WEBVTT
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Now I even do keynotes and presentations, but inside I'm still thinking, I'm a fifth grade teacher.
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Why am I talking to these people?
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Hi, it's me, your teacher-turned CTIO friend, Diane Dirsch.
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And this is Beneath the Water.
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Hi there.
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I'm here today with Dr.
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Tim Clark.
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And I remember uh when I first met you, it was years ago at the RTM conference.
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Uh, and I had just become the CTIO, I do believe, of Green Bay Area Public Schools.
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And I was very new to, you know, what is it like to be in a larger school district?
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I was director of technology in a smaller school school district, but what does a large school district look like?
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And I recall um, you know, hanging out with you because you're a friendly guy, hanging out with you, uh, having dinner uh with you and and Jeff, taking pictures of my food because I had never had such fancy food at a conference before.
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Um and learning a lot from you.
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Uh because at that time I do believe you were a practitioner in a school district, and and we'll hear about your career in a in a minute.
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But I thought, you know, I need to learn from this person because he's been in a larger school district.
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I'm now moving to a larger school district, and this person is smart.
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I had read some things online uh that you had authored, and I thought, yep, yep, I'm gonna follow him.
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So I recall that's how I met you.
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What do you remember about our meeting?
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So uh, well, first of all, I remember us sitting down and actually, I think it was like breakfast, and the sun was shining.
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It was like an outdoor meal.
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So I remember, and we're in California, and I lived in Georgia, so I was really excited to be all the way on the West Coast uh for this conference.
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But I remember sitting at the table next to you, and you just have this great energy.
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So that's what I remember.
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Like I felt very much at ease and like I could talk to you, and I'm a little shy.
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So you were outgoing and we just really clicked because you, you know, I we were able to really have a great conversation about what we're doing in our different roles.
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And yeah, I was at a district that I thought was kind of on the small side.
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It had about 40,000 kids, but now I realize it's actually uh a pretty big school district in comparison, but it's part of the metro Atlanta area, so I was comparing it to all of the districts around us, so I never thought about how big the district was in comparison to the rest of the country.
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Um, but yeah, so that's that's what I remember.
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I remember us having just a really easy conversation with lots of positive energy.
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I love that part.
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I love that part.
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And you know, I think I get those vibes from people sometimes that maybe they don't feel as comfortable or at ease.
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And so I do.
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I I like to draw people in, have conversations, ask about what you do and all those things because those things are so important.
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And I realize it might not be as easy for some people to just like talk.
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So I'm I'm happy that I was able to um, you know, just start that relationship.
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And look at this is a relationship that we've had for years because of it.
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I feel like we all have grown up together, you know, in this ed tech space.
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Well, could you tell us a bit about your career?
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How'd you start and where are you now?
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So I started out as a teacher, and I do think, I do think in my heart I still feel like a teacher.
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Um, and I started in uh Chattanooga, that's where I grew up, and I went to university there, and they had a great magnet school, and I was really fortunate to be assigned there as a student teacher, and then they opened up a sister school.
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What was your subject area or were you Janet?
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Well, actually, I started out as secondary English, and I was because I liked writing.
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So that's why I wanted to be an English teacher.
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I really liked writing.
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And I had an uncle in Canada who was an English teacher, and he seemed to have a very good lifestyle for his family.
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And um, I loved reading and I loved writing, so I thought I would become a teacher too.
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But there's this whole thing about working with kids, which I didn't really think about.
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And that means I was a good writer and reader, though.
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And then I went to go and do the student teaching part where, you know, we had a high school placement and uh and uh elementary and a middle school placement.
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So I was secondary at English, and I realized I don't really like high schools though.
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Like I don't, I'm not interested in all of the clubs and activities.
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And when I would go to um interview for positions, instead of asking me about writing or English, they usually asked me what sport did I want to coach.
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Sure, sure.
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And I was thinking, well, I I could do yearbook, and yeah, I don't think that qualifies as a sport.
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Um but so I and back in those days it was harder to get teaching jobs, I think, than it is now.
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Right.
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So the first job I I ended up substituting for the first part of the year, and then somebody left the position in the middle of the year.
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So the first job I got as a teacher was as um elementary gifted.
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Oh, wow.
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I wasn't even certified for that.
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Right, right.
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So I realized though, there was so much energy and fun at the elementary school.
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Oh and so I actually picked up my elementary certification, my gifted certification, and I taught elementary gifted for about three years.
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And then I went to a magnet school where I taught um third grade and fourth grade uh and fifth grade for six years.
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Can you imagine yourself as an elementary teacher at all?
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No, I never even thought about it.
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I never thought about it, but I loved it.
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And I loved it.
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It became like a really hard habit to break.
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Uh I really liked it.
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And I met my wife, and she's a pediatrician, so we had that child kind of like work experience in common, but she really afforded this habit I had of teaching uh for our household.
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And and to like nice things, right?
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Right, exactly.
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So, but I always used technology, like from the very beginning.
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And for me, at the beginning, it was like Oregon Trail on the Apple III.
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Oh, I love Oregon Trail and Floppy Discs.
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And that was like high-tech use.
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Yeah, I mean, and in Tennessee, um, when I was teaching, uh, I think it was fourth grade at the time, they had the 21st century teacher initiative.
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I remember that.
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And I had they put like seven computers in my classroom, and we didn't have the internet yet, just the computers.
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And I also had, I mean, CD ROM was new.
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I hate to date myself, but like I was able to do like Arthur's Teacher's Trouble for the whole class and display it on a T.
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Carmen, San Diego on CD, yes.
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Right.
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So that's I mean, but we started like doing a lot of creative things too.
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I had a scanner, which it was amazing to me the first time I saw like something I scanned on a screen.
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I mean gosh, the print shop had come out.
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Yeah, my goodness.
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So all of that was new, and I just kind of um always be I quickly became known as the techie teacher.
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So you must have helped others with that as well.
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And I think that was the natural, I found myself explaining a lot about technology.
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Um, and then I uh my wife and I moved to Georgia and the Atlanta area, and I worked in uh the school district there, Marietta City Schools, and I taught fifth grade.
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Also, when I went to Marietta, I had a much more diverse population, and I realized it would be really interesting to pick up my ESOL certification.
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Wow.
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So I because at that school, and it was new to me at the time uh from growing up in Chattanooga, but it was new to me and Marietta that some mornings they would just buzz my classroom saying, Hey, you got a new student today.
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And I would get a student that completely would just speak Spanish or Portuguese.
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And sure.
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And I found that really intriguing.
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So, and my wife was Puerto Rican too.
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Oh.
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So we kind of had a Spanglish household.
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And so I really was excited about that ESOL.
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So I picked that up as a certification, and then I taught ESOL for a couple of years.
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We had to have this was a really exciting to me at the time, but we had to have the my ESOL students had to get so many hours of their ESOL programming.
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But I was at one school and they would bust the kids over to me from another school, and I would have a combined classroom of students from two different schools.
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Some of these students were as young as kindergarten and only speaking Spanish or Korean or you know, whatever language.
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But to get in my hours, we had to eat breakfast together in the school cafeteria.
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And so we would actually have breakfast together and we would the universal language.
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Yes.
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We would talk about food and teach each other words, and I would try to teach these little tiny kids about um, you know, English words for things, and and we would have conversation.
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So I I I love that too.
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And uh, I've always loved all of these experiences.
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Um and then I but I really wanted to use uh additional technology.
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I also taught at a private school for about five years, and it was in a multi-age classroom of fourth and fifth grade students and with a and with a uh co-teacher, and it was all in primary years program of the international baccalaureate, big units of study.
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Rigorous incorporating technology.
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Um, and I loved the school, but I really wanted an interactive whiteboard in my room because by now that was the new technology, and there was the school district that was very close to my house.
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Um, and so Forsyth County Schools in Georgia was known for being the first to put interactive whiteboards in every single classroom.
