WEBVTT
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This is Beyond Reality.
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Hi, Josh.
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Hey, how are you going?
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I'm good.
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Thank you so much for joining me.
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How are you feeling after getting so close to the end?
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Yeah, it's been a wild ride.
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I definitely played hard and you know did some things right and then you know got a lot wrong, which is great entertainment.
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But ultimately, it you know, it's upsetting to be so close to the end and you've got a thought process in your mind of how you can win, and then it all crumbles in front of you.
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Uh, but you know, ultimately that's that's that's games for you, you know.
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Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and you you just have to accept that.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I want to talk more about that end game, but first I want to start with the fact that you entered the game with your twin brother Luke.
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Yeah.
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How much of an advantage was that?
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Or did you see it as a disadvantage in this game?
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Like a lot of people in there were trying to say it was an advantage, you know, but ultimately it's at a disadvantage because you're getting noticed.
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And at the start of the traders, the last thing you want to be is noticed.
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Because people are trying to find anything to go off, like a win, you know, like why's that person wearing red?
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Oh, they're a murderer, you know, like it could literally be anything.
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Um, because you don't have any proper clues yet.
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So when you're seeing two people that look the same, like, oh, okay, well, oh, it makes sense for one of them to be chosen as a trader, wouldn't it?
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Like, so and that is ultimately what was said, and we were expecting that to happen.
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Um, so ultimately, I don't think it's an advantage, I think it's a disadvantage.
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However, if you manage to get through together, you know, that first five or six round tables, then it can become really an advantage if because you then you can come together.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I can only assume that you went into the game assuming that one of you would be picked as a traitor.
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When you didn't get picked as a traitor, did you suspect Luke?
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Well, I wasn't really looking to become a traitor.
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Like early on, I was more happy to become a traitor if it happened later.
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So I was sort of relieved when I wasn't picked.
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But yeah, I did start suspecting Luke because look, we both go red.
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That's just like a natural reaction we have.
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But usually that is as a result of drinking, which you know, it was only water at the round table, so it's like it can't be from alcohol, or from like nerves and anxiety.
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So when I saw him take off the mask and he was red, I was like, Oh, he's been selected, he's already, you know, he's struggling to hold his nerve already.
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I was like, oh no, he's gonna pull me down with him.
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I'm gonna have to keep my distance.
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Um, and that's ultimately what we did.
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We're gonna try to keep our distance from each other anyway.
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But when he was red, I was like, okay, he could be a traitor, and I 100% have to keep my distance from him now.
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Yeah, but I mean, saying that, you obviously pretty quickly realized Luke wasn't a traitor.
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What are the tells that made you realize he wasn't a traitor?
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Is that just like twin intuition?
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Yeah, well, literally, I didn't speak to him for the first three or four days, like just in case.
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And I was like, oh mate, is he protecting me in the turret?
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Like um, but ultimately, obviously, as the numbers dwindle, there's less people around, so you're gonna bump into each other, and we ultimately had a quick chat.
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And all it took was I was like, Luke, are you a trade?
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He said no, and I like he's my twin.
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Um, I know if he's giving me a straight answer, he was like, No, I'm not.
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So I was like, okay, you don't have to worry about that now.
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Um, and that was it.
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Then I then I knew he was a faithful.
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Was there any times where people actually mixed you up and he did something that was suspicious that cast suspicion on you?
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Oh, like guilty as of twinism, I like to call it.
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Yeah, uh a hit of twinism.
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Um I'm trying to think, uh well, obviously when Henry was gunning for us both, like, yeah, Luke was being a little bit sus, but when Henry put me in the phone line too, I was like, hold on, what have I done?
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Like, why am I guilty of being a traitor?
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There really was nothing.
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I was like, okay, well, I'm guilty for being the twin.
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Like we're both we're both calling the shots in the turret, which is, you know, perfectly fine.
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We're all trying to go off nothing, but you know, I was expecting that.
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We were expecting that, and that's why it's a disadvantage, not an advantage.
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And Luke obviously went really hard at the beginning, and he kind of he took the lead in terms of traitor hunting.
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Is that typical of your dynamic?
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Is he typically the one to sort of take the lead and you're happy to sort of take more of a back seat?
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Yeah, I think like growing up, that's pretty much how it usually was.
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He's more on the front foot, a little bit more confident, especially as we're growing up, and I'll be more happy to you know follow follow suit.
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Um, as we've gotten older, I've sometimes taken the lead in certain aspects in business and so forth.
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But in in a gameplay like this, Luke's way more boisterous and mate way more of a risk taker.
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Um, and I I'll sort of listen to him in that regard.
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If he's like, this is who it is, I'd be like, okay, cool, I'll back it.
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You know, he won't, yeah, he he will struggle more to listen to what anyone else has to say.
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If he's got his blinkers on, it's it's done.
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Like, you know, I was trying to say to him after we got the first two catches, like, oh, we're gonna move on Kirby.
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It's like, no, we're moving on Claudia.
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I was like, really?
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He's like, yes.
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I was like, okay, all right.
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And you know, I had to try to come come around to the idea of Claudia being a trader, who I never ever suspected.
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But since it was my brother saying that to me and that he was gonna go at it that night, I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to get behind this, you know.
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We're together now, you know, we're a force, but I have to we have to be the one voice.
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I mean, you were kind of you know taking a back seat early on, but you definitely made up for it after your brother left.
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Poorly, poorly, you brought attached.
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Like, yeah, I need stability uh when it comes to you know being able to see things clearly.
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And the only person in there who had this my like stability for me was Tully, but Tully was also keeping her cards close to her chest, unbedanced to me.
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So, you know, I was ready to keep going for people, but I didn't have anyone saying, okay, let's think about this person instead and look at XYZ.
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I would say, okay, let's let's look at this person, and I was like, Yes, absolutely.
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I was like, okay, well, that gives me faith that I'm on the right, right path, you know.
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Yeah, I guess it makes it difficult when people are nervous to get it wrong or put something out there because you don't know who you can trust.
