Are New Policies Needed to Fix Holes Mickens Exposed?

WEBVTT
00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:05.839
I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:07.759
I'm not asking you to hide anything.
00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:08.080
Yeah.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:09.519
No, put it out there.
00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:10.640
Let the people see it.
00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:14.000
I've never not worked in a hostile working department.
00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:17.600
You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face.
00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:18.320
Zach.
00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:19.519
That's a hard question.
00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:21.120
I have no answer for it.
00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.160
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:26.719
This is Between the Headlines.
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:43.520
This week on Between the Headlines, COO of Columbus Jamie Garrett is suspended for three days for misconduct, and the bid procurement process may be changed in the City of Columbus in the wake of the Mickens indictment.
00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:47.759
Also, the new city budget process introduced by Mr.
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.119
Jason Spears looks like it may happen.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:01:01.200
And an interview today that you don't want to miss with Keith Gaskin and Bruce Hansen regarding MUW, MSMS, and the IHL board.
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:02.240
But first.
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:07.200
Retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:13.519
For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives.
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:19.040
Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you.
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.159
Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:23.760
We plan retirement.
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:26.959
Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor.
00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:33.359
This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi.
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:38.480
That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you.
00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:43.359
They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community.
00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:45.920
At Bank First, we're more than bankers.
00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:47.120
We're your neighbors.
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:56.560
Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most.
00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:01.760
Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit bankfirstfs.com to learn more.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:08.639
Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing lender, Bank NMLS 454063.
00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:10.479
Good Thursday morning, Mr.
00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:11.039
Zach.
00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.759
You guys are listening to Between the Headlines.
00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:14.080
Mr.
00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:21.199
Zach Player here is our managing editor of the Commercial Dispatch and as always host of Between the Headlines.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.120
And my name is Dave Chisholm.
00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:26.319
A lot of things have happened in the past two weeks.
00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.080
We've got the Mickins indictment, and we've had the fallout from that.
00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:42.319
And I tell you, it's just been um what's the word, a roller coaster ride in terms of things you might expect to happen and then things that actually happen.
00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:51.439
And and first and foremost, um I guess we'll talk about Jamie Garrett and her suspension, at least what we know about it anyway.
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:59.280
I seriously doubt that that is related even remotely to uh to the Joseph Mickens indictment, just to be clear.
00:02:59.520 --> 00:02:59.759
Yeah.
00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:17.919
But um no, the uh they had a work session uh Wednesday, uh executive session of the work session, they come out, and uh a member of the administrative team, an administrative staff member, uh suspended for three days for misconduct.
00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:22.479
Now, of course, they don't name the person uh coming out of executive session.
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:31.280
They don't talk about the discussion in executive session, but you know learned throughout the day, heard through the grapevine, who was Jamie Garrett.
00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:35.680
Uh called Jamie, she confirmed that it was her.
00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:43.919
And her only words were Well, her only on-the-record words were um uh it is true, and I did my job.
00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:50.800
So I did my job, that immediately makes you say, okay, it wasn't she was in the broom closet doing something gross.
00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:52.080
Sure, sure, sure.
00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.680
And uh there's there's several things that this says to me, if you look at all of the layers of it.
00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:04.560
Is one, uh a three-day suspension is that's meant to be a corrective measure.
00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:10.240
That's not one of these deals where they're trying to give her the message to start looking for another job.
00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:23.600
This is this is this seems to me, and this you know, opinions are those of the speaker, uh, this seems to me to be something that's like, Jamie, we're fine with you on the whole.
00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:33.519
We don't like this particular thing that you did, don't do that again, and just for for uh tangible consequences, you're gonna have to go without pay for three days.
00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:45.439
So I don't think that this is a the beginning of a push-out uh of Jamie Garrett or the or some sort of revelation that the council is overall unhappy with her.
00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:57.040
I think there was an instance where they believed that maybe she overstepped or did something that was out of, you know, did something that was outside of her purview.
00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:05.199
And um they wanted to correct that and let her know we we really don't want you to do that.
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:49.199
Um and Jamie's response to that, honestly, seems like I mean, clearly she d isn't in agreement with uh that particular standpoint from the council because her quote I did my job uh sounds to me like she felt and I don't know, you know, again, I I don't know all the details here, but that quote makes it sound like she very much thought that she was within her right to do what she did and not not doing something nefarious off to the side here for her own purposes, but she felt like she was doing something that was one of her job duties, and the council said, don't do it that way.
00:05:49.680 --> 00:06:00.319
Well, and it comes on the heels of that rant by CFO Jim Brigham, which makes you think there might be some kind of a shakeup going on down there.
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:01.920
I mean I don't know.
00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:17.360
Yeah, like to to to the point that I was making, I don't think that that's a I I think that you've got a council that is trying to make sure things are done a certain way, whether you agree with that way all the way or not, uh notwithstanding.
00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:23.279
And I think that this was them saying to her, here's a corrective measure.
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.639
Now, I will say a couple of points of fact.
00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:34.720
I mean, she's just had a baby and she's working from home instead of being on maternity leave.
00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.680
So and that's that is common knowledge.
00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:43.279
That's that's those are things that they've discussed openly at council meetings uh for what that's worth.
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:51.839
But um Well, you had mentioned doing things the right way, and that brings us to point on this bid procurement process.
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.439
Um real quick, the math on it.
00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:06.480
It used to be, or I guess currently is by state law that you have to have a uh on a$75,000 or more project, it has to be sealed bids.
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.199
Sealed bids, confidentials submitted, and then have an opening, all of that stuff.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:11.439
Yeah.
00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.920
And I had no idea the number was that high for it to have to be a sealed bid.
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.160
I was thinking it would have been way lower for that.
00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:28.399
But regardless, in the wake of the Mickins indictment, the city council seems to be like, you know what, we should probably lower that amount to uh keep things in check.
00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:28.639
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.240
Well, and I mean let's the city council has not voted on this yet.
00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:35.279
They've discussed it, um, they're considering it.
