352: Navigating Childhood & Adolescent Anxiety, with Dr. Vanessa Lapointe

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Don't think of them ever, as being manipulative, as trying
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to kind of get out of things or whatever. Instead,
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look upon them as kids who are doing the very
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best that they can to be adaptive. That's the word,
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not manipulative, adaptive. And when we can understand children through
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those kinds of eyes, then we're actually just much more
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open to hearing and seeing what might be actually up
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for them.
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Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
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means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
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Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
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this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
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to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
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if you want more support, join our free community at
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hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back to Beautifully
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Complex everyone. I am so happy to have all of
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the caring adults in the world, not all of them,
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but many caring adults in the world here with us listening.
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I have doctor Vanessa La Point with me, Doctor v
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to talk about anxiety, and we're going to have a
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conversation about anxiety that is probably going to be different
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than other conversations about anxiety you've heard, and I'm really
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excited to unpack that. So, doctor V, will you start
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by letting everybody know who you are and what you do.
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Yeah.
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So I am a mom first and foremost to two
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growing young men now who are almost nineteen and twenty
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two years of age.
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I practiced as a psychologist.
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For more than twenty years before leaving that profession a
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few years ago to launch in international parenting support platform,
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and so I really have been for about twenty five
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years now walking alongside kids and parents and famis families
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and just really seeking to champion them to live their
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best lives.
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I love that.
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Tell us your perspective on anxiety and how it might
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be different from the more traditional model.
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Yeah.
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So, you know, it's interesting because there's a lot of
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talk about anxiety these days.
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I think that that's a reality for.
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A lot of people, and with that there becomes a
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lot of chetter about, you know, what you're supposed to
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do if somebody's anxious. I was trained in a school
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of thought that I shall refer to as behaviorism and
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came into a school of thought that I shall refer
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to as developmentalism. Over the arc of my career, not
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just professionally but also personally, when my youngest son was
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impected by anxiety and I needed to kind of figure out, okay,
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like what are we going to do and what feels
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aligned for me? In this where I have landed is
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this idea that where we often begin with anxiety treatment
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is not where we should be beginning. We usually begin with,
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you know, focusing on what's happening inside the child or
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inside the parent that's this feeling of anxiety, and then
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we get busy with trying to eradicate that feeling. My
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understanding of anxiety is that we don't start there. In fact,
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we have to zoom the lens way out and really
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take some time to take stock of what's happening around
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the child and consider very deeply whether or not that
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environment is working for them. And in the vast majority
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of cases, I would suggest that the people who are
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feeling anxious these days should be feeling anxious because they
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are living a life in an environment that is entirely
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incongruent with what it is that they need as humans,
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and so of course they're anxious. We don't treat that
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by trying to anaesthetize those thought. We treat that by
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sorting the environment so that it's much more aligned with
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what the person needs.
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Yeah, and we do push kids into environments, you know,
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we have these systems like squall and we put them
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in the environment and we say, this is it, this
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is what you have to do. You're going to have
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to figure it out. Right. So I can hear a
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lot of parents asking already what do we do about
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the environments where we don't have as much influence over
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what's going on there.
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You know, it's a great question and the reality of
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the messy middle that defines our existence right where we're
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always trying to navigate these things that we can't necessarily control.
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And I think it comes to two things.
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One is to really get fierce in how you are
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approaching the adjustment of the environment. And so it's not
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you know, one conversation with a teacher. In my son's case,
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he had developed profaned school based anxiety. It was many,
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many conversations with the teacher, with the school counselor with
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the school administrator, trying to sort of bring a cohesive
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team together in order to really understand what his needs were.
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And I ultimately made the I suppose radical decision to
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actually remove my son from that environment because it was
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so problematic for him.
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His older brother, no.
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Issues, was sailing through that, but my little guy was
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not coping, and so I actually had to get fierce
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enough that I shifted that environment and I moved him
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into a school that was maybe more aligned with the
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kinds of emotional needs that he had and also the
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learning needs that he had. So I think the first
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thing is like, we really do need to get kind
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of fierce about what it is that we are able
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to do. We often cut ourselves off at the knees
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and think, hm, I don't have any power in this,
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when really you do have power. So get big, get fierce,
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get radical about that environment peace, and see what happens.