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So sometimes you have to just back yourself, which is obviously what you did.
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I always put my neck on the line.
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Like I'm never afraid to be to be wrong.
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And like I'm just super competitive and you know it's it's win or or lose.
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And but I'd rather try to hit the home run and then, you know, instead of you being walked and then you know, taken out on second base.
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You know, that's just the way I'd prefer to play.
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And you were obviously nominated for the death match where you beat your brother.
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If Luke had have stayed in the game, do you think he could have won?
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Uh there's such hard difficulty in hindsight.
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I think like potentially, I don't know who he was 100% thinking about at that point in time.
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I I think he trusted Kirby too much, and then you know, he I think if he got one more person wrong, he wouldn't have stopped.
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Like he just kept he probably kept would would have kept going for people.
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Um I think if he got one more wrong, then he might have, you know, really not been lost in there and been either murdered or just carried through with by Kirby because he didn't ever suspect Kirby.
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So I don't think he would have done any better.
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Well, that's good.
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We'll never we'll never know.
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No, we'll never know.
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But yeah, he never really he never suspected Kirby.
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So he he could have been dragged to the finale, as far as I'm concerned.
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Last night it was such a dramatic round table.
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It turned at the last minute.
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It feels like it could have been very different if you hadn't have told Chrissy that you thought she was a traitor.
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Do you think that was your biggest mistake?
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Uh well, ultimately it's really difficult going along with everyone else's gameplay at the end because I was so used to it being off what I was thinking and how I wanted to play and taking that responsibility.
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And when everyone was going Reese and Reese defending him defending themselves very well, I was like, oh hold on, Kirby's staying really quiet here.
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I need to ask what Kirby's thinking, and that's when Kira attacked me.
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Hold on, this is all going too smoothly.
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Like, I want to go for Chrissy because Chrissy's been coming after me.
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And if Chrissy went, obviously as a faithful, I wouldn't have care.
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Because I would have been okay, then I now know 100% that it's Kirby and Reese, and I would have just hit them so hard that day on that finale, I would have just gone at them guns blazing to make sure Kira sees that as well.
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Um, so I was I would I'm always fine to take out faithfuls towards the end because it at the end of the day, you have to be ruthless.
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I don't want to finish with you know three other faithfuls.
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I want to win win with one faithful.
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But I just mean Chrissy has a reputation of basically revenge voting at the table.
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If you tell her you're voting for her, she's gonna come for you.
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And she changed her vote.
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Yeah, but the problem was like when Kira started coming for me, and then Chrissy jumped on that bandwagon.
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I was like, well, who I've got two people left for the table here, Reese and Kirby.
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I've got potentially three votes because Kira's got the bagger on me.
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I have to now try to get Reese and Kirby to go for someone.
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I was like, let's go, Chrissy.
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We got to take on Chrissy.
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Um, but yeah, I was literally scratching and pouring.
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I was pretty lost at that point.
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I was in a bit of a shock, to be honest with you.
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I didn't think I was gonna get attacked like that at the round table.
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Um, so I was clawing just to survive.
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I was gonna do anything to survive.
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You were up against two traders and Chrissy, who is just so dangerous at that round table, and Kira, who's such a wild card.
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So I don't blame you.
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No, I was like, oh, now I have to take it on again.
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Like this is not is not the way I wanted it to be.
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I want to talk about Kirby because obviously you started the game suspicious of Kirby.
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You were trying to get your brother to suspect Kirby and on board for a Kirby vote.
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What was your relationship like and how did it change over time?
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Because you became convinced that Kirby was a faithful.
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I wouldn't say 100% convinced.
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Um, because obviously there were three people in that final seven who I was happy to go to endgame with, and that was Ali number one, then Kira number two, then Kirby number three.
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Um, because that was four people, then we could take out the others.
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That was in my vision that I would be, and then I could take out Kirby and Kira.
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I was only ever gonna want him to finish with one person.
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Um But yeah, we had like this tumultuous relationship where I would be really big on Kirby and then I would speak to people who I trust, and then uh say no, like Justin, we gotta like no, you're on the wrong path there.
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So then I'd be like, okay, I'll let that go.
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Um because ultimately it's a social game, and you need obviously people backing your thoughts, especially if you're gonna bring it up, in my opinion, um, before putting your neck on the line and giving out your thoughts so openly and could make yourself vulnerable.
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Every time I'd come to people and say Kirby, they'll say no.
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So I'd be like, Okay, well, everyone I'm trusting is shutting me down, I just have to let it go.
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Maybe I maybe I have to see her as a faithful.
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Um, but there was always question marks on Kirby.
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Um so when you were saying you trusted her, you were playing her a little bit as well.
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When when did I say I trusted Kirby?
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At the round table.
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Oh, yeah, but that's because I had Chrissy and Kira coming for me, and I'm trying to get Kirby and Reese to go for Chrissy.
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Like that was my last, that was the last throw of the dice, you know.
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Um, ultimately, I was happy to go to the end game with Kira and Kirby from those last five, and then hope that Kira would choose me because I was always going to throw in red.
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Um, there was no secret I was I wasn't gonna want to split with three people.
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It's too big of a risk.
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And you know, uh ultimately it'd be a bit greedy.
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I'd want more of the of the of the money.
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Like, you know, it's traders.
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The traders are happy to take money off you, like, you know, we already have to split it, may as well only be two people.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I mean, that's how I feel.
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I mean, if there's any doubt in your mind that someone could be a trader, you may as well banish them.
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Yeah, that's why I always said, um, you know, when Kira saw Kirby as more trustworthy than myself, I was like, hey, well, if someone chucks in red, um, you know, ultimately they're probably gonna pick themselves over me, which is a huge concern because I would definitely be one of the people chucking in red.
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Oh, well, this is not going down the way I it I saw it happening with Kira, and that's when I was like, yeah, missing Tully at that point in time.
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The Lawson vote, you were vomiting after that, or almost vomiting, feeling so I mean, what were you feeling in that moment?
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And did you expect the game to affect you this much?
