Networking Can Work! How Andre De Almeida built his freelance business on conversations

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Hi, I'm Andre De Almeida, a freelance marketing manager originally from Brazil, now based in London.
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And I'm Steve Folland, a freelance podcast and video editor and creator of this here podcast and community.
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So, time to meet Andre, find out what it's like for him being freelance! As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
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Yeah.
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So, I moved from Brazil to London back in 2016 to learn English.
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So, it took me about three years until I had enough English that I felt comfortable to get an office job.
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But, obviously, didn't have any network or anything around marketing in London, so luckily, I found your podcast back then.
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It was about 2019, 2020.
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And that's when I said, "Okay, how do I get myself into the marketing world in London?" So, I just found the podcast, "Being Freelance," and I was listening to it, taking tips from people.
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I had this note on my phone, which unfortunately, my phone died back then, and I lost it.
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So, for every podcast, I was literally taking notes, how people got clients, what did they say that they did, or it worked or didn't work.
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And I remember Sarah Townsend?
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Yeah.
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I think I pronounced her name right.
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Sorry, Sarah.
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Yeah.
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And I think she said, "Tell your family and friends, the immediate circle supporting network, about your business, about your freelancing business." So, I said, "Okay, let's get this started.
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Let's see how this works." So, I did, and that's how I got my first client back then.
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Literally messaging family back in Brazil saying, "I'm starting this business," because it was just a way for me to keep in touch with marketing as well.
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And my auntie was working at a company at the time, and then her company needed some help with LinkedIn.
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So, that's kind of my freelance journey started.
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It was very brief.
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It lasted for about six months, because then I got offered an office job.
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So, that's what I was looking for at the time.
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So, I left the freelancing world after six months, and then I got myself into a office job.
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It was a really interesting, nice challenge.
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That's what I wanted.
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And then after three years, that's when my second freelancing life started, because I was made redundant.
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I then thought to myself,"Okay, do I want to go back to a corporate?
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Do I want to go back to an office job, 9:00 to 5:00, Monday to Friday?" And then I said, "Okay, let me try this freelancing thing that people rave about and people say it can work." But I never saw myself doing it as a full-time job, basically, or that I could make a living out of it.
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I always thought it's a side gig or something, like you can just do in between jobs.
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And then, yeah, meeting people, the more people I met, kind of the same story repeated.
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I got made redundant, and I didn't want to go back to corporate.
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I started my business, I have my clients, and I can travel.
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So, that sounds really interesting.
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So, that was about now two and a half, almost three years since I started the business.
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So, finally, about three years ago, you think, "I'm done with the whole being made redundant, getting rehired-" Yes.
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"… all of that." I know originally you contacted family, but how did you get the first freelance clients this second time around?
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The officially freelancing world, freelance life.
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Yeah, so basically, I did the same thing again.
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I started messaging people, but at that time, I'd already built some sort of a network in London.
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So, the company I was working for, I said, "Okay, I'm going to talk to the owner because they might have people to recommend me," because we left in good terms.
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So, I start messaging people that I collaborate with because I was a marketing manager for them.
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So, within that three-year period, we run events, we run charity funds.
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So, I ended up expanding my network, and I reached out to those people.
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At the same time, I start visiting and going to networking events, which it was very challenging at the beginning because I always hated network events.
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But when you go as a freelancer, as a business, it is so much different than when you go as an employee to a big trade fair.
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And that's how I found, "Okay, I like this now. I like this better." So, officially, my first client came out of one of the networks events that I went, recommended by another freelancer that was there.
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So, then again, this opened up my little box of, I can collaborate with people.
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That exists.
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It's not everybody trying to steal your clients.
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People recommend you.
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People compliment your work.
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So, that's how I got my first, was basically out of a networking event.
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I was talking to someone, and I pretty much said,"I started my business.
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I'm a marketing manager, more a generalist marketing manager, if you like, because that's what I've been doing in corporate for the last 15 years." And then the person said, "Oh, okay, I know somebody that might need some help with day-to-day work." So, I said, "Okay, fine." So, I got that first client there, and then the second client happened.
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So, it was a very good beginning of my freelance life because I got two clients within a month.
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And I said, "Okay, this is good. This is promising. This can work." The second client was a friend of my partner.
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She had run her business, and she needed help.
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I said, "Great, let's do it." We'd done some work.
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We worked for three months, but then I stopped searching for new clients because I was so busy, A, starting the business and working on those two projects, and then everybody knows what happened next.
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Those two projects finish, and then I saw myself, "Okay, I have no clients again. What do I do?" How do I survive?
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Is this how we work, right?
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The marketing manager stopped marketing himself.
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Honestly, yes.
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It's absolutely crazy, but I just didn't know how to run a business.
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I think that's the right way of saying it.
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I knew how to do marketing.
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I know how to do marketing, but all of those extra set of skills that you just don't learn when you corporate.
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You just don't know how to, yeah, account, and not that I don't now, I have an accountant, but how to sell, how to onboard, and how to assess if that client is good for you or not.
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That's something I had to learn, because not every client is my client.
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So, all those things that at the beginning, A, I didn't say no to anyone because it all felt like losing money.
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All projects, I said, "Okay, I can do this, and I can stretch myself a little bit on this area, and I can do it." Until you… Well, it took me, again, that was a hard probably six months after those two projects finished, because then I say,"Okay, I don't have clients.
