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The new album, Koinomatic, comes out on June 5th via ATR Records, the band Deertik, Providence's Own, John Macaulay, and Ian O'Neill.
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Welcome back to the show.
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Happy to be here.
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Coin nomadic for Rhode Islanders, that's uh definitely a familiar term for anyone who's outside here.
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Why is what does it mean, I guess, in terms of, you know, for anybody who doesn't know Rhode Island mafia lore on a surface level.
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I mean, you know, the the record is kind of a uh well, if yeah, if you don't know what Coinematic is, it was the uh the headquarters of the New England Mafia for a time.
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Um they rented out cigarette vending machines and stuff like that.
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Um and you know, you'd see the boss Raymond Petrocross sitting out there uh out in front.
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People say, Oh, the neighborhood was was safer with Raymond here and all that stuff.
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Which I don't know, I didn't live there at the time.
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I can't speak on that.
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But um yeah, it was the old mob headquarters.
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Um and I guess I I kind of envisioned that for the the cover of the record and the title um long before the songs were written, but I I knew that I wanted the record to kind of be about um you know, I mean, I don't know if you know that Tommy Kane song, Places That Are Gone, you know?
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100%, yeah.
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The record the record to me is kind of about places that are gone and people that are gone, and I don't know.
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It seemed like uh it seemed like the right moment in our career in my life to kind of look back and take stock of everything and make a record about it, make a very Rhode Island-centric record about it.
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Yeah.
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It also seems like a really essential moment right now in just reality to take a look at what's missing and and also look towards shared roots.
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And that's something that Rhode Islanders, whether it's about the fact that maybe At Wills Avenue was viewed as safer during the patriarchal crime family era or not, um, there's a shared lineage there.
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But more broadly speaking, there's a lot of themes of working class, there's a lot of themes of I don't know, the people, if you will.
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It feels like you're speaking of not only to, but about that on these on this crop of songs for the most part.
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Is that sort of what you felt in terms of looking back and reflecting on what might be missing, like actually connecting that to real stories?
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Sure, yeah.
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And I don't I don't know just because something's missing doesn't mean it needs to you know come back.
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But uh but um yeah, suppose I just kind of I I took a lot of experiences growing up here and and kind of made up characters that were kind of I mean they're kind of like amalgamations of of people, family members, you know, neighborhood people are more colorful uh criminal element that used to used to be around there was uh you know, their presence was undeniable.
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Um yeah, no, no.
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I mean I don't know, the f I showed my sisters the record a couple months ago and they both asked me independently uh is Dog Ears about Papa Billy?
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So which you know he was one of the uh inspirations to uh the central character in in Dog Ears for sure.
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So, you know, they were able to pick up on that, and I thought, you know, I don't know, maybe uh maybe I did a good job.
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I guess that's yeah.
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All it's all I would add up to the listener to decide.
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And I guess I guess what I would add talking about working people is I think that all of us kind of grew up around those types of people and were our you know, fathers and uncles and stuff were those types of people.
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So it kind of seems only natural that if you reach back to the, you know, the um the memories of these people from at least for me when I think about the record, I think about the types of people that my parents knew in like the early 90s in New England.
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I don't know.
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It's like a weird, it's like a sense memory for me of like whenever I listen to specifically John's songs on the record, I can I can see and I can smell the very specific cologne of these types of men at the Irish Social Club growing up.
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And those those types of working class people are just kind of integrated into our childhoods, I think.
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So it's really natural to write about that when you're looking back and not about, you know, I don't know, you know, more white-collar stuff, I guess.
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Right.
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There's enough white-collar music out there for everybody at this point.
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Yeah, totally agree on that.
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Um what do you see record is gonna be all about tax loopholes?
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Exactly.
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What are you seeing right now from the standpoint of a band in 2026?
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What does it look like to you in terms of of a path forward, releasing music?
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It's tough.
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Yeah.
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We're lucky to be established, you know.
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I don't know.
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I I don't even know how you get started nowadays.
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It seems so different from you know, even 20 years ago when when when we started, I mean, it was still kind of like you know, make a demo tape and play anywhere and you know, cram the drum set into a car and drive around and do your thing.
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Uh you know, and I guess you do that all uh I mean you you you do that all differently now, I guess.
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So and and I'm not very uh I don't really get anything out of social media.
