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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with Captain Ron.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only, and do not reflect those of iHeartRadio. iHeartRadio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron, and each week on Beyond Contact, we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
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Speaker 4: Hi, and welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and today we're speaking with Adam Pilon and Megan Woomer, who are a husband and wife filmmaking team who just released a documentary about one of the most interesting photos of a possible UFO ever taken. In fact, it premiered on 9-4-26, which is exactly 55 years after the photo was taken. this is one of the most intriguing, enduring UFO photos for many reasons. First off, it was taken above the object, which is very rare. We always take them from below, of course. And it was an official government photo with a documented unbroken chain of custody. And these filmmakers have also uncovered how the man who took the photo back in 1971 actually turns out to be a claimed lifelong contactee himself. So let's dive into that. Welcome, Adam and Megan. How are you guys doing?
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Speaker 5: Good.
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Speaker 6: Very good. Thank you for having us on.
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Speaker 4: Yes. Absolutely.
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Speaker 5: Yeah. And we also loved Contact in the Desert.
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Speaker 6: We were there. Oh, were you there?
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was so great. We had a great time.
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Speaker 7: We were like, everybody who's anybody is going to be at Contact in the Desert this year.
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Speaker 4: Oh, for sure. Yeah.
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Speaker 5: Great.
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Speaker 4: I'm so glad you guys came to Contact. That's good. So this Kote photo has been one floating around the UFO community. We've been seeing it for many, many years. And it probably warranted a deep dive about its origins. So tell us how this whole mystery began starting in 1971 when this photo was taken.
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Speaker 7: In 1971 in Costa Rica during an aerial mapping expedition, Sergio Loaiza was the lead cartographer on an Aero Commander airplane. And they were flying along making maps for the Costa Rican government. And on one frame, frame 300, there was this disc object that was captured on this piece of film. It's an ultra high resolution photograph with a camera designed specifically for cartographic uses. So it was made specifically for making maps. And yeah, so this amazing object was captured on one frame of film. And a few years later when they were reviewing that film to do a dam project, they came across it, and they were like, what is this?
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Speaker 6: This interesting little thing here. And that became the Lake Cote photo.
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Speaker 4: Well, that's where another interesting aspect of this photo is, not only was it, you know, taken officially from the government and the National Geographic Society, the fact that the photo really was never noticed before. For years, right? They took this photograph. At the time, nobody saw anything. Sergei, none of those guys saw anything, right? So it basically just sat there for two years. Is that correct?
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Speaker 1: Yes.
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Speaker 5: I think people, when they see the photo, they don't realize the enormous scale of the picture. Yeah.
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Speaker 7: And they didn't, they were, it was business as usual on the plane when they were making the maps. Like they didn't see it while flying. They were on the plane, and these were highly trained cartographers doing a job. And it's not like digital photography now where you can see instant results. That's true.
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Speaker 4: It was taken with a negative, which that alone changes the whole thing. But they didn't see anything below them anyway. And so they took them at 10,000 feet, and they took them, what, every 13 seconds, right?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, they did.
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Speaker 4: After that job was done, do you know how or who discovered it and how they found that on there?
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Speaker 7: Well, it was Sergio Loaiza himself who, as part of his job, was sent to study the photos for.
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Speaker 7: An upcoming dam project that they were looking into the feasibility of.
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Speaker 6: So it was two years later.
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Speaker 5: And it's a literal speck on the negative. It's not like this big disc on there, but when, when you see it, you definitely see it. And they were like, Whoa, wait, what's this? This is what we were expecting.
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Speaker 4: Wait a second.
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
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Speaker 4: Like, Oh, this is a saucer saucer there.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 6: Exactly.
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Speaker 7: At first, they just kind of thought it was a drop of water.
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Speaker 5: Well, they called it Lagota as a joke.
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Speaker 6: Yeah.
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Speaker 7: So, like, they were like, they had to really kind of go in and take a much closer look. And then once they kind of took a closer look, they could see the three-dimensional shape of the object.
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Speaker 5: Yeah. And then the fact that it just comes in and out with, I mean, it's a very unique picture. And then with the negative as an undisputed chain of custody, it's an official government photo. And so every government says, like, it's real. They're like, it's not been tampered. It's not been altered. It's something. We're not going to say it's a UFO or UAP, but it's definitely up to the viewer.
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Speaker 6: Of course.
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Speaker 4: There's no question that we know that it's a real photograph. And that's one of the aspects of this as well. But it remained hidden from the public until those brothers, Ricardo and Carlos, sent a copy of it. to the now-defunct American Research Group, which was Ground Saucer Watch. And that got released in November of 79, and it took 10 more years for it to be released in the United States, which was 1989. So it essentially remained hidden nearly, what, 20 years since they took it. What do you guys make of that?
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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's pretty remarkable that something that amazing can sit in the archives for so long. You know, when Sergio discovered it in 1973, he kicked it up to his bosses and his boss's bosses. And they just kind of said, you know, be quiet. This is top secret information. And at that time, you know, Sergio being the, you know, an employee and.
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Speaker 5: And, you know, in the airlines where the chain of command is respected, he was like, OK, no problem.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, he just kind of listened to his orders. And so it After they discovered it in 1973, it kind of sat quiet for a while until the Vilchez brothers discovered it, and nobody really knows how they came across it and were able to get it out. And then in 1979, the National Newspaper of Costa Rica wrote an article about it, and the Vilchez brothers got it to the public.
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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 4: You know, I would expect almost a photo like this. It feels like in today's world, it would just go missing suddenly and accident. Oh, it's been lost because you hear that time and time again, you know, and they tape over the moon footage and things like that. It's like, really? That's what happened to these? It feels like those would, you know, we're lucky that we even have this photograph, right?
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
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Speaker 5: And it's still in the National Institute in Costa Rica and San Jose. So it's down there. And then Costa Rica is unique, too, because they don't have a military anymore. So a lot of things that are super secret and hush hush, as Leslie Kane says, overkill in the U.S. right now with the secrecy and everything else. Those obstacles don't exist right now in Costa Rica. They're very like chill about it. They're like, yeah, yeah, of course.
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Speaker 4: Now, had you guys been aware of this photo or did you go down there to Costa Rica? Didn't one of your friends have a picture of it or something?
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Speaker 5: Yes, my friend Kelly with the pink hair in the movie, she showed me the picture. And my husband is very interested in UFOs and UAPs. I had never seen it before that I know of. But I showed it to Adam. I was like, this would be such a cool picture. to make a documentary about. And he was like, yeah, let's do it. And then everything fell in really naturally, really, really well.
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Speaker 4: Adam, you had never seen that photo before?
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Speaker 7: It was my first time seeing it. When she came back from her trip to Costa Rica, she was just so excited about it. And she's like, you got to check this out and showed me the photo. And I had never seen it before. And I, you know, after having done some research into it, it's It's been around. It's had a lot of prominence within the UFO researcher community.
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Speaker 6: But it was all new to me. Cool.
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Speaker 4: All right, listen, guys, we need to take a break here. When we come back, we're going to ask you about the real bombshell development in this story, which is that the man who took this photo actually claims to be a lifelong contactee who says he had ET encounters most of his life going back to childhood. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Okay, we're back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Megan and Adam about the Cote photo. So another fascinating aspect about this photo is the fact that the guy who took this photo also now claims to have been a lifelong ET contactee. Tell us about that. That's an incredible coincidence.
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Speaker 7: His name is Sergio Loaiza, and he's just the most amazing person. When we started off, we didn't we'd never heard of him. But then as we.
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Speaker 4: Started, you never heard of a cartographer from Costa Rica.
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Speaker 6: Right.
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Speaker 4: I don't know how you don't know about this guy.
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Speaker 7: But, you know, we got to Megan started texting back and forth with them and they became really good friends over the course of pre-production. And he's just this genuinely kind soul who's very like welcoming and open. And he kind of told us it was time to start sharing his stories. And so when we reached out to him and got in contact with him, he had all these great stories.
