WEBVTT
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00:00:01.199Get those costumes ready.
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00:00:12.880Trunk Retreat is back at NBC on Saturday, October 24th from 3 to 5 p.m., bring the whole family for an afternoon of decorated trunks, games, crafts, snacks, and of course, plenty of candy.
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00:00:16.399We'll also have an early VIP access at 2.30 p.m.
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00:00:18.399for children and families with special needs.
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00:00:24.879We're partnering with Street Hope Alive again this year to collect winter coats, hoodies, gloves, and hats for local kids and teens.
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00:00:27.920So bring a donation and help us share some warmth with our community.
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00:00:28.879Want to get involved?
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00:00:33.520We're looking for volunteers, decorated trunks, and candy donations to help make this event possible.
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00:00:38.960Candy can be dropped off Sunday mornings in the floor or brought to the church office during weekday office hours.
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00:00:44.479To register your family, sign up to serve, or learn more, visit the Trunk or Tree page on the NBC website.
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00:00:47.200And don't forget to invite your friends and your neighbors.
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00:00:49.600We'll see you on October 24th.
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00:00:58.799It's mid-October and the weather is still warm.
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00:01:06.000We're enjoying some uh sunny days, and we're also enjoying getting back into the podcast habit with you.
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00:01:11.840I'm here with my colleague, Pastor Bob, who has some merch that I think you feel like you might want to.
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00:01:19.200If you are interested in a Millington Baptist Church hoodie, Pastor Bob, where can we get that kind of um those threads?
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00:01:27.519I think if you just go, if you just come up and you stop by Amy Huber's office, I'm sure she would have some fun gear to just pass out.
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00:01:30.000Um, or if not, I think there's a link on the website.
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00:01:33.920You can go and uh and buy some MBC gear that I uh gear there.
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00:01:40.640I saw somebody on Sunday wearing another sweatshirt with the NBC logo that he must have gotten from the online store.
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00:01:42.480So hey, it's a trend.
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00:01:43.840It's available.
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00:01:53.840Very good.
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00:01:54.319Indeed.
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00:01:55.040We got a great show.
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00:01:56.799Is it affordable though, Pastor Dave?
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00:01:57.359That's the question.
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00:01:58.480Available and affordable.
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00:01:59.920It's the word of the year.
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00:02:09.199We are talking a little bit about reading material, and we got a new like whole framework for our book war.
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00:02:16.000I hope that you guys are still engaging with these good resources, but Tim's got a way of making things more exciting.
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00:02:19.919And so, Tim, what's up with the book war, man?
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00:02:20.560Where are we at?
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00:02:21.759Do you got a score for us?
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00:02:22.879How do things land?
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00:02:23.439I do.
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00:02:26.960So before you talk about that, can you talk about that jug next to you?
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00:02:27.520Oh, there it is.
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00:02:28.800That wheel that's on it.
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00:02:30.879And then your Matt David is about this wheel.
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00:02:39.280This is the uh this is the wheel of feelings that is in connection with our Bucksmont counseling relationship that we have with Bucksmont.
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00:02:44.479Every time you take a sip, you have to decide how it makes you feel based on the on the wheel over there, the wheel of feel.
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00:02:45.120Precisely.
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00:02:47.520So currently, so you start from the top here.
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00:02:51.840So I guess I'm feeling happy when I narrow it down.
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00:02:54.000But yeah, it's my giant one-gallon water bottle.
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00:02:55.280One gallon?
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00:02:56.080Wow.
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00:02:58.080Less time to less time at the fill-up.
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00:03:04.000For those of you commenting and more time in the bathroom, the microplastics, that would be a way to avoid those, right?
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00:03:06.240One gallon metal water bottle would be a way to avoid those.
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00:03:09.199We did get some uh microplastic commentary on that.
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00:03:10.560They're worried about you, Pastor Dave.
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00:03:11.120That's right.
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00:03:11.520Yep.
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00:03:13.360So about the voting, yeah.
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00:03:21.280Uh Pastor Dave, you weren't here last week, but we had a record amount of votes for the book war at the introduction of our newest uh voting method.
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00:03:24.800So you're saying there's a direct correlation between my absence and the amount of votes.
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00:03:27.360No, they voted before they knew you wouldn't be on the show.
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00:03:30.960But um But since you weren't here last week, there was actually no votes.
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00:03:32.639So I think people are eager to vote.
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00:03:34.560And no entries, but they are eager to vote.
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00:03:36.240The score is currently 16 to 15.
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00:03:40.879So Pastor Dave came away with a majority of the votes last week, but still is one vote short.
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00:03:44.960So I'm really interested to see what the final score will be at the end of the year.
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00:03:46.719Still one vote short.
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00:03:48.000Okay.
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00:03:51.840So I guess you should go first then.
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00:03:55.120Let's see the winner, winner gets the ball back.
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00:03:56.960So, what do you got for us this week there?
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00:04:14.319All right, so the book that I am uh placing into the entry is by author Jordan Rayner, who wrote a book called Redeeming Your Time, which was a wonderful um uh distillation of a lot of books on time management, and I thought he did a great job with that.
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00:04:17.920That was beneficial to me a few years ago when I was on sabbatical.
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00:04:26.160Uh he's he's written other books, and the one of the latest books he's written is something called The Sacredness of Secular Work.
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00:04:33.120The sacredness of secular work, four ways your job matters for eternity, even when you're not sharing the gospel.
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00:04:35.600So here's the tag on the back.
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00:04:38.160He says, Does your work matter for eternity?
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00:04:40.639Sadly, most believers don't think so.
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00:04:51.040Sure, the one percent of the uh of the time they spend sharing the gospel with their co-workers matters, but most Christians view the other 99% of their time as meaning very little in the grand scheme of things.
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00:04:52.720But that's not how God sees it.
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00:05:11.680And so he goes on in this book to talk about how a low regard for work limits limits our understanding of God and his kingdom, inspiring ways your work can reveal God's kingdom on earth, here and now, surprising strategies for ensuring vocation has an eternal legacy, and vital insights on what God's view of work tells us about heaven.
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00:05:21.279So there's there's been a number of books that have been put out recently on the importance of work, uh, and maybe that's because uh people, maybe younger people, think work doesn't matter as much.
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00:05:25.759Or you think, hey, I just go to work to make some money so I can do what I actually want to do.
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00:05:30.399And he makes the case in this book that um, you know what, your work does matter.
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00:05:37.199God made us to to to do work and to give him glory in the midst of that and to be productive uh for his kingdom here on earth.
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00:05:42.399And so he goes through uh four ways that um that can that can uh play out in your daily life.
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00:05:46.399So if you're a vocational person, this is probably a good book for you to pick up.
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00:05:48.720And it's not terribly long if you're not a reader.
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00:05:51.600Um I'm sure it's on audiobook as well, but here you go.
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00:05:54.399That's my my recommendation for this week.
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00:05:56.160Also, it's got a pretty cool cover.
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00:05:59.439Kind of connects with that world venture 360 stuff too.
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00:06:00.319Uh it does.
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00:06:08.879You know, I should have brought some of those cards down, but yeah, so using your natural abilities to be a platform and leverage point for sharing the gospel.
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00:06:10.720Very good.
00:06:10.959 -->
00:06:24.240For my turn today, I'm gonna recommend uh a classic book called the Book of Pastoral Rule by Gregory the Great, also known as Pope Gregory the Great or Saint Gregory the Great.
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00:06:28.800It was written around 590 AD, around the same time that he became Pope.
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00:06:33.680Um, he was one of the most important leaders in the early church, in the Western Church.
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00:06:44.000And Gregory um wrote a book that was popular for about a thousand years before our time when you've never heard of it.
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00:06:49.680So this book was written and like copied and copied and copied for a millennium.
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00:07:00.639Uh, there's a church historian named Mark Knoll who said for nearly a thousand years, the Western Church's principal guide to pastoral counseling was this book right here by Gregory the Great.
00:07:00.800 -->
00:07:05.120And I never read it before until about two weeks ago.
00:07:05.439 -->
00:07:07.120This is an awesome book.
00:07:07.360 -->
00:07:18.720Um, what it is, is it's a guide towards spirituality, but it's written with the perspective of spiritual leaders, mentors, pastors in mind, as kind of a handbook as to how to be a pastor.
