WEBVTT
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00:00:05.839This is a really great time in history, at least in medical history for our country.
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00:00:13.839Because there's a lot in the press right now about vaccines, but in particular about people starting to talk about them.
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00:00:20.239All I know is that the that you don't help yourself by trying to cloud the controversy in secrecy.
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00:00:49.039Hi everyone, welcome to another Beyond Labels podcast with your hosts, Joel Salatin, the farmer, that would be me, and Cena McCullough, our great um scientific researcher, who has been following the whole vaccine vis-a-vis measles uh situation in Pennsylvania, the sparring between Governor Shapiro and RFK Jr.
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00:00:54.719Uh and and just what's happening around the world with this discussion of vaccine.
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00:00:56.640And it's not all negative.
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00:01:07.359Um you know, just being able to bring this taboo subject into the open, into the public discourse is uh actually a bit of a of a gift.
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00:01:21.840So Cena's been actually working on this um uh behind the scenes, and I'm gonna let her lead off and we'll see where she goes with these discussions of measles and vaccines and other things.
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00:01:23.519Awesome.
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00:01:24.079Okay.
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00:01:40.640So I wanted to start off, Joel, by saying that I think this is a really great time in history because at least in medical history for our country, because I have found a whole bunch of stories.
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00:01:50.560There's a lot in the press right now about um vaccines, but in particular about people starting to talk about them.
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00:01:59.280And so I know you and I on the show were really um supporters of informed decisions.
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00:02:04.000So whether or not people choose to vaccinate, I feel like it's none of my business.
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00:02:06.640You know, you do what you feel compelled to do.
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00:02:10.960We just want people to have the information so they can make the informed decision.
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00:02:17.599And I feel like right now there's momentum behind that sentiment.
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00:02:29.599So, for example, uh on September 8th is the first time that Canadian lawmakers are hearing testimony from Canadians who are injured by a COVID vaccine.
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00:02:37.280This is the Allison Inquiry, uh, led by a Canadian conservative member of Parliament, um, Dean Allison.
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00:02:51.599And Senator uh Johnson, Ron Johnson from Wisconsin, uh here in the U.S., is actually speaking or actually spoke at that um, you know, at that inquiry meeting.
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00:02:56.159Wow, uh an American senator spoke at a Canadian Parliament meeting.
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00:03:02.240Yeah, and so this one, so it wasn't like an official meeting.
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00:03:11.680You know, this was um this can this conservative member of parliament is hosting this what's called the Allison inquiry.
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00:03:12.560Oh, okay.
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00:03:18.560So it's a kind of um, it's a kind of uh uh it's called a senatorial side hustle.
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00:03:20.400Yes, yes, yes.
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00:03:25.840And so if he's invited other people and they're streaming it, you know, you could actually live stream it.
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00:03:28.960And uh one of the main guests is Senator Johnson.
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00:03:41.360So we have, you know, this is now it's it's like a globe, it's become a global issue, and there's people working together in these different countries um to actually kind of to help bring truth about.
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00:03:56.719Um, I saw the opening of it, and he talks about how uh and and so this is the Canadian lawmaker, and off the bat, he rambled off things like the government hid myocarditis reports.
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00:04:06.080Um, there's the ejections may cause cancer, there's flawed science, there's corruption um in industry, government, and academia, like on and on.
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00:04:09.199And and so here's one example.
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00:04:30.399Then you go over to Australia, and there's actually this Australian event that is calling for a Royal Commission into COVID, and they're having uh doctors, um, academics, lawyers, politicians, one politician who was censored on YouTube is attending this event.
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00:04:32.720Um, Barry Young is gonna be there.
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00:04:35.680Have you heard his story, this New Zealand whistleblower?
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00:05:01.519No, I haven't heard his, but but just before we but just to make sure we're bringing all of our listeners along with us, everybody needs to realize is as bad as as bad as COVID was in the U.S., I mean, as far as public policy, Canada and Australia, I can tell you, were two or three time magnitudes worse than the U.S.
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00:05:03.839in COVID policy.
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00:05:09.759Cena, we had a we had a lady in the farm store, uh, her brother is it lives in Australia.
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00:05:17.279She was in the farm store uh buying something, and she told me she'd that morning she'd gotten a call from her brother in Australia.
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00:05:21.519He'd gone out to the curb to pick up the newspaper.
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00:05:35.360And when he got about 20 feet from his front door, a drone came, hovered over him with a loudspeaker saying, Get back in your house because he had ventured too far from his house.
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00:05:55.360You cannot leave your house unless you gave a 15-minute pre-warning registry to the a government, a government database, who you were, where you were going, and then when you got to wherever you were going, you had to check in within 15 minutes that you got there to the government database.
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00:06:01.519I mean, it was wow, it it it made us look like like we were a free country.
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00:06:21.439Uh so I think I think the fact that Canada and Australia are the first two countries you're talking about in having this discussion is significant because they they were they were so um draconian in their in their covet responses compared to the US.
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00:06:29.600Yes, and we have uh one of our listeners, Barry Green, uh is the one who tipped me off to that event.
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00:06:36.480He he lives there in um Australia, and he's on Taurus Radio, you know, great guy.
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00:06:43.839And he was telling me that so this is a global event now because you have somebody from New Zealand, you have somebody from America.
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00:06:46.639Again, it's Senator Johnson's gonna be there again.
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00:06:52.879And this Royal Commission into COVID, it's the most powerful inquiry he said that they could get.
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00:07:01.519He also said that the mood, he thinks the mood of the people there in Australia is turning against the major parties.
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00:07:04.000Like they've had enough, right?
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00:07:11.600They they want um transparency, accountability, you know, just some honesty.
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00:07:12.319Right.
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00:07:15.120Um, and so I I think it's a big deal.
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00:07:34.800Um, the New Zealand whistleblower, in short, um, he was a database administrator and um he built the uh New Zealand um COVID vax database and he he said that he had found um disease clusters uh linked to the vaccine and he released the data.
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00:07:41.839So it's my understanding that he released it to the public and then he faced legal repercussions.
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00:07:44.720So he was arrested in December of 2023.
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00:07:50.560He was charged with accessing a computer system for dishonest purposes.
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00:07:52.639Wow.
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00:07:58.959That's right.
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00:07:59.680That's right.
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00:08:01.680And he felt that people had a right to know.
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00:08:04.079Like people were dying, children were dying.
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00:08:07.279He pleaded not guilty, it's in court now.
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00:08:12.639Um, the court apparently is reviewing if he qualifies for whistleblower status.
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00:08:27.279Uh the latest I heard, uh, Barry sent this was that this the information, you know, this data that that is in this system is being withheld from the judge.
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00:08:31.439So the other lawyer is saying that we're not gonna let you see it.
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00:08:35.759And the judge has said, No, you need to let me see it.
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00:08:38.080Like this is this is absurd.
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00:08:41.519It it's it's it's really crazy.
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00:08:54.639Um there's even there was even a paper, I found this, a paper published um out of the University Um of Auckland, if I'm saying that right, business school.
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00:09:02.000This is in June of 2025, defending Barry, saying that the government is not transparent and accountable.
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00:09:09.279So, quote, whistleblowers have become the last line of defense for safeguarding the public interest.
00:09:09.679 -->
00:09:20.080It's the the article goes on to say that protecting public sector whistleblowers is not only a moral duty, but also a practical necessity.
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00:09:26.639But whistleblowers can still face criminal charges when they disclose government information to the public.
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00:09:30.080Um, and so they're saying they don't deserve to go to jail, right?
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00:09:35.679I mean, what else are you gonna do in a system where the government is not being transparent and not accountable?
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00:09:38.320Like that's why we have whistleblower protection laws.
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00:09:38.639Right.
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00:09:40.720Like, so I'm following this one.
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00:09:41.840We'll see what happens.
00:09:41.919 -->
00:09:47.360But the point is he is now he came to this Australian event as well.
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00:09:50.799So again, people from other countries are coming together.
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00:09:55.440Um and then in the UK, you know, the government has just changed hand hands.
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00:09:56.879They have a new prime minister.
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00:10:11.519And there is a letter that was sent by over 160 medical doctors, scientists, other health professionals, and some public figures like Woody Harrelson and Rob Schneider.
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00:10:24.320Um, and they they've signed this open letter that is demanding rigorous, independent inquiry into the potential harms of the vaccine.
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00:10:37.279And they're saying that the boosters should be stopped until the data has been independently examined um and there's like a review panel on it.
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00:10:50.960So that's Canada, Australia, the UK, I mean, they're they're all right now holding these events and submitting, you know, uh asking for accountability.
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00:10:56.720Yeah, these these are these these are all primarily British uh British cultures.
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00:10:59.759They're all they're all pretty British cultures.
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00:11:15.440And and and and um if I could just add a a little um oh a little personal uh note here, you know, I've I've I've been to Australia 16 times, uh been to Canada way more than that, and the UK uh a bunch of times as well.
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00:11:37.440And um, you know, speaking, and and you know, it's amazing those those those British kind of leftover British um uh cultures, they're they're way uh they're way more conformant con conforming than Americans.
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00:11:40.720Americans, I mean, we were rebels, you know.
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00:11:43.679We threw off the British, we got rid of the king.
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00:12:11.679Um I mean rebellion and and distrust of authority is kind of in our DNA, in American DNA, but Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, they didn't throw off the throw off the king, and they're much more willing to just bow and take it, if you will.
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00:12:13.840Just just you know, go on.
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00:12:22.639And and be because they didn't um they didn't throw off anything in their um in their respective histories.
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00:12:29.840And and and you I really see it in they're just not as um as free loving as Americans.
00:12:29.919 -->
00:12:39.840I mean, I tell a joke, and here in America, you know, you tell a joke and people just you know, they fall out of their chairs and laugh, and they're perfect completely, you know, um spontaneous and free.
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00:12:54.720In those cultures, it's a very controlled, you know, um, you know, a very um we're we're royalty, you know, and we have to put on uh a certain decorum.
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00:13:01.919Um we can't be just uh free-spirited like you, uh you uh rambunctious Americans.
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00:13:08.720We have a certain uh you know modicum of civility we have to you know put forth.
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00:13:18.879So so for those kind for those countries to be coming to this point is way more profound than if America were coming to this point.
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00:13:20.639Yeah.
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00:13:28.399We're kind of wild, free, rebellious spirits that rambunctious, yeah, yeah.
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00:13:30.320Yes.
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00:13:32.080No, so that's fantastic.