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Speaker 6: And it was just one after another.
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Speaker 7: And we couldn't really believe it ourselves because it was, you know, we're asking about this UFO photo. And it turns out that, you know, from five years old on, he had his own experiences with UFOs.
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Speaker 5: And we try to be really respectful and not push him too much, but he was very open and we definitely were like, anything you do not want shared, we're more than happy to keep it private. But he's like, no, no, it's time for me to tell my stories. It's time for me to kind of tell my experiences and share them. And he's just a beautiful person. Like he's such.
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Speaker 4: Did he ever say that he saw flying saucers that looked like that, like an actual flying saucer? Did he actually say that?
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Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, he has a WhatsApp group where he posts photos weekly of the little, he sees a lot of the Tic Tac ones right now. So he walks outside and he sees them and he snaps a picture on his iPhone and he shares it in the group. And I mean, he's, So one of the things is once you see them, people tend to repeatedly see them, as I'm sure you know. And he's just a beacon for these.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, he's seen disc-shaped UFOs. He's seen cigar-shaped UFOs.
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Speaker 7: So he's had multiple encounters with a variety of ships.
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Speaker 5: As well as the ETs themselves.
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Speaker 4: I was going to say, I think he had actual ET firsthand encounters. encounters with beings, right? Did he tell you about that? Did he share that with you?
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Speaker 7: Yeah, and he does a much better job of telling those stories than we ever could. But yeah, he has had direct contact with ETs.
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Speaker 5: Even one after he had a heart surgery, and he's elderly now, And it wasn't looking too good for him. But then he was visited by some ETs. And the next morning, the doctors are like, what happened? Who came in to see you? Like, what attendant was here? And he's like, no one. They're like, you're healthier than I am. Like, what happened? How did this happen? And he's like, you know.
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Speaker 4: He attributes that to the ETs.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: So that he thinks he was actually healed by them as well.
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Speaker 5: Yes. Yes. And I know we are aware that people have had unpleasant experiences with the ETs and we honor that. But Sergio and Emmy and Kelly, who are in our movie, have only had positive experiences and we would have shown both. That's just the way that the story unfolded in this case for us.
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Speaker 4: I've heard that he also has gone back to that lake on occasion and even taken different groups out there. Is that becoming like a regular thing for him? What's the story with that?
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Speaker 7: Well, he's always kind of held Lake Cote as a place of reverence. The lake has a long history and oral tradition of being this place that's revered by local tribes as a place where the gods live. And you go there and it's a very peaceful, quiet place that really has an energy about it that kind of sucks you in and And makes you feel present. And so he goes there to kind of recharge his batteries and, you know, experience nature and feel peace.
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Speaker 4: Regardless of the photograph, right? He just has been doing this his whole life going there.
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Speaker 6: Yes.
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Speaker 5: Yes. He's very like in tune with nature and beauty and everything kind of around him, too.
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Speaker 4: I wonder if he thinks that that UFO and or any others go into the lake because they're often seen, you know, in the water. USOs are probably as popular as UFOs, actually.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, he's he off camera has mentioned that, you know, he feels like it's some form of portal where, you know, like these ships are.
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Speaker 6: Coming in and out of the lake.
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Speaker 7: There's no really way to prove that or anything. He hasn't seen him coming in a lake himself, but he has mentioned that he felt like the lake had something.
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Speaker 6: To do with it.
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Speaker 5: And then other experiencers in the Costa Rican UFO UAP community, they do think that there is a ship that comes out of in and out of Lago Cote, which is interesting.
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Speaker 4: Interesting. You know, one of the most interesting little details within the film for me was when Sergio was telling the story of him walking, I assume, near the lake there. And he was in the woods. And this old guy approached him, didn't know him, didn't anything. And he said to him, Sergio, it's time to tell your story. What is that all about? We hear things like that from time to time where an anomalous stranger will say something to someone about their personal life. And it's always intriguing, like, well, wait a minute. How do they know that? Are they tapped into that? How does that all work? And it seemed like this was a profound moment for him. What did you guys think he thought about that encounter with this guy, I suppose?
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Speaker 7: Yeah, he's very connected and in tune. He feels vibrations and frequencies.
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Speaker 5: And as Esteban would say, he doesn't believe in coincidence anymore. So he really believes everything is kind of intentional or leads us. to the next, you know, the next phase of consciousness or, you know, awareness.
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Speaker 4: Is that what made him share the story with you so openly is because that guy told him, look, it's time to share your stories.
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Speaker 5: So we connected with Michael Strickland, who originally drum scanned the photo, who put us in contact with Esteban Carranza, who's a lawyer and in the film. And Esteban is a longtime friend of Sergio. So Esteban connected us with Sergio.
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Speaker 4: I'm asking if Sergio told you and shared his stories with you because of this encounter with the guy that told him it's time to go share your stories.
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Speaker 7: I think that was part of it, but also he's, he's in his eighties now and he's at that point in life where, uh, I think regardless of that incident, he's ready to kind of start sharing, sharing his, his experiences with people. But I think that definitely helped, uh, Inform him that, you know, now.
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Speaker 6: Is the time.
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Speaker 7: And so he really feels comfortable sharing, sharing those stories now.
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Speaker 5: And I think he had such trust in Esteban. And then he when we chatted with him, he felt like the vibe was right. I wish we had a better answer.
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Speaker 6: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: And then your girlfriend also has seen these ships, at least as she had encounters with E.T. as well.
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Speaker 5: She's seen the ships, but not the ETs that she knows of personally.
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Speaker 4: And does she feel that that they are definitely like extraterrestrial.
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Speaker 5: Or off world or? Yeah, she's a believer.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, she believes.
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Speaker 7: And, you know, there's no real way to do like chemical analysis on the ships or anything like that or tell you exactly where they're from. But they definitely have a profound effect on the people that see them and encounter them.
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Speaker 4: It seems that way. And it seems like Sergio really took this to heart. Like this was a life-changing moment. He seems very overjoyed that you guys were there, that he's almost kind of kept this to himself his whole life. And now all of a sudden he gets to get it out there. Is that the vibe you guys got?
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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think he was very excited to be able to share that. And when we first started communicating with him, like I said, Megan and him would text back and forth and they would talk more about family and, uh, relationships and life and those sorts of things. So like they really got to know each other on, on a personal level before we ever went down and shot a frame of film. So by the time we got down there, it already kind of felt like we had a small little family in Costa Rica that, you know, we, we became instant friends with and, uh, still to this day, share stories back and forth. And, sharing each other's successes. And we've been WhatsAppping with Sergio, and he's excited to see the film come out. And he feels like it's a great way to kind of leave something for his family and future generations.
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Speaker 4: Absolutely. It's great that we're getting this all documented. While he's still alive, you're capturing his first-person account, which is always very important. When we come back, we're going to ask you guys about another important player in the story that you just mentioned, Esteban. who's a Costa Rican attorney who also happens to be a UFO researcher. And he's the guy that put together this high-res version, digital version of this photo. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM, Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Adam and Megan about the Cote photo. So this guy Esteban gets involved because it turns out that his uncle, Herman Copper, is had an original 8x10 negative that he obtained directly from National Geographic Institute of Costa Rico, which he then passed down to Esteban.
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Speaker 6: In the 90s.
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Speaker 4: Because of this, years later, his interest grew in UFOs, and in 2022, he gets a contact copy of the original negative and makes a high-res digital copy, which is the most detailed digital scan of this image ever that's publicly available. When I print something here, I use 200 dpi. I think he did, was it 11,000 dpi for this photo? Tell us about that.