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What do I do?" And then I start going back to networking events and meeting people and talking, and I've been vulnerable, telling people that it's okay to say it to you, you don't have no clients.
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It's okay to say that.
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You don't have to be successful all the time.
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That's how I learned.
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The more transparent you are, the more honest you are, you don't try to say that you are in a position that you're not, people connect with you, and they understand you.
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That was my experience mainly, but… What kind of networking events were these?
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It was a little bit of everything.
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I was going to, obviously joining the Being Freelance, that helped me.
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I met people there that recommend me to clients.
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Cat, we share a client until today.
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Catherine Saunders, she's a marketing manager as well, and yeah, we've been collaborating with this client for over two years now.
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Oh my God.
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Sorry to interject.
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Right, okay, we'll put a pin in networking.
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What's crazy about that is I remember when you two first met.
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Yeah.
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Because we went on a Being Freelance golf day, which was mini golf- Yes.
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It was a mini… in London, and it was your first time, and it was Cat's first time, and you were both marketers, and you hit it off.
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I didn't realise you'd been working together with the same client since, well, almost since then.
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Yeah, we have.
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Amazing.
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Yeah.
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It's incredible when you look back that we were in the same position at the same time, starting our businesses and- Yeah… going through the same type of thing, and yeah, it's really good.
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We've been sharing this client and looking forward to carry on for next year.
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Yeah, apart from the Being Freelance network and the co-working, I went to, Steve, every network event that I saw online.
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I said, "Okay, I'm going to go to this," because I had the time.
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I wasn't busy with work, and I did free work as well.
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I messaged people saying, "Hey, would you like a free marketing audit?" Because it was my way of, A, testing some process, but also keeping myself busy.
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I hated not having anything to do during the day.
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So, free work, and I was, like I said, anything in London, network-wise, I was going to breakfasts, I was going to dinner, catch-ups, IT, AI.
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Oh my God, every event that I could come across.
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Got invited to some interesting ones that I never came back, but it felt like a cult.
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I'm not going to name and shame, but yeah, it felt like a cult that they want to convert me.
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But, yeah, and then I found, I think from those networking events, I just found my voice, the way I want to present the business, the way I present myself, and that's what the clients get.
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The same Andre that they meet on the network events is the same Andre that worked with them.
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Networking became my main source of clients, really.
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So, does that mean when you first went to networking, you felt you were pretending to be something else?
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Yeah.
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And then event… Yeah, go on, what happened?
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Yeah, yeah, that exactly it.
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So, when I went for the first time, you meet people, and everybody is always… It felt like almost like an Instagram Live.
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Everybody had a perfect business, everybody was busy, everybody had inquiries coming, everybody had projects.
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And I was like, "Okay, I don't have any of those.
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So, do I have to just not tell people that I started a business now, or it's a recent business?
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What is the right thing to say?" It wasn't until I said to people, "Oh, how's your work going?" Said, "Oh, actually, it's going really tough because I have no clients." So, that's when I felt I connect with people more, when I was being transparent.
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I wasn't trying to hide that I didn't have clients or that I had a successful business then.
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So, for me, it was a tipping point.
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Just, yeah, it's okay.
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It's okay to have no clients.
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Financially, it's not, but as a business, as a person, it happens.
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And it was all new to me.
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Yes, we're up and running.
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Thank you for joining us for another one, by the way.
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Don't forget, these podcasts are available in video as well, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube.
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And this episode is supported by Gold Stag Accounts, specialists in freelancer finances.
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They're for your tax returns, ongoing support, making sense of making tax digital, when you need to start charging VAT, or ready to help make you a cup of tea, because they're lovely people to hang out with too.
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00:11:55.125 --> 00:11:57.317
All right, let's get back to Andre's story.
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So, is networking still today your main marketing channel?
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Yeah, it is, for two reasons.
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One, gives me a reason to get out of the house and get out of the office.
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And the second one, I just like to talk to people.
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I found out that I like to be out and understanding people and trying to learn what I can help them with on a marketing side.
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And sometimes I just give, yeah, free tips.
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And I was in a network event last month that I organized, the Business Buzz, that I help to organize every month.
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And I was talking to this guy, and he was telling me a few things, and I just said, "Oh, from my experience, I think you should do this and that," because he was asking me.
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I said, "Oh, but I don't want to pick your ears too much because I'm not your client." He said,"Listen, that's fine if you feel this is valuable to you and will help your business." Because a lot of people helped me when I started, so I just feel fine to give it back and help people in that way.
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And if they see the value and they can become a client, why not?
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I don't see that as a problem.
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But for me, it's getting out of the house and talking to people and meeting people.
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I really like that.
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And yeah, clients come from it.
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And did you say just now that you organise a networking event as well?
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Is that what you said?
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Yes, it is, yeah.
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So, there's a event or a company called Business Buzz.
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Not Business Bus.
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My partner always corrects me because it sounds like the bus.
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Buzz.
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Buzz.
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Like a Bee.
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Bee, yeah.
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Yeah.
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So, probably one and a half years ago, I went to this network event, Central London.
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Again, small event for business, solopreneurs.
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It's a very diverse type of event.
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And I really liked because it didn't feel like a card swapping event.
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So, people were actually wants to talk to you and wants to know you, and not just, "Hi, my name is Andre. Here's my card.
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Grab your card," and off you go.
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So, I went a few times, and then they were expanding to Canary Wharf, which is literally one stop for me on the tube here.
