Finding Your Purpose and Connecting with Customers with Michelle Vandepas

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Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal podcast, the podcast where empathy meets marketing strategy.
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I'm your host, mike Caldwell, but I'm also known as the marketing medic.
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Now, the reason for that is because, before becoming a marketing strategist, I actually worked as a paramedic for 12 years, and it was during that time that I realized how important it was to truly understand the problems your patient was facing before you started providing treatment.
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And it's the same understanding, the same empathy, is just as crucial when it comes to understanding our prospects and making sales, and that's why, in each episode, we'll dissect the art of empathic marketing, exploring how top professionals infuse empathy into their strategies to build stronger relationships, boost their sales and make a lasting impact.
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So buckle up and prepare to turn up the dial on your marketing effectiveness.
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As we gear up to dive deeper into the realm of empathic marketing, I'd like to share a couple of special offers with you.
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First, you can get a free copy of my international bestselling book Empathic Marketing.
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You only need to cover the cost of shipping.
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Reading this will provide you with a much more in-depth understanding of the empathy-based marketing approach that we explore in this show.
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Next, I'm offering a 50% discount on a transformative 30-minute gap analysis session with me.
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Reading this session will identify the hurdles in your marketing efforts and together will develop an actionable roadmap aimed at winning you more clients and making you more sales.
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Just visit my website, wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom to grab your book or use coupon code podcast to take advantage of my gap analysis offer.
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So why wait?
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Let's start turbocharging your marketing strategy today.
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Now let's get started with our episode.
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Everyone welcome back to the Because Business Is Personal podcast.
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Today we have Michelle Van Depass, who is an accomplished professional who captivates with her empowering message and unwavering support.
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As a seasoned author, speaker and coach, she has a wealth of experience and profound insights into publishing, online marketing and living with purpose.
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Michelle lives in the mountains of Colorado, as I once did, where she lives with her family, 40 goldfish and I'm going to have to ask some questions about those goldfish and the occasional mountain lion or bear.
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Oh my, michelle is often walking through nature, thinking of new ways to help her clients live their most authentically successful lives and also grounding herself in the beauty of the world around her, whether at home or through her travel.
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So welcome Michelle.
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So excited to have fellow Coloridian here with me.
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Yeah, absolutely, it's a pleasure to be here.
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Thanks for having me.
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Very cool indeed.
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So the book I wrote is called Empathic Marketing and my podcast is called Because Business Is Personal.
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So clearly I like to dip into the human side of things.
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So before we get into all things business, my first question is what is something not business related about you that our listeners may find interesting or quirky?
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And if it involves 40 goldfish, I'd love to hear that answer.
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I was going to say it.
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so I got a couple of stories.
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But 40 goldfish is pretty cool.
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So you're from Colorado.
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You may know about the growing domes where you have their big like translucent greenhouses that will go through the mountains and you can put a big fish tank in there.
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The idea is that you can grow tilapia or something right and then you use that water to garden.
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But I put 99-cent goldfish in there and I've had some of them for a decade now and they're like this big and I got a big like propagating baby.
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So I've got like six little babies like this from this year and then I have like huge goldfish.
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They act like coy and they swim around.
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They're super cool and I go up there when I need a moment of zen.
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Wow.
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And so I had like one goldfish growing up in my little goldfish bowl and I had to change the water all the time and that was a pretty involved process just changing the like.
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We had to take the goldfish out of the one jar and put it in another one.
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How do you?
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How do you do that with?
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I don't, I don't, I just don't.
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So probably should Send me hate mail, please, nobody.
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But what I do do, what we do do, is we have an aerator in there and we got a fountain that circulates the water and I think that helps, and then I put some live plants in there once in a while and I think that helps.
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And so the water can get a little dirty, but eventually it cleans itself out.
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Oh cool, it's more of a natural environment.
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It's a very yes, that's a good way to put it.
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It's a holistic natural environment.
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Okay, but why don't you hit me with another non-business interesting Michelle fun fact?
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So I took my daughter to be an extra in a movie one time was Robert Redford and Jane Fonda and she didn't get to be cast.
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But I did, oh, no and yeah.
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So I asked her is it okay if I go?
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She's like yes, she was like I don't know, maybe 14 or something, at the time in Florence, colorado.
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Do you remember Florence from your days here, tiny little town South of Colorado.
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Springs Right?
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Yes, I didn't get.
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I spent most of my time like in the heart of the Rocky, so I didn't get too far that way.
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Tiny little town and they filmed down there and I went down for like three days of filming and it was super fun and I'd never been on the film set before and there was a waitress or cafe owner and all of this and we told the celebrities in the movie not as a caterer.
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And then the movie came out, my whole family gathers around their word glued to it, right, and you see me changing that.
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The opening scene is I'm changing from the cafe sign from open to closed and we're like, oh, opening scene, that's so cool.
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You can't see my face or anything.
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And then we watched the whole movie and that's it.
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I got like this.
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It's like that.
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I have like a half a second in the movie.
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You can't even see my face, but it was super fun.
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Well, I was actually in a movie in Colorado as well, and I was on the screen much longer, but you couldn't see me, and so when I was in Colorado, I was a paramedic, I was a firefighter paramedic, and I also worked on some of the movies, some of the movies that were filmed there, and so I can't remember the name of the movie, but it was Danny Glover and Dennis Quaid.
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And Danny.
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Glover was a serial killer and he had this really cool car where he had like all like nudy pictures of girls, like that, upholstered, his frenzied of scar, and he used to kill people by slashing their femoral arteries, anyway, and Dennis Quaid was the cop that was chasing after him.
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And anyway, the scene that I was in, they're on a train just north of Vale.
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They're the hosts.
