Redefining UX in the Gaming Industry: A Chat with Calvin Robertson

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Welcome, welcome to another great episode of The Beyond Normal Podcast.
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I'm your host, Kenny Groom.
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We are in season eight.
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I can't believe it.
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We've been able to connect with some incredible founders.
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We have an incredible founder and really UX guru like you've been in, in design wild your whole life or your whole career.
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Why?
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why- Thank you am I saying your life?
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And I think in this space, we're in right now, and we got, we're gonna definitely talk about it.
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We got the robots doing some of the things for us.
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But when it comes to designing things for human interaction, I wanted to have on my guest today, Calvin Robertson.
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You are, again, your career is in UX design, but in terms of the company you're building now, you're building Jubileague.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Which is amazing.
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It's, it's really a space for players and playmakers to.
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To really find, you the way that they can add value and interact right in the world of gaming.
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Gaming is as big as it's ever been.
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Um, I come from the, the cloth of, uh, regular Nintendo and we're shooting ducks.
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we're not doing that anymore, with the games.
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I understand.
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And so I'm excited to have you on today, Calvin, and we are gonna dig into a couple things around design and just your background.
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Absolutely.
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How you feeling?
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I'm feeling good man.
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Feeling good
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Kenny, for, for having me.
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And feeling good, man.
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Happy to be
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here.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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And so we actually create, uh, collaborate, not collaborated.
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What am I talking about?
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We are collaborating.
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Collaborating right now, But we met last year
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Yeah
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when you were doing the camp, Yeah the Playmaker camp.
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Let, Let's, let, let's set the stage though.
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Let us know like what you were doing before starting Jubileague.
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Mm.
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what, what was your time spent?
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Yeah.
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In the world?
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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Um.
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I was in a, an operative place actually.
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Um, I started Jubileague because it was something that I've always wanted to do and I just kind put it on the back burner to pursue my career.
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And
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before starting, before starting Jubileague and Playmaker, and Playmaker, I was in my career for going on 23, close to 24 years.
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And I was impacted by a layoff.
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And I had this weird moment that happened like month or two before the layoff happened where I literally just woke up outta my sleep and it was just like, I gotta do this business.
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I have to do it right now.
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There was like this strong sense of urgency.
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You have to do it now.
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right now, go.
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start doing it.
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And, and that's what I did.
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I, you got the paperwork together with the state.
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I made a, a couple of videos and in that video on my YouTube channel, I even say, Hey, I'm doing this in public.
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I'm doing it out loud.
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I'm just gonna go, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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Not sure where this is gonna go, but I'm just gonna, you follow this unction that I'm getting to, to start this business and to build this idea right now.
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And I did that.
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I leaned into that and a couple of months later I was hit with a layoff.
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And it was a weird moment because after I got the notification from my manager at the time, I got off the teams call and I went downstairs from my office, went downstairs in my living room, and I looked at my wife and I said, I think I got laid off.
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And she said, well, I don't know how to take this.
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Why are you smiling?
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Hmm.
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Because in that layoff it was really an opportunity for me to do something that I was denying myself.
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and I took that as an opportunity to say, I have a, just a short runway.
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To be able to just go all in and to do this thing.
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And, and that's what I did.
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I used, you know, that those few months after that layoff to really start this business.
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Now, I wasn't done with my, my UX career at that time, but I said, Hey, while I continue to pursue that, while I have this extra time, I'm not gonna rush back into another role right away.
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I'm gonna just pour all of this.
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'cause again, I, I saw this as an opportunity to, to just do something that I, you know, just wanted to do.
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And I desi deny myself from doing it for quite a long time.
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That's real, man.
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Yeah.
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Like this, it's interesting that you said you went through a layoff, right?
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That's nothing to like laugh about.
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Nope.
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But, the thing for me, and I'm hearing more and more people, especially in our current times, being comfortable with, okay, now let me figure out like what's next.
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And
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then.
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For you to say, Hey, I'm gonna start a business during this time and, and, and use that during your reset, your career reset.
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You I, I commend you for that one.
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'cause it's not easy when you're used to like, okay, let me look at these bills coming in.
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Like, let, how am I supposed to pay?
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Yep.
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Yep.
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When you take a step back and having those moments where you can maybe dig into your passions and that still kinda does something for your career.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Like there, there is, there's power in that.
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And yes, and I'll even say this too, it wasn't, the moment wasn't, okay, I've been laid off.
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What am I gonna do?
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And I have to go figure it out.
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This is something that's been stewing for a long time, even with my first professional role back in 2001.
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This is when I was at Hallmark Cards.
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I had an opportunity to join a team that was building a CD ROM game at Hallmark.
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And this was outside of my, my day job.
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My normal job was to be a, a web developer in the IT department.
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But through networking and relationships, I found this opportunity that was in a completely different department to be a game developer, right?
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And it And it was through those relationships that I had that allowed me, afforded me that opportunity create the CD ROM game that was inside of a birthday card we sold in Walmart stores around the country.
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right?
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That was my first major video game concept.
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But
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it was kind like a side table project.
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and I I had a few more, uh, projects like that all throughout my career.
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So this is something that has just been kinda slowly cooking for, for a while.
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Mm.
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And so then when I get this opportunity, another thing that led up into me deciding to do this, I was actually in the process of pursuing a grant.
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To raise funds to build this gaming company.
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And what was interesting about it was, I'm filling out the application, the crazy part about it was the questions about, um, you know, marketing or business operations, all those, those questions didn't bother me.
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I have an MBA, so those questions like, yeah, I, I understand those Part, the question that stuck with me after filling out the application was this, it said, why aren't you working on this full time?
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Mm-hmm
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And my answer was, I have a full-time job.
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And then it asked the question maybe two or three different ways trying to like, understand like, why aren't you, why is this person applying for grant money and not doing the job full-time?
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And I said, well, I have to have a full-time job.
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Well, can you do your full-time job?
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Part-time so that you can do the part-time thing.
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Wow.
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Full time.
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right?
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Okay.
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Up.
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"No, I can't do that because I have this full-time job and you know, I'm in this director role and I can't do that part-time.
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You have to be there for the team or be there for the company.
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You might have to travel for the company.
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if you're in that high level role, I can't just take off when I want to.
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Mm-hmm.
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I Have to, you commit to that job.
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So it just, they asked the question a couple different ways.
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I responded a couple different ways, but when I walked away from that application, they were excuses.
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right?
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Like, they were really trying to get to, why aren't you doing this full-time?
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I was telling them why I couldn't Mm.
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Mm.
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And, it stuck with me like a, again, a month before that layoff happened.
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And then, and then when the layoff happened, all those questions came back to me.
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I have no excuse now.
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I.
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Yeah To start this business, right?
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But the one thing on the app, everything else about the application was like, yeah, I got this.
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That one question bothered me.
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And now that burden, quote unquote, is gone.
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Now what can you do?
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Yeah.
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It was, it was kind a answer to a prayer, but I'm like, okay, I didn't expect it to come that way, but here we are.
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What are you gonna do with it, Calvin?
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And that was my first step.
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so...
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that's dope.
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Like you were pushed off the cliff.
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Literally.
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Yeah.
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In that moment.
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That's, that's interesting that they phrased it that way, because I get it, like a lot of times when, you know, grants are given or like, investors come and they want to put money into you, they're like, all right.
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Like, how do you, how do I guarantee you put all your time into this?
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Right.
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Right, right.
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Which is a fair question.
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Yeah, that's a, that's a definitely a fair question.
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And there's, it's just so easy to say like, life won't allow me to do that.
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won't it?
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And that's usually what the, like you said, that's where the excuses come in.
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Right.
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I think taking it off you just a little bit,'cause I don't, I don't want you to feel like, uh, you're going through this by yourself.
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Like- Oh, yeah I've had that, those same kind of thoughts.
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I think I gave myself a runway to say by the time I'm 40 Right.
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I would be able to do this full time Yep.
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Beyond normal media on every outlet worldwide.
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Right.
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But, But, I like what you're saying, like having that, that end point Mm like to it and then now you, like you said, there's no reason why you can't follow this passion of yours.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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Like you almost gotta give yourself, you gotta set it up to where you don't have an out, you don't, you can't rely on those excuses.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You know, and I'll, I'll build on that too.
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Um.
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When that moment happened, I was a leader I still, still I'm a leader.
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But one of the things I struggled with was not only was it an it, not only was it an excuse, it was crutch.
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I would use my full-time job to not take some of those passion initiatives seriously.
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Mm-hmm.
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And what I noticed was early on, the same skill that I would use in leading a design team at a major corporation, I could use those same leadership skills, management skills, operational skills in my own thing.
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And that for whatever reason, that comfort zone, that safety blanket, because I had been in the industry for so long, I know how to do this.
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The startup thing was new to me, even though I had attempted it a couple different times earlier in my career.
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So I wasn't totally foreign to it.
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But I knew what my shortcomings were in those previous endeavors.
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Now I'm coming at it differently saying, I'm wiser, I'm smarter, I have more resources, I can do this differently.
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And two things had a support system.
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Mm.
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Cause you're right, You're not in this alone.
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If you have a support system, have a wife at home that's like, we're gonna, we're gonna do this.
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Like, this is, this is not the worst thing we've gone through.
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Like we've been through more than this.
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So we, we got this.
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So when you have someone in your corner, you're like, yeah, Superman, I can, I can, I can through this.
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Yeah.
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Now.
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Not gonna sugarcoat it.
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It was tough, right?
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But when you have somebody that is with you, you can, you can stick it out.
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And then I found other people, right?
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So I jumped in this community, this entrepreneurial community in Charlotte and you know, met new people, m- met, met new people, got advisors, you all those things.
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I just tapped in to what was already available to me in the city.
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And then I started to learn new things and try things and just kind of step out a little bit more in a way that I hadn't done in previous, you attempts at this and got different results.
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Yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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So, so yeah.
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You definitely need that support system to,
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that helps man.
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That helps, man.
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Like that's...
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you know what's interesting, Uh, we had our guest, last season, Donovan, Everett.
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We recorded that one with a live audience, amazing conversation.
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And that was one of the things that stood out to me.
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Similar to you, tons of experience, domain expertise in a particular industry.
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But he mentioned the, the, the spouse having the right spouse and partner.
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Yeah.
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And how it will make or break your experience being a founder.
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Yeah.
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And, that's like- like- what do you, like, you don't know, like I don't think people are going through, maybe they are going through conversations where they're courting their spouse, asking like, if I do this, they're not, they're not proactively doing it, but they're probably like feeling it in their head.
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You know what I mean?
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Yep.
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Th- That's okay.
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That's a good question Right now, it's funny you say that.
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None of the stuff I'm doing now, we thought about when we met.
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Yeah, Yeah.
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So how do you even,
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over...
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but the reason why she decided to say yes to me when I proposed to her was she saw that I had a lot of vision.
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Mm.
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Mm.
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So if you don't know what tomorrow may bring, but do you have somebody that can see you and go, I don't know where we're going, but wherever it is, it's, it's gonna be amazing because you have vision.
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You say what you're gonna do, you do what you say you're gonna do.
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"And, And I can, I can get with that.
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I can follow that.
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can connect and I can help you build.
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right?
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So that's the other thing.
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She saw that I had vision.
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She saw that I was ambitious, but she also said, I'm gonna help you build it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Right.
00:14:47.777 --> 00:14:47.956
So then
00:14:48.455 --> 00:14:51.616
There's gotta be an expectation when you see somebody has vision too.
00:14:52.216 --> 00:14:52.547
Right.
00:14:52.547 --> 00:14:57.076
This person's going to think through things and they're going to come to the table with ideas.
00:14:57.106 --> 00:14:57.167
Yeah.
00:14:57.767 --> 00:14:59.956
That may go against the status quo.
00:15:00.797 --> 00:15:04.427
In a way, and I'm pretty sure you being a designer, like we're gonna dig into that.
00:15:04.427 --> 00:15:08.381
Like you're thinking of ideas that are not status quo all the time.
00:15:08.476 --> 00:15:09.287
All the time.
00:15:09.287 --> 00:15:11.596
So I can imagine, yeah.
00:15:11.596 --> 00:15:12.917
I imagine you can't turn that off.
00:15:12.917 --> 00:15:20.006
So it's like, like you said, for a partner to accept that from you, there's like, they gotta take both sides of it.
00:15:20.027 --> 00:15:27.845
There's gonna be a side that they're super comfortable with, and then the other side is there's gonna be some decisions you make that they don't fully understand.
00:15:27.886 --> 00:15:28.486
fully understand.
00:15:28.491 --> 00:15:28.692
Right.
00:15:28.692 --> 00:15:30.215
And you, and you can respect that, right?
00:15:30.254 --> 00:15:30.695
So that, right?
00:15:30.836 --> 00:15:37.294
So one of the, and you saying that, I remember like when we were dating in, uh, in coge, I went to a t ACU Aggie Pride.