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They were looking for somebody to help them to run the event in Canary Wharf.
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I said, "Oh, okay. Well, that sounds fun, sounds convenient.
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It's a good timing." So, I joined the host, and now we run these events in Canary Wharf.
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Yeah, network events.
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So, you've been doing that about a year, 18 months?
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18 months, yeah, with them.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Since becoming an organiser, have you noticed a difference in the way people get to know you or maybe work that might come your way, or any, like a difference between attending to being an organiser?
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Well, there is, yes.
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I feel that organising, I have less time to network.
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Oh.
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Because I just want to make sure everybody's welcomed in the room and they feel introduced to people that they can collaborate, but also put me on the other side of the room, on the other side of the coin, rather.
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People know me as the person that helps to organize the event.
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I don't feel I then have to network too hard when I'm there.
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But even so, when I attend a network event now, I have so much more to talk.
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I've been running the business for almost three years.
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I run a network event, and a few other things I've done on the business over the last couple of years, that it feels easier to go to a network event now.
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Now, that's not the only way that you have tried to market yourself, though, because I know you did a podcast, or maybe you still do do a podcast as well, right?
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Yeah, you're right.
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Yeah.
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So, I don't know if we still do.
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We paused it.
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We didn't stop it, we paused it.
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That's what we say.
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Because we did two seasons, so we have probably about 24 episodes live.
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But I got super busy with work, and my podcast partner decided to grow her family, which is incredible, amazing.
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So, yeah, managing both of us at the same time was quite hard.
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So, we stopped the podcast for probably two years, let's say, because we really enjoyed doing it quite a bit, because, A, it was our way to keep in touch with each other, collaborating and learning and researching, keeping us fresh, really.
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And then the other side of the podcast, obviously, was the conversations and the amount of people that we got to meet.
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So, it started again with immediate friends and colleagues from Brighton, because I did my master's in Brighton.
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So, we had the immediate teachers and coordinators from the course, and they introduced us to some people, and then their people.
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It was just like a domino effect of incredible people that came our way.
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I said, "You know what? Why not?" Again, I have the time.
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I was just trying.
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That's what I like about marketing.
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It's all about trying, isn't it?
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You can try, and it's my business.
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If it doesn't work, that's my problem.
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So, yeah, I was just trying just different ways of putting myself out there and getting to show my experience, and show people, in a way, what can I do to help them.
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What was the format of it?
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Similar to what we're having here.
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It was three people, because it was Prachi, myself, and the guest, talking about marketing.
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So, we always had a marketing person coming in, or a branding person, or a design.
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Basically, a very friendly conversation about marketing.
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That's it.
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And that helped you on network as well?
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It helped me on getting comfortable with my English, getting comfortable being recorded, comfortable on camera.
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So, that really helped a lot.
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And then when you get the feedback from people, that's when, for me, I was like,"Okay, yes, we can do this.
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Prachi and I, we can carry on doing it." Because people were introducing, like I said, us to other people that they trust.
00:17:54.722 --> 00:18:00.287
So, it was just that kind of a social proof, personally and emotionally, I guess.
00:18:00.778 --> 00:18:02.961
So, you get to experiment with your own marketing.
00:18:03.066 --> 00:18:04.143
Have you tried anything else?
00:18:04.363 --> 00:18:06.638
I collaborated on a marketing book, if that counts.
00:18:07.246 --> 00:18:07.971
I should say so.
00:18:09.593 --> 00:18:12.781
So, it started because of the podcast.
00:18:12.788 --> 00:18:21.378
So we did one episode on Pret A Manger expanding to India, and the marketing strategy behind, and the pricing, and everything.
00:18:22.127 --> 00:18:39.280
One teacher, one lecturer from Brighton saw, watched the podcast, and she was writing a marketing case study book, and then she said, "Andre, would you like, and Prachi, would you like to write a case study on that to be included in the book?" I said, "Oh, my God.
00:18:39.634 --> 00:18:43.596
Yes, why not?" So we did.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.268
It was a lot of work.
00:18:45.308 --> 00:18:53.627
If only I knew how much work and effort would have to be to write a official case study and get published in a book.
00:18:53.961 --> 00:18:54.440
But we did.
00:18:54.448 --> 00:19:02.723
So yeah, I can say that, if you buy a marketing book, on a marketing, obviously, library, you can find my name there.
00:19:02.868 --> 00:19:03.491
Come on.
00:19:03.528 --> 00:19:08.261
I mean, that underlines credentials and authority in what you're doing.
00:19:08.694 --> 00:19:15.108
There was a point in this when you were feeling like you had no idea how to run a business.
00:19:15.592 --> 00:19:16.765
How's that feeling now?
00:19:18.078 --> 00:19:19.236
It feels much better.
00:19:19.915 --> 00:19:21.268
Some days, I feel the same.
00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:24.856
I was like, "Oh my God, what's happening? What I'm doing here?" Panicking a little bit.
00:19:24.898 --> 00:19:28.282
But, I guess, I will keep learning.
00:19:28.474 --> 00:19:33.837
You keep facing challenges and you learn from it, and the next time it happens, it gets better.
00:19:34.348 --> 00:19:38.817
But now, yeah, I have processes of onboarding clients.
00:19:38.817 --> 00:19:45.317
So when a client comes to me, we have a talk, and then I think it's a joint decision.