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The other thing that.
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I have come to deeply understand that may be helpful
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is that there's something we can do as parents that
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activates this invisible string between ourselves and our children, so
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that when they are away from us having to contend
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with these challenging kinds of situations, they feel really strongly
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that they have this connection back to us, and even
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though we're not there with them, the experience of the
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relationship provides them this invisible shield that travels with them
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into whatever environments they might be in.
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Can you tell us what that looks like in real
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life and practice? Can you give us an example.
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Yeah, so I'll use an example of when my son
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was struggling and I would send him off to school
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every day for six or seven hours away from me,
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where he had to cross his t's and dodge his
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eyes and mind his p's and q's and sit crisscross
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apple sauce, and it was challenging for him. It turned
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out he had an undiagnosed learning disability and a clinical
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hearing loss, and all the while was getting reprimanded, you know,
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for not paying attention and not doing a good enough
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job and not learning fast enough and so what he needed.
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Because I couldn't be there all day long, I was
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still you know, first off, I was still kind of
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cracking the code figuring out what was working and not working.
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And secondly, the reality for our family was that I
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needed to be employed, so I was working outside the
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home during the day. But I figured out how to
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send myself to school with my son so that he
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would feel my presence. He was young at the time,
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so six.
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Going on seven.
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We visited his school playground on the weekends, and we
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left invisible stashes of kisses underneath the slide at the
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point where you stand in line waiting to get on
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the monkey bars. So as he wandered around his school
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playground during the week he knew the places that we had,
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you know, created this magic little bubble where he could go.
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And get a little bit of a mama amazing. Yes,
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so sweet.
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I got very concrete with him. Again, no dawnstream kickbacks
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from this company. But I've kept this all these years
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because I bought this little Komochi it's called and the
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Mama Heart went to school with my son, and there's
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a little hook. So we hooked it inside his backpacking
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and see it's all dirty and old, and again it
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was filled up with magic mama up. And so if
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you ever needed just a little top up because the
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day at school was getting hard, he would just stick
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his hand in his backpack and squeeze that. And he
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knew that I had the little kid part of it
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with me at work or with me on the road
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if it happened that I was traveling. So I did
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those things concretely as well. As you know, creating these
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stories around all of that. The other piece, though, was
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to really instill in my son the values of how
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this all flows. So first and foremost, the thing that
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matters more than anything else is what I think of you.
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And what I think of you is you are magic.
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I think the sunrises and sets on you. I think
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you are like, you know, the essence of a star
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wrapped up inside a human. And so I don't care
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what missus so and so has to say or what
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mister so and so has to say, because this is
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what the truth is, and so we will abide by
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that truth in how it is that we live our lives.
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And then make sure that I'm collecting all of his
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tears around his sorrow that these other folks weren't showing
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up the same way. So there's something about that shield
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when you really get that your parent has been straight
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with you about the value that you carry as a human,
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not because you know how to read, or not because
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you're really good at listening, but simply because you breathe
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that you are valued and you are worthy. And I
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can shield you by instilling in you that ultimate belief
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that that's how I see things and I will put
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my money where my mouth is. I will show up
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and I will make sure that I've got you back
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in the situations where we really need to be doing that.
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I wish I had heard some of those ideas when
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my kid was little. The little playground, oh man I
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did when he was in elementary school also and having
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a really hard time. I got these little smooth metal
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coins that you could get engraved, and he could take
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it in his probably like one set I'll see you
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soon and Mama loves you and stuff like that, and
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he would take him in his pocket and he could
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rub on him and be reminded that, like this part
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will end and you will be back with me again.
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They were easily lost, but it helped. You know, we
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had school avoidance and refusal from fourth grade to graduation,
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and it's so tough, and they do, I think, need
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the safety that we can provide in those environments when
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they're not with us, and those are such great ideas
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to do that. How do parents kind of decode or
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crack the code as you called it, on what might
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actually be helpful? What do they need? What is it
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maybe in the environment that's not working for them, What
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do they need from us from other people, Like, how
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do we get started down that path of figuring that out?