00:15:38.206 --> 00:15:38.465
Pride, and-
00:15:38.537 --> 00:15:39.076
shout it out.
00:15:39.136 --> 00:15:39.527
Yep.
00:15:39.745 --> 00:15:49.246
And she went to Elon and, we would, you hang out, or there were times where she would want to hang out and I'm like, nah, I'm grinding, I'm, I'm doing homework.
00:15:49.317 --> 00:15:49.527
Mm.
00:15:49.537 --> 00:15:49.826
Right?
00:15:50.177 --> 00:15:50.356
Mm.
00:15:50.447 --> 00:15:54.376
And see, she would see how diligent I was at my craft.
00:15:54.422 --> 00:15:58.287
On one And so on one hand she get mad because it's"Nah, I want to go, Trying to go out.
00:15:58.287 --> 00:15:59.072
I'm trying to go out.
00:15:59.072 --> 00:15:59.432
I'm trying to go out, right?
00:15:59.432 --> 00:16:02.042
And I'm I'm like, no, I gotta listen.
00:16:02.282 --> 00:16:04.621
I'm graduating in a couple months, I gotta, I gotta get it.
00:16:04.682 --> 00:16:19.022
So, and to a lot of degrees, I, I still do that, but we've created like this balance of, okay, I gotta have my time, but then once my time is up, I gotta be locked in with her or locked in with the kids.
00:16:19.027 --> 00:16:19.596
Yeah, the family.
00:16:20.086 --> 00:16:25.351
yeah, cause she sees the vision, but then it's not just for me, it's for the family as well, right?
00:16:25.356 --> 00:16:27.116
So that balance is, is key and.
00:16:27.206 --> 00:16:31.846
And Yeah, she, she's sh- she's a soldier.
00:16:31.876 --> 00:16:36.017
She's, you know, ups, downs, the, the all-nighters and
00:16:36.466 --> 00:16:36.706
Yeah.
00:16:36.706 --> 00:16:37.216
Understood.
00:16:37.216 --> 00:16:37.606
Understood.
00:16:37.606 --> 00:16:37.697
She's
00:16:37.697 --> 00:16:38.177
patient with it.
00:16:38.206 --> 00:16:38.687
it, So,
00:16:38.956 --> 00:16:46.427
so let's talk a little bit about, uh, like the focus of Jubileague and take it, your experience in design.
00:16:46.427 --> 00:16:49.907
Like, I want to go back, like you're, you're focusing on the world of games.
00:16:49.907 --> 00:16:49.917
Yeah.
00:16:49.917 --> 00:16:53.027
So I have to ask you, you like were you a gamer growing up?
00:16:53.057 --> 00:16:54.256
Like, were you that kid?
00:16:54.256 --> 00:16:55.067
I was that kid.
00:16:55.067 --> 00:16:56.657
So don't feel like I'm attacking you.
00:16:57.197 --> 00:16:59.116
I can tell you about my favorite games.
00:16:59.116 --> 00:17:00.226
I can tell you about all that.
00:17:00.226 --> 00:17:01.606
So like, were you a gamer?
00:17:02.417 --> 00:17:04.676
I was, I wasn't a hardcore gamer.
00:17:05.287 --> 00:17:11.836
Um, I was one of those maybe wannabe gamers because my, my parents would only allow me to play games on weekends.
00:17:12.136 --> 00:17:13.247
Oh, Oh, okay.
00:17:13.412 --> 00:17:16.886
So, so I, it, it was, it was kind truncated.
00:17:16.886 --> 00:17:18.406
So it so it was, I get outta school.
00:17:19.096 --> 00:17:21.166
and Okay, we gotta go to the rental store.
00:17:21.237 --> 00:17:22.626
Mm-hmm, Block- Blockbuster?
00:17:22.626 --> 00:17:23.957
to get, get the blockbuster or whatever.
00:17:23.957 --> 00:17:25.432
Sometimes it'd be like the little mom and pop.
00:17:25.432 --> 00:17:25.672
Yeah.
00:17:25.672 --> 00:17:26.686
The mom and poppy ones,
00:17:26.686 --> 00:17:27.557
yo rentals.
00:17:27.567 --> 00:17:27.866
right?
00:17:28.336 --> 00:17:33.467
And I get the game, I would play it Friday night, Saturday night, maybe a little bit on Sunday, and that's it.
00:17:33.616 --> 00:17:35.176
Are you beating the game in the weekend?
00:17:35.507 --> 00:17:36.136
Probably not.
00:17:36.231 --> 00:17:37.576
Okay, got it.
00:17:37.582 --> 00:17:37.672
Okay.
00:17:37.676 --> 00:17:46.606
'cause it's one of those where you, you can get a certain way through the game, but man, I only have three days, maybe two and a half days,
00:17:46.636 --> 00:17:48.826
And you're, and you're sleeping, you're going to sleep.
00:17:48.977 --> 00:17:52.217
I'm, there's a little bit of sleep maybe, but it's this is all the time I got.
00:17:52.277 --> 00:17:52.626
right?
00:17:52.646 --> 00:17:52.666
Yeah.
00:17:53.057 --> 00:17:53.116
Yeah.
00:17:53.267 --> 00:17:57.436
Where my friends can, you know, they can play all day every day after school or whatever.
00:17:57.436 --> 00:17:58.997
I, I didn't have that luxury.
00:17:58.997 --> 00:17:59.237
Right.
00:18:00.372 --> 00:18:01.106
So, I'm a
00:18:01.501 --> 00:18:02.852
I don't know if that's a luxury.
00:18:02.906 --> 00:18:04.412
a luxury I mean, kind nowadays, Well,
00:18:04.412 --> 00:18:05.696
yeah, we don't want'em to play the game.
00:18:05.787 --> 00:18:10.616
Maybe not so much now, but then the privilege, right?
00:18:10.727 --> 00:18:11.336
Yeah, the privilege.
00:18:11.376 --> 00:18:13.571
I had access to do it where I didn't.
00:18:14.021 --> 00:18:17.942
and so yeah, it, it was more like a wannabe gamer.
00:18:18.061 --> 00:18:20.791
I wasn't into it as much, but I appreciated it.
00:18:20.971 --> 00:18:24.301
'cause of the, the art, the music, the design.
00:18:24.301 --> 00:18:28.021
And, and I was the kid that would actually read the instructions.
00:18:28.517 --> 00:18:28.686
Oh
00:18:28.696 --> 00:18:29.386
because I,
00:18:29.402 --> 00:18:29.791
Oh, wow.
00:18:29.791 --> 00:18:30.362
Interesting
00:18:30.362 --> 00:18:30.961
process.
00:18:31.021 --> 00:18:32.852
I'm throwing in instructions to the side.
00:18:32.852 --> 00:18:32.912
Nah.
00:18:33.092 --> 00:18:35.402
And just like click and start and then figuring it
00:18:35.402 --> 00:18:35.412
out.
00:18:35.412 --> 00:18:36.271
That was my little brother.
00:18:36.271 --> 00:18:38.521
My little brother would play, he would get frustrated.
00:18:38.912 --> 00:18:41.461
I can't do Did you read the instructions?
00:18:41.491 --> 00:18:42.571
No, I said Okay.
00:18:42.596 --> 00:18:48.092
And so I would take the time to read the instructions that might, you know, you know, take a few minutes, an hour or whatever.
00:18:48.152 --> 00:18:53.642
And he would typically be the first one to play, get frustrated, get off the game that I would go in and, and you have your time game.
00:18:53.642 --> 00:18:54.451
And I have my time.
00:18:54.481 --> 00:18:54.662
Right.
00:18:54.842 --> 00:18:54.991
Got it.
00:18:55.352 --> 00:18:57.902
And in that I'm getting the full experience of the game.
00:18:58.267 --> 00:18:58.626
right?
00:18:58.711 --> 00:19:02.701
Because wherever that designer was, they had to design the cover and the layout.
00:19:03.001 --> 00:19:07.592
And so that was me at a young age kind of understanding the full user experience of the game.
00:19:07.592 --> 00:19:10.507
It's not just, you know, the cartridge that you put the in the box.
00:19:10.717 --> 00:19:11.136
Mm-hmm
00:19:11.166 --> 00:19:25.892
But it's, you know, the, the booklet that came with it, maybe it's the magazine that you would get in the grocery store, but the cheat codes, like Yeah, the whole, I was more attracted into the world of gaming even if I wasn't deep in any, you one or multiple games.
00:19:25.892 --> 00:19:26.102
So
00:19:26.432 --> 00:19:27.122
That's dope, bro.
00:19:27.271 --> 00:19:27.451
Yeah.
00:19:27.511 --> 00:19:42.932
And I think where we're at now, and with the anime conventions, comic book conventions, like to your point, it is more about the world that's created around it versus the game or the, the, the one comic in and of itself.
00:19:42.932 --> 00:19:51.842
It's like, no, like people are embraced, like they're immersed in the world, like they're cosplay, like they're living the characters now in the real world.
00:19:51.842 --> 00:19:57.432
so It's interesting that you were drawn to, like you mentioned, like the manuals and like that sort of
00:19:57.613 --> 00:19:57.853
Yeah.
00:19:57.853 --> 00:19:59.173
The presentation of it,
00:19:59.323 --> 00:20:08.353
it was the pre, it was the presentation of the game that really drew me in, and even I would remember playing the game and just stop playing.
00:20:08.353 --> 00:20:10.031
I'll even do this now, right?
00:20:10.482 --> 00:20:14.053
I'll play a game and I'll stop playing just so I can watch it.
00:20:14.332 --> 00:20:14.692
right?
00:20:14.772 --> 00:20:17.353
I would do that with like, you know, miles Morales.
00:20:17.712 --> 00:20:18.823
Mm.
00:20:18.863 --> 00:20:20.282
I did that with Horizon.
00:20:20.372 --> 00:20:20.682
Right?
00:20:20.682 --> 00:20:23.962
I'm, I'm playing and I would just stop and I would just watch like God of War.
00:20:24.803 --> 00:20:36.852
I would play and then I would just stop and just kind watch and look at the details of how the scene was designed and how the character was designed and even some of the Easter eggs, what would happen if the character is not moving, right?
00:20:36.912 --> 00:20:37.372
Mm-hmm.
00:20:37.372 --> 00:20:38.863
'Cause it, it It has some personality.
00:20:39.012 --> 00:20:40.708
They may yawn or like- Yeah.
00:20:40.992 --> 00:20:42.673
Look in their book bag and
00:20:42.673 --> 00:20:42.883
do
00:20:42.883 --> 00:20:43.123
something
00:20:43.123 --> 00:20:43.722
different stuff.
00:20:43.782 --> 00:20:44.053
Yeah.
00:20:44.053 --> 00:20:45.583
Break forth wall, look at you.
00:20:45.587 --> 00:20:45.627
Right.
00:20:45.627 --> 00:20:45.867
Yeah.
00:20:45.991 --> 00:20:46.011
Yeah.
00:20:46.011 --> 00:20:46.126
Okay.
00:20:46.126 --> 00:20:47.001
Looking at them, right?
00:20:47.001 --> 00:20:48.667
Like different things like that, and I'm like, wow.
00:20:49.288 --> 00:21:00.788
Somebody thought enough of the experience to put that in there, even though it may not bring any value to the game, you can't get extra points for it, but it creates a, an experience that sticks with you, right?
00:21:01.448 --> 00:21:10.336
So yeah, all of that is, it's that, that world building a storytelling I was really drawn to in addition to, man, this is awesome game.
00:21:10.336 --> 00:21:11.626
Like it's entertaining to play.
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:11.829
Hmm.
00:21:12.707 --> 00:21:12.856
Mm.
00:21:12.946 --> 00:21:14.386
That's really interesting.
00:21:14.392 --> 00:21:14.561
Yeah.
00:21:14.777 --> 00:21:14.896
Yeah,
00:21:14.896 --> 00:21:17.237
because I was not, like I said, I wasn't that kid at all.
00:21:17.297 --> 00:21:17.446
Yeah.
00:21:17.836 --> 00:21:19.527
So, I commend you for that.
00:21:20.027 --> 00:21:38.807
I want to pivot a little bit, on, like what, for you to go into, to design, like what sort of courses Hmm or like what sort of thinking about learning environments, like how do you hone your, your skillset or your interest in UX design?
00:21:38.807 --> 00:21:39.886
Graphic design?
00:21:40.109 --> 00:21:42.561
Yeah where you, where, where you where, um.
00:21:43.307 --> 00:21:44.146
When you were coming up, like
00:21:44.196 --> 00:21:44.272
coming
00:21:44.272 --> 00:21:44.349
up?
00:21:44.356 --> 00:21:44.836
what was that?
00:21:44.836 --> 00:21:45.737
What was, what was that like?
00:21:46.049 --> 00:21:59.906
Um, some of the earliest memories I have of just being aware that I know that this thing was designed was things like commercials, right?