00:19:45.683 --> 00:19:52.471
Does that client fit my work, and do I fit within their brand or their company, really?
00:19:52.934 --> 00:19:57.826
So, that kind of a process is that I had to go through the beginning.
00:19:57.847 --> 00:20:02.662
They don't know how does that going to look like in six months.
00:20:02.673 --> 00:20:08.823
I can sell the project, but what I'm delivering, how do I assess, how do I measure, what KPI they're going to implement?
00:20:08.865 --> 00:20:16.065
And now, I feel much more comfortable to talk to somebody and understanding,"Okay, I can help you," or, "No, sorry, I can't.
00:20:16.325 --> 00:20:23.659
No, I can recommend you to somebody else because it's not my expertise." So, in that sense of running the business, I feel I got much better.
00:20:24.946 --> 00:20:25.336
Yeah.
00:20:25.384 --> 00:20:27.951
As you put it earlier, not every client is your client.
00:20:28.383 --> 00:20:28.960
I love that.
00:20:29.013 --> 00:20:29.348
Yeah.
00:20:29.747 --> 00:20:30.894
Put that on a T-shirt.
00:20:30.972 --> 00:20:31.325
Yes.
00:20:32.307 --> 00:20:33.301
Yeah, and it's true.
00:20:33.310 --> 00:20:35.353
It's true because at some point, there will be a clash.
00:20:35.713 --> 00:20:41.356
There will be a clash on the client expectations or the way they communicate.
00:20:41.398 --> 00:20:44.503
I had to have some tough conversation with clients.
00:20:44.532 --> 00:21:01.673
"Listen, you need to respect me. That's not the way I will let you to talk to me. And, if that's going to carry on, we better part ways here." Some tough conversations I had to learn how to do, how to have, and stand up for myself, stand up for my business.
00:21:01.736 --> 00:21:09.011
And, I had clients asking the most crazy things, and I said, "That's not how my business operate." And it felt really good.
00:21:10.721 --> 00:21:12.928
Yes, Andre! Yeah.
00:21:13.256 --> 00:21:17.909
So what do you think does make a good sort of client relationship, sort of dealing with clients?
00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:20.628
Ooh, that's a really good question.
00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:28.037
I think, obviously, everybody's different, but for me, it's somebody that understands why I started the business.
00:21:28.348 --> 00:21:33.943
So for example, if I have to sell marketing to somebody, it is already a red flag for me.
00:21:33.943 --> 00:21:34.390
It's a no.
00:21:35.038 --> 00:21:37.336
Because it's hard enough selling myself.
00:21:37.988 --> 00:21:42.730
If I still have to convince you that your business needs marketing, then no.
00:21:44.372 --> 00:21:45.601
You better go somewhere else.
00:21:46.294 --> 00:21:50.291
Because I don't want to invest the energy and time try to convince, because it will be a everyday battle.
00:21:50.625 --> 00:21:57.809
So, that's for me- It's already a big indicator that, okay, we can work together or not.
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:04.727
Some values, some way of communicating, respect has to come both ways.
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:11.503
You said that you go to a lot of networking, that that really worked and continues to work for you.
00:22:12.133 --> 00:22:15.884
What I didn't ask was, what does it actually look like?
00:22:15.903 --> 00:22:18.976
How many events are you going to a week or a month?
00:22:19.280 --> 00:22:20.025
Day, night?
00:22:20.250 --> 00:22:22.251
What's the- Oh, I can't do night events.
00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:23.192
No.
00:22:24.695 --> 00:22:26.228
So, two things.
00:22:26.238 --> 00:22:29.278
If the events are too early in the day, I don't go anymore.
00:22:30.698 --> 00:22:34.550
So some events, they are quite good, but they start at 7:00 in the morning, so I'm sorry.
00:22:34.958 --> 00:22:35.270
No.
00:22:37.107 --> 00:22:43.929
00 p.m., it's like, no, that's my time to be home, watching my games, relaxing.
00:22:44.227 --> 00:22:48.159
So, any other events that fit in between 10:00 in
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.361
00 p.m., that works well for me.
00:22:53.709 --> 00:22:54.891
It's a good problem to have.
00:22:54.923 --> 00:23:02.112
I'm quite busy with work, so I'm literally just attending the events that I organize, so basically that one once a month.
00:23:03.172 --> 00:23:16.068
Over the last eight to 10 months, I had to really choose where I spend my time between working on my business or working on client projects, so now I have to really prioritize the clients.
00:23:16.888 --> 00:23:21.818
Yeah, as an independent business, there's only so many days a month that I can work.
00:23:21.824 --> 00:23:25.394
There's only so many hours I can work, so there's only so many clients I can take in.
00:23:26.237 --> 00:23:27.859
So, I really need to be careful.
00:23:27.861 --> 00:23:29.126
But I still have a pipeline of clients.
00:23:29.134 --> 00:23:30.132
I learned that the hard way.
00:23:31.402 --> 00:23:32.000
Yes.
00:23:33.001 --> 00:23:37.997
Well, I like the fact that you're not working after 6:00 p.m. by the sounds of it.
00:23:38.009 --> 00:23:39.971
So your work/life balance is pretty good, is it?
00:23:40.036 --> 00:23:40.575
It is.
00:23:40.676 --> 00:23:50.566
It is because when I decided to start the business, I had this vision of, if I want to take a Friday off, I'll take a Friday off.
