who's an entertainer as well, I felt like a wall came down and we just saw your true feelings, and there was there was no covering anything from either of you.
00:06:58.170 --> 00:07:00.170
So I think it was really powerful.
00:07:00.329 --> 00:07:01.930
Can you tell me about that?
00:07:02.409 --> 00:07:16.969
Yeah, it was like, you know, I've watched enough of traders to know when you and I said this in IVs as well, like I I knew that I was definitely a cog of some kind.
00:07:17.129 --> 00:07:27.930
Like there's no way to to when you when you're brought in late as a recruit, you you are part of a grand plan, and it's kind of up to you to try and weasel your way out of that.
00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:32.409
And I thought the only way that I could do that was just be like a usable member of the team.
00:07:32.569 --> 00:07:35.209
And and I I think on some level it did kind of work.
00:07:35.289 --> 00:07:44.329
It got to the point with Kirby where you can kind of see the change in her confessionals that were like, maybe we could do this together, like maybe this kind of could work out.
00:07:44.649 --> 00:07:59.129
And I think we were for a few days, they're both playing a game where I was pretending not to know that I was gonna be absolutely murdered if I didn't do something about it, and she was pretending that she was not gonna murder me, and we're gonna do this together, and we're gonna get there at the end.
00:07:59.370 --> 00:08:05.370
Um, and I think she had hung this is how I viewed it at least.
00:08:05.610 --> 00:08:22.409
The whole Tully thing, this is the closest I got to any kind of actual gameplay, I reckon, is like I could see that things were gonna turn on me because um when I'd asked her about what our final round table looks like, uh I was not on the list.
00:08:22.649 --> 00:08:25.050
And I was like, okay, so let's change that.
00:08:25.129 --> 00:08:29.610
Um and I thought we should have kept Tully, um, blah, blah, blah, all of this like cooking.
00:08:30.569 --> 00:08:38.009
And she'd hung what I felt like to be her whole game on me going in that second-last round table.
00:08:38.170 --> 00:08:43.289
And when that didn't happen because of Kira Chaos, it was like, well, you fuck this for both of us now.
00:08:43.370 --> 00:08:45.289
If Tully was here, this would be fine.
00:08:45.370 --> 00:08:55.770
We'd we'd be able to get rid of Josh, and then it would be you know, at least a slight and then now that you once you watch it back, you're also like, well, Tully was gonna turn on Kirby anyway, so blah blah blah blah blah blah.
00:08:56.009 --> 00:09:00.890
Um, but I wanted her to know that I know and that she did this.
00:09:01.050 --> 00:09:09.930
I remember thinking that, like, and being so angry, and it's funny because uh when I say, and just so you know, I'm not pissed, I was absolutely pissed.
00:09:10.090 --> 00:09:15.690
Um, but I was I think I was more also annoyed that she'd ruined it for herself.
00:09:15.930 --> 00:09:26.890
Like, I and I it's like a little bit like Tyra Banks, like I was rooting for you, but like the I felt like she'd cooked it and now she couldn't win either.
00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:35.210
Like, and I there was definitely moments that I was lying in bed that night being like, I'm gonna I know I'm gonna die tomorrow.
00:09:35.290 --> 00:09:36.250
I'm a sitting duck.
00:09:36.410 --> 00:09:38.970
And even at the start of the day, you can like see me at breakfast.
00:09:39.129 --> 00:09:53.210
I'm like really cold to her, and like cutting her off, talking and saying, like, and I'm I'm just I'm genuinely deciding whether I'm just gonna try and push it towards her, like, and just try and ruin the game for her.
00:09:53.370 --> 00:10:01.770
And then at a certain point, I think I just remembered that I was in a game and like she deserves to win.
00:10:01.930 --> 00:10:11.370
Like, I think I just had like I'm and you know, bless her for also, I do think she was genuine when she was like, I I think we can potentially fix this and try and make it happen.
00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:13.210
And I was like, sure.
00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:16.570
Like, I don't think it's gonna work, but yeah, let's try.
00:10:16.730 --> 00:10:35.770
Um, and there was a moment that we thought it was working, but all of this to say, I think I was just furious that there was a chance, and no shade on them, but there was a chance that by this happening, Kira or Chrissy were gonna go home with the money, and the from where I was standing, that didn't seem right to me.
00:10:35.930 --> 00:11:02.890
Like the I love them, I love the both of them, but it's like if you're gonna pick between them or like a a female athlete who is has a um renewable energy startup and like wants the money for her family and pay for her sister's wedding and all this kind of stuff, it's like or Chrissy could put it in her wallet next to the other$200,000 she carries around with her at all times.
00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:15.450
Like, yeah, and I'm just glad I was so nervous, like, once I got ousted, and I'm like sitting up in a room, not allowed to go near the window because they were filming that final fire scene, which I wish they had have kept.
