S4 E7: Adversity Does Not Have the Final Word: Mavis Bubb on Resilience, Purpose, and Authentic Leadership

Intro
Welcome to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers—where leadership is grounded in behavior, guided by dignity, and designed for change. I'm your host, Dr. Esther Bubb. Let's dive into today's episode.
Interview
WEBVTT
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mavis, thank you so much for joining the show. I'm so happy to have you here in your professional role, but also, in our relationship as big sister, right? You're my big sister. So, so thank you so much for joining, and I, I look forward to chatting with you today and, learning from you as well.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Well, thank you so much for having me, Esther. It's truly a pleasure to be here in this conversation with you, and I'm just excited to take it away.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful, wonderful. All right, well, let's talk a little bit, maybe it's about your leadership journey. I know some of it, you know, the listeners will hear about it, but I'm sure I'm going to learn some things, right, that may be new to me. So talk to us, maybe it's about your leadership journey and really the experiences that shaped you into the leader, the coach, you know, the speaker that you are today.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes, actually, my leadership journey began long before I ever held a leadership title.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I moved into banking as my first career. Well, second, because I had a short stint in teaching. Right. And I progressed through the ranks really quickly. 12 years, I was a senior supervisor, which at that time was a feat. Actually, it was 10 years.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And then two years later, I left banking for personal challenges I was having.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And within a space of two years, I returned to the same organization, but at a lower level, not at the same level. And I returned as a contract staff, not a permanent staff.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And so that was humbling.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But I had to understand that where I wanted to go, I had to start there to get and to pass where I wanted to. I came back with a purpose that I'm going to rise through the ranks and get all the way up to leadership. And while I was doing that, I was raising two young sons on my own without any help. I was raising two young sons.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Higher education, I was…
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Of course, had my support system around me and what that taught me really about leadership is resilience.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: You've got to be resilient, and you have to be focused on the goal at hand. It's not necessarily going to be easy, but really focus, even when life becomes difficult.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And so today as an executive coach, a leader, speaker, trainer, I help others discover what I went through. I'm not speaking from something I read in a book, but I'm speaking from my own personal experience, what I went through, how I navigated and share that experience with them. So day two.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: can navigate their own difficulties. So that is it for me. Leadership is really about resilience, growth, and influence in spite of.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, resilience, growth.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: In spite of, right, so, so hanging in there, having the faith.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Having the stamina, having the determination.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Having the grit.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Having the grit, having the grit, yes, yes.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And then I think from everything you said, it sounds to me when you spoke about humility, you said it was very humbling.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: and I think as leaders, we have to be humble, right? So, I think of what you said makes me think of leadership as something that's practiced, not necessarily possessed, because all of those experiences gave you practice and, right, along the way and made you into who you are today.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And it's experiential, as you rightfully said, because leadership is not just a title. Leadership is action.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It's not what you say, but what you do. And having gone through the experience and lived it.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: To me, that is the greatest experience you can share. You can say what's, you can theoretically tell someone what to do, but when you have gone through it for yourself and you are able to share from a place of experience, for me, that's the greatest leadership influence.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: That's it
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, wonderful. You talked about resilience, you talked about grit, you talked about, you know, there were, there was a point in your life where you faced some, some trials and tribulations and struggles and troubles, right? So let's talk a bit about overcoming adversity because everything you just said in your previous response lends itself nicely to this idea.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Of, you know, overcoming adversity and hanging in there. So what life challenges maybe have shaped your character and leadership philosophy?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: All right.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Hmm, you hit it on the head.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: When I reflect on all of the challenges I went through in my life, I have to say the most difficult one was when my marriage ended in divorce.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It was not just ending in divorce. It's what what I went through prior to.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Making that final decision, there was emotional, mental, physical abuse, and.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I had to become very strong internally. That's where the resilience came from. Yeah. And make that decision to leave that difficult, abusive relationship once and for all. And that's after
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Relieving and returning on multiple occasions. And on the last occasion, the fourth occasion, I said, in my mind, I've had enough. Enough is enough. And this is it. Yes.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And doing all of that, I now basically was starting over, rebuilding my life, rebuilding my career, taking care of two young children, and overcoming that fear of starting over. What if? Yeah. And what if?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And,
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: What I realized coming out of that is that I was living in survival mode and living up to others' expectation.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Right? Putting on his face, as it were, to live up to others' expectations, because, I mean, nobody wants a marriage to end in divorce, so I'm trying, and I'm trying, and I'm trying.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But at the end of the day, the experience taught me courage.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It taught me dependence on God, and it taught me that adversity does not have the final word.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Right, right.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It does not have the final word. These things happen to me for a reason, for a purpose. And the experiences that I went through helped to shape me into the leader and woman that I am today. And it does not define me. It does not define my ending. It is all part of the experience of becoming.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful. And I love that you talked about courage.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And I love that you talked about overcoming… like, adversity doesn't define us, right? We really define who we are, so it's hanging in there. And then I also did, not yet published, you know, another one of these episodes with someone, and she also talked about