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00:13:38.879That yeah, and and again, you know, your it's your choice, whatever you're choosing to do.
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00:13:44.159I I'm just saying I think it's great that we're having conversations about it.
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00:13:45.120Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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00:13:47.440Um because that's the whole point.
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00:13:48.320Let's discuss it.
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00:13:53.200It's it's the secrecy, it's it's the secrecy that's so culturally destructive.
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00:13:53.919That's right.
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00:14:15.039And of course, that's what's going on right now with the with the pushback on data centers, um because of the secrecy and these these uh non-disclosure agreements and all these local local elect local elected uh um uh politicians that that that can't discuss what's coming to town and what the plan is and what the tax concession is.
00:14:15.200 -->
00:14:24.080And they got all these NDAs, and and so it's just they're all I'm not here to take a big position pro or negative on data centers.
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00:14:31.519All I know is that the that you don't help yourself by trying to cloud the controversy in secrecy.
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00:14:42.399Yeah, the only the only way you can move beyond mistrust and uh and and all of that is um is transparency, get it out in the open.
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00:14:44.320So yeah, I I I agree with you.
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00:14:47.360I I think it's I think it's wonderful uh that this is happening.
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00:14:49.519It's it's too bad it's so late, you know.
00:14:49.679 -->
00:14:53.759Kind of, well, glad you finally showed up to the game, you know.
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00:14:56.399But um, but we'll take it.
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00:14:57.519Yes, yeah.
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00:15:07.279So speaking of mistrust, uh, I don't know if you've been following what's happening in Pennsylvania, but it's a hotbed right now.
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00:15:08.879This this is crazy.
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00:15:20.639And there's a lot of people posting that they no longer trust the governor, Shapiro, um, and they're saying they're calling him a liar.
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00:15:27.840And again, this is the thing because they're not being transp, he was not being transparent um with information.
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00:15:32.240So let's let's jump into that story next.
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00:15:43.759Um and then I want to tell you though, I'm excited to share what I have found today because that story sparked like a maternal instinct in me, and I went down the rabbit hole.
00:15:43.919 -->
00:15:50.399So uh I have some great things to share about how to protect your children uh from measles.
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00:16:13.519Okay, so first, so the um the if you haven't been following, the governor of Pennsylvania came out, had this like press conference, uh, I believe it was August 25th, and saying that two people in Pennsylvania had died that were from uh measles associated deaths.
00:16:14.080 -->
00:16:22.159So they had died from some kind of a you know illness that was associated with measles, and that they were unvaccinated.
00:16:23.440 -->
00:16:48.080Kennedy posted on X that the governor uh may have fabricated the cases because the governor would not disclose information about the two deaths, and they were trying to get information, so people were talking to the coroner, for example, and the coroner was not corroborating the story that the governor was saying.
00:16:48.639 -->
00:16:53.919Um, so Shapiro fought back and accused Kennedy of playing games.
00:16:54.320 -->
00:16:58.720Uh I mean it was it was pay pretty much like mudslinging, you know.
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00:17:02.000And it became a a national news story.
00:17:02.159 -->
00:17:11.839New York Times, you know, legacy media outlets ran headlines saying things like six-week-old infant died from measles, the Lancaster coroner said.
00:17:13.200 -->
00:17:16.240But there wasn't any explanation, any follow-ups.
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00:17:25.759So what we know now at this point of us recording this is that there were two deaths in Pennsylvania.
00:17:26.880 -->
00:17:29.440The they were both in infants.
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00:17:33.759Okay, infants are too young to get the MMR vaccine.
00:17:33.839 -->
00:17:36.640That's the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine.
00:17:37.200 -->
00:17:40.160So they could not have been vaccinated, right, right?
00:17:40.319 -->
00:17:47.279So they are it is true that the two deaths were unvaccinated individuals, but they did not qualify to get the vaccine.
00:17:48.160 -->
00:17:53.759They were in Lancaster County, right, home of the largest Amish pop Amish population.
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00:18:07.039One of the infants has the last I read, the coroner confirmed that the infant tested positive for measles, but did not die of measles.
00:18:07.519 -->
00:18:09.839That infant died of a lacerated spleen.
00:18:11.279 -->
00:18:14.480The second infant had a fatal genetic.
00:18:15.759 -->
00:18:16.799Was it an injury?
00:18:17.519 -->
00:18:26.559Um, so the last report I read, this was not from the coroner, this was from somebody else, said that it may have been during labor that the spleen was lacerated.
00:18:26.960 -->
00:18:27.680Oh wow.
00:18:27.920 -->
00:18:28.079Yeah.
00:18:28.559 -->
00:18:30.240A birthing, a birthing injury.
00:18:30.480 -->
00:18:30.720Yeah.
00:18:31.440 -->
00:18:31.839Wow.
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00:18:38.880Um, again, you know, unconfirmed at the time of us recording this, but that is the leading theory that I read.
00:18:39.279 -->
00:18:47.200The second infant had a fatal um genetic defect, is what they how they've described it.
00:18:47.599 -->
00:18:56.079And that specific defect leads to a very small brain, which impairs the immune system.
00:18:56.400 -->
00:19:05.920And typically babies born with that genetic defect don't live past six months, and they are typically killed by some sort of respiratory virus.
00:19:06.079 -->
00:19:09.279So even a common cold can can kill them.
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00:19:27.440That baby was tested positive for measles, and the last I read that one was declared as um caused by measles, and that's based on the CDC's definition of how to classify a death.
00:19:28.559 -->
00:19:53.359So it's kind of reminiscent of COVID caused by or you know, died with this one, I believe, based on the CDC's definition, you have to list it as the cause of death because it was the measles, you know, that that triggered this demise based on this underlying genetic condition.
00:19:53.839 -->
00:20:01.279For that second baby, the second infant who died, um, this is the one that had the genetic defect.
00:20:01.680 -->
00:20:09.359The they haven't actually told us how they determined that the baby had measles.
00:20:09.759 -->
00:20:25.119There they've said that the doctors, like the attending and treating medical doctors, evaluated and diagnosed this baby with measles based on like clinical findings and medical history.
00:20:25.599 -->
00:20:35.440But we don't know at this point, uh as of the recording right now, we don't know if they used like antibody tests or they used PCR testing.
00:20:35.680 -->
00:20:47.759If they used antibody testing, then it's possible that the mother had measles at some point and developed antibodies against it and transferred those protective antibodies to the baby.
00:20:47.920 -->
00:20:55.680So in that situation, the presence of antibodies in the baby could actually indicate protection against measles.
00:20:56.319 -->
00:21:02.400The other path is if they used PCR or polymerase chain reaction testing.
00:21:02.720 -->
00:21:13.519And in that sense, then we don't know how many cycles, for example, they used to determine if a quote-unquote virus was present.
00:21:13.759 -->
00:21:15.599So did they use too many cycles?
00:21:15.759 -->
00:21:16.160We don't know.
00:21:16.240 -->
00:21:16.880We saw this.
00:21:16.960 -->
00:21:20.640This is the same playbook that we've seen in recent history.
00:21:21.119 -->
00:21:24.400Um, so that has to still be teased out.
00:21:24.559 -->
00:21:34.559Um, Kennedy is not convinced, apparently, that measles caused that death of that second child, the second infant.
00:21:35.200 -->
00:21:39.519I mean, it has not been posted yet on the CDC website, and they said they're looking into it.
00:21:39.680 -->
00:21:40.720So he's not convinced.
00:21:40.799 -->
00:21:43.680I think he's waiting for this information to come out.
00:21:44.160 -->
00:21:58.640Um and so I want to say that I know we have a varied audience, and measles is is defined as a quote unquote virus by mainstream medicine and science.
00:21:59.039 -->
00:22:04.799And You know, that and that means the PCR testing may be totally void anyway.
00:22:05.200 -->
00:22:10.960Um, so that is a bigger topic than what we're gonna cover today.
00:22:11.119 -->
00:22:13.279And I'm not discounting or dismissing that.
00:22:13.440 -->
00:22:24.480Today I'm gonna bring you some new evidence, um, a brand new study that's been released about um transmissibility of um measles and such.
00:22:24.640 -->
00:22:30.960So I want you to just bear with me because today we're just gonna talk about what mainstream is saying.
00:22:31.279 -->
00:22:35.599I am separately doing this deep dive into what do I think measles actually is.
00:22:35.839 -->
00:22:43.680There is a strong micronutrient deficiency component to measles, but we're only gonna touch on that today.
00:22:44.000 -->
00:22:47.359Again, this is a huge topic, so just stay with us on this.
00:22:47.440 -->
00:23:00.319And if anyone's interested in me doing that kind of deep dive into what do we think measles actually is, um, and what is transmission and you know, things like that, then let us know.
00:23:00.480 -->
00:23:01.519Send us a message, let us know.
00:23:01.680 -->
00:23:08.000For right now, we're just gonna go with what's being talked about on the mainstream, um, and you know, the data that we have at hand.
00:23:08.559 -->
00:23:16.559So at the time of this recording, the CDC said that they're gonna review the cases.
00:23:17.279 -->
00:23:21.839And and they they've been trying to review it, they've been having a hard time getting information.
00:23:22.480 -->
00:23:33.839Um, and so that's one of the reasons why Kennedy fought back and said that basically this is this is a political stunt that you're doing because why aren't you giving us the information?
00:23:34.240 -->
00:23:45.359So, anyway, this went back and forth, and it prompted me to actually start looking at, well, what information do we have on measles?
00:23:46.480 -->
00:23:48.880And like how deadly is this?
00:23:49.039 -->
00:23:50.559You know, as a as a mom.
00:23:50.880 -->
00:24:00.720All right, wait, but before you go there, um were both of these so one infant was how old were these?
00:24:00.880 -->
00:24:18.319I mean, the one if if it was it was if it was in delivery, it was an injury in delivery, that baby was that you an infinite, an infinite, an infant can be anything from you know a day old to six months old.
00:24:18.480 -->
00:24:24.799I mean, I'm I'm not a I'm not a pediatrician, but I would call a six month old an infant.
00:24:25.039 -->
00:24:27.759Um so how old were these?
00:24:27.839 -->
00:24:34.720Was one just literally hours old and the other one a day, or how old were they?
00:24:35.279 -->
00:24:41.279Okay, so the one case that involved a ruptured spleen, it was a a newborn.
00:24:42.079 -->
00:24:42.960That's what they're saying.
00:24:43.119 -->
00:24:43.920A newborn.