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Let's say yeah, yeah, докум, if you got today's movie, yeah, but they'reinsideeston absolutely acknowledged this right now, sorry, ah, in conditions like this.
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And they were, they're fighting Danny Glover and Dennis Quaid.
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They weren't there when I was there there was the stunt doubles, but they were fighting on the roof of the train and we kept.
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We had to do all these like test shots and test shots there there's a whole bunch was crammed into this caboose and then when it was actually we were finally ready to shoot the scene, like okay, everybody off the caboose, everybody, you know Gone.
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So I started to leave, like where are you going?
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I'm, like you said, everybody off.
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Like no, the director and the medic stays in the caboose.
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So everybody else had to get off and we had like huddled down so you couldn't see us.
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Well, you know the Dennis and Randy.
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Dennis and Danny stunt doubles were fighting on the roof above.
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So yeah, I was, I was in the movie for you know a couple of minutes, but you couldn't see me because I was and I did.
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I met Danny Glover.
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I treated him a fair number of times.
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He the dry air in Colorado really bothered his nose and so he kept getting nosebleeds.
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He got a lot of nosebleeds out there just from the dry air, but anyway, that's, you couldn't see how's there?
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Alright, so let's.
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So let me tell.
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Tell me a little bit about your business and what you do.
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Well, first and foremost, I'm a book publisher, but what that really means is I help people get their Message out, live their purpose through some usually business or entrepreneurial venture in a book usually is part of that.
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Okay, get your message out and you have a fabulous book.
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Right, empathetic business.
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Did I get that Pathic?
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marketing marketing, marketing Title.
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I just love it.
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Impact, so I'm sure and talk about that and so you know it's part of your message, is part of your Foundation, it's all kind of part of your and so I coach a lot around.
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How do you bring your Message, your purpose, your meaning and your business together and get, find all the different ways to find your audience, and the book is part of that.
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Okay, yeah, cuz I think a lot of people Published their book with the plan and that's gonna be their business, like their book, right.
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But it's really just a glorified credit card, or not?
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Credit card business card.
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It's a great business card that gives you a published author, gives you some decent authority, right totally, and you know people will buy from you because you have a book, or they will be impressed because you have a book, even if they Never read the book.
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That's right.
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That is so true.
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So what motivated you to become what you are today, and have you had any regrets since making that decision?
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So, as an entrepreneur, I think all of us have some sleepless nights on occasion, right?
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Yes.
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I don't have regrets.
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I don't think I had another choice.
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Really I've been doing this Not the book, these but I started in marketing, like in the 90s.
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I had a couple of small businesses and I was helping other people market their businesses.
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And when you're helping other people market so much of that is coaching, right you have to like ask questions and listen and find out how they want to market when you know I mean, I'm going back a ways here like get the internet, we're talking about putting flyers up at grocery stores, right and you're figuring out how to get the word out about your business.
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And that just sort of naturally morphed into what I do now, which is coaching and consulting and helping people grow their businesses Through what I would call a holistic approach and aligned approach and using books and Podcasts and all those other ones to help get your message out.
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Okay, and you kind of touched on it with, like the, with the flyers and different things.
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But since you have been doing this for so long and you know sort of not yeah, I guess I think I got my first email address and maybe like 1999 or something, so the internet wasn't really that big, you know.
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So how, how has what you do changed?
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What are the sort of compare and contrast, like the pros and cons from them?
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Because everybody Everything's, it's so hard now, but, like, how does it compare and contrast to the earlier days?
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Yeah, you know, what's interesting is on the outside, everything's changed, but internally, nothing is.
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You're still doing business with people.
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You still have to make connections.
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You still have to look at people in the eye.
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I mean, yeah, you can like set up your shopping cart and hope people like click and buy, but there has to be people underneath.
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That AI is not going to take over the world.
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That's my personal view, because we still need that in our archery, still need human connection, and so none of that has changed.
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I talk all the time about think how your great grandparents did business.
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Think about going to some rural community and you go to a farm stand.
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That's really at the root of all of it, and so none of that has really changed.
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If you're struggling in your business, it's probably a lead thing, my gas and it could be all kinds of things, but it might be you don't have enough leads, you don't have enough clients, and the way to fix that is go talk to more people.
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Okay, right, which is what you and I are doing right now, exactly and Expanding our reach, our network.
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Hopefully, we're having some fun doing it.
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Yeah, so that is changed.
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Yeah, the internet is changed.
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It's really busy out there, but there's more people to sell to.
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So you still have to find your, your sweet spot, your niche.
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Okay, it's.
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I see you did a Ted talk.
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I want to ask you about that in a second.
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But I am applying to get my own Ted talk now, like you say, to reach out, get that exposure.
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And you know my?
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Of course you don't know.
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I just I'll tell you my Ted talk is entitled AI may be the future, but human connection will always be the present.
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I, so I heard a podcast yesterday with the guy who started Khan Academy.
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Okay, what is that?
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KHA and Academy.
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It's like the biggest school YouTube.
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Like, if you want to learn about a math equation, you go to Khan Academy and they'll just teach you for free.
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Okay, cool.
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All right, but he's talking about future of AI and business and it's like he's building this thing out.
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That's like Star Trek, the holly-holly bones, where they Halledeck yes.
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Well, that actually sounds super fun, right to go on the house.
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So there's pieces of AI I think I'm looking forward to I'm not quite there yet, but but it's never gonna replace these kinds of conversations.
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No, and I'm actually using chat GBT more and more every day, and it's just my research assistant now, and so I still make those human connections one-on-one because those are necessary.
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But before, when I wanted to learn about my audience, I'd have to go into all the different Facebook groups and read the comments and ask questions, wait for responses, go to Amazon, look at my competitors, books, see what the comments are to get an idea of who my audience is.