00:07:35.360 --> 00:08:03.839
But this was a presentation, this was brought forward by the administration, um, endorsed by the mayor, um, and uh city attorney Jeff Turnage drafted this ordinance, and uh essentially what it would do is it would require, it would lower the uh so right now, between 5,000 and$74,999, you go and you get a couple of quotes, or you get quotes until you get the right one.
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.399
You don't have to have uh you don't have to do that in a sealed confidential way.
00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:17.439
You can just go get the quotes, present the quotes, and here they are, and um and then go do the job.
00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:22.480
If it's under$5,000, you can just go and say, hey, you do you want this?
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:23.439
Can you do it?
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:25.360
Can you do it for less than$5,000?
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:27.199
Okay, when can you have it done?
00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:33.360
And there doesn't have to be any quote process or competitive process involved with that at all.
00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:38.720
And to be clear, you're still not allowed to rig the bid.
00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:46.159
You're still not allowed to go to a competitor or a friend and say, hey, I'm gonna go bid$18,900.
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:47.759
You need to bid 18.
00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.720
Well, yes, I you're you're not supposed to do that.
00:08:52.879 --> 00:09:04.399
But um But now when you're getting quotes, when you're just getting quotes and those quotes aren't sealed and you're getting them in sort of disparate ways, you're just going, you're calling people, hey, what's your quote?
00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.320
Write it down, what's your quote, write it down.
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:13.200
And then you're telling people, well, I've got this quote, this quote, that still doesn't that's that's still higher than what we've got budgeted for this.
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.120
Let me go get some more quotes, which is kind of how that's then going on.
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:20.159
It's not secret.
00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:23.919
And so there's two things that uh Mr.
00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.159
Turnage is trying to accomplish uh with this ordinance change.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:44.879
And the first is to make it to make it a secret bidding process um up to the$74,999 uh instead of just going and getting quotes and it not being a sealed process in any way.
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:57.519
Um the other thing he's wanting to do is lower the that$5,000 threshold uh to where you can just go say, hey you, what can you do this for?
00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.600
All right, do it Thursday.
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:13.679
Um he's wanting to lower that down to$1,000 for construction and uh non-professional services and to$3,000 for like commodities and and and things of that nature.
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:14.399
Yeah.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:22.240
And it's hard to disagree with that because four thousand bucks when there's a single bidder, that adds up in a hurry.
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.879
That can be a chunk of taxpayer change.
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:47.840
Well, and I mean some of it, the price, it I mean, it just costs what it costs, but government is not known for creating competition, and it's got to be there for us to, you know, well there's there's there's there are there are things you don't want, and let's uh obviously start with what the with the loop that this uh ordinance is attempting to close.
00:10:48.240 --> 00:11:02.159
You don't want bid rigging, and you don't want people who are uh you don't want people in city government essentially insider trading on uh city jobs like Mickens has allegedly done.
00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:10.639
And you don't want contractors just bidding ridiculously high because they know that they can and they're the only guy out there that's gonna do the job.
00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:11.600
You've got that.
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:20.399
And then you also don't want somebody bidding ridiculously low because they, you know, it's the only work they can get because they do shoddy work.
00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:20.799
Yeah.
00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.159
And they're they're shady contractors, as it were.
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:33.840
Now, how much of that is out there, I don't know, but that is something that um that is something that was discussed yesterday as one of the things this is trying to fix.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.879
Nathan Katona had some stuff to say about that.
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.320
Uh and he's the and he's the building department director.
00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:48.559
Um obviously you don't want to make it so stringent to where uh good contractors don't bother.
00:11:48.879 --> 00:12:03.360
So one of the th one of the things that they're trying to do with this, and again it hasn't passed yet, but one of the things that they're trying to do with this is instead of it being just a you can submit a sealed paper bid under this ordinance.
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:04.399
But you don't have to.
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:11.759
There'll also be a secure electronic way that you could that you could submit uh a secret uh bid as well.
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:24.480
Um the work would then be vetted, permitted and inspected by the building department, uh depending on if it if it's some of the if it's construction or contracting.
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.840
And if you don't complete the scope of work, you just don't get paid.
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:28.399
Yep.
00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.679
I mean if you get if you can't pass inspection, you don't get a check.
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.440
That's that's that's how that works.
00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:42.879
But um so I think that there's a lot of uh you know, in principle there are a lot of good things in place there.
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:51.679
But uh, you know, Rusty Green I think has a point in the lowering of the threshold down to a thousand dollars.
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:58.559
Um who are you gonna get to go to too much trouble for a thirty five hundred dollar job?
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:02.879
Yeah, it might bottleneck the prices a little bit.
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:17.840
And you know, I think that that's a good point and one that they would need to hash out, but uh uh you know, that job that uh in the indictment that Mickens is accused of rigging, that was an$18,000 job.
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:24.399
That was a quote qualifier that wasn't a sealed bid, that what it didn't have to have sealed bids for that.
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:37.120
And I think that those are the types of jobs that if you're if you're gonna be nefarious, that five to seventy-four, nine ninety-nine, that's that's your ticket for being nefarious.
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:49.519
And so it I think that the city could have very easily, and I have seen the city of Columbus do in the past things like, well, that wasn't me, so this isn't my problem anymore.
00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:54.879
Why would you uh well that was Mickens or that was this person, that was Milton.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:56.879
That wasn't the city.
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:05.440
That wasn't d you know, when I'm saying Milton, I mean Milton Raw, the uh uh former CFO that was uh imprisoned for embezzlement.
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:11.919
That was Milton, that was Mickins, that was this person, that was this wasn't the city proper, and it certainly wasn't me.
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:19.519
That could have easily been Jones's position, that certainly could have been Tarnage's position, and that could have been the position of everybody on this council.
00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:33.200
But I think it speaks well of the city and specifically the administration that they saw this issue and said, We need to do something to plug that hole.
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:42.320
Yeah, you could look at it and you could say that it's reactionary, uh, which it is, but this is not just reactionary, uh, it's proactive.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:50.960
But but they're gonna have to stay proactive because I tell you what, if somebody wants to do it the wrong way, they will find a workaround.