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And I thought I really want to go teach and do that position.
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So I um I did apply and I got hired to teach sixth and seventh grade gifted.
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So this was like a new age range for me.
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Yes.
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Sixth and seventh grade gifted social studies, which is world history.
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And then the week of pre-planning, I found out that the principal had reassigned me to teaching eighth grade gifted, which is Georgia Studies.
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And I didn't grow up in Georgia, I didn't take Georgia history, and they were gifted students.
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They could sit, they could call my bluff.
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And I um wow, I just did the school district, it was very advanced in technology, and I was the techie teacher, and we had the laptop carts, and they basically lived in my room.
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I would check them out from the media center, but there wasn't a lot of demand from anybody else.
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Yeah, I recall.
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And every project or every concept that I taught my students, we utilized technology.
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And to me, all of this has always been about creativity, collaboration, critical thinking, communication, the four C's that we talk about.
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I mean, I feel like if we all do that and focus there, we're going to have more effective technology use.
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Right.
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I did that with my eighth grade students, who was very well received.
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And then the next year I was offered um like four different positions in the district as an instructional technology specialist in a school.
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And so in that role, I was the coach.
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I was the that's when I realized how other teachers teach because that's how I saw other teachers in the um teaching.
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And my role was went to a brand new elementary school, and my role was to coach the teachers in the use of the technology tools and resources that we had.
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And um, and I loved that.
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And in a couple of years, I was then asked to go to the district office and I became the coordinator of instructional technology for Forsyth County Schools.
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Now, where did the doctorate part come in?
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So at that same time, okay, good, good point, good in the timeline.
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Um, at that point, I had begun my doctorate when I was the instructional technology specialist at Kennesaw State University in Georgia.
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And they had a new doctorate program where they had a um it was educational leadership, but with a focus or concentration in instructional technology in Kennesaw University.
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Uh Kennesaw State University is still a leader in instructional technology.
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And I um so as part of their, I think their second cohort, but I really applied myself and what I did for my dissertation study was the use of a learning management system in a fourth grade classroom.
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Wow.
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So it was That was very early.
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It was very early.
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So I was writing my dissertation study in like 2010 and the use of this learning management system.
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Um the energy happened.
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And my focus on that was how you could build a community of practice among your students with the use of the learning management system.
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Yes.
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So that, you know, really helped um, you know, a lot of my work, I guess, and and my and a lot of my focus.
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So um and then I and then I was you know at the the district office and we began implementing bring your own technology in Forsyth County, which now it's banned in many places.
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But at the time it was the it was the solution to the problem of this was during the recession.
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We didn't have the funds to go one-to-one.
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Um, and many students had their own devices that they wanted to use, and we just enabled um them to be able to do that in First Side.
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And I started blogging about it.
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Yes, and I think that's taking it full circle to where you started talking about this.
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I started blogging about and I think that's it when we were at the conference, it's like, you're the Dr.
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Tim Clark, the hashtag BYOT.
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Yeah, BYOT Network.
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Yes, yes.
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And I made and I did a Twitter chat about BYOT with some other people uh around the country, and we had pretty good attendance on the chat.
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Um, I did it every Thursday night for several years.
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Um and then and I and when I blogged, I also illustrated.
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So I I came full circle.
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All of that writing that I wanted to do.
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Finally, you can use it.
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I was using it.
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Um and and it just opened up a whole lot of experiences for me, I have to say.
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And I did get requests to go and speak about this.
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We started having BYOT tours of our district where people would come in from other districts to see as a model district.
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Um and out of that, uh, I then had the opportunity to um go and work for an ed tech provider.
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So I worked for Safari Montage for about five years.
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And part of it was just like being able to, I started meeting people like you, like uh from Wisconsin and you know, Jeff McCoy from Greenville and Charl Apshire from Louisiana.
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And it was like, I wanna, I want to have a greater impact.
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Yes.
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Um, yeah.
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So it was that feeling of connectivity of getting out of, you know, my bubble and like opening myself up to new things too.
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And I did that for about five years, and I had lots of experiences in other districts, and you know, I and I want to bring up the point too, because this is part of my career journey as well.
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Um, you know, learning management systems.
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We talked about that, and I am I always had that thought, how can we connect, you know, our learning management system to our student information system and all these other things?
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And then Safari Montage comes along, and I recall Tim Beekman coming to Green Bay because I was like, now how can we allow kids to have content that comes in and tie it interoperably to, you know, these systems.
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And he was one of the major influences on me and helping me think how we can create interoperability and allow data from one source of truth to go to all these other places and to come back again.
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And so, you know, I think your pieces of the puzzle with the learning management system and um, you know, technically how you made BYOD work and then come full circle, as you say, to influencing me about how we thought about connecting systems in Green Bay is is just amazing.
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And so I think as other leaders listen to this podcast, they're gonna say, hey, wait, that was this time in my career, you know, everyone will say that when we started thinking about data, moving safely to different systems.
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So I I appreciate you bringing up Safari Montage because it was the thinking within that circle that helped move me forward as a professional.
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Well, and and I'm glad that you said that.
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And Tim Beekman was a very um impressive person in the field of ed tech, and uh and he was part of the reason why I ended up going to Safari Montage as an employee because he was very convincing.
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And and in this journey too, early on, it was just more tech is good tech, more tech is better tech.
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And yes, it's it, and you know, we just wanted people to use it from the Oregon Trail and Carbon Sam, whereas Carbon San Diego and uh Arthur's teacher trouble, and yeah, it was just just usage, and I think, you know, those are things I learned along the way with some very good leadership along the way too, but realizing it's not all the same.
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Like it's not just about more tech, it's right, it's about the way you're using it.
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The way you talked about intention, using technology in every one of your projects with intention.
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And so it wasn't just like, you know, watch this YouTube thing unrelated.
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You know, it it was actual intention, it was creation.
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And so I'm so glad that you had that voice that was able to travel through Twitter and um and and your other um blogs and things because you influenced a whole bunch of people.
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That's awesome.
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That's nice to know.
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And and this inner interoperability was huge.
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So, and and for Scythe County to get the system to work, even with Bring Your Own Technology.
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We wanted students to be accessing resources that were appropriate and also effective and had impact on their learning experiences.
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So interoperability was a huge piece to that.
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You had to get through that, yes.
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And not with one standardized piece of equipment, you know, like a one-to-one program, because all tech directors love that when you can standardize, but to be able to be inclusive of all the different gadgets that kids brought in at that time.
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And now, of course, they're one-to-one and they have devices and all of that happened, you know.
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Um the great thing was there was a lot of work and thought that went into this much earlier than the pandemic.
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So that's right.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:48.240
So being able to have more of an interoperable digital ecosystem really put Forsyth ahead when it came to the pandemic, and then there was a shift to remote learning because they already, it had already happened in Georgia.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.039
We would have ice storms and our and Atlanta would shut down.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:00.640
So a lot of the districts around Metro Atlanta had moved to having some digital learning days if they needed to because of the weather.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:31.119
So the pandemic was, of course, magnifying that, but it um it happened that they were prepared because of, and a lot of it was interoperability and taking the time to curate resources in a learning object repository or in another location and having learning management systems and digital tools that were interoperable and using one ed tech IMAS global standards, uh such as OneRoster or LTI or Common Cartridge to be able to have all of our resources together.
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:43.519
But as a part of this work, and as I began learning about other districts and other places, a position opened up at Chicago Public Schools.
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:56.960
And under the leadership of Latanya McDade, she's um now uh superintendent um and at Prince George's uh at Prince William County in uh Virginia.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:08.799
And so I um uh great leadership, and they were realizing that in Chicago they had 550 schools and they all had a different curriculum.
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:09.119
Oh, okay.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:36.079
And they all had different resources, they all had different ed tech tools, they all it was very scattered, and they realized they needed to make sure they fill in gaps by having a high-quality curriculum that could be shared across the district to all teachers and students to make sure that at least it wasn't a requirement, but make sure that everybody at least had high quality instructional materials throughout the district.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.640
And so as part of that, interoperability became a huge piece of it.