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And now chat.
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Chatted me.
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What's that I'm a GPT chatted me, did I?
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I put my name in GPT chat to find out, to prepare.
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That's what I'm asking, right.
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Oh no, I did not do that.
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I did not do that because chat GPT is only yeah, so it only goes back.
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it's two years before now and prior to that, so it doesn't have a lot of new stuff.
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So if I wanted, to talk to you now.
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It wouldn't know the last two years about you.
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That's the most important stuff, right, but for my customer avatar it can do a lot of the research a lot faster than I could before, and so I do a lot of the stuff I teach is from Eugene Swartz Breakthrough Advertising, which is a really famous marketing book, and chat has read that.
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So I can ask you, based on Eugene Swartz Breakthrough Advertising Problem Awareness Scale, where is my audience in X, y and Z?
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And it'll give me that answer based on how I asked it, and so now when I talk to my avatar, I can speak to them at the level that they're at, and so it's very helpful for those reasons.
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Well, I can't wait to watch your TED Talk coming.
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Yes, yes, all right, let's see what my next question is.
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So can you share an interesting story about a major challenge you faced in your business and what did you do to overcome that?
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There's been so many.
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So you know, in the middle of COVID we lost books on the docs and in the tankers and in China and all that stuff, right, oh no, publishers had supply chain issues and books lost.
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I don't know if I'm allowed to really say who, but there's one big distributor of books that everybody knows.
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It's a pain in the freaking butt.
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Oh no okay and as a book publisher, you know, when you have just really one or two places where most people buy their books and you have to be on their platforms, it's really difficult as an entrepreneur to like have all your eggs in one basket right.
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I don't like that, and so I'm always looking for other ways to get books out and other ways to distribute.
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What are other ways that you can connect with your audience and where else can we sell it?
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Because otherwise we're just relying on, like Amazon or Amazon Mobile or whatever the equivalent is in Canada.
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Same to yeah, yeah.
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W H Smith in the UK.
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Right, and we.
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As an entrepreneur, you can't put your eggs in one basket, so that's one of the things that keeps me up at night still.
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Right.
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I'm learning about that.
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And then, of course, always, I think, for every entrepreneur how do you get enough leads?
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How do you get the right leads?
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How do you get the right leads faster?
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Right.
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And I don't even like to call them leads, and I think this speaks to your language.
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How do you find your clients and your future customers to need what you have Right, and so the background is lead, but that sounds so cold and harsh, and really what I'm looking for are the people that need what I have, and we're a good match.
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Okay, I have a real estate coach client, so he's a realtor coach.
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He teaches other realtors how to be better realtors and realtors are all about their database.
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Right, how big is your database?
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And like you, he hates that term.
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He's like no, you don't need a database.
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You need between 50 and 100 ultimate humans in your life.
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So, he likes to call his database ultimate humans and he treats them like ultimate humans.
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He doesn't treat them like data right, and that's a huge difference when you look at that way.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So what did you do when your books disappeared off the docks?
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Like, how'd you overcome that?
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Oh yeah, I'll cry a lot.
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Just crying works.
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Yes, crying is very helpful.
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Our clients were like yelling at us and there's nothing we could do, like everybody was just so burned out during COVID.
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You know, it's like it's hard to remember.
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It wasn't that long ago, 2021, books just were not getting shipped from various places and the end of 2020, things were just stuck.
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If you guys remember, we saw pictures of tanker ships that stuck in canals.
00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:51.823
Right, that's right.
00:19:51.823 --> 00:19:54.468
A lot of those were full of books Okay.
00:19:56.075 --> 00:19:57.278
And supply chain issues.
00:19:57.278 --> 00:19:58.816
We all thought it would be toilet paper.
00:19:58.816 --> 00:20:03.673
Well, it was books, amongst other things, and so you know.
00:20:03.673 --> 00:20:09.637
You have an author who is so excited for a book launch and then their books don't arrive and there's nothing we can do.
00:20:09.637 --> 00:20:12.458
We're like it's out there in the middle of the ocean somewhere.
00:20:12.458 --> 00:20:14.373
That was hard.
00:20:14.373 --> 00:20:18.278
The only thing you can do is tell the truth and try to work through it together.
00:20:18.278 --> 00:20:20.255
There's really nothing else you can do.
00:20:21.829 --> 00:20:26.741
So, as a book publisher, it sounds like you're in a David and Goliath situation.
00:20:26.741 --> 00:20:30.980
So like how do you compete against Amazon?
00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:32.313
How does that even work?
00:20:33.076 --> 00:20:33.336
Right?
00:20:33.336 --> 00:20:34.019
Well, you can't.
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:36.596
You have to put your eggs in their basket.
00:20:37.218 --> 00:20:37.519
Okay.
00:20:37.869 --> 00:20:39.837
And then sell through Amazon.
00:20:39.837 --> 00:20:48.135
You can't compete with them, so we publish through Amazon as well as through other places, right, okay, and they take their cut.
00:20:48.135 --> 00:20:49.996
That's true of the bookstore, too.
00:20:49.996 --> 00:20:58.861
They take their cut, and distributors take their cut, and printers take their cut, and then if someone returns a book, everybody loses that whole cut, right?
00:20:58.861 --> 00:21:05.680
And so it's not a question of competing and I think this is probably true with most businesses.
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:11.862
It's finding out who you have to play with, like, in our case, amazon.
00:21:11.862 --> 00:21:21.160
And then who else can you play with and what other baskets can you find, or what other playgrounds can you find and where is your?
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:27.232
You know what is our niche and what is our specialty and what is our gift to the world and how is a company?