00:24:44.160 -->
00:24:44.480Okay.
00:24:44.960 -->
00:24:47.039The other one was six weeks old.
00:24:47.440 -->
00:24:50.240Six weeks old baby girl from the Amish community.
00:24:50.559 -->
00:24:54.880All right, died from a respiratory died from a measles-induced respiratory illness.
00:24:55.359 -->
00:24:58.720Were both of them were both of them Amish children?
00:24:59.680 -->
00:25:00.640I believe so.
00:25:00.880 -->
00:25:01.599Let me see.
00:25:03.680 -->
00:25:05.599I'm I'm I'm going somewhere with this.
00:25:05.759 -->
00:25:15.839Just um I I I think from from what I've read or heard, they were both Amish children.
00:25:16.079 -->
00:25:16.400Yeah.
00:25:16.960 -->
00:25:21.680They were both Amish in uh Lancaster.
00:25:22.079 -->
00:25:22.480Yeah.
00:25:22.640 -->
00:25:29.359And and uh and that started a bit of a uh what would be the word?
00:25:29.440 -->
00:25:48.000Uh a bit of a push is too gentle, but uh a kind of um a coup in the Amish community uh from Governor Shapiro to get Amish kids vaccinated and to you know to to to kind of single out the Amish community as a problem.
00:25:48.559 -->
00:25:49.200Exactly.
00:25:49.359 -->
00:25:56.799And and so they've done some things that have been called out by some alternative media.
00:25:57.039 -->
00:26:06.480So one of the questions that I had was why did he hold a big press conference on this, you know, like and and and okay.
00:26:06.559 -->
00:26:08.160I've got I've got a theory for you.
00:26:08.400 -->
00:26:09.200Okay, go ahead.
00:26:09.440 -->
00:26:19.440I haven't read I haven't read this anywhere, but I am extremely friendly with the Amish communities around the country and the biggest ones in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
00:26:19.519 -->
00:26:20.799That's the biggest one.
00:26:21.359 -->
00:26:30.960And in the last election is the first time that thousands of Amish voted.
00:26:31.039 -->
00:26:49.839The Amish are conscientious objectures, they they're uh they're pacifists, so they don't do military, they don't vote, uh, they they take a very strong position that we're not of this world, we're pilgrims passing through, and so we're we're we're disinvolved uh from the world.
00:26:50.000 -->
00:26:52.160And and one of those is that they don't vote.
00:26:52.400 -->
00:27:04.799But in the last election, uh there was a pretty aggressive push in Lancaster to uh register them, to get them to the polls.
00:27:04.960 -->
00:27:07.200Many of them voted for the first time.
00:27:07.920 -->
00:27:18.559And I can tell you um numerous political pundits, we'll just say it that way, have said Trump won Pennsylvania.
00:27:19.119 -->
00:27:22.480It was just enough votes for Trump to win Pennsylvania.
00:27:22.799 -->
00:27:24.640Amish don't vote for Democrats.
00:27:24.799 -->
00:27:28.160I mean, I'll just I'll just I know them well enough.
00:27:28.400 -->
00:27:30.319They don't vote for Democrats.
00:27:30.480 -->
00:27:37.839They're they're vibrantly right to life, they're vibrantly, you know, leave us alone, small government, low taxes.
00:27:38.160 -->
00:27:49.200Um, and so uh they are vibrantly um Republican, even though even though they would never sign up as a Republican, you know, uh they would never join anything.
00:27:49.359 -->
00:28:11.839Um and so there's a there's a lot of resentment in Pennsylvania Democrats of what they consider to be a um an unprecedented involvement in the election that they can kind of count on the Amish as being uh you know a non-starter, they're a non-entity in the election.
00:28:12.000 -->
00:28:14.079Well, suddenly they became an entity.
00:28:14.240 -->
00:28:16.319And so there's a lot of resentment there.
00:28:16.799 -->
00:28:20.240So are you saying it's retaliation for them voting for Trump?
00:28:20.559 -->
00:28:25.119Um I'm saying that that is a possible theory, yes.
00:28:25.599 -->
00:28:29.279Okay, yay, because that was one of my possibilities I wrote down.
00:28:29.759 -->
00:28:34.240Like, so it it could be uh you know, retaliation.
00:28:34.480 -->
00:28:39.920Also, it could be um a land grab.
00:28:40.079 -->
00:28:46.559You know, Katherine Austin Fitz talks about how she thinks a land grab is happening because they want the Amish land.
00:28:46.799 -->
00:28:50.559So, um, and so this might be part of trying to chase them off.
00:28:50.720 -->
00:28:57.519Um, I don't know if you've been following in New York, they may have implemented a similar tactic.
00:28:57.680 -->
00:29:14.400So just to get people up to speed, New York ended um in in 2019 under Governor Cuomo, they basically ended your right to exercise religious exemption from school vaccine requirements.
00:29:14.720 -->
00:29:18.000And they impose fines if you don't comply.
00:29:18.160 -->
00:29:33.279So there's a one-room Amish schoolhouse in upstate New York that is currently facing a combined$118,000 in state fines because they will not comply with that new state law.
00:29:33.359 -->
00:29:37.519Um, basically, they're not giving their children the vaccines.
00:29:37.920 -->
00:29:52.160Now, these are private schools, they don't receive government funding, you know, from what I can find, but the government is charging them a$2,000 civil penalty penalty per violation.
00:29:52.400 -->
00:29:59.359And each day that each unvaccinated student attends school is a separate violation.
00:29:59.920 -->
00:30:05.279So as long as the kids are in school, they're gonna keep running up this bill.
00:30:05.599 -->
00:30:08.720So the Amish families in the school sued the state.
00:30:08.880 -->
00:30:12.799They said that it was an attack on their First Amendment right, you know, religious freedom.
00:30:13.119 -->
00:30:19.119And what happened is the case was actually rejected by the Second U.S.
00:30:19.200 -->
00:30:20.720Circuit Court of Appeals.
00:30:20.960 -->
00:30:25.920The lawyers, the their lawyers petitioned the Supreme Court in July of 2025.
00:30:26.319 -->
00:30:30.240In December, the Supreme Court sent the case back to the Second U.S.
00:30:30.400 -->
00:30:35.039Circuit Court of Appeals and ordered the court to reconsider the case.
00:30:35.519 -->
00:30:43.039In July of this year, the that circuit court again ruled against the Amish family.
00:30:43.599 -->
00:30:49.119And just last month in August, attorneys for the Amish announced they're gonna petition the U.S.
00:30:49.200 -->
00:30:54.720Supreme Court again to take up this court, uh, this case, they're gonna file it in September.
00:30:55.119 -->
00:30:56.880Now, here's the thing, Joel.
00:30:58.400 -->
00:31:28.000If the Supreme Court takes up the case and they they um you know rule against them or they decline this, you know, second petition and New York continues to enforce fines, their attorney, which happens to be Aaron Seary, says that it could result in the government uh confiscating the Amish land in order to be able to pay the debts.
00:31:29.680 -->
00:31:49.200So just think about the you know, um when I was in college in the late 1970s, the Ohio Supreme Court, and this didn't go to the U.S.
00:31:49.279 -->
00:31:57.119Supreme Court, but the Amish were in the Ohio's went to the Ohio Supreme Court who ruled in their favor.
00:31:59.920 -->
00:32:06.880Um a lot of people don't realize that pre-1960s the Amish kids went to public schools.
00:32:07.200 -->
00:32:08.319Oh, I didn't know that.
00:32:08.559 -->
00:32:13.920Yes, the Amish kids went to public schools all up until the late 1960s.
00:32:14.160 -->
00:32:25.279Late about 19 late 1960s, 1970, the Amish were so were so fed up with the public schools that they started doing their own schools.
00:32:25.599 -->
00:32:28.000That's when the Amish schools started.
00:32:29.200 -->
00:32:43.839And and um so Ohio Department of Public Education took the Amish schools to court um for tru for truancy.
00:32:43.920 -->
00:32:48.160That that that that these were not real schools.
00:32:49.519 -->
00:32:55.519And and so they were, you know, you're you're not letting your kids go to school, you know, truancy violations.
00:32:55.839 -->
00:33:26.640It went all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court, and um this was on when I was on the debate team in college, and so we were following this very closely, and because I was at a private college, and um and the Amish won, and at that time the Ohio Supreme Court created the um the uh the criteria differentiating a belief, a religious belief, a conviction, from a preference.
00:33:26.960 -->
00:33:35.279Oh and and they said the First Amendment does not protect preference, it only protects conviction.
00:33:36.480 -->
00:33:47.920And they created a a checklist of if if your belief is uh moves to a place of a religious conviction versus just a preference.
00:33:48.400 -->
00:34:06.559Some of the some of the rules that might be interesting to you, um, I well, I can't remember them all, but one is uh you have a true conviction if if you don't require if if believing it and standing for it does not require anybody else to stand with you.
00:34:08.559 -->
00:34:10.239All right, that's one.
00:34:11.920 -->
00:34:36.559Um because in the courtroom, as you can imagine, the Amish, they they of course, you know, they they use the Bible a lot, and uh and they invoked they said they they they pointed across there was a public school across the street actually from the courtroom in the final court hearing.
00:34:36.960 -->
00:34:40.480And they they said that school there, that's a Philistine school.
00:34:40.719 -->
00:34:42.079That's the Philistines.
00:34:43.039 -->
00:34:45.760And we have a school too.
00:34:46.800 -->
00:34:55.199And um and they're both schools, but one is one is biblical and one is Philistine.
00:34:55.760 -->
00:34:57.760And and uh that's the way they separate.
00:34:58.159 -->
00:35:09.679Another criteria was that um that no no um coercion can make you change your mind.
00:35:12.400 -->
00:35:19.039Um in other words, no threat, no coercion, no incentive.
00:35:19.360 -->
00:35:22.000There's nothing that can make you change your mind.
00:35:22.159 -->
00:35:29.440So these were and and and my understanding is that these are still, they were landmark, that was a landmark case.
00:35:29.679 -->
00:35:34.079Um it was uh Ohio versus Levi Wisner.
00:35:34.320 -->
00:35:35.760That's how much I remember that.
00:35:35.920 -->
00:35:39.599Um Levi Wisner was the Amish, was was the Amish guy.
00:35:39.840 -->
00:35:42.400And um, and and he prevailed.
00:35:42.639 -->
00:35:51.760And and my understanding is that those, you know, like four uh stipulations are still used today to defend religious liberty.