00:22:00.071 --> 00:22:05.207
Um, I would notice that shampoo commercials, right?
00:22:05.207 --> 00:22:12.086
I would notice that shampoo commercials may not have people in it that look like me, and I would go, interesting.
00:22:12.326 --> 00:22:14.866
need to wash my hair too, but this isn't speaking to me.
00:22:14.987 --> 00:22:34.906
Like, who, who decided to not put somebody like me inside of this or the dish washing soap commercials and how, know, you would see the lady wash the, the plate and she would hold it up and you see that little sparkle, like that little ding.
00:22:35.297 --> 00:22:36.646
And I'm going, that's not.
00:22:37.487 --> 00:22:37.936
Dishes.
00:22:37.936 --> 00:22:39.676
Don't do that when you clean it.
00:22:39.801 --> 00:22:40.001
Mm-hmm.
00:22:40.126 --> 00:22:41.237
They embellish that.
00:22:41.612 --> 00:22:45.646
Who, who made the decision to, to put that little sparkle and didn't put music behind it?
00:22:45.646 --> 00:22:46.067
It'll go bing.
00:22:46.132 --> 00:22:48.136
"Ding." Like, who decided to do that?
00:22:48.136 --> 00:22:50.507
If dishes don't do that, is that a job?
00:22:50.777 --> 00:22:52.517
Is somebody responsible for doing that?
00:22:52.696 --> 00:22:56.416
So I, I just notice stuff like that as a kid, right?
00:22:56.416 --> 00:23:02.656
Just watching TV or just going through the stores and I didn't know what that was.
00:23:02.686 --> 00:23:07.037
I didn't know was a career that you could do, that you could sign up for or go to school for.
00:23:07.457 --> 00:23:13.277
So growing up, my mom would tell me, Hey, you should go into like graphic design or go into comic book design.
00:23:13.277 --> 00:23:17.567
And I'm telling her just outright, I was like, you can't make money doing that.
00:23:17.571 --> 00:23:18.646
I don't, I don't wanna do that.
00:23:18.646 --> 00:23:20.747
I'm gonna do something that makes a lot of money.
00:23:20.747 --> 00:23:21.646
I'm gonna be an architect.
00:23:22.606 --> 00:23:28.922
So I started like getting into architecture, like studying buildings and that was, I.
00:23:29.612 --> 00:23:31.711
The path I took starting in high school.
00:23:32.071 --> 00:23:33.991
I took architectural drafting.
00:23:34.382 --> 00:23:35.882
Actually it went back into seventh grade.
00:23:35.882 --> 00:23:38.912
I took a mechanical drafting class in the seventh grade.
00:23:39.511 --> 00:23:40.501
Is that like CAD
00:23:40.507 --> 00:23:40.886
and stuff?
00:23:41.067 --> 00:23:41.287
Cad.
00:23:41.291 --> 00:23:41.461
Okay.
00:23:41.521 --> 00:23:43.967
Well it was CAD before cad, right?
00:23:43.967 --> 00:23:44.247
Yeah.
00:23:44.247 --> 00:23:44.406
Understood.
00:23:44.586 --> 00:23:44.807
Cad.
00:23:44.811 --> 00:23:49.021
Before the software we were doing it with like pencil and paper and like stuff like that.
00:23:49.021 --> 00:23:49.172
And
00:23:49.382 --> 00:23:49.922
Compass,
00:23:49.922 --> 00:23:51.152
T Square compasses.
00:23:51.362 --> 00:23:52.051
Got it you know, Yeah.
00:23:52.051 --> 00:23:52.071
Got it.
00:23:52.071 --> 00:23:52.592
Understood.
00:23:52.592 --> 00:23:53.221
All of that.
00:23:53.237 --> 00:23:53.527
Okay.
00:23:53.666 --> 00:23:57.842
And so I did that from seventh grade all the way through 11th grade.
00:23:57.842 --> 00:24:00.001
It was all, all paper.
00:24:00.182 --> 00:24:01.682
All paper, pencils, things.
00:24:01.682 --> 00:24:01.771
Yeah.
00:24:01.771 --> 00:24:01.922
That's a
00:24:01.932 --> 00:24:02.182
real
00:24:02.182 --> 00:24:02.451
deal.
00:24:02.582 --> 00:24:03.152
real deal.
00:24:03.152 --> 00:24:03.622
Real deal, right?
00:24:03.811 --> 00:24:04.501
Loved it.
00:24:04.652 --> 00:24:07.741
Loved designing houses and buildings and stuff like that.
00:24:08.882 --> 00:24:11.761
In the 11th grade, CAD came in.
00:24:12.632 --> 00:24:22.082
And it was only one computer in the classroom and the other, I don't know, 20 or so desks were still like your architectural like tables.
00:24:22.682 --> 00:24:27.781
And I remember looking at that computer and telling my teacher, Mr.
00:24:27.781 --> 00:24:28.051
Parker.
00:24:29.011 --> 00:24:30.406
I'm gonna use that computer.
00:24:30.406 --> 00:24:32.777
That computer cannot design better than I can.
00:24:32.777 --> 00:24:32.807
Mm.
00:24:33.021 --> 00:24:33.311
Mm.
00:24:33.376 --> 00:24:34.126
You can forget it.
00:24:34.606 --> 00:24:37.547
Oh, we gonna talk about this, later, Uhh where we're at now.
00:24:37.551 --> 00:24:38.061
You see what I'm saying?
00:24:38.172 --> 00:24:38.622
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:38.642 --> 00:24:40.771
No, you, you giving me a segue, but going.
00:24:40.771 --> 00:24:40.912
Uh-huh.
00:24:40.936 --> 00:24:41.567
keep going.
00:24:41.717 --> 00:24:43.576
And, and I fought it.
00:24:44.416 --> 00:24:47.987
And then the next year, instead of one computer, it was a whole row.
00:24:48.946 --> 00:24:51.227
And I had taken this architectural drafting class.
00:24:51.527 --> 00:24:54.436
This is now my fourth year straight, all through high school.
00:24:54.467 --> 00:24:57.557
I know I am going to be an architect when I, when I grow up.
00:24:57.676 --> 00:24:58.757
Can't convince me otherwise.
00:24:59.237 --> 00:24:59.521
Mr.
00:24:59.521 --> 00:25:04.037
Parker said, I don't know what you gotta do, but you are not getting out of this class
00:25:04.366 --> 00:25:04.696
without
00:25:04.696 --> 00:25:07.336
touching it, without touching cad, without touching AutoCAD.
00:25:08.116 --> 00:25:09.707
And I said, okay, all right, fine.
00:25:09.737 --> 00:25:10.307
I'll try it.
00:25:11.267 --> 00:25:14.116
I used it one time and was hooked.
00:25:14.589 --> 00:25:14.829
Mm-hmm.
00:25:15.017 --> 00:25:19.547
Because I understood that all the things that I didn't like.
00:25:20.567 --> 00:25:24.692
About hand drawing, like the little arrows that we had, Mr.
00:25:24.692 --> 00:25:27.707
Parker would grade us on the curve of the arrows.
00:25:27.707 --> 00:25:33.436
If the curve wasn't precise enough, he would dot points from our blueprint,
00:25:33.727 --> 00:25:33.997
right?
00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:34.430
Mm-hmm.
00:25:34.606 --> 00:25:39.497
And that was so tedious, but I just got so used to doing it because I wanted an A, right?
00:25:39.497 --> 00:25:49.636
So I would do it right, but when I would get on AutoCAD and I would design it perfect once, and it would become a design system that I can just copy and paste and deploy everywhere.
00:25:50.146 --> 00:25:51.856
I was like, oh, okay.
00:25:51.856 --> 00:26:00.916
So all the tedious stuff that I don't want to do, this computer could do it a lot better than I can, but now I could spend more time doing all the stuff that I love to do, right?
00:26:01.186 --> 00:26:04.547
I even had like a little, uh, side project when I was in high school.
00:26:05.116 --> 00:26:10.156
Our high school was, uh, doing some construction work on the football field and track field.
00:26:10.517 --> 00:26:12.842
And so our athletic director came to Mr.
00:26:12.842 --> 00:26:19.576
Parker and said, Hey, I need a student to, to do, you know, to, you know, lay this out, create a blueprint so we can do some construction work out here.
00:26:20.267 --> 00:26:24.227
And he goes, I got the person for you, and I played football and ran track.
00:26:24.257 --> 00:26:26.297
So it was like, you know, wow.
00:26:26.297 --> 00:26:26.882
That's a, that's awesome.
00:26:26.896 --> 00:26:27.106
That's the
00:26:27.106 --> 00:26:29.057
best of Bo, both worlds for you, right?
00:26:29.207 --> 00:26:29.356
Yeah.
00:26:29.386 --> 00:26:33.856
It was like the, the, the part was after they redesigned it, I never performed on it.
00:26:34.430 --> 00:26:35.477
Oh, Oh, really?
00:26:35.957 --> 00:26:36.646
Because you had left.
00:26:36.826 --> 00:26:37.936
I left, by yeah.
00:26:37.936 --> 00:26:37.946
Okay.
00:26:37.946 --> 00:26:38.926
That was a senior project.
00:26:38.957 --> 00:26:39.436
You, it was like, yeah.
00:26:39.797 --> 00:26:40.067
Okay.
00:26:40.067 --> 00:26:40.606
Bittersweet.
00:26:40.606 --> 00:26:45.946
It was like, yeah, I'm laying out this blueprint for a new stadium and I But- I came back and visited
00:26:45.946 --> 00:26:48.017
You held off on touching it.
00:26:48.136 --> 00:26:48.707
Yeah.
00:26:49.410 --> 00:26:50.207
for a little bit.
00:26:50.207 --> 00:26:50.267
For a little bit, yeah.
00:26:50.267 --> 00:26:53.057
Versus so that I can be in that moment to be the student.
00:26:53.057 --> 00:26:53.747
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:53.747 --> 00:26:56.237
Bring that experience, you know, to the, to the school.
00:26:56.237 --> 00:26:56.567
Right.
00:26:56.567 --> 00:26:57.737
And so and so yeah.
00:26:57.737 --> 00:27:02.446
That was kind of the, the start of my, now going into ux.
00:27:02.450 --> 00:27:02.650
right?
00:27:02.686 --> 00:27:06.797
Even though I'm not doing architectural design anymore, all of those skills still apply.
00:27:07.247 --> 00:27:12.196
Because it's, you know what I tell a lot of people in ux, the visual part is great.
00:27:12.257 --> 00:27:17.176
The visual part to me is more of a byproduct of understanding of people work.
00:27:17.670 --> 00:27:23.896
how work, how people move through systems, how systems are designed to direct people to do something or not do something.
00:27:24.287 --> 00:27:30.797
So those are the, the skills that were transferable in the UX world, in the software development world.
00:27:31.089 --> 00:27:31.390
right?
00:27:31.390 --> 00:27:33.539
And then if I do that part well, right?
00:27:33.586 --> 00:27:35.799
that's the one thing you learn about designing a house.
00:27:35.809 --> 00:27:40.039
somebody has to live in this house day in and day out, you want them to have a good experience.
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.980
You have to understand how people work and how they move and how they think.
00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:48.950
And if I take those same principles and move into software design, I get the same results.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.910
And as a byproduct, you have awesome looking software.
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:53.390
Yeah.
00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:53.869
I like it.
00:27:54.500 --> 00:27:59.210
So let's talk about, there was something in there that you said there were a couple things, right?
00:27:59.210 --> 00:28:05.077
But we're gonna touch on experience of you having at an early age, having exposure to that.
00:28:05.077 --> 00:28:11.137
And things start to, the wheel starts to turn in terms of like you wanna go down the architecture path, the design path.
00:28:11.708 --> 00:28:23.698
Talk about what Jubileague you believe in the Playmaker program, like what are you seeing, like what needs to be front and center in your opinion, for the, next generation of architects and game developers and stuff like that?
00:28:24.434 --> 00:28:24.775
Yeah,
00:28:24.807 --> 00:28:27.595
and that's one of the reasons why I started Playmaker.
00:28:27.917 --> 00:28:28.498
Playmaker.
00:28:28.847 --> 00:28:37.157
part of it was to, to scratch an itch that I saw, uh, going into the gaming industry.
00:28:39.028 --> 00:28:50.667
one, I saw a lot of layoffs in the industry and even in my layoff, I was considering going into, uh, a different, uh, you know, going into the gaming industry, you know, trying to move into these different companies.
00:28:51.208 --> 00:29:02.367
Didn't get any traction, primarily because I'm kind of a newbie, like I have no gaming background or it's not in my resume except for those, you know, those side projects that I did at these different companies, right?
00:29:02.714 --> 00:29:02.865
Mm-hmm.
00:29:02.907 --> 00:29:09.775
I don't have a AAA A game release, you know, behind my name, so nobody's, you know, probably looking for somebody like me, right?