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Yeah, I mean, well, you've you're you're feeling like so much emotion when you're there because that becomes your world, you know.
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Anyone who's done reality TV that can express like you forget your normal life, and that becomes your everyday normal life.
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So it matters so much.
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Um it really does.
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You start, you know, thinking if you make this mistake, how's it gonna affect the end game?
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And you know, you've just ruined that person's game who you potentially could have won with.
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Um so I had all these built-up nerves and emotion, but I do I've got a hernia, um, and I can naturally just start feeling sick.
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Um from drinking or from nerves, I can.
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Um and you know, I definitely got um like the acid reflux, and it can make me feel a bit bit sick, but I didn't throw up, it was just um it was close to it.
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So did you actually feel sick with guilt?
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Oh, there's a bit of gifts, there's definitely guilt there, but it's it's from like the nerves, like especially because I was drinking as well um straight afterwards.
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I definitely went for one too strong after that round table, and with that in the um with my acid reflux is is not good.
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Well, I can imagine needing a drink like a really strong drink after those round tables.
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I went for a strong one.
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It was a little too strong.
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With your relationship with Kirby, was there anything in particular that she was doing that you can see that she was actually manipulating?
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Uh, there was actually this one moment in time and I never really got to speak to anyone about it.
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Uh, after we took out uh Alex from the at that round table, like I ultimately was very certain Alex was a trailer because she couldn't even defend herself at the end there against me when I came forward to her.
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Um but no one really celebrated too much when we got Alex, but Kirby did, and I was faking it.
00:16:32.009 --> 00:16:36.810
I faked the celebration because I thought everyone would celebrate, and Kirby did the same.
00:16:36.890 --> 00:16:39.370
I looked at Kirby was like, Why are you celebrating?
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We kind of both looked at each other, and I was like, This, wait, why are you celebrating like this as well?
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No one else is, and that kind of was like, Oh, that was an alarm bell to me.
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Um, but in the morning that my brother was so certain on Claudia, I said to him, We're moving on Kirby, right?
00:16:58.009 --> 00:16:59.290
He was like, No, Josh, no.
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I was like, oh.
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Because I had these this thought process from the night before of what's just happened.
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I was ready to bring that up at the round table.
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But you know, ultimately that got changed very quickly when Luke wanted to go for Claudia.
00:17:12.250 --> 00:17:18.970
I think you you boys, both of you had such an interesting dynamic because you were both on the right path at different times.
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And sometimes you would come together and it would all work out, and other times you would like lead each other astray, and it was so frustrating.
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Yeah, like I really I always need someone who's got more stability because I'm a bit chaotic.
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But I need to be able to chat to someone and you know, discuss my thoughts.
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And if they're like, no, like you're completely on the wrong path, then I I will listen, I'll drop it.
00:17:42.250 --> 00:17:46.330
But you know, if someone goes to me, yes, then I'll start believing it more.
00:17:46.490 --> 00:17:55.930
Or if they come to me if I if they're a stable person, go, okay, this is why I think it's this person for what they've done here and here, I would be like, okay, that makes sense.
00:17:56.090 --> 00:17:59.690
But the stable people in there always kept very quiet.
00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:10.490
You know, I needed, you know, the likes of Ali or Lawson to come forward and say to me, okay, this is why I think it's Kirby, they've done this, this, and this.
00:18:10.569 --> 00:18:11.610
Let's go from tonight.
00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:13.289
But it never happened, you know.
00:18:13.529 --> 00:18:16.650
And there was so much information that people kept to themselves.
00:18:16.970 --> 00:18:17.769
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:17.930 --> 00:18:36.970
Well, you got rid of Lawson, so yeah, I felt so bad about that, but ultimately so many people kept information to themselves, which if they had told me, I could have been like, okay, well, that means that person's excused, and let's divert our attention to to Reese or Curdy.
00:18:37.289 --> 00:18:38.330
Yeah, definitely.
00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:45.049
It's it's one of those games, it's very easy to sit back and watch and say you know what should happen when you've got all the information.
00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:46.730
But I can imagine it's very complicated.
00:18:46.970 --> 00:18:47.690
Oh, easy.
00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:51.450
So easy to be a viewer and saying, Oh, you know, it's so easy.
00:18:51.610 --> 00:18:53.049
It should so obvious.
00:18:53.210 --> 00:19:02.410
Well, literally play it with eight friends at at um at home, like over a few drinks, like over a you know, what's it called, mafia?
00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:04.890
And then you you realize how hard it is, and they're people that you know.
00:19:05.529 --> 00:19:08.090
I have one last question before the quick fire questions.
00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:10.250
You've been on Love Island and the block.
00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:14.650
How did these experiences prepare you for the traitors?
00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:19.690
Uh I think it's just made me like more confident in myself.
00:19:19.850 --> 00:19:24.809
You know, I actually I've never been the most confident person when I'm when walking into a room.
00:19:24.890 --> 00:19:28.650
And I usually I really don't like it when I have the spotlight just on me.
00:19:28.809 --> 00:19:33.850
You know, like if I was on the news and it was live, I would be freaking out.
00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:40.650
But ultimately, over time, I've got used to it and got more confident in myself and not really worried what people think.
00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:47.289
So that's given me the ability to go on a show like this and be like, okay, like if I make mistakes, so what?
00:19:47.370 --> 00:19:51.370
I'm just gonna give it my on and be myself, and that's fine.
00:19:51.610 --> 00:20:00.170
And I think those experiences have led me to hold that belief about myself and ultimately, you know, do things other people might not be willing to do.
00:20:00.330 --> 00:20:05.529
Yeah, no one wants a cast full of people that aren't willing to put out what they really think.
00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:10.170
So if if everyone was doing that, it wouldn't be very as entertaining as it has been.
00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:14.410
So maybe Johnson looks in the in the TV world, that's for sure.
00:20:14.730 --> 00:20:16.730
I'd love to get some quick fire questions.
00:20:16.970 --> 00:20:17.930
Ready, straight, let's go.