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Speaker 7: Well, Esteban is a very curious mind. As you mentioned, he's a lawyer by day and a researcher by night. When he was younger, his uncle, who lived in Florida at the time, when he would visit, showed Esteban just a picture of the actual disk, and it captivated Esteban, and he was always kind of curious about it. And when his uncle passed away, his aunt knew that Esteban was curious very into the topic and would be the perfect person to receive his uncle's research material. And so he got the research material just expecting to see a copy of the small photograph that his uncle took of it. And lo and behold, there was this large 23 by 23 centimeter contact negative of the actual photo.
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Speaker 6: And that's very, very rare.
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Speaker 7: Uh, so he didn't quite know what to do with it at first, but you know, he wanted to follow in his uncle's footsteps. And so he sent it off to liberal Kansas of all places to have it scanned using a Tango drum scanner. And a Tango drum scanner is the height of analog to digital digital replication. So it's an archival quality, uh, scanner that is this highly specialized piece of equipment.
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Speaker 6: And yeah, so they, they, we.
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Speaker 7: Went and scanned the negative, uh, at 11,000 DPI, which is, which is massive. You know, it's, uh, it's this very high resolution piece of photography to begin with, but then, um, you know, it's 23 by 23 centimeters, which is huge. And the disc itself is 0.42 centimeters on it. So it's a, you know, small little fraction of the actual negative. But using the Tango drum scanner, we were able to get a really close, detailed look of the object itself.
00:23:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really awesome. And you've made it available now, right? People can download this photo themselves, right?
00:23:10
Speaker 6: For free.
00:23:12
Speaker 4: For free.
00:23:14
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like you have to put this on the site at this. information should be free and disseminated to the public. He's like, everyone should have access to this to be able to make their own opinion.
00:23:25
Speaker 4: Absolutely. And I understand that at the time, I think you guys mentioned that J. Allen Hynek had an opportunity to look at this photo as well. Do you know what his reaction was?
00:23:35
Speaker 6: You know, he.
00:23:38
Speaker 6: He was a fan of the photo.
00:23:40
Speaker 7: He did some research into it.
00:23:43
Speaker 6: But Dr.
00:23:45
Speaker 7: Richard Haynes and Dr. Jack Vallee did a much more comprehensive study analysis of it. And so we don't have a report to point to like we do with Haynes and Vallee that J. Allen Hynek did. But he's famous in UFO circles for his research. We're from Michigan, so there's the swamp gas sightings of the 60s. He kind of changed his mind over time, it seems like, from a skeptic to a believer. So I don't want to put words in J. Allen Hynek's mouth, but he did have a chance to research the photo.
00:24:26
Speaker 4: What was the conclusion from the report that Vallée and Haynes actually did when they analyzed it?
00:24:32
Speaker 7: They determined that it was an anomalous object on the film and that the film wasn't tampered. They stopped short of saying it's non-human or making any specific claims about what exactly it is, but they did all sorts of analyses with the shadows and the lights and looked into all the aspects of the camera and the flight paths, and they determined that there is an unidentifiable object on that film. Like I said, they stopped short of making claims, but they say that it's really there.
00:25:13
Speaker 4: Well, that's the important thing that it is, in fact, an object and it's there. There are other people out there who have alleged that it could be a piece of dust under the film or possibly, as you mentioned, a water droplet because of the way the shadow is. The shadow sort of opposite is the direction of the shadows on the other pieces. So some people are thinking it could be water. Have you seen any other scrutiny of the photo?
00:25:37
Speaker 7: You know, there's all sorts of people who said it's a hubcap or somebody threw something from the plane.
00:25:43
Speaker 5: And Sergio said if it was a piece of dust or something had gotten into the camera, the camera would not have fired. I mean, this is a government camera that weighs 100 pounds. It's the height of technology. It's highly specialized. This isn't like a little, you know, that you're just out and about with.
00:25:59
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a special cartographic camera that has characteristics. Like she said, if there's a particle of dust in between.
00:26:04
Speaker 5: Or water.
00:26:06
Speaker 6: Then the camera just wouldn't fire.
00:26:08
Speaker 5: And it would have been on the other frames as well. So some people do say a hobcat must have flown off the plane. We're like, no, it wasn't a hobcat.
00:26:17
Speaker 4: I understand that. As far as great and clear as this photo clearly is, The problem still lies is that we don't know how far away the photo was. I believe they calculated it would be, if it was on the ground, it would be about 80 to 84 meters across, which is huge because they were at 10,000 feet. So that would give us an object of 80 to 84 meters. But we don't know how far that was. If it was really close to the lens, it would be tiny, right?
00:26:47
Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't really, one of the mysteries about the photo is exactly how high the object was. We know it was under the plane at 10,000 feet. But other than that, we can't really tell you it was at 5,000 feet or 8,000 feet. So those would have big implications on the actual size of the craft. But we do know from the scale of the photograph, which is 1 in 20,000, that it's kind of like saying one centimeter equals 200 meters. And if you do the math there, it's 84 meters in diameter, which is huge. But there's no real way to tell you exactly how high the object was when it was captured.
00:27:34
Speaker 4: Has there been any other modern analysis done on this? I know we had the Valet report years ago, and then... He made this high res version in 2022 to digitize the film. Has there been other modern things done that you know of?
00:27:48
Speaker 5: It's been in the, it's in the Cometa report, which is the French admirals in general say the most likely explanation is the extraterrestrial hypothesis, meaning that extraterrestrials are the most likely explanation of.
00:28:03
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:28:03
Speaker 7: And there's, there's, there's been plenty of people who have taken the photo and analyzed it and talked about the shadows. And there's a lot of, a lot of people who went really deep into this photo and talked about all the sort, all the aspects of it. And people have been reaching out to us after we kind of released the movie and are saying like, here, check out my report. And some of them are like very detailed and, So we we definitely encourage.
00:28:35
Speaker 4: Own reports on this photo.
00:28:37
Speaker 6: It's a captivating photo.
00:28:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome. So today it's actually still available. You can actually go down there and see it. Is that true?
00:28:49
Speaker 7: It's it's still in the archives of the National Geographic Institute of Costa Rica, and they've certified copies of the photo and. It's sort of a point of national pride in Costa Rica.
00:29:01
Speaker 6: Like people.
00:29:02
Speaker 4: Does the government take a position on it? Do they did they have a statement about it?
00:29:07
Speaker 7: They acknowledge that it's a real photograph, but they don't state what they believe it to be. But they also they're very open that it's a real photograph and that that it's not fraudulent.
00:29:20
Speaker 6: Right.
00:29:20
Speaker 4: I mean, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's alien in nature. It could be a human advanced technology or whatever. We don't know. But that's cool that they at least acknowledge it. I think that's wonderful. Okay, when we come back, we're going to ask you guys if there are any reports at the time the picture was taken back in 1971 of UAPs or UFOs in that area. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Adam and Megan about this Cote photo, which is incredible. Did you guys look to see if there were any UFO reports in that area around that time in 1971 that maybe was similar to this object?
00:30:12
Speaker 7: I can't point to a specific case in the early 70s other than this one, but there is all sorts of oral tradition and people that we've talked to have had encounters themselves. Emmy, who we interview for part of the documentary, her husband David had an experience in 1971 where where he was living in Turin, Italy, and he was abducted in 1971, which led him to the Arenal region where Lake Cote is.
00:30:44
Speaker 5: And he's like, I've seen this all before. And Emmy, similarly, they're both Italian, but in different parts of Italy. And she was so drawn to Costa Rica, she meditated instantly when she's there. She's like, I touched his arm. And my whole body was electrified. And I think they moved in with each other like a week later. There's just something unexplainable.
00:31:05
Speaker 4: It is incredible the amount of coincidence or you could almost say synchronicity on some of these things. That's just incredible. The fact that that guy's uncle happened to get this photograph. The fact that it was 1971 when this guy had his thing. 1971 was the date of the photograph. The fact that he meets this guy randomly in the woods who says, tell your story. The fact that your friend showed you this photo that neither of you have ever seen. I mean, a lot of things had to happen for this film to kind of come together. You must feel sort of guided almost, don't you?