00:35:52.000 -->
00:35:55.360Oh wow in in American in American courts.
00:35:55.599 -->
00:35:57.679So it's fascinating to me.
00:35:57.840 -->
00:36:12.960Here's what's really fascinating to me is that at that time the the Amish won basically saying our school is our church, they're not two different entities.
00:36:14.320 -->
00:36:21.360Our church is our school, our school is our church, and they won on religious liberty.
00:36:21.679 -->
00:36:30.800Today in New York, we're back with the Amish, and the state is saying the same thing.
00:36:31.039 -->
00:36:40.480You're a school, not it's this, it's the same argument, but not from a curriculum, it's from a it's from a health mandate.
00:36:41.119 -->
00:36:45.440So it's it's the same issue, it's the same issue, the same people.
00:36:46.159 -->
00:37:03.280One one was a one was a truancy, your your right, your right to not go to a public school, and now it's your right to not go to any school that the government deems fits a school definition of a school.
00:37:05.360 -->
00:37:19.519Yeah, so it almost seems like so they won the case that the church is the school, and now there's like, oh, well, now that you're a school, you have to now abide by our rules and they have to be vaccinated.
00:37:20.159 -->
00:37:32.400So we're we're seeing this pr progression, we're seeing this legal thinking progression, um, which is which is far worse now, the the the way they're interpreting this in New York.
00:37:32.719 -->
00:37:35.599Uh what they're saying is here's the definition of a school.
00:37:35.679 -->
00:37:40.159You know, teacher, students, building, I mean you know, I don't know, whatever, whatever their criteria is.
00:37:40.239 -->
00:37:41.440And this is a school.
00:37:41.599 -->
00:37:46.159And in order to go to a school, um, you know, you have to be vaccinated.
00:37:46.320 -->
00:37:50.239And uh it's a and so so here we are back in New York.
00:37:50.559 -->
00:37:56.000I think, I think they're gonna have to argue again, this is not a school, it's a church.
00:37:56.719 -->
00:37:57.119Yeah.
00:37:57.360 -->
00:38:03.280They're gonna be back to the same argument that they won in Ohio back in the mid-1970s.
00:38:03.679 -->
00:38:04.159Yeah.
00:38:04.480 -->
00:38:12.159And, you know, I was thinking about this case, and I thought, so why should the typical American care?
00:38:12.559 -->
00:38:12.800Right?
00:38:12.960 -->
00:38:14.000We're not Amish.
00:38:14.400 -->
00:38:14.639Right.
00:38:14.960 -->
00:38:19.119But if they can get to the Amish, right?
00:38:19.280 -->
00:38:31.760If they can force the Amish to say, oh, well, you don't get religious exemption for vaccination, I feel like all the dominoes fall.
00:38:32.159 -->
00:38:32.719Absolutely.
00:38:32.880 -->
00:38:40.719Uh any any private school of any stripe of anything is going is going to be uh put in the same in the same uh box.
00:38:41.039 -->
00:38:45.039Yeah, because the Amish are kind of like that last, that last stronghold.
00:38:45.360 -->
00:38:45.519Right.
00:38:45.599 -->
00:38:49.920Well, the like if if anybody has a religious conviction, it'll be them.
00:38:50.000 -->
00:39:00.800And so I was gonna um read this to you to see what you think because uh one of the Amish fathers, Joseph Miller, he's the lead plaintiff in this New York school um fines case.
00:39:01.039 -->
00:39:03.599He submitted a statement, a written statement to the U.S.
00:39:03.679 -->
00:39:04.719Supreme Court.
00:39:05.039 -->
00:39:07.440Uh, and this was uh last year.
00:39:08.239 -->
00:39:11.599And I'm when I I'm gonna read this to you, Joel.
00:39:11.679 -->
00:39:16.880And as I'm reading this, think of when was the last time you had this much conviction?
00:39:17.280 -->
00:39:18.960You know, like this was moving to me.
00:39:19.039 -->
00:39:31.119He said, our forefathers came to America for freedom of religion and concerns of living a God-fearing life and bringing up our children in a way to hope through salvation and everlasting life in eternity.
00:39:31.280 -->
00:39:35.280To do this, we need to put our full trust in the Almighty, Almighty God.
00:39:35.519 -->
00:39:44.639Yes, our Almighty, Almighty God wants us to fully put our faith and trust in Him, which is in conflict to put our trust in vaccines.
00:39:44.800 -->
00:39:47.840We are commanded to not be conform to this world.
00:39:48.000 -->
00:39:58.400And since some of the vaccines are based on fetal or aborted cell lines, we believe it would be an abomination to our creator to inject such into our bodies.
00:40:00.000 -->
00:40:10.239Then um, the the next one, Ezra Wingard, the Amish elder, he was elected by the community to represent the New York Amish schools in dealing with the state.
00:40:10.400 -->
00:40:11.599Check this out, Joel.
00:40:11.760 -->
00:40:20.239He said the Amish will choose prison time or a martyr's death before going against their convictions.
00:40:20.480 -->
00:40:21.519Yep, yep.
00:40:21.760 -->
00:40:28.800And he says it's our utmost desire is to live a quiet, peaceful, undisturbed life and obey those in authority over us.
00:40:28.960 -->
00:40:35.920But once those laws are in conflict with what the Bible teaches, then we are commanded to obey God rather than man.
00:40:36.239 -->
00:40:36.960Yep, yep.
00:40:37.119 -->
00:40:38.639I mean, it takes my breath away.
00:40:38.960 -->
00:40:40.400That's that's straight out of that.
00:40:40.559 -->
00:41:04.079That's what Peter, that's what Saint Peter told, you know, the um the Roman guards when they came to tell him, you know, to quit uh Acts, uh John, the the the original apostles, um that we will um nobody nobody can tell us not to preach in in this name, the name of Jesus.
00:41:04.880 -->
00:41:05.519I mean, just yeah.
00:41:06.239 -->
00:41:06.960I mean, that's straight.
00:41:07.039 -->
00:41:10.960He's he's quoting straight out of the straight out of uh Acts, the early church stuff.
00:41:11.119 -->
00:41:13.199And we talk yeah, yeah.
00:41:13.599 -->
00:41:16.719Talk about conviction conviction versus preference.
00:41:16.880 -->
00:41:18.719Yeah, that screams conviction to me.
00:41:18.800 -->
00:41:20.480I wish we could all be so convicted.
00:41:20.960 -->
00:41:21.440Absolutely.
00:41:21.519 -->
00:41:21.920Yeah, yeah.
00:41:22.159 -->
00:41:26.960That's um okay, so here's how New York State responded.
00:41:27.280 -->
00:41:35.199So there's a senator on record of j who just who's trying to justify the 2019 repeal of religious exemption.
00:41:35.280 -->
00:41:36.239This is what he said.
00:41:36.480 -->
00:41:41.119The matter of fact is that religious exemption in New York State is made up.
00:41:41.519 -->
00:41:45.760It's fake because there is no religion that objects to vaccines.
00:41:46.000 -->
00:41:49.599Not Islam, not Catholicism, not um Judaism.
00:41:51.039 -->
00:42:01.039There and an assembly amend went on record that says there's nothing, nothing in the Jewish religion, the Christian religion, the Muslim religion that suggests that you can't get vaccinated.
00:42:01.199 -->
00:42:03.360It is just utter garbage.
00:42:05.360 -->
00:42:07.039So literally that's how they think of it.
00:42:07.119 -->
00:42:10.960I'm like, oh my goodness, that that's what the Amish are up against there.
00:42:11.119 -->
00:42:22.400Um and I will tell you, interestingly, so I think this is like I'm saying, this is all kind of coming to a head, not only globally, but you know, here in America.
00:42:22.719 -->
00:42:42.159So you have you have that case coming, you have um you have Kennedy on X on August 25th, the same day that the Pennsylvania governor came out with that press release claiming those two people, you know, unvaccinated people died for um uh you know, measle associated.
00:42:42.239 -->
00:42:45.280You had Kennedy posting a video on X.
00:42:45.519 -->
00:42:47.840It was a deposition of Stanley Plotken.
00:42:48.079 -->
00:42:50.320He was the inventor of the MMR vaccine.
00:42:50.639 -->
00:43:04.480This video is where Plotten Plotkin admits to using 76 aborted babies in studies that led to the to the development of the MMR vaccine.
00:43:05.760 -->
00:43:12.159All of those 76 aborted babies were apparently over three months old and normally developing.
00:43:13.599 -->
00:43:19.519So you've got Kennedy posting that on X, which verifies, you know, validates what the Amish are saying.
00:43:19.679 -->
00:43:21.599This is against their religious belief.
00:43:21.840 -->
00:43:31.280And it's kind of it's kind of trying to poke a hole in this belief of this vaccine narrative that's been created in our culture.
00:43:31.679 -->
00:43:38.079Um I I think there's a lot of politics happening behind the scenes, as we've talked about.
00:43:39.280 -->
00:43:47.760And I think also um there's a there's a poll that came out that said that the vaccine issue is dividing Republicans.
00:43:48.960 -->
00:44:04.400So the midterms were coming up, and if that poll is true, and you know, if Trump and the Republicans got a hold of that poll, then They may be trying to shift the perception, right?
00:44:04.639 -->
00:44:07.440Trying to grab some of these voters.
00:44:08.000 -->
00:44:26.800And because why else would all of a sudden Kennedy be allowed to post this video talking about aborted babies in the MMR vax, which is the same MM, it's the same vaccination that the governor is trying to get the Amish to take right now.
00:44:32.880 -->
00:44:33.440Yes.
00:44:33.599 -->
00:44:40.960And so aborted using aborted babies is a Republican issue, right?
00:44:41.280 -->
00:44:45.760So would a so by the New York definition, would a homeschool be a school?
00:44:47.119 -->
00:44:53.360Well, I don't know what the New York definition of school is, but probably, I mean, I think they just took it all out, right?
00:44:53.519 -->
00:45:01.440That you can't have you can no longer have a religious exemption from the I mean, that's a really good question.
00:45:01.599 -->
00:45:05.599I don't know if it's from schools in general, like all schools.
00:45:05.760 -->
00:45:06.559I don't know.
00:45:06.800 -->
00:45:10.320Um I mean here, I can look at the.
00:45:19.440 -->
00:45:26.719Weak argumentation um by saying the word vaccine is not in the Bible.
00:45:27.039 -->
00:45:31.440Um because that that's called that's called arguing from the silence.