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00:07:21.759And it has such practical wisdom.
00:07:21.920 -->
00:07:23.680You know, human nature never changes.
00:07:23.920 -->
00:07:34.399So his advice to pastors was you need to communicate to your congregation in such a way that you're hitting all of the different types of people that are in your congregation.
00:07:34.560 -->
00:07:42.319So when you preach to the proud, you have to do so in a certain way that you're also reaching those who are not struggling with pride, but struggling with other things.
00:07:42.480 -->
00:07:50.879And the thesis, I think, in this book is that pastoral ministry involves the balancing of opposites.
00:07:51.040 -->
00:07:58.000And so to be a pastor, you have to be both active in the world and sort of like made to multiply stuff, serving on the city relief bus.
00:07:58.480 -->
00:08:04.399But also you have to have a contemplative side where you're able to get away from anybody, everybody, and just get alone with God.
00:08:04.480 -->
00:08:13.759A pastor has to be able to balance both those things, you have to be detached from the world at the same time, you have to be actively engaged in the world, and that's a real struggle for pastors.
00:08:14.000 -->
00:08:17.199You have to be good with people, but you also have to be really good with ideas.
00:08:17.279 -->
00:08:24.560You have to have a really developed inner life, but you also have to have a uh a robust outer life with the responsibilities that you have.
00:08:24.800 -->
00:08:31.839So the book has like a lot of paradoxical truths in it, and he has a way of just bringing them both together.
00:08:32.080 -->
00:08:33.679And I love this book.
00:08:33.759 -->
00:08:34.559I thought it was great.
00:08:34.639 -->
00:08:36.240I think Christians should read this book.
00:08:36.399 -->
00:08:39.279It is a classic that I was unfamiliar with.
00:08:39.360 -->
00:08:42.720So the book of pastoral rule, Saint Gregory the Great, St.
00:08:42.879 -->
00:08:46.559Vlad's Press put this out within the last 20 years.
00:08:46.879 -->
00:08:49.600So he's not saying that pastors rule.
00:08:50.720 -->
00:08:54.799So there's like they're like pastors are awesome just because it's pastor appreciation.
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00:08:55.759You guys are awesome.
00:08:56.159 -->
00:09:00.159That word can be used in a few different ways, and it's confusing, right?
00:09:00.240 -->
00:09:03.919So the word rule, usually when we think of that pastors rule with an iron fist.
00:09:04.159 -->
00:09:06.399Yeah, kind of like authoritatively.
00:09:06.639 -->
00:09:08.639That's not what the word meant back then.
00:09:08.799 -->
00:09:16.720What it meant was a rule was a standard and a way of life, a way that you could um, you know, find some principles to live by.
00:09:16.799 -->
00:09:19.440That was a rule, and there was a lot of different rules going on back then.
00:09:19.519 -->
00:09:20.639They had St.
00:09:20.720 -->
00:09:22.240Gregory's rule, they also had the rule of St.
00:09:22.320 -->
00:09:22.799Benedict.
00:09:22.879 -->
00:09:30.399There were other people who were writing quote unquote rules, which is not to be confused with the third way we use that word, which is like I gotta keep all the rules.
00:09:30.720 -->
00:09:32.720That's not how the word is being used either.
00:09:32.879 -->
00:09:36.480So it's a little confusing, but you'll get it straightened out when you read the book.
00:09:36.559 -->
00:09:36.879Check it out.
00:09:37.120 -->
00:09:41.919Tim, I think you should write the uh production manager rule as a modern making a modern classic.
00:09:42.879 -->
00:09:43.200Okay.
00:09:43.679 -->
00:09:44.639So those are our books.
00:09:44.799 -->
00:09:46.240We recommend just an idea.
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00:09:48.080And you decide to track them.
00:09:48.559 -->
00:09:54.799Let us know what you think, log in and click the book that you think is the superior book.
00:09:55.039 -->
00:09:57.279Can we get more than 14 votes this time?
00:09:57.759 -->
00:09:58.399Let's get 20.
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00:10:00.559That you said that was a uh a record, right?
00:10:00.879 -->
00:10:01.039It was.
00:10:01.120 -->
00:10:02.080I want to break it every week.
00:10:02.559 -->
00:10:03.200Can we get 20 votes?
00:10:03.440 -->
00:10:03.919We want you to do this.
00:10:04.080 -->
00:10:05.360I know that we have more video.
00:10:05.840 -->
00:10:09.519Go to the comments now, click the link, and then take your vote.
00:10:09.600 -->
00:10:11.200Well, how long will that take, Tim?
00:10:11.519 -->
00:10:12.159Two seconds?
00:10:12.399 -->
00:10:13.039Quite literally.
00:10:13.120 -->
00:10:18.559Well, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple Music, you can still be listening to the show right now while you're voting.
00:10:19.039 -->
00:10:21.360Actually, I think on YouTube too, it would just open up another camera.
00:10:22.960 -->
00:10:26.000So you can just you're probably done by now.
00:10:26.320 -->
00:10:26.879Awesome.
00:10:27.039 -->
00:10:27.440Very good.
00:10:27.519 -->
00:10:31.919Well, that is our book war for this week, and the score keeps getting higher and higher.
00:10:32.159 -->
00:10:37.679And we're gonna go all the way up into like, you know, a Lakers score from the 1980s.
00:10:37.840 -->
00:10:41.600Like the the prime time Lakers when they were scoring 135 points in a game.
00:10:41.679 -->
00:10:42.799That's how high we're going, right?
00:10:43.360 -->
00:10:50.320Our last episode Prophetic Street Theater episode had 93 views uh and only 14 votes.
00:10:50.399 -->
00:10:53.360So I think there's a lot of you out there that are consuming and not voting.
00:10:53.679 -->
00:10:54.159That's true.
00:10:54.320 -->
00:10:56.159Hey, if you're gonna consume, you gotta vote.
00:10:56.399 -->
00:10:56.720Yeah.
00:10:57.039 -->
00:11:04.159This spring, the Contend Conference returns to Millington Baptist Church, running from April 23rd through the 25th of 2027.
00:11:04.320 -->
00:11:06.799This year's theme will be foundations of the faith.
00:11:06.960 -->
00:11:14.000In Matthew 7, Jesus compares the person who hears his words and puts them into practice to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
00:11:14.159 -->
00:11:20.720That's the heart of this year's conference, building lives, families, and the next generation on a foundation that can actually hold.
00:11:20.879 -->
00:11:30.320The content conference will help believers recognize the shifting stands of culture, grow in biblical discernment, and think clearly about the questions families and churches are facing today.
00:11:30.480 -->
00:11:37.039This year's speakers include Brett and Aaron Kunkel, Elizabeth Urvandemitz, Monique Dusan, Kristen Bontrager, and more.
00:11:37.200 -->
00:11:43.759Registration is live now, so visit the NBC website to learn more and to register for the Content Conference 2027.
00:11:44.080 -->
00:11:44.480Alright.
00:11:44.559 -->
00:11:49.200Well, we were moving on to the next part of our show, and that is where you take part in the show.
00:11:49.279 -->
00:11:50.639This is this is like your moment.
00:11:50.799 -->
00:11:52.159So we have audience questions.
00:11:52.320 -->
00:11:53.679Tim, I know we have a few.
00:11:53.759 -->
00:11:54.879How do you want to handle this today?
00:11:55.120 -->
00:11:56.879We're gonna go one at a time.
00:11:57.039 -->
00:11:59.519Uh I think we have one.
00:12:00.080 -->
00:12:01.200We'll we'll go.
00:12:01.600 -->
00:12:04.320We'll take our two John Rickershauser questions first.
00:12:05.519 -->
00:12:05.919All right.
00:12:06.000 -->
00:12:08.480And then John, bring in the quest, bring in the heat.
00:12:08.720 -->
00:12:14.000Uh well, no, actually, Pastor Bob, you said one of them ties in with your sermon recap, right?
00:12:14.559 -->
00:12:17.440Uh it does, but I can answer it at the opening here.
00:12:17.840 -->
00:12:18.080Okay.