00:14:51.440 --> 00:15:12.879
They'll look at these and they'll say, you know what, let's take this project and instead of it being a$15,000 project, let's split it up into three phases, which by the way, Jeff, if you're listening, you need to work it into the language of this ordinance so that they cannot willingly take a$15,000 project and make it into three little pieces of$5,000.
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.840
You know what I'm saying?
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:17.360
But you've got to be transparent and you've got to be vigilant, no question.
00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:18.080
Right.
00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:33.919
Uh and I think that if you if you think that this ordinance goes too hard, maybe that is true, but I do respect the effort of trying to do something and not just sitting there and saying, well, they got Mickins, that's good.
00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:35.919
So uh business as usual.
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:49.279
I think that I I think them taking the responsibility and the accountability to try to uh keep that from happening again is uh speaks speaks well of that speaks well of the effort.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.559
Whether this is the vehicle, I think remains to be seen.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:03.360
The council may uh continue to uh massage this a little bit or get Jeff to, but uh I I I I applaud the effort and I applaud where it's coming from.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.600
Sounds like a good day.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:17.200
And um the um the bid process may see some change, but not only that, the budgeting process looks like it also may see some change.
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:27.279
And and I tell you what, this to me is absolutely wild because Jason Spears project looked to me absolutely dead in the water.
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:28.639
Same old crap.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.440
Um here comes uh the high priest, Mr.
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.480
Jim Brigham, to to give his rant on.
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:39.120
And so I can't help but wonder, all right, first off, this thing passed, right?
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:39.679
Okay.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:40.879
This document passed.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:41.440
Did it?
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:44.960
So let's let's talk about what this actually is and what has actually happened.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:45.440
Okay.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.279
Uh it's a it's a budget outlook document.
00:16:49.919 --> 00:17:12.079
Um it it speaks to things like retiring debt, it speaks to things like you know, generating alternative revenue, it it it's it's it's things like that where they're looking at what do we do right now, what are our next steps, and as we are budgeting, we're using this sort of as our handbook for our priorities.
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:19.119
Yeah, uh and a model, and it's the same document that was put out there last week, both for Facebook and for the council.
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:20.000
Right, right.
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.640
So the public has had an opportunity to see this.
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.799
Uh the council has seen it.
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.519
Um we had Mr.
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:38.720
Spears in last Thursday, two days after he tried to present it for passage, and uh it was essentially tabled, and there was a a lot of rigma roll about it.
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.440
Well, it was at the ass end of the meeting for starters.
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:42.880
Yeah, well, there's that.
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:47.519
Um and everybody was tired by them because that was a particularly long meeting.
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:55.519
But um it was at the end of the work session agenda yesterday, and he brought it back up unamended.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.960
Um said, I've talked to Jim.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.279
Jim said nothing.
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:14.000
Well, and very perfunctory, unanimous uh approval to um adopt that as the budget outlook guiding document.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:15.519
My mind is blown.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:23.440
You're t you're telling me that Jason Spears took a dove to the high priest, offered it unto him, and he blessed it.
00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:27.039
And then I don't think that that's necessarily true.
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.559
I all I said was that Jim didn't say anything.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.200
I didn't say that Jim blessed it.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:35.680
I didn't know.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:44.400
Regardless, somehow, Jason, your sins be forgiven the and that the council looks at and and and just I guess comes to the epiphany.
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:45.920
This is a damn good document.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.480
Let's do it.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:51.759
I don't I don't know if I I don't know if I agree with that assessment of the situation.
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:58.880
All I am saying is that Jim didn't argue and the council approved it unanimously.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:12.400
Well, there's also hang on, there's the other possibility that that with his soliloquy that he went into, that he kind of um pissed in the whiskey, muffled some feathers.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:18.240
I mean, they're like, maybe there were some folks who said, I don't think we're gonna deal with that.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.480
Let's let's look into this despite the complaint that was rendered.
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:23.279
Maybe.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:34.559
To whatever extent he has he convinced his uh uh he did the thing that I was skeptical that he could do.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:47.920
And um and I think he was telling us last week that he'd already done it, uh, which was get the uh consensus that he needed, or at least the majority that he needed, but this was a unanimous vote.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.039
They adopted it.
00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.400
Um You know, this just one more thought on that.
00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:17.119
It just blows my mind because when you texted me and said that that document had passed unanimous, I was thinking it was like some Babylon B article, or it was like almost like the Saturday night live skit where the president of Mexico back in 2016 brings the check in to help Trump pay for the wall, and it's just a bunch of winning.
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.200
I'm like, no, Columbus doesn't win on that caliber.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:35.279
I mean, we try to win, but we shoot ourselves in the foot, and you're telling me within a week, amendments um or um reconciliation has been made, and despite all the drama, good things are happening for the friendly city.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.200
Again, let's talk about what this document is.
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:51.359
Document is a plan, it's a guide, it's a it's it's it's it's a guiding sort of document for hey, when we're making our budget, let's look at these priorities and plug these priorities in.
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:56.319
Let's talk about what has and hasn't happened with the budget proper.
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.319
One, they have set the tax rate.
00:20:58.480 --> 00:20:59.680
They did that last week.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.920
If you live in the city limits, your city taxes and your city school taxes are not going up.
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:08.640
Don't know what the county is gonna do yet, but you know, if if history we've got an idea.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:13.519
If history is any indicator of future events, that that may be a different answer.
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.680
But your city taxes aren't going up and your city school taxes aren't going up.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:23.359
Um so they're up and they're and they're gonna try to operate under the parameters of a balanced budget.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:28.319
So uh and and and those are all good things.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:40.400
Now, how much of this guiding document that they passed is actually gonna be applied to the budget document that has not yet been passed, that won't be passed for a little later yet.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:46.000
So the way that that process works is they set the millage, which they did and it didn't change.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:51.039
And now within that millage that they have set, they're gonna form a budget.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:56.720
And then they'll pass that budget um before September fifteenth by September 15th.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:04.480
In the meantime, they've got this document that That they have passed to say, okay, as we're doing our budget, we're going to look at this.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:09.359
We're going to allegedly apply it in some measure.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.039
That hasn't been defined as to what measure they're going to apply it.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:22.319
And let's remember even Jason himself, I'm not certainly not trying to throw dirt on Jason, but this is a very I th I think that this is a very good point.