00:31:37
Speaker 6: Yeah, it pulled us in. We didn't choose it. It chose us. And We're filmmakers.
00:31:42
Speaker 7: I make commercials for a living, but it was at a time and it came up at a time in my life, in our lives, where we wanted to do a project that was fun and interesting and that we were interested in versus just making another car commercial. So it really guided us in. We made our first phone call to Michael Strickland, who was the drum scan technician, and then He's like, oh, yeah, you got to talk to Esteban. And then from there, it just kind of snowballed. And it had a way of drawing us into the topic. When we started, we didn't know if it was going to be a short film or a feature like documentary. And we didn't know what it was going to be. But every turn, you know, something kind of opened its doors for us.
00:32:26
Speaker 6: And it's been an amazing journey. I love it.
00:32:29
Speaker 4: That's wonderful. You also have Leslie Keen in the film, which is wonderful. Why does she consider this photograph to be so significant compared to the thousands of other alleged UFO photos?
00:32:40
Speaker 7: Well, she talks about one of the beautiful aspects is that you're looking down on the photograph, which is really unique. You know, it's a different perspective. And, you know, most photographs are looking up at something. This is looking.
00:32:54
Speaker 6: Down on it.
00:32:55
Speaker 7: And its clarity is amazing. It's so detailed.
00:33:00
Speaker 5: And the chain of command is really important to her as well.
00:33:04
Speaker 7: She can follow the chain of custody back to the Costa Rican government. That's very important to her. And she was a great partner to interview throughout.
00:33:14
Speaker 6: All of this.
00:33:14
Speaker 7: And she helped us a lot with kind of understanding the photo and the history of the photo. And she was just an amazing person to talk to.
00:33:22
Speaker 4: I think it's wonderful to get her for this film because she's obviously been a very important part of this community for years. She did the 2017 article in the New York Times that's changed everything for all of us. So it's wonderful to see that. And I agree. I mean, I can't I was trying to think when I saw the film. If there's another picture I've seen, there's been a few out of aircraft, of course. Pilots have taken photos and things, but never straight down like that, that I can recall. Maybe there's one or two out there, but I don't recall one to my mind. Usually they're taken out the plane window or whatever. Most of them, as you know, are taken from the ground looking up, of course. When do we get that? perspective of straight down what a unique circumstance feels like even that's another one of these synchronicities what are the odds within that 13 seconds because the frame before and the frame after have nothing on it and that one frame who knows how fast it was going who knows what the velocity any any of that was we got lucky and he caught that on that frame.
00:34:25
Speaker 7: And it's been an amazing point of interest ever since. You know, Leslie first came across the photo on the cover of the Cometa report. She was one of the first people in the States to get that report. And a reporter friend asked her, you know, do you want to do something with this? And that was her very first intro introduction into the UFO topic. So it was with her from the very beginning of her career. And somehow it's, still there 25 years later. It's been part of Sergio's life for 55 years now. And yeah, it's touched the lives of a lot of people.
00:35:01
Speaker 4: This is one of those stories where it really does feel like everything's interconnected. Look at how that all works. Well, I think it was 99 she saw this photo the first time. I think it was back in the 90s, actually. And now, look, she changed the world in 2017. So it's interesting how all of these things occur. I feel, you know, almost like there's a plan there. OK, what was the single biggest discovery that you guys made while you were producing this documentary that changed your understanding of the photograph and the incident for you?
00:35:31
Speaker 7: For me, the most interesting part about all of it was kind of the human experience around it. Getting to talk to Sergio, learning about his experiences, getting to meet Esteban and following on his journey of discovery. He hasn't seen one himself, but his question is, why not me? He's always been really interested in the topic and just following along his journey and meeting Emi. Emi is such a beautiful person and You know, they have this little Italian themed alien themed restaurant in the middle of Costa Rica. And so I think really the most interesting part of it all was getting to know the people around the story.
00:36:14
Speaker 4: Is that what you think, Megan? Or do you have another take that you also felt?
00:36:18
Speaker 5: No, I agree. I think that I mean, we've all seen at this point the articles, the videos, the photos. And I think for me, it's like, OK, what does this mean for us? They're here, whether or not, you know, I think they're here anyways. So it's like, what does this mean for us? Like, what do they mean for our lives and our interaction? And I think that's the next chapter. Do you think.
00:36:36
Speaker 4: This documentary made you guys more believers than you were before, perhaps?
00:36:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a very open person, but, you know, 100% believe. What about you, Adam?
00:36:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I've always had an interest in the topic and I've always had a belief in it, but just kind of being drawn into this experience with it, you know, it really kind of solidified in my mind that, you know, there's something bigger out there and we're just a small part of this universe. There's so much more to be discovered and thought about and looked at and discussed. So, yeah, it makes me feel connected to the subject a lot more than I ever was.
00:37:17
Speaker 6: And it really amped up that belief.
00:37:20
Speaker 4: So at the end of the day, after all this research and meeting all these different people and getting to know Sergio and going down to Costa Rica, what do you guys think is on that film?
00:37:30
Speaker 6: A flying saucer.
00:37:32
Speaker 7: You know, I don't know whether it's interdimensional or from outer space or from under the water, but I do know that there's a physical object on this piece of film.
00:37:44
Speaker 4: Yes, but do you think it could be a human-made structure is what my question really is.
00:37:48
Speaker 5: I mean, 1971 was pre-cell phone, pre-internet. I mean, not even cassette tapes were out. I don't think that any government had the capacity to do that kind of engineering back then.
00:37:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would tend to agree with that.
00:38:01
Speaker 5: It was pre-cable TV. It was very.
00:38:04
Speaker 7: There weren't drones flying around delivering packages to people.
00:38:07
Speaker 6: Oh, I get it.
00:38:09
Speaker 4: I just, there are people that believe that, you know, our aerospace industry is 30, 40 years ahead of where we are today. You know, I've heard from some of these things where by the time you see a plane, it's already kind of retired as far as they're concerned because they don't let it out because they keep it so private. So I wonder if you thought that could be it. You're pretty convinced it's.
00:38:30
Speaker 7: Well, it's, you know, this is a remote part of Costa Rica. And in 1971, it was even much more remote. The idea that it's, you know, an advanced government craft really kind of.
00:38:42
Speaker 5: With no base, no.
00:38:45
Speaker 7: Yeah, it doesn't really make too much sense to me. So it's a very interesting artifact. It's amazing that it was captured on this one piece of film. And it's worth taking a look at it under a microscope and seeing what it has to offer. So that's why we kind of made it available so people can go and look at it and see it for themselves.
00:39:06
Speaker 4: I agree. I think it's wonderful. And the fact that all these little pieces fit together so well make it even that much more interesting. It's very well done, and I wish you guys all the luck with the film. Thank you for sharing with us today. It was very insightful. You guys can find the film at thecotephoto.com, which is C-O-T-E photo dot com. Also, please check out Ancient Mysteries Conference at edgarcasey.org. I'm going to be there. It's going to be an incredible event. You can get $ 50 off if you use Beyond 50. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at CITD underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contactinthedesert.com. Stay open-minded.
00:39:44
Speaker 8: And rational as we explore the unknown right here on iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
00:40:02
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going to iHeartRadio.com.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with Captain Ron.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only, and do not reflect those of iHeartRadio. iHeartRadio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
00:00:59
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron, and each week on Beyond Contact, we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
00:01:15
Speaker 4: Hi, and welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and today we're speaking with Adam Pilon and Megan Woomer, who are a husband and wife filmmaking team who just released a documentary about one of the most interesting photos of a possible UFO ever taken. In fact, it premiered on 9-4-26, which is exactly 55 years after the photo was taken. this is one of the most intriguing, enduring UFO photos for many reasons. First off, it was taken above the object, which is very rare. We always take them from below, of course. And it was an official government photo with a documented unbroken chain of custody. And these filmmakers have also uncovered how the man who took the photo back in 1971 actually turns out to be a claimed lifelong contactee himself. So let's dive into that. Welcome, Adam and Megan. How are you guys doing?