00:12:18.320 -->
00:12:21.279Um as a little preview for what we're gonna cover.
00:12:21.600 -->
00:12:21.840Okay.
00:12:22.159 -->
00:12:26.480So let's you can do the other two questions and then we could do that as like a lead-in.
00:12:26.720 -->
00:12:27.600So lead in for the segment.
00:12:27.840 -->
00:12:31.840So we will John, you will be our bookends for this segment.
00:12:32.000 -->
00:12:36.720So our first question is uh from a couple weeks ago, we had to punt it.
00:12:36.799 -->
00:12:37.440Uh so here it is.
00:12:37.600 -->
00:12:47.919When Ezekiel talks of the how do you how the Hebar Canal, perhaps he is living in the city of Nippertelabib, which is five eighty-seven miles from Jerusalem.
00:12:48.159 -->
00:13:02.000Is he prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem for exiles living with him for their reckoning of what they have escaped from, and to take heed in hopes that it will redirect their minds and life to worship the Lord?
00:13:02.320 -->
00:13:05.039Can you say Niperteleb five times fast?
00:13:05.360 -->
00:13:09.600Nipper telebeeb, niper telebeeb, niper telebeeb, niper telebeeb, nippertelib.
00:13:09.919 -->
00:13:10.320That's talent.
00:13:10.399 -->
00:13:11.279That's talent right there.
00:13:11.519 -->
00:13:15.440I think that's a fruitful question and a way to understand Ezekiel's ministry.
00:13:15.519 -->
00:13:20.480And I I think I agree with you, John, just with a few maybe qualifications.
00:13:20.639 -->
00:13:23.519So so remember Ezekiel went first.
00:13:23.679 -->
00:13:29.519He was part of the exile group from 597 BC, and he lived amongst the people there in Tel Aviv.
00:13:29.679 -->
00:13:33.279Not to be confused with the current Tel Aviv, which is an Israel totally different location.
00:13:33.840 -->
00:13:40.799Um so I'd be cautious about identifying his settlement specifically with Nippur.
00:13:40.879 -->
00:13:42.080I'm not totally sure.
00:13:42.159 -->
00:13:47.120There wasn't a precise location given there or a precise distance given between that and Jerusalem.
00:13:47.200 -->
00:13:48.960So maybe, John, maybe I don't know.
00:13:49.120 -->
00:13:50.799I have to look that up a little bit.
00:13:51.039 -->
00:13:57.600Um so you said three purposes uh number one to correct their understanding of God's judgment, right?
00:13:57.759 -->
00:14:01.120Is that do I remember that from the the what were you surmising?
00:14:01.440 -->
00:14:02.639Tim, could you repeat that?
00:14:02.720 -->
00:14:03.840Yeah, repeat the question.
00:14:04.480 -->
00:14:18.720Um is his prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem for the exiles living with him for their reckoning of what they have escaped from, and to take heed in hopes that it would redirect their minds and life to the worship of the Lord.
00:14:19.200 -->
00:14:19.519Okay.
00:14:20.320 -->
00:14:27.120I I mean, if those people living around Ezekiel were the primary audience, then perhaps that's a good way to think about it.
00:14:27.279 -->
00:14:31.519That they um in a way escaped from God's judgment.
00:14:31.679 -->
00:14:33.120In a way they didn't, though, John, right?
00:14:33.200 -->
00:14:34.480Because they got exiled.
00:14:34.559 -->
00:14:36.720They're over there being accountable.
00:14:37.519 -->
00:14:40.399That's not exactly escaping God's judgment, having to go over there.
00:14:40.559 -->
00:14:43.360It seems like exile was a uh consequence of their actions, right?
00:14:43.679 -->
00:14:43.759Right.
00:14:43.919 -->
00:14:56.480So yeah, they survived Jerusalem des Jerusalem's destruction, they weren't part of the sword cutting up the hair, but they were not automatically like righteous or something just because they had been deported.
00:14:56.720 -->
00:15:03.440So I don't know uh exactly how to be they got pulled by the man bun out to Babylon.
00:15:03.840 -->
00:15:05.039Ezekiel did, right?
00:15:05.600 -->
00:15:09.279But I think the the the question is still well taken.
00:15:09.360 -->
00:15:15.039I think Ezekiel's prophesying in a way to say, hey, this is serious, this is happening to your friends and neighbors over there.
00:15:15.279 -->
00:15:16.960God's judgment is severe.
00:15:17.440 -->
00:15:20.240And to redirect their hearts toward repentance.
00:15:20.399 -->
00:15:21.519I think that's good too.
00:15:21.679 -->
00:15:26.159Um but let's remember that God's judgment wasn't the end of his message.
00:15:26.399 -->
00:15:30.320He also uh had a message of promise, has a has a message of restoration.
00:15:30.879 -->
00:15:39.759And so they're not his you you're you're you're touching on one of the purposes of Ezekiel's prophecies, but I think there's multiple purposes there.
00:15:40.320 -->
00:15:48.240Being grateful for not being part of Jerusalem's destruction is one of them, but there's also um some other nuances to what they're receiving there.
00:15:48.320 -->
00:15:49.519That's why I take it that.
00:15:49.840 -->
00:15:50.000Yeah.
00:15:50.399 -->
00:15:51.039Good question, John.
00:15:51.440 -->
00:15:51.759Very good.
00:15:51.919 -->
00:15:52.879Let's go with another one, too.
00:15:53.120 -->
00:15:53.360All right.
00:15:53.679 -->
00:15:59.360Our next question, I think, might end up getting influencing the title of this episode.
00:15:59.519 -->
00:16:12.320I think this is this is a big question, and that is taking into account how the apostolic church understood the Lord's Supper is the most biblical view, one of purely symbolic elements.
00:16:12.480 -->
00:16:14.799And that was asked by our friend Ferris Fanick.
00:16:15.519 -->
00:16:19.519We had somebody else breaking the wall of John John asking questions.
00:16:19.679 -->
00:16:19.840Yeah.
00:16:20.080 -->
00:16:22.080A non-John question right here.
00:16:22.639 -->
00:16:31.679So our articles of faith say we believe the Lord's Supper, communion, is a commemoration of the Lord Savior's death, and through participating, we can proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
00:16:32.080 -->
00:16:34.080You're asking a really good question, Ferris.
00:16:34.320 -->
00:16:36.480You should know there's four views on communion.
00:16:36.639 -->
00:16:37.840Tim, if you could put that slide up.
00:16:37.919 -->
00:16:42.879So there's a transubstantiation view, that's the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox masses, the literal body and blood.
00:16:43.120 -->
00:16:47.919The consubstantiation view, the Lutheran view, Christ's body and blood are found in with and under the bread and wine.
00:16:48.320 -->
00:17:02.799Spiritual presence view, which is more reformed, Christ is present spiritually in a unique way, and then the memorial view, which is Zwinglian, it's a time just for remembrance only, also called the um Zwinglian view, or you know how Jesus says, do this in remembrance of me.
00:17:03.759 -->
00:17:15.440So this is a trick, a tricky question to answer, and I think um I just want to read a couple excerpts from church history that make this more complicated than sometimes we realize it is.
00:17:15.680 -->
00:17:29.680So um the uh number one, uh the the early church was being falsely accused of slaughtering uh infants and cannibalism, right?
00:17:29.920 -->
00:17:33.839So they must have for communion, they were eating babies for communion?
00:17:34.319 -->
00:17:35.839They misunderstood accusation?
00:17:36.160 -->
00:17:43.839Yeah, they misunderstood what the Paschal feast, what communion was, and so outsiders were saying, What are you eating?
00:17:44.480 -->
00:17:58.079I don't understand what you're eating and drinking, body and blood, and they got this mis there was a false accusation that we are uh there's a there's a grotesque misunderstanding about what communion was from the outsiders.
00:17:58.160 -->
00:18:03.279So some of the early church was writing to refute some of those misunderstandings, right?
00:18:04.000 -->
00:18:12.319Um John Chrysostom instructs the participants not to approach the table with polluted hands and lips.
00:18:13.200 -->
00:18:15.839Uh so right there he's saying this is a serious thing.
00:18:16.000 -->
00:18:21.039Ignatius of Antioch teaches that that this could only be administered by the bishop.