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.559
And we, you know, focused on building it out to be a digital curriculum.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.519
This was in 2018, 2019 school year.
00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:50.000
So we started establishing it.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:50.400
Yes.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:55.920
I was hired in the position of uh executive director of curriculum instruction, digital learning.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.759
We put together the department, we procured the publisher.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.319
To design the curriculum and the resources and the systems to be able to deploy it uh district wide.
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.519
School district.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.240
Here you thought you were a small school district in Georgia.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:10.799
Yes.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.759
And then you realized you were a bigger fish than you thought.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:23.680
But then, like Chicago Public Schools, was it the how large is it on the scale of like a let's see, LA Unified?
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.519
So it had uh at the time 350,000 students.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.279
It was number three in size.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:30.559
I think it might be number four now.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:30.960
Uh-huh.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:32.160
Um to scale.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:33.599
And then right.
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:36.799
It was a very large procurement of resources.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:45.519
And what we included in all of our procurement requirements and contracts were um certifications with one ed tech.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.000
At the time, it was called IMS Global, but one ed tech standards for interoperability.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:57.680
And it was the only way that we felt like we would be able to scale the curriculum out to be district wide.
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.319
And I was there for a year.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:16.880
And the and commuting back and forth, I had an apartment in Chicago, but commuting from Atlanta to um Chicago every week and worked throughout all of the procurement and beginning the foundation of that.
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:23.279
And then toward the end of that year, a position was created and opened at IMS Global, One Ed Tech.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:24.799
I'll just call it One Ed Tech from now on.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.839
That's our new name.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:31.200
But it was um it opened up at One Ed Tech for the vice president of K-12 programs.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.200
So I applied for that position.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:48.799
And it really brought together all of this, these experiences because I really was engaged with interoperability at for Scythe County Schools, interoperability with Safari Montage, interoperability now with Chicago public schools.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:24:03.039
And so here was this whole other opportunity to help bring interoperability at a really a global scale because Winna Tech is a global nonprofit that is focused on the development and implementation of interoperability and privacy standards.
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.640
So I now had, I guess, a global impact and footprint.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.799
So that's that's that's incredible.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:11.839
And that's where you are.
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:13.279
And that's where I am right now.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:28.640
So again, going from someone who started out as a secondary English English and writing uh to teaching gifted, loving elementary, and now impacting the world.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.000
That's incredible.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:42.960
And we have ministries of education, like France, just put in legislation that they have to use providers there have to use LTI learning tools interoperability for connecting resources together.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:47.200
And part of it is not just the seamless ease of use, which is so important.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:49.279
I mean, I remember being the teacher doing it all by myself.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.640
Trying to get the stuff.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.799
I know we gotta get the stuff to our kids.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.359
There's now security in the use of the standards and in the movement of the data.
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:08.640
So being able to have LTI 1.3 to make sure it's more secure or one roster to protect that data from your student information system to other platforms.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.400
Um, it's really important.
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:32.160
And also our data privacy certification, um, where we've vetted over 13,000 applications to a data privacy uh rubric that's developed as a community and a community that involves higher ed, K-12 school districts, states, ministries of education, as well as the ed tech providers, all partnering together on interoperability.
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:44.640
And, you know, this is what I love too, is because this is the forethought that you had talked about very early on about being intentional uh about connections.
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:52.720
And I always believe that that solid infrastructure needs to take place before anything else can.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.039
And this is uh addresses that.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.720
We're gonna take a break for a moment and we'll move on to other things next.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:05.519
Hey, we're back.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:11.680
We're still talking about interoperability because this is where I get really jazzed too.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:39.680
And I I was saying to Tim on the break, I believe every educ um tech leader who has lived through this time can probably benchmark themselves on some of the things that you're talking about because um, you know, we were all struggling with that, and solutions came through with, you know, um safari montage and then the the standards and everything, and everything became easier because of it.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:45.920
You know, I think Tim, what has impressed me is that you talked about being a classroom teacher.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:27:00.559
And I love that you still say that you consider yourself a classroom teacher, but to hear you talk technically about things, I would think that, you know, you grew up in the technical world as well.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.160
What are your thoughts on that?
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:05.200
Well, I don't think that I'm technical at all.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.640
Like I feel like for me it's all about instruction.
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:18.160
So whenever I'm talking about this, I'm thinking about how I would use tools and resources in my classroom from a teacher perspective.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:23.759
Now I even do keynotes and presentations, but inside I'm still thinking, I'm a fifth grade teacher.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:25.440
Why am I talking to these people?
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.319
You know, it's like, but I that's what I that's how I feel.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:36.400
And even when I went to Chicago, I think what happened, I was able to talk about it from that teacher's perspective.
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:44.720
And they really wanted the teachers to have a great experience in their classrooms teaching with this digital curriculum.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:46.960
And curriculum that was also digital.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:52.240
It wasn't that the digital was the main part, it was the fact that was the way it was accessible.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.079
Yes, the only way, right?
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:54.319
Right.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.319
So, and also, you know, being that classroom teacher, you had built that credibility.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.960
I was always a skeptic when I was a teacher.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:09.759
When someone tried to come in and tell us how to teach, and they, you know, we ask, Well, have you been in the classroom?
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.559
Well, I was for one year, or I've never been a teacher.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.480
It's like, you know what?
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.000
I'm not gonna listen to you.
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:24.880
I've gotten a little better at it, but um, you know, that credibility I think is there, and also that ability to translate, I think is is something.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.160
So, what things from your past do you think?
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.440
And thank you for sharing the details.
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:36.319
Um, what things in your past cause you now to be the leader that you are?
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.960
Because oh my goodness, working with ministries, you are truly global.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:42.880
You're impacting the world.
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:52.640
Um and so I'm sure that you had to have carried something, you know, uh a trait or something from the past that appears with Dr.
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:53.759
Tim Clark now.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:29:00.880
I I think that probably the trait is just a sense of empathy.
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:01.519
Oh.
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:10.720
And that I can feel when I'm when people are talking to me that they're in a situation at their district, they're trying to make something work in their country.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:23.200
We just had Flanders in Belgium as a new member of One Ed Tech, they're doing an amazing job, but they're trying to set up a system where they would be make resources accessible throughout Flanders.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:23.839
Sure.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:27.839
And you've been that classroom teacher struggling right there, uh huh.
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:29.039
And exactly.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:36.799
And so, and I and also, you know, thinking about it as a district leader or being at Chicago and trying to make resources accessible.
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:42.480
And and, you know, as you said, teachers are thinking, what are you making me do?
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.160
And I it's like, I want you to feel like I want to do this.
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.279
Like I wanted to use the interactive whiteboard in the classroom.
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:56.480
I wanted to uh implement technology or have the laptops or BYOT or whatever it is.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:04.480
I wanted that as a way of better connecting with my students and having them connect to content.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.039
Right.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:13.359
At their level, probably, because again, the differentiation and you know, and technology allows us to do so much more because of that.
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:15.599
And interoperability is connectivity.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:34.640
And I think about that's a civil rights connecting from different experiences and being able to um understand that we have a shared experience as district leaders and what we're trying to accomplish for teachers and students and and to improve learning and teaching experiences.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:41.279
Like, I just feel this sense like when I meet somebody, I'm thinking, who can I introduce them to that's gonna help them?
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:42.720
You are a connector, yeah.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.680
So that's the immediately what I think about.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:46.079
Uh-huh.
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.319
Who can I introduce them to that's going to connect them?
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:55.839
And it could even be a provider that when they're telling me about something like I know a product that I think can help them solve this problem, and I want to try to connect them.