00:45:33.360 -->
00:45:37.519And there are lots of things that aren't in the Bible.
00:45:38.400 -->
00:45:55.519There, you know, there's no computers, there's no Coca-Cola, there's no um, there's no automobiles, um, no McDonald's, no Happy Meals, um, no um the word the word pornography is not in the Bible.
00:45:55.760 -->
00:46:05.119Um there's you you can't you can't argue from the silence of a historic document.
00:46:05.599 -->
00:46:09.280That's that's simply not um not an argument that holds water.
00:46:09.440 -->
00:46:29.679And so for him to invoke just because it doesn't say something means that um that the the principles surrounding this don't have um religious ramifications or biblical ramifications.
00:46:30.719 -->
00:46:39.840Um I mean look is is um it's a it's a pretty vacuous it's a pretty vacuous argument.
00:46:40.159 -->
00:46:40.719Yeah.
00:46:40.960 -->
00:46:47.039So I looked it up you you can still homeschool in New York and not vaccinate, okay?
00:46:47.440 -->
00:46:47.920Oh, okay.
00:46:48.239 -->
00:46:50.079Yeah, if you're strictly homeschooled.
00:46:51.039 -->
00:47:05.280Um but yes, so to your point, so it could be retaliation against you know the Amish uh for their vote, uh for the Republican vote.
00:47:05.519 -->
00:47:15.280Um, if you follow that land grab uh theory, then there's a clear path where the state can get their land, right?
00:47:15.440 -->
00:47:18.079Suing them for fines in New York, that can happen.
00:47:18.159 -->
00:47:24.960And actually 25,000 Amish in New York are discussing leaving the state right now over vaccines.
00:47:25.280 -->
00:47:39.599And you know, Joel, if they leave the state, it's a win-win for New York because not only do they get the I'm assuming they could get the land because right, they have to pay the debt, but also the those Republican votes leave.
00:47:40.159 -->
00:47:40.400Yeah.
00:47:40.639 -->
00:47:50.480Well, the the land, the land would simply be, it would, it would just simply go on the market and be able to be purchased by you know whoever wants to purchase it.
00:47:50.719 -->
00:47:54.079So I I don't think that land would go to the state.
00:47:54.800 -->
00:48:03.280Um it would it would it would stay in the private sector, but the um but the but it would not be owned by the Amish.
00:48:04.079 -->
00:48:04.960Yeah, well, I don't know.
00:48:05.039 -->
00:48:10.639Aaron Siri is saying that it can result in confiscation of the land to pay the debts.
00:48:11.519 -->
00:48:25.519So well hundred and eighty-six thousand dollars, believe me, believe me, huh, um the Amish are not gonna let the money determine what they do.
00:48:25.840 -->
00:48:26.639Oh, yeah.
00:48:26.960 -->
00:48:36.880So if if if if uh for$186,000, they'll just pass a hat, pick up an offering, and pay it.
00:48:38.239 -->
00:48:42.320So so I I I don't see it as a confiscation of land.
00:48:42.480 -->
00:48:49.840I mean, I I see it as a as a I mean as chasing them off.
00:48:49.920 -->
00:48:54.960I I get that, but I don't see it as a state confiscating their land.
00:48:55.199 -->
00:49:03.039I see it as a situation that becomes so untenable that a group of people leaves leaves an area.
00:49:03.199 -->
00:49:03.519Yeah.
00:49:03.760 -->
00:49:12.239And and and um because trust me, the the Amish are not gonna let this build up to a million and then two million and three million, it ain't gonna happen.
00:49:13.119 -->
00:49:13.920Ain't gonna happen.
00:49:14.559 -->
00:49:20.480Yeah, I think it's more of a um, well, okay, so there's a couple ideas that I had as well.
00:49:20.639 -->
00:49:24.239So one is running them off, like you're saying.
00:49:24.480 -->
00:49:32.559Um the other is it could be, I mean, and obviously I think it's more than one thing.
00:49:32.639 -->
00:49:43.440It's not just you know one strategy, but they could be trying to remove the quote unquote control group in this vaccine experiment that's going on um in the world.
00:49:43.920 -->
00:49:56.800So, you know, so now interestingly, so the Amish are thought of as kind of this last stronghold in or the last control group in the vaccine debate because most people think that they're not vaccinated.
00:49:57.119 -->
00:49:57.440Right.
00:49:57.920 -->
00:50:00.800So uh that's not entirely true.
00:50:01.360 -->
00:50:06.239So, as you said, Lancaster County is the home of the largest Amish settlement in the country.
00:50:06.559 -->
00:50:25.440And according to uh the Pennsylvania state and local officials, they're saying that the community, the Amish community in Lancaster County, has 25% of the Amish vaccinated against MMR.
00:50:26.800 -->
00:50:32.639So the government itself is saying 25% of them, a quarter of them are already vaccinated against MMR.
00:50:33.119 -->
00:50:39.440Now, what they've done is they're putting in these MMR pop-up clinics across the state.
00:50:39.679 -->
00:50:41.440They started that in April.
00:50:41.679 -->
00:50:44.239They have 91 of them up.
00:50:44.480 -->
00:50:48.159There's 40 more of these pop-up clinics planned.
00:50:48.559 -->
00:50:59.679And one of their statistics says that they've already administered over 4,000 MMR doses to the Amish at these clinics.
00:50:59.840 -->
00:51:03.519So they're popping up these clinics in the Amish community, right?
00:51:03.679 -->
00:51:05.760They're bringing the vaccine to them.
00:51:05.920 -->
00:51:13.280Um, I also turn uh said I also read that they're doing in-home immunization services.
00:51:13.440 -->
00:51:21.679So that, you know, door-to-door, they have buggy clinics, they're doing pop-up vaccination booths at MUD sales, which are their community auctions.
00:51:21.840 -->
00:51:24.559They're doing visits to the Amish schoolhouses.
00:51:24.719 -->
00:51:33.440And this is all actually documented in their state's technical um like their strategy that that it's it's all listed there in the strategy.
00:51:33.760 -->
00:51:38.800You know, you know what's amazing is how fast the government can move when they really get behind something.
00:51:39.039 -->
00:51:39.519Oh yeah.
00:51:39.599 -->
00:51:42.159When they're motivated, like Man, oh man.
00:51:42.320 -->
00:51:49.280I mean, think about the the logistics, the people to hire, the pop-up, the the infrastructure, the walls.
00:51:49.519 -->
00:51:51.280I mean, man, oh man.
00:51:51.360 -->
00:51:55.599Uh if they if they really want to do something, they can they can do it.
00:51:56.000 -->
00:51:57.039They can make it happen.
00:51:57.199 -->
00:51:57.679Yep.
00:51:57.840 -->
00:51:59.039And yep, fast.
00:51:59.360 -->
00:52:06.719Um, okay, so if that's true that they're trying to remove the control group, we know that they have these pop-up clinics.
00:52:06.880 -->
00:52:20.079We we know that they're pressuring the Amish to get vaccinated by singling them out in you know in the media, in these press releases.
00:52:20.320 -->
00:52:29.599Uh, and actually, in uh there was a there was another measles outbreak in 2014.
00:52:31.119 -->
00:52:40.559In that measles outbreak, I was in Ohio and in that measles outbreak, it was reported that 8,000 Amish got vaccinated.
00:52:41.199 -->
00:52:42.159So 8,000.
00:52:42.239 -->
00:52:45.440So they they accepted the mass vaccination.
00:52:45.920 -->
00:52:52.639And the reason, according to this scientific article, is the public shame.
00:52:53.360 -->
00:53:04.400So the media singled them out, yeah, and there's public shame around being singled out, and that they caused the public health crisis, and that increased their compliance.
00:53:04.639 -->
00:53:04.800Right.
00:53:05.119 -->
00:53:07.760So this may be a repeat of that.
00:53:07.920 -->
00:53:11.119Single them out, cause the shame, you know, and they'll do it.
00:53:11.440 -->
00:53:20.079Um the what's also interesting is this is making the rounds in more of alternative news.
00:53:20.320 -->
00:53:24.559Around the Amish community, some chemicals are being sprayed.
00:53:24.719 -->
00:53:32.079And they're saying that, oh, this is just standard, we're spraying against West Nile and we're spraying against mosquitoes.
00:53:33.360 -->
00:53:40.559But one of the chemicals that's being sprayed is thought to result in measles-like symptoms.
00:53:42.000 -->
00:53:53.360And one of the other sprays contains synthetic pyrethroids, and those have been associated with autism in a UC Davis study.
00:53:54.239 -->
00:53:55.760So coincidence?
00:53:55.920 -->
00:54:08.239Is it coincidence that they're spraying a chemical that can make you appear to have measles symptoms and could also uh make you, you know, have autism, or is this intentional?
00:54:08.320 -->
00:54:11.519Like I I have no idea, but it's interesting.
00:54:11.840 -->
00:54:16.960Oh, that's uh that's almost as sinister as saying uh George Bush brought down the Twin Towers.
00:54:17.280 -->
00:54:18.639Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
00:54:18.719 -->
00:54:19.519Like, I don't know.
00:54:19.679 -->
00:54:21.599Like they're saying this is just routine stuff.
00:54:21.679 -->
00:54:38.320And in either way, though, whether it's intentional or whether it's coincidence, why are we spraying chemicals into the air into these communities that could cause that are known to actually cause autism, you know, um, and can mimic measles.
00:54:38.480 -->
00:54:39.679This this seems like a bad idea.
00:54:39.760 -->
00:54:41.840Like one of the chemicals is a neurotoxin.
00:54:42.000 -->
00:54:43.760This just seems like a bad idea.
00:54:44.000 -->
00:54:49.840So, whatever the intention is, I'm glad that this is starting to come to light so people are aware of what's happening.
00:54:50.000 -->
00:54:52.719Again, it's all about informed consent, you know?
00:54:52.960 -->
00:54:53.280Right.
00:54:53.519 -->
00:55:10.000Um, so oh, and the reason why that connection to autism is important is because they're giving them, they're trying to get the Amish to comply with getting the the Measles Mumps Rebella MMR vaccine.
00:55:10.239 -->
00:55:17.679This has been a hotly debated topic for a long time is whether or not the MMR vaccine causes autism, right?
00:55:17.840 -->
00:55:20.480The government is adamant that it doesn't.
00:55:20.800 -->
00:55:31.119And this is where you have um Andrew Wakefield, who was um he's a researcher.
00:55:32.079 -->
00:55:37.199And I most people probably know this story, so I won't belabor it, but this was back in '98.