00:20:18.330 --> 00:20:20.330
If you were a trader, who would you murder first?
00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:24.009
Chrissy, just because my, you know, as a revenge.
00:20:24.410 --> 00:20:27.370
Who are you most starstruck by arriving at the manor?
00:20:28.090 --> 00:20:28.650
What an icon.
00:20:29.529 --> 00:20:32.410
If you could be on any other reality show, what would you be on?
00:20:32.809 --> 00:20:37.769
Amazing race, I think, because with Luke, we're always a tag team.
00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:42.330
I mean, I'd love to do Survivor, but since Luke and I always do things together, I'd say amazing race.
00:20:42.569 --> 00:20:46.250
Which Australian celebrity would you like to see on the next season of The Traitors?
00:20:46.410 --> 00:20:47.769
Uh Ian Thorpe.
00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:52.170
Or what about um Keith?
00:20:52.890 --> 00:20:54.650
No, Keith from the blog.
00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:56.809
Yeah, let's get Keith on.
00:20:57.289 --> 00:20:58.650
That would be great.
00:20:58.970 --> 00:21:00.410
It's so entertaining.
00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:02.490
Get Keith back on our screens.
00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:03.529
Yeah, get him back.
00:21:04.970 --> 00:21:05.610
Great man.
00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:06.410
Get him in.
00:21:06.730 --> 00:21:08.809
Josh, thank you so much for your time.
00:21:08.890 --> 00:21:10.009
I really appreciate it.
00:21:10.569 --> 00:21:11.130
All good.
00:21:11.370 --> 00:21:12.330
Enjoy the finale.
00:21:12.650 --> 00:21:13.370
We're gonna be good.
00:21:13.850 --> 00:21:15.769
This is beyond reality.
00:00:16.089 --> 00:00:18.410
This is Beyond Reality.
00:00:18.649 --> 00:00:19.530
Hi, Josh.
00:00:19.689 --> 00:00:20.570
Hey, how are you going?
00:00:20.809 --> 00:00:21.289
I'm good.
00:00:21.449 --> 00:00:23.289
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:00:23.530 --> 00:00:27.129
How are you feeling after getting so close to the end?
00:00:27.289 --> 00:00:28.649
Yeah, it's been a wild ride.
00:00:29.049 --> 00:00:37.210
I definitely played hard and you know did some things right and then you know got a lot wrong, which is great entertainment.
00:00:37.450 --> 00:00:50.010
But ultimately, it you know, it's upsetting to be so close to the end and you've got a thought process in your mind of how you can win, and then it all crumbles in front of you.
00:00:50.170 --> 00:00:55.689
Uh, but you know, ultimately that's that's that's games for you, you know.
00:00:55.769 --> 00:01:00.170
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and you you just have to accept that.
00:01:00.409 --> 00:01:01.530
Yeah, definitely.
00:01:01.689 --> 00:01:09.689
I want to talk more about that end game, but first I want to start with the fact that you entered the game with your twin brother Luke.
00:01:10.329 --> 00:01:10.730
Yeah.
00:01:10.969 --> 00:01:12.810
How much of an advantage was that?
00:01:12.969 --> 00:01:15.290
Or did you see it as a disadvantage in this game?
00:01:15.530 --> 00:01:22.650
Like a lot of people in there were trying to say it was an advantage, you know, but ultimately it's at a disadvantage because you're getting noticed.
00:01:22.810 --> 00:01:27.930
And at the start of the traders, the last thing you want to be is noticed.
00:01:28.570 --> 00:01:34.090
Because people are trying to find anything to go off, like a win, you know, like why's that person wearing red?
00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:37.210
Oh, they're a murderer, you know, like it could literally be anything.
00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:40.650
Um, because you don't have any proper clues yet.
00:01:40.890 --> 00:01:47.450
So when you're seeing two people that look the same, like, oh, okay, well, oh, it makes sense for one of them to be chosen as a trader, wouldn't it?
00:01:47.689 --> 00:01:53.850
Like, so and that is ultimately what was said, and we were expecting that to happen.
00:01:54.010 --> 00:01:58.490
Um, so ultimately, I don't think it's an advantage, I think it's a disadvantage.
00:01:58.730 --> 00:02:10.969
However, if you manage to get through together, you know, that first five or six round tables, then it can become really an advantage if because you then you can come together.
00:02:11.210 --> 00:02:12.329
Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:12.569 --> 00:02:18.569
I can only assume that you went into the game assuming that one of you would be picked as a traitor.
00:02:18.889 --> 00:02:22.329
When you didn't get picked as a traitor, did you suspect Luke?
00:02:22.569 --> 00:02:27.530
Well, I wasn't really looking to become a traitor.
00:02:27.769 --> 00:02:31.289
Like early on, I was more happy to become a traitor if it happened later.
00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:34.009
So I was sort of relieved when I wasn't picked.
00:02:34.169 --> 00:02:38.649
But yeah, I did start suspecting Luke because look, we both go red.
00:02:38.729 --> 00:02:40.729
That's just like a natural reaction we have.
00:02:40.969 --> 00:02:51.849
But usually that is as a result of drinking, which you know, it was only water at the round table, so it's like it can't be from alcohol, or from like nerves and anxiety.
00:02:52.089 --> 00:03:00.489
So when I saw him take off the mask and he was red, I was like, Oh, he's been selected, he's already, you know, he's struggling to hold his nerve already.
00:03:00.729 --> 00:03:03.689
I was like, oh no, he's gonna pull me down with him.
00:03:03.769 --> 00:03:05.609
I'm gonna have to keep my distance.
00:03:05.769 --> 00:03:07.689
Um, and that's ultimately what we did.
00:03:07.769 --> 00:03:11.049
We're gonna try to keep our distance from each other anyway.
00:03:11.289 --> 00:03:18.329
But when he was red, I was like, okay, he could be a traitor, and I 100% have to keep my distance from him now.
00:03:18.649 --> 00:03:25.929
Yeah, but I mean, saying that, you obviously pretty quickly realized Luke wasn't a traitor.