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:01.279
Um so I I think that that's maybe that's all related.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:06.880
Like, and maybe it's just having so many different experiences and and knowing so many different people too.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:15.920
I was asking you for recommendations on something, and I cannot believe how many people, you know, that you could give me just like off the top of your head.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:27.440
So and I have to say that I think part of it was, you know, being the teacher in the classroom and having a direct impact on the students in the classroom was so special.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:41.839
But then expanding that and then being an instructional technology specialist having impact on all the children in a school and all the teachers in that school, that was also such a great feeling.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:59.039
Then going to the district office and feeling like all the schools and their communities are my children, my students, mine, right, and being able to make that um connection with all them, and then again with an ed tech provider with you know districts and and then now with one ed tech, it's global.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.640
So it's like it kept growing on the people that I felt like I'm supposed to be taking care of.
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:06.400
I I love that part.
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:16.000
The joy that you felt in a classroom teaching kids because of your empathy, you wanted other teachers to feel that.
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:17.359
Oh, definitely, definitely.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:19.759
And because that charges us, right?
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.119
That gives us energy.
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:32.000
And then you found ways in your career to scale that so that Belgium and teachers in Belgium can also feel that joy.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:33.440
That that's incredible.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.319
That's incredible.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:41.920
And it's also about being able to identify, like identify you with your positive energy and what you're trying to achieve.
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:49.119
And the leader in Flanders in Belgium, he's the same way, just across the globe.
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.119
Like I must meet him.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:59.920
Finding people like that, and you develop a community of people that are all really trying to achieve the same problem, the same solutions to the same problem.
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.480
So it's like being able to recognize it.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:03.119
Dr.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.319
Tim Clark, I feel like you have a spidey sense in there too.
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:07.599
There's some spidey.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.880
Um, so that that's good because again, that that takes care of the whole person as well.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:27.200
We as educators, you know, we get our joy and fulfillment from seeing the kid light up when they discover something new or seeing, you know, the fact that they can't sleep because they're so excited about what they're doing.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:29.599
Um, that's what we want for our kids.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:38.160
And I'm so glad that you found an avenue um to bring to bring um your skills forward to impact so many.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:39.519
That is so cool.
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.680
Now let's talk about maybe a reroute in your career.
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.279
You know, I I love following the path.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.240
Were there places where you've had to reroute?
00:33:50.880 --> 00:34:05.519
What impressed me is that you had an intention of being, you know, uh an English teacher or things, but you got these challenges or these invitations and you kept you kept going forward.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:14.800
Um, maybe you didn't have the skill set or didn't feel you had the skill set, I'm not sure, for those next steps, but you did it anyway.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:27.199
Um, did you ever have any reroutes or ways to to I think in every position that I've had, I always thought that was the position I'm gonna be in for the rest of my life.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:32.239
But you've heard I've had a lot of different positions and new opportunities arose.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.480
I I would just have to say when I went to Chicago, I thought I would be there at least three to five years.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:43.599
You know, I didn't think I would live there forever, but I thought I would be there longer.
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.480
It just so happened that this position came up.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:55.519
And I think for the rerouting, I didn't realize how hard the commute would feel between Atlanta and Chicago every single week.
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:56.960
I ORD.
00:34:57.440 --> 00:34:59.920
Yeah, I think every week and ATL.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:01.760
Like it was, I mean, it was great.
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:02.880
I never had to go outside.
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:05.119
I could take the train from my apartment.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:14.400
Yeah, but I never really and you you're from a cold weather place, so like I didn't realize how different that would be and how challenging it would be.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:15.199
And I loved it.
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:34.000
I loved the work, but when the position, and it was also an opportunity, but when the position came up that I was able to, you know, work remotely in my position now at one ed tech um and work from Atlanta, Alpharetta, and be able to not commute.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.599
The thing is, I still feel like I'm engaged in the work of Chicago.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.400
They are a member of One Ed Tech is a membership organization.
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:42.400
They are a member of One Ed Tech.
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.440
They are continuing to move forward with their digital ecosystem.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.039
I'm continuing to be able to help them and collaborate and work with them.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:53.519
Um, but it I wanted to see the project all the way through myself.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:54.159
Sure.
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:58.400
Um, but it um, but this was a really great opportunity.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.800
So that it was a good thing, but also I I did a reroute.
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:12.159
However, it also ended up being a really good reroute because the pandemic happened right after I left, and I would have had a very difficult time commuting commuting during the pandemic.
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:14.719
I know.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.440
Uh those were some long hours for for our leaders for sure.
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:24.880
Well, what words of advice would you have uh for our aspiring leaders?
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.159
I mean, you know, sharing your leadership journey.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.840
Um, what have you learned or what things do you want to share?
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:36.320
Well, I definitely have to say that I think everyone should follow their heart.
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.480
And not everybody has to be a leader.
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:40.719
I mean, you're always a leader.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:42.000
Like you're always a leader.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:54.239
As a teacher, you're a leader, but officially like a school system district leader, you don't have to follow that path to achieve satisfaction with your life.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:59.840
Um, and I think there was a sense of like trying to be perfect in so many things that I was doing.
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:09.119
One of the things I've really learned now, and especially with AI, because AI knows so much, and you gotta know when AI is wrong.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:15.519
But but I think now I'm much more comfortable about making mistakes and feeling like it really is a learning experience.
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.199
It's a learning opportunity.
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.519
And it it just truly is.
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:25.920
Like whatever it is, like I feel like now there's always more to learn, and it's okay that you don't get everything right.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:35.840
And so I think that that's one of the things I would like to say to up and coming and new aspiring leaders is feel feel like you can make mistakes and learn from them.
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.440
I think that that's so important.
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.320
Yes, I think that's where the best learning takes place.
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:46.239
I'm one of those who I can be given advice, I don't take the advice, I have to learn on my own.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.559
And so that has gotten me into many different uh situations.
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:52.079
Hey, Dr.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.239
Tim, where can we find you nowadays?
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:54.880
All right.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.760
Tim Clark is a pretty common name, so it's Dr.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.559
Tim Clark on LinkedIn, and uh, but you can find me there.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:04.719
Okay, so if you want to look Dr.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.199
Tim up, now you know where to find him.
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:08.320
Well, Dr.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:18.159
Tim Clark, it has been wonderful talking uh with you, and I'm so glad that that we met years ago because you have been one of my lifelong friends.
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.440
Oh, thank you so much.
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:21.199
And I I love having you here.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:21.920
Thanks.
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:22.800
I appreciate it.
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.159
Thanks for having me.
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:29.679
This has been Beneath the Water Podcast hosted by me, Diane Dirsch.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.599
Deanna Dirsch is executive producer, creative director, and editor.
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:41.199
Ragmende is our audio engineer and sound designer.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:45.599
Special thanks to Friends of Friends recording in Chicago, Illinois.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.239
The link to the community can be found at the description below.
00:38:50.559 --> 00:39:01.119
Also, please subscribe and give us a five star review because those reviews go a long way in helping us reach the people who will find a home here.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:02.880
Thanks for joining.
00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:05.599
Now I even do keynotes and presentations, but inside I'm still thinking, I'm a fifth grade teacher.
00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:07.280
Why am I talking to these people?
00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:12.880
Hi, it's me, your teacher-turned CTIO friend, Diane Dirsch.
00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.279
And this is Beneath the Water.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:19.760
Hi there.
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:21.839
I'm here today with Dr.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.519
Tim Clark.
00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:30.480
And I remember uh when I first met you, it was years ago at the RTM conference.
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Uh, and I had just become the CTIO, I do believe, of Green Bay Area Public Schools.
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And I was very new to, you know, what is it like to be in a larger school district?
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:49.679
I was director of technology in a smaller school school district, but what does a large school district look like?
00:00:49.840 --> 00:01:06.400
And I recall um, you know, hanging out with you because you're a friendly guy, hanging out with you, uh, having dinner uh with you and and Jeff, taking pictures of my food because I had never had such fancy food at a conference before.
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Um and learning a lot from you.