00:55:37.599 -->
00:55:48.559He published a case series in a Lancet um scientific journal where he reported regressive autism um being associated with inflammation of the colon.
00:55:48.800 -->
00:55:53.119And this was in children who were vaccinated with the MMR vaccine.
00:55:53.360 -->
00:55:53.679Okay.
00:55:54.639 -->
00:56:00.639And 12 years later, the study was actually retracted.
00:56:01.360 -->
00:56:05.119This is the time when he was about to publish the second study.
00:56:05.280 -->
00:56:17.920And this second study revealed that there's abnormal neurological development in male monkeys after they got one dose of a thimerosol-containing HEP B vaccine at birth, so mercury-containing vaccine.
00:56:18.239 -->
00:56:21.599That second publication, the manuscript was accepted.
00:56:21.679 -->
00:56:27.039It was published electronically, and then it was removed without any explanation.
00:56:27.360 -->
00:56:33.360Interestingly, it was printed in a different journal without his name on it.
00:56:34.239 -->
00:56:43.360So if people don't know, like Wakefield was um he was basically dragged over the coals, right?
00:56:43.440 -->
00:56:47.039He was discredited, they took his license away.
00:56:47.199 -->
00:56:49.360Uh, it it was really bad.
00:56:49.599 -->
00:56:52.239And um, he was said to be a fraud.
00:56:53.360 -->
00:57:11.039And now what's happened is that there's actually been uh people saying that maybe Wakefield is vindicated because uh Paul, oh, what's his name?
00:57:11.519 -->
00:57:12.559Paul Thorsen?
00:57:12.880 -->
00:57:13.519Yes.
00:57:13.920 -->
00:57:26.480So uh Paul Thorsen was uh he actually just uh pleaded guilty of um oh I just lost my notes.
00:57:26.639 -->
00:57:28.400Uh do you know that story?
00:57:28.960 -->
00:57:36.559Well I yeah, he pleaded guilty to um what was it, falsifying data or something?
00:57:36.960 -->
00:58:00.480Okay, it's so he didn't plead guilty to falsifying data, but what happened was so he was actually a former CDC Center for Control Disease Prevention Scientist, and he played a really critical role in building up research that was debunking any link between vaccines and autism.
00:58:00.719 -->
00:58:01.039Okay.
00:58:01.519 -->
00:58:08.079And his research was used in part to debunk Andrew Wakefield's research, right?
00:58:08.239 -->
00:58:12.079And and to basically pile on that Wakefield lied.
00:58:12.159 -->
00:58:15.199Like they accused Wakefield of falsifying all this data.
00:58:15.519 -->
00:58:24.480So the CDC guy uh was pled guilty to wire fraud and money laundering.
00:58:25.920 -->
00:58:30.960He he faces two counts of wire fraud, nine counts of money laundering.
00:58:32.000 -->
00:58:48.719Basically, he allegedly took about a million dollars in CDC grant money, and he used that grant money to buy a home, two cars, and a motorcycle when the funds were really earmarked for autism and public health research, but he pocketed it.
00:58:49.760 -->
00:59:13.679So the irony here, right, the guy who helped create this pile of studies saying there's no link between autism and like MMR vaccine, for example, yeah, and said that Wakefield lied and falsified data is the guy that now has pleaded guilty to these other crimes.
00:59:13.840 -->
00:59:21.760And so now they're thinking, okay, people have said for years, oh, um, he manipulated the data, Thorsend did, Paul Thorsen.
00:59:22.480 -->
00:59:25.199Um, but like, where's the proof, right?
00:59:25.440 -->
00:59:30.880So they're hoping that somehow the proof, the truth is gonna come out here.
00:59:31.199 -->
00:59:34.880And um because that's the obvious question next, right?
00:59:34.960 -->
00:59:40.400Like if he was willing to pocket a million dollars that was earmarked for autism research, did he cheat on the data?
00:59:40.559 -->
00:59:43.920I mean, how did they have the money to fund these studies if he took it?
00:59:44.159 -->
00:59:46.400So uh we we don't know that, right?
00:59:46.480 -->
00:59:55.840This is speculation at this point, but um we do know that other people should be called into investigation as well.
00:59:56.000 -->
01:00:02.079So, for example, Thorson's direct grant supervisor was Dr.
01:00:02.320 -->
01:00:04.239Diana Um Shendel.
01:00:05.039 -->
01:00:10.960And apparently they were um intimate with each other.
01:00:11.440 -->
01:00:17.440And she approved all of his invoices for the expenditures from the CDC grant money.
01:00:17.760 -->
01:00:20.079So, did she know what was going on?
01:00:20.239 -->
01:00:22.000Like, was she part of this?
01:00:22.320 -->
01:00:26.239Um, I mean, they did have that romantic relationship.
01:00:26.480 -->
01:00:36.639Um and she actually later accepted a position at Denmark's um RS University, leading autism research over there.
01:00:38.719 -->
01:00:41.760So Thorson Thorsen is not American.
01:00:41.920 -->
01:00:44.000He's uh Norwegian, I think, right?
01:00:44.159 -->
01:00:45.119Or Swedish.
01:00:45.599 -->
01:00:46.960He's Scandinavian.
01:00:47.280 -->
01:00:59.360And they they nabbed him, they nabbed him in uh Germany or Austria, Austria or something when he was traveling, and um they that that's how they got him back to the US to face charges.
01:00:59.679 -->
01:01:05.519Wow, it's all uh it's all a pretty um uh seamy affair, isn't it?
01:01:05.840 -->
01:01:07.119It is okay.
01:01:07.440 -->
01:01:17.119So um that also just hit the newsstands with you know, so it leads more credence to Wakefield's data.
01:01:17.199 -->
01:01:22.880And actually, I will say, I started looking into the literature because I'm wondering, well, who who's right here?
01:01:23.360 -->
01:01:29.599And did they really just bury Wakefield because you know, Big Pharma got to them, for example?
01:01:30.239 -->
01:01:46.239And I found that in 2006 there was a um vaccine strain of measles reported in the bowel lesions of autistic children.
01:01:46.559 -->
01:01:54.559And now this was preliminary of a preliminary report, and that that research work was stalled due to lack of funding, right?
01:01:54.639 -->
01:01:55.920Because who's gonna fund that?
01:01:56.239 -->
01:02:03.840You find uh a strain of measles that was caused by a vaccine in the bowel lesions of an autistic child.
01:02:04.000 -->
01:02:05.679Who's gonna fund that work, right?
01:02:06.239 -->
01:02:24.159Uh there's another study by a Japanese group, and they were able to publish their data, and their data revealed that um RNA from uh like measles, so you know, measles will have its own genome.
01:02:24.320 -->
01:02:41.760So that RNA from measles was found in the white blood cells of um three patients with ulcerative colitis and nine autistic children who also had the intestinal issues that Wakefield had identified in his research.
01:02:41.920 -->
01:02:43.360Well, get this, Joel.
01:02:43.679 -->
01:02:52.880The sequence, the RNA sequence of the measles that they had were consistent with the vaccine, the vaccine strains.
01:02:55.039 -->
01:03:14.559So, meaning vaccine strain measles virus was found in these patients, meaning that there the research is starting to make a connection and has been making a connection between getting the vaccine and getting not only autism joel, but ulcerative colitis.
01:03:14.719 -->
01:03:19.519And they also found the vaccine strain in children with um autoimmune hepatitis.
01:03:19.920 -->
01:03:30.719And some of these researchers are reporting that that vaccine strain can be in the body for many years after the person got vaccinated.
01:03:31.280 -->
01:03:33.920So uh, I mean, that was a new finding too.
01:03:34.079 -->
01:03:37.840Like you, your body basically, it's a live attenuated virus.
01:03:37.920 -->
01:03:41.360So your body basically replicates it at some low level.
01:03:41.599 -->
01:03:41.840Yeah.
01:03:42.000 -->
01:03:44.400Um, but anyway, that's a new one that came out.
01:03:44.559 -->
01:03:44.880Yeah.
01:03:45.039 -->
01:04:00.800Um, but here's the other thing I was going to share with you that could be a possible reason why they're targeting the the Amish here is number one, I think the governor of Pennsylvania probably wants to score points with the media and the Democrats.
01:04:01.039 -->
01:04:05.519Um, and right now, because he wants to run for president, right?
01:04:05.760 -->
01:04:15.920So if he is if if he is going against Secretary Kennedy and Trump, then it's probably gonna score him some points, right?
01:04:16.159 -->
01:04:23.599So double downing on uh put you know, gonna double down on the vaccines and the message that the Democrats want to hear.
01:04:23.840 -->
01:04:27.280But the other one, you probably already know this.
01:04:27.920 -->
01:04:30.880But guess where the MMR vaccine is made.
01:04:34.079 -->
01:04:37.440Um I have no idea where it's made.
01:04:37.679 -->
01:04:38.239Uh-huh.
01:04:38.639 -->
01:04:39.199I don't know.
01:04:39.360 -->
01:04:40.480China, I suppose.
01:04:40.719 -->
01:04:43.119I know I that was that would have been my first guess too.
01:04:43.280 -->
01:04:43.599China.
01:04:43.760 -->
01:04:45.440No, it's made in Pennsylvania.
01:04:45.679 -->
01:04:47.280Oh, made in Pennsylvania.
01:04:47.840 -->
01:04:48.079Yes.
01:04:48.800 -->
01:04:49.119Okay.
01:04:49.360 -->
01:04:51.599So it does really just come down to money.
01:04:51.920 -->
01:04:52.639I think so.
01:04:52.800 -->
01:05:02.480It's made in uh Pennsylvania by Merck, and um it is made in their like largest pharmaceutical vaccine manufacturing facility in the U.S.
01:05:02.960 -->
01:05:13.440The governor in 2025 actually boasted that more than one half of all vaccines that are administered in the United States are made in Pennsylvania.
01:05:14.000 -->
01:05:28.000So in Pennsylvania, vaccine production is responsible for 4,700 jobs, and it generates about 4.74 billion dollars for Pennsylvania's economy.
01:05:28.400 -->
01:05:29.920That's a lot of money.
01:05:30.400 -->
01:05:33.840He's got to keep the vaccine manufacturers happy.
01:05:34.079 -->
01:05:35.440I mean, there's this whole long list.
01:05:35.519 -->
01:05:36.480It's not just Merck.