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Yeah, you know, it'll be different, of course for every family,
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depending on the unique needs that are coming forth and
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the temperament and personality and everything of those involved. But
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I think, you know, you could apply a little bit
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of a formula to it, a soul based kind of formula.
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The first would be to get very relationship focused. That's
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essentially what we were just speaking about, like how do
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you be connected whilst apart, because we know as a
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social species that experience of connection is life sustaining and
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so you know, the opposite of anxiety, one could say,
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is connection. And so to really get focused on those
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relational pieces to kind of get that sort of doubt.
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The other thing would.
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Be, you know, I sometimes say that you have to
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be willing to kind of like like just sniff around
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things for a while.
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Well, and to be fair, I.
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Was a trained child psychologist. I have a specialization in
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how learning comes on board for kids and how reading
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skills develop and writing skills develop, and maths skills develop.
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And there was my own kid with dyslexia, and I
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hadn't seen it like I didn't get it. There was
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my own kid. The first thing I say to every
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parent who ever comes to be worried about their child's learning,
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when was the last time you had their vision checked?
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And one was the last time you had their ears checked?
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So we can make sure that the systems are I
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missed it. I missed it entirely.
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He couldn't hear.
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And so really be gracious with yourselves as parents whilst
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you're in the sniffing around stages, because it's tricky when
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you're embedded in the situation to always see it with
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the kind of clarity that an outside person might. And
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so spend some time with that. Really listen to your children.
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Don't think of them ever as being manipulative, as trying
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to kind of get out of things or whatever. Instead,
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look upon them as kids who are doing the very
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best that they can to be adaptive, that's the word,
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not manipulative, adaptive to the situations and circumstances that they
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find themselves within. And when we can understand children through
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those kinds of eyes, then we're actually just much more
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open to hearing and seeing what might be actually up
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for them, So that you then know, go get your
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kid a learning assessment, or go get your kid fitted
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with a hearing aid, you know, like you know then
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to take those things on because you've really sort of
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stayed open to it and you haven't assumed through this,
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you know, childism kind of view that the kid is
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trying to work it so they can get out of school,
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but you've really been open to hearing about what might
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be possibly up underneath it all. So be relationally focused
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and stay open while you do the sniff around, all
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the while being very gracious with yourselves, because it's a
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lot to figure out.
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Sometimes it's a lot to figure out, and we don't know.
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Nobody gives us a parenting manual in the first place,
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but definitely not one that says there might be some
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differences here and this is how you figure it out,
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or these are the people you might look into helping you,
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or any of that. We get nothing, and so it
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can be so hard to figure out what to do
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and to even know that there's this whole range of
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things that maybe could be a possibility. I mean, so
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many parents don't even know about dyslexia or dysgraphia or
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what anxiety sometimes looks like when it doesn't look anxious,
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and I'm so grateful that you said, don't view it
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as manipulation. This is something I hear in coaching all
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the time. I have booked to call with you because
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my kid is so manipulative and blah blah blah. Right,
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And I'm like, Okay, well, let's back out from that,
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because I'm pretty sure that's not really. It feels that
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way though as a parent, like it feels that way,
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but it's I think guided by this need for safety
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and protection, right, and that's where that's coming from. So
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I'm just so so happy that you said it so
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concretely for everyone to hear.
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Hi.
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I'm Noriine Russell, founder of Russell Coaching for Students. If
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you're the parent of a bright student who just isn't
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reaching their potential at school, you're not alone. Many students
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00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:33.720
with ADHD, autism, anxiety and learning differences struggle not because
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00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.840
they aren't capable, but because they haven't yet learned skills
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like organization, time management, and studying. The families we work
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00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:45.399
with often come to us after they've tried tutoring, school supports,
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and other resources, but their child still isn't successful. At
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Russell Coaching, we work one on one with students to
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00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:57.679
build executive functioning and academic skills and strengthen motivation so
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students can succeed academically and be more confident. When students
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learn how to plan, stay focused, and advocate for themselves,
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everything starts to change, not just grades, but their self
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esteem and their relationship with you, their parents. If you
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00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.679
know your child is capable of more, but motivation or
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00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.080
bad habits are a struggle, you don't have to solve
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00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:23.200
this alone. We'd love to help. Visit russelloaching dot com
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to schedule complimentary call with me and find the right
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program for your student and mention the code Penny to
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receive one hundred dollars off your intake and ten percent
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off your first three months of coaching. Welcome to Russell Coaching.