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Dr. Esther Bubb: You know, her marriage also ended in divorce, and, like, she's going through so much, and her question, like you said.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: It's like, why, right? What is this building before? What is this preparing me for? And we talked about, it's not easy to see in the moment, right? If we all could see and predict the future, right? But we just can't. And that's not, that's the way of the world. So I think for me, I love that you shared that because it's those adversities, right? So whether it's a personal adversity or work related, right? Professional, we, we experience them regardless.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: I always say, Mavis, and I believe you would say the same, is my greatest growth
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Dr. Esther Bubb: happen during those seasons.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Of course.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: It happened during those seasons, and those are the ones I would never choose to repeat, but I'm grateful at the end of the day for the experience. So it was very trying because it taught me, I learned from it, and then now I'm able to help someone else. I'm able to bless someone else, you know? I don't know what your thoughts are, but that's, you know?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Definitely because my experiences and what I went through and and often when I speak with people who are going through those similar experiences because I shared.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Now, if I had kept it to myself, I was the only one who would know, but because I shared what my experiences are and the growth that I learned from it.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: When they are going through their own experience, they reflect on what I told them, and they take courage. Say, I'm going through this, but I remember what you said. I remember what you said. And that gives me a sense of fulfillment, that that experience I went through was not just, perhaps, not just for me, but.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: For others, I was perhaps a sacrificial lamb, but it's coming to benefit others.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I look back now on that journey and I see where I have grown. I cannot tell you I had it in me.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It's, it's, it's, it was developed during the process. Thank, thanks to God. I was stretched and I, I remained firm. Hmm.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. And then it also makes me think of so we talk a lot about a trauma informed approach to care, right? Because, you know, special education, you know.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Right.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Those kinds of things. So making sure we're always thinking of someone could be going through something. We don't know everybody's personal life. And I always extend that to maybe as a leader or as a supervisor, let's use the word supervisor to my staff.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: to have that trauma informed approach to the way that I lead because everybody might be going through something we just may not know.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So being compassionate, I'm very big on because I just don't know what people are going through, right? They may be engaging in certain behaviors at work, right? Which, which do not align with our expectations. It could just be like, yeah, this is what they're choosing to do, but it could also be, be maybe some backstory that I just don't know, you know?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yeah, and I'm happy you said that because I experienced that with staff in my position from time to time at work. As a matter of fact, up to this week, I experienced that.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: One of the language… well, I don't know if this is understood universally, but what I said is…
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: person is carrying a lot of baggage. I'm sensing that they are carrying a lot of baggage. So it's not necessarily that they are aiming it at me. I mean, I am the one getting the lash of that, but I sense and I picked up that staff member is carrying a lot of baggage. Yes, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So on that note, let's talk a bit about turning pain into purpose. You talked about, right, your experiences really helped you lean into your purpose and how do we take that pain and turn it into purpose and turn it into a story and turn it into meaningful benefit for not only ourselves, but for our kids, your kids, you know, those with those we come into contact with. So how did your adversity maybe become a catalyst for your coaching work and your desire to help others grow?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Excellent question, Esther.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I am one about sharing.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I don't like to be selfish, and what I realize from speaking with people casually, many people are struggling.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: with making transitions from one phase of their life to the next. They're facing fears, they're facing limiting beliefs, they're facing major decisions, and there is a bit of hesitation. Can I? Can I? Am I capable of?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And because of my experience, I feel compelled to offer not just a simple reassuring answer. I want to go a bit further.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: and share with them practical tips that they can implement in their lives to move them from where they are stuck to where they want to be. Because our… let's face it, our story, or my story of pain.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yeah. It's a story that can become someone else's survival guide. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons that propelled me to be part of that anthology about 3 years ago, where,
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: One of my coaches, Dr. Maureen, she was doing this anthology on transforming pain into purpose, and I felt compelled to share just a snippet of my story in that anthology.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And whenever anyone picks up that book and reads it, the experience, the feedback, I mean, even in a keynote recently in one of our staff functions, I shared a bit of it and.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: After the session, one staff member came to me and indicated they were in tears because they did not realize I went through that. I mean, I guess they're probably looking at me well put together, and sometimes we can give false impression of where we are, not telling people the journey that caused us to be where we are today. So turning pain into purpose is powerful.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And every opportunity I get, I share because I don't, I want people to realize that in order to get there, sometimes this is what you have to go through. And if they are going through right now, and if I made it, hold on, you can make it to hold on in your season of faith because.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: The reward is, as I like to say, on the backside. Yes. The, the, the reward is on the backside. So hold on. Hold on.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Hold on. Change is coming. Hold on. Just hold on.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Oh.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Oh my goodness. Yes. But, but that is, and so I'm a big, very firm believer in stories, right? Just as you said it, we never know. So like even doing the podcast, so like the reels and shorts that I've been doing, even if there's one person viewing it, maybe it's helping this one person, like you said, right? And that's kind of what I think of maybe just like you're saying, like not necessarily the numbers, but like if.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: whatever I'm saying or whatever I'm sharing is making a difference. Maybe that person was about to do something that they would regret, and right? It just propelled them out of that moment. But I also really like that you said