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:32.000
This council and city council's past have not always been the best at applying their own rules to situations.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:41.440
Jason himself had the council push the council to implement a moratorium on uh city sponsorships of walk-up events.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:42.640
Yeah, that thing.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:43.359
Right.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:49.279
Four times they lifted that moratorium and he made the motion to lift the moratorium.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:55.759
So how many times are we going to look at this document and say, well, yeah, that's our guiding document.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.160
Yeah, especially if it's not binding.
00:22:58.559 --> 00:22:58.720
Right.
00:22:59.039 --> 00:22:59.200
Yeah.
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:02.160
So it could end up a lot like the Ten Commandments are with us.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:05.200
Yeah, that's a problem for sure.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:10.160
Well, I tell you, on the surface, this looks like fantastic news.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.480
We just gotta be intentional as a city.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:12.960
Right.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:13.759
And that's my point.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:24.240
And and if if they are intentional and if they in good faith just um and and look, uh I know Jason, Jason's not trying to even really take the credit for this document.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:30.640
You know, he gathered the stuff that made its way into that document from all of the sources, Jim Brigham included.
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:36.240
And so I think if they'll stick with it, we'll see good things happen in the friendly city.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:37.839
You mentioned the balanced budget.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:38.880
Right.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:39.279
Yeah.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:41.599
Like I'm I'm super stoked about this.
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.200
I'm very optimistic.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.319
We'll see what happens.
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:50.720
Also that thing about alternative revenue sources, you know, the the optional uh sales tax.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:51.680
That's a neat thing.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:57.680
And by the way, uh we have on our community podcast um Facebook group.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.640
If you haven't checked that out, check it out and please join us.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:05.519
Uh but we have some exclusive content of part of the interview with Jason Spear.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:12.000
Very lengthy interview with Jason last week, and it didn't all make the uh uh episode edit cut.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:20.319
But he he gets deep into the sausage about how that's yeah, we've got uh that's a good way to put it.
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:26.000
We encourage you to uh if you're interested in that sort of thing, go take it a listen on our Facebook group page.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.240
At this time, we are pleased to welcome into Catfish Alley Studio Mr.
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.519
Keith Gaskin, former mayor of Columbus, and Mr.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:43.519
Bruce Hanson, who is a former lawmaker and for today's purposes the chair of the Citizens Coalition for MUW and MSMS.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:45.839
Welcome both fellas to the show today.
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.440
Well, thanks for the kind invitation.
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:50.240
Thank you, Keith, for jumping in on me.
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.559
And uh and anyway, uh good to be with you.
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:52.880
Thank you.
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.759
And Keith is also a member of this coalition.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:56.160
Yeah.
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:56.799
Yes.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.079
Yes, Keith is.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:05.119
So well let's just start with uh why the coalition exists and what you guys are up to right now.
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:24.240
Well, the the reason that we felt it was important to bring an organization like this together is because of what we have been facing for multiple years now with uh the the possibility of merging or closing the W and moving uh MSMS.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:29.920
And you know, this is not something that's just happened in 2024.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.960
It's happened 20 years ago, it's happened before that.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.680
It's something that cycles through periodically.
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:53.680
And what we have found, uh, and I reached out to Bruce and a couple of others when we were talking about this, and we worked on the committee before that was formed in 24 that worked on campus with the uh administration there for at both institutions, um, and Jim Davidson did as well.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:26:06.640
You know, this comes out from the legislature every now and then, but they never come out opening with, we have done studies, this is how it's gonna save money, this is how it's gonna improve education in Mississippi.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.079
It's just uh we think eight are too many.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:13.920
And that's basically what we hear without any real true justifications.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:14.799
Would you agree, Bruce?
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.920
I I would agree, and your talk about 20 years ago actually was 30 years ago or more.
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:38.240
And uh uh just to get as an anecdotal thing, uh my deskmate Ronnie Robertson and uh Johnny Juncan, uh Ronnie was from Greenville, I'm Greenwood and and uh Johnny was from uh from Natchez, both served on the appropriations committee in the legislature, and they leaned over to me.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:39.599
They're my deskmates.
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:45.839
If anybody knows the layout of the of the legislature, there's we s we sent three or four to a to a table.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:52.400
And they leaned over to me and they said that we're gonna we're gonna take the W out of the appropriations today.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:54.720
That was ten minutes to four.
00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:09.359
And uh my my role at that point in time was uh the speaker would always recognize me and say uh the gentleman from Lowndes and I would I would move that we we would dispense with the reading of the minutes in an introduction of bills.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:15.039
That was a it was a thing to keep us from having to bog ourselves down into you know minutiae.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:24.720
And the next thing coming up would be because of the appro the way the process would work, appropriations would be first on the on the on the list of things that come up.
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:32.480
So between ten minutes to four and fifteen minutes after four, I had to come up with a speech about don't close the W.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.240
He just lobbed a bomb out there out of the blue.
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:37.200
Absolutely.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.000
And so uh well they had obviously had discussed it.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.480
For sure.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.039
Uh in the in the appropriation committee process.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:28:01.279
But uh so the whole point was that uh we we had uh we had a deal with that, and it was it was because uh obviously the IHL had really been uh muddling about about it, kicked it to the legislature, so to speak, or punt it is one of the words I used while I was there that day.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:14.799
That uh uh in it obviously we were talking about uh the same thing dealing with Mississippi Valley State, which was part of the prop uh part of the problem or part of the solution as they were as they were making their uh their case about it.
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:20.720
Uh uh Delta State was kind of like let's let's m let's merge Delta State and Mississippi Valley State.
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.839
Let's do something with Alcohol, maybe put it with Jackson State.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.680
I mean, there this was the kind of things that were going on in that process.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:34.400
And the IHL simply said, well, we just can't do anything about that, so let's let's let's let's let the legislature take care of it.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:36.880
And so that was the process that we that we dealt with.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:38.799
So But the speech must have worked.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:39.920
It did.