00:21:27.232 --> 00:21:34.939
Can we go serve the people that need us and not just rely or compete on one place like Amazon, right?
00:21:35.180 --> 00:21:43.635
Okay, yeah, I think that's such a huge lesson as entrepreneurs Before I got into marketing, as to the degree I am now.
00:21:43.635 --> 00:21:48.817
Google came up with some new rules and the big Google slap it's called right.
00:21:49.571 --> 00:21:53.306
So, everybody was just making money, hand over a fist with Google.
00:21:53.306 --> 00:21:58.997
Then they just Google slapped and they shut everybody down and so that flow of cash was just stopped.
00:21:58.997 --> 00:22:03.756
And then a lot of them move said oh well, we've got Facebook, we'll just move over to Facebook.
00:22:03.756 --> 00:22:05.375
And so they just did.
00:22:05.375 --> 00:22:07.240
They just moved everything to Facebook.
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:16.741
And then a couple of years later, facebook came out with all these restrictions and I had one client we just lost our account and we weren't breaking any rules, right, facebook doesn't care.
00:22:16.741 --> 00:22:17.150
Like.
00:22:17.150 --> 00:22:19.597
We tried to ask them, they're like well, let's just start another.
00:22:19.597 --> 00:22:23.758
Like we can't reactivate your account, but if you want to start a new one, you could do that.
00:22:23.758 --> 00:22:28.480
I was like I'll happily do that, but I'm going to keep doing what I was doing.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.476
And you said I couldn't do that.
00:22:30.476 --> 00:22:33.038
Just please tell me what I was doing wrong.
00:22:33.672 --> 00:22:38.834
And they won't tell you Right, so you got to be diverse and you get it.
00:22:38.894 --> 00:22:41.821
You know there's a, there's a thing hang up and call again.
00:22:41.821 --> 00:22:42.994
You'll get a different person.
00:22:42.994 --> 00:22:45.038
Amazon's like that Facebook.
00:22:45.038 --> 00:22:49.217
You don't get people, but it's you just keep trying, keep trying and keep trying.
00:22:49.217 --> 00:22:51.561
Hang up, reach out, reach out, reach out.
00:22:51.561 --> 00:22:55.219
Eventually maybe you'll get someone who knows the answer, but maybe never.
00:22:55.219 --> 00:23:08.046
I had 700 reviews of mine taken down from Amazon because someone complained that I was in the industry, and so 700 reviews were pulled.
00:23:08.046 --> 00:23:14.201
Nothing I could do about it, because enough time had passed and I don't tear up when I talk about it anymore.
00:23:14.201 --> 00:23:19.339
That was a hard thing and there was not a thing I could do about it.
00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:23.413
Sorry, I mean you're in the industry, you can't leave reviews.
00:23:23.413 --> 00:23:31.642
I actually wrote them all before I was in the industry, but I mean I was always kind of in the industry, but before I had my own publishing company.
00:23:32.304 --> 00:23:33.547
Right, holy smokes.
00:23:33.547 --> 00:23:41.740
But that's also another valuable lesson is just to never quit and keep trying Like say, hang up and call again.
00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:43.699
Yeah, hang up and call again.
00:23:43.739 --> 00:23:45.021
Try again.
00:23:45.021 --> 00:23:46.806
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
00:23:48.457 --> 00:23:50.863
We live off the grid here and I Nice.
00:23:50.863 --> 00:23:59.404
So we started that 20 years ago and so my biggest story for that is when we wanted to put we needed a deep well.
00:23:59.404 --> 00:24:05.736
So we had a deep well, we needed a pump and the inverters that you used to convert the direct current from your battery to alternating current.
00:24:05.736 --> 00:24:13.198
They were smaller 20 years ago and the amount of power that a well pump uses when it turns on, you know when your fridge turns on and the lights go dim.
00:24:14.201 --> 00:24:14.823
I'm on a well.
00:24:15.585 --> 00:24:17.921
Okay, so you know, like it's an energy hammer, it's called right.
00:24:18.221 --> 00:24:18.321
Yeah.
00:24:19.275 --> 00:24:20.199
And so that's a big spike.
00:24:20.199 --> 00:24:28.348
So my inverter could handle the well pump running, but it couldn't handle the well pump starting.
00:24:28.348 --> 00:24:29.097
All right.
00:24:29.097 --> 00:24:31.315
So I went to the well pump store.
00:24:31.315 --> 00:24:32.380
I'm like, yeah, I got this problem.
00:24:32.380 --> 00:24:33.217
Like what can I do?
00:24:33.217 --> 00:24:37.016
Nothing Like get a bigger inverter, you know.
00:24:37.016 --> 00:24:38.662
I'm like, well, that can't be right.
00:24:38.662 --> 00:24:51.202
And then somebody said, well, you could use a DC inverter, dc well pump instead of an AC well pump, but that doesn't pump as much water as your shower head will use, so you can have like a five minute shower once your pressure tank's done.
00:24:51.202 --> 00:24:54.155
Then you're out of water, so you can do that Anyway.
00:24:54.618 --> 00:24:56.588
But I just I'm like that can't be the answer.
00:24:56.588 --> 00:24:57.755
There's got to be a solution.
00:24:57.755 --> 00:25:05.499
And I just kept going to place after place after place and then finally I went to one place and he's like, well, why don't you just use a soft start well pump?
00:25:05.499 --> 00:25:06.923
Like I'm an idiot.
00:25:06.923 --> 00:25:09.001
He's like, why don't you just use that?
00:25:09.001 --> 00:25:11.402
I'm like, what is a soft start well pump?
00:25:11.402 --> 00:25:21.566
He's like, well, most, most motors, they go from zero to a hundred like in a split second, and a soft start just slowly ramps up so you don't get that energy hammer.