00:23:51.073 --> 00:23:57.346
If I want to, I don't know, work tomorrow from 10:00 in the morning, I will do that.
00:23:57.871 --> 00:24:13.750
I always try to fit in, and I think I heard that on another guest from the podcast, Steve, on your guest, fit your work calendar after your life calendar or something like… It was something on those lines, because it's true.
00:24:14.568 --> 00:24:17.606
I can sit here to work and spend 10 hours working.
00:24:18.132 --> 00:24:19.459
That's every day, I can.
00:24:19.816 --> 00:24:22.085
It's not that I don't have work, but I need to organize.
00:24:22.087 --> 00:24:23.049
You need to be organized.
00:24:23.435 --> 00:24:26.852
Otherwise, I'm just going to let the work take over my life.
00:24:27.634 --> 00:24:29.467
"Schedule life first".
00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:30.318
That's it.
00:24:30.348 --> 00:24:31.234
That's this, yeah.
00:24:31.989 --> 00:24:37.550
It's one of my favorite quotes from Rachel Ramsey, and yeah, I try to cling to that as well.
00:24:37.907 --> 00:24:39.557
Put life in your calendar first.
00:24:39.557 --> 00:24:43.615
In fact, Helen said something similar on a few episodes ago.
00:24:44.324 --> 00:24:48.260
How about taking time off?
00:24:48.874 --> 00:24:51.373
It's an ongoing struggle.
00:24:52.642 --> 00:24:54.778
It always feels wrong for me.
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:55.844
It's still weird.
00:24:56.493 --> 00:25:02.128
It feels wrong taking time off because I create this relationship with my clients so they can count on me.
00:25:02.974 --> 00:25:06.224
I'm always available on my phone or WhatsApp, or email.
00:25:07.094 --> 00:25:11.349
So taking time off from it, it's strange.
00:25:11.719 --> 00:25:15.601
It's probably been three years that I have not switched off completely.
00:25:16.163 --> 00:25:27.209
If I'm traveling, or I always have my laptop with me, so I go to Brazil for two weeks, I take my laptop, because if something happens, I need to be able to work and help my clients when the problem happens.
00:25:27.709 --> 00:25:35.273
But I always try to take a week, so say, I'm not working this week, but I'm available.
00:25:35.569 --> 00:25:41.507
So it's an interesting for me, and it's something that I probably still need to work on, is that it's okay to take time off.
00:25:42.407 --> 00:25:43.914
Take two weeks off, and it's okay.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.818
The business will survive, both sides, clients and mine.
00:25:48.238 --> 00:25:48.893
You would hope.
00:25:49.365 --> 00:25:56.701
I have some trips coming, so looking forward to those as well, and I will have to take 10 days off for sure.
00:25:56.992 --> 00:25:57.428
Nice.
00:25:57.464 --> 00:25:58.650
Well, enjoy those days.
00:25:59.007 --> 00:26:04.561
And have you had any sort of business coach or mentoring or anything like that along the way?
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:05.625
Not officially.
00:26:07.617 --> 00:26:12.259
Like I said, I had this support networking group.
00:26:12.326 --> 00:26:19.123
So, for example, it was a friend of a friend that we had a good relationship, that I could always go and ask some questions.
00:26:20.643 --> 00:26:32.477
Again, tapping back on the freelance community, people that I met that had a business, and I could message them, say, "Hey, I'm struggling with this. What do you think?" So, I was never scared to ask.
00:26:33.969 --> 00:26:35.805
If you don't ask, you don't get, basically.
00:26:35.931 --> 00:26:50.979
So, never had an official coach, but had people that I trusted, and we created this really good work relationship that I could go and ask them questions about marketing, about running a business, and I have.
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:51.664
I always have.
00:26:52.218 --> 00:26:56.763
Yeah, so as you heard, Andre is part of the Being Freelance Community.
00:26:56.845 --> 00:26:58.022
Such a lovely guy.
00:26:58.102 --> 00:27:00.584
It's been a pleasure to get to know him over the past few years.
00:27:01.012 --> 00:27:02.797
And you can come and hang out with us too.
00:27:02.829 --> 00:27:04.558
Go to beingfreelance.com.
00:27:04.627 --> 00:27:08.558
Seriously, it makes such a difference being surrounded by others who get it.
00:27:08.570 --> 00:27:14.390
We do weekly online co-working, plenty of other events as well, both online and in real life, as you heard.
00:27:15.174 --> 00:27:17.505
He came along to our mini golf day.
00:27:17.569 --> 00:27:24.480
He's also made friends in there and found work in there, and this happens again and again and again, especially when you join us and you get involved.
00:27:24.492 --> 00:27:32.238
So, if you want a place to ask questions, to celebrate your wins, and hang out with other freelancers, come find us at beingfreelance.com.
00:27:32.306 --> 00:27:34.318
Click on Community.
00:27:35.174 --> 00:27:38.463
Okay, speaking of Andre, let's get back to his story.
00:27:39.563 --> 00:27:46.647
Now, Andre, I always do this thing where I ask for three facts about yourself, make two true, one a lie, and let me figure out the lie.
00:27:46.813 --> 00:27:47.795
What have you got for me?
00:27:48.192 --> 00:27:52.738
I'm just pretending that I didn't have this written in my book for the last five years, but hey.
00:27:54.327 --> 00:27:54.568
No.
00:27:55.277 --> 00:27:56.364
So, first one.