00:18:22.000 -->
00:18:30.720Uh Cyprian of Carthage uh had a long discussion about whether water was appropriate for the Eucharist when it was celebrated in the morning.
00:18:31.359 -->
00:18:38.400Uh in terms of frequency, Jerome uh saw no defined rigorous practice as to when to celebrate the Lord's Supper.
00:18:38.720 -->
00:18:44.319Basil of Caesarea encouraged daily Eucharist and took it himself four times a week.
00:18:44.720 -->
00:18:50.079Justin Martyr indicates those not able to attend for health reasons should be brought communion in their homes.
00:18:50.880 -->
00:18:59.599About the nature of the body and blood, um that is a little less clear in the early church fathers.
00:18:59.759 -->
00:19:03.200So Ignatius refers to the Eucharist as a sacrifice.
00:19:03.680 -->
00:19:13.599Uh it's also referred to as a sacrifice in the apostolic confessions, and Cyril of Jerusalem instructs the readers to judge not from taste but from faith.
00:19:14.079 -->
00:19:23.839And then Jerome speaks of the elders as those whose prayers, those through whose prayers the body and blood of Christ are produced.
00:19:24.720 -->
00:19:32.960So in the early church you start to have language that sounds like we're doing much more than just a memorial here.
00:19:33.599 -->
00:19:43.359And as they talk like that throughout church history, it sort of develops into this doctrine of transubstantiation, which you know the Roman Catholic Church teaches and still practices today.
00:19:44.640 -->
00:19:52.000But when the Reformation occurs, we begin to push back the reformers on transubstantiation for a couple reasons.
00:19:52.240 -->
00:19:58.000Okay, so first, um the word transubstantiation doesn't show up till 900 AD.
00:19:58.480 -->
00:20:02.079It doesn't become official church doctrine until 1215 AD.
00:20:02.880 -->
00:20:05.920And um we don't think it's supported in the scriptures.
00:20:06.000 -->
00:20:07.200So here's a couple reasons.
00:20:07.359 -->
00:20:10.480Number one, drinking of blood is forbidden, Leviticus chapter 17.
00:20:10.880 -->
00:20:13.039Number two, it takes Christ's words too literally.
00:20:13.279 -->
00:20:16.960Jesus oftentimes would speak with metaphors, allegories, symbols, parables.
00:20:17.359 -->
00:20:23.119Number three, uh, it misunderstands the omnipresence of Christ's deity.
00:20:23.519 -->
00:20:33.920Uh number four, there is zero indication in the New Testament that the disciples, the apostles were adoring the elements, they call it the adoration of the Eucharist.
00:20:34.319 -->
00:20:38.079We don't have any examples of this the disciples practicing it that way.
00:20:38.559 -->
00:20:52.240And then lastly, I think the thing that really is important is there's something about the finished work of Christ that's not conveyed when we have a re-sacrificing of Christ in the Mass on a regular basis.
00:20:52.400 -->
00:20:57.680So Hebrews 10 says, For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
00:20:58.000 -->
00:21:03.359So for those reasons, uh we we don't feel comfortable with the transubstantiation view.
00:21:04.000 -->
00:21:23.920However, I will say that if it's if it's a question in your mind about is the memorial view the best view, I think Tim, if you put that slide back up there, I think the last two views of the memorial view or the spiritual presence view uh would find a place uh belonging here at Millington Baptist Church.
00:21:24.160 -->
00:21:26.720I'm totally comfortable with the spiritual presence view.
00:21:27.119 -->
00:21:32.799I think that Christ can be present spiritually in a unique way when we celebrate communion.
00:21:33.440 -->
00:21:36.240And uh you can take the slide off.
00:21:36.960 -->
00:21:43.839You know, I I don't want to talk about the the meal in such a way that it it takes away all the special significance.
00:21:44.559 -->
00:21:58.640You know, the um one of the one of the quotes that stuck with me from the the guy in California at the Westminster campus in California, Michael um Horton Horton.
00:21:58.960 -->
00:22:02.400He had a quote that kind of like made sense to me.
00:22:02.559 -->
00:22:06.880Um and he was kind of poking fun a little bit at the Memorial View.
00:22:06.960 -->
00:22:19.920And he said, it seems like when I when I hear some people speak about the Memorial View, like the one place that Jesus isn't is at the Lord's table.
00:22:20.240 -->
00:22:28.400Like you know, we don't want to speak about the Memorial View in such a way that it totally discounts what's going on there.
00:22:28.799 -->
00:22:29.759That's an interesting critique.
00:22:30.160 -->
00:22:33.599Horton said that and I was like, oh wonderful We're just remembering Jesus but he ain't here.
00:22:34.640 -->
00:22:35.759Let's just be clear.
00:22:36.240 -->
00:22:43.039Jesus is definitely not in this so let's I think that that's where I think your question kind of hits the nail on the head Ferris.
00:22:43.200 -->
00:22:45.200I I would like to not make that mistake.
00:22:45.920 -->
00:22:54.240Now there's another view about the spiritual presence view that there's another aspect of the spiritual presence view that I'd like you to meditate on as I finish up this question that I'm taking way too long on.
00:22:55.200 -->
00:23:17.200So is it necessarily that Jesus is descending and being present with us or is what's happening that the believer is spiritually ascending into the presence of Christ in those moments as we are seated there in Ephesians says you know in the heavenly realm.
00:23:17.359 -->
00:23:22.079So who's who's moving locations as we celebrate communion?
00:23:22.160 -->
00:23:30.079Could it could it be maybe thought of a little differently as we enter into the presence of God in a unique way as he meets with us at the table.
00:23:30.319 -->
00:23:32.960So those are some thoughts it's a really good question.
00:23:33.200 -->
00:23:34.400It's a complicated question.
00:23:34.799 -->
00:23:36.640That's a robust answer right there.
00:23:37.119 -->
00:23:39.200Well maybe too robust.
00:23:39.279 -->
00:23:42.400So we need to move on okay it's just a question.
00:23:42.559 -->
00:23:47.920It's not meet the table the third question is a bit of a segue into the sermon but also a bit of a lighter question.
00:23:48.000 -->
00:23:59.039So maybe you could uh throw that one up there Tim yes here we go it seems also from our friend John Rickershauser it seems I have a lot of agendas without waiting on God's direction.
00:23:59.279 -->
00:24:04.400If my agenda is to go to lunch I do not ask God Lord what do you want me to eat?
00:24:04.559 -->
00:24:08.160Or do you want me to go to lunch now and then wait for his answer?
00:24:08.480 -->
00:24:08.799No.
00:24:09.039 -->
00:24:19.359I buy food I buy any food I want and then say here is my food Lord bless it to my body since I didn't get a no from God it must be okay what is the better way?
00:24:20.799 -->
00:25:36.480So we move from well I I guess we're actually talking about meals in both these questions uh but John's John's asking uh can I eat is it okay is it okay if I get lunch um which seem seems uh you know on its face a little inconsequential uh of course we need we need to eat um but I think you're asking the deeper question and of course admitting that we do have um we we do have agendas we have to uh you know examine and that was of course one of the the key application points from the sermon yesterday or two days ago that we'll get into here in a second um I put together a couple thoughts um on that that I I think might be helpful to you John so the first thing is you know in relation with Ezekiel 13 and the reason we were bringing that up is that these false prophets were claiming God's authorization for their agenda you know and maybe they actually did think that God was going to fulfill their words but certainly they had not um uh checked with him and when they say thus says the Lord God very clearly says you're saying that but I have not spoken and so I think the uh the other danger that happens there is that we can assume that because we don't get a direct no from God that that means that he approves of it.
00:25:36.640 -->
00:25:41.279So silence isn't an automatic yes we still need to examine what God is calling us to do.
00:25:41.440 -->
00:26:14.720You know I had a um I had a seminary professor um we were talking about God's will in one class and I've never forgotten his answer on this he said if you search through the scripture you'll you will see that God clearly reveals his moral will you know so places like the Ten Commandments Great Commandment uh other places but he doesn't make a promise that he's gonna always reveal his specific will in every single decision and I might say that there's some decisions that of course are bigger and more consequential than others.