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Helping people see what they necessarily are not seeing in themselves yet.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So I got, I'll share a story.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But I got a message yesterday from like one of my former employees. I haven't worked there in like 10 years and it was a long message, but she was really saying she was so appreciative. The one sentence I'll just share that really resonated with me. She was like, thank you for believing in me when I didn't even believe in myself.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So that's what I really strive to do, is to help, because for me, I've shared the story a lot of times, but the field that I'm in now, Mavis, is because someone I worked with saw how I was working with the child, and I was like, I think you should look into ABA now, Mavis. I was just doing my job, not even thinking, I was like, you know, doing something grand.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And if that person, right, who was younger than me, who were just colleagues, and I had never heard of ABA Applied Behavior Analysis, if he hadn't said that to me
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Dr. Esther Bubb: I wouldn't be where I am, but I also think of you talking about the adversity, I think it really helps give you that platform and… to share, and to this one person, right? Even if it's just that one person in that room that came up to you, Mavis, right? Even if it's just one, and…
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Dr. Esther Bubb: It makes me think, I don't know if you've ever read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. He was a Holocaust survivor, but he talks about going through the Holocaust. I mean, you know what the Holocaust was about, but like he came out and found meaning. So that struggle that you talk about, you came out and you found purpose. So I think it's if we, the more that we as leaders.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And as people who has lived for a number of years can help people find themselves, find their way.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: You know, I really think you are exactly.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Because I like to say to my your scars don't disqualify you. They equip you to fulfill purpose by helping others. So don't be ashamed of your journey and of your story. Tell it. It will help someone else to survive.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, wonderful. Thank you. So let's talk about your career a bit and leadership lessons from your career, right? We talked about like your personal journey, things like that. So in your role, you started off with like sort of.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Telling us about your track, you know, that took you to where you are now. What are some of the most important leadership lessons you learned throughout your career?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: The very first one. Thank you, Esther, for that question. Spot on.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Leadership is influence.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I see leadership as if someone is really a leader.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: People will want to follow you because they want to, not because they have to.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: So if you are following me because of a title.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And if that title is stripped away today or tomorrow, there is no influence. You're really not a leader. Leader, you have to have somebody following you for you to be a leader. Simply put. Yes. So I've learned throughout my leadership journey that influence is a key, key component.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, of course.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: of leadership.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I've also learned that even if you are going through your season of pain.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Never stop learning, never stop growing, never stop educating yourself.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And I'm speaking from a point and an area and a place of experience, because that is exactly what I did.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And I am not here to tell anyone it was easy. It was not easy, but I was determined because education opened and unlocked doors and it just.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Che.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: you to a higher level in your life, in your personal life, in your professional life. So while I was going through my personal challenges, my divorce and fighting with the children to, well, not fighting, but dealing with.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: and all of that. I poured myself into advancing my educational journey, you know.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Went, did a diploma, then I went on to do an MBA, and then I went on to become a certified leaders.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Under John Maxwell. And I am still learning, and I am still growing. I have not completed yet. As far… as long as I'm alive, I will continue to learn, and I will continue to grow. So, that's one of the key things I will say as a leader, because you want to be a step ahead of who you are leading, obviously.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, absolutely.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: You have to remain relevant to the times that we are living in. You should be continually seeking to grow and develop yourself. And the last thing I will say about that is leadership is not about perfection. It is about consistency.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: As we say, we noticed the phrase very well, the race is not for the swiftest.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Those that endure to the end. So sticking it out, digging in our heels, the grit, the resilience, not perfection, but every day showing up consistently and being that example to those who you are leading. That is what leadership is all about.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wonderful. And I love that you said, you know, if you strip away the title that people still would follow, right?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: All right.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Because at the core, it's really who you are and not about, you know, that specific title or the letters behind your name even.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: It's just really who you are at the core.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And people would see that. I know that. Oh, let's talk a little bit about freedom, right? I know there's a lot of freedom in your life now, you know, freedom and leadership, right? So your mission really, you know, is to help leaders, but just let's say people, right? People you come in contact with experience freedom.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. Freedom of mind, freedom of heart, freedom of soul, freedom of purpose. Right. What does freedom mean in the context of leadership and life?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I would say freedom is living according to your purpose.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Living according to.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: What someone else define for you.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And of course, living according to your purpose, you first have to know what that purpose is. Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: So not allowing the limiting beliefs and what other people project onto you as you're really not free because you're living someone else's truth. You have to live your truth as an individual. And that was what a part of what I was experiencing in that, in that toxic relationship.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I was trying to meet other people's expectation and I was suffering in the process How long do you do that for it's like you have a pot boiling with some milk or so on and you cover it How long will that cover remain after a while it will fly off So that is what happened to me I I could have I kept it but for so long and after a while I could not So freedom really is living in that's how I would define it is.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: according to your purpose And when you are fulfilling your purpose like you indicated you didn't realize that you had that skill and ability until someone pointed it out to you And I'm sure in your role now you're feeling fulfilled but.