00:03:26.169 --> 00:03:29.769
What are the tells that made you realize he wasn't a traitor?
00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:31.609
Is that just like twin intuition?
00:03:31.929 --> 00:03:37.689
Yeah, well, literally, I didn't speak to him for the first three or four days, like just in case.
00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:41.289
And I was like, oh mate, is he protecting me in the turret?
00:03:41.530 --> 00:03:52.569
Like um, but ultimately, obviously, as the numbers dwindle, there's less people around, so you're gonna bump into each other, and we ultimately had a quick chat.
00:03:52.649 --> 00:03:54.969
And all it took was I was like, Luke, are you a trade?
00:03:55.369 --> 00:03:58.009
He said no, and I like he's my twin.
00:03:58.169 --> 00:04:02.169
Um, I know if he's giving me a straight answer, he was like, No, I'm not.
00:04:02.250 --> 00:04:05.289
So I was like, okay, you don't have to worry about that now.
00:04:05.609 --> 00:04:06.649
Um, and that was it.
00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:08.489
Then I then I knew he was a faithful.
00:04:08.729 --> 00:04:15.849
Was there any times where people actually mixed you up and he did something that was suspicious that cast suspicion on you?
00:04:16.089 --> 00:04:21.370
Oh, like guilty as of twinism, I like to call it.
00:04:22.009 --> 00:04:24.009
Yeah, uh a hit of twinism.
00:04:24.250 --> 00:04:38.649
Um I'm trying to think, uh well, obviously when Henry was gunning for us both, like, yeah, Luke was being a little bit sus, but when Henry put me in the phone line too, I was like, hold on, what have I done?
00:04:38.969 --> 00:04:40.729
Like, why am I guilty of being a traitor?
00:04:40.889 --> 00:04:41.610
There really was nothing.
00:04:41.689 --> 00:04:44.170
I was like, okay, well, I'm guilty for being the twin.
00:04:44.250 --> 00:04:49.129
Like we're both we're both calling the shots in the turret, which is, you know, perfectly fine.
00:04:49.209 --> 00:04:53.689
We're all trying to go off nothing, but you know, I was expecting that.
00:04:53.849 --> 00:04:56.969
We were expecting that, and that's why it's a disadvantage, not an advantage.
00:04:57.209 --> 00:05:04.490
And Luke obviously went really hard at the beginning, and he kind of he took the lead in terms of traitor hunting.
00:05:04.729 --> 00:05:06.889
Is that typical of your dynamic?
00:05:07.050 --> 00:05:11.610
Is he typically the one to sort of take the lead and you're happy to sort of take more of a back seat?
00:05:11.849 --> 00:05:15.209
Yeah, I think like growing up, that's pretty much how it usually was.
00:05:15.289 --> 00:05:23.370
He's more on the front foot, a little bit more confident, especially as we're growing up, and I'll be more happy to you know follow follow suit.
00:05:23.529 --> 00:05:28.969
Um, as we've gotten older, I've sometimes taken the lead in certain aspects in business and so forth.
00:05:29.209 --> 00:05:35.129
But in in a gameplay like this, Luke's way more boisterous and mate way more of a risk taker.
00:05:35.449 --> 00:05:39.209
Um, and I I'll sort of listen to him in that regard.
00:05:39.289 --> 00:05:42.969
If he's like, this is who it is, I'd be like, okay, cool, I'll back it.
00:05:43.449 --> 00:05:49.769
You know, he won't, yeah, he he will struggle more to listen to what anyone else has to say.
00:05:49.930 --> 00:05:52.810
If he's got his blinkers on, it's it's done.
00:05:52.889 --> 00:06:00.250
Like, you know, I was trying to say to him after we got the first two catches, like, oh, we're gonna move on Kirby.
00:06:00.409 --> 00:06:03.610
It's like, no, we're moving on Claudia.
00:06:03.769 --> 00:06:04.409
I was like, really?
00:06:04.649 --> 00:06:05.529
He's like, yes.
00:06:05.849 --> 00:06:07.050
I was like, okay, all right.
00:06:07.209 --> 00:06:13.689
And you know, I had to try to come come around to the idea of Claudia being a trader, who I never ever suspected.
00:06:13.930 --> 00:06:22.170
But since it was my brother saying that to me and that he was gonna go at it that night, I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to get behind this, you know.
00:06:22.250 --> 00:06:27.209
We're together now, you know, we're a force, but I have to we have to be the one voice.
00:06:27.529 --> 00:06:33.930
I mean, you were kind of you know taking a back seat early on, but you definitely made up for it after your brother left.
00:06:34.250 --> 00:06:38.329
Poorly, poorly, you brought attached.
00:06:39.209 --> 00:06:46.810
Like, yeah, I need stability uh when it comes to you know being able to see things clearly.
00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:58.170
And the only person in there who had this my like stability for me was Tully, but Tully was also keeping her cards close to her chest, unbedanced to me.
00:06:58.329 --> 00:07:06.889
So, you know, I was ready to keep going for people, but I didn't have anyone saying, okay, let's think about this person instead and look at XYZ.
00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:11.050
I would say, okay, let's let's look at this person, and I was like, Yes, absolutely.
00:07:11.129 --> 00:07:15.370
I was like, okay, well, that gives me faith that I'm on the right, right path, you know.
00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:23.449
Yeah, I guess it makes it difficult when people are nervous to get it wrong or put something out there because you don't know who you can trust.
00:07:23.529 --> 00:07:27.930
So sometimes you have to just back yourself, which is obviously what you did.
00:07:28.569 --> 00:07:30.009
I always put my neck on the line.
00:07:30.089 --> 00:07:32.409
Like I'm never afraid to be to be wrong.
00:07:32.490 --> 00:07:38.170
And like I'm just super competitive and you know it's it's win or or lose.
00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:45.849
And but I'd rather try to hit the home run and then, you know, instead of you being walked and then you know, taken out on second base.