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:40.720
It did.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:58.079
Uh Charlie Capps, who was chairman of appropriations at the time, said that stood at the podium and said he never knew there was a thousand uh alumni uh from the W that from that were from England, much less the forty thousand other people that sent him letters uh during that period of time.
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:03.359
So so that came off the table very quickly, uh, which was the right thing to do at the time.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.400
So we're now we're back to that same question once again.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:13.920
That that uh the people are trying to talk about saving money or merging institutions and things of that nature.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:21.359
And as Keith has pointed out correctly, there's no viable studies that indicate that this this might be the process we need to follow.
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:26.400
That they just simply say, well, let's let's see what we can do about that and then throw it out there.
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:35.279
So you guys, y'all came together, wrote out a a very well-stated uh endorsement for Dr.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.000
Doris Taylor to be the new president of the W.
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.400
Hand delivers that to IHL.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.759
Was that you, Bruce?
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.039
No, Jim Davidson actually delivered that.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:54.000
Uh Judge Davidson was the one we asked Jim, he was going to Jackson that day anyway, or the day before, actually, because of personal business.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.039
So he said he volunteered to take it personally to them.
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:01.680
Well, as far as his report back, what did they just take it and say thank you?
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.720
We'll take it under advisement, or was there any feedback?
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:09.920
What was the response from IHL to you guys for the effort that y'all put in?
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:18.799
Well, he said that uh I think it's Sewell who we met with who's over public relations, and he called in advance to make sure we were uh doing it the right way.
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:24.720
And as everybody should know, uh the IHL uh does allow for people to make nominations.
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.240
Uh and they have their and their selection process is very broad.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:31.119
I mean, they they're it's evidently very long.
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:31.839
Yes.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.319
And so he said that uh Mr.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.440
Sewell was uh very, very nice.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:46.000
Um uh Jim being a good judge and an attorney had a document for him to sign that he had received the uh uh the nomination.
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:51.359
Uh but he didn't get a lot of, you know, direction on what the next steps were going to be.
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:56.000
Um they're pretty tight-lipped about that right now as far as where they are in the process.
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.240
But he said that, you know, and I think he's tried to uh as of yesterday we were talking to him.
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.119
He was trying to follow up with him and had not heard back.
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:09.920
Uh we do know that I think they're uh going to have a retreat on the 28th, which is is that today or tomorrow?
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:10.720
It's tomorrow, I believe.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.720
And then we think that just and this is second-hand information, it's not directly from the IHL board.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:23.839
And then at their next meeting in September, hopefully there will be something about the pro the W search process.
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:26.319
Now he did say, he did say to Jim too, Mr.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:38.799
Sewell did, that he would get the nomination into uh the uh the person that's in charge of the search, which is but we don't have any confirmation.
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:43.599
Teresa Hubbard, I believe, is is the one that's uh chairing the search.
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.079
Uh but that's basically all that he got.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:53.680
As stakeholders in this community and people who are advocates for MUW, uh Norah Miller announced she was going to retire.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:54.880
She announced that in January.
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:56.160
January 5th.
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:04.880
Why have there not why is the application process not even really open yet for her replacement here nine months hence?
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:05.119
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:10.240
Well, because they have You know, I mean it's all speculation because they've not been forthcoming with it.
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:14.720
And that's what happens uh when you're not forthcoming with information, people begin to speculate.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:23.599
Trevor Burrus And that speculation breeds a lot of um confusion and worry on the part of people around here and elsewhere.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:26.880
You had mentioned uh an IHL retreat earlier.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:28.880
Is that gonna involve cigars?
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.240
I mean, are they going to uh uh I've never attended, but Bruce, you might know.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:33.039
Are they open?
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.119
I mean, they ought to be.
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:42.799
Well, I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure that wherever wherever they go, there might be some local uh uh you know people welcoming wherever they are.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.759
Normally they have met on the coast in the past.
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:49.839
Uh and uh I don't know where they I don't know where that meeting is going to take place.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:33:09.759
Uh and it usually it's it's done on a regular basis, uh, you know, in their defense, that uh you know it's done on a regular basis and and they do you know get themselves away from normal wear and tear, you know, everyday stuff so that they can begin to concentrate on where they're where they ought to go.
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:16.480
Uh so uh and uh you're try you're talking about a a slow moving process that they that they follow.
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:17.839
And they have been doing that for years.
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:19.759
So it's like a slow moving process.
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:24.880
Well, a slow moving process is very different from a process that we delayed starting for nine years.
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:26.799
Yeah, this is glacial.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:27.200
Yeah.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:42.640
I know IHL has has been very adamant on the record about no, we want to protect all eight of our universities.
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:53.279
Uh you know, when this merger thing came up last time and you know they were they were very clear on we'll do what the legislature tells us to do, but we support eight universities.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:34:12.719
Do you feel like this is a situation where the IHL is instead of acting maybe independently, they're waiting on Delbert or uh Dabar or any any number of other people to tell them, okay, this is what you're going to do and when you're going to do it.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:17.760
Or do you think that they're actually acting as an independent body in this particular question?
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:23.599
I I see no evidence at this point in time that that they're they're working in coalition with each other.
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:36.320
I I I think that there is there's an independent uh effort on in the legislative side of the equation that we've seen where they're they've begun discussing the merger of school districts as an example.
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:41.920
Uh there's been some rumors about merging uh community college districts.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:43.519
That was another discussion.
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.679
So yes, uh there's there's that legislative side of things.
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:57.840
Uh on the but on the other side, the the the IHL, uh I don't uh there's no uh information that we have that says that they're connected in any way at this point in time.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:03.199
Uh it's so so we're hearing kind of like what we heard 30 years ago in that sense of the word.
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.039
Yeah, I would like to think that there's not.
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:11.119
I mean, they're members of the uh IHL board, you know, we have uh local folks that are on that board.
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:13.519
Uh Greg Rader has been a friend for years.
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:18.719
Um uh Ste Charlie Stevenson is actually I'm related to by marriage.
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:19.840
He and my wife are cousins.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.440
He Charlie grew up coming to Columbus, they grew up together.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:35.760
Um and and I've talked to both of them, not since this has happened, but before when I was mayor about when in 24 when all this was happening about the W and uh MSMS.