00:26:15.039 -->
00:26:20.400A decision of should I go to lunch is a matter of you know getting sustenance.
00:26:21.119 -->
00:26:35.519It may be better to ask you know what should I eat in a way that's going to honor the temple that is my body you know if you want to go out and have McDonald's for three meals a day every day unendingly that that is probably not not a wise or good or maybe even a moral thing.
00:26:36.240 -->
00:26:42.640But the the point is that we should really be saturated with scripture if we are to learn his will.
00:26:43.599 -->
00:26:53.119Deuteronomy 2929 is a verse I've always found helpful here and that says the secret things belong to the Lord our God so that assumes there's some things that only God knows.
00:26:53.759 -->
00:27:08.240But then secondly it says but the things revealed you know there are some things that he has revealed to us through his revelation in his word through his son those things belong to us and to our children forever that we may do the words of this this law.
00:27:08.319 -->
00:27:14.240So there are things that God has told us um but there are some things that he keeps a secret.
00:27:14.559 -->
00:28:20.799So um maybe a couple of guardrails I would offer for you I think uh we are called to follow his revealed will you know so in regards to food there is that 1 Corinthians 10 31 talks about whatever we're doing uh eat drink uh do it to the glory of God you know receive food with thanksgiving be thankful that God has uh provided for you so maybe it's not Lord you know what do you want me to eat but it could be a question of Lord am I eating with gratitude am I eating with moderation am I am I am I being a glutton you know am I eating too much in a way that it's harming my body um uh second we should do things with wisdom so Proverbs 36 tells us that we need to be dependent on the Lord and he will direct our steps and and I think that the more that we we read the scriptures the more we uh study the more we're we're praying to the Lord and in community um the easier it is to discern you know what God will like there's certain things we don't necessarily need to pray about right away it's it becomes instinct because you know that these are the way these are the things that God has revealed to me and I just automatically know with discernment what I what I should do.
00:28:22.000 -->
00:29:56.160Third in regards to agendas I would say our our agenda should be open handed and I didn't bring up this verse in the sermon yesterday but it's definitely applicable uh in James 4 uh you know James reminds us that you know we should not always assume that we're gonna have the next day you know if the Lord wills this if the Lord wills that you know we should just assume that our lives are are a vapor and uh do the best we can um with our lives under his sovereign hand um examination of our hearts forth I think especially on bigger decisions is important and that was a little bit more of what I was where I was trying to go with some of the application that there are some major major decisions that we make that sometimes we just make them without consulting consulting God you know you know we have dreams and desires and we never put them through the the rubric of whether they align with with God's um uh with God's desires for us and then finally staying in community and that's why being part of a local church is super important and uh being part of a small group and having people speak into our lives people that know us people that can offer us uh correction uh sounding boards um uh that that all helps us to discern what is the best thing for us to do and uh bring us into alignment with God God speaks through his word he speaks through um you know others who who who uh know his word maybe better than us um so I think that's maybe a long answer to your question about lunch um but uh you know I I think you're asking the right question that in all things we should be seeking the Lord uh but then also be resting in the fact that there are some things that you know are blessings.
00:29:56.240 -->
00:30:03.440Uh lunch can be one of those depending on I guess the type of food you're eating I don't know would you add anything to that?
00:30:03.680 -->
00:30:04.079Thank you.
00:30:04.319 -->
00:30:45.599Um I guess I would ask after you order your ham and cheese sandwich are you then claiming God told you to get the ham and cheese sandwich and it's also God's will for other people at your table to get the ham and cheese sandwich too because like that's more what Ezekiel 13 is talking about people have their agenda and they're they're not only just not acknowledging God like you're talking about seeking his will they're also taking a step further and saying I need to eat this because God told me and God told you too and they're speaking for God in ways that are very presumptuous which I didn't hear as part of your description of your lunch.
00:30:45.839 -->
00:30:52.799So I don't think you're in violation of the principles there of Ezekiel 13 although it's good to think about what does God want me to eat.
00:30:53.039 -->
00:30:58.720So if you're going out to lunch at a particular restaurant and then you're dictating what everybody else should eat, that's a problem.
00:30:58.960 -->
00:31:10.480With the thus saith the Lord thus says the Lord you should eat that's Ezekiel 13 Thanksgiving is coming up and Little Footprints learning center has a pretty easy way to make dessert or even dinner a little bit easier this year.
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00:31:27.119 -->
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00:31:34.559 -->
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00:31:44.480 -->
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00:31:47.599 -->
00:31:53.839So grab a pie or a few and let little footprints take one thing off your Thanksgiving to-do list this fall.
00:31:54.160 -->
00:31:59.440That sounds like identity theft oh now we're into the topic of the story.
00:32:00.960 -->
00:33:04.24060 second flyover Bob what was Ezekiel 13 about well we we delve a little bit into it yes so we have these false prophets uh we're into the judgment section of Ezekiel Ezekiel 12 to 33 is all consequences for things that they did in the first um you know 12 chapters of the book uh we talked a little bit about this this theme of spiritual identity uh theft and that's when we do things and we we slap God's name to it and we're attributing things to him uh that he doesn't want attributed to him uh so we have that opening illustration about the easy pass people claiming to be easy pass but then um it's really a scam uh and we can all fall victims to that in in how we live our lives uh we talked about a couple agendas happiness performance uh and we come to the Lord and say here's my plan why don't you go ahead and bless it so we ask the question what's your agenda what does God do when his name is signed onto our agenda and we looked at three scenes the crime scene the consequences and how God ultimately restores our heart um and we can we can dive into each of those and the different things that were there.
00:33:04.319 -->
00:34:05.920So it was a the Ezekiel 13 was a bit of a courtroom scene that we we pulled out um there was some evidence against uh these false prophets there was some consequences for their actions and then of course there was a lot of parallels with uh Matthew 7 and the Sermon on the Mount um kind of striking parallels there um and uh we finished by by saying that we should be asking ourselves three questions you know what am I building in my life um whose agenda is it and then who is it that gets the glory for that and those can be helpful uh rubrics for thinking about how to how to live within God's will great well thank you very much it's an interesting passage I think um maybe not something we think that is our problem and so what would you say to the person who says you know I read Ezekiel 13 boy I'm not a prophet I don't have a pulpit I don't really engage in preaching and I'm not you know claiming to speak for God here so this passage has nothing to do with me.
00:34:06.160 -->
00:34:20.239How might this passage have a more broad application to the average Christian out there who might need to watch out for their own tendencies towards identity theft well I might I might ask do you do you listen to preachers?
00:34:20.480 -->
00:35:04.639So I mean if if there's you know there is a call to discern uh what you're listening to and is it faithful to God's word and uh you might not be a preacher with a platform uh each week like they Dave and I um but you probably are influencing somebody in your life you know if you're a parent you're influencing your kids uh you might be influencing your coworkers uh you know passing on things that you know you think God wants to share with them and so uh you know the application might not be as on the bullseye uh for you know people like us uh for you but but there is a certain level of we have to always watch out how we're influencing people and how we're being influenced uh by those that we are listening to.
00:35:04.800 -->
00:35:47.679Um sometimes you might go and you might be listening to a a show or a podcast or a friend or people that you know certain authors that are influencing you and you have to be very careful that they're they're doing uh things in alignment with what God has really revealed in his word not claiming to speak for God when in fact they were just kind of pushing their own interpretation or agenda you know it's interesting like if I was God I don't know if I would trust these people with my word you know it's interesting the way he set it up like remember in Exodus the people are scared of the mountain and they don't want to go talk to God and they send Moses to go talk to him because they don't want to hear directly from God.
00:35:47.760 -->
00:35:58.719Like he's scary and then God commissions Moses to represent him right but that solution of I'm gonna send a human being to represent me is like highly problematic.
00:35:59.199 -->
00:36:25.360Maybe Moses got it right but it it doesn't always work out so well right so even Moses said there's gonna be people who speak for God and sometimes they're not gonna be telling you what's true and he said if they start telling you to worship other gods that's a dead giveaway that they're not right and also if they um if they say stuff that doesn't come true that's another dead giveaway that they're not they're not false.
00:36:25.599 -->
00:36:28.480So you know I mean it go ahead.