00:29:10.258 --> 00:29:16.528
But then I'm also noticing that people with that experience are still having an issue getting into these, into these roles.
00:29:17.278 --> 00:29:17.307
Mm.
00:29:17.488 --> 00:29:28.498
And we have our kids coming up today and they're seeing gaming become big and have no clue how do I bridge the gap between where I am now and how do I get into the industry?
00:29:29.428 --> 00:29:35.698
And you take that and you also couple it with the tools that are out there, right?
00:29:35.698 --> 00:29:43.557
So now my, my UX brain is kicking in and I'm looking at these tools that game developers use to make games.
00:29:44.157 --> 00:29:49.827
And compared to like web design or software design, the tools aren't as mature.
00:29:49.827 --> 00:30:00.718
The process, I would rather say the process to make a game isn't as, uh- directed as you would see with like enterprise software, right?
00:30:00.861 --> 00:30:01.240
Mm-hmm.
00:30:01.258 --> 00:30:02.958
So it's kinda, it's a lot looser.
00:30:03.070 --> 00:30:08.518
um, not as many guardrails in, in the gaming space that you would see in, you know, tech.
00:30:09.702 --> 00:30:18.732
So seeing that I'm going, wow, how would anybody who wants to get into this industry really make it unless they learn the tools?
00:30:18.732 --> 00:30:19.873
Like you have to learn the tools.
00:30:20.292 --> 00:30:37.093
Well, one of the things that I've, I'm realizing just in my history, in my, you career in, in UX is when you over index on learning the tool and you don't put enough stock into the craft of making a game, you will confuse the two.
00:30:37.153 --> 00:30:39.222
You will think that because I know the tool,
00:30:39.330 --> 00:30:39.590
Mm
00:30:39.643 --> 00:30:41.502
I know how to create a great game.
00:30:41.681 --> 00:30:42.020
right?
00:30:42.613 --> 00:30:54.192
And I think this is the problem that we're seeing in the, in the gaming industry is like, you have people that know how to use a tool, but do you know how to create a game that's worthy of somebody's time?
00:30:54.611 --> 00:30:54.881
right?
00:30:54.891 --> 00:30:54.901
Mm.
00:30:55.002 --> 00:30:55.063
Yeah.
00:30:55.123 --> 00:30:59.682
Or their dollar to download, to, to play on their, you know, console of choice.
00:31:00.080 --> 00:31:02.982
So with Playmaker, we decided to focus on that.
00:31:03.012 --> 00:31:05.682
We decided to say, okay, just forget the tools just for a second.
00:31:06.732 --> 00:31:11.893
Do you understand what it takes to make a game that's fun?
00:31:12.171 --> 00:31:12.760
Mm-hmm.
00:31:12.760 --> 00:31:16.242
And we kinda use the concept of storytelling, right?
00:31:16.663 --> 00:31:21.643
Because if you think about any game, it just, Nick, what's your favorite game?
00:31:21.792 --> 00:31:22.303
Monopoly.
00:31:22.452 --> 00:31:23.083
Monopoly.
00:31:23.323 --> 00:31:25.123
There is a story behind Monopoly.
00:31:25.123 --> 00:31:28.613
Whether you recognize it or not, whether you bought into it or not.
00:31:28.972 --> 00:31:32.742
the backstory, the the history of it, the culture that's built around it.
00:31:32.863 --> 00:31:40.903
There's a, there's a story that's baked into it to where even the people listening, when they hear the word monopoly there, there are images that are already firing in their head.
00:31:41.173 --> 00:31:41.262
Mm-hmm.
00:31:41.502 --> 00:31:43.242
And all you said was Monopoly.
00:31:43.303 --> 00:31:43.722
That's it.
00:31:43.962 --> 00:31:44.292
Yeah.
00:31:44.532 --> 00:31:51.492
Because they took the time to build a story and then the game was a byproduct of the story.
00:31:51.681 --> 00:32:01.393
Even the structure of it, even, you know, it's taking themes from, you know, different streets and avenues and the economy and taxes and all that.
00:32:01.482 --> 00:32:03.083
There's an inherent story.
00:32:03.762 --> 00:32:03.962
That's.
00:32:04.792 --> 00:32:06.567
Coincides with our actual life.
00:32:06.837 --> 00:32:08.488
So you can relate to it very quickly.
00:32:08.548 --> 00:32:08.698
Yeah.
00:32:08.698 --> 00:32:10.018
You don't have to think about it.
00:32:10.048 --> 00:32:14.157
Even if you've never played Monopoly before, you get the premise off the bat.
00:32:14.278 --> 00:32:14.397
Yeah.
00:32:14.397 --> 00:32:14.607
Right.
00:32:14.651 --> 00:32:14.671
Yeah.
00:32:15.208 --> 00:32:18.448
That story drives the game, right?
00:32:18.538 --> 00:32:26.097
If you get the story right, the design of the game, the experience of the game will follow regardless of the tools.
00:32:26.218 --> 00:32:27.538
Monopoly is a paper game.
00:32:27.837 --> 00:32:27.897
Yeah.
00:32:28.107 --> 00:32:28.557
They have a, it's
00:32:28.557 --> 00:32:29.218
super simple.
00:32:29.218 --> 00:32:30.268
Super simple, right?
00:32:30.387 --> 00:32:31.798
Monopoly, go, I have a monopoly.
00:32:31.798 --> 00:32:32.438
Go on my phone.
00:32:32.448 --> 00:32:33.577
It's a fun game.
00:32:33.817 --> 00:32:40.018
But that's a byproduct of history of stories for decades that carry it.
00:32:40.498 --> 00:32:45.417
So with Playmaker, we focus more on, do you have a good story for your game?
00:32:45.755 --> 00:32:46.015
right?
00:32:46.288 --> 00:32:48.897
Do you understand the mechanics of a game?
00:32:49.018 --> 00:32:51.147
Do you understand the rules of engagement of a game?
00:32:51.147 --> 00:33:00.268
Because if I can get you to understand that first, and then spend a few days with me, you produce a paper game, now you've.
00:33:00.988 --> 00:33:06.897
Design something built, something, played this game with your friends, with your family members, and you're like, okay, I, I did it.
00:33:07.798 --> 00:33:12.627
And now you just unlocked, you know that achievement for making a game?
00:33:12.657 --> 00:33:18.867
No, it wasn't on Xbox or PlayStation or anything like that, but you, you just created something from scratch, from nothing.
00:33:19.194 --> 00:33:19.555
Mm-hmm.
00:33:19.555 --> 00:33:20.367
And it's yours.
00:33:20.548 --> 00:33:22.498
It's your intellectual property.
00:33:23.097 --> 00:33:38.307
Now, when I introduce you to C Sharp or Swift, or Kotlin, all these different programming languages that underpin the games that you're playing, that you don't understand that there's deep code computer science under that game.
00:33:38.307 --> 00:33:40.738
It's not just pretty costumes and stuff.
00:33:41.188 --> 00:33:45.417
There's some real code underneath these games that are making them run right now.
00:33:45.417 --> 00:33:52.198
When I teach you that part, when it gets hard, you won't run from it because you've already created a game.
00:33:52.587 --> 00:33:53.877
This isn't paper format.
00:33:54.057 --> 00:33:57.387
You've already been validated by your family members, your friends.
00:33:57.928 --> 00:33:59.127
This is a solid game.
00:33:59.127 --> 00:33:59.698
It's fun.
00:34:00.117 --> 00:34:03.478
So when it gets hard, you'll stick with it because it's already in your mind.
00:34:03.478 --> 00:34:07.018
You've already built a story and maybe a little bit of culture around it.
00:34:07.498 --> 00:34:07.978
Right?
00:34:08.367 --> 00:34:09.927
Now, you ask a different question.
00:34:09.927 --> 00:34:12.898
It's not, okay, I want to get into the gaming industry.
00:34:13.318 --> 00:34:13.467
Okay?
00:34:13.467 --> 00:34:14.637
What tools do I need to learn?
00:34:14.878 --> 00:34:15.327
Right?
00:34:15.867 --> 00:34:18.447
Because anybody will tell you a tool, depending on who you talk to.
00:34:18.447 --> 00:34:19.438
They'll give you a tool.
00:34:19.498 --> 00:34:24.208
You'll go download the tool, watch a YouTube video, and then give up when it gets hard.
00:34:25.257 --> 00:34:28.438
But the difference is if you say, Hey, I made this game.
00:34:28.648 --> 00:34:29.697
I really like it.
00:34:30.297 --> 00:34:38.547
Tell me how I can make my character do this, or tell me how I can create an environment that's fitting for this story that I'm creating.
00:34:38.788 --> 00:34:40.677
That's a different question.
00:34:41.338 --> 00:34:44.157
Because now you're, you're bringing some substance to me.
00:34:44.427 --> 00:34:51.867
And if I'm a mentor or a teacher, and you bring that to me, okay, yeah, let's sit down, let's break this thing apart.
00:34:52.347 --> 00:35:03.628
And let me show you how you can use the tools and the technology to bring your vision to life versus trying to use it as a shortcut to jump into an industry because you heard you might
00:35:03.838 --> 00:35:04.768
be able to make some money,
00:35:04.918 --> 00:35:05.217
right?
00:35:05.217 --> 00:35:05.518
Yeah.
00:35:05.523 --> 00:35:05.552
Yeah.
00:35:05.557 --> 00:35:10.708
I think that's, that's, that's the initial, that's always the initial thought, like, oh yeah.
00:35:10.737 --> 00:35:15.137
I think game developers make a lot of money and Yeah.
00:35:15.137 --> 00:35:22.728
And some of them, and I've talked to, I have some people in my network who are, independent game developers.
00:35:23.038 --> 00:35:26.907
And they spend a lot of whatever comes in.
00:35:26.907 --> 00:35:28.768
So I don't know if it's true, like,
00:35:28.827 --> 00:35:29.007
yeah,
00:35:29.038 --> 00:35:35.728
you know, there that there's this, this significant portion of the, the industry that's making this money.
00:35:35.728 --> 00:35:37.137
But you touched on something there.
00:35:37.137 --> 00:35:49.588
And I think the idea of creating the physical product and then taking that into the, you know, a digital into our devices now, like there's so much value in my mind.
00:35:49.588 --> 00:35:51.748
There's like a premium on experiences now.
00:35:51.958 --> 00:35:52.047
Right.
00:35:52.527 --> 00:36:02.938
And so the experience of playing our favorite games, the experience of playing a game like Spades That goes along with some of these games and they're super basic, to your point, super basic.
00:36:02.938 --> 00:36:03.027
Right.
00:36:03.148 --> 00:36:06.268
But people have been playing them since the beginning of time for a reason.
00:36:06.273 --> 00:36:06.987
Right, right.
00:36:06.987 --> 00:36:08.788
And there's this staying par with that.
00:36:08.847 --> 00:36:12.777
And it's, it's really the story behind the game and people connect with.
00:36:12.838 --> 00:36:16.617
I think it's great that you're centering that for the kids.
00:36:16.617 --> 00:36:23.427
And I'm going to date myself a little bit, but taking the phones away from them, which I is, is a great, is a great thing for me.
00:36:23.847 --> 00:36:25.077
And here we have on the screen.
00:36:25.077 --> 00:36:25.378
Right.
00:36:25.378 --> 00:36:31.677
That takes me to the game because I know the kids are like, well, you're teaching us this, this, where's your game at?
00:36:31.737 --> 00:36:31.858
Yep.
00:36:31.887 --> 00:36:37.077
And so talk a little bit about the game where they can find it and like what was the thought process around it?
00:36:37.228 --> 00:36:37.498
Yeah.
00:36:37.588 --> 00:36:40.077
You know, like you said, the experience that you were trying to
00:36:40.228 --> 00:36:40.797
absolutely
00:36:40.797 --> 00:36:41.128
put into
00:36:41.128 --> 00:36:41.398
this.
00:36:41.402 --> 00:36:43.527
So yeah, this the good story around this game.
00:36:43.527 --> 00:36:45.867
So this game is dwarf reach for the Stars.
00:36:46.347 --> 00:36:49.557
And this was my first game.
00:36:50.503 --> 00:36:51.313
That I built.
00:36:51.463 --> 00:37:00.402
So by the time this game came along, or this idea came to me, I had designed and developed three games for three different companies.
00:37:00.943 --> 00:37:04.842
So after the third one, I went, okay, this was, this was kind of fun.
00:37:04.842 --> 00:37:08.172
Let me see if I can build my own concept and, and build around it.
00:37:08.663 --> 00:37:13.422
So, one Saturday morning I woke up and I said, you know what?
00:37:13.422 --> 00:37:14.623
I've been thinking about this long enough.
00:37:14.623 --> 00:37:15.253
I'm gonna do it.
00:37:15.253 --> 00:37:16.092
I'm gonna make this game.
00:37:16.393 --> 00:37:19.693
I woke up that morning, early that morning before my two boys woke up.