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Can we talk a little bit then about that's one
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way anxiety could show up as a manipulation. What are
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other ways that anxiety might show up? What might it
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look like on the outside when it doesn't look like anxiety?
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And that's the tricky shifty thing about anxiety, particularly in children,
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is that it doesn't often show up in ways that
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have you full of like heart swells, for your child.
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It often shows up in ways that you're like a wow,
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so I gave you life and this is what you
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give me back. They can be a little bit unlikable
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to be frank when they're in the throes of anxiety.
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And so irritability is a big one for kids, in
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for adults, but for kids. Because they're still developing that
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internal capacity to manage big feelings and regulate around their
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own emotions, that irritability can be extra and so you
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can watch for that.
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You can also see you like really heated refusal.
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So you mentioned school refusal a little bit earlier, and
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I think a lot of times people you know, think
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about that and they see their kid with puppy dog
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eyes pleading that I don't have to go to school.
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But a lot of times that isn't puppy dog eyes.
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It's rage and it's lashing, and it's big tantrums and
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it's melting down, and it's your kid like really at
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you instead of at the situation or the environment around them.
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And so it can be like a very sort of
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labored experience relationally speaking, to stay in your lane as
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a parent and not take any of what your kid
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is putting out there personally, because it's not personal, it's anxiety,
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and that's the only way they know how to manage
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it is for it to leak out these crusty, kind
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of difficult.
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Challenging ways.
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We also see a lot of sleep disturbances and anxiety.
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In fact, all of the anxiety diagnoses in the DSM,
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if we're going to heed the DSM, which might be
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another point of discussion, they all have buried in them
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this idea that sleep gets disrupted, either sleep onset or
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the continuation of sleep where it becomes interrupted sleep. And
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so you know, if you have a kid who's super
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difficult to rouse in the morning because they've had this
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disturbed sleep, they might not even know that it is
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disturbed sleep because it might be so the norm for them.
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So you can be watching for sleep disturbances when things
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have gotten very tricky. The younger the child, the more
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likely it is to go.
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Into the body.
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So you can see withholding of bowel movements, urinary overflow
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when they actually are toilet trained, and that would be
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unusual for them. So those kinds of body based things,
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interesting things that pop up with food where they will
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eat you know, only six things and nothing else, because
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it's part of how they control their environment and control
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the world around them. You know, it's a lot of
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these things that you might not classically see as anxiety,
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but that that's how it kind of tends to present,
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particularly in the developing child. M H.
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I think we really always have to ask the question
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when there's challenging behavior, could anxiety be fueling it? Because
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I think so often the answer is yes, especially lately,
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you know, post COVID for kids, I think there's so
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much more. As you were saying, like it is kind
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of normal to be anxious about what's going on in
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the world and how difficult things have been as of late.
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You mentioned the word control, and that connected me straight
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back to manipulation. But I see often kids who have
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anxiety really trying to control either others around them, or
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the situation, or their participation or not, like the school avoidance.
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How else might that need for control show up? And
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do we honor that need? Do we give them some
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of that control? Is that a healthy thing to do? Maybe?
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I mean that control can show up in so many
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interesting ways. It can show up in ritualistic kinds of behaviors.
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You know, I'm thinking right now of client years and
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years ago, they had a home invasion, and there was,
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you know, a very ritualistic behavior that developed on the
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back end of that of a three hour long lock
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checking routine that needed to happen every single night, or
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this child could not find any space inside of her
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soul to actually rest and go to sleep. So, you know,
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it can come out in ritualistic behaviors. We can also
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see control showing up in you know, just curious little
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things like how the stuffies get lined up every night,
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or it can present in sensory ways, and so all
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of the sudden, I can only wear really soft clothes,
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I can't wear anything that taxes my body in any
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kind of way. So I want to control that. Controlling food.