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.039
And, you know, they, you know, Charlie's mother graduated from the W.
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:41.679
You know, obviously Greg is from here.
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:49.360
Um they they s they were very supportive of the W and MSMS here, but in their role as IHL board members, they can't speak out.
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:53.679
But they're also both, you know, very well connected to Mississippi State.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.119
They they're both supporters of uh elected officials.
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:02.400
So there's, you know, there's all that which causes people to question even people they know well.
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:08.559
I'm trying for us to stay away from that, calling names or pointing at them in any way because their job is difficult.
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:09.760
It is very difficult.
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:20.159
But they also know that they the IHL board has been criticized many times about the selections they've made as university presidents and the processes that they've used.
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:28.480
That's why it is confusing to me, and and and I will be, you know, uh full disclosure here, you know, I've I'm a big proponent of being transparent.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:38.800
I have texted those two gentlemen and said when we nominated Doris that all I asked was them for them to please give her serious consideration.
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:43.119
And I I didn't text again, they didn't respond to me, I didn't expect them to.
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:49.760
I I if I was on the IL IHL board and he had they had I wouldn't have responded to that text either, probably.
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:56.800
But um so I don't want us because we don't want to and there are some people that are very upset with the IHL board, but we don't want to cast anything.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.639
What we're doing is not to call them out or to make them look bad.
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:11.519
What we're trying to do is to make sure they are clear that you know they are on the board from elected officials appointed them who citizens elected.
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:19.840
And choosing a university president has a major impact on our town, our county, our state, the region.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:20.880
Of course, yeah.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:25.920
And so the citizens, I feel like we should have more information.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:32.880
And so we're trying to take all the proper steps and not call out or embarrass anybody in this process.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:34.639
Our that is not our goal.
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:46.000
Uh our goal is to make sure that our community is aware of the importance of this university for our community and MSMS, the importance that they have in our community.
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:48.000
We've got the data to back it up.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:53.920
Uh the W just received more national recognition, rated higher than any other university in the state.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:57.760
Um and so these are the things that the let you never hear from the legislature.
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:05.519
And when they keep this cloud over the W and MSMS, it holds them back and it needs to stop.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:14.960
Well, and and to piggyback off of that, uh, the cloud over the W that is very clearly there in their future, what happens there.
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:31.440
Are you surprised, uh, I guess at all that even with that going on, you've got at least on paper two pretty solid uh drafteed uh interested parties in the presidency.
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:43.280
I mean, you would you would think that if if if that was a if if that was considered a toxic asset, that there wouldn't be super qualified people wanting to leave it.
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:45.840
I mean, they should have sent us a thank you for the nomination.
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:47.199
I would think so too.
00:38:48.000 --> 00:39:07.360
Well, jokingly aside, that you're correct, uh uh Zach, that uh uh even regardless of whether it was one or the other uh in turn in terms of it, we the the idea is to to remove that cloud and say we've been sitting here since January the fifth.
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:11.679
Uh we have we have a really important university in our system.
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.239
We need leadership at this time.
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:17.760
Uh I I I'd hate to bring this up at at this point in time.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.440
My my wife was was Dr.
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:20.800
Hogar's secretary.
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.360
And then when he when he retired, she was Dr.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.719
Strobel's secretary.
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:31.840
I saw some real leadership during that period of time, you know, because my I was I was connected in that sense to the W.
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:38.480
My sons grew up in the uh uh the child development lab uh on on campus.
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.320
So so we were connected that way.
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:46.079
And then along came Clyde Arent, another you know, big, you know, personality.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:47.519
Personality, right?
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:53.280
Uh with all the warts and everything else that people have at that at that level of uh leadership.
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:59.280
But you know, in between you've had these valleys of of nothing going on.
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:06.719
And uh and we had of course we did have Nora and she and she she's done a commendable job with with it, there's no question about it.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:10.719
But it's time to remove all that stuff and say, let's move forward with it.
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:13.119
And and that that's why we we took the steps.
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:14.719
We said, let's go.
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.159
We've we've got somebody.
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:21.119
We've the we have a person you can measure a standard against as far as uh leadership.
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:23.519
And then the other person is uh Absolutely.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.519
Uh former Yeah, absolutely.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:38.239
She she is she is a she's a highly qualified person and and has you know has has the uh I think the the the uh things that that that she should have to to to be a leader in the in in the in the university.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:43.039
I don't know about her academic background, but and I know more about but she has.
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.719
I haven't met her and haven't talked to her alive like I've talked to uh Dr.
00:40:46.800 --> 00:41:03.679
Taylor, but but I'm I'm I'm you know we have a couple of really, really primary candidates that that uh and the idea is this is let's move forward, let's take the take away that issue and let's let's let's let the W thrive which like it ought to thrive in our community.
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:05.440
And I'm looking at it from that perspective.
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.039
But you know, I look at it when I was attacked back 30 years ago.
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:10.960
I'm tired of that.
00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:11.920
That's what I'm saying.
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:16.079
That's why I I came to this group because they have would you help us out?
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:16.719
Yes.
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.119
Uh I'm I'm I want to do something about this.
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.119
It's maybe the I'm 84 years old.
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.920
This may be the last thing I do in life.
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:27.280
But my point is let's do it.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:28.239
Let's get it done.
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:29.840
I'm I'm I'm tired about that.
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:34.239
I'm tired about messing with the MSMS, and it's time for us to fix that problem.
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:35.119
Mr.
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:38.880
Hanson, with all due respect, if you had come in here and told me you were 60, I'd have believed.
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:39.920
I know, right?
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:51.440
But uh but you have speaking of the fact and uh and y'all were talking you're talking about uh uh Sally Doty being well qualified on paper.
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:55.199
Um you her name was put out there first.
00:41:56.559 --> 00:42:00.159
Y'all's um coalition backed somebody else.
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:02.480
What was that process like and why that decision?
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.679
Well, I'd like to because Sally's a friend of mine.
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.480
Um and so is Scott, the interim president.