00:37:19.753 --> 00:37:23.862
This, my boys were young, I think they were still single digit age at the time.
00:37:24.373 --> 00:37:31.452
And, I said, I'm, I'm gonna build enough of a prototype to get them to play it and to see if it's any good, right?
00:37:31.452 --> 00:37:33.733
Can I hold their attention more than, you know, two seconds.
00:37:34.512 --> 00:37:46.123
So I had this idea of a game to where I would have stars just kind of hidden in space, like using the, the, the compass and the gyroscope on the phone to find these hidden stars.
00:37:46.452 --> 00:37:48.342
So I built a prototype, put it on my phone.
00:37:49.228 --> 00:37:51.748
When my boys got up, I said, Hey, I made this game.
00:37:51.748 --> 00:37:54.688
I want you to play it and, and, you know, tell me if it's good or not.
00:37:55.347 --> 00:37:56.307
And they were like, well, how do you play?
00:37:56.307 --> 00:37:57.898
I said, I hid three stars.
00:37:58.168 --> 00:38:04.617
And what you have to do is like, you have to physically move your body, like spin around in circles or whatever and, and find the star.
00:38:04.617 --> 00:38:05.668
They're just hidden in space,
00:38:06.137 --> 00:38:06.228
right?
00:38:07.289 --> 00:38:11.967
And so my oldest son, Isaiah, he plays it and he's like turning in circles.
00:38:12.418 --> 00:38:16.288
And then when the first star showed up on the screen, he goes, I found one dad.
00:38:16.407 --> 00:38:17.487
And I was like, okay, good.
00:38:17.487 --> 00:38:18.538
Find the other three, right?
00:38:18.538 --> 00:38:23.547
So he did, he spins around, he's jumping and he's doing all this kind of stuff, and he finds all three stars.
00:38:23.967 --> 00:38:27.628
And I take the phone from him, I reset the game, and I give it to my, my younger son, Titus.
00:38:27.628 --> 00:38:29.277
And he kind of does the same thing, right?
00:38:30.057 --> 00:38:32.878
And so after they play it, I was like, what do you think?
00:38:32.878 --> 00:38:34.467
Was that a good, good concept?
00:38:34.467 --> 00:38:35.697
They were like, yeah, I really liked that.
00:38:36.447 --> 00:38:39.717
And so I, you know, I changed the coordinates of the stars and I gave it back to him.
00:38:39.717 --> 00:38:41.967
I did that maybe two or three times that morning.
00:38:42.507 --> 00:38:45.927
And it was to the point where it really like held their attention.
00:38:46.077 --> 00:38:48.597
Like I had to be like, okay, I need my phone back now.
00:38:48.628 --> 00:38:48.927
Right?
00:38:48.927 --> 00:38:50.307
Let me, let me keep working on it.
00:38:50.847 --> 00:39:01.438
So once I did that quick test, like literally like that morning, like this was something that I hadn't Googled it or researched it, it was just, I woke up that morning and I said, I have to do something.
00:39:01.978 --> 00:39:08.007
Let me just spend an hour or two, build enough of a prototype, put it in a kid's hand, lemme see what happens.
00:39:08.878 --> 00:39:29.757
Once I had that, I went, okay, let me build this out into the concept that you see now where instead of it just being like a white screen with three stars on it, it was, can I immerse you in a 3D world and can I accept these like different polar ordinances and have these stars as just kind of all around like in 3D space.
00:39:30.478 --> 00:39:40.018
And then set a timer behind it and put like some, you know, retro arcade music behind it And make it into this concept of dwarf that it is today.
00:39:40.197 --> 00:39:40.557
Right.
00:39:41.097 --> 00:39:49.257
And even, you know, we talked about having a support system and having my spouse help, I even got the game to a place to where the concept was good.
00:39:49.257 --> 00:39:50.668
I had this space theme.
00:39:50.788 --> 00:40:00.657
I think at the time there was a, a blood moon eclipse about to happen, and so we were all like NASA geeks and, you know, just kind of in that space mode.
00:40:00.657 --> 00:40:01.047
Right.
00:40:01.527 --> 00:40:02.938
And, but I didn't have a name yet.
00:40:03.628 --> 00:40:07.407
And so we were coming up with different ideas for names and nothing was sticking.
00:40:07.407 --> 00:40:10.378
And, and I was like, I don't know, nothing is happening.
00:40:10.438 --> 00:40:12.838
And my wife goes, why don't you call it dwarf?
00:40:13.617 --> 00:40:14.788
Like, like dwarf star?
00:40:14.967 --> 00:40:15.148
Yeah.
00:40:15.148 --> 00:40:15.237
I
00:40:15.507 --> 00:40:16.018
thought of
00:40:16.143 --> 00:40:17.487
dwarf star when you just said that.
00:40:17.487 --> 00:40:18.782
I was like, that is dope.
00:40:18.958 --> 00:40:21.597
I mean, she just kind of, again, she's not, she's in healthcare.
00:40:21.688 --> 00:40:29.307
Like she does not like this design stuff and, but she seen me like toil over this name and she's just like, what?
00:40:30.027 --> 00:40:33.387
Call it dwarf and it just, bam, that's it.
00:40:33.387 --> 00:40:36.248
And so it's been dwarf, ever since.
00:40:36.648 --> 00:40:48.137
And I just, I just, not too long ago remastered it for, for iOS and I'm working on another version for, for Android as well.
00:40:48.538 --> 00:40:50.068
And again, it's kind of that labor of love.
00:40:50.068 --> 00:40:56.967
One, it was that project to see if I could actually do it, and two, to see if, if people actually, you know, would, would wanna play it.
00:40:58.228 --> 00:41:10.518
and it's one of those games that I, I still kind of go back to, even with my busy life and busy schedule, you know, I prioritize so many other things, but my, my baby, dwarf here is,
00:41:11.307 --> 00:41:11.608
yeah.
00:41:11.668 --> 00:41:12.987
One of those things that I keep pushing.
00:41:13.047 --> 00:41:13.347
So
00:41:13.398 --> 00:41:14.688
you mentioned, remaster.
00:41:16.617 --> 00:41:16.827
Yeah.
00:41:16.887 --> 00:41:17.547
Just now.
00:41:17.547 --> 00:41:18.148
Yeah.
00:41:18.268 --> 00:41:18.628
Tell.
00:41:19.047 --> 00:41:22.737
Like, what does, what does that entail for a, a game?
00:41:23.277 --> 00:41:23.338
Yeah.
00:41:23.338 --> 00:41:23.358
I know.
00:41:23.413 --> 00:41:26.637
I, I haven't, I've obviously heard of remastering for like music.
00:41:26.728 --> 00:41:26.938
Yeah.
00:41:27.418 --> 00:41:31.108
Like a remastered version of like a classic album comes out.
00:41:31.228 --> 00:41:35.458
Or, or another way to say it's like refactor, like I refactored all the code.
00:41:35.637 --> 00:41:35.998
Okay.
00:41:35.998 --> 00:41:36.478
That was in it.
00:41:36.538 --> 00:41:37.677
So more efficient.
00:41:37.737 --> 00:41:38.458
Make it more efficient.
00:41:38.907 --> 00:41:45.927
The first, the very first version of Dwarf was written with a technology called Cordova.
00:41:46.737 --> 00:41:49.648
And so basically it was, yeah, it, I'll explain.
00:41:49.862 --> 00:41:51.958
Yeah, explain, explain it to me please.
00:41:51.987 --> 00:41:55.978
So Cordova or Foam Gap, some people might know it by the name Foam Gap.
00:41:55.978 --> 00:42:03.418
So it is basically a, if you're building, which you know, my career, I had a career building web applications.
00:42:03.793 --> 00:42:06.762
So most of the stuff I did in my nine to five was web apps.
00:42:06.762 --> 00:42:07.003
Right?
00:42:07.003 --> 00:42:14.713
So I'm building with HTML, JavaScript, maybe some service side languages, like Java or PHP or Pearl or something like that.
00:42:14.713 --> 00:42:15.793
So that was my world.
00:42:16.123 --> 00:42:18.492
My world was not game development.
00:42:18.913 --> 00:42:20.833
Which uses a different technology stack.
00:42:21.132 --> 00:42:21.402
Right.
00:42:21.432 --> 00:42:21.762
Okay.
00:42:22.182 --> 00:42:31.273
So to bridge the gap to build these games, there were these tools called Phone Gap that allowed you to build games using web technologies.
00:42:31.362 --> 00:42:33.463
And it would literally like fill the gap.
00:42:33.463 --> 00:42:38.983
It would take your web-based technology and convert it in a way that it can run on a mobile device.
00:42:39.222 --> 00:42:39.802
Oh, okay.
00:42:40.393 --> 00:42:50.922
So I used that as a way to quickly get the first version of the game out again to test it to see if this is, you know, something that, would hold any value.
00:42:51.733 --> 00:42:53.277
But then after I did that, I went okay.
00:42:54.358 --> 00:43:04.797
Now, if I really wanna be serious and make this, I need to learn, swift, which is, iOS, apple, iOS, their native language for their platform.
00:43:05.108 --> 00:43:05.418
Okay.
00:43:05.507 --> 00:43:12.748
And Kotlin, which is, or Google, and the Play store for their apps, their native language is Kotlin.
00:43:13.438 --> 00:43:16.708
So again, I've learned multiple programming languages throughout my career.
00:43:16.708 --> 00:43:22.347
So I, I looked at this as like a, a curiosity thing to be able to learn just another language.
00:43:22.378 --> 00:43:22.648
Right?
00:43:22.648 --> 00:43:25.047
And once I get the syntax of the language, I got it.
00:43:25.047 --> 00:43:29.248
I can build anything and I'll just, you know, just build it in those different formats.
00:43:29.907 --> 00:43:36.387
So now we're in the process of, okay, build it for iOS and Swift, build it for Kotlin for the Google Play Store.
00:43:36.867 --> 00:43:45.418
But in the middle of that, I picked up an opportunity to teach gaming game development at Champlain College.
00:43:45.987 --> 00:43:49.557
Now, Champlin College is a unity shop.
00:43:49.797 --> 00:43:51.717
I've never built a game, okay?
00:43:51.777 --> 00:43:52.467
In unity.
00:43:52.963 --> 00:44:05.722
So in that transition, I'm learning yet another, you know, gaming development platform to just increase my understanding of, of the, of the industry.
00:44:06.193 --> 00:44:30.612
Now, in the beginning, I didn't, I didn't necessarily like that because when I looked at tools like Unity and Unreal, I kind of felt they were bloated and relatively speaking they are, because again, I come from a web world where things are a lot lighter, a lot faster, not massive multi megabyte, sometimes gigabyte, you know, single, you know, code base is sitting on a, on a console.
00:44:30.742 --> 00:44:33.762
so it, it is beefier than what I was accustomed to.
00:44:34.362 --> 00:44:39.793
But once I learned it and learned how it works, I was able to kind of manage, you know, that accordingly.
00:44:39.793 --> 00:44:48.012
So, so that's kind of the evolution of how I'm learning all these different programming languages and these game development tools to get a better understanding of.
00:44:48.867 --> 00:44:50.518
What's required in the gaming industry.
00:44:50.608 --> 00:45:03.297
And then to also help me educate, like I said, I'm, I'm teaching game development at Champlin, so I'm educating these students on how to learn, understand the tools, but also keep the craft as you prepare for the industry.
00:45:03.507 --> 00:45:12.717
And you have to, for consoles, you'd have to incorporate a unity or, right.
00:45:12.777 --> 00:45:13.168
Okay.
00:45:13.257 --> 00:45:19.628
Yeah, because it's, it's written in, a lot of these games are written in C Okay.
00:45:19.818 --> 00:45:29.907
Or c++, which for these consoles, right, like even like a Windows machine or Xbox, something like C or, or c++ will run like really well.
00:45:29.907 --> 00:45:31.288
So it's a performance thing.
00:45:31.438 --> 00:45:31.858
Okay.
00:45:31.858 --> 00:45:31.947
Right.
00:45:32.547 --> 00:45:39.628
But then you also use these tools to where you can build it in one common platform with a common language like c.
00:45:40.677 --> 00:45:43.688
And then deploy it in multiple mediums, right?
00:45:43.688 --> 00:45:45.088
So that's the benefit of it.
00:45:45.088 --> 00:46:01.797
It's, it's the gaming industry saying, yeah, I know there are a gajillion different, you know, consoles and, and hardware devices for you to play your game, but we can streamline all that by using a c based, you know, code base, right?
00:46:01.797 --> 00:46:05.907
And then compile it down to a way to where it can, it can be played in different areas.
00:46:05.907 --> 00:46:06.177
So,
00:46:06.297 --> 00:46:06.597
okay.
00:46:06.597 --> 00:46:06.807
Yeah.
00:46:07.378 --> 00:46:12.688
So let's talk a little bit about, you touched earlier, it was the segue you gave me.