00:02:08
Speaker 5: Good.
00:02:09
Speaker 6: Very good. Thank you for having us on.
00:02:10
Speaker 4: Yes. Absolutely.
00:02:12
Speaker 5: Yeah. And we also loved Contact in the Desert.
00:02:14
Speaker 6: We were there. Oh, were you there?
00:02:16
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was so great. We had a great time.
00:02:19
Speaker 7: We were like, everybody who's anybody is going to be at Contact in the Desert this year.
00:02:24
Speaker 4: Oh, for sure. Yeah.
00:02:25
Speaker 5: Great.
00:02:26
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you guys came to Contact. That's good. So this Kote photo has been one floating around the UFO community. We've been seeing it for many, many years. And it probably warranted a deep dive about its origins. So tell us how this whole mystery began starting in 1971 when this photo was taken.
00:02:47
Speaker 7: In 1971 in Costa Rica during an aerial mapping expedition, Sergio Loaiza was the lead cartographer on an Aero Commander airplane. And they were flying along making maps for the Costa Rican government. And on one frame, frame 300, there was this disc object that was captured on this piece of film. It's an ultra high resolution photograph with a camera designed specifically for cartographic uses. So it was made specifically for making maps. And yeah, so this amazing object was captured on one frame of film. And a few years later when they were reviewing that film to do a dam project, they came across it, and they were like, what is this?
00:03:41
Speaker 6: This interesting little thing here. And that became the Lake Cote photo.
00:03:46
Speaker 4: Well, that's where another interesting aspect of this photo is, not only was it, you know, taken officially from the government and the National Geographic Society, the fact that the photo really was never noticed before. For years, right? They took this photograph. At the time, nobody saw anything. Sergei, none of those guys saw anything, right? So it basically just sat there for two years. Is that correct?
00:04:13
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:04:13
Speaker 5: I think people, when they see the photo, they don't realize the enormous scale of the picture. Yeah.
00:04:20
Speaker 7: And they didn't, they were, it was business as usual on the plane when they were making the maps. Like they didn't see it while flying. They were on the plane, and these were highly trained cartographers doing a job. And it's not like digital photography now where you can see instant results. That's true.
00:04:43
Speaker 4: It was taken with a negative, which that alone changes the whole thing. But they didn't see anything below them anyway. And so they took them at 10,000 feet, and they took them, what, every 13 seconds, right?
00:04:55
Speaker 6: Yeah, they did.
00:04:57
Speaker 4: After that job was done, do you know how or who discovered it and how they found that on there?
00:05:03
Speaker 7: Well, it was Sergio Loaiza himself who, as part of his job, was sent to study the photos for.
00:05:14
Speaker 7: An upcoming dam project that they were looking into the feasibility of.
00:05:19
Speaker 6: So it was two years later.
00:05:22
Speaker 5: And it's a literal speck on the negative. It's not like this big disc on there, but when, when you see it, you definitely see it. And they were like, Whoa, wait, what's this? This is what we were expecting.
00:05:32
Speaker 4: Wait a second.
00:05:33
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
00:05:35
Speaker 4: Like, Oh, this is a saucer saucer there.
00:05:38
Speaker 1: Right.
00:05:38
Speaker 6: Exactly.
00:05:39
Speaker 7: At first, they just kind of thought it was a drop of water.
00:05:42
Speaker 5: Well, they called it Lagota as a joke.
00:05:44
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:05:45
Speaker 7: So, like, they were like, they had to really kind of go in and take a much closer look. And then once they kind of took a closer look, they could see the three-dimensional shape of the object.
00:05:57
Speaker 5: Yeah. And then the fact that it just comes in and out with, I mean, it's a very unique picture. And then with the negative as an undisputed chain of custody, it's an official government photo. And so every government says, like, it's real. They're like, it's not been tampered. It's not been altered. It's something. We're not going to say it's a UFO or UAP, but it's definitely up to the viewer.
00:06:20
Speaker 6: Of course.
00:06:21
Speaker 4: There's no question that we know that it's a real photograph. And that's one of the aspects of this as well. But it remained hidden from the public until those brothers, Ricardo and Carlos, sent a copy of it. to the now-defunct American Research Group, which was Ground Saucer Watch. And that got released in November of 79, and it took 10 more years for it to be released in the United States, which was 1989. So it essentially remained hidden nearly, what, 20 years since they took it. What do you guys make of that?
00:06:55
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's pretty remarkable that something that amazing can sit in the archives for so long. You know, when Sergio discovered it in 1973, he kicked it up to his bosses and his boss's bosses. And they just kind of said, you know, be quiet. This is top secret information. And at that time, you know, Sergio being the, you know, an employee and.
00:07:21
Speaker 5: And, you know, in the airlines where the chain of command is respected, he was like, OK, no problem.
00:07:26
Speaker 7: Yeah, he just kind of listened to his orders. And so it After they discovered it in 1973, it kind of sat quiet for a while until the Vilchez brothers discovered it, and nobody really knows how they came across it and were able to get it out. And then in 1979, the National Newspaper of Costa Rica wrote an article about it, and the Vilchez brothers got it to the public.
00:07:55
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
00:07:57
Speaker 4: You know, I would expect almost a photo like this. It feels like in today's world, it would just go missing suddenly and accident. Oh, it's been lost because you hear that time and time again, you know, and they tape over the moon footage and things like that. It's like, really? That's what happened to these? It feels like those would, you know, we're lucky that we even have this photograph, right?
00:08:17
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:18
Speaker 5: And it's still in the National Institute in Costa Rica and San Jose. So it's down there. And then Costa Rica is unique, too, because they don't have a military anymore. So a lot of things that are super secret and hush hush, as Leslie Kane says, overkill in the U.S. right now with the secrecy and everything else. Those obstacles don't exist right now in Costa Rica. They're very like chill about it. They're like, yeah, yeah, of course.
00:08:45
Speaker 4: Now, had you guys been aware of this photo or did you go down there to Costa Rica? Didn't one of your friends have a picture of it or something?
00:08:52
Speaker 5: Yes, my friend Kelly with the pink hair in the movie, she showed me the picture. And my husband is very interested in UFOs and UAPs. I had never seen it before that I know of. But I showed it to Adam. I was like, this would be such a cool picture. to make a documentary about. And he was like, yeah, let's do it. And then everything fell in really naturally, really, really well.
00:09:13
Speaker 4: Adam, you had never seen that photo before?
00:09:15
Speaker 7: It was my first time seeing it. When she came back from her trip to Costa Rica, she was just so excited about it. And she's like, you got to check this out and showed me the photo. And I had never seen it before. And I, you know, after having done some research into it, it's It's been around. It's had a lot of prominence within the UFO researcher community.
00:09:40
Speaker 6: But it was all new to me. Cool.
00:09:42
Speaker 4: All right, listen, guys, we need to take a break here. When we come back, we're going to ask you about the real bombshell development in this story, which is that the man who took this photo actually claims to be a lifelong contactee who says he had ET encounters most of his life going back to childhood. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Okay, we're back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Megan and Adam about the Cote photo. So another fascinating aspect about this photo is the fact that the guy who took this photo also now claims to have been a lifelong ET contactee. Tell us about that. That's an incredible coincidence.
00:10:38
Speaker 7: His name is Sergio Loaiza, and he's just the most amazing person. When we started off, we didn't we'd never heard of him. But then as we.
00:10:47
Speaker 4: Started, you never heard of a cartographer from Costa Rica.
00:10:51
Speaker 6: Right.
00:10:52
Speaker 4: I don't know how you don't know about this guy.
00:10:55
Speaker 7: But, you know, we got to Megan started texting back and forth with them and they became really good friends over the course of pre-production. And he's just this genuinely kind soul who's very like welcoming and open. And he kind of told us it was time to start sharing his stories. And so when we reached out to him and got in contact with him, he had all these great stories.