00:25:21.566 --> 00:25:22.016
So why don't?
00:25:22.016 --> 00:25:24.040
I don't understand, why don't you just use that?
00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:34.642
I've spoken to a dozen people and you're the first person to tell me this machine exists, right, and yeah, and it was so obvious to him.
00:25:34.642 --> 00:25:37.482
So obvious, so easy, such a simple solution.
00:25:38.075 --> 00:25:39.039
And there's a couple of things.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:46.261
Number one that's what makes you an entrepreneur is you're just going to keep hammering away at it to find the answer right.
00:25:46.261 --> 00:25:53.099
Yep, and a lot of tenacity comes with being an entrepreneur, and there's a lot of just you know, hang out and call again.
00:25:53.099 --> 00:26:03.414
You just got to keep with it, and not every entrepreneur has that, but it is one of the things that can make you a little bit more successful.
00:26:03.414 --> 00:26:08.520
Oh, you got to have it and yes, yes, we.
00:26:08.882 --> 00:26:17.006
Yeah, I do cry sometimes, but you have to tear it out Off the grid is not easy either.
00:26:17.115 --> 00:26:29.298
I'm not off the grid but I'm on a well and you know our electric goes down quite a few times every year and we have generator and some backup stuff, as you know, a big greenhouse growing dome.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.022
So that's right, yeah, yeah.
00:26:31.022 --> 00:26:40.009
So how do you incorporate empathy into your marketing strategies, and can you share an example of where that made a significant impact?
00:26:41.134 --> 00:26:41.234
Yeah.
00:26:41.234 --> 00:27:00.041
So I think the big thing that I would call empathy is having empathy for yourself as the marketer, as the business owner, as the salesperson, that you don't have to be everything to everybody, you don't have to do this certain way.
00:27:00.041 --> 00:27:02.801
You don't have to sell, sell, sell.
00:27:02.801 --> 00:27:16.987
You don't have to be like this Dackass kind of person excuse me right that when we have our own heart and our own empathy for ourselves, well, it's just going to be more natural.
00:27:16.987 --> 00:27:26.916
So when I work with clients for a job and they're like well, I know I'm supposed to like go get Instagram, and I'm like why Talk to me, talk this through.
00:27:26.916 --> 00:27:33.525
Maybe you do, maybe it's a good strategy, maybe it's not for you, let's talk it through.
00:27:33.914 --> 00:27:37.425
Well, everybody says I have to be on Instagram and I'm not on Instagram.
00:27:37.425 --> 00:27:44.307
And then you get all this self-conflict and you're internal and it's like, oh, I don't want to do it.
00:27:44.307 --> 00:27:46.592
No, I don't.
00:27:46.592 --> 00:27:54.618
So I think the empathy starts with us knowing who we are, what we need, what our best marketing strategy is.
00:27:54.618 --> 00:27:57.561
You can be on Instagram or not.
00:27:57.561 --> 00:27:59.101
There's a million ways to market.
00:27:59.101 --> 00:28:01.323
It depends on where your audience hang out.
00:28:01.323 --> 00:28:02.660
What do you like to do?
00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:05.196
How are you going to be able to sustain it.
00:28:05.196 --> 00:28:08.176
All of those We'd start there.
00:28:09.602 --> 00:28:12.410
Wow, so it sounds like that's a great answer.
00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:16.971
I've never, no one's ever spun it that way before, so that was, that was a great insight.
00:28:16.971 --> 00:28:23.769
Thanks for sharing that, and it sounds like every market is different, but do you have a favorite platform, or is it always?
00:28:24.461 --> 00:28:30.394
No, I do, and I'm on Facebook and I have a love hate relationship with Facebook.
00:28:30.394 --> 00:28:44.833
I'm also on Instagram and sort of on TikTok and sort of on LinkedIn and sort of on threads and sort of everywhere, but mostly because I've been on Facebook for so long I know I know it inside.
00:28:44.833 --> 00:28:50.172
Now I don't have to think about it, I just get on and post something.
00:28:50.172 --> 00:29:01.068
But I try to follow my own advice and I know that some of my audience hangs out on Instagram, so I try to do Instagram.
00:29:02.123 --> 00:29:06.597
Okay, what do you think the future of books is?
00:29:06.597 --> 00:29:07.220
Do you think you?
00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:08.103
I don't know.
00:29:08.625 --> 00:29:09.868
I ask everybody else.
00:29:09.868 --> 00:29:13.180
I want to ask you what do you think the future of books is?
00:29:13.180 --> 00:29:16.788
I've been studying this for a long time.
00:29:16.788 --> 00:29:19.556
You know fiction is growing.
00:29:19.556 --> 00:29:21.200
People love fiction.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.705
It's a category that's growing leaps and bounds.
00:29:24.705 --> 00:29:27.270
I don't think AI books.
00:29:27.270 --> 00:29:46.200
I think there's place for AI, but you know, ai books are flooding the market right now and Amazon and Google Books and everybody is like giving so many complaints and we get our books ripped off and we have to follow copyright violations with Amazon and Google and everything all the time.
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.244
That will settle out.
00:29:49.244 --> 00:29:55.634
But the real future of books, you know, I don't know if we can go into a holodeck.
00:30:00.269 --> 00:30:00.530
Yes.
00:30:01.901 --> 00:30:12.844
Right, you know, if you want to read about, I don't know, world War II, which I don't, but that's what popped into my head Do you want to go into a holodeck?
00:30:12.844 --> 00:30:15.832
And maybe that was a really bad example.
00:30:16.722 --> 00:30:18.011
That's a really bad example.
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.050
You want to experience Rome and the Trevi Fountain?
00:30:21.050 --> 00:30:21.994
Are you going?