00:07:45.930 --> 00:07:47.930
You know, that's just the way I'd prefer to play.
00:07:48.250 --> 00:07:53.289
And you were obviously nominated for the death match where you beat your brother.
00:07:53.449 --> 00:07:57.050
If Luke had have stayed in the game, do you think he could have won?
00:07:57.449 --> 00:08:00.649
Uh there's such hard difficulty in hindsight.
00:08:00.729 --> 00:08:08.969
I think like potentially, I don't know who he was 100% thinking about at that point in time.
00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:17.370
I I think he trusted Kirby too much, and then you know, he I think if he got one more person wrong, he wouldn't have stopped.
00:08:17.529 --> 00:08:22.089
Like he just kept he probably kept would would have kept going for people.
00:08:22.729 --> 00:08:35.129
Um I think if he got one more wrong, then he might have, you know, really not been lost in there and been either murdered or just carried through with by Kirby because he didn't ever suspect Kirby.
00:08:35.210 --> 00:08:38.009
So I don't think he would have done any better.
00:08:38.810 --> 00:08:39.529
Well, that's good.
00:08:39.610 --> 00:08:40.889
We'll never we'll never know.
00:08:41.129 --> 00:08:42.090
No, we'll never know.
00:08:42.170 --> 00:08:44.649
But yeah, he never really he never suspected Kirby.
00:08:44.730 --> 00:08:48.570
So he he could have been dragged to the finale, as far as I'm concerned.
00:08:48.810 --> 00:08:51.770
Last night it was such a dramatic round table.
00:08:52.009 --> 00:08:53.370
It turned at the last minute.
00:08:53.530 --> 00:09:00.330
It feels like it could have been very different if you hadn't have told Chrissy that you thought she was a traitor.
00:09:00.490 --> 00:09:02.650
Do you think that was your biggest mistake?
00:09:02.890 --> 00:09:16.570
Uh well, ultimately it's really difficult going along with everyone else's gameplay at the end because I was so used to it being off what I was thinking and how I wanted to play and taking that responsibility.
00:09:16.890 --> 00:09:25.930
And when everyone was going Reese and Reese defending him defending themselves very well, I was like, oh hold on, Kirby's staying really quiet here.
00:09:26.009 --> 00:09:29.850
I need to ask what Kirby's thinking, and that's when Kira attacked me.
00:09:31.770 --> 00:09:34.170
Hold on, this is all going too smoothly.
00:09:34.410 --> 00:09:38.410
Like, I want to go for Chrissy because Chrissy's been coming after me.
00:09:38.650 --> 00:09:43.129
And if Chrissy went, obviously as a faithful, I wouldn't have care.
00:09:43.530 --> 00:09:57.210
Because I would have been okay, then I now know 100% that it's Kirby and Reese, and I would have just hit them so hard that day on that finale, I would have just gone at them guns blazing to make sure Kira sees that as well.
00:09:57.450 --> 00:10:06.410
Um, so I was I would I'm always fine to take out faithfuls towards the end because it at the end of the day, you have to be ruthless.
00:10:06.570 --> 00:10:09.129
I don't want to finish with you know three other faithfuls.
00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:11.450
I want to win win with one faithful.
00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:16.970
But I just mean Chrissy has a reputation of basically revenge voting at the table.
00:10:17.050 --> 00:10:19.930
If you tell her you're voting for her, she's gonna come for you.
00:10:20.090 --> 00:10:21.450
And she changed her vote.
00:10:21.690 --> 00:10:28.170
Yeah, but the problem was like when Kira started coming for me, and then Chrissy jumped on that bandwagon.
00:10:28.330 --> 00:10:33.610
I was like, well, who I've got two people left for the table here, Reese and Kirby.
00:10:33.770 --> 00:10:37.930
I've got potentially three votes because Kira's got the bagger on me.
00:10:38.170 --> 00:10:41.370
I have to now try to get Reese and Kirby to go for someone.
00:10:41.530 --> 00:10:43.370
I was like, let's go, Chrissy.
00:10:43.530 --> 00:10:44.970
We got to take on Chrissy.
00:10:45.530 --> 00:10:48.890
Um, but yeah, I was literally scratching and pouring.
00:10:49.129 --> 00:10:50.650
I was pretty lost at that point.
00:10:50.730 --> 00:10:52.490
I was in a bit of a shock, to be honest with you.
00:10:52.650 --> 00:10:57.050
I didn't think I was gonna get attacked like that at the round table.
00:10:57.210 --> 00:11:00.330
Um, so I was clawing just to survive.
00:11:00.650 --> 00:11:02.170
I was gonna do anything to survive.
00:11:02.570 --> 00:11:10.170
You were up against two traders and Chrissy, who is just so dangerous at that round table, and Kira, who's such a wild card.
00:11:10.250 --> 00:11:11.450
So I don't blame you.
00:11:12.009 --> 00:11:14.970
No, I was like, oh, now I have to take it on again.
00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:18.250
Like this is not is not the way I wanted it to be.
00:11:18.490 --> 00:11:23.210
I want to talk about Kirby because obviously you started the game suspicious of Kirby.
00:11:23.290 --> 00:11:28.890
You were trying to get your brother to suspect Kirby and on board for a Kirby vote.
00:11:29.050 --> 00:11:32.410
What was your relationship like and how did it change over time?
00:11:32.570 --> 00:11:35.770
Because you became convinced that Kirby was a faithful.
00:11:36.170 --> 00:11:38.009
I wouldn't say 100% convinced.
00:11:38.170 --> 00:11:50.330
Um, because obviously there were three people in that final seven who I was happy to go to endgame with, and that was Ali number one, then Kira number two, then Kirby number three.
00:11:50.570 --> 00:11:53.450
Um, because that was four people, then we could take out the others.
00:11:53.610 --> 00:11:58.170
That was in my vision that I would be, and then I could take out Kirby and Kira.
00:11:58.650 --> 00:12:00.970
I was only ever gonna want him to finish with one person.