00:36:28.639 -->
00:36:58.320Yeah I was gonna say your point is though is Moses goes up to the mountain by himself nobody else is going with him and he makes a bunch of claims when he comes down right and it's kind of been that way ever since like God has chosen to have a human messenger to talk to like a mediator like in between which is fine but we human beings have this other problem which is like deception and that's another big theme in the Bible like there's people lie and deceive all the time right so if I was God for their own gain for their own gain.
00:36:58.480 -->
00:37:09.199Like I don't know if I would trust these people to be representing me the way I you know the way I would prefer but yet this is this is the situation he he sets up.
00:37:09.360 -->
00:37:39.280So well what on a side note you you're making me think about uh Mormons right so Mormonism you so you have a Moses in the Bible and then you have a Joseph Smith who claims to be a modern day prophet who who you know goes off and there's a book that he finds in a hat that only he can read and only he can interpret with Egyptian hieroglyphics right and nobody can can question him right so then that that becomes a problem then you must just have to assume that he's the he's the authority unquestioned authority.
00:37:39.599 -->
00:37:49.519Yeah and for some reason people buy this stuff you know and it just kind of continues to our day I mean a couple weeks ago we were talking about the NAR and the problem there.
00:37:49.679 -->
00:38:16.000Yeah so it's a good thing to have some self-reflection like especially anybody who might claim to represent God like what would that mean if you were to need to question that what like he I think he calls them prophets after their own hearts at the beginning of chapter thirteen right how would their own hearts their own spirit how would I know if I'm a prophet after my own heart um what would I be looking for there?
00:38:16.639 -->
00:38:26.639Well I guess if another prophet comes up and says God is God is claiming this about you might should make you pause and really examine examine your heart to see if he's right.
00:38:27.760 -->
00:38:49.840Why does he call them uh there's an animal he calls them a certain certain animal why does he call them that what's what's the significance of is there a parallel there is there like an image or an illustration I don't know if there's a parallel with another animal but I think the the reason he's calling them jackals is is just to describe very vividly the fact that they're jackals are scavengers.
00:38:49.920 -->
00:39:00.960So they come into a system they eat eat all the leftovers they basically strip the bones dry and they don't contribute anything to the restoration of what's happening within their ecosystem.
00:39:01.199 -->
00:39:16.880And what I think he's saying to these false prophets is you're coming in and you're stripping out all the hope from these people for your own gain and you're really not contributing to their spiritual welfare and ultimately they're gonna be in a pretty bad way in the future and you're not preparing them for that.
00:39:17.039 -->
00:39:31.280So there's gonna there is there is going to be a siege there's not going to be peace um there's gonna be judgment and devastation and these people are not prepared for the suffering that's going to come you're just telling them it's gonna be easy as long as you listen to me.
00:39:31.679 -->
00:40:54.559And so by doing that you're you're a jackal do you guys ever see like buzz kill buzzards on roadkill I said buzzkill buzzard like you ever see a bird come down it is kind of a buzzkill when you see picking a deer or whatever or yeah some dead animal on the road is there a sense in which it's kind of like that like here's the scavenger bird thing right and they're always kind of circling and lurking looking for some other disaster and then they're ready to take advantage of this other animal's demise right so they sort of come around at the time of disaster and figure out what can I get out of this right how can I you know fend for myself in that way that the people of Jerusalem are about to experience a disaster and here come these jackals like oh okay how can I look out for me right now and and get something for myself out of this here's here's a dead carcass I'm gonna see if I can pick it for all it's worth well this is maybe your your double application question here so I obviously he's saying don't be like that don't be somebody who comes in and basically manipulates the situation because you can see how to exploit the people that are like because these people are already in exile there's already a lot of pain you know they they want to have hope when they have no hope and you're coming in and exploiting that so don't be like that.
00:40:54.719 -->
00:41:02.880But also you have to uh have the discernment to know when you're being manipulated and when somebody's doing something for their own advantage.
00:41:03.679 -->
00:41:06.239So I think there can be a double edged sword there.
00:41:06.559 -->
00:41:47.840Yeah so let's talk about the other image which is like this drywall mm-hmm uh paint spackle uh what is he trying to say by comparing the the behaviors in Ezekiel 13 to this like paint what is it what does it mean well I I had a couple realtors come up and they weren't happy with me yesterday I got I got accused of hurting their uh hurting their uh their business but I said well then just don't don't like to ask you about that so first of all would you really listen to a realtor over the inspector?
00:41:48.079 -->
00:43:23.679That that's well I'd say maybe he would like I kind of think you should blame yourself not the realtor for that well let's just assume that the they talked to the realtor and then the realtor conveyed the uh the information to you I guess it seemed like you were you had a shady realtor there that was trying to well that's the point though you got you got the shady prophets and the shady realtor um but yes exactly though if if you if you are if you are foolish enough to listen to a realtor who would say that then then it is your own fault probably yeah you shouldn't be blaming the realtor blame yourself anyway what are we what is he talking about what's he talking about right so the the point is he's saying here is that this this wall um is uh symbolic of you know Israel's protection uh the spiritual protection that they're trying to claim so they're claiming that there's gonna be you know you're gonna be back in the land really quickly um God's with you uh you know I have all the answers basically they're they're a bit of a um uh a charlatan in terms of how they're presenting this um but what he's saying is that they're they're whitewashing over what's actually going to happen in the future to be to whitewash something is basically to uh to say oh there's nothing here to see I'm just gonna cover it over um maybe the better image was the idea that you let's just say you have a have a wall a very flimsy wall and yet you cover it over with like fake brick and it makes it look like it's stronger than it actually is but then when the deluge of rain comes you're gonna find out that it's not um it's not strong.
00:43:23.840 -->
00:43:25.119It falls right away.
00:43:25.280 -->
00:43:59.199You know when the hurricane comes and blows over your uh your wall you're gonna suffer the consequences behind the wall even though you thought you were going to be protected um so that's the kind of the meaning of that Hebrew word for wall and the whitewashing um uh thing and then God mocks them he mocks these uh these false prophets saying oh where where's the coating you promised all this protection and yet uh the wall's gone right what you should have been doing though was having somebody stand in the breach and fortifying the actual wall because there is problem coming uh there are problems coming.
00:43:59.360 -->
00:44:03.519You're Claiming there's going to be peace, but there's gonna not there's not gonna be peace, right?
00:44:03.599 -->
00:44:09.119There is gonna be a siege, there is gonna be um attacks, and you're not preparing the people well for those things.
00:44:09.280 -->
00:44:11.519You're you're lying to them about what's to come in the future.
00:44:11.679 -->
00:44:13.440And you're saying that I said that.
00:44:14.000 -->
00:44:17.119That's why that's why God's not happy with them.
00:44:17.599 -->
00:44:19.599That's why his wrath is coming against them.
00:44:21.679 -->
00:44:34.639What I was thinking about with this wall thing is if it's uh a spiritual leader passage and I see someone who has some crack in their wall, that's like there's like real brokenness there.
00:44:35.440 -->
00:44:41.599And it's my duty as a messenger of God to repair it properly, right?
00:44:42.159 -->
00:44:47.039If I think that little paint is gonna hold it together, then I'm not really helping them.
00:44:47.119 -->
00:44:51.119I'm not really addressing the problem, I'm not really addressing the issue under the issue under the issue.
00:44:51.519 -->
00:45:00.559And I think we have a responsibility as spiritual leaders not to whitewash problems, but to actually tell the truth and deal with it like with what it is.
00:45:00.800 -->
00:45:08.559And they were sort of glossing over things they should have addressed properly, right?
00:45:08.719 -->
00:45:12.000So there's a message there, I think, for spiritual leaders.
00:45:12.719 -->
00:45:15.280If there's a crack, you can't just paint over the crack.
00:45:15.519 -->
00:45:19.199You gotta do the work to repair the crack properly.
00:45:19.679 -->
00:45:20.000Right?
00:45:21.679 -->
00:45:22.559It's good.
00:45:23.840 -->
00:45:25.679Well, we listen to lies all the time.
00:45:25.840 -->
00:45:30.159We might not feel like Ezekiel 13 immediately applies to us, but I think it does.