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Uh because at that time I do believe you were a practitioner in a school district, and and we'll hear about your career in a in a minute.
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But I thought, you know, I need to learn from this person because he's been in a larger school district.
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I'm now moving to a larger school district, and this person is smart.
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I had read some things online uh that you had authored, and I thought, yep, yep, I'm gonna follow him.
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So I recall that's how I met you.
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What do you remember about our meeting?
00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:44.799
So uh, well, first of all, I remember us sitting down and actually, I think it was like breakfast, and the sun was shining.
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It was like an outdoor meal.
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So I remember, and we're in California, and I lived in Georgia, so I was really excited to be all the way on the West Coast uh for this conference.
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But I remember sitting at the table next to you, and you just have this great energy.
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So that's what I remember.
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Like I felt very much at ease and like I could talk to you, and I'm a little shy.
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So you were outgoing and we just really clicked because you, you know, I we were able to really have a great conversation about what we're doing in our different roles.
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And yeah, I was at a district that I thought was kind of on the small side.
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It had about 40,000 kids, but now I realize it's actually uh a pretty big school district in comparison, but it's part of the metro Atlanta area, so I was comparing it to all of the districts around us, so I never thought about how big the district was in comparison to the rest of the country.
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Um, but yeah, so that's that's what I remember.
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I remember us having just a really easy conversation with lots of positive energy.
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I love that part.
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I love that part.
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And you know, I think I get those vibes from people sometimes that maybe they don't feel as comfortable or at ease.
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And so I do.
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I I like to draw people in, have conversations, ask about what you do and all those things because those things are so important.
00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:10.560
And I realize it might not be as easy for some people to just like talk.
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So I'm I'm happy that I was able to um, you know, just start that relationship.
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:20.000
And look at this is a relationship that we've had for years because of it.
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I feel like we all have grown up together, you know, in this ed tech space.
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Well, could you tell us a bit about your career?
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How'd you start and where are you now?
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So I started out as a teacher, and I do think, I do think in my heart I still feel like a teacher.
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Um, and I started in uh Chattanooga, that's where I grew up, and I went to university there, and they had a great magnet school, and I was really fortunate to be assigned there as a student teacher, and then they opened up a sister school.
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What was your subject area or were you Janet?
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Well, actually, I started out as secondary English, and I was because I liked writing.
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So that's why I wanted to be an English teacher.
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I really liked writing.
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And I had an uncle in Canada who was an English teacher, and he seemed to have a very good lifestyle for his family.
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And um, I loved reading and I loved writing, so I thought I would become a teacher too.
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But there's this whole thing about working with kids, which I didn't really think about.
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And that means I was a good writer and reader, though.
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And then I went to go and do the student teaching part where, you know, we had a high school placement and uh and uh elementary and a middle school placement.
00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:38.160
So I was secondary at English, and I realized I don't really like high schools though.
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Like I don't, I'm not interested in all of the clubs and activities.
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And when I would go to um interview for positions, instead of asking me about writing or English, they usually asked me what sport did I want to coach.
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Sure, sure.
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And I was thinking, well, I I could do yearbook, and yeah, I don't think that qualifies as a sport.
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Um but so I and back in those days it was harder to get teaching jobs, I think, than it is now.
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Right.
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:13.600
So the first job I I ended up substituting for the first part of the year, and then somebody left the position in the middle of the year.
00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:19.680
So the first job I got as a teacher was as um elementary gifted.
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:20.399
Oh, wow.
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I wasn't even certified for that.
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Right, right.
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So I realized though, there was so much energy and fun at the elementary school.
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Oh and so I actually picked up my elementary certification, my gifted certification, and I taught elementary gifted for about three years.
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:43.519
And then I went to a magnet school where I taught um third grade and fourth grade uh and fifth grade for six years.
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Can you imagine yourself as an elementary teacher at all?
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No, I never even thought about it.
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I never thought about it, but I loved it.
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And I loved it.
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It became like a really hard habit to break.
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Uh I really liked it.
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And I met my wife, and she's a pediatrician, so we had that child kind of like work experience in common, but she really afforded this habit I had of teaching uh for our household.
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.959
And and to like nice things, right?
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Right, exactly.
00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.839
So, but I always used technology, like from the very beginning.
00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:19.360
And for me, at the beginning, it was like Oregon Trail on the Apple III.
00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.839
Oh, I love Oregon Trail and Floppy Discs.
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.519
And that was like high-tech use.
00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:34.560
Yeah, I mean, and in Tennessee, um, when I was teaching, uh, I think it was fourth grade at the time, they had the 21st century teacher initiative.
00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:35.519
I remember that.
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And I had they put like seven computers in my classroom, and we didn't have the internet yet, just the computers.
00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.079
And I also had, I mean, CD ROM was new.
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:52.959
I hate to date myself, but like I was able to do like Arthur's Teacher's Trouble for the whole class and display it on a T.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.720
Carmen, San Diego on CD, yes.
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Right.
00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:01.519
So that's I mean, but we started like doing a lot of creative things too.
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:07.040
I had a scanner, which it was amazing to me the first time I saw like something I scanned on a screen.
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:09.759
I mean gosh, the print shop had come out.
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:11.040
Yeah, my goodness.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:17.839
So all of that was new, and I just kind of um always be I quickly became known as the techie teacher.
00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:20.399
So you must have helped others with that as well.
00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:25.279
And I think that was the natural, I found myself explaining a lot about technology.
00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:36.399
Um, and then I uh my wife and I moved to Georgia and the Atlanta area, and I worked in uh the school district there, Marietta City Schools, and I taught fifth grade.
00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:45.439
Also, when I went to Marietta, I had a much more diverse population, and I realized it would be really interesting to pick up my ESOL certification.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:46.079
Wow.
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:58.240
So I because at that school, and it was new to me at the time uh from growing up in Chattanooga, but it was new to me and Marietta that some mornings they would just buzz my classroom saying, Hey, you got a new student today.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:02.959
And I would get a student that completely would just speak Spanish or Portuguese.
00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:03.759
And sure.
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And I found that really intriguing.
00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.759
So, and my wife was Puerto Rican too.
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:09.920
Oh.
00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.319
So we kind of had a Spanglish household.
00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.839
And so I really was excited about that ESOL.
00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:20.879
So I picked that up as a certification, and then I taught ESOL for a couple of years.
00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:31.040
We had to have this was a really exciting to me at the time, but we had to have the my ESOL students had to get so many hours of their ESOL programming.
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:39.120
But I was at one school and they would bust the kids over to me from another school, and I would have a combined classroom of students from two different schools.
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:46.240
Some of these students were as young as kindergarten and only speaking Spanish or Korean or you know, whatever language.
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:51.039
But to get in my hours, we had to eat breakfast together in the school cafeteria.
00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:56.080
And so we would actually have breakfast together and we would the universal language.
00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:56.480
Yes.
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We would talk about food and teach each other words, and I would try to teach these little tiny kids about um, you know, English words for things, and and we would have conversation.
00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:11.600
So I I I love that too.
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.799
And uh, I've always loved all of these experiences.
00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:20.240
Um and then I but I really wanted to use uh additional technology.
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:35.679
I also taught at a private school for about five years, and it was in a multi-age classroom of fourth and fifth grade students and with a and with a uh co-teacher, and it was all in primary years program of the international baccalaureate, big units of study.
00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:39.279
Rigorous incorporating technology.
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:50.720
Um, and I loved the school, but I really wanted an interactive whiteboard in my room because by now that was the new technology, and there was the school district that was very close to my house.
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:59.360
Um, and so Forsyth County Schools in Georgia was known for being the first to put interactive whiteboards in every single classroom.
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And I thought I really want to go teach and do that position.
00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:10.879
So I um I did apply and I got hired to teach sixth and seventh grade gifted.
00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:12.960
So this was like a new age range for me.
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:13.360
Yes.