00:12:02.090 --> 00:12:14.650
Um But yeah, we had like this tumultuous relationship where I would be really big on Kirby and then I would speak to people who I trust, and then uh say no, like Justin, we gotta like no, you're on the wrong path there.
00:12:14.730 --> 00:12:17.210
So then I'd be like, okay, I'll let that go.
00:12:17.450 --> 00:12:32.490
Um because ultimately it's a social game, and you need obviously people backing your thoughts, especially if you're gonna bring it up, in my opinion, um, before putting your neck on the line and giving out your thoughts so openly and could make yourself vulnerable.
00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:35.530
Every time I'd come to people and say Kirby, they'll say no.
00:12:35.610 --> 00:12:39.770
So I'd be like, Okay, well, everyone I'm trusting is shutting me down, I just have to let it go.
00:12:39.850 --> 00:12:42.330
Maybe I maybe I have to see her as a faithful.
00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:45.610
Um, but there was always question marks on Kirby.
00:12:45.930 --> 00:12:51.050
Um so when you were saying you trusted her, you were playing her a little bit as well.
00:12:51.290 --> 00:12:53.290
When when did I say I trusted Kirby?
00:12:53.450 --> 00:12:54.330
At the round table.
00:12:54.570 --> 00:13:03.370
Oh, yeah, but that's because I had Chrissy and Kira coming for me, and I'm trying to get Kirby and Reese to go for Chrissy.
00:13:03.530 --> 00:13:07.530
Like that was my last, that was the last throw of the dice, you know.
00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:20.570
Um, ultimately, I was happy to go to the end game with Kira and Kirby from those last five, and then hope that Kira would choose me because I was always going to throw in red.
00:13:21.050 --> 00:13:25.370
Um, there was no secret I was I wasn't gonna want to split with three people.
00:13:25.610 --> 00:13:27.129
It's too big of a risk.
00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:30.730
And you know, uh ultimately it'd be a bit greedy.
00:13:30.970 --> 00:13:33.050
I'd want more of the of the of the money.
00:13:33.129 --> 00:13:34.250
Like, you know, it's traders.
00:13:34.410 --> 00:13:40.330
The traders are happy to take money off you, like, you know, we already have to split it, may as well only be two people.
00:13:40.650 --> 00:13:41.370
Yeah, definitely.
00:13:41.450 --> 00:13:42.330
I mean, that's how I feel.
00:13:42.410 --> 00:13:46.810
I mean, if there's any doubt in your mind that someone could be a trader, you may as well banish them.
00:13:47.050 --> 00:14:05.450
Yeah, that's why I always said, um, you know, when Kira saw Kirby as more trustworthy than myself, I was like, hey, well, if someone chucks in red, um, you know, ultimately they're probably gonna pick themselves over me, which is a huge concern because I would definitely be one of the people chucking in red.
00:14:07.050 --> 00:14:15.610
Oh, well, this is not going down the way I it I saw it happening with Kira, and that's when I was like, yeah, missing Tully at that point in time.
00:14:15.850 --> 00:14:25.530
The Lawson vote, you were vomiting after that, or almost vomiting, feeling so I mean, what were you feeling in that moment?
00:14:25.610 --> 00:14:29.210
And did you expect the game to affect you this much?
00:14:29.450 --> 00:14:37.450
Yeah, I mean, well, you've you're you're feeling like so much emotion when you're there because that becomes your world, you know.
00:14:37.610 --> 00:14:45.530
Anyone who's done reality TV that can express like you forget your normal life, and that becomes your everyday normal life.
00:14:45.610 --> 00:14:47.129
So it matters so much.
00:14:47.370 --> 00:14:49.290
Um it really does.
00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:55.450
You start, you know, thinking if you make this mistake, how's it gonna affect the end game?
00:14:55.610 --> 00:15:00.170
And you know, you've just ruined that person's game who you potentially could have won with.
00:15:00.650 --> 00:15:10.730
Um so I had all these built-up nerves and emotion, but I do I've got a hernia, um, and I can naturally just start feeling sick.
00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:14.090
Um from drinking or from nerves, I can.
00:15:14.410 --> 00:15:24.009
Um and you know, I definitely got um like the acid reflux, and it can make me feel a bit bit sick, but I didn't throw up, it was just um it was close to it.
00:15:24.570 --> 00:15:26.970
So did you actually feel sick with guilt?
00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:35.450
Oh, there's a bit of gifts, there's definitely guilt there, but it's it's from like the nerves, like especially because I was drinking as well um straight afterwards.
00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:44.970
I definitely went for one too strong after that round table, and with that in the um with my acid reflux is is not good.
00:15:45.850 --> 00:15:50.009
Well, I can imagine needing a drink like a really strong drink after those round tables.
00:15:50.730 --> 00:15:52.170
I went for a strong one.
00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:54.090
It was a little too strong.
00:15:54.410 --> 00:16:01.770
With your relationship with Kirby, was there anything in particular that she was doing that you can see that she was actually manipulating?
00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:08.009
Uh, there was actually this one moment in time and I never really got to speak to anyone about it.
00:16:08.170 --> 00:16:24.090
Uh, after we took out uh Alex from the at that round table, like I ultimately was very certain Alex was a trailer because she couldn't even defend herself at the end there against me when I came forward to her.
00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:31.930
Um but no one really celebrated too much when we got Alex, but Kirby did, and I was faking it.
00:16:32.009 --> 00:16:36.810
I faked the celebration because I thought everyone would celebrate, and Kirby did the same.
00:16:36.890 --> 00:16:39.370
I looked at Kirby was like, Why are you celebrating?
00:16:39.530 --> 00:16:45.290
We kind of both looked at each other, and I was like, This, wait, why are you celebrating like this as well?
00:16:45.530 --> 00:16:50.650
No one else is, and that kind of was like, Oh, that was an alarm bell to me.
00:16:50.890 --> 00:16:57.850
Um, but in the morning that my brother was so certain on Claudia, I said to him, We're moving on Kirby, right?
00:16:58.009 --> 00:16:59.290
He was like, No, Josh, no.