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Not pointing it out for you probably, probably may not have realized sooner rather than later. I'm not sure. But in my case, I had to choose what was comfortable for me at the time.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And, choosing… My… Truth?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: rather than what others think.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: So there was this expectation, you know, Christian and marriage and really, and that's why I probably, I went and I came back, I went and I came back and I'm trying to keep this marriage together because this is a face that is, I'm supposed to live in.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Good job.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And I realized, no, Mavis, you are suffering. This is not going to work out. I had to make the hard decision. Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Freedom, leaders experience freedom, certainly, and freedom, living according to your purpose and according to your truth.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, according to your purpose and according to your truth. I like that. And.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: you know, I think I'm also pulling from that, you know, without you necessarily saying that, your values. Because I think at the end of the day, maybe it's your values that led you, right, you went back to your core values, you dug deep, and you're like, yeah, this just does not align with me, with what I believe, with what I think, or where I think my life should be, and how I should be living.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And then you went back to that and you spoke truth to yourself. Right? And then so whether it's your personal life, professional life, like really being able to support people, right, with staying true to their values. And if they're in a position or marriage or whatever it is that doesn't align.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: They need to start asking questions and making those decisions and movements to get them somewhere where it aligns, because then you're at peace, and you're free.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And you, and you know when you are free, you know that you're not living in someone else's shoes. Even if you're in a relationship, you don't have to conform to the other person.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: 2 distinct individuals and you need to be able to experience freedom in a relationship.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes. Wonderful, wonderful. Yeah, so.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Freedom. Let's talk about women, right? Let's talk about women in leadership. You know, this is just really important to me because we talk about women, we talk about black women, we talk about Caribbean women, right? Things like that. But what unique challenges do women as leaders face and what strategies have helped you navigate them successfully?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Mmm, okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Rising in leadership as a woman is not for the faint of heart.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: is not a walk in the park, I would say.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmhm.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: You got to push through some boundaries, the stereotypes, the limiting beliefs, the gender biases and everything else that comes with it. Plus.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: managing the personal and the professional responsibilities, because, especially in the Caribbean, it's still the managing of the home and the family life, it's still centered and skewed primarily towards women, yes? And that's the reality.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: So what did I do? I had to make several tough decisions. I remember an opportunity coming up for me to take up an assignment in another jurisdiction.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And around that time,
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: my sons, you know, they were just making that transition out of secondary, perhaps into tertiary, or that sort of thing. It was a critical time when they had to write exams and so on, and
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I didn't have anyone, you know, reliable that I wanted to leave them with for 2-3 years, so I made the decision, as you said previously, according to my values, what is important here? What is important here? I need to lay that foundation, and so I sacrificed that position, but another position, and a higher position came afterwards, right?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: We just have to know what our values are, so for me, that was it. And another thing I did, too, was my support system, because
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I mean, women nowadays, we're not just…
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: working women. We are building businesses. We are leading teams. We are caring for children, some different varying ages. It's a lot.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And yes, some people may say you cannot have it all. Well, I like to say you can have it all with support systems. Yes. Don't try to do it all by yourself. So that's what I did. My mom was a great supporter. Other family members came in. You have to have that family village.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Just cannot do it on your own because you will experience burnout. Yes. Right. So that's one of the recommendations and one of the suggestions I will give getting support, whether it's paid support, volunteer support, what have you, because at the end of the day, you know, you wanna balance the professional, you're going up a certain trajectory in your career and you wanna continue like that.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: You, you, you still have a family to deal with, right? At the end of the day, you have a family to deal.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, so.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: That was what I did. I got lots of support from family. I mean, there are times I have to have a paid helper, but I did.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And then had to become very creative in terms of balancing, taking my vacation for studying.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It was not vacation in the true sense of vacation. It was leave, but I sort of did that around the time when I knew I had exams so that I can be home.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: to complete my exams. And that's what I did. That's why I managed
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Rising to leadership position as a woman is not for the faint of heart, but we can do it, and we can do it successfully.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, so we can do it. We can do it successfully.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And, you know, it makes me think, you know, as you were talking about just embracing the fact, two things that made me think about embracing the fact that we are good enough. We are good enough, right?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: You're good enough for this position. I'm good enough, right? If you're there and you have the qualifications, you're good enough. If you don't have the experience, that's okay too, right? We can support you.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But it also made me think of, because you talked about, like, giving up this great opportunity to focus on your kids, so not fitting into anyone's mold, because we know, growing up in Grenada, right, there's a certain mold, like, you have… this is a particular school, and, you know, you have to become doctor, like, you know, those sorts of standards, and like, well, people would say, well, why on earth would you pass up, you know, this position, right?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Mmm.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But it's not fitting into anyone's mold. It's knowing who we are, knowing our values, knowing what our goals are, what's important, our priorities, and creating our own molds, right, that we fit into, and having faith and taking courage in that, as you talked about courage initially.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yeah, I mean, I'm happy you said that because another thing that women who are aspiring towards leadership roles face.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: is limiting beliefs. I mean, I had that experience where my former manager