00:11:19
Speaker 6: And it was just one after another.
00:11:20
Speaker 7: And we couldn't really believe it ourselves because it was, you know, we're asking about this UFO photo. And it turns out that, you know, from five years old on, he had his own experiences with UFOs.
00:11:35
Speaker 5: And we try to be really respectful and not push him too much, but he was very open and we definitely were like, anything you do not want shared, we're more than happy to keep it private. But he's like, no, no, it's time for me to tell my stories. It's time for me to kind of tell my experiences and share them. And he's just a beautiful person. Like he's such.
00:11:54
Speaker 4: Did he ever say that he saw flying saucers that looked like that, like an actual flying saucer? Did he actually say that?
00:12:02
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, he has a WhatsApp group where he posts photos weekly of the little, he sees a lot of the Tic Tac ones right now. So he walks outside and he sees them and he snaps a picture on his iPhone and he shares it in the group. And I mean, he's, So one of the things is once you see them, people tend to repeatedly see them, as I'm sure you know. And he's just a beacon for these.
00:12:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's seen disc-shaped UFOs. He's seen cigar-shaped UFOs.
00:12:31
Speaker 7: So he's had multiple encounters with a variety of ships.
00:12:38
Speaker 5: As well as the ETs themselves.
00:12:40
Speaker 4: I was going to say, I think he had actual ET firsthand encounters. encounters with beings, right? Did he tell you about that? Did he share that with you?
00:12:48
Speaker 7: Yeah, and he does a much better job of telling those stories than we ever could. But yeah, he has had direct contact with ETs.
00:13:00
Speaker 5: Even one after he had a heart surgery, and he's elderly now, And it wasn't looking too good for him. But then he was visited by some ETs. And the next morning, the doctors are like, what happened? Who came in to see you? Like, what attendant was here? And he's like, no one. They're like, you're healthier than I am. Like, what happened? How did this happen? And he's like, you know.
00:13:22
Speaker 4: He attributes that to the ETs.
00:13:25
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker 4: So that he thinks he was actually healed by them as well.
00:13:28
Speaker 5: Yes. Yes. And I know we are aware that people have had unpleasant experiences with the ETs and we honor that. But Sergio and Emmy and Kelly, who are in our movie, have only had positive experiences and we would have shown both. That's just the way that the story unfolded in this case for us.
00:13:48
Speaker 4: I've heard that he also has gone back to that lake on occasion and even taken different groups out there. Is that becoming like a regular thing for him? What's the story with that?
00:13:57
Speaker 7: Well, he's always kind of held Lake Cote as a place of reverence. The lake has a long history and oral tradition of being this place that's revered by local tribes as a place where the gods live. And you go there and it's a very peaceful, quiet place that really has an energy about it that kind of sucks you in and And makes you feel present. And so he goes there to kind of recharge his batteries and, you know, experience nature and feel peace.
00:14:33
Speaker 4: Regardless of the photograph, right? He just has been doing this his whole life going there.
00:14:37
Speaker 6: Yes.
00:14:38
Speaker 5: Yes. He's very like in tune with nature and beauty and everything kind of around him, too.
00:14:45
Speaker 4: I wonder if he thinks that that UFO and or any others go into the lake because they're often seen, you know, in the water. USOs are probably as popular as UFOs, actually.
00:14:56
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's he off camera has mentioned that, you know, he feels like it's some form of portal where, you know, like these ships are.
00:15:07
Speaker 6: Coming in and out of the lake.
00:15:08
Speaker 7: There's no really way to prove that or anything. He hasn't seen him coming in a lake himself, but he has mentioned that he felt like the lake had something.
00:15:20
Speaker 6: To do with it.
00:15:21
Speaker 5: And then other experiencers in the Costa Rican UFO UAP community, they do think that there is a ship that comes out of in and out of Lago Cote, which is interesting.
00:15:32
Speaker 4: Interesting. You know, one of the most interesting little details within the film for me was when Sergio was telling the story of him walking, I assume, near the lake there. And he was in the woods. And this old guy approached him, didn't know him, didn't anything. And he said to him, Sergio, it's time to tell your story. What is that all about? We hear things like that from time to time where an anomalous stranger will say something to someone about their personal life. And it's always intriguing, like, well, wait a minute. How do they know that? Are they tapped into that? How does that all work? And it seemed like this was a profound moment for him. What did you guys think he thought about that encounter with this guy, I suppose?
00:16:16
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's very connected and in tune. He feels vibrations and frequencies.
00:16:23
Speaker 5: And as Esteban would say, he doesn't believe in coincidence anymore. So he really believes everything is kind of intentional or leads us. to the next, you know, the next phase of consciousness or, you know, awareness.
00:16:39
Speaker 4: Is that what made him share the story with you so openly is because that guy told him, look, it's time to share your stories.
00:16:45
Speaker 5: So we connected with Michael Strickland, who originally drum scanned the photo, who put us in contact with Esteban Carranza, who's a lawyer and in the film. And Esteban is a longtime friend of Sergio. So Esteban connected us with Sergio.
00:16:59
Speaker 4: I'm asking if Sergio told you and shared his stories with you because of this encounter with the guy that told him it's time to go share your stories.
00:17:10
Speaker 7: I think that was part of it, but also he's, he's in his eighties now and he's at that point in life where, uh, I think regardless of that incident, he's ready to kind of start sharing, sharing his, his experiences with people. But I think that definitely helped, uh, Inform him that, you know, now.
00:17:30
Speaker 6: Is the time.
00:17:31
Speaker 7: And so he really feels comfortable sharing, sharing those stories now.
00:17:38
Speaker 5: And I think he had such trust in Esteban. And then he when we chatted with him, he felt like the vibe was right. I wish we had a better answer.
00:17:48
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:17:49
Speaker 4: And then your girlfriend also has seen these ships, at least as she had encounters with E.T. as well.
00:17:57
Speaker 5: She's seen the ships, but not the ETs that she knows of personally.
00:18:02
Speaker 4: And does she feel that that they are definitely like extraterrestrial.
00:18:06
Speaker 5: Or off world or? Yeah, she's a believer.
00:18:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, she believes.
00:18:10
Speaker 7: And, you know, there's no real way to do like chemical analysis on the ships or anything like that or tell you exactly where they're from. But they definitely have a profound effect on the people that see them and encounter them.
00:18:22
Speaker 4: It seems that way. And it seems like Sergio really took this to heart. Like this was a life-changing moment. He seems very overjoyed that you guys were there, that he's almost kind of kept this to himself his whole life. And now all of a sudden he gets to get it out there. Is that the vibe you guys got?
00:18:38
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think he was very excited to be able to share that. And when we first started communicating with him, like I said, Megan and him would text back and forth and they would talk more about family and, uh, relationships and life and those sorts of things. So like they really got to know each other on, on a personal level before we ever went down and shot a frame of film. So by the time we got down there, it already kind of felt like we had a small little family in Costa Rica that, you know, we, we became instant friends with and, uh, still to this day, share stories back and forth. And, sharing each other's successes. And we've been WhatsAppping with Sergio, and he's excited to see the film come out. And he feels like it's a great way to kind of leave something for his family and future generations.
00:19:34
Speaker 4: Absolutely. It's great that we're getting this all documented. While he's still alive, you're capturing his first-person account, which is always very important. When we come back, we're going to ask you guys about another important player in the story that you just mentioned, Esteban. who's a Costa Rican attorney who also happens to be a UFO researcher. And he's the guy that put together this high-res version, digital version of this photo. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM, Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Adam and Megan about the Cote photo. So this guy Esteban gets involved because it turns out that his uncle, Herman Copper, is had an original 8x10 negative that he obtained directly from National Geographic Institute of Costa Rico, which he then passed down to Esteban.