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Yeah, what I would say too is that it's the way it's changed is I was like watching this is kind of off topic, but I was watching that show Euphoria last night, where it's kind of about TikTok culture and OnlyFans culture and stuff like that, and like the absolute desire to be perceived on the internet and to be famous on the internet, and I was just like looking at the parallels of how the music industry has changed, and I was thinking about how it would it's like it's become such a huge part of like our day-to-day energy to spend time like finding new ways to promote your music, and because that's all we want is for people like people to hear it, and it's not that I think the biggest challenge people have now, especially if you're just starting out, is that there's people who control these algorithms that decide who hears what.
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It's not just like the way they used to be, and not to sound like a crank, but like the way it used to be, was that like if you put in the footwork enough, you would get your music in front of more and more ears.
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And then that's like a really linear and understandable way to like if I work and I'm decent enough, then I can have some measure of success in doing what I love to do.
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And because there's these tech companies that kind of took over most parts of media and music and movies and everything like that, they kind of decide what that actually is.
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And that's a really, I think even for big people who are like managing bands and stuff like that, everybody's like overcoming new obstacles every single year.
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Right.
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Which is not complaining.
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Yeah, I mean, and but then there's also, you know, in order to beat the there are other are things that break through, no doubt, it happens, but then you see like the chaotic good or whatever the PR bot PR firm was that had worked on some of the more popular indie bands that have emerged that have been around for a little bit, actually, but all of a sudden emerged.
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And you go, okay, well, there's all that's always been.
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There's always been payola, there's always been some way to make take money and build it into a fan base or a the perception of a fan base.
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But right now it just feels like great songs more than ever are what's needed, and more and more people seem to be rejecting the algorithm, rejecting the digital alternate reality, and exactly where they land is unsure, but probably great art will be there to greet them, you would think.
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It does seem like the there was a generation of kids who are like uh, you know, in their late teens between 2010 and 2025 or something like that, who probably had the worst of it because they're it was kind of being built up as this utopian way of living and everything's free and um you know, like like free internet and everything like that.
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But it seems like there's like a healthy amount of skepticism and rejection of that kind of lifestyle by new newer generations.
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And even being a parent, I think that we have to pay attention to stuff like that because we're choosing how to raise our kids in that environment.
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So I think that no matter what, you're right, I think good art will persist.
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It has for centuries.
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In this household, we have a landline.
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There you go.
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I'm glad that they're still available for purchase.
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How how has being a parent impacted being an artist for you?
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I I know it's not new information, but like just in terms of even at this stage when you're releasing a new album, seasoned parents, so to speak.
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What's that like?
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It mells you out a bit.
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Um I don't know.
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I think uh I don't know, at least with this album, I think my experiences is being a parent and drawing on my experiences from my childhood kind of uh I don't know.
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I think it it it kind of colored my songs in a way where they're a bit more sentimental or uh just have a a little bit more depth emotionally than uh than maybe I was previously able to access.
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I don't know.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I think for me the funniest part is I think this is the first record cycle that my at least my son is very cognizant of what's happening.
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Like he's he heard the he heard the takes when we came home from the studio a year ago, and then he heard the the masters, and then he's like, so he knows all the songs, and he's then I handed him a CD the other day when we got them in, and he was because he has a CD player that listens to CDs on, and he was like amaz he was just like couldn't believe that this is like a real thing coming into the world, and you know he knows I'm going on tour and we're talking about all the time and doing stuff like this.
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So I think it's really funny for him to like be on this parallel journey with me and my family, and our like all of our kids have friends with each other and stuff like that too.
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So it's kind of funny to take him along the ride of being like, yes, this is what like every three years looks like while you're doing this for a living, or something like that.
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And I think he's he's getting a real kick out of seeing it come into the world.
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That's amazing.
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Um that kind of one last question that that you mentioned there, the the three years.
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And it's so interesting because DeerTick as an operation has been very much an album cycle band as long as I've been following me, which goes back to I don't know, probably like I don't think I think like 2007 or eight, you know, is when it began.
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Obviously, there was a demo period and shifting and so on and so forth.
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But you know, I just remember it like you were in the album cycle.
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So Born on Flag Day came out.
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I think there was a Brooklyn Vegan scenario where there was like it seemed like there was a big campaign happening, boom, on the radar.