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Told me, apply for this particular opportunity that was available, and I'm like, no.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: No, that's not for me. I am not qualified. But she kept insisting.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And eventually I took it on. And would you believe taking up that opportunity is what propelled me up to management position? Because when the vacancy came, another vacancy came, I happened to be in the right place at the right time. Had I not taken that prior opportunity and take the leap, as it were, in fear.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes, I did it. Who knows where I would have been today? So sometimes we look at ourselves and say, I'm not good enough for this. I'm not good enough for that. Oh, I'm not qualified. Take the leap. We can do it.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, wonderful.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: On the other side of fear is growth.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: It's growth. Exactly. And it's like not allowing imposter syndrome, right?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Tickets.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Full of us, right? Correct.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: let's go back a bit to values, maybe, right? Leadership, right, and values. We talked about values a bit, you know, how can leaders stay grounded? I… this, to me, maybe this is something that's very critical. Whether it's a leader, whether it's a child, it doesn't matter, right? But in life.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: We have to know what our values are. We always have to be able to answer that question, and we have to be able to hold true to them regardless of what we're facing so that we continue to stay on that path, right? And we don't veer off because, you know, we're pressured, right? How can leaders stay grounded in their values during times of uncertainty and change?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Right, and for me.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It starts with first understanding what your values are, because that's your compass, really.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: If you ask me what my value is, I will say it's faith.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Integrity, excellence. As a matter of fact, my motto is, if something is worth doing, it's worth doing well.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Well, if I…
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: make a commitment to do something, I'm going to give it my best shot. Yes. So that's where the whole excellence come in.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And so, I believe understanding first what your values are, and remaining grounded and rooted to that, that basically is your compass, so that it allows you now to decide to make a choice.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Right? Making the choice based on your value should not be a difficult thing to do, I would say.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But it first starts with understanding what those values are. I gave the example previously about my sons and understanding, okay, what is important here? Somebody is, perhaps that may not be important to them. They leave the children with whoever and go.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Me having that grounding with my sons at that age, I didn't think that is something that could have been replaced. So I made a decision then, no, I need to remain here. It's not going to be forever. I'm going to remain here and make sure they remain grounded. Yes. So leaders who are grounded in their values, there's some what you call non negotiables.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: It becomes easy. This is not something that I'm negotiating on. This is a no, no, as we will say, you got to understand that. And then.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: When you, when you understand what the non-negotiables are, you, you live your life to mean a bit more peaceful and not everything flutter, flutter and everything you're jumping at, you know, there are some things you just don't even have to think about because that's not part of your DNA. So.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: in.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: When we understand that, and when a leader understands that, it really helps them to make decisions, especially during challenging times, because as leaders, we all have our fair share of challenges. And what do we go back to? Our compass and our values.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, I love, you know, everything you said, you know, and it holds you true to who you are. So like one of my big values is humanity, right? And
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Dr. Esther Bubb: I'm sure you have the same value, but like treating everybody as a person, regardless of their race, religion, you know, belief, their ability, you know, things like that. Everybody's a person. And so I remember, you know, I was in on the playground and a staff was the way that she was talking. So right now I'm primarily work the students.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: That the staff I support work with are, like, 3 to 5, right? Sometimes 6.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But the child made a decision, they're children, and say, for example, he threw a toy away, or he threw a toy across the rug, and the staff member said to him, well, if you shouldn't have done that, and the way she said it was like, well, if you didn't do that, you would have it now. Well, I immediately spoke up first, stly, because of my value of humanity.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: I do not care what the ability of that child is. At the end of the day, that child is a person. So we're going to talk to them respectfully, but it just didn't align with our professional expectations, right? So things like that, I would always speak up, because I'm like, this child
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Dr. Esther Bubb: This whoever is a person, a person first, and we have to, to treat them as such. But I also think of our values of like behavioral commitments. These are the things we committed to.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And they help groan us and sort of pull us back.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And you mentioned the word, you know, non negotiables, and it made me think of, there are so many different ways we could apply this and help, you know, those we lead and support think of this, but I always have conversations, even like with Michaela, I'm like, all right, if you're going to buy a house, know what's negotiable and know what's not. So if you, if you know you're going to want a house with a garage, like, and your realtor shows you one, you're like, yep, moving on, right? So I think once we know all of those things, it helps us too with making decisions