00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.679
Sixth and seventh grade gifted social studies, which is world history.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:26.480
And then the week of pre-planning, I found out that the principal had reassigned me to teaching eighth grade gifted, which is Georgia Studies.
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:32.799
And I didn't grow up in Georgia, I didn't take Georgia history, and they were gifted students.
00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:34.399
They could sit, they could call my bluff.
00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:49.039
And I um wow, I just did the school district, it was very advanced in technology, and I was the techie teacher, and we had the laptop carts, and they basically lived in my room.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.200
I would check them out from the media center, but there wasn't a lot of demand from anybody else.
00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:54.080
Yeah, I recall.
00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:59.840
And every project or every concept that I taught my students, we utilized technology.
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:08.879
And to me, all of this has always been about creativity, collaboration, critical thinking, communication, the four C's that we talk about.
00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:15.759
I mean, I feel like if we all do that and focus there, we're going to have more effective technology use.
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:16.080
Right.
00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.799
I did that with my eighth grade students, who was very well received.
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:29.200
And then the next year I was offered um like four different positions in the district as an instructional technology specialist in a school.
00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.759
And so in that role, I was the coach.
00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:40.720
I was the that's when I realized how other teachers teach because that's how I saw other teachers in the um teaching.
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:49.759
And my role was went to a brand new elementary school, and my role was to coach the teachers in the use of the technology tools and resources that we had.
00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.240
And um, and I loved that.
00:11:52.559 --> 00:12:00.960
And in a couple of years, I was then asked to go to the district office and I became the coordinator of instructional technology for Forsyth County Schools.
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.840
Now, where did the doctorate part come in?
00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:09.279
So at that same time, okay, good, good point, good in the timeline.
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:18.080
Um, at that point, I had begun my doctorate when I was the instructional technology specialist at Kennesaw State University in Georgia.
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:30.159
And they had a new doctorate program where they had a um it was educational leadership, but with a focus or concentration in instructional technology in Kennesaw University.
00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.759
Uh Kennesaw State University is still a leader in instructional technology.
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:49.120
And I um so as part of their, I think their second cohort, but I really applied myself and what I did for my dissertation study was the use of a learning management system in a fourth grade classroom.
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:49.600
Wow.
00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.080
So it was That was very early.
00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:53.360
It was very early.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:59.919
So I was writing my dissertation study in like 2010 and the use of this learning management system.
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:02.240
Um the energy happened.
00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:08.639
And my focus on that was how you could build a community of practice among your students with the use of the learning management system.
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:09.200
Yes.
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:18.399
So that, you know, really helped um, you know, a lot of my work, I guess, and and my and a lot of my focus.
00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:31.279
So um and then I and then I was you know at the the district office and we began implementing bring your own technology in Forsyth County, which now it's banned in many places.
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:37.200
But at the time it was the it was the solution to the problem of this was during the recession.
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.919
We didn't have the funds to go one-to-one.
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:49.440
Um, and many students had their own devices that they wanted to use, and we just enabled um them to be able to do that in First Side.
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:51.200
And I started blogging about it.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.759
Yes, and I think that's taking it full circle to where you started talking about this.
00:13:55.919 --> 00:14:03.519
I started blogging about and I think that's it when we were at the conference, it's like, you're the Dr.
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.240
Tim Clark, the hashtag BYOT.
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.919
Yeah, BYOT Network.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:08.879
Yes, yes.
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:17.919
And I made and I did a Twitter chat about BYOT with some other people uh around the country, and we had pretty good attendance on the chat.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.360
Um, I did it every Thursday night for several years.
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.120
Um and then and I and when I blogged, I also illustrated.
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:26.559
So I I came full circle.
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.639
All of that writing that I wanted to do.
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:30.559
Finally, you can use it.
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:31.679
I was using it.
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:39.759
Um and and it just opened up a whole lot of experiences for me, I have to say.
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.879
And I did get requests to go and speak about this.
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:50.480
We started having BYOT tours of our district where people would come in from other districts to see as a model district.
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:59.360
Um and out of that, uh, I then had the opportunity to um go and work for an ed tech provider.
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.639
So I worked for Safari Montage for about five years.
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:12.799
And part of it was just like being able to, I started meeting people like you, like uh from Wisconsin and you know, Jeff McCoy from Greenville and Charl Apshire from Louisiana.
00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:16.960
And it was like, I wanna, I want to have a greater impact.
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:17.279
Yes.
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:18.080
Um, yeah.
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:28.240
So it was that feeling of connectivity of getting out of, you know, my bubble and like opening myself up to new things too.
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:38.639
And I did that for about five years, and I had lots of experiences in other districts, and you know, I and I want to bring up the point too, because this is part of my career journey as well.
00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:40.639
Um, you know, learning management systems.
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:52.960
We talked about that, and I am I always had that thought, how can we connect, you know, our learning management system to our student information system and all these other things?
00:15:53.120 --> 00:16:12.879
And then Safari Montage comes along, and I recall Tim Beekman coming to Green Bay because I was like, now how can we allow kids to have content that comes in and tie it interoperably to, you know, these systems.
00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:29.840
And he was one of the major influences on me and helping me think how we can create interoperability and allow data from one source of truth to go to all these other places and to come back again.
00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:49.840
And so, you know, I think your pieces of the puzzle with the learning management system and um, you know, technically how you made BYOD work and then come full circle, as you say, to influencing me about how we thought about connecting systems in Green Bay is is just amazing.
00:16:50.000 --> 00:17:05.839
And so I think as other leaders listen to this podcast, they're gonna say, hey, wait, that was this time in my career, you know, everyone will say that when we started thinking about data, moving safely to different systems.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:16.079
So I I appreciate you bringing up Safari Montage because it was the thinking within that circle that helped move me forward as a professional.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:18.559
Well, and and I'm glad that you said that.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:32.960
And Tim Beekman was a very um impressive person in the field of ed tech, and uh and he was part of the reason why I ended up going to Safari Montage as an employee because he was very convincing.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:41.440
And and in this journey too, early on, it was just more tech is good tech, more tech is better tech.
00:17:41.920 --> 00:18:03.440
And yes, it's it, and you know, we just wanted people to use it from the Oregon Trail and Carbon Sam, whereas Carbon San Diego and uh Arthur's teacher trouble, and yeah, it was just just usage, and I think, you know, those are things I learned along the way with some very good leadership along the way too, but realizing it's not all the same.
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.319
Like it's not just about more tech, it's right, it's about the way you're using it.
00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:16.000
The way you talked about intention, using technology in every one of your projects with intention.
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:20.720
And so it wasn't just like, you know, watch this YouTube thing unrelated.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.640
You know, it it was actual intention, it was creation.
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:38.000
And so I'm so glad that you had that voice that was able to travel through Twitter and um and and your other um blogs and things because you influenced a whole bunch of people.
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:38.720
That's awesome.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:39.759
That's nice to know.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.519
And and this inner interoperability was huge.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:49.599
So, and and for Scythe County to get the system to work, even with Bring Your Own Technology.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:58.000
We wanted students to be accessing resources that were appropriate and also effective and had impact on their learning experiences.
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.720
So interoperability was a huge piece to that.
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:02.559
You had to get through that, yes.
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:18.720
And not with one standardized piece of equipment, you know, like a one-to-one program, because all tech directors love that when you can standardize, but to be able to be inclusive of all the different gadgets that kids brought in at that time.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:24.160
And now, of course, they're one-to-one and they have devices and all of that happened, you know.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:32.000
Um the great thing was there was a lot of work and thought that went into this much earlier than the pandemic.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:33.839
So that's right.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:48.240
So being able to have more of an interoperable digital ecosystem really put Forsyth ahead when it came to the pandemic, and then there was a shift to remote learning because they already, it had already happened in Georgia.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.039
We would have ice storms and our and Atlanta would shut down.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:00.640
So a lot of the districts around Metro Atlanta had moved to having some digital learning days if they needed to because of the weather.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:31.119
So the pandemic was, of course, magnifying that, but it um it happened that they were prepared because of, and a lot of it was interoperability and taking the time to curate resources in a learning object repository or in another location and having learning management systems and digital tools that were interoperable and using one ed tech IMAS global standards, uh such as OneRoster or LTI or Common Cartridge to be able to have all of our resources together.