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:10.559
I've known both of them longer than I've known Dr.
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:11.360
Taylor.
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:20.400
Uh and Sally and I have talked uh a couple times and and exchanged uh lots of text messages during this process.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:29.840
And um, you know, her name came out uh uh at the talking sessions when the IHL board specifically said they didn't want to hear specific names.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:34.800
So uh there was folks that felt like it was important for her name to come out.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:39.360
And, you know, we had talked about her before Nora when Nor after Nora announced.
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:44.239
I mean, she was obviously somebody that would be a strong candidate to be president.
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:46.079
And I like her very much.
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:54.239
Um what I ha have said to her is that um I think she could be a very good president for the W.
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:57.840
And I appreciate everything she's done for the W.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:02.159
I know she's worked hard in Jackson in the past for the W, and I know she would as president.
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:08.239
I said you will you would be a very good president, and we would this organization would back you 110 percent.
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:11.039
She's been invited to come and talk to us and visit with us.
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:17.119
I said, the difference is, I said, I strongly believe with everything in me that Dr.
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:23.440
Taylor would be a transformational president, and that's what the W needs.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:29.840
That's what the state needs, that's what Columbus and Lowndes County needs, and that's definitely what MSMS needs.
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:31.840
Transformational into what?
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.719
I mean, I mean, look at her you've looked at her resume or you've at least looked at it.
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:39.920
I mean, transformational leadership when they come in.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:46.960
Um I mean, I think some people, a lot of the presidents at universities, I think the current president of Mississippi State would love to say he's a transformational president.
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:50.719
You look at all the the growth, he's got lots of power in Jackson now.
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.440
I mean, he's he came in with lots of connections.
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:55.519
But transformational, I mean, Dr.
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.719
Taylor has a Rolodex that nobody in this State has.
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:08.000
She has inter She was named by Time magazine as one of the most 100 impressive people in the world.
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:13.039
Does that not tell you that she has a brain that could do things that make it transformational?
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:19.840
I mean, the woman is is I mean, doing things that nobody else has done and she was told she couldn't do.
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:22.239
She has a clear plan for the W.
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:24.559
She was interested in the job when Nora got it.
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:32.159
But that process moved in a way which they made her the interim and then named her that she didn't have an opportunity to apply.
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:39.119
So when I heard that, I mean, I almost fell out of my chair because I didn't have any idea she'd be interested.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:46.000
For her to come back to her hometown, I mean, if she is named, just watch the attention.
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:51.840
There's even a a a s a smaller sample of this transformational leadership.
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:52.239
Dr.
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:52.800
Dr.
00:44:52.880 --> 00:45:02.320
Strobel, uh in in co in coordination with uh Governor William Winter at the time, started the governor's school at the W.
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:04.079
And it still exists right now.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.360
It's still going on, it's still touching teenagers around the state.
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:11.119
Uh and it started with a couple of local people involved.
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:16.719
Uh late uh uh Bud Sanderson from Sanderson Plumbing was one of the people involved in it.
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:21.679
Larry Tiner, who was working at Warehouser at the time, another person that was involved in it.
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:26.559
Uh and I know another person, but I won't mention his name, uh, that was involved in it as well.
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:31.199
And and we created the governor's school here in in at the W.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:42.480
Transformational leadership, a small step to to to to give a different perspective and bringing and at the same time create a pipeline for students to come to the W.
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:48.639
And and I get exactly what you're saying, but I want to share with you and then turn it into a question here.
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:53.920
I mean, I've gotten a dozen calls, had several conversations about this issue.
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.960
I'm sure you have.
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:56.159
And wait.
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:16.639
Sally Dodie's political connections, her her knowing where the bodies are buried and and all of the things in the Capitol, and just having that skill set and those connections makes her a better choice short term right now.
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:27.519
And uh Doris Taylor as a transformational long longer term leader, uh, had one friend of mine put it, uh Sally Doty today, and then Doris Taylor to the moon.
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:28.400
So let me answer.
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:29.360
So what say you about that?
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.280
Let me answer this question this way.
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.000
Uh does anybody know a man named Jack Freeman?
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:34.960
He was Dr.
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.800
Hogarth's number one guy.
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:36.960
Yeah.
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.239
And he had the connections with the legislature.
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:42.480
And so therefore, when when Dr.
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:47.840
Hogarth needed something, Jack Jack Freeman was the guy that helped solve that problem for him.
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.639
He worked for Dr.
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:49.119
Dr.
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:49.519
Dr.
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:50.719
Hogarth at the time.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:52.159
So, in other words, Dr.
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:59.760
Hogarth did not have a direct connection with the legislature, but he had somebody that worked for him that did that very same thing.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:06.880
So you don't necessarily need to have somebody that d knows everything about everybody, but you do you have to have somebody that's right.
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:13.599
And my answer to that, too, is if if she's not selected, would then Sally not still fight for the W down there?
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.800
Could she still not use those same connections in a way?
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:17.679
Uh who knows?
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.599
She might become part of the team with them.
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:22.480
I mean, uh, you know, she and Doris are friends.
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:22.639
Right.
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.159
They've had good conversations.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.880
I think that the the political connection is a tad bit short-sighted.
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:35.599
Uh I mean, we we Jackson is um supermajority Republican, and they don't get along.
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:37.119
Do they?
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:37.679
No.
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:38.400
Okay.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:43.760
So so when you're down there in those fights like that, you know, what can happen?
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:54.000
I mean, I you know, again, I'm not gonna say anything negative about Sally because I know her heart is in this, but I've heard that same argument and I don't buy it.
00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:04.239
We've got this this mystery, okay, and it seems like every time the IHL board comes out with a decision, it's been made.
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:05.199
It's final.
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.280
And I think that's where the angst comes from, is because we haven't had the updates.
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:14.639
And I know you don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but but how do we pull information out of them?
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:16.320
Are they afraid of the alumni?
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:18.559
Are they afraid of the internet mobs?
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:20.559
I just don't know where it comes from.
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:26.159
No, they they do operate on a model, and uh you go back to what the you know, square one.