00:46:12.688 --> 00:46:15.117
I wanna make sure we, we segue back to that.
00:46:15.148 --> 00:46:15.237
Yeah.
00:46:15.777 --> 00:46:31.588
Where you were talk, talking a little bit about, you reached a point, where you understood that, you know, there's tools and the tools allow, they, they, the computer, it automated the things you didn't want to do so that you could do the things you enjoy now.
00:46:31.677 --> 00:46:31.797
Right?
00:46:32.068 --> 00:46:34.108
So now we're in a space now where.
00:46:35.628 --> 00:46:38.353
I mean, it is debatable how much work can be done for us.
00:46:38.353 --> 00:46:38.592
Right.
00:46:38.682 --> 00:46:42.163
But it seems like a lot of the work can be done for us.
00:46:42.193 --> 00:46:42.253
Yeah.
00:46:43.152 --> 00:46:47.023
So I'll give you an example in context and then I'll pass it to you.
00:46:47.413 --> 00:46:49.262
definitely for your perspective.
00:46:49.262 --> 00:46:49.663
Right.
00:46:50.983 --> 00:46:57.762
I recently shifted our beyond normal media.com from a traditional web hosting platform.
00:46:58.242 --> 00:46:58.483
Right.
00:46:58.483 --> 00:47:00.373
And now it's on a lovable.
00:47:00.672 --> 00:47:00.822
Yeah.
00:47:01.032 --> 00:47:01.393
Right.
00:47:01.483 --> 00:47:04.663
And so I'm curious your thoughts with.
00:47:05.443 --> 00:47:06.943
Businesses doing that, right?
00:47:06.943 --> 00:47:09.913
Where it, it seems like the AI can write some of it.
00:47:09.913 --> 00:47:12.313
And then now I feel like I'm a coder a little bit.
00:47:12.313 --> 00:47:21.672
And it's like, you know, like what, talk a little bit about where we're at and how, maybe even in the, the context of the class, you know, the, the, the, the PLAYMAKER program.
00:47:22.362 --> 00:47:28.902
Like how do you, how do you factor in that the kids are going gonna want to do some AI things and let the AI do some of the work?
00:47:30.012 --> 00:47:33.032
Yeah, that's a, that's a loaded question.
00:47:33.373 --> 00:47:41.222
I figured as much I, well, I'll start with the, the first question of what do, what do I think about companies making that move over?
00:47:43.333 --> 00:47:51.152
I don't necessarily think it's right or wrong, or, or bad, or, I think it, I think it depends on what you're after.
00:47:53.733 --> 00:47:57.193
I think in a lot of respects it can help companies.
00:47:58.858 --> 00:48:09.717
Who don't have the resources and don't have the means to, to have those type of experiences that, you know, maybe a team of highly trained engineers can give you, right?
00:48:10.588 --> 00:48:15.237
you can type it into a box and or say it, it will produce it for you, right?
00:48:15.237 --> 00:48:16.748
I think there's a lot of value in that.
00:48:17.788 --> 00:48:20.788
so I won't immediately like dismiss it and say that's bad.
00:48:21.987 --> 00:48:32.367
I do think that it does open up a different question of do you understand the goals that you're after?
00:48:32.757 --> 00:48:35.547
Do you understand the type of experience that you want to create?
00:48:36.088 --> 00:48:45.807
And if you do, you can articulate that to this tool and it will, it will generate exactly what you need.
00:48:46.617 --> 00:48:57.507
So where I'm seeing people really get the benefit of it, if, if you have a very clear vision about what you're trying to accomplish, and this tool can help you get there faster.
00:48:58.422 --> 00:48:59.833
There's, there it is.
00:49:00.043 --> 00:49:07.302
And it may not necessarily be a thing of laying off of jobs or anything like that.
00:49:07.393 --> 00:49:23.862
Now, again, I think there are some scenarios where somebody jumped on the AI train really quickly, maybe made some bad decisions, and then had to come back and adjust some things maybe in the form of layoffs or, you know, some other fashion, and we should just call that out for what it is, right?
00:49:24.438 --> 00:49:25.663
You just made a bad decision
00:49:25.663 --> 00:49:30.253
even if the, the founder or the CEO doesn't, in some cases, like right, we, we call a spade.
00:49:30.253 --> 00:49:30.612
A spade.
00:49:30.617 --> 00:49:31.902
We call a spade a spade, right?
00:49:32.083 --> 00:49:36.822
Somebody made a bad decision, and I, I don't know why we're afraid to just say that,
00:49:37.163 --> 00:49:37.373
right?
00:49:37.838 --> 00:49:40.302
But I think in some cases it's not that.
00:49:40.333 --> 00:49:45.702
I think in some cases it's, I can't afford to have a team of a hundred engineers.
00:49:46.393 --> 00:49:50.143
So this is the next best thing for me.
00:49:50.443 --> 00:49:56.293
So I'm gonna use this, and if I have a clear vision of what I want to accomplish.
00:49:56.818 --> 00:49:57.447
Win-win.
00:49:57.777 --> 00:50:05.547
Now, if you don't have a clear vision and you have this powerful tool, what you'll see is AI slot.
00:50:05.947 --> 00:50:08.418
What you see is like memes and cartoons over social media.
00:50:09.137 --> 00:50:10.168
That's what you're seeing right now.
00:50:10.197 --> 00:50:14.998
That's people that get a new tool and don't really understand the purpose of it.
00:50:15.237 --> 00:50:15.717
Right.
00:50:16.108 --> 00:50:19.047
When you don't understand the purpose of a thing, abuse is inevitable.
00:50:19.438 --> 00:50:19.797
Right.
00:50:20.038 --> 00:50:24.297
So, again, not inherently bad, I think it's just how, how you use it.
00:50:24.748 --> 00:50:33.927
Now when you think about the next generation coming up, I'm actually pretty excited because I'll give you a quick analogy, right.
00:50:33.927 --> 00:50:37.047
So in my background, I know how to do video editing.
00:50:37.318 --> 00:50:40.018
Nothing to the level of what you're probably doing on a regular basis.
00:50:40.023 --> 00:50:40.853
You'd be surprised.
00:50:41.472 --> 00:50:42.452
You would be surprised,
00:50:43.347 --> 00:50:46.918
but you know, I can, I can make my way around Final cut, right?
00:50:47.463 --> 00:50:47.572
But.
00:50:48.492 --> 00:50:52.063
When I do final cut, like at home, I have like two big monitors.
00:50:52.063 --> 00:50:53.112
Like I need a whole setup.
00:50:53.143 --> 00:50:54.733
It's a desktop situation.
00:50:54.733 --> 00:50:58.302
Like I need, I'm not comfortable video editing unless I have that
00:50:58.307 --> 00:50:58.628
right.
00:50:58.657 --> 00:50:58.947
Okay.
00:50:59.608 --> 00:51:02.202
But I had my son do some work for me for Playmaker.
00:51:02.532 --> 00:51:05.592
I said, Hey, can you make me like a, a sizzle reel for something really quick?
00:51:06.373 --> 00:51:08.202
He did it in a couple of hours all on his phone.
00:51:08.202 --> 00:51:08.262
Yeah.
00:51:09.612 --> 00:51:10.873
And I'm going, I wouldn't,
00:51:10.873 --> 00:51:12.023
you can do a lot from your phone now.
00:51:12.068 --> 00:51:14.202
You can do a lot from your phone right now.
00:51:14.202 --> 00:51:18.253
I know I can do it from my phone, but that's just not my preference.
00:51:18.612 --> 00:51:18.853
Right.
00:51:18.913 --> 00:51:20.862
I went to school to do video editing.
00:51:21.282 --> 00:51:23.293
He learned how to do it on TikTok and YouTube.
00:51:24.193 --> 00:51:30.313
He learned on his phone and he's doing the final deliverable on his phone, and I looked at that and I didn't shut him down.
00:51:30.313 --> 00:51:30.943
I embraced it.
00:51:30.943 --> 00:51:33.222
I was like, that's pretty cool, because the clip was hot.
00:51:33.313 --> 00:51:33.463
Right.
00:51:33.463 --> 00:51:33.523
Yeah.
00:51:34.032 --> 00:51:42.307
So I think about it from that perspective of, okay, now this new generation that's coming up, they'll have tools like ai.
00:51:42.672 --> 00:51:45.432
And in my household, I, I don't shut it down either.
00:51:45.432 --> 00:51:45.733
Right.
00:51:45.733 --> 00:51:48.672
Like, hey, I mean, I feel like this is the future.
00:51:48.853 --> 00:51:50.532
Now don't give up the craft.
00:51:50.623 --> 00:51:52.092
You still need to know your stuff.
00:51:52.813 --> 00:51:54.012
And I'm gonna test you on that.
00:51:54.222 --> 00:51:57.492
Use the tool, but do you know what you're talking about?
00:51:57.793 --> 00:52:04.753
Have to use the tool, or if it did all the work for you, and you can't stand here and explain to me like the old school, like, okay, you do your math.
00:52:04.873 --> 00:52:04.963
Yeah.
00:52:04.963 --> 00:52:05.713
And show your work.
00:52:05.893 --> 00:52:06.822
You gotta show your work.
00:52:07.213 --> 00:52:10.873
So if you can show your work and use a tool at the same time, then yeah.
00:52:10.873 --> 00:52:12.012
I'll, I'll endorse that.
00:52:12.163 --> 00:52:17.083
I think that's, a, a realistic expectation with where things are going.
00:52:17.382 --> 00:52:17.592
Yeah.
00:52:17.592 --> 00:52:35.112
I'm not, I'm not mad at the, to your point, like the, the new generation using it and I'll, I'll give, like, I've heard stories now of like interviews, like people interviewing for jobs and it's like, you can tell they use AI for their resume and then you can also tell they're using AI in the interview.
00:52:35.143 --> 00:52:40.992
And I'm like, like guys, like eventually you can't look at, for the robot to give you.
00:52:41.427 --> 00:52:42.177
The answer.
00:52:42.177 --> 00:52:54.777
And I think the part where I feel comfortable the most with the robot never doing the work is like, at least the foundation of the story coming from a human that makes me feel a lot more
00:52:54.838 --> 00:52:55.047
Yep.
00:52:55.108 --> 00:52:55.827
Comfortable
00:52:55.947 --> 00:52:56.157
right
00:52:56.547 --> 00:52:56.998
with it.
00:52:57.418 --> 00:52:57.898
I agree.
00:52:57.987 --> 00:52:58.617
I agree with that.
00:52:58.617 --> 00:53:03.237
And I think you, you also need to think of it as a thought partner.
00:53:03.657 --> 00:53:03.688
Mm.
00:53:04.318 --> 00:53:07.257
So there's a, a book that we're reading on my job.
00:53:07.288 --> 00:53:08.978
It's called the AI Driven Leader.
00:53:10.077 --> 00:53:11.257
it's by Jeff Woods.
00:53:11.307 --> 00:53:17.967
And the idea is that you do not give over yourself to this robot.
00:53:18.108 --> 00:53:18.717
Right?
00:53:18.858 --> 00:53:32.188
You still remain the, the strategist, the, the ip, the thoughts, the imagination, the originality still comes from you, but you recognize that this is a partner.
00:53:32.277 --> 00:53:39.208
You recognize that this is a thing, that you can tell it something, and that you also set expectations I need for you to do.
00:53:39.927 --> 00:53:45.478
This or that, and you, you instructed on how it is supposed to respond back to you.
00:53:45.478 --> 00:53:47.918
You don't just throw it out there and just go, what do you think?
00:53:48.228 --> 00:53:48.597
Right?
00:53:48.998 --> 00:53:52.527
You have to direct it because you are still very much in control.
00:53:52.527 --> 00:53:55.137
Like don't relinquish that control, to it.
00:53:55.137 --> 00:54:02.277
Now, if you do that, then yes, you can, you can wield it to do whatever it is that you, you needed to do.
00:54:02.367 --> 00:54:02.728
Right?
00:54:03.177 --> 00:54:05.818
I use it on a daily basis.
00:54:06.327 --> 00:54:06.507
Right.
00:54:06.507 --> 00:54:07.047
Me too.
00:54:07.072 --> 00:54:07.452
Me too.
00:54:07.672 --> 00:54:09.237
And it is, and it is crazy.
00:54:09.777 --> 00:54:13.168
It's crazy how, how much more creative I am.
00:54:13.617 --> 00:54:25.588
The, the analogy that I, I've thought about with, you know, with how AI has become so popular in the last two or three years right now, is the transition I had becoming a leader.
00:54:25.887 --> 00:54:26.277
Right?
00:54:26.487 --> 00:54:33.628
When I was an individual contributor, my job was to come in clock in.
00:54:34.663 --> 00:54:41.773
Build the app or do the research or do whatever the ux, you know, process needed me to do that day and then go home.