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:43.519
But as a part of this work, and as I began learning about other districts and other places, a position opened up at Chicago Public Schools.
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:56.960
And under the leadership of Latanya McDade, she's um now uh superintendent um and at Prince George's uh at Prince William County in uh Virginia.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:08.799
And so I um uh great leadership, and they were realizing that in Chicago they had 550 schools and they all had a different curriculum.
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:09.119
Oh, okay.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:36.079
And they all had different resources, they all had different ed tech tools, they all it was very scattered, and they realized they needed to make sure they fill in gaps by having a high-quality curriculum that could be shared across the district to all teachers and students to make sure that at least it wasn't a requirement, but make sure that everybody at least had high quality instructional materials throughout the district.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.640
And so as part of that, interoperability became a huge piece of it.
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.559
And we, you know, focused on building it out to be a digital curriculum.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.519
This was in 2018, 2019 school year.
00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:50.000
So we started establishing it.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:50.400
Yes.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:55.920
I was hired in the position of uh executive director of curriculum instruction, digital learning.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.759
We put together the department, we procured the publisher.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.319
To design the curriculum and the resources and the systems to be able to deploy it uh district wide.
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.519
School district.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.240
Here you thought you were a small school district in Georgia.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:10.799
Yes.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.759
And then you realized you were a bigger fish than you thought.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:23.680
But then, like Chicago Public Schools, was it the how large is it on the scale of like a let's see, LA Unified?
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.519
So it had uh at the time 350,000 students.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.279
It was number three in size.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:30.559
I think it might be number four now.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:30.960
Uh-huh.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:32.160
Um to scale.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:33.599
And then right.
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:36.799
It was a very large procurement of resources.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:45.519
And what we included in all of our procurement requirements and contracts were um certifications with one ed tech.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.000
At the time, it was called IMS Global, but one ed tech standards for interoperability.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:57.680
And it was the only way that we felt like we would be able to scale the curriculum out to be district wide.
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.319
And I was there for a year.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:16.880
And the and commuting back and forth, I had an apartment in Chicago, but commuting from Atlanta to um Chicago every week and worked throughout all of the procurement and beginning the foundation of that.
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:23.279
And then toward the end of that year, a position was created and opened at IMS Global, One Ed Tech.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:24.799
I'll just call it One Ed Tech from now on.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.839
That's our new name.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:31.200
But it was um it opened up at One Ed Tech for the vice president of K-12 programs.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.200
So I applied for that position.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:48.799
And it really brought together all of this, these experiences because I really was engaged with interoperability at for Scythe County Schools, interoperability with Safari Montage, interoperability now with Chicago public schools.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:24:03.039
And so here was this whole other opportunity to help bring interoperability at a really a global scale because Winna Tech is a global nonprofit that is focused on the development and implementation of interoperability and privacy standards.
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.640
So I now had, I guess, a global impact and footprint.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.799
So that's that's that's incredible.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:11.839
And that's where you are.
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:13.279
And that's where I am right now.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:28.640
So again, going from someone who started out as a secondary English English and writing uh to teaching gifted, loving elementary, and now impacting the world.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.000
That's incredible.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:42.960
And we have ministries of education, like France, just put in legislation that they have to use providers there have to use LTI learning tools interoperability for connecting resources together.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:47.200
And part of it is not just the seamless ease of use, which is so important.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:49.279
I mean, I remember being the teacher doing it all by myself.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.640
Trying to get the stuff.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.799
I know we gotta get the stuff to our kids.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.359
There's now security in the use of the standards and in the movement of the data.
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:08.640
So being able to have LTI 1.3 to make sure it's more secure or one roster to protect that data from your student information system to other platforms.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.400
Um, it's really important.
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:32.160
And also our data privacy certification, um, where we've vetted over 13,000 applications to a data privacy uh rubric that's developed as a community and a community that involves higher ed, K-12 school districts, states, ministries of education, as well as the ed tech providers, all partnering together on interoperability.
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:44.640
And, you know, this is what I love too, is because this is the forethought that you had talked about very early on about being intentional uh about connections.
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:52.720
And I always believe that that solid infrastructure needs to take place before anything else can.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.039
And this is uh addresses that.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.720
We're gonna take a break for a moment and we'll move on to other things next.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:05.519
Hey, we're back.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:11.680
We're still talking about interoperability because this is where I get really jazzed too.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:39.680
And I I was saying to Tim on the break, I believe every educ um tech leader who has lived through this time can probably benchmark themselves on some of the things that you're talking about because um, you know, we were all struggling with that, and solutions came through with, you know, um safari montage and then the the standards and everything, and everything became easier because of it.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:45.920
You know, I think Tim, what has impressed me is that you talked about being a classroom teacher.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:27:00.559
And I love that you still say that you consider yourself a classroom teacher, but to hear you talk technically about things, I would think that, you know, you grew up in the technical world as well.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.160
What are your thoughts on that?
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:05.200
Well, I don't think that I'm technical at all.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.640
Like I feel like for me it's all about instruction.
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:18.160
So whenever I'm talking about this, I'm thinking about how I would use tools and resources in my classroom from a teacher perspective.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:23.759
Now I even do keynotes and presentations, but inside I'm still thinking, I'm a fifth grade teacher.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:25.440
Why am I talking to these people?
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.319
You know, it's like, but I that's what I that's how I feel.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:36.400
And even when I went to Chicago, I think what happened, I was able to talk about it from that teacher's perspective.
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:44.720
And they really wanted the teachers to have a great experience in their classrooms teaching with this digital curriculum.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:46.960
And curriculum that was also digital.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:52.240
It wasn't that the digital was the main part, it was the fact that was the way it was accessible.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.079
Yes, the only way, right?
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:54.319
Right.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.319
So, and also, you know, being that classroom teacher, you had built that credibility.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.960
I was always a skeptic when I was a teacher.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:09.759
When someone tried to come in and tell us how to teach, and they, you know, we ask, Well, have you been in the classroom?
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.559
Well, I was for one year, or I've never been a teacher.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.480
It's like, you know what?
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.000
I'm not gonna listen to you.
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:24.880
I've gotten a little better at it, but um, you know, that credibility I think is there, and also that ability to translate, I think is is something.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.160
So, what things from your past do you think?
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.440
And thank you for sharing the details.
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:36.319
Um, what things in your past cause you now to be the leader that you are?
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.960
Because oh my goodness, working with ministries, you are truly global.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:42.880
You're impacting the world.
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:52.640
Um and so I'm sure that you had to have carried something, you know, uh a trait or something from the past that appears with Dr.
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:53.759
Tim Clark now.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:29:00.880
I I think that probably the trait is just a sense of empathy.
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:01.519
Oh.
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:10.720
And that I can feel when I'm when people are talking to me that they're in a situation at their district, they're trying to make something work in their country.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:23.200
We just had Flanders in Belgium as a new member of One Ed Tech, they're doing an amazing job, but they're trying to set up a system where they would be make resources accessible throughout Flanders.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:23.839
Sure.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:27.839
And you've been that classroom teacher struggling right there, uh huh.
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:29.039
And exactly.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:36.799
And so, and I and also, you know, thinking about it as a district leader or being at Chicago and trying to make resources accessible.
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:42.480
And and, you know, as you said, teachers are thinking, what are you making me do?
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.160
And I it's like, I want you to feel like I want to do this.
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.279
Like I wanted to use the interactive whiteboard in the classroom.