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And you've just been very much that cycle band.
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And that feels like a very healthy relationship to have as a listener to the band.
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And but now you mentioned in in an internet era where people are being told, no, dude, you're gonna release a single every like four weeks or whatever and completely reinvent yourself.
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It's a total contrast.
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What what's your advice to anybody out there in terms of just making stuff and having that sort of more disciplined long view of it versus I need to have this out tonight and then do it again next week?
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I I think you gotta do what works best for you.
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What works best for us is making albums.
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I don't want to make I I don't know.
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I don't I I'd rather write a song and hang on to it for a while until I have enough songs to, you know, they all complement each other and uh I can I I don't know.
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I feel like music like that just makes a bigger statement, I suppose.
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I mean, I don't unless you're writing like I don't know, unless you're Bruce Brigstein writing, you know, streets of Minneapolis or something.
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You know, it's like uh we're just not uh we're just not a band that makes singles, I guess.
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I don't know.
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Well that's the funny part, is I think that we do really I think the only reason we're we've stuck around as long as we have and will continue to is because we do we the older we get to, we take our time with the records and the songs more and more, and we let them gesticulate for really long periods of time and while we're touring and while we're you know doing whatever we do in between record cycles.
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So I think that the impact is felt deeper when we can release them that way.
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And I would say like the the the process of people like putting out, like we can just put out a single, like you're saying, like every four weeks or whatever, just to stay in people's feeds and algorithms constantly.
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That's I understand like the the industry impulse to do that, but I also think it feels like very impulsive behavior in general.
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It almost feels like an addict's behavior where like you need do you know what I mean?
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Um, where it's like you need like the the dopamine hit and your career needs the dopamine hit constantly.
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And I think that that while it could be, you know, it could be a really good path for a lot of people to have some kind of like like you know, mainstream success or whatever, I think that it feels gross to me to not that that there's anything wrong with that approach, but I think that for the way that our band operates, especially as like a four-piece democracy with three different songwriters and four different musical minds, that it's important to us to take our time.
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And like I love the idea of kind of road testing material too.
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Like, I don't like you know, with our new album, we didn't go out and play every single song in front of an audience yet, but you know, we've kind of over the past year or so we've thrown in a couple new songs here and there, and it's like it helps the process for me to kind of to see an audience react in real time rather than read a comment section, you know?
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Like I wanna kind of work out the kinks live and not yeah, I don't know.
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It does it would feel weird to me to just keep recording kind of music like piecemeal and just putting it out uh without you know getting some experience with it first.
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Yeah, or having a bigger picture in mind too.
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I think that this album John having a concept for it for years in the process and then us taking our time to put it together and having band meetings about it with notes and everything like that, uh, I think it just it does make a deeper, more lasting impact.
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And I think that that ultimately matters to us more than constant attention.
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Right.
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Like, wow, you know, I've got 9,212 shares of this new single, but then it just it feels confined to social media in a way as well.
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Like that's the victory.
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The metric is how many people consumed it in a short span of time quickly and recognized it versus how many people went through something traumatic or powerful or had a great day in association with that record or that song?
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Like that's the that's the point.
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And so when you remove the the opportunity for that to get to that lived with level or reduce it and make it more of a, you know, like a pe a moment in a river going by, you know, it just takes away so much from the experience.
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So yeah, and not to mention, I will say this like at this point in my life, I get to go through the back catalogs of like so many great songwriters who've put out like 30 plus records, and I just get to spend the rest of my life finding the eighth or ninth song on the 24th Bruce Springsteen record.
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And it brings me a lot of joy just to be able to like have these like meaty catalogs of these bands and these recording artists that I enjoy.
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And I would I would be so bummed to look back on history and see that Bruce Springsteen put out four songs Jira singles and not have like a a statement of like of intent of where that person was at that point in their lives, which is why I think I relate to like so many you know middle-aged rock and roll singers right now in my life because I'm getting to that age.
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And I feel like I can look to like, you know, the late 80s, early 90s, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, whatever, Paul Brady records, and be like I see myself in these people at this point in time.
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And I think that I don't know, that's I think that's something to provide to people in the future too.
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We're in our steel wheels era.
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Koinematic from their steel wheels era John Macaulay, Ian O'Neill, Deer Tick.