00:54:42.373 --> 00:54:44.322
And I noticed that I had a limitation.
00:54:45.072 --> 00:54:50.143
I could only work on two high level initiatives at a time.
00:54:50.293 --> 00:55:01.463
Maybe I can do like two major projects and maybe one side project, but if you give me three like high level projects, I just, there's not enough time in the day.
00:55:01.512 --> 00:55:04.333
I can't touch that many people all at one time.
00:55:04.902 --> 00:55:11.713
And so I had limitations, like physical limitations of how much I could do when I became a manager.
00:55:12.552 --> 00:55:21.793
And, and it wasn't just me being promoted, it was me coming into a new role and then being taught that, hey, this is a new job.
00:55:22.242 --> 00:55:23.802
You're no longer an individual contributor.
00:55:24.748 --> 00:55:30.657
As a leader, we don't expect you to know how to use Figma or know how to, you know, facilitate a workshop.
00:55:30.807 --> 00:55:32.878
There's no more player coach, just coach.
00:55:33.088 --> 00:55:34.588
You're more than a coach.
00:55:34.588 --> 00:55:34.617
It's just coach.
00:55:34.648 --> 00:55:35.068
Right.
00:55:35.338 --> 00:55:39.208
And your job is to recognize that you have players on your team.
00:55:39.427 --> 00:55:39.458
And
00:55:39.717 --> 00:55:45.568
your job is to make sure that you do the blocking and tackling so the players can do what they need to do.
00:55:46.208 --> 00:55:47.427
Unbothered, right?
00:55:47.588 --> 00:55:48.217
That's your job.
00:55:48.427 --> 00:55:48.777
Right?
00:55:49.527 --> 00:55:53.398
Once I got that, I was so much more creative.
00:55:54.117 --> 00:55:54.177
Hmm.
00:55:54.177 --> 00:55:55.527
I, I did not expect that.
00:55:55.527 --> 00:56:00.597
I did not expect how creative I would be as a leader, because nobody tells you that when you're in ic.
00:56:00.657 --> 00:56:04.617
They tell you that being a manager is boring and nobody wants to do that, or we don't need managers.
00:56:04.617 --> 00:56:06.177
We can just do it all our ourselves.
00:56:06.748 --> 00:56:15.777
But when I made that crossover properly with the right mentorship, I became way more creative, more creative than I thought I would.
00:56:16.077 --> 00:56:21.927
And the reason was because I wasn't using all of my creativity to do one singular.
00:56:22.768 --> 00:56:30.327
I always use my creativity to create a team of designers that collectively could do more than I could do individually.
00:56:31.228 --> 00:56:34.677
So when AI comes along, I'm going, okay, this is crazy.
00:56:35.157 --> 00:56:37.168
So I'm a design leader with ai.
00:56:38.487 --> 00:56:41.338
Say less, how much more can I do now?
00:56:41.367 --> 00:56:48.628
I can now kind of relinquish a certain task that I do because the computer can do it a lot faster than I can.
00:56:49.137 --> 00:56:54.807
And then when I get back is more strategy things that I can then bring to a team of people to go do.
00:56:54.807 --> 00:56:56.478
So I still keep the human in the middle.
00:56:56.708 --> 00:57:03.237
I still keep the humanity aspect of what we do, but I don't, I don't mix metaphors here.
00:57:03.237 --> 00:57:03.538
Right.
00:57:03.538 --> 00:57:11.487
Like I have a team of people and I have a team of technology tools and I'm trying to use them both appropriately.
00:57:11.907 --> 00:57:12.268
Right.
00:57:12.268 --> 00:57:15.177
To maximize what either I can do or what my team can do.
00:57:15.987 --> 00:57:16.527
Ah, that's dope.
00:57:17.547 --> 00:57:18.148
So.
00:57:20.487 --> 00:57:22.318
Now I know.
00:57:26.277 --> 00:57:34.168
Now I know that you have this mindset, which I think is definitely progressive.
00:57:34.257 --> 00:57:36.148
Like it's, it's where we are.
00:57:36.148 --> 00:57:38.398
Like, like you said, we need to embrace the ai.
00:57:38.398 --> 00:57:42.327
We need to embrace and figure out how to lead in this moment.
00:57:43.858 --> 00:57:55.438
Now that you like, I guess, what are you seeing from, what are you seeing from the, the talent that you're leading or the next generation?
00:57:55.467 --> 00:57:57.447
Like you said, it sounds like you're excited.
00:57:57.507 --> 00:57:57.657
Yeah.
00:57:58.467 --> 00:58:06.507
The, on the space that we're in, and then the next, you know, version of individual contributors and then the, the babies coming up and, and embracing this.
00:58:06.507 --> 00:58:11.757
Like, I guess what, what are you seeing, seeing that?
00:58:14.202 --> 00:58:20.682
How are you seeing them embrace this tool, this moment we're in that separates it from your experience?
00:58:21.492 --> 00:58:21.822
Hmm.
00:58:22.003 --> 00:58:25.483
Because your experience, like you said, you came up, you had some hesitation, right?
00:58:25.483 --> 00:58:25.753
Yeah.
00:58:25.753 --> 00:58:31.963
And then this computer came, and then you just focus more on what you enjoy.
00:58:31.992 --> 00:58:32.322
Yeah.
00:58:32.443 --> 00:58:38.322
Is that the same, are they doing, are they embracing the tool that way and, and saying, I want to do more of the same?
00:58:38.322 --> 00:58:44.233
Or for them, is it more like, we've taken the, the rails off, so be it to a little bit more Yeah.
00:58:44.233 --> 00:58:45.583
And they're just exploring.
00:58:45.762 --> 00:58:46.362
Yeah.
00:58:46.813 --> 00:58:48.193
Any and all ideas?
00:58:48.277 --> 00:58:52.753
I, I think it is that, I think it is they're exploring any and all ideas.
00:58:52.813 --> 00:58:59.532
I think they are embracing technology faster than previous generations.
00:59:00.043 --> 00:59:05.083
I think part of it is because of the speed of it in some respects.
00:59:05.083 --> 00:59:09.853
Like they have no choice but to embrace it if they, they wanna stay relevant.
00:59:10.362 --> 00:59:10.813
Um.
00:59:12.313 --> 00:59:15.092
I think that with that, there is a caution though.
00:59:15.103 --> 00:59:26.742
there is, and I'm not, I don't wanna say this is like a blanket statement, but I think in that speed you can lose some fidelity.
00:59:27.103 --> 00:59:27.552
Right.
00:59:27.793 --> 00:59:37.543
Which previous generations, I think that was the, the, the experience of previous generations, right?
00:59:37.543 --> 00:59:42.643
Like this idea of like, wait, your turn or like you heard the, like the 10,000 hours.
00:59:43.003 --> 00:59:45.913
You're not a professional unless you've done something repetitively.
00:59:46.003 --> 00:59:46.422
Right.
00:59:47.112 --> 00:59:50.322
But now it's hard to do anything for 10,000 hours.
00:59:50.353 --> 00:59:51.163
'cause it all changes.
00:59:52.063 --> 00:59:52.512
Right.
00:59:52.693 --> 00:59:56.563
So now the definition of what 10,000 hours is, might have to change
00:59:56.592 --> 01:00:00.043
and you can do your 10,000 hours with ai.
01:00:00.072 --> 01:00:01.152
How, how much time?
01:00:01.213 --> 01:00:02.293
Well, well, that's the thing.
01:00:02.293 --> 01:00:04.422
So is it, is it a couple days now?
01:00:04.427 --> 01:00:08.112
Is it, is it 10,000 hours squished down to a couple of days?
01:00:08.728 --> 01:00:12.237
And it's the equivalent of somebody who's been in the industry, right?
01:00:12.237 --> 01:00:15.327
Because if it's, here's the, the question, right?
01:00:15.358 --> 01:00:19.168
Don't, don't know right or wrong or what have you, just posing a question.
01:00:19.588 --> 01:00:30.148
If yes, if I need an attorney and I hire a really good attorney to, you know, fix my situation, then yeah, that's, that's great.
01:00:30.148 --> 01:00:49.737
If I have the means to do that, that's great, but if I use a tool that can do it in five minutes The situation is fixed, but the thing I don't have is a relationship with an attorney that I could go back to, or I don't know what levers that attorney pulled or what levers this AI tool pool to solve my issue.
01:00:50.277 --> 01:00:54.088
So now I have to try it again.
01:00:54.148 --> 01:00:58.858
And the difference between a person is there's some level of trust there.
01:00:59.068 --> 01:01:00.867
But even that can be tricky, right?
01:01:00.867 --> 01:01:02.367
Because it is a person, right?
01:01:02.367 --> 01:01:05.518
We're all flawed and we all have issues and all those type of things, right?
01:01:05.907 --> 01:01:08.128
So I don't, I don't necessarily look at it as.
01:01:08.472 --> 01:01:09.523
Right versus wrong.
01:01:09.583 --> 01:01:12.402
I look at it as it's, it's either conditional, right?
01:01:12.432 --> 01:01:18.963
There are risks with having an attorney that's a person, there's a risk of having an attorney that's a bot.
01:01:19.293 --> 01:01:24.222
It just depends on your level of your personal level of
01:01:24.643 --> 01:01:24.793
Yeah.
01:01:24.793 --> 01:01:25.257
What's at stake.
01:01:25.302 --> 01:01:25.483
Yeah.
01:01:25.483 --> 01:01:26.202
What's at stake,
01:01:26.262 --> 01:01:27.583
what's at stake for you.
01:01:27.793 --> 01:01:35.592
But then you also gotta take into consideration what impact would either one of those decisions make on the people that are around you.
01:01:35.893 --> 01:01:36.282
Right.
01:01:36.552 --> 01:01:47.322
So, yeah, you would, you, instead of hiring an attorney for your business, you hired AI and it solved the one case, but then is your entire business riding on that?
01:01:47.757 --> 01:01:49.182
You, are you okay with that risk?
01:01:49.572 --> 01:01:52.063
You know, fair or file?
01:01:52.123 --> 01:01:52.393
Right.
01:01:52.393 --> 01:01:53.443
Did, did it work?
01:01:53.532 --> 01:01:54.012
Right?
01:01:54.222 --> 01:01:54.463
So
01:01:54.612 --> 01:01:55.422
that's up to the person.
01:01:55.512 --> 01:01:57.163
It's, it's ultimately up to the person.
01:01:57.202 --> 01:01:57.503
Right.
01:01:57.733 --> 01:02:00.632
Even the, the, the outcome.
01:02:00.753 --> 01:02:01.172
Right.
01:02:01.722 --> 01:02:03.643
Backlash, the good and the bad.
01:02:03.672 --> 01:02:03.913
Right?
01:02:03.918 --> 01:02:03.938
Yeah.
01:02:04.032 --> 01:02:06.972
So if you, if you take the pats on the back when it works.
01:02:07.617 --> 01:02:09.987
You gotta take the hits when it don't.
01:02:10.318 --> 01:02:10.378
Yeah.
01:02:10.498 --> 01:02:22.797
And, and I think the, the AI has a, a built-in mechanism to please a little bit, that worries me to your point.
01:02:22.797 --> 01:02:43.117
Like you meant going back to the fidelity and so it's like, it's going to tell you in most cases, like to keep going through something versus having the, the, the actual experience of like touching something and somebody telling you like, no, that Don't do that anymore.
01:02:43.228 --> 01:02:43.628
Like, right,
01:02:43.827 --> 01:02:44.068
right.
01:02:44.068 --> 01:02:44.788
You know what I mean?
01:02:44.788 --> 01:02:47.338
Like, there is no, it, it's both sides though.
01:02:47.342 --> 01:02:47.413
It
01:02:47.612 --> 01:02:48.177
is, it is.
01:02:48.418 --> 01:02:51.387
E exploration is like crazy right now.
01:02:51.387 --> 01:02:56.248
Any idea can be explored, but then it's like, okay, what do you really want to put your resources into?
01:02:57.387 --> 01:02:57.657
That's right.
01:02:57.938 --> 01:02:58.007
That's right.
01:02:58.193 --> 01:03:04.338
And you know what, and I've, I've, I've heard people say that, you know, it, it's agreeable, you know, and all those types of things.
01:03:05.293 --> 01:03:09.163
Again, at the same time, if you know it's agreeable, tell it to not
01:03:09.373 --> 01:03:09.612
Yeah.
01:03:09.612 --> 01:03:10.813
That you brought that out early.
01:03:10.813 --> 01:03:11.802
You brought that out early.
01:03:11.862 --> 01:03:13.273
Tell it to challenge you.
01:03:13.512 --> 01:03:14.112
And I do that.
01:03:14.112 --> 01:03:17.952
Like another thing that I like to do is I tell it to interview me.
01:03:18.103 --> 01:03:21.762
I don't want it to assume The right answer or whatever.
01:03:21.762 --> 01:03:28.003
It's, I want you to interview me so that you can take what I'm saying as
01:03:28.092 --> 01:03:28.273
Yeah.