00:27:56.872 --> 00:28:05.178
I got once booked to play a DJ set at Ministry of Sound in London, which is one of the most iconic clubs in the world.
00:28:06.561 --> 00:28:15.294
Second one is, I got lost once hiking in Kent and had to be rescued by the National Trust team.
00:28:17.303 --> 00:28:31.113
And the third one is, I was doing a skydiving course, and I had a problem with my parachute, and I never skydived again.
00:28:31.554 --> 00:28:31.980
All right.
00:28:32.041 --> 00:28:33.279
Okay, we're starting there.
00:28:33.329 --> 00:28:35.931
Where were you learning to skydive, and what the heck happened?
00:28:36.348 --> 00:28:43.864
That was back in Brazil, and my parachute didn't action, so I had to cut and use the emergency one.
00:28:44.402 --> 00:28:46.260
Oh my God.
00:28:47.344 --> 00:28:49.414
Were you by yourself or with somebody else?
00:28:49.513 --> 00:28:50.573
It was a solo jump.
00:28:51.140 --> 00:28:53.432
A solo jump, and your chute didn't open?
00:28:53.451 --> 00:28:53.980
Yes.
00:28:54.568 --> 00:28:55.794
So what do you mean you had to cut?
00:28:55.902 --> 00:28:56.750
Cut it off?
00:28:56.825 --> 00:29:05.587
Yeah, so you have a lever or a string that you pull, and- Yeah… it literally cuts the main parachute, and then you action the emergency one.
00:29:06.027 --> 00:29:08.625
So that the emergency one can't get caught up in the other one?
00:29:08.631 --> 00:29:09.788
Yeah, basically.
00:29:09.791 --> 00:29:10.080
Yeah.
00:29:10.893 --> 00:29:12.049
Oh my God.
00:29:14.219 --> 00:29:14.815
Okay.
00:29:14.961 --> 00:29:19.163
Now, dare I say it, that sounds a little bit more dramatic than getting lost in Kent.
00:29:19.833 --> 00:29:27.195
Kent, if you're listening around the world, is a very sedate part of England just south of London.
00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:31.022
It's where they grow apple trees and things like that.
00:29:33.003 --> 00:29:37.403
It's not like the Scottish Highlands or something like that, or the Brazilian jungle.
00:29:38.032 --> 00:29:41.451
So, how did you get lost hiking in Kent?
00:29:42.289 --> 00:29:52.846
Basically, I tried to be a bit more adventurous and not use Google Maps, so I print out the PDF with directions and where to turn and where to go.
00:29:54.215 --> 00:29:57.868
It was winter, so it got dark fairly quick.
00:29:59.326 --> 00:30:03.480
And my phone died, so I could not even ask for help.
00:30:03.482 --> 00:30:27.471
So, I was just following this track, and I got lost for about three hours, and eventually I found this castle, and-… and the team said, "Are you okay? Are you lost?" And I think they saw the state of me, and then they rescued me and drove me to the station.
00:30:28.529 --> 00:30:40.090
What doesn't quite ring true is, it would be very hard to be lost in Kent for three hours and not come across anything, i.e., houses, a pub, a road.
00:30:40.233 --> 00:30:41.795
This isn't the Grand Canyon.
00:30:42.500 --> 00:30:43.419
It's Kent.
00:30:44.423 --> 00:30:54.324
And then, for the first thing you stumble across to be a castle?! And yet, clearly, yes, they do have castles in Kent.
00:30:55.586 --> 00:30:57.328
That just sounds ridiculous.
00:30:59.672 --> 00:31:00.285
Okay.
00:31:00.575 --> 00:31:06.230
Now, the next one was, you DJ'd at the Ministry of Sound.
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:08.490
I got booked for it, yeah.
00:31:08.981 --> 00:31:09.163
Yeah.
00:31:09.163 --> 00:31:10.038
Oh, but you never did it?
00:31:10.117 --> 00:31:10.994
I didn't do, no.
00:31:10.994 --> 00:31:11.715
It didn't happen.
00:31:11.998 --> 00:31:13.480
What event were you booked for?
00:31:13.768 --> 00:31:17.865
The Ministry of Sound is booking, I don't know, David Guetta or something.
00:31:18.633 --> 00:31:22.910
No disrespect, but how did you get booked, and how did it not happen?
00:31:24.222 --> 00:31:26.073
It didn't happen because of COVID.
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:27.784
Oh.
00:31:27.820 --> 00:31:29.547
Yeah, which was a shame.
00:31:29.670 --> 00:31:40.534
And, it was through a DJ music production course in London that I got to meet people and, yeah, that's pretty much it.
00:31:40.903 --> 00:31:41.549
Oh, I don't know.
00:31:41.570 --> 00:31:48.327
This could be true, especially if you're saying COVID, because this kind of plays into your timeline.
00:31:49.248 --> 00:31:50.631
These are great stories.
00:31:52.192 --> 00:31:54.462
Each of them ridiculous in their own way.
00:31:56.307 --> 00:32:07.000
There is so much I don't believe about the castle story, like I have said, and yet, maybe your memory is embellishing it.
00:32:07.078 --> 00:32:11.250
Maybe you really did get lost, and you did come across a castle, and they did help you.
00:32:13.178 --> 00:32:15.022
I don't believe it was for three hours, though.
00:32:15.866 --> 00:32:19.083
Unless you're really good at going round in circles.