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Turns out that eating is like we cannot make somebody
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eat ultimately, because even if they swallow a down, they
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can throw it back up. And so eating becomes this
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kind of final frontier in terms of a way that
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a child would invoke control on the environment around them.
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Kids who show up with what I often refer to
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as hulk energy, where they are actually the boss of you,
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and you might not even realize that it's happened, but
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they're the ones kind of commanding and demanding, and they're
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large and they're in charge, and they're doing that in
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an effort to try and control everything around them. You
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do not want to just let that run its course.
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You do want to pick up the message that's coming
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forward in that. And one of the things that I
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think about like, if you ever say to your partner, babe,
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I don't I don't feel very connected to you. You
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need to tell me that you love me more, and
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then your partner turns around and they're like, I love
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you and you're like, okay, but you just said that
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because I told you. Like, it doesn't it doesn't land
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in your soul. It feels like conjured, kind of like
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you know, it's a forced kind of thing. And it's
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the same for kids. If they're like, listen, I'm really
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freaking out over here.
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And they're trying to let you know, and they're you're.
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Like, yeah, yea, yeah, okay, I'm gonna take care of that. Okay,
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Well it falls a little flat because they had to
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tell you you didn't into it it, and so it
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becomes this tricky thing of trying to be like, oh,
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that's what they're telling me, and then get a step
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ahead of it, get a step ahead of it, so
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that your child experiences you as the one who has
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moved in so capably to control that environment. That honors
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the hierarchical ordering of the parent child relationship. And there
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is an ordering to that right, not in a yucky way,
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but in a really gorgeous, a really supportive, a really
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caring way that allows the child to be at rest
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during their emotional development, so they can just redirect their
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energy towards growing and going, not having to control everything
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around them. We want to be the ones that do
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that for them. So in the case of the lack
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checking routine, we sure didn't allow that child to carry
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on with the three hour longlock checking routine. But step
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one was actually not to get rid of the lock
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checking routine. Step one was to put the parent in
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charge of the lock checking routine so that the child
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was like, Okay, you get it, you understand me, and
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I can just rest into your care. And now you're
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back in the lead position. And so now the child
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is going to be orienting to you. And so when
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you start to then eventually, not immediately, but eventually you
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start to curtail that luck checking and routine a little bit.
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They're already at rest, they're already leaning into your capable provision,
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so they'll be far less likely to be, you know,
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panicked about the fact that you're adjusting the control and
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far more able to just take your lead and kind
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of come through things. And so we don't want to
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shut down the control. And it can show up in
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a lot of interesting ways.
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Yeah, for sure, I have social anxiety, and it was
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a real struggle for me, like in my teen and
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young adult years, and I would go on trips like
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these teen trips, and I wouldn't eat the whole time.
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I was like, I can't eat in front of people,
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they might judge me. I can't do And that was
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my way of trying. And these were like friends, and yeah,
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I was deep in it deepened the social anxiety, and
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nobody knew right, like we're talking about a long time ago.
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But yeah, that control can show up in so many
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really sort of wild ways that we wouldn't always recognize.
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So I appreciate the discussion around that. I think it'll
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be helpful for parents. Can we talk a little bit
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before we close about the parent role in the child
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or adolescence anxiety? And I'm thinking, like, how much do
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we inadvertently add to it sometimes? How can we show
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up to be more helpful in anxious moments that sort
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of thing.
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You know, I'm going to give all the parents in
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the Land of Free pass right about now, because I
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actually think it's people like me who have created, in
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a lot of instances, the anxiety that our children, and
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to be fair, a lot of grown ups are are
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dealing with these days.
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Because when we approach.
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Parenting through the lens of managing behavior and getting it
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under control and having our children, you know, present all
477
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shiny and polished, we will end up squashing spirit. You know,
478
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we will end up squashing that sort of essence of
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what makes us human to get a child, to essentially
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erase their developmental needs and supplant them with our need
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for them to show up a certain kind of way.
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And because we are a social species, when we are
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interrupting the relationship that we are naturally meant to have
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with our children by imposing those kinds of conditions on
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our children, that's going to make them anxious for the
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same reasons.