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:32.400
This is kind of like how we always do it, and that's you have to i in the defense of of the IHL.
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:41.119
I again I I hate to be uh you know in in in into being argumentative about the f the facts that they do they do move slowly.
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:42.159
They they really do.
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:50.320
And and I've I've known this long before I was in the legislature, even I've I've I've had uh bumped up against them when I was a student.
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:59.039
So I I I know the the way that they they they very slowly move along and and they they take their time making the decisions.
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:15.679
And obviously there's there's this this tug of war between the the various big universities, and then there's a tug of war of all the rest of us little children that are out there, and and so it's it's it's that kind of uh argument that has gone on over the years.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:26.960
And at at this stage of the game, who can say that that one university is more ascendant this time in the on the board than the other universities may be ascendant at another time?
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:33.760
So so that plays into the into the argument they all have to be sweet to each other and all that kind of thing.
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:38.079
I think that uh I remember Speaker Newman always saying, Y'all be sweet now, boys.
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:39.360
Yeah, be sweet.
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:41.679
We'd be argumentative too.
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:49.119
And and so so the idea is that uh uh you you've you've got to work within the context of that's the way they do things.
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:58.639
Uh at the same time, we think strongly that with a little bit of effort on our part that we could kind of nudge them a little bit toward thinking in in these in these terms.
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:04.559
And perhaps they'll they'll they'll think to themselves, now, well, you know, it's it is time to do that right now.
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:17.360
The legislature's coming up on a session next year in which they're they it's not to say that they're a do-nothing group, but very little gets done during the the election year in the in the legislature.
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.800
So it that process will probably slow down a little bit.
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:27.119
So there'll be some some rather good thinking about what what will have to go along the way.
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:38.480
So so how do we how do we move this process in such a way that that we we kind of circumvent some of those those the the inertia to remain in place, so to speak, at this time.
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.000
And that's that's the intent.
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:46.639
First of all, to to bump the W and MSMS into the thinking and say that's what we need to we need to address.
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:53.599
The W needs to have the leadership necessary, and by default, then MSMS gets gets that same help.
00:50:53.840 --> 00:51:00.480
The second thing is if we can find somebody who can to be the leader to do it, we we think we found DORS.
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.519
However, we don't think so, you know, we we're not saying Sally Doty is not the person either.
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:10.639
The point is we need we we've got some very fine candidates, so let's make our decision.
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:12.800
Let's begin to think through that process.
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:15.360
Let's not just slow it up.
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:17.599
Uh you know, let's let's do something with it.
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.880
You know, everybody doesn't want to go to a comprehensive university.
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:26.159
Everybody doesn't learn well at one of the big three schools or the big two and and then Southern Miss.
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:33.440
Um but they they thrive better in schools, regional schools like we have now.
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:35.760
They it's the evidence is there.
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:36.559
You can prove it.
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:46.800
We watched the last IHL board meeting, and you know, there's a you know, one of the things that they did, they didn't mention the W except they recognized Scott, which was very nice, and they should have done that.
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:55.920
But they um I think it was Alcorn and O Miss are partnering on an economic center at Alcorn on economic development.
00:51:56.079 --> 00:52:04.559
And and one of the board members said, I'm look I love seeing this type of interaction between the q the colleges and and they're not competing, but they're working together.
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:06.639
And that's what we should be doing, building synergy.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:11.119
We should be finding out if these other schools are struggling in some way, how can we lift them up?
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:13.679
And one of the ways that people could do is to donate to them.
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:14.880
That's one of the things I've talked about.
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:16.000
It's not just the legislature.
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:20.159
These universities are state-located, they are not state supported anymore.
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:30.800
And one of the things that people need to start doing at the W is giving to the W Foundation and giving to the MSMS Foundation because the legislators look at how many private how much private support they give.
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:44.719
So, I mean, it's it's got to be a culmination of a lot of these things, which this that's the main reason for this group is just to try to help remind people that we've got to we've got to embrace them and not just when it's an issue like this, but all the time.
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:48.559
I mean, we need to always be thinking of ways to help the help it grow.
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:50.079
Thank you for listening.
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.280
To between the headlines, our special guests today have been Mr.
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:54.800
Keith Gaskin and Mr.
00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:55.840
Bruce Hanson.
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:58.159
Zach, three things to know.
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.760
Number one, the Regions Bank Building downtown is under contract.
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:09.599
The 40,000 square foot building at 710 Main Street has been on the market for a while with an asking price of around$1.6 million.
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:19.280
Once the sale closes, the bank will continue to lease its current first floor location, but that leaves 30,000 square feet on the upper floors for development.
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:34.000
Similar to a 2021 effort, he wants to include city and county leaders as well as members of the public to identify ways to make the city safer.
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:36.880
An interest meeting is being scheduled in the coming weeks.
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:44.320
Number three, Dolly Parton, the country music icon and transformational philanthropist, died Tuesday at age 80.
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:53.519
In 1995, Parton launched an early childhood literacy program, which has since distributed more than 300 million books to children worldwide.
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:59.599
In 2014, a Lowndes County affiliate of the program was founded with seed money from the dispatch.
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:08.880
Lownds County Imagination Library has provided nearly 180,000 books to about 5,200 local children over the past 12 years.
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.239
Studies show the program boosts early literacy skills.
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:18.639
Parton said she created it as a tribute to her father, who struggled with illiteracy.
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:21.840
Her vision will continue to impact early childhood literacy.
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:25.199
For details, visit loungeil.org.
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:27.039
Reach out to us.
00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:29.119
Tips at cdispatch.com.
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:34.800
You can also follow me on Facebook or X at Dchishm Double Zero and leave a public comment.
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:39.280
Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus.
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:42.480
Your host has been Zach Plair, and I am David Chisholm.
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:44.320
Y'all stay friendly out there.
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:48.800
I'm just a simple old country boy, but um I think that makes sense.
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:51.679
I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:54.960
You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David.
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:56.480
That's what old people do.
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:05.679
That is Peter Rimes, publisher of The Dispatch.
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:10.239
One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom.
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:21.760
Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government, and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners.
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:27.920
The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity, and our reporting will always reflect that.