00:32:20.201 --> 00:32:21.398
I have hiked in Kent.
00:32:21.451 --> 00:32:23.198
I just don't think it's possible.
00:32:23.958 --> 00:32:28.887
But what a story to tell people back in Brazil, that it was a castle that you ended up in.
00:32:29.862 --> 00:32:30.904
And there are castles.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.713
That is true.
00:32:31.746 --> 00:32:33.532
Okay, Ministry of Sound DJ.
00:32:33.538 --> 00:32:41.556
Yes, of course, that's possible, and not everybody who plays the Ministry of Sound is a big name DJ.
00:32:41.596 --> 00:32:44.067
They have other people on the lineups.
00:32:45.997 --> 00:32:49.105
And then the skydive one is terrifying.
00:32:49.595 --> 00:32:51.896
Kind of feels like that's probably true.
00:32:53.644 --> 00:32:54.080
No.
00:32:54.171 --> 00:32:54.849
Do you know what?
00:32:54.862 --> 00:32:59.929
The one I have poured the most scorn on is the one I really should say isn't true.
00:33:00.305 --> 00:33:02.750
So, I reckon the DJ is, the skydive is.
00:33:02.842 --> 00:33:07.799
I don't think he got lost in Kent and got rescued at a castle by the National Trust.
00:33:08.161 --> 00:33:08.862
That's the lie.
00:33:09.028 --> 00:33:09.646
Okay.
00:33:10.442 --> 00:33:12.537
Yeah, you're wrong.
00:33:14.056 --> 00:33:15.434
That is absolutely true.
00:33:17.574 --> 00:33:19.942
I'm so ashamed of saying it, but yes.
00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:23.148
I got lost, and all the facts were true.
00:33:23.211 --> 00:33:26.972
I was lost for three hours in a wood, in these woods in Kent.
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:42.535
Couldn't find my bearings, couldn't find a way out of it, and I literally had to listen for any sound, and I was following the sounds of a motorway, apparently, and then I found this little country lane.
00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:44.839
It sounds ridiculous.
00:33:44.854 --> 00:33:46.083
And there was a castle, yes.
00:33:46.092 --> 00:33:47.939
There was a National Trust castle, yes.
00:33:49.244 --> 00:33:51.146
That is ridiculous.
00:33:51.555 --> 00:33:52.201
Yes.
00:33:52.278 --> 00:33:55.807
To come out of the wood lost- Honestly… and find a castle.
00:33:55.923 --> 00:33:58.320
Also, sorry, castles are quite big.
00:33:58.330 --> 00:34:01.063
You would have thought you would have seen it in the distance.
00:34:02.563 --> 00:34:03.478
It was terrifying.
00:34:04.749 --> 00:34:07.660
No phone, winter, and yeah, lost in the woods.
00:34:08.375 --> 00:34:09.097
Okay.
00:34:09.365 --> 00:34:10.608
The DJ is a lie.
00:34:12.036 --> 00:34:13.097
It's true as well.
00:34:13.188 --> 00:34:14.525
Oh my God.
00:34:14.938 --> 00:34:17.637
I'm so bad today.
00:34:17.641 --> 00:34:17.905
You've totally got me.
00:34:18.215 --> 00:34:24.385
In between the time of practicing my English, getting to know people, I did a music production course in Camden.
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:32.864
And as part of the course, they book some students to play a Ministry of Sound, and it didn't happen because of COVID.
00:34:33.951 --> 00:34:38.505
So the skydive- Yeah… was… Have you even skydived?
00:34:38.521 --> 00:34:38.987
Never.
00:34:39.025 --> 00:34:40.351
I'm a… Never.
00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:45.559
Never.
00:34:45.913 --> 00:34:48.940
And I don't think I ever will, for the obvious reasons.
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:52.090
Wow.
00:34:52.128 --> 00:34:53.476
You well and truly win that one.
00:34:53.994 --> 00:34:59.326
Now, Andre, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
00:34:59.811 --> 00:35:00.610
Just do it.
00:35:01.177 --> 00:35:02.632
Just go for it.
00:35:03.010 --> 00:35:03.831
It will work out.
00:35:04.431 --> 00:35:05.023
Just go for it.
00:35:05.023 --> 00:35:06.981
You have everything that you need, so go for it.
00:35:07.659 --> 00:35:08.981
There is no coming back, Andre.
00:35:10.092 --> 00:35:10.952
One quick thing.
00:35:11.644 --> 00:35:18.010
I noticed on your LinkedIn that you have the word fractional mentioned.
00:35:18.452 --> 00:35:20.706
So I've tried quite a few things.
00:35:21.393 --> 00:35:23.483
I've tried part-time marketing manager.
00:35:23.815 --> 00:35:26.246
I've tried CMO.
00:35:27.034 --> 00:35:35.288
So I've tried part-time, I've tried CMO, I've tried freelancer marketing manager, and fractional marketing manager.
00:35:36.072 --> 00:35:43.902
And I did a few tests, a trial with those at network events and online events, and even marketing there on a blog, for example.
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:53.804
Fractional had the best… People were much more comfortable talking to me as a fractional marketing manager than a CMO.
00:35:53.965 --> 00:36:01.615
CMO, I've always had people telling me, "Okay, so you might be too expensive for me." That was the common- So CMO being chief marketing officer?
00:36:01.637 --> 00:36:01.994
Yeah.