01:05:36.880 -->
01:05:47.199So um Merck actually in July of this year, we found out that they invested nearly$3 billion to expand their campus in Pennsylvania.
01:05:47.440 -->
01:05:50.159Um, so that was in July we found that out.
01:05:50.400 -->
01:05:59.840It was late August that the Pennsylvania Department of Health ramped up their um vaccination campaign with those pop up vaccination clinics ramping up.
01:06:00.400 -->
01:06:00.559Up.
01:06:00.719 -->
01:06:05.840It was August 25th that Shapiro announced the two measles associated deaths.
01:06:06.800 -->
01:06:10.000So, you know, it could be coincidence in timing.
01:06:11.199 -->
01:06:20.320GSK, another uh, you know, vaccine company, is also located, you know, in Pennsylvania.
01:06:20.559 -->
01:06:23.760They've increased their footprint in Lancaster County.
01:06:23.920 -->
01:06:26.639They got$21 million in state subsidies.
01:06:26.880 -->
01:06:32.480Eli Lilly in January of this year got$100 million in Pennsylvania state subsidies.
01:06:32.719 -->
01:06:38.800And so Niffee Pasture just in June got$10.6 million in Pennsylvania grants.
01:06:38.960 -->
01:06:42.400They, by the way, make over 40% 42% of all the U.S.
01:06:42.559 -->
01:06:44.960flu vaccine doses.
01:06:45.440 -->
01:06:50.559So Pennsylvania seems to be in bed with pharmaceutical companies, you know.
01:06:50.719 -->
01:06:54.400So they might have a little bit of a bias there and they do need to keep them happy.
01:06:54.719 -->
01:07:00.719It's got his economy there in Pennsylvania has to do well if he wants to run for president.
01:07:01.119 -->
01:07:05.599So just one more reason that they might want okay.
01:07:05.679 -->
01:07:07.840So Cena, we're almost out of time.
01:07:08.000 -->
01:07:24.559And you told me at the top of the program that you were that this all pushed you into diving into a little bit uh of your uh your mother hen uh uh mother hen protective instinct about protecting your kids from measles, and if they get it, what can you do?
01:07:24.880 -->
01:07:34.400Yes in a couple minutes, can you run by a little bit of protocol that you've um that you've found on that on that end of the problem?
01:07:35.280 -->
01:07:35.760Awesome.
01:07:35.920 -->
01:07:36.719Okay, definitely.
01:07:36.960 -->
01:07:50.239And um I didn't I have like 20 pages of notes here that we didn't get to, but let me tell you like so the bottom line, and if if listeners want, we can go into this more in a later podcast.
01:07:50.480 -->
01:07:54.400But a couple things that I found that helped me to not be afraid.
01:07:54.639 -->
01:08:01.760Um, some of these are remedies, and then some is the overall trajectory of measles history.
01:08:02.000 -->
01:08:06.719Measles used to be really feared, and it did kill a lot of people.
01:08:06.880 -->
01:08:09.360And this was even in the 1800s.
01:08:09.440 -->
01:08:18.159There were measle epidemics that occurred about every two years in the US and in England, and up to about 20% of children died on average.
01:08:18.319 -->
01:08:21.680So it was a very, very big deal, okay.
01:08:22.079 -->
01:08:32.319Um by 1960, the mortality fell in, for example, England and Wales to 0.03%.
01:08:33.680 -->
01:08:38.960So people still got measles, but it was usually mild in the developed world.
01:08:39.199 -->
01:08:52.880Uh in the US by the 60s, by the by 1960, the deaths from measles, the mortality rate was 0.24 per 100,000.
01:08:53.119 -->
01:08:55.359That's 0.00024%.
01:08:56.159 -->
01:08:59.039It was a 98% decrease from the peak.
01:08:59.279 -->
01:08:59.600Okay.
01:08:59.840 -->
01:09:05.039So have I emphasized enough for you how much it declined by 1960?
01:09:05.279 -->
01:09:07.439Like everybody on the same page.
01:09:07.680 -->
01:09:09.439It was pretty much gone.
01:09:09.600 -->
01:09:09.840Okay.
01:09:10.560 -->
01:09:12.000Was that because of the vaccine?
01:09:12.239 -->
01:09:14.000It was not because of the vaccine.
01:09:14.079 -->
01:09:17.119I'm like, oh, this is the biggest misnomer.
01:09:17.359 -->
01:09:21.279So the vaccine wasn't even licensed until 1963.
01:09:22.159 -->
01:09:22.479Okay.
01:09:22.800 -->
01:09:25.520So by 1960, I gave you the stats.
01:09:25.680 -->
01:09:25.840Yeah.
01:09:26.079 -->
01:09:27.760There practically were no deaths.
01:09:27.920 -->
01:09:28.239Okay.
01:09:28.720 -->
01:09:32.960By the time the vaccine was licensed, there were zero deaths in Massachusetts.
01:09:33.119 -->
01:09:36.479The Washington state death rate was 0.3 per 100,000.
01:09:36.560 -->
01:09:38.159That's the 0.003%.
01:09:38.960 -->
01:09:42.399Deaths from asthma, Joel, were 56 times greater.
01:09:42.640 -->
01:09:42.960Okay.
01:09:43.520 -->
01:09:45.199So it wasn't the vaccine.
01:09:45.279 -->
01:09:47.119And then people will say it was antibiotics.
01:09:47.199 -->
01:09:48.319It wasn't the antibiotics.
01:09:48.399 -->
01:09:54.239Penicillin wasn't even mass produced until um 1944.
01:09:55.520 -->
01:10:04.239And by the 1930s, the chance of dying from measles had already dropped to about one to two percent in the US and in England.
01:10:04.560 -->
01:10:08.479Okay, so why did we actually see the drop?
01:10:09.439 -->
01:10:12.960It was in large part because of better nutrition.
01:10:13.199 -->
01:10:17.520It was better hygiene and better nutrition.
01:10:17.840 -->
01:10:20.560So this might kind of surprise people.
01:10:20.800 -->
01:10:24.159One thing that went went out that went out of fashion was breastfeeding, right?
01:10:25.199 -->
01:10:34.079So um in the 1940s, there were about only 25% of infants initiated with with breast milk.
01:10:34.560 -->
01:10:39.920Uh you know, it's gone up 35% in the 70s, and today it's about 75%.
01:10:43.039 -->
01:10:52.560That uh breastfeeding protects children from measles, surprisingly, for some people.
01:10:52.960 -->
01:10:58.880There's the a lower risk of contracting clinical measles after being breastfed.
01:10:59.279 -->
01:11:05.359And uh one study, Joel, shows that that protection can last up to 10 years.
01:11:06.159 -->
01:11:07.920I mean, isn't that incredible?
01:11:08.239 -->
01:11:10.399Just from breastfeeding the baby.
01:11:10.560 -->
01:11:15.039Um, and there's there's some breastfeeding in the 1860s?
01:11:15.279 -->
01:11:15.520Yeah.
01:11:15.760 -->
01:11:18.880Well, this was one I'm saying, this is something you could do now.
01:11:19.199 -->
01:11:24.800So, but we they had they didn't have the same nutrition that that we had today.
01:11:24.960 -->
01:11:26.640So that's one thing that a mother could do now.
01:11:26.960 -->
01:11:27.680Or hygiene.
01:11:27.920 -->
01:11:28.239That's right.
01:11:28.880 -->
01:11:32.159I mean, 1860s, you took a bath once a month, whether you needed it or not.
01:11:32.479 -->
01:11:33.039That's right.
01:11:33.199 -->
01:11:35.680That yes, the hydrant and the nutrition.
01:11:35.920 -->
01:11:44.720Now, um, so the other one is vitamin A.
01:11:45.359 -->
01:12:01.760So these are some of the the the nutrients that can help prevent um you know can getting it and um and help you if you do get it, help you not have um like complications from it.
01:12:01.920 -->
01:12:09.119Vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D, and also vitamins B, zinc, selenium, and protein can help.
01:12:09.359 -->
01:12:13.039But I want to highlight vitamin A, for example.
01:12:13.279 -->
01:12:19.600So vitamin A um helps upregulate the innate immune system.
01:12:20.479 -->
01:12:29.359Uh and it's actually been well known to reduce mortality and you know, other consequences.
01:12:29.520 -->
01:12:31.680So this has been known for a long time, Joel.
01:12:31.840 -->
01:12:37.680In the 1920s, they theorized that vitamin A could be used to fight off disease.
01:12:37.920 -->
01:12:41.439Um, it was actually dubbed an anti-infective vitamin.
01:12:41.920 -->
01:12:52.000In 1932, there's a report that well-nourished children rarely died or had serious complications from measles.
01:12:52.640 -->
01:12:53.039Right?
01:12:53.199 -->
01:12:56.079So they already knew this now in the 1930s.
01:12:56.319 -->
01:13:09.359They already, scientists at that point, found that the mortality of children who are hospitalized with measles would drop by 58% if you gave them cod liver oil.
01:13:10.319 -->
01:13:16.319I mean, Joel, 58% drop in mortality rate just by giving cod liver oil, right?
01:13:16.800 -->
01:13:26.079Um, in the 1990s, in poor countries, so you'll still see more deaths now in poorer countries, right?
01:13:26.239 -->
01:13:30.479The ones that don't have as many nutrients, um, they're more nutrient deficient.
01:13:30.800 -->
01:13:39.279So in 1990, there was mortality rates measured in measles cases.
01:13:39.359 -->
01:13:50.479And what they showed was that even in these poor countries, if you gave vitamin A to patients who are hospitalized with measles, you'd have a 60% reduction in the risk of death.
01:13:50.640 -->
01:13:55.680And in infants, you had a 90% reduction in death.
01:13:56.319 -->
01:13:59.11990% just from giving vitamin A.
01:13:59.279 -->
01:14:01.840So again, I would do it in cod liver oil.
01:14:02.000 -->
01:14:06.960If you don't think that's applicable today, then this might blow your mind.
01:14:07.119 -->
01:14:17.840There was a study out of 1992, um, in 1992, out of California in Long Beach, where they studied 20 children with measles.
01:14:18.319 -->
01:14:22.07950% of them were deficient in vitamin A.
01:14:22.560 -->
01:14:27.279So even here in America, we're having lots of kids show up as deficient in vitamin A.
01:14:27.439 -->
01:14:33.920So one of my strategies is to ensure that my kids are sufficient in vitamin A and start giving them cod liver oil.
01:14:34.079 -->
01:14:36.640The same thing was shown with vitamin C.