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:56.480
I wanted to uh implement technology or have the laptops or BYOT or whatever it is.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:04.480
I wanted that as a way of better connecting with my students and having them connect to content.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.039
Right.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:13.359
At their level, probably, because again, the differentiation and you know, and technology allows us to do so much more because of that.
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:15.599
And interoperability is connectivity.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:34.640
And I think about that's a civil rights connecting from different experiences and being able to um understand that we have a shared experience as district leaders and what we're trying to accomplish for teachers and students and and to improve learning and teaching experiences.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:41.279
Like, I just feel this sense like when I meet somebody, I'm thinking, who can I introduce them to that's gonna help them?
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:42.720
You are a connector, yeah.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:45.680
So that's the immediately what I think about.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:46.079
Uh-huh.
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.319
Who can I introduce them to that's going to connect them?
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:55.839
And it could even be a provider that when they're telling me about something like I know a product that I think can help them solve this problem, and I want to try to connect them.
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:01.279
Um so I I think that that's maybe that's all related.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:06.880
Like, and maybe it's just having so many different experiences and and knowing so many different people too.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:15.920
I was asking you for recommendations on something, and I cannot believe how many people, you know, that you could give me just like off the top of your head.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:27.440
So and I have to say that I think part of it was, you know, being the teacher in the classroom and having a direct impact on the students in the classroom was so special.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:41.839
But then expanding that and then being an instructional technology specialist having impact on all the children in a school and all the teachers in that school, that was also such a great feeling.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:59.039
Then going to the district office and feeling like all the schools and their communities are my children, my students, mine, right, and being able to make that um connection with all them, and then again with an ed tech provider with you know districts and and then now with one ed tech, it's global.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.640
So it's like it kept growing on the people that I felt like I'm supposed to be taking care of.
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:06.400
I I love that part.
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:16.000
The joy that you felt in a classroom teaching kids because of your empathy, you wanted other teachers to feel that.
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:17.359
Oh, definitely, definitely.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:19.759
And because that charges us, right?
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.119
That gives us energy.
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:32.000
And then you found ways in your career to scale that so that Belgium and teachers in Belgium can also feel that joy.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:33.440
That that's incredible.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.319
That's incredible.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:41.920
And it's also about being able to identify, like identify you with your positive energy and what you're trying to achieve.
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:49.119
And the leader in Flanders in Belgium, he's the same way, just across the globe.
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.119
Like I must meet him.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:59.920
Finding people like that, and you develop a community of people that are all really trying to achieve the same problem, the same solutions to the same problem.
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.480
So it's like being able to recognize it.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:03.119
Dr.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.319
Tim Clark, I feel like you have a spidey sense in there too.
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:07.599
There's some spidey.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.880
Um, so that that's good because again, that that takes care of the whole person as well.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:27.200
We as educators, you know, we get our joy and fulfillment from seeing the kid light up when they discover something new or seeing, you know, the fact that they can't sleep because they're so excited about what they're doing.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:29.599
Um, that's what we want for our kids.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:38.160
And I'm so glad that you found an avenue um to bring to bring um your skills forward to impact so many.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:39.519
That is so cool.
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.680
Now let's talk about maybe a reroute in your career.
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.279
You know, I I love following the path.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.240
Were there places where you've had to reroute?
00:33:50.880 --> 00:34:05.519
What impressed me is that you had an intention of being, you know, uh an English teacher or things, but you got these challenges or these invitations and you kept you kept going forward.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:14.800
Um, maybe you didn't have the skill set or didn't feel you had the skill set, I'm not sure, for those next steps, but you did it anyway.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:27.199
Um, did you ever have any reroutes or ways to to I think in every position that I've had, I always thought that was the position I'm gonna be in for the rest of my life.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:32.239
But you've heard I've had a lot of different positions and new opportunities arose.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.480
I I would just have to say when I went to Chicago, I thought I would be there at least three to five years.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:43.599
You know, I didn't think I would live there forever, but I thought I would be there longer.
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.480
It just so happened that this position came up.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:55.519
And I think for the rerouting, I didn't realize how hard the commute would feel between Atlanta and Chicago every single week.
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:56.960
I ORD.
00:34:57.440 --> 00:34:59.920
Yeah, I think every week and ATL.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:01.760
Like it was, I mean, it was great.
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:02.880
I never had to go outside.
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:05.119
I could take the train from my apartment.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:14.400
Yeah, but I never really and you you're from a cold weather place, so like I didn't realize how different that would be and how challenging it would be.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:15.199
And I loved it.
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:34.000
I loved the work, but when the position, and it was also an opportunity, but when the position came up that I was able to, you know, work remotely in my position now at one ed tech um and work from Atlanta, Alpharetta, and be able to not commute.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.599
The thing is, I still feel like I'm engaged in the work of Chicago.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.400
They are a member of One Ed Tech is a membership organization.
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:42.400
They are a member of One Ed Tech.
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.440
They are continuing to move forward with their digital ecosystem.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.039
I'm continuing to be able to help them and collaborate and work with them.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:53.519
Um, but it I wanted to see the project all the way through myself.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:54.159
Sure.
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:58.400
Um, but it um, but this was a really great opportunity.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.800
So that it was a good thing, but also I I did a reroute.
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:12.159
However, it also ended up being a really good reroute because the pandemic happened right after I left, and I would have had a very difficult time commuting commuting during the pandemic.
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:14.719
I know.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.440
Uh those were some long hours for for our leaders for sure.
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:24.880
Well, what words of advice would you have uh for our aspiring leaders?
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.159
I mean, you know, sharing your leadership journey.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.840
Um, what have you learned or what things do you want to share?
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:36.320
Well, I definitely have to say that I think everyone should follow their heart.
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.480
And not everybody has to be a leader.
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:40.719
I mean, you're always a leader.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:42.000
Like you're always a leader.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:54.239
As a teacher, you're a leader, but officially like a school system district leader, you don't have to follow that path to achieve satisfaction with your life.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:59.840
Um, and I think there was a sense of like trying to be perfect in so many things that I was doing.
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:09.119
One of the things I've really learned now, and especially with AI, because AI knows so much, and you gotta know when AI is wrong.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:15.519
But but I think now I'm much more comfortable about making mistakes and feeling like it really is a learning experience.
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.199
It's a learning opportunity.
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.519
And it it just truly is.
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:25.920
Like whatever it is, like I feel like now there's always more to learn, and it's okay that you don't get everything right.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:35.840
And so I think that that's one of the things I would like to say to up and coming and new aspiring leaders is feel feel like you can make mistakes and learn from them.
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.440
I think that that's so important.
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.320
Yes, I think that's where the best learning takes place.
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:46.239
I'm one of those who I can be given advice, I don't take the advice, I have to learn on my own.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.559
And so that has gotten me into many different uh situations.
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:52.079
Hey, Dr.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.239
Tim, where can we find you nowadays?
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:54.880
All right.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.760
Tim Clark is a pretty common name, so it's Dr.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.559
Tim Clark on LinkedIn, and uh, but you can find me there.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:04.719
Okay, so if you want to look Dr.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.199
Tim up, now you know where to find him.
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:08.320
Well, Dr.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:18.159
Tim Clark, it has been wonderful talking uh with you, and I'm so glad that that we met years ago because you have been one of my lifelong friends.
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.440
Oh, thank you so much.
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:21.199
And I I love having you here.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:21.920
Thanks.
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:22.800
I appreciate it.
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.159
Thanks for having me.
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:29.679
This has been Beneath the Water Podcast hosted by me, Diane Dirsch.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.599
Deanna Dirsch is executive producer, creative director, and editor.
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:41.199
Ragmende is our audio engineer and sound designer.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:45.599
Special thanks to Friends of Friends recording in Chicago, Illinois.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.239
The link to the community can be found at the description below.
00:38:50.559 --> 00:39:01.119
Also, please subscribe and give us a five star review because those reviews go a long way in helping us reach the people who will find a home here.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:02.880
Thanks for joining.