00:45:30.400 -->
00:45:35.840You know, we live in echo chambers, people are always sending us messages, we need to be discerning.
00:45:36.639 -->
00:45:40.079So uh three three concluding applications there, right?
00:45:40.159 -->
00:45:41.199So, what are you building?
00:45:41.679 -->
00:45:42.159All right.
00:45:42.400 -->
00:45:46.400So help me understand how I can ask that question to myself.
00:45:46.559 -->
00:45:52.239What am what am I building and what would be the way to build properly according to Ezekiel 13?
00:45:53.360 -->
00:45:54.880What should I be building?
00:45:55.199 -->
00:46:06.000Yeah, I think the the question behind well the point behind the question of what am I building is to really is really to take an assessment of of uh the things I'm investing in in my life.
00:46:06.400 -->
00:46:09.199And and we're all doing it to some extent, so I mentioned it.
00:46:09.440 -->
00:46:11.920Your career, that's something you're you're probably building.
00:46:12.079 -->
00:46:15.039Maybe it's a business, or maybe you're investing in a ministry.
00:46:15.440 -->
00:46:31.840Um if you're younger, maybe you're building a resume from college, or even even how you're thinking about the type of things that you invest in for your um you know, investment portfolio, uh, just get get a sense of what are the things that God has entrusted to you right now with your natural gifts.
00:46:32.320 -->
00:46:34.800Second question was then whose agenda is it?
00:46:35.039 -->
00:46:52.320And am I doing those things in a way that is um is building a firm foundation uh on God, what God is calling me to do, or or am I ignoring some things that got some hard things God may be calling me to do for the sake of my own benefit?
00:46:52.559 -->
00:46:54.880And that's kind of where these these two agendas can parse out.
00:46:55.039 -->
00:47:00.719And then the way you figure it out is that third question, well, who's gonna who who is ultimately getting the glory for this?
00:47:01.119 -->
00:47:02.880Who is ultimately getting the glory for this?
00:47:02.960 -->
00:47:05.119And that's not an exact science, I think.
00:47:05.360 -->
00:47:13.199Um, but it is a question that should be asked over and over again in these these major decisions, and perhaps even with your lunch.
00:47:13.360 -->
00:47:16.320Who's getting the glory for this food that's getting getting eaten?
00:47:16.559 -->
00:47:28.559Um But in these decisions that I'm making, is it ultimately about what people are gonna think about, how people are gonna think about me, or is it about uh doing the right thing so that God will get the most glory for it?
00:47:28.719 -->
00:47:48.079Similar to your question about the the whitewashed wall, if you if you paint it over and you don't address the actual issue, well that that that crack is still there and it's gonna keep coming up and it's not really uh serving uh the person you're caring for very well if you're just covering it over with paint or or duct tape or whatever it is that you're using.
00:47:48.320 -->
00:47:50.239Um does that give God glory?
00:47:50.800 -->
00:47:51.760I don't know.
00:47:52.960 -->
00:47:54.960Good applicational points.
00:47:55.119 -->
00:47:57.599Anything else on this passage before we move on to the next part?
00:47:57.920 -->
00:48:06.800Well, I will just say that I thought it was fascinating the parallels between that and the Sermon on the Mount, and uh I mean, even down to some of the language and examples that Jesus gives.
00:48:07.119 -->
00:48:16.320So um I think there is a bit of a clarion call to ultimately found yourself, found your life on the rock of Jesus Christ and and his gospel.
00:48:16.480 -->
00:48:19.840So that I found to be pretty pretty interesting.
00:48:20.400 -->
00:48:22.639Seems like Jesus was reading Ezekiel.
00:48:22.880 -->
00:48:23.519Probably.
00:48:23.760 -->
00:48:24.079All right.
00:48:24.159 -->
00:48:24.960Well, thank you, Bob.
00:48:25.199 -->
00:48:26.159What's coming up this week?
00:48:26.239 -->
00:48:26.960Where are we going?
00:48:27.199 -->
00:48:30.079We're gonna leapfrog to Ezekiel 16.
00:48:30.239 -->
00:48:40.880It's uh a passage that retells the story of Israel from beginning to end, and the language he uses is the language of a bridegroom and a bride.
00:48:41.199 -->
00:48:56.719And it is uh in one way a very beautiful depiction of God's people, and in another way, Ezekiel takes the opportunity to use language that's specifically um graphic is in is probably the right word.
00:48:56.880 -->
00:49:03.760So this is this is probably one of the most graphic chapters in the whole Bible, and the language is uh shocking.
00:49:03.920 -->
00:49:08.639And if you read Ezekiel 16 in preparation for the message, you'll kind of know what I'm talking about.
00:49:08.880 -->
00:49:21.039But we're gonna be talking about the topic of God's um attitude towards those people who think that they've sinned so much and so far that they're outside of the reach of God's grace.
00:49:21.280 -->
00:49:22.480So have you ever been there?
00:49:22.639 -->
00:49:26.320Uh, if so, come Sunday and you'll hear the answer to that question.
00:49:26.639 -->
00:49:35.360Calling all gardeners and gardener wannabes, on Saturday, October 31st, Millington Baptist Church is hosting a campus workday from 8 a.m.
00:49:35.599 -->
00:49:37.920to noon, sponsored by our men's ministry.
00:49:38.000 -->
00:49:44.719We'll be cleaning up garden beds, tackling a few minor facility projects, and helping to get the church property looking its best.
00:49:44.880 -->
00:49:49.119And while the men's ministry is organizing the morning, this workday is open to everyone.
00:49:49.199 -->
00:49:54.159So whether you know your way around a garden or just willing to lend a hand, we'd love to have you join us.
00:49:54.320 -->
00:49:58.000You can come for the whole morning or just part of it, whatever your schedule allows.
00:49:58.079 -->
00:50:01.039And if you need more information, contact the NBC office.
00:50:01.280 -->
00:50:10.320So on Saturday, October 31st, be ready to bring a pair of gloves, come ready to help, and let's spend the morning taking good care of the place we get to call home.
00:50:10.719 -->
00:50:14.559As we continue our series, that sounds fascinating.
00:50:14.639 -->
00:50:17.119If you want to hear a graphic sermon, come uh come this week.
00:50:17.280 -->
00:50:17.840Yes, sir.
00:50:18.000 -->
00:50:18.320All right.
00:50:18.480 -->
00:50:19.920Will there be more dung bread?
00:50:20.239 -->
00:50:21.360Ma, we're done with that.
00:50:21.679 -->
00:50:26.239Um to new images that you'll have a hard time forgetting.
00:50:26.400 -->
00:50:32.559All right, so the final part of our show is what we call Whoa, look at that.
00:50:32.639 -->
00:50:33.360Is that AI?
00:50:33.599 -->
00:50:33.840It is.
00:50:34.079 -->
00:50:34.719I'm not gonna lie.
00:50:35.199 -->
00:50:36.480Minute warning.
00:50:37.119 -->
00:50:42.000We got two minutes to answer your hard questions.
00:50:42.320 -->
00:50:45.199And I got a question that I'd like to tackle today.
00:50:45.360 -->
00:50:49.760And the question is who were the Nephilim?
00:50:50.639 -->
00:50:52.400Who were the Nephilim?
00:50:52.719 -->
00:50:54.800And that is what I'm gonna try to tackle.
00:50:55.039 -->
00:51:00.239As soon as I get a timer going up on the screen, I'm gonna try to like make this work.
00:51:00.880 -->
00:51:04.480And you guys let me know if you feel satisfied after two minutes.
00:51:04.639 -->
00:51:05.760Tim, what do you think?
00:51:05.840 -->
00:51:06.239Should I go?
00:51:06.320 -->
00:51:07.280Or it's going.
00:51:07.440 -->
00:51:07.760Okay.
00:51:08.559 -->
00:51:25.760So Genesis chapter 6, verses 1 through 4 describes a group of people called the sons of God who are taking human women, and that is followed by a reference to these Nephilim, who are described as the men of renown or the mighty men of old.
00:51:26.000 -->
00:51:45.679There's a scholar named Michael Heiser, and I have a picture of him that Tim can show, who argues that this passage describes a supernatural rebellion of the sons of God, uh, that these were rebellious heavenly beings, and the Nephilim were giants associated with their unions with these human women.