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Dr. Esther Bubb: decisions as leaders, but, you know, helping guide others to make those decisions too, you know.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Exactly. Non negotiables. We have to know that it's not like today. I'm okay. I'm okay with this next week. I'm not okay. It's like, which side of the fence are you on? Make up your mind. Come on. You have to have some guiding compass to take you through life. Otherwise, if you don't stand for anything, then you'll, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Yeah.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, exactly.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: We have to know and then we have to lead by example because people look at what we do and not necessarily what we see. Yes.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So let's talk about mentorship a bit. You're a mentor, I would say first and foremost, you know, primarily as a mom, right? That's important there. And then obviously with, you know, all the other people you interact with professionally. And so your son Peter was on, you know, he's doing the podcast series with me and he mentioned, yeah, my mom gave me feedback after she listened, right? So again, mentorship there in the moment, you know, live and direct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So thinking of that, like, you have the opportunity now to mentor so many people, so do I, and several people that we know, and just in life, in the world in general, but who were the mentors, maybe, that you would say shaped your journey the most, and what did they teach you about leadership and life?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: So, my earliest mentor's Esther.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: our parents.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Earliest mentors.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Sticking in those values from an early age, faith, the resilience, the structure, our mamas are very structured and still is a very structured.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: person, and that's where my structure came from, the whole discipline and perseverance and all of that. It has… it laid… and it built a proper and a solid foundation that is unshakable.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I had other mentors throughout life, professional mentors, spiritual mentors, and of course, leadership mentor John Maxwell. I learned so much from, I've never met John Maxwell personally, but you would think I have met him. I have so much.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Books that I've read, podcasts I've listened to, webinars I've listened to. He has been a great mentor on my leadership journey. And one person I really want to point out to in my professional journey, my former manager, she's now retired and lives abroad.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But she really believed in me, and I'm going back to that example where I… that leadership opportunity came up, and I… I just passed it off. I didn't think about it anymore. I'm not bothered with that. But she kept insisting.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I believe in you. As a matter of fact, she said to me, one day, I want to see you come and sit in my chair, and I said to myself, yeah, right, that's not for me. I mean, I didn't tell her that law, but I'm seeing that in my mind. Yeah. I took the challenge, I took the leap, and I…
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: took up that leadership opportunity. There was no predecessor in the role at the time, so I had to figure it out on my own. I remember one time, someone from overseas reached out to me about something, and trust me, I didn't know, and after I finished speaking with him, I hung up the phone, I was there crying a little bit, because I felt
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I didn't know this thing, and I find they were coming, and I reached out, and I said, look, look what they're asking me to do, and so on, and she, she chipped in, and she, she spoke with them, and so on, and they sort of, kind of.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But she really, really, really believed in me. And would you believe, about three years ago.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Her words came to pass.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I actually sat and I'm actually in the position that she left.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: I see.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I actually got into that position and I was still the only one.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Little.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: So I.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Still doubting myself and when the announcement came.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I could not believe it.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: What may… Leaders and what?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And you just saw in me, I was still doubting myself.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So, yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Right? And so with that experience that I've gone through now, naturally, I just mentor people.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And…
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I tend to gravitate towards the younger generation.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I see what they have and I encourage them at work, whether it's in the lunchroom, in the, wherever I meet them in the corners ways, I am always encouraging them.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, sure.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Because I know what I've gone through.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that, that, that is, that is wonderful. That's a wonderful story. And, you know, the value and the strength of mentors and the reach. I don't think they're thinking of that in the moment. They're just thinking of this is what I see. And, you know, I want to support you. And, and, and as you say, like, you know, whether it's the next day or years later.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: We start to see what they spoke into existence and what they helped us believe and have faith in, you know, become true. And I think mentors challenge us and they praise us, right? So I remember, I can't remember what the word was, Mavis. I was in standard one, Ms. Flaherty. And the word she had asked the class to spell, I was the only person who could spell it, but I'll tell you, it's because we grew up in church. So whatever the word was, was, you know, a word we would use in.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: in that setting. I can't remember what the word was.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But she made this big deal, she had me stand up on the table, she had everybody clap for me and stuff, I can't remember what the word was, but that moment up, I mean, I'm however old I am now, and I would never forget that, and then I remember
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Dr. Esther Bubb: in Standard 5, so we had just gotten the TV, you know, we were late to get a TV, how we grew up, right? And so then I started just always watching the TV, watching the TV, and my grades started to slip, and I remember Mr. Halford wrote in my report card, her ability is fading away into thin air.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: My, my, my.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Challenge. That was the challenge. So it's like, yeah, they'll praise you, but they'll also challenge you. They'll also, and they
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Dr. Esther Bubb: They will tell you the truth, they have to be able to tell you the truth. Whether we're willing to accept it or not, it's a different story. But I think, you know, she told you the truth, she told you what she saw. You talk about, like, supporting the young, the youth in Grenada, or wherever, right? You know, wherever your audience reaches, but it's, like, speaking truth.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Into them, helping them see and believe and acknowledge the truth of their lives and, you know, where they could be.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct. Correct. I'm I'm a big proponent of that. I mean.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: If you look in the in the lunchroom at work, it's probably two managers you may be able to count on your finger. But I deliberately go to the lunchroom and sit and have lunch because that's where I get the opportunity to mingle.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: with them, not at my desk in my office behind a closed door. That's where I see them. That's where I understand them. That's where I learn a little bit more about them. If I'm in my office behind a closed door and doing work, I wouldn't know that. So I relish that opportunity. I go to the lunchroom so that I get that opportunity. Yeah.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Being on the floor, being.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Eat on the floor. Yes, I want to see it firsthand and experience it firsthand.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: All right, let's shift our conversation a bit to talking about gender-based violence, right? So we know recently, you know, this, this has been on the increase back home in Grenada, but gender violence, gender-based violence is not limited, right? Or isolated to Grenada or the Caribbean, right? It happens across the world.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So it, you know, today it remains a pressing issue in Grenada. So what role can leaders play in changing the attitudes, changing the belief?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: you know, changing how we view it, how we see it, how we talk about it, how we treat it. What is our role, Mavis, in really changing that, the behaviors and the systems that allow this belief of gender-based violence and the actions, you know, that occur to persist?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yeah, and that question on gender based violence is personal and deeply personal to me because.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I actually experienced it in my marriage, so I know exactly what this whole gender-based violence issue is all about and the impacts it can have. And I think we as leaders, we need to create healthy environments where those who are being impacted can feel safe to speak.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Granted that we are in a very close-knit community and I think that's one of the challenges we have in Grenada because of the closeness of our community, the whole confidentiality is always a challenge because you feel if you speak someone else will call your name and then you're probably endangered and all of that, but we have to move away from that. Gone are the days where