00:16:59.450 --> 00:17:00.330
I was like, oh.
00:17:01.050 --> 00:17:04.569
Because I had these this thought process from the night before of what's just happened.
00:17:04.730 --> 00:17:06.569
I was ready to bring that up at the round table.
00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:11.930
But you know, ultimately that got changed very quickly when Luke wanted to go for Claudia.
00:17:12.250 --> 00:17:18.970
I think you you boys, both of you had such an interesting dynamic because you were both on the right path at different times.
00:17:19.289 --> 00:17:26.809
And sometimes you would come together and it would all work out, and other times you would like lead each other astray, and it was so frustrating.
00:17:27.049 --> 00:17:32.330
Yeah, like I really I always need someone who's got more stability because I'm a bit chaotic.
00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:36.890
But I need to be able to chat to someone and you know, discuss my thoughts.
00:17:36.970 --> 00:17:42.009
And if they're like, no, like you're completely on the wrong path, then I I will listen, I'll drop it.
00:17:42.250 --> 00:17:46.330
But you know, if someone goes to me, yes, then I'll start believing it more.
00:17:46.490 --> 00:17:55.930
Or if they come to me if I if they're a stable person, go, okay, this is why I think it's this person for what they've done here and here, I would be like, okay, that makes sense.
00:17:56.090 --> 00:17:59.690
But the stable people in there always kept very quiet.
00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:10.490
You know, I needed, you know, the likes of Ali or Lawson to come forward and say to me, okay, this is why I think it's Kirby, they've done this, this, and this.
00:18:10.569 --> 00:18:11.610
Let's go from tonight.
00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:13.289
But it never happened, you know.
00:18:13.529 --> 00:18:16.650
And there was so much information that people kept to themselves.
00:18:16.970 --> 00:18:17.769
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:17.930 --> 00:18:36.970
Well, you got rid of Lawson, so yeah, I felt so bad about that, but ultimately so many people kept information to themselves, which if they had told me, I could have been like, okay, well, that means that person's excused, and let's divert our attention to to Reese or Curdy.
00:18:37.289 --> 00:18:38.330
Yeah, definitely.
00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:45.049
It's it's one of those games, it's very easy to sit back and watch and say you know what should happen when you've got all the information.
00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:46.730
But I can imagine it's very complicated.
00:18:46.970 --> 00:18:47.690
Oh, easy.
00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:51.450
So easy to be a viewer and saying, Oh, you know, it's so easy.
00:18:51.610 --> 00:18:53.049
It should so obvious.
00:18:53.210 --> 00:19:02.410
Well, literally play it with eight friends at at um at home, like over a few drinks, like over a you know, what's it called, mafia?
00:19:02.490 --> 00:19:04.890
And then you you realize how hard it is, and they're people that you know.
00:19:05.529 --> 00:19:08.090
I have one last question before the quick fire questions.
00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:10.250
You've been on Love Island and the block.
00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:14.650
How did these experiences prepare you for the traitors?
00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:19.690
Uh I think it's just made me like more confident in myself.
00:19:19.850 --> 00:19:24.809
You know, I actually I've never been the most confident person when I'm when walking into a room.
00:19:24.890 --> 00:19:28.650
And I usually I really don't like it when I have the spotlight just on me.
00:19:28.809 --> 00:19:33.850
You know, like if I was on the news and it was live, I would be freaking out.
00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:40.650
But ultimately, over time, I've got used to it and got more confident in myself and not really worried what people think.
00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:47.289
So that's given me the ability to go on a show like this and be like, okay, like if I make mistakes, so what?
00:19:47.370 --> 00:19:51.370
I'm just gonna give it my on and be myself, and that's fine.
00:19:51.610 --> 00:20:00.170
And I think those experiences have led me to hold that belief about myself and ultimately, you know, do things other people might not be willing to do.
00:20:00.330 --> 00:20:05.529
Yeah, no one wants a cast full of people that aren't willing to put out what they really think.
00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:10.170
So if if everyone was doing that, it wouldn't be very as entertaining as it has been.
00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:14.410
So maybe Johnson looks in the in the TV world, that's for sure.
00:20:14.730 --> 00:20:16.730
I'd love to get some quick fire questions.
00:20:16.970 --> 00:20:17.930
Ready, straight, let's go.
00:20:18.330 --> 00:20:20.330
If you were a trader, who would you murder first?
00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:24.009
Chrissy, just because my, you know, as a revenge.
00:20:24.410 --> 00:20:27.370
Who are you most starstruck by arriving at the manor?
00:20:28.090 --> 00:20:28.650
What an icon.
00:20:29.529 --> 00:20:32.410
If you could be on any other reality show, what would you be on?
00:20:32.809 --> 00:20:37.769
Amazing race, I think, because with Luke, we're always a tag team.
00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:42.330
I mean, I'd love to do Survivor, but since Luke and I always do things together, I'd say amazing race.
00:20:42.569 --> 00:20:46.250
Which Australian celebrity would you like to see on the next season of The Traitors?
00:20:46.410 --> 00:20:47.769
Uh Ian Thorpe.
00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:52.170
Or what about um Keith?
00:20:52.890 --> 00:20:54.650
No, Keith from the blog.
00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:56.809
Yeah, let's get Keith on.
00:20:57.289 --> 00:20:58.650
That would be great.
00:20:58.970 --> 00:21:00.410
It's so entertaining.
00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:02.490
Get Keith back on our screens.
00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:03.529
Yeah, get him back.
00:21:04.970 --> 00:21:05.610
Great man.
00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:06.410
Get him in.
00:21:06.730 --> 00:21:08.809
Josh, thank you so much for your time.
00:21:08.890 --> 00:21:10.009
I really appreciate it.
00:21:10.569 --> 00:21:11.130
All good.
00:21:11.370 --> 00:21:12.330
Enjoy the finale.
00:21:12.650 --> 00:21:13.370
We're gonna be good.
00:21:13.850 --> 00:21:15.769
This is beyond reality.