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You know that.
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Somebody who's excommunicated from whatever society they belong to would
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become anxious because we are a social species. We are
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meant to exist in contact, in closeness, and in connection,
491
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.680
and if we don't exist in those conditions, it's going
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to freak us out.
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Because we're going to get dead.
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I mean, if you think it's storically how we've always lived,
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you've got to have the tribe, and your vibe is
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your tribe, and they also keep you alive.
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Right, if you don't have a tribe, you're not gonna
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do very well out there. And so I think really.
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Honoring that that's a core piece that we show up with.
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It's the essence of who we are as humans. And
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so to really get connected back to their relationship as
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a way of understanding how we navigate.
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And the other thing that.
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00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.799
I would offer to parents in their relationship with children
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00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:34.240
around this whole piece of anxiety is that think about
506
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.279
it like, turn it around, so instead of we're diagnosing
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00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.400
the child with anxiety, think in your mind that it's
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00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.319
we're diagnosing the environment. So so we're throwing away the
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00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:47.519
diagnostic labels for children, not because they don't get to
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00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:50.160
have them, but because we're going to use that as
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00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:53.440
a mechanism for understanding what our next moves might be,
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00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:58.000
and if we were to diagnose the environment instead, how
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00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.279
would we shift things, what kind of new eyes would
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00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:03.640
we bring to the scenario, and how much more at
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00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.680
rest would that put our children.
516
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I love that idea.
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We talk so much about what needs to shift in
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the environment, what needs to shift in communication and relationships
519
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.559
and all these things for our nerdivergent kids, and that
520
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.000
just sort of makes it a lot easier to kind
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00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.400
of think about it that way. I'm going to diagnose
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00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.799
the environment, what's wrong here, what's out of whack here
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00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.480
for this kid? And that's what's really helpful. Yeah, tell
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00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:36.240
everybody where they can find you online and learn more
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00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:39.720
from you. I think you have an anxiety course as
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00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:40.799
well that you offer.
527
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.920
Yeah, so, doctor Vanesslo Point d are Vanesla point with
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00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.440
an E on the end. Dot com is my website,
529
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:50.279
and I do have an anxiety course where it's a
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00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:53.200
multimodular course that you go through and you get to
531
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.000
sort of sync into some of the principles that you
532
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:57.359
and I have spoken about today.
533
00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:58.880
I'm also very.
534
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.920
Active on social media, and if you are trying to
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00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:05.799
cultivate a feed that tops you up rather than taps
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00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:09.319
you out. I try to put out video content and
537
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:12.119
other quints of things on a pretty regular basis, just
538
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.559
so parents get that experience of being seen and heard
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00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:17.960
and maybe get an idea or two that might be
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00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:20.319
helpful as far as how they see their children and
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00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.720
the ways that they're stepping in around all of that.
542
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.279
I also have a membership community where I do monthly
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00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:28.480
q and as and you get a weekly video message
544
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.960
from me, as well as the program that I have
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00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.599
called the Parent Transformation Journey, which is where I work
546
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.000
one on one with parents and we do intakes twice
547
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.240
a year for that program.
548
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.359
Amazing, such good work. I appreciate you so much and
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00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:46.359
sharing some of your time and your wisdom here. I
550
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:50.680
know that the listeners are really going to take away
551
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.880
something valuable from this conversation, and that's going to help
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00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.839
them and their kids because it's about all of us, right,
553
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.319
We all matter. So I will link everything out you
554
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:04.160
just described. All of doctor V's website social media will
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00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.599
be linked in the show notes at PARENTINGADHD and autism
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00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:10.599
dot com. Thanks for listening everyone, I will see you
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00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:16.759
next time. Take good care, I see you. You're doing
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00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.720
hard and meaningful work. And you don't have to do
559
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:23.200
it alone. If you found this episode helpful, share it
560
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:25.799
with someone who needs it and leave a quick review
561
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:29.480
so others can find this support too. When you're ready
562
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.640
for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is here with
563
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.799
the tools, coaching, and community to help you raise a
564
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:41.920
more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at regulated kids
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00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:46.960
dot com.