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: People are afraid to speak and people, you know, generations down the road and you're holding this secret for generations to come. Gone are the days we are not helping ourselves as a society by brushing it aside and, and you know, pretending it does not exist. So we gotta change it. I mean, I could say for me personally, I mean, beside, before I get to that, we, we have to change.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Education. Education is important. And that's one, one of the reasons why I, I, when I came out of that unhealthy relationship, I didn't just remain there. I said, no, I need to educate myself. I need to push for that MBM.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Because education empowers us and gets some of these people who are engaged in this behavior, empower them, right? So sometimes they are relying on the support system and they're afraid to speak up because where is the dollar is going to come from, you know? And so you sort of sweep it under the carpet and keep it quiet.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yeah. We also have to teach our young people what healthy relationships look like.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I remember when I was going through my difficult situation, one thing that was always in the back of my mind is I do not want my sons to grow up in an environment like this because they would think.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: That is normal.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And I had to send a strong message that this is abnormal. An abusive relationship is abnormal.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: For me, getting out was for their sake. Whereas some people say they are staying in for the children's sake. In my case, I had to get out for their sake because I did not want to model that behavior to them and normalize it. And so when they grow up, they're thinking, this is how you treat someone. No, I had to get out. So we have to make that.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Preach that message loud and clear to leaders. Zero tolerance as far as gender violence is concerned. Create the environment where people are safe, feel safe to speak, and then create that healthy relationship, right?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Spouse, mother, father, what have you. Create that healthy relationship from a very early age so that our children grow up knowing what it is, even if they probably heard it in school or whatever, they will know that it is abnormal. Never, never normalize a situation and all of that will help us to create safer, healthier environments.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: For our children and hopefully we address the issue and reduce the number of instances over time.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, I 100% agree with you, 101% actually.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Okay.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Because, you know, you know, you know, I'm in the behavioral field, right? So, you know, I can take this in a whole different spiel, but I wouldn't, I, I just agree with you. Violence is learned.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: It's tolerated, it's reinforced, right? It's sustained.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And, and normalize through culture. So when I say culture, I'm not talking about just culture of the country, right? But the culture of the household, the culture of the church, the culture of the school, the culture of the neighborhood, right? And going back to what you said, right? You had to come out of it for your sons because they would see that, right? And then believe that's okay. And
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Dr. Esther Bubb: it makes me think of, you know, Albert Bandura's social learning theory, that people learn behaviors and attitudes and emotional reactions primarily by what they observe.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So what we show them, what we show them, we tolerate, we accept, right? And what they see others do to us, then they grow up and they believe this is okay. Right? And so.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Whether they then come to a point in life where they start to interrupt those beliefs, right? And us as parents, us as leaders, us as society members, us in, you know, whatever role we're playing, interrupt those beliefs and those patterns until we start doing that. And that happens, like you said, maybe through education, through conversations, through policies, through accountability, all of those things.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But we have to come together and
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Know that it's okay to speak up, know that it's okay to share your story, know that it's safe, not just physically safe, but also psychologically safe. And how do we support, right? So you're sharing your story with me, but, and not judging, being, just listening, just listening, right? And, and not being judgmental because.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: everyone has a story, and people, perhaps, who hasn't shared their story have probably experienced that, right? And so they have to get to the point where they're comfortable and feel like, I'm safe in mentally, emotionally, psychologically, physically, to share my story, to seek help.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Exactly that word safety, yeah, sums it all up, because you can say as much as you would like, have all the different forums, and if people are not feeling safe, they will not.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes. I mean, you can go get the restraining orders and all the rest of it, but at the end of the day, if you're not safe, you will not speak up. And that is where our society really has to cross over the threshold. As I said, we are a small society in the grand scheme of things. We are closed.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: True.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Everybody knows somebody. Okay, if I talk, this may be the consequence. I wouldn't get the money at the end of the month to deal with the child, or whatever is the story. That should not be excused. Zero tolerance, and we got to continue. And what happens with us in Grenada is, if we have an episode, then the whole country's up in arms, and they…