00:20:33
Speaker 6: In the 90s.
00:20:34
Speaker 4: Because of this, years later, his interest grew in UFOs, and in 2022, he gets a contact copy of the original negative and makes a high-res digital copy, which is the most detailed digital scan of this image ever that's publicly available. When I print something here, I use 200 dpi. I think he did, was it 11,000 dpi for this photo? Tell us about that.
00:21:00
Speaker 7: Well, Esteban is a very curious mind. As you mentioned, he's a lawyer by day and a researcher by night. When he was younger, his uncle, who lived in Florida at the time, when he would visit, showed Esteban just a picture of the actual disk, and it captivated Esteban, and he was always kind of curious about it. And when his uncle passed away, his aunt knew that Esteban was curious very into the topic and would be the perfect person to receive his uncle's research material. And so he got the research material just expecting to see a copy of the small photograph that his uncle took of it. And lo and behold, there was this large 23 by 23 centimeter contact negative of the actual photo.
00:21:53
Speaker 6: And that's very, very rare.
00:21:56
Speaker 7: Uh, so he didn't quite know what to do with it at first, but you know, he wanted to follow in his uncle's footsteps. And so he sent it off to liberal Kansas of all places to have it scanned using a Tango drum scanner. And a Tango drum scanner is the height of analog to digital digital replication. So it's an archival quality, uh, scanner that is this highly specialized piece of equipment.
00:22:29
Speaker 6: And yeah, so they, they, we.
00:22:32
Speaker 7: Went and scanned the negative, uh, at 11,000 DPI, which is, which is massive. You know, it's, uh, it's this very high resolution piece of photography to begin with, but then, um, you know, it's 23 by 23 centimeters, which is huge. And the disc itself is 0.42 centimeters on it. So it's a, you know, small little fraction of the actual negative. But using the Tango drum scanner, we were able to get a really close, detailed look of the object itself.
00:23:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really awesome. And you've made it available now, right? People can download this photo themselves, right?
00:23:10
Speaker 6: For free.
00:23:12
Speaker 4: For free.
00:23:14
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like you have to put this on the site at this. information should be free and disseminated to the public. He's like, everyone should have access to this to be able to make their own opinion.
00:23:25
Speaker 4: Absolutely. And I understand that at the time, I think you guys mentioned that J. Allen Hynek had an opportunity to look at this photo as well. Do you know what his reaction was?
00:23:35
Speaker 6: You know, he.
00:23:38
Speaker 6: He was a fan of the photo.
00:23:40
Speaker 7: He did some research into it.
00:23:43
Speaker 6: But Dr.
00:23:45
Speaker 7: Richard Haynes and Dr. Jack Vallee did a much more comprehensive study analysis of it. And so we don't have a report to point to like we do with Haynes and Vallee that J. Allen Hynek did. But he's famous in UFO circles for his research. We're from Michigan, so there's the swamp gas sightings of the 60s. He kind of changed his mind over time, it seems like, from a skeptic to a believer. So I don't want to put words in J. Allen Hynek's mouth, but he did have a chance to research the photo.
00:24:26
Speaker 4: What was the conclusion from the report that Vallée and Haynes actually did when they analyzed it?
00:24:32
Speaker 7: They determined that it was an anomalous object on the film and that the film wasn't tampered. They stopped short of saying it's non-human or making any specific claims about what exactly it is, but they did all sorts of analyses with the shadows and the lights and looked into all the aspects of the camera and the flight paths, and they determined that there is an unidentifiable object on that film. Like I said, they stopped short of making claims, but they say that it's really there.
00:25:13
Speaker 4: Well, that's the important thing that it is, in fact, an object and it's there. There are other people out there who have alleged that it could be a piece of dust under the film or possibly, as you mentioned, a water droplet because of the way the shadow is. The shadow sort of opposite is the direction of the shadows on the other pieces. So some people are thinking it could be water. Have you seen any other scrutiny of the photo?
00:25:37
Speaker 7: You know, there's all sorts of people who said it's a hubcap or somebody threw something from the plane.
00:25:43
Speaker 5: And Sergio said if it was a piece of dust or something had gotten into the camera, the camera would not have fired. I mean, this is a government camera that weighs 100 pounds. It's the height of technology. It's highly specialized. This isn't like a little, you know, that you're just out and about with.
00:25:59
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a special cartographic camera that has characteristics. Like she said, if there's a particle of dust in between.
00:26:04
Speaker 5: Or water.
00:26:06
Speaker 6: Then the camera just wouldn't fire.
00:26:08
Speaker 5: And it would have been on the other frames as well. So some people do say a hobcat must have flown off the plane. We're like, no, it wasn't a hobcat.
00:26:17
Speaker 4: I understand that. As far as great and clear as this photo clearly is, The problem still lies is that we don't know how far away the photo was. I believe they calculated it would be, if it was on the ground, it would be about 80 to 84 meters across, which is huge because they were at 10,000 feet. So that would give us an object of 80 to 84 meters. But we don't know how far that was. If it was really close to the lens, it would be tiny, right?
00:26:47
Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't really, one of the mysteries about the photo is exactly how high the object was. We know it was under the plane at 10,000 feet. But other than that, we can't really tell you it was at 5,000 feet or 8,000 feet. So those would have big implications on the actual size of the craft. But we do know from the scale of the photograph, which is 1 in 20,000, that it's kind of like saying one centimeter equals 200 meters. And if you do the math there, it's 84 meters in diameter, which is huge. But there's no real way to tell you exactly how high the object was when it was captured.
00:27:34
Speaker 4: Has there been any other modern analysis done on this? I know we had the Valet report years ago, and then... He made this high res version in 2022 to digitize the film. Has there been other modern things done that you know of?
00:27:48
Speaker 5: It's been in the, it's in the Cometa report, which is the French admirals in general say the most likely explanation is the extraterrestrial hypothesis, meaning that extraterrestrials are the most likely explanation of.
00:28:03
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:28:03
Speaker 7: And there's, there's, there's been plenty of people who have taken the photo and analyzed it and talked about the shadows. And there's a lot of, a lot of people who went really deep into this photo and talked about all the sort, all the aspects of it. And people have been reaching out to us after we kind of released the movie and are saying like, here, check out my report. And some of them are like very detailed and, So we we definitely encourage.
00:28:35
Speaker 4: Own reports on this photo.
00:28:37
Speaker 6: It's a captivating photo.
00:28:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome. So today it's actually still available. You can actually go down there and see it. Is that true?
00:28:49
Speaker 7: It's it's still in the archives of the National Geographic Institute of Costa Rica, and they've certified copies of the photo and. It's sort of a point of national pride in Costa Rica.
00:29:01
Speaker 6: Like people.
00:29:02
Speaker 4: Does the government take a position on it? Do they did they have a statement about it?
00:29:07
Speaker 7: They acknowledge that it's a real photograph, but they don't state what they believe it to be. But they also they're very open that it's a real photograph and that that it's not fraudulent.
00:29:20
Speaker 6: Right.
00:29:20
Speaker 4: I mean, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's alien in nature. It could be a human advanced technology or whatever. We don't know. But that's cool that they at least acknowledge it. I think that's wonderful. Okay, when we come back, we're going to ask you guys if there are any reports at the time the picture was taken back in 1971 of UAPs or UFOs in that area. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with Adam and Megan about this Cote photo, which is incredible. Did you guys look to see if there were any UFO reports in that area around that time in 1971 that maybe was similar to this object?
00:30:12
Speaker 7: I can't point to a specific case in the early 70s other than this one, but there is all sorts of oral tradition and people that we've talked to have had encounters themselves. Emmy, who we interview for part of the documentary, her husband David had an experience in 1971 where where he was living in Turin, Italy, and he was abducted in 1971, which led him to the Arenal region where Lake Cote is.