00:30:22.015 --> 00:30:23.220
to pick up a book about it?
00:30:23.540 --> 00:30:24.522
Are you going to go there?
00:30:24.522 --> 00:30:26.166
Are you going to go into a holodeck?
00:30:26.166 --> 00:30:34.646
You know, I mean I still love reading, Lots of people still love reading, but I wish I knew the real answer and everybody who talked to gives me a different one.
00:30:34.646 --> 00:30:44.701
I mean, I've talked to big publishers and editors at the big five companies and they're like books will never go away, Maybe not.
00:30:44.701 --> 00:30:49.810
Paramount sold Simon and Schuster recently, like this last week, I think.
00:30:52.650 --> 00:31:00.713
Okay, everything's just changing, it seems fast, because has television gone away like cable TV?
00:31:00.713 --> 00:31:02.503
Yeah.
00:31:03.247 --> 00:31:03.688
Forget it.
00:31:03.688 --> 00:31:10.173
Like my dad watches cable TV sometimes and I was visiting and I'm like what, what's the commercial?
00:31:10.173 --> 00:31:10.540
Like what?
00:31:10.540 --> 00:31:12.305
Why are you watching this?
00:31:12.305 --> 00:31:16.541
Yeah, I remember.
00:31:16.541 --> 00:31:20.848
So it was only been six months.
00:31:20.848 --> 00:31:29.721
We really had chat to BT and it's only been four words really been the newest version right, Like April or something that's right.
00:31:30.404 --> 00:31:30.645
Yeah.
00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:33.688
Look how quickly that has changed everything.
00:31:34.300 --> 00:31:34.724
That's right.
00:31:34.724 --> 00:31:46.912
That's right, yeah, because I think even me, I like I watch a lot of Netflix and I think Netflix is becoming old school now I think that might be like phasing out more people are just doing YouTube and different things like that.
00:31:47.621 --> 00:31:52.571
Oh, I have two teenagers in my house still and they're on Reddit and YouTube.
00:31:52.571 --> 00:31:53.560
Yeah, okay.
00:31:53.701 --> 00:31:56.788
Yeah, yeah, and it's funny with me and books.
00:31:56.788 --> 00:32:15.707
I love going on vacation and I'll bring like three books and I will go through all three books, like I just I'm a voracious reader but for some reason when I'm at home I rare like I'll read marketing books and stuff, but I don't really read for pleasure as much, which is but was that your kind of jacket to go?
00:32:17.601 --> 00:32:21.230
No, no, I don't know.
00:32:21.230 --> 00:32:24.220
This is like an internal question I've always had for myself.
00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:28.111
Like I love going on vacation and reading, why don't I just read at home?
00:32:28.111 --> 00:32:42.220
Yeah, because I think reading is more of a commitment and I don't want to tell myself I'm committing to not doing any work, where I can just flick on the TV for just a minute and take a break, and you know, a minute turns into two hours.
00:32:44.409 --> 00:32:46.276
But I commit to that two hours in the front.
00:32:46.276 --> 00:32:47.160
What's that?
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.134
20 years ago, reading wasn't a commitment.
00:32:50.134 --> 00:32:51.220
Reading was just something you did.
00:32:52.223 --> 00:32:54.542
That's right, yeah, yeah.
00:32:54.542 --> 00:32:59.172
So I'm just kind of curious as to where books are going to, where books are going to end up.
00:33:00.701 --> 00:33:01.624
Yeah, I don't know.
00:33:01.624 --> 00:33:02.346
I wish on you.
00:33:02.346 --> 00:33:03.569
I mean, for now they're here.
00:33:04.461 --> 00:33:08.741
Yes, yes, all right, let's see.
00:33:08.741 --> 00:33:09.986
What else can I ask you here?
00:33:09.986 --> 00:33:20.633
Can you share one actionable marketing strategy or tip that our listeners can implement today to start seeing like results today?
00:33:23.483 --> 00:33:40.182
All right, you know, the thing that works for me is to be real personal, and you've been around a while, so this is called a Dean Jackson email for anyone who's been around a while in these circles.
00:33:40.182 --> 00:33:48.479
But you put something in the subject line that says, hey, are you still interested in marketing?
00:33:48.479 --> 00:33:51.916
Or I might say, are you still trying to write your book?
00:33:51.916 --> 00:34:02.041
And I'll write an email that's like two or three sentences and I'll send it to my whole list and I'll get a hundred responses.
00:34:02.041 --> 00:34:03.974
Hey, how did you know?
00:34:03.974 --> 00:34:05.198
I've been thinking about you.
00:34:05.198 --> 00:34:11.117
Wow, it's so nice of you to reach out, michelle, right, and I've sent it to thousands of people, but it sounds so personal.
00:34:11.739 --> 00:34:12.061
Okay.
00:34:12.610 --> 00:34:13.894
And that's how I want it to be.
00:34:13.894 --> 00:34:23.956
I want it to be personal, I want it to be like they feel like I've reached out to them, and then I will answer each one individually, say I am thinking about you, I'm always thinking about all my clients.
00:34:23.956 --> 00:34:26.818
Is it time to talk again?
00:34:26.818 --> 00:34:36.164
Tell me what's going on, right, and that usually results in conversation, which will result in some sales.
00:34:36.164 --> 00:34:39.277
But it's back to being personal.
00:34:39.277 --> 00:34:41.300
Connect with people.
00:34:41.300 --> 00:34:48.161
Sure, to be cheap, chat can write your newsletter, but you don't need it to reach out to people.
00:34:49.731 --> 00:34:51.157
So what if you don't have a list?
00:34:51.157 --> 00:34:52.012
What can you do?