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The new album, Koinomatic, comes out on June 5th via ATR Records, the band Deertik, Providence's Own, John Macaulay, and Ian O'Neill.
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Welcome back to the show.
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Happy to be here.
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Coin nomadic for Rhode Islanders, that's uh definitely a familiar term for anyone who's outside here.
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Why is what does it mean, I guess, in terms of, you know, for anybody who doesn't know Rhode Island mafia lore on a surface level.
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I mean, you know, the the record is kind of a uh well, if yeah, if you don't know what Coinematic is, it was the uh the headquarters of the New England Mafia for a time.
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Um they rented out cigarette vending machines and stuff like that.
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Um and you know, you'd see the boss Raymond Petrocross sitting out there uh out in front.
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People say, Oh, the neighborhood was was safer with Raymond here and all that stuff.
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Which I don't know, I didn't live there at the time.
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I can't speak on that.
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But um yeah, it was the old mob headquarters.
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Um and I guess I I kind of envisioned that for the the cover of the record and the title um long before the songs were written, but I I knew that I wanted the record to kind of be about um you know, I mean, I don't know if you know that Tommy Kane song, Places That Are Gone, you know?
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100%, yeah.
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The record the record to me is kind of about places that are gone and people that are gone, and I don't know.
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It seemed like uh it seemed like the right moment in our career in my life to kind of look back and take stock of everything and make a record about it, make a very Rhode Island-centric record about it.
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Yeah.
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It also seems like a really essential moment right now in just reality to take a look at what's missing and and also look towards shared roots.
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And that's something that Rhode Islanders, whether it's about the fact that maybe At Wills Avenue was viewed as safer during the patriarchal crime family era or not, um, there's a shared lineage there.
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But more broadly speaking, there's a lot of themes of working class, there's a lot of themes of I don't know, the people, if you will.
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It feels like you're speaking of not only to, but about that on these on this crop of songs for the most part.
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Is that sort of what you felt in terms of looking back and reflecting on what might be missing, like actually connecting that to real stories?
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Sure, yeah.
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And I don't I don't know just because something's missing doesn't mean it needs to you know come back.
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But uh but um yeah, suppose I just kind of I I took a lot of experiences growing up here and and kind of made up characters that were kind of I mean they're kind of like amalgamations of of people, family members, you know, neighborhood people are more colorful uh criminal element that used to used to be around there was uh you know, their presence was undeniable.
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Um yeah, no, no.
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I mean I don't know, the f I showed my sisters the record a couple months ago and they both asked me independently uh is Dog Ears about Papa Billy?
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So which you know he was one of the uh inspirations to uh the central character in in Dog Ears for sure.
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So, you know, they were able to pick up on that, and I thought, you know, I don't know, maybe uh maybe I did a good job.
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I guess that's yeah.
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All it's all I would add up to the listener to decide.
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And I guess I guess what I would add talking about working people is I think that all of us kind of grew up around those types of people and were our you know, fathers and uncles and stuff were those types of people.
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So it kind of seems only natural that if you reach back to the, you know, the um the memories of these people from at least for me when I think about the record, I think about the types of people that my parents knew in like the early 90s in New England.
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I don't know.
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It's like a weird, it's like a sense memory for me of like whenever I listen to specifically John's songs on the record, I can I can see and I can smell the very specific cologne of these types of men at the Irish Social Club growing up.
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And those those types of working class people are just kind of integrated into our childhoods, I think.
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So it's really natural to write about that when you're looking back and not about, you know, I don't know, you know, more white-collar stuff, I guess.
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Right.
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There's enough white-collar music out there for everybody at this point.
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Yeah, totally agree on that.
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Um what do you see record is gonna be all about tax loopholes?
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Exactly.
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What are you seeing right now from the standpoint of a band in 2026?
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What does it look like to you in terms of of a path forward, releasing music?
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It's tough.
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Yeah.
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We're lucky to be established, you know.
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I don't know.
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I I don't even know how you get started nowadays.
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It seems so different from you know, even 20 years ago when when when we started, I mean, it was still kind of like you know, make a demo tape and play anywhere and you know, cram the drum set into a car and drive around and do your thing.
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Uh you know, and I guess you do that all uh I mean you you you do that all differently now, I guess.
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So and and I'm not very uh I don't really get anything out of social media.