00:11:15.610 --> 00:11:17.850
I wish I could have just been at the window, like waving.
00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:23.690
Um sadly watching, like yeah, it's just like guys, what happened?
00:11:23.770 --> 00:11:24.730
Is it Cam?
00:11:25.050 --> 00:11:26.250
Did Cam win?
00:11:26.570 --> 00:11:27.930
Um poor Cam.
00:11:28.090 --> 00:11:28.970
Oh Cam.
00:11:29.370 --> 00:11:31.610
Um, rough few days for Cam.
00:11:31.770 --> 00:11:33.930
I'm just so glad it ended the way that it did.
00:11:34.009 --> 00:11:37.770
And I I I'm glad that I didn't fuck her over.
00:11:37.930 --> 00:11:41.530
Because also it was like a momentary feeling of rage.
00:11:41.770 --> 00:11:52.410
I've been comparing it to like a couple having an argument, like where you just purge your spleen for a minute, and then you just go, all right, now let's keep being married.
00:11:52.650 --> 00:11:58.730
I mean, that's a really nice way to look at it, and I'm glad you kind of had that kind of full circle moment.
00:11:58.810 --> 00:12:11.370
But I guess it did feel like you'd you did whatever Kirby said for so long, and it was just that you you kind of had like Stockholm syndrome where you were just like, you know, whatever Kirby wants, and then this was you finally just being like letting it out.
00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:29.850
Yeah, well, it kind of was that, and I think it's interesting watching it back where I I was, of course, like I was trying to do, I think I was trying to do it's not like I had some wild gameplay, like I'm I'm not smart enough for that, but I think there was a part of me that was also trying to do what Kirby did so well to people.
00:12:30.009 --> 00:12:45.129
Like when you now watch her with, say, like the twins and her incredible, like way that she's kind of making them feel big and strong and like looked after and kind of like that was her incredible game.
00:12:45.290 --> 00:13:12.730
And I think I was probably trying to do a similar thing while also just trying to stay alive because I knew that she was probably gonna kill me, but it's like, but if I can just make you feel good and not lonely, and she also probably needed to keep me in, she wouldn't want to have to recruit again, like, because there's no one, I think, in that final five, even that you'd be like, there's no one else that she could take out, like, I think, in an easy way, and there's no one, you know, I'm a passive, I'm a passive person, and I think she knew that.
00:13:12.890 --> 00:13:18.650
Like, but I also think there was only so much I could take.
00:13:19.050 --> 00:13:23.610
There was only so much, like, I need you to know that I know you've been lying to me the whole time.
00:13:23.770 --> 00:13:28.330
I've known that, like, and I but all I could I didn't have a choice.
00:13:28.650 --> 00:13:37.850
If I had to try to turn on her early, could can you imagine, like, in the I remember I'd be laying in bed at night when I first became a traitor going, there's kind of nut she's done it so well that there's nothing I can do.
00:13:38.090 --> 00:13:49.290
Like, if I suddenly seem activated and I'm in trying to gun towards Kirby for the first time in the game, I'm gonna look like a traitor as well, and they'll knock me out.
00:13:49.370 --> 00:13:50.570
Like, I was the perfect scapegoat.
00:13:50.810 --> 00:13:55.690
Yeah, you obviously have the unique experience of being a faithful and a traitor, yeah.
00:13:55.770 --> 00:14:00.730
Uh, and you were a traitor that had heat on you while you were a faithful, yeah.
00:14:00.810 --> 00:14:02.410
And then it kind of went away.
00:14:02.730 --> 00:14:06.330
Yeah, when you became a traitor, people were like, Oh no, he's definitely not a traitor.
00:14:06.570 --> 00:14:07.530
Yeah, wild.
00:14:07.770 --> 00:14:12.730
Which did you genuinely enjoy more now that you've had a chance to play both?
00:14:12.970 --> 00:14:25.210
Oh, traitor, absolutely, like and I I think I had a very different experience to say Kirby, who was so exhausted by the end of it, where she blew she said something to me once in the conclave that really blew my mind.
00:14:25.530 --> 00:14:35.050
Where and it sounds it sounds like kind of like a nothing thing to say, but when you actually boil it down, it is crazy that she was like, Oh, well, because I don't know what it's like to be a faithful.
00:14:35.530 --> 00:14:41.290
And I was suddenly like, Oh, because I was kind of asking advice of like, well, what should I do?
00:14:41.450 --> 00:14:52.170
Like, you know, if I'm just give me tips of and she went, just keep being exactly yourself because you're a faithful, and I don't know what that is, so I can't give you advice about being a faithful.
00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:58.009
And I was like, Oh, right, like you've had a complete different experience in the game to me.