00:34:53.389 --> 00:34:57.177
Do the same thing on social for people that don't have.
00:34:57.177 --> 00:35:08.230
I work with a lot of people who are over 50, right, and a lot of those people don't even really want to do social or don't have social even younger people too.
00:35:08.230 --> 00:35:12.882
I mean now everybody's kind of burned out on it, I think, or a lot of people are getting burned out on it.
00:35:12.882 --> 00:35:17.820
You know, you can go to a library and do a free course.
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:29.835
You can go to a coffee shop and put up a flyer and say, hey, I'm doing a 20-minute presentation about marketing or weight loss, come listen to me.
00:35:29.835 --> 00:35:34.250
You can ask your friend to hold an old-fashioned Tupperware party.
00:35:34.250 --> 00:35:37.250
I mean really, it's connect with people, right.
00:35:37.250 --> 00:35:47.240
Open a farm stand and put your lemonade, sign up and while you're there, talk about how you can also help other people market their lemonade.
00:35:48.570 --> 00:35:49.594
Wow, yeah.
00:35:49.594 --> 00:35:55.440
So actually I think COVID made this worse.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:02.025
But we don't want to have, we're afraid to have that actual, real human connection now.
00:36:02.507 --> 00:36:03.210
Yeah, COVID made it worse.
00:36:03.210 --> 00:36:07.755
We want to have this screen to separate us and the phone.
00:36:08.771 --> 00:36:10.753
So you know, I found it interesting.
00:36:10.753 --> 00:36:15.001
You and I were having a hard time connecting today and your phone number was there.
00:36:15.001 --> 00:36:19.269
You know, if you have problems, here's my phone number and I texted you.
00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:23.976
I'm like why don't I just pick up the phone and call, like, oh, what happened?
00:36:23.976 --> 00:36:25.514
What happened to the?
00:36:25.514 --> 00:36:26.458
It's?
00:36:26.458 --> 00:36:30.875
Like it's almost rude now for some generations, right, why are you calling me?
00:36:30.875 --> 00:36:31.998
Right?
00:36:31.998 --> 00:36:32.960
Why don't you just text?
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:40.862
So I'm never sure anymore whether you're supposed to text or call or zoom or send a telepathic message or email.
00:36:40.862 --> 00:36:44.336
And COVID made all of that worse.
00:36:44.336 --> 00:36:47.336
Like some people are like, don't talk to me.
00:36:47.336 --> 00:36:50.101
There's generational pieces to that.
00:36:50.101 --> 00:36:52.257
There's technology pieces to that.
00:36:52.257 --> 00:36:53.932
Yeah.
00:36:55.269 --> 00:36:57.117
So I live in rural Canada.
00:36:57.117 --> 00:37:01.221
I'm in Quebec, which is the French province, but I live in an Irish community.
00:37:01.221 --> 00:37:06.192
I was Irish settled and all of my it's really cool One of my neighbors.
00:37:06.192 --> 00:37:11.222
The reason he has his property is because the queen deeded it to him.
00:37:11.222 --> 00:37:16.101
So the queen said if you clear this land and farm it, I'll give it to you.
00:37:16.101 --> 00:37:19.336
Like that's how most of the families up here.
00:37:19.336 --> 00:37:21.360
They're still here, right?
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.003
Wow?
00:37:22.003 --> 00:37:37.269
And because of the generational thing like it's gone three generations but now the fourth generation doesn't want to farm anymore and plus, farming doesn't really work like that anymore, like it's all big cattle operations, right?
00:37:37.690 --> 00:37:39.753
It's really hard to the oh my gosh.
00:37:39.795 --> 00:37:44.583
Like I talked to my neighbors and they they talked about how much a steak costs in the store now.
00:37:44.583 --> 00:37:49.269
But they're like we're still getting the same price for our beef that we were getting 20 years ago.
00:37:49.791 --> 00:37:51.795
Like we're not selling our cows anymore.
00:37:51.795 --> 00:37:56.090
But you know the price of a hamburger, the price of steak has got up 10 fold, anyway.
00:37:56.090 --> 00:38:02.884
So most of my neighbors are in their 70s and 80s and we don't talk on the phone.
00:38:02.884 --> 00:38:05.755
If we need something, we go, we drive.
00:38:05.755 --> 00:38:09.742
We have to drive because, like my neighbors are, all we're a mile away from each other.
00:38:09.742 --> 00:38:20.644
But if I need help from my neighbor, I drive to his house and I knock on his door and I sit there and I have a coffee or a beer with him for 20, 30, 40 minutes before I can tell him why I'm there.
00:38:20.644 --> 00:38:32.269
Like that's, that's how we work, like it's pretty cool we're, we're way old school, yeah, cause, yeah, the phone is just way too modern and we don't like to use it.
00:38:32.269 --> 00:38:36.920
My one neighbor asked me this is like going back five or six years if I'm on that internet.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:52.336
Yeah, and and here's the thing when your well goes down and your internet goes down and you're don't have power because the truth is taking down your power lines, you guys are all going to still function.
00:38:52.998 --> 00:38:53.179
Yeah.
00:38:53.471 --> 00:38:57.269
You're going to figure out how to make it and how to help each other and come together in community.
00:38:57.269 --> 00:39:00.096
And I'm in the similar community.
00:39:00.096 --> 00:39:09.222
I'm not off group quite like that, but I am in the mountains and we all know trees come down and it's my neighbor out there with a chainsaw player in the tree.
00:39:09.222 --> 00:39:25.460
It's not any anybody from any state or government place, right, and I think there's some resilience there that we have lost that comes from connecting with our community that we all need.
00:39:25.460 --> 00:39:37.219
That in some instances, covid made it stronger for some people and and disconnected it for some people, right, right, and I do think we have to.