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Yeah, what I would say too is that it's the way it's changed is I was like watching this is kind of off topic, but I was watching that show Euphoria last night, where it's kind of about TikTok culture and OnlyFans culture and stuff like that, and like the absolute desire to be perceived on the internet and to be famous on the internet, and I was just like looking at the parallels of how the music industry has changed, and I was thinking about how it would it's like it's become such a huge part of like our day-to-day energy to spend time like finding new ways to promote your music, and because that's all we want is for people like people to hear it, and it's not that I think the biggest challenge people have now, especially if you're just starting out, is that there's people who control these algorithms that decide who hears what.
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It's not just like the way they used to be, and not to sound like a crank, but like the way it used to be, was that like if you put in the footwork enough, you would get your music in front of more and more ears.
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And then that's like a really linear and understandable way to like if I work and I'm decent enough, then I can have some measure of success in doing what I love to do.
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And because there's these tech companies that kind of took over most parts of media and music and movies and everything like that, they kind of decide what that actually is.
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And that's a really, I think even for big people who are like managing bands and stuff like that, everybody's like overcoming new obstacles every single year.
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Right.
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Which is not complaining.
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Yeah, I mean, and but then there's also, you know, in order to beat the there are other are things that break through, no doubt, it happens, but then you see like the chaotic good or whatever the PR bot PR firm was that had worked on some of the more popular indie bands that have emerged that have been around for a little bit, actually, but all of a sudden emerged.
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And you go, okay, well, there's all that's always been.
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There's always been payola, there's always been some way to make take money and build it into a fan base or a the perception of a fan base.
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But right now it just feels like great songs more than ever are what's needed, and more and more people seem to be rejecting the algorithm, rejecting the digital alternate reality, and exactly where they land is unsure, but probably great art will be there to greet them, you would think.
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It does seem like the there was a generation of kids who are like uh, you know, in their late teens between 2010 and 2025 or something like that, who probably had the worst of it because they're it was kind of being built up as this utopian way of living and everything's free and um you know, like like free internet and everything like that.
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But it seems like there's like a healthy amount of skepticism and rejection of that kind of lifestyle by new newer generations.
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And even being a parent, I think that we have to pay attention to stuff like that because we're choosing how to raise our kids in that environment.
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So I think that no matter what, you're right, I think good art will persist.
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It has for centuries.
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In this household, we have a landline.
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There you go.
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I'm glad that they're still available for purchase.
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How how has being a parent impacted being an artist for you?
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I I know it's not new information, but like just in terms of even at this stage when you're releasing a new album, seasoned parents, so to speak.
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What's that like?
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It mells you out a bit.
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Um I don't know.
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I think uh I don't know, at least with this album, I think my experiences is being a parent and drawing on my experiences from my childhood kind of uh I don't know.
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I think it it it kind of colored my songs in a way where they're a bit more sentimental or uh just have a a little bit more depth emotionally than uh than maybe I was previously able to access.
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I don't know.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I think for me the funniest part is I think this is the first record cycle that my at least my son is very cognizant of what's happening.
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Like he's he heard the he heard the takes when we came home from the studio a year ago, and then he heard the the masters, and then he's like, so he knows all the songs, and he's then I handed him a CD the other day when we got them in, and he was because he has a CD player that listens to CDs on, and he was like amaz he was just like couldn't believe that this is like a real thing coming into the world, and you know he knows I'm going on tour and we're talking about all the time and doing stuff like this.
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So I think it's really funny for him to like be on this parallel journey with me and my family, and our like all of our kids have friends with each other and stuff like that too.
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So it's kind of funny to take him along the ride of being like, yes, this is what like every three years looks like while you're doing this for a living, or something like that.
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And I think he's he's getting a real kick out of seeing it come into the world.
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That's amazing.
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Um that kind of one last question that that you mentioned there, the the three years.
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And it's so interesting because DeerTick as an operation has been very much an album cycle band as long as I've been following me, which goes back to I don't know, probably like I don't think I think like 2007 or eight, you know, is when it began.
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Obviously, there was a demo period and shifting and so on and so forth.
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But you know, I just remember it like you were in the album cycle.
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So Born on Flag Day came out.
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I think there was a Brooklyn Vegan scenario where there was like it seemed like there was a big campaign happening, boom, on the radar.