00:30:44
Speaker 5: And he's like, I've seen this all before. And Emmy, similarly, they're both Italian, but in different parts of Italy. And she was so drawn to Costa Rica, she meditated instantly when she's there. She's like, I touched his arm. And my whole body was electrified. And I think they moved in with each other like a week later. There's just something unexplainable.
00:31:05
Speaker 4: It is incredible the amount of coincidence or you could almost say synchronicity on some of these things. That's just incredible. The fact that that guy's uncle happened to get this photograph. The fact that it was 1971 when this guy had his thing. 1971 was the date of the photograph. The fact that he meets this guy randomly in the woods who says, tell your story. The fact that your friend showed you this photo that neither of you have ever seen. I mean, a lot of things had to happen for this film to kind of come together. You must feel sort of guided almost, don't you?
00:31:37
Speaker 6: Yeah, it pulled us in. We didn't choose it. It chose us. And We're filmmakers.
00:31:42
Speaker 7: I make commercials for a living, but it was at a time and it came up at a time in my life, in our lives, where we wanted to do a project that was fun and interesting and that we were interested in versus just making another car commercial. So it really guided us in. We made our first phone call to Michael Strickland, who was the drum scan technician, and then He's like, oh, yeah, you got to talk to Esteban. And then from there, it just kind of snowballed. And it had a way of drawing us into the topic. When we started, we didn't know if it was going to be a short film or a feature like documentary. And we didn't know what it was going to be. But every turn, you know, something kind of opened its doors for us.
00:32:26
Speaker 6: And it's been an amazing journey. I love it.
00:32:29
Speaker 4: That's wonderful. You also have Leslie Keen in the film, which is wonderful. Why does she consider this photograph to be so significant compared to the thousands of other alleged UFO photos?
00:32:40
Speaker 7: Well, she talks about one of the beautiful aspects is that you're looking down on the photograph, which is really unique. You know, it's a different perspective. And, you know, most photographs are looking up at something. This is looking.
00:32:54
Speaker 6: Down on it.
00:32:55
Speaker 7: And its clarity is amazing. It's so detailed.
00:33:00
Speaker 5: And the chain of command is really important to her as well.
00:33:04
Speaker 7: She can follow the chain of custody back to the Costa Rican government. That's very important to her. And she was a great partner to interview throughout.
00:33:14
Speaker 6: All of this.
00:33:14
Speaker 7: And she helped us a lot with kind of understanding the photo and the history of the photo. And she was just an amazing person to talk to.
00:33:22
Speaker 4: I think it's wonderful to get her for this film because she's obviously been a very important part of this community for years. She did the 2017 article in the New York Times that's changed everything for all of us. So it's wonderful to see that. And I agree. I mean, I can't I was trying to think when I saw the film. If there's another picture I've seen, there's been a few out of aircraft, of course. Pilots have taken photos and things, but never straight down like that, that I can recall. Maybe there's one or two out there, but I don't recall one to my mind. Usually they're taken out the plane window or whatever. Most of them, as you know, are taken from the ground looking up, of course. When do we get that? perspective of straight down what a unique circumstance feels like even that's another one of these synchronicities what are the odds within that 13 seconds because the frame before and the frame after have nothing on it and that one frame who knows how fast it was going who knows what the velocity any any of that was we got lucky and he caught that on that frame.
00:34:25
Speaker 7: And it's been an amazing point of interest ever since. You know, Leslie first came across the photo on the cover of the Cometa report. She was one of the first people in the States to get that report. And a reporter friend asked her, you know, do you want to do something with this? And that was her very first intro introduction into the UFO topic. So it was with her from the very beginning of her career. And somehow it's, still there 25 years later. It's been part of Sergio's life for 55 years now. And yeah, it's touched the lives of a lot of people.
00:35:01
Speaker 4: This is one of those stories where it really does feel like everything's interconnected. Look at how that all works. Well, I think it was 99 she saw this photo the first time. I think it was back in the 90s, actually. And now, look, she changed the world in 2017. So it's interesting how all of these things occur. I feel, you know, almost like there's a plan there. OK, what was the single biggest discovery that you guys made while you were producing this documentary that changed your understanding of the photograph and the incident for you?
00:35:31
Speaker 7: For me, the most interesting part about all of it was kind of the human experience around it. Getting to talk to Sergio, learning about his experiences, getting to meet Esteban and following on his journey of discovery. He hasn't seen one himself, but his question is, why not me? He's always been really interested in the topic and just following along his journey and meeting Emi. Emi is such a beautiful person and You know, they have this little Italian themed alien themed restaurant in the middle of Costa Rica. And so I think really the most interesting part of it all was getting to know the people around the story.
00:36:14
Speaker 4: Is that what you think, Megan? Or do you have another take that you also felt?
00:36:18
Speaker 5: No, I agree. I think that I mean, we've all seen at this point the articles, the videos, the photos. And I think for me, it's like, OK, what does this mean for us? They're here, whether or not, you know, I think they're here anyways. So it's like, what does this mean for us? Like, what do they mean for our lives and our interaction? And I think that's the next chapter. Do you think.
00:36:36
Speaker 4: This documentary made you guys more believers than you were before, perhaps?
00:36:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a very open person, but, you know, 100% believe. What about you, Adam?
00:36:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I've always had an interest in the topic and I've always had a belief in it, but just kind of being drawn into this experience with it, you know, it really kind of solidified in my mind that, you know, there's something bigger out there and we're just a small part of this universe. There's so much more to be discovered and thought about and looked at and discussed. So, yeah, it makes me feel connected to the subject a lot more than I ever was.
00:37:17
Speaker 6: And it really amped up that belief.
00:37:20
Speaker 4: So at the end of the day, after all this research and meeting all these different people and getting to know Sergio and going down to Costa Rica, what do you guys think is on that film?
00:37:30
Speaker 6: A flying saucer.
00:37:32
Speaker 7: You know, I don't know whether it's interdimensional or from outer space or from under the water, but I do know that there's a physical object on this piece of film.
00:37:44
Speaker 4: Yes, but do you think it could be a human-made structure is what my question really is.
00:37:48
Speaker 5: I mean, 1971 was pre-cell phone, pre-internet. I mean, not even cassette tapes were out. I don't think that any government had the capacity to do that kind of engineering back then.
00:37:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would tend to agree with that.
00:38:01
Speaker 5: It was pre-cable TV. It was very.
00:38:04
Speaker 7: There weren't drones flying around delivering packages to people.
00:38:07
Speaker 6: Oh, I get it.
00:38:09
Speaker 4: I just, there are people that believe that, you know, our aerospace industry is 30, 40 years ahead of where we are today. You know, I've heard from some of these things where by the time you see a plane, it's already kind of retired as far as they're concerned because they don't let it out because they keep it so private. So I wonder if you thought that could be it. You're pretty convinced it's.
00:38:30
Speaker 7: Well, it's, you know, this is a remote part of Costa Rica. And in 1971, it was even much more remote. The idea that it's, you know, an advanced government craft really kind of.
00:38:42
Speaker 5: With no base, no.
00:38:45
Speaker 7: Yeah, it doesn't really make too much sense to me. So it's a very interesting artifact. It's amazing that it was captured on this one piece of film. And it's worth taking a look at it under a microscope and seeing what it has to offer. So that's why we kind of made it available so people can go and look at it and see it for themselves.
00:39:06
Speaker 4: I agree. I think it's wonderful. And the fact that all these little pieces fit together so well make it even that much more interesting. It's very well done, and I wish you guys all the luck with the film. Thank you for sharing with us today. It was very insightful. You guys can find the film at thecotephoto.com, which is C-O-T-E photo dot com. Also, please check out Ancient Mysteries Conference at edgarcasey.org. I'm going to be there. It's going to be an incredible event. You can get $ 50 off if you use Beyond 50. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at CITD underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contactinthedesert.com. Stay open-minded.
00:39:44
Speaker 8: And rational as we explore the unknown right here on iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
00:40:02
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going to iHeartRadio.com.