01:14:36.960 -->
01:14:41.520You know, during the 1800s, that's when we still had people dying of scurvy, right?
01:14:41.920 -->
01:14:56.960And um, and what they saw even back then is that you could give vitamin C at high doses, and it was effective at reversing it at stopping measles.
01:14:57.039 -->
01:14:59.680So this was even back into the 1940s.
01:15:00.640 -->
01:15:05.520So vitamin C is well documented, um, just like vitamin A.
01:15:05.600 -->
01:15:13.039So there's simple things that you can do actually to protect your children um, you know, from measles.
01:15:13.680 -->
01:15:18.000Um and I will say so.
01:15:20.319 -->
01:15:24.000We could uh like I said, we can unpack this more later if people want.
01:15:24.399 -->
01:15:27.920But there was another study that just came out.
01:15:28.159 -->
01:15:30.880This was in August 14th of this year.
01:15:32.319 -->
01:15:53.439And I think this at least should garner a conversation with people because as soon as we have a measles outbreak, the headline is the same script: unvaccinated child or unvaccinated person sparks an outbreak, and they're it was preventable, and now we have to mandate everybody gets a vaccine, right?
01:15:53.600 -->
01:15:54.560Sound familiar?
01:15:54.800 -->
01:16:04.079Now there's a study on record saying that if you are vaccinated against measles, you can still transmit measles.
01:16:06.079 -->
01:16:19.760It's 70, 70, they looked at um uh so they they looked at a whole slew of people, but 70 out of 890 vaccinated people got measles.
01:16:21.039 -->
01:16:24.159So first of all, you can still get it, you can still get measles.
01:16:24.319 -->
01:16:30.00070 people out of 890 who are vaccinated got measles and they passed it on.
01:16:31.279 -->
01:16:42.000And we know that 7.9% of them, which um about a third of them did get two doses of MMR.
01:16:42.239 -->
01:16:46.079So you're said to be fully vaccinated when you have the two doses, right?
01:16:46.800 -->
01:16:53.039Now, if you look at how many people those 70 people, 70 those 70 people gave measles to, right?
01:16:53.199 -->
01:17:00.159The downstream effect, those 70 vaccinated people infected 812 people.
01:17:01.680 -->
01:17:02.000Right.
01:17:02.399 -->
01:17:07.039And so this is documented in a scientific study.
01:17:07.119 -->
01:17:08.880I'll put the link in the show description.
01:17:09.039 -->
01:17:12.079So number one, you can still get measles even if you've been vaccinated.
01:17:12.239 -->
01:17:14.640Number two, you can transmit it to other people.
01:17:14.880 -->
01:17:18.479But Joel, here's the really interesting part to me.
01:17:19.359 -->
01:17:27.760The authors of this paper were they were so it wasn't a French paper.
01:17:28.079 -->
01:17:31.119Some of the authors of this paper were from the CDC.
01:17:31.359 -->
01:17:45.119So one of them was a 16-year director of the CDC immunization program, one of them was CDC's measle laboratory chief, one of them was from the World Health Organization's current measle program lead, one of them was from Johns Hopkins.
01:17:45.279 -->
01:17:48.880I mean, one of them was a top immunization official.
01:17:49.119 -->
01:17:59.680These are high up people who are standing behind this claim that you can still get measles and you can actually pass it along.
01:18:00.399 -->
01:18:03.600I mean, I see, I got a question.
01:18:03.920 -->
01:18:08.31970 vaxxed people infected 812 people.
01:18:09.439 -->
01:18:12.079Were those 812 people vaccinated?
01:18:12.720 -->
01:18:14.079It it didn't say.
01:18:17.520 -->
01:18:32.079So um the other thing that we don't know is that um were the transmitters carrying the wild type measles, or was this the vaccine strain virus?
01:18:32.720 -->
01:18:36.479It's thought that the vaccine strain virus is not transmissible.
01:18:36.640 -->
01:18:44.479So the person who gets the vaccine can have measles produced in their body, but it's thought that they don't transmit that.
01:18:45.439 -->
01:18:49.920So but this study didn't differentiate between the two types.
01:18:50.159 -->
01:18:52.800So we don't have the answer to that.
01:18:53.439 -->
01:18:58.880But what we do know now on record is that they can transmit.
01:18:59.199 -->
01:19:07.279Um it's a it's it's it's probably gonna be less likely in a vaccinated than an unvaccinated person.
01:19:07.520 -->
01:19:18.079But we also have examples for over 40 years of measles outbreaks that have erupted in populations that have reported a 95% or higher vaccination rate.
01:19:18.399 -->
01:19:24.640So in 1985 in Corpus Christi, uh these are students that had an outbreak.
01:19:24.800 -->
01:19:26.72099% of them were vaccinated.
01:19:26.960 -->
01:19:33.279In Montana in 1985, again, 98%, 98.7% were vaccinated.
01:19:33.439 -->
01:19:37.439There was one in Colorado, Quebec, Brazil, Cape Town.
01:19:37.680 -->
01:19:43.119These were, you know, these were all um, you know, vaccinated populations.
01:19:43.279 -->
01:19:53.039So we do have a long record of measles popping up, quote unquote outbreaks among highly vaccinated populations.
01:19:53.600 -->
01:20:00.159So I did not know that before the mudslinging between Shapiro and Kennedy caused me to do a deep dive.
01:20:00.399 -->
01:20:14.800And so what's interesting to me is that in our culture, it seems like we have this belief that if you're vaccinated, the only thing that's a harm to you is an unvaccinated person.
01:20:15.359 -->
01:20:27.279And what I'm saying is I think that deserves discussion because we're seeing in the literature itself, not fringe literature, and we're seeing in the historical records that's actually not true.
01:20:27.840 -->
01:20:28.399Hmm.
01:20:28.640 -->
01:20:31.199Wow, that's fascinating.
01:20:31.439 -->
01:20:35.600Um all right, so um so question.
01:20:35.760 -->
01:20:38.319Um, do you feed your kids collid over oil?
01:20:41.279 -->
01:20:42.640I I do now.
01:20:44.399 -->
01:20:45.600Okay, all right.
01:20:45.760 -->
01:20:48.319Well, I think it's uh I think it's a fair question.
01:20:48.479 -->
01:20:55.600I mean, I know we have we have listeners who who do vaccine, some don't, some do.
01:20:55.760 -->
01:20:57.359You know, it's all over the board.
01:20:57.600 -->
01:21:18.159But um you know, you it seems like the more you the more you know, the more this stuff comes out, the more you you just realize that um the human the human um expression is to complicate things that are simple.
01:21:21.039 -->
01:21:23.359And we and we just we just love to do it.
01:21:24.399 -->
01:21:30.479We like to kind make we like to simplify the complex and uh and complex the simple.
01:21:30.960 -->
01:21:31.279Yeah.
01:21:32.079 -->
01:21:34.079It seems like uh what we want to do.
01:21:34.399 -->
01:21:34.720Huh.
01:21:34.800 -->
01:21:35.279Well, good.
01:21:35.359 -->
01:21:45.199Well, yeah, I think you've given us a good strategy, lots to chew on here, and um fascinating politics of it all as it as it continues to um unwind.
01:21:45.600 -->
01:21:53.520Um and and um our question of the day is are you giving your kids cod liver oil?
01:21:53.760 -->
01:21:59.119And um is is there a way to run out of cod liver oil?
01:21:59.359 -->
01:22:01.600I mean, is there plenty on the planet?
01:22:02.720 -->
01:22:05.039Oh gosh in the oceans?
01:22:06.560 -->
01:22:12.239Well I mean if if if everybody started giving cod liver oil, would it get would it make a shortage?
01:22:13.119 -->
01:22:16.720Okay, so are you trying to tell us we need to stockpile?
01:22:18.159 -->
01:22:23.199No, I'm just I'm just um I'm just kind of thinking out loud.
01:22:23.279 -->
01:22:25.920I'm I'm a I'm a whosoever will guy, you know.
01:22:26.079 -->
01:22:30.720If if we have a solution, it ought to be a solution that everybody can do.
01:22:31.920 -->
01:22:36.960Well, yeah, okay, so one thing, you can't stockpile it really because it goes bad, right?
01:22:37.359 -->
01:22:47.039Um actually I just looked it up and it said you can have shortages, though a total permanent disappearance is unlikely.
01:22:47.760 -->
01:22:54.880Uh so gosh, maybe I'm gonna before this episode, I guess I'll buy some and put it in the freezer.
01:22:54.960 -->
01:22:59.520Like all right.
01:22:59.680 -->
01:23:04.319Well, I think I think we've uh we we've run uh up and down around the measles here.
01:23:04.479 -->
01:23:10.800Uh thank you for diving into it, um, Cena, and um and for leaving us on a real positive note.
01:23:10.880 -->
01:23:12.880Uh give your kids some cod liver oil.
01:23:12.960 -->
01:23:13.920Maybe take some yourself.
01:23:14.640 -->
01:23:16.720Um course, you know, adults don't need it.
01:23:16.800 -->
01:23:18.880If you've had measles, you know you don't need it.
01:23:19.039 -->
01:23:21.760So um everybody doesn't have to take it.
01:23:22.239 -->
01:23:25.840That's actually the best immunity with that you're seeing in these studies.
01:23:26.079 -->
01:23:30.640And again, I can go on and on, and maybe people can write in or tell us too.
01:23:30.880 -->
01:23:32.479Do they want more information on it?
01:23:32.560 -->
01:23:33.279Are they confused?
01:23:33.439 -->
01:23:38.159Because I know as a mom, I want to make sure I'm doing the best possible and I don't want to live in fear.
01:23:38.399 -->
01:23:47.760So maybe if people want us to do a bonus episode, we can walk through the whole history and what the research says, but I don't want to bore people with more information than they want to know.
01:23:47.840 -->
01:23:50.800So let us know if you want us to do a bonus episode on that.
01:23:51.359 -->
01:23:53.359How much how much measles can you take?
01:23:53.439 -->
01:23:53.760Yeah.
01:23:53.840 -->
01:23:54.319Yeah.
01:23:54.640 -->
01:23:55.760Hey, listen, everybody.
01:23:55.840 -->
01:23:56.239Thanks.
01:23:56.399 -->
01:24:00.479Thanks for joining us on another Beyond Labels podcast.
01:24:00.640 -->
01:24:03.840And we just appreciate you uh investing in us.
01:24:04.000 -->
01:24:07.920And uh, we'll see you again next week on another Beyond Labels.