00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:07.610
And I think even that was part of it where we're you know, when we were having the fight, I saw how tired she was and suddenly was just like, you just need to win.
00:15:07.770 --> 00:15:31.050
Like, um it I definitely enjoyed it more because I I like having a task, very task-oriented, and I think I said it on the show, but it it's lonely being a faithful because even when you've got like an alliance, which I never had anyway, but when you've got an alliance, you're thinking the whole time, is this person playing me?
00:15:31.210 --> 00:15:39.290
Or you're like scared that you're playing them somehow or something, and it's an incredibly nerve-wracking experience, just not trusting anyone.
00:15:39.370 --> 00:15:44.810
Whereas at least when you're a trader, you might not trust each other, but you've at least got a view of the game, you're looking down on the game.
00:15:47.530 --> 00:15:50.810
Yeah, and I think that, and I was having more fun.
00:15:52.009 --> 00:16:05.530
This is a long bow, but it's like being a trader is kind of stand-up, like in terms of you're deciding what bit of a story to tell a group of people that is more useful to you to get your point across.
00:16:05.770 --> 00:16:12.090
And once you've got all of the information, you've got all of the and my husband was saying that to me the other night.
00:16:12.170 --> 00:16:14.890
He was like, Yeah, you're kind of like pushing.
00:16:14.970 --> 00:16:16.410
I I think I was a better trader.
00:16:16.570 --> 00:16:27.290
I'm not saying I was like a good trader, but I think I flourished more because I was able to kind of massage things and even use real feelings that I was having.
00:16:27.370 --> 00:16:34.570
Like, I felt really bad the night that Lawson went home, who I was quite devastated because we were like buddies in the show.
00:16:34.650 --> 00:16:42.410
Like we always sat next to each other, and I think we both had similar roles of just like a couple of dummies that are just happy to be there.
00:16:42.730 --> 00:16:55.370
Um, and that was the most heartbreak when we sent him home, that was the most heartbreaking thing for me because it was like, oh, I'm like part of my friend going home, but at the same time, there was something kind of delicious about it.
00:16:55.530 --> 00:17:16.569
Like the I think it's it's more fun, it's like you've got gossip and you can go around, like, and I was genuinely Josh was really upset that night, and me and Tully had like a drink with him in the pool room and chatted to him about it, and I was genuinely trying to make him feel better, but there's also a massive part of that that is me kind of going, like, we need people like you.
00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:32.490
Like I was trying to do a Kirby of like trying to be like, you're in him, you're an important part of this game, and you know, we're all just trying our best, and I think you're trying the hardest, Bobby, and watching him start to be like, Yeah, and I I've actually stopped thinking it was you, and I was just sitting there going, Oh my god, it's working.
00:17:32.970 --> 00:17:33.690
Working.
00:17:34.009 --> 00:17:36.090
Like it just, I think that was the thrilling part.
00:17:36.250 --> 00:17:36.490
Yeah.
00:17:36.650 --> 00:17:39.529
I know we need to wrap up, so I have one last question.
00:17:39.769 --> 00:17:41.610
It's such an intense game.
00:17:41.850 --> 00:17:47.049
How important is it, do you think, to have a sense of humor and to break the tension?
00:17:47.370 --> 00:17:48.410
Oh, hugely.
00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:57.049
Like, I think I don't I don't mean this in a way like I really got everyone through that, but I think purely, I'm sure I was very annoying at times as well.
00:17:57.130 --> 00:18:00.890
Like, I'm a I can be hugely annoying because I was just trying to be funny the whole time.
00:18:01.049 --> 00:18:05.930
But I think it was my unspoken kind of job on set to try and be silly.
00:18:06.009 --> 00:18:11.769
Like, cause I and I think I can't remember if I said this earlier, but I really like being on sets.
00:18:11.930 --> 00:18:18.410
Like, doesn't matter what kind of there's something kind of um, and you would know this, it's kind of like electric.
00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:22.170
Like it's kind of when you and when it's going well, when it's not going well, it's the worst feeling of all time.
00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:25.370
And there's an EP shouting at you and blah, blah, blah.
00:18:25.610 --> 00:18:32.009
Um, but when we're all working towards something and you're all starting to feel like I think we're making a good thing.
00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:39.450
Like, I think the difference is I'm I'm a very silly person and I am surrounded by very silly people.
00:18:39.529 --> 00:18:40.330
That is my whole life.
00:18:40.410 --> 00:18:41.610
I'm surrounded by silly people.
00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:47.769
And I think a few of the contestants aren't like, like, I think they take themselves very seriously, as they should.
00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:49.289
They have real jobs, some of them.
00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:50.569
Um, some of them don't.
00:18:50.970 --> 00:18:57.529
Uh, but the there were times that people reacted to me trying to be funny all the time as this kind of like weird.