01:03:28.452 --> 01:03:29.083
You know, value.
01:03:29.143 --> 01:03:35.443
I think it, and that makes sense because the way, the way where we're at now, it's definitely more efficient.
01:03:35.443 --> 01:03:43.032
AI in doing like more like deterministic, like going down set paths versus being like, Hey, see how many paths there are.
01:03:43.032 --> 01:03:46.032
And you pick one and it's like, well, it's a black box.
01:03:46.032 --> 01:03:47.862
I don't know why it's picking any, yeah.
01:03:47.893 --> 01:03:49.003
It'll just keep going.
01:03:49.003 --> 01:03:50.862
It'll just keep saying, yeah, let's keep exploring.
01:03:50.862 --> 01:03:51.342
It's like.
01:03:52.003 --> 01:03:55.902
No, like I need a little bit more, like you said, definition around this.
01:03:56.202 --> 01:03:58.302
So that's, that's that, that's key.
01:03:58.307 --> 01:03:58.387
You
01:03:58.387 --> 01:03:58.788
gotta define
01:03:58.788 --> 01:03:58.867
it.
01:03:58.867 --> 01:03:59.983
Yeah, you gotta define it.
01:03:59.983 --> 01:04:01.092
still puts us in the middle.
01:04:01.483 --> 01:04:01.722
Exactly.
01:04:01.782 --> 01:04:05.152
So I wanna, I want to bring this, a little bit full circle here.
01:04:05.152 --> 01:04:20.083
How can, well let us know, like for the Playmaker program with the next generation of gamers, game developers, like what's in store for this upcoming year and then how people can tap in and support, like what does that support look like?
01:04:20.242 --> 01:04:20.753
Absolutely.
01:04:21.693 --> 01:04:26.952
well, for many people, if you go to calvin robertson.com.
01:04:27.358 --> 01:04:28.768
You can find me, right?
01:04:28.768 --> 01:04:32.057
I'm working on a, a new, website.
01:04:32.057 --> 01:04:36.088
So depending on when people hear this, they, they may see that, but if not, you know, you
01:04:36.088 --> 01:04:38.188
always have Calvin Robinson, I don't see
01:04:38.188 --> 01:04:38.277
you.
01:04:38.282 --> 01:04:39.807
We always have Calvin Robinson, right?
01:04:39.807 --> 01:04:44.697
So that'll, that'll be the best way to connect with me to, to all the things that, that we're gonna be doing.
01:04:45.527 --> 01:04:50.847
but more specifically, we have a, another summer game camp coming up.
01:04:51.657 --> 01:04:57.628
this summer we're gonna do it again at Duke Greater, this will be our third Playmaker game design camp.
01:04:57.628 --> 01:04:59.967
So they're always a great, great experience.
01:04:59.967 --> 01:05:03.038
So, you know, again, connect with me online for, for that.
01:05:04.327 --> 01:05:07.538
I also have a couple of speaking engagements coming up.
01:05:07.577 --> 01:05:10.557
occasionally I will do a, a, a speaking tour.
01:05:11.128 --> 01:05:14.128
one will be in Amsterdam, middle of April.
01:05:15.148 --> 01:05:24.117
I'll be there, at the Smashing Conference this year, and then later in the year, in the October timeframe, will be in the Maryland area at the UX conference.
01:05:25.217 --> 01:05:25.498
there.
01:05:25.538 --> 01:05:27.237
So look for more on that.
01:05:27.237 --> 01:05:32.307
And so, but other than that, yeah, you'll see me on social media releasing, more things.
01:05:32.307 --> 01:05:36.297
I'm also working on another, another game, a word game.
01:05:37.047 --> 01:05:38.577
so be on the lookout for that.
01:05:39.628 --> 01:05:44.458
and so singly enough, it's a, the original version of this game, it's actually a Dutch game.
01:05:44.998 --> 01:05:48.057
So it's kind of serendipitous that I'm going to Amsterdam,
01:05:49.318 --> 01:05:49.827
that's dope
01:05:49.827 --> 01:05:54.677
in a few weeks and I'll, I'll go there and, you know, kind of share that game with the people there.
01:05:54.677 --> 01:05:57.297
And, but yeah, that'll be coming out later this year too.
01:05:57.568 --> 01:06:03.268
And I'm curious like, it is conference season, to, to the start of the year for sure.
01:06:03.297 --> 01:06:27.507
I'm curious, when you get into the UX conferences and you're in, in these spaces, like is there anything in particular that's exciting you, like anything upcoming that you're like, oh, like make sure this is on your radar, not for people that may not, not just for the UX professionals, but like for founders, like, hey, what tools are out there from a design perspective that help me tell a story to my audience?
01:06:27.507 --> 01:06:28.108
Is there anything,
01:06:28.827 --> 01:06:30.867
well, maybe a slightly different angle.
01:06:30.867 --> 01:06:40.378
I think the thing that is really, you know, getting me, and this is one of the things that I'm gonna be speaking about at these conferences, is really the transition in leader.
01:06:41.532 --> 01:06:49.543
'cause I think a lot of the challenges that we're having, whether it's gaming industry or tech industry or UX, is leadership.
01:06:49.603 --> 01:06:55.963
We don't always have leaders who understand the space Or understand how to build teams.
01:06:56.233 --> 01:07:00.313
And the biggest challenge with that is we have good people.
01:07:00.313 --> 01:07:06.313
They know their craft, but they weren't guided into leadership because it is a different job.
01:07:06.882 --> 01:07:14.652
And so that's one of the things that, you know, I've been really big on in the past couple of years, because everybody's talking about tools, right?
01:07:14.652 --> 01:07:17.563
Everybody's talking about processes and all those type of things.
01:07:17.563 --> 01:07:20.123
And so I feel like, yeah, we have enough of that.
01:07:20.438 --> 01:07:20.447
The
01:07:20.773 --> 01:07:25.782
thing nobody's talking about is how do I, how do I change this climate?
01:07:25.842 --> 01:07:27.193
How do I change this environment?
01:07:27.193 --> 01:07:27.222
Mm.
01:07:27.253 --> 01:07:31.393
How do I create an environment where designers can come in and solve real problems?
01:07:31.543 --> 01:07:31.963
Right.
01:07:31.992 --> 01:07:35.143
Developers can come in and, and do some awesome things.
01:07:35.878 --> 01:07:38.007
Then even with ai, right?
01:07:38.038 --> 01:07:46.378
How you gotta be in a position of some level of authority to even, you know, make, you know, that type of impact.
01:07:46.407 --> 01:07:57.967
And so for me, that's been really, really key that I, I start to spread that Message a little bit, because again, it's that same analogy I gave about being an ic, coming to a manager.
01:07:58.737 --> 01:07:58.938
Yeah.
01:07:59.108 --> 01:08:09.568
I can tell you about tools, but if I get in your head and show you how you can be a better leader, you bring all the tools that you have with you, which will far exceed the tools that I can have.
01:08:09.657 --> 01:08:14.038
It's like both of us can bring to our, you know, respective spheres of influence.
01:08:14.038 --> 01:08:15.927
We can bring all of our tools together.
01:08:16.587 --> 01:08:20.188
But the conversation that we had is really about how do I get you to see.
01:08:20.818 --> 01:08:22.497
Yourself as a leader.
01:08:22.618 --> 01:08:23.097
Exactly.
01:08:23.097 --> 01:08:23.158
You
01:08:23.158 --> 01:08:23.997
show up in your,
01:08:24.028 --> 01:08:25.137
in whatever space you're in, in
01:08:25.137 --> 01:08:25.948
whatever space you're
01:08:25.948 --> 01:08:26.007
in.
01:08:26.007 --> 01:08:26.158
Yeah.
01:08:26.158 --> 01:08:32.698
And I, I think that's powerful because like you said, we go on, like everybody's a, a student of YouTube University now.
01:08:32.698 --> 01:08:38.307
Like you can easily go up there and learn a tool, learn a language, learn a, a process or procedure.
01:08:38.307 --> 01:08:48.328
And it's like now that we're at that point, it's like, like the value is definitely in you showing up and then unlocking value for yourself and more importantly for others like
01:08:48.332 --> 01:08:48.353
other
01:08:48.353 --> 01:08:48.632
people.
01:08:48.693 --> 01:08:50.247
And the critical thinking that goes with
01:08:50.658 --> 01:08:50.688
that.
01:08:50.787 --> 01:08:57.207
It's like, we don't, we don't, if there was a, a YouTube video, you don't see that many YouTube videos.
01:08:57.207 --> 01:08:59.278
There's a plethora YouTube videos about Figma.
01:08:59.757 --> 01:09:00.268
Oh, for sure.
01:09:00.328 --> 01:09:01.917
But that part, yeah.
01:09:01.917 --> 01:09:06.478
You don't see too many people and, and specifically see people like dive into it.
01:09:07.137 --> 01:09:08.398
It's few and far between.
01:09:08.398 --> 01:09:08.488
Right.
01:09:08.573 --> 01:09:09.358
That's, that's it.
01:09:09.688 --> 01:09:09.938
That's it.
01:09:09.938 --> 01:09:09.948
Yeah.
01:09:09.948 --> 01:09:10.132
That's few and far.
01:09:10.193 --> 01:09:14.007
So that's, so that's, again, that's part of my, my speaking tour.
01:09:14.097 --> 01:09:15.268
It is really my concept.
01:09:15.347 --> 01:09:17.028
I'm calling overflowing leadership.
01:09:17.997 --> 01:09:22.783
to where I talk with aspiring leaders about how do you, don't just keep the leadership to yourself.
01:09:23.113 --> 01:09:28.092
How do you pass it on to a team to where they can start to do things that exceed what you can do as a
01:09:28.212 --> 01:09:28.332
Yeah.
01:09:28.332 --> 01:09:28.842
That's dope.
01:09:28.903 --> 01:09:30.342
Coming to a platform near you.
01:09:30.342 --> 01:09:35.172
So I will definitely be supporting and you let us know how we can, help out there beyond normal media.
01:09:35.222 --> 01:09:35.672
Absolutely.
01:09:35.672 --> 01:09:42.823
Lastly, for this season, this, we're, we're definitely asking our guests to challenge people's thinking, right?
01:09:42.823 --> 01:10:01.813
And so I want you to close us out, you know, what do you want people to change about the way that they think about design after this, you know, hearing this incredible conversation where you dropped so many gems, but like, what do you want people to change after hearing this?
01:10:01.813 --> 01:10:01.872
Yeah.
01:10:01.903 --> 01:10:05.233
And then moving forward about the space of design.
01:10:05.323 --> 01:10:05.613
Absolutely.
01:10:08.863 --> 01:10:10.323
that design is a byproduct.
01:10:11.773 --> 01:10:13.363
Design is.
01:10:14.712 --> 01:10:17.563
In most people's minds the way something looks.
01:10:18.372 --> 01:10:23.802
And if that were true, then I would say that it is a, it is a byproduct.
01:10:23.893 --> 01:10:42.953
And so then the next question is, it's a byproduct of what it, and I've mentioned this earlier, it's if you understand people, and if you can articulate the problems that people are having in a productive way, then you've already halfway come up with a good design, right?
01:10:43.403 --> 01:10:47.533
Like the adage that says, A, a well-defined problem is a solution have solved.
01:10:48.762 --> 01:10:48.792
Mm.
01:10:48.792 --> 01:10:53.533
So design in its true nature, not how we like to promote it today.
01:10:53.802 --> 01:11:00.403
Design was really about solving problems, and the output of that was just a better solution, right?
01:11:00.408 --> 01:11:13.153
And so if we, if we change that, that idea to say that it's, it's really the outcome of the byproduct of, first, I want to go in and understand who you are as a person or as a people or as a culture.
01:11:13.632 --> 01:11:15.372
And then understand what your problems are.
01:11:15.372 --> 01:11:16.842
And I, I can articulate that.
01:11:17.052 --> 01:11:20.292
Then it's almost like the goal will be sitting on top of the ground.
01:11:20.292 --> 01:11:25.693
Like I don't have to design it because the design will just reveal itself because I spend more time unpacking you.
01:11:26.443 --> 01:11:27.042
Oh, that's dope.
01:11:27.252 --> 01:11:27.493
Yeah.
01:11:28.122 --> 01:11:29.363
I ain't gonna say nothing else.
01:11:29.993 --> 01:11:35.023
thank you for tuning into another great episode of The Beyond Normal Podcast, Calvin.
01:11:35.023 --> 01:11:40.302
Appreciate you for coming on, and we'll definitely be supporting and figuring out how we can tap in with the Playmaker program.
01:11:40.393 --> 01:11:40.903
Absolutely.
01:11:41.082 --> 01:11:41.653
Thank you, sir.
01:11:41.953 --> 01:11:42.372
All right, now
01:11:42.432 --> 01:11:42.882
take care.