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Drive and the flags and the placards and everything. And then two weeks, everything went. Then another episode, everybody's up in arms and.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Police and the laws and the legislation and everything.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, sure.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: on this roller coaster. We have to be consistent with our messaging, consistent.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, it goes back to that. And you talked about consistency earlier. We have to be consistent.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And I think going back to your earlier point, maybe it's like if you strip the title, people still follow you, you going to the floor and having conversations, building those relationships, then people feel more trusted, right? They trust you more to share, even if they don't give the whole story. And now that opens up another avenue, right? For you to be able to support or guide. So I, I think in our roles that it's so far reaching that we don't often think about it.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: the impact and the opportunities and the ways we can support people, whether it's professionally or in their personal, right? Because I've had some stuff that I've shared personal stories, right? They know they don't have to, but they just felt some level of comfort and then I'm able to support how I can not getting too involved, right? Because, you know, there's a professional relationship, but just being able to support how I can.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Definitely. And the fact that they're able to come to you, I mean, tells you that there is some level of comfort. And that's, that's where I want, you know, more and more leaders to come to that. People who are in need can feel comfortable.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But coming to you.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Sharing their personal story, whatever they want to share, you know, you don't have to go with the whole gamut, but you get that sense and appreciation of what they're going through, what the experiences are, and based on that, you share from your place of knowledge and experience, you know, things that some people share with me ordinarily, perhaps they may not have, but because I was vulnerable and I share and I said, this is it. I mean, at that point in time, when I was going through, I didn't want anything.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: But I have since gone past that. What am I hiding? These stories need to be out there so that people can learn that it's okay to, if you've not been treated well, it's okay to leave at the end of the day.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Okay. Yeah, it's okay.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. And empower them. So through the education, through the knowledge, through the resources, right? And, and knowledge and education is power. There's so much strength in it.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Right?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I always say that it cannot take it away from you. It is in you. It cannot.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Keeping away. Education is power.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. And reading. Reading.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And it's.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Critical too. Yeah, yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Correct.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: So let's, let's wrap up our conversation, sis. I know we would love to keep going. We'll have to do this again, but let's close off, you know, with what I've been calling the Monday morning move. So not necessarily Monday, but just the general idea of just one thing, right? So what is one Monday morning move, like a specific action, Mavis, you know, that, that listeners can, can take immediately to start creating positive change, positive impact in their own lives, but then also expand.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: sending to their own local communities.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes, and I like that question because at the end of the day, it's internalization. How do we internalize this and what do I do differently?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: After listening to this podcast.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: I would encourage our listeners.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: to identify one limiting belief that has been holding you back.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: and make a decision today.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: to rise above that limiting belief. Yeah. There's a saying that goes, a journey of 1,000 miles begin with one step.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And if we want to achieve something we've never had, we have to do something we have never done.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Fine, yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: We cannot be doing the same thing and expecting different results.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes, so…
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Dr. Esther Bubb: That's insanity.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just identify that one limiting belief that has been holding you back, and take that courageous action.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Whether you are saying, I'm too old, I… my brain's a freeze already, I can't learn anything else. No, you can learn. That's a limiting belief to put behind. Or you may say, oh, the children are small still, so therefore, when they get older… No, do what you can do now.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Whatever is that course you want to do, whatever is that step you want to take, start where you are. The key word here is.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Start. Start. Start.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: And once you keep going, consistency again, you keep going, you can go out the end of the day, look back and see where you have come and you're surprised. Wait, did I do that?
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: That's what you.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Yes, s.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Identify that limiting belief. Take the courageous step and get moving today.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: I love that. It makes me think of this little light of mine. I'm going to let it shine.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: But no, I love that. Take that limiting belief and.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Don't waste the pain. Don't waste it. Extract the lesson and move forward and create change. You may think you're not. Somebody's looking at you, you know, you may.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: a role model, someone is looking at you. So who?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, I love that. Well, Mavis, sis, big sis. Yes.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Assist Oh, youngest is?
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for, for, for joining the show today, for all your inspiring words. So whenever I publish this, I always pull like, you know, great statements. I like pull quotes. So there will be a lot that I'm pulling from this. And then, you know, when I publish, I'll highlight them. But yeah, you gave lots of good golden nuggets. I like to call them, in, in your conversation that listeners can hold on to.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: We'll hold on to, of course,
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Dr. Esther Bubb: And just keep doing what you're doing. Stay true to your purpose. Walk in that. And I know you will hold true to your to your beliefs, your values, and, you know, continue to support your children and those those you interact with on a daily basis. So. So thank you for all you do.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Oh, thank you for having me. I thoroughly enjoyed myself sharing. I didn't even realize it. I flew so much and I'm welcome. You're welcome that we can continue at any other time. And you yourself are doing a great job as well, impacting lives at this impressionable age. Keep up the awesome work that you're doing and we trust that.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: You know, you just never know where this, where the impact of this will get to, but keep doing it. Keep being consistent as you are.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: Thank you so much. And stay true to your values.
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Dr. Esther Bubb: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
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Mavis Bubb Leadership Coach: You're welcome.
Outro
Thank you for listening to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers. Be sure to visit esthercbubbabaservices.com/blog for today's companion blog and additional leadership resources. Until next time, create the conditions for growth wherever you lead. I'm Dr. Esther Bubb. Stay inspired.