00:18:58.009 --> 00:19:01.930
Like, I forget that people aren't surrounded by funny people all the time.
00:19:02.009 --> 00:19:05.370
It's like similar when someone says to me, Oh, like, oh yeah, I've never been to a stand-up show before.
00:19:05.450 --> 00:19:06.250
And you're like, Oh, that's right.
00:19:06.330 --> 00:19:08.330
You don't go to a stand-up show every night of your life.
00:19:08.490 --> 00:19:10.250
Like, that's that I have to do that.
00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:18.970
Um, so I but I did think it was important because people would be crying, like on set about being accused of being a traitor.
00:19:19.049 --> 00:19:24.490
And it's like, and early on as well, and it's like, guys, I don't think you actually murdered someone.
00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:27.769
I think Gretel Colleen touched your shoulder a couple days ago.
00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:29.610
That's the worst it could possibly be.
00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:36.009
Like just trying to be as silly as possible the whole time because everyone was taking it so seriously.
00:19:36.410 --> 00:19:38.250
Well, I loved seeing you on the show.
00:19:38.330 --> 00:19:41.049
I think you brought so much entertainment.
00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:45.210
Has it lit a fire in you for more competition reality shows?
00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:46.170
I don't know.
00:19:46.330 --> 00:19:52.650
I like I think it's definitely made me more, I don't know.
00:19:52.730 --> 00:19:56.970
I think I was very cynical for a long time and was probably like a bit of an asshole.
00:19:57.130 --> 00:20:00.330
Like, well, I'm an artsy comedian who does like arts festivals and blah, blah, blah.
00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:02.410
And I'd never do it, but I'm such a fan of traders.
00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:21.769
And then by doing it, have bit kind of been like, oh, I can see how great, like, I don't know, I think it's very easy, and you would know this as well, from like working, it's like, it's very easy to kind of trash shows like this and like to kind of and I have a lot of friends, like I reckon we have mutual friends that work on Survivor as well.
00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:29.930
Yeah, um DF, DF, DF, which was on a side note, very funny to like be throwing his name around in the first couple days.
00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:32.569
Um, because it's like Kirby knows DF.
00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:34.009
Hello, hello, Dave.
00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:40.009
Um, and and was like, oh yeah, and like my friend who I write with Alicia McCormack has worked on the show as well.
00:20:40.090 --> 00:20:54.250
And like they all had, and then you bring you bring names up with say someone like AJ, maybe, and they just have a different reaction, like, and it's like, oh like that's it's like it was just very fun for me to like I we have mutual friends.
00:20:54.330 --> 00:20:55.370
Oh, maybe not a friend.
00:20:55.529 --> 00:20:55.850
Okay.
00:20:56.330 --> 00:21:00.009
Um the uh um what was the original question?
00:21:00.090 --> 00:21:02.809
Um has a lit of fire in you to do more competition reality.
00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:06.730
I think I think sorry, I ramble so much, and my Dexie's running out.
00:21:06.970 --> 00:21:12.090
Um the I think I'm still scared of not knowing what's going on.
00:21:12.330 --> 00:21:16.170
I think I would be very open to like hosting one.
00:21:16.330 --> 00:21:19.210
I think it's like the funnest because that's the other thing as well.
00:21:19.370 --> 00:21:39.610
From being on drag race, all I think about is knowing when we'd be eating dinner at night as the judges, we'd all go out for dinner somewhere, and you you know in the back of your head that all the contestants are sitting in the studio, still being filmed at 2 a.m., sewing their their like garments together and trying to get it ready for tomorrow, and we're like eating a steak somewhere looking at our phones, and I kept feeling the opposite of that.
00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:49.690
Like I'm such a prissy person, be laying in bed at night just thinking Gretel's somewhere eating a salad, Gretel's Gretel's having a nice Pinot somewhere.
00:21:50.009 --> 00:21:51.930
She's she doesn't have to get up at five.
00:21:52.090 --> 00:21:53.210
I mean, she probably does, actually.
00:21:53.529 --> 00:21:57.769
But I think if the right thing came along, yes.
00:21:57.930 --> 00:22:01.210
I'm not into the physical ones, as we saw.
00:22:01.610 --> 00:22:07.930
Well, hopefully hopefully we do see you on something else because it's fun to watch you play the game.
00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:09.130
It was fun to be on it.
00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:12.250
I just you know, I prefer sitting around manners than running up hills.
00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:13.450
Well, thank you so much.
00:22:13.529 --> 00:22:15.450
I really appreciate you coming on the podcast.
00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:18.090
I can't wait to watch more of you on our television.
00:22:18.490 --> 00:22:18.890
Yeah, I know.
00:22:18.970 --> 00:22:23.370
I've lived in ABC World for a long time and finally commercial networks have noticed.
00:22:24.890 --> 00:22:26.890
This is beyond reality.