00:36:02.403 --> 00:36:10.655
People quite often said,"Oh, okay, so you might be too expensive for me. Might be out of my budget." But it doesn't mean as a fractional marketing manager, I'm not.
00:36:10.896 --> 00:36:14.416
It's just that the feeling from the word.
00:36:15.369 --> 00:36:20.942
A freelance marketing manager, I didn't get much traction when I presented that.
00:36:22.567 --> 00:36:26.411
But yeah, fractional is just a word that worked for me, for my audience, if you like.
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:29.278
Yeah, I think that's important, isn't it?
00:36:30.099 --> 00:36:33.802
If that's the word that people are looking for and that they respond to.
00:36:34.291 --> 00:36:35.260
Yeah, they did, yeah.
00:36:35.293 --> 00:36:39.762
And I think fractional is quite clear, the interaction.
00:36:40.175 --> 00:36:43.070
They can have me for as many days as they want in a month.
00:36:43.572 --> 00:36:48.467
So it's quite clear within the title that that's what I do.
00:36:48.469 --> 00:36:50.813
So I'm not full-time, I'm not just theirs.
00:36:51.210 --> 00:36:55.418
I can do as much as long as they need me, really.
00:36:55.791 --> 00:36:57.275
Andre, it's been so good to talk to you.
00:36:57.275 --> 00:36:58.333
Thank you so much.
00:36:58.371 --> 00:36:59.601
Go to beingfreelance.com.
00:36:59.603 --> 00:37:05.757
There will be links through so we can find Andre online, both his website, go say hi on LinkedIn as well.
00:37:07.056 --> 00:37:08.664
That's something I didn't actually ask you, though.
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:15.157
Do you do a lot on social media, or it feels like it's much more in person?
00:37:15.608 --> 00:37:16.454
Yes, you're right.
00:37:16.454 --> 00:37:16.682
Yeah.
00:37:16.711 --> 00:37:17.586
It is more in person.
00:37:18.824 --> 00:37:20.782
My social media is really horrible.
00:37:20.782 --> 00:37:24.471
I shouldn't say that, but I do more for my clients than for myself.
00:37:25.704 --> 00:37:26.463
That's interesting.
00:37:26.463 --> 00:37:29.833
Yeah, but it's, again, it's you paying attention to what works for you- Yeah… I guess.
00:37:29.902 --> 00:37:33.782
And what takes more effort from me and from my business.
00:37:33.797 --> 00:37:41.606
So for me to sit down and plan and strategize my LinkedIn, for example, takes me more effort than going to a network event and talking.
00:37:42.235 --> 00:37:45.106
It's just the way it works for me, I guess.
00:37:45.385 --> 00:37:48.563
But do you use LinkedIn to stay in touch with the people you might meet at the marketing event?
00:37:48.579 --> 00:37:49.456
100%, yeah.
00:37:49.460 --> 00:37:49.893
Build networking.
00:37:49.905 --> 00:37:50.204
Yeah.
00:37:50.240 --> 00:37:56.443
Because the magic is what happens after the network event, not so much on the day or the morning.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:58.655
It's how do you keep in touch with those people?
00:37:58.721 --> 00:38:01.887
So that's why I mainly use LinkedIn, for the messaging side.
00:38:02.382 --> 00:38:03.869
Anyway, listen, I've got to let you go.
00:38:04.494 --> 00:38:07.061
Andre, thank you so much.
00:38:07.074 --> 00:38:08.268
Real joy.
00:38:08.309 --> 00:38:11.784
We need to put another mini golf date in the diary, quite clearly.
00:38:11.784 --> 00:38:13.711
Let's do that in early 2027.
00:38:13.715 --> 00:38:16.648
But for now, thanks so much, and all the best being freelance.
00:38:16.713 --> 00:38:17.143
Brilliant.
00:38:17.202 --> 00:38:17.690
Thanks, Steve.
00:38:17.702 --> 00:38:18.516
Thank you for having me.
00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:19.085
It was a pleasure.
00:38:21.704 --> 00:38:22.163
That's it.
00:38:22.501 --> 00:38:23.306
How good is Andre?
00:38:23.367 --> 00:38:26.217
I knew you two would get on like a house on fire.
00:38:26.375 --> 00:38:27.119
Oh, I knew it.
00:38:27.121 --> 00:38:30.842
You should come join us in the Being Freelance Community and get to know him even better.
00:38:31.389 --> 00:38:37.239
That's where I'll be hanging out this week, as ever, as well as on Instagram@beingfreelance and on LinkedIn.
00:38:37.289 --> 00:38:38.833
Come connect with me there.
00:38:39.447 --> 00:38:41.918
Also, are you getting my freelancer emails?
00:38:42.027 --> 00:38:42.909
I'd love it if you did.
00:38:43.434 --> 00:38:49.833
Go to beingfreelance.com and put your email address in, and I'll be sending them your way in no time.
00:38:49.954 --> 00:38:52.047
Hey, if you don't like it, you can always unsubscribe.
00:38:52.222 --> 00:38:53.351
Like, don't tell me.
00:38:53.445 --> 00:38:54.253
I'll be injured.
00:38:54.344 --> 00:38:55.275
I don't check these things.
00:38:56.791 --> 00:38:58.278
It crushes me too much.
00:38:58.574 --> 00:39:01.246
All right, back with another one of these very soon indeed.
00:39:01.255 --> 00:39:04.333
You have a great week being freelance.