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And you've just been very much that cycle band.
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And that feels like a very healthy relationship to have as a listener to the band.
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And but now you mentioned in in an internet era where people are being told, no, dude, you're gonna release a single every like four weeks or whatever and completely reinvent yourself.
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It's a total contrast.
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What what's your advice to anybody out there in terms of just making stuff and having that sort of more disciplined long view of it versus I need to have this out tonight and then do it again next week?
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I I think you gotta do what works best for you.
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What works best for us is making albums.
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I don't want to make I I don't know.
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I don't I I'd rather write a song and hang on to it for a while until I have enough songs to, you know, they all complement each other and uh I can I I don't know.
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I feel like music like that just makes a bigger statement, I suppose.
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I mean, I don't unless you're writing like I don't know, unless you're Bruce Brigstein writing, you know, streets of Minneapolis or something.
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You know, it's like uh we're just not uh we're just not a band that makes singles, I guess.
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I don't know.
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Well that's the funny part, is I think that we do really I think the only reason we're we've stuck around as long as we have and will continue to is because we do we the older we get to, we take our time with the records and the songs more and more, and we let them gesticulate for really long periods of time and while we're touring and while we're you know doing whatever we do in between record cycles.
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So I think that the impact is felt deeper when we can release them that way.
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And I would say like the the the process of people like putting out, like we can just put out a single, like you're saying, like every four weeks or whatever, just to stay in people's feeds and algorithms constantly.
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That's I understand like the the industry impulse to do that, but I also think it feels like very impulsive behavior in general.
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It almost feels like an addict's behavior where like you need do you know what I mean?
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Um, where it's like you need like the the dopamine hit and your career needs the dopamine hit constantly.
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And I think that that while it could be, you know, it could be a really good path for a lot of people to have some kind of like like you know, mainstream success or whatever, I think that it feels gross to me to not that that there's anything wrong with that approach, but I think that for the way that our band operates, especially as like a four-piece democracy with three different songwriters and four different musical minds, that it's important to us to take our time.
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And like I love the idea of kind of road testing material too.
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Like, I don't like you know, with our new album, we didn't go out and play every single song in front of an audience yet, but you know, we've kind of over the past year or so we've thrown in a couple new songs here and there, and it's like it helps the process for me to kind of to see an audience react in real time rather than read a comment section, you know?
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Like I wanna kind of work out the kinks live and not yeah, I don't know.
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It does it would feel weird to me to just keep recording kind of music like piecemeal and just putting it out uh without you know getting some experience with it first.
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Yeah, or having a bigger picture in mind too.
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I think that this album John having a concept for it for years in the process and then us taking our time to put it together and having band meetings about it with notes and everything like that, uh, I think it just it does make a deeper, more lasting impact.
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And I think that that ultimately matters to us more than constant attention.
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Right.
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Like, wow, you know, I've got 9,212 shares of this new single, but then it just it feels confined to social media in a way as well.
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Like that's the victory.
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The metric is how many people consumed it in a short span of time quickly and recognized it versus how many people went through something traumatic or powerful or had a great day in association with that record or that song?
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Like that's the that's the point.
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And so when you remove the the opportunity for that to get to that lived with level or reduce it and make it more of a, you know, like a pe a moment in a river going by, you know, it just takes away so much from the experience.
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So yeah, and not to mention, I will say this like at this point in my life, I get to go through the back catalogs of like so many great songwriters who've put out like 30 plus records, and I just get to spend the rest of my life finding the eighth or ninth song on the 24th Bruce Springsteen record.
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And it brings me a lot of joy just to be able to like have these like meaty catalogs of these bands and these recording artists that I enjoy.
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And I would I would be so bummed to look back on history and see that Bruce Springsteen put out four songs Jira singles and not have like a a statement of like of intent of where that person was at that point in their lives, which is why I think I relate to like so many you know middle-aged rock and roll singers right now in my life because I'm getting to that age.
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And I feel like I can look to like, you know, the late 80s, early 90s, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, whatever, Paul Brady records, and be like I see myself in these people at this point in time.
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And I think that I don't know, that's I think that's something to provide to people in the future too.
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We're in our steel wheels era.
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Koinematic from their steel wheels era John Macaulay, Ian O'Neill, Deer Tick.