00:51:45.920 -->
00:51:59.840So the question on the table for this is like does Genesis describe supernatural uh beings and their offspring, or is this just human beings involved in a rebellion and violence and corruption of God's law?
00:52:00.000 -->
00:52:06.159Uh the Heiser view, which is the supernatural rebellion view, says that the sons of God were rebellious heavenly beings.
00:52:06.320 -->
00:52:13.679The Hebrew expression, sons of God, or Bene Ha Elohim, refers to heavenly beings elsewhere in the Old Testament, like in the book of Job.
00:52:13.840 -->
00:52:23.760And so he understands Genesis 6 as describing heavenly beings crossing the boundary between divine and human realms and getting together with human women.
00:52:23.840 -->
00:52:27.440And their offspring were the Nephilim, which were giants.
00:52:27.760 -->
00:52:40.960Michael Heiser understands the Nephilim as associated with this rebellion, and he understands that this is uh part of Satan's thwarting of God's purposes in the world.
00:52:41.199 -->
00:52:46.480There are two references in the New Testament that actually refer to this and lend support to this view.
00:52:46.559 -->
00:52:53.280One is in the book of Jude and one is in the book of Second Peter that talks about the sins of certain angels that's associated with divine judgment.
00:52:53.440 -->
00:52:58.000Heiser says those passages are talking about what happened in Genesis chapter six.
00:52:58.320 -->
00:53:07.840One of the books I bought just to like look into this is a pseudopigry book called First Enoch, which actually retells the whole Genesis chapter six story.
00:53:07.920 -->
00:53:19.199It was a book that was written during the intertestamental period, and it agrees that these were supernatural beings who took on human women and then had offspring known as the Nephilim.
00:53:19.679 -->
00:53:29.599Now, if you're half human and half supernatural angel, what the Bible uses to describe that is unclean.
00:53:29.920 -->
00:53:35.760So, like if a cloth was made out of two different kinds of fibers, it was an unclean cloth.
00:53:36.000 -->
00:53:42.000So to be two different uh species, half human, half angel, is to be an unclean spirit.
00:53:42.159 -->
00:53:48.159So Heiser says, because they're unclean spirits, they don't have anywhere to go after they die.
00:53:48.320 -->
00:53:49.920So they just kind of wander.
00:53:50.000 -->
00:53:56.079And Hiser says, these are the unclean spirits that were wandering the earth when Jesus came on the scene.
00:53:56.159 -->
00:54:08.639And when he begins to cleanse the land as Jesus or the greater Joshua, Joshua was tasked to conquer the land specifically because the giants were in the land, and Joshua was to drive the giants out.
00:54:08.800 -->
00:54:22.000So Jesus is coming as the true and greater Joshua, and he now has the giants again, only they're disembodied spirits who have now taken possession of human beings in the form of unclean spirits, and he's he's he's driving them out of the land.
00:54:22.079 -->
00:54:25.679Um he's putting them in exile.
00:54:25.840 -->
00:54:29.840So Jesus is like dealing with the Nephilim when he's on the earth.
00:54:29.920 -->
00:54:31.599That's the Michael Heiser view.
00:54:31.760 -->
00:54:32.800I like the view.
00:54:32.880 -->
00:54:34.239Uh, it's wild, right?
00:54:34.320 -->
00:54:35.280Like, who thinks of this?
00:54:35.440 -->
00:54:36.800Is this really possible?
00:54:37.039 -->
00:54:39.039But there's a lot of support for that view.
00:54:39.199 -->
00:54:51.679And the second view is these were human beings, and so there's an interpretation of Genesis 6 that says there's a line of Cain and a line of Seth, and they were two lines that were against each other.
00:54:51.760 -->
00:55:05.039So the sons of God and daughters of men are when the lines crossed, and that's the the Cain line and the Seth line got together, and they had children, and this began to pollute the line that was the clean Sethite line.
00:55:05.119 -->
00:55:11.039And so for that reason, uh God sent the flood in order to kind of restart again with Noah.
00:55:11.440 -->
00:55:11.920Uh St.
00:55:12.079 -->
00:55:17.280Augustine takes that view, uh, Bruce Walkie takes that view, as well as some other modern scholars.
00:55:17.360 -->
00:55:22.559So those are two very different views about who were the Nephilim, what was going on.
00:55:23.119 -->
00:55:33.039Um I don't totally know the answer, but there's a lot of people who think about this deeply and they agree with the supernatural view, so I'm I'm I'm intrigued by it.
00:55:33.280 -->
00:55:42.880Whatever interpretation we adopt, Genesis 6 portrays a world in which there's a rebellion um away from God that uh culminates in a flood.
00:55:43.199 -->
00:55:55.760And I think we need to just be invited to understand the seriousness of evil and that God's judgment is real and not necessarily claim that we figured all this out and every debate is settled.
00:55:55.840 -->
00:55:57.760So I think the conversation will continue.
00:55:58.000 -->
00:55:59.039That's my answer.
00:55:59.280 -->
00:56:02.400Well, how much long longer than two minutes was that?
00:56:02.800 -->
00:56:06.159I think you were like four and a half, but I'm getting used to this.
00:56:06.320 -->
00:56:11.440You know, I just been off for a while.
00:56:11.599 -->
00:56:12.719Who knows if it's telling the truth?
00:56:12.880 -->
00:56:13.280Wow, okay.
00:56:13.440 -->
00:56:14.239But a quick follow-up question.
00:56:16.880 -->
00:56:18.719Was Goliath one of the Nephilim?
00:56:19.440 -->
00:56:33.199So people speculate that even though there was a flood that you know pulverized everyone and wiped the earth out, that the Nephilim were on earth again, even after the flood, right?
00:56:33.280 -->
00:56:34.719So, how did that happen again?
00:56:34.880 -->
00:56:38.480Did the sons of God rebel again and take the daughters of men again?
00:56:38.559 -->
00:56:47.840And then there was giants again after like so that's the struggle with the view that says Goliath was one of the Nephilim, didn't and so it's not really explicitly ever said that that's happened.
00:56:48.239 -->
00:56:50.559Kaiser says that's what happened, it happened again.
00:56:50.719 -->
00:56:54.559They rebelled again, and the Nephilim came came back, so to speak.
00:56:54.719 -->
00:57:03.280And wow, some of the giants, the Anakim that are showing up later after the flood are part of a subsequent rebellion that happened there.
00:57:03.599 -->
00:57:10.960So I think you do have to explain where the giants came from in 1 Samuel, so you know Yeah, so that's one theory there.
00:57:11.199 -->
00:57:12.480Yeah, interesting.
00:57:12.719 -->
00:57:14.639I think in the House of David that's the assumed view.
00:57:14.880 -->
00:57:15.679That's the assumed view.
00:57:15.840 -->
00:57:17.920They have like a little precursor to one of the episodes.
00:57:18.079 -->
00:57:19.679Yeah, but you notice they don't explain.
00:57:19.760 -->
00:57:22.800Like they say, Genesis 6.
00:57:23.039 -->
00:57:23.280Yeah.
00:57:23.679 -->
00:57:30.480They're like, okay, Genesis 6 happened, and that's how you got to the Giants, but they don't also mention, oh, by the way, we wiped out all the Giants in Genesis 6, too.
00:57:30.559 -->
00:57:32.000So how'd they come back in David's day?
00:57:32.079 -->
00:57:33.840They don't explain the link.
00:57:34.239 -->
00:57:35.440So yeah.
00:57:35.760 -->
00:57:36.639That's very interesting.
00:57:36.800 -->
00:57:37.119All right.
00:57:37.280 -->
00:57:39.360Well, we'll try to get two minutes better next time.
00:57:39.519 -->
00:57:42.320Thank you for listening, and thank you for watching our show today.
00:57:42.639 -->
00:57:44.880We are looking forward to seeing you next time.
00:57:44.960 -->
00:57:49.920We hope to see you Sunday as we continue our series through the book of Ezekiel and uh graphic.
00:57:50.000 -->
00:57:50.880It's gonna be graphic.
00:57:52.639 -->
00:57:54.800Definitely will have a great rest of your day, guys.