00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:39.932
I love the internet.
00:39:39.932 --> 00:39:57.284
I make my living off Facebook more or less, right, so I connect with my people, and I also understand that we have to come in community because we don't know what's coming tomorrow, and that's the way we're all going to be able to continue and have resilient lives.
00:39:59.108 --> 00:40:11.041
Yeah, because it's just funny, because where I live now I know all of my neighbors in a five mile radius and not consider them friends in a five mile radius, but, like in in in university I lived in an apartment building.
00:40:11.041 --> 00:40:13.059
I didn't know who my neighbor across the hall was.
00:40:13.059 --> 00:40:18.233
Right, no idea, no, their name and what do you prefer?
00:40:18.233 --> 00:40:21.876
It's much better having that human connection.
00:40:21.876 --> 00:40:24.197
Like I say, we don't, we don't take advantage of one another.
00:40:24.197 --> 00:40:28.721
But like I say, I know, like this is a terrible, horrible, horrible story.
00:40:28.721 --> 00:40:32.550
But I had an old dog, 18 year old dog, and I was.
00:40:32.550 --> 00:40:41.161
I went into the woods and I came out and my dog was on the ground, he had had a stroke and we live in the middle of nowhere and a vets so far away.
00:40:41.952 --> 00:40:44.766
And so you know, I went to my neighbor and I'm like my dog had a stroke.
00:40:44.766 --> 00:40:45.269
He's not dead.
00:40:45.269 --> 00:40:46.914
Can you help me?
00:40:46.914 --> 00:40:52.081
Right, and that's a pretty significant thing to ask somebody to help you with.
00:40:52.081 --> 00:40:52.954
And he's like.
00:40:52.954 --> 00:40:55.250
You know, I got him like here you go, you go away.
00:40:55.250 --> 00:40:57.998
When you come back we'll have a little bit of take care.
00:40:57.998 --> 00:41:02.820
Yeah, and I say that's the type of support that we can provide each other in this situation.
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:10.914
So is there any way that we can start to foster that support with, with strangers who aren't familiar with that degree of connection?
00:41:14.139 --> 00:41:16.324
Oh, you know I'm not an expert in this.
00:41:16.324 --> 00:41:29.289
Ask me something about book marketing In terms of, you know, when you build your business though, I'll bring it, I'll kind of bring it back around.
00:41:29.289 --> 00:41:36.226
I think having that human connection is really what we're talking about.
00:41:36.226 --> 00:42:06.547
If you can Not be scared to pick up the phone or text or email, or walk down to the local post office and Actually talk to the person across the counter a little bit, you're going to do better in business and in life, and I think that's really the message that and that's not always easy and in this Um level of anxiety on the planet, is not always easy, so that's right.
00:42:06.547 --> 00:42:12.681
So, if you want to help yourself and grow a little bit and understand reality, human connection.
00:42:14.835 --> 00:42:15.135
Perfect.
00:42:15.135 --> 00:42:16.237
Let's end on that.
00:42:16.237 --> 00:42:20.894
If any of my listeners Good how?
00:42:20.894 --> 00:42:23.117
How do my listeners reach out to you for your support?
00:42:23.117 --> 00:42:23.998
What can you do for them?
00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:27.184
Yeah, michelle coachescom is my website.
00:42:27.184 --> 00:42:35.219
Michelle coachescom, michelle with 2 else.
00:42:36.302 --> 00:42:38.586
So who can you help the most right now?
00:42:40.016 --> 00:42:48.724
Um, somebody who has a book inside of them and knows it's part of their message and they want to get their message out into the world.
00:42:48.724 --> 00:43:01.275
Whatever that is Weight loss, holistic health it's usually nonfiction, right, trauma related anything and they want to use their book and more to get their message out.
00:43:01.275 --> 00:43:02.137
That's what I do.
00:43:02.137 --> 00:43:05.117
Big umbrella, how does your book fit?
00:43:05.117 --> 00:43:13.344
And be a Ted talk, maybe a podcast, maybe getting on podcasts Right, let's figure out how to get your message out and where does the book fit in that?
00:43:14.534 --> 00:43:21.088
Perfect, and I'll put all your links in the show notes so people can find it nice and easy and reach out to you.
00:43:21.835 --> 00:43:23.119
All right, this is a blast.
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:24.182
I can't wait to share it.
00:43:24.954 --> 00:43:25.797
All right, thanks, michelle.
00:43:25.797 --> 00:43:27.936
I'm so happy you're on the show, yeah.
00:43:28.376 --> 00:43:29.340
I'm glad we connected.
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:30.563
Have fun up there in Canada.
00:43:30.563 --> 00:43:31.364
I want to come visit.
00:43:31.364 --> 00:43:32.027
Sounds great.
00:43:33.514 --> 00:43:47.911
This year's been bad for mosquitoes, but that's why I miss about the mountains of Colorado, the lack of mosquitoes, but we have less cougars here, so Right, so there is that All right?
00:43:47.952 --> 00:43:57.527
Thanks, michelle, thanks, bye, bye, and that is a wrap for this episode of because business is personal.
00:43:57.527 --> 00:44:02.108
Thanks for joining us and don't forget to take advantage of my two special offers.
00:44:02.108 --> 00:44:06.141
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00:44:06.141 --> 00:44:07.043
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00:44:07.043 --> 00:44:14.528
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00:44:14.528 --> 00:44:23.045
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00:44:23.045 --> 00:44:32.172
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00:44:32.172 --> 00:44:41.641
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00:44:41.641 --> 00:44:47.317
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00:44:47.317 --> 00:44:48.557
Until next time.
00:44:48.557 --> 00:44:49.358
See you then.